October 21, 2024 • 43 mins
Whittier, CA | Whittier, California is a charming city with an intriguing blend of Quaker roots and a haunting past. Join us as Jacob Caputo, founder of Haunted Whittier Ghost Tours, uncovers the city's dark history through documented hauntings, disturbing true crimes, and the eerie legends of Turnbull Canyon. From its humble beginnings to its connection with the most sinister serial killer you have probably never heard of, Whittier's hidden history will surprise you.
This episode offers just a sample of Jacob's extensive collection of local stories. To experience more, book a tour at https://www.tickettailor.com/events/whittierghostsandlegendstour and follow him on instagram @hauntedwhittiertours.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi friends, just popping on to give you a heads
up.
The following episode wasrecorded remotely so you might
hear a little bit ofinterference when I talk.
Noted, I won't use Bluetoothdevices when recording in the
future.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
Hello everyone, this is Leah.
Today we are covering one of myfavorite places in the Los
(00:23):
Angeles area Whittier,california.
Charming as it may be, it hasits fair share of dark stories.
It was once home to the mostsinister serial killer you've
probably never heard of and hasone of the eeriest canyons you
could ever drive through.
This is Dark City Season 1, losAngeles.
Unfortunately, april could notjoin our recording today, but
(00:55):
fortunately I won't be goingsolo.
We have a special guest, jacobCaputo, who can tell the history
and lore about this area betterthan I ever could.
Jacob, we met earlier thisspring when I started
researching Whittier and Ijoined one of your popular tours
, the Whittier Ghosts andLegends Walking Tour.
So, jacob, before we dive intoall of the stories, I'll hand it
(01:17):
over to you so you canintroduce yourself and how you
got started giving the toursaround Whittier.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I'm excited to be here.
As you said, my name is Jacoband I've been operating Haunted
Whittier Tours since 2020.
And I've grown up in Whittier.
I have very deep roots in thecommunity.
I'm almost fourth generation.
My grandmother came here afterWorld War II but she lived with
(01:46):
her uncle who had been heresince around the 1930s.
So I grew up hearing stories,always thought they were
interesting.
Lots of folklore in Whittier,but lots of great history too.
People enjoy ghost stories andI thought you know what Whittier
needs a legitimate ghost tour.
And it popped in my head duringthe pandemic and I produced it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I'll ask you to go into the brief history of
Whittier itself, its Quakerroots and how it got its name.
But since we are in spookyseason, I wanted to start off by
asking you about the ghosts.
So I remember talking to youpreviously for your tour for you
to share tales of ghosts.
You do a bit of vetting so youmake sure the sources are
(02:31):
legitimate.
Or if you hear multiple storiesthat kind of sound the same,
that gives you a sense thatthere is consistency there of
all the stories that you'vecollected and also those that
seem to have like an essence ofmaybe it's a residual haunting
in a certain area in Whittier.
Of all of those that you'veheard, what would you say you
(02:54):
think is the most hauntedlocation in Whittier and what's
the story behind that?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
you know, I know you're going to think Turnbull
Canyon because as far as popculture, even outside of
Whittier, you say the nameTurnbull Canyon and everybody
says, yeah, that's a place inWhittier.
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I actually didn't think you would.
I have a guess, but let's seewhat you're going to actually
say.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I'm actually going to say Founders Park, that is our
old cemetery.
The cemetery is not there anylonger.
The corpses still are.
That is the place that Iconsistently get stories from,
and what is interesting about itis they come from all sorts of
people.
(03:37):
It is not just spooky peoplethat like to go walk around old
cemeteries looking for hauntings.
A lot of them come from peoplethat didn't know its history,
and that's what I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So what exactly happened with Founders Park,
where so not all the bodies gotmoved, which, by the way,
happens a lot in general.
We've got a few episodes onwhen that's happened in Denver,
in LA and I'm sure, pretty muchevery city.
You've got these cases.
But what happened in FoundersMemorial Park in particular?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's kind of an interesting story because it's
not what you think.
The city wanting to developland wasn't really anything to
do with that.
The undertakers who ran thatcemetery were dead.
That the undertakers who ranthat cemetery were dead.
And I have newspaper articlesfrom the 1950s complaining about
(04:32):
how dirty the cemetery wasgetting.
It was overrun with weeds.
Residents would go in there andclean it up out of respect for
the dead.
But I've even seen articleswhere people were dumping
mattresses and all kinds ofgarbage in the cemetery.
So I believe the city did lookat it as a legitimate problem
and a safety concern.
Took me a long time to actuallyfind somebody who had family
(04:56):
members interred there.
When I finally did, I askedthem.
You know why.
Why did you leave them there,especially when the city did
offer to move the body and theysaid that's where they were
buried, that's we didn't want todisturb their rest.
Fair enough.
(05:17):
What's interesting aboutFounders Park is what is there
today and what it was at thetime are much different, because
they did start burying peoplethere back in the 1800s and a
lot of the land where thosegraves were marked like kind of
with old wooden tombstonesrotted away and some of that
land was sold and then, likethey did, put houses on it.
Yeah, so there you know, thereare people, and I've I've heard
(05:38):
stories from a number of peoplethat have dug up remains in
their backyard by mistake.
It's not even that uncommon.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, that's frightening, Even if there isn't
a haunting or anything likethat, just the idea.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
you don't really know it's beneath your feet If you
want a quick fun story.
I don't know how fun it is,it's funny of it's funny, but
it's.
It's a little dark as well.
But I had a woman who is um inher eighties on my tour who had
a memory of her father.
Uh, she was a descendant.
Her parents were a lot onJarros, the Mexican immigrants
(06:14):
that came over to work theorange ranches in Whittier, and
uh, so they had a nice littlehome, uh, not too far from the
cemetery, and her father wasputting in a new driveway and
she saw him digging around in ahole and then he popped out of
the hole and said, shouted SantaMaria, crossing himself, and
ran into the house.
(06:34):
She looked down in the hole andthere was a broken open box and
there was a skeleton inside ofa child.
So so that was, she lived nearfounders.
So she, obviously this was agrave.
That was.
She lived near Founders.
So she, obviously this was agrave that was not moved.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I asked her.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I said, well, what happened?
She said, well, she's like itwas very little, but the
authorities came over and it wastaken care of, and I doubt the
story even made it into thepapers or anything like that.
It was just something thathappened.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, that's so sad too, especially when you have
those cases.
Yeah, and I think we also takefor granted too just how
frequently child deaths were,even before vaccinations or just
before medical advances were inplace.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And that's a lot of the early burials in Founders
Park are children.
Yeah, we had a diphtheriaoutbreak that break, there was
tuberculosis and obviously lateron the line we have the Spanish
flu.
So there was a lot of miseryobviously in that era, with the
losing of children.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
What is the backstory on the land that is now
Whittier and how did it get itsname?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, it's a fun story and this kind of goes into some
of my why.
I think Whittier is kind of acool town.
Southern California in general.
Is was a lot of farmland, andI'm sure you know that.
Whittier is cool, though,because we've had people there a
really long time.
You know, we had, obviously,the Tongva Native Americans.
They were living along the SanGabriel River for who knows how
(08:04):
long of Americans.
They were living along the SanGabriel River for who knows how
long, but when the Spaniardswere here and there was a
Spanish sergeant that came upfrom San Diego that was awarded
huge tracts of land when I sayhuge, I mean most of this area,
not just Whittier, but Anaheim,brea, fullerton, and he had a
hacienda over by the river andwhen the settlers came here they
(08:28):
were going to call the town LosNietos after him, because
that's what people had called itfor a long time, because he was
one of the original Spanishsettlers.
But because they were Quakersthey wanted to put their own
stamp on it and they came upwith the name Whittier after one
of their own, john GreenleafWhittier.
The man was an abolitionist, hewas a Quaker, obviously, but he
(08:54):
had worked very, very hard,really very much believed that
the African and the Caucasianwere one in the same.
He really wanted people to seeone another as brothers and he
wrote poems about this and useda lot of his money to fund
abolition.
And so I kind of think it'scool that our community is named
(09:16):
after him, because he was agood guy.
When he was told that theywould be naming the town after
him, he was very touched, but hewas an elderly man by that
point and he never did come tovisit.
He wrote us a very nice poemand you can read it in the
Whittier Museum.
It's hanging there.
Most third graders in Whittierhave to memorize it, but man
(09:37):
unfortunately never got to seethe town that was named after
him.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's a great story, especially since we cover so
many dark stories.
One other location I wanted toask you about, or the history
specifically.
We just actually finished anepisode sharing the history of
institutional abuse in thetroubled teen industry, and I
remember talking to you aboutthe Fred C Nell's Correctional
Facility used to be in Whittierno longer longer While it was,
(10:05):
unfortunately it did have a longhistory of abuse, but you told
me it didn't start actually thatway.
It was actually pretty forwardthinking.
I would love it if you couldtell the background and how
things devolved over time.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's an interesting story because obviously the
facility actually saved thecommunity in some ways.
By the 1890s there had been avery bad kind of a financial
crisis in the area due to realestate.
I mean, I know people laugh atyou know there was an issue of
too much real estate inCalifornia and it was devalued.
But it was a problem then andthe city fathers petitioned the
(10:46):
state to build that facility inWhittier, hoping that it would
help the community, and they did.
Initially, from everything I'veread, early on in the 1890s
there were problems of abuseeven early on and that's why
they brought in Fred C Nels, whothe facility was named after
later on, and he had this ideathat these children, these boys,
(11:08):
needed family figures and hebuilt these beautiful English
cottages and they had like afather and mother figure kind of
watching over the boys.
They had workshops where theycould learn trades.
It was very forward thinkingand the idea of how to turn
around these traumatized boysthat had obviously all kinds of
(11:32):
different things that hadhappened to them and these were
the reasons they were in thatfacility and many of them did go
on to live fairly successfullives.
Unfortunately, as will happenwith oftentimes, especially with
government facilities, whenFred C Nellis died, there were
(11:53):
people that were brought in thattried to continue making what
he'd done work.
But when he wasn't there anylonger, they just didn't have
the vision and it quicklydevolved into a mess and they
got rid of a lot of that conceptof the family concept to help
these boys, and it just became aprison.
It got overcrowded.
There were guards thatallegations of not just beating,
(12:19):
but things much worse than thatand you can use your
imagination I don't know howgraphic you want to get, but
about as bad as it can be, therewere.
In fact, there were somemurders as well.
There's one and we talk aboutit on one of my tours.
There's one allegation ofmurder.
The boy was hanged but to thisday it's unsolved whether he
(12:41):
actually did it himself or oneof the guards did it.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You might've covered this in the tour.
You might not have, I can'tremember, but I did see some
research that said that facilityis haunted.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was very much haunted.
For many, many years.
I talked to people that workedthere, even back in the sixties,
that said, oh yeah, doors openand close by themselves,
screaming from empties.
There were parts of the prisonthat were dilapidated, that were
like sealed off, and they wouldhear screaming, crying out of
the chapel.
That was the one that I seem tohear most frequently the
sobbing out of one of thechapels, which, by the way,
(13:16):
still stands.
It's being used as a communitycenter.
I had a call from somebody Idon't have any way of verifying
it, but it's a good story.
They worked on the set of Sonsof Anarchy, which was filmed
over there, or some of thisInteresting yeah, so this was
back when the prison was allclosed.
They were just using it as afilm set.
But you know, wandering aroundin the middle of the night while
(13:42):
they were shooting, and heardcrying coming out of one of the
buildings, so vivid that theybelieve somebody was stuck
inside.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It was all boarded up and it was empty and vacant, as
can be.
That is frightening.
I, I, I would want to shut downthe production.
I'd say that's not my contract,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But when you think about what happened there, I
mean it was a sad place.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I know I always wonder why certain places have
energy that you could call maybeenergy that stays, or why
they're so haunted while othersare not.
But for that one that'sunderstandable, that it seems
like there's so many places likethat where there's just a lot
of trauma, like old hospitals orinstitutions like that where
the spirit would have a hardtime moving on and I'm sure
(14:23):
you're familiar with the.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, this is one of the.
There was a movie about this.
I'm sure you're familiar withthe old the chicken coop murders
, right that's right, yeah,right and you know, the little
boy was incarcerated in FrancineEllis.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Can you just give a quick?
So I know that story, but canyou just give a quick rundown on
that?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Basically the story is I guess you would call him a
psychopath, but he rounded upchildren and hid them in a
chicken coop and murdered themover time and he had a cousin I
believe it was a cousin thathelped him.
I mean just horrible and thereason that I mean he was hanged
when he was.
Eventually he was caught and hewas hanged for his crimes the
(15:01):
little boy was not and he wasincarcerated in Fred Sinales.
Now, what's interesting aboutthat was, whatever they did with
him and Fred Sinales must'veworked the judge was not overly
harsh on him and felt that hereally didn't have any say in it
, because, I mean, this guyabused him so horribly.
He would eventually return hometo Canada, which was where he
(15:25):
was from.
He served honorably in WorldWar II, went on to marry, had a
family, never spoke about whathad happened to him until much
later in life.
Very, very interesting storyand obviously we have a
connection with you to it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I saw the movie Changeling with Angelina Jolie
and it was loosely based off ofone of the boys that was
murdered in the chicken coopmurder and at that time the
police department, which we'llcover in another episode very
corrupt, very corrupt.
They brought home another kidto her because her kid had gone
missing while she was workingduring the day and she would
(16:01):
leave her child alone.
They brought an entirelydifferent kid home to her and
said here's your son.
And it was not her son and theygaslit her for it.
But they just wanted to looklike they had solved the case
and it really was something muchmore horrible and sordid
underneath all of it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And my understanding is we still don't have closure
on everything.
There are missing boys from thearea who they don't really know
whether they're connected to itor not.
My guess is that story is we'renever going to have the
complete picture.
Yeah, actually, I mean, the guywas just an absolute psychopath
(16:39):
.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, on the note of psychopath, while we're going
really dark, let's talk aboutGeorge Hassel.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh, the old George.
Yeah, we like George.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
This was a story you told on the tour, which I
thought was crazy, because Iknow a lot about true crime
cases and I know a lotespecially in doing this season
for Dark City, but I'd neverheard of George Hassel.
When you do, at least in thepodcast world, you do some
research on him.
There's almost nothing on him,yet this is probably one of the
most horrific cases I've everheard, If his name is even
(17:14):
George Hassel.
But I'll let you share therundown on that.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
What's interesting about him is how he has
basically disappeared.
I never heard the story growingup.
As far as I know, the WhittierMuseum and the curator was
unaware of the story.
I mean, like I said, my familyhas been here for a long time.
As far as I know, mygrandmother was never aware of
it.
I think the community was sohorrified by what had happened
(17:44):
and what he did that everybodydecided let's not talk about
this, let's just let it go away.
And it did.
The only reason it wasuncovered is because a woman in
Texas was doing research on menwho murdered their families and
she uncovered some newspaperclippings in Texas of what he
had done to his family there andfound reference to Whittier.
And then that's the recordstarted coming out, basically
(18:06):
the long and short of it.
We know that he was from Texas.
We know he left Texas underkind of a cloud of suspicion
that his brother was found deadon the family ranch.
He told everybody that a mulehad kicked him but the coroner
wasn't sure, couldn't proveanything and he got out of Dodge
.
He left.
(18:28):
We know that he traversed thecountry.
We believe he was in the armyfor a while and deserted.
We know that he was on a shipfor a while, working as a
merchant marine.
At some point he shows up inWhittier and marries a widow who
had three small children,including an infant, and they
(18:48):
lived together for a while.
He worked as a roughneck up inthe hills on the oil rigs the
hills on the oil rigs and thelong and short of it.
The newspaper says that shewanted him to join the army when
World War I broke out and hedidn't.
He flew into a rage and murderedher and then the children and
(19:10):
buried them Apparently.
He spent days butchering thecorpses and I mean, I don't know
exactly how he did it, but I doknow that when they dug up the
remains in 1925, that what theyfound were fragments.
So that tells me he probablyused his law.
Neighbors, though.
(19:37):
He went to the closest neighborand told them not to look for
his wife because he'd taken herto the train station and she was
going to be in San Franciscovisiting a sister, I believe.
And obviously that was not thecase.
But you know, good old innocentWhittier, you know we're a
religious community and peopleprobably just believed him, and
then the house was vacant andnobody knew what had happened.
The man go ahead.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh no, so did he just say that she took the kids with
them too?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, kids are gone.
They went with mom, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, and it's not like you have social media back
then, when you can trace certainthings, and why would you not
believe that would be the case?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I think the innocence of the era was people took
others at their word.
And you know I'm sure my guessis when he didn't return in a
reasonable amount of time,people probably did poke around
the house and what happened tothem?
I'm sure it was eventually sold.
You know he obviously couldhave enough job cleaning up,
that nobody suspected.
And you know he obviously couldhave enough job cleaning up
that nobody suspected.
(20:36):
And you know why would you?
Why would you suspect thatsomebody had butchered their
family?
It's such an awful way.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I also always wonder too, or maybe you know this, but
did he give people creepy vibes?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Those cases where people didn't suspect or never
got to read that.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Those are the scary, really scary ones.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
So I show his picture on my tour and I never say to
read that those are the scary,really scary ones.
So I show his picture on mytour and I never say a whole lot
.
I just say you want to meetGeorge?
Here he is.
And people that look at hisphoto and this is probably
because I've just told them thisawful story but they tell me
that he has shark eyes.
I hear that again and again.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I remember seeing that picture, yeah eyes of a
predator.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But this is what I will tell you that the history
says.
When he was incarcerated inTexas for killing his family
there because he left California, obviously, and went back to
Texas and killed againApparently the newspaper article
said he was very charming andwhile he was in jail women would
(21:38):
visit him and converse with him.
Children would as well.
I guess people didn't haveanything to do, so let's go
visit the maniac in prison, butapparently he was very, very
charming and women found himattractive.
So I think he was that typethat you know, the Ted Bundy
type.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I saw the picture, though, and of course I'm
tainted by the fact that I knowthe backstory, and the same
would be said about what wecovered.
Jack Parsons, the rocketscientist, who was also crazy
into the occult too, but like Ican't look at them the same, but
I do remember, with GeorgeHassel in particular.
He, he does look, he looks, helooks terrifying, even if you
(22:18):
hadn't told me the story.
There's something about theeyes.
Maybe it was the way the lightcaught, or just Not just the
eyes, though.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
There's a smile that almost reminds me of the Joker.
I mean, it's like there'ssomething very dark behind that
grin.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, we'll post a picture on our social media so
you can.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
oh, yeah, everyone can see this um, but you know,
um, it's interesting that he wasable to charm so many people.
And I, I killed another familyin texas, in the family that he
killed in texas, that he hunteddown each child, slitting their
throat with a, with a straight,straight razor, which you know.
(22:58):
Obviously I don't want to gettoo graphic, but that would have
been a um, you have, you haveto be a pretty cold person to
kill somebody that way.
That's not an easy way to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And I, you know I and I probably I don't know if I
mentioned it on the tour thatyou were on.
I don't always say this, but Ihad an LAPD detective that
pulled me aside after the tourwas over and he said that man's
a lot worse than you, you'veeven told us.
And I just said I can just tellyou what are in the old
newspaper articles.
And he said no, he's like you,don't?
You don't murder your familyunless you've been practicing.
(23:31):
And he believed that the guyhad probably killed many, many
more that we don't know about.
And you know I mean I'm justthrowing that out there, I have
no proof of it, it's just, it'sinteresting.
I was going to mention that.
You know, for anybody that'slistening to this, you know
obviously George got what wascoming to him in the end.
You know I mentioned on thetour.
You know he got the electricchair.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And I don't know how I feel about the death penalty,
but I feel like if there was acase, you would use that I'm
okay with this one.
Yeah, he does not belong on thisearth.
Let's talk about TurnbullCanyon.
So we could probably do anentire episode just on Turnbull
Canyon.
Turnbull for those who aren'tfamiliar with it has hiking
(24:15):
trails that give you a panoramicview of the surrounding cities.
You can see all the way todowntown on a clear day.
Some don't like to hike itbecause of all of the
backstories of the area.
I haven't personally hiked ityet.
I actually really want to.
It's just every time I've beenit's a fun hike it's not shaded
right, so I'm going to have towait till the weather cools down
(24:38):
.
It looks great.
I just always am by myself.
When I've been in the area Iwould have not been paying
attention if I and I think justgenerally I've always worn never
hike by yourself, guys.
It's just not a good idea.
But I have driven TurnbullCanyon Road which goes through
the canyon from Whittier toHacienda Heights on the other
sides.
But once you get into thecanyon and you drive along the
(25:00):
switchbacks, it's like you getthis really kind of eerie vibe
because you get pretty deep intothe hills where you can't see
above them, you can't see thesurrounding cities and it almost
feels like you're in the middleof nowhere.
But you're very much in themiddle of a sprawling county,
but you really feel like it'sjust you and I think it's
isolated, as it's always been inisolated part of Whittier and
(25:24):
LA County.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think that contributes to the legends.
But there are some things andthere are people over the years
that have tried to come out andsay that you know, it's, it's
really not.
A lot of these stories andmyths are just myths, but not
all of them are.
We know that an airplanecrashed there back in the 1950s
(25:47):
and killed and I've seen thephotos.
It was bad.
I mean, it was really bad.
But we can even go back further.
One of the men actually two menthat have owned the land were
killed.
Actually one self-inflicted,wayne Workman, killed himself.
John Trumbull was beaten todeath.
I wasn't in the canyon, but Ido think that there is.
(26:10):
You know, there's been somemurders back in there as well.
Bad car accidents, somehorrible car accidents in fact.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I think all of this contributes to that spooky
vibe that you get when you'reeither on the hiking trails or
even driving the road.
Can you share one of the?
Because you told severaldifferent stories on the tour,
but gosh, all of the ghoststories are pretty frightening,
so I'll let you pick which oneyou think.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Well, I'm going to tell you one, and I'm not going
to tell you the name of theperson because there are family
members that are still around.
But this is this is one where,and if you want to do your
research on this murder, this isinformation that's very
available, should you choose tofind it.
But I have, for many years,have been told that people have
(27:06):
seen a man in late 1970s eraclothing walking the road and he
looks a little disheveled.
And he looks a littledisheveled and when they look in
the rearview mirror when theypass him, he's gone, he's just
vanished.
(27:26):
And I never had a story to gowith, like, who is this guy?
I mean, you know, most peoplealways talk about old ghosts,
like Victorian era or whatever,but this is a modern ghost.
I had a guy on my tour whopulled me aside at the end and
told me about his friend andbasically this is the story.
There was a group of Whittierhigh school friends.
(27:49):
They went into Turnbull Canyon.
They were doing drugs and anargument took place and they
stabbed one of the boys.
They all got together andstabbed him, but they didn't
kill him and they left a couplehours later they were wondering
to one another, maybe he's stillalive crawled onto the road he
(28:12):
was still very much alive.
They found him and theyfinished the job.
And the person that told me thisstory was in fact he was one of
this guy's friends.
I mean, he wasn't the one thatdid it, he was just one of his
high school buddies.
And so suddenly it's like okay,I think now we have the origin
(28:33):
of this individual that walks onthe road and disappears.
And I looked up the newspaperarticles and it was definitely a
story of the time and it wassomething well-known.
But you know awfully tragicstory and you know, if you do
believe in the paranormal, itmakes sense why he's still
wandering all these years later.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, oh, that is an awful story, especially in those
cases where it's like peoplewho are so young and it's a
group that commits something sohorrific against someone that If
we want to switch gears tosomething a little more
lighthearted.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Have you ever heard of the Trimble Canyon Beast?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Did you share that one?
I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I never share it because.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
No, this sounds familiar, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
If you look around you might find it online, but
there's people that believe thatthere is some sort of a large
wolf-like beast that roams thehills and people have it's
chased cars.
Maybe it's a big coyote, Idon't know, but it's the
Sasquatch Possibly.
But yeah, people have seen itover the.
(29:39):
The closest I've ever got tointerviewing somebody that saw
it was that.
I mean, I've just I've heardthe story that you know track,
it's always a friend of a friendof a friend you know how that
is that saw it.
I actually found somebody thatthis is the closest I can come.
They were hiking, actually atnight, on one of the trails that
is owned by the cemetery rosehills.
(29:59):
So this wasn't a place theyshould have been and they um,
they saw some, some red eyes inthe bushes and they heard some
growling and, uh, it seemed verylarge.
Whatever it was was very largeand they got out of the canyon
very quick, but they said theycould hear it following them so
there could be a very.
(30:19):
When people talk about thebeast, I remind them that there
are mountain lions back therewith turnbull canyon.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Even with all like the true stories or you know
haunting stories that you can'tever really validate, like
you're, in enough times, it'sprobably true, there's also a
few that are just not accurate.
So one is the devil's gate.
Devil's gate, yeah.
So there's a lot of there's alot of sources that say that
(30:46):
they have their own myth.
But you've done some research.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Tell us about that Well, devil's gate is.
It's funny because my uncletalked about devil's gate, so it
was a thing even back in likethe sixties.
And you know I asked him aboutit and the story that he told me
and this is the one that wasgoing around Lacerna high school
back in probably the latesixties or seventies that there
had been a mass, there'd been anasylum back there, a legitimate
(31:14):
, insane asylum, and they wereconducting, as oftentimes is the
case, illegal experimentation.
And so there were stories aboutpeople would see these
ambulances going back into thecanyon and they always had
people in the back but yetnobody ever came out of the
asylum.
(31:34):
And sometime in the 1930s theinmates revolted and burned the
place down but it was nevercompletely burned down, it just
part of it was and they killedthe nursing staff and the
doctors and whatnot and it satthere up on that hill for many,
many years.
Is this, you know, testament ofthe horrible things that had
(31:54):
happened there?
And sometime in the 50s or 60syou hear different things from
different people that there wasa group of, I don't know, urban
explorers Maybe they were on adate with some girls and they
decided to explore the oldasylum and they worked their way
into the what had been theelectric shock therapy room and
(32:17):
the equipment was still thereall these years later.
And one of the boys put it onto scare the girls and it
snapped into life and hecouldn't take it off and his
eyeballs ruptured and he waskilled in this horrible fashion.
And the community wereobviously very just disgusted by
what had happened.
So they destroyed the asylumbut they left the gate.
(32:38):
The gate is still there, butnothing was left but the
foundation.
And I will tell you, Iabsolutely believed the story
growing up.
We would drive by Devil's Gateand we would point to it and
that was where it happened.
So it's the wonderful urbanmyth and I love it.
Unfortunately, there's nohistorical evidence that there
(33:00):
was ever an asylum up there.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That's what they want you to think.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I know?
Can you imagine they wouldnever lie to us, right?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
No, I'm totally kidding.
I believe you.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And the thing is, if there had been such a structure
up there, you would find somereferences to it.
However, this is interestingbecause we have a local woman
who was very, very involved inWhittier history.
She's not an actual historian,but she's a collector.
She really dives into a lot ofthese old Whittier stories.
She found a reference that thefamily that owned Rose Hills at
(33:35):
one point had what they wouldhave called a sanitarium up in
that area.
It was a place, you know,that's what they call them back
then.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And it it was.
I guess it was specifically forwomen, where women could get
away.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's a little different than what you
described before.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh, absolutely, but it would.
It was a place where they wouldbe able to relax.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Right why a lot of people came to Los Angeles too,
to the weather and to recover,and yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
But they called it a sanitarium and in fact it did
burn down.
But a lot of buildings burneddown in the era because they
didn't have the safetyprecautions that we have today,
and if you know where to look,you can find the remains of some
of the foundation is stillaround up in the hills.
Remains of some of thefoundation is still around up in
the hills, if you you know whattrail to find.
Um, I've seen pictures of them.
Um, but I do wonder if, um,that has kind of that's, maybe
(34:27):
that did come into pop culture alittle bit and maybe contribute
to the story.
So I don't know for sure, butit could be that that's the
origin yeah, there's, there's alot of stories like that.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Like we tell that one on Griffith Park.
I had told you about wherethere's supposed to be a haunted
picnic table, but when you goand research the story it's
based off of an entirely fakenew site.
Yeah, like they really wantedthat to look like light times,
but it's LA turns is like theactual site when you look at it,
but yet you know it's citedover and over again.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You know, over the years I've had a lot of people
ask me to talk about the asylum,and I'm always happy to do so.
But I always open it up.
I'm like, okay, we're gettinginto myth territory.
Do you want to know the truthor do you just want to enjoy the
story for what it is?
Because it is, I even see itand I know this may sound funny,
but I see it as an importantpart of the heritage of our area
(35:23):
, even though there's nothing toit.
But it is a story Many of usgrew up with and right, and
that's why we, some of us, woulddrive into the Canyon looking
for the spirits of these slain,insane people that were sadly
wandering the Canyon foreternity.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I don't know if you want to find them, if they were
there.
No, no, you do not you do not.
There is a picture that hasbeen circulated on social media
in various different places ofsupposed devil worshippers.
It's pretty disturbing.
It's a bunch of people wearingblack hoods and robes Probably
not legitimate.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I don't believe it's a real picture.
I have talked to policeofficers that were here back in
that seventies and eighties andtold me that yes, there were
people that went up there to dosatanic type worshiping and
whatnot.
I doubt they did anything awfulawful other than you know.
Just I don't know praying tothe devil or whatever, but you
(36:22):
know, as far as I mean, and thatis part of the myth is that you
know, children were murdered upthere by Satanists and whatnot.
I have never found any evidencethat there's any truth to any of
that.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
The last location I wanted to ask you about that has
a lot of historicalsignificance was well, it used
to be the CW Leffingwell Ranch.
It used to be an agriculturaloperation, obviously not in
existence anymore.
From what I understand, homeshave been built over it when?
(36:52):
Is it located or where was it?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Where is it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
today in Whittier.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
It was very large.
I mean it was a very largeranch.
If you're familiar with any ofyour listeners know Whittier,
they'll know the Whitwood Mallthat was part of Charles
Wesley's Leffingwell Ranch.
Also the Whitwood Ranch Library, the apartments that are across
the street from that.
I mean we have a street calledLeffingwell.
Nobody knows who it's namedafter anymore, but it did exist.
(37:21):
The ranch did exist there fromthe 1800s up to 1951, if you can
believe it.
That was when they finallythere was a housing crisis in
the area at the time and theranches were being shut down and
turned into communities andturned into communities and
there was a lot of scandalassociated with it.
(37:45):
They had Japanese and Mexicansthat were both brought over to
the ranch and the reason I bringup that it's important that
there were two races, becausethey were segregated.
The ranch actually builthousing, and when I say housing,
it probably wasn't the nicestthing.
They were bunk houses forworkers, but they built separate
ones for Mexicans and separateones for the Japanese.
(38:05):
It was probably done just dueto cultural and language
differences.
I think that was kind of athing back then.
But yes, they absolutely didbring those people over.
The ranch mostly producedlemons and walnuts and that's
what they were picking.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
You had shared a story on the tour about a
residual haunting that tracesback to one of the Japanese
immigrants, possibly atLeftingwell Ranch.
It's one of the scariest ghoststories I've ever heard.
But since we are low on timeand I want you all to take the
tour, I'm just going to use thatto tease your tour, if you guys
want to hear that it is.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
it is a terrifying story.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Really yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Which, by the way, obviously we won't go too much
into it, but that was one of theones that was shared with me by
the Whittier Museum and I kindof held onto it for a little
while because it was kind of aone-off but we talked about that
.
But I've heard some otherpeople that have seen her um,
(39:06):
including somebody who sold her.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So I'm never going near that area again.
I do not like that yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, so, uh, maybe it's a different spirit, I don't
know, but uh, uh, yeah, so, um,it's, it's a great story and I
and I will tell you why I likeit without telling the story.
I like it because it is areminder that not only did
Leffingwell Ranch exist, butthose Japanese people did work
on the ranch, and I grew up inthis area.
I never knew that and bytelling this story, we do
(39:35):
remember that and you can decidewhether that's tragic history
or not, but at least we'retalking about it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
One thing I do want to ask you too is so our podcast
is dedicated to all the darkand sordid tales, but obviously,
you know, we're hoping to piquepeople's interest in just
learning about all of thehistory, not just the bad stuff.
But like for those who areinterested in visiting Whittier,
I mean, I'll have you plug yourdoor too in a second here.
(40:02):
But what are some of the goodthings?
How it's evolved today, stuffthat people should check out.
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Well, I hope people do come Uptown.
Whittier is a wonderful oldpart of Southern California.
We have Victorian homes, wehave craftsman homes.
It's a charming place to justdrive around and look at some of
the old homes.
In the historical districtGreenleaf itself.
We have Nixon Plaza where thepresident of the United States
(40:28):
used to work, and it's abeautiful building, very classic
.
We have a lot of 1920sarchitecture on Greenleaf that
still survives all these yearslater and you know, come and
check it out, have dinner.
You know, go to some of therestaurants here.
They're mostly family owned or,and you know, you help them out
a lot if you go to thoserestaurants and those cafes.
(40:50):
So please come and visit.
Just kind of a funny story whenI started this ghost tour, a
friend of mine from Anaheim cameout to go on it and when it was
over he's like how have I livedin Southern California my
entire life and never realizedwhat a gem this community is?
I've never been here and seenthese things.
So on the tour you get to seesome of it.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, definitely, and I told you before I love going
there because it's not too farfrom where I live and just
working at one of the coffeeshops or another restaurants
there, I've done that quite abit.
Greenleaf is a really cutelittle street too Well with that
.
So for those I hope we'll takethe tour and not live in your
(41:33):
city or surrounding city and notknow all of this great history.
How can people find you?
And if you could just brieflysay you know, cause you have
more than one tour.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So, um, you know, please find us on Instagram or
on Facebook.
If you just look at look uphaunted Whittier tours, um,
it'll come right up.
All the ticket information Ifyou'd like to come on a tour is
there.
We do two different tours.
Right now we're doing oneinside the Whittier Museum.
That is a flashlight tour,which is very scary.
It's an old building with somegreat history.
(42:05):
Come and check it out.
It's a lot of fun.
We go through the flashlightsand we always have weird stuff
happen.
Almost every tour I've donewe've had weird things happen.
The other tour is my historicdistrict tour and we're doing
those on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, the month of October, and we
still have a few ticketsavailable, so hopefully some of
your listeners can come andcheck it out.
(42:27):
If they miss it, we'll be backin December.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
And we'll link all that in the show notes as well,
so you can easily find it and Ihighly recommend it.
Thank you.
Hi friends, just popping on to give you a heads
up.
The following episode wasrecorded remotely so you might
hear a little bit ofinterference when I talk.
Noted, I won't use Bluetoothdevices when recording in the
future.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
Hello everyone, this is Leah.
Today we are covering one of myfavorite places in the Los
(00:23):
Angeles area Whittier,california.
Charming as it may be, it hasits fair share of dark stories.
It was once home to the mostsinister serial killer you've
probably never heard of and hasone of the eeriest canyons you
could ever drive through.
This is Dark City Season 1, losAngeles.
Unfortunately, april could notjoin our recording today, but
(00:55):
fortunately I won't be goingsolo.
We have a special guest, jacobCaputo, who can tell the history
and lore about this area betterthan I ever could.
Jacob, we met earlier thisspring when I started
researching Whittier and Ijoined one of your popular tours
, the Whittier Ghosts andLegends Walking Tour.
So, jacob, before we dive intoall of the stories, I'll hand it
(01:17):
over to you so you canintroduce yourself and how you
got started giving the toursaround Whittier.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I'm excited to be here.
As you said, my name is Jacoband I've been operating Haunted
Whittier Tours since 2020.
And I've grown up in Whittier.
I have very deep roots in thecommunity.
I'm almost fourth generation.
My grandmother came here afterWorld War II but she lived with
(01:46):
her uncle who had been heresince around the 1930s.
So I grew up hearing stories,always thought they were
interesting.
Lots of folklore in Whittier,but lots of great history too.
People enjoy ghost stories andI thought you know what Whittier
needs a legitimate ghost tour.
And it popped in my head duringthe pandemic and I produced it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I'll ask you to go into the brief history of
Whittier itself, its Quakerroots and how it got its name.
But since we are in spookyseason, I wanted to start off by
asking you about the ghosts.
So I remember talking to youpreviously for your tour for you
to share tales of ghosts.
You do a bit of vetting so youmake sure the sources are
(02:31):
legitimate.
Or if you hear multiple storiesthat kind of sound the same,
that gives you a sense thatthere is consistency there of
all the stories that you'vecollected and also those that
seem to have like an essence ofmaybe it's a residual haunting
in a certain area in Whittier.
Of all of those that you'veheard, what would you say you
(02:54):
think is the most hauntedlocation in Whittier and what's
the story behind that?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
you know, I know you're going to think Turnbull
Canyon because as far as popculture, even outside of
Whittier, you say the nameTurnbull Canyon and everybody
says, yeah, that's a place inWhittier.
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I actually didn't think you would.
I have a guess, but let's seewhat you're going to actually
say.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I'm actually going to say Founders Park, that is our
old cemetery.
The cemetery is not there anylonger.
The corpses still are.
That is the place that Iconsistently get stories from,
and what is interesting about itis they come from all sorts of
people.
(03:37):
It is not just spooky peoplethat like to go walk around old
cemeteries looking for hauntings.
A lot of them come from peoplethat didn't know its history,
and that's what I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So what exactly happened with Founders Park,
where so not all the bodies gotmoved, which, by the way,
happens a lot in general.
We've got a few episodes onwhen that's happened in Denver,
in LA and I'm sure, pretty muchevery city.
You've got these cases.
But what happened in FoundersMemorial Park in particular?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's kind of an interesting story because it's
not what you think.
The city wanting to developland wasn't really anything to
do with that.
The undertakers who ran thatcemetery were dead.
That the undertakers who ranthat cemetery were dead.
And I have newspaper articlesfrom the 1950s complaining about
(04:32):
how dirty the cemetery wasgetting.
It was overrun with weeds.
Residents would go in there andclean it up out of respect for
the dead.
But I've even seen articleswhere people were dumping
mattresses and all kinds ofgarbage in the cemetery.
So I believe the city did lookat it as a legitimate problem
and a safety concern.
Took me a long time to actuallyfind somebody who had family
(04:56):
members interred there.
When I finally did, I askedthem.
You know why.
Why did you leave them there,especially when the city did
offer to move the body and theysaid that's where they were
buried, that's we didn't want todisturb their rest.
Fair enough.
(05:17):
What's interesting aboutFounders Park is what is there
today and what it was at thetime are much different, because
they did start burying peoplethere back in the 1800s and a
lot of the land where thosegraves were marked like kind of
with old wooden tombstonesrotted away and some of that
land was sold and then, likethey did, put houses on it.
Yeah, so there you know, thereare people, and I've I've heard
(05:38):
stories from a number of peoplethat have dug up remains in
their backyard by mistake.
It's not even that uncommon.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, that's frightening, Even if there isn't
a haunting or anything likethat, just the idea.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
you don't really know it's beneath your feet If you
want a quick fun story.
I don't know how fun it is,it's funny of it's funny, but
it's.
It's a little dark as well.
But I had a woman who is um inher eighties on my tour who had
a memory of her father.
Uh, she was a descendant.
Her parents were a lot onJarros, the Mexican immigrants
(06:14):
that came over to work theorange ranches in Whittier, and
uh, so they had a nice littlehome, uh, not too far from the
cemetery, and her father wasputting in a new driveway and
she saw him digging around in ahole and then he popped out of
the hole and said, shouted SantaMaria, crossing himself, and
ran into the house.
(06:34):
She looked down in the hole andthere was a broken open box and
there was a skeleton inside ofa child.
So so that was, she lived nearfounders.
So she, obviously this was agrave.
That was.
She lived near Founders.
So she, obviously this was agrave that was not moved.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I asked her.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I said, well, what happened?
She said, well, she's like itwas very little, but the
authorities came over and it wastaken care of, and I doubt the
story even made it into thepapers or anything like that.
It was just something thathappened.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, that's so sad too, especially when you have
those cases.
Yeah, and I think we also takefor granted too just how
frequently child deaths were,even before vaccinations or just
before medical advances were inplace.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And that's a lot of the early burials in Founders
Park are children.
Yeah, we had a diphtheriaoutbreak that break, there was
tuberculosis and obviously lateron the line we have the Spanish
flu.
So there was a lot of miseryobviously in that era, with the
losing of children.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
What is the backstory on the land that is now
Whittier and how did it get itsname?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, it's a fun story and this kind of goes into some
of my why.
I think Whittier is kind of acool town.
Southern California in general.
Is was a lot of farmland, andI'm sure you know that.
Whittier is cool, though,because we've had people there a
really long time.
You know, we had, obviously,the Tongva Native Americans.
They were living along the SanGabriel River for who knows how
(08:04):
long of Americans.
They were living along the SanGabriel River for who knows how
long, but when the Spaniardswere here and there was a
Spanish sergeant that came upfrom San Diego that was awarded
huge tracts of land when I sayhuge, I mean most of this area,
not just Whittier, but Anaheim,brea, fullerton, and he had a
hacienda over by the river andwhen the settlers came here they
(08:28):
were going to call the town LosNietos after him, because
that's what people had called itfor a long time, because he was
one of the original Spanishsettlers.
But because they were Quakersthey wanted to put their own
stamp on it and they came upwith the name Whittier after one
of their own, john GreenleafWhittier.
The man was an abolitionist, hewas a Quaker, obviously, but he
(08:54):
had worked very, very hard,really very much believed that
the African and the Caucasianwere one in the same.
He really wanted people to seeone another as brothers and he
wrote poems about this and useda lot of his money to fund
abolition.
And so I kind of think it'scool that our community is named
(09:16):
after him, because he was agood guy.
When he was told that theywould be naming the town after
him, he was very touched, but hewas an elderly man by that
point and he never did come tovisit.
He wrote us a very nice poemand you can read it in the
Whittier Museum.
It's hanging there.
Most third graders in Whittierhave to memorize it, but man
(09:37):
unfortunately never got to seethe town that was named after
him.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's a great story, especially since we cover so
many dark stories.
One other location I wanted toask you about, or the history
specifically.
We just actually finished anepisode sharing the history of
institutional abuse in thetroubled teen industry, and I
remember talking to you aboutthe Fred C Nell's Correctional
Facility used to be in Whittierno longer longer While it was,
(10:05):
unfortunately it did have a longhistory of abuse, but you told
me it didn't start actually thatway.
It was actually pretty forwardthinking.
I would love it if you couldtell the background and how
things devolved over time.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's an interesting story because obviously the
facility actually saved thecommunity in some ways.
By the 1890s there had been avery bad kind of a financial
crisis in the area due to realestate.
I mean, I know people laugh atyou know there was an issue of
too much real estate inCalifornia and it was devalued.
But it was a problem then andthe city fathers petitioned the
(10:46):
state to build that facility inWhittier, hoping that it would
help the community, and they did.
Initially, from everything I'veread, early on in the 1890s
there were problems of abuseeven early on and that's why
they brought in Fred C Nels, whothe facility was named after
later on, and he had this ideathat these children, these boys,
(11:08):
needed family figures and hebuilt these beautiful English
cottages and they had like afather and mother figure kind of
watching over the boys.
They had workshops where theycould learn trades.
It was very forward thinkingand the idea of how to turn
around these traumatized boysthat had obviously all kinds of
(11:32):
different things that hadhappened to them and these were
the reasons they were in thatfacility and many of them did go
on to live fairly successfullives.
Unfortunately, as will happenwith oftentimes, especially with
government facilities, whenFred C Nellis died, there were
(11:53):
people that were brought in thattried to continue making what
he'd done work.
But when he wasn't there anylonger, they just didn't have
the vision and it quicklydevolved into a mess and they
got rid of a lot of that conceptof the family concept to help
these boys, and it just became aprison.
It got overcrowded.
There were guards thatallegations of not just beating,
(12:19):
but things much worse than thatand you can use your
imagination I don't know howgraphic you want to get, but
about as bad as it can be, therewere.
In fact, there were somemurders as well.
There's one and we talk aboutit on one of my tours.
There's one allegation ofmurder.
The boy was hanged but to thisday it's unsolved whether he
(12:41):
actually did it himself or oneof the guards did it.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You might've covered this in the tour.
You might not have, I can'tremember, but I did see some
research that said that facilityis haunted.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was very much haunted.
For many, many years.
I talked to people that workedthere, even back in the sixties,
that said, oh yeah, doors openand close by themselves,
screaming from empties.
There were parts of the prisonthat were dilapidated, that were
like sealed off, and they wouldhear screaming, crying out of
the chapel.
That was the one that I seem tohear most frequently the
sobbing out of one of thechapels, which, by the way,
(13:16):
still stands.
It's being used as a communitycenter.
I had a call from somebody Idon't have any way of verifying
it, but it's a good story.
They worked on the set of Sonsof Anarchy, which was filmed
over there, or some of thisInteresting yeah, so this was
back when the prison was allclosed.
They were just using it as afilm set.
But you know, wandering aroundin the middle of the night while
(13:42):
they were shooting, and heardcrying coming out of one of the
buildings, so vivid that theybelieve somebody was stuck
inside.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It was all boarded up and it was empty and vacant, as
can be.
That is frightening.
I, I, I would want to shut downthe production.
I'd say that's not my contract,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But when you think about what happened there, I
mean it was a sad place.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I know I always wonder why certain places have
energy that you could call maybeenergy that stays, or why
they're so haunted while othersare not.
But for that one that'sunderstandable, that it seems
like there's so many places likethat where there's just a lot
of trauma, like old hospitals orinstitutions like that where
the spirit would have a hardtime moving on and I'm sure
(14:23):
you're familiar with the.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, this is one of the.
There was a movie about this.
I'm sure you're familiar withthe old the chicken coop murders
, right that's right, yeah,right and you know, the little
boy was incarcerated in FrancineEllis.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Can you just give a quick?
So I know that story, but canyou just give a quick rundown on
that?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Basically the story is I guess you would call him a
psychopath, but he rounded upchildren and hid them in a
chicken coop and murdered themover time and he had a cousin I
believe it was a cousin thathelped him.
I mean just horrible and thereason that I mean he was hanged
when he was.
Eventually he was caught and hewas hanged for his crimes the
(15:01):
little boy was not and he wasincarcerated in Fred Sinales.
Now, what's interesting aboutthat was, whatever they did with
him and Fred Sinales must'veworked the judge was not overly
harsh on him and felt that hereally didn't have any say in it
, because, I mean, this guyabused him so horribly.
He would eventually return hometo Canada, which was where he
(15:25):
was from.
He served honorably in WorldWar II, went on to marry, had a
family, never spoke about whathad happened to him until much
later in life.
Very, very interesting storyand obviously we have a
connection with you to it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I saw the movie Changeling with Angelina Jolie
and it was loosely based off ofone of the boys that was
murdered in the chicken coopmurder and at that time the
police department, which we'llcover in another episode very
corrupt, very corrupt.
They brought home another kidto her because her kid had gone
missing while she was workingduring the day and she would
(16:01):
leave her child alone.
They brought an entirelydifferent kid home to her and
said here's your son.
And it was not her son and theygaslit her for it.
But they just wanted to looklike they had solved the case
and it really was something muchmore horrible and sordid
underneath all of it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And my understanding is we still don't have closure
on everything.
There are missing boys from thearea who they don't really know
whether they're connected to itor not.
My guess is that story is we'renever going to have the
complete picture.
Yeah, actually, I mean, the guywas just an absolute psychopath
(16:39):
.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, on the note of psychopath, while we're going
really dark, let's talk aboutGeorge Hassel.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh, the old George.
Yeah, we like George.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
This was a story you told on the tour, which I
thought was crazy, because Iknow a lot about true crime
cases and I know a lotespecially in doing this season
for Dark City, but I'd neverheard of George Hassel.
When you do, at least in thepodcast world, you do some
research on him.
There's almost nothing on him,yet this is probably one of the
most horrific cases I've everheard, If his name is even
(17:14):
George Hassel.
But I'll let you share therundown on that.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
What's interesting about him is how he has
basically disappeared.
I never heard the story growingup.
As far as I know, the WhittierMuseum and the curator was
unaware of the story.
I mean, like I said, my familyhas been here for a long time.
As far as I know, mygrandmother was never aware of
it.
I think the community was sohorrified by what had happened
(17:44):
and what he did that everybodydecided let's not talk about
this, let's just let it go away.
And it did.
The only reason it wasuncovered is because a woman in
Texas was doing research on menwho murdered their families and
she uncovered some newspaperclippings in Texas of what he
had done to his family there andfound reference to Whittier.
And then that's the recordstarted coming out, basically
(18:06):
the long and short of it.
We know that he was from Texas.
We know he left Texas underkind of a cloud of suspicion
that his brother was found deadon the family ranch.
He told everybody that a mulehad kicked him but the coroner
wasn't sure, couldn't proveanything and he got out of Dodge
.
He left.
(18:28):
We know that he traversed thecountry.
We believe he was in the armyfor a while and deserted.
We know that he was on a shipfor a while, working as a
merchant marine.
At some point he shows up inWhittier and marries a widow who
had three small children,including an infant, and they
(18:48):
lived together for a while.
He worked as a roughneck up inthe hills on the oil rigs the
hills on the oil rigs and thelong and short of it.
The newspaper says that shewanted him to join the army when
World War I broke out and hedidn't.
He flew into a rage and murderedher and then the children and
(19:10):
buried them Apparently.
He spent days butchering thecorpses and I mean, I don't know
exactly how he did it, but I doknow that when they dug up the
remains in 1925, that what theyfound were fragments.
So that tells me he probablyused his law.
Neighbors, though.
(19:37):
He went to the closest neighborand told them not to look for
his wife because he'd taken herto the train station and she was
going to be in San Franciscovisiting a sister, I believe.
And obviously that was not thecase.
But you know, good old innocentWhittier, you know we're a
religious community and peopleprobably just believed him, and
then the house was vacant andnobody knew what had happened.
The man go ahead.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh no, so did he just say that she took the kids with
them too?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, kids are gone.
They went with mom, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, and it's not like you have social media back
then, when you can trace certainthings, and why would you not
believe that would be the case?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I think the innocence of the era was people took
others at their word.
And you know I'm sure my guessis when he didn't return in a
reasonable amount of time,people probably did poke around
the house and what happened tothem?
I'm sure it was eventually sold.
You know he obviously couldhave enough job cleaning up,
that nobody suspected.
And you know he obviously couldhave enough job cleaning up
that nobody suspected.
(20:36):
And you know why would you?
Why would you suspect thatsomebody had butchered their
family?
It's such an awful way.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I also always wonder too, or maybe you know this, but
did he give people creepy vibes?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Those cases where people didn't suspect or never
got to read that.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Those are the scary, really scary ones.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
So I show his picture on my tour and I never say to
read that those are the scary,really scary ones.
So I show his picture on mytour and I never say a whole lot
.
I just say you want to meetGeorge?
Here he is.
And people that look at hisphoto and this is probably
because I've just told them thisawful story but they tell me
that he has shark eyes.
I hear that again and again.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I remember seeing that picture, yeah eyes of a
predator.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But this is what I will tell you that the history
says.
When he was incarcerated inTexas for killing his family
there because he left California, obviously, and went back to
Texas and killed againApparently the newspaper article
said he was very charming andwhile he was in jail women would
(21:38):
visit him and converse with him.
Children would as well.
I guess people didn't haveanything to do, so let's go
visit the maniac in prison, butapparently he was very, very
charming and women found himattractive.
So I think he was that typethat you know, the Ted Bundy
type.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I saw the picture, though, and of course I'm
tainted by the fact that I knowthe backstory, and the same
would be said about what wecovered.
Jack Parsons, the rocketscientist, who was also crazy
into the occult too, but like Ican't look at them the same, but
I do remember, with GeorgeHassel in particular.
He, he does look, he looks, helooks terrifying, even if you
(22:18):
hadn't told me the story.
There's something about theeyes.
Maybe it was the way the lightcaught, or just Not just the
eyes, though.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
There's a smile that almost reminds me of the Joker.
I mean, it's like there'ssomething very dark behind that
grin.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, we'll post a picture on our social media so
you can.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
oh, yeah, everyone can see this um, but you know,
um, it's interesting that he wasable to charm so many people.
And I, I killed another familyin texas, in the family that he
killed in texas, that he hunteddown each child, slitting their
throat with a, with a straight,straight razor, which you know.
(22:58):
Obviously I don't want to gettoo graphic, but that would have
been a um, you have, you haveto be a pretty cold person to
kill somebody that way.
That's not an easy way to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And I, you know I and I probably I don't know if I
mentioned it on the tour thatyou were on.
I don't always say this, but Ihad an LAPD detective that
pulled me aside after the tourwas over and he said that man's
a lot worse than you, you'veeven told us.
And I just said I can just tellyou what are in the old
newspaper articles.
And he said no, he's like you,don't?
You don't murder your familyunless you've been practicing.
(23:31):
And he believed that the guyhad probably killed many, many
more that we don't know about.
And you know I mean I'm justthrowing that out there, I have
no proof of it, it's just, it'sinteresting.
I was going to mention that.
You know, for anybody that'slistening to this, you know
obviously George got what wascoming to him in the end.
You know I mentioned on thetour.
You know he got the electricchair.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And I don't know how I feel about the death penalty,
but I feel like if there was acase, you would use that I'm
okay with this one.
Yeah, he does not belong on thisearth.
Let's talk about TurnbullCanyon.
So we could probably do anentire episode just on Turnbull
Canyon.
Turnbull for those who aren'tfamiliar with it has hiking
(24:15):
trails that give you a panoramicview of the surrounding cities.
You can see all the way todowntown on a clear day.
Some don't like to hike itbecause of all of the
backstories of the area.
I haven't personally hiked ityet.
I actually really want to.
It's just every time I've beenit's a fun hike it's not shaded
right, so I'm going to have towait till the weather cools down
(24:38):
.
It looks great.
I just always am by myself.
When I've been in the area Iwould have not been paying
attention if I and I think justgenerally I've always worn never
hike by yourself, guys.
It's just not a good idea.
But I have driven TurnbullCanyon Road which goes through
the canyon from Whittier toHacienda Heights on the other
sides.
But once you get into thecanyon and you drive along the
(25:00):
switchbacks, it's like you getthis really kind of eerie vibe
because you get pretty deep intothe hills where you can't see
above them, you can't see thesurrounding cities and it almost
feels like you're in the middleof nowhere.
But you're very much in themiddle of a sprawling county,
but you really feel like it'sjust you and I think it's
isolated, as it's always been inisolated part of Whittier and
(25:24):
LA County.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think that contributes to the legends.
But there are some things andthere are people over the years
that have tried to come out andsay that you know, it's, it's
really not.
A lot of these stories andmyths are just myths, but not
all of them are.
We know that an airplanecrashed there back in the 1950s
(25:47):
and killed and I've seen thephotos.
It was bad.
I mean, it was really bad.
But we can even go back further.
One of the men actually two menthat have owned the land were
killed.
Actually one self-inflicted,wayne Workman, killed himself.
John Trumbull was beaten todeath.
I wasn't in the canyon, but Ido think that there is.
(26:10):
You know, there's been somemurders back in there as well.
Bad car accidents, somehorrible car accidents in fact.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I think all of this contributes to that spooky
vibe that you get when you'reeither on the hiking trails or
even driving the road.
Can you share one of the?
Because you told severaldifferent stories on the tour,
but gosh, all of the ghoststories are pretty frightening,
so I'll let you pick which oneyou think.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Well, I'm going to tell you one, and I'm not going
to tell you the name of theperson because there are family
members that are still around.
But this is this is one where,and if you want to do your
research on this murder, this isinformation that's very
available, should you choose tofind it.
But I have, for many years,have been told that people have
(27:06):
seen a man in late 1970s eraclothing walking the road and he
looks a little disheveled.
And he looks a littledisheveled and when they look in
the rearview mirror when theypass him, he's gone, he's just
vanished.
(27:26):
And I never had a story to gowith, like, who is this guy?
I mean, you know, most peoplealways talk about old ghosts,
like Victorian era or whatever,but this is a modern ghost.
I had a guy on my tour whopulled me aside at the end and
told me about his friend andbasically this is the story.
There was a group of Whittierhigh school friends.
(27:49):
They went into Turnbull Canyon.
They were doing drugs and anargument took place and they
stabbed one of the boys.
They all got together andstabbed him, but they didn't
kill him and they left a couplehours later they were wondering
to one another, maybe he's stillalive crawled onto the road he
(28:12):
was still very much alive.
They found him and theyfinished the job.
And the person that told me thisstory was in fact he was one of
this guy's friends.
I mean, he wasn't the one thatdid it, he was just one of his
high school buddies.
And so suddenly it's like okay,I think now we have the origin
(28:33):
of this individual that walks onthe road and disappears.
And I looked up the newspaperarticles and it was definitely a
story of the time and it wassomething well-known.
But you know awfully tragicstory and you know, if you do
believe in the paranormal, itmakes sense why he's still
wandering all these years later.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, oh, that is an awful story, especially in those
cases where it's like peoplewho are so young and it's a
group that commits something sohorrific against someone that If
we want to switch gears tosomething a little more
lighthearted.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Have you ever heard of the Trimble Canyon Beast?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Did you share that one?
I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I never share it because.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
No, this sounds familiar, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
If you look around you might find it online, but
there's people that believe thatthere is some sort of a large
wolf-like beast that roams thehills and people have it's
chased cars.
Maybe it's a big coyote, Idon't know, but it's the
Sasquatch Possibly.
But yeah, people have seen itover the.
(29:39):
The closest I've ever got tointerviewing somebody that saw
it was that.
I mean, I've just I've heardthe story that you know track,
it's always a friend of a friendof a friend you know how that
is that saw it.
I actually found somebody thatthis is the closest I can come.
They were hiking, actually atnight, on one of the trails that
is owned by the cemetery rosehills.
(29:59):
So this wasn't a place theyshould have been and they um,
they saw some, some red eyes inthe bushes and they heard some
growling and, uh, it seemed verylarge.
Whatever it was was very largeand they got out of the canyon
very quick, but they said theycould hear it following them so
there could be a very.
(30:19):
When people talk about thebeast, I remind them that there
are mountain lions back therewith turnbull canyon.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Even with all like the true stories or you know
haunting stories that you can'tever really validate, like
you're, in enough times, it'sprobably true, there's also a
few that are just not accurate.
So one is the devil's gate.
Devil's gate, yeah.
So there's a lot of there's alot of sources that say that
(30:46):
they have their own myth.
But you've done some research.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Tell us about that Well, devil's gate is.
It's funny because my uncletalked about devil's gate, so it
was a thing even back in likethe sixties.
And you know I asked him aboutit and the story that he told me
and this is the one that wasgoing around Lacerna high school
back in probably the latesixties or seventies that there
had been a mass, there'd been anasylum back there, a legitimate
(31:14):
, insane asylum, and they wereconducting, as oftentimes is the
case, illegal experimentation.
And so there were stories aboutpeople would see these
ambulances going back into thecanyon and they always had
people in the back but yetnobody ever came out of the
asylum.
(31:34):
And sometime in the 1930s theinmates revolted and burned the
place down but it was nevercompletely burned down, it just
part of it was and they killedthe nursing staff and the
doctors and whatnot and it satthere up on that hill for many,
many years.
Is this, you know, testament ofthe horrible things that had
(31:54):
happened there?
And sometime in the 50s or 60syou hear different things from
different people that there wasa group of, I don't know, urban
explorers Maybe they were on adate with some girls and they
decided to explore the oldasylum and they worked their way
into the what had been theelectric shock therapy room and
(32:17):
the equipment was still thereall these years later.
And one of the boys put it onto scare the girls and it
snapped into life and hecouldn't take it off and his
eyeballs ruptured and he waskilled in this horrible fashion.
And the community wereobviously very just disgusted by
what had happened.
So they destroyed the asylumbut they left the gate.
(32:38):
The gate is still there, butnothing was left but the
foundation.
And I will tell you, Iabsolutely believed the story
growing up.
We would drive by Devil's Gateand we would point to it and
that was where it happened.
So it's the wonderful urbanmyth and I love it.
Unfortunately, there's nohistorical evidence that there
(33:00):
was ever an asylum up there.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That's what they want you to think.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I know?
Can you imagine they wouldnever lie to us, right?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
No, I'm totally kidding.
I believe you.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And the thing is, if there had been such a structure
up there, you would find somereferences to it.
However, this is interestingbecause we have a local woman
who was very, very involved inWhittier history.
She's not an actual historian,but she's a collector.
She really dives into a lot ofthese old Whittier stories.
She found a reference that thefamily that owned Rose Hills at
(33:35):
one point had what they wouldhave called a sanitarium up in
that area.
It was a place, you know,that's what they call them back
then.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And it it was.
I guess it was specifically forwomen, where women could get
away.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's a little different than what you
described before.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh, absolutely, but it would.
It was a place where they wouldbe able to relax.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Right why a lot of people came to Los Angeles too,
to the weather and to recover,and yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
But they called it a sanitarium and in fact it did
burn down.
But a lot of buildings burneddown in the era because they
didn't have the safetyprecautions that we have today,
and if you know where to look,you can find the remains of some
of the foundation is stillaround up in the hills.
Remains of some of thefoundation is still around up in
the hills, if you you know whattrail to find.
Um, I've seen pictures of them.
Um, but I do wonder if, um,that has kind of that's, maybe
(34:27):
that did come into pop culture alittle bit and maybe contribute
to the story.
So I don't know for sure, butit could be that that's the
origin yeah, there's, there's alot of stories like that.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Like we tell that one on Griffith Park.
I had told you about wherethere's supposed to be a haunted
picnic table, but when you goand research the story it's
based off of an entirely fakenew site.
Yeah, like they really wantedthat to look like light times,
but it's LA turns is like theactual site when you look at it,
but yet you know it's citedover and over again.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You know, over the years I've had a lot of people
ask me to talk about the asylum,and I'm always happy to do so.
But I always open it up.
I'm like, okay, we're gettinginto myth territory.
Do you want to know the truthor do you just want to enjoy the
story for what it is?
Because it is, I even see itand I know this may sound funny,
but I see it as an importantpart of the heritage of our area
(35:23):
, even though there's nothing toit.
But it is a story Many of usgrew up with and right, and
that's why we, some of us, woulddrive into the Canyon looking
for the spirits of these slain,insane people that were sadly
wandering the Canyon foreternity.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I don't know if you want to find them, if they were
there.
No, no, you do not you do not.
There is a picture that hasbeen circulated on social media
in various different places ofsupposed devil worshippers.
It's pretty disturbing.
It's a bunch of people wearingblack hoods and robes Probably
not legitimate.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I don't believe it's a real picture.
I have talked to policeofficers that were here back in
that seventies and eighties andtold me that yes, there were
people that went up there to dosatanic type worshiping and
whatnot.
I doubt they did anything awfulawful other than you know.
Just I don't know praying tothe devil or whatever, but you
(36:22):
know, as far as I mean, and thatis part of the myth is that you
know, children were murdered upthere by Satanists and whatnot.
I have never found any evidencethat there's any truth to any of
that.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
The last location I wanted to ask you about that has
a lot of historicalsignificance was well, it used
to be the CW Leffingwell Ranch.
It used to be an agriculturaloperation, obviously not in
existence anymore.
From what I understand, homeshave been built over it when?
(36:52):
Is it located or where was it?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Where is it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
today in Whittier.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
It was very large.
I mean it was a very largeranch.
If you're familiar with any ofyour listeners know Whittier,
they'll know the Whitwood Mallthat was part of Charles
Wesley's Leffingwell Ranch.
Also the Whitwood Ranch Library, the apartments that are across
the street from that.
I mean we have a street calledLeffingwell.
Nobody knows who it's namedafter anymore, but it did exist.
(37:21):
The ranch did exist there fromthe 1800s up to 1951, if you can
believe it.
That was when they finallythere was a housing crisis in
the area at the time and theranches were being shut down and
turned into communities andturned into communities and
there was a lot of scandalassociated with it.
(37:45):
They had Japanese and Mexicansthat were both brought over to
the ranch and the reason I bringup that it's important that
there were two races, becausethey were segregated.
The ranch actually builthousing, and when I say housing,
it probably wasn't the nicestthing.
They were bunk houses forworkers, but they built separate
ones for Mexicans and separateones for the Japanese.
(38:05):
It was probably done just dueto cultural and language
differences.
I think that was kind of athing back then.
But yes, they absolutely didbring those people over.
The ranch mostly producedlemons and walnuts and that's
what they were picking.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
You had shared a story on the tour about a
residual haunting that tracesback to one of the Japanese
immigrants, possibly atLeftingwell Ranch.
It's one of the scariest ghoststories I've ever heard.
But since we are low on timeand I want you all to take the
tour, I'm just going to use thatto tease your tour, if you guys
want to hear that it is.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
it is a terrifying story.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Really yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Which, by the way, obviously we won't go too much
into it, but that was one of theones that was shared with me by
the Whittier Museum and I kindof held onto it for a little
while because it was kind of aone-off but we talked about that
.
But I've heard some otherpeople that have seen her um,
(39:06):
including somebody who sold her.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So I'm never going near that area again.
I do not like that yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, so, uh, maybe it's a different spirit, I don't
know, but uh, uh, yeah, so, um,it's, it's a great story and I
and I will tell you why I likeit without telling the story.
I like it because it is areminder that not only did
Leffingwell Ranch exist, butthose Japanese people did work
on the ranch, and I grew up inthis area.
I never knew that and bytelling this story, we do
(39:35):
remember that and you can decidewhether that's tragic history
or not, but at least we'retalking about it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
One thing I do want to ask you too is so our podcast
is dedicated to all the darkand sordid tales, but obviously,
you know, we're hoping to piquepeople's interest in just
learning about all of thehistory, not just the bad stuff.
But like for those who areinterested in visiting Whittier,
I mean, I'll have you plug yourdoor too in a second here.
(40:02):
But what are some of the goodthings?
How it's evolved today, stuffthat people should check out.
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Well, I hope people do come Uptown.
Whittier is a wonderful oldpart of Southern California.
We have Victorian homes, wehave craftsman homes.
It's a charming place to justdrive around and look at some of
the old homes.
In the historical districtGreenleaf itself.
We have Nixon Plaza where thepresident of the United States
(40:28):
used to work, and it's abeautiful building, very classic
.
We have a lot of 1920sarchitecture on Greenleaf that
still survives all these yearslater and you know, come and
check it out, have dinner.
You know, go to some of therestaurants here.
They're mostly family owned or,and you know, you help them out
a lot if you go to thoserestaurants and those cafes.
(40:50):
So please come and visit.
Just kind of a funny story whenI started this ghost tour, a
friend of mine from Anaheim cameout to go on it and when it was
over he's like how have I livedin Southern California my
entire life and never realizedwhat a gem this community is?
I've never been here and seenthese things.
So on the tour you get to seesome of it.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, definitely, and I told you before I love going
there because it's not too farfrom where I live and just
working at one of the coffeeshops or another restaurants
there, I've done that quite abit.
Greenleaf is a really cutelittle street too Well with that
.
So for those I hope we'll takethe tour and not live in your
(41:33):
city or surrounding city and notknow all of this great history.
How can people find you?
And if you could just brieflysay you know, cause you have
more than one tour.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So, um, you know, please find us on Instagram or
on Facebook.
If you just look at look uphaunted Whittier tours, um,
it'll come right up.
All the ticket information Ifyou'd like to come on a tour is
there.
We do two different tours.
Right now we're doing oneinside the Whittier Museum.
That is a flashlight tour,which is very scary.
It's an old building with somegreat history.
(42:05):
Come and check it out.
It's a lot of fun.
We go through the flashlightsand we always have weird stuff
happen.
Almost every tour I've donewe've had weird things happen.
The other tour is my historicdistrict tour and we're doing
those on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, the month of October, and we
still have a few ticketsavailable, so hopefully some of
your listeners can come andcheck it out.
(42:27):
If they miss it, we'll be backin December.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
And we'll link all that in the show notes as well,
so you can easily find it and Ihighly recommend it.
Thank you.
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