February 1, 2025 • 61 mins
Los Angeles, CA | Was Roscoe “Fatty” Arbuckle a scapegoat or a villain? Did George Reeves take his own life, or was there something more sinister at play? In this episode, we dive into two of Hollywood’s most infamous tragedies—Arbuckle’s scandalous trial that destroyed his career and Reeves’ mysterious death that still fuels conspiracy theories. Decades apart, both cases captivated the public and left behind more questions than answers. And even though Arbuckle received an official verdict and Reeves’ death was ruled a suicide, both stories remain unsettled to this day.
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📚 In a world where anyone can publish anything and skip giving credit to their sources, we do right by the many historians, journalists, and experts who made this episode possible by citing their work. Our key sources for this episode are listed below. A complete list can be found on our website.
-Alexandra, R. (2018, July 9). The Superman curse: A look at all the death, destruction and destitution. KQED. https://www.kqed.org/pop/101544/the-superman-curse-a-look-at-all-the-death-destruction-and-destitution
-Dotinga, R. (2014, February 28). 'Room 1219' author Greg Merritt discusses what really happened in the 1921 Fatty Arbuckle case. The Christian Science Monitor. https://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2014/0228/Room-1219-author-Greg-Merritt-discusses-what-really-happened-in-the-1921-Fatty-Arbuckle-case
-Eagan, D. (2011, November 16). More on Fatty Arbuckle: His films and his legacy. Smithsonian Magazine. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/more-on-fatty-arbuckle-his-films-and-his-legacy-1-251402/
-Gross, E. (2024, November 2). George Reeves on Superman, fame and life’s struggles: “He never knew how loved he was”. Woman’s World. https://www.womansworld.com/entertainment/classic-tv/george-reeves-the-life-of-tvs-first-superman
-Los Angeles Times. (1959, June 17). From the archives: George Reeves, Superman of TV, kills himself in his home. Obituaries. https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-george-reeves-19590617-20160615-snap-story.html
-Moran, T. (2013, October 4). Book review: 'Room 1219' by Greg Merritt. The Wall Street Journal. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304213904579095361344867906
-Murray, E. A. (2015). Forensic history: Crimes, frauds, and scandals [Guidebook]. Wondrium. https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/forensic-history-crimes-frauds-and-scandals?tn=632_tray_Course_2_6_5304&lecplay=8
-Patterson, J. (2013, September 6). 'Room 1219,' by Greg Merritt. SFGATE. https://www.sfgate.com/books/article/room-1219-by-greg-merritt-4793811.php
-Schulman, M. (2021, October 4). Fatty Arbuckle and the birth of the celebrity scandal. The New Yorker. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/10/11/fatty-arbuckle-and-the-birth-of-the-celebrity-scandal
-The State Bar of California. (2019, January 24). The many trials of Fatty Arbuckle. https://www.sfbar.org/blog/sfam-the-many-trials-of-fatty-arbuckle/
-Superman’s estate left to wife of friend. (1959, June 23). Los Angeles, California. Newspapers.com. https://www.newspapers.com/image/380676506/?match=1&terms=%22geo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi friends, this is Leah and this is April.
Today it's easier than ever tomake and publish a podcast, but
that also means it's never beenharder to stand out, especially
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(00:26):
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Speaker 2 (00:31):
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Speaker 1 (00:39):
So remember one rate and review, two, share with
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Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you so much, and we got rain in LA today.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yay, actually, we started getting it a couple of
(01:13):
days ago, which is good.
The good news is we got rain inLA today, Yay, Actually, we
started getting it a couple ofdays ago which is good, but it
desperately, desperately needsit and I think we are slowly
moving through the stages ofgrief.
(01:43):
I didn't say this on the lastepisode when I did a rundown of
the fires, but I personally hadI can't remember if I told you
this, but I had these weirdcoincidences with fire in the
days leading up to the actualfire.
So the book I was reading, Ihad just started reading, was
fire this time because we weregoing to cover the race riots.
We pushed that episode out alittle bit farther, but the book
(02:04):
was called Fire this time.
And then a friend of mine sentme a case that was potentially
it was a fire, that waspotentially an arson, because
now I'm the repository for allthings macabre.
And then I was reading the bookthe Shining.
I was reading the book theShining.
(02:29):
I got to the end like the daybefore or two days before the
fires and the whole hotel blowsup in the book.
I don't remember it didn't dothat in the movie, I don't
remember.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I feel like Dr Sleep is more fresh in my mind.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I haven't read or seen that movie yet I have not
read it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I gave my husband Dr Sleep one year for Christmas.
The movie is very good.
Okay, I think it is fairlyclose to the book.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Okay, all I remember is, of course, jack Nicholson's
frozen face from the end, and Idon't remember.
Oh yeah, I know it's morbid,but it blows up in the book.
And then also, when I was goingthrough old pictures I came
across way back when we wereresearching the Griffith Park
episode I went to the museum inthe park had an exhibit on
(03:18):
Griffith Park and then just abunch of other exhibits related
to LA, and they have thesereally cool boards where it's
like art you can be a part of Ithink is the idea so they'll put
a question on the board and youcan fill out your answer on a
post-it and put it up there, andthe picture I came across was
it was an exhibit on fire and itwas when you think of fire.
(03:40):
what do you think of when youthink of fire?
I wrote down death and birth.
It was just so weird comingacross all of those things.
Yeah, yeah.
And before we dive into theepisode itself, I just have to
say the Shining was amazing.
His work is so much more thanjust haunted hotels and people
that get buried in cemeteriesand come back as bloodthirsty
(04:03):
zombies and killer clowns.
Right, it was deeplypsychologically complex get
buried in cemeteries and comeback, as you know, bloodthirsty
zombies and killer clowns.
Right, it was deeplypsychologically complex, and I
think I've said this on thepodcast before, but I find the
living so much more terrifyingat times than the dead.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to Dr Sleep, but I don't
really read a lot of StephenKing because they're so heavy
(04:23):
and especially when the fireshappened, I had Dr.
Sleep queued up to start and Ithought I'm going to just pause
on that for a little while.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You need a little bit lighter reading to counteract
that heaviness of the day-to-day.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Exactly the episode today.
We're going to go back to oldHollywood, because I realized
we're covering LA and we haven'treally covered that much of
Hollywood.
There are so many cases that wecould have picked.
The ones we picked for todayrepresent Hollywood's darker
side during two distinct eras.
(05:00):
One is the case of Roscoe, orhe was called Fatty Arbuckle,
from the 1920s silent film era,and then the George Reeves case.
George Reeves played Supermanin the 1950s that's the
television age as it was gettinggoing and both deaths are
really interesting because,despite being so heavily
(05:20):
investigated and having officialdeterminations heavily
investigated and having officialdeterminations they're still.
They still, even afterresearching, they still feel
unresolved.
There's still questions whereit's like I don't know
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I'll start with thecase of Roscoe Arbuckle, as I
mentioned, also known morecommonly as Fatty Arbuckle, and
(05:42):
I'm going to note this upfront.
He really did not like beingcalled Fatty and I don't like
that name, regardless of whetheror not he did this crime, I
just don't like it.
So I'm going to call him Roscoethroughout this episode, but
Roscoe is Fatty Arbuckle Forthose of you that's probably all
of you If you know of him.
That's how you know him.
(06:02):
I had listened to Morbid thebest podcast ever.
It's okay if you leave us forthat A few episodes, but Ash led
that case.
She's one of the two co-hostsbut she had noted that up front
that he really did not like thename.
He was a bigger guy, which iswhy he was called that, though
(06:22):
he was also really nimble andgraceful, because he was a
trained dancer on top of beingan actor, which we'll get into
that in a second here.
Roscoe was born Roscoe ConklingArbuckle on March 24th 1887.
Roscoe was, I saw in one source, he's one of eight kids.
Then I read in another sourcethat there were eight kids
(06:43):
before him.
All I know is that sounds likesix or seven.
Yeah, sorry, oh, my gosh Backthen I mean women had so many
babies.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I mean, you kind of didn't really have a choice back
then.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So yeah, I know, and then also too, like people could
die from what's now vaccinepreventable diseases.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, or you neverknow.
Roscoe, when he was bornsources waver between okay,
imagine this anyways, but in1921, he weighed anywhere
between 13 to 16 pounds.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Did his mother have gestational diabetes?
You get really babies.
When you, I had gestationaldiabetes the first time.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, my gosh, I don't know, but it did permanently.
It permanently gave her body alot of problems, which is
understandable.
But also the rest of his familywere just.
They were normal weight andbecause of that his father
insisted he could not be his kidand treated him terrible
because of that.
So that is just soheartbreaking.
(07:52):
We'll get into what he wasaccused of.
If he was really not guilty, mygosh, this poor guy suffered.
But if he really was guilty,then I still think that's not
right and probably, having thatchildhood, certainly that's not
going to put you on a goodtrajectory in life.
He started his career as anentertainer very early.
(08:14):
He was on stage by the time hewas eight years old and he came
of age, touring the country,acting and dancing According to
age touring the country, actingand dancing.
According to smithsonianmagazine, quote the experience
taught arbuckle how to play anykind of scene or situation, from
rube to aristocrat, rural,rural rural.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One of the last names in mine is brewer, and when I
was reading carl brewer I waslike carl burr oh my gosh, oh
god what movie is that?
Is that black sheep when he'slike rural or rural?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I totally don't know.
Or was it a saturday night?
live skit okay right in we'llfigure it out after this episode
.
I'm sorry, that's okay.
So he could play any kind ofscene or situation, from Rube to
aristocrat, rural slapstick tomelodrama.
He knew what made a joke work,what endeared characters to
(09:13):
theater goers and how far hecould push a gag.
Like the best screen comedians,arbuckle knew how to make
anyone laugh in a manner soeffortless that seemed magical,
which is a really cool gift tohave.
Absolutely In his career, hewould not just star in a wide
range of films, he would alsobuild his own company, oversee
(09:34):
his scripts and become adirector.
At one point he was paid morethan any other actor in
Hollywood.
In 1921, the same year that thescandal we're about to talk
about went down, he signed adeal with Paramount Pictures
worth what is about $16 milliontoday.
Later in his career, hedeveloped this attraction to a
(09:55):
Hollywood star by the name ofVirginia Rappe.
Virginia was born on July 7,1891 in Chicago, and she did not
have an easy childhood either.
Her mom passed away when shewas 11.
She never knew her father, andafter her mom passed away she
was raised by her grandmother.
(10:15):
But despite all of thosehardships, she started a
modeling career early, at theage of 14.
And she was one of the firstwomen to actually make a living
from this new profession.
Eventually she became a silentfilm actress and also a fashion
designer.
She was very feminist and aheadof her time and I think later
(10:36):
people had a problem with thatand it made it so much worse for
her in the press, unfortunately.
She posed in men's clothing asa way of asking for equal
clothing rights with men.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
We're more modern.
I don't see anything wrong withthat, but I'm sure it was
scandalous back then.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So before I go into the scandalous event that is at
the center of this story, firstlet me just give you a picture
of 1920s Hollywood.
It was a center of extravaganceof 1920s Hollywood.
It was a center of extravagance, glamour and scandal.
The tragedy I'm about todescribe is one of the major
public scandals that got a lotof media and public attention
(11:12):
early in the industry, and it'sall happening in a broader
context.
There's prohibition.
It's the jazz age Also and thisis crazy to think of today
women were just getting theright to vote Crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I know, our brains are so small.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I mean, how many hundreds of thousands of years
have homo sapiens been?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
They just still haven't developed to the 1900s.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I know, I know, 300,000 years later, women
finally are determined to beable to be competent to vote.
So it's not surprising too,when I think of Virginia Rappe
and just how out there she waswith stuff that today is
completely not a big deal, butalso just her independence and
(12:02):
her strength.
I can see how later on, when weget into how the press handled
this whole scandal, how itreally just tore her apart and
it is really too bad because shewas gone at that point and she
couldn't even speak for herself.
The events at the center ofthis story occurred over Labor
(12:25):
Day weekend in 1921.
So Roscoe, along with a fewfriends, drove from Los Angeles
to San Francisco to throw aparty at the St Francis Hotel
and it sounded like your typicalProhibition-era party.
It's got the bootleg alcoholbeautiful women era party.
It's got like the bootlegalcohol, beautiful women.
I saw one picture on thewebsite.
(12:48):
All that's Interesting and it'sbasically like the furniture is
smashed up to the point whereit's not even recognizable.
I think Motley Crue had morerespect for their hotel room.
It was just insane on its own.
Roscoe's love interest, virginiaRapet, was also at the party on
September 5th, with a lot ofdrunkenness and debauchery.
(13:11):
The only thing that can reallybe said for certain was that
both Virginia and Roscoe were inthe same hotel room together at
one point, and when Roscoe leftthe room she was lying on the
bed in obvious distress andcrying in pain.
As to the specifics from there,I mean, we will probably never,
(13:31):
ever know the full story Now.
The pain Virginia wasexperiencing continued for three
days until finally she went tothe doctor, who originally
thought it was alcohol poisoningfrom the bootleg liquor.
But it wasn't alcohol poisoning.
It turned out that she hadperitonitis from a ruptured
(13:55):
bladder, and she ultimately diedon September 9th 1921 after
several days of suffering.
That sounds awful.
It sounds like one of the worstways you could possibly die
this type of infection.
It causes intense inflammation.
It makes your abdomen so tenderthat even if someone tries to
(14:16):
just slightly touch you, it'shorrible, horrible pain.
From what I understand, it'slike the worst stomach pain
you've ever had, multiplied bylike a thousand, and it also
causes severe nausea, which isthe symptoms that they saw,
which also is a symptom of beingincredibly drunk and
potentially having alcoholpoisoning.
(14:38):
But beyond that there's feverand then just an overwhelming
feeling of illness as theinfection spreads and your body
tries desperately to fight itoff.
The question is what caused theruptured bladder, and that
would be the central question inthis case.
Now, warning this is going tobe really, really rough.
(15:00):
One of the partygoers, maudeDelmont, reported to authorities
on September 9th that Roscoehad violently sexually assaulted
Virginia, and it was thecrushing force of his weight
that caused her bladder torupture.
In a blog post on the SanFrancisco Bar Association
website, maude is quoted assaying I could hear Virginia
(15:23):
kicking and screaming violentlyand I had to kick and batter the
door before Mr Arbuckle wouldlet me in.
I looked at the bed.
There was Virginia, helplessand ravaged.
When Virginia kept screaming inagony at what Mr Arbuckle had
done, he turned to me and saidshut her up or I'll throw her
out a window.
He then went back to hisdrunken party and danced while
(15:46):
Virginia lay dying.
Also and this is deeplydisturbing and beyond
infuriating another party guest,al Semnicker this guy he is one
of Roscoe's friends andVirginia's manager Now.
He claimed that Roscoe not onlyraped Virginia but also used a
piece of ice to rape her, andnot clear it was either roscoe
(16:11):
or al.
He was joking about this thenext day with some of the men at
the party.
Needless to say, she was insuch bad company at the time she
died outside of it just being aterrible death it was.
It was not among good people.
Plot spoiler Roscoe does go totrial and we'll get to that in a
(16:33):
second here.
But later Al recanted this incourt and he said that the
prosecution had pressured him tosay that.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh yeah, that is like a bombshell revelation.
It just makes you wonder howmuch of any of that story is
true.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Well, that's the thing is that the trials and
their trials, as in plural.
You have so many cases whereeven Roscoe goes back and forth
on what actually happened.
Even from there, they're all sodrunk.
So, even some of the finedetails, they do actually kind
of matter in terms of timing andyou just never know.
(17:12):
The whole thing was just adrunken mess, no matter how you
slice or dice it.
Now Roscoe was charged andultimately tried three times for
the crime.
It sounds like okay, so if whatMaude Delmont had said to the
police was true and it wassubstantiated, which we know was
(17:33):
not, or people went back andforth so many times on it.
First and foremost, though,Maude had serious credibility
issues, so she had an extensiverecord of extortion and fraud,
specifically with blackmailingwealthy male celebrities who
attended parties with variouswomen where there would be
(17:56):
claims of rape or wrongdoing, sothat they could extort money
and things from them.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I mean this just sends up like your antenna is up
for BS.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Exactly.
And not only that, her doingthat in and of itself is just a
terrible, terrible thing to do,but if what happened to Virginia
is actually really true, you'reessentially like the boy who
cried wolf Nobody gonna believeyou.
Yeah, and understandably so, infact.
So her stories were soinconsistent and included such
(18:32):
blatant lies that ultimately,she was completely omitted from
the witness list for all threetrials.
They wouldn't even put her onthe stand which is like a
horrible tragedy.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
If your friend is trying to speak out against
something that really did happen, she's a horrible person, I
know.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
It's just bad.
Here's the thing, too, withMaude.
She sent a telegram to twoacquaintances a couple of days
before Virginia died.
That said quote we have RoscoeArbuckle in a hole here.
Chance to make money out of him, though the rape could still
have happened.
It could have.
Yeah, right, and we'll talkabout this.
(19:11):
It is actually still possiblethat both things are true, that
he did do this to her, but thatalso.
This horrible person is alsotrying to use the tragedy to
make money.
This horrible person is alsotrying to use the tragedy to
make money.
In the preliminary hearingbefore the first trial, the
presiding judge, judge SylvainMorris, decided to hold Roscoe
(19:32):
on manslaughter charges, eventhough he said the evidence
against him was weak and helikely didn't commit rape.
He said that the trial wasabout broader social morals
rather than just the defendant'sactions.
I disagree.
You can't put a person on trialfor broader social morals.
(19:52):
That's like, sir, are you okay?
Did you miss judging 101?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
He's just making an example out of him.
For what?
For everyone else in society tobe afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I don't even feel like you need to know what the
law says.
I feel like this should just bea very logical thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, this has nothing to do with his case.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Exactly, and also it pretty much guaranteed a second
trial because of fair dueprocess of it all.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
According to the case presented by the prosecutors in
the first trial, during thiswild party, Roscoe dragged
Virginia into room 1219 at thehotel.
In the trial, the prosecutionmade the case that Roscoe
wouldn't even answer the dooruntil finally one of the party
goers kicked on it when Roscoeopened it up.
This is so chilling.
If he really did do this, hewas wearing a bathrobe and one
(20:45):
of Virginia's hats if he didthose things and then was
wearing her stuff in a mockingway.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's not funny.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's very likely.
When he did open the door,people saw her in pain and it's
like what are you doing?
Just fooling around while she'sright In so much pain and so
much pain?
According to the prosecution'scase, Virginia was on the bed
when this happened, with herclothes ripped and clearly in
distress, and said that Roscoedid this to her.
(21:19):
Roscoe told Ma Delmont toremove Virginia from the room
and then he just headed out andcontinued to party.
But when the defense questionedthe prosecution's witnesses,
there were a lot ofinconsistencies, as I mentioned,
and that created a lot of doubt.
Also, the treating physiciansvaried in their official
diagnosis.
(21:40):
While the official cause ofdeath was peritonitis from a
ruptured bladder, there wereconflicting medical opinions at
the time about what actuallycaused the bladder rupture.
Some medical experts suggestedit could have been due to a
chronic condition or previousinfection rather than trauma.
At that party the defensepresented evidence that
indicated she had complicationsfrom gonorrhea and abortion and
(22:04):
also that she had chronicinflammation.
One of the nurses who treatedVirginia also testified that
Virginia told her that she hadbeen having internal pain for
six weeks prior to the party.
Roscoe's version of events theychanged a bit trial to trial,
but more or less the story hetold is he found her sick in the
(22:26):
bathroom and carried her to abed.
He assumed it was just too muchalcohol.
He asked someone at the partyto help and also asked for the
hotel's physician to check her.
The first trial ends up in adeadlocked jury with 11 to 1
voting to acquit the secondtrial, also deadlocked, only
this time the split was 9 to 3in favor of conviction.
(22:49):
The key difference seems to bebetween the first and second
trial is that Roscoe was not puton the stand to testify in the
second trial, so whatever he hadto say or his performance in
the first was really influential.
Then again, it's like are youlistening to the testimony of
(23:10):
someone who is very clearlycommunicating in a way that
shows they're not guilty?
Or is this just a trained actor?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Either way, you're fighting for your life, whether
you did it or not, probably.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
He is an actor by trade.
So, of course, when yes, ifthis is like the difference
between freedom or not, ofcourse I would put on the best
act possible.
I wouldn't have done any ofthese things and be in that.
In the third trial, roscoe wasput on the stand and the defense
strengthened theirpresentations, doubling down on
(23:46):
the damaging detail onVirginia's background and
medical history.
Also, there is a ton of badpress saying she's an amateur
call girl and she dabbled in sexwork and had five abortions.
I mean, it's the classic victimshame, yeah, victim shame Along
with, too, though.
Fair enough, though.
(24:06):
If he didn't do it, you wouldwant to know if there were
certain not to mock her, but ifthey did create certain
conditions.
That would be the real reasonwhy she died.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You'd want his defense attorney You'd want
supporting evidence?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, but it was so much more.
It was a smear campaign.
It wasn't just that.
Of course it was.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Any woman that doesn't live that prim and
proper life back then is goingto get annihilated in the media.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And in the courtroom, yeah, even today, still today,
yeah.
And in the courtroom, yeah,even today Still today.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, maybe not quite as bad, but yeah, it's still
there.
Also, they got severalwitnesses to admit that the DA
threatened them to testify, solike Al, for example, was one.
And then not only was Roscoeacquitted, the jury went so far
as to issue a written publicapology.
Acquitted, the jury went so faras to issue a written public
apology.
Wow.
But I still don't think this isso straightforward, because
(24:59):
there's a few other details.
When they did the autopsy, theyfound bruising on her legs and
they also found bruising lookedlike it's like fingers digging
into your arm, it was claimed.
Well, it was because when shewas so sick, they tried to pick
her up and put her in the tubwhen she was sick.
(25:21):
But then my question is is whyin the world would you, why
would you pick someone up thatway when she put your hands
underneath them?
That doesn't seem logical.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean a lot of times when people help somebody
up, that's like elderly they'llgrab their arm.
I've had it many times and thenyou're like you're going to
dislocate their shoulder orsomething but like that's how
people do it all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh my gosh, yeah, no, so I could.
I mean, I guess in that case,and I could see how that just it
means, yeah, they were, theywere not being safe about how
they moved, or very obviouslylogical.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, I've seen it in public and at work Also the
doctors that performed theautopsy.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
They both noted internal injuries, but there was
significant disagreement amongmedical experts about what
caused them.
And I don't know Interestingamong medical experts about what
caused them and I don't knowInteresting Exactly the nature
of what exactly defines internalinjuries.
And even if I did, I wouldn'thave the medical knowledge to be
able to say here's thepossibilities of what that could
be, of which rape is just one.
(26:26):
The defense brought in theirown medical experts, from what I
understand, who argued thatRappay's internal injuries were
consistent with her history ofchronic cystitis and other
pre-existing medical conditions.
Then also, too, another factorto consider the medical
examination capabilities I'dimagine in the 1920s were
probably fairly basic comparedto modern standards.
(26:49):
Yeah, I would imagine so.
So doctors could observeobvious external trauma and
maybe some internal injuriesthrough physical examination,
but they didn't have a lot ofthe diagnostic tools that we
have today.
You definitely can't do DNAtesting.
Right, there's no rape kits aswe know of them today and also
really limited abilities to evendocument injuries with
(27:12):
precision.
So again it all goes back towe'll just never really know.
This trial marked one ofHollywood's first major
controversies.
It's a case that demonstratesthe power of the press.
Even if a person is acquittednot once, not twice, but three
times in the court of law, theycan still be successfully
convicted in the court of publicopinion.
(27:33):
There were examples of likepreachers and editorialists
condemning Roscoe and, in abroader sense, hollywood and its
movies.
I mean, it really was.
It wasn't just putting him ontrial, it was putting the whole
industry on trial.
Many felt that Roscoe needed tobe tried and convicted of
(27:53):
something just to fight back forwhat was the perceived
immorality of the Jazz.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Age, which again like kind of goes along with what
the judge was trying to do inthat first trial.
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Only the judge should absolutely know better.
If there is any winner in thisstory, it's, of course, the
press.
Like we saw with the murder ofElizabethizabeth short, the
three-parter we just finished,crime sells newspapers like
crazy.
William randolph hurst saidthat this story sold more copies
(28:24):
than the sinking of thelusitania, which was a huge
story.
Random note because when I readthat I was like oh, that
reminds me of just to lighten itup for a second here Eric
Larson, you know, who wroteDevil in the White City?
Yes, yeah.
So he wrote this book calledDead Wake and it was so good and
that was on the Lusitania.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The Lusitania yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, by the way, I never knew and never knew.
I wanted to know so much aboutU-boats and how miserable it
must have been to be in one ofthose.
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
They're so tiny, oh, I would get claustrophobic.
I can't.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I could be on a submarine.
So this story outpaces theLusitania and, when you think of
it, all the ingredients thatwould grab attention.
You've got a famous actorpreviously seen as upstanding.
You've got this bold woman thatsociety is truly not ready for,
that dies a tragic and brutaldeath.
Sexual deviance, jazz ageimmorality all set around
(29:25):
Hollywood.
It had all of the ingredients.
Roscoe Arbuckle, regardless ofhis innocence or guilt, lost
everything.
His name would forever belinked to sexual assault and
murder.
And in the court of publicopinion, guilt lost everything.
His name would forever belinked to sexual assault and
murder.
And in the court of publicopinion he was guilty.
The studios blacklisted him inan effort to clean up their
debauched image and the trialsbankrupted him.
(29:46):
His legal bill was 700,000,which, adjusted for inflation,
is around 11 million today.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
That is a lot of money, holy cow, I know.
Even if you had a decent amountof money to start with.
That's a lot in legal fees.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I cannot appraise what is a fair legal fee in 1920
, but I'm like did they actuallybribe witnesses?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's so much money, that is so much money.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Years and years later , he would get another chance at
a Hollywood career.
He was about to sign on to anddo some really important work,
but then he died in his sleep,and that was the end this whole
story is tragic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It really is.
If he didn't do it and he gotblacklisted and then he finally
gets that job in the end.
If he did do it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It is too bad that he didn't get jail time, but his
life was pretty destroyed, whichgoes to too is like.
I mean, at the end of it it'slike, even if you but back to,
if you're not guilty, though,you're going to a prison of some
sort, of some sort yeah, yeah,you're going to pay for it one
way or another.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And he paid monetarily and with his
livelihood, right, right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So that is the tragic case of Virginia Rappe and
Roscoe Arbuckle, fast forwardinga few more decades to the 1950s
, the television age.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That's where we're going to pick up the mysterious
death of Superman star, georgeReeves.
The iconic Superman characterin comics, tv series and movies
embodied perfection withstrength, justice and morality.
Winning the Superman role intelevision's first adaptation of
(31:41):
the comic book hero in 1952seemed like the golden ticket.
But playing the perfect personon screen is not at all the
blessing, it might seem.
You might be surprised to hearthat to him it felt like more of
a curse.
Behind the scenes, george wasentangled with Hollywood figures
whose values were worlds apartfrom the hero that he portrayed.
(32:04):
That's why, when his death in1959 was ruled suicide, many
raised their eyebrows and stillwonder today if it was actually
a murder that was covered up assuicide.
George Reeves was born GeorgeKiefer Brewer in Woolstock, iowa
, in January 1914.
The name George Reeves camefrom Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Later in his acting career, his mother, helen Basolo
divorced George's father, a mannamed Carl Brewer, soon after
(32:49):
he was born, or like brewery, ifyou say it too many times you
said it great, okay, so carlbrewer was his father I don't
think you have to say his nameagain, because he's out of the
picture pretty quickly all right, so they were divorced.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
soon after george was born, george's mom remarried
another man, frank Frank Basolo,and they told George that he
was his real father.
Now, after 15 years of marriage, helen decided to divorce Frank
.
When they were officiallyseparated, george was away
visiting relatives.
Instead of telling George theywere divorcing, she told him
(33:32):
that he had committed suicide.
That is horrible, isn't thatawful you could?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
of all the things I just so you lie to your son
about who his birth father is.
And then this other guy.
And then also too, that meansthen did.
Did Frank not want to seeGeorge ever again, because you
can't see him?
If he thinks that you're dead,you're dead right, I would, oh,
(34:02):
George.
Isn't that so sad?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
I'd probably be like watching that child from a
distance, or like slipping notesinto their unzipped backpack or
something like trying to catchhim somehow.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Because you can never see him.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You've raised him from a baby, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Assuming that he cared.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I mean, he may not have been someone Maybe most
people have at least a littlebit of a heart, you know, I
think it'd have to be an extremecase but you'd have to be very
much a psychopath, but yeah.
Also, I don't know, was it likethe shame of having a second
(34:42):
divorce that she like didn'twant to tell him and George
would eventually find out thetruth about his real father,
carl Brewer.
George is quoted as saying inthe New York Sun from 1943, it
was during spring housecleaning,with everything all turned up,
that I came across a picture ofa good-looking guy, a big fellow
(35:03):
, and idly asked who that was.
Mother said oh, that's yourfather.
And then stopped dead when sherealized what she'd said.
George moved with his family toPasadena when he was a young
boy.
This is where he trained forhis acting career and started
boxing as a teenager.
He was very talented and heeven competed in the 1932
(35:26):
Olympics.
George could also sing and playguitar, so he just had all of
these natural talents.
I always think that's so amazingbecause I'm not anywhere near
that talented.
A notable milestone in hisacting career was in 1939.
He was cast as one of ScarlettO'Hara's suitors in Gone with
(35:47):
the Wind.
He would later serve in WorldWar II, and initially he kept
his acting career private andperformed standard duties like
other soldiers.
But one of the men saw him in apicture and found out he was
given special duty work as anactor, which required him to
perform in a show at night, butthis was more of a punishment,
(36:10):
really than anything, because hewas required to do this on top
of all of his other typicalduties.
Ultimately, though, he had themilitary decide which one they
wanted him to do, because it wastoo strenuous to do both.
So good for him.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
My body spoke up for himself.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, george married another stage actor in 1940
named Eleanor Needles, but themarriage didn't last.
Pay in an entertainment careeris far from predictable and they
had a lot of issues with money.
After 10 years of marriage,eleanor left him for someone
more financially secure and henever spoke to her again.
(36:48):
In an interview she gave afterhis death, she had nothing but
positive things to say and feltbadly about how she had left the
marriage.
That's also, first of all, bigmistake, girl, but I'm glad that
she made it, because youdeserve better than that when
the role for Superman in the newtelevision series Adventures of
(37:10):
Superman opened up, georgecould not have been more perfect
for it.
Adventures of Superman openedup.
George could not have been moreperfect for it.
He was good looking, over sixfeet tall and had a muscular
build from years of judo andwrestling.
George was not excited for therole, but he needed the money,
so he took it.
The series, though, was asuccess, running from 1952
(37:31):
through 1958 in 21 countries,and had an audience of 35
million people.
The emperor of Japan even wroteto tell him how much he enjoyed
the show.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's so interesting .
You know, we take it forgranted that because they got
the role and they generallywanted to be an actor that
that's the role that they wanted.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And not just the one that they took yeah or had to
take yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, Because I mean acting roles are incredibly
diverse.
If you think about, it's notthe same to be like a comedy
actor versus an actor in like akid's film or a horror movie.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
These are very distinctly different types of
jobs In a quote he gave to TVRadio Life, george said Our idea
is to give the children goodentertainment without all the
guts and blood and gore.
We think the series shouldteach them something too.
That's why I decided to do thisIn Superman.
We're all concerned with givingkids the right kind of show.
(38:34):
We don't go for too muchviolence.
Once for a big fight scene wehad several of the top wrestlers
in town do the big brawl.
It was considered too rough bythe sponsors and producers so it
was toned down.
Our writers and sponsors havechildren and they are all very
careful about doing things onthe show that will have no
adverse effects on the youngaudience.
(38:56):
We even try in our scripts togive gentle messages of
tolerance and to stress that aman's color and race and
religious beliefs should berespected.
Oh, how things have changed.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I know that sounds like such a, he sounds like such
a nice guy and that was a nicehe does yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
George would participate in a lot of public
appearances as Superman duringthe series and after the series
ended, including at children'shospitals and orphanages.
Despite all of the praise andadmirable qualities of the show,
George did not enjoy the work.
It was strenuous and involvedjumping off of ladders, out of
windows, things like that.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I feel like Tom Cruise would have been perfect
in that role because he does allhis crazy stunts because he
doesn't age Hold on 1952, he wasborn, so he's like 37, 38
playing this role, doing allthese things.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
That's really impressive for tom cruise,
because he's older than that nono, or for george.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I'm like it is impressive, tom cruise does a
lot more and he's way older than37, 38 when tom cruise did this
role, he's actually like ahundred.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
He's probably going to look just as good.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I know it would be believable, Like Tom Cruise did
this role.
So that would make him likelike a hundred and a vampire or
something.
No, I'm serious.
I think that guy drinks theblood of children and one day
we're gonna have to talk abouthe does not drink the blood of
children yes, he does.
I would like to make acorrection he does not in fact
(40:50):
drink.
That would actually make him111 years.
I'm sorry, I just I can't letbad math slide.
Yeah, it's okay.
(41:14):
Okay, go ahead.
I promise no more bloodysyringes.
It's warm now.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Okay, yeah, take it all out.
Back to George.
George wanted more seriousadult roles and felt trapped in
a children's show Another aspectof the job that was really
difficult.
Even off screen, peopleexpected him to be perfect.
When he got into a car accident, one of the headlines read
Superman is hurt like othermortals.
(41:40):
Privately, george enjoyedpartying, but there was still
this expectation that he wouldbe straight laced in public.
Honestly, I feel like that'skind of unfair, because you're
not the same person as yourcharacter.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
No, I know that's so true, but unfortunately too,
sometimes the audience justcan't, they can't forgive
Separate yeah, can't separate it, and I think people are afraid
then, if they cast them incertain roles, they won't be as
believable and they won't get asmuch of a turnout, which is
actually.
I mean, I don't agree with it,but it's definitely true, like
(42:15):
wasn't it when we talked aboutwhat was it, sunny and Cher, how
they had to keep livingtogether, even though they were
divorced because the studio waslike you have to keep up this,
like image people have boughtinto this myth of sun and water
Right the
Speaker 2 (42:29):
two of you.
Yeah, and they were miserableWell, supposedly miserable like
that, living in separate wings,and all of that In 1958, either
after or as the Superman TVseries was ending.
George met and would later getengaged to Lenore Lemon.
George met and would later getengaged to Lenore Lemon.
(42:50):
Lenore was from New York andwas well known in quote New York
cafe society circles.
So basically she was a partygirl.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
New York cafe society circles.
That is hilarious.
I wonder who came up with that?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I don't know.
She was a former actress buthad not worked for several years
.
By the time she met George shehad been married twice before,
including to a Vanderbilt heir,so I guess she kind of did.
You know pretty well forherself.
She also had a spicy sideallegedly the only woman thrown
out of a certain establishmentfor getting into a fistfight.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Well, I like that she stands up for herself and maybe
I don't know if you'll like herso much.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Later, george and Lenore, despite being engaged,
were known to have a rockyrelationship.
The same week that George died,in June 1959, they had planned
to get married in Tijuana.
George's life in general wasreally difficult at this time.
After the Superman series endedin the year prior, he found it
really hard to get another joband it seemed to have typecast
(43:51):
him, which, you know, narrowedhis opportunities.
On the evening of June 16th 1959, George and Lenore went out
with Richard Condon, a writerworking on a piece about George
Reeves.
It was reported that George andLenore were overheard arguing
at dinner.
Afterward they went back toGeorge's house in Benedict
(44:12):
Canyon.
Benedict Canyon is aneighborhood tucked away in
Beverly Hills in the SantaMonica Mountains.
It's a secluded neighborhoodwith winding roads where
Hollywood's elite live.
George's house is modestcompared to some of the other
estates in the area and it wasrumored that his house was
actually bought for him byanother woman, but we'll get to
(44:33):
that in just a minute.
Ooh, plot thickens.
They had a party that night atthe house and, according to
guests, george was in a reallybad mood.
He went up to bed aroundmidnight but then came down
later to complain about thenoise.
He made himself another drinkbefore going back up to bed
around 2 am.
According to a piece publishedin the Los Angeles Times the day
(44:55):
after his death, lenore toldguests he's going to shoot
himself.
They then heard a noise inGeorge's room and Lenore said
see, he's opening the drawer toget the gun.
Then they heard a shot and shesaid see, there, I told you he
shot himself.
One of their neighbors, williamBliss, went upstairs to find
(45:16):
George lying naked partway onthe bed and a nine millimeter
Luger pistol at his feet.
There was one single fatalwound at his temple, and then
nobody calls the police forabout 30 to 40 minutes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Okay, there's a lot of problems here, right.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Who says.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
that's not even with a lot of alcohol.
It's not normal to say, oh yeah, my fiance is going to go, he's
going to go commit suicide.
What yeah, he's probably goingto go shoot himself right now.
No, no, nothing about this isokay.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
If you did in fact know that is horribly.
There's so much wrong with iton so many levels, but it's
insensitive, it's irresponsible,it's like do you not care about
this person at?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
all I know and a lot of these cases, I always think
we don't really know thesepeople, we only have accounts of
them, right.
But there are certain thingsthat you read or you hear about
where it's like yeah, that'spretty, I don't really need a
backstory on that.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
When they go upstairs and inspect the scene, they
find a single bullet casingbeneath his body, which suggests
he was probably sitting on theedge of the bed and then fell
backwards onto the casing.
One bullet was found in theceiling, which was determined to
(46:45):
be the fatal bullet, but therewere two more bullets that were
found on the floor.
Lenore told police she had beenplaying with the gun previously
and that she was the one thataccidentally fired those bullets
.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Okay, lenore, are we okay here?
Why are we playing with?
How does one play with a gunone and then fire not just one
but two bullets and then putsaid gun away where the fiance
that you're so flip couldpotentially commit suicide.
You know, you just put it backwhere you could access it.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's so many things wrong here she told
police that george had beendepressed, indicating that like
that would be his motive forcommitting suicide.
She also leaves town the nextday and doesn't attend the
funeral.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Well, you never know how somebody's going to deal
with grief.
That's true.
You add all those other thingsin.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Each time I was reading about this and something
new happened.
Something else happened, leah,have you seen that SNL skit Red
Flag.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Oh my gosh.
Yes For those of you who don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It's a commercial for a perfume and it's like she
walks in the room and turnseverybody's head and then she's
like a society girl, a cafesociety girl.
When she walks up to you andwhispers in your ear and you ask
(48:20):
her what do you do?
And she says I'm a dancer.
And then it's like in thebackground, it's like red flag,
oh, yeah, that's not fair, buteach thing that she says is just
more and more ridiculous andkind of like over the top and by
the end it gets like reallygoofy.
But it just made me think ofthat.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Red flag perfume is made for this girl.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yes, everything that Lenore does, or at least that we
have an account of it'squestionable.
Yeah, everyone, even his mom,makes all these questionable
decisions and lies and whateveraround him Only a cursory
autopsy was initially performedat the funeral home, ruling
(49:07):
George's death a suicide.
His mother, helen, insisted ona more thorough examination by
the Los Angeles County Morgue.
Toxicology showed his bloodalcohol level was 0.27, which is
over three times the legaldriving limit.
He also had painkillers in hissystem, prescribed after a
recent car accident that lefthim with a severe concussion.
(49:30):
And there actually is somethingcalled post-concussive
depression.
So there's, a possibility,because those two things are
linked.
Maybe he was depressed, hecouldn't get another job, he's a
struggling actor.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
His fiance is acting like she is, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
While skull fracture patterns suggested a
self-inflicted wound, nogunpowder residue was found at
the bullet's entry point at histemple, which was unusual, and
that makes it makes me wonder ata minimum, could somebody have
been standing somewhere else andshot him?
Speaker 1 (50:07):
This reminds me of oh how funny.
It was the same episode wherewe talked about Sonny and Cher
at the Owlwood estate, theDoheny case, where it was
thought to be a murder-suicide,where, oh, ed Doheny, I think so
.
They thought that because therewas no gun residue, it was
(50:29):
suspicious.
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
But wasn't it because he pushed the gun so far up to
his head?
They think maybe it wentinternally.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
That was.
The theory is that he mighthave just pushed it and so maybe
because he pushed it so hardinto his temple and maybe that's
how they explained this herecard into his temple and maybe
that's how they explained thishere.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Maybe Today, residue testing would be performed on
George's hands and everyone's atthe party, but that type of
analysis didn't exist back thenbecause they didn't have the
technology for it.
And the gun?
You're thinking maybe there'sgoing to be fingerprints on the
gun?
The gun was recently oiled andso no fingerprints were found on
it, and I didn't even know thatthat was a thing, that you
(51:13):
could oil your gun.
Number one, and number two,that maybe you wouldn't find
fingerprints because of that.
I mean maybe it would make iteasier to wipe them off too.
I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah, there's a lot of.
I can see why this still feelsunresolved.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yes, the county again ruled George's death a suicide.
But his mother was still notsatisfied.
She hired her own privatedetective and a third autopsy
(51:53):
was performed that also ruledthe death a suicide.
Still not convinced, Helenwould not cremate his body until
three years after his death,which was shortly before her own
.
Helen did have reasons to besuspicious of the circumstances
surrounding George's death.
In addition to the details ofthe night of his death and
subsequent investigation notquite adding up, there were
other gaps.
She had never met George'sfiancee, Lenore, and she didn't
(52:13):
even know about the weddingbeing scheduled just days after
George's death.
Lenore thought she knew aboutit because George's mom had sent
her engagement ring to George.
Helen said George had calledher to ask her to send it, but
only told her that he would tellher sometime about it.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Then again, how great was his relationship with his
mom, who's lied about not justone, but two of his fathers.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Very true, like maybe they're a bit strained and
maybe he doesn't quite trust her.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah Right, understandably yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Also, there is a third-hand account from William
Bliss, the neighbor that foundGeorge, that Lenore told
everyone to say she wasdownstairs when George died and
she wasn't.
My other question is did theyhear two other gunshots, like
all the people that were in thehouse, or did they only hear the
(53:12):
one?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, that's a good question, because it's one thing
to ask someone to say you weresomewhere else when you weren't.
Because I do honestly think insome of these cases it's just
human nature, even if theydidn't commit the crime.
It's self-preservation.
It's just human nature, even ifthey didn't commit the crime,
it's self-preservation.
Sometimes they'll say, justbecause it doesn't look as bad.
And let's face it, usually it'syour significant other is the
(53:36):
first person they're alwaysgoing to look at because
statistically it is that person.
Yeah, but asking people to lieabout three gunshots, though
that's.
I know they were all drunk, butthat's like how do you miss
three separate?
Even if you don't count allthree, you at least know there's
more than one, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Then again, Lenore was not the only love interest
in George's life with apotential motive for murder.
So here's another little twist.
Prior to meeting Lenore, Georgehad been involved in an ongoing
affair with a woman named ToniMannix since the early 1950s.
Toni was an actress and dancer.
(54:18):
Red flag.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
I love dancers.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Not a red flag.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Well, in this case, I have a feeling there's a lot
more other red flags.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
There's a lot of red flags in general in his life.
Unfortunately, she and Georgewere seen in public all of the
time acting like a couple,despite the fact that she was
the wife of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayerexecutive Eddie Mannix, and you
know the iconic symbol with theroaring lion in front of the
films.
That's an MGM film, right it'sstill around today, gone through
(54:52):
ownership and structuralchanges over the years, but
through the 1950s it was thedominant motion picture studio
in Hollywood.
Okay, getting back to Eddie andTony, Eddie didn't really care
about Tony and George's ongoingaffair because he had his own
girlfriend on the side yeah, itsounds like yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
I don't understand why these people even bother
getting married.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
I don't know or why stay married, like if you're not
happy.
But maybe they like a certainlifestyle, they like the.
I would say they like the imagethat they put out there, but
clearly they're being seenaround town with their other
people.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
That doesn't make sense.
It's like and they have so muchmoney, so I know it's kind of
it's a pain legally.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well and time consuming, I guess, but I don't
understand and I don'tunderstand.
There are so many cases when Iwas looking through and I don't
understand.
There are so many cases when Iwas looking through.
There are just a lot of casestoo, unfortunately, where, like,
women stay and I have to remindmyself they didn't have a lot
of options to make a living wageotherwise.
(56:00):
That's true, yeah.
And the cases with the womenthat stay, with the Hollywood
star for the money I guess I'mmore of a Beyonce, all my women
who are independent.
Throw your hands up at me.
I just don't get whatever, butit's so messy.
(56:20):
It's like whatever you guyswant to do, have open
relationships, obviously, youguys all know about it, but I
don't understand why you wouldcomplicate things further with
that, right?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah, in Hollywood, eddie was known as a fixer,
meaning he can make theunpleasant stories about an
entertainer go away, so itdoesn't tarnish the reputation
of the studio.
The movie Hail Caesar, releasedin 2016, is a fictional story
that follows a day in the lifeof Eddie Mannix, played by Josh
Brolin, where he runs aroundcovering up scandals.
(56:48):
Gosh, when George starteddating Lenore, this did not go
over well with Tony.
She was very possessive ofGeorge, and one source said that
he had to get a restrainingorder on her.
George was getting harassingphone calls a few months prior
to his death also, and thesewere attributed to Tony, but
(57:10):
nobody ever proved itdefinitively.
One source said they were justlike hang up calls.
They were all traced to payphones.
When George died, though, sheinherited $50,000, which was the
bulk of his estate.
Rumors circulated that she hadhired a hitman to kill him, but
nothing was ever proven.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
I don't know if money , though, would be a motive for
either of these women.
I imagine, with his fiancebeing married to a former
Vanderbilt, she probably had herown-.
Speaker 2 (57:41):
Like alimony or something I don't know.
And again with some people,it's too much never enough.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
And then this woman had her own, obviously like you
know her husband and theirmarriage and their money and
yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
I also could see a potential motive, though, if his
fiance found out, though, thatthe will was still under Tony,
yeah, yeah, which is kind of alittle bit odd to me too, that
like he named her the inheritorand not his fiance.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Sometimes people don't bother to change things,
but I, yeah, I don't know, thiswhole situation is a little bit.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
I have questions.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
About a lot of things .
I really could see every singlescenario being potentially true
.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yep Jack Larson, who played cub reporter Jimmy Olsen
alongside Reeves in Adventuresof Superman, recalled George
lamenting he wished he knewabout his adult fans that he'd
quote feel better and quote behappy knowing people of all ages
watch the show.
It's tragically ironic.
(58:54):
While children dreamed of beingSuperman, the man who brought
their hero to life didn't reallywant the part.
With everyone connected to thecase now deceased, the truth
behind George Reeves' deathremains one of Hollywood's
unsolved mysteries.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
I was like it's funny when it came out or I don't
know yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
It was a while ago.
I was very young, but I waslike oh, that is true.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Even heroes have a right to bleed, and dream.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I think that's in the lyric.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
It's just so sad, you'd think, just because of the
role and the superhero aspectof it all, but it's never that
simple.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, the glamour, the fame, the everything that
comes with it is not always whatit's cracked up to be.
Stay away from the dark side,because if you don't, you may
find yourself at a party withsome of these red flag people.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Noted.
So next time, in case you'rewondering, are you guys ever
moving away from Los Angeles?
Yes, we are.
We have a few more episodesleft in the season.
Then we will move to our nextcity, which is one that is near
and dear to our hearts, butwe're not going to tell you what
it is quite yet.
But for the next episode, we'reworking on getting a special
(01:00:16):
guest to come in and talk aboutbecause everything's just been
so dark in LA in general latelyan uplifting story about a man
named Clifford Clinton who did alot of really great things in
his life and just seemed like anice person and also fought
corruption and became a targetbecause of it.
So I'm working on getting aspecial guest that knows a lot
(01:00:38):
about that individual.
We also have one coming up onthe Watts riots and the Zoot
Suit riots, which, by the way,in case you were wondering, the
Zoot Suits riots actuallyhappened.
It was not just a song sung bya very inappropriately named
band.
So those two at least we mightget like a couple more in.
(01:01:01):
Like, I really want to talkabout the curse of poltergeist,
but maybe we'll finally start aPatreon and throw it up there.
Anyway, lots of good stuffcoming your way and we'll see
you soon.
Bye, thank you.
Hi friends, this is Leah and this is April.
Today it's easier than ever tomake and publish a podcast, but
that also means it's never beenharder to stand out, especially
as an indie podcast.
We absolutely love creatingDark City episodes for you, so
to make sure the show is asuccess, we need your help.
Easy ways to do it.
(00:26):
Number one rate and review theshow wherever you get your
podcasts.
Number two click that sharebutton and send a link to
friends and family you thinkmight also like the show.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And number three follow us on social media at
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That's Dark City Pod onInstagram, facebook Threads and
TikTok.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So remember one rate and review, two, share with
family and friends, and threefollow us on social media.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you so much, and we got rain in LA today.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yay, actually, we started getting it a couple of
(01:13):
days ago, which is good.
The good news is we got rain inLA today, Yay, Actually, we
started getting it a couple ofdays ago which is good, but it
desperately, desperately needsit and I think we are slowly
moving through the stages ofgrief.
(01:43):
I didn't say this on the lastepisode when I did a rundown of
the fires, but I personally hadI can't remember if I told you
this, but I had these weirdcoincidences with fire in the
days leading up to the actualfire.
So the book I was reading, Ihad just started reading, was
fire this time because we weregoing to cover the race riots.
We pushed that episode out alittle bit farther, but the book
(02:04):
was called Fire this time.
And then a friend of mine sentme a case that was potentially
it was a fire, that waspotentially an arson, because
now I'm the repository for allthings macabre.
And then I was reading the bookthe Shining.
I was reading the book theShining.
(02:29):
I got to the end like the daybefore or two days before the
fires and the whole hotel blowsup in the book.
I don't remember it didn't dothat in the movie, I don't
remember.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I feel like Dr Sleep is more fresh in my mind.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I haven't read or seen that movie yet I have not
read it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I gave my husband Dr Sleep one year for Christmas.
The movie is very good.
Okay, I think it is fairlyclose to the book.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Okay, all I remember is, of course, jack Nicholson's
frozen face from the end, and Idon't remember.
Oh yeah, I know it's morbid,but it blows up in the book.
And then also, when I was goingthrough old pictures I came
across way back when we wereresearching the Griffith Park
episode I went to the museum inthe park had an exhibit on
(03:18):
Griffith Park and then just abunch of other exhibits related
to LA, and they have thesereally cool boards where it's
like art you can be a part of Ithink is the idea so they'll put
a question on the board and youcan fill out your answer on a
post-it and put it up there, andthe picture I came across was
it was an exhibit on fire and itwas when you think of fire.
(03:40):
what do you think of when youthink of fire?
I wrote down death and birth.
It was just so weird comingacross all of those things.
Yeah, yeah.
And before we dive into theepisode itself, I just have to
say the Shining was amazing.
His work is so much more thanjust haunted hotels and people
that get buried in cemeteriesand come back as bloodthirsty
(04:03):
zombies and killer clowns.
Right, it was deeplypsychologically complex get
buried in cemeteries and comeback, as you know, bloodthirsty
zombies and killer clowns.
Right, it was deeplypsychologically complex, and I
think I've said this on thepodcast before, but I find the
living so much more terrifyingat times than the dead.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to Dr Sleep, but I don't
really read a lot of StephenKing because they're so heavy
(04:23):
and especially when the fireshappened, I had Dr.
Sleep queued up to start and Ithought I'm going to just pause
on that for a little while.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You need a little bit lighter reading to counteract
that heaviness of the day-to-day.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Exactly the episode today.
We're going to go back to oldHollywood, because I realized
we're covering LA and we haven'treally covered that much of
Hollywood.
There are so many cases that wecould have picked.
The ones we picked for todayrepresent Hollywood's darker
side during two distinct eras.
(05:00):
One is the case of Roscoe, orhe was called Fatty Arbuckle,
from the 1920s silent film era,and then the George Reeves case.
George Reeves played Supermanin the 1950s that's the
television age as it was gettinggoing and both deaths are
really interesting because,despite being so heavily
(05:20):
investigated and having officialdeterminations heavily
investigated and having officialdeterminations they're still.
They still, even afterresearching, they still feel
unresolved.
There's still questions whereit's like I don't know
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I'll start with thecase of Roscoe Arbuckle, as I
mentioned, also known morecommonly as Fatty Arbuckle, and
(05:42):
I'm going to note this upfront.
He really did not like beingcalled Fatty and I don't like
that name, regardless of whetheror not he did this crime, I
just don't like it.
So I'm going to call him Roscoethroughout this episode, but
Roscoe is Fatty Arbuckle Forthose of you that's probably all
of you If you know of him.
That's how you know him.
(06:02):
I had listened to Morbid thebest podcast ever.
It's okay if you leave us forthat A few episodes, but Ash led
that case.
She's one of the two co-hostsbut she had noted that up front
that he really did not like thename.
He was a bigger guy, which iswhy he was called that, though
(06:22):
he was also really nimble andgraceful, because he was a
trained dancer on top of beingan actor, which we'll get into
that in a second here.
Roscoe was born Roscoe ConklingArbuckle on March 24th 1887.
Roscoe was, I saw in one source, he's one of eight kids.
Then I read in another sourcethat there were eight kids
(06:43):
before him.
All I know is that sounds likesix or seven.
Yeah, sorry, oh, my gosh Backthen I mean women had so many
babies.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I mean, you kind of didn't really have a choice back
then.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So yeah, I know, and then also too, like people could
die from what's now vaccinepreventable diseases.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, or you neverknow.
Roscoe, when he was bornsources waver between okay,
imagine this anyways, but in1921, he weighed anywhere
between 13 to 16 pounds.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Did his mother have gestational diabetes?
You get really babies.
When you, I had gestationaldiabetes the first time.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, my gosh, I don't know, but it did permanently.
It permanently gave her body alot of problems, which is
understandable.
But also the rest of his familywere just.
They were normal weight andbecause of that his father
insisted he could not be his kidand treated him terrible
because of that.
So that is just soheartbreaking.
(07:52):
We'll get into what he wasaccused of.
If he was really not guilty, mygosh, this poor guy suffered.
But if he really was guilty,then I still think that's not
right and probably, having thatchildhood, certainly that's not
going to put you on a goodtrajectory in life.
He started his career as anentertainer very early.
(08:14):
He was on stage by the time hewas eight years old and he came
of age, touring the country,acting and dancing According to
age touring the country, actingand dancing.
According to smithsonianmagazine, quote the experience
taught arbuckle how to play anykind of scene or situation, from
rube to aristocrat, rural,rural rural.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One of the last names in mine is brewer, and when I
was reading carl brewer I waslike carl burr oh my gosh, oh
god what movie is that?
Is that black sheep when he'slike rural or rural?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I totally don't know.
Or was it a saturday night?
live skit okay right in we'llfigure it out after this episode
.
I'm sorry, that's okay.
So he could play any kind ofscene or situation, from Rube to
aristocrat, rural slapstick tomelodrama.
He knew what made a joke work,what endeared characters to
(09:13):
theater goers and how far hecould push a gag.
Like the best screen comedians,arbuckle knew how to make
anyone laugh in a manner soeffortless that seemed magical,
which is a really cool gift tohave.
Absolutely In his career, hewould not just star in a wide
range of films, he would alsobuild his own company, oversee
(09:34):
his scripts and become adirector.
At one point he was paid morethan any other actor in
Hollywood.
In 1921, the same year that thescandal we're about to talk
about went down, he signed adeal with Paramount Pictures
worth what is about $16 milliontoday.
Later in his career, hedeveloped this attraction to a
(09:55):
Hollywood star by the name ofVirginia Rappe.
Virginia was born on July 7,1891 in Chicago, and she did not
have an easy childhood either.
Her mom passed away when shewas 11.
She never knew her father, andafter her mom passed away she
was raised by her grandmother.
(10:15):
But despite all of thosehardships, she started a
modeling career early, at theage of 14.
And she was one of the firstwomen to actually make a living
from this new profession.
Eventually she became a silentfilm actress and also a fashion
designer.
She was very feminist and aheadof her time and I think later
(10:36):
people had a problem with thatand it made it so much worse for
her in the press, unfortunately.
She posed in men's clothing asa way of asking for equal
clothing rights with men.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
We're more modern.
I don't see anything wrong withthat, but I'm sure it was
scandalous back then.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So before I go into the scandalous event that is at
the center of this story, firstlet me just give you a picture
of 1920s Hollywood.
It was a center of extravaganceof 1920s Hollywood.
It was a center of extravagance, glamour and scandal.
The tragedy I'm about todescribe is one of the major
public scandals that got a lotof media and public attention
(11:12):
early in the industry, and it'sall happening in a broader
context.
There's prohibition.
It's the jazz age Also and thisis crazy to think of today
women were just getting theright to vote Crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I know, our brains are so small.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I mean, how many hundreds of thousands of years
have homo sapiens been?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
They just still haven't developed to the 1900s.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I know, I know, 300,000 years later, women
finally are determined to beable to be competent to vote.
So it's not surprising too,when I think of Virginia Rappe
and just how out there she waswith stuff that today is
completely not a big deal, butalso just her independence and
(12:02):
her strength.
I can see how later on, when weget into how the press handled
this whole scandal, how itreally just tore her apart and
it is really too bad because shewas gone at that point and she
couldn't even speak for herself.
The events at the center ofthis story occurred over Labor
(12:25):
Day weekend in 1921.
So Roscoe, along with a fewfriends, drove from Los Angeles
to San Francisco to throw aparty at the St Francis Hotel
and it sounded like your typicalProhibition-era party.
It's got the bootleg alcoholbeautiful women era party.
It's got like the bootlegalcohol, beautiful women.
I saw one picture on thewebsite.
(12:48):
All that's Interesting and it'sbasically like the furniture is
smashed up to the point whereit's not even recognizable.
I think Motley Crue had morerespect for their hotel room.
It was just insane on its own.
Roscoe's love interest, virginiaRapet, was also at the party on
September 5th, with a lot ofdrunkenness and debauchery.
(13:11):
The only thing that can reallybe said for certain was that
both Virginia and Roscoe were inthe same hotel room together at
one point, and when Roscoe leftthe room she was lying on the
bed in obvious distress andcrying in pain.
As to the specifics from there,I mean, we will probably never,
(13:31):
ever know the full story Now.
The pain Virginia wasexperiencing continued for three
days until finally she went tothe doctor, who originally
thought it was alcohol poisoningfrom the bootleg liquor.
But it wasn't alcohol poisoning.
It turned out that she hadperitonitis from a ruptured
(13:55):
bladder, and she ultimately diedon September 9th 1921 after
several days of suffering.
That sounds awful.
It sounds like one of the worstways you could possibly die
this type of infection.
It causes intense inflammation.
It makes your abdomen so tenderthat even if someone tries to
(14:16):
just slightly touch you, it'shorrible, horrible pain.
From what I understand, it'slike the worst stomach pain
you've ever had, multiplied bylike a thousand, and it also
causes severe nausea, which isthe symptoms that they saw,
which also is a symptom of beingincredibly drunk and
potentially having alcoholpoisoning.
(14:38):
But beyond that there's feverand then just an overwhelming
feeling of illness as theinfection spreads and your body
tries desperately to fight itoff.
The question is what caused theruptured bladder, and that
would be the central question inthis case.
Now, warning this is going tobe really, really rough.
(15:00):
One of the partygoers, maudeDelmont, reported to authorities
on September 9th that Roscoehad violently sexually assaulted
Virginia, and it was thecrushing force of his weight
that caused her bladder torupture.
In a blog post on the SanFrancisco Bar Association
website, maude is quoted assaying I could hear Virginia
(15:23):
kicking and screaming violentlyand I had to kick and batter the
door before Mr Arbuckle wouldlet me in.
I looked at the bed.
There was Virginia, helplessand ravaged.
When Virginia kept screaming inagony at what Mr Arbuckle had
done, he turned to me and saidshut her up or I'll throw her
out a window.
He then went back to hisdrunken party and danced while
(15:46):
Virginia lay dying.
Also and this is deeplydisturbing and beyond
infuriating another party guest,al Semnicker this guy he is one
of Roscoe's friends andVirginia's manager Now.
He claimed that Roscoe not onlyraped Virginia but also used a
piece of ice to rape her, andnot clear it was either roscoe
(16:11):
or al.
He was joking about this thenext day with some of the men at
the party.
Needless to say, she was insuch bad company at the time she
died outside of it just being aterrible death it was.
It was not among good people.
Plot spoiler Roscoe does go totrial and we'll get to that in a
(16:33):
second here.
But later Al recanted this incourt and he said that the
prosecution had pressured him tosay that.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh yeah, that is like a bombshell revelation.
It just makes you wonder howmuch of any of that story is
true.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Well, that's the thing is that the trials and
their trials, as in plural.
You have so many cases whereeven Roscoe goes back and forth
on what actually happened.
Even from there, they're all sodrunk.
So, even some of the finedetails, they do actually kind
of matter in terms of timing andyou just never know.
(17:12):
The whole thing was just adrunken mess, no matter how you
slice or dice it.
Now Roscoe was charged andultimately tried three times for
the crime.
It sounds like okay, so if whatMaude Delmont had said to the
police was true and it wassubstantiated, which we know was
(17:33):
not, or people went back andforth so many times on it.
First and foremost, though,Maude had serious credibility
issues, so she had an extensiverecord of extortion and fraud,
specifically with blackmailingwealthy male celebrities who
attended parties with variouswomen where there would be
(17:56):
claims of rape or wrongdoing, sothat they could extort money
and things from them.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I mean this just sends up like your antenna is up
for BS.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Exactly.
And not only that, her doingthat in and of itself is just a
terrible, terrible thing to do,but if what happened to Virginia
is actually really true, you'reessentially like the boy who
cried wolf Nobody gonna believeyou.
Yeah, and understandably so, infact.
So her stories were soinconsistent and included such
(18:32):
blatant lies that ultimately,she was completely omitted from
the witness list for all threetrials.
They wouldn't even put her onthe stand which is like a
horrible tragedy.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
If your friend is trying to speak out against
something that really did happen, she's a horrible person, I
know.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
It's just bad.
Here's the thing, too, withMaude.
She sent a telegram to twoacquaintances a couple of days
before Virginia died.
That said quote we have RoscoeArbuckle in a hole here.
Chance to make money out of him, though the rape could still
have happened.
It could have.
Yeah, right, and we'll talkabout this.
(19:11):
It is actually still possiblethat both things are true, that
he did do this to her, but thatalso.
This horrible person is alsotrying to use the tragedy to
make money.
This horrible person is alsotrying to use the tragedy to
make money.
In the preliminary hearingbefore the first trial, the
presiding judge, judge SylvainMorris, decided to hold Roscoe
(19:32):
on manslaughter charges, eventhough he said the evidence
against him was weak and helikely didn't commit rape.
He said that the trial wasabout broader social morals
rather than just the defendant'sactions.
I disagree.
You can't put a person on trialfor broader social morals.
(19:52):
That's like, sir, are you okay?
Did you miss judging 101?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
He's just making an example out of him.
For what?
For everyone else in society tobe afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I don't even feel like you need to know what the
law says.
I feel like this should just bea very logical thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, this has nothing to do with his case.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Exactly, and also it pretty much guaranteed a second
trial because of fair dueprocess of it all.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
According to the case presented by the prosecutors in
the first trial, during thiswild party, Roscoe dragged
Virginia into room 1219 at thehotel.
In the trial, the prosecutionmade the case that Roscoe
wouldn't even answer the dooruntil finally one of the party
goers kicked on it when Roscoeopened it up.
This is so chilling.
If he really did do this, hewas wearing a bathrobe and one
(20:45):
of Virginia's hats if he didthose things and then was
wearing her stuff in a mockingway.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's not funny.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's very likely.
When he did open the door,people saw her in pain and it's
like what are you doing?
Just fooling around while she'sright In so much pain and so
much pain?
According to the prosecution'scase, Virginia was on the bed
when this happened, with herclothes ripped and clearly in
distress, and said that Roscoedid this to her.
(21:19):
Roscoe told Ma Delmont toremove Virginia from the room
and then he just headed out andcontinued to party.
But when the defense questionedthe prosecution's witnesses,
there were a lot ofinconsistencies, as I mentioned,
and that created a lot of doubt.
Also, the treating physiciansvaried in their official
diagnosis.
(21:40):
While the official cause ofdeath was peritonitis from a
ruptured bladder, there wereconflicting medical opinions at
the time about what actuallycaused the bladder rupture.
Some medical experts suggestedit could have been due to a
chronic condition or previousinfection rather than trauma.
At that party the defensepresented evidence that
indicated she had complicationsfrom gonorrhea and abortion and
(22:04):
also that she had chronicinflammation.
One of the nurses who treatedVirginia also testified that
Virginia told her that she hadbeen having internal pain for
six weeks prior to the party.
Roscoe's version of events theychanged a bit trial to trial,
but more or less the story hetold is he found her sick in the
(22:26):
bathroom and carried her to abed.
He assumed it was just too muchalcohol.
He asked someone at the partyto help and also asked for the
hotel's physician to check her.
The first trial ends up in adeadlocked jury with 11 to 1
voting to acquit the secondtrial, also deadlocked, only
this time the split was 9 to 3in favor of conviction.
(22:49):
The key difference seems to bebetween the first and second
trial is that Roscoe was not puton the stand to testify in the
second trial, so whatever he hadto say or his performance in
the first was really influential.
Then again, it's like are youlistening to the testimony of
(23:10):
someone who is very clearlycommunicating in a way that
shows they're not guilty?
Or is this just a trained actor?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Either way, you're fighting for your life, whether
you did it or not, probably.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
He is an actor by trade.
So, of course, when yes, ifthis is like the difference
between freedom or not, ofcourse I would put on the best
act possible.
I wouldn't have done any ofthese things and be in that.
In the third trial, roscoe wasput on the stand and the defense
strengthened theirpresentations, doubling down on
(23:46):
the damaging detail onVirginia's background and
medical history.
Also, there is a ton of badpress saying she's an amateur
call girl and she dabbled in sexwork and had five abortions.
I mean, it's the classic victimshame, yeah, victim shame Along
with, too, though.
Fair enough, though.
(24:06):
If he didn't do it, you wouldwant to know if there were
certain not to mock her, but ifthey did create certain
conditions.
That would be the real reasonwhy she died.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You'd want his defense attorney You'd want
supporting evidence?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, but it was so much more.
It was a smear campaign.
It wasn't just that.
Of course it was.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Any woman that doesn't live that prim and
proper life back then is goingto get annihilated in the media.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And in the courtroom, yeah, even today, still today,
yeah.
And in the courtroom, yeah,even today Still today.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, maybe not quite as bad, but yeah, it's still
there.
Also, they got severalwitnesses to admit that the DA
threatened them to testify, solike Al, for example, was one.
And then not only was Roscoeacquitted, the jury went so far
as to issue a written publicapology.
Acquitted, the jury went so faras to issue a written public
apology.
Wow.
But I still don't think this isso straightforward, because
(24:59):
there's a few other details.
When they did the autopsy, theyfound bruising on her legs and
they also found bruising lookedlike it's like fingers digging
into your arm, it was claimed.
Well, it was because when shewas so sick, they tried to pick
her up and put her in the tubwhen she was sick.
(25:21):
But then my question is is whyin the world would you, why
would you pick someone up thatway when she put your hands
underneath them?
That doesn't seem logical.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean a lot of times when people help somebody
up, that's like elderly they'llgrab their arm.
I've had it many times and thenyou're like you're going to
dislocate their shoulder orsomething but like that's how
people do it all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh my gosh, yeah, no, so I could.
I mean, I guess in that case,and I could see how that just it
means, yeah, they were, theywere not being safe about how
they moved, or very obviouslylogical.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, I've seen it in public and at work Also the
doctors that performed theautopsy.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
They both noted internal injuries, but there was
significant disagreement amongmedical experts about what
caused them.
And I don't know Interestingamong medical experts about what
caused them and I don't knowInteresting Exactly the nature
of what exactly defines internalinjuries.
And even if I did, I wouldn'thave the medical knowledge to be
able to say here's thepossibilities of what that could
be, of which rape is just one.
(26:26):
The defense brought in theirown medical experts, from what I
understand, who argued thatRappay's internal injuries were
consistent with her history ofchronic cystitis and other
pre-existing medical conditions.
Then also, too, another factorto consider the medical
examination capabilities I'dimagine in the 1920s were
probably fairly basic comparedto modern standards.
(26:49):
Yeah, I would imagine so.
So doctors could observeobvious external trauma and
maybe some internal injuriesthrough physical examination,
but they didn't have a lot ofthe diagnostic tools that we
have today.
You definitely can't do DNAtesting.
Right, there's no rape kits aswe know of them today and also
really limited abilities to evendocument injuries with
(27:12):
precision.
So again it all goes back towe'll just never really know.
This trial marked one ofHollywood's first major
controversies.
It's a case that demonstratesthe power of the press.
Even if a person is acquittednot once, not twice, but three
times in the court of law, theycan still be successfully
convicted in the court of publicopinion.
(27:33):
There were examples of likepreachers and editorialists
condemning Roscoe and, in abroader sense, hollywood and its
movies.
I mean, it really was.
It wasn't just putting him ontrial, it was putting the whole
industry on trial.
Many felt that Roscoe needed tobe tried and convicted of
(27:53):
something just to fight back forwhat was the perceived
immorality of the Jazz.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Age, which again like kind of goes along with what
the judge was trying to do inthat first trial.
I know.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Only the judge should absolutely know better.
If there is any winner in thisstory, it's, of course, the
press.
Like we saw with the murder ofElizabethizabeth short, the
three-parter we just finished,crime sells newspapers like
crazy.
William randolph hurst saidthat this story sold more copies
(28:24):
than the sinking of thelusitania, which was a huge
story.
Random note because when I readthat I was like oh, that
reminds me of just to lighten itup for a second here Eric
Larson, you know, who wroteDevil in the White City?
Yes, yeah.
So he wrote this book calledDead Wake and it was so good and
that was on the Lusitania.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The Lusitania yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, by the way, I never knew and never knew.
I wanted to know so much aboutU-boats and how miserable it
must have been to be in one ofthose.
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
They're so tiny, oh, I would get claustrophobic.
I can't.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I could be on a submarine.
So this story outpaces theLusitania and, when you think of
it, all the ingredients thatwould grab attention.
You've got a famous actorpreviously seen as upstanding.
You've got this bold woman thatsociety is truly not ready for,
that dies a tragic and brutaldeath.
Sexual deviance, jazz ageimmorality all set around
(29:25):
Hollywood.
It had all of the ingredients.
Roscoe Arbuckle, regardless ofhis innocence or guilt, lost
everything.
His name would forever belinked to sexual assault and
murder.
And in the court of publicopinion, guilt lost everything.
His name would forever belinked to sexual assault and
murder.
And in the court of publicopinion he was guilty.
The studios blacklisted him inan effort to clean up their
debauched image and the trialsbankrupted him.
(29:46):
His legal bill was 700,000,which, adjusted for inflation,
is around 11 million today.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
That is a lot of money, holy cow, I know.
Even if you had a decent amountof money to start with.
That's a lot in legal fees.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I cannot appraise what is a fair legal fee in 1920
, but I'm like did they actuallybribe witnesses?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's so much money, that is so much money.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Years and years later , he would get another chance at
a Hollywood career.
He was about to sign on to anddo some really important work,
but then he died in his sleep,and that was the end this whole
story is tragic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It really is.
If he didn't do it and he gotblacklisted and then he finally
gets that job in the end.
If he did do it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It is too bad that he didn't get jail time, but his
life was pretty destroyed, whichgoes to too is like.
I mean, at the end of it it'slike, even if you but back to,
if you're not guilty, though,you're going to a prison of some
sort, of some sort yeah, yeah,you're going to pay for it one
way or another.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And he paid monetarily and with his
livelihood, right, right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So that is the tragic case of Virginia Rappe and
Roscoe Arbuckle, fast forwardinga few more decades to the 1950s
, the television age.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That's where we're going to pick up the mysterious
death of Superman star, georgeReeves.
The iconic Superman characterin comics, tv series and movies
embodied perfection withstrength, justice and morality.
Winning the Superman role intelevision's first adaptation of
(31:41):
the comic book hero in 1952seemed like the golden ticket.
But playing the perfect personon screen is not at all the
blessing, it might seem.
You might be surprised to hearthat to him it felt like more of
a curse.
Behind the scenes, george wasentangled with Hollywood figures
whose values were worlds apartfrom the hero that he portrayed.
(32:04):
That's why, when his death in1959 was ruled suicide, many
raised their eyebrows and stillwonder today if it was actually
a murder that was covered up assuicide.
George Reeves was born GeorgeKiefer Brewer in Woolstock, iowa
, in January 1914.
The name George Reeves camefrom Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Later in his acting career, his mother, helen Basolo
divorced George's father, a mannamed Carl Brewer, soon after
(32:49):
he was born, or like brewery, ifyou say it too many times you
said it great, okay, so carlbrewer was his father I don't
think you have to say his nameagain, because he's out of the
picture pretty quickly all right, so they were divorced.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
soon after george was born, george's mom remarried
another man, frank Frank Basolo,and they told George that he
was his real father.
Now, after 15 years of marriage, helen decided to divorce Frank
.
When they were officiallyseparated, george was away
visiting relatives.
Instead of telling George theywere divorcing, she told him
(33:32):
that he had committed suicide.
That is horrible, isn't thatawful you could?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
of all the things I just so you lie to your son
about who his birth father is.
And then this other guy.
And then also too, that meansthen did.
Did Frank not want to seeGeorge ever again, because you
can't see him?
If he thinks that you're dead,you're dead right, I would, oh,
(34:02):
George.
Isn't that so sad?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
I'd probably be like watching that child from a
distance, or like slipping notesinto their unzipped backpack or
something like trying to catchhim somehow.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Because you can never see him.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You've raised him from a baby, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Assuming that he cared.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I mean, he may not have been someone Maybe most
people have at least a littlebit of a heart, you know, I
think it'd have to be an extremecase but you'd have to be very
much a psychopath, but yeah.
Also, I don't know, was it likethe shame of having a second
(34:42):
divorce that she like didn'twant to tell him and George
would eventually find out thetruth about his real father,
carl Brewer.
George is quoted as saying inthe New York Sun from 1943, it
was during spring housecleaning,with everything all turned up,
that I came across a picture ofa good-looking guy, a big fellow
(35:03):
, and idly asked who that was.
Mother said oh, that's yourfather.
And then stopped dead when sherealized what she'd said.
George moved with his family toPasadena when he was a young
boy.
This is where he trained forhis acting career and started
boxing as a teenager.
He was very talented and heeven competed in the 1932
(35:26):
Olympics.
George could also sing and playguitar, so he just had all of
these natural talents.
I always think that's so amazingbecause I'm not anywhere near
that talented.
A notable milestone in hisacting career was in 1939.
He was cast as one of ScarlettO'Hara's suitors in Gone with
(35:47):
the Wind.
He would later serve in WorldWar II, and initially he kept
his acting career private andperformed standard duties like
other soldiers.
But one of the men saw him in apicture and found out he was
given special duty work as anactor, which required him to
perform in a show at night, butthis was more of a punishment,
(36:10):
really than anything, because hewas required to do this on top
of all of his other typicalduties.
Ultimately, though, he had themilitary decide which one they
wanted him to do, because it wastoo strenuous to do both.
So good for him.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
My body spoke up for himself.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, george married another stage actor in 1940
named Eleanor Needles, but themarriage didn't last.
Pay in an entertainment careeris far from predictable and they
had a lot of issues with money.
After 10 years of marriage,eleanor left him for someone
more financially secure and henever spoke to her again.
(36:48):
In an interview she gave afterhis death, she had nothing but
positive things to say and feltbadly about how she had left the
marriage.
That's also, first of all, bigmistake, girl, but I'm glad that
she made it, because youdeserve better than that when
the role for Superman in the newtelevision series Adventures of
(37:10):
Superman opened up, georgecould not have been more perfect
for it.
Adventures of Superman openedup.
George could not have been moreperfect for it.
He was good looking, over sixfeet tall and had a muscular
build from years of judo andwrestling.
George was not excited for therole, but he needed the money,
so he took it.
The series, though, was asuccess, running from 1952
(37:31):
through 1958 in 21 countries,and had an audience of 35
million people.
The emperor of Japan even wroteto tell him how much he enjoyed
the show.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's so interesting .
You know, we take it forgranted that because they got
the role and they generallywanted to be an actor that
that's the role that they wanted.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And not just the one that they took yeah or had to
take yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, Because I mean acting roles are incredibly
diverse.
If you think about, it's notthe same to be like a comedy
actor versus an actor in like akid's film or a horror movie.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
These are very distinctly different types of
jobs In a quote he gave to TVRadio Life, george said Our idea
is to give the children goodentertainment without all the
guts and blood and gore.
We think the series shouldteach them something too.
That's why I decided to do thisIn Superman.
We're all concerned with givingkids the right kind of show.
(38:34):
We don't go for too muchviolence.
Once for a big fight scene wehad several of the top wrestlers
in town do the big brawl.
It was considered too rough bythe sponsors and producers so it
was toned down.
Our writers and sponsors havechildren and they are all very
careful about doing things onthe show that will have no
adverse effects on the youngaudience.
(38:56):
We even try in our scripts togive gentle messages of
tolerance and to stress that aman's color and race and
religious beliefs should berespected.
Oh, how things have changed.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I know that sounds like such a, he sounds like such
a nice guy and that was a nicehe does yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
George would participate in a lot of public
appearances as Superman duringthe series and after the series
ended, including at children'shospitals and orphanages.
Despite all of the praise andadmirable qualities of the show,
George did not enjoy the work.
It was strenuous and involvedjumping off of ladders, out of
windows, things like that.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I feel like Tom Cruise would have been perfect
in that role because he does allhis crazy stunts because he
doesn't age Hold on 1952, he wasborn, so he's like 37, 38
playing this role, doing allthese things.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
That's really impressive for tom cruise,
because he's older than that nono, or for george.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I'm like it is impressive, tom cruise does a
lot more and he's way older than37, 38 when tom cruise did this
role, he's actually like ahundred.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
He's probably going to look just as good.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I know it would be believable, Like Tom Cruise did
this role.
So that would make him likelike a hundred and a vampire or
something.
No, I'm serious.
I think that guy drinks theblood of children and one day
we're gonna have to talk abouthe does not drink the blood of
children yes, he does.
I would like to make acorrection he does not in fact
(40:50):
drink.
That would actually make him111 years.
I'm sorry, I just I can't letbad math slide.
Yeah, it's okay.
(41:14):
Okay, go ahead.
I promise no more bloodysyringes.
It's warm now.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Okay, yeah, take it all out.
Back to George.
George wanted more seriousadult roles and felt trapped in
a children's show Another aspectof the job that was really
difficult.
Even off screen, peopleexpected him to be perfect.
When he got into a car accident, one of the headlines read
Superman is hurt like othermortals.
(41:40):
Privately, george enjoyedpartying, but there was still
this expectation that he wouldbe straight laced in public.
Honestly, I feel like that'skind of unfair, because you're
not the same person as yourcharacter.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
No, I know that's so true, but unfortunately too,
sometimes the audience justcan't, they can't forgive
Separate yeah, can't separate it, and I think people are afraid
then, if they cast them incertain roles, they won't be as
believable and they won't get asmuch of a turnout, which is
actually.
I mean, I don't agree with it,but it's definitely true, like
(42:15):
wasn't it when we talked aboutwhat was it, sunny and Cher, how
they had to keep livingtogether, even though they were
divorced because the studio waslike you have to keep up this,
like image people have boughtinto this myth of sun and water
Right the
Speaker 2 (42:29):
two of you.
Yeah, and they were miserableWell, supposedly miserable like
that, living in separate wings,and all of that In 1958, either
after or as the Superman TVseries was ending.
George met and would later getengaged to Lenore Lemon.
George met and would later getengaged to Lenore Lemon.
(42:50):
Lenore was from New York andwas well known in quote New York
cafe society circles.
So basically she was a partygirl.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
New York cafe society circles.
That is hilarious.
I wonder who came up with that?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I don't know.
She was a former actress buthad not worked for several years
.
By the time she met George shehad been married twice before,
including to a Vanderbilt heir,so I guess she kind of did.
You know pretty well forherself.
She also had a spicy sideallegedly the only woman thrown
out of a certain establishmentfor getting into a fistfight.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Well, I like that she stands up for herself and maybe
I don't know if you'll like herso much.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Later, george and Lenore, despite being engaged,
were known to have a rockyrelationship.
The same week that George died,in June 1959, they had planned
to get married in Tijuana.
George's life in general wasreally difficult at this time.
After the Superman series endedin the year prior, he found it
really hard to get another joband it seemed to have typecast
(43:51):
him, which, you know, narrowedhis opportunities.
On the evening of June 16th 1959, George and Lenore went out
with Richard Condon, a writerworking on a piece about George
Reeves.
It was reported that George andLenore were overheard arguing
at dinner.
Afterward they went back toGeorge's house in Benedict
(44:12):
Canyon.
Benedict Canyon is aneighborhood tucked away in
Beverly Hills in the SantaMonica Mountains.
It's a secluded neighborhoodwith winding roads where
Hollywood's elite live.
George's house is modestcompared to some of the other
estates in the area and it wasrumored that his house was
actually bought for him byanother woman, but we'll get to
(44:33):
that in just a minute.
Ooh, plot thickens.
They had a party that night atthe house and, according to
guests, george was in a reallybad mood.
He went up to bed aroundmidnight but then came down
later to complain about thenoise.
He made himself another drinkbefore going back up to bed
around 2 am.
According to a piece publishedin the Los Angeles Times the day
(44:55):
after his death, lenore toldguests he's going to shoot
himself.
They then heard a noise inGeorge's room and Lenore said
see, he's opening the drawer toget the gun.
Then they heard a shot and shesaid see, there, I told you he
shot himself.
One of their neighbors, williamBliss, went upstairs to find
(45:16):
George lying naked partway onthe bed and a nine millimeter
Luger pistol at his feet.
There was one single fatalwound at his temple, and then
nobody calls the police forabout 30 to 40 minutes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Okay, there's a lot of problems here, right.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Who says.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
that's not even with a lot of alcohol.
It's not normal to say, oh yeah, my fiance is going to go, he's
going to go commit suicide.
What yeah, he's probably goingto go shoot himself right now.
No, no, nothing about this isokay.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
If you did in fact know that is horribly.
There's so much wrong with iton so many levels, but it's
insensitive, it's irresponsible,it's like do you not care about
this person at?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
all I know and a lot of these cases, I always think
we don't really know thesepeople, we only have accounts of
them, right.
But there are certain thingsthat you read or you hear about
where it's like yeah, that'spretty, I don't really need a
backstory on that.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
When they go upstairs and inspect the scene, they
find a single bullet casingbeneath his body, which suggests
he was probably sitting on theedge of the bed and then fell
backwards onto the casing.
One bullet was found in theceiling, which was determined to
(46:45):
be the fatal bullet, but therewere two more bullets that were
found on the floor.
Lenore told police she had beenplaying with the gun previously
and that she was the one thataccidentally fired those bullets
.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Okay, lenore, are we okay here?
Why are we playing with?
How does one play with a gunone and then fire not just one
but two bullets and then putsaid gun away where the fiance
that you're so flip couldpotentially commit suicide.
You know, you just put it backwhere you could access it.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's so many things wrong here she told
police that george had beendepressed, indicating that like
that would be his motive forcommitting suicide.
She also leaves town the nextday and doesn't attend the
funeral.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Well, you never know how somebody's going to deal
with grief.
That's true.
You add all those other thingsin.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Each time I was reading about this and something
new happened.
Something else happened, leah,have you seen that SNL skit Red
Flag.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Oh my gosh.
Yes For those of you who don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It's a commercial for a perfume and it's like she
walks in the room and turnseverybody's head and then she's
like a society girl, a cafesociety girl.
When she walks up to you andwhispers in your ear and you ask
(48:20):
her what do you do?
And she says I'm a dancer.
And then it's like in thebackground, it's like red flag,
oh, yeah, that's not fair, buteach thing that she says is just
more and more ridiculous andkind of like over the top and by
the end it gets like reallygoofy.
But it just made me think ofthat.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Red flag perfume is made for this girl.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yes, everything that Lenore does, or at least that we
have an account of it'squestionable.
Yeah, everyone, even his mom,makes all these questionable
decisions and lies and whateveraround him Only a cursory
autopsy was initially performedat the funeral home, ruling
(49:07):
George's death a suicide.
His mother, helen, insisted ona more thorough examination by
the Los Angeles County Morgue.
Toxicology showed his bloodalcohol level was 0.27, which is
over three times the legaldriving limit.
He also had painkillers in hissystem, prescribed after a
recent car accident that lefthim with a severe concussion.
(49:30):
And there actually is somethingcalled post-concussive
depression.
So there's, a possibility,because those two things are
linked.
Maybe he was depressed, hecouldn't get another job, he's a
struggling actor.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
His fiance is acting like she is, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
While skull fracture patterns suggested a
self-inflicted wound, nogunpowder residue was found at
the bullet's entry point at histemple, which was unusual, and
that makes it makes me wonder ata minimum, could somebody have
been standing somewhere else andshot him?
Speaker 1 (50:07):
This reminds me of oh how funny.
It was the same episode wherewe talked about Sonny and Cher
at the Owlwood estate, theDoheny case, where it was
thought to be a murder-suicide,where, oh, ed Doheny, I think so
.
They thought that because therewas no gun residue, it was
(50:29):
suspicious.
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
But wasn't it because he pushed the gun so far up to
his head?
They think maybe it wentinternally.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
That was.
The theory is that he mighthave just pushed it and so maybe
because he pushed it so hardinto his temple and maybe that's
how they explained this herecard into his temple and maybe
that's how they explained thishere.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Maybe Today, residue testing would be performed on
George's hands and everyone's atthe party, but that type of
analysis didn't exist back thenbecause they didn't have the
technology for it.
And the gun?
You're thinking maybe there'sgoing to be fingerprints on the
gun?
The gun was recently oiled andso no fingerprints were found on
it, and I didn't even know thatthat was a thing, that you
(51:13):
could oil your gun.
Number one, and number two,that maybe you wouldn't find
fingerprints because of that.
I mean maybe it would make iteasier to wipe them off too.
I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah, there's a lot of.
I can see why this still feelsunresolved.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yes, the county again ruled George's death a suicide.
But his mother was still notsatisfied.
She hired her own privatedetective and a third autopsy
(51:53):
was performed that also ruledthe death a suicide.
Still not convinced, Helenwould not cremate his body until
three years after his death,which was shortly before her own
.
Helen did have reasons to besuspicious of the circumstances
surrounding George's death.
In addition to the details ofthe night of his death and
subsequent investigation notquite adding up, there were
other gaps.
She had never met George'sfiancee, Lenore, and she didn't
(52:13):
even know about the weddingbeing scheduled just days after
George's death.
Lenore thought she knew aboutit because George's mom had sent
her engagement ring to George.
Helen said George had calledher to ask her to send it, but
only told her that he would tellher sometime about it.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Then again, how great was his relationship with his
mom, who's lied about not justone, but two of his fathers.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Very true, like maybe they're a bit strained and
maybe he doesn't quite trust her.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah Right, understandably yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Also, there is a third-hand account from William
Bliss, the neighbor that foundGeorge, that Lenore told
everyone to say she wasdownstairs when George died and
she wasn't.
My other question is did theyhear two other gunshots, like
all the people that were in thehouse, or did they only hear the
(53:12):
one?
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, that's a good question, because it's one thing
to ask someone to say you weresomewhere else when you weren't.
Because I do honestly think insome of these cases it's just
human nature, even if theydidn't commit the crime.
It's self-preservation.
It's just human nature, even ifthey didn't commit the crime,
it's self-preservation.
Sometimes they'll say, justbecause it doesn't look as bad.
And let's face it, usually it'syour significant other is the
(53:36):
first person they're alwaysgoing to look at because
statistically it is that person.
Yeah, but asking people to lieabout three gunshots, though
that's.
I know they were all drunk, butthat's like how do you miss
three separate?
Even if you don't count allthree, you at least know there's
more than one, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Then again, Lenore was not the only love interest
in George's life with apotential motive for murder.
So here's another little twist.
Prior to meeting Lenore, Georgehad been involved in an ongoing
affair with a woman named ToniMannix since the early 1950s.
Toni was an actress and dancer.
(54:18):
Red flag.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
I love dancers.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Not a red flag.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Well, in this case, I have a feeling there's a lot
more other red flags.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
There's a lot of red flags in general in his life.
Unfortunately, she and Georgewere seen in public all of the
time acting like a couple,despite the fact that she was
the wife of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayerexecutive Eddie Mannix, and you
know the iconic symbol with theroaring lion in front of the
films.
That's an MGM film, right it'sstill around today, gone through
(54:52):
ownership and structuralchanges over the years, but
through the 1950s it was thedominant motion picture studio
in Hollywood.
Okay, getting back to Eddie andTony, Eddie didn't really care
about Tony and George's ongoingaffair because he had his own
girlfriend on the side yeah, itsounds like yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
I don't understand why these people even bother
getting married.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
I don't know or why stay married, like if you're not
happy.
But maybe they like a certainlifestyle, they like the.
I would say they like the imagethat they put out there, but
clearly they're being seenaround town with their other
people.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
That doesn't make sense.
It's like and they have so muchmoney, so I know it's kind of
it's a pain legally.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well and time consuming, I guess, but I don't
understand and I don'tunderstand.
There are so many cases when Iwas looking through and I don't
understand.
There are so many cases when Iwas looking through.
There are just a lot of casestoo, unfortunately, where, like,
women stay and I have to remindmyself they didn't have a lot
of options to make a living wageotherwise.
(56:00):
That's true, yeah.
And the cases with the womenthat stay, with the Hollywood
star for the money I guess I'mmore of a Beyonce, all my women
who are independent.
Throw your hands up at me.
I just don't get whatever, butit's so messy.
(56:20):
It's like whatever you guyswant to do, have open
relationships, obviously, youguys all know about it, but I
don't understand why you wouldcomplicate things further with
that, right?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah, in Hollywood, eddie was known as a fixer,
meaning he can make theunpleasant stories about an
entertainer go away, so itdoesn't tarnish the reputation
of the studio.
The movie Hail Caesar, releasedin 2016, is a fictional story
that follows a day in the lifeof Eddie Mannix, played by Josh
Brolin, where he runs aroundcovering up scandals.
(56:48):
Gosh, when George starteddating Lenore, this did not go
over well with Tony.
She was very possessive ofGeorge, and one source said that
he had to get a restrainingorder on her.
George was getting harassingphone calls a few months prior
to his death also, and thesewere attributed to Tony, but
(57:10):
nobody ever proved itdefinitively.
One source said they were justlike hang up calls.
They were all traced to payphones.
When George died, though, sheinherited $50,000, which was the
bulk of his estate.
Rumors circulated that she hadhired a hitman to kill him, but
nothing was ever proven.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
I don't know if money , though, would be a motive for
either of these women.
I imagine, with his fiancebeing married to a former
Vanderbilt, she probably had herown-.
Speaker 2 (57:41):
Like alimony or something I don't know.
And again with some people,it's too much never enough.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
And then this woman had her own, obviously like you
know her husband and theirmarriage and their money and
yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
I also could see a potential motive, though, if his
fiance found out, though, thatthe will was still under Tony,
yeah, yeah, which is kind of alittle bit odd to me too, that
like he named her the inheritorand not his fiance.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Sometimes people don't bother to change things,
but I, yeah, I don't know, thiswhole situation is a little bit.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
I have questions.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
About a lot of things .
I really could see every singlescenario being potentially true
.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yep Jack Larson, who played cub reporter Jimmy Olsen
alongside Reeves in Adventuresof Superman, recalled George
lamenting he wished he knewabout his adult fans that he'd
quote feel better and quote behappy knowing people of all ages
watch the show.
It's tragically ironic.
(58:54):
While children dreamed of beingSuperman, the man who brought
their hero to life didn't reallywant the part.
With everyone connected to thecase now deceased, the truth
behind George Reeves' deathremains one of Hollywood's
unsolved mysteries.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
I was like it's funny when it came out or I don't
know yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
It was a while ago.
I was very young, but I waslike oh, that is true.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Even heroes have a right to bleed, and dream.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I think that's in the lyric.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
It's just so sad, you'd think, just because of the
role and the superhero aspectof it all, but it's never that
simple.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, the glamour, the fame, the everything that
comes with it is not always whatit's cracked up to be.
Stay away from the dark side,because if you don't, you may
find yourself at a party withsome of these red flag people.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Noted.
So next time, in case you'rewondering, are you guys ever
moving away from Los Angeles?
Yes, we are.
We have a few more episodesleft in the season.
Then we will move to our nextcity, which is one that is near
and dear to our hearts, butwe're not going to tell you what
it is quite yet.
But for the next episode, we'reworking on getting a special
(01:00:16):
guest to come in and talk aboutbecause everything's just been
so dark in LA in general latelyan uplifting story about a man
named Clifford Clinton who did alot of really great things in
his life and just seemed like anice person and also fought
corruption and became a targetbecause of it.
So I'm working on getting aspecial guest that knows a lot
(01:00:38):
about that individual.
We also have one coming up onthe Watts riots and the Zoot
Suit riots, which, by the way,in case you were wondering, the
Zoot Suits riots actuallyhappened.
It was not just a song sung bya very inappropriately named
band.
So those two at least we mightget like a couple more in.
(01:01:01):
Like, I really want to talkabout the curse of poltergeist,
but maybe we'll finally start aPatreon and throw it up there.
Anyway, lots of good stuffcoming your way and we'll see
you soon.
Bye, thank you.
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