Episode 65: Quiet Ambition w/ Patrick Kamba

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello, hello, welcome in. If you're here listening to this
podcast, that means you're destined for something great.
And we both know it to be true. So without further ado, welcome
to the Dark Matter Podcast. Hello, hello and welcome back to

(00:36):
the Dark Matter Podcast, a spacefor conscious creators.
Today I brought on another guestin Patrick Camba.
Patrick is an executive leader in the Pharmaceutical industry,
author of Quiet Ambition and mentor who's passionate about
purposeful balanced growth. With an engineering background

(00:57):
and an MBA from the University of Liverpool, he's LED global
teams in vaccine development andtrain hundreds of project
managers. A single father of three
daughters, Patrick helps professionals replace hustle and
self doubt with clarity and calmconfidence, showing that true
ambition isn't about being louder, but about leading with

(01:19):
intention, awareness and authenticity.
I'm so excited for this conversation with you, Patrick,
and of course, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, it's a great pleasure.
So I want to stick in here. Why is it so?
I like to start with the why? Why is it so a much of A passion
for you to really help, you know, replace that hustle and

(01:41):
the self dealt with clarity and calm confidence.
What does that mean to you? So it's a passion for me at
first because I lived it. And I would even say I lived it
badly because I was more, you know, a performer.
And that is also the way I was introducing myself.
I was used to say my name is Patrick Number and I am a
performer. Wow, look at me.

(02:03):
OK, so around 15 years ago, I was project manager, I was
targeting to be promoted to be senior project manager.
I was taking all the boxes, but then the the promotion did not
come. Now I started to be, you know,
frustrated, disappointed, started to complain all over the
the place that OK, that's unfair.

(02:25):
Why am I not promoted? And I started also to see other
people going to human resource to lobby to discuss and complain
about why don't they get big bonus, you know, with over
performance, over achievement. Then I started to feel that it
wasn't fully right to me becauseI said, look at those people.

(02:46):
They, you know, they start to goto HR asking for urgent meeting,
complaining. And I said I don't want to be
like this. No, no, please.
So I stepped back and to be clear, I still went to HR, but
to understand not to lobby, what's the process, what is
missing for me to be promoted, what's going on?

(03:06):
What should I do maybe differently?
And then start to ask and listen.
And actually people explained. And that's the first magic.
If you come with, let's say goodintention, meaning you want to
understand what's going on, not challenge what's going on.
People talk to you and people even tell you the secrets on
what's happening. Then I discovered that there

(03:29):
might be another way to get promoted, to be validated,
recognizing and etcetera. And several years ago, as I
started to understand the value of doing this, I build on it.
I use it several times and it led me to be in a very big
company, PPD executive director,while initially I applied to be

(03:51):
a senior director. All of this made me actually
write a book and I like to say Iwish I knew this or a young
Patrick gave me this book 1015 years ago.
That's how we came. So I love this, right?
And it's such a key. And I want to really just, you
know, make sure that people don't skip that the idea of

(04:14):
asking questions to understand, not to challenge or not to, you
know, put someone on the other side, just really try to
understand, you know, what you can do or what is going on or
from their own point of view, you know what it is.
And far too often, you know, a lot of conflict, I feel like
conflict really stems from a misunderstanding, right?
And if people are on the same page and it's clearly

(04:36):
communicated, then I feel like we would have a lot less
conflict because people really want to help other people.
They don't really want to hurt or, you know, be malicious.
And so if you really come from that, you know, place of
understanding, I feel like you really could, you know, bridge a
lot of those relationships and and really be more progressive.
Now you mentioned in here the book Quiet ambition.

(04:59):
You mentioned that this is a book you wish you were able to
give or receive as a younger Patrick.
What in the book really makes you feel like at a younger age
you would have been able to. I guess the first question is,
if you got the book from a younger age, what would have
what would it have done for you?OK, at first you would have

(05:19):
helped me to start by, I like tocall it the the .0 meaning start
by yourself, explore yourself. What do you want?
Because yes, I mean, I was project manager, wanted to be
senior project manager. It's just my ego.
Don't look for anything great the next century.
No, no, it's just my ego becauseI wanted to be senior project

(05:40):
manager and I wanted one day to be a director in a pharma
vaccine company. That was my ego.
So by exploring this, actually Istarted to put my ego outside.
Once I was, you know, promoted from project manager to senior
project manager and said one dayit would be great to have a team
that I can share my values, madethem progress, grow, etcetera.

(06:04):
And then it's not the same because again, at certain moment
there was some changes have beenpromoted director of project
management, but it was going with the flow.
I didn't have to push thousands of C DS, do lobby, etcetera.
People felt that I was intentional with what I was
doing. I was there to set up processes

(06:27):
as project manager, contribute to the development of the
others. And yes, Patrick is known for
people management and just let it go more or less relaxed.
And that is what my book is talking about from the first
pages and chapters. It's about exercises,
discovering who you are, what doyou want, asking you basic

(06:47):
questions, who are the role model or the people you admire,
not on TV, but in your day-to-day.
And by doing this, you can approach maybe those people that
ask, OK, I like what you're doing, what happened?
And then you start to build evenalliances, you ask help for
mentors and you broaden your your network.

(07:10):
Right. So from what I hear there, it's
kind of just understanding that the ego is not your amigo,
right? Your ego is kind of what's there
to kind of it kind of helps, butit also can be to your own
detriment because maybe we chasethe titles or we chase the
income, but it doesn't really fulfill you internally.

(07:31):
Would you agree with that? Like your ego kind of helps in
some ways or do you think your ego doesn't help at all?
Like for people that are wrestling with that?
Because I know that this is a common thing right now.
If there's a lot of coaches or business owners, I know a lot of
my audience are either aspiring or thriving coaches and a lot of
people are really aiming to hit these $100,000 months or

(07:52):
generate, you know, millions of dollars with their business or
usually chasing that thing. Is that that ego or is it coming
from a place of fulfillment? Ego is one of my best enemies
really, because I like to say that I don't have any ego.
Of course that's not true. I cannot say it's a 0.
But as an engineer, you know, I like scales.

(08:13):
So I would say my ego is more 30than 90 if the scale is 100 at
the maximum. But what I mean here is that a
bit of ego is fine, but when your ego is driving you, you are
becoming vulnerable because thenyou will be in conversation
where you have to prove, demonstrate.

(08:35):
And then at the end you give thepower to the others because they
will tell you, yeah, but if you can demonstrate this, you will
get XYZ. And then actually you are a
slave. I'm sorry.
And what I'm looking for is freedom.
So as a coach, I explained to mycoaches and mentees, what do you
want to do and why? Because I totally understand
some people may want to be at 100K per month or a big vice

(09:00):
president, etcetera. Because of what?
Because of family society, because maybe they have been
migrants and they would be the first to be at that level, OK.
Or just for to satisfy them thatis fine, that's first.
But then what is behind? Because if they really start
this objective, would they set up a new objective?

(09:22):
If the answer is yes, it means that this 100K is not real
objective. That's something else.
And that is where also I'm surprising some of my people
when I say my objectives are, I reached them out 10 years ago
being a director in a farmer company.
It's done. I am beyond this now.
I'm relaxed and I'm enjoying andI'm still progressing.

(09:45):
You know, now I am executive director, still progressing
quite differently, because I enjoy, because at the end we
should not forget we have to enjoy our lives.
So this is a good question. I feel like based on what you're
saying here, this is a good question.
How can leaders cultivate calm, confidence and purpose in a

(10:06):
world that, you know, rewards loud ambition loud, you know,
rewards the eagle rewards provenand you know, tactics and
strategies and and all of this like, how can you really
cultivate that? Yeah.
So again, it's about starting bythemselves in the sense that if
they enter the room or the meeting room, they should not

(10:29):
target to be the loudest, havingall the answers and being able
to show how great they are. That's the common misconception
of of leaders. Actually.
They may even sometime to just shut up and let people talk to
each other and find them a solution by themselves.
That is what I like to do from time to time.
And actually, it's not coming from me.

(10:49):
I have a former senior vice president at the IGST who
explained one day that the best way to support your team is just
some time to step back and let them move forward.
Even if there are no copyright, it's not me.
Well, I love that because so often, you know, when people are
looking for answers outside of themselves and then they get the

(11:09):
answer, it's not really, it's kind of like, you know, the the
idea and the story that what's more important, the the start
and the end or the journey, right?
And I feel like when you just give people the answers, it
negates the internal realizations in the aha moments
that they need to go through in order to really understand how

(11:31):
to fix it and then what to move forward with it.
Right. So I, I love this.
And I and I want to ask one morequestion based on this too,
because, OK, so it's one thing to, you know, come from within
and, you know, start at zero andnot be that person.
But what if you have been that person?
What if that is what you know, you know, it doesn't feel great,

(11:52):
but this is what they're really wrestling with.
They see it, they feel that theywork themselves up.
A couple people on the podcast, and I've been even getting
reached out to from people on the podcast and they say, you
know, they've got the great job,they've got the nice dreamy
office. They have, you know, the nice
salary that they've wanted, but they don't feel good.
And it's it's always driven by that ego and now trying to come

(12:13):
away from it, it almost feels like they're digressing.
So what would you say to someonethat feels like if they stop
acting that way, then they're going to they're going to lose
everything that they built? So then one of my other big
connection is of course fear, because at the end that is what
it is. And that's why some people may

(12:33):
decide to not change job or to not even take one week retreat
to think about their life and their career, etcetera.
Because there is this pressure of if I stop now, what would be
my life? What about my family?
I'm used to earn 100K per month.Now if I get 60, how will I make
it? OK, actually you can make it.

(12:55):
Remember you want to borrow me 100K per month as a reminder.
And then at the end, what do youwant?
Do you want this? Or then go to a shrink and
whatever function, whatever roleto just discuss one or a week
how unhappy you are. Let me tell you a very personal
stories that happened actually not to me, but to my father

(13:19):
around let's say, 30 years ago. He was at the hospital, he was
sick. He had a replacement as a
General practitioner, OK. And after one week, this guy was
leaving because my father was expected to come back to his
practice the week after I said, oh, thank you for everything.
Thank you for this week. Thank you for this job, taking

(13:40):
care of the patient, etcetera. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Thank you. You're welcome.
But, you know, being a doctor was not my purpose.
What? What?
No, my father forced me to do itbecause he was an MD 2 Then it
was a shock to me because it wasthe 1/20/21.
Like, come on, he's an MD. He's not happy to be an MDI

(14:00):
mean. Everybody would love to be a
doctor, you know what I mean? He's a dream job, this kind of
thing. I mean, pilot of aircraft,
doctor, this kind of job. I mean, everybody dreamed about
it at certain moments. And then I understood that he
was not happy. So do we really want to spend
6070, eighty years on earth not being happy?

(14:22):
I'm sorry. Maybe because those people have
100K per month, they may have even more the luxury to say,
let's pause, let's reorientate our lives, maybe let's invest
some money to be sure that we see this month we don't have
this money and we can do something else.
But there are options. But again, it's step by step.

(14:43):
And when you're talking about stopping being in this
behaviour, I may rather say evolve because we just take the
time and it is fine if you don'tput the pressure on stopping
this behaviour transforming in one day to an extreme point.
I like to say that babies, when they were born, they could not

(15:05):
speak, they could not walk. And then people are shocked and
say, yes, you say you can't change.
Come on, baby. Can't talk.
Can walk. In one year, they can walk.
In two years, they can speak. So what's the problem?
Do they see them giving up? No.
They get angry because they cannot walk because you don't
understand them. But they never stop.

(15:28):
They are the most resilient, right?
So that kind of takes me to another point of this and, and
I, you know, I'm really excited that the conversation is going
in this direction because again,your, your book that you just
came out with. And I do want to speak a little
bit more on that too. The quiet ambition piece.
You mentioned the babies. And we know that a baby is the

(15:49):
most impressionable from ages zero to seven.
You know, all of their beliefs, all their habits, all of their
traits, their mannerisms come from all those around them,
right. And so sometimes later on in
life, when they end up in a position where they're not
fulfilled, a lot of that can come from, you know, the
impressionable times, right, Where, you know, again, they're
looking at it. And even for me and my story,

(16:11):
the the folks that know my story, a lot of my relationships
were very hit and miss because my parents were divorced and
they always fought and there wascheating going on and these
sorts of things. So then in my head, I always
believed that that was going to be the case for all of my
relationships. And then that was the case until
I took a step back and I realized that I didn't have to

(16:32):
live my life according to the thoughts and the way that things
are, right? Because it's, it's projection.
That's kind of what it feels like.
It's projection, right? So how would you help someone
really understand that maybe what they're going through like
you kind of mentioned here starting from zero, you also
mentioned the fear based, you know, thinking, but how would

(16:54):
you really get through to someone that maybe doesn't see
those pieces as such influentialpieces to their current
situation, their current life, their current role, etcetera?
So one point I, I, I talk about in my book is the role of
mentorship and networking. Because I like to say as good as
we are, we are not exceptional in the sense that there are

(17:15):
other people like us on earth and probably around us, meaning
that they may have gone to the same struggle maybe two years
ago or they are much more advanced than us.
So sometimes just taking the time to recognise those people
and just talk to them. And yes, being vulnerable,
asking for help and building alliances.

(17:38):
We underestimate the power of alliances and network, but
again, not network to have a list of people you can call and
that that you will just exploit and use is building
relationship. And maybe one day we need them
and they may need you before, bythe way, it's about just giving

(17:59):
them when they need you about resume your city, introducing
you to people, etcetera. And maybe one day they will help
you. But of of course, you have to
ask them and help them with yourheart just being intentional.
You just help them because I discovered the power of my
network only after during COVID,let's say I lost my job in 40

(18:25):
minutes and I asked for help to a few people.
They transformed my life and andagain, I had been building this
network doing like 10-15 years earlier.
And I never thought that I woulduse my network one day,
actually, because I just did it.And then I discovered that
actually there are more people than you believe that are ready

(18:46):
to help you. That's a big lesson of life, by
the way. Yes, it really is.
And I love that you've mentionedthat because again, it's it's
what what stops a lot of us from, you know, reaching out.
It's pride, it's ego, it's the fear, right?
It's it's a lot of our own internal narratives that could
stop us from, you know, receiving even sometimes there's

(19:09):
blocks from people even receiving, right?
Like they don't even want to receive help, help and gifts and
things like that. And so I love that you've
suggested this and really brought to light that there are
a lot of people that are ready to help you if you're willing to
ask, right? And I feel like that's such a
powerful thing. And you've mentioned here,
you've been building this audience.
And when you're saying building an audience just for people who

(19:31):
may not understand, like, what does that look like?
Is that, you know, going to conferences and, you know, in
connecting with people there, isit joining like groups and like,
what? What sort of things were you
doing to build this network thatultimately ended up helping you
transform your life? So I would say that the easiest
of course is going to conferences, then interact with

(19:52):
people and of course making somefollow up after the congresses.
That's one. But it's also colleagues from
the day-to-day while you are working.
As simple as that. And it's about asking how they
are doing. Maybe you will hear that.
OK, my son had this and this. Yeah, no worries.
I have an old bicycle. Maybe I can give it to you.

(20:13):
It's stupid, I know. But on the opposite, when you
are a father or mother and you have your son or your daughter
who need a bicycle for tomorrow,that's, you know, that cannot be
more important than this. So just to give a basic example,
another day just offering a coffee to somebody and take 5
minutes to discuss about I don'tknow what.
So it's about caring about the others, really thinking how they

(20:36):
are doing. You see that specific people are
distressed. OK, go and talk to them.
I feel you are stressed. Do you want to have a 5 minute
break? Oh no, I have too much.
OK, maybe next week we can go and have a drink.
Oh, very basic. End of the day you send a text
message. I felt you were stressed.
I hope it is fine. Let me know if I can help you
because you should be bad if I could not see you tomorrow

(20:59):
because you are too tired. OK, that's simple.
And it's, it's such simple, practical things, right?
And, and anyone can apply them literally today.
And I love that it's just so simple.
Like it doesn't have to be this thing.
There isn't a formula for it. Like it's just be a good human
being and reach out to the person.
Now here's a question to that because I know there are a lot

(21:20):
of people that understand the law of reciprocity and giving
and receiving and such. Now, at what point is it?
Do you feel that you're just because I know some people, this
is a question that I kind of have in my head from before.
What would you say to the personthat has been giving for a lot a
long time? They've been giving for months,
maybe even years, and they haven't really received yet in

(21:45):
the way that we traditionally think about it, right?
What would you say to that person who's kind of getting
burnt out or tired or exhausted from just being that person for
other people and not having someone care about them the way
that they care about other people?
So there are several angles. First is that the assumption may
be that if the they give to ABCDpeople, ABCD people will give

(22:10):
back. That's not true.
You'll give in One Direction. You may receive from another
direction. Because if you give to somebody,
this person will have to give you back.
No, no, no, to me it's just a chain, OK?
Because the people who helped memay not be the people that have
helped the most, OK, but they are in the same mindset.

(22:32):
They're just giving. That's one.
The second is potentially maybe to filter the people to who they
give without counting in a way, a few ways to say I cannot help
you now, I'm too busy, can you call me back in two days or can
you come back to me etcetera andsee how people react if they are
disappointed? Firstly, the etcetera, it's mean

(22:54):
that it's for granted, so maybe indeed they should stop.
Another way is those people to who they normally give, take 5
minutes to share good news. This is my special weapon, this
one. Share good news with people if
they react by yelling, shouting,screaming, big smile, opening

(23:17):
eyes, oh, thank you others. Wait, what's happening to you?
You are running a marathon, New York, you will go to Kenya for a
safari. Those people are great.
Keep them. If they change the topic or they
say something like yes, of course you are divorced, you are
part time custody. You have the time to do this.
Oh, you have the answer. OK, so that's a basic way again

(23:42):
that people underestimate. Like, how can I find alliances?
How can I find people who will protect me and help me grow by
applying those basic examples? Believe me, this will be clear,
but they may be surprised. So I love this and there's such
a fantastic answer. So you're saying one, the people

(24:04):
that you give to may not be the people that you receive to
receive back from. So just keep that in mind and
know that it's going to come from somewhere else.
And I absolutely love that. Second thing, putting filters
on. So just a little bit of
resistance just to see, you know, if it's something they can
solve or if they're going to be upset about it.
And then the last thing, when you share good news with them,
how they light up or the opposite, like these are really

(24:27):
key things. Again, simple, but like really,
really golden Nuggets that someone could apply today in
their life to really move thingsin the right direction.
Patrick, this is incredible. I wanted to talk about one more
thing here. Well, I know your book as well,
so I want to ask a question on that.
But I also see that you recentlyspoke at the Women Leaders
Conference in Miami on strategicvisibility for women.

(24:51):
And this is where you explored how professionals can grow their
impact without compromising authenticity.
So what are some of the things that you've really picked up
from there, maybe that you mentioned in the speech as well,
especially around like how self-awareness and balanced
ambition can help, You know, both just women and men lead
with clarity and purpose. So thank you.

(25:13):
Yes, I really enjoy being in Miami.
By the way, it was my first weekover there.
It was in September. So indeed, women are sometimes
expected to play by the rule. They don't like to play out that
is not aligned with them, like showing your friend hustle and
etcetera. And on the opposite, being quiet

(25:34):
and strategically visible doesn't mean you are silent
because I insisted during this Congress.
Quiet doesn't mean invisible doesn't mean silent.
Consider rather this as whispering.
OK, some basic example again. If you are even introvert, you
may not be comfortable talking to in 30 minutes of the meeting.

(25:58):
Fine, but then you have to be strategically visible.
Maybe you speak beginning to open the conversation to
summarize why we are here. Or you wrap up or you
paraphrase, or you just decide to volunteer to take some of the
actions at the end of the meeting.
What will happen? Or we'll enjoy working with you
because you can paraphrase, you can ask questions, you can

(26:21):
identify your few risk and propose mitigation.
That is how people will appreciate why you are not
talking during 30 minutes and not potentially take the
microphone off, let's say your boss or anybody.
So it's about being strategic, being there at the right moment,
moment and not being everywhere,anywhere, anytime.

(26:44):
Yeah, I see. Again, these are gems, you know,
for the audience listening, for you guys listening.
I hope you're taking notes on this one because I feel like
there's just so many practical things that, again, they can
just shift, you know, the perspective even just a little
bit. And this can really change in
the world, can really open up for you.
Opportunities can really open upfor you here.
So it's really just learning howto maybe play your own skill set

(27:07):
and whether it's, you know, summarizing it at the end,
adding that actionable steps like allowing people to play
their strengths and then findingyour own strength quietly, not
silent, not being invisible, notwithering away and stepping back
and, you know, playing this card, but knowing how you can,
you know, add value to a situation without over
exceeding. So I absolutely love this.

(27:29):
And so I wanted to bring the book back up quite ambition.
So who is this book for? And in reading it, I know I
mentioned at that at the beginning, you know, what would
have what would younger Patrick have received from it?
But now, fast forwarding to today, who should get this book
and what are they going to learnby going through the Quiet

(27:50):
Ambition book that you've written?
So this book could be for any organization, in particular
human resources departments for sure, because they may have to
fuel with the new pipeline of ofleaders preparing them.
So that's why, of course, but then is any professional who is
ambitious? And to me, ambition is just this

(28:11):
inner fire that is moving us forward.
So you can be a secretary, you can be a sales representative,
but you can also be an executivedirector.
Being ambitious because you justwant to move forward.
Moving forward may not automatically means more money.
It can be just make the wall tower OK.
You take your family, you disappear in one year, you want

(28:33):
to travel all around the world. You may decide to enter big
business schools, you may just decide to open a store in your
street, whatever. It's just ambition.
Because at the end of the day, Ilike to say when you are
ambitious, adversity comes anyway, always, always, always.

(28:55):
So it's to help you be prepared.Actually, that's where this book
is useful. And they can find that on Amazon
or where can they go to to get the book there from you?
And buy them on Amazon.com, so in the paper version.
And of course I'm reachable by LinkedIn if they have any.
Any question, of course. Amazing building now a website.

(29:18):
Hopefully it will be available around Christmas.
I'm working on it. Amazing.
And then of course, so you have the book.
And then of course, I guess the last question for you here,
Patrick, is where can people find you?
I know you kind of mentioned LinkedIn.
Is that the best place that people can find you And they
want to if they want to reach out and learn more about what
you're up to? Yes, the easiest is via LinkedIn

(29:41):
and then you can send me a message when my website is alive
and kicking. But we'll have to wait until I
would take Christmas and then I'm starting to travel, having
some speaking engagement. So I'm planning to be in Germany
in January, maybe in Paris. I have to check in March, London
in June probably. So all around the world I can be

(30:02):
anywhere and and I hope to to fly to Singapore, but for
pleasure in. February.
Very nice. Well, Patrick, thank you so much
for being here and, you know, really sharing all these golden
Nuggets for people that want to tune in.
Remember, guys, go to linkedinsolinkedin.com/IN/patrick
Patrick last name Kamba KA MB A reach out, let them know that

(30:29):
you came from the Dark Matter Podcast and we're so happy that
you did. So thank you so much for tuning
in as always. And all the links will be down
below. And as always, I'll catch you on
the next one. If you enjoy today's episode,
please like, comment, share, subscribe to it all.

(30:51):
You know I appreciate it, and asalways, I'll catch you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 65: Quiet Ambition w/ Patrick Kamba

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Episode 65: Quiet Ambition w/ Patrick Kamba

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