iBuyers trends and strategy in 2021 with Stefan Peterson, Zavvie

Stefan Peterson is COO and Co-Founder of Zavvie, the brokerage source for a complete iBuyer strategy. Zavvie curates offers from ibuyers, bridge, renovation, and rental home investor buyers so brokers and agents can present a number of options to clients. In this week's episode, Aaron and Stefan discuss how the ibuyer game has changed, how Covid has changed offers, which markets they operate in and why, the pain points proptech companies are solving, the business models of each proptech segment, and how agents can leverage these offers with clients.

Get your questions answered on the upcoming show by posting your questions in our community: https://bit.ly/ddre-33

00:00​ The Data Driven Real Estate Podcast Welcomes Stefan Peterson, Co-founder Zavvie
00:06​ What is Zavvie and what does it do?
03:00​  What is an iBuyer?
14:08​ What is a bridge buyer and how does it compare to an ibuyer like Opendoor, Zillow, Offerpad and Redfin?
20:17​ What are single-family rental buyers like Cerberus and American Homes 4 Rent?
25:53​ What are renovation I buyers like HomeVestors?
29:56​ How long does it take to collect all ibuyer offers and present them to sellers?
35:51​ How have iBuyer offers changed over the past 12 months? What are the discounts and how do they write their offers?
38:38​ Options for brokers and agents without an in-house ibuyer platform
43:23​ Advantagaes of the iBuyer hybrid model with major real estate brands like Realogy and Keller Williams
49:42​ Can Main Street real estate investors get listed on Zavvie as a qualified buyer?
52:31​ Proptech trends and brands to watch in 2021?

Episode Transcript

Aaron Norris (00:06):
Welcome back to the Data Driven Real Estate
podcast the podcast for realestate professionals dedicated
to driving business using data.
I'm Aaron Norris withPropertyRadar and this is
episode 33. With Stefan Petersonof Zavvie. Zavvie provides a
complete iBuyer solution forbrokerages that may not have it
in house. Today we talk abouteverything from the different
sub models of the iBuyerexperience, from bridge to
single-family rental, to evenmainstream real estate investors

(00:28):
who's doing what, where and howlocals can take part in it. We
also find out the discountmodel, how it's changed
especially after COVID iBuyerslowed way down in 2020. But
they are back with a vengeanceand we'll talk about whether
it's going to be a seller'smarket that and much more on
this week's show. Alright,Stefan, thank you so much for
joining us. I have been a hugefan of the iBuyer concept for a

(00:50):
number of years and think it'shere to stay. And so let's start
with Zavvie, who and what isZavvie.

Stefan Peterson (00:59):
Yeah, so Zavvie. We provide a white label
software platform, you know, anenterprise software platform.
And we sell this mainly to largebrokerages, a few teams, as
well. But we've really focusedon large brokerages across the
country. You know, we began withbrokerages in the markets where

(01:19):
the iBuyers were active, youknow, talk more about that, I'm
sure. But at this point, we'reselling really in markets across
the country. We have 70brokerage partners right now
with about 50,000 agents usingour platform. And that's after
about a year. So, I can tell youwhat the platform does really
quickly. It makes it super easyfor our brokerages and their

(01:40):
agents to connect their clientshome sellers with all the new
ways of selling your house. Andyou know those ways our whole
range of buyers so that's theretail iBuyers, your Opendoor
and Zillow, etc. Someinvestor-type buyers that are
buying properties to hold andrent out these, you know, SFR
buyers, and then also a lot ofrenovation buyers, ranging from

(02:04):
you know, bigger companies.
Wedgewood, for example, down tosmall, kinda, you know, Mom and
Pop companies that are doing agood job of that too. So, we
make it easy for the agents toshow all these options to their
sellers, and then to connectthem with these offers, if they
seem to be a potential fit forthe seller.

Aaron Norris (02:22):
Now, will all these offers necessarily hit the
MLS? Or can some of this happenbehind the scenes?

Stefan Peterson (02:28):
Definitely behind the scenes pre MLS, you
know that, that's really thepreferred strategy that we help
our partners with, is get offerson these properties before
you're on the market, you know,the offers are going to be
better, I'm sure the audiencecan can appreciate that. And
then as well, you know, you savethe seller, a lot of hassle, the

(02:52):
seller and the agent don't haveto go through the hassle work
and expense of getting the houseready for the market. If you're
going to sell it to aninstitutional type buyer.

Aaron Norris (03:00):
Let's, let's back up a little bit and talk about
the different categories that,that you have access to. So,
let's talk first about iBuyer.
How would you define iBuyer?

Stefan Peterson (03:11):
Yeah, so, the way iBuyer is commonly defined,
you know, there's a handful ofhigh technology, really
well-capitalized companies thatare retail brands and they are
trying to go direct to theconsumer with a proposition to
buy the house. So, thosecompanies you know, they're easy
to list. It's Opendoor, Zillowoffers, Offerpad and Redfin.

(03:36):
Now, those are really, you know,the four iBuyers out there. And
you know, the thing about theseguys, I think that
differentiates them from othermost other buyers is what
they're focused on is theconsumer experience there,
they're not targeting distressedsellers or people whose house
needs a lot of work. They'rejust trying to make the selling

(03:57):
process faster, more convenient.
More certain in terms of theseller gets to pick a closing
date and you know, you're goingto close on that day. And, and
interestingly, you know, duringthe pandemic safety has been a
big one for for the eye buyers.
And I think it's funny when youlook at the I buyers, how they
represent themselves, they'veall come up with the same value

(04:19):
proposition exactly. The wordschanged slightly. But that's the
value proposition that connectswith sellers speed, certainty,
convenience and safety.

Aaron Norris (04:28):
If you've never sort of seen what offers look
like from these iBuyers in thePropertyRadar community, I have
digital ads and as a propertyowner in Florida and California
I get hit up by them often.
Specifically, Opendoor spends aheck of a lot of money on direct
mail. So, I've shared that and Ithink companies like Opendoor
have a huge uphill battle. Imean when you're a Redfin or

(04:48):
Zillow Offer, you know youalready are top of mind for
consumers looking on theinternet and you go to look up
your zestimate and there's a getyour you know, cash offer now
button that you can hit. So,they're in the top 15 most
visited real estate sites, whereOpeneddoor, you know, maybe the
IPO will put them a little bitmore on the map, but it's not

(05:09):
top of mind for consumers. So, Isee how much money they're
having to spend in every marketthat they operate in. I'm just
like, Wow, that's a lot ofmoney.

Stefan Peterson (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, definitely customer acquisition
for any of the iBuyer, includingZillow. It's just brutal. For
sure, Zillow has a massiveadvantage there. But that's
really their challenge is, youknow, for Zillow, not so much
getting people to the site. Butgetting offers requested and
accepted, you know that, thatfunnel for the iBuyer, you know,

(05:42):
the conversion rate from offer,presented to offer accepted is,
is small, kind of like 5%, downto 3%. So, that's a lot they're
spending.

Aaron Norris (05:53):
And I know, we'll cover all the different
categories on the website, Idefinitely want to chat a little
bit about what these categories,how you identify them are, what
they're doing and what they'renot doing. So, I'd love to chat
with you about what I've beenexperiencing what they're doing
here in California, and maybeconfirm or deny my suspicions.
So, it's definitely changed likeOfferpad in California has

(06:15):
completely disappeared. And Ireally saw what they were doing
several years ago, they were oneof the first ones in my market.
And they weren't afraid of goingafter the heavy rehabs. And they
did a beautiful job and went allthe way to staging even in
markets like the Inland Empire,which are considered like a
lower dollar amount. Theydisappeared. And as we
progressed into 2019, it wasvery clear, I make fun, sort of

(06:39):
on a play that we buy uglyhouses brand, the HomeVestors
brand, I say they've reallyturned more into the We Buy easy
houses where it's not unusualfor me to see them take on a
house and be in and out in acouple of months whenever
possible. And you're lucky toget new paint and carpet and
forget about painting theoutside. And on the inside. If
you get a new brush nickel poll,it's that's a rehab for them. Am

(07:02):
I seeing it wrong?

Stefan Peterson (07:04):
So, I don't think you are, you know, I
should say, you know, wherewe're coming from with this is I
less focus on the rehabproperties more focused on what
consumers in general are askingfor? But I definitely agree. You
know, Offerpad specifically hassort of retrenched with some of

(07:25):
the markets they're working inso a little less than
California, a little more insome other markets. All of the
iBuyers by the way, last yearbought a lot fewer houses than
they did in 2019. They were downfor the full year about 60%.
Year over... so if it feels toyou, like the iBuyers kind of
went away, uh, well they didbecause they, they, they kind of

(07:46):
went on pause. Really part ofCOVID but they're coming back
pretty quickly now.

Aaron Norris (07:52):
Yeah, I've seen that they've really ramped up, I
have a chart in front of me ofthe data. And they're ramping up
to their close to where theywere, you know, in let's see,
August of last year, finally.
2019. So, they are slowlystarting to pick up.

Stefan Peterson (08:07):
Yeah, but I didn't want to make one other
point about that, in terms of,you know, you mentioned
HomeVestors, like we buy easyhouses, you know, one thing we
do see is, you know, many of therenovation type operators, and
definitely the bigger ones,like, you know, like HomeVestors
you know, they, they have, Iwould say, adjusted their

(08:27):
marketing to be a little moresimilar to the iBuyers. You
know, they're not emphasizing somuch, get a cash offer or close
really fast, you know, needcash, call us, it's more, hey,
we can, we can make this easierand a better experience for you.
And I think, I think, I thinkthat's working. That's my take

(08:48):
on it.

Aaron Norris (08:49):
And it's important to know from you know, both
Realtor and real estateinvestors what they are and are
not. What they aren't doingbecause as an example, they're
not going after projects withpeople problems or super heavy
repairs. I have real estateinvestors that are actively
wholesaling to iBuyer solvingthose problems on the
background. So, probate, hoarderhomes, you know, get them, D

(09:10):
junk them and sell them or realestate investors who are trying
to time very complex 1031exchanges and come in with a
rental portfolio that's indecent shape doesn't need a lot
of work, being able to sell themto an iBuyer and then go
elsewhere. And it's all about atiming thing. So, both on the
retail and the investor side Ihave them leveraging iBuyers.
So, it's just good to know howpeople are doing it. And but

(09:33):
what they aren't doing, in LAfor an example, a couple months
ago, I saw them doing amillion-dollar condo deal.
That's not what they're doing 45minutes inland here in
California. It's interesting andthen I was researching Phoenix
and seeing, you know,statistically over the last
several years 10% of those weregoing to institutional buy and
hold investors. So, like theCerberus of the..

Stefan Peterson (09:55):
Yes.

Aaron Norris (09:56):
So, I, I see that picking up they just raised
billions of dollars. So, it'sgoing to be, it's already a
tight market. I think iBuyer arehere to stay. The one other
point I want to make is thatZillow has already admitted
they've, they're losing onaverage, I think it was $7,000
in 2019. They admitted whereevery iBuyer transaction, but

(10:17):
they also have mortgage, theyhave closing via Dotloop. And
now they have the buy-sell sideon the brokerage side. And they
make a lot of money with theiradvertising. So, they've created
this entire ecosystem. So,they're making a lot of money in
a lot of different places. So,they don't have to make a
killing on the buy-sell side,which is what real estate
investors stressed out about,like, I can't operate on those

(10:37):
margins.

Stefan Peterson (10:38):
Right.

Aaron Norris (10:39):
So, you have to know what they're doing in your
local market, it's very specificto each city. So, you just have
to find out what they're doingand what they want.

Stefan Peterson (10:47):
Yeah, I mean, a few, a few points I'd make
there. So, one in terms of whatkind of properties are iBuyer,
buying, you know, forget aboutwhat's on their website, or what
they say they're doing. The factis, and you know, we see this in
our business, we facilitate1000s of offer requests a month
to all the iBuyer and a bunch ofother institutional buyers as
well. And, and the fact is, theyadjust their "buy box" for t

(11:12):
e market and even for te individual specific opportunit
. So, we see seven figure iBuyr offers in Southern Californ
a all the time condos and othr types of properties. We s
e offers on older homes, fr example, like older inner-ci
y center properties in Denver, yu know, they, they claim a
d they're not going to buy tht house. But if they think th

(11:33):
y got a good deal, a god opportunity, they're going
o take i

Aaron Norris (11:37):
I really like coming from a power position,
especially if you're a Realtor,if you have that information of
what they're doing and not doingbe able to say, you know, I'm
more than happy to help you havesubmit those kind of offers. But
upfront, this is what I see themdoing. Just having the data at
hand is very powerful.

Stefan Peterson (11:53):
Yeah, I mean, we tell our partners, you know,
and their agents go out andrequest offers literally on, on
anything, I mean, we can prettyeasily tell you if it's way
outside of a buy box. Butsometimes you just never know
you can be surprised. And youknow, there there is a dynamic,
I think this is interesting foryou. We hear this from our

(12:14):
partners, where they'rerealizing, hey, things are
different now, there's a lot ofinstitutions, companies that
will buy properties. It'sactually my fiduciary
responsibility as an agent, if Iknow these off- these offers are
out there, I should go get them.
And if they say, you know,thanks, but we won't make an
offer on your house. Okay,great. You know, I did my job, I

(12:35):
tried to procure an offer for myseller. But there is this sense
of, hey, as a realtor, part ofwhat you need to be doing now is
bringing all available offers tothe table and checking on those.

Aaron Norris (12:48):
Absolutely. And I think that's what I really like.
And we'll keep trekking forwardon the different kinds of
buyers. And you've got thisgreat verified buyer map on the
Zavvie website. And I'll put alink to that where these
different buyers that we'retalking about are on there.

Stefan Peterson (13:02):
Yeah, one other thing was I made a little note,
you know, you said SFR buyers,you know that they're gonna buy
a property and lease it for aperiod of time. Yeah, I agree.
You know, we we talked to, Ithink all of the big SFR players
around the country. And what I'mhearing is, you know, that the

(13:23):
economics for the rentals rightnow are really good. And they're
planning to buy a lot of housesdirect from consumers this year.
I think that'll be something yousee in many marketplaces, you
will feel that activity.

Aaron Norris (13:36):
Yeah, I've actually been watching. So,
you've got Tricon, Progress,American home 4 Rent, Cerberus.
I definitely see their activitypicking up as of last year, they
had already raised the money andstarted buying so I, I get the
sense that you're going to bebusier this year as well. And
perhaps with through you, theywon't have to buy through the

(13:56):
iBuyer, you know, they can list.
You know, I don't know how yousay that seller direct through,
through you. They won't have togo through the intermediary.

Stefan Peterson (14:06):
Yeah, I think that's a possibility.

Aaron Norris (14:08):
Okay. Well, let's talk about bridge buyer because
Knock is one of those that youcategorize as bridge buyer and I
actually have listed as aniBuyer, let's talk a bit about
bridge buyer and what thatmeans.

Stefan Peterson (14:18):
Yeah, so the Knock program, let's say up
front, it's a little bitcomplicated. In fact, in the
earlier days, I would say it wasconfusing, but they really
retooled it in the last I don'tknow maybe nine months and it
really is sort of a bridgeprogram. So, the way it works is
as as a seller, you go to Knockyou know you're gonna buy a

(14:40):
house but first you got to sellyour house. It's a huge problem
for sellers especially in tightinventory market. So, what Knock
will do is if you qualify theour house you want to buy
qualifies with them. They willbuy that house for you, you will
move into that house, then Knockis going to sell your old house
on the Open Market so far thatyou'll pay a, you know, a small

(15:03):
service fee and I don't knowexactly what it is for knock,
but it's, you know, kinda likeone to 2% and, and then you're
going to pay your Realtor. So,this keeps the Realtor involved.
You're going to pay the Realtorwhen you buy your new house. And
when you list and sell your oldhouse, you know, you're going to
get market price on your resaleKnock throws in some, some

(15:24):
allowance to renovate, you know,preparing for, preps and repairs
for your old house. And then youpay that out of the closing. You
know, I think you know, Knockjust based on what consumers and
our partners tell us the new thenewer program is working really
well. And I think you know,bridge programs. Others are

(15:46):
similar to Knock. I don't knowwho I'm talking about EasyKnock,
which is in a lawsuit with Knockjust for fun. But you know that
these programs are all prettysimilar in what they aim to do.
They let somebody you know, buybefore they sell. They're all
getting incredible tractionright now and I think they're a

(16:06):
fixture in the in this landscapeto stay.

Aaron Norris (16:09):
Yeah, I agree. I was confused as well on
EasyKnock. I could understandwhile there why there is a
lawsuit there.

Stefan Peterson (16:17):
Yeah.

Aaron Norris (16:19):
Easy knock is gonna be easier, right?

Stefan Peterson (16:23):
Yeah. Waiting for Hard Knocks, looking for
Hard Knocks to launch but hasn'thappened yet.

Aaron Norris (16:29):
Exactly. Well, it's good to know. And I know
Compass and there's other realestate brands Realogy just
announced their version ofiBuyer. I forget which way they
decided to go. And we're workingon them. Getting on the show.
Keller Williams have beenthreatening? Do you have any
insights into those major brandsand how they plan to approach
this model?

Stefan Peterson (16:49):
Well, so. So, with, with Realogy it's, it's a
real sure. And that's incollaboration with Home Partners
of America. You know, I thinkthat, that program has also
changed a lot. I think they,they may have done sort of a
soft launch got some feedbackfrom the market and then
they've, they've retooled it asmuch more of a bridge-type

(17:12):
program seems like overall avery smart and strong offering
with for, what, to me and youknow, we don't have it on any of
our partners platforms yet forour Realogy partners, we're
really looking forward to that.
So, yeah, I'll definitely listento your podcast when you have
them on. The other ones youmentioned, you know, I'm not

(17:32):
aware of what Compass is doingwith iBuyerS if you know
something about it...

Aaron Norris (17:39):
Compas have done sort of the bridge financing
where they gave you an allowanceto repair and what's
interesting, basically marketyou might not even have to do
that much in repairs. So,there's isn't an iBuyer model
there's more of a renovationassist.

Stefan Peterson (17:53):
Gotcha. So, in in Zavvie world we you know,
categorize all those programsas, as concierge s,o Compass is
definitely an innovator thereand you know, like Zoom Casa,
Curbio is another, I think,along with the bridge financing
solution, which is you know,it's, it's not a loan, we got to

(18:15):
be clear, these are not bridgeloans. This is a FinTech
solution where they buy a house,you know, they but the concierge
of these renovation allowancedeals are also getting a lot of
attraction in the marketplace.
We have a partner, big companyout in Boston, Jack Conway just
launched their Zavvie platformyesterday, featuring their in
house concierge program. And youknow, they're getting a lot of

(18:39):
conversion on that it's helpingthem win listings. And just you
know, do more business it's,it's, it's a driver, you know, a
lot of these for, I think forbrokerages, I think keep in mind
is collaborating with iBuyerusing bridge programs, concierge
programs, it's really a catalystthat you may not convert
somebody on to those programsevery time. But if you don't

(19:03):
convert them, say for yourbridge program, you still want a
listing, and you're still goingto sell a house,

Aaron Norris (19:10):
Right. It's just being able to offer whatever
best suits their needs, you havesomething to offer them whether
it's speed, or just yeah, justimportant to know.

Stefan Peterson (19:20):
Big, big point to pull it back a level, you
know, you know, we say this allthe time and Zavvie consumers,
you know what they want, theywant optionality, they want to
know all of everything that'savailable, right? So, this is
you know, what the Internet hasdone to people, you want to go
to one web, website and seeevery hotel and every, you know,
every flight you can take. So,they want to see all their

(19:41):
options, and they have nopatience for somebody who's not
going to bring them all optionsbecause it's a waste of time.
So, optionality is one andsecondly, they really want one
button to so to speak, right?
You got one button on your phonewill do anything that phone can
do you start it, it's always thesame, you push one button and
away you go. People want moreone button to access all their
options. So, you know, wedefinitely, you know, keep that

(20:03):
idea central at Zavvie becausethat's what we do we're one
place one process to get everyoption from iBuyers to bridge
to, you know, a whole range ofother renovation SFR type buyers
as well.

Aaron Norris (20:17):
Yeah, let's keep walking down this map, I'm
literally referencing yourverified buyer map page. And so,
the next category, we've coveredthe standard iBuyer, the bridge
buyer, and now let's coversingle-family rental buyers and
what that is, and some of thekey players in the space.

Stefan Peterson (20:33):
Yeah. So, well key players in the space. I
mean, you recounted many of the,you know, the big ones. You
know, there are others. And Ithink I don't want to mention
names because I'm under NDA witha few of them.

Aaron Norris (20:49):
Oh, Okay.

Stefan Peterson (20:50):
So, I'm just going to say, there's a bunch of
SFR buyers out there that are,you know, they're, they're,
they're big, professional,well-capitalized companies. And,
you know, there may be a waythat they can, can work with
Zavvie, you know, I'd say a fewthat we have on the platform,
now, you know, Roofstock is onthe platform at this time, for
example. But a swift, Swift Homeis another based in Chicago. You

(21:19):
know, the way we really see itis whether you're an SFR buyer,
or you're a retail iBuyer, fromthe consumers point of view,
you're another option to buytheir house, their buy boxes are
a little different, which by theway, is cool for consumers,
because not everybody, thee's always, in many markets, you
got a buyer for every type ofroperty at this point. But, you

(21:45):
know, they they're making strng offers their economics are
different because they they buyon yield. And you know, tha
, that actually makes them supr competitive relative to the
iBuyer, and even the open maret in some cases.

Aaron Norris (21:58):
Truly really interesting about that concept
is that, you know, legislationrecently here in California used
Wall Street institutional, asreasons we need to change our
foreclosure laws. And they usedreally bad data to start SB
1079, for those in Californiawho were paying attention. So,
they introduced the 45 dayredemption period, but
specifically called out I thinkit was waypoint homes as a

(22:22):
reason why it was necessary. Andthey're buying all these
foreclosures. And what's funnyis that they ignored that when
those entities came intoCalifornia at the time in the
market, if they would have notcome in, we would have lingered
a lot more in REO's because theytook them off the market and
we're still driven. In today'smarket. What's interesting is
that prices have in some marketsquadrupled. What do they were

(22:43):
buying? So, the economics of it,yes, interest rates have gone
down, but it's reallyfascinating. The fact that they
raised all this money, I knowpart of it, they thought that
they were gonna buy distress.
And now that it's clear, itdoesn't matter what party you're
associated with. It doesn't looklike the government is thinking
a big wave of foreclosures agood idea, right? Eviction.
moratoriums are really gettingpushed out even further. The

(23:04):
economics of that, I mean, it'sjust really surprising that this
is where they're going. Anyinsight there?

Stefan Peterson (23:13):
I mean, sure.
Rents are generally high.

Aaron Norris (23:15):
Yeah.

Stefan Peterson (23:15):
And there are a lot of people, a lot of
consumers who don't have the dowpayment or the ability to buy
a house. You know, there's defnitely some challenges in the
housing market right now. Youknow, on the one hand, we had
a spectacular year, last yea, especially if you're a rea
estate broker, you probably hada really successful year. But
it's tough for a lot of conumers. Inventory is tight, pri

(23:40):
es are high, it's, it's squezing buyers, especially fir
t time buyers, so, they're looing for a rental. And you kno
, the rent, the rents are hig, and for institutional buy
rs who can come in and proide rentals. That's what's hap
ening. Whether you like it orot that, that's the way the mar
et is working right now.

Aaron Norris (23:58):
Okay. And if you've never heard of some of
these brands that we're talkingabout today, a place that I like
to go is rentalhomecouncil.org.
So, American Homes 4 Rent,Innovation Homes, Progressive,
Tricon, Front Yard Residential,there's quite a few and there's
more that have sort of popped upover the years, and there's been
a lot of merger and acquisitionsin the space. So, as I'm trying
to track these, that's part ofthe issue, at least for me and

(24:20):
public records is it's justreally messy. One of them in
particular has been the bane ofmy existence because of all the
M&A work that's happened. Andthey're like associated with 200
entities. It's insane and...

Stefan Peterson (24:32):
Well, I mean, my opinion on that is a lot of
those buyers, they, they, theywant to, you know, obfuscate a
little bit their, their purchaseactivity, so they're not
completely transparent byputting their own names in the
public records. You know, Ithink it's also important to
note that, you know, outside ofthe institutional buyers,

(24:54):
there's lots of privateinvestors who are snapping up,
you know, single-family homes tolease them out. And now it's
having I don't have numbers onthis, but I'm guessing a bigger
impact than all theinstitutional buyers.

Aaron Norris (25:08):
Well, and where were these institutional buyers
like to buy? I have a feelingthat it's going to be a little
bit uncomfortable to share inthe political realm because of
affordable housing.

Stefan Peterson (25:18):
Yeah.

Aaron Norris (25:18):
Even in very business friendly states like
Arizona, it feels like theconversation keeps creeping in
about affordable housing. Andespecially, especially with the
eviction moratoriums, it'sinteresting to watch the
language at the national andstate level. They seem a little
bit more focused on Main Streetthan Wall Street. So, something

(25:38):
to keep an eye on. But itdoesn't didn't stop them from
raising a lot of money.

Stefan Peterson (25:45):
I totally agree that's an area to keep an eye
on. I just it's not going awaythat issue.

Aaron Norris (25:53):
The last category you have on the website is
renovation iBuyer. And that Ithink that's what a lot of Main
Street real estate investorswould consider themselves but
let's talk about the categoryand the and the companies that
you follow.

Stefan Peterson (26:06):
Yeah. So, I'd say that first of all, you know,
a big reason we, we put thatverified buyer map on our
website was to honestly inviteinterest from for more
renovation buyers, really anybuyers to you know, we want to
put all this all the options inone place, right? That's the all

(26:27):
the optionality one button thatZavvie. So if, if anybody is
interested in in being on one ofour broker partners' platforms,
being on our map, by all means,you know, click over to that
website, and there's a shortform to fill out and we'll
follow up with you about that.
But, you know, renovationbuyers, we saw, we're filling a

(26:47):
niche and consumer demand justlike the retail iBuyer were,
they for sure solve a problem.
Um, you know, we're a Realtorcentric company, you know, we
grew out of a real estatebrokerage. And, you know, for a
lot of sellers there, they'restuck because they want to move

(27:09):
but they can't afford therepairs they need to make to
sell their house. So, that'swhere renovation iBuyer can can
be, you know, a godsend in manysituations. So, we work with a
number of local investors. Andthen some bigger companies I
mentioned, you know, Wedgewoodis one HomeGo, Sunday, Homelove.

(27:33):
Those are some others. We, wehave an arrangement with. With
HomeVestors. So, we we send thema lot of properties as well. But
you know, we recognize there areprofessional operators in almost
every market, who can reallyhelp sellers. And we want to
include them on our on ourplatform. And on the website

(27:53):
map.

Aaron Norris (27:54):
It's a great segue into you know, the market and
where some of them are workingin some aren't. So, I think you
would probably have a lot betterluck with maybe local mainstream
investors in some markets wherethe iBuyer just haven't reached
yet. Is there a formula to wherea lot of these Wall Street
companies and these proptechompanies are focusing their
ttention and expanding this ear?

Stefan Peterson (28:19):
Yeah, I think for this year, the iBuyer are
mostly going to stay in themarkets where they're currently
operating like the retail guys.
And the same I think goes forSFR buyers, you know, you,
you're not going to see thoseguys up in the northeast, for
example, or in, you know, themiddle of the rust belt. At the
same time, if I were to pick onemarket area, one state where we

(28:44):
see the most demand for ourplatform, you know, bringing
people institutional buyeroptions, including renovation
buyers, it's the state of Ohio,and you know, that iBuyer are
really not doing much there,especially in rural Ohio. And I
say that just as you know, toillustrate that we actually have
demand from across the country.

(29:07):
You know, we have brokerpartners in 40 states, all of
them are looking for newsolutions for their sellers. And
I know everybody's everybody'sgot a different buy box differen
kind of property they're lookinfor. Often those will fit wel
with the listings that oupartners are taking. So, no,
don't I don't see anything supenew in terms of those locations

(29:29):
But I think what is new aneverybody should be aware of i
there's just a lot of consumedemand for these new ways o
selling

Aaron Norris (29:37):
Interesting Okay.

Stefan Peterson (29:38):
Yeah, and I shouldn't say new because you
guys have been doing thisforever, but for the consumer
different ways of selling. And Iyou know, I think there's a lot
of evidence that consumeracceptance of selling your house
to company rather than on theopen market that consumer
acceptance is increasing a lot.

Aaron Norris (29:56):
Walk me through what how a broker, it's great
because you, you basically, evenif somebody doesn't have an eye
buyer program, you're pullingall the different kinds of
offers available in one spot,and a broker is able to present
it to their client, which isawesome. Walk me through what
that looks like in theturnaround time that you're
experiencing with COVID. So, abroker uses you, they've got a

(30:18):
client, they want to present,how long does it take?

Stefan Peterson (30:21):
Yeah, so, you know, our whole process from the
beginning, you know, part of oursoftware shows, the agent and
their clients estimates of allthe different selling programs,
kind of what the fees are, whatthe expected net is on a
transaction. So, sellers seesthat they kind of know what
they're getting into. And thesecond thing our platform does
is it makes it really easy forthe seller to provide all the

(30:44):
information that the buyers needto make a good accurate offer
really quickly. So, we combineall the publicly available data,
you know, we buy that from avendor, and then we've got a
questionnaire that the sellerfills out. So they say, you
know, what, what are thecountertops made of, you know,
what kind of shape is the floorin or is there, you know, is

(31:06):
there a solar are there, theirsolar lease, solar panel lease,
and all that. And so we send inphotos as well, so we sent a
very complete file to to thebuyer. So, the buyers then are
typically able to turn aroundwith with a solid offer in about
24 hours, sometimes 48 hours,occasionally a bit longer. But

(31:26):
you know, 24 hours is really thebenchmark, that offer goes back
to the agent, you know, all ofour sellers are represented by
the way that's important. Havingthe agent is a big plus for the
buyers, because you get pulledthrough with an agent, the agent
is doing the work ,keepingthings going, you know, they
want to earn a commission. So,that deal happens and if it's

(31:48):
going to be a good fit for theseller, the agent is going to
make sure that it all comestogether so they so they earn a
commission, which by the way ispaid by the seller, not by not
by the buyer that the seller isoing to pay.

Aaron Norris (32:03):
Oh, okay.

Stefan Peterson (32:07):
Yeah, that's the surprise to a lot of people.
Why would a seller pay that? Whydon't they go direct to the
buyer and you know, cut theagent out? Yeah, they could if
they weren't under a listingagreement, but even without it,
they just don't becausehonestly, sellers appreciate the
work the Realtor does. They,they ,they understand the value
and they compensate agents forit. That's what we've seen at

(32:29):
Zavvie. So, anyway, those offersfrom the buyer go direct to the
listing agent, the listing agentcan then you know, have a
conversation with the sellerabout what's the best option to
choose. And you know, then fromthere it's a regular transaction
and honestly we kind of move tothe background because we've you
know, we we kind of fill the topof the funnel we get this

(32:51):
process started but then youknow, we we don't need to be
involved in the deal itself.

Aaron Norris (32:58):
You're getting to see a lot of really interesting
data from all these differentbuyers can you share a little
bit of the discount that maybethese different categories are
looking at and the kind ofinventory that they're
interested in?

Stefan Peterson (33:10):
Yeah, so yeah, a couple things I can definitely
share there you know, one andthis is this is about the iBuyer
really right? I should beupfront This is about ibuyers
not so much the renovation guys.
Those economics are way hardefor us to peel back and..

Aaron Norris (33:28):
Right.

Stefan Peterson (33:29):
But I think what we see from the iBuyer is
actually relevant for everybodyhere because over the last year
I kind of say even midn-, mid2019 through the end of 2020 The
ibuyer offers were progressivelybecoming less competitive. And
so, in 2019 give me this is agood stat for you if you didn't

(33:52):
know iBuyer were buying italmost 99% of the market price
and on average right soobviously some offers were low,
some were even above market buton average iBuyer were paying
99% and I do my analysis on thatMike DelPrete if you follow him
he does his analysis we both gotalmost the same number. So, I
think you know you can hang yourhat on that. Then you know

(34:15):
starting in last year thosethose numbers really started to
decrease and they wound up morelike 95% which might still sound
like a good offer but that's alot of money you know you think
four 4% or so. So, it wasbecoming more expensive to sell
to an iBuyer basically, yet theincidents you know the
conversion rate of a selleraccepting an offer from an

(34:38):
iBuyer has been going up and upand up. So, offer is getting
worse acceptance going up. Youknow why would that happen? And
especially why would that happenin a strong seller's market when
you can put your house you knowon the on the open market and
sell it really fast and you knowfor a top dollar. The answer is
people are just looking for theiBuyer benefits, speed,

(35:00):
convenience, certainty, all ofthat they are looking for a
better experience. That's whypeople are doing it. And I, it's
you know, you also see forexample, with iBuyer offers the
prep and repairs charges havebeen steadily increasing over
the last year from about 3% onaverage, up to more like 4% last

(35:20):
year. So, that, you know, 25%gain over the course of that..
sellers don't seem to care.

Aaron Norris (35:30):
Let's talk about that. Because I don't think what
you see in public records on theMLS, the sales price is what was
paid for the home. But there'scredits right on the buyer side.
So, you're saying a 5% discount,sort of like a fee for them to
take it on. And then anadditional three to 4% as you
know, a prep repair fee to getthe house ready.

Stefan Peterson (35:51):
I, the way I break it down like this, you
know, you're right now onaverage, the iBuyerat about a 5%
discount to the market. They arecharging a service fee of you
know, 5% for Opendoor kind of 7%for Offerpad and Zillow. And
then a prep and repairs, whichthe seller is not going to know

(36:14):
about until after they'veaccepted an initial offer and
are a little bit down the road.
And that is averaging about 4%right now. On on the open market
prep and repairs is averaging,you know, one to one and a half
percent. So, you are going toprobably spend more and with if
you on prep and repairs, if yousell your house to an iBuyer

(36:36):
han you would on the openarket. Again, though sellers do
ot seem to mind they areccepting more and more iBuyerr
ffers. And then you know, Iotta say this, it's it's the
taff that cannot be ignored,hould not be ignored. Sellers
ho go to an iBuyer and compete a deal. They love it. Cust
mer satisfaction for ibuyrs, which we measure we've been

(36:58):
doing that for a year and a halfhas increased steadily f
om them, I think 8.7 out of 10o the last quarter, they broke
through nine out of 10. And ancdotally, we see a lot of com
ents. Oh, it was an expensiveransaction. I wish it was a litt
e cheaper. But it was great. I lve it. 9, 10 out of 10.

Aaron Norris (37:18):
Yeah, I mean, getting rid of the repairs
themselves with the costs ofeverything going up getting
skilled labor. I mean, thebuilders have been complaining
for years that skilled labor isan issue. And the last time I
did a major rehab here inCalifornia, I was calling in
favors and it was hard. So, it'smore time, it's more expense,
you know, I can understandwanting to get rid of that the

(37:40):
whole sales process isstressful. And if you're going
into another transaction tryingto move, you know, there's a lot
of emotional data to look at whypeople would be considering to
do this. But this is the usedcar model, just unreal estate, I
really don't see this goingaway. This is not going away.
And it's only going to getbetter. We had, in December, we
had Dotloop. So, Zillow'sDotloop their closing platform.

(38:03):
And a couple weeks before that Iwas on the webinar for Notarize,
the remote online notary. So,where we're going with the
transaction, I mean, this isjust the future and the
expectation of a consumer,especially the digital first
generation. Our industry justhas some catch up to do shame on
us for. So, I'm excited thatyour platform comes along and

(38:24):
allows brokers and agents tohave access to this, even if
their in house team doesn't havetheir own proprietary model. So,
I think that's really important.
So, you must be getting greatfeedback from locals.

Stefan Peterson (38:38):
Yeah, I mean, yes, I mean, we've been
successful. We've been workingon Zavvie for a while now. And
you know, the reason we'refinding some success now is
because there is increasingconsumer demand for these new
ways of selling, you know, havea company buyer house, easier
all the stuff we've talkedabout, that's being translated

(38:59):
through real estate agents andbrokerages. You know, sellers
are saying, 'Hey, I heard youknow, and in Phoenix, you can
sell your house all thesecompanies cannot. Can I do that
here in Columbus, Ohio?' Andthey're saying well, kind of
sorta bu,t and then they'recalling us Zavvie saying, What
an you guys do for us? We'veeard your platform brings all
hese options. So, you know, I'day you know, the iBuyer are

(39:23):
ight, there's a lot of demandor this. You know, the bridge
eople are taking a veryifferent tack, which has some a
vantages. I think what you'regoing to see in the coming
year, I'll make a really bold pediction, it's probably going
o be a seller's market the sae way it is now in which case,
ou're going to have a few sellerare going to want to work w

(39:43):
th an iBuyer because they'rjust going into cash and they f
el like they need to sell quicklwith certainty so they can go
and buy a new house. Or they'rgoing to work with bridge
so they can sell before they by or buy before they sell,
xcuse me. So, yeah, sellers market, that's what's gonna
appen. But in case it's a buyersmarket, people are going to lov
the iBuyer because now I have aguaranteed way to sell my house,

(40:04):
it's, it's really a heads,I win tails, you lose situat
on for the iBuyer and otherolutions, and I think they'r
only going to get strongr. You know, a fun fact is in
019 or not sorry, 2020 they,ou know, they sold about 60% fe
er houses than they did the yer before. And yet their enterp

(40:26):
ise value. So, this is, you knw, what Wall Street thinks
they're doing their enterpise values went up 153%. So, 60
down, not a good year, if youre in real estate, on the other
and, 150% up and in your actualmoney that's in the bank, that's
a that's an amazing year, so the're gonna keep doing more of wha
they've been doing.

Aaron Norris (40:47):
I agree, my, my best friend lives in LA and we
chatted, he's finally gonna getjump off the fence and buy a
home. And they they were soexcited. They they saw one that
they really liked this weekendonly to call the agent Monday,
you know, first thing Monday,over 12 offers. So, you're
right, it's going to be ascalding hot seller's market

(41:08):
again, and I just, I just thinkthis gets rid of those
contingencies and the fear of,you know, the laundry list of 30
pages of things that you've gotto fix. There's definitely some
benefits here.

Stefan Peterson (41:19):
So, here's here's a great soundbite from,
you know, one of our brokerpartners, he told his agents, he
said, hey, what if you had amagic wand? So, all of your
sellers could go ahead and buytheir next house now before
they've sold their currenthouse? And they'd be a cash
buyer contingency free on thatpurchase? What if you had that
magic wand as as an agent? Doyou think you'd win more

(41:40):
listings and you know, sell morelistings and represent more
buyers? Well, guess what, youknow, that magic wand is a
bridge program that you can getthrough, through our platform,
or you just get it on your owntoo. And, you know, here's
another here's another greatsoundbite since we're on it,
different, different brokerssaid, you know, most agents,

(42:01):
they go to a listingappointment, they bring a CMA,
you know, Comparative MarketAnalysis, they bring a CMA. But
my agents, they bring offers,they bring cash offers to that
listing appointment, and youknow, who's gonna win I think
that's the future real estate,you know, that's, that's the
modern agent, the modernbrokerage. I think these are all
trends that we see happening,and it's not going to sweep the

(42:24):
country 100% overnight, butdefinitely, the movement is
afoot.

Aaron Norris (42:29):
You know, what's really great, there's also, a
pain point for Realtors, there'snothing worse than meeting with
a seller. And they're just likethat duck border and amazing,
ridiculous tile, I put in mymaster bathroom, it's worth so
much more, where if you're ableto come to the table with all
these offers, if other peopleare delivering the bad news. So,

(42:49):
you as an agent, come to thetable with real offers saying,
this is the base price. If Ilist it, this is what I think I
can give you. But you alreadyknow you have multiple offers
right here that you can takeright now. But it beats them up
on price, which I really, reallylike, so.

Stefan Peterson (43:04):
And sometimes they get a great offer that they
accept, you know, sometimespeople people will sell to
institutional buyers for allkinds of reasons they get a
great offer, they they've got tobuy their next house, they need
to go move across the country,whatever. These solutions really
makes sense for a lot of people.

Aaron Norris (43:22):
I'm most excited about that. The, the excuse me,
the hybrid model. I'm waitingfor Keller Williams and the
Realogy brands to really launchbecause I just think that local
boots on the ground over andover again, it seems like no
matter the demographic, theyreally want somebody to walk
them through. So, I think theagent just has to sort of really
work on their value proposition.
And I'm just really excitedabout them launching in the

(43:45):
market. Do you see them havingany advantage disadvantages that
you guys have talked about?

Stefan Peterson (43:54):
I think they potentially have advantages. I
think that's a really smartmodel, kind of the hybrid
brokerage, you know, whereyou've got agents and you've got
the something like a bridgeprogram or an iBuyer program
built into your brokerage. I cansay that, that definitely has
potential because we see some ofour partners doing exactly that.

(44:17):
And then you know, they didn'tstart off with, oh, we're going
to be a hybrid brokerage, we'vegot a new idea. They said, Hey,
you know, we run a successfulreal estate brokerage. We've
already got mortgage in house.
Maybe we should buy a few ofthese houses. We can you know,
Zillow can buy a house, we canbuy a house, we can bring offers
to the listing appointment too,so they're doing that and then

(44:38):
they're realizing, gosh, it'snot that much of a leap to go
from, you know, providing amortgage to providing a bridge
program. So, I think that we'rein the earliest days of this and
it's probably too early to callit a trend, but we do see
brokerages, establishedbrokerages reverse engineering

(44:58):
their way to become hybridbrokerages. And my guess is, you
know, in a lot of ways, thosecompanies, they have an edge
over the upstarts because, youknow, they've been doing it,
they've got experienced agentswho've got huge clients fears.
They're known and trusted intheir markets. You know, I, I've
often thought and actually I'veseen this in Denver, you know,

(45:20):
I'm based in Boulder and we havea lot of contacts around, around
Boulder Denver. But you know,agents reaching out like Kevin
sort of a partnership with witha renovation company, to help
pull these deals together, wherethe agent would say, or the
brokerage would say, hey, we'vegot a lot of properties, some of

(45:40):
them, you know, they're gonnawant offers, and how about we
send those to you and we get insync so we can deliver great
customer experience. I thinkthat's an opportunity for kind
of your main street investors iskeeping in mind you, you can
work with real estate brokeragesand agents to do more business.

Aaron Norris (46:00):
The what's funny is that all this iBuyer stuff,
when I teach the differentRealtor associations, I'm like,
why aren't you a real estateinvestor, you've always had
access to caches, as is offers,you just have poo pooed their
their offers. Now, themainstream real estate investor
that has to do heavy repairs isnot going to operate on a 5%

(46:20):
margin, that's just notrealistic. Would you like this
investor to list with you afterthey're done? And then of
course, the answer is, Yes.
Okay, well, then, if they'regoing to sell with you, how much
commission are they going tohave to pay? They're gonna be
like, 'Oh, yeah, 6%, thatdoesn't work, Yep'. So, the
numbers are going to bedifferent for Main Street
investors taking on the risk ofa major rehab. This in and out
of the iBuyer going after reallyeasy ones, you know, is a

(46:42):
totally different model. So,I'm, I'm excited because I think
there's some opportunity to getthe Realtors in the main street
investors on the same page. Andthat hyperlocal nuance of, I
think agents are going to befocusing a lot more on selling a
lifestyle, not just a home. So,you'll have a millennial
investor come up to you as abuyer and saying, hey, I want
walkable community, I want to beclose to downtown great schools,

(47:04):
they're going to park it for 12years, that local investors,
sorry, realtor is going to be avery different experience than,
you know, a Zillow Offer. It'sjust an AI driven process in the
background. So, that's why Ithink I'm most excited about the
hybrid model and having thoseboots on the ground in the local
markets as they just got a lotof different Intel and a lot of

(47:25):
qualitative information thatthese big tech companies just
won't have.

Stefan Peterson (47:31):
Exactly. So, the local operators have, you
know, a huge advantageregardless of you know, the
condition of the property or theyou know, the buy box, because
you, you, you know the marketwell enough, you can make
decisions about properties thatare just too risky for, you
know, people who aren't localexperts to make offers and

(47:52):
you'll be able to make strongeroffers. So, we see this all the
time in Denver and with ourother partners in different
markets, too.

Aaron Norris (47:59):
It is interesting to hear you say that they're
focused on not losing as muchmoney so their offers aren't as
aggressive. So, they're notbanking on the market continuing
to go up. So, maybe a little bitmore careful on the buy-side and
the repairs, they're givingthemselves a little bit more
room.

Stefan Peterson (48:16):
Yeah, they've built a little bit of risk into
their model. I, you know, Ican't say exactly why they're
doing that. But I, you know, Ithink they are being cautious.
And, you know, it's paying offfor them. I mean, they're, you
know, they're, they're, they'rebuying more houses, again,
they've been selling housessuccessfully. I'm making a
little margin on that. And, youknow, let's keep in mind, they

(48:40):
iBuyer specifically survivedmarket conditions that a lot of
people said, this is going to bethe end of the iBuyer there's no
way they can survive theseller's market Who would ever
sell their house to an iBuyer,right now? Well, guess what, you
know, it's still working outgreat for for those guys. And,
you know, I'll go back and sayit again, consumers love it.
They're doing a great job forconsumers.

Aaron Norris (49:00):
I laugh Purplebricks went out a few
years ago, and their model was adiscounted brokerage model. But
they got trash talked a lot onthe streets for the kind of
service that they're providing.
So, these PropTech companies arereally focused on the consumer
experience. It's just not adiscounted, yeah, we'll take
pictures and put it on the MLS.
They're solving a way differentproblem than those discount

(49:23):
brokerages.

Stefan Peterson (49:24):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that often isignored. People like to theorize
about whether the iBuyerstrategy or their technology or
whatever, blah, blah, but thefact is, if you're nine out of
10, consumers are are giving youlike a perfect score. You're
you're onto something.

Aaron Norris (49:42):
Can you share a little bit more if we have
Mainstreet real estate investorswho would like to be listed on
on Zavvie as a resource? Isthere a threshold that you're
looking at and how Zavvie makesmoney and who pays for it?

Stefan Peterson (49:55):
Yeah, sure. So, first hold we're looking at just
to be clear on that It'sbasically 10 purchases a year.
You know, we have someflexibility there that's a
guideline. You know, we havebuyers who are buying 1000s of
houses a year, what we're reallylooking for is a demonstrated,
you know, proven reliability interms of, if you make an offer

(50:20):
to buy a house, are you going tofollow through on that offer?
And you know, not just, youknow, let the deal fall through.
You know, it's it's about theconsumer experience, are you
going to deliver a goodconsumers experience and
reliability is part of that. Interms of, you know, how savvy
makes money, the main way wemake money is the brokerages

(50:43):
that license our software, payus a fee for that. And, you
know, that's been our startingpoint. We do however, in many
cases, and you know,increasingly, we are getting a
referral fee from from some ofthe buyers on our site, you
know, that fee ranges from 75 to150 basis points. We don't

(51:07):
require this. But we do thinkit's, it's a win win win win,
when we get that lined up,because really it it results in
we share I should say we sharethat fee with the brokerage. So,
the brokerages have now has anincentive to promote, you know,
the buyer, it could be you asthe buyer. So, the brokerage has

(51:31):
little upside, navigates littleupside, and you're still
getting, you know, a cost ofacquisition that works for you.
So ,that, that is that is apossibility. And we find we're
getting more deal flow when wehave those arrangements in
place. But there's To be clear,there is no cost to sign up.
There's no cost to get started.
What we want when really makesthe gears turn in Zavvie is deal

(51:52):
flow that's what makes usvaluable to our partners.

Aaron Norris (51:58):
So you're actively looking, you're not necessarily
only operating in markets wherethe iBuyer are active, you're
you're willing to considersecondary and tertiary markets.

Stefan Peterson (52:07):
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, that's,
that's really where we have moreneed. I mean, if you're a, you
know, high performing Mainstreetbuyer up in, in, say, Maine, for
example, or anywhere in Ohio,Chicago, you know, jump on our
website right now and sign up,we'd love to talk to you because
we are looking for, for moreoptions in those markets.

Aaron Norris (52:31):
Excellent. Well, I, is there anything else that
we should be watching out for in2021?

Stefan Peterson (52:37):
You know, it's gonna be another big year for
for real estate generally. So Ithink, hopefully, it's a little
smoother experience than lastyear, but it's going to be a
busy year. You know, I thinkthere's opportunity, if you keep
in mind that consumersincreasingly want to sell their
house to a company not on theopen market, they're looking for

(53:00):
those options, they have moreconfidence in those options.
Agents are bringing them thoseoptions. And, you know, I think
I'd say for the main streetcommunity, the number one thing
I see is, if you can, the moreconsumer friendly, you can make
yourself in terms of yourmarketing and the experience you

(53:23):
provide, I think the moresuccessful you're going to be,
rather than just as a pure like,you know, you you've got a
problem, your house got aproblem, I can solve it kind of
fix her, I think the consumerexperience is going to become
more and more important.

Aaron Norris (53:37):
Yeah, I'm looking at some of the Biden
administration's thoughts onpotential programs like the
$15,000 first time program orforgiving college debt. I'm
like, Oh, no, we've got fuelbeing added to the fire that we
don't need on the demand side,right. So..

Stefan Peterson (53:52):
When we really need it.

Aaron Norris (53:54):
Yeah. Like, I don't know how we're gonna keep
up this demand. And then you'vegot all these institutional
buyers that have raised all thismoney that they want to buy. I'm
like, oh, boy, here we go. So,I'm, I'm gonna fall in your
report, I think it's gonnadefinitely be a seller's market
in 2021, I will make sure to...
go ahead.

Stefan Peterson (54:11):
I was going to say the last thing is, you know,
people have been talking abouttechnology, changing real estate
for a long time. And it kindahas been happening. You know,
I've been doing this real estatein tech for 20 years. But now
it's really happening. It's,it's gone all the way down to
the listing. And there's just somuch money coming in that the
industry is really changing andembrace tech. I mean, whatever

(54:33):
it is, whether it's Zavvie orsomething else, you know, maybe
it's something we haven't seenyet, but it's gonna change the
business more than it alreadyhas.

Aaron Norris (54:41):
Is there any other technology in the real estate
space or adjacent arenas thatyou're watching and pretty
excited about?

Stefan Peterson (54:48):
Oh, boy. Uh, you know, blockchain, generally
speaking, I think is actually areally big deal. But do I stay
up late at night thinking aboutit? No, I mean, we definitely
have our Are hands full with allthe new selling options? You
know, there's a few models outthere kind of like fractional
ownership, like buy a part of ahouse sell a part of your house.

(55:11):
I think those are reallyinteresting. I think the least
own programs are going tocontinue to get traction. So,
that's like, you know, HomePartners of America among many
others. I think Yeah, you know,if I was to mention one area, I
think stuff on the buy-side,Zavvie has been very focused on
sellers. But there's a lot ofinnovation coming that is going
to help address that imbalanceof, it's hard to it's really

(55:33):
hard for many people to buy, Ithink there's going to be some
cool solutions coming out to tohelp those buyers.

Aaron Norris (55:39):
Is there any specific companies you can
mention that you've got your eyeon?

Stefan Peterson (55:43):
Well, let's see. Divi is one, Unison is anot
er. There's there's a few besies those, but those are two that
come to mind.

Aaron Norris (55:53):
I haven't I know of Divi. So apparently, I need
o plug in a little bit more onthat because I agree. I see my
riends trying to buy a home riht now. And they're like, h
w do I stay? How do I get myffer accepted? I'm like, you hav
to get your ducks in a row. Anit might be time to work wi
h a Realtor that specialzes in off-market and going a
ter inventory that nobodylse knows about right now. Be

(56:13):
ause it's...

Stefan Peterson (56:14):
A Realtor, a Realtor who's familiar with all
these tools and options. Andthat's, that's what modern
agents do. Most agents are notkeeping up with this stuff.

Aaron Norris (56:23):
You know what, speaking of, do you have a list
of agents on anywhere thatpeople can call if they're
looking for an agent that hasaccess to Zavvie?

Stefan Peterson (56:33):
Yeah, definitely, I can send you that.

Aaron Norris (56:35):
Okay. Is there a link on the website to that I
can direct people to,

Stefan Peterson (56:39):
If you go to the website, there is on the
homepage, you know, a list ofmany of our partners, but I
don't think it's complete.

Aaron Norris (56:48):
Okay.

Stefan Peterson (56:48):
I'll just send you a list of all our partners,
that's probably the best way todo it.

Aaron Norris (56:52):
Perfect. All right, I will make sure to
optimize all the links on allthe shows when this goes up. And
I just really appreciate yourtime. I love this stuff.

Stefan Peterson (57:00):
Yeah, this is fun.And great talking with you.
Good. Good to meet you, too. Ithink we'll we'll be in touch.
As we go forward. I think youknow, we probably got some cool
info to share.

Aaron Norris (57:12):
Deal. Thank you for listening to the Data Driven
Real Estate Podcast, you canfind show notes and links to
some of the resources mentionedin the show at
datadrivenrealestate.com. Clickthat join the community, and
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(57:34):
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