Real Estate Direct Mail Trends 2021 with Andy Detwiler PRINTgenie #DDRE30

Direct mail and technology don't seem to go together, but this week, we welcome Andy Detwiler with Printgenie and GoBig Printing. Andrew brings 30 years of design and technological expertise in both print advertising and web mediums. He was part of the team that built the very first on-demand, variable printing system. More recently, his team launched one-off mail capabilities. Don't miss this week as we explore trends in the direct mail space, the importance of great data, how better data leads to empathetic messaging, and new ways hyperlocal pros are dynamic data to create personalized and powerful campaigns that work.

Get your questions answered on the upcoming show by posting your questions in our community: https://bit.ly/ddre-30

00:00​ The Data Driven Real Estate Podcast Welcomes Andy Detwiler from GoBig Printing and PRINTgenie
00:06​ What is PRINTgenie's ideal customer?
04:25​ How does direct mail changed over time?
06:34​ What percentage of total revenue should I be spending on marketing?
07:54​ What rate of return should my direct mail marketing produce?
13:15​ The list, the mailer, or the message? What's the most critical piece in direct mail campaign?
19:59​ Do small businesses require lots of data therapy?
27:18​ It's possible to trigger a single mail piece from dynamic data?
31:55​ What is variable printing?
45:28​ What makes up a good message?
54:04​ What are direct mail marketing trends we should watch in 2021?

Episode Transcript

Aaron Norris (00:06):
Welcome back to the Data Driven Real Estate
podcast, the podcast for realestate professionals dedicated
to driving business using data.
I'm Aaron Norris, along withSean O'Toole with PropertyRadar
and today in Episode 30, we haveAndy Detwiler with GoBig
printing and PRINTgenie. Thedirect mail game has completely
changed over the last decade. Inthis week's show, we talk about
trends in the direct mail space,including your minimum return
rate you should be looking for,what's more important, your list

(00:29):
or your message, and mostimportantly, how dynamic data
and one-off printing completelychanges the marketing game that
much more. Don't miss this week.
Hey, Andy, welcome to the show.
So, nice to have you. Directmail and technology don't always
seem to go hand in hand. So,I've been very excited about
this show for a while. What isyour most, what is the best

(00:52):
customer look like for you?

Andy Detwiler (00:56):
The best customer I think has a forward-thinking
ideology on how to communicatewith people, I think the best
customer is independent of themarket they're in or the type of
vertical they're in. Has to knowthat you know, the certain basic
elementary idea, idea, ideasbehind. Static mail isn't so

(01:17):
successful, but to know that ifyou do things in a multiple or
sequential or you start tobetter understand the idea
behind touching people manytimes I think that's the type of
customer and client that I thinkis the ideal client, the one
that says, 'Oh, yeah? oh, we cando that? I didn't know that's
available, is that somethingthat's available today? I didn't

(01:37):
know that." And that's the idealclient. Of course, it's the
ideal client that comes in andsays this is specifically what
we want. Like, the clientyesterday knows exactly what he
wants to do. But he doesn't knowhow to get there. He didn't know
what data tools are available.
He doesn't know what automationfunctions are available. His ask
was, his ask at the beginning ofthis year is give me quotes on

(02:00):
125-250 and 500,000 directmailers, letters, and I'm like,
"Great, okay, that we can do."But then what, right? What's
your plan is it just to, youknow, to do that one hit wonder
and, and hope that it works. Andobviously, those types of that's
my favorite client is the onethat's receptive to, you know,

(02:21):
to technology, to automation.
So, and it doesn't have to bereal estate. I mean, we work
with agents, we work withinvestors. Maybe 18, 18 years
ago, we started working withsmall businesses, that's how we
kind of got started. And a lotof it was through the Dan
Kennedy guys and Joe Polish, andthese guys are marketers,

(02:43):
they're good at it. And theircommunication tools are so
necessary in the environment.
And people don't get it. Andthey don't do that they don't
follow those philosophies ofauthentic relationship building.
You know, they're, you know,people come at it with hope
marketing, and one hit wonders.

Aaron Norris (03:02):
I like that 'hope marketing'.

Andy Detwiler (03:04):
It is and, you know, and we're the, the work
that, you know, the first levelof defense when people come in
and say, you know, you know,"what's your, your best
marketing piece?" and it's like,you know, there's a side of me
that has to have that empathyfor. But you got to understand
me too, my empathy andcompassion for assisting someone

(03:26):
who's trying to make a life outof whatever they're doing, and
my compassion to assist themwith my knowledge. Right? So,
when they ask that question,it's like, there's a part of me
that says, Oh, my God, you know,and then it's at the other time,
it's like, well, they don'tknow. And most people don't. And
it's like, any. And I actually,I did this conversation

(03:48):
yesterday with someone, and hespoke a lot about the 80-20 rule
and firing yourself. And just,it's a, it's a, not necessarily
on coaching in the environmentof real estate or investor or
agent or small business, butjust in general, as a business
sense, as a CEO, or as anentrepreneurial person, you
know, how you get yourself outof the way. He calls it, like

(04:11):
the Fire Yourself Challenge,because you're just consumed
with so many things. So, when,you know, when someone asks,
what's your most favorite piece,or what's your most successful
piece, it's like that just opensup a, you know, a lot of
opportunity to have aconversation.

Sean O'Toole (04:25):
Y'all know everybody, everybody wants the
easy button, right? They want tocome in, they want to spend $100
on a 200 piece mailing and buy ahouse with $100,000 a profit or
get a listing or get fivelistings, right? They think one
200 piece mailing, you know,they spend 50 cents a piece or
whatever it's $100, that's a bigthing and it's it's not close.

(04:49):
So, walk us through, right. Set,set everybody's realistic
expectations on you know usingdirect mail What is kind of, you
know, reasonable response rates?
How many pieces? Do you need tosend the same person? Like, big
picture? What is... what doesthat look like today?

Andy Detwiler (05:10):
Sure. And just, just to be fair, and
transparent, and I can't beanything other than that I am
what I am, you know, you get tothis stage or otherwise, and you
are what you are, right, nomatter how you paint it. I've
discovered that in the, in thetwo decades that we've been
doing this, and the half abillion pieces of mail, we, we

(05:36):
found that people don'tgenerally come back to us, as
we're not an agency, they don'tcome back to us and say, this
work, this didn't. They do, theycomplain about it. But they
didn't come to us and complain,but they go to a lot of people
come in through us throughcoaching companies, right. So,
they're learning from someoneelse. That's telling them what
and how to do things, and theycome in through us. And then

(05:57):
that sets up the expectation,right, so we we define ourselves
not as an agency level product,we're a DIY tool that was,
that's what we've always done.
But we are there to assist, andthen to pass on the knowledge
that we've learned across, youknow, these, a lot of mail. And
so, what I've done is inconversation with, with coaches,
and pros and consultants, youlearn a lot. And I, I try to

(06:17):
paint this picture for thosepeople that I do have
conversation with. And if I dosome coaching, it's not to coach
as far as other than passing onmy knowledge of what I've
learned, but you're not payingme for coaching. That's not what
we do. But if I were to paintthat vision board, for people
that were looking at direct mailas a, as a tool for
communication and marketing, Iwould set the expectation that

(06:42):
there's no one hit wonder,generally speaking, at the end
of the year, nevermind piecesand count things like that,
you're gonna spend roughly 30,35% on your marketing, that's
what it's gonna cost you at theend. So, back to the
conversation about.

Sean O'Toole (06:59):
35% of your total revenue?

Andy Detwiler (07:01):
35% of your total revenue is going to be spent on
marketing and the numbers, it'schanged. So, I'm gonna start at
a big, you know, at a 10,000foot mark, and then I can bring
it back into a guy who justwants to do direct mail. So, at
the 10,000 foot mark, throughconversations with coaches and
consultants, and people thatmake a living, where people do
call them back and say theresponse rates, because they

(07:22):
don't call GoBig, or PRINTgenieor otherwise to say, this
worked, and this is how many andthen we don't track it and say,
well, then this guy did the samecard here, we don't do that. But
in the, in the years of doingthis, what we've find is that
35% of their gross or theirdollars are spent on marketing,
you can summarize it as in amore of a granular level that if
I send out 1000, you know,pieces of mail, postcards, or

(07:45):
other letters or otherwise,gonna hopefully get around that
1% that's what your goal is that1%. So, if you kind of use that
as your, your, you know, stakein the ground. Now, I'll tell
you the variants on that too,but ...

Sean O'Toole (07:56):
10 calls. 10 calls on 1000 pieces. One percent.

Andy Detwiler (07:59):
That's what you do. There you go. So, then you
can do the basic, you know, youcreate your, your, your vision,
board of success and opportunityas a new entrepreneurial kind of
guy. And remember, we see a lotof new investors and oth
rwise and seasoned people andthey know better but, but if you
do your 1000 postcards, you getthat, like you said 10, 12, 14
alls. Now remember, of the 10r 10 calls, or eight to 12 cal

(08:22):
s or otherwise, there's proably five or six that just are
saying, you know, in a fast acton want to get you know, in the
investor space, what do you givme from my house, and the
e's no, there's no feel good momnt, it's a quick call, it's col
and callous, there's not tha, you know, that connection, tha
authentic relationship, it'just a quick thing. So, t
's, that's gonna wipe out jus, you know, six people right the

(08:45):
e. But then after all that, andthe hits and misses and the con
ersations, you're going to getto the two or three. And so, if
ou get that two or three out of000, that are like, 'Wait a sec
nd, I've got something going onere'. Now you can start to go
nd look at your numbers. And thewhat will happen is after you
and you should send another 100, it could go to the same peo
le because a different perentage is going to open. And the
because of time and cirumstances a different set of tho

(09:08):
e people will open, right? Andthen whatever at the end of tha
day, you're going to get anoher 10, 12 calls and of tho
e two or three maybe that areserious, then so, now you end
up with this, you know you dohat third time your 3000 pos
cards or maybe 30 calls youve honed in on your con
ersation, and you're left witlike a pool of six, you kno
, golden tickets, right? So, ofhe six in your hand, what can

(09:30):
you do to them to retain theto continue the con
ersation with them, you kno, to sell something, to flip som
thing and in our space priarily, it's a flip and if you
look at the average it's somwhere eight grand or som
thing on a flip or something andin on an average national ave
age, and you go 'Okay, cool. I sent what 1500 bucks on 3000 pos

(09:51):
cards', I, you know, I did dodeal, I did whatever you're doi
g in the investor space, I didmake my seven to 8000 bucks. And
so, you started to think of it,okay? That in a long-winded fas
ion will allow you to undrstand, you know, the vision boa
d that we try to set up for youSo, now, then you get on the

(10:13):
variance of the one, right? Theyou can break down to Well, why
wasn't it one and a half? Whywas it, yesterday, this guy, he
id 15,000 letters he was teling me, they had .03, so a thi
d of a percent.

Sean O'Toole (10:26):
Right.

Andy Detwiler (10:27):
And so, then that led us to other conversations,
which was okay. Let's take alook at your audience. Was it,
you know, in the investor space,was it high equity absentee
owners? Or what was theirdistress level? Was there
anything in there that wouldhave been at that, that would
increase the response mechanismof that person receiving that

(10:49):
thing that they got in the mail,right? And so.

Sean O'Toole (10:52):
Below 1%, you want to start looking at other
factors like your making mistakein your, in your execution?

Andy Detwiler (11:00):
That's what I did. And so, you start to point
that out, and I said, you know,better that we, you understand
that like back to your question,or on my favorite customer, this
was him, right? This would be myfavorite, where you can have an
educated, articulateconversation about the and the
realistic expectations aboutlife, right, and receiving a

(11:22):
letter. That's, you know, thatresonates with you at the time
of distress. So, get into that,you know, he did 15,000, no
vanilla type of mailers it wasmaybe high equity, or maybe
someone was absentee owner orsomething. But it wasn't
anything that was speaking thelanguage of their pain at that
moment, there was no empathetic,compassionate perspective. The

(11:44):
piece he wasn't it was relevantin the, in the, in the
terminology that we use tosomeone that has a house. But it
wasn't, it wasn't relative tothe fact that, geez, he's in
distress, or he's a tax liensituation or probate, or he's
got some real pain going onthat's real life. And he's,
he's, he doesn't give a crapabout the things that he got in

(12:06):
his mail. He's just going, youknow, but, but if something
lands, at the time that he iswilling to receive it, right has
to happen, then it can't happenthe day before, has to happen at
that moment in time that he'sinterested in receiving it. He
opens it up. And he reads aheartfelt compassionate,
empathetic, empatheticperspective on how this person

(12:31):
can help this house, homeowneror otherwise, where their
situation, but that content hasto be relative and specific and
timely. And get past thegatekeeper to look not spammy.
You know, and so now, you know,obviously, you hit a nerve,
right? So, for me, this is mejust saying, Okay, how do we,

(12:52):
how do we engage into all thoseelements of opportunity into one
piece of mail, that he gets itin a timely, you know, fashion
that speaks his language that'srelative to that person that's
emotionally connected, andpersonal to that person, right?
So, that's my challenge, right?
And so, if you look at, yeah,sorry, Sean, I just.

Sean O'Toole (13:15):
Let's say out of all of them, right, like, so,
you know, you get the, thequality of the piece itself,
right. The, is it printed? Is itglossy? You know, like, we can
get down to the mail stuff,right? There's the, the list
that you use, right? And thenthere's the message that you
send, and you know, I'm in thelist business, right, you're in
the printing business. Would youagree that really the most

(13:38):
important of the three is themessage, and probably the
hardest? I mean, what we do isimportant, I'm not saying it
isn't, but that message piece toyour, what you're just talking
about, is the one where I seemore mistakes made than anywhere
else.

Andy Detwiler (13:52):
The message is, is everything that I talked
about in my, my authenticrelationship, and empathetic
perspective on human to humaninteraction, right. So, if it
doesn't resonate with you atthat moment, and you're not
speaking the language of thechallenges of that person, then

(14:12):
it doesn't have to be in thechallenges of that person in
reference to real estate. But inanything that you're marketing
or communicating, especiallythrough, you know, direct mail
marketing, right, and whenyou're direct response
marketing, right, so thatmessage has to be clear. And I,
you know, going back to thoseguys, Dan Kennedy, I mentioned
him a lot because, you know,2020-ish years ago, I started

(14:35):
listening to them, and they're,you know, they introduced me to
that authentic relationship, youknow, kind of conversation and
they did yellow, you know,yellow letters on handwritten
things. And, you know, and sincethen, of course, I think that's
a bit saturated, and there'slots of reasons for that. You
know, and it doesn't have to beyellow line paper. It just has
to be authentic. I mean, youthat's the thing I got over with

(14:58):
people. I'm like I use thisexample a lot. I'm like, look, I
get a lot of seeds, and I justget seeds all the time. So, I
get these things, and I openthem up, and I look at it, and I
see how people are marketing.
And I've never seen it before.
And I just look at it. And I, Igive them a rating, you know,
because it's a DIY system, youknow, we you get in and you can
make your own stuff. What fontdid you use? What color did you
use? And I looked at it, andit's like, so here's this one.

(15:20):
Well, that's, I mean, prettybasic, right? So, it's pretty
basic. So, here's the challenge,right? So, these people saying,
I want a yellow line paper, it'slike, wait, you don't even know
it's yellow? Until you openedit? And if it doesn't look like
it's openable, because it wassent from your Aunt Sue, and it
you know, it looks like spam.
How do you know it's a yellowline and then what, what's that
differentiator that's going tomake them open it versus this
one, this guy gets his you know,as much of a good grade as the

(15:44):
guy with the yellow line paper.
So, that leads you to, you know,kind of like, you know, the
leadership and the marketing,people that are speaking the
language of, you know, youshould say, you know, send out
yellow line paper, you know,what the reality is a good coach
or mentor or someone you workwith, or an agency or something

(16:06):
is going to teach you the valuesof authentic voice, like you
said, right. So, but back towhat you're saying, yes, the
voice has to be, you know,resonate with them in a timely
fashion. The data is so key,though, and you can't this
regard the, you're in data, andI'm in mail, but your, it starts
with data, right? And so, ifyou're picking data that's not,

(16:28):
you know, not relative to thesituation you're trying to go
for, and it doesn't speak thesame correspond with language or
speaking, then it's going to bea mismatch, right? So, yes,
data, data.

Sean O'Toole (16:41):
We launched a feature called Insights that so
you build a list, you know,vacant absentee owner,
foreclosure, whatever it is,right, you build your list, we
give you dozens of data pointsabout that list, like how old
are they? On average, right?
What education level do theyhave? What's their income level?
What kind of house is it, right?
Because what the key there is touse that data to, to come up

(17:05):
with a message that's morerelevant to the person. And, you
know, I think that's, that'sreally key. And, you know, it's
something you don't see very,very often in a lot of these
pieces. And, you know, to yourpoint, the guy sending the
thing, and it just doesn't land.

Andy Detwiler (17:23):
I would say, you know, so, I've learned long ago,
right? So, we started outprinting at 20 years ago, we
built this print on demandstuff. And so, it was not soon
after that we realized howimportant the data data is.
Right? So, and we realized thatI mean, we used to license it
out to title companies, and theygive it out to agencies and
stuff like that. Agents, agents,agents, moreover, was where we

(17:47):
started out. We wanted anybodyin a neighborhood or Every Door
Direct Mail, and it was like,can I do email? I mean, then it
gets off. But so, the point was,it's like, there was no
understanding of the value ofdata, there wasn't, it didn't
resonate with agents,specifically, because that's
where we started out, it wasreally the investor world, what
we started out with in 2005-ish,with Dean Graziosi, and their

(18:08):
understanding of data and theimportance of data. So, then
when you get into... What'sthat?

Sean O'Toole (18:13):
I still get more Every Door Direct Mail than I
get targeted mail from agents.

Andy Detwiler (18:19):
It isn't because of convenience, is it? Because I
mean, I always say like, okay,,I I'm telling you what, that
guy there. And my neighbor, myneighbor here, and I are worlds
apart, worlds apart. So, if youhit me with the same message as
that guy, it's not gonnaresonate with one of us depends
on what you do. And it alsocomes down to was it
handwritten? Or it was a graphiclooking? Or was it typeset? Or

(18:41):
was it red ink or blue ink? He'sgonna read something. I know how
he is differently than I am,right? We're just two different
people. So, if you send thatsame message to the same people
in that neighborhood, it'sprobably gonna fall short. But
one of the powers, like you saidwith the insights is that if you
could look at the, you know, theelements associated with the
general populace from a dataset, like you're suggesting on

(19:03):
Insights, that gives you thatextra ability to better
understand the people that arereceiving your mail. So, if you
could speak to that morespecifically, because look,
we're all egotistic. You know,we all like to see our name,
right. But then if it resonateswith us specifically, that's
just that, that's going to bethat moment of, Oh, you know,

(19:26):
you hear it in speeches. And you'Yeah, he spoke to me', you know
what I mean? And that's whatyou're trying to do. And you can
do that with data. And then you,will and then you can make it
you can automate it. And you canuse dynamic data and the fun
stuff, right. But how do you dothat? That's the magic, you
know, and that, listen, 20years, I've been trying to get
to a point of understandingdata, telling agents that you

(19:48):
need to do more than justsending out the next, everybody
in the neighborhood because youthink that we're all the same.
We're not we're uniquelydifferent.

Sean O'Toole (19:55):
Just sold.

Andy Detwiler (19:56):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly that so.

Aaron Norris (19:59):
Which data therapy we're doing for people who call?
Do they? Are you blowing theirmind, because you're saying,
Hey, you know, you don't have tosend everybody? How about we
just send the owner occupants inthe neighborhood? Or absentee?
Do they even know what'spossible?

Andy Detwiler (20:15):
My conversation when, when I do have them with
people that ask and then arewilling to listen to me, it
starts out in a same thing, youhave to start out that big
level, it's like, you know,generally speaking now, because
about, you know, what we can dowith automation and dynamic
data, and really, you know,understanding the data and doing
specific things at a smallerlevel, like one, it's a lot

(20:38):
different than the conversationsI've had in the past, right? So,
think GoBig printing, GoBig,right? So, bulk mail, give me
10,000 give me 100,000, right.
Just do absent, nevermind,absentee owners just do high
equity, or don't even do totalhigh equity, right. And I'm not
saying I'm being I'm driving,I'm being facetious to drive a
point. Point being in the daysof, and even going back to you

(21:01):
in foreclosure days, right. Soyou, you focused on that. And
that was a very niche specificor a world that you could help
and assist in that. But thenthrough those years after, you
know, you look at like thesaturation level of investors,
especially there, but they wouldcome in and say what should I
do, and it's like, well just getabsentee owner high up when he
lives. There you go, you know,hit 10,000 people split, you

(21:21):
know, split mail and send it outonce every, you know, once a
month, at least whatever thesame piece, but just divide it
up and send it out. That's fine.
That's a good budget, go forthat use that 1% methodology
that was saying, Yeah, but thenit becomes a little bit more
like my conscious is saying,wait a second. Don't, don't give
me 20,000. Because then theresponsibility, and all this is

(21:41):
on me to have a performance,regardless of what you send, or
the data you pick, I feel likeGod, this guy, he's trying to
supply, you know, food andmortgage for his family, what
can I possibly do to drive himthe right direction, so, that
he's not gonna, it's not gonnafall short, and then sell me
short. And he's not gonna comeback and say, 10 people open and

(22:03):
it was like, and then I'mmiserable. So, back to your back
to your question, what do I dowhen now I say, look, take that
list of whatever 1000. And giveme a list of 200 I'd rather have
200 or 100, that are reallyfocused on what you're trying to
say, you know, Don't give methat, that 50,000. I'll take it

(22:24):
and we'll do it through bulkmail. And we do have some, you
know, cool stuff with Googlestreetview and stuff. And tons
of people do it, they it's agood tire kicker, and people
call up but but hone in on thatlist, you know, stack that list
into a tight list, speak thelanguage of the people. So, I
kind of got off, I got off trackhere.

Sean O'Toole (22:42):
I would use the term segmenting, right? So,
like, either you're gonna takethat owner occupied list, right?
So, rather than looking at now,look at that list and go, Oh,
you know, what, we've got a bigcontingent of, you know, single
female owners, right, themessage we're probably going to
send to them is maybe differentthan, you know, to the other

(23:03):
group, or we've got some thathave 100% equity and other just
have a little equity, like, theyhave different needs.

Andy Detwiler (23:10):
Exactly.

Sean O'Toole (23:11):
And, and so, taking that big list, okay,
we're gonna do absentee owners,but take a little bit extra time
and break that into five lists,and with more targeted message,
and you're gonna differentiateyourself a lot from the
competition, who's sending thatevery own, you know, absentee
owner.

Andy Detwiler (23:27):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, anyway, and actually,when you say that segment or
something, I do. It, obviously,it resonates with me, because if
you, you know, in the evolutionof an entrepreneurial type of
company, and tech forward typeof driver me, you go back into
early days of direct mail, andit was like, just the fact that

(23:49):
you could edit a document onlinein 1999 was fantastic.

Sean O'Toole (23:55):
Right.

Andy Detwiler (23:56):
The fact that you could send, you know, something

Sean O'Toole (23:58):
You have to type set it

Andy Detwiler (24:00):
Yeah. I mean, really, it was that when, for
me, right. So, as a, as acreative, creative director at
that moment, there's eight of usin a room, and they're like,
Well, how do we visualize thistool, this print on demand tool
that people can do? I'm like,Oh, my God, let's give them they
can create text boxes, and theycan create image boxes, and they

(24:21):
can put it there and they canchange what it says. And the
evolution of, of understandingwhat people's demands are in
technology. And so, you realizeyou soon realize that if you
give them too many tools, or toomany opportunities within that
postcard or letter, even thoughyou're prewriting it they're
going to spend time, it shouldbe blue, no, it should be red,

(24:41):
should I make it green? Maryshould underline this one. And
it's like, Wait is that I got toget lunch, the kids, they got to
pick them up. I'll finish later.
And so, they spend more timetrying to do it. Our evolution
has been like Okay, okay, so wegive them a great tool that they
can customize and edit. Let'sjust, let's, let's now lock down
some things. So, they can'tchange everything. But if you
want to change what it says,don't change the font. We've

(25:02):
already dictated that thisshould be bold, don't make it
curlies. And then keep it bold,should be bold. And then you go,
okay, lock that down. But ifthey want to change something
they can. And then the evolutionof time became, wait a second,
let's get a guru, a coach, a guywho's really doing this that has
to sell it to other people thatmake money living and living
doing it. Let's take his, hiscopy, you know, written

(25:26):
material, and then give it tohis audience, Dean Graziosi,
right. And it was one of thefirst guys that said, look, I've
already got the copy, right?
It's just it was word docs,something like that. But we're
designers and tech forwardthinking, it's like, oh, let's
take your documents that werePowerPoints and word docs, and
whatever, and convert them to aneditable thing online, but

(25:47):
locked down certain areas. Andthat led us to, okay, now, we've
got knowledge, copyright, youknow, copywriting and knowledge,
what works and call to actionsfrom this other company, or any
other guru type of guy. And thenwe can put it into the confines
of a document, a letter or apostcard that they can add and
customize, if they felt like it,included the personalization and

(26:09):
stuff, but then you'd be lockeddown. Now there's a win win,
they're not going to spend a lotof time doing it, you're giving
them pre created content thatthey can edit if they want to,
but they're not going to changethe substance of what it should
look like or feel like. So, thatwas the evolution of time. And
then it became and then as timegrows, you know, I'm telling
you, this is now and we'll kindof talk about the automation and

(26:29):
data and then driving data tothose, you know, specific
audiences. But so, imagine thebulk mail and lots of
customization to wait, tightenit up a little bit, give them
something that's already done.
So, they're not thinking aboutit, because they don't know. And
then through time and evolution,people start to go, 'Wait a
minute, I'm too busy. Can I pushit, you know, I got to do it on
my phone, I'm too busy'. Itdoesn't happen. You know, it's
like, I knew or sensed it orfelt it early on to print one, I

(26:51):
wanted to do that forever. Andso, only about two and a half
years ago, we started buildingthe ability to print that one.
And then it was like during thatcourse of evolution. Now, you
know, we're the 15th 16th yearof being in mail, it was like,
well, we can print one now. Now,how can we drive that one,
right? Are we gonna force a userto drive one? We can. There's

(27:14):
lots of ways they can do it.

Sean O'Toole (27:18):
Hang on one second, I just want to like
point out what a big deal thisis, right? This is you're
talking about how to print one,right? Like I...

Andy Detwiler (27:26):
Thank you, Sean.

Sean O'Toole (27:27):
By the way, but you know, like, I don't think
people realize like, right,there really aren't any other
services like yours, like, youknow, I know, one or two. But,
you know, 99.9% of the directmail houses out there aren't
going to do anything for youwithout a quantity of 100, 500,

(27:48):
1000, right?

Andy Detwiler (27:50):
Yeah.

Sean O'Toole (27:51):
And, you know, we've worked really hard to,
like, have alerts and stuff tolet people know about individual
new opportunities. But what doyou do to automate that, like,
you gotta handwrite a letter,because there hasn't been
services. And, you know, youguys recently launched that. And
I think it's a really big deal.
And so, when you're talkingabout print one, I just want to

(28:13):
say like, I'm, I'm super excitedabout it. super glad you guys
have brought that to market.

Aaron Norris (28:20):
I was gonna actually back up and say, can we
can we define real quick,because I think people still
don't know what variableprinting is. And then what on
demand means?

Andy Detwiler (28:28):
Oh, man, so.
Well, first, I had to saythanks, Sean, for pausing me, my
wife would do this. We learnedit a long time ago. We she's
like, someone said at a time. Imean, we did we ran another
business long ago together. Andsomeone suggested that when one
person over talks the otherperson, they just do a gentle
one of these and they hold it attheir side, and that the other
person should acknowledge this,pause and quit. So, thank you,

(28:51):
that's, that's, you doing thisfor me, because what happens is
this, like, you know, to, I'vewanted to print one for ever,
and we're talking, you know, howyou can do in positioning back
then, you know, we're talking2001. And we couldn't do it tech
wise, but we didn't do it. Itwas that what is what has to

(29:11):
happen to make that happen? Isthere enough called
understanding and it you know,do people want to do it? So,
yes.

Sean O'Toole (29:18):
It's really difficult. None of the pre-press
systems, none of the systemsthat they sell out there to
printers, none of them do thisby default. Because you got to
take one piece from thiscustomer, one piece from this
customer, because you're stillrunning a printer that 1000s of
pieces at a time you're notgoing and running one piece. So,
to make that work is istechnically difficult.

Andy Detwiler (29:40):
It's, it's, it's exceptionally difficult also,
right exactly like you said. So,there is one thing to be able to
drive that type of product or apostcard to a printer that can
print one that the printer canremain in business, right.

Sean O'Toole (29:54):
Right.

Andy Detwiler (29:55):
Then there is the pre sorting and the costs
associated with it and then theeverything you can imagine But
that's exactly what it is. Andit is that that that positioning
or impositioning of these thingsto get as many as you can on a
sheet of paper, because in thedigital world, right, so, you're
printing on well it depends onthe Rico's or otherwise, but 25
by 12 inch pieces of paper. So,how many can you get up so that

(30:16):
at the end of that, you know, atyour cost to print one, you
know, can you stay in business?
That's, it is magical, right?
And so, one thing that I've kindof figured out, though, is that
so far, I mean, even stemmingback to the early, early days,
when, you know, a programmerwould walk in, and it was just
24 something and you'd startsaying, well, we needed to be
able to do these kinds ofthings. And they, they do a mock

(30:37):
up or something and they comeback, and then they accomplish
the goal that you asked him for.
It was like, I've been teasedwith the super talented talents
of people from the get go thatnow I am so enamored by it, I
mean, it still blows me away.
But the fact is, there's almostanything we asked to do, they're
doing. And it's like, you cansay things and, and they knock
it out, the ability to print oneis huge. And it's opened up a

(31:00):
wide, wide world for us as acompany. And back to do case in
point, printing postcards is onething, printing letters, and
then double sided letters, andthen letters with, you know,
writing on the front of theenvelope to one person, you
know, even first class for 76cents. I mean, that's, that's

(31:21):
the one part that really getsthe agent side of our company
gets really they're like youkidding, with this new API and
one offs, it's like, that's howyou can do it, because you're
saving on quality checks andcontrols, and you're saving on
job tickets and, you know, QCand things like that. It's an
API as soon as you hit it, it'slike an email. It just goes,

(31:41):
it's it's goes. And it's messwith everything. But so, thanks
for the pause there. But havingsurpassed that, right, so, now
we have the ability to printone. And then back to what you
said here. And two, would youasked about variable printing?
Is that what you said?

Aaron Norris (31:54):
Because I know you were at the forefront of that.
And some people don't know whatthat term means. Even so,

Andy Detwiler (31:59):
I see, you know, that's just knowing too much,
right? So actually, honestly,when we we merged with a company
called Impact, in 2011, we camewith with lots of variables. So
we could map out variables is amail merge, you know, or term.
So, data, data from your profileand or the person receiving the
information is data, that datathrough mail merge can be

(32:21):
applied to that document thatyou send to the printer, such as
dear Mark you're married...

Sean O'Toole (32:26):
Personalization, personalization, right? Each,
each piece has things that arepersonal to that person, their
address, their name, you know,their lender, whatever it is
that it's personalized to, to bemore relevant.

Andy Detwiler (32:41):
That's exactly it. Ed McMahon, right, you know,
Publishers Clearing Housegiveaway you, you know, Sean,
you may have won $500,000. S,othat, you know, but here's the
thing. So that that stuff isthat variable data
personalization has been goingon for so long. But then how do
you give it to just a guy offthe street that wants to order
something online, right now youcan go in and go big, and you

(33:02):
can move the variables around,and you can personalize it any
way you want. You can throw inthe property, you want to buy
the city, you want to buy allthat good stuff, right? It's all
it's all there now, right? So,anyway, the variable data, the
mail merge, the personalizationis all on a piece of paper, you
know, whether it's a letter or apostcard or otherwise, yes. So,
then it becomes like, well, howcan we take this ability to

(33:24):
print one, add thepersonalization, give the user
the ability to customize it,keep it cost effective. And then
like, back to the kind of what Iwas talking about where you try,
I try to do all I can to assistpeople with having successful
marketing. So, the, the, youknow, the onus is on me, or it's
like, I don't want to say justsend me 50,000, I want to say,
Wait, let's send 50, let's send50, but hit them five times,

(33:49):
let's send 50 and hit them fivetimes, because we know response
rates go up exponentially, themore you hit them, and then we
know time and circumstanceschange all things. So, it has to
be relevant, timely, and getthere when they want to receive
it. And then how can that dataspeak exactly the language that
you're trying to communicate onthat piece of paper? You know,
so they open it at the time theywant it to? So, so, all the

(34:11):
magic starts to happen, then youstart to go, Well, what are the
additional functions that we canprovide to have that home run?
Right? Is it graphic? Is ithandwritten? Is it authentic and
real? Is it spammy? All thosethings, right? And then you
start thinking about thedynamics of people and how
uniquely different we all are.
And so, how can I, how can I doa mailer? Let's say we're

(34:31):
similar in our home value, we'resimilar in our equity, we're
similar in our age, you know,and it's like, all those things.
So, that probably he might getthe same mailer as I would. But
then it becomes if he gotsomething that's might be
handwritten or something. He'sprobably maybe it's gonna
resonate with him, but I don'tknow maybe he's just not going
to be receptive to it. Hissensory emotions are not going

(34:53):
to be connected to what I'msaying. Because of what it looks
like because we're judgmental,right. We are And it's like he
picks it up. He's like, this istrash. Like why do yellow bandit
signs work in the sound? Right?
Why do you know handwrittenletters work here? Why doesn't
it work there? So then you startto go Wait a second. I got that
yellow letter at the same timehe did. But I'm responsive to

(35:15):
it. That's great. Oh, wow, thisguy can help me this sound this
guy sounds like you speak fromthe heart. He's sharing with me.
What's in his tool belt abouthis ability to assist me. He's
got a, you know, hammer, I needa hammer at that time. You know,
whatever it is. I'm just using,you know, I mean, yeah. So, but
then, then a week, a monthpasses, right? That guy never

(35:37):
looked at that letter. BecauseYeah, he's that guy. And then
month passed, I was alreadyresponding to that letter,
because I was responsive to it.
But maybe I didn't do anything.
And a month passes and I can getsomething else. I don't know if
it's graphic now, or it has adifferent? I mean, I don't know,
like, who knows people, right.
But it might be that we havethis really cool, you know,
smooth, silky Apple finish onour cardstocks. Maybe that's

(36:00):
what got them. That almost seemslike a sales plug right there,
right? Full color, full bleed,personalization. Right? That
wasn't a, that wasn't asenseless blog. But the fact is,
is it's true. It's super true.
I'm not I'll share with you anexample in a second. But so a
month passes, he didn't respondto the first one, he got the

(36:23):
second one. And he held it forthat second, maybe it was the
texture of the paper, maybe thatit was looked like it was
written from Aunt Sue. And maybeit was graphic, I don't know.
But now what you've done isyou've increased your ability to
get him to respond just for thesame effort of doing bulk mail.
Now, you've hit him, you know,with two things. Now, let's
just, I mean, I get labor onthis thing. And I don't want to

(36:45):
bore you, but just say, youknow, whatever, he didn't
respond to it. But the thirdtime, something happened in his
life that made that difference,that he respond to that third
touch, right. And that was justbecause in the same sequence of
events of me pushing that onebutton, he received those three
to five to seven things. And ithappened to be on the third one,
he answered on it, right. So,that leads us into like, you

(37:07):
know, data and automation, theevolution of direct mail and
direct response marketing,right. So, you know, I told you
how we started, and it was likebulk mail, and then
personalization and customizingit, making it tighter and
tighter and tighter. And I thinkeventually, now, it's all the
way down to one, one letter thatreally resonates with that
person, you know, and so even tolike, and just actually Sean to,

(37:31):
to, to benefit, both of us,actually, for being forward
thinking in this. I think wesense that coming. I think we
tried so hard to get it to wrapinto, into, you know,
PropertyRadar with a time, youknow, but however we got there
where we're at now, and you canaccomplish the goals, I think
that, you know, with automationand dynamic data, and we can
talk more specifically aboutthat. Now, I think it's a good

(37:52):
segway to do that. Not to takeover Aaron as.

Aaron Norris (37:56):
Oh, no please, that's where I wanted to go.

Andy Detwiler (37:59):
I can't stop, can't stop me, you gave me the
podium. So, it's my passion, youknow, so.

Sean O'Toole (38:07):
But we've done a unique, unique thing there,
right? Because we've, we've I,you know, 100% online with you,
and we kind of found each otherafter and we're like, like, I'm
doing this and you're like, Oh,my God, I want to do this. And
it was last, yeah, there's achocolate and peanut butter
moment.

Andy Detwiler (38:23):
Exactly that.

Sean O'Toole (38:25):
Because, you know, I've long felt these kind of
triggered events, I mean, backto the foreclosures, right. You
know, there's new notices everyday, but it's one or it's five,
or it's 10. And you want to getthat, that piece off and start
that campaign. And then there'sfive more tomorrow. And there's,
you know, rather than waitingfor a whole month, you have 500,
right? It's nice to like, justhave this and have it

(38:48):
automatically go in the backend. So, you don't have to go
run an export, you know, put allthe things together, send it
over, get break, get your pieceback for approval. And then you
know, it's like two weeks later,you finally sent your piece and,
you know, just like this isterrible. And so, we built on

(39:10):
our side, we we built thissystem where we can send out
these new things as soon as theyhappen right one at a time
through an interface calledZapier, and you guys
fortunately, also said, Hey,we're building a system where we
can print things one at a timethrough an interface called
Zapier, and you know, prettycool, pretty cool marriage, so.

Andy Detwiler (39:32):
I agree. I mean, you know, like my wife would
always say, it's like, it's allit's all timing. It's all meant
to happen when it's supposed tohappen. When we, I mean, through
the process of me trying tofigure out the best thing I can
do for my customers. And really,at the end of the day, I'm
solving the challenges thatpeople are bringing to me, and

(39:55):
I'm, I'm trying to make it in away that's going to be have the
good results that we want tohave happen, but also get them
off my back, right? So, don'tdon't ask me those questions
twice, because I'm giving you asolution that answers it for
you, right. And if I get enoughpeople saying, I want to make my
own postcard, I want to make myown letter. I like what you

(40:15):
wrote, I can write it better. Ican solve that challenge now
with them being able to buildwhatever they want in our
builder. And then they say, waita minute, what's your minimum?
Look, I got 85. Can I print it?
Now? You got to do 100. Go to Imean, I sound like I'm
downplaying GoBig. But it'slike, No, you got to do 100 over
here, which is perfectly fine.
Do your 100, right. People doright. But now it's like, Wait a

(40:37):
second, the challenges of what'syour best mailer? How often
should I send it? Should I dotext? I heard emails a good
thing, what's ringlessvoicemail, right? This guy
selling this system? This guydoes everything. This is the
best data. I've heard this data.
And I've seen it all. And I'vebeen around probably longer than
most, right? So, you know,right? So, 20 years in the

(40:59):
space, at least in marketing 25or almost 30. So, then you start
to go away. How can I solvethese challenges in an
automation function? And so, itwas like I always, while at one
point, I realized once Irealized, you can't just be a
printing island, I need data,right? And so, then you start to
think about, okay, how toincorporate data and then speak
the language of data that peoplewould like, and then you and

(41:21):
then it was you and actuallywasn't really you as much as it
was a couple other friends ofmine that used you guys, right?

Sean O'Toole (41:30):
So many customers, mutual customers.

Andy Detwiler (41:32):
Mutual customers, and they're like, Okay, so
here's the scenario, theyunderstood data. They were they
did agency stuff, agent stuff,residential stuff, flipping,
buying, selling. And then whatthey do is they would get, they
would put in their, they createtheir lists, PropertyRadar,
they, they create their specificlists. And in this case, it was,
I don't know if it was divorce,it was or was, but getting to

(41:55):
it. It was I think it was women,he could he's isolated that that
had a certain whatever it was,now I'm forgetting the filter
set. But here's what wouldhappen. He would get a text
message from you guys, or it wasan email. And he had set it up,
and he's getting these things.
Oh, here's another one. Oh, youknow, he bragged about it. He
like 'I got another one, ding!ding!' And he's like, hey, got

(42:16):
another one. And throughout theday, I'll get three more. And
I'm thinking, Okay, so we're ata conference, actually, when
this originally kind of started,and it was, it was a little bit
like, it's great. And then what,but time time pass anyway, so,
he gathered these 10 or 11,dings that he gotten today, give
it to his acquisition,acquisitions gal, she put it
together and then do some manualefforts to get in touch with

(42:38):
that person in his, you know, toexport it as fast as possible,
then won't happen is he set updifferent things. So, now he has
several different farm lists, orotherwise, he's getting 10 from
here, and six from there, andnine from there. So, eventually,
he was hitting his 100 mark. So,he gathered them in the week,
submit his mailing, and then doa mailing through us. And it was
like, that was that aha moment.

(43:00):
That was like.

Sean O'Toole (43:01):
So much work for him to do that.

Andy Detwiler (43:03):
So much work. But he was so happy about it. So,
that you can do. You handed himwhat he asked to receive. And it
was like, so, he was gettingexactly what he asked. And you
gave him that through, you know,through your through automation
and through notice, it was anemail and it said, Hey, here's
this person that fell into thesituation you're in. So, then it
became like, Okay, so how can wetake that, that, that that

(43:25):
information that he's capturedat that moment, and then
automatically send him whatevercorrespondence he wants to send
them? You know, and so that was,I mean, it was really, I mean,
we're, you know, 20 years in themaking, but really is it was
really, when we started theability to print one that was
like, the wheels are like, Whatnow? What now? And never mind

(43:46):
just printing one yeah, I'm pastthat I'm moving on. Yeah, you
can customize your own letterand postcard. I'm way past that.
Now, I'm, like, create asemblance of data of direct mail
components specific to youroffice, or whatever it is,
whether you're an agent oryou're a bunch of investors,
admin, create your own assetswithin this environment, that

(44:07):
speak the language of what youas a company want to
communicate, put that to, youknow, make it available now your
people can have access to that,now that those people have
access to that direct, thosemarketing materials, tied in
with PropertyRadar, set up yourfilter sets for each person so
that it goes out automaticallyfor that person on behalf of

(44:28):
that agent within that office.
And that becomes like, okay, nowI'm hands free.

Sean O'Toole (44:35):
It's machines.
Automated.

Andy Detwiler (44:37):
Right? And it really took the data, it takes,
you know, this Zapier thing it'slike a bridge between this and
now if you don't know what itis, you have to look it up but
eventually you'll see that i's it's connecting this thing
ith this thing and then our wrld we're talking, you know,
ropertyRadar's talking toPRINTgenie, and you're say
ng look when when you know yourate, I love that you say it, bu

(44:58):
are my data is listeningt night When this happens, a
d this person fell in this situaion, Zapier is listening.
And it says, okay, cool, I gothat. I'm sending it to PRINTge
ie, and PRINTgenie says, gott, and sends it out, magically
appens, just like that.

Sean O'Toole (45:16):
You can just sleep and wait for the phone call.

Andy Detwiler (45:18):
I love it. It is like.

Sean O'Toole (45:22):
I wanted to talk you know, we're getting close to
the end here. And I think one ofthe things...
I haven't even look up, Sean,orry,
Yeah. I know one of the thingsthat's you know, that you've put
a lot of time and energy overthe years into, into building
templates, you've worked withthe Dan Kennedy's and, and a lot

(45:42):
of these different folks outthere, in creating good pieces
and creating good messages. Andhe touched a little bit on that
earlier, but I'd like to justdive into that you talked a lot
about empathy. You know, one ofthe things that I always tell
people is like, you know, theygot a postcard and what they
want to do is they want to like,Okay, I'm going to send, I'm

(46:03):
going to spend 50 cents, right?
I'm going to send 1000 of these,it's $500 I'm going to get every
thought I ever had on to thiscard. Because you know, if I've
got to pay for this to deliverthis, I'm going to get
everything on there, right,right. Um, let's just talk
about, like, you know, whatyou've learned from those guys,
what you've learned over thebusiness, like, what makes up a

(46:23):
good message is less more ismore or less, like, you know,
whatever, right? Like.

Andy Detwiler (46:30):
Sure. Sure.

Sean O'Toole (46:31):
I suppose we can dive on that before we wrap up.

Andy Detwiler (46:34):
Sure. And I didn't even look at the time.
You know, I think this is mypassion. I can I know it's
yours, but it's.

Sean O'Toole (46:41):
You and I can talk about this all day every day.

Andy Detwiler (46:43):
I know. And it's like, you know, it's like, oh,
man, I didn't know we had just afew minutes left. But so let me.
So, speaking of that, right, andso, what I've discovered what
I've discovered, and Dan Kennedyand Joe Polish Joe polish is a
student of Dan Kennedy, andthese guys speak the language
and they sincerely, people paythem a lot of money to, on
coaching and training and how towhat's the best marketing? You

(47:06):
know, conversation. And I pickedup a lot from them. And it was
that it didn't, a lot of theirmarketing didn't include photos
or images and include text andverbiage and copywriting. And a
lot of it had to do with themessage you're trying to relate
to somebody, right. And so, inthe investor world, I've learned
man agents really need to listento investors a little bit more,

(47:26):
they do speak the language. Andin some sense, the right way.
I'm here to help you. I'm hereto assist you. I can take this
challenge off your hands, I'mhere to whatever those things
are, right. And then on theother side, I think investors
should listen to agents at somelevel as well. And I think that
we're kind of seeing a crosspollination of, of agents

(47:48):
realizing that investors aren'tgoing away. Investors knowing
that they need agents, right.
And so, in this language, youknow that you try to speak to
somebody and feeling like, well,I got to put everything on this,
I spent 50 cents and I want it,I want it all to work. I want
this one hit wonder, unless, atleast now I am. I'm less
concerned with what you say,than what you say from the

(48:09):
heart. So, it shouldn't, doesn'thave to be long and lengthy. I
mean, my whole, is like you'rit's like a billboard, right
You're driving down the freewayThis is how fast you're lookin
at your mail, right. So, whacan stand out? At least resonat
with you, at some level don'look spammy, look authentic an
real. But then speak from thheart. So, a lot of ou
messaging, is that right? Anit's not necessarily 'I'll pa

(48:31):
cash, I'll close your house'It's not a billboard, we try t
say, 'Look, I'm a guy, I'm locain the area'. And we do this fo
our agents as well, we'll sayI've been in the area a lon
time. So you're, you'restablishing validation, right
I'm here to help and assist yoin any circumstance. I've go
the tools and the bandwidth thelp and assist you in whateve

(48:51):
challenges you're in. Whetheyou're an investor, an agent,
solo guy, roofer, it doesn'matter. It's like we're al
different people running oulives at 100 miles an hour. Bu
if you could slow down ancommunicate your message in a
authentic voice, I think it'going to resonate and b
receptive to the peoplreceiving it. But the data's go
to be right, right. So, iyou're speaking the righ

(49:12):
language, you can all call yoknow, call line very nicely, i
I answer that question for youbut

Sean O'Toole (49:18):
Yeah, did you ever read David Ogilvy and Oh I loved
his tested advertising methods.
And Ogilvy on advertising thosetwo books, I think are two of
the classics. But he was reallyall about testing, right? And
so, they would do these hugetests in like, reverse text, you
know, it's white text on a darkbackground, right is 20% less
remembered than black text on awhite background, right?

Andy Detwiler (49:44):
Right.

Sean O'Toole (49:45):
And just, they would go through all this a
serif font versus a sans seriffont, right? In a small text,
you're better off using a seriffont, that's ones that has the
little, you know, curly Q's onthe ends and stuff right in
small Type, the serif fonts arebetter and big type, right? The
sans serif tends to be betterlike, you guys get down to that

(50:07):
level and you know, and do yousee that? And are people paying
attention?

Andy Detwiler (50:13):
Not to that level? No. But people like, Well
you know, like what you justsaid here, right? Why does this
work? Right? Why does that workAnd I'll tell you, this is kind
of just kind of weird. But younow, say I have this thing here
This is kind of handritten-ish. You know? And then
I mean, I've just got so manythings. This is more type
et. I have

Aaron Norris (50:32):
Just taken out my office.

Andy Detwiler (50:34):
Right. I mean, I get I get seeds, like the girls
will always see me and thingsthat go through. But so, here's
the thing. This is what's kindof weird. It's like, it's all
dependent, right? So, somepeople are receptive to this,
it's just bold. Some people wantto see more, you know, script
stuff. This is a, you know, atypical one. Some people like
for me, this one here on our itis more of a handwritten font,

(50:58):
and it had to meet, just onanother, it was more like this
kind of thing, right? So, whathappens is, you start to go,
Why? Why does this work for somepeople? And this worked for
other people, and then ahandwritten letter or type
letter work for other people.
And then you can start to getinto the dialogue of wait a
second. Why does that banditsign work? Why would you buy a

(51:20):
bandit sign? I'm, I'm not gonna,I'm not receptive to it. I see
it and I think I'm not doing it.
But it works.

Sean O'Toole (51:28):
Right? Like all the all that plastic trash and
it'll go on around.

Andy Detwiler (51:33):
Now you're talking. Yeah, now you're
talking a different story also.
But in reference to the, youknow, how you how you're
receptive to it. This guy great,gave a great speech on why ill
banded light signs work, why didthis thing work versus whatever.
And then now I'm a little bitmore receptive, maybe I'm older,
and I like, you know, I like oh,I saw it easier, quicker. So,

(51:53):
that kind of lends its story to,at least what I do with print
Jeannie is I tried to say thatif you're sending out a sequence
of seven, your response rates goup. But don't just send
everything that looks like that.
That would be the big mistake,right? So, you, you change it
each time because you reallydon't know these people because
of the data. But then you don'tknow the receptors or who they

(52:15):
are as a person. So, what youtry to do is you say, in my best
opportunity for success, I'llsend something out at least five
six times that seven is themagic number one I'll mix it up
Yeah, and different formatsOne comes from Aunt Sue. An
then the handwritten letterne looks like it comes like th
t. One looks like it came ina six by nine, ones a jumbo a

(52:36):
d then you know, maybe one is, you know, more of a graphic
card, that's a mini? So, do Canfocus on sans serif, versus
erif, versus bold versus whateve, what I generally do, at leas
in my perception of as a desiger in the first place, is I us
my instinct, top to bottom,will I be receptive to this th

(52:57):
ng at some level? And so, likif I have this ebook, and it
ind of summarizes what I've lerned, and maybe you can share i
at some point, but from my persective, if people could just st
p for one second, think about hw can I communicate to this pe
son with an authentic voice,ight, using my instinct of what

(53:18):
I believe would be benefical to me or that person? And the
at least you're sure, that wy, now you're, you're, you're
off to the races with the rightdage of, you know, commun
cation tools, right? That'sthe best way. And so someti
es I say, to people, like,on't get so in the, you know,
eeds about, is it this way? Ois it that way? You know,

(53:38):
ou don't know, so hit it many tmes with a general unders
anding of a common sense, or insinctive guide of what resona
es with you as a person, and thn do your communication, you kn
w, and that's kind of like,hat'd be my kind of my point
f interest there. So yeah,ut designing font sizes and gr
phs, while the graphic designr, so, yeah, I look at that,

(53:59):
rom my perspective. And yes, Ido take that into consid
ration. So.

Aaron Norris (54:03):
Any trend or anything you're looking forward
to in 2021, that should be onour radar?

Andy Detwiler (54:07):
A trend? Well might, yes, it would be fill out
a form of the six or eight. Idon't call them let's just use
the investor or the agent space,whether it's next sellers are
motivated sellers, or distressedor whatever it is, the trend is
going to be picked from a listof a data list. That's prepaid

(54:30):
for you, the cole lines with adirect mail communication, they
hit some with online and offlinestrategies at night while you're
sleeping. So, my you know, my,my, that's me, that's my
mission. Right? So, we've startd to taste it. We have peopl
with good responses from it. Yu know, my buddy who is getti
g the text emails and or he wagetting emails from, you know,

(54:53):
from you guys. Now, it's throuh automation and it runs. That'
, that's the move. No, and I, I'e said this to my partn
rs, I'm like, you know, I, I'veind of feel like I've been a lit
le forward thinking on a lot otech. But I'm so grateful that
t least this print on demanautomation, dynamic data reson

(55:14):
ted with me at the point whent did. Actually, I have to give
little bit of kudos to Delux. They said, what do you want
hen they they did an acquiition a couple years ago? They'
e like, what do you want? I sai, I want to print one, it's
onna be a million bucks, do itmake it happen? And that was I
really owe it to them for that.
And because of that gives me thworld, right? It just said,
and then you know, Sean is like,he gave you the app. You know,

(55:35):
we both need each other, I thinkYeah, peanut butter and jelly
But oh, I hope I answered thator you, Aaron.

Sean O'Toole (55:44):
Peanut butter and chocolate. Peanut butter jelly
is great to peanut butter andhoney. Yeah, pretty much all of
that.
Marshmallow.

Andy Detwiler (55:53):
It's good. It's good. It's a good mix.

Aaron Norris (55:56):
Well, how should they go about to anybody
listening? How should they goabout finding it today?

Andy Detwiler (56:01):
I think they can investigate on PropertyRadar.
And you'll see us in theintegration section. Certainly.

Sean O'Toole (56:10):
GoBigprinting.com is for people who want to mail
lists for people who are reallyinterested in this automation
and individual piece PRINTGenie.
Yeah, and it's printgenie. It'snot PRINTgenie.com, it's
printgenie.io.

Andy Detwiler (56:24):
Exactly. Web application.

Aaron Norris (56:26):
I will leave all the links and to your ebook as
well, which I read yesterday.
Fantastic. And it's very fastand easy read with tons of great
information. I'll put that inthe show notes in the community.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.

Andy Detwiler (56:37):
I really appreciate you guys. I'm so glad
we get to connect. This isawesome.

Sean O'Toole (56:42):
Thanks. Thanks.

Aaron Norris (56:44):
Thank you for listening to the Data Driven
Real Estate Podcast, you canfind show notes and links to
some of the resources mentionedin the show at
datadrivenrealestate.com. Clickthat join the community, and
you'll be forwarded to thePropertyRadar community where
you can ask questions about thecurrent show and even see
upcoming guests and askquestions there. We'd love to
engage with you in thecommunity. So check it out.

(57:04):
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Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next week.