Real Estate Marketing with Dawn Perry, Realogy #DDRE35

Dawn Perry is Senior Vice President of Cross Brand Strategic Marketing at Realogy Holdings Corp. She leads cross-brand marketing initiatives for Realogy including the integration of marketing, communication, brand advertising, and other strategic partnerships across the Realogy family of brands. This week, Dawn shares details on how one of the world's largest real estate brands is investing in marketing and technology, how consumers are driving the conversation around ibuying and bridge programs, and how agents in 2021 are staying in front of their hyperlocal clients to grow business.

Get your questions answered on the upcoming show by posting your questions in our community: https://bit.ly/ddre-35​

00:00​ The Data Driven Real Estate Podcast Welcomes Dawn Perry, Senior Vice President of Cross Brand Strategic Marketing at Realogy
01:52​ What is Realogy?
03:13​ How Realogy's multiple brands connect with consumers?
06:58​ How does an agent stay connected with a buyer after the close to nurture that relationship?
09:45​ Realogy's investment in technology and Productivity Hub
15:35​ What data does Realogy leverage to help brands and brokers?
17:47​ Realogy's ibuyer program, RealSure, and other consumer-driven trends
25:17​ Where are real estate leads coming from in 2021
37:13​ Team trends in real estate
39:59​ What does it take to be a successful individual agent?
42:33​ How did COVID change the buyer's journey and needs?
46:25​ Three rebrands and how agents and consumers are reacting
51:40​ What should agents stop doing and start doing in 2021.

Episode Transcript

Aaron Norris (00:05):
Welcome back to the Data Driven Real Estate
Podcast the podcast for realestate professionals dedicated
to driving business using data.
I'm Aaron Norris along with SeanO'Toole with PropertyRadar, and
this is Episode 35. This week wehave Dawn Perry, she is Senior
Vice President of Cross BrandStrategic Marketing at Realogy.
There, she is in charge ofcross-brand initiatives for
marketing, communication, brandadvertising and strategic

(00:27):
partner, partnerships forRealogy and its family of
brands. This week, we talkedabout Realogy and the
investments it's making incommunications and technology to
support those brands, and theagents and brokers that work for
them. We talked about theiriBuyer program RealSure, and how
they're leveraging it to helpconsumers with their buy sell
side of transactions. Andfinally, what it means to be a
hyperlocal agent and 2021 thatmuch more, don't miss this

(00:49):
week's episode. Dawn, thank youso much for joining us today on
the show. And first question,What keeps you excited about
real estate now that you've beenwith the Realogy brands for over
a decade?

Dawn Perry (01:05):
Well, Aaron, first, thanks for having me on, Sean.
It's great to be with you guystoday. And I'm thrilled to
participate in this podcast.
What keeps me excited, like I'vebeen with Realogy for almost
coming on 11 years in March and,ten years of that was with the
ERA brand more, more recently,leading the marketing
department. And what I loveabout real estate, and

(01:25):
particularly, you know, thisyear, things are always
changing. Some people walk awayfrom change, I embrace, I really
do like the diversity of what wedo every day. But at its core,
we're really trying to helphomebuyers and sellers either
move on to their next dream homeor buy their first dream home.
So, we have been completelyinnovative over the last decade,
but even hyperfocused over thelast five years. And I like the

(01:49):
diversity of what we do.

Aaron Norris (01:52):
Some might not appreciate sort of the parent
relationship with the brands andthen the broker agent. Can you
talk a little bit about Realogy?
And then how they relate to thebrands?

Dawn Perry (02:03):
Of course, of course, yeah, you know, Realogy
is not well known as a parentcompany. And we don't purposely
go out and extol the virtues ofRealogy outwardly, because we
are a brand first company. So,we have six brands that are
extremely important and each andunique in their own way. And
there is great benefit to thatfor both brokers as they

(02:23):
affiliate for agents that areaffiliated with those brokers
and consumers. And I always say,you know, I've managed many
portfolios of brands over theyears, whether it was a
scholastic or even an Avisbudget, I have two competing car
rental companies, it's the samecar. So, to you know, to
diversify and figure out whatbrand is appropriate, there's a
different feeling and adifferent value and benefit you

(02:46):
get with working with each. Andso, there is a great opportunity
to provide choice to ourcustomers and a choice to our
brokers and agents in terms ofaffiliation, but Realogy between
its size, and its scale reallyallows us to create synergistic
opportunities across theorganization to drive even more
value. So, we're here to becomplimentary to use the data
that we have at our, at ourfingertips to drive insights,

(03:10):
and even more effectiveness andvalue to our brokers and agents.

Aaron Norris (03:13):
You said the magic word 'Data'. What is it? What
does that look like? How doeshaving multiple brands? What
does that mean from the consumerstandpoint, as you're trying to
get them to choose? Does onereally aimed at different
demographics, or what does thatlook like?

Dawn Perry (03:29):
Well, so I think there's a NARS, NAR statistic,
National Association of Realtorsstatistic that says, I think the
combined is 36% of yourcustomers say that would you
that they would work with youagain, right? So, it's repeat
and referral business. That'swhere they get most of business.
Actually the numbers 90% saythey would but less than 10%
wouldn't because they forget whoyou are. So, the data and it,

(03:52):
look, it's how many yearsbetween transactions?

Sean O'Toole (03:55):
Right.

Dawn Perry (03:55):
I re- I remember my first real estate agent. This is
my first home and she's retiredto Florida somewhere Bonnie,
Bonnie Ellingwood, and she wasfabulous. She was a Coldwell
Banker agent. But you know, now20 years later, I'm in this
house, if I'm thinking to move,you know, if I knew she was in
business, I probably would reachout to her, but you have to stay
connected to your customers. So,really what each brand is trying

(04:17):
to do in their own unique way,is really close that value
circle the lifecycle of a realestate transaction, and
providing even more value afterthe fact. So, we use our data to
understand what are the customerneeds, what should we be
offering to them to keep themengaged and active? And also,
what value do they have oncethey own the home? You know, so,

(04:37):
each brand has their ownoffering in terms of how to stay
connected, or the resources wecan provide to keep track of
your, your mortgage paperworkand all of the warranties that
you have on your house. So, eachbrand has a different way of
staying connected and reallyrefining and keeping connected
in that lifecycle.

Sean O'Toole (04:56):
Is Realogy. Did they, I mean I think some of
these brands have been throughacquisition and stuff. So, you
could say what it's just aholding company of related
brands. But is there issomething a little more
methodical to it like, you know,this brand appeals to agents
have this kind of persona orprofile or to buyers and sellers

(05:19):
have a particular profile? Isthere a lot that happens there
have a kind of differentiatingthe brands based on personas?

Dawn Perry (05:29):
So, yes, but it happens at the brand level. So,
we are, as you had mentioned,right, we so a holding company,
but we act as an operatingcompany. So, we are sharing
insights data across theorganization for the greater
good, and the strength of thisorganization, and providing it
to the brand so they can enhancetheir value of prop. So, if you
think about it this way, Century21 talks about the going the

(05:53):
exceptional experiences goingthe extra mile and the era is
about providing choice andcollaboration. And if you think
about Better Homes and Gardens,it's a lifestyle brand,
Sotheby's luxury, right. So,they all have their own place in
the sun, but they serve allcustomers, there's a Sotherby's
agent, that's also helping theeveryday first-time buyer with

(06:14):
an average median price home.
And that's as it should be,really, because it's a local
business. And it's based onrelationships. So, we would
never pigeonhole anybody intoany particular brand. We don't
force anything, we provide thechoice. And there's the right
broker, agent and brand foreverybody. I mean, I strongly
believe there is a tremendousvalue to affiliation. And I
understand why, when I was atERA, part of what our value prop

(06:37):
was, was to decide that we knowthat you have this local
expertise and brand value inyour market. And so, they offer
a concept still called Poweredby ERA , so that you can keep
that equity that you had in yourmarketplace. But you are now
fueled by your age, and evenfurther so by religion, if that
makes sense.

Sean O'Toole (06:57):
Okay, okay.

Aaron Norris (06:58):
As what the consumer wants from an agent
after closing changed in thelast decade?

Dawn Perry (07:06):
After closing, so...

Aaron Norris (07:08):
I'm thinking about the time, the length of
ownership that seems to begrowing. So, it's safe to say
that people are owning theirhome longer from the data that
I've seen. So, you know, whatcan agents provide after to
manage those relationshipsbesides sending, 'I can sell
your home'.

Dawn Perry (07:24):
Or, you know, calendar magnets and things like
that, that we've been doing foryears? Yes, we do recipe cards
that, hey, look, I've I'veworked with some agents that
have such a sphere of influenceand such expertise in their
market, that they have noproblem garnering a higher
commission rate, because of whatthey do. And they also still do,
you know, recipe cards andthings like that it stays

(07:46):
connected, it works for them.
And that's what's come to beexpected in that marketplace.
However, we also have to providean opportunity for the now
connected consumer, right, we'reall connected, and whether that
means how we reach them inmarketing, or how we service
them after the transaction. It'sall very important. So, we
talked a little bit about thatlifecycle before, so I've. The
brands are actively trying tofill a void maybe of that post

(08:09):
transaction, and how we can youknow, not sell anything, not say
that I want to be your agent forthe next time around, that would
get pretty tiresome and tediousover time. But really explaining
to them here are some of thethings you should think about in
the lifecycle of your home. And,and they do touch points. So,
they might have a follow upprogram, which sends postcards
every month or emails that say,'Hey, you know, it's time to

(08:32):
service your HVAC' or whateverit might be. So ,they're really
trying to enhance that value andstill be as they always are the
local expert, and the expert inthe real estate transaction,
right? So, there's great valueof staying connected to those
consumers.

Sean O'Toole (08:48):
Some brands that have told the, sorry Aaron, uh.
You know, uh with Compass inparticular has told this story
about you know, kind of techfirst and how it kind of changes
everything. And then with theiBuyers like Opendoor, really
investing so much in fleets ofPhD folks trying to figure out
who's going to put their houseup for sale and so much kind of

(09:11):
data-driven marketing emphasisyou know. What's Realogy's his
take on that? And, you know,kind of across the brand's you
know, I certainly have my own,but I would love to hear, you
know, boy, this is a businessyou guys have been in forever.

(09:32):
You're really good at it. Andnow you've got these upstarts
that are kind of making a lot ofpromises and, and getting huge
valuations.

Aaron Norris (09:42):
And don't have to be profitable for years.

Dawn Perry (09:45):
Yes, so, I won't go into all of that. But I will say
that look, first competition andchoice in the marketplace is
good. And I think when we havenew entries into the
marketplace, it helps us all bebetter, right? So, that we are
all thinking creative Andthinking differently, look, you
know, Realogy, and specificallythe brands, we are real estate
first. We have tremendousinvestment in technology we want

(10:08):
to provide, you know, we hadjust launched or discussed last
year, something called aProductivity Hub. So, the
Productivity Hub is reallydesigned to be an open ecosystem
that can deliver on theconnectivity to different
platforms and tools, some webuild ourselves. So, we have a
great product that we'reintroducing called Leeds engine,
which really helps settingreally quality business rules

(10:30):
for our brokers so that they canmanage their leads
appropriately, as well astracking and engagement with
social media and being able to,you know, generate leads, as
well as manage the leads. So,that's homegrown. But we also in
that same infrastructure we'retalking about, we have a partner
with Tiger pistol, and we have aproduct called social ad engine

(10:50):
that allows an agent to docustom marketing. Now, it's
fueled by our data and ourexpertise. So, we are providing
great insights. So, it's easyfor them to do a Facebook
campaign, it's as easy aspicking a campaign based on your
brand, or the product that you'dlike to offer, like a
revitalized if you're at CB andthen just plugging it and go.
And it's it's fueled by bestpractices that we've learned

(11:11):
across the organization. So thatproductivity hub is a great
connector of things, as I said,that are homegrown, but more to
come we it's an openarchitecture, we're excited,
because that allows us toconnect you to state of the art
tools and services, but at thesame time provide you really
quality product that gets youyour business done and make your
brokers and agents moreproductive.

Sean O'Toole (11:32):
So, big investments in technology, I
mean, Realogy has been known forthat for a long time, big
investments in technology, it'sgot to hurt a little see these
other guys make investments andget huge valuations when they're
doing, you know, kind of thesame things. But how, how
important is that tech stack toan agent in making a decision?

(11:53):
Or is it still do you feel,still feel it's more of a
relationship business.

Dawn Perry (11:59):
So, I feel that the tech stack, so we'll just we'll
call it what it is. Let's startwith web CRM, right transaction
management. Those are almosttable stakes at this point. You
know, I remember, you know,again, been in the business ten
years, that was when barely anyagents did social media, they
didn't have Facebook pages, Iremember one of the first things
I did at ERA was stand up, kindof like a Sprout Social,

(12:21):
allowing them to get contentdirectly from brands, they knew
what to post, right. So, we'veevolved quite a bit in the last
ten years, right. So, with that,though, I mean, I think you have
to have that it's how the branddifferentiates how they deliver
it. What is the, you know, soeverybody needs a website, but
the way that it is administeredby CB, and Better Homes and

(12:42):
Garden is very different, andhow they plug their consumers
into it. So, the other thing Iwould love to share is that at
Realogy, we have a centralized,really robust and effective
learning department. So, it's aLearning Center of Excellence.
So, it's not just good enough,you guys know where you can plug
in every new shiny tool thereis. But if the agents don't
understand how to use it, thevalue of it and don't use it,

(13:03):
what was the benefit? Right, Ican provide it free of charge.
But if you never use it, you'llnever be receiving the value of
it. So, we really focus on notonly just launching things, but
also driving adoption andeffectiveness with it so that we
can drive productivity becausereally at the core, we want the
agents to be more productive.

Sean O'Toole (13:21):
Sounds like your leads engines getting at that
too. I saw a stat that somethinglike you know, less than 1% of
leads turn into transactions. Imean, I think it's even worse
than that, right? Becausethere's so many folks now
selling leads and generatingleads and actually turning those
into transactions. I don't know.
Did you see the recent SNL skiton Zillow?

Dawn Perry (13:46):
I did. Yes.

Sean O'Toole (13:49):
That's going to generate just a few leads of
folks that are just bored andwant somebody to talk to?

Dawn Perry (13:56):
Yes, yes. It's interesting, I think, you know,
it varies. Um, when I firststarted at ERA, I was actually
running their leads managementprogram. And we did seminars,
quarterly seminars for brokers.
Some of them were still using,like the back of an envelope and
an Excel spreadsheet to tracktheir leads. And, and we had, at
the time as lead router, it'sstill part of our infrastructure

(14:16):
in terms of managing businessrules and things like that. And
what we used to say to them isthat it is the leads are only as
good as how you nurture them,right? So, I think as an
industry, we haven't been reallygood about understanding the
long cycle of a lead. So, Icould generate a lead that you
know, it takes, could take 18months could take a year, it

(14:37):
could take two years to turn. Ialways tell this story. My
daughter is 18 going on 19, shehas been communicating with real
estate agents in Manhattan,Aaron, okay, she wants, she
wants an apartment in Manhattan.
So, she keeps sending me theselinks of "Hey, so and so agent
at Sotheby's is sending me thislisting". It's 4 million. Okay,

(14:57):
get a job first. Let's finishcollege. And then We'll get into
that. But you know, so that's areally long lead. Like, I hope
that agent keeps in contact withher because eventually she's
going to want something, andshe's going to need an agent.
So, it when I say that isbecause it's important to track
the whole lifecycle that willeventually convert at some point
in the future.

Aaron Norris (15:18):
Conversion is, it's more difficult, the longer
the lifecycle trackingconversion is really tricky. And
you being in that little leadgen space training agents that
sometimes they don't want toworry about a technology stack,
they just, they want to closedeals.

Dawn Perry (15:33):
Yes.

Aaron Norris (15:35):
From where you're sitting at the Realogy
perspective, what data are youlooking at be like that agents
terrible, that broker does notlearning the training. I mean,
are you guys looking at that andsaying, we gotta, we're gonna
have to have a one on one withthis company.

Dawn Perry (15:49):
Well, so you know, everybody's independently owned
and operated, and their agentsare, you know, affiliated with
that brokerage. So, yes, we arelooking at the data, we do
report back to the, at the brandlevel, what is the overall
effectiveness of an agent? Youknow, what's their productivity
overall? And we look at trendsacross the organization. And we
also share that with brokers,right. So, many, you know,

(16:10):
unfortunately, or fortunately,right, we have a lot of brokers
that are still selling andworking in the business while
they're working on the business.
And when that's happening, theymay not spend enough time on,
you know, looking at the keystats, how does this agent
compared to the MLS? How does,how have they, how has the
productivity gone up or downover the last three years, we
share that insight back to themthrough our service network of

(16:32):
professionals, so that they canunderstand where there might be
some opportunity for either aone on one conversation to move
things forward or move someoneout, you know, or to fill a gap
that they might need. We have atool called iProspect. I don't
know if you're familiar with it,but it is connected to Teradata-
another, another tool, so that abroker can effectively look at

(16:53):
the marketplace and see howtheir agents are performing. But
they also can look at itholistically to see okay, in my,
in my area served, is there alike is there a zip code that
I'm not serving for some reason?
It's probably because you don'thave an agent that goes out that
far, there's an opportunity togrow that way. And we provide
coaching and resources back tothe training so that they

(17:14):
understand where they shouldfocus, like we all want the top
performers, those are what wedo, and we don't, like if you
talk to a broker, the topperformers but they're hard to
manage, and, and all thosethings. But that that's not
true, they have their own way ofdoing business as you talked
about. So, with that, andthey're very successful and
productive, and we like them.
But sometimes, when you'retrying to recruit, you probably
want to focus on the next, youknow, desfile down to understand

(17:36):
where you can really improve,like the benefit of joining any
brokerage is to grow yourbusiness and to grow the
brokerage. So, we do help themwith data in that respect.

Aaron Norris (17:47):
Training. Okay.
Um, iBuyers, you have beenlooking, launching your own
iBuyer program you've had aroundfor a while it's come back, can
you share any insights on howconsumers are responding to it?
Is this a needed facet of thebusiness that you've starting to
include?

Dawn Perry (18:07):
So, it's actually a longer story than that, Aaron.
So, at ERA, we had somethingcalled Sellers Security Plan.
Sellers Security Plan has beenaround for 40 years.

Sean O'Toole (18:16):
Long time.

Dawn Perry (18:17):
Yup, the premise of that was, "if we can't sell your
home, we'll buy it". And thatstill to this day, is the
tagline for that program. Now,that is offered in conjunction
with our RealSure product thatwe do with Home Partners of
America. And that if you happento listen to the investor call
or anything today, Ryan broughtit up on the call this morning.
It is a fantastic program, what,what it's great for is for

(18:39):
consumer we can go in and rightnow it's in 11 markets, we hope
to have it open in 20 by midyear. And so we have an
aggressive launch strategy, itwas a little bit on hiatus
during COVID. Because for allthe reasons that we know, right,
and then additionally, itprovides a choice to a customer.
So, if it's in a market that weserve, an agent can go into a

(18:59):
customer on a listingappointment and say, you know,
Aaron, I have, I can give you anoffer on your home today through
the RealSure product. And I'dlike to get you started in that.
But you know what I would preferwe'll do that and then I want to
market your home because I amsure that if we market it and
you follow these steps, you knowif you're CB it's listing
concierge, if you're one of theother brands, we have all these
great marketing programs. If Imarket your home appropriately,

(19:22):
it will sell probably faster andfor more money but you have this
backstop you have this offer inyour in your pocket. And so,
while we talk about it as aniBuyer, it's really not that
what it is, is designed to getthe best value in price and meet
the needs of the customer. Andthere's another facet of that
too, that helps them withmoving. So, for example, if they
get a third party offer and theywant to take that there's an

(19:42):
opportunity, excuse me to holdthe offer. There we go. Oh, glad
I brought a bottle a glass ofwater up here.

Sean O'Toole (19:56):
Yeah.

Dawn Perry (19:56):
So, they have the opportunity to hold that offer
for another 45 days while theytry to get to the closing,
right, if something fallsthrough, they still have that as
a backstop. But even moreimportantly, they can move on
their own timeframe, because thesecond part of this is allowing
them to rent back their home ifthey wanted to, to stay in it
for a little longer as they workto close or find their dream
home. But it also provides themthe opportunity to have a

(20:18):
guaranteed offer when they tryto make an offer on their next
home. So, really, it providesflexibility and insurance. So,
while we, it's, it's always beenlumped in with iBuyers, it's not
really that at its core, neitherwas sell a security plan. It
really was designed to marketyour home appropriately so that
it sells for the best price forthe consumer, which is what
we're all about.

Aaron Norris (20:36):
How are agents responding as you're rolling out
in these markets? Are theyexcited?

Dawn Perry (20:41):
They are they like to have the opportunity for the
choice, you know, if I'm, if I'ma listing agent, it gives me one
more tool in the toolbox, if youwill, to try to gain that
listing, which is definitelyhelpful. But you asked before
and I didn't answer, Iapologize. Like how is it being
received by consumers? Look,it's, it's fairly easy to sell a
house right now. So, while it'sappreciated, and it's valued,

(21:02):
and people are using it, and Iforgot the stat that was quoted
this morning, because HomePartners of America are, they're
buying houses at a rate as partof their core program. So, it's
not like it's not being used.
But now it's pretty easy to sellyour home people are getting
multiple offers. So, I don'tknow if you saw there was
something on the news the otherday where there was a line of
traffic down for an open house,it was like three blocks long. I
am fascinated by that. But youknow, good for sellers. So, it's

(21:26):
not as necessary right now thatit will be in a changing market.

Sean O'Toole (21:31):
Have you guys looked at the other side of the
equation much yet. Because, youknow, as you mentioned, it's
pretty easy to sell, it'sactually really hard to buy
right now. And it's really hardto buy if you still own a house,
and you still need a place tolive until your new place
closes. And it feels to me likethat's the hard part of the
equation. And I just bought asecond home. And but you know,

(21:56):
the gal who sold us the homecan't start her buyers journey
until our escrow closes. Becauseshe can't, you know, juggle both
at the same time. So, she'shaving to move out and rent. And
then she gets to start herjourney. And it's awfully
disruptive. And it seems to melike, you know, iBuyers is

(22:18):
almost You know, they're focusedon the seller, but not the
buyer. And where are the buyerprograms? And when are they
coming?
Yeah, well, you're absolutelyright. But RealSure does help
you with that, right? Becausewhen you get the offer from
RealSure, you can get a wholevalue statement. So, in effect,
it helps you make you know, ithelps you move faster towards
your buying your home. Butyou're absolutely right. In this

(22:40):
particular market, it isdifficult. You would say up to
this point, everything weprovide, even the advertising we
do is directed at buyers. But inthis type of market, it's really
trying to find them their dreamhome. And so, I always rely back
on, you know, your expertise ofyour agents, really good agents
know where the homes are, andthey know how to get you into
your dream home. And that's whyagents are more important than

(23:01):
ever in today's market.

Aaron Norris (23:04):
Is there a lot of pressure on the brands to focus
on off-market real estate,because demand is so high and
buyers are having such a hardtime, especially first-time
buyers?

Sean O'Toole (23:14):
Well, Aaron, I don't know that I have enough
information to comment on thatparticular aspect of it. And so,
you know, I don't have much toshare on that particularly, but
we can certainly circle backwith what we know about it.

Aaron Norris (23:25):
Sure. You know, I just I'm thinking about the
rentals that I've owned and theamount of times it's only
happened twice where I had arealtor reach out and say I have
a buyer that absolutely lovesthis area. If you know anybody
looking to sell please call me,I, were, they're ready to go
qualified. And it's onlyhappened twice in the last
decade. And I, it's alwayssurprises me. So, as the value

(23:47):
proposition for realtors are, isforced to change because of
technology. So, just curious ifoff-market real estate is one of
those things that you know,Realogy or the brands are really
helping agents get better at.

Sean O'Toole (23:59):
I mean to be fair, agents are good at that because
they, every listing is anoff-market deal that they
brought that seller to market,right?
So, it's interesting that youput it just that way, Aaron, and
it reminded me last week I gotsome random, random thing
dropped in my in my mailbox outfront, like actual handwritten
note that said, 'Hey, you know,we have some people that are

(24:21):
interested in yourneighborhood'. It was like, it
was really, it was legit not apostcard. And you know, and it
was kind of covert and cagey.
So, it was a it was a real- Itwas not a branded real estate.
It was just a real estate agentdidn't even really use whatever,
you know, brokerage name theyhave. And like 'Well, I'm a
little off put by this' and I'min the industry. But I think
look, I remember you know whenwe've gone through this before

(24:41):
real estate, as you all know,it's cyclical and we'll you
know, we'll have our ups anddowns. You know, where we
struggle as a brand when I wasan ERA was making sure agents
stayed engaged with what thecore business builders are for
real estate, right. You have tocontinue to farm you have to
get, so because the cycle willgo like this, and you will need

(25:02):
access to a larger sphere ofinfluence. So, while we talk
about those of our off marketlistings, I think that's, you
know, it's an interestingphenomenon. So, anecdotally, I
can tell you it's definitelyhappening, but I don't know any,
you know, real research behindit.

Aaron Norris (25:17):
What is the data, data say as far as where leads
are coming from on the sellerside, how agents are connecting
with sellers.

Sean O'Toole (25:25):
So, leads on the seller side generally come from
consumer, it's basically thereferral repeat business in many
cases, right. And so, and justlike everything else, it's
unfortunate or not that peoplenormally use the first broker
that came and give the listingappointment. So, it's important
to make some headway that way.
That's why programs likeRealSure, CB offers

(25:46):
RealVitalize, which is I don'tknow if you're familiar with
that program. But that programis basically fix it up for
nothing upfront, right. So, youget the opportunity to a certain
extent to paint the house,renovate the house, do some
basic upkeep and upgrades thatwill drive a higher price for
your house, and then you pay itback in escrow. So, there's no
money out of pocket upfront. So,there's opportunity with those

(26:08):
programs. And that's what youknow, Realogy and each of its
brands try to bring to itsbrokers and agents to try to get
their foot in the door to makethat headway. And from that
standpoint, listing leads arereally tough. So, I oversee
marketing for RealSure andRealVitalize, so I'm their in
house marketing liaison for theproduct teams there. And we've
done some paid media,particularly around RealSure to

(26:29):
make sure that we're buildingawareness, it's fairly new. And
as we open up new markets, wewant to support that, as well as
RealVitalize, in terms of reallytrying to, trying listing leads
is not easy. And when you'redoing it with a program that
people don't know what that is.
So, we are constantly evolvingand emulating, analyzing the
data to make sure that we areproviding the most marketing

(26:51):
effectiveness for the dollarsthat we spend. And I'll be
honest, I'm not sure we crackedthe code yet. But we're still
working through it.
Now, it's tough. I thinkeverybody's in that situation.
Are there particular data setsthat, you know, you don't have
now on that front that you'dlike to have that you think
could make that easier for you?
So, it's interesting you had ormaybe Aaron mentioned before

(27:14):
about data insights in terms ofgetting leads, right. So, if you
think about it, we have a lot ofdata, we should be able to model
that data to understand whenpeople are likely to transact
again. So, how long are you in ahome before you are thinking
about moving and it's notnecessarily dictated as many
times it is about a lifestylechange, right? You become an

(27:34):
empty nester, you're looking fora second home, or you're upset,
upsizing right like that, ormoving from one a different
locale, a lot of people doingthat right now. But I think the
overall where we could be moreeffective, and we are starting
to do this, it at Realogy isreally, and I know ERA also has
something that they're doing aswell, looking at the data of a
whole lifecycle to kind of modelwho's, who's likely to convert

(27:57):
and targeting messaging,messages to them in that
respect.
Yeah, we've seen an awful lot ofit, efforts, I mean, to some
degree, you know, Opendoor andOfferpad and those guys are all
touting that, as their teams ofPhDs are, what they're working
on. Smartzip raised a lot ofmoney, and, you know, basically
failed and went off to die. Andon that, on that front, and if

(28:22):
you really think about the datathat's out there, you think
about, I always like to askeverybody, if you think about
the last time you decided tomove, right? Did it have any
correlation to any of the thingsthat are available in data, like
the number of days that you ownthe house, when you last
refinanced? And it usuallydoesn't it's usually like you're

(28:46):
visited somewhere a familysituation change that there, we
really don't have access andprobably shouldn't have access
to data on like, these kind ofmore deep internal things. So, I
for one, don't believe we'relikely to see a propensity to
sell model that's that terriblyaccurate.

Dawn Perry (29:10):
That accurate?
Yeah. It's interesting in so Igrew up in data marketing,
believe it or not, and I went,you know, my first job at a
college I worked for PeopleMagazine, and every magazine,
Time Inc, People, SportsIllustrated, and then the
calendar and Time Year InReview, and all those things. We
were all basically fighting forthe same list. And so, back then

(29:32):
we spent a lot of time modelingthe data to make sure we could
understand who would be morelikely to pick one offer and
over another and spend theirtheir hard earned dollars on one
thing or another. Now, manytimes they spent them on many
things. So, that was good foreverybody. But because you had
to back up every marketingactivity with the value that it
brought to the organization, andthat's how they dictated whether
you got access to the name. Youknow, that is an interesting way

(29:55):
of thinking about marketing. AndI think the brands are doing the
same thing, right. They'rereally trying to find a way to
drive the most effectivemarketing, and leads to their
brokers and agents so that theyare likely to convert. But
you're right. I mean, in termsof a model overall, but who's
open to move I like I think theagents are watching Facebook. I
mean, it's, you know, in somethings, there's, it's fairly

(30:17):
creepy, like, you don't want tobe too invasive. But even back
then we had overlays of databack in people we overlaid with
certain, you know, sociographicand psychographic lifestyle
things that allowed us to make ashot at what they were doing.
And I think that's the best wecan do. But I agree with you.

Sean O'Toole (30:34):
Yeah.

Dawn Perry (30:34):
Sure. It's gonna be super accurate.

Sean O'Toole (30:36):
Certainly narrow the pool down to ones more
likely. And I think that's,that's probably the best you can
do. And if you can combine thatwith good messaging around that
particular group, because it'sdefinitely different groups of
people, and having the rightmessaging makes a lot of sense.
I'm down that path just a littlefurther. The he- are you seeing

(30:59):
the advertising costs, you know,the cost of, you know, marketing
to add a listing? It seems likewith all this new competition
and stuff, that's, that's thebig winners here are, you know,
Facebook, Google, you know, thead platforms. Like we're each,
everybody's kind of upping thespend for each new, new

(31:22):
customer? Are you seeing that aswell?

Dawn Perry (31:26):
Yes, yes. You know, it's, I struggle with the whole
process and I'll tell you why.
Because it's cheaper as it getsto do the marketing, the more
people don't pay attention towhether it's effective or not.
So, it costs nothing to send anemail, almost nothing, right?
You're buying an email platform,whatever. So, 'Hey, let's hit
everybody with all theseemails'. And we never know if

(31:46):
they're opened or read oranything like that. Same thing
with social, like, I'll boost apost in Facebook, and just hope
for the best. And, you know,look, I'm gonna go back to that
stat I said earlier, which islike, you know, it's the
combination of 17. And I don'tremember, but the repeat and
referral business, like ifagents continue to nurture their
sphere, and instead of thinkingabout advertising, thinking

(32:07):
about engaging, that's going togenerate that business for them.
And those are, you know, look,repeat, and referral business
convert at a significantlyhigher percent than those
internet leads that we'redriving to them. Now, again,
Internet has a long tailnormally takes well over a year
for some of those to convert.
And sometimes, at that point,the agent stopped tracking them.
So, there is value. But I don'tthink it's it says, I don't

(32:32):
think it says paid attention toas it should be.

Sean O'Toole (32:35):
We had a guest from IBM, I don't remember her
name, because I'm terrible withnames, you know, that, you know,
in direct mail, and it used tobe, you know, you needed at
least three touchpoints. And shesaid, what was it now 17 or 50,
or something ridiculous.

Aaron Norris (32:48):
Depending on who you talk to you 23 to 73? I've
heard it all over the map.

Sean O'Toole (32:51):
And, you know, and so, I think, you know, we see
that a lot with agents who sendout one postcard and expect to
get listings. And, you know,when you think it's 17, or 20,
to 70, touchpoints, it reallyspeaks to that kind of ongoing,
you know, drip, and long nurturetime. Do you think that's

(33:15):
something agents are mentally,you know, prepared for and
understand at this point?

Dawn Perry (33:21):
Well, I don't know, if they're mentally prepared, I
think if they are aligned with adecent real estate brand, and
you know, I'm talkingholistically now, right, many of
them offer opportunities to helpsystematically do that
engagement after the fact,right. But the really good
agents are the ones that cancome up with creative ways to
continue to engage theirnetwork, I think one of the
questions you had posed to mewas, you know, some creative

(33:43):
ways that agents are engagingwith marketing. There is an
agent in South Carolina that Iknow very well that did this
whole like, man on the streetseries with local restaurants
and bars. And he would go outand interview them and talk to
them about and really trying todrive awareness of what they
offer and the and demonstratethe uniqueness and flavor, I
think it was Charleston, whichis a beautiful town to start

(34:05):
with, right. So, it brought themarriage of the local community
to the real estate expert. Theyhad this little podcast webinar
they used to do. And he'sextended that to a variety of
other things, but really tryingto show that, here's why you'd
want to live in Charleston,here's what I know about it. And
here's how I can help you findthe home that you need in
Charleston. So, it's reallyunique ways to stay engaged with

(34:27):
their sphere. And that reallybuilds a following. And drives
engagement. There was anotheragent in Texas that used to do
they did a Facebook page was 365things to do and might be Austin
365 things to do in Austin. So,every day there was a fun thing
about, but that was a realestate agent and really, you
know, so it was sponsored by youknow, Dawn Perry and it kept,

(34:50):
but it kept the whole universeexciting, engaging for the local
community. So, it stayed top ofmine, but it also allowed people
that were traveling in to findgreat and fun things to do and
also be connected part of thesphere of influence. So,
there's, there's creative waysto stay engaged.

Sean O'Toole (35:05):
That's a good one too, because I'm sure the
community engaged withsuggesting items that should be
on there too. And so, that's agreat way to create engagement.
It sure, it sure is a time toshine for those folks that have
that kind of outward extrovertedpersonality, and, you know, are
good at, on good on camera and,you know, don't have a radio

(35:30):
face. And, you know, are youseeing anything similar for the
maybe the folks that are alittle more introverted, or
other approaches that don'tquite require that big, you
know, outward show?

Dawn Perry (35:49):
Well, so yes. So, there is a lot of, we have a
quite a few courses that I knowacross Realogy they offer and
some of them are based on just,just say something, pick up your
phone and say something, I'mstanding in front of 123 Main
Street, which is in the heart ofX, Y, and Z. And I'd love to
give the opportunity to show itto you. That's it, that's all

(36:10):
you needed, right. And then youcould post it. So, really trying
to get them into that comfortzone, but some will never get
there. Look, let's be honest,you know, and there's no reason
they should, if that's not theircomfort, that's going to come
off as very inauthentic andfake. And they are really good
at what they do. And we need toeither supplement that, that's a
great opportunity for growingyour agent base. If I'm a

(36:30):
broker, I pair that reallyseasoned broker with someone
who's tech savvy, and has asocial savviness that they could
help grow both their businesses,right, it gives us an
opportunity in that respect. Iknow as teams have evolved,
there's generally somebody onthe team that's more savvy than
something somebody else. So,look, I in the whole scheme of

(36:52):
things, authenticity is the key.
And no one's going to work withsomeone who doesn't present
themselves in a real and honestway. And this is the biggest
transaction you do in your life.
So, you want to work withsomeone that is real. So, if
while we encourage it, weencourage them to have that face
and be a presence. If they'renot comfortable, we find
alternate solutions for them.

Sean O'Toole (37:13):
That's great. You mentioned teams, teams are just
happening and seem to be growingand bigger thing every year. Is
that something you're seeingacross your brands and how
important you think that is forthe future of real estate?

Dawn Perry (37:28):
So, it's a it's an interesting question, I don't
want to have the data in frontof me, we have had a significant
growth in teams over the lastprobably five or six years. I
know it was certainly happeningwhen I was at ERA, and really
trying to service. Look, there'sa branding implication here, if
you think about it, right. So,you have I'll use Century 21 as

(37:48):
a brand, right? It's you haveCentury 21 as a brand and then
you have Century 21, Dawn, Perryis the broker and then you have
each agent has their ownpersonality, then you put on a
team, generally, there's a teamname. So, like they used to call
me the brand police at ERA,because that's what I did. And
like you could see some of thesesigns that are put together,
which are following the businessrules and 50%, the broker and

(38:11):
then you've got the team nameand the writer and the footer,
there was a lot going on there.
So, from a marketing standpoint,it's not the best, most cohesive
message. But it's important forbrokers to provide a solution
that puts everybody's best footforward. Right? So, sometimes
that team name like I know, inthis area, there's quite a few
teams that have a hugefollowing, and I know them more

(38:32):
than I know the broker, doesthat matter to the broker? Not
if the business is coming in,right? So, it's really trying to
find a way to nurture and keepyour teams happy, while keeping
your business and you're in yourown brand recognition, front and
center.

Sean O'Toole (38:46):
Do you see an increasingly difficult future
for the individual agent whenthey're competing with more and
more with these teams?

Dawn Perry (38:57):
Not necessarily, Sean, to be honest with you, you
know, we have some it's funny,like I we get the awards every
year, we look at the productionof our agents. And it's because
real estate is so local I,there's times when I've had to
check the number like it can'tpossibly be that a single
individual sold hundreds ofhouses, right. But if you're in
a market where it's a lowerprice point, and the volume is

(39:20):
there, and it's significant,they can absolutely do that. So,
there's times where I'm like,'You're sure that's not a team
of people?' But a verysuccessful agent can can sell
just as well, if not more thansome of these teams, where the
teams really help provide valueis kind of that divide and
conquer, right? There's anopportunity to like we talked
about before, some are betterthan others at other things. So,

(39:42):
the strength of the team comesfrom the shared knowledge across
of it, across it, they mighthave an admin that helps them
with all of their listings inthe MLS. So, there's great
opportunity, but I think there'sstill a lot of listings to be
won and a lot of homes to besold at the individual level.

Aaron Norris (39:59):
New agents coming on board, do you recommend that
they start with a category?
Whether it be demographic or anarea? Like what's the fastest
way to success for an individualnew agent?

Dawn Perry (40:09):
So, that's a really good question. And I'll pivot
and say it depends. Like I, so,when I started with Realogy,
like a decade ago, we alreadytalked about, I took real estate
course, because I came frompublishing, I came from car, you
know, car rental andfranchising, and I didn't have a
ton of experience about what theday to day experience was for

(40:30):
broker an agent. So, I took theI took a real estate course I
got licensed in the end, werereferral license. And I will
tell you, honestly, an upfront Ifinished that class, I had no
idea how to sell real estate,right? So, it is specifically
based on the, the legality ofreal estate, right, so I know
what I'm supposed to do, but howI would ever get a lead or how I

(40:51):
would ever write a contract, noidea whatsoever. So, we always
encourage new agents, first,find a quality broker that you
are comfortable with, right?
Because if you don't like theculture, culture is everything
you won't grow and develop. Andthen make sure that you're
educating yourself and takingthe training classes, the
biggest thing we encourage themto do is try to build that
sphere. Many of the brands havea program, it's a new agent

(41:12):
program, designed to get them alisting within, I think it's
three months, right? So, it isjust like, you know, we've been
doing this since the beginningof time, right, the number of
calls, you make results, thenumber of appointments, the
number of appointments skims thelimit listings, and it really is
teaching them how to sell notonly to a customer but
themselves and the value of anagent that I find that's the

(41:35):
hardest thing for new agents tolearn is how do I justify the
commission I'm asking for, andit can't, in the, they have this
urge to discount. And we do notencourage that at all. In fact,
you can sometimes ask for apremium, because what you do is
an expertise. And so there wasan agent that I knew in Alabama,
and she used to say 'I go inright away and say, you know,

(41:58):
you could pay I think for her, Iwant to say it was 4%. My fee is
4% or 2% on the other side. Andif you choose me, I'm going to
do this, this and this for you.
You're welcome to you know, getless service if you went to so
and so down the street or sodown the street. But I provide a
premium service and a premiumproduct, I have this expertise

(42:19):
in this mini home sold in thelast 12 months'. You know, so
she doesn't ever apologize forwhat she's, what she's offering.
And I think all agents shouldtake that, take a page from that
playbook.

Aaron Norris (42:33):
I'm most excited about the iBuyer merged with the
brokerage, the local brokeragebecause I do believe real estate
is very local. And having thatlocal expertise is so important
where some of these proptechcompanies, they don't even have
offices where they're doingthese ibuying programs. So, I am
very fascinated in the next 24months to watch as the iBuyer

(42:54):
gets rolled out a little bitmore, pain points for the buyer
perspectives as they're comingin. Do you, has their journey
changed because of COVID? Andhow they're finding places to
live and the expectations?

Dawn Perry (43:07):
Yeah, I certainly, of course, you know, in some
states real estate wasessential. And so transactions
fairly went on withoutdisruption that they could close
the transaction. At Realogy,we've found ways to do you know,
virtual signings and otherthings we've had drive by, you
know, contract negotiations. So,we have find out one thing I

(43:30):
will tell you, you know, lookCOVID has done something for
real estate that we haven't beenable to do really well in the
last decade is accelerate thepath to innovation for all of
this paperless transaction stuffthat we didn't do before. But
there is a desire and a need forall of us to do it moving
forward. And if that is what thecustomers are asking for, they
want a simpler process, theywant the ability to do it on

(43:52):
their time, you know, they won'tbe able to do it from their
phone to the extent that we can.
So, that has really advancedinnovation, I think, in real
estate for the last year. So,you know, some one positive
outcome to where we all are. ButI think from a buyer standpoint,
they really you know, they'relooking for choice. They're
looking for the expertise interms of what's valuable in the

(44:15):
home that they're buying. Andthat's changed. And I look,
it'll be interesting. Aarontalked about 12 months from now
in terms of iBuyers I want tosee what the needs, what the
trends are from a customerstandpoint, because we're
already seeing trends in thatthey're looking for two offices.
They like my house is notanywhere near high speed
internet, in any stretch of theimagination. So, I'm managing

(44:38):
two different Wi-Fis at themoment. But there is an
opportunity in the future biggerbackyards, more outdoor space.
So, you're gonna see differenttrends than we have now whether
that'll remain and whetherpeople will back into the cities
and I think that will happen inthe future because people still
prefer and from it all. Thereare many reasons to live in

(44:59):
cities, but I do think we'regonna see a different, a
different cycle of behavior forthe next couple years.

Sean O'Toole (45:08):
And just on, the Realogy's a company themselves
are you guys made announcementof whether you're going to
expect people to return, youknow on the corporate side to
return to the office or is itpermanent work from home for
here, or some mix, or havingundecided?

Dawn Perry (45:22):
Well, it depends on how, we have decided it depends
on how you look at what you'retalking about from the
corporate, right. So CB iscompany-owned, and many of much
of its offices arecompany-owned, and they're still
own it either operating andpeople going into the office
with all of the protocolssafety, mass everything, our
real estate, the one that youcan see behind me, it's not in
the lobby, as you know. But thatway that's open, and we're

(45:45):
allowed to go in and it will beused as almost like an event and
learning space. So, when a brandwould like to present itself to
a prospect to demonstrate thebenefits of affiliation, they
might bring them to the Madisonoffice to experience what they
have for the brands. So, we're,we're currently converting some
of it to this really engagingspace, so that the that really

(46:08):
showcases the brands. So, thereare people working in that
building, but for the rest ofus, we're pretty much remote.
So, we have the opportunity towork from home and, and you
know, will that change year fromnow? Hard to say. But for now,
this is where we are.

Sean O'Toole (46:22):
Yeah, good.

Aaron Norris (46:25):
Sean and I were at an event with Nick Bailey when
he was part of Zillow. And hewent on to Century 21. And I, I
was in awe and in love with theCentury 21 rebrand, and sitting
where you are at an ERA at thetime, did it go as expected? And
did it have the response thatyou were hoping for from the
consumer perspective? Did theylike it? Has it made a
difference?

Dawn Perry (46:45):
Well, so there's several facets to that. I've
been through three rebrandswhile I've been at Realogy, one
was my own at ERA. And that was18 months of, of, of engagement
across the network. And it wentreally well. Century 21 did
theirs next. And then CB, Ithink all of them did
phenomenally well at bringingthe brand into this century,

(47:09):
right. So, it's really hard. Youguys know, when you have a brand
like CB it's 100 years old, andyou've got Century 21 who's,
people still think of the goldjacket. It is hard to innovate
that but I think they did afantastic job pushed it just
enough. Their brokers and agentsare loving it, you know. And you
can normally gauge that by howfast the yard sides change.

(47:30):
Right? So, if people look, theyhave to put money behind that.

Sean O'Toole (47:32):
They have to buy them.

Dawn Perry (47:33):
Real estate agents.
Right. So, with that in mind, ifyou start seeing and like I see
Century 21 all over the place.
Now they've pretty muchconverted everything right CB
quickly, there's a yard signacross the street right now that
has the new CB branding on it.
They have really embraced it.
From a consumer standpoint,however, I don't think there's,
I look, I don't know that it'sdone any difference. C 21 has

(47:54):
been a legacy brand. It is atremendous brand recognition, so
does CB. So, from thatstandpoint, I think people are
happy. And it's almost, yeah,I'm glad that the CB brand is
still around, and it still canoffer me the service. And I'm
happy for the next chapter aswell. But I think it really
means a lot to brokers andagents in terms of what they
brand themselves with, becausethat's part of their pride.

Sean O'Toole (48:17):
That does seem so they were well done and not
controversial, like some others.
Symbology and whatever.

Dawn Perry (48:26):
Poor GM, I don't know, GM like they had all kinds
of problems recently. I like Ithought it was or GE thought it
was okay. But so they pushed ittoo far.

Sean O'Toole (48:34):
Yeah.

Aaron Norris (48:35):
What's the, the, NAR logo change where they made
like the 3d cube? And you'relike, wow!

Dawn Perry (48:40):
yes.

Aaron Norris (48:41):
Got all this pushback. Yeah. I don't think
people appreciate what it takesto rebrand. And people are in
love with brands, and they'vegot the jackets and like, 'Oh,
new logo!'

Dawn Perry (48:50):
Yes.
So, it's, I have a funny storyabout that. So, in ERA we have
blue jackets.

Sean O'Toole (48:55):
Yup.

Dawn Perry (48:55):
And so, this navy jacket for years and years. And
we have this broker who is youknow, one of our advisory
council been in the brand, he'snow, he's, uh, his son now runs
the company. And so you know,it's a son of a broker, right,
the son or whatever. So, theyhave a legacy with the array,
probably over a 20 year tenure.
And he had a blue jacket thathad he was a huge Bama fan. So,
he had all the logos of Alabamainside. And so that was always

(49:18):
his, you know, claim to fame.
And when we re imaged we boughtthat man a jacket, and we had a
branded with the stuff inside.
Look, I will tell you what,Realogy in general allows its
brands to be is reallyindependent in how they execute
on their goals. So, with that,what ERA did and then we shared
information across theorganization of how the launch

(49:41):
and the rebrand went it was aphased approach. It was based on
communication. That was not, itwas not 'Hey, we're doing it
tomorrow'. Here's the plan.
Here's how we're going to workthe plan, here is how it impacts
you. Here's how we can supportyou, and then really tried to
drive engagement and get thebrokers and agents included in

(50:02):
the conversation. Because whenthere's buy in, in that respect,
it all goes over easier. So, Ithink we've really done a
phenomenal job, the MarketingLeaders at Realogy right now
that the brand leaders arephenomenal, and they really
understand and differentiatetheir brands for the brokers and
agents, which is extremelyimportant. So, I think they do a
great job.

Aaron Norris (50:22):
Aren't afraid to try anything new. You did the
turnkey with Amazon. I know itdidn't work out exactly as you
expected. And then, you know,last year, the AARP, I've been
very fascinated to see thepartnerships and relationships
that Realogy has pushed over thelast few years. What's coming
next?

Dawn Perry (50:41):
Well, you know, I wish I had some news to share.
But of course, I wouldn't beable to do that anyway. And you
all know that, but I will tellyou that you mentioned AARP. And
that would be a whole othersegment if you wanted to have
it. But the Realogy leads teamis, is really hyper-focused on
driving quality leads throughthe network, AARP was a
phenomenal launch for us, theyare a great partner. And we are

(51:03):
doing some great cross-brandedmarketing with them. And we've
seen some, some, some good leadscome through that program. And
we're excited about where that'staking to, taking us to the next
round, we really werehyper-focused on driving leads
into the network.

Sean O'Toole (51:16):
I thought very highly of AARP until I started
getting my AARP cards before Ieven turned 50. And then I
wasn't so happy with them.

Aaron Norris (51:24):
How rude.

Dawn Perry (51:25):
Apparently anyone could join AARP. I didn't know
that either. And I also wasgetting them. And but there's
some great value in thatprogram. And they do some great
insights and research that theyshare across the organization,
which are really helpful, so.

Aaron Norris (51:40):
One of, one of the reasons I was excited about
interviewing you is the, you didan ERA presentation on, on
branding and marketing, and youreally focused on that
hyperlocal professional, whatwould, what would you like to
see agents stop, stop doing andstart doing in 2021.

Dawn Perry (51:59):
So, what I would like them to stop doing is
chasing every shiny new thing,right? I want them to, and not
everyone does that. But youknow, we're all looking for
something to make our lifeeasier, or simplify, you know,
or more systematic. And one ofthe things I always share with
them is they and this issomething that I think you had

(52:21):
seen in that in that, that talkI did was that you have to focus
on one goal, one wildlyimportant goal that is
meaningful to you. And that'snot my phrase that's from 4
Disciplines of exec- Execution.
It's a Sean Covey, there areseveral authors on it, it's a
fantastic book, everybody shouldread it. Because what that says
is, you know, if you focus ontoo many goals, you'll never

(52:44):
succeed in reaching any of them,right? So, you can have
refinement to a goal, right. Butif if, as an agent, your goal is
to do four more transactions, orten more transactions this year,
well, there are key activitiesyou need to do to get there much
like we talked about before,certain amount of call, certain
amount of you know, leads, andthen converting that certain

(53:04):
amount of listing appointments.
So, those are the activities,you need to provide a systematic
way of doing measuring them aslead measures so that when you
get to the lag measure of did Idid I sell for more homes this
year, at the end of the year,you're like, you're not going,
Oh, my I'm surprised that Ididn't get to that, you know
that there's key measures. Andif you're doing those measures,

(53:26):
the lag measure is going tocome. So, it really is focusing
on what's important. And I'll behonest with you, they need to
think about it. Is it reallymore business? Is it more
quality time with friends andfamily because some of our
agents work nonstop. Andthere's, there's that balance
that you know now for all of ustoo probably right, you're
working more probably since yourvirtual than you do when you

(53:50):
used to go to an office in somecases. So, really taking that
time to not only invest inthemselves, but invest in their
business and what they can do togrow and develop and what their,
look, I'll be honest, there'sother things they should think
about, like what's their exitplan. You know, we, we focus a
lot of Realogy, about leadershipdevelopment, we have this
program called Ascend, and it'sa cross-brand initiative. And we

(54:11):
bring in brokers up and comingbrokers within the network. And
the basic premise of thisprogram is leading self, leading
others, and leadingorganizations. And the idea is
understanding what drives you sothat you can then lead and drive
others. And it's a reallyfantastic program. Again, we
could do a whole session on thatone. And you can have brokers
come in and talk to you thathave been through it. But that

(54:33):
is also data-driven, right,because they're not only looking
at, you know, they do theintrospective analysis, but
they're looking at theirbusiness and are key drivers.
And they're trying to figure outwhat that wildly important goal
is that will move your businessforward.

Aaron Norris (54:46):
Any technology that you wish, realtors would
spend a little bit more timelearning to help automate and
grow in 2021?

Dawn Perry (54:55):
I wish they would.
So, we talked about this beforeabout technology overall, right?
We can give them new tools,they're only as good as if they
use them. So, you know, if theyhave a CRM, and they probably
they likely all do in some way,shape or form, even if it's a
modest CRM, understand back tomy, what are the key activities
that you should do all the time.

(55:15):
And even if it is just oh, mygod log in and see where things
stand? Or really investigatehow, you know, look at your
measures, see how people areengaged. If you're on Facebook,
and you're just posting stuff,please engage with those folks.
Please reply to them. You know,ask them questions, get
feedback, because that'sengagement, just posting a new
picture of something, it's notreally going to move their

(55:38):
business forward. So, it'sfocused on what matters spend a
little bit more time on, youknow, I have a long legacy of
CRM, back when CRM wasn't atool, it wasn't a database, it
was actual, you know, how theright message to the right
people at the right time. And Ithink if they look at their data
and their CRM and look at theirsphere of influence, and how
they're connecting with them,they really will drive
significant productivity in thebook of business.

Sean O'Toole (56:01):
Having the CRM doesn't give them business,
using the CRM to make 20 calls aday to do reach outs, that, that
works. And can the CRM makedoing those things a little
easier? Yes. Will do it for you?
No.

Dawn Perry (56:16):
Exactly, exactly.

Aaron Norris (56:18):
There's only so much Dawn can do for you today.

Dawn Perry (56:22):
As much as I try. I ry.

Aaron Norris (56:26):
Anything, you're really excited about 2021 that
we haven't covered?

Dawn Perry (56:30):
Well, you know, I'm excited for 2021 just to start,
right. Are, we all like I'mready to turn the page and move
forward? Yep. But I will say Ithink there's a tremendous
amount of positive change comingin our industry, I think there's
great opportunity for consumersto really benefit from it. And
I'm excited for what's to comein. And I look, I like the idea

(56:51):
of technology and innovation. Ilike the idea of the competition
in this space. And I think it'sgonna make us all better. You
know, what's that? I think it'sa, it's a John F. Kennedy, the
rising tide raises all boatsthat I think it's true in our
industry, I think, you know, weget talking back about the sn-
SNL thing, we tend to get a badwrap. We, there, this industry

(57:11):
is, has phenomenal experts withgreat insight that really help
consumers find their dream homeand I really, you know, they
deserve the credit andeverything that's due to them.

Sean O'Toole (57:21):
Okay. Great note to wrap it up on.

Aaron Norris (57:23):
Absolutely. Dawn, thank you so much for your time.
It's a lot of fun.

Sean O'Toole (57:27):
Oh, you're welcome. I was great chatting
with you. Thank you for havingme on.

Aaron Norris (57:30):
Thank you for listening to the Data Driven
Real Estate Podcast, you canfind show notes and links to
some of the resources mentionedin the show at
datadrivenrealestate.com. Clickthat join the community, and
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(57:50):
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