February 7, 2024 • 34 mins
Who says understanding the opposite sex is an unsolvable mystery? In our upcoming podcast episode, we offer a well-guided tour into the complex world of gender roles and decision-making in relationships. From candid discussions about the nuanced differences in language to the revealing exploration of submission and decision-making rights, we aim to bring clarity to the often misunderstood dynamics of relationships. Drawing from our experiences, we reveal insights into the intricacies of traditional relationships and underline the importance of open and sincere communication.
Ever puzzled over why men are attracted to status or what temperament means in a relationship? We uncover these mysteries and much more, taking you on a journey through the male perspective. We also address the contentious statistic about men finding 22-year-old women most attractive, providing a balanced interpretation that will surely put some minds at ease. Our mission? To empower women with a more profound understanding of men's viewpoints and their roles in relationships.
Finally, we transition into crucial topics such as education, status, and self-improvement. Peeling back the layers, we reveal how men and women prioritize differently, and what significance education and intelligence hold in signaling attractiveness and compatibility. We emphasize the importance of continuous learning, self-reflection, and coaching in the journey of self-improvement. As we wrap up, we discuss the art of understanding what men want in a relationship and the power of accepting and appreciating each other's "shopping lists". So, join us and let's grow together in this journey of understanding the intricacies of relationships.
Ever puzzled over why men are attracted to status or what temperament means in a relationship? We uncover these mysteries and much more, taking you on a journey through the male perspective. We also address the contentious statistic about men finding 22-year-old women most attractive, providing a balanced interpretation that will surely put some minds at ease. Our mission? To empower women with a more profound understanding of men's viewpoints and their roles in relationships.
Finally, we transition into crucial topics such as education, status, and self-improvement. Peeling back the layers, we reveal how men and women prioritize differently, and what significance education and intelligence hold in signaling attractiveness and compatibility. We emphasize the importance of continuous learning, self-reflection, and coaching in the journey of self-improvement. As we wrap up, we discuss the art of understanding what men want in a relationship and the power of accepting and appreciating each other's "shopping lists". So, join us and let's grow together in this journey of understanding the intricacies of relationships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So we've talked about the first bucket.
That has three traitsfemininity, looks and appearance
.
This next bucket of threetraits would be temperament,
intelligence and cooperation.
So let's break this downtemperament, intelligence and
cooperation.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Do you know?
And your tape?
He calls himself the mostgoogled guy out there, but I've
never googled him, so, bummer,he's about that one.
He speaks a lot aboutrelationships and men and women.
He made a statement that says awoman is a man's property and
he just left it there.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You don't want to leave, not first.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
He left it there.
That was just a clip that mostpeople were focused on, so there
was an uproar that how dare yousay that a woman is property?
But what he was trying toexplain was that if you Choose
to be with this man and you givehim permission to lead you,
(01:00):
then he has some authority overwhat happens, right?
Meaning, if you say, okay, Iwant you to be my protector,
then allow him to be theprotector and allow him to make
those decisions as a protector.
So he has that authority.
But the way it's interpreted ishe gets to boss you around and
he owns you like Chattel.
(01:21):
But I think it's just thedifference in how men and women
Communicate.
He uses words like authorityand property, whereas a woman
would prefer something a littlebit more Gentle.
Right, I'm looking out for you.
Yeah, I care for you yeah thereason why I brought it up was
because when we talk aboutSubmission, cooperation,
(01:44):
temperament, all those thingsbecause we're using different
words it feels like an attack.
When a man says I want asubmissive woman, it feels
excuse me, how dare you?
Right, but if he took some timeto just explain what he means
by submissive, then it's not asjarring to a woman and it's the
same thing with him.
Like he said authority and it'slike how dare you?
(02:07):
But when he explains it alittle bit more, yeah, I think
that is like decision rights.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
We're gonna write yeah decision rights and, like
in a workplace, you don't havepeople like overlapping each
other.
Yes, you have clear lanes ofoperation.
That doesn't mean you don'tconsult other people in those
decision-making, but you havefull Cape Blanchette, as I like
to say yeah over the answer.
Like you own the outcome, likeyes it stops with you.
Does Valden have full decisionrights over over meals?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
The answer is no.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, there's definitely no what the time,
like how you divide up your,your tasks at home.
Yeah, and so, like, you ownthose lanes and you take pride
in those lanes because youcontrol when they're done, how
they're done, and the end goalis yours.
Yes, that to me is adecision-right lane like a
(02:58):
decision-right element.
Yes, and so when you talk about,like, the biggest thing in
relationships is Finances, a lotof conversation around finances
, who does the bills, that is,who has decision rights over the
bills being paid right, thatdoesn't mean that you don't have
conversations about them.
That doesn't mean that youdon't sit down and evaluate and
(03:18):
do you want to keep going withthese monthly fees for this
particular service?
That doesn't mean that he orshe depending on who it is in
the relationship owns the bills.
We're gonna just cancel Netflixbecause they decided that they
didn't want to have it anymore.
No one's gonna just randomlycancel stuff.
And so when you use languagethat feels and language is very
(03:40):
time-based and so using thingslike Property or submissive,
like you know that people aregonna get upset and miss your
entire meaning.
Yeah, but when you define it, Iown this outcome.
That doesn't mean that I don'tconsult, but at the end of the
day, the responsibilities on meto make that decision.
So here's where.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I see the whole proposition thing become
important out here.
Men say they're looking for awoman To join in on their
purpose.
Right, so they are.
They're already full speedahead to where they're showing
and they would just love to havesomeone come on to support that
.
Now we have women who are alsosaying the same thing.
I have my purpose, full speedahead and I want a man to come
(04:21):
in and join that.
They put heads when they'reboth trying to go full speed
ahead doing Mm-hmm, whateverthey want to do.
That's gonna be a difficultrelationship, because who then
gets to make the decisions right?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Definitely say you guys come up with goals together
.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It's a little difficult to say that, because
the goals of the unit are mostlyhis our relationship is pretty
Traditional.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I would say yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
so I went into things knowing that I'm not gonna be
Trying to compete with wherehe's trying to go.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You're not gonna decide after Valin being very
clear about what he wants andThrough your dating and
courtship, and then you getmarried and then you go.
I think I'm gonna be a nurseand so.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's a good.
That's a good example.
Let me first clarify thatintentionally wanted to marry a
woman that I could take care ofand she could take care of me.
Correct Now, my taking care ofher is through making sure she's
got a place to live, make sureshe's got food on the plate,
make sure she can buy all thenecessities of life and she can
be happy with.
That's me taking care of herFull person.
(05:32):
Yeah, Her taking care of me istraditional in the sense that
she's gonna make sure I got somefood on my plate.
She's gonna make sure myclothes are clean.
She's gonna make sure my officeis clean.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Buying those shirts you like.
Yeah, that's the dynamic.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
We went into the relationship with Now she got to
a point where she wanted to dosomething right and she decided
she wanted to do real estate.
And she didn't just decide shewas gonna do real estate, leave
the house.
She came to me and and and wehad a conversation actually.
I think I asked you to do realestate.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, maybe we'll pick one of the other jobs you
tried, because she was a cakedecorator for some years.
I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh my gosh, that's right.
Wait, I remember you told meabout that, because you had all
these like cake decoratingthings, yeah, but the point of
that conversation?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
the point of this conversation, is just to simply
say that we work as a team.
Right, we do work as a team.
I am the captain of that team.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But I lean on her heavily.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, she's a solid first mate.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah to help make decisions and that sort of thing
.
But at the end of the day, ifit needs to come down to a vote,
my vote is bigger.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I know, going into the relationship, I'm talented
in a lot of areas.
I could run a household bymyself.
But I have to make a decisionbefore entering.
Okay, who's going to have thelast say?
Because we can't both have thelast say.
So, even though I may be goodat casting a vision, I will say
okay, that's your box, you takecare of that.
(06:59):
He can say I'm not good atfinances, so he passes that job
over to me.
So I will have final say onfinances, because I just manage
that.
But at the end of the day I'mdoing the finances because of
where he is on his path.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and the only thing I'll correct you on is
that the final say in thefinances does come back to me.
It does.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But I think cooperation and temperament
blend a lot, because cooperationbeing this understanding of
where do you fit in thisrelationship, and I think
temperament is how you expressyour understanding of where you
fit in this relationship.
(07:46):
Because I feel like when Ithink about temperament, it is
like how calming are you, likesome of those factors that go
toward when you're upset?
How do you express your upsets?
Yeah, when you're having areally bad day and your
partner's having a really greatday, like how do you separate
(08:06):
them?
Mm-hmm, you're in a really badmood but you're thrilled to
death for them, and it doesn'thave to be all consuming.
And so it is just your abilityto be able to navigate that
relationship authentically,without smooshing down your
feelings of bummerness Again,very critical bummerness title
(08:27):
there but not squishing thosedown and pretending like they
don't exist, but acknowledgingthem.
And it can be both and, and Ithink that's how I view
temperament.
I don't necessarily thinkthat's how it's really defined.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, the only thing I would add to that is
temperament matters across theboard, like I care about how you
sound and act and feel all overthe world, not just in the
context of us being in the housetogether.
Cooperation not so much Ihaven't thought about this long
(09:01):
enough but I see cooperationfrom an attractiveness
standpoint because, again, we'retalking about men and women.
From an attractivenessstandpoint I'm more concerned
about you being cooperative tome, with me, not necessarily
more concerned about you beingcooperative with other people,
but really depends on thetemperament plays a piece in
that, because if you're a personwho's just objectionable to
(09:22):
everybody, right, that's aproblem, sure sure.
And at least that's partcooperation and that's
definitely part of temperamentright.
Who wants a woman, who'sobnoxious out in public or
doesn't know how to control heremotions and anger, or makes
people feel bad about themselves, like all of those things
(09:43):
temperament pieces, in myopinion, that a guy would care
about.
Because one very important thingthat women should understand is
that status is important to men, right, and we look at women as
an asset to our status.
Right, as horrible as it mightsound to some people or it might
(10:04):
feel bad, but we look at themas an asset to our status and,
depending on where a guy is, whohe is, what kind of work he's
doing, what kind of people he'saround, he has to be aware of
that.
He has to be aware that hiswoman affects his status and
most men are when at thechoosing phase, most men are.
I've heard many examples in mylife where a guy didn't choose a
(10:27):
woman, not because he didn'tlike her, but the idea of a guy
saying, oh man, I really lovethis lady, but she's overweight,
I can't marry her.
That is because he's trying toprotect his status, right or
wrong.
Right or wrong, that's justwhat it is.
The point of this wholeconversation is to say that
status matters to men.
So temperament plays a big part, because who you are reflects
(10:52):
me as a man.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think status plays some role with women, but
definitely not in the same waythat it does with men.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, again we're talking sexual market value
stuff right.
Women care about a guy's status.
Yes, men don't necessarily careabout a woman's status.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
From an attraction standpoint.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay.
So from the perspective of menlooking for a woman, they don't
care about a woman's status.
They want a woman to add to hisstatus.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Exactly.
They care about her status.
If her status helps his status,oh okay, oh okay.
So the only thing I'm trying toget across here, well that's
not an absolute statement.
Yeah, the only point I'm tryingto make is that men and we're
just bred this way competition,status and those things are just
bred inside of us.
So when we're talking aboutwomen, if I'm coaching a woman,
(11:45):
part of my goal is to help herunderstand men better and not to
tell her what to do with thatinformation.
We can get to the part oftelling her what to do with that
information, but women justhave to understand men first,
just understand the nature ofmen, because this is where the
conversation goes south a lot ofthe time.
Because remember when we talkedabout the statistic that most
(12:06):
men find 22-year-old womenattractive, totally Right when
we had that conversation andthat message has been out there
on the web wherever and peopleare just all up in arms about
that thing and women startshaming men and insulting men
and all this sort of thing.
And if I was talking to a woman,I would say listen, all I want
you to do is just understandthat.
Just that's how we come out ofthe box.
(12:26):
That we find a 22-year-old moreattractive than any other age,
right, doesn't matter if I'm 50years old or 40 years old Now
that does not influence what I'mgoing to do with my life and
how I'm going to treat thatinformation.
Like, I think, the new Corvette,so like the coolest sports cars
out there, but I don't want aCorvette.
(12:47):
I think 22-year-old women areattractive, very attractive.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I don't want one of them.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I'm saying so.
The goal is to help youunderstand the nature of us so
you know what's important to usand you can use that as a tool
to help you be a better personfor him if you love that guy.
Because I want to be a betterperson to my wife if I love my
wife.
But I can't do that unless I golearn and understand women at
the core.
(13:13):
You could say women are veryemotional, but it doesn't mean
that they're going to be off thedeep end all the time.
But, if I know that about them,then I can at least move in a
way that's conducive to how sheis you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like this bucket should just be
renamed with the hot spicybucket.
These are difficult becausethen you move to intelligence,
like, a man doesn't care about awoman's status We've talked
about before.
A man doesn't care about awoman's education.
But intelligence is differentthan education.
Education is somewhat formal.
Intelligence can be gatheredover time or Situational learned
(13:53):
.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I think that's the interest piece.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like you're an interesting person, yeah, and
the piece that I like to add tothat is Education.
It matters to men in a waythat's different than women
think it matters to men.
It matters to men, to yourpoint, because we do like
intelligence right, andEducation can signal
(14:17):
intelligence.
Right, because you still have tohave a conversation with
somebody you can't just let themsit there on a right, yeah, and
depending on where a guy is inlife, he wants to be able to
take you places and and not feellike you're a kid.
But that's just.
Some guys want to take youplaces and are happy to expose
you to new things and teach younew things all the time.
And then there's some guys whocare about it because there's an
(14:39):
inherent feeling that you have,if somebody has done some work
and done something with theirlife, that they're not after
what you have done as opposed tosomebody who hadn't done
anything with their life, andyou go take them on.
You got this thing in the backof your head saying one day, if
she's here for the right reasons.
So my point is education andmoney.
You can see how those thingscan be attractive I don't want
(15:04):
to use the word attractivebecause they still don't belong
in the sexual market valuecolumn but you can see how they
add to you exactly.
You can see how he can careabout those things.
Yes, but he cares about them ina different way.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Then the women, because of the outcome that come
, because what?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
it signals and because of the things that come
from it, whereas women have atendency to say I've got this
degree, you guys get what I'msaying.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
But like the people who flex their titles, yeah,
versus the people who Flex whatthey have from their titles.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, at least that's how.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think about it.
Yes, because everyone knows atitle flexer and you don't
really know why you're flexingthat when people want to get to
the things behind that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Is it fair to say, or does it make sense to say, that
men care about how women makethem look and Women care about
how men make them feel?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I don't think, absolutely, absolutely okay,
because it when I also careabout how a man makes me look
and I care about how a womanmakes me feel.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Okay, never mind, scratch that then.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay, we care about how people like you.
You can make me feel like a man, and we know when some women
out there make their man feellike kids what I meant was when
you're prioritizing what youcare about.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I understand that men care more about how the world
sees him.
Yes, he wants to feel good, buthis priority is Do my friends
think I'm cool?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah the only problem I have with that statement is
saying that it's a priority,like, when I talk about those
things, I'm talking about theinherent part of men, that this
is, you know, out of the box, wecome out wanting to be
competitive, and that that wholeidea of competition, mm-hmm, is
the idea of status.
Yeah, you your winners.
(16:52):
You beat these guys down here.
Yeah and we compete with eachother.
I compete with other engineerslike I, compete in every aspect
of life and that's just the partthat motivates us.
Like the competition in a guyMotivates us to move forward, to
get higher.
Like there guys out there whohave millions and millions of
dollars but work harder than thedudes that make 35 thousand
(17:13):
dollars a year if you had tochoose, though, there's a woman
that makes you feel good, andthere's a woman that elevates
you, makes you look good.
Yeah, that's, that's a Me.
I have an answer for that, butI don't think the answer.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I think that definitely I think that would
fall in the category of usethese traits and Understand them
, and then the type of personthat you're interested in.
They're gonna put weight ondifferent ones.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, okay, I want people to be better at
relationships.
I really want.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I think we need to do an episode on what is a dating
coach.
We've talked a lot about it andis scattered throughout a lot
of our episodes.
But like, how do you thinkabout a dating coach?
Like, how do you price a datingcoach?
I imagine that like marketplaceis wild and crazy, much like
business coaches how long shouldyou have one?
Is there, like some likebaseline skillset?
(18:05):
Like how do you know?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
when you have a good one.
Yeah, yes, probably the mostimportant is yes, because what I
worry about is Someone sayingokay, I got a dating coach, and
rather than them getting closerand closer to their goal,
they're just moving further andfurther away.
There there's some coaches thatstill focus very heavily on
Text messaging, for example.
(18:27):
Right, where they prioritize.
Here's how soon you should texta guy back after the date and
hear what you should say and usethese words.
It's not terrible Advice, butit's not where I think the focus
should be.
So I think it's important forpeople to do a little homework
behind choosing.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, that's a big conversation and I don't have
all the answers to it, but Ithink about that a lot because
you know what you just mentioned.
I call that tactical coaching.
Okay, and I'm not a tacticalcoach, I'm a perspective coach
because I want to ask the rightquestions and find out enough
about you to guide you in adirection.
They help you get to theoutcome that you're looking for.
(19:08):
But Just generally speaking,think about therapists.
Like we've been to tons oftherapists in our lives and most
of them were terrible, yeah,and.
But then we watched the showwhere this guy was a really good
therapist, but he was a goodtherapist to celebrities.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And the key thing there is, when we were sitting
with the bad Therapist, like wehad to lean on our own
intelligence to say, okay, wewill not listen to like, like,
oh, wow, but there are somepeople who can't do that.
They would say okay.
My therapist said do is, I'mgonna go do it, which is that's
crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah so there's a little bit of a theme with our
buckets and with our traits, andeven with this conversation
about coaching.
Maybe it's just coming out tome, because of Some of the
things that I'm thinking about,of just clicking through the
boxes or checking things off, tosay we're checking them off and
doing the stuff and okay, we'vedone this, so let's go to the
(20:02):
next thing.
I think the intent and Desirearound it is what matters more
than the actual things itself.
The things point you as amilestone on that road to get
closer to where you want to go.
But if we look at even thevisual bucket and the
(20:23):
interpersonal bucket of this FIMscore, they're not all.
They're not all things you cango through.
And okay, I'm now feminine.
Yeah, okay, I'm now like mylooks are great.
Yeah, okay, my parents isfantastic.
Yeah, okay, I'm now intelligent, like all of these things are
growing and evolving with you asa person.
Yeah, and continuing to changeand shift, because the landscape
(20:48):
changes, styles change.
For starters, people peoplechange, and then intelligence is
one of those things that Ithink the most alluring thing
about intelligence is that itcan improve and Grow and change
and you can add new aspects toyour intelligence.
We were talking earlier aboutwine.
(21:09):
That's one of the things I loveabout wine is that you can
never learn it all.
Yeah, you can never learn itall, and I think even that
approach to life of you can justcontinue to learn, you continue
to grow even that alone isalluring and is appealing to
people Because it shows you havea growth mindset over a fixed
(21:30):
mindset.
So I think there's so much tointelligence that is is beyond
what's your degree?
Yeah.
What did you go to school for?
Yeah, did you finish school?
What do you do professionally?
And I think even the clampscore and the FIM score really
get to.
How are you as a person Growingand evolving and presenting
(21:53):
yourself outside of the thingsyou can read on paper?
Yeah, I think that's theencouraging part about it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, when I think about the clamp score.
When I'm having thisconversation with the guy, I can
ask him on a scale of one toten, where's your level of
confidence with women?
It's normally what I would sayand they would give me a number,
right, as far as looks areconcerned, on a scale of one to
ten.
Where do you think you are withlove and so forth?
It's quantifiable in the mindsof people.
(22:21):
It can be quantifiable, right,when we think about the things
that in FIM score, I don't know,can we quantify Femininity,
like, on a scale of one to ten?
Or I could ask that question ona scale of one to the ten how
feminine do you think you are?
No, no answer is right or wrongand again, this is the tool to
just to start the conversationup.
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I was thinking about that as Debbie was talking
through like getting closer to60, and I was trying to think is
math part of this?
Can you assign yourself anumber?
Whenever people rate themselvesindividually, they're always
skewed based on your ownunderstanding of yourself.
But that's the point, though.
Like you wanted for you to sitthere and say, hey, my
(23:03):
Appearance can be better, but Ifeel like I am pretty feminine,
so I feel good on that one, butI can improve my appearance and
that's not quite as high.
What are some things that I cando to improve my appearance?
A lot of these probably open updoors to conversations that
you've already had, but givenyou more Achievable pathway to
(23:23):
get them, because it's not justI need to be a better person.
Like I suck.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You have to Figure out where you are yeah and you
figure that out by at leastasking what do you think you are
in this?
Now my assessment might betotally different.
But if my assessment isdifferent, then my creative
coaching will illuminate that atsome point.
But how?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
would you do that with temperament?
Because in our conversationabout temperament and maybe even
cooperation, they somewhatsituationally driven, because if
you're in a good place, likeyou don't feel like you are in a
toxic environment or you Areworking through what you need to
work through or you're tryingto change your attitude and
(24:03):
perspective about certainsituations.
Like I know that my temperamentis wildly different when I'm in
a toxic space and I know thatabout myself.
Like I am much more combative,even if I'm trying to coach
myself and say that, hey, weneed to change our perspective
here or ask different questions.
But even how you ask thequestion that you are doing your
(24:23):
best to ask in a way that isnot combative, to get around it.
Like how do you quantify that?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
So for a friend, I think there's a difference
between Knowing it for yourselfbut also knowing it for the guy.
So I can do the full-body scanand say, okay, personality wise,
this is where I am, temperamentwise, this is where I am and
I'm at be comfortable with that.
I'm comfortable with how Itreat people, I'm comfortable
(24:52):
with my personality in general.
But then, when I don't want toget into a relationship with
someone, is that personalitysomething that would be
attracted to the guy?
So sometimes you ask women, howdo you rate yourself?
And they're like I'm a 10.
I just know I'm a 10, but you,they might be a 10 to themselves
.
But if I say, in terms of beingattracted to a guy, where do
(25:13):
you think he would rate you,then they might pause in it
Maybe a seven, maybe a six.
So it's two, two differentapproaches which, when we say
you get to know yourself first IKnow myself, I know what my
temperament is, but then I alsoneed to understand what a guy is
looking for and if I identifythat he wants a Certain
(25:35):
temperament, I can then chooseto adjust or choose to find
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Temperament is not something I feel like I can
measure.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It is an isolated trait, you know.
I'm saying like you can measurecooperativeness, let's just use
introversion and extroversionright.
Let's see, an extrovertedperson has a temperament.
It could be a good one or a badone, but just generally
speaking, I can want atemperament of a woman that is
outgoing and Extroverted,friendly, like I could think to
(26:08):
myself.
I want someone with that typeof a temperament because I
entertain a lot and I wantsomebody who can share a Life
where there's gonna be lots ofentertaining people.
The type of thing I'm justsaying is a lot around
temperament.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
What's the difference between temperament and
personality?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
so my gut and it could be wrong, but my gut would
say Temperament is sometimesalso how people feel around you.
So I used to maybe sit a tonwhen I was younger and there
were some kids that were justwhen they were around you.
They were just calming, likethey could be doing crazy kid
(26:44):
things, but when they werearound you you just felt calm,
you felt easy, and that's how Iview some of temperament.
Even if they're in a bad spaceor in a toxic environment,
they're not when you're withthem.
You don't feel hyper all thetime or like you have to try to
overcompensate.
So let me give you thisdefinition from psych central.
(27:04):
I'm sure it's gonna be nothing,like I said, Just learn
something.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Definition of what temperament.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So I'm comparing temperament and personality.
Okay, so your temperament,sometimes called your
disposition, refers to an aspectof your personality that's
influenced by your biology.
It's not your experiences.
Your personality involves yourthoughts, beliefs and
dispositions, or temperament.
So temperament would fall underthe umbrella of personality.
(27:31):
I can see it and yourtemperament is influenced by
biology, where I guess yourthoughts and beliefs would be
influenced by your experiences.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, I have to think on that to fully digest it but,
I, get to digest it.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So temperament is just how I came out.
This is how.
So it's a little more nature,yeah.
So I guess that's the introvert, extrovert.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I guess that would also stand with the kid analogy
that I used, maybe Because hewas just naturally calming.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yes, yeah, because I do see that there's some things
about me.
That's just.
It's biologically who I am.
I've just always been this way.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, temperament and disposition are words that are
used quite a bit in Jane Austenbooks.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I don't know where that goes, but those are words
that are used a lot.
Okay.
Interesting, so Less abouttheir personality and more about
their disposition.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So it's kind of like looks and appearance.
There's one that you just can'tdo anything about, which is
your temperament, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's a good point, because my temperament is
different than what I have to doevery day.
If you were to ask people inthe engineering community what
my personality is like theyYou'd be like.
Who are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I would love to hear that.
I think that would be a lot offun.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'm curious to know.
I was going to ask you Do youthink I am a serious stern
person?
Honestly?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't think that's your temperament.
I think that would more bepersonality, because you change.
So when you are in a customerservice environment you get a
little bit more mean mode, butwhen you're dealing with your
friends you're just like superhelpful, super nice, super kind.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I would say that you're serious, not stern.
I know I'm from the otherenvironment, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
It's mean versus nice .
Speaker 2 (29:21):
She said mean.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
We're not that way all the time maybe 10% of the
time, I think, when you are inan environment that you I
wouldn't say feel safe, becauseI feel like that's not the right
word I would use but if you'rein an environment where you feel
is more collaborative orcooperative, then you're
probably different.
I'm a little more serious aboutthe things that you do, because
(29:46):
life is important and it'sserious.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
When people don't meet your expectations, you
don't have the patience for it,but for the most part you're a
nice guy.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I would say you're a nice guy.
I find it so helpful when youcan think in buckets and think
in boxes and create your ownmilestone.
What I want is I want people tobe more curious from this by
providing tools and words aroundthings, whether it's with the
clamp score or the FIM score.
(30:17):
The FIM score obviously mattersa little bit more to me than
the clamp score does, but I findmyself being more curious when
I engage with other people, whenI hear people tell stories, or
even when my friends tell meabout their dating experiences.
I am immediately putting thingsinto buckets, like assigning
(30:38):
traits to stuff.
I feel like sometimes my mindis a beautiful mind where things
are floating around and I'mpulling them into spaces.
That's just really fun for me.
I also would like for peoplefor the women listening and the
men too, but largely the womento be hopeful.
It's not all or nothing.
(31:00):
I think in dating, so manytimes it feels all or nothing
because it does go from nothingto something in a blink of an
eye when you think aboutyourself and how you're trying
to improve yourself.
Ultimately, people are moreattracted to people who care
about themselves, not this weirdself-help language or this
(31:24):
overuse of self-care.
But you're more attractive andmore alluring as a person when
you are not so focused onyourself.
In many cases, when you're notfocused on yourself is when
you're the healthiest version ofyourself.
To work on yourself to improvewho you are makes you more
(31:46):
alluring because you're notalways constantly focused on
yourself.
It doesn't really make thatmuch sense on the surface, but
the healthiest form of who youare is what you're trying to go
for.
The more you figure that out isthrough tools like this or
self-assessments or I'll say itfor Valden, a dating coach.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, that's my thought.
I like the idea of wantingpeople to be more curious about
it, because the general themefor me is that I want people to
have better skills in thisrelationship space, because if
you have better tools, you candevelop better skills.
Relationship is the thing thatyou have to be skilled at.
(32:27):
If you want to be successful atdoing it, you've got to have
some level of skill.
I just hope these episodescontribute to that.
Agreed, that's where I am.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
In terms of an action item.
I think women should payattention a little bit more to
men talking like whateverthey're talking about Ooh, good
one.
Just pay attention and try tosee the patterns, because we
can't wait on them to give us achecklist of what they're
looking for.
But we are smart enough to readbetween the lines.
(32:59):
We can take this list of sixitems and reconcile it with, or
experience with, men in theworld and make sense of it.
Also, for both sides to acceptand appreciate that we all come
in with a shopping list.
Men have their shopping list,Women have their shopping list.
We don't need to compete.
We don't need to be angry atthe other side for wanting too
(33:21):
much.
We need to grow past that atthis point and just accept okay,
this is the guy that I want.
Here's what he's looking for.
I can either be it or not be it.
Bye.
So we've talked about the first bucket.
That has three traitsfemininity, looks and appearance
.
This next bucket of threetraits would be temperament,
intelligence and cooperation.
So let's break this downtemperament, intelligence and
cooperation.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Do you know?
And your tape?
He calls himself the mostgoogled guy out there, but I've
never googled him, so, bummer,he's about that one.
He speaks a lot aboutrelationships and men and women.
He made a statement that says awoman is a man's property and
he just left it there.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You don't want to leave, not first.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
He left it there.
That was just a clip that mostpeople were focused on, so there
was an uproar that how dare yousay that a woman is property?
But what he was trying toexplain was that if you Choose
to be with this man and you givehim permission to lead you,
(01:00):
then he has some authority overwhat happens, right?
Meaning, if you say, okay, Iwant you to be my protector,
then allow him to be theprotector and allow him to make
those decisions as a protector.
So he has that authority.
But the way it's interpreted ishe gets to boss you around and
he owns you like Chattel.
(01:21):
But I think it's just thedifference in how men and women
Communicate.
He uses words like authorityand property, whereas a woman
would prefer something a littlebit more Gentle.
Right, I'm looking out for you.
Yeah, I care for you yeah thereason why I brought it up was
because when we talk aboutSubmission, cooperation,
(01:44):
temperament, all those thingsbecause we're using different
words it feels like an attack.
When a man says I want asubmissive woman, it feels
excuse me, how dare you?
Right, but if he took some timeto just explain what he means
by submissive, then it's not asjarring to a woman and it's the
same thing with him.
Like he said authority and it'slike how dare you?
(02:07):
But when he explains it alittle bit more, yeah, I think
that is like decision rights.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
We're gonna write yeah decision rights and, like
in a workplace, you don't havepeople like overlapping each
other.
Yes, you have clear lanes ofoperation.
That doesn't mean you don'tconsult other people in those
decision-making, but you havefull Cape Blanchette, as I like
to say yeah over the answer.
Like you own the outcome, likeyes it stops with you.
Does Valden have full decisionrights over over meals?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
The answer is no.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, there's definitely no what the time,
like how you divide up your,your tasks at home.
Yeah, and so, like, you ownthose lanes and you take pride
in those lanes because youcontrol when they're done, how
they're done, and the end goalis yours.
Yes, that to me is adecision-right lane like a
(02:58):
decision-right element.
Yes, and so when you talk about,like, the biggest thing in
relationships is Finances, a lotof conversation around finances
, who does the bills, that is,who has decision rights over the
bills being paid right, thatdoesn't mean that you don't have
conversations about them.
That doesn't mean that youdon't sit down and evaluate and
(03:18):
do you want to keep going withthese monthly fees for this
particular service?
That doesn't mean that he orshe depending on who it is in
the relationship owns the bills.
We're gonna just cancel Netflixbecause they decided that they
didn't want to have it anymore.
No one's gonna just randomlycancel stuff.
And so when you use languagethat feels and language is very
(03:40):
time-based and so using thingslike Property or submissive,
like you know that people aregonna get upset and miss your
entire meaning.
Yeah, but when you define it, Iown this outcome.
That doesn't mean that I don'tconsult, but at the end of the
day, the responsibilities on meto make that decision.
So here's where.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I see the whole proposition thing become
important out here.
Men say they're looking for awoman To join in on their
purpose.
Right, so they are.
They're already full speedahead to where they're showing
and they would just love to havesomeone come on to support that
.
Now we have women who are alsosaying the same thing.
I have my purpose, full speedahead and I want a man to come
(04:21):
in and join that.
They put heads when they'reboth trying to go full speed
ahead doing Mm-hmm, whateverthey want to do.
That's gonna be a difficultrelationship, because who then
gets to make the decisions right?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Definitely say you guys come up with goals together
.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It's a little difficult to say that, because
the goals of the unit are mostlyhis our relationship is pretty
Traditional.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I would say yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
so I went into things knowing that I'm not gonna be
Trying to compete with wherehe's trying to go.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You're not gonna decide after Valin being very
clear about what he wants andThrough your dating and
courtship, and then you getmarried and then you go.
I think I'm gonna be a nurseand so.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's a good.
That's a good example.
Let me first clarify thatintentionally wanted to marry a
woman that I could take care ofand she could take care of me.
Correct Now, my taking care ofher is through making sure she's
got a place to live, make sureshe's got food on the plate,
make sure she can buy all thenecessities of life and she can
be happy with.
That's me taking care of herFull person.
(05:32):
Yeah, Her taking care of me istraditional in the sense that
she's gonna make sure I got somefood on my plate.
She's gonna make sure myclothes are clean.
She's gonna make sure my officeis clean.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Buying those shirts you like.
Yeah, that's the dynamic.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
We went into the relationship with Now she got to
a point where she wanted to dosomething right and she decided
she wanted to do real estate.
And she didn't just decide shewas gonna do real estate, leave
the house.
She came to me and and and wehad a conversation actually.
I think I asked you to do realestate.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, maybe we'll pick one of the other jobs you
tried, because she was a cakedecorator for some years.
I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh my gosh, that's right.
Wait, I remember you told meabout that, because you had all
these like cake decoratingthings, yeah, but the point of
that conversation?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
the point of this conversation, is just to simply
say that we work as a team.
Right, we do work as a team.
I am the captain of that team.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But I lean on her heavily.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, she's a solid first mate.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah to help make decisions and that sort of thing
.
But at the end of the day, ifit needs to come down to a vote,
my vote is bigger.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I know, going into the relationship, I'm talented
in a lot of areas.
I could run a household bymyself.
But I have to make a decisionbefore entering.
Okay, who's going to have thelast say?
Because we can't both have thelast say.
So, even though I may be goodat casting a vision, I will say
okay, that's your box, you takecare of that.
(06:59):
He can say I'm not good atfinances, so he passes that job
over to me.
So I will have final say onfinances, because I just manage
that.
But at the end of the day I'mdoing the finances because of
where he is on his path.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and the only thing I'll correct you on is
that the final say in thefinances does come back to me.
It does.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But I think cooperation and temperament
blend a lot, because cooperationbeing this understanding of
where do you fit in thisrelationship, and I think
temperament is how you expressyour understanding of where you
fit in this relationship.
(07:46):
Because I feel like when Ithink about temperament, it is
like how calming are you, likesome of those factors that go
toward when you're upset?
How do you express your upsets?
Yeah, when you're having areally bad day and your
partner's having a really greatday, like how do you separate
(08:06):
them?
Mm-hmm, you're in a really badmood but you're thrilled to
death for them, and it doesn'thave to be all consuming.
And so it is just your abilityto be able to navigate that
relationship authentically,without smooshing down your
feelings of bummerness Again,very critical bummerness title
(08:27):
there but not squishing thosedown and pretending like they
don't exist, but acknowledgingthem.
And it can be both and, and Ithink that's how I view
temperament.
I don't necessarily thinkthat's how it's really defined.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, the only thing I would add to that is
temperament matters across theboard, like I care about how you
sound and act and feel all overthe world, not just in the
context of us being in the housetogether.
Cooperation not so much Ihaven't thought about this long
(09:01):
enough but I see cooperationfrom an attractiveness
standpoint because, again, we'retalking about men and women.
From an attractivenessstandpoint I'm more concerned
about you being cooperative tome, with me, not necessarily
more concerned about you beingcooperative with other people,
but really depends on thetemperament plays a piece in
that, because if you're a personwho's just objectionable to
(09:22):
everybody, right, that's aproblem, sure sure.
And at least that's partcooperation and that's
definitely part of temperamentright.
Who wants a woman, who'sobnoxious out in public or
doesn't know how to control heremotions and anger, or makes
people feel bad about themselves, like all of those things
(09:43):
temperament pieces, in myopinion, that a guy would care
about.
Because one very important thingthat women should understand is
that status is important to men, right, and we look at women as
an asset to our status.
Right, as horrible as it mightsound to some people or it might
(10:04):
feel bad, but we look at themas an asset to our status and,
depending on where a guy is, whohe is, what kind of work he's
doing, what kind of people he'saround, he has to be aware of
that.
He has to be aware that hiswoman affects his status and
most men are when at thechoosing phase, most men are.
I've heard many examples in mylife where a guy didn't choose a
(10:27):
woman, not because he didn'tlike her, but the idea of a guy
saying, oh man, I really lovethis lady, but she's overweight,
I can't marry her.
That is because he's trying toprotect his status, right or
wrong.
Right or wrong, that's justwhat it is.
The point of this wholeconversation is to say that
status matters to men.
So temperament plays a big part, because who you are reflects
(10:52):
me as a man.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think status plays some role with women, but
definitely not in the same waythat it does with men.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, again we're talking sexual market value
stuff right.
Women care about a guy's status.
Yes, men don't necessarily careabout a woman's status.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
From an attraction standpoint.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay.
So from the perspective of menlooking for a woman, they don't
care about a woman's status.
They want a woman to add to hisstatus.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Exactly.
They care about her status.
If her status helps his status,oh okay, oh okay.
So the only thing I'm trying toget across here, well that's
not an absolute statement.
Yeah, the only point I'm tryingto make is that men and we're
just bred this way competition,status and those things are just
bred inside of us.
So when we're talking aboutwomen, if I'm coaching a woman,
(11:45):
part of my goal is to help herunderstand men better and not to
tell her what to do with thatinformation.
We can get to the part oftelling her what to do with that
information, but women justhave to understand men first,
just understand the nature ofmen, because this is where the
conversation goes south a lot ofthe time.
Because remember when we talkedabout the statistic that most
(12:06):
men find 22-year-old womenattractive, totally Right when
we had that conversation andthat message has been out there
on the web wherever and peopleare just all up in arms about
that thing and women startshaming men and insulting men
and all this sort of thing.
And if I was talking to a woman,I would say listen, all I want
you to do is just understandthat.
Just that's how we come out ofthe box.
(12:26):
That we find a 22-year-old moreattractive than any other age,
right, doesn't matter if I'm 50years old or 40 years old Now
that does not influence what I'mgoing to do with my life and
how I'm going to treat thatinformation.
Like, I think, the new Corvette,so like the coolest sports cars
out there, but I don't want aCorvette.
(12:47):
I think 22-year-old women areattractive, very attractive.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I don't want one of them.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I'm saying so.
The goal is to help youunderstand the nature of us so
you know what's important to usand you can use that as a tool
to help you be a better personfor him if you love that guy.
Because I want to be a betterperson to my wife if I love my
wife.
But I can't do that unless I golearn and understand women at
the core.
(13:13):
You could say women are veryemotional, but it doesn't mean
that they're going to be off thedeep end all the time.
But, if I know that about them,then I can at least move in a
way that's conducive to how sheis you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like this bucket should just be
renamed with the hot spicybucket.
These are difficult becausethen you move to intelligence,
like, a man doesn't care about awoman's status We've talked
about before.
A man doesn't care about awoman's education.
But intelligence is differentthan education.
Education is somewhat formal.
Intelligence can be gatheredover time or Situational learned
(13:53):
.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I think that's the interest piece.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like you're an interesting person, yeah, and
the piece that I like to add tothat is Education.
It matters to men in a waythat's different than women
think it matters to men.
It matters to men, to yourpoint, because we do like
intelligence right, andEducation can signal
(14:17):
intelligence.
Right, because you still have tohave a conversation with
somebody you can't just let themsit there on a right, yeah, and
depending on where a guy is inlife, he wants to be able to
take you places and and not feellike you're a kid.
But that's just.
Some guys want to take youplaces and are happy to expose
you to new things and teach younew things all the time.
And then there's some guys whocare about it because there's an
(14:39):
inherent feeling that you have,if somebody has done some work
and done something with theirlife, that they're not after
what you have done as opposed tosomebody who hadn't done
anything with their life, andyou go take them on.
You got this thing in the backof your head saying one day, if
she's here for the right reasons.
So my point is education andmoney.
You can see how those thingscan be attractive I don't want
(15:04):
to use the word attractivebecause they still don't belong
in the sexual market valuecolumn but you can see how they
add to you exactly.
You can see how he can careabout those things.
Yes, but he cares about them ina different way.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Then the women, because of the outcome that come
, because what?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
it signals and because of the things that come
from it, whereas women have atendency to say I've got this
degree, you guys get what I'msaying.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
But like the people who flex their titles, yeah,
versus the people who Flex whatthey have from their titles.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, at least that's how.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think about it.
Yes, because everyone knows atitle flexer and you don't
really know why you're flexingthat when people want to get to
the things behind that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Is it fair to say, or does it make sense to say, that
men care about how women makethem look and Women care about
how men make them feel?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I don't think, absolutely, absolutely okay,
because it when I also careabout how a man makes me look
and I care about how a womanmakes me feel.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Okay, never mind, scratch that then.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay, we care about how people like you.
You can make me feel like a man, and we know when some women
out there make their man feellike kids what I meant was when
you're prioritizing what youcare about.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I understand that men care more about how the world
sees him.
Yes, he wants to feel good, buthis priority is Do my friends
think I'm cool?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah the only problem I have with that statement is
saying that it's a priority,like, when I talk about those
things, I'm talking about theinherent part of men, that this
is, you know, out of the box, wecome out wanting to be
competitive, and that that wholeidea of competition, mm-hmm, is
the idea of status.
Yeah, you your winners.
(16:52):
You beat these guys down here.
Yeah and we compete with eachother.
I compete with other engineerslike I, compete in every aspect
of life and that's just the partthat motivates us.
Like the competition in a guyMotivates us to move forward, to
get higher.
Like there guys out there whohave millions and millions of
dollars but work harder than thedudes that make 35 thousand
(17:13):
dollars a year if you had tochoose, though, there's a woman
that makes you feel good, andthere's a woman that elevates
you, makes you look good.
Yeah, that's, that's a Me.
I have an answer for that, butI don't think the answer.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I think that definitely I think that would
fall in the category of usethese traits and Understand them
, and then the type of personthat you're interested in.
They're gonna put weight ondifferent ones.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, okay, I want people to be better at
relationships.
I really want.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I think we need to do an episode on what is a dating
coach.
We've talked a lot about it andis scattered throughout a lot
of our episodes.
But like, how do you thinkabout a dating coach?
Like, how do you price a datingcoach?
I imagine that like marketplaceis wild and crazy, much like
business coaches how long shouldyou have one?
Is there, like some likebaseline skillset?
(18:05):
Like how do you know?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
when you have a good one.
Yeah, yes, probably the mostimportant is yes, because what I
worry about is Someone sayingokay, I got a dating coach, and
rather than them getting closerand closer to their goal,
they're just moving further andfurther away.
There there's some coaches thatstill focus very heavily on
Text messaging, for example.
(18:27):
Right, where they prioritize.
Here's how soon you should texta guy back after the date and
hear what you should say and usethese words.
It's not terrible Advice, butit's not where I think the focus
should be.
So I think it's important forpeople to do a little homework
behind choosing.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, that's a big conversation and I don't have
all the answers to it, but Ithink about that a lot because
you know what you just mentioned.
I call that tactical coaching.
Okay, and I'm not a tacticalcoach, I'm a perspective coach
because I want to ask the rightquestions and find out enough
about you to guide you in adirection.
They help you get to theoutcome that you're looking for.
(19:08):
But Just generally speaking,think about therapists.
Like we've been to tons oftherapists in our lives and most
of them were terrible, yeah,and.
But then we watched the showwhere this guy was a really good
therapist, but he was a goodtherapist to celebrities.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And the key thing there is, when we were sitting
with the bad Therapist, like wehad to lean on our own
intelligence to say, okay, wewill not listen to like, like,
oh, wow, but there are somepeople who can't do that.
They would say okay.
My therapist said do is, I'mgonna go do it, which is that's
crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah so there's a little bit of a theme with our
buckets and with our traits, andeven with this conversation
about coaching.
Maybe it's just coming out tome, because of Some of the
things that I'm thinking about,of just clicking through the
boxes or checking things off, tosay we're checking them off and
doing the stuff and okay, we'vedone this, so let's go to the
(20:02):
next thing.
I think the intent and Desirearound it is what matters more
than the actual things itself.
The things point you as amilestone on that road to get
closer to where you want to go.
But if we look at even thevisual bucket and the
(20:23):
interpersonal bucket of this FIMscore, they're not all.
They're not all things you cango through.
And okay, I'm now feminine.
Yeah, okay, I'm now like mylooks are great.
Yeah, okay, my parents isfantastic.
Yeah, okay, I'm now intelligent, like all of these things are
growing and evolving with you asa person.
Yeah, and continuing to changeand shift, because the landscape
(20:48):
changes, styles change.
For starters, people peoplechange, and then intelligence is
one of those things that Ithink the most alluring thing
about intelligence is that itcan improve and Grow and change
and you can add new aspects toyour intelligence.
We were talking earlier aboutwine.
(21:09):
That's one of the things I loveabout wine is that you can
never learn it all.
Yeah, you can never learn itall, and I think even that
approach to life of you can justcontinue to learn, you continue
to grow even that alone isalluring and is appealing to
people Because it shows you havea growth mindset over a fixed
(21:30):
mindset.
So I think there's so much tointelligence that is is beyond
what's your degree?
Yeah.
What did you go to school for?
Yeah, did you finish school?
What do you do professionally?
And I think even the clampscore and the FIM score really
get to.
How are you as a person Growingand evolving and presenting
(21:53):
yourself outside of the thingsyou can read on paper?
Yeah, I think that's theencouraging part about it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, when I think about the clamp score.
When I'm having thisconversation with the guy, I can
ask him on a scale of one toten, where's your level of
confidence with women?
It's normally what I would sayand they would give me a number,
right, as far as looks areconcerned, on a scale of one to
ten.
Where do you think you are withlove and so forth?
It's quantifiable in the mindsof people.
(22:21):
It can be quantifiable, right,when we think about the things
that in FIM score, I don't know,can we quantify Femininity,
like, on a scale of one to ten?
Or I could ask that question ona scale of one to the ten how
feminine do you think you are?
No, no answer is right or wrongand again, this is the tool to
just to start the conversationup.
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I was thinking about that as Debbie was talking
through like getting closer to60, and I was trying to think is
math part of this?
Can you assign yourself anumber?
Whenever people rate themselvesindividually, they're always
skewed based on your ownunderstanding of yourself.
But that's the point, though.
Like you wanted for you to sitthere and say, hey, my
(23:03):
Appearance can be better, but Ifeel like I am pretty feminine,
so I feel good on that one, butI can improve my appearance and
that's not quite as high.
What are some things that I cando to improve my appearance?
A lot of these probably open updoors to conversations that
you've already had, but givenyou more Achievable pathway to
(23:23):
get them, because it's not justI need to be a better person.
Like I suck.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You have to Figure out where you are yeah and you
figure that out by at leastasking what do you think you are
in this?
Now my assessment might betotally different.
But if my assessment isdifferent, then my creative
coaching will illuminate that atsome point.
But how?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
would you do that with temperament?
Because in our conversationabout temperament and maybe even
cooperation, they somewhatsituationally driven, because if
you're in a good place, likeyou don't feel like you are in a
toxic environment or you Areworking through what you need to
work through or you're tryingto change your attitude and
(24:03):
perspective about certainsituations.
Like I know that my temperamentis wildly different when I'm in
a toxic space and I know thatabout myself.
Like I am much more combative,even if I'm trying to coach
myself and say that, hey, weneed to change our perspective
here or ask different questions.
But even how you ask thequestion that you are doing your
(24:23):
best to ask in a way that isnot combative, to get around it.
Like how do you quantify that?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
So for a friend, I think there's a difference
between Knowing it for yourselfbut also knowing it for the guy.
So I can do the full-body scanand say, okay, personality wise,
this is where I am, temperamentwise, this is where I am and
I'm at be comfortable with that.
I'm comfortable with how Itreat people, I'm comfortable
(24:52):
with my personality in general.
But then, when I don't want toget into a relationship with
someone, is that personalitysomething that would be
attracted to the guy?
So sometimes you ask women, howdo you rate yourself?
And they're like I'm a 10.
I just know I'm a 10, but you,they might be a 10 to themselves
.
But if I say, in terms of beingattracted to a guy, where do
(25:13):
you think he would rate you,then they might pause in it
Maybe a seven, maybe a six.
So it's two, two differentapproaches which, when we say
you get to know yourself first IKnow myself, I know what my
temperament is, but then I alsoneed to understand what a guy is
looking for and if I identifythat he wants a Certain
(25:35):
temperament, I can then chooseto adjust or choose to find
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Temperament is not something I feel like I can
measure.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It is an isolated trait, you know.
I'm saying like you can measurecooperativeness, let's just use
introversion and extroversionright.
Let's see, an extrovertedperson has a temperament.
It could be a good one or a badone, but just generally
speaking, I can want atemperament of a woman that is
outgoing and Extroverted,friendly, like I could think to
(26:08):
myself.
I want someone with that typeof a temperament because I
entertain a lot and I wantsomebody who can share a Life
where there's gonna be lots ofentertaining people.
The type of thing I'm justsaying is a lot around
temperament.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
What's the difference between temperament and
personality?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
so my gut and it could be wrong, but my gut would
say Temperament is sometimesalso how people feel around you.
So I used to maybe sit a tonwhen I was younger and there
were some kids that were justwhen they were around you.
They were just calming, likethey could be doing crazy kid
(26:44):
things, but when they werearound you you just felt calm,
you felt easy, and that's how Iview some of temperament.
Even if they're in a bad spaceor in a toxic environment,
they're not when you're withthem.
You don't feel hyper all thetime or like you have to try to
overcompensate.
So let me give you thisdefinition from psych central.
(27:04):
I'm sure it's gonna be nothing,like I said, Just learn
something.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Definition of what temperament.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So I'm comparing temperament and personality.
Okay, so your temperament,sometimes called your
disposition, refers to an aspectof your personality that's
influenced by your biology.
It's not your experiences.
Your personality involves yourthoughts, beliefs and
dispositions, or temperament.
So temperament would fall underthe umbrella of personality.
(27:31):
I can see it and yourtemperament is influenced by
biology, where I guess yourthoughts and beliefs would be
influenced by your experiences.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, I have to think on that to fully digest it but,
I, get to digest it.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So temperament is just how I came out.
This is how.
So it's a little more nature,yeah.
So I guess that's the introvert, extrovert.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I guess that would also stand with the kid analogy
that I used, maybe Because hewas just naturally calming.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yes, yeah, because I do see that there's some things
about me.
That's just.
It's biologically who I am.
I've just always been this way.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, temperament and disposition are words that are
used quite a bit in Jane Austenbooks.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I don't know where that goes, but those are words
that are used a lot.
Okay.
Interesting, so Less abouttheir personality and more about
their disposition.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So it's kind of like looks and appearance.
There's one that you just can'tdo anything about, which is
your temperament, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's a good point, because my temperament is
different than what I have to doevery day.
If you were to ask people inthe engineering community what
my personality is like theyYou'd be like.
Who are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I would love to hear that.
I think that would be a lot offun.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'm curious to know.
I was going to ask you Do youthink I am a serious stern
person?
Honestly?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't think that's your temperament.
I think that would more bepersonality, because you change.
So when you are in a customerservice environment you get a
little bit more mean mode, butwhen you're dealing with your
friends you're just like superhelpful, super nice, super kind.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I would say that you're serious, not stern.
I know I'm from the otherenvironment, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
It's mean versus nice .
Speaker 2 (29:21):
She said mean.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
We're not that way all the time maybe 10% of the
time, I think, when you are inan environment that you I
wouldn't say feel safe, becauseI feel like that's not the right
word I would use but if you'rein an environment where you feel
is more collaborative orcooperative, then you're
probably different.
I'm a little more serious aboutthe things that you do, because
(29:46):
life is important and it'sserious.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
When people don't meet your expectations, you
don't have the patience for it,but for the most part you're a
nice guy.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I would say you're a nice guy.
I find it so helpful when youcan think in buckets and think
in boxes and create your ownmilestone.
What I want is I want people tobe more curious from this by
providing tools and words aroundthings, whether it's with the
clamp score or the FIM score.
(30:17):
The FIM score obviously mattersa little bit more to me than
the clamp score does, but I findmyself being more curious when
I engage with other people, whenI hear people tell stories, or
even when my friends tell meabout their dating experiences.
I am immediately putting thingsinto buckets, like assigning
(30:38):
traits to stuff.
I feel like sometimes my mindis a beautiful mind where things
are floating around and I'mpulling them into spaces.
That's just really fun for me.
I also would like for peoplefor the women listening and the
men too, but largely the womento be hopeful.
It's not all or nothing.
(31:00):
I think in dating, so manytimes it feels all or nothing
because it does go from nothingto something in a blink of an
eye when you think aboutyourself and how you're trying
to improve yourself.
Ultimately, people are moreattracted to people who care
about themselves, not this weirdself-help language or this
(31:24):
overuse of self-care.
But you're more attractive andmore alluring as a person when
you are not so focused onyourself.
In many cases, when you're notfocused on yourself is when
you're the healthiest version ofyourself.
To work on yourself to improvewho you are makes you more
(31:46):
alluring because you're notalways constantly focused on
yourself.
It doesn't really make thatmuch sense on the surface, but
the healthiest form of who youare is what you're trying to go
for.
The more you figure that out isthrough tools like this or
self-assessments or I'll say itfor Valden, a dating coach.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, that's my thought.
I like the idea of wantingpeople to be more curious about
it, because the general themefor me is that I want people to
have better skills in thisrelationship space, because if
you have better tools, you candevelop better skills.
Relationship is the thing thatyou have to be skilled at.
(32:27):
If you want to be successful atdoing it, you've got to have
some level of skill.
I just hope these episodescontribute to that.
Agreed, that's where I am.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
In terms of an action item.
I think women should payattention a little bit more to
men talking like whateverthey're talking about Ooh, good
one.
Just pay attention and try tosee the patterns, because we
can't wait on them to give us achecklist of what they're
looking for.
But we are smart enough to readbetween the lines.
(32:59):
We can take this list of sixitems and reconcile it with, or
experience with, men in theworld and make sense of it.
Also, for both sides to acceptand appreciate that we all come
in with a shopping list.
Men have their shopping list,Women have their shopping list.
We don't need to compete.
We don't need to be angry atthe other side for wanting too
(33:21):
much.
We need to grow past that atthis point and just accept okay,
this is the guy that I want.
Here's what he's looking for.
I can either be it or not be it.
Bye.
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