January 23, 2024 • 17 mins
Embark on a journey with me, Igor Meystelman, as we unravel the complexities of relational intimacy that go far beyond the bedroom. Imagine a bond so intricate and profound, where emotional and physical closeness weave together, creating a tapestry of connection that is the bedrock of any romantic partnership. Throughout this episode, we illuminate the path to understanding and nurturing these non-physical aspects of intimacy, challenging the conventional wisdom that underscores gender roles and exploring the rich tapestry of individual desires that fuel a truly intimate relationship.
As we tackle the delicate interplay between emotional space and physical intimacy, we reveal how true closeness stems from a foundation of emotional security and appreciation. We address the often overlooked reality that for many, the journey to physical intimacy starts with an emotional connection, well before any physical interaction. Join the conversation, as we dissect the consequences of pressure and coercion in intimate relationships and emphasize the importance of empathy, shared effort, and a deep understanding between partners to promote an environment where genuine intimacy isn't just a goal, but a natural, flourishing aspect of a loving, dynamic partnership.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to dating, marriage and divorce
conversations where we analyze,navigate and troubleshoot all
stages of your romantic life.
I'm your host, igor Meistelman,a divorce attorney turned
relationship coach.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the show.
(00:31):
This is going to be, I feel,like a bit of a mix of sharing
ideas, concepts, things I get tosee in the trenches in the work
that I do.
At the same time, maybe we'llcome off as a bit of a rant.
I don't know.
I'm a little nervous if it willcome off that way, but at the
same time, the topic is just soprevalent, so problematic and
(00:52):
needs to be talked about.
There's just no way around this.
There's no way to skip it, noway to pretend it's not there.
I mean, people do it all thetime, with devastating results,
and so I'd like to at leastbegin some sort of a dialogue or
, at least at this moment, amonologue, and we'll see what it
stirs up in people'sconsciousness and how people
feel about this.
The topic I'm going to call itthe anatomy of relational
(01:16):
intimacy, and I'm giving thatname very specifically because
this is not an episode about sexphysical intimacy, so to speak,
in its purest form.
What is this supposed to looklike?
What is the Torah perspectiveon this topic?
Actually, I'm calling itanatomy of relational intimacy
because I feel like it's beenproven to me through the
(01:37):
conversations with hundreds ofcouples that what we really are
talking about, or what we wouldactually like to be talking
about, is the full picture ofintimacy, the complete analysis
and evaluation of what is takingplace.
And I think, given the level ofsophistication that the Jewish
world and the world at large isreaching, we can no longer
(01:58):
settle for a rigid applicationof the concepts of a male and a
female.
And what I mean by that is thatin mystical literature, in
various Torah sources, there'sdiscussion of how a man is a
mashpia, he's an influencer.
A woman is a macabre, she's areceiver from him, and that's
why even the biological is thesymbolic expression of the
(02:20):
spiritual.
And the woman's makeup physicalmakeup is clearly very
different than the man's.
Man's is, he's giving over toher something, he shares,
something.
That's a world of a potential,which is what man does create,
whereas woman's world is a worldof actualization.
She takes one of the man'spotentials and she nurtures it
for nine months and everythingelse is discarded and she
(02:42):
ultimately, alone, solo,delivers life into the world.
And yet, the more I speak tocouples and the more we get into
the anatomy, the intricacy ofwhat goes on in that relational
space, it just seems to me moreand more that we cannot simply
assign it to this rigid blackand white framework, because the
reality is that there are timeswe men would like to experience
(03:05):
receiving and there are timeswhen women would like to
experience being givers, andvice versa, and therefore the
conversation has to be morenuanced, it has to carry more
sensitivity to the fact thatthere will be individual factors
at work.
There are different strengths,different leanings, different
interests for each human beingand to simply say well, you're a
(03:27):
female, so it must be that youwill like this.
You're a male, it must be thatyou would like this.
It's just simply gonna be tooshort sighted and will not
resonate for some people,special people who will have
some unique bent to the story.
Now, if you're wondering whatthat preface being said, if
you're wondering what'sprompting this conversation,
well, first of all, it saddensme it truly does that so many
(03:49):
couples find themselvesstruggling in the arena of
physical intimacy.
Now, when we are young andwe're dating and we're newly
married, it seems like sky isthe limit, meaning the hormones
are raging and flying andfinally there's an opportunity
to experience physical intimacyin its purest physical form.
But this time passes and aschildren join the family and the
(04:11):
family dynamics become morecomplicated and the roles we
assume and play in our familiesbecome more complex, more
agitating, more draining.
It becomes harder to enjoyphysical intimacy, to engage in
it in a way that feels right,feels good, feels like this has
a place in my life and I cravefor it to have place in my life,
(04:33):
as opposed to what I call oneof us is a winner and one of us
is a loser in that aspect of ourrelationship.
So, for example, men generallyagain without making it a blank
statement generally are moreeasily aroused.
Men more easily are able toexperience the desire and the
(04:54):
arousal, the two terms that I'llbe using frequently, that are
very commonly used in the worldof sex therapy, to essentially
join the forces, both the desireand arousal, can almost happen
simultaneously, right, which iswhy a man could walk down the
street, see a pretty girl turnaround, whisper, whistle, I mean
, or you know clearly, with hiseyes be eyeing a female women.
(05:14):
While totally can do that aswell.
Very often don't operate thatway and certainly don't operate
that way in their intimate lives.
There is much more desire forconnection, emotional connection
, to be emotionally seen, todeeply feel, appreciated.
Now, for many men it's like amystery island.
It's a completely foreignconcept.
(05:36):
Appreciate it, feel seen.
What are you talking about?
It's physical intimacy, let'sget it on.
It literally almost carriesthis.
There's the act we get toengage in certain physical
activities.
We're both going to experienceenjoyment, engagement you know
of our different energies climaxand that's it.
And it massively, massivelymisses and, sadly to say and I'm
(05:59):
telling you anecdotally fromexperiences causes horrific
ruptures to the relationships.
And not only does it causethose ruptures but the recovery,
the healing process is enormous.
It's an enormous undertaking torecover from ruptures around
physical intimacy, because whenthere's an emotional rupture in
this area, restoring it isn'tgoing to happen by more physical
(06:22):
intimacy, it's going to happenby sitting down and saying wait,
what is it that my spouse needs?
What is it my spouse isexperiencing that I need to
address?
And I have to participateproactively, not passively, but
proactively.
I have to participate in someway to make it possible to bring
the relationship back intospace of joyfulness, curiosity,
(06:44):
enjoyment, a state of generaldesire, genuine desire to just
want to reach out, connect andbe in a physical and emotional
connection simultaneously.
And what's interesting is thatwhen we are feeling healthy
overall in our emotional healthso what I mean by that is I
don't feel I'm on guard, I don'tfeel I'm right now under attack
(07:05):
.
My world does not be criticized, my world is not being ignored
or not seen.
I feel cherished, I feel seen,I feel valued.
When that goes on, we naturally, almost by default, will want
to gravitate towards anexpression of love through
physical intimacy as well.
But it's when there is anemotional rupture.
I don't feel appreciated, Idon't feel seen, I don't feel
(07:27):
safe being around you.
I feel like you're going tocriticize me, you're going to
minimize, downplay, underminewhat it goes on in my world.
When that happens, for somereason, we also experience very
naturally a deactivation of adesire craving to experience
physical intimacy.
So it's also just veryinteresting to observe that the
way we're wired is in ournatural default state.
(07:48):
We want it, we crave it.
We could say God put it into usprecisely so we could continue
reproducing our own species.
So we will naturally seek itout the hormones that kick in
right from adolescence and forthe rest of our lives, hopefully
, are there to continuouslynudge at us.
And you know the idea of engage.
Engage, right, don't, don'tremain sort of in solitude and a
(08:10):
disconnect.
Right, when people talk abouthormonal balance, right,
essentially referring to likehey, wait a second, why am I not
craving intimacy?
Or like, why is there just nodesire?
Right, that's because somesomething is off, because that's
not a default state of humanbeing.
Well, guess what?
Just like we could hear how amedication, especially things
like like various psychiatricmedications, may shut off those
(08:33):
channels in the brain thatactivate physical desire for
intimacy, so, too, emotionalspace in a relationship can also
deactivate desire.
You see, if you're going tocriticize me enough times, if
you're going to point out enoughtimes that something's wrong
with me, if you're going to putme down, emasculate me, make me
(08:54):
feel like a loser, make me feellike I'm nothing, well, that
emotional, pressurized space isgoing to directly impact my
desire to want to be physicallyintimate.
And so we see them that it'snot only about oops, I'm taking
medication and so I have a lowsex drive.
No, I'm getting clobbered by myspouse and I have a low sex
drive.
Yes, that also exists.
(09:15):
It's not only about otherexternal forces, believe it or
not.
If this doesn't resonate for youyet, what resonates for most
couples I work with is anemotional space is not safe and
good and loving and nurturing,and instead it's toxic and
defensive.
And we have all these cycles ofcombativeness and tension.
There's very little drive forphysical connection.
(09:35):
I mean, I may still want purelythe physical act, but I don't
want the physical act in orderto connect with you.
I'm just using the act, whetherto self-soothe, whether to
pretend everything's okay orwhether I just want to express
my pure animalistic urges.
And with all this said, if anyof this still makes sense, then
I'm hoping this next step isgoing to make sense as well,
(09:56):
because this where we're nowreally going to enter into some
theory, what might almost seemhair splitting nuances, but they
make all the difference in theworld of whether the
relationship will be in atrajectory towards a deeply
meaningful emotional andphysical encounters or a place
of pain, place of invisibility,place of not feeling valued.
(10:18):
Now, what I'm hearing over andover again in my office is the
great gap, great divide betweenmen and women and how the
experience of intimacy takesplace.
And again, as we were sayingearlier today, for men it can be
a truly just a physicalexperience.
Okay, some basic connectionwill do, will be good enough,
(10:39):
but that is not experience formost women, for most women,
unless they are in exceptionallyhealthy place and they just
feel really, really good aboutthemselves because they have a
great self-esteem and becausetheir spouses or significant
others have been outstanding atdelivering love and care and
appreciation and demonstrationhow precious and valued and
(11:01):
cherished they are in theirhusband's eyes.
So there a woman couldexperience I guess we could call
it an instantaneous arousal,almost like mimicking a man.
A woman could just be there andbe like oh, I could feel a
desire for my loved one and Iwant to be close to them.
That is a experience that isvery limited in terms of how
(11:21):
many people have shared thattype of feedback, because for
overwhelming percentage of women, what is shared is I don't
receive in my intimate life whatI need.
And very common, not always,but very, very common.
What women start with is myintimacy with my husband does
not begin in the bedroom.
It begins way before we walkinto the bedroom.
(11:44):
I mean, think of the classicscenario a couple gets into a
fight and now it's time to go tobed and then they'll work next
day.
They're tired, they lie down inbed and the husband is
expressing that he is trying tomake advances.
He's expressing he's clearlyinterested in intimacy and the
wife turns him away and thehusband says what's the problem?
I mean, maybe this will help usmake up.
And the wife says do you knowhow far away I feel from you
right now?
(12:05):
If, assuming she felt braveenough to even tell him this, do
you know how far I feel from itNow?
Why?
What's the problem?
The fight happened two hoursago.
For you, the fight happened twohours ago.
You're ready to engage and justbe physical.
I don't work that way.
For me, the fight lives in methis moment, even though the
actual confrontation happenedtwo or three hours ago.
Because until the repair in theemotional space takes place,
(12:27):
it's very hard for me to alsoreengage the physical dimension
of the relationship.
And so now a man will findhimself in a dreaded experience
of.
I now have to sit and listen tomy wife and find a way to
demonstrate that I care, if notpretend and demonstrate to her
that I want to be better, I wantto improve, I want to work in
this area and, most importantly,I want to be here with you.
(12:49):
I want to be here for youbecause you deserve it, because
I love you, because you're myspouse.
You deserve to have for meunconditional love.
You don't only deserve to havefor me this time an attention
because of my ulterior motivehope that I'm going to get some
from this relationship, from you, and that is something that for
many men is just a massive pillto swallow, believe it or not.
(13:12):
For some men, conversation intheir heads goes like this what
do you mean?
That's why we're married, is itnot because you would be
available to me and I will bewith you and I will get feel of
physical intimacy from you, fromthis relationship.
And the challenge then becomesas how do we help?
For instance, in this case, menunderstand that you're going to
be married to a woman.
(13:33):
That's not her wiring, that'snot most of the time, that's not
how she's going to be aroused.
It was not going to be throughwhat happens in the moment, in
the here and now in the bedroom.
That journey began way, waybefore you got into this room,
and so if you are planning anight where you're hoping
there's going to be intimacy,that plan better not be limited
(13:55):
to the time you're going to beinside that room.
That plan better begin day plusin advance.
What else am I doing to show mywife that she's important, that
she's precious, that she matters?
What else can I introduce intothe conversations with her?
Whether try to understand herlove language and give her the
gifts in her love language,because it's typical mistake has
(14:15):
been comes home with flowersand wife is like I don't really
care about flowers.
I would have enjoyed if youlistened to me for 10 minutes,
because my love language isquality time and not gifts,
that's all.
So you figure out your spouse'slove language and you give them
that love language.
You continuously demonstrateyou are so important to me and
the physical interaction we'llhave is just the culmination of
the foundation of ourrelationship.
(14:37):
But if intimacy alone is goingto be what we'll attempt to lay
as the foundation of therelationship, it will come down
like a house of cards and leavepeople with trauma, with
animosity, with deeply, deeplyheld pain, because that is not
how women are wired most of thetime.
A woman needs a time andaffection and attention outside
(15:00):
of that bedroom and she needs tofeel and she has, for whatever
reason, got made it this way asa very strong antenna.
Are you doing this because youhave your own ulterior motive,
or I'm gonna do nice things foryou, meaning as a husband, but
now the wife says, oh, but Ihave to now have the pressure of
I have to also do this, asopposed to feeling from a
husband.
You know, I do these things foryou, my wife, because I love
(15:22):
you, and that's it.
There is nothing else.
I never want to be intimate,and you'll signal that to me or
you'll share with me explicitlythat I'd love to meet you where
you are, but I'm gonna free upthe space from being a
pressurized environment whereyou, my wife, have to feel this
pressure of I have to give themthis, or else I have to do this
or there'll be consequences forme, and instead we want to shift
(15:43):
that entire space and entireexperience into.
This is a safe place for me,where I could be my authentic
self, including around the realmof physical intimacy, and so
when I want to share that, Ineed something in order to meet
my own threshold of what will beneeded to make this enjoyable,
to make this desirable.
(16:03):
So then I know that you're myspouse, with whom I could safely
share those things, but ifeverything is coming from a
place of just like a pressurethat I have to perform, or else
I'm essentially coerced intogoing in this direction, or a
husband just saying what's yourproblem, which is a fancy way of
signaling I don't understandyour world and I'm not even
gonna make efforts to understandyour world, all of these things
(16:24):
will energize terrible pain andsuffering within the
relationship space, and so Ithink in the next episode, we
might discuss even more in moredetail, what can be the
relational dynamic that we couldput in place that will promote,
nurture and support relationalintimacy, as opposed to just
create a transactional spacewithin the relationship when it
(16:48):
comes to physical intimacy,which is only going to feel,
leave people with resentment,frustration, disappointment,
pain and ultimately not wantingto be experiencing physical
intimacy that a relationshipcould have.
See you next time.
Thank you for joining us today.
For questions, comments, topicsyou'd like to hear more about,
or to try out our 24 weekrelationship challenge, email us
at relationshipreimagined atgmail.
Hello and welcome to dating, marriage and divorce
conversations where we analyze,navigate and troubleshoot all
stages of your romantic life.
I'm your host, igor Meistelman,a divorce attorney turned
relationship coach.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the show.
(00:31):
This is going to be, I feel,like a bit of a mix of sharing
ideas, concepts, things I get tosee in the trenches in the work
that I do.
At the same time, maybe we'llcome off as a bit of a rant.
I don't know.
I'm a little nervous if it willcome off that way, but at the
same time, the topic is just soprevalent, so problematic and
(00:52):
needs to be talked about.
There's just no way around this.
There's no way to skip it, noway to pretend it's not there.
I mean, people do it all thetime, with devastating results,
and so I'd like to at leastbegin some sort of a dialogue or
, at least at this moment, amonologue, and we'll see what it
stirs up in people'sconsciousness and how people
feel about this.
The topic I'm going to call itthe anatomy of relational
(01:16):
intimacy, and I'm giving thatname very specifically because
this is not an episode about sexphysical intimacy, so to speak,
in its purest form.
What is this supposed to looklike?
What is the Torah perspectiveon this topic?
Actually, I'm calling itanatomy of relational intimacy
because I feel like it's beenproven to me through the
(01:37):
conversations with hundreds ofcouples that what we really are
talking about, or what we wouldactually like to be talking
about, is the full picture ofintimacy, the complete analysis
and evaluation of what is takingplace.
And I think, given the level ofsophistication that the Jewish
world and the world at large isreaching, we can no longer
(01:58):
settle for a rigid applicationof the concepts of a male and a
female.
And what I mean by that is thatin mystical literature, in
various Torah sources, there'sdiscussion of how a man is a
mashpia, he's an influencer.
A woman is a macabre, she's areceiver from him, and that's
why even the biological is thesymbolic expression of the
(02:20):
spiritual.
And the woman's makeup physicalmakeup is clearly very
different than the man's.
Man's is, he's giving over toher something, he shares,
something.
That's a world of a potential,which is what man does create,
whereas woman's world is a worldof actualization.
She takes one of the man'spotentials and she nurtures it
for nine months and everythingelse is discarded and she
(02:42):
ultimately, alone, solo,delivers life into the world.
And yet, the more I speak tocouples and the more we get into
the anatomy, the intricacy ofwhat goes on in that relational
space, it just seems to me moreand more that we cannot simply
assign it to this rigid blackand white framework, because the
reality is that there are timeswe men would like to experience
(03:05):
receiving and there are timeswhen women would like to
experience being givers, andvice versa, and therefore the
conversation has to be morenuanced, it has to carry more
sensitivity to the fact thatthere will be individual factors
at work.
There are different strengths,different leanings, different
interests for each human beingand to simply say well, you're a
(03:27):
female, so it must be that youwill like this.
You're a male, it must be thatyou would like this.
It's just simply gonna be tooshort sighted and will not
resonate for some people,special people who will have
some unique bent to the story.
Now, if you're wondering whatthat preface being said, if
you're wondering what'sprompting this conversation,
well, first of all, it saddensme it truly does that so many
(03:49):
couples find themselvesstruggling in the arena of
physical intimacy.
Now, when we are young andwe're dating and we're newly
married, it seems like sky isthe limit, meaning the hormones
are raging and flying andfinally there's an opportunity
to experience physical intimacyin its purest physical form.
But this time passes and aschildren join the family and the
(04:11):
family dynamics become morecomplicated and the roles we
assume and play in our familiesbecome more complex, more
agitating, more draining.
It becomes harder to enjoyphysical intimacy, to engage in
it in a way that feels right,feels good, feels like this has
a place in my life and I cravefor it to have place in my life,
(04:33):
as opposed to what I call oneof us is a winner and one of us
is a loser in that aspect of ourrelationship.
So, for example, men generallyagain without making it a blank
statement generally are moreeasily aroused.
Men more easily are able toexperience the desire and the
(04:54):
arousal, the two terms that I'llbe using frequently, that are
very commonly used in the worldof sex therapy, to essentially
join the forces, both the desireand arousal, can almost happen
simultaneously, right, which iswhy a man could walk down the
street, see a pretty girl turnaround, whisper, whistle, I mean
, or you know clearly, with hiseyes be eyeing a female women.
(05:14):
While totally can do that aswell.
Very often don't operate thatway and certainly don't operate
that way in their intimate lives.
There is much more desire forconnection, emotional connection
, to be emotionally seen, todeeply feel, appreciated.
Now, for many men it's like amystery island.
It's a completely foreignconcept.
(05:36):
Appreciate it, feel seen.
What are you talking about?
It's physical intimacy, let'sget it on.
It literally almost carriesthis.
There's the act we get toengage in certain physical
activities.
We're both going to experienceenjoyment, engagement you know
of our different energies climaxand that's it.
And it massively, massivelymisses and, sadly to say and I'm
(05:59):
telling you anecdotally fromexperiences causes horrific
ruptures to the relationships.
And not only does it causethose ruptures but the recovery,
the healing process is enormous.
It's an enormous undertaking torecover from ruptures around
physical intimacy, because whenthere's an emotional rupture in
this area, restoring it isn'tgoing to happen by more physical
(06:22):
intimacy, it's going to happenby sitting down and saying wait,
what is it that my spouse needs?
What is it my spouse isexperiencing that I need to
address?
And I have to participateproactively, not passively, but
proactively.
I have to participate in someway to make it possible to bring
the relationship back intospace of joyfulness, curiosity,
(06:44):
enjoyment, a state of generaldesire, genuine desire to just
want to reach out, connect andbe in a physical and emotional
connection simultaneously.
And what's interesting is thatwhen we are feeling healthy
overall in our emotional healthso what I mean by that is I
don't feel I'm on guard, I don'tfeel I'm right now under attack
(07:05):
.
My world does not be criticized, my world is not being ignored
or not seen.
I feel cherished, I feel seen,I feel valued.
When that goes on, we naturally, almost by default, will want
to gravitate towards anexpression of love through
physical intimacy as well.
But it's when there is anemotional rupture.
I don't feel appreciated, Idon't feel seen, I don't feel
(07:27):
safe being around you.
I feel like you're going tocriticize me, you're going to
minimize, downplay, underminewhat it goes on in my world.
When that happens, for somereason, we also experience very
naturally a deactivation of adesire craving to experience
physical intimacy.
So it's also just veryinteresting to observe that the
way we're wired is in ournatural default state.
(07:48):
We want it, we crave it.
We could say God put it into usprecisely so we could continue
reproducing our own species.
So we will naturally seek itout the hormones that kick in
right from adolescence and forthe rest of our lives, hopefully
, are there to continuouslynudge at us.
And you know the idea of engage.
Engage, right, don't, don'tremain sort of in solitude and a
(08:10):
disconnect.
Right, when people talk abouthormonal balance, right,
essentially referring to likehey, wait a second, why am I not
craving intimacy?
Or like, why is there just nodesire?
Right, that's because somesomething is off, because that's
not a default state of humanbeing.
Well, guess what?
Just like we could hear how amedication, especially things
like like various psychiatricmedications, may shut off those
(08:33):
channels in the brain thatactivate physical desire for
intimacy, so, too, emotionalspace in a relationship can also
deactivate desire.
You see, if you're going tocriticize me enough times, if
you're going to point out enoughtimes that something's wrong
with me, if you're going to putme down, emasculate me, make me
(08:54):
feel like a loser, make me feellike I'm nothing, well, that
emotional, pressurized space isgoing to directly impact my
desire to want to be physicallyintimate.
And so we see them that it'snot only about oops, I'm taking
medication and so I have a lowsex drive.
No, I'm getting clobbered by myspouse and I have a low sex
drive.
Yes, that also exists.
(09:15):
It's not only about otherexternal forces, believe it or
not.
If this doesn't resonate for youyet, what resonates for most
couples I work with is anemotional space is not safe and
good and loving and nurturing,and instead it's toxic and
defensive.
And we have all these cycles ofcombativeness and tension.
There's very little drive forphysical connection.
(09:35):
I mean, I may still want purelythe physical act, but I don't
want the physical act in orderto connect with you.
I'm just using the act, whetherto self-soothe, whether to
pretend everything's okay orwhether I just want to express
my pure animalistic urges.
And with all this said, if anyof this still makes sense, then
I'm hoping this next step isgoing to make sense as well,
(09:56):
because this where we're nowreally going to enter into some
theory, what might almost seemhair splitting nuances, but they
make all the difference in theworld of whether the
relationship will be in atrajectory towards a deeply
meaningful emotional andphysical encounters or a place
of pain, place of invisibility,place of not feeling valued.
(10:18):
Now, what I'm hearing over andover again in my office is the
great gap, great divide betweenmen and women and how the
experience of intimacy takesplace.
And again, as we were sayingearlier today, for men it can be
a truly just a physicalexperience.
Okay, some basic connectionwill do, will be good enough,
(10:39):
but that is not experience formost women, for most women,
unless they are in exceptionallyhealthy place and they just
feel really, really good aboutthemselves because they have a
great self-esteem and becausetheir spouses or significant
others have been outstanding atdelivering love and care and
appreciation and demonstrationhow precious and valued and
(11:01):
cherished they are in theirhusband's eyes.
So there a woman couldexperience I guess we could call
it an instantaneous arousal,almost like mimicking a man.
A woman could just be there andbe like oh, I could feel a
desire for my loved one and Iwant to be close to them.
That is a experience that isvery limited in terms of how
(11:21):
many people have shared thattype of feedback, because for
overwhelming percentage of women, what is shared is I don't
receive in my intimate life whatI need.
And very common, not always,but very, very common.
What women start with is myintimacy with my husband does
not begin in the bedroom.
It begins way before we walkinto the bedroom.
(11:44):
I mean, think of the classicscenario a couple gets into a
fight and now it's time to go tobed and then they'll work next
day.
They're tired, they lie down inbed and the husband is
expressing that he is trying tomake advances.
He's expressing he's clearlyinterested in intimacy and the
wife turns him away and thehusband says what's the problem?
I mean, maybe this will help usmake up.
And the wife says do you knowhow far away I feel from you
right now?
(12:05):
If, assuming she felt braveenough to even tell him this, do
you know how far I feel from itNow?
Why?
What's the problem?
The fight happened two hoursago.
For you, the fight happened twohours ago.
You're ready to engage and justbe physical.
I don't work that way.
For me, the fight lives in methis moment, even though the
actual confrontation happenedtwo or three hours ago.
Because until the repair in theemotional space takes place,
(12:27):
it's very hard for me to alsoreengage the physical dimension
of the relationship.
And so now a man will findhimself in a dreaded experience
of.
I now have to sit and listen tomy wife and find a way to
demonstrate that I care, if notpretend and demonstrate to her
that I want to be better, I wantto improve, I want to work in
this area and, most importantly,I want to be here with you.
(12:49):
I want to be here for youbecause you deserve it, because
I love you, because you're myspouse.
You deserve to have for meunconditional love.
You don't only deserve to havefor me this time an attention
because of my ulterior motivehope that I'm going to get some
from this relationship, from you, and that is something that for
many men is just a massive pillto swallow, believe it or not.
(13:12):
For some men, conversation intheir heads goes like this what
do you mean?
That's why we're married, is itnot because you would be
available to me and I will bewith you and I will get feel of
physical intimacy from you, fromthis relationship.
And the challenge then becomesas how do we help?
For instance, in this case, menunderstand that you're going to
be married to a woman.
(13:33):
That's not her wiring, that'snot most of the time, that's not
how she's going to be aroused.
It was not going to be throughwhat happens in the moment, in
the here and now in the bedroom.
That journey began way, waybefore you got into this room,
and so if you are planning anight where you're hoping
there's going to be intimacy,that plan better not be limited
(13:55):
to the time you're going to beinside that room.
That plan better begin day plusin advance.
What else am I doing to show mywife that she's important, that
she's precious, that she matters?
What else can I introduce intothe conversations with her?
Whether try to understand herlove language and give her the
gifts in her love language,because it's typical mistake has
(14:15):
been comes home with flowersand wife is like I don't really
care about flowers.
I would have enjoyed if youlistened to me for 10 minutes,
because my love language isquality time and not gifts,
that's all.
So you figure out your spouse'slove language and you give them
that love language.
You continuously demonstrateyou are so important to me and
the physical interaction we'llhave is just the culmination of
the foundation of ourrelationship.
(14:37):
But if intimacy alone is goingto be what we'll attempt to lay
as the foundation of therelationship, it will come down
like a house of cards and leavepeople with trauma, with
animosity, with deeply, deeplyheld pain, because that is not
how women are wired most of thetime.
A woman needs a time andaffection and attention outside
(15:00):
of that bedroom and she needs tofeel and she has, for whatever
reason, got made it this way asa very strong antenna.
Are you doing this because youhave your own ulterior motive,
or I'm gonna do nice things foryou, meaning as a husband, but
now the wife says, oh, but Ihave to now have the pressure of
I have to also do this, asopposed to feeling from a
husband.
You know, I do these things foryou, my wife, because I love
(15:22):
you, and that's it.
There is nothing else.
I never want to be intimate,and you'll signal that to me or
you'll share with me explicitlythat I'd love to meet you where
you are, but I'm gonna free upthe space from being a
pressurized environment whereyou, my wife, have to feel this
pressure of I have to give themthis, or else I have to do this
or there'll be consequences forme, and instead we want to shift
(15:43):
that entire space and entireexperience into.
This is a safe place for me,where I could be my authentic
self, including around the realmof physical intimacy, and so
when I want to share that, Ineed something in order to meet
my own threshold of what will beneeded to make this enjoyable,
to make this desirable.
(16:03):
So then I know that you're myspouse, with whom I could safely
share those things, but ifeverything is coming from a
place of just like a pressurethat I have to perform, or else
I'm essentially coerced intogoing in this direction, or a
husband just saying what's yourproblem, which is a fancy way of
signaling I don't understandyour world and I'm not even
gonna make efforts to understandyour world, all of these things
(16:24):
will energize terrible pain andsuffering within the
relationship space, and so Ithink in the next episode, we
might discuss even more in moredetail, what can be the
relational dynamic that we couldput in place that will promote,
nurture and support relationalintimacy, as opposed to just
create a transactional spacewithin the relationship when it
(16:48):
comes to physical intimacy,which is only going to feel,
leave people with resentment,frustration, disappointment,
pain and ultimately not wantingto be experiencing physical
intimacy that a relationshipcould have.
See you next time.
Thank you for joining us today.
For questions, comments, topicsyou'd like to hear more about,
or to try out our 24 weekrelationship challenge, email us
at relationshipreimagined atgmail.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.