Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to
dating, marriage and divorce
conversations where we analyze,navigate and troubleshoot all
stages of your romantic life.
I'm your host, igor Meistelman,a divorce attorney turn
relationship coach.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hello everybody,
welcome back to the show.
Today's topic is not gonna beeasy.
This is vulnerable, scary and,at the same time, something that
is just an incessant problem.
In my office, I interact withthis issue over and over and
over again, and so I decided todedicate a whole episode just to
explore this issue and reallybringing to focus for people,
(00:51):
especially spouses, partners andcommitted relationships,
because the more you canunderstand how this single issue
plagues the relationship, themore great work can be done in
healing the relationship,improving the relationship and
ultimately also healing andimproving ourselves, and the
topic that I'm referring to isself esteem.
Now, self esteem is, for sure, aphrase that has been so
(01:15):
overused that it's almost eludedin any significance and in any
value, and yet it is somethingthat is so prevalent in the
relational dynamics, especiallyin relational dynamics, and I
want to start by saying that Ithink part of the reason why
that is the case, why it is soprevalent in relational dynamics
(01:36):
, is because our sense of self,how much we value ourselves, how
important do we feel we are,our own significance, doesn't
really enter the scene until westart interacting with others.
This issue happens as when we'reyoung and we are dealt with as
recipients, beneficiaries ofgoodness, of kindness, of love
(01:57):
that we receive.
Hopefully that was that was ourexperiences with relatively
minimal at her adverse childhoodexperiences.
So there could just be animpression or feeling left that
oh, I'm doing really well, theworld around me cares about me,
cherishes me, sees significanceto me.
And it's really not until weenter high school and post high
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school years, and especiallyonce we enter committed
relationships, that our conceptof our self, in particular of
our self esteem, quickly beginsto be tested.
Because after all, what am.
I supposed to think about myselfwhen my spouse tells me you're
a loser?
Or they're not quite thatdirect, they say it's because of
(02:43):
me.
We are where we are implication, not because of you.
And all of a sudden I startquestioning well, what's my
contribution to our family?
What value am I bringing to therelationship?
After all, I'm constantly beingon the receiving end of
messages from somebody I thoughtwho loved me, cherished me,
(03:03):
respect me.
And yet I've been on thereceiving end of messages in
which I am told or I'm asked tobelieve I'm actually not so
significant, I'm not soimportant, my contribution is
relatively minimal.
What I bring to the table isnot all that important.
And then enters the scenequestions, many questions.
(03:23):
What does all this mean?
How do I now think about myself?
And it's very easy in thosemoments to begin to question,
and that's why I want tointroduce us to a first
definition that very much wasinspired by somebody named Pia
Melody, who's done a tremendousamount of wonderful work in the
realm of codependency and selfesteem as a general matter, and
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she says something along thefollowing lines Self esteem is
really about a unconditionalpositive regard for oneself.
Now let's really carefullyunpack those words Unconditional
, positive regard for oneself.
The reason has to be almostlike, encapsulated with
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unconditional that phrasebecause it is so important that
one, at some point, one way orthe other, one comes to terms
with the fact that the only wayto build a healthy, strong
presence within and without isby first establishing that I
carry certain value that issimply unconditional.
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There is no way that I will betainted, harmed, belittled,
reduced in significance by thewords of another human being, by
the actions of another humanbeing, and here's what's even
more important my own actions.
When I told a friend that I'llmeet them at five and I showed
up at five thirty, it is not areflection of my significance in
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the ultimate sense of things.
It's a reflection of an actionsuch as laziness or inability to
track time well, and thereforemaybe I need to work on being
prompt, being polite, beingtimely, but that's very
different than is this me andbeing able to make that
separation between my actionsand my essence becomes crucial
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because we live in a world wherewe are very much defined by our
actions.
We are very much dealing andliving in an environment in
which we are defined and we aretold by the world around us,
whether it's our bosses, ouremployers, all of these
environments where we spend apredominant time of our days as
adults, school, from ourteachers.
It's our actions that reflectour value.
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I do well in school, I getrewarded with a good grade.
I do well at my job, I getrewarded with more compensation
or some praise or accoladepraise or accolade that I
receive at my work and theproblem is that these
interactions with the worldaround us create a false
narrative that my value isdefined only through what I
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receive as an output of myactions, and it's so easy in
those settings to forget thatwho I really am is not my
actions or my shortcomings, theactions that I have not done
that I should have done.
Who I am is I am made in imageof God, I have a soul and
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therefore I have an inherentvalue that is irreplaceable,
cannot be tainted, cannot besolid, dirtied by anybody
outside of me, or even by my ownactions that look like failures
or shortcomings and actionsthat can be judged by others.
Other people tell me that whatI did was hurtful, what I did
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was disappointing, and that'sokay.
Another human being can stillinteract with us and feel those
types of things that they wishthey received from us something
we didn't give them, for example.
The mistake that happens iswhen we, as recipients of those
words or messages, on our own,then take the following step.
Oh, you are disappointed withwhat I did.
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It must mean there's somethingwrong with me, I am a failure, I
am a disappointment, and when Isay those things, I am
worthless.
When I say those things tomyself, what I'm really also
doing is I'm telling to myselfthat I am defined by my actions,
and now my significance and whoI am can be attacked and
(07:28):
damaged severely through thismechanism of shaming and
guilting myself by judgingmyself to be this limited
version of some action theydidn't pen out or express itself
the way I should have been inthe ideal version of myself.
When people live outside ofhealthy self-esteem, they're
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living in one or two of thoseextremes.
On the one side of the spectrum, it's never ending chase to
receive approval, affirmation,recognition from others, and
that's what we call theco-dependence.
And at the other side, there isinflated self-esteem, but it's
not real, and it turns veryquickly into hoariness, into
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pride, into narcissism in themost extreme, unhealthy sense,
where others actually becomeinsignificant.
Because I have taken on so muchsignificance that I started
losing track of significance ofothers, and so I went too far,
to the extreme of my self-esteemjourney, turning myself now not
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into a healthy human being whocan celebrate and cherish others
While also being celebrated andcherished, and instead, now
everything becomes I actuallycan be celebrating, cherished,
whereas everybody around medoesn't deserve it or not on my
level or not worthy of such anexperience that I am had.
And therefore, the moreself-esteem can come into focus
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and become a Significant part ofour journeys, the more it will
directly impact the quality ofour relationships.
Because if I'm now sitting withmy spouse and my spouse tells me
that he or she is disappointedwith me, I don't have to look at
it as I am a disappointment.
I can simply hear their wordsand say oh, I hear you, so would
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you want me to know?
Is that you really Disappointedwith me and with what happens?
Am I getting you?
And at the same time, whilesaying those words back to my
spouse and Mirroring them tomake sure that I'm staying with
them in their world, I can stillhold in my own world of thought
.
I'm not that person.
I have a value, I am importantand my spouse is simply sharing
me pain that my spouse is goingthrough, and I don't have to be
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defined, but my spouse's world,my spouse's world, does not
become the parameters of my owndefinition of who I am, and so
it's okay if I could hear myspouse and them sharing their
feelings and thoughts, while atthe same time I can also hear my
own voice of who I know I am,who I believe I am.
But I can become my potentials,my capabilities and they don't
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have to be defined by the otherperson in the conversation, in
the relationships.
This is almost like anever-ending ongoing Problem
that just plagues so manyrelationships.
When one of the spousesstruggles with self-esteem, the
moment, one spouse ispreoccupied with either seeking
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approvals, demanding okaystickers from their spouse, or
they claim to be so confident,so strong that they're
domineering over their spouse.
And so the the journey of arelationship will require that
one, both spouses Activate theirjourney and investigation of
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what their self-esteem is like.
Where are they currently intheir self-esteem journey, and
then to take that journey andsay what tweaks, adjustments,
compromises, wise Steps I couldtake and my spouse could take so
that we can continue buildingthis delicate, balanced
structure Ecosystem within whichwe as a couple can navigate
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carefully, know how Both of ourworlds can be respected, both of
our self-esteem can continue tobe nurtured.
So we could feel from the otherperson that, even when they
share disappointment or hurt orsomething happened it was
painful, they could still lookat it and say, oh, I understand
that, that it.
I don't have to be defined byyour words.
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You're simply sharing with mewhat is going on for you.
But the moment I feel any needto shut you down, that the
things you're sharing with meare not okay, that your share
doesn't have a place here.
So that means one of two thingseither that person is really
doing something wrong, andthat's what you have to demand,
sort of seizing that behavior,or I can ask myself a scary
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question, which is maybe there'ssomething wrong inside of me
that makes it so difficult forme to be willing to sit through
and to hear what actions goingon for my spouse.
and so the healthier self-esteem, the more endurance,
sustainability, sustainabilitythat human being develops,
because, after all, if I livewith unconditional positive
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regards and I constantlypractice it, so then really the
world just becomes one massiveopportunity, and so everything
that happens in it I can justreview it as it is.
It's an opportunity.
It's not something that's hereto take away, to make me suffer,
to torture me.
Everything that's happening inthe world is just there to give
me an opportunity to continue tolearn more about myself, learn
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more about the world around meand what would be the best
course of action for me in anygiven situation.
You know, very often in thisdiscussion I find what then
comes up for couples is thetopic of faith.
How does faith assume a role inthis conversation?
Well, if I do have a healthservice team and I believe that
I am worthy, I am deserving, Ihave a place in this world.
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God created a place for me andGod also created a unique me.
Nobody else could take on mymission statement.
No person will possess my setof characteristics, proclivities
, challenges, leanings.
I will be unique, as will you,and therefore what I have to
take on my own mission that isnot defined by others, that's
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not based on will this person behappy with me?
Will my mother or father beproud of me, or will my spouse
be happy with me?
Will my spouse be disappointed?
That process of recognizing andengaging the world only through
that unique lens of me, of myself-esteem, the more I can
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disconnect and disengage fromthe tensions and struggles that
pull a relational journey.
You know, same thing oftenplays out with kids and parents.
We get so quickly frustrated,disappointed, upset with the
kids and very rarely do peoplepause and say wait a second.
The only reason that I'mexperiencing this level of
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tension is really becausethere's also something else
going on for me and thereforeit's not that my child has
created my entire reality.
Yeah, maybe my child is doingsomething that's objectively
frustrating, that's objectivelydisrespectful, but at the same
time, it's what I'm experiencing, the story I'm telling myself,
about me, about the world aroundme.
People will share things like Ijust told God why did I have to
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get these difficult children?
Why did I have to get this setof challenges?
And the mistake in that type ofthought is that it stands on a
false premise that God didn'tthink through, when he gave me
the lot that he gave me, thatthe role that I had to assume in
the world wasn't uniquelytailor made for me, whereas a
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person who does live withself-esteem and knows that
everything life presents it'sjust one big opportunity.
Life is a never-endingopportunity, one after the next.
And now, when I look at theworld, even with all the
challenges and all theshortcomings, I can pause and
still say to myself oh, I knowexactly what the wisdom is here,
I know exactly what there is togain here, because if I am
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infinitely important, and so isthe world that God created, and
so are all the other people, sothen I can proceed from there.
And if somebody lashes out,screams at me, is critical, I
can always say to myself it'snot about me right now, it's
about the other person.
That person is simply justtrying to share something that
they're experiencing.
Either that experience ispainful or hard to deal with.
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And so the more that there iseffort put into come to that
really really hyper-focusedself-awareness state where I
could see oh really, a lot ofthis is coming from low
self-esteem.
I am chasing approvals, I amchasing okay stickers.
I need somebody to approve me,my spouse to tell me that what
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I'm doing is good, what I'mdoing is valuable.
I constantly need that type ofinput so then I can start
recognizing oh, there must bethen a struggle in me with
self-esteem if I have a need forsomebody to approve me.
Somebody told me that I'm goingto be okay, and so it's very
important to be able to pause,engage in that introspective
work and to try to understand doI live with an unconditional
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positive regard?
Do I live with unconditionalnegative regard no matter what
goes on in my life?
I could see the problem, Icould see what's going wrong.
Can I ever disconnect from thatnarrow mindset vantage point
point of view and recognizethere's so much more beauty in
the world.
Because I am beautiful, becauseI am special and therefore I
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have a place in the world, andtherefore the world will
introduce, prepare, put thingsin motion that make it possible
for my unique, special self toalso be expressed in the world.
And I knew with a more focusthat people can give to
self-esteem, to recognize howmuch it directly impacts their
relationships, and the more theycould go on the journey of
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healing their self-esteem tobring it to a positive range and
to become a source of strengthwithin a person, then
automatically the entirerelational experience will
transform as well.
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Thank you for joining
us today.
For questions, comments, topicsyou'd like to hear more about,
or to try out our 24 weekrelationship challenge, email us
at relationshipreimagined atgmail.