June 8, 2023 • 30 mins
Have you ever wondered how the strength of your spousal relationship impacts your parenting and family dynamics? In today's episode, we shed light on this crucial connection and introduce our upcoming Parent Empowerment program, a six-part series designed to fortify the foundation of your family through the relationship of the spouses. Discover the concept of Mirroring and its potential to enhance understanding and communication in your partnership, as well as the significance of spending meaningful time together as a family.
We also dive into the importance of understanding and empathy in all types of relationships, including parent-child and romantic bonds. Learn about the consequences of not being seen and understood, and how this can lead to destructive coping mechanisms. Uncover the three stages of effective communication: mirroring, validating, and empathy - and how you can apply them in your relationships. Lastly, we discuss how effectively communicating with your spouse translates to effective communication with your children, and how integrating Torah philosophy into your parenting approach can make all the difference. Join us on this journey to enhance your relationships and leave a lasting, positive legacy for your children.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Igor Meystelman (00:10):
Hello and welcome to dating, marriage and
divorce conversations where weanalyze, navigate and
troubleshoot all stages of yourromantic life.
I'm your host, igor Meistelman,a divorce attorney turned
relationship coach.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show.
This topic sometimes for peopleis surprising, get a little bit
of a staring eyes, confusion,even wondering is this really
true?
And the topic has to do withwhat is it like when we show up
(00:48):
to our children as spouses, notas parents?
So just give me a minute let meexplain what I mean by showing
up as spouses.
Well, the reality is that afamily system isn't just parents
and children.
Family system is parents,children's, and then the
relationship of those parents,that's right.
(01:11):
The relationship itself, themarriage of the spouses, husband
and wife, directly impacts bigportion of the upbringing of the
children and the influence thatthe parents energy, dynamic,
space the day hold for eachother directly flows downwards
(01:35):
towards the children and theimpact has on the children.
Igor Meystelman (01:38):
And I could personally testify to this.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
After practicing divorce law for over a decade, i
could tell you the impact I sawthat children endured, absorbed
, experienced as a result of theinteractions that they
witnessed between their parents,or the toxicity, negativity,
(02:02):
tension, resentment, all ofthese things, the way they
transferred onto the childrenand the deep impact that it made
on those children.
And that's why today I want tohone in on this nuance and
discuss how much it's not justhow we parent and all the good
techniques we could learn andall the wonderful books we could
(02:25):
read that are out there aboutparenting itself, that direct
interaction that exists betweenme and my child, but there is
another dimension altogetherthat operates in a much more
subtle way, almost lives in theshadows, and that is how do I
treat my spouse?
in private or in front of mychildren, and how that shapes my
(02:48):
child.
So let's begin.
I want to talk about a veryexciting upcoming program that I
will be running, a six partseries that I'm calling parent
empowerment, and the purpose ofit is to actually take a look at
chinuch, at upbringing ofchildren, through the lens of an
empowered relationship betweenspouses.
(03:10):
Because, after all, if wefortify the foundation, if we
fortify what the building restson, then the rest of the
building could safely stand andwithstand all sorts of storms of
life, but if the foundation isshaking well, the building has a
much higher chance ofcollapsing.
So we look at this beautifuledifice that we will call our
(03:33):
families And when we take thesebeautiful pictures and simple as
an event, and what meets theeye is disappearance of a
beautiful edifice, but only weas families know the deep
struggles, tensions,difficulties we endure behind
the scenes as we try to do theglue holding together these
(03:55):
seeming beautiful edifices.
And so I would like to just layout some of the principles,
concepts, ideas that I'm hopingto explore with families that
will be signing up to do thisparent empowerment series And to
give a flavor and introducesome of the concepts with a
little bit more in-depthunderstanding, and what's going
(04:20):
to be very unique and specialabout the series is not that
you'll be signing up to comeonce a week for two hours to
listen to me speak.
Actually, most of the time willbe spent the couples speaking
to each other And as I'm trainedas a certified Amago
facilitator using modality ofAmago therapy, the training, the
(04:42):
baseline of Amago is to empowerpeople to incorporate,
integrate these tools into theirown lives And therefore you're
not here to listen to me lectureand then we'll leave
empty-handed.
The goal of this experience isto help you acquire the tools
you need to be able to work onyour relationship, and so each
(05:04):
of the ideas that I will sharetoday really can be built around
your own skills and tools youwould like to achieve and,
ultimately, the transformationyou would like to go through in
order to be able to show upsuccessful spouses and then
parents.
So let's begin with mirroringWhat is mirroring.
So, besides basicallypracticing to be a parrot and
(05:27):
repeating the words you'rehearing from the other person,
mirroring is actually a deeplypowerful tool.
You see, we live in a worldwhere there is constant
misunderstandings,misperceptions and, ultimately,
this overall feeling are notbeing seen.
Now, i wish I was making thatup, but you actually heard my
(05:53):
almost three year old standingon the other side of the door,
like he does when he comes backfrom his play group, asking
begging.
Can you please come to youroffice?
So much for making time torecord a podcast in the middle
of a work day with the kidsaround.
He's such an angel.
He actually asked me from timeto time can I have a meeting
(06:15):
with you?
Because all the other kids havebeen telling him that when I'm
not available, it means I'm inmeetings.
So he's asked me can I have ameeting with you?
And so you imagine, right, italk about living.
What I preach making sure tomake time between sessions, the
evenings, to sit down and havequality time, like we all should
and we'll talk about today.
(06:36):
That's one of the key,important ingredients of being
able to raise healthy childrenis meaningful time together.
So let's continue withmirroring.
So, besides the fact that Ineed to be able to repeat the
words to you so I could be ableto tune to you so I could
actually know what you'retalking about and be able to
confirm that I'm keeping up withwhat you're sharing with me.
(06:59):
Besides, that part of mirroringis also to experience some basic
connection, that we arespeaking to each other same
language.
We're actually understandingwhat goes on in the other
person's world, rather than ourown interpretation of what we
think is going on in the otherperson's world, which is
something that we do veryfrequently.
(07:19):
Somebody talks to us.
We can't wait to already givefeedback.
The first thing that thatindicates to me when I sit down
with a couple or family, is thatI wasn't really listening to
you.
I was busy preparing in my mindmy response.
After all, it would be prettydifficult to actually listen to
you, take in your world and then, at the same time, already be
(07:43):
preparing my responses.
I suppose maybe some genius orhigh functioning intellectual
can do that, but an averageperson can only do one at a time
.
I can either listen to you or Ican listen to my own voice, and
I have to choose which one I'mlistening to at any given moment
.
Now, as we continue in theempowerment program, the next
(08:07):
thing we're going to do isduring parenting dialogue, and
the reason that's very importantis because, as it says in the
opening, the first foundationalconcept and principle we need to
have a really good handle onthis.
What is our goal?
Have we actually defined ourgoal?
Are we sort of sort ofstumbling and fumbling along in
hopes that we arrive somewheredecent, somewhere that we feel
(08:31):
some degree of accomplishment?
And there's no reason to livethat way.
We can pause, define where wewant to go, what is our
trajectory, and then we couldcreate for ourselves a roadmap.
What will our teamwork looklike?
How will we support eachother's spouses in our journey
as parents, once again leaningon their foundation?
(08:53):
the relationship foundation isa way to become healthy,
proactive, influential,impactful parents, and that's
what would happen in secondmodule.
Then the journey will take usinto a fascinating world of
biochemistry and neurobiology,and the reason we will go there
(09:14):
is because there's been somefascinating work that has been
done by a number of people, butone of the really big names It's
somebody named Daniel Siegel,who is a Harvard train
psychologist specializing inunderstanding the human
interactions, not only fromplace of emotion, but actually
(09:35):
understanding, on biochemicaland neurological levels, what
takes place to us.
It's something that we don'treally give much attention to,
but it actually is fascinating,not only just intellectually and
information-wise.
It's actually fascinatingbecause, if we actually have a
good handle on just basics ofhow humans work.
(09:57):
So let me just give you anexample.
What would happen if I sat downto have a conversation with you
and in the course of thatconversation, i bang on the
table?
I think a normal person isgoing to say they're going to
have some kind of a reaction,they're going to recoil, they're
going to retreat, they're goingto feel that there's a need to
go into some place of safety.
(10:19):
Well, if I need to retreat andgo into safety, that also means
that I'm not really available tolisten to you anymore.
Why is that happening?
That's because we have anervous system.
Our sympathetic nervous systemis designed to protect us.
It's designed to flag danger,to flag a lack of safety, and if
(10:44):
I perceive lack of safety, iperceive danger.
The first thing my system iswired to do to protect me is to
signal to me get away, get away,run to safety, go into the cave
.
Well, if I retrieve the into mysafety cave, then how much am I
available now to Macabre toreceive information you want to
(11:05):
share with me?
I am not so available anymore,and the opposite is also true.
When we set a tone that is fun,playful, energized with
enjoyment, creativity.
It's so much easier toexperience a learning
environment.
A learning experience, it'sbeing able to give over
(11:32):
information from one to theother.
Well, that means that thereceiving vessel has to have
capacity to hold the deposit ofwhat is being shared by the one
who is giving over.
And no wonder then, why.
There's just occurred to me,there's places in the Talmud
where there's discussion of howa rabbit, before starting his
(11:54):
class, would make jokes.
Why?
Because the jokes remove theparasympathetic nervous system.
They bring us back intoequilibrium and state of safety,
state of relaxation, and thencomplex, difficult concepts can
be explored, examined, discussed, and that is one of the
fundamental ideas not to bediscussed at length now, but
(12:17):
that often is lacking in theclassroom.
Classroom settings are notdesigned to build safety.
They're designed to builddiscipline, rules, barriers that
designed for we will catch youif you've done something wrong.
And the more that that energyis present, the more the child's
parasympathetic system is thereto guard them and protect them
(12:37):
from being receiving Right.
Whenever I would hear a parentshare with me the interaction
with the kids of any age, andwhen it sounds something like
this you never listen to me.
When are you going to listen tome.
They never stop to also askthemselves the following
question Why is it that my childis not listening to me?
Maybe there is a reason.
(12:58):
Maybe the way I present doesn'tcreate environment of safety.
Maybe the way I present causesmy child to say I'm being judged
right now, i'm about to getinto trouble, and then you know
what happens I'm going to be outof control as a child.
Then a system that God put intome, my nervous system, my
(13:22):
biochemical responses all kickin, telling me this is dangerous
, this is not safe, and I nowretreat.
I retreat, rather, i withdrawand I go into hiding And I'm no
longer available to listen toyou, to Macabre, to receive from
you, to take in really anythingyou want to share with me.
And the only way you're goingto bring me back, you guessed it
(13:45):
restoring safety.
That's why I think it's soimportant to restore safety.
But first we have to understandwhat we're looking at.
We will become a little bitlike doctors, as an x-ray
machine where we can seeourselves and each other, and by
practicing it as spouses, wecan then say, ooh, that's so
interesting.
(14:05):
I understand now why.
When I get healthy and puffy,when I get dysregulated, when I
get angry, upset, mad or, worse,reachful in front of my child,
i should have expected very muchpositive feedback or compliance
, because I am causing my childto become dysregulated from my
(14:28):
own dysregulated energy.
We communicate with each otherthrough these invisible bridges
Where we pass our energies tothem, they then pass it back to
us And then off.
We go into these never-endingspirals where we just live in
power struggles, in tensions, ina state of tension, a state of
(14:50):
disconnect.
And those are the places thatare so painful, both for us and
our children.
You know what?
As a child, it's doubly painfulbecause I also have nowhere to
go.
You are meant to be my support,you are meant to be my savior,
my rock, the thing that I canlean on, and you are no longer
available because you aredysregulated, mom, dad, and I am
(15:13):
left not to fend for myself.
How will I do that?
The best that I can.
Very often that involvesdeveloping coping strategies,
checking out technology, drugs,disconnecting from genieism,
from Yiddish kind.
I will talk a little bit why.
That's why one of the modulesis called parenting as an
(15:36):
opportunity to emulate Hashem'sMeadows, because the child is
constantly flagging how webehave as a way to identify and
define their own identity.
About that in a few moreminutes, but I think general
idea is being conveyed and so weunderstand.
(15:57):
These are the biochemicalreactions that are taking place
in our brain and in our bodieswhen we become dysregulated,
when we become upset, angry, sad, depressed, reachful.
All of that dysregulationtravels through an invisible
bridge into our children and thedysregulation in our children
travels back to us.
(16:20):
And as long as we are not payingattention to or we're not
identifying, what we see is justlike a ping-pong bouncing back
and forth but we're not able toreally take in and to see and
then really appreciate how wecan diagnose what's really
taking place, which is, one ofus became dysregulated that
caused the other one toexperience the same and then, as
(16:42):
a result, we now go off intothis cycle, power struggle and
anything of that sort that keepsus trapped, the place of
disconnect, the place of notreally seeing each other, not
really understanding each other.
And so the more we canunderstand and appreciate how
this works, the more we canunderstand how we can tap into
(17:04):
even our neurobiology and how wecan use the skills of a MAGO,
the real tools of communication,to neutralize, to perceive the
danger, to help restore thesafety and bring us back into a
safe place where we now couldagain rebuild the connection,
(17:25):
restore effective communicationwith each other, and we could do
all of this through firstempowering our relationship as a
couple.
The next module is validationand empathy, but this is deeply,
deeply important, important tocause for children until certain
ages and for some even intoadult lives.
This is in some ways even moresoothing, healing and helpful
(17:52):
than mirroring, except that wecannot jump to validation and
empathy without good mirroring.
And so the way the journeyreally goes is we first mirror
to establish that the two mintwere now connected, we have
arrived in each other's world,and then we're now able to do
something even deeper.
(18:12):
See, besides my need to be seenby you, to be acknowledged by
you and you could do that bymaking sure that you mirror me,
you're demonstrating to me,you're really trying to enter my
world but there's alsosomething else.
Very often I need from you, ineed to feel you really get it
what it's like to be me.
(18:33):
For some reason, we have thisvery deep need to be understood.
Kyrsy, somebody who writes alot of our personality types one
of the most famous personalitytests, it's called Myers-Briggs
personality test, wrote a bookcalled.
Please Understand Me.
There's some universal need.
We all have to feel understood,especially in romantic
(18:56):
relationships, and you know,with the next relationship where
there's a deep need to beunderstood parent-child
relationship Children have very,very deep need.
They didn't plan for it.
Achean made us this way, theydidn't calculate for it, they
didn't instill it in themselveson their own.
It is something they simplylive with.
(19:19):
And when they don't feel seenand understood, that's when we
do things like acting out, beingdestructive, being annoying to
siblings, being hurtful to theirparents and, worse, being
hurtful to themselves.
Because as a child, when Ididn't feel seen and then I
experienced pain, isolation,suffering, i didn't know how to
(19:42):
deal with such intense feelings.
So I needed to find a way toescape them.
So I create coping mechanisms.
Some might be productive.
Maybe.
I do a lot of sports, i obsesswith sports.
There are kids like that.
Some become destructive.
unfortunately, they turn totechnology, to inappropriate
things in technology, and theyturn to all other kinds of
(20:04):
things, substances, etc.
And that's why, once again, inorder to be able to do this
effectively with our kids, thefirst place we can do it is
effectively with our spouses.
Let's practice.
How can we be validating andempathizing?
So what does validation do?
that mirroring doesn'tMirroring.
I just convey to you that I seeyou.
(20:25):
I see you, not just like insome dismissive.
I got it, i got it.
That's not the conversation.
I really see you.
Thank you so much for sharingwith me what goes on for you.
But now watch the pivot withvalidation as it goes on our one
level higher.
It says you know, it makes somuch sense to me that this is
why you feel the way you do.
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It makes so much sense that itwill upset you.
When I did xyz, you know youmake so much sense that when I
didn't show up on time, it leftyou really confused or hurt.
You make sense.
Now notice something veryimportant.
I don't have to agree with you.
I don't have to give you stampof approval.
(21:06):
I'm not saying that whateveryou're telling me is the truth
and I now have to abide by it.
What I am saying is that Iaccept that it's the truth for
you, because it's one thing forme to say.
What I'm hearing you say isyou're upset, what happens?
But you're gonna be leftwondering.
He must still think I'm crazy,even though he's mirroring back
(21:28):
to me.
He can do a really good job asa parrot.
But once I say you know, itmakes so much sense that this is
how you feel Because thishappened.
Is that what it's like for you?
That sets a totally differentenergy into that invisible space
, that invisible bridge thatwe're building, that holds us up
(21:49):
together in our relationship.
An empathy is that ultimatearrival that we sometimes are
able to experience, and that isnot only do I see you, not only
do I want you to know that youmake sense for being you.
I actually feel what you feel.
I really could now sense justhow painful that was for you.
(22:13):
The new cry, i cry Right.
The famous story, robahariLevine walking into the hospital
and telling the doctor when hiswife hurt herself, he said our
leg hurts.
We can hit that level of empathybecause that is ability that
was granted to us as humanbeings.
It's a divinely inspiredability that I can be with you
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where you are, just like Hashemtells us, i'm with you in your
struggles.
We also can be with others.
What will it take?
leaving our own world, puttingaside our own egos, our own
agendas, and just leaving for afew minutes the safety and
comfort of our own world andgoing into leaving and traveling
(23:01):
over that invisible bridge intothe world of the other.
We start with our spouses andhopefully then we can do it even
for our children.
We can see that for children,this is oxygen.
I cannot stress this enoughWhat the child experiences when
you look them deeply in the eyes, when you slow down and instead
(23:22):
of offering our solutions andour advice as the wiser, older
parent with experience and wecould just sit with our child
and say what I'm hearing you say, is it's really hard for you
when that kid bullied you.
Is that what it was like foryou?
I know it makes so much sensethat it upsets you so much when
this kid bullied you.
Wow, this must be so painfulfor you.
(23:45):
Is this what it's like for you?
If you notice, i literally justwalked through all three stages
.
I mirrored.
I validated, and then I just didmy best to arrive in empathy.
The next module.
This is fascinating.
This is now trying to mergetogether all of the work until
(24:07):
then into now integrating Torahphilosophy, which all begins
with why is there even thisconcept of children And why is
there a concept of parents?
Why does this thing exist?
What is it giving usopportunity to do?
Couldn't we just find thesethings in a cabbage on a tree?
(24:32):
Why do we have to go throughthese periods of bringing a
child into a world and thenexperiencing these relationships
and the challenges andstruggles and difficulties that
come with these relationships?
Well, i believe that one of thereasons is because God wanted to
give us an opportunity toactually practice and live out
(24:57):
What he commands us to do, whichis to emulate his ways.
And God manifested himself inthis world through his 13
attributes of mercy and, Asfamously the Rabbi's teachers,
those attributes were not justto be on the display for us to
say, oh, nice ideals, not for me, but nice ideals.
(25:18):
No, they were put into thisworld and God revealed them to
us to tell us these are thethings that are within your
reach, these are the things thatI'm gonna put in you in a state
of potential and I want you tonow work on actualizing them.
And Not only that.
I'm gonna give you children whoare gonna be like a honing
(25:39):
device.
They are going to almost actlike your mirror.
Obviously, this point I'mtalking outside of Khusvashalom
a child with special needs orchild that's struggling.
I'm just talking about when ourkids do funny, tough, difficult
, annoying things.
They're not doing them to driveus crazy.
They're doing them to give usan opportunity.
(26:00):
God is channeling opportunitiesthrough our children to help us
live in the laboratory ofbecoming light.
Him.
He didn't just give us theseattributes to read about, to
study in a, a educationalsetting, in a library.
(26:21):
He gave him.
He gave us these things to live.
And the way he also blessed uswith opportunity Was to do it
with our children, and certainlywith our spouses, and so to go
through the process ofunderstanding Even some of the
most basic concepts that I wantmy child to be graceful, i want
(26:42):
my child to be kind, i want mychild to have a certain sense of
mercy, certain sense of Modesty.
These things aren't gonna justsprout on their own.
They're gonna come to themthrough osmosis of watching us
live those qualities, and themore we can manifest in those
(27:04):
ways, the more they will simplyinhale them from us, and that's
what earlier I refer to them asoxygen, and that's what makes
this job almost doubly difficult.
Not only we trying to teach ourchildren and educate and train
them in these things, but alsoin order to do that, we have to
go through this difficultjourney of acquiring them,
(27:27):
practicing them and thenDemonstrating them by modeling.
Becoming merciful is notsomething that I could teach a
child by explaining the concept.
The way to teach a child tobecome merciful is when the
child sees me being Merciful.
This is very, very important.
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Me being modest is how thechild will want to become modest
, not me telling them to bemodest.
It's not my actions thatinfluence the child in this
realm.
It's how I Exist thatinfluences the child in this
(28:10):
realm.
We'll know this kind of familiarthing right don't do as I say,
don't do as I do.
The problem is it doesn't work.
It's exact opposite.
Children do as we do, not aswhat we say, and that's why it's
so important that the more wecan become godly human beings,
(28:33):
the more we will simply, by asMoses, be able to teach our
children that there are plentyof things we need to teach our
children profession, torah.
There's plenty of informationand data points that need to be
transferred from us to the nextgeneration.
If there's something that couldbe taken off our plate and that
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could be transferred simply bybeing, isn't that a nice gift?
That's one less thing on myplate.
The trick is I first.
I first have to become thattype of a being, and The place
where I can practice is throughmy relationship with my spouse.
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And then, finally, as we willmove through all these phases,
we of course have to leave roomTo continue the real journey
that matters, and that's thejourney of Transformation.
This is not a get-together fora classroom experience.
This is a get-together for youto feel.
By the end, you've become insome way a different person.
(29:35):
We all become in some waydifferent than when we started,
and that's what's gonna be soimportant.
Take time to reflect, to share,and I strongly believe because
I've seen that over and overagain That's something about a
group environment.
Environment also gives usphysical, it gives us strength,
it gives us encouragement, itgives us a sense of belonging
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and part of a community.
I'm with people of my tribe,people on the journey just like
me And I don't have to be aloneand I could reach for these
other people.
With home, i can be part ofthis community to continue to
work on myself, work on mymarriage or my relationship, so
that, ultimately, i can pass onthe best legacy possible To the
(30:19):
next generation, which is mychildren.
Thank you for joining today.
Igor Meystelman (30:22):
Thank you for joining us today.
For questions, comments, topicsYou'd like to hear more about,
or to try out a 24 weekrelationship challenge, email us
at relationship Reimagined atGmail.
Hello and welcome to dating, marriage and
divorce conversations where weanalyze, navigate and
troubleshoot all stages of yourromantic life.
I'm your host, igor Meistelman,a divorce attorney turned
relationship coach.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show.
This topic sometimes for peopleis surprising, get a little bit
of a staring eyes, confusion,even wondering is this really
true?
And the topic has to do withwhat is it like when we show up
(00:48):
to our children as spouses, notas parents?
So just give me a minute let meexplain what I mean by showing
up as spouses.
Well, the reality is that afamily system isn't just parents
and children.
Family system is parents,children's, and then the
relationship of those parents,that's right.
(01:11):
The relationship itself, themarriage of the spouses, husband
and wife, directly impacts bigportion of the upbringing of the
children and the influence thatthe parents energy, dynamic,
space the day hold for eachother directly flows downwards
(01:35):
towards the children and theimpact has on the children.
Igor Meystelman (01:38):
And I could personally testify to this.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
After practicing divorce law for over a decade, i
could tell you the impact I sawthat children endured, absorbed
, experienced as a result of theinteractions that they
witnessed between their parents,or the toxicity, negativity,
(02:02):
tension, resentment, all ofthese things, the way they
transferred onto the childrenand the deep impact that it made
on those children.
And that's why today I want tohone in on this nuance and
discuss how much it's not justhow we parent and all the good
techniques we could learn andall the wonderful books we could
(02:25):
read that are out there aboutparenting itself, that direct
interaction that exists betweenme and my child, but there is
another dimension altogetherthat operates in a much more
subtle way, almost lives in theshadows, and that is how do I
treat my spouse?
in private or in front of mychildren, and how that shapes my
(02:48):
child.
So let's begin.
I want to talk about a veryexciting upcoming program that I
will be running, a six partseries that I'm calling parent
empowerment, and the purpose ofit is to actually take a look at
chinuch, at upbringing ofchildren, through the lens of an
empowered relationship betweenspouses.
(03:10):
Because, after all, if wefortify the foundation, if we
fortify what the building restson, then the rest of the
building could safely stand andwithstand all sorts of storms of
life, but if the foundation isshaking well, the building has a
much higher chance ofcollapsing.
So we look at this beautifuledifice that we will call our
(03:33):
families And when we take thesebeautiful pictures and simple as
an event, and what meets theeye is disappearance of a
beautiful edifice, but only weas families know the deep
struggles, tensions,difficulties we endure behind
the scenes as we try to do theglue holding together these
(03:55):
seeming beautiful edifices.
And so I would like to just layout some of the principles,
concepts, ideas that I'm hopingto explore with families that
will be signing up to do thisparent empowerment series And to
give a flavor and introducesome of the concepts with a
little bit more in-depthunderstanding, and what's going
(04:20):
to be very unique and specialabout the series is not that
you'll be signing up to comeonce a week for two hours to
listen to me speak.
Actually, most of the time willbe spent the couples speaking
to each other And as I'm trainedas a certified Amago
facilitator using modality ofAmago therapy, the training, the
(04:42):
baseline of Amago is to empowerpeople to incorporate,
integrate these tools into theirown lives And therefore you're
not here to listen to me lectureand then we'll leave
empty-handed.
The goal of this experience isto help you acquire the tools
you need to be able to work onyour relationship, and so each
(05:04):
of the ideas that I will sharetoday really can be built around
your own skills and tools youwould like to achieve and,
ultimately, the transformationyou would like to go through in
order to be able to show upsuccessful spouses and then
parents.
So let's begin with mirroringWhat is mirroring.
So, besides basicallypracticing to be a parrot and
(05:27):
repeating the words you'rehearing from the other person,
mirroring is actually a deeplypowerful tool.
You see, we live in a worldwhere there is constant
misunderstandings,misperceptions and, ultimately,
this overall feeling are notbeing seen.
Now, i wish I was making thatup, but you actually heard my
(05:53):
almost three year old standingon the other side of the door,
like he does when he comes backfrom his play group, asking
begging.
Can you please come to youroffice?
So much for making time torecord a podcast in the middle
of a work day with the kidsaround.
He's such an angel.
He actually asked me from timeto time can I have a meeting
(06:15):
with you?
Because all the other kids havebeen telling him that when I'm
not available, it means I'm inmeetings.
So he's asked me can I have ameeting with you?
And so you imagine, right, italk about living.
What I preach making sure tomake time between sessions, the
evenings, to sit down and havequality time, like we all should
and we'll talk about today.
(06:36):
That's one of the key,important ingredients of being
able to raise healthy childrenis meaningful time together.
So let's continue withmirroring.
So, besides the fact that Ineed to be able to repeat the
words to you so I could be ableto tune to you so I could
actually know what you'retalking about and be able to
confirm that I'm keeping up withwhat you're sharing with me.
(06:59):
Besides, that part of mirroringis also to experience some basic
connection, that we arespeaking to each other same
language.
We're actually understandingwhat goes on in the other
person's world, rather than ourown interpretation of what we
think is going on in the otherperson's world, which is
something that we do veryfrequently.
(07:19):
Somebody talks to us.
We can't wait to already givefeedback.
The first thing that thatindicates to me when I sit down
with a couple or family, is thatI wasn't really listening to
you.
I was busy preparing in my mindmy response.
After all, it would be prettydifficult to actually listen to
you, take in your world and then, at the same time, already be
(07:43):
preparing my responses.
I suppose maybe some genius orhigh functioning intellectual
can do that, but an averageperson can only do one at a time
.
I can either listen to you or Ican listen to my own voice, and
I have to choose which one I'mlistening to at any given moment
.
Now, as we continue in theempowerment program, the next
(08:07):
thing we're going to do isduring parenting dialogue, and
the reason that's very importantis because, as it says in the
opening, the first foundationalconcept and principle we need to
have a really good handle onthis.
What is our goal?
Have we actually defined ourgoal?
Are we sort of sort ofstumbling and fumbling along in
hopes that we arrive somewheredecent, somewhere that we feel
(08:31):
some degree of accomplishment?
And there's no reason to livethat way.
We can pause, define where wewant to go, what is our
trajectory, and then we couldcreate for ourselves a roadmap.
What will our teamwork looklike?
How will we support eachother's spouses in our journey
as parents, once again leaningon their foundation?
(08:53):
the relationship foundation isa way to become healthy,
proactive, influential,impactful parents, and that's
what would happen in secondmodule.
Then the journey will take usinto a fascinating world of
biochemistry and neurobiology,and the reason we will go there
(09:14):
is because there's been somefascinating work that has been
done by a number of people, butone of the really big names It's
somebody named Daniel Siegel,who is a Harvard train
psychologist specializing inunderstanding the human
interactions, not only fromplace of emotion, but actually
(09:35):
understanding, on biochemicaland neurological levels, what
takes place to us.
It's something that we don'treally give much attention to,
but it actually is fascinating,not only just intellectually and
information-wise.
It's actually fascinatingbecause, if we actually have a
good handle on just basics ofhow humans work.
(09:57):
So let me just give you anexample.
What would happen if I sat downto have a conversation with you
and in the course of thatconversation, i bang on the
table?
I think a normal person isgoing to say they're going to
have some kind of a reaction,they're going to recoil, they're
going to retreat, they're goingto feel that there's a need to
go into some place of safety.
(10:19):
Well, if I need to retreat andgo into safety, that also means
that I'm not really available tolisten to you anymore.
Why is that happening?
That's because we have anervous system.
Our sympathetic nervous systemis designed to protect us.
It's designed to flag danger,to flag a lack of safety, and if
(10:44):
I perceive lack of safety, iperceive danger.
The first thing my system iswired to do to protect me is to
signal to me get away, get away,run to safety, go into the cave
.
Well, if I retrieve the into mysafety cave, then how much am I
available now to Macabre toreceive information you want to
(11:05):
share with me?
I am not so available anymore,and the opposite is also true.
When we set a tone that is fun,playful, energized with
enjoyment, creativity.
It's so much easier toexperience a learning
environment.
A learning experience, it'sbeing able to give over
(11:32):
information from one to theother.
Well, that means that thereceiving vessel has to have
capacity to hold the deposit ofwhat is being shared by the one
who is giving over.
And no wonder then, why.
There's just occurred to me,there's places in the Talmud
where there's discussion of howa rabbit, before starting his
(11:54):
class, would make jokes.
Why?
Because the jokes remove theparasympathetic nervous system.
They bring us back intoequilibrium and state of safety,
state of relaxation, and thencomplex, difficult concepts can
be explored, examined, discussed, and that is one of the
fundamental ideas not to bediscussed at length now, but
(12:17):
that often is lacking in theclassroom.
Classroom settings are notdesigned to build safety.
They're designed to builddiscipline, rules, barriers that
designed for we will catch youif you've done something wrong.
And the more that that energyis present, the more the child's
parasympathetic system is thereto guard them and protect them
(12:37):
from being receiving Right.
Whenever I would hear a parentshare with me the interaction
with the kids of any age, andwhen it sounds something like
this you never listen to me.
When are you going to listen tome.
They never stop to also askthemselves the following
question Why is it that my childis not listening to me?
Maybe there is a reason.
(12:58):
Maybe the way I present doesn'tcreate environment of safety.
Maybe the way I present causesmy child to say I'm being judged
right now, i'm about to getinto trouble, and then you know
what happens I'm going to be outof control as a child.
Then a system that God put intome, my nervous system, my
(13:22):
biochemical responses all kickin, telling me this is dangerous
, this is not safe, and I nowretreat.
I retreat, rather, i withdrawand I go into hiding And I'm no
longer available to listen toyou, to Macabre, to receive from
you, to take in really anythingyou want to share with me.
And the only way you're goingto bring me back, you guessed it
(13:45):
restoring safety.
That's why I think it's soimportant to restore safety.
But first we have to understandwhat we're looking at.
We will become a little bitlike doctors, as an x-ray
machine where we can seeourselves and each other, and by
practicing it as spouses, wecan then say, ooh, that's so
interesting.
(14:05):
I understand now why.
When I get healthy and puffy,when I get dysregulated, when I
get angry, upset, mad or, worse,reachful in front of my child,
i should have expected very muchpositive feedback or compliance
, because I am causing my childto become dysregulated from my
(14:28):
own dysregulated energy.
We communicate with each otherthrough these invisible bridges
Where we pass our energies tothem, they then pass it back to
us And then off.
We go into these never-endingspirals where we just live in
power struggles, in tensions, ina state of tension, a state of
(14:50):
disconnect.
And those are the places thatare so painful, both for us and
our children.
You know what?
As a child, it's doubly painfulbecause I also have nowhere to
go.
You are meant to be my support,you are meant to be my savior,
my rock, the thing that I canlean on, and you are no longer
available because you aredysregulated, mom, dad, and I am
(15:13):
left not to fend for myself.
How will I do that?
The best that I can.
Very often that involvesdeveloping coping strategies,
checking out technology, drugs,disconnecting from genieism,
from Yiddish kind.
I will talk a little bit why.
That's why one of the modulesis called parenting as an
(15:36):
opportunity to emulate Hashem'sMeadows, because the child is
constantly flagging how webehave as a way to identify and
define their own identity.
About that in a few moreminutes, but I think general
idea is being conveyed and so weunderstand.
(15:57):
These are the biochemicalreactions that are taking place
in our brain and in our bodieswhen we become dysregulated,
when we become upset, angry, sad, depressed, reachful.
All of that dysregulationtravels through an invisible
bridge into our children and thedysregulation in our children
travels back to us.
(16:20):
And as long as we are not payingattention to or we're not
identifying, what we see is justlike a ping-pong bouncing back
and forth but we're not able toreally take in and to see and
then really appreciate how wecan diagnose what's really
taking place, which is, one ofus became dysregulated that
caused the other one toexperience the same and then, as
(16:42):
a result, we now go off intothis cycle, power struggle and
anything of that sort that keepsus trapped, the place of
disconnect, the place of notreally seeing each other, not
really understanding each other.
And so the more we canunderstand and appreciate how
this works, the more we canunderstand how we can tap into
(17:04):
even our neurobiology and how wecan use the skills of a MAGO,
the real tools of communication,to neutralize, to perceive the
danger, to help restore thesafety and bring us back into a
safe place where we now couldagain rebuild the connection,
(17:25):
restore effective communicationwith each other, and we could do
all of this through firstempowering our relationship as a
couple.
The next module is validationand empathy, but this is deeply,
deeply important, important tocause for children until certain
ages and for some even intoadult lives.
This is in some ways even moresoothing, healing and helpful
(17:52):
than mirroring, except that wecannot jump to validation and
empathy without good mirroring.
And so the way the journeyreally goes is we first mirror
to establish that the two mintwere now connected, we have
arrived in each other's world,and then we're now able to do
something even deeper.
(18:12):
See, besides my need to be seenby you, to be acknowledged by
you and you could do that bymaking sure that you mirror me,
you're demonstrating to me,you're really trying to enter my
world but there's alsosomething else.
Very often I need from you, ineed to feel you really get it
what it's like to be me.
(18:33):
For some reason, we have thisvery deep need to be understood.
Kyrsy, somebody who writes alot of our personality types one
of the most famous personalitytests, it's called Myers-Briggs
personality test, wrote a bookcalled.
Please Understand Me.
There's some universal need.
We all have to feel understood,especially in romantic
(18:56):
relationships, and you know,with the next relationship where
there's a deep need to beunderstood parent-child
relationship Children have very,very deep need.
They didn't plan for it.
Achean made us this way, theydidn't calculate for it, they
didn't instill it in themselveson their own.
It is something they simplylive with.
(19:19):
And when they don't feel seenand understood, that's when we
do things like acting out, beingdestructive, being annoying to
siblings, being hurtful to theirparents and, worse, being
hurtful to themselves.
Because as a child, when Ididn't feel seen and then I
experienced pain, isolation,suffering, i didn't know how to
(19:42):
deal with such intense feelings.
So I needed to find a way toescape them.
So I create coping mechanisms.
Some might be productive.
Maybe.
I do a lot of sports, i obsesswith sports.
There are kids like that.
Some become destructive.
unfortunately, they turn totechnology, to inappropriate
things in technology, and theyturn to all other kinds of
(20:04):
things, substances, etc.
And that's why, once again, inorder to be able to do this
effectively with our kids, thefirst place we can do it is
effectively with our spouses.
Let's practice.
How can we be validating andempathizing?
So what does validation do?
that mirroring doesn'tMirroring.
I just convey to you that I seeyou.
(20:25):
I see you, not just like insome dismissive.
I got it, i got it.
That's not the conversation.
I really see you.
Thank you so much for sharingwith me what goes on for you.
But now watch the pivot withvalidation as it goes on our one
level higher.
It says you know, it makes somuch sense to me that this is
why you feel the way you do.
(20:46):
It makes so much sense that itwill upset you.
When I did xyz, you know youmake so much sense that when I
didn't show up on time, it leftyou really confused or hurt.
You make sense.
Now notice something veryimportant.
I don't have to agree with you.
I don't have to give you stampof approval.
(21:06):
I'm not saying that whateveryou're telling me is the truth
and I now have to abide by it.
What I am saying is that Iaccept that it's the truth for
you, because it's one thing forme to say.
What I'm hearing you say isyou're upset, what happens?
But you're gonna be leftwondering.
He must still think I'm crazy,even though he's mirroring back
(21:28):
to me.
He can do a really good job asa parrot.
But once I say you know, itmakes so much sense that this is
how you feel Because thishappened.
Is that what it's like for you?
That sets a totally differentenergy into that invisible space
, that invisible bridge thatwe're building, that holds us up
(21:49):
together in our relationship.
An empathy is that ultimatearrival that we sometimes are
able to experience, and that isnot only do I see you, not only
do I want you to know that youmake sense for being you.
I actually feel what you feel.
I really could now sense justhow painful that was for you.
(22:13):
The new cry, i cry Right.
The famous story, robahariLevine walking into the hospital
and telling the doctor when hiswife hurt herself, he said our
leg hurts.
We can hit that level of empathybecause that is ability that
was granted to us as humanbeings.
It's a divinely inspiredability that I can be with you
(22:37):
where you are, just like Hashemtells us, i'm with you in your
struggles.
We also can be with others.
What will it take?
leaving our own world, puttingaside our own egos, our own
agendas, and just leaving for afew minutes the safety and
comfort of our own world andgoing into leaving and traveling
(23:01):
over that invisible bridge intothe world of the other.
We start with our spouses andhopefully then we can do it even
for our children.
We can see that for children,this is oxygen.
I cannot stress this enoughWhat the child experiences when
you look them deeply in the eyes, when you slow down and instead
(23:22):
of offering our solutions andour advice as the wiser, older
parent with experience and wecould just sit with our child
and say what I'm hearing you say, is it's really hard for you
when that kid bullied you.
Is that what it was like foryou?
I know it makes so much sensethat it upsets you so much when
this kid bullied you.
Wow, this must be so painfulfor you.
(23:45):
Is this what it's like for you?
If you notice, i literally justwalked through all three stages
.
I mirrored.
I validated, and then I just didmy best to arrive in empathy.
The next module.
This is fascinating.
This is now trying to mergetogether all of the work until
(24:07):
then into now integrating Torahphilosophy, which all begins
with why is there even thisconcept of children And why is
there a concept of parents?
Why does this thing exist?
What is it giving usopportunity to do?
Couldn't we just find thesethings in a cabbage on a tree?
(24:32):
Why do we have to go throughthese periods of bringing a
child into a world and thenexperiencing these relationships
and the challenges andstruggles and difficulties that
come with these relationships?
Well, i believe that one of thereasons is because God wanted to
give us an opportunity toactually practice and live out
(24:57):
What he commands us to do, whichis to emulate his ways.
And God manifested himself inthis world through his 13
attributes of mercy and, Asfamously the Rabbi's teachers,
those attributes were not justto be on the display for us to
say, oh, nice ideals, not for me, but nice ideals.
(25:18):
No, they were put into thisworld and God revealed them to
us to tell us these are thethings that are within your
reach, these are the things thatI'm gonna put in you in a state
of potential and I want you tonow work on actualizing them.
And Not only that.
I'm gonna give you children whoare gonna be like a honing
(25:39):
device.
They are going to almost actlike your mirror.
Obviously, this point I'mtalking outside of Khusvashalom
a child with special needs orchild that's struggling.
I'm just talking about when ourkids do funny, tough, difficult
, annoying things.
They're not doing them to driveus crazy.
They're doing them to give usan opportunity.
(26:00):
God is channeling opportunitiesthrough our children to help us
live in the laboratory ofbecoming light.
Him.
He didn't just give us theseattributes to read about, to
study in a, a educationalsetting, in a library.
(26:21):
He gave him.
He gave us these things to live.
And the way he also blessed uswith opportunity Was to do it
with our children, and certainlywith our spouses, and so to go
through the process ofunderstanding Even some of the
most basic concepts that I wantmy child to be graceful, i want
(26:42):
my child to be kind, i want mychild to have a certain sense of
mercy, certain sense of Modesty.
These things aren't gonna justsprout on their own.
They're gonna come to themthrough osmosis of watching us
live those qualities, and themore we can manifest in those
(27:04):
ways, the more they will simplyinhale them from us, and that's
what earlier I refer to them asoxygen, and that's what makes
this job almost doubly difficult.
Not only we trying to teach ourchildren and educate and train
them in these things, but alsoin order to do that, we have to
go through this difficultjourney of acquiring them,
(27:27):
practicing them and thenDemonstrating them by modeling.
Becoming merciful is notsomething that I could teach a
child by explaining the concept.
The way to teach a child tobecome merciful is when the
child sees me being Merciful.
This is very, very important.
(27:49):
Me being modest is how thechild will want to become modest
, not me telling them to bemodest.
It's not my actions thatinfluence the child in this
realm.
It's how I Exist thatinfluences the child in this
(28:10):
realm.
We'll know this kind of familiarthing right don't do as I say,
don't do as I do.
The problem is it doesn't work.
It's exact opposite.
Children do as we do, not aswhat we say, and that's why it's
so important that the more wecan become godly human beings,
(28:33):
the more we will simply, by asMoses, be able to teach our
children that there are plentyof things we need to teach our
children profession, torah.
There's plenty of informationand data points that need to be
transferred from us to the nextgeneration.
If there's something that couldbe taken off our plate and that
(28:54):
could be transferred simply bybeing, isn't that a nice gift?
That's one less thing on myplate.
The trick is I first.
I first have to become thattype of a being, and The place
where I can practice is throughmy relationship with my spouse.
(29:14):
And then, finally, as we willmove through all these phases,
we of course have to leave roomTo continue the real journey
that matters, and that's thejourney of Transformation.
This is not a get-together fora classroom experience.
This is a get-together for youto feel.
By the end, you've become insome way a different person.
(29:35):
We all become in some waydifferent than when we started,
and that's what's gonna be soimportant.
Take time to reflect, to share,and I strongly believe because
I've seen that over and overagain That's something about a
group environment.
Environment also gives usphysical, it gives us strength,
it gives us encouragement, itgives us a sense of belonging
(29:56):
and part of a community.
I'm with people of my tribe,people on the journey just like
me And I don't have to be aloneand I could reach for these
other people.
With home, i can be part ofthis community to continue to
work on myself, work on mymarriage or my relationship, so
that, ultimately, i can pass onthe best legacy possible To the
(30:19):
next generation, which is mychildren.
Thank you for joining today.
Igor Meystelman (30:22):
Thank you for joining us today.
For questions, comments, topicsYou'd like to hear more about,
or to try out a 24 weekrelationship challenge, email us
at relationship Reimagined atGmail.
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