"Batman Forever" Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to DC on Screen.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome into DC on Screen. I'm your host, David C.
Robertson this of course, Jason Goss, Hello, and uh. With
the unfortunate passing of Val Kilmer several weeks ago, we
planned on doing a Batman Forever review. It seemed like
a good time. It is the only theatrical live action
Batman feature we haven't properly reviewed save for the nineteen

(00:25):
sixty six film with Adam West, So I'm looking forward
to it. That is it?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Really?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I guess Okay, I guess so okay that happened. Yeah,
I lost track of which ones. Ok Yeah, glad we
got around to this one.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
We just needed this one in Adam West. That's it, Okay.
I'm very curious to see to get your thoughts because
we did Batman and Robin with Squadcast, you know, and
we somewhat recently leading up to the Flash did Batman
and Batman Returns. So this was it and is one

(00:58):
of those where it's like I have very fond memories
of this movie, like there is a middle ground between
the eighty nine ninety two stuff and ninety seven, Like
you can see it going towards Batman and Robin Oh,
you can see it heading towards.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Toward it, yeah, not not flirting with it, like.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Right actively recording it, but also like, yeah, it wants
to be something different. It wants to be something darker
as well, and you can also see that.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
At moments at moments, but it's it's a it's a
bifurcated film, I guess in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Which I love that you use that term, because I
love that Jim Carrey's Riddler.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Keeps every last time keeps calling two.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Version, calling two face. Oh bifurcated one. Yeah. But yeah,
for anyone gearing up to get offended over us disrespecting
the late Val Kilmer or Joel Schumacher, uh, y'all could
just pimp onto another podcast who will more reverentially suck
their dicks. We're gonna be us. We're gonna review the
film as fairly as we can. I did do the research.

(02:06):
I did do the research. I have some trivia. I
don't think we'll be saying anything worse than what Val
Kilmer and Joel Schumacher themselves had to say.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, I have no personal qualms without regret.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
And I'll say this like I still think Valkilmer is
the best part of this movie.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, I think he did fine. Well, I say
that I do have a note on that, but he
did fine.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean, well, I really love what Jim Carrey did,
not because I wanted to see this version of the Riddler,
but because I just liked Jim Carrey. And I have
fun memories of Jim Carrey from when I was what eleven,
ten something whatever?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, yeah, what year was this, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Twelve, I don't know, but it was nineteen ninety five,
whatever the hell that means for me.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
It was still well in the aftermath of that time
where Jim Carrey just owned every young like every kid
a die age was completely in the poem of sand
watching whatever movie he did.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, I remember several quotes of this movie very funly
their top of mind for me even at forty one,
and I mean most of them are Jim Carrey quotes.
I was obsessed with this movie when I was a kid.
It hit ninety five, I was at that age I
was still laughing over everything Jim Carrey did. But you know,
I had stopped getting letters from my penis. The penis

(03:21):
had started making visits I was rewinding some Chase Meridian
scenes on my VHS copy, y'all.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, another heavy note in minus it's a thirsty as movie.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Also, can I say, like when I was a kid,
I absolutely knew when I was watching this movie it
is not as good as Batman, the animated series or
the comics. Like I was in there going like, oh,
they should have done this Redler backstory instead. Oh they
should have they should have done John Glovers Redler instead. Yeah.
But I was also like, yeah, but they're the clueless studio.

(03:52):
They don't know. There was strong ass stuff in this movie.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
There really is. I have several scenes picked out where
I'm like, man, there was there's a lot to this.
But I mean, the overall sense of it for me
is like I can only kind of watch the movie academically.
It's it's been thirty years and it and it looks well,
that's I say, it looks it. It's very much a
film that was thirty years ago, and it just drags
you in and out of believability at Whiplash needs so

(04:16):
you can have fun with it for a few minutes,
and then you were very acutely aware that you're watching
an old movie. Very very quickly after. Yeah, it's like
that's basically the experience I'll be speaking from.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, I watched this movie on VHS force like so
many times, Like I wore my tape out, like and
I still have it. If you were coming to my
house or pay attention to my VHS section, you would
see a very very very worn Batman Forever case. Like
it's like the top of the case is just like

(04:47):
shredded and falling off.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
And that's from Chase the shit out of that, Marie.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, Chase, my only escape might have been to purged
the fixation.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, you whacko, said a technical term.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, I just liked this movie a whole lot when
I was a kid. Let's not pretend here, regardless of
the panning it got from critics and fans and continues
to get this day to this day. Look that see,
this is the thing that happened later, you know what
I mean. Like in the age of the Internet, everyone
was like, fuck those Shomacher movies, the fucking Batman and

(05:32):
Robin Okay, fine, it.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Took decades for him to be exonerated somewhere.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Fine, but you know his.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Version events where he was mad about it too.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
That took a long time. Well, look, I hate I'm
all I'm saying is I hate the way fan culture
and the critics and everybody rewrite history because in the
age of the Internet, this movie is just as shat
upon as Batman and Robin. But when it came out,
the movie was a monster fucking hit. It grossed fifty
three million dollars domestically in its open weekend. That was

(06:05):
at that point the biggest opening weekend gross of all time.
It broke the record set by National Sorry A Jurassic
Park in ninety three who and it was also the
first film to gross over fifty million in his opening weekend.
Jurassic Park took the record for Batman returns by the
Way in ninety two, but with Forever, it helped the
Batman franchise break a billion dollars at the global box office.

(06:26):
It was the fifth film series to reached the milestone,
after James Spond Star Wars, Indiana Jones and Rocky. It
made three hundred and thirty six million, five hundred and
sixty seven one hundred and fifty eight dollars in nineteen
ninety five, which amounts to seven hundred and six million,
two hundred and fifty eight thousand, seven hundred ninety six
dollars and thirty three cents today, and it was all.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Last track of how much money that was at some point.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Oh yes, a billion dollar movie for God's sake.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
None of that, by the way, covers the soundtrack singles
of which Kiss from a Rose by Seal was one
number one on the US charge three Grammys, hold Me,
kiss Me Well, hold Me Through Me, kissed Me Killing
Me by you Tube. That was a big one. It
doesn't cover the merch the toys. I had fucking t
shirts like that. Every there was there was Batman Forever,

(07:12):
was everywhere. Everybody was wearing Batman Forever. It wasn't quite
Batmania from nineteen eighty nine, but my god, everybody was
quoting Jim Carrey.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
So that part I remember very well. I mean I
didn't watch it that much. I remember watching it sometimes.
I don't think of this one I had my hands on,
though not really. I don't think I had rewatchability for
this movie.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
It just just.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
When I could. But it was as eminently quotable as
anything else carried dead at the time. So you were
just inundated with every like you couldn't go to school
and not come out having heard about a dozen or
so times a few quotes each.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
And this was Jim Carrey at the top of his game.
This was like he had done ace Ventura, and he
had done Dumb and Dumber, and he'd done the Mask
and he was huge.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
He was and you know one of mine outes, I'll
hit right now, athletic as shit.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Like.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I don't know if he actually hit the gym for
this movie. I think he might have, but this was
I think this was like his peak physical form. He
look at how fucking physical the entire role he did.
What it was just he didn't stop moving the entire time.
Every movement was absolutely purp. It was like my brain,
that cane work was pristine.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, dude, it said, but.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
That cane work was amazing. How much you were out
there with a stick. Weren't you like in the yard
doing that shit trying I did.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
There was a piece of trivia where it said that
Jim Carrey broke like twenty something canes and a lot
of furniture in his trailer. Tried to master that.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Probably an hour. Yes, yeah, I'm not surprised. It was
like somewhere towards the end of it, I realized, you know,
in a Batman movie, the single most athletic performance I've
seen here, I think, including some of the stunt people,
is him.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
It was just very engaging as hell. I don't know
when he I don't know if he's really ever stopped
doing that completely. He's still obviously much less, but I
think I felt like, you know, robotneck, he just pulls
that kind of stuff out every once in a while
and just just you know, his let's his body do
the comedy form?

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, this was a prime form.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Just it was like the Beatles don't fucking revolver, right.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Uh So the movie opens with them putting on the batsuit,
one of the very iconic hymn putting on the batsuit. Actually,
let me say this, the movie actually opens with the
Warner Brothers logo turning into the bat symbol. I remember
I was there opening day in Montgomery. That theater was

(09:36):
absolutely jam packed, Like we could not we didn't have seats.
We were standing in the aisle watching this movie.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
They broke fire Marshal.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Coats, they absolutely did. And when that Warner Brother's logo
turned into the bat symbol, like the entire crowd erupted,
like I wish I had video of it because I
have not experienced anything like that until I saw in
game where Kat picks up the fucking uh milliar.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, that was.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
That was bigger, But that was the that was. That
was the next time.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
That must have been nice too. I don't remember if
I was in there, but I don't think I don't
register anything like that. I don't remember even really when
I saw it in theaters. I think it was a
much quieter thing, butro like on an afternoon a couple
weeks later. We didn't get to make it a big event.
But yeah, I absolutely killed then. Oh one thing about
the credits, I forgot kind of how old it is
for where I was immediately reminded how old the movie

(10:33):
is when when the credits are coming at you and
they're shaking a little bit. I love the old, the old,
like little title shake.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Me too, dude. I think about that all the time.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
It was calming in a way, like I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
I really do legitimately think about that all the time.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Credits are too much, so.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Those little like nineteen seventies to like mid nineties film Artifacts. Yeah,
like it was just oh god, it just gives me
a feeling. It's it's it's a let's tell Yeah, I
say in nineteen seventies because that's those are the movies
I really started in on. But like, going back, you know,
what do you think of.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Like the Star Wars scroll or something where you can
just pop and.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
You know, thinking about like they did this the same
wiggle in the fifties and forties and all that shit.
I don't know why specified seven it's a practical wiggle.
Oh so yeah, I get that.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
But my favorite thing about the croutch though, or like
the very first part did you clock this? Because I
did clock it. I went back, like as soon as
I saw it, I was like, no, it can't be
that fast. Four seconds man, uh huh. Four seconds into
the actual footage of the film before that crotch right, Oh,
I know you know what, you know what you're doing
real early in this?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah? Yeah, the tone immediately lets itself be known.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
And what is, by the way, otherwise a very cool
super like the music's a lot of fun that guys
really have a great time. Clearly it's the gadgets in
this film are No, absolutely, It's maybe my favorite part
of the entire freaking design of them.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
And you know, it's funny to look at that too,
because it's like it's totally in line with, uh, the
James Bond of it all, the Pierce Brosnan age of
James Bond, where James Bond was more about gadgets than
it was about anything else.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, that visit to money Penny was a huge fucking
part of the film, man.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Like, yeah, im or Que or whoever the hell.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Or cute or whatever was yeah, c yeah, bastard, that was. Yeah,
that was a huge part of this thing. And like
these they looked amazing. That scene, God, I was, You're like,
I got like three and a half seconds of going like,
oh this is really oh go oh that crotch, which.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
You know what, I prefer the backcrotch over what we
got for Jim Carrey's Riddler, which was you know, him
doing a dance in the back cave while I counted
the fucking veins on his dick.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I mean, yeah, looking like.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Commander Decker from Star Trek emotion picture like putting on
something that's like that's a it's.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
A riddlelyric tradition. I mean, yeah, I forget how to pounce.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Frank Gorshon and Gorshon and John Ashton.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah yeah, Gorshon, I felt like I can tell whether
he was manscaping is his testies that yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
In filming, I mean it was like I could only
only slightly less obvious than the fucking joker mustache situation.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
I'm looking at Gorsia and going, man, you I think
you have a lump. You might need to get checked out.
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I saw his kidneys that leotard one time. Ah yeah,
that was a laugh. It was pain. It was just
an extorted giggle from the girdle.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
So a line in this in this film, right out
of the gate that's pretty pretty pretty close to the
front that I prayed was not gonna be in the movie.
And I was able to do that because it was
all all the fucking McDonald's commercials. Can I persuade you
to take a sandwich with you, sir? I'll get drive through. Yeah,
all the commercials. I was like, please, please don't let

(14:01):
that be in the movie. And it was the first
fucking thing. It is.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I wrote that one down to as the end. Here
we go moment.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Oh god, it's.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
And they really meant They meant it too, man, they did.
That wasn't an accident. He didn't slip it in That
score settled. It was huge that like score goes on
for like sixty seconds before they do this, and it
climaxed for that joke, Like if you were just thinking
the backcroutch was a weird at it? Nah no, no, no, no, no,
no nor.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, and it's like, you know, yeah, we got the picture,
the little shots of the different body armor coming on,
which you know, it's it's so funny that people give
certain people give so much shit to the the Schumacher
movies because he was all about like the Greek you know, physique,
like the perfection, and all the suits are molding into

(14:52):
the All right, fine, it's all it's all vaguely sexual.
Oh yeah yeah and.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Maybe and to his credit, everyone in this movie is
the most fuckable I think they were ever in their
cost But like he knew.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know a lot of the people who give the
o the bat nipples, Oh god, why would they do
bat nipples?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
It was a terrible choice. We all can admit that, chuir.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
But those people will defend.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
But for what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
It made so those people will defend to the death
Zack Snyder's belief that, you know, there's something inherently sexual
about the whole thing of being a superhero and all.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
All.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, secretly that's all they want to do. Yeah, look
at Watchmen. Yeah, look at that, Like, oh my god,
that's all they're doing wanted to do, is they're getting
off on this. Yeah. Yeah, Zax's got it right, it's psychology. Well,
if Zach's got it right, Schumacher's got it right. Baby, Yeah,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
That's all, you know, along the same vein space.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Which I do agree with that, I think, you know.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
But that, like Snyder wasn't subtle. He shot penises in space,
and the first of the French chot was.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
That was different because they're a sexually repressed society. Chase
not even were they shots on their walls and they
shot penises into the phantom zone.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
He's not a Victorian friend.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Oh my god. Yeah, but no, I just think it's
it's funny. Yeah, the strange stances, this hills that fans
will die on. I'm like, you're a fan of what
now and you hate this? Okay? Fine?

Speaker 1 (16:27):
For why for why follow up question?

Speaker 2 (16:34):
So this might be like, legitimately cinematically, the best part
of this movie. Two faces speech as the guard is
tied up. The one man is born a hero, his
brother a coward, baby star, Politicians grow fat, holding men
are martyred, and junkies grow legion. Why why why? Why? Why? Why?

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Why?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Look blind? Stupid? Simple? Do dah clueless? Luck? That whole
the whole speech.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's a beautiful bit.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
It's like, it's the best TIMI Lee Jones is in
this movie.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I had I had a line on it. Would you
like to go?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Absolutely, it says t lj just suffocates this cartoon with talent.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
In one scene. The rest of the time he's off yes,
oh no.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I think when he gets when they let him zoom in,
like when they actually literally zoom into his face and
let him just act for a second. Like I think
he when they give him the full frame he takes
it seriously for half a fucking second and does the
gup and the rest of it's just kind of bouncing
around trying to match the buffoonery. Yeah, so to speak,
he but in that moment they just went, you know what,
this is all you man, just this is this is

(17:40):
the thing, and let him go crazy and just he
he absolutely strangles the idea that this is a cartoon
for a second.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, but it crescendos with him his he's you know,
the toss of a coin, the only true justice, you know,
and he flips the coin. He's like, you know, uh,
what was the line because I didn't write that part
down of course, where he's like, uh, fortune smiles another
day of wine and roses or in your case, you're
in pizza. Yeah, it just it's a It is the

(18:12):
perfect segue into what is now going to be the
rest of two face of this movie is just a
terrible cartoon.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
You know. Actually it's a good point. Uh. It does
segue into another thing as well, that security guard. I
have never wanted a bystander to die mor in a movie.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's acid.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, he actually says, wait, I think I wrote
that part down. It's so somewhere maybe I didn't. He
just actually says, oh my god, it's boiled Oh no,
he says, oh no, there's boiling acid. Yes exactly that.
I cannot imagine a line being done or written more
poorly than that. Yeah, But but it's follow up later

(18:53):
by for some reason, when they're trying to get on there,
like when they're trying to get out of there, there's
some moment where he's just going, oh no, I think
I probably did it with full full of ascular.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
You know what he reminds He has reminded me for years,
decades what I think of that guy. He reminds me
of Ben Stiller from The Camble Guy Ben Stiller, who
was not in the movie except for a very small
ongoing bit where he basically basically played the Menindez brothers

(19:26):
and he has a nine to one one call because
he killed his brother. He plays twin brothers who were
sitcom stars, and he kills his brother. At some point
they played the nine to one one tape and he's going,
they killed my brother. They were speaking some kind of
foreign language. I think it was.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
Asian.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
That whole bit goes on where he just keeps saying Asian.
But that's what the guard reminds me of, is Ben Stiller?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, And then the guard trained solely on that scene.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's bad.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's it's rough. The part that killed me.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
You don't have to.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
I wish I had the whole scene maps you don't
have to watch it with me. But there's a moment
where like Batman's trying to kind of like he has
the plan about how we're getting out of here. The
guy's freaking out all the time. I think that's when
he's like trying to get him up out of the
acid a little bit so he can still his implant.
H crack a safe from the inside.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Which oh, when he pulls that way, when he pulls
that implant out of that hearing aid out.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think they did
just do it with their mouth and fully, oh, that's
my plant.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Thanks, okay, great, and well, but when he pulls it out,
he goes, hey, hey, that's my aid.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
All those the one that killed me was he's trying
to pull him up and Batman just sort of like
hold on, and the guy just says yes, and I
don't know, I don't know what he was responding like,
I don't know but he said but but actually that
brings up a better point. I have an overall theory
for this movie. I want to run short of maybe
a few exceptions we could go through. My theory for

(21:09):
this is that no single line in the movie, no
single isolated line follows logically from the line before it
h hmm in any real way, Like if you pick
any scene, it'll be like Batman and Robin talking about something,
and then the next thing, like they'll talk about one
thing and then Robin will suddenly exclaim and I'm gonna
be your partner, and like we were talking about tacos.
What the fuck happened here? Like the next line is

(21:31):
whatever the writers needed to put in there for the
scene to progress. It has absolutely nothing to do with
anything that happened.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
I want to yes, and you here, but I don't agree.
I just I want to.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Couldn't find us in an instant It just but motivationless.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I do have a lot of problems with the
dialogue in this movie, like the motivations behind the dialogue.
It is weird.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I might it might help if if I sought another
way then, like what if you if you describe the
problems differently.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
I'll get that. Okay, well, you know we can talk
about it now. I can just go back. One of
my one of my least favorite favorite scenes in this
movie is Bruce visiting Chase. Motherfucker walks in. He hears
her screaming huffing and yelling and grunting behind the door.
She's kickboxing a thing, and uh he breaks down our

(22:21):
door from his own little trauma responses, you know, and
uh she's standing there like, you know, like what the
hell is this? And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm Bruce Wayne.
We we we had an appointment. And he's just like
the like he suddenly becomes Clark Kent from the from
the Donner movies where he's just like stumbling and just

(22:41):
he's just like pushing his hair back. It's weird. He
keeps doing like the run his hand his hands through
his hair thing. But it's just a weird thing I noticed.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
But he's like, I mean I kind of get it,
but I mean she hot, we get it.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Okay, fine, but he says, we're talking about the dialogue.
Here goes you know, the whole scene is like this,
like these cringey one liners, and that's the entire conversation
where he's like, I'm Bruce Wayne. She says, good, then
you can afford to buy me a new door, and
and it just goes from there. You sounded like you
were in trouble. I prefer healthy expressions of violence as
opposed to breaking and entering.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
That's the worst line I've ever heard in my life.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
That's terrible, and she says it terribly.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's she says it terribly.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
I don't so how can I help you, mister Wayne?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
But that's that would That was a perfect example of
my thing is like what motivates her to say that sentence?
And what is going on in her head that I
saw on screen that Like there's no reason to say.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Oh, there's absolutely a reason to say it, like it
makes some sense. It's just she said it in a
terrible way because he's like saying, he's explaining that he
knocked down the door, but he's saying, you sounded like
you were in trouble. And she should have said, I
prefer healthy expressions of violence, you know, as opposed to
breaking and entering, which is what he just did. But
you know, the way she said it just makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, that's my promise. Like she doesn't even respond, like
he's saying about something about the door and she starts
talking about how like her overall generic views about expressions,
it's just a weird way, Like it's a weird moment
to have a hot take on this thing. That's completely
non contextual in this.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
It is contextual in the fact that, like he just
knocked down her door. He's trying to explain that she
sounded like she was in trouble. And then but it's
like after this, they both just start having these little
gotcha moments. So she's kind of attacking him, kind of
pointing out, like, dude, you've got some issues because you
were just broke down my door because you thought you
heard something I.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Can't remember that. Is this the one or is it
the following scene between those two where he's just like
hanging a sign on his chest that says I'm Batman.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
And it feels like this one, but I think that
one all of them, But.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Whichever one it was, I just kept thinking, like, is
this just a Batman thing that did in the nineties,
Is like you just this absolute obsession with confessing it?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, Well he doesn't really, but he does kind of
like it's she's you know, kind of pointing out like, yeah,
you've got some kind of issues, like you're breaking an entering.
I prefer prefer healthy expressions of violence. And then she says,
how can I help you, mister Wayne, And he's gotta
he's he's still gotta be a cutec one liner. Someone's
been sending me love letters. My opinion is the writer's
a total wacko. Wacko is that a technical term, you know?

(25:13):
And then we get to he am just walking around
the fucking office like picking at her like you have
a thing for bats. That's a workshack. A better question
is do you have a thing for bats? And he
doesn't acknowledge it. He just moves on and goes still
playing with dolls. Doctor. She's a Malaysian dream board and
some people think she protects you for bad dreams. Are
we done now, Bruce? What the fuck is this dude? Like?

(25:35):
And he's respond I'm really gonna keep you out of
his clothes? Tell me doctor, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
He's in a video game of that era, and she's
just an NBC reciting the things as he's hitting out.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
And they have these like lines like tell me doctor,
tell me doctor, do you like a circus? Like you
just sat like? You know, these like AI scripted like
reels that come up on your social media that's like
trying to get you to subscribe to some kind of
service so you could get these like awful like serialized
uh like little soap opera things. They're just terrible.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I I have only recently heard that this even exists,
and the TikTok soap opera situation.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, it's just it's just But this is what this
reminds me of. This is this very lifetime, very movie
of the week, people saying you see before they actually
say a sentence, you see, tell me doctor, Like, this
is bad. But that's what I'm what I'm talking about.
Like the technically the dialogue makes sense contextually, but it's

(26:38):
still awful.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
I just kept feeling like it was like whatever they
were saying, it was loosely threaded to the fact that
they were saying something in a conversation, but it was
always just I mean it like her, like, yeah, here's
a vague thought I have about the idea of interactions
with a person, and it's so far removed from the
thing you say right then about the door or the
person or the guy standing in front of you or
or I'm not just trying to say, like, oh my god,

(27:02):
I wish this was a realistic movie. This is so
far beyond I wish this was more realistic dialogue. To me,
it's just it's I wish a human wrote it dialogue.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
It's nuts, and it still makes more sense than Dick screaming.
Now before he jumps off of that catwalk, I want
to to who to no one? No one?

Speaker 1 (27:22):
I thought he was trying to get Alfred's attention.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, no, Albret's like, well, I'm about to go in
this door he asked me about. Let me down to
that goes down to the bat cave.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
And he's like, no, leave, I'm gonna break in something, right.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, let me make sure I'm aster to Dick here?
Are you anywhere? I'm up here? There's no wagon, possibly
a possible to get down there. Al all right, just checking,
young sir. Now, you would think al would go fuck
and like jump back and shut at the door because
he took a good like fifteen seconds to like do
his fancy flips off of all the things.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
He's gonna be one of those people. It's like a
magician who's like, look at this a normal set of cards.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Why would you say that absolutely about these cards? Yeah,
you know, nothing suspicious, unmarked. Don't look in the top
right corner, my good.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Man whispers to his friend. It's in the top.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah. So running back to the top though, Uh, two
Face and the goons. Two Face and his goons are
great indicators of the tone, like they are those goons
are goofy as ship like they've all got gift masks.
They're all just running around with neon fucking machine guns.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
For some reason.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Uh, they're they're but they're acting like like their body
languages like the Putties from the Power Rangers, but at
instead of going like them, they're like going.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Like you say that, you say that, but when you
made that sound, I remembered, Sorry, of christ one of
them made that sound. Somewhere in the movie. It's one
one of them get shipped they have, because that's straight
one of them. I think it's maybe shocked.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Like it was.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
It sounded enough that like that that I started later
listening for the film Screamer just because I thought.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Eighty seconds no that the Wilhelm.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Man gets attacked by alligator screen it's coming up.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, but yeah, like, and we we get this shot
of Gotham and I'm like, what the hell happened to
Gotham in between, because like, canonically, you know, we've gone
back and ret conned it where it's like these are
two or these are separate earths, you know, in the
multiverse of DC. But at the time Batman Forever was

(29:43):
meant to be the same universe as Batman and Batman Returns.
So not only did you whitewashed Harvey Dent took Billy
D Williams away, which she sounds a bitches.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, true, kind of forgot that was even in the
casting point.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Took Billy D Williams away.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, I didn't think about any of the movies before
this is just.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
By the way, separately point this out too. Joel Schumacher
hated the idea of Billy D Williams playing two face
so much he paid Billy D's acting fee in full,
as required by his payer player pay contract that he
set up in Batman eighty nine. Like he paid him
out so that he could cast somebody else as as

(30:25):
two face. They just wasted a chunk of money.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
I just don't understand to get rid.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Of Billy D Williams. How crazy is that.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's a perfectly serviceable actor.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
He was a very good actor. He's a lot of fun.
Can you imagine him like saying that first speech like
one man is born a hero? His brother coward just
like dude like the swave fucking Lando Calorissian like he would.
I don't live.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I don't think I'd enjoy his version as much.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
As timling Joe. I think I'd enjoy it more.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
I'm just going through the record of what I'd know
this guy's done, and I just.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Don't know that if you have Billy D. Williams there
instead of who was at the at the time, you know,
a serious but way lesser known actor, Tommy Lee Jones
was if you have Billy D. Williams there, like I
wonder how like I can't imagine him going along with
half of the ship thiss in this movie. I feel
like he would just be going to the executives going
like this is some bullshit.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
About it.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I'm gonna say I like this, Okay, yes, sir, mister Williams.
I'm sorry, Billy D. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I mean that that's the funny where like I could
sit there and it feels stupid to consider like what
I do him or Tommy Leek, like I just it's irrelevant,
Like if I had if I had Billy D. I
don't think I would ever. It just wouldn't occur to me.
I mean, be looking around.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Just think about how he played Harvey in the first Batman.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Movie, Like I might rewrite that first speech for his
strength a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
But he also had like a fantastic speech at the
beginning of Batman. But you know he's like, we're going
to knock down the doors, shed the light of the law.
Oh that's the vipus Like hell yeah, he tells. He
tells the reporter at the Bruce Wayne Gala, He's like,

(32:15):
we have enough to worry about in this town without
worrying about ghosts and gablins. I love I love them.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
See, I'm not sure I would love the little like
slightly preachrish inflections on a two face. Part of me
gets it, part of me gets it, like it's not
it's not a deal.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Oh, I don't know. I don't. I think I'm in
love with the idea, honestly.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
But I wouldn't. Like that's some things like I could
see getting do it. Just it would never occur to
me to actually be like, no, this will never work.
I'll pay him off.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
No, there are twelve things I would try.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
There is no well, the first thing I would try
is just bringing in Billy d and being like, let's
do this ship like you're gonna kill it. Man. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah. I think your initial problem though, with facing this
problem is that you do not see it as one.

Speaker 6 (32:59):
I'll see it as one. I'd bring in, bring in
the land from from Empire, man, I'd be like, Yeah,
it's like while tip Ball being two faced, can you
wear the Lando K?

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Can you? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Worthless as a consultant.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
I'm not even a Star Wars fan. I just like
Billy d. Yeah, I'm gonna need you to have the
Lando K of a tumbler of scotch and your signature cigar.
I don't know how you're gonna flip that coin, but
this is gonna be a situation right now.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
It's another franchise, you know, give him stuff and fucking
hit film it. Man.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
He was just so cool. He was so cool in
eighty nine, Like he had so little to do in
that movie, but he killed like the two scenes he
was in.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, had some serious swagger.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
I was just and he signed onto that movie. That
makes seem part of it's like sentimentality, like you know,
like I feel bad for Cavil, you know, still, like
I know, I know, show business not show friends. You
gotta move on. Sometimes still feel bad for Cavil, same
way I feel bad for Billy d. He signed on
to play Harvey the first movie knowing that he was
supposed to be two faced later that's why signed on.

(34:04):
He was like, oh I want to play two faced.
Yeah anyway, well.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
That's the story we would have told of Ryan Reynolds
too in another version of events.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
So we get to this Gotham. We're looking at this
Gotham and my head cannon is that in universe. Joel
Schumacher also exists in universe, as that universe is Crazy Quilt,
and he was hired to renovate big chunks of the
city because they were in the running to have the Olympics.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
That's my guess of how gothing got this way between it.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
And then like the Olympics said we're not Yeah, we're
not doing this because you guys renovated. But then all
the rape gangs got inspired by the Neon and started
wearing glowing the dark makeups so that you could see
them coming in more ways than one, and.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
So like one crisis event later they kept all the style. Yeah,
Crazy Quilts now kind of a fifth dimensional situation rather
than a person, all right, and then they brought in
some of the weird dark Knight era vibe.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
This situation it was just so weird. It's like it
was already jarring between eighty nine and ninety two Batman
and Batman Returns. I'm like, oh God, now ninety two,
I think this is a much cleaner, more uptown version
of Gotham, the last Gotham. You know, the script called
the city a cancer. Yeah, and I believed it. Well.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
His plan was to blow it up to improve it.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And then like Batman Returns, all of a sudden, it's
like metropolitan and dark and dreary, but still metropolitan. Batman Returns,
by the way, is the first one who had the
big statues. Everyone blamed Schumacher for the giant statues in Gotham.
Batman Returns, did that shit? They were giant naked statues
holding levers, pulling levers. Now they didn't. They weren't as

(35:50):
big as the statue Schoemacher brought in. But Schumacher was like,
you know what, I like these statues. Let's make him
like fifteen times bigger and put me on on every
fucking thing. It was.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
It was everything everything, It was everything at one of
my notes just says glow fight the next question, because
I didn't know what else.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
To do a rave everybody's at a rap fight. He's
had a raven Gotham these days. And and Batman gets
there with a hostage situation, and Chase is so flirty
and cringey and her bat her Batman banter is so
inappropriate given the circumstances. I love that Gordon is finally
just like, can we do something now?

Speaker 1 (36:26):
He's got people who yeah, he swats the vulva out
of her hand just to get the scene moving.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Oh god, it's rough.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I mean that that's the first time that I was like,
this is a seriously thirsty movie. They're like, they're not
even pretending. Yeah, no, Like I think I wrote down
somewhere in there that like she would probably blow him
in front of his grandmother or her grandmother right then. Well, Jesus,
it's just it's overwhelming.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I think when she when she activates the bat signal
in her ninety yes, uh, she's just flirting and cringe
at the hostage situation.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, I kind of forgot about the night. Well that
was the point where like that was where I was
a pinpointing that was like the first time she meets him.
It's not like it builds up over the course now
like the rest of the movie, she's just like peppy
fucking lapute.

Speaker 7 (37:16):
Like she's just at a constant level of one going
at it. But it's there's no ramp, so the first
thing is just a square edge that you hit that
chart on and like, yeah, that first thing just comes
across as like aggressively thirty because of it.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Absolutely, she's just been like hanging around and hoping to
get us a shot at the bat. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, it's uh, that was where we get the chicks
love the car though, right, or.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
That it's both. It's both Jason, both of them. He's like,
it's the car, right, chick stick the car, Like yeah, yeah,
it's totally a thing that Robin says in the second
movie where he's like the car comes up, but it's
all like I didn't like the the little like redbird
cycle pops up and he goes, I don't want a car,

(38:03):
chickstick the car.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's okay. So that's why because I wrote down, like, hey,
is that that's where that came from, just thinking, oh.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Man, where it came from?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
But it's just it was reiterated, I see.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
And and I love see.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I'll know how Val does this though it's a very
sight like it's self deprecating Batman. Yeah, I hadn't seen that.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
That's yeah, even when Brew. That's the thing about Val though,
is that I noticed, especially watching it this time, was
he has corny one liners, but he says them straight.
I could see Conroy saying it, yeah most of the time.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, that was an overall note had about just the
performance unveil was it looks very straightforward and he he
does a ton with what he's giving. But I can't
tell if you just sort of not giving a lot,
because it's like the way we used to make fun
of Stephen amel on set of Arrow, Just like, hey, like,
what level of emotion am I allowed to have the day?
Is like between twenty twelve or fourteen percent? What am
I supposed to be?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
If you're playing a fourteen playing back, we're having a
fourteen percent episode. Oh, if you're playing Batman, I think
that's appropriate.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
It is a little bit, and that's fine, as I.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Was it was appropriate for his version of Ali, but
you know, yeah, his version of Ali was just CW Batman,
let's be let's be clear.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, they just they would have made that show.
I think he's yeah, but I don't think a right
like you're not gonna have a breakout like let's get
nuts kind of a moment out of that version. I
think the most breakout he is when he's unmasked probably
is what like at the uh what is that circus
or whatever? When he's like standing up and screaming on

(39:30):
Batman maybe. Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
I think the most unhinged he gets as Bruce is
after Robin saves him, after Dick saves him at that
big gallop thing in the sand, and then like he's
like running around shirtless with bandages on his ribs and
he's like you could have got yourself killed in the
bat cave talking to Dick. That I think that was
the most the most unhinged.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
But yeah, the most effusive, uh.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Him pretending that he's yelling on Batman at the circus was.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
It was two quick middle points on him trying very hard,
are you brutes?

Speaker 2 (40:05):
No?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
But just a quick logistics snapmare for me in the
middle there. You can't do a couple of things. I
just just know, so you can't you just can't be
screaming on Batman. Like, I know it's a crowded scene.
I know the idea would be you'd head candidate as
far as like, you know there's a lot going on
or what. Yeah, but I just I just know I
don't like a version of Batman where he's running around

(40:27):
screaming on Batman every time someone's in. Vaguely, yeah, that's
not that's not perfect for me. But also just as
a just as a filmmaking decision, I do not understand
that you can't put the Graysons in a Robin costume.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Why.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
It's weird. Like I get what you're going for as
far as, oh, the legacy he kept his colors and
all that, but like it's too close.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, it's close enough that later I'd be.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Like, oh, the fucker's clearly a fucking grace.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah that makes sense. I don't think I ever really
thought about that at all. Weirdly, but you're you make
perfect sense there. I agree.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
He tones it down a little bit, but it's not
gonna be much like a convenience sort. Clark's gonna nail
you on this one.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
It's like, uh, you know, oh, but up at news
at eleven, it would appear that Batman's news sidekick is
wearing the costume of the recently deceased Flying Grayson's.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
We've pulled the footage in it is clearly.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
This is clearly Dick Grayson, the only Grayson who didn't die.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, cursory go ahead shows that he's now living at
this address.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
With Bruce Wayne, who probably is Batman.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
I hate to be the one to break it, so
it's so simply on the local news evening, but yeah,
I think we have it, guys.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
In related news. We've isolated the audio from the circus. Yeah,
we have footage of Batman Bruce Waye screaming I'm Batman, Harvey,
I'm Batman.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
But like it would be such a routine news story
for it, Like it would be so simple that they
would break into and another news salmonella is called recalls
recently in your grocery aisle, Like it would that would
be the next fucking story. Yeah, yeah, local City County.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
See. In my in my perfect version of that circus scene,
like two faces, like I know one of you, you know,
chances are one of you bastards is Batman or whatever
the hell. And then chase like looks over at Bruce,
and he's just gone, like Bruce Green Beret out of
there as soon as he realized that dude the announcer
was two face.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
That's yeah, that's kind of my non preferred version of
events is that he just is. He goes to everybody
he is the king of the Irish could buy he
will show up later and apologize if that suits at.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
The purpose and if Chase is as smart as she
seems to or they seem to be trying to make
us think she is. She looks over, she sees Bruce
is gone, makes the connection immediately and just starts furiously
flicking her bean right in the middle of the crowd.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Just which from scene one, you have to assume it
has been happening.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
In the enentirement, right, Yeah, she's just got like adult
with like bad ears on it something easily.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Rather, I feel like you either know this or looked
it up and I ad any edmcating is chase hulk cloth.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yes, Chase's hull cloth. She was invented for the movie.
You know, she wound up in the comics some nine
years later.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Okay, well, then is a logistics question here. Why not
just use Vicky Vane.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Because Vicky Vale was a photojournalist and not a psychologist.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah, trafficing, I keep psychiatrist or WHATETHERU. I don't know
why I keep, you know, I keep forgetting that she
had any role in uncovering anything in the movie.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, no, I was curious about like all the the
psychology jargon and stuff, given your background, Like I expected
you to come in swinging honestly.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like, yeah, it's just complete nonsense.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I was just complete nonsense.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, when don't even go in for it.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, they tried so hard, and that was like it
the the apparently the Shoemaker cut leaned so much heavier
into Bruce's psychology and like his guilt, the guilt that
he felt over his parents dying, and it was supposed
to follow that thread a lot more of him finding
his father's diary or whatever, unrealizing on the final page

(44:16):
that it was his father who wanted to go see
the movie, not him, so he didn't have that it
wasn't his fault that his parents got killed.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Well that's good because they never quite unpack it. I
mean they stopped for that at some point. Affort's like
that's not what you said.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Right, Like it you said they killed them.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, yeah, like they and then like the scene and
the movie and Bruce all metaphorically and meticalley just ignore
it and move on.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
And that's one of the reasons I want to make
That's one of the reasons I really want to see
the Shoemaker cut is because, you know, the movie clearly
has a lot of threads of obsession, Like Chase is
obsessed with Batman. You know, Robin is obsessed with killing
two Face. You know, Bruce is obsessed with, you know,

(45:04):
being this beacon of the night because of his parents,
and obsessed over the idea that he might have been
responsible and he feels responsible for not outing himself and
the Grayson's dying, you.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Know, So to tue that in, to keep pulling that
Riddler is obsessed, Riddler is obsessed with exactly. So of
all those, I kind of I'm the only like set
of motivations in this movie that felt like it was
I saw it on screen, it made sense, it paid off,
the story of the performance, the what I got to
see without the head cannon made sense, and it was

(45:38):
just it was only just Riddler's like Riddler being just
crushed or enigma in that case, just being crushed that
his that he he had this dream, it was all
supposed to be on this one moment and it just
gets flippantly dismissed, doesn't even get to finish the sentence,
like he but they let him do the anger well
on screen there. And by the way, I genuinely think
that was part of the reason they got so much
out of him on this movie was they told him
he could be as fear inducing as he was manning

(46:00):
it felt. It felt like because when they when they
want to let him actually terror as people, they stopped
the camera and really let him have fun, like and
it's good, Like it's genuinely good. But yeah, like his obsession,
like what he sold on Screams on a part that
actually made sense for me. Everybody else is like, and
Bruce in particular, is like they just oversell. And that
was maybe why I was deeply not interested in psychology.

(46:20):
It was like, they so oversell how much he's supposed
to be obsessed with this and fixated, and I just
like it comes across as weird because they don't they
don't let me care it.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, there was there was a lot that they could
have unpacked. I feel like because they were all so
hinting at him blaming himself for two Face because he
does they do say on the news he tried to
stop the acid from hitting Harvey and he failed.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, okay, well I wondered about that too, So that
last line out of Harvey, I jotted that one down too,
like that for for exactly that reason. They saw this,
this whole thing up and like that last line should
be devastating.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Oh, it's been a good friend, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Is that one in his real voice? Like say it
says that as Batman has betrayed Hyeah, which, by the way,
was hilarious because apparently the last, like the big climax scenes,
his big thing is to say something slightly confusing and
throw something real fast and not.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Just anything a box full of of.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Of coins, yeah, which Batman's could move is. So here's
verbal verbal deflection and yeat.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
That's here's why that's funny. It's not a bad just
not a bad plan. But it's like we've it's a
bad riddles. Yeah, but we've we've had these like the
news reports being like Harvey two Face has been wreaking
havoc across the city and Chase's awful fucking reason for
shining the bat signal, And he's like, what do you
need And she's like, I've been thinking about uh you know,

(47:46):
two faces. It's this coin. This is Achille's heel. He
makes all of his decisions on and Batman just veries like,
I know you called me here for this. The bat
signal is not a beeper. Yeah, but like that's absolutely
how he defeats to so like she's like, it's his coin,
this is achilles heel. He's like, yeah, I know. And
then later he's like that's pretty good. Fuck.

Speaker 8 (48:08):
We don't see the scene where he goes back like
and then like later in the movie, later in the
movie you see a little box full of the like
with all the coins like in the batcave, just hanging
out on the counter.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
You know, I love you at this idea that Batman
just totally just didn't catch that before. He's like, I
don't know there's something about that coin anyway. Uh, I'm
gonna figure out a way to stop him. And then
she's like, oh, yes, the coin, this is achilles heel.
He's like, yeah, I know, that idiot. That's actually pretty good.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Do you flag him as the type that like mutters
and rage manufactured a dozen others quietly in the middle
of the night. Yeah, knowing that he was the tool there?
Or or or is he more of a brand Agan
kind of situation where he just forgot until he thought
it was his idea. Yeah, it's possible too, both repp

(48:56):
for grabs.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, I'm good with either. It's hilarious. I I need
to know where did where where did Edward get his
riddler merch because he's like trying to figure out a
name for himself after he kills Stickley, which, by the way,
did you notice who that guy was? Yeah, the boss
that he kills, who's like, yo, yea, you'll never work
on the town nick Mom Bagley junior. Dude, I don't.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Think I know him. If I it's a name, No,
ed I have to remember where the guy it's like
a name that's.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Just you remember the dude on on Arrested Development who
has alopecia and his fucking eyebrows keep falling off?

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, that guy? That guy?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah really, Yeah, I'm surprised that was him.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
But dude, okay, I'm gonna make you go back and
now and look. The day after Stickley dies, and Bruce
is like marching around in the office with his like assistance.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
M hmm.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
One of the assistants is John Favreau. Oh that's good. Yeah.
And he had lines in the Schoemaker cut evidently. Yeah, Like, dude,
just John Favreau just slinging his dick all over the
comic book movies. Man. We didn't even know, Like he
was behind the scenes, he was in front of the camera.
We didn't even know. We're just like, oh, that's a
little John.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
That's gotta be some real streak, some some genuine streak credits.
I've been here so long. I got cut from the
street marker.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I mean he's still in it as far as like
you see him walking around the lines got cut. I'm
just like John Favreau, happy Hogan. He has not only
assisted Tony Stark, He's assisted Bruce Wayne and Matt Burdock, Batman, Daredevil,
an Iron Man.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I just and in his college years, Jeremy Pitten that
is cred. He's like my favorite side bit from PCU,
that long forgotten movie.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Mm. I need to watch that again. I've only seen.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Pieces of that on I assume it holds up, Harry, I.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Probably don't Oh no, it's gonna be bad. It's gonna
be like, ooh, why are they saying that word?

Speaker 1 (50:54):
That is bad?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, that's one of those though.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
If you make some time, let me know. I think
I want to join that one.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
That's gonna literally if we did. If I watched that movie,
I will let you know. I we recently just saved
it on our Roku because we saw it and we
were like, oh, that movie. I haven't seen that movie
and I just saved it. Is weird that you bring
it up. So I will absolutely, I will absolutely let
you know. Maybe we'll do like a little review for
the Patreon.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
That would be fun. I used to actually have the
vhs that one in high school.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
By the way, So patreon dot com slash DC on screen.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Please join us.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Please join us one dollar or five dollars a month
or free, but you won't get to listen.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Join us and then do yourself a favor once you
get there. Demand things demand.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
We just need some kind of feedback.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Christ It's mostly I just need to remind everyone.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah, that is rough. It is hard. Uh. By the way,
that terrible helicopter, Oh I was a kid, I thought
it looked great and looking at it today, I was
just like.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Oh no, it looks like it's from that cartoon reboot.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yeah, so here's my theory. Yeah, the the gear, the gadgets,
the set design itself, costumes, some choreography, sure makeup obviously
those that's where the money went.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
No, I think the money went to Jim Carey.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yes, yes, I didn't. I didn't put names in this
basket at all. I'm in the production side of u.
Uh so take all that off the top, but like
of what people were doing that have, you know, the
words something director by their name, Like, I think that's
where the money went. And then I said that because
those four look phenomenal. Like I said earlier, the gear, god,

(52:36):
I still want that gear looks so good. The sets
themselves like fantastic. Those costumes are absolute nightmare. It's it's nonsense.
Those are those are the like ancestors of the fucking
Disney toscend it to movies. But like they're they're impressive
in a way, and the sets are sure as hell.
Pretty genuinely it's a very pretty movie.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah. By the way, the two face set that Riddler infiltrates, Yeah,
literally the same place where Max Shrek gets kidnapped and
Batman returns like the big the big face coming out
of the wall, Like, yeah, they just painted it. Yeah.
By the way, best set dressing, sugar and spice. I'm
just gonna go ahead and say that just Drew Barrymore.
Literally just Drew Barrymore.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Honestly, I had to double take so many times to
be like, is that is it?

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Really? Yeah? Okay, yeah, just like oh, look at two
face being Polly is fuck up in here? Okay, I
get it. By the way, I was reminded of this
last night. My wife laughed so hard I decided I'm
gonna have to work this into the show.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Uh. A few years ago, several years ago, now, I
didn't like I knew the word polyamorous, but it like.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
So so to your where did you misuse it?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Like Okay, when at a certain point I started noticing it,
there were the term poly popping up online a lot,
and it would always just be like, oh, these the motherfuckers.
I can't take these poly motherfuckers, or you know, like, oh,
I'm Polly, so if you have a problem with someone
being Polly. But you know, it was just all like
everyone was starting to use polly you know online as.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
I like worried about rising racism against Polynesians for a while.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
No, I I thought it was short for Pollyanna, So
I thought they would being like, I'm not fucking that
super positive. You got a problem with a super positive person?
They didn't, do, you know. I thought that's what they
were talking about.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
So that's funny.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
For a while, like there was you know how things
just trend on the Internet, people start using certain terminology
like insanely and uh yeah, there was like a short
period of time where polly was just used a lot.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
It did get deeply overused.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
For a while, and I thought they were talking about
someone being Pollyanna, someone being very just like way too positive.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
It's real dumb. And then when I realized what it was,
I was like, oh, I'm stupid.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I don't think I knew the context for secon like
I know poly to me meant many, yeah, just the
pre fixed many. So I didn't have any associations until
somebody kind of pinned me down. I was like, oh,
they mean, like, oh, they mean like.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
You thought they were talking about like Legion from the Bible,
where it's like I didn't have anything like these poly motherfuckers, like,
oh yeah, those those people who were possessed by several demons.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Kind of yeah. But that's like how you learn about
words in a lot of ways, is that you just
see some word being used, and like you, unless you
just saw it and wanted to dig out ideally, you
just kind of glanced it off, like, Okay, there's like
a word people are describing themselves with. I don't I
don't need to know about whatever that word is right
this second, so I'll just discard it. You see it
a few times, and then eventually you run into some
situation where you're like, I'm going to explore this, and

(55:39):
looking back, that's usually when you're like, oh, what the yeah,
you don't have a clear picture. In the meantime, it's
just a weird word with like no association.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
I have to say, I thought my I thought my
guess was pretty good, though not bad. I mean, if
there's there's one thing that's divisive on the Internet, it's
people being positive about shit.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah, kind of in a way, but it's also hilariously
insightful about you that that was the part that you
thought was the most the thing the Internet was the
most pissed off.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
About, and I agreed with the people who were pissed off.
I'm like, yeah, I don't like poly people.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
With like the stolen valor of happiness.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
These people are too positive and everything like gross.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Genuinely, if there's a cardinal scent of the Internet, it
is fake sincerity like that. That'll that'll get you. I'll
get you every time.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
I know. I think the cardinal scent of the Internet
is bowldying behind anonymity.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
That maybe the cardinal crime of the Internet.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Potato potato gonna split.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Just to keep my word, yeah, if you were too
verbally gymnastic yourself gymnastic, I wanted to incorporate yours and
keep the one I loved. Yes, I would do it that.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Way, all right. So, uh, Holy Rusted Metal Batman.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Wrote it down myself, my favorite line of the movie.
That's your favorite line, It's it's my It's that it's
my favorite joke. That was both funny in a way
that the film was trying to be like it was.
It was the one that hit like it was. They
knew they were a joke, but they did it so
well right then that I was on board with it.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
There was a lot of funny lines in the movie, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Like passingly funny, but that was the one that actually
kind of got me, like where I was like, oh,
you got me.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
The whole theater laughed when I saw this thing.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
They should. It was a good line.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Holy rush of metal, Batman, Huh the ground is all metal.
It's full of holes like holy holy, which is a
line that was begging to be said by Michael Sarah
before it even knew it, like.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
His parents left the theater that night and conceived him.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah. One of my favorite lines when Enigma hits Stickley
in the head with the coffee canister and goes caffeine
will kill you that shit, dude. Almost everything Riddler said
in this movie was funny to me.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
It was deeply good.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yes, you're ruining my big party. Are you insane? Just
waiting for you to deliver the Batman dear boy, patients
so bifurcated one patience, Hell, we want them dead. Well,
you could have let me in on the kaper. We
could have organized this planned it pre sold the movie rights.
I feel like almost every Jim Carrey line was in
the trailers and commercials.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Kind of I mean, they just filmed him being charismatic
and put a Batman movie here.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
And then immediately after that line, Batman enters through the
skylight starts fighting the thugs.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Oh he start talking about the entrance.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, your interest was good. His was better. The difference, yeah, showmanship.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
That was say I Colleck. That one, though, is the
moment where it's like, uh, Riddler's really coming into his own.
This is the moment where he's just wrestling with the
other villains as equals. Now he's mad he stepped on
his toes and he's given him shit in the process
about like, ah, he's he's dropped his villain test easier.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Uh So. My favorite, my absolute favorite line in the
movie is very, very subtle. You almost don't catch it.
It's right after it's like Bruce and Alfred are trying
to figure solve all these riddles, which I love the
fact that they were solving the riddles. They were sitting
around and actually piecing it out, and Bruce figures out oh,
mister e Enigma, Edward Nigma. And as they're walking away,

(59:03):
Alfred under his breath as the scene closes out, says,
you really are quite bright despite what people say. I
howled I'd forgotten a line, but I remember it well.
As soon as I heard it, I was like, oh yeah,
love that line. Favorite line of this at the very
least this time watching.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I like it, and I like the fact they're giving
each other shit again, But like, why the favorite for
you on that one?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Uh? Because it's Alfred. I love Alfred. I love Michael
Goff's Alfred.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
You do adore this Alfred?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
I do. He's just like.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Might be your favorite on screen. Actually I don't think
he is.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
This sweet, kind, loving father figure. He takes care of everyone.
Like I want to cry when he says, you know,
broken wings mend in time, Robin will fly again, I promise, Like,
oh my god, dude, Like how do you?

Speaker 1 (59:55):
He is an absolute live caricature of like the car
like the BTA scalf for though, like because there there's
like them I five Alfred and then there's the Gentleman's
gentleman Outfred. Those are two kind of main outforts, right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Which like BT s Alfred is you know, he's got
a little bit of the the m I five, but
he's really more or less like just like he's just
a sarcastic bastard.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
He's just a Yeah, he's a British cunt. Sometimes yeah,
he's just everything you expect.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
That Michael golf Alfred is all things like you could see,
is kind. You could see he may have had something
to do uh with with with I five maybe, but
they don't ever go into that. What they what they
do is they show him fixing, like helping fix the batmobile,
helping fix different things. He's helping solve riddles, he's bringing
like the paper. He's a cook, he's like sophisticated and

(01:00:42):
ship it's fishy Swiss. It's supposed to be cold, you know,
like he's got all the things. But he's so so
kind and funny. So at the same time that he's
gonna build you up, he's gonna like stab you in
the back a little bit. Like it's just funny as
ship like he may he sells them and I'll say that.
I say that about the the next movie too, Like

(01:01:04):
he's the emotional heart of Batman and Robin and he's
not quite that here. But also he kind of is.
I mean, when like Bruce wakes up after being knocked
out and he says.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
That is I mean, they don't let him anchor this
like they should.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
They don't, but he says, but just that one scene
where he's like, how are you, young man, and Bruce
is like, you haven't called me that in a long time,
and he says old habits die hard And he just
does it with this like this fucking face of like kindness,
a twinkle in his eye, like I want to hug
this man. Yeah. Yeah, Like he sells the Bruce and

(01:01:39):
Batman relationship. He I mean, sorry, the Bruce and Alfred relationship.
He makes me. He's the reason I feel like this
is the same Batman as as Skeaton.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Yeah, and don't get that there's something deeply in there though,
and I do. There is a genuine sense of how
you're describing this that like I think there's a part
of you that wishes that was your grandfather. But for
all the good reasons. Yeah, because like what what a
kind what a kind caring man? And like you said,
like everything like like everything he said comes across exactly
that way. It's like, oh, that's the most fucking thoughtful

(01:02:11):
thing anything could have thought of right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Yeah, And it's not like it's not it's unfairly he's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Well anchored in a place where nothing else is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
It is an unfair feeling that I get because of
the previous Batman movies as well and the subsequent one. Yeah,
so it's not even like a this is Batman Forever's
fault or or or or you know their credit. Uh,
Michael Goff is just brilliant and wonderful with what he's
actually given, you know, because I've got all of those

(01:02:39):
feelings about him, you know, bringing the files to Bruce
in the first one, and Bruce is like, what's on
your mind, Alfred, because he knows Alfred's got Alfred's not talking,
Alfred's being quiet and weird. And then Alfred's like, I
have no no desire. That's been my few remaining years
grieving over the loss of old friends or the sons,
Like damn dude, cut cut quick, oh down to the quick,

(01:03:05):
like stop dwelling in the past, Master Bruce Jesus Christ.
So like, you know, he's he has this love for Bruce,
he has this and he's given that love to Dick
as well, and being like he already knows what's coming,
he knows what's in Dick's heart. He already knows that
like Dick needs to figure out his shit, like he's
already probably making a fucking suit for him. Oh yeah,

(01:03:28):
and he'd have to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
It's very clear in the in this movie, it's very
clear that like the moment he sees the suit, he's
eyeing it like mm hmmmmmmm, I got plans for that.
And then later who's your tailor? Yeah? Like eight, he
like that like Chris o' donald's. By the way, quick
shout out to how fucking old he is in this
movie drafting. One of the worst things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
The nineties was like peak time for like forty year
olds to be playing teenagers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Man, not just sorry bro, he did. It's not it's
a great try. It's I mean, nothing personal about this.
It's just there's no planet in which that face was
supposed to be playing that age. It's just not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
It's been had been two years earlier, it would have
been Luke Perry smoking a pack of Marlboroughs, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
It could have been yeah, like playing a twelve year old.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Yeah mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Oh, speaking of I'm gonna give you quickly the worst
thing in this entire movie. Oh, okay, Ninja laundry. Yes,
I wanted to burn Hollywood down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Actually, actually, actually I'm gonna I'm gonna know but you
instead of yes and you. But only so far as
to say the worst.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Thing dubious that you can beat ninja laundry.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
The worst thing was not ninja laundry. The worst thing
was the wink and finger gun. After the ninja laundry.
It didn't help, but but possibly possibly though.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
It was like finding a picture of your with the
person they cheated on you with later.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
But possibly to counterweight that worst thing in the movie.
Maybe the best thing in the movie was Alfred's expression
having seen it, what was it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I didn't even colleck it. I was so distracted. What
is what does he do with this?

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Just a look of confusion and disgust that the scene exists.
I mean, he was just reacting to Dick Man. Just
oh my god, I'm talking him speaking about Alfred. Oh
my god. Yeah ah ah. I'm sorry to bother you, sir,
but I have some rather distressing news about Master Dick.
What is he all right? I'm afraid Master Dick has

(01:05:37):
gone traveling. He ran away. Actually he took the car
he boosted the jag not the Jaguar, the other car,
the Bentley.

Speaker 5 (01:05:47):
No, sir, the other car and just that like that
little frumpy like Oscar the Grouch Muppet face Alfred makes
when he goes the other cause.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
The intrusion of Scrooge leaps at you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
I love it. I love it so much and shout
out to Bruce for having the first Apple Watch.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
That wasn't on Dick Tracy's arm. That's one of my
favorite memories of my grandpa is he was just he
would tell me about how he liked Dick Tracy. He
was like, oh, I should read that Dick Tracy. And
then and then they just went too far. He had
a TV on his wrist and he could talk to
people with and that ain't real. That'll never happen. It

(01:06:32):
just is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
You could get that in radio Shack, like from a
Radio Shack catalog you could wear the early eighties, Yeah,
it just never took off for all the obvious reasons.
I think there was a nerve. I think there was
a deeply early version where it like had basically a
belt that you had like you had to wear the
tech on the belt to do it, but you could
actually just have like a little wire that went up
your chest where you watch TV on your wrist. It
was crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
You might also be just be remembering Blank Man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
You're good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Do you remember that movie where like David Allen Greer's
character has got like a belt that's a communicator with
David Wayams and he's like, he's like they're brothers, and
he's like, oh, yeah, you got to come do this,
and he's like yelling at it. He's bent over screaming
at his belt. I can't play with you right now,
And like the hot girl that he likes is watching him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
That sounds that sounds right. I think I've seen that scene,
but I can't remember if I actually have. That's I
don't know how many times I passed that cover in
a movie gallery issle, like just over and over again.
I think I've seen that VHS probably one hundred times,
and I don't know that it ever made it to
our house.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
I can't promise this. I can't promise this good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
I think you promise me it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I can promise you I have fond memories of it.
At the very least.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
That's probably true too, Like for the same reasons that
I saved Friday the other day because I was like,
you know, this is this is a classic movie. I
should go back and rewatch this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
At yeah point, yeah, oh absolutely, there's there's there's some
good stuff in Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I just feel like it's part of like a it's
enough part of like culture that some point you're supposed
to go you watch it, refresh yourself. I feel like, yeah,
you're supposed to do these things once in a while,
just like hygiene.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Got a quick stats question for you ready, sure what
presented the movies in Dutch angle? Do you think.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Not as much as Batman and Robin I would.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Say, but that's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
A good point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
A full twenty I think of full twenties, not an
unreasonable gas.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
That's a good point too, Like there is this movie
and Batman and Robin are such a love letter, love
letter to the sixties Batman oh deeply yeah, like is
that's very clear most.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Of what culture knew right then, but it was genuinely.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
At a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
That's how they remembered him last.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Well, now how they remembered him last was Michael Keaton.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Like I know Keaton, but like this little era of
movies before that, there was the drought.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Yeah, it was you know deeply uh shifted in eighty
nine into this it's just as scampy. And people can
argu you with me about that, But Matt Keaton's and
Tim Burton's Batman were just as campy, just on the
different end of the spectrum. It's the opposite end of
the spectrum is just gritty and ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
And you know, overaw shot it's shot different, but you
cannot tell me, like, all right, So the Two Face
and Riddler scene where they Riddler crashes the party, that
is a masterclass in camp Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah, it
is the best way. It is the only way if
you want to do that scene in that manner, you

(01:09:32):
can't have done it anybody. He learned everything from the
sixties and he put a cherry on top.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
It was beautiful. Yeah, And a lot of ways, the
Keaton Burton movies are the last big blowout of the
uh industrial dark and gritty action movies, like where you
had just like these muscle bound dudes running around in
like sewers and yes, I'm thinking of Dolph Lungern and
The Punisher and you know they're you know, just steam

(01:09:59):
coming up from and you're not, what the fuck is
that like that? What is that steaming? Is that you're
in what are we talking about here? And you know,
there's just gritty bullshit and Batman comes out and just
blows everything out of the water. We're to the point
where it doesn't even have to be a muscle bound dude.
It's just a dude in a muscle bound suit. And well,

(01:10:21):
but that got so dark. Batman Returns got so macabre
that like McDonald's apparently literally said, we will not be
supporting another Batman movie with Tim Burton in charge.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Just imagine them in forties boys is insupportable. I won't
do it. It's just supid. Like the funny part THO
was like it changed tone a lot, But so they
had to be able to convince Like if you look
fundamentally at just the performance of like Danny de Vito
and Tommy lean Jones, Like just grab those two performances.
If I swapped them and shot them differently, there's no difference,

(01:10:57):
not really in the sense that they're like not a
difference in how far they're reaching to me, is what
I mean. Maybe like they're going for it, they're really trying.
They're you know, they're leaving some fucking blood on the
tracks here with the with the effort, and it's cartoonish
and in a certain way, and like, I think I
could throw Two Faces into the Returns University would have
been fine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Yeah, I think it just I think there's just a
fundamental difference on quality. Like Dana DeVito's Penguin is. I mean,
he's been raised by penguins, like he's a savage, he's
been living in the sewers. He's socially awkward, he's been
he's like a homeschool kid but with penguins, you know,

(01:11:36):
and uh Tomy Lee Jones. On the other hand, his
Two Face has no actual like he does at the
beginning of the movie say like, oh, the flip of
the coin the only true justice, and that's the end
of his interest in justice. Like we don't really get
any kind of emotional depth out of him. He's just
running around, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Being goofy, Which is another good point, being like he's
the main antagonist here right in theory because Riddler's whole
plot line circles around his.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I would say Riddler is Riddler's the main antagonist.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
He actually gets he's the main antagonist like screen wise,
but functionally he asks Two Face for permission to join
his plot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Yeah, well kind of he used two face the existing villain,
like he's just making power moves man like, well, yeah,
he gets from the back two faces.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Like, I don't understand why this movie happened if we
just like from two faces perspective, it's just very boring.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Also, Riddler was the only villain that carried over from
when Tim Burton was gonna do the movie. Two Face
was added later, so I feel like he gets short
shrift here though, because we see like, oh yeah, we
get like the Batman version of this where it's like, yeah,
Bruce is supposed to feel guilty about this because he
couldn't save Harvey. But which Also, by the way, I

(01:12:50):
think it's weird that the fucking news keeps calling him
Harvey two Face instead of Harvey Dent. He's still Harvey Dent, assholes,
like his name. He didn't change his name to two face,
Like that's just what the news are whoever supposed to
be calling him, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
I don't know, it's just one station did that a
couple of years ago and they all got in the
habit just a bad Yeah, it's one of those things
that happens after right, It's just weird.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
But yeah, I think we don't really get like an
emotional point of view for Harvey, like he's not over
here like mourning for him personally, like there is none
like he we know he was, you know, working the
Marony case and then you know sal Maroney or whoever
through the acid in his face.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
And late at the very end, the line I was
talking about was like, oh, you've always been a good
friend in what capacity I mean like and on the
one hand, I want to be like that should be impactful.
On the other hand, I guess he shrugs it off, like, well,
that's crazy. Why would he say something so strange to me?
I don't even know this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Well, he already knows he's Bruce, And you know, Bruce
and Harvey were friends.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Oh, I know, they know each other in the comics.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
In the animated series and everything. They are friends and
they knew each other. Not in this movie though, until
he says that at the end and insinuates that there
was a time where they were good friends.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Right, So like for the purposes of this movie, when
he says that, and like I was saying, nothing happens.
There is no result in this movie of him saying
what should be a shocking, deep final line, Like I
feel like someone wrote that in as like this is
gonna be where I really get somebody choked up in
the middle of the finale, you know, Yeah, Like that's
that's the beat I was going for here, and just
nothing surrounds it. It. I don't know what it's doing.

(01:14:22):
It's a cough in the wind.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
It's weird. It is just bizarre, a weird.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Just an eccentric choice they made. When I talk about
all the set design and there's a lot of this
film that's so pretty and I but then let's look
at the exception to my claim there. Why did they
use the fucking batpuppet all the time?

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
The batpuppet, the little the flying little.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Bat puppet's that's flying right at the camera perpetually.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Oh, the the memory batpuppet. Yeah, and in Bruce's memory, yeah,
in his brain.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
I have a better question.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Why was that choice made? It could have been a
million ways. You didn't have to use the same loop.
It looked like a weird, cheap loop.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
It did like it did.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
If that was pootage, you were going to use that often,
you didn't think to redo it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
It was weird getting past that visual.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
And in my head I remember it as the footage
from the sell video. Now I'm pretty sure I'm just
conflating a thirty year old memory.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Probably m I feel like the better question is in
that scene at the galla, Bruce walks up to the machine.
He says, how does it work? They tell him how
it works. He pulls out the little memory stick and
depowers the fucking machine. Mm hmm, the little green memory stick.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Yeah, and he's very proud about oh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
And then he walks in. He goes in to look around.
Sugar reaches into her purse, pulls out a different memory
stick and sticks it in. The machine turns back on.
Bruce does not seem to notice that suddenly the machine
is operating again. He actively shut it down so that
he could investigate it. And he walked in. The machine

(01:16:01):
came on, and he didn't move, he didn't leave, he
didn't go, oh shit, this isn't the right thing. He
stood there and it was just like, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
He just stands there for purely plot purposes first and
lets them like we didn't see suck with his back.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
The thing he's insisted this entire time was the worst idea.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
And you know you can say, well, you know, as
seen as early as Stickley. As soon as that beam
hits you, you're frozen there and you have no choice.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
But it have to be a Proassis situation.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
But he stood there for way too long, just looking
around after it came on, before the beam hit his head,
Like he could have just been like, oh wait, this
shit was depowered. It's not supposed to be on now,
let me get the hell away. It's just for plot purposes,
like you said. And it bugged me. It bugged me
way more than just seeing the bat. Also, they are
in fucking Gotham City. I would think bats are on

(01:16:56):
a lot of people's minds. Like there was no imagery
in his head that they captured that said, yes, this
motherfucker's batman. They're like, what kind of man has bats
on the brain? Every fucking body, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
I lived like three blocks from the University of Alabama
football stadium for a while. You have me bats are
in my life at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
It's think that thout thousands, like five digit thousands.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
You gotta imagine they love those lights. Yeah, and you
gotta imagine these poor doom scrolling Gothamites. Every time they
look at the newspaper, every time they see the television,
turn on a radio. All they're talking about is some
asshole who put on a mask and decided to blow
something up because they were waiting on Batman. Everybody's thinking
about Batman. Bats are on everyone's brain. Batman has fucking

(01:17:45):
ruined Gotham City. He shows up all of a sudden.
We got the Joker, then we got the Penguin, then
we got Catwoman running around, then we got Two Face,
now the Riddler. It's all Batman's fault.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
I've heard that case made in many a storyline before,
but this, this whole narrative does make it's point.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
It poignantly made this specific universe. Yes, yeah, but at
the very least, and from from make your standard the.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Case that you could scuttle Batman in Arkham in one
fell swoop and just it would all solve itself.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Oh, by the way, did you catch that? Like speaking
of that awful security guard. They they liked him enough
if they brought him back. When Batman crashes through the
skylight of that gala, for a second, you see the guard.
He's in a tux and he's just looking up going.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, yan, No, why whose brother is that? As my
daughter used to say, I can't like it. I have.
I have two qualms left on my list if I
could sure, if I could run through them with you. One,
I just want to know if if it was bad

(01:18:51):
for anybody else, if it was the the ad R
and the sound mix on this movie is a fucking nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
I don't mean it's bad. I mean it's bad in
the way that I don't think Shu micro gave a fuck.
I don't think he fucking finished like it. I genuinely
do not believe that someone heard this thing and went yep,
send it out the door, except in the most extraordinary
I can't unfuck this type of circumstances. But like it's
like the audio is literally off from their mouths on
several occasions, and like this, this happens a lot. Like

(01:19:21):
you'd say, dr it's all the time. You're gonna have
that for big scenes all the time. But like the
first one that it's like their first meeting, the one
where she's super thirsty. So they're in this crowd, the
crowd noise completely vanishes at one point in their conversation.
And I don't mean it's mixed low, because that would
have been the right call. I mean it's gone like
they've faded completely back in when they're done, you know,

(01:19:42):
mouthfucking each other.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
So like they get there, but that's after we've seen
her say her lines from what sounds like a telephone
several streets over from the studio.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
And then he says his lines, and I don't know,
I swear they pitched his voice down a couple of times.
I think, I'm I would almost really speculate that, but
like it was distractingly bad. I was wondering if it
was as bad for you, if I like, if I
was overthinking it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
But I'm just used to the sound of the movie.
I guess I didn't. Like you're talking about it, and
I'm like, yeah, I I can see that, Like I've
just used to the sound of the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
That's It's like it was bad enough that it would
like jerk my head to the left and right side
of the screen sometimes like I would. I would, it
would startle me slightly. Yeah, And it just didn't change.
Like I wrote, I wrote that note early on, like
hey is the adr as bad as I'm thinking it
is kind of thinking like I'm gonna drop this down
as Dave if I'm an idiot, and like there's a
follow up note later where I'm like, no, you were right,
this is fucked Like it just it stayed that way

(01:20:35):
the whole time. It was weird. But the other one
was sound related, and it was right at the end,
and I had written down like after that weird YouTube
song and then or that weird grunge you two sounding song,
and then you confirmed it apparently it was a YouTube song. Yeah,
I did not even know that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
It's my favorite You two song. I'm not a fan
of YouTube. I just like that song.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
I have like three that I can kind of get
along with, and that's not one that's in my cannon.
I didn't hate this one as much as I normally do.
Just not a YouTube fan, sorry, guys, But like I
just registered as like, oh, we're gonna do this, uh,
this weird YouTube song that's kind of very particular to
the time, Like that's not a song that I've heard
on the radio a ton. So then we do that.

(01:21:16):
The credits are shorter than I was thinking, and then
they just throw in kiss from a Rose. Like, it's
not even the full song, right, it's faded in in
the credits. It's you don't get the whole intro. You
don't get the fucking intro, just kiss from a Rose.
It's not faded in there, it's not part of it.
And then they just sort of fade out the end
of the song. Like the most enduring piece of this

(01:21:36):
movie is probably that song. Yeah, and it's just a
it's a byproduct at the.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
End, dude, and Seal was actually talking about because he
had released that song as a single years before and
it didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Oh, he had apparently made it years before that and
didn't and like didn't do enough to Like he didn't
even he couldn't even get off the ground to get
it made, Yeah, because it didn't want to. It was
just a thing he made that he thought was nice
and like kept it eventually got enough momentum to get
in the studio and then it didn't go anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
And tell this that, but he was like joking about
how like the final thing in the theater that you
hear before you leave on the soundtrack before they fade
out as him going babey, and he was like That's
what like sold it for everybody. Was just like like
leaving it on that bat high. They was like, baby,
uh it was. It was incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
I just kept it I the whole time I was
watching the movie in the back in my back pocket.
I was like, Yeah, it's gonna be cool to kind
of see the first time I see the song.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Yeah, more than anything in the actual movie, I feel
like that song and that music video sells you on
the romance between Bruce and Chase.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
It gave them any romance, Yeah, what romance? The film
is about them fucking each other. It's not romantic, right.
They show up and start throwing body parts at each
other verbally, and then later asked whim they did physically?

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Well, honestly, let's be fair. Like Batman is like, get
away from me, weirdo, because she's like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
He's off put by. She's like got romentous.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
She's over here in Nighty on top of the like
the police headquarters. Yeah, talking about my life's an open book.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
You read like yeah, and then she goes, I'm kind
of tripping with the laby.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
It's one of my least favorite lines. I'll bring the wine,
you bring your scard psyche.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
It's like, yeah, I kind of it crucks me up too,
because there's actually more about her internal psychology in the
movie than many other things in it. So like at
some point later toward that last break, you have this
moment where she has like a real realization about herself.
You know what it was, these kinds of guys in college.
I'm done with all that shit, Like she she matures.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
I guess that man in whatever have her idealized form
she had made him. That was her last big like
I'm gonna grow up now, fleeing that she was trying
to get out of her system.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Mm hmm. Now I do love this exchange. I've got
to talk about this exchange where Dick is saying all
I can think about every second of the day is
getting two face. He took my whole life, and when
I was out there tonight, I imagined it was him. I
was fighting even when I was fighting you, and all
the pain went away. Do you understand? And Bruce says yes,
I do, And Dick says good because you got to

(01:24:14):
help me find him, and when we do, I'm the
one who kills him. And the way Val plays this
shit Bruce, I don't know. It's just he gets this
air of seriousness about him. It says, so you're willing
to take a life and Dick says, as long as
it's two face, and Bruce says, then it will happen
this way. You make the kill, but your pain doesn't
die with Harvey. It grows. So you run out into

(01:24:35):
the night to find another face, and another and another,
until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that
revenge has become your whole life and you won't know why.
And Dick says, you can't understand. Your family wasn't killed
by a maniac, and Bruce says, yes, they were. Like
I love that exchange. It might be cheesy, but it
feels like straight out of Batman, the animated series.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
To me, it is on paper, it's the most Batman
scene there. And what I hated about it is like, well,
he's he's still He's just too old. It seems incredibly active.
It's just that he's too old to be doing it,
and it's so distracting to watch it because he's doing
a fucking great chot.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Years and years ago. I remember you saying on the
show O'donald's over here by including a fucking beer.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Dick's age gets it the way a bit,
but it got it got the way of that scene.
But it is Oh, it is incredible. It is a
great scene. It's great scene on paper, it's a great scene.
It's acted. But but it does have side effect. But
I also wondered, and one logistic part of that scene
he gets to the end is like, but you're not

(01:25:43):
the same Your parents weren't murdered. Yeah they were. And
no one in the entire United States does not know that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
No I can see it. That's a I would I
would argue.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
Me through it. But that's the point that I was
contingents one.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
I would argue that no one else out of Gotham
knows that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
I keep thinking that, like the playboy like there, because
there I know he's not just a Gotham playboy. Like
the billionaire playboy status of Bruce Wayne is supposed to
be a relatively internationally known thing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
But we're also talking about a thing that happened some
twenty years ago, right Bruce Wayne's parents. The thing that happened,
it was the thing that happened in Gotham, City twenty
years ago, purportedly says Dick is probably supposed to be
sixteen or seventeen here before Dick was born.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
Like, I'm trying to come up with some analogies about
like that. The first thing is, like I feel like
it would be like also a guy in San Francisco
not knowing who Milk was, Like it feels like a
piece of his of like a narrative of the history
that there's just no possible way you would not be.
I don't think you can live in Gotham and not
know that Bruce Wayne's parents died twenty years ago in
an alley. I just don't know if that's possible in

(01:26:47):
my worship.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Of this, Okay, but Dick has been in Gotham like
maybe a week. Okay, maybe traveling circus.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Man, it is a traveling circus. But I keep thinking that's.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Just And yet, I dude, I know people who were
in their late twenties about to turn third. Do you
who have no idea who Phil Hartman is.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
I mean, yeah, it's not it's not definitely not a
matter like slibberty status. It's just that, like I keep
thinking that that's an immutable law of the of the
I guess DC universes that everyone knows that that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
I think we all know as fans that had happened.
But in universe, man, young people don't know who Bruce
Wayne is and do we give a ship? They like,
that's that rich.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
I'm trying to protect like I'm trying to project it
into in universe as far as like who actually know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Like if you came to me and you said, tell
me about Paris Hilton, I'd be like, Oh, she's rich
and she had like a hotel or something. I don't know.
I don't know, and I was coming up while she
was famous. I know she had a sex date. That's
all I really know. I remember the good life or something.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
But it's like in real life, in this timeline with
actual versions of events, I feel like it's like saying,
you don't know that why the Beatles can't get a back?

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Simple? What was that show called with Nicole Richie?

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
I think I don't know what it was called.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Pitchfork's doing in the photo.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
Oh, I'm saying if her parents died, I wouldn't know
anything about it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
I have bad news about Lionel.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
I actually don't know, I have no idea exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
I think it's seeing as how he's like a kid
who did not grow up in Gotham. He does not
live in Gotham. He is he has you know, he
is rootless. He is a circus boy. He's supposed to
be sixteen or seventeen, despite the fact that you know
he has been too old for that for about twenty
years whatever. Like he what are he's supposed to be
is a selfish teenager whose family just got killed. He's

(01:28:30):
not from Gotham. He has no idea. Bruce Wayne is
a rich guy in Gotham.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's what he knows. Yeah, I could live
with it. I just it doesn't strike me. It strikes
me as something that I would write in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
I guess, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Can live with the idea that there are literally people
on that planet in that universe that don't know that.
But I guess in my in the sense of viewing
the scene, I can't live with the idea that Dick
Grayson doesn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
Mmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Okay, well in some way.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
I mean it's the same as like, it's just it's
within a slightly different context, right. But in Robin's reckoning
in the animated series when in the flashback when when
Dick is looking up at the picture of the Waynes
and Bruce comes in and explains to him, because they
have the same basic scene where he's like you can't understand,

(01:29:17):
and like Bruce is like, my parents were taken when
I was about your age, you know, and he's and
like young Dick is like, oh, like we're the same cool,
Like it's the same thing. It's just you're predisposed to
want to accept this one less because the movie sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Yeah, yeah, possibly, And I thought about two you were
just describing that, but as you're hitting the beats now,
I'm gonna ask you, like what percent is just because
it looks like they grafted you know, Grayson and Todd here,
like what what percent? Because it feels like they took
like a chunk of the jacent Todd personality and even
the stealing the car story, and then like took the
circus part and this is our Robin.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Oh yeah, there there there were chunks of all of them,
of the first three for sure, Like because if you say, like, although.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
There is one Tim Drake moment that really hit me
where he's like, no matter where you go, I'll be
there like, that's some Tim Drake energy. That's a Tim
Tim robble to sign my fucking self Robin and you
can do it whatever you want to do about it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
Absolutely, And Tim Drake was the one who found the
Batcave in the first place. Uh, he figured out who
Batman was.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Also, like, I admire that he was the one who
was like, no, I want the job and what all right?

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Well, am I crazy? Or was like see Jason Todd's
uh father was killed by two Face right in the books.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Yeah, I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Yeah, I think I think so. Jason Todd's father was
killed by two Face. He worked for two Face. He
was a henchman and he was killed by two Face.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
Definitely feels like a Jason Todd ords.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
So that's a that's that's part of that's part of that. Uh. Yeah,
I think they hit Dick. They just melded Dick, Jason
and Tim. Yeah. In this thing another weird whitewashing. Do
you remember that Marlon Wayne's was supposed to be Robin
and Batman returns?

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
No? Yeah, dude, I think I think you told me
that last time we did talk about that movie, and
every time you've told me that I'm like, what the
fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
So much so that he was under contract and he
still gets residuals. That's good. They cut him out of
the movie. They never even like filmed. I don't think
with him. But Neil uh Neil Adams said that the
reason they did the Tim Drake uniform and the fact
that you know they had him design it. He said
he was working with Tim Burton to try to make

(01:31:28):
update like the Robin costume for Batman Returns nice and
Tim was just like nope, though, still don't like it,
and they had moved on to a design where like
Robin was a mechanic, Marlon Wayne's Robin was a mechanic
and had a like a cover roll that had an
R on it, and that was their version of Robin.
And they still cut him. But yeah, odd, odd, like terrible, terrible,

(01:31:55):
uh contracts man, like you got him in a contract
so to the point where you you still have to
pay him for Batman Returns residuals even though his face
doesn't show up on the movie. He's not in the
movie at all. Okay, God, Warner Brothers, no wonder you're
such bitter bitches.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
Now they are it's it's just been whatever we've gotten
out of Warner Brothers over the years has just been
whatever mistakes managed to make their way to us. And
it it feels like we've gotten very little that was
purposely good. But I'll take what we got that was
accidentally good too.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
How come this is the only locked door in this museum?
What have you got back there? Masta Wayne's Dead Wives?

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Yeah, a line that I thought should have had more
more time to breathe.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
But yeah, I thought it was kind of perfect. It
was good man. I love Riddler telling to face that's
never gonna heal if you don't stop picking.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
That was good. Uh oh, I did have a last
question for h Yeah, to tie it into something that
happened years later, I guess I did not realize how
much it reminded me of just the the imagery and
and even kind of the the context of it being
dream like. I did not realize how much of the
dream sequence with the like you remember the diamond absolutes, scene.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
Diamond absolutes and the yes yess yes yeah bbs there
so like those few minutes there, like the like the
Big Bat, I mean the Big Bat.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
I was just kind of like the.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
You talk about you talk about Bruce falling down the well.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
Yeah, like theree is falling down the well. That, like
that imagery a lot very much reminded me of Batman
for everyone I was thinking about retrospectfully, Like, as I
was watching that and seeing like the bat scene there
and a little bit of the dreaming is here, I
just kept thinking, like, man, I feel like there was
some nods there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Everybody gives Batman Begins the credit for that, but Batman
forever did it first?

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Think so in kind of a dreaming context.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Yeah, absolutely, h I've gotta I've got to throw out
a few lines that I just love. Uh. Now, Riddler,
don't kill him. If you kill him, he won't learn nothing.
It's still funny, it does. It is, uh like the jacket.
It keeps me safe when I'm jogging at night.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
And that was one of the ones I remember just
being everywhere in my elementary school, middle whatever the hell was.
But then yeah, like that was the end of any joke.
He wanted it to be.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
Man. Uh So, here's here's a thing that I felt
like was a real mystery in the movie and when
I was a kid, and now I just think it's
a dumb sight gag, but I hate it. The Riddler
Zultar from Big He's got a fucking fortune teller machine
and Riddler does in his apartment question mark, uh huh,

(01:34:38):
And he's like running ideas by him where it's like
the Puzzler.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
The game Man, Captain Killer Yeah, yeah, which Captain Kill
is the only one that doesn't have anything to do
thematically with that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
But and it makes me laugh every time he says it. Also,
it's just so close to his character and kick ass.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
As a kid, I wondered, is this Zultear machine, Zultar
machine whatever? Is it? Sentient? It seems a little it
seems like it's actually answering him.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Mm. I always thought we have like a wet primitive AI.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Yeah, I kind of. I mean he's over here creating
a thing that he can beam ship into your brain
and extract information. I think he probably could have made
that machine AI.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
So you're talking about the Oh so the machine he
talked about this entire time was just an LLLM like
this was so he invented AI. So like the whole
the whole thing of messaging with just a large language model, right,
And and this This little thing was his little like
his version of you know, fucking Gemini.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
A right, the first version was a it was a
modified fortune teller in a Riddler suit.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Right right?

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Yeah. If we'd only kept this film out of Musk's hands,
changed so much, uh, I wouldn't have a sexy Grock
to deal with, to reckon with.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
I love that. Edward, by the way, is so obsessed
with Bruce and so angry that Bruce said no. But
it's totally Edward's fault.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
He blew it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
He blew it, He blew being a dick. Yeah, because
he's like, oh, my invention beams TV signal directly into
the human brain, stimulating neurons, manipulating brain waves. This device
makes the viewer feel like they're actually inside the show.
I do like the line. I do love the line
why be brutalized by an uncaring world? But then Bruce
is like, hold up, did you say manipulating brain waves?

(01:36:30):
And he he's a set up. He Bruce says, we'll
talk about this in a few days, set up a
meeting with my assistant. This shit's interesting, You've got a
good take. I'm curious what you're thinking. And then ed
is like, that's not gonna be good for me. I
need my answer now. I think I deserve it. Bruce
is totally within his rights to be like, oh but no,

(01:36:52):
this just sounds it raises too many questions. Dude, I'm sorry.
This is like you think he's just gonna go like, oh, absolutely,
let's put have it on the market by the end
of the week. Fuck you, dude, Like you've got to
actually have meetings about this, talk about what it is. Yeah,
so like this is like everybody talks about like what
you know, what what was the no going back moment
for Walter White and breaking Bad? And everyone gets it wrong.

(01:37:13):
The real answer is when he knew he had cancer
and his his friends who started that big company with
him all those years ago, gave him his job back
and with full medical and he said no out of pride.
That's when Walt Walter White had his big pride fall
where he was like, and this is exactly the same
thing where Nigma is going like, no, I know, I

(01:37:36):
got your attention, you want me set up a meeting,
but no, yeah, yeah. Watch By the way, I don't know,
I don't understand how this movie ends. I literally don't
know what.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
Happens the status of things when it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
Like I know the status of things when it's over,
but like I don't understand how they got as well,
Like cause it's like, oh, the watery grave and one's
going to fall through one hole and one's going to
fall through the other. And Batman is like, okay, but
I'm going to ask you a riddle and then throw
a batter ring into your thing.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
Yeah, and that somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:38:10):
And then I'm gonna jump and be able to save
them both.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
Oh, I think it just distracted him from hitting the
cane button.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
No they didn't. They literally show him hitting it twice, and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
I guess he destroyed the a with the eat batter rang. Yeah,
and it just it's somehow paused during the reset.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
The button didn't where I don't know. And like he
answers the riddle, he goes, there is no way for
me to save them or me. This is all one
giant death trap. And Riddler goes, oh, eh, yeah, you
know your answer has to be in the form of
a question. And he goes, well, wait, wait, wait, I
have a riddle for you, all right, So he asked
the riddle and then throws the thing into the into

(01:38:47):
the big green cone of course, of course, and then
you know, Carrie screams no and hits the button twice,
and they just they had said over and over again,
like there's no way to save them both. Well he
does anyway. He saves them.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Both the SX malfunction.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
He just said, you know, there's no way for me
to save them more of myself. Then he saves both
of them. Yeah, directly after and then like walks up
to the twitching like brain swollen, uh enigma. It's like,
poor Edward, I had to save them both before you see.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
Yeah, the answer to your riddle was to do everything anyway.
Like actually my favorite in that moment. I'm sorry I
was starting to anticipate lines, but like he's like, your
answer was it? Like your answer has to be in
the form of a question, and I fully expected him
to go, Okay, is this the death trap?

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
I would have paid two extra dollars at the theater
for that ship ye if Yeah, I'm both Bruce, Wayne
and Batman, not because I have to be, but because
I choose to be. Okay, yeah, over.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
It as a reflexive thing. Now I'm very happy, but
I didn't get to go through that emotional ark with
you at all. The pretty lady told you some insightful
stuff that I can't tell if you're internalized or not,
because you did some of the other internalization off screen,
I guess, And I don't. I don't know where you
are with that man. I don't know where you are
with this lady. I don't know if you're trusting her
listen it. I don't know. And then you seem to

(01:40:17):
shut the whole thing down over this one dude or
that tried to hijack your your your whole thing. And
I don't know, I don't know what is motivation, sir.
You're screaming batman because the kid's about to die.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
And I also, I feel like any criticism of this movie.
Whenever I hear anyone complain about this movie, myself included,
I just hear Jim Carey saying, shut up, how's my mole? Yeah,
because it is all about Jim Carrey showmanship. Anything else
in this movie? Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
Oh, I wanted a little trivia or do you want
to go?

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
I could do the trivia if we do a quick break.

Speaker 2 (01:40:53):
Okay, let's do a quick break and uh at the
two hour mark. Yeah, and because.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
I do come back for a little like that's stinger trivia.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
Yeah, a little bit of trivia, all right, see in
a minute. Yeah yeah, alright, anymurre back and uh man,
we got some trivia here. Talked a little bit more
about Batman forever. Uh So Michael Keaton met with Joel
Schumacher and uh said, no, didn't like the direction. Said

(01:41:22):
the idea of using two face, sorry, said the idea
of lightening up and brightening it up and being more
of a cartoon was of no interest to him. Uh
but yeah, like Tim Burton, that was part of this
weird little trivia patch. For some reason, Tim Burton was
considering making the third Batman movie and Riddler was gonna
be the only villain, and that carried over. I just

(01:41:44):
think they were just like, oh, well, this is clearly
a great idea. Got to use the Riddler. Who else
we gonna use? He's kind of next up, right, Yeah? Yeah,
you look at the like the sixties series. Hey you
look at that movie, the movie the villains were Joke, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler,
Riddler was up.

Speaker 5 (01:42:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:05):
William Baldwin, Alec Baldwin, Daniel da Lewis, Kurt Russell, Ethan Hawke,
Ray Fine, Tom Hanks, Keanu Reeves, and Johnny Depp were
all considered to play Batman.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
That's such a weird list again, though, I just there's
some names on there that just don't like Tom Hanks.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
Yeah, Chumacher decided after watching Tombstone that it was gonna
be Val Kilmer. And but look, you know, you say
Tom Hanks, but I think Tom Hanks could have killed it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
People killing whatever he's in, because he's great at his job.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
But like people scoffed the same way about Michael Keaton.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
Yeah, I don't think that's the same.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
I mean I get the flavoring, but I feel like
that's different.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Guy with dark curly hair who was in mostly comedies
at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Now, Sam, I'm the wholesomeess, Sam registering like also the
like people thought that Keaton just wasn't like a sharp,
edgy like Al Kilmer looks at least like he's supposed
to look like a big, you know, Batman billionaire playboy.
Keaton looked too rounded, too too odd. He wasn't supposed
to be like a sharp, handsome thing, nor was he

(01:43:11):
I don't know over the top, like like Tom Hanks
is tam two damn cuddly. Oh no, he's rounded and nice.
The niceness, I guess is what's creeping in at least
like Keaton has an edge. Keaton has a like I
could look at him and I feel like that's a
man who like might hit somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Look at the look at the uh, the intensity and
depth and the green mile, look at the the his
insidious phenomenal. I'm just say of his character and the
Lady Killers, I think he's got something in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
I've been thinking about way too much.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
Reasony. I think he's got something.

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
I can absolutely do whatever you put in front of him.
It's not that it's just that I'm still going to
perceive him a certain way. It's why it's called casting.

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
Sure, sure, sure, I get you. I'm also just like
violently against Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
Know, like that's the that's the eternal kind of room.
You want to push it and get out of your way.
But like there's there's I you know, even if I'm
one of the people wants to push sometimes too, there's
gonna be a part where I'm like, yeah, that's too far.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Though, Yeah, and I'm like over here, like, no, does
Lisa Bone want to do it? Fuck it, let's bring
her in roll it, let's do it. Let's see what
she's got, you know, give it a shot. Yeah. I
probably won't say yes, but I want to see it.
I'm still a fan.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
I would love to know what economy we live in
with your your Emperor, your Emperor instincts occasionally popping out,
like you'd have like twelve different at the time, fifty
plus million dollar budget. How much how much was this movie?

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
No, dude, I would just have total it was one
hundred It was one hundred million.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
About a hundred eight. You'd probably happily throw two billion
dollars worth of takes at it, Like, let's do these
twelve actors.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
Yeah, I'm Jane in Serenity.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
If you had straight run the world money.

Speaker 2 (01:44:45):
You know, you remember in Serenity where they from Alas
like get rid of the grenades, you don't need them. Yeah,
and uh and then I can't remember. I think the
line was for robbing the place, not occupying it. Yeah. Yeah,
but his his answer to that was I get excitablest
a choice. Yeah, That's why I have such a hard

(01:45:06):
time ordering when we go to a restaurant. Man. Yeah,
like ooh uh. Val Kilmer was literally in a bat
cave in Africa when he found out he was gonna
be playing Batman. He was research for the Ghost in
the Darkness, and he accepted the role without reading the script,
which I think is evident. You've seen all of Val
Kilmer stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
Yeah, okay, sure, but like, what am I gonna do
judge him? Oh, you can tell me right now that
I've been cast, and it like you could just like
if Gun just sent a letter and said you're in this,
I would I wouldn't get to the end of the sentence.
Mm hmm, I wouldn't. Oh yeah, gritty funk off.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
I'm going absolutely uh So. Kilmer and Schumacher clashed during
the filming. Schumacher described Kilmer as quote childish and impossible.
According to Schumacher, Kilmer refused to talk to him for.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
Two weeks, but it's got to make for a nod set.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
Despite a poor working relationship, Schumacher later said that he
felt Kilmer still gave a good performance as Batman and
said he was the best actor to portray the character
out of the four films of that time. Bob Kane,
co creator of Batman, said in a sin Escape interview
that Val Kilmer had given the best interpretation among all
the actors to play Batman up to that time. Joel
Schumacher said in an interview about Val Kilmer, Val did

(01:46:19):
me two great favors. When I wanted him to be Batman,
he said yes. Then he created a situation which allowed
me not to have him play Batman again. They were
both happy, happy instances for which I will be grateful.

Speaker 1 (01:46:32):
That is such a weird thing. The only time I
loved you more than when I met you was when
you were leaving.

Speaker 2 (01:46:39):
For Robin's casting, Leonardo DiCaprio turned down the role because
he didn't like Schumacher's direction. He was reported that Christian
Bale had auditioned for the role of Robin but lost
out to Chris O'Donnell, and then Christian Bale himself said
that it was rubbish. I'd never go out for bloody Robin. No.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
Christian Bell came back an interview and said, I'm glad
they didn't cast me. I would have looked too old.
Who did they cast again?

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Wait? What? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
Forget?

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
I said that Mark Wahlberg was considered, Matt Damon, Jude Law,
Ewan McGregor, Corey Haim, Corey Feldman, Toby Stevens, Scott Speedman,
Alan Cony. Uh uh, Michael Worth was a was a show, sorry,
a runner up to play Robin.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
And by the way, when they say considered, I love
that how much? Wait is that word?

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
Oh? I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Over coffee over cocaine?

Speaker 2 (01:47:32):
Weirdly, uh, Ronoldi Santiago said in an interview that he
was he auditioned for the role of Robin and he
didn't get it, but he was. You know. It led
him to being cast in Hackers, So that's weird and fun.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
But uh see the guy who looks like Chris adnald
As and Hackers?

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Yeah probably.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Renee Russo was originally cast as doctor Chase Meridian when
Michael Keaton was still attached to the project, but when
when he dropped out, they were they replaced her because
she was deemed too old to play Val Kilmer's love interest.
I see, I think like looking at her at the time,
I always say she looked a little too old to
play Keaton's love interest.

Speaker 1 (01:48:12):
I don't I gotta look her up now. Oh, I realized.

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
Thor's mom Thor's mom in the Thor movies.

Speaker 1 (01:48:20):
Yeah, like, oh yeah, I remember where I saw her
at first. Yeah, I don't know that she looks I
guess she does play a little bit older on screen.
Although I did realize something about Nicole Kidman watching this movie.
She's I don't think she's not like it because she
looks the same. Yeah, from which I think it's just
that back then we didn't know in context that she was,

(01:48:43):
that she looked so much older than she does.

Speaker 2 (01:48:45):
Like you think Nicole Kidman looks the same now as
she did back then.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
I think she looks creepily similar to her younger self.
Like she's one of these people who's aged incredibly well.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
But she does, really she has not.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
The last time I saw she was doing great well.

Speaker 2 (01:48:59):
I need you to look at a timeline back to back,
see her aging gracefully, incredibly gracefully.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Is there a turn here that I've missed it?

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
And then all of a sudden Nicole Kidman, uh going
out of her mind with plastic surgery.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
And LiPo so not liposuction, god, uh botox and that
we just reshaped the landscape. That'll do a lot, Yeah,
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:49:24):
Differently this uh, this weird gross movie she's in where
she's like seducing this like really young guy, Like I
can't remember what it's called baby Girl or something like that. Uh,
she just she just looks like a skeleton wearing a
skin mask right now. Like it's so creepy. It's so creepy.
It's I'm sorry, I gotta We're not supposed to body
shame and whatnot, but like, please a moment for aging gracefully.

(01:49:47):
Can we please bring that back? It's okay, Yeah, I
swear to god.

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
I do prefer that trend. I think that one is
the healthier option, you know. Yeah, But like I just
when I looked at her then I realized, like she
has one of those faces where she she doesn't look
young there, she just looks timeless there, Like she doesn't
look like she's twenty or forty five, right, and like
short of the film grain, I wouldn't be able to
tell if you'd shot this fifteen years later she'd looked

(01:50:12):
the same.

Speaker 2 (01:50:12):
Yeah. Well, she went through a phase where like about
the point where I noticed it was when she did
that movie where she had the kids who were allergic
to the sun or something.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
I don't remember that funny premise you do or don't
remember it?

Speaker 2 (01:50:26):
Do not? Okay, where she was just like she had
just gotten really really super thin, and I felt like
I'd really started to show some age.

Speaker 1 (01:50:35):
Maybe I do remember her being kind of like tropishly
abused by comedians a long time ago for just being
rakishly thin.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And it was this was like
post eyes wide shut, and everyone was kind of like hahaha,
fuck you. After that, it was the Tom Cruise of
it all. You know, Yeah, she's gonna get some.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
She's gonna get some flak, the Tom Cruise of it all. Yeah,
that's a good way of putting it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
I didn't really mind the thinness, was just like, oh,
she is still gorgeous. She's just you know, I just
I she's finally aging. This was my take on it
back in the day where I was like, oh, from
like you know, the eighties to you know, sometime very
late nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
It's interesting a photo of someone you're like, oh, it
caught up to you, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
Yeah, like, oh, okay, well we're finally getting a little
crow's feet. Cool, cool, cool, waiting on your on your
you know, uh, Meryl Street era. Yeah, I don't know,
and things then things got weird with surgeries. Yeah, but yeah, dude,
Renee Russo though, I feel like going back to her,

(01:51:40):
like I always feel like, I feel like she always
looked like she was just on the cusp of sixty
years old. She's looked like about that age for about
thirty years. To me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
Yeah, some people's it's it's it's like that static look
that they have. Like some I feel like a lot
of people just look a certain way for like twenty
of the sixty or eighty years they're here, just a
giant chunk of it. You kind of look the sameish, Yeah,
And that might be between twenty and forty, it might
be between forty and sixty. For for your personal growth

(01:52:10):
as a human, I don't know which one it's gonna be,
but somewhere in there, you're gonna look about the same
for a giant chunk of a couple of decades, and
for some people that's like forty years.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
No weird. I had the terrifying thought the other day
that I might not be there yet.

Speaker 1 (01:52:23):
I was like, it's a final, uglier form that should
be a final form, which.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
Will be in my final form for the longest time,
you know, because like I've looked, oh you know, I've
lost a lot of my hair, you know, pretty thick. Yeah,
but I was like, oh god, what if this isn't
the worst? It gets like it won't be, but like,
for sure, what if this is just one of the transitions.
But what if like the longest stretch like deep that's
meaningful for like a good like forty fifty year stretch.

(01:52:48):
I just looked like this one awful thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Like I'm just job of the hut. Yeah, that's rare.

Speaker 1 (01:52:58):
It's got a if my theory is right, it's got
a suck to be kind of constantly moving and being
like forty and thinking, Okay, well, I guess this is
kind of where I'm going to be for a while,
and then get to like forty five just to find
out that no, there was one last turn on that
fucking bingo will as it was spinning, Yeah, and this
one's not as kind and that was your Actually that's
where you're gonna be for a little while.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
Yeah, congrats, it's not my final form, but oh my god,
Sandra bullock off.

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
For a couple of recessive genes to click in before
we've blocked this thing in.

Speaker 2 (01:53:26):
Sandra Bullock and Cindy Crawford were considered for the role
of Chase Meridian, and so we're Jean Triplehorn, Linda Hamilton
and Robin Wright. Linda Hamilton Really okay, I've been right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:37):
That would have been a very different energy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:39):
Yeah. Absolutely, She's like, I'll bring the wine, you bring
your Scott Psyche.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
Yeah. Yeah, like on the rooftop calling Batman, not in
lingerie but in gear, ready to team up.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53:51):
She pulls off the robe. It's she's got throwing knives, stat.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
Yeah, lights, a cigarette. I'm an open book. You read.

Speaker 1 (01:54:03):
Just the first scene in the crowd is just her
saying I'm gonna fuck you first and then fight with
you or fight you.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
I don't know, I don't know. Oh so yeah, Like
I said before, Joel Schuenbacher hated the idea of Billy D.
Williams bought out his contract. Basically weird, uh, Joel Joe
Peshy was considered for the role. Just another weird why uh?

(01:54:29):
He wanted He wanted mel Gibson, but there were scheduling
ti mel Gibson would have work scheduling conflicts with Brave
Heart though he couldn't do it, and then uh, he
wanted He says, Tommy Lee Jones was his first choice,
but apparently Tommy Lee Jones turned it down because he
was like, I'm not gonna do some kind of fucking
Batman thing. And then Tommy Lee Jones's son Austin was like, dude,

(01:54:54):
two faces of my favorite character, you have to play him,
which I am like, what was this kid? Why actually
that two face was his favorite character?

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
Was he actually reading?

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
We didn't have to be Batman the Animated series. I mean,
I mean it would have had to have been Batman
Animated series, right if he was watching something. I mean, yeah,
there was no more interesting version of that character than
Batman the Animated series, like btas came in and fixed
that character.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
Yeah, pretty much, totally. Yeah, I guess it would have
to be. But even then, would it have hit by
that because they felt they're just putting this together in
ninety three? Didn't that come out of ninety two?

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
This came out in ninety five.

Speaker 1 (01:55:28):
The film came out ninety time. But they Tommy the
Jones and either would have been reading script into the
last year in like ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:55:32):
Three, But B Task came out in ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
Yeah, that's just a real quick window. And I don't
think the episodes with Harvey were like, well, I know,
the really good like the damn really good ones word.

Speaker 2 (01:55:41):
Yeah, well well we could see b Task two face
part one? Wait did he come out? Ask whatever you're
using since Google died air date September twenty fifth, nineteen
ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:55:58):
Two okay, cool, yes, yes, and.

Speaker 2 (01:56:01):
That dude two face part one and two, like nahra,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:56:07):
I do love the idea. It's not just because you know,
you like to think about things as being like slightly
like societal or like a big intangible narrative about like yeah,
you know, like this character got into the to the
zeitgeist a little or some shit like yeah, like they
fixed it and it showed up here, and this is
where you started seeing the character. But everybody talks about
it in these vague terms, right. I'd like the idea

(01:56:28):
that every once in a while it's like, yeah, no,
this guy's kid liked it and that's why you saw
this version here. Mm hmmm, here's the actual like inflection
point where.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
I wish I had video of the kids seeing it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:38):
Yeah, but that's the most plausible version of events is that, Yeah,
the kids saw this fucking incredible version on bt AS
and and learned about it later. And the next thing,
you know, we have Tommy Lee Jones doing a version
that was an influenced directly.

Speaker 2 (01:56:51):
Well I want yeah, I want to see like the
kid watching Tommy Lee Jones do this and then looking
at him going, what did you do?

Speaker 1 (01:56:57):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
Yeah? This is awful? Dad, Yeah, let me show you
the episode. Oh tell you that would have been a
lot better, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
Yeah, yeah, what do you watch? Let me see it? Like,
can you just say like you're timing the Jones sees
that like before his kid goes to see the movie,
just sitting down in the center. I have to explain
some things to you about how Hollywood works. You don't
get you you don't get what you want in this town.

Speaker 2 (01:57:16):
Okay, all right, Aaron, let me show you how to
punch a guy. You ball up your fist, reach way back,
just punch yourself in the face. That's what That's what
Hollywood is.

Speaker 1 (01:57:26):
That's what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:57:27):
That's all this happens.

Speaker 1 (01:57:29):
Do that stupid trick from Reacher?

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
Yeah, yeah, sounds like dad, how could you have made
such a terrible, terrible version of two face? He says,
I'm innocent to because I don't care. Yeah, all right,
I'll stop.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
You flip a coin and see if I respect you again.

Speaker 2 (01:57:44):
Yeah. Uh. Steve Martin was the second choice for Riddler
after Robin Williams.

Speaker 1 (01:57:49):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
Uh, but he said no. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
He was still in good enough shape probably, but that
wasn't the end of that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:56):
Well, Martin was not. He wasn't okay with it. He
was like an bad place. He wasn't making movies. He
was too sad to make movies because John Candy died
and he just got a divorce. He literally said he
was too sad to make any movies. Michael Jackson lobbied
to play the Riddler, but was turned down. Fussy Matthew
Broderick wanted to do it, but you know, Joel Schumacher
was set on Jim Carrey.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
That's the best decision he made.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:58:20):
Absolutely did every other bad decision, and there were many,
was survivable as a result of that one good one
that he that he made.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
M Christina Applegate, Melissa Joan Hart, and Tara Reid were
all considered for the role for the role of Sugar,
who went to Drew Barrymore. Eventually, Jennifer Tilly and Gina
Gershawn were considered for the roles of Sugar and Spies.
Jenny McCarthy turned down the role of Sugar. Renee aubujin Waugh,
who played Odo in Space nine, was Doctor Burton, the

(01:58:51):
wild haired doctor in Arkham Asylum. Elizabeth Sanders, who played
Gossip Gerdy in both this movie and the next, was
married to Bob Kine. They say he had Ocami on
the film, and I've read that for years. I've never
been able to find him. And weirdly, Nicole Kimman had
previously been considered for the role of Catwoman apparently, and

(01:59:14):
Batman returns now. In the original script, Two Faces Thugs
was female thugs, Sugar and Spice. They were called Lays
and Leather.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
A little on the nose even for this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Yeah. In early drafts of the film, Riddler's name was
Lyle Heckendorf instead of Edward Nigma, and his rival company
was called heck Tech instead of Enigma Tech, probably because
they were like Enigma, that's dumb, Let's call him something else.

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
Heckendorf is going to fix that.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
A scene in the early drafts that didn't make it
into the final film featured Lyle stalking Bruce at the
circus and stealing the clothes of a performing circus Leprechaun.
The leprechnsuit then formed the basis for the Riddler outfit.
Oh no, it could have been so much worse, Jason.

(02:00:10):
After the Batmobile rides up the wall to escape from
two Base, there was going to be a car chase
on the rooftops of Gotham. M hm. Due to time
and money constraints, this idea was scrapped.

Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
It was pushed back to Dark Knight Rice, but then
it was.

Speaker 2 (02:00:22):
Pushed back to Batman and Robin.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
They're literally driving across statue arms And actually it happened,
and Batman begins as well. Joel Schumacher won and Nicole
Kidman to play Poison Ivy, but he decided that Ivy
to face and Riddler would be too many villains.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
Yes, yeah, good call there.

Speaker 2 (02:00:41):
Jim Carrey's By the way, Nicole Kidman is Poison Ivy.

Speaker 1 (02:00:46):
I'm sure it would have killed you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:47):
Oh yeah, yeah. Jim Carrey's original idea to shave a
question mark into his scalp had to be scrapped since
he was due in court to finalize his divorce.

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
Uh huh, early just just did the one on his
side of his head or something. Yeah, yeah, now that
would have made sense for that last thing. That hair
was weird anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:01:08):
Yeah yeah, but like puled cat dude, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:12):
What did he go to courton? If that was anyway?

Speaker 2 (02:01:15):
Early concepts of the Final Showdown on Claw Island had
a huge, muscled Riddler sitting on his throne. When Batman
finds him, the Riddler twists the two skulls on his armrest,
and the Riddler's muscle body is revealed to be a
shell which splits in two, from which the real Riddler,
wearing his white and green jumpsuit, steps out. This description
made it into the junior novelization of the movie by

(02:01:37):
Alan Grant, and was also featured in the video game
based on the movie. I remember that it was weird
at the time. I don't know why that was even
ever a thought, that's why. Uh. This is the only
version of Top of two Face that does not have
a bulging eyeball and exposed teeth on the on the
left side Rick Baker, the makeup artist, wanted to portray

(02:01:57):
those iconic qualities early in the design process, but Warner
Brothers vetoed him again, Why well, probably because of kids
and happy meals.

Speaker 1 (02:02:08):
Then don't use him.

Speaker 2 (02:02:10):
Joel Schumacher originally one ed too, I know, right. Joel
Schumacher originally wanted to make a much darker and more
serious film that would have more fully explorer Bruce Wayne's
growing fear that his crusade to be Batman had done
more harm than good and that Bruce was beginning to
suffer from burnout. But the executives that Barner Brothers insisted
on a lighter tone. The original cut was three hours
long and much darker, heavily exploring Bruce Wayne's psych sorry

(02:02:32):
psyche and guilt. The first part of that film was
edited extensively to begin with an action sequence. The DVD
features the original opening scene, which was two faces escaped
from Arkham Asylum and yeah, he slits a guy's throat
and writes some blood. The Batman's die, by the way
on the wall, way darker.

Speaker 1 (02:02:48):
This was still no motivation for it, but okay.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
This was to lead to Bruce Wayne's visit to his
business offices and the bat signal he saw there was
meant to lead him to leave the office in order
to suit up for the fight at the bank. By
the way, that like thing that he sets in that
he like slides off of his office chair into that
little like elevator pod that slides into the batcave from
his office, the dope as hell chair. Yeah, so cool.

(02:03:15):
I have no idea how that would actually work in the.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Room, but I saw very little of the last of
the scene following it. It took me a couple of
minutes to catch up. I was going through designs of
how you could do that. That would be so much fun.

Speaker 2 (02:03:25):
But Batman the animand series did it too, so I
can't really bitch it was cool then too.

Speaker 1 (02:03:29):
Yeah. Uh would install today if I got the chance.

Speaker 2 (02:03:35):
Yeah, sorry, And then that would have follow been followed
by Enigma's experiment on Stickley. Batman's meeting with Chase at
the bat Signal was actually much later in the film,
just before the scene where the batmobile scales the side
of the apartment building. Chase's reference to two Faces coin
at the bank was originally a reference to the circus.
The original sequence of the first part of the film
is featured in the comic book adaptation as well as

(02:03:57):
in the tie in novelization, Yeah they man, this is
like the Affleck Daredevil, Like they just played health or
Skelter with the scenes and changed them all around. After
Schumacher died in twenty twenty, writer Akiva Goldsman had seen
a work print of Batman Forever called Preview Cut one
which he said that's very dark and had a psychological

(02:04:18):
exploration of guilt and shame, and he saw it at
Warner Brothers. Kevin Smith had a copy of the November
nineteen ninety four work print on a thumb drive given
by Joe Black, and he showed it at his theater,
Smadcastle Cinemas, and he said, it's a better cut of
the movie. It was two hours and thirty five minutes,
and rather than start with the action sequence, it starts
with two face breaking out of Arkham Asylum with the
words that bat must die. It has Jon Favreau with

(02:04:41):
lines as Bruce Wayne's stockbroker. It still has the Elliott
golden Thal Batman Forever March like in the theatrical cut,
but the rest is timp score, consisting of Goldenthal's own
scores for Alien Three, Demolition Man, and Interview with a Vampire,
as well as well as Danny Elfman scores for Batman,
Pee's Big Adventure, Batman Returns, Beetle Juice, and Edward Scissorhans Dude,
I want the proper like three hour cut, That's what

(02:05:03):
I want. Yeah, I want to see that.

Speaker 1 (02:05:06):
I would love to see what this was before it
got chopped up for a happy mill mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (02:05:11):
John McTiernan was approached to direct, but he declined in
favor of doing Diehard with a Vengeance. This is the
second film in history to cost one hundred million dollars
after True Lies.

Speaker 1 (02:05:20):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (02:05:21):
Sam Raimi was at one point considered to direct. Unlike
Tim Burton, Schumacher was a Batman fan, and he originally
wanted to do a prequel based on Frank Miller's Batman.

Speaker 1 (02:05:29):
You're one mm that tracks.

Speaker 2 (02:05:32):
Dude, have you seen the number twenty three? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:05:35):
Long time ago, but yeah that was a Joel Schumacher movie.

Speaker 2 (02:05:39):
Go back and look at how like new Ah that
shit is like I could, dude, Schumacher does some dark shit.

Speaker 1 (02:05:44):
I believe it. The I mean yeah, he basically does
the year one scene over and never again with that
stupid bat puppet anyway, So he got any sense?

Speaker 2 (02:05:54):
Yeah, let's see the screenwriters Lee Bachelor and and At
Scott Batchley, the initial screenwriters Goldsman came in. Later stated
that they read the nineteen thirty nine to nineteen forty
comics by Bob Kin and Bill Finger, the then contemporary
night Fall story arc, and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight
Returns for inspiration. All find inspirations. Somehow, they only translated

(02:06:16):
the nineteen forties comics just weird. Yeah. According to Mark Hamill,
director Joel Schumacher watched the flash episode Trial of the
Trickster repeatedly for inspiration. M Yeah, yeah. Frank Gorshan, who
played The Riddler in nineteen sixty six, was one of

(02:06:36):
Jim Carrey's favorite actors growing up. This is funny. Exterior
scenes of Wayne Manner were filmed at the Web Institute
of Naval Architecture on Long Island. The production team had
to change the school's w on the entrance gate because
it had an anchor behind it? Can we keep the anchor?
I like? I like it? Yeah? Oh god, that would

(02:06:57):
have been weird.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
The trivia is revealing more and more that I think
I'm right earlier that what was good about this movie
was a series of accidents.

Speaker 2 (02:07:09):
Oh dude, the scene where Bruce breaks down the door
to Chase his office, Yeah, because she think he thinks
she's getting hurt or whatever. That wasn't in the original script,
like him doing that. The sequence was reimagined because Nicole
Kidman was very passionate about kickboxing and asked Joel if
they could find a way to incorporate this element into

(02:07:31):
the character.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
Why what the fuck was she trying to start like
an action career?

Speaker 2 (02:07:37):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:07:38):
That was that her way of just trying to see
that in like, ah, yeah, she looks pretty good punched
on screen. Do we get anything? That sounded the logical
thing I think of everything else is just the craziness
of like, I love this right now? Can you put
it in the movie?

Speaker 2 (02:07:48):
Yeah? That was the real reason it took that anchor
off of the w because they have enough anchors on
this fucking movie already. Yeah, dragging it down. First film
appearances of Arkham, Asylum, and Wayne enterprises in a live
action True Nicole Kidman recalled the reaction to her casting
as Chase Meridian. Everyone was like, why are you doing that?
And I'm like, because I get to kiss Batman.

Speaker 1 (02:08:11):
It's a funny lie. That's good. It's fine. It's a
good enough reason I would do it to kiss Batman.
That sounds fantastic.

Speaker 2 (02:08:16):
Sure, yeah, Okay to say that the only person doing
any actual good work here in this movie, aside from
Jim Carrey just being Jim Carrey Bruce Wayne. Val Kilmer
reflected to get into the character of Bruce Wayne remembering
the death of his parents. Val Kilmer reflected upon the
recent death of his own father. Hmm okay, Like Jim
Carrey was doing his thing, but like I do feel
like Val Kilmer and Michael Goff were the only believable

(02:08:38):
people in this movie.

Speaker 1 (02:08:40):
Yeah, but what so annoying about that was they were
telling this weird, slightly real story every once in a
while where you were like distracted by like why it's
just strange, man. It was like somebody getting serious in
the middle of all this was a non sequitur mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (02:08:57):
Here here's a weird thing, and I don't remember. I
only remember a reference in eighty nine to it. This
is the only film in Tim Burton or Joel Schumacher's
Batman series without a single mention of a beauty in
the beast metaphor. I only remember eighty nine where Joker says,
as he's dancing with Vicky, beauty and the beast. Of course,

(02:09:18):
if anyone else calls you beast, I'll rip their lungs out.

Speaker 1 (02:09:21):
I didn't even register that as a beauty and the
beast metaphor. He just says the words beating the beast
before saying something strange.

Speaker 2 (02:09:29):
Well, yeah, this is a good one. According to Jim Carrey,
he did not get along with Tommy Lee Jones, who
told Carry he hated him.

Speaker 7 (02:09:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:09:42):
Carrie later surmised that it was because at the time,
Carrie's blockbuster Dumb and Dumber was released the same week
as Jones's passion project Cobb, and it financially eviscerated Cobb
and moved the film's recognition into obscurity. Carry explained Jones
was a little crusty about this because of Cobb. It
was his big swing for the Fences, But he did
he said that. He said he visited Jones in a

(02:10:03):
restaurant cheerfully approached the table and said, Hey, Tommy, how
you doing? Only for Jones to turn pale, began visibly shaking,
quote like he had been thinking of me for twenty
four hours. The blood just strained, it would just drained
from his face in such a way that I realized
I had become the face of his pain or something.
He started shaking and he got up like he was
in mid kill me fantasy, hugged me and said I

(02:10:25):
hate you. I really don't like you. And I said, gee, man,
what's the problem. And I pulled up a chair, which
probably wasn't smart, and he said, I cannot sanction your buffoonery.
I just love I man, I love alone at the time,
Tommy Lee Jones, man, he is absolutely the kind of
guy to say I cannot sanction your buffoony.

Speaker 1 (02:10:44):
Yes, yeah, that feels right.

Speaker 2 (02:10:46):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (02:10:46):
But like Jim Carrie was a lot. Man was it
was a lot. He for a long time. He felt
like a weirdo that not even everyone like, even in
this fantasy the thing called Hollywood. When I was a kid,
like you didn't feel like he was of there. He
was doing whatever this was to them. Mm hm, I
mean was like ten years old. You had some sense

(02:11:07):
of that.

Speaker 2 (02:11:09):
Yeah. It was reported that clashes between Tommy Lee Jones
and Jim Carrey were so annoying that Joel Schubacher said
he would never work with either of them again. He lied.
They went on to work with Kry later, but.

Speaker 1 (02:11:25):
Carry countered with what if Tommy's not there?

Speaker 2 (02:11:27):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
You got me?

Speaker 2 (02:11:28):
Ah, you dirty dog.

Speaker 5 (02:11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
So the Batman bill always driven by stunt drivers, except
Chris O'Donnell insisted on driving it, and he crashed it
into the curb and deded it. Of course, apparently Will Schwartz,
the puzzle master on National Public Radio and editor of
the New York Times Crossword Puzzle, created all of Riddler's
riddles in this movie.

Speaker 1 (02:11:51):
I don't think he was required for that. Ye, I
don't know who we needed to pull him in. I mean,
he's a legend, I know, I don't know if he
was required for this. I have to show off that talent.

Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
The riddles were not great.

Speaker 1 (02:12:05):
No, a clock a match. I don't think he would
be super thrilled if this was the example that he
was known by.

Speaker 2 (02:12:11):
Tear one off and scratch my head.

Speaker 1 (02:12:13):
Yeah, the clock face thing.

Speaker 2 (02:12:15):
Yeah yeah. Oh man. This is the first movie to
refer to Batman as the dark Knight. Good a sign
can be said. That's a sign that can be seen,
Good lord, A sign can be seen that says Crisscross,
which is a reference to Crisscross Puzzle Company, which is
how Riddler's riddles were transmitted when he first debuted in

(02:12:37):
the nineteen forties. MM and this is the first live
action Batman. As we mentioned earlier, to show Bruce's origin
with the bats in the cave, the batsuit costume was
redesigned to have more of a quote MTV Organic and
edgy or feel what does MTV organic mean?

Speaker 1 (02:12:53):
Say that whole sunds again and I could take a
swing at it, but it's just vague, like because I
think they mean back in like that analog music video
kind of day, like the original conception of like almost DII,
We're gonna do this thing to this song that didn't
last long, Like yeah, I think that was over by

(02:13:13):
like ninety two.

Speaker 2 (02:13:17):
By the way, that Val Kilmer Batman soup was like
over one hundred pounds.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
Good god.

Speaker 2 (02:13:23):
He couldn't hear what anyone was saying because of the
rubber cowl. Yeah, the suit dramatically restricted his movements. That
was obvious in the documentary. Vow he said whatever boyish
excitement I had going in was crushed by the reality
of the batsuit. Probably had something to do with why
he people thought that he was hard to work with.

(02:13:45):
He couldn't hear, and he couldn't move. I wanted to
be in such a dick huh, look that I'm sweating
in that batsuit, not able to move.

Speaker 1 (02:13:53):
Her here He got paid twenty minutes ago, but he
was at.

Speaker 2 (02:14:00):
Least apparently gracious enough to stick around during filming one
day at a great billionaire Warren Buffett, who brought his
grandkids to the set. There was a New York Times
profile and Kilmer talked about it. He said he was
just about to take off the batsuits at the end
of the day and Buffett and the kids arrived, and
he tried to stick around. He greeted them and everything,
but then realized the kids didn't care about him at all.
They were more interested in the batmobile and trying to

(02:14:21):
put on the cowl for themselves. And apparently that prompted
a sudden realization there is no Batman, just people projecting
themselves into the image. And as he told the Times,
that's why it's so easy to have five or six
Batman's it's not about Batman. There is no Batman. I
mean yeah, but the batsuit was so heavy that Valcolmer
lost five pounds filming the opening fight scene alone.

Speaker 1 (02:14:43):
Godm I surprised that to his credit. And you can
see he's restricted and you can see like, hm hmm,
you can see all the restrictions. Let's just call that
what it is, and I mean that in many ways,
but you can also see like that is a very
free flowing, pretty athletic scene by itself. Was actually pretty
impressed with the choreography.

Speaker 2 (02:15:02):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:15:02):
It looks way better than I thought it would. Yeah,
And they were doing some real moves in there, like
they trained, something really happened, something really happened. Like some
of the moves I saw now that I'm thinking about
it are like that actually would have been way harder
now that Val weighs three hundred pounds instead of two.
But damn yeah, some of that's actually a lot better.

(02:15:23):
Like there's one particular move where they threw each other
for a second. I was like, oh, that looks kind
of nice, like an actual bit of you know, throwing
the weight around old school Batman, using somebody's weight against
him kind of thing, but like nah no, and in
retrospect that was well danced by the scene partner there
to make it look like he was not the heaviest
fucking thing there.

Speaker 2 (02:15:40):
M hm. So. Schumacher's decision to put nipples and enlarged
cod pieces on the bat costumes.

Speaker 1 (02:15:47):
Oh the sentences I hear sometimes.

Speaker 2 (02:15:48):
As well as an ear ring for Robin, caused a
controversy and even bothered Batman creator Bob Kane. Schumacher said
he wanted the costumes to have an anatomic look, while
the earring was supposed to make Robin more hip. He
also claimed that the basis for the Batman and Robin
suits came from statues of the gods of ancient Greece.
More than one hundred Batman and Robin costumes were created

(02:16:10):
to allow for the range of stunts, from underwater scenes
to scenes involving fire and extreme fighting. Jim Carrey helped
design a lot of his costumes. Yeah, Tommy Lee Jones
makeup took about four hours to apply. Most interesting piece
of trivia a thing that the twelve year old day

(02:16:30):
have wondered for the scene where Chase Meridian is visited
by Batman on her balcony at night. Nicole Kidman was
not wearing any clothing underneath the white silk sheet which
with which she was covering herself, to which I also
as an adult, go why, yea why.

Speaker 1 (02:16:45):
This entire segment has been just why.

Speaker 2 (02:16:50):
Easily my favorite piece of trivia. Nick Cave was on
the Batman Forever soundtrack ball or soundtrack. I had that
soundtrack ran into the ground, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:17:00):
Uh yeah, I think that was an all anyone played
for about a year.

Speaker 2 (02:17:03):
Right, Uh, Nick Caves, there is a Light. Nick Cave
was asked about how he came to contribute a song
to a Batman's soundtrack, and he said, they asked me
to write about what Batman means to me, which is
basically nothing.

Speaker 5 (02:17:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:17:17):
I mean, the whole song is just him saying shit
about now there's a light that shines over the city.
But then he's just talking about like all the corruption,
the god shaped hole that we're looking for and you're
looking for looking for sex and drugs to fill your
god shaped toe, and the whole the whole thing is

(02:17:39):
just like the preacher sucking out the guts of the town.

Speaker 1 (02:17:42):
And it's sounding more and more like Rochak wrote a song.
Now that you're describing it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:49):
Dude, you've got to listen to It's called There Is
a Light by Nick Cave. You know Nick Cave, the
dude in the nineties who did a rare right hound
blun blun dude.

Speaker 1 (02:17:58):
You know, Yeah, cot vaguely remember that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:00):
So weird. PJ. Harvey was also on the soundtrack too.

Speaker 1 (02:18:04):
I'n't hear a lot anymore, I know.

Speaker 2 (02:18:07):
So. Val Kelmer considers this film to be so bad
as almost good, or he did consider it, describing in
his memoir that his children became bored while watching it
when he showed it to them for the first time.
Despite this, Kilmer remains glad he started in the film
and grateful to have played Batman, even if it was
only once. He said of the film quote, I've done

(02:18:28):
an absurdly commercial cartoon, and now I'm more likely to
get hired for a job I couldn't get hired for
before before because I hadn't done enough movies. It's so
rare when an actor gets hired because he's right for
the role. It just doesn't figure into it. So yeah,
this was at this for him. Yeah. Bruce Tim, writer

(02:18:48):
and producer of Batman, the animated series said in an
interview quote, I did not enjoy Joel Schumacher's Batman at all.
There we go end of quote. After seeing him in
this film, record producer George Martin approached Jim Carrey about
performing the song I Am the Walrus for his The
Beatles' tribute album In My Life. Carry accepted this one.

Speaker 1 (02:19:11):
I'm very very fond of. Obviously I knew you knew that, Yeah,
but it's it's true. I mean, I've when I learned
about that a long time ago, my first thought was, yeah,
that makes sense he does some because I did hear
George Burton talk about it, and all he did say, Like,
all he said was, you know, I know he's not
a singer, but his voice is just so musical. I

(02:19:31):
figure he can do it. And like then he got
him in the studio and did it. And it is
a wonderfully manic performance. I deeply advise anyone to listen
to it. The nd though, always cracks me up because
he says something about like as the outro for an
No Waus is going away, he says something about, there
you go, I've done it. I've ruined a timeless piece.

Speaker 2 (02:19:48):
Of art.

Speaker 1 (02:19:48):
For my next trick, I'm going to wear the shroud
of Turin as a loincloth. He shouts this in the
the you know, crescendoed string outro to coda. I guess
instead of king lear fun It's wonderful. I did believe
I was listened to it all.

Speaker 2 (02:20:06):
Right, final piece of trivia. This was actress Christa Miliatti's
favorite Batman movie when she was a child. To this day,
she still admires it for his vibrancy and being so
larger than life with the set design, cinematography, and acting performances.
If you don't remember, she plays Sophia Facone and the Penguin.

Speaker 1 (02:20:22):
She's not wrong about the parts that were good. It
looks fantastic.

Speaker 2 (02:20:25):
Yeah, there are some farms that I just I just
have so much funness for. Yeah, there were some really
cool visuals Batman jumping off of the uh the building, yeah,
the police building and landing in the car like that,
that whole sequence of They did a few sequences where
he would like jump and like fell through narrow places
that were very Batman.

Speaker 1 (02:20:46):
Most of his swooping was absolutely on point for what
it was at the time, at least I mean it
would wouldn't hold up well now because.

Speaker 2 (02:20:54):
It just looks like he's a CGI.

Speaker 1 (02:20:56):
But well yeah you'd c G. I'm now instead of
what we got like as it was, he was like
this weird rigid structure on a clothes line.

Speaker 2 (02:21:03):
Well he was still c G. I like look at
Oh my god, dude, like he just you know, if
you're not like paying close attention, is like really dope.
But then if you really look at it for a second,
you're like, oh, he's as much of a cartoon as
that helicopter was.

Speaker 1 (02:21:18):
That's rough. Yeah, there's there were spots in the Helicopter
in particularly remind me of the old like that weird
overlay era of effects where you were doing like it's
not like King kong Kin style of things, where you'd
like do a miniaturized section and literally overlay that film
on top of another. And yeah, you can just see
it's a different it never matches visually running close.

Speaker 2 (02:21:41):
And like it's a different grain and there's a halo effect.

Speaker 1 (02:21:43):
Yeah, like it's it just Yeah, they better or worse
like those old was it Chaplin films where they would
draw in glass or they would painting glass the exact things.

Speaker 2 (02:21:55):
That sounds right, but I might like it's just heavily
influenced by you.

Speaker 1 (02:21:59):
Maybe it's just another visual illusion but just done so
much better.

Speaker 2 (02:22:03):
Yeah, I don't know. Parts of this were like, yeah,
we're with the helicopter and stuff, where it was just
like yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, that's a model on
a green screen or whatever it was, and then it
would quickly become like, oh my god, and this is
where Kirk Allen jumps and becomes a cartoon of Superman.
Noisy flies away.

Speaker 1 (02:22:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You shouldn't be able to
watch You should be able to look in under the
hood of a movie from the theater seat, but sometimes.

Speaker 2 (02:22:28):
You just can. That's a really great line to end
it on. Man, We'll leave it there then, all right,
thank you guys so much for listening. And again I'll
remind you if I know there's gonna be a lot
of ads on this one because it's a long ass episode.

(02:22:48):
So one dollar a month. This one dollar a month
though on Patreon all the ads get taken away. It's
really wonder.

Speaker 1 (02:23:00):
Can't strip at the ads out of this movie for
a dollar a month?

Speaker 2 (02:23:04):
Patreon dot com slash DC on screen. Love you, I'm
talking to you, Jason. Yeah, this is quite a journey.
Yeah it was fun and uh I love you too,
dear listener as well. And uh, we will be back
with probably news because it's been a couple of weeks

(02:23:24):
since we've done some news and there's probably something out
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:23:28):
Yeah, that will have accumulated while we watched him made
fun of this movie.

Speaker 2 (02:23:33):
All right, y'all. Until then, keep some DC on your screen.

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