October 6, 2024 • 54 mins
We love it. Full stop. This is a masterpiece. Yes, we explain why we love it. Please don't listen to the naysayers, just go watch it for yourself and decide. You may hate it, or it might be one of the best films you've ever seen.By the way, our review is TOTALLY full of spoilers, and this is a movie that SHOULD NOT be spoiled.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to DC on screen.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm David c. Robertson Jason Goss sitting across from me. Uh, yeah,
we have seen Joker Faldy. I do, indeed, Uh I
if I knew it, and I'm sure I did.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh, we're going full spoiler. We don't care.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We are going full spoiler. If you haven't seen Joker Fawy,
I do you need to uh not listen to our
show for a minute. Go watch the movie. And I
do say go watch this movie because it can be spoiled,
and we will spoil it. There's I did not know
we were going to certain places in this movie.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh, spoilers will be out, and they'll be out with
vitriol too, because man, people pick sides before it even
came out.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
On this one, people pick sides. Look, I'll be honest.
I went to this movie not giving a shit. Yeah,
those credits rolled and I turned you and said, that
was fucking dope. Great, like and it's funny because like
the there was like maybe four people in the theater
we first got there, and about thirty thirty five minutes
(01:04):
into it, he stood up in a huff and left,
and Jason thought maybe he was going to get a
for a pee break or something.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I didn't catch the huf.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I did not. I did not he like there was
like a grunt huff, and I thought, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I just thought he too was forty yeah standing up?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah yeah, I thought that maybe at first. But when
he walked out, like the way he hit the door,
like I heard the door hit, I was like, oh no,
he just did not like that movie. Sure enough, he
never came back.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He did not. I realized about twenty minutes later that
I hadn't seen his profile over. I haven't looked down
the theater to see if he just decided he'd gotten
he'd get a closer seat on the way back.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
But yeah, so if, by the way, if we talked
about it on the show. This is why I continually
changed my stances on this show, because like I sat there,
I read Todd Phillips saying in those interviews this I
would really call a musical. I wouldn't call it a musical.
I wouldn't call it a musical. There's music, yes, they sing,
(02:01):
I wouldn't call it a musical. And I was like,
that's bullshit. He's just trying to get away with like
doing a musical without being calling it a musical. I
walked out of the theater going that wasn't a musical.
It wasn't like there was there were there was singing.
He had a few fantasy sequences.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I still think he roughly did what because all right,
so you were like afraid he was going to do that,
and I was more looking forward to the fact that
he was going to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, but I think he.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Effectively did that, but in a way that was pleasing.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I like musicals. I'm not scared of a musical. My
favorite movie is a musical. But yeah, uh, and it's
funny because High Fidelity is my other, like big top favorite,
and they're not a musical.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But there's a lot of music oriented works.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
In a record store. So I'm watching this thing and
going like, yeah, it is not a musical. There is
music here. And what I was mainly afraid of was,
you know, Todd trying to backtrack and just looking stupid
and being like, don't try to sell us some bullshit
(03:02):
when you're clearly just doing a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, but you thought he was copping out beforehandle. I
just did make him some safe space for himself.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I did, but you know, and I mean people have
different opinions on this. Clearly if you go online and
you start looking around, people are like, that was crap.
That was a musical. There was no Batman. No, I
didn't see. I was like, no, Todd absolutely told me
the truth. Like, there wasn't a ton of music. There
were some songs, but I loved it, Like I loved
(03:29):
how like in the real world when they were singing,
their voices were bad, and how when in the fantasy
world their voices were pretty good. Yeah, Like there was
a progression and as they went further, like even in
the fantasy the voices got better and better.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I thought that was neat, like as they're kind of growing.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The performances even about midway through, once they do the
sunny and chair kind of bit, like once they get
to about that area and he starts really filling out
his little middle space of these musicals. He really goes
you know, full hamm and bat and like in the
back end of it, like they're they are full on
motherfucking pieces at the end of it, like the mountain,
the kind of Gospelly mountain bit. Yeah, which incidentally, an
(04:11):
overall note about these someone who wrote them. I would
suspect Lady Garga was involved, but like good music for
the thing.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, good music in general, I mean score. I certain
ones were obviously songs that I knew, some some weren't.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean, you know you're gonna have one the Saints
as a as a theme frankly throughout the Honestly, the
song when the Saints Go March Again is basically a
character in this movie. And I dog all that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, I mean you're basically looking at the beginning of
a religion. Yeah, a little bit like and that was
one of the best things. I really loved this movie.
I think I think it was neat, you know. And
it was a scathing indictment of the people who went
and saw the first one and walked out thinking that
he was the hero. Yeah, like, yes, yes, he was
very shit on in society and yeah, fucking yeah he
(05:00):
the Robert de Niro got what he fucking deserved. Yeah. Also,
so does Arthur Fleck at the end of this movie,
because he did take it too far. And just because
you're mentally ill doesn't mean you should do take certain things.
You shouldn't go killing a bunch of.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Fuckers, you know, you just can't, so catchup.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It does catch up with you, and it does in
such a wonderful The.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Whole movie was gonna culminate in it catching up to it.
He was given the death sentence ef fact, they didn't
show up, but that was what was on the table.
So he was gonna be killed fried according to that
one guard. But I mean he was he was dying either,
which damn way. Yeah, but yeah, sure enough, that's the
big ending there is like, yeah, this this joker dies.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, Arthur Fleck dies. Yeah, And they make a point
of like there's I love that, like his attorney's trying
to get him off being like separate entity. Is this
a multiple personality kind of situation?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And their treatment of him is a bit of an
indictment on people who are like trying to make he is.
For the most part, I actually agree with their defense
in the sense that he is deeply troubled and needs
help rather than punishment. But you can tell that they're
trying to make the case he's got to participate in
his case and a little bit like all the leading questions, right,
(06:18):
and then those those are I believe that's baked in
the film. I'm very much on purpose, because he regurgitates
the wording word for word in the interview later with
the man who's much funnier than you would know if
you just saw this movie and has a way better
American accent than I thought. But yeah, he like he
uses the entire wording about like sight seeing lights and
(06:38):
everything kind of went black for a second. He's very
specifically is getting led by his legal team into this,
and you know, speaking the legal team, there's a lot
of thoughts with pretty much anything in this movie that
I would impact. But do you get the sense over
the course of like there's just scenes where he h
so this movie has a lot of leaving the camera
on people and letting him react. Yes, Like the film
(07:00):
could easily have been an hour and a half in
terms of what happened, there's two hours eighteen because you
get you're breathing with what.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Happened, and it kills me because we were walking in
and I was like, how is this thing not eighty
fucking minutes? Like I can't, how are we gonna do
two and eighteen?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean, in terms of the story, I could have
if you wanted.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
To dude, if I didn't have to pee, so bad.
I would have been fine, for it was gorgeous and
it was macabre and it was sad.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But one of the reactions I keep getting is that
he almost keeps looking at his legal team in a
way that's like you get the sense that he'll spare them,
like whatever is about to happen, Like they seem to
be actually treating them like a human. He seems to
recognize that they actually are trying to treat him like
a real person that needs help, and like that kind
(07:50):
of like with his friend there a Puddles, Yes, where
he they were nice to each other. He didn't hurt him,
just like he said that was the deal. He would
have left the lawyer alone too if that was in
the same situation. And then he gets choked up afterwards
because he didn't not hurt him after all. Yeah, he
faces his own consequences. Like that's part of the movies
charmed to me. Yeah, there is a very consequence heavy
(08:12):
movie he does.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And I love that, Like he winds up as Arthur
falling in love with Lee, and then we get to
the end and realize, no, she's not in love with Arthur,
She's in love with Joker. She's in love with something
that she created. Yeah, and like, so all these people
who are his followers, they're not they're not Arthur's followers.
They don't care about him. They are in love with
(08:33):
this idea.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
The fantasy they keep saying.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Right. It also kind of just sounds like God's taking
the piss out of the fandom, don't it's a little
bit I mean, like, oh, you you were mad because
he wasn't the Joker. Well, guess what, he's not the Joker.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, he's definitely not. That appears to be possibly a
trend that some of the all tours are gonna fight
back on some of the fandom, and honestly, at this
point it's due.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So yeah, fine, good with that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
But yeah, it's very much much. I mean, think about
at the end, so he everything you can possibly want.
In the moment of him being convicted, the guilty please
coming down, he gets freed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, bye bomb, Bye bomb.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
By the way, the one thing that I think the
movie gets comics accurate about the Joker is that, to
my estimation, the Joker's only real superpower is taking a
fucking beating. Yeah, and Arthur Fletch take a fucking beating.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Jesus by the way during the so the they're in
the courtroom getting the getting the guilty verdict, the bomb
goes off. Arthur stands up looking around. We see all
these people laying about. Did you notice Harvey Dent. Oh
for sure, It's subtle. It's there though, but it's there,
Like the appropriate side was facing where the bomb blast was. Yep,
(09:47):
that we got a bit of two face there.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He's awake but stunned.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
He's awake, stunned, groggy.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
But one half of that faces And I was pretty yeah,
it's a bit bult stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It was bit burn bit singed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And I think that's as close as you're going to
get to a nod to anything on this dand movie.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Oh definitely not though, because.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
For a nod to any kind of built extra you know,
expansion of the universe.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yes, and no. Like I thought it was fun in
the way that like I thought it was clever the
way that Todd you know in the first movie. Uh
you had the guy in the Joker mask who was
inspired and followed Wayne the Waynes down the alley and uh,
(10:33):
you know, well it was just perfectly happy to give
some rich twats what they deserve here. And I was
kind of like I kind of had a feeling because
we kept seeing this one guy as one inmate, like
watching everything Arthur was doing.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
With the levels of excitement or disappointment.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yes, being very very like hard on his sleeve a
little bit here, yeah, like very engaged, and I thought
he had had a bit of a grin to him,
and I went, oh, so like at the end of
the movie, that guard's like, you got a visitor, and
Arthur goes walking down that hallway and that guy shows
up and he's like, hey, Arthur, I just want to
tell you a quick joke, or I just want to
(11:14):
tell you a joke. Can you make it quick? Yeah,
I'll make it quick. Fucker stabs Arthur several times, goes
off over a few feet away and like cackling wildly
slits his own mouth, los himself, he ledgers himself. As
Arthur dies, I was just like, yeah, Todd Phillips actually said, no,
this is a Batman universe. You just didn't see the joker. Like,
(11:37):
but Bruce Wayne is a kid and he's growing up
right now, he's becoming orphan. He's orphaned. This is happening,
And we got a guy here in Arkham who was
inspired but ultimately disappointed by this guy because even the
joke he told about like the washed up fucking clown
who let everyone down, He's gonna get what he fucking deserves.
Same the same punchline that Arthur gave Murray before blowing
(12:03):
his brains out. I just loved it. Loved it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I mean I didn't at the moment I saw that
guy in the hallway, you know, you immediately put together
what scene you're about to watch here. I just wanted
to be like Arthur run.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, there is definitely a part of you that he
sits there and goes like you feel for Arthur because
you're like, dude, well, on the one.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Hand, he's done everything he's done, and he he certainly
needs to be dealt with in some capacity, helped in
isolated at least best.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The thing is, like I felt for Arthur the same
way Poddles did about the guy that Arthur killed.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He deserve deserve to die.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Like his Arthur's defense made such a good case with fair.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Peddles didn't deny the bullying. He just deserved that.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Right, but his his defense like worked on me, Like
when she was talking about, you know, the sexual abuse
and the beatings and all of this stuff from his childhood.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Fucking star in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely, absolutely, he may have. He may have walked if
she if he had, he actually he actually might have
also walked if he didn't just like confess that there's
no joker. There's clearly a joker. It's just that he
realized that. I think he realized that, you know, what,
he cared about him.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean, yeah, but in the course of like learning
about the idea of the joker, there's a few things
stood out.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
One.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, he I think he realizes he's not whatever that
is at some point and everyone's just pointed, she walks
away the crowd.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I think it was a.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Big part of that was Puddles. Yeah, Puddles broke them a.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Little bit broken. Yeah, he broke them down.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, Puddles broke them a little bit. But I think
the the big event was that his insanity got his
little sick vat in Jel killed and he heard it here,
he heard it happen. And I think him being broken
in that moment was what what the story was being
told was that that like he was so broken in
that moment that he saw his consequences. Yeah, and like,
I don't know, there was I think remorse for that
for that moment, but following him for something he's not. Yeah,
(13:58):
and for that moment that meant that, I mean, he's
just not going to be the Joker.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean he tried and for everything that he for
every way that everyone made him feel, he has now
become that. He says later as he's put on the stool.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Up, I was going to give an angry rant and
you like to this, there's still some steam in the
jokerendom when he's going to the court room that day,
but it it just it just leaves, and it just leaves.
At some point they leave him. The entire fantasy dies
as as she puts it, like and yeah, his his
little his little buddy didn't make it like it. He
abandons that. But the other things that stood out to
(14:32):
me is in particular, you know the scene with the
little mini riot when he gets back from the when
he's declared himself as lawyer, and yeah, it's just Arthur
in his always diminished form. They never make him seem
in any way imposing, I mean even in Joker for him,
he's he's slick, yeah, but he's not. And when he's
got a gun, he's he's unpredictable and that makes him dangerous,
(14:54):
but he's not imposing. Yeah, like he was not going
to win a fistfight with that dude in the hallway,
much less a knife fight with him unarmed.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But when he's when he has the makeup, the Joker
makeup on, even when he doesn't sometimes, but like when
you do see a shift like he does Christopher Reeve
that ship, he does, He very much does. He stops
slumping and starts standing up right like that when he
became the lawyer and he's walking around there and he
had the southern accent. Yeah, the accent work was like
(15:22):
all the way around, kill a mockingbird, fucking Andy Griffith.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Dad slips back into his real voice occasionally then he
goes to puddles and mocking the slightly caughtn accent like thing.
He Yeah, that accent works beautiful. But he's always he
I mean specifically, the way he kicks the door open
is the thing that all of us would imitate on
a Halloween night addressed as the Joker, you know, m hmm.
But there's something about his diminished form no matter where
(15:47):
you see him all this stuff happens around him. He
seems to be this this the pen in the grenade,
like he does the the thing that's so crazy, no
one would actually do it. He does it, but it's
always something little and it's not He doesn't call her rio.
He hasn't caused the city to overturn the city does
that to himself in the way they are the ledger,
that joker that they were trying to prove in that movie. Yeah,
but he only shot a couple of guys that were
(16:10):
builing him on a train. Everyone else interprets the joker
out of this, and he believes it to some extent,
but yeah, it fails him eventually. But I just love
the shot in particular of him up on the table
everyone riding around him. That shot was a lot. I
don't know that one really stood up to me as
how small he really is. So I think even with that,
(16:31):
with new you know, healthier, fresh faced joker, that kind
at the end, that may be the kind of person
who was a little bit more formidable to say a
batman wandered around and wanted to beat some people up. Yeah,
like maybe someone could actually put up a fight in
that sense, But that proto Joker is always going to
be a different thing. Like he's he's taken the mantle
from him and said, if you're tired of the fantasy,
(16:53):
I guess I'll run it as far as it'll go.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, but he was done. Yeah. It makes you wonder though,
like because like Lee didn't actually kill herself, you know,
she's I believe she did. Do you think she did?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I believe she did.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think that's well, we saw the gun at her head,
but then later we saw her smoking up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
We did. But I believe the you shortened your hair,
I believe is a I don't know. I think that's
a nod. I think there's a little bit of in
his head, kind of like the same way we did
at the end of the first one, where we were
wondering what's in his head what's not? In my version
of events, the way I interpreted that, I think he.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Went up the stairs and no one was there.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And no one was there, and he knew in his
heart what the rest of that conversation was, and of
course they went to look for him there. Of course
they did. The cops finding him, there would not be
a story flaw from me. Yeah, I think he either
maybe went up and saw her, found her maybe or
at least went up and thought he maybe knew what happened.
I don't know, but yeah, the idea about her hair
(17:46):
being shortened in particular, I thought that was a nod
to something that happened to her head.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, is I did wonder about that. That's an okay,
I like that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Take, And but to me that means that if that
is something happen in her head, then he would know
something specific. So it almost means that to me, he
actually maybe did go find her in the apartment.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm not sure though, that that would all be a
wild interpretation.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I also liked the well, you know, because I'm me
and because I'm a comic book fan, the fact that
they kind of set up the Joker, the actual Joker,
cackling and laughing and crackling, laughing, the whole nine. The
fact that they set that up makes me kind of
like and because she rejected Arthur for not being real
the real Joker, there's a there's an idea that I
(18:29):
like of her kind of being out there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And finds him glomming on to this new guy. I mean,
that would be a way to go with it. As
she she finds him, you know, realizes, no, that was
the real guy the whole time. This other guy just
held it for a minute. M h. And then and
if that's the case, yeah, she would take her little
nod to Harley outfit and go full fucking hard Quinn
with it. Which, by the way, there's actually a really
(18:55):
good amount of costume design stuck into these movies. Yeah,
the Joker franchise so far. Oh, the outfit alone was iconic.
How many ChEls did you see that on?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
God damn, I love fucking gagas Harley Quinn outfit at
the end. Yeah, I know that was in the trailers. Yeah,
I knew it was there already, but I really dug
it on screen she stands out in the crowd.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really will you know? I don't think we'll get another
one of these movies, Like, I think this is done.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I want it to be. It was. It was good
where it's down.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I you know, if they really wanted to, I think
they could, you know, if they wanted to, I think
they could pick up a few years later, you know,
with it'd say like this is all kind of rough backstory.
If they wanted, but I don't think they will. I
think it's done.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
If I was going to play a joke on everybody,
it'd be to do this one and then maybe pick
up one or two other Batman villains, still never have
the Batman involved, and then make a fifth film where
you have him. But at the twist ending get there
is he actually just goes fucking insane like he might
have instead of becoming Batman, right, and the whole franchise
ends on a whimperd He's just like, he's just in.
He's just actually a fucking lunatic who lost his parents.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, he's just in Arkham in the mid nineties. Yeah,
but no, you know, I really I think it's so
funny that people are having such a big problem with
this movie. I'm guessing because it's a musical, but also
because Batman's not in it. And I'm like, y'all, okay,
(20:16):
but like, you know, this is like, if this is
setting up a universe if you really want, if you
want it, like it's a neat little nod.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
It is a very weird cornerstone on which to build
the foundation of a Batman type universe. Yeah, to go
specifically so Joker and so surreal at the same time
and well surreal and real at the same time. So like, yeah,
we've got all the groundedness of watching him take a
beating and watching it have a toll in his body.
I mean he saw his shoulder really Like there's the grounded,
(20:48):
gritty Nolan esque version of this, but then there's also
a pretty wild interpretation of him in a lot of ways.
But yeah, I don't know, that's not going to turn
into just like a Batman asqu friend. That's going to
be spun out of that. No, And I don't know
how you would. I wouldn't. I don't. I wouldn't try
to predict what I wouldn't want to want in this
whole realm.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You know, I could sit all day and oh, I
don't want this, I don't want this. I do want this,
I do want this, but I don't know, like I
never know, Like I didn't think I wanted this movie,
and then it blew away, It blew me away, and
I was like, no, that was the perfect sequel, Like
it answered the questions that I wanted answered from the
first movie.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That was a good point.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I did want to know what happened to Sophia
and her daughter. I did want to know, you know,
what what Arthur's treatment looks like. I do want to know,
like what his trial looks like. And I'll be damned
we got it.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I wanted to know what the real body count was
by the end of Joker one. Yeah, so it was
for him, Yeah, but it very much could have been
a few other people we didn't know. I mean, like
I was happy to see that her and her daughter
were even alive, because one interpretation of the movie was
there not right. So yeah, it was good to see
at the end. I mean, I remember last our last review,
(21:59):
we had a lot of about what didn't didn't actually happen.
This one actually gave us the answers. I was very
happy about that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It gave us the answers, but also like I feel
like Todd turned around and said, look, this isn't just
a vacuum. We're not just throwing this some I p
names on some stuff. I've actually got a take here.
Bruce Wayne is still in his bat cave or in
his Wayne manor growing up. This guy just became the
real Joker.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, like he.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
He found he saw Arthur, was inspired, but found him
wanting took him out. H and now this has got
the guy who's gonna that Bruce is gonna have to
deal with for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And even if it doesn't have to be that, so
whether Lee's alive or not is irrelevant. It could still
be that this this guy saw her on the news,
He'll have a proto version of her in his head. Anyway,
someone else can inhabit that role as well.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Later.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Now we would lose one part of the cannon, in
some parts of the cannon at least because some versions
Harvey's friends with Bruce and not the age difference here
wouldn't work.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's not like, you know,
a one to one. But even the comics aren't you know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Like btas leaned heavily on Harvey and Bruce being friends,
right previously, it wasn't that big of a deal, like
it's around.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, it depends onwhat what you're looking at. I mean
sometimes they are contemporaries. Yeah, sometimes they're not.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But this is I mean, Paul Deini's one of the
first people that just said they were best. He's that
we're going to make a thing o it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
See, I love that though, because not only do you
I don't want to get off into old Ranton, but
why I love btas but Jesus Christ, I love the
idea of you know this, you know, clean cut dude
who has a dark past, but he's Bruce's best friend
and Bruce fails him in some capacity and he becomes
this villain. I love it. I love this shit.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It is a good twist, man. I like that interpretation
just fine.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I love the guilt that Bruce has over two Face.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
The one thing though, that like, if we took all
of these as protos and people gonna, you know, pull
up the baton Harvey is gonna be a hard one
to do, unless, I mean unless they do exactly the
same as the joker guy just did. Yeah, because I
mean he really is just mimicking what he saw on
his version's face, right. I guess if somebody would wanted
to be a you know, I'm gonna be the real
(24:17):
two Face, then you could go ascid, stay in your
own face.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You could, but you know it. You look at Gotham
and Harvey was a young prosecutor there, like while Bruce
is a little kid, and they kind of hinted at
Harvey's temper in uh in Gotham he would kind of
snap a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
He would and changed his voice and everything. And then
I don't know, I guess he fucked off the Blue Heaven.
In that show he was seen again.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I really liked that that actor was so good he was.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
It was a shame that one.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I would have loved to have seen more from
from him. He was great in Masters of Sex too,
who was there one? Yes he was, Yes, he was,
and he was fantastic. I love the cartoon intro.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I forgot about that, that me and my Shadow.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Thing that well. I mean, the Shadow is clearly the
dark the Joker persona, you know, trying to get away
from him, you know, lock them away and take control.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I mean I wondered when I so, when it first opens,
before we've gotten the rest of this movie to deal with,
just in that intro where he locks you know, the
real version in the coupveroared, you were already thinking at
that moment, Okay, well is this is this how he's
dealing with what he did? I mean that that cartoon
(25:40):
set you up very well for what we're about to do. Yeah,
and yeah, sure enough, the Shadow gets out kills a
bunch of people, but then turns out they have to
be together after all. I guess that's the only thing
that we don't see in the cartoon is him kill
the shadow almost.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, I mean, I mean that he just became one
with a shadow. I mean, like the cartoon did tell
us what was going to happen, Like we were going
to pretend that they're two separate entities, but Arthur at
the end goes, no, we're the same. Just fucked up.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I just realized the cartoons with an explosion, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think so? I think so that's interesting, see this
is about that. And I did, like I saw people complaining,
like Joker too starts with a fucking cartoon. I mean,
I just don't want to see this something I will
not see it. And I'm like, y'all are just so
over dramatic little cry babies.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Joker one was nothing but high concept all to her filmmaking. Bullshit,
Why did you walk into this one that was called
a musical starts with a cartoon and think you were
getting anything close to a normal movie Like this was
not gonna be.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That's that was my.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Main takeaway thing. I told you leave in the theater.
Was I got exactly what I paid for I expect.
I saw all of Tudd Phillips press press leading up
to the movie. He said it was gonna be a
certain thing. I walked out, and I thought that was
exactly the thing.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
That was pretty right. I believe you said what what
I was told I was going to get and what
I got in the Venn diagram is a complete circle.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yes, yeah, it very much is. Like I don't know,
I mean our real life example of dude just walking out,
I don't know what he was there for. I mean
a lot of people's knee jerk reactions right now feel
like are just their expectations kind of turning into resentment
kind of thing, Like they're they walked in expecting a
(27:30):
movie that they weren't told to expect. To some extent
and on its own merits, there's plenty to like or
not like about the movie. I mean, if you weren't
up for this kind of faux musical thing, yeah, then
I could see three four movie or you know, numbers
in just kind of going the same for me, or
if it's a little too dark in certain ways, I mean,
you probably should have seen that come from the first one.
(27:51):
But yeah, okay, or hell if it's not even killing
people fast enough early on in the movie, can almost
see that. But because i mean first half and second
half as far as actual you know action action goes
a couple of cop beatings aside in the first half,
there's kind of very little going on other than what
like one fantasy action little same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, there's a character study, man, very much so. Character study.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It's a film, a film, not a movie.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Examining expectations versus reality, examining the you know, fandoms, Yeah, followers,
cult followings like.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That was a nice point. Speaking of fantoms. He is
rescued by these people and climbs out of the car
hastily to escape them, to escape them because they're crazy,
because they're awful. I mean, we're we're interpreting a little
bit of that, but yeah, he gets out because they're
basically up there talking about yeah, man, we're gonna we're
gonna turn this whole thing on.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And said, we blew up the courthouse, We're gonna burn
the city to the ground. He's like, no, I.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Mean at the point part of that, yeah, and his
in his character art, he's just I just want to
get out of this thing and go see if I can. Finally,
that's all I want. Yeah, just didn't try to find her. Yeah,
he bounces on that one easily and quickly. The music itself,
you already hinted at it that they did a really
good job of. I almost spent some of the first
(29:12):
part of the movie trying to figure out what the
rules are, because there had to have been some right,
maybe you can't make a even I figured it could
be different for a lot of people. But I figure,
if you're going to make a movie like this that
plays with a couple of genres like that, you kind
of have to have some internal guidelines like, Okay, well,
when the music does this, we're going into the x
amount of reality. And when the music doesn't do that,
(29:33):
then we're still probably in reality.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
The one thing that I really noticed because sometimes in
reality and the real scenes where they're singing to each other,
there will still be music, the music cues or score
on those, Yeah, that goes along with the song. What
I've noticed, though, is the stuff that happened in real
life was very differentiated. Like you start seeing them sing together,
(29:56):
or he's singing on TV on the In the interview
Docapella Baby, there's acapella, but there's they still do put music,
but then they show people's reactions, and those reactions are
real world reactions, like the fuck is he singing about? Yeah,
you know, like, okay, well this is just bizarre, right, but.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Even and that's a funny reaction. Is one of the
things that made it because you do you spend some
of this movie deciding what to interpret as real. And
one of the reasons in that interview that I decided that, okay,
this is part of reality is the cops reaction of
all things, because he was so proud to hear the song.
You know, he's doing a job with it, you.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Know, yeah, yeah. But then, like I think there's a
very real differentiation when this stuff in his head, like
or their head where.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Their orchestration comes in the.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Orchestration, they're in a completely different setting. It's like Sonny
and Chair. It's you know, a wedding venue thing of
you know, there's production behind it. It's it's very very different.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And alone he puts on the makeup in his fantasies
right for most of it.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And that's that's another reason, Like I don't think is
a musical because it doesn't have the rules of the musical.
The musical's rules generally are whether or not they're original
songs for that production or covers. People break into fucking song,
everyone gets in on it, they dance. There's a whole
thing reality for that film is that people break into
(31:20):
song and do shit.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That's a conceit. You just got to deal with it.
When you walked into the theater.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
That is not here in this that is not part
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, it's very different. I mean, you know when you've
walked into a you know, Hammerstein piece or something that like,
you know when they start, you just know when they
start the song, it's gonna be you know, the literal
lights are going to turn off on the side of
the stage. Yeah, it's a whole production literally.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So in this he starts singing, people look at him
like he's fucking crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, and I think I'm like, there's at least one
mislead where you look at him crazy, But then we're
all going to lean into it. He's going to keep
singing that is what's actually happening. Yeah, and then there's
other ones where we're gonna find out in a second
that he's doing that in his head and you do
have to just keep watching to figure out which one
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I do completely love though, how throaty and real and broken.
A lot of their singing his early, especially in the
most reality you know.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, it's heart rending. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I mean, Joe King has an okay voice, but he's
he's gonna have a range. Of course, did a great
job of keeping him in range when they want him
to sound a certain way, and really letting him push
where it hurts his voice, out where you know, he
could probably vocal train out of that, but that that's
not what you want for this.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
A lot of interviews I've been saying kind of indicate that,
I mean, they fly out said that, like god, God,
they had to like work with her to like not sound.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It sounds good.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, can you just like fucking be broken? How many
CTEs you know that sound amazing? Yeah? Half a second please,
Well we'll get there. Yeah, you'll be seeing at.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The end when he's kind of grabbing a face and
trying to get her not to sing. Yeah, which, by
the way, well two things one in reality, when he's
that close to her and she sounds that good. That
as that that's actually her singing like that. That's her
not that you know, not having to fuck up her
voice basically, but something that I think goes to my
theory about.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, she sounded really great.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
There, sounded really good. And sheep he keeps messing with
her mouth and you don't hear any kind of like right, and.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
He's begging her to stop. Yeah, because that means she's imaginary.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Fuck, that's so good. That's so good.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That's a nice fun that's a fun bit.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Hey, Dave, Here, before we jump back into our review
of Joker Folio, do i'd like to tell you that
we also recorded a really fun conversation for Patreon. You know,
just a light rambling about why ghosts aren't ever described
as floating or translucent before the nineteen hundreds aliens, controversial
AI opinions, hopeful outcomes for our eventual fall to the
(33:55):
AI Empire, among many other things. We had fun talking.
We hope you have fun listening. It's just one of
the extras you get when you're a five dollars patron
Patreon dot com slash DC on screen. Yes, there is
a link in the show notes and that episode will
be up sometime this week. It might even be up
right now. If you've waited to listen to a review
so I don't know, go check it out. Also, if
(34:17):
you want, you can join our Patreon for free. You
can join it for a dollar. That way you'll get
every episode add free. There are options. That's all I'm saying.
Back to the show. I'm sorry, man, I don't know
what your problems are. I don't know if it's I
don't know if it's a fan entitlement. I'm not mad
at you either way. If you hated this movie, I
don't know if it's like weird alpha male, I can't
watch the musical, or I'm gay. I don't know what
(34:38):
the problem is. But this is a great movie. It was.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I'm gonna insist, like if we're gonna make a difference
between the words, this is a film, not a movie.
If you want to actually sit down and watch something,
It'll take me a long time to want to watch
this again. Mm hmm. I don't need to. I've got
I mean, I can, It's not like I've got every
frame memorize. There's plenty. I can go and watching list
and and love more. But I won't need to. I
won't have the like emotional capacity to sit down and
(35:05):
do that again for a second.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, I'll need to.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I need to let that breathe.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, this will be like a thing where like I'm
gonna get this Blu ray and I'm gonna like put
on Joker and then Joker too, yeah, back to back
one day in like two years. Yeah, and just make
a day of it and just sit there and like
just really get absorbed, just get absorbed as ship. Like Beth,
you will be out of town. I'mays just I'm just
(35:30):
gonna I'm gonna ordering food or something and I'll just
sit there and just watch it and.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Just pizza and sparkling water and we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, just like die on ashes over this, over these depressing,
wonderful movies.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
But yeah, plot wise, nothing nothing left behind. I don't
think so performance wise that all of these people should
be they should be pelted with awards. Yeah, and any
number of technical aspects of this that should be pelted
with awards. It just genuinely well made quality film.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
At this point. I shouldn't I have to say it,
but I know Rotten Tomatoes is sitting at about forty five,
fuck them, fuck rotten Domatos.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I mean that that's a standard, a maximum for us.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Even this is a fantastic film, I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Care genuinely is it's a I think, like I said,
I think it really is expectations. I think if you
went in expecting to see the movie that you were
told to go watch, you can have varying levels of
how much you did or didn't like it. But it's
not going to be forty five percent good. I think
it's gonna be seventy or something. It may not be
the best one you've ever seen, but unless you were
(36:30):
just betrayed by your own expectations of not seeing a
musical or seeing too much of one yeah, or not
seeing Batman even though we told you it's not gonna
happen mm hmm, I think you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
And this is like a perfect example of like how
an era can it? Can it be like not all bad? Like?
Because this is I think this is the final one.
This is the final movie, the final pre Gun development movie, gotcha.
I think it was even in production before Gun took over.
This is the final one of the Hamada era.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And I think I'm going to maybe start defining that
in my head as pre year, post the formation of
DC Studios.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, this is the final like pre DC Studios.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Wanner Brothers, before we decided we had to have a
thing for it, right, and we were just tried our
best to make.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You know, DCEU Aquaman whatever you think about that. For me,
that era went out on a fucking banger, dude, this
was sense.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah that was if that was the way we went out,
then yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
It yielded some interesting crops.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Which is fun because in one sense, I you know,
I've always thought the funniest thing was watching you know,
the Aquaman end and just what I guess this this
whole universe ends, universe of characters or portrayals, whatever you
want to do with it is I guess gonna peter
out with or meeting a cockroach burger.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
But the era ends with but the production Aire Supose
ends with Arthur Fleck, Yeah, dying on a floor, bleeding
out little little bits of little choices that were good
include did you catch the blood in his mouth when
he's singing at the end in the Fantasy? Oh well
she had shot him in the Fantasy too.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
She had show him in Fantasy too, And yeah, that
was going to play in He goes back to that
same spot, that same moment, but they cut from it.
You never see past that moment in the original fantasy.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Just works up.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
But he yeah, he uh at the very end there,
like there's real blood in his fantasy mouth. M h
as he's as he's dying. It got a hell of
a portrayal, man, he looks so frail, the.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Entire t look. I said two years. I'll be honest,
I might watch this again with Bethany when it comes
out on Max, when it hits Max or wherever it hits. Yeah,
because I kind of want to watch it again. I
don't want to pay money who go see it. I
think I had limits, but well, I mean it's a
very specific type of film, like it's it's a film,
(38:55):
as you said, it's you know, there's a lot to
think of.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
It requires space, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And also, I'll be honest, like I don't I felt
just as I honestly felt just as nervous seeing this
one as I did the first one, but for slightly
different reasons, because you know, there was so much to
be said about, Like there were a lot of people
are like, oh my god, people are gonna freak out
with this movie. Like, people are gonna get violent watching
(39:22):
this movie. They're gonna be inspired by it. A lot
of people were afraid of that, and I was a
little I'm already weird ever since that fucker came in
and shot up Dark Knight Rises in the theater, I'm
already weird. So like, while we're watching this one, guy, like,
I was very aware of my surroundings in this one.
That's why I noticed the guy got up in a
huff and stormed out and pushed pushed the door so hard.
(39:46):
I heard it all the way up there and went,
oh my god, Like it scared me. I was like,
oh God, is this it?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Like? Not like this, not like this?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Please?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I mean, I'd kind of forgotten, forgotten about the entire
storyline and the news of just oh but what if
the in cels see it? Yeah, it was like what
happened in the first Joker run a Press.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, And and we found out that, like what the
in cels did with this one, when Todd Phillips came
out and said, by the way, all of you are crazy.
He's not really this character. This is a facade, and
blah blah blah, like he's very troubled. The in cels
got mad and review bombed it. Yeah, and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
But when you review bombing because they didn't make a
character evil enough to match your sense of relating to
that character, I think you need to go back to
the drawing board a little bit on how you're approaching
your life. But it's it's that that could be a problem,
that that may require talking to someone.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, and that poor fucker, by the way who stormed
out didn't even get to cool see the cool joke,
actual joker or anything. I know that part's head part.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
That part corrects me out too like it because he
was he left probably about if I had to bet
he left about fifteen minutes hour in something like that.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Uh yeah, I thought it was like thirty thirty five
minutes something like that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
It was somewhere like right before midpoint in my head.
And then just kind of symmetrically it is into that
just a little past it, you've got where I realized
that he was not coming back, uh huh. And then
everything after that I remember thinking, especially when the movie
starts to veer into really like some plot points hitting you,
you know, fast and fast and quick kit. I kept thinking,
I mean, man, we're just too bored to hang out
(41:29):
and okay, because stuff's really happening now.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I mean, yeah, you were the saving grace. And what
made me sit there and feel relatively comfortable was the
fact that the guy got up and stormed out and
we were on a matinee show and I'm like, you're
not gonna come back in and like shoot up a
theater full of like two and a half people, three people, whatever.
That's not really going to get your name so much
in the headlines, Like you're gonna want to hit like
(41:54):
a late night show.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You're yeah, that's a different kind of safety and numbers
entirely that you're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, Like if you came and you were like safety
and scarcity, I'm gonna I'm gonna kill some people if
this movie doesn't portrayed my hero the way I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Anyone who's not an American listening to us right now
is completely baffled. Uh No, that's an entire thought process.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No, I think, uh, like they know it from the outside,
You're right, but yeah, they know it from the outside.
I'm sure most people know. Like in America, we have
some shit that.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We have stuff to worry about.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, like I'm like marking exits and shit, and yeah
thinking about like okay, well if I hear that door
slam open again, I'm ducking in a way that like,
hopefully he'll realize I'm not here anymore. Maybe I got
mad and huffed out too.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
What's gonna be what's gonna suck about this? There's like
we have kind of vilified this guy as some version
of shady, toxic fan ze, possibly a celebrity want to
be kind of thing, and we're just gonna find out
in reality that he got a text about his daughter
going to the hospital or something. Right right, I had
to rush out, and he's been mad about it all
day because he really was enjoying the movie.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, hey, man, if you are listening to the show
and uh, you know you were at you if you
were at the Regal sixteen.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And made an hour into the review of that.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
At the noon showing and it was something else like
your mom died or something, just let us know all
the condulence doing personal.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Uh, you'll have an apology on Spotify, so help me.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Absolutely absolutely you'll have it. Absolutely Yeah, Well, absolutely apologize
to you.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
You can stream it anywhere you like with the rest
of our show.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
But you know, there's a certain expectation when you see
something like that, after you've been getting notifications after notification
all day everywhere. He looks people being like angry. The
Joker too. Didn't have him be this like godlike anarchist. Yeah,
they nerved him.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
By the way, that's a word I've been really annoyed
with lately, Like it's been going around, Like I first
noticed that people complaining about how they changed Hulk's character
in the see you're oh, they nerved them, they nerved them.
They they made him a pussy, they nerved him. And
now I'm hearing about Joker.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I'm like, Jesus Christ, y'all, that is a term I
don't think I've heard since the last time. I mean,
I honestly, that may be the Insail's coming back in
a way, like I I just looked like a term
I only hear in certain I don't know areas.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
The Jordan Peterson alpha male kind of nozzles a little
bit the the exact bad guys in She Hulk.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Actually, uh yeah, the actual process of nerving is about
the most natural thing that could happen in any kind
of writing like this.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Mm hm. You over power a character getting all excited
as a writer, and you eventually have to pull it
back a little bit. Like we have been doing this
literally since the Yellow Sun and Kryptonite m R.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, I've never been able to forgive DC since the
old radio show of Adventures of Superman where they introduced
crypt thing.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, at that.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Point, he nerved They then they made it it's word
magic folks with him too.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, there's like, here's the thing. If I run into
that guy who's actually still mad about those things, yeah,
that og has my respect.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, he has my respect because, first of all, because
I want to know his uh you know red Yeah,
I want to know.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
How he's alive to complain about that fifteen.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah really, Like so you were there, Yeah, you were
there to be upset that Superman guy woke and nerved. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I watched c your and shows lose their jobs. Yeah
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, Well he gave Lois for props on one episode.
That fucking pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah. If I actually run into that guy's he he
gets to say that that one dude gets to gets
to complain about they actually like nerved Superman. You okay,
you get to everybody else can fuck off a little bit.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah. The one time Lois actually like turned around and
didn't need saving. Back in the forties, he got mad
and said the.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Du Yeah, I haven't watched anything since.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I'll never read a funny book again. They really are
right unrealistic stopped his heart.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Then it's never beaten again. Therefore he's still alive.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
He's undead.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Really Yeah, at this one, I want that guy to die.
Never mind, he's lost my respect to you. You've kind
of taken that from me now, Yeah, just fleshed it
out too much.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, For some reason, the bit in the movie where
like Arthur stops signing the book, right, I hope you
get cancer shows up in my mind. Jesus God knows,
I did.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I forget what the guard said that tipped him off.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It'll be it'll be uh, it'll be worth a ship
ton once the once they fries as something like that.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Okay, he I knew he was getting the signature, and
I knew Arthur knew he was getting the signature. I
just I missed the audio yonder or something. I don't know, right,
I didn't catch what he said about what was so
egregious about that?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Yeah, after they Oh my god, and I haven't brought
it up yet. I don't know. I'm sure we reported
it on this show. I forgot that Brendan Gleeson was
in it. It's just the guard Jackie.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I saw him and was like, please don't just be
a cameo. Please don't just be a please please be
And I was so happy, like that dude in Bruge,
that dude in the bands. She's a a shearing like
so many movies. Like he's so good, he's so good.
I think you leaned over and you said something about,
like I love him everything I've seen him, and I
want to slit his throat.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, he's so good, but I swear every time I
see his face by the end of whatever that product is,
I want him dead. It's not everything, it's that time.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
But actually, both of the things I mentioned, I really
like this curious she's a sheer and like he's best
friends with Colin Farrell and like Colin Ferrell comes up
to talk to him, he's just like he just like,
I won't talk to you anymore. And he tells him,
like we're not friends no more?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
He said, but why why? How are we friends anymore?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
He's like, I just don't fucking like you anymore. Just
let me the fuck alone, you know. And then like
he keeps like bugging them, harassing and one to please
be my friend. I don't know what did I do.
I just don't like it no more. If you talk
to me one more time, I'm gonna cut off a
fucking finger. And then he keeps doing it, and so
he just every time he talks to him, he cuts off.
And he's a fiddler, so he's like ruining his own livelihood.
(48:12):
But he's like cutting off his fucking fingers, and like
he like just walks across the entire island and goes
to his buddy's house and like they hear a thunk
and they open the door and it's just a finger
laying there. It's so good. It's such a good movie.
It's such a good movie.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
That was one of the That was a movie where
I kind of turned it on and then it was
over and I didn't realize what had happened. I didn't
I didn't realize I had done that. I kind of
accidentally watched that movie.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
I mean, it was a dark comedy.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I enjoyed it. I didn't exactly know what to do
with it as a genre when I was done.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
It is a dark comedy that is really about the
futility of conflict and the futility of war because the
backdrop on the neighboring island.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Is quite literally a war, a war going on. Yeah it,
I mean, it was good movie and I enjoyed it.
I just turned it on to see what was going
on with like I always talking about this, let me
just watch a few minutes. Two hours later I finished it.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
I was, yeah, it was great. It was good and
dude very key and killed it.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Oh destroyed. Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I just wanted to I just wanted to hold his
life was around the body and cry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I have occasionally just inserted there goes that dream then
in my conversations, and a couple of people have actually
known what the fuck I was talking about because that
one was so popular.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
But there goes that dream then, Oh Jesus, that was
heartbreaking but hilarious somehow it was.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I didn't laugh a single I didn't. I didn't so
much to stort through my nose laugh while watching that movie.
But I yet understood that it was funny. It's one
of those it's funny, but you want to cry when
he says it. It's so sad because the dude's like
abused by his dad. He's the town idiot, Like, oh god, yeah, sorry,
Banishi's a mina share And if you haven't check that
ship out, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Scening here was no was no uh no worse uh
But yeah, I can't. I can't say enough about the
Gleason's acting. I loved it, and I was happy as
hell to see them here.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Not a sour note in the entire thing on the
acting I even got to see.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
I Don't Have one period.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
I loved that movie the like the only thing I
didn't like about the movie in any capacity really was
just the setting of it, being most particular, like I
hate that era of clothing. Oh so, I know it's
a period piece, but that doesn't mean I like it
any better when.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Like that. And like, I guess if you wanted to
shave the two hour eighteen, you probably could have cut
some of the length of the songs down a little bit,
but like, I don't need it. Yeah, I mean, they
were fine as they were, like it, I would probably
actually enjoy them more the second time, because the only
thing about I experienced watching that I think would be
different second time is that I would probably get more
time to play with the songs or to let them breathe,
(50:53):
because as the songs are happening, I find myself like
watching it now, I was going between the what is
reality a little bit. I'm also doing the little kind
of trying to figure out what the rules are about
what I'm well, that goes into the what's reality game,
But there's a little bit of rules about how the
characters are playing in there. That was different. But I
think I would actually just stop and enjoy the songs
(51:14):
a little bit more this time.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, I think second time I.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Was thinking about the fact that there were songs more
than I would have otherwise thought about it.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Second time I see it, I'll probably pay attention to
the lyrics more and probably and equate them more with
what is going on with the characters and what they're
trying to say in the movie.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
I'm not a lyrics gone first. Listen to anything in general,
Like if I could memorize an entire album without knowing
fifty percent of the lyrics, if if you hand me,
like a new fresh album from somebody that I'll I'll
know it note for note as far as the music goes,
and I'll know what the sounds are of the voice,
of course, but I won't look up the lyrics until
like several listens in. Yeah, it'll be That's a different
(51:52):
experience for me, which I enjoy it because then I
get to go play with the lyrics too. It's like
opening another hidden chest.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Yeah. For me, the music is just like kind of
the music is always going to be kind of chaostomy
because I don't quite understand music on a technical level,
but I understand writing.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
So, so I usually listen to lyrics first, but like
the first watch of like a movie, I'm trying to
grab pay attention to imagery as well. Yeah, so I'm
kind of hearing phrases, like my brain will glom onto
phrases and I'd be like, oh, that's tasty. I like that,
and just try to get an overall idea with the
imagery what they're going for. Yeah, and then later I'll
(52:31):
like really listen to the lyrics, and probably the third
or fourth time I watch it, I'll really pay attention
and I can do a lot of other things, but.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
The first time I hear a song in general, and
this applies very much to something like this, is I
hear very much the tone and connotation of it emotionally
before I hear, before I actually hear the actual thing
they're saying with their mouths, I'll hear what how they're
saying it. Yeah, when I'm listening to a song. So
this this version fit for me because I think if
I didn't have a single lyric or you just warbled
(53:01):
renouns so you couldn't hear anything, I would have gotten
the same thing out of those scenes at least mm hm,
Like I would have been fine with that. And that again,
I think that was just also part of the direction
and everyone who was involved in all of the music
design for this thing being really fucking good today.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, you know what, Like I was actually worried when
we got that report that they would just like throw
out the script and run away and talk and write
shit on a n apping I was like, Oh, this
is gonna be a bloody mess.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, you were very worried about that piece of news. Yeah, yeah,
I don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
I'm sorry. I thought it was a masterpiece. I thought
it was fantastic and if everyone shits on it, if
it doesn't make money, he wasn't planning on making another
one anyway, And I kind of think he was hoping
it didn't do well, because I don't think he was
to make another one. If it was a billion dollars,
they would want a third.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Oh yeah, for sure. Well to that end, that's a
good you know, made a take on you know what's
Todd Phillips's relation to the Joker in this movie is well,
y'all saw the Joker. You kind of made too much
of it in a certain way. The concept for you here.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I think that's what he did. I think that's absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Wrote himself out.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, I think he went the people who are gonna
who were who this is for, are gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
And the people who aren't are gonna fucking get what
they deserved.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Absolutely, I think I'm good.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
You want to end, ith, we should call it.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Go watch this movie.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
We'll probably end up residually talking about it for a
few weeks, just because I'm gonna enjoy the memories of
it from it.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeah, all right, Well, we'll probably be back in a
few days with some news, and until then, keep some
DC on your screen. Mike
You were listening to DC on screen.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm David c. Robertson Jason Goss sitting across from me. Uh, yeah,
we have seen Joker Faldy. I do, indeed, Uh I
if I knew it, and I'm sure I did.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh, we're going full spoiler. We don't care.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We are going full spoiler. If you haven't seen Joker Fawy,
I do you need to uh not listen to our
show for a minute. Go watch the movie. And I
do say go watch this movie because it can be spoiled,
and we will spoil it. There's I did not know
we were going to certain places in this movie.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh, spoilers will be out, and they'll be out with
vitriol too, because man, people pick sides before it even
came out.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
On this one, people pick sides. Look, I'll be honest.
I went to this movie not giving a shit. Yeah,
those credits rolled and I turned you and said, that
was fucking dope. Great, like and it's funny because like
the there was like maybe four people in the theater
we first got there, and about thirty thirty five minutes
(01:04):
into it, he stood up in a huff and left,
and Jason thought maybe he was going to get a
for a pee break or something.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I didn't catch the huf.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I did not. I did not he like there was
like a grunt huff, and I thought, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I just thought he too was forty yeah standing up?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah yeah, I thought that maybe at first. But when
he walked out, like the way he hit the door,
like I heard the door hit, I was like, oh no,
he just did not like that movie. Sure enough, he
never came back.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He did not. I realized about twenty minutes later that
I hadn't seen his profile over. I haven't looked down
the theater to see if he just decided he'd gotten
he'd get a closer seat on the way back.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
But yeah, so if, by the way, if we talked
about it on the show. This is why I continually
changed my stances on this show, because like I sat there,
I read Todd Phillips saying in those interviews this I
would really call a musical. I wouldn't call it a musical.
I wouldn't call it a musical. There's music, yes, they sing,
(02:01):
I wouldn't call it a musical. And I was like,
that's bullshit. He's just trying to get away with like
doing a musical without being calling it a musical. I
walked out of the theater going that wasn't a musical.
It wasn't like there was there were there was singing.
He had a few fantasy sequences.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I still think he roughly did what because all right,
so you were like afraid he was going to do that,
and I was more looking forward to the fact that
he was going to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, but I think he.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Effectively did that, but in a way that was pleasing.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I like musicals. I'm not scared of a musical. My
favorite movie is a musical. But yeah, uh, and it's
funny because High Fidelity is my other, like big top favorite,
and they're not a musical.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But there's a lot of music oriented works.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
In a record store. So I'm watching this thing and
going like, yeah, it is not a musical. There is
music here. And what I was mainly afraid of was,
you know, Todd trying to backtrack and just looking stupid
and being like, don't try to sell us some bullshit
(03:02):
when you're clearly just doing a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, but you thought he was copping out beforehandle. I
just did make him some safe space for himself.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I did, but you know, and I mean people have
different opinions on this. Clearly if you go online and
you start looking around, people are like, that was crap.
That was a musical. There was no Batman. No, I
didn't see. I was like, no, Todd absolutely told me
the truth. Like, there wasn't a ton of music. There
were some songs, but I loved it, Like I loved
(03:29):
how like in the real world when they were singing,
their voices were bad, and how when in the fantasy
world their voices were pretty good. Yeah, Like there was
a progression and as they went further, like even in
the fantasy the voices got better and better.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I thought that was neat, like as they're kind of growing.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The performances even about midway through, once they do the
sunny and chair kind of bit, like once they get
to about that area and he starts really filling out
his little middle space of these musicals. He really goes
you know, full hamm and bat and like in the
back end of it, like they're they are full on
motherfucking pieces at the end of it, like the mountain,
the kind of Gospelly mountain bit. Yeah, which incidentally, an
(04:11):
overall note about these someone who wrote them. I would
suspect Lady Garga was involved, but like good music for
the thing.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, good music in general, I mean score. I certain
ones were obviously songs that I knew, some some weren't.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean, you know you're gonna have one the Saints
as a as a theme frankly throughout the Honestly, the
song when the Saints Go March Again is basically a
character in this movie. And I dog all that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, I mean you're basically looking at the beginning of
a religion. Yeah, a little bit like and that was
one of the best things. I really loved this movie.
I think I think it was neat, you know. And
it was a scathing indictment of the people who went
and saw the first one and walked out thinking that
he was the hero. Yeah, like, yes, yes, he was
very shit on in society and yeah, fucking yeah he
(05:00):
the Robert de Niro got what he fucking deserved. Yeah. Also,
so does Arthur Fleck at the end of this movie,
because he did take it too far. And just because
you're mentally ill doesn't mean you should do take certain things.
You shouldn't go killing a bunch of.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Fuckers, you know, you just can't, so catchup.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It does catch up with you, and it does in
such a wonderful The.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Whole movie was gonna culminate in it catching up to it.
He was given the death sentence ef fact, they didn't
show up, but that was what was on the table.
So he was gonna be killed fried according to that
one guard. But I mean he was he was dying either,
which damn way. Yeah, but yeah, sure enough, that's the
big ending there is like, yeah, this this joker dies.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, Arthur Fleck dies. Yeah, And they make a point
of like there's I love that, like his attorney's trying
to get him off being like separate entity. Is this
a multiple personality kind of situation?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And their treatment of him is a bit of an
indictment on people who are like trying to make he is.
For the most part, I actually agree with their defense
in the sense that he is deeply troubled and needs
help rather than punishment. But you can tell that they're
trying to make the case he's got to participate in
his case and a little bit like all the leading questions, right,
(06:18):
and then those those are I believe that's baked in
the film. I'm very much on purpose, because he regurgitates
the wording word for word in the interview later with
the man who's much funnier than you would know if
you just saw this movie and has a way better
American accent than I thought. But yeah, he like he
uses the entire wording about like sight seeing lights and
(06:38):
everything kind of went black for a second. He's very
specifically is getting led by his legal team into this,
and you know, speaking the legal team, there's a lot
of thoughts with pretty much anything in this movie that
I would impact. But do you get the sense over
the course of like there's just scenes where he h
so this movie has a lot of leaving the camera
on people and letting him react. Yes, Like the film
(07:00):
could easily have been an hour and a half in
terms of what happened, there's two hours eighteen because you
get you're breathing with what.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Happened, and it kills me because we were walking in
and I was like, how is this thing not eighty
fucking minutes? Like I can't, how are we gonna do
two and eighteen?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean, in terms of the story, I could have
if you wanted.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
To dude, if I didn't have to pee, so bad.
I would have been fine, for it was gorgeous and
it was macabre and it was sad.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But one of the reactions I keep getting is that
he almost keeps looking at his legal team in a
way that's like you get the sense that he'll spare them,
like whatever is about to happen, Like they seem to
be actually treating them like a human. He seems to
recognize that they actually are trying to treat him like
a real person that needs help, and like that kind
(07:50):
of like with his friend there a Puddles, Yes, where
he they were nice to each other. He didn't hurt him,
just like he said that was the deal. He would
have left the lawyer alone too if that was in
the same situation. And then he gets choked up afterwards
because he didn't not hurt him after all. Yeah, he
faces his own consequences. Like that's part of the movies
charmed to me. Yeah, there is a very consequence heavy
(08:12):
movie he does.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And I love that, Like he winds up as Arthur
falling in love with Lee, and then we get to
the end and realize, no, she's not in love with Arthur,
She's in love with Joker. She's in love with something
that she created. Yeah, and like, so all these people
who are his followers, they're not they're not Arthur's followers.
They don't care about him. They are in love with
(08:33):
this idea.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
The fantasy they keep saying.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Right. It also kind of just sounds like God's taking
the piss out of the fandom, don't it's a little
bit I mean, like, oh, you you were mad because
he wasn't the Joker. Well, guess what, he's not the Joker.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, he's definitely not. That appears to be possibly a
trend that some of the all tours are gonna fight
back on some of the fandom, and honestly, at this
point it's due.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So yeah, fine, good with that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
But yeah, it's very much much. I mean, think about
at the end, so he everything you can possibly want.
In the moment of him being convicted, the guilty please
coming down, he gets freed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, bye bomb, Bye bomb.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
By the way, the one thing that I think the
movie gets comics accurate about the Joker is that, to
my estimation, the Joker's only real superpower is taking a
fucking beating. Yeah, and Arthur Fletch take a fucking beating.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Jesus by the way during the so the they're in
the courtroom getting the getting the guilty verdict, the bomb
goes off. Arthur stands up looking around. We see all
these people laying about. Did you notice Harvey Dent. Oh
for sure, It's subtle. It's there though, but it's there,
Like the appropriate side was facing where the bomb blast was. Yep,
(09:47):
that we got a bit of two face there.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He's awake but stunned.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
He's awake, stunned, groggy.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
But one half of that faces And I was pretty yeah,
it's a bit bult stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It was bit burn bit singed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And I think that's as close as you're going to
get to a nod to anything on this dand movie.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Oh definitely not though, because.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
For a nod to any kind of built extra you know,
expansion of the universe.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yes, and no. Like I thought it was fun in
the way that like I thought it was clever the
way that Todd you know in the first movie. Uh
you had the guy in the Joker mask who was
inspired and followed Wayne the Waynes down the alley and uh,
(10:33):
you know, well it was just perfectly happy to give
some rich twats what they deserve here. And I was
kind of like I kind of had a feeling because
we kept seeing this one guy as one inmate, like
watching everything Arthur was doing.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
With the levels of excitement or disappointment.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yes, being very very like hard on his sleeve a
little bit here, yeah, like very engaged, and I thought
he had had a bit of a grin to him,
and I went, oh, so like at the end of
the movie, that guard's like, you got a visitor, and
Arthur goes walking down that hallway and that guy shows
up and he's like, hey, Arthur, I just want to
tell you a quick joke, or I just want to
(11:14):
tell you a joke. Can you make it quick? Yeah,
I'll make it quick. Fucker stabs Arthur several times, goes
off over a few feet away and like cackling wildly
slits his own mouth, los himself, he ledgers himself. As
Arthur dies, I was just like, yeah, Todd Phillips actually said, no,
this is a Batman universe. You just didn't see the joker. Like,
(11:37):
but Bruce Wayne is a kid and he's growing up
right now, he's becoming orphan. He's orphaned. This is happening,
And we got a guy here in Arkham who was
inspired but ultimately disappointed by this guy because even the
joke he told about like the washed up fucking clown
who let everyone down, He's gonna get what he fucking deserves.
Same the same punchline that Arthur gave Murray before blowing
(12:03):
his brains out. I just loved it. Loved it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I mean I didn't at the moment I saw that
guy in the hallway, you know, you immediately put together
what scene you're about to watch here. I just wanted
to be like Arthur run.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, there is definitely a part of you that he
sits there and goes like you feel for Arthur because
you're like, dude, well, on the one.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Hand, he's done everything he's done, and he he certainly
needs to be dealt with in some capacity, helped in
isolated at least best.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The thing is, like I felt for Arthur the same
way Poddles did about the guy that Arthur killed.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He deserve deserve to die.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Like his Arthur's defense made such a good case with fair.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Peddles didn't deny the bullying. He just deserved that.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Right, but his his defense like worked on me, Like
when she was talking about, you know, the sexual abuse
and the beatings and all of this stuff from his childhood.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Fucking star in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely, absolutely, he may have. He may have walked if
she if he had, he actually he actually might have
also walked if he didn't just like confess that there's
no joker. There's clearly a joker. It's just that he
realized that. I think he realized that, you know, what,
he cared about him.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean, yeah, but in the course of like learning
about the idea of the joker, there's a few things
stood out.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
One.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, he I think he realizes he's not whatever that
is at some point and everyone's just pointed, she walks
away the crowd.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I think it was a.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Big part of that was Puddles. Yeah, Puddles broke them a.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Little bit broken. Yeah, he broke them down.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, Puddles broke them a little bit. But I think
the the big event was that his insanity got his
little sick vat in Jel killed and he heard it here,
he heard it happen. And I think him being broken
in that moment was what what the story was being
told was that that like he was so broken in
that moment that he saw his consequences. Yeah, and like,
I don't know, there was I think remorse for that
for that moment, but following him for something he's not. Yeah,
(13:58):
and for that moment that meant that, I mean, he's
just not going to be the Joker.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean he tried and for everything that he for
every way that everyone made him feel, he has now
become that. He says later as he's put on the stool.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Up, I was going to give an angry rant and
you like to this, there's still some steam in the
jokerendom when he's going to the court room that day,
but it it just it just leaves, and it just leaves.
At some point they leave him. The entire fantasy dies
as as she puts it, like and yeah, his his
little his little buddy didn't make it like it. He
abandons that. But the other things that stood out to
(14:32):
me is in particular, you know the scene with the
little mini riot when he gets back from the when
he's declared himself as lawyer, and yeah, it's just Arthur
in his always diminished form. They never make him seem
in any way imposing, I mean even in Joker for him,
he's he's slick, yeah, but he's not. And when he's
got a gun, he's he's unpredictable and that makes him dangerous,
(14:54):
but he's not imposing. Yeah, like he was not going
to win a fistfight with that dude in the hallway,
much less a knife fight with him unarmed.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But when he's when he has the makeup, the Joker
makeup on, even when he doesn't sometimes, but like when
you do see a shift like he does Christopher Reeve
that ship, he does, He very much does. He stops
slumping and starts standing up right like that when he
became the lawyer and he's walking around there and he
had the southern accent. Yeah, the accent work was like
(15:22):
all the way around, kill a mockingbird, fucking Andy Griffith.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Dad slips back into his real voice occasionally then he
goes to puddles and mocking the slightly caughtn accent like thing.
He Yeah, that accent works beautiful. But he's always he
I mean specifically, the way he kicks the door open
is the thing that all of us would imitate on
a Halloween night addressed as the Joker, you know, m hmm.
But there's something about his diminished form no matter where
(15:47):
you see him all this stuff happens around him. He
seems to be this this the pen in the grenade,
like he does the the thing that's so crazy, no
one would actually do it. He does it, but it's
always something little and it's not He doesn't call her rio.
He hasn't caused the city to overturn the city does
that to himself in the way they are the ledger,
that joker that they were trying to prove in that movie. Yeah,
but he only shot a couple of guys that were
(16:10):
builing him on a train. Everyone else interprets the joker
out of this, and he believes it to some extent,
but yeah, it fails him eventually. But I just love
the shot in particular of him up on the table
everyone riding around him. That shot was a lot. I
don't know that one really stood up to me as
how small he really is. So I think even with that,
(16:31):
with new you know, healthier, fresh faced joker, that kind
at the end, that may be the kind of person
who was a little bit more formidable to say a
batman wandered around and wanted to beat some people up. Yeah,
like maybe someone could actually put up a fight in
that sense, But that proto Joker is always going to
be a different thing. Like he's he's taken the mantle
from him and said, if you're tired of the fantasy,
(16:53):
I guess I'll run it as far as it'll go.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, but he was done. Yeah. It makes you wonder though,
like because like Lee didn't actually kill herself, you know,
she's I believe she did. Do you think she did?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I believe she did.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think that's well, we saw the gun at her head,
but then later we saw her smoking up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
We did. But I believe the you shortened your hair,
I believe is a I don't know. I think that's
a nod. I think there's a little bit of in
his head, kind of like the same way we did
at the end of the first one, where we were
wondering what's in his head what's not? In my version
of events, the way I interpreted that, I think he.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Went up the stairs and no one was there.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And no one was there, and he knew in his
heart what the rest of that conversation was, and of
course they went to look for him there. Of course
they did. The cops finding him, there would not be
a story flaw from me. Yeah, I think he either
maybe went up and saw her, found her maybe or
at least went up and thought he maybe knew what happened.
I don't know, but yeah, the idea about her hair
(17:46):
being shortened in particular, I thought that was a nod
to something that happened to her head.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, is I did wonder about that. That's an okay,
I like that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Take, And but to me that means that if that
is something happen in her head, then he would know
something specific. So it almost means that to me, he
actually maybe did go find her in the apartment.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm not sure though, that that would all be a
wild interpretation.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I also liked the well, you know, because I'm me
and because I'm a comic book fan, the fact that
they kind of set up the Joker, the actual Joker,
cackling and laughing and crackling, laughing, the whole nine. The
fact that they set that up makes me kind of
like and because she rejected Arthur for not being real
the real Joker, there's a there's an idea that I
(18:29):
like of her kind of being out there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And finds him glomming on to this new guy. I mean,
that would be a way to go with it. As
she she finds him, you know, realizes, no, that was
the real guy the whole time. This other guy just
held it for a minute. M h. And then and
if that's the case, yeah, she would take her little
nod to Harley outfit and go full fucking hard Quinn
with it. Which, by the way, there's actually a really
(18:55):
good amount of costume design stuck into these movies. Yeah,
the Joker franchise so far. Oh, the outfit alone was iconic.
How many ChEls did you see that on?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
God damn, I love fucking gagas Harley Quinn outfit at
the end. Yeah, I know that was in the trailers. Yeah,
I knew it was there already, but I really dug
it on screen she stands out in the crowd.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really will you know? I don't think we'll get another
one of these movies, Like, I think this is done.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I want it to be. It was. It was good
where it's down.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I you know, if they really wanted to, I think
they could, you know, if they wanted to, I think
they could pick up a few years later, you know,
with it'd say like this is all kind of rough backstory.
If they wanted, but I don't think they will. I
think it's done.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
If I was going to play a joke on everybody,
it'd be to do this one and then maybe pick
up one or two other Batman villains, still never have
the Batman involved, and then make a fifth film where
you have him. But at the twist ending get there
is he actually just goes fucking insane like he might
have instead of becoming Batman, right, and the whole franchise
ends on a whimperd He's just like, he's just in.
He's just actually a fucking lunatic who lost his parents.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, he's just in Arkham in the mid nineties. Yeah,
but no, you know, I really I think it's so
funny that people are having such a big problem with
this movie. I'm guessing because it's a musical, but also
because Batman's not in it. And I'm like, y'all, okay,
(20:16):
but like, you know, this is like, if this is
setting up a universe if you really want, if you
want it, like it's a neat little nod.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
It is a very weird cornerstone on which to build
the foundation of a Batman type universe. Yeah, to go
specifically so Joker and so surreal at the same time
and well surreal and real at the same time. So like, yeah,
we've got all the groundedness of watching him take a
beating and watching it have a toll in his body.
I mean he saw his shoulder really Like there's the grounded,
(20:48):
gritty Nolan esque version of this, but then there's also
a pretty wild interpretation of him in a lot of ways.
But yeah, I don't know, that's not going to turn
into just like a Batman asqu friend. That's going to
be spun out of that. No, And I don't know
how you would. I wouldn't. I don't. I wouldn't try
to predict what I wouldn't want to want in this
whole realm.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You know, I could sit all day and oh, I
don't want this, I don't want this. I do want this,
I do want this, but I don't know, like I
never know, Like I didn't think I wanted this movie,
and then it blew away, It blew me away, and
I was like, no, that was the perfect sequel, Like
it answered the questions that I wanted answered from the
first movie.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That was a good point.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I did want to know what happened to Sophia
and her daughter. I did want to know, you know,
what what Arthur's treatment looks like. I do want to know,
like what his trial looks like. And I'll be damned
we got it.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I wanted to know what the real body count was
by the end of Joker one. Yeah, so it was
for him, Yeah, but it very much could have been
a few other people we didn't know. I mean, like
I was happy to see that her and her daughter
were even alive, because one interpretation of the movie was
there not right. So yeah, it was good to see
at the end. I mean, I remember last our last review,
(21:59):
we had a lot of about what didn't didn't actually happen.
This one actually gave us the answers. I was very
happy about that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It gave us the answers, but also like I feel
like Todd turned around and said, look, this isn't just
a vacuum. We're not just throwing this some I p
names on some stuff. I've actually got a take here.
Bruce Wayne is still in his bat cave or in
his Wayne manor growing up. This guy just became the
real Joker.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, like he.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
He found he saw Arthur, was inspired, but found him
wanting took him out. H and now this has got
the guy who's gonna that Bruce is gonna have to
deal with for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And even if it doesn't have to be that, so
whether Lee's alive or not is irrelevant. It could still
be that this this guy saw her on the news,
He'll have a proto version of her in his head. Anyway,
someone else can inhabit that role as well.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Later.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Now we would lose one part of the cannon, in
some parts of the cannon at least because some versions
Harvey's friends with Bruce and not the age difference here
wouldn't work.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's not like, you know,
a one to one. But even the comics aren't you know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Like btas leaned heavily on Harvey and Bruce being friends,
right previously, it wasn't that big of a deal, like
it's around.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, it depends onwhat what you're looking at. I mean
sometimes they are contemporaries. Yeah, sometimes they're not.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But this is I mean, Paul Deini's one of the
first people that just said they were best. He's that
we're going to make a thing o it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
See, I love that though, because not only do you
I don't want to get off into old Ranton, but
why I love btas but Jesus Christ, I love the
idea of you know this, you know, clean cut dude
who has a dark past, but he's Bruce's best friend
and Bruce fails him in some capacity and he becomes
this villain. I love it. I love this shit.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It is a good twist, man. I like that interpretation
just fine.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I love the guilt that Bruce has over two Face.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
The one thing though, that like, if we took all
of these as protos and people gonna, you know, pull
up the baton Harvey is gonna be a hard one
to do, unless, I mean unless they do exactly the
same as the joker guy just did. Yeah, because I
mean he really is just mimicking what he saw on
his version's face, right. I guess if somebody would wanted
to be a you know, I'm gonna be the real
(24:17):
two Face, then you could go ascid, stay in your
own face.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You could, but you know it. You look at Gotham
and Harvey was a young prosecutor there, like while Bruce
is a little kid, and they kind of hinted at
Harvey's temper in uh in Gotham he would kind of
snap a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
He would and changed his voice and everything. And then
I don't know, I guess he fucked off the Blue Heaven.
In that show he was seen again.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I really liked that that actor was so good he was.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
It was a shame that one.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I would have loved to have seen more from
from him. He was great in Masters of Sex too,
who was there one? Yes he was, Yes, he was,
and he was fantastic. I love the cartoon intro.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I forgot about that, that me and my Shadow.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Thing that well. I mean, the Shadow is clearly the
dark the Joker persona, you know, trying to get away
from him, you know, lock them away and take control.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I mean I wondered when I so, when it first opens,
before we've gotten the rest of this movie to deal with,
just in that intro where he locks you know, the
real version in the coupveroared, you were already thinking at
that moment, Okay, well is this is this how he's
dealing with what he did? I mean that that cartoon
(25:40):
set you up very well for what we're about to do. Yeah,
and yeah, sure enough, the Shadow gets out kills a
bunch of people, but then turns out they have to
be together after all. I guess that's the only thing
that we don't see in the cartoon is him kill
the shadow almost.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, I mean, I mean that he just became one
with a shadow. I mean, like the cartoon did tell
us what was going to happen, Like we were going
to pretend that they're two separate entities, but Arthur at
the end goes, no, we're the same. Just fucked up.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I just realized the cartoons with an explosion, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think so? I think so that's interesting, see this
is about that. And I did, like I saw people complaining,
like Joker too starts with a fucking cartoon. I mean,
I just don't want to see this something I will
not see it. And I'm like, y'all are just so
over dramatic little cry babies.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Joker one was nothing but high concept all to her filmmaking. Bullshit,
Why did you walk into this one that was called
a musical starts with a cartoon and think you were
getting anything close to a normal movie Like this was
not gonna be.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That's that was my.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Main takeaway thing. I told you leave in the theater.
Was I got exactly what I paid for I expect.
I saw all of Tudd Phillips press press leading up
to the movie. He said it was gonna be a
certain thing. I walked out, and I thought that was
exactly the thing.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
That was pretty right. I believe you said what what
I was told I was going to get and what
I got in the Venn diagram is a complete circle.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yes, yeah, it very much is. Like I don't know,
I mean our real life example of dude just walking out,
I don't know what he was there for. I mean
a lot of people's knee jerk reactions right now feel
like are just their expectations kind of turning into resentment
kind of thing, Like they're they walked in expecting a
(27:30):
movie that they weren't told to expect. To some extent
and on its own merits, there's plenty to like or
not like about the movie. I mean, if you weren't
up for this kind of faux musical thing, yeah, then
I could see three four movie or you know, numbers
in just kind of going the same for me, or
if it's a little too dark in certain ways, I mean,
you probably should have seen that come from the first one.
(27:51):
But yeah, okay, or hell if it's not even killing
people fast enough early on in the movie, can almost
see that. But because i mean first half and second
half as far as actual you know action action goes
a couple of cop beatings aside in the first half,
there's kind of very little going on other than what
like one fantasy action little same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, there's a character study, man, very much so. Character study.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It's a film, a film, not a movie.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Examining expectations versus reality, examining the you know, fandoms, Yeah, followers,
cult followings like.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That was a nice point. Speaking of fantoms. He is
rescued by these people and climbs out of the car
hastily to escape them, to escape them because they're crazy,
because they're awful. I mean, we're we're interpreting a little
bit of that, but yeah, he gets out because they're
basically up there talking about yeah, man, we're gonna we're
gonna turn this whole thing on.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And said, we blew up the courthouse, We're gonna burn
the city to the ground. He's like, no, I.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Mean at the point part of that, yeah, and his
in his character art, he's just I just want to
get out of this thing and go see if I can. Finally,
that's all I want. Yeah, just didn't try to find her. Yeah,
he bounces on that one easily and quickly. The music itself,
you already hinted at it that they did a really
good job of. I almost spent some of the first
(29:12):
part of the movie trying to figure out what the
rules are, because there had to have been some right,
maybe you can't make a even I figured it could
be different for a lot of people. But I figure,
if you're going to make a movie like this that
plays with a couple of genres like that, you kind
of have to have some internal guidelines like, Okay, well,
when the music does this, we're going into the x
amount of reality. And when the music doesn't do that,
(29:33):
then we're still probably in reality.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
The one thing that I really noticed because sometimes in
reality and the real scenes where they're singing to each other,
there will still be music, the music cues or score
on those, Yeah, that goes along with the song. What
I've noticed, though, is the stuff that happened in real
life was very differentiated. Like you start seeing them sing together,
(29:56):
or he's singing on TV on the In the interview
Docapella Baby, there's acapella, but there's they still do put music,
but then they show people's reactions, and those reactions are
real world reactions, like the fuck is he singing about? Yeah,
you know, like, okay, well this is just bizarre, right, but.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Even and that's a funny reaction. Is one of the
things that made it because you do you spend some
of this movie deciding what to interpret as real. And
one of the reasons in that interview that I decided that, okay,
this is part of reality is the cops reaction of
all things, because he was so proud to hear the song.
You know, he's doing a job with it, you.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Know, yeah, yeah. But then, like I think there's a
very real differentiation when this stuff in his head, like
or their head where.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Their orchestration comes in the.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Orchestration, they're in a completely different setting. It's like Sonny
and Chair. It's you know, a wedding venue thing of
you know, there's production behind it. It's it's very very different.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And alone he puts on the makeup in his fantasies
right for most of it.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And that's that's another reason, Like I don't think is
a musical because it doesn't have the rules of the musical.
The musical's rules generally are whether or not they're original
songs for that production or covers. People break into fucking song,
everyone gets in on it, they dance. There's a whole
thing reality for that film is that people break into
(31:20):
song and do shit.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That's a conceit. You just got to deal with it.
When you walked into the theater.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
That is not here in this that is not part
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, it's very different. I mean, you know when you've
walked into a you know, Hammerstein piece or something that like,
you know when they start, you just know when they
start the song, it's gonna be you know, the literal
lights are going to turn off on the side of
the stage. Yeah, it's a whole production literally.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So in this he starts singing, people look at him
like he's fucking crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, and I think I'm like, there's at least one
mislead where you look at him crazy, But then we're
all going to lean into it. He's going to keep
singing that is what's actually happening. Yeah, and then there's
other ones where we're gonna find out in a second
that he's doing that in his head and you do
have to just keep watching to figure out which one
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I do completely love though, how throaty and real and broken.
A lot of their singing his early, especially in the
most reality you know.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, it's heart rending. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I mean, Joe King has an okay voice, but he's
he's gonna have a range. Of course, did a great
job of keeping him in range when they want him
to sound a certain way, and really letting him push
where it hurts his voice, out where you know, he
could probably vocal train out of that, but that that's
not what you want for this.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
A lot of interviews I've been saying kind of indicate that,
I mean, they fly out said that, like god, God,
they had to like work with her to like not sound.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It sounds good.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, can you just like fucking be broken? How many
CTEs you know that sound amazing? Yeah? Half a second please,
Well we'll get there. Yeah, you'll be seeing at.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The end when he's kind of grabbing a face and
trying to get her not to sing. Yeah, which, by
the way, well two things one in reality, when he's
that close to her and she sounds that good. That
as that that's actually her singing like that. That's her
not that you know, not having to fuck up her
voice basically, but something that I think goes to my
theory about.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, she sounded really great.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
There, sounded really good. And sheep he keeps messing with
her mouth and you don't hear any kind of like right, and.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
He's begging her to stop. Yeah, because that means she's imaginary.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Fuck, that's so good. That's so good.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That's a nice fun that's a fun bit.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Hey, Dave, Here, before we jump back into our review
of Joker Folio, do i'd like to tell you that
we also recorded a really fun conversation for Patreon. You know,
just a light rambling about why ghosts aren't ever described
as floating or translucent before the nineteen hundreds aliens, controversial
AI opinions, hopeful outcomes for our eventual fall to the
(33:55):
AI Empire, among many other things. We had fun talking.
We hope you have fun listening. It's just one of
the extras you get when you're a five dollars patron
Patreon dot com slash DC on screen. Yes, there is
a link in the show notes and that episode will
be up sometime this week. It might even be up
right now. If you've waited to listen to a review
so I don't know, go check it out. Also, if
(34:17):
you want, you can join our Patreon for free. You
can join it for a dollar. That way you'll get
every episode add free. There are options. That's all I'm saying.
Back to the show. I'm sorry, man, I don't know
what your problems are. I don't know if it's I
don't know if it's a fan entitlement. I'm not mad
at you either way. If you hated this movie, I
don't know if it's like weird alpha male, I can't
watch the musical, or I'm gay. I don't know what
(34:38):
the problem is. But this is a great movie. It was.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I'm gonna insist, like if we're gonna make a difference
between the words, this is a film, not a movie.
If you want to actually sit down and watch something,
It'll take me a long time to want to watch
this again. Mm hmm. I don't need to. I've got
I mean, I can, It's not like I've got every
frame memorize. There's plenty. I can go and watching list
and and love more. But I won't need to. I
won't have the like emotional capacity to sit down and
(35:05):
do that again for a second.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, I'll need to.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I need to let that breathe.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, this will be like a thing where like I'm
gonna get this Blu ray and I'm gonna like put
on Joker and then Joker too, yeah, back to back
one day in like two years. Yeah, and just make
a day of it and just sit there and like
just really get absorbed, just get absorbed as ship. Like Beth,
you will be out of town. I'mays just I'm just
(35:30):
gonna I'm gonna ordering food or something and I'll just
sit there and just watch it and.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Just pizza and sparkling water and we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, just like die on ashes over this, over these depressing,
wonderful movies.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
But yeah, plot wise, nothing nothing left behind. I don't
think so performance wise that all of these people should
be they should be pelted with awards. Yeah, and any
number of technical aspects of this that should be pelted
with awards. It just genuinely well made quality film.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
At this point. I shouldn't I have to say it,
but I know Rotten Tomatoes is sitting at about forty five,
fuck them, fuck rotten Domatos.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I mean that that's a standard, a maximum for us.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Even this is a fantastic film, I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Care genuinely is it's a I think, like I said,
I think it really is expectations. I think if you
went in expecting to see the movie that you were
told to go watch, you can have varying levels of
how much you did or didn't like it. But it's
not going to be forty five percent good. I think
it's gonna be seventy or something. It may not be
the best one you've ever seen, but unless you were
(36:30):
just betrayed by your own expectations of not seeing a
musical or seeing too much of one yeah, or not
seeing Batman even though we told you it's not gonna
happen mm hmm, I think you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
And this is like a perfect example of like how
an era can it? Can it be like not all bad? Like?
Because this is I think this is the final one.
This is the final movie, the final pre Gun development movie, gotcha.
I think it was even in production before Gun took over.
This is the final one of the Hamada era.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And I think I'm going to maybe start defining that
in my head as pre year, post the formation of
DC Studios.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, this is the final like pre DC Studios.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Wanner Brothers, before we decided we had to have a
thing for it, right, and we were just tried our
best to make.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You know, DCEU Aquaman whatever you think about that. For me,
that era went out on a fucking banger, dude, this
was sense.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah that was if that was the way we went out,
then yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
It yielded some interesting crops.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Which is fun because in one sense, I you know,
I've always thought the funniest thing was watching you know,
the Aquaman end and just what I guess this this
whole universe ends, universe of characters or portrayals, whatever you
want to do with it is I guess gonna peter
out with or meeting a cockroach burger.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
But the era ends with but the production Aire Supose
ends with Arthur Fleck, Yeah, dying on a floor, bleeding
out little little bits of little choices that were good
include did you catch the blood in his mouth when
he's singing at the end in the Fantasy? Oh well
she had shot him in the Fantasy too.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
She had show him in Fantasy too, And yeah, that
was going to play in He goes back to that
same spot, that same moment, but they cut from it.
You never see past that moment in the original fantasy.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Just works up.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
But he yeah, he uh at the very end there,
like there's real blood in his fantasy mouth. M h
as he's as he's dying. It got a hell of
a portrayal, man, he looks so frail, the.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Entire t look. I said two years. I'll be honest,
I might watch this again with Bethany when it comes
out on Max, when it hits Max or wherever it hits. Yeah,
because I kind of want to watch it again. I
don't want to pay money who go see it. I
think I had limits, but well, I mean it's a
very specific type of film, like it's it's a film,
(38:55):
as you said, it's you know, there's a lot to
think of.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
It requires space, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And also, I'll be honest, like I don't I felt
just as I honestly felt just as nervous seeing this
one as I did the first one, but for slightly
different reasons, because you know, there was so much to
be said about, Like there were a lot of people
are like, oh my god, people are gonna freak out
with this movie. Like, people are gonna get violent watching
(39:22):
this movie. They're gonna be inspired by it. A lot
of people were afraid of that, and I was a
little I'm already weird ever since that fucker came in
and shot up Dark Knight Rises in the theater, I'm
already weird. So like, while we're watching this one, guy, like,
I was very aware of my surroundings in this one.
That's why I noticed the guy got up in a
huff and stormed out and pushed pushed the door so hard.
(39:46):
I heard it all the way up there and went,
oh my god, Like it scared me. I was like,
oh God, is this it?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Like? Not like this, not like this?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Please?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I mean, I'd kind of forgotten, forgotten about the entire
storyline and the news of just oh but what if
the in cels see it? Yeah, it was like what
happened in the first Joker run a Press.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, And and we found out that, like what the
in cels did with this one, when Todd Phillips came
out and said, by the way, all of you are crazy.
He's not really this character. This is a facade, and
blah blah blah, like he's very troubled. The in cels
got mad and review bombed it. Yeah, and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
But when you review bombing because they didn't make a
character evil enough to match your sense of relating to
that character, I think you need to go back to
the drawing board a little bit on how you're approaching
your life. But it's it's that that could be a problem,
that that may require talking to someone.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, and that poor fucker, by the way who stormed
out didn't even get to cool see the cool joke,
actual joker or anything. I know that part's head part.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
That part corrects me out too like it because he
was he left probably about if I had to bet
he left about fifteen minutes hour in something like that.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Uh yeah, I thought it was like thirty thirty five
minutes something like that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
It was somewhere like right before midpoint in my head.
And then just kind of symmetrically it is into that
just a little past it, you've got where I realized
that he was not coming back, uh huh. And then
everything after that I remember thinking, especially when the movie
starts to veer into really like some plot points hitting you,
you know, fast and fast and quick kit. I kept thinking,
I mean, man, we're just too bored to hang out
(41:29):
and okay, because stuff's really happening now.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I mean, yeah, you were the saving grace. And what
made me sit there and feel relatively comfortable was the
fact that the guy got up and stormed out and
we were on a matinee show and I'm like, you're
not gonna come back in and like shoot up a
theater full of like two and a half people, three people, whatever.
That's not really going to get your name so much
in the headlines, Like you're gonna want to hit like
(41:54):
a late night show.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You're yeah, that's a different kind of safety and numbers
entirely that you're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, Like if you came and you were like safety
and scarcity, I'm gonna I'm gonna kill some people if
this movie doesn't portrayed my hero the way I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Anyone who's not an American listening to us right now
is completely baffled. Uh No, that's an entire thought process.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No, I think, uh, like they know it from the outside,
You're right, but yeah, they know it from the outside.
I'm sure most people know. Like in America, we have
some shit that.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We have stuff to worry about.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, like I'm like marking exits and shit, and yeah
thinking about like okay, well if I hear that door
slam open again, I'm ducking in a way that like,
hopefully he'll realize I'm not here anymore. Maybe I got
mad and huffed out too.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
What's gonna be what's gonna suck about this? There's like
we have kind of vilified this guy as some version
of shady, toxic fan ze, possibly a celebrity want to
be kind of thing, and we're just gonna find out
in reality that he got a text about his daughter
going to the hospital or something. Right right, I had
to rush out, and he's been mad about it all
day because he really was enjoying the movie.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, hey, man, if you are listening to the show
and uh, you know you were at you if you
were at the Regal sixteen.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And made an hour into the review of that.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
At the noon showing and it was something else like
your mom died or something, just let us know all
the condulence doing personal.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Uh, you'll have an apology on Spotify, so help me.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Absolutely absolutely you'll have it. Absolutely Yeah, Well, absolutely apologize
to you.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
You can stream it anywhere you like with the rest
of our show.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
But you know, there's a certain expectation when you see
something like that, after you've been getting notifications after notification
all day everywhere. He looks people being like angry. The
Joker too. Didn't have him be this like godlike anarchist. Yeah,
they nerved him.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
By the way, that's a word I've been really annoyed
with lately, Like it's been going around, Like I first
noticed that people complaining about how they changed Hulk's character
in the see you're oh, they nerved them, they nerved them.
They they made him a pussy, they nerved him. And
now I'm hearing about Joker.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I'm like, Jesus Christ, y'all, that is a term I
don't think I've heard since the last time. I mean,
I honestly, that may be the Insail's coming back in
a way, like I I just looked like a term
I only hear in certain I don't know areas.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
The Jordan Peterson alpha male kind of nozzles a little
bit the the exact bad guys in She Hulk.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Actually, uh yeah, the actual process of nerving is about
the most natural thing that could happen in any kind
of writing like this.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Mm hm. You over power a character getting all excited
as a writer, and you eventually have to pull it
back a little bit. Like we have been doing this
literally since the Yellow Sun and Kryptonite m R.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, I've never been able to forgive DC since the
old radio show of Adventures of Superman where they introduced
crypt thing.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, at that.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Point, he nerved They then they made it it's word
magic folks with him too.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, there's like, here's the thing. If I run into
that guy who's actually still mad about those things, yeah,
that og has my respect.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, he has my respect because, first of all, because
I want to know his uh you know red Yeah,
I want to know.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
How he's alive to complain about that fifteen.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah really, Like so you were there, Yeah, you were
there to be upset that Superman guy woke and nerved. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I watched c your and shows lose their jobs. Yeah
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, Well he gave Lois for props on one episode.
That fucking pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah. If I actually run into that guy's he he
gets to say that that one dude gets to gets
to complain about they actually like nerved Superman. You okay,
you get to everybody else can fuck off a little bit.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah. The one time Lois actually like turned around and
didn't need saving. Back in the forties, he got mad
and said the.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Du Yeah, I haven't watched anything since.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I'll never read a funny book again. They really are
right unrealistic stopped his heart.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Then it's never beaten again. Therefore he's still alive.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
He's undead.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Really Yeah, at this one, I want that guy to die.
Never mind, he's lost my respect to you. You've kind
of taken that from me now, Yeah, just fleshed it
out too much.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, For some reason, the bit in the movie where
like Arthur stops signing the book, right, I hope you
get cancer shows up in my mind. Jesus God knows,
I did.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I forget what the guard said that tipped him off.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It'll be it'll be uh, it'll be worth a ship
ton once the once they fries as something like that.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Okay, he I knew he was getting the signature, and
I knew Arthur knew he was getting the signature. I
just I missed the audio yonder or something. I don't know, right,
I didn't catch what he said about what was so
egregious about that?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Yeah, after they Oh my god, and I haven't brought
it up yet. I don't know. I'm sure we reported
it on this show. I forgot that Brendan Gleeson was
in it. It's just the guard Jackie.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I saw him and was like, please don't just be
a cameo. Please don't just be a please please be
And I was so happy, like that dude in Bruge,
that dude in the bands. She's a a shearing like
so many movies. Like he's so good, he's so good.
I think you leaned over and you said something about,
like I love him everything I've seen him, and I
want to slit his throat.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, he's so good, but I swear every time I
see his face by the end of whatever that product is,
I want him dead. It's not everything, it's that time.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
But actually, both of the things I mentioned, I really
like this curious she's a sheer and like he's best
friends with Colin Farrell and like Colin Ferrell comes up
to talk to him, he's just like he just like,
I won't talk to you anymore. And he tells him,
like we're not friends no more?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
He said, but why why? How are we friends anymore?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
He's like, I just don't fucking like you anymore. Just
let me the fuck alone, you know. And then like
he keeps like bugging them, harassing and one to please
be my friend. I don't know what did I do.
I just don't like it no more. If you talk
to me one more time, I'm gonna cut off a
fucking finger. And then he keeps doing it, and so
he just every time he talks to him, he cuts off.
And he's a fiddler, so he's like ruining his own livelihood.
(48:12):
But he's like cutting off his fucking fingers, and like
he like just walks across the entire island and goes
to his buddy's house and like they hear a thunk
and they open the door and it's just a finger
laying there. It's so good. It's such a good movie.
It's such a good movie.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
That was one of the That was a movie where
I kind of turned it on and then it was
over and I didn't realize what had happened. I didn't
I didn't realize I had done that. I kind of
accidentally watched that movie.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
I mean, it was a dark comedy.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I enjoyed it. I didn't exactly know what to do
with it as a genre when I was done.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
It is a dark comedy that is really about the
futility of conflict and the futility of war because the
backdrop on the neighboring island.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Is quite literally a war, a war going on. Yeah it,
I mean, it was good movie and I enjoyed it.
I just turned it on to see what was going
on with like I always talking about this, let me
just watch a few minutes. Two hours later I finished it.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
I was, yeah, it was great. It was good and
dude very key and killed it.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Oh destroyed. Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I just wanted to I just wanted to hold his
life was around the body and cry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I have occasionally just inserted there goes that dream then
in my conversations, and a couple of people have actually
known what the fuck I was talking about because that
one was so popular.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
But there goes that dream then, Oh Jesus, that was
heartbreaking but hilarious somehow it was.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I didn't laugh a single I didn't. I didn't so
much to stort through my nose laugh while watching that movie.
But I yet understood that it was funny. It's one
of those it's funny, but you want to cry when
he says it. It's so sad because the dude's like
abused by his dad. He's the town idiot, Like, oh god, yeah, sorry,
Banishi's a mina share And if you haven't check that
ship out, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Scening here was no was no uh no worse uh
But yeah, I can't. I can't say enough about the
Gleason's acting. I loved it, and I was happy as
hell to see them here.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Not a sour note in the entire thing on the
acting I even got to see.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
I Don't Have one period.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
I loved that movie the like the only thing I
didn't like about the movie in any capacity really was
just the setting of it, being most particular, like I
hate that era of clothing. Oh so, I know it's
a period piece, but that doesn't mean I like it
any better when.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Like that. And like, I guess if you wanted to
shave the two hour eighteen, you probably could have cut
some of the length of the songs down a little bit,
but like, I don't need it. Yeah, I mean, they
were fine as they were, like it, I would probably
actually enjoy them more the second time, because the only
thing about I experienced watching that I think would be
different second time is that I would probably get more
time to play with the songs or to let them breathe,
(50:53):
because as the songs are happening, I find myself like
watching it now, I was going between the what is
reality a little bit. I'm also doing the little kind
of trying to figure out what the rules are about
what I'm well, that goes into the what's reality game,
But there's a little bit of rules about how the
characters are playing in there. That was different. But I
think I would actually just stop and enjoy the songs
(51:14):
a little bit more this time.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, I think second time I.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Was thinking about the fact that there were songs more
than I would have otherwise thought about it.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Second time I see it, I'll probably pay attention to
the lyrics more and probably and equate them more with
what is going on with the characters and what they're
trying to say in the movie.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
I'm not a lyrics gone first. Listen to anything in general,
Like if I could memorize an entire album without knowing
fifty percent of the lyrics, if if you hand me,
like a new fresh album from somebody that I'll I'll
know it note for note as far as the music goes,
and I'll know what the sounds are of the voice,
of course, but I won't look up the lyrics until
like several listens in. Yeah, it'll be That's a different
(51:52):
experience for me, which I enjoy it because then I
get to go play with the lyrics too. It's like
opening another hidden chest.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Yeah. For me, the music is just like kind of
the music is always going to be kind of chaostomy
because I don't quite understand music on a technical level,
but I understand writing.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
So, so I usually listen to lyrics first, but like
the first watch of like a movie, I'm trying to
grab pay attention to imagery as well. Yeah, so I'm
kind of hearing phrases, like my brain will glom onto
phrases and I'd be like, oh, that's tasty. I like that,
and just try to get an overall idea with the
imagery what they're going for. Yeah, and then later I'll
(52:31):
like really listen to the lyrics, and probably the third
or fourth time I watch it, I'll really pay attention
and I can do a lot of other things, but.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
The first time I hear a song in general, and
this applies very much to something like this, is I
hear very much the tone and connotation of it emotionally
before I hear, before I actually hear the actual thing
they're saying with their mouths, I'll hear what how they're
saying it. Yeah, when I'm listening to a song. So
this this version fit for me because I think if
I didn't have a single lyric or you just warbled
(53:01):
renouns so you couldn't hear anything, I would have gotten
the same thing out of those scenes at least mm hm,
Like I would have been fine with that. And that again,
I think that was just also part of the direction
and everyone who was involved in all of the music
design for this thing being really fucking good today.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, you know what, Like I was actually worried when
we got that report that they would just like throw
out the script and run away and talk and write
shit on a n apping I was like, Oh, this
is gonna be a bloody mess.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, you were very worried about that piece of news. Yeah, yeah,
I don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
I'm sorry. I thought it was a masterpiece. I thought
it was fantastic and if everyone shits on it, if
it doesn't make money, he wasn't planning on making another
one anyway, And I kind of think he was hoping
it didn't do well, because I don't think he was
to make another one. If it was a billion dollars,
they would want a third.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Oh yeah, for sure. Well to that end, that's a
good you know, made a take on you know what's
Todd Phillips's relation to the Joker in this movie is well,
y'all saw the Joker. You kind of made too much
of it in a certain way. The concept for you here.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I think that's what he did. I think that's absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Wrote himself out.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, I think he went the people who are gonna
who were who this is for, are gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
And the people who aren't are gonna fucking get what
they deserved.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Absolutely, I think I'm good.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
You want to end, ith, we should call it.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Go watch this movie.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
We'll probably end up residually talking about it for a
few weeks, just because I'm gonna enjoy the memories of
it from it.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeah, all right, Well, we'll probably be back in a
few days with some news, and until then, keep some
DC on your screen. Mike
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