Superman Through the Ages

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to DC on Screen.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
How you doing? Welcome into DC on Screen. I am
your co host today, David c. Roberson, and this your host,
Jason Goss.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, try to change my hello? Is that is that bigger?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah? A little bit.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
I mean I was barely paying attention to it.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, you really are the host, because that's what I
do every episode.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Just got it an auto polished, barely fucking.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Pay attention man. Uh all right, So a few months
ago you came to me with this idea and it
seemed very involved, and I was like, I ain't got
the bandwidth. You're going to have to take it, and
I mean it's it sounds cool. So like Chris Hansen,
what are we doing here today?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
What we still don't know? Where we've taken it? Now,
I'm gonna start too, what.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Are we doing here today? Yeah? I have the emails
about the ropes.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Right, and much like that, I'm gonna also claim to
have no plan.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Are you aware that this is a ten year old podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah? I will also be asking how do you feel
about things? And reciting incidents from from our history. So
it's not it's not wrong. The the important part is
where there's no real There is no real plan. What
I wanted to do though, was just kind of go
through We had some weird discussions, but I started thinking

(01:41):
about when we often do. But that started really kind
of thinking about some of the history of of just
like when we're when we're going through this era where
we were about to meet a new supercol and you know,
we have a lot going on. What I started wondering
was just it's not the first time that we've met him,
Like we've we've met a new Superman before, different areas have,

(02:03):
different generations have But I just kind of wanted to
see what the other what it was like for some
of the other generations to go through this. It's been
going on for a while. We've we've been privy to
a couple ourselves more than a couple, yeah, at least those.
But yeah, no real plan, no real no real point
I'm trying to prove here. I just want to go
through them and kind of see where your head would

(02:24):
be as we went.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
My head is generally yay Superman.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, I'm not terribly deep man.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, I mean all right, so what we'll do. What
we'll do is we'll we'll start with with where we're
kind of began. But one of this one of the
things is this is and we have some stories from
some listener, not so much stories. There's a set of
questions and some answers that are going which I haven't
ready through, so that'll be interesting. They're kind of categorized

(02:55):
about where they should be, but we'll I'll explain that
as we go to. What we're gonna go do is
kind of go through the history. We're gonna start with
Kirk Allen. I'm basically just gonna explain what things were
like a little bit, how things got distributed, kind of
explained who he was, and then see what you think
about a couple of things. But obviously, you know, we're
not going to have any personal stories that met Kirk

(03:17):
Allen asked their first their their go to Superman. Those
are gonna come later in the story. Any questions before
we go, I.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Don't think so. I'm just I'm curious, is what we're
doing exactly?

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Have a property? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna start. We're
gonna start a while back. So you know, Kirk, you've
seen these as well.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I have not. I've seen big chunks of them, but
I haven't seen them.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's how I describe it yet. Yeah, But so we're
gonna start with kind of where things were at the time.
So the early Superman serials Kirk Allen so nineteen forty
and nineteen fifty roughly where these aired or where you
could have found him originally, this is when we would
have first met on screen a supermum, and that was
what I wanted to focus on, was just you know,

(04:02):
meeting a new face and kind of what that what
that face is meeting when it sees us. Like, part
of what got me curious so much is you know,
in our in our time. When we met Snyder's version
in twenty thirteen of Cavel, I just had a different idea.
I was in a different place. Meeting him was a
different kind of thing. We swapped corn Sweat versus Cavel

(04:22):
right now. I don't know how it goes a different situation, but.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, Corn Sweat would be start. He would have been
too young to man.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
I don't think he would have filled out the city
at all. Yeah. Yeah, I did see someone someone at
some point mentioned that, like they just watched a Superman
who like was born when they graduated high school and
they're still dealing with that, but it was awesome. Uh huh, yeah,
I haven't actually bothered to look up how old he is.
It does scare me, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Mean he's he was twenty nine when he was cast.
He was the same age Cavell was when he was cast.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
That does feel about right? That is right, roughly the
right age to have somebody on screen this. Yeah, so
all right, let's go, let's head back. So we're gonna
go to nineteen forty eight, rough right, okay, right, just
the rough landscape you got here. So we just got
out of for like World War two? Soldiers are brack?
Did we get like a gi bill if you remember
anything about what that was? Roughly there was just you know,
a bunch of free money for gs war was basically

(05:20):
just everything that you were still talking about. We were
just starting the Cold War, so that was gonna be fun. Communism,
big deal there. Right, We're getting out of World War Two,
re entering another little colder one. Truman was the president
of Churchill Stalin Gandhi. These are still people that are
in daily news at the time nineteen forty eight. These
are literally the people that you would read about the most.
And that's a little bit of relevance there. But this

(05:42):
is also kind of where like suburbia starts, like the
idea that we would start to call that. We didn't
really have that at the time. Now just culturally, all right,
So you're also looking like temple rare parties. Frozen foods
are our thing now. Convenience supplies like toasters, refrigerators are
starting to be like a real a major thing you
could properly expect to own. These are getting in house,

(06:03):
you know, in houses, those weird devices that you exercise with,
all the real jankie stuff. You found plenty of those
right now. Just for context, about like the first McDonald's
is in San Berndino, California. At this time, it is
still a barbecue restaurant. Being Crosby is like dominating the
air may the airwaves, Glenn Miller. Like that Christmas album,

(06:27):
you know, the one. We've still got swing jazz. There's
still a big deal, Glenn Miller, all that crap. Jackie
Robinson just got into the Major League baseball Like Polaroid,
I don't even know they did this. They have an
instant camera like pictures are available on like an instant
kind of availability. That's weird, but again, this is how
weird that was. The long play vinyl, like literally the

(06:48):
vinyl record, the big one, the like the twelve inch
guy that You're You're You're just starting to see come
back like that was literally this is the first year
that came out in nineteen forty eight. Things are very different,
just the media's So this is the part that I
wanted to really this was neat all right. TV's in
particular zero point five percent in homes in nineteen forty six,

(07:08):
fifty five point seven percent and fifty four, ninety percent
and sixty two. So like from forty six we got
about ten more years, got a fifty four, We got
a roughly half the way there, and then we're mostly saturated,
like ninety percent in like roughly another two right now,
nobody has a fucking TV. So like poor Kirk Allen,

(07:30):
he's going to miss the deadline.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
For the Yeah, the movie sereals were TV. You just
everyone would go to the movie theater weekly and watch
these movie seials.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
So I had to look that up. How I don't
know how much you know about the daily part of that.
So this is what that looked like though, And I
want to show you. I wanted to send these to
you because these are fun. Okay, these are like the
actual or a couple of the posters you would have
seen whenever they get sure the but this is how
this would have gone. You would have seen roughly a
poster like this. You would have heard you're on the radio,

(08:02):
but you're you're going to the movies for entertainment at
this point, sure like radio rules the living room. You've
probably got one of those. You have access to that.
There's a piano in there by the way at this
point because somebody about there around there knows how to play,
because somebody better, because you fucking don't really have a
lot of other stuff going on reliably to hear stuff
you want to hear. But yeah, television extremely rare. Only

(08:24):
the highest use cases here. They're like, have one of
these things? Are you kidding? Black and white only, of course,
but Saturday matinees that's the big deal, right, m You
got on there, you can see like a big movie.
It's not even a big movie. It costs like a fifth,
like a dime or a nickel. Literally, you a farthing.
Maybe I don't know if that would be worth every there,

(08:45):
but you you pay nothing and you basically spend your
afternoon different lifestyle entirely. I mean two three hours, you
get dressed up, kind of they got dressed up around then, right,
but you you'd head down there. You're gonna watch whatever
the feature was, something about aliens from space or some shit.
I don't know, yeah, if that was even a thing
at the moment, but yeah, you're gonna watch all this.

(09:06):
There's gonna be a bent of commercials, trailers for other
movies that you're supposed to get back urreels. I imagine
a bunch of news reels. They're going to hit you
with that at the beginning. In the end, apparently you
can find decent descriptions of like what this actually like
to have seen, which is interesting. But the other thing,
of course is these series. But and I sent you
these pictures because they're they're they are Gordons.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I've always one of the both of these posters somewhere
in my in my house.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
I don't, I don't. I don't blame you a bit.
These are these are beautiful.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
In the show notes, but they're very like flesh. You're heavy, right,
I mean, well, that's an interesting point. I think the
Fleisher stuff came out in like forty one or something.
So we've already had Superman in theaters in animated form
at this point.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, So, and I think that's why these things look
this way is because they're gonna be very I mean
that's kind of what you were used. Yeah, I mean
you even kind of looked like that. That is not
who you're getting bout like that.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
We're down over seven fun Superman very it seems very excitable.
He seems like the type of guy who would be
who would uh, you know, give himself the occupation adventurer.
He he's very happy to be doing this. Yeah, he's
having a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
He yeah, very much is. But it's that era of
course where this is. This is pre all the muscles.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
But he was a dude. He was kind of a
built dude though for real he is.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
A real build ud. So to that end, like he
like a little bit of context for Superman. Yes, you'd
already seen like the Fleischer cartoons that was like nineteen
forty to fifty one. I'm sorry, the Bud Collier Show
in nineteen forty and fifty one. The Fleischer cartoons were huge.
They've been a few years before. But yeah, like you
had already gone to the theater to see Superman before

(10:50):
in exactly this context, and mat cartoons. You'd heard him
on the radio a lot. There's the whole thing about
that he had taken on the KKK. That was I
think that, I mean, that had already been gone. That
was real event, that had properly happened. We got some
decent news you like you were used to that, you
were used to Superman. And by the way, he was
the number one comic character in America at this time.

(11:12):
He had he took over pretty quickly and swiftly.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I believe that he had a lot of competition, but sure.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Him and Captain Marvel whoever earned.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Him Batman dude, like it was. That's pretty much it. Like,
I think there was some old Captain America shit, but there.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Was I mean, and you know, like Superman, he he was.
He was the first like super proper superhero in a
lot of rights. But he wasn't the first character that
was running around with like a power here in the area.
And he certainly wasn't the first du good a running
around in a comic page.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Who was that fucker in the yellow costume who was
called it the wizard or something. I don't know, serious,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
When you go look up like lists of the worst
comic blah blah blahs of all time, that ero just
is half of those lists. Usually everyone there is the
you know, the beekeeper or some shiit.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, Wizzard was. His first appearance was nineteen
forty one. Yeah, dude, wow, I mean he was like
a flash. He had fucking wings coming out of his
like the his widow's peak, and he was dressed in
almost all yellow, Like why are you gonna call him
the wizard dressing them all yellow?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Come on, man, I mean, we know, we know, we know,
And and people were diartier than you fucking think they were.
Don't you get that twisted.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Anyway?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Your grandparents fucked too. Uh But yeah, so in that,
in that context, we we entered Kirk Allen spelled a
l y n if any.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Want, uh the pro the proto acroid.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah yeah, all right. So he'd done a little bit
of dancing, a little bit of baudeville. I'm sure you'd
love you just love hearing that word. Some bit parks
some some some theaters, but no one knew who the
fuck this dude was. No one knew what So he
is in shape during World War Two. Cut like a
couple of years before he had been in the navy,
like this is he's still literally in army shape, I

(13:08):
think at this point. And then there's this there's a
quote from him, like the producer Sam Katzman. You can
see him on the flyer there. He's kind of the
like the Sam Katzman carries a little bit of the
early productions of Superman. He's the early seconds, I guess.
So he's got a quote from Alan here he says,
I thought it was a publicity stunt. I didn't think

(13:31):
you could ever put Superman on film. They brought the
people from DC Comics over and they said, hey, he
looks just like Clark Kent. They said take off your shirt,
so I didn't. I flex my muscles. Then the guy
said take off your pants, and I said, wait a minute.
I was thirty seven when I played Superman. I picked
up that girl and ran up that flight of stairs
like it was nothing. That's fun, which just just sounds
weird as far as I know. For that audition, yeah,

(13:53):
he was basically asleep. His manager or whatever was like,
this is gonna be weird big get down here and
you know you you feel good? But yeah, yeah, gets
down there. They ask him to shirtlessly carry some lady
up a flight of stairs and they like his physicality
and hey, you're Superman.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Now, so you got moxy kids.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
That's what Yeah, yeah, that's all it took. And I
don't know what happened to her. Maybe she's the other
person on this one.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
She got carried some stairs.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Never to be seen again. Left ropped the stairs. She
died four days later of starvation.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
On a on a producer's couch somewhere.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah right, Yeah, they were off just getting drunk, excited
they had gotten some casting done, took off work for
two weeks. Brother. Yeah, So at this point though, and
you've seen a little bit of these, you've seen the
like I know you've seen the Batman cereals as well.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Too, Yes, yeah, yeah, I've seen chunks of the first
Batman cereal. I've seen chunks of both Superman cereals. I
have seen the entirety of the second Batman cereal. Oh boy,
do they just write that ship week to week man?
Like there were so many cutoff storylines. I'm scared to
go back for like the entirety of the Superman stuff,

(15:02):
but I've seen big chunks of it for sure, Like
I'd have to get a real feel for it.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
This one was fun. I didn't I didn't know this
at all. So fifteen part series. The first three didn't
have a cliffhanger. Oh after that they started writing with
cliffhangers because they knew they had something. And then you know,
just a little factoid like the costume itself was black
and brown, that that popped better. You weren't going to
see any color anyway, and that that showed really really

(15:27):
good contrast. You you tuned into this thing though, and
the major cartoon effects, like they had Krypton. This was
a whole story that gave you the background. You know,
it was a Krypton. It was a basic Superman story.
Nothing crazy happened. Oh yeah, a lot of wirework early
on that didn't work out, so they went with cartoons instead.
Apparently that's why you can see him like landing way
back in the farm and then he just sort of

(15:48):
like rocks up after there.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Oh yeah, on Krypton when they like he takes off
from Krypton, like the fucking rocket ship is a cartoon. Yeah,
And krypton a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Scene looks pretty good.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
It looks pretty fucking good. Honestly, it really does.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I mean so to that end, I want to say,
there is nothing super incredibly visually striking about this. This
was not a Citizen Kane situation. They didn't rein they
didn't reinvent the role of DPS here.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
But oh no, man, it looks like nineteen forty's fucking
CGI to me, Like, I'm down with it. Like Superman
goes to take off very he literally turns into a cartoon.
They do it pretty fucking seamlessly.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
I think so. I think pound for a pound, it
looks better than some of nineteen seventy eight.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean I think, well.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Definitely some of the stuff and the rest of it,
But I think they did a great job with their top.
But it really didn't get a follower. Comic sales went
up like fifty percent, which was a cute thing. It's
beth only metric I could find that I cared about,
Like fandom wasn't really a thing yet, like you know

(16:57):
who Kirk Allen was, but like you didn't like fandom,
like we know, it wasn't a thing. Yeah, So comic
sales went up, but and it was well thought of,
but it only kind of got to this status. I
don't know where else it might have gone even really,
m I don't really know. I mean they could have.
I would say they kind of made movies. I think

(17:18):
they at some point these got redistributed into like television
things later and reaired a little bit. There's plenty of
redistribution that happened a lot later. At the time. I
think they did the fifteen part series, it was enough.
I don't know if no one was really clamoring for
too much more. But I don't know at that time,
you know, did you run a fifteen part and that's
the most you could have ever done? No one's ever

(17:40):
done any better. I don't know the context of that.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if they how
much they reran those in theaters too, like if you
know some of the decaying theaters on the poor side
of town, if they're you know, running old Superman serials
or well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, not a clue, but it did well. But it
leads to the first question that it was, like, all right,
so in that era, you know, where where would that
leave you? Like you've seen the pictures of this, Kay,
how are you feeling if you meet this guy?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Though? Well, fine, Like I don't know, Like I'm I
don't know. I've looked at a fair amount of old
Superman comics. I may have thought not really as supermanny
as I would have thought if I was a fan
of the comics at the time. But at the same time,
I don't know, Like what was I expecting?

Speaker 1 (18:28):
You know, that's exactly the word I wonder you this
is the first time you've seen an actual human do
anything with that.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Look what you know that there's got to be there
were kids, probably mostly who were hanging out and going
like that, don't look like Superman. This is like I
got a kid, I got a guy in my neighborhood
who looks more like Superman than this guy.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
You know that this is something this I do wonder
about all the time. I you know, old old stereotypes
like this, old standards like this. We kind of brush
him off as like, ah, back then, but you just
wonder how much back then was really back then?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Oh, I think it's more like now than we want
to admit.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
In some ways, it's got to be like you must
have been able to see this guy and be like, yeah,
he's in great shape like that. That is a body
I would for certain like to like to have, but
it is not. I'm sure he was a scamp in
the sack, yeah, but like he can clearly get to cardio.
He got up, I think hung over that morning. I'm

(19:28):
not sure if I remember.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
That tall building in a super bow. Yeah. Unfortunately, I
also be faster than a speeding bullet.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And yet that's another point. He wasn't even flying at
this point. He's just leaping. He's leaping, he's punching, he's
got some lath.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I thought he was flying. I thought he was flying
because when he goes to fly, because when he goes
to fly.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
He does land.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
He does.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah all right, so from nineteen thirty thirty seven, right,
that's our our first time. So in the ten eleven
years of publishing year or so here, he's gotten into
the fly.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah yeah, he started flying somewhere. You know, they started
having him fly for real in the Fleisher cushions.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Oh true, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's that's my favorite
shot of him flying through the air, punching that laser.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, until he gets I love that as
mad scientists. Yeah, I have seen all of those.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
That man, that that scene. I think I based a
fair amount of my childhood on that scene. Yeah. Yeah, man,
I'm going to watch that later tonight. But that's where
it leaveses no expectations. And then you see this dude
who like you do? All right, man, I mean all right,
it went over.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Well, yeah, but you.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Don't have to wait very long. So we get George
Reeves very quickly, and you know, it changes a little
bit like that. It's it's it's a mixture. This is
TV and big screen, so big screen. He hits in
like nineteen fifty one, like Superman in the moment, they
do some movies and then and then they actually get
into like one hundred four episodes and six seasons over
like nineteen fifty two to fifty eight. You're gonna find

(21:05):
Georgia everywhere, though in black and white of course at
the time. Now this is a weird part of the history.
Apparently they shot it in color but didn't bother airing
it until in color until later because I guess no
one was going to see it. Yeah, that happened a
lot and over in music they were doing that affair
amount where they would record stuff in stereo and then
not realized until later when people actually had the equipment, like, oh,

(21:26):
we could do these remix and remasters. That's why you
see remasters of stuff that was sixties and seventies. Sometimes
also just exploitation of bands that have done well.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
But so, by the way, real quick. Sorry. He started
flying in the nineteen forties right after the creation of
the Fleischer films, because it became difficult to show him
leaping from place to place. Because of the animation, the
rotoscoping they were using in the Fleisher animations, it was
easier to have him flying.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Oh that's cool.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
So it was because of the Fleischer cartoons in nineteen
forty one just made the characters start to fly.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
I don't know why I love that so much.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
He officially first flew in the comic books in Action
Comics number sixty five in October of nineteen forty three.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I'd like to think, and I've never seen that panel.
I'd like to think that he does that and the
people who know him just look up and he goes, yeah,
I can do that, could do it the whole time,
and just moves on. Although they were wordier back in
that day.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, before that, he was he could leap one eighth
of a mile, I mean eighth of a mile. Yeah,
Action Comics number one, nineteen thirty nine, he could leap
the eighth of a mile.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Although I think they mean up when they say that,
So that is drastically different. It's a little bit different
from like a hop, skip and jump exercise.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, anyway, I'll.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Run some nineteen fifty one backdrop by here real quick.
The Cold War anxiety has fully set in. Eisenhower took
over again. We're in nineteen fifty one. It's just fifty
two area. I just put a giant explanation mark by
the word McCarthyism, Commi's Red Scare, blacklists, all of that
were in full swing. We're also starting with the like,

(23:06):
like I said, suburbs, suburbs just started. So now the
nuclear family and all that crap has just started. So
basically all the images you have from like Back to
the Future or whatever. Yeah, you're thinking about this, Sandman,
it's that. It's it's for sure that now and then
this is going to be crucial to any of the

(23:28):
rest of the story in a certain way. Not that
there's much story here other than just like things changed.
But this is like the height of middle class purchasing
power in the US and in a lot of other countries.
But and to some extent because of some of the
prosperity that was happening there. Like it was there was
a lot of back and forth at the time, but
this was like one of the one of the heights

(23:48):
of just the middle class purchasing power in general. So
TVs were incoming like this. That's this is the period
over which they begin to be a piece of technology.
That like, it's just how mediums work, right. You can
have a cool way to distribute things, and that can
be worth all the gold in the world. But like
if a bunch of other people don't have it, who cares,

(24:08):
It's just not gonna matter. Culturally, we got more like
the Chevy bel Air. There's a term you might have
at least heard, most famous car of all time for
its time whatever. I think that's like a fucking Ford.
You want to come right.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
To watch the fresh Chevy of bell Air every afternoon?

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, about the car who gets displaced to a
different toe lot in the middle of the night.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's a really nice to lot.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
It's a very nice toe lot where he met new friends.
Never wanted to leave that to a lot again.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Cousin the Chevy Carlton, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Which is absolutely a car that could have sold. That's
just a good car name it is. It comes in teal,
you know, goddamn well, it comes in teal and like
that sea foamy teal from the seven.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, such a dumb joke. By the way, apologize.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
The whole thing I participated. All right, So like TV
dinners are here, we're really into the appliance phase, malt
shops all that.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Queen Elizabeth Uh popped in and around in nineteen fifty two.
Apparently I liked this polioid epidemic rages and then and
then the vaccine is introduced all over a certain period
of time, basically right in that area. All right, So
culture again, look around. You've got I love Lucy killing it,
gun Smoke, Lone Ranger doing their thing. Musically, we're still

(25:36):
we're still kind of doing big band stuff for a
lot you remember, like Unforgettable all that.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Oh man, you know, I'm a big Andy Griffiths show fan.
Every time they would like talk about going to a concert,
and it was always like some big band bullshit. It
was always like they always it was like Glenn Miller, dude,
they would talk to Ellington. It was they didn't ever
use real names. It was always like Freddy Fleet and
his fan with the beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely though, Like.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, and then this this is note and I use
Elvis as a tractor. Yeah, Elvis and proper rock and
roll are not even here yet, like the major epicenter
of like America's cultural influence on the world, which genuinely
comes down to some extent that dude in a few chords,
an argument can be made, Yeah, we're not even there yet.

(26:23):
Rock and roll is not really here yet. This is
this is nineteen fifty one, Like we're a few years,
Like Elvis pops in around nineteen fifty four, rock and
roll really gets started on like fifty five fifty six,
as you'd get come to know it, and even that
there's it's just that stuff. But yeah, we're not even
we're not even really getting to any of the fun stuff.
But we're there at the moment. So what is that

(26:45):
also about television? Television comes to its into its own proper.
When this show premiered, it was still something that was
kind of a minority about the series end, it was
more of a regular.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, was it was the pilot? I thought I was
pretty sure the pilot episode was in theaters.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Well I probably so, Like
there's Superman in the Moment. I don't know this part
at all. There's like Superman in the Moleman that was
in theaters, and then a lot of the other stuff
were combined into theater things that were proper theater distributions
as well. Yeah, and then a lot of his other
episodes got tied in and that's how a lot of
people oversee saw them is well, they didn't have the

(27:22):
same TV channels obviously, so would make it over as
feature films that you could see, And that's somehow the
word was gonna spread that way.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, Superman in the Molment was like theatrical and then
they cut it up to be on TV.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, and then apparently one hundred and four actual proper
episodes of just meant for TV gonna be TV. And
then it got the other way around where a lot
of the TV got tied back into movies and stuff
like that. And son Off, which is a weird memory
for me because I don't remember it being episodic or
serial in my hazy hazey memories. But so this is

(27:57):
a period that we're like, yeah, by the series end,
by the end of this show, television is gonna be
more prevalent. You saw this show probably growing up, like
by the end, by the beginning, you probably weren't out
on the whole thing. Over the course of like these
six years or whatever, you probably had gotten to see
this if you were around them somehow, I mean not
one hundred percent, but you basically it was a coin

(28:20):
toss instead of a chance in hell, which was much
better odds. So, movies, though they're starting to lose, just
like absolute power in this dynamic, like by nineteen fifty two,
they're still very much in control. Though your advertising is
still going to be like print ads, ude, Like you're
still just it's radio print, that's your whole campaign right now. Yeah,

(28:44):
like TV Guide, cereal boxes, all that kind of stuff. Sure,
and Superman himself. We're right. So comic books are still
selling very strong. They did pretty well off the back
of all that stuff. We're only a couple of years removed.
Did you remember like Superman.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Clubs, Yeah, oh yeah, fan clubs, Yeah, like they were.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
They were real things that were starting to be there.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Lie, we should bring it back.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, actually that would be fun. We have all these
things online. But there's something to be said for just
like going to school and being like, hey, there's a
club for thirty minutes after on a Tuesday. But as
this came out, though with all the marketing it was
a highly anticipated show. It wasn't people weren't trying to
miss this thing. It was you were excited about it.
And then, just like everybody else, we get George Reeves.

(29:26):
Nobody knows a fucking thing about George Reeves. Yeah, like
a little known actor. He had shown up in he
got to say at this point in his resume he
had he had an IMDb, but it was like I
think it was like Best Motion Picture. He had a
role in two movies that either had gotten or been
nominated for Best Role Motion Picture. And by role I

(29:47):
mean a side roll for like two minutes, like a
like a named character in the credits that probably his
name wasn't mentioned on this. It was not a major
role in any basket, but he was in there and
he had roles, but struggling as a paid actor. I
think he was in New York at some point. Anyway,
when he finally got the party, he took it very seriously.

(30:08):
And this is where I think things changed, Like Kirk
Allen had gotten it, but there wasn't a mechanism for
a lot of back and forth. I don't think at
that time. TV's starting to change a little bit, like
you can there's still movies just a matinee, but that
is still a little bit different. TV does start to
democratize a little bit more of what you're seeing, just slightly,
and it also changes a little bit of how George

(30:29):
Reeves I think, addressed like his duties I guess in
the role, like his expectations for what he had to do,
like he took it. You've heard the like you know,
with the stories about like hospital business and all that
kind of stuff. I think he was one of them.
He's one of the first people that I heard of
in the Superman chain that had started doing that thing.

(30:50):
But like you've seen those weird safety messages that where
he's in costume and out of costume. I think my
favorite he quit smoking. I was unaware of this fift
I just think that's incredibly special to quit smoking in
the fifties to set an example for kids, when, by
the way, the science was not even settled that you
were necessarily in the wrong in the fifties. I mean
it was, but they were lying about it. So so

(31:14):
the average person was not and should not have felt
entirely convinced that that was bad. He just was airing
on the side of its probably bad and quit. Yeah,
that's nice, incredibly superhuman thing to have done at that time.
Seemed to have carried the character pretty well. His death
did make for an odd end to the whole saga,
of course.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
I mean, of course people still think that he was
killed by the mob or some other.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Shit, or a series of lovers, or just an argument
that went particularly wrong, Like there's an one argument that
just it happens to have been accident on top of
something that was an argument that shouldn't have even happened
that long stories But as far as how had it
go all right? So it aired in eighty percent of
the US markets. That's pretty huge. That is kellogg sponsorship

(31:59):
the entire run of the show.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Of course, that it's got the wholesome brand. Man, you know,
you want to feed your kids that wholesome shit. So
I'm saying Superman wouldn't tell you to eat the wrong thing.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
That's exactly my point. Here's the crazy part though, Like
eighty percent of your's markets sounds neat and and even
now if I say like kellogg sponsorship the entire run,
it doesn't sound like much at the time. Do you
know how fucking big that was?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:24):
That they never thought that they should drop Superman, like
of all the people, and the Kellogg's is the what
was the biggest thing in the world, Like that was
one of the biggest ge is still one of the bigger.
I can't remember if Kellogg is part of G or not,
but like still cereals a big fucking seller. But yeah,
a huge metric for them to have kept Kellogg the
entire run. That in short, it did well. But again

(32:47):
leads me to my question though, so like it in general,
you meet this guy like how and you've seen some
of it, like how do you? How do you feel?

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I I mean, look, I used to watch Adventures of
Superman on Nick and Knight.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Always enjoyed it, Like he was not my first Superman.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
I you know, he might have been the first live
and away from it, I think he might have snuck
in be the first. I can't tell anymore.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, no, Christopher Reeve was my first Superman, just full stop.
But you know, also I had seen by the time
I finally got around to seeing Adventures of Superman on
Nicked Knight, I had seen Chris Reeve. I had seen
the two actors who played Superboy in that eighties series.
I've seen several cartoons, so I was pretty okay with

(33:37):
and you know, comfortable with the knowledge that there were
multiple Superman. I think there was even some sort of
like history of sci fi thing that aired on like
Fox or something when I was a little kid, and
I had seen you know, clips of George Reeves and
was familiar. I was excited when Nick at Knight started
playing those.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
And it was one of the first times that I
realized that things rotated out of Naked Knight's rotations.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, and was sad. Yeah, this was news to me.
You know. I remember seeing some some motherfucker and some
look like a spacesuit in a cave. I remember seeing
you know, some robot looking aluminum dudes like it was
my kind of shit. Like I grew up on Star Trek,
the original series, so you know, anytime I go back

(34:26):
to even pre that, I'm because I mean, but I
was watching Lost in Space before Adventures of Superman, so
it just felt like that era, like, oh, here's some
dudes that are like these are some you know, run
of the mill, blue collar, you know, made men type
of shit. These are some like h but then there's

(34:47):
a guy in a space suit as well, some robots
and shit.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's what it keeps rounding me of those that has
to be you were just you were just an ocean
away from from people who felt very similarly about Doctor Who.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
At the time. Oh god, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Think it was gonna be a smaller group that they
had to have had a similar experience.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and what was Doctor Who started the day Kennedy
was assassinated.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Was that the day Kennedy absolutely.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
The very day, like it was so.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
The day heard that story. You're right, yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
That Verdy Lambert like had to go in and beg
them to re air the pilot the next week, just
be like, nobody's gonna know what the fuck's going on.
Everybody was watching the Kennedy thing, please and they did.
They did. That was the right call. But yeah, dude, that.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Was a weird month in general. I think it was
a I think it was several like a month later
that the Beatles went on Ed Salmon.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, maybe, but weird.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Time, if I have that right though. I mean, but
this would have been another interesting part of this is it,
like you you would have met this guy, but it
wouldn't be your first necessarily you might have you might
have seen the other guy at the theater. Hard to say.
And I don't know if you're gonna start comparing Superman
at this point in your life. I don't think that
was the thing.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
People bothered with Beatles first aired on The Ed Sullivan
Show February nine's nineteen sixty four. Four. Yeah, so I
believe Kennedy was assassinated in what sixty two? Is that right?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I think I don't remember anymore.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Oh, November sixty three. It was twenty two. That's why
I had to November twenty two, nineteen sixty three. So yeah,
I mean this there was kind of close.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I forget what it was. There was something in actually
in nineteen sixty three that was a big Beatles event
that they dropped an album. I think at that time
that was I just can't remember it. Was it gotta
be like a Beatles movie or something. Maya is their debut?

Speaker 2 (36:40):
LP, please please me?

Speaker 1 (36:42):
There came out? Mark might be it, that might be
it really really off on those dates right now, all right,
so that we can we can skip a reeve or
reeves to a reeve, but it skips a lot, It
skips a lot of time, so things are gonna changed
a lot. But yeah, like you've you've met too, but

(37:04):
then there's like a whole generation worth of literally a
generation's worth of time. Yeah, because the next time you're
gonna see this guy's really in nineteen seventy eight.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Right, and you know it should be noted. I mean
they're like they're animated series. Yeah, the New Adventures of
Superman came out and what was it sixty eight something
like that New Adventures.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
I didn't I didn't write down super Friends. I think
was like seventy three. Batman sixty six would have been,
So that's part of the story, will be like Batman
sixty six was huge.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, nineteen sixty six
is when the New Adventures of Superman started. That was
a cartoon that was an animated series. So we had
that at the same time that the live action Batman
was going.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
And that was that was an era, let's just call
it that. Yeah, but yeah, relevant to that. So in
nineteen seventy eight, we've got We're at fifty by the
way to well.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Call your back a Superman in New Adventures of Superman
from the radio show Oh Cool. Yeah, is the Kevin
Conroy of Superman for a while?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, he was, I guess the only person Kevin had
to beat, which happened very quickly and thoroughly.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Sorry, I mean, you know, I just you know, but
as much as we talk about Kevin being our Batman,
like you know that there were some kids out there
going like whoever, Yeah, Like there's two generations of people
who are like always like the radio guy.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
That would be fun though, So this would be a
time frame, so like that would be like the late forties.
You could have been old enough in the early nineties
to have heard Kevin Conray been like ne heard better
and genuinely minute and like, yeah, you would have been
able to make a case for it.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah. Yeah, the weather. They couldn't have gotten Adam westback.
He should do the voice of the character of the cartoons.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, did any of these iconics at
that point? All right, So nineteen seventy eight, let me
fill you in a little bit. Things a very much
changed in the US. Uh, we're in the post throws
of like the post sixties. Things were glamorous, they're not Vietnam.
Nixon fucked us, like it's gotten weird. Carter's in office now,
that's not going great. So there's a whole Middle East

(39:12):
piece of chords situation.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
We had an oil crisis.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, but like there was a piece of chords
and then that was a nice moment apparently, and then
like everything around that basically just like stagflation was a
word that we had to invent for how bad things
got lines at gas pumps here, which I think was
all was everywhere else. I'm not sure about that part,
but definitely here. Yeah, there these were bleak times. We're

(39:38):
definitely whereas I just said, we were at like the
height of consumer spending before, we were at pretty much
the depths of it now. Or we're inventing new loves
as we go right now. Uh, but yeah, complete turnaround
for our economy. And I did not look up nor
I might qualified to guess at the rest of the
world's but it was we're intertwined right now that we
were affecting other people, but culturally different, mostly different. We're

(40:02):
also post Star Wars, which is another like major marker here,
like we had what this is importantly we are post
we are post Elbus, We're post the Beatles. We'll post
all of the major fandoms coming into being. We're post
Star Wars. So not only are a fandom is a thing.
Swag is a thing. Now you can get a little

(40:23):
plastic piece of whatever you want for whatever character it
is you were looking for. Yep, if you look hard
enough in whatever stores.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
By the way, post Star.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Trek post Star Trek as well.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Star Trek started in sixty six, went to sixty nine,
and then also had an animated series in seventy three,
and because of Star Wars was also being made for
the theater nineteen seventy nine's Star Trek the Motion picture.
So true true, Yeah, Like optimism is on the way back,
that's what that's what we need.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Well, yeah, in culture, not so much in your pocketbook, no, yeah, no,
which you know. One of the theories is that Superman
reflects a little bit of what the times need. I
don't really know that could be the kind of thing
that I might have. I don't know, made a thesis
of out of all the information I've gathered here, but
I don't know that it'd be correct, and didn't bother
so I just figured we'd find that if it happens

(41:14):
to be the case, you know, Yeah, as it stands, though, culturally,
look around, we've got like this is specifically just nineteen
seventy eight, grabbing a few off the top of the pile.
You got like Market Morgan mindy Space Invaders is a
huge steal done at the arcade. Sure, yeah, teens have
money now, by the way, like teens got invented not
too long ago that we were inventing the idea of

(41:35):
teens one Superman ago. Now we have fully monetized the
word teens and two teens. But yeah, Greece, Saturday Night Fever,
staying alive of all that sort of thing, Like John
Travolta runs culture at the moment, I think worldwide. Yeah,
and then like darker notes this is I think this
was the year of the Jonestown massacre. Like we're in that,

(41:59):
we're in that area as well. Where we are we
are post the the really fun idea of cults and
into the really scary idea for sure. But yeah, there
was a whole there was a whole culty area of
like post sixties. I mean we got started with a
lot of the cults well before.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Would you say, what what was the line? Where did
the line go from the fun cults to the fucked
up cults? Was it Manson? It was Madson? Absolutely the
first thing I thought of.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Motherfucker jumped the shark for all the cults all at once,
he like, and he painted helter skelter on the walls.
If it hadn't been the Beatles, if it literally wasn't
someone that big, he might have ruined the sixties by
himself right then.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, it was just like a fucking hippie dippy moonchild, like,
oh my god, look at the commis, you know, like,
oh my god, oh my god, oh what the fuck? Fuck? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Understanding is that it took a few more hits to
really end the sixties, but he he gave it an
honest go. Like when the sixties went down, it was
it remembered that Charles had hit it. It was not
happy about it either, media wise, though, like what are
you doing? To actually consume media. At this point, you
got the movie industry is everything you can imagine, man, billboards,

(43:19):
TV trailers, fucking everything, everything you've ever seen invented to
advertise to someone is doing its job, and it's doing
its jobs as best it can in this era, right,
uh huh. The biggest of the boldest, all that, the deepest,
the bluest as well, I'm sure. But you know, you
can watch movies at home at this point, like TV's ubiquitous,
so we're gonna have like TV premieres of things. I mean,

(43:42):
you were talking about this the other day that I
think they still have like television premieres of things. But
no one gives a fuck. No, that's that's been that's
been long gone for what at least ten years now.
I think it was that, you know, our teenage years
probably is when that roughly went away. Alts, I'm guessing, Oh,

(44:03):
I don't know, I have no ite teens. I think
his cord cutting was gonna take over.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
I mean I stopped watching TV like in two thousand.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
And four, yeah, I mean stop being able to afford it.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Well. Yeah, To give a little perspective, though, fanzines were
a thing like we we actually had like sci fi
nerd magazines. Like my wife found a copy of Fantastic Films.
I showed this to you the other day. She found
it in a thrift store for four dollars a couple
of months ago. And the cover is a painting of

(44:37):
like Chris Reeve, and they are boasting that they have
an interview about the new Superman movies plural and like
if when you look around inside they've got like a
little retrospective on the previous versions of Superman for the screen,
but also like an interview with Donner talking about how

(44:57):
like the Secret is the first film is really three
films and I don't.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Know how'd that go? How'd that work out?

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Well, it's a classic that defined an entire movie genre,
despite the fact that you have qualms with that.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
That's me in the three movie part oh, the three movie.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
What they were talking about is the fact that the
three different errors like the Krypton, the Smallville, and the Superman.
But then there's the second movie coming like so that's
what he was talking about. And I think it worked
fine for the time, And like I said, it defined
an entire genre and gave us a formula for superhero

(45:37):
movies that we are largely still following today. But a
lot of that is also because Kevin Fagy was Dick
Donter's protege in college, like I worked for him with
Jeff Johns.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Like so yeah, a tight influential group form there.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yes, yes, I mean seminole.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Doesn't even really begin to describe the thing. Yeah, it's
deeply important, deeply important film, Like not when I can
go back and watch, I just don't connect with it
that the timing doesn't work for me at all. It
it would have been. It would genuinely have been hard
for me to be a media consumer with my brain
in the seventies, Like the pacing would have been hard.

(46:16):
It just doesn't fit me as well.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
But I mean, yeah, it just it did just as
well as you're thinking.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Obviously, I think it fits me better in some ways,
Like I love going out and like finding the magazines
and finding the whatever the bullshit, like hunting it down
like that's part of what I enjoy about that. But
being who I am.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Oh yeah, and well I well I get to that
in a second. But yeah, part of that was forming
at the moment, Like just as far as the where
you consume, I mean your TV premiere, special event movies
still what you want, Like theaters are still like your
best option just to reliably see the thing you want
to see when you want to see it. Like if
it's airing there and you want to see it, go

(46:59):
pay and see it, and then watch it as many
times as you want and memorize it, because when you
see it again, it'll be because it premieres on the TV.
You don't know when that's happening. There's no good barometer
for that thing that there aren't industry standards in certain way.
I mean loose industry standards, but I don't know if
that'll be six months or two years, and then god knows,

(47:19):
you run into some copyright shit and it'll be ten.
You don't like. It's not like you would think of today,
where it in your head today. Anytime you don't catch
it on screen anywhere, you're thinking, ah man, I'm just
when it gets to streaming, But you immediately assume the
sentence when it gets to streaming without flinching, right right,

(47:40):
You would not have even assumed the words when it
gets to TV at this stage of your life. It
will probably but like not in any way that you
might even be aware of. Do you have a copy
of TV Guide? Do you pay attention to it that regularly?
Are you into it? I mean, do you have other
hobbies because that might it might air on a night
that you just are doing some shit. Yeah, regularly. There's
a lot, a lot of stuff to consider, but you

(48:01):
can't get to the thing that you want to necessarily, Like, no,
Blockbuster is the big takeaway. I guess I'm there, sure.
But and then you got Superman, like in the context
of just like Superman in this area, all right, so yeah,
you're leaving Batman. Sixty six was huge, a very optimistic
era of superheroes. I think, yeah, are playful, cartoony.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, I mean they got a you know, sixty six
was Batman was making fun of comics and yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Walking up the walls and meeting you know, Sammy Davis
Junior and other celebrities like it very much. A time
where like we're we're joking about the comics themselves, but
no one's taken them seriously yet. Yeah, not in any
kind of real way. Now to that in comics all
like all all comic cells flagged around this time. Comedy

(48:49):
was the economy wasn't really super supportive of a lot
of discretionary kind at the time. But among other things,
it was like there's the post comics code insanity a
little bit like you know how like the eighties nineties
we started doing like in my head, there's like this
postmodern kind of era where we started deconstructing all these
characters and things got real interesting. There's a darkness that

(49:10):
got inserted, you know, like the dark Knight is always the.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Well, you know, post in a seduction of the innocent
and comics code they got so watered down and so
kid friendly that people stopped taking them seriously.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
The comic jumps with sharks, like Superman's a Mermaid.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, I mean they just had to. They were running
out of ideas because they couldn't tell like real stories
in a lot of ways, and it was very much
a comics for kids, and those aren't cool anymore, do Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
It resulted in all the correct flagging, and you know,
all of our wars were cold. We weren't. I don't
think we really like endo punching people in the same
way at the time that we were when we were
sending copies of Superman and you know, Gotain American punching
Nazi jaws back in the day. I don't think that
was hitting the same at that second.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, I mean, you know, in the seventies is definitely
where I think the mid seventies is definitely where they
started getting darker with it. We started getting more like
Danny O'Neil Detective Batman and.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Oh the uh yeah him and the what's that journey?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Oh hard traveling heroes.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Thank you? Yeah, where they actually do some real shit.
Yeah yeah, yeah, all that all that gets there. But
I don't think we're there yet at all in the
big cultural perception of superheroes m in the slightest and yeah,
like nerd culture, I would call it the nascent era,
Like you don't even have Porky's or anything like that.

(50:33):
I don't think yet, Like I want to say that
was the eighties, you don't, like just Revenge of the Nerds.
I think all that kind of stuff was eighty Like
the idea of a nerd like couldn't have really been
a thing yet. Fandom wasn't a thing until then. And
then honestly, fandom was designed four teenagers. It was mostly
teenage boys and girls designed to go after other teenage
boys and girls on album covers and shit. It was

(50:56):
not an area where like adults were expected to actually
do anything with all their nerdiness. Like you might be
the guy that knows the most baseball stats, but you're
not called anything. I don't, I mean, I don't. This
is the point in the conversation where I'd love to
have an older person here to be like, motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Yes we were, oh yeah, but I don't.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Think it nerd proper was I mean, I know that
wasn't a term, but we didn't really have a culture
for that. I don't think.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
I don't know, I don't know that's true. Like the
word nerd started appearing in print in the nineteen fifties
apparently nice. So yeah, I thought that there was a
pretty I thought it was pretty old.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
I think the word maybe, but like not the actual
culture for it. I don't. I don't think it really
starts to come around and get it get to be
something that's talked about as a culture, like really genuinely,
like Revenge of the Nerds and stuff like that, hitting in.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
What it's got to be the eighties, I think eighty four.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah, it feels like that area where like sixties and
seventies were not even really focusing on that as a
thing yet.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
M h.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
And then like I said, you said, earlier fanzines they
were starting to get like the early versions of cons
were starting to come out.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, when.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
When comic book stores even starting to show up.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Like before Star Trek was even off, they were already
they were already fanzines like mailing out slash fiction.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Like straight photo copied. Yeah, I might literally be a
photo thrown into a copy machine like it was. It
was a rough era for print, but you did what
you could to get around then. But in into that
area we got all right. So again, same problem, not
necessarily a problem. I guess this happens a lot. No
one knew who Chrisphrey was, right, he'd basically done like

(52:37):
a lot of stage stuff. I think he'd been on Broadway,
done some soap operas, but like, no one knew anything
about anyone who was on that fucking cast as far
as note, except for fucking Marlon Brando, who was the
only thing in the world that mattered as far as
I can tell, like contextually, like having his name was
basically just having the biggest name you could have had

(53:01):
and throwing it at the movie. You guaranteed so much
just by having his name there, right, you didn't have
to recognize anybody else. It could have been a cast
of squirrels and otters. They would have done fine.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And now I'm writing that down, a cast of squirrels and.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Otters just behind Brando doing their best, and it would
have done. It would have gotten a ton of.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Self fuck you and your Superman retrospective episode. This episode
will be called a cast of squirrels and otters. I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Oh yeah, that's the part I'll remember the most fondly.
So you got Marlon Brando though, and you remember the tagline,
of course you'll believe a man can fly. Yeah, that
was a tough cell. It really was visually going to
be something that was going to be different.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yeah, you'll believe it. Ma can fly. Margo certainly was.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yes, colored people maybe, Yeah, I mean that is a
good point. In nineteen seventy eight, a lot of people
had thought men had flown and would swear about it
many times in their life.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I mean, by this point, aliens are a subculture that's
i mean not subculed like they're a entity that's hit
the hit the streets proper. Oh yeah, because I think
it was. I want to say it was like the
early fifties, was that first little green a little gray
alien kind of story. Maybe it's forties it maybe the
forties it was. It's like the first time you'd actually

(54:40):
seen the image, not seeing the image, seeing the description
of the grays as they were proper.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Nineteen forty seven was when Buddy and whatever the Roswell
crash happened.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Not Roswell. There was a couple that was abducted that
I'm thinking about finally later. But yeah, like the story
after it was like the first alien you saw there,
it's been aliens ever since. They all look like that
ever since. It was the Canary and the Cole Alien.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
That was Betty and Barney Hill, that Barnie. That was
September nineteen sixty one, sixty one, that was later. That's
fucking late, Yeah, a motherfucker yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
All right, Well they've been around for a while though,
so other than Marlon Brando and the tagline you believe
a Man can Fly, you have no fucking idea. What's
going on with this Superman himself is bigger than any
any other character in this movie, possibly including Brando HM,
because like Superman, Logo at this point is a worldwide brand.
Anyone knows what we're talking about there.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Wow, I can't believe the Flintstones came out before they
those people.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
When they came out.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Well, so Flintstones came out in September thirty, nineteen sixty,
but Betty and Barney Hill popped up in ninety sixty one,
you know, Betty and Barney.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Of course, Yeah, you went straight.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I don't know why I didn't put together that It
was Barney that got YOUTI Flintstones a second ago. I
thought you were losking at a list of some kind
of you. I should have seen that coming.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
That's on me, I mean for both Benny and Barney
of course.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
All right, so you know how well the thing did though,
right Reeve Reeve is that brand for the rest of
his life. It just blew the roof off any kind
of sales. Everyone in that movie was an overnight star.
Like number two. The world wanted the second one. They
wanted to walk out of that theater and walk into

(56:32):
the next fucking movie, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Adjusted for inflation. Superman in the movie makes like one
point eight.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Billion, as we keep hearing.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
As we keep hearing, actually we don't hear about that much,
we all because the people who keep bringing up that
shit are always being like they're focused on Man of
still making more than this new Superman movie, but they
don't like to bring up the fact that the the
proto cheesy Superman made more than either of them.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah, yeah, now this is a good point and a
good time to bring up that. I'll mention a couple
of Bucks office figures as we go here and out.
They are the numbers that I pulled from the internet.
I did not even bother to grab them all because
they were roughly enough of the figure and it's just
not that deep right now. I just needed roughly what
the figure is. I'm not going in. If it's give

(57:16):
or take a hundred million, I'll take it. I'll give it,
give her take one hundred and fifty a part of
but for my purposes it'll do. Yeah, all right. So
like Reeve kills it, he absolutely kills it. He brings
less sincerity to it that that just no one saw coming, right.
You did not expect anyone to actually take that thing seriously.

(57:37):
And he looks cool doing it. Yeah, like he looks
like a badass people wanted to be in. But that
gets me to my cries because he also he does
a couple of things. And this is where this I
was curious about how you'd feel like he really is
one of the people. Uh, the Sacons, to their credit,
God help him, Reeve Brando two. They all help solidify

(58:01):
nerd culture, along with some other Star Trek star wars
of course, but like the big tent poles of nerd
culture are coming together right now. And this is where
Superheroes entered the conversation and never left this fucking movie.
So like he drags the rest of the world into
the idea that now, like this logo is here, it's
going to stay, and like that's where we're standing right now.

(58:22):
It's still in the shadow of all that. But yeah,
like it never in everyone away. But to that end,
like how you feel in when you see this guy Reeve, Yeah,
we're bordering on the area where you kind of are
in the experience of that. You can put yourself back
a few years.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
But yeah, I mean, you know, I was born in
eighty three and I remember in the late eighties it
being a multi night mini series event on TV because
they showed like the whole three hour put all the
deleted scenes back in kind of thing. The way I

(59:00):
felt was, this is a movie. This is the first
time we're seeing Superman in real life. That was like
it was presented to me as this is cinema. This
is like, this isn't a TV show, This is a
fucking movie child. This is you know, this is peak
right here. This is what you do. Like this looks

(59:23):
and it did like it's not you know, it's not
something that I noticed when I was a kid as much,
but like and we when we just went back and
watched these things. Superman the Movie does look more cinematic
than Superman two. Superman two looks like it was made
for fucking TV.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, oh for sure. Like Superman, they just to borrow it.
They one, they said it with their whole chest. Two
isn't a whimper like four. But we're getting there.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Yeah. Uh. There was something about Superman the Movie that
that they did. They I ain'ted the world fairly gritty.
It felt like Metropolis was New York. You know, you
had like pimps on the street and shit, like you
people were not people were shocked when they see Superman

(01:00:13):
doing his thing. But the way I interpreted it was
just I think the way everybody else did, or most
people did. My mom said he was a pansy. I
didn't quite catch that. I My thing initially was, this
is a deeply sincere person in a shitty time, like

(01:00:35):
and it didn't feel like a shitty time. It felt
like the world, this is just how things are, this
is how people are. And but here's this very very earnest,
fucking genuine man. And yeah he looks ridiculous, but you
know he cares.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
He does well. I so we we'd done our reviews
of those recently, and I honestly it might be the
first time I've seen some of that with an adult
and an adult brain at all, for sure. And maybe
my favorite thing he does in the entire first film
is sit down in the fucking interview with Lowis. Yeah,

(01:01:13):
it might be my favorite piece of acting. The whole
goddamn thing is just the way he sits down and
fucking means it. He at no point, there's no apology
whatsoever for him being in that costume the entire film.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
No explanation either, does it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah, they require one he's He absolutely makes you deal
with the fact that he's doing that, and if you're
not on board, he doesn't even engage in the conversation
about not being in board. You're just doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
It was was kind of odd, and I don't think
we mentioned it in the in our review, but it
is odd because when you see the people of Krypton,
ain'trypt Ain't none of them wearing that shit. They're all
wearing fucking robes and stuff. They look damn near biblical. Yeah,
it looks like a bunch of fucking foil jedies up
in there. Yeah. So like the Crystal batons, Papa Ell,

(01:02:04):
you know, teaches the kid, you know, all this bullshit. Yeah,
and then like he comes out, Why is he in that?
We don't know? We don't know. Is it like a
wonder Woman thing? Is this like the garnment of of
the people of the Crypton Champion? I don't know, but
this is what's happening now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yeah, they don't either.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
But except that maybe Clark was a fan of you know,
you can always say that maybe Clark was a fan
of you know, Wrastlers or something, right, the Strawn women
from the circus, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
They really didn't stop and describe at any point how
that worked out in his universe and over over a
few Now, I don't think they really did. And to
be sure, so let's say, all right, seventy eight, eighty
eighty three, and eighty seven. So Reeve carries the franchise
straight through the eighties for us, as far as the
logo goes, Yeah, yeah, so much longer. He's gonna show

(01:03:01):
up at a ton of things, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Yeah, not really like two things?

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Yeah, true, Yeah, I think that's a ton.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
That's not a ton. He was He was in an
AT and T commercial, right, but he was animated. He
was just him and Margo talking. And it didn't even
sound like them. That's the fucking weirdest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
I have heard that. And it does sound like them,
but I don't know, everything sounds a little off in
that time. Yeah, but I mean I'm thinking of like Maovel.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Oh yeah, I mean he yeah, he shows up as
a Virgil Swan, Yeah, the scientist who finds the location
of where Krypton used to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
And I remember that. I thought he did a couple
of legacy cast kind of pop ins, but.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
He just did that one, and then that and then
they just like took his image for the flash and
everybody was upset.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Never I got yeah, everybody got weird about it. We'll
go in too. Why everyone got worried about that later,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
And his kids were like, no, they didn't ask permission,
they don't need to. What the fuck they own the likeness?

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, it's it's yeah, pretty straightforward thing to have done
in the context of that story. But all right, so
this will run into by the way, So seventy eight,
eighty eighty three, eighty seven Superman four is the one
that I have on, is the one that I have
them on my wall. That's like my origin story of
actually having seen him in theater. Mine is complicated. I

(01:04:21):
know there's Flasher like I remember seeing that at at
a kid's house. I remember at my house seeing George
Reeve Reeves. I don't remember which one of those were
in first. I had this ticket on my wall from
going to see Quest for Peace like in a Superman outfit,
little nihilon one that God I wish I had, But

(01:04:41):
I don't remember which one of these I actually I
don't know which one was the base. They're all just
there somewhere yeah, and none of them I think were
the ones like certain those of those scenes really stuck
with me. But I don't I don't really know which
one hit me exactly. The I don't know a weird
way they did hit I don't think some of it
hit until free and like the nineties and animation area.

(01:05:04):
But then again, when we grew up, Superman was going
through some shit. If you were reading the pages.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
What do you mean, like the death Superman. Yeah, well,
by the time Superman, what was that ninety three, I
would have been about it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Yeah, I kind of like I'd known a little bit
about it. Yeah, Like that was only nine or ten,
so I'd like only known a little bit about it.
And then and then when I was like checking in
reading a little bit, I'd seen a little bit here
and there, I dive in and really read something. They're like,
oh he's dead, and like it was weird. It was
a it was a confusing time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, well, okay, well you know, like I said, like,
for me, my first real Superman experience was the Chris
Christopher Reeve was my Superman. He was my first Superman
and Superman the movie, the extended version on TV. That
was the thing that I watched so much, so that
like when I got when when I got a little
older and we started going to the video store, they

(01:05:57):
had all the fucking Superman movies on VHS and with
gorgeous the gorgeous painted covers and everything. M and I
would rent them, but they were the theatrical versions. So
like when I rented Superman the movie, I was sitting
there going like, wait, where the fuck is the scene
where he walks with the flames? Like where you know,
I'm remembering stuff that I saw on TV and going

(01:06:19):
like that ain't here. Uh, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
I'm missing like a Fantastic four trailer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Yeah, But I was not totally aware of how bad
the last the last two or three were. Like I
was just like, oh, yes, more Superman, like oh hell yeah,
Nuclear Man like fuck you. Like I was just excited
about more Superman. That's all that was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
So there was genuinely a period where, of course somewhere
in its syndication area, but like there was a small
period I remember being genuinely worried about whether Adam West
Batman was going to make it out of the traps
uh huh before the next episode came on. I don't
remember if that was the next day, just when I
was watching that, if I had to wait a day,

(01:07:02):
or if that was happening like the next hour. I
don't remember when I was watching that, but I do
remember worrying about his peril.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
So here's a weird thing. And I don't know that
we've talked about it before, but when they did the
Death of Superman, it was before Chris Reeve got paralyzed,
and I remember remember scuttle but that it might it
might be him. He might come back and do the
Death of Superman.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Oh, that he would as alive. Yeah, that would have
been fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Yeah, there was like people were like kids were talking
in the yards like, oh man, they're gonna kill Superman.
You think they're gonna make another Superman movie and Christopher
Reeve gonna do this, and and that was just kind
of like okay, Chris, Yes, Death of Superman came out
nineteen ninety two, so yeah, that was definitely a thing
that was going on. And then even after he got paralyzed,
there was like people were like, oh, well, after like

(01:07:58):
Jurassic Park and shit came out, you know, people are like, oh,
you could do something. He goes like he paralyzed A
ninety five. So, like, I think, what was fucking Jurassic
Park four? Yeah, I don't even know, But like CG
was just like the right area. Everyone was excited about CG.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Oh god, it was the It was the only thing
that mattered for a while, and it proved to be true. Yeah,
it's a major it's a major thing. We need for
a fucking to make anything at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
And I don't you know, nobody in the real world,
nobody was thinking like we're going to CG Chris Reeves
and now, No, they were dick deep and fucking up
on a Nick Cage movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
But they were that was gonna be a different thing.
I would have loved that movie for one of two reasons.
One of two reasons, I feel like not both. One
maybe someone puts some money into it and it was
actually good, and like he could kind of get a
little bit of the magic of one and two back.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
M h.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
That was was clearly not in on command in three
and four the same way, like just I know there's
an argument for three that's not there for and all that,
but like clearly some some stuff lost here. Maybe really
put your effort into it, really really really, you know,
go out swinging on death of Superman. It would have
been fun to see him do it. That could have
been just fun by itself.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
But the other option is it went very poorly, and
poorly enough that I didn't have to see a bunch
of deaths of Superman every time I turned on a
god damn Superman franchised from here on out. Like we
were just complaining about this on the news episode, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Yeah, Well, I mean, yeah, we've we've been doing this forever.
And I've been watching Doomsday on TV since fucking Smallville.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
That's been a minute. And all all versions that have
had their marriage, even like the Crypton version when God
I love that one, all have their merits, but that
you can still just be saturated with the story. For
God's sake, I've seen a lot of Doomsdays in my time.
I think that's part of the point of this kind
of episode to me, is to look at like, yeah,
how fucking saturated are you? Just if you've seen something

(01:09:54):
for a while, Like there's a generation's worth of time
between seventy eight and these other ones, Like you're not
so traded on ship when you go into see Christopher
do his thing. You're basically just coming in fresh with
a bunch of kids who until then come with you.
It's a whole new crop.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
But to that end, let's do a couple of feedback things.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Okay, sure, all right, So we do these.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Little surveys and I kind of split them up, so
I kind of put them near whatever, you know, time
we were at based on the first question. All right,
I'll read through the questions on like the first one.
Then I'm going to refer to them basically in shorthand.
And importantly, I've never I haven't read any of these.
I read the first question to see which timeline, and
then after that, hey, we're going in fresh, buddy. Okay,

(01:10:38):
So first question, can you remember the first live action
Superman you met that made an impression on you? How
old were you? How big of an impression? All right?
And then this guy's response, I don't think there's a
name anywhere, but yeah, we don't. That'll work right in
to claim your name. This person, I was seven years

(01:11:00):
I saw the Christopher Reeve nineteen seventy eight Superman on TV.
I loved it. Sounds right. Next question, when you met
that Superman, what was the world up to What do
you remember about that period historically or culturally that was
relevant to you personally? Kind of kind of thing that
I don't know. I was seven years old, so I
can remember about that time. Was that the Challenger explosion

(01:11:20):
recently happened around that time?

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Yeah, so that would have been eighty five?

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean this person said Superman on
TV and loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah, so that would have mid eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Re air would have been about.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Oh, eighty six January twenty eighth, nineteen, nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
So this would have been in you know, like one
of the eighties syndicated runs or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Very possibly could have been the same broadcast that I watched.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Oh yeah, that would have been right right at that area. Yeah,
you would have been just even more confused if you'd
known what the Challenger situation was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Oh yeah, three yeah, yeah, yeah, that would have been
the same broadcast for me then.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Probably maybe not the same affiliate obviously, but.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
I should have been around that time. Yeah, yeah, same
run of TV guide marketing campaign that should have hit
her on that area.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I do remember when when Challenger exploded.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
I do not think I do. I don't think I
have any memory of that whatsoever?

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
I remember watching it on the news.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Nothing. I don't think I have any news memory of
that one. Yeah, I've got some news memories in my life,
but those aren't those aren't in there? All right? Next one,
we got how many Superman plural have you met at
this point in your life? And who's your gold standard?
What's important to you about that version? Is your favorite
the one you first met or have you swapped it
up since then? It's an odd question. I have no
idea how the responses will come in there as far

(01:12:36):
as the phrasing. All right, probably eight if we're counting
TV and animated versions of him. Feels right, that's probably
all of them at that point. I guess it would
have to be Christopher Reeve. I guess the version is
I like, is the version of Superman that is compassionate.
So you're probably feeling great about the new one. If
you could pass one note to DC Studios right now,
just as Gun and krns what Superman is hitting the

(01:12:58):
big screen, what would it be? It could be about tone,
a character choice, an actor, a new series, whatever you want.
Swing big. It's a magical note and they have to
do whatever you want. Just whatever you write on it. Oh,
that's funny. I just saw it recently, and I can't
say they need any notes. They both nailed at Superman
was a great movie. Okay, so he did like the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Oh yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
That's fair. I mean I wouldn't as well as that
movie is doing. I wouldn't have the fucking moxie to
show it. Notes right now?

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Anyway, I got a couple of notes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Oh, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
I got a couple of notes, and I got all
the moxie in the world. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
In time, my moxie for other time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
I was kidding. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Just give my moxia a rain check. Go listen to
an audio shrug album for a little while. All right,
so this one. Can't you remember the first live action
Superrane again? All right? Nineteen seventy eight. I was fourteen
and Superman the movie blew me away. I left that
theater feeling so uplifted and joyful. I hopped onto a
hop up onto a concrete parking block, and then jumped off,

(01:14:02):
fully expecting to fly. I did that and injured myself.
Of course, I had seen George Reeves as soups and
the old TV show and Love the cartoon The New
Adventures of Superman. But Christophrie was my first real Superman,
and despite some great performance and the objectivity and the
objectively better films by others, since he will always be
my Superman. That is going to be a popular sentiment.

(01:14:24):
It is not entirely clear why I jumped off a
tiny little car port with what could only have been
three maybe four cinder blocks high, not that much like
one pad of concrete, onto a radio Flyer red wagon
and busted a stick to my lip. But it could
very well have been trying to Superman.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
It's one of the theories. At the time, I was
outside by myself.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
You were alone, you were all by yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Came in with a pierce lip.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
No one was lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
I was the eighties, So when you met Sumberman, what
was the world up to? Vietnam was still in the news,
Jimmy Carter was in the White House, and I was
more concerned with news about the upcoming Star Trek movie
than current events. That's fair, sir. How many Superman movie
have you met at this point? And who's your gold standard?
All right? This one's a little bit longer ten so far.
George Reeves never really worked for me as Superman, but

(01:15:18):
he was a great Clark Kent. Christopher Reeve, as I
said above, was the whole package. The scene in Superman
in the movie when he decides he's going to tell
Lois anymore from Clark to kelll by changing his whole
body language and then back again when he chickens out,
was sheer genius. I cannot disagree. Some have tried to
imitate him, some about their own stamp, and I don't
think any of them did a bad job with what

(01:15:39):
they were given, but what they were given was almost
almost all weak sauce. I imagine hear new Cravill playing a
hopefully hopeful soups in a bright costume, bringing truth and
justice to the world instead of trying to brood out
Batman or out brood Batman mittle Lass. That train has
sailed Reeve's version, even when he was losing, radiated hope
and goodness saved the aks for Bruce. Just give me

(01:16:00):
a hopeful fun Man of tomorrow. That's not a bad take, though,
I mean, I don't mind the separation of powers there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Yeah, I do stand by as someone who has plenty
of problems with Man of Steel. I do stand by
the fact that I feel like his Superman was a
little more hopeful that people give him credit for.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
But yeah, I again though part of the whole picture.
I agree that he's more I agree that he's not
as brooding as he's sometimes characterized. But big picture he
rounds up is for a lot of what people are
expecting out of Superman. They're not looking at those little gradients.
He rounded the fuck up to brooding.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
Yeah for them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
You know, yeah, I kind of get it when you're
looking at the history of it. You know, if you
were and a lot of people like seventy eight, this
was the most right ends we had was for seventy
eight And if you could pass along one note to
DC Studios, this is the best big screen Lex Luthor ever.
He's brilliant, unhinged, confident, and utterly focused on killing Clark.

(01:16:59):
Keep it up. Yeah, that sounds about It's about right. Yeah.
By the way, I can now show you the spots.
Remember when I told you that one of the things
I liked about this performance is that he like he
sings his monologues a little bit. One of these days
when we get to maybe sit and watch it or something,
or I can side by side. I really genuinely wanted
to point to a few lines about listen, just listen

(01:17:20):
to this and put like a metal guitar behind it.
See if you don't like, I'll just sit over there
and do like a nice, nice, chunky little riff behind you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
So, next one we got, Can you remember the first
live action Superman? Bubba. I'm not sure about the context
of this, but I'm thinking you want someone in our
own life who has made an impression on us like
Superman wood And for me, the person that comes to
mind is my grandfather, not exactly the direction, but I
like it. I remember first seeing him in the garden,
a big old Italian man with a garden hat on,
chewing on straw, literally doing six different things at once,

(01:17:50):
from planning to bowing, to chopping wood, to fixing his fence,
fixing his car, picking the vegetables he planted, et cetera.
I dig it, when you met Superman, what was the
world up to? The world had just come to terms
of what happened on eleven and personally, I remembered my own,
my town and neighborhood, really trying hard to help us
move on. They promoted comic books that are of local
book fairs and community stores like crazy. That's when my
father and grandfather started showing me comic books. I would

(01:18:13):
not have expected that to be like a major yeah
push in that area, but like kind of funny, well.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Like every all the comic books were pushing. They're doing there,
like nine to eleven comics.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
It was a very patriotic time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Yeah, it was a very patriotic time. Yeah, it's always
all like Spider Man hanging out with some firefighters and shit.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
That's funny. Though there are also surges around that time
in particular comic book sells, but I hadn't thought about
it specifically following nine eleven. Yeah, but yeah, anytime guns
get used, we go up in comic sales and flags. Right,
So I haven't how many Superman have you met at
this point? I haven't met too many. Since my grandfather
came into my into my and departed from my life.

(01:18:56):
He is the gold standard for me and what I
still try to represent daily. That's that sentence up. Sorry,
and then if you could pass one note to DC
Studios right now, just as Papolo two words, thank you,
that actually does fit, that actually does make sense. Yeah, right,
then we got all right, can you remember the first
live one again? Of course we're in the seventy eight sections,

(01:19:18):
So it was Christophe's Superman. I was like five six
years old and was so impressed by this man flying. Yeah,
what was the world up to here? In Columbia? We
had a horrible time the takedown of the Justice Palace,
all the dead people. Even my mom almost got caught
up on that. Fortunately left in time, So I thought,
why Superman couldn't save that people? That's entirely fair? Good God?

(01:19:38):
How many Superman have you met at this point in
your life? And who's your gold standard? All right? From
Christopher Reeves to Devin corn spuint, I've met ten Superman
if we count Tom Willing and Nicholas Cage. Actually yeah, yeah,
there is absolutely no living on who you can count
as a fucking Superman. I mean yeah, if there was
ever a logo in the film that I'm just gonna

(01:20:00):
I go for it. I love all of them. Henry
and Tyler are top, but Christopher Reeve Superman holds a
very special place in my heart. When I think of Superman,
his face is the one I see m M. I
mean it's a good list though, all right, and then
if you could pass one on. It's not about the actor,
it's about the character. His humanity means everything, darker, happy, tone,
all that part, all of all that is part of

(01:20:21):
who Superman is. I want to see more of the
men of still series, movies, video games, including more of
the Superman family, our superfamily. Also, please keep the underwear on,
and of course the winky face. I don't think the
underwear have any potential of going anywhere, and I'm pretty
happy about that too.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Eh. You know, God almost almost didn't include it. I
can see a future where he doesn't include it anymore,
Like no No.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
From the conversations I've seen, he's been sold thoroughly on it.
I think it's this one.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
I believe it to be integral.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Now. I get feelings, man, I get feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
I think I.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Think Gun is pretty willing to change it up. He
did say that Superman will have a different costume the
next time we see him. I am.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
I am curious about that, although although one I think
David was just insistent on the fucking trunks.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
From the documentary's story of it. And then two you
may have seen that picture going around of him without
the trunks on.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Well, I saw a loose fitting prototype of the suit,
and then I saw like a normal one, and I
thought it looked fine without the trunks. But the loose
fitting one is of course whatever one all the haters
glombed onto.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Well, now i'd have to see it to make sure
that you were talking about the same one. But in context,
the one that I've seen that doesn't look great. In
the context of them doing it also doesn't look great. Yeah,
it just doesn't look the same.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
I agree. I think I think you need the red
there to break it up. Like I've always been a
proponent of that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Well, I think it was the costume designer and that
in that little doco there, I think it was the
costume designer that says, like, when he doesn't have it on,
he just looks like a guy in a blue suit,
and when he has the trunks on, he looks like Superman.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
I can absolutely understand that. Yeah, all right, this is
the last guy in the seventy eight category. All right,
first live action one. I was eleven when I saw
Superman in the movie in the theater. Definitely made a
great impression on me. Loved the movie, the story and
the performances. The only drawback was the ending the time travel,
but it didn't ring true to me even then. I

(01:22:32):
had no trouble suspending my disbelief for everything else, I agree,
even if I had trouble clearly with my suspension for
a lot of the movie. Yeah, but that was me
seeing it now.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
Yeah, No, I mean when I was a kid, I
didn't think that him going back in time thing worked.
I was like, that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
That's the part that even if I recontext recontextualize it
for myself then like it's still yeah, I'm gonna be
with you. That's the part that's just not going to work. Still.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Yeah, I was three and I remember looking at my
parents and going, that would kill everyone on Earth.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
I really liked that of you doing it as creepy
as possible, that would kill everyone on it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Heath, Well, you know, I came from people who when
we would.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
Watch a choice as a chorus, suddenly for no reason.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
I came from people who when we would like watch
movies and TV shows and if something stupid happened on screen,
somebody was saying it, and usually because I was there,
they decided before I had, you know, sisters, they you know,
they were telling me like I was the idiot believing it.
So like I quickly adapted, of course, and before they

(01:23:46):
would have a chance to be like this is stupid,
I'd be like this is stupid, you know. Uh, And
I learned when not to say that, like you know
in church.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, there are boundaries. There are boundaries.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
I'm like, all right, well, but anyway, I got.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
To keep the protective mechanisms under wraps in certain contexts.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Yeah, yeah, no, I remember when I was a litle kid,
I would like float some certain ideas, like what thing
I'll understand about this? It's like, wouldn't it be better
if this is? This? Is this? No question? Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Okay, okay, fuck ye straight up, got that. Don't question it.
Defense if sometimes on the first round, if not the
first round, by the second or third round, yeah, I'd
get bounced down to that. Yeah not humor my questions
for the first attempt or too, but after that m
hm got a little spotty. Yeah, all right, here we

(01:24:43):
have when you met Superman? What was the world up to?
I just remember the by sententdal the bi centennial of
the year before, which is funny. I don't I don't
think I remember that even then. I think I was
remembering like the we got it, We've got another one
coming up. I think, mm hmmm, we got like a
two fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Is this you talking now? Are you still reading? And
you're just really into the into.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
The at this point, I'm just trying to remember, yeah, no, sorry,
we did transition to me just trying to remember when
the hell we would do a major event again. But
I don't know if anyone will notice at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Yeah, I'm not going to do anything for it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
I think in I think the bi centennial being the
person or the thing that this person remembers is going
to be unique for like the seventies at that spot,
uh huh, there it looks like right now at least
all right? How many Superman five? I love how deliberate
the number is on these. I haven't seen the new
movie yet. My gold standard is Christopher Reeve based on

(01:25:38):
his performance the based more on his performance than the
stories themselves. My first one was watching reruns of the
old TV show with George Reeves. Tyler Hookland is my
current favorite, at least until I see the new one.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
By the way, Hockland or heckling, Hecklan, Hecklan, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
You, that's the way I've always heard it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
I'm just gonna go with, well, we'll be wrong together
if I'm heckle and it is all right? And then
the last bit DC notes adapt Superman American Alien as
a mini series on Max as a prequel to the
current movie. God damn it. That's a great idea. Please
do it. M m yeah, I could dig it, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Don't want to upset the boot liquors, now hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
That'll be all right. That's what media is there to do,
is upset any and all things that call themselves anything
before you get too wrapped up in anything. Sure, taking
the piss, that's the that's the whole point.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
That sounds good. Actually, yeah, I gotta be real bad.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Didn't you like that segue?

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Right? Did?

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
All right? And we barreled back through into uh television?

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
Now right, I suppose, So what would be Superboy?

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Yeah, we're into the John Newton Dean Kane era.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
We're gonna call it roughly nineteen ninety as a back
as a backdrop. It's like Superboy eighty eight to ninety two. Yeah,
one hundred episodes, syndication. Yeah, uh, Lewis and Clark nineth
reading ninety seven, eight different episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
Two different Superboys by the way on that show.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Oh god, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that time. Who's
the other guy?

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
I don't remember?

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
I think I should have his name somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Oh yeah, we should. We should have his name because
the first one was like more of a Dean Kane situation,
like he was just a piece of ship and got.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
Sorry, yeah we're not. There would be no apologize.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Well, yeah, I don't show Dean Kane. I don't remember
what the first uh, the first guy with his issue was.
I can't if he died, I wouldn't feel bad.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Gerard Christopher, Yeah, there we go, all right. His I
just wanted to find his name, just to set his name,
and I'm happy I have not seen Superboy one moment
of it, so I have no idea that dude.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
I used to watch it when I was a kid,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Not the first fucking thing. Yeah, I'm gonna be alone
here though. That's one of those areas I'll have to
explore it was. It was on DC Universe for what
I think it's probably on hbox just as a who
who the fuck cares throw it on the server. But yeah,
like Lewis and Clark ninety three to ninety seven, eighty
seven episodes aired on ABC. I saw it on T

(01:28:21):
and T where it got mostly syndicated. All right, so
nineteen ninety that's the backdrop. By the way, these these
history lessons are about to get a lot shorter because
we're kind of back in the area where most of
us were alive. Yeah, Clinton takes over post Dragon conservatism.
Conservatism really gets started in earnest, starting to globalize our
economy a little bit more higher like NAFTA topic, all

(01:28:44):
that kind of crap going on. Cold War's mostly over.
We're entering different areas of thing. We don't really know
what to call it at this point. And then little
stuff like Waco, you know, just that kind of stuff
hanging around in this area. But you know, culturally's a
little different. Yeah, we're at like Jurassic Park, X Files, grunge,

(01:29:05):
just the word grunge in general. Yeah, Musically, we got
like all I Will Always Love You from the Bodyguard.
You remember that little gym oh sure. Movies wise, you're
looking at like you've got mail, that kind of thing.
The Got Milk campaign, I believe was was chilling around
this time. Yeah, like we're early days of just you know,

(01:29:26):
TV being a heavy hitter as far as like what
things were remembered for in general. But what's changed mostly
is like the media situation. I mean there's a there's
a lot, but like, yeah, I mean politics are what
they are, and economies leveled out a little post our
darkest previously darkest hour before, maybe not even our darkest,

(01:29:46):
but our darkest in most people's living memory. Anyway, media
changed a lot. So Blockbuster, that's that's that, that's it's
their time, right, Uh. Vhs and rentals are pretty much
everywhere you they're the ubiquitous thing. Now you've most homes
have a TV, most homes on top of that have

(01:30:07):
a VCR, and you know most homes are going to
have cable. And every time I said most, right, then
take like ten to twenty percent off, it degrades every
one of those you had a TV, and then you
were less likely to have the VCR on that crap, right,
and then you were less likely to have cable or
maybe you had one of those but not the other.

(01:30:28):
So yeah, there's still restrictions, like we're not everybody had everything,
It's not like that, but you're just way more likely
to be in the area of that. And you know,
most you're advertising has transferred over to digital by now.
I kind of realized as I was riding this up,
like you you previously prints still there, but you previously
relied on that almost primarily really up until almost the

(01:30:51):
nineteen seventy eight kind of situation, and then now we've
transferred over to like you saw this ad for the
thing that you were going to watch on television on
television m you didn't find out about it, and TV
guide probably at this point now. The other really interesting
part is right between these two, so like eighty eight
to ninety two and then ninety three ninety seven, right

(01:31:13):
in the fucking middle, super Boy would have missed the Internet,
but Lewis and Clark was right there at the cusp,
like right at the right at bulletin boards, you know,
by the.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Way, can I I did a little digging here. I
had always heard that he was fired. John Haymes Newton
was fired from Superboy because of a dui arrest or something,
and it looks like that was a thing, but he
claimed that that wasn't the reason he got fired. He
claimed that he decided to leave the show and the

(01:31:46):
producers kept begging him to come back. But everybody else
says that there were like on set accidents, probably because
he was drinking. There was some kind of weird letter
he wrote, but he was also trying to get like
a raise on the show, and they were like fuck off.
So anyway, some reports say he was fired, Some reports say, uh,

(01:32:08):
he quit, or he says he quit. Nobody else says
he keeps he quit whatever though, Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Yeah, that that sounds like erratic behavior from someone who's
trying to justify a lot of shit instead of apologizing
for it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
Uh huh it does.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Does It sounds exactly like that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Right? Yeah, I just didn't want to be like, you know,
leave it on that way. I'm not really sure what happened,
Like he claims he did nothing wrong. It was just
trying to get his money.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Yeah, go for it. Uh that that's a little that's
a little dirty. Didn't didn't know about that part of that.
When we inevitably do go try some super boy because
God knows, we'll just one day we'll get serious about
it for on a whim.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Yeah, oh no, I I when we when HBO Max
or DC Universe were where the fuck it was called
at the time came came.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Out Universe proper at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
Yeah, it was DC Universe proper.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
They had all the stuff everything, and uh I did.
I started playing super Boy from eighty eight and my
wife was just like, oh, this is so bad. I
was like, oh, yeah, it definitely is. It is terrible, But.

Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
Like I did, I watched like two minutes one time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
I had a big dumb grin on my face the
whole time. Though it was so bad, it was so bad,
I loved it though I remembered it definitely, like I
watched that ship when I was a kid, when I
could find.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
It as another song. We'll meet again, you know. I
don't know when, though I really don't. Sometime one day
we will meet again, all right where we were here?
So uh yeah, super Boy, poor thing. No internet, Leews
and Clark it's early, but you did have some internet.

(01:33:42):
And they were both smoke shows at the time, so
like yeah, they were like them, and you know X
files like there were There were a lot of early
oh my god, these are too most attracted people on
screen discussions shipping, and it's early days before we knew
what that term would ended up being.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
Yeah, now I'll put this. This is the first time
I remember hearing like negativity towards Superman or any any
like real like comic book kind of thing. Uh, because
I remember hearing people going, like at church and whatnot,
being like, I don't know about this new Superman show man,

(01:34:20):
like it seems like it's about more about Lois and
I don't know he.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Now that was that was a thing that was controversial.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they of course they were like, oh,
I don't want to I don't want a Mexican Superman.
And I was like, is he though?

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
Yeah, he was accused of basically every nationality you could
be accused of. He was accused of just not whiteness basically.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Right, and even Dean Kane recently mentioned that he he
people would say to him, I want Superman dot sushi man.
Yeah yeah, and I hate that for him, even though
he's a dick and he's a part of Ice. Now
fuck him. Yeah, uh yeah, that that's a weird turn
that he took yeah, considering all that, but not exactly

(01:35:05):
looking to victimize you at this time.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
That's my point, is like you, I want to feel
bad for for what he went through then, and then
he's just on the other side of it now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
He lived long enough to see himself become the villain.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
Gonna slap someone every time I hear that. I want
to stick like a stick with which I can hit
someone every time. All right, now playing into a little
bit that also was when we talked about it, like
death of story that deaths of Superman story, right, the

(01:35:42):
fucking between these two as well. So like we're in
the we're in the post modern kind of era, right
of Superman and comics in general, they're starting to like
eat themselves alive as far as we're paying attention to
ourselves now, like Watchmen, M is out there, but something
you would call it authenticity crave. He's kind of really

(01:36:05):
the that's the crux of this whole era. I think
the grind all that was that. I mean, it's just
an authenticitic crave in general for all of our what
we wanted in our media.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
M M.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
I don't really know any of these, either of these
shows well enough to know what an episode's story was, like,
what the reality tell was, whether they were stretching too far,
wouldn't I think as much.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
I don't remember Superboy as well. It's like I have
vague memories of it, you know, and it was very
much just you know, a crisis arises, Superman stops it.
You know, Superboy stops it. Yeah. Yeah, Leewis and Clark
had more serialization to it, and it was a good show,
like if you can get like, yes, the special effects
look bad and sometimes it gets cheesier than you wanted

(01:36:47):
to be, but it was better quality than the nineties
flash show. There was a serialization to it. It's absolutely
worth watching.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
For Terry Hatcher, I could see about this thing. Really,
Jesus got very well at the time, and yeah, she was,
Oh my god, that was without doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
And dude, like.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Josh was on the cover of every fucking magazine you
could find for years.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
Josh was such a fucking dope. Lex Luthor he just
was so.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
Cool him at all. I do need to go watch
a little bit just to see what his lex was like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
Uh, but yeah, like I dude, I remember like when
when the magazine articles were coming out, were like Dean
Kane is like in the wife beater and like crazy,
you know, like kind of like spoon hugging Lois wherever.
He's got the Superman tattoo. And I remember everybody being
mad and be like, I don't like that Superman costume.
That's not fucking Superman. I was like, I don't think

(01:37:44):
that's gonna actually be the outfit. I think that was
just a promotional thing. Well you're a kid, you don't
know what you're talking about, all right, yeah, all right,
but you know for what it's worth. And and this
is why I would still like, I would still consider,
you know, creating a custom Dean Kane Superman, like I
don't want to blame his Superman for his real life

(01:38:06):
fucked up behavior. Like his Superman was great. I really
liked his Superman. He was a he was a good guy,
like multi verse wise, if we're just considering, like.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
I hadliness of any given Superman.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
I have a fondness for his Superman, like he was
married to Lois. At some point on the show, they yeah,
they had to keep pushing the back because they wanted
to like sync up with the comics or whatever, or
like either that or they wanted. The comics had to
push it back, one of them had to push it back.
But man, I did like that show. I did. I

(01:38:42):
did like a fair amount of.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
It, and that well at all. I mean I caught
passing episodes, but I really did not tune into that
regularly in the slightest.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
Yeah, yeah, there's some goodness there, there's some goodness.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
I was in and out of comics so much at
the time, like I'd been obsessed with it. I had
been obsessed with it early on. And then there's this
area where, like right in here, where I was just
playing so many sports. Yeah, I did not keep a
lot of time for much at all, And then honestly,
when I did, it was four cartoons, primarily because this

(01:39:17):
was also the like the time I made was going
to be for like that period of God, I don't
know if anything in my life has ever been as
exciting as getting to sit down and really watch like
a like a Tiny Toons, an animaac a Batman, the
animated series, all back to back. That was the absolute
peak of my existence for a long time, getting home

(01:39:39):
early enough to catch all those.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Fuck me god, yeah shit, I'll put it to you
this way, though, a week. I like Lois and Clark
enough as a show that I'm I'm fingers crossing it
that there is some sort of explanation for dan Kine,
like maybe there was a tumor that he didn't know
was affecting his behavior and he gets it sorted like

(01:40:04):
I don't want him to be a trash person. I
really don't.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
I think you're stuck with that moment.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
I know it, but I don't want it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
I get it. I would like I would like it
if all of the Superman matched my values, but that
is not working out on this one man. To that end,
you were not you were not alone in your feelings.
So the other big batch was or the other similar

(01:40:34):
size batch was Lewis and Clark with the side of
one super Boy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
Uh huh?

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
So I that at you real quick? Can't you remember
the first live action Superman? So this one? I think
Adventures of Superman was the first time I saw a
live action Superman. I was about eight. I really enjoyed
watching it whenever I could catch it on TV. Lewis
and Clark the New Adventure of Superman made a big impression.
I could enjoy the series more because I could watch
it each week as it aired, and I thought Dean

(01:41:02):
Kane was so hot, so I scandal noted. Uh huh, yeah,
I feel you, man, I'm sorry, all right? When you
met Superman? What was the world up?

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
Too?

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Lois and Clark came out in nine three, so I
was in fourth grade. We should be about Sam che
that roughly. That series incorporated groundbreaking technology into many episodes, holograms,
virtual reality, things with the Internet, computers, et cetera. As
a nine year old, though it felt very futuristic to me,
I dig that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
I also remember seeing Dean's Kane. Dean Kane's face everywhere.
He was the guy for a minute. That completely tracks
with my memory.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
I remember seeing Dean's Kane and I was scarred for life.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
A lot of people wanted to see Dean's Kane at
that time, friend, like you would have. People fought you
for turning that into a felony at that time, and
it was he was sought after, all right. And then,
how many Superman have you met? I think I met
seven live action Superman at this point. I've loved each
of them for different reasons, even though I didn't watch

(01:42:01):
Superman the movie until recently. I feel you. I grew
up knowing that Christopher Eve was Superman, and watching the
Superman doc really drives that home. I really want to
watch that. Keep getting didn't you didn't you see it?

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
Yeah? Yeah I did.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
It's great. You said you cried on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
That was oh god. Yeah, drink plenty of water before
you watch that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:21):
Yeah, eat something salty, Yeah, prepare I will that. Actually
that excited me and pushed the date off all it wants.
All right, honestly I love Brandon Ralth though, although it
isn't because of Superman returns, so that probably doesn't count.
Henry Cavill was great. It's too soon to make that
call with David corn sweat. Dean Kane definitely ate it anymore. Man,

(01:42:43):
I think it's Tyler Hecklin. I loved Superman and Lois
and I really loved his Superman and Clark. He's nice
on the eyes, and he's compassionate but still intimidating. He
seems untrustworthy. He is yet to have any real life scandals,
or he seems trustworthy. He has yet to have any
real life scandals. Yeah that that's not about thee US there. Yeah,
I don't think I have heard anything out of out

(01:43:04):
of heckling. I think the only the only problematic person
on set I were uh around the CW was that
Uh was it Jonathan?

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
Oh yeah, he Connor did. Yeah, No, it was no,
it was it was Jonathan.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
What was the name of the older one, the blonde Jonathan?

Speaker 2 (01:43:21):
Yeah, okay, I mean they were not they were twins,
so they're.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
Not you know, but yeah, the one that, yeah, the taller.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
It was Jonathan. It was Jonathan and Jordan.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Jordan goddamn, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
Jonathan, kill me much. Well, yeah, the first one was
short and blonde, and the second one was tall and
dark headed.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
Yeah. There was some kind of scandal where he decided
it wasn't I don't know. There was some people saying
that he was an anti vaxxer, and then there were
other people who were, and then like there was a
bunch of stuff that was like, no, he just didn't
want to do this anymore. He just decided he didn't
want to be an actor anymore. I believe that he
was an anti vaxxer, but.

Speaker 1 (01:43:59):
I didn't know where I'm sympathy's lde. Some parts of
it sounded shitty. Some of it. He just seemed like
he wanted him to help. They ad didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
I had varying degrees of how I felt about that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
I ultimately didn't care. The show was good, moved on.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
I got used to the new guy. He seemed I
really sunk in with him.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Yeah, the guy new guy looked more like Jordan's brothers
so and looked at it like Tyler Hecklins. So I
was like, oh, okay, this was correcting a mistake.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
Yeah, And after he stopped kind of doing like there
was a transition where he was kind of doing a
little bit more of an impression of the first guy
and just sort of got into the role himself.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Yeah, there was. There was also a thing where, like,
for the first two years or whatever it was tow
or three years, I didn't ever totally buy that the
guy playing Jonathan was a football star at his previous school.
I'm like, you are a little squat, tiny little thing.
I don't Yeah, I don't buy it. I don't buy it.
New guy. I'm like, oh, yeah, you're some kind of

(01:44:57):
damn backer. I don't know the terms, but you hit
people though something to do with a back and put
pads on before there's there are lines and quarters and shit,
I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
I've talked about this too. The there was with the
I hate that people can't throw, like don't have a
good throwing motion on screen. Just it pisses me off.
I don't know what, but yeah, there was a throwing
motion issue with the first guy. All right, and then
notes here, please have nothing Nathan Fillion as Guy Gardner

(01:45:29):
and Alan Tudic as any character but as a person,
not invoice. Only appear on screen together. And also please
gust Donald Faison and Zac Graft together in something. These
are both good suggestions.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
I'm I am ninety nine percent sure that this was
my wife.

Speaker 1 (01:45:46):
I'm serious. Yeah, that would that would track.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
All of that sounds absolutely like her.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
That does. That does make sense. That would be funny.
I'm going to I'll start that once. You can question
ear later. Next one, I got Lewis and Clark as well.

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
If that was her. She did put in a request
that I mentioned Smallville because she watched that as well.
She forgot to mention Smallville.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
Oh okay, well that's fair though. All right then, so
all right, next one. First one, while I did see
bits of Christopher Reeve's movies when they were when they
would air in syndication as Saturday Afternoon Movies. The first
live action Superman I really connected with was Dan Kane
and Lewis Lewis and Clark, The New Adventure of Superman.
All right. I was eleven years old when the show premiered,

(01:46:35):
and it was appointment viewing every Sunday night on ABC.
I do kind of there's a part of me nostalgic
for the air where you where, the era where you
knew what night it was, but part of me knows
that that's better as a memory. And it was a
pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
Oh, it was total pains.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Wouldn't actually want to go back that if I had.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
To, absolutely not. I only have appointment to TV because
a podcast. So I'm like, damn it Star trek Night. Yeah,
I got to make sure I get that in case
we're doing it soon.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
And the appointment is just to watch it, you know,
five minutes before the actual recording.

Speaker 2 (01:47:12):
Right. Well, you know, I don't ever know Mat, Like
you know, Matt and I are both pretty bad about
like not knowing when we're going to record. So it's
actually you and I are pretty bad at it. Yeah,
it's like pulling teeth. Yeah. Yeah, so I'd be like, hey,
I I messaged man, I's like, hey, when do you
want to cast this week? And he was just like Sunday,
question mark, And I'm like yeah, okay, He's like cool,

(01:47:33):
but like we don't have a time, like and it
was it's been like days since the last episode came out.
So fuck, it's just the way we do every week. Yeah,
but whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
Hell, I've intentionally delay viewing things because we were going
to talk about it and I wanted to not forget it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Yeah, that's that's a separate issue. Yeah, but it sort
of part of the whole though.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
Yeah, altogether, the timings all kinds off.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Man. You know, Like I was thinking, like, because I
started this.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
Uh much appreciate the flexibility.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
Yeah, me too. Hey, I started this newsletter thing on substack,
and I've been looking at other people's substacks and it's
just like it's a miss. It's a newsletter for me,
and it's a newsletter that's just like everything that I'm
working on and maybe I'll have something to talk about.
But like I've been looking at other newsletters and going like, well,

(01:48:28):
what are these people doing that I would like to do,
you know, like, let's get some inspiration. I've been looking
at chips the Darski's a lot and just going, fuck,
he's busy, and I like admire every fucking thing he's
doing here. And he's like he does this thing where
he's like, you know, uh, upcoming, and he has like

(01:48:49):
just a list, like a fucking just a ridiculous litany
of projects and specific issues and when they're coming out,
and I'm like, I don't want to commit to any
of that, but my god, I wish I had a
section that told when everything I was doing was coming
out to thee. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:10):
Also that his is one of the ones I've run
across before outside of you even mentioning it, and somewhere
in there I realized also because I'd never seen him
much until recently, but every picture I seen him, he
just the man has so much fun in his clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
Every picture he's just having a great time with the outfit.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
M h was.

Speaker 1 (01:49:32):
Also, he's on vacation or doing a serious thing at
any given time, based on what he's dripped.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
Yeah, he's recently wrapped what he referred to as his
Hollywood Chip era.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
Yes, yes, he's he. I didn't I really spend a
lot of time with him until very very recently myself.
But he looks fun.

Speaker 2 (01:49:52):
Yeah. He went to some premieres. Was baffled about why
his name was in the credits on Fantastic Fortesta.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
Yeah, that was the one that caught me. That was
really good, hilarious piece.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
It was like, you're a good dude, Like that's not
a reason.

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
You could have invited me to anything for being decent?
All right, this one? So when what was the world
up to at the time? I was in middle school
in Clinton was president, it was puberty and all that jazz. Yeah,
I get that. How many Superman have you met? Except
for Kirk Allen and the New Adventure Superman cartoon from
the sixties, I've experienced every other Superman in live action
and animation. Tim Daly George Newburn from the DCAU is

(01:50:32):
my gold standard, while animated Superman isn't cartoonish. Yeah, yeah,
I mean Tim Daly's a fine that's a fine way
to rest anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Yeah, Tim Day and Quancy Brown are my Superman and
h Lex Luthor ideal Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think every other version for you
that doesn't isn't a little bit gruff doesn't quite stick,
and it seems to be a requirement for your lexus.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
I don't know, because, like Quancy Brown is, it's like
he knows when to be gruff at.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
The right times, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
He knows when to be very calm and collected, and
he speaks very slowly and intentionally, and then all of
a sudden he loses his shit mercy, you know. Yeah, dude,
I fucking love Clancy Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:51:18):
He belts. I love being able to use that term,
and it really really means something. He belts at you.

Speaker 2 (01:51:23):
I don't ever want to go to conventions. I hate conventions.
I have no interest, But my god, I'd love to
meet Clancy.

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
I just want to be hugged with those big guys.

Speaker 2 (01:51:38):
I just want to hug him. That's the thing. It's
like he doesn't feel like like I just you know,
I just wanted to look at me and say, you
know that he didn't wash his hands because he's evil
or something, you.

Speaker 1 (01:51:51):
Know, yeah, yeah, he Oh god, it seems to be.
I mean that most counts are every kind. I've heard
him beats. Dude, this person had n a on the
studio notes at the moment, no notes it's a shame
that no might be great full endorsement or I don't know,

(01:52:13):
one magical wish that won't come true.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
Or they're just like, yeah, fuck it, I'm not doing
this too. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
I think it's in the middle there, yeah, maybe next person.
Of course, I think it was Lewis and Clark. I
was about ten, thought it was neat loved Terry Hatrow's
Lewis say, there you go some love for the other side.
I don't know what was the roil up to. I
don't know about the real world, but it may have
been ninety six. So I was all into fantasy stuff,

(01:52:39):
girl groups and boy bands for the rage Tyrrell was it?
And TV placed uh yeah, placed music yet that Yeah,
so that that was about right for ninety six for
my memory of a lot of that too, mm hmm.
And then honestly, I don't I know this sounds odd,
but I genuinely don't remember listening to music until about
ninety seven. Anyway, interesting wasn't part of my life until then.

(01:53:03):
She just didn't grow up listening to It's interesting. Nobody around
me listening to music.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
You're so into music.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
Yeah, I know, it's like a lot of time to
make up, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:53:11):
I mean for me, you know, I was already like
fucking listening to Gangster just Paradise, like I had a
coolio album I had. I was mostly listening to rap,
but I was also listening to stuff whatever was on
the Batman and Robin soundtrack and not Batman and Robbin
Batman Forever soundtrack was ninety five. I was probably listening
to Fresh Prince, DJ Jazzy Jeff Yeah, but also like

(01:53:33):
Randy Travis and Simple Minds and the Cars and uh
Flatten Scrugs bluegrass, Like dude, I've been I was fucking
raised on music. Dude, I just listened to all sorts
of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
It was. It was just all gossible. I mean we
even had like I've got musicians in the family, in
close family. I spent a ton of time on my
grant parents with them playing stuff. But it like she
she's still a fucking amazing pianist. But yeah, just we
didn't discuss anything else. I like gospel music and yeah

(01:54:05):
whatever's on in the background was fine, but you just
sing along with it. It just wasn't a big focus
in my life in the last.

Speaker 2 (01:54:10):
My grandparents used to watch the What here was a
weird intersection is like my grandparents were into like gospel music,
but like they would they would play on fucking CMT
or whatever it was, No it was TNN. They would
play the Statler Brothers Variety hour. So it would be like,
as a little kid, I was sitting there like watching

(01:54:31):
funny comedy sketches, and then they would do some like
gospel song and the one one Statler brother with a
real deep voice, like I liked him, so I was
like hell yeah. But then like I would go home
and my mom was like sitting there like smoking a cigarette,
drinking a beer, and she's like, oh, you like the
Statler Brothers, And she's like pulling out like the old

(01:54:54):
seventies Statler Brothers, like you know, Galton flowers on the
wall that don't bother me. And I'm like, all right,
fuck yeah. They're singing about drinking and ship. It was
like a weird.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
We're partying, all right, all.

Speaker 2 (01:55:08):
Righty oh, Statler Brothers ain't so square. So I got
comedy and country music and gospel, and I still like
gospel music to some degree, not like gaither or shit,
but like old good Western ship a little bit, you know, yeah,
same same with like some blues and well.

Speaker 1 (01:55:29):
There's there's a part of the there's a part of
like the harmonies and a little bit of stuff that's
unique to how gospel does things that moved its way
into other parts of music that, yeah, done the right way,
it'll it'll make your hair stand up. But oh yeah,
it's not gonna be daily listening for me in the
slightest Like I would never turn that on and roll
like in my actual life. I'll just sort of hear
it in passing or God forbid. I'll actually just listen

(01:55:51):
to the catalogs of it I have in my memory.

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
Yeah, oh no, everyone, I need to refer to it.
I'll listen to my friend Kevin Nutt, god my parents
grew up with. But he does a show called Center's
Crossroads and he'll just play like old spirituals and shit,
like just old records of blues and old gospel shit.
I'll tune into that every once in a while and

(01:56:16):
just like get down with it for a minute, just like,
oh this is so good. God, I wish I had
a cigarette. That's what I associated with it just like, yeah,
that's kid.

Speaker 1 (01:56:28):
Yeah, anyway, all right, So how many Superman have you
met at this point? I think I've seen them all
at this point. Before this week, I would say Tom
Willing was my Superman, with Tyler Hecklin being second. But
I can tell that David will probably be it, but
if he continues with role for the next five ten years.
Tom and Tyler were both Clark at different ages, but
they fought to but they fault to protect the earth

(01:56:51):
and stand up for what is right. They were both
learning lessons about themselves in humanity. They both protected their
friends and family. This is a sentiment I'm going to
share with a lot of people I think is Yeah,
he's got potential.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
And then a note to DC Studios, make sure you
have Superman be the example that all the others can
strive to be also Superman in this universe seems to
already embraced TeamWorks, So let's turn that up a notch.
In World's Finest movie about Superman and Batman working together,
not against each other. Villain Brainiac because we still haven't
seen him in Love and Live Action movie.

Speaker 2 (01:57:23):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:57:24):
That that really is gonna be a very exciting version.
I've seen live version of Brainiacs.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
That I like, like Kryptons is Dude, crypt I was
about to say, they are gonna have to like you
can say all you want about like Snyder's too gritty
and all that shit, but like I feel like Crypton
was what Snyder fucking would have done well. I mean
it was also a David Goyer thing, sure, so like
Goyer was so tied in so deeply with with with Snyder.

Speaker 1 (01:57:51):
For men, but Gorier refuses to not be grounded. Yeah,
they've all got to have like a grounded, gritty origin
story for it. It seems for.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
Yeah, Goyer likes to be grounded, but I feel like
that was in That was my favorite version of Brainiac
I've ever seen was Krypton. And if I you know,
I dude, I would just love to be.

Speaker 1 (01:58:16):
Like my favorite Lobo up to this point.

Speaker 2 (01:58:18):
Yeah, of course, I would love to just like pop
over to James Gun if I could, Like I've got
so much I want to say to James and just
be like, bro, have you seen Krypton, Because like I
would say, like if you have not skip the show
except look at Brainiac and how it's portrayed and look
at Lobo how is portrayed and just say, you're good man.

(01:58:40):
It's a good show. It is, like, you know, pretty
damn good show. I'm sorry I didn't continue Wallace Day,
oh my god, but uh they totally wasted her on Batwoman.

Speaker 1 (01:58:53):
Yeah. Yeah, but I mean I wish, like if I wish,
if I had the like I wish I could have
done like another half a season or so and just
taken the budget out of a few scenes that looked amazing.
Trust me, Yeah, looked looked as good as you would
hope for, especially where it air and all that. But
just if I had to just budget it out, just

(01:59:15):
take off some of the look amazing to get some
of the story. They had a great story too.

Speaker 2 (01:59:18):
They had a great story.

Speaker 1 (01:59:19):
Yeah, and they really kind they I mean, like one
of the last things we saw was you know, a
bunch of fucking hawk wings.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Like yeah, they were going to do to the Rontgarian War.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
Yeah yeah, and a deeply good doomsday.

Speaker 2 (01:59:33):
That was a cool looking doomsday. And you know, origin.

Speaker 1 (01:59:37):
The most I've ever cared about itays.

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
You remember, like one of the rebels that was in
that that was down there where it was lady from
ted Lasso m Like i'd you know, forgotten that until
I was like, oh yeah, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:59:52):
Every last I would think, yeah, that's not where I
met you.

Speaker 2 (01:59:56):
Like if you're doing, if you're doing like the crib notes,
like you skip a lot of that. But like, for real,
Krypton was a good show. It was a good show.

Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
It was a good show. Definitely worth your time and
worth your time to yeah, just watching the background for
you have too, but every once in a while, make
sure you sit down and check into a good scene.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
They had some really cool stuff that still like sticks
with me, that like haunts me, like certain certain elements
like that fucking religious character with the multi mask multi
faced mask, and like some of that ship was who
haunting just weird that one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
Uh yeah, I forgot about that now. The one that
gets me is the his buddy and doomsdays well, like
where where his buddy sacrifices himself for it's not jor
l it's drills.

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
Like dad second grandfather.

Speaker 1 (02:00:46):
Yeah, yeah, his buddy sacrifices them get out and gets you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:52):
Oh yeah, that was tough.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
That was that great TV.

Speaker 2 (02:00:57):
By the way. By the way, uh, I don't if
you pieces together you remember that tall drink of water
that was like hitting on lighta ood. He was in
the like a little academy or whatever with.

Speaker 1 (02:01:09):
Her, No, not of fan.

Speaker 2 (02:01:12):
Uh well, I'll tell you it's is Aaron Pierre is
the dudes playing John Stuart Yeah, and Lanterns. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:19):
I saw that mentioned somewhere that he had he had
been in a DC thing before. I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
Yeah, I told. I told Beth the other day. I'm like,
you know, had light a cheat just went ahead and
just like cheated or left sedge jail or segal for
this dude. I wouldn't blame her.

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
I think it was a gift. I'm not.

Speaker 2 (02:01:36):
I'm not sure though, Like that's not a bad looking dude,
my god.

Speaker 1 (02:01:41):
Yeah I did did. I don't think there were any
bad choices on that planet. From what I can tell.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Look like if he, you know, got had a little
hard he crack a skull my god.

Speaker 1 (02:01:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:54):
All right.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
This last one in this little category is for super Boy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:57):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (02:01:59):
First live action on super Boy in nineteen eight ninety two.
I was two and three years old and blown away
by the storylines and the setting of then current time
with a young Superman before Smallville series m that would
just genuinely be coming of age. What was the world
up to late nineteen eighty eight? I was two. It
was near the end of the Cold War. We were

(02:02:20):
seeing the unofficished beginning of the nineties. Movies, music, and
video games. Attitudes were more forward looking and hopeful. Actually,
that attitude part tracks from my vague memories of it.
How many Superman have you met? At this point? Seven
six Live Action went animated. I love them all, whether update, updated,

(02:02:41):
or alternate at a certain point in time. And Superman
in general's greatest strength is his partial setting in current history.
I'm not sure I understand that sentence entirely.

Speaker 2 (02:02:50):
I was just thinking, I'll at it for a second. Wait, what,
give me a second.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
Nope, there's a word on here. I'm just not gonna
be able to get it. I'm sorry, all right, I like,
I think I have it, but it's not close enough.

Speaker 2 (02:03:06):
That's because of that time you jumped off that thing
into that wagon.

Speaker 1 (02:03:09):
That could very much be yeah, yeah, yeah, all right.
And then the last bit was like the DC the
d C stuos and yeah, have fun, have fun, and
show why Superman is the greatest superhero Yeah, I like
that though. Sure, that's pretty simple. I really kind of
kind of desperently wish i'd ask for like a everyone's
been so very specific about the number.

Speaker 2 (02:03:31):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:03:32):
I almost wish I'd asked for the atomized version for
some but that was gonna be it for the super
boin at the moment. Although that question is gonna bother
me if if anyone wants to clarify that one, I
am very sorry. The next bit though into television as well,
because it's you know, spoiler alert, gonna be mostly there
for a second. All right, we're gonna bounce back and forth,
I guess really, but we're gonna have a smallville obviously, right.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03:57):
So we're in the two thousands now, two thousand one,
two eleven, ten seasons, two and seventeen fucking episodes at
cocking in at like forty four minutes CW Network in
a specific place.

Speaker 2 (02:04:11):
Actually it was w B at the time. WB Network,
which was also for three seasons ran Superman, the animated series,
so you know we had Superman covered. Huh.

Speaker 1 (02:04:23):
There's a complicated, weird time where like it kind of
reminds me a little bit of what you can find
on say HBO Max, it's kind of accidentally a little
a little bit all the DC stuff you wanted, but
not everything.

Speaker 2 (02:04:36):
Yeah, So, like around what was it, two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, we got Justice League, which was
still very Superman heavy, the animated series coming off of
originally Batman animated series. Right, you know, there was a
strong sentiment like back then, from maybe midway through the
nineties to even through some of Smallville. I remember having

(02:05:01):
conversations with people that the sentiment basically was DC and
WB are scared to do Superman because they don't know
what to do with them, so they're going to keep doing.
The sentiment was that Superman as we had previously seen
it will not work in the modern age, Like we

(02:05:21):
can't have that same stupid fucking costume. We can't have
him singing, flying around, singing talking about like you know
how you know, happy and everything he is, Like, we
can't have him being this like completely altruistic character who
does good for good's sake. He has to be deeply flawed.

(02:05:41):
There was like.

Speaker 1 (02:05:42):
Deep in the area two where people are just being
paid fifty grand at a time to take a swing.

Speaker 2 (02:05:47):
At this script and it was also big names too,
but we went, like I remember this because I was
a stupid, fucking geek at the time. The whole time,
Like I remember having conversations out, Yes, yes, Christopher Reeve, hope,
they're going to come back, He's going to come back.
He's got to do Death of Superman. Then his tragedy occurs,

(02:06:09):
we went to, yeah, we're gonna do they might use
CGI to do it, blah blah blah. But at the
same time, like Warner Brothers was actively courting the death
of Superman storyline, That's what they wanted from Kevin Smith.
That's what they, you know, fucking wanted from Tim Burton.
And when the Tim Burton narrative really started taking off
and we got to know, like, oh, they're doing Nicholas Cage,

(02:06:31):
it's got to be Tim Burton, everyone went exactly, you
can't do Superman like he originally was. You've got to
do this fucking dark take on him, just like in
how they did it for Batman. Because the Burton Batman
was a shift, a complete shift from the sixty six Batman.
People were saying, you can't do that corny shit anymore.

(02:06:52):
You got to make him a dark character.

Speaker 1 (02:06:54):
So if we did a version of this episode for Batman,
it would have a much wider gap on screen genuinely
than Superman has even had. What I mean, really, I
don't think So what is between sixty six and like Keaton?

Speaker 2 (02:07:12):
What is between sixty six and Keaton is super Friends
on screen?

Speaker 1 (02:07:17):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:07:17):
Yeah? New adventures? Are you talking about like live action?

Speaker 1 (02:07:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:07:20):
Uh nothing, nothing like you You just you.

Speaker 1 (02:07:23):
Have all animated adventures for keeping it at Ault for forever.

Speaker 2 (02:07:27):
And a lot of those Adam a lot of those
Adam West did the voice for, Like it was the
same tone and everything, so like when Batman comes into it,
it was a complete tone shift, but the same way
people were saying back then, you can't do Superman. Warner
Brothers knows you can't do Superman. But you also they're
scared of doing a dark version of Superman. And that's

(02:07:49):
what that. You know, they think Smallville is stalling, whether
you like it or not, is stalling because they're like, well,
we're not gonna no flight snow tights. We're just gonna
do Clark and you know, and I'm over here going
like bitch. I remember when Goff and Miller were talking
about and Marrow and Wizard Magazine that they were going
to do a show called Gotham. Yeah, that was the

(02:08:12):
original pitch was Gotham. It was a young Bruce Wayne,
and then it got shifted to to Smallville.

Speaker 1 (02:08:21):
Well at that point when you look at the history,
but Superman, for better words, had more practice on screen
and had done okay mmm, it would have been a
more reliable thing to pull out of the two right
then at this the only other one was a complete
sea change.

Speaker 2 (02:08:37):
I don't think so. No. I think at the time
they were about equal because you'd had two serials from Batman,
you had a TV show that was pretty campy at
that and at that time you'd had at that time,
you'd had all four of the movies, just like Superman
had all four of his movies and the like like Superman,

(02:08:57):
the fourth one had killed it, and they were looking
to reinvigorate the character in some new way. They were
going for Gotham. Let's dude Bruce before he was Batman.
That didn't fly because wb was like, no, we've got
some irons in the fire, were talking about you can
do a Superman. We all have anything for him right now,
And they did small Ville well.

Speaker 1 (02:09:18):
I think there's I think they're both there though, like there,
it's gonna be one of those where like there's several
reasons this happened. Yeah, Batman was busy the dreaded TV embargo. Yeah,
I mean Batman was busy and doing well over there
with the business, like other things were riding on his business.

Speaker 2 (02:09:37):
So like, no, he wasn't though he wasn't though not
that time, Like Batman was dead because of Batman and
Robin in ninety seven, they were talking to Darren Aronofsky
about doing some kind of fucking bullshit with Batman in
Hell's Kitchen or some shit I don't even know, like
it was Batman as a fry cook, like they didn't
know what the fuck they were doing. Batman was dead.

Speaker 1 (02:09:55):
In the giant gap between the actual human faces got
you really only have like a couple of tents go
up at all, and one of them is an animated
series that's still legendary, like yeah, the thing about Batman.
The other like this version of this episode with Batman
is again a third of this size almost at this point,
like what do you even have? You have cereals that

(02:10:17):
almost no one's seen. And then Adam West shows up
and then like fucking a quarter century later another dude
shows up.

Speaker 2 (02:10:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the Batman's stuff was about
ten years after for sure as far as like where
it lies on the timeline. But I mean it had
an equal screen time.

Speaker 1 (02:10:36):
Well maybe, I mean, what the one being a longer
series that gets you some decent stuff, and then I
know there's a few movies.

Speaker 2 (02:10:42):
Yeah, I mean small Smallville knocked his dick in the dirt.
Once that was done, Yeah, Superman have won that battle
for a minute for sure. Well, still it still has.

Speaker 1 (02:10:53):
Well let me do one part quickly, like the there's
a skip ahead, but still like just a little bit
of the backdrop that we all kind of know at
that point, Like it's two thousand and one. This show
like aired like a month after nine to eleven. Yeah,
like it was fucking right right after I mean, w
just taken office. It was going weird anyway, Like it

(02:11:14):
was alright, it was already it was already an odd time.
And and then and then that happened, and like the
whole fucking world was just very confused for a little while.
And then and then like they just threw this thing
at it. But must have been a meat grinder, did
okay then, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:11:29):
This was the thing people needed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:11:33):
It really does seem to be a thing we clutch for,
is these little symbols like this.

Speaker 2 (02:11:38):
I mean it was WB, so you know, a big
chunk of the viewing population didn't have it completely. Like
that was one of those things about w B and UPN,
Like if you had cable you probably had it, but
then like there sometimes you had it if you had antenna.
It was a fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (02:11:53):
So that was the weird thing, all right. That was
a strange bit. You I can't tell if it meant
it was more or less likely to be on your
screen because like, yeah, if you had a cable package,
it was in there for sure. I guess it was
more likely like if you just had like the four
channels and then whatever the fuzzy channel was, if you
got it, the fuzzy channel probably had this on it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:14):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:12:15):
I think you just I think it was increased circulation
if anything. But we had like this was where nationalism
began in our country, in particularly, like it was the
rise of what we started as patriotism, announcerting some naturalism
bullshit we've got the beginning of all that paranoia. Just
it was it really was like there was a lot

(02:12:35):
of people like we were idolizing heroes in every form
we could find them, you know, we were we were
taking time out to talk about our first responders in
ways that we never even thought of before, and like
all that valid, but all of it happening in like
a certain kind of wave that we'd never really quite
done that kind of thing before altogether. But it was

(02:12:58):
a weird thing to coincide with like just a couple
of years before, we're like the dot com bubble would
just burst on us and fucked us again. Like yeah,
so we were like going in and out of a
possible recession at the same time. And then like culturally,
like Rally TV pops in and rears its ugly little
head in my opinion, So we have these shitty shows
like Big Brother.

Speaker 2 (02:13:20):
Oh my god, Oh my god, I can't believe you
said that. You know, I watched Big Brother, right, I know?
All right? Can I tell you this. We found out
because they did like a sneak peek at Amazing Race
I'm Big Brother, and they did it because like the
entire cast of the Amazing Race this year is big
our Big Brother people and Taylor and Kyland, who were

(02:13:42):
on Big Brother, are running together as a couple on
Amazing Race. And Taylor announced it on her social media
and like, James Gunn replied to it with a bunch
of praising hands. Apparently James Gunn is a big mother
an Amazing Race fan. I was so fucking ecstatic about that,
Like I was like looking through the news, I'm like,

(02:14:05):
see what James said. Oh my god, he likes Big
Brother Tomazing Race.

Speaker 1 (02:14:11):
That's probably like him. And what's your name? Jennifer Hollins like, yeah,
sit down and make time show like y'all do like.

Speaker 2 (02:14:19):
You once again, I gotta talk to James.

Speaker 1 (02:14:23):
The thing that couples do is sit down and.

Speaker 2 (02:14:26):
Oh it's so much fun to just sit and ship
on like the decisions people are making. Yeah, people do.
Like why would he say? Why would he tell her
she he's got the power? Funck? Shut up? But yeah, no,
that's another thing I want to talk to James good about, Like, dude,
you like Amazing Race and Big Brother, Like fucking tell
me you're watching the MTV is a challenge, Like that's

(02:14:47):
my favorite one. That's my favorite one anyway TV.

Speaker 1 (02:14:53):
I mean, he's done a good job of explaining kind
of how it managed to work anyway, even though like, yeah,
it's a long story, but.

Speaker 2 (02:15:01):
I'll tell you this too. The Villains is fun. It's
a weird show on Peacock I think or Paramo, I
can't remember, but Joel mchal hosts it, and it's just
like a bunch of different villains from different reality shows.
But Joel McKell is just funny.

Speaker 1 (02:15:17):
Ship that maybe where i've seen the title is Joel
McKell probably just showed up anywhere. It just probably in
the algorithm. Was like you saw community here one time.

Speaker 2 (02:15:25):
All you know, all these people like a crazy did did?
Did your wife tell me that? I tell you that
told her that there was a contestant on Big Brother
who lives here in town? Mm hmm, yeah, I'll tell
you about that off air.

Speaker 1 (02:15:39):
Nice fun. Well, all right, So the rest of the
picture in general, the Internet overall, is it a weird spot?
Like the high speed Internet is a thing that is
readily available for a lot of people, but by oh

(02:16:00):
stretch everyone, and then there's a whole other probably proportionally
the same amount of people that just have no fucking
Internet and no help of it. Like we're in the
middle of this weird distribution phase and like the two
thousand and one kind of spot. Yeah, like it's it's
a it's a strange time as far as how it

(02:16:21):
goes that what's out there though, Sopranos you know HBO,
they're like ruling scripted television. Like I said, reality TV's
popping over weakest link. Who wants to be a millionaire
of that kind of crap just filling the airwaves. And
then you know, devices, flip phones are really probably you know,
the major cool thing to have at this point. We

(02:16:44):
do have phones in our pockets now hm, which is crazy.
No Internet on them unless you're super special. I don't
think that's a real option for any popular phones. The
iPod and all the eye things are announced around this time,
they're still not in your hands yet them. But so
media situation though, so modern TV, like just the modern

(02:17:05):
TV era the thing that we will come to think
of as like the era at some point we're right
at the work. This is the final death rattle that
we're in. Yeah, Like movies are basically like having to
get bigger to compete, Like think about like Lord of
the Rings and Matrix kind of like at this time,
like two thousand and one, they've kind of reinvented are

(02:17:27):
in the middle of reinventing, like how long the attention
span can be for something like We're gonna do trilogies
and the third movie is gonna be the highest grossing
film of all time and that kind of crap. Yeah,
we're starting all those big fucking tent pole events in
ways that heretofore are unseen. I mean, not that numbers
didn't have literally bigger numbers than the other in different areas,

(02:17:50):
but it wasn't like based off franchises like this. I
don't think mm hmm, Like the Matrix just comes out
of know, we're inventing universe, and then by the end
of the third movie, half the fucking plan it has
to go see it. I guess that's that's unique.

Speaker 2 (02:18:02):
I think, dude. I remember when The Matrix Reloaded came out, hm,
with all the superfluous shots of Neo flying around like
the Internet, and all the people I knew were talking
about how this was basically Warner Brothers or the Wachowski's
selling the idea of Keanu Reeves as Superman.

Speaker 1 (02:18:26):
Oh yeah, and then yeah, yeah, and I was like,
I don't know, Yeah, it's all right, but it wouldn't
have been my favorite casting. He'd have been fine. So
some other notable points though, like distribution gets weird now
DVR is a thing, so that, you know, plus seven
as a whole rating system has to be considered. By

(02:18:47):
the way, rating systems started a little while back, by
the sixties and seventies, proper like networks like CWWB all that,
like stuff that's specifically kind of teen oriented designed. Again,
we're just righting that, by the way.

Speaker 2 (02:19:03):
They switched to the Nielsen ratings system the year after
Star Trek was canceled, So nineteen seventy.

Speaker 1 (02:19:09):
Seventy yeah, and that was the big regret of oh
my god, how do we.

Speaker 2 (02:19:12):
Only know yeah yeah, because based on the Nielsen ratings
they were killing it. Yeah, but not on the ones
that they knew.

Speaker 1 (02:19:22):
Yeah. And by then, oh well, DVD and VHS like
you remember that war where half of the Blockbuster was
filled with one half the other.

Speaker 2 (02:19:34):
It wasn't a war. VHS was dying. There was nowhere
to go. It was just there was not a fight.

Speaker 1 (02:19:43):
The next sentence time, here's my notes for this little section.
It says DVD slash VHS at war. The next sentence
VHS losing heavily by now and on its way out.

Speaker 2 (02:19:53):
Yeah, like a year. It was like a year. Man.
I was there. It was like, hey, we got d
you need the VHS? Cool? Uh, why are we doing?
Why are we doing DVDs? Those are expensive? And then
like by the next year is like VHS's were like
being sold for three ninety nine at all the all

(02:20:13):
the blockbusters, and.

Speaker 1 (02:20:15):
It really was. Yeah, it was precious for a second
and like to pristine for for just a half a second.
And then I turned around and it was basically people
shaking vhs is off their off their boots, like dog shit,
why do you still have this trash around?

Speaker 2 (02:20:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:20:33):
Jesus Christ. But they were still buying several months ago.

Speaker 2 (02:20:37):
But they were still buying the full screen DVDs because
they still didn't understand what the fuck that Mett. Of course, no,
I want the full screen at the wide screen where
they cut off the top and bottom. You sad summer child.

Speaker 1 (02:20:48):
Yeah, making fun of washing with bars? Why you watching
all this stuff with these stupid bars? Yeah, that was
a heavy argument. Here's a fun one. Get a Napster
shut down around that time. Yeah, but the Napster shuts
down two thousand and one, And the fun part is
that changed, like the distribution by that point had been

(02:21:09):
changed irrevocably.

Speaker 2 (02:21:10):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:21:11):
Piracy, Like it was I love that. Like Napster going
down was just it was the rallying cry. It was
like the it was like the thing the pirates needed
to know, to to hear, to just know that the
battle was truly happening. Yeah, it was over.

Speaker 2 (02:21:28):
The phrase glorious recompense comes to mind.

Speaker 1 (02:21:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a good time. I also.

Speaker 2 (02:21:36):
O'Brien right of course, playing right, said Fred Yeah, and
Horatio Sands playing a jelly donut laden Rico Swafe, Oh yeah,
of course you're you're Rico Swamp. What happened many Dona.

Speaker 1 (02:22:02):
That was one of the eras where I barely tapped
into any of those sketches.

Speaker 2 (02:22:07):
Yeah, I mean that was a great sketch though. It
was like Napster, the Napster hearings. Yeah, and it's just
like this parade they're finally down to like the you know,
C List one hit Wonders, and it's like Tracy Morgan
just walking around on.

Speaker 1 (02:22:20):
Work lovely.

Speaker 2 (02:22:29):
Lovely.

Speaker 1 (02:22:30):
Yeah, I'm gonna wrap up Smallville just with one note
on it. I mean you already, you already covered how
it hits you basically, uh ran for ten fucking seasons.
So yeah, I wrote we still speak its name and
hallow tones. It did. It did a very important thing
on top of a lot of the stuff you've named.

(02:22:51):
It wrote the playbook for how Vancouver was gonna work.

Speaker 2 (02:22:54):
M m.

Speaker 1 (02:22:55):
That is about to be huge because that's going to
start the era Verse just a couple years later.

Speaker 2 (02:23:00):
But twenty twelve.

Speaker 1 (02:23:02):
Yeah, it we don't really know what that's useful for yet.
And and you know, honestly, the air Verse when we
get started, they don't really know what it's about to
do either. And uh, I like it for history's sake
that it just was as big as it was because
nothing like it will I think, will ever happen again.

Speaker 2 (02:23:19):
I don't know, probably not like that.

Speaker 1 (02:23:21):
No, not in that capacity I think you'll have I
don't even know if a streaming network will go so
far as to make anything like that happen.

Speaker 2 (02:23:30):
Yeah, it might be over.

Speaker 1 (02:23:31):
Yeah, Like I don't think you'll ever have resources in
one spot dedicated that fully to one calls like that
and for it to happen to have been dc extraordinary
for our luck. Yeah, you know, for better or worse,
because there are moments in that whole area that are
definitely for worse. But sometimes it just do in fact
be like that. The next thing is we bounce back

(02:23:52):
to the big screen though, so kind of in the middle.
So that was like two thousand and one to twenty eleven, right,
m kind in the middle there, Brandon Wrath, we had
Superman Returns two thousand and six. Uh, basic backdrop is
we're fucking done. We're so far into the Iraq War
that we're tired of it. Bush's approvals just all over

(02:24:13):
the place. We're like most of pop culture has to
do with a lot of grity, your turns, you're gritty
stuff right now, Like Batman begins all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:24:22):
So like even Star Trek did a terrorism mark Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:26):
Yeah. Some basic markers though, is like blackberries and slider.
You know, slider based phones are gonna be the big things. Uh,
Cars Pisar that was owning every piece of media like
that that era starts now Facebook opens to the public
around that time. Crazy that that only starts and then
YouTube launched in two thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (02:24:46):
By the way, yeah, twenty four is still fucking on.

Speaker 1 (02:24:49):
Yeah, yeah, the Wei, xbox and ps are are starting
to really sell, like these are just entering those eras
of baser consoles. But oh and then a funny one,
Pluto lost its planetary status around this time. All right,
sounds right, Rip Pluto, The Office, Gray's Anatomy start their

(02:25:10):
reign of terror over.

Speaker 2 (02:25:13):
The reign of terror over millennial.

Speaker 1 (02:25:15):
Memories for I mean, seriously, how much of your life
do you remember? It's almost like a backdrop to the
Office or Gray's Anatomy are both.

Speaker 2 (02:25:23):
Yeah, there was a there was a dark time where
everyone I knew was saying that's what she said, and
I had not even watch The Office.

Speaker 1 (02:25:30):
Oh god, I know. Yeah, I just got reminded the
day of the Halloween episode. I'd forgotten that was a
huge touchdown for forever. I mean used to talk about
that thing as like on a weekly basis in nerd culture.
No MCU yet, m hmm. But X Men are doing
the last stand, so major kind of franchises are a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:25:51):
Yeah, X Men hit in two thousand, Spider Man two
thousand and one, and Marvel tried several little things like Daredevil,
like fantastic for Blade Blade Yeah, well Blade actually pre
days X Men. Yeah yeah, Blade Blade did get his
cock in there first.

Speaker 1 (02:26:07):
Lay they just did. Blade did get right up in there.

Speaker 2 (02:26:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:26:11):
So media situation not really much changing. DVDA had won
by now, we're just right in the golden age of piracy.
Not that I would know anything about that, of course,
unless the statues have not run out.

Speaker 2 (02:26:23):
No, I don't know what a pirate is.

Speaker 1 (02:26:25):
Of course, even the reference evades me. But yeah, but
at this point, the average person has a cell phone
in their pocket, but there's no Internet on it. And
then just in the context of the area, a lot
of what we already talked about movie was literally just
a continuation Rauth just going straight into the role. It
was advertised as such. Rauth was basically an unknown back

(02:26:49):
to the same trend, right You just you don't grab
known persons for Superman. It's like Cavil's the closest I
think anyone that we've gotten. But yeah, it was heavily
heavily advertised is just we're gonna go down nostalgia road, right,
And it was heavily advertised in general, huge marketing budget.

Speaker 2 (02:27:08):
There's the other thing though, when Ralph was when that
movie came out, the in the geek community and even
outside of the geek community, I had people coming up
to me because they knew I was in the know,
or going like why are they doing this? Why aren't
they just why didn't they just make Tom Welling Superman?
Like they're like, why isn't the guy from Smallville just
being Superman? He's not even in school anymore.

Speaker 1 (02:27:28):
I fucking no, dude, don't the point?

Speaker 2 (02:27:30):
All right?

Speaker 1 (02:27:30):
So something outide? I'll just read a note about the
fandom here. I wrote there aren't really any arguments about
my Superman at this stage, not the verbiage as we
use it, but like fandom isn't really putting it in
those terms. But there are factions starting to form and
confusion that I hadn't thought about that. But you're right,

(02:27:50):
like confusion is starting to be a thing because people
are starting to be exposed to so many different areas.
Vacuums aren't a thing as much as they used to be.
You're exposed to an enough to be confused, I think.
But yeah, like comic cons fan communities, all parts of
just daily life now that we know what those are.
But like the nerd label, you know, just god forbid

(02:28:12):
that term. It's still derisive in the public eye. But
that you know, well established culture at this point and
well established money maker by the fucking culture at this point.

Speaker 2 (02:28:20):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (02:28:23):
As far as going into the movie goes, probably Kevin
Spacey and it's probably gonna be the biggest name attached
at the time.

Speaker 2 (02:28:30):
When you say yeah, probably Brian Singer's name was pretty big.

Speaker 1 (02:28:35):
I think he's I think he's a real close second,
especially if you know anything about the word director and
you actually know it. I mean, if you're aware of
the word variety as a magazine, you probably think Ryan
Singer is actually more important than Kevin Spacey.

Speaker 2 (02:28:50):
I think, yeah, Brian Singer is one of the directors
that made people start paying attention to directors in movies
like Yeah, usual Suspects, fucking app pupil, like X Men.
He had just done X Men and X two. His
name was bigger than Kevin Spacey's at the time.

Speaker 1 (02:29:07):
I think that's probably fair. That's probably as far as
the results three ninety one worldwide, it didn't. I mean,
that's not the worst, but it had probably in the
area of a two hundred budget overall, and that's going
to be bloated and include a bunch of scripts it
shouldn't and all that kind of crap, But like it's

(02:29:27):
still roughly going to be in the area of you know,
c C plus recouping. Yeah, didn't blow up, Cells, didn't
reboot the franchise.

Speaker 2 (02:29:37):
They were still planning on doing a sequel for a minute.

Speaker 1 (02:29:40):
They were, but it just kind of petered out, like
it did. Okay, it did okay for one movie, but
it nothing became of it, and I think it effectively
buried along with the fact that by this point I
think Reeve was when did Reeve die?

Speaker 2 (02:29:56):
Oh gosh, two thousand and.

Speaker 1 (02:29:58):
Five, I want to say it was right around here though, right.

Speaker 2 (02:30:01):
Yeah, the last thing he did was Virgil Swan on Smallville. Yeah,
I think in season two and then he died, Yeah,
two thousand and four, October tenth.

Speaker 1 (02:30:09):
Last thing he did at all just rolled off set
into a grave.

Speaker 2 (02:30:13):
Jesus Christ, as you don't have to put it like.

Speaker 1 (02:30:17):
What it sounded like you were saying. For a second,
I got lost mid sentence. The rest of the sentence
really did make that clear. I want to be very
sure that was on me. That was definitely on me.

Speaker 2 (02:30:31):
The last thing he did was as he he had
just he was decomposing. They had a stick holding his
hand up like a fucking puppet. Yeah, and he was
pointing at the map, going there, Clark, Yeah there, that's
where Krypton was. Yeah, let me die, w B see
you in the flesh, damn it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:30:50):
The Virgil thing actually was just a reanimated corpse.

Speaker 2 (02:30:54):
He was alive, damn it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:57):
He was.

Speaker 2 (02:30:59):
Yeah, he was. He was pretty proud, apparently of Smallville.
He liked Smallville. He wanted to do that, He asked
to do that.

Speaker 1 (02:31:06):
That I do remember that story.

Speaker 2 (02:31:07):
He was.

Speaker 1 (02:31:08):
He liked that version of Clark a lot. He liked
the tone of it, he liked the spirit of it.
But again, he was a great back to his fucking
seventy eight things. This is that was seventy eight. This
is two thousand and five we're talking about. Yeah, he
represented the brand well for the rest of his fucking life.

(02:31:29):
It was a nice touch. But yeah, the movie did
okay at best.

Speaker 2 (02:31:33):
He watched that documentary and here's a little bit of
scandal girl.

Speaker 1 (02:31:37):
Oh there were there were a few. All right, we're
getting into the last bit of the user feedback. Now,
this one's on. This one's on Returns, which did surprise
me a little bit, but not timing wise, shouldn't so.
I saw Superman Returns with my family at a drive
in movie theater when I was seven years old. That
sounds fucking awesome. Actually, I fell in love with that

(02:31:58):
film immediately, and it became quite formative in how I
viewed Superman mythology, particularly the Daily Planet. I apologize deeply
for our review. If you enjoyed the movie.

Speaker 2 (02:32:10):
I didn't like Lois, but the rest of it was fine.

Speaker 1 (02:32:12):
You know, we we were not kind of parts of
that movie. So what was the world up to? I
was in elementary school and Superman Returns came out, so
I had a quite different perspective on the world then.
But I can at least tell you I prefer the
music of that era to that of today. It's also fair.

Speaker 2 (02:32:29):
Well, I don't know, I don't know, you're you're a
big zimmer guy.

Speaker 1 (02:32:32):
Well, I think this person just meant in general the
music that was happening. I don't know, mid Aunss. I've
got a few things though, deeply a fan of but
good argument for it. How many if we're counting all mediums,
it would be hard to count how many Supermen I've
met at this point in my life. If we're just
counting live action Superman, then eleven. Oh cool, George, David Patrick, Chris,

(02:32:56):
John Haymes, Jared Gerard, Dean, Tom Brandon, Henry Taylor, and David.
My gold standard is top C. Someone finally gave me
a list, Thank you. My gold standard is Tom, who
had tremendous chemistry with Kristin Crook and brought so much depth,
emotion and romance to the character of kellel on the
Coming of age journey on which Smallville took us. He
he really was?

Speaker 2 (02:33:17):
He was, Oh yeah, yeah, Tom was. Tom and Michael
were the driving forces of that show. And you know, I,
when I was a teenager, I had lots of little
issues with the show and what they were doing. And
you know, I that version of that, that version of Dave,
you know, didn't understand shit the way I understand it now.

(02:33:41):
So I had issues with certain castings. I didn't understand
why they were doing you know, fucking Smallville and not
you know, you know, why would they not do super
Boy if they were going to go back that far
like I had, But Tom Welling and Michael Rosenbaum won
me over and the show was just pretty good.

Speaker 1 (02:33:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:34:00):
I mean it had like the Creature of the Week
kind of thing, freak of the week.

Speaker 1 (02:34:03):
They did that well, it's a format.

Speaker 2 (02:34:05):
They did it well. They did it well. You know,
they had Buffy trailing that uh or blazing that trail
before them, I should say yeah. But also an Ata
Tool was just yeah, she was.

Speaker 1 (02:34:24):
She was formative for many as well. So if you
could pass on the one note comment says dear James
and Peter via David and Jason, I want to see
a romance between Clark Kent and Lana Ling, please Klona
forever and always. Lorenzo Valdez, Hey.

Speaker 2 (02:34:40):
Oh I know you yea uh yeah, I I I
struggle with that, man. I struggle with that because you know,
I am a I am a Klana fan. I always
like I always like close though too. So man, it's tough.
It's tough. It's like you want a doctor whose situation

(02:35:02):
where they yeah, let's do Superman Red and Superman Blue.
One of them gets with Laa and one of them
gets with lowis. You know, I don't know. I want
I want both to be true.

Speaker 1 (02:35:12):
Yeah, I understand.

Speaker 2 (02:35:13):
Let's write that alternate universe Superman where he married Lata.

Speaker 1 (02:35:19):
Yeah, I'll It'll be a long time before I want
anyone but Rachel Bronahan bros Nan to be like mm hmm.
She needs to soak up all the screen for a
very long time.

Speaker 2 (02:35:32):
Yeah, of course. Look, I couldn't draw the thing if
we did, if we did write it, because I would
draw my Kent and Lana like a net o'tool and
that gets a little weird.

Speaker 1 (02:35:43):
Yeah, that would be a problem. We're gonna send these
pages to the therapist, i mean editor real quick.

Speaker 2 (02:35:52):
And also for some reason, Perry White.

Speaker 1 (02:35:55):
Yeah all right, I'll I'll skip ahead, just only slightly
to where did we leave there? That was two thousand
and six, with kind of like a cybbar of twenty eleven, right,
because some returns or small boat would have be ended there.
But yeah, so again we're in the area bouncing back

(02:36:15):
and forth. But that gets us, of course to man
of Steel. Okay, our boy, Henry uh In twenty thirteen,
we're out of the recession. We're out of not eleven
all that crap, Haldin Hank. Yeah, them's we're like the
Obama era marriage equality legislation was was really in the

(02:36:39):
cooker around that time, like Boston Marathon kind of timing.
Remember just a second ago when like Facebook was open
to the public. Yeah, like so social networks are just
yeah yeah, like Instagram hit one hundred million users this year,
you know, Modern Family, thirty Rock, We're we're just down

(02:37:01):
the street as far as like what was popular, but
it's hilarious, like how long ago that really was? Like
breaking bad music. Streaming services services like only got regularized
around this time, Like Spotify was brand spanking new to
the US. Yeah, and any other service really like it
it really new. Yeah, iPhones are here, like we're right

(02:37:23):
in there. But all right, so one important change two
thousand and six. We're basically in La la land as
far as that goes now. Twenty thirteen, Marvel is in charge. Yeah,
they have gone from dabbling to firmly, firmly holding all
the cars.

Speaker 2 (02:37:39):
Man still comes out the year after the Avengers.

Speaker 1 (02:37:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a big bit. So one
quick bit about the media situation. Netflix dominates, Cord cutting
has taken over that's another big change.

Speaker 2 (02:37:51):
Hadn't been long.

Speaker 1 (02:37:52):
A lot of stuff changed. Amazon, Hulu, they're trying to
catch up as far as like products producing their own
content and all that stuff. Like Netflix really came in
and nailed the format that a lot of people are
going to use very quickly. Powercy is still strong, but
distribution kind of normalized everything. It became easier to buy

(02:38:13):
access than it was to steal it. Cost benefits finally
actually caught in and market caught up. As my opinion
on it, box office still sells still matters. That's important
because it's the last time. I'll say that, like twenty
thirteen when this Superman hit, is the last time that

(02:38:34):
that was really going to hit the same exact way.

Speaker 2 (02:38:37):
Yeah, in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (02:38:38):
Yeah, different era begins. Some things will mimic the other ones,
and some things will never change, but it will have
always been changed pretty revolicably. Again, all right, so just
the context of Superman just down the street with Superman returns.
But in my opinion, that was a distant fucking memory

(02:38:58):
about twenty thirteen. I barely remember the thing existed by
the time I was ready to go see this movie.

Speaker 2 (02:39:04):
A distant fucking memory by the time it hit home video.

Speaker 1 (02:39:07):
Yeah, yeah, not even something that was on my mind.
I genuinely don't think much was on my mind. And
except that I liked Superman.

Speaker 2 (02:39:17):
No, you know the way you're contextualizing it though, Like
I had forgotten that Obama was in office. Yeah, I
you know, and I was as you were talking about that,
I was like, yeah, you're right, how can Avengers came
out the year before, like Zach and DC just really
missed the mark on the kind of Superman, on the

(02:39:38):
tone of their that people were looking for.

Speaker 1 (02:39:42):
Well, so there's even a term. I forget what the
term is. There's some term in pop music that refers
to like twenty tens pop. It's not a millennial poppers,
it's not something that's generational, but there's a there's a
theory about just charted pop music in the twenty tens
that that shit was optimistic as hell, and you know,

(02:40:04):
fast forward ten years, not quite the same. Aught's still
not quite the same, But somewhere in the twenty tens
it was all, you know, a couple of really popular
roots songs that kind of thing. Yeah, they were a
pretty good like flag banner kind of saw. I can't
remember the name of that damn song. And it was.

Speaker 2 (02:40:21):
I was not listening to music in twenty not new
music in the twenty tens.

Speaker 1 (02:40:25):
That's killing me.

Speaker 2 (02:40:26):
Until maybe twenty fifteen or sixteen.

Speaker 1 (02:40:29):
I was, but it was just all in the indie
side or going back for albums of course, but it
was just all in the indies. I'm deeply in my
hipster era of music right that second.

Speaker 2 (02:40:39):
And you listen to Mumford and Sons. God, no, hey, look,
people like love them together, but I don't think it's fair.
I was really into Avitt Brothers. I still think it's
a good They're a good band. I don't like Mumffin
Sons very.

Speaker 1 (02:40:56):
Much, but just a whole job like I don't have
any little space.

Speaker 2 (02:40:58):
For Yeah, I'm down for that. Uh, but yeah. It
was interesting. It's interesting to think about because like DC
from the Warrel Brothers perspective, and of course, like following
the success of the Nolan trilogy, we're of course gonna
want to be like, well, Christopher Nolan's got to do
Superman and he's like, eh, I'm not gonna direct that,

(02:41:19):
but here's my guys out. Well.

Speaker 1 (02:41:21):
One of my notes here was Nolan just had a
huge Batman arc that reset the bar for everyone mmmm,
which he I think that was important. But this was
also the ear I remember where we all like the
joke was like, yeah, video and animation, DC got it,
but like on screen, fucking marvels all over it. Yeah,
that's that's where it's at.

Speaker 2 (02:41:42):
Yeah, and that is a narrative that continued to permeate
because people don't know how to talk about this shit.

Speaker 1 (02:41:49):
Yeah, I mean I get that it was a it
has merit as like a decent start for a discussion,
but there's more to it, of course. Yeah, And like
Nolan had just come in though, and and another big
start for the discussion was like, oh yeah, DC's gritty
and you know, Marvel's happier, Like yeah, you're just looking
at all the context and what really hit. Yeah, if
you're just watching fucking Heath Ledger, yeah, I bet it

(02:42:11):
looks like.

Speaker 2 (02:42:11):
That, unless you know you're looking at fucking Winter Soldier
or some shit like oh suddenly it changes.

Speaker 1 (02:42:16):
But yeah, but you're not good because you're not remembering
it against that. You're remembering it against Twuma right right.

Speaker 2 (02:42:24):
It's so annoying because like I always got so tired
of that argument. We're like, oh, Marvel's like happier in jokeier.
I'm like, not, they're not. They're not as they're not
as formulaic as you're saying they are. They're not like
as all in sync as you say they are. I
promise you they're not. But d C was trying to
do that work. Brothers was like, oh, yeah, well that's

(02:42:45):
what's selling. Let's do a Man of Steel.

Speaker 1 (02:42:47):
Yeah, they played with things as much as else, but
they did have reliable beats, like reliable comedy beats and
that like stuff like that that wasn't as reliable in DC. Like, yeah,
there were definitely category differences.

Speaker 2 (02:43:00):
And they tried to do a little funnier with Green Lantern,
and I think like they just went like, oh, yeah,
that doesn't work. I'm like, no, No, it's the bad
editing that doesn't work. Yeah, it's the bad writing and
the bad editing that has the problem. That's not the
whatever y'all.

Speaker 1 (02:43:14):
We've reviewed the actual like the original script, and yeah,
our humble determination was that had you stuck to that
original script, I think he really would have done Okay, Yeah,
that bout itself is not bad at all, oh the
rest of that universe though, in general, just the rest
of the context. Yeah, the trailers for the movie were
showing a lot of scope, right, lots of action, big deal.

(02:43:37):
Snyder was known for three hundred Watchmen, big, big, big
cinematic striking thing. I mean, people weren't quite making fun
of the slow motion thing being a trope of his yet,
but it was coming. Everyone knew that.

Speaker 2 (02:43:50):
I mean, he definitely had his haters from Watchman in
three hundred.

Speaker 1 (02:43:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean he has a style
that I love his style, but it is it's a
choice he's making. And that's what happens when you make
a style choices, it's gonna people just fucking don't like it.
But yeah, uh, the the the MC was in there,
fucking Golden era man.

Speaker 2 (02:44:12):
Uh and because the Avengers and Iron Man made a
billion dollars, suddenly every fucking thing has to make a
billion dollars according to everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:44:19):
Yeah, and then Dark Knight came in and did some
real damage itself. Uh huh, so it everyone's thinking this
was just cash cows just ready to be printed. But importantly,
you know, we've got a gap here where like no
Superman and you know this is the the big guys
not at the party, so you throw one in there.
It's a polarizing film.

Speaker 2 (02:44:40):
Oh and by the.

Speaker 1 (02:44:41):
Way, one last piece of the context is like uh
air Verse had just begun.

Speaker 2 (02:44:46):
The year before, also dark and greedy.

Speaker 1 (02:44:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's from starts very much so very much
changes and after a while it just kind of has.
It depends on which show you're watching, right, but again,
reliable beat in every corner of that. But but man,
it still hits in. It hits with six hundred and
sixty eight million dollars I put in parentheses. Let's just
go with that. Again, the figures are not the most

(02:45:11):
important part of what I'm talking about. Hits with roughly
that that's a good fucking showing, like like it's it
could be better, but it's not a bad It's not
a bad showing for a movie. I mean, let's say
they put three hundred million in that you doubled it.
It's not it's not bad. They're comparing it to a billion.
We're already in the area where like again, like expectations,

(02:45:35):
you know, me and you we had a lot of
expectations going into twenty thirteen, but like, well, like I said,
mine were very nebulous, and I kind of knew the character,
and then I certainly wasn't into following it the way
we do now.

Speaker 2 (02:45:47):
Right. No, back of the time, I was like, oh, yeah,
Green Lenn that's the thing. I need to watch that.
And then I didn't watch it, and I was like, oh, yeah,
that Green Leanner, and I need to watch that. They've
already planned sequels. Oh yeah, wait they're they're not doing
that now.

Speaker 1 (02:45:59):
Yeah, just catching up to it like everybody else. Yeah,
And but I mean, you know, this kind of information
was more really available. The Internet's obviously gonna have most
of this just ready to grab, but we weren't, uh
you know, you had to go out and grab it.

Speaker 2 (02:46:15):
Yeah. I wasn't paying attention like that back then.

Speaker 1 (02:46:17):
Even close, not even close. But we say, how the
movie did, we say the universe did. And it's it's
one of the major tentpoles to get to, like and
I'll it's gonna quickly run through Hackland, but like, yeah,
Hackland comes in, or Heckland sorry comes in twenty twenty one,
like he goes in post COVID, the poor fucker, Like

(02:46:37):
this is only a few years ago, like we know
at this point, like MCU's gone dwindling just a little
bit more than it used to. Like at eight, Hecklan's
not Henry, but you know, this is twenty twenty one,
that was twenty thirteen. At this point, he's something he did.

Speaker 2 (02:46:56):
I mean, he was in Supergirl for the years as
guests just are, and he was in Crisis on Infinite Heard.

Speaker 1 (02:47:01):
So yeah, yeah, true, true. But I mean like we
kept we kept starving. I mean, I'm remember this part
of the context for me was like we just kept
starving for a Superman two film and then yeah that
was that was BBS. But then we were starving for
Justice Leap film and then yeah we got Justice Leap,
but it wasn't the one we wanted, right, We kept
fucking starving for things so much that I never quite

(02:47:22):
it was just there was no I don't know, it
never quite quenched the thirst. And then Hecklan comes into
that universe, and for a lot of people he did.

Speaker 2 (02:47:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:47:32):
He comes into an area too where like piracy is
effectively dead unless you're using that as your primary source.
But you're making choices through your life at this point,
most mostly streaming one. You're you can go grab this
at any given point. It's it's so it's not about
you know, distributions. Well into the democratized era, all that's over.
It's just a matter of like who wanted what? Heckling

(02:47:52):
filled a lot of gaps in he was he was
just a nice guy with a family. Like that was
all a much different context to what we're doing over
in the Snyder verse, like to the point where we
are well into factions as well. And on top of that,
like the era versus ending Snyder's Like as we get
into this, like the Snyder era has taken some major hits,

(02:48:15):
there's a lot of speculation about its future. Like so
you know, like we're in twenty twenty, like me and
you are over here discussing this in twenty twenty one
as well.

Speaker 2 (02:48:23):
Yeah, and by that time, it was you know, it
had properly moved over to amatoverse It's twenty seventeen, and
now there's this like resurgence of like Zack Styder's Justice League,
and they cut that shit off of the dick real quick.

Speaker 1 (02:48:37):
Yeah, kicked it right in the cult de set.

Speaker 2 (02:48:41):
This happened because of COVID. We're not making anything else
with Zack Snyder.

Speaker 1 (02:48:45):
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean a weird time, but it
we felt deprived of Superman, like we hadn't seen anything
like Man of Steel for fucking forever, even if you
were in fel deprived. I definitely using the oial be
here for sure. I mean, yeah, the part of me
gets it. Like part of me was happy with the

(02:49:07):
Justice League stuff. I really did like it, But there
was another party that you just thought, come on, man,
I like we were following it very closely now, and
the amount of people like us was increasing, Like you know,
not just people who would listen to Eyes, but like
other people. You're following these news outlets a lot more.
It's on your phone all the time. Now you can
keep up with these things. We had expectations about when

(02:49:27):
I'm going to see things. I know the future as well,
to some extent, way more than I used to, especially
given the history we just did. Hear right, Like, I'm
feeling a little bit hopeless about Cavil's Superman. When I
even fucking meet Hecklan's in twenty twenty one, you don't
really know what it looks like at all. If there's
going to be anything you remember, like the Twitter post

(02:49:50):
or whatever the fuck it was where he like plays
the music and like raises the action figure in and
out of the bottom of the screen.

Speaker 2 (02:49:56):
Hm.

Speaker 1 (02:49:57):
I remember Cavil doing that one.

Speaker 2 (02:49:58):
No, Cavil doing that. Yeah, No, not really kind of
maybe it was.

Speaker 1 (02:50:02):
It was an odd moment. He's just like raising the
Superman figure in in and out of the bottom of
the camera frame.

Speaker 2 (02:50:09):
Oh yeah, because everybody kind of took that it means
something and it didn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 (02:50:14):
I don't, Yeah, in retrospect, I don't know if it
actively meant nothing or if he was actually fucking with us,
but it was pointless.

Speaker 2 (02:50:21):
I think he was trying to rally troops.

Speaker 1 (02:50:23):
A lot of it, I do think was him putting
stuff out there and trying to prove there was still
interest in all that. Yeah, But anyway, the point was,
you know, as it stood, Hecklan had a ton of fans,
me and you. I mean, we did our general review
of him, but I didn't meet him until we kind
of until I went and wrapped up the Uh well,

(02:50:43):
I met him when the show premiered. We did the
premiere when it came out.

Speaker 2 (02:50:47):
I mean, he didn't play it too differently than when
he was on Supergirl. It was just the the money was.

Speaker 1 (02:50:53):
The money was there, yeah, when they actually.

Speaker 2 (02:50:55):
Superman was the production value.

Speaker 1 (02:50:57):
And they really did put some in there, which was
funny because that was I mean when I think me
and you were joking about it, then like, Okay, we're
putting more money into this version on the CW now
than we are the actual fucking have old movie version.

Speaker 2 (02:51:10):
Okay, gotta help him. It took him what three seasons
to get a suit that actually looked good on him.

Speaker 1 (02:51:17):
That's fair, one, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (02:51:19):
His suit was always like fucking way bigger than him.

Speaker 1 (02:51:22):
You know. Look like now that you say it, the
answer was you just could have. You should have just
kept him in the shitty little s one mm hmm.
Like with the the green car gag, that one looked fantastic.

Speaker 2 (02:51:34):
Yeah, yeah, that one. The yeah, the fly shir a
little yeah, Yeah, that was absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:51:40):
They They might have put more care into that than
they did the real costume for a second.

Speaker 2 (02:51:44):
Yeah, but I mean the one he had in Supergirl,
you know, it looked cheap, but it looked like it
was his body.

Speaker 1 (02:51:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:51:52):
And then Superman lowis they tried to get so bulky
and ship I think they. I think they got affected
by the Snyder bros. Posting the memes of him next
to Cavil and making fun of him, calling him Timu Superman.

Speaker 1 (02:52:07):
Or yeah he wouldn't ye Bucky enough.

Speaker 2 (02:52:11):
Yeah, So they gave him this like giant fucking suit,
but he looks like a cartoon character, like with a
tiny little neck. And then all of a sudden he's
got like this like gigantic fucking body suit. And I mean,
and I didn't understand it because I'm like, the guy
is ripped. It's really good shade, Like he's.

Speaker 1 (02:52:29):
Not gonna look right when he's swollen. He he's supposed
to look like a soccer player in his prime at best.
I think that's his body shape. I think that's what
it dictates.

Speaker 2 (02:52:38):
I don't know, but unfortunately, I think Tyler got swallowed
up a lot by just people either making fun of
or Snyder people making fun of Aero Verse and making
fun of him. Yeah, and then once Henry disappeared.

Speaker 1 (02:52:51):
Or was disappeared whatever, then.

Speaker 2 (02:52:53):
Everyone just sort of went, eh, whatever, and like Superman,
Lowis has as his fans, this is a good fucking show.
Oh but I think culturally, and you know, it just
gets lost. Yeah, there's too much going on around it,
in front.

Speaker 1 (02:53:09):
Of it, beside it, and nearby. The whole point, I guess,
I guess was to bring us to the idea of like, well,
you know, originally it was going to be like how
do you feel about meeting this new guy? But now
it's more like why do you feel about having met him?
But as you pointed out, there are some trends and
like we do tend to there is actual evidence as

(02:53:32):
we look at it here that we respond to hopeful
Superman in times where how would Paul have put it?
When we find ourselves in times of trouble Superman? He
was supposed to be something about pettit Bee, but yes
that I didn't realize there's actual evidence until we've gone over.

(02:53:54):
But it does seem to wear out and it fits
now because God, people love this fucking guy. Mm hmmm,
we're not having agree time when you look around.

Speaker 2 (02:54:02):
So yeah, it's funny because Superman it is. I hadn't
thought about it until just now, I guess. But Superman
has a lot in common with Star Trek in that way,
like in good times people watch it less and long
for it less. But when things are rough in the
real world. They need that optimism. And for the last

(02:54:25):
several years of Star Trek, a lot of the fan
complaints have been, God, is so gritty and dark and
dour and fuck, like, I thought this was supposed to
be an optimistic future, and you know, and then you've
got seven of nine running around in the fenders rangers
like blowing people away, and you're like, it doesn't feel
too too happy. It's not not hopeful at all. We

(02:54:49):
just watched a lady torture each have a young guy
that you know, grew up in front of her eyes
of Voyager as one of the board children that she
helped raise, you know, Yeah, and like reintroduced to the
guy just in time for them to kill him and
torture him and kill him. And he's like, Jesus God,
what the fuck Star Trek, Picard, why would you do
this to us? Which, by the way, I love the

(02:55:11):
last season of Picard. That was just fantastic. Yeah, but
it still was dark and gritty in a way that like, man,
I love it on My Batman, but I loved it
on DS nine. But that I liked it there, I
don't necessarily need it at all. The other places of
Star Trek, like darker Gritty is a fun place to
visit on Star Trek, I don't want to see it

(02:55:33):
every week. And I feel the same way about Superman.
I love Brave New Metropolis the episode, I don't at
the end of the episode, though, Lois needs to go
back through the fucking portal and get back with the bright, hopeful,
optimistic Superman. Yeah. I think that's I think that's how

(02:55:54):
it is.

Speaker 1 (02:55:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:55:56):
Yeah, I mostly agree with the Damn I'm done with
the Injustice version of Superman. I'm mostly there. I'm not
saying I never want to see him again, but I
also feel like, hey, man, it's kind of like doomsday.

Speaker 1 (02:56:11):
I'm good, take a break.

Speaker 2 (02:56:12):
We'll take a break.

Speaker 1 (02:56:13):
Yeah, it does. I do feel like the secret ingredient
to the entire conversation is someone screaming yes, writers have
feelings too, m H. And pocketbooks sometimes, Yeah, most of
whom are have traditionally been affected by those pocket We've
only had writers rich enough to not be affected by shit,

(02:56:35):
I think in the modern era. I don't know, maybe
we only paid a select few enough to really not
have to worry about stuff well, tax laws and stuff
like that that didn't apply to them. Yeah, that's been
a relatively recent development. That's all I had on you, though.

Speaker 2 (02:56:54):
Uh yeah, I feel like a little afraid of going
deeper into corn Sweat and Henry because I feel like
that's what we've been doing in the last ten years. Sure,
sure it is talking about Henry Cavill and Tyler Hecklin
and the last few years on David Quornswith. But yeah, no,
I don't think I have anything. I can't stress Hi

(02:57:15):
enough enough how much I love Tom Welling and Michael
Rosenbaum in those roles. Though, I feel like I don't
know I said that, but I feel like that kind
of got swept away in the tide of conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:57:27):
Are Yeah, they are not seminole. I mean, it turns
out the turns out that Lex very much was the
imprint of the one we just watched. Mm hmmm, which
is going to be avery outright as far as ears go.

Speaker 2 (02:57:41):
Yep. And I didn't. I wasn't one who hated Jesse
Eisenberg either. I liked what he was doing. Yeah, I
was curious to see where he went. I mean I
knew where he was going even by the end of
Justice League, Zack Snyder's Justice League or either one. Really
like he was still like way closer to Lex than
he was in BBS, Like he was moving toward words that. Yeah,

(02:58:02):
and uh but I think that was like that was
the thing Zach did that, Goyer did that, fucking Aero
Verse did Smallville? Did Smallville? You know for all of
it's uh laurels to rest upon also started that trend
where it's like, we can't get the fucking character we
want because we've got to watch eleven fucking years of
them becoming the character. Well, it's Proto is proto Superman,

(02:58:26):
it was proto Last X, proto Green Lantern. We're not
gonna call Superman. We're gonna call.

Speaker 1 (02:58:31):
It the Blur.

Speaker 2 (02:58:33):
You know, he's not He's not Green Arrow, He's the Hood.
You know, this fucking stupid call him something. It's just like, ah, yeah,
the newspapers start calling him the Blur. Yeah, it's like, yeah,
I call him a moist.

Speaker 1 (02:58:51):
Guy, quickie lad.

Speaker 2 (02:58:54):
That was one of my favorite things in the era,
versus like Cisco just being like a comic book nerd
who decides to start naming these people.

Speaker 1 (02:59:01):
That truly, as a writing device was a Stroker brilliance.

Speaker 2 (02:59:07):
Yeah, and Iris is a journalist. So whatever Cisco is
calling them, it's.

Speaker 1 (02:59:10):
Just just go right in. It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:59:13):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (02:59:16):
I mean there are of us. It truly was important. Yeah,
well it's I mean like that we're we're in there
right now where like a lot of the people are
going to start to be in charge. We're starting to
see what like a BTAS fan will have done with
their lives, yeah, or a small Villa fan in this case,
Like we're getting to that age right now, which can't
be bad. I mean, I really genuinely feel like I'm

(02:59:38):
seeing the side effects of that and comics even though
you know, four or five years ago when I was
reading them weekly, I felt like there were a lot
of BTAS fans in there.

Speaker 2 (02:59:48):
Uh huh yep. So what was the conclusion we were
trying to come.

Speaker 1 (02:59:52):
To, Oh, we didn't have one?

Speaker 2 (02:59:53):
Oh okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:59:54):
I think if there is any it's just going to
be that there really is some truth to the fact that,
like like you said, like Superman, will, we seem to
discard the idea of that when we're doing well, that
we that we need one, and then we we do
seem to cling to versions like this like gun if
anything nailed the timing and the execution on maximizing kindness

(03:00:20):
that like with that logo at a time where people
are just kind of a little bit confused and anxious
and scared, Like it turns out like that. That sounds
like something that would just be like, yeah, just too neat,
you know, too cute too to be real. But I
don't know, sounds right from what I just read.

Speaker 2 (03:00:39):
Yeah, I'm very curious to see where they go with
Chorns as well, where I'm like, okay, well, how much
how much worse is it gonna get in real life?

Speaker 1 (03:00:48):
Yeah, it does make me wonder if we do a
you know, a version of this with Batman or something
like that, it would be you know it, he would
have a different kind of story, Like his version wouldn't
be so much like, oh, we need hopeful version when
we're scared. His version was like the version of Batman
you would need right now in twenty twenty five, would
probably be roughly what James Gunn was describing. Scary motherfucker.

(03:01:11):
He needs to be the embodiment of all the confusion
and anger, right.

Speaker 2 (03:01:15):
Yeah, y' yeah, that's pretty good. I like that. Meanwhile,
next Superman film, he just needs to come out singing
along to the theme It's cool to be good. Please
be nice, you stupid mother fucker sty whoops, I mean
should be kind, not die.

Speaker 1 (03:01:39):
I would like it if he went on campaigns to
do like simple, simple, just simple things like please wear helmets.
I'm tired of picking you up. I just want to
go on a vacation. Oh you crack like fucking eggs.
You all have helmets. If you just fucking wear I

(03:02:00):
could take close to a nice da God damn it.
Oh man, what shall we hop out of here? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:02:09):
I think I'm good. I'm also starving, so that's fair.
I've started to lose feeling in my fingers.

Speaker 1 (03:02:16):
It's a different day than when we started recording.

Speaker 2 (03:02:18):
It is.

Speaker 1 (03:02:19):
I warned you was going to do this. This is
us wrapping up on time in my head in a way.

Speaker 2 (03:02:26):
Lies. No, Uh yeah you did say in a way,
so that that clears you. Yeah, all right, thank you
guys for listening. I know, uh, I though several of
you are going to really be excited about this long
ass episode. Uh some of you really like those. Uh.
I enjoyed the rest.

Speaker 1 (03:02:47):
We'll see you next time. But you know there's a
shorter news one.

Speaker 2 (03:02:52):
Most of my most of the stuff I enjoy gets canceled,
So you know, there you go. You know, I makes
me feel a certain kind of way when I'm like,
oh I this I just created and no one else
will like this day dumb dumb dumb dum dumb dumb.
All right, thank you guys for listening until next time.
Uh almost did the star trek Joe Luntrue thing m

(03:03:15):
m outro.

Speaker 1 (03:03:19):
You were holding it together with the words actually coming
out of your mouth so far because you were just
dead until next time.

Speaker 2 (03:03:24):
Yeah, well, I just it was like coming like all the.

Speaker 1 (03:03:27):
Internal train wreck was Yeah, you were you were catching that.

Speaker 2 (03:03:30):
I see it was loaded like a pez dispenser. I
was just lifting up the neck like joelun True lived
long and prosper.

Speaker 1 (03:03:37):
Looky what I was about to do?

Speaker 2 (03:03:39):
All right, keep some DC on your screen, hi,

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