July 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Join Ed Watters on the Dead America Podcast for an empowering conversation with Bob Wischer, relationship engineer and founder of the Men Becoming Better Men group. In this episode, Bob shares his personal journey from a difficult first marriage to building a transformative coaching program dedicated to helping men strengthen relationships, build trust, and realign personal values with professional ambition.
Discover actionable insights on becoming a better man in today's evolving social landscape. Bob and Ed discuss traditional vs. modern roles of men in relationships, the importance of emotional intelligence, and how communication shapes connection. Explore the impact of unresolved past traumas and how healing can create the foundation for personal growth and stronger partnerships.
This episode is packed with practical advice on creating fulfilling relationships, maintaining shared interests, and thriving in both personal and business arenas—without compromising what truly matters. If you’re navigating your own journey or supporting the men in your life, Bob’s holistic approach to self-development and relational success is a must-hear.
00:00 Introduction: The Importance of Slowing Down
00:54 Meet Bob Wischer: The Relationship Engineer
02:24 Defining Manhood: Beyond the Biological
04:10 The Role of Men in Modern Relationships
09:08 Communication and Conflict Resolution
12:41 The Journey to Self-Improvement
27:22 The Importance of Shared Experiences
34:42 Bob's Coaching Philosophy and Program
39:49 Conclusion and Contact Information
Links
https://www.menbecomingbettermen.com
https://www.instagram.com/therelationshipengineer
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When you're taking in information,whether it's verbal or written, slow down.
Listen to the words, or hear the words,or read the words, and, um, listen for
understanding of, of what the person'ssaying or what the text is saying.
And then, you know,take action from there.
But.
(00:54):
Today, we are speaking with Bob Wischer.
He is the relationship engineerand he developed a coaching
program, a group, called Men's,Men Becoming Better Men Group.
Bob, could you please introduceyourself and let people know a
(01:14):
little more about you please?
Yeah, sure.
Um, I'm currently, uh, hanging out herein Michigan, currently rainy Michigan.
Um, but I, uh, started Men BecomingBetter Men about six years ago, uh,
as an in-person group, um, whichmorphed into a, a coaching program
(01:34):
and, and, and some other things.
But what I do is I help men strengthenmarriages, uh, help 'em build trust
and relationships and align theirambition with their values so that
they can win in business withoutsacrificing the things that matter most.
Yeah.
It's pretty awesome lookinginto what you do, Bob.
It's fascinating, you comefrom that hardship learning
(01:58):
experience from a bad marriage.
I, I don't know if it's a bad marriage,but it's a marriage that was dissolved.
Okay.
And, and you know, it, it reallydiffers in marriages a lot.
So I, I'm careful that I don'tstomp on people's feet when I
(02:18):
talk about my own experiencesbecause they differ in many ways.
So, I really wanna start here by,could you explain what a man is to us?
What a man is.
Oh, wow.
Um, aside from the obvious,the physical natures of it?
(02:43):
Yes, biological aside.
Yeah, the biological pieces.
Uh, we had, I think we can,we, we could skip that part.
Um, what a man is?
Um, never really been askedthat question that way.
But, um, what I,
what I think of when I think of, you know,a man as, as someone who's a leader, um, a
(03:05):
protector, a provider, um, you know, the,the, the traditional sense of the word.
Um, but not,
not, I, I don't wanna use theword, not, not a ruler, not a king.
Um, I mean, a lot of men can,can feel like they're, they're
(03:26):
king of world, but I, I, I, I,it's not a ruling type of thing.
I, I don't buy into that.
I think there's, um, there's,there's reasons for and, and purpose
behind, um, a lot of our, the, theleadership things and protection
pieces that we need to do, obviouslyphysically stronger in most cases.
(03:49):
Um, uh, now the, traditionally in the,in the workplace, you know, picking up
the slack and, and doing those things.
Obviously we can't bear children.
We can't, you know, do a lotof those things that women are,
women are doing traditionally in,in marriages and relationships.
So, um, yeah.
(04:10):
But I, very traditional, um, sense of theword and, uh, just trying to lift men up
to, to, to actually live into that becausea lot of men nowadays are, you know, kind
of, kind of beaten down by the whole, youknow, men are worthless type of scenario.
And what I, what I've, what I try towork with men on and teach men on is
(04:34):
that we're, we're not, we need, weneed to assume those leadership roles.
And the more we let go of those leadershiptype roles, um, the more women that,
and my understanding of it is womenare, are, are taking on those roles
because we're not performing them.
And when women are performingthose roles, they get, there again,
(04:55):
we're not, they're not programmed,you know, biologically, DNA wise,
programmed to do those types of things.
And they get, you know, they getfrustrated, they get tired, they get,
you know, out of, out of sorts with that.
And then they start lookingat the husband, I, you
know, why are you worthless?
I'm, you know, I'm gonnago find a guy that isn't.
So, uh, uh, a lot of, a lot of the, theguys that I work with are the type that,
(05:20):
um, have the, have the, well, it's, it'susually, at this point, it's, it's the
guys that have lost those relationships.
Have been, not being the man thatthey're, that they could be or
should be, and that the wives arelike, you know, I'm checking out.
I'm, I'm gonna go have anotherrelationship, I'm gonna leave
you, I'm gonna whatever.
Because they're not, you're not providingthat safety, that, um, that strength,
(05:43):
that safety, that protection thattraditionally, um, comes with being a man.
Yeah, you know, the roles have beenshifting in the years, you know,
as, as we go on and, and I find,myself, that we are seeing hardships
develop out of these role changes.
(06:06):
And it's, it's very important forpeople to recognize that and own up
to it, be truthful with yourself.
And, you know, I, I like that youstarted it off, it's really not a
kingship because just because you'rebigger doesn't make you the ruler.
And I, I really feel that, thatsense of the word, we, we as
(06:33):
men have been pushed in severaldirections in the last few years.
However, we got a bad namebecause of that rulership,
that kingship, you know, I'm, I'm theboss, that's it, that's the way it is.
And I look back in these traditionalroles that you speak about and I see,
(07:01):
I'm sure you'll recognize some of theold television shows, where you find
the mother, father both doing the dishestogether and they're discussing life as
they are doing those chores together.
We've gotten away from that.
And I, myself, have been bringingthat back into my relationship and I
(07:27):
understand when we eat together, weshould clean up together and we shouldn't
assume that's your job, that's my job.
No, no, that's not how it works.
I, I really think that we need toget back into that traditional role
where we are a family and the familyshould be helping each other grow.
(07:54):
What's your thought on that, Bob?
Yeah, absolutely.
My wife, my wife and I, we, we discusswhat we're, what we're gonna do.
It's not, you use the word assume andthat's, that's where it gets, gets, you
know, off track is, you know, the, if thehusband assumes that the wife's always
gonna do the dishes and then he, he stewsaround because, you know, days and days
(08:15):
go by with the, the sink filling up.
You know, there's resentment.
Um, a, a lot of times in my, I I,I have been divorced, you know,
obviously divorced the first time,a lot, there was a lot of score
keeping in my first marriage, youknow, uh, you did this, I did that.
Um, we, we have to keep things equal andthat's not really a, a solution either.
Um, the way I look at my,I'm, I'm married again now,
(08:37):
my wife now has absolutely made it, wediscuss, you know, are there certain
things that I don't like to do?
There's certain things she doesn't like todo, we've, we've discussed those things.
So we have that, that agreementand we know that, okay, I'm gonna
take care of these things, you'regonna take care of these things.
And it, it makes it a lot more harmonious.
That when, when things aren't gettingdone, it's like, you know, I, we,
(08:59):
we have a discussion about it.
It's not, you know, I, I'm expectingthat you're gonna do this and that
I'm gonna sit here and resent you andstew over it for, for weeks at a time.
Yeah.
Conflict always will arise out ofbad communication skills, that's
what I've learned over the years.
Uh, myself, I am on my fortieth year,almost got it nailed for being married.
(09:24):
We've been together forty-two,almost forty-three years,
and it's been very hard.
But yes, it is awesome becausewe figured out how to get through
that communication disharmony.
And I, I found that it was my ownfears keeping me from communicating
(09:48):
effectively with my wife.
If I say something, she'll leave me.
If I say something, she might not like me.
I, is that how you felt?
Absolutely.
Yeah, for sure.
I, I spent almost twenty years withmy first marriage trying, trying
to make my wife happy or help herbe happy and learned very much the
(10:12):
hard way that it was not possible.
And I, and I fought it for yearsand years and years before I finally
decided I had to throw in the towel.
I couldn't, couldn't do it anymore.
And it is, it's, happinessis an internal job.
I, I obviously wasn't happy myself.
She wasn't happy.
So how is an unhappy person gonnamake someone who's unhappy, happy?
(10:36):
That's like, so I had tomake myself happy first.
And, you know, obviously she'sprobably off doing her own thing,
hopefully she's happy now.
I haven't talked to herin probably ten years.
But, um, you know, I, I know my wife nowis happy 'cause, because she does what
she needs to do to make herself be happy.
And then we bring our, both of ourhappiness, our healthy relationships
(10:59):
together, and communication, and otherthings, and it's very harmonious.
We, we very, we fight,we fight very little.
We, we'll, we'll get into it sometimes,but again, that usually, it just, it
dissipates very quickly because weboth realize, and we even had this
discussion yesterday about, um, thingsthat we, we say to each other that, you
(11:20):
know, were coming from a good place,we just, some of our old wounding
from our, 'cause she's divorced too,
she had a, a, a difficult first marriage,I had a difficult first marriage so a lot
of our tendencies are to react in a waythat was from a, a past, past situation.
And then we have to stop andrealize, Well, wait a minute,
(11:40):
this is, this is a new thing.
We have, you know, we've agreed on thesethings, we're not gonna, you know, do
this and, and it dissipates it veryquickly and we get back on the same page.
And, you know, usually five or tenminutes later we're cracking jokes and
laughing again and having a good time.
So.
Well, well that's a signof a healthy relationship.
We're always going to have conflictand, and you really have to be aware
(12:04):
that you have to take ownership ofthat emotional intelligence factor.
And it took me years, I was fifty-fiveplus before I really got that.
You know, and then, then it startedsinking in and now I'm about
sixty and I'm saying, This works.
(12:27):
And that's why I'm heredoing what I'm doing.
And I, I take that's the samevalue that you're finding with
your journey on podcasting?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Try and just, just taking thatwisdom, like you said, and trying to
help the younger generations to, I,I, one of my biggest things is I, I
(12:50):
wanna help men to not struggle withthe things that I struggled with.
Because there was some, I hadsome very dark days during my, my
late thirties and early forties.
Um, that, yeah, I, and I didn't, Ireally didn't wake up until my mid
forties when, when I had gone throughthe divorce and I was like, Wait
a minute, uh, here I am by myself.
(13:12):
I, and my kids, my kids were, hadpretty much either were, were close
to or had graduated from high school.
They were moving on to college,doing their thing, you know,
no, no wife to worry about.
I was like, Wait a minute,what, what's next for me?
What am I gonna do with my life?
And I started thinking about, youknow, all the things that I was good
at and all the things that, and, andit just, it, it came very easily to
(13:35):
me to, to, to jump into coaching.
And find that as a, as a means to goback and give back to, to help guys
that are, you know, you know, gettingmarried as, in their mid twenties,
not knowing what's going on, you know,raising kids, not knowing how to do that.
And all that, all those things thatI learned the hard way back, 'cause,
(13:59):
um, you know, it's not like I wastalking to my dad a lot about, Hey,
how, how do you, how do you raise ason and how do you raise a daughter?
Um, so, so yeah.
It's, it's a, it's a resource that, uh,is, is very available 'cause there's,
there's lots and lots of coaches outthere, we all do different things.
You know, we, we work withdifferent people on different stuff.
(14:20):
And, and to have someone in your cornerthat's, uh, super valuable to, with
their, with their experience so youdon't have to make the same mistakes.
I'm sure you'll find some, some moreto make, but, but being able to, to
avoid some of those, those, thoseones that, and, and, and I, the, the
one that I think is probably the mostimportant is, is, is raising kids.
(14:42):
I mean, I think I got really lucky.
Um, that was one area where myex-wife and I really did excel
was, was raising our kids.
They're both, um, right nowpursuing medical degrees and
I, I look to be, they're gonnabe very successful, um, adults.
But, you know, a lot, a lot of peopleput wounds and, on their kids from
(15:04):
growing up on, on how they're being,and how they're acting, and how they're,
how they're relating, and all that.
That, that really could be avoided,um, if we had, had a little more
education in, in that perspective.
So that's one of the real, the realkey things that I like to look at.
And, and, and then even in, in olderguys like us, being able to go back and
figure out maybe where those, those woundshappened in your life so that we can kind
(15:29):
of reframe those and, and reprogram thosea little bit to where it's not dragging
you back into, you know, that, thathurt people, hurt people, kind of thing.
Just get rid of some of that old hurtand be able to move forward and have,
have more harmonious relationships.
Yeah.
So, Bob, do you speak to yourchildren about this and ask them
(15:52):
how they feel about the situationyou went through together?
We've talked about it some.
Uh, they've been, they've been kindof out on their own for, for the,
uh, the past several years now.
So they're, they're kind of, I'm,I'm kind of just giving 'em some
space to learn and live their lives.
My, my, my youngest is already married,so he's, he's, uh, wading through that
(16:15):
and, and feeling that out, and in themiddle of, uh, still actually in his, in
his, his degree, taking his degree work.
So, um, yeah.
It's, I, I think it's probably gonna comearound a little more as after they get
through this, this, this decade of theirtwenties where they're still kind of in
school learning and, and doing the things.
And once they, they get into, starthaving kids and things like that,
(16:38):
I think we're probably gonna havesome more of those discussions.
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to keepthe door open for that to, so they
can retain that healthy relationshipand learn from having that door open.
Hey, what was this?
Why did I go through it?
Uh, a lot of us get lost and confused.
(17:01):
You, you talk about, uh, past trauma, evenpre-birth trauma, and that is extremely
important for people to realize that, inthat womb, you're developing, but you can
still sense emotion and sound and what'sgoing on in the atmosphere around you.
(17:24):
And you're born into that.
Yeah.
You have, you have cognition, at,pre-birth, you have cognition.
You, you can feel thingsand understand things.
You can't verbalize 'em,obviously, but you can feel 'em.
And that's, that's actually one of mytraumas is, um, my parent, I, I was
conceived before my parents were married.
And I, I have a sense that there wasa lot of, a lot of, I don't know if
(17:48):
anger is the right word, but animosity.
Some, you know, stress, uh, you know, allthe things that would go with, oh my God,
we're, we're having a baby and we're, youknow, we weren't planning to get married.
Now we need to get married and, youknow, we live in this small community,
whether it be judgment, all that stuff.
So I think I, I did absorb a lot ofthat and I made, made meanings of that
internally in myself and have beliefsand identity wrapped around it that,
(18:12):
that really did mess me up a lot in, inmy, my teenage years, my college years,
and a, a lot into my first marriage.
Yeah, I think that's good to recognize.
And actually,
people don't dive deep enough into theirpast traumas, and they don't associate
(18:35):
that with trauma a lot of the times.
So recognizing that is huge.
I, it took me quite a while tofigure that out, but it is very,
very true that we feel these things.
Even still today, when you walkinto a room, you can feel the
atmosphere and it's the same sense.
(18:59):
So
how do we navigate conflict sowe don't blow up during conflict?
I'm sure you've been through manyconflicts that blew out of proportion,
as I have, and I've found there's waysto calm the storm before it blows over.
(19:27):
What's your thought on that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Actually, uh, it's, it's somethingI've been working on the last, last,
um, probably ten, ten or so years.
Cause I, I, I would get pretty angry withmy ex-wife, uh, quite often and never,
never really understood what triggered it.
And like I said, until I understood,uh, some of my past traumas, some of
(19:50):
the things that had happened to mein the past and understood that those
were probably what's driving, um, youknow, whether it was anger, or shame,
or something along those lines thatwas, that was making me react to things
that my, that not even my ex-wife, justanybody would say around me that would
(20:14):
trigger some of those, those feelings.
Um, it's really, really been a, a, achallenge to, to, A, first learn about 'em
and then figure out what to do with 'em.
And a lot of that, for me, has beenthrough meditation, um, breath work, which
I, I've been doing now for a little bit.
Um, really just finding that innerpeace with myself and understanding
(20:37):
that, you know, those, all thosethings that happened to me in
past, in the past don't define me.
And, you know, where, where it's,where the most important part is
for me to be present every, everysingle moment of every single day.
And, and just read what's, readthe room, kind, kind of to, to,
to, to be a little cliche about it.
Um, just to understand that, youknow, nobody, my, even if my wife
(21:01):
now is, even if she says somethingcritical of me or something I said, or
something I did, it's not out of spite.
It's out of either curiosity,or love, or something else.
So I'm, I've gotten a lot better atwaiting to be, remembering that fact
before I just, you know, knee jerk react.
(21:22):
Pause.
Yeah, that, that's a good thing.
You know, it, it is one of those difficultthings that, especially men, deal with
is the shame and guilt associated withhow they reacted to so many situations in
the past, I, I still deal with it today.
(21:42):
With, you know, there was times whenthat anger was so bad that I would be
walking in front of my wife just totallyticked off and she's like, Hey, hey, hey.
But here I am in the middleof a store, you know, storming
about and kind of blowing up.
(22:06):
And I reflect on that a lot because howwe react to emotions is very important.
And young men, especially, need to know,you're going to feel those hostilities,
you're gonna feel the pain and the hateof not knowing and understanding what
(22:30):
you're going through at that present time.
And it's definitely not your partner.
And I think if we learn earlieron to lean in and adjust with
the partner to those situations,that's when we can actually excel.
(22:53):
The quicker we own up to our ownmistakes and say, Okay, I made a
mistake, the better and quicker wecan move on with a better life for
both involved in that relationship.
Yeah.
And then learning, learningfrom those instances too.
Yes.
Big, big.
(23:14):
So a lot of that comes with communicationskills and how to talk to one another.
Not only to your wife, butto individuals out there.
A, a lot of the times it's hard toexpress what you're truly feeling because
(23:35):
we don't wanna offend peopleand we don't wanna be offended.
So understanding how tocommunicate is vital.
How do we communicate better?
Oh, uh, listen, that's the, that'sthe biggest thing, listening.
(23:56):
It, it's, my wife and I weretalking about it this morning.
It was an out, it was an out outdoorevent and we're here in Michigan.
And, and in, in April and May, theweather can be a little sketch, right?
It could, it could either be abeautiful and sunny five and, sunny
and seventy-five, or it can belike it is today, rainy and fifty.
Um, and yesterday we had, we hadscheduled this outdoor event,
(24:19):
we had planned it for months.
And there was, there were men showingup in shorts, there was a, um, a man
showed up in, in like a button down shirtand jeans and he was, he was the one
that was winding up being the coldest.
And I, I was like, Okay, guys,you know, communication, right?
It's an outdoor event.
Did you not read the, you know, the thing?
(24:41):
It's, it's an outdoor event, youmight wanna check the weather
forecast before you come on out.
So that's, that's, that's part of,you know, communicate, listening.
It's, it's not listening, but it's, it'sreading and being thorough in taking,
when you're taking in information,whether it's verbal or written.
Slow down, listen to the words, orhear the words, or read the words,
(25:06):
and, and listen for understandingof, of what the person's saying or
what the text is saying, and then,you know, take action from there.
But a lot of, a lot of peopledon't do that, they just, they're,
they're, everybody's in such ahurry all the time moving so fast.
Oh yeah.
It's at, it's at eight o'clock, okay.
I'll be, uh, it's eight o'clockat this place, I'll be there.
You know, not, not thinking, oh, it'san outside event, oh, it's fifty degrees
(25:30):
outside, I might wanna be prepared.
That, that is so huge ineverybody's life, Bob.
And it's, it's remarkable, wetend to use that as an excuse.
And I, I, I've used it.
Yes, I'm so busy.
And yes, but it's really how we intakethat information and prioritize it.
(25:56):
So it's really part of goodcommunication, if you're not clear,
to follow up and really make sure thatyou've got the information proper.
And, and that, that shows that youcare about that relationship, correct?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it also helps too, uh, uh, on mypart, my ownership part of it, is to be
(26:20):
thorough when I'm, when I'm communicating.
Whether it's verbally orin writing, to be thorough.
And, and I may, I may not have been clearenough yesterday that, you know, I could
have put outdoor event, um, instead ofjust, you know, the location, the way I
described the location, it was an outdoorpavilion so it was, or a pavilion so it
(26:42):
was kind of assumed that it was outdoor.
But if I had of put outdoorpavilion, maybe people
would've clicked a little bit.
So I have responsibility in that as wellto make sure I'm communicating clearly
and effectively so, so, makes it easierfor people who are busy and what, and
preoccupied like we all are now, um, to,to get all the information they need.
(27:04):
And that magic wordpopped up again, assume.
You know, if we capture thatwe can actually get clarity.
So we, we really have to be carefulof what we're doing on both ends
of communication, that's for sure.
Uh, you talk about commoninterest with your partner, I
(27:30):
find this to be very important.
Uh, and sometimes we findlater on in life, Hey, we
don't have anything in common.
And if, if we can get thatthrough to the younger generation,
(27:51):
I, I find it very vital.
Don't just fall for thefirst one that loves you.
Make sure that you have thoseinterests and you, you're compatible.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh absolutely, Ed.
Um, that was my mistake on, on round one.
I mean, I wouldn't trade it for the world.
(28:11):
My kids are amazing, they're,they, they're gonna do
amazing things in their lives.
So it was all meant to beand it was all worthwhile.
But yeah, the, the, there were somany red flags, um, at, before my
first, before my first marriage that,that I didn't see, because again, I
was exactly what you just described.
First person that paid any, anyattention to me or, or felt like
(28:34):
they liked to be around me, or, um,were interested in me in, in any way.
And, and as the years went by,we had less and less in common.
Um, aside, aside from our kids, wereally didn't have much in common.
The things I wanted to do, um, I, Iwould, I would, I always loved playing,
you know, the beer league softball,beer league hockey, and she would always
(28:58):
question, Why are you going to do that?
I don't understand.
Why do you, and then why doyou have to go to the bar after
and have a beer with the guys?
Well, 'cause I need men in my, youknow, I, I needed men in my life that
needed that, that fellowship and thatcompanionship of, of masculinity.
Because all I was getting was, was thefemininity at home and the, and the,
(29:19):
so that was a huge piece of my life.
And actually once I finally,unfortunately, that made the
decision to give that up.
That's when the marriage, youknow, it was, it was going along
probably like this and then itjust, right, right down the drain.
Because I gave those things up and I wasmissing that, that piece, and I couldn't,
(29:41):
it was too hard to cope at that point.
So what was that moment that itwent rock bottom for you, Bob?
When I, when I, when I decidedto make her happy and give up the
things that I loved doing, whichwere playing softball and hockey.
Interesting.
So we, we have to make sure tolove ourself, and that means to
(30:07):
be able to do those experiencesthat we want to experience.
And, you know, I often say, Hey, wouldyou like to experience this with me?
You know, sharing experiences.
If, if you can't share experience,it's really not worth the time, is it?
(30:31):
Oh absolutely, that'swhat my wife and I do now.
We just, we just got backfrom an experience last week.
We, we, we rented an RV for thefirst time, drove it thirteen and a
half hours from, from Michigan downto Arkansas and, and went glamping.
So, and it was an, every, everymoment of the whole trip was
(30:51):
an experience to remember.
It was, it was, start from, you know,being on the road and, and, uh, you know,
learning that you can actually park an RVovernight in a Cracker Barrel parking lot,
which we didn't know until we actuallygot on the road, which was awesome.
Um, now just all kinds of thingsthat we, we learned along the way.
Um, and we have, we have agreat time together when we,
(31:12):
when we do stuff like that.
And it's just, everymoment is an adventure.
And if you're, if you're able tofind someone and be with someone
who is, is as open to that type ofadventure as you are, that's, that's
the golden ticket right there.
There's a huge difference when youaccepted that you needed to be with
(31:33):
somebody that was in alignment with you.
Yeah, for sure.
Awesome.
Yeah, I, I think that's big.
So, so we should take time beforewe jump in and make sure we qualify.
I like that a lot.
Absolutely.
And I, and I, I had this conversationwith someone, uh, in the last couple
(31:56):
weeks, you know, someone that was inthe, in the dating pool and, and looking
for, and, and I said, you know, it's,yeah, it's hard, dating, uh, is hard.
Um, you know, I've, I've heard tonsof stories even in the last, you know,
I've, I've been with my wife now forten years, so it's been a minute.
But even the last five or so years whereI, I just hear guys complaining about
(32:19):
how, how difficult it is, I just, I, myadvice to 'em is just keep, keep going,
kept, if you gotta go on a thousanddates to find the one, you know, it,
it's not, you know, you're not gonna getlucky the, for the first or second time.
You gotta, you gotta try, you gottatry people on literally and, and,
(32:39):
um, and, and find the one that,you know, checks all the boxes.
And, and to settle for somethingor someone that doesn't check all
the boxes is, it's just gonna comeback to bite you down the road.
And there's, you know, how, how manymillions of, I don't, I don't remember
the numbers off the top of my head,but how many million people are there,
millions of people that are there inthis country, just in the US alone?
(33:00):
Um, there's, there's someone for everyone.
You just gotta find her or him orwhomever it is to, uh, that, that,
that person that, that checks allthe boxes and makes it, you know?
Uh, probably the biggest, the biggestone for me was someone that is going
to, um, support me and celebrate mein, in the things that I wanna do.
(33:21):
Unlike my ex who would give me a hard timeif I wanted to, to go play ball or play,
you know, do something, go even, even golfor whatever, you know, to support that.
Um, my wife now, I, I've had the men'sgroup now for five years, and every,
every other Saturday morning I was gettingup to go and spend two, three hours
and she supported every minute of it.
(33:42):
Whereas my, my ex-wife, she'dbeen, why are you doing this?
I don't understand.
You should be spending timewith me and the kids, and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's just, it's, that's findingthat kind of person that, that fits
into what, you know, if that's, ifthat's your jam, then, then great.
If that's the kind of woman that you,
you know, you should be with.
But, um, if you, if you need thatfreedom and you need that, have that
(34:04):
connection and relationships with otherpeople, you gotta find that person that,
that jives with that and, and supportsit and, and celebrates it with you.
That, hey, you've got a growing men'sgroup, or whatever the case may be, to,
to, to keep it, things going and keep it.
So, and, and then you gain a lot of,you get a lot of respect for that.
I mean, men, that's oneof our things, right?
Men want respect, Women want love.
(34:25):
So if you're giving her the, uh, uh,uh, appropriate amounts of love and,
and, do, letting you, you know, havethose experiences outside of the
relationship, she's gonna give you thatrespect for, for being consistent and
having the boundaries to go and do it.
Yeah.
So I wanna kind of segue intoyour coaching and what you offer.
(34:48):
Uh, do you bring ladies into your coachingand have the guys experience different
frames of mind from, what I mean by thatis, sometimes we look at our wife and
(35:09):
we don't like to hear what she says.
But sometimes if we hear itfrom other women, we might
pay attention a little more.
Is any of that sort of in your coaching?
No.
I, what I tend to do is I take,take men back to the fundamentals.
(35:30):
Um, I, I, I actually, I,I use the acronym Empower.
It's environment, mindset, purpose,opportunities, wellbeing and resources.
So having the right environment, havingthings set up for, for you to, to thrive
and, and enjoy life, whatever that may be.
(35:50):
Um, mindset goes without saying.
You've got, you've gotta havea positive growth mindset.
You can't, if you have a fixed mindset,you, uh, that, that's my old life.
I, I got a, when I graduated fromcollege, I thought I knew everything.
I stopped learning.
I didn't pick up a, uh, uh, aneducational book for about twenty
years after I graduated from college.
And I missed out, I missed out.
(36:11):
All the, all the books I've read inthe last ten or fifteen years, I'm
like, if I'd have known this when Iwas in my thirties, I, you know, I
could be on top of the world right now.
Um, obviously purpose, a lot ofmen, uh, especially like I mentioned
earlier, we get to that point in our,
whether it's in our marriages or withour kids, especially, you know, they
(36:31):
get off, go off to college and all of asudden where, when you sat, stood there
and said, My purpose is to raise my familyfor the last fifteen to eighteen years.
And all of a sudden you get to thatpoint where all the kids are gone,
they're doing their thing, theydon't need dad so much anymore.
What's my purpose?
And you're standing there with nothingto do other than maybe go play a
round of golf with your buddies.
(36:52):
So, so having a, a deeper purpose thatcarries you into your forties, fifties,
sixties, seventies is, is super important.
Having opportunities to, to, um,whether it's, again, um, have that,
have something purposeful to do,whether it's financial stability,
you know, building your retirementportfolio, things like that we work on.
(37:13):
Um, obviously your wellbeing,your mental, physical, spiritual
health, super important, andhaving fundamentals around those.
A lot of guys, you know, don't, don't,don't emphasize that that physical
health, that mental health, thatspiritual health, they just keep going
and going and doing on the hamster wheeland they're burning themselves out.
And, and to be able to have those, thosefundamentals in place and habit, good
(37:36):
habits in place is super important.
And then resources, you know,obviously having, having enough
money to do the things that youwanna do, that's, that's a big one.
Um, my wife and I right now loveto travel, so having the resources
to do that so we can traveland have those experiences like
I mentioned, super important.
So those are all the things that,that I like to work on with men and
(37:57):
make sure that they're, they're,they're hitting all, hitting all
those, checking all those boxes.
And then, again, having thefoundation, the fundamentals, and
then using those to build up on.
Yeah.
So building up self-esteem is big.
And you, you went through thiswith your weight loss journey.
(38:20):
How do, how do you feel compared toyour old self, to your new self, Bob?
Oh, it's not even the same guy.
Not even.
Not even the same guy that, I mean,that guy used to walk up, you know, walk
up a flight of stairs and get winded.
Um, he, you know, he used toget angry at the drop of a hat.
(38:44):
Um, take offense and, and, andjudge, judge people walking down the
street for, for looking different,or being different, or whatever.
And he, that, that guydoesn't exist anymore.
He's, he's, I, I mean, he, he pokeshis head up every once in a while and I
try to shove him back in the can, but,um, but for the, for the most part, he,
that, that, that guy no longer exists.
(39:06):
And, and I, I do my best to love and serveeverybody, uh, that I come across and,
uh, you know, try to, try to, try to leavethis place better than the way I found it.
Amen.
I like that a lot.
You know, shoving him back in thecan, I think that's very important.
Uh, we, we all have these triggerpoints and if we can recognize
(39:30):
those, we can actually shove himback in the can a lot easier.
So I like that, that visualization,you know, just get back in the can.
That's great.
Let's, let's, let's get back in thereand, and we'll, we'll keep on moving.
Bob, is there anything elseyou think we should speak about
(39:54):
today before we wrap things up?
Um, I think I, I think I coveredall, all the high points of
things that I wanted to, I wantedto get on, on record with you.
So, um, other than that, just, youknow, if, if men are interested
in talking about what it lookslike to, uh, to work together.
if they, if again, if they wannastrengthen their marriage, build
(40:16):
trusting relationships, or, um, aligntheir ambition with their values so
they can thrive in their businesses,uh, I'd love to talk to you.
I do, I offer a free consultation.
Um, go to my website, men,menbecomingbettermen, here on the wall
behind me, um, menbecomingbettermen.com.
Um, inquire on there.
And, uh, I'd, I'd loveto have a talk with you.
(40:37):
We can see, see where you, whatyou're up against and, and what
it, where it is you wanna go.
I mean, that's really the, probably themost important thing, um, is, uh, having
an understanding of where you wanna go.
If you don't like where you're at, um, youwanna, obviously wanna go somewhere else.
We can, we can help put that roadmaptogether and, and get you from where
you were to where you wanna be.
So is there any social sites thatpeople can look you up on and see
(41:01):
if they wanna connect with you?
Yeah, sure.
Uh, my Instagram is therelationship engineer.
Uh, also same on TikTok,the relationship engineer.
Those are probably the two easiestto where you can see some of my
content, kind of get a, get a feelfor, for some of the things I talk
about, things I work with people on.
And, uh, and obviously message methrough either of those as well.
(41:23):
It, it, it's always good to speak withpeople out there doing good things, Bob.
And you're doing remarkable things.
Divorce rate is through the roof andif, if we can educate people how to
overcome those things before thatdivorce, it's, it's always a good thing.
(41:46):
And I appreciate you sharing withus today and I wish you the best.
Thank you, sir, I appreciate that.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(42:08):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
When you're taking in information,whether it's verbal or written, slow down.
Listen to the words, or hear the words,or read the words, and, um, listen for
understanding of, of what the person'ssaying or what the text is saying.
And then, you know,take action from there.
But.
(00:54):
Today, we are speaking with Bob Wischer.
He is the relationship engineerand he developed a coaching
program, a group, called Men's,Men Becoming Better Men Group.
Bob, could you please introduceyourself and let people know a
(01:14):
little more about you please?
Yeah, sure.
Um, I'm currently, uh, hanging out herein Michigan, currently rainy Michigan.
Um, but I, uh, started Men BecomingBetter Men about six years ago, uh,
as an in-person group, um, whichmorphed into a, a coaching program
(01:34):
and, and, and some other things.
But what I do is I help men strengthenmarriages, uh, help 'em build trust
and relationships and align theirambition with their values so that
they can win in business withoutsacrificing the things that matter most.
Yeah.
It's pretty awesome lookinginto what you do, Bob.
It's fascinating, you comefrom that hardship learning
(01:58):
experience from a bad marriage.
I, I don't know if it's a bad marriage,but it's a marriage that was dissolved.
Okay.
And, and you know, it, it reallydiffers in marriages a lot.
So I, I'm careful that I don'tstomp on people's feet when I
(02:18):
talk about my own experiencesbecause they differ in many ways.
So, I really wanna start here by,could you explain what a man is to us?
What a man is.
Oh, wow.
Um, aside from the obvious,the physical natures of it?
(02:43):
Yes, biological aside.
Yeah, the biological pieces.
Uh, we had, I think we can,we, we could skip that part.
Um, what a man is?
Um, never really been askedthat question that way.
But, um, what I,
what I think of when I think of, you know,a man as, as someone who's a leader, um, a
(03:05):
protector, a provider, um, you know, the,the, the traditional sense of the word.
Um, but not,
not, I, I don't wanna use theword, not, not a ruler, not a king.
Um, I mean, a lot of men can,can feel like they're, they're
(03:26):
king of world, but I, I, I, I,it's not a ruling type of thing.
I, I don't buy into that.
I think there's, um, there's,there's reasons for and, and purpose
behind, um, a lot of our, the, theleadership things and protection
pieces that we need to do, obviouslyphysically stronger in most cases.
(03:49):
Um, uh, now the, traditionally in the,in the workplace, you know, picking up
the slack and, and doing those things.
Obviously we can't bear children.
We can't, you know, do a lotof those things that women are,
women are doing traditionally in,in marriages and relationships.
So, um, yeah.
(04:10):
But I, very traditional, um, sense of theword and, uh, just trying to lift men up
to, to, to actually live into that becausea lot of men nowadays are, you know, kind
of, kind of beaten down by the whole, youknow, men are worthless type of scenario.
And what I, what I've, what I try towork with men on and teach men on is
(04:34):
that we're, we're not, we need, weneed to assume those leadership roles.
And the more we let go of those leadershiptype roles, um, the more women that,
and my understanding of it is womenare, are, are taking on those roles
because we're not performing them.
And when women are performingthose roles, they get, there again,
(04:55):
we're not, they're not programmed,you know, biologically, DNA wise,
programmed to do those types of things.
And they get, you know, they getfrustrated, they get tired, they get,
you know, out of, out of sorts with that.
And then they start lookingat the husband, I, you
know, why are you worthless?
I'm, you know, I'm gonnago find a guy that isn't.
So, uh, uh, a lot of, a lot of the, theguys that I work with are the type that,
(05:20):
um, have the, have the, well, it's, it'susually, at this point, it's, it's the
guys that have lost those relationships.
Have been, not being the man thatthey're, that they could be or
should be, and that the wives arelike, you know, I'm checking out.
I'm, I'm gonna go have anotherrelationship, I'm gonna leave
you, I'm gonna whatever.
Because they're not, you're not providingthat safety, that, um, that strength,
(05:43):
that safety, that protection thattraditionally, um, comes with being a man.
Yeah, you know, the roles have beenshifting in the years, you know,
as, as we go on and, and I find,myself, that we are seeing hardships
develop out of these role changes.
(06:06):
And it's, it's very important forpeople to recognize that and own up
to it, be truthful with yourself.
And, you know, I, I like that youstarted it off, it's really not a
kingship because just because you'rebigger doesn't make you the ruler.
And I, I really feel that, thatsense of the word, we, we as
(06:33):
men have been pushed in severaldirections in the last few years.
However, we got a bad namebecause of that rulership,
that kingship, you know, I'm, I'm theboss, that's it, that's the way it is.
And I look back in these traditionalroles that you speak about and I see,
(07:01):
I'm sure you'll recognize some of theold television shows, where you find
the mother, father both doing the dishestogether and they're discussing life as
they are doing those chores together.
We've gotten away from that.
And I, myself, have been bringingthat back into my relationship and I
(07:27):
understand when we eat together, weshould clean up together and we shouldn't
assume that's your job, that's my job.
No, no, that's not how it works.
I, I really think that we need toget back into that traditional role
where we are a family and the familyshould be helping each other grow.
(07:54):
What's your thought on that, Bob?
Yeah, absolutely.
My wife, my wife and I, we, we discusswhat we're, what we're gonna do.
It's not, you use the word assume andthat's, that's where it gets, gets, you
know, off track is, you know, the, if thehusband assumes that the wife's always
gonna do the dishes and then he, he stewsaround because, you know, days and days
(08:15):
go by with the, the sink filling up.
You know, there's resentment.
Um, a, a lot of times in my, I I,I have been divorced, you know,
obviously divorced the first time,a lot, there was a lot of score
keeping in my first marriage, youknow, uh, you did this, I did that.
Um, we, we have to keep things equal andthat's not really a, a solution either.
Um, the way I look at my,I'm, I'm married again now,
(08:37):
my wife now has absolutely made it, wediscuss, you know, are there certain
things that I don't like to do?
There's certain things she doesn't like todo, we've, we've discussed those things.
So we have that, that agreementand we know that, okay, I'm gonna
take care of these things, you'regonna take care of these things.
And it, it makes it a lot more harmonious.
That when, when things aren't gettingdone, it's like, you know, I, we,
(08:59):
we have a discussion about it.
It's not, you know, I, I'm expectingthat you're gonna do this and that
I'm gonna sit here and resent you andstew over it for, for weeks at a time.
Yeah.
Conflict always will arise out ofbad communication skills, that's
what I've learned over the years.
Uh, myself, I am on my fortieth year,almost got it nailed for being married.
(09:24):
We've been together forty-two,almost forty-three years,
and it's been very hard.
But yes, it is awesome becausewe figured out how to get through
that communication disharmony.
And I, I found that it was my ownfears keeping me from communicating
(09:48):
effectively with my wife.
If I say something, she'll leave me.
If I say something, she might not like me.
I, is that how you felt?
Absolutely.
Yeah, for sure.
I, I spent almost twenty years withmy first marriage trying, trying
to make my wife happy or help herbe happy and learned very much the
(10:12):
hard way that it was not possible.
And I, and I fought it for yearsand years and years before I finally
decided I had to throw in the towel.
I couldn't, couldn't do it anymore.
And it is, it's, happinessis an internal job.
I, I obviously wasn't happy myself.
She wasn't happy.
So how is an unhappy person gonnamake someone who's unhappy, happy?
(10:36):
That's like, so I had tomake myself happy first.
And, you know, obviously she'sprobably off doing her own thing,
hopefully she's happy now.
I haven't talked to herin probably ten years.
But, um, you know, I, I know my wife nowis happy 'cause, because she does what
she needs to do to make herself be happy.
And then we bring our, both of ourhappiness, our healthy relationships
(10:59):
together, and communication, and otherthings, and it's very harmonious.
We, we very, we fight,we fight very little.
We, we'll, we'll get into it sometimes,but again, that usually, it just, it
dissipates very quickly because weboth realize, and we even had this
discussion yesterday about, um, thingsthat we, we say to each other that, you
(11:20):
know, were coming from a good place,we just, some of our old wounding
from our, 'cause she's divorced too,
she had a, a, a difficult first marriage,I had a difficult first marriage so a lot
of our tendencies are to react in a waythat was from a, a past, past situation.
And then we have to stop andrealize, Well, wait a minute,
(11:40):
this is, this is a new thing.
We have, you know, we've agreed on thesethings, we're not gonna, you know, do
this and, and it dissipates it veryquickly and we get back on the same page.
And, you know, usually five or tenminutes later we're cracking jokes and
laughing again and having a good time.
So.
Well, well that's a signof a healthy relationship.
We're always going to have conflictand, and you really have to be aware
(12:04):
that you have to take ownership ofthat emotional intelligence factor.
And it took me years, I was fifty-fiveplus before I really got that.
You know, and then, then it startedsinking in and now I'm about
sixty and I'm saying, This works.
(12:27):
And that's why I'm heredoing what I'm doing.
And I, I take that's the samevalue that you're finding with
your journey on podcasting?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Try and just, just taking thatwisdom, like you said, and trying to
help the younger generations to, I,I, one of my biggest things is I, I
(12:50):
wanna help men to not struggle withthe things that I struggled with.
Because there was some, I hadsome very dark days during my, my
late thirties and early forties.
Um, that, yeah, I, and I didn't, Ireally didn't wake up until my mid
forties when, when I had gone throughthe divorce and I was like, Wait
a minute, uh, here I am by myself.
(13:12):
I, and my kids, my kids were, hadpretty much either were, were close
to or had graduated from high school.
They were moving on to college,doing their thing, you know,
no, no wife to worry about.
I was like, Wait a minute,what, what's next for me?
What am I gonna do with my life?
And I started thinking about, youknow, all the things that I was good
at and all the things that, and, andit just, it, it came very easily to
(13:35):
me to, to, to jump into coaching.
And find that as a, as a means to goback and give back to, to help guys
that are, you know, you know, gettingmarried as, in their mid twenties,
not knowing what's going on, you know,raising kids, not knowing how to do that.
And all that, all those things thatI learned the hard way back, 'cause,
(13:59):
um, you know, it's not like I wastalking to my dad a lot about, Hey,
how, how do you, how do you raise ason and how do you raise a daughter?
Um, so, so yeah.
It's, it's a, it's a resource that, uh,is, is very available 'cause there's,
there's lots and lots of coaches outthere, we all do different things.
You know, we, we work withdifferent people on different stuff.
(14:20):
And, and to have someone in your cornerthat's, uh, super valuable to, with
their, with their experience so youdon't have to make the same mistakes.
I'm sure you'll find some, some moreto make, but, but being able to, to
avoid some of those, those, thoseones that, and, and, and I, the, the
one that I think is probably the mostimportant is, is, is raising kids.
(14:42):
I mean, I think I got really lucky.
Um, that was one area where myex-wife and I really did excel
was, was raising our kids.
They're both, um, right nowpursuing medical degrees and
I, I look to be, they're gonnabe very successful, um, adults.
But, you know, a lot, a lot of peopleput wounds and, on their kids from
(15:04):
growing up on, on how they're being,and how they're acting, and how they're,
how they're relating, and all that.
That, that really could be avoided,um, if we had, had a little more
education in, in that perspective.
So that's one of the real, the realkey things that I like to look at.
And, and, and then even in, in olderguys like us, being able to go back and
figure out maybe where those, those woundshappened in your life so that we can kind
(15:29):
of reframe those and, and reprogram thosea little bit to where it's not dragging
you back into, you know, that, thathurt people, hurt people, kind of thing.
Just get rid of some of that old hurtand be able to move forward and have,
have more harmonious relationships.
Yeah.
So, Bob, do you speak to yourchildren about this and ask them
(15:52):
how they feel about the situationyou went through together?
We've talked about it some.
Uh, they've been, they've been kindof out on their own for, for the,
uh, the past several years now.
So they're, they're kind of, I'm,I'm kind of just giving 'em some
space to learn and live their lives.
My, my, my youngest is already married,so he's, he's, uh, wading through that
(16:15):
and, and feeling that out, and in themiddle of, uh, still actually in his, in
his, his degree, taking his degree work.
So, um, yeah.
It's, I, I think it's probably gonna comearound a little more as after they get
through this, this, this decade of theirtwenties where they're still kind of in
school learning and, and doing the things.
And once they, they get into, starthaving kids and things like that,
(16:38):
I think we're probably gonna havesome more of those discussions.
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to keepthe door open for that to, so they
can retain that healthy relationshipand learn from having that door open.
Hey, what was this?
Why did I go through it?
Uh, a lot of us get lost and confused.
(17:01):
You, you talk about, uh, past trauma, evenpre-birth trauma, and that is extremely
important for people to realize that, inthat womb, you're developing, but you can
still sense emotion and sound and what'sgoing on in the atmosphere around you.
(17:24):
And you're born into that.
Yeah.
You have, you have cognition, at,pre-birth, you have cognition.
You, you can feel thingsand understand things.
You can't verbalize 'em,obviously, but you can feel 'em.
And that's, that's actually one of mytraumas is, um, my parent, I, I was
conceived before my parents were married.
And I, I have a sense that there wasa lot of, a lot of, I don't know if
(17:48):
anger is the right word, but animosity.
Some, you know, stress, uh, you know, allthe things that would go with, oh my God,
we're, we're having a baby and we're, youknow, we weren't planning to get married.
Now we need to get married and, youknow, we live in this small community,
whether it be judgment, all that stuff.
So I think I, I did absorb a lot ofthat and I made, made meanings of that
internally in myself and have beliefsand identity wrapped around it that,
(18:12):
that really did mess me up a lot in, inmy, my teenage years, my college years,
and a, a lot into my first marriage.
Yeah, I think that's good to recognize.
And actually,
people don't dive deep enough into theirpast traumas, and they don't associate
(18:35):
that with trauma a lot of the times.
So recognizing that is huge.
I, it took me quite a while tofigure that out, but it is very,
very true that we feel these things.
Even still today, when you walkinto a room, you can feel the
atmosphere and it's the same sense.
(18:59):
So
how do we navigate conflict sowe don't blow up during conflict?
I'm sure you've been through manyconflicts that blew out of proportion,
as I have, and I've found there's waysto calm the storm before it blows over.
(19:27):
What's your thought on that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Actually, uh, it's, it's somethingI've been working on the last, last,
um, probably ten, ten or so years.
Cause I, I, I would get pretty angry withmy ex-wife, uh, quite often and never,
never really understood what triggered it.
And like I said, until I understood,uh, some of my past traumas, some of
(19:50):
the things that had happened to mein the past and understood that those
were probably what's driving, um, youknow, whether it was anger, or shame,
or something along those lines thatwas, that was making me react to things
that my, that not even my ex-wife, justanybody would say around me that would
(20:14):
trigger some of those, those feelings.
Um, it's really, really been a, a, achallenge to, to, A, first learn about 'em
and then figure out what to do with 'em.
And a lot of that, for me, has beenthrough meditation, um, breath work, which
I, I've been doing now for a little bit.
Um, really just finding that innerpeace with myself and understanding
(20:37):
that, you know, those, all thosethings that happened to me in
past, in the past don't define me.
And, you know, where, where it's,where the most important part is
for me to be present every, everysingle moment of every single day.
And, and just read what's, readthe room, kind, kind of to, to,
to, to be a little cliche about it.
Um, just to understand that, youknow, nobody, my, even if my wife
(21:01):
now is, even if she says somethingcritical of me or something I said, or
something I did, it's not out of spite.
It's out of either curiosity,or love, or something else.
So I'm, I've gotten a lot better atwaiting to be, remembering that fact
before I just, you know, knee jerk react.
(21:22):
Pause.
Yeah, that, that's a good thing.
You know, it, it is one of those difficultthings that, especially men, deal with
is the shame and guilt associated withhow they reacted to so many situations in
the past, I, I still deal with it today.
(21:42):
With, you know, there was times whenthat anger was so bad that I would be
walking in front of my wife just totallyticked off and she's like, Hey, hey, hey.
But here I am in the middleof a store, you know, storming
about and kind of blowing up.
(22:06):
And I reflect on that a lot because howwe react to emotions is very important.
And young men, especially, need to know,you're going to feel those hostilities,
you're gonna feel the pain and the hateof not knowing and understanding what
(22:30):
you're going through at that present time.
And it's definitely not your partner.
And I think if we learn earlieron to lean in and adjust with
the partner to those situations,that's when we can actually excel.
(22:53):
The quicker we own up to our ownmistakes and say, Okay, I made a
mistake, the better and quicker wecan move on with a better life for
both involved in that relationship.
Yeah.
And then learning, learningfrom those instances too.
Yes.
Big, big.
(23:14):
So a lot of that comes with communicationskills and how to talk to one another.
Not only to your wife, butto individuals out there.
A, a lot of the times it's hard toexpress what you're truly feeling because
(23:35):
we don't wanna offend peopleand we don't wanna be offended.
So understanding how tocommunicate is vital.
How do we communicate better?
Oh, uh, listen, that's the, that'sthe biggest thing, listening.
(23:56):
It, it's, my wife and I weretalking about it this morning.
It was an out, it was an out outdoorevent and we're here in Michigan.
And, and in, in April and May, theweather can be a little sketch, right?
It could, it could either be abeautiful and sunny five and, sunny
and seventy-five, or it can belike it is today, rainy and fifty.
Um, and yesterday we had, we hadscheduled this outdoor event,
(24:19):
we had planned it for months.
And there was, there were men showingup in shorts, there was a, um, a man
showed up in, in like a button down shirtand jeans and he was, he was the one
that was winding up being the coldest.
And I, I was like, Okay, guys,you know, communication, right?
It's an outdoor event.
Did you not read the, you know, the thing?
(24:41):
It's, it's an outdoor event, youmight wanna check the weather
forecast before you come on out.
So that's, that's, that's part of,you know, communicate, listening.
It's, it's not listening, but it's, it'sreading and being thorough in taking,
when you're taking in information,whether it's verbal or written.
Slow down, listen to the words, orhear the words, or read the words,
(25:06):
and, and listen for understandingof, of what the person's saying or
what the text is saying, and then,you know, take action from there.
But a lot of, a lot of peopledon't do that, they just, they're,
they're, everybody's in such ahurry all the time moving so fast.
Oh yeah.
It's at, it's at eight o'clock, okay.
I'll be, uh, it's eight o'clockat this place, I'll be there.
You know, not, not thinking, oh, it'san outside event, oh, it's fifty degrees
(25:30):
outside, I might wanna be prepared.
That, that is so huge ineverybody's life, Bob.
And it's, it's remarkable, wetend to use that as an excuse.
And I, I, I've used it.
Yes, I'm so busy.
And yes, but it's really how we intakethat information and prioritize it.
(25:56):
So it's really part of goodcommunication, if you're not clear,
to follow up and really make sure thatyou've got the information proper.
And, and that, that shows that youcare about that relationship, correct?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it also helps too, uh, uh, on mypart, my ownership part of it, is to be
(26:20):
thorough when I'm, when I'm communicating.
Whether it's verbally orin writing, to be thorough.
And, and I may, I may not have been clearenough yesterday that, you know, I could
have put outdoor event, um, instead ofjust, you know, the location, the way I
described the location, it was an outdoorpavilion so it was, or a pavilion so it
(26:42):
was kind of assumed that it was outdoor.
But if I had of put outdoorpavilion, maybe people
would've clicked a little bit.
So I have responsibility in that as wellto make sure I'm communicating clearly
and effectively so, so, makes it easierfor people who are busy and what, and
preoccupied like we all are now, um, to,to get all the information they need.
(27:04):
And that magic wordpopped up again, assume.
You know, if we capture thatwe can actually get clarity.
So we, we really have to be carefulof what we're doing on both ends
of communication, that's for sure.
Uh, you talk about commoninterest with your partner, I
(27:30):
find this to be very important.
Uh, and sometimes we findlater on in life, Hey, we
don't have anything in common.
And if, if we can get thatthrough to the younger generation,
(27:51):
I, I find it very vital.
Don't just fall for thefirst one that loves you.
Make sure that you have thoseinterests and you, you're compatible.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh absolutely, Ed.
Um, that was my mistake on, on round one.
I mean, I wouldn't trade it for the world.
(28:11):
My kids are amazing, they're,they, they're gonna do
amazing things in their lives.
So it was all meant to beand it was all worthwhile.
But yeah, the, the, there were somany red flags, um, at, before my
first, before my first marriage that,that I didn't see, because again, I
was exactly what you just described.
First person that paid any, anyattention to me or, or felt like
(28:34):
they liked to be around me, or, um,were interested in me in, in any way.
And, and as the years went by,we had less and less in common.
Um, aside, aside from our kids, wereally didn't have much in common.
The things I wanted to do, um, I, Iwould, I would, I always loved playing,
you know, the beer league softball,beer league hockey, and she would always
(28:58):
question, Why are you going to do that?
I don't understand.
Why do you, and then why doyou have to go to the bar after
and have a beer with the guys?
Well, 'cause I need men in my, youknow, I, I needed men in my life that
needed that, that fellowship and thatcompanionship of, of masculinity.
Because all I was getting was, was thefemininity at home and the, and the,
(29:19):
so that was a huge piece of my life.
And actually once I finally,unfortunately, that made the
decision to give that up.
That's when the marriage, youknow, it was, it was going along
probably like this and then itjust, right, right down the drain.
Because I gave those things up and I wasmissing that, that piece, and I couldn't,
(29:41):
it was too hard to cope at that point.
So what was that moment that itwent rock bottom for you, Bob?
When I, when I, when I decidedto make her happy and give up the
things that I loved doing, whichwere playing softball and hockey.
Interesting.
So we, we have to make sure tolove ourself, and that means to
(30:07):
be able to do those experiencesthat we want to experience.
And, you know, I often say, Hey, wouldyou like to experience this with me?
You know, sharing experiences.
If, if you can't share experience,it's really not worth the time, is it?
(30:31):
Oh absolutely, that'swhat my wife and I do now.
We just, we just got backfrom an experience last week.
We, we, we rented an RV for thefirst time, drove it thirteen and a
half hours from, from Michigan downto Arkansas and, and went glamping.
So, and it was an, every, everymoment of the whole trip was
(30:51):
an experience to remember.
It was, it was, start from, you know,being on the road and, and, uh, you know,
learning that you can actually park an RVovernight in a Cracker Barrel parking lot,
which we didn't know until we actuallygot on the road, which was awesome.
Um, now just all kinds of thingsthat we, we learned along the way.
Um, and we have, we have agreat time together when we,
(31:12):
when we do stuff like that.
And it's just, everymoment is an adventure.
And if you're, if you're able tofind someone and be with someone
who is, is as open to that type ofadventure as you are, that's, that's
the golden ticket right there.
There's a huge difference when youaccepted that you needed to be with
(31:33):
somebody that was in alignment with you.
Yeah, for sure.
Awesome.
Yeah, I, I think that's big.
So, so we should take time beforewe jump in and make sure we qualify.
I like that a lot.
Absolutely.
And I, and I, I had this conversationwith someone, uh, in the last couple
(31:56):
weeks, you know, someone that was inthe, in the dating pool and, and looking
for, and, and I said, you know, it's,yeah, it's hard, dating, uh, is hard.
Um, you know, I've, I've heard tonsof stories even in the last, you know,
I've, I've been with my wife now forten years, so it's been a minute.
But even the last five or so years whereI, I just hear guys complaining about
(32:19):
how, how difficult it is, I just, I, myadvice to 'em is just keep, keep going,
kept, if you gotta go on a thousanddates to find the one, you know, it,
it's not, you know, you're not gonna getlucky the, for the first or second time.
You gotta, you gotta try, you gottatry people on literally and, and,
(32:39):
um, and, and find the one that,you know, checks all the boxes.
And, and to settle for somethingor someone that doesn't check all
the boxes is, it's just gonna comeback to bite you down the road.
And there's, you know, how, how manymillions of, I don't, I don't remember
the numbers off the top of my head,but how many million people are there,
millions of people that are there inthis country, just in the US alone?
(33:00):
Um, there's, there's someone for everyone.
You just gotta find her or him orwhomever it is to, uh, that, that,
that person that, that checks allthe boxes and makes it, you know?
Uh, probably the biggest, the biggestone for me was someone that is going
to, um, support me and celebrate mein, in the things that I wanna do.
(33:21):
Unlike my ex who would give me a hard timeif I wanted to, to go play ball or play,
you know, do something, go even, even golfor whatever, you know, to support that.
Um, my wife now, I, I've had the men'sgroup now for five years, and every,
every other Saturday morning I was gettingup to go and spend two, three hours
and she supported every minute of it.
(33:42):
Whereas my, my ex-wife, she'dbeen, why are you doing this?
I don't understand.
You should be spending timewith me and the kids, and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's just, it's, that's findingthat kind of person that, that fits
into what, you know, if that's, ifthat's your jam, then, then great.
If that's the kind of woman that you,
you know, you should be with.
But, um, if you, if you need thatfreedom and you need that, have that
(34:04):
connection and relationships with otherpeople, you gotta find that person that,
that jives with that and, and supportsit and, and celebrates it with you.
That, hey, you've got a growing men'sgroup, or whatever the case may be, to,
to, to keep it, things going and keep it.
So, and, and then you gain a lot of,you get a lot of respect for that.
I mean, men, that's oneof our things, right?
Men want respect, Women want love.
(34:25):
So if you're giving her the, uh, uh,uh, appropriate amounts of love and,
and, do, letting you, you know, havethose experiences outside of the
relationship, she's gonna give you thatrespect for, for being consistent and
having the boundaries to go and do it.
Yeah.
So I wanna kind of segue intoyour coaching and what you offer.
(34:48):
Uh, do you bring ladies into your coachingand have the guys experience different
frames of mind from, what I mean by thatis, sometimes we look at our wife and
(35:09):
we don't like to hear what she says.
But sometimes if we hear itfrom other women, we might
pay attention a little more.
Is any of that sort of in your coaching?
No.
I, what I tend to do is I take,take men back to the fundamentals.
(35:30):
Um, I, I, I actually, I,I use the acronym Empower.
It's environment, mindset, purpose,opportunities, wellbeing and resources.
So having the right environment, havingthings set up for, for you to, to thrive
and, and enjoy life, whatever that may be.
(35:50):
Um, mindset goes without saying.
You've got, you've gotta havea positive growth mindset.
You can't, if you have a fixed mindset,you, uh, that, that's my old life.
I, I got a, when I graduated fromcollege, I thought I knew everything.
I stopped learning.
I didn't pick up a, uh, uh, aneducational book for about twenty
years after I graduated from college.
And I missed out, I missed out.
(36:11):
All the, all the books I've read inthe last ten or fifteen years, I'm
like, if I'd have known this when Iwas in my thirties, I, you know, I
could be on top of the world right now.
Um, obviously purpose, a lot ofmen, uh, especially like I mentioned
earlier, we get to that point in our,
whether it's in our marriages or withour kids, especially, you know, they
(36:31):
get off, go off to college and all of asudden where, when you sat, stood there
and said, My purpose is to raise my familyfor the last fifteen to eighteen years.
And all of a sudden you get to thatpoint where all the kids are gone,
they're doing their thing, theydon't need dad so much anymore.
What's my purpose?
And you're standing there with nothingto do other than maybe go play a
round of golf with your buddies.
(36:52):
So, so having a, a deeper purpose thatcarries you into your forties, fifties,
sixties, seventies is, is super important.
Having opportunities to, to, um,whether it's, again, um, have that,
have something purposeful to do,whether it's financial stability,
you know, building your retirementportfolio, things like that we work on.
(37:13):
Um, obviously your wellbeing,your mental, physical, spiritual
health, super important, andhaving fundamentals around those.
A lot of guys, you know, don't, don't,don't emphasize that that physical
health, that mental health, thatspiritual health, they just keep going
and going and doing on the hamster wheeland they're burning themselves out.
And, and to be able to have those, thosefundamentals in place and habit, good
(37:36):
habits in place is super important.
And then resources, you know,obviously having, having enough
money to do the things that youwanna do, that's, that's a big one.
Um, my wife and I right now loveto travel, so having the resources
to do that so we can traveland have those experiences like
I mentioned, super important.
So those are all the things that,that I like to work on with men and
(37:57):
make sure that they're, they're,they're hitting all, hitting all
those, checking all those boxes.
And then, again, having thefoundation, the fundamentals, and
then using those to build up on.
Yeah.
So building up self-esteem is big.
And you, you went through thiswith your weight loss journey.
(38:20):
How do, how do you feel compared toyour old self, to your new self, Bob?
Oh, it's not even the same guy.
Not even.
Not even the same guy that, I mean,that guy used to walk up, you know, walk
up a flight of stairs and get winded.
Um, he, you know, he used toget angry at the drop of a hat.
(38:44):
Um, take offense and, and, andjudge, judge people walking down the
street for, for looking different,or being different, or whatever.
And he, that, that guydoesn't exist anymore.
He's, he's, I, I mean, he, he pokeshis head up every once in a while and I
try to shove him back in the can, but,um, but for the, for the most part, he,
that, that, that guy no longer exists.
(39:06):
And, and I, I do my best to love and serveeverybody, uh, that I come across and,
uh, you know, try to, try to, try to leavethis place better than the way I found it.
Amen.
I like that a lot.
You know, shoving him back in thecan, I think that's very important.
Uh, we, we all have these triggerpoints and if we can recognize
(39:30):
those, we can actually shove himback in the can a lot easier.
So I like that, that visualization,you know, just get back in the can.
That's great.
Let's, let's, let's get back in thereand, and we'll, we'll keep on moving.
Bob, is there anything elseyou think we should speak about
(39:54):
today before we wrap things up?
Um, I think I, I think I coveredall, all the high points of
things that I wanted to, I wantedto get on, on record with you.
So, um, other than that, just, youknow, if, if men are interested
in talking about what it lookslike to, uh, to work together.
if they, if again, if they wannastrengthen their marriage, build
(40:16):
trusting relationships, or, um, aligntheir ambition with their values so
they can thrive in their businesses,uh, I'd love to talk to you.
I do, I offer a free consultation.
Um, go to my website, men,menbecomingbettermen, here on the wall
behind me, um, menbecomingbettermen.com.
Um, inquire on there.
And, uh, I'd, I'd loveto have a talk with you.
(40:37):
We can see, see where you, whatyou're up against and, and what
it, where it is you wanna go.
I mean, that's really the, probably themost important thing, um, is, uh, having
an understanding of where you wanna go.
If you don't like where you're at, um, youwanna, obviously wanna go somewhere else.
We can, we can help put that roadmaptogether and, and get you from where
you were to where you wanna be.
So is there any social sites thatpeople can look you up on and see
(41:01):
if they wanna connect with you?
Yeah, sure.
Uh, my Instagram is therelationship engineer.
Uh, also same on TikTok,the relationship engineer.
Those are probably the two easiestto where you can see some of my
content, kind of get a, get a feelfor, for some of the things I talk
about, things I work with people on.
And, uh, and obviously message methrough either of those as well.
(41:23):
It, it, it's always good to speak withpeople out there doing good things, Bob.
And you're doing remarkable things.
Divorce rate is through the roof andif, if we can educate people how to
overcome those things before thatdivorce, it's, it's always a good thing.
(41:46):
And I appreciate you sharing withus today and I wish you the best.
Thank you, sir, I appreciate that.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(42:08):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
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