July 9, 2025 • 50 mins
Step into an emotionally powerful conversation on the Dead America Podcast with host Ed Watters as he speaks with Dr. Dean and HollyKem Sunseri—authors of A Roadmap to the Soul and creators of the Transform You coaching program. This episode explores emotional intelligence, relationship healing, and the spiritual foundations that foster personal and relational transformation.
Dr. Dean and HollyKem share how embracing a higher power can guide couples through emotional wounds, creating pathways for compassion, forgiveness, and growth. They offer profound insights into the process of repentance and discuss how unresolved emotions can sabotage relationships unless consciously addressed. Through practical tools from their Transform You program, listeners gain actionable guidance for managing emotional triggers, healing past trauma, and strengthening bonds through love and self-awareness.
Whether you're navigating personal challenges or seeking deeper connection with others, this episode provides hope and clarity for those ready to take their emotional lives to a more peaceful place. Learn how emotional intelligence can become the cornerstone of vibrant, spiritually connected relationships.
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
00:54 Meet Dr. Dean and HollyKem Sunseri
02:51 The Importance of Higher Powers in Relationships
08:08 Emotional Intelligence in Relationships
10:50 Understanding and Healing Emotional Wounds
19:14 Taking Responsibility and Trusting Intentions
25:36 Exploring Limiting Patterns
26:06 Understanding the Work Within
29:03 Identifying and Addressing Unhealthy Patterns
31:00 The Power of Love and Acceptance
33:27 The Muddy Shoe Theory
35:35 Principles of Repentance and Forgiveness
42:50 Transform You: Services and Offerings
49:27 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Links
Website: https://www.ihaveavoice.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@IHaveAVoice1212
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/deanhollykem/
Instagram: https://www.youtube.com/@IHaveAVoice1212
X: https://x.com/DeanSunseri
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-sunseri-b918a278/
3 Excellent Resources from Dr. Dean & HollyKem Sunseri
Many Free Videos by Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@IHaveAVoice1212
Book - A Roadmap to the Soul: https://amzn.to/3XeFCiE
Transform U - Online Coaching Program: https://www.ihaveavoice.com/transform-u/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
That, okay, in, in this world,who's showing up to work, right?
(00:04):
So if I'm showing up to work asthis wounded person, you know,
and that, you know, I feel likeI'm a victim, I start attracting
people that treat me like a victim.
So all of a sudden thispattern keeps happening.
But if I stop,
(00:54):
Today, we are speaking withDr. Dean and HollyKem Sunseri.
They are the authors of A Roadmapto the Soul, a practical guide to
love, compassion, and inner peace.
They are also the creators of TransformYou, it's an online coaching program.
(01:17):
Could you please introduce yourselves?
And let people know just a little moreabout you before we get started, please.
Yeah, hi.
Well, we are married.
We've been married since July of 91, sowe're at thirty-three years right now.
And we're both life coaches andtherapists and, um, we wrote a book and
(01:42):
we been helping people for a long time.
But today with online you can, youknow, you can reach across and, uh,
do a lot of good stuff in coaching.
So we're excited to be here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did I miss anything?
Well, there's a lot more to be said,but I think that's a great introduction.
(02:03):
Alright.
Well, uh, the thing I like the mostabout you is you guys are out here
doing this work to bring peopleawareness of how to be better people.
Be better couples.
Uh, being a couple is not easy.
My wife and I, we'vebeen together since 1985.
(02:27):
We were married in 85, butwe've been together since 83.
So this is our fortieth yearbeing married in September.
Uh, thank you andcongratulations to you guys also.
It's hard.
As well you know, you, you have to controlso much to have a positive relationship.
(02:51):
Uh, the thing that I really wannaspeak most about is having that
higher power in our relationship.
You are Christian counselorsand you have that faith.
I, I believe that we have tohave higher powers guiding us.
(03:14):
Could you speak to us first about, whatdo you think about having higher powers
guide us in our relationship and listento the small voices speaking to us?
Yeah, I think that's, uh, that'sreal key to a relationship.
You know, if you look at the, uh,Judeo-Christian tradition, the first
(03:36):
story in the Bible was a man andwoman who were together and they
were walking in harmony with God.
And so there's something aboutthat image, I think, that's very
important because really successfulmarriages are not twosomes, they're
actually threesomes in a sense.
And that the first maritalfight on record was after their
(03:59):
disconnection with God occurred.
And so after, after they fell orthey sinned, they were hiding out
together and God was looking forthem and started to question them.
And then basically they got into ahe did it, she did it kind of thing.
And that was the first fight.
But I think that, you know, it's not onlya story, but I think it has a practical
(04:24):
application to the fact that we are meantto walk in fellowship with the higher
power, with God, with Jesus, Holy Spirit.
And that when that's in harmonyand intact, then it makes the
relationship a lot easier.
Another way of looking at it, it is thatwe all are built inside with a conscience.
(04:47):
And I believe the more connectedwe are spiritually, the more aware
of, we are of our conscience.
And that, that consciencewill, will guide us.
You know, if, if I'm disrespectfulto my wife, earlier in my immature
days, my wife would have to correctme and I would say, Oh, well I
didn't mean that, this and that.
(05:08):
But, but as I've grown and grown morein our connection with the Lord, that
if I say something disrespectful to her,I actually have a check in my spirit.
There's something inside of me thatsays, no, you've gone a little too far.
You're going a little too far.
You need to take responsibilityfor that, cut that down.
And all of a sudden it's like I havethis internal teacher that's teaching
(05:30):
me how to, uh, treat, how to speak to.
Now I can't say I alwaysdo it well, but it's there.
And the greater spiritual awarenessthat we have, the greater that voice
is and it actually helps create agovernor and creates a teacher in
our relationship with our spouseand really in all our relationships.
(05:52):
Well, I think too is that for myself,is that, you know, I love Jesus and God
more than I love my husband and I can,
Amen.
I like that.
Yeah, and I can say that he does too.
So what that does is, that mainrelationship, it keeps me, you
know, grounded in the sense of whatis it that I really want on earth?
(06:15):
You know, what, what'sreally important to me here?
And, you know, to win thatparticular argument or to win that
particular, whatever, negotiation,is like, in a negotiation, I don't
want my spouse to be a loser.
Why would I wanna be married to a loser?
You know what I'm saying?
(06:36):
So it's like in the negotiations,I want us both to win, right?
Because I wanna be married to awinner and I hope he doesn't wanna
be married to a loser either.
So if we look at it like that, thenit's like it becomes a negotiation
for us both to win whateverit is we need to negotiate on.
So, you know, when it becomes that we'repartners and it's not like, you know, I'm
(06:58):
the Saints and he's the Falcons, right?
That we're fighting each other andtrying to win this game versus that
we're both on the Saints team, you know?
He happens to be the offense leaderand I'm the defense leader, I'm the
offense leader and he's the defenseleader, that we're on the same team to
negotiate on how we can win whateverit is that we need to negotiate on.
(07:20):
So it becomes a whole differentway of seeing it versus he's my
competitor and he's my, you know,equal, or he's my person that I have
to fight, or my enemy, you know?
He's my friend, he's my, he's mylover, he's my partner, you know?
I like that a lot, I reallythink that that's key.
(07:42):
If, if we understand that we're goingto have disagreements and we don't
have to argue about every disagreement.
And that falls into the emotionalintelligence that we gain by
accepting our failures, ourweaknesses, and even our divisions.
(08:04):
Uh, what do you have to say about that?
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
And, you know, um, I love talkingabout emotional intelligence.
That's what, that was probably the thingthat I'd have to say, I can say that I've
learned the most in sixty-four years ishow to navigate my emotions, how to know
my emotions, how to connect with them,how to speak for myself, or them, how
(08:27):
to understand where they're coming from.
If they're coming from something that'shappened in front of me or something
in front of me is connecting to someold pain that is left in me and then,
you know, how do I handle that versusthe old ways that I used to handle it?
Or even if I hear it in my head, the oldway that I used to handle it, learning
(08:48):
to hear that, but not empower that.
Yeah.
You know, so really what we've learnedon, how to, you know, and what we
teach is how to really look at thatemotional life, love ourselves through
that, and then speak for ourselves.
And not just become it, you know?
(09:08):
And how, you know, how do younot become it is you gotta be
emotionally intelligent, right?
Yeah.
You wanna go there?
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
We've been doing marriage counseling,coaching for over three decades.
What I find, Ed, that's reallyinteresting is that oftentimes the
people are divorcing the wrong person.
(09:28):
In a sense that
they're trying to divorce their ownpainful history that keeps coming up from
them, that's triggered by their partner,but that's who they're trying to divorce.
And if they're not able to successfully,in a sense, divorce outta common peace in
terms with that, then those very thingswill be played out with their partner.
(09:51):
And so sometimes it's like, to myself, Imean, sometimes I'll say like, You, you
might be divorcing the wrong person here.
You know, you divorce the situation.
Now obviously I'm not talking about anabusive situation and something really
tragic is happening and they need toget out, but I'm just saying in general.
Another thing too, to add, that it'snot about divorcing your parents
(10:13):
No.
or the people that hurt you,it's about divorcing the emotion
that's attached to all of that.
The painful memory.
Right.
The painful memories of whathappened, the way we felt and saw it.
May it be that way ornot, it doesn't matter.
It's the way I, it felt when I wasa little kid, or you know, a little
boy and something happened to us,and so now we're, you know, it
(10:37):
gets triggered in this relationship
Yeah.
and we start playing it out on each other.
And I just want you to stop doing that.
And if you just stop doingthat, then I'll be okay, right?
But that's not true.
And, go ahead.
Well, we know, we know that is, wetalk about emotional intelligence.
That our wounds, any wounds that we'veexperienced, have two characteristics
(10:59):
that are so important to understand.
Our wounds have no sense of time, whichmeans any wound that we're carrying from
our history doesn't know the differencebetween five years ago, ten years ago,
twenty years ago, yesterday and today.
And that part of us thinks in symbols.
Yeah.
So symbols can trigger it off.
(11:19):
The symbol can be an anniversarydate, the symbol could be a person, it
could be a female, it could be a male,it could be an authority figure, it
could be a number of different things.
Like a real simple, I had a guy thatwas driving from New Orleans and
Baton Rouge one time in college.
Uh, it was raining real hard, flipped thecar and, uh, walked out of it unscathed,
(11:43):
but really could have been killed.
And, you know, fifteen, twenty yearslater, was driving from New Orleans
to Baton Rouge and it started to rainand had an absolute panic attack.
Right.
Now the panic attack wasn't becauseit was raining and he didn't know how
to drive, he's an experienced driver.
It was because the symbol of, itsraining and I'm driving between
(12:06):
New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
And all the pain that he had from theoriginal accident that hadn't really
successfully been dealt with cameup for him and he was having a panic
attack and he didn't understand it.
But I mean, it makes easy sense as I'mtalking about it, but we're talking
about a twenty year difference betweenthe first experience and the second one.
(12:26):
And so we all can have sensitivetriggers that can occur if, If, uh,
they get, the symbol gets activated.
Right.
And that's what happens in relationshipwith, uh, emotional intelligence,
is that we often get activatedabout things that are happening.
But the intensity that we're feelingmaybe is about a symbol in the past.
(12:51):
Right.
And so, you know, if my wife saidsomething that's upsetting to me, or
say she's being controlling and I havethis issue about being controlled.
Now she may deserve out of one toten scale, uh, ten being high, a
reaction that deserves a three.
But because it's a sensitive symbolthat I've had over and over again,
(13:13):
and she's being controlling, all of asudden I'm feeling an eight or nine.
And so instead of a three, she'sexperienced an eight or nine, and she's
saying, Wow, that's quite an overreaction.
I, I just told you towear that shirt, you know?
And, and I'm an eight or a nine.
And okay, well, where's the extrafive or six come from, right?
(13:34):
It comes from my unique historyand it's not about her, it's
only partially about her.
But if I can't calibrate andunderstand the difference,
Right.
it's gonna cause fireworks.
That's good.
Yeah.
I like that a lot because I, I experiencedthat the other day, you know, my
(13:55):
wife and I, we had a disagreement.
And how we handle that, I, I recognizedhow we changed that, you know,
interaction throughout the years.
It used to be very volatile and,you know, just erupt into something
it shouldn't have really quick.
(14:17):
And now it's more I say, No, you'renot allowed to do that to me.
And until you accept what you'vedone and how you approached me,
we can't carry on any furtherwith this argument or discussion.
(14:38):
Let's do it in a way that we canactually sit down, talk, and, and
it's getting easier and easierto go through these past traumas.
Because that's what sparks a lot of thesethings is past traumas and I, I really
(14:58):
think it's very key that we identifythose trigger points that make us upset.
So now as we go through these things,I find myself saying, Hey, let's
stop there, and what caused that?
Let's identify what just caused that.
(15:21):
And I think it's easier ifwe can start doing that, we
can get over it much quicker.
Yeah.
And one of the things that Ialways say is the trigger is an
opportunity to love myself in anarea that didn't get enough love.
(15:41):
Oh, I like that.
Isn't that good?
Because it's like there's awound that has been there, right?
It's, it, it, you know, somethinghappened to us and it's there.
It's not that we don't know it, it'snot that we haven't talked about it,
not that we haven't brought it to thetable, not that it hasn't jumped out of
the closet, all of these things, right?
But when it comes up again, it justmeans, what I see is, it means that
(16:06):
that thing needed, let's say you need athousand, you know, you need a hundred,
you need a hundred pounds of love forthat particular thing to really be healed,
okay?
So over your lifetime, it'smaybe gotten 50%, okay?
And now it comes up again.
It's an opportunity to go in, for my, formy true self, to love the wound itself.
(16:28):
And for me to take this opportunityto love that part of me.
And you know what?
After this incident, I may, that,that wound may only need 40% Now.
I've loved it, I've loved it 60% so far.
And you can't love somethingthat hasn't jumped out, Right?
Or that hasn't gotten like, you know,
(16:49):
Brought to the surface.
yeah, brought to the surface.
So it's like it's an opportunityversus me going, Stop, stop doing
that to me, you always do that to me.
It's because, versus saying, Okay, justlike you said, like, okay, let's look at
this and see where this is coming from.
And it's like I have anopportunity to love myself in this.
And then of course, my partner that lovesme, and I'm taking ownership of this
(17:12):
thing, he may say, Wow, I can really seehow that hurt you and how that triggered
that and I never meant to do that.
And then so he's loving me too in this.
So maybe now it's gone down to 38%,
you know what I'm saying?
But what if it takes till I die for thisthing to get a hundred percent of love?
(17:34):
It's just, I get to love myself.
It's not like this is this horriblething that we all get so afraid of
and that we don't want it to come up.
But it's like all of us deservethe hundred percent of love
that each wound needs to heal.
It's just, you know, me takingthose opportunities to do it.
And for my true self to love my woundedself instead of the protective part
(17:58):
of me saying, You need to stop, stopdoing that or, you know, I'm gonna
drink over this, or I'm gonna smokedope, or I'm gonna run away, or I'm
gonna get a divorce, or whatever
that part says.
I'm gonna leave my whole life behindso I cannot have to feel this feeling
anymore or this wound anymore.
And it's like, it's not gonna happen.
I mean, unless you're gonna like,just like live in your room and be
(18:23):
in contact with no human beings, youknow, it's not gonna happen, right?
I mean, you're going to gettriggered, go to the grocery.
I mean, it's gonna happen.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, and, and I think it'simportant for the males to understand,
especially the young males that might begoing through these things, that we've
(18:45):
got to learn to listen to our wife and,you know, sometimes that hurts our ego.
But when we have those hurts, our egosbeing hurt, isn't that something that
we as males need to look deeper into?
Yeah, definitely.
(19:06):
I definitely think so.
It's that, you know, a relationship'sgonna challenge us both to grow.
And when a couple comes in, you know,I always say that, that if you can take
responsibility to your contribution toany argument, we can work through it.
(19:26):
Because the tendency is to be overlyfocused on what your partner's doing.
And the things can shift when I cansay, What is my reaction, my response,
and how did I contribute to it?
I'm not talking about placingblame and who has blame in this.
Look, it takes two to tango.
(19:49):
And so I think sometimes it's thebiggest challenge for, for, for men,
women also, is to say, okay, like forexample, if, if my wife figuratively,
which she's never done, slap me threetimes and then I slap her back once
and she slaps me three more, in myown mind, she's got six in, I got one.
She deserves at least two or three.
(20:11):
But if we were gonna really work on this,
Right.
I need to take responsibilityfor my one slap.
Say, Honey, that was wrong.
I'm sorry I, I slapped you.
It's her job to work on her six.
But the, the interesting thing is,if I did that, it would actually
(20:32):
increase the chances of her takingresponsibility for her part.
What, what most people don'tunderstand is that the attitude of,
of true repentance actually createsconviction for the other person.
So, to give you another example.
If you, and Ed, and I, you, you and Iwere business partners and we had an
(20:56):
agreement nobody takes money outta thecompany without the others' permission.
And say you take $10,000out and I'm all mad.
I say, I can't believe Ed took itwithout telling me this and that.
And then I take out $2,000 andthen you're mad at me for that.
And we having our own justification.
If I have a meeting with you and Isaid, Ed, you as a business partner mean
(21:20):
so much to me and I made an agreementwith you to not take any money outta
the company without your permission.
And I took $2,000 out of thiscompany and I'm putting it back
because it was wrong, and I'm sorry.
And I asked for your forgiveness.
Now most people would say,that's stupid to do that.
(21:40):
No, no, no, no.
I do that and I walk away, that'sgoing to increase the chances of you
Right.
having your own conviction.
Wow.
He took only 2000, I took 10.
He's sorrowful, he's authentic.
He's expressing how important Iam to the business relationship.
He's taken responsibility for that.
(22:02):
That's actually going to increase thechances of you taking responsibility.
You may not, but I just madeit harder for you not to.
And I'm gonna get a lot more leverageout of that than to cuss you out and call
you a low down dog, and you're a robber,and you're a crook, and this and that.
It, that, that's not gonna get usanywhere, it's not gonna get us anywhere.
(22:24):
So, so I, I do say, and I challengethe young men out there is, take
responsibility for your part.
Have the humility to acknowledgethat, and you actually get closer
to the result that you want.
And I always say that the other thingthat's key in, especially in, in dealing
with disputes is, I've, I've come tounderstand over the years that I really
(22:48):
need to trust my partner's intention.
It's, it's very uncanny how, here'sthe woman that I've been married to
thirty-three years, she's my lover, sheknows everything about me, she has access
to all my bank accounts, she has accessto everything that's important to me.
(23:08):
And in 3.2 seconds, she cango from my friend to my enemy.
You know, just something couldbe said, and all of a sudden
I'm seeing her as an enemy.
Now here's this person and it's, it'scrazy how that can happen to us, but
I think it's really important to, tosay, No, I'm gonna trust her intention.
(23:31):
And her intention wasn'tto hurt me, she loves me.
And I'm not gonna see her as my enemy,I'm just gonna see her as a friend that
did something that was hurtful to me.
And we're not going to squareoff in enemy battle lines.
And if I do that, I can stay, I can keepthe lines of communication open in a way
(23:54):
that potentially can create resolution.
Yeah, I think that's so big.
Uh, you know, Dean, because we,we often want to protect ourselves
and we do that to the personclosest to us for some reason.
And you know, just the other day whenwe had our disagreement, there was
(24:20):
this sense that I was an enemy andwe, we stepped through that because we
recognized, Hey, no, you're, you're theperson here helping, being with me, and
that you got together for that reason.
(24:41):
I'm sure of it.
And we have to remember thoseprecious moments and why we love
each other, because there's no onecloser to you than your partner.
And, and even, I, I like that you tookthat into a business sense and yes, I,
(25:02):
I think every bit of being able to ownup and step up, even though somebody
else may not be willing to, is key toshowing people that there's a better way.
Then when, when we do that,people do, they recognize, Wow.
(25:28):
And it makes them pause,take pause at that.
So I really enjoy hearing that.
Another thing that I, as I researchedyou, limiting patterns, you guys talk
about limiting patterns in our behaviors.
(25:49):
Could you talk to us about that?
Because I think that's pretty important.
Yeah.
In patterns, it's, you know,one of the things is we wanna
understand ourselves, right?
And we wanna see, uh, for me it's alwaysdoing the work, you know, doing the work.
And the, and people arelike, What is the work?
(26:10):
Well, the work is the things, first,you start out with the things that
you don't like about yourself.
Which means, I'm not talking about,you know, if you need a facelift,
like I feel like I do, not that.
I'm not talking about that, I'm nottalking about the physical stuff.
I'm talking about the part of us that,you know, uh, snaps, or the part of us
that's rude, or the part of us that, youknow, says, when we look in the mirrors,
(26:31):
says ugly things to us or calls us stupid.
That part of us that we don'tlike about ourselves is really
starting to understand that part.
How does that part see me?
How does that part see the world?
You know, where, you know, inall my life, how has this part
of me not been nice to others?
And maybe it's just inside my head, okay?
(26:53):
Or has been a yes person,said yes to everybody.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And then I'm aggravated becauseI don't have no time for myself
'cause it's always a yes.
And then really looking at the partof me that is wounded and the way I'm
afraid of things and the things that,you know, that did not go well for me.
People that, people, places, andthings that have hurt me, okay?
(27:16):
So like, really separatingthat out, all right?
And when we do that, we can start tosee the patterns of our life, right?
Is that, why do I keep pickingpeople that aren't nice to me?
Why do I keep havingfriends that never call me?
Why do I have, um, you know, I have a jobwhere my boss doesn't even see me, okay?
(27:38):
Like those types of things.
So it's like you start to see that, okay?
In, in this world who'sshowing up to work, right?
So if I'm showing up to work asthis wounded person, you know,
and that, you know, I feel likeI'm a victim, I start attracting
people that treat me like a victim.
So all of a sudden thispattern keeps happening.
(28:01):
But if I stop and I start to look at myown world, and I start to look at the
things that I don't like about myself,and I start to look at the things of
people, places, the things that hurt me,and I start to dissect that and start
to really give it a voice and see itfor myself, and you know, me knowing
me, then all of a sudden as I givemyself a voice, then I have a choice
(28:23):
on how I want to present myself tothe world, to my job, to my husband,
to my children, to my friends.
And then I start to have avoice that says, I'm somebody.
I, I'm gonna speak up at that nextmeeting, I'm going to make sure that I
tell my friend I need her to call me,you know, once a week I'll call her, she
calls me, or we set up a text where we,we're giving each other some good things.
(28:46):
Where I start to have betterexpectations for myself for
things that are not working, and Istart to have a voice about that.
So I come out of that and I quit livingin those patterns because I start to take
the power back on what's important to me.
Yeah, that's good.
I think the awareness, this,first, you need to have
(29:06):
awareness of your, the patterns.
Yes.
The limiting patterns.
How do you do that?
Well, you know, I ask a simplequestion when I see, uh, either
couples, individuals, first time, Isay, What are three behaviors that you
do when you're stressed out that youwould consider unhealthy behaviors?
And so what I'm trying to get is,what are the survival behaviors?
(29:29):
We all have survival behaviors.
Mine might be to run another person,might be to be real aggressive.
Another person might be to numb out,another, you know, this, we all have
our different coping behaviors, survivalbehaviors, and those survival behaviors
work for us when we develop them.
But over time, theybegin to work against us
(29:50):
and they become limiting to us.
The, the second thing that need,we need to have awareness about is
actually the, the wounds that we'recarrying that haven't been resolved.
We all carry things from our life andour history that become internalized.
(30:11):
And when we're not aware of them,then they take a life of their
own, as HollyKem was talking.
So we have these two parts, wehave our survival behaviors, and
we have our internalized woundsthat haven't been resolved.
And those two things create theunhealthy patterns, the reciprocal
patterns that seem to get us in trouble.
(30:31):
So what we do is we actually help youfirst develop awareness about those,
and we ask questions like I just did.
Or we'll ask questions aboutexperiences that you've had
anytime in your life that have beenchallenging or difficult for you.
And they start to give you certainpatterns that you begin to identify.
(30:51):
And once you know that and youbegin learning to love those
aspects of ourselves, then wecan break out of the patterns.
You know, there was a powerful statementone of our close friends told us,
uh, his name's Pastor Poncho Murguia,he's an extraordinary guy who's
done, he lives in Juarez, Mexico, andhas really done some extraordinary
(31:14):
things to bring peace to that city.
Like he, he did some initiativesin a nineteen month period.
The, uh, murder rate went down 70%in that city, it was extraordinary.
But we were asking him like, Whatwas the key to the success, you know?
And his success, he prayed and hewas getting, getting nudges from
(31:37):
heaven about what to do and so forth.
But he, he said something that was veryprofound, he said, he said, Dean, you
can't change anything that you can't love.
That's right.
If you can't love it, youwon't be able to change it.
And he said, What we started to do wasthat we started to love the people that
(31:59):
were creating so much havoc in our city.
Not that we agreed with them,
Right.
but we started to loveand pray for the Sicarios.
We started to adopt them as our own.
We started to ex, do, you know, justdo things like that and things started
happening, which were extraordinary.
And I was saying, Well, that appliedto a person trying to help a city, but
(32:23):
it's the same thing with ourselves.
The things that we can't learn to loveand embrace in ourselves, not agree with,
Right.
Not empower.
not empower, but if we can lovethose aspects of ourselves that
we deem unlovable, it can actuallycreate a change and a shift.
(32:45):
Yeah.
Love, love the sinner and hatethe sin, I like that a lot.
Right.
Yeah.
I like that a lot.
Yeah.
And that's for in, in our own self.
Yes, exactly.
And, and that emulates out as we do thatbecause those people that are encountering
(33:06):
us as we do that mission work, you know,it, it's important because they feel it.
They know if you're there under falsepretenses, they live it every day so
they know when they're being truly loved.
And I, I think it's important.
(33:27):
Uh, I wanna go back on, you know, Ihave this muddy shoe theory and it's,
you know, life is like a muddy shoegoing down a muddy path and people,
places, and things, that's the mud.
(33:49):
Well, if you've ever walked on a muddytrail, you know how heavy that mud gets.
And sometimes we have to find a rock andjust wipe that off so we can carry down
the trail and not tire ourselves out.
And hopefully, we pick up some mud laterdown that we've already encountered
(34:12):
and we've seen that that mud's madeit down the trail a little further.
The good mud's gonna be in the crevice ofyour shoes, it's gonna be there with you.
You can't get it out of the shoe.
So if we remember that people, places, andthings can weigh us down and we have the
(34:32):
power to wipe that mud off and separateit from us, I think it's powerful.
And I like that, you know, symbolof the muddy shoe carrying good
mud and wiping off the bad mud.
I love that.
Yeah, that's good.
(34:54):
That's very good.
Yes, thank you.
And, and I, I like to share that outbecause it's, it's important and it's a
way that people can actually understandhow devastating, heavy, people,
places, and things can be in our life.
Because that's what makes us tireout and wanna do those drugs, or
(35:19):
be bad people and do bad things.
It's easier that way because we'reso tired of dealing with it all.
Yeah.
And, Ed, that's something that wetalk about a lot is, um, is how do
you get the bad mud off your shoe?
Yeah.
And I think there's two principlesthat Jesus actually taught that were
(35:40):
spiritual principles, but have deeppsychological implications, and it's
how to get the mud off your shoe.
The bad mud is through the twoprinciples of repentance and forgiveness.
And repentance is often seen as repentingbefore God for my behavior, which is a
dimension of it, but repentance also isto have a heartfelt sorrow for the things
(36:05):
that I have done to you or to others.
To take full responsibility forthat and to, to make a commitment
to learn to do it differently.
And so we, we talkedsome about that earlier.
The second principle is forgiveness.
Which is to recognize that I havebeen hurt by things that other people
(36:31):
have done, the mud, the bad mud, andI'm willing to lay that hurt down on
the altar and ask it to be removed.
Now everything has to do withthe condition of our heart.
And, and when I, when in a relationship,we'll use that for an example,
(36:53):
uh, if I don't take responsibility formy behavior and then I never forgive, I'm
gonna have a very hard heart towards my,towards my spouse, towards other people.
If I learn to take responsibility for mypart and I learn to forgive, that's what
(37:13):
softens or gets the mud off of my heart.
Now Jesus said, Repent for thekingdom of heaven is at hand.
He also said, Forgive.
And He said it over and over again.
What He meant, I believe, is that,um, that when we don't repent, well,
(37:33):
when we repent, it ushers in thepresence of heaven into a situation.
It's all around us,it's, it's, it's at hand.
But how do you activate it?
You practice these two principles.
The, the opposite is true too.
Is
if you want hell in a situation,never repent and never forgive and
(37:55):
I promise you'll have lots of hell.
So in the parable to the sowers, Jesussaid, talking about the Pharisees,
Though they have eyes, they do notsee, they don't see spiritually.
Though they have ears, they do not hear.
Why?
Because their heart has grown hardened.
That my ability to connect spiritually,seeing and hearing has nothing to do
(38:20):
with my eyes and ears, but has everythingto do with the condition of my heart.
If I practice these two simple principlesof repentance and forgiveness, then it
opens up my spiritual eyes and opens upmy spiritual ears, and it softens my heart
and it makes me in a position to love.
(38:40):
So I, so when we have couples come in,that's who we say, Look, if you adopt
these two principles of repentanceand forgiveness, we can reconcile
anything in your relationship.
And if you choose not to adoptthese principles, we can guarantee
(39:02):
continued hell in your relationship.
Right.
And so it's really,
I believe that.
Right.
It's really choices, right?
And you were describing, you weredescribing, well, like the mud on
the shoes, that accumulates and itjust hardens our heart and we become
bitter, and we become, uh, angry,and we play out this bitterness on
(39:24):
everybody that we interact with,and it just becomes a horrible
place for us and for other people.
And so there's a formula, you know,uh, Jesus talked about it like that.
You know, the, the twelve step programtalks about it through the steps.
And the steps are all about, aboutrepentance, which is step one, taking
(39:46):
responsibility for my behavior.
Step four, practicing forgivenessand sharing that with another person.
Step five, and Bill Wilson, whofounded AA, understood deeply that at
the root of every unhealthy habit isunforgiveness and unrepentance and fears.
(40:08):
But those are all connected in a, in a,in a trilogy that destroys the heart and
needs to be acted out in unhealthy ways.
That, that's very powerful.
You know, and if, if we learnto accept what we cannot
(40:30):
change, that, that's big too.
And, and a lot of stressors in ourlife comes from those things that
we really don't have control over.
And this was one of my wife's majorthings, she, she had a hard time
letting go of things that, well,you can't do anything about that.
(40:51):
Let's work on something thatwe can do something about.
And, and once we figure that out,I've been working five years to try
to get Theresa on a podcast and, youknow, just the other week I finally
got her to come on a podcast andstart explaining some of these things.
(41:16):
And I think it's, it's importantthat we empower our partner
to share their experience.
Because their experience should beour experience, is that not true?
Yeah, definitely is true.
Is that, you know, as we love one another,I mean, we want to help them become all
(41:41):
that they've intended to be, all thatGod wants them to be, their destiny.
We don't want them to missanything 'cause we love them.
Just like with our children, we wantthem to get, you know, your child
does something and you're like,you know they could do more, right?
So you just keep empowering themand building them up, you know?
And then they do it and it'slike, Yes, I knew it, you know?
It was in you, you know,so yes, most definitely.
(42:03):
I know, like I've been sober for forty-twoyears, uh, January 10th of 83 I got sober.
And, uh, you know, I'vehad to work really hard.
I mean, you know, I would, wouldn'teven hold my head up when I was,
got sober, I had so much shame.
And today, you know, telling my storyand being, you know, doing, you know,
whatever, uh, having no shame, you know,about where I've been, have, you know,
(42:29):
pain about where I've been and done, butin the sense of forgiving myself that if
this could help another person, then I'mgoing to share it if it's appropriate.
And that's growth.
Yeah, I,
I like that.
Yep, that's growth.
Exactly.
(42:50):
Let, let's, uh, segue into some of whatyou offer people, because I'll go on
for hours about these things and notget some of the important things in.
So let's talk about, uh, TransformYou, and also your book, and what
you offer people for services.
(43:12):
Because you've got quite a few, uh,things that people can tap into there.
Yeah.
Well, our, our book is called A Roadmapto the Soul, and it's all about what
we're talking about today is, how toremove the blocks that keep you from
being who you're destined to become.
(43:34):
And those things are our woundsand those are our coping behaviors.
And so the Roadmap is actually a journeyto identify and learn to contain our
coping behaviors, to do some healing workwith our wounds, and to really teach our
true self or who we really are, how tomanage those two parts in a way that it
(43:56):
becomes life giving and not life taking.
And so we do that througha variety of ways.
Our book, A Roadmap to theSoul, is actually a journey.
It has questions, it's exercises, it'suh, it'll take a person through a journey.
But sometimes people read that andsay, Look, we want to go much deeper
than that.
(44:16):
And so that's really where our TransformYou, our online coaching course, it's a
four month course, and it's a combinationof, of really some teaching activation
exercises, experiential exercises.
We do two coaching calls a week,HollyKem and I do those together.
(44:36):
And it's really a comprehensiveexperience from A to Z where a person
goes through a journey and goesfrom, uh, one place to a dramatically
different place, um, by the end.
And it's also for couples.
We've had a number of couples that havedone this process together and I've
had their relationships transformed.
(44:57):
Right.
So it's very, very much of atransformational experience for the brave.
Those that want, wanna do a deep dive andsay, I want more, I want more, and I want
to become who I'm really destined to be.
Yeah.
And I always like to say it's kind oflike, you know, Shaq being a, he's a
professional basketball player, right?
(45:18):
And, but his free throws sucked, right?
And nobody thought anything bad abouthim because he got a coach to help
him be better at his free throws.
It's kind of like LeBron James, he wantedto continue to play basketball past his
thirties and he got a coach to help himslim down, you know, control his food,
(45:41):
his exercise, and get lean so he can stay,you know, at the height of his health.
And everybody like cheers him on.
And it's like, that's what we do.
We take people that want more out of theirrelationships, wants more outta life,
they wanna know how to really,really love the parts of them, and
why they're doing the things they'redoing and, you know, why they're
(46:02):
thinking the things they think.
And, you know, reallytake that and get a coach.
And we, you know, have this whole, youknow, lessons on how to do that and really
become free of who they really are withlove, you know, with true internal love.
And, um, you know, that's, it'sthe process that I used to become
(46:24):
sober still forty-two years, youknow, married thirty-three years.
You know, I was a convicted felon,I was, you know, a nightmare, right?
Uh, divorced before and not knowinghow to communicate, not knowing
how to receive love, not knowingreally how to give love, you know,
and it's allowed me to, you know,
(46:45):
be on this other side.
And then be doing this for thirtyyears and then putting it in a process
where we can really, uh, be a partof the celebration of their life.
And they become, you know, so happywith themselves, you know, and, and see
the results of connections and love.
So it's like awesome.
(47:07):
So to go further with you, do, doyou plan on doing like a retreat
for couples and working withcouples in a retreat type thing?
I, I see that a lot from some good couplesand you guys have that, you know, pizazz.
You guys work well together andI, I think that would really
(47:32):
accommodate well with peopleworking with you together like this.
We ought to, we ought to do, weused to do, uh, weekend retreats
Yeah.
for years
Twenty years.
and then we transitioned to online.
But uh, we ought to do a couple a year,
Yeah.
you know?
Yeah.
We, we're negotiating right nowto possibly go do one out at, uh,
(47:54):
in Los Angeles is a, a place thatwants to bring us out to do one.
So,
Yeah.
I think, uh, I think you're nudging us to,
Yes.
to continue to pursue that.
But, uh,
There you go.
Yeah.
But our website is, ihaveavoice.comand that's the best place to,
to really stay up with us andto see all of those services is,
(48:14):
Yeah.
ihaveavoice.com.
Yeah.
We have a YouTube channel that hasover 200 videos from thirty seconds
to an hour on all subjects andDean's always putting more on there.
And then we have a, a podcast, aTransform You, where we do live
coaching, um, on our podcast.
People come on and we coach them for,you know, anxiety, whatever, you know?
(48:37):
They bring up something andwe coach them live so people
can see what that looks like.
And then our, our book, you can getour book there that connects to Amazon.
And so, yeah.
And then, you know, we do, we dospeaking, we do all kinds of stuff.
So, but we haven't, we don't havea retreat set up at this point,
but obviously God's saying, Hey.
(49:00):
That's the subtle nudgeright there, I like it a lot.
Yeah.
That's the subtle nudge.
We, we, we, we're alwayslistening for them, Ed.
That's right.
You, you have to, and that's part of,you know, being in tune with what's
happening, not against you, but for you.
(49:20):
And, and really that's whatI'm learning how to tune into a
little better each and every day.
Is there anything that we'vemissed that you want to cover?
Well, I would just say thatfor all the listeners that
you are worth doing your work.
Because what you find at the end ofthe work, which is never ending, but
(49:45):
what you find is that you are goodand that you are lovable, and that
you are loving, and you have so muchstill in there that needs to be tapped.
So, you know, you are worth doingthe work, whatever it takes.
Alright.
Well, Dr. Dean and HollyKem, you'rea very powerful entity out there
(50:08):
doing great things for the world.
I commend you.
And I wanna say thank you forsharing with us here today.
Well, thank you.
You're welcome.
Ed, thanks for what you're doing.
Thank you for having us.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(50:32):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
That, okay, in, in this world,who's showing up to work, right?
(00:04):
So if I'm showing up to work asthis wounded person, you know,
and that, you know, I feel likeI'm a victim, I start attracting
people that treat me like a victim.
So all of a sudden thispattern keeps happening.
But if I stop,
(00:54):
Today, we are speaking withDr. Dean and HollyKem Sunseri.
They are the authors of A Roadmapto the Soul, a practical guide to
love, compassion, and inner peace.
They are also the creators of TransformYou, it's an online coaching program.
(01:17):
Could you please introduce yourselves?
And let people know just a little moreabout you before we get started, please.
Yeah, hi.
Well, we are married.
We've been married since July of 91, sowe're at thirty-three years right now.
And we're both life coaches andtherapists and, um, we wrote a book and
(01:42):
we been helping people for a long time.
But today with online you can, youknow, you can reach across and, uh,
do a lot of good stuff in coaching.
So we're excited to be here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did I miss anything?
Well, there's a lot more to be said,but I think that's a great introduction.
(02:03):
Alright.
Well, uh, the thing I like the mostabout you is you guys are out here
doing this work to bring peopleawareness of how to be better people.
Be better couples.
Uh, being a couple is not easy.
My wife and I, we'vebeen together since 1985.
(02:27):
We were married in 85, butwe've been together since 83.
So this is our fortieth yearbeing married in September.
Uh, thank you andcongratulations to you guys also.
It's hard.
As well you know, you, you have to controlso much to have a positive relationship.
(02:51):
Uh, the thing that I really wannaspeak most about is having that
higher power in our relationship.
You are Christian counselorsand you have that faith.
I, I believe that we have tohave higher powers guiding us.
(03:14):
Could you speak to us first about, whatdo you think about having higher powers
guide us in our relationship and listento the small voices speaking to us?
Yeah, I think that's, uh, that'sreal key to a relationship.
You know, if you look at the, uh,Judeo-Christian tradition, the first
(03:36):
story in the Bible was a man andwoman who were together and they
were walking in harmony with God.
And so there's something aboutthat image, I think, that's very
important because really successfulmarriages are not twosomes, they're
actually threesomes in a sense.
And that the first maritalfight on record was after their
(03:59):
disconnection with God occurred.
And so after, after they fell orthey sinned, they were hiding out
together and God was looking forthem and started to question them.
And then basically they got into ahe did it, she did it kind of thing.
And that was the first fight.
But I think that, you know, it's not onlya story, but I think it has a practical
(04:24):
application to the fact that we are meantto walk in fellowship with the higher
power, with God, with Jesus, Holy Spirit.
And that when that's in harmonyand intact, then it makes the
relationship a lot easier.
Another way of looking at it, it is thatwe all are built inside with a conscience.
(04:47):
And I believe the more connectedwe are spiritually, the more aware
of, we are of our conscience.
And that, that consciencewill, will guide us.
You know, if, if I'm disrespectfulto my wife, earlier in my immature
days, my wife would have to correctme and I would say, Oh, well I
didn't mean that, this and that.
(05:08):
But, but as I've grown and grown morein our connection with the Lord, that
if I say something disrespectful to her,I actually have a check in my spirit.
There's something inside of me thatsays, no, you've gone a little too far.
You're going a little too far.
You need to take responsibilityfor that, cut that down.
And all of a sudden it's like I havethis internal teacher that's teaching
(05:30):
me how to, uh, treat, how to speak to.
Now I can't say I alwaysdo it well, but it's there.
And the greater spiritual awarenessthat we have, the greater that voice
is and it actually helps create agovernor and creates a teacher in
our relationship with our spouseand really in all our relationships.
(05:52):
Well, I think too is that for myself,is that, you know, I love Jesus and God
more than I love my husband and I can,
Amen.
I like that.
Yeah, and I can say that he does too.
So what that does is, that mainrelationship, it keeps me, you
know, grounded in the sense of whatis it that I really want on earth?
(06:15):
You know, what, what'sreally important to me here?
And, you know, to win thatparticular argument or to win that
particular, whatever, negotiation,is like, in a negotiation, I don't
want my spouse to be a loser.
Why would I wanna be married to a loser?
You know what I'm saying?
(06:36):
So it's like in the negotiations,I want us both to win, right?
Because I wanna be married to awinner and I hope he doesn't wanna
be married to a loser either.
So if we look at it like that, thenit's like it becomes a negotiation
for us both to win whateverit is we need to negotiate on.
So, you know, when it becomes that we'repartners and it's not like, you know, I'm
(06:58):
the Saints and he's the Falcons, right?
That we're fighting each other andtrying to win this game versus that
we're both on the Saints team, you know?
He happens to be the offense leaderand I'm the defense leader, I'm the
offense leader and he's the defenseleader, that we're on the same team to
negotiate on how we can win whateverit is that we need to negotiate on.
(07:20):
So it becomes a whole differentway of seeing it versus he's my
competitor and he's my, you know,equal, or he's my person that I have
to fight, or my enemy, you know?
He's my friend, he's my, he's mylover, he's my partner, you know?
I like that a lot, I reallythink that that's key.
(07:42):
If, if we understand that we're goingto have disagreements and we don't
have to argue about every disagreement.
And that falls into the emotionalintelligence that we gain by
accepting our failures, ourweaknesses, and even our divisions.
(08:04):
Uh, what do you have to say about that?
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
And, you know, um, I love talkingabout emotional intelligence.
That's what, that was probably the thingthat I'd have to say, I can say that I've
learned the most in sixty-four years ishow to navigate my emotions, how to know
my emotions, how to connect with them,how to speak for myself, or them, how
(08:27):
to understand where they're coming from.
If they're coming from something that'shappened in front of me or something
in front of me is connecting to someold pain that is left in me and then,
you know, how do I handle that versusthe old ways that I used to handle it?
Or even if I hear it in my head, the oldway that I used to handle it, learning
(08:48):
to hear that, but not empower that.
Yeah.
You know, so really what we've learnedon, how to, you know, and what we
teach is how to really look at thatemotional life, love ourselves through
that, and then speak for ourselves.
And not just become it, you know?
(09:08):
And how, you know, how do younot become it is you gotta be
emotionally intelligent, right?
Yeah.
You wanna go there?
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
We've been doing marriage counseling,coaching for over three decades.
What I find, Ed, that's reallyinteresting is that oftentimes the
people are divorcing the wrong person.
(09:28):
In a sense that
they're trying to divorce their ownpainful history that keeps coming up from
them, that's triggered by their partner,but that's who they're trying to divorce.
And if they're not able to successfully,in a sense, divorce outta common peace in
terms with that, then those very thingswill be played out with their partner.
(09:51):
And so sometimes it's like, to myself, Imean, sometimes I'll say like, You, you
might be divorcing the wrong person here.
You know, you divorce the situation.
Now obviously I'm not talking about anabusive situation and something really
tragic is happening and they need toget out, but I'm just saying in general.
Another thing too, to add, that it'snot about divorcing your parents
(10:13):
No.
or the people that hurt you,it's about divorcing the emotion
that's attached to all of that.
The painful memory.
Right.
The painful memories of whathappened, the way we felt and saw it.
May it be that way ornot, it doesn't matter.
It's the way I, it felt when I wasa little kid, or you know, a little
boy and something happened to us,and so now we're, you know, it
(10:37):
gets triggered in this relationship
Yeah.
and we start playing it out on each other.
And I just want you to stop doing that.
And if you just stop doingthat, then I'll be okay, right?
But that's not true.
And, go ahead.
Well, we know, we know that is, wetalk about emotional intelligence.
That our wounds, any wounds that we'veexperienced, have two characteristics
(10:59):
that are so important to understand.
Our wounds have no sense of time, whichmeans any wound that we're carrying from
our history doesn't know the differencebetween five years ago, ten years ago,
twenty years ago, yesterday and today.
And that part of us thinks in symbols.
Yeah.
So symbols can trigger it off.
(11:19):
The symbol can be an anniversarydate, the symbol could be a person, it
could be a female, it could be a male,it could be an authority figure, it
could be a number of different things.
Like a real simple, I had a guy thatwas driving from New Orleans and
Baton Rouge one time in college.
Uh, it was raining real hard, flipped thecar and, uh, walked out of it unscathed,
(11:43):
but really could have been killed.
And, you know, fifteen, twenty yearslater, was driving from New Orleans
to Baton Rouge and it started to rainand had an absolute panic attack.
Right.
Now the panic attack wasn't becauseit was raining and he didn't know how
to drive, he's an experienced driver.
It was because the symbol of, itsraining and I'm driving between
(12:06):
New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
And all the pain that he had from theoriginal accident that hadn't really
successfully been dealt with cameup for him and he was having a panic
attack and he didn't understand it.
But I mean, it makes easy sense as I'mtalking about it, but we're talking
about a twenty year difference betweenthe first experience and the second one.
(12:26):
And so we all can have sensitivetriggers that can occur if, If, uh,
they get, the symbol gets activated.
Right.
And that's what happens in relationshipwith, uh, emotional intelligence,
is that we often get activatedabout things that are happening.
But the intensity that we're feelingmaybe is about a symbol in the past.
(12:51):
Right.
And so, you know, if my wife saidsomething that's upsetting to me, or
say she's being controlling and I havethis issue about being controlled.
Now she may deserve out of one toten scale, uh, ten being high, a
reaction that deserves a three.
But because it's a sensitive symbolthat I've had over and over again,
(13:13):
and she's being controlling, all of asudden I'm feeling an eight or nine.
And so instead of a three, she'sexperienced an eight or nine, and she's
saying, Wow, that's quite an overreaction.
I, I just told you towear that shirt, you know?
And, and I'm an eight or a nine.
And okay, well, where's the extrafive or six come from, right?
(13:34):
It comes from my unique historyand it's not about her, it's
only partially about her.
But if I can't calibrate andunderstand the difference,
Right.
it's gonna cause fireworks.
That's good.
Yeah.
I like that a lot because I, I experiencedthat the other day, you know, my
(13:55):
wife and I, we had a disagreement.
And how we handle that, I, I recognizedhow we changed that, you know,
interaction throughout the years.
It used to be very volatile and,you know, just erupt into something
it shouldn't have really quick.
(14:17):
And now it's more I say, No, you'renot allowed to do that to me.
And until you accept what you'vedone and how you approached me,
we can't carry on any furtherwith this argument or discussion.
(14:38):
Let's do it in a way that we canactually sit down, talk, and, and
it's getting easier and easierto go through these past traumas.
Because that's what sparks a lot of thesethings is past traumas and I, I really
(14:58):
think it's very key that we identifythose trigger points that make us upset.
So now as we go through these things,I find myself saying, Hey, let's
stop there, and what caused that?
Let's identify what just caused that.
(15:21):
And I think it's easier ifwe can start doing that, we
can get over it much quicker.
Yeah.
And one of the things that Ialways say is the trigger is an
opportunity to love myself in anarea that didn't get enough love.
(15:41):
Oh, I like that.
Isn't that good?
Because it's like there's awound that has been there, right?
It's, it, it, you know, somethinghappened to us and it's there.
It's not that we don't know it, it'snot that we haven't talked about it,
not that we haven't brought it to thetable, not that it hasn't jumped out of
the closet, all of these things, right?
But when it comes up again, it justmeans, what I see is, it means that
(16:06):
that thing needed, let's say you need athousand, you know, you need a hundred,
you need a hundred pounds of love forthat particular thing to really be healed,
okay?
So over your lifetime, it'smaybe gotten 50%, okay?
And now it comes up again.
It's an opportunity to go in, for my, formy true self, to love the wound itself.
(16:28):
And for me to take this opportunityto love that part of me.
And you know what?
After this incident, I may, that,that wound may only need 40% Now.
I've loved it, I've loved it 60% so far.
And you can't love somethingthat hasn't jumped out, Right?
Or that hasn't gotten like, you know,
(16:49):
Brought to the surface.
yeah, brought to the surface.
So it's like it's an opportunityversus me going, Stop, stop doing
that to me, you always do that to me.
It's because, versus saying, Okay, justlike you said, like, okay, let's look at
this and see where this is coming from.
And it's like I have anopportunity to love myself in this.
And then of course, my partner that lovesme, and I'm taking ownership of this
(17:12):
thing, he may say, Wow, I can really seehow that hurt you and how that triggered
that and I never meant to do that.
And then so he's loving me too in this.
So maybe now it's gone down to 38%,
you know what I'm saying?
But what if it takes till I die for thisthing to get a hundred percent of love?
(17:34):
It's just, I get to love myself.
It's not like this is this horriblething that we all get so afraid of
and that we don't want it to come up.
But it's like all of us deservethe hundred percent of love
that each wound needs to heal.
It's just, you know, me takingthose opportunities to do it.
And for my true self to love my woundedself instead of the protective part
(17:58):
of me saying, You need to stop, stopdoing that or, you know, I'm gonna
drink over this, or I'm gonna smokedope, or I'm gonna run away, or I'm
gonna get a divorce, or whatever
that part says.
I'm gonna leave my whole life behindso I cannot have to feel this feeling
anymore or this wound anymore.
And it's like, it's not gonna happen.
I mean, unless you're gonna like,just like live in your room and be
(18:23):
in contact with no human beings, youknow, it's not gonna happen, right?
I mean, you're going to gettriggered, go to the grocery.
I mean, it's gonna happen.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, and, and I think it'simportant for the males to understand,
especially the young males that might begoing through these things, that we've
(18:45):
got to learn to listen to our wife and,you know, sometimes that hurts our ego.
But when we have those hurts, our egosbeing hurt, isn't that something that
we as males need to look deeper into?
Yeah, definitely.
(19:06):
I definitely think so.
It's that, you know, a relationship'sgonna challenge us both to grow.
And when a couple comes in, you know,I always say that, that if you can take
responsibility to your contribution toany argument, we can work through it.
(19:26):
Because the tendency is to be overlyfocused on what your partner's doing.
And the things can shift when I cansay, What is my reaction, my response,
and how did I contribute to it?
I'm not talking about placingblame and who has blame in this.
Look, it takes two to tango.
(19:49):
And so I think sometimes it's thebiggest challenge for, for, for men,
women also, is to say, okay, like forexample, if, if my wife figuratively,
which she's never done, slap me threetimes and then I slap her back once
and she slaps me three more, in myown mind, she's got six in, I got one.
She deserves at least two or three.
(20:11):
But if we were gonna really work on this,
Right.
I need to take responsibilityfor my one slap.
Say, Honey, that was wrong.
I'm sorry I, I slapped you.
It's her job to work on her six.
But the, the interesting thing is,if I did that, it would actually
(20:32):
increase the chances of her takingresponsibility for her part.
What, what most people don'tunderstand is that the attitude of,
of true repentance actually createsconviction for the other person.
So, to give you another example.
If you, and Ed, and I, you, you and Iwere business partners and we had an
(20:56):
agreement nobody takes money outta thecompany without the others' permission.
And say you take $10,000out and I'm all mad.
I say, I can't believe Ed took itwithout telling me this and that.
And then I take out $2,000 andthen you're mad at me for that.
And we having our own justification.
If I have a meeting with you and Isaid, Ed, you as a business partner mean
(21:20):
so much to me and I made an agreementwith you to not take any money outta
the company without your permission.
And I took $2,000 out of thiscompany and I'm putting it back
because it was wrong, and I'm sorry.
And I asked for your forgiveness.
Now most people would say,that's stupid to do that.
(21:40):
No, no, no, no.
I do that and I walk away, that'sgoing to increase the chances of you
Right.
having your own conviction.
Wow.
He took only 2000, I took 10.
He's sorrowful, he's authentic.
He's expressing how important Iam to the business relationship.
He's taken responsibility for that.
(22:02):
That's actually going to increase thechances of you taking responsibility.
You may not, but I just madeit harder for you not to.
And I'm gonna get a lot more leverageout of that than to cuss you out and call
you a low down dog, and you're a robber,and you're a crook, and this and that.
It, that, that's not gonna get usanywhere, it's not gonna get us anywhere.
(22:24):
So, so I, I do say, and I challengethe young men out there is, take
responsibility for your part.
Have the humility to acknowledgethat, and you actually get closer
to the result that you want.
And I always say that the other thingthat's key in, especially in, in dealing
with disputes is, I've, I've come tounderstand over the years that I really
(22:48):
need to trust my partner's intention.
It's, it's very uncanny how, here'sthe woman that I've been married to
thirty-three years, she's my lover, sheknows everything about me, she has access
to all my bank accounts, she has accessto everything that's important to me.
(23:08):
And in 3.2 seconds, she cango from my friend to my enemy.
You know, just something couldbe said, and all of a sudden
I'm seeing her as an enemy.
Now here's this person and it's, it'scrazy how that can happen to us, but
I think it's really important to, tosay, No, I'm gonna trust her intention.
(23:31):
And her intention wasn'tto hurt me, she loves me.
And I'm not gonna see her as my enemy,I'm just gonna see her as a friend that
did something that was hurtful to me.
And we're not going to squareoff in enemy battle lines.
And if I do that, I can stay, I can keepthe lines of communication open in a way
(23:54):
that potentially can create resolution.
Yeah, I think that's so big.
Uh, you know, Dean, because we,we often want to protect ourselves
and we do that to the personclosest to us for some reason.
And you know, just the other day whenwe had our disagreement, there was
(24:20):
this sense that I was an enemy andwe, we stepped through that because we
recognized, Hey, no, you're, you're theperson here helping, being with me, and
that you got together for that reason.
(24:41):
I'm sure of it.
And we have to remember thoseprecious moments and why we love
each other, because there's no onecloser to you than your partner.
And, and even, I, I like that you tookthat into a business sense and yes, I,
(25:02):
I think every bit of being able to ownup and step up, even though somebody
else may not be willing to, is key toshowing people that there's a better way.
Then when, when we do that,people do, they recognize, Wow.
(25:28):
And it makes them pause,take pause at that.
So I really enjoy hearing that.
Another thing that I, as I researchedyou, limiting patterns, you guys talk
about limiting patterns in our behaviors.
(25:49):
Could you talk to us about that?
Because I think that's pretty important.
Yeah.
In patterns, it's, you know,one of the things is we wanna
understand ourselves, right?
And we wanna see, uh, for me it's alwaysdoing the work, you know, doing the work.
And the, and people arelike, What is the work?
(26:10):
Well, the work is the things, first,you start out with the things that
you don't like about yourself.
Which means, I'm not talking about,you know, if you need a facelift,
like I feel like I do, not that.
I'm not talking about that, I'm nottalking about the physical stuff.
I'm talking about the part of us that,you know, uh, snaps, or the part of us
that's rude, or the part of us that, youknow, says, when we look in the mirrors,
(26:31):
says ugly things to us or calls us stupid.
That part of us that we don'tlike about ourselves is really
starting to understand that part.
How does that part see me?
How does that part see the world?
You know, where, you know, inall my life, how has this part
of me not been nice to others?
And maybe it's just inside my head, okay?
(26:53):
Or has been a yes person,said yes to everybody.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And then I'm aggravated becauseI don't have no time for myself
'cause it's always a yes.
And then really looking at the partof me that is wounded and the way I'm
afraid of things and the things that,you know, that did not go well for me.
People that, people, places, andthings that have hurt me, okay?
(27:16):
So like, really separatingthat out, all right?
And when we do that, we can start tosee the patterns of our life, right?
Is that, why do I keep pickingpeople that aren't nice to me?
Why do I keep havingfriends that never call me?
Why do I have, um, you know, I have a jobwhere my boss doesn't even see me, okay?
(27:38):
Like those types of things.
So it's like you start to see that, okay?
In, in this world who'sshowing up to work, right?
So if I'm showing up to work asthis wounded person, you know,
and that, you know, I feel likeI'm a victim, I start attracting
people that treat me like a victim.
So all of a sudden thispattern keeps happening.
(28:01):
But if I stop and I start to look at myown world, and I start to look at the
things that I don't like about myself,and I start to look at the things of
people, places, the things that hurt me,and I start to dissect that and start
to really give it a voice and see itfor myself, and you know, me knowing
me, then all of a sudden as I givemyself a voice, then I have a choice
(28:23):
on how I want to present myself tothe world, to my job, to my husband,
to my children, to my friends.
And then I start to have avoice that says, I'm somebody.
I, I'm gonna speak up at that nextmeeting, I'm going to make sure that I
tell my friend I need her to call me,you know, once a week I'll call her, she
calls me, or we set up a text where we,we're giving each other some good things.
(28:46):
Where I start to have betterexpectations for myself for
things that are not working, and Istart to have a voice about that.
So I come out of that and I quit livingin those patterns because I start to take
the power back on what's important to me.
Yeah, that's good.
I think the awareness, this,first, you need to have
(29:06):
awareness of your, the patterns.
Yes.
The limiting patterns.
How do you do that?
Well, you know, I ask a simplequestion when I see, uh, either
couples, individuals, first time, Isay, What are three behaviors that you
do when you're stressed out that youwould consider unhealthy behaviors?
And so what I'm trying to get is,what are the survival behaviors?
(29:29):
We all have survival behaviors.
Mine might be to run another person,might be to be real aggressive.
Another person might be to numb out,another, you know, this, we all have
our different coping behaviors, survivalbehaviors, and those survival behaviors
work for us when we develop them.
But over time, theybegin to work against us
(29:50):
and they become limiting to us.
The, the second thing that need,we need to have awareness about is
actually the, the wounds that we'recarrying that haven't been resolved.
We all carry things from our life andour history that become internalized.
(30:11):
And when we're not aware of them,then they take a life of their
own, as HollyKem was talking.
So we have these two parts, wehave our survival behaviors, and
we have our internalized woundsthat haven't been resolved.
And those two things create theunhealthy patterns, the reciprocal
patterns that seem to get us in trouble.
(30:31):
So what we do is we actually help youfirst develop awareness about those,
and we ask questions like I just did.
Or we'll ask questions aboutexperiences that you've had
anytime in your life that have beenchallenging or difficult for you.
And they start to give you certainpatterns that you begin to identify.
(30:51):
And once you know that and youbegin learning to love those
aspects of ourselves, then wecan break out of the patterns.
You know, there was a powerful statementone of our close friends told us,
uh, his name's Pastor Poncho Murguia,he's an extraordinary guy who's
done, he lives in Juarez, Mexico, andhas really done some extraordinary
(31:14):
things to bring peace to that city.
Like he, he did some initiativesin a nineteen month period.
The, uh, murder rate went down 70%in that city, it was extraordinary.
But we were asking him like, Whatwas the key to the success, you know?
And his success, he prayed and hewas getting, getting nudges from
(31:37):
heaven about what to do and so forth.
But he, he said something that was veryprofound, he said, he said, Dean, you
can't change anything that you can't love.
That's right.
If you can't love it, youwon't be able to change it.
And he said, What we started to do wasthat we started to love the people that
(31:59):
were creating so much havoc in our city.
Not that we agreed with them,
Right.
but we started to loveand pray for the Sicarios.
We started to adopt them as our own.
We started to ex, do, you know, justdo things like that and things started
happening, which were extraordinary.
And I was saying, Well, that appliedto a person trying to help a city, but
(32:23):
it's the same thing with ourselves.
The things that we can't learn to loveand embrace in ourselves, not agree with,
Right.
Not empower.
not empower, but if we can lovethose aspects of ourselves that
we deem unlovable, it can actuallycreate a change and a shift.
(32:45):
Yeah.
Love, love the sinner and hatethe sin, I like that a lot.
Right.
Yeah.
I like that a lot.
Yeah.
And that's for in, in our own self.
Yes, exactly.
And, and that emulates out as we do thatbecause those people that are encountering
(33:06):
us as we do that mission work, you know,it, it's important because they feel it.
They know if you're there under falsepretenses, they live it every day so
they know when they're being truly loved.
And I, I think it's important.
(33:27):
Uh, I wanna go back on, you know, Ihave this muddy shoe theory and it's,
you know, life is like a muddy shoegoing down a muddy path and people,
places, and things, that's the mud.
(33:49):
Well, if you've ever walked on a muddytrail, you know how heavy that mud gets.
And sometimes we have to find a rock andjust wipe that off so we can carry down
the trail and not tire ourselves out.
And hopefully, we pick up some mud laterdown that we've already encountered
(34:12):
and we've seen that that mud's madeit down the trail a little further.
The good mud's gonna be in the crevice ofyour shoes, it's gonna be there with you.
You can't get it out of the shoe.
So if we remember that people, places, andthings can weigh us down and we have the
(34:32):
power to wipe that mud off and separateit from us, I think it's powerful.
And I like that, you know, symbolof the muddy shoe carrying good
mud and wiping off the bad mud.
I love that.
Yeah, that's good.
(34:54):
That's very good.
Yes, thank you.
And, and I, I like to share that outbecause it's, it's important and it's a
way that people can actually understandhow devastating, heavy, people,
places, and things can be in our life.
Because that's what makes us tireout and wanna do those drugs, or
(35:19):
be bad people and do bad things.
It's easier that way because we'reso tired of dealing with it all.
Yeah.
And, Ed, that's something that wetalk about a lot is, um, is how do
you get the bad mud off your shoe?
Yeah.
And I think there's two principlesthat Jesus actually taught that were
(35:40):
spiritual principles, but have deeppsychological implications, and it's
how to get the mud off your shoe.
The bad mud is through the twoprinciples of repentance and forgiveness.
And repentance is often seen as repentingbefore God for my behavior, which is a
dimension of it, but repentance also isto have a heartfelt sorrow for the things
(36:05):
that I have done to you or to others.
To take full responsibility forthat and to, to make a commitment
to learn to do it differently.
And so we, we talkedsome about that earlier.
The second principle is forgiveness.
Which is to recognize that I havebeen hurt by things that other people
(36:31):
have done, the mud, the bad mud, andI'm willing to lay that hurt down on
the altar and ask it to be removed.
Now everything has to do withthe condition of our heart.
And, and when I, when in a relationship,we'll use that for an example,
(36:53):
uh, if I don't take responsibility formy behavior and then I never forgive, I'm
gonna have a very hard heart towards my,towards my spouse, towards other people.
If I learn to take responsibility for mypart and I learn to forgive, that's what
(37:13):
softens or gets the mud off of my heart.
Now Jesus said, Repent for thekingdom of heaven is at hand.
He also said, Forgive.
And He said it over and over again.
What He meant, I believe, is that,um, that when we don't repent, well,
(37:33):
when we repent, it ushers in thepresence of heaven into a situation.
It's all around us,it's, it's, it's at hand.
But how do you activate it?
You practice these two principles.
The, the opposite is true too.
Is
if you want hell in a situation,never repent and never forgive and
(37:55):
I promise you'll have lots of hell.
So in the parable to the sowers, Jesussaid, talking about the Pharisees,
Though they have eyes, they do notsee, they don't see spiritually.
Though they have ears, they do not hear.
Why?
Because their heart has grown hardened.
That my ability to connect spiritually,seeing and hearing has nothing to do
(38:20):
with my eyes and ears, but has everythingto do with the condition of my heart.
If I practice these two simple principlesof repentance and forgiveness, then it
opens up my spiritual eyes and opens upmy spiritual ears, and it softens my heart
and it makes me in a position to love.
(38:40):
So I, so when we have couples come in,that's who we say, Look, if you adopt
these two principles of repentanceand forgiveness, we can reconcile
anything in your relationship.
And if you choose not to adoptthese principles, we can guarantee
(39:02):
continued hell in your relationship.
Right.
And so it's really,
I believe that.
Right.
It's really choices, right?
And you were describing, you weredescribing, well, like the mud on
the shoes, that accumulates and itjust hardens our heart and we become
bitter, and we become, uh, angry,and we play out this bitterness on
(39:24):
everybody that we interact with,and it just becomes a horrible
place for us and for other people.
And so there's a formula, you know,uh, Jesus talked about it like that.
You know, the, the twelve step programtalks about it through the steps.
And the steps are all about, aboutrepentance, which is step one, taking
(39:46):
responsibility for my behavior.
Step four, practicing forgivenessand sharing that with another person.
Step five, and Bill Wilson, whofounded AA, understood deeply that at
the root of every unhealthy habit isunforgiveness and unrepentance and fears.
(40:08):
But those are all connected in a, in a,in a trilogy that destroys the heart and
needs to be acted out in unhealthy ways.
That, that's very powerful.
You know, and if, if we learnto accept what we cannot
(40:30):
change, that, that's big too.
And, and a lot of stressors in ourlife comes from those things that
we really don't have control over.
And this was one of my wife's majorthings, she, she had a hard time
letting go of things that, well,you can't do anything about that.
(40:51):
Let's work on something thatwe can do something about.
And, and once we figure that out,I've been working five years to try
to get Theresa on a podcast and, youknow, just the other week I finally
got her to come on a podcast andstart explaining some of these things.
(41:16):
And I think it's, it's importantthat we empower our partner
to share their experience.
Because their experience should beour experience, is that not true?
Yeah, definitely is true.
Is that, you know, as we love one another,I mean, we want to help them become all
(41:41):
that they've intended to be, all thatGod wants them to be, their destiny.
We don't want them to missanything 'cause we love them.
Just like with our children, we wantthem to get, you know, your child
does something and you're like,you know they could do more, right?
So you just keep empowering themand building them up, you know?
And then they do it and it'slike, Yes, I knew it, you know?
It was in you, you know,so yes, most definitely.
(42:03):
I know, like I've been sober for forty-twoyears, uh, January 10th of 83 I got sober.
And, uh, you know, I'vehad to work really hard.
I mean, you know, I would, wouldn'teven hold my head up when I was,
got sober, I had so much shame.
And today, you know, telling my storyand being, you know, doing, you know,
whatever, uh, having no shame, you know,about where I've been, have, you know,
(42:29):
pain about where I've been and done, butin the sense of forgiving myself that if
this could help another person, then I'mgoing to share it if it's appropriate.
And that's growth.
Yeah, I,
I like that.
Yep, that's growth.
Exactly.
(42:50):
Let, let's, uh, segue into some of whatyou offer people, because I'll go on
for hours about these things and notget some of the important things in.
So let's talk about, uh, TransformYou, and also your book, and what
you offer people for services.
(43:12):
Because you've got quite a few, uh,things that people can tap into there.
Yeah.
Well, our, our book is called A Roadmapto the Soul, and it's all about what
we're talking about today is, how toremove the blocks that keep you from
being who you're destined to become.
(43:34):
And those things are our woundsand those are our coping behaviors.
And so the Roadmap is actually a journeyto identify and learn to contain our
coping behaviors, to do some healing workwith our wounds, and to really teach our
true self or who we really are, how tomanage those two parts in a way that it
(43:56):
becomes life giving and not life taking.
And so we do that througha variety of ways.
Our book, A Roadmap to theSoul, is actually a journey.
It has questions, it's exercises, it'suh, it'll take a person through a journey.
But sometimes people read that andsay, Look, we want to go much deeper
than that.
(44:16):
And so that's really where our TransformYou, our online coaching course, it's a
four month course, and it's a combinationof, of really some teaching activation
exercises, experiential exercises.
We do two coaching calls a week,HollyKem and I do those together.
(44:36):
And it's really a comprehensiveexperience from A to Z where a person
goes through a journey and goesfrom, uh, one place to a dramatically
different place, um, by the end.
And it's also for couples.
We've had a number of couples that havedone this process together and I've
had their relationships transformed.
(44:57):
Right.
So it's very, very much of atransformational experience for the brave.
Those that want, wanna do a deep dive andsay, I want more, I want more, and I want
to become who I'm really destined to be.
Yeah.
And I always like to say it's kind oflike, you know, Shaq being a, he's a
professional basketball player, right?
(45:18):
And, but his free throws sucked, right?
And nobody thought anything bad abouthim because he got a coach to help
him be better at his free throws.
It's kind of like LeBron James, he wantedto continue to play basketball past his
thirties and he got a coach to help himslim down, you know, control his food,
(45:41):
his exercise, and get lean so he can stay,you know, at the height of his health.
And everybody like cheers him on.
And it's like, that's what we do.
We take people that want more out of theirrelationships, wants more outta life,
they wanna know how to really,really love the parts of them, and
why they're doing the things they'redoing and, you know, why they're
(46:02):
thinking the things they think.
And, you know, reallytake that and get a coach.
And we, you know, have this whole, youknow, lessons on how to do that and really
become free of who they really are withlove, you know, with true internal love.
And, um, you know, that's, it'sthe process that I used to become
(46:24):
sober still forty-two years, youknow, married thirty-three years.
You know, I was a convicted felon,I was, you know, a nightmare, right?
Uh, divorced before and not knowinghow to communicate, not knowing
how to receive love, not knowingreally how to give love, you know,
and it's allowed me to, you know,
(46:45):
be on this other side.
And then be doing this for thirtyyears and then putting it in a process
where we can really, uh, be a partof the celebration of their life.
And they become, you know, so happywith themselves, you know, and, and see
the results of connections and love.
So it's like awesome.
(47:07):
So to go further with you, do, doyou plan on doing like a retreat
for couples and working withcouples in a retreat type thing?
I, I see that a lot from some good couplesand you guys have that, you know, pizazz.
You guys work well together andI, I think that would really
(47:32):
accommodate well with peopleworking with you together like this.
We ought to, we ought to do, weused to do, uh, weekend retreats
Yeah.
for years
Twenty years.
and then we transitioned to online.
But uh, we ought to do a couple a year,
Yeah.
you know?
Yeah.
We, we're negotiating right nowto possibly go do one out at, uh,
(47:54):
in Los Angeles is a, a place thatwants to bring us out to do one.
So,
Yeah.
I think, uh, I think you're nudging us to,
Yes.
to continue to pursue that.
But, uh,
There you go.
Yeah.
But our website is, ihaveavoice.comand that's the best place to,
to really stay up with us andto see all of those services is,
(48:14):
Yeah.
ihaveavoice.com.
Yeah.
We have a YouTube channel that hasover 200 videos from thirty seconds
to an hour on all subjects andDean's always putting more on there.
And then we have a, a podcast, aTransform You, where we do live
coaching, um, on our podcast.
People come on and we coach them for,you know, anxiety, whatever, you know?
(48:37):
They bring up something andwe coach them live so people
can see what that looks like.
And then our, our book, you can getour book there that connects to Amazon.
And so, yeah.
And then, you know, we do, we dospeaking, we do all kinds of stuff.
So, but we haven't, we don't havea retreat set up at this point,
but obviously God's saying, Hey.
(49:00):
That's the subtle nudgeright there, I like it a lot.
Yeah.
That's the subtle nudge.
We, we, we, we're alwayslistening for them, Ed.
That's right.
You, you have to, and that's part of,you know, being in tune with what's
happening, not against you, but for you.
(49:20):
And, and really that's whatI'm learning how to tune into a
little better each and every day.
Is there anything that we'vemissed that you want to cover?
Well, I would just say thatfor all the listeners that
you are worth doing your work.
Because what you find at the end ofthe work, which is never ending, but
(49:45):
what you find is that you are goodand that you are lovable, and that
you are loving, and you have so muchstill in there that needs to be tapped.
So, you know, you are worth doingthe work, whatever it takes.
Alright.
Well, Dr. Dean and HollyKem, you'rea very powerful entity out there
(50:08):
doing great things for the world.
I commend you.
And I wanna say thank you forsharing with us here today.
Well, thank you.
You're welcome.
Ed, thanks for what you're doing.
Thank you for having us.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(50:32):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
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