March 5, 2025 • 43 mins
In this riveting episode of the Dead America Podcast, host Ed Watters welcomes Aiden Gabor, author of Conflicting Loyalties, to delve into his extraordinary life journey. From his challenging childhood shaped by mob influences to his role as a feared mob enforcer, Aiden unravels the compelling decisions that ultimately led him to become a crucial Department of Justice (DOJ) informant. With raw honesty, he shares the struggles of navigating personal respect, loyalty conflicts, and a battle with alcoholism, as well as the redemption he found through spirituality and a supportive second marriage.
This episode is not just a tale of transformation but a powerful lesson for young listeners. Aiden explores the consequences of his choices, highlighting the value of standing up for justice, overcoming personal struggles, and finding purpose in life’s second chances. His story is a testament to resilience, courage, and the ability to forge a new path, no matter how daunting the circumstances.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
To overcome, you must educate.
Educate not only yourself, buteducate anyone seeking to learn.
We are all Dead America,we can all learn something.
To learn, we must challengewhat we already understand.
(00:27):
The way we do that isthrough conversation.
Sometimes we have conversations withothers, however, some of the best
conversations happen with ourselves.
Reach out and challenge yourself; let'sdive in and learn something new right now.
(00:55):
Today we are speaking with Aiden Gabor,he's the author of Conflicting Loyalties.
Aiden is an ex mob enforcerturned DOJ informant.
Aiden, could you pleaseintroduce yourself?
Let people know just a littlemore about you, please.
(01:16):
How you doing?
My name is Aiden Gabor.
Um, I grew up in a pretty screwedup, uh, my childhood and life.
Um, introduced myself as, you know,I started off with working with a
crew and eventually worked for theDOJ for taking on bad police officers
and politicians and then finding mylove and finding my spiritual journey
(01:39):
throughout the process of it all.
Or somebody that was extremely antireligious become religious at the
end.
Yeah, I find your story very interesting.
Let's start off withyour early life, Aiden.
It's remarkable how you were youngand you were kind of forced into this
(02:05):
by the DOJ to become an informant.
But those early years, whatwere those like for you?
Um, I'm gonna be honestwith you, it was awesome.
Uh, my dad was an associateand with a Capo in hand.
I would start out nine, ten years old,we would have gatherings, just barbecues
(02:26):
without, Our mothers and grandmothersfrom the old country would come in
and cook and we would have everythingand we would, you know, we didn't,
we learned at early age, respect.
If you were asked to getsomething, get it for them.
Um, you know, I mean, I was, uh, big formy age and I would get in those scuffles
(02:46):
outside with boys that were five, sixyears older than me and I would beat up a
couple of them or, you know, get beat up.
And in early years of, you know, a coupleof times we'd be wrestling or fighting
on this gravel, and, uh, got cut up.
A cop showed up becausethere had, you know, somebody
complained about kids fighting.
And I'm like, you know, like,you know, Aiden, come on
(03:08):
over, tell us what's going on.
I'm like, Get the hell outof here, we're wrestling.
And I was getting my ass handedto me, I was getting beat up.
And I just told them to get out.
And, uh, they're like, come on now,you know, we know who, I don't know,
and then they leave, and we go inside.
And one day, Eddie, the Capo, heasked me, Hey, can you stop by
uh, my, the shop?
(03:28):
He had a little shop, there was acar, like, you know, a mechanic shop.
There was also like a little socialclub and stuff they had in there and
eventually I learned later on in life thatwe had other things going on in there.
And I showed up, I rode my bike, andhe's like, Hey, will you take this
package and take it to this place,drop it off, don't talk to anybody,
(03:51):
don't stop, um, and do not look in it.
I said, Yes, sir. And I took thepackages and I would bring it to people.
And I, you know, as you, after time,after doing this several times, I come
back, you give me money, twenty, thirtybucks, I would run into the candy
store with my buddies and I'd be king.
You know, we would get thirtydollars worth of candy.
(04:13):
And back then, that was a lot of candy.
And I did this for a while,and eventually, you know,
you recognize these people.
And as I got older, I worked my way up.
Eddie saw something in me.
And I started cleaning in thestore, did a little like, um, got to
where I wasn't dropping something.
I'd sweep the store, take garbage out.
(04:34):
You know, I got into a couple scuffles
with a couple guys in there, and,cause they treated me like shit.
And, um, and I wasn't, Iwas one not to take it.
And so I just worked my way up, andeventually Eddie saw something in me.
So we had a guy there, they putin the book, his name's Nicky.
And Nicky taught me how to use a gun,how to use an ice pick, on how you
(04:59):
put the, I mean, back there, you putthis right in the back here, right?
And you can do this, and, and he toldme, With an ice pick, you could stab
somebody five or six times really quick.
Run away, leave it in,it doesn't leave prints.
Never more worried aboutthat, you can get away.
And at that time, I'm thinkingthere's something wrong with this guy.
And taught me how to drive, you know?
(05:21):
Here I am doing all this and they, I,Eddie just saw something in me and, and
eventually I worked my way up to, we go, Ilearned that we were collecting from like
little mom-pop places and little shops.
I started doing thatwith a guy named Dominic.
And Dominic and I reallycared for each other.
(05:41):
First time I met Dominic, hepushed me really hard into the
wall to get out of the way.
And I grabbed, uh, a broom handle,I hit him with it, and then he
hit me and he turned with a gun.
And Eddie's like, No, no, stop,
this is, uh, you know, Gabor's kid.
And they're like, Oh.
And he walked away.
(06:02):
And the first time I went withDominic, we're in the car, and I'm
in the passenger seat, he punchesme as hard as he can in the face.
And it was like, you know, you feelthe, like blackness, and all that.
He's like, That's for when you hitme, we're not even, but you know,
that's, that's what you get, you know?
Don't start your shit.
(06:23):
Anyway, I learned how to collect, andthen I, I, I became an enforcer of people.
Because there's gambling, there'sprostitution, I wasn't allowed
to go by the prostitution becauseI was an adolescent, you know?
With girls, I was learning aboutgirls at the time, and they, yeah,
they didn't want me to go by that.
And so we ran numbers, weloaned money, and we collected.
(06:48):
And then they had a chopshop, that was a big thing.
The biggest thing withEddie was a chop shop.
And I learned how to steal cars.
And I did that.
My first car I stole, I was fifteen.
And first of all, when the second, orthe second time I stole a car, some clown
came up to me to ask me what I was doing.
He's gonna call the cops.
And I kind of tuned him up a little bitand left and never heard anything on that.
(07:11):
And then I, I was enforcing.
And there was a couple of times,I mean, my most remembered time
was we were sitting at a, um, delioutside and this guy is walking
by and Eddie goes, Hey, that, thatmotherfucker owes me twenty grand.
Or I forget what he said, ten or twenty.
(07:32):
And I just started running and I would goup to the guy and I'm like hitting him.
And I start kicking the crapout of him this time and
he's like, Whoa, whoa, chill.
And then I'm beating him, beating thecrap out of him and I'm like, You better
get back or it's going to get worse.
And he looked at me, he goes,You're eating your sandwich.
And I'm looking and I'm going, Yeah, itwas a good corned beef, that wasn't a
(07:53):
sandwich, I love, this thing's great.
But you just beat up a guy eatingyour sandwich, are you kidding me?
He's like, You get the fuck back,Joe, you know, go back there.
And he looked at him and he'stelling Eddie this, and he goes,
Well good, we'll call him Sandwich.
And I thought, to thisday I hate that name.
I became Aiden Sandwich.
Come on, I hate, I hated that name.
(08:15):
And that's what they gave meand that's what I ran with.
And I did all that.
I did all the way up till I was almosteighteen going on nineteen, actually
nineteen going on twenty I shouldsay, because I was a little late.
And the next thing I know, you know, Iwas collecting, I, I, I enforced, did
everything I was supposed to do, beat up,I got stabbed a couple times doing this.
(08:40):
Um, I, uh, I, I, all of a sudden,Eddie comes to me and says, Hey,
the FBI just arrested Dominick,they took Nick, Nick, I think Nick
got away, I think Nick took off.
And anyway, he's like, I'm leaving.
You need to, Hey, you've got tochange, they're going to arrest you.
And you've got a chance to go play collegefootball, go make something of yourself.
(09:04):
And I'm, I wasn't planningon it and I'm like, uh, Okay.
Cause you gotta go becauseyou have prior offs here.
So basically we're done.
So basically the whole, whole thingwent down for that and I, I went to
school and that's, that, that was theend of my first part of my life or
the early part when I worked with,uh, I was running with the crew.
(09:27):
Yeah, that's a lifestylethat many people fear.
But as you live in that lifestyle of crimeand that activity, it really, it makes
you a different person that's for sure.
Uh, growing up in the seventies myself, Iremember when Rico came out and, you know,
(09:52):
the big cases during the eighties withRico, uh, everyone was terrified at that
point because it was guilt by association.
And, you know, everybody was friendlyat that time and everybody knew
everybody, it was a different time.
And I really think that duringthat timeframe of fear, things
(10:18):
really shifted in the, not onlyloyalties, but communities.
They, they buttoned up per se.
What do you think about that, Aiden?
Oh, absolutely.
You know, you know, we had, youknow, we worked with the gang, so
there was no, the crime was nothing.
(10:39):
Um, you know, they, like, youknow, we were told, Eddie's
like, We don't do drugs.
And I can't say the exact words,but he said, Let the gangs give to
their, their own community, you know?
And, but in different words.
And we worked like, we'd get apercentage and we did something,
we didn't poach, you know?
(11:00):
We, we, we, we worked kind of together.
And it was safe back then,there was no problems.
You know, everything was, youcould walk the streets at any
time, um, there was respect.
You know, that was what I loved aboutit, the respect part of it, you know?
Through everything, you know, I'm goingthrough, yeah, the minute Rico came in,
(11:23):
I was the same time frame, and as soon asthat came in, yeah, it changed everything.
That's what happened to us.
You know, FBI just cameand cleaned the house.
And they hurt more, I think morecommunities, yes, where we get money
from the people, but they were safe.
You know, once all that ended, itbecame a free for all, you know?
(11:43):
Um, and that's because, you know, thegovernment wants it on the table or not.
It's, the government wants their money.
They're not getting money out of this.
And that was the wholething I'm looking at.
I mean, the crime part, you'regoing to get that all the time.
But it's the greedy part of thegovernment, and that's my thinking of it.
But, you know, I just, Ijust, I don't understand.
(12:07):
You know, I mean, you're right.
The RICO law was, you don't haveto do anything, you just have to be
associated with somebody and that was it.
Yeah, that, that was a big, big pointin, in my history that I remember vividly
because I remember the fear that ranthrough myself because of my activities.
(12:29):
And it's the same thing, my familybelieved in taking care of business.
If you wronged, well, you're going to findone of us at your door or in your bedroom.
And, you know, it's justhow we handled things.
My brother, you know, that just passedaway recently, uh, he, he spent many
(12:55):
years in prison for using a hatchet onsomebody instead of the baseball bat.
You know, the severity of these crimes,you know, that fear that came in,
it really did take a lot of that andput it on the back burner, per se.
Because I remember it was prettyopen back then, you know, you,
(13:22):
you knew who you were dealing withbecause they demanded that respect.
And
you talk quite a bit about respectin your interviews and I, I love this
portion because I really think that'swhat we're lacking today is respect.
My, my mother and my fatherinstilled in us, you, you don't
(13:48):
hit a woman, you respect thewoman, you respect your elders.
And, you know, I really miss thosetimes and I think a lot of what
occurred in our legal streamsreally screwed the family up.
And then, then you got into everyonecalling the cops on everyone and it
(14:14):
really divided the families in a way.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, you know, respectgrowing up, that was it.
You know, um, family respect,that was the way it went.
And nowadays there is no, thesekids nowadays have zero respect.
You know, I get in trouble in my oldage dealing with these kids nowadays.
(14:34):
They talk their shit and I'm not one,I really didn't take too much crap.
And you're right, wetook care of business.
If you, if you wronged familyand or close friends, you're
expecting my happy face to show up.
And, and, what I used to sayis, I go, Did, Jerry, you beat
up these people, you did this.
(14:54):
You know, yeah, I used a baseballbat, but we weren't kinky.
We weren't rocket scientists, we,we, we used what we had at hand.
And the best thing I learned is havea baseball bat, put a mitt and a
ball in your trunk and you cannotbe arrested because you have a
baseball, I am ready to play baseball.
Let me talk.
And I used to, yes, I used a baseballbat, I like hitting the ankles.
(15:17):
Because when you hit those feet,you hit the tires, they go down.
When you hit the knees,
they only kind of, they might beable to get up, it's going to hurt.
Hit them in the ankles, they're onthe ground and you got total control.
And that, and it made a different sound.
I liked it.
And that, that was me growingup, I'm going to admit to it.
And, um, you know, I did other things,but you were one of the family.
(15:39):
And most of the time, if you see my happymug showing up at your place, it wasn't
because I picked you out just randomly.
It's because you didsomething for me to be here.
You borrowed money and didn't pay itback, you did something, you know?
And everybody talks about differentcrews, don't, you know, we did violence
mostly against other crews becausethey're poaching in our territory.
(16:02):
You know, if you're going to go poachin somebody else's territory, do some
business, you better have a good reasonor you're going to pay the consequences.
And that's like nowadays, there isno consequences for what you do.
There is no respect.
There is, and that's the way these kidsare nowadays, they're little shits.
And I, I, yeah, big respect.
You know, like I say everytime, I have never said a word
(16:25):
against anybody I ran with.
Anybody in the crew.
I never did anything against them.
If they were to ask me, I wouldhave told them to get fucked.
But I did things against bad policeofficers and bad politicians.
That was what, yes, didI inform against them?
Absolutely.
But I grew up seeing these people and theywere supposed to be protecting people.
And then in the second part of life, whenthe DOJ came up and gave me that lovely, I
(16:50):
wouldn't say ultimatum, they had basicallya deal I couldn't refuse at the time.
That, yeah, you know, eventuallyI figured I'm doing good.
You know, but I did miss my younger life.
I enjoyed doing it because wehad respect in the neighborhood,
(17:10):
the neighborhoods were safe.
People said, Hey, how you doing?
You know, we, you know, you got alot of shit free, but you also had,
like I said, the respect thing.
Yeah, I like that a lot.
And it really appealed to mewhen I seen this come across
the desk for the first time.
Uh, the title of your book, you know,it suggests conflicting loyalties.
(17:36):
Is your loyalty still conflicting ordo you have a better grasp on your
ideas and who you are and what you are?
You know, I do now.
I think spiritually helped me.
But when the conflicting loyalties partmostly came in is, you know, when the
DOJ came up and used that Rico thingagainst me, they're like, This is a new,
(18:01):
you know, when they show me picturesof my mother, my father, you know, when
they show pictures of me and my fatherwith Eddie and a bunch of other guys,
I didn't care.
But when they show me my mother andsay my mother's going to go to jail,
if I, unless I did it, that, thathit me because I'm a mama's boy.
I was, my mom is past.
And they said, Hey, have youever heard this law called RICO?
(18:24):
Well, no, I was young,it's a new law out there.
Because you're a college boy,go look it up in the, in the,
in the library, you know?
Back then, 70s, you didn't have that shit.
So I went and found out what it was.
I'm like, Holy shit.
And that, I'm sorry, that's, that wasmy, it killed me the first time I said,
(18:45):
Yes, I'll do what you need me to do.
And, you know, these two clowns hadme, you know, infiltrate a police
department to find a police officer.
The first one was a hit man.
And what happened with the conflictingloyalties part is, when you become law
enforcement, after I started, you geton the academy, and you go through,
there's a thing called the blue line,as you start going in law enforcement.
(19:09):
And it's this blue line, almostlike we had, where you don't talk
about your brothers and sisters.
If you see something, kindof keep it to yourself.
You know, that type of deal.
Unless it's extremely bad.
But my conflicting loyalties partwas, as I'm doing all of this, I'm
thinking to myself, Am I betrayingmy brothers and sisters in blue?
(19:33):
And my first, when I first started doingit, the first one I went after, it took
me over a year and I became a drinker.
And I drank, but I became agulper, I guess you could say.
That's the way this this, idiotwas . And after I put away, when they
got me to work in the department Igrew up in, and since I remembered the
politicians, the commissioners, and
(19:55):
the officers that I saw as a kid takingthe, taking the money, telling them what's
going on, doing some very bad crimes.
And for, for Eddie that, I thought, youknow, like I said, the DOJ came to me.
It wasn't to be undercover,it was just as an informant.
I didn't have backup so I had todo all this and no tell anybody.
(20:17):
Don't you say a word to your parents,don't say a word to your wife or anybody.
Or if you do, you go.
That's it.
The deal's off, you're going to jail.
And, you know, as you become adrinker, it started getting to me.
I started seeing hallucinationsof St. Michael with the
flaming sword coming at me.
He said, I betrayed and slicing at me.
(20:37):
And in that time frame, in that timeframe, I started becoming an alcoholic.
But then I started getting those benders.
And I remember waking up, and I remember,was I hallucinating about putting a
round in the chamber of 357, spinningit, and putting it to my head, and
(20:58):
pulling the trigger, or putting itunderneath my chin, pulling the trigger?
And I know of at least 200 orso times I did it remembering.
And times I wake up with two or three inthe, in, in the gun laying on the floor
next to me, thinking I do this over athousand times, trying to kill myself.
And, you know, later, life I'mlearning to God, didn't want me to die.
(21:21):
You know, and my conflicting loyaltiespart was, I'm conflicting against
my brothers and sisters in blue.
I'm taking note of bad policeofficers, that was a part.
The politicians, I didn't give a shit.
But going against police officers,am I going against the guys?
Because as you walk in theirshoes as a law enforcement, and
(21:44):
you know, I still did the job.
And you get to see, dealing with, whatthey would deal with every day in life,
you know?
Um, and people don't understandthis, let's defund them.
They don't do, are you kidding me?
What these men and women do.
It's like the military, why thesepeople treat the military personnel
(22:04):
the way they do, law enforcement,first responders, you know?
What these men and women do for you.
You know, I always talked, I'vetalked to many military people and,
you know, this is what they get.
They train, kill, kill, kill,train, kill, kill, kill.
It's all done with go back and bea normal person in society after
(22:24):
you've seen and did what you did.
Seriously?
That's how I look at it.
Why do these people have mental, I mean, Ididn't see the carnage they may have seen.
Have I seen carnage?
Yes.
But have I, you know, been involved?
Yes.
But not the same way theseguys were, and I was very young
when I did a lot of this stuff.
(22:45):
And in law enforcement, you see it.
You see the abuse, you see themurders, you see everything.
And some people can't take thatmentally, and I understand it, but they
want you to be a normal, functioninghuman being after your shift is
over, or after your tour is over.
And my conflicting, like I said, myconflicting loyalty was that, you know?
(23:06):
And I became a bad alcoholicand my buddy Don and Sam saved
my ass with the alcoholism.
Well, thank God for Don and Sam.
You know, it is, it's interesting youbring this up about law enforcement.
You know, my whole family wascriminal to the T. But I,I,
I really don't get into that.
(23:29):
I really looked at what was happeningand I kinda got sick because of it.
And then interestinglyenough, I met my wife.
I was seventeen years old and shewas a Christian and she kind of
(23:49):
stepped in and changed who I was.
And my life hasn't beenthe same ever since.
And I heard that you found thatsame type of experience with your
second wife, is that correct?
Yes, yeah.
I was, you know, I was extremely,I mean, I was an asshole.
(24:12):
I was not a great person.
My first wife, I was not a great husband.
I was not a great father.
I didn't believe in religion.
I was, I used to joke, Iwork for the other guy.
I collect souls.
And I met her and she, she, you know,she looked at me and accepted me.
And then, you know, we would go out.
And the first several days, I,you know, I had a friend of mine
(24:34):
say, Hey, you need to go out.
She wants to go out with you.
I go, Seriously?
Why would she want to go out with me?
He goes, I don't know.
She thinks you're funny.
You know, I joke around with everybody.
And I said, All right,I'll go out with her.
And it was just one of those clicks.
Ed, I'm going to be telling youthat this is kind of a funny story
is, we went out, I didn't pay foranything on the first eight dates.
(24:58):
She thought, she probablythought I was some kind of scam.
Like, we joke about this now.
But she said, she liked me, we went out.
I always had an excuse, I was goingthrough a divorce, I was, and you
know, she, cause I felt bad for you,and then eventually you're like a
fungus, I couldn't get rid of you.
And, and, she, she understands,she accepted me for who I
(25:23):
am, and who, what I was.
And, you know,
she may have not gotten me when I wasyounger in my prime and fit and all this.
You know, I got ALS,I'm, uh, falling apart.
I was shot a couple of times.
I mean, she's getting the, the, the,uh, used car part, and she accepted it.
(25:43):
And, you know, the funniest thingabout her is, when I started in law
enforcement, I was a young officer, Iarrested a sixteen year old at a bar.
I bring this person to jail.
She's in the backseat, kind ofcrying, but kind of being a bitch.
(26:06):
And I'm trying to talk to her,she's really not talking to me.
So, at that time, I took herpicture, took her prints.
And back then, I was making my extrasentence set for my own files to say,
you know, we get, you know, keep yourown files in case something happens and,
you know, kind of like getting trouble.
You know, I arrested her whenshe was sixteen years old.
(26:30):
And then we met againlike fifteen years later.
It's one of those synchro, I didn'trealize it till her uncle said
something to me about, Hey, um, hey,I was, she got arrested at that town.
I'm like, Seriously?
She's like, Yeah!
We used to live there years ago!
(26:52):
I remember that!
And, and, and she's explainingit to me, so I looked it up,
and sure enough, it was me!
I was like, so what's that, synchranikra?
Whatever the hell they call it.
Yeah, so, that's where I met her,but she, she just understood me.
And to this day, sheaccepts me for what I am.
And, you know, we click.
(27:13):
We talk every day, we talk every day, ofcourse, but we talk as much as we can,
and we still say I love you every morning.
And my first wife was like,you know, Satan's daughter.
And that's how I used to joke,I married Satan's daughter.
Because she was, shewas just a mean bitch.
But yeah, you're right.
I'm glad yours is like this too.
You know, except for a few quirks,even though you may be, you know, a
(27:36):
little bit out there, they accept you.
It's a beautiful thing whenyou find the right woman.
And, and it's, it's interestinghow they don't really change you,
I think you really change together.
You know, that, that's the big thing.
Writing a book Aiden, you,you talk about it being therapy.
(27:59):
And I find podcasting therapybecause I, I really don't have the
talent yet to finish and completea book, but I'm, I'm seeking that.
So, so do you, talk to us aboutthe therapy end of releasing
this through a book or even thesepodcasts that you are doing.
(28:24):
You know, I, I, what happenedonce, I was having night
terrors and I still have them.
And I was swinging, I was throwingmy wife around, I was punching the
wall, I was punching at some, andshe called Don and Sam and said, Hey,
you guys, this is what he's doing.
And they came out andthey flew down and saw me.
And Don was like, You know,dude, come on, you know?
(28:47):
You need to look at this.
And you need to maybelook at some religion.
I'm like, Go to hell.
And Sam looks at me.
And he goes, You need to listento Sam, like, read these books.
And Don's like, I gotta go.
We're talking about it,you know, what's going on.
He was here for a couple days.
Sam stayed for a couple weeksand he's like, Read this.
(29:08):
And there was a Ba'bBahá'í, the Bahá'í faith.
And I'm like, I don't likereading, but okay, I'll read this.
And then we started talking and then, henever knew, you know, I grew up with Sam,
I mean, we grew up in the neighborhood,we grew up, he never knew this shit.
He goes, I always wrote it off,but, but I knew your dad did work
for, I didn't know you were going.
(29:28):
And he's like, Well, no.
And him and I talked about, you know,life, because I knew a lot, he goes, Yeah,
I remember some things happening whenwe were there, and we were like, Wow.
And he goes, Your life screwed up.
I go, Gee, thanks, I love hearing that.
And he's just like, Youneed to write a book.
I go, Go to hell.
I ain't writing this book.
I don't want to because if youcould therapeutically get it all
(29:49):
out, I go, I'm going nuts now.
He goes, Yeah, but you get it all out.
And yes, I wrote the book.
It took a couple yearsbecause it's a memoir.
Oh, I forgot about that, oh,yeah, you know, did I have this?
Oh, you know, we also did that, you know?
You remember little parts here and there.
And yeah, I wrote the bookand, and he's like, isn't it
(30:13):
helping you therapeutically?
I'm like, No!
It's not.
But yeah, it is.
You know, it's one of those yes and no's.
And he said, You know, do a podcast.
Yes, it's helping me.
Am I having as many night terrors?
And no, I'm not, which is surprisingme because I'm remembering more
and more of the stuff I did.
I didn't want to rememberboth then being a criminal and
(30:36):
both being in law enforcement.
You know, I always jokedthat I was in the dark.
I was in the shadows, my young life.
And I was in the mediumshadows growing up.
And eventually when I foundthe Baha'i faith, I came out
of the dark into the light.
And realized, Whoa, you know, the Baha'ifaith, men and women are exactly equal.
(30:59):
Where in some Catholic faiths,the men, the woman is subservient
to the man, you know, in theBaptist race, you know, faiths.
And every, I believe everyone'sequal, I've always believed that.
And there's a lot of things that Baha'isbelieve, but I'm like, Well, yeah,
everybody bleeds red, you know, whetherthey're white, pink, black, purple, green.
(31:20):
We all bleed red.
We bleed a different color,we got some problems.
And that's how I, that's,that's what I believe in.
And Sam looked at me and goes, So youwere always a Baha'i your whole life.
You just didn't know it.
And so I started reading and one day I'msitting outside, you know, and I get this
(31:42):
one, I'm reading Baha'u'llah's writing,and I look up, I get this feeling in me
and I'm like, I'm looking at the sun, it'shot out, and I'm thinking, it's got, it's
gotta be getting sunstroke or something.
I'm going in.
My wife's like, Serena'slike, What's going on?
I go, I don't know.
There's something inside me, I'mreading Baha'u'llah's writings.
I got this feeling and all thatfucking bullshit, I hate it.
(32:04):
And she's like, You're getting spiritual.
I go, Go to hell.
I'm not getting spiritual here.
This is, I hate this feeling.
Oh, no, that's what you're getting.
And I kept reading, you know?
She's, and then she started, I, I'm not agreat reader so she started reading to me.
And she's like, See?
And then the Baha'i faith, there'sa thing called Ruhi, a Ruhi
(32:27):
class, which is a Bible class.
So for three years, my wife did theseRuhi classes with me twice a week, one
hour twice a week, two hours a week.
And she did it,
she went through it, readit, did everything with it.
But she never converted from herCatholic or, you know, Christian
beliefs to, you know, a Bahai.
(32:50):
Even though I did.
But she stayed with me to help me read,to help me understand for three years.
She never, and after we talked aboutour wives understanding us and helping
us, um, that right there showed a lot.
And then me learning spiritually,you know, and I always joke that, you
know, God never let me kill myself.
(33:12):
I tried, as many times.
I got stabbed.
I got shot.
God said, Yeah, you ain't dying.
But God's got a sense of humor.
Because I went through all this shit,and now I got, and now I got ALS.
So He's like, Yeah, guess what, sunshine?
The best is yet to come for you.
So, I get it.
(33:32):
You know, He's got a sense ofhumor, and, and, and I accept it.
And I used to be, I didn't care if I died.
I didn't care if I died, at all.
Now I want to live becauseI've learned to help people.
I've actually, which I neverthought in a million years, I
do a lot with Special Olympics.
With these special needs men and women.
(33:54):
I mean, they're not kids,they're men and women.
But my God, if the world cansee through their eyes, because
they just want to hug you.
Oh, there's Aiden.
Oh, there's my friend.
And they come up, Aiden, oh, they don'tcare about what I did as a living.
They just care.
I'm their, their friend.
You know, they understand if youhurt that man, that person hurt me,
I don't like them.
(34:14):
They understand when they get hurt.
But they understand, Hey,this is a nice person.
I like them.
And I love that.
It's like, you know,it's just a warmth I get.
And I love helping and I love doingthe Special Olympics and seeing,
these kids are never going tobe Olympians, but yes, they are.
In my, in my, in their heart theyare because they're so, they're so
(34:35):
awesome when they get that excitement.
They don't care if they camein last, they came in first.
I like that a lot.
You know, it was one of my most fulfillingexperiences in life to be able to
work with the mentally handicapped.
And I worked with an agency, througha work program in high school,
(34:58):
and it was called The Star of Hope.
And, and I learned so much becauseof working with those individuals,
it really taught me a lot.
I like it.
So now that you've written abook and you're still currently
(35:19):
in law enforcement, I believe.
Do you have plans to write anotherbook with, you know, a theme for
the boys in blue in some form?
You know, I'm, I'm really,I'm not in law enforcement.
I, I retired after seventeen years.
(35:41):
Um, you know, I, I, I wonder, I alwaysthought of writing something that would
be like, but you know, right now Iwould love to write something to show
the positive side of law enforcement.
But the problem is the positive sidethat they do, people don't care.
I mean,
(36:02):
it's the blood and gutsthat they care about.
And I've already donesomething kind of like that.
So I'm not sure how I would approach that.
Do I want to write?
Yes, I do.
I mean, my book, I can writemore stories on what I did.
I'd only put a fraction of what I didmy early years, I only put a fraction
(36:23):
of what I did in law enforcement,and I've only done a fraction of
my finding my true love, and thesame thing with the Baha'i faith.
Um, I don't know.
I was, I would love to write another book,but I haven't decided what I would do.
Um, you know, I learned a longtime ago, you know, my mom and dad
(36:44):
were partisans during World War II.
And for, they were in Budapest,Hungary, so they went through the
Russians, the, the, the Nazis,and then they went through, you
know, the '56, the Revolution.
And my dad, a couple years ago,my dad and I didn't talk when he
found out I became a flatfoot.
(37:06):
He didn't talk to me for ten years.
He's like, You're being a fuckingflatfoot, get out of my house.
That was the last words for ten years.
We finally talked again, we met someplace.
And him and I had a chat and hegoes, You know, You know, did your
mother ever scare you growing up?
I go, What do you mean?
She scared the hell out ofme my whole life, there was
usually something about her.
(37:27):
And I'm like, Yeah, there'salways something about my mom.
You know, I've only two peoplethat scared me my whole life.
I'm not scared of no man.
I'm scared of my mother, I'mscared of my current wife.
And those two are the only twopeople scared the shit out of me.
And I'm like, Why?
And my dad's like, Yeah, you know,we went against Nazis, you know,
when the Germans were in there.
(37:48):
We went against the Russians whenthey invaded in, you know, the '45.
He said, your father, when the Russians,or your mother, when the Russians
came in to her and her sisters, whatthey did to them, um, never left her.
She was always with her,she was always haunting her.
Because she always, when stormscame, the Russians would come and
(38:09):
they're going to do this again to us.
Your mother was so much, that at ten,eleven years old, she would go out
there and walk out there at night.
There were a couple Russian soldierswho were like, Come here little
girl, what are you doing out here?
And they were doing, and shewould carry this long spear.
As they talked, she stabbed themthrough the neck real fast, both
of them, and take off running.
(38:30):
And if there's one crawling,she stabbed him again until he
stopped crawling and run away.
So he said, Your mother used to do that.
I, I can't remember, a couplehundred times she just stabbed
these Russian soldiers.
Or she'd take a, and go right up toa tank and throw a molotov cocktail
into the roof of a tank and jump off.
Where everybody else would run andthrow it from twenty feet away.
She didn't care, shewanted to see them suffer.
(38:53):
And your mother had that.
And I remember a long time ago that youcould have that where what your parents
did at a young age can be hereditary foryou at a young age growing up, you know?
And I'm going to be honest, where, Iwent through psychological, you know,
evaluation and it came back to, I haveno empathy for people, I really don't.
(39:17):
And I'm a borderline sociopath.
And, you know, that's growing up inthe environment I grew up in and, but
no empathy, they can't figure it out.
To this day, I, I fight bad with it.
When somebody gets hurt, I, I, I don't,my, my wife and I can't watch horror
movies or bad movies because I laugh.
To me, when somebody's head is gettingsnapped off, their arm breaking,
(39:40):
they're torturing them, I laugh.
I think it's funny and I don't know why.
My wife said, I can'twatch this movie with you.
What do you think, it's a comedy?
You're a fucking ass.
And walk away.
And, um, if I see something, Nowthat's not how you break a leg.
Let me tell you what it sounds like.
I'm not listening to your shit.
And walk away.
And I had that.
(40:00):
You know, you were talkingabout maybe a book.
I might do something onpartisans growing up.
What my dad, who's stillalive, could find out more.
Because I asked a friend, I didn't believemy dad, I thought he was full of shit.
So I called a friend of theirsthat lives in New York, and I
asked him, he's like, Who told you?
He goes, your father did.
(40:20):
I go, Yeah.
He goes, Oh, she did,that's what, she was crazy.
He said, that was one of the craziestwomen's I ever met, you know?
And he kind of laughed.
Before he passed, he told me allabout, Yeah, yeah, it's true,
and your dad's not shitting you.
But besides that, your dad's still alive?
I'm like, Yeah, he's still kicking.
Alright.
And that, that was, that was it.
(40:41):
You know, I'm like, Oh my God, youknow, this explains a little bit.
But you know, my mom, growingup, I think knew what I was
doing, but didn't give a shit.
So I mean, I'm, I'm thinkingabout it, but I'm not sure what.
Yeah, yeah.
I think you have a few morein you with all that you've
(41:02):
been through, that's for sure.
And they say, once you writeone, you have to write another.
So I'm, I would be very interestedin seeing more come from you.
Could you tell people how to get the book?
Absolutely.
You can get it onconflictingloyalties.com,
(41:23):
we have everything on there.
Conflictingloyalties.com tells you everymarket you get it from, we'll send you
to it, and that's your best place toget it, rather than scrolling through
everything in Amazon and all that.
But in conflictingloyalties.com, it'll getyou, get on Amazon, it'll tell you right
there, and it tells you how to get to it.
Aiden, I think you'redoing marvelous things.
(41:43):
I call people like you bridgebuilders, because you're bridging that
chasm that people need to get over.
And those younger people,you can help a lot.
And I appreciate a lot what you'redoing, taking the time to come on
these podcasts and write a book.
(42:05):
It's all about helping people grow.
And I really find thatvery unique about you.
Thank you for being part of the DeadAmerica Podcast with us here today.
Ed, Thank you so much for having me.
And you know, if you ever need anythingelse, let me know, sir. And I'll let
you know if I write another book.
(42:27):
I would be very excitedto talk to you about it.
And thank you once again, Aiden.
Thank you again, Ed.
You have a great day and be safe, sir.
You also, sir.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(42:51):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
To overcome, you must educate.
Educate not only yourself, buteducate anyone seeking to learn.
We are all Dead America,we can all learn something.
To learn, we must challengewhat we already understand.
(00:27):
The way we do that isthrough conversation.
Sometimes we have conversations withothers, however, some of the best
conversations happen with ourselves.
Reach out and challenge yourself; let'sdive in and learn something new right now.
(00:55):
Today we are speaking with Aiden Gabor,he's the author of Conflicting Loyalties.
Aiden is an ex mob enforcerturned DOJ informant.
Aiden, could you pleaseintroduce yourself?
Let people know just a littlemore about you, please.
(01:16):
How you doing?
My name is Aiden Gabor.
Um, I grew up in a pretty screwedup, uh, my childhood and life.
Um, introduced myself as, you know,I started off with working with a
crew and eventually worked for theDOJ for taking on bad police officers
and politicians and then finding mylove and finding my spiritual journey
(01:39):
throughout the process of it all.
Or somebody that was extremely antireligious become religious at the
end.
Yeah, I find your story very interesting.
Let's start off withyour early life, Aiden.
It's remarkable how you were youngand you were kind of forced into this
(02:05):
by the DOJ to become an informant.
But those early years, whatwere those like for you?
Um, I'm gonna be honestwith you, it was awesome.
Uh, my dad was an associateand with a Capo in hand.
I would start out nine, ten years old,we would have gatherings, just barbecues
(02:26):
without, Our mothers and grandmothersfrom the old country would come in
and cook and we would have everythingand we would, you know, we didn't,
we learned at early age, respect.
If you were asked to getsomething, get it for them.
Um, you know, I mean, I was, uh, big formy age and I would get in those scuffles
(02:46):
outside with boys that were five, sixyears older than me and I would beat up a
couple of them or, you know, get beat up.
And in early years of, you know, a coupleof times we'd be wrestling or fighting
on this gravel, and, uh, got cut up.
A cop showed up becausethere had, you know, somebody
complained about kids fighting.
And I'm like, you know, like,you know, Aiden, come on
(03:08):
over, tell us what's going on.
I'm like, Get the hell outof here, we're wrestling.
And I was getting my ass handedto me, I was getting beat up.
And I just told them to get out.
And, uh, they're like, come on now,you know, we know who, I don't know,
and then they leave, and we go inside.
And one day, Eddie, the Capo, heasked me, Hey, can you stop by
uh, my, the shop?
(03:28):
He had a little shop, there was acar, like, you know, a mechanic shop.
There was also like a little socialclub and stuff they had in there and
eventually I learned later on in life thatwe had other things going on in there.
And I showed up, I rode my bike, andhe's like, Hey, will you take this
package and take it to this place,drop it off, don't talk to anybody,
(03:51):
don't stop, um, and do not look in it.
I said, Yes, sir. And I took thepackages and I would bring it to people.
And I, you know, as you, after time,after doing this several times, I come
back, you give me money, twenty, thirtybucks, I would run into the candy
store with my buddies and I'd be king.
You know, we would get thirtydollars worth of candy.
(04:13):
And back then, that was a lot of candy.
And I did this for a while,and eventually, you know,
you recognize these people.
And as I got older, I worked my way up.
Eddie saw something in me.
And I started cleaning in thestore, did a little like, um, got to
where I wasn't dropping something.
I'd sweep the store, take garbage out.
(04:34):
You know, I got into a couple scuffles
with a couple guys in there, and,cause they treated me like shit.
And, um, and I wasn't, Iwas one not to take it.
And so I just worked my way up, andeventually Eddie saw something in me.
So we had a guy there, they putin the book, his name's Nicky.
And Nicky taught me how to use a gun,how to use an ice pick, on how you
(04:59):
put the, I mean, back there, you putthis right in the back here, right?
And you can do this, and, and he toldme, With an ice pick, you could stab
somebody five or six times really quick.
Run away, leave it in,it doesn't leave prints.
Never more worried aboutthat, you can get away.
And at that time, I'm thinkingthere's something wrong with this guy.
And taught me how to drive, you know?
(05:21):
Here I am doing all this and they, I,Eddie just saw something in me and, and
eventually I worked my way up to, we go, Ilearned that we were collecting from like
little mom-pop places and little shops.
I started doing thatwith a guy named Dominic.
And Dominic and I reallycared for each other.
(05:41):
First time I met Dominic, hepushed me really hard into the
wall to get out of the way.
And I grabbed, uh, a broom handle,I hit him with it, and then he
hit me and he turned with a gun.
And Eddie's like, No, no, stop,
this is, uh, you know, Gabor's kid.
And they're like, Oh.
And he walked away.
(06:02):
And the first time I went withDominic, we're in the car, and I'm
in the passenger seat, he punchesme as hard as he can in the face.
And it was like, you know, you feelthe, like blackness, and all that.
He's like, That's for when you hitme, we're not even, but you know,
that's, that's what you get, you know?
Don't start your shit.
(06:23):
Anyway, I learned how to collect, andthen I, I, I became an enforcer of people.
Because there's gambling, there'sprostitution, I wasn't allowed
to go by the prostitution becauseI was an adolescent, you know?
With girls, I was learning aboutgirls at the time, and they, yeah,
they didn't want me to go by that.
And so we ran numbers, weloaned money, and we collected.
(06:48):
And then they had a chopshop, that was a big thing.
The biggest thing withEddie was a chop shop.
And I learned how to steal cars.
And I did that.
My first car I stole, I was fifteen.
And first of all, when the second, orthe second time I stole a car, some clown
came up to me to ask me what I was doing.
He's gonna call the cops.
And I kind of tuned him up a little bitand left and never heard anything on that.
(07:11):
And then I, I was enforcing.
And there was a couple of times,I mean, my most remembered time
was we were sitting at a, um, delioutside and this guy is walking
by and Eddie goes, Hey, that, thatmotherfucker owes me twenty grand.
Or I forget what he said, ten or twenty.
(07:32):
And I just started running and I would goup to the guy and I'm like hitting him.
And I start kicking the crapout of him this time and
he's like, Whoa, whoa, chill.
And then I'm beating him, beating thecrap out of him and I'm like, You better
get back or it's going to get worse.
And he looked at me, he goes,You're eating your sandwich.
And I'm looking and I'm going, Yeah, itwas a good corned beef, that wasn't a
(07:53):
sandwich, I love, this thing's great.
But you just beat up a guy eatingyour sandwich, are you kidding me?
He's like, You get the fuck back,Joe, you know, go back there.
And he looked at him and he'stelling Eddie this, and he goes,
Well good, we'll call him Sandwich.
And I thought, to thisday I hate that name.
I became Aiden Sandwich.
Come on, I hate, I hated that name.
(08:15):
And that's what they gave meand that's what I ran with.
And I did all that.
I did all the way up till I was almosteighteen going on nineteen, actually
nineteen going on twenty I shouldsay, because I was a little late.
And the next thing I know, you know, Iwas collecting, I, I, I enforced, did
everything I was supposed to do, beat up,I got stabbed a couple times doing this.
(08:40):
Um, I, uh, I, I, all of a sudden,Eddie comes to me and says, Hey,
the FBI just arrested Dominick,they took Nick, Nick, I think Nick
got away, I think Nick took off.
And anyway, he's like, I'm leaving.
You need to, Hey, you've got tochange, they're going to arrest you.
And you've got a chance to go play collegefootball, go make something of yourself.
(09:04):
And I'm, I wasn't planningon it and I'm like, uh, Okay.
Cause you gotta go becauseyou have prior offs here.
So basically we're done.
So basically the whole, whole thingwent down for that and I, I went to
school and that's, that, that was theend of my first part of my life or
the early part when I worked with,uh, I was running with the crew.
(09:27):
Yeah, that's a lifestylethat many people fear.
But as you live in that lifestyle of crimeand that activity, it really, it makes
you a different person that's for sure.
Uh, growing up in the seventies myself, Iremember when Rico came out and, you know,
(09:52):
the big cases during the eighties withRico, uh, everyone was terrified at that
point because it was guilt by association.
And, you know, everybody was friendlyat that time and everybody knew
everybody, it was a different time.
And I really think that duringthat timeframe of fear, things
(10:18):
really shifted in the, not onlyloyalties, but communities.
They, they buttoned up per se.
What do you think about that, Aiden?
Oh, absolutely.
You know, you know, we had, youknow, we worked with the gang, so
there was no, the crime was nothing.
(10:39):
Um, you know, they, like, youknow, we were told, Eddie's
like, We don't do drugs.
And I can't say the exact words,but he said, Let the gangs give to
their, their own community, you know?
And, but in different words.
And we worked like, we'd get apercentage and we did something,
we didn't poach, you know?
(11:00):
We, we, we, we worked kind of together.
And it was safe back then,there was no problems.
You know, everything was, youcould walk the streets at any
time, um, there was respect.
You know, that was what I loved aboutit, the respect part of it, you know?
Through everything, you know, I'm goingthrough, yeah, the minute Rico came in,
(11:23):
I was the same time frame, and as soon asthat came in, yeah, it changed everything.
That's what happened to us.
You know, FBI just cameand cleaned the house.
And they hurt more, I think morecommunities, yes, where we get money
from the people, but they were safe.
You know, once all that ended, itbecame a free for all, you know?
(11:43):
Um, and that's because, you know, thegovernment wants it on the table or not.
It's, the government wants their money.
They're not getting money out of this.
And that was the wholething I'm looking at.
I mean, the crime part, you'regoing to get that all the time.
But it's the greedy part of thegovernment, and that's my thinking of it.
But, you know, I just, Ijust, I don't understand.
(12:07):
You know, I mean, you're right.
The RICO law was, you don't haveto do anything, you just have to be
associated with somebody and that was it.
Yeah, that, that was a big, big pointin, in my history that I remember vividly
because I remember the fear that ranthrough myself because of my activities.
(12:29):
And it's the same thing, my familybelieved in taking care of business.
If you wronged, well, you're going to findone of us at your door or in your bedroom.
And, you know, it's justhow we handled things.
My brother, you know, that just passedaway recently, uh, he, he spent many
(12:55):
years in prison for using a hatchet onsomebody instead of the baseball bat.
You know, the severity of these crimes,you know, that fear that came in,
it really did take a lot of that andput it on the back burner, per se.
Because I remember it was prettyopen back then, you know, you,
(13:22):
you knew who you were dealing withbecause they demanded that respect.
And
you talk quite a bit about respectin your interviews and I, I love this
portion because I really think that'swhat we're lacking today is respect.
My, my mother and my fatherinstilled in us, you, you don't
(13:48):
hit a woman, you respect thewoman, you respect your elders.
And, you know, I really miss thosetimes and I think a lot of what
occurred in our legal streamsreally screwed the family up.
And then, then you got into everyonecalling the cops on everyone and it
(14:14):
really divided the families in a way.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, you know, respectgrowing up, that was it.
You know, um, family respect,that was the way it went.
And nowadays there is no, thesekids nowadays have zero respect.
You know, I get in trouble in my oldage dealing with these kids nowadays.
(14:34):
They talk their shit and I'm not one,I really didn't take too much crap.
And you're right, wetook care of business.
If you, if you wronged familyand or close friends, you're
expecting my happy face to show up.
And, and, what I used to sayis, I go, Did, Jerry, you beat
up these people, you did this.
(14:54):
You know, yeah, I used a baseballbat, but we weren't kinky.
We weren't rocket scientists, we,we, we used what we had at hand.
And the best thing I learned is havea baseball bat, put a mitt and a
ball in your trunk and you cannotbe arrested because you have a
baseball, I am ready to play baseball.
Let me talk.
And I used to, yes, I used a baseballbat, I like hitting the ankles.
(15:17):
Because when you hit those feet,you hit the tires, they go down.
When you hit the knees,
they only kind of, they might beable to get up, it's going to hurt.
Hit them in the ankles, they're onthe ground and you got total control.
And that, and it made a different sound.
I liked it.
And that, that was me growingup, I'm going to admit to it.
And, um, you know, I did other things,but you were one of the family.
(15:39):
And most of the time, if you see my happymug showing up at your place, it wasn't
because I picked you out just randomly.
It's because you didsomething for me to be here.
You borrowed money and didn't pay itback, you did something, you know?
And everybody talks about differentcrews, don't, you know, we did violence
mostly against other crews becausethey're poaching in our territory.
(16:02):
You know, if you're going to go poachin somebody else's territory, do some
business, you better have a good reasonor you're going to pay the consequences.
And that's like nowadays, there isno consequences for what you do.
There is no respect.
There is, and that's the way these kidsare nowadays, they're little shits.
And I, I, yeah, big respect.
You know, like I say everytime, I have never said a word
(16:25):
against anybody I ran with.
Anybody in the crew.
I never did anything against them.
If they were to ask me, I wouldhave told them to get fucked.
But I did things against bad policeofficers and bad politicians.
That was what, yes, didI inform against them?
Absolutely.
But I grew up seeing these people and theywere supposed to be protecting people.
And then in the second part of life, whenthe DOJ came up and gave me that lovely, I
(16:50):
wouldn't say ultimatum, they had basicallya deal I couldn't refuse at the time.
That, yeah, you know, eventuallyI figured I'm doing good.
You know, but I did miss my younger life.
I enjoyed doing it because wehad respect in the neighborhood,
(17:10):
the neighborhoods were safe.
People said, Hey, how you doing?
You know, we, you know, you got alot of shit free, but you also had,
like I said, the respect thing.
Yeah, I like that a lot.
And it really appealed to mewhen I seen this come across
the desk for the first time.
Uh, the title of your book, you know,it suggests conflicting loyalties.
(17:36):
Is your loyalty still conflicting ordo you have a better grasp on your
ideas and who you are and what you are?
You know, I do now.
I think spiritually helped me.
But when the conflicting loyalties partmostly came in is, you know, when the
DOJ came up and used that Rico thingagainst me, they're like, This is a new,
(18:01):
you know, when they show me picturesof my mother, my father, you know, when
they show pictures of me and my fatherwith Eddie and a bunch of other guys,
I didn't care.
But when they show me my mother andsay my mother's going to go to jail,
if I, unless I did it, that, thathit me because I'm a mama's boy.
I was, my mom is past.
And they said, Hey, have youever heard this law called RICO?
(18:24):
Well, no, I was young,it's a new law out there.
Because you're a college boy,go look it up in the, in the,
in the library, you know?
Back then, 70s, you didn't have that shit.
So I went and found out what it was.
I'm like, Holy shit.
And that, I'm sorry, that's, that wasmy, it killed me the first time I said,
(18:45):
Yes, I'll do what you need me to do.
And, you know, these two clowns hadme, you know, infiltrate a police
department to find a police officer.
The first one was a hit man.
And what happened with the conflictingloyalties part is, when you become law
enforcement, after I started, you geton the academy, and you go through,
there's a thing called the blue line,as you start going in law enforcement.
(19:09):
And it's this blue line, almostlike we had, where you don't talk
about your brothers and sisters.
If you see something, kindof keep it to yourself.
You know, that type of deal.
Unless it's extremely bad.
But my conflicting loyalties partwas, as I'm doing all of this, I'm
thinking to myself, Am I betrayingmy brothers and sisters in blue?
(19:33):
And my first, when I first started doingit, the first one I went after, it took
me over a year and I became a drinker.
And I drank, but I became agulper, I guess you could say.
That's the way this this, idiotwas . And after I put away, when they
got me to work in the department Igrew up in, and since I remembered the
politicians, the commissioners, and
(19:55):
the officers that I saw as a kid takingthe, taking the money, telling them what's
going on, doing some very bad crimes.
And for, for Eddie that, I thought, youknow, like I said, the DOJ came to me.
It wasn't to be undercover,it was just as an informant.
I didn't have backup so I had todo all this and no tell anybody.
(20:17):
Don't you say a word to your parents,don't say a word to your wife or anybody.
Or if you do, you go.
That's it.
The deal's off, you're going to jail.
And, you know, as you become adrinker, it started getting to me.
I started seeing hallucinationsof St. Michael with the
flaming sword coming at me.
He said, I betrayed and slicing at me.
(20:37):
And in that time frame, in that timeframe, I started becoming an alcoholic.
But then I started getting those benders.
And I remember waking up, and I remember,was I hallucinating about putting a
round in the chamber of 357, spinningit, and putting it to my head, and
(20:58):
pulling the trigger, or putting itunderneath my chin, pulling the trigger?
And I know of at least 200 orso times I did it remembering.
And times I wake up with two or three inthe, in, in the gun laying on the floor
next to me, thinking I do this over athousand times, trying to kill myself.
And, you know, later, life I'mlearning to God, didn't want me to die.
(21:21):
You know, and my conflicting loyaltiespart was, I'm conflicting against
my brothers and sisters in blue.
I'm taking note of bad policeofficers, that was a part.
The politicians, I didn't give a shit.
But going against police officers,am I going against the guys?
Because as you walk in theirshoes as a law enforcement, and
(21:44):
you know, I still did the job.
And you get to see, dealing with, whatthey would deal with every day in life,
you know?
Um, and people don't understandthis, let's defund them.
They don't do, are you kidding me?
What these men and women do.
It's like the military, why thesepeople treat the military personnel
(22:04):
the way they do, law enforcement,first responders, you know?
What these men and women do for you.
You know, I always talked, I'vetalked to many military people and,
you know, this is what they get.
They train, kill, kill, kill,train, kill, kill, kill.
It's all done with go back and bea normal person in society after
(22:24):
you've seen and did what you did.
Seriously?
That's how I look at it.
Why do these people have mental, I mean, Ididn't see the carnage they may have seen.
Have I seen carnage?
Yes.
But have I, you know, been involved?
Yes.
But not the same way theseguys were, and I was very young
when I did a lot of this stuff.
(22:45):
And in law enforcement, you see it.
You see the abuse, you see themurders, you see everything.
And some people can't take thatmentally, and I understand it, but they
want you to be a normal, functioninghuman being after your shift is
over, or after your tour is over.
And my conflicting, like I said, myconflicting loyalty was that, you know?
(23:06):
And I became a bad alcoholicand my buddy Don and Sam saved
my ass with the alcoholism.
Well, thank God for Don and Sam.
You know, it is, it's interesting youbring this up about law enforcement.
You know, my whole family wascriminal to the T. But I,I,
I really don't get into that.
(23:29):
I really looked at what was happeningand I kinda got sick because of it.
And then interestinglyenough, I met my wife.
I was seventeen years old and shewas a Christian and she kind of
(23:49):
stepped in and changed who I was.
And my life hasn't beenthe same ever since.
And I heard that you found thatsame type of experience with your
second wife, is that correct?
Yes, yeah.
I was, you know, I was extremely,I mean, I was an asshole.
(24:12):
I was not a great person.
My first wife, I was not a great husband.
I was not a great father.
I didn't believe in religion.
I was, I used to joke, Iwork for the other guy.
I collect souls.
And I met her and she, she, you know,she looked at me and accepted me.
And then, you know, we would go out.
And the first several days, I,you know, I had a friend of mine
(24:34):
say, Hey, you need to go out.
She wants to go out with you.
I go, Seriously?
Why would she want to go out with me?
He goes, I don't know.
She thinks you're funny.
You know, I joke around with everybody.
And I said, All right,I'll go out with her.
And it was just one of those clicks.
Ed, I'm going to be telling youthat this is kind of a funny story
is, we went out, I didn't pay foranything on the first eight dates.
(24:58):
She thought, she probablythought I was some kind of scam.
Like, we joke about this now.
But she said, she liked me, we went out.
I always had an excuse, I was goingthrough a divorce, I was, and you
know, she, cause I felt bad for you,and then eventually you're like a
fungus, I couldn't get rid of you.
And, and, she, she understands,she accepted me for who I
(25:23):
am, and who, what I was.
And, you know,
she may have not gotten me when I wasyounger in my prime and fit and all this.
You know, I got ALS,I'm, uh, falling apart.
I was shot a couple of times.
I mean, she's getting the, the, the,uh, used car part, and she accepted it.
(25:43):
And, you know, the funniest thingabout her is, when I started in law
enforcement, I was a young officer, Iarrested a sixteen year old at a bar.
I bring this person to jail.
She's in the backseat, kind ofcrying, but kind of being a bitch.
(26:06):
And I'm trying to talk to her,she's really not talking to me.
So, at that time, I took herpicture, took her prints.
And back then, I was making my extrasentence set for my own files to say,
you know, we get, you know, keep yourown files in case something happens and,
you know, kind of like getting trouble.
You know, I arrested her whenshe was sixteen years old.
(26:30):
And then we met againlike fifteen years later.
It's one of those synchro, I didn'trealize it till her uncle said
something to me about, Hey, um, hey,I was, she got arrested at that town.
I'm like, Seriously?
She's like, Yeah!
We used to live there years ago!
(26:52):
I remember that!
And, and, and she's explainingit to me, so I looked it up,
and sure enough, it was me!
I was like, so what's that, synchranikra?
Whatever the hell they call it.
Yeah, so, that's where I met her,but she, she just understood me.
And to this day, sheaccepts me for what I am.
And, you know, we click.
(27:13):
We talk every day, we talk every day, ofcourse, but we talk as much as we can,
and we still say I love you every morning.
And my first wife was like,you know, Satan's daughter.
And that's how I used to joke,I married Satan's daughter.
Because she was, shewas just a mean bitch.
But yeah, you're right.
I'm glad yours is like this too.
You know, except for a few quirks,even though you may be, you know, a
(27:36):
little bit out there, they accept you.
It's a beautiful thing whenyou find the right woman.
And, and it's, it's interestinghow they don't really change you,
I think you really change together.
You know, that, that's the big thing.
Writing a book Aiden, you,you talk about it being therapy.
(27:59):
And I find podcasting therapybecause I, I really don't have the
talent yet to finish and completea book, but I'm, I'm seeking that.
So, so do you, talk to us aboutthe therapy end of releasing
this through a book or even thesepodcasts that you are doing.
(28:24):
You know, I, I, what happenedonce, I was having night
terrors and I still have them.
And I was swinging, I was throwingmy wife around, I was punching the
wall, I was punching at some, andshe called Don and Sam and said, Hey,
you guys, this is what he's doing.
And they came out andthey flew down and saw me.
And Don was like, You know,dude, come on, you know?
(28:47):
You need to look at this.
And you need to maybelook at some religion.
I'm like, Go to hell.
And Sam looks at me.
And he goes, You need to listento Sam, like, read these books.
And Don's like, I gotta go.
We're talking about it,you know, what's going on.
He was here for a couple days.
Sam stayed for a couple weeksand he's like, Read this.
(29:08):
And there was a Ba'bBahá'í, the Bahá'í faith.
And I'm like, I don't likereading, but okay, I'll read this.
And then we started talking and then, henever knew, you know, I grew up with Sam,
I mean, we grew up in the neighborhood,we grew up, he never knew this shit.
He goes, I always wrote it off,but, but I knew your dad did work
for, I didn't know you were going.
(29:28):
And he's like, Well, no.
And him and I talked about, you know,life, because I knew a lot, he goes, Yeah,
I remember some things happening whenwe were there, and we were like, Wow.
And he goes, Your life screwed up.
I go, Gee, thanks, I love hearing that.
And he's just like, Youneed to write a book.
I go, Go to hell.
I ain't writing this book.
I don't want to because if youcould therapeutically get it all
(29:49):
out, I go, I'm going nuts now.
He goes, Yeah, but you get it all out.
And yes, I wrote the book.
It took a couple yearsbecause it's a memoir.
Oh, I forgot about that, oh,yeah, you know, did I have this?
Oh, you know, we also did that, you know?
You remember little parts here and there.
And yeah, I wrote the bookand, and he's like, isn't it
(30:13):
helping you therapeutically?
I'm like, No!
It's not.
But yeah, it is.
You know, it's one of those yes and no's.
And he said, You know, do a podcast.
Yes, it's helping me.
Am I having as many night terrors?
And no, I'm not, which is surprisingme because I'm remembering more
and more of the stuff I did.
I didn't want to rememberboth then being a criminal and
(30:36):
both being in law enforcement.
You know, I always jokedthat I was in the dark.
I was in the shadows, my young life.
And I was in the mediumshadows growing up.
And eventually when I foundthe Baha'i faith, I came out
of the dark into the light.
And realized, Whoa, you know, the Baha'ifaith, men and women are exactly equal.
(30:59):
Where in some Catholic faiths,the men, the woman is subservient
to the man, you know, in theBaptist race, you know, faiths.
And every, I believe everyone'sequal, I've always believed that.
And there's a lot of things that Baha'isbelieve, but I'm like, Well, yeah,
everybody bleeds red, you know, whetherthey're white, pink, black, purple, green.
(31:20):
We all bleed red.
We bleed a different color,we got some problems.
And that's how I, that's,that's what I believe in.
And Sam looked at me and goes, So youwere always a Baha'i your whole life.
You just didn't know it.
And so I started reading and one day I'msitting outside, you know, and I get this
(31:42):
one, I'm reading Baha'u'llah's writing,and I look up, I get this feeling in me
and I'm like, I'm looking at the sun, it'shot out, and I'm thinking, it's got, it's
gotta be getting sunstroke or something.
I'm going in.
My wife's like, Serena'slike, What's going on?
I go, I don't know.
There's something inside me, I'mreading Baha'u'llah's writings.
I got this feeling and all thatfucking bullshit, I hate it.
(32:04):
And she's like, You're getting spiritual.
I go, Go to hell.
I'm not getting spiritual here.
This is, I hate this feeling.
Oh, no, that's what you're getting.
And I kept reading, you know?
She's, and then she started, I, I'm not agreat reader so she started reading to me.
And she's like, See?
And then the Baha'i faith, there'sa thing called Ruhi, a Ruhi
(32:27):
class, which is a Bible class.
So for three years, my wife did theseRuhi classes with me twice a week, one
hour twice a week, two hours a week.
And she did it,
she went through it, readit, did everything with it.
But she never converted from herCatholic or, you know, Christian
beliefs to, you know, a Bahai.
(32:50):
Even though I did.
But she stayed with me to help me read,to help me understand for three years.
She never, and after we talked aboutour wives understanding us and helping
us, um, that right there showed a lot.
And then me learning spiritually,you know, and I always joke that, you
know, God never let me kill myself.
(33:12):
I tried, as many times.
I got stabbed.
I got shot.
God said, Yeah, you ain't dying.
But God's got a sense of humor.
Because I went through all this shit,and now I got, and now I got ALS.
So He's like, Yeah, guess what, sunshine?
The best is yet to come for you.
So, I get it.
(33:32):
You know, He's got a sense ofhumor, and, and, and I accept it.
And I used to be, I didn't care if I died.
I didn't care if I died, at all.
Now I want to live becauseI've learned to help people.
I've actually, which I neverthought in a million years, I
do a lot with Special Olympics.
With these special needs men and women.
(33:54):
I mean, they're not kids,they're men and women.
But my God, if the world cansee through their eyes, because
they just want to hug you.
Oh, there's Aiden.
Oh, there's my friend.
And they come up, Aiden, oh, they don'tcare about what I did as a living.
They just care.
I'm their, their friend.
You know, they understand if youhurt that man, that person hurt me,
I don't like them.
(34:14):
They understand when they get hurt.
But they understand, Hey,this is a nice person.
I like them.
And I love that.
It's like, you know,it's just a warmth I get.
And I love helping and I love doingthe Special Olympics and seeing,
these kids are never going tobe Olympians, but yes, they are.
In my, in my, in their heart theyare because they're so, they're so
(34:35):
awesome when they get that excitement.
They don't care if they camein last, they came in first.
I like that a lot.
You know, it was one of my most fulfillingexperiences in life to be able to
work with the mentally handicapped.
And I worked with an agency, througha work program in high school,
(34:58):
and it was called The Star of Hope.
And, and I learned so much becauseof working with those individuals,
it really taught me a lot.
I like it.
So now that you've written abook and you're still currently
(35:19):
in law enforcement, I believe.
Do you have plans to write anotherbook with, you know, a theme for
the boys in blue in some form?
You know, I'm, I'm really,I'm not in law enforcement.
I, I retired after seventeen years.
(35:41):
Um, you know, I, I, I wonder, I alwaysthought of writing something that would
be like, but you know, right now Iwould love to write something to show
the positive side of law enforcement.
But the problem is the positive sidethat they do, people don't care.
I mean,
(36:02):
it's the blood and gutsthat they care about.
And I've already donesomething kind of like that.
So I'm not sure how I would approach that.
Do I want to write?
Yes, I do.
I mean, my book, I can writemore stories on what I did.
I'd only put a fraction of what I didmy early years, I only put a fraction
(36:23):
of what I did in law enforcement,and I've only done a fraction of
my finding my true love, and thesame thing with the Baha'i faith.
Um, I don't know.
I was, I would love to write another book,but I haven't decided what I would do.
Um, you know, I learned a longtime ago, you know, my mom and dad
(36:44):
were partisans during World War II.
And for, they were in Budapest,Hungary, so they went through the
Russians, the, the, the Nazis,and then they went through, you
know, the '56, the Revolution.
And my dad, a couple years ago,my dad and I didn't talk when he
found out I became a flatfoot.
(37:06):
He didn't talk to me for ten years.
He's like, You're being a fuckingflatfoot, get out of my house.
That was the last words for ten years.
We finally talked again, we met someplace.
And him and I had a chat and hegoes, You know, You know, did your
mother ever scare you growing up?
I go, What do you mean?
She scared the hell out ofme my whole life, there was
usually something about her.
(37:27):
And I'm like, Yeah, there'salways something about my mom.
You know, I've only two peoplethat scared me my whole life.
I'm not scared of no man.
I'm scared of my mother, I'mscared of my current wife.
And those two are the only twopeople scared the shit out of me.
And I'm like, Why?
And my dad's like, Yeah, you know,we went against Nazis, you know,
when the Germans were in there.
(37:48):
We went against the Russians whenthey invaded in, you know, the '45.
He said, your father, when the Russians,or your mother, when the Russians
came in to her and her sisters, whatthey did to them, um, never left her.
She was always with her,she was always haunting her.
Because she always, when stormscame, the Russians would come and
(38:09):
they're going to do this again to us.
Your mother was so much, that at ten,eleven years old, she would go out
there and walk out there at night.
There were a couple Russian soldierswho were like, Come here little
girl, what are you doing out here?
And they were doing, and shewould carry this long spear.
As they talked, she stabbed themthrough the neck real fast, both
of them, and take off running.
(38:30):
And if there's one crawling,she stabbed him again until he
stopped crawling and run away.
So he said, Your mother used to do that.
I, I can't remember, a couplehundred times she just stabbed
these Russian soldiers.
Or she'd take a, and go right up toa tank and throw a molotov cocktail
into the roof of a tank and jump off.
Where everybody else would run andthrow it from twenty feet away.
She didn't care, shewanted to see them suffer.
(38:53):
And your mother had that.
And I remember a long time ago that youcould have that where what your parents
did at a young age can be hereditary foryou at a young age growing up, you know?
And I'm going to be honest, where, Iwent through psychological, you know,
evaluation and it came back to, I haveno empathy for people, I really don't.
(39:17):
And I'm a borderline sociopath.
And, you know, that's growing up inthe environment I grew up in and, but
no empathy, they can't figure it out.
To this day, I, I fight bad with it.
When somebody gets hurt, I, I, I don't,my, my wife and I can't watch horror
movies or bad movies because I laugh.
To me, when somebody's head is gettingsnapped off, their arm breaking,
(39:40):
they're torturing them, I laugh.
I think it's funny and I don't know why.
My wife said, I can'twatch this movie with you.
What do you think, it's a comedy?
You're a fucking ass.
And walk away.
And, um, if I see something, Nowthat's not how you break a leg.
Let me tell you what it sounds like.
I'm not listening to your shit.
And walk away.
And I had that.
(40:00):
You know, you were talkingabout maybe a book.
I might do something onpartisans growing up.
What my dad, who's stillalive, could find out more.
Because I asked a friend, I didn't believemy dad, I thought he was full of shit.
So I called a friend of theirsthat lives in New York, and I
asked him, he's like, Who told you?
He goes, your father did.
(40:20):
I go, Yeah.
He goes, Oh, she did,that's what, she was crazy.
He said, that was one of the craziestwomen's I ever met, you know?
And he kind of laughed.
Before he passed, he told me allabout, Yeah, yeah, it's true,
and your dad's not shitting you.
But besides that, your dad's still alive?
I'm like, Yeah, he's still kicking.
Alright.
And that, that was, that was it.
(40:41):
You know, I'm like, Oh my God, youknow, this explains a little bit.
But you know, my mom, growingup, I think knew what I was
doing, but didn't give a shit.
So I mean, I'm, I'm thinkingabout it, but I'm not sure what.
Yeah, yeah.
I think you have a few morein you with all that you've
(41:02):
been through, that's for sure.
And they say, once you writeone, you have to write another.
So I'm, I would be very interestedin seeing more come from you.
Could you tell people how to get the book?
Absolutely.
You can get it onconflictingloyalties.com,
(41:23):
we have everything on there.
Conflictingloyalties.com tells you everymarket you get it from, we'll send you
to it, and that's your best place toget it, rather than scrolling through
everything in Amazon and all that.
But in conflictingloyalties.com, it'll getyou, get on Amazon, it'll tell you right
there, and it tells you how to get to it.
Aiden, I think you'redoing marvelous things.
(41:43):
I call people like you bridgebuilders, because you're bridging that
chasm that people need to get over.
And those younger people,you can help a lot.
And I appreciate a lot what you'redoing, taking the time to come on
these podcasts and write a book.
(42:05):
It's all about helping people grow.
And I really find thatvery unique about you.
Thank you for being part of the DeadAmerica Podcast with us here today.
Ed, Thank you so much for having me.
And you know, if you ever need anythingelse, let me know, sir. And I'll let
you know if I write another book.
(42:27):
I would be very excitedto talk to you about it.
And thank you once again, Aiden.
Thank you again, Ed.
You have a great day and be safe, sir.
You also, sir.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
(42:51):
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!