Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ed Watters (00:05):
To overcome, you must educate.
Educate not only yourself, buteducate anyone seeking to learn.
We are all Dead America,we can all learn something.
To learn, we must challengewhat we already understand.
(00:27):
The way we do that isthrough conversation.
Sometimes we have conversations withothers, however, some of the best
conversations happen with ourselves.
Reach out and challenge yourself; let'sdive in and learn something new right now.
(00:55):
Today I am super excitedbecause we have a national icon
with us today, Matthew Lesko.
He really needs no introductionat all, but Matthew, would
you please introduce yourself?
Let people know just a littlemore about you, please.
Matthew Lesko (01:16):
Well, I've been
doing this work for fifty years.
I'm eighty-one years old and, uh, forfifty years I've been trying to train
people how to take advantage of governmentbenefits that nobody knows we have.
I mean, you know, if you can't, you'llnever find government benefits in Google.
You know, that's the problem becauseyou'll find 500, 000 million websites
(01:37):
that people want to get your money.
See, and that's why you, ifyou don't have money, you just
have to stay away from Google.
So I'm trying to show you how totake advantage of actually the forty
percent of our country that givesaway money, forty percent of our
country gives away money and programsto help people have a better life.
(01:57):
Sixty percent of the money, ofour country charges money to help
you, forty percent no charge.
Don't have to have a credit card, nothing.
And you get help fromus, anything you want.
And that they don't advertiseand people don't know what
to do and so that's my job.
I got about ten, fifteen years left, Ihope to keep educating people about that.
Ed Watters (02:21):
I sure hope so, because
we need people like you in the world.
You educate so well.
Let's start from the beginningMatthew, you, you got started in
helping people somewhere, somehow.
Could you let people understand howyou got started in helping people
(02:43):
discover grants and free money?
Matthew Lesko (02:47):
Yeah.
I, uh, yeah.
When I was about eight, twelve years old,I remember pushing my younger brother down
the stairs, and I remember that pickinghim up was more, that's a bad joke.
I , I didn't know how to end that.
No, I, I don't know.
There's something in me, uh,uh, you know, you have to learn
(03:08):
how to feed yourself first.
And, uh, and I just, things weren'tworking and I found that, then I forget.
I just got rid of everything inmy head because everything I tried
wasn't working, I wasn't having fun.
I wasn't, wasn't working out.
Uh, I was failing at everything after Igot an MBA and all this kind of stuff.
(03:31):
And then I said, Boy, now thissounds stupid because why am I
being miserable to maybe have funin thirty years for a few days.
Be miserable your wholelife to eventually have fun.
And I figured, because I was thinking,Because I'm taking advice from outside.
(03:52):
You know, we don't knowwhat we're doing in life.
Everybody's guessing.
Nobody knows what the rules are,they change every day anyway.
And so you try stuff that other peoplesay is, this is perfect for you to do.
And I always keep on failing.
So I said, Well, fine, thesepeople aren't so smart after all.
Why do they, how can they getaway with charging so much money?
See, they make you believe they'reso smart when they're really not.
(04:16):
So that's the way they charge a lot.
So I said, I gotta listen to memore, you know, and then outside.
And, and that's when itstarted working and having fun.
I said, Because if I'm having funand I'm, making decisions based
more in my heart than in my head,
I didn't think in those termsat the time, but I had other
(04:37):
terms for them I didn't know yet.
And, uh, at least I was havingfun, so I didn't have to work
ten, fifteen, thirty years to havefun doing something miserable.
I'm having fun now.
Maybe I'll fail, but what the hell.
I was failing, not having fun.
So it's a better system tofail while you're having fun.
(04:59):
And so I get another job for six months,I hate it and try something again.
But then this time it wasfrom the heart, you know?
What is right for you?
We're all different.
We're all, you know, organic like theearth, or the flowers, or whatever, and
we're built to be something, you know?
And that's, I think, our whole mission is.
(05:20):
Because when you find that,then you don't work anymore.
You're doing somethingthat you love doing.
It's like if you love playing tennis, andvery few are good enough to make money
out of it, and the rest of us dream of it.
So you have to find out what yourskill is, that you could figure
out a way to make income out of it.
(05:40):
So you get both pleasures.
And I'm so fortunate,
I got eighty-one, I have no idea, Ihave no intention of retiring ever.
I get more fun and moresatisfaction out of doing this.
And the older I get, the more I see thereal thing in life is helping others.
Uh, that's the satisfaction, uh,the secret about, uh, people don't
(06:04):
realize how selfish giving is.
It's probably the most selfish thing youdo in life, because it feels so good.
But we all think we shouldn't be that way.
We have to be protective,and not, not be selfish.
I don't know, I can't, I neverfigured out what's in my head,
let alone somebody else's.
(06:25):
Uh, so that's why all I felt,it felt better the more I gave.
And you have to take care ofyourself first, so there's
always limits to everything.
But even now, and that's why,what, I mean, I can't wait to
get up every morning and do thisbetter, yeah, and help more people.
I mean, I don't feel I'm responsiblefor any of, these are coming programs,
(06:45):
they're, not like I invented, youknow, a cure for cancer or something.
I just found this phone number.
And that said, so it's not even from me.
And, but the joy I receive from,somebody writes, uh, Boy, Lesko, I
just did this and I got this and,you know, uh, I was going nowhere.
(07:06):
And then I got this, I had noidea you could use it for that.
They teach me.
I don't know where, I was justreading that note earlier.
Uh, so the fact that I could give somebodya phone number that could change their
life, give them six months of rentor something like that, or starting a
business, um, or solving a health problem.
People don't know, uh, getting acopay made, uh, that they thought
(07:30):
they had to pay, but you don't haveto pay, or having a big hospital
bill that will bankrupt you, butyou don't have to pay that either.
So it's, it's, uh, so I'mtrying to train people.
And the help is not where people think itis, I think that's the biggest problem.
We don't educate people aboutusing these programs, we educate
(07:52):
people about spending money.
So that's what everybody knows how to do.
Everybody knows how to go to Google andsay, I need help with my rent, okay?
And this is Google, this is our economyhere, uh, whole economy in 2023.
And this is capitalism, the orangepart, or yellow, whatever it is.
(08:13):
That's capitalism.
It's sixty percent of everythingin our economy so they're
charging for everything.
They're there to help you aslong as you have a credit card.
But this part is our,well, community society.
This is where communities helpeach other, people help each other.
It's sort of like if your neighbor'shouse was on fire and you went over
(08:34):
there, Yeah, I'd like to help you,but do you have a good credit card?
No.
They prefer a credit card to helping them.
So that's what we are, we have thiscommunity that helps each other.
And that's really made up of non profitorganizations and government offices.
And they're the ones that giveout an average of like 18,000
(08:55):
dollars every year to every adult.
And nobody knows.
And I'm trying to teachpeople how to do that.
Because you just, the basicthing is what not to do.
You don't go to Google.
Nobody on Google is, I mean,they're in there, the government,
non profit, they don't advertise,so you'll never find them.
(09:15):
Because like everybody else, Googlewants to make advertising money.
So, the non profits andgovernment don't advertise.
So it's hard to get noticed in Google,so you have to stay out of there.
And one of the basic things isto only go to websites that are
dot O R G or dot G O V, okay?
(09:35):
And that's, anybody else is goingto get money from you one way or
another, and they're too slick to outthink them because they think about
ways to get money from you 24/7.
And now with the Internet, it'sso much more powerful to test.
It's all about testing.
They could, when I was doing directmarketing years ago before the Internet,
(09:56):
you had to do like direct mail.
And you put mail in the mail,you know, see if anybody buys and
that takes maybe months to figureout if it was worth it or not.
Now you can do 15,000 trials inthree seconds to find out what,
what to say so that you get money.
Uh, so that's why they have, we don'tstand a chance, you know, with these.
(10:20):
So you have to use these, uh,services that do it for free.
Uh, I don't know.
Do you know Find Help at all?
Ed Watters (10:30):
Yes, I was actually
looking at that and it is fascinating.
Says there's 1,949 programs inmy area and that is fascinating.
Yes.
I'm in the middle of nowhere.
Matthew Lesko (10:52):
All three
of you could use those.
And that's what frustrates me.
And then the other thing we have to startteaching people is don't rely, don't try
to find an application on the internet.
Uh, because you don't know whatto apply for and you can't even
understand what they mean orwhat, you know, it just too much.
You know, like talking to doctors, youknow, they all have their own language and
(11:17):
you're not sure what the hell they mean.
You have to use people, youhave to get on the phone.
That's the real way that you findinformation in America that you can
understand and use and take advantage of.
So if you like put in rent and you goand you find, probably for you, where you
live, maybe twenty, thirty organizations,uh, that help you with rent.
(11:38):
And the way to use that is tostart calling every one of them.
If there's only twenty, what the hell?
Uh, somebody's going to give you5,000 dollars to pay your rent, you
can spend a couple days doing this.
Where else are you going toget free money like that?
And you talk to people, see, they'reall in the business of helping
people like you with that problem.
(11:58):
You know, so if they can't helpyou, they're the most likely people
in the world to know who can.
It's sort of like, well, you know, livingin rural America, well, I mean, I can read
a book on it or I can call you, you know?
Because you read all the books inabout twenty years or whatever.
And so that's what you want to dobecause there's just too much of a fire
(12:20):
hose of information on the Internet.
And you have to rely onpeople more nowadays.
They're who've gone, and the thing is,all these nonprofits and government
offices are public servants.
They have to answer your call.
They may not, but the theory is,but it's not like you're calling
a business and, you know, a lawyerand, Oh yeah, I'll help you.
(12:43):
You know, 300 bucks an hour.
No, these people are allfree no matter what you do.
And actually legal helpis available for you.
Why hire an attorney for anything,uh, when you can get better help
for free from government offices?
Like right now your credit cardscrews you over or whatever, your
bank, any financial institution,
you file a complaint with theconsumerfinance.gov, they'll investigate.
(13:07):
Even though you're wrong,they'll investigate.
And see, these big organizations,they don't care about your lawyer.
Their lawyers are biggerthan yours, you know?
And your lawyer's, you know,got you on the clock for 200
bucks an hour or whatever.
And the worst they could lose in fightingyour lawyer is having to pay you, right?
But if you get the government involved,if they screw up with the government,
(13:30):
they can lose all their business.
Because they have, they get a licensefrom the government to be in business.
You don't have that power.
You know, you just have power to sue them.
So it's easier now forthem to just cave in.
Because, and also these big companiesthat you're fighting, it costs them too
much money to talk to the governmentbecause that's another bureaucracy, right?
(13:53):
So they're going to spend 5,000dollars just talking to each other.
And you want a thousand bucks, it'scheaper to just give you a thousand
dollars and get on with theirlives, you know, instead of doing.
So that's why we're nottrained to use this.
All we're trained is to spend money.
That's fine if you have money, capitalismbrought a lot of people out of poverty.
(14:13):
But it seems to be putting morepeople in poverty now, the truth.
Yeah.
Uh, and I never said it that way.
It just came out of my mouthbecause I've been looking at data,
poverty data recently, and thisis for the developed countries.
So this is, you know, uh, like we havethirty developed countries in the world.
(14:34):
So nobody from Africa is inhere, uh, the poor countries,
but we're number one in poverty.
Isn't that amazing?
I know, isn't it?
We're the highest poverty ratein all of developed worlds.
How could we be the richestcountry in the world?
Why do we even dare brag we'rethe richest country in the world?
(14:57):
Well, that's going away now too, but
it is, it's a pity.
I mean, we make more millionairesthan anybody and that's true, but
I don't know if that's a, if that'sworth saying when you're also making
more poor people than anybody.
Uh, here's the sheet.
Yeah, we make twenty-four million,uh, millionaires in our country.
(15:20):
Uh, we're number one formillionaires and for poor people.
Number one, baby.
Yeah.
It's, people have to do something,you know, and I think people are
beat up so much in this country.
Um, and now it's, we're goingthrough a tough time, you know,
(15:44):
politically and everything.
That people are upset and tryingto get through all this and in the
world, our rank is getting small.
I mean, in ten years, we'reprobably not going to be the
biggest guy on the block anymore.
And we got to get used to that,so that's hard to swallow.
Ed Watters (16:01):
Well, it's interesting
because you often say, Don't stop at no.
And my grandmother told me,The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
So that's the principle behind whatyou're saying there basically, is it not?
Matthew Lesko (16:20):
It is, and
I think it's all in life.
And that's why I used toworry about question marks.
That's why my suits used to bequestion marks, now they're hearts.
Because I had the question marksbefore, because I think that if
you have to ask the right questionto get a good answer, you know?
So getting the right informationthat you need to make a decision
(16:41):
means asking the right question.
But now I believe that even if youhave the right answer, it's still not,
you're still not going to make it happen
if your heart's not in it.
Say, because there's going to be problems,everything you do in life is going to
have roadblocks, bumps, problems, orwhatever and fifteen reasons to stop.
(17:02):
So you have, your heart hasto be in it so you don't stop.
And that's the way you get through that.
It's sort of, you know, I remember,my boys are in their forties now,
they're older than me, they were tryingto walk and they'd pick themselves
up at the coffee table and take alittle step and fall on their ass.
So you have to fall on yourass a lot of times to walk.
(17:24):
So when you want to do somethingnew in life, same thing.
You're not just gonna get up out ofthe chair and make, make a home run.
No, you gotta fall on your butt.
And that's why I think we're, uh,Internet and professionals get in the
way because they make you believe, ortry to make you believe, that it's easy.
And follow these three stepsand you'll be a millionaire.
(17:47):
One, two, three, that's all it is.
Why aren't you doing it?
When it doesn't happen in three days,you get mad at yourself and don't believe
anybody and just start digging a hole.
And, uh, we can't do thatif we want to do anything.
And anything for, you don't have to, Ibelieve this wholeheartedly, you don't
(18:07):
have to know what exactly you should do.
The only thing you have to knowexactly what is right is where
you are now is not right , that'sthe only thing you have to know.
And everybody, sorry, it's so temptingto wait for the right opportunity before
you do something different and you don'tknow what that right opportunity is.
(18:28):
I think we build it piece by piece,and the only way you do that is
taking a step away from where you are.
Anything is better, anything.
Something is always better than nothing.
And we, we get trapped in, Oh, I'mgoing to wait for the perfect one
before I, that's not going to happen.
And you're going to be here twenty yearslater waiting for the perfect one to come.
(18:52):
So you have to really just takea step out and try anything.
Doesn't matter what you'retrying as long as it's not.
Ed Watters (18:58):
Yeah.
Really, what I'm hearing there,Matthew, is a big step is believing
in yourself and baby step that out.
As you grow, you become betterat believing in yourself.
Getting started is hard to dosometimes and that's where what
(19:19):
you're doing helps people get started.
Could you tell peopleabout, uh, Lesko Help?
Matthew Lesko (19:28):
Yes, that's
a community we have now.
I just started it about two years agoand I thought it'd just be a subscription
to help pay my rent or whatever.
And it just grew, took on legs by itself.
That's not an example.
It's growing into something I never, I,knew would happened because I thought
it would have to be me answering all thequestions and how much can I really do?
So it won't be big, butwe have 12,000 people now.
(19:52):
And mainly because people arehelping people, so it's not me.
And they help people better becausethe people who just learned about
something and applied for itand got it, they're so excited.
You know, me, I've beendoing this for fifty years.
And when you have a basic problemI solved a thousand times, it's
hard for me to get excited.
(20:13):
But somebody who just got it andfound, hey, yeah, this stuff works.
Here's what I did.
You know, it's just a better match.
And the people are so important,they are members, they're paying
to do this, uh, because they feellike I do, the joy of giving.
So they have knowledge of somethingand they feel, um, uh, just a
(20:37):
wonderful gift of giving to somebody.
And it grows their heart.
I mean, my favorite subjectnow is, I'm growing my heart.
I'm not, at eighty-one, I'm notgoing to get smarter, faster,
stronger, any of those thingswe work on as guys in America.
And none of that is ever going toget better and globally decrease.
(20:59):
But I could love better andthat's the one thing I could keep
growing forever is loving people.
And wow, I mean, I couldn't even say theword a couple years ago, unless I married.
Ed Watters (21:18):
Yeah.
Well, that's a huge step,learning how to love.
Because in our world, we have somuch chaos, and misunderstanding,
and miscommunication.
We really are hurtingfor love in the world.
And I love the concept of people helpingpeople, it's one of my original taglines.
(21:44):
I believe in it 100%.
Yes, I used that several years ago.
And I believe it still today that ifwe believe in ourself, and we start
sharing ourself, others emulate that.
And that will grow, and, and we needso much more of that in our world.
Matthew Lesko (22:10):
Oh, definitely.
Uh, I mean, well, and it'sselfish, you know what I mean?
It's, I don't look likeI'm helping the world.
I guess I see the reaction ofpeople, but, but it's, my real
motivation is me, how it helps me.
It helps me walkingaround with an open heart.
I'm not even sure what that means, butI certainly feel something about that.
(22:32):
And the more it gets closed,the worse the day seems.
Uh, and the more I open theheart, the better the day seems.
And I, I don't even know whatopen and closed heart is, I know
I'm an asshole when it's closed.
Ed Watters (22:49):
We, we, we can all be there.
And, and you know, I started myjourney frustrated, angry, mad.
I had to develop that sense oflove and compassion, empathy, and
that, that's really how I startedto grow out of my own misery.
And I understood I'm not inthis alone and I really need
(23:15):
help to get where I need to go.
And I think really, people need tounderstand you can't do it all alone.
Even though I want to, I want todo everything myself, the hardest
part is reaching out, developingthe connection, and asking for help.
(23:35):
So, I think this is truly the gift thatyou're giving back to the world right now
is the ability to step into a community.
And they care because they'redoing the same thing as you and I.
Matthew Lesko (23:56):
Oh, the other thing I'm
doing too, I never thought I'd do, uh,
is I didn't know I'd be profitable.
Because I just wanted to make a,you know, uh, pay for my way.,
And it all become profitable andonly at ten to twenty dollars.
People were saying when I didsomething like this for financial
services, whatever, it hadto be hundreds and thousands.
But people that could afford that,
(24:17):
I didn't want to help.
I want to help peoplewho can't afford that.
And so I wanted to chargeonly twenty dollars.
And just about a year ago orso we started being profitable.
And now we give out $70,000every month to members.
And so our profits, we give it back topeople in either $500, a thousand dollars
(24:41):
in four different, uh, grants every month.
And God, I mean, I, I thoughtyou had to be Jeff Bezos to do
something like that or whatever.
But a schmuck like me fromWilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania is able
to do this is, uh, remarkable.
I mean, that, that, that's amazing.
Yeah, to me anyway.
(25:02):
I mean, in this world.
Ed Watters (25:05):
And that, that's that
selfishness that you're talking about.
Matthew Lesko (25:10):
Yeah.
That feels good, really.
And, because I think that's thebest way to try to change people or
whatever, or the only way we reallyhave, or maybe because I'm not,
I'm too dumb to think of any otherway, uh, is by example, you know?
If you, if you don't live that,um, uh, you have to create
(25:34):
the world you want to be in.
So you have to createyour own world that way.
If you're expecting other people thatdo that, you know, uh, and that's, yeah.
No, it's fun.
I, my favorite saying now is if Iknew eighty-one would be this much
fun, I would have got here sooner.
Why did I wait so long?
Ed Watters (25:59):
Yeah.
And that's why it's good to connectwith you because you get all of
that knowledge in a loving fashion.
And I think it's reallykey to existence anymore.
And I do have one more question I reallywant to kind of dive into with you.
(26:24):
We have a new administration coming in anda lot of people are very skittish about
grants and the money coming in, especiallywith the speculation of the DOGE, you
know, Department of Government Efficiency.
What are your thoughts on this?
And do you, after all of your yearsin service like this, do you think
(26:50):
that that is actually going away?
Matthew Lesko (26:53):
Uh, I'm not sure
what will go away, if anything.
I would just ignore it, just ignore it.
It's all wind, you know?
It's, everybody's, I mean, itmay happen a little, you know?
We got a big ocean liner here, you know,and, uh, the president has very little
(27:15):
control over the whole fucking thing.
He has a little bit control but thereare other people involved in doing it.
And I've been watching it forfifty years, every president.
The amount of money given outin grants and stuff grows every
year, no matter who's in power.
Next year, and it's alreadybaked in the system.
I mean, every year, uh, where is it?
(27:40):
Oh, here it is.
Here's, here's what'shappening for already 2025.
The budget is out, it's spending already.
Now we went from a total of, now thisis grants for individuals, from 4.
4 trillion to 4.
8 trillion.
It's going up.
(28:01):
And as soon as he, you know, takescontrol on the 20th of January, he's
going to give out more money in 2025than anybody, any president ever before.
Now again, he'll nibble around theedges, which could be important.
Because if you change an ocean linerjust one or two degrees off course,
(28:21):
you know, they miss the whole continentthey're looking for, you know?
2030.
So that, that's, that.
And so much of politics and marketingand, uh, I forget what they say.
It's mostly local, stick to thingslike, uh, you know, your Find Help
(28:42):
and talk to those people, they know.
Don't believe the Internetor anybody else, talk to the
people giving out the money.
And that's not Trump.
He doesn't write,
well, he writes some checks.
I don't know.
But it's mostly local, you want totalk to your local organizations.
You want to start a business,a non profit, or you have an
invention, um, you have somethingcalled, uh, AmericasSBDC.org.
(29:08):
Americas, A M E R I C A S, then SBDC.org.
And they will sit down with youno matter what county you're in,
even out wherever the heck you are.
And show you the money programs,help you think through any idea, give
you free legal help, marketing help,you know, publicity, anything you
(29:31):
need to grow yourself or a business.
And that's who you want to talk to,you want to talk to people like that.
Or you need help with, um, debt and thingslike that, you go and look for financial
counseling in, in, uh, findhelp.org.
And there'll be a dozeneven in where you are.
Uh, uh, that you make appointmentsand talk to these people and,
(29:55):
to get out of that trouble.
Because we carry around that worry,you know, particularly about debt
and stuff that I think makes, makespeople, people physically ill.
It's just what it doesto the inside somehow.
Uh, and you're waking up atnight or it doesn't go away.
The only way it's going to go awayis if you start talking to experts
(30:16):
that will help you for free.
Not people on Google becausethey want to get money from
you and you don't have money.
So you're just going to get morepissed that life isn't helping you.
Life is here to help you.
And actually, you know, the chart I showedyou, forty percent of the life that you
live in is here just to help you, 40%.
Who the fuck would ever think of that?
(30:38):
Yeah, I didn't until I startedlooking at the numbers.
Man, their, their job is to help you.
Not only your family, welive in a bigger family.
And because, like what we're sayingabout ourselves, Why do they help you?
Because it feels so good.
They're selfish bastards just like we are.
Ed Watters (31:00):
I love that.
Uh, you know, it's, it's a good talkthat we've had today and I'm sure it's
going to reach and help a lot of people.
Is there anything else that youfeel that we should add to our
conversation today before we let you go?
Matthew Lesko (31:18):
Uh, no, I'm very happy.
I hope to be here.
I just can't wait to get up inthe morning and do this again.
And I feel very, you know, God, justunusually special for some reason.
I've never thought of myself asbeing special at all, I still don't.
I'm just so grateful that I can dosomething every day that I enjoy
(31:42):
doing, and it may help people.
I think there is nothing better.
They give me a billion dollars, whatthe fuck am I gonna do with that?
Burn it for fuel?
I don't know.
It's what you do with your life, you know?
And then that's the important thing, youhave something to give to the rest of us.
And our mission is trying to findout what is that best part of us
(32:04):
that we can give the most so weenjoy doing it and helping others.
Ed Watters (32:09):
That's right.
Matthew, what's the best way forpeople to get in touch and get a
hold of this material that you have?
Matthew Lesko (32:17):
Uh, leskohelp.com.
L E S K O H E L P dot com.
Or YouTube.
I got thousands and thousands ofvideos on Matthew Lesko on YouTube.
Ed Watters (32:29):
Great.
Matthew, I want to say thankyou for sharing today with us.
It's been a delight.
I've, I've wanted to know all aboutthis for so many years and I got a
personal opportunity to share a littletime with a national icon, you rock.
And I want to say thank you foreverything that you do, sir.
Matthew Lesko (32:54):
Well, thank you.
Get on the phone in themorning, start calling.
All right, Ed, thank you so much.
Ed Watters (33:07):
Thank you
for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening,entertaining, educational in any way,
please share, like, subscribe, and joinus right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoyyour afternoon wherever you might be.