Christian Ethics in the Wild West of Cryptocurrency

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yo, it's Deadman walkin', steppin' to the light.
Greg Moore on the mic.
Keep the truth in sight.
Theology politics doctrine istight.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Reform on sharp cuttin' wrong from the right.
Current events with a biblicallens, where the word don't bend
and the truth defends.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Deadman walkin'.
We were lost in sin, but gracebroke chains.
Now the journey begins.
Yo yo yo.
Welcome everyone to the livestream.
Welcome to the walking podcast.
As always, you can find outmore about us at dmwpodcastcom

(00:54):
Coming to you on a special livestream.
Usually we pre-record, but thisweek we're doing it live, as we
say.
Guys, thanks for sharing with afriend, thanks for liking and
commenting and all the differentthings that you do to help us
grow.
We do appreciate it Got twofriends here.
I want to say up front, fulldisclosure.

(01:17):
We're going to be talking aboutBitcoin and 1689 coin and meme
coins and cryptocurrency and allthose things.
Is it biblical?
Is it Christian?
What, what?
What are we doing here in this,uh, 2025, as believers?
Um, and I we're.
We're probably gonna have somedisagreements here, but I do
want to keep it friendly.
Um, everyone who's watching orlistening, um, feel free to

(01:38):
comment.
We're going to get to maybequestions and answers uh, after,
but full disclosure.
I've had uh, both had bothJordan Bush and Chance Summers
on the podcast.
Before I call them both friends.
In fact, I think both of themhave sponsored the podcast in
some way or another in yearspast, so this is fun, but I

(01:58):
think we have some disagreementsbetween them.
And I said you guys just got tocome online and chop it up and
we'll hopefully create some goodcontent for the people
following and listening.
But we do have Chance Summersis the owner of 1689 Cigars,
majority owner of the 1689 coin,which will be of much
discussion tonight, and thenalso Jordan Bush, director of
Thank God for Bitcoin, author ofthe gospel according to Bitcoin

(02:21):
21 meditations, and I knowChance wanted to get into that
book a little bit as well too.
So maybe we'll hit it all.
But, like I said, this isinformal, not really debate, but
I do want to give you guys eacha chance to kind of tell the
people who you are, what youkind of represent and maybe what
you want to kind of cover onthis live stream, just for those
watching.
We're going to try to keep itto 60 minutes.

(02:42):
I don't want to go too muchlonger than that.
If we finish up before that,that's fine too.
But we're going to start withJordan and then we'll move to
Chance.
Jordan just give us a little Idon't know a couple minute intro
for us.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, I feel like a mosquito in the nudist colony,
right, that's kind of thesituation I find myself in.
There's so much we could talkabout in only my name is Jordan
Bush.
I was a pastor and churchpointing missionary living in
Montevideo, uruguay, for aboutseven years and then, near the
end of our time there, I endedup getting into Bitcoin and
basically just saw the ways andthe applications of Bitcoin and

(03:15):
all kinds of surprising, justways in terms of helping just
people who've had their currencydebased be able to save in a
way that governments can't takeaway, just to help nonprofit
organizations be able to justagain do the same thing saving
money framework that a lot ofpeople, including a lot of
people who don't care at allabout Jesus, they look at

(03:50):
Bitcoin and they look at thecrypto space and they see
something very different thanwhat I see and what I think
Christians ought to see, and sothat's kind of where I'm coming
at is you know there's you canlook at some of the space and
just think it's.
You know a lot of fun and gamesand, uh, you know potential to
to get rich quickly, and this iswhat a lot of people associate

(04:11):
with the space more broadly.
Uh, there's just a lot moregoing on, and so that's kind of
what I, that's kind of why Ireached out and thought it was
worth the time to talk.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So okay, chance, how about you Give us a little info,
give us a little origin storyor a little bit about what we're
talking about tonight?

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah.
So I think we had thisconversation come up because I
got some screenshots of a postthat you did about Judas would
make a meme coin, and then Ithought that would be hilarious
to actually talk about this.
And full disclosure.
You know, jordan's my friend aslong as he's not related to
George Bush.
I think I made that in acomment section.
Friend as long as he's notrelated to George Bush, I think

(04:46):
I made that in a comment section.
And so I was sitting in thecigar lounge and I thought, you
know, I've been talking aboutdoing a meme coin for months
with my buddies and I was like,hey, we'll just do it.
So we sent it, launched it, itgained some traction, and then
the ethics debate of are memecoins moral?
Is Bitcoin pure and meme coinsnot?
And things of that naturestarted sprouting, which I
didn't mean the start ofbrothers war, but apparently, uh

(05:09):
, that is what has transpiredover the last couple weeks.
So there's an origin story okay, first question for chance.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
I kind of want to know what.
What are we talking about whenwe say 1689 coin?
What is a meme coin?
For those who might not know?
Um, and, and then maybe, maybewe just get right to it and go
well, this is why I'm doing itand this is why I think it falls
within good Christianprinciples or biblical
principles.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah.
So a meme coin's digital arthas no essential value besides
what the community brings to it,and so there is no utility for
typical meme coins at the startof them.
And then, as they grow and theyget a backing, they move into
different utilities, such asDoge or Shiba Inu.
They can be used as a tippingsystem, things of that nature.
There's more things you can dowith Doge than you can with

(05:56):
Shiba.
And then you have Pepe, youhave all these other larger
coins that grow to billiondollar market caps.
That started off as meme coinsand then they become a community
and a system by which peoplecan use for monetary uh
purchases, things of that nature.
So 1689 coin is right now inconsidering of art.
It's not a mona lisa like dogewould be, it's more of like

(06:19):
grandma's finger painting.
And as it grows and people see,hey, this is actually a
beautiful project, then peoplewill buy in, be interested in it
and they enter into thecommunity and then eventually
there'll be utility uh that isimplemented into the coin okay,
and what do you mean by utility?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
just for those who might not know?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
yeah, so utility would be simplistic, like we
just implemented a thing on ourback end for some of our online
businesses between differentguys that are in the 1689 coin
chat, where they can accept 1689coin as a payment.
Obviously, when somebody accepts1689 coin, they have to bring
it to the blockchain, sell itand then convert it to USDA or

(07:00):
convert it to Bitcoin or convertit to XRP whatever whatever
coin that you're using at thatpoint or you can throw it into
like cryptocom and you canconvert it to Bitcoin or convert
it to XRP, whatever coin thatyou're using at that point or
you can throw it into cryptocomand you can convert it to cash
and put it on your debit card.
So there's a lot of uses formeme coins.
There's a lot of money in memecoins.
So Jordan is not without causeto say that people do think it's

(07:21):
a get-rich-quick scheme and insome instances, like the Hawk2A
coin, there was just one thatwas called the Worthless coin
that just went on, that had arug pull.
So there are a lot of dangers.
There's a lot of risk with memecoins and you can whatever you
invest in a meme coin, youdefinitely Oops.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh, I think you threw , it.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
It is super high.
Can you hear me now?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
We lost you for about the last 10, 15 seconds.
There You're getting a littlegrainy.
I'm not sure what's going on.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, so I was just saying that meme coins are like
volcanoes they can erupt and begreat or they can just stay
dormant and never do anything.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Okay.
So, Jordan, from your commentthat says you know Judas would
probably make a meme coin, itsounds to me like you're not a
fan uh.
Bitcoin but not a fan of maybesomething like this.
So where are you coming from onthis subject?
Yeah, so with.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
I do want to talk about that specific comment.
So I had seen and I've beenthinking about uh 1689 coin.
It did inspire the thought Uh,but I what I was not trying to
say is that chance is Judas,okay, like, what I'm saying is
Jude.
Like the whole point of memecoins, the reason they exist is
to create pump and dumpopportunities to make lots of
money very quickly with noeffort.

(08:30):
That's why these things werecreated in the first place.
Again, the vast majority ofthere's there's hundreds of
thousands of them and the vastmajority of them are worth
nothing.
They start out, they have apump and then they have a crash
and a very small group of thepeople who own the coin get
fabulously wealthy.
The rest of them are leftholding the bag full of
something that's worthless.
So, again, it's just the typeof thing that Judas would do.

(08:51):
We know Judas was stealing fromthe common purse, so Judas was
totally up for using hisposition as somebody who had an
advantage over the other peoplewhose money he had to uh, to
take advantage of it.
And so I've just was simplysaying that this is the exact
type of thing that Judas woulddo.
That does not mean that that isthat everyone who creates a, an

(09:13):
alt coin, is equally desiringto absolutely rug, uh, anyone
who's participating in and Idon't attribute to the fact that
chance or anybody else in thisproject uh, is trying to fully
rug anybody.
So that might hopefully, youknow, calm some of the, I don't
know, some of the disagreement,but like, I don't think that's
necessarily the case at all.
I think the thing that I wouldwant to ask is I mean, and the

(09:38):
thing that I just have observed,as somebody who is a Facebook
friend of chance and I just seethis, you know, see, I've seen
the, the, the project, if we cancall it that, like develop over
the last few weeks has justbeen kind of like, what is the
motivation for the, for theproject?
Because that seems to have likeevolved in some way, and maybe
it hasn't evolved, and that'sjust a function of.

(09:59):
You know, you can only talkabout certain things at certain
times.
So, kind of I just want to maybejust that'd be the most helpful
place, like what is, what isthe or what is was and is the
desire for the token, becauseinitially, the thing, you know,
you came out and said, hey, thisthing has no value.
You know, feel free, just toknow that it's super volatile.
You could, you know you couldlose everything you put your

(10:20):
money in.
And then there's been moretalked about where now we're
going to give it utility byputting it into the ecosystem,
we're going to let you pay onour website, we're going to let
you pay on this conference, andso just the way that it's being
talked about, it seems to bemoving from hey, this is totally
a joke that has no valuewhatsoever, this is a scam, to

(10:42):
now there is this utilityfunction that is talked about
seemingly with a desire toencourage more participation in
it, and so that's kind of whereI start to get more
uncomfortable, especially givensome of the things that are
being said, where, again, someof these are memes and this is,
I would imagine, just jokes.
But for people who are justcoming across these things I

(11:03):
talk with people all the timewho have no concept and no
understanding ofcryptocurrencies.
They don't know why one is morevaluable than the other it all
just seems like pretty arbitrary.
And so when they see somethinglike I believe it was 1689 coin
account, which apparently Ithink you said you don't
actually control the account,but somebody posted it,
basically said that 1689 coin isbetter than Bitcoin.

(11:27):
Bitcoin is a boomer coin.
It's an old coin.
Don't deal with that boomerthing.
Buy into, get on the groundfloor of this.
The next new thing Again,obviously there are people in
your circles who fullyunderstand and appreciate that
you're joking, I think, but thenthere's other people who just
don't know, and so they're, youknow, tempted to maybe believe

(11:49):
something like that.
And so, again, it's the peoplewho are potentially going to get
rugged.
And even if you're notintending that and you wouldn't
do that which I'm again notattributing you're, you're
having a desire to do that orsaying that you would do that,
but that is something that iscertainly there and so, yeah,
that's kind of.
So maybe just answer thatquestion Like what?
Is this something that, in yourmind, has evolved over time,

(12:11):
the purpose of it, or has thisbeen something that you've kind
of wanted to from the verybeginning?
You said thought we couldimplement into our ecosystem?

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, so I'm guessing you're familiar with meme coins
, right?

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, are you talking to me or Greg?
Yeah, to you, jordan.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
And so the meme coin can be that of a mosquito or it
can have longevity, and so thecommunity is what drives a meme
coin.
So when you have 50, 60 guysmessaging you saying, hey, I
want to implement this somehowin my business or I want to
implement this somehow in this,you don't put out the fire.
You let them do what they wantto do.

(12:47):
It's a natural progression,just like Bitcoin.
Natural progression of Bitcoinis growing to be utility things
of that nature.
And then you say things likethis is a previous conversation
we had earlier today thatBitcoin can't be manipulated by
one person.
But there are instances wherepeople have pulled 5,000 Bitcoin

(13:08):
, manipulated the market down to.
I think it was like 63K and thenit went down to 58K and then
they bought in from that samewallet at that 58K to go back up
.
So the Bitcoin and the memecoin market can be manipulated,
but it's at a very mass scale,and when you think of Bitcoin,
it's controlled by 92,.
92% of Bitcoin is controlled by10 wallets or 10 companies I, I

(13:32):
don't know what that is.
I think it's 10 companies andso like there's an 8% that owns
Bitcoin, and then if you don'tthink those 10% can manipulate
the coin, you're absolutelyludicrous, like you're crazy.
So I think the argument is doyou manipulate it at a small
amount or a large amount?
And it can it be done?
Is is yes, both meme coin andBitcoin can in some sense be

(13:55):
manipulated, and so a lot ofpeople say, hey, a meme coin can
be manipulated.
If I were to pull out what Ihad in there, it would tank the
coin.
So I don't see the differencein crypto.
Besides, I did read some of yourworks where you're saying that
Bitcoin is produced by energy.
It has a cap.
There are certain things thatthere's actually working on it,

(14:18):
but when you have a project likethis, there's people that are
working on this.
They're building website,they're building out bots,
they're building out things thatare very good for the ecosystem
.
1689 coin.
So people are actually workingand I don't think you can
determine value because a coinis mined and uses energy.
I think it's by what you laborwith.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Sure, yeah.
So my pushback on that would bethe problem with this
particular coin and this appliesto all coins basically is that
there is a monopoly on thecreation of the supply.
You are the only person who cancreate, who is able to create
new units of this currency.
So you had a monopoly on this.
You created 1689 coin with, Ibelieve, a billion coin cap,

(15:01):
with, I believe, a billion coincap.
I think you had to.
Based on my understanding ofMoonshot, the platform in which
you build it, you had to givethem like 11 point some odd
percent of the tokens and theyprovided liquidity into the
ecosystem.
As far as I can tell, do youhave your coins, your 23.8% or
whatever?
Do you have those coins in likea cold, like a, like cold

(15:27):
wallet or something, or like ain your own wallet there?
It's not actually in the.
It's not actually liquid in thein the marketplace.
Is that correct?

Speaker 1 (15:32):
no, so I I bought in with, with the exact same amount
that moonshot entered in withokay so I do have the liquidity
in there and I do have the coinsmixed up on different wallets
just for security purposes, justjust in case something gets
compromised.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Sure, so you, but you do.
You do still own 23.8% of the.
That's kind of where you're at.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I guess the question I meanthe reason why I asked this
question, why I think it matters, is because the the the thing
that I saw in the very beginningthat really concerned me was I
and I can share my screen.
Is that do you me?
Was I can share my screen.
Am I allowed to share my screen?
Is that possible?

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, we can figure it out.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Let me see if I can do it here.
I'll try it here.
Oh, let's see, that's not goingto do it.
All right, it doesn't look likeI can do it.
Anyhow, there's one.
I can just pull it up and lookat it and then describe it to
you.
Just pull it up and look at itand then describe it to you and
I can post it later if need be,if anybody doubts me.
But so this is on July 13th.
You have a picture of JohnCalvin riding a bull looking at

(16:33):
an image of 1689 coin, and itsays this I think we are all
bullish on 1689 coin.
Imagine that by next month wehave hit our million dollar
market cap and you drop a fatoffering in the church plate.
And so when I first saw thisthis is the reason that I just

(16:54):
started to be more vocal aboutthis issue I hadn't mentioned
anything about it.
Again, these projects are adime a dozen, but the fact that
this was a project that seemedto be targeted at Reformed
Baptists or people who arefamiliar with the 1689
confession, like that, was onething.
I was like I don't know, Idon't like this.
But then when you, when youstart to see when in you know,

(17:14):
when you're describing like afuture goal of reaching a market
of a million dollar market caplike there's, you're putting
numbers on this and then talkingabout desiring to reach that
point so that either you orsomeone could then sell the
token and withdraw liquidity andthen put that in with the
justification of putting in theoffering plate.
It just demonstrates thatthere's thought being had about

(17:38):
an exit and a withdrawal ofliquidity that can only come
from other people who hold thetokens.
So this is not like it's a zerosum game in the altcoin world.
So in order for some to win,others have to lose because at
the end of the day, nobodyactually wants this token,
nobody actually values thistoken.

(17:59):
That's just the reality ofthese things.
So when I saw that, I startedjust to.
I mean, that's where I startedto get more concerned, because
that's a very different storyand talking about an exit and
talking about an exit plan,that's a very different thing
than saying, hey, we're justgoing to start this as a joke
and then we're going toimplement this into our
ecosystem and so it's actuallygoing to have a purpose.

(18:21):
We have a long vision here,rather than just a quick like
pump and dump.
Now, when I see this, this andI can, I can and you can feel
free to describe whether or notyou think this is accurate.
My understanding like when Ithink about your involvement in
this project.
Here's what I don't think.
I don't think you for a momentwant to actually rug, pull your

(18:42):
friends and other people.
I don't think you want to dothat.
I think your hope was to getthis thing big enough where you
could withdraw and some of these, you could sell some of your
tokens and make money and itwouldn't actually affect the
life of the whole project.
Because that's why a lot ofpeople get into these things
they want to make some money.
And again, there's a place formaking money.
I don't think there's anything.

(19:03):
There's nothing illegitimateabout making money at all, but
in this kind of a system likethis is a very different system
than if I provide you, if I wereto grow a, you know, if I were
to provide a service, if I wereto start a company, and then I
create stock shares in mycompany and I sell them to you.
I'm actually selling you sharesof something that actually
exists and something thatactually is a business.

(19:24):
It's something that has someoversight to it.
If it's stocks on the, on the,uh, on the, you know, whatever
it is, nasdaq or whatever thingyou want to have, the danger
with with alt coins and meancoins is that there's, there's
almost no oversight preventingpeople from just being able to
rug and take money from frompeople.
Uh, and there, you know, there,there's just not, it's, there's

(19:47):
not anything actually of valueother than the thing that's, you
know, the, the fact thatthere's movement in and out of
the of the ecosystem, and so,again, I think there's, I think
there's re, there's, there's areasonable, it would be
reasonable for people to beskeptic, to be what's the word.
I'm trying to go skeptical,skeptical and to to reconsider,

(20:07):
to think about.
Wait a second, he's alreadytalking about exiting.
Is he trying to rug us?
I don't think that's whatyou're actually trying to do,
but I would forgive people who,not knowing you, would think
that.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Chance.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well, yeah, I mean that's one post, it's a lot of
reading into it and I could seeyour perspective.
You know we have a group ofguys.
Like you said, nobody wants thecoin.
I would say that's not true.
There are people who are buyingthe coin and they want the coin
, and so there is a group ofguys that do that.
And so you know, obviously,before we had this conversation,

(20:43):
I started looking up certainthings.
And so you know, obviously,before we had this conversation,
I started looking up certainthings.
You know, when we have theBitcoin and then you have 1689
coin and you make like for me.
When I see you know a bookwritten the gospel according to
Bitcoin, I think of like he'strying to pull from MacArthur's
section, you know, going towardsthe MacArthurite guys and then

(21:04):
using Bitcoin to equivalent tothe gospel, there's some red
flags for me.
When I see those things, Ithink, oh, that's borderline
blast of me.
When I think about that I wouldhave to read the book to see
whether, if it's not, I did asynopsis.
I got the the first, I think,four devotionals for free.

(21:24):
So I could do.
I could do the.
I could be very critical to youand have no charity and say,
wow, dude, that's completelyretarded.
Or I could say I see what he'strying to do.
There there's scarcity, so likelimited atonement can apply.
I can see what you're trying todo.
I don't know if you did that,but but you know, I'm just, I'm
just kind of like throwing thatout there because I have no idea

(21:45):
.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah, and that's a fair pushback in terms of like,
at least on the surface.
Again, this book is designed.
So we wrote this book, thatbook in particular, just to
outline what it is, we basicallyso Thank God, for Bitcoin is
the other book that we wrote,which is largely just a
repackaging and like a reframingof Gary work, gary North's book
, honest money.
So the vast majority of thebook we just talk about like,

(22:09):
what is money?
Why does that matter?
And then the last two chaptersof the book we just talk about
how, basically, bitcoinbasically takes all of those
principles that something likegold or something like silver,
all these principles that makegood money, and the Bitcoin
basically is it just builds onthose things, took all of those
things and packaged them in a,in a digital form, and does that
.
So again, the goal was to helpChristians, a broad Christian

(22:30):
audience, understand why thesethings.
You know what Bitcoin is andwhat it's trying to do.
We don't.
We don't do anything in termsof talking about you should go
buy this.
We just this is basically likeinformational.
This is what it does.
This is why that matters.
Now, at the same time, there's abunch of Christians in this
community, in the in the Bitcoinworld, and many of them
desperately want to share thegospel with people who are in

(22:54):
the Bitcoin world, becausethere's people in the Bitcoin
world who value Bitcoin and whowho you know, rekha and I mean
in many cases they unhealthilyvalue Bitcoin.
They look at Bitcoin and theylook at how it's changed their
lives.
They look at how all thesedifferent properties that are
different from fiat currency andmuch better than fiat currency,
and they're tempted toattribute far too much value to

(23:17):
this otherwise good tool.
And so this book the GospelAccording to Bitcoin was
designed to basically do whatJesus does with money, which is.
He talks about it a lot, buthis point in talking about it is
to point to people to the thingthat is far more valuable than
the money itself.
He basically says money existsin order to point to the thing
that is of ultimate value, whichis me, according to Jesus, and

(23:41):
which is his father.
So one example of one of the,and so that's what this book
does.
And so one of the chapters ofthis book, just to give you an
idea when I first got intoBitcoin, it talks about this.
The chapter does when I firstgot into Bitcoin, I tried to
send a small amount of Bitcoin acouple hundred dollars.
I included a very small fee inorder to incentivize the miners
to include that transaction inthe next block.

(24:02):
I did not include enough of afee in order to do so, and so my
transaction got lost andbasically, just, it didn't go
through.
So a couple of weeks later, Ichecked my wallet.
It hadn't gone through, and soI thought to myself oh no, I
broke Bitcoin, and so I had theprivilege of being able to reach
out to one of my buddies who'sone of the most trusted people
in the industry.
I asked him what had happenedand he said oh, he's like you

(24:25):
just need to do a child pays forparent transaction.
He's like that's all you needto do.
So, basically, you send anidentical transaction from the
same wallet to the same wallet,you include just a little bit
more of a fee, and that secondtransaction will knock the first
transaction through and yourmoney will get to where you want
it to go.
So I did it, it worked, andthen I stopped being a

(24:46):
missionary, being a pastor inUruguay, and I thought to myself
holy cow, that is the samelogic of the gospel, because God
sends mankind into the world,we fall short of the goal that
he had, we fall short of theglory of God.
And then how does God resolvethis?
He sends the last Adam to gointo the world and he doesn't

(25:06):
fall short.
He actually fulfills allrighteousness and because he
makes it to the transaction, heactually fulfills the
transaction for which God sendshim.
We're able to benefit as well,we go through those of us who
put our faith in Christ.
So, again, the point of thebook is just to be an apologetic
resource and if you read it,you like, that will be painfully

(25:27):
obvious, uh, much to thechagrin of many unbelievers who
will, um, unbelieving bitcoinerswho will pick up the book
thinking it's somethingdifferent, and then find that
they're, uh, having the gospelshared with them.
So, uh, so that's again.
I get the confusion that peoplehave had.
You're not the first person toto make that point.
Uh, that's, that's what it isand why it's got that name.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
So let me.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Oh, go ahead Chance.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
No, no, you go ahead.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I was going to circle back to something we started at
the beginning of the stream,but if you wanted to respond to
that, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
No, I mean that.
I think that's the way that youshould look at his book in.
In Christian make a mean coin.
I do think there is a certainamount of like scrutiny that's
pointed at me that the communitythat I I run with was like that
guy's an idiot and and theyprobably all still still think
that.
And I'm gonna be honest, youknow so.

(26:14):
So the the understanding of youknow what.
What if in 10 years, we startedthe 1689 coin project and then
it continues to grow like an xrpproject?
Obviously we know it's onsolana, it's not on a base block
, like we haven't built it out?
But what if we start buildingout something that is is great,
good, beautiful, all thosethings that we want it to be,

(26:35):
and then you sit back and youlook like, all right, they built
out an ecosystem.
You talk about bitcoin beingable to be transferred across,
you know, foreign borders.
1689 coin can have the samevalue well, obviously not the
same value as Bitcoin, but itcan be transferred across
borders, things of that natureas well.
So I do think there ispotential for 1689 coin to be

(26:57):
very viable.
At the beginning, yeah, itstarted off as a meme.
I put Calvin on some kind ofbull and said and that was all
tongue in cheek-cheek, right andso the?
And then I saw the communityget behind.
It's just like bitcoin.
I mean, I was mining bitcoin in2012.
My, my wife corrupted a harddrive.
I didn't have my code backed upand so

(27:19):
there's four bitcoins, some uhsome landfill somewhere, that in
100 years somebody's going tomake some technology and they're
going to go digital gold miningand find it.
So I mean, I do see theviability of Bitcoin, I do see
the blessing that Bitcoin can be, but I also can think that a
meme coin can do that as welland it can grow.
And I would say that the memecoin has grown completely

(27:42):
organic.
This has been nothing of my own.
People made social mediasbefore I even knew they had them
.
They were building a websitebefore I even knew what was
going on.
And now you have a community ofreformed Christian brothers and
some are not reformed in thegroup, but there's a community
of Christian brothers that arebuilding out a meme token and
you can go look at our chart, golook at our chart and go look

(28:04):
at every other meme coin and youhave a pump and dump.
Our chart has done this.
So you have the beginningstages.
It dumps down and now it hasgradually grown.
It's exactly what what bitcoindid at the beginning.
It just gradually grew becausethe community grew around it.
Obviously, there's a differencebetween the market cap.
There's a difference between.
You know, there's 21 millionBitcoin and that's it.

(28:26):
Uh, we can't make any more.
I I guess we could if we wantedto go in on the back and on the
coding side of it, but we'renot going to make any more of
1689 coin, that's.
That's the cap 1 billion.
So you know there's a lot ofquestions that in my mind, have
been answered.
And then I would like to throwthis at you, jordan Do you think
Bitcoin is the purest form ofmoney in the world right now?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Man, it's such a I don't even know.
Again, the question would bewhat is the standard by which we
would even answer that kind ofa question?
So I don't even the purest typeof money.
I just I don't even know how toanswer that, but, again, I
guess.
The question that I would have,though, is, I mean, number one.
There are important things thatdifferentiate Bitcoin from 1689
coin, right Like there's one, Imean effectively one person,

(29:11):
unless you've shared thiscontrol or ownership of this
thing with other people.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Let me just jump in real quick for you.
Okay, for transparency, one ofmy elders in my church holds a
big portion of the folder or ofmy wallet for complete reason of
control, like I could dumpright now and I could make a
thousand X of what I had, and soyeah, so there is legitimate

(29:38):
walls that are put up so thatthe money can't just be
liquidated.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Great, and, again, that's what I'm saying.
I'm not saying, I'm notequating Chase with some of the
worst actors in this space.
I hope this is clear.
I'm not saying that, again,this is something you're
desiring to do.
What I do want to point out isit's something that is possible,
right, it would be possible foreither you or your elder, or I
mean in this case, unless you'resaying you don't have access to

(30:03):
it.
I don't have access to thatwallet at all.
So, yeah, so again, all I'msaying is it's at least possible
, and that is something that isnot possible with Bitcoin, just
due to the fact that, again, theway that Bitcoin came, the way
that Bitcoin enters the world,is through a process that's open
.
There was no pre-mine withBitcoin the way that there was a
pre-mine with 1689 coin andwith every other coin that

(30:25):
exists, so that this is that's a.
That's just a fundamentaldifference.
Again, you actually have toexpend real energy in the form
of mining or you have to, youknow, buy it from somebody who's
already done this process.
So there is a control.
There are controls that existwithin Bitcoin to differentiate
it in ways that are differentthan 1689 coin.
The other thing that I wanted topoint out and I, again, I just

(30:47):
had to do my research and do alittle more research on on
Moonshot, which is the platformthat you know you built the coin
on, and again, part of you, theyour stated justification for
doing that was it was one of theeasiest places to you know,
start the coin up, which, again,I get that Like it there's,
there's.
It makes sense to want to dosomething that, especially if
it's something in an ecosystemthat you're not super familiar

(31:08):
with, like you'd want to have aneasier way to start this thing
up.
That makes sense to me.
But one of the things that I,in doing some research and
talking to actually I have otherfriends shout out to Ryan who
basically are more familiar withthe meme coin space and these
kinds of things than I was.
I just basically was like, hey,how does this work?

(31:32):
And he just basically pointedout the.
He just said this is just likea because of it's so, because
it's so small, he's like, he'slike this there's a.
It's a really risky project toto put money into because, even
if the project creatorsthemselves are like the greatest
people in the world, the factthat this project is open to
anybody, for anybody to buy.
It means that there is thepossibility that, even
independent of the creatorsdoing anything nefarious you
know your pastor does everythingabove board and whatever like

(31:54):
there can be other people whocome in and buy up you know
tokens and then they can exitwith the liquidity the existing
liquidity that's in the coin.
That then would require, inorder for you know anybody else
who holds tokens, they wouldhave to put in more of their own
money In this case, solana orwhatever it is.
They would have to put more oftheir own we'll call it real

(32:15):
money or more real money.
Whatever it is.
They would have to put morecurrency into it in order to
either get their own money outor, in the case of even the most
charitable actors, to allowother people to get their money
out.
So here's one example of this.
This has happened a bunch oftimes, but there was one crypto

(32:36):
project I can't remember thename where this started to
happen.
The coin project creatorsthemselves didn't rug people,
but there's traders who look forprojects like this.
They look for projects to to,you know, to basically get in,
buy a whole bunch of money, pumpthe price and then exit with as
much liquidity as they can.

(32:56):
And so this is what happened inthe case of this coin and the
the founders of the coin, feltawful because they were.
They wanted to create an actualsustainable project.
They, they want.
They didn't want people to getripped off.
They wanted there to be anactual sustainable project.
They, they want.
They didn't want people to getripped off.
They wanted there to be anactual community and all these
kinds of things.
And yet, because it was able tobe get, the system was able to
be gamed and rugged by somebodywho was not part of their

(33:16):
community, who was an awfulperson.
Uh, they, they kept gettingrugged, and so the, the founders
of the project, kept putting inmore of their own money into
the project and it kept gettingrugged, and so, at the end of
the day, they ended up losingmillions and millions of dollars
.
And so, at the end of the daythis is my concern is, again, I
am not angry and do not begrudgechance.

(33:38):
Anything like this iswhatsoever.
Uh, this my concern is for thename of Christ, you know, for
the, for the name of Christ tobe, you know to be affiliated
with something that, evenwhether it's through malice or
just weakness, is able to begamed and could see people who
don't understand this get rugged.
Um, that's one thing.

(33:59):
And then, on top of that, again, I, I just yeah, this, this
prog uh product, and you know,whatever it is, this uh, the,
the, the, the uh project, that'sthe word I'm looking for.
The project, again, is just, issuch where the, the motives of,
of everyone involved areconstantly put to a test.

(34:19):
Uh, because the end game I justI don't understand.
Like, what is the end game forthis chance?
Like, do you, when you see Ibelieve you, you said you
initially put in four grand, uh,is that true?

Speaker 1 (34:30):
yeah, so I I've about 12 grand into the coin now.
Okay, that's, that's where I'mat cool.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
So so was your.
Your goal is like put in fourand you know, or 12, I guess,
put in 12 and your goal is justkind of leave that in there
forever in order to add inliquidity or, you know, create
an ecosystem and then to be ableto use, be used as currency to
buy tickets to conferences orused on your websites and all
that kind of stuff.

(34:55):
Or is there at some point inthe future where, if the project
got big enough, you'd want topull some liquidity out?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
So I mean, to be honest, the, the project's
growth was pretty cool overnight.
You know, I didn't really Ididn't really realize it was
going to be like that.
So I had to obviously talk tothe legal about certain things,
I had to go through an extensiveabout that, and then what ends
up happening is everybodystarted getting behind it.
So I would say, a project ebbsand flows.

(35:23):
It's organic.
It's not one of those thingsjust like bitcoin.
It's been an organic projectfrom from the beginning.
So, as the project, I can'tgive any kind of specifics like,
all right, if it grows of this,obviously it's going to be
accepted at some conferences.
Obviously, uh, here in thefuture, once I've built out the
back end coding on certainwebsite platforms, you're going

(35:44):
to be able to spend it on cigars, things, things of that nature.
So there will be utilityimplemented into the coin, and
so longevity of a coin isdetermined by hype, community or
utility.
You don't want just hype andcommunity.
You want to have access toactually use your money.
You don't want this to belocked up and you can't use it,
and so there are many peoplethat are in the signal chat that

(36:09):
already trade this coin backand forth for actual, tangible
products.
So there is a utility there,but at the end of the day it's
still just a meme coin that maysprout wings and have a larger
and broader impact.
And so we also have another guyI think it's Matthew, he's in
our chat and he did a just aquick synopsis of if all of the

(36:33):
reformed Christian world wouldget behind one coin whether it's
meme coin, whether it's Bitcoin, whether it's whatever the
impact on that monetarily wouldbe so large that those who would
try to rug it would be like a10 to 5% rug every time that
would get rugged, so peoplereally wouldn't get hurt.
Quote unquote, like you'resaying.

(36:54):
And then also, I think there'sa difference between walking and
going to the blackjack standand understanding that you are
going to play a hand and youhave a potential to lose your
money.
We've never said you're goingto triple, double, quadruple
your money on this.
So everybody that's in thisproject is complicit.
They're grown men, grown womenbuying onto a project that they

(37:20):
are complicit with, and so it'snot like we're standing at them
and holding them at gunpoint andsay, if you don't do this, you
die.
So there's complicity there andthere's been multiple people who
have bought into the coin andthen exited and have made money.
There's been people who havebought into the coin and lost
money and then the community hascome around them and made them
whole.
So I would say that theChristian community and the

(37:40):
ethics are there.
It would take close to amillion dollars to jump into the
coin, for the coin to be rugged, like you're saying.
But if somebody puts in amillion dollars, everybody knows
if they're going to rug us.
If they're not a part of ourgroup, they're not a part of the
community, everybody's justgoing to pull on them and they

(38:00):
get rugged.
And so there are safeguardsthat are set up for the user,
especially inside of ourcommunity, and we've taken care
of our community, and so there'ssome differences there.
Also, we're not Andrew Tate,we're not the pagans.
You know, we're Christians andso you have ethics and morals.
And if I were to just rugeverybody, do you think all my

(38:22):
other businesses would survive?

Speaker 3 (38:23):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
No, obviously not.
Like that's yeah 100%, yeah100%.
No, obviously not.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I obviously don't Go ahead.
I was going to say very quicklytoo, just to keep it light you
said you've got 1689 where youcould go to conferences and
cigars.
If you can just get us bourbon,I think most Reformed
Presbyterians and Baptists would.
Just we'll abandon the dollarfor that.
That's all we really needconferences, cigars and bourbon,
right, but I wanted to jumpback to something earlier in the
conversation.
So it sounds like to me, jordan, you're really concerned about

(38:52):
this because of, like, the riskor the lack of safeguards.
Right, and I want to side withyou on the Judas comment.
I understand what you weretrying to say there, because
probably 95% of these type ofcoins are pump and dumps right,
the co-host of this podcast.
For the first two and a halfyears he was a.
He's a day trader.
He knows all about this.
They pump and dump in pennystocks and under dollar stocks

(39:15):
and right, and all these things.
The only pushback I would giveto that and tell me what you
guys think about this is as a,as a Christian, aren't we
supposed to have wisdom anddiscernment in any investment,
any stewardship of our money?
Shouldn't we go in with eyeswide open?
When I invest in the market, Iknow people who have pumped and
dumped Bitcoin on a smallerscale, right, if someone came to

(39:36):
you and said I bought $20,000worth of Bitcoin and then a week
later it was worth 80 grand, soI sold it.
I needed that 60,000.
You'd go great job, right.
So I'm kind of wondering.
I don't know if I could placeit all on.
Just, it's very risky.
Well, there's a lot of stuffthat's starting my real estate
business while having asix-figure job with full health

(39:57):
insurance was risky.
Everyone thought I was an idiot.
You know what I mean.
When my first kid was sixmonths old oh, I'm going to go
start a business, right.
So it's like I don't know ifrisk can be the excuse.
If, also, as Christians, we'recalled to go, hey, we gotta be
discerning about where we'regonna put our money, and once we
do, and if we lose it, that'son us, right.
And I understand what you'resaying, jordan.

(40:17):
Make sure you go in with eyeswide open.
I would just say, in chancesdefense, there, you go to the
website and it's pretty clearlike we're not promising
anything.
This is what we're trying to doStart a community.
Maybe in the future it'll haveutility.
Be willing to lose money if it,if it goes upside down?

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah.
And so, again, there, there'sno problem with risk.
Like this is, again, we know,the parable of the, parable of
the talents, where you have theunrighteous and you know you
have the stewards, who,basically the guys who take the
risk are the one who are, arethe ones who are rewarded and
commended, and the one whoburies his talent is the one who
is basically mocked.
And so again.
But at the same time, we wantto recognize that not all risk
is created equal, and so, again,there's things that go around

(40:59):
yeah, like there's foolish risk,there's folly, and then there's
obviously risk that is worthdoing.
And so the question is where dowe draw the line?
How do we differentiate betweenthat and the case that I wanted
to make from the beginning, andthis is largely my, my, my
pushback, uh is basically thequestion is the thing that the
governing principle behind whichwe ought to be considering in,
in, through which the filterthrough which we ought to be

(41:21):
filtering all of these things,uh, is the great commandment.
All right, it's.
Does this love and honor God?
And does this love and honor myneighbor?
Now, my, to jump right to it,like I, like the, the, the
prospect of creating somethingout of thin air, creating,
creating a project out of thinair, and then, you know,
basically selling these tokensthat I, you know that just were

(41:41):
created, I arbitrarily chose theamount of them, we put them out
there and then the only waythat I can actually benefit from
this, from this, you know, theonly way that I can benefit from
this transaction is if I getmoney from, is if I win at the
expense of somebody else, right?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
So the US dollar.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Sure, sure, exactly which I think we both agree.
We don't really like that.
I would take Bitcoin over USDany day.
Correct and so.
But this is a great point,exactly so.
What I'm not saying is that weshouldn't.
Are we all hypocrites for usingthe dollar?
Sure, okay, great.
The point is, we have to usethe dollar, we have to pay taxes

(42:22):
in dollars, like this issomething that we have to.
We don't have to then create,basically, mini versions of the
Federal Reserve, which is whataltcoins are.
You know, basically and this iswhere it comes out of Bitcoin
being a differentiator.
Because, again, and this is whyI asked Chase in the beginning,
why did 1689, why did youcreate 1689 coin?
Because we know why Bitcoin wascreated.

(42:43):
We know what motivated thecreators At least we know their
stated motivation and we can see, based on the choices that they
made in how the monetarynetwork works, the fact that
even the creator, satoshiNakamoto, didn't give himself a
pre-mine.
He didn't give himself theability to unilaterally change
rules about the project.

(43:04):
Anyone who runs a Bitcoin nodehas the ability to vote and make
decisions, so he purposely gaveaway the ability to basically
be in a position to rug otherpeople to act in a way that
wasn't in line with the interestof the other people in the
network.

(43:24):
Again, we know that Bitcoin wascreated, basically on the
Bitcoin Talk Forum, within thefirst couple of weeks.
I believe the first few monthswas in February.
Satoshi basically said theproblem with the existing
financial system is all of thetrust that's required to make it
work.
And so, again, this is theproblem you have to trust the
government not to hyperinflatethe currency, create a bunch of

(43:46):
units while you're holding yourcurrency units and thereby
devalue them.
There's all of this kind oftrust that has to take place.
All of those same problems thatexist with the dollar are also
true of 1689 coin, of everyother coin that's out there, and
so again.
So the question is we know whyBitcoin is created.
Bitcoin is created to be analternate, parallel system that

(44:08):
gets rid of a lot of thedisadvantages that exist within
the fiat system.
The question is why do theseother projects exist?
If it's to be a utility, wellthen, okay, that's one thing,
but again, that's kind of why Iraised the issue.
When we're immediately in theearly days of this thing, raised

(44:29):
the issue when we'reimmediately in the early days of
this thing, talking aboutpulling money out already.
That, just again, it doesn'tinspire confidence, especially
the type of confidence that'sgoing to be required if you're
going to try to get, if you'retrying to get the project to a
million dollar market cap.
Because I mean, based on kind ofwhat you said, the question is
like, do you want it to get to amillion dollar market cap or no
?
Because if it got to a milliondollar market cap, you would

(44:51):
attract a lot more attentionfrom people who would be bad
actors and be tempted to rugpeople, right?
And so I just feel like, again,it's whether or not that's
whether or not that's immoralI'm not trying to argue, it's
immoral is.
It seems like it's going to putyou and other people who are in
this project.
It's going to put you guys in aweird situation with
conflicting desires, based onyour desire to you to not get

(45:14):
rugged and the desire to not rugother people.
Like it just seems like that'skind of the situation that is
destined to happen, even in thebest case, where this thing does
become more popular and thatkind of stuff.
I just feel like it's puttingyou in a situation that that, uh
, you know a Christian which Itotally think you are like just
wouldn't, wouldn't want to be in.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, I mean, what's, what's your eschatology?
I just want to ask thatquestion real quick, oh man,
this is, I'm, I'm, I'm,basically I haven't.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
this is one of these things I am, I'm like,
sympathetic.
I'm still haven on-mill andpost-mill.
It's on the roadmap for me justto go full hardcore and do the
big deep dive through the PeterLightheart two-volume revelation
commentary and some otherthings.
So yeah, I don't think you'regoing to find much help.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, no, that answered my question.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I'm very optimistic.
On-mill, sure, I would say.
Those who risk are those whoare rewarded, and so a lot of
times this is a major risk.
You know, when I did this itwas kind of tugging cheek and
then it took a life of its own.
And so now that it's taken alife of its own, I'm going to
stand, you know, on my two feetand say here it is and this is
where we're at.

(46:25):
And so if it does hit a millionmarket cap, you know some
people will exit and some, ifthey do tithe, they will give um
more money to their church andget on them.
But when it comes to the devs Imean, that's technically what
where we'd be called this coinis is the devs are going to stay
and we're going to keep onbuilding.
And you know it's aconversation go back and laugh

(46:48):
at and, uh, you know, you end upeating crow because we built
out a really good project, youknow.
So that's, that's obviously my,my ultimate goal.
Um, you know, there there's alot of players like I was at um,
let's see, I was at one of thegalas for trump's inauguration
and uh, dog with hat I don'tknow if you know who he is uh,
it's a meme coin.
It's I think it's like the 10thlargest meme coin.

(47:09):
He was there and they were.
They were trading meme coins,and so this is where the idea
was birthed.
Uh was actually sitting downtalking with some of those guys
and I mean I watched him he's achristian.
I watched him, you know, pullhalf a million dollars out in 50
minutes of playing coins.
And he wasn't rug pulling, hewas just in some of the major
ones at the time.
I actually think it was XRPthat he was playing, and so

(47:33):
there's a lot of risk that isinvolved in mean coins.
But if you're optimistic, allmill, or if you're post mill,
this is right up your alley ofgetting involved in and doing
these things, and we've beencompletely transparent.
We've been honest.
You can go look at the blogpost that I posted on my 1689
Cigars website and you can seethat there's been completely

(47:55):
transparency.
And if anybody were to getfooled and to think we were
literally saying that 1689 coinis better than Bitcoin, I would
say you're kind of foolish andyou are a boomer at that point.
You know that is what that is.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
So well, that's encouraging.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Uh, we very quickly can I interject here because
ryan does any do either.
You guys know a ryan tames I do.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, ryan was the ryan who I shouted out earlier.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Okay so he's been asking a question in the chat
maybe we can get an answer tothis is where does that?
Well, he's basically saying ifI want to invest $100,000 into
1689 coin right now, where doesthe liquidity come from?
Who's going to give me that?
And people said, well, you know, it's sitting at 350,000,
375,000 market cap.
And he's saying, no, you're notanswering my question, so maybe

(48:45):
I'm not seeing it right.
But he's saying you're notunderstanding.
I couldn't actually put in$100,000 right now.
I would drain the LP.
Now.
I'm not a meme coin guy orcrypto expert.
What's that argument?
What's that point he's tryingto make?
Either Chance or Jordan.
What's he saying there?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
So the liquidity, I think, is at like $42,000.
So there's actually like$42,000 liquidity in there.
So if you put in 100,000, whathe would do is basically lock up
the coin.
So if anybody were to put over$41,000, the coin would get
stalled out.
It would lock up, the wholeamount of the coin would be held
and then nobody could reallybuy in to see a growth.

(49:21):
So that is a risk of the coin.
So what you want is as manydifferent holders of the wallet
as the coin goes up.
You want many different holdersin at like a hundred bucks, 200
bucks, 300 bucks, and that'swhat builds the liquidity.
I could be wrong, but, jordan,you can jump in and say that.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
No, and I think that's his.
I think that's kind of thepoint that he's getting at is
like there's, there's ways inwhich, even with you guys having
the best of intentions, thiscan go horribly wrong.
I think that's kind of hispoint.
So again, I've seen thediscussion of the risk of you
could lose your money, and a lotof that discussion seems to be

(50:02):
oriented around hey listen,we're holding for the long term,
we're not going to do this,we're not going to rug.
But again, that only coverspart of the risk because there's
still, you know, even if youguys don't do anything, don't
don't sell anything, there canstill be a rug.
You know that happens.
And so, again, that's that'skind of where you know what Ryan
is pointing out and I think itkind of what?

(50:23):
Again, I just, yeah, my questionis do even the people who are I
just want people to understandand have eyes open going into
this thing?
That's part of it, the otherside of things, I mean I'll just
reference a couple of the otherthings that were mentioned in
some of the social media posts.
So one of the things that itwas anyone who is not a fan of

(50:45):
60 to 89 coin, which woulddefinitely include me.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I couldn't tell Anyone who is not a fan of 60 to
89 coin, which I, which woulddefinitely include me.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
They are called, yeah , they are called.
Well, I just met from you guyswould think of me this way.
They're called haters.
Okay, now again, obviously meme.
You know it's meme, shorthandhaters.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
I could definitely tell you're Presbyterian bro.
You're very uptight.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
So, my point is there is, is there, is there a reason
?
Like aren't there good reasonsto hate things?
And the answer is, well, yeah,we're told we're called to hate
what's evil, like there arethings that we're ought to hate.
So the fact that, like, do youchalk up I know you don't,
because you already you'vealready said it as much on this
like you don't think thatanybody who's pushing back and

(51:29):
resisting that your project isthe greatest thing since sliced
bread?
You're not just equatinganybody who says that as if
they're just haters, right?

Speaker 1 (51:36):
I mean, I don't run that account.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Sure, sure, no, but I just mean the project, like the
16.
You wouldn't say that anybodywho is pushing back on it is a
hater.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Do you spend any time on like Gen Z social?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
media.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
So I mean, you're seeing a meme coin, do what a
meme coin does.
And so like if that's yourargument, it's silly because
it's a meme coin and there'sreally no argument there.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Sure, Okay, good, because it's a meme coin and
there's really no argument there.
Sure, Okay, good.
I mean, again, there's peoplewho don't don't know these
things.
Um, again, I think the otherthing that I would want to
acknowledge okay, I would beremiss without mentioning uh is
what the Proverbs say about thedesire to gain wealth quickly,
right, so there's Proverbs 13,11 wealth, wealth gained hastily
will dwindle, but whoevergathers little by little will
increase it.

(52:20):
Now, again, to your credit, youjust said hey, we don't want to
build this project super quickly, we don't want people just to
dump in $100,000.
We want to build small so thatwe avoid some of the potential
for rugging.
So, hey, good on you there,that's great.
But again, I think that there'sagain I would, I would forgive
somebody who, based on some ofthese posts where, you know,

(52:42):
talking about hey, we're quickly, we're already at 300,000.
We're already at a 500,000market cap, we're already, you
know, whatever, we're almost,we're halfway to a million, Like
there seems to be a lot ofemphasis being put on getting to
some arbitrary point in thefuture where this coin is worth
something in order to be able topull money out of it, and so,

(53:03):
again, it's conflictingmessaging, I think, to say hey,
we don't want this thing to bebuilt quickly and yet be
emphasizing even if this isn'tyou, so this isn't aimed at you,
but whoever is in charge of the1689 account for that to be a
predominant part of themessaging is emphasizing how
quickly and how big that theproject is growing.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Really quick.
Can I just jump in on thatproverb too, because I get man
after five years of doing apodcast.
My audience is probably tiredof me hearing me rag on people
who use proverbs as likepromises.
They are warnings, right, andthat proverb in particular is
making the capitalistic freemarket association that money is
your time, is your labor and ifit's off balance, if you don't

(53:48):
understand what your time isworth and what your money is
worth, well, then you'llprobably spend it unwisely.
It's more of a warning againsthow you use and steward your
money.
If you gain something quickly,then money is cheap.
Your time is cheap.
Time is actually valuable.
It's the most limited resourcewe have, right?
So it's like this weird thingtoo, where, pete, you know, I
grew up where it was like youcannot borrow money, the

(54:09):
borrower is slave to the lender,and it's like, well, no,
probably just giving you awarning.
It doesn't say do not gainmoney quickly, do not go out and
borrow money.
No, it says just be warned.
If you have responsibilities,if you borrow money, just be
warned.
You will view money and yourlabor differently If it's out of
balance on how much time ittook to acquire that money.
Right, we always take care ofthe bike.

(54:30):
That was that we boughtourselves than the one we got
for Christmas.
That's the principle.
The proverb is is trying to saythere I would, I would argue in
chances defense a little bit, alittle bit that I don't think
I've seen, that I haven't seen.
Hey, we're going to try to getrich quick.
But I understand where you'recoming from as well too.
And let me tell you the funnything is, is I remember talking

(54:52):
to you, jordan, five years?

Speaker 3 (54:53):
ago, People said the same thing about Bitcoin and
everything you're saying rightnow.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
We were talking about Bitcoin, christians were like
oh, and I'm not comparingBitcoin to the meme coin.
About bitcoin, christians werelike, oh, and I'm not comparing
bitcoin to the mean coin.
Two different things.
Blockchain right, there's afinite amount.
I get all that.
I'm just saying, uh, it's alittle ironic.
Five years later now I'm goingoh, this is hilarious, because I
was on the bitcoin train earlyon.
I go yeah, let's do it.
Let's, let's be able to getmissionaries out of their
country with a, with a, with a,with a code in their pocket and

(55:19):
have liquidity in their pocketso they can come to America or
whatever the case may be.
I remember that example you weregiven.
That's why I brought that up.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Yeah, you know, I just thought, here's what I
would say.
Yeah, that that totally makessense.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
You can do that with a Rolex too, oh okay, you can do
that with a Rolex as well.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Let's go back to the barter system.
Is what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (55:35):
boys.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
So what I would say?
Yes.
And so again, the point you'regetting at is that misuse does
not negate proper use, right?
So again, the fact thathumanity was corrupted isn't an
isn't an indictment of God,right?
Like the fact that people canbe a good, that something that's
good can be corrupted, likethat doesn't, that doesn't put
any.
We don't lay any blame at thefeet of God for the fact that
people got, people fell into sin, like right, we have
culpability, um, again, at thesame time.

(56:01):
So again, maybe I'll just use adifferent one.
So, first Timothy, six, nine,right, uh for.
But those who desire to be richfall into temptation, into a
snare, into many senseless andharmful desires that plunge
people into ruin and destruction.
And so, again, even if you'regoing like, even if you're going

(56:25):
in with with eyes wide open Imean just the question that the
thing that I would want peopleto question because I've had to
question my own heart multipletimes, being in this industry
and all this kind of stuff is,again, there's nothing, there's
no problem with having resources, okay, the only person who
Jesus tells that he needs tosell everything is the guy who
thought he had already kept theentire law.
And so Jesus does it in orderto help him see that he does.
He hasn't actually kept theentire law, but this, if you're
desiring to be rich, okay, likethat desire.

(56:46):
I would just be wanting toquestion, like, just be willing
to question, where is thatdesire coming from?
And again, I'm not above havingto question that.
I'm not saying this is a uniqueproblem to 1689 coin or the
people who are involved in it,but again, within the broader
altcoin, meme coin world, thedesire to get rich quickly is
the predominant desire, thepredominant motivating factor

(57:09):
for people who are getting intoit, because if it wasn't their
desire, there's a whole bunch ofother ways.
There's no need to put it on ablockchain.
You can do all kinds ofinteresting community building
and all kinds of other thingsyou could do.
Gift cards that are providingthe same.
We're going to give a discountif you pay in 1689 gift cards.
All of these things provide thesame utility that is being

(57:30):
described, without needing toput all of your capital at risk
in the way that is the case,again, not because Chase is a
bad person, but because anyrandom awful person can hop in
there and suck out all theliquidity.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
He's doing it, Greg.
What's that?
He's doing?
What you did the first podcastwe were on.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
He's doing what?

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Call me Chase.
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry, Chase.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
I'm so sorry, dude.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I called Chance Chase for a whole podcast.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Oh gosh In my defense .

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I had a 20 milligram dort in my mouth that he gave me
a prototype, so it's flyingpretty high.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Yeah, I mean that's the other thing is, again, like
I met Chance to not Chase Idon't know who Chase is.
I met Chance a few years ago atone of the, I think, fight
Laugh Feast conferences andagain Chance has a body armor
company.
He's got some of these othercompanies and again, we need
Christians building goodcompanies and so I think that's
incredibly valuable and I aminterested in potentially

(58:28):
purchasing one of his body armorat some point.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
And so again, part of this you have to do it with
1689 coin though.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I wasn't going to wear this tonight, but I was
just too hot.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
So I think that's another part of me.
Again, this is I'm not coming atthis as some giant hater who
just wants chase to chance to bemiserable and his businesses to
all fail, like, because thereality is, if this thing falls
apart and gets rugged, it'snecessarily going to impact like
chances, reputation and so likethat.
That's part of this.
And so, again, with all ofthese things almost all of these

(58:59):
things rug and so that's and Idon't I've not been presented
with a case for this not rugging, for the end game of this to
not be a rug at some point,because if it succeeds and it
goes to a 10 million market capnow there's a bigger target on
its back, there's more peoplelooking at it as an easy way to
make money, and if it doesn't,then the liquidity is locked up

(59:20):
there and it's not able to getout.
So, again, that's where this iscoming from.
I think that, yeah, I justthink there's especially I mean,
there's just so many things todo as Christians and I think
there's just so many more thingsthat would be that could be
done and to be a worthier andless risky and, you know, better
use of time, attention andresources.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
But Okay, chance, do you want to respond to that, or
do you want me to give finalwords here, since we're about up
on an hour?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Well, I mean, as always, don't buy 1689 coin.
That's how I'll end.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Wait we ended in agreement.
It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah.
So yeah, Jordan, did you haveanything you wanted to say?
It sounded like you were kindof summing up your thoughts
there a minute ago, but as weget out of here, I'll give you a
couple minutes, I mean again inthe interest of practicing what
I preach and not shilling myown stuff again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
If this is a topic that's interesting to you, okay,
there is a book that I wouldrecommend Gary North's Honest
Money.
He would be positivelymortified to hear a Bitcoin
advocate, uh, in a recommendingone of his books, so maybe
that's all the more reason torecommend it.
Uh, somebody asked me weactually sent him a review copy
of thank God for Bitcoin.
When we wrote it and asked himif you would write a, write a

(01:00:34):
forward to it, he said I wouldnever.
You people are scammers.
And then, when he went to bewith the lord about a year ago,
somebody asked you know peopleof uh in in hindsight, when I've
mentioned his role in thewriting of the of our book,
they've asked was was gary northa bitcoin advocate?
And I looked at them with a wrysmile and said he is now right
so I would, I would recommendI'd recommend that book.

(01:00:55):
If you are a, if you're achristian leadership, I would
recommend, uh, basically, thegrown-up version of that book,
which is called the Ethics ofMoney Production, by an Austrian
economist named Jorg GuidoHolzman, which kind of gets at
this bigger question of you knowwhat are the ethics of creating
money?
Obviously, we know that what wedo with money in terms of if we
you know, purchase, you know,if we, whatever we do, if we

(01:01:17):
were to knowingly steal fromsomebody or to you know, use
money to purchase a prostituteor something like this, we know
that there's moral implicationsof that.
What is far less discussed andfar less understood is the fact
that the creation of moneyitself has ethical principles
that govern it and scripturalprinciples that govern it, and
so that book really in largepart flushes out those ideas.

(01:01:38):
So we're just highly encouraged, in the interest of the body of
Christ being as equipped aspossible and seeing the world in
the way that God does, I wouldjust highly recommend either of
those two books.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
And Chance.
What do you got for us as wesign off?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
I think Josiah Stowe from Dominion Wealth Strategies
needs to be on one of these inthe next, whenever you want to
have us back on to be a part ofthe financial advisor, to go
against the Bitcoin a little bitwith stocks and future
investments and things of thatnature.
So I would say that, but thenalso, I mean, at the end of the
day, we're building a project.

(01:02:12):
This is what we're doing.
There's always a risk there.
I mean, there's a riskassociated with the tens of
thousands of cigars I have inthe amateurs behind me and so
there's always risk and with myoptimistic view of the you know
the coming of christ, I thinkdigital currency, cryptocurrency
, is the future.
Um, I don't think it's bitcoin.

(01:02:32):
Um, I think the there's goingto be a coin that comes out
that's going to be better thanbitcoin.
I think bitcoin has kind ofshowed us the error of of what
can happen.
I do think there is just asmuch risk of when the 21 million
coins are mined, the 92% of thepeople who own Bitcoin rug
everybody.
So I do see the same kind ofpotential volatility, but to be

(01:02:54):
lost in a lot more.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
And obviously you can respond to that, jordan, but
yeah, I feel like it would behelpful to that.
So again, this figure has beenrepeated numerous times oh, that
2% of the wallets own 90 some.
What that is is there'sexchanges, there's exchanges
that have a lot of Bitcoinwithin them, so on chain, they
look like it's just two wallets,when in reality that's not the

(01:03:16):
case.
And so, again, the other pointis that, even with that Bitcoin,
it was not created for everyoneto be able just to give away
the control of the keys of theirBitcoin.
And so, again, all of thepeople who are in the industry
that we as well like, ourconstant refrain to people is
get your coins underneath yourcontrol as soon as you're able

(01:03:39):
to do so, because then you'refixing the incentive structure
and you're removing the abilityto be rugged.
So, again, this is not-.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
That's the same response you could say with 1689
coin, correct?

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
I mean, but again, so then we introduced.
So, even if you said yes, okay,so you can pull them off,
you're still on whatever walletyou're on.
Again, do you have private keysto 1689 coin?

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
What do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Do you have, do you have private keys to 1689 coin?
What do you mean?
Do you have?
You actually have like privatekeys?
Can you withdraw to a privatewallet that's not on Moonshot or
whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Yeah, yeah, so most of our guys use Phantom or Cake
or Metamask, so yeah, I mean so-.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Again in that case.
So then that wouldn't be thedifferentiator.
The differentiator would be,again, you still have.
So, again, there's multiplelayers of this.
You still have one person whocontrols the entire supply.
Like, chance, if you wanted to,you could double the supply.
You know, if, for some reason,let's say, here's, here's what
could happen.
Let's say you had, um, the wolfof the wolf, of what is it?
What's the wolf of all street?

(01:04:36):
What's his name?
Like, he's like a big cryptotrader.
Basically, if one of thesecrypto traders, if chance,
somehow entered into anagreement, sure, well, yeah,
that's, he's like a big cryptotrader, basically.
If one of these crypto traders,if Chance, somehow entered into
an agreement, sure, well, yeah,he's an example.
But, like, if you had some ofthese big, like, what would you
do?
Here's a question what wouldyou do, chance, if one of these
other big, humongous, likewhale-sized crypto traders
wanted to buy, wanted to buy aninterest in 1689 coin, wanted to

(01:05:00):
just an interest in in 1689coin?
Wanted to just basically say,hey, we'll partner with you,
we'll help you pump this to themoon.
Like you know, you just havegot done laying out the fact you
don't want to grow this likethat.
But, like you know, if somebodycame to you I mean you you
would have.
My point is even if youwouldn't, even if people think
you wouldn't do that, you stillwould have the ability to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I mean so that I have the ability to go, you know,
sleep with a prostitute, but itdoesn't mean I'm going to do it.
I mean so.
To have hypothetical argumentsis not to prove a point, it's
just hypothetical arguments.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Again, this is differentiating, though with
Bitcoin is my point where Idon't have to trust anybody with
my currency, with my money,with whatever I can withdraw it
and have it to the place whereeven the supply itself, even if
not the exact ones that I own,you know, chance like you could
still double, triple the supplyof the units, and that's not
possible with Bitcoin.
So that those, you know those,those differences matter a lot.

(01:05:52):
Uh, because the in theincentive structures matter a
lot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not disagreeing, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Yeah, and I don't think we were.
I don't think this uh livestream is going to be.
You know, uh 1689 coin is thesame as bitcoin.
Right, we know they're twototally different things good, I
think we nailed down on somereally good points too, of just
saying, well, there's, there'srisk involved.
Um, the general and I would inin uh chance.
You can agree or disagree withthis, but I would say in my uh,

(01:06:19):
in my, the majority, the vastmajority of these meme coins are
pump and dumps are get richquick.
So I understand that Now youmay be the lone fish with a few
fish behind you going up againstthat stream, but Jordan's point
well, taken as well too, likeChristian beware, like this
sector is rife of thieves andcheaters and scoundrels.

(01:06:40):
Right, and I understand whatyou're saying to a chance is
like well, you know, let's getin there and change it and
redeem it for the glory of Godas well, cause that's the
project I'm.
I'm working on my.
My personal thoughts aren't tooimportant, but I also go.
I would love to see whether itbe Bitcoin or 1689 or XPR or or
some.
Uh, and both your faces justwent weird when I said XPR, I

(01:07:03):
don't know my brother's- high onXPR.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
I would rather 1689 coins succeed than XRP, but sure
.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I'm just saying I would love to see Christians
have a majority stake in sometype of financial institution
for once.
I mean, we gave it to thepagans 150 years ago, never
looked back and just said, yeah,loan us money and make all the
decisions and have all thecontrol.
I'm not saying 1689 coin isgoing to do that, but I'm saying
I understand where chance iscoming from on that and wanting

(01:07:34):
to do that as well too.
And I understand, jordan, Iunderstand your point too.
Going, yeah, a lot of risk.
Well, yeah, my point would justbe.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
if that's the goal, right.
If that's the goal, I mean thething that today we already have
nation states trying to buy.
We already have some of thelargest companies on earth
buying is Bitcoin, and so, ifthat's the goal, if the goal is
basically to get again tosustainably with, even though
there is no such thing asrisk-free, we should not even

(01:08:02):
want that.
God created a world where wehave to trust him.
We have to.
I mean, at any time, I'mtrusting that my house isn't
going to fall on my head, likeall of these things.
We're not trying to avoid riskbut, again, calculated risk.
This is what stewardship is.
It's calculated risk, and so Ijust think, if that's the goal

(01:08:22):
goal and we're trying to, we'retrying to remove the downfalls
and the shortcomings of the fiatsystem okay, which is dependent
on trust, which is dependent onall these things then the only
thing that actually does that inmeaningful ways is Bitcoin.
Again, it's not going to makeyou.
It's in the short term.
It's not necessarily going tomake you rich quickly.
There are people who get in forthat reason and I can give you
a whole list of them who havegotten absolutely rugged, and so

(01:08:43):
I have a buddy who took out aloan to buy Bitcoin.
He's not a believer.
He took out a loan to buyBitcoin at 69, 67 K and had to
pay that loan all the way downto $17,000.
So if that, if your motivationto do any of these things is to
get rich quickly, you're doingit wrong.
Your goal should just be in thepoint of money is not to be able

(01:09:04):
to, it's not to get you rich,it's to preserve the value of
work that you've done.
That is why and to basicallyserve your neighbor by having
something a third thing that canbe traded in between in
exchange for the needs that twopeople have.
And so this is why money iscreated.
Bitcoin does this well.
Bitcoin is still immature.
I think this is also a reallyimportant point.

(01:09:25):
The framework that people useto think about Bitcoin matters.
Bitcoin is 16 years old.
It just got its driver'slicense.
It still is very volatilerelative to other things, but
again, that's how we're watchingin real time.
A free market money happen, noone makes people use Bitcoin.
This is all a free market thingthat's happening.

(01:09:48):
No one has been forced to buyBitcoin.
It's all been voluntary, and so, again, volatility is the price
of freedom.
That's just how the real worldworks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
All right fellows.
Well, thank you both forspending time with us uh, on the
live stream.
Appreciate both of you guys.
Thanks, greg, thanks chance.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yep, thanks brother.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Cool guys.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Devin walking
podcast.
This one was a live stream, asalways.
You can find out more about usat dmwpodcastcom.
Go support the show.
Um, you know you can get one ofthese wine.
Um d Support the show.
You know you can get one ofthese Wine Em Dine Em Romans,
nine Em mugs at the merch store.
We've got some snarky shirts onthere.
Of course, we have the new Job13.5.
How about you shut up and letthat be your wisdom?

(01:10:28):
Sometimes you just got to quotescriptures to the pagans, even
if they don't like it.
But, guys, we appreciate yoursupport.
We appreciate you watching.
Thanks for commenting, remember.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Christian Ethics in the Wild West of Cryptocurrency

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Christian Ethics in the Wild West of Cryptocurrency

Stuff You Should Know