July 19, 2023 • 53 mins
On this enlightening episode of "Deadly Departed," join our host, Jock Brocas, as he delves into the captivating work and research of renowned psychologist, Dr. Lisa Miller. A pioneer in the field of spiritual psychology, Dr. Miller offers groundbreaking insights into the profound connection between our brains and spiritual experiences.
From her extensive research, Dr. Miller reveals that our minds are not solely instruments of logic and physical processing, but are also intrinsically set for spiritual transcendence. Her revolutionary findings invite listeners to contemplate the idea of an "Awakened Brain" - one that seamlessly integrates rational thinking and spiritual awareness.
In a riveting conversation that merges the scientific with the spiritual, Jock Brocas and Dr. Miller embark on a journey that challenges conventional wisdom and unfolds the complex tapestry of the human psyche. Unearth the transformative potential of spirituality and neuroscience intertwined, and discover a fresh, new perspective on the innate spiritual capacity of our minds.
Don't miss this thought-provoking exploration into the realm of the 'Awakened Brain.' It's an enlightening episode that promises to stimulate your intellect and awaken your spirit.
Connect with Dr Miller - https://www.lisamillerphd.com/
. The dialogue presented in this episode traverses profound themes pertaining to the intersection of spirituality and scientific inquiry, as articulated by Professor Lisa Miller, the esteemed author of 'The Awakened Brain.' Our discourse elucidates the intricacies of her personal journey through the realms of grief, spiritual awakening, and the empirical methodologies that underpin her research. Professor Miller elucidates that her narrative is not merely academic; it is a tapestry woven from the threads of her lived experiences, illuminating how trauma can serve as a conduit for spiritual enlightenment. This episode endeavors to unpack the notion that our consciousness is not only a product of biological processes but is also imbued with a divine essence that beckons us toward a higher state of awareness. I delve into the poignant moments of Lisa's life that catalyzed her awakening, including her struggles with fertility and the eventual realization that parenthood could manifest not through conventional means but rather through adoption. The dialogue encourages listeners to reflect on their own paths and the potential for spiritual growth that arises from embracing adversity. Through this exploration, we advocate for a reconciliatory approach between science and spirituality, positing that both are essential in understanding the human experience.
Takeaways:
- In this episode of Deadly Departed, we explore the intersection of spirituality and science, particularly through the insights from Lisa Miller's book, The Awakened Brain.
- Lisa Miller discusses her transformative journey that combines her scientific background with her deep spiritual experiences and awakenings.
- The narrative emphasizes that profound personal trauma can serve as a catalyst for spiritual awakening and deeper understanding of oneself.
- Miller articulates the concept that our brains are inherently wired for spiritual awareness, suggesting a biological basis for our spiritual experiences.
- The episode highlights the importance of recognizing synchronicities in life as guidance from the universe, fostering a deeper connection to our spiritual paths.
- Listeners are encouraged to view their moments of despair as invitations to explore their spirituality and embrace a path of awakening.
Companies mentioned in this...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock here, and this isDeadly Departed, the guest who's
coming on this is Lisa Miller,who is the author of the Awakened
Brain.
You know, in Deadly Departed,we have many different parapsychologists.
We touch on the paranormal, wetouch on parapsychology, we touch
on psi.
And oftentimes there areexperiences that we don't understand,
(00:25):
and science doesn'tnecessarily understand these experiences
either.
So it's brilliant when youcome across some research and some
work that actually spans agreat deal of consciousness, the
paranormal, spirituality,spiritual awakening, and precognition.
And all of this is experiencedin Lisa's work.
(00:46):
In fact, actually experiencedin Lisa's life.
And she's a professor at theUniversity of Columbia.
I hope I got that right.
And the work that she's donehas been revolutionary.
I believe in bringingspirituality and spiritual awakening
to science and to themainstream as well.
So I can't wait, guys, for youto meet Lisa and to dive into her
(01:08):
work and to dive into what itmeant for her and her experiences
over the years.
And in fact, she's actuallynow running a spiritual psychology
program in an Ivy League school.
So let's dive in, let's getright to it, and meet Lisa.
God bless.
Welcome to Deadly Departed.
The do's, don'ts and dangersof afterlife communication.
(01:29):
This show discusses allaspects of afterlife communication,
grief and grieving, theparanormal, and of course, parapsychology.
There's real stories,scientific discussion, and most of
all, real learning fromparanormal experts and researchers.
Here's your host, author ofDeadly Departed, renowned evidential
(01:52):
medium and spiritinterventionist, Jock Brocas.
Okay, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock from Deadly Departed.
And as you've probably seenfrom my introduction, I am rather
excited to speak to LisaMiller, who is my guest today, who's
Professor Lisa Miller, theauthor of the Awakened Brain.
(02:14):
And as you'll know, this isone of my most favorite books at
the moment.
And we're going to talk aboutLisa's work, the Science of Spirituality,
and her story of awakening andLisa, welcome to Deadly Departed.
It's great to see you.
I'm so grateful to be withyou, Jock.
And I'm honored to share inthis community of very attuned, open
(02:34):
people.
So this is really a particular joy.
Thank you.
I'm delighted.
As you know, I was excited toget you, and it took us a long time
to do this, and then yesterdaywe actually started doing it and
had technical difficulties.
So hopefully today we'll haveno problem.
But as you know, time is anactive variable.
This may be the right time.
(02:55):
That's it.
It's divine timing.
Divine timing.
So tell us a little bit about,obviously about your.
About your history.
Let's go in a little bit aboutyour history until you got to the
point of writing the book,because that's very important to
lay the foundation of your work.
Thank you, Jacques.
And you know, as a scientist,when I wrote the Awakened Brain,
(03:17):
it was important to me thatthe Awakened Brain be about a personal
journey, about the deep, harddata of our lived inner experience,
every bit as much as theoutward science.
And so the Awakened Brain isreally about my journey on a spiritual
path, as we all have aspiritual path, and how some of the
(03:37):
most painful times in ourlives are the traumas, the pains
that are excruciating at timesin the heart are actually the gateway.
To a spiritual awakening, youknow, in your life.
Obviously, with yourscientific background, it's probably
really difficult for others toreally appreciate how you brought
(04:02):
together your science and your spirit.
Because in your, you know, asI, you know, recognize from your
book, you have grief, youhave, you know, spiritual awakening,
you've attended shamanicpractices, and yet you're steeped
in this materialistic science.
(04:23):
And we'll go into that alittle bit later, but you're kind
of steeped in this world of science.
And I love how you open up atthe very beginning of the book with
the idea or proven essentiallythat our brain is actually built
up for spiritual advancementand spiritual awareness.
But, I mean, in your book,you've had precognition, you've had
(04:45):
intuition, you've had psychic ability.
How can you actually bring allthat together in your experience
to come out, if you, like,come out of the scientific closet?
And all of those forms ofknowing, as I share in the Awakened
Brain are hardwired, validforms of knowing.
(05:08):
And I know that through myspiritual path.
I know that through theoutward lens of science, and both
are woven together in theAwakened Brain.
But because you so graciouslyinvited me, Jacques, to share the
story, I'm grateful to sharethis story with your community, like
many people in my 30s, wantedto start a family.
(05:31):
And my husband and I, at thatpoint had done everything by the
book that we had wanted to setup our lives in a sort of outward
way.
So he was working as a lawyerin New York.
We had an apartment and we hadfriends, and I had made my way through
a PhD program and was now aclinical psychologist.
(05:51):
And everything was all set up,and it was time for us to start a
family.
Listen now implicitly from theillusion of control that humans hit
the button when out.
Right.
Cloak is ticking.
Yes.
Right.
And then I sort of pull the cord.
And now, now is time.
We will start our family as ifhumans made life.
(06:12):
Right?
So there we were and westarted to so called try as we understood
it at that time.
We did it in the way manycouples do.
We said, we will take avacation to the Caribbean.
We went off to St. Martin, andit was beautiful and the sun was
bright.
And in a little cottage we socalled tried.
And a few weeks later, no baby.
(06:33):
And we thought, well, who getsone for one?
So we went off to Sedona.
Nice, bright spiritual place.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Still no baby.
And after this went on forabout six, eight, ten months, I started
to get this haunting feelinglike, wait a minute, what if we can't
conceive?
You know?
And it was so horrifying to methat I pushed it out of my mind.
(06:55):
I couldn't even bear, what ifwe can't conceive?
So I went further down thispath and further down this path,
and we started to feel quite.
Not just disappointed, butafter a while, a longing depression,
even really a despairing hit in.
Wow, you really hit rock bottom.
Hit rock bottom.
And we had.
(07:15):
Okay, let's get help.
So we went to an excellentfertility doctor on the Upper west
side where we were living.
No baby.
We thought, well, we don'tneed to limit it to our neighborhood
just because it's an easy walk.
Let's search the Northeast.
I'm a clinical scientist.
Let's find the highest ratesof conception.
We went to that office.
(07:37):
No baby.
And as we went further downthis path, iui, ivf, second ivf,
I. I started to get thishaunting feeling that, you know,
the message from doctors was,you're healthy, you're healthy, we
can get you pregnant again.
The human control implicit inall this.
Yes.
(07:57):
But I started to wonder in myheart if we were in the wrong place.
It just didn't feel that inour path, this is where we were being
called.
But this hunger to have achild was so great that I kept going
and I said, let's go to thepeople and who invented ivf.
Surely they can get us pregnant.
(08:19):
And sure, this team had comeup with it a couple decades ago.
And there we were, prettydespairing, pretty depleted, but
hopeful because here's thebest team in the whole country.
My heart still knew it was inauthentic.
Our path was inauthentic for us.
(08:40):
So sitting there posting ivf,you know, they put the fertilized
eggs back in.
Yeah, right.
My husband, being very sweet,he sat beside me in solidarity on
bed rest.
So there we were, side by sideon bed rest.
And in this, you know, wewanted to be nice to ourselves.
It was just one night.
We splurged for a very nicehotel in Rittenhouse Square.
(09:02):
We click the remote, myhusband, and on the tv, there's only
one channel.
And we think, well, wait aminute, you know, at these prices.
So we're clicking, clicking.
One channel, like taps bangs,goes to the tv.
One channel.
What are we watching?
Really, the only choice thatwe might watch was a excruciating
(09:24):
four hour jock.
This was a documentary on an orphan.
I remember that.
I remember that in the book.
It's quite a poignant moment, actually.
Very much so.
We're on our seventh in vitrothird team trying to get pregnant.
Human control.
Pull out the stops.
And what comes back to us fromthe universe is the voice of a little
(09:47):
orphan through a translatorstanding in a garbage dump.
And he says, I don't care thatI live in the trash.
He's literally living in trash.
I don't care that I can't goto school.
But it hurts so much to not beloved that I sniff glue.
(10:08):
That actually brought a bit oftear in my eye when I read that.
I sniffed glue to make thepain go away of not being loved.
The orphan said, all I want is love.
So here we are on this reallykind of, you know, solipsistic.
Let's get that baby that has,you know, your looks and your humor
and, you know, and, you know,my resilience.
(10:29):
And let's get that baby that'sus in a very material sense, in a
very human control sense, likeair traffic control.
Let's control the variables.
And the universe says, all heneeded, this boy could have been
your child.
All he needed was love, andall you needed was a child.
He could have not been livingin a garbage dump in pain, and you
(10:52):
could have not been on thisnow three and a half, four year journey.
So the message was pretty clear.
And my husband, who is reallythe sort of gracious civilian in
this journey, looks over at meand says, you know, there's a child
out there for us.
Wow.
And then we knew.
And once we got that picture,we started to see more and more helpers
(11:17):
and healers showing up on ourroad of life.
More and more, yoursynchronicity started coming in tenfold
from the other side.
Absolutely.
The most glorious, of course,is my truly, my mother is she may
not even know it.
A plain clothes shaman, youknow, and she's the first to call
(11:38):
and she said, you know, I justwanted to let you know she knew nothing
about this powerfulsynchronicity we just shared on bedrest.
I just wanted you to know ourneighbor, and I'll call her.
Greta Jones has just adoptedthe most beautiful little boy.
His name is Robert Paul andhe's so wonderful and he's from Russia.
And just so you know, here'sthe information.
(12:00):
Love you.
Bye.
You know, it's crazy becausethat in itself is a spiritual intervention.
Yes.
And I think that's amazing.
You know, reading that in thebook as well, I was like, you know
what?
They're meant to have it, butit's not meant to be in the material
world.
It's got to be surrendered tothe divine.
(12:21):
This gracious loving guidance,this sacred divine hold.
Guided, loved, held, guided,loved at all times.
And what were we doing?
We were fighting the river.
We were swimming upstream.
No, no more.
One more in vitro, One more invitro human control.
Put the pieces together mechanistically.
(12:43):
And who I call God, you couldcall divine spirit or the sacred
force of life was reallyushering us down the road.
We were at a fork in the roadand I quiver to think if I hadn't
listened.
Right.
Although we know if we don't,we do get another chance.
(13:04):
The volume's turned up.
It's such a loving guiding universe.
We do get multiple chances.
But that was a major fork inthe road.
And we started listening morecarefully and paying more deep observance
to the synchronicities thatreally assure us along our path.
So this continues and right aswe kind of get the picture, one night,
(13:25):
Jacques, I'm in bed sleepingnext to my husband and I feel a presence
coming.
I can feel the presence comingcloser and closer.
And I sit up, sit up.
And time and space open up.
This is about three, ofcourse, 3:00am and time and space
(13:49):
open up and it's numinous.
And there's an opening in timeand space and a very sacred presence
comes.
And the message is, if you arepregnant, will you adopt?
That's the message.
Do you know what?
I'm getting goosebumps withthis again.
And this is exactly whathappened when my wife and I were
driving and listening to audible.
(14:10):
Both of us got goosebumps withit because you know what's coming.
You can feel the presence coming.
Very sacred.
Very sacred.
Very regal is not quite the word.
It's beyond that.
It's an ultimate Presence.
There's a profound presence.
It is a ultimate sacred presence.
(14:32):
And the message was clear andthe voice was deep and resonant.
Deep and resonant like an om.
It was a deep and resonant voice.
And I.
In the presence of some.
The ultimate sacred presence.
Of course, we're very honest.
And I said, honestly, no, no,if we got pregnant at one of these
(14:54):
IVFs, I'd go with that baby.
And so we continue furtherdown the path and I can't get my
sticky fingers off it, youknow, the baby with my schnoz and
my husband's humor.
Let's get that baby, thelittle us, you know, and further
down the path.
And I have more in vitros.
More in vitros.
And can you imagine what thisdoes to the body?
You know, I know you mentionedthat you were.
(15:16):
You were suffering physicallyfrom all of the injections and the
holes in your system.
They'd take out maybe 20 eggsat a time.
I seem to respond quiteprolifically to this medication.
I thought, well, for me andour path, this didn't seem fluid.
This didn't seem aligned and syntonic.
So I can't resist, though.
(15:36):
It's sort of the knowing ofthe heart versus the sticky fingers
of the striving mind.
And I gotta have so more in vitros.
And I come back the house.
This is after about our ninthin vitro.
And I just have this sinkingfeeling in my heart that we're still
in the wrong place and thatwe've sort of strayed now we're not
sticking to our path.
(15:58):
And as I step up to our frontdoor of our home in the country,
peaceful, quiet place, used tobe a fishing cabin, tiny little lovely
place.
On the front door is a.
There's something moist andwet and I can't tell what it is.
I haven't seen this before.
And I lean forward and it's adead embryo.
I'm walking back from an invitro and there's a dead embryo on
(16:21):
my doorstep.
I mean, it's irrefutable whatthis means, right?
You know what it means.
Yeah.
Clearly it's far toounprobabilistic to have happened
by chance in the years beforeand in the 20 years since, there's
never been a dead embryo on myfront step.
That's a sign.
That's a sign and a half.
And it's of guidance.
Right?
And as excruciating as it is,I mean, completely depressing.
(16:44):
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
I understand that.
I look closely and it's a deadduck, a beautiful dead duck.
Embryo.
And I just, you know, it's too depressing.
In the middle of the day, I go in.
I lie down on the couch in mystudy, and I go to sleep.
And then I hear.
I'm woken by this tapping onmy door, my sliding glass door looking
(17:08):
out to the river.
And I get up and I'm like, whocould that.
And it's a mama duck.
Yeah.
And she's brought me somethingof great comfort, of great value
to her.
She's brought me a plump,juicy worm.
And she's at.
Never has a duck before, neverhas a duck since.
Come right out of the river,up the stairs to the porch, to my
(17:30):
study to bring me a plump,juicy worm.
She lost her baby.
Yeah.
And she was comforting me for losing.
Mine and your needs.
Yeah.
So we are loved and held andguided by spirit, who I call God,
the great force of life.
And we show up for oneanother, whether it is my mother,
(17:53):
the shaman, right.
Or fellow living being, MotherDuck, we show up for one another.
We are all like emanationsraised from the sun of divine orchestration.
And as painful as that was, Ifelt such love.
And I felt that we are being.
This is a buoyant path.
We are not alone here.
(18:15):
We are never alone.
Was that moment in time, Lisa,your catalyst to your spiritual awakening?
Because I know that you had aspiritual outlook before, but this
seemed to be the moment, Jacques.
In my path, it's almost likethere's rounds, like an upward helix,
you know, more and more, ever closer.
And so the presence came back.
(18:38):
Wow.
The presence came back.
And again in the night, I sat up.
It was about 3am Sat up, justwoke up suddenly.
And the sacred opening of timeand space.
And it's numinous.
It's numinous, right?
And the presence.
I could feel the presence coming.
There's almost a rhythm as thepresence comes and asks, if you were
(18:59):
pregnant, would you adopt?
And I said, I am.
So much closer.
Like I'm getting it.
Right.
But truthfully, if thisinstant I got pregnant, no.
But I could feel I wasapproaching someone ready to inherit
parenthood, which isunconditional love and acceptance.
And I was getting whatparenthood was.
It's like not my schnoz and myhusband's sense of humor.
(19:21):
It is the deep connection.
True, unconditional.
So this goes further, right?
And I get a call from anothertrail angel, as I call them.
Those who help as we meetsynchronicities guide us down our
emanations of spirit.
And this is my older cousin.
My name is Lisa.
Jane.
(19:41):
My big cousin is Jane, firstname Jane.
I'm Little Jane.
She's Big Jane.
It's always been that way.
And she's sort of a guidewho's extremely frank with me, you
know, told me unwanted thingsI didn't even want to know about
my family, you know, veryfrank with me.
And she calls and she says,you know, hey, little cuz, I know
you're having a struggle.
(20:02):
I know you're having a hardtime, and I'm wondering if you might
come out here to a healingceremony of the Lakota.
And I said, well, I'd love tocome, but I, you know, I have this
appointment in Pittsburgh.
She's like, well, the healingceremony is in three days.
And it worked out, joc, that Iwent first to our appointment in
Pittsburgh, which was, to me,I remember this.
(20:25):
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
And then.
And then to Big Jane.
So the appointment inPittsburgh, in this.
Guided path, weren't you inthe wrong place?
You were at the wrong place atone point, weren't you?
You had to actually redirect.
Oh.
Oh, you're good.
Yes, yes.
Okay.
So we're in Pittsburgh, andwe're with a clergyman's daughter.
(20:46):
And there we are, Philip andI, sitting at her table.
It is the clergyman's daughterwho was recommended by my mother.
You know, I have the information.
Goodbye.
And this beautiful woman hashelped bring together probably six,
probably now 800 families.
Wow.
And her walls are lined withphotos of beautiful, radiant families,
(21:06):
you know, a little baby andparents or children who are adopted
at 4 or 8 and their families.
And, you know, they're onbikes or they're camping or it's
the holidays.
And, you know, and I'm like,yes, yes.
I was feeling like I wasstarting to be in the right place.
There was so muchunconditional love.
I was feeling like this is.
(21:27):
This feels right.
So she leans forward and shesays, you've got to be very honest
with me.
So I've made hundreds offamilies, brought them together.
You've got to be honest.
What do you want in a child?
Okay.
And the nuance of what do you want?
Can play either way.
You know, it can sound alittle bit like trying to get pregnant.
Like, you know, pick andchoose and control.
(21:49):
And I said, you know, I don'tcare if this child is a boy or a
girl.
I don't care what race thischild is, but please, a child who
can love.
And my husband leans forwardand kind of puts his shoulder in
my space and says, yes, allthat, but kind of a Girl.
And then I reciprocated, sortof do put my shoulder in his face.
(22:13):
And I say, but foremost, achild who can love.
And with that, I went fromthere to South Dakota to the call,
answer the call of Big Jane.
And there I was with Big Jane.
And she said, I want you toknow that I've gotten permission
from the head of the Lakotacommunity here in South Dakota that
(22:34):
you might join us in a healing ceremony.
I've done a lot of work withthis tribe, and they have, as a favor
to me, have welcomed you.
And so I go to the healingceremony right from Pittsburgh, and
there I am.
It was the most extraordinaryexperience I'd had.
Each person in the Lakotacommunity stood up in front of the
entire community and spoke ofwhy he or she had come.
(22:59):
And after each person toldtheir story, and no one's looking
at the clock, it could be twominutes, it could be 20 minutes,
it could be an hour.
Everyone's listening.
When the person is donespeaking of their pain, the whole
community stands up, the drumsstart and lines up as each person,
as God spirit Wanonici movestheir heart, speaks into that to
(23:24):
be that person, to be healedtheir ear.
And after this process, themen go one way, the women go the
other, and we're all going to separate.
In Nepeus sweat lodge.
Sitting in the sweat lodge,all women, led by the woman who called
herself the medicine man's wife.
She welcomed us and she said,tell us why you've come.
(23:46):
To each woman.
As the sweat lodge starts, the nep.
The first woman says, I'vecome because my son is 40 and he's
no longer coming home.
And I'm worried for those kids.
And everyone really listens.
I mean, like, the level ofconsciousness, it has registered.
And then the next woman speaks.
My son is 14, and he'sstarting to use drugs and alcohol,
(24:09):
and I'm worried he'll be addicted.
And everyone again listens andsays, uh huh.
Taken in.
We go around the circle, andit comes to Big Jane and Big Jane.
You know, I'm a professor.
I speak for a living.
It felt so good to have BigJane speak for me in this moment.
Yeah, this is my cousin little Jane.
(24:35):
And Jock, to this day, she'scome looking for her child.
Wow.
And they all look and they getit and they go, huh?
And Big Jane says, I wonder ifwe can help her find her child.
Sitting here in the sweatlodge, the round sweat lodge.
And again, listen.
Aha.
And we go around, complete thecircle, and we start the prayers
(24:59):
and we pray, and at the end,the fire is put out, and we send
up the prayers through the topof the inipi.
And in my mind's eye, I couldsee the same numinousness.
That's amazing.
So that night, that verynight, a call came into my machine
(25:20):
in New York.
I picked it up early the next morning.
To this day, I feel sograteful to God, so grateful for
the loving, infinite guidanceof God.
The call comes in from Russia.
We have found the Miller's child.
We have wonderful girls.
Mr. Miller had asked for agirl, and we can give you a girl.
(25:42):
But this is the Miller'schild, and this is a son.
Wow.
We had been praying for sons,and my son now, of course, is called
Isaiah.
For one world.
Lakota.
Lakota.
For the people who helped usfind our child.
(26:03):
It was an extraordinary blessing.
So I go home.
I can't wait to see this videoof my son, my spiritual son.
And soon the video comes, andhere's this radiant.
It's an angel come to earth.
You know, he's up there in anorphanage in northern Russia.
Da, da, da.
So full of life, his armaround the nerve.
He glows.
(26:23):
He literally glows.
And that night, after I'veseen Isaiah, I've seen our boy, I
feel the presence coming thethird time.
And I know now, of course, andit's coming closer, and the sacred
rhythm of approach and thenuminous opening in the night.
(26:45):
And the President says, and I know.
I feel I may know what they'regoing to ask.
If you were pregnant now,would you adopt?
Absolutely.
This is my spiritual son.
I gave him goosebumps again.
And that night we conceived naturally.
(27:06):
His sister, kind of a girl.
His spiritual twin.
That night, after five yearsof all the best infertility doctors,
this was not a mechanisticcontrol problem.
This did not live in theprovince of human control.
This was about a sacred path.
This was a divine intervention.
(27:28):
Yes.
And it exemplifies not ourhuman condition or spiritual condition.
It exemplifies who we are asspirits having a human experience
and not the other way around.
And how we can move in theworld at a foundationally, primary,
foremost spiritual level.
(27:50):
That it's through the gift andblessings of what I, who I call trail
angels.
Sent by spirit, sent by God.
Emanations like rays from the sun.
Trail angels and synchronicities.
Sacred guidance.
We are loved and held.
We are guided, and we arenever alone, whether it's Big Jane
or Mama Duck.
(28:10):
I mean, all of the hopers andhealers along the Way.
So a spiritual path is afoundationally spiritual way of being
and seeing and perceiving,knowing of the heart, knowing of
our deep inner spiritual awareness.
And it seemed to me thatdepression was a call into an awakening.
(28:31):
That was my journey.
That the utter bottom of thebarrel despair we felt.
I mean, my husband was lyingon the ground with.
Our lives are hollow andmeaningless without children.
That bottom of pain was theinvitation to pay attention to the
(28:51):
loving, guiding universe.
That was the invitation tolook and hear.
And once we opened up to theorphan in the garbage dump as showing
us, as being brought to us byGod, by spirit, we lived in a dialogue
from then forward.
A dialogue.
(29:12):
What do you show me now,higher power?
What do you ask of me, God?
What is a deeper unconditionallove that would honor us, to elevate
us to parenthood?
Not that the kid comes home,but that we are prepared to have
unconditional love.
Then we're parents.
Yeah.
Now, how was Steve?
(29:33):
Was Philip.
Sorry, Was he pretty spiritual beforehand?
Or did this also have adramatic impact on his awakening
to a certain level?
Jacques, that is such amagnificent question.
No one's ever asked me that before.
Philip's mother is a veryspiritual woman and a spiritually
(29:54):
oriented psychologist as well.
Oh, wow.
And she practices as such.
And his whole childhood wasfull of stories of a foundationally
spiritual reality.
So he honors his mother and hehonors me in being voices of spiritual
awareness.
He doesn't always see ithimself, or he claims perhaps not
(30:17):
to always see it himself.
And yet on the big ones, hesure gets it and speaks up.
So, for instance, the orphanin the garbage dump, it was Philip
who said, there's a child outthere for us.
I noticed that.
I was going to say thatbecause it seemed that there was
a synchronistic event thatmade him awaken to that point.
(30:39):
He awoken.
He did awaken to that point.
And he, I think, is completelyopen to synchronicity and does see
it, but counts on sort of hismother, his wife, as sort of the
voice in the family on a daily basis.
But it's a beautiful question,Joc, because he is open.
(31:00):
Bottom line, that that isultimate truth.
That is the hard data.
That is the bedrock on whichwe make a choice.
I think there's a contrast tohim because you say he's a lawyer.
And I've dealt with.
I actually own helplawyer.com,so I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of lawyers in my time.
And what I find is that they're.
(31:22):
They Try to grasp to aspiritual concept, but they can't
because they don't understandthe difference between divine law
and man's law.
They can't equate divine lawto man's law.
And so they're caught up inman's law because that's what they
know.
And yet there's this pull.
There's this pull to try andget them in there, and it causes
conflict.
So I would say that Philipindeed does perceive the difference
(31:46):
between the axioms of oursacred universe and the rules made
by man.
I think he does see the difference.
But I think the point you'reraising about our society is extremely
important that I'll start at home.
The pain I felt for five yearssearching for my child was because
(32:11):
I was looking among the thingsmade by humans.
In vitro fertilizations,higher rates of conception.
And it was only when I fully.
It's not just surrendered,leaned forward, trusted, and walked
the path of divine guidance.
That's when it came full circle.
(32:34):
Well, first of all that thefamily came.
But this is not only a storyof the family arriving, It's a story
of a spiritual path.
I think perhaps there for allof us through which we awaken, where
we move from the things thatwe count on made by humans that don't
show up.
And certainly in Covid thatwas clear our institutions, you know,
oh, the hospital's full up.
(32:55):
Your employer closed, youknow, the things by humans to opening
to the deep, buoyant guidancethat we are loved and held, guided
and never alone of God,spirit, the universe.
That hundred percent.
I don't mean half and half orninety percent.
Hundred percent.
Full trust that I'm going tohave my front heel strike on the
(33:19):
divine path.
That's a choice.
And it came to me very, veryclear that that is the only path
that we are designed to walk,the spiritual path.
You know, it's almost manyyears ago when I sat in circle, obviously
someone deadly departed.
So I can talk about this thing.
And I do deep trance work.
(33:42):
And I remember one of thestatements that I've lived by ever
since that came through whenwe were in circle was from my own
spirit team, my own guide, whosaid, the truth is the truth no matter
what.
It is merely the perception oftruth that is manipulated by man.
But divine truth will never change.
It is constant.
(34:05):
Well, I think we're built.
Having walked that path andmade a choice at the fork in the
road, the rest of my life, Iwill do everything I can to walk
the sacred path, the spiritual path.
I could at times getdistracted or make mistakes.
But my mission is to walk thespiritual path.
(34:27):
I then set, as a scientist towork to help through the lens of
science, bear witness to this.
This awesome truth that I knewthrough my deep intuitive knowing,
through my mysticalperception, through what we now know
as our birthright forspiritual awareness.
I set to show that to themedical community, the mental health
(34:50):
community, because thelanguage at the moment of the mental
health community was one ofclinical science.
And if we could show thecentrality and transformative power
of spiritual awareness, what Icall awakened awareness, if we could
reveal the awakened brain,then perhaps mental health could
(35:12):
embrace this deep foundationaltruth of who we are as humans.
Lisa, what gave you the ideato look at?
Because I love the aspect thatyou dive into the neuroscience science
as well.
And I'm forever arguing withscientists on the brain and the mind.
So what gave you this inkling that.
(35:32):
Wait a minute.
There's got to be a concept inour biological makeup, in the brain
that is set for spiritualawakening, spiritual realization.
And as you suggest, it's avery beautiful point, and it's a
subtle point, Chuck, that I'mnot saying the brain makes spirituality.
Right.
I'm saying that the brain isperhaps a docking station or an antenna
(35:56):
or an expression of space.
That's what I say.
Yeah.
The brain is an expression ofdivine mind, or mind, as the mind
being the psychologicalbuilding blocks of our reality.
Beautiful.
And that is, for neuroscience,hopefully, where we are in our growth.
That in the 20th century, themetaphor of the brain was like a
(36:18):
factory making packages ofsomething, that the brain packages
up thoughts.
But increasingly, in the 21stcentury, we're starting to understand
consciousness.
And here we're talking aboutsacred consciousness.
Not just information, butlove, guidance and intention.
Sacred.
And from coming from source,the sacred, who I call God.
(36:40):
So here we are starting tounderstand consciousness as existing
independent of matter, whichmeans that the brain can be a reification,
coming into form and antennaof sacred consciousness.
And what we have in our MRImachines is the capacity to show
(37:00):
which part of the brains gohand in hand with receiving consciousness.
Right.
Which parts of the brain areengaged during moments of deep spiritual
awareness?
And to a mental health field,that's very powerful evidence that
we are built for spiritual awareness.
And we take that and we say,listen, every human being on earth
(37:23):
is built as an innatelyspiritual being, an innately spiritual
being.
I think it's amazing.
I think that's amazing becauseit also brings to the forefront of
our minds or the forefront ofreality, that with that being the
truth, or with that beingreality, that we have the power to
(37:48):
be able to reverse what it has.
What maybe has came inunbalanced, you know where.
And maybe that's somewherewhere we need to go even deeper,
especially in mental health,because I see it as an imbalance,
as something that we need tobring into balance.
And so we have that powerwithin us.
(38:09):
And.
But most people don't realize that.
And it's all of ours, as you say.
It's all of ours.
Right.
So it's.
Well, I'll share with you afew points of science that I think
really have helped changemental health.
The first is that science hasa tool.
Science has always had aperfectly good lens for looking at
(38:32):
innate spirituality, but wedidn't use it.
We didn't use it.
And that was not a limitationof our lens.
We can point our lens at abroad host of questions, whether
it's an MRI study or anepidemiological study or a telescope.
We can point it anywhere.
But the limitation in the 20thcentury was in us, the scientists.
We, the scientists, now thatwe have started asking questions
(38:56):
about spirituality and thehuman journey and the road of life.
I.
The findings I take to be aform of sacred witness.
It is jaw dropping, Jock.
It is.
I mean, it is.
It's like when we split theatom and infinite energy came out.
A sacred moment like that.
(39:18):
So what do we know?
Okay, well, for when we usethe twin study method, twins raised
together, twins raised apart.
Factor out genes, environment,we can know, you know, anything about
the extent to which a humancapacity is inborn or environmentally
shaped.
So temperament.
If we're outgoing,introverted, high strung, laid back,
(39:39):
that's half inborn, halfenvironmentally formed.
So if a baby wakes up in thenight and is anxious, we can soothe
the baby.
If we find ourselves a littleuncomfortable in social situations,
we can change our innerenvironment through meditation or
other ways of using our inner life.
Well, the capacity throughwhich we perceive into the spiritual
(40:00):
reality, our awakened brain isone third innate.
It is a human inborn capacity.
But it is two thirdsenvironmentally formed, which means
our opportunity to engage, topractice, to learn.
I liken it in some respects tomusical ability.
There's.
We all can feel the deep rhythm.
(40:22):
We all have an innate musical ability.
We can all enjoy maybe movinga little to a song and dance.
We all are innately rhythmic,if you will.
And then there's natural humanvariability and honoring your audience
here.
There's probably a greatnumber of people who are exquisitely
attuned, who are the maestrosand the composers and the.
(40:45):
The professional musicians, ifyou will.
And those folks arerepresentative of human variability.
We have one spiritual brainall around the world.
But there's naturalvariability, some as there's with
music or math or anything else.
And of course, two thirdsenvironmentally formed means that
our use of this gift of ourawakened brain to practice, whether
(41:08):
it's through prayer andmeditation, whether it's through
service, and service in a waythat's guided by spirit, the more
we use our awakened brain, thestronger it becomes.
And that includes sacred work.
So I honor every human beingas a spiritual being.
And to the extent that wechoose to engage the spiritual path,
(41:31):
we strengthen evermore this birthright.
Do you think one of the.
One of the things that I wantto jump on.
You've mentioned choice anumber of times, which is probably
one of the greatest divinegifts that we've ever been given.
Beautiful.
Oh, Chuck, what a way to thinkof it.
Yes, absolutely.
The power of choice that weare given by the divine is up to
(41:52):
us.
And I have this concept whereI say we have restricted free will
because we don't have totalfree will.
Because if we had total freewill, then destiny wouldn't play
a part in it and we wouldn'thave spiritual growth.
We wouldn't learn anything.
But I feel that the power ofchoice that we have probably it's
a dialogue, and it probablybecomes stronger with struggle and
(42:17):
trauma, which leads us tobecoming more aware of the power
of choice that we have to takea spiritual path where we may then
fall away from a religious,dogmatic belief system and then start
to investigate, wait a minute.
We are greater than the sumtotal of anything that we are.
(42:39):
And we are greater than theperceptions and the expectations
of religion.
Where is the seed of awarenessin us?
Has taken us to a new levelwhere we're maybe jumping between
knowledge and wisdom.
Wisdom being the hidden bridgeand knowledge being the intellectual.
So I so agree with you thatchoice is a sacred gift.
(43:00):
And I sometimes think ofchoice in these moments where we
know it is a profound momentof choice.
I mean, sometimes it can beclear and outward, but sometimes
it's something more nuancedthat we know through our knowing
heart, our intuition, ourmystical awareness.
I think of those moments ofchoice as something of a wormhole
(43:21):
between universes, thateverything unfolds differently from
that point.
That's not to say we can't be redeemed.
We can.
We can always be redeemed and forgiven.
Have another wormhole,perhaps, if it's given.
But choice is a sacred Moment.
And I think of it indeed as adialogue with the sacred universe.
What are you showing me now?
What do you ask of me now?
(43:42):
I've worked for four years.
Interestingly, Jock, thePentagon and I have worked together
for three, three and a half,close to four years.
And the chief of chaplains inthe Pentagon, two star General Chaplain
Tom Soldier speaks of divine appointment.
He talks about moments wherethere's two helicopters taking off
(44:03):
and there's just been combatand where does he go?
And he feels in his spiritualheart go left.
Even though, you know, theplan was to go right.
And the plan until that momenthad been to board the helicopter
on the right.
The heart says go left.
So he goes left and he gets onthe helicopter and it takes off and
there's three wounded soldiers.
And chaplain Soldier tells thestory of being able to pray and be
(44:26):
in deep spiritual communitywith these three soldiers, deep spiritual
bond.
And Jock, all three of them survived.
Wow, that's powerful intuitionright there.
And I love his term divine appointment.
That when we listen to thepull of God, of spirit saying go
left this time, that's adivine appointment.
(44:48):
And sure enough, who shouldcome around the corner but.
And there's an opportunity forhelping, for healing, for being a
trail angel.
You know, it's amazing.
When I wrote my first book,when I wrote powers of the sixth
sense, I wrote it after 9, 11to show.
It's called how to remain safein a Hostile World.
And that's exactly what I talkabout about these, the divine nuances,
(45:11):
how to discern the differencebetween the ego mind and to discern
the intuit of the divine mind,to be able to.
And I interviewed a lot ofsoldiers as well.
Being a soldier myself, I kindof, I understood it how we can utilize
that power, that sacred powerthat we have within us to remain
(45:32):
safe in a potentially hostile situation.
And it is a deeper form of knowing.
Yeah.
And you know, it'sinteresting, I love how you say knowing
because that's something Iespouse all the time.
I've been on many radio showsand they've said, you know, do you
believe in the afterlife?
And I say, no, I actuallydon't believe in anything because
if I believe in something,that means I'm open, I have room
(45:55):
for interpretation.
And I don't want to believe inanybody's perceptions or expectations.
I want to come to knowing.
Because no one is divine, noone means there is no interpretation.
It comes from a divine sourceand it's connected, interconnected
to me.
So I, I love the fact that youtalk about knowing.
Wonderful.
(46:16):
I think you're raising a pointas well, that oftentimes spirituality
is spoken of as a belief.
Yeah.
Through the lens of clinicalscience, spirituality is an innate
seat.
It is a neuro seat of perception.
Yeah.
So we are built to quitespecifically be able to perceive
the transcendent, the loving,guiding transcendent, and perceive
(46:42):
that presence, that sacredpresence in our love for one another
as fellow human beings.
Transcendence and immanence.
We are built with a neurodocking station to perceive transcendence
and immanence, who we reallyare to each other.
And fellow living beings likeMother Duck, of course.
So we are all in this sacred dialogue.
(47:04):
And the more that we not justpay attention, but contribute.
Thank you, Mother Duck.
And help her someday.
The more that we're part of.
That's prayer in action.
In my point of view.
Then we are participating inthis divine orchestra.
Yeah.
I always teach students that.
(47:24):
The same.
And we spoke about this yesterday.
And I think it exemplifies beautifully.
What you're saying is that thesame animating force that animates
the duck animates us.
It means that, you know, LisaMiller was the duck and the Duck
was Lisa Miller.
There was no separation.
There was more connection thanthere was disconnection.
And I think when humanitycomes to understand that, maybe we
(47:46):
can transcend this idea ofhumanity and start to realize that
we are actually interconnectedmore than we even imagine.
And that every thought andevery action and every prayer has
its own internal power to beable to transform and change.
And just as who I call God,Spirit, source, universal force for
(48:08):
us is loving, holding andguiding and never leaves us alone,
we, through this greatpresence, can show up for one another
to be loving, holding andguiding so that no one is ever left
alone.
We can be instruments ofdivine expression.
You know, you've had amazing experience.
(48:30):
There's a lot of people outthere, Lisa, that don't have.
That have probably missed the experiences.
It may even be right in frontof their face, but they miss it.
As a scientist, you haveexperienced the lows and the highs
and the spiritual awakening.
What would you say to peopleout there that are struggling now
(48:53):
with maybe where they are inthe world or the fact that they don't
feel held in love?
What could you awaken in them?
That feeling of emptiness anddoubt and total alienation.
That darkness is actually the start.
It's the ignition of thespiritual path.
(49:15):
It is the pounding at the doorof an opening to awakening.
And gently, very gently, Iinvite you to watch who comes and
how they come.
Whether it's dusting off arusty prayer or meditating or talking
to fellow living beings innature, rejoining the kingdom.
(49:40):
I don't think that Eden issomeplace in the past.
I think Eden is when we joinin the symphony of all life.
Oh, that's brilliant.
That is brilliant.
I love that.
That's actually probably goingto be one of the clips that we take
from here to promote the episode.
I think that's beautiful.
And how you say that rightthere, inviting you in.
(50:03):
Yeah.
And, you know, people miss itbecause I tend to think people don't
look with their spiritual eyes.
They're too busy looking.
I have a saying.
They say, don't look with theeyes of the merchant, look with the
eyes of the spirit.
Beautiful.
Because that's the way we think.
Lisa, we're coming.
It's up to nearly an hour.
I've loved having you.
I really, really enjoyedhaving you on here, and I want you
(50:25):
to come back on because Ithink there's a lot more that we
can unpack.
I hope you will, Chuck.
You're wonderful.
It's a joy to share the path.
I love it.
I think there's a lot thatpeople can learn from this.
And for you guys that are outthere that are also on a grief path,
you'll catch myself and Lisagoing into another, deeper subject
(50:45):
on Pillars of Grief, which ismy other podcast.
But remember, from what youlisten in here, there's a great deal
of hidden lessons in this.
The paranormal is actually sonormal because we're all connected
and we all only exist becausethe divine spirit runs through us.
And when we recognize that,then, you know, the expression of
(51:11):
the brain being the expressionin the mind, understand that you
have the power to transformyour depression.
You have the power totransform your sadness.
You have the power totransform every aspect of your life.
And if one thing you can learn.
I just want to bring up thebook again.
Guys, you gotta buy this book.
I told you.
I bought it on audible,Kindle, and in hardback.
(51:34):
There's a lot of lessons in this.
I've read many, many books inmy life, and there's very few that
I really, really love.
And this is one that I reallylove because it exemplifies not only
science, but it exemplifieswhat we are trying to do and what
we've been trying to do for somany years to bring spirit and science
together and show that thereis actually a relationship, just
(51:55):
as there is in divine law, andthat none of them are different.
We're actually so much morethe same.
Josh, thank you for sharing inthe awakened brain.
It is a joy to share this withyou and your community.
Oh, I love it and I can't waitto have you back on.
And do you want to just sayfinal thoughts to people out there?
Tell us what you're planningnext or what you've got on the cards?
(52:16):
I wish you so much joy and discovery.
The spiritual path can hurt attimes, but it's always an invitation
to a deeper understanding ofhow very much we are loved and held
and that you are never, ever,ever alone.
And so I'd say thank you forthis gift of being with you and may
God bless.
You loved it.
(52:37):
Thank you.
Loved it.
And just remember guys, thatyour trauma is the gateway to your
awakening.
God bless.
Thank you for joining us onDeadly Departed.
Hi there ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you very much.
If you have purchased DeadlyDeparted, it means a lot to me.
Thank you from the bottom ofmy heart for supporting my work.
(52:57):
And if you haven't boughtDeadly Departed yet, then consider
buying Deadly Departed.
You can get it on Amazon oryou can get it in any bookstore and
you can show proof of purchaseand join my closed group.
You can also reach out to meon Instagram at any time, Spiritual
Medium, if you have a questionand I will answer it.
Have a wonderful day, ladiesand gentlemen, and thank you once
(53:18):
again.
God Bless.
You've been listening toDeadly Departed with renowned evidential
medium and author Jock Brocas.
If you like what you've heard,make sure to pick up a copy of the
Deadly Departed book.
Don't forget to share theepisodes and send in your questions
to us about anythingparanormal and the afterlife.
(53:39):
Tune in next time to DeadlyDeparted, the do's, don'ts and dangers
of afterlife communication.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock here, and this isDeadly Departed, the guest who's
coming on this is Lisa Miller,who is the author of the Awakened
Brain.
You know, in Deadly Departed,we have many different parapsychologists.
We touch on the paranormal, wetouch on parapsychology, we touch
on psi.
And oftentimes there areexperiences that we don't understand,
(00:25):
and science doesn'tnecessarily understand these experiences
either.
So it's brilliant when youcome across some research and some
work that actually spans agreat deal of consciousness, the
paranormal, spirituality,spiritual awakening, and precognition.
And all of this is experiencedin Lisa's work.
(00:46):
In fact, actually experiencedin Lisa's life.
And she's a professor at theUniversity of Columbia.
I hope I got that right.
And the work that she's donehas been revolutionary.
I believe in bringingspirituality and spiritual awakening
to science and to themainstream as well.
So I can't wait, guys, for youto meet Lisa and to dive into her
(01:08):
work and to dive into what itmeant for her and her experiences
over the years.
And in fact, she's actuallynow running a spiritual psychology
program in an Ivy League school.
So let's dive in, let's getright to it, and meet Lisa.
God bless.
Welcome to Deadly Departed.
The do's, don'ts and dangersof afterlife communication.
(01:29):
This show discusses allaspects of afterlife communication,
grief and grieving, theparanormal, and of course, parapsychology.
There's real stories,scientific discussion, and most of
all, real learning fromparanormal experts and researchers.
Here's your host, author ofDeadly Departed, renowned evidential
(01:52):
medium and spiritinterventionist, Jock Brocas.
Okay, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock from Deadly Departed.
And as you've probably seenfrom my introduction, I am rather
excited to speak to LisaMiller, who is my guest today, who's
Professor Lisa Miller, theauthor of the Awakened Brain.
(02:14):
And as you'll know, this isone of my most favorite books at
the moment.
And we're going to talk aboutLisa's work, the Science of Spirituality,
and her story of awakening andLisa, welcome to Deadly Departed.
It's great to see you.
I'm so grateful to be withyou, Jock.
And I'm honored to share inthis community of very attuned, open
(02:34):
people.
So this is really a particular joy.
Thank you.
I'm delighted.
As you know, I was excited toget you, and it took us a long time
to do this, and then yesterdaywe actually started doing it and
had technical difficulties.
So hopefully today we'll haveno problem.
But as you know, time is anactive variable.
This may be the right time.
(02:55):
That's it.
It's divine timing.
Divine timing.
So tell us a little bit about,obviously about your.
About your history.
Let's go in a little bit aboutyour history until you got to the
point of writing the book,because that's very important to
lay the foundation of your work.
Thank you, Jacques.
And you know, as a scientist,when I wrote the Awakened Brain,
(03:17):
it was important to me thatthe Awakened Brain be about a personal
journey, about the deep, harddata of our lived inner experience,
every bit as much as theoutward science.
And so the Awakened Brain isreally about my journey on a spiritual
path, as we all have aspiritual path, and how some of the
(03:37):
most painful times in ourlives are the traumas, the pains
that are excruciating at timesin the heart are actually the gateway.
To a spiritual awakening, youknow, in your life.
Obviously, with yourscientific background, it's probably
really difficult for others toreally appreciate how you brought
(04:02):
together your science and your spirit.
Because in your, you know, asI, you know, recognize from your
book, you have grief, youhave, you know, spiritual awakening,
you've attended shamanicpractices, and yet you're steeped
in this materialistic science.
(04:23):
And we'll go into that alittle bit later, but you're kind
of steeped in this world of science.
And I love how you open up atthe very beginning of the book with
the idea or proven essentiallythat our brain is actually built
up for spiritual advancementand spiritual awareness.
But, I mean, in your book,you've had precognition, you've had
(04:45):
intuition, you've had psychic ability.
How can you actually bring allthat together in your experience
to come out, if you, like,come out of the scientific closet?
And all of those forms ofknowing, as I share in the Awakened
Brain are hardwired, validforms of knowing.
(05:08):
And I know that through myspiritual path.
I know that through theoutward lens of science, and both
are woven together in theAwakened Brain.
But because you so graciouslyinvited me, Jacques, to share the
story, I'm grateful to sharethis story with your community, like
many people in my 30s, wantedto start a family.
(05:31):
And my husband and I, at thatpoint had done everything by the
book that we had wanted to setup our lives in a sort of outward
way.
So he was working as a lawyerin New York.
We had an apartment and we hadfriends, and I had made my way through
a PhD program and was now aclinical psychologist.
(05:51):
And everything was all set up,and it was time for us to start a
family.
Listen now implicitly from theillusion of control that humans hit
the button when out.
Right.
Cloak is ticking.
Yes.
Right.
And then I sort of pull the cord.
And now, now is time.
We will start our family as ifhumans made life.
(06:12):
Right?
So there we were and westarted to so called try as we understood
it at that time.
We did it in the way manycouples do.
We said, we will take avacation to the Caribbean.
We went off to St. Martin, andit was beautiful and the sun was
bright.
And in a little cottage we socalled tried.
And a few weeks later, no baby.
(06:33):
And we thought, well, who getsone for one?
So we went off to Sedona.
Nice, bright spiritual place.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Still no baby.
And after this went on forabout six, eight, ten months, I started
to get this haunting feelinglike, wait a minute, what if we can't
conceive?
You know?
And it was so horrifying to methat I pushed it out of my mind.
(06:55):
I couldn't even bear, what ifwe can't conceive?
So I went further down thispath and further down this path,
and we started to feel quite.
Not just disappointed, butafter a while, a longing depression,
even really a despairing hit in.
Wow, you really hit rock bottom.
Hit rock bottom.
And we had.
(07:15):
Okay, let's get help.
So we went to an excellentfertility doctor on the Upper west
side where we were living.
No baby.
We thought, well, we don'tneed to limit it to our neighborhood
just because it's an easy walk.
Let's search the Northeast.
I'm a clinical scientist.
Let's find the highest ratesof conception.
We went to that office.
(07:37):
No baby.
And as we went further downthis path, iui, ivf, second ivf,
I. I started to get thishaunting feeling that, you know,
the message from doctors was,you're healthy, you're healthy, we
can get you pregnant again.
The human control implicit inall this.
Yes.
(07:57):
But I started to wonder in myheart if we were in the wrong place.
It just didn't feel that inour path, this is where we were being
called.
But this hunger to have achild was so great that I kept going
and I said, let's go to thepeople and who invented ivf.
Surely they can get us pregnant.
(08:19):
And sure, this team had comeup with it a couple decades ago.
And there we were, prettydespairing, pretty depleted, but
hopeful because here's thebest team in the whole country.
My heart still knew it was inauthentic.
Our path was inauthentic for us.
(08:40):
So sitting there posting ivf,you know, they put the fertilized
eggs back in.
Yeah, right.
My husband, being very sweet,he sat beside me in solidarity on
bed rest.
So there we were, side by sideon bed rest.
And in this, you know, wewanted to be nice to ourselves.
It was just one night.
We splurged for a very nicehotel in Rittenhouse Square.
(09:02):
We click the remote, myhusband, and on the tv, there's only
one channel.
And we think, well, wait aminute, you know, at these prices.
So we're clicking, clicking.
One channel, like taps bangs,goes to the tv.
One channel.
What are we watching?
Really, the only choice thatwe might watch was a excruciating
(09:24):
four hour jock.
This was a documentary on an orphan.
I remember that.
I remember that in the book.
It's quite a poignant moment, actually.
Very much so.
We're on our seventh in vitrothird team trying to get pregnant.
Human control.
Pull out the stops.
And what comes back to us fromthe universe is the voice of a little
(09:47):
orphan through a translatorstanding in a garbage dump.
And he says, I don't care thatI live in the trash.
He's literally living in trash.
I don't care that I can't goto school.
But it hurts so much to not beloved that I sniff glue.
(10:08):
That actually brought a bit oftear in my eye when I read that.
I sniffed glue to make thepain go away of not being loved.
The orphan said, all I want is love.
So here we are on this reallykind of, you know, solipsistic.
Let's get that baby that has,you know, your looks and your humor
and, you know, and, you know,my resilience.
(10:29):
And let's get that baby that'sus in a very material sense, in a
very human control sense, likeair traffic control.
Let's control the variables.
And the universe says, all heneeded, this boy could have been
your child.
All he needed was love, andall you needed was a child.
He could have not been livingin a garbage dump in pain, and you
(10:52):
could have not been on thisnow three and a half, four year journey.
So the message was pretty clear.
And my husband, who is reallythe sort of gracious civilian in
this journey, looks over at meand says, you know, there's a child
out there for us.
Wow.
And then we knew.
And once we got that picture,we started to see more and more helpers
(11:17):
and healers showing up on ourroad of life.
More and more, yoursynchronicity started coming in tenfold
from the other side.
Absolutely.
The most glorious, of course,is my truly, my mother is she may
not even know it.
A plain clothes shaman, youknow, and she's the first to call
(11:38):
and she said, you know, I justwanted to let you know she knew nothing
about this powerfulsynchronicity we just shared on bedrest.
I just wanted you to know ourneighbor, and I'll call her.
Greta Jones has just adoptedthe most beautiful little boy.
His name is Robert Paul andhe's so wonderful and he's from Russia.
And just so you know, here'sthe information.
(12:00):
Love you.
Bye.
You know, it's crazy becausethat in itself is a spiritual intervention.
Yes.
And I think that's amazing.
You know, reading that in thebook as well, I was like, you know
what?
They're meant to have it, butit's not meant to be in the material
world.
It's got to be surrendered tothe divine.
(12:21):
This gracious loving guidance,this sacred divine hold.
Guided, loved, held, guided,loved at all times.
And what were we doing?
We were fighting the river.
We were swimming upstream.
No, no more.
One more in vitro, One more invitro human control.
Put the pieces together mechanistically.
(12:43):
And who I call God, you couldcall divine spirit or the sacred
force of life was reallyushering us down the road.
We were at a fork in the roadand I quiver to think if I hadn't
listened.
Right.
Although we know if we don't,we do get another chance.
(13:04):
The volume's turned up.
It's such a loving guiding universe.
We do get multiple chances.
But that was a major fork inthe road.
And we started listening morecarefully and paying more deep observance
to the synchronicities thatreally assure us along our path.
So this continues and right aswe kind of get the picture, one night,
(13:25):
Jacques, I'm in bed sleepingnext to my husband and I feel a presence
coming.
I can feel the presence comingcloser and closer.
And I sit up, sit up.
And time and space open up.
This is about three, ofcourse, 3:00am and time and space
(13:49):
open up and it's numinous.
And there's an opening in timeand space and a very sacred presence
comes.
And the message is, if you arepregnant, will you adopt?
That's the message.
Do you know what?
I'm getting goosebumps withthis again.
And this is exactly whathappened when my wife and I were
driving and listening to audible.
(14:10):
Both of us got goosebumps withit because you know what's coming.
You can feel the presence coming.
Very sacred.
Very sacred.
Very regal is not quite the word.
It's beyond that.
It's an ultimate Presence.
There's a profound presence.
It is a ultimate sacred presence.
(14:32):
And the message was clear andthe voice was deep and resonant.
Deep and resonant like an om.
It was a deep and resonant voice.
And I.
In the presence of some.
The ultimate sacred presence.
Of course, we're very honest.
And I said, honestly, no, no,if we got pregnant at one of these
(14:54):
IVFs, I'd go with that baby.
And so we continue furtherdown the path and I can't get my
sticky fingers off it, youknow, the baby with my schnoz and
my husband's humor.
Let's get that baby, thelittle us, you know, and further
down the path.
And I have more in vitros.
More in vitros.
And can you imagine what thisdoes to the body?
You know, I know you mentionedthat you were.
(15:16):
You were suffering physicallyfrom all of the injections and the
holes in your system.
They'd take out maybe 20 eggsat a time.
I seem to respond quiteprolifically to this medication.
I thought, well, for me andour path, this didn't seem fluid.
This didn't seem aligned and syntonic.
So I can't resist, though.
(15:36):
It's sort of the knowing ofthe heart versus the sticky fingers
of the striving mind.
And I gotta have so more in vitros.
And I come back the house.
This is after about our ninthin vitro.
And I just have this sinkingfeeling in my heart that we're still
in the wrong place and thatwe've sort of strayed now we're not
sticking to our path.
(15:58):
And as I step up to our frontdoor of our home in the country,
peaceful, quiet place, used tobe a fishing cabin, tiny little lovely
place.
On the front door is a.
There's something moist andwet and I can't tell what it is.
I haven't seen this before.
And I lean forward and it's adead embryo.
I'm walking back from an invitro and there's a dead embryo on
(16:21):
my doorstep.
I mean, it's irrefutable whatthis means, right?
You know what it means.
Yeah.
Clearly it's far toounprobabilistic to have happened
by chance in the years beforeand in the 20 years since, there's
never been a dead embryo on myfront step.
That's a sign.
That's a sign and a half.
And it's of guidance.
Right?
And as excruciating as it is,I mean, completely depressing.
(16:44):
Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
I understand that.
I look closely and it's a deadduck, a beautiful dead duck.
Embryo.
And I just, you know, it's too depressing.
In the middle of the day, I go in.
I lie down on the couch in mystudy, and I go to sleep.
And then I hear.
I'm woken by this tapping onmy door, my sliding glass door looking
(17:08):
out to the river.
And I get up and I'm like, whocould that.
And it's a mama duck.
Yeah.
And she's brought me somethingof great comfort, of great value
to her.
She's brought me a plump,juicy worm.
And she's at.
Never has a duck before, neverhas a duck since.
Come right out of the river,up the stairs to the porch, to my
(17:30):
study to bring me a plump,juicy worm.
She lost her baby.
Yeah.
And she was comforting me for losing.
Mine and your needs.
Yeah.
So we are loved and held andguided by spirit, who I call God,
the great force of life.
And we show up for oneanother, whether it is my mother,
(17:53):
the shaman, right.
Or fellow living being, MotherDuck, we show up for one another.
We are all like emanationsraised from the sun of divine orchestration.
And as painful as that was, Ifelt such love.
And I felt that we are being.
This is a buoyant path.
We are not alone here.
(18:15):
We are never alone.
Was that moment in time, Lisa,your catalyst to your spiritual awakening?
Because I know that you had aspiritual outlook before, but this
seemed to be the moment, Jacques.
In my path, it's almost likethere's rounds, like an upward helix,
you know, more and more, ever closer.
And so the presence came back.
(18:38):
Wow.
The presence came back.
And again in the night, I sat up.
It was about 3am Sat up, justwoke up suddenly.
And the sacred opening of timeand space.
And it's numinous.
It's numinous, right?
And the presence.
I could feel the presence coming.
There's almost a rhythm as thepresence comes and asks, if you were
(18:59):
pregnant, would you adopt?
And I said, I am.
So much closer.
Like I'm getting it.
Right.
But truthfully, if thisinstant I got pregnant, no.
But I could feel I wasapproaching someone ready to inherit
parenthood, which isunconditional love and acceptance.
And I was getting whatparenthood was.
It's like not my schnoz and myhusband's sense of humor.
(19:21):
It is the deep connection.
True, unconditional.
So this goes further, right?
And I get a call from anothertrail angel, as I call them.
Those who help as we meetsynchronicities guide us down our
emanations of spirit.
And this is my older cousin.
My name is Lisa.
Jane.
(19:41):
My big cousin is Jane, firstname Jane.
I'm Little Jane.
She's Big Jane.
It's always been that way.
And she's sort of a guidewho's extremely frank with me, you
know, told me unwanted thingsI didn't even want to know about
my family, you know, veryfrank with me.
And she calls and she says,you know, hey, little cuz, I know
you're having a struggle.
(20:02):
I know you're having a hardtime, and I'm wondering if you might
come out here to a healingceremony of the Lakota.
And I said, well, I'd love tocome, but I, you know, I have this
appointment in Pittsburgh.
She's like, well, the healingceremony is in three days.
And it worked out, joc, that Iwent first to our appointment in
Pittsburgh, which was, to me,I remember this.
(20:25):
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
And then.
And then to Big Jane.
So the appointment inPittsburgh, in this.
Guided path, weren't you inthe wrong place?
You were at the wrong place atone point, weren't you?
You had to actually redirect.
Oh.
Oh, you're good.
Yes, yes.
Okay.
So we're in Pittsburgh, andwe're with a clergyman's daughter.
(20:46):
And there we are, Philip andI, sitting at her table.
It is the clergyman's daughterwho was recommended by my mother.
You know, I have the information.
Goodbye.
And this beautiful woman hashelped bring together probably six,
probably now 800 families.
Wow.
And her walls are lined withphotos of beautiful, radiant families,
(21:06):
you know, a little baby andparents or children who are adopted
at 4 or 8 and their families.
And, you know, they're onbikes or they're camping or it's
the holidays.
And, you know, and I'm like,yes, yes.
I was feeling like I wasstarting to be in the right place.
There was so muchunconditional love.
I was feeling like this is.
(21:27):
This feels right.
So she leans forward and shesays, you've got to be very honest
with me.
So I've made hundreds offamilies, brought them together.
You've got to be honest.
What do you want in a child?
Okay.
And the nuance of what do you want?
Can play either way.
You know, it can sound alittle bit like trying to get pregnant.
Like, you know, pick andchoose and control.
(21:49):
And I said, you know, I don'tcare if this child is a boy or a
girl.
I don't care what race thischild is, but please, a child who
can love.
And my husband leans forwardand kind of puts his shoulder in
my space and says, yes, allthat, but kind of a Girl.
And then I reciprocated, sortof do put my shoulder in his face.
(22:13):
And I say, but foremost, achild who can love.
And with that, I went fromthere to South Dakota to the call,
answer the call of Big Jane.
And there I was with Big Jane.
And she said, I want you toknow that I've gotten permission
from the head of the Lakotacommunity here in South Dakota that
(22:34):
you might join us in a healing ceremony.
I've done a lot of work withthis tribe, and they have, as a favor
to me, have welcomed you.
And so I go to the healingceremony right from Pittsburgh, and
there I am.
It was the most extraordinaryexperience I'd had.
Each person in the Lakotacommunity stood up in front of the
entire community and spoke ofwhy he or she had come.
(22:59):
And after each person toldtheir story, and no one's looking
at the clock, it could be twominutes, it could be 20 minutes,
it could be an hour.
Everyone's listening.
When the person is donespeaking of their pain, the whole
community stands up, the drumsstart and lines up as each person,
as God spirit Wanonici movestheir heart, speaks into that to
(23:24):
be that person, to be healedtheir ear.
And after this process, themen go one way, the women go the
other, and we're all going to separate.
In Nepeus sweat lodge.
Sitting in the sweat lodge,all women, led by the woman who called
herself the medicine man's wife.
She welcomed us and she said,tell us why you've come.
(23:46):
To each woman.
As the sweat lodge starts, the nep.
The first woman says, I'vecome because my son is 40 and he's
no longer coming home.
And I'm worried for those kids.
And everyone really listens.
I mean, like, the level ofconsciousness, it has registered.
And then the next woman speaks.
My son is 14, and he'sstarting to use drugs and alcohol,
(24:09):
and I'm worried he'll be addicted.
And everyone again listens andsays, uh huh.
Taken in.
We go around the circle, andit comes to Big Jane and Big Jane.
You know, I'm a professor.
I speak for a living.
It felt so good to have BigJane speak for me in this moment.
Yeah, this is my cousin little Jane.
(24:35):
And Jock, to this day, she'scome looking for her child.
Wow.
And they all look and they getit and they go, huh?
And Big Jane says, I wonder ifwe can help her find her child.
Sitting here in the sweatlodge, the round sweat lodge.
And again, listen.
Aha.
And we go around, complete thecircle, and we start the prayers
(24:59):
and we pray, and at the end,the fire is put out, and we send
up the prayers through the topof the inipi.
And in my mind's eye, I couldsee the same numinousness.
That's amazing.
So that night, that verynight, a call came into my machine
(25:20):
in New York.
I picked it up early the next morning.
To this day, I feel sograteful to God, so grateful for
the loving, infinite guidanceof God.
The call comes in from Russia.
We have found the Miller's child.
We have wonderful girls.
Mr. Miller had asked for agirl, and we can give you a girl.
(25:42):
But this is the Miller'schild, and this is a son.
Wow.
We had been praying for sons,and my son now, of course, is called
Isaiah.
For one world.
Lakota.
Lakota.
For the people who helped usfind our child.
(26:03):
It was an extraordinary blessing.
So I go home.
I can't wait to see this videoof my son, my spiritual son.
And soon the video comes, andhere's this radiant.
It's an angel come to earth.
You know, he's up there in anorphanage in northern Russia.
Da, da, da.
So full of life, his armaround the nerve.
He glows.
(26:23):
He literally glows.
And that night, after I'veseen Isaiah, I've seen our boy, I
feel the presence coming thethird time.
And I know now, of course, andit's coming closer, and the sacred
rhythm of approach and thenuminous opening in the night.
(26:45):
And the President says, and I know.
I feel I may know what they'regoing to ask.
If you were pregnant now,would you adopt?
Absolutely.
This is my spiritual son.
I gave him goosebumps again.
And that night we conceived naturally.
(27:06):
His sister, kind of a girl.
His spiritual twin.
That night, after five yearsof all the best infertility doctors,
this was not a mechanisticcontrol problem.
This did not live in theprovince of human control.
This was about a sacred path.
This was a divine intervention.
(27:28):
Yes.
And it exemplifies not ourhuman condition or spiritual condition.
It exemplifies who we are asspirits having a human experience
and not the other way around.
And how we can move in theworld at a foundationally, primary,
foremost spiritual level.
(27:50):
That it's through the gift andblessings of what I, who I call trail
angels.
Sent by spirit, sent by God.
Emanations like rays from the sun.
Trail angels and synchronicities.
Sacred guidance.
We are loved and held.
We are guided, and we arenever alone, whether it's Big Jane
or Mama Duck.
(28:10):
I mean, all of the hopers andhealers along the Way.
So a spiritual path is afoundationally spiritual way of being
and seeing and perceiving,knowing of the heart, knowing of
our deep inner spiritual awareness.
And it seemed to me thatdepression was a call into an awakening.
(28:31):
That was my journey.
That the utter bottom of thebarrel despair we felt.
I mean, my husband was lyingon the ground with.
Our lives are hollow andmeaningless without children.
That bottom of pain was theinvitation to pay attention to the
(28:51):
loving, guiding universe.
That was the invitation tolook and hear.
And once we opened up to theorphan in the garbage dump as showing
us, as being brought to us byGod, by spirit, we lived in a dialogue
from then forward.
A dialogue.
(29:12):
What do you show me now,higher power?
What do you ask of me, God?
What is a deeper unconditionallove that would honor us, to elevate
us to parenthood?
Not that the kid comes home,but that we are prepared to have
unconditional love.
Then we're parents.
Yeah.
Now, how was Steve?
(29:33):
Was Philip.
Sorry, Was he pretty spiritual beforehand?
Or did this also have adramatic impact on his awakening
to a certain level?
Jacques, that is such amagnificent question.
No one's ever asked me that before.
Philip's mother is a veryspiritual woman and a spiritually
(29:54):
oriented psychologist as well.
Oh, wow.
And she practices as such.
And his whole childhood wasfull of stories of a foundationally
spiritual reality.
So he honors his mother and hehonors me in being voices of spiritual
awareness.
He doesn't always see ithimself, or he claims perhaps not
(30:17):
to always see it himself.
And yet on the big ones, hesure gets it and speaks up.
So, for instance, the orphanin the garbage dump, it was Philip
who said, there's a child outthere for us.
I noticed that.
I was going to say thatbecause it seemed that there was
a synchronistic event thatmade him awaken to that point.
(30:39):
He awoken.
He did awaken to that point.
And he, I think, is completelyopen to synchronicity and does see
it, but counts on sort of hismother, his wife, as sort of the
voice in the family on a daily basis.
But it's a beautiful question,Joc, because he is open.
(31:00):
Bottom line, that that isultimate truth.
That is the hard data.
That is the bedrock on whichwe make a choice.
I think there's a contrast tohim because you say he's a lawyer.
And I've dealt with.
I actually own helplawyer.com,so I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of lawyers in my time.
And what I find is that they're.
(31:22):
They Try to grasp to aspiritual concept, but they can't
because they don't understandthe difference between divine law
and man's law.
They can't equate divine lawto man's law.
And so they're caught up inman's law because that's what they
know.
And yet there's this pull.
There's this pull to try andget them in there, and it causes
conflict.
So I would say that Philipindeed does perceive the difference
(31:46):
between the axioms of oursacred universe and the rules made
by man.
I think he does see the difference.
But I think the point you'reraising about our society is extremely
important that I'll start at home.
The pain I felt for five yearssearching for my child was because
(32:11):
I was looking among the thingsmade by humans.
In vitro fertilizations,higher rates of conception.
And it was only when I fully.
It's not just surrendered,leaned forward, trusted, and walked
the path of divine guidance.
That's when it came full circle.
(32:34):
Well, first of all that thefamily came.
But this is not only a storyof the family arriving, It's a story
of a spiritual path.
I think perhaps there for allof us through which we awaken, where
we move from the things thatwe count on made by humans that don't
show up.
And certainly in Covid thatwas clear our institutions, you know,
oh, the hospital's full up.
(32:55):
Your employer closed, youknow, the things by humans to opening
to the deep, buoyant guidancethat we are loved and held, guided
and never alone of God,spirit, the universe.
That hundred percent.
I don't mean half and half orninety percent.
Hundred percent.
Full trust that I'm going tohave my front heel strike on the
(33:19):
divine path.
That's a choice.
And it came to me very, veryclear that that is the only path
that we are designed to walk,the spiritual path.
You know, it's almost manyyears ago when I sat in circle, obviously
someone deadly departed.
So I can talk about this thing.
And I do deep trance work.
(33:42):
And I remember one of thestatements that I've lived by ever
since that came through whenwe were in circle was from my own
spirit team, my own guide, whosaid, the truth is the truth no matter
what.
It is merely the perception oftruth that is manipulated by man.
But divine truth will never change.
It is constant.
(34:05):
Well, I think we're built.
Having walked that path andmade a choice at the fork in the
road, the rest of my life, Iwill do everything I can to walk
the sacred path, the spiritual path.
I could at times getdistracted or make mistakes.
But my mission is to walk thespiritual path.
(34:27):
I then set, as a scientist towork to help through the lens of
science, bear witness to this.
This awesome truth that I knewthrough my deep intuitive knowing,
through my mysticalperception, through what we now know
as our birthright forspiritual awareness.
I set to show that to themedical community, the mental health
(34:50):
community, because thelanguage at the moment of the mental
health community was one ofclinical science.
And if we could show thecentrality and transformative power
of spiritual awareness, what Icall awakened awareness, if we could
reveal the awakened brain,then perhaps mental health could
(35:12):
embrace this deep foundationaltruth of who we are as humans.
Lisa, what gave you the ideato look at?
Because I love the aspect thatyou dive into the neuroscience science
as well.
And I'm forever arguing withscientists on the brain and the mind.
So what gave you this inkling that.
(35:32):
Wait a minute.
There's got to be a concept inour biological makeup, in the brain
that is set for spiritualawakening, spiritual realization.
And as you suggest, it's avery beautiful point, and it's a
subtle point, Chuck, that I'mnot saying the brain makes spirituality.
Right.
I'm saying that the brain isperhaps a docking station or an antenna
(35:56):
or an expression of space.
That's what I say.
Yeah.
The brain is an expression ofdivine mind, or mind, as the mind
being the psychologicalbuilding blocks of our reality.
Beautiful.
And that is, for neuroscience,hopefully, where we are in our growth.
That in the 20th century, themetaphor of the brain was like a
(36:18):
factory making packages ofsomething, that the brain packages
up thoughts.
But increasingly, in the 21stcentury, we're starting to understand
consciousness.
And here we're talking aboutsacred consciousness.
Not just information, butlove, guidance and intention.
Sacred.
And from coming from source,the sacred, who I call God.
(36:40):
So here we are starting tounderstand consciousness as existing
independent of matter, whichmeans that the brain can be a reification,
coming into form and antennaof sacred consciousness.
And what we have in our MRImachines is the capacity to show
(37:00):
which part of the brains gohand in hand with receiving consciousness.
Right.
Which parts of the brain areengaged during moments of deep spiritual
awareness?
And to a mental health field,that's very powerful evidence that
we are built for spiritual awareness.
And we take that and we say,listen, every human being on earth
(37:23):
is built as an innatelyspiritual being, an innately spiritual
being.
I think it's amazing.
I think that's amazing becauseit also brings to the forefront of
our minds or the forefront ofreality, that with that being the
truth, or with that beingreality, that we have the power to
(37:48):
be able to reverse what it has.
What maybe has came inunbalanced, you know where.
And maybe that's somewherewhere we need to go even deeper,
especially in mental health,because I see it as an imbalance,
as something that we need tobring into balance.
And so we have that powerwithin us.
(38:09):
And.
But most people don't realize that.
And it's all of ours, as you say.
It's all of ours.
Right.
So it's.
Well, I'll share with you afew points of science that I think
really have helped changemental health.
The first is that science hasa tool.
Science has always had aperfectly good lens for looking at
(38:32):
innate spirituality, but wedidn't use it.
We didn't use it.
And that was not a limitationof our lens.
We can point our lens at abroad host of questions, whether
it's an MRI study or anepidemiological study or a telescope.
We can point it anywhere.
But the limitation in the 20thcentury was in us, the scientists.
We, the scientists, now thatwe have started asking questions
(38:56):
about spirituality and thehuman journey and the road of life.
I.
The findings I take to be aform of sacred witness.
It is jaw dropping, Jock.
It is.
I mean, it is.
It's like when we split theatom and infinite energy came out.
A sacred moment like that.
(39:18):
So what do we know?
Okay, well, for when we usethe twin study method, twins raised
together, twins raised apart.
Factor out genes, environment,we can know, you know, anything about
the extent to which a humancapacity is inborn or environmentally
shaped.
So temperament.
If we're outgoing,introverted, high strung, laid back,
(39:39):
that's half inborn, halfenvironmentally formed.
So if a baby wakes up in thenight and is anxious, we can soothe
the baby.
If we find ourselves a littleuncomfortable in social situations,
we can change our innerenvironment through meditation or
other ways of using our inner life.
Well, the capacity throughwhich we perceive into the spiritual
(40:00):
reality, our awakened brain isone third innate.
It is a human inborn capacity.
But it is two thirdsenvironmentally formed, which means
our opportunity to engage, topractice, to learn.
I liken it in some respects tomusical ability.
There's.
We all can feel the deep rhythm.
(40:22):
We all have an innate musical ability.
We can all enjoy maybe movinga little to a song and dance.
We all are innately rhythmic,if you will.
And then there's natural humanvariability and honoring your audience
here.
There's probably a greatnumber of people who are exquisitely
attuned, who are the maestrosand the composers and the.
(40:45):
The professional musicians, ifyou will.
And those folks arerepresentative of human variability.
We have one spiritual brainall around the world.
But there's naturalvariability, some as there's with
music or math or anything else.
And of course, two thirdsenvironmentally formed means that
our use of this gift of ourawakened brain to practice, whether
(41:08):
it's through prayer andmeditation, whether it's through
service, and service in a waythat's guided by spirit, the more
we use our awakened brain, thestronger it becomes.
And that includes sacred work.
So I honor every human beingas a spiritual being.
And to the extent that wechoose to engage the spiritual path,
(41:31):
we strengthen evermore this birthright.
Do you think one of the.
One of the things that I wantto jump on.
You've mentioned choice anumber of times, which is probably
one of the greatest divinegifts that we've ever been given.
Beautiful.
Oh, Chuck, what a way to thinkof it.
Yes, absolutely.
The power of choice that weare given by the divine is up to
(41:52):
us.
And I have this concept whereI say we have restricted free will
because we don't have totalfree will.
Because if we had total freewill, then destiny wouldn't play
a part in it and we wouldn'thave spiritual growth.
We wouldn't learn anything.
But I feel that the power ofchoice that we have probably it's
a dialogue, and it probablybecomes stronger with struggle and
(42:17):
trauma, which leads us tobecoming more aware of the power
of choice that we have to takea spiritual path where we may then
fall away from a religious,dogmatic belief system and then start
to investigate, wait a minute.
We are greater than the sumtotal of anything that we are.
(42:39):
And we are greater than theperceptions and the expectations
of religion.
Where is the seed of awarenessin us?
Has taken us to a new levelwhere we're maybe jumping between
knowledge and wisdom.
Wisdom being the hidden bridgeand knowledge being the intellectual.
So I so agree with you thatchoice is a sacred gift.
(43:00):
And I sometimes think ofchoice in these moments where we
know it is a profound momentof choice.
I mean, sometimes it can beclear and outward, but sometimes
it's something more nuancedthat we know through our knowing
heart, our intuition, ourmystical awareness.
I think of those moments ofchoice as something of a wormhole
(43:21):
between universes, thateverything unfolds differently from
that point.
That's not to say we can't be redeemed.
We can.
We can always be redeemed and forgiven.
Have another wormhole,perhaps, if it's given.
But choice is a sacred Moment.
And I think of it indeed as adialogue with the sacred universe.
What are you showing me now?
What do you ask of me now?
(43:42):
I've worked for four years.
Interestingly, Jock, thePentagon and I have worked together
for three, three and a half,close to four years.
And the chief of chaplains inthe Pentagon, two star General Chaplain
Tom Soldier speaks of divine appointment.
He talks about moments wherethere's two helicopters taking off
(44:03):
and there's just been combatand where does he go?
And he feels in his spiritualheart go left.
Even though, you know, theplan was to go right.
And the plan until that momenthad been to board the helicopter
on the right.
The heart says go left.
So he goes left and he gets onthe helicopter and it takes off and
there's three wounded soldiers.
And chaplain Soldier tells thestory of being able to pray and be
(44:26):
in deep spiritual communitywith these three soldiers, deep spiritual
bond.
And Jock, all three of them survived.
Wow, that's powerful intuitionright there.
And I love his term divine appointment.
That when we listen to thepull of God, of spirit saying go
left this time, that's adivine appointment.
(44:48):
And sure enough, who shouldcome around the corner but.
And there's an opportunity forhelping, for healing, for being a
trail angel.
You know, it's amazing.
When I wrote my first book,when I wrote powers of the sixth
sense, I wrote it after 9, 11to show.
It's called how to remain safein a Hostile World.
And that's exactly what I talkabout about these, the divine nuances,
(45:11):
how to discern the differencebetween the ego mind and to discern
the intuit of the divine mind,to be able to.
And I interviewed a lot ofsoldiers as well.
Being a soldier myself, I kindof, I understood it how we can utilize
that power, that sacred powerthat we have within us to remain
(45:32):
safe in a potentially hostile situation.
And it is a deeper form of knowing.
Yeah.
And you know, it'sinteresting, I love how you say knowing
because that's something Iespouse all the time.
I've been on many radio showsand they've said, you know, do you
believe in the afterlife?
And I say, no, I actuallydon't believe in anything because
if I believe in something,that means I'm open, I have room
(45:55):
for interpretation.
And I don't want to believe inanybody's perceptions or expectations.
I want to come to knowing.
Because no one is divine, noone means there is no interpretation.
It comes from a divine sourceand it's connected, interconnected
to me.
So I, I love the fact that youtalk about knowing.
Wonderful.
(46:16):
I think you're raising a pointas well, that oftentimes spirituality
is spoken of as a belief.
Yeah.
Through the lens of clinicalscience, spirituality is an innate
seat.
It is a neuro seat of perception.
Yeah.
So we are built to quitespecifically be able to perceive
the transcendent, the loving,guiding transcendent, and perceive
(46:42):
that presence, that sacredpresence in our love for one another
as fellow human beings.
Transcendence and immanence.
We are built with a neurodocking station to perceive transcendence
and immanence, who we reallyare to each other.
And fellow living beings likeMother Duck, of course.
So we are all in this sacred dialogue.
(47:04):
And the more that we not justpay attention, but contribute.
Thank you, Mother Duck.
And help her someday.
The more that we're part of.
That's prayer in action.
In my point of view.
Then we are participating inthis divine orchestra.
Yeah.
I always teach students that.
(47:24):
The same.
And we spoke about this yesterday.
And I think it exemplifies beautifully.
What you're saying is that thesame animating force that animates
the duck animates us.
It means that, you know, LisaMiller was the duck and the Duck
was Lisa Miller.
There was no separation.
There was more connection thanthere was disconnection.
And I think when humanitycomes to understand that, maybe we
(47:46):
can transcend this idea ofhumanity and start to realize that
we are actually interconnectedmore than we even imagine.
And that every thought andevery action and every prayer has
its own internal power to beable to transform and change.
And just as who I call God,Spirit, source, universal force for
(48:08):
us is loving, holding andguiding and never leaves us alone,
we, through this greatpresence, can show up for one another
to be loving, holding andguiding so that no one is ever left
alone.
We can be instruments ofdivine expression.
You know, you've had amazing experience.
(48:30):
There's a lot of people outthere, Lisa, that don't have.
That have probably missed the experiences.
It may even be right in frontof their face, but they miss it.
As a scientist, you haveexperienced the lows and the highs
and the spiritual awakening.
What would you say to peopleout there that are struggling now
(48:53):
with maybe where they are inthe world or the fact that they don't
feel held in love?
What could you awaken in them?
That feeling of emptiness anddoubt and total alienation.
That darkness is actually the start.
It's the ignition of thespiritual path.
(49:15):
It is the pounding at the doorof an opening to awakening.
And gently, very gently, Iinvite you to watch who comes and
how they come.
Whether it's dusting off arusty prayer or meditating or talking
to fellow living beings innature, rejoining the kingdom.
(49:40):
I don't think that Eden issomeplace in the past.
I think Eden is when we joinin the symphony of all life.
Oh, that's brilliant.
That is brilliant.
I love that.
That's actually probably goingto be one of the clips that we take
from here to promote the episode.
I think that's beautiful.
And how you say that rightthere, inviting you in.
(50:03):
Yeah.
And, you know, people miss itbecause I tend to think people don't
look with their spiritual eyes.
They're too busy looking.
I have a saying.
They say, don't look with theeyes of the merchant, look with the
eyes of the spirit.
Beautiful.
Because that's the way we think.
Lisa, we're coming.
It's up to nearly an hour.
I've loved having you.
I really, really enjoyedhaving you on here, and I want you
(50:25):
to come back on because Ithink there's a lot more that we
can unpack.
I hope you will, Chuck.
You're wonderful.
It's a joy to share the path.
I love it.
I think there's a lot thatpeople can learn from this.
And for you guys that are outthere that are also on a grief path,
you'll catch myself and Lisagoing into another, deeper subject
(50:45):
on Pillars of Grief, which ismy other podcast.
But remember, from what youlisten in here, there's a great deal
of hidden lessons in this.
The paranormal is actually sonormal because we're all connected
and we all only exist becausethe divine spirit runs through us.
And when we recognize that,then, you know, the expression of
(51:11):
the brain being the expressionin the mind, understand that you
have the power to transformyour depression.
You have the power totransform your sadness.
You have the power totransform every aspect of your life.
And if one thing you can learn.
I just want to bring up thebook again.
Guys, you gotta buy this book.
I told you.
I bought it on audible,Kindle, and in hardback.
(51:34):
There's a lot of lessons in this.
I've read many, many books inmy life, and there's very few that
I really, really love.
And this is one that I reallylove because it exemplifies not only
science, but it exemplifieswhat we are trying to do and what
we've been trying to do for somany years to bring spirit and science
together and show that thereis actually a relationship, just
(51:55):
as there is in divine law, andthat none of them are different.
We're actually so much morethe same.
Josh, thank you for sharing inthe awakened brain.
It is a joy to share this withyou and your community.
Oh, I love it and I can't waitto have you back on.
And do you want to just sayfinal thoughts to people out there?
Tell us what you're planningnext or what you've got on the cards?
(52:16):
I wish you so much joy and discovery.
The spiritual path can hurt attimes, but it's always an invitation
to a deeper understanding ofhow very much we are loved and held
and that you are never, ever,ever alone.
And so I'd say thank you forthis gift of being with you and may
God bless.
You loved it.
(52:37):
Thank you.
Loved it.
And just remember guys, thatyour trauma is the gateway to your
awakening.
God bless.
Thank you for joining us onDeadly Departed.
Hi there ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you very much.
If you have purchased DeadlyDeparted, it means a lot to me.
Thank you from the bottom ofmy heart for supporting my work.
(52:57):
And if you haven't boughtDeadly Departed yet, then consider
buying Deadly Departed.
You can get it on Amazon oryou can get it in any bookstore and
you can show proof of purchaseand join my closed group.
You can also reach out to meon Instagram at any time, Spiritual
Medium, if you have a questionand I will answer it.
Have a wonderful day, ladiesand gentlemen, and thank you once
(53:18):
again.
God Bless.
You've been listening toDeadly Departed with renowned evidential
medium and author Jock Brocas.
If you like what you've heard,make sure to pick up a copy of the
Deadly Departed book.
Don't forget to share theepisodes and send in your questions
to us about anythingparanormal and the afterlife.
(53:39):
Tune in next time to DeadlyDeparted, the do's, don'ts and dangers
of afterlife communication.
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