July 19, 2023 • 53 mins
On this enlightening episode of "Deadly Departed," join our host, Jock Brocas, as he delves into the captivating work and research of renowned psychologist, Dr. Lisa Miller. A pioneer in the field of spiritual psychology, Dr. Miller offers groundbreaking insights into the profound connection between our brains and spiritual experiences.
From her extensive research, Dr. Miller reveals that our minds are not solely instruments of logic and physical processing, but are also intrinsically set for spiritual transcendence. Her revolutionary findings invite listeners to contemplate the idea of an "Awakened Brain" - one that seamlessly integrates rational thinking and spiritual awareness.
In a riveting conversation that merges the scientific with the spiritual, Jock Brocas and Dr. Miller embark on a journey that challenges conventional wisdom and unfolds the complex tapestry of the human psyche. Unearth the transformative potential of spirituality and neuroscience intertwined, and discover a fresh, new perspective on the innate spiritual capacity of our minds.
Don't miss this thought-provoking exploration into the realm of the 'Awakened Brain.' It's an enlightening episode that promises to stimulate your intellect and awaken your spirit.
Connect with Dr Miller - https://www.lisamillerphd.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock here and this is Deadly Departed that the guest
is coming on. This is Lisa Miller, who is the
author of The Awakened Brain. You know, in In Deadly Departed.
We have many different male Parapsychologists.
We touch on the paranormal, We touch on Parapsychology, we
touch on psi. And often times there are
experiences that we don't understand.
(00:25):
And science doesn't necessarily understand these experiences
either. So it's brilliant when you come
across some research and some work that actually spans a great
deal of consciousness, the paranormal, spirituality,
spiritual awakening and precognition.
And all of this is experienced in Lisa's work, in fact,
(00:47):
actually experienced in Lisa's life.
And she's a professor at the University of Columbia.
Oh my God, that right. And the work that she's done has
been revolutionary, I believe, in bringing spirituality and
spiritual awakening. And to science.
And to the mainstream as well. So I can't wait, guys, for you
to meet Lisa and to dive in to her work and to dive into what
(01:09):
it meant for her and her experiences over the years.
And in fact, she's actually now running a spiritual psychology
program in an Ivy League school.So let's dive in.
Let's get right to it and meet Lisa.
God bless. Welcome to Deadly Departed, the
Do's, Don'ts, and dangers of Afterlife Communication.
This show discusses all aspects of afterlife communication,
(01:33):
grief and grieving, the paranormal, and of course,
parapsychology. There's real stories, scientific
discussion, and most of all, real learning from paranormal
experts and researchers. Here's your host, author of
deadly departed, renowned, evidential, medium, and spirit
interventionist Jock Brocas. Hey, welcome back ladies and
(01:59):
gentlemen. This is Jock from Deadly
Departed. And as you probably seen from my
introduction, I am rather excited to speak to Lisa Miller,
who is my guest today is Professor Lisa Miller, the
author of The Awakened Brain. And as you'll know, this is my
one of my most favorite books atthe moment, and we're going to
talk about Lisa's work, The science of Spirituality, and her
(02:23):
story of Awakening. And then Lisa, welcome to Deadly
Departed. It's great to see you.
I'm so grateful to be with you, Jock, and I'm honored to share
in this community of very attuned, open people, so this is
really a particular joy. Thank you.
I'm delighted. As you know, I was excited to
get you and it took us a long time to do this and then
(02:44):
yesterday we actually started doing it and had technical
difficulties, so hopefully todaywe'll have no problem.
But as you know, time is an active variable.
This may be the right time. That's it.
It's divine timing, divine timing.
So tell us a little bit about obviously about your.
About your history, let's go in a little bit about your history
(03:05):
until you got to the point of writing the book, because that's
very important to lay the foundation of your work.
Thank you, Jock. And you know, as a scientist,
when I wrote The Awakened Brain,it was important to me that the
awakened brain be about a personal journey, about the
deep, hard data of our lived inner experience, every bit as
(03:27):
much as the outward science. And so the awakened brain is.
Really about my journey on a spiritual path, as we all have a
spiritual path and how some of the most painful times in our
lives are the traumas. The pains of that are
excruciating at times in the heart are actually the gateway
to a spiritual awakening. You know you in your life.
(03:51):
Obviously, with your scientific background, it's probably really
difficult for others to really. Appreciate how you brought
together your science and your spirit.
Because in your, you know, as I'm you know, recognized from
your book, you have grief, you have, you know, spiritual
(04:13):
awakening, you have attended shamanic practices.
And yet. You're steeped in this
materialistic science, and we'llgo into that a little bit later.
But you're kind of steeped in this world of science.
And I love how you open up at the very beginning of the book
with the idea or proven essentially that our brain is
(04:37):
actually built up for spiritual advancement and spiritual
awareness. But you, I mean, in your book,
you've had precognition, you've had intuition, you've had
psychic ability. How can you, how can you
actually bring all that togetherin your experience to to come
out, if you like, come out in the scientific closet?
(04:59):
And all of those forms of knowing as I share in the
awakened brain, are hardwired, valid forms of knowing.
And I know that through my spiritual path.
I know that through the outward lens of science.
And both are woven together in the awakened brain.
But because you so graciously invited me, jock, to share the
(05:20):
story, I'm grateful to share thestory with your community.
I, like many people in my 30s, wanted to start a family, and my
husband and I, at that point, had done everything by the book.
That we had wanted to set up ourlives in a sort of outward way.
(05:40):
So, you know, he was working as a lawyer in New York.
We had an apartment and we had friends and I had made my way
through a PhD program and was now a clinical psychologist and
everything was all set up and itwas time for us to start a
family like listen now implicitly for the.
Illusion of control that humans hit the button when that Yeah,
(06:03):
exactly right, the. Focus tick in.
Yes, right. And then I sort of pulled the
cord and now now is time we willstart our family as if humans
made life, right. So there we were and we started
to socalled try as we understoodit at that time.
We did it in the way many couples do.
We said we will take a vacation to.
(06:23):
The Caribbean. We went off to Saint Martin and
it was beautiful and the sun wasbright and then a little cottage
we so-called, tried and the few weeks later no baby.
And we thought, well, who gets one for one?
So we went off to Sedona. Nice bright spiritual place.
Still no baby. And after this went on for about
6-8 ten months, I started to getthis haunting feeling like, wait
(06:47):
a minute, what if what if we can't conceive, you know?
And it was so. Horrifying to me that I pushed
it out of my mind. I couldn't even bear what what
if we can't conceive? So I, you know, went further
down this path and further down this path, and we started to
feel quite not just disappointed, but after a while,
(07:07):
a longing depression, even really despairing.
Hit in hit rock bottom. We had okay let's get help.
So we went to you know an excellent fertility Dr. on the
Upper West Side where we were living.
No baby. We thought well, you know we
don't need to live in it to our neighborhood just because it's
an easy walk. Let's search the Northeast.
(07:30):
I'm a clinical scientist. Let's find the highest rates of
conception. We went to that office no baby.
And as we went further down thispath I UI.
I VF second, I VFII started to get this haunting feeling that
you know, the message from doctors was you're healthy,
(07:50):
you're healthy, we can get you pregnant.
Again, the human control implicit in all this.
But I started to wonder in my heart if we were in the wrong
place. It just didn't feel that an hour
path. This is where we were being
called, but it's this. Hunger to have a child was so
(08:12):
great that I kept going and I said, let's go to the people who
invented IVF. Surely they can get us pregnant.
And sure, this, this team had come up with it, you know, a
couple decades ago. And there we were, you know,
pretty despairing, pretty depleted, but hopeful because
oh, here's the best team in the whole country.
(08:33):
My heart still knew it. It was inauthentic.
Our path was inauthentic for us.So sitting there post IVF, you
know they put the fertilize eggsback in you right?
My husband, being very sweet, hesat beside me in solidarity on
bed rest. So there we were, side by side
(08:54):
on bed rest and in this, you know, we wanted to be nice to
ourselves. It was just one night we
splurged for a very nice hotel in Rittenhouse Square.
We click the remote, my husband,and on the TV there's.
Only one channel and we think, well, wait a minute, you know,
at these prices. So we're clicking, clicking one
channel like Caps Bangs goes to the TV1 channel.
(09:16):
What are we watching? Really the only choice that we
might watch was a excruciating for our jock.
This was a documentary on an orphan.
I remember that. I remember that in the book.
It was quite a poignant moment actually.
Very much so. So we're on our 7th in vitro,
(09:39):
third team trying to get pregnant human control, pull out
the stops, and what comes back to us from the universe is the
voice of a little orphan througha translator standing in a
garbage dump. And he says, I don't care that I
live in the trash. He's literally living in trash.
(10:00):
I don't care that I can't. Go to school, but it hurts so
much to not be loved that, I sniffed.
That actually brought a bit of tear to my eye when I read that.
I sniffed glue to make the pain go away of not being loved, the
orphan said. All I want is love.
So here we are on this really kind of, you know, solipsistic.
(10:23):
Let's get that baby that has, you know, your looks and your
humor and you know and you know.My resilience and let's get that
that baby, that's that's us in avery material sense.
In a very human control sense like air traffic control.
It's control the variables and the universe says all he needed.
This boy could have been your child.
(10:45):
All he needed was love and all you needed was a child.
He could have not been living ina garbage dump in pain and you
could have not been on this now 3 1/2 four year journey.
So the message was pretty clear.And my husband, who is really
the sort of gracious civilian inthis journey, looks over at me
(11:06):
and says, you know, there's a child out there for us.
And then we knew. And once we got that picture, we
started to see more and more helpers and healers showing up
on our Rd. of life more. Your synchronicity started going
coming in tenfold from the otherside.
Absolutely. The most glorious, of course, is
(11:29):
my truly my mother. Is is she may not even know it.
A plainclothes shaman, you know,And she's the 1st to call.
And she said, you know, I just wanted to let you know she knew
nothing about this powerful synchronicity we just shared on
bed rest. I just wanted you to know our
neighbor. And I'll call her.
(11:50):
Greta Jones has just adopted themost beautiful little boy.
His name is Robert Paul, and he's so wonderful.
And he's from Russia. And just so you know, here's the
information. Love you.
Bye. You know, it's crazy because
it's it's that That in itself isa spiritual intervention.
Yes. And I think that's amazing.
(12:11):
I, you know, reading that in thebook as well, I was like, you
know what? They're meant to have it.
But it's not meant to be in the material world.
It's got to be surrendered to the divine.
This gracious, loving guidance, this sacred divine.
You know, hold, guided, loved, held, guided, loved at, you
know, at all times. And what were we doing?
(12:34):
We were fighting the river. We were swimming upstream.
No, no more. One more in vitro.
One more in vitro. Human control put the pieces
together mechanistically. And who I call God, you could
call divine spirit or the force of sacred force of life, was
really ushering us down the road.
We were at a fork in the road. And if I I quiver to think if I
(12:57):
hadn't listened right. Although we know if we don't we
do get another chance the the volumes turned up such a loving,
guiding universe. We we do get multiple chances,
but that that was a major fork in the road and we started
listening more carefully and paying more deep observance to
(13:17):
the synchronicities the really assure us along our path.
So this continues, and right as we kind of get the picture one
night shock. I'm in bed sleeping next to my
husband and I feel a presence coming.
I can feel the presence coming closer and closer.
(13:40):
And I sit up, sit up. And time and space open up.
This is about three, of course, 3:00 AM, and time and space open
up, and it's numinous And there's an opening in time and
space. And a very sacred presence
comes, and the message is If youare pregnant, will you adopt?
(14:02):
That's the message. Don't worry, I'm getting
goosebumps with this again. And this is exactly what
happened when my wife and I weredriving and listening and
audible with both of us. Got goosebumps with it because
you know what's coming. You can feel the presence
coming. Very sacred.
Very sacred, Very Regal's not quite the word.
(14:23):
It's beyond that. It's an ultimate presence.
It's a profound presence. It is a.
Ultimate sacred Presence. And the message was clear and
the voice was deep and resonant.Deep and resonant like an ohm.
It was a deep and resonant voice.
And I, in the presence of some the ultimate Sacred Presence.
(14:48):
Of course, we're very honest. And I said honestly, no, no.
You know, if we got pregnant at one of these Ivf's, I'd go with
that baby. And so we continue further down
the path. And I I can't get my sticky
fingers off it. You know, the baby with my my
schnoz and my husband's humor. Let's get that.
The little us, you know and further down the path and I have
(15:09):
more in vitros, More in vitros. Can you imagine what this does
to the body, you know? I know you mentioned that you
were you were suffering physically from all of the.
Injections and the holes in yoursystem.
They take out maybe 20 eggs at atime.
I seem to respond quite prolifically to this medication.
I thought, well, for me and our path, this didn't seem fluid.
(15:31):
This didn't seem aligned and sentonic.
So I can't resist, though it's sort of the the, the knowing of
the heart versus the sticky fingers of the striving mind.
And I gotta have it so more in Vitros and I come back from the
house. This is after about our ninth in
vitro. And I just have this sinking
feeling in my heart that we're still in the wrong place and
(15:53):
that we've sort of strayed now we're not sticking to our path.
And as I step up to our front door of our home in the country,
peaceful, quiet place, Used to be a fishing cabin, tiny, little
lovely place on the front door is a there's something moist and
wet and I can't tell what it is.I haven't seen this before.
And I lean forward and it's a dead embryo I'm walking.
(16:18):
Back from an in vitro and there's a dead embryo on my
doorstep. I mean, it's irrefutable what
this means, right? This.
You know what it. Means.
Clearly it's far too unprobabilistic to have happened
by chance in the years before, and in the 20 years since,
there's never been the dead embryo on my front step.
That's a sign. That's a sign of 1/2.
And it's of guidance, right. And as excruciating as it is,
(16:42):
you know, I mean, completely depressing, right?
Yeah, absolutely. I understand that.
Yeah. I look closely and it's it's a
dead duck, a beautiful dead duckembryo.
And I just, you know, it's too depressing.
I in the middle of the day, I goin, I lie down on the couch in
my study and I go to sleep. And then I hear I'm woken by
this tapping on my door, my my sliding glass door looking out
(17:08):
to the river. And I get up and I'm like, who
could that? And it's it's a Mama duck, and
she's brought me. Something of great comfort, of
great value to her. She's brought me a plump, juicy
worm and she's at never has a duck before, Never has a duck
since. Come right out of the river, up
the stairs to the porch to my study to bring me a plump, juicy
(17:32):
worm. She lost her baby, and she was
comforting me for losing. Mind.
So we are loved and held and guided by spirit, who I call
God, the great force of life. And we show up for one another.
Whether it is my mother, the shaman, right, or fellow living
(17:56):
being mother doc, we show up forone another.
We are all emanations raised from the sun of divine
orchestration. And as painful as that was, I
felt such love and I felt. That we are being this is a
buoyant path. We are not alone here.
We are We are never alone. Was that moment and and timely,
(18:18):
so your catalyst to your spiritual awakening?
Because I know that you had a spiritual outlook before, but
this seemed to be the moment. You're talking in my path.
It's almost like there's rounds like an upward Helix, you know,
more and more going over closer.And so the presence came back.
The Presence came back and and again in the night I sat up, it
(18:42):
was about 3:00 AM, sat up, just woke up suddenly and the sacred
opening of time and space. And it's numinous, it's
numinous, right? And the Presence, I could feel
the Presence coming. There's almost a rhythm as the
Presence comes and asks if you were pregnant, would you adopt?
And I said, I am so much closer,like I'm getting it.
(19:05):
But truthfully, if this instant I got pregnant, no.
But I could feel I was approaching someone ready to
inherent parenthood, which is unconditional love and
acceptance. And I was getting what
parenthood was. It's like, not my schnauz and my
husband's sense of humor. It is the deep.
Cool. Unconditional.
So this goes further, right and I get a call from another trail
(19:29):
Angel as I call them those who help as we meet synchronicities
guys on our. Emanations of of spirit.
And this is my older cousin. My name is Lisa Jane.
My big cousin is Jane. First name Jane.
I'm little Jane. She's big Jane.
It's always been that way. And she's sort of a guide who's
extremely frank with me, you know, told me unwanted things.
(19:52):
I didn't even want to know aboutmy family, you know, very frank
with me. And she calls and she says, you
know, hey, little cuz, I know you're having a struggle.
I know you're having a hard time.
And I'm wondering if you might come out here to a healing
ceremony of the Lakota. And I said, well, I'd love to
come, but I, you know, I have this appointment in Pittsburgh.
(20:15):
She's like, well, the healing ceremony is in three days.
And it worked out, Jock, that I went first to our appointment in
Pittsburgh, which was to meet with yes, yes, and then and then
to big James. So the appointment in
Pittsburgh. In this guided path.
Weren't you in the wrong place? That you were at the wrong place
at one point when you had to actually redirect?
(20:37):
Oh, you're good. Yes, Yes.
So we're in Pittsburgh and we'rewith a clergyman's daughter.
And there we are. Phillip and I sit at under
table. It is the clergyman's daughter
who was recommended by my mother.
You know, I have the information.
Goodbye. And this beautiful woman has
helped bring together probably 6, probably not 800 families.
(21:01):
And her walls are lined with photos of beautiful radiant
families, you know, a little baby and parents or children who
are adopted at 4:00 or 8:00 and their families and you know,
they're on bikes or they're camping or it's the holidays
and. Yeah.
And I'm like, yes, yes, I I was feeling like I was starting to
be in the right place. There was so much unconditional
(21:25):
love. I was feeling like, this is this
feels right. So she leans forward and she
says, you've got to be very honest with me.
So I've made hundreds of families, brought them together.
You've got to be honest. What do you want in a child, OK,
And the nuance of what do you want?
Can play either way. You know, it can sound a little
(21:45):
bit like trying to get pregnant.Like, you know, pick and cheese
and control. And I said, you know, I don't
care if this child is a boy or agirl.
I don't care what race this child is, but please, a child
who can love. And my husband leans forward and
kind of puts his shoulder in my space and says, yes, all that
(22:07):
but kind of a girl. And then there's good for
Nathan. Sort of do put my shoulder in
his face. And I say, but foremost a child
who can love. And with that, I went from there
to South Dakota to the call answer, the call of Big Jane.
And there I was with Big Jane and she said, I want you to know
(22:28):
that I've gotten permission fromthe head of the Lakota community
here in South Dakota that you might join us.
In a healing ceremony, I've donea lot of work with this tribe
and they, as a favor to me, havewelcomed you.
And so I go to the healing ceremony, right?
Right from Pittsburgh. And there I am.
It was the most extraordinary experience I've had.
(22:51):
Each person in the Lakota community stood up in front of
the entire community and spoke of why he or she had come.
And after each person told theirstory and no one's looking at
the clock, it could be two minutes, it could be 20 minutes,
it could be an hour. Everyone's listening.
When the person is done Speakingof their pain, the whole
(23:13):
community stands up, the drums start and lines up as each
person, as God's Spirit Wananichi moves their heart,
speaks into that to be that person to be healed their their
ear. And after this process, the men
go one way, the women go the other, and we're all going to
separate inepious sweat lodges. Sitting in the sweat lodge, all
(23:36):
women, led by the woman who called herself the medicine
man's wife. She welcomed us and she said,
tell us why you've come to each woman as the sweat lodge starts
the NEP, the first woman says, I've come because my son is 40
and he's no longer coming home, and I'm worried for those kids.
(23:57):
And everyone really listens. I mean at the level of
consciousness it has registered.And then the next woman speaks.
My son is 14 and he's starting to use drugs and alcohol.
I'm worried he'll be addicted. And everyone again listens and
says, uh huh, Taken in. We go around the circle and it
(24:18):
comes to Big Jane. And Big Jane, you know, I I'm a
professor. I speak for a living.
It felt so good to have Big Janespeak for me in this moment to
this is my cousin little Jane and Jack to this day she she's
(24:38):
come looking for her child and they all look and they get it
and they go, uh huh. And Big Jane says.
I wonder if we can help her findher child sitting here in the
sweat lodge, the round sweat lodge.
And again, listen. Uh huh.
And then we go around, complete the circle and we start the
(24:58):
prayers and we pray. And at the end the fires put out
and we send up the prayers through the top of the Anepia.
And in my minds I I could see the same numinousness.
That's amazing. So that night, that very night,
a call came into my machine in New York.
(25:21):
I picked it up early the next morning.
To this day, I feel so grateful to God.
So grateful for the loving, infinite guidance of God.
The call comes in from Russia. We have found the Miller's
child. We have wonderful girls.
Mr. Miller had asked for a girl,and we can give you a girl but
(25:43):
this. Is the Miller's child, and this
is a son. We had been praying for sons,
and my son now, of course, is called Isaiah for one world,
Lakota, Lakota, for the people who helped us find our child.
(26:03):
It was a extraordinary blessing.So I go home.
I can't wait to see this video of my my son, my spiritual son.
And soon the video comes. And here's this radiant It's an
Angel come to earth, You know. He's up there in an orphanage in
northern Russia. Da da, da.
So full of life. His arm around the nurse, he he
glows. He literally glows.
(26:27):
And that night, after I've seen Isaiah, I've seen our boy, I
feel the presence coming the third time.
And I know now, of course, and it's coming closer and sacred.
Rhythm of approach and the numinous opening in the night.
And the president says, and I I know, but they might, I feel, I
(26:50):
may know what they're going to ask.
If you were pregnant now, would you adopt?
Absolutely. This is my spiritual son.
And that night we conceived naturally his sister kind of a
girl, his spiritual twin. That night, after five years of
(27:14):
all the best infertility doctors, this was not a
mechanistic control problem. This did not live in the
province of human control. This was about a sacred path.
This was a divine intervention. Yes.
And it exemplifies or not a human condition or spiritual
(27:35):
condition. Exemplifies who we are as
spirits having a human experience and not the other way
around. And how we can move in the world
at a foundationally primary, foremost spiritual level, that
it's through the gift and blessings of what I, who I call
trail angels, is sent by spirit,sent by God.
(27:57):
Emanations like rays from the sun.
Trail angels and synchronicity, sacred guidance.
We are loved and held. We are guided and we are never
alone, whether it's Big Jane or Mama Duck, I mean all of the
helpers inhalers along the way. So a spiritual path is a
foundationally spiritual way of being and seeing and perceiving,
(28:22):
knowing of the heart, knowing ofour deep inner spiritual
awareness. And it seemed to me that
depression was a call into an awakening.
That was my journey, that the utter bottom.
Of the barrel despair we felt. I mean, my husband was lying on
the ground with the bear. Our lives are hollow and
meaningless without children. That bottom of pain was the
(28:47):
invitation to pay attention to the loving, guiding universe.
That was the invitation to look and and hear.
And once we opened up to the orphan and the garbage dump as
showing us as being brought to us by God, by spirit, we lived
(29:07):
in a dialogue from then forward.A dialogue.
What do you show me now? Higher power?
What do you ask of me, God? What is a deeper, unconditional
love that would honor us to elevate us to parenthood?
Not that the kid comes home, butthat we are prepared to have
unconditional love. Then we're parents.
(29:31):
Yeah, and how how was was Steve?Was Phillip sorry?
Was he pretty spiritual beforehand, or did this also
have a dramatic impact on his awakening to a certain level?
Jock, That is such a magnificentquestion.
No one's ever asked me that before.
Phillip's mother. Is a very spiritual woman, and a
(29:54):
spiritually oriented psychologist as well, and she
practices as such in his whole childhood.
Was full of stories of a foundationally spiritual
reality. So he honors his mother and he
honors me in being voices of spiritual awareness.
He doesn't always see it himself, or he claims perhaps
(30:16):
not to always see it himself. And yet on the big ones.
He sure gets it and speaks up. So for instance, the orphan in
the garbage dump, it was Philip who said there's a child out
there for. Us.
I noticed that. I was going to say that because
it seemed that there was a synchronistic event that made
him awaken to that point. He awoken, he did awaken to that
(30:41):
point, and he he I think, is completely open to
synchronicity. And does see it, but counts on
sort of his mother, his wife as sort of the.
The gay. Voice in the family to on a
daily basis, but it's a beautiful question Jacques,
because he is open bottom line. That that is ultimate truth.
(31:03):
That is the hard data. That is the bedrock on which we
make a choice. I think there's a there's a
contrast to him because you say he's a he's a lawyer and I've
dealt with, I actually own helplawyer.com, so I've dealt
with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lawyers in my time
and what I find is that the. They try to grasp to a spiritual
(31:24):
concept, but they can't because they don't understand the
difference between divine law and man's law.
They can't equate divine law to man's law.
And so they've caught up in man's law because that's what
they know. And yet there's this pool,
there's this pool to try and getthem in there and it causes
conflict. So I would say that Philip
(31:44):
indeed does perceive the difference between.
The axioms of our sacred universe and the rules made by
man, I think he he does see the difference.
But I but I think the point you're raising about our society
is extremely important that you know I'll start at home.
The pain I felt for five years searching for my child was
(32:10):
because I was looking among the things made by humans.
In vitro fertilizations, higher rates of you know, conception.
And it was only when I fully it's not just surrendered,
leaned forward, trusted, and walked the path of divine
guidance that that's. When it came, well.
(32:34):
First of all that that the family came.
But this it's not. This is not only a story of the
family arriving, it's a it's a story of a spiritual path, I
think perhaps there for all of us.
Through which we awaken where wemove from the things that we
count on made by humans that don't show up.
And certainly in COVID that was clear.
Our institutions, you know, the hospital's full up.
(32:55):
Your employer closed. You know the things by by humans
to opening to the deep buoyant guidance that we're loved and
held, guided and never alone of.God, Spirit, the universe, that
100%. I don't mean half and half or 90
percent, 100% full trust that I'm going to have my front heel
(33:17):
strike on the divine path. That's a choice.
And it came to me very, very clear that that is the only path
that we are designed to walk thespiritual path.
You. Know it's almost.
Many years ago when I sat in circle, obviously someone deadly
departed. So I can talk about this thing
(33:39):
and I do deep trance work and I remember one of the statements
that I've lived by ever since that that came through when when
we were in circle was from my own spirit team, my own guide
who said the truth is the truth no matter what.
It is merely the perception of truth that is manipulated by
man. But divine truth will never
(34:01):
change. It is constant.
Well, I think we're built. And having walked that path and
made a choice, you know, at the fork in the road, the rest of my
life I will do everything I can to walk the sacred path, the
spiritual path. I could at times, you know, get
(34:21):
distracted or make mistakes. But my, my, my mission is to
walk the spiritual path. I then said as a scientist, to
work. To help through the lens of
science, bear witness to this this awesome truth that I knew
through my deep intuitive knowing, through my mystical
perception, through what we now know is our birthright for
(34:45):
spiritual awareness, I set to show that to the medical
community, the mental health community.
Because the language at the moment of the mental health
community was one of clinical science.
And if we could show the centrality and transformative
power of spiritual awareness, what I call awakened awareness,
(35:06):
if we could reveal the awakened brain, then perhaps mental
health could embrace this deep foundational truth.
Of whoever is humans. Lisa, what gave you the idea to
look? Because I love the aspect that
you dive into the neuroscience as well, and I'm forever arguing
with scientists on the brain andthe mind.
(35:28):
So what gave you this, this inkling that, wait a minute,
there's got to be a concept in our biological makeup, in the
brain that is set for spiritual awakening and spiritual
realization? And and as you suggested, it's a
very beautiful point and it's a subtle point that I'm not saying
(35:49):
the brain makes spirituality right, but I'm saying that the
brain is perhaps a docking station or an antenna or an
expression of. That's what I say, yeah, yeah.
The brain is an expression of divine mind, or mind as the mind
being the psychological buildingblocks of our reality.
Beautiful. And that is for neuroscience,
(36:11):
hopefully, where we are in our growth, that in the 20th
century, the metaphor of the brain was like a factory making
packages of something, that the brain packages up thoughts.
But increasingly in the 21st century, we're starting to
understand consciousness. And here we're talking about
sacred consciousness, Not just information, but love, guidance
(36:34):
and intention. Sacred and from coming from
source. The same what I call God.
So here we are starting to understand consciousness as
existing independent of matter, which means that the brain can
be a reification of coming into form, an antenna of sacred
consciousness. And what we have in our MRI
(36:56):
machines is the capacity to showwhich part of the brains go hand
in hand with receiving consciousness.
Right. Which parts of the brain are
engaged during moments of deep spiritual awareness and to a
mental health field? That's very powerful evidence
(37:16):
that we are built for spiritual awareness.
And we take that and we say, listen, every human being on
earth is built as an innately spiritual being.
An innately spiritual being. I think it's amazing.
I think that's amazing because it also brings to to the
(37:37):
forefront of our minds or the forefront of reality that with
that being the truth or with that being reality, that we have
the power to be able to reverse what it has, what maybe has came
in unbalanced. You know where?
(37:57):
And maybe that's somewhere wherewe need to go even deeper,
especially in mental health, because I see it as an
imbalance, as something that we need to bring into balance.
And so we have that power withinus and but most people don't
realize that. And it's all of ours.
As you say, it's all of us, right?
So it's well, I'll share with you a few points of science that
(38:21):
I think really have helped change mental health the 1st.
Is that science has a tool. What?
You know, science has always hada perfectly good lens for
looking at innate spirituality. But we didn't use it.
We didn't use it. And that was not a limitation of
our lens. We can point our lens at a broad
host of questions, whether it's an MRI study or an
(38:43):
epidemiological study or a telescope.
We can point it anywhere. But the limitation in the 20th
century was in us, the scientists we.
The scientists, now that we havestarted asking questions about
spirituality in the human journey and the road of life,
the findings I take to be a formof sacred witness.
(39:05):
It is jaw-dropping Jock. It is, I mean it is it it it's
like when we split the atom and infinite energy came out.
A sacred moment like that, you know?
So what do we know Okay? Well, for when we use the twin
study method, twin throws together, twin throws, depart
factor out genes, environment. We can know, you know, anything
(39:30):
about the extent to which a human capacity is inborn or
environmentally shaped. So temperament, if we're
outgoing, introverted, high strung, laid back, that's half
inborn half environmentally formed.
So if a baby. Wakes up in the night and is
anxious. We can soothe the baby if we
find ourselves a little uncomfortable in social
situations. We can change our inner
(39:51):
environment through meditation or other ways of using our inner
life well. The capacity through which we
perceive into the spiritual reality.
Our awakened brain is 1/3 innate.
It is a human inborn capacity, but it is 2/3 environmentally
formed, which means. Opportunity to engage, to
(40:14):
practice, to learn. And you know I liken it in some
respects to musical ability. There's we all can feel the deep
rhythm we all have an innate musical ability we can all enjoy
maybe moving a little to a we all are innately rhythmic if you
will. And then there's natural human
variability. And and honoring your audience
(40:35):
here, there's probably, you knowa great number of people who are
exquisitely attuned. Who are the maestros and the
composers and the the professional musicians, if you
want. And those folks are, you know,
representative of human variability.
We have one spiritual brain all around the world, but there's
natural variability, some as there's with music or math or
(40:58):
anything else. And of course, 2/3
environmentally formed means that our use of this gift of our
awakened brain to practice, whether it's through prayer and
meditation, whether it's throughservice.
And service in a way that's guided by spirit.
The more we use our awakened brain, the stronger it becomes,
(41:20):
and that includes sacred work. So I I honor every human being
as a spiritual being. And to the extent that we choose
to engage the spiritual path, westrengthen ever more this this
birthright. Do you think you know one of one
of the things that I want to jump was you've mentioned choice
(41:41):
a number of times, which is probably one of the greatest
divine gifts that we've ever been given.
It's beautiful. Oh, Chuck, what a way to think
of it. Yes.
Absolutely. The power of choice that we are
given by the Divine is up to us.We can, we can.
And I I have this concept when Isay we we have restricted free
will because we don't have totalfree will.
Because if we had total free will then destiny wouldn't play
(42:02):
a part in it and we wouldn't have spiritual growth.
We wouldn't learn anything. But I I feel that the power of
choice that we have it's a dialogue and it probably becomes
stronger with. Struggle and trauma.
And which leads us to becoming more aware of the power of
(42:23):
choice that we have to take a spiritual path where we may then
fall away from a religious dogmatic belief system and then
start to, you know, investigate.Wait a minute, we are greater
than the sum total of anything that we are, and we are greater
than the perceptions and the expectations of religion.
(42:44):
Where is the seat? The seed of awareness in us has
taken us to a new level, where we're maybe jumping between
knowledge and wisdom. Wisdom being the hidden bridge
and knowledge being the intellect.
So I I so agree with you that choice is a sacred gift.
And I sometimes think of choice,you know, in these moments where
we know it is a profound moment of choice.
(43:07):
I mean, sometimes it can be, youknow, clear and outward, but
sometimes it's something more nuanced that we know through
our. Knowing heart, our intuition,
our mystical awareness, I think of those moments of choice as
something of a wormhole between universes, that everything
unfolds differently from that point.
That's not to say we can't be redeemed.
(43:27):
We can, as we can always be redeemed and forgiven.
Have another wormhole perhaps, if it's given.
But choice is a sacred moment, and I think of it indeed as a
dialogue with. The sacred universe.
What are you showing me now? What do you ask of me now?
I've worked for four years. Interestingly, Jock, the
Pentagon has and I have worked together for three 3 1/2 close
(43:48):
to four years. And the chief of chaplains in
the Pentagon, two star general Chaplain Tom Souljam speaks of
divine appointment. He talks about moments where
there's two helicopters taking off and there's just been combat
and where does he go? And he feels in his spiritual
heart go left, even though you know the plan was to go right.
(44:11):
And the plan until that moment had been to board the helicopter
on the right, the heart says go left.
So he goes left and he gets on the helicopter and it takes off
and there's three wounded soldiers and chaplain soldier
tells the story of. Being able to pray and be in
deep spiritual community with these three soldiers, deep
spiritual bond and jock. All three of them survived.
(44:34):
Wow, that's powerful intuition right there.
And I love his term divine appointment that when we listen
to the pull of God of Spirit saying go left this time, that's
a divine appointment and sure enough who should come around
the corner but and there's an opportunity for helping.
For healing. For being a trail Angel.
(44:56):
You know, it's amazing. When I wrote my first book, when
I wrote Powers of The Sixth Sense, I wrote it after 911 to
show it's called How to Remain Safe in a Hostile World.
And that's exactly what I talk about, about these the divine
nuances, how to discern the difference between the ego mind
and to discern the intuit of thedivine mind.
(45:19):
To be able to, and I intervieweda lot of soldiers as well-being
a soldier myself, I kind of, I understood it.
How we can utilize that power orthat sacred power that we have
within us to remain safe in a potentially hostile situation.
And it is a deeper form of knowing.
Yeah. And you know, it's interesting.
(45:41):
I love how you say knowing because that's something I
espouse all the time. I've been on many radio shows
and they've said, you know, do you believe in the afterlife?
And I said no. I actually don't believe in
anything, because if I believe in something, I means I'm, I'm
open. I have room for interpretation
and I don't want to believe in anybody's perceptions or
expectations. I want to come to knowing
(46:01):
because no one is divine. No one means that is there is no
interpretation. It comes from a divine source
and it's connected, interconnected to me.
So I I love the fact that you talk about knowing.
And you know I, I, I think you're raising a point as well
that oftentimes spirituality is spoken of as a belief through
(46:22):
the lens of clinical science. Spirituality is an innate seat.
It is a neuro seat of perception.
So we are built and to quite specifically be able to perceive
the transcendent, the loving, guiding, transcendent and
perceive. That presence, that sacred
(46:44):
presence in our love for one another as fellow human beings,
transcendence and eminence. We are built with a neuro
docking station to perceive transcendence and eminence, who
we really are to each other and fellow living beings.
Like Mother Duck, of course. So we are all in this sacred
dialogue and the more that we not just pay attention, but
(47:07):
contribute. Thank you, Mother Duck, and help
her someday. The more that we're part of,
that's prayer and action. In my point of view, then we are
participating in this divine orchestra.
Yeah, I always, I always teach students that the same and we
spoke about this yesterday and Ithink it exemplifies beautifully
(47:28):
what you're saying as the the same animate and force that
animates the duck animates as. It means that, you know, Lisa
Miller was the duck and the duckwas Lisa Miller.
There was no separation. There was more connection than
there was disconnection. And I think when humanity comes
to understand that, maybe we cantranscend this idea of humanity
(47:49):
and start to realize that we areactually interconnected more
than we even imagine, And that every thought and every action
and every prayer has its own internal power to be able to
transform and change. And just as who I call God,
Spirit, Source, universal for usis loving, holding and guiding,
(48:11):
and never leaves us alone, we through this great presence can
show up for one another to be loving, holding and guiding, so
that no one is ever left alone. We can be instruments of divine
expression. You know, you've you've had
amazing, you've had amazing experience.
There's a lot of people out there at least that don't have,
(48:33):
that have probably missed the experiences.
It may even be right in front oftheir face, but they miss it.
As a scientist you have experienced the lows and the
highs and the spiritual awakening.
What would you say to people outthere that are that are
struggling now? With maybe where they are in the
(48:55):
world, or the fact that they don't feel held and loved, what
what could you awaken in them? That that feeling of emptiness
and doubt and total alienation, that darkness is actually the
start. It's the ignition or the
spiritual path. It is the pounding at the door
(49:18):
of an opening to awakening, and gently.
Very gently, I invite you to watch who comes and how they
come, whether it's dusting off arusty prayer or meditating or
talking to fellow living beings in nature rejoining, rejoining
(49:39):
the Kingdom. I I don't think that Eden is
some place in the past. I think Eden is when we join in
the Symphony of all life. Ah, that's brilliant.
That. That is brilliant.
I love that. That's that's actually probably
going to be one of the clips that we take from here to
promote this, to promote the episode.
I think that's beautiful and howyou say?
(50:00):
That right there inviting you in?
Yeah, and and and you know, people miss it because they're.
I tend to think people don't look with their spiritual eyes.
They're too busy looking. I I have a saying they say don't
look with the eyes of the merchant.
Look with the eyes of the spirit, because that's the way
we think. Lisa, I've, you know, we're
coming up to nearly an hour. I've.
(50:21):
I've loved having you. I really, really enjoyed having
you on here. And I want you to come back on
because I think there's a lot more that we can unpack.
I hope you will. Wonderful, I, I said.
Why? To share the past?
I I love. I think there's a lot that
people can learn from this and for you guys that are out there
that are also on the a grief path.
You'll get you'll catch myself and Lisa going into another
(50:45):
deeper subject on Pillars of Grief, which is my other
podcast. But remember, from what you
listen in here, there's a great deal of hidden lessons in this.
Like, the paranormal is actuallyso normal because it is.
We're all connected and we all only exist because the divine
spirit runs through us. And when we recognize that, then
(51:08):
you know. The expression of the the the
the you know, the brain being the expression in the mind.
Understand that you have the power to transform your your
depression. You have the power to transform
your sadness. You have the power to transform
every aspect of your life. And if one thing you can learn,
I just want to bring up the bookagain.
(51:28):
Guys, you got to buy this book. I told you I bought it on
Audible, Kindle and an hardback.There's a lot of lessons in
this. I've I've read, read many, many
books in my life. And there's very few that I
really, really love. And this is one that I really
love, because it exemplifies notonly science, but it exemplifies
what we're trying to do and whatwe've been trying to do for so
(51:49):
many years. To bring spirit and science
together and show that there is actually a relationship, just as
that is in divine law, and that none of them are different.
We're actually so much more the same.
Josh Thank you for sharing in the Awakened Brain.
It is a joy to share this with you and your community.
I love it and and I I can't waitto have you back on.
(52:10):
And do you want to just say final thoughts to people out
there? Tell us what you're planning
next or what you've got on the cards.
I wish you so much joy and discovery.
The spiritual path can hurt at times, but it's always an
invitation to a deeper understanding of how very much
we are loved and held, and that you are never, ever, ever alone.
(52:31):
And so I'd say thank you for this gift of being with you, and
May God bless you. Loved it.
Thank you. Loved it.
And just remember, guys, that your trauma is the gateway to
your awakening. God bless.
Thank you for joining us on Deadly Departed.
Hi there, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much.
If you have purchased Deadly Departed, it means a lot to me.
(52:54):
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting my work.
And if you haven't bought DeadlyDeparted yet, then consider
buying Deadly Departed. You can get it on Amazon or you
can get it in any bookstore and you can show proof of purchase
and join my closed group. You can also reach out to me on
Instagram at anytime at Spiritual Medium if you have a
question and I will answer that.Have a wonderful day, ladies and
(53:16):
gentlemen and thank you once again.
God Bless. You've been listening to Deadly
Departed with renowned evidential, medium and author
Jock Broca's. If you like what you've heard,
make sure to pick up a copy of The Deadly Departed book.
Don't forget to share the episodes and send in your
questions to us about anything paranormal and the afterlife.
(53:39):
TuneIn Next time to Deadly Departed, the Do's don'ts and
dangers of afterlife communication.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Jock here and this is Deadly Departed that the guest
is coming on. This is Lisa Miller, who is the
author of The Awakened Brain. You know, in In Deadly Departed.
We have many different male Parapsychologists.
We touch on the paranormal, We touch on Parapsychology, we
touch on psi. And often times there are
experiences that we don't understand.
(00:25):
And science doesn't necessarily understand these experiences
either. So it's brilliant when you come
across some research and some work that actually spans a great
deal of consciousness, the paranormal, spirituality,
spiritual awakening and precognition.
And all of this is experienced in Lisa's work, in fact,
(00:47):
actually experienced in Lisa's life.
And she's a professor at the University of Columbia.
Oh my God, that right. And the work that she's done has
been revolutionary, I believe, in bringing spirituality and
spiritual awakening. And to science.
And to the mainstream as well. So I can't wait, guys, for you
to meet Lisa and to dive in to her work and to dive into what
(01:09):
it meant for her and her experiences over the years.
And in fact, she's actually now running a spiritual psychology
program in an Ivy League school.So let's dive in.
Let's get right to it and meet Lisa.
God bless. Welcome to Deadly Departed, the
Do's, Don'ts, and dangers of Afterlife Communication.
This show discusses all aspects of afterlife communication,
(01:33):
grief and grieving, the paranormal, and of course,
parapsychology. There's real stories, scientific
discussion, and most of all, real learning from paranormal
experts and researchers. Here's your host, author of
deadly departed, renowned, evidential, medium, and spirit
interventionist Jock Brocas. Hey, welcome back ladies and
(01:59):
gentlemen. This is Jock from Deadly
Departed. And as you probably seen from my
introduction, I am rather excited to speak to Lisa Miller,
who is my guest today is Professor Lisa Miller, the
author of The Awakened Brain. And as you'll know, this is my
one of my most favorite books atthe moment, and we're going to
talk about Lisa's work, The science of Spirituality, and her
(02:23):
story of Awakening. And then Lisa, welcome to Deadly
Departed. It's great to see you.
I'm so grateful to be with you, Jock, and I'm honored to share
in this community of very attuned, open people, so this is
really a particular joy. Thank you.
I'm delighted. As you know, I was excited to
get you and it took us a long time to do this and then
(02:44):
yesterday we actually started doing it and had technical
difficulties, so hopefully todaywe'll have no problem.
But as you know, time is an active variable.
This may be the right time. That's it.
It's divine timing, divine timing.
So tell us a little bit about obviously about your.
About your history, let's go in a little bit about your history
(03:05):
until you got to the point of writing the book, because that's
very important to lay the foundation of your work.
Thank you, Jock. And you know, as a scientist,
when I wrote The Awakened Brain,it was important to me that the
awakened brain be about a personal journey, about the
deep, hard data of our lived inner experience, every bit as
(03:27):
much as the outward science. And so the awakened brain is.
Really about my journey on a spiritual path, as we all have a
spiritual path and how some of the most painful times in our
lives are the traumas. The pains of that are
excruciating at times in the heart are actually the gateway
to a spiritual awakening. You know you in your life.
(03:51):
Obviously, with your scientific background, it's probably really
difficult for others to really. Appreciate how you brought
together your science and your spirit.
Because in your, you know, as I'm you know, recognized from
your book, you have grief, you have, you know, spiritual
(04:13):
awakening, you have attended shamanic practices.
And yet. You're steeped in this
materialistic science, and we'llgo into that a little bit later.
But you're kind of steeped in this world of science.
And I love how you open up at the very beginning of the book
with the idea or proven essentially that our brain is
(04:37):
actually built up for spiritual advancement and spiritual
awareness. But you, I mean, in your book,
you've had precognition, you've had intuition, you've had
psychic ability. How can you, how can you
actually bring all that togetherin your experience to to come
out, if you like, come out in the scientific closet?
(04:59):
And all of those forms of knowing as I share in the
awakened brain, are hardwired, valid forms of knowing.
And I know that through my spiritual path.
I know that through the outward lens of science.
And both are woven together in the awakened brain.
But because you so graciously invited me, jock, to share the
(05:20):
story, I'm grateful to share thestory with your community.
I, like many people in my 30s, wanted to start a family, and my
husband and I, at that point, had done everything by the book.
That we had wanted to set up ourlives in a sort of outward way.
(05:40):
So, you know, he was working as a lawyer in New York.
We had an apartment and we had friends and I had made my way
through a PhD program and was now a clinical psychologist and
everything was all set up and itwas time for us to start a
family like listen now implicitly for the.
Illusion of control that humans hit the button when that Yeah,
(06:03):
exactly right, the. Focus tick in.
Yes, right. And then I sort of pulled the
cord and now now is time we willstart our family as if humans
made life, right. So there we were and we started
to socalled try as we understoodit at that time.
We did it in the way many couples do.
We said we will take a vacation to.
(06:23):
The Caribbean. We went off to Saint Martin and
it was beautiful and the sun wasbright and then a little cottage
we so-called, tried and the few weeks later no baby.
And we thought, well, who gets one for one?
So we went off to Sedona. Nice bright spiritual place.
Still no baby. And after this went on for about
6-8 ten months, I started to getthis haunting feeling like, wait
(06:47):
a minute, what if what if we can't conceive, you know?
And it was so. Horrifying to me that I pushed
it out of my mind. I couldn't even bear what what
if we can't conceive? So I, you know, went further
down this path and further down this path, and we started to
feel quite not just disappointed, but after a while,
(07:07):
a longing depression, even really despairing.
Hit in hit rock bottom. We had okay let's get help.
So we went to you know an excellent fertility Dr. on the
Upper West Side where we were living.
No baby. We thought well, you know we
don't need to live in it to our neighborhood just because it's
an easy walk. Let's search the Northeast.
(07:30):
I'm a clinical scientist. Let's find the highest rates of
conception. We went to that office no baby.
And as we went further down thispath I UI.
I VF second, I VFII started to get this haunting feeling that
you know, the message from doctors was you're healthy,
(07:50):
you're healthy, we can get you pregnant.
Again, the human control implicit in all this.
But I started to wonder in my heart if we were in the wrong
place. It just didn't feel that an hour
path. This is where we were being
called, but it's this. Hunger to have a child was so
(08:12):
great that I kept going and I said, let's go to the people who
invented IVF. Surely they can get us pregnant.
And sure, this, this team had come up with it, you know, a
couple decades ago. And there we were, you know,
pretty despairing, pretty depleted, but hopeful because
oh, here's the best team in the whole country.
(08:33):
My heart still knew it. It was inauthentic.
Our path was inauthentic for us.So sitting there post IVF, you
know they put the fertilize eggsback in you right?
My husband, being very sweet, hesat beside me in solidarity on
bed rest. So there we were, side by side
(08:54):
on bed rest and in this, you know, we wanted to be nice to
ourselves. It was just one night we
splurged for a very nice hotel in Rittenhouse Square.
We click the remote, my husband,and on the TV there's.
Only one channel and we think, well, wait a minute, you know,
at these prices. So we're clicking, clicking one
channel like Caps Bangs goes to the TV1 channel.
(09:16):
What are we watching? Really the only choice that we
might watch was a excruciating for our jock.
This was a documentary on an orphan.
I remember that. I remember that in the book.
It was quite a poignant moment actually.
Very much so. So we're on our 7th in vitro,
(09:39):
third team trying to get pregnant human control, pull out
the stops, and what comes back to us from the universe is the
voice of a little orphan througha translator standing in a
garbage dump. And he says, I don't care that I
live in the trash. He's literally living in trash.
(10:00):
I don't care that I can't. Go to school, but it hurts so
much to not be loved that, I sniffed.
That actually brought a bit of tear to my eye when I read that.
I sniffed glue to make the pain go away of not being loved, the
orphan said. All I want is love.
So here we are on this really kind of, you know, solipsistic.
(10:23):
Let's get that baby that has, you know, your looks and your
humor and you know and you know.My resilience and let's get that
that baby, that's that's us in avery material sense.
In a very human control sense like air traffic control.
It's control the variables and the universe says all he needed.
This boy could have been your child.
(10:45):
All he needed was love and all you needed was a child.
He could have not been living ina garbage dump in pain and you
could have not been on this now 3 1/2 four year journey.
So the message was pretty clear.And my husband, who is really
the sort of gracious civilian inthis journey, looks over at me
(11:06):
and says, you know, there's a child out there for us.
And then we knew. And once we got that picture, we
started to see more and more helpers and healers showing up
on our Rd. of life more. Your synchronicity started going
coming in tenfold from the otherside.
Absolutely. The most glorious, of course, is
(11:29):
my truly my mother. Is is she may not even know it.
A plainclothes shaman, you know,And she's the 1st to call.
And she said, you know, I just wanted to let you know she knew
nothing about this powerful synchronicity we just shared on
bed rest. I just wanted you to know our
neighbor. And I'll call her.
(11:50):
Greta Jones has just adopted themost beautiful little boy.
His name is Robert Paul, and he's so wonderful.
And he's from Russia. And just so you know, here's the
information. Love you.
Bye. You know, it's crazy because
it's it's that That in itself isa spiritual intervention.
Yes. And I think that's amazing.
(12:11):
I, you know, reading that in thebook as well, I was like, you
know what? They're meant to have it.
But it's not meant to be in the material world.
It's got to be surrendered to the divine.
This gracious, loving guidance, this sacred divine.
You know, hold, guided, loved, held, guided, loved at, you
know, at all times. And what were we doing?
(12:34):
We were fighting the river. We were swimming upstream.
No, no more. One more in vitro.
One more in vitro. Human control put the pieces
together mechanistically. And who I call God, you could
call divine spirit or the force of sacred force of life, was
really ushering us down the road.
We were at a fork in the road. And if I I quiver to think if I
(12:57):
hadn't listened right. Although we know if we don't we
do get another chance the the volumes turned up such a loving,
guiding universe. We we do get multiple chances,
but that that was a major fork in the road and we started
listening more carefully and paying more deep observance to
(13:17):
the synchronicities the really assure us along our path.
So this continues, and right as we kind of get the picture one
night shock. I'm in bed sleeping next to my
husband and I feel a presence coming.
I can feel the presence coming closer and closer.
(13:40):
And I sit up, sit up. And time and space open up.
This is about three, of course, 3:00 AM, and time and space open
up, and it's numinous And there's an opening in time and
space. And a very sacred presence
comes, and the message is If youare pregnant, will you adopt?
(14:02):
That's the message. Don't worry, I'm getting
goosebumps with this again. And this is exactly what
happened when my wife and I weredriving and listening and
audible with both of us. Got goosebumps with it because
you know what's coming. You can feel the presence
coming. Very sacred.
Very sacred, Very Regal's not quite the word.
(14:23):
It's beyond that. It's an ultimate presence.
It's a profound presence. It is a.
Ultimate sacred Presence. And the message was clear and
the voice was deep and resonant.Deep and resonant like an ohm.
It was a deep and resonant voice.
And I, in the presence of some the ultimate Sacred Presence.
(14:48):
Of course, we're very honest. And I said honestly, no, no.
You know, if we got pregnant at one of these Ivf's, I'd go with
that baby. And so we continue further down
the path. And I I can't get my sticky
fingers off it. You know, the baby with my my
schnoz and my husband's humor. Let's get that.
The little us, you know and further down the path and I have
(15:09):
more in vitros, More in vitros. Can you imagine what this does
to the body, you know? I know you mentioned that you
were you were suffering physically from all of the.
Injections and the holes in yoursystem.
They take out maybe 20 eggs at atime.
I seem to respond quite prolifically to this medication.
I thought, well, for me and our path, this didn't seem fluid.
(15:31):
This didn't seem aligned and sentonic.
So I can't resist, though it's sort of the the, the knowing of
the heart versus the sticky fingers of the striving mind.
And I gotta have it so more in Vitros and I come back from the
house. This is after about our ninth in
vitro. And I just have this sinking
feeling in my heart that we're still in the wrong place and
(15:53):
that we've sort of strayed now we're not sticking to our path.
And as I step up to our front door of our home in the country,
peaceful, quiet place, Used to be a fishing cabin, tiny, little
lovely place on the front door is a there's something moist and
wet and I can't tell what it is.I haven't seen this before.
And I lean forward and it's a dead embryo I'm walking.
(16:18):
Back from an in vitro and there's a dead embryo on my
doorstep. I mean, it's irrefutable what
this means, right? This.
You know what it. Means.
Clearly it's far too unprobabilistic to have happened
by chance in the years before, and in the 20 years since,
there's never been the dead embryo on my front step.
That's a sign. That's a sign of 1/2.
And it's of guidance, right. And as excruciating as it is,
(16:42):
you know, I mean, completely depressing, right?
Yeah, absolutely. I understand that.
Yeah. I look closely and it's it's a
dead duck, a beautiful dead duckembryo.
And I just, you know, it's too depressing.
I in the middle of the day, I goin, I lie down on the couch in
my study and I go to sleep. And then I hear I'm woken by
this tapping on my door, my my sliding glass door looking out
(17:08):
to the river. And I get up and I'm like, who
could that? And it's it's a Mama duck, and
she's brought me. Something of great comfort, of
great value to her. She's brought me a plump, juicy
worm and she's at never has a duck before, Never has a duck
since. Come right out of the river, up
the stairs to the porch to my study to bring me a plump, juicy
(17:32):
worm. She lost her baby, and she was
comforting me for losing. Mind.
So we are loved and held and guided by spirit, who I call
God, the great force of life. And we show up for one another.
Whether it is my mother, the shaman, right, or fellow living
(17:56):
being mother doc, we show up forone another.
We are all emanations raised from the sun of divine
orchestration. And as painful as that was, I
felt such love and I felt. That we are being this is a
buoyant path. We are not alone here.
We are We are never alone. Was that moment and and timely,
(18:18):
so your catalyst to your spiritual awakening?
Because I know that you had a spiritual outlook before, but
this seemed to be the moment. You're talking in my path.
It's almost like there's rounds like an upward Helix, you know,
more and more going over closer.And so the presence came back.
The Presence came back and and again in the night I sat up, it
(18:42):
was about 3:00 AM, sat up, just woke up suddenly and the sacred
opening of time and space. And it's numinous, it's
numinous, right? And the Presence, I could feel
the Presence coming. There's almost a rhythm as the
Presence comes and asks if you were pregnant, would you adopt?
And I said, I am so much closer,like I'm getting it.
(19:05):
But truthfully, if this instant I got pregnant, no.
But I could feel I was approaching someone ready to
inherent parenthood, which is unconditional love and
acceptance. And I was getting what
parenthood was. It's like, not my schnauz and my
husband's sense of humor. It is the deep.
Cool. Unconditional.
So this goes further, right and I get a call from another trail
(19:29):
Angel as I call them those who help as we meet synchronicities
guys on our. Emanations of of spirit.
And this is my older cousin. My name is Lisa Jane.
My big cousin is Jane. First name Jane.
I'm little Jane. She's big Jane.
It's always been that way. And she's sort of a guide who's
extremely frank with me, you know, told me unwanted things.
(19:52):
I didn't even want to know aboutmy family, you know, very frank
with me. And she calls and she says, you
know, hey, little cuz, I know you're having a struggle.
I know you're having a hard time.
And I'm wondering if you might come out here to a healing
ceremony of the Lakota. And I said, well, I'd love to
come, but I, you know, I have this appointment in Pittsburgh.
(20:15):
She's like, well, the healing ceremony is in three days.
And it worked out, Jock, that I went first to our appointment in
Pittsburgh, which was to meet with yes, yes, and then and then
to big James. So the appointment in
Pittsburgh. In this guided path.
Weren't you in the wrong place? That you were at the wrong place
at one point when you had to actually redirect?
(20:37):
Oh, you're good. Yes, Yes.
So we're in Pittsburgh and we'rewith a clergyman's daughter.
And there we are. Phillip and I sit at under
table. It is the clergyman's daughter
who was recommended by my mother.
You know, I have the information.
Goodbye. And this beautiful woman has
helped bring together probably 6, probably not 800 families.
(21:01):
And her walls are lined with photos of beautiful radiant
families, you know, a little baby and parents or children who
are adopted at 4:00 or 8:00 and their families and you know,
they're on bikes or they're camping or it's the holidays
and. Yeah.
And I'm like, yes, yes, I I was feeling like I was starting to
be in the right place. There was so much unconditional
(21:25):
love. I was feeling like, this is this
feels right. So she leans forward and she
says, you've got to be very honest with me.
So I've made hundreds of families, brought them together.
You've got to be honest. What do you want in a child, OK,
And the nuance of what do you want?
Can play either way. You know, it can sound a little
(21:45):
bit like trying to get pregnant.Like, you know, pick and cheese
and control. And I said, you know, I don't
care if this child is a boy or agirl.
I don't care what race this child is, but please, a child
who can love. And my husband leans forward and
kind of puts his shoulder in my space and says, yes, all that
(22:07):
but kind of a girl. And then there's good for
Nathan. Sort of do put my shoulder in
his face. And I say, but foremost a child
who can love. And with that, I went from there
to South Dakota to the call answer, the call of Big Jane.
And there I was with Big Jane and she said, I want you to know
(22:28):
that I've gotten permission fromthe head of the Lakota community
here in South Dakota that you might join us.
In a healing ceremony, I've donea lot of work with this tribe
and they, as a favor to me, havewelcomed you.
And so I go to the healing ceremony, right?
Right from Pittsburgh. And there I am.
It was the most extraordinary experience I've had.
(22:51):
Each person in the Lakota community stood up in front of
the entire community and spoke of why he or she had come.
And after each person told theirstory and no one's looking at
the clock, it could be two minutes, it could be 20 minutes,
it could be an hour. Everyone's listening.
When the person is done Speakingof their pain, the whole
(23:13):
community stands up, the drums start and lines up as each
person, as God's Spirit Wananichi moves their heart,
speaks into that to be that person to be healed their their
ear. And after this process, the men
go one way, the women go the other, and we're all going to
separate inepious sweat lodges. Sitting in the sweat lodge, all
(23:36):
women, led by the woman who called herself the medicine
man's wife. She welcomed us and she said,
tell us why you've come to each woman as the sweat lodge starts
the NEP, the first woman says, I've come because my son is 40
and he's no longer coming home, and I'm worried for those kids.
(23:57):
And everyone really listens. I mean at the level of
consciousness it has registered.And then the next woman speaks.
My son is 14 and he's starting to use drugs and alcohol.
I'm worried he'll be addicted. And everyone again listens and
says, uh huh, Taken in. We go around the circle and it
(24:18):
comes to Big Jane. And Big Jane, you know, I I'm a
professor. I speak for a living.
It felt so good to have Big Janespeak for me in this moment to
this is my cousin little Jane and Jack to this day she she's
(24:38):
come looking for her child and they all look and they get it
and they go, uh huh. And Big Jane says.
I wonder if we can help her findher child sitting here in the
sweat lodge, the round sweat lodge.
And again, listen. Uh huh.
And then we go around, complete the circle and we start the
(24:58):
prayers and we pray. And at the end the fires put out
and we send up the prayers through the top of the Anepia.
And in my minds I I could see the same numinousness.
That's amazing. So that night, that very night,
a call came into my machine in New York.
(25:21):
I picked it up early the next morning.
To this day, I feel so grateful to God.
So grateful for the loving, infinite guidance of God.
The call comes in from Russia. We have found the Miller's
child. We have wonderful girls.
Mr. Miller had asked for a girl,and we can give you a girl but
(25:43):
this. Is the Miller's child, and this
is a son. We had been praying for sons,
and my son now, of course, is called Isaiah for one world,
Lakota, Lakota, for the people who helped us find our child.
(26:03):
It was a extraordinary blessing.So I go home.
I can't wait to see this video of my my son, my spiritual son.
And soon the video comes. And here's this radiant It's an
Angel come to earth, You know. He's up there in an orphanage in
northern Russia. Da da, da.
So full of life. His arm around the nurse, he he
glows. He literally glows.
(26:27):
And that night, after I've seen Isaiah, I've seen our boy, I
feel the presence coming the third time.
And I know now, of course, and it's coming closer and sacred.
Rhythm of approach and the numinous opening in the night.
And the president says, and I I know, but they might, I feel, I
(26:50):
may know what they're going to ask.
If you were pregnant now, would you adopt?
Absolutely. This is my spiritual son.
And that night we conceived naturally his sister kind of a
girl, his spiritual twin. That night, after five years of
(27:14):
all the best infertility doctors, this was not a
mechanistic control problem. This did not live in the
province of human control. This was about a sacred path.
This was a divine intervention. Yes.
And it exemplifies or not a human condition or spiritual
(27:35):
condition. Exemplifies who we are as
spirits having a human experience and not the other way
around. And how we can move in the world
at a foundationally primary, foremost spiritual level, that
it's through the gift and blessings of what I, who I call
trail angels, is sent by spirit,sent by God.
(27:57):
Emanations like rays from the sun.
Trail angels and synchronicity, sacred guidance.
We are loved and held. We are guided and we are never
alone, whether it's Big Jane or Mama Duck, I mean all of the
helpers inhalers along the way. So a spiritual path is a
foundationally spiritual way of being and seeing and perceiving,
(28:22):
knowing of the heart, knowing ofour deep inner spiritual
awareness. And it seemed to me that
depression was a call into an awakening.
That was my journey, that the utter bottom.
Of the barrel despair we felt. I mean, my husband was lying on
the ground with the bear. Our lives are hollow and
meaningless without children. That bottom of pain was the
(28:47):
invitation to pay attention to the loving, guiding universe.
That was the invitation to look and and hear.
And once we opened up to the orphan and the garbage dump as
showing us as being brought to us by God, by spirit, we lived
(29:07):
in a dialogue from then forward.A dialogue.
What do you show me now? Higher power?
What do you ask of me, God? What is a deeper, unconditional
love that would honor us to elevate us to parenthood?
Not that the kid comes home, butthat we are prepared to have
unconditional love. Then we're parents.
(29:31):
Yeah, and how how was was Steve?Was Phillip sorry?
Was he pretty spiritual beforehand, or did this also
have a dramatic impact on his awakening to a certain level?
Jock, That is such a magnificentquestion.
No one's ever asked me that before.
Phillip's mother. Is a very spiritual woman, and a
(29:54):
spiritually oriented psychologist as well, and she
practices as such in his whole childhood.
Was full of stories of a foundationally spiritual
reality. So he honors his mother and he
honors me in being voices of spiritual awareness.
He doesn't always see it himself, or he claims perhaps
(30:16):
not to always see it himself. And yet on the big ones.
He sure gets it and speaks up. So for instance, the orphan in
the garbage dump, it was Philip who said there's a child out
there for. Us.
I noticed that. I was going to say that because
it seemed that there was a synchronistic event that made
him awaken to that point. He awoken, he did awaken to that
(30:41):
point, and he he I think, is completely open to
synchronicity. And does see it, but counts on
sort of his mother, his wife as sort of the.
The gay. Voice in the family to on a
daily basis, but it's a beautiful question Jacques,
because he is open bottom line. That that is ultimate truth.
(31:03):
That is the hard data. That is the bedrock on which we
make a choice. I think there's a there's a
contrast to him because you say he's a he's a lawyer and I've
dealt with, I actually own helplawyer.com, so I've dealt
with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lawyers in my time
and what I find is that the. They try to grasp to a spiritual
(31:24):
concept, but they can't because they don't understand the
difference between divine law and man's law.
They can't equate divine law to man's law.
And so they've caught up in man's law because that's what
they know. And yet there's this pool,
there's this pool to try and getthem in there and it causes
conflict. So I would say that Philip
(31:44):
indeed does perceive the difference between.
The axioms of our sacred universe and the rules made by
man, I think he he does see the difference.
But I but I think the point you're raising about our society
is extremely important that you know I'll start at home.
The pain I felt for five years searching for my child was
(32:10):
because I was looking among the things made by humans.
In vitro fertilizations, higher rates of you know, conception.
And it was only when I fully it's not just surrendered,
leaned forward, trusted, and walked the path of divine
guidance that that's. When it came, well.
(32:34):
First of all that that the family came.
But this it's not. This is not only a story of the
family arriving, it's a it's a story of a spiritual path, I
think perhaps there for all of us.
Through which we awaken where wemove from the things that we
count on made by humans that don't show up.
And certainly in COVID that was clear.
Our institutions, you know, the hospital's full up.
(32:55):
Your employer closed. You know the things by by humans
to opening to the deep buoyant guidance that we're loved and
held, guided and never alone of.God, Spirit, the universe, that
100%. I don't mean half and half or 90
percent, 100% full trust that I'm going to have my front heel
(33:17):
strike on the divine path. That's a choice.
And it came to me very, very clear that that is the only path
that we are designed to walk thespiritual path.
You. Know it's almost.
Many years ago when I sat in circle, obviously someone deadly
departed. So I can talk about this thing
(33:39):
and I do deep trance work and I remember one of the statements
that I've lived by ever since that that came through when when
we were in circle was from my own spirit team, my own guide
who said the truth is the truth no matter what.
It is merely the perception of truth that is manipulated by
man. But divine truth will never
(34:01):
change. It is constant.
Well, I think we're built. And having walked that path and
made a choice, you know, at the fork in the road, the rest of my
life I will do everything I can to walk the sacred path, the
spiritual path. I could at times, you know, get
(34:21):
distracted or make mistakes. But my, my, my mission is to
walk the spiritual path. I then said as a scientist, to
work. To help through the lens of
science, bear witness to this this awesome truth that I knew
through my deep intuitive knowing, through my mystical
perception, through what we now know is our birthright for
(34:45):
spiritual awareness, I set to show that to the medical
community, the mental health community.
Because the language at the moment of the mental health
community was one of clinical science.
And if we could show the centrality and transformative
power of spiritual awareness, what I call awakened awareness,
(35:06):
if we could reveal the awakened brain, then perhaps mental
health could embrace this deep foundational truth.
Of whoever is humans. Lisa, what gave you the idea to
look? Because I love the aspect that
you dive into the neuroscience as well, and I'm forever arguing
with scientists on the brain andthe mind.
(35:28):
So what gave you this, this inkling that, wait a minute,
there's got to be a concept in our biological makeup, in the
brain that is set for spiritual awakening and spiritual
realization? And and as you suggested, it's a
very beautiful point and it's a subtle point that I'm not saying
(35:49):
the brain makes spirituality right, but I'm saying that the
brain is perhaps a docking station or an antenna or an
expression of. That's what I say, yeah, yeah.
The brain is an expression of divine mind, or mind as the mind
being the psychological buildingblocks of our reality.
Beautiful. And that is for neuroscience,
(36:11):
hopefully, where we are in our growth, that in the 20th
century, the metaphor of the brain was like a factory making
packages of something, that the brain packages up thoughts.
But increasingly in the 21st century, we're starting to
understand consciousness. And here we're talking about
sacred consciousness, Not just information, but love, guidance
(36:34):
and intention. Sacred and from coming from
source. The same what I call God.
So here we are starting to understand consciousness as
existing independent of matter, which means that the brain can
be a reification of coming into form, an antenna of sacred
consciousness. And what we have in our MRI
(36:56):
machines is the capacity to showwhich part of the brains go hand
in hand with receiving consciousness.
Right. Which parts of the brain are
engaged during moments of deep spiritual awareness and to a
mental health field? That's very powerful evidence
(37:16):
that we are built for spiritual awareness.
And we take that and we say, listen, every human being on
earth is built as an innately spiritual being.
An innately spiritual being. I think it's amazing.
I think that's amazing because it also brings to to the
(37:37):
forefront of our minds or the forefront of reality that with
that being the truth or with that being reality, that we have
the power to be able to reverse what it has, what maybe has came
in unbalanced. You know where?
(37:57):
And maybe that's somewhere wherewe need to go even deeper,
especially in mental health, because I see it as an
imbalance, as something that we need to bring into balance.
And so we have that power withinus and but most people don't
realize that. And it's all of ours.
As you say, it's all of us, right?
So it's well, I'll share with you a few points of science that
(38:21):
I think really have helped change mental health the 1st.
Is that science has a tool. What?
You know, science has always hada perfectly good lens for
looking at innate spirituality. But we didn't use it.
We didn't use it. And that was not a limitation of
our lens. We can point our lens at a broad
host of questions, whether it's an MRI study or an
(38:43):
epidemiological study or a telescope.
We can point it anywhere. But the limitation in the 20th
century was in us, the scientists we.
The scientists, now that we havestarted asking questions about
spirituality in the human journey and the road of life,
the findings I take to be a formof sacred witness.
(39:05):
It is jaw-dropping Jock. It is, I mean it is it it it's
like when we split the atom and infinite energy came out.
A sacred moment like that, you know?
So what do we know Okay? Well, for when we use the twin
study method, twin throws together, twin throws, depart
factor out genes, environment. We can know, you know, anything
(39:30):
about the extent to which a human capacity is inborn or
environmentally shaped. So temperament, if we're
outgoing, introverted, high strung, laid back, that's half
inborn half environmentally formed.
So if a baby. Wakes up in the night and is
anxious. We can soothe the baby if we
find ourselves a little uncomfortable in social
situations. We can change our inner
(39:51):
environment through meditation or other ways of using our inner
life well. The capacity through which we
perceive into the spiritual reality.
Our awakened brain is 1/3 innate.
It is a human inborn capacity, but it is 2/3 environmentally
formed, which means. Opportunity to engage, to
(40:14):
practice, to learn. And you know I liken it in some
respects to musical ability. There's we all can feel the deep
rhythm we all have an innate musical ability we can all enjoy
maybe moving a little to a we all are innately rhythmic if you
will. And then there's natural human
variability. And and honoring your audience
(40:35):
here, there's probably, you knowa great number of people who are
exquisitely attuned. Who are the maestros and the
composers and the the professional musicians, if you
want. And those folks are, you know,
representative of human variability.
We have one spiritual brain all around the world, but there's
natural variability, some as there's with music or math or
(40:58):
anything else. And of course, 2/3
environmentally formed means that our use of this gift of our
awakened brain to practice, whether it's through prayer and
meditation, whether it's throughservice.
And service in a way that's guided by spirit.
The more we use our awakened brain, the stronger it becomes,
(41:20):
and that includes sacred work. So I I honor every human being
as a spiritual being. And to the extent that we choose
to engage the spiritual path, westrengthen ever more this this
birthright. Do you think you know one of one
of the things that I want to jump was you've mentioned choice
(41:41):
a number of times, which is probably one of the greatest
divine gifts that we've ever been given.
It's beautiful. Oh, Chuck, what a way to think
of it. Yes.
Absolutely. The power of choice that we are
given by the Divine is up to us.We can, we can.
And I I have this concept when Isay we we have restricted free
will because we don't have totalfree will.
Because if we had total free will then destiny wouldn't play
(42:02):
a part in it and we wouldn't have spiritual growth.
We wouldn't learn anything. But I I feel that the power of
choice that we have it's a dialogue and it probably becomes
stronger with. Struggle and trauma.
And which leads us to becoming more aware of the power of
(42:23):
choice that we have to take a spiritual path where we may then
fall away from a religious dogmatic belief system and then
start to, you know, investigate.Wait a minute, we are greater
than the sum total of anything that we are, and we are greater
than the perceptions and the expectations of religion.
(42:44):
Where is the seat? The seed of awareness in us has
taken us to a new level, where we're maybe jumping between
knowledge and wisdom. Wisdom being the hidden bridge
and knowledge being the intellect.
So I I so agree with you that choice is a sacred gift.
And I sometimes think of choice,you know, in these moments where
we know it is a profound moment of choice.
(43:07):
I mean, sometimes it can be, youknow, clear and outward, but
sometimes it's something more nuanced that we know through
our. Knowing heart, our intuition,
our mystical awareness, I think of those moments of choice as
something of a wormhole between universes, that everything
unfolds differently from that point.
That's not to say we can't be redeemed.
(43:27):
We can, as we can always be redeemed and forgiven.
Have another wormhole perhaps, if it's given.
But choice is a sacred moment, and I think of it indeed as a
dialogue with. The sacred universe.
What are you showing me now? What do you ask of me now?
I've worked for four years. Interestingly, Jock, the
Pentagon has and I have worked together for three 3 1/2 close
(43:48):
to four years. And the chief of chaplains in
the Pentagon, two star general Chaplain Tom Souljam speaks of
divine appointment. He talks about moments where
there's two helicopters taking off and there's just been combat
and where does he go? And he feels in his spiritual
heart go left, even though you know the plan was to go right.
(44:11):
And the plan until that moment had been to board the helicopter
on the right, the heart says go left.
So he goes left and he gets on the helicopter and it takes off
and there's three wounded soldiers and chaplain soldier
tells the story of. Being able to pray and be in
deep spiritual community with these three soldiers, deep
spiritual bond and jock. All three of them survived.
(44:34):
Wow, that's powerful intuition right there.
And I love his term divine appointment that when we listen
to the pull of God of Spirit saying go left this time, that's
a divine appointment and sure enough who should come around
the corner but and there's an opportunity for helping.
For healing. For being a trail Angel.
(44:56):
You know, it's amazing. When I wrote my first book, when
I wrote Powers of The Sixth Sense, I wrote it after 911 to
show it's called How to Remain Safe in a Hostile World.
And that's exactly what I talk about, about these the divine
nuances, how to discern the difference between the ego mind
and to discern the intuit of thedivine mind.
(45:19):
To be able to, and I intervieweda lot of soldiers as well-being
a soldier myself, I kind of, I understood it.
How we can utilize that power orthat sacred power that we have
within us to remain safe in a potentially hostile situation.
And it is a deeper form of knowing.
Yeah. And you know, it's interesting.
(45:41):
I love how you say knowing because that's something I
espouse all the time. I've been on many radio shows
and they've said, you know, do you believe in the afterlife?
And I said no. I actually don't believe in
anything, because if I believe in something, I means I'm, I'm
open. I have room for interpretation
and I don't want to believe in anybody's perceptions or
expectations. I want to come to knowing
(46:01):
because no one is divine. No one means that is there is no
interpretation. It comes from a divine source
and it's connected, interconnected to me.
So I I love the fact that you talk about knowing.
And you know I, I, I think you're raising a point as well
that oftentimes spirituality is spoken of as a belief through
(46:22):
the lens of clinical science. Spirituality is an innate seat.
It is a neuro seat of perception.
So we are built and to quite specifically be able to perceive
the transcendent, the loving, guiding, transcendent and
perceive. That presence, that sacred
(46:44):
presence in our love for one another as fellow human beings,
transcendence and eminence. We are built with a neuro
docking station to perceive transcendence and eminence, who
we really are to each other and fellow living beings.
Like Mother Duck, of course. So we are all in this sacred
dialogue and the more that we not just pay attention, but
(47:07):
contribute. Thank you, Mother Duck, and help
her someday. The more that we're part of,
that's prayer and action. In my point of view, then we are
participating in this divine orchestra.
Yeah, I always, I always teach students that the same and we
spoke about this yesterday and Ithink it exemplifies beautifully
(47:28):
what you're saying as the the same animate and force that
animates the duck animates as. It means that, you know, Lisa
Miller was the duck and the duckwas Lisa Miller.
There was no separation. There was more connection than
there was disconnection. And I think when humanity comes
to understand that, maybe we cantranscend this idea of humanity
(47:49):
and start to realize that we areactually interconnected more
than we even imagine, And that every thought and every action
and every prayer has its own internal power to be able to
transform and change. And just as who I call God,
Spirit, Source, universal for usis loving, holding and guiding,
(48:11):
and never leaves us alone, we through this great presence can
show up for one another to be loving, holding and guiding, so
that no one is ever left alone. We can be instruments of divine
expression. You know, you've you've had
amazing, you've had amazing experience.
There's a lot of people out there at least that don't have,
(48:33):
that have probably missed the experiences.
It may even be right in front oftheir face, but they miss it.
As a scientist you have experienced the lows and the
highs and the spiritual awakening.
What would you say to people outthere that are that are
struggling now? With maybe where they are in the
(48:55):
world, or the fact that they don't feel held and loved, what
what could you awaken in them? That that feeling of emptiness
and doubt and total alienation, that darkness is actually the
start. It's the ignition or the
spiritual path. It is the pounding at the door
(49:18):
of an opening to awakening, and gently.
Very gently, I invite you to watch who comes and how they
come, whether it's dusting off arusty prayer or meditating or
talking to fellow living beings in nature rejoining, rejoining
(49:39):
the Kingdom. I I don't think that Eden is
some place in the past. I think Eden is when we join in
the Symphony of all life. Ah, that's brilliant.
That. That is brilliant.
I love that. That's that's actually probably
going to be one of the clips that we take from here to
promote this, to promote the episode.
I think that's beautiful and howyou say?
(50:00):
That right there inviting you in?
Yeah, and and and you know, people miss it because they're.
I tend to think people don't look with their spiritual eyes.
They're too busy looking. I I have a saying they say don't
look with the eyes of the merchant.
Look with the eyes of the spirit, because that's the way
we think. Lisa, I've, you know, we're
coming up to nearly an hour. I've.
(50:21):
I've loved having you. I really, really enjoyed having
you on here. And I want you to come back on
because I think there's a lot more that we can unpack.
I hope you will. Wonderful, I, I said.
Why? To share the past?
I I love. I think there's a lot that
people can learn from this and for you guys that are out there
that are also on the a grief path.
You'll get you'll catch myself and Lisa going into another
(50:45):
deeper subject on Pillars of Grief, which is my other
podcast. But remember, from what you
listen in here, there's a great deal of hidden lessons in this.
Like, the paranormal is actuallyso normal because it is.
We're all connected and we all only exist because the divine
spirit runs through us. And when we recognize that, then
(51:08):
you know. The expression of the the the
the you know, the brain being the expression in the mind.
Understand that you have the power to transform your your
depression. You have the power to transform
your sadness. You have the power to transform
every aspect of your life. And if one thing you can learn,
I just want to bring up the bookagain.
(51:28):
Guys, you got to buy this book. I told you I bought it on
Audible, Kindle and an hardback.There's a lot of lessons in
this. I've I've read, read many, many
books in my life. And there's very few that I
really, really love. And this is one that I really
love, because it exemplifies notonly science, but it exemplifies
what we're trying to do and whatwe've been trying to do for so
(51:49):
many years. To bring spirit and science
together and show that there is actually a relationship, just as
that is in divine law, and that none of them are different.
We're actually so much more the same.
Josh Thank you for sharing in the Awakened Brain.
It is a joy to share this with you and your community.
I love it and and I I can't waitto have you back on.
(52:10):
And do you want to just say final thoughts to people out
there? Tell us what you're planning
next or what you've got on the cards.
I wish you so much joy and discovery.
The spiritual path can hurt at times, but it's always an
invitation to a deeper understanding of how very much
we are loved and held, and that you are never, ever, ever alone.
(52:31):
And so I'd say thank you for this gift of being with you, and
May God bless you. Loved it.
Thank you. Loved it.
And just remember, guys, that your trauma is the gateway to
your awakening. God bless.
Thank you for joining us on Deadly Departed.
Hi there, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much.
If you have purchased Deadly Departed, it means a lot to me.
(52:54):
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting my work.
And if you haven't bought DeadlyDeparted yet, then consider
buying Deadly Departed. You can get it on Amazon or you
can get it in any bookstore and you can show proof of purchase
and join my closed group. You can also reach out to me on
Instagram at anytime at Spiritual Medium if you have a
question and I will answer that.Have a wonderful day, ladies and
(53:16):
gentlemen and thank you once again.
God Bless. You've been listening to Deadly
Departed with renowned evidential, medium and author
Jock Broca's. If you like what you've heard,
make sure to pick up a copy of The Deadly Departed book.
Don't forget to share the episodes and send in your
questions to us about anything paranormal and the afterlife.
(53:39):
TuneIn Next time to Deadly Departed, the Do's don'ts and
dangers of afterlife communication.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.