The Science Behind Hauntings Separating Fact From Paranormal Fiction - Part 1

Welcome to Deadly Departed, where the mysterious world of hauntings and the supernatural is put under the microscope. In this episode, "DD - Part 1 - Hauntings And More," host Jock Brocas and co-host Craig dive deep into the world of haunted houses, unexplained phenomena, and the myths that surround paranormal activity.

Together, Jock and Craig tackle the reality behind famous hauntings, question the validity of "ghost detectors," and expose why nine times out of ten, reported hauntings may have more to do with natural explanations than the paranormal. They discuss the critical role of personal belief, the mind's power to shape reality, and how houses themselves—with their creaks, smells, and hidden quirks—can startle even the most rational homeowner.

Drawing on Craig's background as both a building contractor and science editor, and Jock's extensive experience in hauntings and parapsychology, the duo breaks down what truly constitutes a haunting. Is it genuine supernatural activity, or do we sometimes haunt ourselves through expectation, suggestion, mental health, or even medications?

From notorious cases like the Enfield Poltergeist and Amityville to the everyday noises of an aging home, this episode guides listeners through subjective and objective phenomena, the pitfalls of media hype, and the sheer complexity of separating fact from fiction in the ghostly world of hauntings.

Prepare yourself for a thrilling, skeptical, and refreshingly honest exploration of what’s really going bump in the night—plus a preview of future episodes that will delve further into mental health, poltergeist phenomena, and more. If you’ve ever wondered if your house is haunted or just want to separate spooky myths from science, this is the episode for you.

Tune in as Deadly Departed begins its haunting series—myth-busting included!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And whilst there's, there's loads of information out there
about hauntings and even famous hauntings, but nine times out of
10, you know, most of these things, there's, there's nothing
really there we're looking at, you know, we're looking at
subjective evidence in people's mental health as well.
And that's kind of some of the things that we want to cover.
Welcome to the Deadly Departed broadcast, where the veil

(00:22):
between the living and the dead is just a whisper away.
I'm Joe and along with my colleagues in Paranormal Daily
News, we will be your guides through the shadowy realms of
the paranormal and the unexplained.
In each episode, we will dive into the eerie and the enigmatic
with the help of today's leadingexperts in parapsychology,
science and the supernatural. Prepared to uncover the secrets

(00:43):
of luck in the dark and explore the mysteries that defy
explanation. Let's embark on this journey.
No. Good morning.
Good afternoon. Good evening, ladies and
gentlemen. This is Jock here.
This is deadly departed. I'm here with my my colleague,
my brother in arms. Craig, Science editor, Weiler of

(01:06):
PDS. Craig, how you doing?
Oh, I'm, I'm doing great, Jock. It's, it's still morning here in
California. I know it's afternoon for you.
So we're quite a ways apart here.
And yeah, I'm fresh and ready togo.
Let's get into. It we were, we were, we were
going to do it. We were going to do another

(01:26):
episode before, we were going todo something before.
But I decided that I didn't haveit.
If you see, ladies and gentlemen, if you're listening
on the podcast, you're not goingto see it, but you're watching
YouTube. I've got a nice shot high and
tight haircut. Now, if I'd have done this
episode the other day, I was complaining to my wife because I
felt I was like a cockatoo wheremy one bit of my crown was
sticking up like a mad Hatter. It wouldn't it wouldn't have

(01:49):
gone down well. But know that we are refreshed
or shaved ready. I'm ready to talk about.
And anyway, So what are we talking about, Craig?
We're talking about, oh, we're going.
To yeah, we're going to deal with the hauntings today.
We're going to look at several different aspects of it.
So I'm bringing in expertise as a general building contractor.

(02:12):
So I know houses as well as anybody out there.
And Jacques has experience in, in haunting.
And so we, you know, between thetwo of us, I think we have a lot
to discuss here. Absolutely.
And I think, you know, one of the things that we want to cover
as well as is maybe some of the myths and that most times people
actually haunt themselves. And whilst there's, there's

(02:34):
loads of information out there about hauntings and even famous
hauntings, but nine times out of10, you know, most of these
things, there's, there's nothingreally there we're looking at,
you know, we're looking at subjective evidence and people's
mental health as well. And that's kind of some of the
things that we want to cover. And also one of the things that

(02:55):
I want to cover, Craig, that people hate me for saying this
as well. But Lloyd Orbach is a proponent
in this too. Is there is no such thing as a
ghost detector or a ghost app really that I actually detect
ghosts. So we're this is one of the
myths that I want to bust. There's nothing out there that
can detect a spirit or detect a ghost.

(03:16):
I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen,if that is really what you
wanted to hear. No.
So we're going to jump into thatas well.
So Craig, let me talk about, let's talk about maybe
hauntings. The, the, is there any hauntings
on US? Has there been any big hauntings
on your your way? I don't normally get into

(03:40):
hauntings myself. I'm in and out of a lot of
people's homes and generally I can get a feel for the space.
I was in a large mansion nearby for several months and I feel
what? Did it feel haunted?
No, it didn't feel haunted, but I could feel the presence of the

(04:00):
previous occupants. They were some rather well known
people and the, the family life I knew to be a bit in turmoil
and you could feel that in the house.
The, you know, just the general energy of the place was
uncomfortable. And part of my work was taking

(04:24):
all the uncomfortable stuff out and throwing it away, literally.
So let's look, there's a lot of hauntings, there's a lot of
famous hauntings. There's, there's the hauntings
in Connecticut. We've got hauntings of places,
we've got hauntings of people and we've got haunting
hauntings, hauntings trying to in that one Scottish acts of

(04:45):
things, right? Everything that that we know
about at some point someone has said is haunted.
We've got one of the, one of the, the, the, you know,
greatest probably examples of hauntings is the Enfield
poltergeist, which we can talk about poltergeist in a little
bit, but Enfield case in, in London.
We've also got cases in Connecticut.

(05:06):
We've got the case that I covered, which is in PDN in
Pennsylvania. And then we've got demonic cases
that have sprouted up everywhere.
We've got a case in Gary, IN which was supposed to be a
demonic content where. And here's the thing that we
notice about these there's there's either real objective

(05:27):
phenomena that happens in a haunt.
And what I mean by that, ladies and gentlemen, is that the
phenomena is out with, I don't want to say out with science,
but it can be experienced outside of the human persona,
outside the human form. You can see it with your, your
own eyes. You can experience it with your,
your senses, you're hearing. And then of course you've got

(05:49):
that subjective phenomena, whichis internal.
You know, you, you can have thatkind of clairvoyance or that
sense, that feeling inside of you.
But there's very few cases that exist in the world where there's
been serious objective type phenomena.
There's been cases of poltergeist cases where that has
been objective phenomena. And the reality is, is that when

(06:12):
it's subjective, we need something that we can measure.
I mean, one of the big cases that we all know about that, you
know, Ed and Larry and Warren probably launched themselves,
was the Amityville case. And then of course, you have the
conjurant cases, but there's less, less unknown cases as
well. There's actually one that's
recent here. No recent, well, maybe recent

(06:33):
and early 2000s. And there's a ghost cat that
just came behind you. We've got cases here in North
Carolina. There's, there's haunting cases
everywhere. And they, they're, the stories
are remarkable. There's historical basis to a
lot of these things. But what exactly is a haunting?

(06:56):
What really is a haunting? What?
What is a haunting to you? Well, you know, when you're
talking about hauntings, there are, you know, you're talking
about evidence, right? And so there is evidence that's
personally convincing and there's evidence that is
objectively convincing. But like you were saying, you
know, something that somebody experiences versus something

(07:17):
that somebody can measure. And these are two different
things. So, so when I say, when you say
haunting, I think it can be either a subjective experience
or an objective 1. I think both are valid in their
own ways because we don't reallyknow what people actually
experience. We can't get inside their minds
and see it in their own eyes. So, you know, it's about a

(07:41):
person's credibility at that point.
And that's sometimes very hard to judge.
So, you know, is a lot of this wishful thinking Probably you
know, it's it's sexy in its own way to to have a haunting.
It is and, and there's a lot of there's a lot to be said for in
the public eye and, and, and certainly there's a lot to be

(08:03):
said for in the media where the the media portrays hauntings is
this massively scary, this scarything.
And you know, it's always here'sthe thing.
And I remember people think hauntings of this, this that you
mentioned the mansion is you have this idea of this, the
scary looking house and it's dark and it always happens at

(08:26):
night. And I, I often laugh because I
think why, why do people have togo and visit at night when
literally phenomena can happen at anytime of the day.
And a haunting doesn't necessarily just happen at
night. I think the reality is, is that
we maybe we perceive things a lot easier at night because
there's less noise, there's lessenvironmental information coming

(08:50):
from all over that. That's the time when it's quiet.
I don't necessarily think that any haunting particularly
happens in the evening or at night.
And people need to understand aswell that for the most part, a
lot of hauntings that are investigated, there's a
scientific basis for them. And not everything is actually

(09:13):
preternatural or supernatural. It's not always a demon and it's
not always a grounded spirit. No.
And there's also a big case for what people perceive and think
is a horn. And this really has got a
natural, a natural explanation to it.
So I, I, you know, so let me jump into this because I think a

(09:34):
lot of things that happen in your, in the construction field
can often make things seem like they're haunted and people pick
this up. Well, absolutely.
The, you know, a lot of first ofall, houses are a little bit on
the noisy side and you don't really pick this up unless

(09:56):
you're actually listening for itin.
There are lots of reasons for this.
You can have pipes under the house banging as soon as you
turn on the water. It's usually a fairly easy sound
to discern. But if you have no idea what
that is and you have things happening outside of your home
that can cause it, you know, youhave no way of knowing.

(10:19):
But for example, if somebody's working on the water down the
street, you know, a utility company, you might get noises
from that inside your house and not even know it because they're
nowhere near you. They're on another St. someplace
else. So this can create something
inside your house. There's also, you know, small
animals, but generally people know what those sound like.

(10:42):
And people expect rats and they expect squirrels.
Even the occasional raccoon can get into a home.
So people generally expect that.So they don't really attribute
that to supernatural things. But you know, some of the other
things like a house can just do a knock, just a, just a, a large

(11:04):
pop for no reason. And, and you don't really know
why or when it occurs because it's completely random.
Usually though, these are thingsare attributable to temperature
changes and it's just kind of a nail pop where the wood expands,
it pops, it shrinks, the nail goes back in, it expands, it
pops again. And so you have this like

(11:24):
recurring thing that only occursduring temperature changes which
you're not even aware of so. And you know it.
It mains me of the, the, the, the possibility that people
don't realize that houses get old just as we all get old.
And with that, that means that your, your house is going to
degenerate and there's going to be in for you, there's going to

(11:46):
be movement. And so really, when, when we
experience a haunt and like a, we mentioned the beginning,
you're experiencing something that's subjective or subjective,
You're experiencing what you canhear, see and feel.
And, and everything that we do is obviously internal.
So when something happens in theexternal environment that you're
not used to and you start to even get potential.

(12:10):
So let me explain this. You can have, and I've been a
case where they thought there was a demon involved and they
could have, they could smell putrid odors and putrid smells
and they were thinking, wait a minute, there's something not
here. And most of the time when people
are calling out for hauntings, they have an interest in the

(12:32):
paranormal or they have an interest.
The first thing that I'm doing if, if, if I go in anywhere, I
got called it anywhere, as I find out is what is their, what
is their motivation, right? What is the motivation behind
this? Because nine times out of 10,
you find that they've got an interest.
I'm more interested in somebody who's skeptical.
I went to a case in Scotland where they were totally
skeptical, but the phenomena they were experiencing was just

(12:55):
beyond any kind of scientific explanation.
So that's more interesting because you don't have a belief
there. But a lot of cases people have a
belief. And if they're watching, and
what I'm getting at is if they're watching a show on, and
this is where the media comes in, they're watching a show and
they talk about part of the the signature, the sign of maybe

(13:16):
having a demonic and infestationwould be smelling A putrid
smell. Immediately they connect that
and they think that there's something there and then if
they've got something going wrong in their life, they
attribute that to the haunting. Before you know it, they've
haunted themselves. But the reality is, is maybe
there's a dead animal has got into the building has rotted and

(13:37):
and that's what you're smelling.Or alternatively, you can have
material that is outside that that is creating some kind of
order could be some kind of chemical reaction or something.
And all of all of a sudden that's, that's that's what they
attribute. They don't know what it is.
They just they've got an interest.
And so they think the noise thatthey hear, the smell that they

(14:00):
smell, or even this feelings of drafts and cold temperatures
dropping, they attribute them toa haunting because they often
want the haunting. They often are more inclined to
believe it because they already have and they already have a an

(14:20):
interest in the field. And so most hauntings that that
you investigate in this day and age has got a scientific basis.
And as Craig's saying, and in his game in the in the
construction industry, a lot of these phenomena that is similar
to what a haunting experience would be really is maybe

(14:43):
something to do with just the local environment smell and the
smells. And I think belief and belief is
a massive, plays a massive role when you think.
Well, yeah, I mean, if I'm, if I'm having, if I'm picking up a
rotting smell inside of a house,there's a, it's probably a sewer
smell, which is a very, very particular type of smell.

(15:05):
And that can be caused by some different factors.
The most common one I've run into is somebody has not run a
sink in a year or so, so the water has been sitting in the
trap for a long time, dried out and allowed the sewer gases to
get inside the house. It's a really simple thing.
And then the the smell just sortof drift around and you can't

(15:27):
really pinpoint it. But if you start walking around
and turning on the water and then turning it off again, you
fill up those traps and the smell goes away.
Another way this can happen is if you have an old sewer line
that breaks underneath and then you also have a an air
conditioning or heating system where you have the vents

(15:48):
underneath the house. If those are also broken, then
as soon as you turn on the system you are blowing the sewer
smell from underside the house right into your home.
You'll have no way you no idea where this is coming from.
These things are possible and they have to be considered as
ordinary, ordinary causes and you can usually tell because the

(16:10):
sewer smell is is very particular that's it's unlike
anything else. You know, it's interest.
I went to one case once where they, they said that they had
experienced the building, the, the, the bed moving, the, the
floors, the building shaking. And they had immediately
thought, you know, this, this was demonic, this was a

(16:32):
haunting. When you investigated it and you
actually looked at the, the, thegeological, you know, what
happened in the area, it turned out that there was a seismic,
some very small seismic shift inthe, the Geo and the, the rocks
or whatever they call it geologyor whatever.

(16:52):
That's what created it. Because it's always important
that you have to look for a scientific explanation for what
someone thinks is a haunting. And also what I want to kind of
understand, I know this is kind of, we're being kind of
skeptical about hauntings and we'll get on in what makes a
real haunting later. But let's just bust all these

(17:16):
myths and everything just now because here's the other thing.
Most people will haunt themselves and it could be by
their nutrition, by the drugs that that may be taken.
The, the there's well known pharmaceuticals out there that
people use for inflammation thatthat create psychotic episodes.

(17:39):
Some drugs, you know, make you forget what you're doing.
And so before you know it, you think you're haunted or you
think that something's going on.And also people, you got to
remember that some products thatyou take can make your think
differently and, and so becomes the, the essentially what you're

(18:01):
putting into your body can also create that point.
And this before we get into evenhaunting, you know, going to any
mental health problems, but thisis one of the other things that
you have to look at is what is your not only your medical back,
you know, what is your medical history, but what have you been
taking recently? And that even goes for some
holistic, natural products that do have an effect on you.

(18:26):
Do they take CBD? Do you take anything?
Are you taking, you know, wacky backy and having a little smoke
before you know it, things, things like this could.
So there's a lot of myths to do with hauntings. 99% of what
people claim as a haunting is really has a natural
explanation. And especially, of course, you

(18:49):
understand that there's energy that surrounds us all the time.
And some of the things that you see energetic could be lights
that are created could be from magnetic forces, from other
combined forces and environment that create, you know, some kind

(19:11):
of phenomena. And that also has to have an
explanation. And obviously what most people
see, it's a big thing for me, Craig, as well as is pareidolia.
Most people that see something, they create something in their
mind from it and then immediately think it's, it's
demonic. I remember when 911 happened,

(19:31):
there was a an image, the photo that went around that said that
the devil or demon was shaped inthe smoke.
And the reality was is that was pareidolia.
There was no evidence for it. There has to be evidence.
There has to be a pattern of empirical evidence, objective

(19:52):
and subjective. I believe personally some
objective and subjective that maybe goes into showing that
there's something that's worth investigating.
But most hauntings are really have got an explanation.
Unless you're looking at, you know, cases from the past where
there has been really objective phenomena.

(20:13):
So most people, I think, haunt themselves.
OK, first of all, would you excuse me for just a second?
I have a cat that needs to leavethe room.
I'm about that. Cat's gone, Craig.
Is it? The cat is gone now, kicked him
out of the room So what I want to.
Wound everybody up and said thatwas that was a spirit that was

(20:35):
knocking the Craig's. Craig's office is haunted.
Yes, yes, it's haunted by a white cat, an Angel in disguise.
Who knows? Anyway, yeah, what I wanted to
talk about here was one of the things about drugs is you have
to know what sort of interactionthe drug is having, because
there are drugs that suppress the part of the brain that is

(20:59):
the normal logical part. And when you do that, you are,
you are not necessarily open your opening yourself up to a
hallucination, but you simply opened up the part of your mind
that is liminal and can be receptive to this stuff.
So you would have to know what the medicine is doing before you
can make any of these judgments,because sometimes people can

(21:21):
take something that opens them up to something that actually is
there. Of course we would have no way
of knowing unless there's critical details, but you know,
I think that has to be taken into consideration.
I, I know of, I know of cases where the, what's the, what is
the, there's a drug that people take when the university or

(21:42):
something like that and they're trying to keep awake and do you
know, remember that? Do you know the name of it?
Anybody out there who's ever been on this, if you're a
lawyer? I mean, I've I've connected with
lawyers that are feeding. Yeah, it's a.
Caffeine, but it's a it's a drugthat they take, right?
Yeah, someone like that. But I don't know if it's

(22:04):
ketamine. But no matter what, whoever's
listening out there, if you, I can't remember the name, that's
because I've had a haircut. It's probably gone out.
I can't remember the name, but Iknow people take it.
They want to keep awake. They want to keep a lap, right?
And it's like a caffeine, but it's a really strong dog.
Now. I know for a fact that I've been
in touch with people who have taken this and they start to see

(22:26):
things that are not there. So they actually start to have
visions. And what they think is a
clairvoyant vision or a hauntingvision is in fact the side
effects of what they're taking that drug that they're taking.
And so you have to be aware thatsome of these drugs will
actually make you experience things externally to you that

(22:53):
that may actually be the cause of that haunting.
I'm not going to psychosis or schizophrenia or anything like
that. Just know.
But some of these, some of thesedrugs will actually make you see
things that are not there and obviously give you that kind of
psychotic features borderline. And even if you had
psychedelics, I know people who have taken psychedelics that

(23:14):
initially then think they've hada bad experience and they think
they're haunted because they've come out of that psychedelic
experience and it didn't go well.
And then all of a sudden their mind is, is going OverDrive.
And they they think then becausethey've been in that experience
that they have been infested, they've been possessed or

(23:34):
something like that. And that's not normally the
case. It, it is a complicated issue.
And you know, one of the challenges of this is, is that
it tells us how the brain works,which is that we experience
reality internally. We are, you know, as we, as we
go through our lives and we dealwith the reality that's external

(23:57):
to us, we are creating it in ourminds as we go.
Now, when we touch something, we're getting feedback.
But also this has been in it. This isn't just feedback from
something physical. It's an interpretation of
signals that we're getting. The brain is constantly
interpreting this stuff. The mind is creating patterns

(24:17):
from these things and making sense of them and stabilizing
all of it to give us our worldview.
So when you talk about these haunting experiences and stuff,
they are in addition to what we're normally creating.
So we're creating our reality inour mind and it's in addition to

(24:40):
it. And even though it doesn't make
sense, it's really hard to say it's not real when we're we're
literally creating the rest of it out of our minds as well.
It's all coming from the same spot and we're so this, this
idea of something being imaginary is really just a

(25:01):
personal reality. So it all gets really, really
fuzzy in there. And it's important as well,
Craig, is that anybody who's certainly if, if, if I go out to
help with a potential case investigation and this tell me
what they're experiencing, I'm not going to say it's not true,

(25:22):
right? Because one that's not creating
any trust or anything. But of course, as you rightfully
say, what they're experience is subjective and it's internal to
them. So who are you to judge them?
You've just got to educate them and start to work through, OK,
potentially, could it be this? Could it be this, you know, what
do you want? You know, often bringing in a

(25:44):
psychologist, a psychiatrist, depending on what the case is.
It's important that you respect what the person is going
through, but at the same time understand that there is no real
evidence of anything that is untoward.
There's very few cases, very fewcases that have real phenomena

(26:08):
that can be measured that don't have a don't have an
explanation. I mean, there are a number of
cases, of course, that do have that, but most places that most
people that are, that are haunted, they're doing it
themselves. I'm a great believer in the most
people haunt themselves through their experiences or their

(26:29):
ignorance or of course, you know, reading, reading a book on
something that's mainly paranormal or covers these
hauntings or is in the TV. If you've got an interest and
then you're going to you're going to believe or you're going
to want to have this, this type of haunting.
So let's jump into a little bit of what really constitutes A

(26:55):
haunting. So science is all about what we
can measure and that's, that's the same, that's the same in any
potential haunting scenario is what we can measure.
And this, this kind of brings meinto this whole idea.
Now, as a, as a, an individual who's worked in the construction

(27:19):
game, you've utilized probably, you know, electromagnetic
meters, you've probably utilizedthermal cameras and all sorts of
your type of work. And this is the same stuff that
we've that we're labeling or people are labeling as ghost
detectors, haunted locations. And I want to and when we can't,

(27:44):
when we come to understand what a haunted location is or a
haunted person or a haunted home, it's a little bit
different to I think I maybe want to ask this anybody that is
a haunting is a battlefield. Haunted is, is, is where
something has happened. Does it mean that it's haunted?

(28:08):
Not necessarily in in my mind, you know, we have a phenomena,
residual energy plays itself. We were stone tape theory where
the the energy is imprinted intothe object and therefore the
energy of plays itself. And therefore is it haunted?
Because for me, a haunting wouldhave some kind of intelligence,

(28:30):
right? And maybe that's how we're
getting now. And, and maybe the idea of, of,
of Portuguese phenomena, there has to be some kind of
intelligence about it. So for me, more or less, if
there's no intelligence, it's more or less residual energy or
stone tape theory, something like that, like the the Battle
of Gettysburg, you know, big haunted battle battlefields,

(28:51):
even phenomena, energy phenomenathat's picked up in Scottish
battlefields. You know, Culloden, for
instance, that I went there and had a really unique experience
actually years and years ago. But is it haunted?
I probably back then I would have said yes because I was
naive to what really the scienceand everything else was after

(29:12):
it. Now is my journey has I would
say no, not necessarily. For me, a haunting has to have
some kind of intelligence, and Ithink that's important to
understand. Well, let's, let's talk about
this part for a moment because Ithink some of the evidence from
psychic experiments can shed some light here.

(29:32):
And what I, I think one of the most important things is, is
that over a number of years, both in Russian and in American
parapsychology, they were tryingto figure out if electromagnetic
waves of any sort at all were responsible for telepathy.
And what they found was that telepathy or remote viewing, all

(29:55):
this stuff worked regardless of any electromagnetic waves.
In other words, they played absolutely no part in the
ability of telepathy. So what you can derive from that
is that something else is going on that's not electromagnetic
waves, which gets back to you saying that, you know, when you
have these EFEMF meters and stuff where you're measuring,

(30:19):
where you're measuring differentthings like that in the room,
these don't tell you that you have a ghost because a ghost,
because telepathy doesn't have, isn't using electromagnetic
waves. Whatever is creating ghosts
isn't electromagnetic waves. It's something else.
There is the intelligence, as you say, consciousness, whatever

(30:41):
you want to call it, isn't necessarily measurable, but that
doesn't mean that we can't detect it with our minds.
Or it could be that it's, it's not it.
Well, it's not electromagnetic. It's still occurring in the
natural world, but in a way thatwe don't understand.

(31:02):
You know, that's important. I love that.
I love that idea because it is, it is to do, it has actually to
do with the mind. But what I would say is, well,
is that the, whilst we can't really identify any spiritual
presence by measuring these things, I think what's important
to say is that we, if we use those tools, we can create the

(31:26):
scenario where the atmosphere has changed.
Something has changed it, it warrants investigation, not that
it's a ghost or it's a spirit. And I think it's important that
you can, you can utilize these tools just to monitor the
atmosphere and to give you a, a key to I, I can go down this

(31:50):
route. I can investigate this more
because something has changed that we don't understand, I
don't think. And rightfully, as you say, we
really under the power of the mind is phenomenal.
And in telepathy we can't necessarily measure it unless
we're measuring the results fromit because we don't know how it
really happens. We don't, it's not from any

(32:10):
particular wave source, any particular energy that we can
label. It's this mind to mind
connection which is fascinating.Yeah, exactly.
And so when you when you take that and you look at hauntings
and stuff, what you're left withis something that is not
electromagnetic waves, that is leaving an impression behind the

(32:34):
people are picking up on, which is the stone Tape theory.
So when you have an area with very strong emotions, a physical
area with very strong emotions, I can understand the idea that
those emotions and the whole drama that played out there can

(32:55):
get into physical matter. And we know this.
We know that information like that can be stored in physical
matter because we have psychic abilities that involve grabbing
physical and a physical object and getting information from it
that normally. Psychometry.

(33:16):
Psychometry, yeah. That information that can't
normally be obtained. Right.
So psychometry has been basically demonstrated.
So what we're talking about hereis picking up on something that
normally you can't measure. And if perhaps someday we will
be able to measure it, but it won't be electromagnetic waves.

(33:40):
And you know this, this can be what hauntings are, that some
people can sense these since this stuff and other people have
it shut down, which also works with parapsychology theory that
most of our energy is devoted towards shutting stuff out.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so.

(34:02):
So that's an excellent reason why hauntings would affect one
person and not the other. It's just some people are better
at shutting it out than others. Some people, yeah, some people
are more susceptible to it. And I think I I get more than I
get more interested when there'smore than one person that is
actually sensing the same phenomena or witnessing the same

(34:25):
phenomena. Because there are times when,
here's the thing, and and I've had this this discussion a few
times, they'll say, well, you can go into a potential Porter
Geist case and things will be thrown around the room or the
objects will move. The psych sort of some kind of
psychokinetic energy will move. And I understand that we can
turn around and say, well, that could be the atmospheric energy.

(34:48):
We have to, you know, we have tomeasure that.
There's, there's so much that weneed to understand that could
be. But if there's intelligence
behind it, if there's a pattern to that intelligence that makes
me think, OK, there's something more to this that goes beyond
what we can experience in the inthe scientific world or what we

(35:09):
can actually see. This, this is science.
And I also refer it may be a case where my good friend
Richard Gallagher, Doctor Gallagher, who went to a
possession case and actually witnessed phenomena that was out
with science, just could not to measure.

(35:32):
There was no explanation for it.So we can't really measure that.
We can, but other people can witness that at the same time.
So then you know that it's not just connected to one mind.
There is something that is theresome force that is intelligence
behind it that's able to interact in the material world.

(35:57):
That then is more interesting and to me is more, OK, we've got
something, this is a potential, what I would say is, is, is, is
a haunting. This is something that we can
that we can get our teeth into and start to investigate.
So it's important to understand intelligent patterns is what
we're looking for. Yes, but I think also you, if

(36:20):
you have, you know, sometimes the pattern isn't intelligent.
It's just something on repeat. I know some hunters are are that
way and I think that's when we're like a battlefield
situation. I'm sorry, what?
Like a battlefield, like the something they see people see
all and over again. The energy replays itself.
Yes, residual energy. Yeah.

(36:42):
And I think that not only can that be read, but is that you
constantly bring people in to experience this energy, that
you're probably reinforcing it, that, you know, as everybody
draws their attention to this energy, it it helps hold it
there and doesn't allow it to dissipate.

(37:04):
And also, you know, these areas,for example, battlefields don't
get changed. I know for a fact when I go into
a house and I'm working on a specific area, I am changing the
energy of it. This is this is something I've
seen in this old house I was working on.
For example, I was ripping out carpets and pulling down old
wallpaper. And as I was doing that, I could

(37:27):
feel the energy of the house lift.
There was a lot of energy stuffed in these old materials.
They also stank. So, you know, definitely the
smell improved, but there was also the energy along with that.
And as you, you know, you sweep up all the old dust and all this
old stuff and vacuum up the areaand can clean, you know, wipe
things down. Everything started to feel

(37:49):
better. And it wasn't just like I said,
you're. Changing that, yeah, you're
changing the energy, the vibration.
Yeah, you're taking some of thisold energy out of the house
physically and then the place changes in the in, in addition
to obviously, you know, smell and all that kind of thing,
which definitely will not help the energy of a house at all.

(38:10):
So I think there's, this is, I feel, Craig, that this is going
to be like a second and a third part series to this because we
could go really deep. Like even though I'm thinking,
right, you know, we're gone for 40 minutes here.
We're going to, but there's going to be more.
So I think what we need to do, ladies and gentlemen, is we need

(38:30):
to do a couple of parts to this because there's so much to
unpack. There's so much to discuss in
this and, and even how hauntingshappen and you know, how we can
really understand them. And so do you know, kind of
getting back to to what you're saying in terms of the energy
that is displaced or the energy that is replayed over and over

(38:53):
again, What is it that you feel is important to know?
Because some people, we'll go toa battlefield, we'll go to a
place and not even experience anything yet.
There can be multitudes of people that will go and they
will say that they're experiencing something, whether
that energy has has played over or they're open to it.

(39:17):
What do you think is going on? So you asked me what I would
what I would say to people and Iwould say this, that there are
going to let's assume that the battlefield has the energy that
people are picking it up and that all of that is real.
If you're not experiencing it, it can just be that you are of a

(39:40):
personality that has successfully lowered the level
of psychic information around you so that you can function
better in other areas. So this isn't necessarily a bad
thing that you're not taking this energy in.
It's it's a matter of everybody being a little bit different and
having different strengths and weaknesses.

(40:03):
So not experiencing this stuff can just mean that you are
psychic. Defenses are really good.
But you don't get to choose where they're good at.
You can't just suddenly turn them off.
They're either going to be on orthey're going to be off.
And when you have people that have lower defenses against this
psychic information, yes, they get to experience this stuff,

(40:24):
but they all, there's also drawbacks to that in their own
lives. Taking in information easily
from other people is not always a good thing, as I'm sure you
can imagine. So.
Yeah, absolutely. And there can be bias in it
because you can have people thathave expectations of what
they're going to experience. I know for a fact that many,

(40:46):
many years ago when I was in Scotland, I went on a ghost tour
and I knew it was just a bit of fun.
And, and I I came and knew everybody that was experiencing
some something. They were all ready for it.
They were all primed for it. They were all, they were
expecting it. So where I was kind of more
skeptical, I didn't really say anything, but they did, they

(41:08):
experienced an awful lot. I'm less crazy because obviously
you set yourself up and of course there's there's that,
there's that whole idea of you're going to battlefield,
you're going to somewhere that'shaunted.
You have an expectation of it. This is where I want to bring in
something that's important. I was involved in a case in the
north of Scotland where the, the, the, the guy that called as

(41:30):
it was totally skeptical, didn'tbelieve in and neither did the
wife. And they, they moved into a home
and they experienced phenomenon.And the phenomenon was
objective. The washing machine would turn
on. There's usual things like so on
and off things would get moved. You know, the, as we would call
them maybe a porch and things like that.

(41:51):
But he actually objectively and saw his wife, actually saw
figures spread it. And that's what made him call,
no, he wasn't primed. He wasn't a believer.
He was really skeptical about everything.
But what he witnessed was strongenough that it instilled in him

(42:15):
a little bit of fear, a little bit of, you know, what the hell
is going on here, that he had tostart to investigate and, and
make moves. And that's when that's when we
come in. And so I think it's it's there's
more to be said for someone who's skeptical or someone who's
not primed for these experiencesto experience it and also have

(42:38):
it witnessed that makes it more formidable.
Absolutely. And it makes it more formidable.
And that's when you've got something serious.
So there's there's a lot of myths around hauntings.
There's a lot of myths around what it takes.
And we're not even getting into that.
You know how that happens, but there's other myths that we need

(42:59):
to understand as well is that hauntings can also be created
this, and this is a bit of a myth as well because of certain
frequencies that are being used by, you know, it could be even
be as simple as cell towers or military operations that are

(43:24):
going on that can cause, you know, a disturbance in the
ether, if you like, or in so whatever's going all around in
your area, that's another thing you need to look at.
It's not necessarily a haunting.There's there's maybe something
that that's this that's going onthat you don't know about and
that could actually be be createin this this phenomena.

(43:49):
That's an interesting point. And one of the things that kind
of blew my mind quite a while ago was when I was looking into
scientific evidence for astrology that there are, you
know, that there are effects from the moon.
The there's an actual, yeah, there's an actual witching hour,

(44:11):
but it's not on regular time. It's on.
It's, it's on galactic time, I guess, because when the center
of the Galaxy is visible in the sky for a certain amount of
time, I think it's like for 1/2 an hour or something, psychic
humility jumps up like 4 times. So there's, I think it's called

(44:33):
LST, but then there's like this entirely different time frame
based upon the, where the Galaxyis in the sky and these things
that that sort of thing can affect us.
It tells you that there's forcesout there.
Again, we're talking about things that are, we don't, we
normally can't measure, but there are forces working that

(44:55):
are beyond our our understandingand knowledge that can affect
how much we're getting boosted in or or dampened in terms of
our ability to perceive that these things happen without us
having any conscious knowledge of it.
You know, you, when you think back to ancient civilizations
and you think back to even Druids in, in the culture in

(45:18):
Scotland and Native Americans and African tribes and foreign
tribes, you know, they put a great deal of emphasis on lunar
energies. You know, I'm not, my wife is
more of a bit of an expert on astrology and stuff like that.
I mean, I don't understand half of that.

(45:39):
I don't understand, understand any of that stuff.
But I do know that there's, there's an element and you're
right, there's an element in these energies that have weird
effects. And, and this is interesting and
I wonder it may even be good research.
It could be a good psychic research actually, or ESP
research and women's monthly cycles or women's men, you know,

(46:06):
when they go through the menopause because they're lunar,
that changes them in some way. I wonder if that even makes
them. I know we're jumping off from
hauntings, but you never know. Women can be haunted.
I mean, some of them are screaming crazies as well when
they're going through menopause and stuff like that.
So you can imagine that these energies affect them and I
wonder if it actually makes themmore heightened to phenomena and

(46:30):
experiencing that phenomena because of their cycles and you
know, lunar stuff. Here's two guys talking about
this is a bit weird. I know it is.
We need another woman, and it's.Like yeah my wifes getting into
her 60s. I'm not going to touch this with
a 10 foot pole. This is really.
Whatsoever. No, no I don't.

(46:52):
This is off my table. I am not touching into women's
issues at all. This is this is where we needed
we needed to bring someone that we know who's also like a
parapsychologist that we could that's a woman that's gone
through the menopause and control these that we can talk
about because this is just weirdthat's gone anywhere.
But I do think though, right, come back any hauntings, maybe

(47:14):
there's an explanation for some phenomena that they experience,
because a lot of women experience these hauntings.
And I found that it's, there's only been a few men that have
kind of call. It's always, it's normally
always a woman who's who's trying to message and call us
out for some kind of problem. There's very, very few males
that do that. So I wonder if that has anything

(47:36):
to do with maybe the phenomena of the experience in their homes
as well. Well, women have more
connections in between the two halves of their brain than men
do, so they were probably this. This leads me to believe that
they're probably able to better hold their mental logical focus

(47:58):
and experiences the experience experience these things at the
same time because those connections are are are better
for them than they are in men. So I would expect them to do
better. Whereas with men, you'll flip
over from one side to the other because the two sides don't
really talk to each other as well.
So you're either going are. You saying that we're a little?

(48:20):
Are you saying that we're a little bit more backward than
women now? Just be careful what you're
saying. Well, you know, women are
probably a little bit more sensible than men and a little
less extreme most of the time. That's been my my experience.
Oh, that was a good balance thatyou stuck right there, Craig, I

(48:43):
can tell you we'll need to get some female investigators on,
you know, as we can talk to as well.
I do think it's something worth it's something worth
researching. I do think that this, this,
this, and as we're talking aboutkind of the myths of hauntings
and things like that, I think that's something that needs to
be understood as well as is is biological cycles, certainly for

(49:08):
females. And and who knows, maybe, maybe
there's something to do with themoon and guys as well.
Maybe we have, we have a mad, a mad experience with certain
lunar eclipses and things like that.
God knows, I don't know, but there's a certain we're.
Just better at explaining it away.
You know what, you know what's interesting as well, I found

(49:29):
there was increased hot and thisis weird, there was increased
hauntings or reports of hauntings during COVID.
I would expect that mostly because people are more confined
to their spaces and more aware of what's going on around them,
rather than being caught up in abusy life which would tend to
dampen your ability to experience.

(49:50):
Absolutely. And and, and it goes back to my,
my theory that they kind of haunt, they kind of haunt
themselves a little bit. And, and a lot of these
experiences and I, I often have to wonder again, like and not
I'm going to anything political,I think, because I'm not that
way inclined. But some of the, the vac, the
vaccinations is. So they we don't know if that

(50:12):
had any kind of other type of effect that may have also, you
know, exacerbated what you perceive or what you feel.
So that's a potential as well. That's interesting that and
here's the other thing is that illness can often bring on and
I'm not going to mental health because I want to do a whole

(50:33):
subject, another episode on thatwhole thing.
But illness can also bring aboutpotential experiences, haunting
experiences. Just think about what happens
when you're kidding. If your kidneys start to fail,

(50:54):
or if you start to have issues with certain systems in your
body, you can start to experience things differently.
Yeah, the interaction of the body and the brain is, you know,
in terms of your experiences, you know, they know physically
what's happening, but it not necessarily in terms of how

(51:17):
you're going to experience something because science really
can't measure an experience. They it can only take note of
it. So, you know, these things are
in the realm of possibility. It's just, you know, it's
another one of those. Well, that was interesting.
More study is needed. You know, that that's where
I've, you know, one of the papers that I wrote on is, is I

(51:38):
do believe that we need to blendmore science with experiential
processes and to measure some experiences that we have from a
phenomenological perspective andblend that in the science so
that we can take these subjective experiences and see,
because I do believe that some subjective experiences can give

(51:59):
us empirical evidence. Yeah, yeah.
And and this gets back to the problem that everything is a
subjective experience when you dial it all the way back to its
core. Absolutely.
Yeah. What we don't actually have
objective objectivity. What we have is consensus.
Yeah, that's true. A little bit different.

(52:20):
So it all kind of opens this up for, you know, more a more open
and less black and white sort ofview of everything.
Absolutely. And I think that's important.
I think it's important that we understand what the myths are

(52:41):
surrounding this before we go onto really, you know, what's the
realities of it and how it does actually happen and realize that
we're, we're very powerful humanbeings.
Our mind is incredibly powerful.It can play tricks on us just as
much as anything else. And also there's there's this
kind of social aspect to it because socially we can be

(53:03):
primed for a haunting. We just need to listen to
stories. And then we get.
Yeah. And.
We can be primed not to experience them.
This works. Absolutely in the same case.
In the same case, we can actually prime for it.
You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot to be said for
people that say, well, my host is on some kind of burial land

(53:27):
or some kind of land and therefore bomb the stories that
go around the area. And the minute you experience
something you think is a haunting because you're praying
socially because of that, you can also be praying socially
because of tragedies that happenimmediately.
When a tragedy happens, you think that's going to be
haunted. Where is that?

(53:48):
There's going to be these, these, there's going to be this.
And then before you note the stories, create the hauntings.
There's been stories and there'sbeen so many times where
hauntings have been faked because there's a need for
social connection. And I know for a fact there's

(54:10):
some cases that I've been calledout on and I know other people
that you know, be called out on.I know for a fact that it's been
dialed in because there's, there's, there's a need for
social connection because they're disconnected.
And so there's the, the potential.
That's another potential problemthat you have to investigate and
look at is what is the social factors surrounding this data.

(54:36):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
That's one of the the challengesof anything involving the
paranormal when you're dealing with, you know, a lot of this
are people's accounts of what happened rather than being able
to experience a lot of these vertical details for yourself.
And then this gets into the Grayarea of what are the
motivations, you know, what is the the ability of these people

(55:00):
to to talk objectively on this and all that sort of thing.
And it all has to be weighed, and even if you did a perfect
analysis, you can hand it to somebody else and they'll have a
completely different take on it.Well, it's just, it's the same
as that analogy. What you look at and what I look
at. We may be looking at the same
thing but seeing different things.
Yeah, and, and truthfully, we don't really know, for example,

(55:24):
whether you and I can look at a tree and see the same thing
that's. Exactly what I'm talking.
I see exactly what I mean. We're looking at a tree, we look
at the same tree, but we see different things.
Yeah, we don't even know whetherwe're seeing different things.
That's that's part of the challenge of it is we can both
describe the tree exactly, but there's no way to know whether

(55:46):
we're seeing it exactly the same.
I know that's fascinating actually.
And that's, that's the same withthe haunting because what
someone or I don't want to say ahaunting because a perceived
haunting or a perceived disturbance in the ether, if you
like what people are experiencing, because each and
every one of them experiencing them each, every experience is

(56:08):
unique. Every experience is different.
Yeah. And just to add to that, and I'm
going to beat this tree analogy absolutely into the ground here.
But the the thing of the thing of this when we're both looking
at these trees is both of us carry cultural and personal
attachments to looking at a tree.

(56:29):
There are wheat. We have so many of our own ideas
about trees that go along with looking at it that when we see
it, our emotional landscape around that tree, that the
things that we project on to seeing that tree, whether we're
deriving comfort from it or whether we see it as something,
whether we see it as lumber or whether we see this tree as a

(56:52):
life giving, spiritual mother Earth sort of force.
We're all bringing our own interpretations, impressions and
emotions into that tree, and no two people are going to be
exactly alike in doing that. And because of this, we're not
seeing the same tree. That's true, yeah, because our

(57:14):
experience, our subjective experiences are unique and
different. Yep, Yep, and you could.
And that's the same with the haunting law, the potential
haunting. Yeah.
That's because what people are experiencing is subjectively
different to ever. And I've seen, you know, I've
seen cases where no cases, the ones, yeah, I've seen some

(57:35):
shows, TV shows where they're inand everybody's experience is
different. They may have some kind of
pattern to it, maybe like, oh, I'm hearing this voice or
something else and let's listening to it and everything
else. But uniquely, everything is
different. And, and that's the, that's the,
that's the difficulty in trying to, to understand this
phenomena, trying to measure this phenomena is how unique it

(57:59):
actually is and how we're actually perceiving it.
How does one person perceive it?What is unique to them is not
unique to another. Yeah, exactly.
So I think all of this has to betaken account when you evaluate
a a paranormal experience that somebody has, whether it's a
haunting or whether it's a poltergeist or whether it's

(58:20):
another that they're they're bringing their own cultural and
personal baggage into it. And we don't and and we are
bringing our own because nobody is truly objective there.
So these things have to be takeninto account.
You know, we're, we, we may be more objective, but there's

(58:44):
always a Gray area. We are all bringing in our own
cultural and emotional baggage into everything that we that we
examine. And and that's important.
So Kig, we've been gone for an hour and we'll round it off,
we'll round it off there. So we don't want to kind of
give, give the whole the all thesweets away in the sweet shop.

(59:07):
And I'll invite you, ladies and gentlemen, this is just the
first of a long case of what we're going to be talking about.
Today is just an introduction. We're talking about busting some
myths of what hauntings are, that kind of thing.
But join us in we on the next episode.
We're going to be talking about mental health and hauntings, how

(59:27):
hauntings actually occur, getting into Portuguese
phenomena. This is a haunting series that
we are generally that we're doing now on Paranormal Daily
News. And who knows, we might even
bring some other experts and I'msure we'll get Lloyd then to
maybe help us and talk to us about some some stuff as well.
But do join us again as we bringup more.

(59:49):
And if you've got any questions then, you know, get onto
paranormaldailynews.com and sendus your questions.
Anything you want to know. There's a lot of myths
surrounding wantons. Just remember.
Most hauntings can be scientifically validated as not
being a haunting and have a natural explanation.

(01:00:10):
But we are going to get into some cases where there is no
explanation. And also from my good friend and
colleague here. Final thoughts on hauntings,
construction, and the mind. Oh, we're going to throw
construction in here. OK, so when you're talking about

(01:00:34):
hauntings and you're talking about houses, houses are in
their own ways, almost like living things in that they they,
they start out new, they age, they change people, add things
to them, people take stuff away from them.
And they, they have their own personalities and they are a

(01:00:56):
player in the game, so to speak,that you're, you're putting your
energy in. I I for example, built the house
I'm living in so. Nice.
Yeah, so. I'd love to say the same thing
right now. So this is, you know, this is,
this is how I look at it. You know, houses, they, they
have personalities and I think Ican leave it at that.

(01:01:20):
Awesome. So ladies and gentlemen, thank
you for being with us. We've been over an hour.
We are delighted that you can come and join us again.
Again, ask any questions paranormal doing news.com.
The next session we're going to be going into maybe how how
hauntings occur, real hauntings occur and maybe talk more about

(01:01:41):
the the particular types of hauntings.
So again, this is just the beginning of a series that we're
going to cover some information.So please join us once again.
Thank you for being with us. This is deadly departed.
I'm Jock. That is my good friend Craig and

(01:02:02):
we are signing off God bless.