July 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Accepting My Goddess Status | Unlocking the Divine Feminine with Heidi Degraffenried is more than a conversation—it's an awakening. 🌸✨
In this powerful episode of Dear Daughters of God, I sit down with women's development expert and author Heidi Degraffenried to explore what it truly means to step into our divine feminine identity. Heidi’s journey from invisibility and emotional burnout to clarity, purpose, and spiritual connection is one every woman needs to hear.
We discuss:
Breaking free from cultural and internal expectations
Finding strength through softness and spiritual grounding
What it looks like to receive divine love and embody your worth
How self-compassion can change your life
Her transformative book: The Goddess Code
Heidi reminds us that divine femininity is not just poetic—it's powerful, sacred, and needed in the world today.
💬 If you’ve ever felt like you're too much, not enough, or forgotten in the busyness of life, this episode will help you remember: you are divine, and your voice matters.
🎙️ Learn more about Heidi and her work: https://www.sherisecenter.com
Thanks for listening! I'm on Instagram as deardaughtersofgod. Follow me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/invites/contact/?i=1iyjqx0cq4kbk&utm_content=qr66nqv
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (00:00):
Just thinking of us just waking up
(00:02):
and thinking, wait a second,what am I bound by?
Sometimes we're bound by otherpeople's opinions.
We're bound by duty.
Were bound by.
Cultural norms, we're bound byfear, where, lots of things are
binding us.
And if we can just shake offthose binds.
Stephanie test (00:22):
Welcome to Dear Daughters of God.
This is Stephanie Eccles, yourhost
This is episode 26, accepting mygoddess status, unlocking the
divine Feminine with HeidiDegraffenreid.
I am a retired school administrator
natural storyteller, and I am adaughter of God.
Now, I tell the stories
(00:43):
of our lives from theperspective
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Microphone (Samson Q2U (00:47):
Welcome, Dear Daughters of God.
I address you that way becausethat's what you are to Him.
To our Heavenly Father, you aredear
Hello, listeners, you may notrealize that this episode is on
YouTube.
Come watch this one.
Heidi and I are on screentogether in a heartfelt,
inspiring conversation you won'twant to miss.
(01:08):
Look up the channel, deardaughters of God, and this
episode accepting my goddessstatus.
I hope to see you there andthank you for listening.
Stephanie test (01:17):
Our guest today is Heidi Degraffenried, and
we're so glad to have her.
Heidi has written a book and I'mgoing to read to you a little
bit of the book that's inspiredme.
But first I want to introduceHeidi and then have her say
hello.
Heidi de Graafenreid is awomen's development expert with
(01:38):
more than 25 years experienceteaching women to gain self
awareness, trust in herguidance, and maximize their
greatest traits.
Her goal is to unlock the bestin women, to unlock the best in
society.
She is the author of The GoddessCode.
and host of The Goddess Codepodcast.
(02:00):
She's been married to herhusband, Jimmy, for 30 years.
And is the mother of six plusthree in law kids and grandma
Cookie to four adorablegrandkids.
She loves hiking, yoga, travel,art, and attempting Pinterest
projects.
I can relate to that attemptingPinterest projects, Heidi.
(02:24):
Welcome Heidi.
Thank you for joining us.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (02:26):
Thank you so much for having me,
Stephanie.
I'm delighted to be here and tospeak to your audience and the
beautiful daughters of God thatI know they are.
Stephanie test (02:34):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Well, I want to hear about theinspiration for writing this
book.
The goddess
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (02:42):
it was a long time coming.
It was the journey of life andin learning when I got married
very young.
I moved with my husband to thetown where he was attending
school and he was playingbasketball and he was very,
known in town everywhere wewent, people wanted to.
Talked to him and it was whenthey did it was if I wasn't even
(03:02):
there.
It's invisible and just on adaily basis I remember at the
birth of our first son I'mtrying to roll into a ball
during a contraction so theAnesthesiologist can do an
epidural and he's chatting withmy husband about basketball I
was a little angry about thatand honestly, my husband was a
little bit upset as well
Stephanie test (03:22):
I can see why.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (03:24):
It was always just that feeling of
who I was.
Wasn't important.
It didn't matter.
It was overlookable.
And so then I feel like I spentfrom that time, just poured
myself into trying to prove thatI mattered in some way, being
the best wife, the best mom, thebest friend, the best PTA lady,
the best church lady, whatever Icould do to prove my value.
(03:47):
And for probably about 15 years,I was in that state of just.
Trying to be and trying tomatter.
And I reached a point after thebirth of my sixth child,
probably a couple of monthsafter I was just wrecked.
I was miserable.
I was laying in bed and I wassick and I wasn't sure what was
wrong.
(04:08):
I had these pains in my abdomenthat just were weird.
They were unexplainable at thetime.
And I just remember thinking, Ifeel like I'm dying.
I thought I must have cancer orsome issues like that.
And I was having thisconversation with God and just
going through the scenario in mymind of leaving behind this
(04:28):
huge, Big young family and whatthat would mean to them.
And just the heartbreak of thatfor me to not be here as a part
of that.
And I, it came to a point ofsurrender where I just said, I
will be done.
And I felt that surrender.
And as my mind and heart quietedinto that, I felt the answer
(04:50):
come in my mind was almost likea question.
Really, even if my will is foryou to thrive and be happy.
And that kind of took me back.
I was like, come again.
I thought I was, I thought I wasdying.
I thought that was the will.
And the next part, he said.
(05:11):
You can continue down this sadpath that could lead to a sad
end, but that is not my will foryou.
My will is for you to thrive andbe happy.
And that was really, that was areally a turning point for me
that helped me to start to lookat what that meant to thrive.
And I had another vein runningthrough my life.
(05:33):
From my patriarchal blessing, ittalked about the gift of healing
and helping people heal throughthe principles of the gospel.
And so I had gone into massage,when I was 18, I went to massage
school and I was working withpeople through these years as
well.
And as I would do massage, Iwould.
Get these sort of impressions ofthings to say, or ideas that
would come and I would questionthose, but then just decided,
(05:53):
I'm just going to go with it andsee if it's God or not.
And so many times it was verymeaningful to people what was
shared.
And so I had that vein ofhealing and service to others
running through my life, but Idon't think I ever applied it to
myself.
And so as Heavenly Fatherstarted to teach me how to
(06:15):
thrive and how to live and I wasworking with other women.
So my own life and then theexperiences and the stories of
women, there were these patternsemerging.
And I started to see every womanjust needs to know these certain
principles, these certainconcepts that if we really
understood them, we couldthrive.
and so that is where the bookcame from.
(06:35):
It's just these patterns ofthese concepts and principles
that, that really, once weunderstand them and really
embody and embrace them aswomen, our lives are beautiful.
They're amazing.
So that's the context of.
The beginning of that,
Stephanie test (06:50):
Okay, so it wasn't cancer.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (06:53):
it will be cancer,
Stephanie test (06:54):
It was instead you were going to be thriving,
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (06:57):
right?
Stephanie test (06:58):
right?
What an opposite effect
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (07:02):
And there were some physical issues
that I have had to work throughbut it wasn't so much of it was
the emotional side of it.
The lack of self regard that, Iwas burning myself out so much
because I was trying to makeeveryone else happy that I just,
I was exhausted.
Stephanie test (07:20):
And you started seeing this in other women as
well, this similar pattern intheir life.
Being blessed with inspirationto help them through it and
wondering, should I say it?
Should I not?
And then you would, and itsounds like you were learning
more by trusting yourself and bysaying it.
(07:43):
Yeah.
And trusting that it was okay ifI got it wrong.
When we get things wrong, westill learn and that's how we
learn, how God speaks to us isjust.
Speaking it and seeing, how itlands.
And I actually did have anexperience one time where it did
not land well, and it was reallypainful for me.
(08:04):
And I took that to heavenlyfather after, and I was like,
what was that?
I feel like I said what youwanted me to say, and it didn't
land well.
And I just felt like he said,that's not your responsibility.
You said what I wanted you tosay.
It just, it wasn't received, butthat's not your job.
Your job is just to speak it andlet the rest be.
(08:26):
I bet that was a difficult,awkward moment.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (08:29):
It was, but also a good lesson,
that we're not always going tobe well received by everyone.
But if our heart is in line withGod, that's really all we can
seek to be.
Stephanie test (08:40):
Yes.
But like you said the lessonthat you really needed was to
give it and, you can't control.
How it's received.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (08:49):
Right.
Stephanie test (08:50):
Oh, okay.
What was there a scripture, acertain scripture or a scripture
story that inspired you duringthis time when you were
basically given theunderstanding that no, you're
not going to be sick.
Matter of fact, you're going tothrive and be happy.
That's what I want.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (09:09):
There was a couple stories.
The one that really was thebeginning of the book, it is in
Isaiah, 52 and he says,
Stephanie test (09:20):
Is this the one that relates to the part that's
so poetic?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (09:23):
Yeah.
Stephanie test (09:24):
Oh, can I read that first?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024 (09:26):
absolutely.
Stephanie test (09:27):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, Heidi.
I think our listeners will findthis so inspirational.
This was right in theintroduction and Heidi's words
were so poetic.
I highlighted it right on pagefour.
It says this.
Quote, she suddenly wakes andsees she has been bound and held
(09:47):
as a slave and didn't realize ituntil that moment she rises and
unties herself from the bandsthat have tethered her unquote.
Okay, go ahead.
Thank you, Heidi.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (10:01):
So in that scripture, he, he says,
awake, awake, put on mystrength, O Zion, put on my
beautiful garments.
And then in verse two, he says,shake thyself from the dust,
arise and sit down, O Jerusalem,loose thyself from the bands of
thy neck, O captive daughter ofZion.
(10:22):
Just the visual of that is, iswhat I put in the book.
Just thinking of us just wakingup and thinking, wait a second,
what am I bound by?
Sometimes we're bound by otherpeople's opinions.
We're bound by duty.
Were bound by.
Cultural norms, we're bound byfear, where, lots of things are
binding us.
And if we can just shake offthose binds.
(10:45):
And then when he says arise andsit down, I picture that as
almost like a queen, arising andbeing heralded as the queen and
then sitting on her throne andtaking her place.
And, so as we loose ourself fromthese bands, we become free and
we become the daughters that,that were meant to be,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:09):
when we lose ourselves from the bands of
what other people believe weshould be.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (11:14):
right,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:16):
I see.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (11:16):
or anything.
It could be what we think weshould be as
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:19):
Or what we think.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13 (11:20):
Anything that binds us, that is not true.
It's usually just untruth thatbinds us in some form.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:27):
I see.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (11:27):
There is one in Corinthians that at
that time when I was trying tofigure out my work and myself
and find that validation, I wasa little bit, Irritated, maybe
is a good word at HeavenlyFather, just feeling like why
couldn't I have cool gifts?
So why couldn't I have thingslike singing or, sports or
(11:51):
performance?
Something that people, thatother people really value and
understand.
And, and I took it to God and Iwas maybe challenging Him a
little bit.
And I just happened to flip openmy scriptures.
And still to this day, wheneverI just flip my scriptures open,
it lands on this page.
But it's 1 Corinthians 15, 10,and it says, By the grace of
(12:14):
God, I am what I am, and Hisgrace which was bestowed upon me
was not in vain.
But I labored more abundantlythan they all, yet not I, but
the grace of God, which was withme.
And I just, when, when I readthat first line by the grace of
God, I am what I am.
It just hit me that who I am iswho God made me to be.
(12:35):
And it's his grace that allowsme to be who I am.
And instead of wishing for.
Other things than what I am tojust really labor abundantly in
them and use them and not letthem be in vain.
Just use them for wherever andhowever they are a value to,
others and to myself and tohumanity.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (12:54):
Yes.
It's beautiful.
Beautiful.
I'm so glad you came to thatunderstanding.
Yes.
Okay.
Now that we understand theinspiration for your book, how
you came to it to finally writeit, because I know it took a
while.
It was in your mind brewing forquite some time until you got it
on paper.
And so now why don't you tell usactually about the book?
(13:18):
the goddess code.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (13:20):
okay, well, I started out with 40
different principles and my, my,My operators were like, it's
just a lot.
I can't keep it.
I can't keep track of it, sothen I cut it to 30, like three
categories of 10 and it just, itwas just too much.
I think really that's one thing.
And in just sharing is to findthe most essential.
(13:45):
And it paired back to, the ideacame for an acronym with goddess
and those seven, so there'sseven key concepts that go along
with that as an acronym togoddess and, and so each of them
have just a different principle,a different idea and a different
practice to go with that to helpus get to where we can embody
(14:05):
and use that, so,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (14:07):
Okay.
So each letter stands is anacronym.
Tell us about the G then.
That's probably a very importantone.
It's the first one.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (14:15):
Yeah, the G is, it stands for the
girlfriend rule and, it, it isprobably the one that when
people talk to me about thebook, I've gotten the most
feedback on that, that it's beenso impactful for people because
I think as women, we are notvery good.
At being kind to ourselves.
And, when you think about, yourbest friend, your best
(14:37):
girlfriend coming to you andtelling you about just a
horrible experience she had, andshe's so ashamed or she's so
embarrassed and how you respondto her and the love and the
support, the encouragement, theempathy that you show her.
And then you compare that toyourself when you're in that
situation where you'reembarrassed and you're ashamed
and how you respond to yourself.
(14:57):
Is usually incredibly different
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (14:59):
Yeah.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (15:01):
if you had used that response on
your friend, there's a goodchance.
You wouldn't still be friendsand so I think that,
Understanding the compassionthat we give ourselves is so
powerful.
There's a book called the selfcompassion workbook by Kristen
Neff.
And in that she talks about how,I think part of the reason we
don't give ourselves compassionis because we think if we do,
(15:23):
we'll just slack and we won'tcontinue to grow and progress.
But in that she talks about howself compassionate people, are
usually, they're usually moreresilient.
They're usually.
Not as hard on themselves whenthey fail, they're more willing
to try again after they fail andthey do find more success and
happiness measurably overall.
And so it's not actually truethat we need to kind of prod and
(15:47):
beat ourselves up to becomebetter in that compassion.
We actually.
Do become better.
And this was a huge shift tokind of a turning point in my
life as well.
Like when I could, this was agame changer for me when I
really learned to supportmyself.
It's like, if you think ofyourself as a cell phone for a
minute when we tear ourselvesdown, it's running our battery
(16:08):
down, so we get really low.
Then we look to other people tobuild us up again and kind of be
the charger for us, kind ofrecharge us I don't know about
you, but I hate when people wantto borrow my charger.
I'm very protective of my phonecharger.
I think it's, it's just muchmore efficient and effective to
have our own charge, to be ableto charge ourselves up and to
(16:30):
supply that for ourselves withthat compassion and that love.
And it's not necessary to tearourselves down the way that we
generally do, especially aswomen, we tend to be harder on
ourselves than anyone else wewould never talk to anyone else
the way we talk to ourselves.
And so just turning that aroundand really learning to have
compassion for yourself.
(16:51):
I remember the first time I didthis, my husband and I were in
this kind of couples Olympics.
We were doing all thesedifferent sporting events, which
I'm not a great athlete and heis.
And I just always felt like Iwas letting him down because I
wasn't succeeding at these.
And we were playing a volleyballgame and I was just like, You
can do this, Heidi.
You can do it.
(17:11):
I'm, I believe in you.
You can do it.
And I felt that sort ofsupporting of myself and it
lifted me and it helped me tostay focused and it helped me to
do what I needed to do.
And we actually ended up winningthe game and I was like, yay,
good job, Heidi.
You stayed in it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (17:27):
You did it.
You did it.
It was that, compassionate waywith yourself that helped.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (17:33):
Yeah.
And I just think in so manyareas, when we can be
compassionate to ourselves, wejust, we can relax, we can
settle into our lives so muchmore and truly become who we're
meant to be instead of juststaying restricted and
constricted all the time, likethe shame and the guilt tend to
do to us.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (17:54):
Yes.
I agree with you.
I remember when I was, first,getting migraines at, when I was
executive director of Excelsiorschools and, it was very hard to
keep up with the work week,having daily migraines.
I was aware of this importanceof self compassion and.
(18:14):
I've started to use it more thanI ever had in my life, just
because I knew, I, I think itwas like, an emergency type
trigger turned on.
It was like, use it or, or, You,you won't make it.
So I would just say to myself, Icall myself sweetheart to try to
(18:35):
make it through the day.
And I compliment myself on thesimplest things because I knew
how difficult it was for me tomake it with these migraines
doing my daily work.
So I can relate to that havingbeen through something unusual
and very difficult in my life.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (18:54):
I love that you refer to yourself
as sweetheart because it'salmost, a maternal sort of
phrase and, and there's so manytimes in our lives when, when we
do feel there's, there, that's aquestion I will have people ask.
How old do you feel in this?
And when they, you know, maybeit's like six or three or 12
and, and to be able to meetyourself with that kind of
(19:16):
compassion and love as a mom,your own mother, your own
parent, it is so powerful aswell.
And just that is such a tenderphrase and example.
I love that.
Thanks for sharing that with me.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (19:28):
Yes.
It, it's kind of like a motherlyphrase, isn't it?
And I think that's why I wasusing it because I felt so,
vulnerable at that time.
So vulnerable.
Okay.
What about the o?
The o Is, is that one of the, Iknow they're all important
acronyms, but is, is that thenext one you would choose to, to
(19:49):
describe for us?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (19:50):
think so, because the O to me is sort
of a master key and it standsfor open connection, which is an
open connection with God orsource or divine.
I don't think it really mattersthe name you use.
It's just having that connectionand knowing that you.
are loved and valued by someonehigher than yourself, someone
(20:11):
bigger than yourself.
And that, that there's supportthere that, that we can lean on
and lean into from a heavenlysource.
And a lot of people, theirrelationship with God is wounded
because We tend to connect our,relationship with our parents to
a relationship with heavenlyparents.
We tend to overlap some of theissues on those and, or maybe
(20:35):
you've been taught in a waythat, God is punishing or God is
angry God, or, you know,whatever it might be that, that
the learning and theconditioning that you were given
was that it wasn't a safe place.
And so I think being able toreally open that connection and
feel into the safety of that, Iactually have one of my podcasts
(20:56):
is a meditation that guidespeople into just opening the
connection and bringing thatlight and love into every part
of their body.
And that's how I start mysessions as well, is just by,
bringing in, opening thatconnection and that love and
allowing it to flow and.
One thing I've learned is thatwe sit like fish in water with,
(21:16):
with God's love.
It's always around us.
He never withdraws his love fromus.
It's us that sort of covers theconnection and closes that
channel.
And so it's like, if you take adish and it has a lid on it and
you stick it into a bowl ofwater, you can submerge it all
the way, but it still doesn'tfill.
(21:37):
With the water until you takethe lid off and then you
submerge that dish, it willimmediately fill with water.
And that's how I feel like ourguilt, our shame, our feeling
like we have to earn God's love.
Feeling like our past or feelingbroken, a lot of things will
cause us to put the lid on.
And so just realizing there isno limit to God's love.
(22:01):
There's nothing that, can keepyou from being loved by him.
And so just opening yourself tothat is the best way to make it
through any experience, even ifyou've messed up in something,
even if you're in a situation ofyour own making that's
difficult, it's still by openingthat connection that you will
find your way through it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (22:22):
So, it's referring to prayer, if you
will, right?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (22:25):
right.
But I feel like you can pray andstill not open the connection.
It's almost more of like amindful allowing or receiving of
God's love to Let it into yourheart and your mind.
And we, as women are not verygood at receiving.
(22:46):
We tend to give and give, butit's like our heart.
If you only pumped the blood outof your heart and you never
allow it to come back, eitherway you cut it off, you will not
live.
And so I think it's that sameidea.
Just opening yourself to receiveand feel the love and allowing
yourself to feel it.
In prayer, in meditation, injust being still and listening.
(23:09):
Sometimes in journaling, I'llsit and write just whatever
words come.
I'll just write it a word at atime without thinking ahead of
time.
And just write out.
I've gotten such beautifulanswers that way, just by
opening my willingness toreceive from God.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (23:24):
I see it.
I see it now.
Yes.
Taking that time to, listen, tofeel, to reflect what, the
spirit is saying to us.
But Heavenly Father wants us toknow from Him.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (23:40):
Think we all sort of stand as a
person.
A radio receiver, we all sort ofhave the capacity to receive
that the messages, theinspiration, the understanding
from God, it's just, sometimeswe're not tuned in, you know,
like, the old dial radios whereyou had to really tune in to,
understand it.
Or to hear the songs, I thinkit's the same.
(24:03):
We just have to really tune ourheart and tune our mind to pick
up the receiving end of thatbroadcast.
And it's there.
It's always there.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:14):
It took me a while to understand how to do
that within my scripturereading.
I was better at doing that inprayer, and I would hear about
people doing that while inscripture reading.
But I eventually learned how todo that myself while in
scripture reading.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (24:31):
Mm
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:31):
And I did learn to do that when Come
Follow Him.
I learned how to do thatproficiently or, proficiently
was too strong a word.
Better, better.
When Come Follow Me, thecurriculum became available to
us.
that has really opened up doorsto my, insights when I was able
to understand what the Lord wastelling me through scriptures in
(24:54):
addition to my prayers.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (24:57):
hmm.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:58):
Yeah.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (24:59):
Yeah, that's exactly how he spoke to
me with, that time with theCorinthian scripture.
It was just right there and justflipping open my scriptures and,
you know, kind of having hiswords right there speak to me
and then trusting what yourheart tells you in that moment
That he is speaking to you and Ilove that you've gotten
proficient in that.
I'm sure you have.
(25:19):
I'm going to give you that wordbecause did
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (25:27):
I'm not proficiently by any means, but
it's an education word.
So I say it out of habit, butI'm better and I need to give
credit to Melanie Wellman.
She had a podcast or she stillhas follow him.
Come follow him for us.
And she taught everyone how todo it from the way her mission
president taught hismissionaries.
(25:49):
That's where I learned how to,practice daily in receiving
messages from the spirit throughthe scriptures.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (25:57):
They have specific steps?
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (25:59):
Okay.
Well, I will just lay it out andsee if I get it right.
She'll have to correct me if Iget it wrong.
Okay.
You, you lay out a block of timerather than a set of scriptures,
rather than saying, I'm going toread one chapter, or I'm going
to read five verses, rather thanthat, lay out a block of time
for your scripture reading.
(26:19):
Like I'm going to read for 20minutes, And whether it's one
scripture or five, it's 10verses or one chapter.
That doesn't matter.
It's just your block of time.
You start with that block oftime and then you start with
prayer and you ask Heavenlyfather to bless you as you read
the scriptures, with his spiritto speak to you through the
(26:42):
scriptures.
And if you can, take the time torepent in that prayer, then as
you begin to read, havesomething to write with.
So I got myself a littlescripture journal.
And then as you read, if you ifyou begin to fill the spirit,
anytime you fill the spirit,stop and write down the very
(27:05):
scripture verbatim that in whichyou fill the spirit, just write
it down.
Word for word.
After you're done writing itdown, more thoughts.
May come to you.
Write those thoughts down.
That's, that's the spiritrevealing to you what it is.
(27:27):
Maybe thoughts won't come toyou, but much of the time
thoughts will come to you.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134 (27:31):
Mm-Hmm.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (27:32):
Write those thoughts down.
It is surprising to me whatthoughts will come to me after
writing down the scriptureverbatim.
Then at the end of thosethoughts, I've always learned a
lesson and Then I go back to myscripture reading unless my time
is over at the end of myscriptures reading.
Then you're supposed to end withprayer and thank heavenly father
(27:55):
for being with you and for, forthat time.
Sometimes there's times where Idon't feel the spirit and I
don't write down, but.
More often than not, I do feelthe Spirit, and I do write down
a scripture verbatim.
And more often than not, thatleads to me writing more on that
scripture than just thescripture itself.
(28:19):
And it leads to a life lesson.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (28:21):
I love that.
And I love the idea of therepenting, sort of the
releasing.
I feel like repentance and sin,sin is a constriction.
It's sort of a tension withinour system.
And repentance is a relaxing areleasing of that tension.
And so putting yourself in thatposition where you can relax and
(28:42):
release the tension allows youto open up that connection as
well.
And I think that's such abeautiful way to do it.
And I love having steps likethat because sometimes our
conscious mind is like, but Idon't know how, or I need to
know how.
And so it's beautiful to givethose steps.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (28:58):
Yes.
That's a good point, Heidi.
That's a very good point.
Yes.
And I better say, she's marriednow and married again.
Her name is Melanie WellmanStroud.
give her credit and give hercorrect name.
And it was her missionpresident, I don't know his
name, that taught hismissionaries how to do that.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (29:16):
What a gift.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (29:18):
All right.
Is there another acronym you'dlike to share with us from the
Goddess Code?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (29:23):
Well, part of the, the E stands for
empowered and embodied.
And part of that understandingto really be able to stand in
the embodiment of the feminine,has to do with understanding the
value of the feminine.
And in our, in our culture andour society, I'm sure everyone
(29:45):
has heard a phrase like, Youthrow like a girl, you hit like
a girl, you're acting like sucha girl.
Stop being such a girl.
And we have this sort ofcollective subconscious
programming that to be a girl isinsulting.
And you say that to a boy andit's just like, Oh, you've given
them the worst insult.
And so as we grow up as girls,we get to be women and we think,
(30:09):
I don't want to be that.
So we.
We push away from the femininetraits that, that seem to make
us weak or less, or which arereally our greatest strengths,
our greatest gifts as women.
And, there's a study that I talkabout in the book in, it's from
the book, Leadership and theSexes.
And Barbara in that book, shedid research with hundreds Of
(30:31):
corporations and these bigcompanies and what they found
was that when companies weregender intelligent, meaning they
knew how to use the strengths ofmen and women, and they had
women in their upper management,their bottom line increased by
34%.
Any company that could get a 34percent gain on their bottom
(30:52):
line, I think would jump at thatchance to have that edge.
And that's sort of the feminineedge when we stand In the values
of the feminine, we trust ourhearts and we lean into the
emotional body that we have, theemotional wisdom that we have.
We bring that wherever we go, itcould be your kitchen table.
It doesn't have to be a boardtable, but we bring that value
(31:13):
and really understanding thevalue we bring.
And standing in that value is soimportant.
I used to Spend a lot of timesort of defending the feminine,
you know, and saying, girls arejust as good as boys, or women
are just as good as men, kind ofa thing.
And I read a quote one time fromCS Lewis and he talked about,
let's see if I can get it right.
(31:33):
I won't get it exactly right.
But the idea was that.
The person making the claim thatI'm as good as you doesn't
inherently believe itthemselves.
And he says that the St.
Bernard doesn't say it to thetoy dog, neither the scholar to
the dunce, neither theemployable to the bum, those
that make the claim to equalityin some way feel themselves to
be inferior.
(31:55):
And that really hit me if I knewmy value, I didn't feel the need
to prove it.
And if I was trying to prove myvalue to someone else, I didn't
inherently believe it in myself.
And so coming to reallyunderstand and know the sacred
value of our feminine nature andour feminine gifts, and being
able to really know and honorthat.
(32:17):
Part of that happened when I dida doula training, like a birth
assistant.
And I left that training.
I just.
felt such honor.
I just was like, wow, we arewomen and what an incredible
gift that is.
What a powerful thing that is tocreate, you know, whether it's a
human life or, uh, shiplap wallor a coil that we're, we are
(32:40):
creators and we have thisbeautiful essence in us to be
able to do that.
And so I kind of discussed thatat the start of the book, being
able to really understand thatvalue.
And then in the empoweredembodied, we talk about how do
we hold that in the feminine?
And, and I kind of make thepoint of the masculinist, if you
think of a house.
(33:00):
The masculine is sort of theframework that their roof and
the walls, that's the masculineis protective and it's strong
and it's structural and secure,but the feminine, at least in
the olden days would be theheart, that center of the home,
that was sort of the gatheringplace, it was the warmth, it was
the nourishment and people wouldgather around it and that's sort
of our, our feminine, space andso if you overlay that onto your
(33:24):
body, We spend a lot of time inour heads, the masculine sort of
held in the shoulders andthere's this push with it.
And so as women, when we spendall our time up here, it just
feels really different than whenyou just take a breath and you
just kind of sink down, sinkinto your heart and then sink
all the way down to your base.
Right to your very center.
(33:45):
It's the very center of ourbody, right where the womb is in
that space.
And I almost picture it like ananchor, just dropping to the
ocean floor, just like thisquiet little poof of sand and
the stillness and the quiet.
And when we can really sit intothat space, we become very
embodied within ourselves.
It's amazing what it does tojust to your eyes, to your
(34:09):
mannerisms, to your voice, evenit kind of brings more
groundedness and depth to yourvoice.
And so being able to reallysettle into ourselves, it's an
incredibly beautiful place tobe.
And it's something we don'treally understand.
How to do as women.
And so, because we've been socaught in, in our heads and
(34:30):
trying to be masculine.
So, and we kind of sink down toour heart and to our core,
that's when we can really tapinto the gifts that we have as
women.
And it's a beautiful, attractiveplace to be too.
And when you see someone in thatspace, it's like, who is she?
You know, you kind of want toknow her.
It gives you such a groundedpresence that, that people
(34:52):
notice it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (34:53):
Yes.
It's alluring just hearing aboutit.
I really do like the symbolismof the hearth, being the idea of
feminism, the hearth in thehome.
And then bringing that upon ourbody and explaining that between
the head and the shoulders anddown through the torso.
It makes me want to go, take oneof your sessions.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (35:15):
Yeah, that
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (35:17):
Yes.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (35:17):
there is a practice in the book that
guides you through how to reallydrop into that space.
And that's something I learnedfrom Rachel Jane Groover.
She has a book called Powerfuland Feminine, and she talks a
lot about the embodiment of thefeminine and being able to hold
that.
And I learned a lot from her.
And, that's another resource ifpeople are interested.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (35:36):
How do people find you?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13 (35:38):
Probably the easiest way.
Yeah.
The easiest way is on mywebsite.
She rise center.
com.
So she rise center, likesunrise, but only with she so
it's she rise center.
com and, on there, there's,there are some links.
I would love to have people, mynext step with my podcast is
(35:58):
being able to do some sessionsrecorded so other people can
benefit from them.
I remember as a girl, my momwould listen to Dr.
Laura Schlesinger and she wouldwork through things with people.
And I would, and we would learnfrom that kind of by proxy,
you're learning these ideas andthis awareness is coming.
And so anyone that would like todo, a free session and we'll
(36:22):
record that as a podcast and itcan be anonymous, you know, we
can keep it vague in general,but I love for other people to
be able to learn because so muchof us, we're going through a lot
of the same things and We feelpretty isolated usually, that's
an idea and a message that, thattends to keep us shut down and
locked into what we're goingthrough, but there is a phrase
that says, that which is mostpersonal is most universal.
(36:46):
And I believe that's true.
Most of the things we're goingthrough, lots of other people
are as well.
And so if we can share that andfind resolution and clarity,
it's going to help a lot ofpeople as well.
So that's one way, or there'sseveral podcasts, episodes that
people can listen to.
I've been shifting my work todoing more of like an eight week
(37:06):
coaching program to go througheach of the principles of the
book.
I actually just did a breathworkfacilitator training as well.
So I love to do, you know,breathwork sessions with people
as well.
So you can just reach out to me.
There's email or, yeah,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (37:22):
And, do people need to live close to you
or do you work with peoplethrough video also?
And if they do need to liveclose to you, where do they need
to live?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (37:31):
right.
I can do the breathwork.
I do feel like, is best inperson.
And so I spend time in WoodlandHills in Utah County and also in
St.
George in Southern Utah.
So I'm back and forth quite abit.
So in either of those locationswould be great.
The other work and the guidedmeditations and the practices we
can do, on Zoom or over thephone.
(37:54):
And I find it to be just aseffective.
because it's really about youconnecting to God and to kind of
that creating a space of yourown awareness and your own place
of light where people canconnect.
So I just try to help createspace for others, to connect
into that light and then theyget the answers they need.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (38:12):
I see.
And do you find about eightsessions is what most people
need.
I believe you said you haveabout an eight session, routine
is that right?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (38:21):
right.
This is something I'm justlaunching right now to kind of
correlate with the book toreally work through each of
those.
One on one to really deep diveinto those in your own personal
patterns, your own personallife, and really make some
changes.
And I think eight weeks is agreat amount of time.
It's not so long, but it's longenough that you can really see
results and, and you can getresults.
(38:43):
People come for one session andthey have gained a lot of
clarity on, the one issue thatthey came for the couple of
issues that they came for.
But, If you're really ready andyou just feel like I am ready to
change my core, I'm ready toreally shift my patterns to be
able to be who, who I'm meant tobe, then the eight weeks is just
a really good amount of time towork through each of those
(39:05):
principles and find your blindspots.
Sometimes you just need someoneelse.
You know, like it's almost likewe're seeing ourselves right up
close and, and it's difficult tosee all of the, the aspects of
us, but when someone else canstep back and just kind of give
you some guidance.
You know, and be able to really,I think of like Cinderella and
(39:26):
how she was a beautiful kind ofperson, even as a servant.
But when she got this fairygodmother that came in and just
kind of unlocked the potentialthat she had and gave her a
coach, to kind of get to thathigher place.
And, and I just, I would love tobe that, that very, goddess
mother, just to kind of help,help facilitate that.
(39:48):
Cause it's really, it is our owngrowth and our own learning and
we do it, but it's helpful tohave someone just.
To guide you along the way.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (39:58):
And it's comforting to hear from you that
so many of us have very similarproblems to work through.
We like to believe it's just ourproblem and, that makes us feel
even worse about the wholesituation, doesn't it?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (40:14):
right.
And it makes us want to cover itup.
Because we're embarrassedbecause why would we have such a
problem when no one else doesAnd it compounds the shame.
It compounds the guilt.
It compounds the failure.
And it's, I mean, it's a greattool of, those that don't want
us to succeed.
So,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (40:33):
Mm hmm, right, right.
So I appreciate you reminding usthat these problems are quite
universal okay So thank you fortelling us how we can find you
And, again, Heidi's book is TheGoddess Code, Seven Keys to
(40:54):
Unlock Your Divine FemininePotential.
We can read that alongsideworking with Heidi personally.
Heidi, thank you for joining ustoday.
It's been a pleasure having youwith us.
Thank you for taking us throughyour journey of your inspiration
to write this book.
You've been such an example ofcourage in actually writing the
(41:17):
book.
It's, that's a big step.
That's a big step.
I'm sure many of us out therehave that desire to write that
book.
It's in us, but we're not surewhere to start.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (41:28):
Right.
And thank you for having me.
When I first received thatimpression to write the book, it
was daunting and I talked to aneditor and I just wanted to cry.
It just seemed so overwhelmingand it took me a couple of years
I would encourage everyone.
I think every one of us has astory and has a book inside of
us.
Even if it doesn't touch anyoneelse's life, I feel like for me,
(41:50):
it has transformed, who I am.
And that's enough, even if it'sjust for our own sake that we do
it.
If it can reach anyone else,that's bonus.
That's amazing too.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (41:59):
Yes.
What an important point, even ifit's just to transform us and
leave a legacy for our family.
Yes.
That is important.
All right.
We all know how to reach Heidiand we will say goodbye and we
look forward to the time that wecan meet again.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (42:18):
Thank you so much.
Just thinking of us just waking up
(00:02):
and thinking, wait a second,what am I bound by?
Sometimes we're bound by otherpeople's opinions.
We're bound by duty.
Were bound by.
Cultural norms, we're bound byfear, where, lots of things are
binding us.
And if we can just shake offthose binds.
Stephanie test (00:22):
Welcome to Dear Daughters of God.
This is Stephanie Eccles, yourhost
This is episode 26, accepting mygoddess status, unlocking the
divine Feminine with HeidiDegraffenreid.
I am a retired school administrator
natural storyteller, and I am adaughter of God.
Now, I tell the stories
(00:43):
of our lives from theperspective
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Microphone (Samson Q2U (00:47):
Welcome, Dear Daughters of God.
I address you that way becausethat's what you are to Him.
To our Heavenly Father, you aredear
Hello, listeners, you may notrealize that this episode is on
YouTube.
Come watch this one.
Heidi and I are on screentogether in a heartfelt,
inspiring conversation you won'twant to miss.
(01:08):
Look up the channel, deardaughters of God, and this
episode accepting my goddessstatus.
I hope to see you there andthank you for listening.
Stephanie test (01:17):
Our guest today is Heidi Degraffenried, and
we're so glad to have her.
Heidi has written a book and I'mgoing to read to you a little
bit of the book that's inspiredme.
But first I want to introduceHeidi and then have her say
hello.
Heidi de Graafenreid is awomen's development expert with
(01:38):
more than 25 years experienceteaching women to gain self
awareness, trust in herguidance, and maximize their
greatest traits.
Her goal is to unlock the bestin women, to unlock the best in
society.
She is the author of The GoddessCode.
and host of The Goddess Codepodcast.
(02:00):
She's been married to herhusband, Jimmy, for 30 years.
And is the mother of six plusthree in law kids and grandma
Cookie to four adorablegrandkids.
She loves hiking, yoga, travel,art, and attempting Pinterest
projects.
I can relate to that attemptingPinterest projects, Heidi.
(02:24):
Welcome Heidi.
Thank you for joining us.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (02:26):
Thank you so much for having me,
Stephanie.
I'm delighted to be here and tospeak to your audience and the
beautiful daughters of God thatI know they are.
Stephanie test (02:34):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Well, I want to hear about theinspiration for writing this
book.
The goddess
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (02:42):
it was a long time coming.
It was the journey of life andin learning when I got married
very young.
I moved with my husband to thetown where he was attending
school and he was playingbasketball and he was very,
known in town everywhere wewent, people wanted to.
Talked to him and it was whenthey did it was if I wasn't even
(03:02):
there.
It's invisible and just on adaily basis I remember at the
birth of our first son I'mtrying to roll into a ball
during a contraction so theAnesthesiologist can do an
epidural and he's chatting withmy husband about basketball I
was a little angry about thatand honestly, my husband was a
little bit upset as well
Stephanie test (03:22):
I can see why.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (03:24):
It was always just that feeling of
who I was.
Wasn't important.
It didn't matter.
It was overlookable.
And so then I feel like I spentfrom that time, just poured
myself into trying to prove thatI mattered in some way, being
the best wife, the best mom, thebest friend, the best PTA lady,
the best church lady, whatever Icould do to prove my value.
(03:47):
And for probably about 15 years,I was in that state of just.
Trying to be and trying tomatter.
And I reached a point after thebirth of my sixth child,
probably a couple of monthsafter I was just wrecked.
I was miserable.
I was laying in bed and I wassick and I wasn't sure what was
wrong.
(04:08):
I had these pains in my abdomenthat just were weird.
They were unexplainable at thetime.
And I just remember thinking, Ifeel like I'm dying.
I thought I must have cancer orsome issues like that.
And I was having thisconversation with God and just
going through the scenario in mymind of leaving behind this
(04:28):
huge, Big young family and whatthat would mean to them.
And just the heartbreak of thatfor me to not be here as a part
of that.
And I, it came to a point ofsurrender where I just said, I
will be done.
And I felt that surrender.
And as my mind and heart quietedinto that, I felt the answer
(04:50):
come in my mind was almost likea question.
Really, even if my will is foryou to thrive and be happy.
And that kind of took me back.
I was like, come again.
I thought I was, I thought I wasdying.
I thought that was the will.
And the next part, he said.
(05:11):
You can continue down this sadpath that could lead to a sad
end, but that is not my will foryou.
My will is for you to thrive andbe happy.
And that was really, that was areally a turning point for me
that helped me to start to lookat what that meant to thrive.
And I had another vein runningthrough my life.
(05:33):
From my patriarchal blessing, ittalked about the gift of healing
and helping people heal throughthe principles of the gospel.
And so I had gone into massage,when I was 18, I went to massage
school and I was working withpeople through these years as
well.
And as I would do massage, Iwould.
Get these sort of impressions ofthings to say, or ideas that
would come and I would questionthose, but then just decided,
(05:53):
I'm just going to go with it andsee if it's God or not.
And so many times it was verymeaningful to people what was
shared.
And so I had that vein ofhealing and service to others
running through my life, but Idon't think I ever applied it to
myself.
And so as Heavenly Fatherstarted to teach me how to
(06:15):
thrive and how to live and I wasworking with other women.
So my own life and then theexperiences and the stories of
women, there were these patternsemerging.
And I started to see every womanjust needs to know these certain
principles, these certainconcepts that if we really
understood them, we couldthrive.
and so that is where the bookcame from.
(06:35):
It's just these patterns ofthese concepts and principles
that, that really, once weunderstand them and really
embody and embrace them aswomen, our lives are beautiful.
They're amazing.
So that's the context of.
The beginning of that,
Stephanie test (06:50):
Okay, so it wasn't cancer.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (06:53):
it will be cancer,
Stephanie test (06:54):
It was instead you were going to be thriving,
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (06:57):
right?
Stephanie test (06:58):
right?
What an opposite effect
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (07:02):
And there were some physical issues
that I have had to work throughbut it wasn't so much of it was
the emotional side of it.
The lack of self regard that, Iwas burning myself out so much
because I was trying to makeeveryone else happy that I just,
I was exhausted.
Stephanie test (07:20):
And you started seeing this in other women as
well, this similar pattern intheir life.
Being blessed with inspirationto help them through it and
wondering, should I say it?
Should I not?
And then you would, and itsounds like you were learning
more by trusting yourself and bysaying it.
(07:43):
Yeah.
And trusting that it was okay ifI got it wrong.
When we get things wrong, westill learn and that's how we
learn, how God speaks to us isjust.
Speaking it and seeing, how itlands.
And I actually did have anexperience one time where it did
not land well, and it was reallypainful for me.
(08:04):
And I took that to heavenlyfather after, and I was like,
what was that?
I feel like I said what youwanted me to say, and it didn't
land well.
And I just felt like he said,that's not your responsibility.
You said what I wanted you tosay.
It just, it wasn't received, butthat's not your job.
Your job is just to speak it andlet the rest be.
(08:26):
I bet that was a difficult,awkward moment.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (08:29):
It was, but also a good lesson,
that we're not always going tobe well received by everyone.
But if our heart is in line withGod, that's really all we can
seek to be.
Stephanie test (08:40):
Yes.
But like you said the lessonthat you really needed was to
give it and, you can't control.
How it's received.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (08:49):
Right.
Stephanie test (08:50):
Oh, okay.
What was there a scripture, acertain scripture or a scripture
story that inspired you duringthis time when you were
basically given theunderstanding that no, you're
not going to be sick.
Matter of fact, you're going tothrive and be happy.
That's what I want.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (09:09):
There was a couple stories.
The one that really was thebeginning of the book, it is in
Isaiah, 52 and he says,
Stephanie test (09:20):
Is this the one that relates to the part that's
so poetic?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (09:23):
Yeah.
Stephanie test (09:24):
Oh, can I read that first?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024 (09:26):
absolutely.
Stephanie test (09:27):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, Heidi.
I think our listeners will findthis so inspirational.
This was right in theintroduction and Heidi's words
were so poetic.
I highlighted it right on pagefour.
It says this.
Quote, she suddenly wakes andsees she has been bound and held
(09:47):
as a slave and didn't realize ituntil that moment she rises and
unties herself from the bandsthat have tethered her unquote.
Okay, go ahead.
Thank you, Heidi.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (10:01):
So in that scripture, he, he says,
awake, awake, put on mystrength, O Zion, put on my
beautiful garments.
And then in verse two, he says,shake thyself from the dust,
arise and sit down, O Jerusalem,loose thyself from the bands of
thy neck, O captive daughter ofZion.
(10:22):
Just the visual of that is, iswhat I put in the book.
Just thinking of us just wakingup and thinking, wait a second,
what am I bound by?
Sometimes we're bound by otherpeople's opinions.
We're bound by duty.
Were bound by.
Cultural norms, we're bound byfear, where, lots of things are
binding us.
And if we can just shake offthose binds.
(10:45):
And then when he says arise andsit down, I picture that as
almost like a queen, arising andbeing heralded as the queen and
then sitting on her throne andtaking her place.
And, so as we loose ourself fromthese bands, we become free and
we become the daughters that,that were meant to be,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:09):
when we lose ourselves from the bands of
what other people believe weshould be.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (11:14):
right,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:16):
I see.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (11:16):
or anything.
It could be what we think weshould be as
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:19):
Or what we think.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13 (11:20):
Anything that binds us, that is not true.
It's usually just untruth thatbinds us in some form.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (11:27):
I see.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (11:27):
There is one in Corinthians that at
that time when I was trying tofigure out my work and myself
and find that validation, I wasa little bit, Irritated, maybe
is a good word at HeavenlyFather, just feeling like why
couldn't I have cool gifts?
So why couldn't I have thingslike singing or, sports or
(11:51):
performance?
Something that people, thatother people really value and
understand.
And, and I took it to God and Iwas maybe challenging Him a
little bit.
And I just happened to flip openmy scriptures.
And still to this day, wheneverI just flip my scriptures open,
it lands on this page.
But it's 1 Corinthians 15, 10,and it says, By the grace of
(12:14):
God, I am what I am, and Hisgrace which was bestowed upon me
was not in vain.
But I labored more abundantlythan they all, yet not I, but
the grace of God, which was withme.
And I just, when, when I readthat first line by the grace of
God, I am what I am.
It just hit me that who I am iswho God made me to be.
(12:35):
And it's his grace that allowsme to be who I am.
And instead of wishing for.
Other things than what I am tojust really labor abundantly in
them and use them and not letthem be in vain.
Just use them for wherever andhowever they are a value to,
others and to myself and tohumanity.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (12:54):
Yes.
It's beautiful.
Beautiful.
I'm so glad you came to thatunderstanding.
Yes.
Okay.
Now that we understand theinspiration for your book, how
you came to it to finally writeit, because I know it took a
while.
It was in your mind brewing forquite some time until you got it
on paper.
And so now why don't you tell usactually about the book?
(13:18):
the goddess code.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (13:20):
okay, well, I started out with 40
different principles and my, my,My operators were like, it's
just a lot.
I can't keep it.
I can't keep track of it, sothen I cut it to 30, like three
categories of 10 and it just, itwas just too much.
I think really that's one thing.
And in just sharing is to findthe most essential.
(13:45):
And it paired back to, the ideacame for an acronym with goddess
and those seven, so there'sseven key concepts that go along
with that as an acronym togoddess and, and so each of them
have just a different principle,a different idea and a different
practice to go with that to helpus get to where we can embody
(14:05):
and use that, so,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (14:07):
Okay.
So each letter stands is anacronym.
Tell us about the G then.
That's probably a very importantone.
It's the first one.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (14:15):
Yeah, the G is, it stands for the
girlfriend rule and, it, it isprobably the one that when
people talk to me about thebook, I've gotten the most
feedback on that, that it's beenso impactful for people because
I think as women, we are notvery good.
At being kind to ourselves.
And, when you think about, yourbest friend, your best
(14:37):
girlfriend coming to you andtelling you about just a
horrible experience she had, andshe's so ashamed or she's so
embarrassed and how you respondto her and the love and the
support, the encouragement, theempathy that you show her.
And then you compare that toyourself when you're in that
situation where you'reembarrassed and you're ashamed
and how you respond to yourself.
(14:57):
Is usually incredibly different
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (14:59):
Yeah.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (15:01):
if you had used that response on
your friend, there's a goodchance.
You wouldn't still be friendsand so I think that,
Understanding the compassionthat we give ourselves is so
powerful.
There's a book called the selfcompassion workbook by Kristen
Neff.
And in that she talks about how,I think part of the reason we
don't give ourselves compassionis because we think if we do,
(15:23):
we'll just slack and we won'tcontinue to grow and progress.
But in that she talks about howself compassionate people, are
usually, they're usually moreresilient.
They're usually.
Not as hard on themselves whenthey fail, they're more willing
to try again after they fail andthey do find more success and
happiness measurably overall.
And so it's not actually truethat we need to kind of prod and
(15:47):
beat ourselves up to becomebetter in that compassion.
We actually.
Do become better.
And this was a huge shift tokind of a turning point in my
life as well.
Like when I could, this was agame changer for me when I
really learned to supportmyself.
It's like, if you think ofyourself as a cell phone for a
minute when we tear ourselvesdown, it's running our battery
(16:08):
down, so we get really low.
Then we look to other people tobuild us up again and kind of be
the charger for us, kind ofrecharge us I don't know about
you, but I hate when people wantto borrow my charger.
I'm very protective of my phonecharger.
I think it's, it's just muchmore efficient and effective to
have our own charge, to be ableto charge ourselves up and to
(16:30):
supply that for ourselves withthat compassion and that love.
And it's not necessary to tearourselves down the way that we
generally do, especially aswomen, we tend to be harder on
ourselves than anyone else wewould never talk to anyone else
the way we talk to ourselves.
And so just turning that aroundand really learning to have
compassion for yourself.
(16:51):
I remember the first time I didthis, my husband and I were in
this kind of couples Olympics.
We were doing all thesedifferent sporting events, which
I'm not a great athlete and heis.
And I just always felt like Iwas letting him down because I
wasn't succeeding at these.
And we were playing a volleyballgame and I was just like, You
can do this, Heidi.
You can do it.
(17:11):
I'm, I believe in you.
You can do it.
And I felt that sort ofsupporting of myself and it
lifted me and it helped me tostay focused and it helped me to
do what I needed to do.
And we actually ended up winningthe game and I was like, yay,
good job, Heidi.
You stayed in it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (17:27):
You did it.
You did it.
It was that, compassionate waywith yourself that helped.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (17:33):
Yeah.
And I just think in so manyareas, when we can be
compassionate to ourselves, wejust, we can relax, we can
settle into our lives so muchmore and truly become who we're
meant to be instead of juststaying restricted and
constricted all the time, likethe shame and the guilt tend to
do to us.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (17:54):
Yes.
I agree with you.
I remember when I was, first,getting migraines at, when I was
executive director of Excelsiorschools and, it was very hard to
keep up with the work week,having daily migraines.
I was aware of this importanceof self compassion and.
(18:14):
I've started to use it more thanI ever had in my life, just
because I knew, I, I think itwas like, an emergency type
trigger turned on.
It was like, use it or, or, You,you won't make it.
So I would just say to myself, Icall myself sweetheart to try to
(18:35):
make it through the day.
And I compliment myself on thesimplest things because I knew
how difficult it was for me tomake it with these migraines
doing my daily work.
So I can relate to that havingbeen through something unusual
and very difficult in my life.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (18:54):
I love that you refer to yourself
as sweetheart because it'salmost, a maternal sort of
phrase and, and there's so manytimes in our lives when, when we
do feel there's, there, that's aquestion I will have people ask.
How old do you feel in this?
And when they, you know, maybeit's like six or three or 12
and, and to be able to meetyourself with that kind of
(19:16):
compassion and love as a mom,your own mother, your own
parent, it is so powerful aswell.
And just that is such a tenderphrase and example.
I love that.
Thanks for sharing that with me.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (19:28):
Yes.
It, it's kind of like a motherlyphrase, isn't it?
And I think that's why I wasusing it because I felt so,
vulnerable at that time.
So vulnerable.
Okay.
What about the o?
The o Is, is that one of the, Iknow they're all important
acronyms, but is, is that thenext one you would choose to, to
(19:49):
describe for us?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (19:50):
think so, because the O to me is sort
of a master key and it standsfor open connection, which is an
open connection with God orsource or divine.
I don't think it really mattersthe name you use.
It's just having that connectionand knowing that you.
are loved and valued by someonehigher than yourself, someone
(20:11):
bigger than yourself.
And that, that there's supportthere that, that we can lean on
and lean into from a heavenlysource.
And a lot of people, theirrelationship with God is wounded
because We tend to connect our,relationship with our parents to
a relationship with heavenlyparents.
We tend to overlap some of theissues on those and, or maybe
(20:35):
you've been taught in a waythat, God is punishing or God is
angry God, or, you know,whatever it might be that, that
the learning and theconditioning that you were given
was that it wasn't a safe place.
And so I think being able toreally open that connection and
feel into the safety of that, Iactually have one of my podcasts
(20:56):
is a meditation that guidespeople into just opening the
connection and bringing thatlight and love into every part
of their body.
And that's how I start mysessions as well, is just by,
bringing in, opening thatconnection and that love and
allowing it to flow and.
One thing I've learned is thatwe sit like fish in water with,
(21:16):
with God's love.
It's always around us.
He never withdraws his love fromus.
It's us that sort of covers theconnection and closes that
channel.
And so it's like, if you take adish and it has a lid on it and
you stick it into a bowl ofwater, you can submerge it all
the way, but it still doesn'tfill.
(21:37):
With the water until you takethe lid off and then you
submerge that dish, it willimmediately fill with water.
And that's how I feel like ourguilt, our shame, our feeling
like we have to earn God's love.
Feeling like our past or feelingbroken, a lot of things will
cause us to put the lid on.
And so just realizing there isno limit to God's love.
(22:01):
There's nothing that, can keepyou from being loved by him.
And so just opening yourself tothat is the best way to make it
through any experience, even ifyou've messed up in something,
even if you're in a situation ofyour own making that's
difficult, it's still by openingthat connection that you will
find your way through it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (22:22):
So, it's referring to prayer, if you
will, right?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (22:25):
right.
But I feel like you can pray andstill not open the connection.
It's almost more of like amindful allowing or receiving of
God's love to Let it into yourheart and your mind.
And we, as women are not verygood at receiving.
(22:46):
We tend to give and give, butit's like our heart.
If you only pumped the blood outof your heart and you never
allow it to come back, eitherway you cut it off, you will not
live.
And so I think it's that sameidea.
Just opening yourself to receiveand feel the love and allowing
yourself to feel it.
In prayer, in meditation, injust being still and listening.
(23:09):
Sometimes in journaling, I'llsit and write just whatever
words come.
I'll just write it a word at atime without thinking ahead of
time.
And just write out.
I've gotten such beautifulanswers that way, just by
opening my willingness toreceive from God.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (23:24):
I see it.
I see it now.
Yes.
Taking that time to, listen, tofeel, to reflect what, the
spirit is saying to us.
But Heavenly Father wants us toknow from Him.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (23:40):
Think we all sort of stand as a
person.
A radio receiver, we all sort ofhave the capacity to receive
that the messages, theinspiration, the understanding
from God, it's just, sometimeswe're not tuned in, you know,
like, the old dial radios whereyou had to really tune in to,
understand it.
Or to hear the songs, I thinkit's the same.
(24:03):
We just have to really tune ourheart and tune our mind to pick
up the receiving end of thatbroadcast.
And it's there.
It's always there.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:14):
It took me a while to understand how to do
that within my scripturereading.
I was better at doing that inprayer, and I would hear about
people doing that while inscripture reading.
But I eventually learned how todo that myself while in
scripture reading.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (24:31):
Mm
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:31):
And I did learn to do that when Come
Follow Him.
I learned how to do thatproficiently or, proficiently
was too strong a word.
Better, better.
When Come Follow Me, thecurriculum became available to
us.
that has really opened up doorsto my, insights when I was able
to understand what the Lord wastelling me through scriptures in
(24:54):
addition to my prayers.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (24:57):
hmm.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (24:58):
Yeah.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (24:59):
Yeah, that's exactly how he spoke to
me with, that time with theCorinthian scripture.
It was just right there and justflipping open my scriptures and,
you know, kind of having hiswords right there speak to me
and then trusting what yourheart tells you in that moment
That he is speaking to you and Ilove that you've gotten
proficient in that.
I'm sure you have.
(25:19):
I'm going to give you that wordbecause did
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (25:27):
I'm not proficiently by any means, but
it's an education word.
So I say it out of habit, butI'm better and I need to give
credit to Melanie Wellman.
She had a podcast or she stillhas follow him.
Come follow him for us.
And she taught everyone how todo it from the way her mission
president taught hismissionaries.
(25:49):
That's where I learned how to,practice daily in receiving
messages from the spirit throughthe scriptures.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (25:57):
They have specific steps?
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (25:59):
Okay.
Well, I will just lay it out andsee if I get it right.
She'll have to correct me if Iget it wrong.
Okay.
You, you lay out a block of timerather than a set of scriptures,
rather than saying, I'm going toread one chapter, or I'm going
to read five verses, rather thanthat, lay out a block of time
for your scripture reading.
(26:19):
Like I'm going to read for 20minutes, And whether it's one
scripture or five, it's 10verses or one chapter.
That doesn't matter.
It's just your block of time.
You start with that block oftime and then you start with
prayer and you ask Heavenlyfather to bless you as you read
the scriptures, with his spiritto speak to you through the
(26:42):
scriptures.
And if you can, take the time torepent in that prayer, then as
you begin to read, havesomething to write with.
So I got myself a littlescripture journal.
And then as you read, if you ifyou begin to fill the spirit,
anytime you fill the spirit,stop and write down the very
(27:05):
scripture verbatim that in whichyou fill the spirit, just write
it down.
Word for word.
After you're done writing itdown, more thoughts.
May come to you.
Write those thoughts down.
That's, that's the spiritrevealing to you what it is.
(27:27):
Maybe thoughts won't come toyou, but much of the time
thoughts will come to you.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134 (27:31):
Mm-Hmm.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (27:32):
Write those thoughts down.
It is surprising to me whatthoughts will come to me after
writing down the scriptureverbatim.
Then at the end of thosethoughts, I've always learned a
lesson and Then I go back to myscripture reading unless my time
is over at the end of myscriptures reading.
Then you're supposed to end withprayer and thank heavenly father
(27:55):
for being with you and for, forthat time.
Sometimes there's times where Idon't feel the spirit and I
don't write down, but.
More often than not, I do feelthe Spirit, and I do write down
a scripture verbatim.
And more often than not, thatleads to me writing more on that
scripture than just thescripture itself.
(28:19):
And it leads to a life lesson.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (28:21):
I love that.
And I love the idea of therepenting, sort of the
releasing.
I feel like repentance and sin,sin is a constriction.
It's sort of a tension withinour system.
And repentance is a relaxing areleasing of that tension.
And so putting yourself in thatposition where you can relax and
(28:42):
release the tension allows youto open up that connection as
well.
And I think that's such abeautiful way to do it.
And I love having steps likethat because sometimes our
conscious mind is like, but Idon't know how, or I need to
know how.
And so it's beautiful to givethose steps.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (28:58):
Yes.
That's a good point, Heidi.
That's a very good point.
Yes.
And I better say, she's marriednow and married again.
Her name is Melanie WellmanStroud.
give her credit and give hercorrect name.
And it was her missionpresident, I don't know his
name, that taught hismissionaries how to do that.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_134949 (29:16):
What a gift.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (29:18):
All right.
Is there another acronym you'dlike to share with us from the
Goddess Code?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (29:23):
Well, part of the, the E stands for
empowered and embodied.
And part of that understandingto really be able to stand in
the embodiment of the feminine,has to do with understanding the
value of the feminine.
And in our, in our culture andour society, I'm sure everyone
(29:45):
has heard a phrase like, Youthrow like a girl, you hit like
a girl, you're acting like sucha girl.
Stop being such a girl.
And we have this sort ofcollective subconscious
programming that to be a girl isinsulting.
And you say that to a boy andit's just like, Oh, you've given
them the worst insult.
And so as we grow up as girls,we get to be women and we think,
(30:09):
I don't want to be that.
So we.
We push away from the femininetraits that, that seem to make
us weak or less, or which arereally our greatest strengths,
our greatest gifts as women.
And, there's a study that I talkabout in the book in, it's from
the book, Leadership and theSexes.
And Barbara in that book, shedid research with hundreds Of
(30:31):
corporations and these bigcompanies and what they found
was that when companies weregender intelligent, meaning they
knew how to use the strengths ofmen and women, and they had
women in their upper management,their bottom line increased by
34%.
Any company that could get a 34percent gain on their bottom
(30:52):
line, I think would jump at thatchance to have that edge.
And that's sort of the feminineedge when we stand In the values
of the feminine, we trust ourhearts and we lean into the
emotional body that we have, theemotional wisdom that we have.
We bring that wherever we go, itcould be your kitchen table.
It doesn't have to be a boardtable, but we bring that value
(31:13):
and really understanding thevalue we bring.
And standing in that value is soimportant.
I used to Spend a lot of timesort of defending the feminine,
you know, and saying, girls arejust as good as boys, or women
are just as good as men, kind ofa thing.
And I read a quote one time fromCS Lewis and he talked about,
let's see if I can get it right.
(31:33):
I won't get it exactly right.
But the idea was that.
The person making the claim thatI'm as good as you doesn't
inherently believe itthemselves.
And he says that the St.
Bernard doesn't say it to thetoy dog, neither the scholar to
the dunce, neither theemployable to the bum, those
that make the claim to equalityin some way feel themselves to
be inferior.
(31:55):
And that really hit me if I knewmy value, I didn't feel the need
to prove it.
And if I was trying to prove myvalue to someone else, I didn't
inherently believe it in myself.
And so coming to reallyunderstand and know the sacred
value of our feminine nature andour feminine gifts, and being
able to really know and honorthat.
(32:17):
Part of that happened when I dida doula training, like a birth
assistant.
And I left that training.
I just.
felt such honor.
I just was like, wow, we arewomen and what an incredible
gift that is.
What a powerful thing that is tocreate, you know, whether it's a
human life or, uh, shiplap wallor a coil that we're, we are
(32:40):
creators and we have thisbeautiful essence in us to be
able to do that.
And so I kind of discussed thatat the start of the book, being
able to really understand thatvalue.
And then in the empoweredembodied, we talk about how do
we hold that in the feminine?
And, and I kind of make thepoint of the masculinist, if you
think of a house.
(33:00):
The masculine is sort of theframework that their roof and
the walls, that's the masculineis protective and it's strong
and it's structural and secure,but the feminine, at least in
the olden days would be theheart, that center of the home,
that was sort of the gatheringplace, it was the warmth, it was
the nourishment and people wouldgather around it and that's sort
of our, our feminine, space andso if you overlay that onto your
(33:24):
body, We spend a lot of time inour heads, the masculine sort of
held in the shoulders andthere's this push with it.
And so as women, when we spendall our time up here, it just
feels really different than whenyou just take a breath and you
just kind of sink down, sinkinto your heart and then sink
all the way down to your base.
Right to your very center.
(33:45):
It's the very center of ourbody, right where the womb is in
that space.
And I almost picture it like ananchor, just dropping to the
ocean floor, just like thisquiet little poof of sand and
the stillness and the quiet.
And when we can really sit intothat space, we become very
embodied within ourselves.
It's amazing what it does tojust to your eyes, to your
(34:09):
mannerisms, to your voice, evenit kind of brings more
groundedness and depth to yourvoice.
And so being able to reallysettle into ourselves, it's an
incredibly beautiful place tobe.
And it's something we don'treally understand.
How to do as women.
And so, because we've been socaught in, in our heads and
(34:30):
trying to be masculine.
So, and we kind of sink down toour heart and to our core,
that's when we can really tapinto the gifts that we have as
women.
And it's a beautiful, attractiveplace to be too.
And when you see someone in thatspace, it's like, who is she?
You know, you kind of want toknow her.
It gives you such a groundedpresence that, that people
(34:52):
notice it.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (34:53):
Yes.
It's alluring just hearing aboutit.
I really do like the symbolismof the hearth, being the idea of
feminism, the hearth in thehome.
And then bringing that upon ourbody and explaining that between
the head and the shoulders anddown through the torso.
It makes me want to go, take oneof your sessions.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (35:15):
Yeah, that
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (35:17):
Yes.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (35:17):
there is a practice in the book that
guides you through how to reallydrop into that space.
And that's something I learnedfrom Rachel Jane Groover.
She has a book called Powerfuland Feminine, and she talks a
lot about the embodiment of thefeminine and being able to hold
that.
And I learned a lot from her.
And, that's another resource ifpeople are interested.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (35:36):
How do people find you?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13 (35:38):
Probably the easiest way.
Yeah.
The easiest way is on mywebsite.
She rise center.
com.
So she rise center, likesunrise, but only with she so
it's she rise center.
com and, on there, there's,there are some links.
I would love to have people, mynext step with my podcast is
(35:58):
being able to do some sessionsrecorded so other people can
benefit from them.
I remember as a girl, my momwould listen to Dr.
Laura Schlesinger and she wouldwork through things with people.
And I would, and we would learnfrom that kind of by proxy,
you're learning these ideas andthis awareness is coming.
And so anyone that would like todo, a free session and we'll
(36:22):
record that as a podcast and itcan be anonymous, you know, we
can keep it vague in general,but I love for other people to
be able to learn because so muchof us, we're going through a lot
of the same things and We feelpretty isolated usually, that's
an idea and a message that, thattends to keep us shut down and
locked into what we're goingthrough, but there is a phrase
that says, that which is mostpersonal is most universal.
(36:46):
And I believe that's true.
Most of the things we're goingthrough, lots of other people
are as well.
And so if we can share that andfind resolution and clarity,
it's going to help a lot ofpeople as well.
So that's one way, or there'sseveral podcasts, episodes that
people can listen to.
I've been shifting my work todoing more of like an eight week
(37:06):
coaching program to go througheach of the principles of the
book.
I actually just did a breathworkfacilitator training as well.
So I love to do, you know,breathwork sessions with people
as well.
So you can just reach out to me.
There's email or, yeah,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (37:22):
And, do people need to live close to you
or do you work with peoplethrough video also?
And if they do need to liveclose to you, where do they need
to live?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (37:31):
right.
I can do the breathwork.
I do feel like, is best inperson.
And so I spend time in WoodlandHills in Utah County and also in
St.
George in Southern Utah.
So I'm back and forth quite abit.
So in either of those locationswould be great.
The other work and the guidedmeditations and the practices we
can do, on Zoom or over thephone.
(37:54):
And I find it to be just aseffective.
because it's really about youconnecting to God and to kind of
that creating a space of yourown awareness and your own place
of light where people canconnect.
So I just try to help createspace for others, to connect
into that light and then theyget the answers they need.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (38:12):
I see.
And do you find about eightsessions is what most people
need.
I believe you said you haveabout an eight session, routine
is that right?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (38:21):
right.
This is something I'm justlaunching right now to kind of
correlate with the book toreally work through each of
those.
One on one to really deep diveinto those in your own personal
patterns, your own personallife, and really make some
changes.
And I think eight weeks is agreat amount of time.
It's not so long, but it's longenough that you can really see
results and, and you can getresults.
(38:43):
People come for one session andthey have gained a lot of
clarity on, the one issue thatthey came for the couple of
issues that they came for.
But, If you're really ready andyou just feel like I am ready to
change my core, I'm ready toreally shift my patterns to be
able to be who, who I'm meant tobe, then the eight weeks is just
a really good amount of time towork through each of those
(39:05):
principles and find your blindspots.
Sometimes you just need someoneelse.
You know, like it's almost likewe're seeing ourselves right up
close and, and it's difficult tosee all of the, the aspects of
us, but when someone else canstep back and just kind of give
you some guidance.
You know, and be able to really,I think of like Cinderella and
(39:26):
how she was a beautiful kind ofperson, even as a servant.
But when she got this fairygodmother that came in and just
kind of unlocked the potentialthat she had and gave her a
coach, to kind of get to thathigher place.
And, and I just, I would love tobe that, that very, goddess
mother, just to kind of help,help facilitate that.
(39:48):
Cause it's really, it is our owngrowth and our own learning and
we do it, but it's helpful tohave someone just.
To guide you along the way.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (39:58):
And it's comforting to hear from you that
so many of us have very similarproblems to work through.
We like to believe it's just ourproblem and, that makes us feel
even worse about the wholesituation, doesn't it?
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (40:14):
right.
And it makes us want to cover itup.
Because we're embarrassedbecause why would we have such a
problem when no one else doesAnd it compounds the shame.
It compounds the guilt.
It compounds the failure.
And it's, I mean, it's a greattool of, those that don't want
us to succeed.
So,
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (40:33):
Mm hmm, right, right.
So I appreciate you reminding usthat these problems are quite
universal okay So thank you fortelling us how we can find you
And, again, Heidi's book is TheGoddess Code, Seven Keys to
(40:54):
Unlock Your Divine FemininePotential.
We can read that alongsideworking with Heidi personally.
Heidi, thank you for joining ustoday.
It's been a pleasure having youwith us.
Thank you for taking us throughyour journey of your inspiration
to write this book.
You've been such an example ofcourage in actually writing the
(41:17):
book.
It's, that's a big step.
That's a big step.
I'm sure many of us out therehave that desire to write that
book.
It's in us, but we're not surewhere to start.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_1349 (41:28):
Right.
And thank you for having me.
When I first received thatimpression to write the book, it
was daunting and I talked to aneditor and I just wanted to cry.
It just seemed so overwhelmingand it took me a couple of years
I would encourage everyone.
I think every one of us has astory and has a book inside of
us.
Even if it doesn't touch anyoneelse's life, I feel like for me,
(41:50):
it has transformed, who I am.
And that's enough, even if it'sjust for our own sake that we do
it.
If it can reach anyone else,that's bonus.
That's amazing too.
_1_04-30-2024_135047 (41:59):
Yes.
What an important point, even ifit's just to transform us and
leave a legacy for our family.
Yes.
That is important.
All right.
We all know how to reach Heidiand we will say goodbye and we
look forward to the time that wecan meet again.
heidi-_1_04-30-2024_13494 (42:18):
Thank you so much.
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