Dear Horse World, It’s Dr. Alberto Rullan: The Future of Healing Is Here—But is the Industry Ready?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We're talking about 600% moreoxygen dissolved in the plasma

(00:04):
after the hyperbaric chamber, 600%.
So now we all know that oxygencan help all those cells reproduce
and fill in faster when your horse
gets injured.
The path.
Is predictable.
Call the vet, follow the textbooktreatment, hope for the best.

(00:27):
But what if the future of healing isn'tin prescriptions or routine protocols,
but in something far more powerful?
For decades, regenerative therapieslike stem cells, ozone therapy, and
PRP have transformed human medicine.
Yet in the horse world, they'vebeen met with resistance,

(00:48):
skepticism, and industry pushback.
Dr. Alberto Ruan knows this fightfirsthand after witnessing his brother
survive cancer, thanks to experimentalstem cell therapy, he made it his mission
to bring these life-changing treatments.
To equine care and the results,nothing short of revolutionary.

(01:13):
So why aren't these therapies mainstream?
And what could they meanfor your horse's future?
Stay with us because today we'resharing what's possible when we
break free from outdated systemsand demand better for our horses.
Dear horse world is the Roberto Lan.

(01:37):
Alberto, welcome to theDear Horse World Podcast.
Thank you.
I'm extremely excited tobe here with you, Noel.
I'm extremely excited because before westarted recording, you said something
that always gets me really excited.
Yeah.
Which you said, yeah.
Let's stir things up.
Absolutely.
That's my specialty.
Stirring things up, bringingit on, revolutionizing.

(01:58):
So I'm gonna read something fromyour regenerative therapies book.
I thought, I thought thatwould kind of kick us off.
Okay.
'cause it really, it, itperked my ears when I read it.
Got it.
Innovative equine regenerativetherapies are the need of the
hour to save horses from gettingoverloaded with pharmaceutical agents.

(02:19):
There are so many reasonsto adopt such therapies.
It is actually the ethical responsibilityof clinicians to not only treat patients
with strong dosages of drugs, but tofind innovative solutions which are less
harmful and more safe for the whole body.

(02:39):
Many times, due to a lack of availabilityof the latest therapies, patients
couldn't be saved, kept alive.
This is of great concern.
Amen.
Sounds like I wrote that.
Yeah.
Okay.
What made you wanna write that?
Yeah, let me, let me give you a, alittle background on, on my story.

(03:01):
Everything I do has some sort ofbackstory of where I have learned
it and it's usually because somesort of, not traumatic event, but
extremely traumatic event usually.
So this particular one, um, dates backto when I graduated veterinary school.
All my life I grew up with,with, uh, my brother William.

(03:25):
And we were inseparable.
So when I went to vet school, he was stillin back in Puerto Rico and he used to come
with me on the summers and train to, forthe end goal to open a clinic together.
So when we moved to Florida thatwe were reaching our, reaching

(03:47):
our goal, we were hitting wallafter wall because it was in 2000.
Seven.
And if you and the audience,remember in 2008, everything started?
Yeah.
An eight point war.
We had huge
crisis.
Yeah.
My main focus was lameness andlaminitis, and we couldn't treat
patients because most of them wereunfortunately, we put to sleep.

(04:11):
Whoa.
Back in the days.
Back in those days.
Then we, my brother and I started,um, we started our endeavor in
treating layman and laminitis.
However, my brother one day gotkicked by a horse and that kick we

(04:32):
get kicked by horse commonly, right?
Yeah.
So we didn't think much of it.
However, he started showing some strangesymptoms and his leg kept getting.
Blacker rather than better, andthen started to get, uh, yellow.
We didn't think much of it, so he keptworking just like any horse person.

(04:53):
Takes some ibuprofen.
Yeah, and that's it.
Went to the doctor.
The doctor said, here's somemore pills, and kept going.
Several days later or weekslater, he's still feeling sick.
He's starting now to cough and he'sstarting now to have nasal discharge.
So went to the doctor again andthe doctor gave him steroids.

(05:18):
Then he went back home.
Now he's in steroids plus,uh, some antibiotics.
Yeah, plus some more drugs and,and a pile of medicines, right?
Like pain medication.
Yes.
Several weeks later, or dayslater now, he's starting to get
very tired and we are like, okay,let's go to the emergency room.
They started doing bloodand it happens that he's.

(05:41):
Blood cells, his red blood cells weredropping like crazy, and he needed an
emergency transfusion out of the blue.
He needed now a, aemergency blood transfusion.
Then after that,
they started doing tests.
No one could have, no, no one found out,could find out what was wrong with my
brother, and it was 22 at the moment.

(06:03):
And I never forget this day at thehospital, in the elevator, the doctor
came and stop us and says, Hey, we knownow that your brother had leukemia.
So, yeah, so he was then diagnosedwith leukemia at that moment
and just couldn't believe it.
Right.
And she left it up to meto go tell him that he had

(06:27):
leukemia and the word came out.
To a halt, to an end, howeveryou wanna call it at the moment.
I was, uh, at the moment,we, I was with my mom.
The next a hundred days we spendit at the hospital thinking
that my brother was gonna die.
However, several weeks later,another doctor came in, which,

(06:48):
by the way, I transferred.
I requested an immediatetransfer from that hospital.
Yeah.
Because I, I, I didn't like the approach.
Right?
Yeah.
So we requested transfer to anotherhospital and another doctor came,
Hey, your brother qualified for anexperimental study with stem cells.
And right there we were all in.

(07:09):
Yeah.
We
were like, we didn't even think about it.
Yeah.
'cause now we are, we, we have some hope.
Yeah.
And several weeks later, severalmonths later, he was cancer free.
What?
Yeah.
And we started working againand we build a practice.
I. Based on that story and, andthis experience, we are like, okay,

(07:30):
so now we're gonna use alternativetherapies such as surrogate negative
therapies and stem cells and others.
Yeah.
To treat our patients, we wantto ensure that our patients
get the most out of this.
Now let me, let me tell you beforethat stem cells used to be a taboo.

(07:51):
The stem cells were not well accepted.
And why is that?
Back in the days, they used tothink they came from, i, I think
that they used to think that we hadto kill babies to get stem cells.
There was a big, there was a bigcontroversy with stem cell research
and where they were coming from.
Well,
and we live in a world of a lot ofinformation and a lot of misinformation.

(08:14):
Correct.
So as a veterinarian, when I wasin school, I knew about stem cells
and we were using a lot of stemcells with, with great success,
but in the human, it was not that.
Well accepted yet.
And when we got into this experimentalstudy and they worked so well, then after
that we pretty much base our practice on,on alternative and radiative therapies.

(08:37):
It was clear that he was gettingdrug after drug after drug, rather
than getting a proper diagnosis.
Right.
So we base our practice on diagnosing,diagnosing, figuring out what's going
on with the problem or what the problemis, and then treating our patients.
And yes, we do still practice a lotof, uh, what we call western medicine

(08:59):
because a lot of clients are still havingresistant these days with regenerative.
But we, we still educate.
That's why we wrote this book on theregenerative, uh, medicines available.
So you find that you're oftentreating horses in traditional
ways because the owner

(09:19):
a hundred percent has.
Let's say like a resistantmindset to what you're offering.
Yeah,
a hundred percent.
Not just the owner, theveterinarian of those horses.
A lot of times, a lot of times horsescan come to us in a rehab center
referred by other veterinarians or,or, or they have all the veterinarians
behind those horses, right?

(09:40):
Yeah.
So the, and, and they are extremelyagainst, uh, alternative therapies or,
or regenerative therapies sometimes.
Well, and it's interesting you mentionstem cell because I actually had a
stem cell treatment on my knee when Itore my ACL and I had two experiences.
My first time I tore my A CLI had ahigh grade tear and I went and had ACL

(10:03):
surgery, just the traditional one wherethey take, like, they take a graft.
In my case it took a graft from myhamstring, and then they used that
to replace and it was like fullon like full surgery and it was.
The traditional approach.
Yes.
And I went to the, one of the bestin my city in Vancouver, and he did
a lot of work on a lot of the Olympicathletes for the Canadian team.

(10:25):
So I went to the best, but thereaction I had to the opioids
that they gave me mm-hmm.
It really affected my, like my, myimmune system and my overall health.
And I had terrible muscle atrophy.
So when I did it again and I had asecond ACL tower, which is really common.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I did a lot of ski.

(10:45):
I did, I did a lot ofskiing, so, oh, skiing.
Yeah.
So I did a second high gradetear when I was skiing.
And um, I remember at the timebeing like, there's no way I'm
going back and doing that again.
Mm-hmm.
There's no way that I would putmyself, my body through that.
So I started doing some researchand I found stem cell therapy
therapy in Broomfield, Colorado.

(11:06):
It's called ReGenX Clinic, and it'slike one of the forefronts of stem cell
treatment for high grade muscle tissue.
Tears like that.
Ligament tears.
Mm-hmm.
I was blown away by the differencein, so not only did I have equal
or better than results mm-hmm.
In the healing process.
Mm-hmm.

(11:26):
But I was back physically Yes.
Like physically able to use mybody, physically able to s to
bike, to ride, to ski, to not toski because it was outta season.
But I was able to do all thephysical things that I wanted to.
And I didn't have any of the likeafter effects or like the, the, what I
would call like the side effects Yeah.

(11:47):
Of the treatment.
It was so much less invasive.
Yeah.
And
so I can't help but think thatthat's also the case for our horses.
A hundred percent.
And some of the great things that wehave discovered is that not just stem
cells, but other regenerative therapiesor alternative therapies like uh,

(12:08):
uh, PRP Alpha two M, um, ozone and.
Oxygen hyperbaric chamber.
Yes.
All these things, which why?
Why do we include 'em in this topic?
It's because they improve thenatural healing of the body.
So they are great combinationwith surgery, for example.

(12:31):
Many times we have horsesthat come with fractures.
Yeah.
And these horses need either a bone chipremoved or need screws and plates to
repair a fracture, just like a person.
Mm-hmm.
But what we have discovered is that whenwe actually implement alternative and
regenerative medicine with these combinedwith the surgeries, the recovery, just

(12:57):
like you say, is better, is faster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the return to athletic performance is.
Way faster than thetraditional approaches.
What was the traditional approach?
Wait and see what happened.
Totally wait and see what happened.
But I'm always, I'malways just so intrigued.
Why waiting and see what happenedwhen we can actually prevent.

(13:19):
Mm. So I, I am one of those inour industry is very common.
They, they teach us in VE school,wait and see what happened.
Great.
But check this out.
If you have a problem, you have afracture, you have a ligament tear,
and you wait and see what happened.
By the time you wait and saw thatit didn't go right, you have scar.

(13:43):
Yeah.
You have decreased range of motion.
Yes.
You have decreasing cartilage.
Yeah.
Uh, sickness.
Or you have degeneration.
Yeah.
And then now you waited.
See what happened.
And then now.
Either you cannot fix it or it's gonnabe a lot more expensive to fix, or
the prognosis is not gonna be as good.
So why not use early treatment to preventsomething that you know is gonna happen?

(14:10):
So that's kind of our, that's kindof our approach on using the, the
regenerative and alternative therapies.
So let's dive into some of the specifics,because now since I've met you, my
horses are using some of these therapiesand I've been really excited and also
surprised that when I speak to differentvet techs that I've known for a long
time, they, so, like, for example, ozonetherapy, I'd never heard of it before.

(14:34):
Yeah.
I have different people even who'veworked for me that worked in the
vet veterinary science, uh, field.
Mm-hmm.
Never heard of ozone therapy
in the United States.
This is a taboo, just likestem cells used to be a taboo.
Why is it a taboo?
Well, have you ever.
Think who are the biggestlobbyist in the Congress?

(15:00):
Hispanic.
Yeah.
Our
pol in this politicalsystem in the United States.
Who are the biggest, where'sthe biggest money coming from?
Do you know?
Pharmaceuticals.
Pharmaceuticals.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So, and
not just human, but there's, Imean, the animal pharmaceutical.
Absolutely.
It's minus, yeah.
It's all related.
Yeah.
When I went to vet school, Ipaid for very little lunch.
Most of my lunch were paidby pharmaceutical companies.

(15:24):
Your lunch, our lunches for everybody.
They go to our, they go to the schools.
Wow.
And they pay for our launches.
Right.
But on the education,they give us education.
Say, Hey, come listen to this talk.
Yeah.
And we'll pay you lunch.
But you think that influences theminds of veterinarians early on?
Well,
let me ask you a question now you have,you are a middle class to low class.

(15:50):
Woman.
Yeah.
Or man.
Mm-hmm.
You are 22, you justgot a loan for $300,000.
For your degree.
For your degree, your education.
Yes.
And you have to quit your job becausenow you have to be a full-time student.
Yeah.
Or you have a job that pays you 12.

(16:13):
In my case, when I went toschool, it was $11 an hour.
Mm-hmm.
And someone tells you that'sgonna pay for your lunch.
Yeah.
I mean, what, where do you wanna save?
Wherever you wanna save, right?
Of course.
Yeah.
So, so now, but check this out.
Check this out.
How, how cool it goes.
Because it, it is a good thingto provide the education.

(16:37):
What they're, what they're doing isproviding the education to the client.
To the client, to their futureclient, which is the vet. Yeah.
And this time, the studentwho is in distress.
Because of the schoolsand everything has to go.
So they're making it easy.
Yeah.
Hey, don't go out to buy lunch.
Yeah.
Get your lunch here.
Yeah.
We'll just pay for it.
Just listen to this talk because this isa drug that you will use in the future.

(17:00):
Mm-hmm.
That we have done some research on it.
Mm-hmm.
And it's FDA approved.
Mm-hmm.
Which means that 51% of thepatients show a little improvement.
So it's if, is thatwhat's required for Yeah.
Right.
D approval 51%.
Yeah.
So, so they got approved fightby the FDA, and then now we have

(17:21):
an audience that is a potentialcandidate to use that when
they graduate from vet school.
Mm-hmm.
And how
long are you in vet school for?
I was, you're in that vet in vet school.
You're four years.
Yeah.
But before that, you spentfour years in in college.
Because
I'm thinking that's four years of Oh yeah.
Familiarization.
That's four years of gettingreally familiar with a company

(17:42):
of our beautiful company.
It
is genius.
Yeah, it is
genius.
It, it is genius.
So I, we never thought of this and Idon't know if ever, I don't know if
anyone have ever thought about this.
It is just, I've neverheard people talk about it.
I don't think anyone has.
I just thought about it because whenI started coming out and using these

(18:03):
technologies, the first people thatwere against it were veterinarians.
And I say, why would they be againstsomething that causes no harm?
That works.
That works, works betterin some cases that works.
That has no side effects.
Yeah.
Why would you be against it?

(18:24):
And then I was, I kept going.
I just couldn't, I reallycouldn't fathom it.
And then I tried like, wait a minute.
It is actually the greatmarketing that they do.
I mean, our blood cannot justgo and do you do marketing?
You cannot.
Yeah.
You know, you know what I'm saying?
Our blood has very low marketing skills.

(18:46):
It's true.
Oxygen has low, very marketing skills.
Yes, it's true.
Ozone has very low marketingskills or money, or they don't
have any money to market.
Well,
because you can alsoindividually empower the person.
Right.
Because a lot of people like, I meansince, since learning about ozone, I've
learned so much about this whole subsect.
Of people who are, are utilizingand many people of which I won't

(19:10):
mention in this podcast, 'causeI don't have their permission.
No.
But people from all, at all levelsof the equestrian industry use ozone
on their horses and on themselves.
Yeah.
And I was blown away.
It's great.
It was like finding out about,I don't know, Easter bun.
Like so something, somethingalmost, not mythical, but just

(19:32):
like something that was present.
Hidden.
But hidden.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
It hidden because, uh, you know, I, lemmetell you a, a very interesting story.
I put a, when I first started doingthis, a client came to me with
very desperate, and she won it.
Answers.
And she wanted the horse fixed and payattention to this story because this

(19:56):
horse was sick for a very long time.
It has a respiratory diseasefor a very, very long time.
And she went to a practice,to a hospital here in town.
And
then she came to us looking for analternative, and we actually did stem
cells on that horse in the lungs backin the days I was never heard of.

(20:16):
Wow.
And I told, we told the client,this is actually experimental.
Okay.
I, we told her Yeah.
And, and she signed.
And she agreed.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Then several years later, I found outbecause she tried to put a complaint
on us that the horse did not get cured.

(20:38):
That's it.
That was a complaint.
The horse did not get cured.
Mm-hmm.
And she put a big fit.
A big fit.
She even went to the board.
The Florida State Board becauseI did an experimental study
in her, in her horse mm-hmm.
With stem cells.
Mm-hmm.
But she agreed to be inthat experimental study.

(21:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But what was, what prompted her toput the complaint and, and try to fill
out a lawsuit that never passed anyattorney that when she went back to her
vet, her hospital here in town mm-hmm.
She's one of the most known.
At that time, they told herthat the horse was not cure.

(21:21):
Mm.
But check this out.
Yeah.
But when the records came out, becauseyou know, they have to disclose records.
Yes.
The doctor's medical records saythe horse had actually improved.
Wow.
However, they say a, a non FDAapproved procedure was done by me.

(21:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the horse didn't get cured.
But the medical records.
The horse did improve, the horse did
improve,
so, and it had notimproved four years prior.
Four years
prior.
Mm. But how interesting is that?
But it makes me think that often, youknow, when we disrupt the status quo.

(22:04):
Yeah.
Often I find, and the horse worldis no exception to this behavior,
but humans are, often it's metwith resistance always first.
Yeah.
Right.
First suspicion, first resistance.
And maybe we've been trained that way.
Maybe it's in our biology, butthere's always this feeling of, hmm,

(22:24):
no, this can't be, it can't be that.
It can't be not thateasy, but it can't be it.
This can't be the solution.
It's a huge disbelief and,and I think that you're right.
You know, anybody that has come up withsomething new is gonna be seen kind of.
Crazy, if you will.
Right.
Crazy disruptive.
And I, I really don't, like yousaid, I don't, I don't know where

(22:47):
it's, maybe it's neuro biology.
Well, and I also, I was actually,I was, I had breakfast with one
of our masterclass instructors.
Her name is Max Corcoran.
She's a, like a top level groom.
Many people listen to thispodcast will know who she is.
She's a highly respected horse careand horse management advocate in,
in different, at the Olympic level.

(23:09):
And I said to her, I said, sometimes Iwonder that as a, as a community, as a,
like a, as a subculture, as a horse world,as, because we're so used to working so
hard for everything we work, I, I wouldsay as a, as a, as a people, uhhuh, yeah.
We work 10 times harder than many, right?
To just develop an outcome,not even necessarily a better

(23:30):
outcome, but just an outcome.
So I think we're trained at a very youngage to work really hard to get a result.
And I said, I wonder sometimes whetherour limiting belief as a community is
that everything has to be hard work.
Oh, you just touched on somethingvery powerful, a limiting belief.
Yeah.
Our limiting belief could have been,uh, ingrained in our brain and,

(23:53):
and trained, right?
Because so much of horses is hard work.
Like to, to have a horse is muchharder work than having a dog.
To have a horse is much harderthan not having a horse.
Right?
So even from, from a very young age,we're taught, okay, you know, we have
to work from, from sundown to sun up.
Like, you ever talk to a horse personand say, oh, do you work nine to five?
And they'll laugh at you, right?
Because it's just you're working longerhours, you're working six days a week, you

(24:17):
have less time off and, and you're alsobeing met with a ton of disappointment.
You're met with a tonof unexpected outcomes.
So I wonder sometimes asa collective, culturally.
Do we have this fundamental belief that,oh, if we want a really good outcome,
it's gonna be much, it's gonna bethrough a lot of hard work that there's

(24:37):
no such thing as a simple answer.
That's a great point.
I love that point.
I really, I really resonatewith that point a lot.
And, and I, I resonate withthat point myself personally.
Sometimes I find myself working harderthan I need to in order to do something.
Absolutely.
I I, I never thought about it, butyou are a hundred percent right.

(24:58):
So, so, so what is ozone therapy back?
Yeah, back to the ozone.
Um, uh, what, oh, another thingthat I wanted to tell you is ozone
is not an FDA approved therapy.
Okay.
Okay.
Very important to know.
Often it's not an FDA approvedtherapy, so it's almost like when I
first started doing it almost feelslike you're doing something illegal.

(25:22):
Whoa.
It really does, becausein the United States.
What you do is anything that is notFDA approved comes with, oh, you're
doing something that is not approved.
Right.
So that sounds like, is that illegal?
Yeah.
That's a language piece.

(25:43):
Yeah.
Very important.
Yes.
And, and I got very informed on this,very early on, uh, because of that.
So I, I spent a lot of money on attorneysfiguring out, okay, how can I do
this and ensure that I'm covering mybases because I'm bringing a therapy?

(26:03):
That works.
That has no side effects.
How could these be illegal?
And, and I think,
and also many of us don'tactually understand the protocols.
I certainly don't understand theprotocols of what it takes to get
something approved by the FDA.
Absolutely.
A hundred percent.
So
we, we use it as a measure of efficacy orwe use it as a measure of merit, but yet

(26:25):
we don't actually understand its process.
And the first thing to understand isthat any drug ever made probably was
not FDA approved at the beginning.
Yeah, right.
Does it a any drug hasan experimental phase,
of course.
And any therapy also hasan experimental face.

(26:47):
Right.
So.
I think that, that, that has to dowith it because the FDA tries to
give the, by the way, I have beeninvestigated three times by the FDA.
Really?
Yeah.
I don't think any other clinic inhere, in the, in, in this area has
been investigated so long, so much.
Really?
Yeah.
Why?
And, and I'm the only one doingall this alternative that are, and

(27:09):
I'll also mention to everyone who'slistening and watching that also,
Alberto has been highly recommendedto me by a number of horsemen and
horse women that I highly respect.
Thank you.
Thank So
it's important to also mention that Yes.
Important information.
Thank you.
I, and, and I, I don't see as a bad thingbeing investigated by the FDA first.
We pass with flying colors.
Yeah.
Every time.
Mm-hmm.

(27:30):
Like absolutely nothing.
Uh, because we have been, well, welleducated on, on, on obviously how to,
how to do, how, how to do our therapies.
Plus we are doing good for the horse.
Yeah.
Anyway,
I digress.
Well,
you've done good for my horses.
That's what I can say.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
So we go on and we havethis experimental drug.

(27:50):
And the FDA, I think has done areally good job, uh, marketing a
safety, sort of like a safety windowfor the, for the American public.
Yeah.
And that's a good thing, which
is a good, we have, we
have credit that having mm-hmm.
Safety protocols in place Yeah.

(28:11):
For pharmaceutical drugsthat go to market is vital
or general health.
Yep.
And then you asked earlier, what doesit take to do FDA, uh, F fda, FDA
approved and I, I, I have participatedmultiple FDA studies, so I can
tell you with confidence, the firstthing it takes is the population
and they're very good studies.
Extremely good studies, very difficult.

(28:34):
And the horse were very difficultbecause of the caseload situation, right?
We don't have as many caseload as humans.
Like for a study in a human you caneasily get a thousand person, right?
But in studying horses, you to geta thousand horses is very difficult.
So the number is, is much less.
And you have, they have to be,to be a really good study, have

(28:54):
to be double-blinded control.
So that means that there aremultiple investigators, okay?
Multiple, uh, multiple treatmentmodalities that are given without
the investigator know what they are.
Okay?
And, and they have to prove thatthere is an unbiased improvement.

(29:16):
That improvement needs to be absolutelyunequivocally, uh, apparent a pattern.
And that's.
51%. So more than more than half.
Okay.
Right.
So they're really good studiesto give credit to the FDA.
They're really good studies and if,if a drug passes the FDA, uh, study,

(29:39):
they went into a ridiculous investment.
I mean, millions and millions of dollars.
Wow.
Which no one that produces ozonehas that kind of money to prove
to, to get an FDA study on it.
Right.
So that, yeah.
What's the only way, so that sounds like
a huge barrier to entry.
Exactly.

(29:59):
What's the only way to get a hugeamount or to, to get that much
money if, do you have funding?
Yes.
And where does that funding come from?
From the pharmaceuticals.
Right, right.
So it all, it all goes linkedto the pharmaceutical thing.
But we are making great strides.
Okay.
We're making great stride.
Back in the days chiropracticwas not well accepted either.
Osteopathy, sir. Osteopathy.

(30:20):
Osteopathy
was like wizardry, like witchy people
at
Yeah.
Even
massage therapy.
So we are making great stripes becauseof people like you bringing this.
To be known.
Mm. Because, because, well,
and I think it's about education.
Yes.
You know, again, we as a platformbelieve deeply that the more educated

(30:40):
you are, the more empowered you are.
The more empowered you are, the more this,the more able you are to make decisions
that are in the best interest of you.
And in and in our industry's case, re yes.
Because at the end of the day,it's, it's a very every case.
Yes, you can, yes, there are statisticsand yes, there are averages, but you

(31:01):
have to be able to make decisionsthat are best for the individual.
Yes.
You know?
Yes, absolutely.
A hundred percent agree.
So, back to the, what is Ola?
Yeah.
What is
everyone's going, okay.
What
is, what is ozone?
So.
Exactly what it sounds like.
You know when you're in school andyou study about the ozone ledger Yeah.
On the planet.
Yeah.
So that is ozone.
It's O three.

(31:22):
You know, o oxygen has, if you, ifyou draw the oxygen symbol, it's O2.
Okay.
And then oxygen ozone is O three.
Okay.
That, that's, that's exactly what it is.
And it's made by a machine feeding oxygen.
You feed, you, you, if you are,I'm not gonna go back into the

(31:43):
chemistry part of it, I'm justgonna tell you the basics of it.
Okay.
So there is, imagine this is a machine.
Mm-hmm.
You put ozone o oxygen in this machine.
Mm-hmm.
There is a reaction inside.
Mm-hmm.
What comes out is O three is ozone is Othree, O three, which is the same thing.
Right?
So that's how we produce ozone forthose, for your audience that is

(32:06):
extremely chemically, um, inclined.
They can easily Google and figureout the reaction is with the,
it uses uv, like et cetera.
Cool.
And then that it has, we, the person whofind this was obviously ingenious and
I'm not sure who it was because you takethat and you put it in the human body.

(32:27):
Yeah.
And or the horse's body.
Or the horse's body.
Or the joints, yeah.
And it has a greatanti-inflammatory effect.
One, if you put it in the bloodstream, ithas actually a great oxygenation effect
in the, in the red blood cells as well.
And it has great effect inthe immune system as well.

(32:51):
It has great antibacterial effect.
And now, now some hospitals areusing ozone to disinfect the surgical
suites and instruments and all that.
So ozone is a great disinfectant as well.
And does that mean it'sgood for parasites?
And it is.
I'm not sure if there's any researchat this moment on parasite, but
there's plenty of research on bacteria

(33:14):
and, and so it kills bacteria.
Amazing.
So if now, now people ask me, wait aminute, we use it to disinfect, but
we also use products to disinfectand, and chlorine and all that.
So you mean if that, is it harmful?
I said, no, it's, it's not, it's notone of those disinfectant that you are

(33:37):
thinking that kills everything for it.
It doesn't.
It kills bacteria, some bacteria.
Do not do well in ozone,which is good for us.
Yeah.
It improve oxygenation on the blood.
Yeah.
It decreases inflammation in the,in the cells and also in the joints.
Yeah.

(33:58):
Uh, actually I have done it, Ihave used it myself on multiple
areas and I can attest to that.
Yeah.
Myself.
Yeah.
And so when you give it to horses, couldwe maybe share with, with our listeners
and with the audience a little bit aboutwhat does administration look like?
Okay.
Perfect.
There are, there aremultiple ways to administer.
And when you Google it, 'cause Iknow after this we've, there's a huge

(34:20):
influx of in Google about AutoZone.
Yeah.
There's so many ways to administer it.
Cool.
Um, one of them is in the vein.
Yeah.
Intravenously.
Yeah.
In the vein.
It can go two ways, you know, in people.
They advocate against doingit directly in the vein.
Mm-hmm.
However, I have done over 3000, maybe3,300 ozone treatments in vein so far.

(34:44):
Mm-hmm.
Directly in the vein.
Mm-hmm.
And we have not had the reaction that onein a thousand or one in 2000 people get.
So we never seen a, a side effect of it.
Mm-hmm.
Other than the occasion.
Occasionally, probably like two horseshad a little bit of extra sweat.
Okay.
Yeah.
Uh, so that goes in the vein.

(35:06):
Good.
You could put in the joint, whichis literally, you take, you get
remember the oxygen machine?
Yeah.
Get the oz in its syringe.
Yeah.
From that syringe, it goesstraight in the joint.
Yeah.
And so, and I've, I've watched thisnow a number of times, so to give
everyone like a bit of a picture mm-hmm.
They're taking a very large syringe,kind of similar to like what you would

(35:26):
give, like, it's bigger even than thesyringe of what you would give like
a, like, um, a dewormer or whatever.
Yeah.
It's like quite a large cylinderand it's filled with air.
With all, with ozone.
With
ozone.
No
air,
no, but like to, for the, for the,to the uneducated eye, it looks like.
It's not air.
It's oh three.
Yes.
But it's essentially, um, like aclear cylinder and they administer

(35:50):
anywhere from like three to four tofive to however many that horse needs.
Yes.
And then you can do, and theprotocol is different for different
horses, for different scenarios.
Yes.
But they're giving it intravenously.
Intravenously in the joint.
It can be done intravaginallyfor reproduction Yeah.
Purposes.
Yeah.
And it can be done per rectum as well.
Okay.
And it can be bagged.
You could put a bag aroundthe area, around the wound.

(36:12):
Mm.
And do what we call ozone bag and fill outthe, the area with ozone and let it sit.
Oh wow.
That I have not heard of.
Yes.
Lemme see if I have a picture of it here.
Well, and we'll be sure to include.
So I'll
include links to this book.
Yes.
For those of
you who want to know, there is, I have,uh, you can do alberto ruland.com.
Yeah.
Alberto ruland.com and go toebook, uh, link and you can see it,

(36:34):
we'll see regenerative therapies
and all that we're talking abouttoday will be available in the show
notes on that link for Alberto's book.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So, uh, that's ozone is, is so simple.
It's very cool.
It's so simple.
Okay.
So then next up in your book you talkabout the hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

(36:56):
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, so that's hyperbaric chamber.
Yes.
And
so I didn't know that you couldactually use, you could, you could
walk a horse into a hyperbaric chamber.
Yes.
So first of all, I didn't knowabout anybody else listening
or watching, but I didn't knowthat that was actually a thing.
It's an amazing therapy.
It's an amazing therapy.
It is.
It's a therapy that they are, thisone has a little bit more research.

(37:17):
Mm-hmm.
Why?
Because they armed forces like it.
Oh
yeah.
The armed forces got involved in it.
Yeah.
Many, some about maybe five, sixyears ago, they invited me to
speak at the National HypotheticConvention because they wanted to see,
okay, what are we doing in horses?
Yeah.
Because they love learning from us.
Yeah.
We do so many, so many cool things, right?
Really?

(37:37):
Oh, yeah.
The, the human, the, the open-minded,well-educated human doctors,
they love contributing with us.
They love collab, theylove collaborating with us.
Oh,
that's
really cool.
Yes, yes.
And interesting.
They're not that many of'em, but, but they do.
Yeah.
But actually, I believe, and I'mwilling to say that at the forefront
in hypothetic oxygen chamber, theyunfortunately are the forefront of this.

(38:01):
We are not.
Wow.
It's not like the stem cells.
What I feel like that, that we are.
Yeah.
So what they did is they did astudy and it was so powerful.
They did multiple studies.
One of them proved that the stem cellrelease from the bone marrow, which is
where the most of the bone, most of thestem cells in the human, in the human
or animal mammals is in the bone marrow.

(38:22):
Yes.
Inside the bone.
That's how they got my stemcells was out of my bone marrow.
Yeah.
So the hyperbaric chamberpromote a hundred percent more
released from the bone marrow.
Whoa.
Yes.
There was studies done in 2006in Pennsylvania that proved
that a hundred percent more.
So that's the first, that's the firstthing that is cannot be argued with.

(38:42):
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Then the armed forces did this awesomestudy on soldiers with PTSD soldiers,
that particular soldiers that had somesort of bomb or explosion next to them.
Mm-hmm.
And somehow traumatized their brain.
Mm-hmm.
And that trauma wasactually noticed on MRI.

(39:07):
Oh wow.
So.
Then they, what they did was very clever.
They did 30 to 40 treatments and thepatients, the soldiers would go home.
And what was most impactful of this iswhat the wife and family members reported.

(39:28):
Now, what the patients reported,but what the family members
reported, and this is not powerful.
You tell me what, it's becausethey brought a panel of wives
and family members saying,how much have this changed?
Observation uhhuh,
all the observations that they sawon the soldiers that had before

(39:50):
and after the hyperbaric oxygen.
It was amazing.
I'm even thinking as you're speaking,I'm thinking of there are so many
people in the horse world whohave had major, major concussions.
Like
who even have stopped?
Like I've been even in the cold starting,like I'm even thinking in the cold
starting community, how many cowboys havehad made so many concussions that they've

(40:10):
been told like, you can't do this anymore.
'cause we can't guarantee thatyou won't have like a life
altering concussion next time.
So this could be huge for them.
It's huge.
Welcome to Epic.

(40:31):
Hey everyone, it's Noel.
While we were in Ocala, Florida, myhorses and I worked with Dr. Alberto
Ruan and his incredible team at Epic,the Equine Performance and Innovation
Center lady and Alano warmed up on theeuro sizer, worked the aqua treadmill
and healed in the hyperbaric chamber.
They tailored a program to eachhorse's specific needs, helping us

(40:55):
navigate health challenges and tobuild strength and conditioning.
Lady and guano loved swimming lapsin the world class outdoor pool.
Epic truly has somethingfor every kind of horse.
Thank you, Dr. Roland and theepic team for keeping my horses
in top form during our travel.

(41:17):
This could be huge for that.
It's huge.
So after I, after I went to thatconference, uh, five, six years ago,
and I show my cases and they werelike, wow, those are great cases.
I said, yeah, but what you guysare showing is just amazing because
now we can, we can help so much ourpatients, our horses and, and with

(41:41):
confidence we can, we can say that.
So needless to say, in the veterinarycommunity, extremely looked down upon
because the only thing, because we havedone a very poor job at, at doing that,
providing that research that, that theare, that the armed forces have done
right.

(42:02):
But the armed forces are able to usegovernment funding, thank to research it.
Thank you.
Whereas, and a sports be, andalso I would say, because PTSD is
such a, it's a so societal like.
Pain point.
Yes.
You know, it's affecting peoplefrom all socioeconomic backgrounds
that they're going to be able tojustify funding from the government,
from government taxes Yeah.
To fund that.

(42:22):
Whereas I, I would imagineit would be very difficult to
find funding to do research onhyperbaric chambers for horses.
Yeah.
So we have to do it.
We just have to report the, the findingsthat we have and we have done amazing.
Amazing.
And there's a, there's a web page thatcreated called equine hyperbaric.com,
equine hyperbaric.com, where Ipost the most dramatic cases.

(42:43):
And that is kind of our, our own wayto show the public what we can do.
So
what would be an example ofa reason why would put what a
horse in a hyperbaric tumor.
So the, the first and mostcommon example on the way widely
accepted is for wound care.
Okay.
Lemme tell you, it improved thewound healing significantly.

(43:03):
And we have control studies wherewe show 50 to 60% improvement.
So in
what kind of period of time?
Uh, let's say you havedifficult wound care.
The most difficult wound care that Ifeel in horses disease in the legs.
Mm.
Where they have
a cannon bone exposed.
Yes.
Right.
That happened.
They put it, they put theleg via in the cannon bone.
Yeah.
I mean in the fence.
Yeah.

(43:24):
And they, they do what'scalled degloving injury.
Yeah.
Those could take a year or two years.
To heal.
To heal.
And we have, we have, and that's
mentioned the length of time,like how, what the like mental and
emotional impact on that horse is to becompletely confined during that time.
It is a huge drain.
Mental physically, economically.
Yeah.

(43:44):
Yeah.
Psychologically.
Yeah.
And we have been able to provethat we can shorten it up.
Wow.
To six months.
Wow.
Or more.
We actually had a patient, we wereable to get it out at 60 days.
Now this is with very aggreutilizing what I just told you, why?
Mm-hmm.
Because one, the hyperbaric oxygenchamber increases the stem cells.

(44:05):
Yes.
So you now have a lot ofsoldiers feeling those wounds.
Right.
But in addition to that, if youthink about a large wound, that large
wound, what in the center of thatwound, there's no much blood flow.
Yeah.
There's, there's no blood flow period.
Of course.
Well, there's,
yeah, there's a break.
There's a fracture in the skinand the nerves and the tissue.
And what brings nutrients and oxygento a wound is the blood vessels.

(44:31):
So oxygen now is pressurizingthe body goes di dissolving.
The plasma.
Plasma we have, we're talking about600% more oxygen dissolve in the
plasma after the hyperbaric chamber.
600%. So now we all know thatoxygen can help all those cells

(44:53):
reproduce and fill in faster.
So again, this is coming backto helping the body do what it
does already, but do it better.
Exactly.
Like
do it like on, like, it's likeyou're like, they're like superhuman.
Yep.
Exactly.
Mm.
So all the things that we havedone that, that's the most commonly
accepted, that that one is undeniable.
A hundred percent undeniable.

(45:14):
And what is really interesting isthat we have been using it for long
and respiratory issues as well.
Oh, cool.
With great results.
Great results, yes.
Not FDA approved.
Mm-hmm.
Again.
Right.
Uh, so, so it's, it's looked a littlebit frowned upon by the community, but
we have been able to do some amazing,amazing treatments on respiratory issues.

(45:39):
Pluto, pneumonias, really bad pneumoniasthat, you know, when the horses are,
are traveling for a long period of timeand all of a sudden start developing
abscesses and large, uh uh, and.
Large amount of infection in thelungs, they have to be drained out.
Mm-hmm.
Excellent result.
Now, I never promote do it in on his own.

(46:02):
We still go to surgery.
We, we drain it.
So I always use it in conjunctionwith the, with yeah, with,
with, with our western medicine.
So the surgeon drains it.
Mm-hmm.
Clear it up as much as you canand then we put it in the chamber.
Those horses recover way faster.
Recently I had a horse, a clientthat called me, not a client, a

(46:22):
potential client, but he's beenat a clinic for three months.
This horse hasn't been ableto breathe for three months.
Oh no.
More was October, October,November, December, February, and
now it's about be four months.
Can you imagine notbreathing for four months?
Because, because your doctors don'tbelieve that there's a therapy

(46:43):
that can help, that can help you.
But there is a therapy that can help you.
It makes me think, because I think it'simportant even to go down to the basics.
So
when our, let's saythere's a lung infection.
Yeah.
And I actually have a really closefriend, and I'm, and I'm gonna, I
can't wait to send her this podcastbecause she has had a terrible time

(47:05):
with her Marere, um, and asthma.
And so That's a tough one.
Yeah.
And there, and she lives in a very, likea, she lives in the Pacific Northwest,
so it's a very moist ecosystem.
It's a very, like, it's wet, it's cold.
Mm-hmm.
It's, you know, and so she wasgiven all sorts of different
protocols with steroids.

(47:25):
Yes.
Right.
And anyone who's listening who'shad asthma knows that if you've been
given Ben Pullman or you've been givendifferent things, so steroids are here.
And you're gonna explainthis better than me, but I
understand that steroids, mm-hmm.
Are a, like a, like a retardant.
They're like a, likethey're a suppressant.
Suppress the immune system.

(47:46):
Okay.
A hundred percent.
And we do that because why?
Why do we give?
So if you're suffering from somethingin your body, either as a horse or as
a human, why do we give something thatactually suppresses the immune system?
Good question.
Great question.
And there is a, there isactually a science for it.
Sometimes the immune system getsa little bit out of control.

(48:08):
Mm. And we have to tell theimmune system, Hey, hold on.
Calm down.
Calm down.
We got it.
Okay.
So a lot of time, the immune system,the steroid, that's what they're doing.
Calm down.
Quit.
Quit bringing 10 million soldiers to thebattleground because you're killing us.
Yeah.
Rather than just, we just need 10, wejust need 10 soldiers for this battle.

(48:34):
So that.
Is where the immune system has the,where the steroids have a good place.
Mm.
That's why when we treata horse like that, yeah.
That is in respiratory distress.
We do not discontinue thesteroids at the moment.
Okay.
Our goal is to find a middleground of where the horse can live.
Happy mm-hmm.
And healthy with less steroids.

(48:56):
We, we play to see what is theleast amount of steroids that we can
have understood with our therapies.
Try to give the body then the properimmune, uh, immune reaction, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because we, we still need the,sometimes we still need the steroids,
but it is our experience thatmany times we can take 'em off.

(49:18):
We can take him off the steroids.
We use some continue usingregenerative or alternative therapy.
There's so many out therethat you can do in Halen.
Yeah.
With, you can do in Halen with stemcells, you can do in Halen with Amon
therapy, which is also in the book.
Mm-hmm.
You can do, uh, in Halen withAlpha two M and while doing that,
you can put 'em in the hyperbaricoxygen chamber too, to increase

(49:41):
the efficacy of the immune system.
So
you could actually do.
Um, could you do steroids and wouldyou do like steroid treatment or
antibiotic treatment in conjunction Yeah.
With the hyperbaric chamber?
Yeah,
absolutely.
As a matter of fact, uh, if, if yousee some of my, some of my education
and podcasts on the hyperbaric chamber,on equine hyperbaric.com mm-hmm.

(50:05):
You will see that one of the effectsof the hyperbaric is actually
potentiates the antibiotics.
It helps the antibiotics.
We had a case, one of our most famouscase was a horse that had a navicular
bird eye infection from a nail thatwent on the, with her, she jumped
after the jump, the shoe came off.
Somehow the shoe got twisted and went back

(50:26):
Oh, wow.
Into the foot, into the navicular bone.
Yeah.
That created a really bad infection.
Yeah.
The, the horse went to surgery.
Yeah.
Number one.
Yeah.
And after surgery came out.
Three out of four orfive or five out of five.
Meaning not, not Bay wearing.
Wow.
Couldn't bear any weight.

(50:46):
That's awful.
Went to surgery number two.
Yep.
And came out the same, went to surgerynumber three and came out the same.
The owner was a helicopter pilot forthe Army, so she started Googling
and Goling and she found us.
She said, would you dohyperbaric, my mayor?

(51:08):
Mm-hmm.
I said, I, you sounds like you wentto the best of the best clinics.
Mm-hmm.
In town.
Mm-hmm.
And they couldn't fix it.
I don't think I can fix it.
Mm-hmm.
She like, I don't care.
I need you to fix it.
Call somebody.
She wouldn't take no for an answer.
I said, we've never done this before.
I don't know if it can be done, but shehas so much perseverance that I started
calling and I ended up calling a, a greatfriend of mine now her name is Shelina.

(51:31):
And she was like, well, it's gonnasound tough, but if I was you, I
would do this and this and that.
And she gave me a protocol for it.
I called the owner, I said, Hey,I found somebody that told me we
might be able to, to help you.
Yeah.
We changed nothing on that horse.
We, we kept the same antibiotics Yeah.
That she came with.
Yeah.
We, the same anti-inflammatory.

(51:52):
We changed absolutely nothing.
Her name is Willow and you cansee@equinehyperbaric.com that
horse actually recovered very well.
And when, um, they were ableto get embryos out of her
Oh wow.
This mare would, while she was withus, they got embryos out of her.
No way.
Yeah.
So,
so when you're doing height, so, andthis is what I think is important

(52:13):
to mention, is that you're not.
These regenerative therapies.
You're not saying don't do theantibiotic, don't do steroids, don't
follow these western medicine practices.
We
have to, we have do
it in conjunction.
In conjunction with, with evidence thatthey actually improve the efficacy.
Yeah.
Of the protocol being likebeing given a hundred percent.

(52:35):
Which is really exciting.
Yes.
Because I think every horseperson who has, or has like, has
had or has a horse that is beingtreated for, for whatever physical
ailment that they're dealing with.
Any chance that you can increase theefficacy of the protocol that you're
spending a ton of time, money, andemotional grievance like, um, like

(52:59):
emotional energy on, I think you take it,
you just mentioned something interestingand I wonder, and I just can wonder.
We save our clients a lot of money.
It seems expensive at the beginning.
Yeah.
But when when they come back to meand they're like, holy crap, I wish
I knew about this four months ago.

(53:20):
Yeah.
Because if you think about being on anexpensive antibiotic for five months.
Yeah.
Let's say you spend a hundred dollarsa day, which is very little compared
to some, some of these horses.
A hundred dollars a day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's a lot like for five month.
Yeah.
That adds up pretty fast.
Yeah, it
does.
Just on antibiotics.
Yeah.
Add to that the care and everything else.

(53:41):
Yeah.
Actually a price about 120.
So over 120 a day, over five months.
And then I tell them, Hey, ifyou would've come to me maybe
in three months, we would've gotyou out or maybe in two months.
So the mathematics is actuallyvery favorable because we, we still
would've, we still wanna do theantibiotic, we wanna do everything else.

(54:03):
We just accelerate the process.
Well, and I'm glad you mentioned costsbecause when we talk a lot about these
therapies, I worry that a lot of ourlisteners are gonna go, yeah, that
sounds nice, but that sounds expensive.
That sounds like for the, you know,five, the one to 5% of the horse
industry, you can afford to have a horse.
You know, and I mean, I will imaginingwalking my horse into a, like a hyperbaric

(54:26):
chamber sounds just, sounds expensive.
Well, let's talk about the economics.
Let's be, uh, and you probably knowabout this more than me, but let's
say the average, the, the averageboarding and training you do, what
would be the average boarding, trainingand care for a horse in a month?
So I think the average,

(54:47):
I know it would vary in, yeah.
So
the average spend of an equestrianannually for everything mm-hmm.
Is $7,986 a year.
That's the average spendper year on everything.
Seven
or 77,
7.
It seems low spend on, butthat doesn't include training.
No.
That doesn't, no, that's because noteveryone spends money on training.

(55:08):
Last time I check, last time, I checkon on some of my clients mm-hmm.
Doing a, like a, a pool.
Yeah.
They were between seventotal cost per horse.
Mm-hmm.
Between 65 and 95,000.
Per year.
Per
year.
Yeah.
And I've seen that too.
And I think that's, I thinkthat's, that number is indicative

(55:29):
of the more sport focused Yes.
Subsection of the industry.
Yeah.
Which
is most of the horses thatwe're talking about that I,
that we treat are, are sports.
Sports horses, right?
Correct.
Yeah, totally.
Now,
what is the cost of not havingthat horse train for six months?

(55:50):
Think about this.
Think about what does it costto have a horse then stop.
Because now what this owner and trainerhave to do, you have to replace the horse.
Mm-hmm.
They have to replace the activities.
Mm-hmm.
So that we can measure that cost.
How about the psychologicaleffect of the athlete runner?

(56:10):
Yeah.
Not being able to compete, becausefor those of us who know competition,
there's a psychological aspect of it.
Totally.
Right?
Yeah.
So now you start compounding costof the horses not being fixed.
The stress of having a sick horse.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The, the price of tryingto replace that horse.
Mm-hmm.
That piles up very quickly,but what if we can then, uh,

(56:31):
lemme give you a quick example.
At this moment, what day today?
January 30th, 2025.
Yeah.
To do a 21 a, a horse clinic at 21 days.
Mm-hmm.
With the treatment of 10 hyperbaric.
Mm-hmm.
The very basic is about $4,810
for how many days?
$5,810.

(56:52):
5,000. 21 days.
For 21 days.
21 days.
Right.
So that averages out whatto shy of $250 a day.
So, so let's round itup to 2 50, 2 75 days.
We on the hyperbaric Right.
On the high end.
On the high end, let's say thehorse needs a lot more treatment.
Yeah.
Those 21 days become 7,300.
Okay.

(57:13):
Roughly.
Yeah.
Right.
So now if you think about7,321 days, almost a month.
Mm-hmm.
Versus a horse in training.
Yeah.
That I just told you.
A 12 month period between65 and what, 80, 90,000?
Yeah, totally.
It actually not, it's not that.
It's not that much.

(57:33):
Yeah.
Well, if you think about what,so when people spend, you know.
I think it'd be very common tomany of our listeners that you're
gonna spend between two and 5,000on training and bore and feed.
Right.
And then if you have those costsalready, but then you're missing.
But, but if you have to increase thelength of time that the horse is out

(57:53):
of commission or not able to competeor not able to be even healthy, like
the compounding effect is significant.
Significant.
So my it's like what you're talking aboutis paying more in the short term Yes.
To have a longer term
return.
My return.
'cause my point is thecost per year mm-hmm.
Of a sick horse Yes.
Is outweighs, is is way more Yeah.

(58:16):
Than getting that whole healthier mm-hmm.
In a shorter period of time.
Mm-hmm.
I have done the calculationsmany, many times and it always
points to the same, to the same.
Treat early, be aggressive early,and avoid a five month, six month
problem, especially in this casewith pneumonia or wound, for example.
Yeah.
We have some wounds that have takena horse out of commission for a whole

(58:37):
year because of the whatever resistantwe get to treat 'em, you know?
And
that sounds like really goodadvice, right, to our listeners
is be aggressive early.
Yes.
And don't be afraid to be proactive
rather than wait and see what happens.
Mm. Because let's say, I don'tknow, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a father.

(58:59):
I have the 13-year-old and I havean 11-year-old soon, 14, soon.
Soon.
13 and 14 and 12.
And if I go to the doctor and thedoctor tells me, yeah, he has a fever,
now let's wait and see what happens.
I don't like that.

(59:19):
Yeah, I don't like that.
I don't like that either.
Yeah.
He has a fever.
Now let's wait five moredays, which is very common.
I'm telling you.
A real case, right?
A real case, right.
My, my son got a fever.
We took him to a doctor, and thedoctor say, don't do any treatments.
Let's wait and see what happens.
Yes.
A lot of times it will resolvebecause the immune system will Yes.
Be resolved in it on its own.

(59:40):
Yeah.
Hey, but what if the doctor tellshim, Hey, but if we are proactive
and we can do some alternativetherapies instead of waiting and
see what happen in 10 days, we couldprobably shorten this up by five days.
Yeah, yeah.
How cool would that be?
That would be, yeah, because again, theall what, what I'm seeing is a theme is
these regenerative therapies are helping.

(01:00:01):
The immune system.
Do what it's already designed to do.
Just do it better.
Yes, exactly.
Because something that I think is reallyimportant that I've noticed in a lot of
the conversations I've had about ozoneis we and our horses are exposed to much
more toxins, much more, um, pollutants,much less affected, like much clean.

(01:00:26):
We have a lot more GMOs in our food
herbicides.
Yeah.
Herbicides.
Like, I have my horses on like a, likea supplement that actually is counteract
counteracting roundup because Oh, great.
Because
I had a holistic vet say, I think one ofyour horses has been exposed to Roundup.
Which, and, and also that since thenI've talked to many professionals

(01:00:46):
that said all of our horseshave been exposed to Roundup.
All right.
Yeah.
So.
It makes me think that.
So someone, if someone's listening, and Ithought this too, I thought, well, if I'm
my, you know, our immune system is great.
Why?
Why fiddle with it?
Why mess with it?
But I would say that our immune systemsand our horses immune systems are much
more, and you can let me know whatyou think about this statement, but

(01:01:09):
I feel like we are fighting a muchharder battle than a hundred years ago.
Because there's a lot more inthe air, in the water, in the
food than there was before.
That's, there's no onewould argue with that.
Absolutely.
No one would argue with that.
So it's not too far afield to say that wecould use some help where we can get it.
Right.
Right.
Exactly.

(01:01:30):
So let's talk about stem cell.
I'd love to talk about 'cause,and maybe we can talk about it
together, like stem cell therapy.
Mm-hmm.
Um, PRP, which is equine,um, platelet rich plasma.
Yeah.
Which, uh, a lot of us, I meanpeople, I think a lot of us are
familiar with PRP, but I'd liketo talk about it, um, in detail.
And then the amniotic.
Fluid a ute.

(01:01:51):
Oh man, this is interesting stuff.
So let's, let's go with, let's gowith the stem cells too, because the
stem cells have a lot of intricaciesand controversies on its own.
Back in the days, we used to thinkthat you had a, a problem, you had
a wound, you're missing an organ.
Uh, you're missing a tendon.
You're missing a ligament.
And we used to think that we weregonna put a stem cells and it was

(01:02:14):
just gonna create a brand new one.
Right.
It, it doesn't, it doesn't workLike, it doesn't work like that.
Okay.
We have found out that the stemcells themselves, and this is,
this is part of the, I don't wannasay problem, but this is part of
the challenges that we have found.
The more research we do, we keepfinding out that there are different
ways they work, not that they'reineffective, it's just that there

(01:02:37):
are different ways they work.
And we have found out that the stemcells doesn't necessarily regenerate.
A tissue.
And that's why now they'retrying to change this.
Instead of doing regenerativetherapies there, there is a big
movement to call them orthobiologics.
Ortho from orthopedics.
Yeah, biologics from biologics.

(01:02:57):
Cool.
Rather than calling it regenerativeso that we don't get confused and the
public doesn't get confused and thinking,yeah, you're gonna chop off your thumb.
You put stem cells and grow a new thumb.
Well, I think
language, and that's whereword choice is important.
Yes.
Right.
So now we call it words of biologicsbecause we found out that they

(01:03:18):
don't regenerate that tendon.
But what they do is they, one, haveanti-inflammatory properties on its own.
Yeah.
And two, they call the stem,the stem cells from the body.
They call 'em and say,Hey, let's repair this.
So let's repair this together.
Mm-hmm.
Repair it faster.

(01:03:38):
Mm-hmm.
And then they get to work
and it's cool.
'cause you call them soldiersand that's how they was
described when I had stem cell.
Yeah.
Done.
That's how the doctor explained it to me.
Yes.
He said, we're gonna go in, we'regonna, we're gonna, we're gonna
irritate that a c uhhuh that has tornand we're gonna tell the body, Hey,
we're, it's like a big white flag.

(01:03:59):
Like, Hey, over here, over here, thenwe're gonna draw your bone marrow.
We're gonna, we're gonna spin itand draw your stem cells and then
we're gonna, with these huge needles.
Huge.
Good thing.
I didn't have any issue with needles.
With these huge needles weregonna vary specifically.
Target the stem cells to this area.
Mm-hmm.
And that's stem cells.
They're all like little soldiers.

(01:04:20):
And they're like, yeah.
Kind of like super motivated.
Like, you know, they're supermotivated sergeants going, Hey
guys, like come over here, fix this.
Let's fix, we gotta fix this.
And like right now, yeah.
That, that's, and that's how it works.
That that's how we have foundout that they, that they work
now, same thing with with Amon.
What is Amon?
Amon is fluid.

(01:04:42):
Let's say you have a fall.
Mm-hmm.
And this fall comes in a bag.
Yeah.
We call it the placenta.
Yeah.
And this placenta has a part calledthe Amon and the Amon, A-M-N-I-O-N.
Mm-hmm.
That
Amon goes around the baby itself.
Oh,
so
it's another layer.
It's like the amniotic fluid.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that amniotic fluid can be collected.

(01:05:04):
Oh wow.
And AM field has greatanti-inflammatory properties.
Great, great.
Yeah.
And that can be put into the bones,into the ligaments, into the joints.
And so for everyone to know,that's also what we're gonna
be doing today with my marere.
Yes.
Yes.
Is we're
gonna be putting, so I have been workingwith Alberto to work on my mare and some

(01:05:24):
of her previous injuries from her previouslife to reduce the inflammation and create
more, um, like, like, uh, basically moresupport in areas that have bone spurs Yes.
Or mild kissing spine.
Yep.
And this, and we've used amnioticfluid in those areas, correct?
Yep.
We do amniotic fluid.
And we also did it in, in hereye because she had u vitis

(01:05:45):
uveitis.
Yeah.
Ooh,
someone's not gonna like this.
Yeah.
But we did it in her eye.
Yeah.
And we also, we, we also do alpha twoM, which is another blood product.
Yes.
Alpha two M is a plasma product.
Yeah.
That has the particular proteincalled Alpha two M. Mm-hmm.
That's in our blood.
Yeah.
We concentrated, we spin it.
Yeah.
Concentrated.

(01:06:05):
Put it in the area, in the affected area.
And so, and I wanna share with everyonewho's listening or watching that, the
reason why I as personally I can sharewith, with everyone, my reasoning
was that my mare is 15 years old.
She's had a big and colorful,exciting life before me.
She's clearly had a series of injuriesthat weren't treated at the time.
So what I'm trying to do is we'retrying to see if we can use these,

(01:06:30):
these treatments to improve her comfortlevel and allow her to, um, regain a
closer to a hundred percent mobilityin those areas instead of the last,
which I always think is, and, and it'sa really important one to do, is the
last, the, the, the, the point of,um, the last point of, of contact I
would say, or the treatment is steroids

(01:06:50):
instead of steroids.
And
there's nothing.
And you told me when we talked aboutthis, there's nothing wrong with
steroids, but wouldn't it be cool if.
If plasma and amniotic A twom and PRP would work as well.
Mm-hmm.
With her, because we cancontinue to give that over time.
Steroids have a bit of adifferent effect over time.

(01:07:13):
Steroids are not gonna heal, butthey're great anti-inflammatory.
They're amazing at what they do.
Mm-hmm.
They're great discovery.
Mm-hmm.
They just don't, they don't heal.
You get a steroid shot in a, in a,in your knee, you're probably gonna
need another one in four months.
Three months, yeah.
After UACL.
Yeah.
It, it lasts.
It doesn't last a whole lot of time.

(01:07:34):
And yeah, it will, it willhelp you with the pain.
It will help with the inflammation.
It's
like more like a super, it'slike a super powerful bandaid.
Yes.
That's, I like that.
It's a super powerful bandaid.
Yeah.
Whereas PRP and, and A twoM, what would you call them?
They're more like I,
they're also a bandaid.
Yeah.
But they help.
Fixing, but that also a bandaid.

(01:07:56):
Yeah.
We, we still haven't, we still have notcome up with something that completely
reverses reverse
the process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, bear in mind, haven't we come upwith this because we don't change our
pattern or we don't change our behavior?
Because think about, thinkabout the simplest thing.

(01:08:17):
Mm-hmm.
Think about you go to a chiropractor,the chiropractor adjusts your neck,
your back, and you feel really good.
Yes.
Now you go home.
Do you change your bed?
Do you change your car seat?
Do you change the way you walk?
Do you change your shoes?
So true.
Right?
Whoa.
So, so are we, are, are we not seeingthe full effect because we continue

(01:08:41):
doing the same thing or just becausethey don't actually reverse it?
There's something, a question to putto pose out there that, that might be
interesting looking into, into the future.
You know, gosh, that's
such.
I feel like I'm gonna give that.
Yeah.
Right.
That fra.
Okay.
So I think that's such an important pointbecause that's the importance of podiatry.

(01:09:02):
Mm-hmm.
And why our understanding ofour horses' feet, you know, they
say no horse, no hoof, no horse.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
The nutrition aspect of things.
Our horses actually being giventhe very best chance they can
to develop the muscles and thestrength that they need to mm-hmm.
Top line physiology, biomechanics.
So all these things you're, you'relike, you're so right, Alberto.

(01:09:23):
Like we, we can go and get fixed bythe chiropractor, but if we are still
sleeping on a really poorly designed bed.
We're still spending 15 hours infront of the computer with our
neck forward like this, right?
Mm-hmm.
If we are slu, we are like slunched over,we're not doing any physical fitness,

(01:09:43):
we're not strengthening all the partsof our muscles and our bodies that
we need to, to have correct posture.
Then it doesn't matter howgreat your chiropractor is.
Yeah.
We can easily tell it didn't workor we can just say, Hey, I didn't
do anything to make it work,or I just have to keep going.
Right?
Yeah.
You keep going and notchange anything else.
And that's why you told me the firstround we did of, of injections on Lady.

(01:10:05):
Mm-hmm.
You
said it's really important thatyou maintain and you continue
to work on her physiotherapy.
Yes.
And that's something that, and I've cometo really understand, like we, we talk
a lot about core strength in people.
Mm-hmm.
But do we talk a lot about core strength?
It's becoming more and moreaccepted and more popular now.

(01:10:26):
'cause the human physiotherapistare doing a real good job
helping us understand that.
And then the nurse hastrainers and, and rehabbers.
Now we Oh, okay.
It makes a little bit of sense.
So we are working towards it as well.
Because I can
imagine, like if you, you, you, you bringsomeone in and their horse, you know,
and you say, okay, look, hey, this is,we, we actually, we caught this early.
We can do a series of PRPand A two M injections.

(01:10:49):
Amazing.
This is not too bad.
This kissing spine is not too bad.
But if that owner goes home and overfeeds the horse, right, and the horse
is actually really high on the bodyscore, like on the body score spectrum.
A nine, yeah.
A nine, and the horse is obese, thenthe stress on that skeletal structure
is gonna counterbalance all themoney that they just spent with you.

(01:11:10):
Or it doesn't change the training.
For example, a kissing spinehorse shouldn't be trotting a lot.
The horse should be doing a little bitmore countering and gallops than trotting.
Just the way that me, the,the rehabilitation works,
they go back to traning, uh.
With a person banging on their, ontheir back doesn't last that long.
And why is that?
Why so explain.
I, I think that's actually areally good thing to mention

(01:11:31):
to those who are listening.
So, well
now we're gonna take about rehab.
Well, let's dive in a little bit.
Okay.
Okay.
Like, I mean, we'll stay on point, butI think that's a really interesting
one because I'm sure everyone who's,I remember that you mentioned that to
me first and I was like, wait, what?
Mm-hmm.
More cantor and morewalking and less trash.
Yeah.
If you have a kissing spine, sidenote for the podcast, if you have
kissing spine, you, you want to enghow do you engage the core more?

(01:11:53):
What, what is the core?
Yeah.
And the core has, your abdominal musclesare a big part of your core, right?
So if you look at your horse when it'scountering, those abs are very engaged.
Mm-hmm.
And if you look at the horsewhen it's strutting, they're not.
Mm. So the horse trots, and I'm gonna tryto, to, to verbally tell you what happens.
There's a big blob of food in the belly.

(01:12:17):
Big called the Intestines.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.
A big bag of food in there.
Big bag, right?
He is.
He has hundreds of pounds of food.
Yeah.
Stomach, small intestine.
Yeah.
It's a lot of weight.
We call that the viscera.
Mm-hmm.
And when that horse trots, whenit elevates and down, elevates
and down, that viscera isactually moving up and down too.

(01:12:40):
Mm. Right.
And if the abs are notengaged, it will pull down.
And it will push up.
Gotcha.
And the spine, pull down, push upversus in the counter those abs
are really tight and the visitor,all that hundreds of pounds of food

(01:13:00):
are compressed in there are tight.
Mm-hmm.
And then there's lessbad motion in the spine.
Cool.
I think that's really helpful for, 'causethere's more and more cases of kissing
spine and I always wonder whether that'sbecause there's more cases of it or we're
seeing it.
We're just seeing it.
Yeah.
Right.
Probably seeing it more.
It's very interesting.
But I know that that was a real wowmoment for me as I am working on

(01:13:22):
the foundational, the biomechanicaland foundational aspects of my
mare as she's going through.
Mm-hmm.
This work with you.
Mm-hmm.
So to wrap up, yeah.
I thought it would, um, be really coolto talk a little bit and just kind
of close out on shockwave therapy.
Shockwave.
Shockwave was.
That has become very, verycommon in the equine athletes.

(01:13:43):
They have done a fantasticjob at, at marketing it and
promoting the, the use of it.
The companies that provide shockwave, Ibelieve that have done a, a very good job
explaining and researching the product.
Right.
Uh, some of the myths that I liketo always uncover myth, right.

(01:14:07):
It's not the same as tents unit, theone that you buy in the grocery store
or in Publix, and then you put inthe skin and give you electricity.
Right.
Okay.
So that's
not shockwave, that's not shock.
No.
And it's not the same thingas what we call p post electro
electromagnetic field therapy.
Yeah.

(01:14:28):
And so that would be like shock.
That's like magna wave.
Magna wave er emer.
So shockwave is not that.
Okay.
Right.
Shockwave is more of a. It hasmore of a sound wave actually.
Mm. That goes in the tissue, penetratesthe tissue, and we have found out that it
has some improvement in the circulation.

(01:14:48):
Mm-hmm.
Definitely has improvement in the pain.
In pain and it has some sortof anti-inflammatory effect.
Okay.
Um, when I broke my, my fibula
mm-hmm.
Probably about eight years ago.
Okay.
I actually chuck wave itbecause Oh, it was so painful.
It was so painful and I needed tokeep working as a young veterinarian.

(01:15:11):
Back in the day, you cannot skip a day,so you have to keep going Of course.
And have to heal it faster.
Yeah.
So what I did, which is probablynot a recommended by the orthopedic
surgeon, but I can tell you that mypain was significantly decreased.
Mm. And it healed very fast.
Mm. It really helped heal.

(01:15:32):
This was invented for people.
Oh, cool.
The problem is, it's so painful.
Shockwave is painful.
Oh,
it's so painful on people.
Yes.
Oh,
so
it does causes pain.
And they're coming up with some of themnow that are quote unquote less painful.
Yeah.
Um, but it, it does hurt whenyou, when you when So does
that mean when you do shockwave

(01:15:52):
on horses?
It hurts.
We isolate them.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We sedate them.
And why does it hurt?
Well, because that massive soundwave going, it's like a chuck, ah,
it's literally a chuck of sound wavethat go in and, and that, and that
produces pain, especially if thereis a irritated tissue, because if
there's irritated tissue already hyperhigh, highly, it is highly sensitive.

(01:16:16):
So why, why, why do, howdoes that heal anything?
Uh, yeah.
It is, it is very interesting.
If you, I don't want to get intothe deep, deep aspect of the, of
the science of it, but let's sayit goes into the cell mm-hmm.
And it helps the sale.
Hmm.
Produce more signals.

(01:16:37):
Oh, produce more chemicals thatare actually good for the plate.
So
it's like almost like intentional stress.
Yeah.
On the area.
Yes.
That Well,
'cause we always use, you know when, whenever I think of pressure,
people go, oh no, not too much.
Not too much pressure.
Not too much pressure.
But I'm like, well actually ifyou think about it geologically
what creates a diamond?
Pressure?
Pressure.
Pressure in the charcoal.

(01:16:57):
Yeah.
So there's lots of incidencesof in nature of how pressure.
Intentionally create ifintentionally focused Yeah.
Actually produces something remarkable,something cherished, something perfectly.
Right.
So it sounds a little bitlike intentional stress.
Yeah.
Or pressure.
Yeah.
To produce an, like aresult within the body.
Biochemistry.

(01:17:17):
Excellent, excellent,excellent explanation.
That's right.
You can hire me anytime.
Couldn't do any better.
I'm gonna, I'm gonnatake this piece for sure,
man.
I have learned so much in this podcast.
Awesome.
I'm glad
I am so Well, and I just wanna saylike, I've been really grateful
to be introduced to you, to workwith you and to learn from you.
Thank you.
Because I think it's so important thatas everyday horse owners, we are given

(01:17:45):
the tools to make the best decisionsfor our horse's health because our
horses can't speak for themselves.
Yeah.
So I think it's almost, it's,it's, it is truly fundamentally
our responsibility to learn as muchas we can about what's available.
Mm-hmm.
And then what's availableeach within our own.
Um, like what's available in our area.
Yeah.
You know, as soon as we starteddoing a two M and, and, um, and

(01:18:08):
PRPI said to you, well, do youthink it's gonna be available?
And I did some research, is it gonnabe available in my area when we
go back to the Pacific Northwest?
And sure enough, it is,
it's becoming more, more wildly available.
And, and because of owners like youand promoters like you, now we are,
who are so concerned about the, thehealth and welfare of the horse.

(01:18:29):
It's starting to get more knownbecause we vet, we do a horrible job
promoting these alternative therapies.
We do a really bad jobbecause they're not drugs.
Yeah.
Right.
So, so it, it takes a massive effort onthe horse trainers, owners demanding it.
Yeah.
And I was gonna say, it's, it's just.

(01:18:51):
Horse.
Horse health is as much amarket as anything else, right?
So the market will respond to the demand,goal supply will respond to the demand.
So for everyone who's listening orwatching this episode, if you are in an
area that these, these, these therapiesdon't exist, you know, I think that every
individual has the ability to togetherwith other individuals who want it.

(01:19:13):
Yep.
And to start actually calling outto, to reaching out to your local
vet clinics and saying, we want this.
Because again, every vet clinicis just like every business.
If the market demands it, theywill inevitably respond because
it's what the customer wants.
A hundred percent.
One of the, one of the biggestfears of veterinarians is to

(01:19:36):
spend several thousand dollars ona product and expire on a shelf.
Oh yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Because
in order to do a lot of these things,you have to do quite an investment.
You basically need to havea laboratory in your place.
You have to invest thousands of dollars.
So it would, that's a big fear.
Yeah.
And I, I know because Iknow many veterinarians who

(01:19:58):
don't have the equipment.
They just send me the horses.
No, you, you do it
right.
You, you go and do it.
But they're, they're good enough torecognize that they don't have it, and
they want what's best for the horse.
So they'll, they'll send it to usfor, they do everything else, and
then we'll do the, the, the therapiesand, and that is, if there's a demand,

(01:20:20):
the vets will get it, I promise.
Mm-hmm.
That's
what a great way to endto wrap up the party.
Awesome.
Thank
you so much, Alberto.
You're very welcome.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
I hope I added value toyou and your audience.
Yeah.
And we are here for you.

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Dear Horse World, It’s Dr. Alberto Rullan: The Future of Healing Is Here—But is the Industry Ready?

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