February 18, 2025 • 42 mins
Belinda Kroll discusses her journey as an indie author, focusing on cozy fantasy romance set in the Victorian era. She has been self-publishing since 2003 but recently expanded her focus. Belinda's writing process involves using a dedicated journal, ProWritingAid, and Atticus for formatting. She balances writing with illustrating, using Kickstarter for funded projects. Belinda emphasizes the importance of finding joy in writing, using tools like Notion for story bibles, and maintaining a community. She is currently working on "An Uncanny Bargain," the third book in her "Hesitant Medium" series, and offers various creative products through her Shopify store.
Connect with Belinda here:
Visit her website: www.worderella.com
Follow her on Instagram: www.instagram.com/worderella
Belinda’s Bio:
Belinda Kroll writes and illustrates cozy historical fantasy, where Jane Austen vocabulary meets modern sass. She is obsessed with eyeglasses, Korean dramas, home renovation and cooking shows, dancing the lindy hop, and petting every dog that allows her to do so. She lives with her family in Ohio.
Belinda’s Letter to You:
Dear Indie Author,
It's ok to listen to all the podcasts, read all the articles, follow all the big names.
Just know that they're talking about what worked for them, at that time, in that book industry climate.
Pick and choose what resonates and build your own plan, piece by piece.
Experiment. Fail early and often so you learn quickly.
Build resilience and trust in yourself.
At the end of the day, you have to decide what's right for you and your life.
Good luck, you can do this.
Belinda
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shonda Ramsey (00:00):
Shonda. Hi, I'm Shonda Ramsey, your host and
(00:06):
fellow indie author. Are youoverwhelmed at the thought of
publishing your book byyourself? Has fear kept you
frozen in place, unable to writeeven the first word of your
book, not knowing the steps youneed to take shouldn't stop you
from writing. That's why I'veasked for help from some amazing
industry professionals,published authors and others who
(00:26):
are in the same situation asyou, to share their knowledge on
the self publishing process.
Welcome to Dear indie author,where we inspire creative
independence and every writer.
Hey, everyone. It's Shonda, andI am here with my friend
Belinda, and we are going to getstarted with these rapid fire
(00:49):
icebreaker questions. Are youready for those?
Belinda (00:51):
I am.
Shonda Ramsey (00:52):
You are all right. Here we go. Do you
believe in soulmates?
Belinda (00:57):
Oh, well, we went deep, like we did. You know, I think
that they're probably I thinkyou can have a soulmate, but I
think you can also have multiplesoulmates depending on where you
are in your life, because youchange throughout your life. So
someone who may have been yoursoulmate when you were 16 may
not be the same person if youwere to meet them when you were
(01:19):
36 for instance. So yeah, ohyeah. I think, I think you can
have a soulmate, but I thinkit's totally situational and
contextual to where you are.
Shonda Ramsey (01:28):
Awesome. I love that. This is my favorite
question to ask Romance Writers,by the way. So all Romance
Writers get this question first.
Oh, what is the last song youlistened to?
Belinda (01:42):
The last song I listened to? Oh, I was grocery
shopping, and the song you knowin the store was Christmas
vacation.
Shonda Ramsey (01:52):
Nice. Do you like spring or summer better? I
Belinda (01:59):
think I like spring better just because I do not
enjoy sweating.
Shonda Ramsey (02:05):
Yeah, it's not as hot. That's funny. What is a
place you most wish to travel to
Belinda (02:13):
Jane Austin's house?
Shonda Ramsey (02:15):
Yeah, that would be awesome. That would be really
awesome. Do you prefer a nightin or a night out,
Belinda (02:22):
a night in.
Shonda Ramsey (02:24):
Yeah, here's another tough one for you. Does
love at first sight exist?
Belinda (02:30):
So this is kind of funny, because I distinctly
remember the night I met Mr.
Husband, my husband. We likewere friends for two years, but
like the moment I like, thefirst time I ever saw him. It's
like, very crystal clear corememory for me. I remember, like,
going home that night and beinglike, mom I met this guy, like,
this really sweet smile. So Ithink you can have love at first
(02:55):
sight, but that doesn't mean youhave to act upon it.
Shonda Ramsey (02:59):
I like that.
That's smart. That's good.
That's really good. I like that.
I never really thought of itthat way, but I know what you're
talking about. When I met myhusband, the same thing. It's a
very distinct core memory. And Iremember telling my best friend
that I was going to marry himsomeday.
Belinda (03:16):
I think, I think I've been hanging out with him for
like, three months, and I, like,turned to, like, a co workers,
like, I'm gonna marry him somedays, like you're not even
dating him yet, right? Well,when you know you know, yeah,
when you know you know,
Shonda Ramsey (03:29):
that's funny.
What is your favorite snack?
Belinda (03:33):
Ooh, um, depends on what I'm doing. But, like, my
favorite mindless snack would beTwizzlers. Um, but I am, like a
salty, sweet sort of person, soI love, like the caramel cheddar
popcorn mix.
Shonda Ramsey (03:50):
Yeah, that's really good, all three at once.
What makes you hopeful?
Belinda (04:00):
Ooh, what makes me hopeful? My kids?
Shonda Ramsey (04:06):
I like that. The younger generation always full
of hope.
Belinda (04:09):
Yeah, definitely, yeah.
Shonda Ramsey (04:11):
Do you like dawn or dusk better
Belinda (04:15):
dusk,
Shonda Ramsey (04:17):
when the stars are first coming out?
Belinda (04:20):
Like orangey, purpley, yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (04:23):
yeah, yeah. What is your favorite place to write?
Belinda (04:27):
I do love writing in my little home library cocoon that
I've built, yeah, um. Butotherwise, I am constantly
seeking a new cozy spot to writein quiet so coffee shop, if it's
a library, anything a tea shop,I write cozy stuff, so I want to
(04:49):
feel cozy as I'm writing it.
Shonda Ramsey (04:52):
That's good. What motivates you the most?
Belinda (04:56):
My anxiety
Shonda Ramsey (04:59):
is that. Because of the deadlines.
Belinda (05:02):
Well, you know, that's funny, because, like, I don't
give myself deadlines, yeah, butso i think i Well, okay, so my
facetious answer is my anxiety.
But like, I do think that I justhave this, like compulsion to
create things. And so you cantell when I haven't made
something in a while, because Iget really cranky. And so I
(05:23):
think that part of thatmotivation is like to be known
and heard and seen. And I thinkthat may be true for maybe a lot
of creatives. We have very richinner worlds. So part of, I
think part of my motivation, isactually like, I'm trying to
unpack what's happening in myown brain. So, hey, let's do the
(05:45):
thing
Shonda Ramsey (05:48):
all the things that you see and think of, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Describe yourwriting style in one word.
Belinda (05:56):
Can it be one name?
Shonda Ramsey (05:57):
Sure.
Belinda (05:58):
Jane Austin,
Shonda Ramsey (06:02):
that works well.
Belinda (06:06):
Otherwise, I'd probably say, like, cheeky, cheeky,
Shonda Ramsey (06:10):
yeah, I like that too. Well. Welcome again. Can
you start by telling us a littlebit more about yourself? Yeah.
Belinda (06:18):
So hi everybody. My name is Belinda Kroll. I, as
I've sort of hinted, I writecozy fantasy romance,
specifically in the Victorianera, which, depending on who you
talk to, is historical, isVictorian, is gas lamp. So it
all just depends on who you'retalking to, based in Ohio. And
(06:41):
have, you know, a house, familywork full time. So writing is
not my full time gig. I don'twant it to be my full time gig.
And I have recently just sortof, I've sort of expanded some
of the things I'm doing with mywriting, though, and trying to
make it more joyful. So yeah,that's probably a good start
right
Shonda Ramsey (07:00):
there. Yeah, that's great. Can you give us a
brief overview of your books andthe genres you write in?
Belinda (07:06):
Yes, so I kind of bounced around for a little bit.
I have been self publishing,technically speaking, since 2003
Wow, but you wouldn't know itfrom my backlog, because it
takes me, like, seven years, orused to take me seven years to
write a book. So I have onegenre, which is the one I'm
leaning into. It's the cozyfantasy, specifically romantic,
(07:32):
you know, sweet, no spice. It's,you know, it's just fun. And
then I do have a couple of youngadult, just straight historical
fiction books. The last Aprilactually won an international
award in 2017 so that was prettyexciting, yeah, but then it,
then I immediately realized,like, I don't want to write
young adult the rest of my life.
So I was like, Okay, well, youknow, thank you. So, yeah, so I
(07:54):
do that. And then, and then I dohave my sort of non fiction
line, which is really just morejournals for Pantsers and
discovery writers. And then Ihave expanded my hesitant medium
series, which is the series I'mfocusing on now, the cozy gas
(08:18):
lamp, fantasy romance withghosts, annoying ghosts, and I'm
starting to illustrate them,because I used to do that a lot,
and I missed it. So
Shonda Ramsey (08:30):
yeah, I like that. So how did you develop the
unique blend of cozy, gas lampromantic?
Belinda (08:37):
You know, it's so funny, because technically, so I
wrote my name is trentwood. Backin 2010 we did not have words
like cozy fantasy or gas lamp orromantic sea. These are all
words that have come out in thelast year or so. Yeah, but my
first book for this series waspublished in 2010 and I had a
really hard time finding myaudience, because I was saying
(08:58):
things like whimsical, Gothic,like romantic mystery, although
there's not a lot of mystery init, it was just, it was a really
hard niche to find. And thenduring quarantine, you know,
legends and lattes startedgetting real big, and, you know,
everyone was talking about thevibes, and I was like, Well, I'm
all about the vibes. And myvibes are, it's escapist, it's
(09:21):
fun. There's low stakes. I'vealways been obsessed with the
Victorian era, actually, becauseof so many one fashion changes
two, a lot of civil rightschanges happened during that
era, and we had a long way to gobeyond that. But still, a lot of
(09:41):
things happened. IndustrialRevolution, industrial
revolution, so a lot of stuffhappened that during that time.
And I just have always sort ofdreamed that magic there's like,
just like another magical worldthat we just can't get to, yeah,
um. And so, you know, growingup, I was watching things like.
The other moon, and Buffy theVampire Slayer and Charmed, you
(10:05):
know, Lois and Clark The NewAvengers of Superman. I mean,
just so many, so many fantasythings were on TV, Beetlejuice,
you know. And so I just wasconstantly, I think, diving into
the fantasy world withoutrealizing it. I love
interpersonal dynamics. So thebest, one of the best ways to
(10:27):
study interpersonal dynamics isin a romance. So it all just
kind of came together. You know,it really, what happened, I
think, was I've had all theseelements. I've been writing with
these elements, but now wefinally have words for it, so
people can understand what I'mtrying to do.
Shonda Ramsey (10:44):
Yeah, that makes it easier, for sure, to be able
to find your audience with thenewer words and the rise too for
indie authors, which is great,so you can start to find those
who love what you write, whichis, which is pretty awesome. So
you said that your books, if youcould sum it up into one word,
it would be a person, which isJane Austin. So you also, I
(11:08):
believe, when you signed up,said that it has a vocabulary
with modern sass. So can youtell us more about your
inspiration for this uniquestyle? I
Belinda (11:18):
think part of it is just, it's me. I've read Pride
and Prejudice, I think 29 times.
I probably have 29 differenteditions around my house
somewhere. I even bought theaudiobook so that way, if I'm
having a rough day, I can justturn it on with my phone and
listen to it on the commutehome. It's just like this very
grounding, centralizing thingfor me. And I think because I've
(11:42):
read Pride and Prejudice sooften, my writing style comes
out very Jane Austen esque, andthat's usually the thing I get
told the most of like, I havenever read a modern author like
you. And I'm like, that'sprobably because half my brain
is Jane Austen. Now, from howmany times I've just absorbed
this story, yeah, and I justlove her twinkling dialog, and
(12:04):
it's like sparkling. And I loveher. And I'm I'm not even as
deep as Jane. You know, sheoften has commentary, social
commentary, that's immediatelybelow the surface. I don't
always go to the commentarylevel, but I think that is a
huge contributor to my style.
And then the other half of thatwith the modern SAS is just, you
(12:28):
know, I'm writing stories aboutVictorian women who can speak to
ghosts and wish they couldn't,and the sweet men who love them.
And so if you are willing tosuspend your disbelief that we
can chat with ghosts, then wecan also suspend this belief and
say these Victorian women can bepretty modern and can be really
sassy, and you can see yourselfin them, yeah, um, so I think
(12:52):
that's it was an accidentalthing. I think it's just
something that honed over timeas I kept writing my, you know,
a couple of my friends were,they had picked up my book, and
they were like, I see you inthis. How do I see you in this?
And I'm like, Yeah, I know. Ilike, I'm not married at all.
And they're like, Yeah, butlike, I could see you saying,
what Mary's saying? I would go,yeah, yeah. Like, they're pieces
(13:12):
of me. They get into all myheroines. Yes, you know, not the
whole thing that's
Shonda Ramsey (13:16):
pretty neat. I like that. You do that. What
motivated you to start writingand illustrating your own books.
Honestly,
Belinda (13:23):
it was seeing other authors do it. I was following
Hannah Sandvig and I mean chowon Instagram, and their
Instagram feeds were so pretty.
And I was like, what? How arethey doing this? And I finally
was like, going through theirfeeds, and I realized they're
making their own art. They'reillustrating their own books.
Why didn't I ever think to dothat? I miss drawing so much I
(13:46):
used to. I had a whole comicbook story that I had, like,
that was my, one of my seniorprojects in high school. So that
was, I think that was a big partof it, was just seeing other
people do it and trying tofigure out, okay, like, what are
the tools that I need to getthat done? And you know, how
much work Am I putting on myshoulders by doing this,
Shonda Ramsey (14:08):
by doing all of it, yeah, yeah, by doing all the
things, as I like to call it. Imean, when you're a creative who
also does illustrations anddesign, it's kind of goes hand
in hand,
Belinda (14:22):
yeah? And I like to think of it, it's like a, it's
like a creative outlet thatdoesn't take up space in my
house, yeah? Because that's whatalways taught me before with
creating art. I used to createcanvases of art, you know, but I
only have so much wall space,yeah, and so. And I figured, you
know, people aren't going towant my art as gifts. Maybe they
would, I don't know. But youknow, digital art doesn't take
(14:44):
up any space,
Shonda Ramsey (14:46):
not physical, just the digital kind, yeah,
which you can always get moreof. Yes, yeah. You have a
variety of interests, fromKorean dramas to dancing the
Lindy hop. How do these hobbiesinfluence your writing and
creative process? So
Belinda (15:04):
the Korean dramas definitely, I there is a whole
phase where a lot of the romcoms and Korean dramas were
ghost stories, and it wasperfect, like I was able to,
like, you know, write off halfof my Netflix bill because I was
only watching stories thathelped me understand how other
(15:24):
people think about ghosts andhow it can be funny, how it can
be scary. So it was research forme, yeah, I think too, because
of where Korean dramas tend tostop when it comes to intimacy,
that also is research. You know,I tried I stick to the No spice.
Or I actually heard someone theother day saying they should
(15:46):
the, we're the Spice Girls era.
So, you know, I write baby spicestuff, not Scary Spice. That's
funny. So I think definitelyKorean dramas have influenced me
there Lindy Hop that is acreative outlet, but it's
physical. And, you know, whenyou're a writer, you're sitting,
(16:08):
you're often sitting incontorted, you know, like I'm
sitting on a sofa and I'm allhere, and here's my laptop,
like, up in my lap, and sohaving and then you're doing it
by yourself too. I mean, I havea writers group that I attend.
But you know, most of my sort ofgestation for my stories happens
in my brain when I'm alone orthe middle of the night,
(16:30):
something like that. So havingthe ability to go and social
dance with people and like,socialize, get to be out and
about, and then also move, justmove my body. Lindy Hop
especially, is great for, like,lower back pain, because so much
of it is about holding your coreand holding your own weight, and
then knowing where yourpartner's weight is. So it's,
(16:51):
it's a, it's an excellent, Ithink, balance for my, like,
long, solitary, you know, solid,solo, social things that I'm
doing, and then, okay, let's getup, let's move. Let's get 15,000
steps in one dance. You know,that sort of thing that's
Shonda Ramsey (17:09):
pretty neat. I also feel like dance is so free,
and you can just feel reallyfree. And for me, anytime you do
something that makes you feelfree, it kind of releases that
creativity block that you tendto get, which is really nice
too. Sure, 100% can you tell usmore about bright bird press and
what inspired you to createbullet journal, inspired
(17:31):
stationery for creatives andcaregivers?
Belinda (17:34):
Yeah, mostly because I needed them myself. So bright
bird press is technically my, Iguess I'll call it my micro
imprint, right? I publish all mybooks under bright bird press. I
took like, a seven year breakbetween writing books. We had
bought a house, we had a couplekids, we had some elderly pets
(17:56):
that passed away, so there wasjust a lot going on, and I
didn't have the creativity tohave characters in my head, but
I was constantly looking for away to help me organize my
thoughts in such a chaotic time.
Yeah, and I was into bulletjournaling. I was using it for
work, actually. And I think if Ithink it's writer Carol who
(18:17):
created it, and I started makingmy own bullet journals, but then
focusing on just writing andhaving, like, a collection for
here are some, you know, hereare some comp titles. Here's are
some, you know, covers that Iwant to keep in mind. And then I
had a writer friend who said,hey, that's really cool. Where'd
(18:39):
you get that? It's like, well, Imade it, and then next thing I
knew, I was hand creating bulletjournals for other people. I'd
buy a journal for them. I'dwrite out all the page numbers,
I'd write out collections andhave an index for them. And then
I thought, this is notsustainable. I'm gonna get
carpal tunnel doing this foreverybody. And I, you know, I
used to be on the high schoolnewspaper I knew how to use
(19:00):
InDesign, so I translated itinto a journal, and again, the
words matter. So for a longtime, I didn't know how to say
what I was doing, becausethey're undated, they're they're
empty, but they also are so richbecause they're full of Have you
thought about this? Have youthought about that? And also the
back half is like pre ranscribbles just, just know, have
(19:22):
the space you need. So my wholegoal is, if you're writing at
all, if you're thinking,thinking about your writing at
all, that's a win, becausethere's a lot going on in
everyone's lives. And I don'tthe thing that I dislike about
most journals in the store isthey're dated. And so once you
miss a couple days, now you havethis unnecessary guilt, like, Oh
(19:45):
no, I missed a couple days. I'mnever going to get those days
back. It's like you are doingother things. That's fine. So I
am, I am 100% like, undatedjournal girl, I don't, I don't
want the journal to punish. You.
I want the journal to be thereready for you when you're ready
for it. Yeah. So that's reallywhere all that came from. And
(20:06):
then I made differentvariations. I had one that was
very much focused on, like amonthly challenge. So there's
different spreads for that. One,the caregiver one, I couldn't
find a newborn baby log that Ilike, so I made my own friends.
Wanted to know where I got it.
All right, let's just fill it upon throw it up on the Etsy
store. Yeah, yeah. So that'sreally how a lot of it happened.
And it was great because it wasstill a creative outlet, but I
(20:30):
didn't have to think ofbackstory and plot and what's
the next thing was, you know,just it was a much more low key
sort of activity, which I thinkgot me through quarantine, for
sure, got me through, you know,the first three years of being a
mom. So there was, there was alot of just, I'm just gonna make
(20:54):
journals and ship them out topeople in some pretty tissue
paper and, you know, colorfulbags, and it's like I'm sending
care packages to writer friends,you know, yeah, a little bit
Shonda Ramsey (21:06):
of love. I like that. So you mentioned you took
a multi year break from writing.
What prompted you to return, andhow has your approach to writing
changed since then? Oh, that'ssuch
Belinda (21:16):
a good question. The writing came back to me in the
middle of the night as I wastaking care of my infant, and I
remember looking down at herthinking, one day, she's gonna
look at me and wonder, what,what else did mom do? You know,
she was, she just mom, andthat's never been my thing, you
(21:37):
know? I just, yeah, I've alwaysbeen very encouraging of people
to find their thing and stickwith it, even when it's hard. So
I'm, you know, helping my babyin the middle of the night. And
this character pops into myhead, fully formed, and she's
like this, like, this blackGhostbuster in Victorian
England, like, kicking ghostbutt, like she does, like, like
a tuck roll thing. It's like, Iwatch a little movie in my head.
(22:00):
I just thought, Oh, my God, whois she? Like, I might be
hallucinating because it's 3amand I haven't had much sleep.
And, you know, the baby, that'swhat I went with it, yeah. And
so what happened was, I hadwanted to make, uh, haunting my
front wood into a series. Ididn't know how to do it,
(22:21):
because at the time I wasreading fantasy series, I hadn't
been reading romance series, andI forgot that romance series
have two flavors, the connectedstory across the whole series of
books and the standalones thatmaybe they're just in the same
universe or something in sametown. And once I realized, like,
wait a minute, like at the endof the one book, The one guy
(22:43):
does not get picked, and maybehe can have a redeeming arc,
because he's kind of spineless,and maybe the girl that you know
so it just, it just all, itbecame a bunch of what ifs,
yeah, and it just came so fullyformed. I do have more of a
structure. I'm, I still wouldsay I'm a cancer, but I do at
(23:03):
least have the beats in mind.
And I know we're going to talklater about some tools that we
like to use. But there are,there are just, like, one or two
things that every time I start anew story, or start thinking
about a new story, I pull thisbook out and I'm like, Hmm,
well, how would, how would Iaccomplish this beat? Because
it's, you know, it's almost likea mile marker in the story. So I
want to make sure thateveryone's following with me.
(23:25):
And that is has been a hugechange, because now I feel like
I can pick the story up againand keep going, even if it's
been a couple days because I'mdoing family stuff or work
stuff. Yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (23:38):
that's really good. I like that. I like that.
It came to you like that in themiddle of the night, too. So
that's pretty inspirational.
That's really neat. What doesyour typical writing process
look like from initial idea tofinish manuscript?
Belinda (23:51):
Initial idea is usually I have, like I was just saying,
there's a particular scene thatpops into my head. It's usually
two it's usually two characters,usually the hero and the
heroine. They're having somesort of witty back and forth.
And then I spend the rest of thetime trying to figure out, how
did we get there? It's very Idon't write in order. I write as
(24:13):
the scenes come to me, and thenI'm patchworking everything
together. I have a dedicatedjournal, and that journal does
have a legend, so I know thatI've copied something from the
journal into the computer byputting a little red check mark.
If it's a question mark, thatmeans I don't have to answer
that question at some point inthe story. If it's an
exclamation point, it's like,oh, I surprised myself, you
(24:35):
know. So that's kind of cool. SoI do have a dedicated journal,
and I try to keep that with me,so that way, no matter where I
am, I have a space to jot stuffdown. But I also will use, you
know, notes on my phone,everything goes into a Word doc.
I will use, I have, like, aspecific formatting for, like,
(24:57):
heading four, which I only. Useheading forward to say, fill the
gap. And the formatting ofheading for is like, bold 18
point yellow highlighter back,yeah. So then as I look through
the outline of the file, I canfigure out where am I supposed
to fill the gap? Because then Isee, like, here are all the gaps
I need to fill. Yeah, and, andthen if I get stuck. Because
(25:20):
usually I I write to the I writein the beginning, I get
somewhere close to the middle,and I usually get really stuck.
So then I will write the end,and then I'll write backwards.
If this was the ending, how didwe get there? Well, if that's
what happened, how did we getthere? And I just keep asking,
Well, how do we? How do we untilwe until this on the two sides
come together, print it all out,attack it with the red pen, go
(25:41):
back through. I'll use Prowriting aid to catch the simple
errors. Yeah. And then I send mystory on to my editor, and she
usually does two or threerounds. We do two or three
rounds together. In themeantime, while I'm waiting for
the edits to come through, I'mdesigning the cover. I'm, you
(26:02):
know, finalizing the otherthings, you know, the ISBN
assignment, and getting alisting up on my Shopify. And,
you know, starting to get draftsready across the different
platforms. So that way, when thestory is done, it's a matter of
just plop it and go. Once I havethe final story, I drop it into
(26:25):
Atticus. I do all of my bookinterior formatting using that
tool. And I prefer that. Eventhough I did buy it, I bought a
Mac thinking I was going to usevellum, but then I realized it's
a client software, and I needthe flexibility that if I want
to edit something, changesomething, fix something. I want
to be able to log into anycomputer, make that change,
(26:45):
download the file, upload itagain. Be good to go. I really
dislike the idea of being in a Ineed to be at my station to get
things done. Yeah. So I useAtticus. I use Canva for my book
covers. Is a combination of myart and then simple elements.
That layer, like this book, Ithink, has 25 layers in it. We
(27:10):
wouldn't know it by looking atit, but, yeah, all those things
come together to make it, youknow, one, the one design, nice,
um, yeah. And then I, then Ifeel like, from there, it's
uploading everything, hoping,you know, I didn't have any last
minute typos, and which always
Shonda Ramsey (27:27):
happens, which always happens.
Belinda (27:32):
And, you know, I'll tell my newsletter, tell my
Patreon, tell people on socialmedia, and, you know, and that's
it. Try to let it live andbreathe from there. Yep.
Shonda Ramsey (27:43):
And here it is love that you illustrate your
own books and design yourinteriors and covers, like you
said. So how do you balance thecreative aspects of writing and
illustration? Is it simply justwaiting until it goes into the
editing process so that you canthen kind of free yourself up to
do that? Is that? How you dothat? Or
Belinda (28:04):
I feel like I'm still figuring out my method. So I
I've been using Kickstarter tohelp with my illustrated books,
to figure out why is there evenan audience for this? Like, do
people like my art? You know? SoI did haunting Miss trentwood as
a Kickstarter that book I'dwritten in 2010 so the story was
done. I just had to make thepictures that I always had in my
(28:27):
head. There were certain scenesthat always stuck out to me,
yeah, so that was prettystraightforward. The book had
been done for a while. I justgot to make the pictures and
reformat stuff with a spirit ofengagement, because I knew I
wanted to illustrate it. Therewere moments where I was writing
a scene because I knew I wantedto draw the scene which feels
kind of chicken and egg, andthen it was a little frustrating
(28:49):
when it was like, I'm not goodenough artists to actually make
the scene that's in my head onthe paper, you know. So then
you're, you know, editing andtrying to figure things out. But
I feel like now, I think that iskind of becoming more of my
method methodology, maybe, isthat I'm as I'm writing the
story, I'm looking for where,where would this be a good scene
(29:13):
to illustrate? So as I'm goingand then, you know, and then
also, while I'm writing thestory, I'm finding reference
pictures, so that way, yes, whenI send it to my editor, I can
deep dive into making theimages. And I, you know, I
usually start pen and paper, putit into my iPad, use procreate
(29:34):
to do the final rendering andstuff. Yeah. So, yeah, I feel
like my creativity has seasons,and the writing season is sort
of long and tenuous and like alot of thinking, and then by the
right about the time I'm aboutto get burned out on the story,
and I send it to my editor, andthen I refresh myself with the
story, because now I'm drawingthe characters and I'm drawing
(29:57):
and so I'm falling back in lovewith them from a completely
different. Or angle. So then bythe time the story comes back,
it's like, oh, right, okay,yeah. Like, I've, I've been
living with them, but I've notbeen living with the words. So
now I feel like that has reallyhelped with my editing. That's
Shonda Ramsey (30:11):
good. I like that. That's really good. How do
you stay motivated and find joyin writing, especially
considering it's your sidehustle and not your full time
job.
Belinda (30:21):
I think that's a big part of it is not allowing it to
be my full time job. I do have afairly creative job at work, so
there is some of that alreadytaken care of, but it's
sometimes. Sometimes motivationis really difficult. You know?
It's you have. You've got a lotgoing on in your life. You'd
love to just sit down and write,but you gotta do tours around
(30:44):
the house. You gotta make surepeople are fed. You gotta make,
you know, like there's, there'sa lot, and there was a little.
For a while there I was tryingto burn the candle at both ends,
doing work, doing family stuff,and then I would start writing
at 10pm till like, midnight,yeah, but Midnight is then I
get, like, my second wins, andI'm up till two, oh, on a work
(31:05):
night. So that really drainedme, and I had to completely
recalibrate and be like, this isnot working. And if I want to
keep doing this, I have to makeit sustainable for me as a
system. And that's actually oneof the criteria, if I'm not
having fun, it doesn't belong inthe system, because I'm already
(31:26):
doing so much, and I put so muchof my energy into this, even as
a side hustle. Yeah, that if I'mdoing something and it's not
fun, then it's it's just notworth my investment, just not
worth my time. Because you haveto learn how to say no in order
to figure out where you can putmore energy into the yes,
Shonda Ramsey (31:45):
yeah, no. That makes, makes perfect sense. And
sometimes, too, you end upsaying no to other things too,
that you don't think that youwould say no, because if it's
something that you really wantto do, you just there's always
that give and take, like yougotta have balance and
everything. And I get that, Ican feel that for sure, for
(32:06):
aspiring authors who might feeloverwhelmed, what advice would
you give them about startingwith writing? I'm
Belinda (32:12):
a little rebellious sometimes, and people like,
there's a part of me that'slike, okay, like, I know
everyone's saying you have to doit this way, but you, you really
don't, yeah, you really don't.
Whatever way that you'restarting to write that's the
right way for you to write. Sodon't worry about it. It's the
first draft. It's, it's draftzero. I even I do a draft zero
because I give myself permissionto be terrible. Yeah, I like and
(32:35):
then that first printoutattacking with the red pen.
That's draft one, because I'veactually sat down and been super
intentional about the wholething. Yeah, it is totally fine
to write out of order. It'stotally fine to write from the
back to the front. It's fine towrite completely in order, like
as if it were a movie. They'reall fine. Yeah, we all have we
(32:57):
all have our own brains. We haveour different contexts. So in
the same way that, like twoviolin players won't actually
play the same, even thoughthey're trained the same, they
still have their own personalityand flavor to it, I feel like
it's the same thing withwriters. Yes, you'll be trained
and you'll have rules andguidelines, but you'll also
learn when you can break them,but you're not going to learn
(33:20):
that if you don't start puttingpen to paper. Yeah, and exercise
that muscle. That's
Shonda Ramsey (33:25):
awesome. I like that. I think too, to kind of
piggyback on that, that this iswhere the whole comparison thing
starts to when you hear so manypeople say, Well, you have to do
it this way, this way, and thenthis way. It's like, I'm with
you. I say the same thing. No,you have to find what works for
you. We are all different, andso what works for me is not
(33:47):
going to work for you, andprobably vice versa. Like, for
instance, panting. I wanted tobe a pantser so bad, I was
determined that that was how Iwrote. And then I discovered
plotting, and I'm like, yep,nope. I'm a plotter, so it's
just, you just gotta find whatworks for you, and the only way
(34:08):
you're gonna find it is by trialand error. So I never would have
guessed that plotting to theextent that I do, is really what
makes me a successful writer, asopposed to trying to discover
the whole thing as it's coming.
Now, I do give myself room fordiscovery in the story, but I
have to have a plot. Yeah, it'smy direction. It's like my
(34:30):
roadmap. Well,
Belinda (34:33):
that's, and that's exactly because I, if I know too
much of the story, I loseinterest. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's
it's terrible. I mean, I knowI'm supposed to be writing book
three, but I started dreaming upbook four. I was like, wait a
minute, I haven't finished bookthree. You have to stop. You
have to finish book three. Justbecause you know what's going to
(34:53):
happen doesn't mean you're done.
Right,
Shonda Ramsey (34:57):
right?
Belinda (34:58):
That's kind of the danger for my. Brain of like, if
I know too much, then like, allthe fun gets taken out.
Shonda Ramsey (35:06):
I love that. What specific steps can writers take
to find joy in writing, even ifthey don't want it to be their
full time job? I think
Belinda (35:14):
finding a community can help, whether it's digital or in
person. I think your reading isa huge input. Yeah, so if you're
reading books that don't bringjoy to you, you may not be
writing books that bring joy toyou. So you need to find the
books that really speak to you,that resonate for whatever
(35:36):
reason, and figure out why youlove those books, and then
figure out how much of that canyou bring into your own writing
in your own way. You know,that's what makes it fun, I
think, is you're not trying tobe someone else, but you are
getting inspired and takingmoments from life and whatever
(35:59):
to really get a good to get itto get your own mix. Yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (36:04):
yeah. I like that. Can you share some
specific resources or tools thatyou find invaluable for writers,
whether for brainstorming,writing, editing or publishing,
for
Belinda (36:14):
sure? So I mentioned earlier, there's a book that I
use. It's called Romancing thebeat by I think Gwen Hayes. And
I love it because it's supershort, you know, and she has a
cheat sheet at the back, so onceyou've read the book, you could
just go to the back every singletime once you need it. I love
that, because, again, it kind ofgives me my roadmap. It gives me
the you're the big rocks thathave to be there, yeah, and I
(36:38):
can figure everything else outalong the way. So love that I
use notion for my, I guess,story Bible. So that's sort of
like a it's like an onlinerelational database, in a way.
In the same vein, it's like airtable and a couple other things
they have, they have beenbranching out more into a suite
of things like calendars andwhatever else. But it's nice
(37:02):
because I can create a characterand have that be an entity, and
then I can say, well, thischaracter is tagged and is
actually in book one, two andthree, but their story is Book
Two, right? So they're going tohave more things about book two
tagged for them. So then I getthis, like little database, in a
way, as I'm as I'm creatingthings, so I can then reference
(37:24):
and be like, well, when did thatthing happen, and were they even
in that book? You know, Imentioned Atticus. I use Atticus
for my formatting, gives youprint and ebook, and I use Canva
for my not only my book covers,but also my social media, if you
get the pro account, which isabout the same amount as like
(37:47):
one of the Adobe subscriptions,I think a year. I can't remember
which one it is, but the benefitof using Canva is you can
schedule your social mediaposts, and you can have a
content calendar, and they allowyou to create your brand and
have so so I can be reallyconsistent on social media,
because I don't have to hunt forthe fonts that I like to use,
the colors that I like to use,they're all already
Shonda Ramsey (38:09):
there.
Belinda (38:11):
So that has been invaluable, I think, and I'll,
I'll stick with those. Probablythat's my tool.
Shonda Ramsey (38:17):
Those are great tools. Are there any upcoming
projects or initiatives you'reexcited about sharing with the
listeners.
Belinda (38:22):
I am working on Book Three of the hesitant mediums.
It's called an uncanny bargain,and I'm super excited about it,
because it's going to be theultimate force proximity. The
tagline I have right now is twosouls, one body. No problem.
That's
Shonda Ramsey (38:39):
interesting.
Belinda (38:40):
Oh, it's going to be there's gonna be a lot of
ridiculous moments, I think, inthis story. But I'm, I'm both.
I'm drafting it, I'm findingreference photos, so that way,
when I'm ready to startillustrating, I have that ready
to go. I've already starteddrafting the Kickstarter
campaign, even though I haven't.
Maybe at the time of releasingthis episode, I may have just
started rolling out thefulfillment of the Kickstarter
(39:01):
campaign for a spiritedengagement, but, yeah, I think
that. And then also justcontinuing to lean into direct
sales and just figuring out, youknow how to really lean into my
Shopify, I make a lot of extrathings, like I have a whole
handbook for it's called SirHubert. Sir Hubert's handbook
for the recently haunted andit's basically a spoof off of
(39:25):
the Beetlejuice handbook for therecently deceased. Yeah. So if
you have a ghost problem, youcan read my book. If you become
a ghost, you can read theBeetlejuice book right, and you
can only get that at my storeright. And I think that's the
thing I love about the store, Ican I can make the manual that
they mention in the book.
Shonda Ramsey (39:44):
Yeah, I can do that. Yeah,
Belinda (39:46):
that's pretty cool.
It's my store. I can do whateverI want, yeah? So I can be as
creative and silly and goofy asI want. And then people can
stumble and find me, and they'llthink, gosh, she's there's a lot
going on here. And. That's
Shonda Ramsey (40:00):
That's another beautiful thing about being an
indie author. You can createyour own products that kind of
go with it. Your companionproducts, is what I call those.
Yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
Where can my listeners find you?
So
Belinda (40:14):
I am most active on Instagram, so that I'm there as
word Arella, so thinkCinderella, but with words. That
is also my website,wordarella.com and that's my
Shopify and a couple otherthings and and if you just want
the quick links, you can go towordarella.com/links and you'll
(40:36):
see all the things where youfind me on Amazon, that sort of
stuff, awesome.
Shonda Ramsey (40:41):
That's a good way to do that. Is there anything
else you'd like to share withthe audience?
Belinda (40:45):
I know we covered a lot today. We did.
Shonda Ramsey (40:49):
We did, no.
Belinda (40:51):
I mean, I think it's this, is this has been
excellent. And, you know, justwith all the things we have
covered, and I, you know, it'sjust, I just wish we could all
give ourselves a break. Youknow, like there's a lot going
on, and if you're not enjoyingwriting, it's okay take a break.
I took a seven year break, butduring all that time, I think
(41:13):
the wheels were turning, theback burner was working, so that
when, when I was ready, when Ihad the capacity to be that
flavor of creative. Again, itcame out full force. Yeah, so
again, like it may not be at theright time right now, that
doesn't mean it's never going tohappen.
Shonda Ramsey (41:33):
I'd love for you to share the letter you wrote to
our audience.
Belinda (41:35):
Yes, all right, here we go, dear indie author, it's okay
to listen to all the podcasts,read all the articles, all the
big names, just know thatthey're talking about what works
for them at that time in thatbook industry, climate, pick and
choose what resonates. And buildyour own plan, piece by piece.
(41:58):
Experiment fail early and often,so you learn quickly, build
resilience and trust inyourself, and at the end of the
day, you have to decide what'sright for you and your life.
Good luck. You can do this.
Belinda,
Shonda Ramsey (42:13):
thanks for listening. I'm your host, Shonda
Ramsey for the show notes andlinks. Head over to
Shondaramsey.com and don'tforget to join in on the
conversation on socials. Be sureto subscribe so you don't miss a
show and write a review whereveryou listen to podcasts until
next time, always remember everywriter deserves to see their
words in print. You.
Shonda. Hi, I'm Shonda Ramsey, your host and
(00:06):
fellow indie author. Are youoverwhelmed at the thought of
publishing your book byyourself? Has fear kept you
frozen in place, unable to writeeven the first word of your
book, not knowing the steps youneed to take shouldn't stop you
from writing. That's why I'veasked for help from some amazing
industry professionals,published authors and others who
(00:26):
are in the same situation asyou, to share their knowledge on
the self publishing process.
Welcome to Dear indie author,where we inspire creative
independence and every writer.
Hey, everyone. It's Shonda, andI am here with my friend
Belinda, and we are going to getstarted with these rapid fire
(00:49):
icebreaker questions. Are youready for those?
Belinda (00:51):
I am.
Shonda Ramsey (00:52):
You are all right. Here we go. Do you
believe in soulmates?
Belinda (00:57):
Oh, well, we went deep, like we did. You know, I think
that they're probably I thinkyou can have a soulmate, but I
think you can also have multiplesoulmates depending on where you
are in your life, because youchange throughout your life. So
someone who may have been yoursoulmate when you were 16 may
not be the same person if youwere to meet them when you were
(01:19):
36 for instance. So yeah, ohyeah. I think, I think you can
have a soulmate, but I thinkit's totally situational and
contextual to where you are.
Shonda Ramsey (01:28):
Awesome. I love that. This is my favorite
question to ask Romance Writers,by the way. So all Romance
Writers get this question first.
Oh, what is the last song youlistened to?
Belinda (01:42):
The last song I listened to? Oh, I was grocery
shopping, and the song you knowin the store was Christmas
vacation.
Shonda Ramsey (01:52):
Nice. Do you like spring or summer better? I
Belinda (01:59):
think I like spring better just because I do not
enjoy sweating.
Shonda Ramsey (02:05):
Yeah, it's not as hot. That's funny. What is a
place you most wish to travel to
Belinda (02:13):
Jane Austin's house?
Shonda Ramsey (02:15):
Yeah, that would be awesome. That would be really
awesome. Do you prefer a nightin or a night out,
Belinda (02:22):
a night in.
Shonda Ramsey (02:24):
Yeah, here's another tough one for you. Does
love at first sight exist?
Belinda (02:30):
So this is kind of funny, because I distinctly
remember the night I met Mr.
Husband, my husband. We likewere friends for two years, but
like the moment I like, thefirst time I ever saw him. It's
like, very crystal clear corememory for me. I remember, like,
going home that night and beinglike, mom I met this guy, like,
this really sweet smile. So Ithink you can have love at first
(02:55):
sight, but that doesn't mean youhave to act upon it.
Shonda Ramsey (02:59):
I like that.
That's smart. That's good.
That's really good. I like that.
I never really thought of itthat way, but I know what you're
talking about. When I met myhusband, the same thing. It's a
very distinct core memory. And Iremember telling my best friend
that I was going to marry himsomeday.
Belinda (03:16):
I think, I think I've been hanging out with him for
like, three months, and I, like,turned to, like, a co workers,
like, I'm gonna marry him somedays, like you're not even
dating him yet, right? Well,when you know you know, yeah,
when you know you know,
Shonda Ramsey (03:29):
that's funny.
What is your favorite snack?
Belinda (03:33):
Ooh, um, depends on what I'm doing. But, like, my
favorite mindless snack would beTwizzlers. Um, but I am, like a
salty, sweet sort of person, soI love, like the caramel cheddar
popcorn mix.
Shonda Ramsey (03:50):
Yeah, that's really good, all three at once.
What makes you hopeful?
Belinda (04:00):
Ooh, what makes me hopeful? My kids?
Shonda Ramsey (04:06):
I like that. The younger generation always full
of hope.
Belinda (04:09):
Yeah, definitely, yeah.
Shonda Ramsey (04:11):
Do you like dawn or dusk better
Belinda (04:15):
dusk,
Shonda Ramsey (04:17):
when the stars are first coming out?
Belinda (04:20):
Like orangey, purpley, yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (04:23):
yeah, yeah. What is your favorite place to write?
Belinda (04:27):
I do love writing in my little home library cocoon that
I've built, yeah, um. Butotherwise, I am constantly
seeking a new cozy spot to writein quiet so coffee shop, if it's
a library, anything a tea shop,I write cozy stuff, so I want to
(04:49):
feel cozy as I'm writing it.
Shonda Ramsey (04:52):
That's good. What motivates you the most?
Belinda (04:56):
My anxiety
Shonda Ramsey (04:59):
is that. Because of the deadlines.
Belinda (05:02):
Well, you know, that's funny, because, like, I don't
give myself deadlines, yeah, butso i think i Well, okay, so my
facetious answer is my anxiety.
But like, I do think that I justhave this, like compulsion to
create things. And so you cantell when I haven't made
something in a while, because Iget really cranky. And so I
(05:23):
think that part of thatmotivation is like to be known
and heard and seen. And I thinkthat may be true for maybe a lot
of creatives. We have very richinner worlds. So part of, I
think part of my motivation, isactually like, I'm trying to
unpack what's happening in myown brain. So, hey, let's do the
(05:45):
thing
Shonda Ramsey (05:48):
all the things that you see and think of, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Describe yourwriting style in one word.
Belinda (05:56):
Can it be one name?
Shonda Ramsey (05:57):
Sure.
Belinda (05:58):
Jane Austin,
Shonda Ramsey (06:02):
that works well.
Belinda (06:06):
Otherwise, I'd probably say, like, cheeky, cheeky,
Shonda Ramsey (06:10):
yeah, I like that too. Well. Welcome again. Can
you start by telling us a littlebit more about yourself? Yeah.
Belinda (06:18):
So hi everybody. My name is Belinda Kroll. I, as
I've sort of hinted, I writecozy fantasy romance,
specifically in the Victorianera, which, depending on who you
talk to, is historical, isVictorian, is gas lamp. So it
all just depends on who you'retalking to, based in Ohio. And
(06:41):
have, you know, a house, familywork full time. So writing is
not my full time gig. I don'twant it to be my full time gig.
And I have recently just sortof, I've sort of expanded some
of the things I'm doing with mywriting, though, and trying to
make it more joyful. So yeah,that's probably a good start
right
Shonda Ramsey (07:00):
there. Yeah, that's great. Can you give us a
brief overview of your books andthe genres you write in?
Belinda (07:06):
Yes, so I kind of bounced around for a little bit.
I have been self publishing,technically speaking, since 2003
Wow, but you wouldn't know itfrom my backlog, because it
takes me, like, seven years, orused to take me seven years to
write a book. So I have onegenre, which is the one I'm
leaning into. It's the cozyfantasy, specifically romantic,
(07:32):
you know, sweet, no spice. It's,you know, it's just fun. And
then I do have a couple of youngadult, just straight historical
fiction books. The last Aprilactually won an international
award in 2017 so that was prettyexciting, yeah, but then it,
then I immediately realized,like, I don't want to write
young adult the rest of my life.
So I was like, Okay, well, youknow, thank you. So, yeah, so I
(07:54):
do that. And then, and then I dohave my sort of non fiction
line, which is really just morejournals for Pantsers and
discovery writers. And then Ihave expanded my hesitant medium
series, which is the series I'mfocusing on now, the cozy gas
(08:18):
lamp, fantasy romance withghosts, annoying ghosts, and I'm
starting to illustrate them,because I used to do that a lot,
and I missed it. So
Shonda Ramsey (08:30):
yeah, I like that. So how did you develop the
unique blend of cozy, gas lampromantic?
Belinda (08:37):
You know, it's so funny, because technically, so I
wrote my name is trentwood. Backin 2010 we did not have words
like cozy fantasy or gas lamp orromantic sea. These are all
words that have come out in thelast year or so. Yeah, but my
first book for this series waspublished in 2010 and I had a
really hard time finding myaudience, because I was saying
(08:58):
things like whimsical, Gothic,like romantic mystery, although
there's not a lot of mystery init, it was just, it was a really
hard niche to find. And thenduring quarantine, you know,
legends and lattes startedgetting real big, and, you know,
everyone was talking about thevibes, and I was like, Well, I'm
all about the vibes. And myvibes are, it's escapist, it's
(09:21):
fun. There's low stakes. I'vealways been obsessed with the
Victorian era, actually, becauseof so many one fashion changes
two, a lot of civil rightschanges happened during that
era, and we had a long way to gobeyond that. But still, a lot of
(09:41):
things happened. IndustrialRevolution, industrial
revolution, so a lot of stuffhappened that during that time.
And I just have always sort ofdreamed that magic there's like,
just like another magical worldthat we just can't get to, yeah,
um. And so, you know, growingup, I was watching things like.
The other moon, and Buffy theVampire Slayer and Charmed, you
(10:05):
know, Lois and Clark The NewAvengers of Superman. I mean,
just so many, so many fantasythings were on TV, Beetlejuice,
you know. And so I just wasconstantly, I think, diving into
the fantasy world withoutrealizing it. I love
interpersonal dynamics. So thebest, one of the best ways to
(10:27):
study interpersonal dynamics isin a romance. So it all just
kind of came together. You know,it really, what happened, I
think, was I've had all theseelements. I've been writing with
these elements, but now wefinally have words for it, so
people can understand what I'mtrying to do.
Shonda Ramsey (10:44):
Yeah, that makes it easier, for sure, to be able
to find your audience with thenewer words and the rise too for
indie authors, which is great,so you can start to find those
who love what you write, whichis, which is pretty awesome. So
you said that your books, if youcould sum it up into one word,
it would be a person, which isJane Austin. So you also, I
(11:08):
believe, when you signed up,said that it has a vocabulary
with modern sass. So can youtell us more about your
inspiration for this uniquestyle? I
Belinda (11:18):
think part of it is just, it's me. I've read Pride
and Prejudice, I think 29 times.
I probably have 29 differenteditions around my house
somewhere. I even bought theaudiobook so that way, if I'm
having a rough day, I can justturn it on with my phone and
listen to it on the commutehome. It's just like this very
grounding, centralizing thingfor me. And I think because I've
(11:42):
read Pride and Prejudice sooften, my writing style comes
out very Jane Austen esque, andthat's usually the thing I get
told the most of like, I havenever read a modern author like
you. And I'm like, that'sprobably because half my brain
is Jane Austen. Now, from howmany times I've just absorbed
this story, yeah, and I justlove her twinkling dialog, and
(12:04):
it's like sparkling. And I loveher. And I'm I'm not even as
deep as Jane. You know, sheoften has commentary, social
commentary, that's immediatelybelow the surface. I don't
always go to the commentarylevel, but I think that is a
huge contributor to my style.
And then the other half of thatwith the modern SAS is just, you
(12:28):
know, I'm writing stories aboutVictorian women who can speak to
ghosts and wish they couldn't,and the sweet men who love them.
And so if you are willing tosuspend your disbelief that we
can chat with ghosts, then wecan also suspend this belief and
say these Victorian women can bepretty modern and can be really
sassy, and you can see yourselfin them, yeah, um, so I think
(12:52):
that's it was an accidentalthing. I think it's just
something that honed over timeas I kept writing my, you know,
a couple of my friends were,they had picked up my book, and
they were like, I see you inthis. How do I see you in this?
And I'm like, Yeah, I know. Ilike, I'm not married at all.
And they're like, Yeah, butlike, I could see you saying,
what Mary's saying? I would go,yeah, yeah. Like, they're pieces
(13:12):
of me. They get into all myheroines. Yes, you know, not the
whole thing that's
Shonda Ramsey (13:16):
pretty neat. I like that. You do that. What
motivated you to start writingand illustrating your own books.
Honestly,
Belinda (13:23):
it was seeing other authors do it. I was following
Hannah Sandvig and I mean chowon Instagram, and their
Instagram feeds were so pretty.
And I was like, what? How arethey doing this? And I finally
was like, going through theirfeeds, and I realized they're
making their own art. They'reillustrating their own books.
Why didn't I ever think to dothat? I miss drawing so much I
(13:46):
used to. I had a whole comicbook story that I had, like,
that was my, one of my seniorprojects in high school. So that
was, I think that was a big partof it, was just seeing other
people do it and trying tofigure out, okay, like, what are
the tools that I need to getthat done? And you know, how
much work Am I putting on myshoulders by doing this,
Shonda Ramsey (14:08):
by doing all of it, yeah, yeah, by doing all the
things, as I like to call it. Imean, when you're a creative who
also does illustrations anddesign, it's kind of goes hand
in hand,
Belinda (14:22):
yeah? And I like to think of it, it's like a, it's
like a creative outlet thatdoesn't take up space in my
house, yeah? Because that's whatalways taught me before with
creating art. I used to createcanvases of art, you know, but I
only have so much wall space,yeah, and so. And I figured, you
know, people aren't going towant my art as gifts. Maybe they
would, I don't know. But youknow, digital art doesn't take
(14:44):
up any space,
Shonda Ramsey (14:46):
not physical, just the digital kind, yeah,
which you can always get moreof. Yes, yeah. You have a
variety of interests, fromKorean dramas to dancing the
Lindy hop. How do these hobbiesinfluence your writing and
creative process? So
Belinda (15:04):
the Korean dramas definitely, I there is a whole
phase where a lot of the romcoms and Korean dramas were
ghost stories, and it wasperfect, like I was able to,
like, you know, write off halfof my Netflix bill because I was
only watching stories thathelped me understand how other
(15:24):
people think about ghosts andhow it can be funny, how it can
be scary. So it was research forme, yeah, I think too, because
of where Korean dramas tend tostop when it comes to intimacy,
that also is research. You know,I tried I stick to the No spice.
Or I actually heard someone theother day saying they should
(15:46):
the, we're the Spice Girls era.
So, you know, I write baby spicestuff, not Scary Spice. That's
funny. So I think definitelyKorean dramas have influenced me
there Lindy Hop that is acreative outlet, but it's
physical. And, you know, whenyou're a writer, you're sitting,
(16:08):
you're often sitting incontorted, you know, like I'm
sitting on a sofa and I'm allhere, and here's my laptop,
like, up in my lap, and sohaving and then you're doing it
by yourself too. I mean, I havea writers group that I attend.
But you know, most of my sort ofgestation for my stories happens
in my brain when I'm alone orthe middle of the night,
(16:30):
something like that. So havingthe ability to go and social
dance with people and like,socialize, get to be out and
about, and then also move, justmove my body. Lindy Hop
especially, is great for, like,lower back pain, because so much
of it is about holding your coreand holding your own weight, and
then knowing where yourpartner's weight is. So it's,
(16:51):
it's a, it's an excellent, Ithink, balance for my, like,
long, solitary, you know, solid,solo, social things that I'm
doing, and then, okay, let's getup, let's move. Let's get 15,000
steps in one dance. You know,that sort of thing that's
Shonda Ramsey (17:09):
pretty neat. I also feel like dance is so free,
and you can just feel reallyfree. And for me, anytime you do
something that makes you feelfree, it kind of releases that
creativity block that you tendto get, which is really nice
too. Sure, 100% can you tell usmore about bright bird press and
what inspired you to createbullet journal, inspired
(17:31):
stationery for creatives andcaregivers?
Belinda (17:34):
Yeah, mostly because I needed them myself. So bright
bird press is technically my, Iguess I'll call it my micro
imprint, right? I publish all mybooks under bright bird press. I
took like, a seven year breakbetween writing books. We had
bought a house, we had a couplekids, we had some elderly pets
(17:56):
that passed away, so there wasjust a lot going on, and I
didn't have the creativity tohave characters in my head, but
I was constantly looking for away to help me organize my
thoughts in such a chaotic time.
Yeah, and I was into bulletjournaling. I was using it for
work, actually. And I think if Ithink it's writer Carol who
(18:17):
created it, and I started makingmy own bullet journals, but then
focusing on just writing andhaving, like, a collection for
here are some, you know, hereare some comp titles. Here's are
some, you know, covers that Iwant to keep in mind. And then I
had a writer friend who said,hey, that's really cool. Where'd
(18:39):
you get that? It's like, well, Imade it, and then next thing I
knew, I was hand creating bulletjournals for other people. I'd
buy a journal for them. I'dwrite out all the page numbers,
I'd write out collections andhave an index for them. And then
I thought, this is notsustainable. I'm gonna get
carpal tunnel doing this foreverybody. And I, you know, I
used to be on the high schoolnewspaper I knew how to use
(19:00):
InDesign, so I translated itinto a journal, and again, the
words matter. So for a longtime, I didn't know how to say
what I was doing, becausethey're undated, they're they're
empty, but they also are so richbecause they're full of Have you
thought about this? Have youthought about that? And also the
back half is like pre ranscribbles just, just know, have
(19:22):
the space you need. So my wholegoal is, if you're writing at
all, if you're thinking,thinking about your writing at
all, that's a win, becausethere's a lot going on in
everyone's lives. And I don'tthe thing that I dislike about
most journals in the store isthey're dated. And so once you
miss a couple days, now you havethis unnecessary guilt, like, Oh
(19:45):
no, I missed a couple days. I'mnever going to get those days
back. It's like you are doingother things. That's fine. So I
am, I am 100% like, undatedjournal girl, I don't, I don't
want the journal to punish. You.
I want the journal to be thereready for you when you're ready
for it. Yeah. So that's reallywhere all that came from. And
(20:06):
then I made differentvariations. I had one that was
very much focused on, like amonthly challenge. So there's
different spreads for that. One,the caregiver one, I couldn't
find a newborn baby log that Ilike, so I made my own friends.
Wanted to know where I got it.
All right, let's just fill it upon throw it up on the Etsy
store. Yeah, yeah. So that'sreally how a lot of it happened.
And it was great because it wasstill a creative outlet, but I
(20:30):
didn't have to think ofbackstory and plot and what's
the next thing was, you know,just it was a much more low key
sort of activity, which I thinkgot me through quarantine, for
sure, got me through, you know,the first three years of being a
mom. So there was, there was alot of just, I'm just gonna make
(20:54):
journals and ship them out topeople in some pretty tissue
paper and, you know, colorfulbags, and it's like I'm sending
care packages to writer friends,you know, yeah, a little bit
Shonda Ramsey (21:06):
of love. I like that. So you mentioned you took
a multi year break from writing.
What prompted you to return, andhow has your approach to writing
changed since then? Oh, that'ssuch
Belinda (21:16):
a good question. The writing came back to me in the
middle of the night as I wastaking care of my infant, and I
remember looking down at herthinking, one day, she's gonna
look at me and wonder, what,what else did mom do? You know,
she was, she just mom, andthat's never been my thing, you
(21:37):
know? I just, yeah, I've alwaysbeen very encouraging of people
to find their thing and stickwith it, even when it's hard. So
I'm, you know, helping my babyin the middle of the night. And
this character pops into myhead, fully formed, and she's
like this, like, this blackGhostbuster in Victorian
England, like, kicking ghostbutt, like she does, like, like
a tuck roll thing. It's like, Iwatch a little movie in my head.
(22:00):
I just thought, Oh, my God, whois she? Like, I might be
hallucinating because it's 3amand I haven't had much sleep.
And, you know, the baby, that'swhat I went with it, yeah. And
so what happened was, I hadwanted to make, uh, haunting my
front wood into a series. Ididn't know how to do it,
(22:21):
because at the time I wasreading fantasy series, I hadn't
been reading romance series, andI forgot that romance series
have two flavors, the connectedstory across the whole series of
books and the standalones thatmaybe they're just in the same
universe or something in sametown. And once I realized, like,
wait a minute, like at the endof the one book, The one guy
(22:43):
does not get picked, and maybehe can have a redeeming arc,
because he's kind of spineless,and maybe the girl that you know
so it just, it just all, itbecame a bunch of what ifs,
yeah, and it just came so fullyformed. I do have more of a
structure. I'm, I still wouldsay I'm a cancer, but I do at
(23:03):
least have the beats in mind.
And I know we're going to talklater about some tools that we
like to use. But there are,there are just, like, one or two
things that every time I start anew story, or start thinking
about a new story, I pull thisbook out and I'm like, Hmm,
well, how would, how would Iaccomplish this beat? Because
it's, you know, it's almost likea mile marker in the story. So I
want to make sure thateveryone's following with me.
(23:25):
And that is has been a hugechange, because now I feel like
I can pick the story up againand keep going, even if it's
been a couple days because I'mdoing family stuff or work
stuff. Yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (23:38):
that's really good. I like that. I like that.
It came to you like that in themiddle of the night, too. So
that's pretty inspirational.
That's really neat. What doesyour typical writing process
look like from initial idea tofinish manuscript?
Belinda (23:51):
Initial idea is usually I have, like I was just saying,
there's a particular scene thatpops into my head. It's usually
two it's usually two characters,usually the hero and the
heroine. They're having somesort of witty back and forth.
And then I spend the rest of thetime trying to figure out, how
did we get there? It's very Idon't write in order. I write as
(24:13):
the scenes come to me, and thenI'm patchworking everything
together. I have a dedicatedjournal, and that journal does
have a legend, so I know thatI've copied something from the
journal into the computer byputting a little red check mark.
If it's a question mark, thatmeans I don't have to answer
that question at some point inthe story. If it's an
exclamation point, it's like,oh, I surprised myself, you
(24:35):
know. So that's kind of cool. SoI do have a dedicated journal,
and I try to keep that with me,so that way, no matter where I
am, I have a space to jot stuffdown. But I also will use, you
know, notes on my phone,everything goes into a Word doc.
I will use, I have, like, aspecific formatting for, like,
(24:57):
heading four, which I only. Useheading forward to say, fill the
gap. And the formatting ofheading for is like, bold 18
point yellow highlighter back,yeah. So then as I look through
the outline of the file, I canfigure out where am I supposed
to fill the gap? Because then Isee, like, here are all the gaps
I need to fill. Yeah, and, andthen if I get stuck. Because
(25:20):
usually I I write to the I writein the beginning, I get
somewhere close to the middle,and I usually get really stuck.
So then I will write the end,and then I'll write backwards.
If this was the ending, how didwe get there? Well, if that's
what happened, how did we getthere? And I just keep asking,
Well, how do we? How do we untilwe until this on the two sides
come together, print it all out,attack it with the red pen, go
(25:41):
back through. I'll use Prowriting aid to catch the simple
errors. Yeah. And then I send mystory on to my editor, and she
usually does two or threerounds. We do two or three
rounds together. In themeantime, while I'm waiting for
the edits to come through, I'mdesigning the cover. I'm, you
(26:02):
know, finalizing the otherthings, you know, the ISBN
assignment, and getting alisting up on my Shopify. And,
you know, starting to get draftsready across the different
platforms. So that way, when thestory is done, it's a matter of
just plop it and go. Once I havethe final story, I drop it into
(26:25):
Atticus. I do all of my bookinterior formatting using that
tool. And I prefer that. Eventhough I did buy it, I bought a
Mac thinking I was going to usevellum, but then I realized it's
a client software, and I needthe flexibility that if I want
to edit something, changesomething, fix something. I want
to be able to log into anycomputer, make that change,
(26:45):
download the file, upload itagain. Be good to go. I really
dislike the idea of being in a Ineed to be at my station to get
things done. Yeah. So I useAtticus. I use Canva for my book
covers. Is a combination of myart and then simple elements.
That layer, like this book, Ithink, has 25 layers in it. We
(27:10):
wouldn't know it by looking atit, but, yeah, all those things
come together to make it, youknow, one, the one design, nice,
um, yeah. And then I, then Ifeel like, from there, it's
uploading everything, hoping,you know, I didn't have any last
minute typos, and which always
Shonda Ramsey (27:27):
happens, which always happens.
Belinda (27:32):
And, you know, I'll tell my newsletter, tell my
Patreon, tell people on socialmedia, and, you know, and that's
it. Try to let it live andbreathe from there. Yep.
Shonda Ramsey (27:43):
And here it is love that you illustrate your
own books and design yourinteriors and covers, like you
said. So how do you balance thecreative aspects of writing and
illustration? Is it simply justwaiting until it goes into the
editing process so that you canthen kind of free yourself up to
do that? Is that? How you dothat? Or
Belinda (28:04):
I feel like I'm still figuring out my method. So I
I've been using Kickstarter tohelp with my illustrated books,
to figure out why is there evenan audience for this? Like, do
people like my art? You know? SoI did haunting Miss trentwood as
a Kickstarter that book I'dwritten in 2010 so the story was
done. I just had to make thepictures that I always had in my
(28:27):
head. There were certain scenesthat always stuck out to me,
yeah, so that was prettystraightforward. The book had
been done for a while. I justgot to make the pictures and
reformat stuff with a spirit ofengagement, because I knew I
wanted to illustrate it. Therewere moments where I was writing
a scene because I knew I wantedto draw the scene which feels
kind of chicken and egg, andthen it was a little frustrating
(28:49):
when it was like, I'm not goodenough artists to actually make
the scene that's in my head onthe paper, you know. So then
you're, you know, editing andtrying to figure things out. But
I feel like now, I think that iskind of becoming more of my
method methodology, maybe, isthat I'm as I'm writing the
story, I'm looking for where,where would this be a good scene
(29:13):
to illustrate? So as I'm goingand then, you know, and then
also, while I'm writing thestory, I'm finding reference
pictures, so that way, yes, whenI send it to my editor, I can
deep dive into making theimages. And I, you know, I
usually start pen and paper, putit into my iPad, use procreate
(29:34):
to do the final rendering andstuff. Yeah. So, yeah, I feel
like my creativity has seasons,and the writing season is sort
of long and tenuous and like alot of thinking, and then by the
right about the time I'm aboutto get burned out on the story,
and I send it to my editor, andthen I refresh myself with the
story, because now I'm drawingthe characters and I'm drawing
(29:57):
and so I'm falling back in lovewith them from a completely
different. Or angle. So then bythe time the story comes back,
it's like, oh, right, okay,yeah. Like, I've, I've been
living with them, but I've notbeen living with the words. So
now I feel like that has reallyhelped with my editing. That's
Shonda Ramsey (30:11):
good. I like that. That's really good. How do
you stay motivated and find joyin writing, especially
considering it's your sidehustle and not your full time
job.
Belinda (30:21):
I think that's a big part of it is not allowing it to
be my full time job. I do have afairly creative job at work, so
there is some of that alreadytaken care of, but it's
sometimes. Sometimes motivationis really difficult. You know?
It's you have. You've got a lotgoing on in your life. You'd
love to just sit down and write,but you gotta do tours around
(30:44):
the house. You gotta make surepeople are fed. You gotta make,
you know, like there's, there'sa lot, and there was a little.
For a while there I was tryingto burn the candle at both ends,
doing work, doing family stuff,and then I would start writing
at 10pm till like, midnight,yeah, but Midnight is then I
get, like, my second wins, andI'm up till two, oh, on a work
(31:05):
night. So that really drainedme, and I had to completely
recalibrate and be like, this isnot working. And if I want to
keep doing this, I have to makeit sustainable for me as a
system. And that's actually oneof the criteria, if I'm not
having fun, it doesn't belong inthe system, because I'm already
(31:26):
doing so much, and I put so muchof my energy into this, even as
a side hustle. Yeah, that if I'mdoing something and it's not
fun, then it's it's just notworth my investment, just not
worth my time. Because you haveto learn how to say no in order
to figure out where you can putmore energy into the yes,
Shonda Ramsey (31:45):
yeah, no. That makes, makes perfect sense. And
sometimes, too, you end upsaying no to other things too,
that you don't think that youwould say no, because if it's
something that you really wantto do, you just there's always
that give and take, like yougotta have balance and
everything. And I get that, Ican feel that for sure, for
(32:06):
aspiring authors who might feeloverwhelmed, what advice would
you give them about startingwith writing? I'm
Belinda (32:12):
a little rebellious sometimes, and people like,
there's a part of me that'slike, okay, like, I know
everyone's saying you have to doit this way, but you, you really
don't, yeah, you really don't.
Whatever way that you'restarting to write that's the
right way for you to write. Sodon't worry about it. It's the
first draft. It's, it's draftzero. I even I do a draft zero
because I give myself permissionto be terrible. Yeah, I like and
(32:35):
then that first printoutattacking with the red pen.
That's draft one, because I'veactually sat down and been super
intentional about the wholething. Yeah, it is totally fine
to write out of order. It'stotally fine to write from the
back to the front. It's fine towrite completely in order, like
as if it were a movie. They'reall fine. Yeah, we all have we
(32:57):
all have our own brains. We haveour different contexts. So in
the same way that, like twoviolin players won't actually
play the same, even thoughthey're trained the same, they
still have their own personalityand flavor to it, I feel like
it's the same thing withwriters. Yes, you'll be trained
and you'll have rules andguidelines, but you'll also
learn when you can break them,but you're not going to learn
(33:20):
that if you don't start puttingpen to paper. Yeah, and exercise
that muscle. That's
Shonda Ramsey (33:25):
awesome. I like that. I think too, to kind of
piggyback on that, that this iswhere the whole comparison thing
starts to when you hear so manypeople say, Well, you have to do
it this way, this way, and thenthis way. It's like, I'm with
you. I say the same thing. No,you have to find what works for
you. We are all different, andso what works for me is not
(33:47):
going to work for you, andprobably vice versa. Like, for
instance, panting. I wanted tobe a pantser so bad, I was
determined that that was how Iwrote. And then I discovered
plotting, and I'm like, yep,nope. I'm a plotter, so it's
just, you just gotta find whatworks for you, and the only way
(34:08):
you're gonna find it is by trialand error. So I never would have
guessed that plotting to theextent that I do, is really what
makes me a successful writer, asopposed to trying to discover
the whole thing as it's coming.
Now, I do give myself room fordiscovery in the story, but I
have to have a plot. Yeah, it'smy direction. It's like my
(34:30):
roadmap. Well,
Belinda (34:33):
that's, and that's exactly because I, if I know too
much of the story, I loseinterest. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's
it's terrible. I mean, I knowI'm supposed to be writing book
three, but I started dreaming upbook four. I was like, wait a
minute, I haven't finished bookthree. You have to stop. You
have to finish book three. Justbecause you know what's going to
(34:53):
happen doesn't mean you're done.
Right,
Shonda Ramsey (34:57):
right?
Belinda (34:58):
That's kind of the danger for my. Brain of like, if
I know too much, then like, allthe fun gets taken out.
Shonda Ramsey (35:06):
I love that. What specific steps can writers take
to find joy in writing, even ifthey don't want it to be their
full time job? I think
Belinda (35:14):
finding a community can help, whether it's digital or in
person. I think your reading isa huge input. Yeah, so if you're
reading books that don't bringjoy to you, you may not be
writing books that bring joy toyou. So you need to find the
books that really speak to you,that resonate for whatever
(35:36):
reason, and figure out why youlove those books, and then
figure out how much of that canyou bring into your own writing
in your own way. You know,that's what makes it fun, I
think, is you're not trying tobe someone else, but you are
getting inspired and takingmoments from life and whatever
(35:59):
to really get a good to get itto get your own mix. Yeah,
Shonda Ramsey (36:04):
yeah. I like that. Can you share some
specific resources or tools thatyou find invaluable for writers,
whether for brainstorming,writing, editing or publishing,
for
Belinda (36:14):
sure? So I mentioned earlier, there's a book that I
use. It's called Romancing thebeat by I think Gwen Hayes. And
I love it because it's supershort, you know, and she has a
cheat sheet at the back, so onceyou've read the book, you could
just go to the back every singletime once you need it. I love
that, because, again, it kind ofgives me my roadmap. It gives me
the you're the big rocks thathave to be there, yeah, and I
(36:38):
can figure everything else outalong the way. So love that I
use notion for my, I guess,story Bible. So that's sort of
like a it's like an onlinerelational database, in a way.
In the same vein, it's like airtable and a couple other things
they have, they have beenbranching out more into a suite
of things like calendars andwhatever else. But it's nice
(37:02):
because I can create a characterand have that be an entity, and
then I can say, well, thischaracter is tagged and is
actually in book one, two andthree, but their story is Book
Two, right? So they're going tohave more things about book two
tagged for them. So then I getthis, like little database, in a
way, as I'm as I'm creatingthings, so I can then reference
(37:24):
and be like, well, when did thatthing happen, and were they even
in that book? You know, Imentioned Atticus. I use Atticus
for my formatting, gives youprint and ebook, and I use Canva
for my not only my book covers,but also my social media, if you
get the pro account, which isabout the same amount as like
(37:47):
one of the Adobe subscriptions,I think a year. I can't remember
which one it is, but the benefitof using Canva is you can
schedule your social mediaposts, and you can have a
content calendar, and they allowyou to create your brand and
have so so I can be reallyconsistent on social media,
because I don't have to hunt forthe fonts that I like to use,
the colors that I like to use,they're all already
Shonda Ramsey (38:09):
there.
Belinda (38:11):
So that has been invaluable, I think, and I'll,
I'll stick with those. Probablythat's my tool.
Shonda Ramsey (38:17):
Those are great tools. Are there any upcoming
projects or initiatives you'reexcited about sharing with the
listeners.
Belinda (38:22):
I am working on Book Three of the hesitant mediums.
It's called an uncanny bargain,and I'm super excited about it,
because it's going to be theultimate force proximity. The
tagline I have right now is twosouls, one body. No problem.
That's
Shonda Ramsey (38:39):
interesting.
Belinda (38:40):
Oh, it's going to be there's gonna be a lot of
ridiculous moments, I think, inthis story. But I'm, I'm both.
I'm drafting it, I'm findingreference photos, so that way,
when I'm ready to startillustrating, I have that ready
to go. I've already starteddrafting the Kickstarter
campaign, even though I haven't.
Maybe at the time of releasingthis episode, I may have just
started rolling out thefulfillment of the Kickstarter
(39:01):
campaign for a spiritedengagement, but, yeah, I think
that. And then also justcontinuing to lean into direct
sales and just figuring out, youknow how to really lean into my
Shopify, I make a lot of extrathings, like I have a whole
handbook for it's called SirHubert. Sir Hubert's handbook
for the recently haunted andit's basically a spoof off of
(39:25):
the Beetlejuice handbook for therecently deceased. Yeah. So if
you have a ghost problem, youcan read my book. If you become
a ghost, you can read theBeetlejuice book right, and you
can only get that at my storeright. And I think that's the
thing I love about the store, Ican I can make the manual that
they mention in the book.
Shonda Ramsey (39:44):
Yeah, I can do that. Yeah,
Belinda (39:46):
that's pretty cool.
It's my store. I can do whateverI want, yeah? So I can be as
creative and silly and goofy asI want. And then people can
stumble and find me, and they'llthink, gosh, she's there's a lot
going on here. And. That's
Shonda Ramsey (40:00):
That's another beautiful thing about being an
indie author. You can createyour own products that kind of
go with it. Your companionproducts, is what I call those.
Yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
Where can my listeners find you?
So
Belinda (40:14):
I am most active on Instagram, so that I'm there as
word Arella, so thinkCinderella, but with words. That
is also my website,wordarella.com and that's my
Shopify and a couple otherthings and and if you just want
the quick links, you can go towordarella.com/links and you'll
(40:36):
see all the things where youfind me on Amazon, that sort of
stuff, awesome.
Shonda Ramsey (40:41):
That's a good way to do that. Is there anything
else you'd like to share withthe audience?
Belinda (40:45):
I know we covered a lot today. We did.
Shonda Ramsey (40:49):
We did, no.
Belinda (40:51):
I mean, I think it's this, is this has been
excellent. And, you know, justwith all the things we have
covered, and I, you know, it'sjust, I just wish we could all
give ourselves a break. Youknow, like there's a lot going
on, and if you're not enjoyingwriting, it's okay take a break.
I took a seven year break, butduring all that time, I think
(41:13):
the wheels were turning, theback burner was working, so that
when, when I was ready, when Ihad the capacity to be that
flavor of creative. Again, itcame out full force. Yeah, so
again, like it may not be at theright time right now, that
doesn't mean it's never going tohappen.
Shonda Ramsey (41:33):
I'd love for you to share the letter you wrote to
our audience.
Belinda (41:35):
Yes, all right, here we go, dear indie author, it's okay
to listen to all the podcasts,read all the articles, all the
big names, just know thatthey're talking about what works
for them at that time in thatbook industry, climate, pick and
choose what resonates. And buildyour own plan, piece by piece.
(41:58):
Experiment fail early and often,so you learn quickly, build
resilience and trust inyourself, and at the end of the
day, you have to decide what'sright for you and your life.
Good luck. You can do this.
Belinda,
Shonda Ramsey (42:13):
thanks for listening. I'm your host, Shonda
Ramsey for the show notes andlinks. Head over to
Shondaramsey.com and don'tforget to join in on the
conversation on socials. Be sureto subscribe so you don't miss a
show and write a review whereveryou listen to podcasts until
next time, always remember everywriter deserves to see their
words in print. You.
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