June 5, 2025 • 29 mins
When Professor Odette Best, Pro Vice-Chancellor (First Nations Strategy) at UniSQ discovered she was experiencing perimenopausal symptoms, she turned to her healthcare provider for answers, only to find a glaring absence of research, resources, and support specifically designed for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women.
"The last lot of research that we did or was done in Australia was about 12 years ago, and it was done by a group of non-Indigenous women and there were 10 women that they interviewed. That's it. That's the only body of research that has been done in the country around the menopausal or perimenopausal experiences of Indigenous women," she reveals in this eye-opening conversation.
Professor Best, who has worked in women's health for 35 years, doesn't just identify the problem - she's actively working toward solutions. After appearing at the "So Hot Right Now" event at the Sydney Opera House, she assembled a team of 32 mostly Indigenous women researchers from 13 universities to study the unique experiences of Aboriginal women traversing menopause.
The challenges are significant: funding bodies that create competition rather than collaboration, healthcare providers with minimal training on menopause and diagnostic tools that fail to incorporate cultural considerations..
During our conversation we examine how proper healthcare requires cultural understanding, appropriate funding, and research led by Indigenous women for Indigenous women.
Are we ready to acknowledge these gaps and take meaningful action to address them?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya (00:01):
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonia Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
(00:24):
Welcome to this week's episodeof Dare Menopause.
Today, I am super excited to bejoined by a guest that I've
wanted to chat to for quite awhile.
It impacted me more afterseeing you on stage at the
Sydney Opera House at the so HotRight Now event earlier this
year.
I'm speaking to ProfessorOdette Best.
Prof Best (00:43):
Welcome, odette, thank you, sonia, lovely to be
here.
Sonya (00:47):
It's awesome to have you here.
To make it a little bit easier,why don't you introduce
yourself and tell everybody alittle bit about who you are?
Okay, thank you.
Prof Best (00:56):
Well, my name is Odette Best.
First and foremost, I'd like toacknowledge the land where I am
today being recorded on, whichis the land of the Yugara and
the Yugarram people and in alittle town or city called
Ipswich.
Myself I'm an Indigenous woman.
I have two bloodlines through aset of grandparents which is
(01:18):
Goren Goren and Bontemora, andthat's through my grandmother,
who is still alive she's a veryold woman now we think about 106
, and that's through mygrandmother, who is still alive
she's a very old woman now wethink about 106, and that's my
Goren Goren bloodline.
And my Bontemora bloodline isthrough my grandfather, which
was her husband for a very longtime.
So that's a channel country wayout west in Queensland, a quite
(01:39):
stark and very beautifulcountry.
And by adoption I am also aKumbumburra Yugambeh woman.
So I didn't grow up with myblood family and I was adopted
by a mixed marriage couple backin the late 60s that they called
them, and my adopted dad, whois my dad, he's my dad, I love
my dad.
He's Kumbumburra Yugambeh, sothat's around Southport Gold
(02:00):
Coast and across the StradbrokeIsland, and it's his last name
that I absolutely proudly carrystill to this day.
I am a registered nurse andI've been a registered nurse for
a really really long timeprobably about 34, 35 years now
and I commenced my training atthe Princess Alexandra Hospital
in Brisbane back in the late 80s.
So I've worked for a very, verylong time as a nurse, in
(02:23):
different capacities andsettings, and I currently sit in
a role at the University ofSouthern Queensland as their
Pro-Guys Chancellor for FirstNations Strategies.
Sonya (02:33):
Amazing and thank you so much for that background into
your Indigenous family history.
I find that so fascinating.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
What I'm keen to hear from youabout first off, is what
inspired your focus intoIndigenous women's health and
midwifery.
Obviously you've got thatfamily connection, but from a
career perspective, whatinspired you to move into that
(02:54):
space?
Prof Best (02:56):
Yeah, good question.
When I got through my hospitaltraining at PA, I was very, very
clear that I wasn't going towork in a hospital.
I didn't like hospitals.
I was very, very clear that Iwasn't going to work in a
hospital.
I didn't like hospitals.
They smelt bad and it was just.
It was full of contested spacesfor me which were really hard to
navigate, and we didn't dealwith intersectionality very well
back then at all.
It wasn't even a term that hadbeen, you know, a phrase that
(03:18):
had been coined by KimberlyCrenshaw at that stage, and so I
always knew that I was destinedto work in Aboriginal health
and I just had to make thathappen.
And so for me I did go and workclinically at the Brisbane
Aboriginal and IslanderCommunity Health Service, as it
was called back then, and Iworked there for approximately a
decade and for me I wasparticularly interested in youth
(03:41):
health, but young women'shealth, more to the point, and
so I would eventually take onthe role working at Brisbane
Aboriginal Medical Service as aclinical coordinator of young,
at-risk Indigenous women andtheir sexual health.
So for me that was kind of likewhere it was just like oh, this
is really exciting, this isreally excellent.
(04:01):
I feel like I can have animpact.
I feel like I can lean intothis space.
I did attempt to do my midwiferybecause I had quite a bit of
pressure on me from differentpeople around.
Well, you need to be a midwife,you need to be a midwife.
We need more black midwives, weneed more Aboriginal midwives,
and I must admit it wasn'tsomething that I particularly
(04:23):
and naturally leant towards.
However, I did attempt to do mymidwifery down at the Martyr
Hospital in Brisbane and Ilasted seven weeks.
Yeah, when I'm going, yeah,this is so, not for me.
And so I rang back Uncle MickAdams, who was the chair of the
board at that time at theBrisbane Aboriginal Medical
Service, and was like crying andsobbing going Uncle Mick, have
(04:45):
you given my job away yet?
And he was like no, when do youwant to start back?
It was like I want to start onmy own.
I attempted my midwifery.
I never went back, so I neverworked in the space of midwifery
.
It was more sexual health foryoung, at-risk, indigenous women
.
Sonya (05:01):
Okay, and so I'm assuming this must have been 80s, 80s,
90s.
No that was 90s early 90s.
Prof Best (05:08):
Early 90s yep.
Sonya (05:10):
And what change have you seen in that time when it comes
to the health of Indigenouscommunities, and particularly
those young women that you wereso invested in helping from a
sexual health perspective aswell?
Prof Best (05:23):
There has been change , and in different respects over
different things.
So whilst I was also working atBrisbane Aboriginal Medical
Service, I would go and do someclinics and then I would end up
working there part-time andusually on weekends, at Bogger
Road Women's Prison, and I wasthe sexual health nurse in there
as well.
And one of the really big,fundamental changes that I did
(05:44):
see around helping Indigenouswomen full stop was sitting on
the founding board of anorganisation called Sisters
Inside, and that was very muchabout supporting Indigenous
women inside and as they journeyoutside of their prisons.
The other thing, I think andthat organisation still goes
(06:04):
today and it's based in Brisbaneand it has expanded out but the
level of support that it gavewomen was something we had never
seen in this country before.
So I'm really proud of that.
Having been attached to SistersInside, we now have more
Indigenous nurses we don't haveenough, clearly.
So that's also been a change.
(06:27):
And I think what has changed aswell is we see, have seen some
amazing indigenous researcherscoming through and doing really
amazing work in the space ofindigenous women, and when I
talk about that, I talk about,uh, people like lisa wop at um
australian national university.
Now she's a Taurus womanepidemiologist researcher and
she looks at cervical cancer inIndigenous women.
(06:49):
We have some better fundingwithin our Aboriginal medical
services around sexual healthand that's things like pap smear
clinics and specificallyfocusing on women's sexual
health.
So we certainly have got moreof that.
But of course there's reallybig gaps that are still there to
this day and hopefully we canstart to redress them,
(07:12):
especially around the area ofthe journey or traversing
perimenopause and menopause forIndigenous women.
There's just a dearth ofinformation out there for us.
Clinical services out there forus, resources out there for us,
they services out there for us,resources out there for us they
are nearly non-existent.
Sonya (07:27):
Wow, that's really sad.
As a very privileged whitewoman, I live in a city, I have
all the privilege literally itbreaks my heart when I hear that
there is such a gap that exists.
And I don't think it's just thecare, it's in the
acknowledgement of the fact thatthe experience for Indigenous
communities through midlife,that transition period, is just
(07:47):
so different to what is talkedabout, is researched.
And what do we whether it's weas a country, we as a nation, we
as a global community, have todo better to support our
Indigenous communities.
Look.
Prof Best (08:03):
Sonia, that's such a loaded question.
How long do we have, seriously?
Oh look, I think at the momentit's a very long road back for
the Indigenous community,clearly after the result of the
referendum in 23.
So that was a lost opportunityfor this nation to have a voice
to Parliament and to be able totalk at levels about things like
(08:27):
perimenopause and menopause,just saying so yeah, we've got a
long road back from that andthe acknowledgement of
Indigenous history andIndigenous occupation of this
continent is a very long way off.
The latest federal election thatwe had and I wasn't in the
country, I was actually in NewMexico, so I was being ping,
(08:49):
ping, pinged for hours and hoursfrom friends and I brought up
Anthony Green as you do, youknow your iPad to watch it.
Go down and watching a reallyugly campaign and a very
divisive campaign againstIndigenous people was just
terrible.
So we've got an incredibly longway to go in acknowledging the
(09:11):
history of this country,acknowledging our rightful place
in this country and,unfortunately, now having to
start to kind of like visualiseand conceptualise how we
actually are going to be able toraise really important health
issues and other issues forIndigenous people to government,
where we are seen and we areheard, because that opportunity
(09:32):
was, you know, really lost forthe no vote.
So, yeah, we've got a long wayto go, sonia.
Sonya (09:38):
I don't know how we get there and it's a real shame to
say that.
You know it's 2025 and that'sthe situation that we're in and
you know I hope that we do seesome progression towards change,
but yeah, it's, uh, it's hard.
So let's go back to offpolitics for a little bit, back
into some health topics whichmight be a little less loaded to
talk about.
(09:58):
The health is political though,but anyway well.
So is menopause somethingthat's talked about openly in
Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander communities?
Prof Best (10:11):
Yes, and no.
So, of course, as a menopausalwoman, of course I rely on my
girlfriends and my community andthe women within my world and
realm to talk about, and my ownperimenopause and menopause
journey has not been pleasant,has not been good, has not been
fun, and so, of course, you know, there are always those times
(10:33):
and those moments and thoseelements where it's just like,
oh my God, what are you doingfor the lack of sleep?
And, jesus, what's your GPtelling you?
Or I found this really goodresource.
I think maybe this will help us.
So, of course, on an individuallevel, yes, I talk to my
community around.
You know, not only support, butabout perimenopause and
menopause and what they evenmean, and I will be really
(10:55):
incredibly honest when I say Ionly started talking about this,
as I think a lot of women dowhen it actually starts
happening to us I think it's afairly common experience for a
lot of us women is, we havethese niggly symptoms, but we
don't have the language toactually go oh that's
perimenopause or oh that'smenopause.
(11:17):
And that certainly happened forme for a number of years before
I finally was in a privilegedenough position to be able to
afford to go to a private dinerand go, can you talk to me about
what's happening with my body?
Because I don't know and Idon't have language.
But it was actually one of mydearest friends who's now passed
(11:38):
.
He's not with us any longer andhe grew up in a household of
five sisters and he was the baby, spoiled baby.
I was down in Melbourne for theweekend and I was with him and
his partner, rodney, and Istarted doing the profuse
sweating that we all do at somestage.
And one of them looked at meand was just like what's going
(11:58):
on with the sweating?
And Jeffy, my best friend, mybestie, said to me it's clear
what's going on, this ismenopause stuff.
And I just looked at him likewhat, like what, like what.
I've got my best mate, who's aboy, who's telling me that I'm
going through.
It was like what, um?
And we were using the wordmenopause.
We didn't even have thatlanguage of perimenopause back
then, so even my languageprobably wasn't right, but it
(12:22):
was a word that I could anchorit to, to go, oh right, oh yeah,
that's when it started for meand I went to a gyne and said,
like what's going on for me?
And then the wholeperimenopause language came into
being and this is what'shappening with your body.
So that triggered me to go onmy own journey of self-discovery
and I'm still discovering a lotof stuff around it.
(12:45):
So, yeah, it's not as widelytalked about in the community as
it could and should be, andthat's what we've got to change.
But yeah, of course we talkabout it, you know, amongst our
friends in our community, going,oh my God, this is so full on.
Sonya (13:02):
Well, it's interesting and I'm pleased that that's the
case, because I have readdifferent narratives where, when
it's brought up that we ignorethis huge sector of our
community, when we do talk aboutmenopause here in Australia and
that is in our digits I've readnarratives where it's like,
well, it's different, becauseculturally it's not something
that they talk about, and I'mlike really, how do they know
(13:23):
that?
Prof Best (13:24):
I'm not saying it's not the case, but the reality is
, when you make motherhoodstatements like that and that's
what I call a motherhoodstatement, there's no research
that's been done.
Sonia, the last lot of researchthat we did or was done in
Australia was, I want to say,about 12 years ago, 13 years ago
, and it came out of WesternAustralia and it was done by a
group of non-Indigenous womenand there I think, I want to say
(13:46):
, 10 women that they interviewed.
So that's it.
That's the only body ofresearch that has been done in
the country around themenopausal or perimenopausal
experiences of Indigenous women.
So when we have thesemotherhood statements of, oh,
they don't want to talk about it.
My question back to that iswell, how do you know that?
Good question, how do you knowthat?
(14:08):
Yeah, totally, because we don'tget asked, we don't get spoken
to.
So, yeah, there's some othergood statements that go on
around Indigenous health thatjust have to stop around
menopause and perimenopause.
Sonya (14:19):
So then, what does need to change from a research
perspective?
That's different for theIndigenous communities, the
Aboriginal, the Torres Straitcommunities, what research that
we know needs to happen.
It's different for theIndigenous communities, the
Aboriginal, the Torres Straitcommunities, what you know,
research that we know needs tohappen at a general level.
Prof Best (14:38):
But what research do we need?
More specific?
We need more specific researcharound Indigenous women, because
not all women are the sameright and there are cultural
contexts to all women and that's, you know, around our
ethnicities and around ouridentities.
So we do need to have researchdone with Indigenous women, for
Indigenous women, but reallyimportantly by Indigenous women,
because the assumption in thata lot of Indigenous research
(15:02):
that occurs is that if we lookat some of the stuff that
Indigenous people say, there'sprobably a myth out there that
it's absolutely inherentlycorrect.
For all you know, prior toinvasion and colonisation we had
250 countries, nations,indigenous nations in Australia.
So the assumption is thatwhat's good for one group of
Indigenous people will be theright thing for all Indigenous
people and that's just actuallynot the case.
(15:23):
So there's a lot of diversityamongst Indigenous voices that
has to be represented withinresearch that it's not just one
group of Indigenous women andAboriginal trans men that we
need to be talking to.
It's lots and lots ofIndigenous women from right
across the country, from urbanto metro to regional to remote,
to very remote to the TorresStrait Islands.
(15:45):
So there has to be thediversity amongst the Indigenous
representation that theresearch is being done about or
with and for and by.
The other thing that reallyneeds to occur is the research
needs to be led by Indigenouswomen, because we do have
language that we are allfamiliar with, if you grew up in
community, right?
So we do have a lot ofunfortunate Indigenous people
(16:07):
here in Australia that have beenreally disconnected from their
country and from theircommunities.
Um so, we but we do have similarand same language when we talk
about things.
Sonya (16:16):
I think it's about showing the diversity and
understanding that there isdifferences and I think, from my
very, very uneducated view ofor understanding of the
indigenous cultures withinAustralia, the Aboriginal
cultures in particular, is justthe amount of languages that
there are.
That's just an example of howdifferent language needs to be
(16:37):
and the experiences and theperceptions.
Prof Best (16:40):
We don't seem to like .
No other continent on theplanet seems to do this.
We don't see that all Europeansare the same right.
You know what I mean.
We don't say all Africans arethe same right.
You know what I mean.
We don't say all africans arethe same, or all native
americans it's one of thosereally big things that we have
to break down here in australiathe diversity here, and you know
a lot of us indigenous peoplewill always argue and say, oh,
we were multicultural way beforenon-indigenous people even came
(17:02):
to the continent.
Sonya (17:04):
Yeah, and that's a very fair and valid point.
Yeah, it's interesting, isn'tit?
Because that's something thatAustralia likes to hang its hat
on, isn't it?
How multicultural our societyis.
Prof Best (17:14):
Yeah, but we've always been multicultural.
Sonya (17:15):
How close are we getting to having those Indigenous
researchers that can actuallyget funding for these projects
and actually get all this workunderway?
Prof Best (17:25):
Absolutely.
Therein lies the issue, right,sonia?
I put in for a grant with adear colleague of mine,
professor Tracey Bunda she'sover at University of Queensland
and we put some funding like in2022, I think it was, and it
was an Indigenous health fundinground and it was government.
We wrote what we thought was afabulous application and it was.
(17:50):
But we got knocked back andwhat they said to us was like a
really well-written application,you've really identified a gap
within the gap, but it sitsoutside of these funding
parameters, so it didn't getfunded.
No surprise there.
And then back in I want to say2024, when the Senate inquiry
was happening, I sat down atquarter past three in the
(18:11):
morning, as you do in your manicstate when you can't sleep and
you can't drink any more cups ofchamomile tea, otherwise you'll
just burst.
That's when I wrote my ownpersonal account into the
inquiry going.
I'm only purely writing asmyself.
I don't represent IndigenousAustralia, but this is a single
worldview of an Indigenous womanand I just you know, let it rip
(18:33):
had at it just bang, bang, bang.
And I actually said in mywritten submission about that
the funding knockback that I'dgotten in 2022.
And so I did get contacted andthey said oh look, we think you
are the only Aboriginal woman inAustralia who did a written
submission into it.
I was like well, we think youare the only Aboriginal woman in
Australia who did a writtensubmission into it.
I was like well, how do you?
(18:53):
know that Will you come in andtalk to the senators.
And I was like Jesus really.
So I rang up Tracey, as I do,and go, trace, we're off to see
the senators.
And she's like what are wedoing?
She's like we're off to see thesenators and so we went in to
speak to the five senators andin that session we were the only
ones there, so it was probablyabout 40 minutes, I want to say,
and I was just talking to Jasonand I.
So we talked about the fundingand the knockback.
(19:15):
We talked about the need forbetter funding services around
our Aboriginalcommunity-controlled health
organisations and sector.
We talked about the need forresource development.
But also we talked about theround that had literally just
happened and opened up aboutthree weeks prior to that around
the MRFF round on menopause andperimenopause.
(19:37):
Now the bottom line is wehaven't heard anything, whether
we've gotten that or not, and wesubmitted that six months ago.
So you know, the kind of likefeeling is we probably haven't
got it, but it it kind of likefueled us, I suppose, to
actually got it, but it kind oflike fuelled us, I suppose, to
actually get a really goodfunding MRFF in.
And so we did.
So we've collected 32 mostlyIndigenous women from 13
(20:00):
universities across Australia toactually undertake a mixed
methods research into theexperiences for Indigenous women
traversing menopause andperimenopause, and also
Aboriginal trans men as well, ifthey've still got their ovaries
.
So for us it's been difficult.
We have had a knockback.
What I did say to the Senatorsat that time was because they
(20:21):
did say oh look, how do youthink we can best support you?
And it's like, well, the MRFF,for that particular strand or
stream that we put in forthey're only going to award one.
So it's really tricky when youhave one bucket of funding and
you've got women competingagainst women for the same
(20:44):
essence of research that isneeding to be done, and I don't
understand that.
You know what I mean.
So I said to the senators whatwe need you to do is to actually
really talk to MRFF and fundingbodies and government around
better representation in theirfunding models to have better
representation of women beingresearched.
So that's what we said andthat's where we are at.
Sonya (21:07):
Still to this day Haven't heard the findings that were
handed down from the senateinquiry, how did you, how did
you feel they reflected, or didthey reflect any of the feedback
that you were given theopportunity to provide?
Prof Best (21:20):
yeah, they actually did so.
They've quoted myself and tracybunder in the indigenous
section in there and where wespecifically talk about funding
for our Aboriginal medicalservices sector and things like
Closing the Gap for those of uswho choose to engage with
hormone replacement therapies orMHTs it gets all called as well
(21:43):
and resource development.
So all of that got reportedactually in the findings
document.
I was pleasantly surprised.
For us it was kind of like yay,the very first inquiry at least
had Indigenous women's voicesin there going.
This is what we as Indigenouswomen need to be able to
(22:03):
successfully traverse thisreally, really at times hectic
period of a woman's life, and itis.
Sonya (22:10):
It's a small step forward , isn't it?
But, as you've alreadyexplained, lots and lots of
progress and work to be done toreally really make a difference.
Odette, before we wrap up, whatmessage would you share with
any Indigenous women that'slistening today and is either
about to start navigating or ishaving trouble navigating the
(22:32):
health system today?
Prof Best (22:34):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
First thing I'd probably do isgo oh you poor bugger, and do
you need a cup of tea?
Yep, tonya, the knowing.
Look the knowing, nod, yeah,the kind of like you, poor
bugger, what's going on for you?
Because that's what usually ourmenopause conversations start
with.
Right, for us women who've gotthose bits in our body that you
(22:54):
know, make us traverse this,it's like, because not all of us
women have the same symptoms.
Right, it's talking, it'sshowing compassion and it's
yarning and just being open tolearning at all stages and from
anywhere you can.
So, for example, when I was downat the it's so hot right now
with the lovely Kerry Sessionaland M Harvey oh my God, what
(23:18):
dynamic, amazing women doctorswe have and an Aboriginal doctor
that we also have up here inQueensland, Dr Anne-Marie
Nielsen, mine.
So we're really lucky, we'vegot this amazing woman.
But you know, you sit in thegreen room and you're anxious
and you're nervous and it's like, oh my God.
And I'll be honest with you,that was the first time I'd ever
(23:38):
actually been to the OperaHouse and, of course, I had my
support troop with me.
So I had Tracey Bundle, theamazing Tracy Bundle, with me
and Annie Nielsen, the GP I justtold you about, and they had
them sit in the front row so Icould always clock them and see
that they were there.
But when I was in the green roomand talking and I was talking
to one of the women, michelle,and she told me about the hip
(24:01):
pain that she had and I was justlike you need to talk to me
about that, because I've hadreally full-on hip pain for
about the last 18 months and I'mthinking to myself what the
hell is going on with me.
And she said, oh, it's reallycommon amongst some women to
have this really bad hip pain asthey're going through this
(24:23):
journey.
So it's kind of like alwaysbeing open to receive new
information about what it is.
And I've been talking andplaying in the space now for
kind of like you know, not quitea decade my own journey doing
some publications, and I havegot some publications that will
be coming out very soon thattalk about what is happening for
(24:44):
Indigenous women.
But just get help wherever youcan and know you're not going
mad.
And if a doctor wants to putyou on antidepressants or other
medications that you don't feelcomfortable with, seek
information to find out more,because it's one of the common
things that they and we talkedabout this at the so Hot Right
Now gig that a really commonthing is for women to be
(25:05):
diagnosed and givenantidepressant medication
instead of doing a deeper dig toactually find out.
Hang on, what is more broadlygoing on for you and your body
yeah, I think it's easier toprescribe.
I think that seems to be it'slazy prescribing yeah yeah, it's
lazy medicine and because we dosuch in medical programs and I
(25:27):
only found this out by talkingwith so many gps they just get
these very small, minimal amountof information in their
training about our perimenopauseand menopausal women's lives.
So it's like we don't teach ourgps, our doctors nor our nurses
about this in any of any of ourmedical professional training.
So it's another area thatreally needs to be looked after.
Sonya (25:51):
And it really extends into the whole allied health
services as well.
When you talk about your hippain, often for many, many women
the first people that they willgo and see about something like
that is a physiotherapist or achiropractor.
You know they're also noteducated on these things.
I have a whole bunch of friendsthat are physiotherapists and
I'm always saying to them ifthey're presenting, if they're
(26:13):
this age and they're presentingwith plantar fasciitis, frozen
shoulder, you know inflammation,strange, weird hip pain, you
know you can't prescribe forthem but you can have a
conversation about.
Well, have you considered thatyou're at this stage in your
life that maybe it's time to goand have a conversation with
your GP?
Prof Best (26:30):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And one of those things thathas to occur with the GP is we
need better diagnostic tools,because they're a tool that
often gets used Nothing on thereabout culture or Indigenous
people or like, there's justnothing.
So we need better developmentof tools for assessing
(26:53):
Indigenous women, who, of course, can go to our GPs and they'll
say oh yeah, that sounds likeperimenopause to me or menopause
to me.
So, yeah, we need to helpsupport our medical
professionals better to be ableto support us better.
Sonya (27:06):
And we need to put a call out for some funding to be sent
your way.
Thank you, oh, sonia, thatwould be great.
Prof Best (27:12):
Thanks, if you can get onto that, we'd love it.
I will Look.
I'll put that onto my schedulefor later today.
Sonya (27:25):
It's just so infuriating that there's a dirge of research
that exists in, you know,across the whole spectrum of
helping women through thismidlife stage.
Absolutely absolutely.
And at the end of the day, sooften, it's just coming down to
the fact that nobody is fundingthe research, absolutely.
Prof Best (27:44):
That's absolutely right, and also to understand
that you know there isdifference for women and the
journey.
You know what I mean and it'sabout respecting that and
understanding that, and that'swhy Indigenous women need to
lead this research.
Sonya (28:00):
Yeah, to me it makes perfect sense, and if I had a
few million dollars in my bankaccount, you'd be top of my list
for spending it.
That's heaps, sonia, amazing.
Thank you so much foreverything that you are doing,
for having these conversations,for putting in the applications
for the MRFFs, the fingers, toesand knees crossed.
That you know no news is goodnews.
(28:22):
I know that in my circle offriends we're all waiting on the
outcome of that.
Thank you, thank you, sonia.
Prof Best (28:36):
Yeah, because we're in that beautiful mrf space too.
You know it gets to work with.
You know, non-indigenous womenwho are on our page and are
really good supporters andadvocates and allies for us,
like the m harvey's of the worldand you know kerry sessionals
and erin um down in southaustralia.
Those non-indigenous women it'snot to say we're excluding.
Sonya (28:52):
You know what I mean, because we know who our allies
and supporters are Sonia, yep,yep, there are plenty of us, and
we will do everything we can toshine a light on where these
gaps exist and provide thesolutions, and then we just need
them to come to the party.
Please, that would be great.
Thank you so much for your time.
It was great to chat mypleasure.
Prof Best (29:11):
Thanks heaps.
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonia Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
(00:24):
Welcome to this week's episodeof Dare Menopause.
Today, I am super excited to bejoined by a guest that I've
wanted to chat to for quite awhile.
It impacted me more afterseeing you on stage at the
Sydney Opera House at the so HotRight Now event earlier this
year.
I'm speaking to ProfessorOdette Best.
Prof Best (00:43):
Welcome, odette, thank you, sonia, lovely to be
here.
Sonya (00:47):
It's awesome to have you here.
To make it a little bit easier,why don't you introduce
yourself and tell everybody alittle bit about who you are?
Okay, thank you.
Prof Best (00:56):
Well, my name is Odette Best.
First and foremost, I'd like toacknowledge the land where I am
today being recorded on, whichis the land of the Yugara and
the Yugarram people and in alittle town or city called
Ipswich.
Myself I'm an Indigenous woman.
I have two bloodlines through aset of grandparents which is
(01:18):
Goren Goren and Bontemora, andthat's through my grandmother,
who is still alive she's a veryold woman now we think about 106
, and that's through mygrandmother, who is still alive
she's a very old woman now wethink about 106, and that's my
Goren Goren bloodline.
And my Bontemora bloodline isthrough my grandfather, which
was her husband for a very longtime.
So that's a channel country wayout west in Queensland, a quite
(01:39):
stark and very beautifulcountry.
And by adoption I am also aKumbumburra Yugambeh woman.
So I didn't grow up with myblood family and I was adopted
by a mixed marriage couple backin the late 60s that they called
them, and my adopted dad, whois my dad, he's my dad, I love
my dad.
He's Kumbumburra Yugambeh, sothat's around Southport Gold
(02:00):
Coast and across the StradbrokeIsland, and it's his last name
that I absolutely proudly carrystill to this day.
I am a registered nurse andI've been a registered nurse for
a really really long timeprobably about 34, 35 years now
and I commenced my training atthe Princess Alexandra Hospital
in Brisbane back in the late 80s.
So I've worked for a very, verylong time as a nurse, in
(02:23):
different capacities andsettings, and I currently sit in
a role at the University ofSouthern Queensland as their
Pro-Guys Chancellor for FirstNations Strategies.
Sonya (02:33):
Amazing and thank you so much for that background into
your Indigenous family history.
I find that so fascinating.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
What I'm keen to hear from youabout first off, is what
inspired your focus intoIndigenous women's health and
midwifery.
Obviously you've got thatfamily connection, but from a
career perspective, whatinspired you to move into that
(02:54):
space?
Prof Best (02:56):
Yeah, good question.
When I got through my hospitaltraining at PA, I was very, very
clear that I wasn't going towork in a hospital.
I didn't like hospitals.
I was very, very clear that Iwasn't going to work in a
hospital.
I didn't like hospitals.
They smelt bad and it was just.
It was full of contested spacesfor me which were really hard to
navigate, and we didn't dealwith intersectionality very well
back then at all.
It wasn't even a term that hadbeen, you know, a phrase that
(03:18):
had been coined by KimberlyCrenshaw at that stage, and so I
always knew that I was destinedto work in Aboriginal health
and I just had to make thathappen.
And so for me I did go and workclinically at the Brisbane
Aboriginal and IslanderCommunity Health Service, as it
was called back then, and Iworked there for approximately a
decade and for me I wasparticularly interested in youth
(03:41):
health, but young women'shealth, more to the point, and
so I would eventually take onthe role working at Brisbane
Aboriginal Medical Service as aclinical coordinator of young,
at-risk Indigenous women andtheir sexual health.
So for me that was kind of likewhere it was just like oh, this
is really exciting, this isreally excellent.
(04:01):
I feel like I can have animpact.
I feel like I can lean intothis space.
I did attempt to do my midwiferybecause I had quite a bit of
pressure on me from differentpeople around.
Well, you need to be a midwife,you need to be a midwife.
We need more black midwives, weneed more Aboriginal midwives,
and I must admit it wasn'tsomething that I particularly
(04:23):
and naturally leant towards.
However, I did attempt to do mymidwifery down at the Martyr
Hospital in Brisbane and Ilasted seven weeks.
Yeah, when I'm going, yeah,this is so, not for me.
And so I rang back Uncle MickAdams, who was the chair of the
board at that time at theBrisbane Aboriginal Medical
Service, and was like crying andsobbing going Uncle Mick, have
(04:45):
you given my job away yet?
And he was like no, when do youwant to start back?
It was like I want to start onmy own.
I attempted my midwifery.
I never went back, so I neverworked in the space of midwifery
.
It was more sexual health foryoung, at-risk, indigenous women
.
Sonya (05:01):
Okay, and so I'm assuming this must have been 80s, 80s,
90s.
No that was 90s early 90s.
Prof Best (05:08):
Early 90s yep.
Sonya (05:10):
And what change have you seen in that time when it comes
to the health of Indigenouscommunities, and particularly
those young women that you wereso invested in helping from a
sexual health perspective aswell?
Prof Best (05:23):
There has been change , and in different respects over
different things.
So whilst I was also working atBrisbane Aboriginal Medical
Service, I would go and do someclinics and then I would end up
working there part-time andusually on weekends, at Bogger
Road Women's Prison, and I wasthe sexual health nurse in there
as well.
And one of the really big,fundamental changes that I did
(05:44):
see around helping Indigenouswomen full stop was sitting on
the founding board of anorganisation called Sisters
Inside, and that was very muchabout supporting Indigenous
women inside and as they journeyoutside of their prisons.
The other thing, I think andthat organisation still goes
(06:04):
today and it's based in Brisbaneand it has expanded out but the
level of support that it gavewomen was something we had never
seen in this country before.
So I'm really proud of that.
Having been attached to SistersInside, we now have more
Indigenous nurses we don't haveenough, clearly.
So that's also been a change.
(06:27):
And I think what has changed aswell is we see, have seen some
amazing indigenous researcherscoming through and doing really
amazing work in the space ofindigenous women, and when I
talk about that, I talk about,uh, people like lisa wop at um
australian national university.
Now she's a Taurus womanepidemiologist researcher and
she looks at cervical cancer inIndigenous women.
(06:49):
We have some better fundingwithin our Aboriginal medical
services around sexual healthand that's things like pap smear
clinics and specificallyfocusing on women's sexual
health.
So we certainly have got moreof that.
But of course there's reallybig gaps that are still there to
this day and hopefully we canstart to redress them,
(07:12):
especially around the area ofthe journey or traversing
perimenopause and menopause forIndigenous women.
There's just a dearth ofinformation out there for us.
Clinical services out there forus, resources out there for us,
they services out there for us,resources out there for us they
are nearly non-existent.
Sonya (07:27):
Wow, that's really sad.
As a very privileged whitewoman, I live in a city, I have
all the privilege literally itbreaks my heart when I hear that
there is such a gap that exists.
And I don't think it's just thecare, it's in the
acknowledgement of the fact thatthe experience for Indigenous
communities through midlife,that transition period, is just
(07:47):
so different to what is talkedabout, is researched.
And what do we whether it's weas a country, we as a nation, we
as a global community, have todo better to support our
Indigenous communities.
Look.
Prof Best (08:03):
Sonia, that's such a loaded question.
How long do we have, seriously?
Oh look, I think at the momentit's a very long road back for
the Indigenous community,clearly after the result of the
referendum in 23.
So that was a lost opportunityfor this nation to have a voice
to Parliament and to be able totalk at levels about things like
(08:27):
perimenopause and menopause,just saying so yeah, we've got a
long road back from that andthe acknowledgement of
Indigenous history andIndigenous occupation of this
continent is a very long way off.
The latest federal election thatwe had and I wasn't in the
country, I was actually in NewMexico, so I was being ping,
(08:49):
ping, pinged for hours and hoursfrom friends and I brought up
Anthony Green as you do, youknow your iPad to watch it.
Go down and watching a reallyugly campaign and a very
divisive campaign againstIndigenous people was just
terrible.
So we've got an incredibly longway to go in acknowledging the
(09:11):
history of this country,acknowledging our rightful place
in this country and,unfortunately, now having to
start to kind of like visualiseand conceptualise how we
actually are going to be able toraise really important health
issues and other issues forIndigenous people to government,
where we are seen and we areheard, because that opportunity
(09:32):
was, you know, really lost forthe no vote.
So, yeah, we've got a long wayto go, sonia.
Sonya (09:38):
I don't know how we get there and it's a real shame to
say that.
You know it's 2025 and that'sthe situation that we're in and
you know I hope that we do seesome progression towards change,
but yeah, it's, uh, it's hard.
So let's go back to offpolitics for a little bit, back
into some health topics whichmight be a little less loaded to
talk about.
(09:58):
The health is political though,but anyway well.
So is menopause somethingthat's talked about openly in
Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander communities?
Prof Best (10:11):
Yes, and no.
So, of course, as a menopausalwoman, of course I rely on my
girlfriends and my community andthe women within my world and
realm to talk about, and my ownperimenopause and menopause
journey has not been pleasant,has not been good, has not been
fun, and so, of course, you know, there are always those times
(10:33):
and those moments and thoseelements where it's just like,
oh my God, what are you doingfor the lack of sleep?
And, jesus, what's your GPtelling you?
Or I found this really goodresource.
I think maybe this will help us.
So, of course, on an individuallevel, yes, I talk to my
community around.
You know, not only support, butabout perimenopause and
menopause and what they evenmean, and I will be really
(10:55):
incredibly honest when I say Ionly started talking about this,
as I think a lot of women dowhen it actually starts
happening to us I think it's afairly common experience for a
lot of us women is, we havethese niggly symptoms, but we
don't have the language toactually go oh that's
perimenopause or oh that'smenopause.
(11:17):
And that certainly happened forme for a number of years before
I finally was in a privilegedenough position to be able to
afford to go to a private dinerand go, can you talk to me about
what's happening with my body?
Because I don't know and Idon't have language.
But it was actually one of mydearest friends who's now passed
(11:38):
.
He's not with us any longer andhe grew up in a household of
five sisters and he was the baby, spoiled baby.
I was down in Melbourne for theweekend and I was with him and
his partner, rodney, and Istarted doing the profuse
sweating that we all do at somestage.
And one of them looked at meand was just like what's going
(11:58):
on with the sweating?
And Jeffy, my best friend, mybestie, said to me it's clear
what's going on, this ismenopause stuff.
And I just looked at him likewhat, like what, like what.
I've got my best mate, who's aboy, who's telling me that I'm
going through.
It was like what, um?
And we were using the wordmenopause.
We didn't even have thatlanguage of perimenopause back
then, so even my languageprobably wasn't right, but it
(12:22):
was a word that I could anchorit to, to go, oh right, oh yeah,
that's when it started for meand I went to a gyne and said,
like what's going on for me?
And then the wholeperimenopause language came into
being and this is what'shappening with your body.
So that triggered me to go onmy own journey of self-discovery
and I'm still discovering a lotof stuff around it.
(12:45):
So, yeah, it's not as widelytalked about in the community as
it could and should be, andthat's what we've got to change.
But yeah, of course we talkabout it, you know, amongst our
friends in our community, going,oh my God, this is so full on.
Sonya (13:02):
Well, it's interesting and I'm pleased that that's the
case, because I have readdifferent narratives where, when
it's brought up that we ignorethis huge sector of our
community, when we do talk aboutmenopause here in Australia and
that is in our digits I've readnarratives where it's like,
well, it's different, becauseculturally it's not something
that they talk about, and I'mlike really, how do they know
(13:23):
that?
Prof Best (13:24):
I'm not saying it's not the case, but the reality is
, when you make motherhoodstatements like that and that's
what I call a motherhoodstatement, there's no research
that's been done.
Sonia, the last lot of researchthat we did or was done in
Australia was, I want to say,about 12 years ago, 13 years ago
, and it came out of WesternAustralia and it was done by a
group of non-Indigenous womenand there I think, I want to say
(13:46):
, 10 women that they interviewed.
So that's it.
That's the only body ofresearch that has been done in
the country around themenopausal or perimenopausal
experiences of Indigenous women.
So when we have thesemotherhood statements of, oh,
they don't want to talk about it.
My question back to that iswell, how do you know that?
Good question, how do you knowthat?
(14:08):
Yeah, totally, because we don'tget asked, we don't get spoken
to.
So, yeah, there's some othergood statements that go on
around Indigenous health thatjust have to stop around
menopause and perimenopause.
Sonya (14:19):
So then, what does need to change from a research
perspective?
That's different for theIndigenous communities, the
Aboriginal, the Torres Straitcommunities, what research that
we know needs to happen.
It's different for theIndigenous communities, the
Aboriginal, the Torres Straitcommunities, what you know,
research that we know needs tohappen at a general level.
Prof Best (14:38):
But what research do we need?
More specific?
We need more specific researcharound Indigenous women, because
not all women are the sameright and there are cultural
contexts to all women and that's, you know, around our
ethnicities and around ouridentities.
So we do need to have researchdone with Indigenous women, for
Indigenous women, but reallyimportantly by Indigenous women,
because the assumption in thata lot of Indigenous research
(15:02):
that occurs is that if we lookat some of the stuff that
Indigenous people say, there'sprobably a myth out there that
it's absolutely inherentlycorrect.
For all you know, prior toinvasion and colonisation we had
250 countries, nations,indigenous nations in Australia.
So the assumption is thatwhat's good for one group of
Indigenous people will be theright thing for all Indigenous
people and that's just actuallynot the case.
(15:23):
So there's a lot of diversityamongst Indigenous voices that
has to be represented withinresearch that it's not just one
group of Indigenous women andAboriginal trans men that we
need to be talking to.
It's lots and lots ofIndigenous women from right
across the country, from urbanto metro to regional to remote,
to very remote to the TorresStrait Islands.
(15:45):
So there has to be thediversity amongst the Indigenous
representation that theresearch is being done about or
with and for and by.
The other thing that reallyneeds to occur is the research
needs to be led by Indigenouswomen, because we do have
language that we are allfamiliar with, if you grew up in
community, right?
So we do have a lot ofunfortunate Indigenous people
(16:07):
here in Australia that have beenreally disconnected from their
country and from theircommunities.
Um so, we but we do have similarand same language when we talk
about things.
Sonya (16:16):
I think it's about showing the diversity and
understanding that there isdifferences and I think, from my
very, very uneducated view ofor understanding of the
indigenous cultures withinAustralia, the Aboriginal
cultures in particular, is justthe amount of languages that
there are.
That's just an example of howdifferent language needs to be
(16:37):
and the experiences and theperceptions.
Prof Best (16:40):
We don't seem to like .
No other continent on theplanet seems to do this.
We don't see that all Europeansare the same right.
You know what I mean.
We don't say all Africans arethe same right.
You know what I mean.
We don't say all africans arethe same, or all native
americans it's one of thosereally big things that we have
to break down here in australiathe diversity here, and you know
a lot of us indigenous peoplewill always argue and say, oh,
we were multicultural way beforenon-indigenous people even came
(17:02):
to the continent.
Sonya (17:04):
Yeah, and that's a very fair and valid point.
Yeah, it's interesting, isn'tit?
Because that's something thatAustralia likes to hang its hat
on, isn't it?
How multicultural our societyis.
Prof Best (17:14):
Yeah, but we've always been multicultural.
Sonya (17:15):
How close are we getting to having those Indigenous
researchers that can actuallyget funding for these projects
and actually get all this workunderway?
Prof Best (17:25):
Absolutely.
Therein lies the issue, right,sonia?
I put in for a grant with adear colleague of mine,
professor Tracey Bunda she'sover at University of Queensland
and we put some funding like in2022, I think it was, and it
was an Indigenous health fundinground and it was government.
We wrote what we thought was afabulous application and it was.
(17:50):
But we got knocked back andwhat they said to us was like a
really well-written application,you've really identified a gap
within the gap, but it sitsoutside of these funding
parameters, so it didn't getfunded.
No surprise there.
And then back in I want to say2024, when the Senate inquiry
was happening, I sat down atquarter past three in the
(18:11):
morning, as you do in your manicstate when you can't sleep and
you can't drink any more cups ofchamomile tea, otherwise you'll
just burst.
That's when I wrote my ownpersonal account into the
inquiry going.
I'm only purely writing asmyself.
I don't represent IndigenousAustralia, but this is a single
worldview of an Indigenous womanand I just you know, let it rip
(18:33):
had at it just bang, bang, bang.
And I actually said in mywritten submission about that
the funding knockback that I'dgotten in 2022.
And so I did get contacted andthey said oh look, we think you
are the only Aboriginal woman inAustralia who did a written
submission into it.
I was like well, we think youare the only Aboriginal woman in
Australia who did a writtensubmission into it.
I was like well, how do you?
(18:53):
know that Will you come in andtalk to the senators.
And I was like Jesus really.
So I rang up Tracey, as I do,and go, trace, we're off to see
the senators.
And she's like what are wedoing?
She's like we're off to see thesenators and so we went in to
speak to the five senators andin that session we were the only
ones there, so it was probablyabout 40 minutes, I want to say,
and I was just talking to Jasonand I.
So we talked about the fundingand the knockback.
(19:15):
We talked about the need forbetter funding services around
our Aboriginalcommunity-controlled health
organisations and sector.
We talked about the need forresource development.
But also we talked about theround that had literally just
happened and opened up aboutthree weeks prior to that around
the MRFF round on menopause andperimenopause.
(19:37):
Now the bottom line is wehaven't heard anything, whether
we've gotten that or not, and wesubmitted that six months ago.
So you know, the kind of likefeeling is we probably haven't
got it, but it it kind of likefueled us, I suppose, to
actually got it, but it kind oflike fuelled us, I suppose, to
actually get a really goodfunding MRFF in.
And so we did.
So we've collected 32 mostlyIndigenous women from 13
(20:00):
universities across Australia toactually undertake a mixed
methods research into theexperiences for Indigenous women
traversing menopause andperimenopause, and also
Aboriginal trans men as well, ifthey've still got their ovaries
.
So for us it's been difficult.
We have had a knockback.
What I did say to the Senatorsat that time was because they
(20:21):
did say oh look, how do youthink we can best support you?
And it's like, well, the MRFF,for that particular strand or
stream that we put in forthey're only going to award one.
So it's really tricky when youhave one bucket of funding and
you've got women competingagainst women for the same
(20:44):
essence of research that isneeding to be done, and I don't
understand that.
You know what I mean.
So I said to the senators whatwe need you to do is to actually
really talk to MRFF and fundingbodies and government around
better representation in theirfunding models to have better
representation of women beingresearched.
So that's what we said andthat's where we are at.
Sonya (21:07):
Still to this day Haven't heard the findings that were
handed down from the senateinquiry, how did you, how did
you feel they reflected, or didthey reflect any of the feedback
that you were given theopportunity to provide?
Prof Best (21:20):
yeah, they actually did so.
They've quoted myself and tracybunder in the indigenous
section in there and where wespecifically talk about funding
for our Aboriginal medicalservices sector and things like
Closing the Gap for those of uswho choose to engage with
hormone replacement therapies orMHTs it gets all called as well
(21:43):
and resource development.
So all of that got reportedactually in the findings
document.
I was pleasantly surprised.
For us it was kind of like yay,the very first inquiry at least
had Indigenous women's voicesin there going.
This is what we as Indigenouswomen need to be able to
(22:03):
successfully traverse thisreally, really at times hectic
period of a woman's life, and itis.
Sonya (22:10):
It's a small step forward , isn't it?
But, as you've alreadyexplained, lots and lots of
progress and work to be done toreally really make a difference.
Odette, before we wrap up, whatmessage would you share with
any Indigenous women that'slistening today and is either
about to start navigating or ishaving trouble navigating the
(22:32):
health system today?
Prof Best (22:34):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
First thing I'd probably do isgo oh you poor bugger, and do
you need a cup of tea?
Yep, tonya, the knowing.
Look the knowing, nod, yeah,the kind of like you, poor
bugger, what's going on for you?
Because that's what usually ourmenopause conversations start
with.
Right, for us women who've gotthose bits in our body that you
(22:54):
know, make us traverse this,it's like, because not all of us
women have the same symptoms.
Right, it's talking, it'sshowing compassion and it's
yarning and just being open tolearning at all stages and from
anywhere you can.
So, for example, when I was downat the it's so hot right now
with the lovely Kerry Sessionaland M Harvey oh my God, what
(23:18):
dynamic, amazing women doctorswe have and an Aboriginal doctor
that we also have up here inQueensland, Dr Anne-Marie
Nielsen, mine.
So we're really lucky, we'vegot this amazing woman.
But you know, you sit in thegreen room and you're anxious
and you're nervous and it's like, oh my God.
And I'll be honest with you,that was the first time I'd ever
(23:38):
actually been to the OperaHouse and, of course, I had my
support troop with me.
So I had Tracey Bundle, theamazing Tracy Bundle, with me
and Annie Nielsen, the GP I justtold you about, and they had
them sit in the front row so Icould always clock them and see
that they were there.
But when I was in the green roomand talking and I was talking
to one of the women, michelle,and she told me about the hip
(24:01):
pain that she had and I was justlike you need to talk to me
about that, because I've hadreally full-on hip pain for
about the last 18 months and I'mthinking to myself what the
hell is going on with me.
And she said, oh, it's reallycommon amongst some women to
have this really bad hip pain asthey're going through this
(24:23):
journey.
So it's kind of like alwaysbeing open to receive new
information about what it is.
And I've been talking andplaying in the space now for
kind of like you know, not quitea decade my own journey doing
some publications, and I havegot some publications that will
be coming out very soon thattalk about what is happening for
(24:44):
Indigenous women.
But just get help wherever youcan and know you're not going
mad.
And if a doctor wants to putyou on antidepressants or other
medications that you don't feelcomfortable with, seek
information to find out more,because it's one of the common
things that they and we talkedabout this at the so Hot Right
Now gig that a really commonthing is for women to be
(25:05):
diagnosed and givenantidepressant medication
instead of doing a deeper dig toactually find out.
Hang on, what is more broadlygoing on for you and your body
yeah, I think it's easier toprescribe.
I think that seems to be it'slazy prescribing yeah yeah, it's
lazy medicine and because we dosuch in medical programs and I
(25:27):
only found this out by talkingwith so many gps they just get
these very small, minimal amountof information in their
training about our perimenopauseand menopausal women's lives.
So it's like we don't teach ourgps, our doctors nor our nurses
about this in any of any of ourmedical professional training.
So it's another area thatreally needs to be looked after.
Sonya (25:51):
And it really extends into the whole allied health
services as well.
When you talk about your hippain, often for many, many women
the first people that they willgo and see about something like
that is a physiotherapist or achiropractor.
You know they're also noteducated on these things.
I have a whole bunch of friendsthat are physiotherapists and
I'm always saying to them ifthey're presenting, if they're
(26:13):
this age and they're presentingwith plantar fasciitis, frozen
shoulder, you know inflammation,strange, weird hip pain, you
know you can't prescribe forthem but you can have a
conversation about.
Well, have you considered thatyou're at this stage in your
life that maybe it's time to goand have a conversation with
your GP?
Prof Best (26:30):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And one of those things thathas to occur with the GP is we
need better diagnostic tools,because they're a tool that
often gets used Nothing on thereabout culture or Indigenous
people or like, there's justnothing.
So we need better developmentof tools for assessing
(26:53):
Indigenous women, who, of course, can go to our GPs and they'll
say oh yeah, that sounds likeperimenopause to me or menopause
to me.
So, yeah, we need to helpsupport our medical
professionals better to be ableto support us better.
Sonya (27:06):
And we need to put a call out for some funding to be sent
your way.
Thank you, oh, sonia, thatwould be great.
Prof Best (27:12):
Thanks, if you can get onto that, we'd love it.
I will Look.
I'll put that onto my schedulefor later today.
Sonya (27:25):
It's just so infuriating that there's a dirge of research
that exists in, you know,across the whole spectrum of
helping women through thismidlife stage.
Absolutely absolutely.
And at the end of the day, sooften, it's just coming down to
the fact that nobody is fundingthe research, absolutely.
Prof Best (27:44):
That's absolutely right, and also to understand
that you know there isdifference for women and the
journey.
You know what I mean and it'sabout respecting that and
understanding that, and that'swhy Indigenous women need to
lead this research.
Sonya (28:00):
Yeah, to me it makes perfect sense, and if I had a
few million dollars in my bankaccount, you'd be top of my list
for spending it.
That's heaps, sonia, amazing.
Thank you so much foreverything that you are doing,
for having these conversations,for putting in the applications
for the MRFFs, the fingers, toesand knees crossed.
That you know no news is goodnews.
(28:22):
I know that in my circle offriends we're all waiting on the
outcome of that.
Thank you, thank you, sonia.
Prof Best (28:36):
Yeah, because we're in that beautiful mrf space too.
You know it gets to work with.
You know, non-indigenous womenwho are on our page and are
really good supporters andadvocates and allies for us,
like the m harvey's of the worldand you know kerry sessionals
and erin um down in southaustralia.
Those non-indigenous women it'snot to say we're excluding.
Sonya (28:52):
You know what I mean, because we know who our allies
and supporters are Sonia, yep,yep, there are plenty of us, and
we will do everything we can toshine a light on where these
gaps exist and provide thesolutions, and then we just need
them to come to the party.
Please, that would be great.
Thank you so much for your time.
It was great to chat mypleasure.
Prof Best (29:11):
Thanks heaps.
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