Season 2, Episode 11: Dead Talks with David Ferrugio

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This whole life is sad. This whole life
is happy. This whole life is a range
of emotions
that we're meant to experience. We're meant to
experience these emotions, and I wanna evoke that
in in any way I can with, you
know, an angle of positivity, if that makes
sense.

(00:21):
Welcome to the Death Happens podcast, an insider's
guide to dying. We're your insiders. I'm hospice
nurse Penny. And I'm Hallie, hospice social worker.
Today, we're talking with David Ferruggio.
He's a realtor in California, but more importantly
to us, he is the host of the
Dead Talks podcast.
Yes.
Yes. I love his podcast. I've been on

(00:43):
it a couple of times.
He, does dead talks on the street now
and goes to talk to people. Actually, well,
we don't wanna give away the whole show
because he's gonna tell us all about his
podcast.
So let's talk about
how culture is shifting, at least it seems
like it is, a little bit, towards a
little bit more death positivity.

(01:04):
You know, when I started on social media,
I was the first hospice nurse that was
educating and talking about death and dying,
that I knew of anyways,
that had any kind of following or gained
any kind of following. And now
there are other nurses, there are social workers
like you, Hallie, there are chaplains,

(01:25):
hospice aids,
hospice care, palliative doctors,
there are
hospice patients, hospice patients, family members. Like, we
are seeing
so many more social media creators
who are
really promoting death positivity, and it is
it is a sight to behold.

(01:47):
And this season, we are getting to talk
to two folks
that are actually spreading that death positivity and
normalizing
death. We talked to Cody earlier in the
season, and he's talking to folks that are
at the end of their life and sharing
their journey. And now David is not only
talking to folks that are maybe in that
end of life sphere, but expanding

(02:08):
on all different kinds of realms of death
and dying and just normalizing it. Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, as we say, you know, death
happens to all of us, and it's not
gonna happen faster just because we talk about
it, but it can be a much better
experience
if we do talk about it because being
able to plan what we want,

(02:29):
you know, it I mean, obviously, somebody could
just die instantly and not have an opportunity
to fulfill their bucket list.
But the more that we are aware of
our own mortality,
the better we live. You know, we Yes.
We have an ability to really understand that
this is we have a finite amount of
time left. We don't know how much time

(02:50):
that is, but
we do have
an expiration date. And so
we should be
living, like we say at the end of
every show. You know? I was gonna say,
we really haven't talked about where that came
from, but that's exactly
why we say remember to live. Because the
point of this podcast, the point of all

(03:10):
of these podcasts and people that we're talking
to
is to normalize so that it's not a
fearful thing, that you're not having anxiety about
it, that you do have the opportunity to
make informed decisions as much as possible
so that you can have just what you're
talking about, that better end of life experience,
especially when it's not sudden.
Well and not only the better end of

(03:31):
life experience, the better life experience because when
you have anxiety and and fear
around death and dying and it and you
perseverate
on that,
you know, it does it hampers your your
life and your living when you're so because
I had death anxiety, you know, when I
was younger and and it it was traumatizing

(03:52):
to me to think about death and dying
and and it it
made me sad and anxious and I was
not able to enjoy
the moment that I was actually alive in
because I was so,
you know, wrapped up in thinking about death.
So, yeah, it's definitely something that improves
your death experience and it improves your life

(04:13):
experience.
I imagine it probably improves your relationship experience
too because that anxiety ripples out and makes
decisions for you that you might not otherwise
make.
Well, I am divorced from my husband that
I had at that time, but mostly because
when I told him that I was afraid
there was nothing after we died, he would
say, well, then it won't matter because you'll

(04:33):
be dead.
So his lack of compassion
led me to divorce him. There were other
things too, but I always say that's why
he's not my husband anymore.
Mhmm. He was not very,
empathetic towards me and my death anxiety.
So Exactly the reason we need to normalize
death so you can pick out those red

(04:53):
flags.
Right. Hashtag normalizing.
That's right. Alright. Let's get into it. Let's
do it.
David, welcome to death happens podcast. How are
you doing this morning? Doing lovely. I'm just
about getting jacked up on my coffee, so
it's perfect timing.
Isn't it kinda late for coffee?

(05:14):
You're on the West Coast like us. It's,
like, afternoon here.
Yeah. You know, I'm trying I'm trying a
new thing about having my coffee just a
little later, and this one was a little
bit on a whim, so we see how
it feels a little later when I try
to go to sleep.
I wish something was going on. Tell listeners
a little bit about yourself. Who are you?
Who are we talking to?

(05:35):
Who's David? It's a question I ask myself
every day, but, yeah. My name is my
name is Dave Ferruggio,
David Ferruggio for my mom, and, I am
a host of TED Talks podcast. That's how
I, you know, got in touch with Penny.
She's obviously been on several times.
And, you know, the conversation of death has
become and has been a big part of
my life. And, you know, I lost my

(05:56):
dad when I was a kid, 12 years
old, which which I have a feeling we're
gonna get into, so I'll save some of
the details.
And, you know, it took me on this
path of conversating about death with people as,
you know, you guys are doing right now.
And, essentially, I just believe in normalizing the
conversation and exploring it from all facets, whether
it aligns with my beliefs or not. I
just think it's a conversation
that is important and to bring light to

(06:16):
it, laugh about it in certain situations, of
course, and just, you know, explore the
the most common thing that we all share,
which is so interesting to me that, you
know, people often, you know, neglect the conversation
a little bit. I can't speak for everyone,
obviously,
but I just think it's the one thing
in a world that seems so divisive, yet
it's the one equalizer that kind of brings
us all together in a strange way.

(06:38):
Yeah. Thank you. And O'Malley and I were
just talking a little while ago about how
it really feels like and maybe it's because
I'm so ingrained in social media now. It's
like my life
that the the culture around us is really
starting to move into more depth positivity
since, when I started on social media four
years ago.

(06:59):
You know, there wasn't that much of it,
that I found that was out there, and
now it's just everywhere, including
your awesome podcast, which I love.
Well, I appreciate it. It's funny you say
that. It could obviously do the work that
you girls are doing and that, you know,
obviously, people that are in the field, as
weird as that sounds, or in the death
field. I mean, not for you. You're literally
in it professionally, so it's like that's it's

(07:20):
weird for me. But, I was having a
a drink yesterday with a friend, and, ironically,
we were talking about her going through some
experience in regards to losing someone in her
life.
And then I kinda mentioned that indirectly. I
was like, I feel like we're in a
I don't know if it was COVID, which
I think is a big part of it.
People had to face mortality
in many different ways, maybe as a collective
for the first time in their lives like

(07:42):
that. And I think there's just a shift
right now. I think there's a consciousness shift
going on, whatever that means, whatever your beliefs
are, just in general, there's I think it
makes sense as to why this we're asking
these more existential questions and maybe facing these
conversations and
selfishly enough, it's it's good for the podcast
right now.
Yeah. %
COVID. A % COVID. Yeah. In fact, I

(08:04):
do keynote speeches and my,
that is part of my presentation is, like,
nobody wanted to talk about death and then
COVID happened. And now all of a sudden,
you know, people had questions because it was
on the news every day. People were dying
by the thousands
all over the world, and we couldn't avoid
it anymore. And so I really do think
that kinda catapulted us a little bit into,

(08:25):
this death kind of death awareness and on
in death positivity.
Yeah. I think it takes those it takes
those experiences to kinda catapult those conversations and
questions in yourself, which we're gonna get into
obviously about
my experience with loss, and I'm sure you
both have, you know, experienced yourself. Sometimes it
takes those things to happen in order to
ask these questions and really look deeper beyond

(08:46):
the surface.
Well, it definitely transitions well into my question
about your podcast starting because as I went
back and looked at the dates, it looks
like your first podcast came out just before
we were really hitting COVID
and the shutdowns.
How was that
leading up to how maybe you had been
recording quite a while before, but how was

(09:07):
that transitioning to
just starting before COVID and then, bam, we're
in the middle of this pandemic?
Yeah. I mean, perhaps this might might be
the answer that you're looking for, but it
was more a logistical thing for me in
regards to starting the podcast at a time.
Obviously, it just happened to happen that way.
But, I mean,
that logistically messed it up in a what?
Not messed it up. That's the wrong word.

(09:28):
I just had to readjust because I was
scheduling people in person. Obviously, that wasn't a
thing. I started recording episodes ahead of time
to get ahead of the curve and have
prerecorded episodes so I'd be ahead, and then
that mixed it up. But the timing the
timing was just, yeah, very it was a
very bizarre time as we already tapped into,
you know, having that conversation amongst that. It
was an interesting time for me to contemplate,

(09:48):
wow. I kinda started this podcast at a
couldn't tell if it was a good time.
I guess it was because everyone's sitting around
doing nothing for the most part, and then
all this, you know, these
massive events and, unfortunately, losing a lot of
people is happening. So it it was an
interesting timing for myself to question the podcast.
Well and COVID, like you both have talked

(10:09):
about, really opened up that global conversation
about death in a pandemic.
And your experience, your personal experience, David,
having to do with your father and 09:11,
you can talk as much or as little
as you want about that. I know you're
very open about it on your pod.
I was thinking about it. For those of
us that have been alive, and it's recently

(10:30):
come to my attention that I'm old enough
that there are folks that weren't born when
that happened.
Weird.
Yeah. It is weird. Adult.
But when you know, those of us that
were alive long enough to have consciously remembered
that, we all have us our own story
of what were we doing or what were
we remembering when that happened. And I wonder

(10:51):
how that's been for you mourning your own
loss separate
from the world or The United States grieving
a an event. Do you know what I
mean?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's the public grief
that comes with an event like that, and
then there's the individual grief. And I've had
that conversation from other people's experiences.
Obviously, nine eleven is nine eleven. Everyone and

(11:11):
their mother knows that date, and so it's
it becomes very public for the rest of
my life. Every anniversary, I get those text
messages,
which is a big reason for why I
started this conversation personally is because I kinda
felt not guilty, but I always felt like,
I'm getting these text messages every year because
everyone knows when my dad died, but then
there's so many other people that lost somewhat,
know someone that died, and don't get those
text messages because it was 04/17/2003.

(11:33):
Like, it was just not a public meeting.
So I wanted to, you know, spread the
light on other people's stories. But for our
family, you know, I had a a family
episode of my mom and my sisters at
Ground 0, which is special,
and we kinda talked about that. That. That
was amazing.
Yeah. Yeah. And it was a it was
a cool moment when my mom and sister
shed light. I was like, yeah. We never
forgot the other people. You know what I
mean? It was it was a blend of

(11:53):
it was a blend of both, which was
a good it wasn't good or bad. It
was just the experience, and I I have
a my my mindset has really shifted due
to these conversations I've had that I've started
to realize recently. I mean, these conversations truly
have opened my mind and I've seen things
differently, which is, you know, for me like,
I've done the podcast
not just for me, but for others, but
I'm starting to realize the effect it's had

(12:15):
on me, and it's just these conversations have
changed changed my perspective on the way I
live my life for the better. But back
to sorry. I wanna go on tangents. Just
the coffee. But in regards to the public
grief, you know, it's it's a very it's
a it's a very it's a personal grief.
I lost my dad. I lost my dad
died in the tower, so it was individual,
but it's public. It's in the news. So
there is that balance center. Everyone

(12:35):
is with us in it. So it's a
it's a it was beautiful support. As crazy
as it was, as crazy as that day
was, we did see the country and, you
know, a lot of part of the world
and people come together. That was the silver
lining between it. We saw that, so we
had that support. That was a beautiful part
of it, but a lot of it still
was
a lot I don't remember. That's another part
of the conversation we'll have to talk about,
but it was you know, everyone came together.

(12:55):
So the benefit of the public the publicity
of it is that there was a tremendous
support system.
The country rallied behind each other, and that
was a beautiful aspect of a nightmarish day.
So the support that came with it was
wonderful, but then at some point, it was
like you know, it was kind of a
lot. It was kind of a lot, because
sometimes you want that quiet, and sometimes you
don't want that. And part of me I
love the text message I get every day

(13:16):
every year. It's wonderful, and this isn't me
saying don't text me, but part of me
is like, one day it would be nice
to not get any text messages, to not
see the anniversary, not because it hurts me
or anything. Like, I'm totally every year. It's
like I it's a remembering. It's,
it's not sad not necessarily sad for me.
You know, I reflect heavily, but it's you
know, that that's the, the yin and the
yang that comes with the public aspect that

(13:37):
comes with grief.
It's not like you're gonna forget that data
if they don't send it to you in
a text message.
Yeah. No. So now your dad was
it was why don't you tell us a
little bit about your dad and and, whatever
you wanna share about 09:11. He he was
a first responder, yeah? No. No. He was
in the he was in the First Tower
on the Hundred And Fifth Floor. So he

(13:57):
worked for Cantor Fitzgerald, which was I believe
Cantor Fitzgerald lost the most people because they
were, you know, I I forget how many
floors they had if they were just on
the 100 And Fifth Floor, but they had
the most people that passed away from my
understanding. Fact check that. Mhmm. But, yeah. So
he was he was in the first tower
that got hit and the second one that
went down, and that, I mean,

(14:17):
it's funny and it's not funny. Maybe it's
funny. I don't know. I'm a sicko. But
I remember going to the World Trade Center,
my dad would take me. I started to
remember,
being and it kind of comes together. I
remember seeing my dad at the office, like,
Father Sunday, whatever. So I've been on the
Hundred And Fifth Floor of the World Trade
Center, and they used to have those, floor
to ceiling windows.
And I remember, like, stepping up on the
little step where the vents were or whatever

(14:37):
it was, and I'll put my forehead on
top of the like, on the glass and,
like, look down and, like, kind of be
balancing. And it was so wild
doing that because
at the time, it was just so high
up. You're a hundred and five floors, so
it's terrifying but exciting at the same time.
And then I always flash back to that
memory because I try to put myself I
try to put myself where my dad was
and all those people. And I I go
down that rabbit hole, and I remember that

(14:58):
day looking down, being there, and thinking that
was they were screwed. You know, the the
plane hit underneath them. And I mean, there's
I'm gonna actually talk to a gentleman that
was one of the guys that survived
nine eleven and apparently was above the plane,
which is just another counter counterintuitive thought to
what I'm thinking when they're saying Ben shot.
There were, like, 25 people that did get
out of the building when they were above

(15:18):
the plane. I'm gonna talk to that guy.
But it just
I I go down this path of putting
myself there because
that day when I found out going to
class, my one buddy, Jeff, was late.
He said, hey, Dave. Doesn't your dad I
say he's late because he was first here
was like 09:00. It happened at like 08:46
or whatever. He's like, Dave, doesn't your dad
work at the World Trade Center? I'm like,

(15:38):
Yes. And he says, There's a plane flew
into the building. I'm like, What do you
what what what does that mean? What do
you mean a plane flew into the building?
And I tried I tried going to the
office. That made no sense. I know I
didn't know what that meant. Obviously, he told
me very clear, but, like, you mean a
plane? Like, what's tone on? They didn't let
me make any calls, and my mom made
the decision to leave me in school throughout
the day. And so I didn't so the
weird part about that was the whole day,

(15:59):
it all was done. Like, by the time
I left school and started walking home, I
look back at it now, I'm like, oh,
the building already collapsed. My dad was already
gone. This is all done. And I still
didn't know what was going on. And I
remember walking around the corner with my best
friend. He was with me in the first
week of school because he got suspended from
the school bus because he was a little
asshole as a kid. And we, we, I
remember approaching the house and I see all

(16:19):
the cars outside.
And that's when I knew, I was like,
okay, like,
it's two, 03:00 on a weekday. Like, obviously,
something's really bad happened, even though I got
a little bit of a hint.
Walk into the house, separated me and James,
and I remember my walk into the living
room, I someone was trying to keep me
away from the TV. And again, I'm I'm
going back and forth with the linear stories

(16:40):
because it just I it kinda, like, it
I feel like I'm living in different times.
I'm just thinking, wow, this is all done
already. I was wondering, but it already happened.
And then finally, when I got home and
they were keeping keeping me away from the
TV, I remember seeing the TV for the
first time, and I saw the footage for
the first time, and it was just constant
replays. It already went down. I saw the
explosion, and then right there, it's like it's
like the end of the movie. It was

(17:00):
like everything just went black. And I remember
things after that, but it was as if
my brain just decided, okay,
system system override. You gotta like, this is
too much for you at 12 years old.
We're just gonna kinda block you out, and
then you're gonna figure that shit out later,
which is what I've learned, which just seemed
like a defense mechanism.
But
it's I think when our body protects ourself
with that, which I've come to understand, at

(17:20):
least for me, yes, protecting you at that
moment but it doesn't mean you're gonna have
to, it's not gonna protect you for the
rest of your life. If anything, it's gonna
screw you up later down the road if
you don't work it out. And that was
part of my grieving process which was later
down the road becoming a man and asking
these questions and figuring it out.
Regrieving.
Regrieving.
Regrieving. Regrieving.
Yeah. Wow.

(17:41):
I'm I'm just thinking as you're telling the
story and and thinking about the text messages
every year and the replaying of the anniversaries,
When when someone dies on just a Tuesday,
as you say,
and it's not a world event,
they're allowed to go through a grief no
matter how they died. Right? Every death is
unique, whether it's sudden or prolonged like someone

(18:03):
on hospice,
And they're allowed to grieve, and then it
gets less. Like,
that grief never really goes away.
But I I wow. I just it's such
a different way to grieve to have it
have to relive it, not on your terms
like you're doing, which is on your of
your own volition.
But if someone wasn't wanting to talk about

(18:24):
it and be open about it and having
that wound reopened every year,
That's just
yeah. Yeah. Like, and that can be traumatizing,
I would think.
Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's I guess,
I mean, if you look at it that
way, I I I personally don't look at
it like that. I mean, like, reopen because
I part of me is like I mean,
this is
it's like it's just it's an anniversary. I

(18:45):
know people put a lot of weight in
anniversary, especially the first, and I understand that.
It is it's it does it does reopen
in in many ways.
But at the same time, like, sometimes I
look at them, like, it's not
sometimes the woods never been closed, so it's
like always been open, but it's just we
kinda like gotta live and grieve. You know,
there's a couple words that I heard from
a girl behind the podcast that really stuck
with me. We have to live and grieve.
And I think a lot of people

(19:06):
but and again, it's when I when I
say things or whenever I hear people say
things, people sometimes sometimes too many words
can can be too much. Like, when I'm
being there for someone, I just I try
to say less, but also I also don't
put a lot of weight on people's words.
Like, I I I take it with it
if it's, like, good and this and that,
but
I just don't wanna come off the wrong
way in regards to, like, the process of
grieving. Like, you gotta do what you gotta

(19:28):
do. Like, whatever you feel, let it ride
and give yourself grace. You feel guilty, this,
that, that, that, that's that's fine. It's not
for everyone.
But, like, when it's
I'm I'm trying to, like, place it the
right way. It's to me, anniversaries are, you
know, it's sad, but at the same time,
I don't know. I just expected it. Like,
I I it was just the the day
already happened, so anniversary is just another day
to me. I know that maybe sounds insensitive

(19:49):
and this or that, but, like, it doesn't
it doesn't really open the wound. It never
really reopened the wound for me because my
dad was always on my heart. It was
always an everyday thing. I wasn't like, Oh,
I'm going to feel this again in a
year. I was like, No, it's every day.
Every day I'm feeling it. Every day I'm
contemplating. Every day I'm trying to get better
and feeling like shit, this or that. So,
the anniversary to me is just another day
that
that I've already been thinking about. So you
know what I mean? So the anniversary has

(20:10):
never really it just became a day of
reflection. This took twenty four years to get
there. So I'm not speaking to someone who's
grooving right now. I'm not speaking to someone
who's maybe a couple years in, whatever.
But to me, where I'm at, is this
another day to smoke a cigar, honor him,
but at the same time, I feel like
in many ways, I try to honor him
and think about him every day. So to
me, it's not really reopening a wound.
What was interesting to me when my dad

(20:32):
died was the differences
in how I
grieved
his death from my sister, my brother, my
dad,
I mean my mom, not my dad because
he was dead,
but how we all grieved. I mean, we
we spent a lot of time together
when he first died, but then we kind
of had our own

(20:53):
grief experiences that were similar,
but
but, you know, different. So, like,
did you do you find that's the same
as far as, you know, how your mom
grieves it and how you're, like you know
what I mean? Mhmm. How do they feel
about the anniversary celebrations and the text messages

(21:14):
and the you know, is it different for
them than it is for you, do you
think? And why? Yeah. I mean, I I
can't I can't I I can't speak on
the the depth of what they're feeling outside
of what we've discussed and yada yada yada.
But, yeah, I mean, there's a reason why
it's clicarious. Everyone grieves differently, and and the
biggest example is within households. You guys were
raised in similar households. But there's so many
variables. There's so many variables in the grief

(21:36):
process in general, let alone the individual vow
variables, and those variables can be, you know,
the the type of relationships you have with
the person you lost compared sibling to sibling,
the the timing. What was what was going
on at that specific part of your life?
Where were you? And what was said there's
so many variables that affect it. And, you
know, there's a lot of weight that happens

(21:56):
around this specific timing. And, like, you know,
a lot of people think get feel guilty
or happy or whatever it may be depending
on how you last left off with that
person. And I think that is even a
a variable, which I get, but at the
same time, like, I think we need to
learn to
extrapolate beyond that and think about the entire
life, not just the last yeah. Maybe if
you left on being angry at each other,
that hurts and that hits, but at the

(22:17):
same time, it's like, well, what was the
whole life before that? Because that was the
bulk of it. And we get kind of
tied up in those moments,
but I've been back to
those variables and affects the family. It's completely
different. Me and my sisters were
similar in many ways, but also very different.
Like, my we've spoken about it on the
podcast. My sister Jacqueline, the oldest, wears a
heart on her sleeve. You're gonna you meet
Jacqueline, you see Jacqueline, you know what she

(22:37):
feels, you know how she's doing. She's like
she's one one there's one Jacqueline in this
world despite the name.
And there's me. It was there's me in
the middle that was kinda in between both
of them. I was inward, inner, and didn't
really express much. And then I think Gina
was even was me and Gina were more
close to our experience in regards to being
more inward and keeping it in and really
intellectualizing it and perhaps not expressing it in

(22:59):
ways that would have been more helpful.
And again, it came back to relationships and
timing and just personal function. Like, Jacqueline's always
been like that. I think me and Gina
have always been like that, so our expression
was different. But nevertheless, I was always
lucky to have we were so close with
each other. Even if we didn't express differently,
even if we handled it differently,
for whatever reason, we were able

(23:21):
to we didn't go at each other's heads,
and that happens all out of the time
because I think if just like in general,
personal views in general outside of grief, people
kinda get rubbed off the long way if
someone doesn't exactly align with your thoughts. And
I think it goes back to being like,
we're individual. It's okay to believe what you
want as long as the intention's there. And
I we understood that even though my sister's
seeing it one way,

(23:42):
other sister's doing it this, my mom's doing
it that way, there was never and being
upset at each other because you saw it
that way, and I did it this way.
So it's like there's some mutual respect that
we're all kinda going through it in our
different ways. And because she's experiencing it that
way, shouldn't get upset at me, like, because
she didn't show up or I didn't say
this or I didn't do that.
It's just a an understanding that we're all
doing it from a different lens lens even

(24:03):
if it's within the same household, which is
still wild if you if you really break
it down.
But I don't wanna say really healthy that
you all have that respect because there are
so many families who have discord over, you
know, so and so isn't even crying after
dad died, blah blah blah, you know. I
felt like we had the same thing in
my family too where we just respected that

(24:23):
everybody
grieved differently. And and and another variable I
think too is how you feel about
that, if there's an afterlife or not or,
you know, how you feel about that. You
know, my brother's an atheist,
died in the wool,
and it's like, you know, he has a
completely different perspective of what happens when a
person dies, and so that would affect his

(24:44):
his grieving for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. A %. I guess, like you
said, it's a massive factor. And then, obviously,
based on my podcast, when I do post
near death experiences and have these spiritual discussions,
and again, I I like to explore every
side of it regardless if I believe it
or not, it's just sharing stories and everyone
else, you figure out what you believe. But
I've seen
such a divisiveness in that conversation and, you

(25:05):
know, there's plenty of people that are very
amicable and and I feel like explain their
position and and talk to other people in
different positions with love, but there's so much
shit talking. It's like, oh my god. Like,
people are just I see the comment section,
and people are just talking so much. You
you're wrong. You that's stupid. How do you
believe that? I looked at it, and I'm
like, oh my god. Like, I'm
but I shouldn't have said, oh my god,
but I did. In that in that reality,

(25:26):
it's like people are just so at each
other's throats. And, again, it goes
back to that that's why I I agree.
It's it's such a big factor because I
think my theory is we have these beliefs,
we're so passionate about these beliefs, and I
think it stems from being fearful of not
knowing. And I think, you know, a lot
of the fear on earth when it's fears
in general, usually future events for the most
part, unless you're, like, generally in that situation

(25:47):
now. It's a future event of this might
happen, AKA we don't know what's gonna happen.
So we want we need we need to
understand we need to know what's gonna happen
in order to feel safe. And I've learned
to, like, try to feel safe in not
knowing. But when it comes to religion in
the afterlife, it's like they latch on
and they, who the generally they, I'm part
of that they,
we can latch onto a belief that has

(26:07):
something so personal to us that once someone
believes something different, it's like an attack on
their beliefs. And then they're it it just
even though it's not an attack, it's just
someone else's beliefs, but once we accept the
fact that at at the end of the
day, it doesn't to me, I had this
thought before, it doesn't necessarily matter what we
believe. It does,
but
it's whether it's real or not, it's like,
does it make you feel good? Because the

(26:28):
way I see things now is I realize
some of my beliefs on what I think
happens in the afterlife. If there's an afterlife,
I believe there's something that happens. And I'm
also like, maybe I'm I could be very
wrong, but this is what resonates. This is
I'm listening to myself. This is what feels
good based on what I've heard. And then
I'm keep going further than that. Like, okay,
based on my beliefs, I said it last
night, I'm like, I feel like I've become
more compassionate. I feel like I've I've seen

(26:50):
people in a different light. I have a
different understanding in the life, and to me,
it's for the better. So at the end
of the day, as long as if it's
doing that,
like, let that's isn't that a good thing?
So it's like, we're just looking at, like,
the evidence based need to know this, that.
It's like, that's why they call it a
belief. It's a belief. Right. Because you believe
something to be true. It's not saying it's
a fact. And if some people believe it's

(27:11):
a fact, then, okay, maybe it's possible they
know more than I do. But even if
they don't, it's like
just latch onto your own beliefs. And if
it's for the right reason, that should be
enough. But it's hard to get people on
that same wavelength.
Right. And to your point, it does not
fucking matter because it is or it isn't
and we have no control over over that
and we'll either know someday or we won't
if there's any isn't anything, but it does

(27:33):
matter how it shapes who you are, why
you're alive.
Agreed. Agreed. That's that's how I feel. That's
how I feel at least.
And great transition because I wanna ask you
from all the variety of guests that you've
had,
how do you determine
who you're going to talk to?
Oh, sorry. I just got like I feel
like I'm I'm like a midlife crisis. I'm
gonna be like a hot flash. The coffee

(27:54):
between the light the light above me, I
just got, like, really hot. Yeah. It's
our question. It's our question.
Yes. Yeah. You put me on the hot
seat. There's ex there's coffee I got. So
how you're you're sorry. You're quite I got
distracted from the heat there. You said you
might
how do I get guests, or how how
do I pick my guests? Is that what
you said? How do you choose who what
who your guests are gonna be? Because you've
had this wide range of people that you've

(28:16):
talked to. I recently listened to,
the one with the sisters, the oracles.
And so just just this broad range of
opinions, beliefs, whatnot, how do you go about
choosing who you're gonna talk to?
I mean, when I first started the it's
grown. It's changed. When I first started the
podcast, you know, I wasn't a it wasn't
a podcast. It was an idea. So I

(28:36):
started with, you know, my sphere of influence
people, and then it just eventually started growing
to continue
to reach who I knew. And then they
knew someone, and then I, you know, I'm
still in technically in real estate as my
day job, and so I get TED Talks
even the next level where I can truly
just 100% full time even though I am
doing it full time, just the money isn't
showing me that. And,
it's become a

(28:57):
constant reach out, and I bring up the
real estate thing because I I do a
lot of prospecting. I've knocked on doors. I've
sent emails, made cold calls. So I'm just
taking that same approach and reaching out to
people that I find interesting. I find every
story interesting, just to clarify. I think every
if I could, I would let everyone just
have a podcast. I have a million episodes
a year.
But at this point, you know, at this
point,

(29:19):
I could pick anyone and it'll probably be
a good story, of course, and there's some
stories that are captivating and will catch the
YouTube algorithm, yada yada yada. But at this
point, I've kinda let go of of course,
I
want to make the audience happy and I
want to show things that they'll like, but
in order to do that, it's not picking
and choosing people that I think my audience
will like. It's really
me wanting to talk to people that I

(29:40):
just, at this moment, I want to talk
to. And if I do it that way,
it's going to make me authentically interested, which
will hopefully make me engage in conversation. So
again, it's my selfish choice of this or
that. I'll listen to other people that make
suggestions, and I've reached out to them. And
again, it's not always I've had very big
names on the show, and those aren't always
the episodes that perform the best numerically.

(30:01):
It's it's just the story. Like, I've had
people with no followings perform great because it's
the story. So it's really I just wanna
focus on stories and things that are interesting.
And so I have reached out to people,
and people have reached out to me. And,
you know, I try to accommodate as much
as I can. But ultimately, it's like, who
do I who do I just wanna talk
to? And granted, there are more people I
wanna talk to than I've had on, but
just the name of the the game. I

(30:22):
can't have everyone on.
And, and I'm trying to stick to my
truth and just who do I want to
talk to? What do I find interesting? And
what I find interesting is exploring
as many avenues as possible. Whether you believe
in it or not, I just want to
have these explorations.
Like the three psychic sisters, the Trinity Oracles,
like you said, they were actually very persistent
in reaching out to me.
And I said, screw it, let's go for

(30:43):
it. And again, these conversations that I have,
I wasn't even sure when I spoke to
them, you know, I was like, I looked
into them, of course, wasn't just like to
say yes. Like, this is interesting, but I
wanna have fun with the conversation whether it's
you believe in it or not. Again, let's
just ask them the questions, have fun with
it. It's like a little bit of entertainment
and then dive into deeper, ask them hard
questions, show us how it's, if it's real
or not. And I'm putting information out, like

(31:03):
some people get mad, like How you how
you giving x x y z a platform?
Like, we're not I'm not selling I'm not
selling back the v word. I'm just on
big pharma over here. I'm just having a
conversation, like, believe it or like, have fun
with it, believe it or not. And if
you don't believe it, you don't have to
get angry, don't listen to the episode.
You just click off. Click off. It's not
for you. You don't get angry. I'm giving
them a platform for other people because it's

(31:24):
maybe it's helped other people. And then if
you don't believe it,
engage. Tell me why in a in a
way that hopefully you can like, that's why
I think today, I'm going off another side
road is, like, we wanna shut down people's
conversations, but that's not the way to do
it. The way to do it is, yeah,
there's gonna be BS that's gonna be out
there. I'm not talking about these these sisters,
just in general. There's BS that's out there.
And the way to do it is to

(31:45):
engage with it. It's not to shut it
down. It's it's to have someone who has
AKA maybe the right the the truthful or,
like, the more information and talk. And then
you guys make decisions like humans should make
decisions instead of stifling someone. So I wanna
explore all these topics whether I agree agree
with it or not. And, Ken, it comes
back to what do I find interesting? What's
fun? What's what do I think is gonna
help me or help other people? And I'll

(32:06):
talk to you.
Okay. So aside from me and Julie, the
episode we were on together with you, who
was your your favorite guest? What's your favorite
episode? You see, I wasn't gonna put you
on the spot like that, but Penny.
Yeah. I mean, I I know. I guess
I asked this question. I mean, I know
I know that me and Julie had to
be here. Right. Right. So so, yeah, it's

(32:26):
a right it's a it's a ready answer.
So now we're given second place trophies, so
it's okay. Exactly. You know, I it's it's,
it's hard to say because I will answer
it. I'm not gonna cop out, but there's
different levels to it. Like, for I'm gonna
give you a multiple answer, unfortunately.
My personal favorite is, you know, my mom,
my sisters. Like, that was just very personal.
Yeah. I have those that episode was just
my favorite in that sense. But also but

(32:48):
a recent one that I had that was
so much fun, I had Billy Carson on
the on the podcast, and, you know, he
does a lot of ancient civilizations and ancient
history. A lot of people will put the
conspiratorial flag on him, and it we explored
ancient civilizations,
ancient history as it relates to tapping into
the afterlife and what the ancient Egyptians believed
and some
other lives that may have come from outer

(33:09):
space. It was very it was just again,
I I went into that conversation. He's a
very brilliant man regardless. I can't keep up
with him even going into it. I was
like, I'm gonna do my best to listen
and understand what you're saying. There's gonna be
so much information that let's just rock and
roll. So it was, like, going in there,
like, let's just have fun. I asked these
questions whether I even know if it what's
what's what, but the Billy Carson episode was
awesome because we just went down a whole
rabbit hole on some physics, and I can't

(33:30):
even regurgitate right now. Ancient civilizations,
the Anunnaki, which is like ancient beings that
have been recorded history, the Sumerian tablets, all
these things that just gave me a new
perspective on, a, I gotta look into this
more to see what's up. But, b, also,
it just put us in a past that
realized that all these things, like maybe, even
like the Bible, for example, everyone says, like,

(33:50):
that's the book and maybe it is. Sure.
It seems like a pretty heavy consensus, but
there's information from the Bible that seemed to
have come from information in the past. So
it was like, therefore, the Bible wasn't necessarily
completely original. Don't get mad at me, whoever's
listening to this, and then, you know, you're
the right next to you listening. I'm just
saying this is what I was told. And
it was just a fun exploratory conversation because
I think the history aspect of death is
very fascinating.

(34:11):
Well, I wasn't gonna ask for favorites. I
do wanna know if there's a bucket list
guest that you haven't been able to get
on yet.
Oh, big question.
Yeah. My one answer's been the same since
before I started the podcast.
Pete Davidson is my golden child because just
Oh, yeah. Of course. Just because the the
nine eleven the nine eleven combination, that was
always Yeah. I've that was my first one

(34:33):
when I first started I just thought it'd
be interesting to have someone who's been so
public about nineeleven
talk to someone else who is now kind
of public about speaking to nineeleven. We were
similar ages, and I just thought that would
be a fascinating discussion even though he's talked
about it a million times. It's like now
it's just two nine eleven boys talking about
it. And that was my first thought again
from the beginning of,
you know, getting the show out there. Obviously,

(34:53):
you want someone with a name and it
helps that, but also I think it'd be
a different dynamic for someone like that. And
to me, like, having the big names, quote
unquote, is a part of it, and it's
not just to get big names, but it's
to me, having a big name, a public
a public name who has reach,
showing that person's okay talking about death is
only gonna help the whole modality behind why
I'm doing this. So he's a golden child,

(35:15):
but at the same in regards to, like,
from the beginning. But to me, it's like
I love talking to comedians,
just regardless if they've had experiences or not.
So a lot a lot on top of
my list are comedians
because it just they bring so much light
to the conversation. So there are a lot
of comedians on my list that I like
to talk to, but just to give you
a short answer,
you know, that guy's been on my list.

(35:36):
Is Tige Navarro one of your is Tige
Navarro on your list?
You know, I saw Tig, I think she
was at the NWell of that last year.
She was at the NWell last year. Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I actually just, I marked
her down
recently, literally the other day because I think
I was just doing some prospecting thinking about
who I wanted to try to get on
the show
And her name definitely showed up, so I
plan on reaching out to her if she's

(35:57):
not listening to this right now.
Well, I don't wanna burst your bubble, but
probably isn't. Look. If Tigger Tomorrow finds this
podcast, we wanna talk to her too. So
get on Yeah. On the list. Yeah. There
you go. So now we're gonna I'll keep
you posted when I reach out. We'll see
if she responds.
So I I don't wanna out my ignorance,

(36:17):
but I'm going to because I don't know
who that, Pete,
Davidson. Is that what you're saying? He was
the thirty seventh president.
What? He was on Saturday Night Live. He
dated Kim Kardashian and Ariana Grande. He's been
in some movies. He's a New Yorker. Staten
Island. Right? Oh. Yeah. That's that's why we
have we have the ease we have there's

(36:37):
a lot of connections there. That's the reason
reason reason I wanted
to do it, and I've heard him talk
about it so much. I'm like, I just
wanna get in a room again with someone
who's like, he was, like, eight or nine.
I was 12. We're both from Staten Island,
both lost their dad. His dad was a
fireman, so there's a little bit of a
different perspective there. And, you know, I thought
it'd be interesting, so I'm I'm working on
it.
I love that you have,
you know, a a goal of having,

(36:59):
comedians on because,
you know, I'm I love the dark humor,
and I just really feel like
it does,
you know, reach a lot
more
people when we can
just be lighter and more comical
about this
heavy, hard, sad subject

(37:19):
of death and dying.
You know, I just really love the
the,
idea of bringing just more light to it
with laughter. You do you do you do
it wonderfully. I mean, you're I that's that's
why I think we you know, when we've
had our episodes, it's been easy to chop
it up because you do we both share
that that,
the humor aspect of it. Because, again, I
don't
I don't wanna take all this too seriously,

(37:40):
and I know there's moments to take it
seriously out of respect to others more than
myself, to be honest, because I will laugh
at literally I will make a joke out
of anything. And some people and, like, someone
called me out yesterday. I was like, we're
just getting to know each other, and she
was like, you know, I think you use
your humor to deflect. I'm like,
I mean, yes. But also, I just it's
I like it. Like, maybe this is me

(38:00):
deflecting it. Maybe I'm deflecting the deflection. I
don't know what's happening here. But at the
same time, like, I'm I'm pretty deep into
my life right now for the most part
of of going through some stuff, and I
feel pretty confident. And maybe it was for
a while. Maybe, yeah, maybe it is, but
I'm I'm not deflecting it. If anything, I'm
opening a door to show that I'm okay
talking about it. I'm not deflecting it and
changing the subject. I'm deflecting it to I

(38:20):
didn't deflect it. I'm using the word deflect
if you got me. I'm just I bring
humor I bring humor to the conversation because
it also
I think it sheds light and open in
the door that I'm okay talking about it.
Like, I usually make a 09:11 joke, man.
It come out of my mouth when someone
brings it up, and they're shocked at first,
but then they're like, oh, he's making a
joke. And then they start asking me questions.
But if I was like, yeah, my, you
know, my dad died 09:11.

(38:41):
That happened when I was 12. People would
be like, shut down. Like, oh, I'm so
sorry and leave it there. But when I
make a joke, we can loosen it up.
It's like and then they start to start
finding the questions and we start having our
conversations. So it's
partially deflection, partially strategy. Partially, I think this
life is one sad traumatic humorous clip. And
I think it's okay to laugh at things
because I think there is humor. There's a
reason why dark comedy is my favorite. It's

(39:02):
humor is supposed to be coming from a
place that is not normally supposed to be
laughed at, I think, in my opinion, and
we laugh at it. And what is better
than laughter? All I wanna do is just
laugh, laugh, laugh. I'm not gonna force it,
but I hope my podcast and these conversations
bring a little bit of that light. And
it's I also wanna show a range of
emotion. Like, I've had very serious episodes
that are, you know, speaking with a dying

(39:22):
man. And he was even he was dying.
He died two weeks later. He was bringing
humor to the conversation. You know, heavy coat
of it was sad, but it's like this
whole life is sad. This whole life is
happy. This whole life is a range of
emotions
that we're meant to experience. We're meant to
experience these emotions and I wanna evoke that
in in any way I can with, you
know, an angle of positivity if that makes
sense.

(39:44):
I love laughter. I mean, laughter just makes
me feel happy and making people laugh and
making myself laugh
makes me happy. And
to me, probably one of the best
the best experiences
as far as humor goes is when you
have a dying patient
who is
cracking jokes and making you laugh. I mean,

(40:05):
that to me is, like, the best. It
is the absolute best.
Can you agree more? Because that's how I
will be. You know? Like, when I'm in
my death bed, I will be anytime I'm
in, like, going in for surgery or having
any kind of,
something that people would usually take very seriously,
I'm always gonna be one to crack jokes,
you know, because it just makes me feel

(40:25):
happy to to laugh and to make others
laugh.
A %. And you do it in the
right you do it in a certain way.
Sometimes it's bad jokes, but for the most
part, I think people have a sense of
humor. Some people don't respond well, then I
then I know. Then I accept my boundary.
I'm like, alright. Not saying that around that
person again, but also probably not gonna drink
a beer with you at the same time,
but it's okay.
And he knows my story about my patient

(40:46):
that,
said that they were going to they wanted
to die in their recliner so that their
family could say they died in the electric
chair.
I love that. See, that's what it's about.
That's and it it brings lightness.
Well, you know, when you're saying that about
if it's not received well, then you know
you got a duck pill. Right? But I
was going in for a colonoscopy

(41:08):
and all there was all men in the
room like the nurse was a man, a
tech was a man, the doctor was a
man, and then a woman came in and
I don't remember if she was a nurse
or a tech or whatever and said oh
thank god there's some estrogen in the room
and it wasn't met very
like, she didn't even laugh. Nobody laughed. And
the next thing you know, like, I'm under
the anesthesia. So

(41:28):
I woke up from that thinking, well, fuck.
I think that just bombed.
That's hilarious. I mean, I don't know. I
think, sometimes you gotta I forced the jokes
one time just to just to swing the
mood, and I think, again, humor to me
is, like, it's, again, it's cliche for a
reason. It is my favorite medicine, so I'm
gonna stick with it.

(41:50):
Yeah. So
you kind of alluded to this a little
bit that that maybe, doing these interviews have
kind of maybe changed you a little bit.
How how has this,
you know, experience with this podcast and these,
you know, in whatever way, do you how
do you feel like it has changed you?
Yeah. I mean, it's just I've I've been

(42:11):
very open minded for however I long I
can remember, but I just
this these conversations forced me
to hear new perspectives, and I'm a big
believer in
listening to new perspectives again regardless of my
beliefs because and then be open to
kinda grabbing the olive of what I believe
in. Like, oh, that makes sense. That makes
sense. I could shift I'm open to shifting
my paradigm, and I'm not gonna force it.

(42:32):
Like, I have my my beliefs, my foundation.
But if I listen with an open mind
and not a a mind of potential rejection,
because this is what I believe, I gotta
stand for this, There's certain morals and stuff
that I'll always stand for, but in regards
to the beliefs of life and the way
we can live it, I wanna be open.
And so now with that mindset going in,
you know, I I've just seen I've heard

(42:52):
so many different stories around death, whether it's
near death experiences, exploring the afterlife, different modalities
people have used to get through hard times
in grief, and I've been able to use
those things in my life, not just grief,
just anything we go through in life because
I think grief
has a wide reach. It's not always just
death, it's not always just relationships.
Grief
is every emotion. So it's like, you can

(43:14):
grieve anything. A grief is literally a cluster
fuck of everything
rolled into one and just moving down the
hill. So it's like,
all these modalities of this conversation of grief
you can apply to so many aspects of
your life that it's helped me in certain
moments, whether it was my relationships, this or
that. So I've learned that, and I've been
able to apply those things and learn to
just sit with my feelings and understand that
sometimes that's enough. Like, the big thing for

(43:35):
me, as simple as is, is, like, when
I feel something,
feel it. Don't just get up and just
distract myself. Don't just get up. And it's
very simple, and people know this, but people
don't do this, and there's been a reminder
to just sit in the feeling. And sometimes
you don't have to go down the rabbit
hole of defining all my feelings. Sometimes you
gotta let the feeling be a feeling, let
it ride out, and then it truly releases.
And that's you do that long enough, you're

(43:56):
slowly letting the air out of the balloon.
Like, you're not doing it at one release
and the balloon's flying everywhere. So, a little
bit, a little bit, then all of a
sudden your balloon's a little deflated and you
feel more ease. And that just comes from
feeling and relaxing and allowing myself to go
through the process with grace and and no
judgment.
And then beyond the process of daily stuff
that has helped me, the afterlife is a

(44:16):
whole another whole another thing. I don't know
if you wanna go there, but I you
know, it's definitely Go anywhere you want.
Depends on how much time you have.
I mean, it depends on how much time
you have. This at this point, I think
my shirt's coming off because I don't know
why this coffee's making me so hot. But
I
I
I think I mean, I've always believed in
something, and I've had a lot of near
death experiences. Obviously, our conversations with hospice nurses

(44:39):
and you, of course, it's
the visioning and seeing and and those experiences,
like, it's really opened my mind, and and
I try to do it in a way
that I'm not I don't wanna do this
from a biased perspective. Most people say, oh,
that's what you wanna believe. I can differentiate
the two. Yeah. I want to have unlimited
Philly cheesesteaks in heaven. I want that. But
do I believe that? I don't know. No.
It's like there's a difference in wanting and
really thinking what's gonna happen. There's two different

(45:00):
things. You don't have to correlate them both
in my opinion. It's like, I want this,
but I you know, get what I'm saying.
I the near death experience stories from the
people I've had on, some of the books
I've read, like, Many Lives, Many Masters, a
little bit of Dolores Cannon.
I just see a lot of similarities. A
lot of differences, of course,
but a lot of similarities. And whenever I
hear similarities, I'm thinking my street sense, like,

(45:21):
okay, is everyone just plagiarizing and bullshitting everyone?
They're all just great liars.
Maybe.
Everyone,
why? I don't know. Possible, sure. I'm a
school of skepticism. Nothing's absolute. I could be
wrong. But then I'm like, this consistency is
just telling me maybe everyone's having similar experiences
for a reason. And again, I just want
to listen to what makes sense to me,
separate the biases and like this, that and

(45:41):
the other. So, yes, I think there is
something after what it is. I don't know.
But I do buy into reincarnation. I think
that seems like a likely if I had
to like pick my poison, I think we've
been here before. Sometimes I feel that. There's
too many synchronicities,
too many weird feelings.
And then people, like,
I understand the evidence based aspect.
Whatever you wanna believe, suck it up. We

(46:02):
don't have evidence yet. Just because we don't
have it now. Maybe we don't have precisely
that. We have anecdotes, we have stories, deal
with it. Like, like, twenty twenty years ago,
was not Internet a wild thing? Do we
think we're gonna have flying cars? Well, guess
what? We how many times do we think
about the technology of x amount of years
ago? There's no way there's gonna be flying
cars. There's no way there's gonna be this.
Now twenty years we're here, and now all
of a sudden that's routine. It's like it's
now no one questions it. It's like that.

(46:23):
Give science a shot. Give science some chance
because science is not absolute. We're gonna maybe
we'll get there someday. We're not there yet.
So all we have now are stories, anecdotes,
personal experiences, and there's rock and roll with
that. If you need evidence, then try to
live another fifty years. I don't know. But
I believe there's an afterlife and I see
a lot of consistencies with reincarnation. I see
a lot of consistencies with people saying, We
chose this life.

(46:43):
That seems to be a running theme that
we chose this life, which is hard to
swallow because everyone always rebuts the same thing.
It's like, Why would I choose to suffer?
Why would I choose the murder, the war?
And I get that. From a human experience,
I don't understand. It makes no sense to
me either,
but
it kinda makes sense to me because I
remember hearing Alan Watts one time, a philosopher
saying, just imagine everyone that's listening, put yourself

(47:05):
in a place, imagine this to be so.
Imagine Imagine you have unlimited lives. You can
just again, maybe it relates to past lives.
You can just have a thousand lives. First
life, maybe you try, you know, I want
I want an easy life, enjoy this. Next
life, I have more money. Next life, you
try all these opulent, pleasure filled lives, but
you do that a thousand you do that
a hundred times to do 150 times, eventually
you might get a little bored. And if
I go, I'm gonna let's see what this
life happens. Let's, like, push it a little

(47:26):
bit. I've already done a hundred lives the
entire time over and over again. Why would
I wanna do that and experience the same
thing with no involvement?
And you try something a little more risky.
You do this, and you come back. You
to the next step, woah. That was a
close shave. That was kind of exciting. And
then you keep pushing the limits. You have
to do a thousand lives. You keep trying
different things. You wanna feel different things. You
wanna try and experience and evolve.
And that just makes sense to me that

(47:47):
maybe that's we're here to evolve, we're here
to learn, and maybe we did choose this
life, which is crazy as that sounds, to
experience these human feelings, like go into an
amusement park. And I think it's hard to
understand from this human meat sack level
that just maybe we'll never comprehend because we're
not wired to even experience that. But I
can't. I've heard so many stories saying we

(48:07):
choose this life to be maybe reincarnate. And
when we go up there, maybe you'll be
a spirit guide, which to me, maybe that
just means intuition when we have these gut
feelings. I don't know. This is all
just wild speculation
slash anecdotal evidence, so I could be completely
wrong. But to me,
that ballpark without even going down more of
a tangent
resonates with me, and I'm like, I think

(48:28):
that might happen.
We'll find out. Shirley MacLaine, Shirley MacLaine wrote
a book pretty much about that. Like, there's
these different levels that you get to
as you have this afterlife. And, you know,
speaking about want and believe that
I like I also
think there's an afterlife I don't know what
it is just like nobody knows what it
is. I always think it has something to

(48:49):
do with our energy going out there but
as far as what I want I've rejected
the
reincarnation
because I I've never liked the idea of
losing
my consciousness and everything that I've learned and
gained in this life. It's never occurred to
me that there's a possibility that
when you leave this body, you go somewhere

(49:09):
else and you get to, like, look back
at after all your lives that you've had
and go, oh, it's pretty fun. You know,
like, I think I'll do this next time.
That never occurred to me. And and, I
guess that's kind of like one of my
favorite movies is what dreams may come because
I really like that perspective, which is really
what that is. It's like choosing a life,

(49:30):
living it, going back somewhere else,
assessing how that was, and making a different
life the next time. So Wait. So you
said losing your consciousness. You you getting the
feeling that when you reincarnate, you just you're
pretty much, like, starting over?
Yeah. Yeah. You forget everything that you you
know, whoever you were, whatever you learned, whatever
you did, you forget that because you're turning
into whatever now, a worm if you're someone

(49:52):
like Ted Bundy, hopefully.
But, you know, like, whatever
whatever you reincarnate
into, you're you have a whole new life.
It's it's just not something that ever crossed
my mind that, like, maybe there's an in
between where you actually are
looking back
and evaluating what you went through. Yeah. I
I also I also think, you know, there's,
like, the deja vu feeling, the feeling of

(50:14):
certain like, some people, like, when you meet
people Yeah. Yeah. You're just like, why is
that per that person is so wise. And,
yeah, they've gone through a lot, this, that,
and the other, but I still think there's
an amnesia.
Like, people and, like, Neil deGrasse Tyson on
the podcast, a lot of people along with
what he's saying. Like, do you remember before
you were born? And I'm like, no. He's
like, exactly. That's what happens before and after.
I'm like, okay. Yeah. That's a thought. But
imagine I wanna I should ask them at
the same time. I was like, this I

(50:35):
have to tell you, put yourself in the
basement. Imagine you did remember before you were
born. Would you be able to operate on
this world if you, like, remembered everything? No.
It would be it would be you'd be,
like, looking through you would not be able
to be a human being if you knew
what was happening constantly. So my theory, again,
is, like, we needed the amnesia,
but we have residues of recollection. We have
residues of wisdom, and that's like an old
soul and a new soul is to me.

(50:56):
It's like, you may not
some people may recognize past lives. I've had
plenty of people go through past life regression.
Again, many lives, many masters. Fascinating book about
one patient,
patient going through this whole transgression of past
lives with a doctor that didn't believe in
it. He was institutionalized like Harvard and Yale.
Doctor Weiss didn't buy into it, didn't know
anything about it, and it was took took
down this whole rabbit hole. Maybe it is
real, but we do come back with these

(51:19):
I think we come back with it's not
complete forgetfulness. It's amnesia to operate, but I
still think there's trickles of wisdom that is
within us because, again, I think consciousness is
not in us. And I think it's like
a I think we're like antennas and we're
pulling the consciousness from somewhere else. And I
think that is with us in some capacities
that allow us to evolve. Because if it
was like my theory again, if it was
starting new every time, then what's then there's

(51:41):
no evolvement. So it's like we start new
fresh with a new life with seeds of
who that consciousness has been and continue to
grow. And I think we need that to
evolve because if it was just maybe it
is, but if it was just a new
consciousness every time, then there's no chance for
evolving. Then you're just evolving in that life.
Right. But you're not growing in the grand
scheme of things. So I think it's the
same consciousness,
perhaps refreshed, rebooted, I don't know. And there

(52:02):
are synchronicities and understandings and intuition that when
we live this life, it's like, oh, some
people just respond better. Maybe it's the biological
response of experiences
being a human. Sure. That's a lot of
it. But maybe there's something a little deeper
than that, and maybe it's because our consciousness
has continued and our soul has continued to
grow because we've done this before.
Well, and we know know that evolution
cannot be disputed. Everything evolves. But, yeah, this

(52:25):
the deja vu thing is
that's something that to me when that happens,
I'm like, fuck.
What? Where is that coming from? Like Yeah.
I get it so strong that I literally
know what's going to happen next or what's
going to be said next, and it's uncanny
and sometimes a little unnerving that that happens.
But
yeah. Yeah. How about this this feelings?

(52:47):
Yeah. Let's go, baby. Let's hear it.
Let's hear it. I'm just looking at the
time and making sure we honor David's time.
So, I mean, I'm happy to speak on
it, but I wanna make sure we are
honoring time with him today. Are you okay
on time, David?
We're good on time. Let's let's let's let's
get your time going.
Yeah. I think I'm probably in between you.

(53:08):
I'm not trying to shy away from it.
You know, I'll talk about it.
There's a book called Journey of Souls, and
that's probably
the closest that resonated with me. It's very
similar to what you both have been talking
about, which is more of,
the ability to have a reflective time
from this universal
energy

(53:28):
conscious energy situation
and then going into
lives
to learn, to grow, to
enhance your being,
and then maybe eventually you don't wanna do
that. You just stay in the energy sphere
as,
you know, spirit guides or whatever. I don't
I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to anything
religious,

(53:48):
But as far as spiritual, I think that
would probably encapsulate the closest to
what I've read or or heard that resonates
for me.
That sounds about a lot like what we're
talking about. Mhmm. So yeah. What's it called?
I think whatever's gonna happen is gonna be
wild shit. That's all I know.
So That's all. Well, the there's two books,

(54:09):
but it's called Journey of Souls,
and it was, similar to that, many masters
book where it was a a psychologist or
someone or therapist or counselor that was doing
hypnosis from for memory, and they ended up
going further back. It what didn't plan to
be past life regression, but that's how it
ended up. And the book is kind of

(54:30):
a collection of the stories of his experience
with different patients and how
how he's interpreted that. So
there's two books. I forget destiny of souls,
I think, is the second one. But
Yeah. And and that that angle with Many
Lives, Many Master again, I like that. The
other one sound very similarly structured, but it
was just fascinating because he was coming from

(54:51):
a guy
that, again, didn't believe in it. He was
very scientific based, evidence based, and didn't know
about past lives. Didn't make any sense to
him, and he had to go down this
rabbit hole of trying to figure out what
it was, and it took him to a
whole different path. So I thought that alone
was a fascinating,
interaction.
Well, besides the Anunnaki,
is there something you've been surprised about that

(55:12):
you've heard
during your interviews?
Surprised?
Oh, man.
Besides the.
Okay.
I mean, pretty much every near death experience,
to be honest. And now it's become more
it's become it's become it's become more you
know what? No. Actually, I'm actually gonna bring
it back to hospice because
I didn't know you know, I've heard those

(55:33):
experiences, but when I talked to, you know,
had Julie,
nurse Julie, Penny, and Hadley on my show
and hearing the consistencies of the visioning,
like, obviously, I've heard those experiences, but I
remember when I first started, I didn't really
understand that it was, like, just institutionalized
and accepted.
I didn't at that time when I first
started I knew it happened, but I didn't
know it was kinda part of the curriculum,
correct me if I'm wrong, from took from
all my conversations.

(55:54):
It is understood. Like, this is, like, this
is going to like, if this happens, don't
freak out. Like, this is normal. But also
part of that surprised me. It's like, okay.
It's it's known, but there's still I mean,
you guys can let me know. Seems to
still not be like, the nail on the
head hasn't been answered. This is why it
happens. The oxygen, this, that. It's like, no.
This just happens, but we really don't have
a full understanding. Is that true?

(56:15):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Like, what is that? I mean, yeah. We
hear all kinds of theories all the time.
It's DMT.
It's lack of oxygen. It's the medication.
You
know? And, of course, we can dispute some
of that because not all of our patients
are hypoxic. Not all of our make patients
are having medications.
Not all of our patients are confused when

(56:35):
they have deathbed visions.
DMT, we don't really know anything about. And,
also, if it is DMT,
that doesn't mean that it's, you know, it's
not mutually exclusive. Right? It doesn't mean that
DMT isn't elevating something that actually is there
that they're seeing,
which is what I kind
of kind of believe now,
after I used to be like, DMT, stop

(56:56):
talking to me about fucking DMT. It's not
DMT.
And now I did some research, you know,
and I'm like, oh, maybe not maybe there
is something to that. But that doesn't mean
that just because it's DMT driven that it's
not real,
that it's not real
you're saying that. Because I don't know if
we have a complete understanding on dimethyltryptamine. I
don't even know if people have studied it,

(57:18):
but I still don't know from my understanding.
I haven't seen anything. It's like, oh, this
is what it's for, this is what it
does. And that alone is like, okay. You
lean into DMT.
It's that. And then, sorry, it's nothing. But
okay. But go deeper then. What does that
mean? Because it's DMT. What does what does
that mean? Like, kinda what you said. I
think DMT is
my woo woo brand. Like, DMT is a
portal in my opinion because I've done it,
first of all. And second, it is it's

(57:39):
without kind of defining what it's there for,
and maybe I'm wrong. I you tell me
if there is a definition as to what
real function is and why we have it
and anything confirmed,
but it's just like, that shouldn't be a
reason, like, oh, no. It's not real because
of DMT. But I'm like, what? Maybe it
is more real because it's DMT.
Right. Right. Exactly. Because I would like to
say, like, what's the purpose of it? Well,

(58:01):
we really don't understand this gray blob between
our ears anyway, so why would we understand
that one component of it?
Right. For real. I mean, who knows? There
is parts of our brain we don't use,
and who knows?
And then and then again, I wanna be
respectful of your time. You guys got me
in a in a tunnel that I really
like. The DMT thing,
it's like okay. So people, you know, dismiss

(58:21):
these experiences
for maybe just because it doesn't go along
with their beliefs, whatever, that's cool. And they
don't have the evidence. You can't put on
a document. You can't say, oh, show me
this. It's not a crime scene.
But until you have an experience, no matter
what it is, until you have an experience,
you're gonna be you might change your mind
on deciding what's real and what's not. And
so

(58:42):
obviously there's BSers in every part of life.
There's BS salespeople, this, that, and the other.
So you gotta allocate a percentage of bullshit.
That's just life. There's a percentage of bullshit,
of course.
But not all of it's bullshit. And until
you go through a certain experience and feel
it and understand, like, this is not a
dream, like, I've had dreams before. People say,
oh, it was just a dream. Have you
had a dream where you're, like, it just

(59:03):
doesn't feel like you haven't had that experience?
It's hard to speak on. And if you
wanna dismiss it, dismiss it, but to, like,
attack someone's experience,
that's a whole other ballgame. And back to
DMT, like, when I did DMT,
whether it's real or not, that shit felt
real. That shit was something else. I know
the difference in what's, quote, unquote, the human
aspect of real. Real is this account. Like,

(59:23):
this is our reality. It was not that.
It was not that. And granted, if it's
something that has to get me there, okay,
but that does not automatically define as that
not being real. Whatever's taking you somewhere real.
And it feels way more than anything you
ever felt in your life, for better or
for worse, that it's like, if that thing,
this substance, this thing can do that to
me,
we know nothing. That's what I'm saying. We

(59:44):
know nothing. Are you comfortable sharing what your
experience was?
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I
ironically, it was upon yourself, I just wanna
say.
Yeah. That was cool. I,
I did it. This is in 02/2016,
and, you know, I've been wanting to try
it for a long time. I had a
random meeting with a chiropractor that I became

(01:00:04):
friends with. He told me he did it.
He was scared to be a father, did
it, and came back ready to be a
father. He had a very existential experience that
completely shifted his his path and reality, if
you will. I was like, all right, set
me up, let me do it. And so
skipping some details, I ended up going to
some place and doing it and
it was very
ritualistic.

(01:00:25):
Yeah, that's cool, that's fine. I was in
this place that was very peaceful. The intention
would be like meditated, we set intentions, it
wasn't
recreational at all. It was like, okay, I'm
gonna go on this and see what happens.
And there's no climax to this story because
unfortunately I didn't break through, which means like
there's another level. So I got to like
one level. There was a whole another level
that unless you're there, you understand what I'm

(01:00:45):
talking about to get through. So I didn't
have the full experience, which is gonna get
me to do it again at some point
very soon.
And
I remember doing it and then
I went to this, it was terrifying because
I was conscious, like, when you get to
the next level, you're kinda like, that's not
there. You're not having these conversations. You just
launch off and you're completely out of control.
I was still having these thoughts in my
head once I took the medicine, if you
will, and I just

(01:01:07):
it was just like I went to this
place, this white place where I was scared
because it was such an overwhelming, powerful force
that I've never felt in my life that
was
scary. And then eventually, I got to a
place where everything was all white, and I
forget which happened first. But I remember she
I kinda came out of it real quick,
and then she gave me more for whatever
reason because my tolerance was heavy. I was
like, okay. Do it now before I say
no because it's terrifying. Just give it to

(01:01:27):
me. So I did it. Went to this
went to this place where I remember all
of a sudden I felt, like, a massive
power of energy go through my chest. It
was like an overwhelming
force of energy building and building and building
in my chest. And the girl behind me,
for whatever reason, saw something, she grabs my
head, pushes on my chest, and as soon
as she pushed on my chest, that ball
of energy that was in my chest just

(01:01:47):
completely released, and I was hysterically crying. It
wasn't sobbing, it was tears
flew out of my face that was from
the depths of my body that needed to
come out. No idea to this date what
that was, where it came from. She told
me, it was like, listen, could have been
from last week, could have been from when
you were 12. I have no idea, but
that had to come out. And it brought
out this energetic release of tears. No reason
why it just came out of me. Like,
it was like a knot in my stomach

(01:02:07):
that has been there for twenty years and
had to get released and it came out.
And there was a moment Wow. After that
or before that, I remember I was in
this white space and it felt they they
kinda compare it to dying. Like, even though
some people might not know what that is,
like, they just had to put a pin
on it. It's called, like, the dying molecule
I preach because it seems like it feels
like you're transitioning.
If I were to understand what dying feels
like, it was that. It was this put
me in this place at some point of

(01:02:29):
this fear at first, and then all of
a sudden it kinda calmed down. And then
I was in a white space, a place
of just
nothing material. I didn't have a body. I
didn't feel a body. I was just conscious
thought, and I thought everything's okay. I was
like, all my questions. I didn't have any
questions, but all my questions were answered. I
was in complete peace. Wasn't thinking about certain
people or things. I was just good in
this empty space where nothing I didn't see

(01:02:51):
a Ferris wheel. I didn't see anything. It
was just an empty space, and I was
good. And that that was the biggest part
of me besides the crying, which is bizarre
in itself.
That being at that place was like, I
feel like if there was a place of
dying, that's what it was and everything is
good. There's nothing to worry about. We're just
in this place and it's more beyond where
I was in my opinion, but that space

(01:03:11):
was no worries, I know everything, and I
am good. And it was a profound place
to be. And if you wanna call it
fake,
sure, maybe it was enhanced, but it wasn't
fake. That was I was there. And it
was it felt real enough to have impacted
my life. So to me, that's real enough.
Wow.
Well, we just spoke about psychedelic

(01:03:32):
assisted therapy. So this is Yeah. We just
we just had a guest on and talked
about psychedelic
assisted therapy for hospice patients
with ketamine.
But, you know, when you said that about,
like, it was enhanced, but it was real,
that's how I felt about,
like, when I talk about and I think
I've know I've probably talked to both of

(01:03:53):
you about my dad's death and him coming
to me after that,
and how I don't ever like to say
it was a dream
because
it minimizes the experience,
you know?
So because it was real. It was absolutely
real. But I had a similar thing happened
to me once. I was ice skating and
I fell and hit my head

(01:04:15):
on the ice.
And, I literally saw stars. I knew then
what it meant when people say they saw
stars. I saw stars,
and when I got up, I felt enlightened.
I said to people, I I feel enlightened.
Like, it did something to my my brain
that made me feel like

(01:04:35):
I was enlightened. It it was weird.
Now Yeah. It took me a long time
to get my shit together after that. So
I was only enlightened momentarily,
but
Nevertheless, I was enlightened. Yeah. Only for a
moment.
Momentary
enlightenment is still enlightenment. So you're good. Even

(01:04:56):
tell you what I was enlightened about. I
just felt like I'm enlightened. Something like, something's
triggered in my brain, and I just had
this experience that was, like, out of body
or I mean, as I was listening to
you describing what you went through, that's what
that reminds me of is I had this,
like,
just weird kind of like, oh, there's something

(01:05:17):
just happened and and it's all good. You
know? Touch of madness. And I I think
Yeah. I think I think this is all
madness and madness not in a negative connotation.
As I it feels like it to me
sometimes,
maybe the truth is madness because we're all
locked up seeing something that's not really the
truth. And I think we're all in this
weird little place
of thinking we understand reality because we're told
what reality is and we're pigeonholed and we're

(01:05:38):
stuck in a paradigm of that's not the
truth. I just truly feel like that. And
it's like not me trying to be, you
know,
going against the grain, but pardon me, at
this point in my life, I feel like,
which way are people going? Cool. I'm going
to go literally the opposite way because that's
like, that's where the truth is. It's like,
I'm not going to do it spitefully. I'm
going to listen to both part of me
at this way, the world is. I honestly
feel like I wanted to I'm a salmon.
I'm not I'm not going with the current

(01:05:59):
because the current to me is taking me
somewhere I don't wanna be. That's, like, how
I feel.
And I gotta tread light I gotta tread
lightly with that, but it's like you gotta
we gotta find our own path.
Well, and so much shit we care about
that we shouldn't even care about, really. For
real. You know, in the big picture, like
and it's so so hard to to not
care about those things. You know? Mhmm. Mhmm.

(01:06:20):
To get pissed because you can't open your
kitchen drawer because there's a fork stuck in
it, you know, and, like, that could ruin
your whole fucking day. And it's like, really?
That's, you know, there's just so many things
that who cares? Yeah. I just look up,
and I say, that's my easiest one. It's
like when there goes places, like, night sky
is great, regular sky is awesome,
but it's like sometimes I just look up
and I throw my hands out. I'm like,

(01:06:41):
what am I why does this matter? Like,
look, what is that? What is going on
up there? And again, we see the sky
every day, so it's routine. And the routine
things, the routine things to me are the
most magical things in the world. We just
forget it because it's routine, and we're told
in a science book, this is what it
means. Like, oh, yeah. Proton. It's cool. No.
What? It's like this everything is just so
crazy. Like, the wind every and it sounds

(01:07:02):
very hippie, whatever. It's
maybe the hippies had something right back then
besides the LS LSD or maybe LSD was
what was right. I don't know. No. LSD
was the right thing. Oh, first yeah. That's
a whole listen. That's another podcast. Yes. I'm
with you on that.
I am with you on that. There's a
reason why we can't do that, ladies and
gentlemen, and it's not for, not for our
benefit, but that's a whole other conversation.

(01:07:24):
Jesus Christ.
A shout out to Chaos, which is a
book by Tom O'Neil. It's called, Chaos, the
1960,
Chaos, 1960
CIA Charles Manson and JFK or something like
that. So if you want a little bit
of truth in what's happening,
you can edit this out, but read that
book. That book is a, a whirlwind
of,
some really, really wild shit that we're not

(01:07:46):
gonna talk about.
Well, speaking of not talking about things, is
there anything that we did not talk about
that you would have wanted us to cover?
And maybe even talk about dead talks on
the streets.
Yeah. I mean, it kinda correlates to that.
I don't know. I just think
obviously, I talk about death, and we talk

(01:08:07):
about death and this, that, and the other,
but it's
it's more than just that. I think it's
a conversation about
ultimately life because
it seems to be thinking may end there,
but it really just begins there in my
opinion. And I think
it's, again, the most common thing we all
share. Like, people say I've said this before.
People say death and taxes. That's bullshit too.
Not everyone pays taxes. So everyone's dying. It's

(01:08:29):
the one common bond in a world that
I think
is so intentionally
divisive right now for many other reasons that
if we can latch on to anything that
is going to bring make a common bond,
as morbid as it sounds, is death and
our mortality and us sharing the one thing.
So I just wanna bring a conversation of
people together that is inherently divisive in the
nature,

(01:08:49):
but it these are all talking about the
same thing. Like, people have different beliefs, different
perspectives, different experiences, but I wanna talk about
it. I wanna listen to people. I want
to encourage people to listen to other people,
even if you don't agree, and just listen
with an open mind. I'm not saying change
your mind. If you end up not changing
your mind, no. Great. But at the end
of the day, maybe shake hands. Like, oh,
that's what you believe. We're all kind of
saying the same thing sometimes. I think we're

(01:09:10):
all kind of saying the same thing. We
all kind of fundamentally want the same things,
whether it's love, safety, this, that, or the
other. And I just believe in more conversation.
I believe in exploring as many options as
possible in this vast world and
learning from other people and learning through your
experiences from other people can only enrich your
life. And I think if we can just

(01:09:32):
look for common ground, at least the intention
of common ground, let's go in there with
the intention. Let's try to find common ground.
Even if we end up disagreeing, hey, disagreeing
is common ground. Shake hands. Thanks for talking
to me. So I think this conversation around
what I think is the most common thing,
yet people don't wanna talk about needs to
be talked about, and hopefully do it in
a way that's, like, we're doing, like, lighthearted,
fun, because at the end of the day,

(01:09:53):
what the hell are we doing here if
we're not having fun? And,
that's my spiel.
Thank you for having me. If if this
is the end, thank you. Well, before you
go, we have one last question for our
season two guests, and that is our coffin
question.
Have you thought about and what would you
like to happen with your body when you
die?

(01:10:13):
Yeah. I was actually asked that recently. If
it was
I wanna leave it out to my family
because they're gonna be ones that have to
deal with me, so I don't care about
my body at that point. So there's two
things. A, I wouldn't mind being studied in
regards to if you want to use my
body to a proper foundation to study me,
I'll donate to science. But first you got
to run it by my Italian mother because
if she has other plans,
she's

(01:10:34):
going to bring a fist to the face
on that one. So I would rather write
in whatever my family wants because, again, I'm
somewhere else at that point. So it's whatever's
gonna bring my family more at peace if
I go before them,
let them decide and then,
you know, do with it what you will
because I don't need it anymore.
Alright.
Well, again, thank you so much for being
on with us today. Thank you for all

(01:10:55):
of the conversation and ongoing
with your podcast. We'll continue to listen. Where
can folks find you?
Whenever you get podcasts, if I think at
this point, if you look up dead talks,
two words, d e a d talks, it
should pop up in your browser. Otherwise, I
suggest, you know, listening to the full episodes.
You can get the short stuff on Instagram,
TikTok, YouTube.

(01:11:16):
But I think the real juicy stuff is
listening to the full episodes on Apple, Spotify
or watch it on YouTube. Also, people, you
can watch it on Spotify too. It's video
on Spotify by the way, which I don't
know if people know. But wherever you get
your podcast, again, I suggest, yeah, you should
put this on, if you put it on
Spotify, you should definitely upload the video. A
little pro tip.
Nice. Spotify is pushing video. Push they're pushing
video podcasts, so definitely

(01:11:37):
upload. I'll I'll teach you how to do
it if you want, but I suggest putting
on video Spotify.
We'll talk after. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Of course. But I thank you
for having me. I really appreciate it. I
love what you girls are doing. Thank you.
Well, that was very fun.
Okay. I'm not supposed to pick favorites, but
it was I mean, that was fun, but

(01:11:59):
I feel like Andrew
is always gonna be my favorite. Well, Andrew
is right up there, but I do really
like David, and I I love the conversation.
It was great. It was,
really interesting
and and like minds, you know, I always
like that too. You know how he was
talking about finding what we have in common
with other people, like reaching common ground.

(01:12:20):
And and I do think that something
that we we don't do a lot, especially
in today's political climate. You know, we're trying
to find differences, and I I really like
that sentiment of finding common ground. It really
is so much,
fun and to meet people and to be
like minded. So, yeah, that was really great.

(01:12:40):
I really really enjoyed that. And, you know,
I've been on a couple of those pods
in the past,
and, we're doing another one. So I'm, like,
super excited about that. Well and the things
he was talking about as far as grief
and how people in the same family unit
grieve separately, and I was just like, man,
I've had that conversation so many times
with bereaved families and, you know, post death

(01:13:02):
visits and things like that. And
I was just like, man, I wouldn't just
give up your day job as a realtor
and become a therapist.
Yeah. Right? I know. Yeah. He's very,
yeah. He's very, very smart and Very emotionally
healthy.
Emotionally healthy. Thank you. Exactly.
Emotionally healthy. I like that.
Yeah. And, I mean, he's definitely is one

(01:13:24):
of those guests who
we could probably have him on again. We
could probably have gone on for hours and
hours. Mhmm. Because,
really interesting guy. Great conversation.
Debbie Downer for keeping us on time.
Alright, Bob. Your time,
Always looking forward
to more
talks with people and learning about people and

(01:13:45):
normalizing death,
but we gotta remember to live because someday
we'll be dead, and maybe
we'll be reincarnated and hopefully not into a
worm like Ted Bundy.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2, Episode 11: Dead Talks with David Ferrugio

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

All Episodes

Season 2, Episode 11: Dead Talks with David Ferrugio

24/7 News: The Latest