Iceman to Ashes: The Val Kilmer Story (Episode 160)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Val Kilmer was one hell of an actor.
He didn't just play roles, hebecame them.
I mean seriously.
He spent an entire year livingas Jim Morrison.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I am the Lizard King.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yet there was a method to his madness.
From Iceman to Batman,audiences couldn't get enough.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
You can be my wingman anytime.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Behind the scenes, however, it was a different
story.
He had a growing reputation ofbeing difficult to work with,
you know, shouting at crewmembers, shoving directors, that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
So what you're saying is this guy's a total wacko.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Then, after years of Hollywood jail, he staged a
career comeback with a one-manshow about Mark Twain.
But as soon as he found hisvoice again, fate cruelly took
it away.
And now, to finish the intro,I'd like to channel the great Mr
Twain himself.
This here is a tale that's plumripe for the telling.

(01:02):
It's about a larger-than-lifecharacter who made some good
pictures and was faced withmortality far too soon.
Come sit a spell, laugh alittle cry if you must, and
remember, val Kilmer is yourHuckleberry.
That's today on Death inentertainment.
Live from Los Angeles 911,.

(01:33):
What is your emergency?

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Here in Hollywood now .

Speaker 6 (01:35):
Two counts of murder, injury and death.

Speaker 7 (01:38):
Oh my God, shocking new details.
That has stunned theentertainment world.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
This makes me a little nervous.
The hair stood up on my arms.

Speaker 9 (01:46):
Just like in the movies.
What do you call this thinganyway?
Death in Entertainment.

Speaker 10 (01:54):
Greetings Ditto Universe.
Hello there, what's up?
How is everybody?
What's going on?
My name is Kyle Plouffe.

Speaker 7 (02:00):
I'm Ben Kissel and I'm Alejandro Dowling Today's
episode of Death andEntertainment.
We are absolutely thrilled tobring you the life story of the
one and only Val Kilmer.

Speaker 10 (02:14):
Ooh, yes, this is going to be a crazy one.
We are talking about his death,but we are also a comedy
podcast, so we will be makingsome jokes, right?

Speaker 7 (02:23):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
get a margarita suck it through your tummy and enjoy
the show.
Yeah, his life is disturbingand funny, yes, and sad.

Speaker 7 (02:34):
Just like our podcast yeah just like the Joel
Schumacher Batman.

Speaker 10 (02:41):
Yeah, exactly which we will talk about in this
episode.
And here we go.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Okay, Val Edward Kilmer was born on December 31st
1959.
You remember what day that is?
No, the day he was born, thatis New Year's Eve, folks.

Speaker 7 (03:34):
Oh yeah, Wow, you actually stumped me on that one
Damn.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Because they make a big thing out of the New Year's
baby.
Yes, the first one born, butwhat about the last one of the?

Speaker 10 (03:46):
year trains leaving the station.
Yeah, I thought val might havebeen short for something.
It's just val val.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh wow, okay what'd you think it was short for
valiant?
Valerie, that's a woman's namevalerio, not that it matters.

Speaker 10 (04:01):
listen it, yes, but that was 1959.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Correct, sure, come on now.
I agree.
And he was born in Los Angeles.
Ooh wow, the great state of LosAngeles, beautiful town, just
seeing if y'all are awake Stateof depression.
Oh boy.
More specifically, it wasChatsworth.

Speaker 10 (04:23):
Oh, where they film all the pornography.

Speaker 7 (04:25):
Is that?

Speaker 10 (04:25):
right, yeah, wow, yep, and that's where Adam
Sandler threw a piano in thestreet.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oh, in Punch Drunk Love yes.

Speaker 10 (04:32):
No kidding, yeah, so there's a lot of weird stuff
happening there.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
All right, a lot of brilliant stuff.

Speaker 7 (04:37):
Yeah, it was a tough day to be a sound guy on the
porn set.
Yeah, don't do me harder, daddy, do me harder.
Did someone throw a piano onthe street?

Speaker 1 (04:46):
You see Adam Sandler in a big blue suit cursing to
himself.

Speaker 7 (04:51):
I can't come looking at you, Adam.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So his dad, Eugene, was an engineer slash land baron
.

Speaker 10 (05:00):
Land, baron, yes Wow .

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Very wealthy so Val grew up in affluence.
Okay, he was not a poor kid,wow.

Speaker 10 (05:11):
Like.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Anna Nicole in Texas.
Yeah, okay who had to eat herdinner on the dirt floor.
She says, yes, oh, that's toobad.
Complete opposite so they couldbasically do whatever they
wanted.

Speaker 7 (05:23):
Yeah, Anna Nicole Smith and Val Kilmer.
I do think of them as sort ofopposites.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (05:28):
I never thought of them together personally.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
No, and perhaps maybe a bit of kindred spirits too.
Okay, you know, because theyboth didn't give a fuck.

Speaker 7 (05:41):
I was always confused , because Anna Nicole Smith's
lawyer was named Howard Stern.

Speaker 10 (05:45):
Howard K Stern.

Speaker 7 (05:46):
And I couldn't figure out how the hell he could do a
radio show every day and takecare of this chick.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
And coincidentally Val Kilmer was later on Howard
Stern.

Speaker 8 (05:55):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
His dad was doing so well that he went and bought Roy
Rogers Ranch what?
Not just anybody can buy RoyRogers Ranch, where they make
the drink, the man that thedrink was named after it comes
out of the faucet.
Yeah, and the kids turned itinto a movie set of sorts, wow.

(06:17):
So Val was the middle brother.
Okay, he had a younger brothernamed Wesley and an older
brother named mark, and wesleywas a cinephile, he was a
fanatic of the files, that's thebest one that's the only file
that I actually kind of liked.
It's a tough, it's a tough thing, yeah and he would recreate

(06:39):
scenes from famous movies likejaws, and really well done too.
If you've seen the 2021documentary called Val, it
features a lot of his brother'swork at the beginning.
Oh, ok, cool, you could tellthat he's going places.
Yeah, so they had a lot of funwith that, and imagine how fun
that is in general, like noworries at all.

(07:00):
You get to basically have thisgiant playground to yourself.
Pretty sweet In California.
Yeah, you got wealthy.

Speaker 7 (07:05):
All you get to basically have this giant
playground to yourself prettysweet in california.
Yeah, you got wealthy parents.
What could happen?
What could go wrong with thosebrothers?

Speaker 1 (07:10):
and it worked out well because val was always
focused on acting and hisbrother was focused on directing
, so it was a very good team.
And in high school, you knowthe, the actress, mayor
Winningham, I don't know, Iforgive you if you don't, I have
no idea.

Speaker 7 (07:28):
It sounds like a horse, I don't know.
Oh my God, mayor.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Winningham.

Speaker 10 (07:33):
Mayor.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, she was in a lot of great things.
Okay, she was in the movieGeorgia with Jennifer Jason.

Speaker 7 (07:40):
Leigh.
Yeah, we come from a long lineof Winningham, turner and Hooch.
Yeah, turner and Hooch.
Oh, I did like Turner and Hooch.

Speaker 10 (07:47):
Miracle Mile, which I've talked about on this
podcast, being the scariestending probably to any movie
I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
She's the love interest.
Oh, she's the one that'sscreaming.
Yeah, oh, my god, that's ValKilmer's high school sweetie,
wow.

Speaker 7 (08:02):
Hide your pork, Hide your pork products.
The winning hams are coming andthey demand all ham.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
And his classmate was none other than Kevin Spacey.

Speaker 7 (08:14):
Oh, interesting Yikes .
Yeah, I mean, you never knowhow life is going to pan out.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
What was that like?
I wonder.
Because Val was into acting, hewas starring in all the wonder?
Because Val was into acting.

Speaker 7 (08:30):
He was starring in all the productions, but Kevin
was in.
I don't know I was going to sayin men's, but it doesn't matter
what I was going to say, beatme to it.
Yeah, there you go.
You take it, kyle.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Kevin must have been an egomaniac in high school,
competing for the same roles asVal.

Speaker 10 (08:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
So I wonder what their relationship was like.
Hopefully it was consensual.
Did they ever talk about that?
I couldn't find much info onthat.

Speaker 7 (08:53):
Yeah, it is rare to have two superstars come from
the same class.
Yeah, kevin Spacey must havegrown up fairly wealthy then as
well.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
He had a very strange upbringing.

Speaker 7 (09:02):
Oh, okay, I'm sure we'll cover that at some point
Hopefully soon, we'll be able tocover it Well, all right, we
don't wish death upon anyone.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I didn't mean it like that, oh okay, unfortunately,
although business was going well, eugene and Gladys divorced in
the late 60s, when Val was eightyears old, so that kind of-.
It's always a shitty thing,sours thing a bit.

Speaker 10 (09:30):
Yeah, it's brutal.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
And the thing is the dad had all the wealth and power
.
So the mom moved to Arizonawithout the kids and the dad won
full custody of the boys.

Speaker 10 (09:43):
Wow, what are you going to do If everything was
going well?
You're going to leave a baronjust to go to Arizona.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, you're going to leave.
You live at Universal Studios,basically, right, the former Roy
Rogers mansion Roy Rogers,baron of Grenadine, over here.

Speaker 10 (09:58):
You're leaving, what are you doing?

Speaker 7 (09:59):
She must have really hated that guy.
Yeah, let's go to a two-bedroomflat in Arizona instead of this
paradise.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
That doesn't sound too bad, but it is unfortunate,
though, because they loved theirmom and she was the main
practitioner, looking for theright word.
Main believer in Christianscience?
Okay, oh God, and so she goteveryone into that Jesus.
Believer in Christian scienceOkay, oh God.
And so she got everyone intothat Jesus.

(10:28):
Yeah, see you later.
Well, you know, don't judgeKyle Because you don't believe
in it too Well they don'tbelieve to get help for sick
babies and they let them die.
Oh, is that right, yeah, sowait what is?

Speaker 10 (10:43):
it exactly it's just garbage.
They think that people aregifts from God and you can't
intervene in God's work, so theydon't believe in modern
medicine.
And then, yeah, I think I'vetold this story on the podcast
before, but my buddy'sgrandfather showed up and there
was a dead baby.
They're like oh yeah, the babydied.
He's been sick forever.
And they're like well, whydidn't you get help and go to
the hospital?
And they're like we'rechristian scientists, we don't
believe in going to the hospital.
And so he was like he's a copand he's saying so.

(11:06):
If you were severely injuredright now, would you go to the
hospital?
He's like of course not.
And so he beat the shit out ofhim and he immediately went to
the emergency room.
Huh, that's a cop brutalitystory.
You can get behind that'sreally interesting.

Speaker 7 (11:19):
sometimes they beat up the right guy.
Yeah, exactly, All right therewe go.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
It's nice to hear a warm cop story sometimes Another
thing is Eugene had a lot ofaffairs and that's what partly
led to the divorce, so he wasn'treally that he sounds like a
wealthy land baron.

Speaker 7 (11:42):
Yeah, yeah he does so .

Speaker 1 (11:45):
One night Val had a strange dream and it's very
specific.
He read word up magazine.
He's hanging out with mayor,his high school gal.
Well, they were both in highschool at the time.
I don't want to make it soundlike Kevin.

Speaker 7 (12:03):
Spacey.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
And he's sitting there with Mare and her mom not
even his mom.
So he's talking with Mare andher mom in this dream and they
start talking about death.
And then Mare's mom tells himthat she's not afraid of death
because she was excited to meetthe creator.
Okay, and so he wakes up fromthis, doesn't think anything of

(12:30):
it.
But then that day, his brotherwesley his younger brother, the
director, the up-and-comingdirector had an epileptic
seizure and drowned in thefamily jacuzzi.
Oh my God, he was 15 years old.
Wow, that's an older person'sdeath?

Speaker 7 (12:51):
Yeah, Usually the jacuzzi.
You're in your mid-50s, youhave a martini, you have your
heart attack.

Speaker 10 (12:56):
You were on NBC for 20 years, sure.

Speaker 7 (12:58):
You're found by either a sex worker or an
employee.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Or you're at the Beverly Hilton and you just had
a smorgasbord plate delivered tothe room.

Speaker 10 (13:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you're about to go to a Clive Davis party.
Yep, then you drown.
Whitney Houston.
Yeah, so he suffered fromseizures and he had medication
for that, but his dad blamedhimself because he feels like he
wasn't strict enough aboutmaking Wesley take the pills all
the time and the circumstancesthat day that the housekeeper

(13:35):
was away buying groceries atthis moment.
So if someone had been aroundhe could have been saved right
and with that it's done.
Like his brother's dreams, likehis life is over and this was
absolutely devastating for valbecause they were a team and

(13:56):
after that val's dad, eugene,became detached.
The the life had drained out ofhis personality and he just
didn't really.
He never got his spark back,which I understand.

Speaker 7 (14:11):
Absolutely, it's devastating.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, it's a very traumatic event.
So Val uses that tragedy to, Iguess, inspire him to make it.
Yeah, that makes sense, youknow to fulfill.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
Live for his younger brother's dream Exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, and he becomes the youngest kid ever accepted
into the drama school atJuilliard Wow At age 17.
Good for him.
That record was later broken bysomeone named Seth Numrick
Numrick.
Oh yeah, Seth.
Someone named Seth NumricNumric.
Oh yeah, Seth.
Yeah, Seth Numric.
Who was admitted to the schoolat age 15.

(14:51):
Many years later, no one knowswho Numric is.

Speaker 7 (14:55):
Numric.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
While he was at Juilliard.
By the way, this is thestomping ground of Robin
Williams, christopher ReeveEveryone that matters, everyone
that matters, everyone thatmatters.
Val helped start a program forplaywriting, because I guess
they didn't have one at the time.

Speaker 7 (15:12):
They didn't have one of those at the time.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
No.

Speaker 7 (15:14):
Weird.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And he wrote a play with his fellow thespians called
how it All Began, about aleftist German militant, okay,
and he called this alife-changing thrill to be able
to perform his own words onstage.
And he was the star of thisplay.
Love it, it's Juilliard, youknow it's.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
New.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
York.
It's huge, you're young, jeezHandsome.
Yeah, all of the above.
Every box is checked here andhe's so confident at this point
because it's going so well.
He turns down an offer fromFrancis Coppola to do the
Outsiders Wow.
And instead he says you knowwhat I'd rather do?

(15:58):
Broadway right now?
Wow, because he's an actor.
Right, he's not an actor, right, he's an actor.
He would have an actor.
He's an actor, he would havebeen great in the Outsiders.
Yeah, but couldn't a lot ofpeople have been good in that?
It's not really what do youmean?
You've got to have a tongue.

Speaker 10 (16:14):
you've got to have nice arms, rough and tumble kids
.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I could have done that.
Hey yo, I'm a greaser.
Kick his ass.

Speaker 7 (16:25):
You could have done that line.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
I'm a greaser.
By the way, tom Cruise was inthat.
Yeah, a man he will share thescreen with in a little while.
That's not all they sharedeither.
Oh Okay, I don't even know whatthat means actually.
Very good, I don't even knowwhat that means actually Very
good.
The play that he had turneddown the outsiders for was

(16:54):
called Slab Boys, written byKevin Spacey.
No, but he became the thirdlead, behind Kevin Bacon and
Sean Penn.

Speaker 10 (16:59):
Those two were both at Juilliard.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
No, now they're doing this play on Broadway.

Speaker 10 (17:02):
Oh, now he's gone pro.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Slab boys, but he's supposed to be starring in it.
But then Kevin Bacon and SeanPenn roll in, and then the
director's like, okay, nowyou're the third lead, because
these two they're going to takeover, which again it sort of
makes sense because they had alot of buzz around them too.
Right, those two guys I mean,come on, yeah of course.

(17:24):
Six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
You don't make that game aroundjust anybody.
Yeah, absolutely.
And.

Speaker 7 (17:38):
Sean Penn.
He was right fresh off theBeaver Trilogy.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Remember that I don't remember the Beaver Trilogy,
just Google Beaver Trilogy.

Speaker 10 (17:43):
Okay, I think I did last night yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Pornhubcom.
Yeah, we're back in Chatsworthnow, but fear not, because Val's
movie career is about to belaunched with an underrated
comedy called Top Secret.
Oh yes, but this is quite themovie debut because he's the
star of it.
And this is from the ZuckerBrothers Before they found

(18:07):
success with Naked Gun.
This is their first.
Well, of course there'sAirplane and all that, but this
was like the first big one afterthat success, wow.
So they were trying toduplicate the formula in some
ways, but financially it didn'tdo very well Because it's sort
of like a world war ii comedyand I guess audiences weren't

(18:29):
into that.
And on the set, this is where,all right.
So val, fresh off juilliardbroadway.

Speaker 7 (18:38):
He's a method actor and he's taking it so serious
even, even for Top Secret, whichis a goofball movie, exactly so
he's asking the directors allthese questions about his
motivation.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Why is his character doing this?
Why is that lamp over there inthe corner?
Why is the Nazi symbol there?
So is he Buddhist?
He's roided on my jacket Am I a?
Buddhist, what's the point?
And they're just like look, kid, just hit your mark.
Yeah, so we can do the gagsright, I will say, in comedies

(19:13):
like that it's best to play themtotally straight oh, absolutely
like if you actually look atleslie nielsen in naked gun, he
is being pretty authentic yeahand I was shocked to find out,
after I had been a fan of allthe naked gun movies as a kid,
that he was a serious actor.
Leading up to airplane there's atwilight zone episode with

(19:34):
leslie nielsen and I watch itand I laugh, but it's not funny
and he's the captain in theposeidon adventure and he does
not have a very good fate inthat movie and it scared the
shit out of me as a kid becauseI loved him as Frank Drebin.
That's so funny.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I'm like no.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Not.
Drebin Don't die.
Really, and he played a seriousrole in this Barbra Streisand
movie called Nuts, where he'slike this violent asshole who
gets murdered.
Oh, I need to see that.
Yeah, back to Val.
So, yeah, top Secret didn't doso well at the box office, but

(20:12):
it got a lot of good reviews,including two thumbs up from
Siskel and Ebert.

Speaker 7 (20:18):
Wow, they liked the comedy.
Yeah, they liked the goofballcomedy.
They sure did Rare.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
After that he followed it up with Real Genius,
sort of a teen comedy, and heco-starred with John Grice from
White Lotus, who plays GaryGregg.

Speaker 10 (20:36):
Oh, yeah, nice, Uncle Rico.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
And Uncle Rico yeah from Napoleon Dynamite.
Another thing that blew my mind.
Those two are the same people.

Speaker 7 (20:45):
Yeah, that's where I know him from.
I haven't watched this WhiteLotus show.
I just hear so much about it.
I heard it's boring.
Then I heard all the familiesare having sex with each other
yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
People are like it's boring, it sucks, but I'm going
to make a million YouTube videosabout different theories and
explanations and reactions.
Yeah, so real genius.
That worked out pretty well forhim.
So now he's established likehe's in the movies, but the next
offer he gets is for a, a moviethat he wasn't too keen on

(21:17):
doing because he felt that itwas promoting warmongering and
it was a little too rah-rah.
Oh the usa, this is hollywoodman, that's what they do.
Yeah, a little movie called topgun thought the shorts were too
short but he was under contract, okay, so he had to do it.

(21:38):
It's a good thing he did it.

Speaker 10 (21:39):
Yeah, he ended up enjoying the experience so this
was a part of a multi-picturedeal for him then, yeah, wow.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, and he didn't see it that it was going to be
so successful, obviously.

Speaker 10 (21:49):
And it's his third movie.
It's his third movie.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's incredible Because, keep in mind, tom
Cruise wasn't Tom Cruise quiteyet Right, he was kind of like
Val Kilmer and like up andcoming had done a couple of
movies he had done RiskyBusiness at this point and
things like that.

Speaker 7 (22:05):
So he was sort of seen as a goofball lover boy,
yep.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, so this was the first huge blockbuster that
they're both a part of.
Yeah.
Okay.
So in the movie he's thevillain of sorts and Tom Cruise
is his rival, and so offscreen,val Kilmer played up that
rivalry.
He didn't speak to him thatmuch, and when Cruise and some

(22:34):
others would go to the bar, likewith Anthony Edwards, he'd go
to a different bar with theother guys.

Speaker 7 (22:41):
I like that.
Keep Kayfabe alive, that's prowrestling, there used to be
where the heels and the facesthey separated completely.

Speaker 10 (22:48):
this is good acting it's great, you're gonna get a
great product, but god, is itprobably annoying to be around
come on, you want to be with thebad boys no, this is classic,
like the method acting dustinhoff, where on the Marathon man
set, he's trying to get incharacter like running in place.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
And then what's his name?
The Thespian, the Master,thespian, master, thespian From
the Marathon man, oh, you know,I just remember a guy getting
choked up.
He's the greatest actor of alltime, dom.

Speaker 7 (23:25):
DeLuise.
I time Dom DeLuise.
I'm going Dom DeLuise, laurence.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Olivier, laurence Olivier.
Oh, okay, so Dustin Hoffman isrunning in place getting sweaty
like punching himself in theforehead and then he's like what
on earth are you doing?

Speaker 7 (23:41):
Dustin Hoffman's like I'm trying to feel this yeah,
I'm running, you know it's amarathon, I'm a marathon man and
then he tells him why don't youjust act?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
So there's the line I love that Method versus, I
guess, just acting.
Well, val is from the methodschool.
But yeah, as Kyle said, you geta good performance, I get a
great performance.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I would say why don't we check it out?
Actually, we have a scene fromTop Gun here.
You are still dangerous.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
You can be my wingman anytime.
Bullshit, you can be mine.

Speaker 7 (24:37):
Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss
kiss, kiss.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, there are a lot of homoerotic elements to Top
Gun.
You can be my wingman anytime,including that sweaty volleyball
scene.

Speaker 7 (24:51):
Oh, it was one of the sexier scenes of all time.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, incidentally, tom Cruise's love interest in
the movie, kelly McGillis.
She was a classmate of Val's atJuilliard.
Wow, you can't escape thesepeople?

Speaker 10 (25:05):
No, you really can't .
No, it's a small world.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's where.

Speaker 10 (25:08):
Seth Nagoni or whatever.
His name was Numric.

Speaker 7 (25:11):
Numric.
Where are you Numric?
Yeah, I was the youngest kidever to get invited to Juilliard
how about it.

Speaker 8 (25:19):
Hey buddy, can you just pump my gas already?

Speaker 7 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, jersey just treats me well.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Speaking of Uncle Rico, that guy's probably
talking about how he broke Val'srecord.
Anyone who'll listen?

Speaker 7 (25:32):
Absolutely, I was 15.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Val was so hot as an actor that he brought Cher to
the premiere Woo.

Speaker 7 (25:44):
Wow, still absolutely beautiful to this day.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
And she never stopped loving Val.
To this day, cher, theyremained very close, even though
they broke up, wow.

Speaker 10 (25:55):
Okay, yeah, did she wear assless chaps?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
I'm sure she took them off for him.
Nice so Val is now extremelysuccessful.
You know one of the biggestactors around.
Yeah, Nice so Val is nowextremely successful.
One of the biggest actors around, and his dad is on his way down
at this point.
So he still wanted to keep theland-bearing thing going,

(26:19):
because he owned a lot of wellland in the valley, but he
wanted more.
So then Val would co-sign loansfor him, and then, when those
projects fell through, val hadthe choice to either sue his dad
or just write him another bigcheck.
Yeah, it's tough to sue yourdad?
Yeah, so he just wrote him thecheck.

Speaker 7 (26:40):
Okay, so his dad was kind of failing financially.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yes, I see so you know that's not great, but you
got a feel for the guy.
He's gone through a lot.
Yeah, After that Val does amovie called Willow.

Speaker 7 (26:56):
Yes, my favorite Val Kilmer movie.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Which Kyle shocked us just before saying he'd never
even heard of it.

Speaker 7 (27:03):
I never heard of it is one thing.
Usually I've heard ofeverything I don't watch.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
How did you miss Willow?

Speaker 10 (27:11):
I didn't know Warwick Davis and Val Kilmer
were in the same movie.

Speaker 7 (27:14):
Yes indeed, Warwick Davis, super stud yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
And on the set he met his future wife, joanne Wally.
They married that same year.
That Willow was released in1988.
And he had felt a special bondwith the state of New Mexico
after visiting there as a kid,because that's where his grandpa
resided.
And so he decided let's move toNew Mexico and start a new life

(27:41):
.

Speaker 7 (27:42):
I love it.
Nothing bad could happen there.
No, nothing at all.
Nope.
My wife is from Spain.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
And he never really liked the Valley.
In fact, he's on record assaying he hated the Valley.
Wow.

Speaker 7 (27:57):
I would assume it feels like you're at work all
the time Right yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:01):
And you get out of the Hollywood bubble, which
we'll go over a little bit later.
People weren't so kind to him.
When you're not doing so well,it's brutal and he loved his
life in New Mexico, herdedbuffalo.
Oh all right, and he flirtedwith the idea of running for

(28:23):
governor even.
Wow, no kidding, how's that?

Speaker 7 (28:26):
That's interesting, governor Kilmer.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
I'd vote for him.
Yeah, why not?
So Val is at a crossroads,career-wise.
He's just experienced thebiggest success a young actor
could experience.

Speaker 7 (28:40):
Right, top Gun With Top Gun.
And then I'm assuming Willowprobably wasn't quite the hit
that they wanted it to be, noteven close, but it was a cult
classic oh, yeah, now peoplelove willow and it did pretty
well on video, okay, and that'sprobably how you remember it of
course, yeah, yeah because itwas, there, were.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
It was like that back then, like there'd be a
perceived huge flop, but thenyou'd see it all the time at the
video store.
Dave Lebowski is a primeexample.

Speaker 7 (29:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Absolutely so.
Now Val is itching to work withsome of the great directors.
He loved working with TonyScott, by the way, who directed
Top Gun, and he loved workingwith Ron Howard, who directed
Willow Wow, which is anothersurprise if you didn't know that

(29:28):
.

Speaker 10 (29:29):
He has such a weird filmography.
Yeah, I thought he just startedgetting into directing in like
the early 2000s.
I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
He's been since like the 80s.
He did Willow and Apollo 13 andEd TV, ed TV.

Speaker 10 (29:42):
Yeah, like what the fuck.
With McConaughey.
Yes, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
No, the other Ed TV.

Speaker 7 (29:48):
And then he also made the JD Vance docu-movie.
Oh God that's right.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Wow, with Glenn Close .

Speaker 7 (29:56):
It's so bizarre.
The.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Hillbilly Elegy yeah.
And she was nominated for botha Razzie and an Oscar for the
same performance.
Razzie and an Oscar for thesame performance.

Speaker 7 (30:03):
Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
She's like listen to me, boy, You're going to be big
someday.
Make your grandma proud.
See, I could have won an Oscarfor that movie?

Speaker 7 (30:12):
Absolutely, you still have a chance.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Val sets his sights on the Stanley Kubrick and he
makes an audition tape for FullMetal Jacket.
Not only that, and, by the way,he does like eight different
versions of a soldier in thetape, like a brave one, a shy
one.
You know, yeah, all thedifferent character types they

(30:37):
expose and then he books aticket to England and-delivers
the tape to Kubrick.

Speaker 10 (30:46):
Oh, while he's doing Eyes Wide Shut.
No, no, this is way before.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Oh yeah, way before.
Yeah, this is in the 80s.

Speaker 7 (30:52):
Right, yeah, is that creepy or is that good?
Well, if you're Kubrick, you'relike, hey, you're, hey, you
know how?
Do you know where I live?

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, I know I directed A Clockwork Orange, but
this is a little creepy here.
A little strange, but I know,but he makes a hard pass on
Kevin Moore, unfortunately.

Speaker 10 (31:13):
Probably because he's so involved and he knows
he's going to be very involvedtoo, and they can't both be that
involved.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Can't do it.
That is wow.
That's so insightful of Kubrick.

Speaker 10 (31:22):
Yeah, I mean he's like dude.
Why the fuck are you here rightnow?

Speaker 1 (31:25):
So then Matthew Modine walks in the room like
hey, how's it going?
You're hired, yeah.

Speaker 10 (31:31):
He's like dude, if you're showing up to my house
across the pond, you're going toshow up to my trailer and
really annoy me.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yes, well, hollywood is the most fickle of all
romance and if you want it toomuch, they'll be like no, yeah,
it was, pretend like you're toocool for the job.
It's like whatever which valkilmer was also good at doing,
so that's why it's like it's toobad that well, some people saw
his potential.
But yeah, but yeah, I guess itdidn't.

(31:57):
It didn't work that time, but Imean in the sense he was
definitely with that persona inthe 90s, like too cool for all
this.
Oh yeah, like he didn't care atall.
Yeah, so then he sets his sighton Martin Scorsese.
Oh, and he makes he's goingdown the checklist An elaborate
audition tape for Goodfellas,like hey, bada, bing, bada go.

Speaker 7 (32:18):
You know I could see him in full metal jacket.
Goodfellas, he's not fat enough.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I actually think he's too attractive.
Leota was fat, no, I know, buthe's got a big old fat head.

Speaker 7 (32:28):
Yeah, he looks like he could eat a lot of meatballs.
You know, fat is an attitude.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Well, Val Kilmer could have later been in
Goodfellas then.

Speaker 7 (32:38):
Yeah, I just can't see young Val throwing someone's
legs into a trunk and then belike they don't fit and then
breaking them and stuff.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
You're right about Goodfellas Full metal jacket he
could have easily killed it inthat role.
Yeah, he could have donesomething, maybe in Goodfellas.

Speaker 10 (32:56):
Another method actor is Vince D'Onofrio.
He got in trouble for openingup his own PI agency and trying
to take on real cases andthey're like you can't do that,
wait what.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
When.

Speaker 10 (33:05):
When he was doing Law Order.
Really, yeah, he's anotherfreak when it comes to method
acting.

Speaker 7 (33:10):
Oh my God, jesus Christ, that movie the Cell
still haunts me.
Oh my God, yeah, with.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
J-Lo.
And he's of course, brilliantin Robert Altman's the Player.
Hell, yeah, he, he's the TimRobbins victim.
Yeah, don't want to giveanything away here.
So then Val sets his sights onOliver Stone.
Maybe Oliver is as mad as Valbecause he loves the crazy

(33:36):
audition tapes he gets.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
It's Val singing Doors songs, acting like Jim
Morrison, and he did a great job, so he got the role.
Okay, he memorized all thelyrics to every Doors song.
All right, that's dedication.
Yeah, not even memorizing thescript.
Yeah, also, the entire catalogof the Doors.

Speaker 7 (33:59):
Right, I mean I'm just to push back just a little
bit.
It's not the most intricatelyrics.
Light my fire.
I kind of remember that one.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
And in the movie that was supposed to be so
controversial, the moment whereWell, I mean in real life, it
was when on Ed Sullivan, he'slike Couldn't get much higher.
It's like, come on, doesn'tmean anything.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Do you get it who?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
cares.
Yeah, you make a good point,but at the same time you are
emulating an icon, Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (34:36):
It's not exactly easy to do.
Who died the way all rock starsshould die fat.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Fat and in France.
Oh nice, you didn't know that.
No, I didn't know.
He was in france.
In fact, his he's buried thereand his grave is a tourist
attraction.
That's what a frenchman said tome once, uh, when I was there
as a young man.
Okay, I wanted to go check outthe mona lisa or something, but

(35:02):
he was like I can show you jimmorrison's grave, I'd rather see
the.
But he was like I can show youJim Morrison's grave, I'd rather
see the grave.
No, I was like I don't need tosee that Interesting, I just
want to see Mona Lisa.

Speaker 7 (35:14):
He's got a little hump for his little belly.
That would be kind of nice.
The Mona Lisa's boring it'stiny.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
It is very.
It can fit in my pocket.
I don't get it.
Yeah, but so is a gravestone.
It's like Boston.
You go there.
It's like, oh, here's where themassacre happened and there's
where the tea party happened.
It's a fucking Dunkin' Donutsnow.
It's like come on, get a Dunkiewhy even bother.
Bacon egg and cheese please.

(35:50):
It's on a T-joint, that's fordamn sure.
Apparently, he spent thousandsof dollars on the eight-minute
audition tape Yikes.
And then get this To preparefor the role.
He stayed in character as JimMorrison for an entire year.
Oh my God, so annoying.
And it drove his wife Joannecrazy.
See, this is what I'm talkingabout.
Yes, he would dress in hisclothes, go to his old haunts on

(36:10):
the Sunset Strip.

Speaker 10 (36:13):
I don't know.
He's probably crying while he'sleaving.
Like you, have a family.

Speaker 7 (36:18):
No, I don't, I'm Jim Morrison.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
And he was so consumed with Morrison that he
had to seek psychiatricassistance to get help to get
Jim out of his head.

Speaker 7 (36:31):
I agree with Lawrence of Olivier.

Speaker 10 (36:33):
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 7 (36:37):
It's like who's that one dude recently who couldn't
stop being Elvis?
Oh, Austin Butler, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, he went to the Golden Globes and when he got
his award he was like thank you,thank you very much.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
And it wasn't facetiously.
He said he had to go to classesto un-Elvis himself.

Speaker 10 (36:56):
What the hell is happening.
I got de-Elvised.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah.
I think they would do us all abit of good to de-Elvis
ourselves actually.

Speaker 7 (37:05):
Oh my God, I know I haven't been regular in a while.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
This reminds me of Jim Carrey on the set of man on
the Moon, where probably formore than a year he went around
going.
Thank you very much, pissingeverybody off.

Speaker 10 (37:20):
No.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Jim, I asked what do you want for lunch?
Thank you very much.

Speaker 7 (37:25):
I guess I have a soft spot though, because he did so
good yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
He did and he didn't?

Speaker 7 (37:30):
He also wasn't correct with Larry Lawler.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Jerry Lawler.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
I'm sorry with Jerry.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (37:37):
That's your friend.
No, I know.
No, no, no, I love that, thoughyou corrected me in a pro
wrestling thing.
I love that, though, youcorrected me in a pro wrestling
thing.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yay, you guys think I don't know anything about
wrestling.
He's becoming a real boy.

Speaker 7 (37:49):
Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman were actually friends
and that was one thing that Jimdidn't understand, Because Jim
was very mean to Jerry Lawler,but in reality backstage they
would just laugh and laugh.

Speaker 10 (38:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (38:03):
Because they were pulling the wool over everyone's
eyes.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, that always confused me, that behind the
scenes that he was cruel toJerry Lawler.
Yes, yes, yes, because it wasfamously known that him and Andy
Kaufman were friends in reallife.
Yes, so if he was authentic, hewould have been friends with
Lawler.
Yes, and you're right, it is avery good performance.
He would have been friends withLawler.
Yes, and you're right, it is avery good performance.

(38:28):
But what I'm responding to islater on, when I rewatched it,
after the magic faded.
Like I loved it when it firstcame out when I was young.
But now it's very I don't know,like almost like cringy, the
way they recreate the AndyKaufman moments.
You know like this guy'sbrilliant and it just comes off

(38:48):
as kind of annoying.
Now, yeah, all right, but Ithink it's about as good of a
Kaufman movie you could make.

Speaker 7 (38:55):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I thought it was great.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I'm dying over here.
Help me out, guys.
The surviving members of theDoors said that when they
listened to Kilmer's voice, theycouldn't distinguish it from
Morrison's.
Oh my.

Speaker 10 (39:12):
God, that's amazing.
How's that?
I mean that probably made hisentire life.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
So he embodies Jim Morrison.
Everyone pretty much acceptedthat was the best casting for
that role.
An example of like, like wow,they got that right, absolutely.
And there was buzz about anoscar nomination.
Oliver stone has just come outrecently and said that that he
was robbed that year.
So what do you think?

Speaker 7 (39:36):
you think he deserved that I think the oscars always
get it wrong they sure do.

Speaker 10 (39:41):
Yeah, like this year , they made it seem like they
were going to give it to demimore for the substance yeah, she
just had to live the movie theyalso just came out and said
there was, they had a 12 milliondollar oscar winning uh
campaign for that girl who wonfor anora.
They sent.
They spent 12 million dollarssending out uh packages to all

(40:02):
the uh voters.
That's disgusting, and thebudget for the movie was six6
million, by the way.
Wow, no, so the fix was in onthat one.
Oh my God, she did great, butit's all politics.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
It really is.
Are you trying to tell me thatHollywood is cutthroat?
I guess, so I don't want tobelieve it, it's on the take
baby.

Speaker 10 (40:29):
It's a little corny, I think.
So let's get to tombstone, andI'm not talking about the pizza.

Speaker 7 (40:31):
I'm not talking about the finishing move from the
undertaker.
Yeah, what if he tombstonessomeone on a tombstone pizza?

Speaker 10 (40:36):
oh so that would be great.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
Burn your scalp yeah oh, hot pizza, but if it was a
cold pizza you could getconcussion oh, that's true, the
though if you put Iceman on it,then it would cool down.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Right.
There you go.
I don't know, tombstone is aWestern.
Did you know that?

Speaker 4 (40:55):
What.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And it came out at a similar time as another Western
with Kevin Costner called WyattEarp.
Oh yeah, tombstone also hasWyatt Earp and Val Kilmer plays
Doc Holliday.
And Tombstone beat Wyatt Earp'sass at the box office Whoa.

Speaker 10 (41:10):
It's like Dante's Peak and Volcano coming out at
the same time.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yep, and this, of course, is famous for a certain
line.
Let's listen to it.
I didn't think you had it inyou.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
I'm your huckleberry.
Why, johnny Ringo?
You look like somebody justwalked over your grave.

Speaker 8 (41:37):
Fight's not with you Holiday.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
I beg to differ, sir.
We started a game we never gotto finish Play for blood
remember.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
He is good, Mm-hmm.
And again, people say he wasrobbed for an Oscar for that
movie.
Yeah, and that line I'm ahuckleberry.
That's something that DocHolliday did say in real life.
It was one of his favoriteterms and some people misheard
it as hucklebearer.
Okay, Because I guess hucklewas a term used for the handles

(42:14):
on caskets at that time.

Speaker 7 (42:17):
Well, what does huckleberry mean?

Speaker 1 (42:20):
So you would think to them maybe it has to do with
Huckleberry Finn.
That's what I thought you wouldthink to them.
Maybe it has to do withHuckleberry Finn.
That's what I thought.
By the way, mark Twain is ahuge hero of Val Kilmer's, but
it's not.
It has nothing to do withHuckleberry Finn.
So it really was just a linethat.

Speaker 9 (42:41):
That just makes no fucking sense.
It doesn't really make sense.

Speaker 7 (42:44):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
So Val Kilmer wrote an autobiography near the end of
his life and he titled it I'myour Huckleberry, and he said
that it means I'm your man, likeyou've met your match.

Speaker 7 (42:58):
All right that works.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
That works Interesting.

Speaker 7 (43:01):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Fine, I'll take it.
And in the movie, Doc Hollidayis dying of tuberculosis which
we've learned, is not a verypleasant way to go.
No, vivian Lee from Gone withthe Wind.

Speaker 10 (43:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
And we both had it last summer, or all three of us.
Yes, yeah, nightmare.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
That was not fun.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
That was not fun.
So in his death scene Spoileralert he had the crew put A bag
of ice under his bum.
Saw this, so that he could beauthentic.
It was all cold and shit.
Is that method, you think, Iguess?
Or is that cheating?
It's not cheating?

(43:44):
No, you have to act Like you'recold.
Yeah, well, it's something.
Or is that cheating?
It's not cheating, it's cold.
So then he can be like I'm cold.
No, you have to act like you'recold, well it's easier if
you're actually cold.
I guess.
So Val Kilmer enjoyed traveling, you know, and he went to
Africa Okay, after Tombstone, toexplore, okay, and while he was

(44:09):
in Africarica, he went inside abat cave, oh no.
And then he gets a message fromhis agent about an offer for
his next movie.
And you know what that moviewas?
What?
The saint no batman, foreverall right, the third batman.
And the Saint no Batman Forever, all right, the third Batman.
And to keep you up to speed,there were two other Batmans
before this.
Yes, theatrically, all right.

(44:32):
Now I'm just talking in circles.
There was one silly Batmanmovie based on the series.

Speaker 10 (44:38):
In the 60s, Adam West yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
But the first real Batman movie Tim Burton, 1989,
michael Keaton.
They both came back for thesequel Then both of them didn't
want to do another one Right?
So then Joel Schumacher comesin and he's hot off of Falling
Down.

Speaker 7 (44:56):
Which was a great movie.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
I think of that movie all the time when I'm sitting
on the 405.
Absolutely Just want to get outof my car and leave it.

Speaker 7 (45:05):
Every time I get a fast food burger, I think about
it.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, does this look like the picture, and so Val
Kilmer says yes, without evenreading the script, because he
thought it would be cool.

Speaker 7 (45:19):
Yeah, who the hell wouldn't want to be Batman?

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Well, val Kilmer eventually, because on set it
wasn't as much fun as he thoughtit'd be.
Apparently, the costume weigheda ton.
You could hardly move in it,and when he wore it he also
couldn't hear anybody else, sohe was required just to stand
there and then deliver the lineon cue.

(45:43):
Meanwhile, he's surrounded byTommy Lee Jones as Two-Face and
Jim Carrey as the Riddler Right,giving these really big
performances, as they hate eachother as well.
Yeah, oh my God, what was thatline?
I cannot sanction yourbuffoonery.

Speaker 10 (46:01):
Yeah, because he was up for Cobb.
When he was up for Cobb wasdestroyed.
It was his Oscar swing against.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
No pun intended.

Speaker 10 (46:10):
Yeah, against Ace Ventura in Dumb and Dumber and
the Mask.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
And so we got a lot of interesting dynamics going on
here.
Meanwhile, val Kilmer isjealous of both of them.

Speaker 7 (46:24):
That they get to really like Right.
Well, he's wearing 200 poundsworth of suit.
Can't hear anything.
Probably can't really be methodthen.
No.
Not really, because Batman canhear very well.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
And move around in that suit.
Yes, we've seen it happen.
Yeah, so it was very isolatingfor him and he wasn't in a great
mood.
There's a report that he wasverbally abusive to a crew
member and then director JoelSchumacher called him out and
then Val didn't speak to him fortwo weeks.

(46:56):
Oh so imagine making a moviewhere the main actor won't speak
to you.

Speaker 7 (47:02):
Right, that would be difficult.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Schumacher later called val childish and
impossible and the mostpsychologically disturbed person
he ever worked with that's howI would describe that movie, and
this is impossible and this isthe man who worked with nicholas
cage, mind you wow, nicholascage is the stud.

Speaker 7 (47:22):
He's a stud I.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, so that's not great, but hey.
And then there was anothermovie right before this he did,
called the Real McCoy, where heallegedly fired a prop gun after
arguing with the director, whoa.

Speaker 7 (47:39):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, alec Baldwin style, but how's the performance
?
Let's take a look.
This is a scene where NicoleKidman, by the way, plays his
love interest Dr Chase Meridian,and, if you'll recall, she was
married to Tom Cruise at thattime.
You know, maverick, I'm goingto bang your wife.
Yes, indeed.
So Val's now the love interestto Tom Cruise's wife.

(48:01):
Take that.
My opinion as a letter writeris a total wacko.
Val's now the love interest toTom Cruise's wife.
Take that.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Huh, my opinion is that a writer is a total wacko.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Wacko Is that a technical term.
Patient may suffer fromobsessional syndrome with
potential homicidal tendencies.
Does that work better for you?
So what you're saying is thisguy's a total wacko.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
With dialogue like that it can't fail?
No, and I guess his turtleneckwas too tight.
Oh really no, I just made thatup, poor guy.
Well, none of that matters,because money talks right.
Batman Forever was a hugecommercial hit?
I'm sure it was.
I saw it in the theater, so didI, and it was one of the most

(48:48):
exciting movie experiences of mylife.
Yes, I was so excited to seethat movie.

Speaker 7 (48:55):
What's wrong with you , Ben?
You don't remember this.
No, I liked the Michael KeatonBatman.
I didn't like this goofballBatman.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Even at the time, you didn't get into it.

Speaker 7 (49:05):
I would take Adam West Batman, Because he's trying
to get rid of a bomb but hecan't because there's a bunch of
ducks.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
It's so underrated because this gets lumped in with
Batman and Robin like stupidand mind you, there are stupid
elements.
But it is a fun popcorn movie.
It's really like 1995, themovie.

Speaker 10 (49:27):
With one of the biggest songs of the decade.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, Kiss from a Rose.

Speaker 7 (49:31):
Yeah, that's true, I did like that song.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Right.
And then you got Drew Barrymorein a supporting role.
You got Sealed Flaming Lips onthe soundtrack.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Jim Carrey.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
His first big payday after becoming a superstar from
Dumb and Dumber.
This was so cool.

Speaker 7 (49:49):
I was watching Japanese death matches around
this time.
I don't think it really wasn'tviolent enough, all right, fine.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
So you loved Batman and Robin, the follow-up, I take
it, the porno.
So Val took no break afterfilming Batman and he
immediately moved on to Heat.
Ooh, yes, this is good, the LANoire directed by Michael Mann,
and actually that movie inspiredChristopher Nolan's the Dark

(50:21):
Knight.
Hmm, so Interesting.
Wow, batman, you know.
Yeah, michael Mann said of ValKilmer, quote I could not figure
out how Val Kilmer couldtolerate being Val Kilmer.
In any scene, an actor anddirector do scene analysis,
which is the action, or whatdoes the character want?
Sometimes it's in the text,sometimes it's in the subtext

(50:44):
Val would have seven or eightdifferent reactions and
modalities, every one of them,which is great.
I couldn't imagine having suchan artistic range and depth,
more than it's possible tocontrol.
Wow, high compliment.
And I wonder if Val he lovesthe movie and basically, who
doesn't?
Yeah, he's great, it's such anamazing movie, like the shootout

(51:10):
sequences.
You're seeing legends togetherAl Pacino, robert De Niro.
But I wonder if, in the midstof all that, val Kilmer was a
little jealous of Pacino?
Ooh, why?
Because Pacino got.
What line did he get?

Speaker 10 (51:26):
to say he got a big ass.

Speaker 7 (51:28):
Yeah, well, I mean, not everyone gets the best line.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Then he went on to do a movie called the Island of Dr
Moreau.

Speaker 7 (51:41):
And this was a classic.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
This was a very doomed production.
Oh my God, this movie isfascinating the original
director, richard stanley, wasfired because the studio didn't
think he he's a psychopath he'sfucking nuts.

Speaker 7 (51:59):
They didn't think he could handle the material no,
this is not on the studio.
He could not.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
He is crazy and so there's a rumor that he
convinced the makeup crew toturn him into one of the
background mutants.
That happened, and so thattotally happened.

Speaker 7 (52:16):
There's a great documentary on it.
Oh shoot.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
At the wrap party he finally unmasked himself.
Val Kilmer later mentioned thatStanley would yell at him
between takes in the dog manmakeup.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
It's like who is that ?

Speaker 1 (52:30):
guy and he was replaced by John Frankenheimer
as director.
This is an esteemed director.
He directed the ManchurianCandidate previously and a movie
called the Iceman Cometh.
Coincidence, bum, bum, bum.

(52:50):
And then I saw this title inhis filmography and I'm
intrigued.
99 and 44 hundred percent dead,as in 44 out of 100 percent
dead.
That's the name of the movie.
Yes, 94, I mean 99 and 44, 100%dead.

(53:11):
Well, I don't get it.
It's a math problem.

Speaker 7 (53:14):
It's a math issue.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
I looked it up and it used to be in the ivory soap
commercials.
That was their slogan thattheir soap was 99 and 44 out of
100% pure.
Oh my God.
Well, that's weird.

Speaker 10 (53:28):
Naked gun 33 and a third yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
So I have to see this movie now.
Sounds like Scott.

Speaker 7 (53:34):
Steiner math.
For those pro wrestling nerdsout there.
You'll know what I'm talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
So you think John Frankenheimer came on set and
everything was good?
I don't think so.
Everything was all well?
I don't think so.
Everything was all well?
I don't think so.
No, not at all, no, no, no.
He did not get along with ValKilmer.
They fought instantly.
They had creative differencesand in a private vlog, kilmer
started recording him while theywere arguing and you can hear

(54:03):
Frankenheimer begging him toturn the camera off and then Val
tells him that no, it has tostay on because it's a witness
to show that Frankenheimer isbeing unfair and they hated each
other.
And afterwards Frankenheimersaid that if he was directing a

(54:23):
movie called the Life of ValKilmer, he would not cast Val
Kilmer.

Speaker 7 (54:29):
I mean, that would make sense actually.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
And Val said that the only reason he did the movie in
the first place was to workwith Marlon Brando.
Who was?

Speaker 10 (54:40):
a nightmare on set too, Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (54:44):
Well, this is big Brando, this is big fat, happy
Brando, I mean, although he wasreally angry.

Speaker 10 (54:50):
And painted white.

Speaker 7 (54:51):
Yeah, yeah for no reason.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
And sometimes they painted this other big fat guy
white to look like Brando, sosome people didn't know if it
was Brando or the other guy.
Jesus, some days.
And then one morning bothBrando and Kilmer refused to
come out of their trailers untilthe other one did, and they

(55:16):
lost a whole day of shootingbecause of that, oh my God.
And then Brando would requestlarge amounts of cabbage and
then eat it about an hour beforehe was due to shoot the scene,
and then he would silently fartso that Kilmer would be thrown
off guard.
What, oh my God?

(55:36):
What's happening?
But Kilmer later claimed thatthey actually did get along on
set.

Speaker 10 (55:41):
All right that it was all very playful.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Okay, this movie also features the world's smallest
man, and Brando became obsessedwith him and would kind of keep
him on his shoulder like a pet.
I remember that guy.
It was his request to have himin the movie too, brando, he got
whatever he wanted.
He's come up a lot latelybecause, remember, he worked

(56:04):
with the great Selena in DonJuan DeMarco While on set.
Another thing to add toKilmer's craziness is that he's
watching CNN one afternoon andhe sees a report that his wife
is filing for divorce.

Speaker 10 (56:26):
It's so weird how many celebrities find out things
about their personal life onthe news Really.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
That's crazy.
And he was served divorcepapers on set.

Speaker 7 (56:35):
Wow, no shit Of the Island of Dr Moreau.
It's a terrible experience.
Yes, not a good time for himNot at all.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
After that, he burned a cameraman with a cigarette On
purpose.
Well, that's what they say Jeezwho knows?
And in his autobiography hewrote that it was Daryl Hanna
who was actually the love of hislife and the one who got away.

Speaker 7 (57:01):
I thought you were going to say Daryl Hammond, yeah
, maybe.
Yep, you never know Greatcharacter actors.
Maybe you never know Greatcharacter actors.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yep.
She later married Neil Young.
Of course, Daryl Hanna did.

Speaker 7 (57:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
They're still married .
Wow, yes, what, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Neil Young ain't no slouch, come on.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Well, he's a little slouchy.

Speaker 7 (57:21):
He was known as one of the worst dressed men.
I mean, I love Neil Young.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
He's kind of the epitome of slouch Now that you
mention it, but one of myfavorite, of course.
So Val Kilmer then makes amovie with Michael Douglas
called the Ghost in the Darkness, about a killer lion.

Speaker 7 (57:43):
Okay, makes sense.
They didn't really change thenarrative there for the lion,
huh no.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
So he's been gone a while making these weird movies
and being Batman, and when hecomes back, his reputation is
really catching up with him.
So while he's promoting theGhost in the Darkness, he
appears on the Today Show andBryant Gumbel grills him.

Speaker 10 (58:05):
Bryant Gumbel- Gumbel Come on, Gumbel.
Gumbel goes after him.

Speaker 9 (58:11):
Over the past year, you've had a lot of bad press.
How come?

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Well, I had a lot of good press too.
My defense is that I've beenworking, I've been out of the
country, I didn't have apublicist and didn't really have
a chance to defend myself, andafter I did Batman, I went
immediately into Heat because Iwanted to work with Robert De
Niro and we should note that'sthe title of the movie.

Speaker 9 (58:34):
Go ahead.
What are you talking about?
I didn't get heat, I was inheat.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
You know, write about people they're not interested
in.

Speaker 9 (58:41):
Is it that simple though?
I mean there were, you know,for example, I mean directors
have been.
You know, joel Schumacher saidyou were difficult to work with
Frankenheimer said he'd neverwork with you again.
By now everybody's seen MarlonBrando's quote about you, that
he chooses the size of hispaycheck with the size of his
talent.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
I mean why, are these people saying things if they're
not?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
true, marlon didn't say that and Joel asked me to be
in A Time to Kill while we werestill editing Batman and very
much wanted me to do the sequel.
So it wasn't because he didn'twant to work with me, it's
because I chose to do the sequel.
So it wasn't because he didn'twant to work with me, it's
because I chose to do the saint,and in batman I play two
characters and the saint I playabout 15.
So it was kind of mathematicalwill you allow?

Speaker 9 (59:21):
there's been a cumulative negative effect on
your image of all of this stuffno, he was quite handsome, oh
yeah I do think he's, he's kindof cool.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, and so was Val Kilmer.
Oh hey, Brian Gumbel Gumbel.
I love how Brian Gumbel'sacting like he's the arbiter of
good behavior.

Speaker 7 (59:44):
Also, they didn't grill Bill Clinton as hard as
that.
No shit, all right.
Fine, he's difficult.
He's an actor who has a bit ofan ego.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (59:59):
This is the guy who in in a memo said that he hated
willard scott what?
And found him annoying.

Speaker 10 (01:00:02):
Willard scott if you were a hundred.
You made it on that show.
Yeah, he's a wholesome guy ryangumbel.
That is wow.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
You just got gumbled, gumbled, gumbled whoa, and then
let's see how he was treated.
On david letterman oh wowletter.

Speaker 10 (01:00:15):
You know he could be mean to some people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
David Letterman asked him about this and said he made
up a list of all theaccusations.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Oh Jesus, and so just say is it true or not true when
I brush?

Speaker 6 (01:00:28):
on some of these.
No, that's not true.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
Okay, you wanted the director of that movie, island
of Dr Moore, to be fired.
No, no, not true.
Shoved Batman director.
Shoved the Batman director.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
No, didn't do that, Not true?
On the set of Tombstone, yougrabbed a locust, an extra hat,
and ate it Well that is true,all right, let's see.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
That is true, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
You shoved Bob Dole off stage at a campaign stop
last night.
You were responsible for thebreakup of Hall and Oates.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
I was young I reformed.

Speaker 7 (01:01:18):
you were responsible for the breakup of Hall and
Oates that's your classicletterman.
There you go.
It got any gum.
That is your classic 90sletterman.
He never said that, by the way.
Yeah, that was norm that was no.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yeah, so you can see that Kilmer is having a bit of
fun with it.
Yeah, that was norm.
That was no, yeah, so you cansee that kilmer's having a bit
of fun with it.

Speaker 10 (01:01:38):
Yeah, kind of brushing it off his shoulders I
mean he's lucky he got the goodside of letterman, because he
could have tried to bury him too.
He was having fun with him,which is good yeah, well, he's
not lindsey lohan.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
No, true letterman only treats people he probably
doesn't respect like that yes,love me, a me, a Lindsay Lohan
buddy.

Speaker 10 (01:01:58):
And the guy who played McFly's dad, Crispin
Glover.
He was super mean to him.

Speaker 7 (01:02:03):
Well, Crispin Glover was insane.
Well, crispin Glover was onacid, come on now I mean I like
Crispin Glover's a lot.
Yeah, I like him.
I mean I don't know if I likehim.
He's an interesting person,sure, yeah, I mean I don't want
to be best friends with the guy.
Now that he wants to be friendswith me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Well, anyway, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, they used to call himExtra Crispin.
Nice Mm-hmm the Saint did notturn out to be a hit.
I saw it, it was fun.
It is a fun movie.
I didn't know it wasn't a hit.
No, it wasn't.
And then he followed that upwith At First Sight, but not

(01:02:42):
many people saw this.
Nice, okay, I'm done.
I'm really done for the day.
On set, mary Sorvino said sheloved working with him.
Oh good, and found him easy towork with.
Positive news.
Can you imagine when she saidthat in the interview?
They're like wait, are wetalking about the same person

(01:03:03):
here?

Speaker 7 (01:03:03):
Well, Hollywood gets a narrative and then they just
go with it.
It's like Jennifer Aniston'snever going to find love.
It's like she can bang amillion men right now if she
wants to, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Then he does one final big studio movie, red
Planet, which was a big flop.
Okay, I never heard of it andhe did not get along with Tom
Sizemore on set, but then again,who did?

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
Yeah, that's fine, that's probably on Tom Sizemore
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
There's a story where , on the set of Heat, that
Kilmer would antagonize Sizemoreby stealing his bag of cocaine.
Oh, that'll do it.
Every week he'd steal it andthen he would pretend to help
him look for the guy who stoleit yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:03:49):
Sounds like my family .

Speaker 10 (01:03:50):
They'll steal your wallet and help you try to find
it.
That is aggravating.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
In 2004,.
So Kilmer's worked with a lotof pretty good directors.
He didn't get to work withKubrick or Scorsese, but he's
worked with Tony Scott, joelSchumacher by the way, I forgot
to mention that what was sort ofsaid in the Brian Gumbel

(01:04:16):
interview?
That he did officially turndown Batman and Robin to do the
Saint.
So that's quite a decision.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:04:25):
Sounds like it was a horrible experience, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
And then he worked with David Mamet for the movie
Spartan in 2004.
And you got to hear a little ofthis DVD commentary.
Oh, this is incredible.
This came from a friend of theshow, Mark Mulcair.
You remember him.
He sent us this amazing clip.

Speaker 10 (01:04:47):
Yeah, where he discusses his time on set.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Yeah, his love for David Mamet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
That's David's style.
He writes in a lot ofparticular rhythms.
That's why it's so frustratingwhen he cuts all the good stuff,
messes up his own rhythm.
I don't understand him.
He's cruel.
He hates actors.
Having failed in the professionhimself, I hate him.
The other thing is the hair hishairdo what is that?
Wow, I mean, I mean.
And the glasses.

(01:05:12):
What I find amazing is hiscourage, though I mean, to still
wear a beret in 2004.

Speaker 6 (01:05:18):
You've got to have guts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
You've got to give that to him.
I'm proud of this film and forDavid Mamet, because I think
it's the least cussing I mean torely on profanity is
embarrassing really.
Fuck it.
See with the effing, why has hegot to go there?
I think it's great that Davidhired Bill Macy to play a bad

(01:05:41):
guy, because he is almostinsanely jealous of Bill.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
Bill's had a lot of success.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
They've known each other for 35 years and success
that is alluded, David Mamet Wow.

Speaker 10 (01:05:51):
To feed Mamet to his friends, mamet Holy shit.

Speaker 7 (01:05:54):
Oh my God, god he went in.
Oh, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Wow, so that is his persona, doesn't give a fuck
right.
That got good reviews, by theway, spartan, but David Mamet
does have a very mixedfilmography if you ask me
because he has some great ones.
Obviously he wrote GlengarryGlen Ross I Love House of Games

(01:06:25):
but he also did movies likeState and Maine and Heist and
Phil Spector on HBO with Pacino.

Speaker 6 (01:06:35):
And he went on record as saying he thinks Phil.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Spector on HBO, yeah, with Pacino, yeah, and he went
on record as saying he thinksPhil Spector is innocent.

Speaker 7 (01:06:40):
We simply don't know, do we?
We simply don't know.
We kind of know, we pretty muchknow.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
So, anyway, then, val Kilmer does Kiss, kiss, bang,
bang, and this was a comebackfor everyone involved, for
director Shane Black, because hehad been kind of on the outs
since the debacle Last ActionHero.

Speaker 7 (01:07:03):
I loved that movie.
I thought it was great.
It was a debacle.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Oh, it was a big flop , it opened around what yeah?
And it opened at the same timeas Jurassic Park and Jurassic
Park just devoured it.
It's so good and Jurassic Parkjust devoured it, it's so good
Jurassic Park.

Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
it devoured everything.
It did.
But that movie was great.
I was like I can be sucked intothe movies too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Yeah, I agree, I saw it on video and I watched it all
the time.
I loved it.
Yeah, and it works.
It's very funny and the actionis good.

Speaker 7 (01:07:35):
I didn't trust anyone with a fake eye for years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
It's amazing.
It's really like the stunts andit's so satirical.
Yeah, but unfortunately peoplejust wanted to see dinosaurs and
Wayne Knight.
Yeah, well, who doesn't want tosee Wayne Knight?
Newman Also in Kiss, kiss, bang, bang Bang.
Robert Downey Jr and this wasbefore Iron man.

(01:07:57):
This was when he was aliability in Hollywood Because
of all his drug use, and this isa very funny movie.
If you haven't seen it, go seeit.

Speaker 7 (01:08:07):
Yeah, this is maybe my favorite Val Kilmer film.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Yes, yeah, it's hilarious and he plays a gay
detective Named Gay Perry.
It's very tongue-in-cheek yesand tongue-in-butt.

Speaker 7 (01:08:22):
Well, yes, it is yes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
And then he did a couple of comedies to round out,
the what do they call it?
The naughties, the oddies.
Yeah, the oddies, the naughtyoddies.
That's weird the 2000s, ifyou're normal.
And he did MacGruber.
He played the villain, so good.
Great death scene, yeah, anendless death scene, yeah.

(01:08:46):
And then he appeared in.
Well, why don't we just playthe clip here?

Speaker 7 (01:08:50):
Oh boy this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Alejandro's favorite movie of all time my favorite
scene from that movie.

Speaker 10 (01:08:57):
Favorite scene from your favorite movie.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Mariska Hargitay, your holiness, Mariska Hargitay
Val Kilmer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Oh, he took off a little petal from the flowers.
Why do you hurt me?

Speaker 6 (01:09:16):
I know why.
I know why.
I know why.
Mariska Hargitay, guruPiddiwala, mariska Hargitay.

Speaker 10 (01:09:23):
Mariska Hargitay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
Mariska Hargitay.

Speaker 6 (01:09:28):
Kyle, don't ruin it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
I so enjoyed your sutra especially the part about
not being a victim.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Oh, thank you, Because you are such a generous
benefactor, we are establishingthe Mariska.

Speaker 10 (01:09:37):
Hargitay Special Victims Unit.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
You're smiling, kyle, and that is, of course, the
love guru.
Yeah, which was another flop,but oh, it was Dare, I say cult
classic, sure, yeah, you can saythat, just because I'm a
seiyurist.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:10:01):
No one else says that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Kilmer did work with Oliver Stone once again in
Alexander, and he had to gainweight for the role and
unfortunately, after that hestruggled to keep the weight off
.
Well, he's not a young mananymore either.
No, and the tabloids were notvery kind to him.
There was a 2007 Daily Mailarticle where the title was Val

(01:10:28):
Kilmer from Batman to Fat man.

Speaker 7 (01:10:31):
Come on, Daily Mail, you gotta do better.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Do they, though?
Nah, not really.
They're pretty bottom of thebarrel, true, true.
And then he had money troubles.
So in 2010, he owed a bunch ofback taxes to the IRS, and in
2011, his ex-wife, joanne, tookout a lien on his ranch in New
Mexico after failing to payabout $27,000 worth of child

(01:10:59):
support.
His kids, by the way, wereMercedes, born in 1991, and then
Jack, born in 1995.
And then there was anotherlawsuit from a company called
Executive Consulting, and theyclaimed that Kilmer hired them
to help with his financial woes,but that they were never paid.

(01:11:20):
So it's a big mess, right?
He ended up selling his land inNew Mexico.
He had visions of starting anartist colony there, but
unfortunately that didn't cometo fruition.
That's probably for the best.
There was a colony there, butunfortunately that didn't come
to fruition.

(01:11:40):
That's probably for the best.
And he hightailed it to Malibu,which he nicknamed Valibu.
Oh fun.
In 2012, he decided to betterhimself and he lost the weight,
but then wouldn't you know it?
What happened?
The rags the tabloid ragsthought that he lost too much
weight.
Oh, you can never win and wrotethat he was gaunt and he said

(01:12:06):
quote can't win in this crazytown.
Too heavy for too many yearsand now gossip says too thin.

Speaker 7 (01:12:10):
Yep, you can't base your self-worth on these
schmucks.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
So, after he sold his land, he sets up shop in
Southern California and he usesthe profits from selling his
6,000 acres of land to fund hisMark Twain project, because I
told you that was one of hisheroes.
In fact, this is probably hisbiggest hero and he wrote a

(01:12:38):
one-man show called CitizenTwain.
I get it, I don't love it but Iget it.

Speaker 7 (01:12:46):
I don't want to besmirch the dead, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
And he said there were many parallels between the
two of them.
Besides both being geniuses.
Twain had lost some of his land.
I guess he owned a river.

Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
He lost the river, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
His daughter died very young.
That was a tragedy.
So he compared that to hisbrother, his brother Wesley, and
then they both had debts thatmade them go on the road to pay
them off.
Okay, so you know it's verypersonal for him.
Yeah, and then they both talkabout huckleberries, they do
yeah, exactly, and in 2012 hecame up with the one man show.

(01:13:31):
Um, he was doing all sorts ofmark twain projects, and so he
performed the show at theHollywood Forever Cemetery.
Oh nice.

Speaker 7 (01:13:39):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
And later at the Kirk Douglas Theater before touring
the country with it.
He said about the show quotethat it's simply bearing down on
the big questions what and whois God?
To me, what's at the core ofTwain's soul?
What does it mean to be anAmerican?
What does it mean to be a realartist?
Twain is an honorary foundingfather, so I was very much

(01:14:02):
interested in his love ofhumanity and specifically
Americans.
He perhaps did as much asPresident Lincoln did to
confront racism in our lives.
We owe him a solemn debt.

Speaker 7 (01:14:13):
Okay, so he's back to the theater.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Yes, and there's another connection to Mark Twain
that he related to, becauseMark Twain wrote a book on
Christian science, but you knowit's sort of fuzzy, I can't tell
he was also critical ofChristian science.

Speaker 10 (01:14:31):
Yeah, it took his mother away.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Yeah, and especially its founder, mary Baker, eddie.
So I think I think Val justliked that.
He seemed to be obsessed withChristian Science, okay, even
though Val, very much you know,is a Christian scientist.
So I don't know it's.
It's weird, though.
It's kind of like there weresome Nazis that were obsessed

(01:14:57):
with the movie American HistoryX.
Yeah.
And I just want to say to themyou know that's anti-Nazi right,
but for some reason they lovedthe movie.

Speaker 7 (01:15:07):
They're just like anyone talking about it.

Speaker 10 (01:15:08):
It depends what time they stop the movie.

Speaker 7 (01:15:11):
Right, that's true, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
About halfway through .
Yeah, right, that's true.
Yeah, about halfway through,yeah.
So now I have a couple clipsfrom this 2013 interview that
Val Kilmer did with Larry KingAll right, the late, great and
in this first clip he talksabout the Mark Twain project.

Speaker 6 (01:15:31):
The difference between praying in the casino
and praying in church, don't youWell in the casino.

Speaker 8 (01:15:47):
They really mean it.

Speaker 6 (01:15:52):
Well, hear me, lord.
You know why the Dalai Lamaloves the casino Because, he
loves Tibet.

Speaker 10 (01:15:59):
This is like a stand-up show.

Speaker 7 (01:16:00):
It's not.

Speaker 8 (01:16:04):
All right, I love it.
That's terrific.

Speaker 6 (01:16:07):
That must be such fun .
You know it's a lot of fun.
Those aren't twain quotes.

Speaker 8 (01:16:12):
Those are just jokes.
Of course he didn't know theDalai Lama.

Speaker 6 (01:16:16):
But to tell a joke on stage and get that immediate
response.

Speaker 7 (01:16:22):
Oh my God, Larry King's the best.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Of course he didn't know the Dalai Lama.
I'm hip, I knew that was madeup.

Speaker 10 (01:16:28):
What are we stupid?

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
And then they get into the deep conversation about
a subject that terrified MrKing All right, I am no pun
intended deathly afraid of it.

Speaker 8 (01:16:46):
You say you don't believe in it.
Death.
When you say you don't believein it, I'm afraid of it.
How do you feel about it?

Speaker 6 (01:16:54):
I don't believe in death.
What do you mean I believe?
Well, if we just look at itphysically for a moment, we are
literally physically one thing.
If you just pull backphysically and look at the
planet Earth, we're part of oneorganism.
This is how I see the physicalworld, and I accept that there

(01:17:15):
are things in the physical worldthat are not as we perceive
them.
Heaven is a state of mind, it'sconsciousness.

Speaker 8 (01:17:24):
But I know I'm not going to exist and that just I
can't do anything about it.
But it's like Woody Allen saidI'm not afraid of death, I just
don't want to be there when ithappens.

Speaker 6 (01:17:35):
I like that.
I can think of a Mark Twain oneabout death too.
I changed it from Cincinnati toAustralia.
If I die, I want to die inAustralia, because everything
happens there 10 years late.

Speaker 8 (01:17:49):
We have some social media.
We're never going to answerdeath.
We have some social mediaquestions for you.

Speaker 7 (01:17:54):
Never going to answer death.
'll have some social mediaquestions for you.
I'm never gonna answer death.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
I love it oh man, I miss larry king.
So while rehearsing for the oneman show in nashville, kilmer
noticed that there was somethingwrong with his voice it wasn't
as strong as usual and hepostponed the show, and he then

(01:18:18):
coughed up blood and was rushedto the hospital.
Well, it turns out that he hadthroat cancer and he was
diagnosed in 2015.
At first, he had no plans tomedically intervene because he
was a Christian scientist and hethought that you could pray it
away.

(01:18:39):
But then his kids, mercedes andJack, convinced him to undergo
chemotherapy and surgery.

Speaker 7 (01:18:47):
You can do both.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Yeah, and the treatments were successful and
he was cancer-free weresuccessful and he was cancer
free.
He underwent a tracheotomywhich permanently damaged his
speaking voice and theyinstalled a feeding tube on him
and a voice box.
And get this.
He said that he believed thetreatment caused his suffering.

(01:19:11):
Oh God.

Speaker 7 (01:19:12):
Well, I mean, yeah, chemo does cause a lot of
suffering.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
Yeah, suffering, oh god.
Well, I mean, yeah, chemo doescause a lot of suffering.
Yeah, no, but he said that theprayer is what took his cancer
away.
Well, and now he's left withthe side effects of the physical
intervention.
Oh boy, you know, but he didnot speak openly about this, he
kept it a complete secret.
Yeah, so he had to cancel histour, which was devastating,

(01:19:40):
because he was having so muchfun going around being mark
twain, and instead he turned itinto a movie called cinema twain
.
Okay, is that better than fine.
And so he started touring withthat.
Yeah, but people were startingto notice.
Obviously there were a lot ofpaparazzi photos that showed him

(01:20:02):
grabbing his neck and wearingscarves Right, and people were
like, hmm.

Speaker 7 (01:20:08):
That's a tough thing to hide, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Yeah, like what's going on with you.

Speaker 6 (01:20:13):
I'm an ass-caught man now, mm-hmm, yeah, what's going
on with you?
I'm an ass cop man now Mm-hmm,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
And example of this speculation is I have a clip
here from TMZ.
This was in 2016, when he waspresenting his movie at a film
festival, and it's the firsttime people heard his new voice.

Speaker 5 (01:20:32):
Last night in Hollywood, val Kilmer shows up
to introduce a screening of hisnew movie, citizen Kane, and
when he addressed the crowd itwas very obvious Citizen Twain.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
Sorry, did I say Citizen Kane you may have, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:45):
Citizen Twain.
When he addressed the crowd, itwas very obvious that he is
battling something he wouldn'tlet on what it is, but it was
very hard to understand what hewas saying.
You will hear this and he triesto explain it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
I went to the hospital down in Florida and I
started having trouble with myspeech, my tongue swelled up.
That has a chance of a tumor.
Can you pause it?
So as I'm coming, I don't knowif the listeners can understand
what he's saying, but he'sbasically just saying that he

(01:21:19):
has a swollen tongue.

Speaker 7 (01:21:21):
That's why he sounds different.
You can still understand himand he's recovering.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Yeah, it's just rough .

Speaker 10 (01:21:26):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
I want to add something else that, before he
admitted it, michael Douglascame out in the press and
confirmed that he had throatcancer.
My wife's pussy was poison,yeah that's right that he got
from eating CatherineZeta-Jones' vagina.

Speaker 10 (01:21:44):
Hell of a way to go, yeah, I mean there were
probably people lining up to getthe same cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
But hold on.
But Val Kilmer was pissed andwrote on.
Facebook that he doesn't knowwhat Michael Douglas was talking
about and that he's sorelymistaken.

Speaker 7 (01:22:06):
So he just never Val Kilmer's.
Like I never eat pussy and Istill got it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
I will say you guys can understand that what he just
said no, but that was just onepoint.

Speaker 10 (01:22:21):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
He said I'm showing the movie so that I don't have
to talk.
Yeah, got a big laugh and goodsense of humor about this.

Speaker 5 (01:22:29):
You should get that checked out.
He's dabbing, you know.
There is something reallyupsetting and troubling about
this whole thing, and it's soweird to me that Michael Douglas
came out with a statement andthen Val Kilmer came out and
said it's not true.

Speaker 4 (01:22:43):
And said it's not cancer.

Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
It's just so weird.
I've never quite seen anythinglike this.
All right, Throat cancer,Harvey.
You never saw it.
Jeez, I hate TMZ so much he'sconcerned.

Speaker 10 (01:22:58):
No, he's not, he'll fuck.
He's a gay man that wentthrough like the aids epidemic.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
He's like I've never seen anything like this after a
long hospital stay, kilmer threwhimself into painting, much
like david lynch did when he wasill, although he always painted
.
But now Val Kilmer isrediscovering the artist within.
Incidentally, kilmer had turneddown roles in Dune and Blue

(01:23:23):
Velvet and I believe heregretted that decision.
He also turned down a role inthe Matrix to do that blind
movie at first sight Okay.
Some might say that's sort of abad choice.
What was he going to do inblind movie?
At first sight, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:23:38):
Some might say that's sort of a bad choice.
What was he going to do in theMatrix?

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
I think he might have been for.

Speaker 7 (01:23:42):
Neo.
No, he's not Neo.

Speaker 10 (01:23:44):
He could have been the agent.

Speaker 7 (01:23:45):
Yeah, he could have been an agent, but he ain't no,
neo.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
The only stupider decision was Will Smith doing
Wild Wild West.
Instead, he did turn down therole of Neo.
So, yeah, he's painting and hebuys this studio space in
Hollywood to work out of, andthen it quickly became a sacred
artist space and to this dayit's a makeshift museum of Val

(01:24:11):
Kilmer.
Among the items there are DocHolliday's socks, a Batman
figure with a Mark Twain headand coasters featuring Jim
Morrison.
All right, so that's nice.
He kind of got that.
Remember how he wanted to dothat in New Mexico?
Well, it's happening at hisspace in Hollywood, full of

(01:24:34):
coasters, yeah.
And so he toured the countrydoing meet and greets and going
to events, partly to make moneybecause he was not doing too
well after all those financialwoes, but also he enjoyed
meeting the fans.
At one point in thatdocumentary called Val, it shows

(01:24:58):
him at a Comic-Con event andhe's signing the same phrase
from Top Gun over and over I'llbe your wingman.
They have a compilation ofpeople saying can you?
write I'll be your wingman.
And then he gets so exhaustedthat he has to take a break and
he goes and throws up.

Speaker 7 (01:25:17):
I believe it Signing stuff not to whatever, it's the
best job on earth, but it doesget exhausting.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah, I mean, it really looked like it in this
documentary.
And then they wheel him back inand people keep thinking I'm
like, thanks for coming back, sohe was dedicated, thanks for
coming back, so he was dedicated.
But you could tell it wastaxing on him to still have to
go and do that.
You know, what's also sort ofsad is that his younger brother,

(01:25:47):
wesley, died and then his olderbrother, mark, he had a feud
with throughout the years andthey were estranged for a very
long time.
At one point his brother saidof Val he has no example in his
life of a good relationship hecan look to and their feud
really began after their daddied in the mid-'90s dispute

(01:26:09):
over the estate.
Mark is a psychologist also andhe doesn't vibe with the
Christian science beliefs, but Iheard that they made amends
after the cancer diagnosis.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
In 2017, Val Kilmer finally came clean During a
Reddit Ask Me Anything session.
He confirmed that he washealing from cancer, and then he
told the Hollywood Reporterthat he'd been dealing with the
illness for two years.
Yeah, the biggest non-surprise.

Speaker 7 (01:26:45):
Right, yeah, but it's up to him to tell it whenever
he wants to.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
That's true, and in 2020, he made an appearance on
Good Morning America and said Isit?

Speaker 7 (01:26:54):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
And said he was doing great.
Yeah, good Morning America.
And said Is it, is it?
And said he was doing great.

Speaker 7 (01:26:58):
Yeah, good morning America.
I'm dying of stroke cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Not so good morning.

Speaker 7 (01:27:03):
America.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Ay yi yi and that he feels a lot better than he
sounds.
That is good Very good, which Iactually don't believe.
Oh wow, I think he wassuffering.

Speaker 7 (01:27:19):
Well, of course he was suffering.
It's horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
But it shows his resilience, his tenacity.
It's such a great attitudethrough all that.
Let's watch a little clip fromthat documentary Val.

Speaker 8 (01:27:32):
I keep mentioning no, I've seen him several times.
I have to figure out how toplug in his hole.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Dang.

Speaker 7 (01:27:45):
Poor guy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
That's hard, so I don't know if you didn't
understand that.
he said he can't speak withoutplugging the hole and he goes on
to say that he has to choosebetween speaking and eating.
Well, we all do that.
He could only talk when hepushed this button on his throat
, yeah, and had a lot of troublebreathing.
And there's another clip herethat you'll appreciate, where

(01:28:11):
he's talking about religion andhis son jack is hanging out with
him in the room as he's talkingabout religion and his son Jack
is hanging out with him in theroom as he's talking about
religion.
The face of Adam.

(01:28:43):
So, he's flustered now oh Fallsover His house is so messy.

Speaker 7 (01:28:49):
Yeah, that's not funny.

Speaker 10 (01:28:52):
That's not funny.
Not funny.
I love it, not funny.
That was a joke.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Yeah, oh, my god, that is hilarious Because when
you're sick, it's very easy tofool people yes, very and make
them concerned, jeez is it apratfall?

Speaker 7 (01:29:17):
Yeah, that's Juilliard baby yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
And he still worked as much as he could.
He appeared in a movie calledPay Dirt with his daughter
Mercedes, and he had actuallyappeared in the movie Palo Alto
along with his son, jack, who isalso an actor following in his
dad's footsteps, and he did dothe voiceover for the

(01:29:43):
documentary Val in place of hisdad.
Oh nice, because there wasoriginally a rumor that this
company called Sonatic did avoice recreation using AI
technology, but that wasn'tactually featured in the
documentary.
But Val Kilmer afterwardsworked with this company to
maybe do future things using hisvoice, and so he was very

(01:30:06):
excited about that.
He said.
As human beings, the ability tocommunicate is the core of our
experience, and the side effectsfrom throat cancer have made it
difficult for others tounderstand me.
The chance to narrate my storyin a voice that feels authentic
and familiar is an incrediblyspecial gift.

Speaker 6 (01:30:24):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
A couple things he appeared in were not.
You know, they're not his bestwork.
I would say he did a lot ofstraight-to-Redbox movies in his
later years, before the cancer,Kind of like how they put Bruce
Willis to work before he wasill.

Speaker 10 (01:30:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Where it's like 20 movies in one year.
Yeah, like what.
But one of the more infamousones is called the Snowman and
his voice is completely dubbedin the movie and it's very
obvious.
So it's unsettling and it'ssupposed to dubbed in the movie
and it's very obvious.
So it's like unsettling andit's supposed to be a terrible
movie, so we should add that toour list, all right, and then he

(01:31:02):
appeared in Jay and Silent BobReboot as Silent Bob's
counterpart, as Bluntman.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Oh, hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
In the Bluntman and Chronic reboot.
And again, this is not his bestwork.
Right Kind of makes the loveguru look like Blazing Saddles.
Yeah.
You know, you know, I'm notgoing to judge.
It was nice of Kevin Smith todo that for him, because if
there was any role he could play, it was someone that doesn't
talk.
Yeah, absolutely.
So that was pretty, prettybrilliant there.

(01:31:36):
But don't worry, there's onemore blockbuster movie that has
val kilmer's name all over ittop gun maverick all about john
mccain there were rumors that hewas going to appear in it and
they turned out to be true, andthis movie was in development

(01:31:57):
for a very, very long time andit finally got released in 2022.
And in the movie they haveIceman battling cancer, which
mirrors his real life story, andlet's watch that scene between
him and Tom Cruise, the Navyneeds Maverick.

Speaker 4 (01:32:21):
The kid needs Maverick.

Speaker 8 (01:32:26):
That's why I fought for you.
That's why you're still here.

Speaker 4 (01:32:43):
Thank you, weiss, for everything.

Speaker 8 (01:32:49):
One last thing who's the better pilot?

Speaker 6 (01:32:58):
You or me.
This is a nice moment.
Let's not ruin it.

Speaker 7 (01:33:05):
Well, you can just say he was.
I mean die real soon and stuff.
He'd be like it was you buddy.
Yeah, exactly Whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
So the movie received a five-minute standing ovation
at the Cannes Film Festival.
It got rave reviews and itbecame the number one movie of
2022.

Speaker 7 (01:33:25):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
And remember it was also the number one movie of
1986.
So that's called Going Out onTop Mm-hmm.
Top Gun.
That is oh right, and thatbrings us to April Fool's Day,
2025.
I'm sure you all heard somegood jokes that day.

Speaker 7 (01:33:44):
I love April Fool's Day.
It's not like we live a foolishday every day.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
And you sort of disbelieve some of the headlines
that pop up on your phone.
Yeah, sure, well, one of themheadlines that pop up on your
phone.
Yeah, sure, well, one of themwas Val Kilmer, dead at 65.
Mm-hmm, that was no joke, hedid die.

Speaker 7 (01:34:05):
Well, I hope so, otherwise we wouldn't be
covering it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
That would be a cruel joke.

Speaker 7 (01:34:10):
That would be a cruel joke.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
A retraction here, but then again it would be the
kind of joke that maybe kilmerwould send out himself.
Yeah, based on that clip, true,there's a bit of a cut up.
Yes, he was well.
His daughter, mercedes,confirmed to the ap that he died
in his malibu home and it wasdue to pneumonia.
They didn't specify if thepneumonia was related to the

(01:34:34):
throat cancer, but I'm sure itis.

Speaker 7 (01:34:37):
Yeah, I think everything's related to the
throat cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
Yeah, exactly.
According to the AmericanThoracic Society, the side
effects of you know, the cancerprocedures, especially where the
tube is inserted in the trachea, can definitely increase the
risk of pneumonia.
The trachea can definitelyincrease the risk of pneumonia.
So that's sad.
And then there were reportsthat he had actually been
bedridden for years prior to hisdeath.

(01:35:02):
It was not a shocking death inthe sense that they all saw it
coming.
He was not doing well for avery long time.
Then there's this weird reportthat on the same day he died,
that he was supposed to appearat a beverly hills film festival
.
Um, I guess it was a tribute tothe actor michael madsen, and

(01:35:23):
that his performance, or, excuseme, his appearance, had been
confirmed the weekend before.
Okay, but then, um, they saidthat around the same time that
the story hit, the news that hewouldn't be appearing at the
festival, the reports of hisdeath came in.

Speaker 10 (01:35:38):
Yeah, it was his last joke.
He's like of course I'll bethere.

Speaker 7 (01:35:41):
Just kidding nerds.

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
No way yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:45):
It was Twain that said that thing about reports of
my death have been highlyexaggerated, right Well.
This was not exaggerated, no,no, exaggerated, right Well,
this was not exaggerated.
Tom Cruise honored his Top Gunco-star.
Afterwards he was appearing atthe CinemaCon event and he said

(01:36:06):
quote I can't tell you how muchI admire his work, how grateful
and honored I was when he joinedTop Gun and came back later for
Top Gun Maverick.
I think it would be really niceif we could just have a moment
together, because he lovedmovies and he gave a lot to all
of us.
Just think about all thewonderful times that we had with
him.
And he said I wish you well onyour next journey.

(01:36:29):
And in the documentary, valKilmer said he has no regrets,
quote I have behaved poorly, Ihave behaved bravely, I have
behaved bizarrely to some.
I deny none of this and have noregrets, because I have lost
and found parts of myself that Inever knew existed, and I am

(01:36:52):
blessed.
Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:36:56):
RIP kilmer yeah what a life 65 packed a lot into it
yeah, that brings us to finalthoughts wow, what an incredible
life.

Speaker 10 (01:37:11):
He did like he said.
He did uh admit to, you know,being a pain in the ass for a
little bit, but it was DannyTrejo that said that he wasn't a
pain in the ass.
Really.
He wanted good work to be done.

Speaker 7 (01:37:25):
He was a perfectionist.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Yes, and Michael Douglas loved working with him.
Mira Sorvino, the list goes on.
Tom Cruise, obviously, yeah,yep.

Speaker 7 (01:37:33):
American hero Val Kilmer.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
And I actually have a theory about his disdain for
movie directors.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
I think I'm correct here.
His brother, wesley, was aprodigy making great short films
at the ranch, and they both haddreams together that were
intertwined, where Wesley wasgoing to become a great film
director and Val Kilmer a greatactor.
Well, wesley's dreams were cutshort in 1977, when he was only

(01:38:08):
15 years old.
So for the rest of his life ValKilmer resented some of the
directors that he had to workwith.
It's possible.

Speaker 7 (01:38:18):
Because that should have been Wesley and they
weren't as good as his youngerbrother.

Speaker 10 (01:38:23):
They weren't as good .
Wow, alright, what a theory.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
RIP Val Kilmer, absolutely.

Speaker 10 (01:38:31):
Do you hear that You've got mail?
We got a mail bag, whoa.
Oh my goodness, can you believeit?

Speaker 7 (01:38:41):
I can yes.

Speaker 10 (01:38:44):
In the same spot, every show.

Speaker 7 (01:38:47):
At the end there.

Speaker 10 (01:38:50):
Let's see, as seen by Dave said, amazing episode,
guys, regarding the Kimbo Sliceepisode.
Kimbo Slice, my brother-in-lawused to bounce at an Orange
County club and Tank Abbott camein one time.
He almost got killed by Tankwhen he touched Tank's girl
during a fight and pulled heroff another girl.

Speaker 7 (01:39:06):
Jeez Tank Abbott, yeah, jeez Dating chicks just
like himself.

Speaker 10 (01:39:11):
Someone just wanted to remind you.
Jesse Rodriguez wanted toremind you that the show you
were asking that you were on wasParanormal, Caught on Camera.

Speaker 7 (01:39:17):
Oh, that's my yeah, I was on that show.
That's the show I was on.

Speaker 10 (01:39:22):
Runkle Doug said this is my new favorite show.
And Where's the Bear said spoton, as usual.
So we appreciate it guys.

Speaker 7 (01:39:29):
Thank you all so much and thanks so much for
supporting the shows.
If you want to watch live, youcan go to patreoncom slash
diebud.
Make sure to check out OK Bud.
Four episodes a week giving youall the news you need to know
to make your officeuncomfortable and again, hail
yourself and until next week.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
Don't go dying on us.

Speaker 6 (01:39:51):
Bye, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
You have just heard a true Hollywood murder mystery.

Speaker 8 (01:39:59):
I have never seen anything like this before the
movies, Broadway, music,television, all of it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:05):
A place that manufactures nightmares.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
Okay, everybody, that's a wrap.

Speaker 8 (01:40:10):
Good night.
Please drive home carefully andcome back again soon.

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Iceman to Ashes: The Val Kilmer Story (Episode 160)

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