Murder in Plain Sight: When Killer Parents Weaponize the Media (Episode 175)

They begged for help. They cried on camera. They told stories of kidnappers and faceless strangers. And the world believed them. But behind the tears was a darker truth—parents who murdered their own children, then turned their grief into theater for the cameras.

In this episode, we uncover four of the most shocking cases where killers attempted to weaponize the media to hide their crimes: Jake and Rebecca Haro in California, Diane Downs in Oregon, Charles Stuart in Boston, and Chris Watts in Colorado.

Each story reveals how easily the performance of grief can sway public opinion—and how devastating the fallout can be when lies unravel in plain sight.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Ballet tu Francais hablas espanol para le italiano.
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Start speaking with Babel today.Get up to 55% off your Babel
subscription right now at babel.com/wandering spelled
babbel.com/wandering. Rules and restrictions may
apply. Live from Los Angeles. 911 What

(00:53):
is your emergency? You're in Hollywood now. 2.
Counts of murder, injury and death.
Oh my God, Shocking new details.That has stunned the
entertainment world. This makes me a little nervous.
The hair stood up on my arms just like in the movies.
What do you call this thing anyway?
Death. Entertainment.

(01:14):
Greetings Dead O Universe, how the heck are you?
My name is Kyle Plouffe. I'm Jerry Aquino.
And I am Ben Kissel, today's episode.
Oh my Lord. Can't wait to get into some
blood and guts. Murder in plain sight.
Yes, we are recapping a whole series of events where parents
committed family crimes and usedthe media to weaponize the

(01:36):
grief. That ain't right.
Oh, so like they're using the media to like be like, oh, feel
bad for us. We're like a victim, even though
they totally were the murderer. Yes.
And in hindsight, it's very apparent we're gonna watch a
bunch of videos of the interviews and stuff like that.
Oh my God, let's fuck. Everybody buckle in and let's go
to earlier this month. Oh, shoot.
OK, jumping. Right in.

(02:17):
They begged for help, They criedon camera.
They told stories of kidnappers,strangers and violent intruders,
and the world believed them. But behind the tears was
something darker. Parents who killed their
children then use the media to hide their crimes.
This is the story of parents whoweaponized grief and the media
that helped them do it. Damn.
The media is also complicit. Yeah, if it bleeds, it leads.

(02:40):
It does so. Oh, because they're just kind of
like, because they, they, they're going after all these
stories. They want the stories to be
filled with emotion. Yes, exactly.
And they're like. With any luck, the parents did
it. This is gold.
Yeah, so on the morning of August 14th, which is just
literally 2 weeks ago, wow, 2025police received a desperate
report in Yucaipa, CA. It's about an hour and a half

(03:03):
away from us, I think. Yucaipa, Yucaipa.
All right, don't call me that again.
A mother claimed her seven monthold son had been snatched from
her in a parking lot at the Big 5 in Yucaipa, OK.
She told officers that she had been blindsided while changing
him In the back seat of her car,a stranger walked up.
She didn't know what he looked like, she didn't know who he

(03:24):
was, but he said Hola. Oh my God, so insinuating.
Maybe someone of a different ethnicity?
Yeah, yeah. So pretty much what she said is
I was changing my diaper, his diaper in the backseat of the
car and then some guy whispered Hola and I turned around after
he punched me in the back of thehead which caused a black eye on
the front of my head. Oh, OK.

(03:45):
Interesting. And then he took off with her
baby. That is so ridiculous.
No Spanish person approaches anyone by saying Hola.
Hola No, that's what Peggy Hill says.
But she wants to be Spanish. Exactly.
Hola, I don't think a kidnapper's taking a baby mid
change. I know once they see that
they're like, oh God, that's right, I forgot I was going to

(04:06):
have to change it if I take it. Yeah, it'd be.
Extra man, No thank you. No way.
The child's name was Emmanuel Harrow.
Television crews rushed to the scene.
His parents, Jake and Rebecca Harrow, appeared in front of the
cameras, tearfully begging for their parent, their baby's, safe
return. They described an ambush by a
faceless Latino man. Oh my God.
And they started the they started the entire press

(04:28):
conference with and scene. Yeah.
What's my motivation? Oh, not going to prison for the
rest of my life. Your child's dead.
Yeah, that's right. You did it.
But you don't want to go to prison for life.
Let's go. Yeah.
They warned the community that there was a dangerous predator
on the loose. So that's a a thing that we're
going to see a lot of the times.Is that like, and it could

(04:49):
happen to you too. So everybody be vigilant.
Everyone needs to be scared. Look everywhere else except for
right into the camera at me. I am so scared.
You should be scared too. I was the one that did it, but
you should be scared. But be scared, yeah?
Just in case. Just in case.
You never know, there could be someone crazy like me running
around. So there's only, like I said,
two weeks worth of news reports and this is the first one and

(05:12):
we'll show it here for the viewers watching on YouTube.
It's just Mexican alert Mexican on the street. 7 month old boy
reported missing in Yucaipa. The boy's mother claiming he was
taken from a Yucaipa parking lot.
Yeah, Inland Empire Bureau ChiefRob McMillan just spoke to the
family and he is live in Yucaipawith the latest.

(05:33):
Rob, well, not only is this family desperate to find out
what happened out here, but so are detectives with the San
Bernardino County Sheriff's Department who have returned to
the scene where a 7 month old baby boy was reportedly
kidnapped right out of this big 5 parking lot.
Let's bring up his picture rightnow.
This is 7 month old Emmanuel Harrow, one of five children in

(05:57):
this family from Cabazon reportedly kidnapped last night
in Yucaipa. Now, his mom told me that they
were here last night at a nearbyfootball stadium in Yucaipa with
the other kids playing youth football, and she had to run
down here to Big 5 to buy some equipment for her stepson,
specifically a mouth guard when she got.
You know what? There's always bullshit when

(06:17):
they're like coming up with, youknow.
Hyper specific. Details I needed a mouth guard
and then I did notice that he did need a change before I went
in with if it was just pissed, people would just run in with
their kid and get the mouth guard and get the hell out of
there. Also with the mouth guard, you
can't just buy it and put it right in.
You got to boil it and then you bite it.
It has to fit with your denture.Yeah, it's, oh, real.
Yeah, it's a horn process. You have to do oh so you can

(06:39):
mold it to yourself. Yes.
I didn't know that. Yeah, so we'll we'll hear from
the mother here too. Under the parking lot, she says
that's when she noticed her seven months old's diaper needed
to be changed. So she says she got out of her
truck, went around to the back and laid him down on the seat to
change his diaper when she was attacked from behind.

(07:00):
Now, we did speak with her a short time ago about what she
says happened here in this parking lot last night right
around sunset. Now, people watching, I want you
to look at her face. She is not making any eye
contact and the people listeningyou're going to think that she
tears are streaming down her face.
I want you to notice that there's something suspiciously
absent from her actual body. Oh, let's see, I got him out of

(07:25):
the car seat and I laid him downand so I could get his diapers
ready. And somebody said, hold on,
That's all I remember. And I, I saw white and you hear
me son, I, I fell on the floor and I, and I said as I got up, I
couldn't find my son. I checked it all the around my

(07:47):
truck and I ran into Big 5 and Iasked the lady if she saw a baby
or someone with a baby. She said no.
He was a happy boy. He smiled.
Mackenzie loved to kiss him. And notice she said he was.
Interesting. Me and Kaylena watch this.

(08:08):
The first day it happened, we were like, this woman is full of
fucking shit, right? Talking about him in the past
tense. And it's a very common thing
when parents are talking about their kids and they seem very
upset. Oh my God, something happened.
But there's no tears coming out of their eyes.
But they're talking like they have snot bubbles.
And she left out the part where she was like, have you seen my
son? And they're like, no.
And then she's like, what aisle are your mouth guards in?

(08:30):
Right, right. She did get them off guard.
Very important, she. Said that she said another child
really liked kissing him. Yeah, loved kissing.
Loved kissing him. Like, you didn't like kissing
him very much, did you? Yeah, and as you can notice if
you're looking at the video, thebaby does appear to be disabled,
which he was, and that is for reasons that we will discuss in
A Hero. Wow, yeah, I thought, I thought,

(08:52):
I thought he looked a little disabled.
She just looks plain stupid. And she's like, like there's no
color in her face. You know when your when your
face gets all red, like from like how much you're crying and
how much you can't breathe? She's clearly huffing and
puffing on purpose and it's not changing the color in her face
at all. Yeah, and it's very
counterintuitive because you don't want to watch something
like this and be like, you're a fucking full of shit, right?

(09:15):
But all of the warning signs were there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think she rehearsed it?
It seems like she kind of rehearsed, like the how would
you react? You have to breathe.
You have to be all panicky. But then it didn't really work.
Not ready for prime time? No, definitely not.
And not making eye contact with any of the reporters.
The. And her eyes were straight up
closed most of the. Time She was staring straight
down at her shoes and didn't want even to be there.

(09:37):
You can tell. Yeah.
So vigils while he was missing, they started springing up
everywhere. Flyers with Emmanuel's photo
were printed and distributed. Hashtags trended on social
media. Strangers offered donations to
help the family. Also, you know what, I think we
need to start looking at big flyer companies.
How much money do they make withthese missing children Flyers?

(09:58):
Every time a missing child goes,oh hey honey, get in another
busy Tuesday here in Uganda. Where is it?
Yukaipi, yeah. Yukaipa.
Yukaipa Yeah, well, don't you think it's just like a printing
company? Could be it's another victory
for big poster board. Big poster board, the thank you
come. We fight it every day.
Unless they advertise on our show, in which case we love that

(10:20):
company. Right, right.
So news anchors repeated the story as fact.
A baby was kidnapped, a mother was assaulted and a family
shattered. But behind the cameras,
investigators were already troubled.
And they didn't really let us know they were.
The news was just presenting it,like I said, as fact.
The whole time, investigators were like, there's something
wrong here. Yeah.

(10:41):
Security footage from the parking lot showed no such
attacker. In fact they, I I believe, knew
somehow that there was no cameradirected at them.
So when they went and looked. They were like, this is the
perfect parking lot for this crime.
Yes, exactly, but the the footage that they did have
didn't show anyone like looking and being like oh shit, what's
going on over there 'cause that could happen.

(11:02):
That's very true. But yeah, no evidence of a
carjacking, no man matching the description.
Rebecca's injuries appeared superficial, inconsistent with
her version of events. Like I said, she said she got
attacked from behind and had a a1 1/2 black eyes.
Yeah. Like how does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah.
Is that even? I don't think that's possible.
No, if you get like a major blowto the back of your head, like

(11:23):
this happened in the Karen Reed trial when John fell on the
ground and cracked his head, youcan get like raccoon eyes from
that. OK, But those it was definitely
clear she had been slapped or punched in the face, right?
It was there footage of her doing that to herself like Jim
Carrey and Liar Liar. Or that was her husband.
Mark Wahlberg in fear. Yeah, yeah.

(11:44):
The timeline Jake and Rebecca gave shifted with, you know,
each interview they were giving.Within days, the entire story
unravelled. Detectives determined Emanuel
had likely been killed days earlier.
Oh my God. The kidnapping was a cover up
and the people pleading for a safe return were not victims at
all, they were suspects. What a stupid fucking cover.

(12:04):
Up So even at these vigils, theynever showed up to any of the
vigils 'cause they fucking knew.And they even said that they
would give money for his safe return, knowing that they would
never have to pay it. Right, right.
Yeah. They didn't even, you know what
terrible acting. They didn't even go to the
visuals. They got at least gone.
Right, exactly they've. Been leading, you know, like

(12:25):
search squads for. Them there were people
searching. They did not help in the search
at all. Wow, yeah, this is so, so
plainly obvious. It would be interesting to get
into the psyche of them as a couple because I guess they were
like, we're together. Did it bring them together for a
week? Be like, yeah, it's you and me.
One's going to find out. It's just fine.
I don't know. I think they're going to find

(12:46):
out. Be positive.
I told you. Like, there's a bunch.
Stay strong. Stay strong.
Yeah. Just so bizarre.
But also knowing, like, at some point people are going to find
out. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, they definitely felt a kindred.
You know, they had a kindred experience because they even had
to cover up before it came out that Jay Caro, the dad, had
previously been arrested and served time for child

(13:09):
endangerment and child cruelty for his first child.
Who has cerebral palsy that was actually inflicted after they
were born, which is very rare. What?
Beat them so bad that they endedup getting cerebral palsy after
they were born. They were born perfectly fine.
That's crazy and I know. Such a piece of shit there.
Are so many people who want children and can't have them and

(13:29):
then these pieces of trash get them?
It's, it's, it's just horrible. Right.
And people are like, oh, it mustbe hard, you know, to raise
disabled children. And it totally is.
But they inflicted those injuries on the kids, right?
It's brutal. They could have just given him
up for adoption and lived their fucking lives.
And he has put five kids the thethe missing 1 is.
He's got a couple. He's got a couple of them, OK.

(13:52):
On August 17th, Jake and RebeccaHaro were arrested and charged
with murder and filing a false police report.
Mm hmm. It's always that second one
where it's like, alright, I mean, we, I technically filed a
false police report against my brother when I was growing up
'cause he escaped and he ran outin front of me and I was like, I
was almost kidnapped. And then he got in trouble
'cause he left me alone. Even though, no, oh, that's

(14:14):
always like murder. And also they kind of lied to us
a little bit. Yeah.
And I don't like that part at all.
So tack that on. And on top of that they tried to
get one one over me. Over me?
I don't think so. I.
Got you pal. Yeah, the revelations were
devastating. Not only had they killed their
baby, but they had turned his death into theater.
They constructed a story that preyed on fear, prejudice and

(14:34):
sympathy, assuming the cameras would shield them from
suspicion. And their whiteness.
Yeah. Well, there.
Ola. Ola they're they're not.
I don't believe she's white. Jake is not.
But no matter what, they were trying to play on the idea of a
of a dangerous brown man out there.
Yeah, yeah. And I not to be stereotypical,

(14:57):
but I think Latinos have their own children.
I don't think I don't think theyneed to be.
Want any of your kids? They are full.
Every time we look at each other, we pop another one out.
We can't fucking stand any of them, but they're all here,
yeah. It's beautiful.
Yeah, no, we don't need any extra kids.
There's no, there's no room. Yeah, it's so brutal.

(15:18):
Manual endured almost his entireshort life in danger, they say.
They said he was seven months old, but they really found out
he ended up being like 9 or 10 months old, so there was just
weird lies that they were comingup with.
That's weird. They would reverse like super
annoying parents where it's likemy baby is one month and four
days and five hours old. Oh.
God, they reversed it. Every hour matters at that stage

(15:39):
of development. It kind of does, I guess.
It does. It's all actually true, it's
just really annoying to hear constantly, right?
Yeah, yeah. Jake, like I said, he had a
prior conviction for child abusein 2018.
He was convicted in 2023 when his daughter from a different
relationship was left permanently disabled by severe
injuries. How was he out?
Oh, so this is. Come on now is.

(16:01):
This fucking guy. He actually he did avoid prison,
he served probation instead. Which is another reason why if
this was taken care of in the 1st place and done the right
way, he would have never been able to a have a manual and B
take his life away from him. Well, we're just gonna give him
probation 'cause he didn't lie to us about it.
Yeah. Well, he told the truth that
that's what matters. Yeah.
Hmm, buddy, you're going to be in a lot more trouble if you

(16:22):
don't tell us the truth right now.
Oh, I love that when I watch my prison or when I watch the
interrogation, we're just here to help.
Just tell the truth. What's your story?
We can only help you if you're honest with us, yeah.
Since then, Rebecca and they've both been separated and put into
different holding cells and stuff like that.
So they're being interviewed separately.
And Jake actually has a lawyer from that previous case who's

(16:45):
doing this pro bono for him. Pro bono.
I think he's like, oh, I'll, I'll represent the worst of the
worst and I'm going to get some Free Press out of.
It he was like, yeah, I hate babies.
Seriously. And so she doesn't have a
lawyer. He does.
And they said, the lawyer said that he's doing that on purpose
because if he represents them both, then they no longer have
like, a wedding, a wedding immunity, maternal, Yeah,

(17:08):
whatever that immunity is, beingmarried, married.
Yeah. So they can just fucking spousal
spousal immunity. Spousal immunity?
Like what? Like what?
Like they can't testify against each other.
Exactly. Yeah, you don't legally have to
testify against your spouse. You can be like, no, I sucked
that Dick for too long. The law says I don't have to say
anything about them. Yeah, that's true.
That's so true. And I guess you could always

(17:29):
plead. The least you can do for Oh
yeah, all of the tea bags she got.
That would have saved this wholemess.
Actually it would have. So what they did last week or
the week before, they ended up combing through the entire
apartment and their car and theyfound blood all over the
apartment. Obviously, no.
And so when Jake went to jail, he ended up they they called it,

(17:52):
it was a Perkins operation. So what a Perkins thing is, it's
like they send an informant intoyour cell and pretend like
they're a cellmate and they get you to talk.
So he ended up telling that guy that he accidentally rolled over
on the baby while sleeping and freaked out and threw him in the
trash. He doesn't know where he is.
Oh my God, yeah. Which is what if it was a

(18:13):
mistake? And it's like, I'm sorry, I
fucking that happens that there have been parents who don't get
in trouble for that. It's as awful as it is.
But to just be like, I'm just going to throw him in the
dumpster now. Throw him out, he could be
anywhere. That's insane.
So do the person with the doing.I just think of Perkins, the
restaurant by the way, but it's a very Midwest thing.
So I don't think you guys get the reference that is no.

(18:35):
But in Washington, I've been there.
It's. Fantastic.
It's a family. It's a family diner.
Why do you have to say like it'sFamily Diner?
Because that's that's why you wouldn't find yourself in there
because family. It's only in the Midwest.
Oh, yeah. And you're not a Midwesterner,
right? Does the person who is going to
get and solicit the thing, the Perkins, whatever statement, is
he a criminal or is that like anundercover cop going there for

(18:57):
the week? They said it could be either one
of them in the The Sheriff's Office said they'd take no
accountability for that investigation so they're not a
part of it. So I'm guessing it was like an
actual informant. Gotcha.
Was in jail at the time. Because if he's confessing that
kind of shit to another prisoner, they'll beat the shit
out of him. Yes.
Well, sometimes. Not like abusers.
Sometimes cell mates will like, you know, like drop the dime and

(19:19):
like get this information out sothat they can get less time,
right? That's true too.
Yeah. So that's as far as we know
right now, the the updates are coming in as as fast as they
can, but there's really not muchmore than they ended up taking
him out to the side of the highway in Yucaipa and say, you
know, where did you ditch his body?
Because then he changed the story again, being like, OK, I

(19:40):
did just like throw him in the woods.
Oh my gosh. Helicopter footage of him
walking around in an orange jumpsuit, like pointing to
different places where the baby might be but and cadaver dogs
didn't find anything so they think he's still lying.
So he just wanted to get out of jail for the day, Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah, a little field trip.
Oh my God, so we don't even havea body yet?
We don't have a body yet, but wedo have charges and both of

(20:01):
these people are fucked. There's blood in the house that
they didn't clean up. They're just horrific people
that immediately went to the news as quick as possible and
some people fell for it. Me and Kaylee, we watched it
with no fucking way. Really.
Like no, that probably is not what happened.
Yeah, you were smart to catch that was.
I didn't catch that was. Yeah, I didn't catch that
either. Yeah, the detective.

(20:23):
Creepy man. Kyle Tola, the detective
Detective. Tola.
There it is. Let's go.
Oh, so I mean, as sad as this case is, this is not the first
time it's happened. It won't be the last.
We have quite the list here. There's This one starts in 1983
with a woman by the name of Diane Downs.

(20:45):
This is. A little older.
Yes, on May 19th, 1983, a blood spattered red Nissan Pulser
rolled into an emergency entrance of the Mackenzie
Williamette Hospital in Springfield.
OR behind the wheel was Dianne Downs.
Her left forearm would be wounded by gunfire.
And that's not the last time this is going to happen.
A lot of the people end up injuring them.

(21:06):
Well, actually, yeah. It started with a manual too.
She injured herself and then said it was somebody else.
So she was shot in the arm. Her three children sat beside
her. Seven-year old Cheryl fatally
shot, 8 year old Christy critically wounded, and
three-year old Danny paralyzed by a bullet to the back.
Oh my God. What the hell happened?
Well Diane's explanation of things was just awful.

(21:29):
She told police that the in the media that a bushy haired
stranger had flagged her down ona rural Rd.
Bushy haired. Yeah, like like someone with a
head full of pubes. Curly hair possibly making a
racial reference without saying it, right.
Right, of course. Gotcha.
I was thinking Sasquatch and then I was thinking curly haired

(21:51):
pube ripped it but OK. Yeah, yeah.
When I heard Bush I just, I justthink of like pubes, like on a
head. Makes sense.
Got you. Yeah, So what she said is that
she's driving down this rural Rd. with, you know, no lights
there in the middle of the woods.
And this guy waves her downs like get out of the car.
And she she said that she got out of the car with her three
kids instead of driving around him and was like, let's talk

(22:13):
about this. What?
What are we actually doing here?That's not a thing at all.
And he, he demanded her car. She was like, well, I can't give
you my car. And then he's like, well, then
you're all fucking dead. And he shot them all.
Sir, that's a pulser. I don't think I'm gonna be
giving you that car. You'll have to kill my children
instead. Yeah, seriously, what the fuck?
Also, it's the 80s. You can't.
We learned from the 70s already.It's the 80s.

(22:33):
You don't stop for anybody. Hell no.
That's a good point, yeah. There was a lot of serial
killers out there already doing their thing and people were on
highway. That's right, no picking up
hitchhikers. Shit, can't do it.
Definitely not going out of the car and leaving your kids in and
negotiating the the release of your vehicle to this person,
Yeah. Like how did you get out here?

(22:54):
Where is your car? It's true going on.
How long did it take you to get here?
Yeah, we've been driving for like an hour.
I ran for 45 miles in the wrong direction.
Can you believe? That weird.
Yeah, I'm an idiot. Local news crews swarmed the
hospital. Headlines called it Mother
ambushed children shot by stranger.
Wow. It's not just a clever headline,
it's exactly what we think happened.

(23:15):
Literally exactly what it is. Yeah, well, children shot by
someone that's definitely not well.
Also good news, the pulser unharmed.
Thank God for. That thank God.
Reporters framed Diane's appearance, holding her wounded
arm, voice shaky, hair Immaculate as the image of a
woman who had survived unspeakable tragedy.
I mean, hair Immaculate, why didn't they have to?

(23:38):
She looked. She was shaken, but her eyebrows
were completely done. Just last AT just last question,
where do you get your nails done?
Yeah, I love that. Looks great.
Honestly, and throughout everything that I just went
through, not one lash fell off. These aren't even mine.
They're falsies. Yeah, maybe it's Maybelline.
Maybe I'm a murderer. Maybe.
But again, as the hours passed, investigators grew unsettled.

(24:01):
Dianes composure seemed rehearsed and just way too calm
her her mannerisms, late smiles,odd laughter.
Oh God, I want to see it. I want to see it.
Do we have it? We sure do.
Yes, it's always when they have a weird laugh.
It's my favorite. It's the mask comes off for a
second. Oh.
My God. It's like the was, it's like the
the little slip going the wrong.Way right?

(24:23):
Reporters who covered her interviews described how she
talked a lot. Quote as if she thought she.
As if she thought if she kept talking you would believe her.
Yeah, yeah. Like everyone in LA.
Yeah. Oh my God, I've done that.
Yeah. I'm not in Lai feel like I've
done that when I was like a kid,of course.
And you're like, you're like nervous maybe like you're giving

(24:43):
like some kind of a like a stupid speech in school that you
didn't prepare for, you didn't do your homework.
And you're like, I'm just gonna keep talking in circles.
Maybe they're gonna believe thatI'm actually fucking saying
something and no one actually buys it.
They're just like, let's see howlong she gets.
She stays up there for. Yeah, this is actually kind of
fun. Let her cook.
Yeah, pretty much. Now, even though little Christy,
lying there in a hospital bed, couldn't speak, the nurses noted

(25:06):
that every time Diane Downs cameinto the room, her vitals
spiked, went off the chart insane when she would sense her
mother was in the room, her mother, the.
Children were never back in Diane's custody.
The state of Oregon removed themand they were placed in foster
care. This is an Eyewitness News

(25:27):
special report. In her own words, Elizabeth
Diane Downs. Good evening.
I'm Anne Bradley. When we got to talk to her, they
said she could bring her. Lawyer to the interview that we
wanted to do, she showed up by herself and I said, gotcha.
Diane Jagger, you really helped Diane Downs dig around.

(25:47):
Yeah. It's never good when they're
like, can we just talk to you about this one thing that
happened? You're like, can I bring my
lawyer? Yeah.
They're like. Gotcha, gotcha.
When this man shot my daughter, my first reaction was to snap
back to my childhood, to the pain that had happened to me
back then. My marriage, my entrapment by
society. This man was bigger than me.

(26:08):
He. Was entrapment by society?
Because he had a gun. And I stood there and I looked
at Christy reaching and the blood that just kept gushing out
of her mouth. She's laugh, smiling.
What do you do? She used the word I or me so
many times in that interview, you'd never know.
Her three children have been shot.

(26:31):
Everybody says you sure were lucky.
Well, I don't feel very lucky. I couldn't tie my damn shoes for
about two months. It's.
Very painful. It is still painful.
The scar is going to be there forever.
I'm going to remember that nightfor the rest of my life, whether
I want to or not. I don't think I was very lucky.
I think my kids were lucky. If I had been shot the way they
were, we all would have died. Her kids are lucky.

(26:53):
A child is dead. Two children are grievously
hurt, and the kids are lucky. It's extraordinary.
She can work things out in her mind so that they work for her.
She wrapped so many layers of lies around her that she didn't
know herself anymore. What was the truth?
The more she talked, the better.Diane Downs had a penchant for

(27:16):
wanting the publicity to talk, and the more she did so, the
tighter the noose around her neck became.
Thank God. So let's say in that first
interview, she kind of looks like Princess Diana.
Yes. Like a really really like ugly
teen. Like a child murderer version of
Princess Diana. Dude that is so crazy.

(27:37):
She was literally sitting there being like, not usually when
parents lose a child, it's like such a profound pain and like
they're always talking about like, oh, you don't want to know
the pain of losing a child. This is not a parent doesn't
want to outlive their children, right?
This is the worst fucking thing that could happen.
She was like, are you kidding? Look at the scar I got on my
elbow. This scar is not going to go

(27:59):
away for months. Ow, nowhere.
Nothing about the kids. Right.
I couldn't tie my shoe for two whole months.
Could you believe it? I had to wear Velcro.
And do you fucking have any ideahow embarrassment mean Velcro?
Right? I'm an adult woman.
I'm trying to get laid out here in the streets.
Women still could get laid with Velcro shoes on.
Oh of. Course, you could also wear
heels. Velcro tank tops.

(28:22):
Yeah, why not? Just got an idea.
I love that. So the evidence deep in the
suspicion. There were no footprints at the
scene, no gun found, my God. And forensic experts found no
spatter pattern consistent with her story, although Diane
initially denied owning a 22 caliber handgun.
Relatives. Her whole family was like she's
got a fucking 22 that scumbag. Oh my God.

(28:44):
Yeah, Which good. She had purchased one in Arizona
and spent cartridges from a weapon with similar extractor
marks were later found in her home.
All right, there you go. Four days later, authorities
discovered Diane's secret Diaries.
And this is the most fucking annoying part because the reason
she did this was for a man. Of course.

(29:06):
She was dating a guy who didn't like kids.
Oh my God, I think I have heard of this story.
She's like, oh, I can kill him for you.
Right. Well.
That'd just be fantastic. I've always wanted to marry a
triple murderer. It'd be great.
Yeah, if you could just get rid of that offspring.
They revealed obsession with a married Co worker, Robert
Knickerbocker, who had made clear he didn't want children.

(29:26):
Prosecutors argued Diane viewed her children as impediments.
My God, you know they're alreadybe alive, is something I would
tell him. Yeah, I'd be like, there's
really nothing I can do. Not it's.
I already had them. They're like at the house.
Yeah. Like what am I gonna?
I don't know what you want to hang out.
I would just say the deals off and let's continue to do anal at
lunch but we can't move on past that, sorry.

(29:48):
Sorry, yeah, really bothered by this whole my kids actually
exist thing, right? It's like the one thing you
can't complain about when you start, when you start dating a
parent, right? They already have the kid.
It's either you just don't date parents, right?
Or you or you don't go up to theparent.
We're like, I kind of like you, but if you could shave off some
of those kids, I think I could really make this work.

(30:09):
Yep, kind of a deal. Breaker.
Yeah, one of her children, Christy, the only survivor able
to speak after months of therapy, took to the stand.
When asked who shot her, she simply said my mom.
That's so fucked. Yeah.
Yeah. Was she paralyzed or was she
able to recover fully? She was able to recover fully,
thank God Danny was paralyzed. Yeah, it'll give you some mommy

(30:31):
issues, a little bit of trauma. Just.
A little bit, a little bit. Can you even look at a Nissan
again? Absolutely not.
Yeah, no. So how did she get the gut She
shot herself in the? Just in the arm she just boom
close range. God, that's another level of
psychotic though. So fucking crazy.
Yeah, that sounds terrifying. Yeah, 'cause it sounds like, oh,

(30:52):
you just shot yourself in the arm, but you're risking hitting,
hitting one of the arteries in your arm.
If you shoot yourself in the leg, you're risking, you know,
Yeah, one of the arteries that they're everywhere.
You know what? Easy it is to wake up and like
not do any of that every day I wake up and I was like, not
gonna shoot myself in the arm today.
Yeah. Killed 3 kids.
Yeah. Yeah.
It really takes takes a lot. She's very extra.
I'm gonna say she's extra. So much.

(31:12):
Dare I say yes? The other gal was just like he
said Ola, and this bitch is likeshot myself in the fucking arm.
Yeah seriously. Anyway.
This is Yeah, No, this is a lot of, I feel like this.
She's like literally a psychopath.
Yep. There's a lot of things wrong
because there's just, there's this like human condition to
like want to protect yourself and like go against the instinct

(31:33):
of right, killing yourself. And like, people that are said
to like, actually like go through with these kinds of
things, It's like there's like, there's seriously something
wrong in the wiring of their brain.
Yeah, also when she smiled when she was like, and then my then
my daughter girl love blood. And then she was like it's kind
of lol. Yeah, that's kind of one of the
rawful moments, but. She was like gushing blood.
It was everywhere so. So gross.

(31:55):
That was a really weird. I wonder if she went back to the
guy and being like, so we can doit.
And he's like, wait, what? You know I'm fucking married,
right #1? It just said that because I
thought it would make you go away.
I didn't think you'd actually gokill your fucking kids.
Oh, it'd be the best if he was OK with that.
But he's like, I don't date women with like, bullet scars.
I'm sorry, you actually you can't tie your shoes.

(32:17):
Yeah. Ohh that's my deal breaker.
Sorry, arm scars kind of a turn off.
Gross and. My ick.
With that single statement from her daughter, Dianes narrative
unraveled. In June 1984, she was convicted,
thank God, of murder, attempted murder and criminal assault and
sentenced to life plus 50 years.Where exactly did she shoot her

(32:39):
kids? That was in Oregon I believe.
No, I'm saying like we're like in their bodies.
Like, did she do it? She like, she took them outside
of the car and then like. No, she shot them in the car.
Yeah. In the car, in their bodies, one
of them. In the head, yeah.
Jesus, what an idiot. Yeah, an idiot indeed.
Yeah, and a bizarre twist. Diane arrived at trial pregnant,
claiming I got pregnant because I missed my kids.

(32:59):
Children are so easy to conceive.
What? Oh fuck.
Oh. My Oh my God, that's.
Who got OK, Weird. Like, OK, it's a bit of a double
standard. I'm just gonna say who the fuck
got her pregnant? Yeah, Who?
Who banged her to the point where she became pregnant once
again? I don't.
Know Knickerbocker, man, he did it.
I don't know. Oh my God, maybe that guy is in

(33:21):
way over his head. He has no idea.
Hopefully. So gross.
Hopefully it was just, you know,like some like one tooth, like
gas station attendant. Yeah, like, well, I just, you
know, I'm taking what I can get.Sure, sure, that's fine, I can
put a baby in there no problem there.
You want to fill it up on both the tank and your vagina.
OK fantastic. 20 bucks for both.A2 Fer 2 Fer call.
That here A2 Fer. Yeah, so Down's two surviving

(33:44):
children eventually went to livewith the lead prosecutor on our
case. And Hughie, he and his wife
Joanne adopted them in 1986. So that is pretty fucking crazy.
The guy who is putting you in prison is like, I'll take your
fucking kids you piece of shit. Wow, interesting.
Shit, for real? Yeah.
Well, what the fuck? Hopefully they had a good, I
mean, hopefully they were well, whatever I.

(34:05):
Mean that family end up. How did that family even stay
together? So go out with some.
Some lady killed her kids. Why?
Oh, because you said you didn't want kids with her.
Yeah. What?
And she stayed with him. And then on top of that, they're
like, you know what? Let's rescue these kids.
These kids seem like they need abetter life.
Yeah, dude. I mean they definitely do.
Like that woman was a psychopath.

(34:27):
Yeah, yeah. So Downs became pregnant with a
sixth child, gave birth to a girl whom she named Amy
Elizabeth. A month after a 1984 trial, 10
days before Down sentencing, Amywas seized by the state of
Oregon. Good and adopted by Chris and
Jackie Babcock, who subsequentlyrenamed her Rebecca Babcock.
All. Right.
Wow. As an adult, Rebecca appeared on
the Oprah Winfrey Show in AB CS 2020 where she discussed how she

(34:50):
felt about her biological mother, which I'm sure is not
great. Probably not great, do we?
Have that clip. I think it would just be like,
it wasn't fun. I didn't like her.
She was real mean. She shot all my siblings.
You tried to kill me. Right, right.
We do have a clip. Here, that was probably my least
favorite part was the was the was the getting shot?
I agree. Just as Diane Downs begins her

(35:12):
new life behind bars for shooting her three children, she
brings new life into the world. A baby girl, the child of a
monster, only 100 miles, but a world away from the legacy of
her birth mother. She grows up in this house in
Bend, OR, a childhood straight out of a Norman Rockwell

(35:32):
painting. For 26 years, few knew what
happened to the missing child ofDiane Downs.
Until now. This is Becky Babcock.
We were always hiking, biking, travelling.
It was very. Family oriented as we were
growing up, I was taught right from wrong.
Did you always know you were adopted?
Yes. Mm.

(35:53):
Hmm. What did your mom and dad tell
you? I was about 8 years old when I
started probing my mother for information.
I told her that her mom was in jail.
I didn't give her any details asto why that's too much for an 8
year old to take off. Yeah.
From the moment her new parents brought her home, they were
determined to keep her identity a secret.

(36:15):
But when Becky was still in preschool, the unthinkable a
phone call from authorities withshocking news.
Diane Downs had escaped. It's not easy to escape from
prison. It is not easy to escape from
prison. They had a huge fence.
They had razor wire all around it, several layers of clothing

(36:37):
to avoid being cut, downscaled, a 16 foot fence with barbed
wire, jumped and kept running. It was a daring escape with a
child killer on the loose and all points.
Bulletin is issued across Oregon.
That had to be a scary thing foryou and your family.
It was definitely a little scary.
I'm afraid she would come. We didn't know.

(36:58):
The precautions that we took were to let people know that
we're coming in contact with Becky, her daycare person, her
babysitter. So you were forced to share
that? For Becky's own safety?
Yes. Diane Downs had vowed for years
that she would get her children back, but when police find her
after a 10 day manhunt, she's ina small apartment less than one

(37:22):
mile away from the prison, living with yet another married
man. Oh my God, women have no problem
getting laid. She likes what she likes.
That's so true. I have a type.
It's like Michael Myers. Yes.
Sir, that's the boogeyman. That's so scary.
Yeah. Wow.
What about the other? Well, I guess the one.

(37:43):
She has one surviving child fromthe three.
Yes, and then then she had two others that weren't there and
then the the 6th 1 was born. What about the?
What about the the surviving 1? The prison one.
That was the Prison 1, Becky. No, no, no, no, that wasn't the
one that the one that she shot in the car.
Oh, there's two that survived inthe car.
There's two that survived in thecar and where?
Where are they? Danny is paralyzed, still alive,

(38:06):
and the other girl, Christy, shewas the one that took the stand.
She has a family of her own and they actually recently talked to
her because she was. Diane was up for parole, denied
again. Good.
Yeah, probably. They deliberated for 30 minutes
though, which is a little too long in my opinion.
Yeah, that's way too long. Just let her say her piece then
just be like no. Right.

(38:27):
Immediately. So brutal.
She's very dangerous. Yeah, yeah.
Just that's just another testament to like how fucking
crazy she is. She's not.
She shot herself in the arm. She's willing to like scale
fucking long ass like barbed wire walls.
Yeah, yeah. She is super criminal.
She's like feral. Yeah, she really is.
Yeah. Her daughter Christy that
survived, like I said, has raised her own family.

(38:49):
They asked if she sees a part ofher mother and herself and she
responded. Nature is not gonna win over
nurture. Thank God.
Also, can you not ask that please?
Yeah, I know It's a little little much.
Do you feel like? You have a little murder in your
blood. You.
Think you're gonna kill your kids?
Some we're. Just a man.
We're just gonna put this gun right here in front of you.
Do you feel like you want to pick it up and shoot on you
buddy? Do you want to lease a Nissan

(39:10):
right now? Go with what you feel.
Just go with what you feel. What?
Do you think about pulsars? Good.
Hot. She yeah, some of the reporter
questions are so fucking brutal.I know, yeah.
Ridiculous. Why?
We had that one clip with Nancy Grace.
She's like, you know, hit or miss, right?
And when she misses, it's very bad.
It's really. Really bad 'cause it's so 'cause
she like she plays it so over the top.
Yeah, and then she accuses people of doing the worst things

(39:32):
ever. Yeah, but sometimes she's right.
Sometimes she, I mean, she does a lot of good work, but yeah,
when she misses, it's bad. Yeah, I met her at crime Con
once. It was very funny because from
top down, from bottom down, she was wearing Uggs and sweatpants.
And then she had this really nice blouse and all, and she was
doing a bunch of interviews and she's like waist up, you'll feel
me from the waist up. And then she's like 411.

(39:54):
She's like this tiny little like, It's very funny.
That is fun maybe. A little taller.
And now we're getting in the car.
Not a Nissan Pulser, whatever car is not that.
And we're going to Boston. Boston.
On the night of October 23rd, 1989, Boston police received a
frantic 911 call. A man's voice, strained with

(40:14):
panic, said he and his pregnant wife had just been attacked.
The caller was Charles Stewart, the 29 year old first store
manager from Reading, MA. When officers arrived, they
found Stewart lying on the pavement with a gunshot wound to
the abdomen. Risky move.
Yeah, very much. Wow.
In the driver's seat of the couple's Toyota Camry was his
wife, Carol, seven months pregnant, shot once in the head.

(40:38):
Yeah. Carol was rushed to Brigham and
Women's Hospital, where doctors performed an emergency
C-section. Their baby boy, Christopher, was
delivered alive but severely premature.
Oh my. God, yeah, baby.
He clung to life for 17 days before succumbing to
complications. Yeah, Carol never regained
consciousness and was pronounceddead hours later.
Oh, so she didn't die right away?

(40:59):
No. That is in this.
Is the craziest thing when people survive head trauma.
Yeah, there's that one footed. They're they're at 1 foot of the
dude with like half a brain 'cause you can like live with
not all your brain. Yeah, it's crazy.
I've seen like war footage wherea guy gets shot in the head and
he's just touching his brain like that.
He thought like his head was itchy or something.
Makes me think of that Ray Liotta scene.
Was it from Hannibal? Oh, he's just like eating his

(41:21):
brain. He's still awake.
He's like, what's going on up there?
Yeah. That is crazy.
Well you know, I do know about your half brain wits walking
around this town. That's a fucking sense.
They do quite well, Yeah. It's really better to be that
way. You really don't need your
brain. Charles, despite his injury,
survived, so he's the only survivor in this predicament.
From his hospital bed, he told police a harrowing story.

(41:42):
A black man in a tracksuit had crashed his way.
Unless it's an actual black man in a tracksuit, I'm gonna say
right, just a just say Polish man just want to be like an
Italian guy came over just at some point make up a different
race that is. Because at this point, he fully
didn't think, yeah, everyone's just gonna constantly, even if
you're, if you're telling a lie,that's a bad lie.

(42:03):
At this point, everyone knows they're gonna go straight for a
person of color. Go German, go German well.
Someone. Some.
Just some. Yeah, Albanian guy.
Oh, there you go. That's a good one.
Yeah, that works. A black man in a tracksuit had
forced his way into their car after a childbirth class.
So he was, you know, going and making sure he was doing the
right thing. They were getting educated on

(42:24):
how to have a child, but this random black man robbed them at
gunpoint and opened fire. The story hit Boston like a
Thunder clap. Local TV stations broke into
programming with urgent updates.Newspapers rolled out extra
additions. Anchors warned that a violent
criminal was on the loose, a predator who had ambushed a
young couple in one of the city's working class

(42:45):
neighborhoods. And then again, they're just
blaming it all on minorities every single time.
Some poor black dude just walking home from the bar just
gets hassled that night. He's.
Like what the fuck is happening?Many, many black people were
accosted because of this. That's crazy.
Yeah. So this is like the the era in
Boston where people, like peoplesay it now and it's fucking old

(43:05):
hat attack Boston's racist. It's like at this point.
Yeah. And this is one of the reasons
why, Yeah. Yeah.
The suspect's description, a black man in his 20s wearing a
tracksuit, set the tone. Police stormed the Mission Hill
neighborhood. Black men were stopped, searched
and questioned. Apartment doors were kicked in.
Dozens were lined up and interrogated.

(43:26):
People were beaten. For Boston's black community,
already accustomed to police hostility, it was an all out
siege. That's crazy.
All they needed was a fucking reason to go ham.
Right. Yeah.
Soon the news and detectives announced they had their killer,
Willie Bennett, a 39 year old black man with a record.
Charles Stewart had picked him out of a phono lineup.

(43:47):
So that's nice. When you're the actual killer,
you get to .1 out like, Oh yeah,that's the guy.
Who would I like to see the least free?
Yes. OK, we'll go with that guy.
Yeah, Bennett's face was splashed across front pages, his
name repeated on the nightly news.
I hate that I we should at some point we should do a program
about innocent people, but innocent people, because that

(44:08):
poor guy, whatever his track record might be, whatever it is,
he didn't do this. He didn't do that.
And to be considered a devil like that and everyone's telling
you that and you're just like, Ididn't do it.
Everyone's like, OK, this soundslike something someone who did
it would say, Oh my God, this iswhat a nightmare for that guy.
What a. Nightmare.
You steal a couple of tires off a couple of fucking cars and all
of a sudden I'm a murderer. Exact no.

(44:28):
Yeah, fuck, I'm a robber. I'm in the recycling business.
You fucking? Seriously.
I'm a reseller on eBay. Exactly.
The city accepted the grieving. The city accepted the grieving
husband's word as gospel. Charles, meanwhile, became the
face of a tragedy. Photographs showed him pale and
gaunt in his hospital bed, clutching his abdomen, his eyes

(44:49):
hollow with loss. On camera, he said little, but
his silence carried weight. He looked like a man destroyed,
robbed of his wife and child in one senseless act of violence.
He just looks like he got shot. Yeah, yeah.
That's people with yeah. That's true too.
Yeah, both. Yeah, my stomach hurts.
The trajectory of Charles wound didn't line up with his story.

(45:10):
The shooting scene itself was strangely clean, and some
officers noted that while he looked pale, his grief seemed.
Measured right. So his grief, he was such a bad
actor that it offset the racism of the cops.
Yes, that's such a it's crazy tooverride in Boston in the 80s.
Yeah. Then, in January 1990, the
facade cracked wide open. Charles's younger brother,

(45:33):
Matthew, walked into a police station and confessed.
He said Charles had planned Carroll's murder, that he wanted
life insurance money and an escape from what he saw as the
burdens of fatherhood. Wow.
Yeah, well, welcome to prison for life, pal.
Or would he be? Oh no, Charles had shot Carroll
himself in the head and inflicted a non fatal wound on
his own stomach to sell the story.

(45:54):
Matthew admitted that he had helped Charles dispose of the
gun and other evidence. What a fucking bag of shit that
dude is. The confession detonated like a
bomb. The grieving widower widower was
suddenly a murderer. The random St. crime was exposed
as a hoax, and the black man Charles had blamed, Willie
Bennett, was innocent. The fallout was immediate and

(46:15):
ugly. For months, black men in Boston
had been harassed, searched, andvilified.
Entire neighborhoods have been treated as guilty because 1
white man said so, and the mediahad gone unquestioningly along
with him, amplifying his lies ina city with a long, raw history
of racial tension. Yeah, I'm sure that's why he
played on it. Yeah, exactly.
Because you're going from the 60s and 70s, there was like

(46:37):
forced busing from, you know, black communities into the white
communities. They clashed.
It was a whole thing. So he's like, this is an easy
one, sure, but before police could arrest him, Charles drove
to the Tobin Bridge on January 4th, 1990.
He abandoned his car mid span, climbed the railing and jumped
into the Mystic River. Wow.
Is that what that movie was about?

(46:59):
It's about some things, yeah. But yeah, that specific river.
Is it really? Yeah, That's crazy.
Yeah, his body was recovered hours later.
He was dead. What a bitch.
So he took the bitch way off. Oh.
My God that's annoying and he caused so much fucking trouble.
Yeah, it is. At least he.
Well, hopefully he had some thoughts when he was falling,

(47:20):
being like, wow, could you have like, what a what a waste of a
life. Yeah.
Seriously, if you you should have done that first if you
wanted to escape the burdens of Father.
That's one way to do it. And moron.
Pulling out is escaping the burdens of Father.
It's. Really a great idea.
Really all you have to do is pull it on out.
Also, just get a divorce. You could just be a deadbeat
father. It's Boston.
Yeah, it's just called Dad. So true.

(47:44):
The case was officially closed. The case was officially closed
in January of 1990, but the damage clearly remained.
In the years that followed, Boston struggled to confront the
scars of the Stuart hoax. Residents of Mission Hill never
forgot the way the police swarm the house, swarm their homes, or
the way neighbors were treated as suspects because they were
black, right? Journalists had to come out and

(48:06):
admit that they had failed in their duty, choosing
sensationalism over skepticism. Not the first nor the last.
Yeah, and the city's reputation for racial bias deepened, and
this is absolutely one of the main reasons why.
Did the fellow that was did the fellow who was accused get any
money? So here's here's an update on
him. Decades later, in 2023, Mayor

(48:27):
Michelle Wu issued a formal apology Issued a formal apology
to Willie Bennett and to Alan Swanson, another black man that
was wrong, wrongly accused and vilified during the frenzy.
Do I get any money? It was just.
It was unjust, unfair, racist and wrong.
Formally, for it's a think of the formal apology.
Appreciate the formal apology 2535 years later.

(48:50):
Yeah, yeah. They received a small monetary
settlement of $12,500. Oh what a crock.
Shit. Especially in 2023 months.
Well, they got the settlement in9595, OK, they got they got a
apology from the mayor in 2020. 30 Thank you.
Oh, you're sorry. Oh, you're sorry for all the

(49:11):
racism that you guys subsequently caused for decades
afterwards and a mess that we still can't get ourselves out
of? I think $12,000 is actually an
offensively, I would rather haveno money.
Yeah. So anyway you can keep your 12
grand? Yeah, seriously.
Well, shit. Fuck that guy.
Fuck that guy. Don't like him whatsoever.
Did his? Hopefully his brother got time.

(49:31):
I believe he escaped time because he came forward.
Snooched. Yeah, little snoocher do chill.
Yeah, well, that, you know, brings us to almost modern day
Colorado in 2018. You know, this span's a long
time, but people are still following the playbook.
Yep. On August 13th, 2018, Frederick

(49:53):
Co police were called to A2 Story Home.
Inside they found unsettling signs.
Shannon Shannon Watts's purse, phone and medications were still
there. Her SUV was parked in the
garage. Yet Shannon, 15 weeks pregnant,
and her daughters Bella and Celeste were gone.

(50:13):
The call had come from her friend Nicole Atkinson, who had
dropped her home from a businesstrip just hours earlier.
When Shannon had missed a doctor's appointment and stopped
returning texts, Nicole sounded the alarm.
She knew something wasn't right.Yeah, and Nicole was a neighbor,
right? Or just a friend?
Just a friend. Just.
A friend OK. There is a neighbor that comes

(50:33):
in very clutch, yes, in this story, and they're fucking
amazing. Chris Watts, of course, is who
we're talking about. Shannon's husband.
I hate this guy. He arrived home during the
welfare check, I. Just imagine if I just said I
love this guy. I love.
This, oh, this fucking guy's, this man.
This guy's really kind of cool. This hero, yeah, he and her

(50:55):
Chris had arrived home during the welfare check.
He was cooperative, polite and helpful.
As officers looked through the house, he opened doors, answered
questions and explained details about the couple's routines to
police and the cameras already rolling outside.
He seemed, you know, oddly calm.I actually think he did a pretty

(51:15):
good job, yeah. In comparison to to with other
people who were obviously lying after they committed aliens.
Scribe Yeah, his first initial conversations, he kind of he was
like, all right, I'm sticking tothe script.
And then once it came down to like improvising and his time
went on it, it obviously fell apart.
But at first I was like. I don't know, but he was another
one where he was on his front porch and he's like, you know,

(51:36):
just come home. Please, guys, I don't know where
you are, but just come home. But there was no like, active
fear and actual tears. There's never been any real
expression on that guys face. But but I will say this, you
man, he a man. Yeah.
And so sometimes they don't know.
They don't process anything. No, you know, they're all
stupid. We're all we're all bricks.
And shit, it is very true that sometimes like people just

(51:58):
grieve differently, like have their sense of loss, sense of
shock and express that different.
Yes, absolutely. There's like, I think people are
intuitive enough that they can tell when there's just like
absence of emotion there, right?And not just like I'm covering
up and don't know how to expressthis fucking terrible feeling
that I'm feeling. It's like, no, there's, it's not
there. How much My interrogation videos

(52:20):
and I think I can do a pretty good job.
Oh yeah? Oh my God no.
You're such a dead giveaway whenever you feel emotions.
Me. Yeah, what's she talking about?
Then you just get up and you start walking around in a
circle. No, I don't.
This is the OK, This is an indictment.
That's an indictment, Your Honor.
I would like to say that it's anindictment.
You know every. Everything's fine.
My hair is pristine. Uh huh.
All right. He's laughing.

(52:43):
He's like, what do you mean true?
Yeah. No, I don't.
I don't care. Starts pacing a lot and then and
then because I don't care. I don't care, I don't care.
Everything's. Fine, everything is fine.
Yeah, don't care. I know.
It's great. I need to exercise, let me get
my steps in but. That's that's like, you're a
human. We can tell like, oh, this is a
person that's trying to not showemotion, but it's clearly

(53:04):
showing emotion. Yeah.
Then there's people that are like, like, oh, this person
like, can we say that they're trying to?
Nope, there's nothing there. No.
If I murdered my whole family, Iwould not be able to be like,
oh, I didn't do it. I would be like, yo, look what I
did, yo. Yo check it out.
Check it out and I'd be like they sucked right and dragging
everyone on my side but right, you know in that case I would be

(53:25):
wrong. My kids and wife are plotting.
Against me, yeah, they skunk, and now I'm free.
Pretty sure they worked for the CIA.
They were plotting against me the entire time.
I mean, I might be able to get got them really fringe media to
support me. Yeah, yeah, it'd be good.
So he goes on his front porch and he says, Shannon, Bella,
Celeste, if you're out there, just come back.
The house isn't the same withoutyou.
The. House, Isn't this finally quiet?

(53:46):
Now I feel like I have to defendhim.
He's like, no, but the house really wouldn't be the same,
wouldn't it? It would be different.
Oh no. I like how you're defending him.
I'm not if. He was innocent.
If he was innocent, everything that he says would kind of make
sense. Yeah.
They said his delivery was steady, his arms crossed tightly

(54:07):
across his chest. He mentioned how empty the house
felt, how worried he was. For viewers at home, the words
were a script of a grieving husband.
For detectives, something about his demeanor was.
Off. Dead in the eyes.
Yeah, that's true. Within hours, investigators
turned to a neighbor, Nate Trinestitch, who lived next door
and had security cameras pointedin the watch driveway.
Thank God. Also, it's like, can you not put

(54:31):
in your fucking cameras in my driveway, please?
Yeah, I'm not defending this guy.
It's and I am sick of the accusation.
I would say if I was him, I'd belike, well, why was my neighbor
filming my fucking yard? OK, Because HOAHOA, right?
It is. Legal though, is it?
I have a friend who has a house in a neighborhood close by and
he was upset that his neighbors had their camera pointed at his

(54:53):
backyard constantly and he talked to his lawyer about it
and the lawyer said it's all good, the camera's on his lawn
so. Like even if it goes on to your
prime. It's within the scope of view.
Oh wow, so well, what if the what if the window to the
bathroom shower is also in the? Right.
Yeah. Well, then we're getting into
voyeur territory. Exactly.
Just because it's a piece of glass there, I guess.

(55:14):
I don't know. Well, totally, totally
different, but somebody did get in trouble for shooting on a
drone that was watching his young daughter in the backyard
and the guy got arrested for destruction of property.
That's bullshit. So fucking.
No, your property lines go straight up through the fucking
stratosphere. But I guess in this case it's
good that the person had their camera on.
Right, right. Yeah, like my, my neighbor has a
camera set up that like pretty much is like my door in complete

(55:37):
vision. Well.
That's also now your camera. Yeah, now it's like, great.
Yeah. No, please notify me whenever
someone weird looks like you're going out to my door.
Yeah. That's like the old Safeway to
know if you don't have an STD, where if you have sex with
everybody and then they don't have an STD, you say I don't
have an STD either because I hadsex with them and they didn't
have an STD and that way I don'thave one either.
Dude what? It's just a way to do it.

(55:57):
It's a more precise way of testing, Yeah.
What? Well, you would have it if they
had it. But it would take a while.
Just move on. Just.
Go on. In Nate's living room, police
reviewed the footage with Chris watching just a few feet away.
The video showed Chris backing his work truck into and out of
the garage before dawn and making repeated trips between
the house and the truck. OK, officers, I know this isn't

(56:19):
really a word yet, but cringe that is.
It is awkward, 'cause I yeah, that's me, yeah.
So we're gonna show the footage here for the.
People. Yeah, let's.
Fucking see it for. The people at home, yeah.
So Nate is going on his TV rightnow and Chris is on his cell
phone hoping to God that his camera is fucked up pumping into

(56:40):
rubbers. Today.
So what was? That so.
Far is this on continually? Yep.
Recording, Yep. Well, it's not is it motion or
is it OK? Yep, Motion.
Damn Skippy Chris is like oh gosh, I get cars driving from
this street, from this street. And this is him at 5:17.

(57:01):
So this is the neighbor speaking.
We park out there on the side. I just want to get everything
back in, be easier to lug everything out there.
All the that's Chris explaining why his truck is moving in the
middle of the night. Oh, his hands are on his head.

(57:24):
He's so stressed, he's so stressed.
Oh wow. He's got to go with the Urkel
defense. Did I?
Did I do that? Dude the hands are so
incriminating. Yeah, he's literally like, OK,
you can cuff me. I'm actually ready.

(57:44):
Yeah, he's literally getting into position to be handcuffed.
Is he carrying the children out at this point?
Yeah. So he's watching that's.
Got to be such a weird trip. I think believe he put them in
plastic bins. Wow.
My detective just showed up, so he'll probably want to talk to

(58:07):
you. You'd probably, like I said, you
might have you call at the bank and see if there's any kind of
activity. Over there and it was just like.

(58:34):
But if any action would have happened.
Any cars or? Anything left your house, it
would have. Been like right in that area
just sort of pick. I mean, oh, it'll pick up
anything coming down the street.Oh, he's like, oh shit, like.
Anything. I love how the neighbor is
catching him on everything he's saying.
Well, because he's like, don't worry, we're going to get this
guy. Right.
The neighbor wants to believe he's innocent, right?

(58:54):
Yes. But there's a twist after Chris
leaves. Oh fuck, I thought this had it.
So right after that, Chris ends up leaving and the neighbor
goes. He's acting real weird, man.
Oh, I remember that. I don't trust him.
I think he's up to something. And so they really start going
after Chris and investigating where he was, what he was doing,
what he was searching. Wow.
So Nate quietly tells the officer he never parks like

(59:17):
that. He's not acting right.
On the officer's body Cam, Chriscan be seen shifting, fidgeting,
and staring at the screen beforeabruptly excusing himself.
So right after that he's like, oh fuck, I gotta go and like,
fix some shit, right? Now, yeah, time to get my
affairs in order. Just cut to him taking a shit
like Jeff Daniels in Dumb and Dumber 5.
Toilet's broken. Sorry guys, toilet's broken.

(59:39):
That's the biggest crime of all.Yeah, as the investigation
intensified, so did the scrutiny.
Detective soon learned that Chris was having an affair with
a coworker. That's a fact he initially
denied. And I think she might be
involved with all this shit. I actually so she.
Was like, I can't date you unless you don't have kids.
I think that she was quite, I think that she was quite
overwhelmed because I think theyprobably jokingly was like,

(01:00:01):
imagine if I don't have kids. Imagine if I didn't have a wife.
Wouldn't it be funny? Wouldn't it be fun?
And I, I think it all kind of hit her like a ton of bricks.
Be like, oh, I didn't ever. No one ever thinks that's going
to. Happen.
Yeah, no one actually thinks that's going to happen.
It's a weird fantasy, but obviously they wanted to be
together, yeah. Two days after that body Cam
footage was recorded, police asked him to take a polygraph

(01:00:22):
test. He agreed and he failed, which I
don't understand why they even still use polygraphs because I
mean they're just using it as a way to make the guy nervous.
Yeah, it's just a psychological trick.
Because they are not allowed as evidence in court trials.
But they are allowed in civil. Oh really?
Yeah. Really.
No. How do you know that?
I just happen to know that the level the the level of innocence

(01:00:47):
and guilt is much less. That's why often times, like OJ
for example, was found guilty. Civilly yes, for the murders,
but not criminally. But he hid his money so well in
different accounts that he neverhad to pay.
Insane. Yeah.
In the In the interrogation roomafterward, confronted by
detectives and given a moment alone with his father, Chris
finally admitted the truth. He killed Shannon, then

(01:01:09):
smothered Bella and Celeste. Wow.
You're always a disappointment kid.
Yeah. That's horrible.
He loaded their bodies into his work truck and drove them to an
oil field operated by Anadarko Petroleum, his employer.
Yeah, that's. Very malicious and so fucking.
Brutal. So intimate to strangle your

(01:01:29):
kids. So, of course, he's not getting
along with his wife. And, you know, spousal murders
happened for some reasons, you know, crime of passion.
But he dug a grave for her. And then he threw them in oil
tanks. He threw the kids in oil tanks
which seems like a way worse. Fucking dumped them like they're
fucking nothing. Yeah.
Am I correct in saying that theywere alive during the trip?
I don't know. He they, they were dead.

(01:01:51):
Yeah, he smothered them before and they were definitely dead.
So they didn't like drown in theoil?
Oh my God, look sad. That is so wild.
So it was like in the middle. It was in the interrogation room
when he was being pressed and pressed, and then his dad came
in. Everyone left.
And then he was like, I did it. Yeah, yeah.
They brought in the big guns. When you bring in Papa Watts,
Yeah. Papa Watts coming in, Yeah.

(01:02:12):
The investigators that use drones and search teams to
locate the disturbed ground and evidence at the site.
They recovered Shannon's body wrapped in a bed sheet from the
family's home. Oh my God.
So that'll do it, That'll do it.And the girls were pulled from
the oil tanks. Well, thanks for the.
Thanks for the help, neighbor. Yeah.
That was great. Honestly, if I didn't know that

(01:02:32):
he was trying to like, just be safe with him.
Like it looked like he was trying to, it looked like they
were going toe to toe a little bit.
Yeah. They were debating where he was
like, well, you never know what comes around.
He's like, I don't know, we're gonna catch everything.
We get everything that goes on. So yeah.
But you know, sometimes there's people in garages.
No, no, no. There's actually nothing
happening. I would.
I would know the movement. I have it.
All that was a bug, not a truck like one of the bugs.

(01:02:52):
You know when it applies from the camera.
Like no, no, that definitely wasn't it.
That's a pretty clear HD. And then that is me, OK.
Yep, there it is. It must have been immediately
when he put his hands on his head.
The neighbor was like, fuck thisguy, we're gonna get him.
It really was. I mean he just like, it's almost
like he was saying fuck. Like Oh my God said.
That. Yeah, On November 6th, 2018,

(01:03:13):
Chris pleaded guilty to 9 counts, 5 counts of first degree
murder, 2 for each of the girls under Colorado law, one count of
unlawful termination of a pregnancy, and three counts of
tampering with a body. He was sentenced to five
consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole word,
plus 84 more years plus 84, fivelife terms back-to-back to

(01:03:34):
back-to-back to back, then 84. Holy shit.
Well, he's got a whole bunch of life cycles he's gotta live.
Yeah, yeah, in there. You.
Can't even die, buddy. No.
And I can't imagine the prisoners in that.
Wherever he is, take lightly. Take it lightly what he did.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Killing children your next level.
Children. Woman, your wife.
Your wife or? Offspring.

(01:03:55):
Yeah. People in prison have families,
you know. They do.
It's reported that Shannon's family actually urged
prosecutors to take the death death penalty off the table,
sparing them the spectacle of a drawn out trial, which we also
saw during the Brian Koburger trial, Right.
Yeah, definitely. And then that was about 5050.
Half the families were like OK, and then the other half wanted
to see him really wiggle in there exactly some.

(01:04:18):
Parents didn't even show up. I don't think that I would.
They're so there's. I would.
I'd be there every day. I'd jump over the table.
And you think so? Oh, I definitely would.
Yeah, there's a. Couple of a couple of the kids,
the victims parents, like just they were like, no, we're moving
on as a family. We're not going to any of the
trials. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't. I really don't think that I
could. I really don't.
I think I'm because when you just sit there, first of all,

(01:04:38):
it's boring. I mean, let's be honest.
Yeah, you know, you just sit there for hours.
But I really would be. It would just hurt so much.
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. I don't know that I could put
myself through it either. Just breathing the same air as
that person. Yeah, just having them sit there
all fucking creepy like. Yeah, well, weird.
Man, so that's up to the victims.
It is the Watts case, like all of these cases, became a study

(01:05:00):
in performance. They all attempted to weaponize
the camera to use the medias reach as a shield, projecting an
image of a worried husband, wife, mother or father while
knowing all along that what theyhave done has occurred.
It's insane. I don't know how they could do
that. I can barely lie about why I
didn't do my homework, right? Barely.

(01:05:20):
And they're like, yeah, we can tell you're fucking lying.
You don't have a dog and you eat.
Shit. Well, fuck, at some point maybe
we'll cover it. But Scott Peterson, that's a
good example of because there's a lot of people who say he might
be innocent. Yeah, they're coming out with
some new evidence about a new man that had a burnt mattress
inside of it. I wouldn't.
I've not covered him at all. Have you covered him?

(01:05:40):
No, we haven't, but. We have to be.
Scott Peterson. Yeah, OK.
So that will take us to some final thoughts.
Final thoughts, the easy way outis never the easy way out.
It's actually a much more difficult way out.
And all of these people were immensely lazy and very stupid
and they thought point A to point BI don't want to have
kids? I'm going to kill them.
It'll be the Super easiest way to do it and obviously it ruins

(01:06:02):
not just their lives but your life.
So just take the harder Rd. Well, it's technically the
easier in the long run, but dealwith it like an adult.
Seriously, I want a divorce or Ican't take care of my children.
I'm sorry, here, you you have totake care of them.
Whatever it might be, do it. Yeah, that.
Listen, we give you permission to be a piece of shit.
You can give up your parental rights and just go live your

(01:06:22):
life. Are people going to think you're
an asshole? Yeah, but it's better than
killing your fucking. Kids.
Yeah, you'll just be on Cabo drinking a Margarita.
I mean, it'll be fine. No one asks you too many
questions in in South Florida. Yeah, they're very true.
Yeah, very true. Yeah.
There's a ton of people that ditch their kids out there.
Like all. And the kids are very happy
because of it. Yes.

(01:06:42):
Like no child would be like I was ditched if I'm a mom and
well, maybe somewhat, but if they don't want you it's
probably best you go someplace. Else.
Yeah. No, Definitely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My final thought would be this.
If I wanted, if I had a choice. I'm almost like I'm sick of you.
You wanna die or just go away? I'm like, hey, I'm out.
I'll see you later. Bye.
Never seen me again. Yeah, exactly.
No, it's really messed up. I think it's crazy.

(01:07:04):
I think people are so dumb and simple minded to think that they
can create these elaborate plansthat are that no one will see
through. And they're putting themselves
on television in front of multiple counties, in front of
multiple cops, in front of multiple victims.
And they're like, yeah, I can outsmart every single person.
Yeah. And you can't.
You never can. And you could see all of these

(01:07:26):
stories followed a very familiarpattern that there's a monster
out there. You guys gotta find them.
That ain't me, right? So next time you see somebody on
the news, I'm not saying you don't believe him right away,
but you look for the fucking signs that we've told you here
today. Yeah, was all of those things.
Yeah. And anyone who just goes to the
camera too much. I mean, again, I don't want to
tell people how to grieve, but Iwould assume if I was like

(01:07:47):
grieving, I wouldn't be like inside editions calling, I'll
do, can I do, I'll do it for $5000, especially when they
start making money off it. Oh God.
But anyway. It's a whole thing.
Well, thank you guys so much forlistening.
Yeah. Thank you, thank you so much.
Rate and review on Spotify. Please again, go to
patreon.com/die [e-mail] for the

(01:08:08):
e-mail. And we really appreciate growing
and getting to know all of you. OK everyone, love yourself, be
yourself, hail yourself. And until next week.
Don't go dying on us. Bye.
You have just heard. A true Hollywood murder mystery.
I have never seen anything like this before.
The movies, Broadway, music, television, all of it.

(01:08:31):
A place that manufacturers nightmares.
Look everybody, that's a wrap. Good night, please drive home
carefully and come back again soon.