Who Really Killed Kurt Cobain? New Murder Theory Unplugged (Episode 137 ft. Chris Todd)

Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain was the voice of a generation. His untimely death on April 5, 1994, left a hole in the heart-shaped box of popular music. Was he a depressed junkie the end of his ropes or is there more to the story? The official word is that he took his own life. But many people think it smells like BS. 

Today we return to Seattle where a brand new murder theory is in bloom. Nevermind what you think you know about the case because we're about to blow the lid right off! 

Author Chris Todd joins us in studio to get to the truth of what really happened... and who's responsible. This is the episode Courtney Love doesn’t want you to hear. So come as you are, today on Death in Entertainment.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Nirvana front man Kurt Cobain was the voice of a generation.
His untimely death on April 5th,1994 left a hole in the
heart-shaped box of popular music.
The following is a sound bite from one of his last interviews.
What excites you now? My baby and my marriage.

(00:20):
I don't know. I still like playing too.
Are those the words of a depressed man?
The official story is that he took his own life, but many
people think it smells like BS. Today we return to Seattle where
a brand new murder theory is in bloom.
Never mind what you think you know about the case, because

(00:42):
we're about to blow the lid off.This is the episode Courtney
Love doesn't want you to hear. So come as you are and join us
on death and entertainment. Live from Los Angeles. 911 What

(01:03):
is your emergency? Here in Hollywood now.
Two counts of murder. Injury and death.
Oh. My God, shocking new details.
It has stung the entertainment world.
This makes me a little nervous. The hair stood up on my arms.
Just like in the movies, What do?
You call this thing anyway. Death in.
Entertainment. Greetings, Dead O universe.

(01:24):
Hello. How are you?
It's been a little bit. How's everybody doing?
Good. I'm much better.
You sound incredible. Yeah, 'cause the last episode
that we recorded, I really sounded like Harvey Fierstein
and he was a corpse. Be careful with this one this
time. She's an old lady.
What is going on, everybody? My name is Kyle Plouffe.

(01:45):
My name is Alejandro Dowling. And Oh my God, do we have a
treat for you guys today. One of our favorite guests we've
ever had is Back in the flesh. Everybody give it up for Chris
Todd. I'll.
Clap for myself. Hey, why not?
We got an audience tonight too. We brought a couple fans with
us, so feel free to clap or laugh or, you know, whatever.

(02:08):
But hey man, I'm glad to be back.
You guys are kicking butt. Yeah, so glad to see you guys
again and got a couple special treats for you tonight.
Yeah, tonight the dish we're serving is the real story about
Kurt Cobain. Yeah, we got into this a little
bit before. Yes, we have covered Kurt
Cobain, but there's a brand new theory that even I don't know.

(02:30):
It's hot. That's the theme.
You've probably heard the theorybefore, but I'm going to prove
it to you all. Right, I'm into it.
Just as a warning to everybody out there, this is a true crime,
a comedy podcast, so there will be some laughs along the way.
If that's not your thing, then pick another rehab center.
Turn to another radio station that's.
Right. And without further ado, let's

(02:51):
get into it. All right, Chris, we did our own

(03:11):
episode. Like we said on Kurt Cobain the
week in question. What we know for sure is that
Kurt was in rehab. Escapes, flies up to Seattle.
But before he escaped, he was entertaining the other people at
the rehab center doing pratfalls.
OK, yeah, OK. That's what I heard.
To me, that could be new to me. I love the word escape, too.

(03:32):
Like people say he jumped the wall and then other people like
you just walk out. Yeah, you can just walk out for
the. Most so that's why it was so odd
he was actually putting on a show for people for some reason,
acting like he was all three stooges in one.
Oh, really? Yeah.
OK, Yeah. So interesting for such a
depressed guy, right? Well, I yeah, I didn't know
that. I didn't know too much about

(03:54):
his. I know a couple.
I think there's some famous guyswho were with him and visited
him and they're part of the story, like some of the last
people to see him alive, Right. But yeah, I know good to.
He was a funny guy. Actually, if you really listen
to he had a very funny kind of sense of humor.
A little dry. Yeah, but he makes some funny
faces when they ask him about the ticket sales.

(04:16):
They're like, and he's like, Oh my God, like the we charge 17.
How much this is Madonna charge and like his face is, it's sad,
man. It you know, we're doing this
for Kurt. We this is Kurt's army brought
you guys a shirt. Thank you.
This is for all the people behind us.
There's actually a couple groupsof people just want to plug who
killed kurt.org. And also that's a YouTube

(04:38):
channel called Who Killed Kurt? Joe Burns has come forward as
our witness, one of the witnesses, and this was made by
one of my guys, Super cool dude,and he's running a page on
Facebook called Kurt's Army. Go check it out.
Shout out to Kurt's army. Yeah, they're sweet shirts, so
be sure and get one. Yes.
So at the same time he's escaping, flying up to Seattle,

(05:01):
Courtney Love is in a hotel room, holed up in a hotel room.
No pun intended. Getting pulled out by one of her
bandmates and then all of a sudden there's supposed to be
someone that goes to do electrical work at the house
that Courtney and Kurt lived in and they find him with a hole in
his head in a suicide note. And with very nice hair.

(05:24):
Yes, right before that, all we know is that he was at a bar in
a restaurant that people saw himat, and he went to go see Harvey
Keitel's Dick and the Pianist. The piano or the piano?
Yeah, sorry. The pianist was the Nazi one
with Adrien Brody. Oh, that would have been a
little different. The piano was with Holly Hunter
and Harvey Keitel's Dick. That's right.
What a weird last movie to see. Yeah, when do we say he saw this

(05:47):
movie? When he got to Seattle, so in
between, when he arrived in Seattle, went to the bar, I
think, yeah. That's OK.
We're, you know, what's funny isit's there's a paradigm about
the movements. Yeah, right.
But some of the way you just worded that, it's clicking in my
head. Oh, I'm going to tell you
something different, OK. OK.

(06:07):
Wow. So yeah, after he goes to see
the pianist, that's the last piano.
Sorry, the piano. Jesus, that's the last time
anyone saw him anywhere until hewas found deceased.
So where do you want to start inthat timeline?
What do we have wrong? What do we have right?
Yeah. I mean, I think if we just kind
of ease into it, like I just start it and you guys can ask
questions about, wait a minute, why are you saying that that

(06:29):
dates wrong? Sure.
That's where you're going to have a lot of changes.
So basically, I mean, if we juststart it at Exodus, which is the
rehab center, he's going to leave there and get on a plane
and sit to Duff Mckagan, which is the story that Duff has told
that. Yeah, I saw they just randomly,
I guess, are on an airplane together.

(06:51):
Do I believe Duff Mckagan? Probably.
OK. They say they drank something.
This is late at night. This is almost like a red eye
going going to Seattle. So that is actually the end of
March because on April 1st, he'sflying on April 1st, it's April
Fool's Day. Yeah.
And as he the clock's going to tick over midnight into April

(07:14):
2nd, a Saturday, that's when themurders going to occur.
OK, now you think the murders April 5th.
Wow. And you think the bodies found
on April 8th? Wait, hold on, we didn't say
murder yet. I know, yeah, this is a how your
ears perked up 'cause. You're going to get Chris
Todded. Whoa.
Because the you. Didn't send that limo for me and

(07:35):
send me all the way up here fromOrange County, right?
Thanks for the limo guy. It's pretty nice white limo like
OJ was supposed to get and I like the white.
The main theory we've all been fed is that he's supposed to be
depressed, being the coolest rock star in the world.
Yeah, millionaire. I mean super pissed off he
hasn't just had a baby out a year old.

(07:56):
And then he just shoots his headoff.
Yeah, and he worked his whole life to become that, right?
The garage band Days lived in Olympia, busted his ass.
His first record deal was for like 500 bucks.
He was on Sub Pop. They did Bleach the first album.
They didn't even make any money.Dave Grohl was their 4th
drummer. So it was really Chris

(08:17):
Novoselich and Kurt. They had different band names.
So yeah, he reaches the pinnacleand he's 27.
I guess he's part of the 27 club, which he is, and he just
decides to end it all and all the heroin.
Brown. I don't know if we can say that
the brown, they said. I can't say that H word.
We're not censoring ourselves here, OK?

(08:37):
Cool. No, this is uncensored.
OK. Uncut.
Well, I'm talking about YouTube.I'm not talking about you.
Yeah, but we don't give a shit. Screw it.
We'll keep our numbers down. There you go, Speak the truth.
So obviously we did get into some of the murder theories too,
but mainly that of Tom Grant. Yeah, the police officer.
Private Dick. Yeah, the private Dick.
Excuse me? You're talking about Tom Grant

(08:59):
soaked in bleach with Ben Statler.
He did the movie where the actorplays Tom.
It's kind of a morph of documentary and scripted
together. OK?
That's Tom Grant's story, OK. He dedicated his life.
He recorded everything with Courtney.
He worked for Courtney Love. Everybody knows him as kind of

(09:20):
the key figures in Nick Broomfield's documentary Kurt
and Courtney. Great documentary in my opinion.
He was awesome, I love him. He did Biggie and Tupac.
He did. Heidi Fleiss.
I knew Nick. I actually got to talk to Nick a
couple times. I think he, I will say this
right now, I think he's the bestinvestigative documentarian of
all time. Whoa.
And I think he's influential theway that he became part of the

(09:43):
story. Yes.
And all of them, even Eileen Warnos.
That was captivating. Yes.
So you just named all these hugestories.
You're right. He was kind of part of it.
He'd carry the microphone and hehad like, the heck.
It was just a weird way he did it.
A lot of his our car driving shots were just driving and
driving. Anyway, my point is on Kurt.

(10:04):
He interviewed one of the killers on camera.
Whoa. El duche.
No. OK.
Is that what do you call that a red herring?
Yes, Duche. To remind people he is the punk
rocker guy that Courtney Love allegedly hired to blow his
fucking head off. Yeah, 50 grand to Wacker.
Wacker, old man. Yeah, and in Curtain, Courtney,

(10:27):
Nick Broomfield talks to him. And then the next shot, he
explains. Oh, he's been hit by a train.
Yeah, he literally gets killed like which is weird.
Death by misadventure, yeah. Like he's no like, run over by a
train. That's weird.
And it helped Nick. It gave Nick some juice like
that he could never have imagined.
You did some deal with Courtney,right?

(10:48):
Yeah. She offered me 50 grand to whack
Kurt Cobain. That's the fact, is it?
But people might think you're not the most reliable witness.
Well, that's too bad. But how are you going to whack
him? And she tell you how to do it?
Yeah. Blow his fucking head off from
where? Were you going to find him to do
it? Well, up there.
And she gave, you know, mapped it out.

(11:08):
I mean, you know, up there in Bellevue, wherever they live,
right outside Seattle, I know, right?
Where the house is, I know right.
What, what garden? Pop him in.
I just didn't think she was serious.
But did she tell you how she wanted you to?
Pop him, blow his fucking head off.
I got the shotgun. But she didn't say anything.
About make it look like a suicide.

(11:30):
Would you say that there's truthto her trying to hire him or
not? Was he just possible?
I won't say it's not true. I I he took a lie detector test.
They say he passed. They had a very famous the guy
from OJ that supposedly did OJ geld.
He's like one of the top guys. Supposedly, L Duche passed when

(11:50):
he said Courtney Love offered him 50,000.
But see, I don't like telling that story because this is the
old paradigm. And Allen Wrench.
Oh, that's my friend Allen. You got to ask.
Yeah. Real quickly then, what was Tom
Grant's final analysis with this?
Well. Let's slowly.
Yeah, OK, good. I was just getting up to speed.
There's going to be a paradigm shift not only with you, but

(12:11):
with your audience. OK, and it's got to be done in a
kind of a just slow baby steps, but it'll still be exciting.
We're. Going to Make Love to it.
I know we're in Hollywood. Or you.
Know so who I'm feeling already See, I thought that Tom Grant's
today was part of the old guard that we're getting rid of That's
why. We have to use him a little bit
because he recorded Courtney catching her in lies.

(12:35):
You need to use that. His timeline is mostly correct,
but what Tom Grant didn't know is that there's eight people in
the house. Whoa.
Hurt gets killed. 8. Now when I say the number 8,
what I want that to do to you issay, oh, shit, this is probably
real because if I said there were two people there, can they

(12:59):
really corroborate? But what if I say there's 8?
How can all 8 lie and I already got them all?
Yeah. They would be hired to.
Buckle up, boys. Yeah.
Wow. So there's two killers, there's
6 accessories. You can call them witnesses if
you want. Witnesses a little nicer of it.
That's what I mean. Yeah.
It depends how you look at it, right?

(13:20):
But the definition of an accessory is someone that helps
a murder take place before, during, or after, right?
If you help after, cover it. It's aiding and abetting.
Abetting means to egg somebody on.
Aiding means you're helping them.
OK, so if these people are at the house and they don't say
anything to the police and they don't say anything to the

(13:40):
public, they don't rat anybody out.
By definition, they are accessories.
OK, now they're out is if the police didn't investigate them,
which they didn't, nobody was interrogated, then technically
their 5th Amendment right to be silent protects them 'cause they
didn't obstruct justice, right? And if they say, 'cause I have a

(14:01):
guy that works with me on this all the time, If no cop comes up
to you, you have the right to remain silent.
You don't necessarily have to report it, right?
But then there's what's called concealment of murder.
So let's just say it's a Gray area of what you want to call
them. Sure.
OK. The guy coming forward, his name
is Joseph Burns, and that's spelled JOSEFI.
Like to say that? Oh, we've talked about the worst

(14:23):
people are all have Joseph spelled that way.
Because he is God. How do I say this when he
watches videos, You know, he's got like an iron cross on his
skull. His backpack says Blank was
right. I don't know if you can see who
I'm saying. I want, I want, I'm saying it
gently. But the thing I will say, I'd

(14:46):
love to say something controversial right now, please,
'cause we're in Hollywood. What are we here for?
About an Austrian fellow with a toothbrush mustache.
Here we go. Let me let me just say this.
There's been Oscar ceremonies where they hang a swastika on
the wall because of the movies that have that in the movie,

(15:07):
like JoJo Rabbit. One of my favorite movies.
Kyle loves it for something. OK, makes no sense.
It's saccharine and embarrassing.
Oh God, do you? See where I'm going already with
this? Sure.
So I don't want to hear people say this guy's a raging blank,
blank, blank. He worships blank.
You know what Hollywood does too?

(15:27):
Relax. Wait, but hold on.
So you're. Saying how many Netflix
documentaries are there about him?
How many you could you name him about Hitler?
Yeah, World War 2IN color. Who do you think's the star of
that? How to be a dictator?
Yeah. All I've seen is love on the
spectrum. Yeah.
But my, well, my point is, is this guy's not a bad guy, OK.

(15:48):
A lot of Hitler. No, not.
Holy shit. Is getting.
This is not special. Oh, this is going.
To get, all he wanted to do was make.
That Chris Todd guy, I knew it that.
Guy Oh, but are you saying that JoJo Rabbit was this?
Made millions of dollars off of playing your boy.
No, but was it made for the solepurpose?

(16:09):
Over bombs like this. Was it made for the sole purpose
of displaying Nazi propaganda atthe Oscars?
JoJo Rabbit was up for an Academy Award.
There were swastikas hanging from the fucking ceiling.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
I'm not even joking here, but I thought the movie was so bad I

(16:29):
did wonder why it was nominated for so many Oscars.
It was so. Good, he loves it.
It's one of my favorite movies of that year.
Yeah, well, Kyle's a little demented.
What about the audience? Audience.
What do you guys think about JoJo Rabbit?
It was so much fun. And they're going to say they
never saw it. That's probably.
True. Now his name, I'll say his name
because somebody wrote me and said he wanted to write me and

(16:50):
but I think it might have been afake account of the the star,
right? You know what I'm talking about.
I won't. Say his name.
What? Tyka.
Yeah. Yeah.
All right. You, you said it.
We can bleep it. That's on you.
I think everybody knows at this point that he wrote and directed
the movie. Hollywood Illuminati.
Yeah. This is is wild though.
But my point is OK, when he's onthere wearing the patch and

(17:13):
playing the with the hair and the he's getting paid to do with
that role, is he not? Of course.
Does that studio make money fromwhat he just did?
Yes or no? Did that movie make money?
Fuck yeah, it did all from me. Yeah, I watched it on the
airplane. I'm not sure.
That anyway, moving on from that, my point is.
Let's get back to Mr. Cobain. Anyway, my point is, the witness

(17:38):
who people are calling a Nazi because of his backpack, and
he's got these patches and he's come forward, nobody's ever seen
this guy. OK?
So yeah, he's got like kind of the eagle on his skull.
But what I'm trying to get it ishe doesn't make money from doing
any of that. It's a passion project.
Like JoJo? If there weren't bad guys, there

(17:58):
is no Hollywood, right? OK, you.
Don't have a script without the bad guy.
People love bad guys. So my point is I'm just trying
to stick up for him because a lot of people are going to see
this and they're all going to race to the Facebook group.
Chris Todd said these are sympathizer with this guy, so
we're moving on from that. Joseph Burns has come forward to
talk about him being at the house when this went down.

(18:20):
OK, so we're going to discuss. That and why was he at the
house? Drugs.
These are drug dealers, rockers.He was in a band, Aspirin Feast,
and I think he played on Earth with Dylan Carlson, wink, wink.
And they're all like either rockers or drug dealers or drug

(18:41):
addicts. They're all doing heroin.
Kind of like a hype house last crack house.
It's a party house. When Kurt comes home, they're
there, right? Yeah, in his house.
So that's where we're going to get into.
Got it. Yeah.
So the clock ticks over to April2nd.
He shows up, He is dropped off by a limousine with a female
driver. We believe that's the last
person to see Kurt alive outsideof the house.

(19:03):
OK, your movie story is probablynot real.
And the bar not real. Correct.
All right. And how do we know that this was
a woman driver? We know through the we have all
the drivers who drove him because there's going to be
something else. Kurt was driven to the airport
and there's a story about that by a male driver the day before.

(19:23):
He was at rehab for two days. So do the math.
I don't know if it was March 31st or 30th.
My point is this guy, Harvey Ottinger said he drove Kurt in
the limo to the airport and Kurtwas carrying a box of shotgun
shells with them and goes, oh, Iforgot these here.
And then Harvey tried to sell those to people later on.
But I think that's all made-up. I don't think that's true.

(19:44):
That supports the suicide theory.
That Courtney probably paid him to say that.
Oh my God. There's so much to it, we're not
going to get into it all. It's just not possible.
Right. I'd like to think that the
driver had a thick accent, like the Lady and Pulp Fiction.
Right. Who's driving Bruce Willis after
the fight? Yeah, Yeah.
So I'm just saying is when Kurt,a female limo driver, picks him

(20:07):
up at the airport, Duff Mckagan goes, we should take Kurt home.
And when I came back, he was gone.
So Kurt just kind of boot scooted out of the airport and
this limo drives him home. When he goes home, there's
people in his house. It's like a party right now.
When I say 8, we have different stories about did Dylan and this
other guy show up a little afterKurt came home or were they

(20:28):
already there? We're still working that out,
but they're all there, OK. Whether there's a staggering
like Kirk, hey, he's home, he's here.
Come on. There's some premeditation to
this because remember, that suicide note is already written.
Kurt wrote it, but he didn't write the last four lines.
The last four lines are very different.
They're bigger font. They're wider.

(20:50):
Yeah. Sound like Kurt.
I love you. I love you.
It doesn't sound like him. You're better off without me.
Wouldn't that be a lot better for the killers to write that?
You'll be better off with that, because if you read the rest of
the suicide note, it's not suicidal.
You need to really read it closely.
People are saying that was his way of quitting the music
business, correct? Yeah.
Which is why he quoted Neil Young.

(21:11):
Yeah, and he talks about faking it and he's not happy and
there's no joy. You can read it.
He's a bright guy. It's kind of poetic, the way
he's saying. It's abstract in a way, but it's
not. I'm going to do.
Sorry guys, I'm out of here. I really think that had he
survived it would have been a beetles type situation where he
leaves Nirvana yes and then doessolo stuff.

(21:34):
What, with one fucking half of ahead?
No, had he's, oh, I meant like, had he not even been shot?
Had that never happened? That'd be quite the.
Act though like Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice our friend Charles
Dietz. Yeah.
The way they treat him in the movie Jeffrey Jones, he has no
head and it's very gruesome yet.Anyway, the note was just a

(21:55):
complete they repurposed it. Kurt wrote it on the back of an
IHOP menu. We don't know exactly when.
Obviously they someone held on to that.
It's most likely Courtney Love. Yeah.
OK. And the last few lines don't
really match handwriting. And they find a backpack.
This is part of Tom Grant's thing, so we'll give him his
flowers and his kudos. He's been on this a while.

(22:18):
I know, but there's some issues with Tom that I'm going to bring
up, too. OK, so that suicide note
supposedly written on the back of an IHOP menu, the last four
lines. Now, Rosemary Carroll, their
attorney for Courtney and Kurt Courtney, leaves her backpack in
her office. This is what they said.
This is all part of it. And in there they find
scribblings of tracing letters. So if she.

(22:41):
Left that accidentally why she tracing letters of Kurt's
handwriting. That's what they're showing.
And on it, it says get arrested.She does.
This is like a plan. She does these fake news
stories. She fakes the missing persons
report on April 4th, which is a Monday I believe, and she says
she's Wendy O'Connor Kurt's mom.She admits to that.

(23:01):
That's why Tom Grant's importantbecause he has documented
recordings of her saying these crazy things.
It shows deception. So are you saying she was in on
it? Yes, I'm here.
I'm not here to say Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain.
I'm here to say the two men in the house killed Kurt Cobain and
there were 6 accessories slash witnesses.

(23:22):
But she wasn't actually there. She's not there.
She's in the peninsula like he'stalking about.
Yeah. Yeah, because the Nick
Broomfield documentary very much.
No, Tom Grant tells you. That, yeah, Tom Grant is in that
as well. Yeah.
His story is all about Courtney being responsible.
And that's his problem. And that's where we're going to
get into some of the, the Tom Grant thing is because all these

(23:43):
people and when I started to meet these people, I've been on
this about 6-7 months, 24/7. Yeah, OK.
I don't need to be on at 10 years.
I don't want to do that. I'm writing a book called Kurt's
Murder and me, OK, that's about Joseph's vision.
And I'm using only their first names.
I'm not saying the people's lastnames because I want to Roman a
Clef it. I want to have some fiction with

(24:05):
it mixed in, sure, so that I'm stimulated.
OK. Yeah.
So, yeah, I don't like the one at 103 PMI.
Don't do that. You know me.
Yeah. So and it's not very accurate in
the end. I always wonder when you're
reading non fiction books or autobiographies, how do they
remember that 50 years ago? People fill in details with, oh,

(24:25):
absolutely made-up facts. I went to a writers conference
and there was like a whole non fiction panel and people were
like, you know what about the actual truth?
And they're like, it's the emotional truth.
It's what you remember is true. I'm like you fucking scum.
The true crime industry has a lot of.
Yeah, yeah. That's an entertainment though,

(24:46):
I have to say. The BS stops here.
That's right, we want only the truth.
But anyway, the point is to get into it.
So Tom Grant is obsessed with Courtney Love.
And if we just broom ahead really quick, which we can do,
he never names a real killer, right?
He well, Courtney's not there, Tom.
So who did it, Tom? Who did it?

(25:07):
He can't say go ahead. He kind of blames the male
nanny, right? Callie DeWitt, Yes.
Yeah, for sure, knowing more than he's LED out.
Yeah. The person's of interest is back
and it's bigger than ever. That scream will echo in my head

(25:29):
for many years. You're going to shoot shot five,
shot five, shot 5. He had the the perfect aim.
I am absolutely stressed at thatpoint.
I have no idea where my officersare.

(25:50):
Persons of interest available everywhere.
You get your podcasts. OK, but then tell us.
I've only I've never even reallyheard him say his name and I've
researched and watched all his stuff.
I know what you're saying because I have another guy who
knows a lot about Tom Grant and he's like, well, he thought Cal.
I go dude, he said his name likeonce and he doesn't say Cali did

(26:13):
it. He says like, well, I think
Callie and Renee were there. So but guys, we need more
evidence. We need How about a witness
saying they saw? It no, I think he truly is lost
in this case in the sense that he doesn't have the answer
either. So he's kind of in a a circle
there. But here's the thing.
Now this is let's let's get intoit.

(26:33):
We're back at the party, yes, where there's 8P.
April 2nd about 1:00 AM. Kurt will be dead by three. 3:30
AM. Wow, the last two.
Hours of his life, so that's fast.
Yeah, this is it for him, OK. So he honey, I'm home, and
within two hours he's dead. Yes wow and the suicide is

(26:53):
staged but the staging of the suicide goes on for a day about
cause the no cops show up. So they have time to really.
They have time, they're keeping an eye, they put him in the
greenhouse. But let's let's just go into it.
What it is. He comes home, he has this last
meal supposedly with Joseph and they say it's Marie Callender's
or he it's Turkey and Mashed potato.

(27:15):
They find undigested food like kind of in his.
Stomach. So showing he just ate OK.
Do you just eat when you're going to off?
Yourself, do you have a? Meal and hang out and then you
just quickly decide it's just and you're going to do it while
you're extremely high on heroin.Most suicides are when they're
coming down or they're like coldTurkey, can't get it.

(27:37):
My life sucks, I have no money, I'm a loser not I'm high and I'm
a millionaire. And you certainly don't want
comfort food like Turkey and mashed potatoes, right?
You know what I mean, right? So, and that's the other big
theory too, right? That he would have been too high
to pull the trigger. Yes, we're gonna get into.
That nearly lethal dose. Or actually it should have.
Been four or five times the lethal.

(27:59):
Yeah, should have been lethal dose, yeah.
So they're they're hanging out. It's like a smack party.
These are dealers, rockers. These are unsavory people.
So whole fans. Whole fans, yeah.
But I'm saying like, even with me, like, when I deal with like,
a victim, I don't just ride thattrain, OK?
Kurt lived a pretty crazy lifestyle.

(28:20):
OK, Come on. Like Courtney did too. 90s
grunge baby. Yeah.
In. Seattle.
That's frigging Ground Zero for the movement.
Cloudy. Rainy He invented.
It. Yeah, him and like Pearl Jam and
Alice In Chains and Soundgarden.Screaming trees.
Screaming trees. Now that's Mark Lanigan, who
used to dress up in the dress like Kurt.
He died. A couple years we talked about

(28:42):
him on. He put the makeup on.
He's not at the house, but he was good friends with Kurt and.
And people know him. As with the dresses.
These guys were ahead of their time, man.
These guys were doing the cross dressing before.
That's really acceptable. Yeah.
Obvious today, if you did that, they would clap for you.
Yeah. Back then it was weird.

(29:02):
Yeah. The in utero cover is Callie
DeWitt dressed in the dress, sitting in the bathtub.
Wow. One of the accessories to the
murder. Oh, wow.
That's him. They like to be shocking.
Come on, man. That's course Kurt's eating the
guns and the pictures. The toy guns.
Oh yeah. You seen those?
Yeah. That doesn't help our 'cause.
Either does. Not or the song I hate myself
when I want to die. He has a lot of you know.

(29:23):
That's kind of telling, you know?
Anyway, so they're, they're there April 2nd.
There's they're partying, they're, they're all fucked up,
OK? They're all high as a kite.
It's late. Kurt's getting always probably a
little irritated, right? You're in this house.
Courtney's not there. The baby's not there.
The baby's in LA. He wants them to leave Eve.
OK, so he's not in the mood to join.

(29:44):
Like he hangs out for a little while, they say, like there's a
basement. And look, I'm sure they're maybe
they play music a little bit. He's talking to Joseph.
They eat some food together. This is what Joseph says.
Remember, I'm using a witness and it's corroborated by his
girlfriend. Her name is Bonnie.
So he wants him to leave. Things are a little weird.

(30:05):
You guys got to go. People are kind of in different
places of the house. Some are in the basement, some
are walking around. I would hate that finger in one.
Yeah, that sounds terrible. Sounds awful.
Yeah, I'd, I'd be like, OK, cool.
We can hang out for a little bitthen I'll hit him with I hit him
with the old. So what are you guys up to for
the rest of the night? Right.
Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, yeah.
You want to go shoot up somewhere else?
Yeah. By chance?

(30:25):
Yeah, so. But they're not leaving.
They're not going anywhere. He know.
He figures that out. See, This is why I don't have
people over no. Well, not at 3:00 AM shooting
heroin. Especially heroin addicts.
They're like pests you can't getrid of.
Yeah. They're still there at breakfast
trying to eat your cereal. So he finally gets mad and

(30:47):
supposedly yells at Dylan. Now him and Dylan had a little
bit of a he supposedly threw thetrash can at Dylan at the at the
intervention before Kurt went torehab.
There was an intervention a few days before with Courtney and
all of them they slashed his tires so he couldn't drive away.
They all four tires were slashedin the garage.
Yeah, and it went horribly, the intervention.

(31:08):
Pretty much, yeah. Kurt kind of retreated in the
basement and started playing theguitar.
That's what he's supposed. To And that's the excuse that
Courtney gave afterwards as to why he was so depressed.
She's like, I regret the intervention.
That's on the Barbara Walters interview.
If you notice when she goes, what do you think?
Why do you think your husband did it?

(31:28):
She goes he was ganged up on Freudian slip.
Oops. Because he was assaulted in the
basement. Well, maybe she meant it
metaphorically. Or she just slips.
I think she slips. Why do you think your husband
killed himself? He was ganged up upon.

(31:49):
Do you really feel? I don't know.
You feel his death is your fault.
In this instance, yes. Because.
Because I didn't need to call for an intervention, you I
shouldn't have called for an intervention.
I just panicked. Because you tried to get him off
drugs and because he didn't, wasnot able to get off drugs even

(32:11):
though you were trying to do theright thing, it's your fault.
He thought it was a waste of space.
Yes, it's yes. I told him he had dropped the
baby and I was mean about it. I wasn't really mean, but I
wasn't nice about it. Also, he felt like a waste of
space in a sellout and he'd madeeverything too huge and it was
his fault that everything was too huge.

(32:33):
Do you understand what I mean? Yes, I.
Do look, she's bright. She's a unique individual.
I'm going to tell you right now,she's a unique bird.
She might have said it in a way that she's cryptically telling
you, 'cause she's crying as she says it.
Yeah. Or she means, like, emotionally
ganged up on by us. And we told him he's got to
quit. We get it.
She's a genius. This is what happens on cases.

(32:55):
You're going to see these weird little symbols, OK?
Well, you always see people slipup eventually, especially when
you know more later. Yes, I give you go back and
watch things correct. Ohh that's interesting.
I see this. Happening with Diddy now, right?
How many times he's talked aboutit in in the open?
Everybody just laughed about it 'cause I thought it was a joke.
So. So there's there's these hints,

(33:16):
there's these some, I call them kind of God's showing us things.
But anyway, so Kurt turns aroundand he's assaulted by two men.
Now they think there's maybe a third person.
They don't know the name of the person.
So I remove this person. They feel like this person they
didn't know that showed up with Dylan and this other guy.
He's assaulted and he is not necessarily knocked unconscious,

(33:40):
but he is being beaten up, kind of.
Question does he know all the people that are at the house?
Yes, pretty much, except possibly this 3rd random guy,
OK, but we focus on 2 killers. They start shooting him up with
heroin in front of two women that are there in the basement.
That's Bonnie and Jen. Now if the story, they're trying

(34:01):
to change certain things and people are going crazy.
Did they take him to the greenhouse and then shoot them
more there? They may have, but some of the
shooting, there's bruising, there's blood, like it's being
forced. OK.
This is in the autopsy. They witnessed this and that
woman had come forward to somebody a couple years ago and

(34:23):
I have proof of that from other people and herself.
I spoke to her too, OK. She is a hostile witness right
now. She's trying to retract what she
said few years ago. Joseph has decided to come
forward. He's on camera.
You can go on that. You you go to those sites.
I said you'll see it and he's telling the story.

(34:43):
You know, fucking as soon as I fucking went to the house and
stuff like all of a sudden hurtsright there, you know what I
mean? Like he said, hey, what's up
fucking and we're just bullshitting and stuff like
that. But it's like he was trying to
hide out a little bit, but he probably.
Just got high. He was getting high and then it
just went sour. I, I ran into him in the kitchen
because he came down to grab some stuff to eat or whatever,

(35:05):
you know, to take back up with him.
You know, he was hiding out where he was hiding out and
where was. He hiding.
Out up in the, I guess they callit a greenhouse.
I would just say it was like a lot of upstairs garage.
Some people think he was killed in the basement, so that's not
true. I wasn't right there when he got
killed. He got killed though.
He didn't commit suicide. He's a little burned out.

(35:28):
He's had a rough life. His karma is bad.
He lost an arm. He's a recovering addict.
He lives in his van. Oh, he lost it from use.
I think he says it's a car crashor a motorcycle crash.
OK, But what I'm saying is he isa man tortured.
And when you look at him, that'swhy I was trying to say, oh,
well, he's a Nazi. It's like, dude, just slow down.

(35:48):
Like just we're talking about Kurt's murder.
Yeah, Hey, I don't care what this guy puts the sticker on his
motorcycle and what tattoos he has.
It doesn't. These are the type of people
that hung in that scene, right? OK, if it's good enough for JoJo
Rabbit, let him display. It with TT can make millions of
dollars off that. Then Joe can tell his story and

(36:10):
be himself. And display it if he wants to
run his van. And his back pack.
Yeah. So he's assaulted and they begin
and what they say is the needlesare preloaded like it's already
planned. It's a hot dose.
Two big ass needles. These are not the needles found
in the cigar box. That's a staging.

(36:32):
The caps are on them. They're smaller needles.
Back on halfway. So he's getting all high and
he's let me wait. Hold on.
Yeah. 4 * A lethal dose. And then let me grab the gun and
you know, he's barely, he's got 1.5, 2 milligrams per liter of
heroin. People OD at .25 point 3.4, and
even if it's mixed with alcohol,they can die even lower.

(36:55):
OK, so he has 1.52. Think about that.
That. Five times the amount.
Yeah, five times the amount. That alone is what stops me from
believing that. He grabbed a shotgun and then
did all that and staged everything.
Tough, you know, unless he shot himself right after he injected.

(37:15):
Literally be like everything's sitting like OK and go like on a
stop clock and one like he's youknow, it's, it's possible.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not reality.
When he's moved to the greenhouse, the witness sees him
be walked. He's like out and they carry him
out. He witnesses it.

(37:36):
It's on tape. It's recorded him saying it
because I have it and the other people have them at the website.
They interviewed him too on thisone.
I've learned I want to use more people.
I don't want to get caught whereit's like me getting censored
and I have no help. That's what Kurt's Army's about.
It's about these other people. It's not Chris Todd.

(37:57):
We're all doing it. So they interviewed him too.
They have a 2 hour interview with him.
They've released most of it on YouTube and they're now
releasing the whole thing. So he's on tape saying it's a
little scattered because he's not the best witness, but but I
fight through that. I don't care about He's not the
solve. Solve is the evidence and all
the stuff that I know about all the other people that are there

(38:19):
from the books, the document, from what they've said over it's
a 30 years, you know how I do it.
It's not one guy, it's all of them.
So anyway, he's moved to the greenhouse.
About 30 to 40 minutes later, Joseph hears the gunshot.
So that's the beginning of the staging of the suicide.
OK, After that, we can go into that.

(38:39):
Those two guys that are with them, they are the most culpable
as being the killers of Kurt Cobain.
And do you think he was already dead before they shot him?
Someone's telling me they think he's dead.
There's some proof in the autopsy that he is dead and that
the the wound is post mortem. I do not know fully.
I have to be really honest. There's supposedly a small

(39:01):
amount of blood coming out of the ear and his head didn't blow
off. They say this, the pellets are
in his brain. They retrieve some of the the
bird shot. Yeah, but it's not a hole in his
head. Well, yeah, that's.
What they say the electrician went and showed up and he said
it looked like he had just gotten his hair done.
Like his hair was all intact. He was like he had beautiful
hair, right? That was the first thing he.
Remembered to talk about too is that somebody brushed his hair.

(39:24):
Oh fuck. Like they laid it, like it
displayed. Yeah, Now we don't have a photo
of it. I have someone that says they
do. They showed me it.
I don't know if it's real. We're trying to get it through a
FOIA right now. We want the pictures to see.
There is a photo where you see Kurt from the back where I think
you see the gun, but you don't see his face.
Oh, wow. We would like we put this out to

(39:45):
everybody. Send me the photo.
But it exists, right? It theoretically well the
police. Had all these photos they never
developed for years? Yes.
Which does that sound normal to you?
You know, we've heard about so many wacky murder investigations
at this point that nothing surprises me.
But yeah, you would think that they would hold on to these
photos. Especially a rock star.

(40:06):
It's like, yeah, they don't evendevelop.
This is such a huge case and they're just like, whatever, I
got lost, sorry. And not just any Rockstar.
It's not Shannon Hoon from BlindMelanie.
This is Kurt Cobain right episode.
And you're in Seattle. This is their thing.
Not only is there a ton of interest in it, but Kurt
continues to inspire today's youth, even, Yeah, it's that

(40:28):
huge of an icon. And yet they don't have the
photos of his death scene. You'll see Nirvana jumpsuit
shirts, T-shirts, the :). It's everywhere.
I've seen it at Walmart every. Everywhere it's still going,
'cause he's like Bob and Mark, he's like icons, of course,
anyway. But the staging now is going to
happen in the that same day. It's still going to happen.

(40:51):
Somebody dresses up like Kurt and goes and buys shotgun
shells. That's not Kurt.
Oh. So when you hear these
witnesses, we saw him at the diner, we think it's Callie
DeWitt. Hallie had the long hair and it
was dyed red. And they, these guys had all
damp hair. Oh, yeah.
And. Her style, like I had a friend
once that completely obsessed with Nirvana, Yeah.

(41:13):
And when he did his hair the right way, put on sunglasses.
And they're skinny in the clothes.
Yeah, it looked exactly like Kurt Cobain.
Wow, I could see somebody fakingit.
We believe that's Hallie DeWitt.Holy shit.
Now here's The funny thing. And this was going to relate.
Let's go into the evidence a little bit, 'cause this is the
key part. In the morning they want to go
buy shells. So they get a receipt and a box

(41:35):
of shells. I believe they already had
shells that was in that gun to shoot them at night.
There's already a shell there somehow, a 20 gauge shell.
Whether Dylan was given the shells for free because the
receipt's in his name. The gun receipt to the Remington
Model 11 is in Dylan Carlson's name.
Yeah, he gave it to him like right before.

(41:55):
Yeah, correct. I don't believe Kurt's at the
gun store at all. I think it's just Dylan.
They say there's somebody in theback.
Is that Renee Navarette? I don't know.
This was though later right? Like on the 3rd or 4th.
When they buy the gun is when Kurt's flying to LA, it's at the
same day. Oh, got it.
So it's before he died that theyfaked?
They say Kurt bought a gun before he got on an airplane,

(42:16):
like minutes before. All right, I see.
Which doesn't fly. And no pawn, but.
So Dylan Carlson's name's on thereceipt.
You can look it up. It's online.
It's in the files. Dylan buys that gun.
Why? See, this is a premeditation,
right? He makes up that story.
Oh, Kurt wanted to scare off thepeople that the stalkers were.
They took all his guns on that when Courtney called the cop.

(42:38):
Whatever. So in the morning, they want to
go buy shells and almost make itlook like Kurt's maybe alive.
Like something. You know what?
I don't know what they're thinking.
They're not Navy Seals. They're not mercs.
They're junkies and rockers. They're not thinking straight.
The gun store is closed, so he goes to a diner.
Get it? Then someone says I saw Kurt

(42:59):
Cobain at the diner. No, you did not.
That's not Kurt Cobain. Oh my gosh.
He gets the shells. He buys the shells.
They're yellow jackets, 20 gaugebrings them back in the paper
bag. They find the paper bag with the
shells by his shoe. Now watch at the crime scene, at
the supposed death scene. In Kurt's pocket is the receipt

(43:19):
to the gun in his pocket, and also at the feet is the receipt
in the bag to the shells. How many suicides do you know
where the suicide guy has a receipt to show you he bought
the gun and a receipt to show you he bought the shells?
They probably wouldn't care about holding down to the
receipt. Don't you know of any ever case
that anybody's ever heard of that?

(43:42):
Not at all. And a shout out to my boy who
helped me point that out. You know who you are.
Yeah. His airplane tickets in his
pocket. His wristband to the exodus is
on his wrist. Yeah, right.
These are all the things that are kind of showing that he just
dies right as he kind of gets. Home and didn't his.
Wasn't that his ID in his pocket?

(44:03):
But there was blood on it. It was, yeah.
The ID is pulled out. Yeah.
Like it's showing you who he is.It's like shown.
Yeah. It's in his wall.
It's like in a mess on the Yeah.Side What junkie has their ID?
Yeah, the ID is pulled out, too.Yeah.
And the needles have caps on them, and they're placed in the
box, you know, And there's a spoon.

(44:24):
There's no water there. So people say, like, where's the
water to cook it? I mean, I don't think that does
anything. But here's the main evidence of
the stages. There's no fingerprints on the
gun at all. Not his own fingerprints.
It's wiped down. There's no fingerprints on the
case, there's no fingerprints onthe shells, there's no
fingerprints on the red pen that's stabbed through the note

(44:45):
in the plant that's planted. Got it.
Yeah, pun intended on that one. And if I was the cops and you
were really doing a cover up, why not just say his
fingerprints are on the gun? Why not just say there's one,
right? So to me, I'm like, well, why
are OK, we we don't know, right?But they say, well, we didn't

(45:05):
find any fingerprints. He's holding the barrel like
this and he's got to shout the best part.
So how are there? It's wiped down.
Or do you think the cops were just so confounded by the whole
situation that they had nothing to do but basically cover up
just to not look like fools because they couldn't?
No, I don't know. And we can't really get into all

(45:25):
that because I they name it a suicide right away.
There's no toxicology report. They didn't even send it out
yet. There's no fingerprint analysis
back yet. Why are you saying it's a
suicide that fast? Yeah, you.
That's the. And they say beat cops.
This is something strange. Seattle said they had beat cops.
Their duty was to say if it's a suicide or not.

(45:48):
If they say it's a suicide, there's no need for the
detectives. That doesn't make a lot of
sense. Why do you have detectives?
They're saying they're giving the power to the beat cops.
Oh, it's a suicide. Yeah, guys, it looks like a
suicide. We get it.
He's. Holding the first of all.
The other thing I want to say too is he's found with it.
He's holding it and Tom Grant says it's a death clinch.

(46:10):
That's not true. People don't all seize up when
they die. They just, some of them just
fall. We've seen the video of Ronnie
Mcnutt, who blows his own head off with a shotgun.
I don't know if you've seen that, saw that It was on
Facebook Live. Oh, God.
And Facebook refused to take it down for, like, a month.
And this dude, his head becomes hamburger meat, Gary.
And yeah, he just goes completely limp, doesn't hold on

(46:31):
to the gun. Right at all.
And that's what I was saying is the way they find him is they
say he's sitting up OK, Mm hmm. But when he goes back, it should
release. That hand should come off, that
gun should fall to one of the sides.
And now the smack heads put the shell on the wrong side of the
ejection chamber. So the gun is upside down when

(46:53):
he's holding it. The shell supposed to be to his
right. They put it on his left.
Oh fuck. Those idiots.
So this is one of the this and Tom Grant bought this up.
So that's why we're giving him his his flowers and his kudos.
And just like on my other cases,you got to use what other people
did. They got a lot of access.

(47:15):
Well, it takes a lot to solve a mystery.
You know, it's not always like Agatha Christie.
I think it was Miss Scarlett. Like, it takes like a lot of
investigation. Yes.
And Tom Grant lived it. So you want to use he recorded
Rosemary Carroll, Courtney Love,he recorded other people and
took photos supposedly of the house when those guys were still

(47:35):
there. They stayed at the house.
The people they didn't leave. They were there for three more
days, shooting up, hanging out. I know it's crazy, man.
And they knew this body was there.
I'm telling you right now, they knew he was in there even if
they didn't see him. And Joe says, well, I heard the
shotgun. And if they could try to pretend
like I didn't know what we didn't know, maybe they fired.

(47:56):
They know he is dead in that greenhouse and they never say
anything for 30 years. I mean, heroin addicts are
notorious fucking scumbags. And what if Courtney Love
promises you free drugs for the rest of your life and buys you a
house? Oh yeah, deal done.
Because a guy had a house boughtfor him after Wow one of the
killers. This sounds like that.
You know, obviously all the dotsare connecting with so many

(48:19):
other cases. Yeah.
You remember that kid in Floridawho killed his parents on
ecstasy and then he threw the most killer party for all his
friends while his parents were up in the bedroom under a bed
sheet, bloody? This is like the heroin addicts.
They're just partying while KurtCobain's sitting there.
And don't forget, you might be getting an adrenaline rush kind

(48:41):
of like, you know, maybe shooting up is kind of boring.
And it's like you're drinking with your buddies and sometimes
so boring. It's a sausage party, right?
Well, isn't it kind of cool thatwe just killed the greatest rock
grunge rocker ever? Yeah, he's sitting over there.
Pretty cool. Wow, man, this is crazy.
Like. Yeah.
Right them like something to do.Let's do some drugs about it.

(49:02):
Yeah, that's what they mowed me up.
Again, man, this is this is crazy.
That's exactly it. The adrenaline.
That's what that kid in Florida did because there's a famous
selfie that he took with his best friend at that party.
Pointing. Out.
Yeah. Where this.
Yeah, like, look at how cool we are.
I just killed my parents so I could see a junkie being totally
delusional about it while they're high.

(49:22):
It's like they're getting off onthis.
Like, now the weird part, you would say if you play devil's
advocate, you would say, like, what if the cops show up?
Because now they they heard a gunshot and where's Kurt
Courtney does a missing persons report on Monday the 4th.
The 3rd is Easter. That's the day Tom Grandin
supposedly hired is on Easter out of the phone book.

(49:44):
OK, which is weird too, right? But my but.
They didn't use phone books moreback then.
So my point is like, I don't know what they're thinking of.
If you're staying in the house, why not Amscray?
Everybody get out, the killers get out, but everybody else
supposedly stays. They don't know reality while
they're that high, so I could see them not even occurring to
them that the cops would come. Possibly or because he's in the

(50:07):
greenhouse, he's separated from the house.
They could say. I don't know.
To me, every scenario it's bad. Like if the cops had shown up,
then what are they going to say?If if I was a policeman, you
guys look at this. I mean, it's almost like, I
don't want to say World War 2. And they showed him.
You guys see what you guys did and they walked the people
through the camps. Yeah.

(50:28):
It's kind of got that feel of like, guys, did you know your
friend? And I thought everybody was
looking for Kurt, right? Because Courtney says we're
looking for him. We're looking for him.
I called Callie. I called Dylan.
Why didn't you guys look in the greenhouse?
Yeah, well, that's what Tom saysis that he thinks Kelly do it
ran distraction and didn't show him the.
That's Dylan. Oh, sorry.

(50:49):
Yeah, yeah, Dylan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Refused to show him where Kurt actually was and didn't actually
take him to the garage. But let's now talk about that
real quick, and this will be good to kind of get closing to
it if you want. Why didn't Tom Grant look in the
greenhouse? It's right in front of his face
when you pull in the driveway you're staring at.
It Yeah, you're looking right atthe garage.
He said there was a light blinding him.

(51:11):
You know what we found out? There's no lights on it.
We got all the photos from 94. There are no lights.
Oh boy. He said it was raining and it
was dark. Hey Tom, it's night time.
It's dark. Yeah, it's Seattle.
It's raining. It's raining.
He lives right on the lake. And Dylan Carlson killed Kurt
Cobain. So do you think he's going to go
show you where his body is? Yeah.

(51:32):
And when Nick Brumfield interviewed him and he looked
off like this and he has all thepots on his face from being a
massive, strung out heroin addict.
If I thought somebody killed Kurt, I'd kill them.
This is the actual recording of Dylan and Tom Grant searching
for Kurt on April the 7th in themiddle of the night.
Can. You just open the door for me,

(51:57):
Kurt. Kurt.
Tom Grant believes Dylan deliberately avoided showing him
the greenhouse. I don't know what I think about
the whole murder conspiracy. Put it this way, if I seriously
thought Kurt had been murdered. If I thought Courtney was
involved or if I thought, you know something, they would be
dead now, flat out, I would killthem.
Well, that's easy to say, Dylan.Yeah, because there's nobody to

(52:18):
kill. Has he killed himself?
But you and your accomplice named Danny.
But I won't say his last name today.
His name is Danny, Dylan and Danny and their initials are
very similar to this goes to my mirror theory and Joseph's
middle name is Dylan. Mirror theory.
My mirror theory is when I see same names in cases, I see this

(52:40):
a lot. Natalie Wood, Doug Odin, Doug
Bombard and OJ Simpson, Ron Fishman, Ron Goldman, Ron
Phillips. There's these things that show
me like I call it the mirror theory.
OK, The initials are Dylan Carlson, DC.
The other killers is DCR. That's his initials.
Yeah. So I do things through feel and
symbols. I say this all the time.

(53:01):
I don't like DNAI hate it. DNA ruined Jon Benet's case and
helped killers get off by sayingthere's somebody's DNA.
What about the parents DNA? Oh, no, they live there.
Like Delphi. Yeah.
What about the guy whose yard you found the bodies in?
No, not him. Wait, isn't he on tape with a
voice analysis his body and his gait?

(53:22):
And he lied about where he was. And he made-up a fake alibi
about where he was. Well, isn't that?
And the girlfriend says he's a psycho.
Yeah, and hit her with a hammer and threatened to murder other
people. No, not him.
Couldn't have been him. But do you see my .0?
Yeah, it's not about DNA. What it's about is.
It's about feel. And what I usually use the word

(53:42):
is deception. If I feel you're being
deceptive, here we go. Until you say something.
If I was on either of you. Until you say something, that
OK, Mikey? Hey, He he didn't do it.
But if. If.
But everything you say is a lie.Like Courtney tricking Tom
Grant. I won't tell anyone.
You're going up there. What does she do?

(54:03):
Tells Callie he's coming up and he goes.
Why did you tell him? I thought I was going to start.
Well, I told Kelly he wasn't going to tell anyone.
What? Like, come on, man.
It's look, Tom Grant. I've challenged you to a debate.
You called me mentally ill on Facebook.
Oh boy. OK, I don't think you did any
research about who Chris Todd is.
You ever see Pulp Fiction when The GIMP comes out?

(54:25):
Yeah. Do you want the GIMP to come
out? Do you want to see that?
Yes or no, Tom Grant? Oh boy.
Actually, I'm asking you, Alejandro, do you want to see?
Do you want to wear my GIMP mask?
I'm good, OK, I'm good. Do the samurai sword.
Yeah, but my point. Is I'd rather hang with Ving

(54:46):
Rhames. Yeah, my point is I'm honored to
be here to talk about Kurt. Kurt's army is here.
Yeah, in spirit. It's a little strange with the
skeleton, but OK. Yeah, kind of fits, but.
I'm just saying, let's fight forKurt.
Yeah, he deserves better, quite frankly.
Justice and whether the cops reopen or not, they're probably
won't. It's a suicide.

(55:07):
It's a closed case. We have a FOIA request going in
for all the files because it's closed.
So they actually have to give itto us.
It's not open like OJ. When they reject you on the
FOIA, that's open because they don't really know what happened.
So Kurt had a child. He had this man.
We're talking. I said this before.
We're talking about his legacy. He was made the poster boy for

(55:28):
suicide. He was killed.
Yeah, and I will prove it. Well, that's what Tom Grant
always says if he can. Prove it.
And he didn't know who the real killers.
Were yeah, if he could prove it was a murder, it would help the
whole problem with suicide with today's youth.
Well, there were people that died cause of Kurt there.
There were copycats. Well, exactly, but.

(55:49):
So when it happened there were people, there were kids and
other adults who off them self. But also, you know, they
continued to, Yeah, idolize him.And they just did a thing in
Seattle at the Pop Museum or something where they said we're
thinking about changing the plaque to he unalived himself.
Oh yeah, guys, stop, dude. Like, it's gross.
Yeah. So anyway, look, I have other

(56:11):
interviews up. I'm happy to be here.
You guys can look it up. We're doing this for Kurt, for
his daughter, for his fans, for his family.
OK, Yeah. So thank you very much for
allowing me to talk today. What about the motive though?
I want to know. I just wrapped it up.
I just noticed. Go ahead, motive.
No, that was the last lingering thing.

(56:31):
That was the lingering question in my head.
What's the motive for these 8 junkies to plan this?
Murder. Say this as quickly as I can.
Ready as fast as I can. OK, there's multiple motives.
The first motive if you stay on the Courtney Love train is when
Kurt dies, who inherits all his music rights.
Of course, Courtney. Thank you.

(56:53):
She's a Billy. Doesn't quadruple it, like 5000%
an increase. Yeah.
OK, so who's who gets that Courtney motive?
One who had the suicide note, possibly.
Most likely Courtney. Did she give it to someone?
Leave it at the house. Joseph says he saw at the house
through someone showed him it, that Kurt didn't see it

(57:13):
necessarily. There's #1 #2 if you're promise
free drugs for the rest of your life and someone whispers to
you, get rid of them. He'd quit Lollapalooza, he quit
the European Tour. We just had an intervention with
Gold Mountain and Geffen. The shit that the money ships
going down, right? And you're a junkie and you'd

(57:34):
like some free brown, and you'rewhacked out of your mind.
And Kurt goes up to you. I need you to get the fuck out
of here. They snap.
It just happens. It's all coincides.
So there's a little premeditation.
I don't think they wanted everybody to be there.
I think they were waiting for everybody to leave.
Yeah. And it's on.
That's why Dylan brought the other guys, that they're like,

(57:56):
who is this? You see what I mean?
Yeah. So those are the main motives,
OK. And maybe we say maybe there's
not so much motive. Maybe it's a little spontaneous.
Yeah, Look, it's one of the strangest cases.
I'm going to go with you. I get it.
It's almost as weird as O JS. There's actually almost more
moving parts with the eight people than the two killers

(58:17):
there and the two victims there,right.
So if you have any other questions.
I think it's a good time for. Final.
Thoughts. Final.
And the sticker I brought for you from Kurtz Army.
Look at. This I gave you.
I'm giving you guys this shirt. Thank you.
And I know I'm going to catch a bunch of slack because I always

(58:38):
make fun of the true crime people when they sell merch,
right? And I say, oh, you're just
signing autographs and, you know, selling mugs.
So we're selling mugs and stickers and no, I'm just
kidding. I don't know.
I don't you. Can get a Kurt Cobain mug.
Wait, so is Kurt's army on boardthis?
Was not mine. Yeah, No, I know.
Oh. They're honored for me to be
here. They're on board with your oh,

(58:58):
absolutely what you're saying with Dylan and Danny.
Drove 1000 miles to sit with me and give me that.
Damn. Wow.
Because he he's a fan, yeah. He knew Kurt.
He's a good guy. And he runs the Kurt's Army
Facebook page. He's very open and he knows a
lot about that scene and he's heowns all this.
Yeah. Do you think that the same thing

(59:18):
would have happened eventually if he had not ran out of Exodus
and got on a flight and showed up at the wrong time?
Because Courtney, it seems like she was the architect of
everything. She wanted him.
Gone, if you remember Rome. Because he was, we haven't
talked about this yet, that he was threatening her with
divorce. He did.
Yes, he told Rosemary Mary Carroll, writer out of My Will.
Yes, exactly and. Then Courtney called like a day

(59:38):
or two later whenever and said find me the nastiest divorce
attorney in the world. So that is the driving force.
That shows you that. Now remember, Courtney had
talked about killing rock stars before younger really.
She yes, Oh shit, in her songs, in writings, she talked about
like I'll make you famous and I'll I'll off you.
And so there was something thereand all the people put that

(01:00:01):
together, right. She had done this to other
rockers like she would. She's trying to ride these fame,
so if he's going to divorce her and she's going to lose out on
the money and the fame and here he goes and the kid and the
issues. Now my point is the Rahibnol,
the overdose in Rome, they thinkthey tried to kill him there.
That wasn't him OD ING. Which they blamed on him having

(01:00:22):
a tummy ache. His stomach hurt, so he did it
to himself. Callie DeWitt was in Rome with
Courtney. Oh wow.
So they try to say that was the first attempt.
That makes sense, yeah, 'cause the main theory or the main?
Kurt woke up and he's like, what's up?
Like, he wasn't like, oh, I didn't do it.
I, you know, I I failed. Yeah.
They. That's why the doctor in Rome

(01:00:43):
even said it wasn't a suicide. Yeah.
This was some kind of massive poisoning.
Yeah, in a way. Yeah, they said they're like oh
you took too many pills cause your stomach hurt 'cause he had
like a bad. I think they crushed it up and
put it in his beer or his champagne.
They said wow damn and they findRohibnol in the house too, like
under the bed or somewhere in the house.

(01:01:04):
Yeah, which is like a what roofies are.
Kind of, yeah. It's a sleep.
I think it helps you sleep or relaxes you.
So look, there's a lot to it. We could follow up later when
things break more. Yeah, but I think we hit it as
close as I could do it with. Yeah, of course, without boring
you guys. No, no, that was fascinating.
Yeah, I think, I mean, clearly it's Courtney Love behind

(01:01:25):
everything that it was going to happen eventually anyway.
Yeah, that's the answer to your question.
Yeah. Would it have happened?
It looks like yes. Yeah, and back to the Barbara
Walters interview. The way she talks about him,
she's really trying to sell the theory that, oh, he was over all
the success and fame. Yeah, she was really trying to

(01:01:46):
drive that home. She drove that and saying his
family committed suicide, his uncle's or something.
Then they find out they didn't. That's not true.
They do uncle's thing, no? Accidental and like, yeah, look
it up. Wow.
Like those are not like that's what she craft, man.
She's a wizard. Yeah, or sorceress.
She crafted this thing, man. I'm serious.
She's brilliant. No, she's like OJ was brilliant.

(01:02:09):
She's not. I mean she is kind of dumb, but
she's like street smart. It's like sociopathic
Machiavelli. Yes, smart.
They said she had a puppy and she took the puppies leg and
broke it in half. Oh my God.
She didn't have that that gene to remorse.
Yeah, You see what I mean? She's like.
Sociopath. She was like.
You know she beat up like three other women, right?

(01:02:29):
Oh wow. She punched.
She attacked a woman on a couch with a with a, a, a whiskey
bottle, or. Whatever she.
She threatened to brain Lynn Hershberg with the trophy at the
either the Oscars or the Emmys or some weird story because she
wrote that she shot up while shewas pregnant.
They had to pull her off like she was going to beat the shit
out of. She was violent, Yeah.

(01:02:51):
OK, that dog thing makes me think of Kevin Spacey in House
of Cards. Yeah, just call her Francis
Underwood there. You go episode 1.
I love how you know all the names of the character.
Yeah, I guess that's your thing,right?
Yeah, you know. Borderline autism.
Wait, what? Excuse me?
All knowing details that. Alright, well then another

(01:03:12):
autistic thing. Is Christian Faf the basis for
Hull? There we go.
Died months after Kurt Cobain heroin overdose and was aged 27.
Whoa, was she 27? Yeah.
Really. So what?
And. Eric Erlinson was like the last
person to see her. And Eric Erlinson from Hull, he
actually went up to the house too, and was there and knew Kurt

(01:03:35):
was dead in the greenhouse too. So what?
That's weird. So Eric was at both of these
crime scenes almost. I believe Kristen Path was a
overdose by herself. I don't say she was killed, but
if you want to prove me wrong, you guys can prove me wrong.
You know, I don't have much of an opinion on it.
Challenge to the fans. But that's a big name.

(01:03:55):
They bring her name up a lot. Yeah, 'cause she did die.
They thought Kurt was with her alittle like that.
There was they. Oh, so it was kind of like
every. Cheating on?
Yeah, they thought, you know, and he had a drug dealer.
There was a female drug dealer. They Courtney said he's probably
sleeping with her. Go over there like sent Tom
Grant. He actually had them wear a wire

(01:04:16):
or something. It was Lanigan and Dylan and he
gave them money to go buy drugs.And also Tom Grant was working
as API out of the state he had jurisdiction in.
He had hired another guy, Barth,Eugene Barth I think is his
name. But he wasn't supposed to be
going through the house in Washington, so people pick him,

(01:04:36):
him apart with a lot of that, too.
Yeah. There's a whole thing with him,
yeah. Are all the witnesses or
accessories? They're all still alive.
Yes, except Jen Adamson. She died of a drug overdose.
Whoa. And I got a shocker for you.
Get that Doo Doo Doo or one of your where?
Get one of those. Jen Adamson died of a dirty

(01:05:00):
heroin shot in 2000, or an OD orwhatever you want to call it,
hotshot. And she's the sister of Macaulay
Culkin. Wow.
But her name was Adamson. But she's the daughter of Kit
Culkin, and her mom's name was not Adamson either, so I don't
know why she maybe she was an actress.

(01:05:21):
So I'm connecting more dots here.
It somehow relates to Richie Rich, which was released in
1994. Hashtag.
Autism's going, yeah. Now my autism's going bad.
But people like to use that to say she was Macaulay's half
sister, whatever you want to call it, different mothers.
But that's Kit Culkin's daughter.

(01:05:42):
So he had. And and and who sisters done
played Kurt Cobain in some strange music video.
You can look it up. What Yes, yes.
So there's a lot of there's likethis weird connection, but.
Yeah. I just found out I live around
the corner from the original pool.
That Nirvana. Nevermind the baby with the

(01:06:03):
penis. Oh, really?
Yeah, that was there. Right around the corner from my
place. He's still suing.
I think he is, yeah. I don't know if they threw it
out yet or not, but. That's one of the weirdest
lawsuits. It really.
Is Yeah, You showed my Dick to the world.
I'm gonna wanna cash in too. Yeah, he cashed in like 30 years
later. Whatever.
Showed my Dick when it's at its smallest.
And he was proud of it for yearsbefore the lawsuit, right?

(01:06:26):
You know, like he would do theseretrospectives and whatnot.
I will say it's a strange cover and.
Yeah, that, you know. Maybe they could have blurred
that. Yeah, it's iconic.
It's one of the biggest albums of all time.
I know. It really is.
I know, yeah. That's what everybody sees, your
penis at its smallest. Yeah, it's not like the poster
you want on your wall. Well, it is a baby, but.

(01:06:47):
Unless you're Jamie Lee Curtis or sometimes collects that kind
of art, but. That album sold, I think
25,000,000. It was diamond.
It was one of the top 20 yeah albums ever sold.
Yeah. It's crazy.
So it's insane. I had another question about
Cali. Yeah.
Did he go to Seattle after faking being at the gun store

(01:07:09):
and restaurant? That's villain.
Oh Oh no, Cali is still there atthe house.
Oh, that all happened in Seattle?
Yes, Yes. They scatter when Tom Grant's
coming up on Wednesday. These numbers are annoying.
The 6th, he flies up, but it clicks over to the 7th.
It's always clicking over, so they're scattered.
They're gone. When he comes to the house with

(01:07:29):
Dylan, Nobody's there. So they're gone by Wednesday.
They're there Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.
So could Cali have been the one that went to the bar and saw the
piano? Possibly.
Like maybe Kelly just wanted to see the piano.
Yeah. That I don't know that story
when you said the penis. Yeah.
When you guys talked about, whenyou talked about that, I don't

(01:07:52):
know, that story about Kurt going to the movies, yeah, there
was a story of him going to likeLinda's Tavern.
I actually talked to the guy. He said he never saw him there.
Oh, wow. I was actually invented.
Yeah, like they said that peoplesaw him.
And the girl said he had a birthday party and she saw him.
They yeah, she was full of shit.What are the odds would be her
birthday party? Kurt Cobain was, yeah.
Yeah, and he went by himself to go see the piano after that,

(01:08:13):
Yeah. Nobody did that.
They were dragged by their girlfriend to go see.
It. Yeah, exactly.
Gonna go see it by yourself. How depressing would that be?
Adrian Brody. No, the no, the one with Harvey
Keitel is Dick the piano and just you and Harvey Keitel.
Yeah, alone. Balls well.

(01:08:33):
What else we got? I had one more question but I
can't think of what it was. I think we should wrap up
Cobain, I think. Yeah, OK.
Well, that was awesome. Thank you for joining us.
This was. You heard it here.
First, enlightening and informative.
That's right, and a little bit sad.
Of course. I mean, when you're dealing with
someone that gets their head blown off.

(01:08:54):
Oh yeah, That was the thing thatshould have been to me after
seeing Ronnie Mcnutt shooting his head off and all the blood
that comes out of someone's headwhen they shoot themselves in
the head with a shotgun. Like you said, less blood than
would have been anticipated. And I know that personally
because my brother died in an accident where he huffed a lot
in his heart, stopped before he went and smashed his head.

(01:09:17):
He had a six inch gash on the back of his head.
No blood came out because his heart had stopped before he
actually hit his head. So that should have been looked
at to see there should have beenmore blood that came out of his.
And and and I thought his first interview, I had said his head
didn't get blown out that or I said it did and people went
crazy like he doesn't know the facts and I guess it didn't.

(01:09:41):
So the the bird shots in his brain, I don't know how if if.
Oh, so it was birdshot? Not even Buck.
It's a 20. It's it's there's like 200
pellets in there. They're tiny.
Yeah, it's birdshot, right? They call it.
Right. Yeah, Birdshot is like, it's the
least lethal of all these shots.Buckshot, would you?
That's that's Ronnie, not a. Problem.
Yeah, from what I'm getting at is like, I guess it didn't break

(01:10:05):
the skull so it stayed in. But to me that close in your
it's in his mouth, right? OK, that's where it's shot
through. Yeah.
And they think his teeth broke and somebody grabbed his teeth,
but we don't know if it's fully true story, but this is we have
someone saying this. So that shot is only going this
far, but I guess it didn't. So the blood came out of his

(01:10:26):
ear. OK, but we don't know how much
blood. We'd we'd like to see a photo of
that. And so those there's no photos
of him being dead with the. Shock, but not you see him from
the back like you don't see it like over him snap.
Wow. You see his body like parts him.
You don't see his face. Wow, and yet we have Ronnie

(01:10:47):
Mcnutt in full 1080HD. 4K. Yeah, that's crazy.
I'll have to watch that, of course.
If you want to scar yourself, I don't recommend anybody do it,
but if. You know what I watch and what's
in my phone? It's out there.
I avoided it for years. Kyle always told me about it
like Oh my God, it's you gotta see this but don't watch.

(01:11:08):
It it's fascinating. And then I finally had the
courage to watch it cause Kyle sent me a nice link to it.
Yeah, one night and I'm like, all right, here it goes.
Then I watched it like five times in a row.
Yeah, there you go. Because I was fascinated.
You could barely come. Well, you know.
His head exploded like a cherry pie.
Oh my God, that is, I might not have to.

(01:11:28):
Watch. Yeah, I mean, it's but it once
you see it though, it's just kind of like science class at
that point. Wow.
Like, OK, so that's what happens.
Yeah, well, thank you to everybody for listening this
week. We are back.
You will be hearing weekly episodes from here on out.
Alejandro and his angelic voice is back.
Oh yeah, long story, but let's just say whooping cough.

(01:11:49):
Yeah, we've had. Oh, really?
Yeah, I. Think it was whooping cough.
Yeah, my son has it now, so that's why I was a little late.
Oh wow. OK.
Yeah, Little. Summer boy, this is.
You're really bumming everybody out.
Hey, well, you know he didn't shoot his head off with a
shotgun, so away. Looking good.
Looking good. My voice is healing, so I'm very
happy to be back. You sound amazing and thank you
to Chris Todd for coming. Thank you guys.

(01:12:09):
Appreciate it. And until next time.
Don't go dying on us. You have just heard a true.
Hollywood. Murder mystery.
I have never seen anything like this before.
The movies, Broadway, music, television, all of it.
A place that manufacturers nightmares.
OK, everybody, that's a wrap. Good night, please drive home

(01:12:31):
carefully and come back again soon.