Episode Transcript
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Jim (00:01):
Hello and welcome to this episode of Decide on Joy, a
podcast coming to you fromHarmony Spiritual Center in Fort
Worth, Texas.
My name is Jim Covalt.
Pjae (00:11):
And I'm Rev.
Dr.
P.
J.
Stanley.
Welcome and thanks for coming.
Jim (00:15):
And this is a podcast about some basic stuff about new
thought spirituality and how toapply that in daily life,
although today's episode is moregeneral than that.
It's not really specific to newthought.
Pjae (00:28):
It's not.
It's a podcast.
Jim (00:29):
And the title is called Killing Words, Apologizing for
Past Hurts.
So why Killing Words?
What is that?
It's so,
Pjae (00:37):
it's so interesting because I, you know, you, you
think about things that, that,that someone has said.
And someone who's, over yourlife, like your parents, you
know and as much as I know thatmy parents love me, there's just
no doubt in my mind, there arethings that my mother said to me
and I had this conversation oncewith my sister as well, that she
said to my sister that stuckwith my sister, and it was like
(00:58):
a dagger to the heart.
And it's like a dagger to myheart.
And when I thought about thosewords, I, and she never, we
never got to talk about it.
I tried to bring it up one timeand she refused to talk about
it.
And then I, I thought, well,what dagger kinds of words to
the heart have I done to mydaughter or to people that I
care about?
So I, you know, just begin toreflect on that.
(01:19):
And it's a, you know, it, itseems like a small thing, but it
actually is a big thing.
It's actually a big thing.
And so these, these words arejust that my mom did to her nose
loves me just because of herinability to talk to me about
it.
And so that I could just expressand just let that go, then just
ends up going further into myheart,
Jim (01:39):
you
Pjae (01:39):
know, and so they're killing words.
Jim (01:41):
There was another side to that, though, too, isn't there?
Did you let her know that
Pjae (01:49):
You know, yeah, I let her know as an adult, you know when
you when you're a kid andsomething happens You know
because they're telling you I'mtelling my mom what's going on
at the time.
It's happening and she's tellingme to shut up You know and so
okay, so you're shutting upbecause it's your parent but
later on And it really affectedme in a, in a negative way.
And later on, I wanted to talkto her about it.
(02:09):
But I believe, and this is justme because she never talked
about it.
I believe she was embarrassedabout what happened.
And she, if I remember, sheremembers.
So I believe, I don't think thatshe didn't remember that.
She just didn't want to believethat she hurt me in that way.
I know that I don't want tobelieve that I hurt my daughter
as much as I care for her.
But I have to own that.
(02:29):
In fact, I did.
I didn't intentionally do it,but I did.
And so so yeah, to your questionwas, yeah, I, I didn't talk to
her at that time, but I did tryto talk with about it later.
And she didn't want to talk tome about it.
Jim (02:43):
Yeah.
I mean, it's something it's mybackground in theater.
I had to constantly try and beaware of, anyway, as a director,
how to say things to people andall.
And you never know what's goingto happen.
Pjae (02:57):
You don't.
You don't.
Jim (02:59):
And I can think of at least one instance where years after
the fact, someone said that theyhad been so disturbed by
something I had said to themthat they had to talk to their
therapist about it years later.
Pjae (03:14):
You sent them to the couch.
Jim (03:15):
I know, right?
Pjae (03:17):
Wow.
Jim (03:18):
And the thing is, I would never have known that because
actually even when they saidthat I was like, yeah, okay.
Come on.
So as far as my apology was,well, I recall it differently,
but I'm sorry it affected youthat way.
Yeah, but yeah, but I, what I'dsaid was not, you know so it's
(03:39):
tricky, you don't know.
Pjae (03:41):
It is, it is tricky.
And, and you know, this in newthought, what we talk about is,
you know, what's yours to do?
What are you responsible for?
Right.
And so I'm not necessarilyresponsible for how people take
things.
I'm not responsible for that.
However, if I'm in arelationship with someone and
they I did say something to themand they come to me and say,
(04:02):
listen, I you said this and thisis how I took it.
That gives me an opportunity tosay, Oh, I apologize.
That's not what I meant.
Here's what I meant.
So if we keep the, if we keepthe lines open, then, you know,
the hurt didn't have to go onfor years.
It could be healed and itdoesn't have to even be a hurt,
but, but, but amisunderstanding, you know, of
what your intentions were.
(04:22):
You know what I mean?
And I'm certainly as a, as a, asa director, you know, you're
trying to get things moving.
You don't have a whole lot oftime to be, you know, nurturing
people through a particularthing.
I need you to get off that spotand get on that spot.
You don't have a lot of time.
So, you know, I can, I canimagine that would set up a lot
of possible hurt feelings forsomeone.
Jim (04:40):
Yeah you have to find the tactful way to say it.
I think maybe we should take adifferent direction here.
Pjae (04:45):
Have you looked at, think about.
Let's have another direction.
What are you thinking?
What do you think of another, ifyou could think of something
else, what would that be?
Yeah exactly.
Yes.
Jim (04:55):
And it does, to, to, to, to, to.
Initiate that as the person whointends to apologize anyway, it
does take a certain amount ofcourage or, or, you know, okay,
I'm going to
Pjae (05:08):
Exactly.
You have to be self surety.
You have to be sure of yourself.
You you, I know, I know what myintentions are.
We talk about this all the time.
You know, when I look at my topvalues unconditional love is top
for me.
So I know my intention.
Is to see good, to see God, tosee beyond someone's behavior
(05:30):
into who they actually are.
Which I think is a great person.
So, so I know that.
So I know that about me.
I know that's my intention.
So if you, I said something andI know that I can be abrupt.
I mean, I used to another yeah,well, I used to have a band and
you know, you got to get them onthe stage, you got to pop the
stage, it's much like adirector, you got to get them on
(05:50):
and off.
And so my band called me AbruptPJ.
That was, That's what they callme because I don't want to talk
about it.
We can talk about it later.
If you're feeling hurt, you cantalk about it later in the car.
Right now, get up and get off.
Let's get, you know, so I knowthat I can be abrupt.
I have no problem with owningthat.
I also am sure enough aboutmyself and my intentions that if
(06:11):
you come to me and you say, Hey,I want to talk about something,
I want to hear it.
I want to hear it, particularlyif I want a relationship with
you.
Now, if I'm not interestednecessarily in a very deep
relationship, I'm still going tobe kind.
I'm not really sure how much ofmy interest is in hearing what
you have to say simply becausewe don't really have a
(06:32):
relationship.
But if we have one, I'mdefinitely going to Be be
interested in hearing what youhave to say and really hearing
you from the heart not Listeningso that you stop and I can
defend myself Actuallylistening, you know and hearing
what my part in it and how I canhow I can help this relationship
move forward That's myintention, right?
(06:55):
So I think that's a big deal.
What is your intention to beginwith?
What's your intention?
Jim (06:59):
Sure.
Yeah, right
Pjae (07:00):
and everything.
What's your intention?
Right?
Yeah
Jim (07:04):
and that's that's a situation where maybe The, the
offended person has, hasintroduced the topic.
It seems like it's maybe evenharder if you are on the other
side of it, and you think, okay,I know That I did this and it
wasn't good in retrospect.
Yes, and to bring it up,although it's been lying there
(07:26):
peacefully
Pjae (07:28):
Underground Right, you know, I mean then we it's been
laying there, but it hasn'tpeaceful.
Yeah, you know not even for me.
So yes you know when I startedthinking about Things that my
mom had said and my, my, mysister told me about, my baby
sister was telling me somethings that my mom said to her
that she still holds now and soI started reflecting on myself
(07:50):
as a mom, what are some of thethings that I said to my
daughter, and I remember aparticularly unique experience
She and I were traveling and wewere going to see her brother
graduate.
He wasn't living with us at thetime.
He was living with his fatherand and we were traveling to to
Colorado.
And, you know, I'm just in myown feelings at the time.
You know, and I'm, I'm drivingwhen I could have flown.
(08:11):
But I'm driving because shecan't afford to fly.
My mother can't afford to fly.
A lot of people want to go.
So I thought, you know, let'sjust hop in the van and let's
just drive.
From California to Colorado.
So I'm driving.
I'm feeling nobody's sharingtheir drive, right?
I'm just so you know, I'mfeeling sorry for myself and all
this and and then my daughterbrings up She tells me in the
middle of that drive thatSometimes she doesn't know
(08:34):
whether I love her or not Well,that was a dagger to my heart,
because number one I'm in thecar driving, okay?
Jim (08:41):
Not the ideal time to Okay, not really,
Pjae (08:43):
not really the great, great time.
Those
Jim (08:45):
of you who are seeking apologies, don't do it in the
middle of a drive to Colorado.
Pjae (08:49):
Okay, don't do that.
That's not, that's not a goodplace to do it.
If the other person's driving.
Okay, don't do it.
Don't do it.
That's number one.
And number two is that, andmaybe she didn't know this.
But she is the love of my life.
She was my first child.
I was a teen mother.
She saved my life.
She really did because when shecame it made me, it made me grow
(09:11):
up fast because of her.
And so, so, and when I, her nameis Michelle Angelique.
Honestly, it seems crazy.
But because because she was anangel.
I felt like she was an angel.
So how much love I have for heris, is amazing to me.
And that she would sit there andsay, sometimes I don't know if
you love me.
And so I just shut it down.
(09:32):
I said, I don't even know whatyou're talking about.
I don't even know what you'retalking about.
And I just wouldn't even let hertalk.
Well, clearly there wassomething that had gone on that
she didn't know whether I lovedher or not, but I wasn't in the
place to hear it for a longtime.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until she was anadult, and my, I think this past
(09:53):
year, actually, that we weretogether, and we, that
conversation came up in my mind,and I brought it up, and I said,
I don't know if you rememberthis or not, you know, but when
we were going to Colorado, andshe finished it before me, she
goes, oh yeah, I remember.
So, just cause you're nottalking about it.
Jim (10:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Doesn't
Pjae (10:10):
mean it's not laying there like a dead fish.
Yeah.
Okay?
Yeah.
Jim (10:17):
And it can, it can really repair things.
It
Pjae (10:22):
really can.
It really does.
It gives a person, first of all,The ability to speak on
something she wanted to speak onyears ago.
So to validate the fact that shewanted to talk and now I'm here
to listen and that she waswilling to tell me about It at
that time.
Well, you know years later.
She was still going to talkabout it So good for her for
being able to do that.
(10:43):
Secondly, I validated the factthat I screwed up and I want to
hear you now And she was able totell me then So it was it's just
really great for the for the twoof us And it was not at all what
I thought it was about it wasabout something completely
different that I was I wasunaware of something that
happened in our family I wasn'taware of that.
She was trying to tell me and soI really really felt bad about
(11:05):
that So now i'm thinking okay,so she's a teenager.
She couldn't even come tell mesomething She couldn't come tell
me that was really deep on herheart.
So that was Really piercing forme and for her for both of us
and what I But she had to gothrough, because I wouldn't
listen.
You know, it's a growingexperience, but it just revealed
a lot.
Jim (11:23):
Yeah.
And you can, you know, I mean,obviously, she could have and
may have herself gone back andthought about that and, and
dealt with it, but it certainlyhelps if the other side of the
situation gets involved andsays, yes, that is true.
(11:45):
And
Pjae (11:46):
I did happen and I apologize.
There are many conversationsthat I've had with my mom that
I've straightened out of my ownhead because she's no longer
here.
I can't.
Right.
And so that's just me doing thatand getting comfortable with my
own self.
Right.
To have heard it from her wouldhave been great.
Yeah.
Jim (12:02):
And, I, ideally, I suppose, it would also, Maybe, depending
on the situation, you couldlearn from that and say, okay,
dealing with this differently inthe future.
I mean, that's kind of, in thatexample, exactly, maybe, because
(12:23):
that situation isn't going torepeat.
Pjae (12:25):
It's not going to repeat.
But.
But, but what, what could havehappened is that, well, I
wasn't, she wasn't able toapproach me then, could have
tried it again.
Another time, right?
You know what I mean?
And so for her and her mind andour relationship that door was
closed It didn't feel it wasclosed on that trip just because
of where I was she didn't knowthat she's she's a couch She's a
(12:46):
child.
Yeah the mom it's closed.
I said no talking.
It's closed It's like my momtold me, you know, stop stop
being stupid or whatever.
She told me I came in with whatit was I told her the truth.
It was really having to stopbeing a baby.
That's what it was.
She's stopping a baby and AndAnd so, I stopped talking.
I never said anything else.
Jim (13:03):
I stopped talking.
Pjae (13:04):
That's what we do.
That's what kids hear.
You
Jim (13:05):
stopped talking?
Pjae (13:06):
Can you believe that?
Jim (13:08):
I
Pjae (13:08):
know.
Jim (13:09):
That's serious.
Woo! And there may also be, youknow, things You might need to
apologize for the omission ofthem.
I mean, like, things That wasn'tsaid.
Yes, exactly.
Or things that you never talkedabout.
Although perhaps they shouldhave been, you know.
(13:31):
All of this is sounding likeit's stuff from the distant
past, but it doesn't have to be.
No,
Pjae (13:34):
it's, you know, it's it's, there's no, there's no time
frame.
If there's something on yourheart To talk about with someone
else.
It's probably on their heart aswell It probably is and You said
it earlier.
It takes courage So sometimes wethink well i'm going to let
sleeping dogs lie, but they'renot sleeping They're not And so
(13:57):
have the courage to just say Iwas thinking about this
conversation.
We had a few years back Do youremember and see what they say
if they don't remember maybe itit is just you You But if they
do, then maybe it's worth aconversation,
Jim (14:12):
if it's been on your heart.
And it could even be, you know,I've been thinking about that
conversation we had yesterday.
Yes!
Pjae (14:19):
Yes! And I
Jim (14:19):
realized that I didn't I didn't understand what you were
saying, or whatever.
Whatever
Pjae (14:24):
it was.
I didn't allow you to speak.
I wasn't really clear.
I was tired.
Like, can we come back to theconversation because I really do
want to hear from you.
This, this, yeah.
It's not too early.
Not too late.
Yeah.
Just go back to it.
Jim (14:36):
Yeah.
Pjae (14:36):
Yeah.
Go back to it.
That's all.
Killing words don't have to,don't have to kill ya.
They can just be hurting words.
Not killing words.
They get, they become killingwords when you don't readdress
them.
Jim (14:46):
Exactly.
Yes.
They're
Pjae (14:47):
just herding words until then.
Jim (14:49):
Yes.
Like the sleeping dogs can keepgnawing at you.
Pjae (14:55):
Just nip, nip, nip it.
Exactly.
Okay.
Yeah.
Jim (15:02):
Is that a good place to stop?
I think so.
I mean, I think we've, I thinkwe've gone
Pjae (15:05):
on.
I think we understand.
It's just, okay.
Good to talk.
Jim (15:08):
Excellent.
Thanks for being here, everyone.
And we'll see you next time.
Pjae (15:13):
Yes.
Hello and welcome to this episode of Decide on Joy, a
podcast coming to you fromHarmony Spiritual Center in Fort
Worth, Texas.
My name is Jim Covalt.
Pjae (00:11):
And I'm Rev.
Dr.
P.
J.
Stanley.
Welcome and thanks for coming.
Jim (00:15):
And this is a podcast about some basic stuff about new
thought spirituality and how toapply that in daily life,
although today's episode is moregeneral than that.
It's not really specific to newthought.
Pjae (00:28):
It's not.
It's a podcast.
Jim (00:29):
And the title is called Killing Words, Apologizing for
Past Hurts.
So why Killing Words?
What is that?
It's so,
Pjae (00:37):
it's so interesting because I, you know, you, you
think about things that, that,that someone has said.
And someone who's, over yourlife, like your parents, you
know and as much as I know thatmy parents love me, there's just
no doubt in my mind, there arethings that my mother said to me
and I had this conversation oncewith my sister as well, that she
said to my sister that stuckwith my sister, and it was like
(00:58):
a dagger to the heart.
And it's like a dagger to myheart.
And when I thought about thosewords, I, and she never, we
never got to talk about it.
I tried to bring it up one timeand she refused to talk about
it.
And then I, I thought, well,what dagger kinds of words to
the heart have I done to mydaughter or to people that I
care about?
So I, you know, just begin toreflect on that.
(01:19):
And it's a, you know, it, itseems like a small thing, but it
actually is a big thing.
It's actually a big thing.
And so these, these words arejust that my mom did to her nose
loves me just because of herinability to talk to me about
it.
And so that I could just expressand just let that go, then just
ends up going further into myheart,
Jim (01:39):
you
Pjae (01:39):
know, and so they're killing words.
Jim (01:41):
There was another side to that, though, too, isn't there?
Did you let her know that
Pjae (01:49):
You know, yeah, I let her know as an adult, you know when
you when you're a kid andsomething happens You know
because they're telling you I'mtelling my mom what's going on
at the time.
It's happening and she's tellingme to shut up You know and so
okay, so you're shutting upbecause it's your parent but
later on And it really affectedme in a, in a negative way.
And later on, I wanted to talkto her about it.
(02:09):
But I believe, and this is justme because she never talked
about it.
I believe she was embarrassedabout what happened.
And she, if I remember, sheremembers.
So I believe, I don't think thatshe didn't remember that.
She just didn't want to believethat she hurt me in that way.
I know that I don't want tobelieve that I hurt my daughter
as much as I care for her.
But I have to own that.
(02:29):
In fact, I did.
I didn't intentionally do it,but I did.
And so so yeah, to your questionwas, yeah, I, I didn't talk to
her at that time, but I did tryto talk with about it later.
And she didn't want to talk tome about it.
Jim (02:43):
Yeah.
I mean, it's something it's mybackground in theater.
I had to constantly try and beaware of, anyway, as a director,
how to say things to people andall.
And you never know what's goingto happen.
Pjae (02:57):
You don't.
You don't.
Jim (02:59):
And I can think of at least one instance where years after
the fact, someone said that theyhad been so disturbed by
something I had said to themthat they had to talk to their
therapist about it years later.
Pjae (03:14):
You sent them to the couch.
Jim (03:15):
I know, right?
Pjae (03:17):
Wow.
Jim (03:18):
And the thing is, I would never have known that because
actually even when they saidthat I was like, yeah, okay.
Come on.
So as far as my apology was,well, I recall it differently,
but I'm sorry it affected youthat way.
Yeah, but yeah, but I, what I'dsaid was not, you know so it's
(03:39):
tricky, you don't know.
Pjae (03:41):
It is, it is tricky.
And, and you know, this in newthought, what we talk about is,
you know, what's yours to do?
What are you responsible for?
Right.
And so I'm not necessarilyresponsible for how people take
things.
I'm not responsible for that.
However, if I'm in arelationship with someone and
they I did say something to themand they come to me and say,
(04:02):
listen, I you said this and thisis how I took it.
That gives me an opportunity tosay, Oh, I apologize.
That's not what I meant.
Here's what I meant.
So if we keep the, if we keepthe lines open, then, you know,
the hurt didn't have to go onfor years.
It could be healed and itdoesn't have to even be a hurt,
but, but, but amisunderstanding, you know, of
what your intentions were.
(04:22):
You know what I mean?
And I'm certainly as a, as a, asa director, you know, you're
trying to get things moving.
You don't have a whole lot oftime to be, you know, nurturing
people through a particularthing.
I need you to get off that spotand get on that spot.
You don't have a lot of time.
So, you know, I can, I canimagine that would set up a lot
of possible hurt feelings forsomeone.
Jim (04:40):
Yeah you have to find the tactful way to say it.
I think maybe we should take adifferent direction here.
Pjae (04:45):
Have you looked at, think about.
Let's have another direction.
What are you thinking?
What do you think of another, ifyou could think of something
else, what would that be?
Yeah exactly.
Yes.
Jim (04:55):
And it does, to, to, to, to, to.
Initiate that as the person whointends to apologize anyway, it
does take a certain amount ofcourage or, or, you know, okay,
I'm going to
Pjae (05:08):
Exactly.
You have to be self surety.
You have to be sure of yourself.
You you, I know, I know what myintentions are.
We talk about this all the time.
You know, when I look at my topvalues unconditional love is top
for me.
So I know my intention.
Is to see good, to see God, tosee beyond someone's behavior
(05:30):
into who they actually are.
Which I think is a great person.
So, so I know that.
So I know that about me.
I know that's my intention.
So if you, I said something andI know that I can be abrupt.
I mean, I used to another yeah,well, I used to have a band and
you know, you got to get them onthe stage, you got to pop the
stage, it's much like adirector, you got to get them on
(05:50):
and off.
And so my band called me AbruptPJ.
That was, That's what they callme because I don't want to talk
about it.
We can talk about it later.
If you're feeling hurt, you cantalk about it later in the car.
Right now, get up and get off.
Let's get, you know, so I knowthat I can be abrupt.
I have no problem with owningthat.
I also am sure enough aboutmyself and my intentions that if
(06:11):
you come to me and you say, Hey,I want to talk about something,
I want to hear it.
I want to hear it, particularlyif I want a relationship with
you.
Now, if I'm not interestednecessarily in a very deep
relationship, I'm still going tobe kind.
I'm not really sure how much ofmy interest is in hearing what
you have to say simply becausewe don't really have a
(06:32):
relationship.
But if we have one, I'mdefinitely going to Be be
interested in hearing what youhave to say and really hearing
you from the heart not Listeningso that you stop and I can
defend myself Actuallylistening, you know and hearing
what my part in it and how I canhow I can help this relationship
move forward That's myintention, right?
(06:55):
So I think that's a big deal.
What is your intention to beginwith?
What's your intention?
Jim (06:59):
Sure.
Yeah, right
Pjae (07:00):
and everything.
What's your intention?
Right?
Yeah
Jim (07:04):
and that's that's a situation where maybe The, the
offended person has, hasintroduced the topic.
It seems like it's maybe evenharder if you are on the other
side of it, and you think, okay,I know That I did this and it
wasn't good in retrospect.
Yes, and to bring it up,although it's been lying there
(07:26):
peacefully
Pjae (07:28):
Underground Right, you know, I mean then we it's been
laying there, but it hasn'tpeaceful.
Yeah, you know not even for me.
So yes you know when I startedthinking about Things that my
mom had said and my, my, mysister told me about, my baby
sister was telling me somethings that my mom said to her
that she still holds now and soI started reflecting on myself
(07:50):
as a mom, what are some of thethings that I said to my
daughter, and I remember aparticularly unique experience
She and I were traveling and wewere going to see her brother
graduate.
He wasn't living with us at thetime.
He was living with his fatherand and we were traveling to to
Colorado.
And, you know, I'm just in myown feelings at the time.
You know, and I'm, I'm drivingwhen I could have flown.
(08:11):
But I'm driving because shecan't afford to fly.
My mother can't afford to fly.
A lot of people want to go.
So I thought, you know, let'sjust hop in the van and let's
just drive.
From California to Colorado.
So I'm driving.
I'm feeling nobody's sharingtheir drive, right?
I'm just so you know, I'mfeeling sorry for myself and all
this and and then my daughterbrings up She tells me in the
middle of that drive thatSometimes she doesn't know
(08:34):
whether I love her or not Well,that was a dagger to my heart,
because number one I'm in thecar driving, okay?
Jim (08:41):
Not the ideal time to Okay, not really,
Pjae (08:43):
not really the great, great time.
Those
Jim (08:45):
of you who are seeking apologies, don't do it in the
middle of a drive to Colorado.
Pjae (08:49):
Okay, don't do that.
That's not, that's not a goodplace to do it.
If the other person's driving.
Okay, don't do it.
Don't do it.
That's number one.
And number two is that, andmaybe she didn't know this.
But she is the love of my life.
She was my first child.
I was a teen mother.
She saved my life.
She really did because when shecame it made me, it made me grow
(09:11):
up fast because of her.
And so, so, and when I, her nameis Michelle Angelique.
Honestly, it seems crazy.
But because because she was anangel.
I felt like she was an angel.
So how much love I have for heris, is amazing to me.
And that she would sit there andsay, sometimes I don't know if
you love me.
And so I just shut it down.
(09:32):
I said, I don't even know whatyou're talking about.
I don't even know what you'retalking about.
And I just wouldn't even let hertalk.
Well, clearly there wassomething that had gone on that
she didn't know whether I lovedher or not, but I wasn't in the
place to hear it for a longtime.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until she was anadult, and my, I think this past
(09:53):
year, actually, that we weretogether, and we, that
conversation came up in my mind,and I brought it up, and I said,
I don't know if you rememberthis or not, you know, but when
we were going to Colorado, andshe finished it before me, she
goes, oh yeah, I remember.
So, just cause you're nottalking about it.
Jim (10:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Doesn't
Pjae (10:10):
mean it's not laying there like a dead fish.
Yeah.
Okay?
Yeah.
Jim (10:17):
And it can, it can really repair things.
It
Pjae (10:22):
really can.
It really does.
It gives a person, first of all,The ability to speak on
something she wanted to speak onyears ago.
So to validate the fact that shewanted to talk and now I'm here
to listen and that she waswilling to tell me about It at
that time.
Well, you know years later.
She was still going to talkabout it So good for her for
being able to do that.
(10:43):
Secondly, I validated the factthat I screwed up and I want to
hear you now And she was able totell me then So it was it's just
really great for the for the twoof us And it was not at all what
I thought it was about it wasabout something completely
different that I was I wasunaware of something that
happened in our family I wasn'taware of that.
She was trying to tell me and soI really really felt bad about
(11:05):
that So now i'm thinking okay,so she's a teenager.
She couldn't even come tell mesomething She couldn't come tell
me that was really deep on herheart.
So that was Really piercing forme and for her for both of us
and what I But she had to gothrough, because I wouldn't
listen.
You know, it's a growingexperience, but it just revealed
a lot.
Jim (11:23):
Yeah.
And you can, you know, I mean,obviously, she could have and
may have herself gone back andthought about that and, and
dealt with it, but it certainlyhelps if the other side of the
situation gets involved andsays, yes, that is true.
(11:45):
And
Pjae (11:46):
I did happen and I apologize.
There are many conversationsthat I've had with my mom that
I've straightened out of my ownhead because she's no longer
here.
I can't.
Right.
And so that's just me doing thatand getting comfortable with my
own self.
Right.
To have heard it from her wouldhave been great.
Yeah.
Jim (12:02):
And, I, ideally, I suppose, it would also, Maybe, depending
on the situation, you couldlearn from that and say, okay,
dealing with this differently inthe future.
I mean, that's kind of, in thatexample, exactly, maybe, because
(12:23):
that situation isn't going torepeat.
Pjae (12:25):
It's not going to repeat.
But.
But, but what, what could havehappened is that, well, I
wasn't, she wasn't able toapproach me then, could have
tried it again.
Another time, right?
You know what I mean?
And so for her and her mind andour relationship that door was
closed It didn't feel it wasclosed on that trip just because
of where I was she didn't knowthat she's she's a couch She's a
(12:46):
child.
Yeah the mom it's closed.
I said no talking.
It's closed It's like my momtold me, you know, stop stop
being stupid or whatever.
She told me I came in with whatit was I told her the truth.
It was really having to stopbeing a baby.
That's what it was.
She's stopping a baby and AndAnd so, I stopped talking.
I never said anything else.
Jim (13:03):
I stopped talking.
Pjae (13:04):
That's what we do.
That's what kids hear.
You
Jim (13:05):
stopped talking?
Pjae (13:06):
Can you believe that?
Jim (13:08):
I
Pjae (13:08):
know.
Jim (13:09):
That's serious.
Woo! And there may also be, youknow, things You might need to
apologize for the omission ofthem.
I mean, like, things That wasn'tsaid.
Yes, exactly.
Or things that you never talkedabout.
Although perhaps they shouldhave been, you know.
(13:31):
All of this is sounding likeit's stuff from the distant
past, but it doesn't have to be.
No,
Pjae (13:34):
it's, you know, it's it's, there's no, there's no time
frame.
If there's something on yourheart To talk about with someone
else.
It's probably on their heart aswell It probably is and You said
it earlier.
It takes courage So sometimes wethink well i'm going to let
sleeping dogs lie, but they'renot sleeping They're not And so
(13:57):
have the courage to just say Iwas thinking about this
conversation.
We had a few years back Do youremember and see what they say
if they don't remember maybe itit is just you You But if they
do, then maybe it's worth aconversation,
Jim (14:12):
if it's been on your heart.
And it could even be, you know,I've been thinking about that
conversation we had yesterday.
Yes!
Pjae (14:19):
Yes! And I
Jim (14:19):
realized that I didn't I didn't understand what you were
saying, or whatever.
Whatever
Pjae (14:24):
it was.
I didn't allow you to speak.
I wasn't really clear.
I was tired.
Like, can we come back to theconversation because I really do
want to hear from you.
This, this, yeah.
It's not too early.
Not too late.
Yeah.
Just go back to it.
Jim (14:36):
Yeah.
Pjae (14:36):
Yeah.
Go back to it.
That's all.
Killing words don't have to,don't have to kill ya.
They can just be hurting words.
Not killing words.
They get, they become killingwords when you don't readdress
them.
Jim (14:46):
Exactly.
Yes.
They're
Pjae (14:47):
just herding words until then.
Jim (14:49):
Yes.
Like the sleeping dogs can keepgnawing at you.
Pjae (14:55):
Just nip, nip, nip it.
Exactly.
Okay.
Yeah.
Jim (15:02):
Is that a good place to stop?
I think so.
I mean, I think we've, I thinkwe've gone
Pjae (15:05):
on.
I think we understand.
It's just, okay.
Good to talk.
Jim (15:08):
Excellent.
Thanks for being here, everyone.
And we'll see you next time.
Pjae (15:13):
Yes.
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