Dr. Kelley Reis: Challenging Conventional Medicine: Mammograms vs Thermography and the Pursuit of Holistic Wellness

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Discover the fascinating world of alternative health practices with our guest, Dr. Kelly Reese, a board-certified naturopathic physician and functional wellness expert. Dr. Kelly challenges conventional medicine, advocating for thermography as a promising alternative to the traditional mammogram. Join us as we uncover the intricacies of this method, which not only detects inflammation but also offers insights into health issues that often go unnoticed with standard medical examinations.

Dr. Kelly's journey from pursuing a master's in zoology to becoming a pioneering force in naturopathy is nothing short of inspiring. Her transition from Portland to rural Florida, navigating the regulatory landscape, and embracing a self-sufficient lifestyle, paints a vivid picture of determination and passion for patient-centered care. Learn how she transformed her practice into a Private Membership Association, a bold move to protect her clients and herself from governmental oversight.

Stand up for your health decisions confidently and build a wellness team aligning with your values. Dr. Kelly shares the power of combining emotional, mental, and spiritual components into healing, highlighting the importance of health coaches and a supportive network. Whether you're curious about thermography or seeking a holistic approach to wellness, this episode offers fresh perspectives and practical insights. Prepare to be enlightened and inspired to take control of your health journey.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• Documentary - The Breast Kept Secret
• JAMA 10-year study on Mammograms
• Dr. Mercola on Mammograms
• Dr Kelley Reis on Instagram
• Dr Kelley's Thermography Practice
• Dr Kelley's Naturopathy Practice

Reverse Any Chronic Health Condition in Three Steps - The Simplest Path to Healing You've Ever Seen

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NEED TO DETOX AND HEAL?

• Visit our website
• Compare our Detox Programs
• See our recommended products
• Download the Healing United PMA App
• Reverse Any Chronic Illness in Three Steps

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, welcome to episode 39.
In this interview I had thepleasure of sitting down with
another naturopathic physicianthis time the lovely Dr Kelly
Reese.
I had been wanting to findsomeone to interview about the
topic of thermography.
So I not only accomplished that, but in researching for this
episode it also took me down therabbit hole of mammograms.

(00:20):
And I guess I should stop beingsurprised at this point.
But I found mammograms to be amuch uglier example of medical
manipulation and harm than I hadimagined it to be.
I suppose serendipitously,before recording this episode
introduction, just yesterday Iwas talking with Dr Heather
Gessling, who some of you mayremember from the other two
interviews I've done with her.
She is a medical doctor and shewas telling me that it is not

(00:43):
uncommon for her to hearpatients say that they have been
refused services by physiciansif they won't get a mammogram.
And after you hear Dr Kelly andI discuss mammography, you
might see how unconscionable itis that mammograms are even
considered standard of caretoday.
So if you or someone you careabout has ever considered one or
have had one, this would be anepisode to not miss.

(01:06):
Two other fun nuggets I'llmention about this interview.
Is that first, in prep for thediscussion, I drove up to Dr
Kelly's office to experiencethermography myself and, as I
find anything new that might beworth suggesting to clients
wherever possible, I always liketo try to talk about them from
experience.
So I am delighted to reportthat my results are pretty
standard and, I guess you couldsay, boring.

(01:27):
So while I don't have any newcool insights into my health to
tell you about, instead I got DrKelly to tell you about some
amazing insights thermographyhas helped her find in other
people she has worked with.
The second thing I'll say isthat in this episode I think
anyway that you'll find that itdoes a great job of delivering
on the promise to deconstructconventional and see if we can

(01:49):
find a better way.
So Dr Kelly and I discussed thesix core principles of
naturopathy and I think you'llhear how they stand in sharp
contrast to how the medicalworld operates.
When you hear the principlesyou'll probably say, oh, that's
what a doctor is supposed to be.
It's just refreshing to knowthat this kind of approach to
health exists, and I even askedDr Kelly if she were to put

(02:11):
together her A-team to create aholistic approach to helping
people.
The first thing she mentionedwas having a health coach on the
team to help people with allthe lifestyle, diet, exercise
and mindset work it takes toheal.
So if you have found a gooddoctor but you're still
struggling to get well, youmight consider adding a coach to
your team.
You can find out more about thework I do by clicking on the
links in the show notes.

(02:32):
Coaching might be exactly whatyou've been missing.
Now I'll let you find out whoelse Dr Kelly mentioned on her
shortlist as you listen to theconversation.
The last thing I'll say is, ifyou appreciate this episode or
this show in general, pleaseshare it.
I'd love it if you'd be so kindas to leave a review wherever
you listen to podcasts.
It really helps expand thereach of the show, but also

(02:52):
helps expand the mission tocreate a much better model for
how to heal the body, mind andsoul.
Okay, without further ado, enjoymy conversation with the
wonderful physician,investigator and thinker, dr
Kelly Reese.
All right, hello everyone.
Welcome to my conversation withthe lovely Dr Kelly Reese.
So a few things about her.
She is a board-certifiednaturopathic physician, a

(03:15):
functional wellness expert and aKentucky native.
She graduated from the NationalUniversity of Natural Medicine
in Portland, oregon and has beenin practice since 2004.
Her passion is helping clientsdo what she calls fact find to
uncover root health issues andimbalances within the
foundational systems of the body.
That she calls gut health,hormone balance, detoxification

(03:37):
and inflammatory responses.
She works to resolve theunderlying inflammation and
stress that causes the breakdownof health.
Go imagine that.
Like what a concept.
So you all can probably tellwhy I like her already.
But it gets better.
So Dr Kelly's functionalapproach focuses on the whole
person.
While she does utilizenutritional supplementation in

(03:58):
her practice, she does not justmanage patient symptoms with
supplements and, like me, shebelieves you cannot supplement a
person back to health.
You need an individualized,comprehensive approach to treat
the whole person.
So I love that.
So she also has this quote onher website.
I just wanted to read you togive you a sense of how she
thinks.
So it says I believe that allphysical disease has an

(04:18):
emotional, mental and spiritualcomponent.
Therefore, healing must takeplace on all those levels.
It involves a strong commitmenton the part of my client
because all healing occurs fromwithin, utilizing a
comprehensive approach based infunctional medicine, full
diagnostic testing, lifestyleplanning and common sense.
I partner with my clients toeducate and support them on how

(04:40):
they can truly improve theirhealth and life on all levels.
So fantastic you and I are cutfrom the same cloth, dr Kelly.
So welcome to the show.
Thanks for taking the timetoday.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Thank you so much, Christian.
I really appreciate theinvitation.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
You're welcome, all right.
So I remember when my wifefirst sent me your website, she
said you were interested injoining our homeschool co-op and
I was like, oh cool.
So I checked out your website,I found out that you're a
naturopath who does thermography.
You have a private membershipassociation.
And then I checked out yoursocial media and I thought, oh,
this woman's bold.
She's not afraid to call outthe medical industrial complex

(05:14):
or the treatment of our freedomsRight, and I just knew I needed
to interview you.
So, before we get to some ofthat, rewind your story a bit
and give us some context of whoyou are.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Did you always know you wanted to be a doctor and of
all the different disciplinesyou could have gotten into, what
made you settle on becoming anaturopath?
You know, epiphany, to say theleast.
So I was in 1996 to 99, I wasat the University of Florida
getting a master's in zoologywith an emphasis in paleontology

(05:46):
.
So yeah, in my spare time, forfun, I would look up herb books
and people would ask me how do Ihandle menstrual cramps?
How do I do this?
Because it was just my funpastime.
I do this because it was justmy fun pastime.
So, you know, fast forward alittle bit.

(06:06):
Finishing up, you know I was alittle disenchanted by academia,
to say the least, and was, youknow, still looking at getting a
PhD in Austin, texas, ingeology, and went there to

(06:26):
interview, woke up in the middleof the night and went, what am
I doing?
Like this is not the directionI want to go and thought I would
be, you know, an herbalist orsomething that you know sounded
really just grounding, and foundout I could be an actual
naturopathic physician.
I didn't even know what anaturopathic physician was at

(06:47):
that point and I'm anoverachiever.
So I was like, why be anherbalist if I can be a
naturopathic physician and bethe doctor part two.
So came home back to Florida andfound out about NUNM in
Portland, flew probably a monthlater, flew out there to check

(07:10):
it out and the rest is history.
I was like, wow, I can be adoctor and do all of this too.
So went out there.
I was in naturopathic medicalschool from 1999 to 2004.
So five years of naturopathicmedical school from 1999 to 2004
.
So five years of naturopathicmedical school.

(07:30):
And you know we're very highlytrained.
So you know it's four to sixyears depending on the track you
take.
So that's my story, how Ibecame a naturopath, Nice.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Well, we'll get into the principles of naturopathy
and what attracted you to it ina second.
But the other part of yourstory that I thought was
fascinating is similar to me andmy family.
You and yours are COVIDtransplants.
So you went to school inPortland and you went to North
Carolina, had a practice thereand then you ended up in Florida
.
So give us your COVID story andwhat kind of moved you around,
what was going on in your mind?

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, thank goodness I moved out of Portland, oregon,
in 2017.
Like, I don't even know if wecould have survived Portland
through the COVID scam, Right.
So we were in Raleigh.
I figured, well, let's.
I'm from Kentucky, so you know,let's get closer to where I
grew up.
My husband is from EasternEurope, so that wasn't an option

(08:35):
.
So it was let's get a littlebit closer to the Southeast US,
I can travel and see my familymore.
And so I picked, we pickedRaleigh and it opened our eyes
to how, you know, notconservative, and how
Portland-like Raleigh NorthCarolina is.

(08:57):
So you know, going through theCOVID era, I call it the.
COVID era in Raleigh was veryeye-opening.
I was blown away by the justsheep, the followers, people not
stepping up for the most part.
There are a handful, but yeah.

(09:18):
So then we thought, boy, wereally need to start to
homestead, we really need totake this into our own hands and
be able to grow food, raisefood and live as rural in a
conservative area as we can.
So city people, you know nowwe're rural Florida.

(09:41):
We love it, we love every bitof it.
So we feel much more with ourpeople here.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I bet no similar sentiments.
For us, it's just like wait,this is not how I thought things
were going to go in terms offreedom and that being able, the
tyranny being able to be put incheck, and so I was like we got
to find a place where we canflourish, and Virginia was not
it, so I can relate to you.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
We actually looked at Virginia for a second and went
what are we doing?
Like?
This isn't the direction wewant to go.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, All right.
Well, so there's so many thingswe could talk about, but from
someone who isn't afraid tospeak truth, I wanted to zoom in
on two things before we get toone of your specialties, which
is thermography.
So the first one is just to askyou why did you set up your
practice as a private membershipassociation?
So tell us the story behindthat and what makes a PMA
special in your mind.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, so I've been harassed.
I've been in practice almost 21years and you know, when I
practiced in Oregon, we're veryequal to MDs.
We're equal to MDs in about 20states, but we're very regulated
in Oregon.
And so, moving to Raleigh, weare not licensed, and what I

(10:53):
mean by that is we can'tpractice to the full scope of
our training, we can't prescribe, we can't diagnose.
So once I got to Raleigh, I hadyou know, over those five years,
I had two interestingexperiences.
The first was the FDA callingme about my thermography

(11:17):
business, threatening to shut medown based on what wasn't
written.
A disclaimer wasn't written onmy website, so that was the
first thing that if I don't putthat on there, they will make
sure I'm shut down.
Um, the second was the NorthCarolina board of nutrition

(11:37):
decided to come after me andclaim I don't care if you're a
naturopathic physician and haveextremely you know comprehensive
training well beyond anutritionist.
We want to harass you as muchas we can.
And it was a legal battle forprobably nine months, which I

(11:59):
did win, did win.
However, that made me say youknow what I need to protect
myself and my clients from anytype of I'm going to call it
governmental intervention andneed to make sure that I am able

(12:21):
to do what I do best.
I don't do anything illegal.
I am able to do what I do best.
I don't do anything illegal.
I do everything by the book inthe state that I practice in.
However, I need to make sure weare protected and at PMA I am
legally a health church and thatis because I do believe so
strongly in the spiritual aspectof health.

(12:42):
I'm not going to be someone'spreacher, pastor, rabbi,
anything like that.
However, it's such a crucialcomponent to healing.
It fits so well with being aPMA so it is a non-negotiable.
I do not take any clientoutside of my PMA now and it is
a constitutionally protectedentity.

(13:03):
So it should be.
You know, air quotes should beprotected from government
overreach, but yeah, yeah, no,that's great.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
We set up Healing United as a PMA for that same
reason.
We just need a protected spaceto speak freely and do what we
can do to help people, and sothat, yeah, similar journey you
had there.
That's fantastic.
Well, that's.
And for those of you who didn'tknow what a PMA is, now you
know.
So, okay, the second thing Iwanna go over before we get to
thermography is just really thesix principles of naturopathy,

(13:36):
because I think it's so timely.
The more the mask slips off themedical system lately, the more
the core principles ofnaturopathy just stand in sharp
contrast to the principles ofWestern allopathic or so-called
conventional medicine.
So to me they're just a greatintroduction to how doctors like
you think and really, I think,a reminder of what doctors
should be in the first place.

(13:56):
So we'll just kind of brieflygo over those six.
But the first one is that themedical system would claim they
follow this one, but it's firstdo no harm.
So tell me how a naturopathframes that or where it may not
be.
So such a truism in the medicalworld.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I mean two words, big pharma.
So first, do no harm.
You know, the goal is to removeobstacles, not add obstacles,
and I think that's missed inconventional medicine, every day
, all day long.
It's even missed innaturopathic medicine.
Not all naturopaths trulyfollow.

(14:34):
First do no harm.
But it really is removingobstacles and making sure that
we are allowing the body to moveforward in health without
getting in the way.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, yep.
So what are a couple ofexamples of harm that are just
kind of defaulted to?
You mentioned big pharma.
Is there anything else thatstands out to you?

Speaker 2 (14:54):
I mean, I think people are over-supplemented.
I think that is harm.
I think, you know, while Iappreciate the functional
medicine movement, I believeit's also adding some harm.
This may not be a favorite, youknow, for me to say, but I
think it's.
For some it's become a racketto figure out how to have

(15:14):
supplement sales and there's alot of harm.
Yeah.
Um, I think that's a big one.
I think it's overlooked a lot.
You know, you shouldn't needthousands of dollars of
supplements to be healthy.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right, exactly.
We proudly claim we aresupplement minimalists and try
to give people a few things theyactually need and there's just
so much waste that you get asuitcase full of supplements
with so many of thesenaturopathic or other big
coaching programs and it justbaffles me that that's.
It's like eat this way and takea whole boatload of supplements
as if that's the cure and somuch more to it.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
So much more to it.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Cool, okay.
Principle number two is thehealing power of nature.
So talk to us about that one.
What does that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
So, you know, I would base this more kind of um herbs
, healing herbs, um food asmedicine is probably my favorite
.
It is designed, you know,divinely designed to help us be
healthy, and it's truly, in myeyes, all the healing we need is

(16:22):
is through, through nature andum, it's just sitting out there
for us.
You know, there's when there'slike um, an herb that can make
us sick or something, the, thecounterpart, the healing or the
antidote, is right next to it innature.
It's.
It's pretty cool, you know,when you, when you think about

(16:43):
how it's all designed.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah Well, and it stands to me.
It's in sharp contrast to theway that medicine thinks there's
a hubris, that it's one.
They just kind of neglect theidea that the body's the one
doing the healing.
But two, it's the healing isfrom there's nature's bounty,
rather than some sort ofchemical cocktail or pharmakia,
which literally means witchcraftor sorcery, which is where we
get the word pharmaceutical it's.
There's the idea that we, asthe wiser people, can dictate

(17:12):
and tell the body what to do,rather than recognize that it
knows how to do in our job.
To your point, just get out ofits way.
So yeah, okay, yep, okay.
Number three is identify andtreat the causes, which, if you
know anything about the medicalsystem, you know they don't do
this.
But talk to us about what thatone means to you.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
So you know the, the cause I see this all the time in
conventional and holisticmedicine is we're treating blood
pressure, we're treating highcholesterol.
Is we're treating bloodpressure, we're treating high
cholesterol, and what we reallyneed to look at is why is the
body creating high bloodpressure?
Why is the body creating highcholesterol which is not a

(17:53):
problem, by the way but why thewhy?
So I use that a lot in mypractice.
I want to look for the why, notthe what.
The what is caused by the why,and it's important to truly
search out the foundationalissues that are broken.
I call them broken pathways.

(18:15):
It might be estrogen detox, itmight be poor liver function, it
might be all sorts of thingsthat are happening that are
missed, and once again, we'rethrowing meds or supplements on
top and not using supplements ornature to address those broken
pathways in the deepestfoundations.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Right.
And if you ask a medical doctor, if it sounds funny to you the
idea that medical doctors don'tidentify and treat causes, just
go ask them the simple questionwhy is my body experiencing this
?
Or where is this coming from?
And you're going to getprobably one of five answers
it's genetics, it's stress, it'saging or I don't know, or it's
all in your head and youprobably should talk to a shrink
Like.
That's the closest they get toidentifying any sort of cause.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
And they throw stress around like it's not a big deal
.
Oh, it's just stress.
I hear that phrase all the timeStress, high cortisol will take
you out, it'll damage your DNA,it'll cause all sorts of
disease.
Yet it's thrown around like, oh, it's in your head or oh, you
have too much weight on, youneed to diet and lose weight.

(19:23):
And there's so many excusesgiven.
I tell my clients you know, ifyou have a crack in your wall
and you keep, you know, smearingspackle on your wall on the
crack and you don't, and it'sdue to the foundation being off,
you're always going to have avulnerable area where that crack

(19:43):
keeps showing itself until youfix the foundation.
So if you don't fix thefoundation and really get to
that cause, you are just chasingyour tail non-ending.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Right yeah, so I love that one as a contrast.
Okay, principle number four isdoctor as teacher, which I think
is brilliant.
So explain what that means toyou.
So explain what that means toyou.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
If I had a favorite out of all six of these, it's
this one docer.
Doctor is teacher.
Where this has gotten, you know, like sent down a pathway of,
the doctor is the pill pusher.
The doctor is the supplementgiver.
The doctor is we are teachers.

(20:23):
First and foremost, we areteachers and I tell every client
that I accept, becauseunfortunately I can't take on
every client who wants to see me.
But every client I take on, Iask are you willing to learn?
Because my job is to educateyou.
You should not need me.
If you need me long term, Ihaven't done my job.

(20:45):
You shouldn't need any doctor.
We should really be back tothis old school where we learn,
relearn how to eat, we relearnhow to be healthy, truly healthy
, and that's why all the levelsspiritual, mental, emotional,
physical come in.
But we, my job is to train you,not to need me.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Right, love, that yeah.
And we we describe ourselves asteachers as well.
We are not even healers, likethe body's the one that does
that.
We just teach you how to getout of its way and empower it.
And to me this stands incontrast to the almost doctor as
God kind of persona that themedical system, we are
infallible and we are primaryand we have we hear, we have
consensus.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, the beauty of the COVID scam is, I think I
think boy did that shine a lightthe light flipped on and the
roaches are scattering and wegot to see a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, the proclamations from on high, just
that doesn't seem to workanymore and we need people who
can teach us.
I love that that's wrapped intohow you think.
So okay, Principle number fiveis treat the whole person.
That may be my favorite one,but tell us what that means to
you.
You've already hinted at it alittle bit, but expand.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, think about conventional medicine.
We have our gastroenterologist,our OB-GYN, we have our
cardiologist.
They can't see past theirsystem that they are trained in.
Right, and we, those systems,interact on a daily basis.
We're not just a gut, you knowwe're not just a brain or a

(22:18):
throat or you know we, those areall connected and how it got to
the point of specialtiesbaffles me, because it's it's
not the way the body works.
We have to treat the whole body.
You know I'm a big believer.
Hormones, gut detoxification,inflammation, like those are

(22:39):
very foundational in you know,as far as the whole body is
concerned.
But you know you have to lookat how the brain connects to the
gut, how you know your jointpains, you know, connect to your
diet and how you know everyaspect has to truly be, you know

(23:00):
, looked at to get a betterunderstanding of how to help
someone correct it.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah Well, and it's not the world that the medical
system likes to stay in.
They've created this and I hadto finally break that spell, the
specialty idea I'm a specialistas if there is a special,
simple answer for a complexproblem, and so I made up the
word partialist to describe it.
And it's like okay, now we canhave an honest conversation,
because you're looking at a partof the body and a, you know, a

(23:29):
zoomed in part of a system, butunless you can zoom out, you're,
you're ignoring this, thisfifth principle of treat the
whole person, and you're just,you're playing whack-a-mole at
that point.
So absolutely love that one,okay, uh.
Number six is prevention, whichyou would think would be a
thing doctors would be into.
But even the alternative or therestorative world is still not

(23:50):
great at this prevention thing.
It's typically mostlyreactionary.
So where does doctor as teacherand prevention come into your
practice?

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, you know, I can't talk about it with talking
about the medical mafia.
To be honest, that preventioncreates healthy people.
Healthy people don't pay themedical mafia's bill.
And what I mean by that isconventional medicine, big
pharma, big ag, insurancecompanies they're one big

(24:23):
conglomerate and if, if diseaseis prevented, their money goes
away.
And so prevention is everythingLike if I can help my clients.
Rarely do I get the client.
I get them, but rarely do I getthe client who's like.
You know, I just want toprevent disease.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I love it when I get that client.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
I'm like oh my gosh, you are such the unicorn.
Right, you know but.
But I get the people who may bein the first stages or in the
late stages, but prevention wecan prevent when I get those
teenagers, or you know, early 20year olds, which I do a lot
actually, that I can really helpthem move forward in their

(25:05):
health by preventing all of thischronic disease down the road.
Unfortunately, a number of themcome to me with already chronic
diseases that young.
Yeah.
But prevention is key.
But, boy, I mean even you knowinsurance companies fight
against it all the time Becauseit you know insurance companies
fight against it all the timebecause you know they don't want
to pay for any type ofpreventative care.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, well, it's funny.
There's got to be a way for anyof you thinkers out there who
like to deconstruct conventionalthings.
There's got to be a way to showthe insurance companies the
math, the money they save anddon't have to pay in treatment
if we could just find and fundsome simple preventative things.
So any of you thinkers outthere, do it.
But yeah, I love that thatyou're and I'm right there with
you as a coach.

(25:48):
I have to.
It's rare to find somebodywho's like I.
Just I'm okay, but I want tomake sure I stay this way and
learn what I don't know abouthealth, because there's health
classes in high school andcollege are a joke.
They don't teach you anythingabout what you should actually
be doing, and they are in.
You know, medical schools toohonestly, yeah Well, you guys
don't even study nutrition inmedical school.
It just baffles me Like theengine, like the gas that runs

(26:10):
the engine.
You have no clue how that worksat all.
Yeah, nope, so okay, well, sothose are the six principles of
naturopathy.
I'll read them again, just forthe listener.
So we do no harm the healingpower of nature.
Identify and treat the cause,doctor as healer, treat the
whole human or whole person, andprevention.
So those are the six principles.
So the other thing I wanted toask you about is, just, like you

(26:32):
know, we're getting intothermography here, but, just
like chiropractors or functionalmedicine doctors or a lot of
other doctors, there are so manyadjunct modalities or
specialties that you could havepicked to add to your practice,
but you picked thermography.
So first tell us whatthermography is, let's define it
, and then tell us why youpicked it as a tool in your
toolkit.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Sure.
So thermography is truly, youknow, the study of heat as it's
emitted from the body, and it'sincredibly subtle.
So I don't want you to thinklike you know, you can feel it,
it's, it's not, it's so muchmore subtle than that.
So I mean they were, you know,I think it was like 400 BC, 500

(27:16):
BC, somewhere around there.
They were putting mud onpeople's bodies and watching
where it dried and say that'swhere you have issues, that's
where you're, you're diseasedprobably the word you know, um.
So thermal, you know,temperatures have been used

(27:37):
forever, truly forever, and um,it's been obviously refined and
fine-tuned over the many years,but it is a concept that has
been around for very long, andso there's a thermal, very

(27:57):
subtle energy that's emitted bythe human body.
And thermography nowadays is acamera like I use the MediTherm
equipment and I can explain thatin greater detail.
It's a camera that only issensing.
It can pick up just the firstfive millimeters of skin

(28:20):
temperature, so it is readingthe temperature on the first
five millimeters of skintemperature.
So it is reading thetemperature on the first five
millimeters depth of skin.
Okay.
And it can.
It is incredibly sensitive tothe 100th of a degree.
Wow.
And so thermography.
You take an image and thereit's pixelated, of course, as

(28:44):
any image, and each image has upto 307,000 pixels, each with
its own temperature measurement.
Wow, up to one one-hundredth ofa degree.
So that's how sensitivethermography is.
One hundredth of a degree.

(29:06):
So that's how sensitivethermography is.
And so the human body.
It's kind of known that it willemit more warmth in areas of
inflammation or disease, but itwill also be cooler with other
types of disease, likeneurological, for example.
So it's not always.
A lot of people think you'retaking a picture and looking for
hotspots, like the white withthe red around it.

(29:26):
That's not exactly the case.
It's more of a it's it's afiner, uh, more detailed science
than than looking for hotspots,um, but that's the basis that
it's reading the temperaturethat's emitted infrared heat.
So it's also known as digitalinfrared, you know.

(29:47):
So thermal imaging, diti, orthermography.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Wow, fantastically effective, or just I didn't know
it could read at that small ofa level.
But and until now I hadn't putit together that nerve damage or
nerve neurological issues makesit colder.
But it makes sense to mebecause that's where the blood
flow goes through and that'swhat brings the energy and the
life force to the body.
And if it's not happening, itwould that area would cool down.

(30:14):
That's.
That's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, and you did ask me how I.
So you know, being in practice,like I said, now 21 years I've
done thermography.
For 14 of those I found myselfneeding a tool to give me more
information about a client.

(30:37):
The more valuable it became tome that something that I can
have in my office that I couldimage someone and get detailed

(30:59):
information about where to look.
So, oh, I have leg pain.
Well, is it vascular, is itbone, is it joint, is it muscle,
is it nerve?
I mean, there's so many layersin the human body.
Oh wow, that looks nerve.
Okay, let's get this kind ofimaging on top of that to see if
we can you know, nail down whatwe're dealing with.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
When it fits the frame of identifying.
Well, you're looking for causes,you're not trying to just treat
a symptom.
And, interesting, as you'retalking, I'm thinking back to my
time as a personal trainerwhere it became apparent to me
early on that where someone haspain isn't necessarily where the
problem is.
Like you could have knee painbecause your foot or your hip or
your abs can't fire or anynumber of symptoms, and you can

(31:41):
have shoulder pain because yourabs can't fire or any number of
symptoms, and you can haveshoulder pain because your abs
can't release or they're notstrong enough to stabilize your
arm when you move it.
And it really made me thinkmuch more holistically in a
biomechanical world initiallyand I was like, wait a minute,
it's all these systems.
They all have to be able towork together and it's just fun
to interact with somebody whothinks that way and I can see
why thermography kind of jumpedout.

(32:01):
Somebody who thinks that wayand I can see why thermography
kind of jumped out is it's itand it I understand it correctly
there's an earlier ability tofind or see things often than
other tools that peek into thebody.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (32:12):
absolutely so.
It's a physiological umscreening tool more than an.
It's not an anatomicalscreening tool.
Okay, so we're not looking.
Once again, it kind of goeswith my philosophy.
We're not looking.
Once again, it kind of goeswith my philosophy.
We're not looking for the what,we're looking for the why.
So it, you know, althoughsometimes we do find the what

(32:32):
with thermography, like a stressfracture or, you know, a dental
abscess, things like that, butit's looking for processes that
are happening.
So that's why it's physiological.
But it's looking for processesthat are happening.
So that's why it'sphysiological.
So it's a process versus.
You know, we'll talk aboutbreast thermography and
mammograms, but it's not lookingfor the tumor, it's looking for
the angiogenesis, the formationof blood vessels that will feed

(32:55):
an area that may later become atumor.
So that's why it's aphysiological test and it really
provides so much insight.
You had mentioned thatsometimes the knee may hurt.
Well, the left knee may hurt,but on thermography we find it's
a right sacroiliac issue andyou're overcompensating on the

(33:17):
left.
And here your left knee pain.
We need to address your rightSI joint.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, it's so much more fun to be able to go
upstream and investigate whatwould be contributing to this.
Why is the knee being punishedright now?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Right, it's not even the knee's fault.
And here we're wrapping theknee, icing the knee, and we
need to be focusing on the rightSI joint.
Right, exactly, we didn't evenknow until we were able to use
this non-invasive tool thatprovided direction.
So I did it solely forproviding direction, for helping
me help my clients.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, okay.
One other nuance I want to makesure I get on the record is the
difference between.
You describe it as anassessment, not a diagnostic.
So what's, what's thedifference there?

Speaker 2 (34:02):
So there are, I would say, few diagnostic tools, and
I'm going to use the breast foran example.
Okay, so screen says oh, areaof concern.
So thermography area of concern, mammogram area of concern.
Then the next step is an MRI oran ultrasound.

(34:24):
Ultrasound's a much betterchoice.
Ultrasound, yes, there is anarea of concern.
The biopsy pulls cells out.
They look at the pathology.
That's a diagnostic tool.
The biopsy.
Yeah.
So the screening tools are onceagain providing location

(34:44):
suspicion that.
So we can't diagnose fromsomething that's just looking
for the suspicion, we canisolate it, identify it to then
look at it more from apathological standpoint.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I just that documentary you
sent me that we'll mention in asecond.
That mentioned biopsies and therisk.
I never put it together, butthe idea of, like, you puncture
the skin, you scrape it and thenyou pull something out and
you're basically creating thisvacuum, this suction where that
was.
And if you've, if you've hit atumor and you pull that fluid
out of that, you could bespreading it more than you're

(35:21):
actually getting the insight youneed.
There's risk here, whether it'smicrotrauma or bigger, there's
trauma that's going on in thebody in that process as well.
So just something else to thinkabout when you're thinking
about diagnostics and the waysthat the medical system wants to
probe you.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
I mean biopsies, have an absolute risk.
There's a lot of data out thereshowing, and you know, that
there are, like tumors along aline, microscopic tumors along
the line of the biopsy needle.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, and they just, they, just, you know, flippantly
prescribe them as if that's oh,that's not the next thing we
got.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
We have to do this and you know, kit, I would love
just to digress for a moment.
Go for it.
Informed consent.
So what was hammered into me innaturopathic medical school was
informed consent.
It's gone now.
You know, I know, you know thatI know that informed consent is
a thing of the past and it'scriminal, but informed consent

(36:23):
is what's required in it andit's criminal, but informed
consent is what's required in it, is what's called a PAR-Q,
p-a-r-q and P stands for this.
Is true informed consent.
Was the procedure explained indetail?
And this goes for anything,whether it's a jab to the arm or
a mammogram.

(36:44):
Was the procedure explained toyou in detail?
Were you given alternatives tosuch procedure, safe
alternatives?
Were you explained the risksdetailed and did you have an
opportunity to ask questions?
It is a thing of the past.

(37:05):
No one discusses.
There's no informed consentanymore.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, I'm trying to think back to any doctor visit I
ever had where those fourthings were done.
I can't think of one.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, so women who are getting biopsies breast
biopsies do they do a PAR-Q?
We used to have to document it.
The P the A yes, do they do aPARQ?
We used to have to document it.
The P the A yes, I did a PARQ?

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Wow, it's not.
Yeah, it's just a fairy dustedplatitude at this point.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Absolutely.
I just wanted to mention thatbecause it's an issue for me
that in this era that issignificantly lacking and people
it's like boiling the frogPeople aren't realizing that
that's even gone because theydidn't realize it was there
before.
Only we knew it was therebefore.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, well, and it's just.
I try to think like when didthis become the norm?
It kind of crept in as thisresidue from the era when
doctors were put on such apedestal and science was
worshipped.
As it's going to tell useverything and we're still kind
of at the coattails of thisdoctor, as infallible doctor
knows best.
My intuition can't keep up andwe should just trust everything,

(38:15):
and they've just almostweaponized that against us now
that they have the veneer ofinformed consent.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
but it's really not there they have the veneer of
informed consent, but it'sreally not there.
Well, and they've created allthese annual visits to show you
what's wrong, so they can putyou on a med.
I mean, they've created this.
This is designed on purpose.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, you're about to get another dose of that in a
second.
So before we get there, I wantto just kind of whet their
appetite for how coolthermography is or can be.
So, without divulging anypersonal information, give us a
story or two about wherethermography may have helped you
find something that otherdoctors were missing and you
mentioned one already withdental problems.
But give us a couple of storiesto kind of help people see some

(38:55):
of the potential here that maybe helpful to them.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Absolutely so.
One client came to me afterwith back and it was becoming
more and more severe.
55-year-old woman, in goodhealth overall and worked out
all of this.
She went to the ER.
Her pain was getting so bad.

(39:18):
They barely examined her andthey sent her home and said you
just have low back pain.
Here's some pain meds.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
So yes, Thanks, I already knew that Dismissed.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Right, that is just muscle pull.
No exam, no, no imaging.
Um, the next morning I did kindof I'm going to call it kind of
an emergency with a stat.
I asked for a statinterpretation.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
What does that mean for somebody who doesn't know?

Speaker 2 (39:47):
So real quick.
I'm a thermographer, like aphotographer, so I take the
images, I always submit them toboard certified thermologists,
so think radiologists.
They are MDs who are highlytrained in interpreting the
thermograms, the images, and sothey take the medical history,

(40:09):
they look at the images and theyinterpret.
So I asked for a stat likewithin an hour, getting this
report back, because her painwas building and they said you
really need to send her back tothe ER and have them look for
diverticulitis.
And lo and behold, she haddiverticulitis and they missed
it, sent her home.
I mean, she could have had aruptured colon from

(40:32):
diverticulitis.
They sent her home becausethey're like you're 55.
It's back pain and they wouldhave missed diverticulitis.
So, that was a fantastic one.
I didn't mention the dentalabscess but there was a really
good case where a client she hadchronic sinus infections and

(40:54):
she tried everything the nasalsprays, antibiotics and that
were very sinus-based.
And she was so frustrated and Isaid you know what, let me just
do some images of your head andneck.
And she happened to be a dentalhygienist, so this was kind of
perfect, you know, for this.

(41:16):
But I said did you ever have aroot canal like bottom, you know
, left molar?
And she goes I do, I do have aroot canal there.
And I said they, you know, havethem do a little more angled
x-ray and a little, you know,see if they can do like a more
specific x-ray.
And they didn't.

(41:36):
Lo and behold, she had a dentalabscess and that dental abscess
was actually causing we treateddirectly the dental abscess and
that dental abscess wasactually causing we treated the
directly the dental abscess andit fixed her sinus.
Um, sinus infection, chronicsinus infections was, which
wasn't a sinus infection tostart with.
Right, it was her sinusesreacting to the the abscess

(41:57):
tooth.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Right, Love it.
It's just something peopledon't think to um investigate.
Okay, Any other stories youwant to mention?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Carotid arteries.
You know they show up a lot inpeople.
It's a really good assessmentof carotid arteries.
I've picked up occlusivedisease.
Like you know, blockages andcarotids.
Thermography is a little moresensitive so we can pick things
up at about 20% when, like aDoppler ultrasound at a 60%.
This person just had unknownocclusive disease that was

(42:27):
greater than 60%.
I sent her for a Dopplerultrasound.
This was in Oregon where theylet me do that.
I sent her for a Dopplerultrasound and she absolutely
had like 90% blockage in hercarotid.
So we were able to address that.
So we were able to address thatand she was forever grateful
because you know she was.
She was headed for a stroke oror something for sure down the

(42:49):
road.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Right on, ok.
Well, one of the places thatthermography really shines is as
breast cancer and or screeningor assessing the breast in some
way.
So it's in my mind.
It's such a great replacementfor mammograms, which we'll get
into in a second.
But where does how doesthermography shine when it comes
to the breast?
And feel free to mention thedocumentary you told me to watch
, the Breast Kept Secret.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
That one blew my mind , so yeah, so you know,
thermography it's apples andoranges when it comes to a
mammogram and thermography theyare not the same.
As I kind of mentioned before,mammogram is looking for a what
it's looking for?

(43:35):
A pea size or larger structure.
A lot of times they'll look forcalcifications, but this is the
sad part Calcifications, about90% of the time are benign and
they will use the wordcalcifications.
It looks suspicious.
We need that biopsy.
Now we're jabbing a needle intoa woman's breast.

(43:56):
So they're not equal.
It's hard to say replacement forme, and that's not just because
the FDA, you know, hatesthermography makes me not say it
, but they're really not thesame.
So thermography is always goingto look at the process,
sometimes eight to 10 yearsbefore a structure the size of a

(44:19):
pea could ever grow.
So's very, you know, it's verypreventative and um, that's you
know.
One of the main things that Ilike about it is how
preventative it is.
Like we can get on.
It can assess for estrogendominance.
There's patterns that will giveus like hormone dominance,
estrogen dominance.
You know, runaway estrogen isvery dangerous for breast health

(44:42):
and it's very common,especially with the, even the
bioidentical hormone.
You know gurus out there,everybody's jabbing pellets and
and rubbing creams on, and it'snot without risks as well.
But for you know, a mammogramis just not the same.

(45:03):
There's no danger risks withthermography.
It is non-invasive, noradiation doesn't touch a person
, so there's no trauma, physicaltrauma, I tell people.
The least comfortable part forsome people is, yeah, we have to
see skin.
So when I image, you have to benude and I have to see skin.

(45:25):
I keep my clients draped asmuch as possible, but when I
have to image breasts, I have toimage breasts though.
So, but other than that, like amammogram is horribly archaic.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Tell us why.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Well, so you know, if you look at the, you know what
tissues are the most sensitiveto radiation.
So there are some studies inJapan, nuclear reactors, and you
know, after Chernobyl in Europe, what tissues are most

(45:58):
susceptible to like radiationtoxicity, radiation damage.
That's what ranks at the top.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Breast tissue yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Breast tissue.
Thyroid.
What do we do?
When we get x-rays for dental,we cover our thyroid.
They have thyroid flaps becauseglandular tissue is so
sensitive to radiation.
When we get dental x-rays, theycover the thyroid, they protect
the thyroid and here we aresmashing.
They say just trauma, gettinghit in the breast can cause

(46:30):
injury.
That you know, is very damaging.
But now we smash the breasts indifferent ways, with what would
be the equivalent of threebowling balls on a breast.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Yeah, three bowling balls.
I didn't know that part.
I knew about the radiation.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, 44 pounds smashing a breast.
Yeah then let's, let's, let'ssend a bunch of radiation into
that.
Now traumatized tissue.
So trauma to the breast is arisk factor for breast cancer.
Radiation it's definitelywithout the trauma.
Radiation just in general is arisk factor for breast cancer.

(47:10):
Now we just traumatize and sentradiation through a breast and
they say, well, it's low, well,it's not as low when you isolate
it onto a breast.
It's very concentrated on avery particular area, and then
3d are magnified um.

(47:31):
It's even more radiation yeah,well and that.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
So if you guys have not seen the documentary the
breast kept secret, I wouldencourage you to check it out.
It's another one of those that,to me, just it started making
me angry.
It's egregious how harmful anddehumanizing these mammograms
have built and I kind of justwatching it I wanted to.
I started feeling like gosh.
This is almost as bad asstatins or mercury fillings or

(47:58):
vaccines or even psych meds.
It's almost like everything themedical industrial complex
touches they have to find a wayto.
I wish I was.
I felt like I was overstatingthis, but I feel like they find
a way to weaponize and createfear-based or harm-based
interventions or medicines andit's like everything else is
just a nut that might make youwell, they, they don't talk
about that, but they talk aboutthis, and so I I guess I'm

(48:20):
grateful that you're here tokeep me from getting too hot
under the collar.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Well, it's hard not to right.
I mean it is, it's archaic,it's.
You know, if you really look atthe studies, the ones that
promote it and say, oh well, itprevents sometimes.
Well, I think, I think it's onein 10 might benefit.
One in 10 might benefit from amammogram.
That means 90% of people don'tyeah.

(48:54):
And the longer you're gettingit's the cumulative effect.
So, just like the thyroid, it'sthe cumulative effect of the
radiation, year after year.
So what?
they just did with the FDAlowering what they, you know,
just did with the FDA loweringit.
Now you know forties and no,you're 35.
You have a risk for breastcancer because your mom had it.

(49:15):
So we need to start mammogramsat 35.
Well, you have a lump, you're25.
Let's do yearly mammograms at25, the cumulative risk of this
radiation and trauma.
And then they say a diagnostic.
This one frustrates me.
They will do a screeningmammogram.
Then they'll send you back ifthey see something for a
diagnostic mammogram.

(49:37):
As I said before, there's nosuch thing.
You can't diagnose.
But what they're doing isthey're trying to look at a
specific area.
And guess what they do?
They push harder so there'sextensively more pressure and
then they're radiating it againand all they're doing is
creating more breast cancer inmy eyes.

(49:59):
But something I want to say I ama medical freedom diehard.
People should be able to choosewhat they need or want to do
with their body.
So if a woman asks me, you know, should I get a mammogram, I'm
like that is a very specificchoice for you to make.

(50:22):
But here are some things youneed to read on both sides.
Here are things you need toread to make sure you are
educated.
Once again, the par Q, but youneed to know the risks and
benefits.
Does it benefit you more thanthere are risks?
But I would never say no, don'tdo that, because who am I to

(50:43):
tell someone?
And that became even bigger inthe last four years.
But I think if you haveinformed consent and you're
educated, you get to make thechoice of what you want to do.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah Well, and a couple of things I want to
highlight relative to yourcomments.
There was a study in theJournal of the American Medical
Association in 2022.
So recently where they examinedwomen over 10 years and found
that there's a 56% chance you'regonna get a false positive.
56% of the time, there's a goodchance we're gonna freak you
out over something that totallywas nothing and sends you into

(51:18):
who knows how much emotionaltrauma to deal with that, and
then, on the flip side, therewas a 38% chance of a false
negative.
So what's the point?
What are we even doing?
You're right At this point.
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
I mean, aren't we a more advanced culture that
there's got to be somethingbetter than putting three
bowling balls on a woman'sbreasts and then throwing
radiation in there and sayingthis will help you not get
cancer.
That's caused by radiationRight.
I mean it's absurd's absurdyeah, and it gets worse.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
A couple weeks ago, two, three weeks ago, the fda
put out a new requirement thatany woman receiving a mammogram
has to be told about her breastdensity, and it relates to
health.
So then I so I'm readingthrough this, the new guidelines
, and I'm trying to be fair butadmittedly cynical about
anything the fda touches at this, and their guidelines just look
to me like another reason togive women something to be

(52:11):
anxious about.
And so, for the case you don'tknow, the recommendation is, if
you have dense breasts, the ideais that they may not be able to
see the cancer.
So if that's you, then wesuggest you do more testing.
You can do the ultrasounds orMRIs, or you can go genetic
testing or all the way to biopsy.
And it's just to me it was likeoh great, another example we're

(52:32):
testing, just like COVID is nowweaponized against us, and in
this case it's just weaponizedagainst women.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
It's scare tactics.
So you fall in line and you'rethe good little sheep falling in
line, doing what they say, whenthe whole time I believe it's
designed to make us sicker andsicker and more reliant, and
more reliant, until we don'teven realize, oh my gosh, back
in the day we used to be healthyand we ate real food and we

(52:57):
didn't do all this crazy stuff.
And it's, you know, dense.
So thermography excels in a fewareas because they cannot see
tissue well when they'reimplants.
I mean they're going to popimplants.
You know it's just not not agood match.
Um inflammatory breast cancerthat's not detectable on a

(53:21):
mammogram because it's aninflammation process.
That's something very umclearly seen on thermography and
um and so that you know I thinkthat's really important.
But dense the density ofbreasts, it doesn't matter in

(53:42):
thermography like the density ofthe breasts.
So they say, on a mammogram, ifyou have dense breasts, it's all
white and what they're lookingfor is white.
So it's like trying to find asnowball in a snowstorm and I'm
like then why are we doing it?
Are you just going to pushharder, apply more pressure,
just irradiate more?
Or I'm not opposed toultrasounds.

(54:04):
I have sent many women forbreast ultrasounds to assess an
area like a lump.
So let's do thermography andthen I think a breast ultrasound
is not a bad idea.
Because I think it really,because that's what they do.
After they do their screeningmammogram, their diagnostic

(54:27):
mammogram.
Then they send them for abreast ultrasound.
I'm like, why didn't you dothat in the first place?
Because it's cheap.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
They don't make money on it, they don't make money on
breast ultrasounds.
Yeah, and just another window.
They're safe and cheap.
Yeah.
Why would we want that if we'rethe?
Medical cartel Right.
Right Right for the medicalcartel, Right right.
Well, you mentioned breastimplants.
I wanted to just highlightsomething there for a second.
So thermography can help,whether or not.
Obviously a mammogram wouldcrush and explode, whatever the

(54:57):
implant is, but thermographycould help in that sense.
But I think there's a lot ofwomen who don't know back to
your Par-Q comment, they don'tknow the risks associated with
implants and the number of.
Go search for some onlineforums where you find women
talking about the health impactsthey have had having the
implants over time and then thehealth return they get when they

(55:18):
finally have them taken out.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
So anything you want to say about that, Um, I do see
and work with a number of womenwith breast implant illness.
It's much more common thanpeople would ever realize and
you know, do we see?
I would never want to say wecan see something like that.
On thermography we can seeinflammation.

(55:40):
Breast implant illness is more.
Wow, my health went downhillafter I got them.
Or I have silicone breastimplants and now I have
adhesions and I'm like you'releaking silicone and silicone is
poison.
So of course, you have breastimplant illness now.
So it's, it's something, um,that's a real factor right now

(56:03):
with implants, for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Well, let's give the listenersome insights into the process.
So I came and had it done, justto be able to experience it,
and I was surprised to find outI couldn't have caffeine, I
couldn't have breakfast.
There's a few things that youmight not think of, so talk us
through what a typicalexperience of having

(56:39):
thermography done is like Sureso the prep.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Um, we can't image any woman who is nursing until
at least three months after.
I kind of jokingly say yourbreasts are reason not to get it
from a dangerous standpoint butfrom an accuracy standpoint,
post-surgery.
So if a woman had a noderemoved, a lump, ectomy,
anything, we need three monthsto until that heals, months to

(57:13):
until that heals.
Um, my preference is often freesurgery, three months after
surgery and then three monthsafter that.
So we can kind of map becausethe physiology you know
physiology will change afterthere's a surgery.
So kind of mapping the changes.
Um, so those are things.
Any type of surgery.
So chiropractic, at least 24hours, cause that's.
You know it's very physical, itthere is inflammation that's
created.

(57:33):
Massage there's inflammation.
Just from the physical.
It's not bad inflammation butit's inflammation that we might
read like an overlying um layerfrom somebody getting a massage.
And so caffeine will definitelymake people warmer in general.
So that is avoided.

(57:55):
We avoid deodorant lotionsbecause we don't want anything
on the skin.
We want to see the skin in itspurest state.
So we always do a pre-examquestionnaire or it's really
informative that we make peoplesign before they come in.
So I make sure yes, you've readit Now.

(58:16):
I mean people could sign it andmaybe not read it, but then I
turn them away and say you don'twant to pay me today for doing
thermography because you're notgoing to get the most accurate.
So prep really matters.
When they come in they actuallyhave to cool down and acclimate
to the room.
So I will usually have my.
I'll step out, have my clientsremove their clothing, their

(58:40):
jewelry, depending on what we'reimaging, and sit in a gown for
15 minutes in a room that is 68to 72 degrees Fahrenheit.
That you know they can't foldtheir arms, they can't be
rubbing areas People are famousfor like oh, it hurts here, and
then they'll rub the area.
That will actually createfriction on the skin, which

(59:01):
they'll even the waistband.
They'll have a rim or a redring around where their
waistband is.
So I have them pull their pantskind of down far enough,
depending on what we're imaging.
If it's breast only, they don'thave to worry about that.
But you know I do a lot ofscreening that is full body, so
literally every part of the body.
I do female and male screenswhich are pelvis up to the head,

(59:26):
we.
We include thyroid, thecarotids, um chest, breasts,
abdomen, pelvis, all of that andthen breast only or region only
.
Sometimes I'll just do hands orknees and and the prep depends
on what they're getting.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Okay, so tell us about.
So you've taken the photos, yousend them off to a professional
, they look them over and thenyou go through it with somebody.
So what's the that process orthe frequency of the tests that
somebody might get with you?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Sure.
So when, when we image ourclients, we don't automatically
go over the results.
Now, people are not.
Everybody wants to see that,Believe it or not.
We probably have.
I feel we have more repeatclients who just want to read.
The report is very detailed.

(01:00:15):
The thermologists send back abeautiful report with their
interpretation, all the imagesattached, and so I stand at the
ready if somebody wants me to goover it, like I'd like you to
go over this.
So I don't include that in theimaging price because I don't
want people to pay for somethingthey don't even want.
Yeah, so I do that kind of youknow, a la carte, Okay, and so

(01:00:40):
I'll go over it as anaturopathic physician and say
you know, I think you should getthis, do this, think about this
and that.
And so the thermologists arequite quick, very thorough, very
detailed, and I get that report.
I always say within sevenbusiness days.
It often gets, you know issooner, but I always like to say

(01:01:01):
seven business days.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Yeah, okay, anything specific.
Someone might ask if they'researching for a thermographer or
someone to do that for them.
Is there anything they mightnot think to ask about when
they're calling around?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Yeah, they're not all created equal.
The equipment I will only useMediTherm.
It is like you know, ifCadillacs are still the top of
the line, it's the Cadillac ofthe imaging, the thermography
equipment.
There's other companies thatsell it, so MediTherm is medical
grade only.

(01:01:35):
There are many, many, many,many cameras on the market that
are industrial and then theyfine-tuned their range to make
them pick up just the human body.
Or you know, we also imagehorses, so I'll say mammal body,
and so that is really important.

(01:01:59):
Meditherm has superiorthermologists.
In my eyes, the AmericanCollege of Clinical Thermography
is the group.
They're highly trained.
They're very, like I said,detailed, but they're in 48

(01:02:19):
countries.
So you may go to someonenon-Meditherm and then you go to
somebody else non-meditherm.
Maybe they have the exact samecamera.
They can't compare your firstto your second.
Something very important to sayabout thermography Thermography
is more valuable the moreimaging you get.

(01:02:40):
So when a woman comes in forbreast thermography we image, I
always recommend they come backin three months.
So three months breast cancercells will double in a
three-month period.
Really.
So if we see somethingsuspicious, I often recommend an

(01:03:02):
ultrasound.
If there's a lump, you know,first off, but if we see
something that's you knowsuspicious concerning, three
months later it would bemagnified like more as I use the
term angiogenesis, more bloodvessels.
It's very webbing looking likeyou can literally see the blood
vessels.

(01:03:22):
They're like orange bloodvessels sometimes that they're
so obvious.
They're like orange bloodvessels sometimes that they're
so obvious.
So three months later thatthose two established the
baseline.
If there's no change orpositive change, then then we go
once a year after that.
So your first thermography, Isay get one.

(01:03:44):
Then get one three months later.
If we're looking at breast,okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
And then once a year thereafter, fantastic.
It's good and helpful just tobe able to picture what that
process is like.
So I know you've got to getgoing soon, so we'll start
wrapping up.
But a couple other things Iwant to ask you.
So I'm trying to put myself inthe shoes of the listener, and
obviously I'm not female, but ifI'm imagining I'm trying to
tell my doctor or family memberor somebody that I'm just I'm
going to decline the mammogram.

(01:04:10):
So give the listener someconfidence to kind of reason
with or stand up to their doctor.
What might they even say todeal with kind of the emotions
or opinions of other people intheir life who might question
their decision to skip that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
And what would you say to them?
People many people,unfortunately, are people
pleasers and I think these lastfour years, people are starting
to stand up a little bit and Ithink that there was a line
drawn in the sand, really, andit's the no, I'm going to stand
up for myself or no, I'm goingto do what you want.
People need to start standingup for themselves.
Nobody else is going to standup for you, like you've got to

(01:04:54):
stand up for yourself.
So if you've had pressure fromfamily members or from a doctor,
fire the doctor.
I mean, people are firing theirfamilies over the last four
years.
Fire the darn doctor, likethere is no point.
Go to somebody who will honorand respect your medical freedom
.
They are coming out more now,um, but I don't trust all of
them.
I'm not going to lie.

(01:05:14):
I'm like you know everybody'sjumping on the bandwagon.
I was always.
I'm like no, you weren't.
I saw what you posted a longtime ago when you were all for
like making people do stuff.
So do your research.
Do not do anything blindly.
Make sure you get that park youDo.
You know the risks?
Do you know the benefits?

(01:05:35):
Do you have questions to ask?
If that doctor can't answerthem, go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Thank you.
Yes, I have used the phrasefire your doctor for a long time
and it's like people are like Ican't disobey my doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I know like yes, you can and you should.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Yes, that person is supposed to work for you, that's
right.
You are the one giving them ajob, and if they're not doing it
, well then fire them.
Like it's not hard to findsomebody else, like Dr Kelly,
who could help you.
Yes absolutely All right.
So what I appreciate about youis just that you have your.
You broadens the naturopathicprinciple of treat the whole
person even more than thedefinition you.

(01:06:12):
You included mental, emotionaland spiritual.
So talk to us about how thatplays out in your work with
clients.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
So I do ask my, my clients about their spiritual
health and and I have to admityou know well I see.
So, just so you know, I seeclients from all over the
country so it's not just localand my naturopathic side so.
I kind of have two sides.
I have my thermography side,which obviously I have to be in
person, and we do that inRaleigh, north Carolina still,
and we do it in Florida, um, butit is, you know, super, super

(01:06:48):
important that people arefinding kind of a, a like-minded
community and, um, searchingout what makes them tick from a
spiritual level.
And I, you know, to each hisown.
I'm not going to be there todefine what that needs to be.

(01:07:09):
Mm-hmm.
You know I I am a believer inGod and I believe that, you know
, spirituality is a very crucial, probably the top of the tier
in importance, and too manypeople are lacking it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yeah, no, I as a coach, I love that because my my
work is I'm I'm used to beingin the trenches with people and
once you kind of clarify a planof action and you set out to do
the hard work of lifestylechange, right, because at some
point we have to address thelifestyle and habitual ruts that
make you sick.
But if we don't have aworldview that holds water, if
we have a gross wound ofinadequacy or lack of purpose or

(01:07:52):
unworthiness, or if we have a,all of this is just cruel and we
don't have hope to anchor tothat.
You cannot separate mental,emotional, physical, spiritual
from each other.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
They're so intertwined to your physical
health and you can see yourpoint you swallow all of the
supplements every doctor willtake and be no better off
because.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And I see that all the time because I'll see people
after they've been to sixfunctional doctors and.
I'm like well, how are weaddressing these other levels?
And I think we're addressingthe physical level wrong.
So you know, and they all haveto be a player.
But I have found that that ifthe spiritual component isn't

(01:08:31):
there, it's like it's an uphillbattle.
Really.
Is Flounder or you did flounder, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Yeah, yeah, Okay.
So finally let's just wrap up.
So how to help the listenerthink holistically here, because
this is you're, you're soaligned with how I think and
what what we try to do forpeople.
But where might a good coach orother practitioner be an asset
or maybe a linchpin that theymight not think of to really
help them find success?
That would otherwise elude them.
Or I guess what I'm saying is,if you had to, you know one or

(01:08:59):
two other types of health gurus.
Basically, you're working atputting together your own, A
team to kind of fill out theapproach to the whole person,
right, Because none of us knowseverything.
Who or what do you think mightmake the biggest difference for
people that they may not beconsidering?

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
So you know I can't be there for my clients as much
as you know they may need and Ido my best and I'm very
accessible.
But you know, a health coach, alike-minded health coach, like
I said.
Like I use like-minded becausethese last four years really
have changed everything.
So a like-minded health coach.

(01:09:35):
If there's somebody who canliterally make it easier for you
to be successful and hold youaccountable, it's everything.
It's everything you accountable.
It's everything, it's everythingI do my best, but I you know,
having like a dedicated healthcoach is so important, is so

(01:09:56):
important, and whether it benutrition, whether it be, you
know, exercise, whether it justbe lifestyle in general, like
reducing stress, you know all ofthose giving them actionable
items on a day-to-day basis.
So, that's my number one.
Number two, you're welcome.
I believe heavily in healthcoaches, and so my husband is a

(01:10:19):
trained health coach.
He is also a medical massagetherapist, but he specializes in
craniosacral.
So that's all part of you knowour interest and importance in
our, in our work together.
But the next is anacupuncturist.
I love Chinese medicine.
I think it is so.
I think it gets into people.

(01:10:42):
That may not be the right term,but it gets into their deeper
levels that maybe they can'taccess so easily and kind of
loosens things up, whether it'shormonal imbalance or blockages

(01:11:04):
of.
I think a good, you know masterof science in oriental medicine
, msom, is fantastic on the teamand I love a good, like-minded
MD.
They are hard to come by, nokidding by, but someone who will

(01:11:25):
honor my training which is, youknow, surpasses most of theirs,
but someone who truly wantsteamwork.
You know, it's not aboutstepping on toes, it's about
filling in where we're neededand knowing we're all working
for the same goal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Yep, no, I can hardly agree.
That's why I'm tickled to deathto be able to work with Dr
Gessling.
It just finally.
It's somebody I trust whovalues aligned, who gets it, who
sees the medical industrialcomplex for what it is and wants
to help people.
Yeah, it's, it's so nice.
That's a, that's a great,well-rounded A-team.
I like the acupuncture frametoo, because often they're I
still don't even understand itthat much, but they're trained

(01:12:08):
in reading the pulse.
Like there's so many differentlevels at which they have
developed, like it's amazingwhat they can tell you.
Yeah, the tongue, the pulse.
There's like ways they can readthings about what's going on in
your body, Similar tothermography.
It's like there's actionableinformation waiting for you if
you just know how to read it.
So great, great answer.
Okay, well, let people knowwhere they can find you, follow

(01:12:28):
your work, all that sort ofstuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Absolutely so.
Easiest is my overall businessis Liberty Natural Wellness, and
that's the literal website,wwwlibertynaturalwellnesscom.
That talks about thermography.
I do have a separate websitefor my thermography because I
like it to be shown as a.

(01:12:52):
It's a standalone.
You do not have to be mynaturopathic client to do
thermography and vice versa.
I keep them very separate.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
I have a number of clients that do both, but I like
to keep them very separate.
But um, northwest Floridathermography and it's
nwfloridathermographycom, and Ido free 15 minute Zoom calls for
my naturopathic side.
Or if somebody has questionsabout thermography I'm happy to
do it for them too.
So I do free 15 minutes to.

(01:13:20):
I give no medical advice inthose, that's just to see.
I call it medical speed dating.
It's like are we a good matchfor one another?
Let's see.
Like are you someone I amwilling to accept Because I'm
I'm kind of a stickler for who Iaccept?
Like you've got to be ready,motivated and and really be, you
know, ready to move forward,cause we move kind of fast but

(01:13:43):
um, but I want to give peoplethat opportunity.
They should also beinterviewing me.
Am I the right fit for them,just like are they the right fit
for me?
So people can schedule right onmy website for those.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Well, and one other thing I'll highlight that you
guys may have picked up by nowis that she never used the word
patient.
She always referred to hercustomers as clients, which I
love.
So tell people why you do that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
So they need to be accountable.
In a patient, it has beeningrained in people's heads that
patient doctor, you fix me.
And my goal is no, you fixyourself.
I'm just giving you the roadmap.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Yeah, love it.
Okay well, Dr Kelly, thank youso much for taking the time
today.
It's been a pleasure to spendtime with you and I'll look
forward to talking to you againsoon.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
This has been a blast .
I appreciate the opportunity.
Christian.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
All right, talk to you later.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Okay, bye.