Dr. Peter Breggin: Brain Hijackers - The Dehumanizing Truth About Psych Meds, Methylene Blue, and Profit-Driven Crimes of Psychiatry - Deconstructing Conventional

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone.
Welcome to episode number 54.
My guest today is the one andonly Dr Peter Bregan.
If you know him, you know it'snot flattery to say he is one of
a kind.
Just in studying for thisepisode, I had the impossible
task of figuring out what tohighlight about this remarkable
man.
His so-called brief bio isseveral pages long and his full

(00:22):
bio is 31 pages.
He is a lifelong psychiatristand his list of psychiatric
reform accomplishments goes backseven decades and not
surprisingly, it is also severalpages long.
So of the many things I couldhighlight about him, two that
made it into this interview arethat he has been an expert
witness testifying againstpharmaceutical companies in over

(00:43):
100 court cases.
He is also the man responsiblefor putting an end to the formal
practice of frontal lobotomiesand in case you don't know about
that barbaric practice, I gothim to explain it during the
interview.
Aptly, dr Bregan has becomeknown as the conscience of
psychiatry and you would thinkthat would be kind of a natural
feature of the profession butsadly, as you'll hear, it

(01:05):
doesn't seem to be.
Dr Bregan has been calling outmedical corruption and specific
to his industry that meansmedical mutilation and medical
poisoning since 1954.
I've been following his workfairly closely since COVID
started, and one thing that hasrepeatedly stood out to me is
that he seems to have aremarkably high pain tolerance,
because he is not afraid to callpeople out or to testify

(01:28):
against big pharma.
He has taken so many arrows andyet he does not back down from
a fight, and this interviewended up unfolding kind of
roughly in three stages.
So it started with me askinghim to tell us the story of how
he got into psychiatry, and inthe process of telling that
story it became clear what haskept him in it.
His own childhood and histeenage years birthed in him the

(01:51):
role of being an advocate forpeople who didn't have one, and
his time working in a psych wardin a hospital at the age of 18
set him on the course from whichhe never looked back.
So after telling that story, wepivoted to one of his areas of
deep expertise, and that is thetopic of psychiatric medications
.
So if you or someone you careabout is on a psych med,

(02:12):
especially if you have kids onthem, you do not want to miss
this interview.
It may literally save your lifeor theirs.
In episode 24, I actuallyinterviewed Kim Witzak, who lost
her husband to suicide shortlyafter he started taking Zoloft,
a so-called antidepressant whichhis doctor prescribed not for
depression but for sleep.

(02:32):
And psychiatric medications arebeing handed out like candy
today and, as you'll hear DrBregan talk about, they are
exceedingly dangerous.
So he and I talked about whoinvented the phrase chemical
imbalance and the irony that itis the medications that hijack
the brain and create a chemicalimbalance.
We talked about why Dr Breganwould argue that all psychiatric

(02:54):
medications are neurotoxinsthat damage the brain, all of
them so related to that.
We also talked about one of thecurrent darlings of health pop
culture, methlene blue.
He has what I think is a veryimportant take on the substance,
including its origins, what itinhibits in the brain and how it
became the base of many oftoday's top psychiatric

(03:14):
medications.
He also calls out Robert FKennedy Jr quite strongly in the
episode.
So I'll have a couple of linksfor you in the show notes where
you can learn more about histhoughts on methylene blue.
Another important topic wetalked about was the concept of
medication spellbinding, whichis where a person loses the
ability to perceive the damage amedication is doing and they

(03:40):
actually come to perceive thebrain's impairment as a sign
that the drug is helping them.
Not surprisingly, so manypeople have a hard time coming
off psychiatric medications.
In fact they are the hardestclass of medications to come off
of.
But it is possible.
So he didn't have time tounpack his holistic philosophy
of what it takes to wean offmedications, so we talked about
doing a follow-up episode tounpack that in more detail.
But for now I can refer you tohis great book, which I have

(04:03):
called Psychiatric DrugWithdrawal, where the second
half of the book is dedicated tohelping people come off these
medications.
The third section of ourinterview got into the
philosophical waters of what itmeans to be human and what makes
life sweet or bitter, and hehas what he calls five primary
principles that he lives by, andthe first one is dare to trust

(04:25):
in a loving God.
So wait until you hear what hehas to say about that principle,
coming from a lifelongintellectual who spent a career
needing to argue for what hebelieves in a courtroom.
What does it mean to dare totrust?
So I won't spoil it for you,but I'll have some more links in
the show notes where you canlearn more about Dr Bregan and
his work.
So, like any good man and thework that he does, there is

(04:48):
always a sturdy, unflappablewoman in his corner who is the
reason he is able to do what hedoes.
That is certainly true in myhousehold, and it is in Dr
Bregan's world as well.
So thank you, ginger, for whatyou have done to keep this man
engaged and helping us all.
You are both a bigger blessingthan you will ever know.
Okay, without further ado, hereis an interview with a man I

(05:09):
deeply admire on so many levels.
I give you Dr Peter Bregan Allright.
Hello everyone, welcome totoday's show.
It is my delight to have one ofmy living heroes, dr Peter
Bregan, on the show, and forthose of you who have not heard
of him, I guess I'd describe himas one of the bravest and most
intelligent people I've ever met.
So he is a lifelongpsychiatrist and author.

(05:30):
He's written, by my count, atleast 20 books.
He's been an expert witness inmore than 100 court cases
related to the damages done bypsychiatric medications.
He has his own show On AmericaOut Loud and is a prolific
writer on Substack with his blogcalled Bregan Alerts, exposing
Global Predators, where hewrites about all things health,

(05:50):
covid and freedom, and I don'tthink you'll find a man with a
more impressive resume yet.
He is very humble and caringand down to earth, and he's
basically the man I want to bewhen I grow up.
So, bregan, thank you so muchfor coming on the show today.
I'm delighted to have you here.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
You look very grown up and you look very intelligent
and I suspect you have quite abit of courage Actually, for the
people that you like, thatwe're close with.
I mentioned Catherine AustinFitz and you mentioned Lee Valit
, and to interview those peopleis to be brave in itself, so I'm
sure you're doing a good jobfor us out there in the world.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, thank you very much for those kind words.
Well, I'm as interested just inwhat got you into psychiatry as
what kept you in it.
So before we get into today'stopic about the dangers of
psychiatry, I guess talk aminute about who Peter Bregan is
.
I'm embarrassed to admit I havesome clients who don't know who
you are.
So, if you don't mind, I'd lovefor you to start, maybe, with
the story of kind of being, thewide-eyed 18-year-old who was

(06:52):
getting permission from thehospital superintendent to work
with the institutionalizedpeople that most had just
written off.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So maybe tell us that I'm 89 years old.
I'm going to start earlier evenbecause I had this really
astonishing early life careerthat came out of the blue and
and depressed.
I've been raised by a nanny whowas forced to leave when I was

(07:27):
five and I was just slightlybewildered.
But I look at a picture ofmyself in that sixth grade
yearbook and I've got this biggrin on my face and the yearbook
I'm elected president and theysay I'm very witty.

(07:49):
And that was the beginning, outof the blue, that I might be
somebody in some way, and thatnever ended.
I was president of the homeroomand that was the class.
But then sixth grade, seventhgrade, eighth grade, I was

(08:09):
president of my freshman class,my sophomore class, vice
president of my junior year,editor of the newspaper.
I had wonderful friends.
I looked really successful andI was dreadfully sad inside and
I did a lot of reading on my ownand I was very aware of this

(08:33):
was in a very Jewish community.
It was a new Jewish communitycoming into a Christian
community out on the south shoreof Long Island Hewlett-Woodmere
, lindbergh, the five towns Allthe people around me who were
friends were Jewish.
And then we had other friends.
It was how it just separatedout in those days.

(08:55):
It's quite interesting to thinkback to it and the young people
I knew were, as a group, thebrightest I would ever meet.
I mean, they were all just fullof stuff and they were
interesting and exciting and wewere friends and I was a
defender because Jews generallyalthough certainly in our class

(09:16):
they were tough Jews because youknow, half the class was Jewish
and some of them terrificathletes I was somewhat of an
athlete.
Half the class was Jewish andsome of them terrific athletes I
was somewhat of an athlete butI was a defender of anybody who
messed with my classmates, all5'4", 135 pounds of me, to the

(09:39):
extent that nobody messed withmy friends and part of it was
rooted in a sense.
I got very early when and I'vetalked about this on the air
before, so I like to think ofnew ways to talk about it but
basically I was watching afamily movie when I was nine
years old.
At the theater my mother andfather were with me.
I have no idea what we weregoing to see and movie tone news

(10:03):
put on the invasion of Europeand the liberation of the first
extermination camp the firstfilms out and I had no idea
about this and none of myfriends in this broad.
We never talked about theHolocaust.
Our parents didn't want us toknow.

(10:24):
I don't think Growing up, eveninto high school, nobody talked
about it.
I can remember a singleconversation about it and it was
overwhelming to watch this.
Dead Jews in piles, deaf deadJews hanging on wires and stuff
like that.
And then it became a doublewhammy.

(10:46):
My not very empathic uncle,married into the family, had
been a liberator at one of thecamps.
He loved the war.
He loved telling me littlestories of people getting shot
and killed and all these kindsof things.
He'd risen up from being like astorekeeper to an officer in

(11:08):
the army and he had thosequalities and they really came
out.
I don't think he was ever fullyfulfilled again, but he showed
me photographs that he took of atorture chamber in vivid detail
that I've never disclosed toanybody else, not even my wife,
and I think that those twothings built in me a choice Am I

(11:31):
going to be scared or am Igoing to be mad?
Am I going to be frightened oram I going to stand up for
myself?
What am I going to do when theday comes, and I had nobody to
talk to about it.
So this connects directly to myfreshman year at Harvard.
I was into an honors program atHarvard.

(11:52):
I mean I was really good comingfrom a public school and it was
American history and literature.
I had no idea.
It's really ironic because thathas really helped me in what I
do now in looking at politics.
But I only had two years ofthat because I eventually went
pre-med.
But a friend of mine asked me tocome out and volunteer at the

(12:14):
state mental hospital.
His brother had started aprogram there, harvard Radcliffe
Mental Hospital VolunteerProgram.
We had people from otherschools, like Brandeis, driving
in and going to the state mentalhospital volunteer program.
We had people from otherschools like Brandeis driving in
and going to the state mentalhospital with different cars.
They're all under our programand eventually I would lead the
program for a couple of yearsand have an impact on organized

(12:38):
psychiatry to some extent andgot write-ups in big newspapers,
magazines, got write-ups inmental health programs, not
necessarily about me but aboutour program.
And there's a picture of mesomewhere in the Saturday
evening post kneeling beside apatient holding her hand on the

(12:59):
women's violent war atMetropolitan State Hospital.
So way back then I was involved.
But the striking thing was thatthe minute I got inside and
maybe even from the answer, butthe minute I got inside the
state mental health hospital itwas an extermination
concentration camp.

(13:19):
The images, the smell.
My uncle told me about thestench, the stench of these
things.
It was better or worse than anymovie you've ever seen of the
snake pits.
It was 1954.
It would take another year orso for the antipsychotic drugs
to come in.
So the patients still showedfeelings.

(13:41):
So it was really.
Many of them were battered byshock treatment, by lobotomy, by
insulin, coma poisoning, and soI started working in the worst
hell in America, the statemental hospital, the worst
expression of psychiatry thestate mental hospital.
Later I would learn that theHolocaust actually grew out of

(14:06):
psychiatry in the state mentalhospitals.
Yeah.
And I wrote a scientific paperon it and delivered it in
Germany at the first medicalconference in Germany ever on
medicine in the Third Reich.
I became so knowledgeable and Iwrote a good article about it.
So knowledgeable and I wrote agood article about it, and that

(14:30):
organized psychiatry startedmurdering its patients.
Who was planning it?
Before Hitler had any power.
They were planning how theycould murder their patients if
they could just set it up rightand they called it useless.
They called patients uselesseaters.
And I didn't know at the time.
But it's a part of socialism,it's a part of collectivism,

(14:51):
it's part of big government towant to depopulate people.
And this was also tied in, ofcourse, to anti-semitism.
But here they're doing.
They didn't even do the jews.
They didn't give euthanasia toJews, they didn't deserve it.
They gave euthanasia to theirown populations.
Couldn't bump back and forthhere, but it all ties in, I hope

(15:11):
, with the big paintbrush.
Yeah.
And so I started to see what wasgoing on, because, maybe
because I had been depressedpretty much totally until age 12
and then only mildly ormoderately or up and down or

(15:33):
something thereafter, untilginger in my 40s, I really found
happiness.
It's really interesting, but Iwas always, you know, doing
things, and part of why I wantto tell people about my success
is because I'm also tellingpeople how much I was suffering
inside.
But it wasn't like I wasineffective.
Yeah, I was ineffective with mylove life, but not with the
rest of it.
Yeah, man that is such richcontext.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
I didn't know much of any of that.
No Well to hear the part about.
I heard about the part aboutthe hospitals and how you made a
big difference there.
But you just preemptivelyanswered my next question, which
is just where did you get yourpain, tolerance for standing up
against big systems and whatkeeps you going?
And I can, I can already sensethe answer to that now just from

(16:18):
hearing that story.
Is there anything else you wantto add to that?
What do you sense, want to addto that?
What do you sense?
I just sense that you're you asa kid.
You had a your own appearanceof success, yet feeling empty or
feeling like you weren'tmeasuring up.
And then you see that in thefaces of other people.
Then you see the holocaust.
Then you see institutionalized,essentially depopulation.

(16:42):
You see, see hospitals aresupposed to do, they're opposite
of it and the conscience camealive.
It sounds like.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
The conscience is already alive and that's part of
the being sad and depressed.
You know the sensitive.
I had one or two wonderfulprofessors of psychiatry Most of
them, they have to be socorrupt to participate in this
system.
But one was Thomas Zoss,s-e-a-s-s-e, and Tom used to say

(17:12):
if you weren't suicidal as anadolescent, you weren't a
sensitive human being.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Wow, that's one way to put it Okay.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
But yes, and it sort of built into me, I'm absolutely
alone dealing with theholocaust in my head and I'm
going through all thealternatives and out of that
comes, nobody will do that to me.
I'll die.
Kill him first, killed whateverit is.

(17:44):
No one will humiliate me likethat.
I wasn't so much afraid ofdeath, it was like we're so
humiliating.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I never realized that before I wasn't thinking about
they'll kill me.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
It was like they will never, do anything.
Yeah, it was a shot at yourdignity that you wouldn't allow.
Yes, yes, I actually got a chilljust thinking about that.
I had not realized that tillnow and to this day I don't fear
death in particular, but I suredon't want anybody messing with
my dignity myself, my lovedones and so on.

(18:19):
So there's this kind of mixthat evolves, and the program I

(18:42):
was so successful in it.
I was giving lectures as anundergraduate.
I had my first publication in aYale review of some sort, a
university for paper I gave onvolunteering.
My first book started to bewritten and I would eventually
come out as a co-author, butthey would sanitize the book
that I started.
The book that I started wasState Mental Hospital's Hell
Holes and we brought love intoit and it was neither the hell
hole nor the love was in thesanitized book that came out.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Right, that doesn't count as many drugs.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I went into psychiatry to reform it.
Why not?
I'm 18, 19 years old.
When I get involved I'mdiscovering that these people
well, I knew this and then Iwalked in.
That the patients were nodifferent from me.
That's one thing.
I knew this and then I walkedin.
That the patients were nodifferent from me, that's one
thing that I knew immediatelyand I can't tell you why that

(19:28):
was, other than my own sadness.
But maybe I got touched withempathy by God.
I'm not sure how this all works.
Honestly, we are reallythinking about it me and Ginger
a lot lately.
We've been married 42 years now.
We're thinking a lot about ourblessings and our good fortune
and how does this all happen?
Why are we alive?
How did we stay from beingkilled?

(19:50):
Good questions, interestingconversation in the evenings.
But you know, I've been onradio God.
I even was on a Voice ofAmerica in high school for an
editorial I wrote praising theUN.

(20:10):
I read it on Voice of America.
I was naturally left wing, asany good young person is, and I
was naturally being rewarded byit getting on the Voice of
America.
No idea what your politics are,but I actually thought I could

(20:31):
go into psychiatry in some wayand reform it.
And there were wings ofpsychiatry.
I didn't know they'd all bedead in five years or ten years.
For most One wing was like acommunist wing, a left wing
years.
For most One wing was like acommunist wing, a left wing,
where you know you explainmental illness by illness in the
community, by illness in thesociety, and there were people

(20:54):
talking about that.
Then there were people who wereless political but they talked
about community psychiatry.
We have to improve ourcommunities.
Then there was psychoanalyticpsychiatry, where you had to
understand people.
There were branches and I wentinto psychiatry thinking that I
was going to do some combinationmaybe of community and

(21:19):
psychoanalytic or something.
But I didn't think it was goingto make a big difference in
psychiatry.
I thought you have I'm not surehow much I have stopped more or
less lobotomy.
Then from there on we have tokind of wonder.
But I have been working at itand lobotomy is going to come
back as soon as I'm gone.

(21:39):
I already have them saying wejust got to get rid of him.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Wow, Okay.
Well, for people who don't know, you're one of the reasons why
frontal lobotomies are now nothappening.
So for people who don't know—.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Rarely rarely.
They hide them now?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Okay, well, tell people what one is, because I
think when we get to the termchemical lobotomy, it'll mean
more to the listener.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, and I've talked enough about it myself
specifically.
Yeah, and I've talked enoughabout it myself specifically.
Psychiatry had its onlyrevolution in the 1930s.
The revolution was theyrealized that if they damaged
the brain they could make theirpatients docile.

(22:20):
That is the only revolutionwe've ever had in psychiatry and
the endpoint of all psychiatrictreatments is docility.
It's a blessing if you're inthe hospital to the nurses, and
sometimes it's a blessing toyour family if you've been very
difficult or they're veryviolent, and sometimes it's a

(22:44):
blessing to yourself because youthink you're not suffering
anymore.
Yeah, but it's never becauseyou've been made more powerful.
Psychiatry never makes you morepowerful.
It never makes you able tothink better.
It always messes with yourbrain and it has to be
distinguished from psychotherapy, which is no longer done by

(23:05):
psychiatrists.
The psychoanalytic wing is gone, so they don't even teach you
to talk.
They teach you you can't talkto schizophrenia.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Now really the exact only way you can help them is
with a chemical intervention atthis point.
Is that instantly yes?

Speaker 3 (23:21):
and very fast as possible in the emergency room
preferably and tell them theycan never come off.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Wow, okay, so frontal lobotomy.
For my understanding of it,there's a probe under the eye
that goes up into the brain.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (23:34):
that's one way, that's one avenue.
So in the 30s we getelectroshock treatment.
Okay, everybody knows what thatis.
I think you blast your brain,poor patient's brain.
You send them into a coma withconvulsions.
You do it in the old days withjust enough electricity to cause

(23:57):
that.
Nowadays why they claim it'ssafer you do it with eight to
ten times the electricity neededto cause the coke.
It's built in a machine.
You can't even do the lighteramounts.
So you give a person enoughelectricity to mimic an
extremely severe blow on thehead from smashing your head

(24:20):
into the windshield of your carand then you are knocked out and
you have convulsions.
Maybe you always have them.
With electricity you haveconvulsions makes them worse.
So not only is your braininjured, it's going flatline for
a time and then convulsing, orgoing flatline in some weird
combinations.
It's awful.

(24:40):
Into that picture a man namedMoniz.
Into that picture a man namedMoniz M-O-N-I-Z in Portugal in
1938, decides that he's going toopen the heads of his patients
he's a psychiatrist I'm tryingto remember what he exacted in
vet schools, he's more like aneurologist and to open their

(25:04):
heads surgically and slice anddice the front of the brain.
And he invents an instrumentthat's sort of curved with a
wire like a dicer, and he dicesinto the front of the brain.
It's particularly what's calledthe prefrontal cortex.
It's particularly what's calledthe prefrontal cortex.

(25:26):
Now, the prefrontal cortex isin front of the frontal lobes
and it is the surface area.
That's the cortex, the surfacearea, and it's where the finest
tuning things take place ofcivilization.
The whole frontal lobes is likethe embodiment of civilization

(25:46):
in us.
It is, it's the largest lobe,it's what gives us in comparison
, say, monkeys or dogs or apes,a bulging forehead.
Walter Freeman really likedthis a lot.
He was a brutal psychiatrist.
Everybody respected him orfeared him.

(26:08):
He was in America, so he tookthis over America.
He did 5,000 of these and hedid them like a monster.
He would get a little10-year-old girl in his office,
tell mom she needed an lobotomyon the first visit, give her
shock treatment to knock her out, and take a dirty ice pick and

(26:32):
slip.
This is the last time you'llhear me be like this today.
I won't.
Don't stop listening.
Take a dirty ice pick, slip itaround the eyeball and punch it
through the very thin bonebehind the eye and swoosh it
Gosh A monster.
And then he would do shows atstate hospitals around the

(26:54):
country.
He was never confronted, neverthreatened, until I came along,
which is quite bizarre.
As far as I know, he never hada lawsuit against him until I
came along is quite bizarre.
As far as I know, he never hada lawsuit against him until I
came along and he would do ashow, sometimes like like a glad
, you know, like a bull guy, youknow, tormenting the bull in

(27:14):
the ring he put two ice picks toonce and swish him around.
People know that he barelywiped them between the patients
wheel wheel in and out.
Wow, one split second of thatice pick.
One split second it revocablychanged a full human being into

(27:36):
a sham.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Hmm, yeah, what a process.
Well, so that that's the.
That's what a lobotomy is,friends.
And when you hear him describe,as we go on, what a chemical
lobotomy modern psychiatric medsare, now you have a context for
that all modern psychiatricmeds, all psychiatric meds,
starting with the very mostpowerful ones, originally were

(27:59):
invented.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
All psychiatric meds tamper with, and either
over-activate or suppress,nerves that go throughout the
brain.
Some of them focus on the mainpathway to the frontal lobes,
and those are the so-calledantipsychotic drugs.

(28:24):
They're not ant-psychotic atall.
They do the same thing to anormal animal or chimpanzee as
they do to people.
They take away your ability tobe yourself, to be energized, to
be loving, to be caring, to behateful, maybe not to be angry.
Some can still get angry.
I think it's a lower phenomenon.
Judgment's gone, self-insightis gone.

(28:45):
You can communicate, andsometimes sensitively, and I've
done it with patients to whomthat has been done.
But it is so sad, it is soincredibly sad to try to do it.
It's like a tragedy.
You're like in a tragedy.
It's like you're helping a soulcome through a damaged brain.

(29:07):
That's what it feels like.
It feels like I see you there.
I see you there, but they can'tget out.
And this is, in fact, whathappens to many patients who are
routinely on antidepressants,on stimulants, mood altering
drugs, people who love them,routinely on antidepressants, on
stimulants, mood-altering drugs, people who love them and this

(29:31):
could be somebody here I'mtalking to now, somebody who's
just on routine psych drugs.
You may not even know thatyou're not quite there.
But, if you've got a drug thatis changing your brain.
It is not helping your brain,it's making it a little less
functional.
You can recover.

(29:51):
I've written a book PsychiatricDrug Withdrawal and you don't
want to stop your medsautomatically because it's too
dangerous, and I'll tell youmore about the book and the
principles later, if we get achance.
But right now we're talkingabout the book and the
principles, later if we get achance.
But right now we're talkingabout the horror.
Um, I'll give you a, an example, a very simple example for

(30:14):
myself.
Benadryl is used in psychiatry alot.
It's used because it impactscertain areas of the brain that
the psychiatric drugs impair andthey're sometimes used to try
to reverse things that the drugsdo.
Because it impacts certainareas of the brain that the
psychiatric drugs impair andthey're sometimes used to try to
reverse things that the drugsdo, because it's doing the same
thing but differently to theseregions.

(30:35):
So Benadryl is a bigantihistamine, which are where
some of the just to tie ittogether, a lot of the
antipsychotic drugs are derivedfrom antihistamines.
Originally I would take aBenadryl because I have had some
asthma it's almost gone now,really it's gone now and

(30:56):
allergies some allergies, mostlygone now and I would take it at
night and then I would get upin the morning and I would get
irritable with ginger as Iwithdrew from the Benadryl in
the morning or was still toxicor both, because you can be

(31:18):
toxic and didn't withdraw andI'd get irritable and she'd say,
honey, I didn't do anythingwrong.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
That's the Benadryl talking darling.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
And I would say something yes, that's right.
She wouldn't do it grim, shewouldn't make fun of me.
She'd say I think it's theBenadryl.
And.
I'd say I'd do some insight butI'd be a little foggy coming
out of the Benadryl and I'd sayI'm sorry and work on it.
And then the second or thirdday I got it and I've never

(31:52):
taken Benadryl again.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Good for you Well talk to us about the part of the
brilliance of thepharmaceutical companies.
Was that two-word phrasechemical imbalance?
So talk about the concept of achemical imbalance.
Is that a strictly a marketingthing, or is it just a?
Well, it's a goddamn fraud.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
They'd never, they'd never.
They oh god, how they didn'twant me in a courtroom talking
about this stuff.
I wouldn't say a goddamn fraud.
I'll say it's totally untrue.
It's a marketing ploy to.
The only imbalance thatactually occurs in the brains of
people who are going routinelyto psychiatrists is the first

(32:34):
drug dose.
That's a violent biochemicalimbalance, induced instantly as
soon as it gets into your bloodbrain and gets into your
bloodstream.
Then it crosses the barrier ofthe brain.
The brain is crafted to beprotected from trauma by a skull

(32:55):
and by some water there thatgets into the brain and other
things meninges and by a privatecirculatory system.
It sort of says hey, I'm thebrain, I'm not going to relate
to all the junk you put in yourcirculatory system and I'm not

(33:15):
supposed to.
So you've got to get into thecirculatory system the moment a
neurotoxin enters.
And all psychiatric drugs areneurotoxins and they knew it in
the beginning.
Now they don't teach it anymore.
But it's still true.
They give the same drugs andthey don't say it's a neurotoxin

(33:36):
.
Once it gets through theblood-brain barrier it is going
to routinely wash over all theneurons in the brain, wash
through the.
You know it just goeseverywhere.
It's a fluid in a biologicalsoft process.
So now some drugs will be moreattracted to one place or

(34:00):
another, but they're goingeverywhere.
The frontal lobes are huge.
Any drug that's affecting thebrain is going to affect the
frontal lobes directly orindirectly.
Dopamine is the mainneurotransmitter system to the
frontal lobes, but serotonin I'msorry, but serotonin goes

(34:23):
everywhere.
So if you just look at twodifferent drug groups, you look
at the antipsychotics and whatwas quickly learned back in
1950s when they were discoveredwas they stop up some basic
system.
They didn't know it wasdopamine in the basal ganglia of
the brain, dopamine in thebasal ganglia of the brain, just

(34:48):
like a disease they recognizedcalled large encephalitis, large
, large.
I think I'm the only doc whoever wrote a full paper on this
and delivered it in statement.
I suppose that there is thisdisease.
They knew of Lethargicencephalitis.
It spread around the world atthe end of the Spanish flu and
then disappeared.

(35:08):
It's a kind of a mysterydisease.
Still not sure exactly whatcaused it.
Most people think it's a virus,but it doesn't have the same
infectious qualities it didn't.
But it made people lethargicand apathetic.
And then it affected the partof the brain below the frontal
lobes called the basal gangliawhere coordination takes place,

(35:31):
where, whether you can reachproperly and speak properly,
anything that involves anyvoluntary muscle, whether you
breathe properly, it's allcoming out of there and that got
disrupted and they'd have hugeneurological conferences.
This flu-like syndrome thatmade people apathetic, gave them

(35:53):
all these weird things,sometimes made them psychotic,
sometimes killed them, sometimesdidn't.
They've got textbooks on it anddoctors don't even know it
existed.
And they saw that and they saidwhen we give thorazine, the
first big drug, thorazine, youstill can get that.
In an emergency room inparticular, I feel like I'm a

(36:15):
little nutty, a little scary, um, that you get all the same
symptoms.
Wow.
And so they said and they wrotethis we could.
We realized we could causevirtually an epidemic of this

(36:37):
kind of lethargic encephalitisby just giving out the medicine.
Well, within one year to twoyears, every single state
hospital in the world wassubdued by Thorazine, haldol,
and they're still being given topeople and derivatives of it,
like Afilify, vega, zyprexa,seroquel you'll take for sleep.

(37:02):
There's a whole raft of drugs.
You can Google dopamineblockers.
You'll find some things thatare used for nausea.
They're dopamine blockers.
All of them can all cause thisarray of distortions.
And now on television you'llsee them making money from drugs

(37:26):
that are used to control TD.
You see this on television.
They're horrible drugs.
I would avoid them, even if youhave TD, unless you're an
extremist, because TD candisable you.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
TD is what?
For people who don't know?
It's part of dyskinesia.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Delayed dyskinesia, heart of dyskinesia.
Okay, delayed dyskinesiaBecause the dyskinesia usually
takes 30 days or more before itfirst appears.
It can appear with your firstdose.
I've been in legal cases, donea lot of legal cases, oh, and
the things they do to prevent mefrom having any more legal
cases are amazing.
They must be buying off lawyersaround the world.

(38:04):
I mean, it's quite amazing.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Wow, Okay.
Well, let's rewind history alittle bit too, because you
recently did a great interviewwith Dr Lee Vliet about the
dangers of methylene blue andone of the things I didn't know
is how old it is.
So talk about the history ofthat a little bit and how it was
.
And you even made the commentit's used as a base for
medicines today.
So talk to us a little bitabout the dangers of that or
anything.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah Well, I became very concerned.
I like to think of myself as amember of the loosely affiliated
health freedom fighters.
We're glad to have you and, bythe way, this is the first group
I've been as happy to be in asI was with my Jewish friends in

(38:47):
high school, and they're allChristians.
Zedis Olenko, who is one of thepeople who did an introduction
for my book COVID-19 and theGlobal Predators one of the few
Jews who's taking strong stands.
He died.
They didn't tell him he died,he just fought through cancer to

(39:07):
keep working.
But that Christian group I'm innow is the happiest group I've
ever been in.
I mean, and so my wife'sChristian.
My mother, who we have livingwith us for nine years, is
Christian.
So I have a new personalreligion.
I'm a Jew who thinks Jesus wasthe greatest prophet of all time

(39:32):
.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
That brings up interesting conversations, for
sure.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Doesn't it, oh my God , doesn't it.
Yeah, I'm not a what do theycall the Jews Messianic Jew?

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, I'm not a messianic Jew.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
That's a different thing.
I'm actually a Jew who believesJesus was the greatest rabbi of
all time and I'm happy to havethe Christians promoting him,
because God certainly has wantedthat, or it wouldn't have
happened in such a grand way.
And, of course, the Jewseventually rejected him because
you know competition, I mean, hewas such competition, yeah, he

(40:11):
was.
And then when he became part ofthe boy is this going far
afield then?
Would he be, but it's havingfun.
Then, when Jesus, then, whenChristianity becomes part of the
Roman Empire and the Jews haveto make this big choice, are
they going to stay with Jesus,join the Roman Empire?
That's very confusing in thefirst couple of hundred years

(40:32):
after Jesus.
And so you get the leaders, theelite, just doing what they
always do they take over, theyset the rules and they set the
opposition and the Jews and theChristians.
I don't know why they even keptthis in set the rules and they
set the opposition and the Jewsand the Christians.
I don't know why they even keptus in the Bible, but they did.
They put us in the Bible withthem.
But the separation occurs andthe leadership on either side

(40:56):
dooms itself.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, that's a whole different can of worms I can get
into too.
I just recently traveled tosome of the Holy Land.
Oh my Well, let's go back tomethylene blue then.
So that is the.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
So I got concerned that my almost entirely
christian friends were promotingmethylene blue, making money
from their um, not theirpharmacies but their stores
because you don't need aprescription for methylene blue.
And they think, and many, manypeople I discovered thought

(41:32):
methylene blue was new andamazing.
But what really bothered me,and still does, is that leading
companies are selling it thatare supposed to be alternative
medicine.
And who told me they wouldnever sell anything that was a
pharmaceutical?
Even they make believe it's nota pharmaceutical, it's the

(41:56):
mother of all pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Methylene blue is literally a mother, but too
toxic to be fda proof of thatand it pred predates the FDA
because it was 1870s right whenit came out.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
That's right I think it might have been 76, 1876,
when it was discovered, it wasthe first chemical people
believed.
History is hard to know, butpeople believe it was the first
chemical made in the lab andapplied to medicine and because
of some effects that it has onthe mitochondria, which is to

(42:32):
enforce a greater uptake ofoxygen, it could be used as an
antidote to something calledmethemoglobinemia.
I don't want to bother theaudience about this very narrow
concept but basically, if theblood cells were poisoned by any

(42:56):
number of drugs that couldpoison them, the mitochondria
could pump up and make a betterutilization of what oxygen there
was.
This is seen as a miracle.
It's not a miracle.
It's an abnormality created inmitochondria functioning which

(43:17):
happens to help you if you'vebeen poisoned and you need the
mitochondria to deliver anabnormal amount of oxygen.
You see, that's the truth.
But what you hear to see thisis a miracle.
It's an abnormality thathappens to coincide and that's
it.
But what everybody is ignoringis that that's not the main

(43:38):
effect of the drug and it neverwas thought of as the main
effect.
But it did get approved as bythe fda, without testing for
safety or efficacy, justgrandfathered in.
They did the same thing withelectroshock.
That's how evil the deep stateis.
They grandfathered inelectroshock treatment to save

(43:59):
an effect that repeated blows onyour head till you wouldn't get
killed by it.
Yeah, um, and I think whathappened is that in itself,
methylene blue was so neurotoxicto the brain neurobrain toxic

(44:20):
poisons that they never coulddirectly use it.
So because you know thepharmacy people, they want to
use something no matter what andthe idea that it was too high.
Some of the people twist this.
I can understand that.
But they twist things and say,well, the FDA didn't approve it
because it was too good.

(44:40):
New drug too good, no old drugso bad that even the FDA
couldn't approve it for generaluse.
Even the FDA couldn't approveit for general use because the
FDA points out, even with itslimited use as an antidote to
poisoning, it could kill youwith a serotonin syndrome.

(45:00):
What is serotonin syndrome?
If you jack up theneurotransmitter serotonin too
much with almost anyantidepressant, certainly all
the commonly used ones, theSSRIs jack up serotonin.
It can get way out of controland you can get a severe
hyperactivity of your brain thatresults in your muscles tying

(45:25):
up while you may shake, yourbrain losing its function and
you have a hypertensive crisisand you can die of a heart
attack or have a hypertensionCave in your brain.
Really, you can't cave in yourheart.
And so the FDA has this on itswebsite.
I think I'm the first person inour whole group of whatever how

(45:48):
many hundreds who ever found it, because people don't know
enough to look.
This is my error.
In addition, methylene blue,which you can get over the
counter from too many places,jacks up everything that's
called a monohumene oxidase, anMAOI, m-a-o-i.
M-a-o-is are known forcontrolling serotonin, dopamine,

(46:15):
norepinephrine, epinephrine sothat you don't get hurt by them.
You know it's a controlmechanism.
Moan amine oxidase it'ssupposed to stop it from getting
out of control by its oxidationprocesses.
That's maybe simpler.
So it's supposed to stop itfrom getting out of control by
its oxidation processes that'smaybe simpler.
So it's supposed to inhibit.
It's called an inhibitor.

(46:37):
It's supposed to inhibit thethings that are stimulating
serotonin, dopamine, all ofwhich can make you crazy.
Epinephrine all those thingscan drive you into a psychosis,
mania and so on.
And indeed it was earlyidentified as an MAO inhibitor.

(46:58):
And so what they did was theythought to themselves, the
psychiatrists, if we tinker withit and make it less poisonous,
they had to make it lesspoisonous, had to make it less
poisonous.
We'll give it as a stimulant.
It'll make some people lessdepressed.
They'll feel less depressed.
We'll get a new stimulant.

(47:19):
We'll get a new thing we cansell, though, as an
anti-depressant.
That's what we'll tell people.
It is not just a stimulant, andI'd be.
And what happened is we had aseries of MAOI drugs.

(47:41):
The first two was so bad toactually throw them out of the
FDA.
The other three that are stillaround are almost never used
because they're so dangerous andif you make the mistake of
eating the wrong food or takingthe wrong drug and they combine,
you can die of a serotoninsyndrome.
Now, since it's not in common,use the MAOI one way to find out

(48:07):
, and it's never been studieddeeply.
Well, I do have some studies,but I'm not going to bother with
them today.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Oh, I've written all about this.
I've got your blog post aboutit.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Okay, let me just tell you folks Go to Peter and
Ginger Bregan's SubstackEmergency Notification.
This is what I wrote EmergencyNotification Cold Methylene blue
is highly neurotoxic to yourbrain and mind.
Subtitle comment Methylene blueis a monamine oxidase inhibitor

(48:40):
, maoi.
As such, it is one of the mosttoxic agents ever used in
medicine and psychiatry and themother of the most dangerous
drugs used in psychiatry.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
There you go, people.
Yeah, I appreciate youmentioning that, because several
people have reached out to measking my opinion on methylene
blue and I just have neverstudied it enough to feel
comfortable having an opinion.
And then I saw you and Dr Vliettalk about it and I'm like,
finally, people, I trust thatwould know what they're talking
about.
So thank you for talking aboutthat, and one of my

(49:12):
understandings is you couldprescribe any psychiatric med
that you want to, but you don'tprescribe any of them.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Yeah, let me get to that in a minute, I'll finish
this up.
Okay, now the FDA did studythese things.
So there is an official FDAlabel for Parnate, which is one
of the MAOI inhibitors, andbasically they all do the same,
but the studies are different,so sometimes it's a little

(49:40):
different than what they happento notice.
But this is under psychiatricdisorders, the dangers of MAOI
inhibitors for psychiatricdisorder.
For the psych term, the firstone, and that means it's the
most common one excessivestimulation, slash

(50:01):
over-excitement.
Second, manic symptoms, slashhypomania, next agitation, next
insomnia, next anxiety, thenconfusion, disorientation, loss
of libido, nervous systemdisorders, dizziness,

(50:21):
restlessness, akathisia, whichis a horrible inner torment.
Akinesia, which is sort ofstuck and unable to move.
Ataxia, which is unable to walk.
Myoclonic jerks, which are bigjerks, tremors, hyperreflexia,
your reflexes around the control, muscle spasm, parasthesian

(50:41):
numbness, memory loss, theopposite, sedation, drowsiness
and on and blood pressureelevation.
And what's not in that list,because that's the psychiatric
disorders, is serotonin syndrome, which looks like this but
which is a flagrant neurologicaldisorder that can lead to death
.
But it's in that direction.
Now, if you know anything aboutdrugs, you know this is

(51:05):
practically identical tomethamphetamine and the official
chemical name of methylene blueis methyl dioxide,
methamphetamine.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, so that whole list of symptoms you just read
are from these MAOI inhibitors,if I.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Yes, yeah, and it is a classic, and called this in
the fda literature maoiinhibitor.
Yeah, and that's the base for somany of the psychiatric meds of
today well, what happened isyes, first of all, as I noted
first, it became the firstantidepressants, the first maoi

(51:47):
inhibitors, but they had to betinkered with.
You couldn't mess with thisthing.
And when they finally did messwith this thing, nobody uses
them anymore.
Nobody uses drugs the drugsthat you can buy over the
counter methylene blue and thateven freedom fighter
organizations are forcing on you, and even freedom fighters

(52:07):
themselves in their testimonymaking money and some of them
are real freedom fightersthemselves in their testimony.
Making money, yeah, and some ofthem are real freedom fighters.
Making money is actually so badthat it has never been able to
be jerry-rigged into a drug thatpsychiatrists would want to use
.
And if you're on it and, by theway, let's say you're taking it

(52:28):
and you happen to eat just alittle too much, or maybe just
enough, of something with soy init, or drink a beer or drink a
beer yeah, you read, you read mystuff or drink a beer, or eat
any number of a dozen or twodozen foods, or if you happen to

(52:50):
be on any other drug.
Like almost any psychiatric drugis going to interact with this,
because almost any psychiatricdrug is messing with at least
one of those fourneurotransmitters dopamine,
serotonin, norepinephrine orepinephrine.
It's a disaster.
Don't do it, don't risk it.

(53:11):
And my friends who are doingthis and selling this I still
haven't been openly criticizingyou.
Please, for God's sake, stop,before God taps me on the
shoulder and says, peter, yougot to do it, you got to name
these names.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yep, I don't want them to have to go through that,
so thank you for warning them.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I don't want them to have to go through that.
So thank you for warning them.
I don't want my friends to gothrough that.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah, well, I mean, but talk about the supposed
benefits.
What are people actuallyexperiencing when they're
talking about all the ways theyfeel better?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Well, it was interesting because you know one
of our really greatest ofgreats, oh God, of our really
greatest of greats, uh, oh god,um, I won't even mention his
name.
He gets on the air and isbragging that he only took one
half the dose of the drug he'sselling, methylene blue, and it

(54:05):
made him feel like he had everyenergy in the world and he was
this and this and it allhappened in half an hour.
And then he gets other peoplePeople will know who I'm talking
about if they listen to him.
He's like maybe the most heroicfigure in freedom, especially
in taking on globalism.
And then he has a friend comeup and say hey, did you

(54:27):
experiment with it?
Oh, yeah, I took it half anhour ago.
How do you feel?
It's wonderful.
I feel like I'm running whileI'm sitting.
Still, oh gosh, I feel like Ihave more power than ever and
I'm thinking better.
I guarantee you they're notthinking better, they're
thinking more grandiosely.
It's part of the awful state youget into and people tell me

(54:51):
it's all about the dose.
And that's what these people dowhen they defend themselves.
Oh, the dose?
No, no, that's big doses aredangerous, first of all.
No, it's the routine dose ofMAOI that does it.
But secondly, you can't say thedose is safe.
You have people on televisiondemonstrating it's making them

(55:13):
near crazy and they don't evenknow it and they jump around and
look like weird people ontelevision.
The dose is sufficient to havean effect.
It's potentially ruinous toyour mind.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
They're having a trip or more, so that's exactly
thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
That's right.
These people are on a stimulantweird trip.
Yeah, and I have criticizedBobby Kennedy People.
You know we have pictures ofhim taking what's probably
methylene blue and he's neversaid no.
And other people have said onthe air I know Bobby and he
loves his methylene blue.
And Bobby is also encouraginggiving veterans hallucinogens

(56:00):
and MALY life drugs to now donew things in medicine.
It's not no Bobby, you I'mgoing to confront.
Yeah.
And RFK.
Uh, this is dangerous.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
This is very bad, well, and I'm thankful that
somebody's courageous enough.
With the reputation, you haveto say something.
So thank you for doing that andthank you, yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
So we did have to make a decision yeah, well, it's
like a lot of topics.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I sometimes I'm like do I want to get back into that
and and take some more arrows,or have people just come out of
the woodwork to tell you thatyou're an idiot?
Like you know?
Sometimes you just have tostand in the fire and I look to
people like you who've done itand say it's worth it, and I'd
rather do right by my conscienceand say something than just
puts it on my hands.
So I appreciate you doing that.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
So let me talk generally about it.
Thank you, let me talkgenerally about the drugs.
I want to finish in half anhour, okay.
You got it.
Yeah, or so In general, you canfeel good with a psychiatric
drug if it jacks you up and thatmakes you feel better, If it

(57:12):
jacks you down and that makesyou feel better, or if it makes
you indifferent.
That is, you don't get lower orare you getting different,
which I think is potentially theworst of all.
And so people go on these drugsand stay on them because
they're getting some sense attimes of feeling more excited or

(57:33):
feeling not so overwhelmed buta little depressed or get numb.
Now the final common pathwayand, by the way, this is my
stuff, other people don't seethis obvious.
It's in all my books.
It's in Psychiatric DrugWithdrawal.
It has everything I'm talkingto you about it in the first

(57:53):
half.
It is the best book.
If you really can't afford abook that's priced like a
medical book because it's putout by a medical publisher.
Because I wanted that powerbehind one of my books.
You can read a chapter about itin Medication Madness.
But don't just come off yourdrug.
It's too dangerous, much, muchtoo dangerous, much, much too

(58:15):
dangerous.
It's what I do a lot of is helppeople come off.
It's very dangerous Because thebrain that's part of what I
want to tell you.
So one of the most commonthings that happens whether it's
chronic blow on the head,chronic illness, chronic
exposure to any drug alcohol,marijuana and other things is

(58:36):
you become less engaged in life.
You just lose your edge and youdon't know it.
Early in Prozac I had a patientcome in who was a very
sophisticated spiritual man withhis wife and she brought him in
.
They came in together and shesaid my husband's on this Prozac

(58:59):
and maybe she read one of myearliest books so long as the
main copy is talking back toProzac.
I was the medical expert forall the combined suits against
Eli Lilly for Prozac.
Wow, a judge in power fed for ajudge in power with me to go
look me only to look at thesecret materials inside of Eli

(59:23):
Lilly Wow, that's another wholestory filled with fraud,
deception.
It's just an amazing story.
But this person came.
I couldn't have written TalkingBack to Prozac without having
had that appointment because itgave me the opportunity some of
it paid to dive into theliterature to interview people

(59:45):
at the FDA.
I was a medical expert for allthese lawsuits.
I was a medical expert for allthese lawsuits, but he told me
that he was comfortable on Prosaand his wife said honey, you

(01:00:13):
don't even greet the dog happilywhen you come home.
And she talked about the lossof consortium and love.
And it took my colleagues a longtime to recognize that
practically everyone, man orwoman on drugs, begins to quote
lose libido or at least havesome dysfunction.

(01:00:34):
But because psychiatrists andphysicians are in the lead, they
miss the big point.
They lose the capacity to love.
They don't lose it, they canget back.
And you don't even know it.
You forget that you once lookedat your wife and at least
sometimes it was just like 20years ago, yeah, and you've just

(01:00:56):
been at a happiness and youcan't believe.
You know, you remember that youthought God must have arranged
it.
How could this woman love me?
Or how could I love her?
Someone it goes, it's not thereanymore.
I don't think there's a drugthat doesn't take it away.
But psych drugs are aimed atcrossing your blood-brain

(01:01:18):
barrier and being especiallypotent, and if they don't affect
your frontal lobe they have toaffect your frontal lobe.
So they wouldn't even be apsych drug.
But when they affect yourfrontal lobe the first thing
that gets compromised is likewhen I would get up in in the
morning, recovering from acombination of toxicity and
withdrawal from taking anantihistamine.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Wow, is that what you refer to as medication,
spellbinding this idea that youjust Thank you, you're helping
me with this interview.
Thank you Well you're welcomeyeah.
Go run with that term or defineit for people.
What is that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Well, it's a term I invented because doctors don't
want to see it.
I shouldn't have had to inventit, because we know from alcohol
, we know from marijuana, weknow from smoking, cigarettes
things we see in front of ourfaces that the effects, the bad
effects on people, aren'trecognized by the people.

(01:02:13):
It's not just that they'relying to themselves because they
need to talk so bad.
That's what I probably thoughtbefore.
I learned more on my own, notfrom the textbooks, but seeing
people working with people astherapists because you gotta be
working with people.
I mean the psychiatrist nolonger even talk to their
patients.

(01:02:33):
Apparently they talk to thenurses who talk to the patients.
It's a disgrace.
They don't even talk to thesocial worker who's treating the
patient who sent them to it.
You know it's just a force, it'sassembly line drugging.
But if you get to talk with thepeople you realize they're not

(01:02:54):
engaged with you like they musthave been in the past.
If you do family therapy, likeI love to do, my favorite thing
is helping people love oneanother.
Um, you, you hear from thehusband with the.
You know so many women aroundtheir drugs, you antidepressants
in particular.
You hear the antipsychotics,all mood stabilizers, all

(01:03:16):
stimulants.
This is why teachers like kidson stimulants.
They disengage.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Yeah, they're easier to manage, I suppose.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
They're easier to manage.
And the children on many ofthese drugs, but particularly on
the stimulants, they get OCD.
So they do what they're toldobsessively but they don't learn
more, they learn less.
They will get so obsessive thatthey might be sitting in class
and taking such notes that theyeven tear the paper with their

(01:03:45):
pencil.
Or one story of the kid whosedad asked him to go out and rake
the lawn and when the kiddidn't show up he went out and
he was sitting under the treemaking sure he caught each leaf.
Wow, man, so well.
You'll see the same thing fromaddicts to stimulants.
They'll go up on the roof ofthe house, start washing the

(01:04:08):
risk of life, be washing in theroof or something.
A lot of obsessive.
It's from something that's doneto that area called the basal
ganglia that people don't knowenough about.
It's below the frontal lobes.
The effect.
So we're making our kidszombie-like and I actually, when
I write about this, I find myzombie-like syndrome in the

(01:04:33):
American textbook of psychiatryfrom about 20 years ago that
they took out, but they used tosay, oh, and the children get a
zombie effect.
Well, it's a lesser zombieeffect.
You're seeking jerks.
Yeah.
It's an extension of what you'reseeking, yeah.
You make them well and the sadpart is people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
They think that the medication is what is helping
them function.
They don't recognize that it'skeeping them from functioning.
Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
that's right, exactly right, yeah, that's right, I
had a kamikaze pilots functionon stimulant drugs.
It's just to give them theiramphetamine and take it as a
ritual and it would help makethem obsessively focused on what

(01:05:23):
they were told Dang.
And in fact during Afghanistanthey did that some canadian
pilots and they accidentallybombed their own people.
That's a true story.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
I'll have to look that one up again and remind
myself of the story, but that'sa true story man, yeah, I had a
client years ago who was 100pounds overweight and she wanted
me to help her get the weightoff because she couldn't win the
argument that that was healthyor that her family liked it or
it was good for her career.
But she was on one of thesemedications and her want to was
gone.
She literally did not care thatshe was overweight and there

(01:05:58):
was no leverage point anywhere.
It was my window into whoa.
If somebody doesn't want towork to get off these, I don't
know that I can help them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
This is what?
That's right.
This is what the antipsychoticdrugs routinely do to people
they make them obese.
The SSRIs fool people becausethey have a stimulant effect
often not always and if you getthat stimulant effect, you lose
weight for the first few monthsand then you get the same effect
, the chronic effect.

(01:06:26):
So it's a trap.
And you mentioned the medicationspellbinding chronic, so it's a
trap.
And you mentioned themedication spellbinding, so
people can't get out of theirposition because their frontal
lobes are harmed enough to notbe sensitive to their plight or
motivated to get through it.
But a loving partner cansometimes break through that

(01:06:49):
yeah.
They can break through it.
I've seen loving partnersunderstand even that they've
been living with 10 years ofcraziness.
And it's not the woman theymarried or the man they married.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
It started with the drugs yeah, yeah so you say, one
of the things I appreciateabout your work or just find so
endearing is how much yougenuinely care about the human
condition, and hearing you talktoday I can sense it.
So yeah, I've heard you talkbefore just about kind of the
point of suffering or the valueit can have and giving space to

(01:07:23):
wrestle with hard things insteadof medicating or suppressing
our feelings like this.
So talk to the listener alittle bit about that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Well, I shouldn't have to read myself, but I don't
want to miss it.
I have five principles that Itry to live by.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Oh, you're doing good .
You're preempting where I wasgoing to wrap up.
That's great, keep going.
You're going to wrap up?
No, not yet, but you can readthem now.
They're so good.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
The first one and I've tinkered on this ever since
I gave the original renditionin a book called Wow, I'm an
American, which is reallyappropriate to now.
A buddy from my beautifuljewish group in high school
became eventually my agent andhe wouldn't handle a book that

(01:08:16):
said wow I'm an american becausehe was a progressive new yorker
and he didn't wake up proud tobe an american was my
introduction into just how badit had gotten.
But here first, and I'llexplain each one a little bit,
this is not a bad place to beright now.
First, dare to trust in aloving God.

(01:08:37):
That's the last one I put onbecause I was embarrassed about
it and then I realized it takesa daring for an intellectual.
You know I'm an intellectual.
I think a lot.
I've written many scientificpapers I bolster.
All of my discussions with youtoday are in scientific papers

(01:09:00):
on my website and in all of mybooks.
No, not all, but in the booksabout drugs yeah, they're in
there.
But in the books about drugsyeah, they're in there.
I realized I was daring totrust in a loving God, that my
wife was saying God loves me andI had to dare trust him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Love, that Is that amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
It is and she's so good for you.
Well, listen, we were both sowounded, as often because of
family and as often because ofourselves.
We both had two marriagesbefore this, we both had
divorces and we both were scaredto death of how much we loved

(01:09:52):
each other at first sight, and Ifor one, after falling in love
with her, never saw her againfor 10 years.
That's how scared I got and Inoticed that my clients I that I
often recognize when they fallin love because they're so
scared to know and talk about itand they want to brush it off.
And finally God had to be.
God put me together in anotherpart of the country, 2,000 miles

(01:10:17):
away from where we met, andjust stuck us together via a
friend who was an ex-girlfriendof mine, and I met her and I
asked her to marry me becauseI'd grown up.
That day.
I had courage and that day shesaid, yes, wow, good timing, and
um, so I say we've beencovertly in love for 10 years

(01:10:39):
and we've been married for 42.
Um, so one of the things shedid yeah, I want people to go on
courage, people dare love eachother.
One of the things she did doyou remember the movie?
It was a black woman who was anangel and a beautiful white
woman who was an angel, and theblack woman was like really
robust and strong.
I wouldn't call her beautifulso much as just amazing and full

(01:11:03):
of life.
And they were angels.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
I have not seen this.
Okay, keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
And touched by an angel.
That was the series and italways ended in this way with
one of the angels.
And I apologize for saying thatother woman was beautiful.
Actually, she was not myclassic beauty.
There you go, fair enough, butthe other woman was a standard,

(01:11:28):
classic, ordinary white womanbeauty.
I don't want to be in a hole,not that I haven't found black
women very beautiful, right,including my nanny, who raised
me and gave me my spirit, handedme my christian underlying

(01:11:52):
spirit there you go oh, it's socomplicated but it would always
end with something gingerdecided I needed, and that is as
god's appointed angel.
she would stand up to me when Iwas sad and she would put a
flashlight behind her headbecause she didn't have the

(01:12:12):
radiance of a film, anartificial light and all.
She would shine it up throughher auburn hair and say God
loves you.
Wow, and I know it because hetold me.
After a while and Ginger wouldlook at my life with me, the

(01:12:37):
outrageous fights I got in thatI could have been destroyed in
and that I won, except for whenI started I lost.
And again I was protected.
I lost a fight because I wasstupid.
I was so bad at basketball Iwas really fast.
I would steal a ball as a trackguy and I'd run down and I'd
miss the layup, you know.
And I was so frustrated that Iactually took a swing at the

(01:13:00):
opposition guy in his own schoolon the way out.
Whoops Never started a fightbefore.
I staggered and fell withouthis touching me.
When I reached up to get up, myarm was under the iron fence.
Remember those old iron fences?
They got a railing that's lowand I'm completely stuck.

(01:13:26):
I'm looking up at a guy who'snow sitting on me, who's maybe
40 pounds heavier, and he looksat me, stands up and says jerk,
and walks away.
So I would tell Ginger thesestories about the big guy, the
fiercest guy in town, whoattacks me.
I managed to get him and forcehim before we even knew about
these things, but I was kind ofstudying it.
I, you know, I forced him totap out and Ginger says to me

(01:13:51):
you were protected by God, he'sgot these things for you to do.
That's ridiculous, that wouldbe narcissistic, that would be
stupid.
I just went the secular Jewishroute and progressive route
which I think goes with it, andI couldn't avoid the data.

(01:14:11):
The data, the data of when theyreally tried to kill us and we
survived.
They went into our house, wentright in the middle of, in the
middle of my starting to bedeposed for the eli lilly trials
and I'm not blaming Eli Lilly,it could have been any number of

(01:14:32):
drug companies.
Now I know it could have beenthe deep state.
I didn't know that becausethey're protecting all of this.
Somebody managed to get into ourbasement where a previous
person we didn't know but whocame to fix the basement, had

(01:14:53):
not cemented in the place eitherthe exhaust from the furnace a
very old oil furnace or theexhaust from the gas heater, and
someone had come in later as Ihad constructed, and took them
out and hid them in the corner.
He came upstairs, his plumberwas working on his.

(01:15:14):
You know, your stuff's beenremoved.
Ali was very sick, I was sick,we were going to doctors, ginger
was sick, but my office wasabove ground and Ali and Ginger
were right above the basementwhere they were all the time and
Ginger just has been, you know,talking to me about this.

(01:15:36):
We protected, do you realize?
They tried to take your licenseaway.
But you protected me, honey,because they tried to take my
license away and they set up acommittee of lawyers my friends
oh, my friend's lawyer friendly.
They got together with me and Isaid, peter, your license is
being attacked for it was forremarks I made on oprah winfrey,

(01:16:00):
not a patient.
It was that I told people onoprah winfrey allegedly to stop
taking their meds, which I neverdid.
Even told them don't starttaking them.
Which is different.
It's vastly different.
I said she asked me at the end.
I got along really well withOprah in those days.
That changed later and shedidn't keep calling me back.

(01:16:23):
But I think it changed becauseI think she went on Prozac.
She started to lose weight andlook good.
I think she was just don't thelast show I had with her.
She trapped me, which wasridiculous because she so
supported me.
She supported me during theattack on my license and stuff.
Um, it was a change.
You know, that's very dramatic,very dramatic change.

(01:16:46):
I'm whispering because it's sosacred I don't know how to talk
about this.
But so they went after me formy oh.
What Oprah did was at the veryend of the show.
She said Peter, what if you goto a doctor and you know a new
doctor and they start writingyou a prescription for

(01:17:07):
medication?
What do you do?
Well, I had 30 seconds.
I said put it in your pocketprescription.
They didn't call them in.
In those days, don't take thedrugs but don't argue with the
doctor it's not safe as if he'sa psychiatrist and leave and go

(01:17:31):
find a psychotherapist or anykind of doctor who really likes
you and makes you feel good onthe first visit.
It's like shopping for a bestfriend.
Basically, what I said mustlook a little different.
Oh my god, did they go after me?
The APA worked with an astroturfgroup called NAMI who brought

(01:17:57):
the suit against me.
People were dying all over thecountry because of me.
They could never find oneperson that was serving me.
But that was only allegations.
Well, they got a committee.
My friends got a committeetogether and they said Peter,
here comes the angel, changeyour business.
They said Peter, you have toslow down.

(01:18:18):
Do not turn this licensureattack into a reform fight.
Be collegial.
Now, this was actuallyespecially dangerous in Maryland
, as I would find out, becausethey vet these charges through

(01:18:40):
the AMA Committee on Ethics ofthe State of Maryland and I had
to tear new spaces for the AMAon what they were doing and the
state mental hospital.
The guy who was really thecommissioner a different title.
He wrote a special lettersaying I'm watching what you're

(01:19:03):
doing.
Wow, got on discovery.
Yeah, you didn't say that.
They said be really cordial,peter, don't make trouble for
yourself.
So we get ready to go to theAMA committee.
No, we stopped and we assessed.

(01:19:26):
We're scared thinking of howI'll make a living, thinking
well, you know, I can really fixthese guys if I go to law
school, I could start all overagain in a new way.
I got great background being alawyer.
I'm great doing a lot of stuff.
You know, I'm thinking to bebrave and Ginger starts calling
reformers around the country andasking them what do they think?

(01:19:50):
I would never do anything likethat.
There was a great pediatricianwho made I think they might have
even taken his license away shegot into a few people and she
looked at her own experiencedoing PRs, great PR and other
things that she had done.
And she comes to me and shesays honey, we've got to whack
them so bad they'll regret itfor the rest of their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
They're playing offense instead of defense.
It sounds like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
Well, yes, but really because, she said, I've been
told the only kind of peoplethat join these committees are
fascists.
They want to get theircolleagues and be mighty, punish
people.
This is not safe, she said.
I want to go to the press.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
There you go.
That's one way to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
You turned it Well and now you see it was late 80s
and it's a different press.
Yes, it is Much much betterpress, infinitely better press.
So, even though it was bad.
So Oprah has me back on, she isdetermined to support me.
She has me back on and herchief person is openly calling

(01:21:06):
me to talk to me and say we'renot backing down on your doc.
And so I do a show on Oprah,it's not about this.
And I come back and I come homeHi honey, I come in and she's
sitting at my office desk andshe says, wait, wait, I've got,

(01:21:27):
oh God, I've got.
And it's the biggest sciencewriter in the country, the guy
from New York Times who wroteEmotional Intelligence.
Oh God, what's his name?
I don't know that one.
Oh wait, james, are you in thenext room?
Your?
phone is ringing, she's on theline with the most important

(01:21:52):
science writer in the world.
Literally Nobody close who'sname will come Green.
And she says to him my husbandjust arrived and he wants to
talk to you.
And he says I don't want totalk to you, tell me more.
So I don't even get to talk tohim.
He's so important.

(01:22:12):
And dan goldman gold, goldmandan gold.
And he comes out with a verybalanced piece that suggests
it's a freedom of speech issueand not even a medical issue.
Nice, but it's's kind ofbalanced, yeah.
And then Ginger gets everymajor newspaper she calls to

(01:22:42):
cover this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Wow, she's your angel yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
And then, yeah, this is about angels, folks, we're
going to end the show.
I want you to think this isabout angels.
Folks, we're going to end theshow.
I want you to think about yourown life, folks.
And I only got through, forGod's sakes, the first principle
of trusting a loving God.
That's all I'm talking about.
I'll tell you quickly in acouple of minutes and then I'll
be done with the otherprinciples, but let this show

(01:23:08):
inspire you.
So then we go to the medicalprinciples.
But let this show inspire you.
So then we go to the medicalmeeting of the you know the
fascists of the medical society,the Maryland Medical Society,
called the Ethics Group, andthey won't let Ginger in.
And I say I'm not coming.

(01:23:29):
Well, we don't let one.
And I said, okay, well, I'mgoing up here, you can come in
with your lawyer.
I said I'm not coming.
So they backed down.
I come in with Ginger on my left, my lawyer on my right and in
the middle, while the chairwomanclearly thinks something's

(01:23:51):
happening, and the onlypsychiatrist among the 20 people
or so, only one psychiatrist.
We had not been alert enough tocheck him out.
I assumed he was bad, but Ididn't check him out.
Maybe I was afraid, maybe I wastoo busy.
And in the middle of it, abutcher-looking psychiatrist who

(01:24:18):
is an orthopedic surgeon or anOBGYN, I forget which he says.
And, doc, I've listened to thewhole transcript and you said
these drugs damage people'sbrains.
I said do you know what tardivedyskinesia is, sir?
No, I look at the chairman,probably avoiding the

(01:24:46):
psychiatrist, and I say, madam,may I give a seminar on brain
damage from psychiatric drugs?
A brief one, 10, 15 minutes, sothat you will understand my
motivation in going to thepublic, because doctors don't
know the truth.
And the psychiatrist pipes upyes, I'm for it.
Yeah, he was a family therapist, he was an old-timer.

(01:25:11):
Yeah.
He was back in the days when mycolleagues treated patients and
so I did.
So it's over.
And she says to me okay, DrReagan, we're going to recommend
that no charges be broughtagainst you.
But I warn you, that's up tothe committee, it's up to the

(01:25:39):
Maryland medical licensurepeople.
So don't go to the pressanymore, Bing.
And so my lawyer says great,we're going home.
My lawyer, and once we get tothis little room, when we finish
, we've gone home.
Ginger says I'm not going togive up our free speech, Our

(01:26:05):
free speech ahead of our medicallicense.
We've been together three years.
It's already our medicallicense.
Yeah.
And she says I have the phonenumber of eight home numbers.
It's night time now.
I have eight home numbers ofthe press and they're waiting to

(01:26:25):
hear what happened.
I don't think she told me, shedidn't want to bother me.
And I've got a whole purse fullof quarters.
I want to go to the hotel, tothe bank of phones and start
calling.
I've got a whole purse full ofquarters.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
I want to go to the hotel, to the bank of phones and
start calling Pay phone days.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
Nice, yeah, I said okay, and our lawyer, you know
he was.
He was such a wimp out.
God bless him, he's a nice man.
I think he quit doing the law.
He actually was the head of thelocal ACLU and, no, their
lawyer.
He was a big lawyer.
But anyway, I don't want toimplicate or even identify him.

(01:27:07):
So we went to, they'd call,they'd give their little
explanation, then they wouldhave me on and New York Times
carried a second story.
The Baltimore Sun, who was withus waiting outside for us, did

(01:27:28):
a big story.
The AP carried the story allover the world.
The Washington Post, theirscience writer wouldn't even
talk to us but she found anotherreporter.
The other reporter carried itand they not only exonerated me,

(01:27:57):
they apologized at length.
The state medical licensurepeople.
They thanked me for mycontribution to medicine in the
state of Maryland and then a manI didn't know who was their
medical committee head persongave an interview saying it was

(01:28:18):
a freedom of speech issue andnever should have been do I have
an angel or not?

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
yeah, well you.
It's like you two were broughttogether just so that your
mission could continue on somelevel beyond all the other
benefits of it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
This is what she said from very, pretty early on,
pretty early on, and I thinkwhat completely I mean I.
When I found out she hadn'tfinished college, my first
thought was go to college.
And she, she went to collegeand she well, she got so many

(01:28:53):
credits for work that shestarted as a junior for the work
she'd been doing previously.
And then she wrote a paper fora graduate school paper this is
her first semester and she wonthe award for the whole
university for the best graduatepaper in social sciences.
And she said I think I'm goingto stay home and take care of my

(01:29:15):
daughter Allie, and you, andI'm going to do this work.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
Wow, and here you are ever since.
Isn't that something it is.
It's a remarkable story.
I appreciate how you've wovenit and kind of bookended the
science-y part of it with justwho you are, what drives you so
let me finish with theprinciples.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Go for it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
I've probably lost my notes, but I should remember
them.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
I've got them here, if you want them, all right.
So, the first principle toremind you is dare to trust in a
loving God.
The next principle is takeresponsibility at all times, boy
.
I mean it all times.
So if you and your wife arehaving an argument, take

(01:30:03):
responsibility for yourself andhelp her.
Then take responsibility forherself by seeing your image.
Do not put a responsibility onyour loved ones.
Take responsibility in everyway you can.
And the third one is expressgratitude for your gifts and

(01:30:28):
opportunities, and I do that.
I do it all day long.
So help me God.
And the next one is stand firmfor freedom, and the final one
is become a source of love yeah,those are great.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
I I captured those.
When I saw them on your site,I'm like I don't know that I
could come up with better ones.

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
They're just so good I've been thinking about it
since I was a kid.
Somehow or other, it's justwhat I was meant to think about
things since I was a kid.
Yeah, I said as a kid that if Ibelieved in God, I'd probably
be a rabbi.
Yeah, and now a rabbi is just ateacher.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Yeah, well, you became an advocate for when you
found all the people that youdidn't have one and you saw so
many people that didn't have oneand that just obviously put a
fire in your belly intoperpetuity to stand up for the
people that are unseen or thepeople that don't have an
advocate, and it's yeah and thenwhen covid hit, I was in a

(01:31:42):
really good position becauseboth ginger and I now had all
the expertise, because she's gotit all about the drugs enough
to surprise me with new things.

Speaker 3 (01:31:52):
I haven't thought about in every year any area.
And then she smiles and sayswell, you know, I've been in
training for 40 years.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
Very good, you absorb a lot.
She's obviously didn't she'sjust amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
But she's just amazing.
Yeah.
I'm thinking about.
It makes me anxious sometimeswhen I talk about what we have,

(01:32:29):
because there are enemies, yeah,and once in a while I say this
and I'm going to say it Hurt usbadly enough and you will make
martyrs of us.
So help me God.
There are millions of peoplethat love Ginger Brigham or
Peter Brigham and hurt us.
You tried once, twice, I'vetalked about it.

(01:32:50):
People will be alert.
Really hurt us.
For my age it's euthanasia.
I want to see Ginger haveanother 20 years and you will
martyr us.
So help me God.

Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
Anyway, yeah, well you're.
I'm confident your work isgoing to outlive you and inspire
so many people, and we will.
I'm, I'm the the nextgeneration here to carry the
torch and to make sure, yes, we,we take this absolutely
disgusting system that has ananti-human agenda in many ways
and and turn it into what itcould have been that actually

(01:33:29):
cares for people.

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
So, yeah, and it's about the whole world, folks.
Now the corruption I watchedgrow.
The whole world is in a stateof corruption that it was never
in before, and it's largelybecause it's like the the danger
.
So you, you develop an atomicbomb, you can use it for atomic
energy and meet all energy needs, or you can blow people to hell

(01:33:52):
with it, or you can, you know,make the world uninhabitable
with it.
Well, it's the same thing withcommunication.
It's the same thing witheverything that we have in this
modern world ability to shipthings, our ability to
communicate instantly, ourability to get materials
anywhere in the world.
It's great for disasters, butit also opens the way for

(01:34:13):
emperors to want to rule theworld.
And we really are facingcorruption on the level of
people who want to rule theworld.
And that is what I look at inthe Global Predators.
You know COVID-19, the GlobalPredators.
We Are the Prey.
Yeah, they're both.
Ginger and I are both authors.
I'd made me do the writing, butshe does so much to inform me,

(01:34:38):
inform the book, research, andwe published that book.
She made a publishing companyand published that book.
She didn't just go get somebodyto help her do it, she became
the publisher and she publishedit and 45 minutes after, because
we knew we were turned down byone of the most radical

(01:34:58):
publishers in the country afteraccepting it.
So now I don't want it.
A day later, so we had a senseof just what we were really now
beginning to face, and so wewere already threatened by
YouTube that you better be niceor we'll throw you off.
So we were nice.
When you knew the book wascoming out, there were no more

(01:35:20):
cautions, no more warnings, uhand um.
When the book came out,published by ginger under the
name of lake edge press um herpublishing company, not mine,
her publishing um I went onyoutube and announced it.

(01:35:42):
We had a huge audience 45 000back then in 1981, and um, they
took us down in 45 minutespermanently.

Speaker 1 (01:35:58):
Not 1981.
In 2021, you mean 21, 21.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
I'm sorry mistake.
Thank you, I make that mistakea lot, 2021.
Yeah, they took us downliterally in less than 15
minutes because when I went tolook it up we were gone.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
Yeah, I had a video of my last interview.
We put a clip on YouTube andthey slapped us with a.
You can't post again for threemonths, just like, of course,
just-.
And what was it on?
It was on autism and thepossibility that you could
recover from it, and that'sverboten on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
You're not allowed to hey, folks, I've helped people
recover from from a seriousautism, at least one person I
didn't get to see too many whowent on to have a great life.
And I've helped others,children like that, and you know
how I did it.
I helped the parents love anddiscipline them.

(01:36:52):
The parents did it, clinton,the parents did it.
I barely saw the kid that inthis small community I live in
who went on to live a wonderfullife.
I barely saw him because I toldhim that his parents changed
and he worked with his parents,it was going to get better and

(01:37:15):
his parents agreed.
Don't buy this line.
Bobby pushes it like crazy.
I think he gets a lot of moneyfor it.
Bobby Kennedy, RFA.
Yes, Autism is a disorder, evenby definition of psychiatry,
the DSM, the Diagnostic Manual.

(01:37:37):
They want everything to bebiologic.
They can't attribute autism togenetics or biology, they just
can't find anything.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
Because it's not Because it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
I believe it is a deeply learned issue of
socialization.
And the man who invented theconcept said it's new 1950s
canter, leo canner, canner.
Leo canner, canner setc-a-n-n-e-r.
Said everyone I'm sayingpractically who have children,

(01:38:14):
who will just stopped relatingto them are not much raising
their children, or somebody elseis raising their children.
Most of them are a couple oftwo working, professional,
highly intelligent people.
You outline the whole thing.
And that's exactly the parentswho were responsible enough,

(01:38:38):
take responsibility to say wewere both in school training
like crazy to be a high powerprofession.
And I said, dad, will you seehim at least every weekend from
now on, special time?
He knows he's coming?
He said you better, from now on, special time he knows it's
coming.

(01:38:58):
He said you better, and willyou two work with me on loving
each other, loving him andsetting boundaries?
Because that was the firstthing I did.
The kid came in, actually worsethan just autistic, he had
hallucinations, but he wasdiagnosed autistic and was going
to get drunk and I said a lemonon it right away.

(01:39:19):
I said, son, it's not in yourbest interest act crazy.
Come sit down.
He said it's terrible for you.
Come, come sit down here.
He sat down and I said youdon't have to be like this,
we're gonna help you, and he did.
As this happens, he actuallypretty much had a normal

(01:39:41):
conversation with me from now,but if it's an adult, it doesn't
happen that fast, boy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
It can keep going back and forth for a long time
yeah, I can imagine how manytimes you have practiced the
skill of talking to people whoothers just don't know how to
get through to and that'samazing.

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
I've really been working on it and now and I'm
going to be very abstract I haveclients who don't speak and I
see them on the phone with afamily.
They barely don't speak or theydon't much speak.
Huh, they barely don't speak orthey don't much speak.
And I'm learning to engagepeople who basically don't want

(01:40:27):
to be there, but they'll show upa little and we're not forcing
them.
And I talk with a family member.

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
And they listen.

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
That's an interesting way to do therapy.
I love it.
You know it's about showingpeople that they matter.
I mean I can literally yellacross the room hey, and I'd
love to see you again.
That was great last week, thatlast two minutes we had, and I'd
love to see you again.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
That was great last week, that last two minutes we
had.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
And you know you get fond of people.
If you learn about people andthey're decent enough to show up
, they're lovable.
Yeah, you don't even have toreally work at it very hard.

Speaker 1 (01:41:15):
No, because we all want to be Not in therapy,
because they're already somehowthere.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
That wouldn't be true about, you know, hitler or
Fauci.
But you know it's true aboutthe people who come for help,
even if they're comingreluctantly, and somebody's
holding their hands, you know.
So there's hope out there,folks.
There is Dare to have hope.

Speaker 1 (01:41:36):
I might add to this yeah, please do, and that's a
good note to end on.
But anything else you want tosay to the listener Anything we
didn't cover, that's burning inyou.
That is important, or letpeople know where they can find
you.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
Love is ageless.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
That's a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Instead of running out.
As you get older, you get wiserand you can love each other
better yeah, there you go youknow, I was so infatuated and
out of my mind about this womangender.
Practically at first sight Ithought man, that was it.

(01:42:16):
That's why I got so scared.
But there's other levels.
There's other levels where,where you gotta bring in god or
you won't know what's going on.
I really think for me that'strue.
Yeah, well, I think I don't.
I don't force that on myclients, but most of my clients
are christians because of who Iam Now.
They're Christians who believein freedom.

(01:42:37):
They're often at least theybelieve in our principles not
necessarily leaders in themovement or anything.
So they're really happy to besurprised to hear that.
Sure, why wouldn't God be herein this room, as well as
anywhere else?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
And the love frame is important, well as anywhere
else.
Yeah, and, and the love frameis important.
Like you, there's the dare, thedare part of your
intellectualizing god, but it'sa, it's a, it's a leap of faith
to dare to.
Could that possibly be true?
And if god is existing and he'sloving, that changes everything
and somehow could this feelingmuch better?

Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
could that be just fake?
I mean, well, maybe I feelbetter, right, I mean, it's like
you get better, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
Yeah, because you're you're, you're resonating with
the one relationship you're madefor, the primary one, and the
rest comes from that.
So I love it.
Man, it was been an honorspending time with you today.

Speaker 3 (01:43:37):
I know I kept you over, so I appreciate it.
Yeah, but this is a beautifulinterview.
I love it.
Well, thank you.
I'd like to put it up.
You know, send us a copy.
You're going to edit it much.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
No, I don't know that I need to.
Well, people practice so manydifferent parts of it, and
that's the beauty of a kind of aranging interview, and it is a
range.

Speaker 3 (01:43:59):
We can do another one on other topics and let's yeah,
let's hit another time.
If it fits with you, it may not.
If it fits with you, my nextbook is really going to be on
hidden empires, which are reallyright there to see in front of
your nose, your face, who aretrying to destroy us.
They're trying to destroy, asall empires have always done,

(01:44:19):
and I don't know anybody elsethat's ever faced this as
directly as me.
All empires thrive ondestroying freedom and
destroying love.
Yeah, that's what the book isabout.
Trump is facing empires.
Some of them are really subtleand some of them are in your
face, and I'm writing about that.

(01:44:43):
It's not a mystery.
I'm writing about it on thewebsite now.
I'm, you know, on On Substack,on Substack now, but that's what
I want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
Great, all right.
Well, we'll reconnect foranother Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
When the book comes out, we'll surely call you All
right?
Well, we'll reconnect foranother.

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
Sure, when the book comes out, we'll surely call you
All right.
Sounds good, then All right.
Well, thank you so much forspending time today.
It's wonderful.
I have links for all you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:45:05):
It's been delightful to meet you.
Maybe someday you'll be passingby in upstate New York.
Delightful to meet you, I hopeso.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
I'd love to meet you in person.

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
Watch this guy, if you tuned in for the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
Yeah, come, come, check me out Deconstructing
conventional.
I got a whole bunch of othercool people like this guy that
I've talked to, so good Allright.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
You know some of my best friends.
Actually, you know someChristian.
You know some best friends.

Speaker 1 (01:45:29):
I'm so glad to hear that it's your best friend.
I would be happy to meet okay,well, we'll think about that
we'll look into that all right,sounds good.
Thank you so much for the timetoday.
Bye, bye.

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Dr. Peter Breggin: Brain Hijackers - The Dehumanizing Truth About Psych Meds, Methylene Blue, and Profit-Driven Crimes of Psychiatry

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dr. Peter Breggin: Brain Hijackers - The Dehumanizing Truth About Psych Meds, Methylene Blue, and Profit-Driven Crimes of Psychiatry