Mark Grenon: The Unseen Realm - A Missionary's Journey Reveals Biblical Realities - Deconstructing Conventional

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, welcome to episode number 52.
This is part two of myconversation with Mr Mark
Grennan.
If you heard my last episode,you know that Mark has been in
ministry and missions since 1978.
In our previous conversation wefocused on his work helping
people heal physically usingchlorine dioxide and other
methods, and he told hisshocking story of persecution

(00:22):
and imprisonment for doing so.
And, by the way, if you cansupport Mark by ordering his
books or contributing to hisGive, send Go page, please do.
I'll have links for you forthat in the show notes.
In this episode I wanted to giveMark a chance to let his
experience as a minister andmissionary be the thing that
stretches your thinking.
So he has seen and experiencedthings most of us only read

(00:43):
about, and Mark has dedicatedhis life to sharing his faith,
and that involved going to someof the poorest and roughest
countries in the world to do so.
But, as you'll hear, markdidn't go to the mission field
with a megaphone.
He went with willing hands,looking to meet real needs and
after spending time with him, Ican say he is one of the purest
hearts you have ever met.
So it is an honor to know himand I'm excited to give you all

(01:07):
another chance to hear more ofhis life story.
So anytime you can hear fromsomeone like him, it helps
expand your view of the world.
So what he has experiencedbrought the Bible to life in so
many enriching ways, sometimesshocking ways, and it's likely
what you're about to hear aresome stories that will make you
say what Seriously.
So let me see if I can set usup for a fun, open-minded listen

(01:30):
here.
So first of all, as you haveprobably heard me say before,
I'm not really here to talk youinto or out of anything in
particular.
What I hope to do, as always,is give you an interesting and
insightful frame through whichto see the world and give you a
chance to walk around with thatframe and see if it doesn't make
more sense of the world we livein, and if it doesn't, you can
discard it.
So you are about to hear twoChristian guys who have done a

(01:52):
fair amount of traveling to thelands of the Bible.
We have been studying thescriptures and apologetics for
most of our lives and I wantedto record this episode for two
reasons One is just to captureMark's story for history and
second, like I said, I wanted togive you a frame of reality, a
biblical perspective on history,and leave you to ponder the
questions what if the Bibleisn't a collection of fairy

(02:15):
tales and moral teachings?
What if it's really history?
And what if it is divinelyinspired?
So to get you to ponder thatthought?
For those of you who don't know, depending on who you talk to,
there are between 200 and 400prophecies in the Old Testament,
so written hundreds orthousands of years beforehand,
that were perfectly fulfilled inJesus, in other words, in one

(02:36):
person.
So if you include the OldTestament prophecies fulfilled
in the Old Testament, the numberof fulfilled Bible prophecies
is between 2,000 and 2,500.
Friends, I invite you to ponderthe odds of that without divine
intervention.
So let me put it to you thisway People can win the lottery
against fantastic odds byguessing six numbers, right?

(02:57):
Imagine having to win thelottery by guessing hundreds or
thousands of numbers, right?
Good luck.
So, for context, mark and Idiscussed some of the weirdest
parts of the Bible, our mostepic parts of the Bible.
We talked about the angelic anddemonic realm.
We talked about the reality ofevil and the possibility of
giants, noah's Ark, the Exodusand where the real Mount Sinai

(03:17):
is.
And hint, it's not in Egypt.
We talk about our travels tothe lands of the Bible and some
of Mark's divine appointmentsalong the way that make it hard
to dismiss the record ofscripture.
So, talking to Mark, I feel insome ways like I kind of got the
sanitized 2D, black and white,almost felt board version of the
scripture during my time inseminary, while Mark was out
getting the 3D full color,immersive version of scripture.

(03:41):
And I'm just playing catch upinterviewing him.
So, okay, before I play theinterview, one other frame I
want to open here is to rewindthe last few years, kind of like
Mark and I did in the lastepisode.
If, like me, covid caused you toask a lot of questions and I've
mentioned this in variousinterviews that it was the
blatant censorship here in theUS, with no repercussions, that

(04:02):
caused me to start deeplyquestioning things.
I was baffled that they couldjust de-platform the sitting
president of the United Statesfrom social media and there was
no consequence to that and thepeople didn't even get a slap on
the wrist for doing so andcensorship just got worse.
I didn't realize at that pointthat the Constitution was simply
a suggestion and that humbledme and I realized how much I

(04:22):
misunderstood how the worldreally works, and what I
couldn't get my head around wasthe shocking level of worldwide
coordination of nearly everygovernment agreeing to shut down
their economy and tell usthere's nothing else we can do,
and we need to wait for aliability-free injection with
mysterious ingredients made bycompanies that are convicted

(04:43):
serial felons, and that is ouronly hope.
And yet somehow they pulledthat off, and so I get it now,
and if you want to hear myanswer to how they pulled it off
, you can go check out episodenumber 32 about deception and
control.
But in learning what I learned,it also caused me to step back
and say, okay, what else have Ibeen lied to about?
Or perhaps on a shockinglygrand scale I've been lied to

(05:06):
about, and it freed me toentertain questions I probably
otherwise would not haveentertained.
So, like me, the tyranny welived through during COVID may
also have caused you to ask jeez, where is the hope?
And, not surprisingly, thatlevel of coordinated evil we
have witnessed has woken up alot more people and made
conversations about faith andhistory, or I guess what we

(05:28):
could call the curated,sanitized version of history.
It's made that conversation alot more interesting, and
watching the last few yearsunfold has caused me to put my
nose back in the Bible and thelast five years what wasn't
shaken, what was actuallydeepened, was my faith and Mark
would say the same thing,despite going to prison for
taking a stand for truth.

(05:49):
So we both had that in commonand what we have a deep trust in
is the Bible.
So we recorded this episodewith the hope that it will fill
your sails with perspective andthereby hope and give you a
craving to explore the Bible andsee if it doesn't actually come
alive and make the world make alot more sense.
So what I hope thisconversation leaves you with, at

(06:10):
a minimum, is at least anintellectual understanding of a
Christian or biblicalperspective on both the unseen
realm and on human history.
If nothing else, you'll have afun historical and
archaeological set of datapoints you can look up if you're
interested and you'llunderstand how people like Mark
and me see the world.
So, to zoom out to a high level, not surprisingly, there has

(06:31):
been an explosion of interest inthe Bible and spirituality
since COVID kicked off, and ashumans we crave meaning,
especially when the worlddoesn't make sense.
So I don't think anyone canhonestly review human history
without appreciating that wehave always craved meaning and
sought to understand the world,the unseen realm and our role in
the universe, and that longingis hardwired into us, whether we

(06:54):
admit it or not.
We all have a sense that ourlives have to be about something
more than the day to day, andwe have this innate sense that
what we see can't be all thereis, and so, not surprisingly,
there's also been a hunger forquality films that explore these
concepts from a faithperspective.
So for those of you who maywant to explore the Bible and
history and spirituality throughfilm, a few things I've found

(07:15):
that are very faith affirminghave been the hit series the
Chosen, which is about the lifeof Jesus, or the fantastic new
show called the House of David,which is about King David from
the Old Testament.
I think both shows really helpjust kind of create this craving
to go back and see the biblicalsource material.
Both of those shows are basedon and you can find both the
Chosen and the House of David onAmazon.

(07:37):
And the House of David talksabout the Nephilim and giants,
which Mark and I discuss in thisepisode Another example of a
film that does a great joblaying out a biblical worldview
which includes the angelic anddemonic realms and how that
unseen realm influences humanitytoday.
If that's interesting, you cancheck out the movie Nefarious
with Sean Patrick Flannery,which has Hollywood quality

(08:00):
acting.
It is really well done.
But I'll warn you, it is aheart-wrenching movie.
It's not physically graphic,but boy do they paint a picture
to help you understand themalice of the demonic realm that
delights in evil and whatmotivates evil spirits to do
what they do.
So I think it will help youunderstand the world we live in
and understand our need for thegospel of Jesus who, by the way,

(08:21):
gave us dominion over thatrealm.
So for those of you looking formaybe more of an intellectual
or philosophical feast to stresstest the veracity of a
Christian worldview compared toall others, you can check out
the book the Universe Next Doorby James Sire.
If you want a more approachablebook that helps you kind of see
real traditional Christianityand distinguish it from, I guess

(08:42):
, what I would call the watereddown new age moral relativism
versions of Christianitypopularized today by people like
Aaron Abke, you can check outthe fantastic book Another
Gospel by Alyssa Childers.
One last minor detail during theinterview Mark was talking
about the ancient city ofGomorrah and he said Red Sea,
but what he meant was Dead Sea.

(09:03):
So, anyway, I just wanted toclean up that detail for those
of you who may want to look upwhere Sodom and Gomorrah used to
be they were by the Dead Sea.
I'll also have some other funarticles and videos in the show
notes if you want to take a lookat more of the evidence behind
what Mark and I talk about,including Mount Sinai.
Okay, without further ado, hereis Mark telling his story of

(09:24):
meeting his wife, coming tofaith in Jesus, feeling called
to ministry, and the wild ridethat ensued from there.
Being the hands and feet ofJesus is what Mark is all about.
So buckle up for a set ofstories you definitely won't
hear on mainstream media.
All right, enjoy my conversationwith the one and only Mark
Grennan.
All right, hello everyone.
Welcome back to part two of myconversation with Mr Mark

(09:45):
Grennan.
All right, hello everyone.
Welcome back to part two of myconversation with Mr Mark
Grennan.
So in the last episode I got totell you more, or he got to
tell you more about, kind, ofthe James Bond version of his
story, and in this episode Iwanted to give you a chance to
talk about just the largerpicture of your work as a
missionary, which, and like Isaid, reminds me kind of of the
New Testament book of Acts fromtime to time.
So, in the backdrop of yourwork as a missionary, you're

(10:06):
also a father of eight and youhomeschooled all your kids, and
I have six kids and I thoughtthat was a lot.
So, wow, well done.
So welcome back to the show,mark, thanks for joining me.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's good to be back.
Well, I'm done with thehomeschooling.
Oldest is, the youngest is 20,let's say 26, and he has his own
company.
So I guess homeschool it's back.
The boy that's 36, 37, he uhwas in jail with me.

(10:43):
He works for him, so they'relike do technical work for
computers and stuff.
So he's been homeschooled.
My oldest son writes programsfor Apple and has three
companies.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Dang.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Home schooling.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yes, I'm homeschooling for the win here,
like I've only gotten onegraduated so far, but I'm
excited to uh continue thejourney for the rest of them.
I can't imagine doing it anyother way now well the reason
why we did?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
because we were missionaries and we basically
had to.
They did, but she was alsodoing it before we came to be
missionaries, we were alsohomeschooling.
So I'm a skeptic at heart, evenwith this chlorine dioxide that

(11:36):
I went to jail for.
With the Bible, I was 19 yearsold really 17, hitchhiking
around the country with my buddyfrom school, high school, and
we went from Boston to Florida,florida to California,
california to Washington State,working fan power, picking

(11:59):
apples, doing whatever we coulddo, trying to find ourselves,
doing whatever we could do,trying to find ourselves.
And I'd run into a few people,christians, and would say to me
look at the Bible.
I said, well, I grew up as aCatholic and my family switched
to Mormonism.
They seemed to study more, butit wasn't the Bible, it was the

(12:20):
Book of Mormon and the Bible.
So I was just kind of like,yeah, I'm not religious, I'm
still not religious.
So when the person asked meafter hitchhiking around the
country if I knew for sure whereI would be spending eternity, I

(12:40):
told them I don't, I hope andbasically pray.
I wasn't a prayer, prayer,although that's not true.
I should back up a little bitbecause this is wild.
I got married from hitchhiking.
I mean, after I was hitchhikingI met my wife, my brother's

(13:06):
wife's best friend.
Okay, we all lived in the sametown, we all kind of knew each
other, went to school together,but she was in the cheerleading
jock area.
I was in the you know hippieyeah, you know group, even
though I liked football, playedsports, but I was more hippie

(13:29):
she was.
So we met, set us up to meet,we met, really hit it off.
Six weeks we were married.
I was thinking maybe that'swhat's missing in my life.
I need to get married, have afamily.
I've traveled all over America,so I guess I'll get married.

(13:50):
So I got married and this iswhat's wild.
I said to my wife and I'm not aprayer I said you know what?
You kind of get spiritual whenyou get married.
You kind of get spiritual whenyou get married.
I said every night hon, let'sget.
Before we go to bed, let's prayand ask God to guide our lives.

(14:10):
That's all we were doing and Iprayed because it was the last
church I was part of.
I prayed to the Father inheaven and I ended in Jesus'
name, okay, and asking God toguide us.
Not going to church, notreligious or nothing.
But the Bible says you seek me,you shall find me when you

(14:32):
search for me with your wholeheart.
And I was doing it with anhonest heart, my wife and I.
So God put some Jesus freaksright across the hall from us.
Okay, I called them Jesusfreaks back then.
Every time I walked out thedoor and they saw us.
Hey, mark, they were PuertoRicans and I loved Puerto Rican

(14:53):
rice and beans, so they'd makeme some Puerto Rican rice and
beans.
My wife came a little friendlywith her, and so one day I was
asked to go to church.
Church, hey, sunday, man, Iwork all week in construction.

(15:13):
I am going to relax and watchfootball, have a beer and chill
out because I work monday.
So they ended up.
They ended up keeping asking usnicely.
So, no, no, thank you.
So one day I come home from work, my wife's all dressed up.
We had had a fight.
This is like a month after wewere married.

(15:37):
We had had a fight of stupidity.
I want to go out with myfriends, just to go be with my
friends, because I lived downwhere I grew up and she didn't
want me to.
So it was a stupid fight.
Anyways, I come home.
That day I went to work madthinking I wonder if I should

(15:57):
stay married.
I don't know this marriagestuff.
Now she's restricting me.
You know this ain't right.
I wasn't doing anything bad.
So I come home, my wife's alldressed up, beautiful, has a
beautiful spaghetti dinner forme.
Like what's going on?
Because I'm sorry we'refighting with you.

(16:19):
I should have never did that.
You should be able to go outwith your friends, okay, okay,
never did that.
You should be able to go outwith your friends, okay, okay,
thanks, hon, we sit down.
We as reading.
She goes, well, she goes.
I gotta tell you somethinghappened to me today, like what
she goes.
When you left, I was thinkingI'm gonna divorce this bum.

(16:41):
I'm not gonna.
This is what she's thinking.
On the front straps, crying ofthe apartment building.
She's thinking that, but I'mthinking that too, I'm gonna
divorce.
Yeah, it's ain't worth it.
The lady, the jesus freak lady,comes out of names of amy.
What's the matter, barb, amy,what's the matter, barb?

(17:04):
She tells the story.
Come on in, have some tea.
She was in there for four hours.
Amy started showing her.
The Bible is what you need,barb.
This will straighten you out.
This is the history of theworld and it's funny, it's
called history, it's called hisstory.

(17:25):
Think about it, the wordhistory.
You could hyphenate his story,story of who?
God, right?
So anyways, to make a longstory short, bob said every
question I had, no matter whatit was, she'd open the Bible and
say look at this truth, lookwhat God said about this.

(17:46):
She goes to the point where,when Amy asked me, bob, do you
have peace in your life?
Not really.
Do you want to know God and himto know you?
Yeah.
Do you want to know when you'regoing to spend eternity?
The Bible says you can.
Yeah.
Do you want to know when you'regoing to spend eternity?
The Bible says you can.

(18:07):
Yeah.
That day she got saved.
She prayed, so she was tellingme Mark, I don't know the ins
and outs of it, but I asked theLord to save me.
And now it makes senseChristmas, you know, crucifixion
.
That makes sense to me.

(18:27):
Now God had to do that and topay our penalty, because we
couldn't pay it Like, well,that's cool, give me my beer and
you buy spaghetti.
I forgot all about it.
But she changed, Forgot allabout it.
Two weeks goes by, my dad callsme and my brother.

(18:47):
We had a constructionrefinishing our company.
He calls me from missouri,springfield, missouri, says why
don't you guys come down here?
Stop working in 19 below zeroweather and doing siding and
house roofs and doors.
Come down here.

(19:07):
It's a mild winter.
So me and my brother said youknow what, we're sick of this
too, let's move.
So this is what gets crazy.
We asked the people across thehall to come by because we were
leaving.
Bob was getting friendly withus.
We're leaving within a week togo to Missouri and because we

(19:31):
owned our own company, we justfinished our last job.
We took off.
So they come over and Bob madethem spaghetti.
They were eating.
We're talking, so they go.
So where are you going?
We're going to Springfield,missouri.
I saw her and her husband lookat each other like they saw a

(19:52):
ghost.
They didn't say anything.
Why Springfield Missouri?
My father?
Oh, okay, we ate.
They went home.
We left.
A couple days later, dfield,missouri, started working.
We took off because we areworkers.
The guys would go fishing, skipwork.

(20:14):
There was like 10 teams at thissiding, gutter, window
replacement, home improvementcompany.
Within four or five months wewere the number one crew.
Everybody wanted us to do theirhouse.
We bent metal.
We were really good while wedid.

(20:35):
Anyways, after six months Bobgets a call from that lady, amy.
They moved to SpringfieldMissouri Out of all places on
earth.
They had been praying.
There was a Bible college therecalled Baptist Bible College,
and they were praying whetherthey should go.

(20:55):
God, show us a sign if weshould go to Springfield
Missouri.
And that night when I told themwe're going to Springfield
Missouri, they're like that mustbe the sign the girl that just
got saved is moving down there.
We need to talk to her husband.
Let's go to SpringfieldMissouri, let's go there to

(21:16):
Bible College.
So they invited me and her, mywife, over for Puerto Rican rice
and beans.
Sure, I'll be there.
We started eating, talking justabout what we're doing, what
they're doing, until 3 in themorning.
But after a couple hours theybrought out the Bible and I was

(21:39):
more of a pain in the neck thanmy wife.
I was like wait, what aboutthis?
What about that?
What about this?
What about that?
What about this, what aboutthat?
And they were like really goodin the Bible, like well, bible
says this.
I'm saying so.
You're telling me that bookknows everything about
everything a man could want toknow and the answers for it.

(22:00):
Yep, you're telling me, if Icome, because they explained the
gospel, explained what Jesusdid, how we could never pay our
price, how he was the lamb ofGod, and explained a lot.
It wasn't just quickly.

(22:21):
I said you're telling me, if Ibow my head right now and accept
what he did for me, he'll payfor all my sins and I had a lot
of them from high school and allmy sins and he'll write my name
in the Lamb's Book of Life andI'll be accepted by him, not
because of what I'm doing, myworks, but it's a gift he'll
give me.
Yes, I want that and I prayed.

(22:44):
My prayer was something likeLord, if you'll take me, I want
that and I prayed.
My prayer was something likeLord, if you'll take me, I want
you.
I believe what it says.
If the Bible's true and I'mspeaking rhetorically, if that's
your word, and I learned laterthat what things we're going to
talk about, how real it reallyis, I want that, I want that.
So I bowed my head, praying,and I felt like almost like

(23:09):
Pilgrim's Progress, when Pilgrimhad that weight fall off his
back at the cross.
I don't know if you rememberthat scene?
I felt like wow, I just feeldifferent.
I feel different, I feelrelieved.
Didn't know the ins and outs ofit.

(23:30):
But we went.
We didn't even go to sleep thatnight.
We went to the InternationalHouse of Pancakes.
It was called back in 1978.
Before it was called IHOP.
We just sat there just likeamazed.
I was amazed, my wife wasexcited.
How did they find us?

(23:50):
How did they know it was crazy?
So little did I know.
My wife had sent a few lettersto him so they had our address,
they tracked us down.
But I'm like we got to tell ourfamily.
This book is what I never reallyknew was in it.
This book is really what itsays.

(24:12):
What's in it.
Everybody needs to know aboutthis.
So we went home with the bedyou know, slept.
But that Sunday I was itbecause my dad, my sister, my
brother, his kids, my wife we'dhave Sunday dinner together
Because none of us went tochurch.

(24:32):
We'd have Sunday dinner.
I love my family's cooking.
I stood up at the table and soI got to tell you guys something
.
They're all looking up what.
They thought.
My wife was pregnant.
That's what they told me later.
I gotta tell you somethingreally important.
They're all looking at what.

(24:54):
So this week, and I told themthat story, this is what
happened to me and I was a punkkid growing up.
My dad had a lot of.
My mom had a lot of problemwith me.
My brother was the good guy,never gave him or my sister any
problems.
I gave him all the problems.
So my dad goes good, mark, I'mhappy for you.

(25:16):
Everybody's like good, let'seat, so we ate.
But there was a burning in mysoul.
I gotta tell more people.
My family needs to know.
First of all, I found out later,jeremiah 20.
Jeremiah tells the Lord youdeceived me.

(25:37):
I'm done.
I'm never gonna speak aboutyour word again, cause every
time they beat me up they throwme in prison.
I'm going to shut up.
And then he said it was like afire in his bosom.
He couldn't shut up.
And that's what I was like.
We'd be out working and I'd betelling the homeowner hey, you

(25:58):
know what happened to me.
I couldn't explain a lot ofstuff.
You know what happened to me.
I'd tell him this.
I couldn't explain a lot ofstuff.
You know what happened to me?
I tell them this.
And then I started going tochurch because of the people
that showed me Said now, come tochurch.
I go.
Yeah, I want to go to churchnow.
I want to go to Sunday school.
I want to learn this book.
I want to go Sunday night, Iwant to learn this book.

(26:21):
So I was learning and learningand God's put it in my heart I
want you to teach and preach theword of God.
I'm like Lord, that ain't goingto happen.
I stumble, I fumble, I'm notgoing to.
My voice isn't too strong.
I'm not going to preach.
I'll be a good believer, I'llhelp others, I'll tell people.

(26:43):
But he kept burning me, burningme, burning me.
So one day I told my brother Iwant to quit and go to Bible
college.
He goes.
What?
Why?
Because I have to quit.
Because if I don't quit I can'twork.
I'll go to Bible college One orthe other.

(27:19):
What are you going to do forwork?
No idea.
I quit.
So I rolled in Bible collegewithout a job.
I had a little money saved upbecause we did pretty good.
This company only liked our tohire people from that Bible
college because they were honest, they wouldn't steal from them,
we would make it.
It's a woodworking plant.
So they hired me.
I was there the whole threeyears I was at Bible college.

(27:42):
Now I got a job and I had thethird shift so I could go to
school, sleep a little bit, goto work by 11.
Come home at seven, keep, runacross the street, go to Bible
college, sleep a little bit,study a little bit, go back to
school.

(28:03):
I did four years of college inthree and every course I took
Bible Bible.
Other people are thinking youknow philosophy of Christian
college, I took Job, I took allBible courses.
I want to know this book.
You know I took Job, I took allBible courses.
I want to know this book.
You know I took history,biblical archaeology.

(28:26):
I took everything I could tookthat would show me that this
book is real.
Plus, I'm going to churchlearning, listening to
missionaries come.
This church was huge, it waslike 3,000 people.
I started driving a businviting kids to come to church.

(28:47):
We had 600 kids who were takingto church on buses.
So, and little kids would comeand their parents are drunk, I'd
dress them up and you know,because the parents knew me,
take them to children's church.
I'm growing.
God says to me about a yearafter I want you to be a
missionary.
What Missionary?
Now I'm teaching, even inSunday school class.

(29:08):
So that's my salvationexperience in my Bible learning.
So God tells me, go back toMassachusetts and start a church
, because I grew up there neverhearing the word of God.
Now I don't know the wholeBible, you know.
I don't know what you, how youfeel, but every time I read this

(29:32):
book it shows me something else.
This book is alive.
People go.
I've heard this saying it's notoriginal by me.
It's not how many times you gothrough the Bible that counts,
it's how many times the Biblegoes through you that counts.
And I found a church.

(29:55):
Really it was only six monthsold.
There was a guy that went to thesame school as mine in
Massachusetts.
He had this little group oflike 15 people.
Right, he goes, come up here,get a job and I'll help.
You know, we'll help you but wecan't pay you.
I said, good, at least I'm inMassachusetts, I go up there, I

(30:19):
get a job and I start going outon Saturdays and Sundays talking
to people bringing their kidsto school, to Sunday school,
right.
In six weeks the church grewabout 100 people right, because
people are getting saved.
And so he goes hey, I want youhere full time with me.

(30:40):
You stay here and it looks likethere's enough money.
You're not making much money.
This was 1979.
No, sorry, 82.
, 82.
I was making pretty good moneyas a woodworker.
But they said I think we canpay money as a woodworker.
But he, they said I think wecan pay you rent and stuff like

(31:00):
that.
So we did.
Year later he leaves and Ibecome the pastor and it's the
fastest growing church inMassachusetts.
Cause all we did Christian wasteach the Bible.
No philosophies, nothing, justthat book.
I had MIT professors coming, Ihad doctors, I had state

(31:25):
troopers, I had ex-hookers.
Some of them might not even beex-hookers.
I'm just saying we hadeverybody Drug addicts, they
just wanted to learn the Bible.
I'd have debates.
I'd have the Jehovah'sWitnesses come in.
Tell us what you believe.
Then I'd open the Bible andshow the church.
This is what the Bible says.

(31:46):
I'd have Mormons, catholicpriests, everybody come in,
because I wanted people to beable to use that book.
Okay, and we got involved withmissions.
We wanted to help missions getaround the world.
The last thing Jesus said as heascended into heaven on Mount

(32:06):
of Olives and I've been there isgo into all the world and tell
them you shall be witnesses untome, both in Jerusalem, judea,
Samaria and the other most partsof the earth.
And God says to me, both inJerusalem, judea, samaria and
the uttermost parts of the earth.
And God says to me go, I got abig church, he goes, I want you
to go.
And what happened was westarted sending this track

(32:29):
ministries.
A little track is a littlepamphlet with the word of God in
it.
Right, and I distractministries to get them around
back from the whole world.
I accepted the Lord and it'sfrom Uganda or Nigeria different
places, but a lot were comingfrom Nigeria.

(32:51):
So we started sending them thebook of John and the book of
Romans, two books of the NewTestament and a little Bible
course so they could start fromthose two books.
Bro, we had 40,000 responsesfrom Nigeria in a year.
So I got to go.

(33:11):
I mean, we have about 10 peoplethat stood out.
They were going through theBible courses really quick.
So we picked those 10 out and Itold the church I need to go
over there, visit these 10people and see what's going on,
see if it's a scam.
So me and the guy that's thepastor now because I left there,

(33:32):
black guy I figured, oh, he'sgoing to be called there, he's a
black guy going to Nigeria.
We get there, we find some goodpeople, really stunning, even
trying to start churches.
We're like, wow.
So as I'm coming back, god saysto me go to Nigeria, resign the

(33:52):
church.
I'm like what?
We're thinking about?
Buying a piece of land,building a building Church?
We went from 15 people to 600.
We're growing like crazy.
Lord, are you sure Back here?
You sure right?
Are you sure Go?

(34:13):
All right, lord, I'll tell youwhat I got to go preach at this
place when I'm all right,driving home.
Listen, I was in a missionconference.
They wanted me to preach whatwe were doing.
So I come back and I said, lord, I'll go if my wife doesn't
give me any problem whatsoever.
We just bought a house, we gotthree kids and we're living okay

(34:39):
, not rich, but good.
The church is good.
If she says, when I tell herthat I want to go to Nigeria,
she just says, okay, let's go,I'll do it.
And I'm thinking, good, I gothim, I don't think she's going
to say that.
So I'm up in the morning.
I come back to this.

(35:01):
I'm really, really perplexed,would be the word.
I'm sitting out in the livingroom, two in the morning,
thinking I don't know, lord.
I'm thinking of all the reasonswhy not to go.
I'm going to leave these people.
You're going to buy one Stu.
You've been training men.
They'll Took away all myexcuses.

(35:23):
Then my wife walks up, walksout, feed the baby.
She goes.
Why are you up?
I go.
I got to tell you something.
She's feeding the baby.
I go.
God called me to go to Nigeria.
I think she goes, okay,wherever God wants us.
I'm like, oh man, I didn't wantto hear that.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
I did not want to hear that from her Commission,
right then.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
So because I knew so many people that wanted me to
preach for them and knew a lotof people in Massachusetts and
New England and around thecountry, because I went to
school with a lot of people inMassachusetts and New England
and around the country, becauseI went to school with a lot of
people, I raised the money to goto Nigeria in three months.
I raised $4,000 a month inthree months just making phone

(36:12):
calls because they knew me, knewwhat I was doing.
Yeah, we'll back you it.
Who's taking the church?
Told walter.
Sure he's a good guy, all right.
So in like four months I was innigeria.
That's how quick it happened.
Okay, now let me tell you somewild stuff that happened in

(36:33):
nigeria well, let me let me havethat interject here.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Well, you're just you .
I've heard a few different ofyour interviews lately and you
have some of the experiencesthat make some of the weirdest
parts of the Bible make sense,and they're not just fairy tales
.
Some of the stories you told.
I paused the video and pushedmy chair back.
I was like what, wow?
So I guess I want to.
If you can start with thesestories that you've got or the

(37:00):
things you've experienced, we'llkind of frame a biblical
worldview from a high levelfirst.
So talk about, I guess, yourunderstanding of heaven and the
angelic and demonic realm andjust to give people some
intellectual pegs to hang someof the stories you're about to
tell them on.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Sure, sure, because it's a spiritual book.
And you go to Isaiah 14, go toEzekiel 28, you're going to read
about.
In fact, I'm writing a bookright now about a king in his
kingdom called the Government ofGod.
There's only one government, asit says in Isaiah 9, 6.

(37:35):
The government shall be uponhis shoulder, it says.
A child will be born, a virginshall conceive and his name
shall be called WonderfulCounselor, the Mighty God, the
Prince of Peace, the EverlastingFather, and the government
shall be upon his shoulder.
So the only government thatreally exists, that's eternal is

(37:56):
God's government.
Ok, so there's a spiritualrealm.
The only government that reallyexists, that's eternal is God's
government.
Okay, so there's a spiritualrealm.
It started out with God'screation.
Before him there was nothing,because he always existed.
There was no creation, heexisted.
Then he said you know, I'mparaphrasing because I'm going

(38:17):
Genesis 1, I'm going to make manin my own image, and that's
interesting in itself.
We're the only creaturescreated by God that can love,
speak.
We're made in his think, build,design.

(38:37):
You know others creatures dolimited things.
You might get a.
I was with a guy.
This is a story I never toldyou.
I was with a guy in Ecuador aguy named Patrick Flanagan.
For six months he was a genius.
At 13 years old.
He taught dolphins, he learnedtheir language and taught the

(38:58):
military how to talk to thedolphins so they could go look
for mines.
I mean, bro, crazy.
Yeah, there's a whole story inthat.
I had breakfast with him everyday for six months.
He was a believer and he knewchlorine dioxide too.
But I'm getting off the track.
So you got Lucifer Beautiful,got Lucifer beautiful.

(39:21):
Lucifer beautiful cherub abovethe throne of God.
The music was made in him.
God made music come out of him.
It's the first time you hearabout music.
Lucifer and pride got into his.
It says, because he was sobeautiful, you'd walk into the
throne room of God and you'd seeGod.

(39:43):
And God looks like us, or welook like him Beard hair.
It says it many timesthroughout the scriptures he's
sitting there.
People come into the throne,people what, come into the
throne, throne, and you see thisbeautiful thing above him that
I'm sure even the angels wouldlook up and go spectacular,
right, spectacular.

(40:04):
He covered the throne of God.
God made him to lookspectacular.
He, through pride, says hmm,I'm going to sit upon that
throne, and a third of theangels say yeah, we think you
can do it.
Well, he's not the creator.

(40:25):
It's a long story short.
He says he cast him down toearth, to hell.
He made a hell for him and casthim down to earth
Simultaneously.
You got Adam there.
Adam's going to be on the scene, satan's fallen and that's the
creation and the problems thatwe've had.

(40:47):
And you know that the Bible saysin Romans, chapter 2, that God
put in every man and woman theword of God.
It's called the conscience.
That will accuse or excuse youand say put it in us.
And that's why he can make thedeclaration in Psalm 19, say the

(41:11):
Word of God is all over theworld, no matter where it goes.
Everybody can see creation andspeak.
There's no language where God'svoice is not heard.
And he put it in Psalm 19.
It says it's in the testimonyof a man too.
So all men are without excusebecause they can see creation.

(41:32):
I'll tell you a story in Nigeriabecause this will follow right
what I'm talking about.
I came into a village going tohelp another missionary deliver
a bunch of material.
I come up to this village andit's dark and there's no lights
in the jungle, just myVolkswagen bus.
I call it the Jesus buggy.
Right it said missionary, onthe front so they wouldn't

(41:55):
harass me.
I come up to this village andwe're lost in this jungle Right
and he's like 20, 30 huts.
People are on a fire out frontand in Nigeria a lot of people
speak English, majority speakEnglish, but they have the
tribal tongue.
So I said my name.
You got to speak slow.
My name, you know.
Missionary, I want to talk toyou for a minute.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
No listen.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
They'd let me come to a school in the morning and
open up in prayer and speak tothem about the Bible, 15 years
before school, any school, anytime in Nigeria, right?
So they'd stand, they'd sitthere, come in.
They call me O'Ebo, come in,o'ebo, white man.
So I come up and I always havea microphone because my voice

(42:42):
right.
So I start telling them I go,look up.
They all look up, see thosestars, see that moon.
Who made that?
Who made that?
They're like creator, god, andthey're not religious people.
But you know, I go.
Okay, how about that palm tree,banana tree, this and that, that

(43:05):
chicken, chickens walkingaround and God?
Well, let me tell you a storyabout what God did and I tell
them about how God became man,dwelt among us, became flesh,
and I teach them that story, bro, the whole village, when I
asked them would you like tohave him save you?

(43:26):
Would you like to have him bepart and accept what he did for
your sin?
We're all sinners, everybody.
The whole village, yes, yes,and they did it.
So the whole village, yes, yes,and they did it.
So the Bible says that theBible, about itself, is quick

(43:46):
and powerful and sharper thanany two edged sword.
It pierces to the soul andspirit and the joints of marrow
and is a discerner of thethoughts and intents of our
heart, not our head, our heartwhich is tied to our heart okay,
well, so talk about.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I remember hearing you tell a story about um,
seeing a giant skeleton.
So then the book of genesis,chapter six, and then you also
mentioned the book of enoch.
There it talks about thisangelic realm coming down and
there's this essentiallyincursion, there's this mingling
of the angelic realm and thehuman realm.
And so talk about those three,the Genesis 6, the Enoch.

(44:29):
The giant skeleton.
You've seen, where were you?
What was that like?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Crazy.
Genesis 6 is a book called thebook of enoch, which I think is
an extra biblical writing thatcould really be true.
Um, written by maybe enoch,that the, that the fallen angels
came down and the bible talksabout them.
They had physical relationship.

(44:54):
Remember the?
The angels might even look likeus, and every time you see an
angel in the Bible it looks likea man.
Okay, at least one of the formsof the angels.
And so they had a relationship.
These giants came up.
So I like history, I likestudying, and so I started

(45:15):
finding giant skulls, picturesof them from around the world,
and I'm talking about skullsthat were three feet tall.
Skull, just a skull.
So in relationship to the body,these giants could have been 35
, 40, 50 feet tall, and theBible says when they came out of

(45:38):
the spies that went into Canaan, they came back.
They said we were likegrasshoppers in their sight.
So if a man standing next to agrasshopper, that thing he's
looking at could be 50, 60 feethigh.
Well, in Ecuador, there was astatue there that a priest was

(46:01):
hiding, and it's called theValley of the Giants.
Weird this area calledVilcabamba and there's a
mountain that looks like a giantlaying down.
Okay, I mean crazy.
Well, they found this statue.
You can even not statue, excuseme, skeleton.

(46:22):
You can even look it up, loja,l-o-j-h.
Ecuador, skeleton.
It's 35 feet tall.
They put it back together Afterthis priest died.
He had it.
They put it back together.
It's in a museum, museum.
It's 35 feet tall.
You can see it in loja, ecuador.

(46:43):
Now also the smithsonianinstitute.
Smithsonian institute wasestablished by mr smithstone to
study two things the, the hollowearth, and giants.
They had all kinds of skeletonsand they used to be all again

(47:05):
pictures of them.
But they destroyed all thepictures and they destroyed all
the skeletons in the early 1900sbecause they didn't want people
to know what was going on there.
But all over the world you canlook them up.
You can find giants, giants,giant skeletons to know what was
going on there.
But all over the world you canlook them up, you can find
giants, giants, giants count.
They found femurs that are sixor seven feet.

(47:26):
So if a femur is six and sevenfeet long, that means a giant's
30 or 40 feet tall.
Remember the mythology Jason andthe Argonauts, where they had
the one-eyed giant.
Those things are real andthat's a good way of explaining
how those rocks got on thepyramid, those guys could pick

(47:47):
those.
A few giants could just pickthem up, or four giants, it
doesn't matter how.
These guys are strong, right?
So maybe that's the excuse forthat.
So I believe what those thingstalk about the Bible is God
always give you evidence.
Let me give you another thingBabylon, right, babylon, it was

(48:12):
there.
They know where it was.
These are historical sites.
They know where it was.
These are historical sites.
The Bible says in the last days, where the Euphrates and the
Tigris rivers are, there's fourangels chained up and one day
it's going to dry up and, by theway, it's almost dried up.
In the last days, it'll dry upand there's four angels under

(48:33):
the Euphrates.
Guess what they're hearing?
Now you can go on YouTube andyou can hear the screams of it
sounds like screams in the caves.
Are they those angels?

Speaker 1 (48:45):
I have not heard that one.
How about?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
this In Russia.
They dug, they wanted thebiggest, they wanted to see how
thick the crust was, so they dugthe deepest.
Well, not a well, but wholeborehole.
It went down 23 feet, I believe, in Siberia, right, and they

(49:06):
hit it like a cowbird.
They pulled it up.
When they pulled it up, thedrill bit was glowing red.
So they hit a fire, right.
They said we got to punchthrough this, there's nothing we
can drill with now.
But one guy had the idea andthese were all engineers, all

(49:28):
atheists.
They had an idea let's put amicrophone down there.
So they did.
They put it down and it onlylasted 15 seconds because as
soon as it hit, the real hot pothad melted.
But for 15 seconds all theycould hear was screaming.
You can listen to this onYouTube the screams of the

(49:51):
damned in hell.
It was on a newspaper articlein Russia.
They capped it and they allbecame believers.
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 (49:59):
wow, I had not heard that one either yeah, it's a
historical site in siberia.
There's newspaper articlesabout it, so these things are
real yeah, well, another onethat I've I've known about for a
while now.
You got to go to Mount Araratand see Noah's Ark.
So that's a.

(50:20):
I didn't go, you didn't go,okay.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I didn't go.
I'm sorry.
I have the newspaper article.
The guy that went, I have allthe facts.
He wrote a book about all thepictures.
I was going there before theyarrested me.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Ah, okay, that's what it was.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
It's a museum.
You can look it up.
You can see the boat.
It's the exact same dimensionsas it's described in the book of
Genesis Exactly.
There's chambers inside thatwere big enough to house
everything.
Remember this they didn't takea full giant excuse me giraffe.

(51:04):
They didn't take a fullelephant, they took babies.
This is why the ark could couldhandle all those.
They didn't take a full eyelion and probably ate them.
They took compass.
They only.
They're here and you raise acop, they won't eat you.
They love you.
You know people raise them, soit's plenty of space for all the
animals on Earth at the time intheir young time period of

(51:25):
growth.
Right, young, not babies, butsmall, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
And that's there that comes up.
Since high school, I've beenfascinated by that one.
Since high school, I've beenfascinated by that one, and I
would challenge people listeningto this to consider the
archaeological record or thegeological record through the
lens of what, if that was trueand the best example would
actually be the Grand Canyon.
So just entertain the idea of awhole lot of water in a little

(51:52):
bit of time, rather than alittle bit of water over a
really long time, and see if theevidence doesn't make you
scratch your head and thinkdifferently about it.
Anything else you want to addon that one?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Well, the thing is, you got evil, you got good.
Everybody knows that.
You don't have to talk toanybody.
That is bad and is good.
You can tell the difference.
Well, why would the evil ofthis universe, this world, want

(52:24):
evidence that the Bible's trueout?
They wouldn't, so they suppressit.
You don't hear about it, right?
Give you another one.
When they crossed the Red Sea.
I haven't been there either,but I've got all the articles,
I've got all the pictures and Iwas headed there and they
arrested me.
This is the places I'll tellyou, the places I have been.
So they found from Egypt toSaudi Arabia.

(52:50):
It's 3,000 feet deep or more inthe Red Sea, but in this one
section called Nebulous Beach Ithink I'm pronouncing that right
it goes up to 900 feet and it'slike a mile wide and it goes
all the way across to SaudiArabia.
Solomon, do it.
Solomon put a post on eitherside and they found those posts

(53:14):
and they even said on those bigcolumns that what happened there
?
Okay, but they dove there, andnot at the 900-foot level, but
going down they found chariots,swords, bones, gold chariot.
They found all that stuff.
So that's where the crossingwas Right.
Why won't they tell us aboutthat in high school.

(53:37):
Right, they get on the otherside, they.
He goes to this.
Well, I mean, excuse me, thesepalm trees and with this poison
water that's still there, theygo.
He goes to mount sinai, getsthe 10 commandments.
That mountain is burnt.
All the other mountains arefine.

(53:57):
You can look this up on GoogleMaps.
It's burnt.
The Bible says the top wasburnt.
He comes down.
They have an altar to thegolden calf and there's an altar
there with all kinds of bullsinscribed on it and it's fenced

(54:17):
in by the Saudi Arabiangovernment.
It says do not come here tryingto find gold.
It says in English and inArabic right, the wells are
there, excuse me, the columnsthey set up for the 12 tribes
are there?
The rock that Moses hit?
It's like 30 feet tall.
It's split right in the middleand, like this, water came out

(54:41):
of it.
No water now, but you could seewhere it washed away the
limestone all the way down tothe valley.
Those things are there.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah, why I was?
on that one, like in high school, and I've seen different
pictures of it Because at onepoint probably I don't know know
five or ten years ago, I hadthe thought I wonder if you
could see this on google earth.
So I went and looked at ityesterday to see what was there.
So years ago what you'retalking about was all over.
You could click.
They had pins all over in thegeology or the pictures of that

(55:15):
from space, however, howeverhigh they were, and those
pictures it had.
Here's the altar and you cansee it.
There's golden calves inscribedon it.
It had the split rock which hasburnt rock.
Right next to it it has thesummit, it has the cave, it had
the boundary markers and all ofit was mapped.
And now it's all that scrubbedand you get a link to Wikipedia
that basically says this isn'tthe real Mount Sinai.

(55:37):
Some weirdos just think it is.
Of course they would.
That's what they would do.
They would take all of thatevidence away and not make it
easy to find now.
Would you do?

Speaker 2 (55:46):
that this is what they did to me in court.
They didn't show any evidencethat would make me look good in
court.
That's what a lawyer does,prosecution does.
They don't want you to be right, they want you to be wrong.
So now I'll fast forward to2019.
That's what I had in my headbefore.
My son, john and I and he'sstill in prison for nothing Him

(56:10):
and myself and our wives we goto Israel.
What do we do?
We go there.
We rent a car.
We open our Bible no tourists.
We know our Torah guide oranything.
We know the Bible.
We're going to go and checkthese places out.
Okay, one of the places we gowhich is really cool is a place

(56:33):
called Masana.
This is a history where in 70AD.
They ran there to basicallytheir last survival as the Jews.
The Romans are going to attackthem and this is the last
stronghold.
They ended up building a bridgetook them two years.

(56:55):
They end up.
Before they get there they slittheir throat.
But I don't know if you knowthis.
The verse that's there is outof Ezekiel that they would come
back in the land, ezekiel 36.
That's the verse they found atMasada.
Now, when you're up at Masadaand you look down, you're
looking right down on Gomorrah.

(57:16):
That's the city of Gomorrah,right there.
Sodom is south right.
Then you got Amnon is a boring.
They're all four cities next tothe Red Sea part through a
crisp.
Okay, so me and my son John, wego down there.
We don't listen to any signs.
It says don't come here.
We go in there, walk in.

(57:37):
There's a sphinx at thebeginning of all those cities A
sphinx, you know it looks likeEgypt and a pyramid which they
call a ziggurat, at thebeginning of all the cities.
We go over to the sphinx andwe're because now this is all

(58:01):
ash.
You could touch it, it's justash ash and really it's the
chemical name of it is sodiumsulfate, right?
So we're hearing other people.
We knew this, a guy named RonWyatt that discovered a lot of
stuff.
Man, I wish I knew about.
When I knew about chlorinedioxide we probably could have

(58:25):
eradicated the cancer.
He probably got the cancer fromdoing all the radiation when
they were looking for Noah's Arkbecause they used these ground
radiation things where theycould find everything.
That's probably where he gothis cancer.
But anyways, we start chippinginto it and we find balls about
this, big, different sizes, andI knew it because I saw other

(58:47):
people do it.
I got to get these and we getabout 10 or 15 of them and we
cut them open and it's sulfurthat's 95 to 99% pure.
It only exists in those fourcities, nowhere on earth.
The closest um concentrationyou can find, a percentage of

(59:09):
sulfur you can find, is 45 to 50.
Near a volcano these are 95 ormore when you light them.
It's crazy how they light.
You can only change limestonewhich those cities were made of

(59:29):
into calcium sulfate bysomething that burns at 6,000
degrees.
And that's what pure sulfurburns at 6,000 degrees.
So we're at Sodom and Gomorrah.
Well, we're at Gomorrah, inevidence, god came out of heaven

(59:51):
, burned the city to ashes,burned it 6,000 degrees.
And there's another evidenceyou could go, we walked over to.
I went to a Hebron, hebron,right, we want to go to Hebron

(01:00:12):
when Abraham, isaac, jacob,jacob, was married, married, not
buried, buried, not married,buried, and their wives, except
Sarah I mean Rebecca, rachel,excuse me, rachel she was buried
Outside of Bethlehem.
So we go there and Hebron, andyou looking in this cave, the

(01:00:36):
cave that they bought, abrahambought, and you look down and
that's where those guys areburied.
Wow, then I hear in town,there's the place where the
angels met Abraham when theywere going to Sodom and Gomorrah
with the Lord to burn Sodom andGomorrah, those cities.

(01:01:00):
So really, there's an oak treethere, it's called Abraham's Oak
.
Where is it?
I'm telling you, we got a guythat's driving us, because we
did get a guy, because you can'tdrive a rental car that has
Israeli plates on it becausethey'll stone you, they'll throw
stones at you.
So we got a PalestinianChristian guy from Bethlehem

(01:01:24):
named Joseph drove us therebecause he has Palestinian
plates.
So I go, we find a place, it'sclosed, it's a holiday, but I
had a telephone number.
I go, joseph call.
He calls.
The guy says no, we're closedtoday.
You know whatever they'retalking about.
And I'm talking like an Indian,not a Arab.

(01:01:45):
And he goes listen, I can tellhim I'll give him $100.
He opens the gate in 30 minutes.
All of a sudden the car comesdown right, opens the gate.
We go in, locks the gate and goover to Abraham's Oak
5,000-year-old tree, right 5,000.
Then it's got two other onesnext to it.

(01:02:07):
It just died the week before wegot there.
But right out of the middle ofit is a new sprout coming out of
it.
So we took pictures, did alittle interview there about it
5,000-year-old tree and he gaveme a piece of it.
I got a piece of that oak treethat's 5,000 years old.

(01:02:27):
Okay, okay, there we go toJerusalem.
Right, the Garden of Gethsemane.
Is the God of Gethsemane.
Here's the garden of Gethsemane.
Gethsemane means the oil press.
It's kind of, you know, jesusbeing pressed there.
They pressed oil there.
So there's a 2500 year olivetree there, right there.

(01:02:49):
That was 500 years old whenJesus walked this earth.
That tree we got a piece ofthat too.
It was all chained up andeverything.
But the God really liked ourbeautiful wives because they're
Colombian, and they asked, hey,could you get us a piece of that
tree?
Oh sure, and he gave it to him.

(01:03:11):
That's a good lesson to alwayshave a beautiful life with you
when you're in Israel.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
That is a good lesson to remember is to have your
beautiful wife with you whereveryou go.
Very nice, all right.
Well, any other Old Testamentrelated stories where you've
seen some of these sites whereit's just kind of blown your
mind, like the stuff that youwould think maybe the Bible
wasn't true here and you foundout, sure enough, I've been
there, I've seen it, I know itis now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Well, I went to the place of the skull.
You probably went there, right,you saw the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Calvary, golgotha, or okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Golgotha.
Yeah, yeah, the skull.
It looks like a skull, justlike they said.
There was a road to Damascus,right and right outside, right
next to that, you go through alittle garden.
There's a garden and there's atomb there that's carved out of
rock, right, no one's ever been.

(01:04:07):
Only one person's been there.
The Bible says it was Jesus,and it's never been occupied.
Since you go in there, it'sright by Bogotha, in a garden
too.
There's some more evidence.
We went underneath through some200 feet to the river, the
aqueduct system that the Romansmade back then.
That's still there.

(01:04:28):
All the stuff the Bible talksabout is there.
We went to Capernaum, right?
Oh, I'll give you a really goodone.
We went to the Valley of Elah.
Okay, yeah, that's where God,david and Goliath were.
We went to the Valley of Elahright, we're standing there and
there's a river that goes rightby.

(01:04:49):
It's called Lachindron.
I'm blank for a minute.
Anyway, the river where Davidpicked four, five smooth stones
out of we went down to the river.
Guess what?
Every stone in that river wereround and smooth.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
I did one of them.
Yeah, I've been there.
It's like huh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Okay, you're like huh .
Okay, you're like whoa.
Okay, you got the battle there.
You got a place where David was.
You got Capernaum where Jesuswalked.
Nothing's been built up there.
Jesus walked.
There's a natural amphitheatertype hillside where you could
sit on the seashore and speaknot with my voice, right, all

(01:05:36):
those things are there.
The place where the maniac ofGadara, they come out of the
tombs, that cemetery's there.
The Jordan River's there, wherethey crossed over from the
Jordan when they came out of thewilderness, that stone thing
they set up is still there.
Jericho that fell down is stillthere, fallen.

(01:05:59):
I mean, we went to, oh, we wentto the Shechem where Moses went
, made his no Moses, where Moseswent, where Abraham went to
make his first sacrifice andthen Joshua went, where you have

(01:06:21):
the two mountains, geshurim andEbal.
The altars are still on top ofthose mountains and guess what?
Joshua's bones are?
Downtown we drank out of Jacob'swell Jacob's well.
There was a big tour groupthere.
They built churches over allthose places, which is good

(01:06:45):
because it preserved them right.
So we get there and no one isthere.
They're eating lunch in thetour group.
We go down to the basementwhere the Jacob's Well is and
there's an old guy there sellingtrinkets.
Again, he's looking at ourwives because they're beautiful
and I go hey, can I drink out ofthe well?

(01:07:06):
Let's do whatever you want.
It's about 300 feet down.
We took it.
Oh, it was delicious cold water.
Jacob's well is exactly.
His bones are there InJerusalem.
We drank out of David's well.
David's tomb is right there.
Everything is there, bro thelions.

(01:07:26):
Now Jerusalem has been built upmany times to being destroyed
and rebuilt.
So you're not walking on theoriginals, but you can go down
to the original places, right,but David's Well is still
David's Well because it's 100feet down below the original
Jerusalem right now.

(01:07:47):
We went so many places.
You go to the place that'scalled Capernaum.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
No, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Caesarea, where Paul was held.
Caesarea, the amphitheaterwhere Herod dropped dead and
turned into worms.
The amphitheater is there, allthe things that it says about
Paul there, where else did we go?
Caesarea, philippi, where thegates of hell is an opening

(01:08:19):
there and they say that's wherethe gates of hell, everything
that hasn't been built up, like,you know, metropolis, it's
still countryside.
It's exactly in the same formit was when Jesus walked this
earth proving the Bible.
Now, another place I went towas Qumran.
Did you go to Qumran?

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I did, I went there too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, yeah, that was found in 1948.
Some shepherd's boys throwingrocks into a cave they had thing
.
They climbed up and they findthese clay pots in just that
cave but later climbed up andthey find these clay pots in
just that cave but later onfound many more with animal
skins in it that didn't get bador destroyed or rot because of

(01:09:04):
the climate there and they found5,000 manuscripts in those
manuscripts, 2,500 years ago,from the Old Testament, say the
exact things that are in the OldTestament today.
God, not only God we have hisword but he preserved his word.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Yeah, the complete scroll of the book of Isaiah,
which is a long book.
The whole thing was there too.
It's just remarkable the amountof detail and preservation of
some of these Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
No, just the fact that, after saying all that and
there's more- no, there's somuch After saying all that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, I just recently got back from Greece and.
Turkey just hearing or justwalking in the footsteps of Paul
, and so much of the archaeology.
The last hundred years hasunearthed so many references to
things that are the only recordwe had was in the Bible, and now
we know exactly where that was.
Now we have the record of Herodand Pilate and other people who

(01:10:05):
we just didn't have much theseven churches of the book of
Revelation.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
All in Turkey.
Seven churches, yeah, all there.
All in Turkey.
Seven churches, yeah, all there.
All there Corinth, athens, marsHill, all that stuff's there
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
That was remarkable.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
And why is it being suppressed, except for people
that are seeking for it?
Why isn't they teaching this inschools?
Why isn't they teaching this inschools?
Because they don't want peopleto know that the Bible is not
only saying things about God,but it's been preserved by God
and it's the history of theuniverse from the beginning to

(01:10:44):
the end.
Why?
Because the more people thathear that, the more people are
going to say wait a minute, Ithink this is true, I want that,
yeah, and they're going to getin the word of God.
And it's still the number onebestseller on earth.
You know what number two is?

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
You know, in the Pilgrim's Progress.
I didn't know that A guy namedJohn yeah, John Bunyan wrote it.
A guy named John Bunyan wroteit right and how he wrote it was
amazing.
He was drunk one day walkingdown in London, drunk, not a
believer, nothing, and some guyhad thrown a little Bible track

(01:11:25):
and said I have some sinner pickthis up.
Lord, he picked it up, read itCould say he became a believer,
born again, whatever term youwant to use regenerated,
accepted the Lord.
He picked it up, read it becamea believer, born again,
whatever term you want to useregenerated, accepted the Lord,
whatever you want.
And he started preaching.
Right, he starts preaching andthey throw him in.
He said you start preaching,we're going to put you in a
dungeon.

(01:11:46):
He spent 12 years in a dungeonand he's writing that book in
London.
It's the second mostbest-selling book earth wow, I
didn't know that everybodyshould read that book, right?

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
yeah, all right.
Well, fast forward a little bitduring like so new testament
wise, or some of the stuff thatwe see at least in the new
testament.
You had a couple stories Iheard of seeing experiencing
people who were possessed, likethere's a.
There's a lot of exorcisms inthe New Testament where demons
have possessed people and getthem to do amazing things or
crazy things.

(01:12:19):
Tell us about your experienceof seeing some demon-possessed
people in the mission field.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
In Nigeria I was.
On the weekends we'd go to theopen market, buy stuff.
With the same token, we'd notonly buy stuff, but we'd pass
out Word of God inviting peopleto church, right.
And now this is Nigeria, 500miles north of the equator.

(01:12:46):
In the summer it gets up to 130degrees.
It is so hot, bro, on the sun,so hot in Nigeria.
So I'm walking through and theyall have these lean twos.
You can get some shade whileyou're buying your thing.
I got to this back part of themarket and it got cold.
What's going on here?

(01:13:08):
What's going on here?
And I'm standing in front ofthis.
What would you call it inEnglish?
It's really weird when youlearn.
Like a little shop, okay, andin the beginning of it it's a
bunch of bones.
It's a bunch of bones Like huhweird.

(01:13:29):
Why are you saying bones?
Well, they got see.
See.
Juju is what voodoo came from.
In in nigeria it's called juju,so they practice juju.
I even talked to a king.
There was a cannibal in uh inmy town gave him a bible and he
was educated at Oxford.

(01:13:51):
He went to Oxford.
England drives a Mercedes andhe's a cannibal, still leads
people.
When he became king, he ate hisfather's brain.
He ate his father's heart toget the heart and the heart and
the intelligence of how to leadhis people.
So I'm in right by the palace,by the way.

(01:14:12):
I look at it and I see thisperson in the back, because it
was kind of dark.
I walk in and I go hey, I'dlike to give you this Growling
at me.
It was a little old ladygrowling at me, I mean like a
dog, not like a woman, trying tomake the noise Growling like a

(01:14:35):
dog.
And in Nigeria they see a lotof the guys guys I know that are
completely honest have seenpeople switch.
The witch doctors of the jujuswitch from a person to a
leopard or a panther.
They said I saw it right beforemy eyes.
It's really wild.
But anyways, this lady lookedlike a 100-year-old lady

(01:14:59):
growling at me, right, so Ileave, I go.
Okay, god bless you.
Jesus loves you.
The blood of Jesus Christ.
She's screaming.
So I leave the track by thebones and I go away.
Next week I read in thenewspaper where I was is where
they sold all the meat of humansand they were human bones.

(01:15:22):
They're cannibals in that partof the market.
I had no idea.
Another time I was in Boston andin Boston.
Not in Boston and in Boston.
You know, not in Nigeria.
I'm going around talking topeople.
I'm giving people tracks.
I go hey, god bless you.
He starts to mouth, his facechanges.

(01:15:45):
I hate you.
This is wild.
The sounds they make sound likeyou're in a Pentecostal church.
People speak it in tongues.
It's the same guttural Whoa,whoa.
This is wild.
And he wouldn't talk to meNothing.

(01:16:09):
That guy was possessed.
Then I was there, on the goodside of it, I was there
Christmas time in Boston in aplace called Haymarket Square,
at Faneuil Hall.
I was singing about the youth.
They're singing Christmascarols, inviting people to

(01:16:29):
church.
It's really like 30 miles awayfrom Boston.
So you know, people could becoming into Boston easily, be
near us, inviting people andjust going through my mind.
I was by myself, going throughmy mind.
People were spread out, werepassing out, inviting people to
church.
God bless you.

(01:16:50):
And I'm thinking in my head Lord, I don't know if we should
build a building.
We only pay $100 a month andthen we can have it for the rest
of our life as a church.
We're fitting 600 people inthere.
Why do I want to go in debt.
I'd rather put all our moneyinto mission work and getting

(01:17:10):
the word of God around the world.
I'm thinking about that.
Right, we stay in the ItalianSocial Club Right about then
these two guys they look likethey were six, seven perfect
haircuts, not robots, but justclean cut Marines or something

(01:17:31):
right, come up to me I go.
I go, hey, come up to me, I go.
Hey, sir, merry Christmas, godbless you.
We're already redeemed.
No, they said we are redeemed.
That's weird.
I've never had anybody answerme like that.
That's kind of cool.
And they look at me and saystay in the Italian social club,

(01:17:54):
right, and I go, because I wasjust thinking about it, right.
So I'm thinking, well, I didn'tthink about what I was just
thinking about, but I was justthinking about it.
So I turned and I swear it waslike maybe 10 seconds at the
most.
And I turned back and this wasa big open area at the most.
I turned back.
This is a big open area.
I mean it would take you atleast 30 seconds to walk to any

(01:18:18):
of the edges of it, to get onthe street or whatever.
It's a big.
What do they call those places?
Open air.
I used to know a lot ofvocabulary in English.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Open air market or something.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, but it was all the open area, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Yeah, no, but it was all open Okay.
No buildings, nothing, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Nothing.
So I turned back around quick,like what, what do they mean by
that?
And they're gone.
I'm thinking, wow, that's weird.
Was that just those angels thatsaid to me stay in the Italian
Social Club, and theydisappeared.
Is that what that was, look.
So, guess what?
We stayed in the Italian SocialClub and we're there to this

(01:18:59):
day.
That church is still there.
So I mean I've had thingshappen to me.
The Bible says in the book ofHebrews beware, pay attention,
because you will entertainangels unaware, like Abraham did
.
That was the Lord and that wasangels, like others, through the

(01:19:20):
Word of God, have done.
So I believe in that spiritualrealm.
I talk to people that, beforethey got saved, were involved in
what they call astralprojection.
They would come, they'd go tothis seance, take these drugs
and everything.
And I believe drugs.
Let me say this before I tellyou this story I believe drugs

(01:19:43):
open doors because in the bookof Revelation, the word for
sorcery sorcery, all the sorceryis going to deceive the world
is the word pharmakia.
They get the word pharmacy from, so they open up the
pharmaceuticals, open up doors.
So what was I talking about?

(01:20:03):
The this one blank.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
You were talking about astral projection, I think
.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Oh yeah, thank you, I get sidetracked.
On one Astral projection theysaid, mark, when we get out of
the body we look at it.
We could see our body, but youcould see all kinds of things in
the spiritual world.
You could see ugly, evillooking spirits, you could see

(01:20:30):
gargoyles.
You could see all kinds ofstuff.
But you could also see amongthe people.
You could see um, benevolent,like angels.
That wouldn't be evil.
So the spiritual realm was real.
How about?
How many times?
I know a pastor friend of mine.
I'll tell you what happened tome last year.

(01:20:51):
He had a near-death experience.
He left his body right he'slooking at seeing them walking
on him in an emergency and hedied.
They said he died for like sixminutes.
He went to see the Lord and theLord said basically and you
hear this a lot not done yet goback, because he wasn't dead.

(01:21:12):
He was dead, but he wasn't.
The Lord had something to do.
He came back and he said, mark,I did not want to come back.
I did not want to come back.
What happened to me last yearwhen they stopped my heart
during my operation was I wentthrough this veil.
It was like red, yellow andgreen.

(01:21:32):
It was like an this veil.
It was like red, yellow andgreen, but it was like an
electrical veil and it's justlike when I was on the other
side.
I didn't really see muchbecause I was just on the other
side of it, but it was sopeaceful, no pain.
I was just like, oh, I want tostay here.
And I got zapped back in.

(01:21:52):
What I found out was well, youwant to stay here.
And I got zapped back in.
What I found out was ithappened twice.
They stopped my heart twiceduring my heart operation Twice,
but like seconds, it wasn't along time, and so I personally
experienced that myself and Ieven told the surgical team

(01:22:13):
listen, if I don't wake up,don't worry about me, I'm going
to be with the Lord Jesus Christ, and I'm happy.
So in fact, I told them I was alittle groggy.
In fact, maybe break it, so Idon't wake up, okay, because I
don't really care.
There's nothing in this world.
Everybody I love is going to bethere with me one day.

(01:22:33):
So I was preaching to them asthey were putting me out and
that's what happened to me.
Wow, personally, I'm not makingit.
No, I didn't go to heaven, Ididn't talk to Jesus, nothing
like that.
But I did go through a veil andI did feel a little peaceful
Like po veil, and I did feel alittle peaceful Like poof and I
came right back.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Dang.
What a story.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
So yeah, there's a spiritual realm.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
Yeah, part of why I wanted to do this episode was
just to be able to talk tosomebody who's got a long run of
life, of ministry, of travel,of seeing experiences, of
finding evidence.
That just— I challenge peopleif they have doubts about the
Bible.
I'm like see if you can proveit wrong like that stress test.
I forgot one.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Yeah, this is cool.
In 1970, before the IronCurtain fell, we were involved
in smuggling Bibles intoCzechoslovakia and Yugoslavia
and West Germany, but mainlythose areas where the van that
had fake walls put Bibles in it.
So we had just come back fromYugoslavia not with Bibles but

(01:23:42):
with equipment for the printingpress, because they wanted to
start printing them inYugoslavia.
We're going into Czechoslovakia, which is now called Czech
Republic.
We're crossing bradislava,right.
No gps's.
Back then it was 80, it was not90, it was 86, 85.

(01:24:03):
And so we're going to find this, this family of a guy that
preaches on transworld Radio.
He escaped and he preaches inthe Czech language to Czech
Republic, czechoslovakia.
We're going to go see hisparents and give him some money
as well as say hi, and hisbrother and a couple people.

(01:24:25):
And so we crossed.
I mean, they search you underthe car.
The iron curtain was still in.
Where are you going?
We're going to this placecalled Piestani where they have
hot springs.
It's a health place, so theylet people go in there as
tourists and that's where hisparents live in Piestani.

(01:24:46):
So I thought I knew what I wasdoing.
Hour later I'm lost man.
I am found out later.
I'm like an hour and a halffrom the wrong direction right.
So we stopped the car, me andmy wife.
It's summertime, the windowsare down, we're praying Lord,
we're lost, we can't speak thislanguage.

(01:25:07):
We don't know what to do.
I don't know what we should do.
I don't even know if we'll findour way back.
Help us, lord, help us.
We hear faintly singing, so Ipull up.
I tell my wife, is it gettinglouder?
We got maybe an eighth of amile up and it was as loud as we

(01:25:27):
could hear it.
We parked the car, rolled upthe windows, walked down this
sidewalk.
In Europe, in these communistcountries, they make a lot of
houses that look, to say we'dsay, like townhouses, but they
were for communist control.
Anyways, we walked down alittle bit.
We could hear a singing alittle louder.

(01:25:48):
I stopped at the door that Ithought it was at.
I knock on the door that Ithought it was at.
I knock on the door, musicstops.
I go, because you're not reallysupposed to have at that time a
church.
We went to underground churchesin East Germany, near Berlin.
That was an incredible spiritof God.

(01:26:09):
Listen, that's another story.
Anyways, we knocked at the door.
No one comes.
Knock again A little harder.
A lady opens the door.
She's speaking in a language Idon't know Anything Christian,
jesus, jesus, you know, I knew alittle German, mein Vater, but

(01:26:32):
I'm in czech republic.
How would, how would they knowwhat german is right?
Jesus, jesus, appointing up,slams the door like well.
But when she did open I noticedsome pews in there, like it was
a church service.
So maybe 30 seconds later thisguy comes to him and he spoke a

(01:26:52):
little English, little German,really broken.
I go, you know in German alittle bit.
Fine, brother, my father, myPeter, jesus, jesus, he goes,
coming.
Couldn't shut the door now.
I had a Bible.
I figured I'd have a Bible,okay, and so he could come in.

(01:27:13):
He goes.
You got to be quiet because wewere singing too loud even, and
he's telling me he's in brokenEnglish.
I go, well, I'm looking for.
I gave the guy's name, he goes.
That's my brother.
I'm only here today becausethey are preacher.
They asked me to fill in forthe pastor, but it's an hour and

(01:27:35):
a half away and I came on a bus, spent the night.
That's my brother.
So we have a car, we'll takeyou back and he goes.
Wonderful, so he finished theservice.
We didn't understand anything.
We drove back and, on the wayhe tells me he goes, they told
me at the border you have tostay at this hotel and you have

(01:27:56):
to have your passport checked.
And da-da-da-da-da-da right, hetells me.
I'm the manager of the hotel,I'll stamp your passport and you
can stay with my parents thewhole time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Now, tell me that ain't God.
Wow, how could that?

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
happen Right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
No, that's just like one of vanilla stories for
missionaries you guys have.
You all have stuff like that.
Like yeah, I was just doingthis thing and all these weird
turns and it ends up being adivine appointment.
And then it's just, it seemslike par for the course with so
much of what you do to tell youto wrap it up, baby.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
This book is real.
This book is history of the.
With so much of what you do.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
To tell you to wrap it up, baby.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Yeah, yeah, this book is real.
This book is history of theworld.
Yeah, more specific than anyother history book on earth.
Yeah, it's been preserved byGod and anybody listening to
this would do well to getyourself a Bible and start.
I mean, there's a lot of Bibles.
I'll tell you this.
I don't know what Bible you useand it's irrelevant to me right

(01:29:00):
now, but I use the King JamesBible.
Why?
Because you're an old guy.
You like these and those.
Well, there's something prettyimportant about these and those
because it's the first, second,second person singular and the
third second person plural.
That that's why you have theseand those.
You can't say that in english.

(01:29:20):
You is you.
But besides that, themanuscripts, the people that
died, had the texas receptors intheir hands.
They died for that.
And guess what?
Guess what?
In the last days, the last book, english book, the last big
revival around the world waswith English language.
And again, where do you findperfect time?

(01:29:41):
Greenwich, england, zulu time.
Where do you find perfectlatitude?
Zero meridian, zero latitude,zero longitude right in England.
It seems the reason that Godsays I want that book that's
going to bring and it went forlike 200 years revival around
the world with that text.

(01:30:03):
Okay, that text, the TexasReceptors.
That's why I use it.
Because I studied Greek,studied Hebrew.
That's why I use it.
Now, am I telling you everyother book is bad?
No, I can show you how to getsaved in a Book of Mormon.
There's enough gospel in there,right?
But this is why I use the KingJames Bible.

(01:30:24):
They have a new King JamesBible.
They have an NASB.
They have many that are really95% that book, but that's why I
use that book.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
All right.
Well, thank you for that littlehistory lesson.
So let me I'll maybe wrap upwith this question or maybe play
devil's advocate just for fun.
But if, if you were to guesshow much of our current reality
is sanitized or curated, and ifyou could just snap your fingers
and make you know humanity haveone major set of blinders fall
off, what would you?
Could just snap your fingersand make humanity have one major
set of blinders fall off, whatwould you want people to see or

(01:30:56):
know?

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
That what I just said , that if you seek me you shall
find me.
When you search for me withyour whole heart and he's
talking about seeking him in theword of God and seeking him
from your heart you first haveto seek him in your heart before
you'll ever find the word ofGod and seeking him from your
heart.
You first have to seek him inyour heart before you'll ever
find the word of God, because heis the word of God, he is the
word of God, and so you have tohave the word of God.

(01:31:22):
The blindness, I would say, wasfor you to seek him.
You'll find him.
If you start asking the Lord,say Lord, I want you in my life,
I'm seeking you with all myheart, honestly, not like a
trick, honestly.
I need you and I want peace inmy life.
He's going to direct you to thatbook.
It's like he did me, and you'regoing to know.

(01:31:44):
Then you're going to have tomake a decision, because the
decision's yours.
It's a gift that you have toreceive to as many as received
him to them gave he power tobecome the sons of God.
And the power of God is in thatmessage of how Jesus died
according to the scriptures, wasburied according to the

(01:32:04):
scriptures and rose.
And the day that he rose fromthe dead, the day that he died
on the cross, the temple veilrent and the Jews recorded.
It happened in the Talmud, theJews.
It was 30 AD.
They said the temple rippedright down from top to bottom.

(01:32:30):
Why from top to bottom?
Because God ripped it fromheaven down to earth and gave us
access that we can come boldlyunto his throat through the
blood of Jesus Christ.
That's what I'd want them to beasking, and opening would be
their hearts and minds to God.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
To that book?
Yeah, minds to to god.
Yeah to that book?
Yeah, no, it's.
It's a accepting that there's,that the bible's true also
implies that you accept otherthings that, like evil, is real
and that there's a creator whohas the right to say what good
and evil is.
And and often in our culture wedon't like to talk about or
give lip service to the realitythat evil exists.

(01:33:14):
And if you can't accept that,then a lot of just what we see
just won't make sense.
But your story, or your,especially even our last episode
where we talked about what hasbeen done to you or it has been
done to people who try to getthe truth out it's hard to argue
that.
So any final thoughts on justwrapping up about One final

(01:33:38):
thought what's that?

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
It really helped me too.
In my books I give thedefinition of science being
observation and repeatability.
Okay, now, if you observesomething, somebody can repeat
it over and over again.
It goes from a hypothesis to atheory, to a law and the laws of

(01:33:59):
science.
God created gravity.
You can look at the atom.
Right, you got protons andelectrons, neutrons.
They should fly apart, but theydon't.
Why they're?
They're reverse polarity.
Why?
Because it says in Colossians,by him.
He holds all things togetherand the things that are not,

(01:34:23):
that we see, are made thingsfrom we don't see, from Adams.
If God took, took his presenceoff the universe, everything
would fly apart, becauseeverything is made of Adams.
He holds everything together,and that's science.
Okay, science proves theexistence of God.

(01:34:44):
Yeah, not disprove it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Right yeah, people that think science and faith are
mutually exclusive just haven'tthought as hard it's that
science is.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
It's just one other ology to study theology to study
the one that made it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Right, right, okay.
Well, mark, thank you forleaving a record of your life
experience.
Thank you for leaving a recordof walking a faith journey and
the breadcrumbs that you foundand all of us have limited
perspective on everything, butyou found so many things
throughout your travels and yourlife and your experiences.
And one thank you for standingup for truth, for talking about

(01:35:21):
it unafraid, and even the weirdthings about possession and
giants and all the other crazythings that, um, the Bible talks
about.
There's, there's history thereand there's something to learn
from that.
And so thank you for standingup for what you believe and tell
.
Any last thoughts on wherepeople can go to find you
support your mission, yourbook's coming out, anything else

(01:35:42):
you want people to know.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Well, you said you have all the links to my books.
I really encourage them to givemy books, because they're going
to learn a lot about practicingself-care as opposed to health
care.
We practice self-care and thebible talks about our temple
being our bodies, and then weshould keep them clean and not
defile them, because when wedefile them it's going to kill

(01:36:05):
you.
So so definitely clean out,learn how to detox the body.
Learn the foods to eat.
Learn how to detox the body.
Learn the foods to eat.
Learn how to get the toxins outof your body and the toxic
relationships stress.
Start with God first.
Yeah, you really need to getthat toxic relationship out of

(01:36:27):
your life.
If it's with God, believe me,Because he'll give you peace.
Like he said, my peace I giveunto you, not as the world
giveth unto you.
It's not like the world's peace.
It's peace that passes in thehospital room, having your chest
opened up in the jail, beingthrown in jail for nothing.

(01:36:48):
That peace is what you want.
That will make you happy andthat's the peace is what you
want.
That will make you.
That will make you happy andthat's the peace that he talked
about.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
I know All right.
Well, thank you so much for thetime today.
We'll look at those links inthe show notes.
And you guys make it a greatday.
Thank you, god bless you, youtoo.

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Mark Grenon: The Unseen Realm - A Missionary's Journey Reveals Biblical Realities

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mark Grenon: The Unseen Realm - A Missionary's Journey Reveals Biblical Realities