July 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Coaches on Messi: Genius, Legend, UncoachableThis deep dive offers various perspectives from prominent football coaches regarding Lionel Messi's status as the greatest player of all time (GOAT). Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho explicitly refer to Messi as a "genius" and the "best player in our generation," with Klopp calling him the "greatest footballer in my lifetime" and noting his exceptional longevity. While Carlo Ancelotti acknowledges Messi's extraordinary talent, he refrains from declaring him the undisputed GOAT, suggesting that different eras produce equally talented players. The discussions also highlight the challenges of comparing players across different eras due to advancements in sports science, tactics, and playing conditions, with some arguing that such comparisons are inherently flawed. Overall, we reveal a consensus among top coaches about Messi's unparalleled skill and influence, even if there's nuance regarding his all-time greatest title.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Have you ever watched a footballmatch and just seen a player do
something completely impossible?Makes you gasp, right?
Oh, absolutely. That moment where, you know, the
ball seems glued to their feet. Exactly.
And defenders just look well lost and suddenly there's a
goal. Out of nowhere, yeah.
Now imagine being one of the, you know, the top minds in
football really celebrated manager and you're trying to
(00:22):
coach that or maybe even just just contain it.
It's a it's a whole different challenge, isn't it?
So today we're not just looking at the highlight reels, we're
going deeper. We want to step inside the minds
of footballs. Well, most decorated managers.
To really try and understand thephenomenon that is Lionel Messi.
Exactly. It's it's quite a journey we're
(00:43):
taking today. Our deep dive is precisely that,
isn't it? We want to pull out the most
profound insights. From the absolute top tactical
brains in the sport. The very people who spent well
countless hours studying him, admiring him, coaching against
him. Even strategizing with him in
some cases, right? Will explore their unique takes
(01:05):
on what makes Messi just unparalleled.
From that subtle stuff the almost like invisible influence
he has. It just the sheer, you know,
uncoachable brilliance we hear about.
We're going to try and move systematically through what
they've observed, OK? Peeling back the layers.
Exactly. All right, let's let's unpack
this then. We're starting with something
(01:26):
that, like you said, often goes beyond the highlights, beyond
the stat sheets. It's what the legendary coach
Arsene Wenger called Messi's invisible influence.
Wenger, yeah, he offers this really compelling argument,
doesn't he? That Messi's real impact.
It often goes way beyond just the raw goal or assist numbers.
He focuses instead on his, well,completely irreplaceable
(01:49):
influence on how the whole team performs.
And what's really fascinating about Wenger's view is how he
draws this critical line. The distinction.
Yeah, distinction between just being, say, the best player in
the tournament, you know, someone who racks up great
individual stats. Right goals, assists, the usual
metrics. And being the most influential,
he argues those two things, they're not always the same.
(02:11):
Thing then with Messi. With Messi, it's that influence,
that quality that really defineshim.
That's what elevates the entire team.
That's a really profound observation.
He's the powerful example too, didn't he, from the Club World
Cup? He did, yeah.
Inner Miami. Right.
Messi, in that whole tournament,he only scored one goal.
Just think about that for a second.
(02:32):
One single goal it. Was a free kick wasn't it
against Porto? That's the one.
But here's the the crucial part that single moment of
brilliance. It secured their first and only
win in the group stage. Which was huge.
For them, and maybe even bigger,historically speaking, it marked
the very first time any MLS clubhad ever beaten a European team
(02:54):
in that tournament. So not a hat trick, not a load
of assists. Nope.
Just one decisive individual action, but it completely
changed the outcome for his team.
Changed their history in that comp really.
And to really hammer that point home, Wenger contrasted messy
situation with Michael Elise, who was playing for Bayern
Munich at the time. OK, Elise now.
(03:15):
Elise, He had much better traditional stats in those group
stages. Three goals, 2 assists I think.
Right. So on paper he looked more
dominant individually. Exactly by the conventional
metrics, yet Wenger pointed out that Bayern Munich they probably
would have qualified for the knockouts even without Elise's
goals and assists. OK.
(03:36):
But then he explicitly says, andthis is really the heart of his
argument. Inter Miami would not retire
without Messy. Wow, that's a stark contrast.
It really is. So when we talk about this
invisible influence, what does that actually look like on the
pitch? What does it mean practically?
Well, this analysis, it highlights Messi's role not
(03:57):
just, as, you know, a supremely talented individual.
But as something more fundamental.
Exactly. Yeah, Fundamental, indispensable
piece that just elevates the entire team regardless of his
own numbers on any given day. It speaks to his ability to be
like a catalyst. A singular catalyst, yeah.
Pulling his team towards achievements they just couldn't
get to without. It's a kind of leadership then
(04:17):
an on field presence you can't really measure with goals and
assists alone. Precisely.
Think about it. Maybe Messi doesn't even touch
the ball in a particular phase of play, right?
But just by his positioning or maybe deceptive little run he
makes, he pulls 2, maybe 3 defenders towards him.
Creating space elsewhere. Huge amounts of space for his
teammates. Suddenly there are gaps in the
(04:39):
defense. They can exploit his mere
presence. It shifts the whole gravity of
the game. Opponents have to dedicate so
many resources just to watching him.
Disproportionate resources, yeah, which inevitably opens up
chances somewhere else. That's how his influence just
radiates across the pitch. It's not just what he does with
the ball. Not at all.
(05:00):
That concept of invisible influence.
It's a thread you see weaving through so many coaches
observations about him. It shows his impact is felt in
ways that, well, a stat sheet just can't capture.
It's about destabilizing opponents, inspiring teammates.
Even without being directly involved in scoring the goal
sometimes. Exactly.
It's almost like a psychologicaledge he gives his team.
(05:20):
OK. So moving from that idea, that
invisible influence, let's let'stackle one of football's biggest
and, let's be honest, sometimes most exhausting questions.
I think I know where you're going.
Did you aid debate? The Go aid debate.
Yeah, Greatest of all time. The public often demands, you
know, a definitive answer. Who is it?
(05:42):
But coaches, particularly experienced ones like Carlo
Angelotti, they tend to approachit differently, don't they?
Much more nuanced, they seem to value excellence across
different eras, and they acknowledge it's basically
impossible to do a perfect comparison.
Apples to oranges kind of thing.It's fascinating to hear
Enchiladi's response when he's asked.
Point blank. You know is messy the best ever?
(06:04):
What does he say? He's very careful, he says.
I don't know if he is the best ever.
It's not so fair to say that because every era has very good
players. Fair enough.
And then he adds, messy is the best ever is never coming out of
my mouth. Wow, that's diplomatic but also
really firm, isn't it? Especially from someone who's
seen and coached literally everyone.
(06:24):
It is, and his reasoning is incredibly solid, especially
when you consider the sheer weight of his experience.
Right. He explains his position by
highlighting just how much diverse talent he's worked with
over the decades. He says.
You know, I have enjoyed so manygood players.
I train everyday. The blonde or winner?
But that's really just scratching the surface for
Ancelotti, isn't it? I mean the list of players.
(06:46):
Staggering. To really get the weight of his
perspective, you have to think about the breadth of legends
he's either managed or played alongside.
OK, lay it on us. Right.
Well, you're talking Blondor winners.
World Cup winners, European Cup legends Zedan, Cristiano
Ronaldo, The original Ronaldo, Kaka, Maldini, Shevchenko,
Ronaldinho. Wow.
(07:07):
OK, keep going. Robin Ribery, Edgar Davids, Del
Piero and Zoggy. See Dorf, Nesta, Varati, Zola,
Stoichkov, Kiesa, Crespo, Canavaro, Buffon.
This is insane. Ibrahimovic at PSG cuz he is
Sergio Ramos, Belady Maria Modridge, Cabri Alonzo Uzo,
Marcelo Cruz, Benzema. Still going.
(07:28):
Vander Thierry Henry at Juventus, Pierlo, Rivaldo,
Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Balak, Deco, Eck, Ashley Cole, Fernando
Torres, Levandowski, Manuel Neuer.
OK, OK, I get. That list is just unbelievable.
It's almost exhaustive, isn't it?
It just reinforces his unique position.
(07:50):
He can speak about greatness across generations because he's
lived it. He's not just talking theory.
No kidding. He's seen all those different
types of brilliance up close. Their strengths, Their
weaknesses. Exactly, which gives him a
perspective very very few othersin the sport could possibly
claim. And that ties right back into
the whole Goa debate itself, doesn't it?
Perfectly. We hear it all the time how
these discussions become, well, exhausting or even pointless
(08:14):
when you try comparing players from totally different time.
The arguments always come up about the conditions.
Right. Think about it.
Pele played on pitches that wereoften, you know, uneven, muddy.
Heavy leather balls that got even heavier when it rained.
Compared to today, players are gliding on these pristine
billiard table surfaces. With these scientifically
designed super light balls that give incredible control.
(08:35):
And then there's the tactics from basic rigid formations back
then to today's complex fluid systems.
Pressing traps. Intricate positional play.
It's a different game tactically.
Plus sports science nutrition recovery protocols.
Player protection to some tackles back then would be
instant red cards, maybe even long bands today.
(08:57):
Yeah, brutal stuff was more common and even just travel
modern conveniences versus what they had.
All these things were just absent in earlier era.
So how can you make a truly direct comparison?
It's incredibly. Difficult.
It's not impossible. So the big question is how do
you really weigh the achievements someone facing
different challenges, different resources?
Ancelotti's stance, that diplomatic but firm position, it
(09:20):
really highlights those challenges, doesn't it?
It does. He's advocating for appreciating
greatness within its own historical context.
Rather than forcing everyone into one, often flawed ranking.
Exactly. Let's celebrate the genius of
Pele, Maradona, Kroif, Messi, each in their own spectacular
way, savor the different flavorsof greatness.
(09:40):
Absolutely. And while Ancelotti, you know,
wisely keeps his absolute final judgment, maybe to himself,
there's another manager, someonewho knows Messi, maybe more
intimately than anyone. Oh, I know who you mean.
Who offers a much more fervent, almost like devotional,
declaration of his unmatched status.
Pep Guardiola. Of course.
(10:00):
And what's undeniably fascinating here is that
Guardiola, the coach under whom Messi arguably hit his absolute
peak at Barcelona. Right, that arrow was just
something else. He provides the most diffusive,
the most detailed praise imaginable.
He talks about Messi not just asa great player, but as well
unparalleled, complete, almost supernatural.
(10:22):
You can really hear the awe in his voice when he talks about
him. There's a reverence there, isn't
there? As if he's witnessing something
beyond the norm. Totally.
His statements are just powerfultestaments to his admiration, he
famously said. He's the best player I've ever
seen in my life because he's a competitor.
He's an animal. Calling him an animal there
isn't negative, is it? It's about that primal Dr., that
(10:42):
relentless will to win. Exactly, And he even joked once,
didn't he, about the Balandour? Oh yeah, the Balandour have to
be two sections, one from Messi and I have to look for the other
one. Imagine that, a level of
dominance so clear you need a separate category just for him.
And he also said the worst season of Messi is the best for
the rest of the players. Which just underlines it, even
(11:04):
an off year for Messi is still world class.
Better than most players peak. And he puts it in historical
context too, saying it will be difficult to understand a player
can appear and compete what he has done in the last 5070 years.
For Guardiola, Messi just transcends roles, doesn't he?
Completely, he says. Messi is the most complete
(11:25):
player I have ever seen in vision, in passes, in
dribblings, in competitiveness and in many things that is
difficult for other one. It's not just a collection of
skills, is it? It's how they all combine.
It's a synthesis, yeah, and he genuinely believes Messi's in a
league entirely of his own. He declared quite unequivocally.
(11:46):
Messi can sit alone in the table.
It's not allowed. Anyone else?
Wow, an exclusive club. Population 1.
Pretty much. That is an incredibly strong
statement, almost definitive. And he goes further describing
his versatility, right? Saying Messi is like. #9 #10 #11
#7 number six. Number 5 #4.
Just pause and think about that.That's basically every attacking
(12:06):
role and even deep central midfield.
Striker, creative midfielder, winger on either side, even
dropping deep to dictate play. He can be the finisher, the
creator, the controller, all of it.
And Guardiola follows that up with we never can say that is
unfair for that Leo Messi win the ball on doors with too much
good. Too much good.
I like that. And maybe his most absolute
(12:27):
statement, the best is messy. Messy is a part.
There's a finality to it. He also expresses real personal
gratitude, doesn't he? Oh, hugely, he says.
I'm happy that Messi is back. It's a privilege to be a
contemporary of this boy. It's something that can't be
repeated. And he makes that bold, direct
declaration. He's the best player of all
time. We can put him with Pele, but I
(12:48):
never saw a boy like him and I believe we won't see another for
a long time. So, given all that incredibly
fervent praise, what exactly is it about Messi that makes him so
unique in Cordial's eyes? Yeah, what are the specific
qualities he highlights? Well, Pep really dissects it.
He starts with Messi's off ball intelligence, his spatial
awareness, which is phenomenal. How does he describe that?
(13:11):
He marvels at Messi's ability tobasically create a map in his
eyes, in his brain. Yeah, of the entire pitch.
A map. Yeah, he observes, he's not
running, but he's always watching what happened.
After 5-10 minutes he have map in his eyes, in his brain to
know exactly what is the space and what is the panoramic.
So it's not just about athleticism, it's about like
(13:31):
cognitive processing, seeing thegame unfold.
An elite cognitive understanding.
Yeah, processing speed. That lets him see solutions
before anyone else even senses them.
Like he's playing chess but in real time, predicting moves
ahead without even needing to move himself sometimes.
That's a good way to put it. Then there's the technical side,
Guardiola says. His correct control, his pass is
(13:54):
always perfect. Technical perfection and tied to
that, the decision making. Flawless decision making.
It's about the understand the game when every situations take
the right decisions in the rightmoment and every time his
decision is correct. That combination, perfect
execution, perfect timing. That's lethal.
It's not just that he can make the right decision, it's that he
(14:15):
almost always seems to, even under immense pressure.
And that versatility we mentioned playing almost any
attacking or midfield role. From the number 9, the striker
right back to the number six or eight, the deep lying playmaker
dictating tempo. It just highlights his
adaptability in that incredible football.
Like you, he doesn't just adapt,he excels everywhere.
He ships his game based on what the team needs.
(14:37):
And Guardiola consistently talksabout Messi's unstoppable
nature, the sheer defensive challenge he poses.
What does he say about trying tostop him?
He says quite plainly it's impossible to control Leo during
90 minutes when he can run and he can be close to the box.
Always is unstockable. And this is coming from
(14:58):
Guardiola, a master tactician known for meticulous defensive
plans. Exactly.
He even adds with a bit of humor.
When he has the ball, he doesn'tknow what he's going to do.
Imagine. He has to know what he's going
to do. That's brilliant.
It's not an insult, is it? Not at all.
It's a profound compliment to Messi's spontaneous genius, his
ability to just improvise in ways that are completely
(15:23):
unpredictable for defenders. Makes him a nightmare to plan
against. Absolutely.
It's like he's so fluid, so intuitive, that even he might
not know the exact path until that split second it happens.
That must be terrifying for a defender.
You'd think so. And beyond the tactics,
Guardiola expresses huge personal gratitude for Messi's
impact. Not just on Barce's success.
Not just helping bring Barcelona.
(15:43):
Another level to bring Barcelonadominate the world during a
decade, but also directly on Guardiola's own career, he says.
Messi help me personally to be abetter manager and help me to go
to Munich and after to England. Wow, that's a huge admission.
And he cherishes the experience,the incredible amount of the
emotions and the feelings and the incredible actions to be in
(16:06):
front of the TV to watch him A. Really profound connection
there. Coach and player elevating each
other a once in a lifetime thing.
Absolutely. Guardiola's conviction is just
total. He describes a player who seems
to, well, defy the natural laws of football.
And that that profound impact, it leads us neatly to another
(16:26):
aspect of Messi's career that defies expectations, his
longevity. His ability to keep going at
such a high level, especially now at an age where most elite
players really start to decline.Exactly.
Speaking of defying expectations, let's bring in
Jurgen Klopp, another huge figure in modern football.
Klopp yeah, he highlights Messi's sustained high level
performance at, you know, an advanced stage is something
(16:49):
groundbreaking. Almost like an indicator for how
careers might evolve. Exactly for the whole landscape
of professional football careers.
And Klopp doesn't mince words either, does he?
His declaration. It's striking how clear he is.
The greatest footballer in my lifetime?
Lionel Messi. No hesitation there, just a firm
belief from one of the most respected, most intense managers
(17:12):
around. Coming from Klopp, known for his
high standards, his demanding style, that carries real weight.
And he doesn't just praise Messinow, he uses him as a benchmark
right for the future. Yeah, he emphasizes that the way
he plays football at this age should give us all a hint at how
long footballers can perform at the top level.
Like a lesson for everyone. Pretty much, he adds.
(17:35):
We shouldn't close the books tooearly suggesting Messi isn't
just an outlier, he's actively redefining the potential career
span for top athletes. Pushing the boundaries of what
we thought was possible for players in their mid to late 30s
it. Really challenges that old
conventional wisdom, doesn't it,That a player's prime is
basically over round 30? Definitely, and clap connects
this back to direct experience too.
(17:56):
Doesn't he recalling a specific match?
He does. Liverpool facing Messi despite
his team losing 3 nil in that leg, Klopp openly acknowledged
Messi's unstoppable quality. He mentioned a specific moment.
Yeah, a world class outstanding free kick that just summed up
Messi's brilliance. And what stands out is how Klopp
(18:16):
framed his own team's performance.
Right. He praised his team, saying they
play just football and cruciallydidn't treat him harshly or
whatever to try to get him out of the game.
Which just underlines the kind of natural, uncontainable genius
they were facing. Yeah, it wasn't about trying to
foul him or intimidate him out of the match.
It was trying to play pure football against this
(18:37):
exceptional, almost impossible talent and coming up short
because of his brilliance. That's a massive compliment,
especially from Klopp, whose teams are known for their
intensity, their pressing, theirphysicality.
It really is, and Klopp's personal reverence for Messi it
comes through in that famous little anecdote he tells.
The selfie story. The selfie story I have only one
selfie on my smartphone. That's with messy.
(19:00):
And the punchline? And Cristiano was in the room as
well, huh. That lighthearted comment just
hammers home the respect, doesn't it?
Placing messy above everyone, even with another all time
great. Literally right there.
It speaks volumes about the impact Messy has even on his
rivals and peers at the very highest level.
So this raises a big question though.
Is messy just a complete one offan anomaly, or is he part of a
(19:25):
wider trend in modern football? Well, the discussion around
club's comments, it definitely points to a growing list of
players performing incredibly well deep into their 30s.
We're seeing it more and more. Aren't.
We for sure you got Cristiano Ronaldo, Lovandowski, Luka
Mordrich, Kareem Benzema winningthe blonde door at 34.
The list goes on, right? Older players still dominating.
(19:45):
Yeah, other names mentioned are Robin Rabri, Chavi, David Silva,
Zlatan Zanetti, Toti Pierlo, Tiago Silva, Djico Cavani Lam,
Donnie Alves, Luis Suarez, Giroux.
It does suggest a significant shift, doesn't it?
Maybe a new era of extended peakperformance?
It feels like a fundamental change from maybe 1020 years
(20:07):
ago, when being over 30 often meant you were considered past
it. And this trend, it's not just
random chance, is it? There are reasons behind it.
Several key factors, yeah. First and foremost, players are
just looking after their bodies better.
How so? What does that involve?
Stricter diets, really personalized training plans with
advanced strength and conditioning.
A much more scientific approach to recovery.
(20:28):
Things like cryotherapy, massage, specific sleep
routines. All of that, and secondly,
they're adapting their playing style strategically as their
bodies change. Right, like Ronaldo devolving
from that explosive. Winger into a more central
clinical finisher, conserving energy for those decisive
moments in the box. Or Messy himself transitioning
(20:49):
from the constant dribbler. Into more of a deep lying
playmaker, dictating the game's rhythm with passing and vision
rather than just relentless bursts of speed.
Less running, more thinking maybe?
In a way, yeah. Plus, you can't ignore the huge
advances in sports science and nutrition medical care.
Better injury prevention, fasterrecovery.
All crucial enablers, allowing athletes to extend their careers
(21:11):
way beyond what used to be the norm.
But it's not guaranteed for everyone is.
It No, definitely not. It's worth noting that not all
top players achieve this kind oflongevity.
We've seen examples like Eden Hazard, Mrs. Ozil, Obama, Yang.
Hugely talented players who saw quite rapid declines around age
30. Exactly, which highlights that
(21:31):
while the support systems and knowledge are better than ever,
Messi's unique ability to sustain his peak performance
remains truly exceptional. So the take away is Messi is a
prime example of how modern football plus incredible talent
and discipline is extending prime years.
But it still takes a rare special individual to fully
capitalize on all that and maintain that level of sustained
(21:52):
excellence. The resources are there, but you
still need the magic ingredient.Right.
OK, so from Klopp, who celebrates Messi's enduring
quality, let's turn to someone who famously spent years trying
to build a tactical fortress against him, often with, well,
mixed results. The tactical battles.
Jose Mourinho. Jose Mourinho, a master
tactician, renowned for his defensive setups, his ability
(22:15):
to, as they say, cage opponents.And he provides this really
fascinating, almost paradoxical view on Messi, doesn't he?
So paradoxical. Well, on one hand, he's the
player Mourinho most wished he could have signed right, and on
the other, he's the ultimate opponent, the one he had to
spend sleepless nights figuring out how to somehow neutralize.
(22:38):
Let's start with the admiration side.
Marino's pretty open about wanting to have managed him.
Very candid. He refers to Messi
affectionately as the little guyand just states in our
generation he was the best. Clear enough, But then he adds
that phrase that caused a bit ofstir that Messi was not
coachable. Right, that definitely raised
eyebrows. What did he actually mean by
(22:59):
that? Because it sounds like
criticism, maybe? But he clarified it, didn't he?
It wasn't about Messi being defiant or hard to manage.
No, not at all. He meant Messi didn't need
traditional coaching in the sameway because, as Marino put it,
he knows everything, was born with everything.
And then, he adds, maybe he can teach you things.
That is the ultimate compliment from a coach like Mourinho,
(23:21):
isn't it? Suggesting the player is so
innate, so complete, he transcends instruction.
He could actually teach you. It's incredible.
A truly unique perspective, yeah, and definitely humbling
coming from a tactical genius like Jose.
And that perspective was absolutely forged in the heat of
battle, wasn't it? In direct.
Opposition. Oh, definitely.
Mourinho famously devised and implemented that cage strategy
(23:44):
specifically to try and counter Messi's devastating impact.
He explained the logic behind it, right?
The danger of leaving Messi any room at all.
Yeah, he put it starkly. When Messi has the ball 11
against one, you are dead. You are dead.
Very theatrical, but it capturesthe feeling, doesn't it?
The sheer terror he must have instilled in defenses.
The inevitability of it. So his tactical answer was to
(24:06):
avoid individual man marking at all costs.
Why not man Mark seems like the obvious first step.
Because Mourinho felt it was futile, he said.
That's why I never liked the individual man to man against.
Messy, messy, messy is a cage. You have to create a cage.
So what did the cage involve? He described how his inner Milan
team with disciplined guys like Zanetti, Cambiasso.
(24:27):
Right, that legendary inter side.
They would collectively track messy, he explained.
Everybody was responsible for any position that Messi could
go. So not one guy's job, but
everyone's. Exactly.
Denying him critical space by swarming him with multiple
players rather than hoping 1 defender could win a one-on-one
battle they were probably destined to lose.
(24:49):
It's like a zonal trap but hyperfocused on wherever Messi
drifted. Precisely.
Players constantly shifting, always trying to have multiple
bodies around him, accepting that maybe you leave other areas
slightly less covered. But deeming a necessary
sacrifice to contain the main threat.
The ultimate threat? It's almost a desperate
admission, isn't it, that even atactical master like Mourinho
(25:11):
had to basically RIP up his usual defensive playbook just
for one player? It's the ultimate sign of
respect, absolutely, and Marino consistently points to Messi's
huge influence on his teams, that transformative impact.
He had that quote comparing teams with and without Messi.
Yeah, Barcelona without Messi. I would say Liverpool favorite,
but Barcelona with Messi. Messi is Messi.
(25:33):
That stark contrast again, just his presence on the team sheet
changes everything. Turns a tough opponent into
potentially an insurmountable 1.And what's also interesting is
Marino's observation about Messi's constant improvement,
his progression. He faced him over many years
across different clubs, Chelsea,Inter, Real Madrid.
Exactly, and under different managers too.
(25:55):
And he saw this remarkable consistency progressively.
He was always better and better and better.
Always getting better. That's what Mourinho saw for me.
Genius is the word. It wasn't just about a great
peak. It was about this continuous
upward curve adapting, improvingyear after year.
Forcing managers like Mourinho to constantly rethink their
strategies against him. An ever evolving threat.
(26:18):
Mourinho also admired something else, didn't he?
Something about his attitude. Yeah, he expressed admiration
for Messi's willingness to sacrifice himself for the good
of the team. He cited an example.
The 2014 World Cup, where Messi played a bit deeper, maybe less
flashy, prioritizing the team's chance to win the tournament
over padding his own individual stats.
Showing a different side of his greatness.
(26:40):
Not just the individual magic, but the commitment to the
collective goal. Even if it meant a less
glamorous role, sometimes putting the team first, which
for a superstar of his magnitudeis pretty remarkable.
So putting Mourinho's insights together, born from that direct
conflict, those strategic attempts to stop him.
They just under score Messi's incredible skills, his
(27:02):
adaptability, and that innate genius that forced even the most
rigid tactical minds to bend their entire game plans.
He's a player who just fundamentally changes how you
have to approach a match. A phenomenon you can't just
reduce to simple tactics. And these insights from his
opponents, they really just reinforce that overall narrative
of Messi as well. An anomaly.
(27:23):
The player who transcends normalcoaching, normal strategy.
Which leads us to a broader consensus among the top figures
in the game. Right.
And that leads us perfectly intoour final section, because it's
not just individual anecdotes, is it?
There's a collective verdict emerging.
A consistent chorus of admiration from all sorts of top
coaches, football figures reinforcing Messi's status is
(27:44):
just peerless, transformative, solidifying his place in
history. What's the overall feeling among
the elite? To connect it to the bigger
picture, there's this overwhelming sentiment that
Messi is, well, a unique phenomenon out of this world.
Not just casual praise then. No, it feels deeper than that,
Like a genuine, almost bewildered recognition of
(28:07):
something truly extraordinary, Something they rarely, if ever,
see. They've seen great players,
sure, but Messi? He stands apart.
He's consistently called the most decisive player in the
world, especially in that attacking third.
Yeah, a player who can run foot.Not only one player, but many.
It's not just beating one guy off the dribble.
It's about disrupting the whole defensive structure.
(28:28):
Exactly. Forcing multiple defenders to
commit, which then creates spaceor chances for others.
And the recurring theme, as we've heard from Enchiladi and
others, is just how hard, if notimpossible, it is to compare
anyone else to him. We heard Guardiola's take.
Messi can sit alone in the table.
It's not allowed anyone else, right?
Which contrasts with other top players who, while obviously
(28:50):
brilliant, still rely more heavily on team dynamics on the
system. In a way, Messi seems to
transcend. He can just single handedly turn
games on their head. And there's that idea of his
evolution too, isn't there? How his game changed over time.
Yeah, that raises an important question about his progression.
Some coaches talk about his transformation from that raw
genius, the electrifying young winger slaloming past everyone.
(29:14):
Right, the early Barsa days. To becoming more of a sage
overtime. Someone who was collecting a lot
of teaching and passed from being a winger to being a
striker and a strategist striker.
Giving lessons of football in every role.
That's the idea. It wasn't just sustained
performance. It was continuous growth,
adaptation and increasing football intelligence that let
him refine his game as his body naturally changed.
(29:36):
More economical, maybe more precise, but still just as
devastating. Exactly, and it wasn't just for
a few peak seasons either. No, his longevity is key here.
Over what, 1214 years of top level act of play?
Coaches note his continuity and the permanent unbalancing effect
are just unmatched, even compared to other historical
(29:56):
legends. Maintaining that incredibly high
level of impact year after year,game after game, it defies the
usual career arc. That consistency in tilting the
scales for his team for such a long time, that's really what
sets him apart for many. And for those connected to
Argentine football, there's a different layer too, isn't
there? Oh, definitely.
Often a deep sense of gratitude,viewing Messi as a blessing who
(30:18):
arrived after the icon Diego Maradona.
Filling that huge void left by aplayer of that magnitude.
It's seen almost as a generational torch passing like
a divine gift to football, ensuring that lineage of unique
genius continued. And the GOAT statements, they
echo loudly here too, right? More coaches being explicit.
Yeah, Pep Guardiola, as we heard, with all due respect to
(30:40):
Pele and Diego Maradona, but Lionel Messi is the GOAT in my
opinion. He compared them to other
sporting icons. Like, I've never seen someone
like him as a coach. When you see him up close, do
you think of Tiger Woods? Oregon, Michael Jordan?
High praise and deed. And others agree.
Fabio Capella also puts him in that category among the geniuses
in football history, right alongside Pele and Maradona,
(31:02):
placing him firmly in that absolute top tier.
So when we pull all of this together, this collective
verdict, what's the final picture it paints?
Well, the testimony from these giants of the game, it paints
this comprehensive picture, doesn't it?
A player who doesn't just hit unprecedented stats.
But also has this unique intuitive grasp of the game.
Yeah, an unparalleled ability toinfluence outcomes even without
(31:25):
direct involvement, shifting thewhole dynamic of a match.
And maintaining that sustained excellence that forces even his
biggest rivals, his staunchest opponents, to just offer the
highest praise. He's not just a player, he's a
phenomenon, someone who makes you re evaluate what's even
possible on a football pitch. He makes the impossible look
routine. An incredible body of work.
(31:46):
A truly unique talent. Absolutely transformative.
Wow. What an incredible deep dive
that was into the minds of football's absolute finest and
all centering around on just oneplayer, Lionel Messi.
It's quite something, isn't it? We heard from Arson Wenger on
that profound, almost invisible influence he has going way
beyond the stat sheet, showing how his mere presence lifts the
(32:08):
whole team. And Carlo Ancelotti providing
that crucial nuance to the wholeJovi debate, highlighting the
difficulty, maybe impossibility,of comparing across eras while
still acknowledging Messi's supreme talent in his own time.
Then there was the, well, truly profusive praise from Pep
Guardiola, seeing Messi as not just unparalleled but almost
supernatural, describing that unique vision, the flawless
(32:31):
decisions, the pure, unpredictable genius.
And Jurgen Klopp marveling at his extraordinary longevity,
pointing out how Messi is basically redefining career
timelines for elite athletes, adapting his game brilliantly to
sustain excellence deep into his30s.
It's like a new frontier. And of course, Jose Mourinho,
the master practition giving us that fascinating paradox, the
(32:54):
player he most wanted to sign, but also the one he was called
uncoachable because he was just born with it all.
Detailing that tactical cage he had to build just to try and
contain him. A true testament to Messi's
unique unstoppable force. The consistent thread woven
through all these different insights, from pure admiration
to tactical desperation, it seems to be that Messi isn't
(33:16):
just another great player. No, he's a force that reshapes
the game itself, compelling eventhe most brilliant football
minds to rethink their understanding of the sport,
rethink what a single individualcan actually achieve.
So this overwhelming consensus from the sport's greatest
thinkers, it leaves us with a final question, doesn't it?
For you, listening to ponder. In a sport that feels
increasingly defined by systems,by data, by sheer athleticism,
(33:40):
what does Messi's unique, almostindescribable genius, That
individual artistry, that pure instinct?
What does it really teach us? About the enduring power of raw
talent, of intuitive understanding on the field.
Exactly. And maybe the biggest question
of all, will we ever see his light again?
Or is he truly a singular, unrepeatable phenomenon in the
history of this beautiful game?
Have you ever watched a footballmatch and just seen a player do
something completely impossible?Makes you gasp, right?
Oh, absolutely. That moment where, you know, the
ball seems glued to their feet. Exactly.
And defenders just look well lost and suddenly there's a
goal. Out of nowhere, yeah.
Now imagine being one of the, you know, the top minds in
football really celebrated manager and you're trying to
(00:22):
coach that or maybe even just just contain it.
It's a it's a whole different challenge, isn't it?
So today we're not just looking at the highlight reels, we're
going deeper. We want to step inside the minds
of footballs. Well, most decorated managers.
To really try and understand thephenomenon that is Lionel Messi.
Exactly. It's it's quite a journey we're
(00:43):
taking today. Our deep dive is precisely that,
isn't it? We want to pull out the most
profound insights. From the absolute top tactical
brains in the sport. The very people who spent well
countless hours studying him, admiring him, coaching against
him. Even strategizing with him in
some cases, right? Will explore their unique takes
(01:05):
on what makes Messi just unparalleled.
From that subtle stuff the almost like invisible influence
he has. It just the sheer, you know,
uncoachable brilliance we hear about.
We're going to try and move systematically through what
they've observed, OK? Peeling back the layers.
Exactly. All right, let's let's unpack
this then. We're starting with something
(01:26):
that, like you said, often goes beyond the highlights, beyond
the stat sheets. It's what the legendary coach
Arsene Wenger called Messi's invisible influence.
Wenger, yeah, he offers this really compelling argument,
doesn't he? That Messi's real impact.
It often goes way beyond just the raw goal or assist numbers.
He focuses instead on his, well,completely irreplaceable
(01:49):
influence on how the whole team performs.
And what's really fascinating about Wenger's view is how he
draws this critical line. The distinction.
Yeah, distinction between just being, say, the best player in
the tournament, you know, someone who racks up great
individual stats. Right goals, assists, the usual
metrics. And being the most influential,
he argues those two things, they're not always the same.
(02:11):
Thing then with Messi. With Messi, it's that influence,
that quality that really defineshim.
That's what elevates the entire team.
That's a really profound observation.
He's the powerful example too, didn't he, from the Club World
Cup? He did, yeah.
Inner Miami. Right.
Messi, in that whole tournament,he only scored one goal.
Just think about that for a second.
(02:32):
One single goal it. Was a free kick wasn't it
against Porto? That's the one.
But here's the the crucial part that single moment of
brilliance. It secured their first and only
win in the group stage. Which was huge.
For them, and maybe even bigger,historically speaking, it marked
the very first time any MLS clubhad ever beaten a European team
(02:54):
in that tournament. So not a hat trick, not a load
of assists. Nope.
Just one decisive individual action, but it completely
changed the outcome for his team.
Changed their history in that comp really.
And to really hammer that point home, Wenger contrasted messy
situation with Michael Elise, who was playing for Bayern
Munich at the time. OK, Elise now.
(03:15):
Elise, He had much better traditional stats in those group
stages. Three goals, 2 assists I think.
Right. So on paper he looked more
dominant individually. Exactly by the conventional
metrics, yet Wenger pointed out that Bayern Munich they probably
would have qualified for the knockouts even without Elise's
goals and assists. OK.
(03:36):
But then he explicitly says, andthis is really the heart of his
argument. Inter Miami would not retire
without Messy. Wow, that's a stark contrast.
It really is. So when we talk about this
invisible influence, what does that actually look like on the
pitch? What does it mean practically?
Well, this analysis, it highlights Messi's role not
(03:57):
just, as, you know, a supremely talented individual.
But as something more fundamental.
Exactly. Yeah, Fundamental, indispensable
piece that just elevates the entire team regardless of his
own numbers on any given day. It speaks to his ability to be
like a catalyst. A singular catalyst, yeah.
Pulling his team towards achievements they just couldn't
get to without. It's a kind of leadership then
(04:17):
an on field presence you can't really measure with goals and
assists alone. Precisely.
Think about it. Maybe Messi doesn't even touch
the ball in a particular phase of play, right?
But just by his positioning or maybe deceptive little run he
makes, he pulls 2, maybe 3 defenders towards him.
Creating space elsewhere. Huge amounts of space for his
teammates. Suddenly there are gaps in the
(04:39):
defense. They can exploit his mere
presence. It shifts the whole gravity of
the game. Opponents have to dedicate so
many resources just to watching him.
Disproportionate resources, yeah, which inevitably opens up
chances somewhere else. That's how his influence just
radiates across the pitch. It's not just what he does with
the ball. Not at all.
(05:00):
That concept of invisible influence.
It's a thread you see weaving through so many coaches
observations about him. It shows his impact is felt in
ways that, well, a stat sheet just can't capture.
It's about destabilizing opponents, inspiring teammates.
Even without being directly involved in scoring the goal
sometimes. Exactly.
It's almost like a psychologicaledge he gives his team.
(05:20):
OK. So moving from that idea, that
invisible influence, let's let'stackle one of football's biggest
and, let's be honest, sometimes most exhausting questions.
I think I know where you're going.
Did you aid debate? The Go aid debate.
Yeah, Greatest of all time. The public often demands, you
know, a definitive answer. Who is it?
(05:42):
But coaches, particularly experienced ones like Carlo
Angelotti, they tend to approachit differently, don't they?
Much more nuanced, they seem to value excellence across
different eras, and they acknowledge it's basically
impossible to do a perfect comparison.
Apples to oranges kind of thing.It's fascinating to hear
Enchiladi's response when he's asked.
Point blank. You know is messy the best ever?
(06:04):
What does he say? He's very careful, he says.
I don't know if he is the best ever.
It's not so fair to say that because every era has very good
players. Fair enough.
And then he adds, messy is the best ever is never coming out of
my mouth. Wow, that's diplomatic but also
really firm, isn't it? Especially from someone who's
seen and coached literally everyone.
(06:24):
It is, and his reasoning is incredibly solid, especially
when you consider the sheer weight of his experience.
Right. He explains his position by
highlighting just how much diverse talent he's worked with
over the decades. He says.
You know, I have enjoyed so manygood players.
I train everyday. The blonde or winner?
But that's really just scratching the surface for
Ancelotti, isn't it? I mean the list of players.
(06:46):
Staggering. To really get the weight of his
perspective, you have to think about the breadth of legends
he's either managed or played alongside.
OK, lay it on us. Right.
Well, you're talking Blondor winners.
World Cup winners, European Cup legends Zedan, Cristiano
Ronaldo, The original Ronaldo, Kaka, Maldini, Shevchenko,
Ronaldinho. Wow.
(07:07):
OK, keep going. Robin Ribery, Edgar Davids, Del
Piero and Zoggy. See Dorf, Nesta, Varati, Zola,
Stoichkov, Kiesa, Crespo, Canavaro, Buffon.
This is insane. Ibrahimovic at PSG cuz he is
Sergio Ramos, Belady Maria Modridge, Cabri Alonzo Uzo,
Marcelo Cruz, Benzema. Still going.
(07:28):
Vander Thierry Henry at Juventus, Pierlo, Rivaldo,
Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Balak, Deco, Eck, Ashley Cole, Fernando
Torres, Levandowski, Manuel Neuer.
OK, OK, I get. That list is just unbelievable.
It's almost exhaustive, isn't it?
It just reinforces his unique position.
(07:50):
He can speak about greatness across generations because he's
lived it. He's not just talking theory.
No kidding. He's seen all those different
types of brilliance up close. Their strengths, Their
weaknesses. Exactly, which gives him a
perspective very very few othersin the sport could possibly
claim. And that ties right back into
the whole Goa debate itself, doesn't it?
Perfectly. We hear it all the time how
these discussions become, well, exhausting or even pointless
(08:14):
when you try comparing players from totally different time.
The arguments always come up about the conditions.
Right. Think about it.
Pele played on pitches that wereoften, you know, uneven, muddy.
Heavy leather balls that got even heavier when it rained.
Compared to today, players are gliding on these pristine
billiard table surfaces. With these scientifically
designed super light balls that give incredible control.
(08:35):
And then there's the tactics from basic rigid formations back
then to today's complex fluid systems.
Pressing traps. Intricate positional play.
It's a different game tactically.
Plus sports science nutrition recovery protocols.
Player protection to some tackles back then would be
instant red cards, maybe even long bands today.
(08:57):
Yeah, brutal stuff was more common and even just travel
modern conveniences versus what they had.
All these things were just absent in earlier era.
So how can you make a truly direct comparison?
It's incredibly. Difficult.
It's not impossible. So the big question is how do
you really weigh the achievements someone facing
different challenges, different resources?
Ancelotti's stance, that diplomatic but firm position, it
(09:20):
really highlights those challenges, doesn't it?
It does. He's advocating for appreciating
greatness within its own historical context.
Rather than forcing everyone into one, often flawed ranking.
Exactly. Let's celebrate the genius of
Pele, Maradona, Kroif, Messi, each in their own spectacular
way, savor the different flavorsof greatness.
(09:40):
Absolutely. And while Ancelotti, you know,
wisely keeps his absolute final judgment, maybe to himself,
there's another manager, someonewho knows Messi, maybe more
intimately than anyone. Oh, I know who you mean.
Who offers a much more fervent, almost like devotional,
declaration of his unmatched status.
Pep Guardiola. Of course.
(10:00):
And what's undeniably fascinating here is that
Guardiola, the coach under whom Messi arguably hit his absolute
peak at Barcelona. Right, that arrow was just
something else. He provides the most diffusive,
the most detailed praise imaginable.
He talks about Messi not just asa great player, but as well
unparalleled, complete, almost supernatural.
(10:22):
You can really hear the awe in his voice when he talks about
him. There's a reverence there, isn't
there? As if he's witnessing something
beyond the norm. Totally.
His statements are just powerfultestaments to his admiration, he
famously said. He's the best player I've ever
seen in my life because he's a competitor.
He's an animal. Calling him an animal there
isn't negative, is it? It's about that primal Dr., that
(10:42):
relentless will to win. Exactly, And he even joked once,
didn't he, about the Balandour? Oh yeah, the Balandour have to
be two sections, one from Messi and I have to look for the other
one. Imagine that, a level of
dominance so clear you need a separate category just for him.
And he also said the worst season of Messi is the best for
the rest of the players. Which just underlines it, even
(11:04):
an off year for Messi is still world class.
Better than most players peak. And he puts it in historical
context too, saying it will be difficult to understand a player
can appear and compete what he has done in the last 5070 years.
For Guardiola, Messi just transcends roles, doesn't he?
Completely, he says. Messi is the most complete
(11:25):
player I have ever seen in vision, in passes, in
dribblings, in competitiveness and in many things that is
difficult for other one. It's not just a collection of
skills, is it? It's how they all combine.
It's a synthesis, yeah, and he genuinely believes Messi's in a
league entirely of his own. He declared quite unequivocally.
(11:46):
Messi can sit alone in the table.
It's not allowed. Anyone else?
Wow, an exclusive club. Population 1.
Pretty much. That is an incredibly strong
statement, almost definitive. And he goes further describing
his versatility, right? Saying Messi is like. #9 #10 #11
#7 number six. Number 5 #4.
Just pause and think about that.That's basically every attacking
(12:06):
role and even deep central midfield.
Striker, creative midfielder, winger on either side, even
dropping deep to dictate play. He can be the finisher, the
creator, the controller, all of it.
And Guardiola follows that up with we never can say that is
unfair for that Leo Messi win the ball on doors with too much
good. Too much good.
I like that. And maybe his most absolute
(12:27):
statement, the best is messy. Messy is a part.
There's a finality to it. He also expresses real personal
gratitude, doesn't he? Oh, hugely, he says.
I'm happy that Messi is back. It's a privilege to be a
contemporary of this boy. It's something that can't be
repeated. And he makes that bold, direct
declaration. He's the best player of all
time. We can put him with Pele, but I
(12:48):
never saw a boy like him and I believe we won't see another for
a long time. So, given all that incredibly
fervent praise, what exactly is it about Messi that makes him so
unique in Cordial's eyes? Yeah, what are the specific
qualities he highlights? Well, Pep really dissects it.
He starts with Messi's off ball intelligence, his spatial
awareness, which is phenomenal. How does he describe that?
(13:11):
He marvels at Messi's ability tobasically create a map in his
eyes, in his brain. Yeah, of the entire pitch.
A map. Yeah, he observes, he's not
running, but he's always watching what happened.
After 5-10 minutes he have map in his eyes, in his brain to
know exactly what is the space and what is the panoramic.
So it's not just about athleticism, it's about like
(13:31):
cognitive processing, seeing thegame unfold.
An elite cognitive understanding.
Yeah, processing speed. That lets him see solutions
before anyone else even senses them.
Like he's playing chess but in real time, predicting moves
ahead without even needing to move himself sometimes.
That's a good way to put it. Then there's the technical side,
Guardiola says. His correct control, his pass is
(13:54):
always perfect. Technical perfection and tied to
that, the decision making. Flawless decision making.
It's about the understand the game when every situations take
the right decisions in the rightmoment and every time his
decision is correct. That combination, perfect
execution, perfect timing. That's lethal.
It's not just that he can make the right decision, it's that he
(14:15):
almost always seems to, even under immense pressure.
And that versatility we mentioned playing almost any
attacking or midfield role. From the number 9, the striker
right back to the number six or eight, the deep lying playmaker
dictating tempo. It just highlights his
adaptability in that incredible football.
Like you, he doesn't just adapt,he excels everywhere.
He ships his game based on what the team needs.
(14:37):
And Guardiola consistently talksabout Messi's unstoppable
nature, the sheer defensive challenge he poses.
What does he say about trying tostop him?
He says quite plainly it's impossible to control Leo during
90 minutes when he can run and he can be close to the box.
Always is unstockable. And this is coming from
(14:58):
Guardiola, a master tactician known for meticulous defensive
plans. Exactly.
He even adds with a bit of humor.
When he has the ball, he doesn'tknow what he's going to do.
Imagine. He has to know what he's going
to do. That's brilliant.
It's not an insult, is it? Not at all.
It's a profound compliment to Messi's spontaneous genius, his
ability to just improvise in ways that are completely
(15:23):
unpredictable for defenders. Makes him a nightmare to plan
against. Absolutely.
It's like he's so fluid, so intuitive, that even he might
not know the exact path until that split second it happens.
That must be terrifying for a defender.
You'd think so. And beyond the tactics,
Guardiola expresses huge personal gratitude for Messi's
impact. Not just on Barce's success.
Not just helping bring Barcelona.
(15:43):
Another level to bring Barcelonadominate the world during a
decade, but also directly on Guardiola's own career, he says.
Messi help me personally to be abetter manager and help me to go
to Munich and after to England. Wow, that's a huge admission.
And he cherishes the experience,the incredible amount of the
emotions and the feelings and the incredible actions to be in
(16:06):
front of the TV to watch him A. Really profound connection
there. Coach and player elevating each
other a once in a lifetime thing.
Absolutely. Guardiola's conviction is just
total. He describes a player who seems
to, well, defy the natural laws of football.
And that that profound impact, it leads us neatly to another
(16:26):
aspect of Messi's career that defies expectations, his
longevity. His ability to keep going at
such a high level, especially now at an age where most elite
players really start to decline.Exactly.
Speaking of defying expectations, let's bring in
Jurgen Klopp, another huge figure in modern football.
Klopp yeah, he highlights Messi's sustained high level
performance at, you know, an advanced stage is something
(16:49):
groundbreaking. Almost like an indicator for how
careers might evolve. Exactly for the whole landscape
of professional football careers.
And Klopp doesn't mince words either, does he?
His declaration. It's striking how clear he is.
The greatest footballer in my lifetime?
Lionel Messi. No hesitation there, just a firm
belief from one of the most respected, most intense managers
(17:12):
around. Coming from Klopp, known for his
high standards, his demanding style, that carries real weight.
And he doesn't just praise Messinow, he uses him as a benchmark
right for the future. Yeah, he emphasizes that the way
he plays football at this age should give us all a hint at how
long footballers can perform at the top level.
Like a lesson for everyone. Pretty much, he adds.
(17:35):
We shouldn't close the books tooearly suggesting Messi isn't
just an outlier, he's actively redefining the potential career
span for top athletes. Pushing the boundaries of what
we thought was possible for players in their mid to late 30s
it. Really challenges that old
conventional wisdom, doesn't it,That a player's prime is
basically over round 30? Definitely, and clap connects
this back to direct experience too.
(17:56):
Doesn't he recalling a specific match?
He does. Liverpool facing Messi despite
his team losing 3 nil in that leg, Klopp openly acknowledged
Messi's unstoppable quality. He mentioned a specific moment.
Yeah, a world class outstanding free kick that just summed up
Messi's brilliance. And what stands out is how Klopp
(18:16):
framed his own team's performance.
Right. He praised his team, saying they
play just football and cruciallydidn't treat him harshly or
whatever to try to get him out of the game.
Which just underlines the kind of natural, uncontainable genius
they were facing. Yeah, it wasn't about trying to
foul him or intimidate him out of the match.
It was trying to play pure football against this
(18:37):
exceptional, almost impossible talent and coming up short
because of his brilliance. That's a massive compliment,
especially from Klopp, whose teams are known for their
intensity, their pressing, theirphysicality.
It really is, and Klopp's personal reverence for Messi it
comes through in that famous little anecdote he tells.
The selfie story. The selfie story I have only one
selfie on my smartphone. That's with messy.
(19:00):
And the punchline? And Cristiano was in the room as
well, huh. That lighthearted comment just
hammers home the respect, doesn't it?
Placing messy above everyone, even with another all time
great. Literally right there.
It speaks volumes about the impact Messy has even on his
rivals and peers at the very highest level.
So this raises a big question though.
Is messy just a complete one offan anomaly, or is he part of a
(19:25):
wider trend in modern football? Well, the discussion around
club's comments, it definitely points to a growing list of
players performing incredibly well deep into their 30s.
We're seeing it more and more. Aren't.
We for sure you got Cristiano Ronaldo, Lovandowski, Luka
Mordrich, Kareem Benzema winningthe blonde door at 34.
The list goes on, right? Older players still dominating.
(19:45):
Yeah, other names mentioned are Robin Rabri, Chavi, David Silva,
Zlatan Zanetti, Toti Pierlo, Tiago Silva, Djico Cavani Lam,
Donnie Alves, Luis Suarez, Giroux.
It does suggest a significant shift, doesn't it?
Maybe a new era of extended peakperformance?
It feels like a fundamental change from maybe 1020 years
(20:07):
ago, when being over 30 often meant you were considered past
it. And this trend, it's not just
random chance, is it? There are reasons behind it.
Several key factors, yeah. First and foremost, players are
just looking after their bodies better.
How so? What does that involve?
Stricter diets, really personalized training plans with
advanced strength and conditioning.
A much more scientific approach to recovery.
(20:28):
Things like cryotherapy, massage, specific sleep
routines. All of that, and secondly,
they're adapting their playing style strategically as their
bodies change. Right, like Ronaldo devolving
from that explosive. Winger into a more central
clinical finisher, conserving energy for those decisive
moments in the box. Or Messy himself transitioning
(20:49):
from the constant dribbler. Into more of a deep lying
playmaker, dictating the game's rhythm with passing and vision
rather than just relentless bursts of speed.
Less running, more thinking maybe?
In a way, yeah. Plus, you can't ignore the huge
advances in sports science and nutrition medical care.
Better injury prevention, fasterrecovery.
All crucial enablers, allowing athletes to extend their careers
(21:11):
way beyond what used to be the norm.
But it's not guaranteed for everyone is.
It No, definitely not. It's worth noting that not all
top players achieve this kind oflongevity.
We've seen examples like Eden Hazard, Mrs. Ozil, Obama, Yang.
Hugely talented players who saw quite rapid declines around age
30. Exactly, which highlights that
(21:31):
while the support systems and knowledge are better than ever,
Messi's unique ability to sustain his peak performance
remains truly exceptional. So the take away is Messi is a
prime example of how modern football plus incredible talent
and discipline is extending prime years.
But it still takes a rare special individual to fully
capitalize on all that and maintain that level of sustained
(21:52):
excellence. The resources are there, but you
still need the magic ingredient.Right.
OK, so from Klopp, who celebrates Messi's enduring
quality, let's turn to someone who famously spent years trying
to build a tactical fortress against him, often with, well,
mixed results. The tactical battles.
Jose Mourinho. Jose Mourinho, a master
tactician, renowned for his defensive setups, his ability
(22:15):
to, as they say, cage opponents.And he provides this really
fascinating, almost paradoxical view on Messi, doesn't he?
So paradoxical. Well, on one hand, he's the
player Mourinho most wished he could have signed right, and on
the other, he's the ultimate opponent, the one he had to
spend sleepless nights figuring out how to somehow neutralize.
(22:38):
Let's start with the admiration side.
Marino's pretty open about wanting to have managed him.
Very candid. He refers to Messi
affectionately as the little guyand just states in our
generation he was the best. Clear enough, But then he adds
that phrase that caused a bit ofstir that Messi was not
coachable. Right, that definitely raised
eyebrows. What did he actually mean by
(22:59):
that? Because it sounds like
criticism, maybe? But he clarified it, didn't he?
It wasn't about Messi being defiant or hard to manage.
No, not at all. He meant Messi didn't need
traditional coaching in the sameway because, as Marino put it,
he knows everything, was born with everything.
And then, he adds, maybe he can teach you things.
That is the ultimate compliment from a coach like Mourinho,
(23:21):
isn't it? Suggesting the player is so
innate, so complete, he transcends instruction.
He could actually teach you. It's incredible.
A truly unique perspective, yeah, and definitely humbling
coming from a tactical genius like Jose.
And that perspective was absolutely forged in the heat of
battle, wasn't it? In direct.
Opposition. Oh, definitely.
Mourinho famously devised and implemented that cage strategy
(23:44):
specifically to try and counter Messi's devastating impact.
He explained the logic behind it, right?
The danger of leaving Messi any room at all.
Yeah, he put it starkly. When Messi has the ball 11
against one, you are dead. You are dead.
Very theatrical, but it capturesthe feeling, doesn't it?
The sheer terror he must have instilled in defenses.
The inevitability of it. So his tactical answer was to
(24:06):
avoid individual man marking at all costs.
Why not man Mark seems like the obvious first step.
Because Mourinho felt it was futile, he said.
That's why I never liked the individual man to man against.
Messy, messy, messy is a cage. You have to create a cage.
So what did the cage involve? He described how his inner Milan
team with disciplined guys like Zanetti, Cambiasso.
(24:27):
Right, that legendary inter side.
They would collectively track messy, he explained.
Everybody was responsible for any position that Messi could
go. So not one guy's job, but
everyone's. Exactly.
Denying him critical space by swarming him with multiple
players rather than hoping 1 defender could win a one-on-one
battle they were probably destined to lose.
(24:49):
It's like a zonal trap but hyperfocused on wherever Messi
drifted. Precisely.
Players constantly shifting, always trying to have multiple
bodies around him, accepting that maybe you leave other areas
slightly less covered. But deeming a necessary
sacrifice to contain the main threat.
The ultimate threat? It's almost a desperate
admission, isn't it, that even atactical master like Mourinho
(25:11):
had to basically RIP up his usual defensive playbook just
for one player? It's the ultimate sign of
respect, absolutely, and Marino consistently points to Messi's
huge influence on his teams, that transformative impact.
He had that quote comparing teams with and without Messi.
Yeah, Barcelona without Messi. I would say Liverpool favorite,
but Barcelona with Messi. Messi is Messi.
(25:33):
That stark contrast again, just his presence on the team sheet
changes everything. Turns a tough opponent into
potentially an insurmountable 1.And what's also interesting is
Marino's observation about Messi's constant improvement,
his progression. He faced him over many years
across different clubs, Chelsea,Inter, Real Madrid.
Exactly, and under different managers too.
(25:55):
And he saw this remarkable consistency progressively.
He was always better and better and better.
Always getting better. That's what Mourinho saw for me.
Genius is the word. It wasn't just about a great
peak. It was about this continuous
upward curve adapting, improvingyear after year.
Forcing managers like Mourinho to constantly rethink their
strategies against him. An ever evolving threat.
(26:18):
Mourinho also admired something else, didn't he?
Something about his attitude. Yeah, he expressed admiration
for Messi's willingness to sacrifice himself for the good
of the team. He cited an example.
The 2014 World Cup, where Messi played a bit deeper, maybe less
flashy, prioritizing the team's chance to win the tournament
over padding his own individual stats.
Showing a different side of his greatness.
(26:40):
Not just the individual magic, but the commitment to the
collective goal. Even if it meant a less
glamorous role, sometimes putting the team first, which
for a superstar of his magnitudeis pretty remarkable.
So putting Mourinho's insights together, born from that direct
conflict, those strategic attempts to stop him.
They just under score Messi's incredible skills, his
(27:02):
adaptability, and that innate genius that forced even the most
rigid tactical minds to bend their entire game plans.
He's a player who just fundamentally changes how you
have to approach a match. A phenomenon you can't just
reduce to simple tactics. And these insights from his
opponents, they really just reinforce that overall narrative
of Messi as well. An anomaly.
(27:23):
The player who transcends normalcoaching, normal strategy.
Which leads us to a broader consensus among the top figures
in the game. Right.
And that leads us perfectly intoour final section, because it's
not just individual anecdotes, is it?
There's a collective verdict emerging.
A consistent chorus of admiration from all sorts of top
coaches, football figures reinforcing Messi's status is
(27:44):
just peerless, transformative, solidifying his place in
history. What's the overall feeling among
the elite? To connect it to the bigger
picture, there's this overwhelming sentiment that
Messi is, well, a unique phenomenon out of this world.
Not just casual praise then. No, it feels deeper than that,
Like a genuine, almost bewildered recognition of
(28:07):
something truly extraordinary, Something they rarely, if ever,
see. They've seen great players,
sure, but Messi? He stands apart.
He's consistently called the most decisive player in the
world, especially in that attacking third.
Yeah, a player who can run foot.Not only one player, but many.
It's not just beating one guy off the dribble.
It's about disrupting the whole defensive structure.
(28:28):
Exactly. Forcing multiple defenders to
commit, which then creates spaceor chances for others.
And the recurring theme, as we've heard from Enchiladi and
others, is just how hard, if notimpossible, it is to compare
anyone else to him. We heard Guardiola's take.
Messi can sit alone in the table.
It's not allowed anyone else, right?
Which contrasts with other top players who, while obviously
(28:50):
brilliant, still rely more heavily on team dynamics on the
system. In a way, Messi seems to
transcend. He can just single handedly turn
games on their head. And there's that idea of his
evolution too, isn't there? How his game changed over time.
Yeah, that raises an important question about his progression.
Some coaches talk about his transformation from that raw
genius, the electrifying young winger slaloming past everyone.
(29:14):
Right, the early Barsa days. To becoming more of a sage
overtime. Someone who was collecting a lot
of teaching and passed from being a winger to being a
striker and a strategist striker.
Giving lessons of football in every role.
That's the idea. It wasn't just sustained
performance. It was continuous growth,
adaptation and increasing football intelligence that let
him refine his game as his body naturally changed.
(29:36):
More economical, maybe more precise, but still just as
devastating. Exactly, and it wasn't just for
a few peak seasons either. No, his longevity is key here.
Over what, 1214 years of top level act of play?
Coaches note his continuity and the permanent unbalancing effect
are just unmatched, even compared to other historical
(29:56):
legends. Maintaining that incredibly high
level of impact year after year,game after game, it defies the
usual career arc. That consistency in tilting the
scales for his team for such a long time, that's really what
sets him apart for many. And for those connected to
Argentine football, there's a different layer too, isn't
there? Oh, definitely.
Often a deep sense of gratitude,viewing Messi as a blessing who
(30:18):
arrived after the icon Diego Maradona.
Filling that huge void left by aplayer of that magnitude.
It's seen almost as a generational torch passing like
a divine gift to football, ensuring that lineage of unique
genius continued. And the GOAT statements, they
echo loudly here too, right? More coaches being explicit.
Yeah, Pep Guardiola, as we heard, with all due respect to
(30:40):
Pele and Diego Maradona, but Lionel Messi is the GOAT in my
opinion. He compared them to other
sporting icons. Like, I've never seen someone
like him as a coach. When you see him up close, do
you think of Tiger Woods? Oregon, Michael Jordan?
High praise and deed. And others agree.
Fabio Capella also puts him in that category among the geniuses
in football history, right alongside Pele and Maradona,
(31:02):
placing him firmly in that absolute top tier.
So when we pull all of this together, this collective
verdict, what's the final picture it paints?
Well, the testimony from these giants of the game, it paints
this comprehensive picture, doesn't it?
A player who doesn't just hit unprecedented stats.
But also has this unique intuitive grasp of the game.
Yeah, an unparalleled ability toinfluence outcomes even without
(31:25):
direct involvement, shifting thewhole dynamic of a match.
And maintaining that sustained excellence that forces even his
biggest rivals, his staunchest opponents, to just offer the
highest praise. He's not just a player, he's a
phenomenon, someone who makes you re evaluate what's even
possible on a football pitch. He makes the impossible look
routine. An incredible body of work.
(31:46):
A truly unique talent. Absolutely transformative.
Wow. What an incredible deep dive
that was into the minds of football's absolute finest and
all centering around on just oneplayer, Lionel Messi.
It's quite something, isn't it? We heard from Arson Wenger on
that profound, almost invisible influence he has going way
beyond the stat sheet, showing how his mere presence lifts the
(32:08):
whole team. And Carlo Ancelotti providing
that crucial nuance to the wholeJovi debate, highlighting the
difficulty, maybe impossibility,of comparing across eras while
still acknowledging Messi's supreme talent in his own time.
Then there was the, well, truly profusive praise from Pep
Guardiola, seeing Messi as not just unparalleled but almost
supernatural, describing that unique vision, the flawless
(32:31):
decisions, the pure, unpredictable genius.
And Jurgen Klopp marveling at his extraordinary longevity,
pointing out how Messi is basically redefining career
timelines for elite athletes, adapting his game brilliantly to
sustain excellence deep into his30s.
It's like a new frontier. And of course, Jose Mourinho,
the master practition giving us that fascinating paradox, the
(32:54):
player he most wanted to sign, but also the one he was called
uncoachable because he was just born with it all.
Detailing that tactical cage he had to build just to try and
contain him. A true testament to Messi's
unique unstoppable force. The consistent thread woven
through all these different insights, from pure admiration
to tactical desperation, it seems to be that Messi isn't
(33:16):
just another great player. No, he's a force that reshapes
the game itself, compelling eventhe most brilliant football
minds to rethink their understanding of the sport,
rethink what a single individualcan actually achieve.
So this overwhelming consensus from the sport's greatest
thinkers, it leaves us with a final question, doesn't it?
For you, listening to ponder. In a sport that feels
increasingly defined by systems,by data, by sheer athleticism,
(33:40):
what does Messi's unique, almostindescribable genius, That
individual artistry, that pure instinct?
What does it really teach us? About the enduring power of raw
talent, of intuitive understanding on the field.
Exactly. And maybe the biggest question
of all, will we ever see his light again?
Or is he truly a singular, unrepeatable phenomenon in the
history of this beautiful game?
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