June 1, 2025 • 45 mins
What if you could escape the endless news cycle, afford healthcare without a second mortgage, and actually use your vacation days without guilt? Welcome to "Leaving America," the limited series where we're diving into why a record 40% of Americans are now considering life beyond US borders, why so many are actually taking the leap, where to go, and how to get there.
This isn't just daydreaming anymore. From Mexico granting 11,000+ residencies to Americans in 2022 to Portugal's exploding expat communities, the exodus is real. But why now? What's changed to make millions reconsider what was once unthinkable?
In this first episode, we're taking you inside the political exhaustion driving many to seek more stable democracies, where election cycles don't feel like existential threats. You'll hear shocking financial comparisons – like trading a $900,000 Los Angeles home for a $200,000 Portuguese villa, or swapping a $3,500 New York apartment for a $500 Mexican casa. And the healthcare reality? That $18,865 American childbirth versus virtually free delivery in countries with universal coverage speaks volumes.
Through conversations with immigration attorneys, tax experts, and Americans who've already made the move, we examine the stark differences in work culture, community connection, and overall quality of life. As one expat puts it: "It's the best opportunity to reinvent yourself outside the Witness Protection Program."
But we don't sugarcoat the challenges either – from navigating visa requirements to understanding that yes, the IRS still wants its cut no matter where you live. This isn't Emily in Paris; it's real life, just somewhere else.
Whether you're seriously planning your escape or just curious about what's driving this modern American migration, subscribe now to explore whether leaving might actually be the most patriotic thing you could do – voting with your feet for the life you deserve.
Featuring:
Xanthe and Dana
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shawn (00:05):
Welcome to Leaving America, the limited podcast
series where we're going to askthe increasingly reasonable
question should I selleverything I own and move
somewhere?
My blood pressure won't spikeevery time I check the news.
This series is for anyone who'sflirted with the idea of moving
abroad maybe to sip wine in anItalian village, maybe to answer
(00:27):
emails from a hammock in CostaRica, or maybe just a grocery
shop somewhere that doesn'tinvolve tactical gear.
Over the course of this series,we're diving deep into why more
Americans than ever are lookingbeyond US borders, exploring
the legal logistics, theemotional roller coaster, the
financial realities andsometimes the mountains of
(00:47):
paperwork that can either makeyou cry or drink, or both.
Leaving isn't simple.
This isn't Emily in Paris,where you land a perfect job,
get off the plane and areperfectly integrated into Paris
with no ongoing residencyquestions.
It's more like forms, visa fees, culture shock and learning the
hard way that not everywhereaccepts your credit card.
(01:10):
But there's good news too.
There are real opportunities,real paths to build a better,
calmer, healthier life abroad.
Places where you don't have tomortgage your house to afford a
doctor's visit.
Places where the work-lifebalance isn't just a myth.
Places where you don't have towonder if the next election
cycle will determine the fate ofthe republic.
And millions of Americans havedone and are doing it, and
(01:33):
they're not all millionaires,they're not all single and
childless and they're not allretired.
Throughout this series, you'llhear from about 20 experts and
expats, immigration lawyers, taxprofessionals, relocation
specialists, bloggers, writers,podcasters and people who've
actually packed up their livesand made the leap.
(01:53):
And today, in this very firstepisode, we're starting with the
big question Should you stay orshould you go?
And, just as importantly, whyare so many Americans even
considering this at all?
Right now, I'm your host, ShawnC Fettig, and if you've ever
stared out the window during awork meeting and wondered would
life be better if I werewatching dolphins play off the
coast of New Zealand, you'reabsolutely in the right place To
(02:18):
make sure you're alwaysnotified when a new episode
comes out.
Please find, follow and likeLeaving America on the Deep Dive
with Shawn podcast feedanywhere you get your podcasts,
and if you have any personalLeaving America experiences,
thoughts or questions, pleasewrite to us at deepdivewithshawn
at gmailcom.
All right, pack your bags.
(02:39):
This is Leaving America.
Karen McCann (02:44):
A lot of people that I talk to are a little bit
nervous about moving abroad andthey think that it's going to be
extremely difficult.
It's not really that difficult.
There's an awful lot ofpaperwork which is tedious, but
it is also the most incredibleexperience to live in a foreign
culture.
It is the best opportunity youhave to reinvent yourself.
(03:07):
Outside the Witness ProtectionProgram.
You get to hit the reset buttonon your life and your social
life in particular, becauseeverybody else in the expat
community is just like you.
They're new, they're looking tomake friends, they've got
interesting experiences, they'velived all over the world.
They've lived all over theworld, they're from all over the
world.
So you have an opportunity toenrich your life in a way that
(03:31):
few people do.
And if you have the opportunityand you're serious about it, I
wouldn't be afraid.
I think, just commit, do it,have a wonderful time.
And you know what?
If it doesn't work out, you canalways move back, have a
wonderful time.
Shawn (03:46):
And you know what?
If it doesn't work out, you canalways move back.
That was Karen McCann, creatorof the Enjoy Living Abroad blog
and author of several books,like the Great Mediterranean
Comfort Food Tour and Adventuresof a Railway Nomad.
If you've spent even a minutescrolling real estate listings
in Portugal, mexico, france orNew Zealand daydreaming about a
little stone cottage, a slowerpace, a life with fewer breaking
(04:09):
news alerts, you are very muchnot alone.
And this isn't just a passingdaydream anymore.
According to a 2023 Gallup poll, 40% of Americans said they
would consider leaving the USpermanently if given the
opportunity.
That's nearly double the numberfrom 20 years ago.
And it's not just wouldconsider it someday.
(04:31):
It's turning into actual action.
The US State Departmentestimated back in 2019 that
around 9 million Americans wereliving abroad.
That number has almostcertainly climbed since then.
After a global pandemic, twoturbulent election cycles,
rising costs, mass shootings andan increasingly strained
(04:51):
healthcare system, residencyapplications from Americans have
exploded in countries likePortugal, spain and Mexico.
Mexico, in particular, grantedover 11,000 temporary or
permanent residencies toAmericans in 2022 alone more
than any other nationality.
In cities like Merida, sanMiguel de Allende and Mexico
(05:13):
City, american expat communitiesare thriving, full of people
who traded high rents, longcommutes and astronomical
healthcare costs for slower,more affordable, more livable
lifestyles.
Even Canada, historicallyselective when it comes to
immigration, is seeing a rise inAmerican applicants.
What used to be a joke afterevery election I'm moving to
(05:35):
Canada is now a very real option.
People are researching,planning and pursuing.
So what's going on?
What's changed?
Why are so many Americans eventhose who never thought they'd
leave wondering if life mightactually be better elsewhere?
The answer isn't simple, butthe main drivers are clear.
They have to do with ourpolitics and our safety, cost of
(05:59):
living and work-life balance.
In short, people aren't justasking what if I left anymore.
They're starting to ask why amI staying?
And that's a shift worth payingattention to.
Politics have always beendivisive in America.
That's not new.
What is new is the sheerintensity of the division, the
(06:19):
sense that we're not justdebating politics anymore.
We're fighting over the verydefinition of reality.
A 2022 Pew Research Centerstudy found that 72% of
Americans believe the country ismore politically divided now
than at any point since theCivil War.
That's not just wow.
People are really passionatelately.
(06:39):
That's more like should I bestockpiling food and learning
how to knit, and it's not justhow divided we are, it's how
dangerous that division feels.
The Carnegie Endowment forInternational Peace officially
classified the United States asa backsliding democracy, a term
that's usually reserved forcountries that are not known for
their thriving free press andorderly elections.
(07:01):
It's not just theory either.
Every time there's an election,interest in moving abroad
spikes, but since Donald Trump'sre-election in November, it's
not just a few dramatic socialmedia posts anymore.
It's actual moves, actual visaapplications, actual people
leaving, and the fear isbipartisan Progressives,
(07:23):
particularly women, lgbtq plusfolks and people of color, are
increasingly worried aboutsafety, rights and even basic
dignity.
This is Daniel Tostado, animmigration lawyer who helps
people relocate and settle inFrance, explaining how the
current American politicalenvironment makes France an
attractive relocation option.
Daniel Tostado (07:43):
Political environment makes France an
attractive relocation option ForLGBT folks.
I think of the fact that DonaldJ Trump, the president, is
trying to remove the X marker onpassports in terms of gender,
that is now only going to say Mand F and that's only based off
of what appeared on one's birthcertificate, regardless of any
(08:03):
kind of medical transition orotherwise.
And when France saw that,france reacted by saying that's
not how France treats LGBT folks, that how one identifies can be
requested to be recognized bythe French authorities, and then
they'll do so.
So I find that France isfriendly in that manner.
(08:25):
In a similar vein, when wethink about women and France and
women's rights, that under theUS Supreme Court, which
currently isa, conservative tiltsix justices appointed by
conservative presidents, threeby progressive presidents that
when they revoked Roe v Wade,france's reaction to that was to
(08:45):
constitutionalize the right toget an abortion.
So I think a lot of the ways inwhich the US is going, that
France is trying to secure theroute so that that doesn't
happen in France.
Shawn (08:57):
Meanwhile, many conservatives are feeling
disillusioned too, seeingcultural shifts they view as
unrecognizable or feeling likethe country is leaving them
behind.
And a lot of moderates are justexhausted, trying to find some
quiet corner of the world whereevery conversation doesn't feel
like a political minefield.
No matter where people fall onthe political spectrum, the mood
(09:20):
is eerily similarDisillusionment, frustration,
fear and a creeping sense thatthings might not probably won't,
get better anytime soon, andthat's leading many to take a
serious look at countriesperceived as more stable, more
democratic and, frankly, lessstressful Countries like Canada,
with strong democraticinstitutions and progressive
(09:42):
policies.
Portugal, which is politicallystable, affordable and fiercely
protective of civil rights, andNew Zealand, known for
transparency, low corruption anda powerful social contract.
This is Aaron Martin, principallawyer at New Zealand
Immigration Law, with decades ofexperience helping people
transition to New Zealand,explaining one way in which the
(10:03):
country has built and maintaineda strong social contract.
Aaron Martin (10:10):
We actually have removed the ability for a person
to sue another person forpersonal injury by accident.
So if I'm, for example, drivingmy car and I accidentally knock
over a person on a bicycle,that person's injuries, the
(10:35):
hospital treatment, therehabilitation treatment, will
be taken care of by this schemeknown as the accident
compensation scheme.
That person can't sue me forloss of earnings.
Why?
Because the accidentcompensation scheme replaces 80%
of their pre-accident earningswhile they're unable to go to
(10:58):
work, and so it was establishedin 1972, if I remember rightly,
and it was affectionately knownas the Great Social Contract.
Established in 1972, if Iremember rightly, and it was
affectionately known as theGreat Social Contract where the
people of New Zealand gave upthis right to sue people for
loss of earnings, for injury,for medical treatment, and that
(11:18):
was taken over by the government, and we all pay into the
accident compensation schemewhen we register our car through
our pay.
Employers contribute to that,and it covers a wide range of
things that people don't expect.
In this particular situation, myclient was visiting their
(11:42):
sister In the house.
There was a door that led downto a basement.
In the middle of the night,thinking that this was the
bathroom, they went through thatdoor and actually it was the
door down into the basement, andthey fell down the stairs,
suffered a back injury, werehospitalized, had several months
(12:05):
where they were, you know,unable to really do anything
other than go throughrehabilitation, etc.
All of those costs were coveredby accident compensation, even
though that person was visitinghere from another country, here
from another country.
Shawn (12:26):
Even smaller countries like Uruguay, iceland and
Finland are drawing attentionPlaces where democracy feels
healthy, civil discourse isstill a thing and kids don't
have to endure active shooterdrills.
The bottom line is that moreAmericans than ever aren't just
questioning who's in office.
They're questioning whether thewhole system still works for
them, and increasingly, theanswer is no.
(12:48):
Of course, political dramaisn't the only thing sending
Americans to Google phrases likecheap countries to live in.
Another major factor is money,because in America right now, it
feels like, unless you wereborn into tech wealth, your best
bet for financial security iswinning the lottery and marrying
rich, and I mean both.
Housing is out of control,healthcare costs astronomical,
(13:13):
education is budget busting andchildcare can cost more than a
mortgage and wages Not growing.
Over the past 20 years, thecost of living has soared, while
incomes, especiallymiddle-class incomes, have
stagnated.
A recent study by the PrincetonReview found that over 60% of
millennials in Gen Z believethey will never be able to
(13:34):
afford a home.
This isn't just pessimism, it'smath.
In Los Angeles, the median homeprice is around $900,000, which
is about 12 times the medianincome In San Francisco.
The median price is $1.3million In New York City.
Good luck finding a one-bedroomfor under $3,500 a month.
(13:54):
And it's not just the bigcities anymore.
Places like Austin, boise andeven mid-sized towns across the
country have seen massive realestate spikes pricing out locals
.
Compared to previousgenerations, it's a nightmare.
In the 1970s, a home cost abouttwo and a half times the median
household income.
Today it's six to 10 times that.
(14:16):
And even if you do somehowmanage to scrape together enough
for a home, there are stilltowering property taxes,
maintenance costs, massivemortgage interest rates and
endless upkeep.
So no wonder people are lookingelsewhere, because when you
compare US housing prices tohousing abroad, the difference
really is jaw-dropping.
(14:36):
In Portugal, you can still buya charming home in the
countryside for under $200,000,a price that might get you a
parking space in San Francisco.
Even in Lisbon, a modernone-bedroom can be found for
under $250,000 to $300,000.
And in Mexico, in cities likeMerida, oaxaca or San Miguel de
Allende, you can rent a spacioustwo-bedroom house for $500 to
(15:00):
$700 a month, and buying a home$150,000 might get you something
stunning.
This is Matt Wilson, co-founderof Under 30 Experiences and
author of the Millennial TravelGuidebook Escape More, spend
Less and Make Travel a Priorityin your Life.
Explaining the difference incost of living and lifestyle
between New York and Costa Rica.
Matt Wilson (15:21):
I don't know how I lived on $36,000 a year in New
York City, but I remember mybusiness was kicking off about
three grand a month in 2012,that I received a salary, I had
a business partner and we hadsome part-time employees and you
(15:43):
have expenses, etc.
And we had some part-timeemployees and you have expenses,
et cetera.
So we had a six-figure businessgoing, but we were only taking
$36,000 a year and I realizedvery quickly that, okay, get rid
of this apartment.
At the time it was $3,200 amonth.
I had a roommate.
I was splitting it with anotherguy who was also in his 20s a
(16:05):
month.
I had a roommate, I wassplitting it with another guy
who was also in his 20s, and sofor that kind of rent, of course
you can.
My first apartment in Costa Ricawas $250 a month, going to the
local farmer's market and reallyeating like the locals who I
mean, if you're making $36,000,but you are going to live like
(16:26):
the locals live, and I reallymade a honest attempt at that.
Like I explained before, I waseating rice and beans and the
local produce and everythingthat they would find at the
local farmer's market and Ilived like a king, right, I paid
off my student loans that wayand, yeah, quickly I moved up to
(16:48):
the $400 apartment and that hadtwo bedrooms, I had air
conditioning and I even had hotwater on most days, like it was.
I was really living then.
Shawn (17:03):
In Chiang Mai, thailand, you can rent a sleek, modern
apartment for $400 a month andeat incredible meals for $2 to
$3.
In Medellin, colombia, a luxury, high-rise apartment with a
mountain view can cost under$1,000 a month.
And yes, you can still buy anactual house on an actual Greek
island for under $150,000.
(17:25):
Even France has a lower cost ofliving than the United States.
You might recognize this nextvoice.
Adrienne Leeds is the owner ofthe Adrienne Leeds Group, which
offers real estate services topeople relocating to France, and
she's often featured onepisodes of House Hunters
International.
Here she is explaining how theFrench cost of living stacks up
(17:45):
against the United States.
Here she is explaining how theFrench cost of living stacks up
against the United States.
Adrian Leeds (17:51):
I know you see me laughing that is because you can
live here for half of what itcosts you to live in the United
States.
Half the cost of living in theUnited States is absolutely
insane and ridiculous.
And even though France isconsidered a highly taxed
(18:12):
society, the taxes are mostlyimposed on the people who are
working here on their income.
Okay, so retirees, for example,aren't going to pay any income
tax whatsoever on their USearnings or pensions or their
dividends.
But the cost of living is sogreatly reduced because
Americans pay property taxesthat are about 10 times what
they are in France.
(18:33):
Americans live in mostlysuburbia where they have to have
cars.
Ownership and operation of carsis a very expensive ordeal.
Aaa will tell you it's $12,000to $13,000 a year to own and
operate a car.
You live in an urban area inFrance.
You don't have to have a carbecause public transportation is
fabulous.
Right, general costs likeinternet, tv, telephone in the
(19:01):
US on the average about 200 amonth, in France 35 euros a
month.
You start to compare thesethings.
Talk about health insurance.
Healthcare costs are 10 timesin the US what they are in
France.
It's literally one-tenth thecost.
And healthcare is covered inFrance up to 70%.
(19:23):
So a retiree can come from theUS andS and come to France and
cost them almost nothing for thehealth care coverage the rest
of their lives.
So you know, I tell my clientsall the time that a couple can
exist very, very well in Franceon 5,000 euros a month.
Live like kings, amazing.
Shawn (20:07):
Amazing in New York when you could own an entire house in
Portugal for less than that.
Why stay in a country wherewages don't keep up with
inflation when you could build abetter financial future abroad?
And it's not just an individualissue, it's a systemic one.
The US economy has beenstructured in a way that
prioritizes corporate profitsover worker wages, making it
harder for middle-classAmericans to get ahead, save for
the future or achieve financialindependence or even happiness.
(20:29):
Here's Adrienne Leeds againexplaining a fundamental
difference between France andthe United States in this regard
.
Adrian Leeds (20:41):
I think that capitalism is destroying America
and killing the people becausethey don't understand how
important it is for everyone tobe happy, not just the wealthy,
so this is a big thing for me.
I like the fact thatrelationships matter a lot more
than money all the time, becauseone of the things that you
(21:09):
notice when you live here iswhen you go to the boulangerie.
Your boulanger will rememberwhat kind of a baguette you like
and create a relationship withyou.
You're not just a number or aname, whereas in the States they
don't care about you.
They just want to know how muchmoney they're making off of you
.
It's not the same thing, they'renot building a relationship,
and it really makes you feellike you're a part of the
(21:32):
community and that's a big dealand it's subtle.
You don't really notice it atfirst and then after a while you
realize oh, at the cafe heknows I always want my, what
kind of coffee I'm going toorder, and it just comes without
asking for it, things like that.
And that just never happens inthe States.
Shawn (21:56):
The numbers don't lie.
If you're a middle-class earnerin the United States, the
American dream feels less like adream and more like a very
expensive fantasy.
And when you realize you couldlive better for less somewhere
else, it's hard not to wonderwhy keep fighting an uphill
battle when there are placeswhere the hill isn't quite so
steep.
(22:16):
All right, let's rip off theband-aid.
Health care, the ultimateanxiety-inducing factor for a
lot of Americans considering amove abroad.
Because here's the sad truth Inthe United States, a single
hospital stay can financiallywreck you, even if you have
what's considered good insurance.
The costs are staggering.
(22:36):
The average price of anemergency room visit is $2,600,
and that's before any tests,scans or treatments.
Giving birth a routineuncomplicated delivery averages
around $18,865 with insurance.
And if you need an appendectomy, that can run you anywhere from
(22:57):
$15,000 to $50,000, dependingon which zip code your appendix
resides in.
Americans routinely pay 3 to 10times more for prescription
drugs than people in otherdeveloped nations.
Even basic medications likeinsulin, which cost around $7
per vial in Germany, can costnearly $100 per vial in the
(23:17):
United States.
And this isn't just about a fewunlucky people.
Over half of all bankruptciesin America are linked to medical
debt, Half In the wealthiestcountry on earth.
Meanwhile, in other countriesit's a different universe.
In France, doctor visits costabout $27, hospital stays are
(23:38):
heavily subsidized andprescription meds are heavily
discounted.
In Germany, universal coverage.
Even freelancers and expats areincluded.
A standard doctor visit is freeor carries a very minimal fee.
In Spain, legal residents enjoyfree public health care and
even if you're paying cash outof pocket, most doctor visits
are around $50 to $70.
(24:00):
Canada also universal coverage,no deductibles, no co-pays.
You break your leg, you go tothe hospital, you get it fixed,
you leave, that's it.
Even countries like Portugal,new Zealand and Thailand offer
high quality health care at afraction of the US cost, with
far fewer horror stories aboutsurprise bills and financial
(24:20):
ruin.
Here's Aaron Martin againexplaining the New Zealand
health care system and his ownpersonal experience.
Aaron Martin (24:33):
So we have a government funded health care
system where you get yourtreatment through government
hospitals.
Through government hospitalsyou have your own private GP,
but often there are subsidisedfees to encourage people to go
(24:55):
to the doctor.
So, for example, you might havegovernment subsidising the fees
for a GP visit for children orfor elderly.
For example, when you are aresident visa holder, you get
full access to publicly fundedhealth services.
(25:15):
So if you need cancer treatment, if you need something done for
your eyes, if you need someform of elective surgery, things
of that nature, it is usuallydone on referral by your general
practitioner into publiclyfunded hospital services.
Now, as with most publiclyfunded health services around
(25:37):
the globe, it means there is alarge level of demand, and so
you know you will encounterwaiting times to get treatment.
So it is possible, for example,for people to carry their own
private health care insurance,which is certainly not at the
eye watering levels that peoplein the US experience, where they
(25:58):
might take, for example, apolicy that gives them the
ability to have elective surgerydone through private hospitals
in New Zealand.
But by far the majority of NewZealanders will usually rely on
government-funded healthservices and maybe have some
(26:20):
form of backup medical insuranceto partially cover them for
some aspects of their healthcare.
Publicly funded health services, from my experience, are
particularly good.
If treatment is needed urgently, you usually get treated
urgently.
I'll give you a personalexample.
I had a run-in with cancer justafter my 41st birthday and I
(26:48):
got the result through thepublicly funded health system
because they'd done a biopsy.
I was admitted and receiving myfirst round of chemotherapy
within three days and they were,I have to say, exceptionally
good exceptionally good.
Shawn (27:13):
This all raises a massive , unsettling question If the US
is supposedly the pinnacle ofwealth and progress, why are so
many of its citizens terrifiedof getting sick For millions?
The realization is simple theycan either spend their lives
rationing medicine and avoidingdoctors, or they can move abroad
and access the basic humanright to health care without the
constant threat of bankruptcy.
And when you frame it like that, it's less a radical life
(27:35):
decision and more basic survivalstrategy.
Let's talk about somethingequally soul-crushing the grind.
Because, let's be honest,americans don't just work.
We grind, we hustle.
We proudly glorify exhaustionlike it's a competitive sport.
The average American works about2,080 hours per year.
(27:55):
That's hundreds more thanworkers in Germany, france or
the Netherlands.
55% of Americans don't use alltheir vacation days, even when
they have them, and the US isthe only industrialized nation
that doesn't guarantee paidvacation or paid parental leave
at the federal level.
And it's not making us richeror happier.
(28:15):
Studies show that Americansexperience higher levels of
stress, anxiety, burnout anddepression than workers in
countries that prioritizework-life balance.
And, even worse, countries likeGermany and the Netherlands,
where people work fewer hours,actually have higher
productivity per hour than theUS.
So we're working more, livingless and somehow still falling
(28:40):
behind.
And when it comes time forretirement, the finish line just
keeps moving.
The average American retirementage has crept up to 65 to 67
years old, compared to 60 oryounger in much of Europe, and
with Social Security's futurelooking shaky, many Americans
are planning to work well intotheir 70s, if they're lucky
(29:00):
enough to keep working at all.
Meanwhile, in much of the world, they have a very different
philosophy.
This is Tim Leffel,award-winning travel writer and
author of the books the World'sCheapest Destinations Travel.
Tim Leffel (29:19):
Writing 2.0, and A Better Life for Half the Price,
explaining this phenomenon.
So there's all these differentreasons that people have for
moving abroad and some of them,you know, it's just a quality of
life issue.
You know, once you get out ofthe US you kind of breathe this
big sigh of relief because youget away from 24-hour news, you
get away from the workaholicattitudes, you know, you get
(29:39):
away from the stress and you'reoften healthier too.
Because you're walking more,you're not, you know it.
Because you're walking more,you're not, you know, it's not
such a car culture.
You're eating better becausefruit and vegetables are not so
expensive.
It's easier to eat organic in alot of places, especially
Europe.
I mean, that's kind of the norminstead of the exception.
Shawn (30:02):
In Sweden, the concept of lagom just enough permeates the
culture.
Overworking isn't a badge ofhonor, it's seen as inefficient.
Workers typically get 25 to 30paid vacation days per year, and
in France, full-time employeesget a minimum of five weeks of
paid vacation annually, plusholidays.
And thanks to the 2017 Right toDisconnect law, companies can't
(30:26):
legally expect workers toanswer emails outside of work
hours.
I mean, imagine that, notfeeling pressured to check your
email at 10pm or work onweekends.
In Costa Rica, the nationalmotto, pura Vida, is about
prioritizing well-being,community and enjoying life, and
they don't just say it, theylive it.
Costa Rica ranks among thehappiest countries in the world,
(30:49):
largely because of itslaid-back lifestyle, strong
social networks and focus onhealth and nature.
Many expats say they moved toCosta Rica to escape stress,
long work hours and financialpressures, and found themselves
actually enjoying life for thefirst time.
These are American expats,zanta and Dana, who have made
the move to Costa Rica,explaining this Pura Vida
(31:12):
lifestyle.
Xanthe and Dana (31:15):
Our culture is very go, go, go, go go.
You know fast food.
You go to the restaurant,everything.
You really do have to slow itdown.
They don't live like that and Ithink they it would be kind of
offensive to them like what?
Like why they're, they'rereally embrace that Pura Vida
(31:37):
culture.
So, like you know, at arestaurant that you don't expect
, like you're standing there,you know you might not have a
host like run up to you and belike, oh, we'll get your thing.
I mean it just might be aminute.
You know, same thing with yourdrinks, with your food.
Like you know there's no, thetime here is different.
Like everything goes withsunrise, sunset and it doesn't
(32:00):
really change.
We don't have any time changehere.
We don't have any time changehere.
And you're close enough to theequator.
Like you know, sun comes upabout five 30 and the sun sets
about five 30.
Like it's people really kind ofwork and play around that.
Like it's you know, and it'sit's one of those places like
(32:22):
still at sunset people drive outevery single day to the beach
and or walk out to see thesunset come flying in cars.
Daniel Tostado (32:32):
I saw one last night just come flying in.
Xanthe and Dana (32:34):
That was great because it was like, look, they
made the sunset.
Yeah, it's different.
And like, coming from like Ilove the beach, I love to surf,
every day I'm out there.
It kind of reminds me of likewhat California must have been
like a long time ago.
Like all the beaches in CostaRica are public On Sundays, like
a lot of the locals come fromSan Jose and they've got grills
(32:58):
and music and fun and coolersyeah it's called the People's
Beach and you don't pay forparking anywhere.
Like you know, you can't even beclose to a California beach
without having to pay.
You know parking and all that.
So it's very, it's just verydifferent.
Shawn (33:21):
Spain takes work-life balance to another level.
The traditional siesta culturestill exists in some parts of
Spain, allowing workers to takea long midday break to eat, rest
or spend time with familybefore returning to work.
The standard work week istypically 35 to 40 hours, and
long lunches or coffee breaksare considered normal.
The cost of living is lower,meaning people don't have to
(33:44):
work excessive hours just tocover basic needs.
Spain isn't just about lesswork.
It's about valuing life outsideof work.
This is Karen McCann again, whohas written numerous books
about her travels and dividesher time between Spain and San
Francisco, explaining thisunique Spanish approach to time
(34:06):
and community.
Karen McCann (34:12):
You know, you read that they have later lunch and
later dinner and you kind of getyour head around that.
But the whole attitude towardstime is different.
The idea in Spain is if youbump into a friend on the street
, you go and have a coffee.
You always make time.
You make time for your friendsand family in a way that
Americans really don't anymore.
It's just built into theculture they seem.
(34:35):
In Spain, they seem to have theidea that they have more time
than they could possibly use.
They are very generous with itand it's so refreshing.
When I'm in the States, if Iwanna have dinner with somebody,
I have to make an appointmenttwo weeks in advance, even with
my sisters, whereas in Spain weoften bump into somebody on the
street my husband and I andthey'll go hey, what are you
(34:56):
doing tonight?
And the next thing we knowwe're all going off and having
dinner together.
It's just a different attitudetowards time.
Shawn (35:05):
For many Americans, hearing about these cultural
norms is like hearing aboutunicorns a world where work
doesn't consume your life, wheretaking off isn't seen as
slacking, where weekends areactually for relaxing.
It sounds almost suspiciouslygood, and it raises yet another
uncomfortable question.
If other countries have figuredout that happiness, health and
(35:26):
balance matter just as much asGDP, why are we still glorifying
burnout like it's some kind ofvirtue?
All right, so maybe it's timefor a reality check Before you
start packing your bags andpracticing your French.
Let's talk about the part thatInstagram travel bloggers don't
always tell you.
Moving abroad is not a magicescape hatch.
(35:47):
Yes, it can be life-changing,yes, it can be wonderful, but it
also comes with a unique set ofchallenges that no amount of
wishful thinking can erase.
So let's break down a few ofthem.
Getting legal residency inanother country is not like
joining a rewards program.
You're going to face probablyquite a bit of paperwork, income
requirements that aren't alwayssuper clear and changing rules
(36:10):
that can leave you scramblinghalfway through your application
.
For example, portugal's popularD7 visa, which used to be an
easy option for retirees andremote workers, recently
tightened income standards.
Thailand's visa options forlong-term stayers have
fluctuated so much and so oftenthat even immigration lawyers
can lose track.
And in Japan, unless you have along-term employment contract
(36:34):
or you're marrying a citizen,your chances of permanent
residency are roughly the sameas winning the Powerball.
You'll need to budget time,patience and probably a little
cash for legal help along theway.
There are also culturaladjustments.
You might think you're preparedfor life abroad.
If you've watched a few YouTubevideos.
You've learned how to saywhere's the bathroom in Spanish.
But trust me, culture shock isreal.
(36:55):
Even simple stuff getscomplicated Paying utility bill,
finding the right doctor,understanding when stores are
open or why they randomly closeon Wednesdays.
This is Heather Mason, creatorof the Two Summers blog,
explaining her experience tryingto set up a bank account in
South Africa.
Heather Mason (37:16):
There's a lot of red tape around banking in South
Africa, I think, becausehistorically there has been a
lot more corruption and fraud.
Well, I say more, there's a lotof corruption and fraud in the
banking system here.
So it's actually very hard toget a bank account, and I think
I lived here for three yearsbefore I was able to get my own
bank, maybe even four.
(37:36):
It took me a long time, whichwas very difficult.
I mean, I spent a lot of timepaying my rent and bills in cash
because I literally couldn'tget a bank account until because
here you can't get a bankaccount until you have a proper
visa, and it took me quite a fewyears to straighten that out.
So and I you know you can't getif you have a spouse visa, for
example, you can't open a bankaccount.
(37:58):
You can only use your spouse'sbank account.
So anyway, I finally got one andand I I am very careful to make
sure you know cause, if yourvisa, if you, if your visa
lapses, for example, you have abank account, the bank will
freeze your account.
So you really have to stay ontop of that and make sure your
visa is up to date and thatyou've reported.
You know all of yourinformation to the bank at all
(38:19):
times.
And then cell phone yeah, allthe things that you need in
addition to that, like cellphone, contract, health
insurance, all those things.
They're also kind of hard toget if you don't have a bank
account.
Shawn (38:35):
In Spain, stores still shut down in the afternoon.
In Japan, trying to understandrigid social etiquette can feel
insurmountable.
In Germany, cash is king andcredit cards aren't always
accepted.
And then there's thebureaucracy.
If you think US governmentwebsites are bad, wait until you
try to get a residency permitin a country where the forms are
(38:55):
in four languages, none of themyours.
These frustrations are part ofthe journey, but if you aren't
prepared, they can quickly turnthat idyllic expat dream into a
daily grind of confusion andmild rage.
Here's something else that a lotof people don't realize until
they're staring down April 15th,the first year after a move.
(39:15):
The US taxes you, no matterwhere you live.
The United States is one ofonly two countries in the world
the other is Eritrea, goodcompany that taxes its citizens
on worldwide income.
So even if you move to Portugal, thailand, costa Rica or
anywhere, you still have to filea US tax return every year,
(39:36):
report your foreign bankaccounts if they total over
$10,000, and potentially paytaxes depending on your income,
credits and deductions.
Here's David Lesperance,founder of Lesperance Associates
, a group of international taxand immigration advisors,
outlining some of the taxrealities Americans need to
consider when moving abroad.
David Lesperance (39:58):
A US citizen, even if they move to a
jurisdiction which has no tax,will still owe US federal tax
and still have US financialreporting on things like foreign
bank account reports, fbars andmutual funds, pfics and a
variety of different things, ifthey're going to be moving to a
(40:20):
jurisdiction which has a taxregime.
Many countries do, which youcan, either because they have a
specific regime.
For example, we'll look atEurope.
The UK is just getting rid of aregime they had called the
remittance or non-dom system,but Ireland, cyprus and Malta
still have that system.
Other countries such as Italy,greece and Switzerland have said
(40:45):
we're going to have a lump sum.
So if you move to Italy, it's200,000 a year euros 200,000
euros.
Whether you make a dollar or200 million, it's 200,000 a year
euros 200,000 euros.
Whether you make a dollar or200 million, it's 200,000.
One of the other advantages ofa lump sum jurisdiction is the
tax becomes a line item.
You also don't have to pay youraccountant for complex returns.
(41:09):
You also don't have to look atthis very complex tax return as
you sign it and think toyourself gee, I hope my
accountant got it right.
Other countries such as, forexample, canada they have some
pre-immigration tax planning.
They may also have differentthings, like Canada, for example
, doesn't have an estate tax ora gift tax.
(41:29):
So it's looking at all thedifferent regimes and how they
interact.
If the person is giving uptheir US citizenship there is
some, depending on what theirnet worth is and generally
unless they have a specificexemption to this regime the
clients who would considereconomically an expatriation
(41:50):
they will trigger an exit tax, ataxation on unrealized capital
gain.
There is an exemption it's alittle over $900,000 right now,
but they pay the top federalrate on everything above that
and there's also an inheritancetax.
So there's some complexplanning that we can do
beforehand.
But they've just jumped out ofthe US tax pot.
(42:11):
They want to make sure theydon't jump into another tax
buyer so they may move, forexample, to one of the various
jurisdictions what are normallythought of as high tax countries
, but on a lower controlled taxbasis because they have these
special regimes.
Shawn (42:30):
Now there are treaties and exclusions that can help you
avoid double taxation, like theForeign Earned Income Exclusion
, feie, but the paperwork iscomplex enough that you might
need a specialized internationaltax advisor.
Good news, though We'll diginto all the tax realities in
much more detail in an upcomingepisode, but for now, just know
(42:50):
moving abroad does not meanbreaking up with the IRS.
But for now, just know movingabroad does not mean breaking up
with the IRS.
Also, if your plan is to workfrom anywhere as a digital nomad
, you'll need to double-checkthe rules, because not every
country smiles upon laptopwarriors working under tourist
visas.
Spain and Portugal are two ofmany countries that offer
special digital nomad visas, butthey come with income minimums
(43:15):
and application hurdles, eachdifferent for each country.
Thailand doesn't allow remotework on a tourist visa at all,
and people have been deportedfor violating it.
Japan has very limited pathwaysfor freelancers and remote
workers.
The bottom line here is if youplan to work abroad, make sure
you understand what's legal andwhat could get you a one-way
ticket home.
So, after all that, should youstay or should you go?
(43:51):
The answer is, like mostimportant things in life,
complicated.
Moving abroad can belife-changing, financially
liberating, spirituallyrefreshing and, yes, sometimes
even wildly fun.
But it also comes withpaperwork, language barriers,
culture shock, a steep learningcurve.
It's not a fairy tale.
It's not a permanent vacation.
(44:12):
It's real life, just somewhereelse, and like any real life, it
comes with trade-offs.
You might save money, livehealthier and feel freer abroad,
but you'll also need to adapt,learn and be willing to start
over in ways, big and small.
If you're flexible, curious andready to embrace change, leaving
America could be the bestdecision you ever make.
(44:33):
And if you're now thinking okayand ready to embrace change,
leaving America could be thebest decision you ever make.
And if you're now thinking okay, maybe this is for me, but
where would I even go?
That's exactly where we'reheaded in our next episode, when
we'll be talking about some ofthe easiest and most popular
escapes for Americans.
We're going to cover the mostpopular visa programs, how much
you realistically need to livecomfortably and some of the
(44:55):
hidden challenges to making themove, challenges that just a
little preparation can mitigate.
This is Leaving America,because sometimes home isn't
where you started.
Thank you.
Welcome to Leaving America, the limited podcast
series where we're going to askthe increasingly reasonable
question should I selleverything I own and move
somewhere?
My blood pressure won't spikeevery time I check the news.
This series is for anyone who'sflirted with the idea of moving
abroad maybe to sip wine in anItalian village, maybe to answer
(00:27):
emails from a hammock in CostaRica, or maybe just a grocery
shop somewhere that doesn'tinvolve tactical gear.
Over the course of this series,we're diving deep into why more
Americans than ever are lookingbeyond US borders, exploring
the legal logistics, theemotional roller coaster, the
financial realities andsometimes the mountains of
(00:47):
paperwork that can either makeyou cry or drink, or both.
Leaving isn't simple.
This isn't Emily in Paris,where you land a perfect job,
get off the plane and areperfectly integrated into Paris
with no ongoing residencyquestions.
It's more like forms, visa fees, culture shock and learning the
hard way that not everywhereaccepts your credit card.
(01:10):
But there's good news too.
There are real opportunities,real paths to build a better,
calmer, healthier life abroad.
Places where you don't have tomortgage your house to afford a
doctor's visit.
Places where the work-lifebalance isn't just a myth.
Places where you don't have towonder if the next election
cycle will determine the fate ofthe republic.
And millions of Americans havedone and are doing it, and
(01:33):
they're not all millionaires,they're not all single and
childless and they're not allretired.
Throughout this series, you'llhear from about 20 experts and
expats, immigration lawyers, taxprofessionals, relocation
specialists, bloggers, writers,podcasters and people who've
actually packed up their livesand made the leap.
(01:53):
And today, in this very firstepisode, we're starting with the
big question Should you stay orshould you go?
And, just as importantly, whyare so many Americans even
considering this at all?
Right now, I'm your host, ShawnC Fettig, and if you've ever
stared out the window during awork meeting and wondered would
life be better if I werewatching dolphins play off the
coast of New Zealand, you'reabsolutely in the right place To
(02:18):
make sure you're alwaysnotified when a new episode
comes out.
Please find, follow and likeLeaving America on the Deep Dive
with Shawn podcast feedanywhere you get your podcasts,
and if you have any personalLeaving America experiences,
thoughts or questions, pleasewrite to us at deepdivewithshawn
at gmailcom.
All right, pack your bags.
(02:39):
This is Leaving America.
Karen McCann (02:44):
A lot of people that I talk to are a little bit
nervous about moving abroad andthey think that it's going to be
extremely difficult.
It's not really that difficult.
There's an awful lot ofpaperwork which is tedious, but
it is also the most incredibleexperience to live in a foreign
culture.
It is the best opportunity youhave to reinvent yourself.
(03:07):
Outside the Witness ProtectionProgram.
You get to hit the reset buttonon your life and your social
life in particular, becauseeverybody else in the expat
community is just like you.
They're new, they're looking tomake friends, they've got
interesting experiences, they'velived all over the world.
They've lived all over theworld, they're from all over the
world.
So you have an opportunity toenrich your life in a way that
(03:31):
few people do.
And if you have the opportunityand you're serious about it, I
wouldn't be afraid.
I think, just commit, do it,have a wonderful time.
And you know what?
If it doesn't work out, you canalways move back, have a
wonderful time.
Shawn (03:46):
And you know what?
If it doesn't work out, you canalways move back.
That was Karen McCann, creatorof the Enjoy Living Abroad blog
and author of several books,like the Great Mediterranean
Comfort Food Tour and Adventuresof a Railway Nomad.
If you've spent even a minutescrolling real estate listings
in Portugal, mexico, france orNew Zealand daydreaming about a
little stone cottage, a slowerpace, a life with fewer breaking
(04:09):
news alerts, you are very muchnot alone.
And this isn't just a passingdaydream anymore.
According to a 2023 Gallup poll, 40% of Americans said they
would consider leaving the USpermanently if given the
opportunity.
That's nearly double the numberfrom 20 years ago.
And it's not just wouldconsider it someday.
(04:31):
It's turning into actual action.
The US State Departmentestimated back in 2019 that
around 9 million Americans wereliving abroad.
That number has almostcertainly climbed since then.
After a global pandemic, twoturbulent election cycles,
rising costs, mass shootings andan increasingly strained
(04:51):
healthcare system, residencyapplications from Americans have
exploded in countries likePortugal, spain and Mexico.
Mexico, in particular, grantedover 11,000 temporary or
permanent residencies toAmericans in 2022 alone more
than any other nationality.
In cities like Merida, sanMiguel de Allende and Mexico
(05:13):
City, american expat communitiesare thriving, full of people
who traded high rents, longcommutes and astronomical
healthcare costs for slower,more affordable, more livable
lifestyles.
Even Canada, historicallyselective when it comes to
immigration, is seeing a rise inAmerican applicants.
What used to be a joke afterevery election I'm moving to
(05:35):
Canada is now a very real option.
People are researching,planning and pursuing.
So what's going on?
What's changed?
Why are so many Americans eventhose who never thought they'd
leave wondering if life mightactually be better elsewhere?
The answer isn't simple, butthe main drivers are clear.
They have to do with ourpolitics and our safety, cost of
(05:59):
living and work-life balance.
In short, people aren't justasking what if I left anymore.
They're starting to ask why amI staying?
And that's a shift worth payingattention to.
Politics have always beendivisive in America.
That's not new.
What is new is the sheerintensity of the division, the
(06:19):
sense that we're not justdebating politics anymore.
We're fighting over the verydefinition of reality.
A 2022 Pew Research Centerstudy found that 72% of
Americans believe the country ismore politically divided now
than at any point since theCivil War.
That's not just wow.
People are really passionatelately.
(06:39):
That's more like should I bestockpiling food and learning
how to knit, and it's not justhow divided we are, it's how
dangerous that division feels.
The Carnegie Endowment forInternational Peace officially
classified the United States asa backsliding democracy, a term
that's usually reserved forcountries that are not known for
their thriving free press andorderly elections.
(07:01):
It's not just theory either.
Every time there's an election,interest in moving abroad
spikes, but since Donald Trump'sre-election in November, it's
not just a few dramatic socialmedia posts anymore.
It's actual moves, actual visaapplications, actual people
leaving, and the fear isbipartisan Progressives,
(07:23):
particularly women, lgbtq plusfolks and people of color, are
increasingly worried aboutsafety, rights and even basic
dignity.
This is Daniel Tostado, animmigration lawyer who helps
people relocate and settle inFrance, explaining how the
current American politicalenvironment makes France an
attractive relocation option.
Daniel Tostado (07:43):
Political environment makes France an
attractive relocation option ForLGBT folks.
I think of the fact that DonaldJ Trump, the president, is
trying to remove the X marker onpassports in terms of gender,
that is now only going to say Mand F and that's only based off
of what appeared on one's birthcertificate, regardless of any
(08:03):
kind of medical transition orotherwise.
And when France saw that,france reacted by saying that's
not how France treats LGBT folks, that how one identifies can be
requested to be recognized bythe French authorities, and then
they'll do so.
So I find that France isfriendly in that manner.
(08:25):
In a similar vein, when wethink about women and France and
women's rights, that under theUS Supreme Court, which
currently isa, conservative tiltsix justices appointed by
conservative presidents, threeby progressive presidents that
when they revoked Roe v Wade,france's reaction to that was to
(08:45):
constitutionalize the right toget an abortion.
So I think a lot of the ways inwhich the US is going, that
France is trying to secure theroute so that that doesn't
happen in France.
Shawn (08:57):
Meanwhile, many conservatives are feeling
disillusioned too, seeingcultural shifts they view as
unrecognizable or feeling likethe country is leaving them
behind.
And a lot of moderates are justexhausted, trying to find some
quiet corner of the world whereevery conversation doesn't feel
like a political minefield.
No matter where people fall onthe political spectrum, the mood
(09:20):
is eerily similarDisillusionment, frustration,
fear and a creeping sense thatthings might not probably won't,
get better anytime soon, andthat's leading many to take a
serious look at countriesperceived as more stable, more
democratic and, frankly, lessstressful Countries like Canada,
with strong democraticinstitutions and progressive
(09:42):
policies.
Portugal, which is politicallystable, affordable and fiercely
protective of civil rights, andNew Zealand, known for
transparency, low corruption anda powerful social contract.
This is Aaron Martin, principallawyer at New Zealand
Immigration Law, with decades ofexperience helping people
transition to New Zealand,explaining one way in which the
(10:03):
country has built and maintaineda strong social contract.
Aaron Martin (10:10):
We actually have removed the ability for a person
to sue another person forpersonal injury by accident.
So if I'm, for example, drivingmy car and I accidentally knock
over a person on a bicycle,that person's injuries, the
(10:35):
hospital treatment, therehabilitation treatment, will
be taken care of by this schemeknown as the accident
compensation scheme.
That person can't sue me forloss of earnings.
Why?
Because the accidentcompensation scheme replaces 80%
of their pre-accident earningswhile they're unable to go to
(10:58):
work, and so it was establishedin 1972, if I remember rightly,
and it was affectionately knownas the Great Social Contract.
Established in 1972, if Iremember rightly, and it was
affectionately known as theGreat Social Contract where the
people of New Zealand gave upthis right to sue people for
loss of earnings, for injury,for medical treatment, and that
(11:18):
was taken over by the government, and we all pay into the
accident compensation schemewhen we register our car through
our pay.
Employers contribute to that,and it covers a wide range of
things that people don't expect.
In this particular situation, myclient was visiting their
(11:42):
sister In the house.
There was a door that led downto a basement.
In the middle of the night,thinking that this was the
bathroom, they went through thatdoor and actually it was the
door down into the basement, andthey fell down the stairs,
suffered a back injury, werehospitalized, had several months
(12:05):
where they were, you know,unable to really do anything
other than go throughrehabilitation, etc.
All of those costs were coveredby accident compensation, even
though that person was visitinghere from another country, here
from another country.
Shawn (12:26):
Even smaller countries like Uruguay, iceland and
Finland are drawing attentionPlaces where democracy feels
healthy, civil discourse isstill a thing and kids don't
have to endure active shooterdrills.
The bottom line is that moreAmericans than ever aren't just
questioning who's in office.
They're questioning whether thewhole system still works for
them, and increasingly, theanswer is no.
(12:48):
Of course, political dramaisn't the only thing sending
Americans to Google phrases likecheap countries to live in.
Another major factor is money,because in America right now, it
feels like, unless you wereborn into tech wealth, your best
bet for financial security iswinning the lottery and marrying
rich, and I mean both.
Housing is out of control,healthcare costs astronomical,
(13:13):
education is budget busting andchildcare can cost more than a
mortgage and wages Not growing.
Over the past 20 years, thecost of living has soared, while
incomes, especiallymiddle-class incomes, have
stagnated.
A recent study by the PrincetonReview found that over 60% of
millennials in Gen Z believethey will never be able to
(13:34):
afford a home.
This isn't just pessimism, it'smath.
In Los Angeles, the median homeprice is around $900,000, which
is about 12 times the medianincome In San Francisco.
The median price is $1.3million In New York City.
Good luck finding a one-bedroomfor under $3,500 a month.
(13:54):
And it's not just the bigcities anymore.
Places like Austin, boise andeven mid-sized towns across the
country have seen massive realestate spikes pricing out locals
.
Compared to previousgenerations, it's a nightmare.
In the 1970s, a home cost abouttwo and a half times the median
household income.
Today it's six to 10 times that.
(14:16):
And even if you do somehowmanage to scrape together enough
for a home, there are stilltowering property taxes,
maintenance costs, massivemortgage interest rates and
endless upkeep.
So no wonder people are lookingelsewhere, because when you
compare US housing prices tohousing abroad, the difference
really is jaw-dropping.
(14:36):
In Portugal, you can still buya charming home in the
countryside for under $200,000,a price that might get you a
parking space in San Francisco.
Even in Lisbon, a modernone-bedroom can be found for
under $250,000 to $300,000.
And in Mexico, in cities likeMerida, oaxaca or San Miguel de
Allende, you can rent a spacioustwo-bedroom house for $500 to
(15:00):
$700 a month, and buying a home$150,000 might get you something
stunning.
This is Matt Wilson, co-founderof Under 30 Experiences and
author of the Millennial TravelGuidebook Escape More, spend
Less and Make Travel a Priorityin your Life.
Explaining the difference incost of living and lifestyle
between New York and Costa Rica.
Matt Wilson (15:21):
I don't know how I lived on $36,000 a year in New
York City, but I remember mybusiness was kicking off about
three grand a month in 2012,that I received a salary, I had
a business partner and we hadsome part-time employees and you
(15:43):
have expenses, etc.
And we had some part-timeemployees and you have expenses,
et cetera.
So we had a six-figure businessgoing, but we were only taking
$36,000 a year and I realizedvery quickly that, okay, get rid
of this apartment.
At the time it was $3,200 amonth.
I had a roommate.
I was splitting it with anotherguy who was also in his 20s a
(16:05):
month.
I had a roommate, I wassplitting it with another guy
who was also in his 20s, and sofor that kind of rent, of course
you can.
My first apartment in Costa Ricawas $250 a month, going to the
local farmer's market and reallyeating like the locals who I
mean, if you're making $36,000,but you are going to live like
(16:26):
the locals live, and I reallymade a honest attempt at that.
Like I explained before, I waseating rice and beans and the
local produce and everythingthat they would find at the
local farmer's market and Ilived like a king, right, I paid
off my student loans that wayand, yeah, quickly I moved up to
(16:48):
the $400 apartment and that hadtwo bedrooms, I had air
conditioning and I even had hotwater on most days, like it was.
I was really living then.
Shawn (17:03):
In Chiang Mai, thailand, you can rent a sleek, modern
apartment for $400 a month andeat incredible meals for $2 to
$3.
In Medellin, colombia, a luxury, high-rise apartment with a
mountain view can cost under$1,000 a month.
And yes, you can still buy anactual house on an actual Greek
island for under $150,000.
(17:25):
Even France has a lower cost ofliving than the United States.
You might recognize this nextvoice.
Adrienne Leeds is the owner ofthe Adrienne Leeds Group, which
offers real estate services topeople relocating to France, and
she's often featured onepisodes of House Hunters
International.
Here she is explaining how theFrench cost of living stacks up
(17:45):
against the United States.
Here she is explaining how theFrench cost of living stacks up
against the United States.
Adrian Leeds (17:51):
I know you see me laughing that is because you can
live here for half of what itcosts you to live in the United
States.
Half the cost of living in theUnited States is absolutely
insane and ridiculous.
And even though France isconsidered a highly taxed
(18:12):
society, the taxes are mostlyimposed on the people who are
working here on their income.
Okay, so retirees, for example,aren't going to pay any income
tax whatsoever on their USearnings or pensions or their
dividends.
But the cost of living is sogreatly reduced because
Americans pay property taxesthat are about 10 times what
they are in France.
(18:33):
Americans live in mostlysuburbia where they have to have
cars.
Ownership and operation of carsis a very expensive ordeal.
Aaa will tell you it's $12,000to $13,000 a year to own and
operate a car.
You live in an urban area inFrance.
You don't have to have a carbecause public transportation is
fabulous.
Right, general costs likeinternet, tv, telephone in the
(19:01):
US on the average about 200 amonth, in France 35 euros a
month.
You start to compare thesethings.
Talk about health insurance.
Healthcare costs are 10 timesin the US what they are in
France.
It's literally one-tenth thecost.
And healthcare is covered inFrance up to 70%.
(19:23):
So a retiree can come from theUS andS and come to France and
cost them almost nothing for thehealth care coverage the rest
of their lives.
So you know, I tell my clientsall the time that a couple can
exist very, very well in Franceon 5,000 euros a month.
Live like kings, amazing.
Shawn (20:07):
Amazing in New York when you could own an entire house in
Portugal for less than that.
Why stay in a country wherewages don't keep up with
inflation when you could build abetter financial future abroad?
And it's not just an individualissue, it's a systemic one.
The US economy has beenstructured in a way that
prioritizes corporate profitsover worker wages, making it
harder for middle-classAmericans to get ahead, save for
the future or achieve financialindependence or even happiness.
(20:29):
Here's Adrienne Leeds againexplaining a fundamental
difference between France andthe United States in this regard
.
Adrian Leeds (20:41):
I think that capitalism is destroying America
and killing the people becausethey don't understand how
important it is for everyone tobe happy, not just the wealthy,
so this is a big thing for me.
I like the fact thatrelationships matter a lot more
than money all the time, becauseone of the things that you
(21:09):
notice when you live here iswhen you go to the boulangerie.
Your boulanger will rememberwhat kind of a baguette you like
and create a relationship withyou.
You're not just a number or aname, whereas in the States they
don't care about you.
They just want to know how muchmoney they're making off of you
.
It's not the same thing, they'renot building a relationship,
and it really makes you feellike you're a part of the
(21:32):
community and that's a big dealand it's subtle.
You don't really notice it atfirst and then after a while you
realize oh, at the cafe heknows I always want my, what
kind of coffee I'm going toorder, and it just comes without
asking for it, things like that.
And that just never happens inthe States.
Shawn (21:56):
The numbers don't lie.
If you're a middle-class earnerin the United States, the
American dream feels less like adream and more like a very
expensive fantasy.
And when you realize you couldlive better for less somewhere
else, it's hard not to wonderwhy keep fighting an uphill
battle when there are placeswhere the hill isn't quite so
steep.
(22:16):
All right, let's rip off theband-aid.
Health care, the ultimateanxiety-inducing factor for a
lot of Americans considering amove abroad.
Because here's the sad truth Inthe United States, a single
hospital stay can financiallywreck you, even if you have
what's considered good insurance.
The costs are staggering.
(22:36):
The average price of anemergency room visit is $2,600,
and that's before any tests,scans or treatments.
Giving birth a routineuncomplicated delivery averages
around $18,865 with insurance.
And if you need an appendectomy, that can run you anywhere from
(22:57):
$15,000 to $50,000, dependingon which zip code your appendix
resides in.
Americans routinely pay 3 to 10times more for prescription
drugs than people in otherdeveloped nations.
Even basic medications likeinsulin, which cost around $7
per vial in Germany, can costnearly $100 per vial in the
(23:17):
United States.
And this isn't just about a fewunlucky people.
Over half of all bankruptciesin America are linked to medical
debt, Half In the wealthiestcountry on earth.
Meanwhile, in other countriesit's a different universe.
In France, doctor visits costabout $27, hospital stays are
(23:38):
heavily subsidized andprescription meds are heavily
discounted.
In Germany, universal coverage.
Even freelancers and expats areincluded.
A standard doctor visit is freeor carries a very minimal fee.
In Spain, legal residents enjoyfree public health care and
even if you're paying cash outof pocket, most doctor visits
are around $50 to $70.
(24:00):
Canada also universal coverage,no deductibles, no co-pays.
You break your leg, you go tothe hospital, you get it fixed,
you leave, that's it.
Even countries like Portugal,new Zealand and Thailand offer
high quality health care at afraction of the US cost, with
far fewer horror stories aboutsurprise bills and financial
(24:20):
ruin.
Here's Aaron Martin againexplaining the New Zealand
health care system and his ownpersonal experience.
Aaron Martin (24:33):
So we have a government funded health care
system where you get yourtreatment through government
hospitals.
Through government hospitalsyou have your own private GP,
but often there are subsidisedfees to encourage people to go
(24:55):
to the doctor.
So, for example, you might havegovernment subsidising the fees
for a GP visit for children orfor elderly.
For example, when you are aresident visa holder, you get
full access to publicly fundedhealth services.
(25:15):
So if you need cancer treatment, if you need something done for
your eyes, if you need someform of elective surgery, things
of that nature, it is usuallydone on referral by your general
practitioner into publiclyfunded hospital services.
Now, as with most publiclyfunded health services around
(25:37):
the globe, it means there is alarge level of demand, and so
you know you will encounterwaiting times to get treatment.
So it is possible, for example,for people to carry their own
private health care insurance,which is certainly not at the
eye watering levels that peoplein the US experience, where they
(25:58):
might take, for example, apolicy that gives them the
ability to have elective surgerydone through private hospitals
in New Zealand.
But by far the majority of NewZealanders will usually rely on
government-funded healthservices and maybe have some
(26:20):
form of backup medical insuranceto partially cover them for
some aspects of their healthcare.
Publicly funded health services, from my experience, are
particularly good.
If treatment is needed urgently, you usually get treated
urgently.
I'll give you a personalexample.
I had a run-in with cancer justafter my 41st birthday and I
(26:48):
got the result through thepublicly funded health system
because they'd done a biopsy.
I was admitted and receiving myfirst round of chemotherapy
within three days and they were,I have to say, exceptionally
good exceptionally good.
Shawn (27:13):
This all raises a massive , unsettling question If the US
is supposedly the pinnacle ofwealth and progress, why are so
many of its citizens terrifiedof getting sick For millions?
The realization is simple theycan either spend their lives
rationing medicine and avoidingdoctors, or they can move abroad
and access the basic humanright to health care without the
constant threat of bankruptcy.
And when you frame it like that, it's less a radical life
(27:35):
decision and more basic survivalstrategy.
Let's talk about somethingequally soul-crushing the grind.
Because, let's be honest,americans don't just work.
We grind, we hustle.
We proudly glorify exhaustionlike it's a competitive sport.
The average American works about2,080 hours per year.
(27:55):
That's hundreds more thanworkers in Germany, france or
the Netherlands.
55% of Americans don't use alltheir vacation days, even when
they have them, and the US isthe only industrialized nation
that doesn't guarantee paidvacation or paid parental leave
at the federal level.
And it's not making us richeror happier.
(28:15):
Studies show that Americansexperience higher levels of
stress, anxiety, burnout anddepression than workers in
countries that prioritizework-life balance.
And, even worse, countries likeGermany and the Netherlands,
where people work fewer hours,actually have higher
productivity per hour than theUS.
So we're working more, livingless and somehow still falling
(28:40):
behind.
And when it comes time forretirement, the finish line just
keeps moving.
The average American retirementage has crept up to 65 to 67
years old, compared to 60 oryounger in much of Europe, and
with Social Security's futurelooking shaky, many Americans
are planning to work well intotheir 70s, if they're lucky
(29:00):
enough to keep working at all.
Meanwhile, in much of the world, they have a very different
philosophy.
This is Tim Leffel,award-winning travel writer and
author of the books the World'sCheapest Destinations Travel.
Tim Leffel (29:19):
Writing 2.0, and A Better Life for Half the Price,
explaining this phenomenon.
So there's all these differentreasons that people have for
moving abroad and some of them,you know, it's just a quality of
life issue.
You know, once you get out ofthe US you kind of breathe this
big sigh of relief because youget away from 24-hour news, you
get away from the workaholicattitudes, you know, you get
(29:39):
away from the stress and you'reoften healthier too.
Because you're walking more,you're not, you know it.
Because you're walking more,you're not, you know, it's not
such a car culture.
You're eating better becausefruit and vegetables are not so
expensive.
It's easier to eat organic in alot of places, especially
Europe.
I mean, that's kind of the norminstead of the exception.
Shawn (30:02):
In Sweden, the concept of lagom just enough permeates the
culture.
Overworking isn't a badge ofhonor, it's seen as inefficient.
Workers typically get 25 to 30paid vacation days per year, and
in France, full-time employeesget a minimum of five weeks of
paid vacation annually, plusholidays.
And thanks to the 2017 Right toDisconnect law, companies can't
(30:26):
legally expect workers toanswer emails outside of work
hours.
I mean, imagine that, notfeeling pressured to check your
email at 10pm or work onweekends.
In Costa Rica, the nationalmotto, pura Vida, is about
prioritizing well-being,community and enjoying life, and
they don't just say it, theylive it.
Costa Rica ranks among thehappiest countries in the world,
(30:49):
largely because of itslaid-back lifestyle, strong
social networks and focus onhealth and nature.
Many expats say they moved toCosta Rica to escape stress,
long work hours and financialpressures, and found themselves
actually enjoying life for thefirst time.
These are American expats,zanta and Dana, who have made
the move to Costa Rica,explaining this Pura Vida
(31:12):
lifestyle.
Xanthe and Dana (31:15):
Our culture is very go, go, go, go go.
You know fast food.
You go to the restaurant,everything.
You really do have to slow itdown.
They don't live like that and Ithink they it would be kind of
offensive to them like what?
Like why they're, they'rereally embrace that Pura Vida
(31:37):
culture.
So, like you know, at arestaurant that you don't expect
, like you're standing there,you know you might not have a
host like run up to you and belike, oh, we'll get your thing.
I mean it just might be aminute.
You know, same thing with yourdrinks, with your food.
Like you know there's no, thetime here is different.
Like everything goes withsunrise, sunset and it doesn't
(32:00):
really change.
We don't have any time changehere.
We don't have any time changehere.
And you're close enough to theequator.
Like you know, sun comes upabout five 30 and the sun sets
about five 30.
Like it's people really kind ofwork and play around that.
Like it's you know, and it'sit's one of those places like
(32:22):
still at sunset people drive outevery single day to the beach
and or walk out to see thesunset come flying in cars.
Daniel Tostado (32:32):
I saw one last night just come flying in.
Xanthe and Dana (32:34):
That was great because it was like, look, they
made the sunset.
Yeah, it's different.
And like, coming from like Ilove the beach, I love to surf,
every day I'm out there.
It kind of reminds me of likewhat California must have been
like a long time ago.
Like all the beaches in CostaRica are public On Sundays, like
a lot of the locals come fromSan Jose and they've got grills
(32:58):
and music and fun and coolersyeah it's called the People's
Beach and you don't pay forparking anywhere.
Like you know, you can't even beclose to a California beach
without having to pay.
You know parking and all that.
So it's very, it's just verydifferent.
Shawn (33:21):
Spain takes work-life balance to another level.
The traditional siesta culturestill exists in some parts of
Spain, allowing workers to takea long midday break to eat, rest
or spend time with familybefore returning to work.
The standard work week istypically 35 to 40 hours, and
long lunches or coffee breaksare considered normal.
The cost of living is lower,meaning people don't have to
(33:44):
work excessive hours just tocover basic needs.
Spain isn't just about lesswork.
It's about valuing life outsideof work.
This is Karen McCann again, whohas written numerous books
about her travels and dividesher time between Spain and San
Francisco, explaining thisunique Spanish approach to time
(34:06):
and community.
Karen McCann (34:12):
You know, you read that they have later lunch and
later dinner and you kind of getyour head around that.
But the whole attitude towardstime is different.
The idea in Spain is if youbump into a friend on the street
, you go and have a coffee.
You always make time.
You make time for your friendsand family in a way that
Americans really don't anymore.
It's just built into theculture they seem.
(34:35):
In Spain, they seem to have theidea that they have more time
than they could possibly use.
They are very generous with itand it's so refreshing.
When I'm in the States, if Iwanna have dinner with somebody,
I have to make an appointmenttwo weeks in advance, even with
my sisters, whereas in Spain weoften bump into somebody on the
street my husband and I andthey'll go hey, what are you
(34:56):
doing tonight?
And the next thing we knowwe're all going off and having
dinner together.
It's just a different attitudetowards time.
Shawn (35:05):
For many Americans, hearing about these cultural
norms is like hearing aboutunicorns a world where work
doesn't consume your life, wheretaking off isn't seen as
slacking, where weekends areactually for relaxing.
It sounds almost suspiciouslygood, and it raises yet another
uncomfortable question.
If other countries have figuredout that happiness, health and
(35:26):
balance matter just as much asGDP, why are we still glorifying
burnout like it's some kind ofvirtue?
All right, so maybe it's timefor a reality check Before you
start packing your bags andpracticing your French.
Let's talk about the part thatInstagram travel bloggers don't
always tell you.
Moving abroad is not a magicescape hatch.
(35:47):
Yes, it can be life-changing,yes, it can be wonderful, but it
also comes with a unique set ofchallenges that no amount of
wishful thinking can erase.
So let's break down a few ofthem.
Getting legal residency inanother country is not like
joining a rewards program.
You're going to face probablyquite a bit of paperwork, income
requirements that aren't alwayssuper clear and changing rules
(36:10):
that can leave you scramblinghalfway through your application
.
For example, portugal's popularD7 visa, which used to be an
easy option for retirees andremote workers, recently
tightened income standards.
Thailand's visa options forlong-term stayers have
fluctuated so much and so oftenthat even immigration lawyers
can lose track.
And in Japan, unless you have along-term employment contract
(36:34):
or you're marrying a citizen,your chances of permanent
residency are roughly the sameas winning the Powerball.
You'll need to budget time,patience and probably a little
cash for legal help along theway.
There are also culturaladjustments.
You might think you're preparedfor life abroad.
If you've watched a few YouTubevideos.
You've learned how to saywhere's the bathroom in Spanish.
But trust me, culture shock isreal.
(36:55):
Even simple stuff getscomplicated Paying utility bill,
finding the right doctor,understanding when stores are
open or why they randomly closeon Wednesdays.
This is Heather Mason, creatorof the Two Summers blog,
explaining her experience tryingto set up a bank account in
South Africa.
Heather Mason (37:16):
There's a lot of red tape around banking in South
Africa, I think, becausehistorically there has been a
lot more corruption and fraud.
Well, I say more, there's a lotof corruption and fraud in the
banking system here.
So it's actually very hard toget a bank account, and I think
I lived here for three yearsbefore I was able to get my own
bank, maybe even four.
(37:36):
It took me a long time, whichwas very difficult.
I mean, I spent a lot of timepaying my rent and bills in cash
because I literally couldn'tget a bank account until because
here you can't get a bankaccount until you have a proper
visa, and it took me quite a fewyears to straighten that out.
So and I you know you can't getif you have a spouse visa, for
example, you can't open a bankaccount.
(37:58):
You can only use your spouse'sbank account.
So anyway, I finally got one andand I I am very careful to make
sure you know cause, if yourvisa, if you, if your visa
lapses, for example, you have abank account, the bank will
freeze your account.
So you really have to stay ontop of that and make sure your
visa is up to date and thatyou've reported.
You know all of yourinformation to the bank at all
(38:19):
times.
And then cell phone yeah, allthe things that you need in
addition to that, like cellphone, contract, health
insurance, all those things.
They're also kind of hard toget if you don't have a bank
account.
Shawn (38:35):
In Spain, stores still shut down in the afternoon.
In Japan, trying to understandrigid social etiquette can feel
insurmountable.
In Germany, cash is king andcredit cards aren't always
accepted.
And then there's thebureaucracy.
If you think US governmentwebsites are bad, wait until you
try to get a residency permitin a country where the forms are
(38:55):
in four languages, none of themyours.
These frustrations are part ofthe journey, but if you aren't
prepared, they can quickly turnthat idyllic expat dream into a
daily grind of confusion andmild rage.
Here's something else that a lotof people don't realize until
they're staring down April 15th,the first year after a move.
(39:15):
The US taxes you, no matterwhere you live.
The United States is one ofonly two countries in the world
the other is Eritrea, goodcompany that taxes its citizens
on worldwide income.
So even if you move to Portugal, thailand, costa Rica or
anywhere, you still have to filea US tax return every year,
(39:36):
report your foreign bankaccounts if they total over
$10,000, and potentially paytaxes depending on your income,
credits and deductions.
Here's David Lesperance,founder of Lesperance Associates
, a group of international taxand immigration advisors,
outlining some of the taxrealities Americans need to
consider when moving abroad.
David Lesperance (39:58):
A US citizen, even if they move to a
jurisdiction which has no tax,will still owe US federal tax
and still have US financialreporting on things like foreign
bank account reports, fbars andmutual funds, pfics and a
variety of different things, ifthey're going to be moving to a
(40:20):
jurisdiction which has a taxregime.
Many countries do, which youcan, either because they have a
specific regime.
For example, we'll look atEurope.
The UK is just getting rid of aregime they had called the
remittance or non-dom system,but Ireland, cyprus and Malta
still have that system.
Other countries such as Italy,greece and Switzerland have said
(40:45):
we're going to have a lump sum.
So if you move to Italy, it's200,000 a year euros 200,000
euros.
Whether you make a dollar or200 million, it's 200,000 a year
euros 200,000 euros.
Whether you make a dollar or200 million, it's 200,000.
One of the other advantages ofa lump sum jurisdiction is the
tax becomes a line item.
You also don't have to pay youraccountant for complex returns.
(41:09):
You also don't have to look atthis very complex tax return as
you sign it and think toyourself gee, I hope my
accountant got it right.
Other countries such as, forexample, canada they have some
pre-immigration tax planning.
They may also have differentthings, like Canada, for example
, doesn't have an estate tax ora gift tax.
(41:29):
So it's looking at all thedifferent regimes and how they
interact.
If the person is giving uptheir US citizenship there is
some, depending on what theirnet worth is and generally
unless they have a specificexemption to this regime the
clients who would considereconomically an expatriation
(41:50):
they will trigger an exit tax, ataxation on unrealized capital
gain.
There is an exemption it's alittle over $900,000 right now,
but they pay the top federalrate on everything above that
and there's also an inheritancetax.
So there's some complexplanning that we can do
beforehand.
But they've just jumped out ofthe US tax pot.
(42:11):
They want to make sure theydon't jump into another tax
buyer so they may move, forexample, to one of the various
jurisdictions what are normallythought of as high tax countries
, but on a lower controlled taxbasis because they have these
special regimes.
Shawn (42:30):
Now there are treaties and exclusions that can help you
avoid double taxation, like theForeign Earned Income Exclusion
, feie, but the paperwork iscomplex enough that you might
need a specialized internationaltax advisor.
Good news, though We'll diginto all the tax realities in
much more detail in an upcomingepisode, but for now, just know
(42:50):
moving abroad does not meanbreaking up with the IRS.
But for now, just know movingabroad does not mean breaking up
with the IRS.
Also, if your plan is to workfrom anywhere as a digital nomad
, you'll need to double-checkthe rules, because not every
country smiles upon laptopwarriors working under tourist
visas.
Spain and Portugal are two ofmany countries that offer
special digital nomad visas, butthey come with income minimums
(43:15):
and application hurdles, eachdifferent for each country.
Thailand doesn't allow remotework on a tourist visa at all,
and people have been deportedfor violating it.
Japan has very limited pathwaysfor freelancers and remote
workers.
The bottom line here is if youplan to work abroad, make sure
you understand what's legal andwhat could get you a one-way
ticket home.
So, after all that, should youstay or should you go?
(43:51):
The answer is, like mostimportant things in life,
complicated.
Moving abroad can belife-changing, financially
liberating, spirituallyrefreshing and, yes, sometimes
even wildly fun.
But it also comes withpaperwork, language barriers,
culture shock, a steep learningcurve.
It's not a fairy tale.
It's not a permanent vacation.
(44:12):
It's real life, just somewhereelse, and like any real life, it
comes with trade-offs.
You might save money, livehealthier and feel freer abroad,
but you'll also need to adapt,learn and be willing to start
over in ways, big and small.
If you're flexible, curious andready to embrace change, leaving
America could be the bestdecision you ever make.
(44:33):
And if you're now thinking okayand ready to embrace change,
leaving America could be thebest decision you ever make.
And if you're now thinking okay, maybe this is for me, but
where would I even go?
That's exactly where we'reheaded in our next episode, when
we'll be talking about some ofthe easiest and most popular
escapes for Americans.
We're going to cover the mostpopular visa programs, how much
you realistically need to livecomfortably and some of the
(44:55):
hidden challenges to making themove, challenges that just a
little preparation can mitigate.
This is Leaving America,because sometimes home isn't
where you started.
Thank you.
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