June 29, 2025 • 52 mins
Christina Korpi, fresh out of college with degrees in Spanish and psychology, arrived in Honduras with practical preparations but couldn't anticipate how profoundly this Central American nation would challenge her American perspective.
The cultural adjustments began immediately. Despite Spanish fluency from previous stays in Spain and Mexico, Honduras presented its own linguistic nuances. More surprising were social expectations—Christina packed practical clothes for the tropical climate but discovered Hondurans prioritized style and formal dress despite the heat. Even medical norms differed dramatically, exemplified by her startling experience with a dentist who diagnosed eight non-existent cavities.
What emerges most powerfully through Christina's story is the stark contrast between American individualism and Honduran community-orientation. Where Americans schedule playdates, Hondurans gather spontaneously in communal spaces. Where Americans isolate in climate-controlled homes, Hondurans live predominantly outdoors. Where Americans buy fully-constructed homes through mortgages, Hondurans traditionally purchased land first, then built room-by-room as finances allowed—though Christina notes with concern how American-style credit systems have increasingly penetrated Honduras in recent years.
We also discuss the ethical dimensions of American expatriation. With average Hondurans earning $600-700 monthly while American retirees live on several thousand, economic disparities become starkly visible in places like Roatan, where luxury developments for foreigners neighbor impoverished communities. Christina emphasizes awareness and engagement with local economic realities when considering relocation.
For those contemplating international moves, Christina's advice centers on openness rather than expectation. Success abroad requires genuine engagement with cultural differences—not attempting to recreate American standards. Three years in Honduras taught her that what appears as American convenience often masks disconnection, while what might seem like Honduran simplicity fosters deeper community bonds and authentic joy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Lesperance (00:06):
Hello, my name is David Westbrunst and in the
over 35 years since I was calledto the bar in 1990, I've been
advising American and globalfamilies on the tax and
immigration issues involved indesigning and executing
international backup plans.
Along with my legal expertise,I also draw my experience as a
(00:26):
border official while in lawschool, acquiring lineage
citizenships in severalcountries for myself and
numerous family members andmoving my own family overseas
three times.
Unlike most advisors in thisarea, I do not take commissions
from third parties such asgovernments, fund managers or
real estate developers.
This allows my clients to haveconfidence that my advice is
(00:49):
unconflicted and agnostic andalways in their own best
interest.
Shawn (01:04):
Welcome to Leaving America, the podcast.
For those of you who look atthe crumbling bridges, the
politicians quoting scriptureinstead of science, or the
rising sea levels lapping atyour front door and think
there's got to be other options,today's episode is the first of
a few throughout the series inwhich I, along with the help of
my partner in crime, my bestmate, my husband Pavel, are
(01:27):
interviewing some friends ofours that have actually lived
abroad about their experiences,how they did it, what surprised
them, how they adjusted, whatthey do differently.
Kind of the sky's the limit forthe conversations.
Hey, pavel, welcome to LeavingAmerica.
Hi, sean.
So last week we focused onLatin America, some Central and
(01:48):
South American countries thatoffer some great opportunities
for Americans wanting to moveabroad.
What countries have you visitedin Central and South America?
Pavel (01:57):
I've been to Costa Rica, mexico and Peru.
Shawn (02:01):
I think a lot of people assume that Latin America is a
monolith.
Like all the countries are verysimilar.
Did you find them to be similar?
Not at all.
Pavel (02:10):
Not at all.
They're all distinctivelydifferent, and I loved the
non-Americanized places the most, and that is Peru.
Shawn (02:25):
So Peru is your favorite?
I would say so, yeah, did youfind that?
So I've only been to Mexico andPanama, one of the countries
I've never been to.
Well, I haven't been to quite afew of them, but one of them is
Honduras, and I and you'venever been to Honduras, yeah,
but one of our friends hasChristina Corpy, and she lived
there for three years.
So she's the that's who we'retalking to today about her
(02:48):
experience living there.
Pavel (02:50):
Yeah, when I was growing up, there was this song about
Honduras and it was quitepopular.
David Lesperance (02:57):
Let me.
Pavel (02:58):
Google the lyrics, because there was something
funny about the lyrics.
It's a Russian song.
Yeah, all day you've paid me noattention, not a single word.
You said to me.
Honduras is in ruin and decay,political collapse in the
country.
Come to me, come to me, I loveyou, I'm yours, honduras is on
(03:20):
fire.
Honduras is on fire.
There's nothing in the stores.
Oh my God, that's outdated.
It seemed like they, yeah, theytried to like.
Yeah, it's like a supportive, asong, supportive of Honduras.
Shawn (03:39):
Yeah, I think it was very catchy.
I'm sure it was.
I get the impression that maybeHonduras has changed a little
bit.
Pavel (03:47):
Well yeah, I know that it did.
Shawn (03:51):
We can talk about life in Honduras with Christina and see
if it maps onto this song wellor not.
Pavel (03:57):
Yeah Well, where are your hosts Pavel and Sean?
Shawn (04:01):
And if you've ever watched a school band to kill a
mockingbird and thought thisfeels less like 2025 and more
like 1925, you're in the rightplace To stay updated on the
latest episodes.
Follow, like and share LeavingAmerica on the Deep Dive with
Sean podcast feed.
Wherever you get your podcasts,and if you're already living in
(04:24):
Honduras or you're just tryingto figure out how you'll survive
without Amazon Prime, we wantto hear from you.
Email us at deepdivewithshawnat gmailcom.
Pavel (04:34):
All right, pack your bags and cats and dogs and babies.
This is Living America.
Your cat in the bag, okay, yessir P cat in the bag.
Shawn (04:45):
Okay, yes, sir Posh, you can stop that.
Pavel (04:50):
Why that could be our dynamic.
Shawn (04:53):
No, I don't want that to be our dynamic.
Pavel (04:56):
Yes, sir.
Shawn (04:59):
Okay, here we go.
Hey, Christina.
Christina Korpi (05:02):
Hey Sean, hey Christina.
Shawn (05:03):
Hey, christina hey.
Christina Korpi (05:03):
Sean hey, christina hey Pavel.
Shawn (05:06):
So we wanted to talk to you because we're doing this
podcast Leaving America aboutpeople that maybe are
considering moving to anothercountry outside of the States,
and one component of thatpodcast is talking to some
people that we know that havelived outside of the States to
talk a little bit about theirexperience you have.
So why don't you tell us, maybefirst off, where you've lived
(05:28):
outside the US?
Christina Korpi (05:30):
I've lived outside of the US on three
different occasions.
First, I studied abroad when Iwas in college.
I went to Granada, spain, whichis in Southern Spain, and I was
there for about four months.
And then, after that experience, the next summer I spent in
Mexico and I was there for aboutfour months.
And then, after that experience, the next summer, I spent in
Mexico and I was there for twomonths.
And then, after I graduatedfrom under my undergraduate, I
(05:53):
moved to Honduras and I livedthere for just over three years.
Pavel (05:57):
Why Honduras?
Christina Korpi (05:59):
Well, I had.
When I was graduating, Imajored in Spanish and
psychology.
And when I was graduating, Imajored in Spanish and
psychology.
And when I was graduating, Iwanted to work with children and
I wanted to work in aSpanish-speaking country, and so
I was looking for programs thatI could go abroad, and I
(06:24):
originally was considering thePeace Corps, but at the time the
Peace Corps sounded like a longcommitment because it was I
believe it's a 24 monthcommitment and I thought that
sounded pretty long.
And so I found an organizationthat took volunteers for 12
months, and so I applied forthat organization and I got
offered a position in Honduras.
Shawn (06:41):
It sounds like maybe the organization took care of this
for you and it makes sense thatthe school went for you as well
when you were in Spain, but doyou remember having to do
anything related to the visaprocess?
Christina Korpi (06:54):
Well, when I went to Honduras with Spain I
don't think I I actually don'tremember Because I, yeah, I
think my school did most of thatfor me.
I don't think, and and I wondernow if it was Spain allows you
to be there for six monthswithout a visa.
But I was not.
I don't believe I had a visawhen I was in Spain, but when I
(07:14):
went to Honduras, we definitelydid need to get residency,
because if you're there forlonger than 90 days, you have to
have residency, and so theorganization that I was working
for was affiliated with theCatholic Church, and so, through
the Catholic Church in Honduras, we were able to get residency
for our length of stay, and ithad to be renewed yearly.
(07:35):
And so I got residence for myfirst year there, and then, when
I stayed additional years, Ijust had to renew my residency
each year.
Pavel (07:44):
So it's not like a permanent residency.
Christina Korpi (07:48):
No, it was more or less like a working permit
type residency, and so I had to,each year, provide evidence
that I was still with the sameorganization and still doing the
same work.
Shawn (08:01):
Did you choose Honduras, or was that chosen for you?
Christina Korpi (08:04):
Well, when I applied, the organization that I
worked for is called NuestrosPequeños Hermanos and they have
children's homes in ninedifferent countries in Latin
America, and so when I appliedto the organization, I indicated
that I would basically bewilling to go to any of the nine
countries.
But they did have you listpreferences, and so I believe
(08:28):
Honduras was on my list of thethree preferences and that was
where I got offered a position.
So I guess there was, I hadsome say in it, but also it was
just where the vacancies werethat you got offered positions
at.
Shawn (08:45):
Moving overseas is not a small thing and I think at
different stages in our life,the process of doing that
probably looks a bit differently.
I imagine that if you wereplanning to make a move overseas
now, you would plan verydifferently than you did when
you were just out of university.
But when you did and I'mespecially thinking about
Honduras, because that ended upbeing a three-year stay, so
(09:06):
that's a pretty significantperiod of time how did you
prepare to make an internationalmove like that?
Christina Korpi (09:13):
Yeah, I think originally, when I went to my
first time abroad, when I wentto Spain, I was minoring in
Spanish language and, afterliving in Spain for a couple of
months, I decided that I wasreally interested in the
language and in becoming morefluent and even understanding
(09:35):
cultures of various Spanishspeaking countries in a better
and more intimate way, and sothat was really the impetus of
trying to live abroad and workin a better and more intimate
way.
And so I um, that was really theimpetus of trying to live
abroad and work in a Spanishspeaking country.
And then, um, in preparing forthat, I tried to understand as
much as I could about thecountry that I was going to, and
(09:57):
then also thinking about youknow, when you're going, when
you're moving somewhere for ayear but you're going on an
airplane, you have to considerwhat you're going to bring with
you and how much you're going totake and what makes the most
sense to bring with you.
And I think a lot of that isvery practical, like I need to
have appropriate clothing forthe weather and the culture, and
(10:17):
I need to make sure that I'mthat I have my basics covered
when it comes to medicine, whenit comes to medical insurance,
and so trying to really packappropriately and then also make
sure that I had the appropriatecoverage, whether with medicine
or with insurance, those wereall part of preparing, and I
think it's hard to pack up Imean trying to pack as lightly
(10:40):
as possible while also movingabroad.
I think I ended up packing withone checked bag and one
backpack and then a carry-on,and trying to pack your life up
into a relatively small spacecan be a difficult task, and so
preparation took a while to tryto just determine what I was
going to bring and how I wasgoing to move my life for a long
(11:01):
period and into a small space.
Pavel (11:04):
Was it exciting, or were you anxious, or like what were
you feeling?
Christina Korpi (11:10):
I think a little bit of both.
I think, mostly excited, Ithink at that age too, I was
young, I didn't have manyresponsibilities at the time and
I was just kind of like it waslike going to your first real
job when you're not in school atthe same time, and so there was
a freeing element to it andalso an excitement about the
(11:33):
change in environment, but alsoan anxiety about being in a
different country, being in adifferent culture, being in a
different language, being with anew group of people and a new
community, being with a newgroup of people and a new
community.
And so I think all of that wascombined into kind of an anxious
excitement.
Pavel (11:51):
So you didn't know anybody when you were moving
over there, right, it was justthe place that you were.
Christina Korpi (12:08):
I actually did know one person, which was
somewhat of a coincidence.
So when I was graduating fromcollege, one of my friends from
high school who I didn't go tothe same college with, but we
were both considering kind ofthis abroad experience, and so
when I started applying I sharedabout the organization with her
and so she ended up applying aswell and we both got offered
positions in Honduras, and sothat was really helpful because
I had a friend that I wastraveling with and so some of
(12:31):
the anxiety about like going tosome but someplace entirely
alone was there was a buffer tothat, because I did know
somebody that I was travelingwith, but she ended up we were
there together for a year andthen she ended up going back
home and she went to med schoolafter that and I stayed longer
after she left, but I did havethat camaraderie as I moved down
(12:54):
there.
Shawn (12:56):
That's nice, that makes a big difference.
Christina Korpi (12:58):
Definitely, it definitely made it easier to
adjust.
Shawn (13:02):
So you spoke and speak Spanish and you went to a
Spanish speaking country.
So that probably goes a longway towards.
I think when we talk aboutthings like culture shock,
people immediately think about adifferent language, but I
assume that going from theUnited States to a Latin
American country like Honduras,you probably did experience some
type of culture shock.
Christina Korpi (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think that there were still
surprises, there were stilldifferences that I wasn't
anticipating, but I think thatit makes it a lot easier when
you well, and even with thelanguage after living in Spain
and living in Mexico, I thinkeach Spanish speaking country
has a very different accent andit took me longer than I would
(13:42):
have expected to kind of adjustto the Honduran accent and
really be able to communicate atthe level that I felt like I
should and could, and so I thinkthere was some adjustment with
that and a little bit ofsurprise and feeling like, oh
gosh, I'm lost in thisconversation, but I know that I
know Spanish.
So that took a couple of monthsand I think I was also.
(14:04):
I mean talking about packingand trying to move your life to
a new country, taking as littleas possible.
I think there was.
There's a lot of practicalitythat goes into packing of like
okay, what are the necessitiesthat I need?
And that's looking, like I said, at both the weather and the
culture.
But I think once I got there, Iwas kind of surprised and a
little unprepared for the way,like, just like we do here,
(14:30):
people have a lot of style,people dress up, people like to
wear nice.
I think in some ways, peopletend to dress up even more in
Honduras than they do in Seattle, for example, and so I think I
felt a little bit unprepared interms of having accessories and
outfits that I felt matched thelevel of style that locals had.
(14:53):
And so I think that was anadjustment that I made once I
got there, of kind of like, oh,I brought all this very
practical stuff and it wasappropriate attire because it's
a very warm country and climate,but people don't especially
women don't really wear shortsvery often, for example.
Um, so I didn't bring a lot ofshorts, but I also didn't expect
(15:13):
people to wear jeans as much asthey do, because jeans here at
home it's like you don'tnecessarily wear jeans in the
heat of the summer, um, but inhonduras they wear jeans pretty
much year round, and so some ofthose things that were cultural
or just stylish that I didn'texpect, that I adjusted to once
I got there.
(15:34):
And I think the other adjustmentwas in kind of the approach to
the medical system.
I think that was maybe one ofmy anxieties.
Going down is just like, okay,how do I make sure that I have
medical insurance while I'mthere and how do I make sure
that I'm that, if anything wereto happen, that I would have the
appropriate coverage to get thetype of care that I need or
expect?
(15:54):
And yeah, they.
They just have a very differenthealthcare system down there
and, luckily and thank goodness,nothing nothing terrible or
emergency ever happened to mewhile I was there, but but I
think that was that was one ofthe anxieties of like, okay, how
do I make sure that I have theeverything that I need to get
(16:16):
the type of care that I need ifanything were to happen?
Pavel (16:19):
Did you ever have to go to a doctor there.
Christina Korpi (16:22):
No, I actually I went a couple of times with to
accompany friends to the doctor.
But I am trying to think, but Idon't think for myself.
I don't think I ever had to goto a doctor.
I did go to a dentist once andthe dentist told me um, the
dentist told me that I had eightcavities and she was like do
(16:45):
you want me to fill them?
And I was like no, it's okay, Ithink I'll get a second opinion
.
And I actually had a tripscheduled to come home and I
went to the dentist when I gothome and the dentist was like
Nope, your teeth look great.
And I was like well, I just gottold in Honduras that I had
eight cavities and they werelike, oh no, that's wrong.
So I'm cavities.
(17:07):
And they were like, oh no,that's wrong.
So I'm glad that I, I'm gladthat I didn't choose to get
those cavities filled, because Ithink they would have just been
, uh, unnecessary fillings wasthere a lot of that type of
experience where people likelike providing the incorrect
information or like cheating youin a way I think, I mean, I
mean, I think that the that moreso like, uh, showing up as a
(17:28):
white person umthere was a lot of expectation
that I had more money to give,and so there would be times,
like on the local buses or goingto the market, where I might be
charged more than um somebodywho was before or after me, and
learning to navigate that anddetermine when it was
(17:49):
appropriate to say, you know,that's not the going rate,
versus maybe paying a couple oflimpitas extra because that was
the appropriate thing to do.
I think there was some nuancethere and kind of determining
when it was worth it to to argueor barter a price versus when
to just pay it.
Shawn (18:07):
Aval, you moved to a country that didn't speak the
language you grew up speaking.
Did you find that particularlydifficult?
Pavel (18:16):
Oh, yeah, I mean like I spoke American English before
moving to New Zealand but when Igot my first job and we had on
one of the first team meetings,I was sitting completely
stressed because I could notunderstand half of what
(18:36):
everybody was talking aboutbecause of their thick accent
and a different slang, like someof the words that they were
using.
I was like what?
Like oh, mean, that's mean, andI'm like that's not me, I'm not
being mean, but like it meanssomething else over there.
(18:58):
So, uh, yeah, definitely it.
I think it took.
It took about half a year or soto get used to it.
But yeah, I mean, you just getthrough it by continuing
immersing yourself in thatculture and not sticking around
(19:19):
with just like you know, Russianfriends or just your native
speakers?
you have to go out there and bewith locals, right?
Christina Korpi (19:29):
Did that help you.
Yeah, I think that's one of thehurdles to get over.
I think that there's definitelysome people who kind of shut
down when they experience thatand they're just like, oh no,
I'm going to say that I feelembarrassed or I'm going to say
the wrong thing, but I thinkthat the people that actually
(19:51):
are able to assimilate or learnare the ones that lean in and
say like, okay, how am I goingto figure this out so that I do
it right the next time, or sayit right the next time, or I
understand it right the nexttime?
And that's the way that you cankind of get better and pick up
on things.
There were definitely other inthe program that I worked with.
There were definitely othervolunteers that sometimes would
shut down and you would just see, like over the course of months
(20:12):
and months and months, they hada hard time picking up on the
language or or being able tocommunicate, versus people who
would kind of lean into thatdiscomfort and make a lot more
progress in a shorter period oftime.
Pavel (20:27):
You just have to get out of your bubble.
Christina Korpi (20:30):
Exactly.
Shawn (20:31):
So I think, rightly or wrongly you know, Honduras
specifically could be viewed asa developing country and that
maybe it has some dangerouscomponents to it.
What was your experience withthat, Christina?
And maybe even considering thefact that at the time you're a
single woman, if that was anyconcern that you had living
(20:52):
there?
Christina Korpi (20:52):
Yeah, I think that sometimes I look back and
think like, oh man, I maybedidn't consider that enough.
I think, being young andfreshly out of college and kind
of living just being bold inthat way, I think I didn't
really consider some of thedangers in the same way that I
(21:15):
do today, especially now that Ihave a young child and we still
go back to Honduras frequently,and I think I feel very
differently about the dangersnow.
Even like riding public buses Ihear now about situations in
which public buses are held upor robbed or things that happen
in the country on a regularbasis now hit me in a different
(21:37):
way than it did when I was young, and when I was young I kind of
felt like, well, I'll just takeit as it comes.
And now, maybe more mature, I'mkind of like, okay, how do I
make sure that I'm safe or we'resafe in this situation and what
does that look like?
And so I think I was maybe alittle bolder when I was young
and I didn't really worry aboutit as much as I might today.
(21:59):
The Peace Corps had pulled outof Honduras.
I think it was the year before,I think in 2010,.
After there was a governmentalcoup and the Peace Corps pulled
out, and so I think that was theyear before I moved there, and
so I think now I would considerall of that very differently
than I did then, or I didn'treally consider the weight of
(22:23):
that as much as I might now.
Shawn (22:26):
I think I'm starting to get a better picture of why they
had so many openings inHonduras, but the flip side of
that is that you can still havea good experience even in places
that have a hard scrabble sideto them.
So what were some of the maybeunexpected pleasant surprises
(22:46):
that you had living abroad?
Christina Korpi (22:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think just the pace of life.
I think America is, or theUnited States is, very much.
We grind here, we work a lot,people talk a lot about
work-life balance but thereisn't a whole lot of balance and
I think being in a country thatfelt just like the pace of life
really was more take it as itcomes and be present in the
moment.
The work schedule was maybe alittle bit less demanding I mean
(23:14):
, I still had a schedule, but itwas much more flexible and I
think, just the joy.
I think, uh, being in a countryand a culture where maybe there
isn't a whole lot of stuff,people aren't as wealthy, um, as
they may be in in other placesaround the world, but they just
have, um, uh joy in life thatthat sometimes feels lacking in
(23:42):
our demanding day-to-day that welive in the United States.
I think that that was apleasant surprise and also a
very welcome change in adifferent perspective on how to
live on a day-to-day basis.
How to live on a day-to-daybasis.
Were people generally nicer Likewas there were you able to
(24:09):
quickly build a community ofsome sort for yourself.
Yeah, I think that there, I mean, there's much more of a, it's a
much more community-orientedsociety, and I think that just
being I mean, I was also workingin a place that was it was a
children's home it had over 400children living in the same
community and so it was just avery large family style
(24:30):
community to begin with, and soI think that they're living in
that kind of environment is justvery we live very isolated here
and very individualistic, andso I think being in kind of that
community environment wasrefreshing and seeing how people
just come together and helpeach other out and show up for
(24:52):
one another, offer a hand, offera meal, for volunteer time I
think those seeing more of thatthere than I ever had here was
definitely eye-opening andoffered a perspective on life
that has stuck with me eversince of just like why can't we
live more like that?
Or why are we becoming, I think,with technology, even more so?
(25:16):
Everyone, everyone is just kindof in their own world a lot of
the time, and I think that wemiss out on a lot by not
engaging in community in thatway.
Shawn (25:27):
I think underscoring this point of American isolationism
and individualism is the factthat we are recording this in
the same house but we're all indifferent rooms, that we are
recording this in the same house, but we're all in different
rooms.
A lot of the people that I'veinterviewed for this series have
(25:49):
talked about how the Americandream is, in many ways, a bit of
an illusion.
Yes, it's true that in theUnited States, our standard of
living tends to be much higherthan most other places on the
planet, as is the cost of living, but that we have a level of
convenience that we're veryaccustomed to in the United
States that doesn't exist inother countries, but that, at
the same time, the cost ofliving, like I mentioned, is
very high.
(26:09):
In the United States we are avery lonely country.
There's a lot of anxiety anddepression.
In the United States.
We have a very strong gunculture.
I think you have to take thosethings on balance.
But actually, pavel, thisquestion is directed at you
because you have a uniqueperspective in that you, while
you have lived in othercountries, you're the only one
(26:30):
of the three of us that actuallymoved into the United States,
so you must have been exposed tothe idea of what the American
dream is, but now you'reactually experiencing it.
So how have you found it is?
Pavel (26:40):
actually one of the most noticeable ones for me here.
It's very difficult to makefriends here as well.
I don't know if it's the agething or something else, but
(27:11):
generally people are much moreclosed and reserved and keep
each other at a very, you know,big distance.
So, yeah, I mean you have ahigher quality of life, but you
pay a lot more for it by workinglonger days or, you know,
(27:31):
stressing about the costs thatyou pay to fix things around the
house, or you know what's thebill is going to be when you go
to a doctor or dentist.
Uh, so it is.
It's not what it appears to be.
It's like america is very goodabout creating the facade.
(27:55):
It's like you go into all thesenice neighborhoods and like the
front of a house looks so nice,but if you look at the back of
the house, it's just, it's justa box shaped.
You know I'm talking about likethese modern, like housing
communities, uh, onneighborhoods that they're
building and like they wouldhave, like what was interesting
(28:19):
to me as well as, like you know,sometimes they would have a
front of a house with like somerocks, like the facade is made
out of rocks, but you knock onit and it's just plastic, so it
like it looks nice but it's kindof fake.
(28:39):
Or the fact that I was surprisedor shocked to learn how people
live in these nice housesdriving these big fancy cars,
but they're actually in debt.
So that's another point that, Iwould say, is disappointing
about the American dream.
Shawn (29:01):
I do remember when we were buying a house.
It's actually kind of aninteresting commentary about our
mindsets and how different theywere.
When we were buying a house,you, Pavel, had a really
difficult time understanding whyyou only put a certain amount
down and then take out themortgage for the rest of your
house.
You likened it to like beingenslaved to banks or something.
Pavel (29:26):
And to me.
Shawn (29:26):
I was like well, that's just how you do it.
Like I couldn't wrap my brainaround how else you would do it.
Pavel (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, like I.
I never, I never took a loanfor anything.
Because, like, why would I buymyself a car that I cannot
afford?
Like my first car in NewZealand costs $1,700, because
that's what I could afford.
So I just bought what I couldafford.
And when, when our neighborbought a fancy Mercedes car, I
(29:56):
looked at him.
I'm like, why would you?
Why would you do that?
Like, like, why would you havea, a car that you cannot afford?
Because you also have tomaintain it and, like, pay more,
like it's.
It seems like, yeah, like you,you become a slave of some sort
to to the comfort Like you livein the very nicely furnished
(30:20):
cage, don't?
mean to sound depressing but, ina way, it is right.
Shawn (30:29):
What was debt culture like in Honduras.
Christina Korpi (30:32):
I think, similar, especially when I first
I moved there in 2011.
And I think that since then,there's much more credit that is
used today, in 2025, than therewas back in 2011.
Hearing and talking to peopleabout how first you would buy
(31:02):
the land and then you mightbuild one room, and then you
would add on a second room andthen you would add on a third
room, and so you wouldn't buy ahouse, like we do here, that's
just all ready to go and has aprice tag.
You would maybe start buildingand build as much as you could
afford at a time.
That said, there were a lot ofpeople that couldn't afford the
land or building, and so therewas a lot of intergenerational
(31:24):
living or people living withfriends or family or siblings in
the same house because theycouldn't afford to buy their own
, and I think that that's areflection.
That was also a reflection ofpeople just wouldn't like you
wouldn't go into debt to buyhomes.
However, I think that the sincethen, over the last 15 years, I
(31:46):
think that credit has becomemore accessible and more readily
used in Honduras than it thanit was back then, and that's
also kind of scary to see,because I think the interest
rates of Honduras are reallyterrible and worse than we have
here, and yet people are usingit because they have to or they
(32:07):
can, in order to have businessesor homes of their own or cars
of their own, and so I seepeople going into more debt than
they ever used to, at a higherinterest rate than we
experienced, and so it just kindof seems.
And yet they have a much lowerincome or annual salary than we
(32:28):
would here, and so I just see alot of people going into debt
and the debt growing at scaryrates.
But that's know, they see it asa necessity in order to have a
car or to have a home, and soit's just a.
It's also interesting towitness and to hear about and to
talk about and relate it to theUnited States and how most
(32:50):
people here are in debt, butit's also a little bit different
than what debt looks like inHonduras.
Shawn (32:57):
Another thing that I'm talking to a lot of people about
is the fact that a lot ofAmericans, given how strong the
US dollar is, one of theconsiderations moving abroad is
that they can stretch thatdollar out much further than
they can in the United States.
But we are living through aperiod of time in which that US
dollar, when we take that otherplaces, can create cost of
(33:18):
living crises in certain cornersof the world.
A lot of Latin Americancountries are very attractive to
Americans, and particularlyretirees, because they can
retire with a certain degree ofluxury with their savings that
they couldn't in the UnitedStates.
But that also creates someproblems in these countries that
they're moving to, becauselocals often can't afford that
(33:39):
right and so it might price themout of the housing market, etc.
If I think about Honduras, Iknow that Roatan is a hotspot.
I don't think that the answerto that is that people should
absolutely not move to placesthat they want to, but I do
think there's a way to do thisresponsibly and to consider how
(33:59):
their presence in the US dollarmight be impacting the community
.
So have you ever given anythought to how Americans can be
doing this responsibly or whatthey should be thinking about?
Christina Korpi (34:09):
I mean, I think , as you mentioned Roatan, I
think some of the largestdisparities I've ever seen have
been on the islands of Utila andRotan in Honduras, where you've
got a lot of expats coming inand then you have around the
corner the slums of Honduransthat are living on the islands,
(34:30):
and it's very, very difficultand sad to see.
And I think it's a reflectionof just what you're talking like
.
Even if, if you're retired fromthe US, you're not making,
you're not working and making asalary anymore, but you're
living off of a retirementthat's likely more than what
people in Honduras might make ona monthly basis.
(34:52):
You're just going to have avery different lifestyle and I
think that in places where thereare a lot of expats, you can
really really see thosedifferences and the disparities,
and it's really quite hard tosee.
I think that when you considerliving abroad, I think it's
always good to look at what isthe average monthly income for
(35:16):
locals, and in Honduras rightnow it's like between six and
seven hundred dollars a month,um.
And so then when you think about, like, how much money are you
living off of each month and howdoes that compare to what a
local um might be getting as anas an average wage and what kind
of lifestyles might you beliving and how does that differ
(35:37):
from what they might be living?
I think that's always, it'salways just good to consider all
of those things and think aboutthat and think about the impact
that you might have on thecommunity around you If you're
moving in and you're living offof 6,000 a month and your
neighbor's living off of 600 amonth or more.
I think it's good to be aware.
I'm sure I have more thoughtsthan that, but I think my first,
(35:58):
my first thought or what comesto mind first, is kind of just
making sure that you are awareand engaged in the country that
you're moving to or the countrythat you're living in, and kind
of understanding what theaverage person lives like and
what the average cost of livingis and what people are, what
most people are spending ontheir housing, what most people
(36:20):
are spending on their groceries,and at least being aware so
that you know.
You know how, how you differ orhow you, how your experience
might differ from, from yourneighbors and the community
you're in.
Shawn (36:32):
So, if we take all of your living abroad experiences
in the collective, what do youthink are some of the most
rewarding aspects of livingabroad?
Christina Korpi (36:42):
I think that engaging with another culture is
just is a really richexperience if you, if you have
the opportunity to experience it.
I think being able to witnessand experience the joys of life
that that different communitiesand different cultures
experience in a different waythan what we are used to or what
you have been used to in yourlife so far, I think that also.
(37:04):
I mean, obviously this dependson what country you're going to,
but I think that the engagingwith nature in a different way,
I think that we in the UnitedStates have a limited,
especially if you're living in abig city, you just have a
limited experience or engagementwith the nature and farming.
(37:26):
Or you know you go to thegrocery store for everything but
you don't necessarily see whereyour fruits and vegetables are
coming from or where your milkis coming from.
And I think being able toexperience that and and in my,
in my experience in Honduras,but I think also in in many
countries closer to the equatorjust living primarily outdoors
(37:48):
rather than indoors, I think we,mostly due to weather, but also
our lifestyle, we're very muchan indoor society in the United
States and I think being in aplace where people are just
living most of their life you goinside to sleep, but most of
your life and most of yourwhether you're cooking, whether
you're playing, whether you'reworking, if it's mostly outside
(38:10):
it's a very different experienceand a different engagement with
nature and the earth.
That, I think, is reallyeye-opening and it's really an
opportunity to understandhumanity in a different way, and
I think that was a veryrewarding and valuable
experience that I was able tohave.
Pavel (38:32):
Out of those three years, what's the most memorable
experience and what would yousay you learned after these
three years that you lived there?
Christina Korpi (38:43):
well, I think, I mean, I, my experience was
working.
I was working with children andyouth, and I think that being
in a different culture, in adifferent community and in in
just a completely differentlifestyle was, I think.
And now having a child of myown, I think I think about that
often.
I think that I think about howchildren were engaged, the daily
(39:08):
activities, how theyparticipated in their daily
living.
And then looking at kids in theUnited States and how they are
taken care of and how theirexperience with the world is
different and what theexpectations are of them.
Or think that having, I thinkthat seeing and witnessing such
(39:39):
a different um, a different wayof life and a different, a
different way to come up in thisworld made me really consider,
like, how do we raise ourchildren here and how do we make
global citizens out of people?
And how, what, what are thevalues that we need to instill
(40:00):
in our young people and what are, um, what makes us give back to
humanity versus only thinkabout ourselves?
And and I think that havingthat experience just really
opened up my, opened up my eyesand opened up my, my mind and my
heart to like what does, whatdoes that look like.
And and what are we?
We, what do we do well, andwhat could we do differently to
(40:21):
really create a, create asociety that's more caring and
more you know human humanityoriented versus um
individualistic?
Pavel (40:31):
yeah, and community oriented right, yeah, yeah,
exactly where you show up tohelp others and then others come
and help you.
Yeah, exactly that for you,right?
Christina Korpi (40:44):
yeah, yeah, I was just talking to a friend
recently about like reciprocityand gratitude and um how with
our children, like you hope thatthat just comes naturally and
(41:06):
you hope that they just giveback and and want to give back
because they feel grateful foreverything they've been given.
But I think that the reality isin in United States there's you
have to teach your children tobe grateful and teach your
children to be to, toparticipate in reciprocity, and
(41:26):
and I think that's it doesn'tcome.
Maybe it used to come morenaturally, but I feel like more
and more it's something that youhave to teach and it doesn't it
doesn't necessarily comenaturally to our children.
Pavel (41:37):
Would you say it's because like here, like
relationships, that probablymost people have a kind of very
transactional?
Christina Korpi (41:47):
yeah, I think so.
I think there's a lot oftransactional.
I think there's a lot.
I think there's less and lessjust like comfort with, I mean,
strangers is too much likewithin community.
People are just, they havetheir small pockets of their
family, basically, and they'rethey're less comfortable
engaging with their neighbors.
I think even in my lifetime Igrew up in the Seattle area and
(42:10):
I grew up in a cul-de-sac whereeveryone was just kind of like
constantly hanging out and Ithink there are some communities
that do that.
But I think more and more kidsare just inside their own houses
and maybe not learning toengage with their community in
that way.
Pavel (42:26):
I grew up in a small town as well and you go outside to
play and that's how you learn tointeract with other kids and
other people.
And here in the States youdrive your kid to the school.
You drive to whateveractivities he or she have after
(42:47):
a school or like.
If you want to set up like asocial time for your kid, you
have to plan it.
Christina Korpi (42:56):
it's not like your kid can just go outside and
play with neighbors, right yeah, exactly, and I think that in
honduras like whether it waswhether it was in the home that
I worked at with all the kids orwhether it was in the
communities, um, and thevillages surrounding it you, in
the home that I worked at withall the kids, or whether it was
in the communities and thevillages surrounding the
afternoon, would roll around anda bunch of kids would go out to
(43:18):
the field or the park in thecommunity and play soccer, and
it would just bring peopletogether and there's a whole
kind of community comingtogether.
And I think that that's lessand less so in our in our
neighborhoods.
Pavel (43:31):
And you know that you play soccer if you're on an
organized sports team, butyou're not necessarily just
going to the going to the fieldat five o'clock in the afternoon
for a pickup game yeah, likeyou have to set up an
appointment to exactly to go andplay football or something, or
another thing that I I starteddoing myself here as as, as like
(43:55):
you know, I became American, isthat in the past I would just
like call people if I wanted totalk with somebody, and now I
text and ask like, oh, do youwant to talk about?
You know, talk this time orthat time, with that time work
for you, as opposed to you knowbeing a little bit more natural
(44:19):
and spontaneous.
It seems like you have to likeplan, or you might like offend
people if you call and interruptsomething.
Right.
Christina Korpi (44:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Shawn (44:33):
When I think about my childhood, you know we would
just my friends and I, we wouldjust show up at each other's
houses at any time, just knockon the door.
And now, by way of example,we've been in your neck of the
woods a lot lately, christina,and the last time I was like,
you know, let's just stop atChristina's.
I was thinking this and then Iwas like, well, no, I mean,
that'd be really awkward.
(44:53):
But like what is it that peoplethat we think people are doing?
Now?
They can't be bothered forsomebody to drop by, right?
But at the same time, ifsomebody did just show up, I
think in the back of my mind I'dbe like what the hell's going
on?
Christina Korpi (45:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I wonder if our
expectations are just too high,like I wonder if it used to just
be okay to offer.
I don't know, you could justoffer whatever you have, and
maybe that's a couple ofcrackers and a glass of water,
and now people are like I can'thave people over unless I have X
, y and Z to serve them, and Iwonder if that's part of it.
But I think also, just, we areless of a spontaneous society
(45:33):
and we like to be morecontrolled and planned.
Shawn (45:37):
For people that are thinking about moving abroad.
We all hope that we have theopportunity to plan to do so For
one reason or another.
Sometimes people don't and theyhave to make a move pretty
quickly.
But for people that have theability to plan, and drawing on
maybe some of your experience,what advice would you give
people?
Christina Korpi (45:56):
that are thinking about moving abroad.
Yeah, I think that's a greatquestion.
I think that the thing that cameto mind, or that comes to mind
first, is just to go with anopen mind.
I think that the folks that havethe hardest time moving abroad
whether it's the hardest timeadjusting or whether it's the
hardest time being accepted arethe ones who tend to have a more
closed mind or expect whatthey're used to or expect that
(46:19):
they're going to be able to livewith the same way of living or
the same customer service or thesame attention to detail, or
whatever it might be that you'reused to or that you've
experienced in your own countryor in the United States.
And I think that whenever yougo to another country, you
really have to go with an openmind and the intention not to
(46:42):
judge the differences, but totry to accept the differences
and try to assimilate as much asyou can.
I think that your experiencewill be a lot more enjoyable and
a lot more genuine if you'reable to assimilate and accept
the culture and the experiencethat you are living in the
(47:03):
moment, because I think that themore expectation or the more
that you bring with you, themore challenging it will be to
to enjoy the country and theexperience for what it is,
rather than what it is incomparison to where you come
from.
Pavel (47:20):
Don't try to control.
It could be looked at as anexperience of letting go of
control and just seeing what'sout there.
Christina Korpi (47:31):
Yeah, yeah, just seeing what's out there.
Shawn (47:32):
Yeah, yeah, would you ever consider moving abroad
again?
Christina Korpi (47:36):
Yeah, I think so, um, but probably not in the
near future.
I think, uh, with a young child, I think you know education is
very important, um, and a senseof um, continuity and stability.
And there's a lot of.
There's a lot of disruptionwhen you move abroad and I think
, when speaking about educationin particular, there's a lot of
(47:57):
education systems that may bedifferent or or not quite to the
to the standard that you'reexpecting in some countries, or
it might be better in othercountries.
But I think that right now I'min a position where I can't
really see myself making thattransition in the near future.
I think that, also, coming outof college, it was an easy time
(48:22):
to transition.
I was going to be in transitionregardless because I had just
finished a big chapter and itwas kind of like, well, what's
next?
But I think right now I'mpretty settled and my community
and my family is nearby and Ithink I'm at a stage in life
that it would feel difficult toleave that all and go do
something different.
But I also often fantasizeabout what that would look like,
(48:45):
what country that might be.
There's something beeping.
Shawn (48:48):
I'll be back.
There's something beeping,pavlo, I think you have always
done that.
David Lesperance (48:51):
That's Pavlo.
Shawn (48:51):
I'll be back.
Pavel (48:52):
I'll be back.
Christina Korpi (48:55):
But yeah, I think I definitely would
consider it, but I think thetiming would be sometime in the
future and not immediately.
Shawn (49:03):
Pavlo, are you back?
Pavel (49:04):
Yeah, pavlo is done.
Yeah, now it's resting.
Shawn (49:12):
Okay, speaking of resting , I think we're done, yay.
So, christina, thank you.
Pavel (49:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Shawn (49:18):
Okay, you guys ready to go have some wine and dinner?
Christina Korpi (49:20):
Sounds good.
Shawn (49:23):
Honduras isn't exactly rolling out the red carpet for
expats, but it is offeringoptions, especially for retirees
and financially self-sufficientAmericans.
Two popular visa routes are thepensionado for those with a
guaranteed $1,500 a month incomethink Social Security or a
pension and the rentista forunearned income of $2,500 a
(49:46):
month.
You should expect paperwork,background checks, notarized
documents and medicalcertificates but once approved
you get a residency card whichis renewable annually, with
permanent residency possibleafter five years.
Popular expat havens includeplaces like Roatan, which has
Caribbean beauty with a divescene, english speakers and a
(50:09):
rising expat community.
Being an island, it is pricierthan the mainland, though Utila
is another island off the coastof Honduras.
It's budget-friendly and it hasbackpacker charm If you want to
stay on the mainland.
Copan Ruinas is a mountain townnear Guatemala, so it's got
cooler air and it's filled withMayan ruins.
The cost of living in Hondurasis low.
(50:32):
You can expect to spend maybe$300-$500 a month for rent,
$10-$20 for dinners and $30 fordoctor visits.
Private health care is the normfor expats in Honduras.
For serious care, regionaltravel or US visits might be
needed and as it relates tosafety, you should avoid big
city trouble spots.
Expat hubs and tourist zoneslike Roatan and Copan are much
(50:55):
safer.
Just use common sense and,importantly, remember, as
Christina said, you're bringingwealth into a country where many
live with far less.
So be mindful, respectful andintentional in how you engage
with your new community.
All right, next week we'rediscussing the ins and outs of
the digital nomad visa and we'llbe taking a look at Southeast
(51:20):
Asia, where the cost of livingis lower and the Wi-Fi is faster
than you think, and you mayneed to adjust to things being
spicy and fried whole.
This is Leaving America,because sometimes home isn't
where you started.
Thank you,
Hello, my name is David Westbrunst and in the
over 35 years since I was calledto the bar in 1990, I've been
advising American and globalfamilies on the tax and
immigration issues involved indesigning and executing
international backup plans.
Along with my legal expertise,I also draw my experience as a
(00:26):
border official while in lawschool, acquiring lineage
citizenships in severalcountries for myself and
numerous family members andmoving my own family overseas
three times.
Unlike most advisors in thisarea, I do not take commissions
from third parties such asgovernments, fund managers or
real estate developers.
This allows my clients to haveconfidence that my advice is
(00:49):
unconflicted and agnostic andalways in their own best
interest.
Shawn (01:04):
Welcome to Leaving America, the podcast.
For those of you who look atthe crumbling bridges, the
politicians quoting scriptureinstead of science, or the
rising sea levels lapping atyour front door and think
there's got to be other options,today's episode is the first of
a few throughout the series inwhich I, along with the help of
my partner in crime, my bestmate, my husband Pavel, are
(01:27):
interviewing some friends ofours that have actually lived
abroad about their experiences,how they did it, what surprised
them, how they adjusted, whatthey do differently.
Kind of the sky's the limit forthe conversations.
Hey, pavel, welcome to LeavingAmerica.
Hi, sean.
So last week we focused onLatin America, some Central and
(01:48):
South American countries thatoffer some great opportunities
for Americans wanting to moveabroad.
What countries have you visitedin Central and South America?
Pavel (01:57):
I've been to Costa Rica, mexico and Peru.
Shawn (02:01):
I think a lot of people assume that Latin America is a
monolith.
Like all the countries are verysimilar.
Did you find them to be similar?
Not at all.
Pavel (02:10):
Not at all.
They're all distinctivelydifferent, and I loved the
non-Americanized places the most, and that is Peru.
Shawn (02:25):
So Peru is your favorite?
I would say so, yeah, did youfind that?
So I've only been to Mexico andPanama, one of the countries
I've never been to.
Well, I haven't been to quite afew of them, but one of them is
Honduras, and I and you'venever been to Honduras, yeah,
but one of our friends hasChristina Corpy, and she lived
there for three years.
So she's the that's who we'retalking to today about her
(02:48):
experience living there.
Pavel (02:50):
Yeah, when I was growing up, there was this song about
Honduras and it was quitepopular.
David Lesperance (02:57):
Let me.
Pavel (02:58):
Google the lyrics, because there was something
funny about the lyrics.
It's a Russian song.
Yeah, all day you've paid me noattention, not a single word.
You said to me.
Honduras is in ruin and decay,political collapse in the
country.
Come to me, come to me, I loveyou, I'm yours, honduras is on
(03:20):
fire.
Honduras is on fire.
There's nothing in the stores.
Oh my God, that's outdated.
It seemed like they, yeah, theytried to like.
Yeah, it's like a supportive, asong, supportive of Honduras.
Shawn (03:39):
Yeah, I think it was very catchy.
I'm sure it was.
I get the impression that maybeHonduras has changed a little
bit.
Pavel (03:47):
Well yeah, I know that it did.
Shawn (03:51):
We can talk about life in Honduras with Christina and see
if it maps onto this song wellor not.
Pavel (03:57):
Yeah Well, where are your hosts Pavel and Sean?
Shawn (04:01):
And if you've ever watched a school band to kill a
mockingbird and thought thisfeels less like 2025 and more
like 1925, you're in the rightplace To stay updated on the
latest episodes.
Follow, like and share LeavingAmerica on the Deep Dive with
Sean podcast feed.
Wherever you get your podcasts,and if you're already living in
(04:24):
Honduras or you're just tryingto figure out how you'll survive
without Amazon Prime, we wantto hear from you.
Email us at deepdivewithshawnat gmailcom.
Pavel (04:34):
All right, pack your bags and cats and dogs and babies.
This is Living America.
Your cat in the bag, okay, yessir P cat in the bag.
Shawn (04:45):
Okay, yes, sir Posh, you can stop that.
Pavel (04:50):
Why that could be our dynamic.
Shawn (04:53):
No, I don't want that to be our dynamic.
Pavel (04:56):
Yes, sir.
Shawn (04:59):
Okay, here we go.
Hey, Christina.
Christina Korpi (05:02):
Hey Sean, hey Christina.
Shawn (05:03):
Hey, christina hey.
Christina Korpi (05:03):
Sean hey, christina hey Pavel.
Shawn (05:06):
So we wanted to talk to you because we're doing this
podcast Leaving America aboutpeople that maybe are
considering moving to anothercountry outside of the States,
and one component of thatpodcast is talking to some
people that we know that havelived outside of the States to
talk a little bit about theirexperience you have.
So why don't you tell us, maybefirst off, where you've lived
(05:28):
outside the US?
Christina Korpi (05:30):
I've lived outside of the US on three
different occasions.
First, I studied abroad when Iwas in college.
I went to Granada, spain, whichis in Southern Spain, and I was
there for about four months.
And then, after that experience, the next summer I spent in
Mexico and I was there for aboutfour months.
And then, after that experience, the next summer, I spent in
Mexico and I was there for twomonths.
And then, after I graduatedfrom under my undergraduate, I
(05:53):
moved to Honduras and I livedthere for just over three years.
Pavel (05:57):
Why Honduras?
Christina Korpi (05:59):
Well, I had.
When I was graduating, Imajored in Spanish and
psychology.
And when I was graduating, Imajored in Spanish and
psychology.
And when I was graduating, Iwanted to work with children and
I wanted to work in aSpanish-speaking country, and so
I was looking for programs thatI could go abroad, and I
(06:24):
originally was considering thePeace Corps, but at the time the
Peace Corps sounded like a longcommitment because it was I
believe it's a 24 monthcommitment and I thought that
sounded pretty long.
And so I found an organizationthat took volunteers for 12
months, and so I applied forthat organization and I got
offered a position in Honduras.
Shawn (06:41):
It sounds like maybe the organization took care of this
for you and it makes sense thatthe school went for you as well
when you were in Spain, but doyou remember having to do
anything related to the visaprocess?
Christina Korpi (06:54):
Well, when I went to Honduras with Spain I
don't think I I actually don'tremember Because I, yeah, I
think my school did most of thatfor me.
I don't think, and and I wondernow if it was Spain allows you
to be there for six monthswithout a visa.
But I was not.
I don't believe I had a visawhen I was in Spain, but when I
(07:14):
went to Honduras, we definitelydid need to get residency,
because if you're there forlonger than 90 days, you have to
have residency, and so theorganization that I was working
for was affiliated with theCatholic Church, and so, through
the Catholic Church in Honduras, we were able to get residency
for our length of stay, and ithad to be renewed yearly.
(07:35):
And so I got residence for myfirst year there, and then, when
I stayed additional years, Ijust had to renew my residency
each year.
Pavel (07:44):
So it's not like a permanent residency.
Christina Korpi (07:48):
No, it was more or less like a working permit
type residency, and so I had to,each year, provide evidence
that I was still with the sameorganization and still doing the
same work.
Shawn (08:01):
Did you choose Honduras, or was that chosen for you?
Christina Korpi (08:04):
Well, when I applied, the organization that I
worked for is called NuestrosPequeños Hermanos and they have
children's homes in ninedifferent countries in Latin
America, and so when I appliedto the organization, I indicated
that I would basically bewilling to go to any of the nine
countries.
But they did have you listpreferences, and so I believe
(08:28):
Honduras was on my list of thethree preferences and that was
where I got offered a position.
So I guess there was, I hadsome say in it, but also it was
just where the vacancies werethat you got offered positions
at.
Shawn (08:45):
Moving overseas is not a small thing and I think at
different stages in our life,the process of doing that
probably looks a bit differently.
I imagine that if you wereplanning to make a move overseas
now, you would plan verydifferently than you did when
you were just out of university.
But when you did and I'mespecially thinking about
Honduras, because that ended upbeing a three-year stay, so
(09:06):
that's a pretty significantperiod of time how did you
prepare to make an internationalmove like that?
Christina Korpi (09:13):
Yeah, I think originally, when I went to my
first time abroad, when I wentto Spain, I was minoring in
Spanish language and, afterliving in Spain for a couple of
months, I decided that I wasreally interested in the
language and in becoming morefluent and even understanding
(09:35):
cultures of various Spanishspeaking countries in a better
and more intimate way, and sothat was really the impetus of
trying to live abroad and workin a better and more intimate
way.
And so I um, that was really theimpetus of trying to live
abroad and work in a Spanishspeaking country.
And then, um, in preparing forthat, I tried to understand as
much as I could about thecountry that I was going to, and
(09:57):
then also thinking about youknow, when you're going, when
you're moving somewhere for ayear but you're going on an
airplane, you have to considerwhat you're going to bring with
you and how much you're going totake and what makes the most
sense to bring with you.
And I think a lot of that isvery practical, like I need to
have appropriate clothing forthe weather and the culture, and
(10:17):
I need to make sure that I'mthat I have my basics covered
when it comes to medicine, whenit comes to medical insurance,
and so trying to really packappropriately and then also make
sure that I had the appropriatecoverage, whether with medicine
or with insurance, those wereall part of preparing, and I
think it's hard to pack up Imean trying to pack as lightly
(10:40):
as possible while also movingabroad.
I think I ended up packing withone checked bag and one
backpack and then a carry-on,and trying to pack your life up
into a relatively small spacecan be a difficult task, and so
preparation took a while to tryto just determine what I was
going to bring and how I wasgoing to move my life for a long
(11:01):
period and into a small space.
Pavel (11:04):
Was it exciting, or were you anxious, or like what were
you feeling?
Christina Korpi (11:10):
I think a little bit of both.
I think, mostly excited, Ithink at that age too, I was
young, I didn't have manyresponsibilities at the time and
I was just kind of like it waslike going to your first real
job when you're not in school atthe same time, and so there was
a freeing element to it andalso an excitement about the
(11:33):
change in environment, but alsoan anxiety about being in a
different country, being in adifferent culture, being in a
different language, being with anew group of people and a new
community, being with a newgroup of people and a new
community.
And so I think all of that wascombined into kind of an anxious
excitement.
Pavel (11:51):
So you didn't know anybody when you were moving
over there, right, it was justthe place that you were.
Christina Korpi (12:08):
I actually did know one person, which was
somewhat of a coincidence.
So when I was graduating fromcollege, one of my friends from
high school who I didn't go tothe same college with, but we
were both considering kind ofthis abroad experience, and so
when I started applying I sharedabout the organization with her
and so she ended up applying aswell and we both got offered
positions in Honduras, and sothat was really helpful because
I had a friend that I wastraveling with and so some of
(12:31):
the anxiety about like going tosome but someplace entirely
alone was there was a buffer tothat, because I did know
somebody that I was travelingwith, but she ended up we were
there together for a year andthen she ended up going back
home and she went to med schoolafter that and I stayed longer
after she left, but I did havethat camaraderie as I moved down
(12:54):
there.
Shawn (12:56):
That's nice, that makes a big difference.
Christina Korpi (12:58):
Definitely, it definitely made it easier to
adjust.
Shawn (13:02):
So you spoke and speak Spanish and you went to a
Spanish speaking country.
So that probably goes a longway towards.
I think when we talk aboutthings like culture shock,
people immediately think about adifferent language, but I
assume that going from theUnited States to a Latin
American country like Honduras,you probably did experience some
type of culture shock.
Christina Korpi (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think that there were still
surprises, there were stilldifferences that I wasn't
anticipating, but I think thatit makes it a lot easier when
you well, and even with thelanguage after living in Spain
and living in Mexico, I thinkeach Spanish speaking country
has a very different accent andit took me longer than I would
(13:42):
have expected to kind of adjustto the Honduran accent and
really be able to communicate atthe level that I felt like I
should and could, and so I thinkthere was some adjustment with
that and a little bit ofsurprise and feeling like, oh
gosh, I'm lost in thisconversation, but I know that I
know Spanish.
So that took a couple of monthsand I think I was also.
(14:04):
I mean talking about packingand trying to move your life to
a new country, taking as littleas possible.
I think there was.
There's a lot of practicalitythat goes into packing of like
okay, what are the necessitiesthat I need?
And that's looking, like I said, at both the weather and the
culture.
But I think once I got there, Iwas kind of surprised and a
little unprepared for the way,like, just like we do here,
(14:30):
people have a lot of style,people dress up, people like to
wear nice.
I think in some ways, peopletend to dress up even more in
Honduras than they do in Seattle, for example, and so I think I
felt a little bit unprepared interms of having accessories and
outfits that I felt matched thelevel of style that locals had.
(14:53):
And so I think that was anadjustment that I made once I
got there, of kind of like, oh,I brought all this very
practical stuff and it wasappropriate attire because it's
a very warm country and climate,but people don't especially
women don't really wear shortsvery often, for example.
Um, so I didn't bring a lot ofshorts, but I also didn't expect
(15:13):
people to wear jeans as much asthey do, because jeans here at
home it's like you don'tnecessarily wear jeans in the
heat of the summer, um, but inhonduras they wear jeans pretty
much year round, and so some ofthose things that were cultural
or just stylish that I didn'texpect, that I adjusted to once
I got there.
(15:34):
And I think the other adjustmentwas in kind of the approach to
the medical system.
I think that was maybe one ofmy anxieties.
Going down is just like, okay,how do I make sure that I have
medical insurance while I'mthere and how do I make sure
that I'm that, if anything wereto happen, that I would have the
appropriate coverage to get thetype of care that I need or
expect?
(15:54):
And yeah, they.
They just have a very differenthealthcare system down there
and, luckily and thank goodness,nothing nothing terrible or
emergency ever happened to mewhile I was there, but but I
think that was that was one ofthe anxieties of like, okay, how
do I make sure that I have theeverything that I need to get
(16:16):
the type of care that I need ifanything were to happen?
Pavel (16:19):
Did you ever have to go to a doctor there.
Christina Korpi (16:22):
No, I actually I went a couple of times with to
accompany friends to the doctor.
But I am trying to think, but Idon't think for myself.
I don't think I ever had to goto a doctor.
I did go to a dentist once andthe dentist told me um, the
dentist told me that I had eightcavities and she was like do
(16:45):
you want me to fill them?
And I was like no, it's okay, Ithink I'll get a second opinion
.
And I actually had a tripscheduled to come home and I
went to the dentist when I gothome and the dentist was like
Nope, your teeth look great.
And I was like well, I just gottold in Honduras that I had
eight cavities and they werelike, oh no, that's wrong.
So I'm cavities.
(17:07):
And they were like, oh no,that's wrong.
So I'm glad that I, I'm gladthat I didn't choose to get
those cavities filled, because Ithink they would have just been
, uh, unnecessary fillings wasthere a lot of that type of
experience where people likelike providing the incorrect
information or like cheating youin a way I think, I mean, I
mean, I think that the that moreso like, uh, showing up as a
(17:28):
white person umthere was a lot of expectation
that I had more money to give,and so there would be times,
like on the local buses or goingto the market, where I might be
charged more than um somebodywho was before or after me, and
learning to navigate that anddetermine when it was
(17:49):
appropriate to say, you know,that's not the going rate,
versus maybe paying a couple oflimpitas extra because that was
the appropriate thing to do.
I think there was some nuancethere and kind of determining
when it was worth it to to argueor barter a price versus when
to just pay it.
Shawn (18:07):
Aval, you moved to a country that didn't speak the
language you grew up speaking.
Did you find that particularlydifficult?
Pavel (18:16):
Oh, yeah, I mean like I spoke American English before
moving to New Zealand but when Igot my first job and we had on
one of the first team meetings,I was sitting completely
stressed because I could notunderstand half of what
(18:36):
everybody was talking aboutbecause of their thick accent
and a different slang, like someof the words that they were
using.
I was like what?
Like oh, mean, that's mean, andI'm like that's not me, I'm not
being mean, but like it meanssomething else over there.
(18:58):
So, uh, yeah, definitely it.
I think it took.
It took about half a year or soto get used to it.
But yeah, I mean, you just getthrough it by continuing
immersing yourself in thatculture and not sticking around
(19:19):
with just like you know, Russianfriends or just your native
speakers?
you have to go out there and bewith locals, right?
Christina Korpi (19:29):
Did that help you.
Yeah, I think that's one of thehurdles to get over.
I think that there's definitelysome people who kind of shut
down when they experience thatand they're just like, oh no,
I'm going to say that I feelembarrassed or I'm going to say
the wrong thing, but I thinkthat the people that actually
(19:51):
are able to assimilate or learnare the ones that lean in and
say like, okay, how am I goingto figure this out so that I do
it right the next time, or sayit right the next time, or I
understand it right the nexttime?
And that's the way that you cankind of get better and pick up
on things.
There were definitely other inthe program that I worked with.
There were definitely othervolunteers that sometimes would
shut down and you would just see, like over the course of months
(20:12):
and months and months, they hada hard time picking up on the
language or or being able tocommunicate, versus people who
would kind of lean into thatdiscomfort and make a lot more
progress in a shorter period oftime.
Pavel (20:27):
You just have to get out of your bubble.
Christina Korpi (20:30):
Exactly.
Shawn (20:31):
So I think, rightly or wrongly you know, Honduras
specifically could be viewed asa developing country and that
maybe it has some dangerouscomponents to it.
What was your experience withthat, Christina?
And maybe even considering thefact that at the time you're a
single woman, if that was anyconcern that you had living
(20:52):
there?
Christina Korpi (20:52):
Yeah, I think that sometimes I look back and
think like, oh man, I maybedidn't consider that enough.
I think, being young andfreshly out of college and kind
of living just being bold inthat way, I think I didn't
really consider some of thedangers in the same way that I
(21:15):
do today, especially now that Ihave a young child and we still
go back to Honduras frequently,and I think I feel very
differently about the dangersnow.
Even like riding public buses Ihear now about situations in
which public buses are held upor robbed or things that happen
in the country on a regularbasis now hit me in a different
(21:37):
way than it did when I was young, and when I was young I kind of
felt like, well, I'll just takeit as it comes.
And now, maybe more mature, I'mkind of like, okay, how do I
make sure that I'm safe or we'resafe in this situation and what
does that look like?
And so I think I was maybe alittle bolder when I was young
and I didn't really worry aboutit as much as I might today.
(21:59):
The Peace Corps had pulled outof Honduras.
I think it was the year before,I think in 2010,.
After there was a governmentalcoup and the Peace Corps pulled
out, and so I think that was theyear before I moved there, and
so I think now I would considerall of that very differently
than I did then, or I didn'treally consider the weight of
(22:23):
that as much as I might now.
Shawn (22:26):
I think I'm starting to get a better picture of why they
had so many openings inHonduras, but the flip side of
that is that you can still havea good experience even in places
that have a hard scrabble sideto them.
So what were some of the maybeunexpected pleasant surprises
(22:46):
that you had living abroad?
Christina Korpi (22:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think just the pace of life.
I think America is, or theUnited States is, very much.
We grind here, we work a lot,people talk a lot about
work-life balance but thereisn't a whole lot of balance and
I think being in a country thatfelt just like the pace of life
really was more take it as itcomes and be present in the
moment.
The work schedule was maybe alittle bit less demanding I mean
(23:14):
, I still had a schedule, but itwas much more flexible and I
think, just the joy.
I think, uh, being in a countryand a culture where maybe there
isn't a whole lot of stuff,people aren't as wealthy, um, as
they may be in in other placesaround the world, but they just
have, um, uh joy in life thatthat sometimes feels lacking in
(23:42):
our demanding day-to-day that welive in the United States.
I think that that was apleasant surprise and also a
very welcome change in adifferent perspective on how to
live on a day-to-day basis.
How to live on a day-to-daybasis.
Were people generally nicer Likewas there were you able to
(24:09):
quickly build a community ofsome sort for yourself.
Yeah, I think that there, I mean, there's much more of a, it's a
much more community-orientedsociety, and I think that just
being I mean, I was also workingin a place that was it was a
children's home it had over 400children living in the same
community and so it was just avery large family style
(24:30):
community to begin with, and soI think that they're living in
that kind of environment is justvery we live very isolated here
and very individualistic, andso I think being in kind of that
community environment wasrefreshing and seeing how people
just come together and helpeach other out and show up for
(24:52):
one another, offer a hand, offera meal, for volunteer time I
think those seeing more of thatthere than I ever had here was
definitely eye-opening andoffered a perspective on life
that has stuck with me eversince of just like why can't we
live more like that?
Or why are we becoming, I think,with technology, even more so?
(25:16):
Everyone, everyone is just kindof in their own world a lot of
the time, and I think that wemiss out on a lot by not
engaging in community in thatway.
Shawn (25:27):
I think underscoring this point of American isolationism
and individualism is the factthat we are recording this in
the same house but we're all indifferent rooms, that we are
recording this in the same house, but we're all in different
rooms.
A lot of the people that I'veinterviewed for this series have
(25:49):
talked about how the Americandream is, in many ways, a bit of
an illusion.
Yes, it's true that in theUnited States, our standard of
living tends to be much higherthan most other places on the
planet, as is the cost of living, but that we have a level of
convenience that we're veryaccustomed to in the United
States that doesn't exist inother countries, but that, at
the same time, the cost ofliving, like I mentioned, is
very high.
(26:09):
In the United States we are avery lonely country.
There's a lot of anxiety anddepression.
In the United States.
We have a very strong gunculture.
I think you have to take thosethings on balance.
But actually, pavel, thisquestion is directed at you
because you have a uniqueperspective in that you, while
you have lived in othercountries, you're the only one
(26:30):
of the three of us that actuallymoved into the United States,
so you must have been exposed tothe idea of what the American
dream is, but now you'reactually experiencing it.
So how have you found it is?
Pavel (26:40):
actually one of the most noticeable ones for me here.
It's very difficult to makefriends here as well.
I don't know if it's the agething or something else, but
(27:11):
generally people are much moreclosed and reserved and keep
each other at a very, you know,big distance.
So, yeah, I mean you have ahigher quality of life, but you
pay a lot more for it by workinglonger days or, you know,
(27:31):
stressing about the costs thatyou pay to fix things around the
house, or you know what's thebill is going to be when you go
to a doctor or dentist.
Uh, so it is.
It's not what it appears to be.
It's like america is very goodabout creating the facade.
(27:55):
It's like you go into all thesenice neighborhoods and like the
front of a house looks so nice,but if you look at the back of
the house, it's just, it's justa box shaped.
You know I'm talking about likethese modern, like housing
communities, uh, onneighborhoods that they're
building and like they wouldhave, like what was interesting
(28:19):
to me as well as, like you know,sometimes they would have a
front of a house with like somerocks, like the facade is made
out of rocks, but you knock onit and it's just plastic, so it
like it looks nice but it's kindof fake.
(28:39):
Or the fact that I was surprisedor shocked to learn how people
live in these nice housesdriving these big fancy cars,
but they're actually in debt.
So that's another point that, Iwould say, is disappointing
about the American dream.
Shawn (29:01):
I do remember when we were buying a house.
It's actually kind of aninteresting commentary about our
mindsets and how different theywere.
When we were buying a house,you, Pavel, had a really
difficult time understanding whyyou only put a certain amount
down and then take out themortgage for the rest of your
house.
You likened it to like beingenslaved to banks or something.
Pavel (29:26):
And to me.
Shawn (29:26):
I was like well, that's just how you do it.
Like I couldn't wrap my brainaround how else you would do it.
Pavel (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, like I.
I never, I never took a loanfor anything.
Because, like, why would I buymyself a car that I cannot
afford?
Like my first car in NewZealand costs $1,700, because
that's what I could afford.
So I just bought what I couldafford.
And when, when our neighborbought a fancy Mercedes car, I
(29:56):
looked at him.
I'm like, why would you?
Why would you do that?
Like, like, why would you havea, a car that you cannot afford?
Because you also have tomaintain it and, like, pay more,
like it's.
It seems like, yeah, like you,you become a slave of some sort
to to the comfort Like you livein the very nicely furnished
(30:20):
cage, don't?
mean to sound depressing but, ina way, it is right.
Shawn (30:29):
What was debt culture like in Honduras.
Christina Korpi (30:32):
I think, similar, especially when I first
I moved there in 2011.
And I think that since then,there's much more credit that is
used today, in 2025, than therewas back in 2011.
Hearing and talking to peopleabout how first you would buy
(31:02):
the land and then you mightbuild one room, and then you
would add on a second room andthen you would add on a third
room, and so you wouldn't buy ahouse, like we do here, that's
just all ready to go and has aprice tag.
You would maybe start buildingand build as much as you could
afford at a time.
That said, there were a lot ofpeople that couldn't afford the
land or building, and so therewas a lot of intergenerational
(31:24):
living or people living withfriends or family or siblings in
the same house because theycouldn't afford to buy their own
, and I think that that's areflection.
That was also a reflection ofpeople just wouldn't like you
wouldn't go into debt to buyhomes.
However, I think that the sincethen, over the last 15 years, I
(31:46):
think that credit has becomemore accessible and more readily
used in Honduras than it thanit was back then, and that's
also kind of scary to see,because I think the interest
rates of Honduras are reallyterrible and worse than we have
here, and yet people are usingit because they have to or they
(32:07):
can, in order to have businessesor homes of their own or cars
of their own, and so I seepeople going into more debt than
they ever used to, at a higherinterest rate than we
experienced, and so it just kindof seems.
And yet they have a much lowerincome or annual salary than we
(32:28):
would here, and so I just see alot of people going into debt
and the debt growing at scaryrates.
But that's know, they see it asa necessity in order to have a
car or to have a home, and soit's just a.
It's also interesting towitness and to hear about and to
talk about and relate it to theUnited States and how most
(32:50):
people here are in debt, butit's also a little bit different
than what debt looks like inHonduras.
Shawn (32:57):
Another thing that I'm talking to a lot of people about
is the fact that a lot ofAmericans, given how strong the
US dollar is, one of theconsiderations moving abroad is
that they can stretch thatdollar out much further than
they can in the United States.
But we are living through aperiod of time in which that US
dollar, when we take that otherplaces, can create cost of
(33:18):
living crises in certain cornersof the world.
A lot of Latin Americancountries are very attractive to
Americans, and particularlyretirees, because they can
retire with a certain degree ofluxury with their savings that
they couldn't in the UnitedStates.
But that also creates someproblems in these countries that
they're moving to, becauselocals often can't afford that
(33:39):
right and so it might price themout of the housing market, etc.
If I think about Honduras, Iknow that Roatan is a hotspot.
I don't think that the answerto that is that people should
absolutely not move to placesthat they want to, but I do
think there's a way to do thisresponsibly and to consider how
(33:59):
their presence in the US dollarmight be impacting the community
.
So have you ever given anythought to how Americans can be
doing this responsibly or whatthey should be thinking about?
Christina Korpi (34:09):
I mean, I think , as you mentioned Roatan, I
think some of the largestdisparities I've ever seen have
been on the islands of Utila andRotan in Honduras, where you've
got a lot of expats coming inand then you have around the
corner the slums of Honduransthat are living on the islands,
(34:30):
and it's very, very difficultand sad to see.
And I think it's a reflectionof just what you're talking like
.
Even if, if you're retired fromthe US, you're not making,
you're not working and making asalary anymore, but you're
living off of a retirementthat's likely more than what
people in Honduras might make ona monthly basis.
(34:52):
You're just going to have avery different lifestyle and I
think that in places where thereare a lot of expats, you can
really really see thosedifferences and the disparities,
and it's really quite hard tosee.
I think that when you considerliving abroad, I think it's
always good to look at what isthe average monthly income for
(35:16):
locals, and in Honduras rightnow it's like between six and
seven hundred dollars a month,um.
And so then when you think about, like, how much money are you
living off of each month and howdoes that compare to what a
local um might be getting as anas an average wage and what kind
of lifestyles might you beliving and how does that differ
(35:37):
from what they might be living?
I think that's always, it'salways just good to consider all
of those things and think aboutthat and think about the impact
that you might have on thecommunity around you If you're
moving in and you're living offof 6,000 a month and your
neighbor's living off of 600 amonth or more.
I think it's good to be aware.
I'm sure I have more thoughtsthan that, but I think my first,
(35:58):
my first thought or what comesto mind first, is kind of just
making sure that you are awareand engaged in the country that
you're moving to or the countrythat you're living in, and kind
of understanding what theaverage person lives like and
what the average cost of livingis and what people are, what
most people are spending ontheir housing, what most people
(36:20):
are spending on their groceries,and at least being aware so
that you know.
You know how, how you differ orhow you, how your experience
might differ from, from yourneighbors and the community
you're in.
Shawn (36:32):
So, if we take all of your living abroad experiences
in the collective, what do youthink are some of the most
rewarding aspects of livingabroad?
Christina Korpi (36:42):
I think that engaging with another culture is
just is a really richexperience if you, if you have
the opportunity to experience it.
I think being able to witnessand experience the joys of life
that that different communitiesand different cultures
experience in a different waythan what we are used to or what
you have been used to in yourlife so far, I think that also.
(37:04):
I mean, obviously this dependson what country you're going to,
but I think that the engagingwith nature in a different way,
I think that we in the UnitedStates have a limited,
especially if you're living in abig city, you just have a
limited experience or engagementwith the nature and farming.
(37:26):
Or you know you go to thegrocery store for everything but
you don't necessarily see whereyour fruits and vegetables are
coming from or where your milkis coming from.
And I think being able toexperience that and and in my,
in my experience in Honduras,but I think also in in many
countries closer to the equatorjust living primarily outdoors
(37:48):
rather than indoors, I think we,mostly due to weather, but also
our lifestyle, we're very muchan indoor society in the United
States and I think being in aplace where people are just
living most of their life you goinside to sleep, but most of
your life and most of yourwhether you're cooking, whether
you're playing, whether you'reworking, if it's mostly outside
(38:10):
it's a very different experienceand a different engagement with
nature and the earth.
That, I think, is reallyeye-opening and it's really an
opportunity to understandhumanity in a different way, and
I think that was a veryrewarding and valuable
experience that I was able tohave.
Pavel (38:32):
Out of those three years, what's the most memorable
experience and what would yousay you learned after these
three years that you lived there?
Christina Korpi (38:43):
well, I think, I mean, I, my experience was
working.
I was working with children andyouth, and I think that being
in a different culture, in adifferent community and in in
just a completely differentlifestyle was, I think.
And now having a child of myown, I think I think about that
often.
I think that I think about howchildren were engaged, the daily
(39:08):
activities, how theyparticipated in their daily
living.
And then looking at kids in theUnited States and how they are
taken care of and how theirexperience with the world is
different and what theexpectations are of them.
Or think that having, I thinkthat seeing and witnessing such
(39:39):
a different um, a different wayof life and a different, a
different way to come up in thisworld made me really consider,
like, how do we raise ourchildren here and how do we make
global citizens out of people?
And how, what, what are thevalues that we need to instill
(40:00):
in our young people and what are, um, what makes us give back to
humanity versus only thinkabout ourselves?
And and I think that havingthat experience just really
opened up my, opened up my eyesand opened up my, my mind and my
heart to like what does, whatdoes that look like.
And and what are we?
We, what do we do well, andwhat could we do differently to
(40:21):
really create a, create asociety that's more caring and
more you know human humanityoriented versus um
individualistic?
Pavel (40:31):
yeah, and community oriented right, yeah, yeah,
exactly where you show up tohelp others and then others come
and help you.
Yeah, exactly that for you,right?
Christina Korpi (40:44):
yeah, yeah, I was just talking to a friend
recently about like reciprocityand gratitude and um how with
our children, like you hope thatthat just comes naturally and
(41:06):
you hope that they just giveback and and want to give back
because they feel grateful foreverything they've been given.
But I think that the reality isin in United States there's you
have to teach your children tobe grateful and teach your
children to be to, toparticipate in reciprocity, and
(41:26):
and I think that's it doesn'tcome.
Maybe it used to come morenaturally, but I feel like more
and more it's something that youhave to teach and it doesn't it
doesn't necessarily comenaturally to our children.
Pavel (41:37):
Would you say it's because like here, like
relationships, that probablymost people have a kind of very
transactional?
Christina Korpi (41:47):
yeah, I think so.
I think there's a lot oftransactional.
I think there's a lot.
I think there's less and lessjust like comfort with, I mean,
strangers is too much likewithin community.
People are just, they havetheir small pockets of their
family, basically, and they'rethey're less comfortable
engaging with their neighbors.
I think even in my lifetime Igrew up in the Seattle area and
(42:10):
I grew up in a cul-de-sac whereeveryone was just kind of like
constantly hanging out and Ithink there are some communities
that do that.
But I think more and more kidsare just inside their own houses
and maybe not learning toengage with their community in
that way.
Pavel (42:26):
I grew up in a small town as well and you go outside to
play and that's how you learn tointeract with other kids and
other people.
And here in the States youdrive your kid to the school.
You drive to whateveractivities he or she have after
(42:47):
a school or like.
If you want to set up like asocial time for your kid, you
have to plan it.
Christina Korpi (42:56):
it's not like your kid can just go outside and
play with neighbors, right yeah, exactly, and I think that in
honduras like whether it waswhether it was in the home that
I worked at with all the kids orwhether it was in the
communities, um, and thevillages surrounding it you, in
the home that I worked at withall the kids, or whether it was
in the communities and thevillages surrounding the
afternoon, would roll around anda bunch of kids would go out to
(43:18):
the field or the park in thecommunity and play soccer, and
it would just bring peopletogether and there's a whole
kind of community comingtogether.
And I think that that's lessand less so in our in our
neighborhoods.
Pavel (43:31):
And you know that you play soccer if you're on an
organized sports team, butyou're not necessarily just
going to the going to the fieldat five o'clock in the afternoon
for a pickup game yeah, likeyou have to set up an
appointment to exactly to go andplay football or something, or
another thing that I I starteddoing myself here as as, as like
(43:55):
you know, I became American, isthat in the past I would just
like call people if I wanted totalk with somebody, and now I
text and ask like, oh, do youwant to talk about?
You know, talk this time orthat time, with that time work
for you, as opposed to you knowbeing a little bit more natural
(44:19):
and spontaneous.
It seems like you have to likeplan, or you might like offend
people if you call and interruptsomething.
Right.
Christina Korpi (44:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Shawn (44:33):
When I think about my childhood, you know we would
just my friends and I, we wouldjust show up at each other's
houses at any time, just knockon the door.
And now, by way of example,we've been in your neck of the
woods a lot lately, christina,and the last time I was like,
you know, let's just stop atChristina's.
I was thinking this and then Iwas like, well, no, I mean,
that'd be really awkward.
(44:53):
But like what is it that peoplethat we think people are doing?
Now?
They can't be bothered forsomebody to drop by, right?
But at the same time, ifsomebody did just show up, I
think in the back of my mind I'dbe like what the hell's going
on?
Christina Korpi (45:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I wonder if our
expectations are just too high,like I wonder if it used to just
be okay to offer.
I don't know, you could justoffer whatever you have, and
maybe that's a couple ofcrackers and a glass of water,
and now people are like I can'thave people over unless I have X
, y and Z to serve them, and Iwonder if that's part of it.
But I think also, just, we areless of a spontaneous society
(45:33):
and we like to be morecontrolled and planned.
Shawn (45:37):
For people that are thinking about moving abroad.
We all hope that we have theopportunity to plan to do so For
one reason or another.
Sometimes people don't and theyhave to make a move pretty
quickly.
But for people that have theability to plan, and drawing on
maybe some of your experience,what advice would you give
people?
Christina Korpi (45:56):
that are thinking about moving abroad.
Yeah, I think that's a greatquestion.
I think that the thing that cameto mind, or that comes to mind
first, is just to go with anopen mind.
I think that the folks that havethe hardest time moving abroad
whether it's the hardest timeadjusting or whether it's the
hardest time being accepted arethe ones who tend to have a more
closed mind or expect whatthey're used to or expect that
(46:19):
they're going to be able to livewith the same way of living or
the same customer service or thesame attention to detail, or
whatever it might be that you'reused to or that you've
experienced in your own countryor in the United States.
And I think that whenever yougo to another country, you
really have to go with an openmind and the intention not to
(46:42):
judge the differences, but totry to accept the differences
and try to assimilate as much asyou can.
I think that your experiencewill be a lot more enjoyable and
a lot more genuine if you'reable to assimilate and accept
the culture and the experiencethat you are living in the
(47:03):
moment, because I think that themore expectation or the more
that you bring with you, themore challenging it will be to
to enjoy the country and theexperience for what it is,
rather than what it is incomparison to where you come
from.
Pavel (47:20):
Don't try to control.
It could be looked at as anexperience of letting go of
control and just seeing what'sout there.
Christina Korpi (47:31):
Yeah, yeah, just seeing what's out there.
Shawn (47:32):
Yeah, yeah, would you ever consider moving abroad
again?
Christina Korpi (47:36):
Yeah, I think so, um, but probably not in the
near future.
I think, uh, with a young child, I think you know education is
very important, um, and a senseof um, continuity and stability.
And there's a lot of.
There's a lot of disruptionwhen you move abroad and I think
, when speaking about educationin particular, there's a lot of
(47:57):
education systems that may bedifferent or or not quite to the
to the standard that you'reexpecting in some countries, or
it might be better in othercountries.
But I think that right now I'min a position where I can't
really see myself making thattransition in the near future.
I think that, also, coming outof college, it was an easy time
(48:22):
to transition.
I was going to be in transitionregardless because I had just
finished a big chapter and itwas kind of like, well, what's
next?
But I think right now I'mpretty settled and my community
and my family is nearby and Ithink I'm at a stage in life
that it would feel difficult toleave that all and go do
something different.
But I also often fantasizeabout what that would look like,
(48:45):
what country that might be.
There's something beeping.
Shawn (48:48):
I'll be back.
There's something beeping,pavlo, I think you have always
done that.
David Lesperance (48:51):
That's Pavlo.
Shawn (48:51):
I'll be back.
Pavel (48:52):
I'll be back.
Christina Korpi (48:55):
But yeah, I think I definitely would
consider it, but I think thetiming would be sometime in the
future and not immediately.
Shawn (49:03):
Pavlo, are you back?
Pavel (49:04):
Yeah, pavlo is done.
Yeah, now it's resting.
Shawn (49:12):
Okay, speaking of resting , I think we're done, yay.
So, christina, thank you.
Pavel (49:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Shawn (49:18):
Okay, you guys ready to go have some wine and dinner?
Christina Korpi (49:20):
Sounds good.
Shawn (49:23):
Honduras isn't exactly rolling out the red carpet for
expats, but it is offeringoptions, especially for retirees
and financially self-sufficientAmericans.
Two popular visa routes are thepensionado for those with a
guaranteed $1,500 a month incomethink Social Security or a
pension and the rentista forunearned income of $2,500 a
(49:46):
month.
You should expect paperwork,background checks, notarized
documents and medicalcertificates but once approved
you get a residency card whichis renewable annually, with
permanent residency possibleafter five years.
Popular expat havens includeplaces like Roatan, which has
Caribbean beauty with a divescene, english speakers and a
(50:09):
rising expat community.
Being an island, it is pricierthan the mainland, though Utila
is another island off the coastof Honduras.
It's budget-friendly and it hasbackpacker charm If you want to
stay on the mainland.
Copan Ruinas is a mountain townnear Guatemala, so it's got
cooler air and it's filled withMayan ruins.
The cost of living in Hondurasis low.
(50:32):
You can expect to spend maybe$300-$500 a month for rent,
$10-$20 for dinners and $30 fordoctor visits.
Private health care is the normfor expats in Honduras.
For serious care, regionaltravel or US visits might be
needed and as it relates tosafety, you should avoid big
city trouble spots.
Expat hubs and tourist zoneslike Roatan and Copan are much
(50:55):
safer.
Just use common sense and,importantly, remember, as
Christina said, you're bringingwealth into a country where many
live with far less.
So be mindful, respectful andintentional in how you engage
with your new community.
All right, next week we'rediscussing the ins and outs of
the digital nomad visa and we'llbe taking a look at Southeast
(51:20):
Asia, where the cost of livingis lower and the Wi-Fi is faster
than you think, and you mayneed to adjust to things being
spicy and fried whole.
This is Leaving America,because sometimes home isn't
where you started.
Thank you,
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