Leaving America E6: The Digital Nomad Life - Southeast Asia - Deep Dive with Shawn

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Marting (00:04):
Citizen Remote is a global mobility company.
In essence, we help with visas,taxes, accommodation, insurance
.
We also have a social community.
We have over 20,000 members.
Our big thing is understandingthe complexity within visas.
So obviously we do a lot ofeverything, but right now we're

(00:25):
really niching down on helpingpeople with visas because that's
the first part of the processthat people encounter when
relocating abroad.
Obviously, the next year you'regoing to have to do taxes, so
you can use us for that.
You're going to have to getinsurance up front, so you can
use us for that.
But visas is quite complex andwe essentially have immigration
teams on the ground in over 35different countries and we're

(00:49):
growing that number every day.

Shawn (01:02):
Welcome to Leaving America, the podcast for people
who think remote should describetheir job, not their chance of
affording a house in the UnitedStates.
Today's episode is for anyonewho's ever read the latest
Supreme Court decision, checkedthe weather in Bali and wondered
could I just go?
The answer is yes, but notwithout a little bureaucracy, a

(01:23):
grasp of visa nuance and awillingness to change your diet.
In this episode, we're going tofocus on the digital nomad visa
and while many countries areadopting this relatively new
visa program Portugal, spain,croatia, estonia, mexico, costa
Rica, mauritius, united ArabEmirates, romania, just to name
a few today we're going to belooking at Southeast Asia.

(01:45):
We'll be discussing thespiritual meccas of wanderlust
and work from anywhere Bali andThailand and we'll also take a
look at Malaysia and thePhilippines, two countries
quietly building their own nomadcred while everyone else's
Instagram feed is clogged withBalinese waterfalls and White
Lotus filming locations inThailand.
And because you're not justlooking for pretty views, you're

(02:07):
looking for practical escaperoutes.
We're going to dive into visaoptions for long-term stays,
health care, cost of living,language barriers and the actual
lifestyle, because you don'tjust want to leave America, you
want to land somewhere you'llactually like.
I'm your host, shawn C Fettig,and if you've ever thought this
would be better with a view ofrice patties, you're absolutely

(02:29):
in the right place To stayupdated on the latest episodes.
Follow, like and share LeavingAmerica on the Deep Dive with
Shawn podcast feed.
Wherever you get your podcasts,and if you've escaped American
chaos for island life or arejust wondering which is the best
VPN to stream Hulu in Bali,drop us a line at
deepdivewithshawn at gmailcom.

(02:51):
All right, pack your bags.
This is Leaving America.

Chris Dodd (03:03):
Yeah, so there's a bit of contention on what that
actually means that term.
For me, the digital part isvery self-explanatory.
It's just you work online, sothere's no real debate on that.
The more debatable word indigital nomad is nomad.
So at what point do you becomea nomad and this is a discussion

(03:24):
I've had with lots of people inthis community is, if you
travel to a different countryevery month, then you could say
that you're a nomad.
But what happens if you stay inone of those countries for six
months and then you do likethree months in one other place
and three months in anotherplace, and then you just cycle
that every year.
So are you a nomad then?

(03:46):
Or some friends that I madewhen I was in Thailand, like
eight years ago, they just endedup staying in Thailand and so
they maybe go traveling a montha year like a lot of normal
people would.
So can we really call themnomads anymore?
Or like if a person works anormal job but they take a month

(04:08):
off to work remotely somewhereelse, like not taking a month
off work but take a month awayfrom there in you know, in, in
your case, the USA to to workremotely from Mexico, let's say
so, are they a digital nomad?
So to me, a digital nomad it's.
I mean, the easiest way tothink of it for me is more of

(04:28):
like a vibe, it's more of anattitude.
It's number one, you've got tobe location independent and then
, number two, you've got to beinterested in, you know, living
out of a suitcase for a periodand doing more long-term travel.
But where it starts being expatand where it starts going into
digital nomad is, you know, it'sa bit of a gray area.

Shawn (04:54):
That was Chris Dodd, otherwise known as Chris the
Freelancer, a front-end webdeveloper and content creator
who's been living the digitalnomad life since 2015,
explaining the friction betweenthe concepts of digital nomadism
and remote working.
A remote worker is anyone whoworks away from a centralized
office.
They could be toiling from asuburban living room, a quiet

(05:17):
library or the back of a campervan.
They might have a traditionalnine-to-five job, just one that
doesn't involve breakroom donutsor fluorescent lighting.
A digital nomad, on the otherhand, is a particular flavor of
remote worker the kind who alsosold most of their furniture,
bought a one-way ticket andhasn't received a jury duty
notice in years.

(05:38):
Digital nomads use the freedomof remote work to travel, not
just for vacation but as alifestyle.
They work from different cities, countries or continents, often
stringing together months oryears abroad with the help of
Wi-Fi, co-working spaces andmaybe the occasional visa
loophole.
Think of it this way Alldigital nomads are remote

(06:01):
workers, but not all remoteworkers are digital nomads.
One is untethered and mobile.
The other might still have amortgage and a favorite local
Thai takeout spot.
This blurry line between thetwo has become even blurrier in
recent years as more peoplerealize that working from home
doesn't always have to mean yourown home.

(06:22):
Only about 10 years ago, digitalnomads were fringe dwellers of
the global economy.
You'd meet them sporadically inhostile common rooms, usually
in Southeast Asia, wearing linenpants and speaking reverently
about passive income.
Their stories often involveddropshipping, early-stage crypto
or obscure Amazon affiliateschemes that were just

(06:42):
successful enough to pay forcoconut water and malaria meds.
It wasn't really clear if theywere grifters, visionaries or
just over-committed to the ideaof never wearing shoes again.
At that time, the notion thatsomeone could work remotely,
permanently, not just on a shortsabbatical, was radical.
Offices were still king, vpnswere temperamental at best and

(07:05):
the average employer had all theflexibility of a cinder block.
The people who managed to breakfree web developers, SEO gurus,
content marketers, graphicdesigners were few, often
self-employed and willing tosacrifice stability for a
hammock and a sense of freedom.
Stability for a hammock and asense of freedom.
Then came the platforms.

(07:25):
The rise of tools like Slack,zoom, dropbox and Asana in the
mid-2010s quietly built theinfrastructure that made remote
work viable.
Co-working spaces popped up indigital nomad hubs like Chiang
Mai, bali and Medellin, whereyou could rent a desk network
over cappuccinos and attendlectures.
Chris Dodd describes the earlydays of remote work and digital

(07:49):
nomadism.

Chris Dodd (07:54):
When I started, I think there was you could say
that there was a generation ortwo before me when I started and
so obviously, there were theearly pioneers.
I think the four hour work weekwas written in, I believe, 2007
.
And I read it, I believe, in2013.
And it was like very, you know,cutting edge back then.
And so these people that were,or these entrepreneurs that were

(08:17):
, working online could, you know, essentially move that, move
their operations out of anoffice and do it remotely.
And so the early pioneers,would you know, have the crazy
idea of, well, why don't I do ameeting via Skype and I can just
be anywhere in the world and doit.
And so it was just, it was justlike very like, adventurous,

(08:38):
cutting edge, like entrepreneursin the beginning.
Then, I guess, freelancing cameinto that, because as a
freelancer, you know you're nottied to an employment contract
and if, especially as adeveloper which I can relate to
as one you don't actually needto do any face-to-face work, so
it's all with a computer.
So you know, you could justlike take on a project and then

(09:02):
go to whatever country and workremotely from there.
The major shifts that's happenedsince the early days has been
the rise of remote jobs, so youcan be both a nine to fiver and
someone who is.
You could be, theoretically, adigital nomad as well.
You could go on to a differentcountry every year, every month,

(09:23):
and you could work remotely.
You know, even on the same timezone you might have to like if
you're working for a US company,you might have to work nights
if the time zone demands that.
But yeah, you could.
If you have a fully remote jobin the US and they allow you to
work from other places otherthan the US, then you could take

(09:48):
that job and be a digital nomad.
And so now I meet people thatare more normal working remotely
, if I can say that, whereasnine years ago it was like, oh,
you're here working remotely aswell, wow, what do you do?
And it was a bit more cuttingedge back then because, yeah,

(10:10):
remote jobs.
Really, if you had a remote jobin 2016, and we're working from
Thailand, where I spent most of2016, that was pretty crazy.
But now that that's not.
That's not a crazy idea.

Shawn (10:26):
The real tipping point came in 2020.
Cue the pandemic a global resetbutton that sent knowledge
workers home, pants becameoptional, and it forced
employers to confront aninconvenient truth Most jobs
don't require being in an office.
What they require is a laptop,wi-fi and less micromanagement.

(10:47):
The remote work revolutionwasn't just about flexibility.
It sparked a seismicreevaluation of where life could
happen, and suddenly living ina New York studio apartment that
cost more than a villa in Italystarted to look like a bad deal
.
And politicians around theworld started to realize the
potential in attracting remoteworkers to spend their US

(11:09):
dollars in their countrieswithout tapping the labor market
, creating what has become knownas the digital nomad visa.
Tim Marting, founder of CitizenRemote, which is a global
outfit that helps remote workersand digital nomads resettle in
new locations, explains thisevolution.

With the rise of digital nomad visas, which is
what we'll call it it's morealong the lines of a remote
working visa, but that alsovaries from country to country
there has been an explosion ofcountries that are seeking
longer term tourism, essentially, and that's what happened.
That's why a majority of thesevisas got released.

(11:52):
Majority of these visas gotreleased.
They got released during thepandemic and it essentially
opened up the opportunity forsomebody who doesn't have the
funds to spend $250,000 to$500,000 on an investment visa,
which does give you quickerpathways to citizenship often,
but it essentially opened up arealm for somebody who works

(12:12):
remotely and COVID, pretty mucheveryone did.
But they work remotely, theyhave steady income and countries
realized, hey, we can get thesepeople to come live in our
country and essentiallyalleviate the burden that you
know, the death of tourismduring the COVID era created,
and so, with that, there's stillactually many, many countries

(12:39):
are seeing the benefits of thesetypes of visas, these remote
working visas, and areimplementing them even still
after COVID.

Shawn (12:51):
According to the 2023 MBO Partners Report, over 17
million Americans identified asdigital nomads.
That's a 131% increase frompre-pandemic numbers.
That figure likely undercountsthe long-term travelers and
informal workers who forgot tomention that they were working
from abroad while on touristvisas, that they were working

(13:14):
from abroad while on touristvisas.
And now nomadism has splinteredinto subcultures crypto bros,
spiritual healers, solopreneurs,ai prompt engineers, web
designers, consultants the listis long and it's growing.
But beneath the trendiness,there's a serious shift
happening.
The digital nomad life isn'tjust about escapism anymore.
It's become a viablealternative lifestyle, one that

(13:37):
challenges the assumptions bakedinto American life that your
worth is measured by yourcommute, that proximity to a
cubicle equals productivity,that homeownership and
stress-related ulcers areinevitable milestones.
For many, the appeal lies notjust in the affordability or the

(13:58):
climate, but in a kind oflifestyle autonomy that feels
increasingly out of reach in theUnited States, and the Digital
Nomad Visa is almost perfectlydesigned for people that are
either 1 unsure if they want tomake a permanent move to a new
place, or, 2 priced out of someof the other visa options, such
as investment.
This is David Lesperance, aleading international tax and
immigration advisor and founderof Lesperance Associates,

(14:21):
highlighting this.

David Lesperance (14:25):
Digital nomad visas are certainly within the
reach of middle-class people.
When you think of digitalnomads, the cliche is you know,
a young college graduate with abackpack and a laptop.
But basically, if you canremotely work or you don't need
to be in a location to make andmaintain your wealth, you can

(14:47):
move somewhere on a digitalnomad visa.
So there is the same conceptsare there and by using what is
available to you, with yourparticular family history.
For example, I have a lot ofJewish clients who can make
Aliyah under the law of returnto Israel and get an Israeli

(15:07):
citizenship.
You know, different people havedifferent options to them.
So just because they're not,you know, high net worth doesn't
mean that they don't haveoptions available to them.
So just because they're nothigh net worth doesn't mean that
they don't have optionsavailable to them.

Shawn (15:20):
Still it's not all.
Infinity pools and beachsideZoom calls.
The movement has sparkedbacklash in many places around
the world, where locals aregrappling with rising rents and
overwhelmed infrastructure, asRichard McCall, journalist and
host of the podcast ColumbiaCalling, explains.

Richard McColl (15:41):
You come in as a digital nomad prepared to pay
$1,000, so upwards of 4 millionpesos 4.5 million pesos per
month and you are going to priceout everyone in the local
market, and this is a big issue.
This has led to agentrification of some of the
very nice areas in which to livein Medellin, and this has

(16:05):
created a huge backlash.
I'm not going to lie.
There are even people stickingup posters against this
gentrification and digitalnomads, because a lot of the
time they come in, you know,they use Uber, they use Airbnb,
they do everything online andreally don't even really

(16:26):
interact with the localcommunity and where they are
they could be anywhere in theworld, and this creates a
problem because it doesn't feellike they're participating in
society, and that is a bigproblem.
And then there's another side tothis.
Is that Colombia, because ofthe weak peso that we have and

(16:48):
the strong dollar although thesethings fluctuate and because of
the easy access to illicitdrugs and, of course,
prostitution is legal here.
We're getting a lot of touristswho come down for all on nomad
visas as well, for extendedperiods of times, just to
participate in the bad thingsthat Colombia has to offer, and

(17:10):
so people are lumping togetherthe honest digital nomad or the
honest freelancer with thesewhat we would call sex tourists,
almost a bit like what occurredin Thailand all those years ago
.
I guess it's still going on now.
And so these all end up beinglumped together because they
come down with all of thisdisposable income to splash it

(17:33):
around.
It does increase prices, itdoes create conflict and, you
know, it's a source for greatunrest and well displeasure with
incoming foreigners.
And the other thing is they allseem to gravitate to one of two
areas, let's say in Medellin.

(17:54):
So therefore they feel likesome sort of gringo gulch.

Shawn (18:01):
Some countries have welcomed nomads with open arms
and shiny new visa programs.
Others have responded withcrackdowns and morality clauses.
Digital nomads, people movinginto new places, can also do
their part to ensure that theirmove into a country, into a
region, causes as littledisruption to the local economy
and housing market as possible.

(18:21):
Tim Marting explains somethings to consider.

And so the ways that we would recommend pursuing
, you know, responsibleaccommodation in a country in
which you're relocating to itwould be avoiding something like
an Airbnb, which can oftentimesdisplace locals, finding the
local rates of talking andunderstanding what other people
are paying in that neighborhood,and then also utilizing local

(18:52):
platforms to find accommodationthat is fairly priced.
And so, you know, there's a lotof ways to kind of go about it,
depending on where you're going, but if you talk with locals
and you use local applications,a lot of the times they're going
to be in the local language, sotranslate it, but figuring out
what the rate is that you shouldbe paying, and then paying that

(19:15):
rate, and being stern as wellwith whoever you're utilizing if
it's a real estate agent orsomething like that to say I'm
not going to pay this.
It is difficult, though, evenwith that, because a lot of
times, local communities won'treally give you preference to

(19:35):
relocate there.
So I mean it is a growingproblem.
I don't think that there's anexact, you know, perfect answer
for this.
It is something that it'sreally.
The only drawback to the riseof these visa categories is okay
, you know, you're not taking alocal job.
You're still getting incomefrom abroad, you're spending
locally, you know, promotingbusinesses.

(19:56):
But there is the housingquestion.
So there's a few ways thatcountries have tackled that.
Some have created zones whereyou can't relocate to, so
essentially you can't.
I think Portugal floated thisidea for a bit.
I don't think it's everactually been or come to
fruition, but they were talkingabout sanctioning off Lisbon and
Porto and saying if you want torelocate to Portugal, you'd
have to move outside of themajor city hubs to where you're

(20:20):
essentially moving into acommunity or an area that
doesn't have a thrivingpopulation anyways, and so
you're not really taking localhousing and driving up those
prices.
So there's not really aone-size-fits-all answer to this
.
It's definitely a concern, butto do it responsibly, just make
sure you kind of have therelevant information something
that we can assist with as wellto know that you're not paying

(20:43):
three times what your neighboris paying, because that will
unfortunately displace locals.

Shawn (20:51):
For now.
The digital nomad movementrolls on as more people realize
that freedom might just looklike decent Wi-Fi, warm weather
and a bank account that isn'tbeing drained by $14 salads and
outdated zoning laws.
So let's talk first about Bali.
This is the land of barefootenlightenment, where every
smoothie bowl comes with afrangipani and every co-working

(21:12):
space smells faintly ofsandalwood and ambition.
If you've ever searched digitalnomad on Pinterest, Bali
probably showed up before youfinished typing.
It's been the unofficial capitalof the remote work revolution
since the first MacBook wasopened in a beanbag chair in
Ubud.
Bali's lifestyle appeal isobvious.
You can start your day with asunrise meditation class in Ubud

(21:35):
, then hop on your scooter andzip over to a chic café where
the iced lattes have activatedcharcoal and the Wi-Fi speed
rivals Palo Alto.
By lunch, you're slurping a $3bowl of Mie Goreng while
exchanging crypto tips with aguy from Berlin who swears he's
building a platform.
For many, this is an idylliclife, but if you're moving there

(21:56):
as a digital nomad, you'llstill need to set up a
functional life that allows youto work in addition to play,
Chris Dodd explains.

Chris Dodd (22:07):
Some people have a hard time understanding how you
could work from Bali, becauseI'm not sure what the perception
is in the USA.
But the perception of Bali toAustralians is just, you just go
there for a vacation.
It's kind of like our I don'tknow Cabo or whatever, tijuana
or something, right?

(22:28):
Maybe that's not the mostaccurate example, but like it's
kind of like our vacation spot,right?
So people are like what youlive there and you're productive
there.
They just it doesn't compute,but in their head they're
thinking like of typicalvacation locations.
So like they're thinkingthey're going to take their

(22:48):
computer out at their villa witha pool right in front of them
and and get to work whilethey're drinking a beer.
No, it's a completely similarlifestyle in every city, but
it's just changing the location.
So, no matter what city I'm in,I'm working from a cafe or a
co-working space.

Shawn (23:08):
Ubud remains the spiritual heart Lush, slow,
artsy, it's perfect for writersand healers.
Kangu, on the other hand, ismore like a caffeinated,
tattooed sibling, where everyoneseems to be building a brand
and the beach is more backdropthan destination.
Seminyak is a little morepolished and a little more
expensive.
Still, you can live quite wellfor about $1,500 to $2,000 a

(23:33):
month, and that includes astylish villa complete with
infinity pool, motorbike rental,meals, out massages, gym
membership and enough greenjuice to bankrupt a Los Angeles
juice bar.
So if you're interested, let'stalk about how to get there.
The visas If Bali has a flaw,it's that Indonesia's visa
system is less than intuitive.

(23:54):
There's no official digitalnomad visa yet, but there are a
few workarounds that remoteworkers use, each with their own
mix of logic, legality andlogistical anxiety.
There is the visa on arrivalFor US citizens.
You get 30 days, extendableonce for a total of 60 days, so
it's obviously ideal for shortstays, spontaneous escapes or

(24:16):
commitment issues.
The B211A visa, or the SocialCultural Visa, is your go-to if
you're staying a few months.
Technically, it's intended forcultural exchange and business
meetings, but it's used, to behonest, by digital nomads.
Everywhere You'll lead a localsponsor, and this is easily
arranged through visa agents andit gives you 60 days, which is

(24:37):
extendable up to 180 days total.
The temporary stay permit, orthe KITAS, is for longer stays.
It requires a job offer,investment or retirement status.
So if you're already picturingyourself opening a vegan
kombucha co-op, this could beyour path, but it involves more
paperwork than the previous twovisas.
Finally, there's the secondhome visa.

(24:59):
This came out in 2022.
This is Indonesia's answer towe want your money, but not your
resume crowd.
To qualify, you have to deposit2 billion rupiah, which is
roughly 130,000 US dollars, intoan Indonesian bank account.
You won't get a work permit,but you will get a long-term
visa.
There are whispers of anofficial digital nomad visa, one

(25:21):
that lets you stay for fiveyears without local taxation if
you're employed abroad, but asof now, it's still floating in
legislative limbo, which is tosay, don't hold your breath.
One thing that digital nomadscare about, maybe the first and
only thing, is internet.
The wi-fi in Bali isn't badanymore, at least not if you
know where to go.
Ubud and Canggu have co-workingspaces with fiber optic speeds,

(25:46):
soundproof zoom booths andespresso.
These co-working spaces are allover the place, and some of the
most popular are Outpost andDojo.
As far as health care goes,bali's private clinics are
decent and wildly affordable.
If you need a dental cleaning,that's going to cost about $25.
To visit a general practitioneris going to cost you about $40.

(26:06):
So if you have a minor surfingincident involving a selfie
stick in your face, you'll bepatched up with antibiotics and
a bandage for less than a dinnerat Cheesecake Factory.
For bigger emergencies, manyexpats fly to Singapore or
Bangkok.
They're only a few hours awayand they're home to world-class
hospitals.
It's kind of like a regionalhealthcare strategy.
A popular insurance plan forexpats is Safety Wing, which

(26:29):
sounds like a Marvel spinoff butactually offers decent
international coverage for under$50 a month.
So let's talk a little bit aboutlanguage and culture.
If you've been listening tothis series, you know where I
stand on learning a locallanguage Try.
Just like in most places, youcan get by for the most part
with English.
In the tourist zones in Bali,though, understanding local

(26:50):
customs is critical.
Balinese Hinduism has a rich,visible spiritual life.
Offerings of flowers, incenseand rice appear daily on
sidewalks, temples and motorbikedashboards.
Westerners who stomp throughsacred spaces with their acai
bowls and TikTok dance routineshave, unsurprisingly, prompted

(27:11):
backlash In 2023,.
The local government evenproposed a behavioral guidebook
for tourists.
So, in short, respect theculture, dress modestly in
temples and don't rent a scooterif you can't ride a bicycle.
So Bali is beautiful,breathtakingly so, but it's not
immune to the impact of its ownpopularity.
Traffic is abysmal, athree-mile trip can take 45

(27:35):
minutes, infrastructure isuneven, power outages happen,
water quality is questionableDon't drink the tap water unless
you're eager to lose fivepounds in the next day and
overdevelopment is a problem.
Some parts of Bali are now moreconcrete than coconut.
The quiet island paradise has,in places, become loud and
cultural tension is rising.

(27:56):
With tourism so deeply embeddedin the local economy, there's a
love-hate dynamic there.
Many locals are gracious andwelcoming, but wary of being
treated like set dressing insomeone else's spiritual
awakening.
So make sure to consider this.
Be respectful.

Chawadee Nualkhair (28:19):
Thailand really has it all.
It's not just like the whitelotus thing where you see
beautiful beaches and water andyou know countless resorts, but
it's also there's another sidethe lovely people, great food,
pretty good weather, if you areokay with humidity, and a very
reasonable cost of livingcompared with the US, especially

(28:42):
on the coasts.
So I mean Thailand, and alsoThailand really wants you here.
You know, if you're from abroadand you want to, you know, pull
up roots and come to Thailandand start a new life.
They're happy to have you.
It's not like France, I mean,I'm just imagining, I don't know

(29:05):
, but I mean a place like thatwhere they're just like oh, you
again.
Thailand is like, oh, pleasecome.
Thailand is like oh, pleasecome.

Shawn (29:15):
That was Chawadee Nualkhair, bangkok-based food
writer and journalistspecializing in Thailand's
street food culture, who wasfeatured in Netflix's Somebody
Feed Phil, describing Thailand'sapproach to digital nomads.
If Bali is the spiritualsanctuary of the remote work
movement, then Thailand is itsglobal headquarters, a place
where digital nomads gather notjust to work but to live well

(29:38):
for less in a society that issomehow both wildly chaotic and
delightfully ordered.
You want $1 noodles and a $15massage Done.
You want to befriend a monk onTuesday and then go clubbing on
a rooftop bar on Wednesday?
Thailand has you covered.
And then go clubbing on arooftop bar on Wednesday.
Thailand has you covered.
But as with all good things,there are layers.
Thailand is best enjoyed slowly, with full knowledge of what

(30:00):
you're getting into.
So let's take a look.
First, you have to choose yourbase, and it's not just a
one-size-fits-all situation.
Chiang Mai is the darling ofthe digital nomad world.
Nestled in the Northernmountains, it's peaceful,
affordable and filled withco-working cafes, leafy temples
and digital marketers who claimto only work 10 hours a week.

(30:22):
They're lying, but it ischarming.
And then there's Bangkok.
Chawadee Nualkhair describesher
love for the city.

Every day is truly an adventure, because the
thing with Bangkok this is thething that I just love about
Bangkok it's never the same.
I'm finding new things everyday.
I've lived here for a long timeand every day I learn something
new about this city, thatsomething was hidden from me
before or something just turnedknow, turned up somehow like a

(30:56):
mushroom sprouted overnight,because it's a really fast city,
bangkok, so things are alwayscoming and going, coming and
going it.
It never really is the same,and that and, and some people
don't like that, but I, I really, I really love it.
that's one of my favorite thingsabout bangkok um and so the
food is is a part of that,because it's kind of a cutthroat

(31:16):
kind of scene and you knowthings are coming at you fast
and then they go away.
There's a lot of fads.
It's just fun to follow and Ilike the people.
Even now, even in a big citylike Bangkok, you can find, I
mean, the land of smiles.
It's not Thailand's not.

(31:36):
I wouldn't say Thailand isn'texactly the land of smiles
really, but you can findkindness, you can find help, you
can find nice people everywhere, which is surprising in a big
city like this, and that'sanother thing that I really love
about Bangkok and aboutThailand in general.
People are really really niceoutside of Bangkok and I love

(32:02):
that.
You know, if I go up north afew hours, there's mountains,
and if I go down south a fewhours, there's the beach and
there's different food at each.
Yeah, I just love theversatility of it.
It's also a nice hub, you knowyou can go to Vietnam, you can

(32:22):
go to China, you can go toMalaysia, indonesia, and it's
relatively easy.

Shawn (32:33):
Bangkok is the vibrant, electric, overwhelming capital.
Bangkok is the vibrant,electric, overwhelming capital.
You can work in a skyscraperco-working space during the day
and eat grilled squid from astreet cart under a neon sign at
night.
Bangkok is like New York City,with better food and more
shrines.
And then there are the islands.
For the adventurous, sun-soakedsoul Koh Lanta, koh Phangan and

(32:54):
Koh Samui all have their nomadtribes.
Expect intermittent Wi-Fi,barefoot meetings and the
occasional monkey stealing yourbreakfast.
Realistically, you can livequite well in Chiang Mai for
$1,000 to $1,200 a month.
That includes a modernapartment eating out every day.
I'm not really recommendingthat, but it's possible.

(33:16):
Scooter rental, gym membershipand your share of oat lattes and
foot massages.
Bangkok might stretch youcloser to $1,500 to $2,000 a
month, but you'll get urbanenergy, top-tier healthcare and
endless convenience.
Need a coconut at 3am?
That can happen.
Okay, the visas Thailand's visagame is like playing chess

(33:40):
blindfolded Expect half thepieces are labeled in Thai and
the rules change every quarter.
That said, here are your mainoptions.
First, there's the tourist visaand visa exemption.
So US citizens get 30 days onarrival, which is extendable to
60 at immigration, or you canapply for a 60-day tourist visa
in advance, and that comes witha 30-day extension option, so

(34:03):
it's good for a couple of months, but not a long-term solution.
Then there's the education visa.
Take Thai language, cooking orMuay Thai classes and you'll get
a year-long visa.
Many nomads use this creativelyYou're studying during the day
and threading your toes throughwhite sand on the beach at night
.
If you want to work legally inThailand for a local company,

(34:25):
the business visa is the way.
You'll need a sponsoringemployer and lots of paperwork.
Warning, though Thailand takesillegal work seriously.
Even remote work is a legalgray zone, unless you're on the
right visa.
The Elite visa is, frankly, foranyone with some money.
It costs anywhere from $15,000to $100,000 US dollars and it

(34:47):
gives you 5 to 20 years ofresidency, depending on how much
you pay and airport fast tracks.
It's kind of like TSA PreCheck,but for your entire life in
Thailand.
And then there's the long-termresident visa.
This was introduced in 2022,and it's tailored for work from
Thailand professionals.
It requires a minimum income of$80,000 or $40,000, plus in

(35:09):
advanced degree, you have to beworking for a well-established
foreign company and you have toprove health insurance.
It's promising, but it'stargeted toward high earners, so
in practice, many nomads stilluse tourist visas and extensions
, hopping across borders everyfew months in a ritual known as
the visa run, typically to Laos,malaysia or wherever is cheap

(35:31):
and fast.
It's not exactly legal, but itis extremely common.

It's not exactly legal but it is
extremely common.
Honestly, I find that it's morecomfortable here than in the
United States, especially whenit comes to infrastructure.
We all know about the trafficjams and cars are.
By the way, cars and wine arelike 200 percent more expensive

(35:55):
here than in the US.
So those are bad things aboutThailand because of the tax.
But I don't drive and I've neverhad to drive because there's a
SkyTrain station five minutesaway from my house.
There's a subway station downthe road.
Both are really new, reallyclean and air conditioned to the

(36:17):
gills.
It's so air conditioned, it'sArctic in there and they go
everywhere in the city.
Now there's motorcycle taxis,which are kind of dangerous, I
think, but I love them becausethey're so efficient and fast,
and there's regular taxis andthere's Grab, which is
Thailand's version of Uber.

(36:37):
I really honestly haven't drivenin maybe 15 years and I don't
ever feel the need to do it ever, and I think that's great.
I live near my hairdresser, Ilive near the grocery store, I
live near the nail salon All theimportant places store.

(36:59):
I live near the nail salon, allthe important places.
I, you know, I, just I and theinternet is great On the whole
infrastructure.
I find to be.
I think Thailand's pretty, like, really comfortable.
When I compare it to, like whenI visit my friends in New York
and I go into the subway, youknow it doesn't look that great

(37:20):
the subway.

Shawn (37:21):
You know it doesn't look that great.
As Chawadee Nualkhair explains,public transportation in
Thailand, especially in themajor cities, is world class.
As Chawadee said, you don'tneed a vehicle to get around
easily and efficiently.
In fact, a vehicle could slowyou down.
And as far as the internet goes, thailand knows how to get
online.
Whether you're deep in the cityor tucked away in a jungle
bungalow, you can generallycount on fast, affordable

(37:42):
internet.
Chiang Mai, especially, hassome of the fastest speeds in
the country, and Bangkok'sdigital infrastructure is on par
with any major global city.
Coworking spaces like Punn Spacein Chiang Mai or the Hive in
Bangkok offer air conditioningwhich is critical in Thailand,
and free coffee.
Even cafes are work-friendly.
It's not uncommon to see atable of six people each wearing

(38:06):
noise-canceling headphones andfuriously typing, ignoring each
other entirely my kind ofsocialization, actually.
It's also worth mentioning foodin Thailand.
It can be very adventurous andmight be somewhat shocking to an
average American.
Many people are drawn toThailand for the food, but if
you're a little less willing totry something outside your

(38:27):
comfort zone, you'll still dofine in Thailand.
Here's Chawati Nwalkar again.

The street food culture is the easiest way
to get into Thai culture.
Basically, it's the easiest wayto meet Thai people.
It's the easiest way to observeThai people and you know how
they eat, how they interact andpossibly make friends.
So and it's, it's open toeveryone.
I mean the street food is, theareas are being curtailed more

(38:58):
and more by the government, butthere's still street food out
there and it's kind of like theThai food 101 of Thai food.
There's the noodles, there'spad thai, there's pad see ew,
the soup noodles, tzuyu, thesoup noodles.
I find that these are theeasiest things for people to eat

(39:20):
.
I take people on food tours allthe time and most of them are
Americans, and I usually stopfirst at fried noodle places,
because those are the thingsthat everybody enjoys.
Who doesn't like rice?
Know noodles, or rice noodlescharred a little bit at the
bottom with some soy sauce andand, uh, pork or beef or chicken

(39:44):
, it's, you know, and some egg,it's, it's delicious.
So I I think fried noodles aregreat.
Um, the dough, fried, dough,fritters, I mean.
I could just go on and on andon about the food, but what I
mean?
I think the Thai food can beaccessible and and user friendly
.
If you know what you're lookingfor and you know exactly what

(40:07):
dishes.
If you do a little research,you know what dishes that you
can, you can try.
There's also, you know,restaurants in hotels that are
very, you know, friendly topeople who are trying out Thai
food for the first time.
But honestly, you know a lot ofthe expats here.
They don't eat Thai food.

(40:27):
You can go without eating Thaifood.
You can eat Georgian food,lebanese, so much Japanese food.
The community here is enormous.
You can eat French food.
So much Italian food it's crazy.
Turkish food anything, anythingbut Thai food.

(40:48):
A lot of expats kind of live ina little bubble.

Shawn (40:53):
Okay.
So what if you have anunexpected bout of spicy
noodle-induced collapse?
Thai healthcare is enviable.
Thailand's private hospitalsare excellent, particularly in
Bangkok.
Facilities like BumrungradInternational Hospital and
Bangkok Hospital areinternationally accredited and
often have English-speakingdoctors with US or UK training.

(41:15):
You might actually findyourself enjoying a hospital
visit, if only for the freejuice boxes and the fact that a
full workup costs less than yourlast dentist appointment in
Boise.
Expat insurance plans arewidely available and many people
combine local coverage withinternational plans like Cigna
Global or Safety Wing.
A doctor's visit may run $20 to$50, and full coverage plans

(41:39):
often cost $100 to $200,000 amonth.
Americans arriving in Thailandwill most likely experience some
culture shock.
That will take some adjustmentand getting used to, as Chawadee
Nualkhair describes.

You have to change your mindset a little bit
, I think.
I mean, I know a lot of expatsand there are expats who come
here and they fall in love andthey stay here forever.
And then there are expats whoare just basically miserable and
counting out the days till theycan go back home.
And the ones who count out thedays so they can go back home
expect everything to be like itis in america, and it's not

(42:19):
there's.
If things don't work the sameway, because it's a different
country in a different cultureand and people act differently
and people were brought updifferently.
So it's.
You know, there's differentpriorities, different way of
thinking.
Th Thailand is slower, forexample.
It's a slower paced countrybecause it's so hot.

(42:39):
Even walking down the streetyou can't do the New York hustle
, go, go, go kind of thing.
Believe me, because I've triedto do that.
Everyone walks too slow for meon the sidewalk and it drives me
nuts, honestly, especially likethe four across on the sidewalk
.
Nuts, honestly, especially likethe four across on the

(43:01):
sidewalks.
But the slower pace is justpeople acclimating to the heat
and me like an idiot walkinglike so fast.
I'm pouring sweat by the time Ireach the SkyTrain station or
my it's.
I'm constantly fighting withthe humidity and the and the and
the weather even now.
I moved to.
I moved to bangkok in 1995.

(43:22):
I've seen a lot of thingschange.
I've lived most of my life herein bangkok now.
But this, this walking thing,is something I will never be
able to acclimatize myself to,to change my ways.
But it's one of the symptoms, Iguess, of changing your way of

(43:46):
thinking, of being like why areyou in a hurry?
It's still going to be there.
So you know, meetings start alittle bit later.
Work starts a little bit laterIf you're the manager of
somebody.
Be prepared.
Thais eat breakfast at theoffice.
There's nothing that you can doabout it.

(44:06):
Meals are the most importantthing in the world to Thai
people, so you know you can'thave them do anything.
Nothing starts until they'veeaten breakfast and it has to be
at the office.
It's just one of the littlequirks about office life in
Thailand.

Shawn (44:21):
Thailand is famously known as the land of smiles.
What's less discussed is thatthose smiles come in at least 13
different varieties, rangingfrom I'm delighted to I'm
furious, but socially obligatedto remain polite.

Here's Chawadee again obligated to
remain polite.
Here's Chawadee again, and theconcept of face, which I think
many Americans don't get, isstill the ones who've lived here
for years and years.
Calling somebody out to theirface to say they're wrong in a
crowded space, or challengingthem in a crowded space in the

(44:55):
name of the truth or whatever,is not appreciated.
Everybody just wants harmony.
Everybody just wants everybodyto be happy and to like be cool
Again.
Nobody wants somebody to likebe embarrassed and then having
to like try to fix it in someway that puts a burden on us,

(45:18):
you know.
So like ignoring someone's faceor, like, you know, causing
someone to lose face in that wayis not only a problem for the
person who lost face, but it's aproblem for everybody else and
it makes you kind of jerk.

Shawn (45:36):
English is widely spoken in Bangkok and Chiang Mai, less
so in rural areas or governmentoffices.
That said, even a few words ofThai will go a long way.
Just learning how to say thankyou will earn you goodwill and
possibly an extra scoop of rice.
Thai culture prizes, respect,calmness and a general sense of

(45:56):
not losing your cool.
Yelling, arguing or making ascene.
All beloved American pastimesare frowned upon here.
If you have a problem, smile,take a breath and say mai pen
rai, roughly translated as noworries, it's okay, or what can
you do?
I want to take a minute here tohighlight the atmosphere in
Thailand specifically for LGBTQfolks.

(46:18):
Thailand is widely consideredone of the most LGBTQ-friendly
countries in Asia, and thatreputation is well-earned.
Bangkok in particular has athriving queer nightlife scene,
and Chiang Mai is welcoming andlow-key.
While the country has yet tolegalize same-sex marriage,
though it's in the works, thesocial atmosphere is generally

(46:40):
tolerant, if not openlycelebratory, outside of the most
urban areas.
Transgender visibility is alsohigh, particularly in
entertainment and beauty sectors, though trans rights still do
lag behind.
The vibe overall is easygoing,layered and endlessly
fascinating.
While Bali and Thailand get thelion's share of love and

(47:02):
Instagram reels, it would be amistake to ignore the quieter,
steadier players in the region.
Malaysia and the Philippineshave been steadily building
digital nomad street credwithout the crowds, the yoga
cults or the constant sound ofsomeone nearby doing a guided
breathwork session.
Let's start with Malaysia.
Kuala Lumpur, malaysia'scapital, has got the skyline of

(47:24):
a megacity, the street food of ahawker center and a public
transportation system that makesAmerican cities look like
they're still waiting for thehorse and buggy to catch on.
So ways into Malaysia includethe DE Rentau Nomad Pass.
Launched in 2022,.
This Nomad Pass is a realdigital nomad visa, not a
cobbled-together workaround.

(47:44):
To qualify, you must be aremote worker or freelancer in
digital industries, so IT,marketing, content creation, etc
.
You need to earn at least$24,000 a year and the visa
lasts up to 12 months and it isextendable.
So that's a legit, low-barriernomad visa in Southeast Asia.

(48:05):
The cost of living in Malaysiais relatively inexpensive.
A modern studio in Kuala Lumpurmight cost $500 a month,
utilities included.
You can get lunch for $2.
And public transit is cheap,clean and punctual Three things
you can rarely say aboutanything involving wheels in
Southeast Asia.
Even upscale neighborhoods likeMount Kiara offer high-rise

(48:27):
condos with gyms, pools andenough air conditioning to
freeze a horse.
So, as far as budgeting for adigital nomad, you'll spend
about $1,200 to $1,600 a monthfor comfort, and less if you're
scrappy.
Kuala Lumpur also has excellentinternet, plenty of co-working
spaces check out Common Groundor Work with a queue and a

(48:48):
strong cafe culture.
You can sip your flat white ina Scandinavian-themed coffee
shop while responding to Slackmessages, all without a lag.
Need to hop on a call with NewYork or London?
No problem.
Time zones line up decentlywith both hemispheres and power
outages are rare.
Malaysia's healthcare is ahidden gem.
Private hospitals like PrinceCourt Medical Center are modern.

(49:11):
They're well-staffed andsurprisingly inexpensive.
A checkup might run you about$30-50, and specialist
appointments are easy toschedule.
There's no three-month waitinglist just to be told you're fine
but probably should hydratemore.
And insurance, sure, get it,but many expats just pay out of
pocket and still spend lessannually than they would on a

(49:31):
single ER visit in the US.
English is widely spoken,especially in urban areas.
Signs, menus, doctors andbureaucrats all operate in a
bilingual environment.
So you won't need to mime yourway through a pharmacy visit,
unless you just enjoy theperformance.
Culturally, malaysia is afascinating mix.
Enjoy the performance.
Culturally, malaysia is afascinating mix.

(49:53):
Malay, chinese, indian andindigenous influences blend into
a complex but welcoming society.
It's also predominantly Muslim,meaning modest dress is
appreciated, especially outsideurban centers, but the
atmosphere is largely tolerantand chill.
You'll find plenty of bars andnightlife in Kuala Lumpur and
Penang.
It's not Saudi Arabia, it'sjust respectful.

(50:15):
Finally, let's talk about thePhilippines, which is in many
ways the easiest culturallanding pad for Americans in
Southeast Asia.
English is an official language, american brands are everywhere
, the people are friendly, funnyand genuinely curious about
your story, and not in atrying-to-sell-you-a-bracelet
kind of way.
And yet it's oddly overlookedby digital nomads, and the

(50:37):
reason might be that thePhilippines doesn't yet have a
formal digital nomad visa.
But it compensates by offeringone of the most generous tourist
visa systems in the region.
Us citizens get 30 days onarrival and can extend their
stay up to 36 months.
Yes, 3 years, as long as youkeep renewing, and those
renewals are cheap and easy anddon't require visa runs.

(51:00):
You just pop into a Bureau ofImmigration office.
For many nomads, thissimplicity is a huge win.
No visa gymnastics, just slowbureaucracy.
There's also the SRRV, theSpecial Resident Retirees Visa,
which is technically forretirees, but some younger
applicants can sneak in via theinvestment option.

(51:21):
You can live comfortably in manyplaces in the Philippines, even
in parts of Manila, for $1,000to $1,400 a month.
That includes housing, food,transportation and some degree
of social life, though if you'rean introvert you might find
yourself over-socialized here,filipinos are famously outgoing
and may adopt you within days.

(51:42):
Housing ranges from very basicat $300 a month to full-on,
resort-adjacent condos withocean views at about $900 a
month.
And yes, those are real prices,so don't feel like it's a scam
if you see it.
Okay, but the internet?
Let's be honest.
The internet here is betterthan it used to be, but it's

(52:03):
still not great.
The major cities like Manilahave decent speeds, but the
rural areas are dicey.
Fiber internet is spreadingslowly, like really slowly.
That said, major providers likePLDT and Globe offer decent
home plans and many condos comepre-wired.
Coworking spaces are stillemerging, but you can find them

(52:26):
in the main cities.
Some nomads keep backup SIMcards and mobile data dongles
just in case.
It's not romantic, but neitheris losing connection during a
client call.
Healthcare in the Philippines isnot bad for the price.
Big cities have good privatehospitals with English-speaking
doctors, clinics in smallertowns, not quite Mayo Clinic but

(52:46):
functional.
Private insurance is availableand it's cheap.
Many just pay cash for routinevisits.
There's also a nationalinsurance program, philhealth,
which foreigners can technicallyjoin if they become residents.
Still, for anything serious,many expats fly to Thailand or
Malaysia, which says a lotCulturally.
It's jarring how familiar thePhilippines feels to Americans.

(53:10):
Filipinos grow up watchingAmerican TV, eating fast food
and speaking English.
But where Americans bringanxiety and lawsuits, filipinos
bring laughter and coconut rice.
Expect to be called sir orma'am with disarming sincerity.
Expect karaoke at inopportunemoments, which for me is any

(53:30):
moment.
Expect to be invited tobirthdays by people you
literally just met, but alsoexpect resilience.
The country's been throughcolonization, typhoons,
political turmoil and stillmanages to laugh more than any
place you've ever been.
Okay, those are the fourcountries in Southeast Asia that
offer some great opportunitiesto work as a digital nomad, but

(53:52):
there are two other things thatI.
Some great opportunities towork as a digital nomad, but
there are two other things thatI think are important to talk
about, things that are probablytop of mind for most considering
a move abroad, regardless ofwhere they're going.
The first is safety.
Petty theft in Southeast Asiaexists Phones lifted from
pockets, bags snatched fromscooters.
But let's be real.
If you've ever walked alone atnight in downtown Miami, you

(54:13):
already know how to keep yourwits about you.
Thailand and Malaysia feelespecially safe.
Bali has some theft, mostlyopportunistic.
The Philippines warm people, butsome areas, especially Mindanao
, are best avoided due topolitical conflict.
Stick to the main islands andtourist-friendly zones.
Most of the real dangers comenot from crime, but from

(54:35):
scooters, dogs and your ownoverconfidence.
Natural disasters are also athing to consider.
This is Southeast Asia.
Things move, rain falls,sometimes volcanoes get twitchy.
Here's the short list Typhoonsin the Philippines, mostly
between June and October.
Earthquakes in Indonesia yes,including Bali.
Flooding in Thailand andMalaysia, especially during

(54:58):
rainy season.
Occasional eruptions ofnationalism, mostly metaphorical
, occasionally not.
The solution is to have a plan,know where the embassy is, keep
copies of your documents and ifyou live in a tsunami zone,
maybe don't sleep at sea level.
The other thing to talk abouthere not specific to Southeast
Asia, but important is if you'reconsidering a move abroad.

(55:19):
The fantasy goes something likethis Move to a tropical country
, find a tribe of like-mindedwanderers, develop a six-pack
without trying and fall in lovewith a tattooed barista named
Luca.
But the reality you may spendyour first weeks alone watching
lizards on the ceiling andwondering why your phone only
lights up for two-factorauthentication requests.
Yes, there's a huge digitalnomad community out there, but

(55:43):
it's transient, fragmented andsometimes a bit performative.
It's like dating apps lots ofsurface connections, not always
depth.
You'll meet people, for sure,but real connection takes time,
and time gets slippery whenpeople are always coming and
going.
You make a friend.
They moved into Nang.
You start dating.
They're on a visa run.
You plan a hike, they'resuddenly in a 10-day silent

(56:05):
retreat.
Chris Dodd has had some similarexperiences.

Chris Dodd (56:13):
Well see, this is the thing it's like.
That's part of the.
So that's part of the decisionon where you go to is how easy
it is going to be to meet people.
It's more challenging for me tomeet people back in my home
city than in this community,because people are looking to
meet people in this communityand so if you travel to the

(56:35):
typical places where there'sfull of foreigners or digital
nomads, it's very easy to meetpeople Now to build long lasting
friendships or connections.
Some people struggle because,as easy as it is to meet these
people, they might leave or itmight not be easy to build that
relationship with them becauseyou're not stuck together for a

(56:58):
long period of time, and that isa downside to a lot of people.
I remember speaking to someonewhen I was in I won't say names,
but I have a friend in SaoPaulo who used to tell me that
he enjoyed being in the oneplace and just having his four
friends and that was his life,you know.

(57:18):
And then he had consistency withhis friend group.
I like having consistency withmy friend group, but I also want
to meet new people all the time, like.
I'm very much about expandingmy network, expanding my social
circle.
I like to constantly meet newpeople.
So the pro and con of that,like the yin and yang of that, I
actually would value a bit moreof meeting people, and I'm

(57:43):
happy to sacrifice the fact thatyou know they might leave or
we're not going to be in thesame city all year round.
So, yeah, if you're wanting tolive this lifestyle and you
worry about meeting people, youjust simply go to the hotspots
and plug in with the community,either via WhatsApp chats or go

(58:06):
to a popular co-working space orliterally go to talks and
meetups that people have planned, and there's so many community
initiatives for digital nomadsaround the world.
You just got to go to the rightdestinations and it's super
easy to meet people.

Shawn (58:22):
Despite all of this, you can find community, but it won't
always look how you expect.
In Chiang Mai, you might findit in a co-working space where
no one talks for the first week,but eventually someone invites
you to a night market andeverything changes.
In Bali, it might be abreathwork class where everyone
sobs in unison and then grabscoffee like nothing happened.

(58:42):
I make light of this becauseI've been in this exact
situation In Kuala Lumpur.
You'll meet other expats attrivia night who are more stable
than they let on, and in thePhilippines it might be your
neighbor who brings you mangoesand advice in the same breath.
Swati Nawalkar describes howAmericans can meet people, make
friends and build community inThailand.

It's not easy at first, it is daunting.
You know the way I did.
It was by, you know, going towork and working in a Thai
office.
But if you don't have thatluxury then you're you know,
you're going to have to do itthrough hobbies like yoga or
paddleboarding, through thewomen's clubs.

(59:29):
Ironically, the AmericanWomen's Club is a way that a lot
of Thai women get to meetAmerican women and so there's
like a cultural exchange thatway, because they're the Thai
spouses of American husbands.
I mean it's the way anybody hasto meet people in a big city, I
suppose by having a similarinterest.

(59:50):
I mean I found myself a coupleof months ago going to this
pottery painting class, likelike I mean anyone who knows me
would know.
I mean I suck, I'm terrible atit.
It's like you know watchinglike a moose, like try to slap
paint on, like you know, agarage door or something.

(01:00:10):
But you know I was doing itbecause somebody you know, a new
friend, had invited me and itwas just something that I feel
like I had to do, but it's.
You know, you just findyourself doing all these, all
these strange things in the name, in the pursuit of friendship,
and I think that it's the sameall over the world cooking

(01:00:30):
classes, whatnot.
There's a thing called thescience society, where people go
on trips together and all overthe country and talk about, you
know, arcane stuff like well,it's not arcane, but talk about
like highbrow stuff, liketextiles and architecture, and
blah, blah, blah, mean there's,there's something for everybody.

(01:00:52):
If you look hard enough,there's even a roller derby.
I mean, I never would havethought about that.
But there's also like a kind ofversion of, like the rest, like
the wwf.
I think this is the sameeverywhere.
Um, that you just have to kindof extend yourself a little bit,

(01:01:13):
at least at the beginning,especially if you don't have the
luxury of work or school tocall back on.

Shawn (01:01:21):
True community usually shows up slowly through
repetition and small rituals thesame cafe each morning, the
familiar face at the gym, thelocal cashier who starts asking
how your day was.
Be patient, say yes and beproactive.
Offer help, introduce yourselfand consider staying still long

(01:01:42):
enough to be remembered.
If you're only in one place,one time, nobody will get to
know you.
The emotional journey of beinga digital nomad is not a linear
ascent into happiness.
It's a wobbly path paved withnew friendships, small
humiliations, big wins and analmost religious appreciation
for working plumbing.
You will change.

(01:02:02):
That's the deal.
Whether it's for a few monthsor a few years, you'll learn to
live differently and that'sworth something, even if you do
still miss Trader Joe's.
Okay, so, after discussingthese options Bali, thailand,
malaysia and the Philippineslet's say you're standing at
your metaphorical departure gate, carry on in hand and wondering
which of these great options isfor me.

(01:02:24):
So let's make this really easy.
If you want smooth bureaucracy,a legit remote work, visa,
diverse food and solidhealthcare, malaysia might be
your best option.
It's best for planners,introverts and budget-conscious
remote workers.
It's slightly lessInstagrammable, yes, but far
more livable, and the bonus isyou'll never be far from curry.

(01:02:46):
If you want tropical lifestyle,surf, spirituality and an
absurd number of Australiansnamed Blake or Chris Dodd, bali
might be for you.
It's best for wellness junkies,creatives, yogis and crypto
bros with man buns.
It's beautiful and chaotic, butbring patience for traffic and
a sturdy scooter helmet.

(01:03:07):
If you want vibrant city life,street food, co-working, utopia
and a spiritual side quest,consider Thailand.
It's best for first-time nomads, long-haul remote workers and
people who think they'll onlystay six months and end up
staying six years.
Go to Bangkok for big city buzzand Chiang Mai for peace and
pad thai.

(01:03:27):
And finally, if you want awestern adjacent vibe, friendly
locals and the ability to getyour feelings out at karaoke,
the Philippines is calling you.
It's best for extroverts,english-only speakers and anyone
who's still emotionallyattached to Costco.
The infrastructure isn'tperfect, but you'll feel like
you belong within a week.

(01:03:59):
Imagine your future self sixmonths or maybe a year from now.
You've figured out how toextend your visa without tearing
your hair out.
You know which street stall hasthe best noodles.
You've made a couple friends.
You've lost your fear of smalldogs and large insects.
You've remembered what it feelslike to not be exhausted all
the time.

(01:04:19):
And even if you go back to theUS.
Someday, you'll go back changed, because you'll know that the
world didn't end when you left.
In fact, it began.
If this episode sparkedsomething in you a question, a
plan, a passive-aggressiveconversation with your boss
about remote work then stickaround, because in next week's

(01:04:39):
episode my husband Pavel,returns to the pod and we talk
to some of our friends, Heidiand Tony, who ended up
unexpectedly living in thePhilippines, about their
experience, what they loved,what they didn't love if they'd
go back, and much, much more.
This is Leaving America,because sometimes home isn't

(01:05:00):
where you started.
Thank you.

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Leaving America E6: The Digital Nomad Life - Southeast Asia

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