February 28, 2025 • 48 mins
🎙️ EP#282 | GUEST | The Ukraine Project: A Deep Dive with Christine Lynn
In this episode of Deep Shallow Dive, Ray Doustdar welcomes historian and geopolitical analyst Christine Lynn for an in-depth discussion on the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Christine, an expert on Russia with over 30 years of published work, provides an alternative perspective on the war, challenging the mainstream narrative. She argues that Russia’s 2022 "Special Military Operation" (SMO) was a necessary and justified action, rather than an unprovoked invasion. She details the historical context, the role of NATO expansion, and the 2014 U.S.-backed Maidan coup that overthrew Ukraine’s democratically elected president, Victor Yanukovych.
Christine explains how the conflict has its roots in decades of Western interference, including the persecution of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the Donbass region. She criticizes Western media for pushing Russophobic propaganda and highlights the economic and strategic interests behind the "Ukraine Project." The conversation also covers the role of military contractors, U.S. foreign policy, and the possibility of peace negotiations under a new U.S. administration.
The discussion takes a broader turn into global politics, including the military-industrial complex, corruption among U.S. politicians, and the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline. Christine also shares insights into Russia’s leadership, particularly Vladimir Putin’s governance, approval ratings, and Russia’s geopolitical stance. The episode closes with speculation on the future of the conflict, whether Trump will end U.S. involvement, and what steps Russia might take next.
Top 5 Key Points:
🔹 U.S. & NATO’s Role: Christine argues that the U.S. and NATO deliberately escalated tensions with Russia for decades, violating past agreements and using Ukraine as a proxy.
🔹 2014 Maidan Coup: The U.S. played a key role in overthrowing Ukraine’s neutral president, Victor Yanukovych, leading to years of persecution against Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
🔹 Media Misinformation: Western media has shaped public opinion with biased narratives, omitting crucial historical context about U.S. aggression and NATO expansion.
🔹 Nord Stream Pipeline Destruction: Christine believes the U.S. had the most to gain from the pipeline’s destruction and that prior public statements by U.S. officials support this theory.
🔹 Future of the War: She sees a possible diplomatic resolution but believes Russia will not concede to NATO-backed peacekeepers or return liberated territories.
Keywords:
Russia, Ukraine, NATO expansion, Special Military Operation, Vladimir Putin, Volodymyr Zelensky, Maidan Coup, U.S. foreign policy, military-industrial complex, Nord Stream pipeline, corruption, Donbass region, media propaganda, geopolitical strategy, global hegemony, sanctions, U.S. military bases, European Union, NATO peacekeepers, diplomacy, economic warfare, BRICS, Cold War history, Minsk Agreements, American intervention, Victoria Nuland, war profiteering.
Chapters & Timestamps:
00:01 - Introduction
03:03 - Understanding Russia’s Special Military Operation
09:57 - The 2014 Maidan Coup & U.S. Involvement
19:54 - NATO: Past & Present
28:40 - The Ukraine Project & Military-Industrial Complex
36:45 - Who Blew Up the Nord Stream Pipeline?
41:51 - Putin’s Leadership & Russian Public Opinion
47:24 - What’s Next? The Future of the Conflict
🔥 Did you enjoy this episode? Drop a comment and let us know your thoughts! Stay tuned for a future episode where Christine returns to discuss the religious and spiritual dimensions of the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The following podcast is a deep,shallow dive production and
you're gonna love it. OK, let's go.
So anyway, I prepped to this or I prepped the audience yesterday
on you. And the thing I told him was
(00:20):
that in addition to your knowledge base on this topic of
Russia and Ukraine, what I like the most is that you are a white
American lady. And I and I told everybody, I
mean that in a unbelievably respectful way.
But it also is important because, you know, as you and I
have talked a lot of times when it comes to whether it's
(00:43):
Ukraine, Russia, you know, Gaza,Israel, Palestine, Israel,
whatever the case may be, when, when an audience thinks a person
has skin in the game. And in this case, let's say you
had, you know, Russian or Ukrainian heritage or something
like that, then then it tends tobias.
But since you don't, I'm excited.
(01:04):
All right, everybody, I talked to you guys about this
yesterday, but Christine Lynn ishere and we are going to have an
awesome, awesome discussion about the Russia Ukraine
situation. So let me let me set the stage a
little and read everybody your, your, your impressive bio and
then we'll kind of go from there.
But Christine is a historian, geopolitical analyst, and expert
(01:27):
on Russia. Her articles have been published
in magazines and newspapers for over 30 years, and she's
authored 4 books. She's appeared as a guest on
numerous talk shows, radio, TV and podcasts, and we are glad to
have her today on the deep shallow dive.
For decades, she's been a vocal opponent of what she considers
American and NATO aggression andsays that as a historian, she
(01:52):
understood and believed from thestart that Russia's 2022 special
military operation was the righteous action it had to take,
and not, as President Biden and every other media outlet said,
Putin's brutal invasion. All right, Christine, welcome.
(02:13):
Hi, it's a pleasure to be with you, Ray.
Very happy to be here. Let's shed some light on all
that lying propaganda that the Americans have been subjected to
from their government and media.And it's gone on against Russia,
the cirrusophobia for decades. And so I'm very happy to be here
and join you and your audience. Well, well, I appreciate it.
All right, So let's do this because what we really try to do
(02:36):
here or what I really try to do is, you know, break things down
and we're going to go deep, but we're going to stay shallow and
we'll dive in. Where do you want to start?
Should we start at the end of the Cold War in terms of like
199091 or do you want to start alittle bit later?
Where do you think a good is to start to explain what's going
(03:00):
on? Well, I think I would like to
share with your audience first what is most recent in regards
to the SM as to why the Russian Federation did this.
And I think we can easily work back because behind that it does
go back for decades, the Cold War and in prior to the Cold War
(03:21):
actually, in terms of this falsified narrative that Russia
or the Soviet Union at the time was a threat to the United
States. But I'd like to talk about the
SMO since it's on everybody's mind right now with the
negotiations as they are, and let's work our way back.
OK, let's let's do that. And and when you say SMO, you
(03:42):
mean special military operation.So OK, let's do that.
Let's let's start with today. It sounds like Zielinski now has
kind of his back up against the wall against the wall.
You know, him and Biden seem to be buddy buddy and it doesn't
look like him and Trump are that.
So tell us, tell us what you think I guess is going to happen
(04:05):
next. Well, in, in terms of what's
going to happen next, I'm going to 1st emphasize since the media
and our government, the US government has repeatedly caught
it a brutal invasion. And it makes me laugh.
Sadly. It's a tragedy to have all of
this loss of life. But yeah, I think in terms of
right now, in terms of Trump, the Trump administration, it's
(04:27):
most certainly better. How crazy was it for the Biden
administration to have no contact with a superpower such
as the Russian Federation? But in terms of what happened in
Ukraine, this has been escalating a necessitating Putin
to do something about it for decades.
And I would like to tell your audience what the necessity of
(04:49):
that. And I call it a righteous action
because number one, there were thousands of persons in the
Donbass, which is part of Ukraine that were being
persecuted, were being murdered,being raped, the atrocities that
were going on for eight years asthey asked the Russian
Federation for help. The Ukrainian government ever
(05:11):
since the coup, which you and I will get into later in the USA
backed coup in 2014 of the people there are Russian
speakers, they're essentially Russian.
They are members of the Russian Orthodox Church or the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church, which has been tragically replaced by what I
call the CIA church now by the United States.
But they were persecuted for speaking Russian.
(05:33):
They were not permitted to speakRussian.
Their textbooks for their children actually taught the
children that the Ukraine was never a part of the Soviet
Union, never mentioned that it was a part of it.
But the atrocities and the constant shelling and it's what
is happening now even today as we speak, Ray of the Ukrainians
(05:53):
commit atrocities. They shell the civilian towns,
the supermarkets, the grocery stores, the hospitals.
They're even sitting there drones against civilian cars at
this time. And it was time for the Russian
Federation to come in, recognizethem, accept their ascension,
and defend them because as it was, for eight years, thousands
(06:14):
of people were murdered and there were rape rooms.
It's disgusting. And we're finding even now in
the cursed region, more such atrocities.
That was what was life was like for so many of these Russian
speaking Ukrainians. So that was part of the reason
Putin started the special military operation.
And #2 which I think we'll elaborate upon, is the NATO
(06:36):
expansion. I remember in 2007, President
Putin at the Munich Security Conference that said, what is
this about? Who is this?
Who is this against? Because it continued to expand
despite the lies. And they were lies.
Because we know for a fact from the national security archives
that even going back as far as George HW Bush at that at the
(07:01):
time when Baker was negotiating with Gorbachev, you know, at the
collapse of the Soviet Union, there were multiple times that
they were promised no NATO expansion.
Putin himself has said, and he'sa very patient man, I must say,
when they call this a brutal, the only thing brutal has been
what the Ukrainians have done tothe people in those four
regions. The Russian Federation needed to
(07:22):
step in for those people's sake.And they also needed to step in
to defend the Russian Federationbecause the number one goal of
the United States for decades, state at goal and all of their
documents is the strategic defeat of Russia.
And it came a time where he had to put a stop to it.
OK, OK. All right, that's a lot.
All right, let me ask you a couple things.
(07:42):
One is, do you have any idea, interms of the death toll, how
many Ukrainians have lost their lives since 2022?
I would first of all say don't listen to Trump.
He appears to get his information from the Ukrainians
or his people around him, which is a joke, All of the lies that
they have said. I'm not going to speculate.
(08:03):
I do actually since the beginning followed the, you
know, battleground and the deaths.
But I would estimate that the Ukrainian loss is probably
anywhere from five to seven times the loss of the Russian
Federation soldiers. But I've read various numbers.
I'm not going to attempt to estimate, but I could say
(08:24):
there's. No, but I mean, are we talking
like 100,000 Ukrainians, 500,000?
Far more. I mean, I would probably say
somewhere around 700,800 thousand and perhaps and I feel
that that is a conservative estimate and that's a tragedy.
This did not have to happen. This is all because.
(08:46):
That's an unbelievable tragedy. And those are the numbers I've
heard. I've, I've heard north of
700,000 Ukrainians have died since 2022.
That is an insane number. OK, let's talk about this.
You mentioned the eight years since basically, I'm assuming
(09:06):
2014. Why don't you explain to us,
because I've talked about this several times, but it would be
good to hear your perspective. The Viktor Yanukovych situation
in 2014 where I'll set the stage.
He was democratically elected. And from what I've gathered, he
basically wanted to, you know, kind of be neutral.
(09:30):
He wanted to not necessarily be fully aligned with the Russians,
not wouldn't necessarily be fully aligned with NATO turn the
Americans. And from my research, that
seemed like the US got to a point where they're like, yeah,
you know what? No.
And so they backed, I believe it's called the Maidan
(09:50):
something. But they overthrew him.
That's how I understand it. Am I missing anything?
No, that's idiot even began before them in terms of you,
Nickovich and the elections prior to that and the Orange
Revolution. But yes, we're going to start
right there. What is the most recent history?
He was the duly elected president of Ukraine and the
(10:13):
United States was very unhappy with that.
NATO was very unhappy with that because it was neutrality.
There are those who claim, oh, he was pro Russian.
I don't see it that way. And I really took a look at his
policies and when it served him to do transactions with the
Russian Federation, he did so. When it was with the EU, he did
so. But they cannot accept the
(10:35):
sovereign decisions of such a country.
They only won't vassal. And then what you were Speaking
of is the Madan coup. And that is when it came to a
head in 2014. And it was a tragic event.
And the key for people to understand this was AUS backed
coup, the subsequent leader and then thereafter the election and
(10:58):
Zelinsky was planned. And we have actually the phone
calls, the phone call on the notorious phone call, Victoria
Newland prior to 2014 discussingwho the United States wanted to
come in and be the next president.
Now, again, this is before the coup.
And of course, your audience should understand that billions
(11:20):
of dollars had been put into Ukraine and also training of the
people who were going to be there on that particular day.
Bloody, bloody madon coup. There were snipers that were
placed and the Western narrativewas that these snipers were, you
know, killing, killing the police and killing the.
But what it turned out to be is these were Western training
(11:42):
snipers. I think some of them were
trained in Poland, and they shotboth the police and the
demonstrators. This was not a natural organic
revolution by any means. This was a planned coup by the
United States busing in those who would do the protest.
And they blamed all the deaths that day.
And it was they set fire to the building.
(12:06):
People actually died in the fireas well as the snipers, but the
snipers were there to shoot bothsides and blame it all upon
Yanukovich's government. And of course, to me, it's just
a clear example to me, in my opinion, the CIA deposed him.
Much money went into this. Billions of dollars had already
(12:26):
gone into Ukraine preparing for this because it was always going
to be the proxy to be used against Russia.
But the civilians died. It was horrible.
And they blamed it and said as if this was the people.
And of course, that's the way the United States operates all
over the world. They have orchestrated such
coups. And for me, everything they're
(12:46):
after is illegitimate the the president that they they put in
the subsequent election because everything then was taken over
by the United States and and theUK.
OK, OK. And so that's the Maidan coup
that took place in 2014. It got rid of Viktor Yanukovych.
(13:07):
And then was was that guy Petro Poroshenko?
Was that the guy that then took power?
It was an interim on prior to that the 1 Newland had spoken
about and then they moved to himand then to Zielinski, who ran,
by the way. Zielinski ran on a peace
platform. Everyone knows the comedian,
(13:29):
quote, comedian if you want to call it that, his antics on
stage and the type of performances.
But that thing, you know, that was his career.
But he ran on a peace platform that he was going to make peace
with the parts of Ukraine where there was the fighting and all
of that going on. And, you know, to me, the sad
thing about it is we can focus upon Biden who made this
(13:51):
horrible, but all of our US presidents have been complicit
in this. In fact, this is just very sad
to see everybody added to it andI'm very glad to see there's
dialogue now, but everyone contributed to the tragedy that
is now being experienced. OK, OK.
You know what? That's a great point.
And I think that's a point that quite frankly probably applies
(14:14):
to so many global regime changes, global coups, you know,
foreign policy situations. We're we're in such a divided
place right now where it's, you know, right versus left.
Either you're either you have Trump Derangement syndrome or
you have Trump worship syndrome.And like, you know, I'm always
(14:35):
trying to be right in the middlewhere we call spade a spade on
on, on everything. Let me ask you about Zielinski
because you brought him up. So that guy, again, from my
research, he kind of came out ofnowhere.
He, his background was that of acomedian, an actor, a
performance person, you know, somewhat similar to Justin
(14:56):
Trudeau and Emmanuel Macron fromwhat I've what I've learned.
But like, was he just placed into that?
Like, how did he even all of thesudden become, you know, with
the president of Ukraine? Well, I would suspect, of
course, in terms of the funding and what was going on in the
country, that the collective W would have been a part of that.
(15:18):
They know who they won't and they make sure that it happens.
But other than that, like I said, he did become very popular
because people did want peace. They did not want the fighting
and the death that was happeningat that time.
And again, that was eight years of that.
So people did want to change. So I think he did get support
because he ran on the platform. And of course, once he obtained
(15:42):
the power, it's just the opposite.
He's going to listen to his controllers, which is the US and
the UK. And yes, you know, talk about
Coos. And in all of this, when you
think about it, and I, I've readso many of the documents and the
National Security Archive, whichis a great resource for people
and especially what came out since 2017 going back into the
(16:03):
Cold War as you and I were discussing.
And you just see the NATO, the United States, the UK, in fact,
I would say that the United States and the UK is the
greatest threat to peace and it's the greatest threat to the
United States, not because they want to threaten, but because
they do seek peace. And the United States and the UK
(16:25):
see that as a weakness. And going back to how we began
this, you know, when the specialmilitary operation was begun,
they have always accused Russia of the very thing they did.
Who has 800 to 1000 military bases around the world, the
United States, who lied to Russia and continued with
(16:49):
billions of dollars to turn all of the former Warsaw Pact
countries against Russia, the United States.
All of that is aggression. I haven't seen any aggression on
the Russian Federation's part, but only.
And now they have accomplished what they wanted, but now
they're losing. And they didn't bargain on that.
But it was inevitable. Frankly, I would say that when
(17:12):
we were talking about the battlefield, anyone who has
studied it, you knew from the start, of course the Russian
Federation is going to prevail. But they're doing it in a war of
attrition. They're doing it carefully.
They want to minimize life and accomplish their purpose and
demilitarize. But at the same time, I would
have to say they've done it in avery humane way.
(17:35):
It's probably the most humane action, unlike what we see in
NATO, what they did to Yugoslavia and Libya and Iraq
and Afghanistan. It's a very different approach.
It's the collective W that is causing all of this worldwide.
OK, OK, Yeah, I mean, I I hear you.
And obviously these are difficult things for, you know,
(17:55):
us Americans to hear. And that's like, wait a minute,
what were the bad guys? Or even if you don't want to say
good guys or bad guys, we're theones causing the problem.
Let's talk about NATO for a minute because again, this is
another topic that, you know, the average American just
doesn't even really understand what NATO is.
(18:15):
What is it? Why are we in it?
And fundamentally, you know, give us your thoughts on the
creation of NATO and then the Warsaw Pact.
And then really, why does NATO even still exist when the Warsaw
Pact doesn't exist? Yeah.
Perfect and if only Gorbachev had been strong enough and said
(18:38):
both of them should be disbanded.
First of all, NATO should not exist right now. the IT is not a
defensive pact. It is as I would just say AUS
tool of aggression worldwide, USand UK.
It's it is. That is all that it exists for.
As I was talking about the military bases, it is how they
want to maintain American hegemony.
(19:00):
And for me, I do look at it as you know, I mean, I know it's
difficult for as an American to to consider that your country is
responsible for all of this death, but they are responsible
for bloodshed all over the world.
You take a look at, and we won'tget into it on this show, but
take a look at what's happening in Gaza.
None of this. I always think about Yugoslavia,
(19:22):
now Serbia. It's horrific, the number of
deaths that have happened worldwide because of US
aggression. But the key to it, Ray, is that
they use the media in order to put their spin on it and their
narrative. So we have generations of
Americans who have grown up thinking, as you said, we're the
good guy, but we're not. And I, I'm a Christian, I
(19:45):
believe in looking at what is right and wrong, what is good
and evil. And I view, sadly, I have to say
that my own country is responsible for most of the
evil, the military conflicts in the world.
They are always the instigator one way or another, they or the
UK. And that is, it's really
difficult because you love your country, you love your people,
(20:07):
you want to believe, but it's lying propaganda when you start
to look at history. Yeah, yeah, totally.
And, you know, I always say, I mean, we all love our country
and it's not our country and it's not even the government.
It's certain people inside the government.
I mean, I think it would blow people's mind at potentially how
(20:28):
small. I don't know if it's 100 people,
1000 people or whatever. But fundamentally, again, it's
not, you know, it's not me and my neighbor doing covert regime
change across the world. It's the people in charge of
government. And you made a great point
earlier, you know, it really hashinged, ponged back and forth
(20:49):
between Republicans to Democrats.
You look at, you know, Reagan toClinton.
Reagan I thought was good. Let's start with George W George
H Bush, Papa Bush and then Clinton and then George W Bush,
who was awful, and then Obama and then Obama to Trump and even
even Trump's, you know, first term.
(21:10):
You know, I don't think he really accomplished all that
much in his first term. But that ping pong ball of,
quite frankly, aggression and corruption always seemed to
bounce back and forth between Democrats and Republicans.
The question becomes, is Trump the guy that says, hey, OK, I'm
going to break up this Una partyand we're not going to do this
(21:34):
anymore? What are what are your thoughts
on that? Where do you where do you net
out on Trump right now? First of all, I would say I put
a very big distinction between domestically what he's doing and
his international policy. But first term, and now I always
go back to during his first term, his speech at the UN where
(21:56):
he talked about every nation of the world should be focusing,
just like he focused on Make America Great Again, focused on
your own country, that every country should do that.
But what he neglected to do as president then and what he is
neglecting to do now, although it does seem to be getting
better, was to have that respectfor the sovereignty of other
nations. Sadly, during his first term, he
(22:19):
was the first one since Obama and Newland and the coup.
Trump was the first one to supply a considerable number of
lethal weapons to Ukraine. That's why I said earlier it's
not a matter of Democrats and Republicans.
All of them agree upon American hegemony and I reject that.
I believe that there can be corporation and sciences and
(22:43):
education and there can be corporation and there can be
healthy competition. But when you come in as a bully
to accomplish and say I have to be the superpower, I have to be
the unipower of the world, and all of our presidents have
agreed to that right now. I do like the progress that I
see that at least Trump and his team are talking with the
(23:04):
Russians. I see that there's probably
going to be some, let's say, much better for all of us as
Americans in terms of economically, socially, travel,
all of this between Americans and Russia as it used to be.
All of that should be restored. Look, we don't even have Russian
consulates. It's very difficult for people,
(23:26):
you know, who have family and want to travel.
All of that is going to get better.
And there's so much potential ifyou get rid of this American
hegemonic goal. But Trump hasn't done that.
I think that when Trump says he wants peace, he wants to
distance himself and get this Ukraine project over with.
It didn't go as planned for the United States at this time.
(23:47):
I don't believe he has fundamentally rejected the goal
of the strategic defeat of Russia because if he did, Ray,
all that he would have to do right now is to end all of the
weaponry, all of the intelligence, stop the Starling
and stop all the personnel that are there, and also stop the
selling of weapons to those countries who are declaring that
(24:10):
they are going to take it right into Ukraine.
If he really wanted to stop the bloodshed, he can just stop all
of that. He hasn't done that.
He's a negotiator and I've read all of his books.
I read them years ago. I've always admired that about
him. But when it comes to
international relations, I believe that we should have
respect and sovereignty. He's not yet respect for the
(24:31):
sovereignty of other nations. He's not coming from that
perspective. But nevertheless, he knows it's
in his best interest, in America's best interest to be
rid of this Ukraine project. So I see hope it's just it could
be ended quickly of the saving of human lives were his goal.
OK, OK, gotcha, gotcha. I, I like when you call it the
(24:51):
Ukraine project because it does seem like it's a project that
they tried to implement. You know, one thing that I
talked about in a previous episode was I said, you know, if
you if you buy into this military industrial complex
theory and all that, which I really have to give Robert F
Kennedy Junior credit for getting that into the
mainstream, you know, getting that into the forefront, even
(25:14):
though the military industrial complex was was announced by
Dwight D Eisenhower before John F Kennedy took the presidency.
So it's been around a long time,but we've never really thought
about it and thought about what it does.
And then RFK Junior really the past, let's say 2 years has
brought that into the forefront.You know, when I saw and when I
(25:36):
started researching this and when I started understanding it,
the other thing I thought about this Ukraine project, and I'll
call it that is it seemed like it came right after we withdrew
from Afghanistan in 2021, which to me was a 20 year forever war.
That was the 10th pole of the military industrial complex.
(26:00):
And so the question I have is, was part of this Ukraine project
a replacement for Afghanistan? Was Ukraine, you know,
Afghanistan 2 point O the new Afghanistan and the new way to
funnel money into the military industrial complex?
Do you think that played into this as well?
That's a very interesting point,Ray.
(26:22):
I mean, I think that that would be part of it.
But the Ukraine project goes back so far before then that I
think that they were just tryingto provoke Russia.
So had it occurred in 2022 or had it occurred in 2018 or 2016?
(26:42):
And as the president of Russia has said, he regrets that he
didn't do this because it would have saved lives because all of
this time of the collective W was bringing weapons in,
training them, they were preparing.
So the goal at all times. So yeah, I think it was
convenient for them. They liked those distractions,
of course. And all of this, as you rightly
(27:04):
stated, is all about money and even the goal of Russia, which
we don't have to go back this far, but I can tell you in my
studies goes back, you know, notonly the Cold War, but even
during the revolution in the Soviet Union, the goals on paper
of our government has been the defeat of Russia, powerful, the
(27:26):
resources, the natural resources.
Even at the end of World War 2, Churchill, what is some insane
project? Unthinkable.
He wanted to drop an atomic bombon Russia.
I mean, he was like, they're at their weak point now.
Let's do it now. They didn't.
Fortunately, the US did not agree to to that, so I just
think that it may be happenstance and they were
(27:46):
prepared to go. It did make a very good
distraction, which the government likes whenever they
get in an embarrassing situation, that's for sure.
Yeah, Yeah. OK.
All right. That all makes sense.
So, so it the numbers in terms of what the United States has
contributed to the Ukraine project since 2022, I've seen
(28:06):
200 billion as the number and then 150 billion from Europe.
And, and you know, Macron was atthe White House this week with
Trump. And it was so funny.
They were like arguing back and forth about like, well, ours was
alone and yours was was not alone.
And like, The funny thing was neither one had a clear answer.
(28:28):
So in my mind, I'm like, Oh my God, how is it?
How is it that you guys as the leaders don't clearly even know
how much money we've given? But do you think those numbers
are accurate? Is it more than that?
Is it? Less than that I think it is.
I'm from my recent research and watching what has been done, I
think it is significantly more than 200 and I think it is
(28:49):
significantly more. I would put, you know, and we're
just talking about from 2022 onward.
Prior to that, there were billions, hundreds of billions,
frankly, that were put into Ukraine.
So no, it's, it's more than thatsince then, in my opinion, which
is sad. And let's get back to the best
interest of the American people,the best interest of you and I
(29:10):
in all of our audience, is that there be peace, that we not be
in an aggressive conflict with anuclear power.
And I would remind everybody that regardless of what you see
about the US military, the Russian military and the
weaponry that they have developed is far greater than
(29:32):
anything the collective West has.
We don't want it to ever come tothat.
And Russia has been seeking peace for decades with the
United States. And yet we have continued as you
and I have discussed and we suffer.
And you talked about it's the leaders.
But the leaders do come from us,frankly.
And that is why I appreciate being on your show and other
(29:55):
shows, because the American people need to change their idea
that if I have all that I need, I've got a job and I've got
gasoline and and all this, everything's OK, regardless of
what my government does. No, it is essential that you
know the truth about the evil that the US is doing and the
suffering and the misery that itis causing for a few, a certain
(30:17):
few, to make a lot of money. And that grift has been going on
for decades. And Ukraine is a primary
example. And I'm very glad to see it
coming to light. But the American people are kind
of a part of it too, because I don't think that most of them
really care about the truth, butsome do.
And I think it is essential to those like yourself, Ray, as we
(30:39):
learn the truth, to share it to and not just simply repeat the
propaganda, because the hatred of Russia goes back for decades.
And the US has really crafted that with the American people.
And it's time the American people see that that is false.
Plenty of people know that. But you need to care what your
country is doing. It might not be your family
(31:02):
dying, but there are other people's families dying and
suffering. And it's because our country in
our name, with our money, are murdering them, are killing them
in the name of prophet. And it's really the more that we
are in line, then we can start to stop it and tell whoever are
they elected that we oppose thatand we're not going to elect
(31:22):
them. But I believe it's a really, I
will say this, it's more than a political problem.
There's no political solution toa spiritual problem.
And I just think that the consumerism, the greed then
manifest in those who become ourleaders.
They just have more power and they use it for greed.
It's something that the United States, as a people in a
(31:44):
society, need to change in theirheart before the government is
going to change. Oh, I hear you on that.
I hear you on that. All right, I'm going to table
that for a second because I wantto talk about a few different
things, but I'll get back to that.
You know, I think you made some great points in terms of waking
up to our political leaders. You know, there was something
that came out literally I think yesterday or the day before that
(32:05):
showed, you know, Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, Mitch McConnell,
Publican Chuck Schumer, Mccrat, someone like Ted Cruz,
Republican. And it showed that their their
salaries are like maybe $200,000a year and they're all worth
north of 60 to $400 million. That's like, how is that
(32:27):
possible that somebody who is a career politician who's been in
the game for, you know, 30-40 years and yeah, they make 202
fifty. I mean, but but that's not
anything that salary does not warrant in Mitch McConnell,
Republican, Nancy Pelosi, Democrats case that doesn't
(32:48):
warrant a net worth of over $200million.
And so people need to wake up tothat stuff that's happening.
And that's why I said at the beginning of this, you know,
it's pretty insane that the group of people that are
benefiting, when you put it on apercentage basis, that's the 1%
(33:08):
of the country, less than 1%. Those are the people that are
benefiting through the Lockheed Martins, Raytheons, Boeing, the
defense contractors. That is really a cycle.
It is really a crazy vicious cycle.
And I'm hoping we break out of that.
All right, let me ask you about the Nordstrom pipeline.
(33:29):
I've talked about that on the show before and obviously I
think it was 20. Boom, the Nordstrom pipeline
blows up and then all of the sudden on Fox, MSNBC, CNN, quite
frankly, all of them were like Russia blew up the Nordstrom,
their Nordstrom pipeline. What are your thoughts on the
(33:49):
Nordstrom pipeline? Well, I, I look at it always, we
should go to what is probably the most likely look at who
benefits, who was the United staff benefited.
And although I've seen a number of different suppositions on
this, I really feel that SeymourHersh I, I tend to agree with
him. I would say in all likelihood
(34:12):
this is the CIA operation. They may very well at that time
when I took a look at where the,you know, going back to where
the ships were in our Navy doingNATO exercise there would have
had the perfect opportunity to place the explosives and then at
a later time remotely detonate them.
And I would remind everybody also not only who benefits, but
(34:34):
who said that this was going to happen.
We had, I believe, Victoria Nuland saying that, you know, if
there was any action taken by Russia in regards to Ukraine
that the Nord Stream would be nomore.
We had Biden standing right nextto Olaf Schultz.
What a vassal of a country. Sad.
See what's happened to Germany, But he's standing right there
(34:55):
and saying, oh, we're going to take care of it.
And I'm just paraphrasing, but he he said we're going to do
something about that if that happens.
And even Trump, you know, he didn't like it.
We know that during his time, heput very heavy sanctions on
Germany and really mocked them for doing this.
So all of the US presidents. But at the time, yes.
(35:17):
And you take a look at Biden said it was going to be no more.
Newland said it was going to be no more, it was no more.
So let's take them at their word, why don't we?
Because they're the ones who benefit it.
Yeah, totally. I totally agree.
And you could take it all the way back to Condoleezza Rice.
I remember Condoleezza Rice saidthe same thing.
And again, this is what we have to get people to realize.
(35:38):
Condoleezza Rice was part of theBush administration.
So we're talking Republicans there.
And then Victoria, Victoria Newland is somebody that I
really need to deep dive on her because she to me is like a
Henry Kissinger type where she'sbeen under the radar involved
with everybody. She jumps from Republican
(36:01):
administration to Democrat administration to Republican
administration to Democrat administration.
You know, a couple guys that I really like.
Glenn Greenwald talks about her.You know, Professor Jeffrey
Sachs, who I love that guy. I think that guy's super legit.
He talks about her and he says, hey, these are the real, you
know, evil geniuses behind the scenes, people like Victoria
(36:24):
Newland And then, you know, old school Henry Kissinger, who I
think was a total, you know, he was the puppet master pulling
the strings on things. So anyway, OK, all right, good,
good, good on that. Let's see.
Let me ask you who, who else do you like?
Like, do you like Professor Jeffrey Sachs?
Do you like John Mearsheimer? I certainly do.
(36:45):
Glenn Greenwald actually went toa conference where he was at one
time. It was nice to meet him, you
know, many years ago. These are truth tellers.
And it's very good to see that there are Americans who have the
courage to speak the truth. And of course, their voices up
until now have really been, you know, the average American has
(37:08):
not been listening. But now people are seeking them
out. And that is good.
I like all that you said. There's not really that many
more who are. There are a few very good ones
in other countries. We would really recommend to
your audience, if they don't follow on the Telegram, you can
actually have a lot of independent journalists and
(37:30):
talking about the common frame where you can literally almost
very shortly after be there on the battlefield, seeing what has
happened, interviews, some of them tragic, very, very sad.
But you definitely want to utilize Telegram to get the
truth. And beyond those speakers that
we just now mentioned, there's alot in Ukraine itself and in
(37:54):
Russia, but in Ukraine itself that you can follow and learn a
lot from. OK, interesting, Interesting.
I'll have to get those from you and I'll start to follow them
and then I'll share them with everybody.
You know, let me ask you this question, and I don't know if
you know the answer to this. I have a few Russian friends,
and I always talk to them and I say, hey, do you like Putin?
Do you guys like Putin? Like, does you, do your parents
(38:15):
like Putin? Does your uncle, your aunt who
still lives in Russia, do they like Putin?
It is across the board. They're like, we love Putin.
We think he's amazing. And so I was just curious.
Yeah. Like, like, is his approval
rating in Russia? I've heard it's like 86%,
something like that. Is that all true?
(38:36):
Yes, I I would say it is authentic man.
I to know, you know, have met persons and, you know,
electronically Internet, you know, in Russia and Americans
here who are, you know, came from Russia years ago and
they're in touch with their families.
And yes, he is loved. He is appreciated.
And I would say from everything that I know about him and I've
(38:57):
done use your term, a very deep dive into the man I wanted to
see, is he authentic? Is he genuine?
And I am convinced that he is. And that is why the people
respond to him. He loves his country, he loves
the Russian people and he saved Russia.
Frankly, when you speak with people who suffered right after
the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was horrible in terms
(39:22):
of their provisions, the difficulties, the struggle.
And he came in and he literally saved the country then, just
like he is saving it now. And they look at him in that way
because he, you know, he was a lawyer.
He was, he's also a very strong economist.
And he knew exactly what to do. And he rid the country of a lot
(39:44):
of the oligarchs. Those are generally going to be
the people you see on those silly documentaries to tell you
how bad Putin is. They're the ones who were.
Kicking. They were the ones kicked out of
the country, at least a number of them.
But yes, he is loved and I feel that his laugh for the Russian
people has been evinced in numerous ways.
(40:04):
And I think it's it's real and definitely the people do
appreciate him. OK, interesting.
By the way, he has to know how to speak English fluently,
right? Like, there's no way that dude
does not speak. He never speaks English in any
of his interviews. But I always laugh.
I'm like, dude, come on, we so you know how to speak English.
(40:25):
He has spoken English on a few occasions, yeah.
He has. OK, OK.
Very rare. When he was putting in the pits
for Russia to host the Olympics,they went to Olympics in Sochi,
which they did, which was beautiful.
He actually did to the Olympic Committee and you can see the
video. Go look it up YouTube, you'll
(40:46):
OK. OK.
In English also he sings in English charity fundraiser in
which he sang on Blueberry Hill.So, yeah, in terms of when he's
meeting with people, I think that often world leaders and he
speaks fluent German and and hasgiven speeches in German and
when he's meeting with Germany in the past, which was another
(41:08):
thing that's sad. I Speaking of Germany, the Minsk
agreements and I I just I just thought of this the lies that
were towed straight to Putin's face by the Germans.
A Minsk 1 Minsk to Merkel herself has admitted that we
were lying to Putin that they were going to have it back for
these and make these autonomous regions and stop the killing of
(41:30):
the civilians. That was what he saw.
And we it has now come out that they at the time with Zelensky
were lying to Putin in order to arm Ukraine for what is
happening right now. And it just, you know, occurred
to me the lies that have been going on to him as a leader.
And he's he doesn't want war. He doesn't want death.
(41:52):
And he's tried to prevent it. But hopefully Trump will let it,
let it stop now, let it de escalate.
And I'm really glad to see the communication that's happening.
Yeah, I hope so. You know, I've never really
talked about the Mints Accords. Can you give us just a quick 30
seconds on what those were? Well, Mints, one day we're
getting together again for the regions that I told you about in
(42:16):
the Don Bass cursor on Lugansk, Donetsk, those regions were
being shelled continually. This is in Ukraine.
Ukrainian government killing Ukrainian civilians.
Why does they speak Russian? Because they recognize their
church and that persecution was going on.
So they wanted help and they hadappealed to Russia and Russian
(42:39):
intervention. And Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 was an
agreement, very good agreement, that Ukraine government would
stop the assaults, the attacks upon these civilians.
It would just respect their autonomy and they would remain
part of Ukraine. And they never did.
They continued murdering civilians for years.
That's so Minsk 1 and Minsk two were meant to stop what is going
(43:01):
on right now from escalating to this type of military
confrontation. OK, All right, all right, all
right. Listen, this has been amazing.
I want to give you the last wordand basically tell us what you
think's going to happen in the next, I don't know, 30 days, 60
days, 90 days. Like what's going to happen next
is this is is Trump going to putan end to this?
(43:24):
What do you think's going to happen?
Well, I would hope that he would, but as I already stated,
he could do that instantly, so to speak, and by stopping all of
the weapons and intelligence to anyone who is supplying them.
Instead, he's trying to negotiate something because I
think he evaluates everything not from peace, not from human
life, but by the dollar. He wants to be a win.
(43:45):
He doesn't want to have some embarrassment on the United
States. So he's trying to save face.
And I think Russia's trying to help and not talk about what he
had done to escalate it. I would say that it looks
promising, except I don't see any kind of a plan.
All of those that work with him in the past, not right now, but
they're all war mongers and theyall believe in American
(44:06):
hegemony. But I think because Putin does
want to put an end to this and Trump does for his own reasons
that, you know, for the first time there is hope.
I surely would like to see that at the very least, regardless of
Ukraine and Russia may have to continue.
And until and if because they'renot going to agree to all the
terms you see floated out there,they're not going to have quote,
(44:28):
peacekeepers. We know what NATO peacekeepers
are worldwide and what they do. They're not going to give up the
lands that have been liberated. The people that have been
liberated rate it. So all of that.
And it's a matter of Trump. He's speaking some of the truth.
Finally, his people are speakingsome of the truth about the
situation. So that is promising.
But if they have to finish it militarily, they will.
(44:50):
And it will be just, whichever way it is, it's going to be just
and the killing will stop. But it will be, I feel, on
Russia's terms. It has to be because their
stance is righteous. And I would just share with your
audience in our last few momentshere that they do some research
on President Putin because he isvery, he's a genius.
(45:13):
Look up the Valdai Club. The man can go 4 hours straight.
His historical knowledge, talking about why people love
him. You go to the Valdai Club, it's
like 4 hours. And another thing, he takes
reporters questions for like 4 hours straight every year.
Yeah. And not just reporters, but the
people of Russia and gets personally involved in solving
(45:34):
the problems. That is the real definition of a
leader and frankly, Russia's AI believe to be the hope of the
world in terms of bricks, in terms of the economy, in terms
of corporation among nations. And the United States would do
well to to become a part of thatinstead of against it.
(45:54):
And also in our final moments together, I would like to share
my website with your listeners and it is American Orthodox
christian.com. I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I
decided, in fact, as I told you,to begin sharing my knowledge as
a historian again on these matters.
But that's my personal website where I combine the geopolitical
(46:17):
with the spiritual. I invite people there.
You can also contact me through there.
But just remember that Russia isnot the aggressor in this, and
the United States needs to recognize that.
And I am encouraged to see the truth that Trump and his people
are recognizing, although I believe he always knew it, but
at least he's saying it publiclynow.
(46:39):
OK. All right.
That sounds amazing. By the way, I would love to have
you back on to dive into the religious aspect of this.
We didn't get a chance to talk about that today because
honestly, I really do believe inthe separation of church and
state a little as well. So I didn't want to cloud
today's discussion with talking about religion, but I really do
(46:59):
want to have that conversation. And I want you to come back and
share with us the Christian Orthodox perspective to things
and how that plays into it, because I think that is a part
of what's going on in Ukraine the way Russia is.
We don't really understand that.So we'll come back to that.
Well, listen, this has been really enjoyable, really
(47:21):
appreciate you, you know, dropping the knowledge bombs on
us and I will link everything inthe show notes.
And like I said, I would love tohave you back on to then focus
on the religious aspect of things and have you have you
share that with us. It has been a pleasure.
Thank you, Ray. All right, sounds good.
Christine, stay on the line a minute.
All right, everybody, hope you enjoyed that and hope that
(47:43):
contributes to your knowledge base on one of the topics that
again, it's in the mainstream. So let's see what happens.
Let's see if the war ends. I think it will.
And then that way we've only got1 war left to talk about.
All right, everybody talk to yousoon.
This episode was brought to you by the new book Deep Shallow
(48:04):
Dive into You, available now on Amazon and Barnes and Noble in
hardcover and paperback. Don't forget to sign up for our
new mailing list on our website at deepshallowdive.com.
The following podcast is a deep,shallow dive production and
you're gonna love it. OK, let's go.
So anyway, I prepped to this or I prepped the audience yesterday
on you. And the thing I told him was
(00:20):
that in addition to your knowledge base on this topic of
Russia and Ukraine, what I like the most is that you are a white
American lady. And I and I told everybody, I
mean that in a unbelievably respectful way.
But it also is important because, you know, as you and I
have talked a lot of times when it comes to whether it's
(00:43):
Ukraine, Russia, you know, Gaza,Israel, Palestine, Israel,
whatever the case may be, when, when an audience thinks a person
has skin in the game. And in this case, let's say you
had, you know, Russian or Ukrainian heritage or something
like that, then then it tends tobias.
But since you don't, I'm excited.
(01:04):
All right, everybody, I talked to you guys about this
yesterday, but Christine Lynn ishere and we are going to have an
awesome, awesome discussion about the Russia Ukraine
situation. So let me let me set the stage a
little and read everybody your, your, your impressive bio and
then we'll kind of go from there.
But Christine is a historian, geopolitical analyst, and expert
(01:27):
on Russia. Her articles have been published
in magazines and newspapers for over 30 years, and she's
authored 4 books. She's appeared as a guest on
numerous talk shows, radio, TV and podcasts, and we are glad to
have her today on the deep shallow dive.
For decades, she's been a vocal opponent of what she considers
American and NATO aggression andsays that as a historian, she
(01:52):
understood and believed from thestart that Russia's 2022 special
military operation was the righteous action it had to take,
and not, as President Biden and every other media outlet said,
Putin's brutal invasion. All right, Christine, welcome.
(02:13):
Hi, it's a pleasure to be with you, Ray.
Very happy to be here. Let's shed some light on all
that lying propaganda that the Americans have been subjected to
from their government and media.And it's gone on against Russia,
the cirrusophobia for decades. And so I'm very happy to be here
and join you and your audience. Well, well, I appreciate it.
All right, So let's do this because what we really try to do
(02:36):
here or what I really try to do is, you know, break things down
and we're going to go deep, but we're going to stay shallow and
we'll dive in. Where do you want to start?
Should we start at the end of the Cold War in terms of like
199091 or do you want to start alittle bit later?
Where do you think a good is to start to explain what's going
(03:00):
on? Well, I think I would like to
share with your audience first what is most recent in regards
to the SM as to why the Russian Federation did this.
And I think we can easily work back because behind that it does
go back for decades, the Cold War and in prior to the Cold War
(03:21):
actually, in terms of this falsified narrative that Russia
or the Soviet Union at the time was a threat to the United
States. But I'd like to talk about the
SMO since it's on everybody's mind right now with the
negotiations as they are, and let's work our way back.
OK, let's let's do that. And and when you say SMO, you
(03:42):
mean special military operation.So OK, let's do that.
Let's let's start with today. It sounds like Zielinski now has
kind of his back up against the wall against the wall.
You know, him and Biden seem to be buddy buddy and it doesn't
look like him and Trump are that.
So tell us, tell us what you think I guess is going to happen
(04:05):
next. Well, in, in terms of what's
going to happen next, I'm going to 1st emphasize since the media
and our government, the US government has repeatedly caught
it a brutal invasion. And it makes me laugh.
Sadly. It's a tragedy to have all of
this loss of life. But yeah, I think in terms of
right now, in terms of Trump, the Trump administration, it's
(04:27):
most certainly better. How crazy was it for the Biden
administration to have no contact with a superpower such
as the Russian Federation? But in terms of what happened in
Ukraine, this has been escalating a necessitating Putin
to do something about it for decades.
And I would like to tell your audience what the necessity of
(04:49):
that. And I call it a righteous action
because number one, there were thousands of persons in the
Donbass, which is part of Ukraine that were being
persecuted, were being murdered,being raped, the atrocities that
were going on for eight years asthey asked the Russian
Federation for help. The Ukrainian government ever
(05:11):
since the coup, which you and I will get into later in the USA
backed coup in 2014 of the people there are Russian
speakers, they're essentially Russian.
They are members of the Russian Orthodox Church or the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church, which has been tragically replaced by what I
call the CIA church now by the United States.
But they were persecuted for speaking Russian.
(05:33):
They were not permitted to speakRussian.
Their textbooks for their children actually taught the
children that the Ukraine was never a part of the Soviet
Union, never mentioned that it was a part of it.
But the atrocities and the constant shelling and it's what
is happening now even today as we speak, Ray of the Ukrainians
(05:53):
commit atrocities. They shell the civilian towns,
the supermarkets, the grocery stores, the hospitals.
They're even sitting there drones against civilian cars at
this time. And it was time for the Russian
Federation to come in, recognizethem, accept their ascension,
and defend them because as it was, for eight years, thousands
(06:14):
of people were murdered and there were rape rooms.
It's disgusting. And we're finding even now in
the cursed region, more such atrocities.
That was what was life was like for so many of these Russian
speaking Ukrainians. So that was part of the reason
Putin started the special military operation.
And #2 which I think we'll elaborate upon, is the NATO
(06:36):
expansion. I remember in 2007, President
Putin at the Munich Security Conference that said, what is
this about? Who is this?
Who is this against? Because it continued to expand
despite the lies. And they were lies.
Because we know for a fact from the national security archives
that even going back as far as George HW Bush at that at the
(07:01):
time when Baker was negotiating with Gorbachev, you know, at the
collapse of the Soviet Union, there were multiple times that
they were promised no NATO expansion.
Putin himself has said, and he'sa very patient man, I must say,
when they call this a brutal, the only thing brutal has been
what the Ukrainians have done tothe people in those four
regions. The Russian Federation needed to
(07:22):
step in for those people's sake.And they also needed to step in
to defend the Russian Federationbecause the number one goal of
the United States for decades, state at goal and all of their
documents is the strategic defeat of Russia.
And it came a time where he had to put a stop to it.
OK, OK. All right, that's a lot.
All right, let me ask you a couple things.
(07:42):
One is, do you have any idea, interms of the death toll, how
many Ukrainians have lost their lives since 2022?
I would first of all say don't listen to Trump.
He appears to get his information from the Ukrainians
or his people around him, which is a joke, All of the lies that
they have said. I'm not going to speculate.
(08:03):
I do actually since the beginning followed the, you
know, battleground and the deaths.
But I would estimate that the Ukrainian loss is probably
anywhere from five to seven times the loss of the Russian
Federation soldiers. But I've read various numbers.
I'm not going to attempt to estimate, but I could say
(08:24):
there's. No, but I mean, are we talking
like 100,000 Ukrainians, 500,000?
Far more. I mean, I would probably say
somewhere around 700,800 thousand and perhaps and I feel
that that is a conservative estimate and that's a tragedy.
This did not have to happen. This is all because.
(08:46):
That's an unbelievable tragedy. And those are the numbers I've
heard. I've, I've heard north of
700,000 Ukrainians have died since 2022.
That is an insane number. OK, let's talk about this.
You mentioned the eight years since basically, I'm assuming
(09:06):
2014. Why don't you explain to us,
because I've talked about this several times, but it would be
good to hear your perspective. The Viktor Yanukovych situation
in 2014 where I'll set the stage.
He was democratically elected. And from what I've gathered, he
basically wanted to, you know, kind of be neutral.
(09:30):
He wanted to not necessarily be fully aligned with the Russians,
not wouldn't necessarily be fully aligned with NATO turn the
Americans. And from my research, that
seemed like the US got to a point where they're like, yeah,
you know what? No.
And so they backed, I believe it's called the Maidan
(09:50):
something. But they overthrew him.
That's how I understand it. Am I missing anything?
No, that's idiot even began before them in terms of you,
Nickovich and the elections prior to that and the Orange
Revolution. But yes, we're going to start
right there. What is the most recent history?
He was the duly elected president of Ukraine and the
(10:13):
United States was very unhappy with that.
NATO was very unhappy with that because it was neutrality.
There are those who claim, oh, he was pro Russian.
I don't see it that way. And I really took a look at his
policies and when it served him to do transactions with the
Russian Federation, he did so. When it was with the EU, he did
so. But they cannot accept the
(10:35):
sovereign decisions of such a country.
They only won't vassal. And then what you were Speaking
of is the Madan coup. And that is when it came to a
head in 2014. And it was a tragic event.
And the key for people to understand this was AUS backed
coup, the subsequent leader and then thereafter the election and
(10:58):
Zelinsky was planned. And we have actually the phone
calls, the phone call on the notorious phone call, Victoria
Newland prior to 2014 discussingwho the United States wanted to
come in and be the next president.
Now, again, this is before the coup.
And of course, your audience should understand that billions
(11:20):
of dollars had been put into Ukraine and also training of the
people who were going to be there on that particular day.
Bloody, bloody madon coup. There were snipers that were
placed and the Western narrativewas that these snipers were, you
know, killing, killing the police and killing the.
But what it turned out to be is these were Western training
(11:42):
snipers. I think some of them were
trained in Poland, and they shotboth the police and the
demonstrators. This was not a natural organic
revolution by any means. This was a planned coup by the
United States busing in those who would do the protest.
And they blamed all the deaths that day.
And it was they set fire to the building.
(12:06):
People actually died in the fireas well as the snipers, but the
snipers were there to shoot bothsides and blame it all upon
Yanukovich's government. And of course, to me, it's just
a clear example to me, in my opinion, the CIA deposed him.
Much money went into this. Billions of dollars had already
(12:26):
gone into Ukraine preparing for this because it was always going
to be the proxy to be used against Russia.
But the civilians died. It was horrible.
And they blamed it and said as if this was the people.
And of course, that's the way the United States operates all
over the world. They have orchestrated such
coups. And for me, everything they're
(12:46):
after is illegitimate the the president that they they put in
the subsequent election because everything then was taken over
by the United States and and theUK.
OK, OK. And so that's the Maidan coup
that took place in 2014. It got rid of Viktor Yanukovych.
(13:07):
And then was was that guy Petro Poroshenko?
Was that the guy that then took power?
It was an interim on prior to that the 1 Newland had spoken
about and then they moved to himand then to Zielinski, who ran,
by the way. Zielinski ran on a peace
platform. Everyone knows the comedian,
(13:29):
quote, comedian if you want to call it that, his antics on
stage and the type of performances.
But that thing, you know, that was his career.
But he ran on a peace platform that he was going to make peace
with the parts of Ukraine where there was the fighting and all
of that going on. And, you know, to me, the sad
thing about it is we can focus upon Biden who made this
(13:51):
horrible, but all of our US presidents have been complicit
in this. In fact, this is just very sad
to see everybody added to it andI'm very glad to see there's
dialogue now, but everyone contributed to the tragedy that
is now being experienced. OK, OK.
You know what? That's a great point.
And I think that's a point that quite frankly probably applies
(14:14):
to so many global regime changes, global coups, you know,
foreign policy situations. We're we're in such a divided
place right now where it's, you know, right versus left.
Either you're either you have Trump Derangement syndrome or
you have Trump worship syndrome.And like, you know, I'm always
(14:35):
trying to be right in the middlewhere we call spade a spade on
on, on everything. Let me ask you about Zielinski
because you brought him up. So that guy, again, from my
research, he kind of came out ofnowhere.
He, his background was that of acomedian, an actor, a
performance person, you know, somewhat similar to Justin
(14:56):
Trudeau and Emmanuel Macron fromwhat I've what I've learned.
But like, was he just placed into that?
Like, how did he even all of thesudden become, you know, with
the president of Ukraine? Well, I would suspect, of
course, in terms of the funding and what was going on in the
country, that the collective W would have been a part of that.
(15:18):
They know who they won't and they make sure that it happens.
But other than that, like I said, he did become very popular
because people did want peace. They did not want the fighting
and the death that was happeningat that time.
And again, that was eight years of that.
So people did want to change. So I think he did get support
because he ran on the platform. And of course, once he obtained
(15:42):
the power, it's just the opposite.
He's going to listen to his controllers, which is the US and
the UK. And yes, you know, talk about
Coos. And in all of this, when you
think about it, and I, I've readso many of the documents and the
National Security Archive, whichis a great resource for people
and especially what came out since 2017 going back into the
(16:03):
Cold War as you and I were discussing.
And you just see the NATO, the United States, the UK, in fact,
I would say that the United States and the UK is the
greatest threat to peace and it's the greatest threat to the
United States, not because they want to threaten, but because
they do seek peace. And the United States and the UK
(16:25):
see that as a weakness. And going back to how we began
this, you know, when the specialmilitary operation was begun,
they have always accused Russia of the very thing they did.
Who has 800 to 1000 military bases around the world, the
United States, who lied to Russia and continued with
(16:49):
billions of dollars to turn all of the former Warsaw Pact
countries against Russia, the United States.
All of that is aggression. I haven't seen any aggression on
the Russian Federation's part, but only.
And now they have accomplished what they wanted, but now
they're losing. And they didn't bargain on that.
But it was inevitable. Frankly, I would say that when
(17:12):
we were talking about the battlefield, anyone who has
studied it, you knew from the start, of course the Russian
Federation is going to prevail. But they're doing it in a war of
attrition. They're doing it carefully.
They want to minimize life and accomplish their purpose and
demilitarize. But at the same time, I would
have to say they've done it in avery humane way.
(17:35):
It's probably the most humane action, unlike what we see in
NATO, what they did to Yugoslavia and Libya and Iraq
and Afghanistan. It's a very different approach.
It's the collective W that is causing all of this worldwide.
OK, OK, Yeah, I mean, I I hear you.
And obviously these are difficult things for, you know,
(17:55):
us Americans to hear. And that's like, wait a minute,
what were the bad guys? Or even if you don't want to say
good guys or bad guys, we're theones causing the problem.
Let's talk about NATO for a minute because again, this is
another topic that, you know, the average American just
doesn't even really understand what NATO is.
(18:15):
What is it? Why are we in it?
And fundamentally, you know, give us your thoughts on the
creation of NATO and then the Warsaw Pact.
And then really, why does NATO even still exist when the Warsaw
Pact doesn't exist? Yeah.
Perfect and if only Gorbachev had been strong enough and said
(18:38):
both of them should be disbanded.
First of all, NATO should not exist right now. the IT is not a
defensive pact. It is as I would just say AUS
tool of aggression worldwide, USand UK.
It's it is. That is all that it exists for.
As I was talking about the military bases, it is how they
want to maintain American hegemony.
(19:00):
And for me, I do look at it as you know, I mean, I know it's
difficult for as an American to to consider that your country is
responsible for all of this death, but they are responsible
for bloodshed all over the world.
You take a look at, and we won'tget into it on this show, but
take a look at what's happening in Gaza.
None of this. I always think about Yugoslavia,
(19:22):
now Serbia. It's horrific, the number of
deaths that have happened worldwide because of US
aggression. But the key to it, Ray, is that
they use the media in order to put their spin on it and their
narrative. So we have generations of
Americans who have grown up thinking, as you said, we're the
good guy, but we're not. And I, I'm a Christian, I
(19:45):
believe in looking at what is right and wrong, what is good
and evil. And I view, sadly, I have to say
that my own country is responsible for most of the
evil, the military conflicts in the world.
They are always the instigator one way or another, they or the
UK. And that is, it's really
difficult because you love your country, you love your people,
(20:07):
you want to believe, but it's lying propaganda when you start
to look at history. Yeah, yeah, totally.
And, you know, I always say, I mean, we all love our country
and it's not our country and it's not even the government.
It's certain people inside the government.
I mean, I think it would blow people's mind at potentially how
(20:28):
small. I don't know if it's 100 people,
1000 people or whatever. But fundamentally, again, it's
not, you know, it's not me and my neighbor doing covert regime
change across the world. It's the people in charge of
government. And you made a great point
earlier, you know, it really hashinged, ponged back and forth
(20:49):
between Republicans to Democrats.
You look at, you know, Reagan toClinton.
Reagan I thought was good. Let's start with George W George
H Bush, Papa Bush and then Clinton and then George W Bush,
who was awful, and then Obama and then Obama to Trump and even
even Trump's, you know, first term.
(21:10):
You know, I don't think he really accomplished all that
much in his first term. But that ping pong ball of,
quite frankly, aggression and corruption always seemed to
bounce back and forth between Democrats and Republicans.
The question becomes, is Trump the guy that says, hey, OK, I'm
going to break up this Una partyand we're not going to do this
(21:34):
anymore? What are what are your thoughts
on that? Where do you where do you net
out on Trump right now? First of all, I would say I put
a very big distinction between domestically what he's doing and
his international policy. But first term, and now I always
go back to during his first term, his speech at the UN where
(21:56):
he talked about every nation of the world should be focusing,
just like he focused on Make America Great Again, focused on
your own country, that every country should do that.
But what he neglected to do as president then and what he is
neglecting to do now, although it does seem to be getting
better, was to have that respectfor the sovereignty of other
nations. Sadly, during his first term, he
(22:19):
was the first one since Obama and Newland and the coup.
Trump was the first one to supply a considerable number of
lethal weapons to Ukraine. That's why I said earlier it's
not a matter of Democrats and Republicans.
All of them agree upon American hegemony and I reject that.
I believe that there can be corporation and sciences and
(22:43):
education and there can be corporation and there can be
healthy competition. But when you come in as a bully
to accomplish and say I have to be the superpower, I have to be
the unipower of the world, and all of our presidents have
agreed to that right now. I do like the progress that I
see that at least Trump and his team are talking with the
(23:04):
Russians. I see that there's probably
going to be some, let's say, much better for all of us as
Americans in terms of economically, socially, travel,
all of this between Americans and Russia as it used to be.
All of that should be restored. Look, we don't even have Russian
consulates. It's very difficult for people,
(23:26):
you know, who have family and want to travel.
All of that is going to get better.
And there's so much potential ifyou get rid of this American
hegemonic goal. But Trump hasn't done that.
I think that when Trump says he wants peace, he wants to
distance himself and get this Ukraine project over with.
It didn't go as planned for the United States at this time.
(23:47):
I don't believe he has fundamentally rejected the goal
of the strategic defeat of Russia because if he did, Ray,
all that he would have to do right now is to end all of the
weaponry, all of the intelligence, stop the Starling
and stop all the personnel that are there, and also stop the
selling of weapons to those countries who are declaring that
(24:10):
they are going to take it right into Ukraine.
If he really wanted to stop the bloodshed, he can just stop all
of that. He hasn't done that.
He's a negotiator and I've read all of his books.
I read them years ago. I've always admired that about
him. But when it comes to
international relations, I believe that we should have
respect and sovereignty. He's not yet respect for the
(24:31):
sovereignty of other nations. He's not coming from that
perspective. But nevertheless, he knows it's
in his best interest, in America's best interest to be
rid of this Ukraine project. So I see hope it's just it could
be ended quickly of the saving of human lives were his goal.
OK, OK, gotcha, gotcha. I, I like when you call it the
(24:51):
Ukraine project because it does seem like it's a project that
they tried to implement. You know, one thing that I
talked about in a previous episode was I said, you know, if
you if you buy into this military industrial complex
theory and all that, which I really have to give Robert F
Kennedy Junior credit for getting that into the
mainstream, you know, getting that into the forefront, even
(25:14):
though the military industrial complex was was announced by
Dwight D Eisenhower before John F Kennedy took the presidency.
So it's been around a long time,but we've never really thought
about it and thought about what it does.
And then RFK Junior really the past, let's say 2 years has
brought that into the forefront.You know, when I saw and when I
(25:36):
started researching this and when I started understanding it,
the other thing I thought about this Ukraine project, and I'll
call it that is it seemed like it came right after we withdrew
from Afghanistan in 2021, which to me was a 20 year forever war.
That was the 10th pole of the military industrial complex.
(26:00):
And so the question I have is, was part of this Ukraine project
a replacement for Afghanistan? Was Ukraine, you know,
Afghanistan 2 point O the new Afghanistan and the new way to
funnel money into the military industrial complex?
Do you think that played into this as well?
That's a very interesting point,Ray.
(26:22):
I mean, I think that that would be part of it.
But the Ukraine project goes back so far before then that I
think that they were just tryingto provoke Russia.
So had it occurred in 2022 or had it occurred in 2018 or 2016?
(26:42):
And as the president of Russia has said, he regrets that he
didn't do this because it would have saved lives because all of
this time of the collective W was bringing weapons in,
training them, they were preparing.
So the goal at all times. So yeah, I think it was
convenient for them. They liked those distractions,
of course. And all of this, as you rightly
(27:04):
stated, is all about money and even the goal of Russia, which
we don't have to go back this far, but I can tell you in my
studies goes back, you know, notonly the Cold War, but even
during the revolution in the Soviet Union, the goals on paper
of our government has been the defeat of Russia, powerful, the
(27:26):
resources, the natural resources.
Even at the end of World War 2, Churchill, what is some insane
project? Unthinkable.
He wanted to drop an atomic bombon Russia.
I mean, he was like, they're at their weak point now.
Let's do it now. They didn't.
Fortunately, the US did not agree to to that, so I just
think that it may be happenstance and they were
(27:46):
prepared to go. It did make a very good
distraction, which the government likes whenever they
get in an embarrassing situation, that's for sure.
Yeah, Yeah. OK.
All right. That all makes sense.
So, so it the numbers in terms of what the United States has
contributed to the Ukraine project since 2022, I've seen
(28:06):
200 billion as the number and then 150 billion from Europe.
And, and you know, Macron was atthe White House this week with
Trump. And it was so funny.
They were like arguing back and forth about like, well, ours was
alone and yours was was not alone.
And like, The funny thing was neither one had a clear answer.
(28:28):
So in my mind, I'm like, Oh my God, how is it?
How is it that you guys as the leaders don't clearly even know
how much money we've given? But do you think those numbers
are accurate? Is it more than that?
Is it? Less than that I think it is.
I'm from my recent research and watching what has been done, I
think it is significantly more than 200 and I think it is
(28:49):
significantly more. I would put, you know, and we're
just talking about from 2022 onward.
Prior to that, there were billions, hundreds of billions,
frankly, that were put into Ukraine.
So no, it's, it's more than thatsince then, in my opinion, which
is sad. And let's get back to the best
interest of the American people,the best interest of you and I
(29:10):
in all of our audience, is that there be peace, that we not be
in an aggressive conflict with anuclear power.
And I would remind everybody that regardless of what you see
about the US military, the Russian military and the
weaponry that they have developed is far greater than
(29:32):
anything the collective West has.
We don't want it to ever come tothat.
And Russia has been seeking peace for decades with the
United States. And yet we have continued as you
and I have discussed and we suffer.
And you talked about it's the leaders.
But the leaders do come from us,frankly.
And that is why I appreciate being on your show and other
(29:55):
shows, because the American people need to change their idea
that if I have all that I need, I've got a job and I've got
gasoline and and all this, everything's OK, regardless of
what my government does. No, it is essential that you
know the truth about the evil that the US is doing and the
suffering and the misery that itis causing for a few, a certain
(30:17):
few, to make a lot of money. And that grift has been going on
for decades. And Ukraine is a primary
example. And I'm very glad to see it
coming to light. But the American people are kind
of a part of it too, because I don't think that most of them
really care about the truth, butsome do.
And I think it is essential to those like yourself, Ray, as we
(30:39):
learn the truth, to share it to and not just simply repeat the
propaganda, because the hatred of Russia goes back for decades.
And the US has really crafted that with the American people.
And it's time the American people see that that is false.
Plenty of people know that. But you need to care what your
country is doing. It might not be your family
(31:02):
dying, but there are other people's families dying and
suffering. And it's because our country in
our name, with our money, are murdering them, are killing them
in the name of prophet. And it's really the more that we
are in line, then we can start to stop it and tell whoever are
they elected that we oppose thatand we're not going to elect
(31:22):
them. But I believe it's a really, I
will say this, it's more than a political problem.
There's no political solution toa spiritual problem.
And I just think that the consumerism, the greed then
manifest in those who become ourleaders.
They just have more power and they use it for greed.
It's something that the United States, as a people in a
(31:44):
society, need to change in theirheart before the government is
going to change. Oh, I hear you on that.
I hear you on that. All right, I'm going to table
that for a second because I wantto talk about a few different
things, but I'll get back to that.
You know, I think you made some great points in terms of waking
up to our political leaders. You know, there was something
that came out literally I think yesterday or the day before that
(32:05):
showed, you know, Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, Mitch McConnell,
Publican Chuck Schumer, Mccrat, someone like Ted Cruz,
Republican. And it showed that their their
salaries are like maybe $200,000a year and they're all worth
north of 60 to $400 million. That's like, how is that
(32:27):
possible that somebody who is a career politician who's been in
the game for, you know, 30-40 years and yeah, they make 202
fifty. I mean, but but that's not
anything that salary does not warrant in Mitch McConnell,
Republican, Nancy Pelosi, Democrats case that doesn't
(32:48):
warrant a net worth of over $200million.
And so people need to wake up tothat stuff that's happening.
And that's why I said at the beginning of this, you know,
it's pretty insane that the group of people that are
benefiting, when you put it on apercentage basis, that's the 1%
(33:08):
of the country, less than 1%. Those are the people that are
benefiting through the Lockheed Martins, Raytheons, Boeing, the
defense contractors. That is really a cycle.
It is really a crazy vicious cycle.
And I'm hoping we break out of that.
All right, let me ask you about the Nordstrom pipeline.
(33:29):
I've talked about that on the show before and obviously I
think it was 20. Boom, the Nordstrom pipeline
blows up and then all of the sudden on Fox, MSNBC, CNN, quite
frankly, all of them were like Russia blew up the Nordstrom,
their Nordstrom pipeline. What are your thoughts on the
(33:49):
Nordstrom pipeline? Well, I, I look at it always, we
should go to what is probably the most likely look at who
benefits, who was the United staff benefited.
And although I've seen a number of different suppositions on
this, I really feel that SeymourHersh I, I tend to agree with
him. I would say in all likelihood
(34:12):
this is the CIA operation. They may very well at that time
when I took a look at where the,you know, going back to where
the ships were in our Navy doingNATO exercise there would have
had the perfect opportunity to place the explosives and then at
a later time remotely detonate them.
And I would remind everybody also not only who benefits, but
(34:34):
who said that this was going to happen.
We had, I believe, Victoria Nuland saying that, you know, if
there was any action taken by Russia in regards to Ukraine
that the Nord Stream would be nomore.
We had Biden standing right nextto Olaf Schultz.
What a vassal of a country. Sad.
See what's happened to Germany, But he's standing right there
(34:55):
and saying, oh, we're going to take care of it.
And I'm just paraphrasing, but he he said we're going to do
something about that if that happens.
And even Trump, you know, he didn't like it.
We know that during his time, heput very heavy sanctions on
Germany and really mocked them for doing this.
So all of the US presidents. But at the time, yes.
(35:17):
And you take a look at Biden said it was going to be no more.
Newland said it was going to be no more, it was no more.
So let's take them at their word, why don't we?
Because they're the ones who benefit it.
Yeah, totally. I totally agree.
And you could take it all the way back to Condoleezza Rice.
I remember Condoleezza Rice saidthe same thing.
And again, this is what we have to get people to realize.
(35:38):
Condoleezza Rice was part of theBush administration.
So we're talking Republicans there.
And then Victoria, Victoria Newland is somebody that I
really need to deep dive on her because she to me is like a
Henry Kissinger type where she'sbeen under the radar involved
with everybody. She jumps from Republican
(36:01):
administration to Democrat administration to Republican
administration to Democrat administration.
You know, a couple guys that I really like.
Glenn Greenwald talks about her.You know, Professor Jeffrey
Sachs, who I love that guy. I think that guy's super legit.
He talks about her and he says, hey, these are the real, you
know, evil geniuses behind the scenes, people like Victoria
(36:24):
Newland And then, you know, old school Henry Kissinger, who I
think was a total, you know, he was the puppet master pulling
the strings on things. So anyway, OK, all right, good,
good, good on that. Let's see.
Let me ask you who, who else do you like?
Like, do you like Professor Jeffrey Sachs?
Do you like John Mearsheimer? I certainly do.
(36:45):
Glenn Greenwald actually went toa conference where he was at one
time. It was nice to meet him, you
know, many years ago. These are truth tellers.
And it's very good to see that there are Americans who have the
courage to speak the truth. And of course, their voices up
until now have really been, you know, the average American has
(37:08):
not been listening. But now people are seeking them
out. And that is good.
I like all that you said. There's not really that many
more who are. There are a few very good ones
in other countries. We would really recommend to
your audience, if they don't follow on the Telegram, you can
actually have a lot of independent journalists and
(37:30):
talking about the common frame where you can literally almost
very shortly after be there on the battlefield, seeing what has
happened, interviews, some of them tragic, very, very sad.
But you definitely want to utilize Telegram to get the
truth. And beyond those speakers that
we just now mentioned, there's alot in Ukraine itself and in
(37:54):
Russia, but in Ukraine itself that you can follow and learn a
lot from. OK, interesting, Interesting.
I'll have to get those from you and I'll start to follow them
and then I'll share them with everybody.
You know, let me ask you this question, and I don't know if
you know the answer to this. I have a few Russian friends,
and I always talk to them and I say, hey, do you like Putin?
Do you guys like Putin? Like, does you, do your parents
(38:15):
like Putin? Does your uncle, your aunt who
still lives in Russia, do they like Putin?
It is across the board. They're like, we love Putin.
We think he's amazing. And so I was just curious.
Yeah. Like, like, is his approval
rating in Russia? I've heard it's like 86%,
something like that. Is that all true?
(38:36):
Yes, I I would say it is authentic man.
I to know, you know, have met persons and, you know,
electronically Internet, you know, in Russia and Americans
here who are, you know, came from Russia years ago and
they're in touch with their families.
And yes, he is loved. He is appreciated.
And I would say from everything that I know about him and I've
(38:57):
done use your term, a very deep dive into the man I wanted to
see, is he authentic? Is he genuine?
And I am convinced that he is. And that is why the people
respond to him. He loves his country, he loves
the Russian people and he saved Russia.
Frankly, when you speak with people who suffered right after
the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was horrible in terms
(39:22):
of their provisions, the difficulties, the struggle.
And he came in and he literally saved the country then, just
like he is saving it now. And they look at him in that way
because he, you know, he was a lawyer.
He was, he's also a very strong economist.
And he knew exactly what to do. And he rid the country of a lot
(39:44):
of the oligarchs. Those are generally going to be
the people you see on those silly documentaries to tell you
how bad Putin is. They're the ones who were.
Kicking. They were the ones kicked out of
the country, at least a number of them.
But yes, he is loved and I feel that his laugh for the Russian
people has been evinced in numerous ways.
(40:04):
And I think it's it's real and definitely the people do
appreciate him. OK, interesting.
By the way, he has to know how to speak English fluently,
right? Like, there's no way that dude
does not speak. He never speaks English in any
of his interviews. But I always laugh.
I'm like, dude, come on, we so you know how to speak English.
(40:25):
He has spoken English on a few occasions, yeah.
He has. OK, OK.
Very rare. When he was putting in the pits
for Russia to host the Olympics,they went to Olympics in Sochi,
which they did, which was beautiful.
He actually did to the Olympic Committee and you can see the
video. Go look it up YouTube, you'll
(40:46):
OK. OK.
In English also he sings in English charity fundraiser in
which he sang on Blueberry Hill.So, yeah, in terms of when he's
meeting with people, I think that often world leaders and he
speaks fluent German and and hasgiven speeches in German and
when he's meeting with Germany in the past, which was another
(41:08):
thing that's sad. I Speaking of Germany, the Minsk
agreements and I I just I just thought of this the lies that
were towed straight to Putin's face by the Germans.
A Minsk 1 Minsk to Merkel herself has admitted that we
were lying to Putin that they were going to have it back for
these and make these autonomous regions and stop the killing of
(41:30):
the civilians. That was what he saw.
And we it has now come out that they at the time with Zelensky
were lying to Putin in order to arm Ukraine for what is
happening right now. And it just, you know, occurred
to me the lies that have been going on to him as a leader.
And he's he doesn't want war. He doesn't want death.
(41:52):
And he's tried to prevent it. But hopefully Trump will let it,
let it stop now, let it de escalate.
And I'm really glad to see the communication that's happening.
Yeah, I hope so. You know, I've never really
talked about the Mints Accords. Can you give us just a quick 30
seconds on what those were? Well, Mints, one day we're
getting together again for the regions that I told you about in
(42:16):
the Don Bass cursor on Lugansk, Donetsk, those regions were
being shelled continually. This is in Ukraine.
Ukrainian government killing Ukrainian civilians.
Why does they speak Russian? Because they recognize their
church and that persecution was going on.
So they wanted help and they hadappealed to Russia and Russian
(42:39):
intervention. And Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 was an
agreement, very good agreement, that Ukraine government would
stop the assaults, the attacks upon these civilians.
It would just respect their autonomy and they would remain
part of Ukraine. And they never did.
They continued murdering civilians for years.
That's so Minsk 1 and Minsk two were meant to stop what is going
(43:01):
on right now from escalating to this type of military
confrontation. OK, All right, all right, all
right. Listen, this has been amazing.
I want to give you the last wordand basically tell us what you
think's going to happen in the next, I don't know, 30 days, 60
days, 90 days. Like what's going to happen next
is this is is Trump going to putan end to this?
(43:24):
What do you think's going to happen?
Well, I would hope that he would, but as I already stated,
he could do that instantly, so to speak, and by stopping all of
the weapons and intelligence to anyone who is supplying them.
Instead, he's trying to negotiate something because I
think he evaluates everything not from peace, not from human
life, but by the dollar. He wants to be a win.
(43:45):
He doesn't want to have some embarrassment on the United
States. So he's trying to save face.
And I think Russia's trying to help and not talk about what he
had done to escalate it. I would say that it looks
promising, except I don't see any kind of a plan.
All of those that work with him in the past, not right now, but
they're all war mongers and theyall believe in American
(44:06):
hegemony. But I think because Putin does
want to put an end to this and Trump does for his own reasons
that, you know, for the first time there is hope.
I surely would like to see that at the very least, regardless of
Ukraine and Russia may have to continue.
And until and if because they'renot going to agree to all the
terms you see floated out there,they're not going to have quote,
(44:28):
peacekeepers. We know what NATO peacekeepers
are worldwide and what they do. They're not going to give up the
lands that have been liberated. The people that have been
liberated rate it. So all of that.
And it's a matter of Trump. He's speaking some of the truth.
Finally, his people are speakingsome of the truth about the
situation. So that is promising.
But if they have to finish it militarily, they will.
(44:50):
And it will be just, whichever way it is, it's going to be just
and the killing will stop. But it will be, I feel, on
Russia's terms. It has to be because their
stance is righteous. And I would just share with your
audience in our last few momentshere that they do some research
on President Putin because he isvery, he's a genius.
(45:13):
Look up the Valdai Club. The man can go 4 hours straight.
His historical knowledge, talking about why people love
him. You go to the Valdai Club, it's
like 4 hours. And another thing, he takes
reporters questions for like 4 hours straight every year.
Yeah. And not just reporters, but the
people of Russia and gets personally involved in solving
(45:34):
the problems. That is the real definition of a
leader and frankly, Russia's AI believe to be the hope of the
world in terms of bricks, in terms of the economy, in terms
of corporation among nations. And the United States would do
well to to become a part of thatinstead of against it.
(45:54):
And also in our final moments together, I would like to share
my website with your listeners and it is American Orthodox
christian.com. I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I
decided, in fact, as I told you,to begin sharing my knowledge as
a historian again on these matters.
But that's my personal website where I combine the geopolitical
(46:17):
with the spiritual. I invite people there.
You can also contact me through there.
But just remember that Russia isnot the aggressor in this, and
the United States needs to recognize that.
And I am encouraged to see the truth that Trump and his people
are recognizing, although I believe he always knew it, but
at least he's saying it publiclynow.
(46:39):
OK. All right.
That sounds amazing. By the way, I would love to have
you back on to dive into the religious aspect of this.
We didn't get a chance to talk about that today because
honestly, I really do believe inthe separation of church and
state a little as well. So I didn't want to cloud
today's discussion with talking about religion, but I really do
(46:59):
want to have that conversation. And I want you to come back and
share with us the Christian Orthodox perspective to things
and how that plays into it, because I think that is a part
of what's going on in Ukraine the way Russia is.
We don't really understand that.So we'll come back to that.
Well, listen, this has been really enjoyable, really
(47:21):
appreciate you, you know, dropping the knowledge bombs on
us and I will link everything inthe show notes.
And like I said, I would love tohave you back on to then focus
on the religious aspect of things and have you have you
share that with us. It has been a pleasure.
Thank you, Ray. All right, sounds good.
Christine, stay on the line a minute.
All right, everybody, hope you enjoyed that and hope that
(47:43):
contributes to your knowledge base on one of the topics that
again, it's in the mainstream. So let's see what happens.
Let's see if the war ends. I think it will.
And then that way we've only got1 war left to talk about.
All right, everybody talk to yousoon.
This episode was brought to you by the new book Deep Shallow
(48:04):
Dive into You, available now on Amazon and Barnes and Noble in
hardcover and paperback. Don't forget to sign up for our
new mailing list on our website at deepshallowdive.com.
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