EP#369 | GUEST | Burned to the Ground: Andi Wagner & the 2025 Pacific Palisades Fire - Deep Shallow Dive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The following podcast is a deep,shallow dive production and
you're going to love it. OK, let's go.
All right. I've had a lot of people on this
podcast and I've had a lot of real talk on this podcast.

(00:20):
I really have. I think that's one of the things
I pride myself on. But listen, everybody, today we
are probably going to have one of the real estate conversations
that I've ever had here and probably 1 of, if not the most
meaningful conversation about something that quite frankly
happened at the beginning of theyear.

(00:42):
And it's like everybody besides Spencer Pratt has forgot about
it. And I just gave some people a
clue, But Andy Wagner is somebody I met, gosh, probably
maybe 45 days, maybe 2 months ago, something along those
lines. And we started talking and she

(01:04):
shared that she had just moved to Laguna Beach.
And I said, oh, that's cool, where'd you move from?
And she said Pacific Palisades. And so immediately I was like,
Oh my God, was everything OK with your house?
This is God. It's like it's kind of making me
emotional, let alone you becauseit was such a traumatic thing.

(01:28):
But listen, everybody, Andy's house burned down and she was
one of the folks that lost her house.
And so we had an unbelievable conversation that night.
And and I kind of ended it with saying, hey, you know, I know
this is something that is incredibly difficult.
Gosh, if you ever wanted to kindof talk about it on the podcast,

(01:49):
we talked about deep shallow dive and we talked all about
this stuff. You know, it's an open
invitation. And so we stayed in touch and I
reached out a couple times. We had a couple things scheduled
and you know, one thing came up,something else came up.
And I honestly thought to myself, you know what?
I'm just going to kind of let itbe such a traumatic experience

(02:11):
for her. I don't want to push her into
anything. And last week she contacted me
and said, Hey, I've been attending these classes.
I think it's the Hoffman classes.
Is that right? And I, and I know you're going
to share about that in this as well.
But anyway, Long story short, man, that was the longest intro
ever, but I wanted it to be because it's so meaningful.

(02:32):
We finally, you know, are putting this together and, and I
appreciate this so much. And I'm going to shut up for a
second. So welcome to Deep Shallow Dive.
I appreciate you for wanting to keep.
I don't want to say the events alive, but I feel as though

(02:53):
sometimes it gets forgotten, right?
No, absolutely. And and you know, like you and I
talked the first time we met andthen in subsequent
conversations. Gosh, it's like there's a crisis
de jour every week these days. But man, this was only six
months ago, seven months ago. And, and it captivated the

(03:14):
global stable stage for a good two to three weeks.
And then from there it's like poof, it's gone.
And it should not be gone because people lost everything,
including yourself. All right, so let's start with,
gosh, I think it was maybe January 7th, if I'm remembering

(03:35):
the date right. Where were you when things
started and what was the beginnings of it for you?
So I'm going to back up to January 1st because there's a
correlation between the 1st and the 7th and a lot of people
might not be aware of. But on New Year's Eve, there was
a fire in the Highlands that wasstarted by a couple of young

(03:56):
kids and fireworks. And the firefighters were called
again to the Highlands, which isa part of the Palisades.
It's, it's probably about, I'd say maybe 2 1/2 miles up from
PCH off of Sunset Blvd. And it's a development where
you, you take a, a road called Palisades Dr. for about two
miles up into the Highlands. And this fire was put out on, on

(04:19):
New Year's Eve. And I know, I know this for a
fact because my one of my best friends lives right in the
Highlands and another friend actually lived where the fire
was right literally in the frontof her house and it was put out.
But as we both know, a fire can be quote, put out, but
underneath the embers are still burning.
And unfortunately, when we knew that there were going to be high

(04:42):
winds because the weather reporthad told us this three days
before the fire, that same fire was reignited.
Now it's not official yet, but it'll, it'll, it'll come out
very soon. We, as I mean, I'm going to
speak from we as Palestinians knew that there had been a fire.

(05:03):
We knew that there were going tobe high winds and we also knew
that our reservoir had never been has not been filled.
OK. I didn't know that there wasn't
enough water, and I didn't know,honestly, that even how many
firefighters had been cut. I wasn't aware of that until
afterward. So the back to your initial
question. On the 7th of January, I

(05:24):
happened to go to the new gym that just opened up in the
Palisades. It had been closed since COVID
equinox. And I was in a class and at 10
AM, everyone's phone alarms wentoff because there was a fire and
the alarm went off in the gym aswell.
And we all sort of were, we didn't quite know what was going
on. And everyone started looking on
their phone and people started to leave because they have kids

(05:46):
in school and they saw that there.
I don't, I don't know what it said on the phone.
I didn't get that. The, I didn't even know if it
was an evacuation notice. Yeah, I don't think it was.
I think it was just there's a fire in the Highlands and we
looked out of the window and literally there was a giant
plume of smoke because the Equinox Gym is right there on
PCH and Sunset Blvd. So literally we sort of, if you

(06:07):
looked, it was coming rolling down from the Highlands.
OK, gigantic thing of smoke. OK, let let me for those that
don't live in Southern California and that maybe don't
even remember. So Pacific Palisades, just so
everybody knows, is one of the nicest neighborhoods of Southern
California. And probably what makes it so
unique within Southern California in my opinion is it's

(06:30):
kind of the quintessential almost Midwestern neighborhood
that is in Southern California. Most of California, especially
Southern California, you know, small lots, not a lot of yard.
It's very like homes are on top of each other and all that.
The Palisades and then another neighborhood called Palos
Verdes, which sometimes gets mistaken for it, and we'll talk

(06:52):
about that a little later. You know those two, they really
remind me of like the nicest neighborhoods in Cleveland, OH,
where I grew up, or in any city in the Midwest.
So just understand that this is a very, very suburban, just a
wonderful, wonderful neighborhood and probably a
neighborhood that you just neverthink anything is going to go

(07:16):
wrong. You know, like what you you said
earlier, you had no idea that the reservoirs didn't have water
in it. You had no idea that your
firefighter network had been cutand all that because it's such a
nice neighborhood. You just think everything's
going to be perfect. OK, all right, So go on.
So everybody's like rushing home.

(07:37):
They're they're going to take care of their kids.
Go from there. I decided to get in my car and
leave as well because I wanted to.
I luckily my son is 21 and he was actually backpacking in Peru
so I knew he was safe. But my dog is home and of course
you want to get home and you want to save your animals.
And I went out and I couldn't. I couldn't.

(07:59):
It was a parking lot on Sunset Blvd. to get into the Palisades
was a parking lot at Sunset and PC and I was in that parking lot
line and we weren't moving. And I thought to myself, there's
no way I'm going to get home in time.
And when I looked up, in fact, Itook a photo with my phone and
it looked like my home was right, was on in the fire
because there was smoke already.And this was again 10:15 in the

(08:22):
morning, 10 AM. OK.
Wow. OK.
So by the grace of God, I remembered a back route.
A friend of mine had been a member at the Bel Air Bay Club,
and the Bel Air Bay Club is located on PCH and they also
have another portion of their club above.
And then they have a private road that goes from PCH up to
their club, but that road also goes all the way into the

(08:44):
Palisades and cross the sun. And then you can cross Sunset
Blvd. and get to my house, whichis consider the Marquez Knowles,
which if you know the Palisades,it's near Marquez Elementary and
it's West of Tamesco Canyon. A lot of people in LA come and
hike at Will Rogers State Park and to Mesco Canyon.
Once I got to the neighborhood, it was just mass chaos.

(09:04):
And this is 1015 in the morning.Yeah, yeah.
You know what's interesting? Gosh, I really remember this
pretty vividly, but I don't remember really hearing about it
until later that night. So this is interesting that this
started at 10:15 for you. I remember around 6:00 PM that
night was when all of a sudden Isaw all the postings on social

(09:25):
media media and then it was all over the news.
So I made it to my street and again, waiting because all the
cars were coming and I had a neighbor.
And I said, are you evacuating? And she goes, I've lived here
for 40 years. Like, firefighters have it under
control. We're not leaving.
And I thought, OK, interesting. And then I went to the front of

(09:47):
my house and my neighbors acrossthe street and next to me were
there. And I I said, hey, everybody's
panicking. Are you guys evacuate?
No, Look, then you could see thehelicopters were dropping water.
You could hear the sirens. You want.
I wanted to believe that it was under control and of course,
wasn't going to roll down the hill.
And I was confused. And I literally went inside my

(10:09):
house thinking, OK, well, maybe I don't.
Maybe there really isn't anything to panic about.
And I, I remember coming back outside and again, it was my
neighbor to the left and anotherneighbor in front.
And I looked at them again. I said, are you guys sure you're
not even going to pack up your car?
No. And Andrea, we're fine.
We're, we're good. We're, we're just going to wait.
You know, it hasn't. We've been through this before.

(10:33):
We've been through this before and it we're fine.
And I went back into the house again and I was like, OK, I'm
good. And like, could you?
Did the air just smell like smoke?
Could you see fires? Or was it just a big smoke bomb?
You couldn't see fires, you could see smoke, but you could
hear the helicopters, you could see the copters dropping the

(10:54):
water, you could hear the sirens.
And again, you know, we, we in as the Palisades have been
through fire. The Highlands been through it
more than us. The Highlands are the ones that,
and they really only have one way in and one way out.
That's what's really scary. It's similar to Mandeville
Canyon where there's one way in and one way out.
Now there is a fire road and they only open it when if, God

(11:18):
forbid, there's a fire and then now there's two ways out.
But that's it. And I don't know, there are a
lot of people who live up in theHighlands and everyone was
trying to come down one Rd. I'm not even sure you opened the
fire Rd. yet. So no, you, you, you had this
sort of panic mode weren't really, you're kind of still in
denial. Absolutely.

(11:39):
I can totally see that because again, you're talking about such
a nice neighborhood that you just don't think anything can go
bad. You know, this is real talk.
This is like, think of Compton, if Compton, think of the
stereotype of Compton, and then think of the exact opposite.
That's what the Palisades is. You just don't think anything

(12:01):
could go this bad? No.
And, and, and we have people living there who've moved in in
the 1950s that they've been in the same house.
When I first moved to the Palisades, it was in 1997.
And I'll never forget moving to the second, our second home and
my neighbor was 100 years old. And I thought, he's 100.
He's probably gonna, you know, Idon't know how much luck he

(12:23):
lived to 106. Oh my.
Goodness, people who live in thePalisades live a really long,
healthy life. Yeah.
And you have these, you have thethe families that have been
there because of their families.And you have the families that
have moved in. And then you have the small
homes that were built in the 1950s.
And then you also have the homesthat have been built recently.
They're just ginormous mansions,right?

(12:43):
You've got this mixture of different socio economic
backgrounds. It's not just the wealthy, which
is what I'm trying. That was my point.
Okay, actually that's a, that's a great point.
That's a great point because I think when this was happening,
it was kind of in two major areas of Southern California,
Pacific Palisades and then Altadena.

(13:03):
And then Altadena was kind of, Idon't know, I mean, people were
like, OK, that's that's the not so, you know, affluent part of
town. This is the affluent part of
town. OK, So at this point it's
getting to be like 12 noon. Are you packing up a car?
Like are you like, OK, I'm goingto get out of here or I'm going
to wait this out? Honestly, I probably would have
waited it out. Going to wait it out and then I

(13:27):
don't know what you believe in, whether you want to call it God,
creator, light, the source, Buddha, Allah, whatever you
believe in. I got a message and I heard go
now and I thought OK, so I actually had a suitcase that I
had just come back from a trip and I opened it up.
I was kind of taking my time thinking if I was going to wait,
go away for seven days, what would I bring?

(13:47):
And then all of a sudden I heardthat voice or go now.
And immediately I panicked and Iknew that I had to get out.
Yeah, knew that I first thing I did was my dog.
I was like, whoa, I need, she needs food.
She needs her bowls, she needs her bed.
I thought about her. And then I was thinking, I've
got to get my passport. You know, the things that you
think about that you're going toneed.
Yeah, totally. And paperwork, you know, and I,

(14:09):
interestingly enough, I always kept my papers, my important
papers in a, in a basket. I never put them in a filing
cabinet. Couldn't tell you why, but I
thought if I God forbid there was a, if I had to get out of
the house fast, I wouldn't have time to pull, pull everything
out of a filing cabinet. So I had just picked up the
bins. I put them in my trunk, my two
favorite leather jackets, some other person some photos of on

(14:30):
my on my dresser and and I kind of panicked and I literally took
three boots all left. Well, that's funny.
That gives you an idea of where myself were firing.
I went into panic mode and I knew that this was serious and
then I had to get out. I and I yeah, I threw some
sweaters. I threw a bikini top, not even
the bottom one other bathing. I don't even know why I packed a

(14:51):
bathing suit. I couldn't tell you when you
sort of go in panic mode, you'rekind of not thinking about what
to bring. It's the things that I knew I
didn't grab any extra cash. I did grab my purse, my laptop
and and the dog and I got in thecar and as I was packing the
car, another friend drove by andwe looked at one another and and
it was as if we were like Can you believe this is happening?

(15:13):
Is this it felt it felt surreal.And as I was pulling out, my
neighbor looked at me and said are you OK?
Do you need anything? And he was pulling out at the
exact same time. And I said no, but stay in
touch. And as I was going down my hill,
7 fire trucks were coming up to go to the fire Rd. that I just
told you was normally closed andthey were up to the Highlands.

(15:37):
And that's when I knew it's bigger than I even expected.
But as I was pulling out, there was a man running up the hill in
a suit, sweating. And I looked at him.
I go, do you need a ride? And he said, yeah.
And I said, where do you live? And he said up the road, which
is up into where the fire is. Oh my gosh.
He said, get in my car and I drove him and I, he said

(15:58):
Maryville and I drove him up to his house and literally I saw a
huge plume of smoke and I thought, what am I doing in that
moment? And I, I dropped him off and
then I went down and then it wasthe cars weren't moving.
Literally we were sort of in a standstill and he made it down
to sunset, which is another standstill.
And then I I knew that I couldn't go go to sunset and I

(16:21):
remembered the back way again, but I couldn't.
No one was letting me go through.
It was as if people were just, and I get it, everyone was just
focused on getting themselves out and no one wanted to let
anybody make a left. Hand So it really was like a
parking lot in terms of and by and by by this point are we
talking about like one o'clock 2:00?
This is probably if I looked at my if I looked at my phone when

(16:45):
I took that photo, Yeah. 11:20 AM.
My gosh, wow, this is happening super fast.
OK, holy mackerel. Because I remember, I remember
later that evening, or maybe this was the next day, but there
was a scene where PCH people hadjust left their cars.
Like on PCHI remember seeing bulldozers bulldozing through

(17:08):
cars. I mean, that's just surreal.
That's absolutely surreal. OK, so you finally get out of
that, that cluster down. Where'd you go?
I went to Earth Cafe on Main Street in Santa Monica because
the only friends that I have live in the Palisades.
They also how do we evacuate andI don't have any family and I

(17:31):
didn't know where to go. I thought, well, I'll just go
sit at a restaurant and so we can go back to our homes.
Yeah, OK, OK. I had no.
Idea what was going? On that makes sense because at
this point, again, on the 7th, you're probably thinking it's
11:30 AM You're probably thinking, all right, this will
be cleared up by by 6 or 7 even.I'll be back.
I'll be back later tonight. OK, that is wild.

(17:53):
OK, so then obviously you didn'tgo back home.
Did you go back to your house atall?
Was that the last time you saw your house?
God, that's unbelievable. OK, so where did you go back?
No, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Go ahead. No, I remember as I was pulling
onto PCH, it was empty. There was no one on PCH because

(18:14):
everyone already, you know, everything was all the cars were
stuck in the Palisades. And then there was a woman
walking on the side of the road and she was a housekeeper.
And I opened my door and I said,do you need a ride?
And she said she had walked fromthe Highlands, which is a good
to he already been like literally down down on PCH
probably good 2 1/2 miles. And she said she abandoned her

(18:36):
car. OK, OK, so she was she?
Had already abandoned her car and this is again, this is like
11:20 in the morning. So I said, where do you need to
go? She says, could you please bring
me to the gas station on Lincolnso I can call my husband to have
him pick me up. So I drove her to the gas
station on Lincoln and then I went to I went to the restaurant
and sat there until an ex-boyfriend called and he said,

(18:56):
you've got to come to my place. What are you going to do?
And I I said, I don't know. And this is I already been there
for five hours. And he lives in Newport Beach.
So that's I wound, that's how I wound up in Orange County.
I went to. The so you left the all right.
So on the 7th, at some point youwere just like, OK, I'm not
going to make it back home tonight.
I'll just head down there and kind of wait it out.
OK, so then what was that night like?

(19:18):
What was the next day like? Like when did you when did you
find out or realize your house had burned out?
And by the way, did it burn to the ground Like gone?
Everything's gone. That is so violent.
That is just. So I think I told you last time
we talked, you know, every time I talk to you, I look around my

(19:42):
house and I'm like, Can you imagine if this stuff was all
burned to the ground? It's just, it's such a, oh God,
the best word I can think of as violent.
It's just such a violent feeling.
So when did you find out your house was gone?
So the entire night we were watching the app, I don't
remember what that app is, but it's like the fire watch.

(20:03):
You could literally see the homes and where the fire is and
you can clock it. And my ex and I were just glued
to my cell phone watching and listening to the news.
The news was on. And then after a while, I
couldn't, I said, you got to turn the news off.
I'm literally going to have a nervous breakdown.
I couldn't, I couldn't hear it. I couldn't watch it.
It was, it was too much. And my neighbor were still

(20:26):
there. Like my neighbor literally was
on his house with a hose till 7:30 at night.
My goodness. Trying to save his house 2 doors
down from me. Wow.
And literally putting water on my yard and my.
I didn't know this until later but he was literally trying to
save my house. So what happened with his place?

(20:48):
Did he end up saving it or did he end up bailing?
He bailed and burned down. Wow, OK.
So the neighbor to the right of me, his home is still standing.
No way. The neighbor directly to the
right of you still standing and no, no real damage, as if he's
living and he's back in there. He's not, but the neighbor
across the street, her house burned down.

(21:11):
She's renting it from him and she and her husband and son are
living in it right now. And the people from me are back
in their home as well. OK, OK, so let me ask you this
so people can visualize this, your street and your
neighborhood. Like are we talking 20 houses,
50 houses? How many houses are like on your
street? There were probably about, I'd

(21:33):
say 35. OK.
And then and then your well, I guess the block in the
neighborhood, we're talking hundreds of homes, right.
And, and so do you know roughly how many homes survived?
Are we talking five homes that survived or maybe a little bit
more? But.
I can only tell you my street. OK, yeah, your street.

(21:55):
And let's say there were 40. Five homes are still are still
standing. 5 out of 45. OK, gosh, I got to, I got to be
honest. That's a weird feeling for those
people, you know what I mean? And, and again, we're going to
talk about insurance and we're going to talk about, you know,
what's happened since and the, the response of the city and the

(22:16):
governor and all that in a minute.
You know, part of me thinks are,are they better off having their
home survived or are they worse off?
Because that whole area I have to imagine is such a, Oh my God,
I don't even know if I'd want tocome back to that every day,
even if my home is still still standing.
It's like it's such a barren place.

(22:38):
OK, all right, all right, let mestay focused.
So, so the next several days area little bit touch and go and
then you finally through the appyou sort of see it seems as if
your house is affected, but you don't really have a visual
confirmation, right? Well, I did the next day my
neighbor who didn't he was sort of you took a moped into the

(22:59):
into the into the Palisades and sent me a video of my home,
which is burned to the ground. So I knew the next.
Day did did. Did he like prepare you for
that? Like did he call?
You, he said, let them send you.Your house is gone.
That's it. Because I have video and I said
send it, yeah. OK.

(23:23):
Do you remember how you felt? Like what was I?
I don't even know if you remember.
Because you know what it is. Honestly, it's it's similar to
when someone and when someone dies.
Yeah. You go through the seven stages
of grief, right? And the first is shock, shock
and denial. You're just in shock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It happened so fast.
One minute you're there, the next minute everything's gone.

(23:44):
Not just your home, your entire community.
There are people who've lived there since the 50s.
I moved in in 1997. I mean, that was the house that
I raised my son in. So I'd been in that house for
almost 19 years. There's some people who've lived
in their home for 50 years. And they're.
Who couldn't get back to save their pets?
There were people who had to abandon their cars.

(24:04):
Every single person has a different story.
You get. 10 people, all from thePalisades, and every single one
of those people will tell you something different.
We all have a different story. We all have a different
experience. By the grace of God, I got out
or a neighbor didn't, and it took her three hours to do the
same route that I did, 3 miles. What took me 15 minutes took her

(24:27):
three hours. Wow, that's what blows my mind
too. Yeah.
So all of the all of the people that abandoned their cars, I'm
assuming that was maybe either later in the day or gosh, maybe
in the next day because the whole process of the fires being
really bad. I remember.
I mean, that was a three or fourday process, right?

(24:48):
Do you remember? When you what?
What do you mean when you say it's?
Just I mean like, like I remember not thinking it was
over for a few days. Like it seemed like there were
still like, was it a Tuesday night?
Do you remember the exact day? OK.
Let's see. Let's say it was a Tuesday.
I remember 3 or 4 days where like it just felt like it just

(25:09):
kept going and burning and like you didn't know if it was going
to make its way down to Santa Monica, which is the next
neighborhood and all that. Fire trucks.
The fire trucks would stop coming.
Wow. OK, let's.
Talk there was burnt. It was burning like there were
people. People went to save Lake Shrine,
which is a huge public place where people would go to this

(25:31):
particular lake. Parmanza Yogananda brought it,
brought it here. He brought and created this
beautiful shrine. And literally residents went to
save that particular area for for three days themselves
because there were no firefighters.
There was no, I don't know how they where the water came from.
I think they took it from the lake.
That's amazing. That's amazing.

(25:51):
All right, so you were down in Newport Beach, which is which is
a good maybe 60 miles away from the Palisades.
When when did you finally go back to even see, to even see?
Yeah, to even. OK, so was it, was it weeks
before you even saw, you know, the the remains of your home?
Yeah, we weren't allowed to go back because it was still on.

(26:12):
There were still fires. OK, OK.
Right. It was unsafe that there are
wires that had fallen from the telephone poles.
It was just honest to God it looked like a bomb had gone off.
OK, yeah, Jesus Christ, that's. Crazy.
I have more compassion for what the Ukrainians went through.
What, 911? I mean it looked as though it

(26:36):
was AI still can't even express to you.
Driving through it afterwards I felt like I was on a movie set
of Armageddon or terminating it.It just didn't seem real.
Yeah, no, you know, some of the some of the footage and some of
the drone footage that that werewas shot and released, I mean
it, it just looked, I mean, Armageddon, that's a great

(26:58):
analogy. It just looked annihilated,
absolutely annihilated for blockafter block after block after
block. And you're right, you would see
one house here and there. And then I remember there was
like a blue, there was like a blue Volkswagen.
VWAVW. Van or something that was

(27:19):
interesting. We don't have to get into this,
but there's a lot of like talk about how the color blue doesn't
burn or something. And even in the Maui fires,
there were a couple homes that had blue roofs and those don't
didn't burn. I don't need we don't need to
get into the the theories behindthat, but OK, all right, so my
God, so fat. Let's not Fast forward.

(27:42):
But so you finally got back. You finally kind of saw the
remains of everything. I mean, what did that feel like?
Just empty. Again, I was still in shock.
Yeah, yeah, I. Have a video?
Literally I took video of myselfwalking through my gate for the
first time. So because my neighbor tried to

(28:02):
save my house, my I, I had a white picket fence.
Quintessential white picket fence with a gate and an Arbor.
Perfect pristine condition. No way the white picket fence
was still up. Oh my gosh, we.
Wouldn't have known that anything had happened from the
outside. Tall ficus trees, green as ever.
So it was really surreal to thenwalk through and see my trees

(28:26):
charred and black and the one incredibly big pepper tree, just
a dump. It was like the giving tree.
You know, That's worry from whenyou're a kid.
Yeah, beautiful. Tree is now just a stump and and
literally the only thing standing was my fire.
My fireplace, my brick, brick, brick fireplace, chimney and
everything else was just was gone.

(28:48):
And at this point, can you like walk through the yard and stuff?
Like were there any remnants of anything like like something,
something amazing that didn't burn?
Like, I don't know, half of a photo album or anything along
those lines? Nothing and the only thing that
I used to collect dragonflies and and a lot of metal ones and
those are the only things that survived were about 6

(29:10):
dragonflies. All my Buddha I had Buddha
cements, lawn Buddha, they survived.
That's about it. Anything else is gone.
OK, wow, OK. Oh my God, that's just surreal.
And you're right, it's probably it's probably still shock, you
know what I mean? Like, like I have to imagine

(29:30):
part of you still even doesn't really believe that it happened,
that that's so crazy. But I'm so glad we're talking
about it because people need to realize this happened and this
happened this year. And I'm sure every, everybody,
like you said, has their own story and they probably have
their own journey that they've been taking with this, some
probably terrible. I hope yours hasn't been too

(29:54):
bad. Has your, do you mind talking a
little bit maybe about like yourinsurance or like the, the, the
people you have to deal with? And, and maybe we can even start
with like the city and you know,Governor Newsom and all that.
Where have they been in all this?
Have they been good? Have they been bad?
What's that been like? You know, I once I left, I

(30:18):
didn't want to be. I literally turned off the news,
OK? OK, I.
Couldn't listen to anything because so much vitriol against
Karen Bass. There was vitriol against news.
There's, you know, there's, you're going to have two
students, right? You're going to have and
everyone was angry. Of course we have every right to
be angry. We've paid these incredible
taxes and and to watch our city burn to the ground, not just our

(30:42):
homes, but our entire city except for a shopping center,
which was saved because there was a personal fire company that
was. Hired.
I think that was Rick Caruso Shopping Center.
Who's the developer who lost in the mayoral race to Karen Bass.
He hired his own. Yeah, that's pretty.

(31:02):
That's pretty wild. That's pretty wild.
It's also pretty wild that, I mean, I guess he had the
foresight to hire his own personal fire crew, but man,
that's that's pretty crazy. That's pretty crazy.
Did it the things that came out in the news and, and I know
you're saying you weren't totally on top of it, but it did
seem to come out that the reservoir that should have fed

(31:24):
the water, I don't know if it was completely empty or it was
depleted. The fire hydrants weren't
working. Like this is insane that this
was the case in Pacific Palisades because like I said,
this is literally one of the nicest, most pristine
neighborhoods in all of SouthernCalifornia.

(31:45):
And that's saying a lot because there's so many nice
neighborhoods That is crazy thatthat that stuff was was not kept
up the way it should be. And you guys didn't know, you
know, it's not like anyone living there would have expected
that. You would have actually probably
expected the exact opposite, that they were overflowing with
water and all that. That's crazy.

(32:06):
OK. I I, like my neighbors, had
thought it's going to be contained.
Yeah, yeah. I've been in January 1st.
Yeah, yeah. Somebody shot off a firework.
The firefighters came, they put it out, yeah.
But the winds, the strong winds were, I mean, and I've spoken to
a couple of firefighters and they're like, look, Andrea, no
matter how many firefighters youhave, if you've got these winds.

(32:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mother Nature did play a.
Big role. Yeah, that's.
I mean, that's fair. You know, the question.
The question is, even if there was all the water filled up,
even if the hydrants are working, even if the
firefighting crews had not been cut as dramatically as they did,
would it have mattered? You know, would it have

(32:49):
mattered? Would they have been able to do
something? Who the heck knows.
What about, My gosh, did it bring your you and your
neighbors closer together or didit bring you or or or nothing?
Like like in my mind, I'm like, OK, man, this might bring people
closer together or might just push everybody away from each
other, or maybe there's no effect.

(33:10):
Was there any effect along thoselines?
It's a good question. I think both.
I think for the first 3-4 monthsnobody really talked to anyone.
I couldn't speak to anyone. I couldn't even speak to my
friends because everyone had toomany questions and I just, I
couldn't answer. I, I didn't want to talk about
it. I didn't, It was too traumatic.

(33:31):
I was still dealing with the shock.
I someone had said to me it's similar when you have
chemotherapy, when you, when yougo through cancer, you have
chemo brain and you literally can't even string a sentence
together. Can't your synapses are firing
and they're not coming because you've gone through something so
traumatic and traumatizing that you don't even know how to wrap

(33:53):
your head around it. So I think a lot of us just went
inward and then then now there'sthis pally strong.
We're going to bring that we're going to bring the town back.
A lot of people are talking about rebuilding and and getting
permits. And so there's a new group and a
new energy that's happening for those that are choosing to
rebuild. And so there's now a lot of

(34:15):
lawsuits. You asked about the insurance.
Luckily, by the grace of God, I had, I had insurance.
Of course, I was underinsured, but thank God I had insurance.
I had all not the the best, but not the worst.
From whatever I've heard, a lot of people whose home did not
burn down, they unfortunately have gone through even more
trauma. And I have the you're the lucky

(34:38):
1, which sounds crazy to think, oh, I'm lucky because I lost
everything in my house burned down.
But in some ways, some people truly feel that it would have
been easier to just. It was a total loss.
OK, yeah, no, no, totally. And I know there was a big
insurance situation where maybe the summer before some of the
insurance carriers stepped out of California.

(34:59):
So those people lost their fire insurance.
And then here's the thing. I mean, gosh, you know,
everything is so expensive in Southern California to begin
with, insurance included. And then when fire insurance is
a completely separate policy, I mean, I could understand people
not not renewing their fire insurance or even having it.

(35:20):
Like I can totally understand that.
Oh man, what a nightmare for some of those people.
What a nightmare. Are you planning on going back
at all? Or is is do you, do you still
own the land? Right?
Like the lot and all that. I'm still paying the mortgage.
Yeah, I'm still paying property taxes.
Really. They're still making you guys

(35:41):
pay property taxes. Supposedly, supposedly they're
going to lower the property taxes, but I don't know by how
much, but it's isn't much. And my loan, my mortgage company
doesn't care whether my house isstill standing.
I took out a loan and that's my responsibility to pay off that
loan. I did request forbearance.
OK. I can, you know, every three
months I could not have to pay my mortgage, which has been

(36:03):
really helpful. OK.
I did use that. So, so every three months you
get one month where you don't have to pay or what do you, what
do you mean by that? I can say in three months
they'll come and say can you payyour payer loan?
And I can either say yes or no. Oh wow.
OK. OK, got it.
Let's keep. I'm hoping they'll tack it on
the back end of my loan. Got it, got it.

(36:23):
OK, OK, got it. Yeah, I'm.
Sure, we want to. I don't, you know, I'm still not
in a place to make a decision. I can imagine, I can imagine, I
can imagine. It's, it's, it's such a hard
thing to wrap your mind around. Let me ask you this, have you
been approached by any LLC's or any companies that want to buy
the, buy the property from you? Because there is, there is some,

(36:47):
some stories out there. Again, it's so hard to, to, to
decipher what's real and what's not these days.
But there is some stories about,you know, so and so LLC going
into neighborhoods and trying tolike basically trying to buy the
land from people. I don't want to say for pennies
on the dollar, but obviously make them a deal to maybe get

(37:07):
them out of their mortgage and then, you know, add a couple
percentage points so they make alittle bit of money.
Have you been approached by anybody along those lines?
OK. No.
And I, I do have a couple of friends who are Realtors and
what they've told me is ironically, a lot of the homes
that are there lots that are being sold, the families in the

(37:28):
Palisades are buying them for their families or they're,
they've now decided they want a double lot.
Wow, OK, Wow. OK.
Nice problem to have. Yeah.
What about, what about clean up for your lot in your home?
Was that your responsibility to clean everything up?
And has it been cleaned up or what's it look like now?

(37:49):
You did have a choice to go withthe government and let the
government clean up and then they will take the money from
your insurance company or you had the option to hire your own
private. OK.
I think 20% of the residents went with their own company.
I chose to go with the government.
OK. OK.
So they've have they cleaned it up like do you, have you been
back recently? I have.

(38:10):
I heard there's only one home left everything and they did it
in in remarkable amount of time.Wow.
Could have taken a year and a half.
They did in in six months. Wow.
OK, OK, OK. That's interesting.
So right now your place is just kind of like flat dirt.
That was really hard, I'm not going to lie.
I waited. Like they kept calling me and

(38:30):
said you're in the queue, you'rein the queue to have your lot
cleared and I'm going to cry. I wasn't ready.
Yeah. You know, I think it was like
once they cleared it, that's when you really felt like it was
really. Gone.
Yeah, totally, totally. Oh, my God, it really, you said
it earlier. It's it's really like losing
somebody, somebody dying. And then and then like when the

(38:51):
casket gets put on in the ground, that's when you know, Oh
my God, it's so it's a lot. It's a lot.
It's so much. All right.
And then you have people saying,oh, it's only stuff, you can
replace everything. Yeah, I hate when people say
that. It's, it's like my I remember
seeing a video of JJ Redick. He's the head coach of the Los

(39:12):
Angeles Lakers. And again, obviously a guy with
a lot of money. He's the head coach of the
Lakers. So I'm sure there's no shortage
of resources to help him and hisfamily out and all that.
And he was talking about it and there were people like in the
comments section saying, oh, whocares, He's got money.
That's that's, that is such a lack of humanity and empathy for

(39:33):
anyone to say that it's not the financial loss, it's the
emotional loss. Like imagine your, your bed is
gone, your pillow is gone, your couch is gone.
Let alone all the stuff you can't replace, like the photo
albums, the handwritten cards, the this, the that, the little
necklace you bought in in Istanbul six years ago that for

(39:57):
$0.10. But it was so meaningful to you.
Like all of that stuff. That's a meaningful.
Stuff. So anybody that that that
basically tries to say just because a family or a person is
is is wealthy and they can replace it, It's just stuff.
My answer is, yeah, what if it was your stuff?
You'd feel a lot different. My God.
And you know, I, I go between everything happens for a reason.

(40:21):
There's there's a reason it happened or it's to teach us to
be not attached to things, right?
Someone said to me, Andy, you'llnever see a U-Haul behind her,
Hearst And I thought. Yeah, it's still so hard, man.
I mean, listen, I, I, I rememberthe day I met you.

(40:41):
Actually, the night, the night we met.
I kind of was like, man, she's got a great approach to this and
I, I appreciated your mentality.Then I and I appreciate what you
just said, but that's hard, man.It's, it's hard to think about
that and be like, oh, maybe, maybe it was meant for.
That's really hard. That really is like, like I, I

(41:02):
applaud you for taking that approach or trying to
internalize it like that. But my gosh, it also you deserve
to really grieve. You know, like, like truly,
truly grieve. Like I remember when my dad
passed away, like I grieved likecrazy.
And that lasted a good year for me.

(41:25):
I mean, I really, I really grieved for a year.
And now whenever somebody loses a parent or loses somebody, I
mean, my best advice is let yourself grieve.
And so for you, I mean, I think you have let yourself grieve,
which is good, and you do have apositive perspective about it.
OK, Let me ask you, is there anything else you want to tell

(41:45):
us about that? Because I do want to kind of
like, like talk about you're moving on, because I know you
kind of are. And there's something in
particular you're doing that that is helping you move on.
And I do want you to talk about that a little, although I want
to do a whole separate episode about it.
But is there anything else you want to share about just that
experience? It's different for everyone, but

(42:09):
for me, I literally, I went dark.
I'm not going to lie. We couldn't see the forest
between the trees. I thought, everything's gone.
What's like? And then I was reminded your son
was away. Thank God you got you got home
and got your dog and you're safe.
So I'm grateful, right? I could sit in gratitude and say

(42:30):
thank that I was able to get home, right?
And there are some people who didn't even make it back home.
They were on mutation or they were at work and they couldn't
get back into the palisade. And, and there's no trauma
competition at all. Because I'm still going to feel
what I'm going to feel. But at the same time, if I find
myself spiraling, I'm going to try to bring it back to

(42:50):
gratitude and know that I do have a choice, right?
In fact, I just read this incredible book called The
Choice. It's a Holocaust survivor, and
she came out with her story after she read Viktor Frankel's
Man's Search for Meaning. And as as horrific and horrible
as their experience was, as my experience is, we have a choice.
And we could live in a victim mode and we could say, Oh my

(43:12):
gosh, I have nothing. And everything was taken and
poor me and I'm going to live inthis.
And I could do that. Or I have to say, all right, I
got to brush myself off. This happened.
I've got to rise above it now what, right?
How can I help others? I've become so much more
compassionate #1I. Could imagine.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, even you, when you lose a parent and someone says I just

(43:33):
lost my dad, you now can feel even more for this person
because you, too, lost your father.
Absolutely, absolutely. Meet somebody and go, oh, my
God, you just lost your house ina flood.
I am. So I get it.
I feel you more. I am so much more compassionate.
Yeah. It's a lot, man.
It's a lot. All right, let's talk for a

(43:56):
minute. I feel like, well, let's see,
what are we? February, March, April.
We're six months out. Seven months out.
It seems like you found something and I do want you to
tell us a little bit about Hoffman that is that is helping
you. So talk us through that.
So there's something called the Hoffman process that I had heard
about because the ex-boyfriend who actually, yeah, I say he

(44:17):
rescued me from the fire. He actually really did.
By the way, I have to ask this question because I know
everybody's dying to know this answer.
Did you and the ex-boyfriend getback together?
Did you get back together over this?
No. OK.
No. OK.
All right, all right, but he is he will forever be one of the
most important people in my life.
I mean he that's. Amazing.
There's something to be said about loving your exes because

(44:39):
at one point you loved this person.
You really did right? You're totally right.
Absolutely. I mean my ex-husband.
I had a child with my ex-husband.
Yeah. So thank God I'm still friends
with my exes. Yeah.
But he he, I am so grateful to him for, for a myriad of

(44:59):
reasons, because he was the one who even said go to go to.
I had nowhere to go. I had to live in a hotel.
I didn't want to stay with him again.
I love him to death. But after five days, there's a
reason you don't want to be withyour ex anymore.
And I went to live in a hotel, which happens to be in Laguna
Beach, which is where I'm still,I'm like, I'm staying here now.
I, I don't want to move again. And it's just too traumatic.
I don't own a fork. I mean, thank God I found a

(45:21):
condo that literally was furnished and had everything
because it's starting over. You literally, I don't, I don't,
I didn't have anything right. I mean, you just, you just said,
you just said something that I want to repeat because I just
want people to understand. You said I don't own a fork.
Like that's insane. I mean, you're right because

(45:42):
everything was in your house andit's gone.
But again, I just want people tounderstand that, you know, like
you go from having everything you want in your life to to
literally not having a fork. OK, All right, All right.
So you didn't get you didn't getback together with the axe.
Say that again. I said there is something for
also freeing. That's a good point as well.

(46:06):
That's a good point as well. There definitely is something
freeing and something liberatingand almost like, OK, well, what
do I, what do I want to do todayor where do I want to go or what
I want to do? That's a very good point.
That's a very good point. All right, so you did not get
back together with the XI Had toask that.
I'm sure people wanted to know that.
All right, tell us about Hoffman.

(46:27):
So back to the ex, he had done Hoffman, He had done Hoffman of
a year before I had met him and I had heard about Hoffman, but I
didn't quite know what it was. But for the past 10 years, I've
been on my own healing journey, breath work, working with a life
coach, therapy since I was 30, you know, dealing with the

(46:49):
trauma that I had as a child, the baggage that I need from
from my childhood, Iowaska, psilocybin, you name it, reading
the books, the self help books, reading every book that Oprah
had in her book club. So I've been on healing journey
of in the transformation and howcan I be a better version of
myself? I'm a seeker.
I'm curious, I want to learn. And he knows this about me.

(47:11):
And he said, Andy, Oprah just did a podcast on the Hoffman
process. You've got to listen to it.
And I think you'd be an amazing Hoffman teacher.
And I looked at him and I thought, OK, And in that moment,
it kind of gave me hope because not only did I lose my house, I
lost my community, I also lost my purpose.

(47:31):
I was teaching a mindful and meditation class to 3rd graders
at the school that my son went to.
And the half the school burned down, lost my job, my purpose.
And, and I'm, I'm floating going, what am I going to do?
Where am I going to work? What, what's next?
What career? You know, I'm sort of, I don't
have a house. My son is at college.
He can't even stay with me because his internship is in

(47:54):
Santa Monica and I'm too far away.
And I'm all these things are. And I said I couldn't see the
forest between the trees and I was really in a dark place and
my apps knew this. And I think he wanted to give me
hope. And like he said, Andy, this
would be your way of serving andgiving back and using what you
just went through the trauma that you have just experienced,
the trauma from your childhood, all the work you've done on

(48:15):
yourself. You're teaching.
I used to teach 3rd grade. I have a teaching degree, my
backgrounds and psychology. So I watched the Oprah episode
and I learned more about the Hoffman process and I thought,
wow, this is actually interesting.
And I went online and it's a twoyear program and one of the is
you have to take the week long process.
You go and, and immerse yourselfand do the Hoffman process and

(48:38):
it's a seven day process. And I thought, all right, I
signed up and I it was already booked.
And, you know, Oprah mentions anything, it turns to gold.
So already people are, are wanting to know what is this
Hoffman process? And I think Orlando Bloom was
one of the guests and he talked about it.
And they had an opening in February and I signed up for

(48:59):
February. And then my ex said, no, you got
to get in sooner. Go on the wait list.
I went on the wait list and it happened to be we have an
opening next week. And I thought, oh, do I really
want to dig up not only my childhood, but now I'm going to
dig up the trauma from what I just went through.
Yeah. And wait, this is February of
this year, so like this was maybe.

(49:21):
Of next year I was supposed to go.
February of next year. Got it, Got it, Got it.
OK. I thought, OK, by next February
I'll feel better. Got it.
Got it. OK.
I'll, I've worked through the trauma from the fire and then it
was, no, we have an opening nextweek.
And I thought, oh, I'm going to now open the can of worms of my
childhood again. And now I'm also going to feel

(49:45):
the pain of losing my house. And also I realized losing my
house also triggered a lot of mychildhood abandonment of what I
went through as a child. You know, my grandparents raised
me. I was taken from school every
year. I was a snowbird at 5.
They were already retired. They they like to live in
Pennsylvania, they like to live in Florida.
I was pulled out of school. I never had AI, never had a home

(50:08):
base. So on top of me never having a
home base, for me to lose my home base of 18 years, it just
brought up a lot of stuff for mychildhood.
He wants to report. I went for the week process and
it was amazing because it allowed me to get out a lot of
anger. Anger from not just my

(50:29):
childhood, but anger from how I felt was losing my home, my
community, my friends, everything that was taken from
me so quickly. I was sad and depressed, but I
wasn't allowing myself to express anger.
It's interesting someone said, you know, men, maybe it was you
we were talking about. Men can express their anger, but
we but, and they don't cry. We as women will cry, but we're

(50:52):
not going to express our anger. That definitely was not me
because I cry a lot. That's so good.
I love that I just admitted thatname.
It's healthy. It's healthy.
It is. It is.
I'll tell you after I cry, I feel so much better.
Oh my God, I really do. I really feel so much better.
OK. So you, you did the Hoffman, you

(51:13):
did it for a week and now you are going to be a teacher of
that. I don't know.
They say don't make any decisions for 60 days after you
come back. Don't sell your home, don't get
divorced, don't change jobs. Just let everything sort of
settle. You open Pandora's box again,
integrate with what you learned,the tools you expressed
yourself. You released a lot.

(51:33):
So yeah, I'm going to wait before I make any decisions.
But if I worked, yes, it would be a beautiful 2nd chapter of my
life and to take what I went through my trauma and to help
others and serve and listen whenwe heal, others heal and when
others heal, we heal. And it would be sort of a
beautiful way for me to serve and give back, if that's.

(51:55):
Amazing. OK, OK, all right, all right.
And so OK, that's but but it's helped you, right?
Like it's really helped you. Probably.
It's funny how you opened your interview, your introduction,
when we had said I am, I'm willing to talk to you about the
fire. I don't think I was ready.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could, I probably could not

(52:15):
have had this conversation without crying the whole way
through. Got it.
Yeah. Totally.
I believe, no, I believe it. And that was only 30-40 days
ago. So like, OK, so it definitely
has helped you. That's amazing.
That's amazing. Well, let's do, let's do this.
Once you take your little cool down period with Hoffman and
decide what you want to do with it depending on whatever you

(52:36):
decide, actually, I think it'd be really cool to have you come
back on and kind of talk us through that and really where
you're taking that and what you decided to do with that.
And then also if there's any, any updates on, you know, I do
keep an eye on what's going on in both Palisades and Altadena.
And there there's some interesting moving parts.

(52:56):
There's some interesting moving parts.
All of the sudden permits are being given out a 50%
residential, 50% commercial. All these real estate developers
are moving in to build like highrises.
A lot of that's in Altadena, butlately I've heard about it in
the Palisades as well. There was actually, I think I
sent this to you, there was a foreign investor who came in

(53:19):
with like 60 to 75,000,000 and bought up a lot of the lots in
the Palisades. So there's some tomfoolery going
on with all this stuff. So I'll keep an eye on all that.
But anyway, listen, I just wanted to honestly, I, I really
appreciate you or so I'm so gladyou're in a place that you can

(53:40):
talk about this. And I, I know I speak for
everyone and saying you really have helped us appreciate what
we have and not going through something like you did.
I just give you so much credit. It's a lot, You know, it's like,
no matter how much anyone tries to find the silver lining, and I

(54:03):
know there are some and, and I know you've really, really
decided to take that approach. It's a lot.
And it's like, it's like anybodythat tries to minimize it, I'm
like, wait, I hope it doesn't happen to you.
But until you walk in those shoes and until that happens to
you, you can't. You can't give people advice,

(54:25):
you know, like, like I would never give you advice on what to
do because I don't have that experience and I'm not arrogant
enough to think I do so. But Ray on on advice, I would
like to share two things. One right now, today, take video
and photos of your house room byroom, drawer by drawer, just so
you have it on your computer. That's amazing advice, told me

(54:49):
that. And some people were smart as
they were running out, they tookvideo and I didn't do that.
And also, if you ever have to evacuate, whether it's a
tornado, a tsunami, a fire, takethings like you're never going
back. Yeah.
OK, that's my advice. Anyone and everyone take things
like, you're not going back. Don't be in that place of, oh,
it's where I'm going to go back.So do that.

(55:10):
And also if you want more information on the Hoffman
Institute, it's hoffmaninstitute.org.
So. I will, I will put.
I know absolutely I'll. I'll.
Put that in my. Absolutely.
I'll put that link in the show notes.
All right, everybody, this, I think I set this episode up
properly because this was super meaningful.
Andy, thank you so much. Love right back to you.

(55:32):
I really appreciate it. Honestly, hang on the line.
All right, everybody, call a spade a spade.
Call your parents, appreciate what you have and and your
advice was amazing. Take video and photos of your
entire house, room by room and actually make sure you know
where all your important stuff are.
Catalog all your important stuff.
Make sure you know, you know where the passport is, where

(55:53):
this is where that is, you know,keep, keep that stuff.
Don't don't wait until somethingtragic happens.
Get ahead of that. All right, hang on the line.
All right everybody, We'll talk to you soon.
This episode was brought to you by Zip X Nicotine toothpicks.
Zip More Smoke less. Totally satisfying, discreet and

(56:14):
delicious, Zip X nicotine infused toothpicks are available
in six great flavors, each containing at least 2 milligrams
of nicotine to curb those cravings.
Zip X is FDA registered and proudly made in the USA.
Use discount code DSD for 10% off your order at Zip
xtoothpicks.com. Zip more, smoke less, Save 10%.

All Episodes

EP#369 | GUEST | Burned to the Ground: Andi Wagner & the 2025 Pacific Palisades Fire

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP#369 | GUEST | Burned to the Ground: Andi Wagner & the 2025 Pacific Palisades Fire