EP#370 | DSD | Charlie Kirk: Who Benefits, Who Reacts, and What Now? - Deep Shallow Dive

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Free audio post production bio phonic.com The following podcast
is a deep, shallow dive production and you're going to
love it. OK, let's go.
Hey, what's up, everybody? Happy Thursday, September 11th.
Holy mackerel. All right, so I was going to try

(00:25):
to get this out last night, but you know what?
I wanted to wait a little bit and just gather my thoughts and
oh man, this is going to be an interesting episode today
because I think in potentially many ways, I don't know, I'll
probably piss people on one sideoff, piss people on the other
side off. But you know what?
I honestly am at a point where I'm realizing if I piss people

(00:50):
off on both sides, I'm probably finding the truth and I'm not.
And I'm not even kidding about that.
Like we are in a situation whereanybody that is so divided and
is completely all on one side and I don't even know if I want

(01:12):
to call it right or left anymore.
But again, I mean, this will make sense because obviously a
bulk of today is going to be talking about Charlie Kirk and,
you know, his assassination, hismurder, his killing, whatever
you want to call it, God, peopleare even arguing about how to
refer to it. But my point initially is that

(01:35):
whatever I guess position you take, if you're so black and
white and one sided on it, then that is exactly the way that I
think a, you know, potentially evil larger entity.
And I'm not even going to definethat today.

(01:55):
I'm really not. But I think that if you are so,
you know, maybe I should use left and right because honestly,
I do think one of one of the twomajor divisions that is
attempting to just be completelysplit wide open even further
than it already is, quite frankly, is the the left versus

(02:19):
right. So, you know, conservatives
versus liberals. Thank you.
Greg Stoker. It's really that, you know, I
don't even know if I want to call it Democrats versus
Republicans necessarily, but I guess you can call it that.
You can call it Democrats slash liberals, OK, versus Republican

(02:40):
slash conservatives. That division is obviously
pretty goddamn wide, but I thinkthat that division is wanting to
be widened by, again, the quote,UN quote, powers that be, OK?
Now, the other division is on religious, religious lines, OK.

(03:01):
And that division is between Muslims and the religion of
Islam. Remember a long time ago I
defined that the religion is Islam, the people that practice
it are known as Muslims, and then Christianity and
Christians. So that division between Muslims
and Christians, which by the way, those are by far the two

(03:25):
largest groups when it comes to organized religion.
Let me get the numbers real quick.
All right, Christians globally, 2.3 to 2.6 billion people.
Muslims globally, 2.0 to 2.1 billion people.
And that's based off of Pew Research numbers.
So that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good breakdown
actually. You know what I obviously I use

(03:47):
ChatGPT for that. Then it says if you want
breakdowns by regions, Asia, Africa, Americas, I can pull
those too. Let me ask for that real quick
and see what it comes back with.But anyway, the, the religious
divide between Muslims and Christians and then obviously
the political divide in the United States, really in the

(04:08):
United States, I'm focusing on in the United States between
liberals slash Democrats and Republicans slash conservatives.
OK, So those are really the two enormous divisions that I am
just seeing absolutely being divided for lack of a better way

(04:33):
to put it. OK, All right, So I'm going to
start playing actually, you know, before I start playing
some Charlie Kirk clips because I'm going to play a lot of them
because I think it I think it really is good to take this all
in. You know, I want to say this,
and maybe I should just read what I posted last night.
But before I read that, you know, again, violence and death
and whatever you think of Charlie Kirk or whatever you

(04:55):
thought of of Charlie Kirk, he did not deserve to die.
He just didn't. And again, you know, he's such a
divisive guy, or he was such a divisive guy.
The reaction on social media hasbeen, I guess, actually perfect
in the sense that most of the reaction has been the polar

(05:16):
extremes. You know, people that are is is
as crazy as it sounds, people that are glad and say, hey, he
deserved what he got because he was an advocate for, let's say,
guns. That's part of it there.
There's actually all right, man,this is getting interesting.
Wow. We're going to get super deep
today, but we're going to stay shallow.

(05:37):
And I think it's all going to make sense.
You know, there is a giant groupof people that that hated
Charlie Kirk because of his stances on LGBTQ, his stances on
black people, his stances on, you know, kind of the, the, the

(05:57):
stereotypical dividing factors here in the United States.
OK, take Gaza out of the mix. There's one group of people and
those are really the the liberals.
And again, not the leftist. Remember, we're talking liberals
here, man. That that those terms really are
confused on social media. Everybody refers to them as

(06:18):
leftist when again, they're liberals.
Thank you, Greg Stoker. Anyway, so there's the one group
that that really were against him because of all of that
stuff, OK, I honestly look at all of that stuff as circa 2020.
Like we have moved far beyond that.

(06:38):
The battle that is taking place right now, it has has progressed
way past that. OK, This is not about, you know,
transgender bathrooms anymore. Who gives a fuck about that?
Like, who cares? We've moved on from that topic,
OK, This is, is now moving into such a bigger, bigger overall

(07:01):
topic. And honestly, the best way I can
really equate it, ironically, being that it is 911, we're
basically moving into another potential phase of something
like a 911 happening, causing a 20 year forever war and the

(07:22):
invasion of seven countries in five years.
I mean, seriously, like connect this all the way back to General
Wesley Clark. That speech, I'm not going to
play it again, but the speech that he gave about 7 countries
in five years. Take this all the way back to
all the discussions we've had about, you know, the forever
wars in Afghanistan, in Iraq. We invaded Iraq, they threw over

(07:47):
Iraq, killed Saddam Hussein because of 9/11, and Saddam had
nothing to do with 911. So all of that stuff happened
because of that 2001 neoconservative playbook.
I've played that project for a new American Century for you
guys before. I'll get into all that stuff
again and maybe a recap episode,but that's where I see us now.

(08:09):
And really, that's the battle I see.
OK, So you know, transgender bathroom and LGBTQ rights and
all of those stuff. I'm not saying that stuff's not
important, but that was literally 2020 to 2024.
We have moved way past that. OK, so let me play this clip.

(08:30):
This is like a random dude on Instagram.
I thought he did a really nice job and this is setting a good
stage for the rest of the discussion.
Do you think the Charlie Kirk death was a left versus the
right? You are probably also the same
group that believes JFK was killed randomly.
There's too much going on where any of this could be

(08:53):
coincidence. What I mean is we have a trans
shooter goes into a Catholic school, then it just a few days
ago we have a Ukrainian refugee who gets murdered on a train.
By the way, really quick, I probably shouldn't interrupt
this, but I do want to interruptit.
You know that Ukrainian girl that got murdered on the train
by that black kid or black dude?I mean, that was horrible,

(09:13):
absolutely horrible. But I will say this about it and
again, God, I hate doing that. I hate saying something and then
saying but but there's weirdnessabout that.
God rest her soul. She did not deserve that by any
stretch of the imagination. But I will say the fact that she
was Ukrainian was, was odd. And then secondly, what Elon

(09:35):
Musk and this other guy did on social media the next day.
So if you didn't see this some random guy, he must have been
Ukrainian, but he offered $500,000 or he put up $500,000
for people around the United States to paint murals of her.
And every anyone who painted it,he'd basically send them

(09:57):
$10,000. And then Elon chimed in and
said, I'll give $1,000,000. And in my mind, first of all, I
immediately started having kind of George Floyd vibes with all
of the murals that went up aboutGeorge Floyd.
But in my mind, I'm like, you know what?
Like why? Again, rest her soul.
Awful, awful, awful, awful. I can't stress that enough.

(10:20):
But I am sure across the United States on that same day, which
by the way, she died on August 22nd and the story just broke a
few days ago, but I am sure on that same August 22nd day, which
was my birthday by the way, I'm sure thousands of people got
killed in the United States. You didn't hear anything about
those. And since August 22nd till till

(10:43):
today, I'm sure thousands more people have been murdered and
you don't hear anything about those.
So it was a little bit odd that all of the sudden Elon and this
other guy are basically like wanting to pay people $10,000 to
put up murals of this girl. That's strange.

(11:06):
Like, again, rest in peace, resther soul.
She did not remotely deserve that.
But to have literally $1.5 million worth of murals around
the United States at $10,000 a pop?
Hold on, let me figure out how many murals that is.

(11:26):
That's 150 murals of this girl around the United States.
I don't know. I found that strange.
I found that strange. And then now today we have
Charlie Kirk. If this doesn't scream
ideological and cultural subversion, I don't know what to
tell you. There's four stages to that.
And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are in the
final stages. But no one else is aware of the

(11:48):
bombings in Qatar, what's currently happening in Gaza.
We are literally funding A genocide.
It's the perfect example of division creating tensions and
hatred and violence toward different groups.
We're all the same. And while you're causing that
division between a nation, you're also then causing a
distraction. And we just talked about what
those distractions would be. And I'm also sure you're aware

(12:09):
of what day is rapidly approaching US.
Open your eyes. It's not the left versus the
right. Now, what I urge you all to do,
look at Germany in the early 1900s.
Really do some deep dive research and come back and tell
me if it is not identical to what is happening in modern day
America. All right, couple things on
that. I mean, obviously he's talking

(12:30):
about today and that's another thing.
I mean, think about it 911 and talking about 911 today is
definitely taking a back seat obviously to to everything going
on talking about Charlie Kirk. By the way, the crazy thing
about that clip is that's a guy named Kenny Ku, Kenneth Boulot.

(12:50):
He's got 462,000 followers on Instagram.
The dude is like tattooed. He's he's a big white dude, like
a big, big old white guy. Like built like a brick
shithouse built like Scott Sievert's actually seriously,
Scott Sievert's with hair and a beard and crazy tattoos.
Like he's got sleeves on both ofhis arms.

(13:13):
It looks like his chest and everything is tatted up.
And then he's even got tattoos on his neck.
So he's not a guy that I don't know, man.
He dropped some, some some bombsin that and some nuggies in that
for sure. And again, it speaks to if you
are still thinking about the world as left versus right, I

(13:35):
think, I think you're being passed by.
We have far gotten past that. That is circa 2020 and we are in
a we're in a different battle. We really are in a different
battle. OK, let me now read what I
posted last night on social media because again, I do
really, I do really feel this way.

(13:56):
And I think I captured a lot of my thoughts, which were very,
you know, raw at the time last night with this post.
All right. I basically said the title was a
sad world across the board. First of all, my deepest
condolences to Charlie Kirk's parents, his wife, and
especially his two young children who were robbed today

(14:17):
of a father. Honestly, I have not liked much
of what Charlie seemed to have transformed into.
And he was creating division versus Muslims, blacks and
immigrants. He just was.
I saw it daily. But that doesn't mean he
deserved to die. He deserved to lose debates, not
die. For those expressing outrage,

(14:40):
but you have been 100% silent while 220 Palestinian
journalists and 62,000 have alsobeen murdered.
Maybe think through that. For those expressing joy over
this because of his lack of empathy to one of the above
mentioned groups, Again, think through that as that's also a

(15:02):
dark reaction. Let's see who they say did it,
then let's see who gains from that. 1 + 1 is not two anymore.
Calling a spade a spade, all right?
That's seriously how I felt. And, and, and really that
touches on, you know, four different, four different
topics. The first and foremost being,
you know, I do offer my deepest condolences to his parents, his

(15:25):
wife. And again, he's got two young
children, I think like ages 3 and 1.
I think he just had a baby recently.
I mean, that's sad, man. And if you can't get yourself to
a place where you're sad for those kids not having a father,
I don't know, man, that's prettydark.
Now I get it. I get it.

(15:46):
The dude was divisive AF and there's a lot of bad things
about it. But you know, I think that that
the concept of empathy is one that that doesn't have to be
finite. You know, like you can, you can
have a variety of emotions aboutthe same topic.
And those emotions oceans could span from love to hate.

(16:07):
And and that really is seen. That really seems like what is
taking place in terms of the reaction about Charlie Kirk from
from both sides and the ones that are like all love.
And then there's the ones that are all hate.
And honestly, I mean, I'm I'm directly in the middle of that.
I mean, there are things that I just did not appreciate that he

(16:28):
was doing and I'm going to play them for you and I'm going to
point them out. But at the same time, there were
other things, for example, during COVID, Charlie Kirk was
was solid during COVID. I discovered him during COVID.
And I was like, wow, this guy isunbelievably articulate.
He is unbelievably good at, you know, debating and going into

(16:50):
these college campuses where it's him sometimes against
hundreds of, you know, liberal students.
And it was always a respectful conversation.
You have to give him his due on that.
You really do do again, even if you didn't agree with the things
he talked about or the stances he took.

(17:10):
You know honestly I I could not find a clip where he was was
outwardly disrespectful in a nasty way to a college student.
Now, again, he had harsh rhetoric to that college
student, but it wasn't calling names.
Actually, maybe that's the better way to put it.

(17:31):
I, I have never seen Charlie Kirk like calling a college
student an F bomb or stupid or things like that.
Maybe there are some out there and if there are those clips,
send them to me. But I haven't seen that he
really did engage in discussion.Now, again, you might not like
his takes or his positions on things, but I will say the guy

(17:53):
was was absolutely creating a conversation.
And I do think there is, there is, there's something good about
conversation. There is.
Now, with all that being said, Oh my God, I'm think I'm going
to say with all that being said,like 100 times today.
All right, let's get into some things.
All right, let me start off by playing this clip from him

(18:14):
because this is a clip from October 12th, 2023, so literally
five days after October 7th. And this is him on the Patrick
David Patrick bet David podcast.And I will say this was at the
beginning of all this stuff. And this is like the the most
honest Ross take on on the situation going on in Gaza

(18:38):
because again, this was five days later before things got to
where they are now. Again, remember this is October
12th, 2023, so two years ago. How did these guys not know this
was taking place? So I've been Israel many times.
The whole country's a fortress. When I first heard this story, I
still had the same gut instinct that I did initially.

(18:59):
I find this very hard to believe.
I've been to that Gaza border. You cannot go 10 feet without
running into a 19 year old with an AR15 or an automatic machine
gun. That is an IDF soldier, right?
The whole country is surveilled.And so let me just kind of go
through this. We don't talk about Israeli
politics very often and most Americans don't know this.
The last nine months, Israel wason the brink of civil war.

(19:21):
It's not an exaggeration, this judicial stuff.
There were there were hundreds of thousands of Israelis taking
to the streets because Bibi Netanyahu was basically
redefining the Israeli constitution.
That's not an exaggeration, right?
He said the judicial branch has too much power.
There were protests planned thisweek against Netanyahu where
they anticipated 10s of thousands of people to take to
the streets. That's all gone, Patrick.

(19:44):
Honestly, the kid was intelligent.
He really was. OK, there's a little bit more,
but what I wanted to interject real quick is, man, everything
he talked about that judicial reform, I'm going to revisit
that in another episode. But remember, and this, this
speaks to 911, this was exactly what happened with George W
Bush. Remember, everybody hated George
W Bush. They thought he was a clown. 911

(20:07):
happens. All that's gone.
That's all gone. Patrick, that could apply to the
discussion with George W Bush and what happened after 911.
Nationalism took over, OK, Nationalism took over in the
United States and in Israel after October 7th.
This is, I'm telling you, man, history repeats itself and

(20:28):
there's case studies and they follow those case studies.
Netanyahu now has an emergency government and a mandate to
lead. I'm not, I'm not willing to say
to go so far that saying that Netanyahu knew or there was
intelligence here. But I think some questions need
to be asked. Was there a stand down order?
Was there a stand down order? Six hours.

(20:49):
I don't believe it. Israel's the side of new size of
New Jersey. When I took a helicopter ride
from Jerusalem to the Gaza border, it's 45 minutes.
Wow, six hours. They're live streaming the
killing of Jews. Was that somebody in the
government say stand down? That is a legitimate non
conspiracy question. That seriously was such an

(21:10):
excellent take across the board.That was October 12th, 2023.
All right, So what happened after that was that following
week, Charlie Kirk got just attacked and crushed on social
media and then also his turning point USA.
By the way, I just remembered, Oh my God, that episode with

(21:30):
Carolyn Stout talked all about her leaving the Turning Point
USA and Charlie Kirk's organization.
Man, I can need to reach out to her and see how she's doing
because even though I think she was no longer a fan, that that
has to be a little bit traumaticfor her.
I'll have to do that. And if you didn't listen to that
episode, it's pretty good. I mean, gosh, it probably would

(21:50):
make a lot more sense now. But the episode with Carolyn
Stout, I forget when I released it.
I think I released it on Friday anyway.
So what happened was after that episode on Patrick Bet David,
Charlie Kirk got crushed on social media.
There was all this, you know, his donors for his turning point
USA said, hey, we're going to leave you unless you apologize

(22:14):
for saying all that. And he did.
He apologized for saying all of that that he did on that Patrick
Bet David podcast, which which was an excellent, excellent
podcast. I'll probably go listen to it
again and maybe bring in other clips.
But anyway, he ended up apologizing and basically kind
of like succumbing to that. And since then he never spoke

(22:38):
about any of that stuff ever again and honestly took the
exact opposite side. And that's one of the reasons,
you know, he's so hated by by a certain group of people because
he really was kind of a pro. I don't know if I should say pro
genocide because obviously I don't think he'd ever say he was

(23:00):
pro genocide, but he had 000 empathy or any real
acknowledgement of what was taking place in Gaza to
Palestinian women and children. And so that became the second
big thing a gigantic group of people, you know, really, really
attacked him for. And honestly, that is what that

(23:23):
group is celebrating now. Again, I don't celebrate death
like that, so I'm not a fan of that.
Regardless of everything Charliesaid, the person that's going to
take the opposite of that will say, and by the way, I posted a
bunch of things and got a lot ofthese comments and they said,
they said, you know, he was somebody that that advocated and

(23:44):
supported for this genocide. So I don't feel sorry for him,
man. It's a, it's a, it's a, it is a
crazy topic. It really is because you can
honestly see both sides of everything.
Well, at least I can see both sides of everything and, and I
can admit I can see both sides of everything.

(24:06):
Part of the goal of today is to kind of show you both sides of
everything and and really just, you know, again, form your own
opinions about stuff. Oh man, this is going to be a
long 1 today. All right, let me set up the
next clip. So this was literally just maybe
a month ago, and I might have talked about this on a episode a
month ago, but this was Charlie gathering like like 30 Gen.

(24:27):
Z kids that I think are Christians or Catholics.
And basically this is kind of, you know, this was when really
he he was losing a lot of his followers and he was losing a
lot of young Gen. Z kids who are not happy at at
really what was taking place in Gaza.
It really comes back to that. And in particular, I believe

(24:50):
this was after the Ted Cruz debacle on Tucker Carlson, if
you guys remember that. And so he gathered these kids in
kind of a round table and, you know, kind of basically gave
them a voice. Now, again, I don't know if he
was trying to Jedi mind to trickthem and say, hey, yeah, yeah,

(25:12):
we hear you and sort of appease them or if he genuinely was
wanting to get their opinion. I don't know.
There's a little bit of debate on that.
But I think in the Jay Slay USA episode recently with Jeremy
Slade and him and I kind of talked about that and I was
like, was Charlie playing 4D chess?

(25:32):
And then Jeremy said, you know, I don't think so.
I think he basically was trying to not lose his gigantic Turning
Point USA or, or a lot of his Turning Point USA followers
because a lot of those followers, for example, as
you'll hear in this clip, they were not down with the way Ted
Cruz was trying to weaponize Christianity and weaponize

(25:55):
Genesis 12. Three.
All right, give this a listen. How many of you guys think when
a lawmaker and a man I respect like Ted Cruz uses the Bible to
justify aid to Israel doesn't even know the verse?
Do you guys think that's like not the best way to approach
this? Raise your hand.
OK. I think Ted Cruz's Genesis 12
three. I think a lot of people see that

(26:16):
as off putting when you look at the new test.
Why? Because I think a lot of people,
they look especially at the writings of Paul where he talks
about how that the new flesh is not the same as the people in
the old covenant. The new flesh is everybody's.
Everyone's included. About Romans 9.
Yes. 96, yeah. Are you Catholic converting to
Catholic from you can tell this is my next from Judaism.
Yes. Oh, wow.

(26:36):
So So you're Jew, you're ethnically Jewish, ethnically
Jewish, and you have concerns about APEC?
Let me jump in right here. So this is where he kind of
started talking about APAC and man, I'll tell you, I don't know
God. I've gone I've gone different
ways on whether I guess I shouldn't say weather where
Charlie Kirk really netted out on this stuff.

(26:58):
You know, again, like I said, you're going to hear things
where you're going to be like, Oh my God, he's so pro Israel
and he's totally like drank all that kool-aid and he's buddies
with Netanyahu, which he was. And Netanyahu put out a put out
a weird tweet. Actually.
I'll have to read that for you guys.
And then there's other clips you're going to hear where

(27:19):
you're like, wow, that's pretty insane that he said that.
So this is the beginning of maybe thinking, Oh my gosh, OK,
where does this guy net out on all this?
Yes, I do. I'm told that by some people
that if I criticize APEC, I'm anti-Semitic.
I think it's ridiculous. Yeah.
I feel like it's great to have aconcern for your country.

(27:40):
Do you think that the that APEC represents, Again, I'm not
saying I believe this, but I think this is what you're
saying, that it represents a kind of cutting in line of
prioritization away from the American people.
Would you guys say that's a fairsummary, meaning that like, OK,
we vote, we're citizens, but a separate group gets higher

(28:03):
priority because of whatever reasons?
All right, I mean, that was pretty wild.
That was pretty wild that whole segment.
Gosh, I'll probably go back and watch it.
But again, you know, the the thething I didn't know is, is he, I
mean, he's asking the tough questions on that.
He really is. But the reason he's asking them
of that group and by the way, the demographic was that was

(28:25):
like 20 or 30 white Gen. Z kids.
And I think it was all men actually.
I don't think there were any women in there, but maybe there
were women. But overall you're talking about
that was all like white kids. And you can tell they and by the
way, white Christians or Catholics, OK.

(28:46):
And you can tell they were not down with the direction of, you
know, I guess supporting Israel at all costs.
And so the question became with that whole, that whole segment
and that whole thing that he did, was he really wanting to
give them a voice? Or again, was this a way to make

(29:07):
them feel quote UN quote heard and then kind of carry on as
usual? Let me read you something.
This video is Charlie Kirk recently sitting down with 25
Gen. Z students, opening the floor to
them to question how their faithis being used in politics and
it's recirculating on social media.
The flashpoint Senator Ted Cruz trying to weaponize Genesis 12

(29:32):
three in defense of Israel without even understanding the
verse. I will bless those who bless you
and curse those who curse you has become a political bludgeon.
These students weren't afraid tocall it out.
But here's the bigger question. What was Kirk's real play here?
Was he genuinely opening space for these young Christians to

(29:52):
wrestle with Gaza, Israel, and Scripture?
Or was it a way to make them feel heard without shifting the
ground under under Turning PointUSA?
He gave them the mic. He let them challenge.
That's not nothing and should beapplauded.
But if this was just optics, then the deeper issues, the cost

(30:13):
of war, the misuse of Scripture,the silence around Gaza remain
untouched. So was this a turning point or
just another performance? I don't know.
Man, that's a great write up. That's a great write up.
And I don't know what the case was on that.
But anyway, that clip is again, something I think is very
interesting and very recent. OK, let me play some more now.

(30:35):
I'm going to play you a few things that are very recent.
And I'll start off with his appearance on Megyn Kelly's
podcast, which this was literally like maybe 10 days
ago. And this came after his recent
hosting of, you know, these Turning Point USA events, kind
of like Carolyn Stout talked about in that episode.
I mean, it's a huge organizationand these are huge events and

(30:58):
and it's really the number one young conservative organization
in the United States. Like by far not even comparable
to anything else. But basically at the Turning
Point USA event, he had that comedian Dave Smith, he had
Tucker Carlson and he had Megyn Kelly and those three kind of

(31:19):
spoke again, critical of Israel.I mean, Tucker Carlson and Dave
Smith were like scorched earth. They really were.
And I believe I've played several of those clips from the
Turning Point USA event. So Tucker and Dave Smith were
scorched earth. Megyn Kelly is kind of like
Charlie Kirk where she's she's sort of just asking questions.

(31:42):
And gosh, I can't remember if I played a Megyn Kelly clip the
other day in an episode. I think I did, but anyway, give
this a listen. So this is this is her and
Charlie Kirk sort of like post mortem after she appeared on the
stage at Turning Point USA. And this this is pretty

(32:03):
interesting. If, for example, if I I have
less ability sometimes online tocriticize the Israeli government
about backlash than actual Israelis do.
And that's really, really weird,isn't it, Megan?
That's not right. Wrong headed.
I'll tell you this for me. So I got some blowback after.

(32:23):
And at that point, and so this is what they don't understand.
You and I, Megan and Tucker is in the same category.
And they've tried to go after Tucker.
Yeah. Is that the and and the more you
attack our moral character, the actually the more we're going to
double down in the direction because screw you.
I don't do it that way. OK.

(32:44):
Right. Like when it tell me I'm wrong
on some part of the population, you can scold them into silence,
right? But if I have any deviation of a
purity test, any deviation whatsoever, such as hosting a
focus group, right Megan with a bunch of our students that went
viral, having Dave Smith or Tucker at my event, it is all of

(33:08):
a sudden, oh, Charlie is a he's he's no longer with us and all
that I said, wait a second. What do you mean?
What is with us mean exactly right.
I'm an American, OK, like I, I represent this country and I I
don't even understand that paradigm.
But Megan, I think you would agree with this.
I want to make sure we fast likereally zero in on this

(33:29):
personality types like you, myself and Tucker, the more that
you guys privately and publicly call our character into
question, which is not isolated,right Megan?
It would be one thing that was one text or two text.
It is dozens of texts. Then we start to say hold the
boat here And and to be fair, some of my really good Jewish

(33:52):
friends are like, that's not allof us.
It's all but these are leaders too though, right?
These are these are stakeholders, right.
And so look, I am, I'm, I'm afraid because again, I want
civilization to win. I want the West to win.
I don't want the Islamofascist Barbarians to storm the gates of
Jerusalem. I want the holy sites protected.
I believe in the Holy Land. I love that Jesus walked on

(34:15):
water there and rose from the dead and preached in the in the
mount of the attitudes like I I feel the connection to Israel
and I but at the same time simultaneously, when the hostile
reaction is that now Megan and Charlie are enemies.
Boy, I'll tell you like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're

(34:36):
going to, you're not going to. I would say lose, but you will
weaken and just basically deflate.
I mean, that is, that is a really interesting discussion.
And that was 10 days ago. That was, gosh, maybe, maybe a
little longer, maybe 15 days ago, but that was after his
Turning Point USA event this, this time.
And I'm trying to think, man, I should use deep shallow dive

(34:57):
search and go back and look, butI don't feel like it because
I've got a lot to, I've got a lot to share with you guys.
But I do remember, yeah, I thinkI remember even talking about
like after playing either a Tucker clip or a Megyn Kelly
clip or a Dave Smith clip from that Turning Point USA event.
I remember saying, I'm actually very surprised he even brought

(35:19):
them there and let them have thestage because again, you know,
on the outward surface over the past 18 months after that
Patrick Bet David interview, this clip I'm about to play for
you is the majority of the direction Charlie Kirk took on

(35:41):
social media. Let me set this up real quick.
This is another discussion on college campus with a kid that's
asking them about Palestine. OK, so he's saying, you know,
don't you think the Palestinian people deserve a homeland?
I don't think the place exists. What?
Because it doesn't. It's called Judea and Samaria.
It's not called Palestine. You don't believe that Palestine
have the right to exist? No, everyone has a right to

(36:04):
exist. Show me where it is.
I it's, it's, it's a, it's a nonexistent place.
Yeah, that's, I don't think we're, that's why we're on
different planets, right? What is the national identity of
Palestine? Educate Palestinians.
What what what is that Like, what do you mean?
What is that, What, what ethnicity?
Are they Arabs? OK, so all Arabs are

(36:25):
Palestinians? No, but they are Arabs.
What you're trying to say? I'm trying to say because at
what point does somebody become a Palestinian when he was born
in Palestine or with his parentsor Palestinians?
Again, This is why we're talkingpast each other.
What's your what's your trying to say?
I don't think the place exists. What?
Because it doesn't. It's called Judea and Samaria.

(36:45):
It's not called Palestine. You don't believe that Palestine
have the right to exist? No, everyone has a right to
exist. Show me where it is.
I it's it's a it's a non existent place.
Yeah, that's, I don't think we're, that's why we're on
different planets, right? All right, that clip basically,
I mean, man, he he was, he had ajust a nasty smirk on his face

(37:07):
that entire clip with that guy. And again, I think that
direction and sort of that version of Charlie Kirk is the
version that is causing everybody that is, I guess
rejoicing to an extent what happened to him yesterday, which
again, I think that's terrible. You can't rejoice on that.

(37:29):
You know, you can have your feelings, but I don't know, man.
Oh God, it's this is wild. OK, let let me play you a couple
more because I do want to, I do want to try to show both sides
of this. I really do.
So let me play you another clip here.
We can tell you what Israel's doing is So what Israel's doing
isn't bad. Killing children isn't bad, is
what you're saying. Hold on a second, but you have

(37:50):
to go instance by it or not. Are are they intentionally
killing kids? Is that what you're saying?
Yes. No, they are not.
That is completely why a good question.
Why are there dead kids? Because Hamas has no time out.
So you think Israel, let me get this straight.
Let's think how rational is Israel sits around?
Let me hold on. I want to make sure this is OK.
Of course I'm not OK with dead kids.
OK, ridiculous. I'm a pro-life person.

(38:11):
I've debated for two hours time out.
Stop interrupting me. Do you think Israel?
Do you think Israel sits around?They say we're going to How do
we kill more kids in Gaza today?I mean, so why are they killing
kids then? Exactly?
Let's think maybe it's because Hamas uses the kids as human
Shields on top of their militarybases.
Maybe that's why. Maybe because the people of
Hamas have no concern for the life of their own people.

(38:31):
Do you really believe that that's your?
I mean, that'd be really stupid,man, to actually assume that
that's the case. We we have documented cases of
Hamas using hospitals, schools and military installations
layered with civilians. All right, I mean, that's the
type of clip again, that just that that's what people hated
because that was just I mean, tome that that was him reading the

(38:56):
playbook and him reading kind ofwhat he was sort of, I don't
know. I don't know if he was forced to
say it or if he really felt it. I genuinely don't know where I
net out on that. And the reason I don't know
where I net out on that is now let's go to this clip, which

(39:17):
this is from like a month ago. Jewish communities have been
pushing the exact kind of hatredagainst whites that they claim
to want people to stop using against them.
Now I don't like generalizations, Not every
Jewish person believes that. But it is true.
The anti defamation league was part and parcel with Black Lives
Matter. It is true that some of the

(39:38):
largest financiers of left wing anti white causes have been
Jewish Americans. They went all in on woke.
And it wasn't just ADL, it was some of the top Jewish
organizations in the country that have done that.
In fact, we have seen this with the recent retreat of Jewish
donations that are no longer going to be administered to

(40:00):
colleges, right? Mark Rowan, Leon Kaufman, can we
get that full list? Very powerful.
The part of the. So that's totally true.
And by the way, Tucker Carlson reinforces this.
So I'm going to kind of, it was quite a day on the Internet.
Tucker Carlson was interviewing Candace Owens.
We have Candace Owens coming up next hour and Tucker Carlson
mentions that Jewish Americans. Have primarily been financing

(40:23):
cultural Marxist ideas. We said this by the way, last
week and people came after us. We actually said it in a
different way. We said I'm glad that Jewish
Americans are reconsidering their financing of cultural
Marxism and people misunderstoodit intentionally and slandered
us as being anti semites. But listen to this.
Tucker Carlson is completely correct by saying this, that the

(40:47):
philosophical foundation of antiwhiteness has been largely
financed by Jewish donors in thecountry.
Man, that was scorched earth. Like that was insane.
I mean, if you just heard that, or if you're like a pro
Palestinian supporter and you heard that, you'd be like,

(41:10):
that's my guy. I mean, seriously think about
that. Think about the the total
spectrum from the past couple clips versus that one.
That's why I like, honestly, I don't, I really don't know where
he truly netted out on this thing.

(41:33):
And I guess we'll never know, but man, that was interesting.
All right, let me play another one.
All right, this was a couple months, actually, No, I'm sorry.
This was 2024, before Trump won.Jane and Ghilane's father,
Robert Maxwell, who is obviouslya spy of the Israeli
intelligence agencies. But there was something else

(41:55):
going on here. Epstein was not some sort of
whiz kid hedge fund manager. Epstein was playing a part.
Epstein was a Larper. Epstein was cast for a specific
role, and he played it really well.
The sweatpants and the Harvard jacket, the kind of disheveled

(42:15):
hair, looking as if he was so smart and above the clouds that
he was doing advanced mathematicequations on the back of
napkins. But if you actually go into some
of the videos of people that metwith Epstein at the time, they
said he was awfully unimpressivewhen it came to finance and
markets and economics. And it's nothing new that if
you're in the Intel agencies, you want to try and get as much

(42:39):
blackmail on powerful people as possible.
Easy, not hard. And this is no longer just
speculation. First of all, the evidence that
shows that Epstein was a creation of either Mossad,
Israeli intelligence, American intelligence, Saudi
intelligence, or maybe he was just a hired gun.
Maybe he was just the guy that countries would go to and park a

(43:03):
couple 100 million bucks and say, hey, can you get one of the
members of the royal family witha 13 year old so we can get them
to do what we want to do. Members of Congress are actively
being blackmailed. The Epstein playbook is being
used on a daily basis. Jeffrey Epstein was not a
financier. He was not a hedge fund manager.

(43:24):
Jeffrey Epstein was a key playerin a multi decade blackmail
operation against the most powerful people on the planet.
I mean, again, gosh, honestly, he was incredibly intelligent
and articulate and could articulate it.
You know, I'll be honest, obviously you guys know recently

(43:46):
I've talked about just just how good I think this Nick Fuentes
kid is. I really I really did and do
think and will always think how good Charlie Kirk was.
I mean really, he was he was good, man.
He was good. I mean, that is that is a very,
a very complicated overall message that I think he very

(44:11):
succinctly delivered. Now again, remember that was
2024 and that was when these guys were all banging the
Epstein drum, him, Dan Bongino, Cash Patel, all these guys.
Now let's listen to a recent clip from roughly 5 months ago.
This is after Trump took office.And this was when everybody was

(44:34):
getting super, super pissed off about not getting the Epstein
files. And by the way, his, you know, a
big chunk of his turning point USA crowd was pissed off about
not getting the Epstein files, which was promised to us.
So this is this is post inauguration.
But as far as the Epstein thing goes, I have to address this.

(44:56):
Number one, the administration is working to get these files
out. Apparently there's a ton of
graphic child exploitive material that they have to black
out and all this. But there is no evidence
whatsoever that President Trump is mentioned in an incriminating
way in the Epstein files. Let me just make the most common
sense reasoned argument imaginable #1 if you actually

(45:18):
look at the Epstein files that were released back in February,
President Trump was mentioned ina non incriminating way.
And who else was mentioned? Like every single person that
lived in Palm Beach. The idea that President Trump
and what Elon Musk was insinuating is that President
Trump is, let's just say, a really bad person by saying this

(45:39):
is. And not only is there no
evidence, there's evidence to the contrary.
He kicked Epstein out of his club at Mar a Lago.
He actively went to war against Epstein for being very, very
creepy. But let's just kind of put on
our thinking cap for a second here.
Let's just use our reason, a gift given to us by God
Almighty. You're trying to tell me that

(45:59):
the Democrats who controlled theentire federal government were
sitting on Donald Trump being inthe Epstein files and they
decided dispatch Fanny Willis and Alvin Bragg and Jack Smith
to put him in jail for 700 years.
They decided to dispatch LetitiaJames, the take away his

(46:20):
business empire. All the while they were sitting
on a smoking gun of Donald Trumpbeing in the Epstein files.
Why wouldn't they have just moved on that they impeached him
twice? So here's Joe Biden and he has
Merrick Garland and you have Lisa Monaco and you have this
entire flotilla of anti Trump Democrat activists.

(46:44):
And all they have to do is not go raid Mar a Lago, not go look
at documents, not go do the factthat Trump watched OAN and said
go find votes, not the fact thatDonald Trump apparently
something that Alvin Bragg and Stormy Daniels.
No, no, instead all they'd have to do is just open up the files
and say, oh, Donald Trump's on The Client List.

(47:06):
Boom. The FBI was controlled by
Democrats and the DOJ. The reason they didn't do that
is because it doesn't exist. The Russia hoax would have been
completely unnecessary if DonaldTrump was on the Epstein client
list. It's time for us to use some
common sense and some reason forcooler heads to prevail.

(47:28):
The Epstein files, I hope are soon released and I believe they
will be released. I know cash is working on them,
but Gino's working on them. Bondy's working on them.
There's a lot of redactions needto happen of individuals names
and victims names, a lot of legal technicalities.
But not for a minute should any of us entertain this salvo from
Elon Musk, who I have great respect for.

(47:48):
And then I'm very thankful for that.
Donald Trump was somehow on the Epstein client list.
All right, I let that whole thing play because honestly,
like, man, it's interesting to to revisit all of those
different things. OK, so that was after a few
months ago. Remember when all the sudden
Elon and Trump broke up and theygot visceral against each other

(48:10):
for a few days, which by the way, I don't, I still don't know
where I net out on that. That could be that could be
theater, that could be by design.
Anyway, I digress. I digress.
But all right, again, I mean, that was all very interesting.
And it actually, I will say it also kind of played into that
Ian Carroll clip I played a few days ago where it said, you

(48:33):
know, Trump is involved with Epstein not as a blackmail E,
but potentially as a blackmailer, meaning like he was
kind of in on it in terms of doing what Epstein did.
So anyway, anyway, God, this stuff is just wild, man.

(48:55):
Man, what the hell? What the hell?
What the hell? I forget what that's from.
There's a funny, funny clip. I'll have to find that.
OK, last thing on this Epstein thing, this is this is more
Tucker Carlson than Charlie Kirk, but this was one of the
clips from Tucker Carlson on Charlie Kirk's recent Turning

(49:19):
Point USA event, which like I said, was maybe less than a
month ago. And this is one that you know,
again, people were well, myself for sure.
I was surprised he even brought Tucker Carlson to this because
again, at this time, actually atthe time of Turning Point

(49:39):
probably or the Turning Point event recently, Charlie Kirk was
probably 95% pro Israel stuff. Maybe there was 5% questions.
But then a lot of those other clips I played you before,
especially the stuff with Megyn Kelly, maybe took it from 5%

(49:59):
questions to 20% questions afterthis Turning Point USA event
because I think he was losing his base.
So it's like the fine dance of, hey, yes, I want to keep my
donors, but maybe he was just telling his donors, hey, we're
losing the base. Like we're losing all these
young Christians. Because similar to what Jeremy

(50:23):
Slate and Jay Slate USA said in our episode, they were probably
like, dude, stop lying to us. Like we're watching this with
our own eyes. Stop telling us we're not seeing
what we're seeing. So listen to this clip.
So the real scandal here is who he was working for and where the
money came from. That's the actual scandal.

(50:44):
And no one will say anything about it because the answer is
it was it American intelligence?Was it Saudi intelligence?
Was it British intelligence? Was it Israeli intelligence?
OK, again, this is where you know, is Charlie Kirk pulling
the Tucker Carlson. This is pretty funny.
Remember how I used to tell you Tucker Carlson would bring on
his guests and let them say the quiet part out loud?

(51:05):
So listen to this. Here's Charlie Kirk literally
pulling a Tucker Carlson on Tucker Carlson.
Is it Was it American intelligence?
Was it Saudi intelligence? Was it British intelligence?
Was it Israeli intelligence? So Charlie says, was it American
intelligence? Was it Saudi intelligence?
Was it British intelligence? But he doesn't say Israeli
intelligence, and he lets Tuckersay it.

(51:25):
Is it, was it American intelligence?
No. Was it Saudi intelligence?
Was it British intelligence? Was Israeli intelligence?
And everyone's embarrassed to say that because you're like,
you're not allowed to say that or something because you're a
hater. But you're not a hater at all.
You can think Israel's a great country that deserves our
support, as I do. My best memories are in Israel.
Yeah, it's great. I've taken my family vacation

(51:45):
there. But it's still a foreign
country. And it's a fair question to ask.
Were you running a blackmail scheme in our country?
And I think the answer is yes. So they were asked and they're
like, we're not going to tell you.
And it's like, so why are we sending you all this money every
year? If you won't answer a simple
question? If you're actually running a
criminal enterprise in our country, which seems like they
were, then you should answer thequestion.

(52:06):
And no American citizen should be embarrassed to ask that.
It doesn't make you a hater or awacko.
If the former Israeli Prime Minister is living in his house,
like what was that? And if his girlfriend and Co
conspirator is the daughter of aMossad agent, which she was, why
is it crazy to ask that question?
It's not crazy actually. It's very obvious.
And no one should be embarrassedto ask that.
No one should be made to feel like a hater for asking that.

(52:27):
Asking a question but a foreign country does not make you a
bigot at all. And in fact, the effect of not
asking that question, the rest of us are all kind of
embarrassed and like, oh, can you really say that?
What? That right there causes hatred
and creepiness, and everyone feels like it has to be
conducted in secret. When you're not allowed to be
straightforward about something,you attend the conversation and

(52:49):
the thoughts tend to become dizzy.
All right, so again, the majority of that clip was
obviously Tucker Carlson, but again, you know, Charlie Cook
took Charlie Kirk took a lot of heat for even letting Tucker
Carlson take the stage. You know, same thing with Dave
Smith. I'll try to I don't have any
clips of his handy from the event, but maybe I'll try to
play some of those later. All right, let me see.

(53:11):
We're at 53 minutes. Let me see if there's anything
else. You know what, I do want to play
this clip because honestly, thisclip probably epitomizes or
summarizes where where I think he really stood.
Let's see, how do I want to put this?

(53:32):
I honestly think Charlie Kirk, if I had to describe them, is
probably more of a white nationalist than anyone.
Like I think he was all about white Christians.
Gosh, you know that kid Nick Fuentes takes a lot of shit for
being like that white nationalist.

(53:53):
But I honestly think Charlie andthat entire faction falls more
into that category. And when I say white
nationalist, I I mean they even do not like the way Jewish and
Muslim people might view Christianity or Christians.

(54:15):
Although again, I think I've pointed out so many times, I
think the the divide between Christians and Muslims is
manufactured, man. By the way, if you guys know any
practicing Muslim, any practicing Muslim whatsoever, or
actually anybody that is remotely Muslim, not me, anybody

(54:38):
that's remotely Muslim, ask themwhat their views are on Jesus.
Ask them what their views are onMother Mary.
Ask them what their views are onChristianity.
And if you don't feel like doingit, I'll give you the answer.
They are all going to say we love Jesus, we think he's the
Messiah. They're all going to say we love

(54:58):
Mother Mary. We believe Jesus is born from a
virgin birth from the Mother Mary.
I mean, I have a hard time with that.
But you to ask a Muslim if they believe that they absolutely do.
They will all say they love Christians.
OK, So that's why I'm saying, man, this is all this
manufactured divide going back to what I talked about at the

(55:22):
beginning of the episode, which is the big divide in the United
States in terms of a civil war between Democrats slash
liberals. Thank you, Greg Stoker,
Republicans slash conservatives.OK, That's the one divide.
And then the other divide is religion.
And this clip from Charlie Kirk,this is probably the clip of his

(55:45):
that I dislike the most out of anything I've ever heard of from
him over the past five years. And this was recently, this was
maybe, you know, a few weeks ago.
And it really got me to realize that he is absolutely or was
absolutely, you know, part of creating both of those divides,

(56:10):
OK, both of those divides, Democrat slash liberal versus
Republican slash conservatives and the religious divide,
Christians versus Muslims. Give this a listen.
Because in this clip he literally brings those two
worlds and divisions together totry and create one gigantic

(56:34):
division. The spiritual battle is coming
to the West and the enemies are woke.
ISM or Marxism combining with Islamism to go after what we
call the American way of life? Let me play that again because
again, he really combined the two.
And this is where honestly, I just, I, if I ever like remotely

(56:56):
felt anger, it was because of what he says here because now
it's just a stretch. Now he's basically saying let's
go after the liberals and the Muslims and let's say the let's
make the the narrative that liberals are going to use Islam
to ruin America. So he's literally trying to kill

(57:18):
two birds with one stone. The spiritual battle is coming
to the West and the enemies are woke ISM or Marxism combining
with Islamism to go after what we call the American way of
life. And the American way of life is
very simple. I want to be able to get
married, buy a home, have kids, allow them to ride their bike
till the sun goes down, send them to a good school, have a

(57:41):
low crime neighborhood, not to have my kid be taught the
lesbian, gay, transgender garbage in their school while
also while also not having them have to hear the Muslim call to
prayer five times a day. That's important.

(58:02):
We want the American way of life, which is, by the way,
Christendom, Christians, our sacrifice, our toil, our vision,
the outgrowth of the Scriptures gave us Western civilization.
And this is where I think is a great rallying cry.
Doesn't matter if you're Hispanic, doesn't matter if
you're Asian, doesn't matter if you're black or white,

(58:22):
everybody. If you are Christian and Jesus
Christ is your Lord and Savior. These two threats are combining
forces to come after us, and it's time that the Church stands
and rises up against it. Wow.
All right. I mean, that is probably, I hate
to say it, but man, that is the most, that is the most divisive

(58:46):
narrative creation he ever did. Because like I said, to bring
this thing full circle, and I'm going to kind of end on that,
man, he really combined these two gigantic divisions that are
taking place. And so the question becomes, who
benefits from both of these divisions getting ripped open

(59:12):
even further? All right, I'm going to let you
think on that. And again, I do offer my deepest
condolences to his family, his wife, his young children.
I think, I think especially those children, you know, did
not deserve to lose their father.
And I will leave you with Charlie's own words.

(59:36):
I mean, this is a little bit eerie, but this is also from a
man. The guy was everywhere.
He really was everywhere. And again, I do give him credit
for opening discussions, creating discussions, You know,
was he divisive? Absolutely.
But again, you know, the question becomes, do we shut

(59:59):
people down for their opinions? You know if.
If, if I'm not advocating for shutting people down for their
opinions on things that I agree with, I can't advocate for
shutting people down for their opinions on things I don't agree
with or silencing them for things I don't agree with.
And like I said, I think at the end of the day with all of this,

(01:00:21):
I don't think Charlie Kirk deserved to die from all of his
positions. He deserved to lose debates and
potentially get humiliated in debates, but he didn't deserve
that. So now we'll see man, let's see,
let's see what happens. But remember, 1 + 1 does not

(01:00:44):
equal 2 anymore. So if they come out and say this
was like a a trans shooter that was Muslim, pro Palestinian,
yeah, that's that's not, that's that, that's 1 + 1 = 2.
And we are no longer in that world.

(01:01:07):
All right, give this last thing a listen.
Call a spade, a spade, Definitely call your parents,
your kids, loved ones. Call a friend today.
Seriously, just call somebody you haven't talked to in a
while. You know what?
Do that call somebody you haven't talked to in a while.
I'm going to do the same. And and that's it, man, That's
it. All right, I hope you enjoyed

(01:01:28):
it. How do you want to be
remembered? If I die.
Everything just goes away. How would you?
If you could be associated with one thing, how would you want to
be remembered? I want to be, I want to be
remembered for, for courage, formy faith that that would be the
most important thing. Most important thing is my faith
in my life. Charlie Kirk, thank you so much.
That was a great way to end it. This episode was brought to you

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EP#370 | DSD | Charlie Kirk: Who Benefits, Who Reacts, and What Now?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP#370 | DSD | Charlie Kirk: Who Benefits, Who Reacts, and What Now?