Episode 99: Dragon Ball Daima we stan Majin Kuu in this household.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello across space-time and possibly in the
Demon Realm.
I'm Richard, the star of DeepSpace and Dragons.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I am Carl, the Cosmos that we explore so deeply
.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
That's actually pretty good.
So before we get too deep intotoday's episode, what's new in
the Carlverse, Unless it's afully unrelated movie review of
Scream 3, then no.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well see, unfortunately.
Well, actually, no.
Okay.
So my boss, he decided he needsnew desk furniture.
So my boss.
He decided he needs new deskfurniture.
Yeah well, so I mean that's youwould think that's not really
my new office furniture, not newdesk furniture.
He wanted a new desk.
He had a really old desk.
He'd had it for years and so welike lug it out of the office

(01:01):
and we load it up onto his truckand he takes it to the thrift
store.
And they didn't want it.
So he had to bring it out ofthe office and we load it up
onto his truck and he takes itto the thrift store, and they
didn't want it.
So we had to bring it back tothe store.
And then I had to, like he man,flip it out of the truck so it
would like smash into pieces.
And one of the other workerscame in with a crowbar and just
going all office space on thisold desk so we could get into
small enough chunks to throw ina garbage can.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
So back when I worked at I'm just going to name drop
the keg, they're not rehiring meanytime soon we had to destroy
an old wooden door.
So we ended up going to thehardware store that was in the
same block and buying a saw anda machete.
Oh, so we were able to likeHardcore.
Yeah, we macheted the store todeath and then had to hand in
our receipt to be reimbursed forthe machete we bought to

(01:43):
machete the store in half.
It was a fantastic use ofresources for your trained cook.
So I weirdly approve of thisuncharacteristically.
I'm like you gotta smash somefurniture.
You gotta smash some furniture.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
But so then for like a week he didn't have a desk,
and so whenever I had to do anyactual office work because as a
manager I sometimes have to dothat kind of stuff- I had to sit
on the floor to use the.
No, I mean mostly I used thecomputer to work on immigration
stuff, because I mean now Canadahas drastically reduced the

(02:22):
number of people they want toimmigrate, but there's lots of
people who need jobs fromforeign countries.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
I mean going into for those listening right now, just
to date this for futurearchaeologists.
We're sitting in March of 2025.
I don't really feel like Inormally should date it because
we're timeless artwork anddating.
It may lose some value of theepisode, but just for context,

(02:49):
just Google Canada, UnitedStates immigration, March 2025,
and see what you see.
That's it, Because in like fiveyears you'll be like oh, this
was a wild, wild week.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
But yeah.
So it's like for a week I hadto sit on the floor to use the
computer and then finally todaythe furniture company came in
and they built this desk in hisoffice Just buying a desk and I
spent most of my day puttingeverything back together to get
it back to being a functioningoffice again.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, as long as it wasn't.
Actually, I was about to getpolitical again.
No, I'm just good at this.
No, this is a Canadian podcast.
Buy Canadian goods if you can.
Whoever you are listening, as Ijust lost all of my subscribers
.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
What's new with you there, Richard?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
So last week was reading week, which normally I'm
like I'm going to write anentire book or do something
heroic, but like after I got myacceptance into grad school, I'm
like, or I can play MonsterSanctuary, lie on the couch,
watch my Adventures of Supermanand just not burn myself out for
a week.
So I did that and I'm prettyhappy with myself.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
That does sound pretty delightful.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah.
So I pretty much just chilledfor a week, like I did get some
work on my novel done when Ikind of had to like take apart
all the chapters and restructurethem and move some of the
things around for it to make abetter story arc, and it's one
of those moments where you'relike I'm going to revise my book
.
Did you write any words or doany edits?
No, but I read my entire bookand basically it turned into a

(04:31):
bunch of posts and it was ascatter around conspiracy cork
board.
That counts as work.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
With little strings, two different events and
everything Kind of.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's a digital version of that.
I think I showed you the mirrorboards before.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh, I think you have.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, basically that it was a series of post-it notes
.
I regret nothing.
And then I guess another newthing with me is like I've
gotten into making slow cookertacos, where I dice up all my
ingredients and throw them inthe slow cooker with taco spice,
so I can then have tacoswaiting for me.
Oh, and my coffee maker brokeand I wrote a sad poem for it

(05:12):
that I sent to some contacts,because I don't know if I've
ever been more heartbroken thanmy coffee maker breaking Seven
years, two to three pots ofcoffee a day.
This machine, it made sense.
It died of old age, it died ofoverwork.
But I was also 20 bucks sevenyears ago and a new one cost me

(05:32):
20 bucks.
With my current budget beingable to just buy a new coffee,
yeah, 20 bucks, that's an amountof money.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I actually have, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
See like there's lots of fancy coffee machines, but
like really the one that haslike two buttons that are like
brew coffee and brew coffeelater, and maybe a blinky clock.
That's it, I don't need nofancy-ass espresso bar.
Yet you can make me eat mywords on episode 200, where I'm
gloating about my fancy newespresso machine, because, given

(06:06):
the means, and opportunity andspace.
Me having a needlesslyelaborate coffee setup isn't
inevitability, but that'll beafter my master's program is
done, which I think I've decided, which one I Actually.
You know what would be amazing,like legitimately, if I got a
comms job at at like Nescafe andjust got like one of those sick

(06:29):
like because one time when Ihad my ramen packet gaming
company going for a while whenwe were experimenting making
TTRPG stuff, I actually got likea message from Nescafe being
like does your office need oneof our $2,000 coffee machines?
I'm like I appreciate that Ilook like a big enough deal.
You try and sell me this.
Like I felt special to be like.

(06:53):
I also got a free StellaVieratos engraved mug a while
back because they're like yourcompany should get these mugs
for Christmas.
Would you like a free sample ofone?
I'm like sure should get thesemugs for Christmas, would you?
like a free sample of one.
I'm like sure I'm not going tosay no to free swag.
And also for the record, now,when I do successfully have a

(07:16):
publishing house someday, Iprobably will buy their mugs,
because I'll be like.
I remember that time they gaveme a free mug.
That was cool.
Everyone loves a good engravedmug, especially if you're sassy
with it, like if you got likeCarl.
But there's like a C and it wasslashed out and then a K was
there.
You'd enjoy that mug.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I would enjoy that mug and I've definitely seen
that so many times, where peopleput the C and then they just
have to add the extra line andit looks like a disfigured K.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And I guess the last not really new with me, more
like thing I haven't told youabout yet.
So they're putting out a newGundam miniatures game where
they make mini Gunpla toassemble and play on a grid game
.
Okay, so they make like oneinch.
They're not SDs, they're likeone inch tall Gundams and ships.
They battle on a grid to hackso you assemble your Gunpla,
paint them and then playWarhammer with them on this grid

(08:13):
, price pending.
That's really cool and you knowit.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, that does sound pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Because I like building Gunpla but I don't
quite have the energy to doanything other than a SD one,
just due to, like energyconstraints and time constraints
.
But it's like, oh, it's aboutthat complicated, like they're
not poseable because likethey're just kind of in action
poses to like work as miniatures.
But they are like the littlerunner things you assemble like
that's awesome also.

(08:44):
It lets them like put therunners it lets them put the
runners in booster packs if theywant, which is really funny to
me.
I don't know if they're goingto distribute it that way, but I
do think it'd be funny to buybooster packs of model kits.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Wait, these are like actual gunplas, not like digital
.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, it's a physical gunpla that makes a one-inch
tall model kit you build to playWarhammer with them.
Huh, that's sick and you knowit.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
That does sound sick.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
They said the army size is closer to like 5, or
it's like 5 v 5 at like most,because it's like, yeah, no,
most Gundam fights despite themlike showing a lot of enemies
offscreen.
Really aren't that many dudesthat are fighting and I'm like I
can't afford a Warhammer armynor do I have the motivation to
but five Gundams price pending.
Yeah, that seems like a greatgrad gift for myself, along with

(09:39):
paying back loans, oh.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I guess the last thing with me is.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
It was one of my friends' birthdays over the
weekend, so we had like aall-you-can-eat sushi video game
party.
We go for all-you-can-eat sushi.
One of my friends brought a VRheadset that we were streaming
to a TV to watch people beatsabers and get attacked by
monsters and things.
And then we played Mario Kartand Mario Party.
We only played the co-op MarioParty like the rafting minigame,

(10:08):
and then Mario Kart I justabsolutely dominated, which is
out of character for me.
I just remember Carl's advice offind the mathematically
shortest path.
Pick average standard kartshortest path.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Pick average standard cart.
Yeah, and see.
The thing about Mario Kart isthat, unlike real life, you
don't actually have to worryabout traction and thus you can
just take the physicallyshortest path, which is the
inside of the curve.
It's like the ideal line isactually just the ideal line.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
But more importantly, importantly, the dirty look I
got from cassie when I said well, according to carl mario kart
expert, you drive the shortestpath.
It's like I like finish the lap, pick up a bowl of chips, eat
one and then give thisexplanation about how to play
mario kart to a person who hasabsolutely beaten me many times

(11:04):
at.
Mario kart was just such amoment that's pretty funny.
Well, it's funny like I wastalking to one of my friends
who'll be redacted for thispodcast, being like I'm worried
that you and cassie hold yourpunches when you played board
games with me.
I'm like you do not understandwho I am as a person.
There's no version of realitywhere I let someone win a board

(11:25):
game, if I can help it, andCassie is worse.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Oh yeah, like.
Could you imagine a situationwhere I let you win a game
willingly?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Oh no, that just doesn't happen.
I mean, I win, but that doesn'tnot because you tried to let me
win.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
No, instead, like I'll be like, hmm, I don't know,
it's three games in a row.
I should probably let Kara win.
He might just not play thisanymore.
Then I have a flashback beingpunched in the face in a bouncy
castle and then suddenly it'sall gone.
Like I aspire to be Seto Kaibaand it's not a set.
Seto Kaiba climbs on the sideof a cliff and says you're a
tackle off the off the cliff.
You better be prepared to killme.

(12:03):
And that is the correct gamingattitude.
I'd say like I wasn't playing aone-player monster platformer,
just dense vibing with myselfthis week because it's like I'm
so hardcore and play suchnon-hardcore games and oh one
last new with me, even thoughit's not really about me.

(12:24):
Did you watch and play suchnon-hardcore games?
Hmm and oh, one last new withme, even though it's not really
about me.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Did you watch the Pokemon Direct?
Yet I didn't watch the PokemonDirect, but I did watch the
Pokemon AZ trailer, the LegendsAZ and the Pokemon Champions
trailer, which didn't give anydetails about what Pokemon
champions actually was.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
I assume they just bought Pokemon showdown Cause
it'd be funny.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
That would be pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And I just want to be like not really new with me,
but people have such strongopinions on total doll check,
read it and Tepeg.
One or two things happen.
People either hate that Tepeg'sthere or they spite-pick Tepig
because people hate that Tepig'sthere.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Why is Tepig there?

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Because Cyndaquil got cancelled.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
But what'd Cyndaquil do?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Apparently, typhlosion learned lowly hiking
women into the mountains in aleak about a cancelled Pokedex
entry.
Oh, okay, okay, just to tellthat anecdote that when they had
that Massapoco leak, that'slike.
It's like, yeah, no,typhlosion's a predator and got

(13:39):
cancelled and then he's not inthe next game.
It's just really funny, likehe's not actually in it because
he was one of the starters inArceus.
But it's so much funnier tothink he got canceled because
his internet history got leakedand cancel culture got to him.
It's just funnier.
Slash.
Partly true, but that's enoughof the preamble, I think so.

(13:59):
Dragon Ball Daima.
I'm going to start off with ablanket statement Dragon Ball
Daima is probably the third orsecond best Dragon Ball series.
Huh, unless we count Sand Land,which drops into place my
actual favorite Dragon Ballseries, specifically the first

(14:20):
12 episodes of Sand Land.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Oh okay, Is Sand Land still being released?
Nah, they released it.
Two seasons, 12 episodesthatland.
Oh okay, Is Sandland stillbeing released.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
No, they released it two seasons, 12 episodes.
That was the straight-up mangaand then 12 episodes.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
that was like a sequel.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Ah, okay, and though kind of like a sequel.
One wasn't as good, it wasn'tbad, but it wasn't as good.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Right, right which is they're like by not being worse
they kind of get bonus pointshonestly, because it wasn't
going to be better, Okay, well,so then, what are the two Dragon
Ball series that rank aboveDaima?

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Dragon Ball.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
And Dragon Ball, so in my own internal naming I've
been calling it like Z1 and Z2.
I kind of wish the Boo saga wasjust called Dragon Ball Kai,
even though that's not what thatmeans, because they're such
separate shows.
So I have Dragon Ball and aDragon Ball Z up until the end
of the Cell games above it yeah,yeah, okay, because I think

(15:23):
we've mentioned this a coupletimes on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
But the end of the Cell Saga was a really nice
ending to the series in general,because he handed the torch on
to the next generation to be theprotector of Earth, and then
they just kind of undid that forthe Boo Saga and the Boo Saga
also definitely suffers fromanime pacing more than it like.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
If you read the Boou saga, you don't have 20 episodes
.
Buu himself they like to saythat One Piece has the longest
fight scene in anime, but that'sbecause you're not counting Buu
and his transformations as onefight, which would literally
just be like 100 episodes of TV.
Was just fighting Buu, if notmore?
Well, think about it.
All they did was just fightingBoo, if not more.

(16:05):
Well, think about it All theydid was fight Boo.
That was all that Boo saga wasafter Bobbidi got decapiturated.
It was basically.
Segunagate OG.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
So, king Dabura, though he had spit that could
turn people to stone right.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, just double-checking.
But so basically what you'resaying is that you think that
original Dragon Ball, which alsomy favorite, and then Dragon
Ball Z up to the end of the CellSaga, you would rate those
higher than Daima, but you wouldrate Daima higher than.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Then the Boo Saga it's based on ironically,
because next on my list would bethe Boo Saga, then it would be
Super then it would be.
I guess I have to put GT on thelist, sure.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, okay, but so like why do you dislike GT so
much?

Speaker 1 (17:10):
So when's the last time you went through GT?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Oh, not recently, that's true.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
So GT isn't actually as long as you think it is.
It's like 50 episodes orsomething.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, there's only like two seasons.
They go into space, they comeback, they meet, they deal with
Baby and then then the DragonBalls break and release the evil
dragons.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
So the main problem I have with GT is it forgot that
it had characters.
So the only character who doesanything in GT is Kid Goku.
Objectively the worst characterwho does anything in gt is kid
goku okay objectively the worstcharacter to have do anything,
because he's the only one whogot nerfed.
So the baby saga gt is actuallyreally interesting if I broke

(17:55):
all like my zbz ratings intosagas, baby saga would like go
weirdly high on the list because, ah, evil alien that's an enemy
of the saiyans going around andbody jacking his way up to
create baby Vegeta.
Like, yeah sure, there's nooriginal ideas in this, they're
just setting up Goku versusVegeta.
But that was an interestingsetup and payoff it also gave a
narrative reason for Goku to bethe main character of that arc,

(18:19):
because no one else was there soSuper.
Saiyan 4 is a literal ass pull.
They use tweezers to pull histail out.
They literally pull it out ofhis ass, which is kind of funny
when you think about it.
But the most egregious thing gtdoes other than a brutal
character assassination of goku,is they put in trunks and make
him a boring straight man.
Instead of either kid trunks,who's a sassy little bastard, or

(18:42):
future trunks, who is atraumatized orichalord, he goes
super saiyan to lift some rocksand that's his extent of impact
on the show and Pan does nothing.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
No, no, no, Pan does stuff.
Mostly get captured so thatGoku can rescue her.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Do we have a non-sexist reason for why the
kid that was shown to bestronger than Uub during the
Kids Martial Arts Tournamentthat literally the strongest
child of the series just becamea damsel in distress every week,
including being turned into aliteral doll by a villain and
then fed to a munch control?
But that's not why I hate GT.

(19:22):
Why I hate GT is actuallydistilled down to a line in the
Shadow Dragon arc.
Okay.
The character says and it wasFire Shenron Goku, we need a
fight.
And then he goes I don't wantto fight you, huh.
So Goku fights all seven of theShadow Dragons.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
And doesn't want to fight anybody.
Everyone is alive andfunctional in the show and they
send kid goku to go fight eachdragon one at a time, power
ranger style.
Why would you not use any ofyour cast?
Why didn't you have like vegetgo fight one and Uub go fight

(20:05):
one, for example?
So like they just forgot.
And also, I hate GT because itdoesn't work as a standalone
show.
It's like you're expected tohave watched all of Dragon Ball
Z but they're not willing to useanything from Dragon Ball Z.
It's weird.
It's like we're gonna stealAndroid Super 17 for some reason

(20:28):
, but we're then only going tohave Goku matter in this plot
arc.
So it's like, yeah, we're goingto have Android 18 and 17 have
this dramatic heart-to-heartCharacters we did not use in
this show.
We're going to build up Oob atthe end of Z and not use him in
this show.
That's my problem with GT.

(20:49):
They don't use anybody.
That they wrote, although,ironically, gt's ending is
actually really good, but that'sa story for another day.
The best parts of Dragon Ball Zare when Goku's not there
that's the general rule.
And GT is when Goku's not there, as a general rule, and GT is
just Goku's there the whole time, but it's the worst version of

(21:10):
Goku okay, so you think that thecharacterization of Kid Goku
that they put into Daimyo isbetter than GT?
absolutely.
First off, he was fun and,second off, other characters
mattered.
So it's like, if you're goingto make Goku an idiot, which is
a fair writing choice.

(21:30):
Although I think we agree thatthey made Goku a character of
himself over the course of Super, the characters he's paired
with needed to be in the journeybecause Goku's incompetent.
So Gloria was actually usefulthe entire show because, like he
knew the location, he booked ahotel, he crashed the planes, he

(21:53):
stole the dragon balls, he didthe backstabby backstab, he
fired the pew pew gun he had areason to be there.
He made quips to play off Goku.
No one played off Goku in GT sothey didn't actually Like.
Trunks made a bad straight manfor the straight man comedy duo,
glorio made a great straightman for the duo and Supreme Kai

(22:16):
honestly needed more screen timeand I was fine with that.
So for the first half of Daima,goku's running in all cylinders
because Goku's doingobjectively funny shit Goku and
Glorio just ignoring theMinotaur to fight to the death
was objectively funny yeah okay.

(22:36):
But like in GT, they're justlike Goku trunks shoot the
Minotaur and that'd be it.
They forgot to put a bit there.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, okay, Because I mean, like you said, I haven't
watched GT recently.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Correct, correct choice.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Don't do it Well, I mean when I was younger and it
was on like Teletoon or YTVEither, or Also, why did you?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
skip the first 20 episodes.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
They sure did.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Which was a choice and arguably the correct one.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
But so I enjoyed GT when I was younger.
Perhaps my tastes wereunrefined at the time, but so
when I was watching Daima I waslike it, just it felt recycled.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
So it is a very beautiful show, but it
definitely taught it toed theline between homage and
recycling.
It's like it's toed the linebetween homage and recycling.
So like to like, kind of goover Daima a bit.
The first arc of let's enterthe demon world have some demon
world shenanigans completelyfuck with the power scaling and
have Goku eat weird burgersPretty good.

(23:57):
Tv.
I will say I got pissed that theplane kept falling.
The plane just kept exploding.
I don't even know if that was abit or not.
When they get to the secondDemon World.
And now we have Vegeta andPiccolo and Bulma.
Bulma had no reason to be inthe show because they made a
female Bulma specifically forsome reason.
I don't know why.
It was a weird writing choiceto introduce a character who was

(24:19):
Demon Bulma and then introduceregular Bulma and do nothing
with either of them.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, yeah, so like coming around to Vegeta and
Bulma um.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is some of their best character development in
the franchise.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, okay, so I mean their character development
aside, I just found it very aninteresting choice where it's
like, um, Bulma, Vegeta andPiccolo stay behind because
Bulma is fixing the ship, andthen, uh, she fixes the ship.
She fixes the ship, the shipdoesn't work.

(24:57):
They're like, oh no, we can'tget this mineral on Earth.
And then immediately they starta second episode or the start
of the next episode.
They just show up with a shipand they're like, oh no, we need
pins to activate warp.
And then they're just like,yeah, I'll just call my pin code
guy that just gives out pinsfor free.
And it's like there was a lotof times where they said there

(25:21):
was an obstacle, then it justwasn't.
So I think part of its problemis it's very first draft, where
they said there was an obstacle,then it just wasn't.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
So I think part of its problem is it's very first
draft Like it feels like thisdidn't go through an editor and
I think people forget thatToriyama had a fantastic editor
as well on Dragon Ball, andthat's who they need to get on
some of these shows.
So dig him up from the grave aswell and have them both working
on it, because it's like that isa very toriyama thing to do.

(25:46):
Is we need to fix the plane?
Oh, here's another plane, andtypically he's because he was
part of a team and they'd belike, no, what do you know?
So here's what's interestingabout the vegeta bulma thing.
I'm going to go into aninternet debate and I'm curious
your thoughts on it the internetis furious that vegeta.
half the internet is furiousthat vegeta simps for his wife.
I believe you can't simp foryour wife, You're just a wife

(26:10):
guy and that's a good charactertrait.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, I didn't realize that that was actually a
debate.
I thought that was a goodcharacterization of him.
It was kind of a weird bitwhere they're like you better
come down here and stop fightingor else I'm never going to take
a bath with you again.
That is my favorite but it wasfunny so it was funny.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
That bit's funny for three reasons you didn't think
of okay so first it stops themomentum from to fly down
instantly and that was just likesuch a unexpected camera cut
that I'm like that was funny.
But the thing you didn't realizethat's really funny is goku has
a confused face because goku'staken baths with pomo before and
they weren't that exciting.
So that's the second joke whereI really lasted.

(26:58):
Like goku's like uh, uh, I'mlike, yeah, he knows, it's not
that interesting.
You just get soap in your eye.
Why would Goku care?
And then you look at likeeveryone else in their face just
like I can't believe this.
But then you think about likewhat Vegeta's plot arc as he
actually was, where he went fromblowing up from his family to
like actually listening to hiswife.
I'm like I'm so happy Bulma'sthere.

(27:18):
They just that Pansy characterbecame pointless.
But Bulma and Vegeta don't everactually get screen time
together.
That's true.
I enjoy watching them interactSome of the best parts of Super
Wars.
I'm just living their lives,Because Vegeta living his life
is objectively hilarious.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Like when he takes Trunks to the amusement park.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
So I was completely on board with that bit because
that bit was legitimately funny.
But also Team Bulma gets awaywith three things.
Bulma and Vegeta's banter wasfun, and then Hibis is just the
man, the myth, the legend, andDragon Ball Diablo is worth it

(28:05):
entirely for adding Hibis to thecanon.
There's a bit where Hibis islike just straight up hitting on
Bulma and then she's like I'mmarried and he's like that's
fine and that killed me thatline killed me.
And then, hibis, I'm gonna havesome mud wine.
What's mud wine?
It's mud wine, it sucks.

(28:25):
Hey, I want your magic beltcool, I want your hat.
I'm not gonna fall for yourseduction nonsense.
I want your hat.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
A hive is the man, the myth, the legend okay, um,
but so what are your thoughts onDemon King Goma?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
So Goma's interesting , but not so Goma.
When he was just peel-offing itup, I was fine with Goma
watching Dragon Ball Eclipse andbeing like, oh no, we gotta
scheme and do things.
And then when he turned intoCosplay Jiren, I was a little
less on board.
Like I enjoyed his magic eyethrowing rocks at people and

(29:07):
things.
Like I kind of enjoyed like thetheatrics of it.
I don't know, I think Iactually liked Goma.
I just would have liked himmore if he was more wizard and
less jacked guy.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, I mean it was kind of weird because until the
moment that he got the third eye, he like everyone was saying
don't underestimate him, butlike he didn't appear to be a
threat in any way.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
And the thing is, I think, like for a Dragon Ball
villain, like I said, you canhave a doofy Dragon Ball villain
, like even Frieza was doofytill he wasn't.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
But like I think what Goma was missing is a an editor
to look over the script andclean up some of the loose ends,
like when they had theoff-brand ginyu force for some
reason.
But b goma like needed to bemore active in his plan.
I think if goma had gotten theeye himself through like wizard
trickery right that would havedone the Like.

(30:01):
I think that's all that wasmissing was like Goma doing some
shenanigans.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Or he just like sat around watching the Dragon Balls
get collected and I don't know,waiting for Dende to grow up.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Right.
So like if he had done more tomess with them.
Like if he had done some moreRita Repulsa-ing, like watching
the view screen, like did magicto screw with them.
Like if Goma was sniping theirplane, that would have helped
immensely.
Like, imagine if all the randombullshit they hit had that like
Team Rocket effect of Goma's.
Like fine, I'm gonna crash themon Giant Island.
And then he stabs his staffdown and the plane crashes and

(30:39):
he's like, well, I guess thatdidn't work.
I'm going to put a bounty outagainst him.
If he was the cause of theirproblems, he would have nailed
it as an ending, because I don'tthink his personality was the
issue.
I think he didn't peel offenough.
He needed to be moreresponsible for things going
wrong.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I think that you're right.
That would have made him a muchmore well-rounded villain
Because, as it was, my maincomplaint in general is that
they just kept saying thingswere obstacles and then they
just weren't.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Right when Goma could have been giving them obstacles
.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
So like Kid Goku being in a kid body, right?
You remember in Dragon Ball,where Goku lost the World
Martial Arts Tournament becausehis legs were shorter than
Jackie Chun's?

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yep, that would have been a great callback, by the
way.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
That would have been an amazing callback and it
actually would have given someweight to the idea that his kid
body is just not as effective ashis adult body.
But his kid body never reallyseemed to actually pose any
issues at all.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Well, the thing is I get the writing choice for the
kid body.
I actually don't dislike wherethey started the show, where
Sketchy Namekian dude turns theminto kids to nerf them.
What a reasonable choice from awriting point of view.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
They wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
This's like Daima.
Was them trying to redo GT?
In a sense, and this made moresense than what GT did.
Right.
Because it's like, okay, I seewhere you're going with this, so
no problem with that.
However, it's like it was hardto gauge I to do this power

(32:27):
levels of characters, and it'slike I see why they did those
that way for the fight.
at the very end they could belike let's bust out our movie
quality animation and go hamwith it, but like to go back to
the goma third eye thing yeah Ido think like part of the
problem was he didn't wasn't theone who got the third eye, like

(32:49):
I don't even think the thirdeyes and mcguffin bugged me much
because right the payoff forthe third eye was amazing.
So let's talk about the.
So the new characters theyadded to this goma was okay.
Degasu forgot, aka budgetzamasu forgot to actually do
anything right.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
He had some sort of evil plan where he was planning
on kidnapping Dendi and runningaway until Dendi grows up.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I guess what's insane is he got the evil eye for Goma
and didn't try and steal it.
So here's what I would havedone.
I would have added an episode tothe show so I would have had A,
instead of it being a randomharlot, I absolutely would have
had A.
Instead of it being a randomharlot, I absolutely would have
had Degasu sexy jutsu and stealthe belt himself, because that

(33:32):
would have made that bit evenfunnier.
Because they mentioned thatkais don't have a gender yet for
some reason count as VaughnUnderboob, as a kai, which would
have no reason to have boobs,because they specifically
mentioned that they grow fromtrees and don't have genders.
Yeah, okay so what would havebeen good payoff for that would
be if the other guys like, ohyeah, guys can just look however
they want.
So he turned himself intobarriers von underboob to try

(33:55):
and get the belt, to then havegoma like actually ice him with
a spell or like mafuba him orsomething.
So then we get that.
That fight where we see Gomajust get betrayed by Dagasu and
then Dagasu get wrecked, wouldhave been great, and it's like
if you had to change a lot ofdialogue, you would have just
added an interaction betweenthem.
However, daima will continue tobe a necessary part of the

(34:21):
canon in my books, because MajinKu and Majin Du are the best
boys who deserve all of thecanon in my books.
Because Majin Koo and Majin Dooare the best boys who deserve
all of the head pats.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Majin Koo and Majin Doo.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Majin Koo is amazing.
He's good at errands.
He volunteered to run them.
He's good at books and deservesto be the rightful king.
I have no problems with howthat ended.
I was very happy.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
I am a little bit confused Again.
It's really hard to tell howpowerful anyone is in the series
, but why was Goma able to reactto Piccolo punching him in the
back of the head, but not MajinKud?

Speaker 1 (35:02):
So my headcanon for this is.
So Goma does this giant tornadothing and is distracted because
he got like a massive superhole blown through his chest.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
And then I think Koo pulled a Krillin and he didn't
sense Koo Cause Koo was tooshitty.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's true.
Koo was weaker than theTamagamis.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
So that's my headcanon is that he didn't
sense Kuu, and also the joke ofmaybe the book has an answer and
then just hitting him threetimes was worth it, fair enough.
Followed by the other joke ofGlorio just stepping on the eye
and making the most satisfyingsquish noise.
I found that immenselysatisfying just be like squish

(35:50):
so.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I don't imagine that you'll actually have any real
answers, aside from they neededbetter editors.
But like Deborah stole the eyefrom the vault of his father,
right.
So when uh, goma uses the eyeand he gets super jacked and

(36:15):
super powerful, and every timehe like gets beaten up, he just
gets restored by the eye theredidn't actually seem to be any
sort of drawback or reason why ademon king would just stop
wearing the eye so here's mytheory for that one Ignoring the
classic, they forgot to give ita downside where it should have

(36:35):
.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
I'm surprised it didn't just say the eye makes
you go crazy.
But here's my headcanon.
The eye has a weakness.
If you're smacked three timesin the back of the head, you
lose the eye, and then the otherguy just puts the eye in and
then you're screwed.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
So it's like A.
My logic is you wouldn't keepthe eye in all the time because
you can't be a billion feet tallin your house, like it's just
impractical to be infinitelystrong forever.
But I think that Deborah'sstrategy was he didn't want to
use the eye because he didn'twant to steal it.
And my also understanding isthe eye only seems to work in

(37:17):
the demon world Like it movesthe rocks around and bodies
around, like repairs them fromthe demon world.
So maybe Deboro's like thisisn't going to be helpful when I
bounce.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Well, I mean, I think Deboro was planning on taking
the eye for himself, and thenhis minion just stole it.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, think deborah was planning on taking the eye
for himself and then his, hisminion, just stole it.
Yeah, so that's my logic isthat the eye was probably like
stolen by a minion, and the mainreason you would not just wear
it all the time is, I don't knowlike it probably would like
make you become less rational,would be my theory yeah, yeah,
they forgot to do that Alright,but here's the reason why
Diamond can burn in a hellfire,though.
Oh.
So there's one thing happeningto Diamond that I'm super pissed
about.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
So Old man Namekian can awake your hidden potential.
Sure, I'm fine with that.
We see him use it on theTamagami.
Makes sense, he made theTamagamis, we see him use it on
the Tamagami Makes sense.
He made the Tamagamis.
We see him use it on Goku.
It makes him Super Saiyan 4 forsome reason.
I would have accepted anexplanation of I infused him
with demon world power.
Demon plus Super Saiyan makesSuper Saiyan 4.

(38:23):
Sure, it looks demon-y.
I would have accepted that.
I would have accepted.
Oh, I use my Namekian healingpowers to give you your tail
back.
That gives you Super Saiyan 4.
I would have accepted that.
I would have accepted.
Because you're kid Goku and youstill have a tail, you can
Super Saiyan 4.
I would have accepted that too.
You know what I don't acceptGoku and Vegeta having a

(38:44):
conversation afterward and Gokujust being like oh, I guess I've
been working on it on the side,because that invalidates all of
dragon ball super, because thishappens before super.
This show would have been 100canon without any questions or
issues whatsoever, had they notadded a scene where they ruined
it because they could have justnot explained it.
And then my assumption of oh,you need the namekian dude to

(39:05):
give you the power up would havejust stood and we were good.
But they went out of their wayto animate and voice a scene to
invalidate their own show at theend of it.
Why, why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I was definitely a little bit confused, but I mean
the whole transformationsequence, like say what you will
about GT, but Goku going Uzaruand then like the touching where
it pan brings him back tosanity and like yeah, that was a
top tier transformation and itgave that transformation a lot

(39:39):
of weight.
Where like firstly, goku canjust go super saiyan in his kid
body because whatever, and thenfor some reason go ten and trunk
scan well, yeah, but but I meanthen he just like, oh, I guess
I have to go Super Saiyan 3.
It's like, okay, and then, yeah,the transformation from Super

(40:01):
Saiyan 3 to Super Saiyan 4, itwas just like initially anyways,
like I say it didn't have anyweight, but then everyone was
all surprised when he goes SuperSaiyan 4 in his adult body,
like I say it didn't have anyweight, but then everyone was
all surprised when he goes SuperSaiyan 4 in his adult body,
like that was just such a weirdsequence of events.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
They forgot to set it up and there's a lot of ways
they could have set it upBecause, as you mentioned before
, the way they did it originallylooking at the Earth's
reflection and the Earth itselfis the moon to turn into a giant
ape.
To have Penn get through to himto awaken Super Saiyan 4
justifies the existence of GT.
If GT was broken into threerecap movies Gundam Seed style,

(40:44):
that first movie would be one ofthe top three Dragon Ball Z
movies.
Shadow Dragon just drops theball so hard for using any
character to do anything.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
And.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Android 17 is so boring, so it's like yeah, no,
like that.
Super Saiyan 4 was cooler thanSuper Saiyan God.
Super Saiyan 4 was cooler thanSuper Saiyan God Blue, which was
objectively the lamesttransformation objectively Ultra
.
Instinct was as cool when itwasn't a power-up.

(41:16):
So when it's just like, oh, hegot so exhausted his body just
moved on its own, that's sickthey played it that he used a
spirit bomb, burned out hisenergy completely and then his
body's just moving as a husk andit's just pure martial arts,
was cool.
But then it turned into apower-up of a hair color change.
I'm like, no, you had it thefirst time.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
The first time was cool well, I mean then that also
brings up the differencesbetween super the manga and the
anime, because in the in themanga I was like master roshi
was very close to being able tojust do ultra instinct and hold
his own against you, and withthat power, Although you've
heard my rant about the manga,where its problem is that it's

(41:56):
not willing to rewrite theentire show.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
So my problem with the manga being like, oh, we'll
just skip this arc, but we'll doother arcs differently, I'm
like no, rewrite the whole show,you bastard.
You don't get to say I assumedyou read the other thing if
you're not going to actuallyfollow the other thing and
there's a few parts like theydid better in the manga and a

(42:20):
few parts they did worse.
But like Daima as a whole, likeas a self contained story
because it was funnier, gets alot of points over, like various
chunks of the franchise.
The Super Saiyan 4 was stupidand it could have been set up,
but it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Was funnier, gets a lot of points over, like various
chunks of the franchise.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Hmm the Super Saiyan 4 was stupid and it could have
been set up, but it wasn't like.
If you're gonna have Neva dothat, you should have teased it
earlier by when he powered up toTamagami, making the Tamagami
go red and furry or at leastsome throwaway line about
infusing them with demon poweror something like you say, or

(42:53):
you know what would have beensick, so we add an episode in
where they're exploring thesecond demon realm and they just
find an island, of Osarus.
Ooh.
Right.
And then, like now that thatgoes, it's like what are those?
Like those are the Osarus.
We heard a few of them escapedinto universe seven years ago
and we never know what happenedto them.
They said that they evolve overtime and then that was like

(43:17):
boom, I activated your LeightonOzaru power.
Boom Nailed it.
I don't have a completed scriptbefore they started animating
this thing, that's what happened?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, it kind of seems like it.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
No, it was stated in an interview.
They did not have a completestrip while they're animating it
really, yep, which is a choice,a bad one?
You're the most popular animefranchise in the world.
Why would you, but yeah, liketo like kind of wrap that up
like was this better than dragonball super superhero, where
they're like oh, we're justgonna bring back the red red

(43:50):
army and sell?
Yeah, it had more creativitythan a lot of Dragon Ball
projects I've seen.
Like here's a hot take.
He only used the Kamehamehathree times and each time he
used it was really cool.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Fair.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
No one yelled out an attack name from Dragon Ball Z,
so here's a hot take.
In Dragon Ball Z, a characternever used a technique twice in
like canon.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
dragon ball z, really I mean aside from the command
man right like hell's owngrenade.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Final flash, like everything that happened in the
cell socket was like a one ordone kind of thing.
And there's a few things likedestructo disc I used like twice
but I don't even think he namedit in the manga.
And then like Flare got used acouple times but they like
weren't spamming attack nameswhen you get to like Super
Vegeta's Galick Gunning everyepisode.
The Super Saiyan 4planet-busting,

(44:44):
three-layer-creating Kamehamehablast was cool.
The Super Saiyan 4transformation was lame.
Compared to GT, that Kamehamehawas one of the top three
Kamehamehas of all time.
It was a cool concept to blowthrough three planets.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
At least in my opinion.
What did you think?

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I would definitely say that that was cool blasting
through the demon lord, well,through King Goma and then
through the three realms, tocreate new pathways, and it's
just like the demon realmsthemselves, I will say, were
really like, interesting andunique with how they were

(45:33):
layered.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Like I said, there's a lot to enjoy there, but
there's no reason from thenarrative they've written for
Super Saiyan 4 to be there,other than make the GT parallel
more obvious.
No reason to be there.
Also another reason that Dalmacan rot in hell the fusion bugs.
You didn't like the bugs.

(45:59):
I would have loved the bugs ifthey used them.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's true, they didn't actually use the bugs.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
They introduce fusion bugs and then don't pay it off.
So I would have hated if theyfused goku and vegeta into super
saiyan 4 gogeta.
That would have been lame Iwanted characters.
I wasn't expecting to get tofuse to do stuff you know what
would have been immensely coolerthan super saiyan 4, goku and

(46:29):
glorio fusing into Glory-ku.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Into Glorku.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Glorku would have been awesome.
Also, piccolo was the mostunderutilized concept, so they
were like retcon retcon.
Retcon of Namekians wereactually demons and Demon King
Piccolo was actually a demon.
Piccolo did nothing.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
he did less than pan, like he did nothing in this
show hey, he failed to punchgoma in the back of the head
twice.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Any other character could have failed to punch goma
in the head.
The thing that made piccolointeresting would have been like
references to demon kingpiccolo.
Like I wanted him to walk downthe street and have like some
tambourine-looking motherfuckerbow Right.
Like I would have loved it ifPiccolo rolled up and people
were like, oh god, former DemonKing Piccolo.

(47:22):
Like I would have loved it ifthey like slipped in a retcon
that Demon King Piccolo is whowas in charge before Dabura.
Like they could have done somuch with Piccolo in Demon World
Instead.
Like they could have done somuch with Piccolo in Demon World
instead, he should have justwaited on the lookout, like
everyone else yeah, that's true,piccolo did.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he didliterally nothing the problem is
they gave what he should havebeen doing to Shin cause, like

(47:44):
they brought Shin to be thecharacter who explains the Demon
World.
Piccolo would have worked justas well, and I don't think one
would have worked better thanthe other, because they both
would have been an effectivestraight man for comedy.
But they didn't need both.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Well, and then, like you say, they doubled up on the
female mechanic genius.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Right, like my other hot take is, I don't think they
needed the second crew, as muchas I enjoyed Vegeta going Super
Saiyan 3 which I actually kindof did, because that was one of
those retcons where you're like,well, why did you go Super
Saiyan 3 against Marisa?
Because Super Saiyan 3 kind ofsucks.
It drains your power too fast.
So he just raged out andpunched him instead, because of

(48:26):
course, vegeta wouldn't trySuper Saiyan 3.
After he heard Super Saiyan 3,goku got knocked out in one
punch.
Yeah, I'm going to charge for10 minutes against the guy who
one-shots that.
Why would I do that?
Hmm, but like the Vegeta andBulma moments were legitimately
good, mm-hmm.
Here's what should havehappened Vegeta, goku, bulma and
Piccolo should have been in theship that went with Glorio,

(48:49):
because sending a second crewwas pointless.
They didn't do anythinginteresting.
They never split the party.
Yeah.
Like, the D&D joke has neversplit the party, the writing
joke has always split the party.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah well, so there was another weird choice that
they made Again, like so, uh,Goku or Vegeta beats up the
random thugs, right, and thentheir plane gets stolen.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Because that's the show Planes.
Just go to the ground in a showwhere people can fly, sure.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Right.
But so then Goku and crew showup to be like oh sorry, we can't
actually take you along becauseour ship's not big enough.
God, was that a waste of screentime?
Yeah, oh sorry, we can'tactually take you along because
our ship's not big enough, God.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Was that a waste of screen time?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, well, and then not only that, but then the
villain, the nameless thugs,come to beat him up and they
just get their plane back.
There was another one of thosethings that was like you said,
this was an obstacle, but itwasn't.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
So here's what I would have done there.
So you have two crews and twoobjectives.
Objective one get the DragonBalls and fight the Tamagami,
and objective two rescue Dendeand beat up Goma.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Which would have made sense for Piccolo to be on that
team because he's Namekian.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
So here's what I would have done is Goku goes and
fights the first Tamagami and Ienjoyed the Tamagami fight.
I would have made the Tamagamia bit stronger, honestly,
Because it's like Goku goesSuper Saiyan.
Technically, he went SuperSaiyan 2.
During that fight, the onlineDiscord really tried to debate
the hairband because SuperSaiyan 2 is not visible, it just
has the little zappy zaps Right.
And then he played a shell game.

(50:26):
I'm fine with that.
I kind of enjoy theirnow-attestive skill part.
That's a fine mechanic for me.
But then when Vegeta and palsmet up with them, they should
have went.
Okay, we're going to godirectly to the third Demon
World.
So Goku and Kuro go directly tothe third, and then Vegeta and
Kuro go to the second.
And now we have cut-ins bouncingbetween these characters,

(50:46):
because then having twoidentical crews isn't a problem
if they travel separately.
So then we get vegeta fightsthe kraken hates, seafood bugs,
mud wine, hybus trying to talkthem into a three-way fights,
the tamagami, and then we havegoku actually dealing with goma
and goma city, which means thatwe can have goma be a problem
when they're in the third demonworld.

(51:08):
And then you can have vegeta,then double back and pick up the
army when that army shows up tohelp them.
Like you get the idea right,like you split the tasks, so
then your characters can bedoing different things, because
the show keeps thinking Goku andVegeta have entertaining
on-screen chemistry.
They don't.
They do not.

(51:30):
You know who have entertainingon-screen chemistry Vegeta and
Hibis.
Because Hibis is so cluelessand so done with his corporate
9-to-5 job, vegeta's threatsmean nothing to him.
Like what are you going to do?
Put me in a minimum wage job.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Uh yeah, hibis was a pretty, was a highlight of the
show.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I also really enjoyed Gloria.
Like there's a few momentswhere Gloria like just pulled a
gun on a dude and just splasheshis drink in their face.
I'm like you know, right,you're pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Okay, so I mentioned a while ago, a little bit back
here, that Dabura had the powerto turn people to stone with his
spit, yes, with his spit, yes,um, and, and you mentioned it
was like, oh yeah, maybe if uhgoma had been like summoning
rocks to try and take down theirship and intentionally crafting
them onto the, the giant islandor whatever right like I wanted

(52:23):
to get team rocket with this.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Like I wanted to cast a spell.
The term bees giant kind ofbullshit well.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
So it's like again back back in Dragon Ball.
Goku lost to General Blue, whowas objectively weaker, but he
had a weird power, namely thelike um, that's one thing that I
he literally he breaksconcentration on holding goku

(52:57):
still, because he's he's a mouserunning from him, which is
hilarious right and so like Iwas really expecting more uh
demons having quirky magicpowers, but for some reason they
all just use guns.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Well, it's kind of funny, it's Glorious, like
demons have magic and shotlightning at Goku and then
everyone switched to guns.
Because, I agree, quirky demonmagic would have been a great
choice.
Also, the final boss battleshouldn't have been like Super
Jack Third Igoma.
It probably should have been Kuand Dew f fusing if we want

(53:36):
someone to actually fight.
Oh, fight, oh yeah because Iwould have been fine with the
villains using the fusion bugs.
I'm just mad that checkoff'sfusion bug did nothing, like I'm
.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I'm bitter about that , majin Dooku.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Right, so the joke being that they fused into Majin
Boo.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
No, no, they would just be Dooku.
Then they would fight with alightsaber.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
But either way, and also you could do the aesthetic,
because Coo looked like Kid Booand Do looked like Fat Boo and
they'd fuse into Super Boo andbe legitimately intimidating.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
And like, if we really want to do the we made Ku
and Du, having them like turninto like a Superboo and like
absorb one of these people webrought along for no reason.
Mm.
Like there's a lot they couldhave done with that, but the
thing is like I don't mind thembeing reluctant antiheroes and
I'm happy with President MajinKu.
Also, I've determined that theGlyns are racist, judge as a

(54:37):
character, nepo-babies andshould probably all be killed.
So she goes up to Arisu whosaid, quote I want to make the
demon world worse, which I likedher, by the way.
Her motivation's like oh, I'mjust here to let chaos reign.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
And it's like, actually I'm gonna wish to be
the king.
I'm like that's lame, like Iwant your wish to actually be.
Hey, Gloria, make my wish.
What's your wish?
I want to reign bees, orliterally, I wish the demon
world was worse.
Is actually my wish, right?
I mean, she was gettingwishjacked and they were being
wished back to being adultsanyway.
That's the only way it couldhave went.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Right right.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
But, like Shin, going up and being like you should be
in charge.
I'm like, can you think of asingle reason other than racism
why that is true?
What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
You have a sliver of good in you.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
No, this is just racism, all right.
You're like no, no, we're theglins, we're in charge of
everyone.
I'm like this is pretty Zamasu,but two out of three glins we
saw in this miniseries werepsychopath tyrants.
Two out of three, Three out ofthree if you count Shin.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Well, I mean, he kind of isn't a psychopath, but Are
you sure?

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Pretty psychopathic to appoint the person making a
new Majin Buu as president.
Like I can't imagine anythingthat crazy happening in real
life, like that'd just be wildfor a person to be.
Like I can shoot you on thestreet and then get elected
twice.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
That would be pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
But moving away from obvious fiction, so like the
ending is kind of funny, as theSuper Saiyan 4 nonsense was
nonsense.
But like I said, even thoughyou're like, I'm not sure it
makes sense that he hit himthree times with the book, like
it was missing something likeusing like Masaroshi's Zappu
technique or something to holdGoma, to get smacked by the book

(56:34):
Like I'm finding that smackedby the book.
I think it was just missing hisbrother going all goopy Zuperson
and then like tie him up withhis body or something Like if Du
had wrapped him up or fullNelsoned him or something, so Ku
could do the smack, smack,smack.
I don't think we would have hada problem with that.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah, well, it's just like there didn't seem to be
any meaningful differencebetween the way Piccolo attacked
and the way Ku attacked.
But Ku was successful becausethe way Ku attacked.
But Ku was successful becausethe show was over.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I mean counterpoint.
Majin Du went Super Saiyan 3after being thrown a giant
cookie and that was just great.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Majin Du going.
Super Saiyan 3 was prettyamazing.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Especially the joke that Majin Ku's, like I, can run
errands and that ended up beingrelevant on three occasions.
Or him speed reading being thesolution to the boss up being
relevant on three occasions.
Or him speed reading being thesolution to the boss also being
relevant.
Like they wrote him so well,like they arced that random
saiba ben majin.
Like yeah, we had no hischaracter arc.
We know what we're gonna dowith him.
He's a good brother, he's agood assistant.

(57:35):
He's gonna make his mom abetter person.
I'm like no, this is, this isgreat.
Like this is a fantasticcharacter.
You decided to introduce eightepisodes in.
That's the emotional core ofthe show, somehow Right after
he's like to the Tamagami.
I lose, but I can still doother things.
Don't fire me.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
I'm pretty powerful.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
I'm not super powerful, but I'm pretty
powerful.
I'm like, yeah, no, Majin Koo,supremacy here.
I also really enjoyed the bitwhere Nava's like to the
Tamagotchi like wink, go, go.
And he's like me, Like, yeah,go, and like they just do that
awkward bit for like a minute.
That was great.
He's like am I allowed to go dothe thing?
He's like, yeah, go do thething.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Also, Neva not being the big bad, Neva was sketchy as
hell uh, yeah, neva wasdefinitely super sketchy, uh,
and it's like he did all sortsof weird things and so again,
you know, oh, warpzomba'sdisabled.
A good thing that Neva's hereto disable the gates that he put

(58:42):
on there for some reason,because he didn't like people
visiting his homeworld.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
So on one hand, I don't hate them putting on the
gates to make like a racist casesystem, like had Goma put on
the gates A, that would havebeen a good Goma shadowing right
.
Like oh, oh yeah, this is aspell put out by goma to make
our lives worse.
That would be great, and I don'teven hate that.
Neva's like, oh, I've beenhanging out here trying to find
a way to counterspell this, soit was like, yeah, goma, put on

(59:11):
these gates.
So we use warp sama.
You know what, fuck, goma.
But what was missing is like aninspirational piccolo speech
like here's how I would havewrote that the gates are put up
by Goma.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
To be racist.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Because it's on bread .
Makes him a little scarier.
If he could just create magicalportal gates.
Right.
Neva's like reluctantly taggingalong and earlier in the
episode has a chat with Piccoloabout oh, how are the people
doing anyway?
Oh, we're gods, now we're doinggreat Da-da-.
But oh, how are the peopledoing anyway?
Oh, we're gods, now we're doinggreat, da, da, da da.
This one actually saved ourentire race from frieza.

(59:46):
So when goku's falling to hisdeath, never being like, ah,
fuck it, and then saving him,like the idea that never you
could have left him morally grayand be like, oh yeah, I was
totally gonna let this kid die.
but then one of my people camefrom outside and told me about
it and I figured, you know what,I am going to screw over Goma,
because the idea that he wasplaying senile I like it better,
that he was evil and thenrealized that Namekians are a

(01:00:08):
thing again and it's like youknow what, and did an actual
betrayal would have beeninteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
But instead his character was just the MacGuffin
that solves all their problems.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
And, like I said, if Piccolo's purpose was to
convince the MacGuffin to doMacGuffin things, that would
have justified Piccolo beingthere.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Yeah, like you say, Piccolo did absolutely nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Also because Piccolo's fused with Kami and
Nail.
It would have been good ifPiccolo knew who this Neva guy
was.
It would have been good ifPiccolo knew who this Neva guy
was.
Like, I think it would havebeen interesting to be like.
I know you, you're sketchy asfuck.
Like I would have loved them.
Like cat and mousing each otherthe entire time.

(01:00:55):
Where, like Neva's endgame wasto kill Goma, it could have been
really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Okay, but you said that they actually admitted in
an interview that they didn'thave a complete draft when they
started animating.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah, according to their animation deadlines, they
hadn't scripted out the wholething yet.
Huh, wild choice, right,there's a reason why Arcane wins
all the awards and DragableDiamond does not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Well, yeah, like you say, this seems to be very
obviously a first draft, wherethey have things that could be
really cool obstacles Like ifthey crash, land on the Mega
Island and one of them getskidnapped to be a pet a la
Gilligan's Island, and then therest of the party has to sneak

(01:01:42):
into this giant castle andrescue their captured friend.
That would have been a genuineand interesting obstacle for
them to overcome, but insteadthey just fly away.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
And also like let's go with the plane being stolen.
I think the plane being stolenneeds to be handled in a
non-faito-faito way.
So I would have enjoyed Gloriogoing through a speakeasy.
I would have liked Glorio doinga full noir episode to try and
track down their plane.
I would have loved Glorio tojust shoot a person in the face.

(01:02:15):
Bring back some of thatviolence from Dragon Ball Z and
Dragon Ball of Goku.
Just watches Glorio shoot aperson in the face and be like
that's not nice.
We don't shoot people in theface when they steal our plane.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Gloria would have been great but yeah, I just I
feel like the show was very wellanimated and I mean I almost
want to watch GT to see if it'sas bad.
I feel like the show was verywell animated and I mean I
almost want to watch GT to seeif it's as bad as you say it is.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
That would be a fun retroactive to compare, because
I'm going to put a hot take.
I think GT had some moreambitious ideas and I think
Daima had more creativity untilit didn't.

(01:03:09):
So it was like gt's aninteresting one, because on
paper gt has really cool ideasparasit alien that steals all
his friends bodies to buildhimself a super body, to turn
into a giant ape, interestingdoctor.
The two villains creating anevil plan where they open a
gateway to hell to bring backall the old villains but it
hadn't been done to a death yet.
The Dragon Balls cracking fromoveruse and forming the big bad

(01:03:31):
of Dragon Ball.
Great idea.
They just forgot they had othercharacters who weren't kid Goku
like.
It's funny that I'm stillmaking this complaint them being
kids in Daima.
To put them on the same levelas these random demons was
interesting.
Like I didn't hate the idea.
I'm not sure how well it heldup.
When you like, pay attention toit, but I get the idea of why

(01:03:52):
you'd want to nerf them in thefirst place, so random bandits
with guns can actually hurt them.
Right.
But, like GT, the villains wereall already stronger than Goku,
so there was no reason to nerfGoku fair right like.
Instead of making Goku a kidagain, it should have been adult

(01:04:13):
.
Goku Pan should have had moreof Goku's personality.
I think if the grand tour wasPan, goku and Uub and and Uub
and Pan and Uub trying to likestraight man each other and then
Goku pulling was Cell Saga,goku of like.
I don't want to step in until Ihave to, because this is a

(01:04:33):
learning experience for thesekids.
Right.
That would have been reallycompelling, right, because you
would have had Pan with Gokuenergy going and picking fights,
starting problems, causingchaos, being a chaos gremlin you
would have had noob, thecharacter who grew up from like
a poor village, trying to belike the straight man.
here's what we're doing.
So it'd be like almost like thebulma goku dynamic from dragon

(01:04:54):
ball would be pan being the gokuand being the bulma, while goku
is taking more of a MasterRoshi role at this point and
then when the Tuffle thingstarts heating up Goku's, like,
oh shit, I need to actually dostuff now Because once like the.
Tuffle invasion happens.
He doesn't need to be Kid Gokuanymore because it is reasonable

(01:05:15):
for Vegeta and Gohan and Gotenand Trunks and Piccolo all
jumping him at once to ruin hisday.
Right.
Like that made sense.
So that's my thing is like no,you should have kept him adult
Goku, but like the Goku'sactually trying to help the next
generation and let Pan be thenarrative lead in GT.

(01:05:35):
Daima's problem was actuallyjust a lack of focus, Because I
don't think they had two crewsand, like I was saying, had
those crews been allowed tooperate independently and
accomplish shit.
Their problem was, as you keepsaying, they forgot to give them
actual obstacles and theyforgot to make the villains

(01:05:56):
actual threats.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Because them being kids means they should have had
actual threats, like, as youmentioned, yeah is a rock.
Because I think it would havebeen objectively funny to watch

(01:06:22):
Bulma, with like a Vegeta statuetied to her back, bitching her
entire way through trying tofind an antidote that would have
like given them an actualproblem.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, because I mean even them being turned into kids
didn't really actually seemlike a problem.
The problem that Dende gotkidnapped is relatively serious,
but Dende didn't really seem tobe the emotional core as soon
as he got into the demon world.
It's like, oh, actually, let'sfight the Tamagami.

(01:06:55):
It's like, well, what aboutDende?
You?

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
know what's wild, they could have fixed it.
It would have been really easyto fix when Dende you know
what's wild, they could havefixed it.
It would have been really easyto fix when Dende got turned to
a kid Earth Dragon Balls turnoff.
Then there's only one way tobring them back and it's the
Demon Dragon Balls.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Other than the Namekian Dragon Balls, which
also exist.
Honestly, they could have justsolved all this by warping to
new Namek and making a wish, andit would have just been fixed
in 30 seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
The last thing I want to say that kind of bugged me
about Daima.
So Goku's like, oh, I'm notused to my kid body, my range
isn't the same, oh, I'll just goget the the Nioibo.
I was like, okay, okay, that'scool and he does actually like

(01:07:46):
use it.
But I almost feel like wheneverhe actually gets serious, he
just throws it to the side.
Oh yeah, I almost feel like Igot nostalgia-baited.
They're just like, eh, check itout.
He has his Neobo again and Idon't fall for nostalgia bait
very often, but I I don't knowwhat I expected the new eyeball

(01:08:09):
to actually do, but I was sadthat it actually wasn't relevant
at all, you know kind of a hottake.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
as much as I enjoyed the Vegeta Bulma scene, how much
better do you think Daima wouldhave been if it was just Goku
Glorio Shin?
Well, I would have swatched outShin with Piccolo.
So I would have went GokuPiccolo Glorio and didn't bring
in Vegeta until the very endwhen they'd fixed their ship,

(01:08:38):
because I do think part of ittoo was like part of the threat
factor not being a threat.
It's weird, because they nerfedthe characters but then never
had them lose a fight.
I think Goku needed to lose tothat first Tamagami.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Or something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Because if Goku just like didn't beat it or I also
would have been fine with himgoing Super Saiyan 3, beating it
and being like a pile on theground, because then you had ku
and do beat the third one andthat would set the stakes right.
If goku is equal to tamagamione and then majin ku beats
tamagami 3, then you're like, oh, these are actually dangerous

(01:09:19):
yeah, that was, I guess, one ofthe things I texted you when I
was suggesting this as a titleor episode.
I mean is that they forgot toset a reference point for how
powerful these charactersactually are relative to the new
kid bodies like they need toget beat up, like to be

(01:09:42):
perfectly clear, like they needto get first day they show up in
demon world.
They get jumped by genericthugs.
Goku can beat up generic thugswhile eating a burger.
That's fine.
That's some classic dragon ballshenanigans.
But somewhere around episodethree or four he needed to just
get his shit stomped.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Yeah, and then they need to like regroup and
actually fight strategically,you know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Like you know what would have been actually pretty
good.
So you know what they couldhave done with Gomo, that would
have been fun.
So they go into the first demonworld, right, and then Gomo's
like we need to go stop them.
Gomo shows up, hand waves andjust warps the party to random
spots in the demon world.
Hmm, or it also would have beenreally fun if, like Goma shows
up and then his Kai friend likeputs a hand on the shoulder of

(01:10:30):
like some other character, likeGlorio or whoever, and then like
teleports them away.
So it's just Goku and Goma, andthen Goma wrecks his shit.
Hmm, it's just Goku and.
Goma and then Goma wrecks hisshit.
Or even before they left thelookout, I think getting wish to
kids and then Goku getting beatup by Goma would have been
correct.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Well, yeah, because Goma literally didn't do
anything until he got the thirdeye and he just was the demon.
It just seemed like kid Gokucould have just soloed the demon
world on his own.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah, he could have soloed the demon world on his
own.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Yeah, he could have objectively.
I mean even the, the supposedlymassive army of gendarm
gendarmory uh, that had thempinned down for some reason is
like they're.
They're generic thugs that areweaker than a tamagami.
Why, why is goku struggling?

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
well, it's kind of interesting, is?
It's like they casually threwaway this level of the demon.
World is heavy, this one'swatery, this one's really hot,
but they forgot to make thosehandicaps matter.
If.
Goku's, like I'm exhaustedbecause I can't breathe, would
have been pretty reasonable.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Well, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
But also it's kind of a thing that people forget
about Dragon Ball.
So in early Dragon Ball Gokusolos everybody for the most
part right, they remember that.
Oh yeah, goku went and beat upthe entire Red Ribbon Army.
They forget that in every plotarc at least one person exists
to slap Goku shit like Roshi,rolled up specifically with the

(01:12:00):
goal in mind to be humble Goku.
Goku's win loss in Z isterrible Because we get to the
Red Ribbon Saga and he loses toBlue.
He has a really bad day withWhite when he gets literally
kicked out of the tower he'sjust found in a snowbank.

(01:12:21):
He gets demolished by Tao, justabsolutely slaughtered.
Yeah, gets bodied by KingPiccolo, gets bodied by Tien and
like Z's, like Z's, like oh no,no, no, goku's getting killed
episode 1 and then every bone inhis body broken in episode 20.

(01:12:43):
And I'm like, yeah, no, you'reright.
The problem is you turned themto get to nerf them and they
didn't have anyone beat them up.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
And like I'm, it's just.
I have no idea how strong theseTamagami are relative to
anything else.
And if the Tamagami arerelative to anything else, and
if the Tamagami are weaker thanKid Saiyans, then the Demon
itself is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
The Tamagami are as strong as Dabura, who's as
strong as Perfect Cell.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
So the Tamagamis are as strong as Perfect Cell.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Goku.
So then you draw thatcomparison in kid Goku going
Super Saiyan.
Maybe Super Saiyan 2 isstronger than Cell.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Super Saiyan 2 Goku.
The age that Gohan was when hewent.
Super Saiyan 2 against Cellyeah, actually.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
You think so?

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
It would have been if Goku was wrecked afterward.
Because if it was a close?
fight, then yeah, I could buythat Super Saiyan 2 Goku was
wrecked afterward.
If it was a close fight, thenyeah, I could buy that Super
Saiyan 2.
Goku in a kid body Was asstrong as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan
when he fought Perfect CellAfter Buu Saga.
If that was the metric we'reusing, I would have bought it If

(01:13:57):
Goku had been like Nothing left.
I also would have been reallyhappy if Goku lost and the
Tamagami's like huh, you didgood and you're a good person,
so you lost the fight, but I'llgive you a second chance.
Let's play a minigame, mm.
Because if the Tamagami's likewhy do you want the Dragon Ball?
It's like we need to save ourfriends in the demon world.

(01:14:18):
That'd be weird.
No one does good things bydefault.
So he's like he loses the fight, but it's close.
And the Tamagami's like youknow what?
Let's play a game, because thenGoku's still lost to the
Tamagami but won its respect.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Yeah, and then, like you say, if Wenmajin do beats up
the other Tamagami, then itsets that scaling, that you know
that Du is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
And another thing I would have accepted is if Goku
went Super Saiyan 3.
Against that, first Tamagamiwon and then was just out, done
Like it was like.
Eh, that is every piece ofenergy in my body.
Should not have done this as akid.
It's in the dirt Like it waslike and that is every piece of
energy in my body.
Should not have done this as akid.
I was just in the dirt, likeI'm not just for the episode,
like till the end of the nextepisode.

(01:15:08):
They had to be carrying himBecause beating the Tamagami
drained his battery so hard.
That would have been fine,because then Gloria would have
had to be useful, because thenthey would have had to play
Defend Goku for a coupleepisodes.
Right.
Which is the name of Dragon BallZ was the Defend Goku show.
But overall, like I said, Istill rate it pretty high

(01:15:34):
because the animation was good.
The new characters were stellar.
Like even Nevo was like okay,sketching the Emekian dude.
If I got a Dragonball Daima 2to pick up some of these loose
ends they never got around to,I'd be fine, I'd be happy with
that.
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
But yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
And I don't dislike my placement because, like I
said, gt meandered a lot.
Daima in a vacuum was betterthan a lot of Super.
To rant about Dragon Ball Super, even though the episode's gone
pretty long at this point.
So in Dragon Ball Super, do youremember when they were like
we're going to have a Universe 6versus Universe 7 tournament?

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Why, in Zeno's name, did they not make Universe 6 as
strong as Universe 7?
Why did they not have Friezashow up, frost show up and let
him go Gold Frost and be like,oh, wait a minute.
And then have Cabba show up andgo Super Saiyan God, because
he's a good-hearted Saiyan andfive Saiyans gave him the power.
Universe 6, if they rolled upas strong as Universe 7, super

(01:16:40):
would have been such a bettershow.
Because the idea is like oh,goku and Vegeta are so super
powerful now they don't measurewas the wrong approach.
It should have been they're sosuper powerful that they're the
strongest people in thisuniverse.
But it turns out in theparallel universe other people
went through the same shit asthey did and are as powerful

(01:17:01):
Like I couldn't believe.
When they're like yeah, one ofthe strongest people we're using
in this tournament is as strongas Frieza from the Frieza saga,
like why there's no stakes hereat all.
Also, how does him not just ownthat universe?
The strikeable superpowerscaling is worse than Diamond's,
for the record.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
That is also true, because we're like okay.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Goku's so strong he disintegrates asteroids by
punching someone else.
And then Super Saiyan 1, kaba,is to be taken seriously.
And if he's strong enough todefeat a literal god of
destruction, why does he notjust own his universe, like the
amount stronger he is thaneveryone else there?
If that's your top five and wegot, number four is I have Super

(01:17:44):
Saiyan.
I just learned and number five.
It's like number two is I justlearned Super Saiyan and number
one is I can beat up SuperSaiyan God Super Saiyan.
Then I'm sorry, but this guy isso much stronger than everyone
else in his universe combined.
It's not actually fair.
Like what do you mean people?
You do things for money.
Why would you need money?

(01:18:05):
Goku can shoot a Kamehamehathrough three planets and you
beat him up.
You won that fight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
He sure did.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
But like disregarding how I think Daima may in fact
be better than Super.
Hmm.
Actually, I think I'll say itDaima was better than Super.
Hmm, actually, I think I'll sayit.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Daima was better than Super.
Well see, battle of Gods was sogood.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
That was Z in a movie .

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I'm just saying Battle of Gods.
I mean I think the movie wasmuch better than the season
based on the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
But I can firmly say Battle of Gods wasn't Super than
the season based on the movie.
I can firmly say Battle of Godswasn't Super.
So when Super did Battle ofGods, they took a lot of
creative liberties.
Right.
And Beerus is amazing Peakcharacter, 10 out of 10.
Great villain.
Some of the crap they pulled inthe Battle of Gods Super version

(01:19:00):
, like when they did thosepunching classes that
disintegrated random planets orthat like oh, there's a bit in
the movie where Goku SuperSaiyan God wears off and he just
starts fighting because he's soawesome, and then the anime
they're like and he gets Godmode back at the end.
I'm like, no, you missed thepoint of all of this.
I think the fact that they justhad Super Saiyan God, super

(01:19:22):
Saiyan afterward and it was justa thing they could do,
undercuts Battle of God so muchthat Super actually makes Battle
of God worse by what followsafterward.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Hmm, fair.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Because it's like, yeah, no, like the idea being
that Super Saiyan God is asstrong as Goku gets and then
Super, hmm, fair.
Because it's like, yeah, no,like the idea being that Super
Saiyan God is as strong as Gokugets and then Super's him trying
to get back to that height issuch a better plot arc than
actually.
I've already surpassed that,but somehow I have problems.
Hmm.
Because it's like, if Goku'sactually beer as strong
throughout all of Super, why wasthere even a tournament of

(01:20:04):
power then?
Like, who are these otherpeople?
Why is Krillin there If Goku'snot?
Because there's this bit wherehe's going around collecting
people and he goes Super SaiyanBlue against Android 17 and I'm
like you broke the power scaling, Joe.
You broke this completely,Because no one else should
measure at all.
If Beerus is one tapping SuperSaiyan 3, Goku and then Goku's

(01:20:28):
now approaching Beerus, why isTien here?
Like the tournament power Ireally enjoyed, but it's power
scaling is just so ridiculouslywhack it hurts.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
I guess that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Like it's ludicrous to be like oh, android,
so-and-so, who is cell-strong isfighting Jiren who one-tapped a
god, I don't understand what'shappening anymore.
So Diamond's power scaling, Ithink was actually a lot better.
Like here's my hot take is thekid's thing was weird.

(01:21:05):
But if we go that a Tamagami isequal to perfect self and we
argue that kid Goku mostly loststamina and runtime but
technically is as strong as kidGohan was in that age, which
would be a fair thing to say,Then Tamagami won and if we
assume the Tamagamis weregetting stronger and they

(01:21:26):
weren'tlike 1, 2, and 3 were each a
little bit stronger, or if theywere the same, we go Goku equal
to Super Saiyan 2 Goku, weakerthan Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta,
because Vegeta's Tamagami got abuff.
And then Majin Buu is about asstrong as Majin Buu who fought
Super Saiyan 3 Goku, but he'sbeen nerfed and Goku's been

(01:21:47):
nerfed.
These characters are all kindof fitting in a relative power
scale.
And then Goma just had anInfinity Plot X MacGuffin.
He had the Hengu, so whodoesn't matter.
And the problem was like thejoke being they only
appropriately power-scaled Kuand Du, who weren't actually
villains.
Like there was never thetag-team fight of Goku and

(01:22:11):
Vegeta versus Ku and Du.
That just didn't actuallyhappen.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Yeah, it was so close .

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
Because, like I think , one of their misplays was
being like Goku, taking out theTamagami Means.
Everyone in this demon world isweaker than Goku, except these
new characters we madeSpecifically to deal with Goku
that we never used to deal withGoku, yep, but I do think it
handled it better than Super,where it was like complete
nonsense.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
True.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
Like how strong was.
How strong was Future trunks indragon ball super when he
pulled out a spirit bomb swordusing a technique he'd never
even heard about?

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
uh, yeah, the future trunks should not have even been
able to hold a candle next toanything in that plot arc.
Really.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
And it's like they could have made it so he could
have, because they're like ohyeah, he went and trained with
the Supreme Kai and like,defeated Bobbidi so Boo never
got released.
I'm like you screwed up.
You had him train with theSupreme Kai, get his potential
unlocked with Gohan and beat Boo.
And now we can believe he's acredible character Because you
let him have 10 years off-screen, since he had 10 years

(01:23:25):
off-screen which A?
He should have been 10 yearsolder because his timeline runs
parallel to Goku's timeline.
So he should have been like 30.
I would fully believe30-year-old Trunks, after
dealing with the Buu saga byhimself, was at Goku and
Vegeta's level, Other than thegod bullshit like Like, I would

(01:23:50):
have been fine with him being abadass in that circumstance.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
But I think that's probably enough ranting about
Dragon Ball, daima and Super,and we should probably move on
to a random question.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
I suppose so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
I mean, the more random, the better.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Let's see.
Looking for it, looking for it.
Ugh, already used that, alreadyused that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Uh-oh, Spaghetti-O.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Do-do-do-do.
We already used the Life has aTheme Song one, because we
probably talked about how youwrote me a theme song.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
I'm not sure if we did, but I did write you a theme
song.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Have we done the Spirit Animal yet?

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
I don't specifically remember.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
All right.
What is your spirit animal andwhy do you think it's that
animal?
So mine's raccoon.
I am just a trash panda.
To my very core of my being, Ieat garbage.
I'm the exact golden ratioshape of a raccoon.
Raccoon is my spirit animal.
I have the same dark circlesunder my eyes and have committed

(01:25:05):
as many crimes allegedly.
Ooh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
Well, I mean, uh, I, uh, I'm thinking um, well See, a
lot of cats are assholes, so itwould have to specifically be
like a chill cat, like my cat.
Her name is Elsa aw.

(01:25:30):
She's very cute, but she's verylike chill and indifferent, but
not like aggressive andassholey like some cats are.
My cat's a potato, yeah, miko.
Miko is another good catexample.

(01:25:51):
So, like a small house cat, Ifeel like that would be my
spirit animal.
I'm not a big cat because bigcats are.
I mean, big cats are prettyathletic and I don't know if I'm
actually that athletic.
I think I am.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
But Although I do think I used this question wrong
.
What I should have done is Ishould have had us pick each
other's spirit animal becausethat's more interesting.
So I would give you a capybara.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Capybara.
Oh yeah, capybara, that wouldprobably actually be pretty good
.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Capybara, don't give a shit.
Capybara is just out hereliving his best life in the hot
spring and no one attacks.
It has no predators becauseit's too busy being Capybara.
So I'd give you Capybara.
Hmm, hmm, hmm, uh, hmm, hmm, uh, hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
I think you might be your spirit animal.
Might be a dolphin not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
The choice are you saying unpleasant things about
me.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
No, no, no, I'm saying that you're very
intelligent and extremely social.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
I'm an introvert, I just play social person on TV,
but I'll take it.
I'll take the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
You can only fake being an introvert for so long.
You can only fake being anextrovert for so long before it
becomes true.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Yeah, except when I had a week off and I no longer
had to fake being an extrovert.
I dropped off the face of theearth for a solid week and it
was great.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
I suppose that's true .
But All right, maybe I'm wayoff the mark with the dolphin.
I'll take it, I'm not going tofight you over it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Obviously it's your opinion.
It can be wrong, it's yourright you're so thoughtful glad
we built each other up here,clearly, clearly that is the
goal alright.
And our second oneDo-do-do-do-do-do.
This one's a direct attackagainst me, clearly.

(01:28:09):
Are you a?
Good dancer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Depends on the dance.
I've been called the Polka King.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
I believe that that tracks.
So last wedding I went to, oneof my friends dragged me onto
the dance floor and I could notbe less cool than this person.
So I had to try, but I was verydrunk, the joke being that I
can actually ballroom dance, butit never comes up Because, like

(01:28:41):
one of my goals growing up wasto grow up to be Tuxedo Mask or
Zex Marquise, and neither ofthose things happened.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Too bad.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
But I will say that I can, in theory, slow dance and
I can also thrash aroundrandomly to music while drunk.
I have that ability.
I would not call that dancing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Me and my fian fiance haven't really actually done
anything, but we have enoughspace in our basement where we
could actually probably actuallylearn how to dance.
I'm hoping to maybe eventuallyfind some YouTube tutorials on
how to do the jive and then,when we get married, we'll Go
take a dance class.
Or you know, I could, if I hadfunds, I would just buy you a

(01:29:28):
dance class and make you go takeit.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
It's good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
It probably would be good for me.
But anyway, you know, I've,I've, uh, I've always wanted to.
You know, dance classes havealways interested me.
I've just never made the timeor money for it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
I'm just sad.
I've never been to a masqueradeball Like that's.
So many kinds of my vibe, it'sridiculous.
Wow, this last question is soloaded and I probably shouldn't
get into it this late into theepisode, but I'm going to do it.
What?
Is your best idea for a newinvention Best to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
What is your best idea for a new invention?

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
My best idea for a new invention that could easily
be like a two-hour long episode.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
You just gotten this.
Well, I have two options.
The first, I've probablymentioned before, is the Amazing
Steakhouse.
Not exactly an invention.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
I'll let you have that the smart maze system.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Yeah, the smart maze system.
But idea number two, which Ithink I may have actually even
mentioned to you relativelyrecently, but a dice rolling
tray.
I don't know what specificapplication this would have, but
a dice rolling tray which hascameras underneath and so when
you roll the die, based on theresult that the camera can see

(01:30:48):
provided it's a normal die whereeach opposite side will equal
the number of faces plus one, uh, so with the camera you could
tell what number you've rolled,based on what number it can see,
and thus would be able totransmit physical dice rolls
into a digital environment.
I would love to see that.
I don't think it actuallyexists.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
There are similar products but I don't think that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
The dice aren't smart .

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
That's what they said in high school, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
You can use any die.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
My first invention was what I want the Switch 2 to
be, which is you got a handheldconsole they can plug a card
into, but it has a built in LEDprojector where, wherever you
set it up, it then becomes aprojector to play on any surface
.
It's like I want a Game Boy Ican project on a movie theater
screen and just play, becausethat'd be awesome.
So that's my first new.

(01:31:43):
Because that'd be awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
So that's my first new invention, because that'd be
sick.
That would be insane.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
And my second invention is how can I put this?
I really want to make I thinkI've told you this before for
working on board game acharacter tracker that basically
uses crib pens, and it's like anice wooden character tracker
that you use to track your statsin a board game.
I don't know, I just think it'dbe neat to make one of those,

(01:32:12):
but classy.
It's less of an inventionthough.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
I mean, that's true, I've seen a variety of different
character tracker items inboard games, but the crib-style
board would be pretty nice.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
And I think that's that and with that, thank you
everybody for tuning in toRichard and Carl Bitch About
Dragon Ball Dyma and may thehybus be with you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
And self-care hydrate .
You know exercise.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
And praise Supreme Overlord Majin Koo Koo.
2024, got my vote.
I love the line.
I was like wait, is he actuallygoing to be really good at this
?
Show was worth it for him alone.
Bye, Bye.

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Episode 99: Dragon Ball Daima we stan Majin Kuu in this household.

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