Five Needles, One Angry Customer, And A Moon-Sized Sword

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Good afternoon, Internet.
And if it's not the afternoon, Iguess you have to take a nap
until it is to listen to thisepisode.
I'm Richard, the cocky member ofRichard and Carl presents Team
Space and Dragons.

SPEAKER_03 (00:14):
Uh and I am uh Carl.
Uh I I don't have any roosters,so you're a chicken.
Oh man, I saw a YouTube video.
Um it was like uh talking aboutthe classic joke, why did the
chicken cross the road uh to getto the other side.

(00:37):
Right.
And a lot of people think thatit's just like the joke is that
there is no joke.
But when you think about it, ifit's a busy road, if if if it's
a busy road, the chicken mightget hit by a car and then pass
over to the other side.

SPEAKER_04 (00:53):
With that, I begrudgingly pivot to what's new
with you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
Well, you know, I was I lost my last chicken the
other day, and you know, they'rethe gum!

SPEAKER_04 (01:08):
You know the thing is with the shenanigans you
give, this would be the firsttime our audience had heard that
you had chickens would be afterthey're dead.
Like I've only counted thosechickens before they hatched.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
I I've I've never owned any chickens.
I don't know that I'd be aresponsible chicken owner, but I
never have owned chickens, and Imost likely never will.
Um coward.
But uh But what is new with meuh is uh you know I I uh

(01:45):
somewhat recently had my myspleen taken out.
Um and you know that's uh We'renot allowed to give that away as
a prize.

SPEAKER_04 (01:52):
We uh we are very clear that we cannot give Carl's
remove spleen as a prize on ourpodcast.
Our lawyers say no.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
I mean I I just let it get incinerated.
Uh they they cut it off to makesure that there was nothing else
wrong with it, and they didn'tfind any problems and they
incinerated it, so But the pointis uh that your spleen is
apparently part of your immunesystem.

SPEAKER_04 (02:16):
I feel like people might know this, but then get uh
I mean no disrespect to ouraudience, but liter critical
literacy is not doing so hotright now.

SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
But so when you get your screen removed, they have
to give you some uh vaccinesagainst a variety of there's a
couple different viruses thatyour spleen specifically helps
protect you against.

SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Are you aware that vaccines have chemicals in them?

SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Yes, I am aware.

SPEAKER_04 (02:44):
Oh, then you may proceed.

SPEAKER_03 (02:47):
Uh so uh one of the the uh things that your spleen
helps protect you against ismeningitis.
Uh which is uh can cause likebrain infections and is
generally fatal because unlessyou're brain good.

SPEAKER_04 (03:04):
Pause.
I swear to Beerus, if you'reabout to tell me you have
meningitis right now in themiddle of our episode, I'm going
to lose it.

SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
No, no, no, no.
Um so pre-surgery, I had to uhgo get all these vaccines.
So they gave me four vaccines,well, two in each arm.
Uh and then uh they're like,yeah, so you'll you'll have to
uh come back for a uh seconddose of the meningitis vaccines.

(03:35):
The two of there was two ofthem.
Uh covered like six differentvariants of meningitis or
something like that.
Uh one of them was just calledlike W125.
Um, anyways, so they're like,yeah, you'll have to come back
in like two months for your yoursecond dose of meningitis
vaccines.
Uh and then after that, everyfive years you'll have to get

(03:56):
boosters for all these vaccines.

SPEAKER_04 (03:58):
Which you should do anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (04:00):
Right, right, right.
Um but so uh I uh was waitingand I'm waiting and I'm waiting
uh for them to call me to totell me that I'm gonna get my
second dose.
Uh then uh, you know, it hitsthe end of the second month, and
they haven't called me yet, andI'm like, oh I should probably

(04:23):
make sure that they are actuallygonna get my second dose.
Uh I had a follow-up appointmentwith my with the hematologist,
and I'm like, hey, uh likewhat's going on here?
I thought they were gonna callme.
Can you make sure that they'regonna get me this second dose
for the meningitis?
And the hematologist, like,yeah, sure, said no.

(04:43):
Uh and so then a couple dayslater I get a call from public
health and like, yeah, okay, wecan book you this day, this day,
or whatever.
I'm like, okay, cool.
Ah.
So then uh I it was a couplelike a week or so away, and I'm
going to work, and uh my boss,um when uh when COVID was

(05:04):
around, uh, they were veryparanoid and uh they you know
took like three months off tohide under their beds.

SPEAKER_05 (05:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
Um I don't fault them for social distancing.
I just, you know, the rest of uswere working, and it was like,
okay.
Um but so every every year it'salways like, oh, make sure you
get your flu shots, make sureyou get your covet shots, you
know, do all this, because theyare are rather paranoid about

(05:31):
it.

SPEAKER_04 (05:31):
It's like they're not wrong, but they're not aware
of their privileged status, iswhat I'm getting here.
Like everything they're doing iscorrect, but there is just that
like splash of irony given theircircumstances.

SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
Uh and so my boss is bugging me about getting the
like my flu shot, and I I Ibelieve in in vaccines, uh, but
I'm also lazy.
Uh so I I oftentimes don't getmy my flu shot.
I I really should.
I really should, but but it'slike, ah, but then I have to

(06:08):
like book an appointment, andthen I have to actually like go
to the appointment.
It's just the s the slightestbit of extra effort uh to get
something that you don't there'sno visible way to know that it
worked.
Because you know, if it works,you you don't get sick.
It's like Y2K where people arelike, yeah, nothing happened.
I'm like, no, no, what happenedis we stopped the world from

(06:30):
ending.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All all whole bunch of computersgot shipped to India to have
their reprogrammed so that thedate change wouldn't mess things
up.

SPEAKER_04 (06:39):
Uh anywho.
As I undercut your own argumentwith your own argument, please
continue.

SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
No, no, no.
I'm I I'm I'm not saying thatyou shouldn't get the your
vaccines for flu and your shotsfor flu and COVID and stuff.
Uh just that sometimes I'm justtoo lazy.
And I maybe I shouldn't admitthat on on air, but but uh yeah,
it's over now.
So I mean I was thinking aboutasking the uh public health if

(07:10):
maybe they could do my my flushot at the same time as the
meningitis shots.
I was like, yeah.
But uh again, I I was just justtoo lazy, didn't mention
anything.
Uh so then I get there, andthey're like, okay, yeah, we're
gonna do your meningitis shots.
Oh, and and we see um that youhaven't gotten your flu shot or

(07:33):
your COVID shot yet, so youshould probably get those too.
And we also see that you uhhaven't gotten your tetanus shot
since like 2013, it's currently2025.
You're supposed to get it every10 years.
How was I maybe they told me 10years ago I was supposed to get
it, but probably.
Probably.

(07:54):
So uh we're gonna give you yourtetanus shot too.
So uh we're gonna do three inone arm uh and two in the other.

SPEAKER_04 (08:05):
Isn't that what they did to awaken Deadpool's X gene?

SPEAKER_03 (08:14):
Well unfortunately, I did not get Deadpool's
Awakened X-Gene.
Uh my arm, particularly the onethat had the three vaccines put
into it, uh, you know, they didthe three vaccines in the one
arm, and then they're doing thetwo vaccines in the other arm,
and the one vaccine actuallylike like it really hurt as they
were putting it in, and I waslike, oh man, that arm's gonna
be like super sore.

(08:35):
Uh that arm was fine like thenext day, not even sore a little
bit, but the arm that had thethree vaccines put in it that
didn't hurt at all, uh, was sorefor like a week and a half.
That was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05 (08:47):
Oof.

SPEAKER_03 (08:50):
But the moral of the story is uh don't don't be lazy.
Uh just go and get your flu andCOVID shots.
Um because you know, I mean, Iguess speaking as a Canadian,
because I need to pause you forone second.

SPEAKER_04 (09:06):
To all those listening to Richard and Carl
present Deep Space and Dragons,we are a pop comedy podcast,
occasionally about pop culture.
Please consult actualprofessionals about anything we
say.
If we say go get a flu shot,that does not mean we, as
experts, are telling you youshould medically do this.
I am not getting sued for peopledying to blue shots.

(09:29):
We are a comedy podcast.
Do not take medical advice offSpotify.
Full stop.
Don't take it off YouTube, fullstop.
Understand?
Yeah, we good?
Okay, please continue.

SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yeah, but I mean uh in Canada, uh nationally, the
flu shot is for sure free.
Uh the COVID vaccine, I'm I'mI'm not sure if it's probably
nationally.

SPEAKER_04 (09:56):
I mean, I'm a student.
Well, like as a student, I don'tpay for shit, right?
So I just go to the on-campusclinic and then they just
medicine me.
Like, they don't even check myhealthcare card.
They're like, oh yeah, you're astudent.
Enjoy your drugs, it's great.

SPEAKER_03 (10:08):
Yeah, but but I mean, like, during COVID times,
Alberta did some weird thingsand they started like charging
people for the COVID tests andstuff, so I don't know for sure
that like Alberta has free inCOVID.

SPEAKER_04 (10:20):
To be fair, Alberta's out here arguing that
transgender people don't existwhen they've been in the Bible
from the start.
Like, Alberta is just not doinggreat right now, guys.
You're like, this isn't a thing,and I'm like, Zeus turned into a
swan, and you can't comprehendthe idea of comprehensive sex ed
in your classrooms.
Gilgamesh had this shit figurenow.

(10:42):
Come on, grow up.

SPEAKER_03 (10:45):
In any event, uh, it's especially if you live in
Canada.

SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
Disclaimer, I'm a comedy podcast, don't sue me,
Alberta.

SPEAKER_03 (10:54):
So since we have universal health care, the flu
and COVID shots are most likelyfree.
Uh, so aside from leaving it.

SPEAKER_04 (11:09):
Unless you need glasses or teeth for some
reason.
Because why would you need tosee or eat?

SPEAKER_03 (11:16):
Yeah, those are optional.
Uh uh.

SPEAKER_04 (11:25):
But uh that's uh that that's I mean, I guess it'd
be a little a little pizza storeanecdote, but Well, we could go
what's new with me as I go pizzastore, or we can go straight to
pizza store.
Your choice.

SPEAKER_03 (11:38):
Uh no, you would what what's new with you there,
Richard?

SPEAKER_04 (11:41):
So, we had a brief chat outside of stream, but long
story short, I went andpresented at my first academic
conference last week.
And I was presenting onposthumanism and the ghosts of
the shell.
And I'm now gonna spend the nexthour of this two podcasts
explaining post-humanism.
No, but what happened was so Igive my presentation, and I'm

(12:04):
like, okay, I did this, I gotthe screenshots, I met some of
my colleagues, I'm planning toapply to a PhD at this campus,
and it seems like a good idea togo do the thing.
So I give my presentation, and Ididn't think much interesting
would happen after that.
I got my free bagel sandwiches.
The day was objectively asuccess.
But then this older academiccomes up and he's like, I gay I

(12:25):
am the reason anime is in NorthAmerica.
I was part of this society, theguy that's things transported.
I wrote several papers andthesis about this symbology, and
and like I seem to havetriggered this man's special
interest.
And he starts talking about thedifferent kanji choices for
ghost and why they went with theEnglish ghost, and the idea of
ghost in the show meaning likeforeigner on the outside,

(12:46):
Japanese in the in- Like, hegives me this amazing talk on
this movie, and I'm just like,you know, I thought I understood
this on account of presenting onit.
But my mind just got blown, andI realized something, Carl.
There's many good things inlife.
There's eating, there'sdrinking, there's adult
relations, there's lots ofthings.

(13:06):
I think the single best feelingin the world is an elderly
academic coming and validatingyour speech and telling you why
your special interest isimportant and cool.
Like, imagine you just go upthere and you give a speech on
like let's say you went down themusic professor path and you
give a speech on the ClaireObscure soundtrack, for s for
example, and then someone justcomes up as like, and here's why

(13:26):
video game soundtracks are vitalto human survival, and gives it
like a massive in-depth deepdive into what you just said and
why it's important.
It's a truly, truly beautifulmoment.
So, between that and grading, Iget to be a bit smug because
like a lot of my classmates, wehave our little Discord server
for chatting and small talk andmemes and planning things,

(13:48):
right?
And I'm watching people postlike four in the morning, three
thousand words left, five in themorning, almost done.
So people are doing their likeall-nighter papers like you do
in grad school.

unknown (14:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (14:00):
And I finished like a week early, so I should be
being smug.
But I'm also paid to writethings, including stat blocks.
So I'm like, haha, suckers, Wadestill be writing your paper.
Also up at three in the morningwriting.
There's just something deeplyironic being like, yeah, you
guys suck.
I finished early.

(14:21):
Then why are you doing the samething we're doing?
Oh, because I also do this forprofit and for fun, so I am
doing the same thing as you.
The only reason I'm ahead of youis so like a clear time to
continue to suffer.
It's great.
That is pretty funny.
It's like, wait, why are youawake to be commenting?
Well, the thing is, I'm doingthe same thing.

(14:42):
And then this week we had ourholiday party, which was lovely.

SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Ooh, holidays.

SPEAKER_04 (14:49):
So, most of our cohort actually show up for
events, which I've never hadhappen before.
Like the idea that in your classof twenty that fifteen would
come to a thing is actuallywild.

SPEAKER_03 (15:02):
That is a majority of people, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 (15:04):
Yeah, so I learned a interesting thing.
So I learned a new party game,which is fun.
Oh?
So how it works is you use likea list generator to generate a
random list of people that arethere.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
The person below you on thelist, you text them or whisper
to them a question.

(15:24):
They then have to say theanswer.
A coin is flipped to know if thegroup gets to know what the
question was.
And it's simple, but it'sbeautiful, because say, for
example, I were to be like, Carlwith a baseball bat.
And it's like, I really need toknow what the question was.
Because that answer is like thequestion.

(15:47):
It's like, would you defend it'slike, would you defend Carl with
your life?
And be like, yeah, I defend Carlwith a baseball bat.
Great answer.
But the question was like, howwould you who would you be most
likely to murder murder?
And I said Carl with a baseballbat.
Very different.
So you start like starting todesign these questions to like
have maximum implication in casepeople don't know what it was.

(16:07):
Right, right, right.
Because like a simple question,like who's the tallest person
here when it's out of context,can really mess with people?
And then, yeah, so food, drinks,partying, etc.
All of my gra I should begetting my grades back shortly.
I finished my PhD applicationpacket, had people read over

(16:30):
that, it's looking good.
I finished my stat blocks atlike three in the morning on
Wednesday, and then polishedthem up today.
So I am like happy, healthy, andalive.
For now.
And I got invited on myprofessor's podcast where they
talk about game narratives,which is cool.
So I have to play throughExpedition 33 again so I can

(16:51):
talk about it informed andintelligibly.
Because that's like our podcast,actual people listen to that
one.
I say on our podcast.

(17:12):
I don't want to get caughtsaying something scandalous.
I avoid social media.
And then there's me where I'mlike, there is 800 hours of me
staying scandalous shit recordedon the internet.
Try to find it if you dare.
Yes, I probably say things thatcan get me cancelled, but you
gotta listen to me talk aboutWorld Trigger for an hour first.

(17:34):
Even the AI is gonna be like, Ithink he just had views on the
gaza strip that could get himcancelled, but it's in the
middle of this talk about bleachsaw Bactos.
Yeah.
Alright, so pizza antidote time,sir.
Yes, pizza antidote.
It was a typo, and I'm not theantidote.
The antidote to their s theirproblems.

(17:54):
Nothing makes you happier thanyour job you're working, than
hearing about people dying infront of Carl's pizzeria on a
random Tuesday.

SPEAKER_03 (18:01):
Oh, no, no, nobody's you know dying or whatever.
Uh, but like, um this time.
Still Well, no, so we're uh oneof the places that's open the
latest in in the city.

SPEAKER_04 (18:16):
I agree, it's a problem.
It's borderline unethical.
But so uh, you know, we're notopen 24 hours.
At this point, you should justcommit and be open 24 hours.
Like, honestly.
What's the point of not being atthat stage?

SPEAKER_03 (18:34):
Well, I mean, after you know, 2 a.m.
or 4 a.m.
you until like, you know, yeah,I'd actually normally open the
next day.
There's not a whole lot goingon.
They would basically just bepeople cleaning overnight.
Cleaning overnight and kickingout homeless people.
That's that's the thing aboutthis the job, the that's where
the panic piece anecdote isactually going.

SPEAKER_04 (18:56):
It's like Oh, I need to make a mini uh mini monologue
first.
No one's talking about how inPokemon Legends ZA they put in
like anti-homeless architecture,like the benches and things have
like the anti-homeless bars andspikes.
Which is so funny to me to belike, I'm in a Pokemon world.
You can't sleep for free on thisbench in a Pokemon world.
Yeah, we have standardizedhealthcare, but get a job.

(19:18):
The rest of us are out herePokemon battling like real
adults.

SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
Uh well, there is a theory uh that the city was
designed that way todeliberately lower the
population and increase uhpopular dense population density
so that more people get sick,and then when they leave the
city they spread the virus andkill more of the population.

SPEAKER_04 (19:41):
Oh no.
That was not where I thoughtthat was going.
So please continue with yourpizza story.

SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Well, so I don't know, it probably sounds similar
to other stories I've toldbefore, but it's like the guy
comes in not ordering orderingpizza.
Uh He's just sitting there.
Um, eventually it's like, okay,he's he's falling asleep.
So I go up there and I'm like,hey, you know, like, you can't
sleep, dude.
He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,okay.

(20:10):
And it's like, can I like likefive more minutes or whatever?
And he's like, Alright.
You've been here for like anhour.
I'll give you like five moreminutes, but then I'm coming to
like kick you out, man.
Um and I look at this guy, anduh his one leg uh is like
awkwardly straight, like he haslike a knee injury or something,

(20:32):
like his leg won't bendproperly.

SPEAKER_04 (20:34):
And then he's an assassin that attacks of combat
crutches, like in that shortstory you were working on,
right?
No, remember with the guy whodied to see somebody's DNA base
stats using magical fireflies,that's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 (20:47):
No, uh he didn't have his battle crutches with
him, I'm I'm lucky, I guess.
Uh because when I go to uh wakehim up in five minutes, um he
you know, he's just trying tosay, Oh, give me like five more
minutes, I'm like, no, no, youneed to leave, like, please
leave.
And it's kind of been mystrategy lately, uh, when people

(21:08):
refuse to leave, as I'll justlike stand there, and anytime
they say anything or you knowthey're not getting up or
anything, I just say, Pleaseleave, sir, or please leave,
ma'am, or whatever.
That makes sense.
And and this guy, like, he says,Okay, I'll leave, but his eyes
are closed, and he hasn't evenmade any motions to like get up
at all.
And I'm like, you know, pleaseleave, sir.

(21:29):
He's like, Oh, but I've beenshot like 56 times, and uh my
I've like I'm like paralyzedfrom laying down, and it's like
you know, just please leave.
And it's like I I don't care,please leave.
And he's like then he you knowopens his eyes, he's starting to
get annoyed at me because I'mrepeatedly just saying, please
leave.
Um and he's like, Oh, you'reabout to get smacked! Uh that's

(21:53):
a knocking.
He's like, You need to get outof my way so I can get up and
leave.
It's like I'm not standing inyour way, just please leave.
He's like, Oh, I'm gonna hityou! And then he like leaps to
his feet way faster than Ithought he'd possibly.

SPEAKER_04 (22:05):
Can I make a really tasteless joke here?
Yeah.
Good thing you got all yourvaccines before this happened.

SPEAKER_03 (22:14):
Please continue.
I I didn't get my rabies shot,so I I I was I was in mortal
danger for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (22:23):
They're such problematic about those stigmas.

SPEAKER_03 (22:26):
But moving on.
No, I uh he did get up quite abit faster than than I thought
he possibly could.
Come back.
And uh Then he's like, oh yeah,I'm gonna call my cousin and
he's gonna come and like beatyou guys up, and like I was
like, oh okay.
But the real point of the storyis like after I like I just

(22:48):
retreated behind the counter.
Uh he couldn't get through thetiny space that we have to get
through, so because his leg wasactually injured in some way.
I don't know if it was from agunshot wound or not.

SPEAKER_04 (22:59):
Um I mean, are you concerned that your restaurant
is where people come to die likea sad cat under the porch?

SPEAKER_03 (23:08):
Obviously, this whatever wound it was that
caused his leg, leg injury, uhhad long mostly healed?
I don't know, I don't know.
Obvious like permanent damage, Iguess, but uh he was not like
currently bleeding out oranything.

SPEAKER_04 (23:26):
He didn't this he was just I picture in the final
scene of Cowboy Bebop right now,spoilers.
Where he just does the bag thingand then it cuts away.

SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
He was he was like his shoes uh had no shoelaces.
Uh so it was like really likedirty in this, like he just
kinda generally looked like ahomeless person and he's fallen
asleep and he's all mad that I'mtrying to kick him over sleeping
in our street.

SPEAKER_04 (23:54):
And this is the story of how you met John
Legend.

SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
No, no, I he uh he gets up and he starts yelling at
me that I'm a piece of shit andwhatever, and I'm just I walk to
the back and then just leave thesituation and he just angrily
stomps out.
Um but it really makes mewonder, like he doesn't even
know you.

SPEAKER_04 (24:13):
He doesn't have the evidence to know you're a piece
of shit yet.

SPEAKER_03 (24:17):
Yeah.
Uh but I mean most of the thehomeless people that I end up
having to kick out uh have thissentiment towards me that that
because I'm not allowing them tosleep in our business overnight,
uh, then I'm a piece of garbage.
Yeah.
Um you are sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (24:33):
You could just let them sleep there overnight.

SPEAKER_03 (24:39):
I suppose I could.
We could turn we could turn ourpizza store into a homeless
shelter.
That's you could.

SPEAKER_04 (24:45):
Like, objectively speaking, you could.
Yeah, I'm sure that have nostressor ramifications, and your
quality of life would improvedrastically if you turned your
place of business that earns youcommerce just into a shelter
because you could.
The logistics are so funny forwhat people consider ethical and

(25:07):
unethical, right?
Because it's like you could makethat argument that, yeah, every
business should just turn itselfinto a shelter.
It's like it's true.
But you're also the same peoplewho would call the cops if you
walked into the pizzeria and sawthis guy.
Like, the same people who'd giveyou, hey, you could just do
that, would then proceed tonever shop there again.
Yeah, I think that's a good one.

(25:27):
And then you'd go broke, andthen you could no longer do
that.

SPEAKER_03 (25:31):
The risk of just like finding a used needle on
the floor, most people wouldprobably not come into our shop
if we just let home a lot of thehomeless people in our
neighborhoods stick around.
Like it's just Yeah.
But unfortunately.
Um but I do always kinda wonderthough, like this guy saying
that he was gonna like call hiscousins to like do whatever.

(25:53):
It's like, hmm.
This like one of these days, amI am I just gonna like kick out
the wrong person and then uhthen they actually like will be
like like you hear those storiesabout the the poor guy that goes
to a bank to like open a bankaccount and gets refused, and it
turns out the guy behind him isone of the bank's biggest

(26:14):
customers and gets upset withhow they treat the the homeless
guy and and like destroys thebank's reputation because he
didn't like their customerservice towards uh homeless
people are like 40 years agowhen people Well, maybe like 40
years ago when human beings wereslightly more empathetic, that
might work.

SPEAKER_04 (26:33):
But we're in this weird situation where both the
people on both sides of thisequation have kind of just
degraded to being shittierpeople.
Like let's put it this way.
If someone's so down on theirluck that they have to bleed out
in your pizzeria, clearly theirsupport system isn't gonna come
get revenge.
Because if they cared enoughabout this person for revenge,

(26:54):
they wouldn't be bleeding out inyour pizzeria.
Right?
Like the idea that there'ssystemic problems of housing,
support, shelters, is true.
But there's also systemicproblems of Oh man, I'm gonna
get me myself canceled.
This is why I bury thescandalous bits in the world,

(27:14):
trigger trigger trivia.
Is it's like there's obligationson all sides.
I was watching this specialabout homelessness in Japan, for
example.
So in Japan, they have a problemwhere a lot of people are
sleeping at internet cafesbecause it's cheaper than their
rent.

SPEAKER_03 (27:31):
Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (27:32):
But because of how they function culturally, they
leave those spaces cleaner thanthey entered them.

unknown (27:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (27:39):
So, because of like some cultural things, this is an
equally added like this could bean equally heroin-addicted, down
on their luck, unfortunateevents, homeless person.
But because of the culturalstandards towards cleansliness,
they're not leaving that roomcovered in literal shit.

(28:00):
However, Canada seems to be lesslike my favorite example is you
give somebody, because thisliterally happened to me, I gave
somebody a burger.
I ordered four burgers andthey're like, spare some change.
I'm like, you can have a burger.
I really did I you ordered fourbecause I used a coupon.
Right?
So I didn't lose any money andthey got a burger.

(28:21):
They ate the burger andimmediately throw the wrapper on
the ground ignoring the trashcan.
And I'm like, listen, no matterhow down on your luck you are,
and miserable and this that, youcould have used the trash can.
Like you made a conscious choiceto make your environment you're
sleeping in less cleanly.

SPEAKER_03 (28:40):
I mean that that's like one of the problems we have
at our store.
It's like, you know, we throwstuff in the trash and we have
to lock up our trash bin becauseuh people will go through it and
they'll just throw the garbageeverywhere and just make a huge
mess, and they won't even findanything of value because it's
pizza store trash.

SPEAKER_04 (29:00):
Like it's not the cake trash that has like steak
and lobster and things.

SPEAKER_03 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean, maybe they'll find an uh uneaten pizza
that's been covered with rottenvegetables and old dough.

SPEAKER_04 (29:14):
Like Well, it's like kindness is weird.
I always think about Bear Guywhen we worked at Redacted
Coffee, who's like, oh, I wantthese because I'm a nature
photographer and I want to takesome photos of animals.
And we're like, oh, okay, thatmakes sense.
You can have these old donuts,and then just leave a garbage
bag of old donuts outside ourparking lot.
We're like, well, why?

(29:35):
You could have just not did likewe helped you.
Yeah.
And that's that's what'sbreaking me, is like, people are
so thinking the world is againstthem, and I blame social media
literally looking at your eyetraffic and giving you
information that tells youpeople are against you at all
times.
That like, if you go into anyinteraction assuming everyone

(29:56):
there is against you, they thenwill become against you.
It's just weird.
That's I I'm not really here tofix this problem, but I am gonna
say, as bad as this sounds, Ohman, I'm getting so cancelled
from this episode.
If the same individual hadwalked into your pizzeria and
like, mind if I chill here for abit, and was just quietly,

(30:17):
peacefully sitting in theirchair, close their eyes for a
bit, you wouldn't have kickedthem out.
You would have given them a fairamount of time.
Around closing time, if youwent, hey, you gotta go, we're
locking up, they're like, okay,just left.
You'd probably let them chillthere the next day.
If they're just chilling, youdon't care.

SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
If they are just chillin', and like I said, I I
do have to go up and tell peoplethat they can't sleep.
Yeah.
Uh another homeless person, Ihad to tell them like three
times that they couldn't sleepthere, and the third time, they
like literally tried to sprawlout across three chairs.
Uh, and then they're like, oh,what did I do wrong?
Why are you kicking me out?
Oh.
And uh, you know, they wouldn'tactually even respond to the

(30:54):
please leave.
I I you know said that to themfor like five minutes.
I was like, okay, I'm gonna callthe cops, and then uh talk.

SPEAKER_04 (31:01):
Like, that's like the imbalance where I'm like,
I'm always fighting for socialsystems.

SPEAKER_03 (31:08):
Yeah, the police will be here shortly.

SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Right?
Like, I'm always fighting forsocial systems.
I believe tax the rich, givebetter social systems to the
poor, society survives, trickleout, and economics is a lie,
capitalism is an evil, yada yadayada.
Like, I've given enoughmanifestos.
But there's also the socialcontract.
So it's freezing outside, andyou're willing to let someone
come in to warm up.

(31:31):
There is a certain level of, oh,you should have some mild
gratitude that you letnon-paying customers in there in
the first place instead of justconstantly pushing your luck one
step at a time.
Right?
Because it's like you're like,please don't take a nap on my
floor.
Doesn't feel like anunreasonable request.

(31:52):
And it's just weird to mebecause like you're already
given more kindness than youactually needed to.
Like, let's use an example of Iheld I don't know if I told you
this story, but I needed to holda cohort dagger heart game.

(32:12):
A second one.
Okay.
So the campus was largely closedbecause we were on like mostly
holiday mode.
So I wanted to find a venue tohold it that was accessible to
all players and wasn't my homein.
I live like two hours away frommy location, I spend most of my
time in.
No one is taking two buses and atrain to visit me in my cave.

(32:34):
And I'd have to clean it up.

SPEAKER_03 (32:35):
And I mean Toronto's not quite as bad as New York,
but a lot of people just don'thave cars because parking is a
is a hassle.

SPEAKER_04 (32:44):
So I end up booking at this beautiful cafe, which I
almost want to name drop becausethey're actually delightful.
So I think I am.
They're called Bampon.
They're not a sponsor, they'rejust a delightful.
They call themselves like ananti-cafe where it's designed
for you to chill there.
They charge you like an houryou're late, but give you just
keep giving you tea.

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (33:06):
So like I call them, like, oh, I want to book for
like five hours with a group oflike seven people.
Can I just chill here for fivehours with seven people?
And they're like, absolutely,but we do charge an hourly rate.
Makes sense.
So we play this game, the sevenof us, play Daggerheart, for
like five hours.
We did a session zero, we madeit most of the way through the

(33:27):
campaign.
They rescued the Ly- They failedto rescue- No, they rescued Lyra
in this scenario.
But one of them just got eatenby the sea serpent, and like
they chose to avoid death, sothey just washed up on a beach
and they found them later.

SPEAKER_03 (33:40):
So so for context, we uh we do have another podcast
where Richard and I playDaggerheart.
Um and uh we've been releasingthe each episode as a uh free uh
mini-adventure on itch.io.
What is that?
You did the product placementperfectly.

SPEAKER_04 (33:59):
I'm so proud of you.
So, also just if you ever needto find any of my stuff, just
Google my name and you will findit.
I have a big internet footprint.
Anywho, like we can literally goRichard Author Brampton and
it'll find me, which ishilarious.

SPEAKER_03 (34:17):
I haven't tried to Google myself in a while.
I I assume that this isbasically my only internet
footprint.
That and the one picture onFacebook of me in a in a purple
leopard print shirt beingcarried by my brother-in-law.

SPEAKER_04 (34:29):
Yes.
So, anywho, I was goingsomewhere with this kind of
sort.
So we're playing our daggerheart game, and we get to the
end of it, and we ordered like athree-tier like snack carafe, so
it was like little sandwiches,hummus, snacky things, right?
And then I go to like cash outat the end, and it came to$200
total.
$200 split across seven peoplefor five hours of

(34:50):
entertainment's actually liketwenty bucks person, it's a
really good deal.
Yeah.
And it's interesting because Iwas thinking how this where I
would why this ties in at all isA, I wanted to give them some
customers because like that'sjust a delightful business model
of yes, you sit here, we justkeep giving you tea, and if you
order an alcoholic drink, theywaive the hourly fee.

(35:14):
Okay, okay.
So it's like there's like theone dude working there that's
just like, yeah, hang out, chat,play board games.
I'm like, this was a greatvenue.
10 out of 10.
But also, like if we look atthis logistically, so this place
was designed for us to chill fora long time.
If someone comes into your placeof business, which is not

(35:34):
designed to chill for a longtime at all, you're already not
charging them an hourly rate.
Not like rotating them.
So, like, the fact that you'reallowing people to just chill
there for as until it becomesliterally impractical is funny
because this your reward fordoing that is aggression when
you tell people they cannot takeadvantage of that.

(35:56):
It's just that slippery slopeargument where it's like, oh,
the argument a lot of peopleleaning towards particular
groups will be like, if you givethem an inch, they'll take a
mile.
If you let them live in tents,they'll live there forever.
I'm like, that's a terribletoxic argument that seems to be
logistically true.
Which is unfortunate.
I hate whenever someone makes anargument that assumes human

(36:18):
beings will be the worst, andthen I go out to argue like, no,
they won't be the worst, andthen they proceed to be the
worst anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (36:25):
Well, yeah, so like uh some of my co-workers live in
the area around my work.
Uh, and there was just like ahomeless encampment along a
path, like, near a field orwhatever.
And the city had to like cutdown all the trees in the area
so that people could stopstringing their tarps across the
trees.
Uh and so then this one guy, uh,he's like, No, I'm really not

(36:48):
leaving.
And so he started stringing histarp on the hanging his tarp on
the power lines because you knowthey can't cut down the power
lines.

SPEAKER_04 (36:57):
And it's like the obvious solution is build
shelters, and then people arelike, Well, who's gonna pay for
those?
And I'm like, tax meta pointzero zero zero zero zero zero
one percent if we're can supportevery homeless person in Canada.
What are we talking about?
It's like, yeah, if we tax metalike a single percentage point,
we can just end homelessness.
It's ridiculous the wealth'sinequality in North America

(37:18):
right now.
I know, I know our listeners aregonna fact check me and do the
math, but I guarantee you thatmath isn't gonna be more than
10% of Meta's gross earning inCanada.
Tell you that right now.

SPEAKER_05 (37:28):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 (37:29):
I would love for our comments to be like, um,
actually, Richard, you ignorantasshole, you would have to tax
them 7%, not 5.
Idiot.
And like that's still you verymuch prove my point.
Maybe tax a second corporationthen if the numbers aren't
adding up.
Maybe a third.

SPEAKER_03 (37:44):
Uh but uh you uh I uh didn't have any ideas.

SPEAKER_04 (37:51):
Oh, yeah, I was gonna talk about Oh, I was gonna
talk about World Trigger.
Uh I was just gonna aggressivelytalk about World Trigger.
Well, we had a conversationoff-stream that I thought was
gonna be a good episode topic.
Is that we were talking aboutpacing and show and jump.
So for a little bit of context,in our disc in my Discord server

(38:12):
with my classmates, someoneposted a hey, we should do a
slideshow uh event whereeveryone gives a 15-minute
slideshow on their specialinterests, everyone has to sit
there and endure it.
And I was wondering what myslideshow would be about.
Because I need it to besomething I care about, but also
something I kind of force peopleto engage with against their
will.
Because most of my specialinterests are legitimately

(38:34):
interesting.
But the conversation you hadabout pacing and showing anime,
I'm like, yes, this is afantastic special interest topic
of how you paced your show andhow it's changed over the years,
changing the effect showen hasis like such a hyper niche
specific PowerPoint where Istart breaking down

(38:56):
protagonists, antagonists, andcharacter arcs over time to make
argument whether or not Showenjump has gotten worse because
their media's gotten s betterstorytelling, but it's more
condensed, so it doesn't havethe same social buildup to it.
Cause, like the refresher wherewe started was I made a bold
claim that yes, I'm mad at WorldTrigger.

(39:18):
Because they decided to doswitch from weekly to monthly,
which I approve of.
Every show and jump manga shouldbe monthly, so they're not
recommending spinal surgeons toeach other.
Right.
We killed the Hunter Hunter guy.
Like, he's lost movement in hisleft arm.
Cause he simply could not do it.

SPEAKER_03 (39:37):
Really, he is that unwell.

SPEAKER_04 (39:39):
Yeah, like he took a lot of spinal damage and then
shows up, writes five chaptersbecause we keep demanding it of
him, and then vanishes againonce he's renewed his health
benefits allegedly.
But like, the idea that you'dhave Oda, who's writing a
billion-dollar franchise,actually physically drawing it
every week is sort of insane.

SPEAKER_05 (39:58):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
And he has like his four assistants.
I'm like, I'm surprised he drawsanything.
I would just be telling peopleto draw these characters for me
at this point.
I'd give them stick figures andsay get to work.
Mm-hmm.
But the idea was that give themstoryboards.
Yep.
Where World Trigger's problemwas that it went from week
months uh weekly to monthlyaround the same time it started

(40:20):
as particularly slow plot arc.
I assume you can agree with mewith that.

SPEAKER_03 (40:26):
Yeah, the the bottle test.
Uh like World Trigger is hasalways been one of the most uh
bureaucratic action series thatit's ever been written.

SPEAKER_04 (40:38):
Uh and bottle test is bureaucratic shown in action
series.
I think that part's relevant.
Because something like Attack onTitan isn't quite shown in its
closer descendant, and you canfind more of these like
bureaucracies.
But World Trigger isspecifically still a show and
jump series at its heart.
You look at the age of theprotagonist, what were the three
show and jump themes?

(40:58):
It was like friendship, victory,and something else.
They like literally have like athree-core theme just supposed
to write on.
I'll look that up while you talkabout World Trigger.

SPEAKER_03 (41:09):
I'll look it up.
So, yeah.
Um the the bottle test is justlike the epitome of um like it's
it's something that wouldgenerally be like glazed over in
like a a TV show or uh morefast-paced series where it would

(41:30):
just be like, and this is theresult of this bottle test, but
instead we're painstakinglywatching um the higher-ranked uh
members of border like gothrough and grade each of the
lower-ranked members'performances and allocating
points and and and writingessays and and uh then they're

(41:51):
like teaching them how to usethis uh virtual game like
fighting system, uh so that theycan learn the concepts, which
will then eventually apply tothe arc that we're getting to
now, uh, where they're actuallylike doing hands-on training uh
uh mock battle uh using theselike try-on soldiers that they

(42:12):
were learning how to create inthe this bottle test.

SPEAKER_04 (42:16):
So, yeah, the trio is friendship, effort, and
victory.
And World Tracker definitelyhits those more than like say
Attack on Titan or Berserk orsomething, right?
Because it's like, yeah, it'sabsolutely about friendship.
Like the core thing is Osumu'sentire superpowers, he's a good
friend.
Effort, yeah.
He's specifically the crappiestshow and jump protagonist.

(42:39):
But instead of a lot of show andjump that loves to be like,
Naruto's the crappiest, but hehas a super mode, uh, Asta has
the worst magic, except it'sactually the best magic.
Instead, like Osumu actuallyjust sucks.
Which was the plot twist, is hejust sucks.
And then the third theme isVictory and Triumph, where I'm
like, yeah, it's all about thelittle victories.

(43:00):
So like World Trigger arguablyhits that better than like
anything.
Like it those are definitelywhat the series is about.

SPEAKER_03 (43:09):
Right.
So they're definitely makingpainstaking effort to show the
effort that the characters areare making to achieve their
goals.

SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
Yeah, so it's like absolutely about friendship
effort and victory.
Like, that is in fact what WorldTrigger is about.
Or you look at something likeJujutsu Kaisen and you're like,
yeah, friendship, oop, I killedthese characters to be edgy.
Effort, yeah, he worked hard atbeing born genetically superior.
Victory, yeah, he wins via asspull.
And I'm like, huh.

(43:39):
But like you look at likeNaruto, for example.
Naruto's another one that's thesupposed to be the epitome of
those themes.
It is a story about an underdogcompeting against a genius to
win back his best friend andbecome king of the ninjas.
But it's undercut because he wonthe genetic lottery.

SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
That he did.

SPEAKER_04 (44:01):
I'll say Dragon Ball.
I'd say Dragon Ball fits itperfectly, and Dragon Ball Z
just throws it out the window.
Dragon Ball is about friendshipeffort and victory.

SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
That's that's definitely true.

SPEAKER_04 (44:17):
Especially like when you Dragon Ball doesn't really
start until we get to Roshi.

SPEAKER_03 (44:22):
But then again, it's, you know, like you say,
that's the the pacing.
Um because modern show and jump.
Uh there's actually like uh Ithink they call it the chapter
19 curse or something like that.
Yep.
Uh, where uh I don't know whatmetrics they use to decide which

(44:44):
series need to be canceled.
Uh but uh a lot of series don'tmake it past chapter 19 because
Shonen Jump has decided thatthey're not uh embodying those
uh ideals quickly enough.
I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_04 (44:59):
It's probably they don't have i I almost guarantee
it's because they don't get ananime deal on the table by then.
Like that's my conspiracy theoryis around chapter 19, studios
will probably start talkingwhether or not they want to do
anything with the property.

SPEAKER_05 (45:12):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (45:13):
So it's funny, like, with this frame and looking at
how series go, like I said, Imade the bold claim a while back
that if World Trigger runs aslong as One Piece, this arc will
be good.
If it doesn't run as long asNaruto Bleach are One Piece, it
would be a sad note to end on.
Because this is where a lot ofseries come to an end around

(45:34):
this point.
We kind of like did this onstream where we were talking
like this is where Naruto shiftsto Shipuden.
This is where Dragon Ball shiftsto Z, I think, or might be
around King Piccolo orsomething.
Where Bleach goes toVolbringer's left.
No, like I think if it's Bleach,it would have been the end of
Soul Society.

SPEAKER_03 (45:55):
Uh yeah, I'm I'm really curious about uh when
does Dragon Ball Z actuallystart?
How many chapters does DragonBall have?

SPEAKER_04 (46:02):
Yeah, what's interesting too, like, is part
of what brought up my worldtrigger reimagining is the first
three seasons gettingreanimated.
It's so wild because I'm like,there's you're not doing One
Piece, you're not doing Bleach.
Well, I guess One Piece ishaving that happened.
It's like you're not bringingback Bleach, you're not bringing
back Naruto, you're not doinglike there's like a lot of

(46:24):
series that didn't get a firstseason or got a botch first
season that baffles me thatWorld Trigger get priority over.
But also Siren is getting ananimated series now.

SPEAKER_03 (46:36):
Uh so Dragon Ball has 194 chapters, um, and then
the series continues after thatas Dragon Ball Z.
Uh, which is to say that, no, Ithink World Trigger is somewhere
around 200 chapters.
Um World Trigger.
Somewhere World Trigger's at 259right now?

(46:57):
Yeah.
So, um Yeah, in terms of numberof chapters, uh, again, this is
about where Naruto switches toship it in.
Um so for a long-running seriesthat has uh 400 plus chapters,
uh between 200 and 300 isusually around the time where

(47:21):
there there is another pivot, Iguess.
Because I uh I always say my mynumber is about 150, is where
there's usually a tonal shift.
Uh but maybe maybe that'sactually even closer to the
modern pacing where where itused to be around 200 to 300 and
now it's shortened that peopleshift their tone early.

SPEAKER_04 (47:43):
Because of ADHD.
Well, see, like in my idealscenario, what I'd love to
happen is we have this battleroyale, right?
And then after the battleroyale, they go in the ship, and
then the next chapter starts up,it's like seven years later, and
they're on an alien planet, andeveryone's aged up by like five
years because they've been onthe adventure this long.

(48:04):
That would be sick.
Like, I'd love me like a timeskip and they're just in the uh
on an alien planet, we're justgetting into it would be
amazing.
I am a little concerned it'lljust end with them leaving on
the ship and that's where theywrap the series up, but uh what
alleviated my fear that thebattle royale is gonna be the
end of the series and like it'sgonna go for a long time, is why

(48:26):
would you bother reanimating thefirst three seasons if the
battle royale was the ending ofthe show?
Right?
Like that would be like, oh,they're clearly want to double
down in events back in it.
The strategy is if you thinkthis is going for a long time.
Cause it simply wouldn't beworth animating the bottle test
by itself.
That's my like conspiracy theoryis like, oh yeah, we're gonna

(48:48):
reanimate those first threeseasons because we're not just
gonna release the bottle test.
We're gonna cut that down tolike 12 episodes of bottle test,
and then do a 12 episode longfight scene tournament of power
style.

SPEAKER_05 (48:59):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (49:00):
I mean, that's what I mean.
I love the tournament of power.
People are like, that's stupid.
I'm like, no, no, you said 48episodes, and then at the end of
the episode you're like 47episodes minutes remaining.
Like, this is great.
You only get to do this once,but this is great.
You're gonna like actually dolike the Okay.
I I was proud of them.
They also did original characterdesigns for like all 80

(49:22):
combatants.
I'm like, oh, you're actuallydoing this, okay.

SPEAKER_05 (49:25):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (49:26):
I mean, Dragon Ball Z is famously unbalanced as a
series, so like power levels andthings make no sense.
Right.
But conceptually, just doing thebig tournament's cool.
Like, I've been watching ananimated series called Record of
Ragnarok.
And the concept is the gods andhumans are having an elimination

(49:46):
tournament to see if Ragnarokhappens and the world ends.

SPEAKER_03 (49:50):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (49:51):
And it they've had every season's like three fights
long.
Like they'll take their12-episode season and have like
two or three fights, and that'sit.
Because they have to show everycharacter's full backstory and
explain all of their nuance.
And what's wild is me and youare used to the idea that an
anime will start a tournamentand then give up halfway through
to the actual plot.

(50:11):
Right.
The show just seems to becommitted that all it's doing is
these ridiculous, slow-pacedfights, while they do Baki-esque
monologues about what'shappening.
And I'm all for it, because it'sbad entertainment, but I love
commitment to a bit.
Like the last fight wasBeelzebub versus Nikola Tesla.
Who had his Valkyrie partnerturn into Tesla armor that let
him like teleport in lightningpunch and things.

(50:36):
As Bielzebub, who is also Satan,was using like his B-sounding
vibration attacks to rip apartthe armor on Tesla.
And the show is impossible tosee who figure guess who will
win the fight.
I've You can't.
I swear they just flip a coin atthe end.

SPEAKER_03 (50:52):
They just flip a coin.

SPEAKER_04 (50:53):
Cause they like the thing is because every character
gets like an hour of backstory,it tricks your brain into
thinking either like you'relike, okay, now which one's
backstory makes them the moreimportant character, and you
like can't tell.
Yeah.
Because they spend the time toexplain why each person should
win before it uh for context,Tesla proceed to throw his super

(51:16):
electro-Tesla coil punch andthen cut off his other arm and
teleport it so he could punchthe person simultaneously on
both sides.
And I'm like, the fight's over,he got this! And then literal
Satan from the Bible takes thepunch, does like a spin, and
like does like a two-finger pokethrough the heart, and I'm like,
ah! Damn it, I was wrong.

(51:41):
Kind of teleporting your justyour arm so it punches someone
and they're just bleeding wherethe arm once was is awesome.
Not saying the show is good, I'msaying it's awesome.
There's a difference.

SPEAKER_03 (51:51):
But like.
Okay, but but so then, like,there's some series, uh, like in
in Shon and Jump.
If we're getting back to pacing,it's like uh the Shiba Inu
rooms.
Uh, the story story about uh agirl who's numb to horror.
I need to pause for a second.

SPEAKER_04 (52:12):
You could have given me a hundred guesses to figure
out which manga you talk aboutnext, and I would not have got
that.

SPEAKER_03 (52:19):
So it's about the girl who's numb to horror, uh,
and she moves into an apartmentthat's uh haunted by these ghost
dogs.
Uh but the ghost dogs can talkand they can interact with the
environment.
Um and it opens up basically,uh, she like moves into this
room and the dog in herapartment doesn't like her uh

(52:41):
because she's cursed, and he cansee the weird like uh snake
curses that has like four headsand and they actually have to
like call an exorcist to undoher curse.
Um and so it you know it hasthis like very shonen aspect of
of curses and exorcisms andwhatnot.
Like you did.
But it is just completelycommitted to the bit of these

(53:06):
cute dogs learning, like they'rejust being cute, stupid dogs
doing cute, stupid dog things.
Uh, and it's like I'm waitingfor this shonen plot to like
advance somewhere.
And they're just like, no, no,we're completely committed to
not doing the shonen plot in theshonen jump series.

SPEAKER_04 (53:25):
Like to follow up on that.
But yeah, to follow up on thatone, another series that could
have saved itself easily if itcommitted to having a plot.
Psychic detective Chosero neededto around 50 chapters and like
you I'm literally gonna give you50 straight chapters of fucking

(53:46):
around before you have a plothappen.
Like, I'd give Gitama 50chapters before it had to have a
plot.
But you gotta have a plot.
Like, psychic detective Chozerohad great characters, but he
needed a case that lasted morethan a chapter.
Oh, like my poor, poor detectiverom-com series that like ended,

(54:07):
and I guess I'll just besatisfied with it, where it's
like, we're gonna make it into aharem.
Ooh, that didn't work, I guesswe'll cancel.
Like, no, no.
You just needed to havemysteries last a while.
That's all you had to do, bruh.

SPEAKER_03 (54:19):
Mysteries that last more than two chapters?

SPEAKER_04 (54:23):
Yeah.
Like, uh I needed blanking uhSidcraft.
Um, like, this could have beenreally good.
Hmm.
If you just gave them like asemester-long mystery like a
season-long mystery in TV terms.
Right, right.
But instead, they like keptbloating characters and then got
cut because, like, yeah, yourprevious series was a harem
series.

(54:43):
This one wasn't one, then youtried to make it a harem, then
you got cancelled, and youdeserved it.
But also, it's like when we talkabout pacing, Sidcraft made it
to chapter 28.
Sleeper Psychic PolicemanChoserou made it to 65.
Both of these series are smallerthan the bottle test, I'm pretty
sure.

(55:03):
So you gotta earn your bottletest.

SPEAKER_03 (55:06):
The the the Shiba Inu rooms uh is at 41 chapters
now.
Uh, and I I'm a little bitworried that if they don't don't
do uh something to advance anactual plot, that it's just
gonna have the mostheart-wrenching ending ever
because her poor little dog,Moo, uh, is just going to uh

(55:31):
ascend.
And everyone's just gonna bethey're gonna be like so happy
that the dog actually managed toascend, but so like emotionally
distraught that their bestfriend that they've you know
made it through the rest oftheir high school career with is
now like gone.

SPEAKER_04 (55:47):
Yeah, and like to kind of loop back to like the
topic of pacing.
So Kagura Banshi is either inits endgame or just getting
started.
It can go either way.
Because we're at chapter 105,and the main villain has shown
up.
His uncle, who's a sword bearer,that wiped out Jeshu Island or
whatever it was.
I'll just assume it's alwaysJesuit.

SPEAKER_03 (56:09):
Jeshu Island is Korea.
This this is a Japanese manga.

SPEAKER_04 (56:13):
I'm just saying he hit something with the subsid,
and it might as well have been.
Something got melodicted.
And I'm deciding it was a warwith Korea.
But yeah, like, so this couldeither be the wind down to the
end of the series, right?
Of okay.
Because there's still like sixsword bearers unaccounted for.

SPEAKER_03 (56:36):
Four?

SPEAKER_04 (56:37):
Four sword bearers?

SPEAKER_03 (56:40):
Yeah, I think there might only be like three.
I think there are three.
One has the big man, one has thesword broken, and then one is
working with uh hero.

SPEAKER_04 (56:51):
Yeah.
And then three I think.
Anywho! The point is this couldwrap up in 50 or 500.
Because like, if you reallywanted to, too, after the like
six sword bearer arc is dealtwith, you can easily dive into,
but seriously, what was thismeteorite the swords are made
of, and also sorcery is a thing.

(57:14):
So, like, it can go past thesword collecting if it wanted
to.

SPEAKER_03 (57:18):
It could.
It does have a very interestingworld that's been slowly fleshed
out.

SPEAKER_04 (57:23):
And chance that man's heart to So she's about to
turn the moon into a sword,right?
America's flag.
Because America's flag's on themoon, therefore America owns the
moon, and since she's conqueredAmerica, therefore she owns
America, therefore she owns themoon, so she can make the moon
sword.

SPEAKER_03 (57:41):
That she's gonna turn the moon into a sword.

SPEAKER_04 (57:44):
So in any other series, I think it was ramping
up near an end because the powercurve has gotten insane.
But it's Chainsaw Man!

SPEAKER_03 (57:53):
Chainsaw Man, that's true.
So who knows?
The arc is definitely comingnear its end.

SPEAKER_04 (57:58):
Oh yeah, this arc is about to end about like a little
longer than the last arc.
That's sweet.
But I think like, I feel like itcan go another arc.
Yeah, probably.
And then, oh.
The worst trend though.
See, know how we started thiswith a lot of Sirius will hit
the 150 to 250 chapter range anddo their big pivot or their ship

(58:20):
utin or their now we getserious, or they just end.
The worst case is when they handit off to another author to
bungle it at that chapter point.
Because man oh man are Borito,Dragon Ball Super, and JJK2,
2JJ2K, things I don't care aboutright now.

(58:42):
Oh boy, are those mediocreconcepts.
Yeah.
Borito's pacing is just ruined.
So Borito is at chapter 29.
Oh, sorry, Borito 2, because Idecided I needed to ship it in
for no particular reason.
Is up to chapter 29.

(59:05):
I actually don't remember howwell our original Borito got.

SPEAKER_03 (59:09):
Yeah, I don't remember either.
Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 (59:14):
So the issue like that is like, okay.
Month re release, sure.
I just explained World Triggercan get away with the Borito K.
But Borito wants as much plot tohappen within 29 chapters as 290
chapters of Naruto.
Which is why nothing has anypayoff or joy to it.

SPEAKER_03 (59:31):
Original Borito only had 80 chapters before they
decided to ship it in.

SPEAKER_04 (59:36):
So, like, my complaint is like we don't care
about anyone or anything inBorito.
And I think a big part of thatis pacing.
Because, like, Borito's had asmany arcs and events happen as
part one Naruto did, right?
But none of it meant anything,because it didn't, like, linger
or give characters any move moveto breathe.
That's my theory.

SPEAKER_03 (59:57):
Yeah, well, so like Borito had one of the most
Interesting like ninjas versustechnology uh concepts.
Uh you know, steampunk ninjaworld.
Um, and then it turns out thatthe technology was based on
aliens, and then it turned outthat the a the technology was
actually completely irrelevant,and they basically don't use any
technology except forwalkie-talkies.

(01:00:19):
What's funny is we usewalkie-talkies?

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:21):
So a thing that a lot of people fail at is having
multiple independent villains inyour series.
So most show and jump serieswill have one villain
organization.
Right.
I would say part of the NinjaTech problem is the tech
villains and the aliens were thesame faction.
Where in part one, Naruto, everyvillage was a faction, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:45):
The Ikotski were independent, and Orochimaru was
independent.
And Orochimaru and Akatsuki didnot like each other.
Right.
So what happened is Naruto'svillains were all complex of
different motivations, becauseit's like Gara is just fighting
on his village, and technically,like, Gara wasn't any less
ethical than Naruto was.

(01:01:06):
Right.
They just belonged to differentfactions, and then Orochimaru
corrupted Gara's faction, butthat had nothing to do with the
Akatsuki or their plans.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:15):
Right.
So by allowing-cause allOrochimaru's plans.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:18):
So by like separating out your factions,
you're able to create like morecomplex character dynamics.
Because then you can havevillains turn coding works
better if there's threefactions.
Right.
Because they don't have to likeyou, they just have to hate the
other guy more.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:35):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:36):
And then Borg is like, no, no, all our villains
are a tree, I guess.
I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Sketchy Scientist dude shouldhave his own life going on here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:44):
But it turns out that Sketchy Scientist dude uh
was just completely irrelevant.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:49):
Yeah.
But back to World Trigger, thething I actually wanted to talk
about.
So, off stream, you rememberI've been like tinkering with
like a World Trigger card gamefor the lols.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:02):
And one thing I found interesting was the idea
that, like, because all thefights of World Trigger have
commentary, every single weaponability, and technique has been
intelligently power-scaled, moreso than anything else I've ever
read.
So let's take Naruto.
Naruto, they waited until likemiddle of ship, and it would be

(01:02:24):
like the five elements rock,paper, scissors each other.
Right.
In World Trigger, you go to likeepisode chapter, like, I don't
know, 10, and they're like,here's our three kinds of
swords.
Kirby sword beats strong sword,strong sword beats shield,
shield beats curvy sword.
And here is explaining inexcruciating detail the specific
use cases, ranges, durability,and statistics of every weapon

(01:02:45):
in this show.
Right.
Because they'll literally belike, snipers will definitely to
take mid-range shooters down ina fight, but if you as a melee
attacker can move around to thesniper, I'm like, wow, you
really just built your rockpaper systems and scissors
systems right into this lore,didn't you?
So like you get eight weapons,here's our standard weapons,
here's our variant weapons, andI'm just like, it has such a

(01:03:08):
solid foundation to build onthat even the characters who
rolled up in the invasion withbullshit powers had sensible
bullshit powers.
Like it's probably the mostintelligibly scaled anime of all
time.
Where JJK's scaling was sobroken, they're like, I have
infinity plus one powers, andthey're like, well, I can cut

(01:03:29):
through your infinity with myinfinity anti-infinity infinity
chant.
I'm like, why don't you even doit?

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:35):
And then the main character just punched good.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:40):
Yeah, but also like he was the chosen one with
special DNA, da-da-da-da.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:47):
Oh yeah, uh Sakuna Sak Sakuna?
Sukuna.
Anyway.
Uh there the fact that he hadtwo souls in him uh saved his
life, like, at least twice.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:59):
Well, not just that, but apparently Brain Transfer
Guy was Yuji's mom, and somehowthat never met came up in the
story.
Again.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:07):
Yes, and it doesn't seem to be important in the
sequel either.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:11):
The sequel's stupid, and someone should have said no,
you can't just be dan to dan.
You're not allowed to just bedan-to-dan with your time skip.
Stop it.
Finish your plot threads you'vealready written before having a
time skip, writing out all yourcharacters, and introducing
aliens.

unknown (01:04:27):
Come on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:28):
Introducing aliens that think the curses are just
different aliens?
I think that's the plot rightnow.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:34):
I don't know anymore, man.
And then we go to Odor of theFlame, the most shown in shonen
to ever shown in.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:43):
It does still, it also faces a bit of a pacing
problem because I can't see howI'd make it to chapter 100.
Like they're at 30, and it'slike, okay, he's fought half of
the basic elements on his way toIceland.
And his power's pretty much beenfully established as as strong
as he's gonna be.
I'm feeling like that thing'sgonna run a tight 70 chapters

(01:05:04):
and be done.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:06):
Yeah, I mean On the one hand, you know, we could
complain talking about pacingand how shows just don't run as
long anymore.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:17):
That's always a bad thing.
You can just have a tight goodmanga.
Hashtag Full Metal Alchemist.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:23):
Yeah, like like uh that 150 chapter mark where uh
there's usually a pivot.
I don't mind it if a seriescomes to an end at that point
because they told the story theywanted to tell.
So kind of then Yeah, go ahead.
Well, a after you after you toldthe story you wanted to tell,

(01:05:43):
well, you can just, you know,tell a new story that has the
different themes that you wantedto explore in your second half,
you know?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:49):
Well, there's like a weird thing about artistic
integrity here.
Cause I like to make the claimthat I personally enjoy the
really long-running series.
Right?
Because I'm a fan of worldbuilding, I'm a fan of tie-ins,
I'm a fan of playing in the critestablished space.
But also, the argument that athousand one-piece chapters is

(01:06:10):
simply too much, it's fair andvalid as a criticism.
It's funny, because like FullAlchemist is really good, but I
rarely talk about it because itkind of wrapped up all its loose
ends perfectly and was justdone.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:24):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:25):
And what's interesting is all these new
shonen, and part of why I'mcomplaining about pacing, is
they want the staying power ofthe quote big three plus Dragon
Ball Z, but aren't willing tobuild it.
And they're less it's like,let's take JJK.
JJK doesn't feel like it had ascripted story from start to

(01:06:46):
finish.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:48):
If it did, they wouldn't have had to introduce
50 new characters in the middleof plot arc three.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:54):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:55):
As you know, I'm a firm believer in not adding in
new characters past the halfwaypoint of your series.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:00):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:01):
So JJK doesn't feel like it had a scripted, tight
story to tell.
It felt like it wanted to be thenew Bleach, but wasn't willing
to commit to being the newBleach.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:12):
Right.
Or like like Tokyo Ghoul, forexample, too, uh, where, like,
it felt like they had a story totell.
Um, and then part way through,they're just like, and we're
just going to completely pivotto a new story and introduce a
whole bunch of a whole slew ofnew characters, and it it lost

(01:07:33):
me at that point, because likeit they didn't feel like they
were actually telling the samestory anymore.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:42):
So it's interesting, like, let's look at My Hero
Academia, for example.
That had a pretty for the oldergeneration runtimes anyway.
My Hero Academia had a prettylong runtime.
Like, I'd say it had like anappropriate number of chapters
when you think about along-running Shonen series,

(01:08:03):
right?
Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:05):
Because I think it clocked in at 430 chapters over
43 volumes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:11):
Yes.
So it was on the lower end oflike a super long series, but on
the higher end of series ingeneral.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:18):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:19):
I throw some shade at its pacing near the end,
because only one school yearpassed in the entirety of My
Hero Academia.
Really?
Yep.
Huh.
Only one school semester passed,and a lot of it was we had a big
war arc, and then we had anotherbig war arc right afterward.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:38):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:38):
But the actual concept of like the story arc of
he's given this power, becomesthe greatest hero, then gives up
this power and becomes ateacher.
That felt like the intended plotarc.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:50):
Mm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:51):
Because, like, they introduced pretty early on,
here's all my here's my power isto de uh my power to defeat all
for one.
All for one has his minion.
We introduced Shiraki, like,immediately.
And then other than like theydid a bit of a villain bloat
where they had like a jailbreakto up the numbers so they could
have a big war arc.
The final villain of himfighting Shigeraki after he'd be

(01:09:13):
inherited All for One's powerusing uh uh one for all's power,
and he loses his power to defeatthe guy.
That all felt deliberate, right?
Like the pieces he put on theboard, almost all of them paid
off somewhat satisfyingly.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:30):
So that one felt like it there's a few parts that
felt like and most of it feltlike because of, not end then
storytelling.
Because like they went out oftheir way to have some villains
not be attached.
Like they have a pole plotterkwhere they go against the
Yakuza, and that had nothing todo with the villains, and it got
like nice and complicatedthree-way shenanigans going on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:50):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:51):
But like, as a general rule, it stayed on
theme.
Weirdly enough, my critique formy hero is that it needed more
fluff between the big actionpieces and needed the timeline
stretched out so it took placeover three years.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:05):
Yeah, that would have made more sense.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:07):
Like, I would have added filler to it.
It was also like the first onethat like its TV show switched
from being a release weeklymodel to like a 12-episode model
for like show and jump stuff.

unknown (01:10:18):
Huh.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:19):
Like a few of them, like the shorter ones did that,
but like My Hero's the only oneI've seen do that and go like
seven seasons on that model.
So, like, if World Trigger lastsas long as My Hero, I do think
this arc will have payoff, but Ithink it's more stably set up,
weirdly.

(01:10:39):
Ugh, the biggest ass pole in MyHero is like, here's your seven
new powers.
And it that part wasn't the asspull.
I want to be clear.
The idea that each previous userof his power had their own power
and they put it into it.
I was fine with thatconceptually, but it dropped the
ball on pacing and on theprevious guy not having it.

(01:11:01):
So at the very start, they'relike, no one really knows what
All Might's power is.
And then All Might's like, oh, Ididn't have access to these
powers, only you do becausereasons.
I'm like, no no no no.
What you do is you have thishappen over three seasons, and
you give him the powers one at atime.
They basically are like, I haveseven powers, and then he just

(01:11:22):
got seven powers.
Yeah.
Where had you like stretched itout to him learning the powers
over six hundred chapters, Iwouldn't complain about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:34):
Yeah, they could have easily added several uh a
couple hundred more chapters andbeen roughly the length of
History's Strongest DiscipleKenichi.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:45):
That was perfectly recorded.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:47):
Like the pacing wouldn't have fell off.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:50):
So History's Strongest Disciple Kinchin.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:51):
It was perfectly paced.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:52):
Not not unflawed, but So ignoring the fan servicey
nonsense.
Like, man, oh man, if I got theanime rights, would I give
everyone a man's directory?
But the idea is that theyintroduce.
Kanichi's an interesting one.
Because they do just pull newvillains out of nowhere for most
of the show.
But around the 100-200 chapterpivot point, they introduced the

(01:12:16):
evil Rosenpaku, right?
Like the ten villains that gottogether to train Bird Guy.
And then every new villain fromthen was a disciple of those
ten.
Right.
So the characters, like all thecharacters he fought against
weren't introduced, but theirmasters were, so the characters

(01:12:37):
didn't come like felt like theycame out of nowhere, right?
So ipatch guy being like, ohyeah, I was trained by the last
time they tried to make aKenichi and he joined the League
of Villains was one of the guysthat trained me.
I'm like, okay, okay.
You actually set all yourcharacters up pretty early on.
Cause they mention, like, theten evil fist guys, like 30

(01:12:59):
chapters in.
Cause they like mention Kensei'sbrother pretty early.
They mention at the end of theRagnarok arc.
The guy that the previousKenichi basically.
And then when they reveal, oh,these guys are part of an
organization, I'm like, yeah,that makes sense.
They all had matching pins.

(01:13:22):
So I'd say Kenichi's pacing wasnearly perfect.
The spirit bomb at the end wasstupid.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:30):
And the elder punching a nuke and surviving
was stupid too.
Disagree.
That was sick.
You just don't like fun.
Maybe.
So like I just don't like fun.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:44):
So to talk about we we've had this chat before,
where it's like, the thing is,Kenichi's goal, they say at the
start, it's like he needs to beas strong as the elder by the
end of the series.
That ain't quite happened.
Right.
And like, I definitely wouldhave made, like, I know my final
fight would have definitely beenthe guy that, like, was strong
enough to fight the elder.

(01:14:05):
The big, like, actual leader,like a masterclass guy.
I would have had Kanichi and Muteam up to defeat a master, is
how I would have ended theseries.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:13):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:13):
So my final fight would have been Evil Kanichi guy
versus Kanichi and Mew togethertake down evil Kanichi guy.
Is what how I would haveprobably where I would have put
the last fight.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:28):
Because they start mentioning it at the end, he's
like, he's like as strong as alow level.
I'm like, you almost got this.
Your curve's almost good.
Because I would have believedKanichi plus Mu at the end could
have taken down one of the tenfists.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:40):
Right, yeah, that would have made sense.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:42):
And then both of them would have character arc
completed.
Because he needed Kanichi neededto his like emotional arc was
confidence in himself.
And Mu's emotional arc was notbaby and Kanichi, ironically
enough, right?
Like, both of them needed tolike be equals for the power
dynamic to work, and that's howI would have done it.
But also, I'm not out herearguing that Kanichi needed

(01:15:04):
rewrites.
Because they do like a fastforward to get Jack Kenichi
writing his book, which is funnybecause like he wanted to be an
author from the deep like itmakes sense.
Especially the unreliablenarrator at the end being like,
yeah, the elder punched a tank.
I'm like, oh, Kanichi wrotethat.
Somehow that like balances theloose ends of the story.
Like, did the elder really puncha duke to death, or was that

(01:15:25):
artistic flare?
We'll never know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:30):
But with that, maybe uh maybe we should move on to
our random question of the day.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:36):
I'm just gonna ask if you have any final notes on
pacing before we move on while Ilook up the questions.
And here's your chance tocomplain about Marshall King.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:45):
Marshall King.
Oh.
Marshall King is I don't know ifit's a pacing issue per se.
Um no, it definitely is a pacingissue, because like he like
speed runs getting this likeMagnum gun and then the golden
arms, and then he's like, oh,actually, I'm just gonna like

(01:16:05):
put them back, and then we'rejust gonna start introducing
random side characters that arerobots, and like I don't know.
The artistic merit doesn'treally warrant the uh erratic
storytelling that like itdoesn't know what it wants to

(01:16:27):
be.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:28):
I think the guy needed to take like six months
off and actually outline it thistime.
Cause like Doctor Stonefamously, its ending was
nonsense.
I'm like, yeah, because I don'tthink he thought of what
petrified people at the start ofthe show.
I think like he also didn't knowwhat the One Piece was.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:51):
Yeah.
Um like the the art is verybeautiful for sure.
Uh, but the the writing is allover the place, and like maybe
it can all come together by theend of it, but I don't see it
lasting that long, actually,because it's just not really

(01:17:11):
doing anything actually likefun.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:14):
I was just gonna be mean and be like, it's not doing
anything good.
And then, like, Kaiju No.
8 was probably like the cleanestrun I've seen since Full Metal
Alchemist.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:27):
Hmm.
They did just recently releaseuh more uh day off shenanigans.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:34):
I am all about the day off shenanigans, but like
yeah, kaiju number eight is justclean and completed.
I'd love a sequel in thatsetting, but I think I would
need the main characters.
I think the main character Ieven said I'm like, well,
they're standing sand by sidefighting a monster, show's over.
Like, I called that instantly.
I'm like, well, that is thetitle card image.
We're done.

(01:17:55):
Because you open a series withan opening image, and then you
close it with a mirrored openingimage, and you're good to go.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:01):
Hmm.
Yeah, all right.
It's definitely just a wonderfulseries.
I would recommend reading thatone for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:08):
So here is our random question.
What is the weirdest phaseyou've ever gone through?

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:15):
The weirdest phase I've ever gone through.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:18):
They're getting personal this far in.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:22):
Um.
I don't know.
I really liked fellow bottompants for for a while.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:29):
That was I mean, for me, it's obviously the
transition sunglasses ponytailin fighting people with cando
sticks.
It it's hard, like, I think thatwas awesome, and I would do it
again.
But I think to the outsiderthat's a weird phase.
The sword fight people at two inthe morning phase of my life was
probably a weird phase.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:50):
Yeah, when we were walking around Calgary with
wooden swords and got pulledover by the police because they
thought they were real swordsand people were complaining.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:59):
Beautiful.
We got Karen.
So that's my answer, but I don'tthink you can have the same
weird phase as me for the sakeof variety.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:07):
Well, no, no, no.
I mean, I'm I'm sticking withthe the bell bottoms.
Um so uh I I buy my own clothesnow, obviously, although most of
them are given to me by for freeby my workplace, so that's you
know pretty cool.
Anyways.
I I have like uh 15 or 16 uhpizzeria shirts.

(01:19:29):
It's it's ridiculous.
Some of them are old, I need tothrow them out.
Um but uh when I was younger, Ihad you know lots of siblings,
uh, so I got lots of hand-medowns.
Uh and so like I really likedthe the flared bell bottom
pants.
Um but I don't know why it tookme so long to realize, maybe and

(01:19:51):
maybe it's because they're illfitting because they're hand me
downs, uh but they would getlike the Ankles would slosh me,
uh, and then I would like stepon them and they would rare tip
and rare rip and tear and andstuff.
Uh, and it's just uh I I don'tknow why I like them at all.

(01:20:13):
Like bell bottoms are terrible.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:15):
So I will say, what people around me would probably
say is the weirdest phase, eventhough I argue objectively I'm
right and they're wrong, is I'ma phase where I wear dress pants
and a dress shirt to likeeverywhere I go.
But my argument is I have to bedressed like I'm in a job
interview at all times becauseevery person I talk to on the
elevator could be hiring me as aprofessor, right?

(01:20:37):
Like, and like I'm apublic-facing author figure.
So I argue that it's appropriatefor me to dress semi-formal
everywhere I go.
People are like, no, no, youjust like to do it.
It's kinda weird, never seen youin jeans and a t-shirt.
I'm like, yeah, I just had a15-minute conversation with the
dean of the school.
I probably should be dressedlike an adult.
So from outside looking in,people will be like, yeah, it's

(01:20:59):
weird.
Richard dresses in like a plaiddress shirt and like dark dress
pants every day.
I'm like, yes, I do.
You are correct.
But I think I'm right.
Objectively speaking.
I think showing up to class injeans and a t-shirt is more
acceptable and would make meblend in with my peers more.
But why would I want to do thatwhen I'm trying to be superior?

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:21):
Yeah, well, and yeah, professionalism isn't a
weird phase.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:24):
That's just like But you'd ask like my classmates and
things, and they'd absolutely belike, oh yeah.
He's in his weird phase ofalways dressing like a
professor, and I'm like, yes, myweird phase of dressing for the
job I want to have.
Because people like, you looklike a professor.
I'm like, that is the entirepoint.
If you show up to an interviewto be a professor, don't you

(01:21:44):
want to look like a professor?
Like when I send in myapplication to be a professor,
don't I want the dean's firstthought to be like, oh, I
thought he was already aprofessor?
Like, that seems good, right?
Like if you're applying to be, Idon't know, a football player,
and they look at you like, youlook like a linebacker.
That's good.
That is good that that's theirfirst thought is you look like

(01:22:07):
the thing you want to do.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:09):
But yeah, no, I I don't really uh I suppose maybe
um I don't know, like Lego whenI was younger, I really, really,
really liked Lego.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:20):
Uh but that's objectively correct.
Lego's awesome.
Yeah, I don't know if it's aweird phase.
I mean You know what might be aweird phase though?
When I got super into importingJapanese Gundam games.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:32):
Mmm.
Like I I I did kind of join onthat bandwagon with the getting
the uh Japanese PlayStationaccount and buying the Japanese
PS cards or whatever, so I couldget the DLC for Gundam Breaker.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:47):
Right?
Like that probably that'sprobably it.
Like in like importing uh SDL.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:56):
Jump Ultimate Stars?
No, that was that was a GumNintendo didn't have uh Region
Protection.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:03):
No, I'll say Jump Ultimate Stars was a mainstream
enough game, weirdly.
I think the line when it goesinto weird phase was importing
SD Gundam Wii version to havethe extra content that the DLC
version didn't have for thejailbreak Wii.
I think that is where it goesinto weird territory is that
specific game experience ofwhere, yeah, me and you are both

(01:23:24):
ride or die that Gatchapon Warsis the best game ever made.
Well, that's probably where itis.
That's the limit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:30):
Yeah, Gatchapon Wars is one of the best games ever
made.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:34):
It's objectively true.
But like, uh, I can see it froma devside point of view, being
like, you're doing what?
Oh yeah, me and Carl have to uhgo through freedom mode to
unlock more mobile suits so wecan have a better versus match
in this hyper-specific game wecan't read.
We were paying a turn-basedstrategy game.

(01:23:56):
The idea that we were playing aturn-based strategy game we
could not read is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:02):
Just trial and error, figure out what each of
the different commands do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:06):
Yeah, it was the Chinese room experiment where
you had someone inside the roomcards and you expect they speak
fluent Chinese, but they justuse a guidebook and symbol
recognization to output theother answer and don't actually
understand the language they'retranslating.
That is basically what happened.
And it was magnificent.

(01:24:26):
But with that, I think I need togo for lunch.
So if anyone else wants to askus hyper-specific questions,
please submit to the button thatwe put in the episode
description to get yourquestions to Deep Space and
Dragons.
Or Google my name and send methe question somehow.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:43):
But don't bother Googling my name.
I'm pretty sure my internetfootprint is too small.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:47):
No, to find Carl, you look at your tattoo on your
arm, right?
And then you compare it to thepeople you see until it lines up
and you walk up to him in thestreet and go, Carl, right?
And then say, my question is,and then walk away.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:01):
Well, see, the the problem is uh that I have magic
glasses.
Uh if I'm wearing the glasses,the tattoo is not.
If I'm not wearing the glasses,the tattoo is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:12):
That's such a hyper-specific version of the
hypnoglasses that makes mehappy.
I'm just saying that if someonedoxes you by listening to all
the episodes, shows up to yourplace of work and just goes, I
here's my random question, you'dbe thrilled and you know it.
I would definitely have to bringit up uh and uh Admit it, it'd

(01:25:32):
be the best thing that everhappened to you if someone in
the street is like, Carl, right?
Um, here's my question for thenext episode.
That would be amazing.
So I am encouraging every one ofour listeners to stalk Carl,
find out where he works, and askhim a question in his shit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:56):
That would be pretty pretty intense.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:58):
You know what would be really funny though if we did
have a sponsorship deal fromyour work and they got like a
10% off coupon if they asked youa random question for our
podcast.
Then that means you'd get extrabusiness for people trying to
hunt you down.
From like we have listeners inlike like I think we have one in
Vienna, like we have some peoplethat have to journey for this.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:23):
My boss did listen listen to at least one episode
of our podcast.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:28):
Like I said, not sponsored, just a fan.
I think for all the shade wethrow, I do have to mention that
you make good pizza.
Like, I feel like I actuallyhave to break that up once in a
while.
The pizza's real good.
To be perfectly clear.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:42):
I never talk about the pizza, it's always about the
the events that happen aroundthe pizza.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:47):
Right?
But like I I feel the cup cleanthat no no, the pizza's pretty
good.
Like, that is my goat you orderwhile I'm there.
Not sponsored, just a fan.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:56):
Anyway, you know, self-care, check out our our
other stuff like Vlad's book andand Vlad's itch.io.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:04):
Oh no, Vlad! That won't help with at all.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:08):
Oh no, yeah, don't don't search for don't search
for uh Rich Don't search forVlad.
That's uh good so good.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:22):
Bye.

SPEAKER_05 (01:27:23):
We're so bad at this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:27):
Oh, your first plug was immaculate, and the second
one's like, yeah, if you searchup Vlad's novel, it's like what?

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:34):
Who is I I just got a text message from from Megan
asking if I was talking to Vlad,and then that was on my brain, I
guess.
Flawless.

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