From Hospital Halls To Hunter Exams: Nerd Life, Grad School, And Dinosaurs

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We start with Karl’s medical saga, an MRI, a string of specialists, and the relief of returning to work, then veer into adaptations, fandom, and why some worlds are easier to live in than others. Along the way we argue for better theme parks, smarter ethics, and monsters that make your party sweat.

• third nerve palsy scare, MRI, neurologist referral, hospital recovery, back-to-work reset
• platelet whiplash, vaccine necessity, RFK Jr rhetoric critique
• Jurassic Park book vs film, adaptation trade-offs, Hammond and Malcolm contrasts
• product placement ethics, advertising to children, immersion vs commerce
• grad school survival, double-speed audiobooks, slash fiction and gender lenses
• Harry Potter immersion, Star Wars breakpoints, Jurassic Park core fantasy
• Netflix One Piece wins through ocean, ports, and pirates
• research threads on Gattaca, eugenics, Neuralink, Ghost in the Shell
• worldbuilding that does the homework, Fullmetal’s alchemy nods
• Daggerheart design: split-the-party golem, flexible builds, four humors flavor
• civic rant: school lunches, inequality, practical fixes through design
• immersive park pitches: Digimon AR world, Hunter Exam live run, Duelist Kingdom LARP

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Carl and Richard present Deep Space and
Dragons, if you're dyslexicenough.
I'm Richard, not quite dyslexicenough.

SPEAKER_03 (00:09):
And I am Carl, and I mean I don't think I'm dyslexic
at all, but I mean maybe I dorandomly mix up numbers
sometimes.
I hear that's pretty commonthough.

SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
I mean you never actually got checked, so you
could be crazy.
So as we get into today'sepisode, for those listening in,
congratulations.
You've listened to us talk alot.
I'll get a bit in a bit moreinto a monologue about that when
we get to the what's new withme.
But I'm gonna start with myzombie vampire survivor

(00:40):
colleague.
What is new with Carl with a K?

SPEAKER_03 (00:46):
Uh well, you know, um So I I I had the policy of
the third nerve in my eye, whichcaused double vision and and eye
droopiness and blah blah blahblah blah whatever.
Uh but according to the doctors,I'm fairly young.
Um I like how that's it likefull stop.

(01:06):
Well, according to the doctors,I'm young.
That's it.
Anyways, uh you know, that's amedical diagnosis, you know,
anyways, uh but the the issuecleared up fairly quickly.
Uh I haven't had any repeatissues issues, but uh my surgeon

(01:33):
referred me to an optometrist.
Ophtometrist, neuroophthalmologist.
Uh and I'm I maybe I should lookit up and see what specifically
a neuro ophthalmologist doesthat an ophthalmologist doesn't.
Because it seemed like they ranall the same tests and told me
all the same answers, butwhatever.
But you don't know you're not adoctor.

SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
I am not a doctor, that is because before this you
thought you were old, but nowgame changer.
I mean I would enjoy a medicalprofessional looking me dead in
the eyes and telling me I'myoung.
I think that would be good forme psychologically.

SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
So, um I I see the neuro ophthalmologist, they
don't really have any actualconcrete answers for me about
what what happened.
Uh they refer me to get an MRI.
Um and I I don't know if it wassomeone's misfortune or what,
but there was a cancellation,and so instead of in two weeks,

(02:34):
I got the MRI in about like fourdays.

SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
Nice.
For those unaware, MRIs involvemagnets.

SPEAKER_03 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean if you want to hear uhuh the full details of the MRI
itself, I mean you can listen toour our uh Carl and Carl and
Richard play Daggerheartpodcast.

SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
I I I need to clarify.
So your sales pitch was, andimagine if McDonald's did
something similar.
If you're interested in thisanswer about my medical problem,
go watch us play a TTRPG, wouldbe like a McDonald's commercial
going, and if you're interestedin our Big Mac, you should go to
McDonald's's opera, and I'mlike, what that's hilarious

(03:18):
because it's true.
I go watch an opera put on byMcDonald's out of sheer academic
curiosity.

SPEAKER_03 (03:27):
But but anyway, um, so the results got to the neuro
ophthalmologists, right?
So I'm like, uh, I'm laying inbed, my phone rings, private
name, private number, it's likeuh either this is whether I live
or die, or it's spam, it'simpossible to tell which.
Yeah, impossible to tell.
I mean, at the time I wasn'tthinking that it could even be a

(03:49):
doctor, I was just like, uh,someone private numbers calling
me, it's whatever.
But they left me a voicemail andthey're like, yeah, no, we we
need to talk about your results.
I'm like, oh, okay, well.
Uh, and I was actually justabout to call them back when
they called me back, you know,several hours later.
Um, and they're like, okay, uh,you know, nothing too concerning

(04:13):
about your uh results here.
Uh but uh I did refer you toanother specialist, a
neurologist.
Um and I was like, oh, okay, uhthat's that's good.
She's like, yeah, yeah, I just Ireally wanted to let you know,
uh, because he works for likethe MS Society or something like

(04:33):
that.
I I maybe I should have beenpaying paying more attention to
written.
We just don't want you to get wejust didn't want you to get
freaked out when you receive aletter uh from the MS Society
saying you got an appointmentwith this neurologist, because
you know we don't think you haveMS, but we wanted the second
opinion.

SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
To be fair, you'd be like, oh no.
Like, because you're a prettysubdue person, your reaction
would be like, oh.
And that's about as far as itgoes, because you lack a
dramatic flair.
But I would have freaked thehell out.
I would have freaked the hellout for you receiving the MS
letter.

SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I haven't actually uh received
said MS letter yet, uh, but I dothink it's funny that it looks
like the optomagist referred meto the ophthalmist, referred me
to the neuro optomologist,ophthalmologist, referred me to
a neurologist.
Uh it's like it's it's a chainof uh specialists.

(05:32):
Uh but I mean, besides that,well, what what's actually like
new with me and not just kind ofgeneral nerdy stuff that I've
just been watching lots of movieand TV shows during my time off,
uh, is that I uh I returned towork.
Why?
And uh well the the sooner I getback to normal, the sooner I can
get back to normal.

(05:52):
And actually, the first two dayswere kind of rough.
Uh, but today I'm I'm feelinggreat, which is good because uh
today is is a very spooky day,no matter what day you're
listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Oh, now we actually have to mention as Halloween in
the title, but moving on fromthat.
I do have to say though, so likeI'm anti-capitalist to a certain
extent because I'm in theliberal arts and it's corrupted
me.
And my first thought is like,how many organs do you have to
lose to get two weeks off?
Because one wasn't enough.
And just think about that for asecond, that you didn't lose

(06:26):
enough organs to take as muchtime off as the average CEO
takes off every month.

SPEAKER_03 (06:32):
No, I I I I took a full two weeks off.
I don't believe you.
I mean the first week was wasspent mostly in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
It's not time off if you're in the hospital.
It's being in the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 (06:45):
Ah so I I I went into the hospital on uh the
Friday before Thanksgiving inCanada.

SPEAKER_00 (06:53):
The real Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Which is important because because it's it's
different than Thanksgiving inthe United States.

SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
But it has an equal amount of genocide behind it.

SPEAKER_03 (07:04):
Anyway.
I don't know if I'm if Imentioned this at all, but
apparently on long weekends, uhthe hospital gets uh really
overcrowded.
Yes, the stick gets messed up.
So then there are are lots ofpeople who end up on hospital

(07:24):
beds in like the hallways.
Uh fortunately for me, myoperation was scheduled like
months in advance, and they hadan uh observation room set up
for me so that I can, you know,maybe they would make sure I'm
not dying or whatever.
Uh but like the nurses and stuffwere like, yeah, it's a good
thing you're not in the hallwayof tears.

SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
And it's like, oh yeah, stealing that for a TTRPG
location, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
But uh but anyways, um initially when I got the
surgery, I thought that um I wasgoing to be uh in the hospital
for like less than a day, youknow, going for my surgery, and
then like, okay, you can go homenow.
Then I have my pre-surgerymeetings like, oh no, no, you'll
be in the hospital for two tothree days.

SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah, because you had an organ removed, idiot.
Not for getting the organremoved, but for thinking it's
like, oh, I can walk it off.
You're not a Chia Madara.
You don't can't just take eyesand plug them in USB style and
continue mid-conversation.
I'm still mad about that.

SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
But so then I ended up being in the hospital six
days, and then uh I I actuallyhad to ask them if I could be
discharged on the sixth day,because I was like, no, I'm I'm
not eating a lot, but I'mactually eating solid food and
and like I'm not in that muchpain.
I could just take Tylenol, soI'll be fine, okay, at home.
Because, you know, in thehospital, uh it's like a the

(08:52):
hospital isn't a terrible placeto spend time, but it's also not
a great place to spend time uhoverhearing all these other
people's horrible medicaldiagnoses and problems and
stuff, and it's you know, it'snot super private, and you're
wearing a hospital gown that hasan open back for like weeks on
end.

SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
I mean, I get it.
No one enjoys being in thehospital.
And if someone does enjoy beingin the hospital, they really
need to worry about their homelife.

SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
I mean so I mean the hospital wasn't like absolutely
terrible, but again, uh youknow, the sooner I can return to
normal, the sooner when I canreturn to normal and then like
get back to living my life andhopefully being uh cured of the
the spleenic curse.

SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Yeah, where you're a better person than me, because
my first thought is oh, if I'mgoing to the hospital to get an
organ removed, I'm staying onlike my EA to recover as long as
possible because I've beenpaying into this service, and
fuck 'em.
And then I'd write another book.

SPEAKER_03 (09:57):
Uh but I mean, so I mean I am I am slightly
concerned about the wholeneurologist thing because uh the
the curse on my splene seems tobe uh kicking back, and now
instead of having low platelets,I have uh high platelets.
Uh but the uh hematologisthasn't actually called to say
that he's concerned or anythingyet, so maybe it's just part of

(10:19):
the normal process ofrestabilizing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
You know what my first thought is, which is
objectively funny to me though,is I'm like, oh now you have too
high of platelets, and thesolution is leeches.
Maybe.
Like obviously, clearly, thesolution now is bloodletting,
because the problem before is ifyou got cut you'd bleed to
death.
So clearly the solution now isto make you bleed, right?

(10:41):
Is that how that works?

SPEAKER_03 (10:44):
Uh but so anyway, so so I've I have returned to work
because again, uh, you know,like uh just laying around for a
month is like going back to workwas uh I was less painful for my
actual like the area that it Ihad my surgery on than it was
just for my back because I hadbeen like literally laying down

(11:09):
for like two weeks.
That makes sense.
And hadn't really done much forthe two weeks prior because I
had that time off too, or thanthe actual surgery pain.
Uh I mean I am still beingcareful not to overstring myself
for the surgery purposes, but itwas like, ugh.

SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
Um I for one am glad you're alive, but we don't
actually know our audience'sthoughts on this.
So please comment whether or notyou're happy that Carl survived
below the episode, so we'll knowthat you appreciate him being
alive still.

SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
Uh but I mean besides that, yeah, I mean I'm
basically just returning normaland you know I I had a lot of
time to to well I only read onebook while I was off from from
work.
Uh watched a few TV shows, uh,but only read one book.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
And I'm assuming that book was The Waltz of
Blades by Richard A.J.
Givis.

SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
No, I've already read that book.
I read Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Oh man, that came up in class yesterday.
Jurassic Park is my own work.
Never my own work.

SPEAKER_03 (12:19):
Well why was your class talking about Jurassic
Park?
Is it because of the cooltouchscreen idea they had where
it was a laser lattice?

SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Uh unfortunately no.
So the what's new with me isjust this week it'd be me
sharing random antidotes of theridiculous stuff I've done in
class.
Cause I wasn't expectingMaster's program to be like, how
can I put this?
My classes have been AD as ADHDas my own brain for just going
all over the place.

(12:46):
Huh.
So I've recently switched tolistening to audiobooks at
double speed because of thesheer amount of reading I have
to do.

SPEAKER_03 (12:53):
Makes sense.
And I think I've I uh sorry,just as Yeah, go ahead.
You have to pay extra if youwant to listen on YouTube uh at
faster than two times speed.
Uh but I I have actually takenthe habit of watching boring
videos at double speed becausethen it doesn't take as long to

(13:13):
absorb the information.

SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Yeah, so like I've been talking about it like I'm
carbo loading.
Like I'll absorb this book onthe commute.
So wake up at five, waterboardmyself in the shower so I'm
functional, feed the cat, feedthe me, make coffee, if I'm
lucky there'll be food left overin the fridge, and then throw on
these audiobooks, being like, Doyou want to learn about Watson's
book on the double helix?
And I'm like, sure.

(13:35):
Class is in four hours.
If I go and I'll literally setthe speed so the book finishes
when I arrive at campus.
Because I basically just shoveda float-long sub of knowledge in

(13:58):
my brain, and now it's just kindof dissolving.
Because I'm like, I'm doing thisevery day, right?
Like, this isn't like uh once aweek I absorb a book, it's every
day I absorb an entire Borkus ofcontent on my way to the campus.
And I kind of want to know if Ican maintain this power, because
absorbing an entire book a daywould like actually put a

(14:18):
reasonable debt in my readinglist.

SPEAKER_02 (14:22):
If I don't go mad.

SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
So we're doing this week's class, which the class is
like emerging topics, childhood,culture, something, something,
something.
And for context, I think I toldyou last week we were doing like
fairy tales and food and fairytales, and I baked a plethora of
different eras of gingerbread togive my in presentation on how
the different how good thegingerbread is affects the

(14:44):
meaning of Hansel and Gretel.
So I think I briefly mentionedthis in the other podcast that
toasting bread crumbs andpouring boiling honey into it
and using cinnamon and pepperdoesn't make delicious tasting
gingerbread.

SPEAKER_03 (14:59):
Right, right.
So it's uh it was a medicinerather than a uh treat like it
is nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
So they go to this witch and are given this
medicinal terrible cookiegelatin cube, and you're like,
oh, this isn't about Hansel andGretel being fat kids and being
punished for it.
This is them trying to not die.
Cause like, when you tell heresomeone be like, and then after
this, I'm gonna go toDisneyland, you're like, oh,
that's heroic.
You're after this, I'm gonna goto Moose Jay, you're like, mmm.

(15:25):
I I feel like their life is alittle harder, and this is
supposed to be read as sad, notglorious.
So this week was on SlashFiction for some unexplicable
reason.
So we start by So we start bytalking about pairings and Harry
Potter.
And one of my classmates givesthis delightful presentation on

(15:46):
the different levels of likesexuality and gender dynamics
and things like Harry X Ron vs.
Harry X Draco versus Harry XSnape, which is deeply
problematic.
Deeply, deeply problematic.
But also makes up a decentpercentage of the internet.
Right, right.
So we do this big presentationon Slash Fiction, and then they

(16:06):
have like this selection ofvideos they pull up where people
would take clips from the moviesand make like their fan
narratives by putting differentsubtitles and special effects
and heart emojis and things.

SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
So after we cover that for a bit, we start talking
about immersive theme parks.
And they start talking about thedifference between Harry Potter
Land, which is designed to beimmersive, and Disneyland, which
isn't really as immersive.
So in Harry Potter Land, becauseof the nature of how Harry
Potter's written, you can do alot of things that happen in the

(16:37):
books, because a lot of thebooks are shopping.
You can go buy your wand, youcan go try your butterbeer, you
can run through the woo fakewall, like all of the things
that happened because it was anarrative constructed to take
place in a world like our ownbut British, it becomes very
easy to emulate that in a themepark.
Where if you try and do the samefor Star Wars, the immersive

(16:59):
Star Wars experience isn't asgood because people can break
your immersion much easier.
It takes one dude in a wifebeater and a MAGA hat to
realize, oh, I'm not in a galaxyfar, far away.
Because, like the fundamentalfantasy that drives engagement
with Harry Potter is escapism.
I am an abused kid literally inthe closet, and I want to go to

(17:19):
a place where I'm accepted.

SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
Is Harry Potter a gay narrative?
Well, they put it enoughstraight splaining to balance it
out.
Can it be read as that?
Kid comes out of the closet to amagical world of flamboyantly
dressed people?
You can make that reading.
That reading is fair.
That is a fair reading.
The terabytes of fan fictionwould back that reading.
So we're talking So the secondpresentation is being given on

(17:42):
immersive experience andnarratives that go outside the
source media, right?
The idea of like having a show,but also having a theme park and
a movie and Twitter accounts andwhatever to kind of like raise
the scope so it's multimediaimmersive.
Well, they're making theargument that Harry Potter was
immersive and Disneyland wasnot, but the Jurassic Park

(18:04):
experience at Universal Studiosis much more immersive.
Because the core fantasy behindthat is people you hate being
eaten by dinosaurs.
So if you go in a Jeep and yousee animatronic dinosaurs eating
people, you've extended past theoriginal text and gotten there.
So of course the final questionI asked at the presentation is
like, well, after thispresentation, do you believe we
should clone dinosaurs and makea theme park?

(18:24):
And they say, without missing abeat, so the last four people
lacked vision.
But I got this.
Because the joke about JurassicPark is it's like the classic
sci-fi, don't want to build theTorment Nexus, and then the tech
company announces the TormentNexus the next week.

(18:45):
It's like, yeah, the idea of adinosaur theme park is
objectively sick.
And like, even though the coremessage is don't build a
dinosaur theme park, everyonetakes away, I want a dinosaur
theme park.
Well, it would be awesome.
Okay.
So I got there.
I got there.

SPEAKER_03 (19:04):
There are a lot of uh there are a lot of changes uh
that you have to make to adaptuh a novel into a movie.
Um and uh the the book uh isdefinitely um a lot more uh
anti-tech giant bioengineeringkind of stuff.

(19:25):
Um so like the the uh JohnHammond character um in in the
book he does in fact get eatenby dinosaurs and it feels like
his just desserts because evenat the very end uh it's he's uh
he's blaming all the problems ofthe park not on his own uh

(19:45):
tubris but on the lack of visionof the people that work for him.
Um uh I just thought that was avery like it comes off a lot
more uh likable in the in themovie.
But then the poor lawyer uh inin the book he's like he's kind
of a hero.

(20:05):
Uh but in the movie theybasically reduced him to a joke
that gets eaten on a toilet,which I don't even why was that
toilet even there?
I mean I guess I I don'tunderstand how the car ride ride
is supposed to work becausepeople are going to like need to
use the washroom on thismulti-hour tour.

SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
I mean you can put a toilet on a bus or a train,
GoTransit has toilets.

SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
Yeah, I know.
I mean I I think it was actuallyabout the product placement for
for uh those where Ford ExplorerOh we did talk about product
placement in a class yesterdaytoo.

SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
But we were talking about the ethics of advertising
to children and how instead ofcommercials which were more
ethical, we've switched to theless ethical strategy of just oh
man, we gotta hear about PeterParker talk about his new
Jordans for some reason.
And my argument is that issimply worse.
Like, if you give someone a tella child you should buy this is

(21:06):
more ethical than a child justwatching this and be like, man,
I'm gonna be a pro babe later.
Uh someday.

SPEAKER_03 (21:17):
Yeah.
But so it's a spoiler alert forthe end of the book.
Uh the Ian Malcolm, uh played byJeff Goldblum in the movie, uh,
the Chaostician.
What a title presented thatright, but it's a dope title
nonetheless.
Uh so at the end of the firstJurassic Park book, uh, he

(21:38):
actually he dies of like sepsis.
Uh actually, well side tangent,I'm I'm not sure if we talked
about this before.

SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
Uh but that you came very close to dying of septus
and didn't tell me?

SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
Because you would.

SPEAKER_03 (21:56):
That's true, I I would do that, but no, this has
to happen.
Um but no uh the the scene inthe movie where the dinosaur the
T-Rex breaks out of his uh cage,right?
And uh he the the kids are inthe one car, the adults are in

(22:17):
the other car, and the T-Rexlike is pushing cars around and
and he drops the one car off theedge into an enclosure, and I'm
like I you know the first timewell numerous times you watch
the movie, you don't realizeit's like Where did this cliff
come from?

(22:39):
It needed to be there for themovie to happen, but you're
you're watching the scene andit's like no seriously, where
where are they now?
Uh in in the in the book, uh thethe T-Rex actually like just
throws their cars like picksthem up and throws them, and uh
you know Malcolm gets picked upby the T-Rex and and the T-Rex

(23:01):
isn't really actually interestedin hunting him, so he doesn't
like actually like try and eathim or anything, just picks him
up and throws him, and then hehas a broken leg and dies of
sepsis at the end of the move ofthe book.
But then then so um so T-Rexshows up as it stomps around and
makes like waves in the puddlesand whatnot, and it's like, oh
man, this is a big dinosaur.

(23:22):
Uh and then as Ryan George putit, the T-Rex has an arc where
he learns how to be sneaky uhand brick into the information
center without being noticed tosave the protagonists from the
Velociraptors.

(23:44):
Anyway, the movies have to deala lot more with object
permanence, and apparently thehuman brain is will just not
notice these kinds of details ifit's you know rule of cool
enough.

SPEAKER_00 (23:55):
I mean, it's funny, because like my brain's so not
tuned in that like I will noticea narrative structure beat and I
will harp on it, but I will notnotice a color.
Like, you're right, you're like,I never would have noticed the
cliff.
Never in a million years wouldbe like, where did this cliff
from from?
Because I'd be too busy beingangry about the fact that they

(24:15):
gave a save the cat moment to acharacter that didn't have any
narrative payoff later.
Like, I'm more mad that thecliff didn't represent someone
overcoming a struggle.
Like, I'm mad that they fell offa cliff and then have to climb
up another cliff than I am madabout the existence of a
spontaneous cliff.
Like, I'm like, Chekhov's cliffneeds to have payoff, and you're
like, why is there a cliffthere?

(24:36):
I'm like, you know what?
That never occurred to me.

SPEAKER_03 (24:38):
Well, and then like like like I say, uh the T-Rex
shows up uh like like you sayinitially it's this big scary
thing where it stomps and youcan hear it coming and it causes
like basically mini earthquakes,because it's just this big
dinosaur.
Rahra.
And then suddenly it just it itappears out of nowhere with
there's no doorway big enoughfor this T-Rex to get into this

(25:00):
building.
Uh like how did he even get intothe building?
How did it get there unnoticed?
Like, how did they not see ituntil the exact dramatic moment?
But at the time when you'rewatching the movie, um, it just
you just accept it because it'slike, oh, the heroes needed to
be saved, the T-Rex comes back,kills the the Velociraptors, and
it kind of becomes a staple ofthis series in in movie form

(25:22):
where the T-Rex shows up at thelast minute and does something
cool.

SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
Which I mean to be fair is uh I have such a deep
hatred of trailer baiting whereit'll be like we wrote the scene
in the movie so it looks cool,like in the trailer.
And then that scene just showsup at the very end, and you're
like, oh, this wasn't anything.
Hiss.

SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
But so anyway, in the book, uh, Ian Malcolm dies
of sepsis uh at the very end.
And then apparently, I haven'tactually read the second book
yet, uh, but apparently, uh hiseditors or someone were upset,
so he had to retcon it that IanMalcolm didn't die and he comes
back in the second book.

SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Editors be a thing that people just simply forget
exist.
Like, this comes up a lot in ourlit classes of how much was the
author and how much was theeditor being like, no, you need
to adjust this to sell this toan audience.
So I don't know if this madeinto a podcast.
And I'm not sh and Disney mightsue me for this statement, but
there was rumble is going aroundthat when they wrote The Frog
Princess, that they had to tonethe music down because it was

(26:25):
too ethnic and the white kidswouldn't vibe on it as much.

SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
The movie where they could proclaim this is our first
black Disney princess of alltime, they then had to go in and
de-ethnic the movie.
Just fundamentally, that'sthat's the kind of editorial
oversight you get on thesethings.
But like, on the top ofadaptations a bit.
So I started going through theNetflix uh Netflix One Piece

(26:51):
again because I needed brainsoap and I'm tired.
But I was watching it after thisconversation in class about
theme parks and the core fantasyand media products provides and
how to like build immersion andbuild out stories.
And you know what the NetflixOne Piece does really well,
which I think is actually thesecret to its success, other

(27:12):
than One Piece wasn't that good,so it's easy to make better.
Okay.
Because they actually filmed onthe ocean.
So you watch the Netflix one,and the boats are being hit by
cannonballs, and they're goingto these ports, and you're like,
this they added pirates in.
Because much like Naruto, OnePiece was about pirates, but not
really.
Like, it was more set-dressing.

(27:32):
Like, he never actually didpirate things for most of it.
It was, I'ma be a pirate, andthis is an excuse to basically
One Piece is closer in structureto Star Trek than Pirates of the
Caribbean, where like you takeyour ship, you have your drama
on it, and then you go to awacky planet where adventure
happens and you leave to thenext wacky planet.
Which is why, like, the Islandof Hats thing we talked about

(27:54):
with magic sets a while back ofI'm gonna go to Christmas land.
Now I'm off to Desert Land.
It's like One Piece was goingthrough all the Mario Worlds.
Which for the record, you couldmake a sick 2D One Piece
platformer because they do justgo through the Mario Worlds.
Like, they literally go toSpooky Land at one point, which
is just a boat full of skeletonsand like I think we gave I gave

(28:17):
the rant too about how like thedifferent biomes are structured
a while back, where it was like,yeah, you start in forest land,
and then you want the oppositesto go to desert land, and like,
yeah, no, One Piece follows theplatform structure completely.
But by adding in like piratesand bars and like they added in
a lot to it to make it like morepiratey.

(28:38):
Weirdly enough, by notwhitewashing the cast and being
like, look at this character wholooks like they're from the
Caribbean because they're in theCaribbean because they're
pirates, and I'm like, nice.
So, like, if you made a OnePiece land, for example, you can
make a really immersive themepark if you make there be enough
water.
Like, One Piece land would belame if it's like a Disneyland

(29:01):
one-to-one, you should buy arandom One Piece merch.
One Piece land would be sick ifyou had your little island set
up and you rode your little boatto your little islands to do
your little adventures, and hada was basically a pub crawl
between these locations would besick.

SPEAKER_03 (29:18):
So funny enough, it's like uh like they even
managed to make a 2D platformerout of Aladdin, and Aladdin just
doesn't have enough likedifferent scenes to even really
do it.
Yep.
Uh so the idea that it's likeOne Piece like literally has
like what is it, like fiftydifferent at least fifty

(29:40):
different islands in over theirthousand chapters?

SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
Oh yeah, and they mention it's a plot.

SPEAKER_03 (29:43):
I mean how many different islands are there?

SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
So One Piece has over a hundred named and
confirmed islands.
And how plot part one of OnePiece's structure, this is
actually written into the story.
So you start on the reversewaterfall, right?
Coming from one of the fourseas.
And each island is a specialcompass that points to the next
island, and there's five routesyou can take that give you

(30:06):
through a different route ofislands to get to the halfway
point.
So it's literally a like theactual canonical story of One
Piece is it's a roguelike to gothrough the one uh through the
first half of the Grand Line.
You're literally playing aroguelike of pick one of three
islands to go to, to jump fromisland to island to island, to
get to the halfway point, to goisland to island to island, and
if you find the four glowyrocks, you get to go to the

(30:28):
special last island.
I think the only reason thatplatforming game doesn't exist
is One Piece isn't done yet, soyou wouldn't know what to put on
the last island.

SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
What is the One Piece?

SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
I'm pretty sure it's a fruit tree or a library or a
spaceship.
Or a rock with the wordfriendship on it.
Because the real friend the realtreasure was the friends you
made along the way.

SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
But yeah, like on the to- I've been saying a lot
of but yeah since this podcast.
No, I just realized I probablysaid but yeah enough times to
make a drinking game out of it.
Cause that's me trying to segueweird concepts together.
So the what's new with me?

SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
So I've been in grad school for the last three
months?
Time has lost a lot of meaning.
And one thing I didn't expectabout grad school is each class
is basically structured the sameI give a presentation, I write
an outline, and I write a bigass paper.
What I wasn't expecting was thesheer breadth of nerdiness that

(31:36):
was allowed to me in theseclasses.
So I give my first paper on RFKJr.
and anti-vaxxers and their toxicrhetoric.
Because, even though I might getsued from his foundation here,
he has no credentials whatsoeverand doesn't know what vaccines
are.
He simply is unaware.
Right.
At one point he goes on stageand goes, they put a liter of

(31:58):
liquid into babies.
They don't.
The baby would be dead.
You can't just put a PepsifulPepsi bottle into a child.
Also, vaccines work.
Just hot take, I know, butpeople would literally kill for
a vaccine.
Like Bill Gates, what, juststraight up eliminated malaria
in his lifetime by vaccinatingpeople?

SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
Uh just as as a little anecdote for myself here,
I'm I'm sure this has made it onanother another episode.
Um, but uh your spleen protectsyou from uh certain viruses, uh
including meningitis, which umsounds pretty scary.
Apparently, your brain getsinfected and then you get it.

SPEAKER_00 (32:39):
I mean, at least it's not meningitis.

SPEAKER_03 (32:42):
Not good.

unknown (32:47):
Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (32:49):
Oh, well, I'm seeing I'm protected from meningitis,
so vaccines are good.
Uh the point of the matter is uhthat yeah, I I had to get like
all they gave me like fourvaccines in one day.
It was awful, two in each arm.
And it's like, okay, thank you.
Now my arm, both my arms aregonna be sore for like a week.

SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
Yeah, Deku arm going on.
But I I I am also definitely uhlike pro-vaccine uh just because
it's like they they do serve apurpose, they do help protect
people, so I think my issue isactually more with if you're
anti-vaccine but don't have analternative, you can shut the

(33:29):
hell up.
Like that I think is my biggerissue, is people are like, well,
what well, children in schoolsaren't being taught what I want
them to, and I'm like, are yougonna give more money to the
school?
No, then shut the hell up.

SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Like Well, yeah, okay, so if someone was an
anti-vaxxer and they're like,actually, you know, people
should just eat boogers becausethey have tons of half-digested
bacteria in them and could helppotentially help auto-immunize
people through eating snot.

SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
If they can show me the paper, I have to accept it
though.
Like, if they show me the paperand the results, then yes, I'm
pro-booging it if the data isin.

SPEAKER_03 (34:11):
I don't I don't know if we've been over those on the
podcast or not.
Uh, but there is not actuallyenough scientific data to to
support that point.
Don't go around eating people'sboogers unless you're doing it
for science.
Uh, but there aren't enoughpeople willing to participate in
that experiment.
I think that's true.
I think you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I genuinely believe that if you had a presentation
and you had like a solid thesisto back it, and you reached out
to Canadian uh research grants,you absolutely could get the
grants to give people a giftcard if they're willing to
volunteer to eat booger boogersif you have enough evidence to
back this.
Or even like like this is athing you could just do.
That is the world we actuallylive in.

(34:50):
You could just do a study, butthen people on the fucking news
will be like, We're wastingmoney on these studies.
And I'm like, well, too bad thatCarl was one person away from
learning that eating boogerswould cure cancer.
He was this close, but you cutthe funding because you don't
know enough about it, so itmakes you angry to know people
are researching eating boogers.

SPEAKER_03 (35:10):
Well, I mean, the the other the other thing is the
social stigma around eatingboogers.
I mean, I don't know if this isactually true, but I heard that
those actually one of thebarriers to the studies being
done is that there aren't peoplewho want to eat it or admit that
they eat boogers.

SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
Whoever told you that is bullish.
You have no any college studentwhen offered 20 bucks will do
anything.
Do you think I Do you honestlythink if someone offered me a$20
Tim's card to weekly eat my ownboogers, I wouldn't say yes to
that?
Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
Uh we weekly eat someone else's boogers.
Well, I mean, I don't know.
We would need a control group,so you're right.
You might you might be in thegroup that eats their own
boogers.

SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
But the point be, or the ones that eat fake boogers
that are just made out of laffytappy, because we have to double
plug this.
No.
Genuinely think that if youcouldn't get enough people to do
the study, that's someconvenient bullshit.
That is someone being like, it'strue, but I just haven't got no,
you could just go do this study.
Go get your license, go to yourschool, get your bachelor's
degree, put out your grantfunding and test this.

(36:14):
That's how this works.

SPEAKER_03 (36:17):
Alright, I'll get I'll get started on this
multi-year process, but if itends up curing cancer, uh I'll
let you know.

SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
And if it ends up doing nothing, it should forever
shut up people, which is equallyvaluable.
Learning something isn't true isreally useful.
Fair enough.
Uh but yeah, rants aside, like,a lot of my life right now is
like there's a conference comingup, and I need to pitch a
presentation for thisconference, but I also want to
multitask and make it mypresentation for my science,

(36:45):
literature, and art course.
And like So, because of how I'min literature, a lot of my
research papers are I pick awork of fiction or non-f like I
pick a source text and thenbuild an argument around it to
be like Like, for example, Icould be looking at Ghosts in
the Shell in Neurolink and howElon Musk is making Ghosts in
the Shell of the reality.

(37:06):
Is it ethical to put chips inpeople's brains to fix their
disabilities?
So, like, a paper like thatwould be something completely
reasonable I could write.

SPEAKER_01 (37:14):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
I'm briefly considering writing a paper on
whether or not the destinysystem from Gundam C Destiny,
where we look at people'sgenetics and put them in jobs,
is actually we basically someonein the 1600s wrote about wrote a
paper that's the same concept.
I kind of want to compare thetwo and be like, here's the
destiny system then and now, andwhy eugenics simply doesn't
work.

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Well, and then there's uh that movie Gattaca.
That I like that movie.

SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
Oh, snaps, that's a great thing I could focus on.
Like Gattaca would be a good onefor me to do a paper on.
Yeah, I mean it'd like say it'sthe same same basic concepts,
but more well, I I don't I don'tthink eugenics papers, but like
less giant robots, like Gattacais definitely a better Ah man,
like I put it that on my list,because I'm kind of like putting
together a list of like sci-fithings I can write about for

(38:02):
this upcoming seminar.
But yeah, like my class, forexample, had a week on alchemy,
and someone gave a presentationon actual Full Metal Alchemist,
where I learned that vonHohenheim was an actual
alchemist, which is hilarious tome.
Like, that's just delightfulknowledge to be like.
Like, the more I watch thispresentation, the more I realize
that the author of Full MetalAlchemist actually did her

(38:24):
research.
Which is the biggest blot twist,because you could just lie to us
about alchemy.
We're not gonna check.

SPEAKER_03 (38:31):
Well, I mean, on on the one hand, um, you know, if
you're gonna write something,you should just start writing
something and get some ideas onthe paper.
Uh, on the other hand, uh, thegreatest and most endearing
pieces of fiction, uh, like Lordof the Rings or Full Metal
Alchemist, uh, they do have ahuge amount of research and

(38:51):
forethought put into them, uh,and that makes that world seem
much more believable despite theunbelievability of the the
contact.

SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
Yeah.
So in my like science,literature, and art class for
last well, this week, we talkedabout this book called The
Double Helix, which was writtenby a Nobel Prize winner.
Where he tries so hard to makehimself sound like the underdog.
And it is wild.
Okay.
Because like there's a lot ofcontroversy about the book
because he like paints all hislike scientific coworkers in not

(39:23):
flattering lights and makes kindof like the sciences sound like
a frat party for some reason.
Cause he's just after beinglike, everyone's writing their
equations, but really it'ssimpler than that.
You just have to build a model.
So I was at the pub drinking abeer surrounded by hot women, I
started piecing together thedouble helix.
People are like, What are youtalking?
So it's a fantastic read,because it's like we read this

(39:46):
book from this guy's point ofview, it's like self-biography
of why he's a Nobel Prizewinner, and he's like trying to
frame himself as the underdog,and it's fascinating.
Is this book good?
No, but it is delightful.
Like you get to a bit where he'slike, I was so close to figuring
out the structure, but then Ihad a stomachache.

SPEAKER_03 (40:06):
Ooh, yeah, that's that's quite the underdog moment
right there.

SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Yeah.
Also, he just straight up stealsthis female scientist paper and
calls her like no one wants afeminist in their office.
Women are unhinged.
And anyway, after she graciouslygave me her photographs of the
DNA, I was able to build this.
It's like, you stole these,didn't you?
Y yeah, you stole this, right?
Like, you basically confessed onthis page, like you said it was

(40:31):
a coincidence that you just sawthe pictures there when you went
to go visit her and then sheattacked you.
Yeah, she attacked you, and as aside effect knocked you over and
your eyes looked at this photNo.
No, right?
Uh but yeah, grad school isdelightful because I wasn't
expecting.

(40:52):
I just wasn't expecting wherethings were going.
Like, next week, one of ourpresentations is on gender
identity in the Legend of Zelda.
Because they made Link the leastmasculine and least feminine
character of all time, so peoplejust project themselves onto
Link.

SPEAKER_03 (41:06):
That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
And like Princess Zelda was just the first trans
character in a video game.
It's kinda hard to argue thatZelda Sheik was not a trans
experience.
Come on.
They literally changed theirgender to blend into society.

SPEAKER_03 (41:22):
Uh uh as a as a funny side note, uh, in the
original Zelda game for this uhNintendo, uh, if you put in uh
your character name as Zelda, uhit unlocks hard mode.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Which is sick.
And then what's people are stillfrustrated that they finally
made like a Legend of Zelda gamewhere you played a Zelda and
they didn't call it the Legendof Link and forgot to make it
good.
I know a lot of people were verydisappointed when Breath of the
Wild came out and you couldn'tjust choose your character's
like body type.
And I'm like, yeah, why can'tyou?

(41:57):
Link being male has nothing todo with this narrative, because
he doesn't have any voicedialogue, Nintendo.
And Nintendo, if you're toocheap to voice your
protagonist's dialogue, why notlet them be any character?

SPEAKER_03 (42:09):
So stepping back, that cool Zelda game where you
like create shadows of monstersand whatnot, like that wasn't
actually good.
I I thought it looked superawesome, but it never ended up
buying it.

SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
Uh no one that I know of actually played it or
talked to me about it, so I'massuming I could be wrong.
It could have been sick, but noone I I don't know anyone who
played it.
I know a lot of people.
Like, it is wild to hear nothingabout something.
And then I'm not gonna give myrant again about the new Pokemon

(42:43):
game.
The new Digimon game was sick.
I stand by that.
The new Digimon game lets you bewhatever gender you want,
because they don't care.
You can actually just change itfrom the menu whenever you feel
like it.
Yeah?
So it's like, yeah, you can justpush a button and change from
bot character type A tocharacter type B.
We don't care.

SPEAKER_03 (43:04):
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really actually affect
gameplay, so why not?

SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
Yeah.
So, like, it's funny becauseit's like, oh, it's the first
game I've ever seen to be like,hey, maybe you don't want you're
sick of this voice, and you justwant to change it, and you just
can.
But then Nintendo's just behindon all technology at all times.
Uh, my rants on Nintendo aside.

(43:30):
So, yeah, a lot of what I'vebeen doing is researching
science things, and thenresearching nerdy things in
equal measure.
And it's I wasn't expectingthis.
I really thought I'd be doingmore Hemingway and more Dead
Poet this and famous authorthat, and they're just like,
hey, want to read this paperabout Pokemon?
I'm like, yes, what?

(43:51):
Hey, what do you mean I get atalk about fanfic pairings?
Yes, I want to talk about fanficpairings.
It's great.

SPEAKER_03 (43:59):
So I mean, it's it's kind of the whole idea that you
need to know the rules beforeyou can break them.
Um so like even even in likemusic, it's like you you start
with basic music theory, um, butthen like you start exploring
how other composers have uhtweaked different uh like chord

(44:20):
structures or things like that,and how that created new genres
of music, and and you can seethis progression, but to really
truly understand something likein that way, you have to know
the basic structure of what itwas.
That's what I did, right?

SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
I fully under I was fully expecting to be allowed to
write what I wanted to writeabout in grad school.
What caught me off guard is theprops being on the same level.
So I expect that I can go writea paper on Pokemon or Ghosts in
the show or what have you.
What I don't expect is when Isay the sentence, oh I'm
thinking about writing on Ghostsand Show, and them going, Oh
yeah, I taught that last year.

(44:54):
That's what's catching me offguard, right?
Like, when I get into gradschool, I was expecting to do
what I want because of who I amas a person.
I wasn't expecting the samewavelength.
I wasn't expecting to go upthere and be like, so Naruto and
Sasuke is the obvious ship, andthen the prof go, well, yeah,
that makes sense because a lotof things written for show and

(45:16):
jump audiences gives them achance to project their
subconscious desires.
So the reason that the authorwrote this really intricate
relationship between Naruto andSasuke is largely because Japan
is so culture replessed aboutrelationships, and he admits in
his own interviews that hedoesn't know what male-female
relationships are, so heromanticized the shit out of a

(45:36):
bromance.
Thus the bromance is betterwritten because he lacks
relationship experience, asevident from these interviews,
and I'm like, I thought you'dhave no thoughts on Naruto and
Sasuke.
Not well thought out,constructive, cited thoughts.
Like, it's I just didn't expectto go into a room and be like,
here's what I think aboutCyberpunk 2077, and the prop be

(45:56):
like, uh, actually, you shouldcheck out this reading and this
reading about it.
That's what caught me off guard.
Like, imagine you go into yourmusic theory class and be like,
my favorite song is Requiem uhRequiem for a Spiral from Guren
Logan, and then they're givingyou four other references to
that.

SPEAKER_03 (46:13):
Yeah, and that's true.
My uh my music professors when Iwas in university uh were very
much those sticks in the mud.

SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
So, like in my undergrad, even one professor
caught most of my things I wastalking about, and the rest of
it would just go over theirhead.
And now it's just like, oh, Iget handed a silver platter
here.
One of my profs, like, yeah, I'mgonna take a one-year sabbatical
to talk about choose your ownadventure novels, and I'm like,
oh, that's been my recenthyperfixation.
Neat.

SPEAKER_03 (46:42):
Meanwhile, I'm back here returning to work, which
which means uh you know, peoplesmoking crack out our back door
and then flashing at the DairyQueen across the street.

SPEAKER_00 (46:52):
Well, it's funny because like the people I
interact with are more paranoidthan the ones you interact with,
because like, as you mentioned,yeah, people smoking crack at
the street, and people are like,oh, you're going out late in
Toronto, and I'm like, I haveliterally no fear.
Like, none, none fears, becauseit's like, yeah, no, life is
great.
What are you talking about?
It's like I'm so like one of myclassmates will be like, I'm so

(47:13):
stressed, I have this paper dueand then this grading due in my
day job, and uh, and I'm justlike, Cool, I'm doing the same
stuff as you, have two morejobs, and have never been more
well rested in my life.
What are we talking about?
Like, you know what I actuallyhave to do this weekend that I'm
procrastinating by having thisepisode happen?
So, I want to get in draft threeof that ghostwriting project by

(47:36):
midnight because our contract'sover, and I want to start up my
next contract, and I don't wantto have two contracts going at
once.
So I have to make sense.

SPEAKER_03 (47:45):
Then tomorrow it's Halloween, so you have to finish
the ghostwriting project.

SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
Absolutely.
So I have no Halloween plans.
A bunch of my cohort went out tothis like holiday spook thing
yesterday while there's likeoutdoors.
So I, despite saying I have nofear, have a ton of fear.
But not healthy fear.
So, Carl, you know me prettywell.
What would happen if someonejumped up behind me with a knife
and yelled boo?

SPEAKER_03 (48:09):
Oh, they would they would get punched in the face
for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (48:12):
Yeah.
So I'm like, I should not putmyself in this situation where
people are jumping out behind meand going boo, because there's
fight, flight, fawn in the otherone.
And I'm pretty coded to flightfight at this point due to
various dramatic backstorymoments.

SPEAKER_03 (48:28):
So I think it's if there was blood, you would
probably throw up and then runaway.

SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
No, if there's blood, I'd probably like make
there be more blood, then throwup.
Like, they die first, and then Ithrow up on the corpse of this
poor this poor drama intern justtrying to like build the resume,
gets hit by a fan, and thenthrown up on.
Because as we know, if spooked,I will hit people with a fan.

(48:57):
Not like a fun folding one, likea floor fan.
Yeah, well, I mean anything youcan get your hands on, really.
So, like, they would have beenhit by an umbrella, and I'm
sorry, that's just a reaction.
So, like, they're off at thisHalloween thing yesterday, and
I'm like, hmm, they're like, Yougoing it?
I'm like, nope.
It's like you said that sopositively.
I'm like, yeah, I'm meeting upwith my friend to watch the

(49:17):
couple new episodes of HasbenHotel, eat some fajitas, and
then go to bed and sleep for 12hours, it's gonna be great.
So that's my life today, is Ihave to ghost write.
My life tomorrow is I have towrite these two proposals for
this conference and this scienceliterature art class.
And had I warned you and likesent you details on this

(49:38):
conference, we probably wouldhave spent this episode
brainstorming what I can writeabout.
Right, right.
So I'm leaning towards an idea.
The Gattaca point's really good,actually.
That's like, that is a topcontender.
And then Sunday I have to writesome stat blocks for my next
ghost writing project.
And I am stoked about that.
They liked my demo creature.

(50:00):
So, the version I didn't use,because I don't want to talk
about things in an upcomingproject and spoil myself.
I'm not under an NDA, this isjust like courtesy.
But the version I didn't use wasthis stone golem that when you
get it down to a quarter health,it creates a wall of force
around you, trapping you in theroom with it.
And it's designed to like splitthe party, so half of you is
stuck in the bubble and theother half are stuck outside the

(50:22):
bubble.
And the bubble breaks in threehits.
So you have the strategy of doyou try and kill the creature
you know is half dead because itput up this bubble, or do you
try and escape and reunite theparty?
That's pretty sick, right?
Especially since Daggerheart,you get to choose the turn order
of who does what.
Right, right.
And then the final version beinglike I misinterpreted what they
wanted the creature to do, but Igave them a different version

(50:43):
anyway, because I wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_01 (50:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (50:46):
So I have to put out like 20 Daggerheart creatures
every couple weeks, and I'mlike, sweet.
It's not academic writing.
I actually get a player out withnumbers.
And Daggerheart put out theBlood Hunter class for
Halloween.
Ooh.
Which has the werewolf subclass,the ghost hunter subclass, and
the other subclass.
So I'm probably gonna like and abunch of blood domain cards.

SPEAKER_03 (51:10):
Um maybe I should have let uh Leroy Leroy die and
created a new character.
It could have been interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (51:18):
I will say though, if you ever want to just switch
characters and let your backupcharacter like, if you want to
make a new main character, yourbackup character just turns into
an NPC till needed.
Because I think it would be kindof funny to start next session
with you being a new characterwho climbs this mountain and
finds an abandoned little girl.

SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
Like there is some pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 (51:38):
There is some narrative satisfaction to you
making a new character, findingthe NPC, while your old
character is just off doing sidequest-y stuff.
Like, there is some funnarrative toys we can play with.
It like makes me think of FinalFantasy 8, uh 6, where the party
splits into three and you justfollow the other characters for
a while.
So I would absolutely allowthat, since it's one-on-one DD,

(51:59):
there's a certain like flair tothat.

SPEAKER_03 (52:02):
Well, I don't know.
For for now, I'm I'm still happywith Leroy.
I'm happy that he did that hedid not die in our last session.
Sorry, spoiler alerts.

SPEAKER_00 (52:10):
I mean, I am saying though you could make a wolf man
character that's aware humanthat turns into human mode.

SPEAKER_02 (52:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:23):
I don't know how that would really work or if it
would be cool or not, but Iwouldn't stop you.
I'm actually been playing aroundwith the blood domain a bit
today, because I kinda want toput out a plague doctor class
that's Splendor for Healing andBlood for Being Evil.
Mmm.
And give them like powers themedon the four humors because the
more research I do into randomcrap, the more like inspiration

(52:46):
I get for other random crap.

SPEAKER_03 (52:48):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (52:49):
Like I did a Pokemon-esque type chart based
on 16th century alchemy, andlike one of them was like sulfur
type, and another one was likeMercury type, and it was like
They have this whole thing ofhow the elements interact that's
fascinating.
And I do think like morescientifically based than
Pokemon, which is funny becausethere's no science in alchemy,
but they think there is.

(53:13):
So it was strong against poison,but poison corrupts the moon to
make it into the sun.
I'm like, what is this mathyou're smoking?
Outside of the pizza place.
So yeah, I've just been up toprojects, and it's like, time is
blint.
Like at some point, someone'slike, there's like four weeks
worth of the term, and like thefuck you just say to me.

SPEAKER_03 (53:33):
Hmm.
Uh the radio station that Ilisten to the most often in in
here is uh they're doing um baglunch countdown, or how many uh
more times you'll have to makelunch for your kid if they go to
elementary school in the area.

SPEAKER_00 (53:49):
That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 (53:51):
Uh I I think the last I think today is like 135,
135 bag lunches left till theend of the school year.

SPEAKER_00 (53:58):
So I firmly believe we should just up taxes on
everybody and pay for schoollunches.
So let's put it this way.
Say taxes go up, t straight uptaxes go up 10%.
That doesn't actually affect myday-to-day survival in a
meaningful way.
I lose like 60 bucks a check.
However, that same damagehappening to like rich people

(54:20):
means children just get to eat,which then takes a massive
burden off parents becausethere's just one less male they
have to care about.

SPEAKER_03 (54:28):
That's true.
If you could actually savesomeone 60 bucks over the course
of two weeks, then losing the 60bucks would be the net same, but
they would have less things toworry about.

SPEAKER_00 (54:39):
So if it we worked out, A, it's a quality for
children, because then equallynutrient children mean they're
able to study better, do betterin school, takes the stress off
parents.
Most of the funding then comesfrom rich people because of how
percentages work.
So I'm like, if I was told Ilose$60 a paycheck, so children
just got fed.
I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_03 (55:01):
And that's why you're a communist.

SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
Yeah, I'm fine with that.
Remember the part where youmentioned someone's there's a
risk of people just smokingcrack near your life?
Fun fact, if they were fedthrough school, they might not
be on the street smoking crackright now because they finished
school because they weren'thungry every day, they didn't
have to drop out to feedthemselves, and then end up with
like debilitated crackaddictions.
Like, yeah, I'm not a communist.

(55:26):
I just believe that the richpeople could pay the poor people
more.
Like, you still get to be richin this situation.
I want to be very clear.
Like, the percentage you lose,you still get your yacht, which
I watched this beautiful JoshJohnson special yesterday.
So imagine you will.
You're a billionaire, right?
Billions of dollars.
And you drop a billion dollarson a boat, right?

SPEAKER_01 (55:46):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
And then you have a pool on your boat because you're
surrounded by water.
You you're in a bucket.
You bought a bucket.
The ocean's around you, you canswim it.
No, that water's not goodenough.
Imagine your dumbass has abillion dollars so you could
literally buy yourself a giantrobot.
But you spend it on a boat tohave rooms on it that are
crappier than an averageapartment because they have to
be on a boat.

(56:07):
For the privilege of being inwater, but not the water around
you.
And there's like a kitchen onit, it's like crappier than my
kitchen in my real-worldapartment.
It's like a billion dollars, a bbillion dollars to have a
kitchen net on the ocean.
And it's like, uh, these are thepeople people are like, oh,
you're a billionaire becauseyou're a genius.

(56:28):
You're like, a genius wouldn'tspend that much money to have a
crappy apartment on the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 (56:32):
I I've always kind of wanted a houseboat, though.

SPEAKER_00 (56:35):
Yeah.
But then you live in it, and ityou didn't put a pool on your
house boat because you'resurrounded by the goddamn ocean.
But my point being that I am notsaying capitalism's bad.
I'm saying people who whine tolower taxes who then would
directly benefit off of thosetaxes suck.
It's like I need to I want that$60 because it's more important

(56:57):
to me than every child in Canadabeing fed.
I'm like, screw you.
I think most of your friendswould be like, no, I'm not
paying the$60, so less peoplestab me on the street for food.

SPEAKER_03 (57:12):
Yeah, well.
But I think uh we're coming upwith about an hour here.
Alright, so I do have a randomquestion, or I do, but it's not
one that was submitted.

SPEAKER_00 (57:24):
It was one that came up in class yesterday that may
extend the length of thispodcast drastically.

SPEAKER_03 (57:29):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (57:30):
What work of fiction do you believe would make the
best immersive experience?
So, like, say anything work offiction gets a theme park, and
everyone in that theme park arepart of the players.
Like Harry Potter Land, whereeveryone's dressed as wizards,
and it's like a mix of like LARPand theme park.
What work of fiction do youthink would make the best
immersive experience?

(57:52):
That not only is fun to enjoy,but expands the text.
Let's you be like a character inthe story.
What work of fiction would youuse?
And you can't use Jurassic Park,because that's easily the best
idea.
That's why they keep trying.

SPEAKER_03 (58:16):
Um the the very first thing to note is that it
it has like you say, it has tobe a work of fiction uh that
fairly closely mirrors uh ouractual day-to-day life, so that
other people just wearing theirplain clothes won't break the
immersion.

SPEAKER_00 (58:35):
Or the counterpoint is if you go hard in on making
people follow rules.
So in Disneyland, if you show updressed as a Disney princess,
they will not let you in thepark.
They will just beat you becauseyou ruined the immersion for
other people.
So, like, you could go hardcorewith it.
Like, you could be like, I'mdoing Star Wars Land, but you
need to come in for a fullscreening, and if you're not

(58:55):
committed to this LARP, youcannot come in.

SPEAKER_03 (59:01):
I mean, I s I suppose so.
If if you're gonna force peopleto actually like dress up and
and be in some sort ofcharacter.

SPEAKER_00 (59:11):
So, like, my first thought for this one, and also
in this situation, like theamazing staycast, you have tons
of disposable income to set thisup.
So I am really partial to myDigimon land idea, where we have
this theme park, right?
That's mostly like a regularpark park.
Grass, water, biomes, but you'regiven AR goggles as soon as you

(59:33):
go in that show the Digimonaround, like Pokemon Ghost
style.
So when you're wearing thegoggles, you interact with the
Digimon and they like fuck withthe lights and things.
So you're given like yourDigivice and you're given your
like VR partner Digimon.
And like if you like like itwould be a very AR experience,
but part of why I think that IPspecifically would work well is

(59:56):
it's an IP about creaturesliving in a parallel world to
yours.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:01):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:01):
So like when you have your goggles on, you get to
see like the actual digitalworld stuff.
Like you'll like, oh, this is alovely gondola, and you put your
eyes out and you just see a CDemon crushing it to death.
I think I could make a reallycool Digimon world.
Which is ambitious, but a dudein the regular polo shirt's fine
because they're not engagingwith it, and then you just like

(01:00:21):
watch like this bird thing starteating them.
You're like, ha! It's eatingyour soul.
I mean, there's also the obviousone at the Hunger Games theme
park where I just kill 12people.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:36):
Well, I mean, that would be very immersive.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:38):
I mean, Mr.
Beast is all about watching theSquid Game and realizing, yes,
the takeaway for Squid Game is Ishould run a Squid Game.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:47):
Uh, well, you know, interestingly enough, uh,
they're trying to do an Americanversion of Squid Game.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:53):
Of course they are.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:53):
Um And uh Film Theory did a did a theory video
about you know what countrywould actually be best to do a
Squid Game.
And they're like, oh, actually,you know, the crushing societal
debt that is in in Korea is kindof close to the crushing
societal debt in North America,so they probably uh probably

(01:01:14):
actually chose a good parallelfor their their uh American.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:18):
Well, amazingly enough, America you could
probably just do it.
That's the thing is corporationshave so much legal power right
now after Citizens Unitedpassed, that if a corporation
said you signed a waiver for meto legally kill you, like that's
the country I think that's theclosest to just being legally
around to hunt people for sportwhen you're rich.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:39):
Oh hmm.
So what franchise do I thinkwould make the the best
immersive experience?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:49):
I gotta say, 2000 Leagues Under the Sea, you just
shove people in a submarine.
Pretty cost-efficient way to doit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:57):
Yeah, funny enough, I've never actually read 20,000
read 20,000 Leagues Under theSea.
It's a book I do want to read.
Uh, but I did read the sequel,The Mysterious Island.
Um, that was actually a prettyinteresting.
You don't actually need to read20,000 Leagues Under the Sea to
understand what's going on onthe Mysterious Island.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:15):
Kind of like you can read the menuette of sorcery
without reading the Waltz ofBlades, which is available on
Amazon.
I don't know why I feelself-brooe today, but I do.
Or probably because I openedwith that MRI bit.
Yeah, that would do it.
Note to self give someone MRIpowers.

(01:02:38):
MRI powers was a sick conceptand a terrible concept, and they
happened so close together thatweek.
So I saw one where they did areal-world hunter exam.
So Hunter Hunter itself would behard to make an immersive

(01:02:59):
experience of all the Nen andthe nonsense.
But the first plot arc wouldn't.
Right, right.
Because you just run a hunterexam.
You have them run, you have themsteal people's badges.
Like most of the things thathappened in the first arc of
Hunter Hunter, you could justdo.
So it would be kind of sick tosign up for this three-day
hunters exam where you do like adramatic forest run, you build

(01:03:20):
the quiz tower, you have thebadge stealing thing.
Like you could you skip thefight tournament at the end
because that doesn't really fitwell.
Instead, I'd have them probablydo like four you know, like the
Wii fencing where you're on likethe foam source on a platform.
So I'd probably give them soccerboblers and a platform for the
fight at the end.
But you could just do a hunter'sexam.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:44):
Hmm, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:54):
If Aaron is there being like, I don't think this
is dumb and I'm not gonnaparticipate.
Okay, well you still had to jogfor an hour, so guess you're
kicked out then.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:09):
I don't know, maybe maybe I'm being too small
brained, but I I just uhapparently because like you
could just do a Battle Citytournament.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:18):
Where you just hand out a bunch of duelists and have
to find someone else with aduelist to play cards against.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:23):
Actually, yeah, you're right.
I th I think I think Yu-Gi-Ohwould actually probably be one
of the one of the best mostimmersive experiences where
you're just like wanderingaround in the island because
modern technology, aside fromthe holograms, can actually uh
affect.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I Yu-Gi-Oh! I I think I wouldgo with Yu-Gi-Oh!

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:46):
Awesome.
I gave a few examples, and I dothink I'm actually leaning
towards the hunter exam, becauseI do think that would be like
with no AR, no fancy, if youlike.
Straight up ran it, but did yoursets really well.
And I would absolutely payprofessional cosplayers to just
be in the hunter exam incharacter.
Like, it would be sick to doJohn Your Log and just see like

(01:05:07):
a couple really good HunterHunter Killia and Lirio cosplays
just mixed in with the regularcompetitors would be kind of
awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:16):
Yeah, but I mean, I think it would also be kind of
awesome, like Yu-Gi-Oh has kindof gotten ridiculous, um, but
the idea that if you could dosome sort of immersive like
trading card game, and then atthe end of it, you actually get
to keep the cards that you getthrough the through the uh arc
and stuff, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:36):
Like, Duelist Kingdom would be sick,
especially like I said, you'dput in some pay cost players and
actors to be the characters withtheir decks, and then let in a
bunch of regular ass people.
And you have to like go findlike the dueling stations in
this like island you rent out.
Like, you rent out like a bigchunk around Banff to set up
this with like your sets andthings.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:55):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:56):
Yeah, you could do a sick Duelist Kingdom.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:59):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that'd be pretty fun.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:01):
But with that, thank you everyone for listening to
Richard and Carl present DeepSpace and Dragons.
Carl is still very much alive.
I've reclaimed the titleposition because I think I
answered the random question ofthe week better.
And if you would like to submityour random question of the
week, just Google RichardKievis.
Like, I am so easy to stalk itis absurd.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:22):
Yeah, I I don't know how easy I am to stalk.
Um I've never I guess that'sfair.
Carl redacted.
I I don't know that I actuallyhave much of an online presence,
but let's see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:36):
Uh, it led you to a German economist.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:39):
Ah, yeah.
Yeah, see that's the thing.
I I have the German spelling ofof my name, uh, which means that
if you're searching in NorthAmerica, you're just less likely
to find me because most peoplewill hear Carl's to see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:53):
And apparently there's a different Carl and
Richard, which most notablyAustralian TV personalities.
Alright, so you're harder tofind.
I'm real easy to find.
So if you go Carl and RichardChemis, we show up instantly.
The closer you get to me, theeasier it is.
Oh man.
Episode 8 being called on thewings of the beetle.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:18):
I'm just riding on your coattails.
Uh but one one last thing thatwas new with me that I forgot to
mention.
Ooh, spicy.
Well, no, I I sent you a pictureof of my my pumpkin carving.
Um Pokemon.com has uh stencilsfor different Pokemon.
I uh I'm not actually a fan ofthem uh because a lot of them

(01:07:39):
are too intricate.
Uh but the Rowlett one was verycute and I carved it.
But now I I kind of regret itbecause it's not a well-designed
stencil for an actual pumpkin.
It kind of it kind of is likesagging and drooping, but I
carved it and it was cool and Iliked it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:55):
You know what's really, really funny and troll
worthy?
So I Googled Pokemon Stencil,right?
And the first one that popped upwas an Agumon stencil.
You had one job, internet, andyou failed so well.
They failed so successfully.
Uh but yeah, I think I told youfor my gingerbread cookies for I

(01:08:18):
did Pokemon Stencils, uh,Pokemon Cookie Cutters, so they
were little gingerbreadCharmanders.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:24):
Because I'm a cool person with cool interests.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:30):
But anyways, I uh I should probably you know your
audio.
Okay, so thanks again for forall to all our listeners uh for
just hearing us rant about ourlives.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:41):
I am so sad the cutout didn't commit there
because you wanted to.
You can't even hear me rightnow.
Oh man, that's gonna be a messyepisode ending.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:50):
Oh, I can hear you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:52):
Yeah, like you cut out for a second, and then I was
like talking, and then it waslike playing or like a sign out,
so like they're gonna hear as Italked while you talk
simultaneously.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:07):
Bye! Bye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:09):
I'm really surprised you didn't have pull some wild
theme park concept out of yourbutt.
I always expect you to be like,guys, listen.
If you're willing to kill somepeople, Frankenstein Land would
be sick.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:22):
I haven't read Frankenstein yet.
I w I've I've been meaning to,but I haven't I haven't read it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:28):
Oh or like a Kirby Dream Course where you like
throw Kirby's and play minigolfwith them.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:37):
Dang it! Sometimes I'm really bad at being put on
the spot, but the Kirby Kirby'sDream Course was a great game.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:44):
Maybe it's just a platelet problem and they're
reducing your ability to becreative.
Because you have too manyplatelets now.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:52):
Maybe.