When helping someone becomes your entire relationship, is it still friendship? Also prequels.

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Richard and Karl explore the philosophical question of analyzing relationships objectively, debating whether approaching friendships with analytical detachment is valuable or potentially harmful.

• Karl describes a relationship where he's helped someone significantly but feels minimal emotional connection
• Richard explains how he evaluates friendships based on whether they add value to his life
• Both hosts agree on having limited capacity for deep relationships and needing to prioritize connections
• Different approaches to measuring friendship value, from emotional support to shared interests
• Richard shares his misadventures, including accidentally taking a train to the wrong city
• Extensive discussion of what makes prequels successful versus disappointing in various franchises
• Analysis of Star Wars, Final Destination, and other notable prequel examples
• The importance of exploring new perspectives rather than simply setting up known events
• Random question segment about projecting sensory experiences onto others
• Final thoughts on sounds that instantly make the hosts happier

If you enjoyed our Daggerheart gameplay from last week and want to see more, let us know in the comments! Visit daggerheart.com to try the game for yourself.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Carl, get to it, do your job.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I thought it was your job to introduce Deep Space and
Dragons.
It is Richard and Carl Presents, after all.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good job.
Now I won't have to hire aunion scab to replace you.
As my esteemed co-hostmentioned.
It is Carl, and RichardPresents Deep Space and Dragons.
I'm Richard this week, I'm Carlthis week, alright, so what's
new in the Carlverse?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay Well, so I guess I have a sort of philosophical
question for you.
I'm not sure how that.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Last time this resulted in me complaining
angrily about tipping for like20 minutes.
So you've just been warned likeI have like a whole bit
prepared with the what's newwith me, but please go.
That has something to directlyin favor with that train of
thought, but go ahead okay.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
so, um, I, I know someone and, uh, we were
co-workers.
I try to be polite, respectful,friendly, friendly, whatever
and they showed that I couldtrust them and that they
respected me Right.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Seems fake but please continue.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
So so then you know, when they needed help and I had
the capacity to help, I wouldhelp them, and so I probably
have done more for this personthan the average friend would do
.
Like you know, I helped themget a car, I helped them get a
job, I helped them find anapartment, and every time it's
like they proved again and againthat they respected me and that

(01:39):
I could trust them.
And you know, I talked aboutunequal relationships when I was
talking about the being invitedto that funeral.
Yes, and, and I inadvertently,uh, created an unequal
relationship because to me, theentire foundation of this

(02:00):
relationship is that trust andrespect.
But I'm looking at it and I'mlike I'm not really that
emotionally involved.
It's, it's.
It's just about the fact thatthey need help.
I have the capacity to helpthem, I can trust them, they
respect me, so I will help themthis must be so fascinating to
people who click subscribebecause they listened to us play
dnd last week.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
We might be doing that more in the future and we
may put it on a separate channel.
We might not, but I don't know.
Click that like Send usmessages.
That can affect the future.
But please continue to give ita disclaimer that there will in
fact be no Daggerheart afterthis story this week, because,
oh man.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, so, um thinking about it analytically, um you
know, we don't really have thatmuch in common.
They don't like.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
D&D or magic.
I love how I know exactly whothis is, but please continue.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
So they don't like D&D or magic, they don't like
anime or manga.
What are they?
60?
We're not part of each other'score emotional support.
Like you know, don't message tosee how our days are going.
Sometimes it'll be months ormaybe even years where we don't
talk to each other.
But I mean, you know, at the endof the day there's that core

(03:19):
foundation of the relationshipwhich sounds like a solid
foundation of trust and respect,except that the relationship,
at least on my side, isn't verypersonal that's an interesting
statement, right but obviouslyI've helped them out a lot, I've
made a huge impact in theirlives, and so they would go so

(03:42):
far as to say I'm a best friend,even though those last three
categories of things that weactually have in common and how
often we talk to each other,it's like I I don't know if
that's actually best friendterritory, as much as it's just
like I've helped them out a lotI'm about to say something very
savage, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
So if someone's running the analytics, bleach is
probably the anime I talked themost about on this show for
some reason, and it just makesme think of when momo got
stabbed and eisen goes.
Admiration's the furthest thingfrom understanding.
We weren't friends, we weren'tanything.
And I'm like, yeah, they're,they're, you're momo.
You're like, yeah, carl, yeah,you're Momo.

(04:24):
You're like, yeah, carl'samazing.
And you're like, no, what.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, ok, so I mean, my philosophical question is
I've noticed that it seems thatpeople get upset when I talk
about relationships in thisanalytical way.
I talk about relationships inthis analytical way and I'm just
wondering do you think there isvalue in approaching

(04:52):
relationships analytically likethis, or do you think it's just
hurtful and you just shouldn'tsay anything and just try to be
kind, polite and respectful?

Speaker 1 (05:01):
So I need to give a bit of a disclaimer for
long-time listeners.
So I'm neurodivergent, I ammotor dysplexic, adhd on the
autistic spectrum.
So, as a general rule, the ideathat Carl came to me, an
autistic supervillain, forwhether or not you should judge

(05:23):
people analytically, is aninteresting choice.
I mean, I'm also like a litmajor who's like it's like.
I study emotion soscientifically, like that's my
thing, like I got honors for myability to hear a story and
analyze the people in it, coldand impartially, like one of my

(05:47):
literal day jobs is listen toupsetting things and
restructuring it to cause aemotional reaction I want out of
things.
So, yes, emotionally analyzingrelationships is a thing I do.
My support group and friendcircle are actually amazing.
They make me cry with cry withrelative frequency, with
good-hearted, nice gestures.
So the thing is, in my old ageI have like, especially after

(06:16):
spending four years in collegewith various people, both
likable and not.
I have zero tolerance for peoplewho don't add value to my life
and I don't mean it just like ina financial social battery
system.
I mean, does this personimprove some aspect of my

(06:39):
existence and approval could bea friend of mine?
Mess message me today that said, hey, just a heads up.
I was at an event and I starteddancing because somehow that's
when I don't feel shy, when I'mdoing belting out pink pony club
, that is value to my life.
That is objectively addingvalue as I'm living my life,

(06:59):
working on my project to getthis message and I'm like this
message added value to myexistence because stories are
valuable.
Right, like someone who givesan entertaining.
Quality of life is a value to mebut, like I said, I'm never
gonna pass the.
Do you judge people objectively?
Are you a good person, badperson?
Do you analyze people?

(07:20):
It can't be me I'm.
Yeah, I judge everybody all thetime.
I can't help it, my brain I haveto add humanity artificially
back into my text to not flag anai detector.
My brother has watched me walkhim through.
I'm like, all right, we'llre-edit this paragraph to this.
It's like that flag the aidetector.
I'm like, okay, I have to be 4%sassier on it to not flag the

(07:43):
detector.
So like for me, yeah, liketalking about people objectively
, that's how I make sense of theworld.
Like I can easily list thethings I like about my friends.
I can list the things I dislike.
I can list whether they addstress or remove stress One of

(08:05):
my best non-Carl friends, whooccasionally beats you in the
ranking board.
Also, you ask the guy who has ahypothetical ranking board of
people whether or not it'sethical to judge people.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
But like the person who occasionally beats you on
the ranking board.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
This is philosophical , not ethical, yeah, not ethical
, yeah, but like,philosophically speaking, the
person in my number one placefor like my favorite person on
earth is also the most reliableperson I've ever met.
The person in second is you,and you're often tied with the
person in third, who's like howcan I put this?
They're not cold and logical,but they're like a very

(08:42):
impassioned person about theircauses and we have great
arguments, okay, but we alsohave like a massive overlap of
like nerd interests.
This is a friend I've mentionedin passing before where they
have like a, not a rule, butit's like avoid watching things
that don't have any kind of LGBTrepresentation, because it's

(09:04):
not that hard when you have acast of 100 characters to have
at least one gay one, right.
So it's like that's a personI'll back and forth politics
with, but like, yeah, I have noproblem if someone should be
like, oh, this person, theyconsider me one of their best
friends.
I'm like I'm such you've heardme give rants off stream.

(09:27):
I'm like people who will belike I'm so proud of you and
I'll be like what's the namecharacter in my book?
And they're like well, Ipromise I'll read it.
I'm like, yeah, you're not.
No, like you have a surfacelevel interest in me, and that's
fine.
There's not that many people onmy day off.
I'm going to text the messagechat to you so I can talk about
a subclass homebrew I'm workingon, or whatever it is I'm

(09:50):
talking about so it's like yeahI have people I'll occasionally
message on, like holiday specialoccasions.
One acquaintance who, afterbeing like your book, made me no
longer care about fiction Ikind of fell out of touch with
because it's I'm off to be anartist and I'm like well, that's
silly, I'm like well I thinkthat fundamentally means we

(10:11):
don't really mesh as people,cause, despite being often broke
, I legitimately don't careabout money, like I need enough
to survive.
And then I'm like, yeah, asmentioned before, as a
professional writer I don't makemore money right now than I did
as a kitchen manager, but I ama way happier being.
I am like profoundly bettermental health.

(10:33):
Went out for a couple hour walktoday.
Got a bit of sun on me likesunshine and birds singing.
Even when I'm like having arent related meltdown, I'm still
in better mental health thanwhen I had relatively stable
income.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
So I think I didn't answer your question, but I'm
passing the spotlight back toyou oh, I like that oh, I got
that from dagger heart and it'sgreat um, well see, uh, this
relationship is is in perilbecause of personality conflicts
and, uh, I'm just like, am Irationalizing the potential end

(11:18):
of of a what I would consider afriendship?
Yes or, uh, am I actuallylogically and impartially
judging a relationship and beinglike, hmm, this is very
one-sided and I don't know ifthat's healthy?

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Also yes.
So I found a contact with acouple of my college friends
over the like four years ofcollege, around here too, and on
my last day I thought to tomyself do I go up to them?
Do I try and add some closure?
Do I be like it was?
We had a really good two yearsand a shitty third year and a
decent fourth year.
Do I give like an amicalgoodbye?

(11:55):
And then I had an epiphanylooking at my friends who are
there to support me and myfriends, and the epiphany and
I'm gonna use up my f-bombearlier this week was to quote
veget Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z,Abridged Broly Movie Fuck them,
they can live their life, I'lllive mine, Literally.
I learned today that if youGoogle my first name author in

(12:17):
Brampton, I show up in the topsearch results.
Yeah.
So the reason I say this isanyone on earth can reach out to
me with relativies.
It's not hard.
You, there's a good chance.
I show up in your youtube feed,like it's really not hard to
get a message to me if you'rereally trying, right.
So I kind of live my life inthat way.
We're like I'll reach out topeople I care about and if

(12:41):
people reach out to me great,but I'm not going to put in more
energy into a system if it'snot worth the system.
Like I keep like a cap of 10friends.
Some people just kind of phaseout and sometimes it's like I
really like you as a person.
We get along pretty well.
But I don't have it in me totake a two hour bus ride to hang

(13:03):
out for half an hour than takea two-hour bus ride home on my
day off.
Sorry.
And it's like such a cold,analytical thing to be.
Like how long of a bus ridewould I go out to hang out with
this person?
So to go play D&D this weekendit took me a half-hour bus to an
hour train to an hour walk.
I really care about thosepeople.

(13:24):
That is enough time to make itmost of the way through to the
original Digimon Adventure.
That is enough time to beatMega man X, 1 and 2.
So I would rather go spend timewith them than beat the
original Final Fantasy.
They're pretty good people.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Right, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
I only have enough lifespan left to do everything
I've ever done in my life, twicemore.
I gotta start being cautiouswith this.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Anyway, I mean, that's really all that's new
with me this week, aside from amini series review of Final
Destination, but that ties intoour main actual topic, so I was
going to shift the spotlight toyou and see what's new in your
stage.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
So somewhat prepared remarks, but not really.
I want to be an edgy badass,like I've always want to be the
Steins Gate guy who's aneedlessly elaborate
supervillain or Dr Horrible.
But I'm not always like, wantto be the steins gate guy who's
a needlessly elaborate supervillain or dr horrible but I'm
not right.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
You did flick mud at me one time, then got mad when I
tried the same techniqueagainst you because your shirt
was white yeah, but my problemis so some people are how can I
put this?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
I don't want to say defective, that's mean, but some
people are boring, inept.
And then there's people who aresitcom inept.
So in a boring inept person's,like, oh, they're trying to be
nice, but they tell you you pickthe wrong structure, jack.
So odds are, because you have aworst legendary creature,
you're not going to win thetournament and they're trying to

(15:02):
get your mood down before thetournament starts and it's just
level.
That ineptness isn'tentertaining for anybody
involved, right, it's just likeoh, they fumbled their social
gut crisis.
I'm sitcom inept, which meansthat things that happened to me
are too comical that I couldever be an actual villain.
Who isn't dr Doofenshmirtz,right?

(15:22):
So I'm trying to get to a book,signing a book launch on
Redacted Day, right, redactedDay, all right.
I messed up my previous transittrip to meet up with a friend
for an open mic because I missedmy train by like three minutes,
bummer.
So this was a new week, a newlocation.

(15:43):
Location.
I'm volunteering at a thingwith a friend.
I see the train leaving.
I run to get on the train.
It was an express train in thewrong direction.
I ended up in the wrong cityand it took me about two hours
to get back to my starting point.
So I like, sent them a selfiebeing like.
So I ended up going the exactopposite direction and it's
mathematically impossible for meto get there in time.

(16:04):
I did not intend to ditch you.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Here I am frowning a selfie with the Welcome to City
of Kitchener sign behind me.
Did you stop for Krispy Kremedonuts?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
No, because I had to like then get on because the
next train wasn't for threehours.
I had to because I was likedirectly between the end of the
morning rush and perfect for theevening one, so I had to like
get on my go bus that was thereimmediately to take my hour and
a half back bus ride through thecountryside home, and it was
like a beautiful ride.
like it was a beautiful breezeI'd never seen this part before

(16:36):
like it was no one on the bus.
It was a lovely failure home.
But whilst I was chilling on mylovely failure at home, reading
a book, feeling bad that I leta friend down but also knew that
I'd get away with it becausethey knew I was suffering more
than them, because it's not thatI ditched them, it's that,
instead of being with them to dothe fun thing, I'm spending an

(16:59):
equal amount of time achievingnothing Right right.
That was my epiphany today.
I'm like man I want to play theantagonist.
But I also am the kind ofperson to just get on the wrong
bus and end up in the wrong cityon my normal commute like.
That is an episode of seinfeldthat happened to me.
I'm the kind of person to losea boxing match in an inflatable

(17:21):
jumpy castle, so I don't get tojust be like.
I don't get to be be like Idon't get to be cool and I don't
get to be lame because I'm toobusy being ridiculous so to be
fair, I did have some uh amateurboxing training uh from a from
a friend.
I was with you.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I did the same training well, obviously it
stuck better than with me so sowhere I'm going with this?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
So I ran three Daggerheart one-shots over the
last couple weeks.
I ran the one with you, I ranone on the weekend and I ran a
second solo one, to judge howbad you are at Daggerheart.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Oh, how bad am I.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
They lived, but that's because I let them tell
me what animal their mount wasfor the cart.
And then they brought theirmount with them, which absorbed
some damage.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
So the difference between success and failure was
they brought the NPC.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, I had a chance and I did not.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
So honestly, it came down to a single dice roll with
you, which made it more epic.
I'm happy it ended the way itdid.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, I digress so.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm running this session, I'm describing the city
that's taking place and I dropthe line.
It's a kind of city where it'scold and gray, where you just
feel the wind.
It's basically a glorified rest.
Stop along the road and youlook across the street and watch
a couple people steal a picnictable and one of my friends goes
.
Oh, it's funny when you tellthis story because I know you

(18:47):
committed the crime.
So it's like you went tochicago, pulled out a gun, shot
someone like what's with all thecrying here?
And I laughed so hard.
There was tears in my eyesbecause it's like, yeah, that's
kind of the story is.
I'll be like, oh, saskatoonsure sucks.
There's just people gettinghigh on the streets.
Was the person you that's funnybut yeah, so that's kind of what

(19:19):
my thing has been of reading alot of dagger heart homebrewing
stuff, failing to transportmyself to places twice in a row.
Like I've been doing a lot ofdagger heart homebrewing stuff,
failing to transport myself toplaces twice in a row.
Like I've been doing a lot ofevents, doing a lot of writing,
doing a lot of research, doingmy work and jobs and things.
So like my summer's been prettyawesome.
Like I got a birthday presenttoday.

(19:40):
That's a punko, fop pop, gundamEpion.
That's sitting on my ledge.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Gundam Epion.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, Funko Pop Gundam.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Epion, but does it have an oversized head?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yes, I love it so much Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
So it's like I was.
So here's my problem.
I'm imagining the SD Gundam atbeyond from SD Gundam Online and
I'm just like how does thateven work?
But no, no, no, I can see howregular Gundams would transition
to Funko Pops.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, ironically, turning a regular Gundam into a
Funko Pop gets it pretty closeto being the SD Gundam.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
But with an oversized head.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh yeah, so long story short, other than it's
like.
It's so weird because I've beenin a good mood.
My normal misfortune has becomecomical to me while it's
happening, because it's like youfail to get there twice.
I'm like I did, but I managedto pay my rent by writing.

(20:42):
I was able to turn words intogroceries.
That's great.
That is an awesome feeling.
So, of course, I'm in themiddle of, of course, on
terrorism, fired, I'm inhalingsmoke because I missed my train.
That's balance, I can handle.
That that's great.
But yeah, pivoting from that, Ido, although I do find it funny

(21:05):
that I keep running thisDaggerheart intro adventure and
then being to like people.
It's like it's funny because wepredicted it, like how long the
adventure would take.
It's like, oh yeah, when youadd five people, it definitely
took the full time in thesession, zero and then straight.
So I had to invent a guard forthem to have a dramatic
backstory with, for them toassassinate, and it was

(21:26):
beautiful and one party memberplayed a clank, which is a
little robot man that was ahorrifying brought to life
toaster, and they ended upchopping up the body outside the
barrier of the town and feedingit into the toaster.
Jeez, and I'm like, oh, wow,wow.
And the thing is, I don't mindwhen parties murder, hobo

(21:48):
together, right, like they'refighting on the half of the
empire, and then they take thisguard.
And then they had a flashbackwhere the guard beat up one of
their, one of their uncles, whenthe farms got taken over.
So then they killed andexecuted this guard and I'm like
this is this is the mostcompetent teamwork I've ever
seen.

(22:09):
You're not sitting in a roomdebating how to open.
You're doing stuff, yes, and atone point one part of members
like do I, do they smell it?
I'm like, well, I did say itwas a barrier around the town.
So no, you just toasted thisman.
There's no remains left becausethey're not going to think.
You shoved it into ahuman-sized toaster oven and
walked away.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, okay, and even though I gave, them two murder
wraiths.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
The fight didn't quite like.
The fight went pretty well forthem.
I don't think anyone was in toomuch damage of dying.
There was a moment where therogue dodged five attacks and
they basically goku ultrainstinct around some swords.
Nice, like they're playing thisfrog assassin.
That was from captain laserhawk, a blood dragon remix.

(22:54):
So it's like literally like anassassin, creed assassin, but a
frog and his name is bullfrog.
Okay, so the player was likejust assassin and then had like
a full monologue when they gotjumped by these frog ambushers
and the party called themassassins.
It's like they don't haveformal training.
What are you talking about?
You have to earn this title.
So it's one of my favoritesessions I ever ran and I'm like

(23:17):
part of it is new game enginemakes me happy, but part of it
is people were in top form.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Oh, I actually I do have something else new, uh, I
mean, it's a couple weeks oldnow already, but, um, I don't
know if you've ever heard of thegame system mutants and
masterminds yes uh, charactercreation was incredibly complex
and I had no idea if I had donewhat I wanted to do.
Uh, but my DM was very competentand so, after session, zero, uh

(23:51):
, we, we did our first sessionand, um, I really love uh, uh,
parasite.
Yeah, parasite X, I think, isthe enemy Parasite, the maximum
Parasite, the maximum, that'swhat it is, where the guy gets
the parasite in his arm, yeah,and then, yeah, it's like
extendy whip arms.

(24:11):
So I basically I made thatcharacter very.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I like that so my weird DMing hot take is I kind
of love when players are justlike I'm going to run this
fictional character but changejust enough details to fit in
the setting.
I'm like that is such goodadvice for new players to just
be like I'm going to be SterlingArcher.
I'm like awesome as a DM, I canwork with that so easy.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
And the first thing to note about Mutants and
Masterminds I find it veryinteresting that there's no hit
point system.
Okay, minds, I find it veryinteresting that there's no hit
point system.
Uh, like I, I appreciate thehit point system in dagger heart
, uh, but a whole like it.
It made it feel a lot moretense than mass mutants and

(25:00):
mutants and master minds, uh.
But then at the same time itwas like I felt like I mean, I
guess maybe I'm not, becauseMutants and Masterminds is kind
of like a superhero-focused idea.
You know, you're supposed tofeel like you're this epic hero
and then you're getting bruisesinstead of taking hit points,
and then the bruises make youmore likely to fail the checks

(25:21):
and get the worst result whensomeone hits you.
Yeah, so it's very interesting.
It's like you roll for yourattack, they roll their check to
see how bad the damage is, andthen, if it's not that bad, they
just get a bruise thatsubtracts from their check for
future attacks, and then, if youfail by like 15 or more, then

(25:45):
you basically are out of thefight okay.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
so like um to mini tangent is one of the things I
really like about howdaggerheart's set up which
doesn't get talked about at all,because it's a weird thing to
like is it really restricts mydm powers and I love being able
to blame the game for being mean, because if it's like I have
these many points, like myfriend literally 3D printed me

(26:11):
an abacus so I could show myfear points.
So when I get to say things likeI get these many moves.
I only get to make moves inthese situations.
This fight's completely fair.
I'm running at balance,da-da-da-da-da, then I can kill
everybody.
Or if your rocks fall, everyonedies.
As a DM, there's no fun to that.
So it's like I enjoy, like itbeing gamified on my end too.

(26:36):
Like me trying.
Oh, I almost successfully stole.
I successfully stole thecarriage.
When I ran it one-on-one withthe other person.
They managed to like 360no-scope them from the tree, but
then the thug actually got away.
Oh, yeah, okay.
And then my other group justlike so they blew the cart up

(26:57):
with the person on it and thenstore the package inside this
toaster man.
The funny thing is I had theenemy force push the cart and
then the player force pushed thecart afterward and it's like
look, they force pushed it twice.
There's nothing I could do.
See, it's like I think that'sthe most dead I've ever

(27:20):
described a player is whensomeone force pushed a cart into
a frogman.
But I digress, you were talkingmutants.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Well, no, I just that was the number one thing that
stood out to me and also I justthought it was interesting that
it's like normally D&D 5thEdition is just the most
accessible tabletop RPG, but now, within the past month, it's
like I've played Mutants andMasterminds and I've played
Daggerheart and it's actuallyrefreshing to see the genuine

(27:54):
differences, with Daggerheartactually being surprisingly
different than D&D, whereMutants and Masterminds still
uses the D20 plus stats well,it's one thing I learned when I
was running TTRPG Club is Istopped trying to organize games

(28:16):
.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
I started declaring when I would be doing games and
if people came or not, that wastheir problem.
Like it's like I'm not hittingyou, I'm just going to spin my
arms and if I walk into you andyou don't move out of the way,
it's your fault.
But I've kind of like takenthat approach to gaming where
it's like I want to run thisgame, who wants to host me
running this game and who willbe there?
I mean, well, not so much mygroup.

(28:37):
There's full group consent, arunning joke when people are
making their backstories.
It's like I want to make aconnection with you, the other
person has to consent.
So one character's, oneplayer's husband literally went
oh, we should do this, I don'tconsent to knowing your
character like that.
And I'm like yes, that is therules.
I'm like sucks to be you.

(28:58):
You're lucky, you're married.
Because that was savage.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Oh yeah, so prequels.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I mean that's our actual topic for this week,
and I do, like I mentioned FinalDestination, the movie series.
Apparently there are books too.
I don't know if I'm investedenough to try and find and read
said books, but apparently it'sa whole multiverse.
Not multiverse, but a wholecinematic universe, I guess I

(29:34):
don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
You have time to read an entire cinematic universe of
books.
I was about to say, but haven'tread mine, except that I know
you have, and this doesn't workon you.
I love when people haven't readmy book.
It's such weird extortingenergy.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
But so it's like Final Destination 1 had some and
then storytelling, but overallwas a creative and original idea
when it came out.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Debatable, but yes, it was very creative.
It was bad Minority Report.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm pretty sure Final Destination came out first.
I don't think it did.
Now I've got to look it up,I've got to fact check.
We don't fact check very manythings, but Minority Report and
release dates is something wegot to Okay.
Minority Report came out in2002, and Final Destination, I

(30:33):
believe, came out in 2000.
Yeah, final Destination cameout first by two years.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, the short story , the Minority Report by Philip
K Dick, was first published inJanuary 1956.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay, but I mean the movies.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh yeah, no one writing a movie has ever read
short stories from famousauthors.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Anyways, I liked the idea.
I thought it was a creative andoriginal premise.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I knew that Minority Report was a short story because
I literally did the class onthis and I'm like I'm going to
get them.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
So good, take damage, dang you well, I mean, we're
each welcome to our own opinions.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, the correct one in Carl's.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Sometimes it's both.
Final Destination 2 was apretty decent sequel, but it
didn't really add anythinggenuinely new to the idea.
So it's a little bit worse thannumber one to the idea.
So it's a little bit worse thannumber one.
Number three I'd actuallytalked about this already on a

(31:48):
previous podcast, but I thoughtit was going to be campy.
It turns out it wasn't campy,but it didn't quite hit the mark
in trying to add something newto the franchise or the tone of
the other ones and didn'tconnect to one and two.
Final Destination 4 is juststraight up the worst one
Terrible CGI, no connection tothe other stories.

(32:10):
I mean interesting ways forpeople to die, but like that
movie was garbage.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
So, like thinking about this episode all day while
it's going my leisurely strollfor my free ice coffee, I was
thinking about what makes a goodprequel and a bad prequel right
because, like star wars,episode one, two and three are
famously bad prequels.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
People are right or right on that movie, but they're
famously okay just I.
I guess I should uh get get tothe actual point where this
connects to that short topic,because final destination five,
hereination 5, is a high pointfor the series and is an
excellent prequel, and one ofthe ways that it does prequel

(32:54):
well is it's completelydifferent characters.
And then spoiler alert.
It's an old movie already, butit ends with the disaster from
the first movie.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
See, that is a good solid thing.
So I was kind of trying to setyou up for that where when I was
going with so Star Wars,episode I, ii and III are
terrible prequels.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Right, because there's no stakes.
We know that there's charactersthat are contractually obliged
to be in the next movies.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well, not just that, but they didn't grasp the tone
of the original movies.
Instead they were historytextbooks read like telenovelas,
that didn't have the motif ofScrappy Underdog versus the
world.
They were just weird, pseudo,weird, pseudo political

(33:47):
thrillers, right.
Right, you know what's?
One of the best prequels evermade is star wars rogue one.
So rogue one added a bunch ofcharacters and the only
character who lived was darthvader, who killed a bunch of
people, right, but?
But it was a fantastic movie,even if it only existed to fill
a singular literal plot hole.

(34:07):
Right, and I think it's becauseit captured the energy better
than any of the prequel orsequel trilogy did, because it
was absolutely scrappy, no-nameunderdogs versus the evil empire
at its most powerful way.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
And it's the only time Darth Vader ever got to be
cool outside of CG animationyeah, I mean so, like, like I
said, um, not specifically aboutprequels, but Final
Destinations 3 and 4.
They kind of failed to capturesome of the energy of one and
two.
But then you get to number fiveand it's like it was super on

(34:51):
point.
It added one, added new stuffto the idea, which was then
picked up by final destinationsix, which also is probably
actually the strongest writtenmovie of the whole franchise.
Like final destination six wasjust such a good movie, but
that's a topic for another day,because that it's not a prequel,

(35:11):
it's a Well, but you know whatis one of the most pointless
prequels ever made?

Speaker 1 (35:16):
The four Gundam Origin movies that never made it
to Gundam.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
What they never made it to Gundam.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
They were the most convoluted thing I've ever seen.
So like we get it, char's thecool character, he's the marquee
character.
They love to put Char on thingsRight.
I get it.
He sells us everything from hotrods to hamburgers.
I think Char is an interestingcharacter concept and what they
did with him in the time in the60s 70s was like pretty

(35:46):
groundbreaking stuff.
But when they had him fight abunch of assassins in knight
armor to force a fight scene ina movie that didn't have one,
because they needed four moviesfor his childhood, because
apparently every year of hischildhood was a John Wick movie,
which is just asinine, that'sjust the worst way you can do a

(36:09):
prequel and it's like, yeah,every character in this because
they just used only existingcharacters had to be in a
specific starting point.
So it's like you're not settingup anything, you're just doing
random crap.
Where a different kind ofGundam prequel even though it's

(36:29):
more of a side story is it inGundam Thunderbolt, which
followed nobody, it was justabout us.
The people being sent to die onthe battlefield probably did a
better job.
Like one prequel I know that'smuch better than the original
series was Fate Zero.
So Fate Stay Night is deeplyproblematic, which is probably

(36:49):
what happens when you get yourfunding for your game by being
pornography and then removingthe pornography of CGI dragons
later In an artistic choice thatcan only be considered correct.
They did the right thing, doingthat Right, right.
So it's like they had coolconcepts, but like it was a
visual novel.
Then you go to the prequel movie.
You're like, okay, we know thatthis war ended terribly and we

(37:12):
know his dad was a badass.
But for the prequel movie theylike alternate around like five
points of view where it's like,ok, we have the villain of the
sequel series, we have his dadwho dies at the start of it.
We have a couple of newcharacters who we don't see in
the sequel but we don't know aredead or not.
So it's like we don't know whoWeber is is, but we don't know

(37:36):
who weber is.
He's not in the list of deadbodies either.
So it's like you're watching andyou're like I know half these
people die, I know half thesepeople become terrible people
after this and I have no ideawho the hell these people are.
And it was like they did like agripping, political, magical
thriller, murder mysteryminiseries.
I'm like this isn't just thesuperior version of this story

(37:59):
by like a lot like.
This prequel is just betterthan the original and I've never
seen a prequel where I'm justlike.
This is the superior piece ofmedia Because you took the ideas
and the themes and you pulledthe teenagers in the high
schools out of it and did aserious, grounded piece with it
instead.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Okay, um shift gears a little bit.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Um.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Lord of the Rings uh the movies, widely considered
one of the best films ever made.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I am not paid enough to say anything.
Contrary to that, I haven'tseen something as good as the
lord of the rings trilogy untilthe dune duology came out, and
I'm not actually sure that's asgood so much as the lord of the
rings is just slowly, throughtime, taking up less bandwidth
in my brain.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
That's fair, but so, in a similar vein to Minority
Report being written as a shortstory before Final Destination,
the Hobbit was made as a movie,as a prequel, but the book was
actually written first.
Does that movie as a prequel,but the book was actually

(39:16):
written first?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Does that count as a prequel?
So we're counting as a prequelbecause they did the same thing
as Char the Origin, so like yes,Char had a backstory that was
shown in original Gundam, right.
And then if you read the Char,like Gundam, the Origin manga,
the first like 20 chapters arelike the Char stuff.
Okay, but it's a prequelbecause they did all this stupid

(39:40):
bullshit, like they literallywent out of their way to have
scenes to set up Lord of theRings that weren't in the Hobbit
.
They wrote new scenes toretroactively add to the Hobbit
to strike this connection withits direct sequel.
They put Legolas in it.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, they did.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Why would you?
We know who Legolas is.
He's better than you.
We know who Legolas is.
He's from the other movies.
So, yeah, it's a prequel,because they rewrote it to be
worse.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I mean prequels.
It is really hard to do a goodprequel and, like I say, one of
the best ways to do a goodprequel is to approach the
beginning of your series from adifferent point of view that
hasn't really been explored inthe original series.
I agree, which is why I reallyreally like Final Destination 5.

(40:39):
I thought it's a really solidmovie and it's an excellent
addition to the FinalDestination franchise.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Well, like I was saying, with my deep hatred of
Gundam, the Origin never gettingto Gundam versus Fate Zero just
being the better version of thestory.
I think prequels are allowed tokeep the villains Okay.
They're not allowed to use thehero and they cannot mention
side characters that interactfor the setting in the first

(41:08):
time in their actual piece.
So many things, like the HanSolo movie, for example, feel
the need to introduce thingsthat would have no logical
overlap.
It's like if a prequel istrying to sell merch, it's
doomed Right.
Let's take the Captain Marvelmovie, for example.

(41:29):
That's chronologically a prequelbecause it's supposed to set up
like Nick Fury's backstory,yeah, but they just fill it with
random references to othermarvel movies, to things that
rationally wouldn't haveconnected yet in any meaningful
way.
So it's like, yeah, does thischange how you think of nick
fury?
And I'm like no, because nickfury doesn't become important

(41:54):
yet and trying to make itimportant in the future is some
weird.
Like the idea that you'retrying to like look at
references that don't exist yetis just so baffling.
It's like they actually did alittle bit of that dragon ball
daima.
So dragon ball daima is aprequel to dragon ball super.
Yeah, okay, weird way to wordit, but it is so like they know

(42:17):
things that happen after daima,that happened in super, like
beerus and the universes andthings right so they stopped for
like a full episode in dragonball daima, where they just
explained the comology and thekais and the universe and the
beeruses and things.
And I'm like, why are youreferencing things that we, the
audience, know about and don'tcare about?
Like?
Why are you explaining that thewe, the audience, know about

(42:37):
and don't care about?
Like, why are you explainingthat the Kai's head out to other
universes in this prequel, goku, wouldn't know this yet.
But also now you've likewrecked the continuity to inform
us of something we already know.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Now, a good prequel I watched a while back was they
did a prequel called macrosszero, which is a prequel to
macross and right.
The thing about macross zero isthey like show that these
aliens from macross were alreadykind of on earth on ancient
relics, because, like, there'sthis proto-culture that's

(43:13):
mentioned throughout the seriesokay and the main characters are
test pilots because they'rebuilding the first of those sick
transforming planes.
What's interesting about thisprequel is no one knows that
there's aliens yet, except likethe special ops team that know
aliens are coming because theyfound the macross ship and are
like reverse engineering it tobuild their sick fighters.
So it's an interesting storybecause it's like you see this

(43:37):
pilot wash up on this islandwith the native people and this
is like an uninhabited islandfor the most part, and they know
about aliens but they thinkthey're the gods.
Ah.
So it's like, okay, we'relooking at the cosmology, but
they're not being like thealiens are coming, hint, hint.
They're no.
This is all about the contextof this movie as a standalone,

(43:59):
hmm, which made it veryinteresting.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Huh, macross Zero.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Disney Plus added a bunch of Macross stuff which
they still couldn't get theoriginal because Harmony Gold's
more powerful than Disney.
That's funny.
So here's a prequel thatcompletely failed its job, even
though it didn't break any ofthe rules I just listed.
Okay, so JJK Zero.

(44:26):
Because they released JJK Zeroafter season one of JJK, I saw
it as a prequel.
Right who introduces acharacter that then they shove
into the main story later, whothey like, just like tries to
shove in as the dual agonist inthe original JJK as a prequel.

(44:50):
I don't think it was a badmovie as a prequel If I didn't
know what was happening later inthe series.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Well, so I mean so as a prologue.
I don't know everything aboutit, because in the original
manga, the Jujutsu Kaisen, thatwas like a chapter zero.
Jujutsu Kaisen, that was chapter0, yeah it's like a pilot or a
prologue and then that characteris just basically not in the

(45:21):
series until suddenly he's amain character and in that
context it was like it was aweird prologue.
But even as a prequel it's likeit's a pretty solid little arc.
But the fact that it feels likeit doesn't connect to that

(45:43):
character, even though he's soimportant to the story later at
all, I think the thing is thatcharacter's so important.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
But also what's weird is it shows Ghetto Like JJ
Zero's, like we're going to giveall this information about
Ghetto, right, yeah?
For then the villain to turnand be like surprise, it's not
actually Ghetto.
But also they do like thehidden inventory flashback as
soon as they start season two.
So they give us JJK Zero andthen they immediately show us an

(46:11):
even further back prequel slashflashback.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
So it's like this is just weirdly structured yeah uh,
but uh yeah, as far as prequelsgo like I don't know that jjk0
would, was uh not bad it's weird, like it's not bad, but it's

(46:38):
weird.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
It's not bad, but it almost would have been better if
he wasn't in it, like I almostwish that JJK didn't bring
anything from Zero into it.
Jjk finished and then theyfused the two together, kind of
like how Chainsaw man took histwo antagonists and then mixed
them back together.
Yeah, so here's just a funnyprequel though Cruella DeVille's

(47:00):
prequel, where they hadDalmatians kill her parents to
try and make her an empatheticcharacter.
Laughing, laughing, laughing,laughing so funny it's so hard
to make a prequel if you're acompany, because you want to
sell birch and like the idea,we're like oh, you're trying to,

(47:22):
but this is a person who killspuppies you're using as your
protagonist in your movie.
What are you even trying to dohere?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
yeah, very uh bizarre choice, um, I don't know.
Okay, actually, I'm just goingto look up most popular.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Oh, I got a list of prequels in front of me to do
this.
Oh yeah, Alright, so here'ssome prequels.
So we already covered Star Warsand Lord of the Rings on a row.
Didn't take much effort for usto get into those.
So, yes, the Hobbit is aprequel if it's on my list of
prequels.
Did you watch the FantasticBeasts trilogies?
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
No, they had five movies in total, and the third
one did so badly that I don'tthink the four and five are ever
going to get made.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
So here's the thing that drives me nuts about it.
Ignoring how JK Rowling is aterrible person, that's not
important.
I'm divorcing the artists fromthe media here and just talking
about fantastic beasts.
The first fantastic beast movieis a good prequel.
It's a standalone story about aman finding his fantastic

(48:26):
beasts and going on his littleadventure with his human buddy.
Shows it right, america.
Dumbledore makes a cameo but itdoesn't fuck with anything.
Fine movie then right next totry and set up shit and that's
my biggest rant about prequels.
Don't set up a movie I'vealready seen.

(48:47):
I don't need to know aboutvoldemort's precursor and his
homoerotic relationship withDumbledore and this ghost shot
Like stop setting up plot pointsin your prequel because we know
none of it will matter, becauseby the time this series of
prequels end, the darkness hasbeen defeated and every main

(49:11):
villain then meets up withVoldemort later when he gets
resurrected and every mainvillain then meets up with
Voldemort later when he getsresurrected.
So we don't need three moviesabout some guy named Grindelwald
or Dumbledore.
We don't.
I would have been fine withthree movies about a dude who
catalogs fantastic beasts andwhere to find them.
You get where I'm going withthat.

(49:32):
We don't need a trilogy to setup a seven book movie.
We've already read seven books,right, alright.
The next prequel we got on hereis X-Men, first Class, days of
Future, past, apocalypse, darkPhoenix.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
See, those ones are interesting because, like I
don't remember if we talkedabout them on our reboot, well,
where they're like sequels, butreboot.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, we did a little bit, but we can go into it but
I mean like they're likepre-boot quills so first class
was really good right but it wasalso really good it was also
three unrelated movies.
It was like magneto, nazihunter, which was a great movie

(50:24):
right xavier welson privilege,which was an okay movie, and
mystique in the justice leaguefor some reason.
Yeah.
So it's like the magneto xavierstuff was fascinating.
Everyone else didn't reallymatter then.
Days of future past was doing alot of setups that wouldn't pay
off ever right right andapocalypse was just kind of

(50:47):
boring.
And then dark phoenix.
By the time that came around, Isimply didn't care anymore.
I didn didn't care about DarkPhoenix is hilarious because it
released or was written.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
It was way too close to Endgame and way too similar
in theme and style to Endgame,so they rewrote it to make it
worse, because they didn't wantit to be thought of as an
Endgame knockoff.
It's funny because they keepbotching the dark phoenix saga
like most popular comic run yeah, uh, and so you know that that

(51:24):
one is a bad, bad prequelbecause, uh, it's external
forces so the thing about theX-Men quadrilogy here is I don't
know if they were bad prequelsor bad movies, because like
First Class was a great prequelDated Futures.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Past wasn't really a prequel.
It was like half prequel, halfsequel.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
That one was super interesting in that way.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yeah, and Apocalypse was just a bad movie.
Apocalypse was a bad movie andDark Phoenix was a bad movie,
but I don't know if there arebad prequels.
Now here's a good prequelMonster University.
And the reason it was a goodprequel was pretty
straightforward we know nothingabout the main characters of
Monsters Inc whatsoever.
Let's learn about them, right,and they only did it once.

(52:13):
Yeah, all right, so our next onour list is Prometheus.
Oh, so, here's my problem withPrometheus and it's kind of a
hot take.
Alien vs Predator had a fakebackstory for both.
That was better.
So it's like you made a prequelthat doesn't line up with the

(52:39):
better movies you've made.
Just give up.
Just give up.
What are you doing?
Like prometheus was just aterrible movie I did not enjoy
prometheus and I also think itwas a bad prequel because it
didn't know what alien was aboutno, no, it really did not.
Alien is badass.
Woman kills alien while livingin a horror movie.

(52:59):
Like Aliens was a Resident Evilmovie in space.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
It also has Alien Covenant on this list.
I'm not even going to dignifythat with a discussion, alright.
So next we have Bumblebee theTransformers prequel movie.
Did you watch that?

Speaker 2 (53:22):
No, I did not.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
So here's what's wrong and right with Bumblebee.
Bumblebee was actually one ofthe better Transformers movies,
but also is completely unable toreconcile with the canon of
these movies.
It simply doesn't work.
But it does have the best linein the franchise where I think

(53:44):
it might've been John CenaSomeone was playing cop dude.
Might've been John Cena,might've been Vin Diesel, I
don't remember Goes.
Why are they're calledDecepticons?
I don't remember goes.
Why are they're calledDecepticons?
Why are you making a deal witha group that calls themselves

(54:04):
Decepticons?
So it's like that was a greatmovie, bad prequel.
You know, like some of thosewere okay prequel, bad movie.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
that was great movie, bad prequel because it just
doesn't reconcile with the canon.
It doesn't reconcile with thecanon.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
It doesn't reconcile with the canon.
No one needed a Bumblebeeorigin movie.
They would have been better offIf it was a reboot quill.
It would have been great Ifthey were just like no, we're
just going to start TransformersFresh here with this Bumblebee
movie.
Yeah, so then we have RedDragon the Silence of the Lambs
prequel.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Ah, so then we have Red Dragon.
The Silence of the Lambsprequel.
Silence of the Lambs and anyrelated media are on my list of
movies to watch, but I just Idon't know why they just never
actually come up.
Anthony Hawkins is an amazingactor, but that doesn't really
have anything to do withprequels, and this is a weird
one.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Have anything to do with prequels, and this is a
weird one.
Indiana Jones and the Templesof the Doom, set before Raiders
of the Lost Ark, is terrible atbeing a prequel, because I
wasn't aware.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Uh yeah, I mean the chronological order doesn't
really matter, Matter.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Yup, and then we got.
Apparently there is a King'sman prequel that I never saw
called the King's man.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, I thought that looked like an interesting movie
, but I also didn't actuallywatch it either.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Here's one Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Is that the one with James Franco?

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yes, and the talking monkey who screams and talks of
the Apes.
Is that the one with JamesFranco?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yes, and the talking monkey, who screams, talks for
the first time and Melville getsbullied by a monkey.
I enjoyed that movie.
Actually, I thought it waspretty good.
That's just a good prequel, butI've never actually seen Planet
of the Apes.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
It's also a reboot quill Straight up yeah that's
true, so wrong episode so apre-boot.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
I think that counts as a pre-boot.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Cool Sure, but then because they have, like Donna,
planet of the Apes and then likeworld, like it turns into
Planet of the Apes, Eventuallythey get there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't thinkyou watch Game of Thrones,
Warhouse of the Dragon, so thiswill mean nothing to you.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
No, I did not watch either of those.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Ha ha, lightyear, the prequel story for the fake buzz
Like ah, the pitch meeting forLightyear.
Please just go watch RianJohnson instead of hearing us
talk about Lightyear, because Icannot put it better than him
about wait, wouldn't you want tosocks the cat toy?
And isn't he over the topaction character?

Speaker 2 (56:42):
and because money light year exists, because money
, yeah uh, light year isdefinitely a example of a bad
prequel.
Bad movie, uh, it does not make.
If that is the movie that andywatched as a child that made him
love buzz lightyear, he, buzzlightyear, didn't do anything

(57:06):
noteworthy to make him the thede facto action figure for that
movie.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, Now on.
Something that is interestingis that so they did Godzilla,
Then they did Godzilla, King ofthe Monsters.
Then they did like they wentfurther back in time to do a
King Kong movie, so they coulddo Godzilla vs Kong.
So they could do the Monarchspinoff show, so they could do

(57:31):
Godzilla vs Kong 2, where amonkey with a robot arm throws
another monkey at a giant icelizard.
Right, Great prequel but weirdcontext Because they had to do a
prequel to Godzilla that was areboot of King Kong.
To put them in the sameuniverse, mmm, and I'm going to

(57:52):
say it did both its jobsperfectly.
Because they're like, okay, weneed to change King Kong into a
kaiju movie so we can haveGodzilla versus King Kong Right.
It's kind of like in the sameway that like calling Captain
America prequel to Iron man istechnically true but like not at
all.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Right, I mean they're .
They're in the same universe,but but it's not really related
at all.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Oh man, we have another Godzilla vs Kong movie
coming out and then thelicensing has went through to
have deals with Pacific Rim andit's incredibly possible that
we're going to get Godzilla vsKong vs the Kaiju of Jaegers.
As a thing that happens,they've been slowly wrapping up
the technology in all theseGodzilla vs Kong movies, so
having Jaegers wouldn't make notsense, and they've set up the

(58:35):
portals.
This makes me so happy.
This makes me so happy, carl.
I like when giant monkey getpunched by giant lizard.
That's bad.
I read way too much deep,complex, beautiful literary
fiction to not just deserve agiant monkey punching a giant

(58:58):
lizard.
All right.
So here's some weird ones.
So we got Andor, which is justRogue One, the series.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Yeah, but I mean, people don't really like Andor
that much People love.
Andor, really, yeah, all right,I thought it wasn't doing that
well, although I guess it didactually get to season two yeah,
we already complained aboutobi-wan?

Speaker 1 (59:21):
well, because it's just terrible yeah we have
batman begins, which is a rebootquill, not a prequel.
Nice try, nice try list we'reon to you.
But then we have batman yearone, which was like an animated
one, and that one I'm gonna getprequel to because, like, oh man

(59:41):
, I never watched the movie, butI did read the comic and yeah,
it is.
It is great it's funny becauseit's a prequel to every batman
story, right like they all startafter that, except batman
begins.
So calling year one a prequel,it's like well, what's a prequel
to?
It's like pick one works prettywell for all of them yeah, it

(01:00:02):
told a nice, neat,self-contained story.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Uh, that shows you where batman was in the first
year of his career and the maincharacter is jim Gordon.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
I think that's really important.
Hmm, I wrote a paper on this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Like you were saying earlier, one of the best ways to
create a proper prequel is toexplore the narrative from
someone's point of view that hasnot been explored so far.
Exactly so making Jim Gordonthe main character just makes
sense if you actually want to beable to a slot it into any of

(01:00:40):
the other timelines or, b justmake a you know solid story
agree, you know what's a weirdlygood prequel.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
History of bardock history of bardock it was the
best dragon ball z movie.
History of bardock though I cansee the future one.
Uh, history of trunks, you mean?
No, so there's history oftrunks.
And then there was legend ofbardock or something.
I don't remember what theycalled it, but it was like
bardock.
It literally just followsbardock, gets punched by the I

(01:01:12):
can see the future aliens andthen tries to warn the saiyans
he's gonna blow up the planet.
Then See the Future aliens andthen tries to warn the Saiyans
that he's just going to blow upthe planet.
Then runs at Frieza and thenFrieza blows up the planet.
Right, the Bardock story.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
It was pretty good For some reason I thought that
was oh, no, History of Trunks.
Is Trunks fighting the androidsin the future?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Also a prequel, though?
Alright, yeah, follow prequelthough.
All right, yeah, follow me onthis one.
It takes place before trunksjoins the show.
It is absolutely a prequel,somehow you want to disagree,

(01:01:50):
but I'm right no, no, you're,you're right, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
It's like this weird future prequel because it's like
he's.
It's like this weird futureprequel because it's like he's
from the future, but it's aprequel to him showing up in the
show.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, and I'd say it is one of the better prequels.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Oh yeah, Everybody loves one arm to go on, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
But if Bulma built him a robot arm, it would have
been cooler Well that version ofBulma was dead at that point.
No, she was there, she just wasbusy building a time machine
which, admittedly, was a betteruse of her time.
That's what the machine wouldhave been for.
Alright, I'm just going to firethrough a couple quickly before
we get to our wrap-up.
And random question Did youever see Better Call Sal or

(01:02:30):
Breaking Bad?

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
I watched most of season one.
I didn.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
I've heard it's pretty good, but I've heard it's
pretty good.
Did not give it the light ofday.
We have Young SheldonObjectively Awful.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Objectively Awful.
Don't tell that to my fiancée.
She loves Young Sheldon.
She probably loves Big BangTheory too.
She also liked the.
There's a spin-off of YoungSheldon Mandy's First Marriage
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Okay Thing is off of Young Sheldon, that Mandy's
first marriage or something likethat.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
It's like a prequel to the prequel.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
I'm going to put this out there.
I like things that are stupid.
Sometimes it's a thing you'reallowed to do.
You're allowed to like badthings Young Sheldon's bad, just
a fact.
That's funny, just the factthat it is bad pokemon legends
arceus, despite having a tediousstartup time, was an amusing

(01:03:28):
pokemon prequel and then torapid fire a few more.
To get into random questiongotham everything I hate about a
prequel the show five years offoreshadowing things I already
knew.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
And then it's like that one also fell prey to the
external forces thing, whereit's like they're not allowed to
specifically name drop certaincharacters, so it's like, oh, is
this guy the Joker?
We can't actually say, becausenobody can actually be the Joker
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
And then Smallville, not as bad, not as bad Like it
had the same problem, exceptSuperman's kind of lame, Not
really like Superman.
It's like, yeah, he never gotto Superman and Smallville was
just his own show.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
But it's also more practical to film young clarkett
like, I enjoy a lot of thearrowverse stuff that like
camped its style, as it were I,I would say I, I, the smallville
, overstayed its welcome, havingway too many seasons, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
But uh it was also much more willing than Gotham to
use its characters.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Yeah, it used a lot of characters.
It had a lot of interestingtwists of like him learning his
powers and actually exploringhis life, growing up and the
things that shaped him into thehero that he becomes.
But I don't, I don't think itdid so much work to set up as
much, largely because therearen't that many long running

(01:05:09):
plot arcs outside of the comicsuh, for superman to like have
set up, I guess well, I thinkthe thing it did that gotham was
afraid to do is it's like oh,we're just gonna use brainiac.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Oh, we're just gonna show dark side.
Oh, we're just gonna use lexlewis, like it was willing to
just use the superman villainsand rewrite them to fit.
It was like, oh, we're justgoing to use Brainiac.
Oh, we're just going to showDarkseid.
Oh, we're just going to use LexLuthor, like it was willing to
just use the Superman villainsand rewrite them to fit into
Smallville.
So it wasn't like oh, we're notgoing to do this.
Like, oh, no, we're just goingto let this Javier kid be the
Flash.
Oh, we're just going to haveGreen Arrow in this.
We like they put in charactersthat would have been post

(01:05:46):
superman being superman and justuse them like, oh, we're just
gonna put in weird kryptonianwitches, I don't know like.
I see like it was their way oftrying to like sitcomify a
superhero show and I actuallykind of like those shows.
Like, I'm gonna be honest, theflash went for too many seasons,
but I actually really liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Yeah, yeah.
But Smallville, like I said, itoverstayed its welcome win for
too many seasons as well.
But at least the first few feltlike they were genuinely
telling a prequel story of himexploring life growing up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
And the last couple ones we have.
So to jump back to the anime'sfear for a bit, we have rion and
kenshin, trust and betrayal,which was the ova where they
showed kenshin's past.
So that was cheating becausethey just took the flashback arc
from rion and kenshin and madeit into a movie.

(01:06:41):
That's just cheating.
That was the best part.
And anime if you're listening,because we do manifest things on
the show do that like the animemovie of a weird filler villain
and the three minions defeatedin sequence.
Why does naruto have 12 moviesand none of them are?
We take the kakashi flashbackarc that was three episodes

(01:07:03):
worth of stuff and flush it outinto a solid two-hour movie.
That is by far the best narutomovie they could put out.
If it was just kakashi's movieabout kakashi with the things
they already know happened, andyou just animate that and you
win, yeah, and then we have, and, and then we have, and then we

(01:07:26):
have the Evangelion 1.0 prequel,sequel, reboot, quill, pseudo
canon.
It somehow ended well and I'mjust.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
I like to give it praise every chance I can that
it actually ended well but it'ssome sort of weird time loop
where it's a reboot, sequel,prequel, all wrapped in one.
Yeah, and I'm giving it bonuspoints Fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
And I don't think there's any video games that
immediately come to mind thatwere video game prequels to
other games, like Skyward Sword,I guess, but it was bad.
Halo Reach, but it was bad.
Red Dead Redemption 2 was aprequel, but no one played that
game for the story.
Final Fantasy VII Crisis Corewas bad.

(01:08:18):
Yeah, every video game prequelthat exists is just pointless
Like.
I searched best video gameprequels and it suggested
Borderlands, the pre-sequel tome.

(01:08:38):
Yeah, okay.
When they're suggesting likeamazing video game prequels,
like god of war, ascension,kingdom, hearts birthed by sleep
, I'm like okay, we're doomed.
Video game prequels are justbad.
There's just no point in tryingto fight it.
Yeah, dead space extractiongained nothing for being a

(01:09:01):
prequel.
It could have just been asequel.
Could have been nothing, allright.
So let's get into our randomquestion.
Oh, tales of Symphonia Dawn, ofthe New World, boo, anywho.
Random question timeMonologuing it while I find this
list.
Oh, you have one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
I have a random question for you.
Okay, so not exactly telepathy,but if you had the power to
make anyone within, I'm going tosay, 60 feet of you and they
will hear what you're hearing,or you can swap any sense where

(01:09:46):
it's like, instead of seeingwhat they're seeing, they will
see what you're seeing, whatwould you do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
with the sort of sensory projection power.
So my immediate first thoughtis let someone try my driving
ability and they'll stop askingme, telling me oh, you can just
practice.
Be like here, I'm on a bike,we'll switch senses.
You're in my body, you'recontrolling my body, you're
piloting my body, I'm in yourbody, they don't get to pilot
your body.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
You're still piloting your body.
They just see exactly what yousee or hear exactly what you
hear, and just don't don't seeor hear what their body would be
hearing okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
So I'm like they're familiar in this situation, kind
of sort of yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Like you basically project yourself onto them and
then become like they'refamiliar.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
They see through your eyes I really want to do it to
miko.
I want to just watch my day,like just check in for a bit to
see like what I do outside andwhat I do inside.
Like I I'm really curious likewhat would happen if a pet just
observed things from my point ofview for a while.
So, checking in on miko, Ithink I'd just be out, I'd be at
the office and just like eyesroll back and miko gets to look
around for a second and see whatI'm seeing Because he's

(01:11:03):
statistically probably napping.
So yeah, I would use that tolet pets experience what I
experience.
And the thing is I have a veryrich internal life and a really
boring external life.
So it's like, yeah, no, mostthings I'm sensory experiencing
are the boring stuff.
Now, if I could give someonethe uninterrupted stream of
consciousness while I'm lyingthere in bed structuring my D&D

(01:11:27):
campaign, oh the spam I wouldsend you my friend Like, no, no,
you don't get this fightsequence and you get to actually
see it when I'm picturing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Uh, yeah, yeah, that would be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
uh, that'd be interesting, like if I could get
someone with a typing speed adirect feed of here's what I'm
thinking now.
Type it Like the reverse powerwould be great.
This power sucks and I'm mostlyjust using it to check in on my
cat.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Well, okay, so like if you were able to see what
someone else was seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Still probably not.
Like I don't actually care forthis particular power, like
normally I can abuse the system.
But like, yeah, sensoryprojection, we have cell phones.
Like this power is theequivalent to me just telling
you to turn on your fuckingcamera.
We all carry gps cameras withaudio capture with us at all
times.
If I really wanted to be likehey, carl, what experience, what

(01:12:23):
I'm experiencing'd just turn upmy phone and hold it up and
he'd realize I was at his desk.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Yeah, but wouldn't it be amusing to hear what someone
else's voice sounds like whenthey say it, or if you're in a
fight with someone and then theyhave to watch themselves and
try and punch you whiletechnically punching what
they're seeing Like they'repunching at your face, but
they're seeing their fists comeat your face Like that'd be
funny.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to give a character
that power.
In my Esper story I'm workingwith Like that's a cool power
conceptually and little thingslike is blue the same through my
like.
It's just weird that I'm givingmy sensory feed Cause I can't
really research on that.
I would much rather the reversepower of being able to receive

(01:13:09):
information.
Yeah, because my body sucksLike ooh you get to know that
I'm blind and kind of deaf.
I probably send cases to peopleonce in a while.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Ooh, that would be funny.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Like don't get me wrong.
If you want to fuck withsomeone, the potential is, like
if I add this is my quirk and Ineed to be a hero.
Like I just close my eyes andproject it to someone so they go
blind while I kick them in theface.
Like your ability to like causecar crashes is nearly unlimited
, because I'm just sitting in mychair and then someone's
driving and suddenly they'rejust looking at a wall that I

(01:13:49):
mean that's fair, like there'sso many ways to kill somebody
like here's what you do.
You go bungee jumping and youjump first.
So you, once you go off, yousend all those senses to
somebody you don't know.
You're bungee jumping, you justsee the ground and sound of
falling to your death.
You can probably give peopleheart attacks that way, like if

(01:14:14):
a certain tariff, tariffy.
Just felt himself bungeejumping out of nowhere.
He'd assume he was dying right?
Yeah, probably so.
Yeah, if you give me this power,I'm a villain instantly oof
okay or like I see someone goingthrough or I could be nice with
it, like if someone's goingthrough like painful surgery and

(01:14:34):
I just sense them, send them mysense of pain, which is fine,
yeah, oh, and any employer whoever said you're not that sick,
come in gets the feeling ofexplosive everything.
They just get to live throughthat.
So, like you've sold me allthis power for its ability to
like mentally sabotage andtraumatize people, especially if

(01:14:56):
I can send mental imagery.
But like there's definitely theversion where I just slam my
thumb into a drawer, like thetime I broke my thumbnail while
you're feeling my sense of pain,like, oh, especially, if it's
like limitless range.
It's like, technically, a deathnote.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Well, I mean I haven't put that much thought
into the power.
I said 60 feet, but Alright.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Well, 60 feet makes this way worse.
Oh, 60 feet, like if I.
Well, 60 feet makes this wayworse.
Oh, 60 feet, like if I could doit to anyone anywhere.
It is an insane villain power.
60 feet means I have to, likeawkwardly, sneak up on people to
start messing with them andtorturing them, like the empathy
one where I just send them mypositive sensation so they don't
suffer.
Like I'll just give you mysense of taste while you're

(01:15:42):
eating lettuce.
Oh, they don't suffer.
Like I'll just give you mysense of taste while you're
eating lettuce.
Oh, like it's a pretty goodyeah, I mean skill, although
that moment where I'm like, yeah, you can just have my senses,
you're like you feel this painall the time.
Oh god, it ended up like, uh-oh, I should go to a doctor, as
you're saying the other day.
It's like what if I'm justalways in constant pain, but I'm
toned it out and I give it to anormal person and they just
drop to the floor and startconvulsing?

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
I mean it's foolish to think that I am a supreme
human that can just survivesomething that normal people
find unbearable.
But at the same time I alwayskind of wonder, because
sometimes people just seem likethey're little bitches.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
I don't fuck with people so much so.
So then the sensation of myteeth, where I have an extra
tooth.
Because my brain is absolutelyjust toned that out at this
point, Right right.
That was a good random question.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Have you found an official random person?
I mean, I guess I am anofficial part of this podcast,
but yeah, this is a fun one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
What is a sound that makes you instantly feel 10%
happier?

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
A sound that makes me feel 10% happier.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Coffee maker for me.
First thing in the morning Ihear my roommate making coffee
Beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
The Game Boy Advance starting jingle dude, uh yeah.
A birthday present I got wasone of those like retro Game Boy
Advance starting jingle dude,uh yeah.
A birthday present I got wasone of those like retro Game
Boy-shaped emulators that haslike all the Game Boy and Super
Nintendo games on them, but it'sshaped like a Game Boy and I
was playing around with it onthe couch yesterday.
I'm like, yeah, no, every timeI hear the Game Boy ting, I
instantly get 10% happier.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Um, this one.
It doesn't come up very often,but the hidden GameCube startup
sound, the one that's like themonkey yeah, you hold this
button as it's starting up andthen it's like a weird different
thing.
It's like why, what's up withthat Easter egg?

(01:17:40):
I've never looked into it, butI think it's funny and it makes
me happy when, when it does comeup yep, all right, I think that
is it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
So, for those tuning in, if you listened to our
entire episode and we didn'tplay any dagger heart, I'm sorry
, message us about that, becausethat'll let us know where your
hearts lie and I mean there maybe more Daggerheart in the
pipeline, because that was a lotof fun.
We at least talked about it fora while.
Also, we have a random questionsegment for new listeners.

(01:18:11):
Send me a random question,either email type Richard, into
Google.
You have a decent shot LikeRichard Arthur Canada.
You might get me Post it on thecomments.
Click the button in every videodescription and you can win
possibly Deep Space and Dragonsmerch, which I need to get
updated at some point.
Also, if you just send me thephrase send me a free copy of

(01:18:35):
the Waltz of Blades.
I will Just straight up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Richard Kivis, k-e-v-i-s Yep Author.
Let's see what comes up.
Richard A J Kavis, canadianauthor.
A leading Canadian sci-fi andfantasy author.
Games, stories, games, tips andservices.
That brought me right to yourwebsite, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
I was hoping another website had all those nice
things on it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
The one that shocked me today is if you go, richard
Brampton, author, I show up, youdon't actually need my last
name.
You just need the descriptionof where I am and it works.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Richard Brampton.
Author.
Well, I mean, hmm, maybe it'sjust See.
So I specifically actually toprove a point, mostly to myself,
but I use DuckDuckGo on myphone instead of Google.

(01:19:48):
I don't really have a goodreason.
They're like, yeah, we're aprivacy browser, so I'll allow
it, and because it's a privacybrowser, their algorithm doesn't
really know anything about me,and so like, obviously I talk to
you a lot and so, uh, google'salgorithm would know that I am

(01:20:12):
connected to you in some way,but duck duck go does not.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
So well, actually you're over explaining it
because I actually have to setup google to find me.
So if you use google, it wouldworked.
It's not like secret policedata.
I click the button to beregistered on Google.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Well, yeah, but I mean, like I, being in Canada
and having an active connectionto you, my algorithm is more
likely to find you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Yeah, but I'm saying it hurts my feelings for you to
be like hey, we're giving ashout out to you at the end of
our episode.
Yeah, you're not that famous ifyou put a privacy blocker on it
.
I'm like why why?

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
are you doing this?
You are that famous because Ifound you on DuckDuckGo.
That's my point.
Oh, I thought you said you did.
Wow, I thought you said youdidn't and I felt bad.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Now I'm just a dick.
No, no, I deserve to go on thewrong train, like my one
friend's.
Like how are you in the wrongcity?
I'm like because I deserve it,because of the things I say and
do, in any event, to all of ourlisteners.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Richard is easy to find, even if you're using some
sort of uh, obscure I got sodefensive for no reason.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Uh, this is what happens when you bully people in
junior high they never recover.
I got called rat tooth richonce and I'm now a professional
author to undo the psychologicaldamage that caused.
I will never be mentallyhealthy, despite monthly therapy

(01:21:54):
, jesus.
But seriously, drink water,live good lives, support local
literary magazines, I guess.
Oh, also, shout out toDaggerheart, go to
daggerheartcom and you can getfree play stuff to try the game.
I don't know, they don'tsponsor us, but I've been using

(01:22:15):
their stuff all week.
Yeah, shout out to Daggerheart,because that was a lot of fun
and it's something new and fresh, uh, compared to the the
daggerheart grabbed both mikemurrells and another one of the
lead 5e developers that recentlystopped working at wizards for
their dev team, huh.

(01:22:35):
So they're just like oh, that'ssuch a flex, such a funny flex.
Hey, 5e was your bestsellingversion.
Good thing we took the peoplewho did that Idiots.
Wizards, please hire me someday,if you still exist.
Oh, now, if Daggerheart wantedto hire me, I would like abandon
my life and go do that.
Just me, miko, on a carry-onand hoping for the best, bye,

(01:23:02):
bye.
You know how wild it would beto go to the States right now,
miko, on a carry on and hopingfor the best, bye, bye.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
You know how wild it would be to go to the States
right now.
Yeah, oh, that would be.