Deep Thoughts about Groundhog Day

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's interesting that the art that he commits to is
music and ice sculptures, bothof which are ephemeral because,
you know, he can't write a novelRight.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
What others might deem stupid shit.
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
We're sisters, tracy and Emily,collectively known as the Guy
Girls.
So do we?
We're sisters, tracy and Emily,collectively known as the Guy
Girls.
Every week, we take turnsre-watching, researching and
reconsidering beloved media andsharing what we learn.
Come overthink with us and ifyou get value from the show,

(00:36):
please consider supporting us.
You can become a patron onPatreon or send us a one-time
tip through Ko-fi.
Both links are in the shownotes and thanks.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will bediscussing the 1993 classic
comedy Groundhog Day with mysister, Tracy Guy-Decker, and

(01:07):
with you.
Let's dive in.
All right, Tracy, I know you'veseen this film.
I think it's likely we saw ittogether in the theater.
It does seem likely, doesn't it?
But I don't recall for sure.
Me neither Tell me what youremember about it.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, I loved this film.
I really loved it.
There's a lot of it in my headLike it.
It is definitely furniture ofthe mind, so I actually don't
want to share all the things Iremember.
I just I, I loved it.
I loved it.
It was like I love Bill Murraybecause of Ghostbusters Although
our Ghostbusters episode mademe really rethink that and

(01:42):
because of this movie.
I just I loved him in thismovie and I loved the way that
he I'm not sure I saw it thisway, like in 93, I was what like
17.
Like I don't think I saw it thisway in 93, but I love the idea
of sort of what kind of growth,like emotional, psychological

(02:06):
growth, we can get when forcedto like think about and do the
same thing over and over again.
Like how do we stop it frombeing actually doing the same
thing over and over again?
And it's changing yourself,right, and like that idea, like
I just love it so much, which isnot something I got in 1993.
I just was charmed by it, youknow.
But there's definitely momentslike vignettes that flash in my

(02:31):
head, like of the groundhog onhis lap Don't drive angry and
the Ned the insurance salesmanand the pothole that he steps in
.
It's a doozy.
Like there's things just likepop up, like like I'm I'm having

(02:54):
like pop up video right now inmy head.
So what's happening last fromthe past?
So so yeah, there's a lot inthere, and that's not what we're
here to talk about.
Why are we here?
Why are we talking aboutGroundhog Day?

Speaker 1 (03:11):
So there's two reasons we're talking about this
.
The first is last year I wrotea piece that went semi-viral for
one of my clients, fast Company, about the hidden money lessons
in Groundhog Day.
We published it right in timefor February 2nd and people
loved it, and it's the kind ofoverthinking that I do and tying

(03:34):
some of these lessons that BillMurray's Phil Connors learns in
the story to financial behavior.
So it's been in my head sincethen.
So that's one reason for it.
The other reason I wanted totalk about it is because there
are three different religioustraditions that claim this movie

(03:58):
as their own Judaism, buddhismand Jesuit Christianity Really,
yes, uh, judaism, buddhism andjesuit christianity really yes,
to the point where in 2003,there was this film series about
religion in films and themovies were all of like the, the

(04:22):
capital F film that you thinkof, yeah.
And then Groundhog Day.
And actually so many, so manypeople who were presenting
wanted to put Groundhog Day thatthere was a squabble over who
got to write up the, the reasonfor it in the in the pamphlet,
wow.
So this mainstream, verysuccessful comedy really

(04:51):
resonates with several religiousteachings and belief systems.
I, because I'm Jewish, see itas a very Jewish movie.
Because I'm Jewish, see it as avery Jewish movie, and the two
writers of the movie, dannyRubin and Harold Ramis Harold
Ramis who played Egon, both ofwhom, danny Rubin, is still

(05:18):
alive, but Harold Ramis wasJewish, although he was married
to a woman who was Buddhist andhe referred to himself as a
Buddhist.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
You know, there's like a whole category, like, of
jewish buddhists, the juboos,like, like.
There's enough of them that weneeded a name.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
So yeah, buddhish.
Okay, yeah, based on therelatively little I know about
buddhism, I can see that inthere as well, and I can
comprehend how a Christian couldlook at this movie and see it
as a similar sort of echo ofChristian theology.
But I love that we get thisvery philosophical and spiritual

(05:56):
.
Look at what it means to bealive in a time loop movie.
Yeah, a silly time loop movie.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah With Bill Murray, and Don't Drive Angry.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, yeah.
So I just I like you, I'vealways loved this movie.
I feel a very weird affinity toGroundhog Day the holiday
because it's two days before mybirthday, right the holiday
because it's two days before mybirthday, right, and I have.
Also, I don't I've never likedhaving a winter birthday, but

(06:31):
and it's partially because Idon't like winter I get the
seasonal affective disorder andall of that.
But I've always felt like, okay, I can make it to my birthday
and then at that point the worstthat I get is six more weeks of
winter.
I can do it.
So Groundhog Day was also likea way for me to be like, all
right, I can make it.
So those are the reasons why Iwanted to bring it to our

(06:55):
conversation today.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Cool, All right.
Well, I'm looking forward tothe analysis, but first, like
remind me of the plot.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
So I think I'll actually be concise this time
Because it really is only oneday.
We meet Bill Murray's PhilConnors.
He is a weatherman at aPittsburgh news station who is
going to Punxsutawney,pennsylvania, which is a real
place, although it was notfilmed there.

(07:25):
It was filmed in a small townin Illinois, punxsutawney,
pennsylvania, for the fourthtime to cover the Groundhog Day
event.
There is a groundhog inPunxsutawney named Punxsutawney
Phil.
That's why Phil Connors, heshares something with the
groundhog.
He has a new producer namedRita who is played by Andy
McDowell, and the cameraman isLarry, played by Chris Elliott.

(07:48):
Phil is not a very nice person.
It is very clear that he issarcastic, rude, grumpy,
egotistical, domineering, justnot a great person.
He kind of flirts with AndyMcDowell's Rita a little bit and
it's clear that she is notinterested, but a little too

(08:12):
kindly to really shut him down.
They get to Punxsutawney.
He refuses to stay in the hotelbecause he hates the hotel.
He's been there three timesbefore and Rita says good,
you're not staying here, You'reat a bed and breakfast down the
hotel.
He's been there three timesbefore and Rita says good,
you're not staying here, you'reat a bed and breakfast down the
street.
That is all happening onFebruary 1st, we see all of
February 2nd.

(08:33):
He wakes up at 6 am when thealarm in the bed and breakfast
goes off playing the local radiostation.
It's Sonny and Cher's I've Gotyou, babe, and then two early
morning DJs making jokes aboutthe fact that it's Groundhog Day
.
He has a couple of interactionswith people in the Bed and

(08:53):
Breakfast, including MrsLancaster who works there.
He gets to Gobbler's Knob,which is again, that's real,
although it's set up differentlyin the film than it is in the
real world where the GroundhogDay celebration takes place.
He does his reporting.
Meanwhile there is this expectedblizzard to come through and he
has made it clear no, it's notgoing to affect us, it's going

(09:15):
to go to Altoona.
So as soon as they are donehe's like let's pack it up.
We're getting back toPittsburgh, but the roads are
closed because it is snowing somuch.
So they have to turn around andcome back to Punxsutawney where
it is not yet snowing.
It's, it's snowing where it'sclosed off the um, the highway.
So he goes back to sleep um inthe bed and breakfast and when

(09:38):
he wakes up the next morningit's February 2nd again, and so
the first day he goes throughthe whole thing really confused
and acting a little weird, butjust basically thinking like,
okay, there's gotta be something.
I don't know, I don't knowwhat's going on.
And we see him going to bedthat night on the phone with
someone like saying like, canyou guarantee that we're going

(10:00):
to do this, can we do that?
And he's like, well, I don'tknow what if there is no
tomorrow, there wasn't one today, which is a great line.
He has a pencil that he snapsand puts it on his bedside table
to test.
It Wakes up again February 2ndpencil is whole, whole thing's

(10:22):
happening again.
So he tells Rita, there'ssomething wrong with me.
And she says, well, you know,you should get your head
examined.
So he goes to a doctor who sayslike, well, everything looks
fine, but if you want an MRIyou'd have to go to Pittsburgh.
And he's like I can't go toPittsburgh.
And so the doctor says, well,why don't you go see a

(10:43):
psychiatrist?
So he goes to see apsychiatrist who is really not
equipped to help him and thepsychiatrist says, well, I think
we should continue talking.
Why don't you come backtomorrow?
Which same problem.
And that night he is at localbowling alley drinking with two
of the locals, gus and oh, Ican't remember Gus's friend's

(11:05):
name and Gus says to him likeyou seem like a glass half empty
kind of guy, you know why don'tyou look on the bright side?
And so the two locals are very,very drunk.
And so Phil drives their carand realizes like wait a minute,
if there's no tomorrow, there'sno consequences.
So he runs over a mailbox like,gets into a police chase,

(11:31):
drives on the train tracks,nearly gets him killed, ends up
in jail.
And he wakes up again the nextmorning it's February 2nd and no
one's come looking for him.
So apparently there are noconsequences.
And no one's come looking forhim.
So apparently there are noconsequences.
So he starts doing all kinds ofstuff.
He asks an attractive youngwoman what her name is, what
high school she went to and whoher 12th grade English teacher

(11:52):
was.
So the next day he can pretendthat he went to school with her
and seduce her.
He uses his knowledge of whathappens to steal money out of a
Brink security truck.
He eats like there's this greatscene of him binging all this
food on a table.
So it basically is like thereis nothing I can't do.

(12:17):
And then he sets his sights onbecause he has always had a
little crush on Rita, sets hissights on trying to seduce her,
and so we see a montage of himover and over and over again
trying to get in her good graces.
So he learns what her favoritedrink is.
He learns that she went tocollege for French poetry and
memorizes a French poem.

(12:37):
He finds out what she wantsfrom a man and says that that's
what he is Like.
She says she wants marriage andkids, and so he pretends that
that's what he wants too.
And he ends up having onealmost perfect day and she comes
back to his room with him andthey're kissing and she's like I

(13:01):
need to go now.
And he starts pressuring herbecause he knows if it doesn't
happen now, it never will, or atleast he's going to have to do
all this work again.
And she ends up slapping himand is really disgusted and
horrified by him.
We then see a montage of herslapping him over and over and
over again, and it's at thatpoint that he kind of loses hope

(13:23):
.
And so we see him the don'tdrive angry thing he's like you
know, this is never going to endunless I take the groundhog out
.
So he steals a truck that hasthe groundhog in it and drives
it over a cliff.
He wakes up the next day.
He takes a toaster into the tubwith him, wakes up the next day

(13:48):
, jumps off a building, wakes upthe next day.
So that happens over and overagain.
And then we see him come toRita and say, like I think I'm a
God, and she's like, uh no, 12years of Catholic school, I can
tell you you're not God.
He's like I'm not God, I'm aGod.

(14:09):
I don't know, maybe.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
I might be.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
And so he goes, tries to prove it to her by showing
how much he knows about everyonein the town, and she is a
little freaked out.
But she's like, okay, I'm goingto keep an eye on you all day
because you see what's going on.
And so at the end of that daythey are in his room at midnight

(14:32):
.
She thinks like, oh, I thoughtyou were going to disappear, I
was going to disappear.
And he's like, no, no, no, itdoesn't happen until 6 am.
So he gets six hours intoFebruary 3rd.
She stays, like you know, atmidnight.
She stays, like you know, atmidnight.
He says like you don't have tostay if you don't want to, but
if you know, if you want to, youmay.
And we see several hours latershe's fallen asleep.
She's kind of in that like halfasleep, half awake, kind of

(14:53):
murmuring like I'm not asleep,I'm not tired.
And he tells her that hedoesn't deserve someone who is
as kind and good as she is.
But if ever he had a chance tobe with her, he would love her
for the rest of his life.
And she doesn't really hear it.
She says did you say something?
And then he wakes up alone inthe room and that's kind of a

(15:17):
turning point for him.
He starts changing the way heinteracts with the world.
It starts with there is ahomeless man that he has, like
um, walked past and not givenmoney to over and over and over
again.
And we see him first give himmoney and then we see later he
is at a hospital.

(15:38):
He brought the old man in whohad died and um, the uh, the
nurse like sometimes just dieand he's like not today.
And so we see him trying againand again to save his life.
There's a piano teacher nearbyand he bribes her with $1,000 to
kick out her current studentsso he can learn piano.

(15:59):
He learns ice sculpting.
He saves, like a bunch ofdifferent people from, from
small everyday perils.
Uh, there's a little boy whofalls out of a tree and,
interestingly, the first time Iever noticed this, when he's at
the hospital with the old manthe little boy's in the
background, with his leg broken,I was like I never realized

(16:21):
that before.
Um, he saves a little boy.
He changes attire for threelittle ladies who get a flat.
The mayor is choking on a pieceof steak and he gives him the
Heimlich maneuver.
Just basically is being ahelpful man about town In the

(16:42):
evening there's a party.
Rita all day has been trying tofigure out where he is and he's
at the party playing piano andshe is so impressed with
everything he's done.
And as part of the party theyhave a bachelor auction.
So one of the residents of thetown pushes him forward to be

(17:06):
the first bachelor and there's abidding war and then Rita wins
it by emptying out her walletand I think it's $339.88.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
It's just like holding her checkbook up.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, and so they go off and have like a date.
Basically he does like a snowsculpture of her face and you
know he is just talking to her,you know, without an agenda,
he's just getting to know her.
It seems like a lovely day andhe expects to wake up alone

(17:40):
again on February 2nd, aloneagain on February 2nd.
Well, the next morning he wakesup it's Sonny and Cher again,
but a different part of the song.
And Rita reaches over him andturns off the alarm clock,
saying it's too early, and he'slike something's different.
So he asked her what are youdoing here?
She said well, you said stay,so I stayed and I bought you,

(18:04):
like I bought you in the auction.
And she's also and I reallyappreciate this the film.
She's like where was thisenergy last night?
I could have used it so to makeit clear that all they did was
sleep.
And so they head out.
He says some things that Ithink would be freaky to poor
Rita.
He says let's live here, we'llrent first.

(18:26):
But that is the happy ending ofthe film.
Cool, there's so much goodstuff in here.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
All right, so where do we start?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
So let's talk about Phil's kind of moral arc.
Yeah, because I actually I wasthinking a lot about what we
said about Billy Crystal's Harryfrom when Harry met Sally.
Now, apparently they floatedseveral different actors.
Actually, tom Hanks was one ofthe ones that they thought about
doing, but he was too nice.

(19:03):
Yeah, he's too nice.
Yeah.
There were a couple others, I'mnot blanking on who, but they
wanted someone who had an edgewho you could not.
It was possible to not like andapparently during filming, when
Harold Ramis would be trying tolet Bill Murray know what he
should be doing in this scene,he'd just be like no, no, no,

(19:25):
Good Phil or bad Phil.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Which am I today.
That's what Bill.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Murray would say yeah , and I think that it's really.
I think what's important abouthis, his moral arc, is that,
like Harry, he goes fromthinking of the people around
him as non-player characters torecognizing that they are full
and complete human beings.

(19:52):
And it is amazing that he doesthat because technically they
are so, because, like a videogame, he responds over and over
again and nothing happens to theother people.
Right, they do the same thingevery single time.
So like that is, I think reallyit's tremendous.

(20:19):
It's a tremendous thing thatallows us to see that he
recognizes how egotistical andself-centered he was even before
he got stuck in the time loop,because he is doing something
that would be very hard to dowhen you know that nothing
matters to the people around you, especially that last kind of

(20:44):
perfect day that he has.
So he has a very good day withRita.
When he starts off saying likeI think I'm a God and like I can
prove to you by everything, atthe end of that day she
disappears and it's because he'sstill thinking of himself.
He's still thinking of likethis is what I am, rather than

(21:08):
thinking about like what can Ido to make your life better?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
like, what's coming up for me, as we're talking
about this film and about, likethe moral arc and your point
that like they are non-playercharacters, but what's coming up
for me is sort of the idea that, like groundhog day forced him
to like, no, look at it.
He's like, yeah, I'm looking at, no, look at it.
No, look at them.
Like and it's not.

(21:42):
And so even in the like I'm aGod, like I'm looking at them, I
know where they're going to be,but he's not actually looking
at them.
Right, and that was the pointthat you made about Harry in
when Harry Met Sally is that hewasn't actually like worthy to
be our love interest, to beSally's love interest, until he
started actually seeing her as afull human being and he got

(22:06):
there through his own pain to acertain extent, and I think that
, like so there's a little bitof that here, but you know the
pain, but also just friggingstick-to-itiveness of this time
loop.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Well, and that gets to something that I think is
very important, especially weare recording this 10 days
before the inauguration, whichis that early on.
Phil has an agenda.

(22:42):
So you know he's doing things,no consequences.
And so, like he asks her nameis Nancy, this attractive young
woman, what her name is, herhigh school and 12th grade
English teacher.
Because you know, if you put inthe quarters, in the machine
over here, sex will come outover there, right, right, it's

(23:05):
an agenda, completelytransactional, yes and so, and
he does that with you know, youknow figuring out when the
Briggs securities truck wouldallow him to steal money.
He does that with like,whatever it is to cut off.
Mrs Lancaster, who is themanager of the bed and breakfast

(23:26):
, asks him chit-chat questionsthat he's really uncomfortable
with, like, just notuncomfortable with, he doesn't
like, and so he knows what she'sgoing to say.
So he preempts it and amuseshimself by doing that instead of
, you know, actually interactingwith this person.
And so he tries to bring thatsort of transactional nature,

(23:47):
that agenda, to seducing Rita.
And it doesn't work and it's inpart because of who Rita is,
and that's when he gets, whenlike, over and over and over
again.
He's trying, he's putting allthis work in and he's not
getting the sex out and he getsdepressed and starts killing

(24:08):
himself.
And the reason why I think thisis so important at this
particular moment in time isbecause I uh, I had this
realization last year or theyear before, where I have been
pretty politically active sinceI was a late teenager.

(24:28):
Now, I mean, I'm not going tosay I would not call myself an
activist, but I have votedwithout fail in every election
that I was eligible for.
I actually, even before thefirst Trump presidency, made
calls to my representatives.
I do stuff.
I consider it part of my civicduty to know what's going on in

(24:52):
my country and in my locality.
I try to do stuff and it feelslike the world has gotten worse
in the time that I've done thatI truly believe in feels like
the world has gotten worse inthe time that I've done that.
You know, I truly believe in it, and the world has gotten worse
.
And I mentioned this to mytherapist and she pointed out

(25:13):
she had read something or seensomething talking about when the
enormous, gorgeous cathedralsin Europe were being built.
The people who started buildingthem knew that it was going to
take a hundred years and thattheir children's children might
not see it done.
But that didn't mean theystopped.
And that resonated with mebecause I'm a writer, I'm a

(25:37):
writer and so while I do writebecause I want to get published,
when I am focused on writing topublish, I'm miserable, whereas
if I just write for the joy ofit, it is fulfilling and

(25:58):
meaningful and wonderful.
And that allowed me to kind ofremember, like you know, I'm not
politically active because it'sgoing to.
You know, if I put the quartersin the uh, the the better
legislation comes out.
What, what a wonderful world itwould be if that's how it
worked.
I do it because it fulfillssomething in me, it feels good,

(26:21):
I respect myself for doing it,and so the doing, it is the
meaning.
The meaning is in the action,and that is what Phil learns,
because at a certain point youcan say, like, what he does is
useless, quote, unquote, becauseit all resets again the next

(26:42):
day.
But that doesn't matter,because there's meaning in doing
it, there is self-respect,there's joy, there is, you know,
just fulfillment in learningthe piano, in helping these
three little old ladies who area little overwhelmed, with the
flat tire, in making sure thatthe mayor doesn't choke on a

(27:04):
piece of beef in trying to showkindness and save the homeless
man, even if he is doomed.
In all of those actions, thereis meaning whether or not it's
still there the next day foreach of these people or not it's
still there the next day foreach of these people.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
I think I think that's all right.
I completely agree and I thinkthe thing that I like a lot,
that I think I named at thebeginning too, like the, the
reason that Rita doesn'tdisappear at the end of the
movie, is because ultimately nowhe has changed Right.

(27:47):
So, like he's done all thiswork which in the time loop
doesn't actually change theworld, at least not in any
lasting way, but it has changedhim and that's what interrupts
the constant resetting, that'swhat interrupts the loop and I
think that's a significant andimportant philosophical like.

(28:09):
I see how this is Jewish right,Like the fundamentals of Musar,
like Jewish ethics, is like wechange our behavior to change
our hearts and our souls.
That's what Phil does heartsand our souls.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
That's what Phil does .
There is a very interestingsermon that I think Colney Dre
sermon that I will link in theshow notes, from a rabbi, I
think in England, talking aboutthis movie and comparing it to
Jonah.
Actually, so, listeners, thestory of Jonah, you probably
remember Jonah being eaten bythe whale or the giant fish.

(28:45):
But once he's he, that happensbecause he does not want to be a
prophet.
When he finally accepts the,the, the fact that he has to do
this, he goes to please NinevehI thought it was.
Nineveh Goes to Nineveh sayinglike God's going to destroy
Nineveh unless you change yourways.
And they do, and then he'spissed off.
Then he's pissed off becauselike, look, I came all this way

(29:08):
and you didn't destroy them.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
Well, it even says, like I knew you were merciful.
That's why I didn't want tocome to Nineveh in the first
place.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yes, and so there's this very interesting comparison
, saying like very interestingcomparison, saying like where
the rabbi is basically talkingabout how phil has a similar
kind of reaction, like it'sgoing to reset anyway, so why do
I even bother?
But once he like embraces hisrole, he is allowed to move

(29:40):
forward and I find that justlovely and fascinating.
The other aspect of it and thisis what it shares with Buddhism
that I see as very Jewish is inJudaism we do a lot of
repetition, so we have specialprayers that we repeat every

(30:01):
week on shabbat.
We have the prayers that repeatevery year on um for the more
orthodox among us, there areprayers that happen every day
multiple times a day, yeah, and,and then we also do like we
also consider ourselves to betime bound in a way that is,

(30:22):
specifically during the PassoverSeder.
We talk about when we werethere as if, as if.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
As if we were there.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
And as if it is happening again and again, and
again, and so one of the thingsthat I really like about this
aspect of our faith is that wealways get another chance to try
again.
We always have anotheropportunity.
So the year that we moved hereto Milwaukee, passover is my

(30:56):
favorite holiday and I wasoverwhelmed and didn't know how
to put together anything, and mykids were five and two at the
time and I felt like I'm being abad Jew, a bad mother, by not
celebrating Passover with them.
Opportunity the next year andlike those like stack onto each

(31:26):
other and any one might beforgettable, but they all
together create, create this,this kind of mosaic of, of, of
repetition, and so sometimes Ifeel it Like I feel the bracha
when I say it, and sometimes Ijust say it and it doesn't feel
like anything.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's meaningful.
Bracha means blessing.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yes, it's meaningful because I do it.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
And so that is, I think, a lot of what Jewish
scholars and just see the thatresonates with them from this
film.
But it also is a an importantecho of um buddhist ideas of the
cyclical nature of the worldand sansara which is about I'm

(32:15):
not not a scholar of this, butit's, it's the the cycle of
birth, life, death, rebirth,over and over again, and then in
Buddhism the idea is that lifeis suffering and the way that we

(32:36):
escape sansara is try torelieve suffering, which we see
Phil do, and he does it withoutany agenda, without any kind of
transactional idea, without anyagenda, without any kind of
transactional idea.
I mean, there is a very funnymoment when he catches the kid
falling out of the tree andsaves him from a broken leg.
You see him going.
What do you say?
What do you say?
You never say thank you.
You never say thank you.
I'll see you tomorrow, maybe.
So what I also appreciate, likePhil's allowed to be human.

(33:02):
Yeah, you know he is a muchbetter man, but he is still a
little annoyed.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, I'm curious to hear can you walk me through?
Or maybe you can't, but can youwalk me through?
Like, what's the Christian likeclaim to this movie?

Speaker 1 (33:25):
That I have trouble with.
I will tell you the littlebitet Christmas Carol.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Muppet Christmas.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Carol, like to die to yourself in a much more
metaphorical rather than literalway, like Ebenezer Scrooge
literally dies to himself, and Imean Phil literally does when
he is dying by suicide over andover again.
But that does not cause him todie to himself, like he's still

(34:02):
saying, like I think, I'm godand it's once he realizes he
needs to focus outward that heis able to like, escape this
kind of purgatory and and reachhis reward.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Okay, that would be my guess I mean there's
certainly like the good works,like like from um scroogege to
like make the world better, likethe power that you have with
good works to make.
Okay, All right Cool.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And again, one of the one of the things that I
appreciate about how this filmshows this is that it's Phil has
that perfect day because he ispresent in the moment.
In that perfect day, he's nottrying to get to February 3rd.
That's Buddhist, yes, and it'salso, I feel like.

(34:55):
I feel like it's also Jewish,because we do mitzvot.
It's like good deeds not to getsomething, but because they are
mitzvot.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
I mean God told us to they're commandments.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yes, but not doing them is not something that's
going to.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Depends on who you ask.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, tekin olam I.
I mean, that is we.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
We do that because it's so, because of not to get
anything from it tikkun olamlisteners means repair of the
world and it it comes from a, anold idea that it's something
fundamental, sort of shatteredwhen, when God was creating the

(35:48):
world.
And now it's our job to like,find those pieces and put them
back together.
And we do that by doing gooddeeds and putting good out into
the world.
And and and repair the world is, you know, fairly
straightforward.
Yeah, I mean we don't do it forsome sort of reward in the like
kind of way, like popularizedversion that sometimes folks

(36:10):
will talk about.
Reward in terms of like in theafterlife or something.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, so I think it also relates to Pirkei Avot,
which is like the teachings ofour fathers.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, but it's like a long book and that's one
sentence in it, okay.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
My favorite part of the Pirkei Avot, which is that
you are not obligated tocomplete the work, but neither
shall you desist from it orneither may you desist from it.
Right.
And that's something I sharedwith a friend recently on social
media.
She has been very locallyactive in politics, running for

(36:48):
office and things like that in avery, very conservative area,
and just getting pummeled andfeeling like not knowing if
she's doing the right thing bydeciding to step back from it
thing by deciding to step backfrom it.
And so I shared that that linewith her because I find that
very helpful, because it's itreminds us that you know,
everything does not rely on us,but we can do what we can do.

(37:12):
Right.
And, as I mentioned at the topof this, the, the I think really
helpful to look to like thismovie and the this idea in the
coming years.
As you know it's, there's somereally scary shit coming down

(37:33):
the pike.
Yeah, because it is so easy tosay it.
Well, we're not going to fix it, so might as well give up and
have the in-between moments thatPhil does where he's like I
just want out of this, but thatis no path forward.

(37:53):
Right.
And recognizing this might notdo anything, but that doesn't
mean it's not worth doing.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Right, right.
Bryan Stevenson said that hopeis the enemy of injustice.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, and I in fact think that we have a
responsibility to hope.
Yeah.
And this is one of the thingsthat I wrote in the Fast Company
article.
Part of what's tough about thesituation that Phil finds
himself in is that there is notomorrow, and so that means that
he can't plan for tomorrow, hecan't make things better for his

(38:30):
future life, because he'ssitting in this moment, right
now, and in my day job as afinancial writer, I have had
people say to me like I don'tsee the point in saving for
retirement because climatechange is going to negate
anything, you know?
uh like, if we've got a fascistgovernment, why should I be

(38:50):
worried about social security?
And my feeling is like, well,the forces of chaos and evil
have already won if we decidethat.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, if we step away , yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, so live in the moment but hope for and plan for
a better future.
Sure and so.
And the Phil learning how toplay the piano is actually a
really good example of that,Because there is very little he
can carry from one day to thenext right?

Speaker 3 (39:27):
I mean, there is all knowledge just in his head all
he can carry for one day to thenext.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
So, like he, it's interesting that the the art
that he commits to is music andice sculptures, both of which
are ephemeral.
Because you know he can't writea novel, right?
You know he can't paint apainting.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Not have it stick around, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Not have it stick around, but he finds a way to
invest in his future.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Right, even in a single day.
Yeah, that's really nice, it'smade to be ephemeral, that's
really nice.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, that's really nice.
Is made to be ephemeral, that'sreally nice.
That I feel like is is shows agreat way of committing to self
care.
Yeah, and is is just, it'slovely.
And he gets to he his.
His piano teacher is so funnybecause he tells her every day

(40:20):
I've never had a lesson beforetoday, which is true, and so we
see her like so proud of himplaying.
Like that's my student.
He's clearly an expert.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I'd love to hear more about the Fast Company article
or like the conclusions that youdrew in it.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yeah, so one of the things I talk about is live in
the moment but work for a betterfuture, and so he learns to do
that, as I mentioned with theice sculpting and music.
But to apply this to ourfinances I was talking about, we
tend to have like binarythinking, where it's either we

(41:01):
either think like retirement'snever going to happen, so I'm
going to live like there's notomorrow, or I'm I'm despairing,
like I'm worried, so I'm notgoing to do anything, so, which
is when he he continues to killhimself, so like we avoid
spending any money for fear ofan uncertain future.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
So we act as if we can spend money now or we can
spend money later, and we haveto choose between the two.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yes, yes, but you need to find a way to do both,
like live in the moment and planand hope for a better future.
The other moment, so early on,I think on his third iteration,
he's wondering like why couldn'tit have been this day?
When I was in the VirginIslands, I met a girl.
We ate lobster, we made love,and so he like laments being

(41:50):
stuck in western Pennsylvania inFebruary which is kind of
reasonable.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
It's legit yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
But then he learns to embrace where he is.
Uh he is like make the most ofwhere you are, because you can't
change the fact that you arewhere you are.
Right, right, and so in termsof, like, finances and career
and stuff like that, you know weare often stuck somewhere.
We didn't choose dead end joblocation, we didn't choose

(42:22):
difficult family situation, butif you find what's good in where
you are, you're going to bemuch happier and it's not going
to get you out of there anyfaster.
But neither is moping about it,right, sure, and then the last
thing that I talk about is theonly thing you have control over
is yourself.
And then the last thing that Italk about is the only thing you

(42:43):
have control over is yourself.
And so, like, phil is trying tocontrol other things, starting
with, like, on February 1, waysthat he can respond to what she
might do or say, and then comesto realize that, no, I am the

(43:12):
only one I can control.
And so, in terms of finances,people will put the agency on
other things, agency on their onother things, like they'll be
mad about the inheritance that,uh, you know didn't come through
, or mad that the stock marketdied at the wrong time, or like
complain about you know, don'tmake enough money and all you

(43:32):
can change is yourself, um, andso you need to make plans and do
things based on who you are andwhat you can do, rather than
putting trying to control otherpeople or putting your your
hopes on what other people willdo cool nice, thank you.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
So does this?
Does this film pass the Bechdeltest?
Sort of yes, um, there areactually there are a number of
named female characters yes, sorita and doris, who works at the
diner, talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
At one point rita tells her these sticky buns are
to die for, okay so they talkabout the sticky buns yeah.
And then, at another point,while phil is trying to prove to
her that he knows everything,he's like like, oh, this is
Doris.
She da-da-da-da and Doris.
Oh yeah, that's right to her,as do a couple of other women in
the diner.
And then the three little oldladies with the flat tire.

(44:31):
I know that they have names,but it's one of those like it's
like Phil knows their name.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Okay, I don't know if I do, and they talk to each
other about something besidesPhil.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yes, they talk about like the flat tire, and then
when he starts jacking it up,they're like, oh, it's an
earthquake.
No, it's not an earthquake.
So they're talking to eachother about the circumstances
there.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Okay, cool.
So, and just a reminder,listeners the Bechdel test from
Alison Bechdel from her zinelike to watch out for.
The questions are are there atleast two female characters?
Do they both have names?
Do they talk to each otherabout something other than a boy
or man?
Cool, okay.
Anything we haven't coveredthat you want to make sure you

(45:13):
talk about.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
So there's one thing that I'm trying to figure out
how I feel about Cool.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
You mentioned Ned Ryerson, played brilliantly by
Stephen Tobolowsky, who is mygo-to reference for insurance
salespeople.
Totally.
He is really over the top like.
Refuses to take no for ananswer, like you know, ignores

(45:39):
social cues and then ends withlike watch out for that first
step.
It's a doozy when Phil steps inthis big puddle of water icy
water.
So Ned is really annoying andwe are not supposed to like Ned.
And one of the like kindestthings that we see Phil do is on

(46:01):
that perfect day he actuallybuys a whole bunch of insurance
from Ned.
Right and Ned's like it's thebest day of my life, right and
Rita and Phil are able to shakeNed off.
And we see him try a couple ofdifferent things to get Ned to
leave him alone throughout thedifferent days he pushes him, he
punches him, he punches him,runs away from him, stuff like

(46:25):
that.
But early on, after Phil hasthe realization I'm going to try
to make the best of this.
We see him see Ned Ryersongreet him.
Like Ned Ryerson, it's not overthe top because Phil's very
sarcastic, it's more like NedRyerson.
Like, not like.
It's not over the top because,like Phil's very sarcastic, it's
, it's more like Ned Ryerson,you know like and shakes his

(46:46):
hand, and then he grabs him andhugs him and says I don't know
where you're going, but can youcall in sick?
As as if he's hitting on him.
And it gets Ned to be like, oh,I got to go and run away on him
.
And it gets ned to be like, oh,I gotta go and run away.

(47:07):
And I'm not sure how I feelabout that because, on the one
hand, gay panic is not a goodlook.
On the other, in some ways,phil is using what Ned does back
at him, which is like justignoring social cues.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Also a, an assumed familiarity that is
inappropriate for the actualrelationship.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Because they went to high school together, right Like
they do know each other.
So, um, there's no other likehomophobia in the film.
There's a, there's one, one ofthe uh, the people that uh Phil
says like oh, and there's thisperson.
There's this person.
There's a young man named, Ithink, kenny.
He's like, uh, he collects this.

(47:56):
He started working here when hehad to leave Penn state and
he's gay and he's like oh, yeah,I am, and that's just matter of
fact.
Yeah, so.
So I just kind of wanted tomention that because, um, you
know, when I saw it in 1993, Ithought that was hilarious, the
way that, uh, phil handled Ned,and in some ways I am thinking

(48:17):
about how you will see maleallies use that kind of behavior
on men who are creeping onwomen, which is, you know, thank
you.
But we do see, like Phil andLarry, played by Chris Elliott,

(48:39):
the cameraman, are over familiarwith women and we don't.
We see Larry get shot down andlike, obviously Phil gets shot
down over and over again.
So maybe it's it's, it's justrecognizing, like this over
familiarity is not okay, stop it.
But yeah, it just it.

(49:01):
It stood out to me and I wantedto kind of bring that up and
see if you had any thoughts.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
I mean, one thing that occurs to me is that, like
they put the gay panic on theguys with a guy who is so
unlikable Mm-hmm Right, wedidn't.
We don't see Phil do it.
Yeah, I mean, he elicits it,but we don't see him express it,
certainly not as good PhilRight.
And so that feels like itmitigates it a bit to me, since

(49:30):
Ned is so unlikable, so he's nota villain.
I don't think there is avillain in this film, but he's
very unlikable.
So, having it be him, I dothink that the the kind of
meaning that you just sketchedout we never see over
familiarity work, and in factwhen it is manufactured it

(49:53):
really doesn't work.
I mean, maybe that's actuallythe allegory, is that the
synecdoche of phil with ned iswhat phil's trying to do with
rita when he gets slapped overand over and over again.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
You know the only thing that takes away from that
a little bit is that thishappens after he stops doing
that.
It's, this is part of his.
Like I'm a whole new phil.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Oh, interesting it's also he's doing it on purpose
with phil, like he with ned.
Excuse me, he's doing.
This is part of his like I'm awhole new Phil.
Oh, interesting, it's also he'sdoing it on purpose with Phil,
like he with Ned.
Excuse me, he's doing it onpurpose with Ned.
He knows how Ned will react, somaybe the whole new person
knows that over.
He's going to make this guy goaway because it made Rita go
away.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I it like.
I wouldn't.

(50:44):
I would not want to see thatjoke written into a 2025 remake
of Groundhog Day.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yeah, I think, or at least I'd want more nuance
around it, or?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
commentary or something In 93, like, looking
back on it, I also thought itwas hilarious, by the way, and
with the other things that we'vejust named, like I'm not
offended, I guess is where I'mlanding.
Yeah, yeah, Like it's not agood look, but Ned's not a good

(51:20):
look, Bing, yeah, so you knowNed's not a good look, and like
in some ways it's Phil kind oflike I got your number asshole.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, to be fair tophil and and the film, like his
perfect day, he buys aridiculous amount of life
insurance and other insurancefrom, uh, from ned.
So like he, he is kind rightsomeone who even to the asshole

(51:59):
yeah yeah, yeah so cool.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
All right, all right.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
So I guess, in conclusion, it's complicated,
all right, anything else beforeI try and reflect back to you
what I heard oh, with the onething I one of the reasons why I

(52:27):
think this film is brilliant isthat there is never any
explanation for the time loop.
There was originally written anexplanation that that phil was
cursed by an ex-girlfriend orsomething like that, and they
decided to cut it out, and Ithink that that is exactly right
yeah because it's it just.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
No, I yeah, the mystery that's part of the power
of it is the mystery, rightright, which, like in a recent
episode we named the fact that,like george lucas forgot when he
was making the prequels andlike gave us this whole
midichlorian exposition thingabout the forest, which is like,
come on, dude, just let it be.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
It's.
The mystery is kind of likewhat's what's cool?
Yeah, especially, I also think,not having the explanation as
part of what allows us to be sobeloved by these multiple faith
traditions.
Oh yeah, I think if he had beencursed by an ex-girlfriend, I'm
not sure that it would havebeen like the overarching
messaging and meaning wouldstill be there, but it would be

(53:23):
harder to embrace.
In the same way, I suspect, ifwe had a specific named reason
for the for the loop.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
yeah yeah uh, the other thing, you know, because
we need to talk about, like howfilmmakers make their decisions
and things like that, I readtoday that, because the level of
snow would change from like dayto day, because you know you
get the thing, yeah, severalseveral months or weeks anyway
to film this.
They did all of the day, likeall of the repeated moments In

(53:57):
the same day At the same timeInteresting.
So when he meets Ned Ryerson,they did that Like there's five
of them, I think maybe six, andthey did all of them in the same
day to make sure that oh wow,so he was stepping into that
puddle over and over.
It was like his own personalgroundhog day.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yeah, wowie, wow, that's cool.
That's cool to know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, I thought that was just really fascinating, the
artistry of, I mean the factthat I noticed that the little
boy with the broken leg, likenever.
I mean I've seen that movie,this movie so many times the
first time I ever noticed it.
Yeah, yeah.
They thought it through, yeah,and then like they really did an

(54:53):
excellent job of making surethe extras were where they're
supposed to be in the.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
I mean, like it's just the the level of detail for
a movie about time loop, it'sjust, I like I love when
filmmakers take the craftseriously, seriously, yeah, well
, especially when it's like formainstream enjoyment, you know,

(55:16):
or or, or, or even lowbrowenjoyment, when they're like we
know.
This is like taking the mediumand the content seriously
without taking oneself seriouslyis something that the Guy
sisters tend to be drawn to,definitely.
Yeah, all right.
So, emily, congratulations you.

(55:37):
With this single episode, havebroken all of the conventional
taboos and talked about religion, politics and money.
Have broken all of theconventional taboos and talked
about religion, politics andmoney.
Mazel tov my sister Mazel tovthis is why I don't get invited
to dinner parties.
So religion Groundhog Day isclaimed by multiple faith

(56:06):
traditions as being allegoricaland somehow like, resonant and
and important for understandingtheir theology, notably Judaism,
buddhism and at least someforms of Christianity.
You named Jesuit when we firststarted talking, so, and this,
these two Jewish sisters are theleast clear on how it's
Christian.
So so, listeners, if you wantto like, write in and like, let
us know, like, love to hear it,cause we're we're, we're, uh,

(56:30):
we're driving blind here.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
I mean not totally blind.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
But, like you know, we're talking like I don't know,
like 20, a hundred or 2,200here.
It's just, that's definitelynot 2020.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
I did.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
I did need Erica to define the idea of self, for me
recently, right, but the ways inwhich it is Jewish and Buddhist
is sort of the Jewish, like Inamed Musar in particular, which
is Jewish ethics, which is athousand-year-old discipline
that has us change our behaviorin order to change our heart and

(57:03):
our souls, and so Groundhog Daydefinitely shows us that.
And we also see that he getsout of the loop when his reason
for behaving stops being himself.
So that also feels really sortof being himself.

(57:27):
So that also feels really sortof spiritual, theological, in
terms of Buddhist resonance.
We see again sort of his moveto alleviate suffering is what
gets him out of the loop, andalso sort of the focus on the
now feels both Jewish andBuddhist and the recognition
that one has to change oneselfbecause one can't change the

(57:49):
world.
Also both Jewish and Buddhistand maybe Christian, I don't
know.
I've studied a tiny tiny bitAnyway.
So that was religion, politics.
We talked about the fact that,put as succinctly as Bryan
Stevenson can, who is a verysuccinct and beautifully elegant

(58:09):
speaker, hope is the enemy ofinjustice.
We even see how it leads tonihilism, like nothing he does
matters, in a very sort ofliteral sense, if what we mean

(58:30):
by matters is get out of theloop, and yet the sort of
fundamental thesis of the storyis that it actually does matter,
even if it doesn't get him outof the loop.
Those are not the same thing.
And so your point in terms ofpolitics, you used the very
succinct and beautifully elegantphrase from Pierre K Avot, the
Ethics of the Fathers, which isin book two, that says you are

(58:55):
not obligated to complete thework, but neither may you desist
from it.
And so that sort of idea thatwe, or that's that idea that we
do what we can even if it's notgoing to be done, which is so
also like, exactly summed up inthe cathedral builders of

(59:16):
medieval and Renaissance,renaissance medieval Europe, who
would, you know, know that itwould take a hundred years to
finish the thing that they werebreaking ground on, and they did
it anyway because they were notuh, you know, they were not
free to desist and the and itwas still worth doing so.

(59:37):
Okay, so that was religion andpolitics, and religion and
politics.
And then we talked about money,because you wrote this
semi-viral article for FastCompany about some of the money
lessons that come out ofGroundhog Day, which include,
like finding a balance betweensort of living in the now and

(59:57):
planning and hoping for thefuture, like you're allowed to
spend now, but you also need tosave.
So find a way to get a balancewith your income.
And there were others that letme see.
There was um, you can onlycontrol yourself.
You can only control yourself.
So, like, don't like, sitaround moping about what the

(01:00:18):
stock market is doing, figuringout what you can do.
And there was a third.
What was your third?
Make the most of where you are.
Right, it doesn't matter thatyou're in Punxsutawney and not
in the Virgin Islands, likePunxsutawney will give back what
you put into it.
So you make the most of whereyou are.
We talked very briefly aboutgender.
This movie does pass the Bechdeltest and then we spent a little

(01:00:43):
bit of time sort of thinkingthrough a moment when, when Phil
is actually kind of at the end,when he does the best day, that
actually gets him out of theloop.
He, no, sorry, yeah.
When he does the best day, he,he, he buys a bunch of insurance
from Ned.
But in an earlier iteration,after he's sort of decided to be

(01:01:07):
a better guy and make the mostof it, he bypasses Ned Ryerson,
this really obnoxious insurancesalesman who we went to high
school with, by being overfamiliar with him and sort of
making a pass at him that makesNed run away.
And so we spent a little timesort of talking that through and
like it's not a good look.

(01:01:29):
Like leaning on gay panic isnot a good look.
The movie makers put that badlook on a bad guy, or at least a
unlikable guy, and so sort ofthinking through, like in the
meta, like what messages are wegetting for that?
And I think we landed on it'scomplicated and for 1993, like

(01:01:52):
it feels like actually, you knowif not progressive thing in
thinking through the artistryand the gravitas with which the
filmmakers took their task, nottheir subject, but their task,

(01:02:14):
insofar as to make sure that thesnow and the environment was
the same for each of the kind ofloops.
They filmed all of the NedRyerson outdoor parking lot
scenes on the same day to makesure that the external stuff was
the same.
And insofar as they took suchgreat pains to make sure the
extras weren't exactly the rightspot.
To like, on the day one of thedays he doesn't save the boy who

(01:02:36):
falls out of the tree, we seehim in the background with his
leg broken and those sorts oflike echoes throughout the movie
, so that it does have like areally rich and comprehensive
something that we both tend tobe really drawn to, that really

(01:03:09):
yields beautiful product andalso can move medium along, move
media along and like lead tonew and unexpected and
unconventional outputs.
And I see that you think Iforgot something and you need to
add it, so let me hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
It's not that I think you forgot.
Something I'm realizing that iswhat Phil is doing on his last
day is he is taking his craftseriously.
We even see that.
We see his broadcast severaltimes and they tend to be like
phoned in sort of perfunctory,yeah, functory or or just nasty,

(01:03:48):
and he really like he, he talksabout, uh, like he brings in
checkoff and and you know, liketalks about what, what winter is
, and like, and everyone sayslike that was beautiful.
And so he is taking the craftseriously, but not himself,
because he knows he's going todo it again tomorrow.
I love it.

(01:04:10):
So, and the one other thing Iwanted to mention that we talked
about is what he builds forhimself is he realizes.
Now, part of this is at onepoint Rita says she'd want a guy
who plays an instrument, solike he's interested in music,
in part because it'll get thegirl, but he chooses music and

(01:04:30):
ice sculpting as things to learnbecause he can hold on to it
from one day to the next andbecause they are both kind of
ephemeral arts, and I love that.
There are things that cannot betaken from you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
Yeah, right, right, beautiful, okay.
The one other thing I did Ialso want to lift back up in my
kind of recap is that we namedthat Phil is sort of similar to
Harry from when Harry met Sally,and so in this, as far as the
story arc, that, like harrydoesn't become a guy who's
worthy of sally's love and our,the viewer's, kind of affection,
like to be our hero, until hestarts realizing that other

(01:05:14):
people are fully formed humanbeings and specifically, that
women are not just vaginas withlegs.
And phil goes through a similartransformation, except in some
ways his is even more noteworthybecause, as you put it, harry
and Phil both win, if you will.

(01:05:35):
They both kind of grow whenthey stop treating other people
as non-player characters in therole-playing game.
But the truth is that for Philthey are non-player characters
because they do the exact samething every single time.
So his being able to fully seethem is in some ways even more
admirable or a bigger shift thanwith Harry and when Harry met

(01:05:58):
Sally Cool, all right.
So next time, em, yeah, you'rebringing something to me.
Next time I am bringing you mybig thoughts, my deep thoughts
about big, the tom hanks movieoh, that's amazing so, yeah, I'm
looking forward to watching itagain.
It's been a long.
I haven't seen it in a longtime, yeah.

(01:06:19):
So I'm a little bit worried, tobe honest, but but I'm excited.
So see you then.
I'll see you then.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom slash, sign up
and share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy, butdon't wait, there's a limited

(01:06:41):
quantity.
Is that easy?
But don't wait, there's alimited quantity.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?

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