December 10, 2024 • 72 mins
The Goonies never say die!
One of the most quintessential Gen X films, The Goonies, makes for some significant mind furniture: good, bad, and kid-shaped. Richard Donner’s beloved 1985 film gave Gen X kids on-screen peers who talked like we did. They cursed and talked over one another and were cruel and sweet and they went on fabulous adventures. It also gave us unhealthy fatphobia, contradictory messages about greed, and a legendary pirate named after a penis. A lot about this film will garner cringes from contemporary viewers, but Emily notes that under the dated humor, fatphobia, sexism, racial stereotypes, and just plain silliness, there is a sweetness and hear that continues to shine through, especially in the person of Sloth and his relationship with Chunk and the other Goonies, his chosen family.
Throw on your headphones and have a listen, no truffle shuffle required.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
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We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It never ends Like the food jokes are from the
beginning to the very end.
There is never a point wherethere's not a food joke.
If Chunk is on screen, there'sgoing to be a food joke within
the next you know, 90 seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
What others might deem stupid shit.
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
We're sisters, tracyacy andemily, collectively known as the
guy girls.
Every week, we take turnsre-watching, researching and
reconsidering beloved media andsharing what we learn.
Come over, think with us and ifyou get value from the show,
(00:39):
please consider supporting us.
You can become a patron onPatreon or send us a one-time
tip through Ko-fi.
Both links are in the shownotes and thanks.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will bediscussing the 1985 film the
(01:10):
Goonies with my sister, tracyGuy-Decker, and with you, let's
dive in.
So, trace, I associate thisfilm with you and our cousin,
chris, but it's one that, like,I remember really liking.
I remember moments of it, andso when I saw it again as an
adult for the first time, likewhen I was in college, I
remember being really shocked bysome of the rather adult humor
(01:33):
in it.
Tell me what you recall aboutthis film.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I don't remember much, honestly, like I
think I.
I know that I saw it with youand Chris, I know that I saw it
with you and Chris when we werekids, like kid kids, and I know
there's like an undergroundportion and there's the guy who
has physical challenges and Iguess emotional and mental as
(02:00):
well, who says, hey, you guyslike, uh, the electric company
and, um, it's a bunch of kidsand it's an adventure and that's
all I got.
And I feel a little bit of, um,generational shame, uh, that I
would stand up and say I somehowrepresent gen x and not know
(02:23):
the basic plot of the goonies.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Like.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, gen X, I feel like I'm
letting you down, so I'm reallyglad that you're here to set me
rights.
Why are we talking about this,em?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So this is in a lot of ways like the like late Gen X
kid movie and it feels a lotlike what things like Stranger
(02:56):
Things are trying to capture now.
And there is a lot that peopleare nostalgic about about this
film and in some ways for goodreason but there's a lot that
makes this a very mid-80s timecapsule that, um, doesn't look
great with, uh, modern eyes.
(03:18):
This is one where, uh, as Iremember seeing it as a kid,
remember really liking it, therewere moments that stuck in my
head that I could just seeeasily.
But then when I was I think Iwas a junior or senior in
college someone did the Gooniesoutdoors and so we all went and
(03:46):
saw it and it was the first timeI'd seen it in probably 10
years and I had not known,realized, remembered that the
pirate whose treasure they areafter is named One-Eyed Willie,
and I was like holy cow.
I saw this as a tiny littlebaby and I had no idea.
(04:10):
So that kind of stuff I findreally interesting to like
revisit things.
That and because the moviedoesn't change, I do Right, the
movie doesn't change, I do Right.
And there there's media that Ihave so consistently watched
(04:31):
throughout my life that I Idon't really have the chance to
change, if you know what I mean.
This is one I definitely didbecause like I saw it I don't
know I'd say a lot, but it feltlike like I knew it reasonably
well as a elementary school kidDidn't see it again until I was
like 20 or 21.
And a lot had changed in thattime.
(04:52):
And then I think this is thefirst time I've seen it since
then, so like another 25 yearsin between, and so my viewpoint
on this film has changed so much.
And it's some of this has to dowith cultural change.
Some of this has to do with,you know, my personalogyny, that
is, ableism, because of thecharacter who has the Honestly
(05:39):
that's one thing it does well isit does seem in a lot of ways
to be a story of inclusion.
Okay, so there there are.
There's some aspects of it thatI think aren't necessarily
great.
Um, but uh, but that actually,I think, um it, it.
It's a better representative ofthat than what you see a lot of
(06:04):
, and in fact, the 80s, oddlysometimes, were really good
about inclusion.
Do you remember the movie Macand Me?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Big.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, it's terrible.
I remember seeing it, but it'slike an ET ripoff.
Oh, it is, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I was thinking that it was like the Navigator, but
that's a different one that's adifferent one.
There is space flight of somekind in Mac and Me.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
There's an alien comes to Earth.
Okay, the main character is awheelchair user and it just is.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
That just is.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And they don't make a big deal about it, nobody makes
a big deal about it, it just is.
So I'm make a big deal about it, nobody makes a big deal about
it, it just is.
So I'm thinking like in someways, the 80s was pretty
progressive for some things butnot for others.
Yeah, yeah, so let me just kindof give you like the bare bones
plot yes, because there's a lotI don't remember at all.
(07:03):
So it takes place in Astoria,oregon.
We start off, we meet theFratelli family.
They are criminals, the MaFratelli and Francis Fratelli,
who is played by Joe Panaglione.
Who, actually?
Who is the guy who plays Cypherin the Matrix?
Oh, actually, who is, um, theguy who plays cypher in the
(07:27):
matrix?
Oh, which, it's one of thoselike six degrees of the goonies
you can play, because there's alot of movie stars who went on
to huge things.
So there's ma francis and theyare breaking jake out of jail,
um, and they go on this likemassive police chase shootout
thing.
(07:47):
We then meet the Goonies.
These are the kids who aregrowing up on the Goondocks of
Astoria, oregon, and theirhouses are being foreclosed on.
And the houses are there.
They have to move out the nextday and the richest people in
Astoria are going to raise thehouses and just build up like a
(08:10):
country club golf course wherethe houses are.
So our main character is Mikey,played by Sean Astin, who is
Samwise Gamgee, so keptexpecting him to go.
Frodo, mr Frodo, his olderbrother, brandon or Brand, is
(08:31):
played by Josh Brolin, who isThanos in the Marvel movies.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Oh, in the Marvels, uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, and then they have several friends.
There's Mouth, played by CoreyFeldman, who is kind of an
obnoxious kid who's also verygood at languages.
There's Data, who is a Chinesekid.
He's played by Kei-Hui Kwan.
I believe it's also known asJonathan K Kwan.
(09:00):
He also was in Indiana Jones asShort Round, and then he was
Waymond in Everything,everywhere, all at Once.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And he stopped acting for a long time.
Like he stopped acting betweenShort Round and.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Waymond, not by choice.
Pretty much yes, and not bychoice because there weren't
roles available for him.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right For adolescent.
Chinese kids.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, or even young adult, because he's a little
older than I am, so he is verymuch a stereotype.
He wears a trench coat and hasall of these gadgets and gizmos
that he's invented that are likeRube Goldbergian type of
(09:47):
inventions.
And then there is Chunk, playedby Jeff Cohen.
His name is Lawrence, buteveryone calls him Chunk because
he is overweight.
So that's the core group of theGoonies.
All of the kids come over toMikey and Bran's house.
They go up into the attic whereMikey and Bran's father is the
(10:10):
curator of the museum, and so hehas a bunch of stuff in the
attic that was from an exhibit.
These were like the rejects forthe exhibit, and there they
find a.
I know that's not how museumcuration works.
I'm talking to someone who's anactual museum professional.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So those of you who are only listening.
I was just giving a veryquizzical look.
I know, Is she my sister?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
This.
These are the there's.
There's a lot of times you'regoing to have to hit the I
believe button.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Oh okay, so for listeners who don't know, I am a
former museum professional andoh, okay, there's.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
There are many times where it's like that's not how
any of this works okay, sothere's artifacts um in in mikey
and brandt's attic, yes, andmostly like pirate.
stuff is what it looks like.
And so they end up finding atreasure map and a doubloon
(11:25):
story to everyone there that hisfather had told him about the
famous pirate One-Eyed Willie,from something like 1637 or
somewhere around there, who wasup against the British, which
actually doesn't really makesense timeline-wise.
It would have been the Spanishin the Pacific Northwest part of
so anyway, he and his crew gotstuck in some sort of cave.
(11:51):
The British were surroundedthem and like caved them in, and
so they ended up they had allthe treasure there with them.
So one-eyed Willie killed allof his companions so that they
couldn't escape with thetreasure, and then he booby
trapped everything and then died.
And so the treasure has beenlost forever.
(12:11):
And Mikey realizes, because hefinds the doubloon separate from
the map, he realizes like wait,I think I know how to find this
.
The map is written in Spanishand it's established that mouth
speaks Spanish fluently.
So the boys find a way to likeget Brand, who has been told to
(12:38):
keep Mikey in the house or elseBrand's going to be in trouble.
They get him, uh, get him, um,immobilized, uh, with one of
those you remember, those uhlike stretchy things, that, uh,
that you'd use for exercising,because they always show brand
exercising.
Sure, uh, they, they, they wrapit around him.
Okay, it's.
(13:18):
Yeah, I believe.
Okay are like wandering around,like looking in this old,
abandoned restaurant, and itturns out that that is the
Fratelli's like base ofoperations.
So they're caught by theFratelli's.
They had seen two people goinginto the restaurant and we later
realized that they were somesort of police officers, fbi,
(13:39):
and they were killed by theFratelli's.
So the four boys get stuck withthe Fratellis and they are
trying to.
They end up escaping.
Mikey ends up seeing there is afourth, fratelli, sloth, who is
the one you were talking about,who has some physical
(14:00):
deformities and apparently hassome kind of cognitive
difficulties as well, who ischained up in the basement in
the the restaurant.
Yeah, so the kids escape andrun out and they, they run into
Brand, who's caught up with them, and then also two girls.
(14:22):
There's Andy, who Brand reallylikes, and Stephanie, her best
friend, and there's a subplotwith the boy that is the son of
the richest man in town.
His name is Troy and he'sreally a piece of crap.
And this is the heyday of the80s.
This is the heyday of the 80s,where bullies were murderous.
(14:46):
What they do is just likethat's sociopathic, that's not
bullying.
So anyway.
So those three, the three16-year-olds, end up joining the
little kids and they, forvarious reasons, they go back
(15:07):
into the restaurant after theFratellis have left, because
Mikey is still looking for theentrance to these caverns.
They end up down in thebasement.
Shenanigans ensue.
They find the entrance to thecavern underneath of a fireplace
.
The Fratellis come back, chunkgets left behind, and so, as
(15:34):
they're heading down into thebasement, he's stuck somewhere.
He gets out and they say to himgo get the police.
We're going down this waybecause it's the only way out.
And so Ch chunk gets to theroad and waves down a car.
It turns out to be theFratellis.
So they take him back and theylock him in.
Well, they ask him where hisfriends are and then they lock
(15:55):
him in with sloth.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So and, as chunk believes, sloth is a danger to
him at this point.
Yes, yes, he's a little scaredof him because I know, like my
recollection is that he becomesone of their allies.
He does, what littlerecollection I have, yeah, but
uh, but at that point they, he,he thinks that sloth is like
some sort of monster yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So while chunk and sloth are in that room together,
all Sloth has is a little TVset and he likes watching TV.
And so there's a point whereSloth kind of roars and Chunk
gets scared.
He's tied to a chair and islike jumping up and down going,
and that makes Sloth laugh.
And so that's the firstindication we have that he's not
(16:42):
a monster.
He's just.
He looks a little scary and istreated very poorly.
The two of them end up bonding.
Chunk has a Baby Ruth candy barwith him that he throws to on
the TV.
There's a cook who's frosting achocolate cake and Sloth says
(17:04):
chocolate, and so Chunk throwshim the oh, do you like
chocolate, I've got some.
There's a cook who's frosting achocolate cake and Sloth says
chocolate, and so Chunk throwshim the oh, do you like
chocolate, I've got some.
And it bounces off of him andthen like falls out of his reach
, and so, even though Sloth hasbeen like sitting in his chains
this entire time, he breaks thechain so he can get the
chocolate, which again scaresChunk.
But then Sloth shares thechocolate with him and is just
(17:28):
very sweet.
Chunk tries to call the police,but they don't believe him
because he has a habit of lying.
So meanwhile the kids end upfinding the first of the booby
traps.
They find a spot where there'slots and lots of coins and they
(17:48):
realize they're underneath of awishing well that is right by
the country club.
It just so happens that Troy,the sociopathic bully, happens
to be up at the top of thewishing well and there's a
bucket there.
They're like oh okay, you canget us out.
And Mikey convinces them tokeep going to see if they can
find the real treasure.
(18:09):
The fratellis, um, they hadbeen asking, chunk, you know
where'd your friends go?
And he tells them everythinglike there's, there's this
pirate ship, there's thistreasure.
Because the fratellis had noidea, and so they follow as well
.
So that's where they are whenSloth and Chunk get out of
Sloth's prison and Chunk callsthe police.
And then so Chunk and Sloth endup following as well.
(18:32):
There are a number ofridiculous hijinks where they
have to get past different boobytraps, the coolest one being
like this piano made of bones,where they have to play the
notes correctly and everymistake they make, the floor
fall, piece of the floor fallsout, and so the only person who
(18:54):
plays piano is Andy, who tooklessons when she was much
younger, and so she's trying todo this, and meanwhile the
Fratellis are catching up tothem trying to do this.
And meanwhile the Fratellis arecatching up to them.
They end up in the cavern wherethe Inferno that's the name of
One-Eyed Willie's ship is, andthey get onto the boat and they
(19:15):
find the room with the treasurein it.
It's surrounded by skeletonsaround the table, and then
there's one with an eye patchthat's it's one-eyed Willie.
Mikey gets up there first andhe like talks to the to to
Willie and says like you werethe first, goonie, and you know
you and I have a lot in commonall of that.
(19:36):
And they start gathering up thetreasure.
There are these like scalestype things, you know, suspended
plates that have gold coins inthem, and so everyone starts
grabbing the treasure.
Mouth starts to grab some fromthose suspended plates and Mikey
says no, no, no, those are forWillie.
Take anything else you want,but leave those.
(19:59):
The Fratellis catch up with themand take all the treasure from
them and then have them tied upand make them walk the plank
when Sloth and Chunk show up andwe saw earlier Sloth watching a
pirate film, so he's doing thethings that he saw, and that's
also when he shouts the.
Hey, you guys, all the Gooniesend up in the water but they
(20:24):
don't have the, the, thetreasure, because the Fratelli
took it off of them.
So they end up.
They find a little spot wherethey can see daylight.
Unfortunately, they havecandles, but one of them is
actually dynamite and they lightit and realize like oh no, and
they ended up causing anotherrock fall.
(20:45):
Yeah, they found the candles onanother body from another
treasure hunter and I believeOkay.
So at this point Sloth is nowhas, like, pushed away his
family and gone to join theGoonies there is a huge rock
(21:09):
that is between them and beingable to get out, and so Sloth,
who is a very, very large man,is able to lift it up, and so
everyone runs underneath hislegs, and Chunk's the last one,
and Chunk's like Slothoth, youhave to come with us and sloth
goes.
Sloth loves chunk and, like youknow, grabs his hand and then
pushes him out from underneathand then the rock comes down and
(21:32):
kills sloth.
Don't know, you don't know atthe moment.
Oh, okay the chunk think he'sdead, that yeah, he.
Well, he's concerned, okay,he's concerned, he's like it's
gonna crush you, and that's allwe know.
So the kids get out onto thebeach there's some patrol out
there, and so they're thenreunited with all of their
families.
Just a moment later, so itseems a little bit later, all
(21:58):
four Fratellis, including Sloth,are coming up the beach, and so
the police are trying to arrestall four of them, and all the
goonies get in front of slothsaying like no, no, no, he's,
he's not one of them, he's withus.
And chunk tells sloth, you'regonna live with me now, I'm
gonna take care of you, whichseems like a pretty big promise
(22:18):
to run by his parents.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, so just since he doesn't have a home, isn't
his house being foreclosed on?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Meanwhile there is a Spanish speaking helper who
Mikey and Brandon's mother hadhired to help help them to with
packing, and so she'd come withthem.
She doesn't speak much Englishor any, and so she is like just
kind of helping with the clothesthat the kids had taken off
because it was all wet and, likeyou know, organizing it, and
(22:49):
she finds the marble bag thatMikey had had his marbles in it.
He took the marbles out and putjewels in, and the Fratellis
missed it when they took all thejewelry off of them.
So while Mikey and Brandon'sdad is in the middle of signing
the document about theforeclosure that will allow it,
(23:10):
she starts trying to say don'tsign, don't sign, and a mouth
has to translate and soeverything's saved.
And then at the last moment,because everyone's asking where
did you get these jewels, wheredid you get this treasure?
And they're trying to explainand no one believes them because
Chunk is the one talking and hehas a habit of lying when the
(23:33):
Inferno is somehow released fromits cavern.
When the Fratellis had goneinto the treasure room, they
took the treasure off of thesuspended plates, which was the
last booby trap, and it causedthe ceiling to collapse or
something of the cavern, and soit freed the boat to sail off by
(23:56):
itself.
It comes out into the sound orsomething, and then cue Cyndi
Lauper and the movie is over.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Huh, okay, okay, uh-huh, and then cue cindy
lopper and the movie is over.
Huh, okay, okay, I'm.
I'm realizing there's a lot oflike derivative, like things
that are derivative of it, thatI didn't realize because I had
lost the plot in my memory, butlike little movies and little
things that I'm seeing and whatyou've described were actually
(24:25):
sort of derivative of this, andprobably it's in a line that
there are others before it aswell that I'm not aware of.
But yeah, okay, I.
So where do you want to startwith the analysis?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So let's talk about Chunk, because I remember
feeling a little weird abouteven as a six-year-old.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
He's the fat kid.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, who has a name, but they call him chunk?
Yeah, his name is lawrence, buteveryone calls him chunk, and I
remember that bothering me as akid.
Yeah, um, the other so, andeveryone is really pretty cruel
to him, which I think issomewhat period typical.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, like time capsule.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Mm-hmm.
But, what strikes me even moreis how much the script relies on
it so constantly.
Chunk is talking about food.
He is distracted by food.
He like smells something andgoes like oh, I think that's.
And so discovers things.
(25:31):
Because of that, he is clumsyand constantly dropping things.
The way that he's dressed he'swearing plaid pants and a
flowered shirt, and so, like theentire point of his character
is that ha ha, fat kid.
Funny.
Including when we first meethim.
(25:54):
There is a Rube Goldberg machinethat opens the gate to Mikey
and Brandon's house.
And he's at the gate, going letme in, let me in.
Mouth is already there.
Like it's not clear how Mouthgot in, because the gate has
this Rube Goldberg machine.
He's like going, let me in, letme in, Mouth is already there.
Look, it's not clear how Mouthgot in, because the gate has
this Rube Goldberg machine.
He's like hey, let me in, letme in, Come on.
And Mouth says to him like onlyif you do the truffle shuffle.
(26:14):
And Chunk is like no, no, no,I'm not going to do that.
He's like then you're notcoming in.
So he, you're not coming in.
So he's like all right, fine.
And he jumps up on like a stumpor something like that, and he
(26:35):
pulls up his shirt and he doesthis like dance, so that you can
see his, his stomach likejiggling and it's gross.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's gross, yucky, and that was actually ad libbed
to like a 10 year old or 11.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah it was, um, it was ad libbed by jeff cohen.
So like they they knew, I think, that it was written that, um,
um, cory feldman's mouth wasgonna say do the truffle shuffle
, and then it was gonna be up tojeff cohen to figure out what
that was so it was internalizedfat phobia that he made his
(27:02):
stomach bounce.
Yeah um, so, and it's just like.
This movie is over the top inevery direction right so like
camp, it's camp, it's all camp.
So everything is, is, is, uh iscranked up to 11 yeah so like
(27:22):
it's on.
It's understandable that the fatphobia as punchline yeah to him
is a fat joke, but it's hard towatch.
Particularly so.
(27:48):
Jeff Cohen is no longer anactor, he is now an
entertainment lawyer and he isum very fit and uh.
This film was um directed byrichard donner, who was
apparently like sad at seeinglike the, the truffle shuffle
(28:13):
that cohen made up, um and likekind of took this kid under his
wing, which is kind of lovely,except that he paid for gym
membership for him, so that bythe time Cohen was in high
school, he was like likewrestling and and and you know,
(28:34):
like.
What this says to me is, for onething, one thing I have seen it
on multiple occasions wherethere's a kid who is a little
chubby, who grows up to besvelte, because that's how kids
grow, we have created thisentire mythos about like fat is
(29:02):
as fat does about children,which is not okay about adults
either, but is particularlyweird and short sighted and like
ugly about children.
And this is like just becauseyou so often will see, like, as
I tell my kids, like you know,kids grow out, then up.
(29:24):
You know like that's just,that's just how our bodies work,
and so you know, like the factthat it is a surprise that Jeff
Cohen, if you see pictures ofhim now you're like damn, when
he was actually an adorable kid.
I mean, he really was adorable.
(29:45):
It's like so gross.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think the thing that like bothers me about
stories like this are not thatthe gym membership was purchased
Like whatever Healthy choicesare good, fitness is good.
I am a regular gym goer but Ifeel like it's not actually
about making healthy choices,it's about being thin and those
(30:16):
two things are not the same andI feel like that's where we miss
.
Like that's where we reallymiss as a society is that we
have equated thinness withhealth and with merit and with
morality, and that is just afalse equivalency and that's
(30:38):
where it really bothers me.
So these stories about like sohe took this kid under his wing,
it's great because clearly thekid had some clearly cohen had
some internalized fat phobiathat he did that truffle shuffle
, the way that he did it, youknow, in in ad lib.
But rather than like hey, let'slike treat your body with
(30:59):
dignity and respect, it's likelet's make you thin so it's
worthy of treating it with.
Yeah dignity.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Well, and like, just considering the script as
written, there's no, there wasno chance of cohen treating his
body as it appeared in 1985.
Um, now, and here's, here'swhere, like this, this movie is
really interesting and why Ithink so many people love it and
(31:26):
why it has endured is well, forone thing, this is basically
all kids, like the, the entirecast for for the majority of the
hour and 40, no, like 50 minutemovie, it's nearly two hours,
his kids, and they're all reallygood actors, with the exception
(31:49):
of Cohen, who stopped actingbecause, like parts dried up,
similar to Kwan, and decided youknow, I don't want to wait like
, I want to do something else,I'm going to go in a different
direction in my life, um, butthe rest of them all remained in
acting and so, like some ofthis is like you get a lot more
(32:09):
than you would from a lot ofkids movies that are helmed by
kids, and so one of those islike Chunk is lovable.
He's like this very sweet,lovable kid, even with the ugly
fat jokes in there.
(32:30):
But the way that he responds toSloth is just delightful and
adorable and so welcoming.
Just delightful and adorableand so welcoming when the
Fratellis are trying to find outwhere his friends are.
He's telling them the truth andthey don't believe him and
they're threatening him.
They're like tell us.
(32:51):
And he's like, okay, okay, I'lltalk.
And he starts confessing to allthe terrible things he's done
in his life and there'ssomething so just genuine and
sweet about it and about likehow he, how he, he brings it out
, so like some of this is justlike Cohen's a very good actor
(33:11):
and and there's some sweetnesswritten into it and then the
just the actor bringing to thatcharacter was just lovely as
well.
But it's it's hard to watchjust because it never ends Like
the food jokes are from thebeginning to the very end.
There is never a point wherethere's not a food joke.
(33:31):
If Chunk is on screen, there'sgoing to be a food joke within
the next, you know, 90 secondsand that's it's really
unpleasant.
And the way that he first isable to bond with Sloth is over
(33:55):
food and that is in part becauseit's clear the fratellis
withhold food from sloth, yeah,and so like once sloth gets them
both out, like the first thinguh he does is he finds the ice
cream and is like get it.
Like while chunk is trying toto make a phone call to the
police.
Sloth is getting ice cream andspoons for them both.
(34:17):
And what I appreciate about this, that relationship, is that you
do see this like absoluteacceptance and not just chunk of
sloth, sloth of chunk.
Because I feel like this film isaccurate in the way that kids
really do talk to each other, inthat they're like constantly
(34:40):
talking over each other andthey're insulting each other and
, like you know, playing jokesand, and you know they're,
they're being little shitsdepending on the friend group.
That's how kids act and so,particularly because chunk is so
often the so often the butt ofeveryone's joke, the fact that
(35:00):
Sloth is so delighted with Chunkand accepts him as he is makes
it understandable that they havethis lovely bond, his friends.
Uh, the reason why chunk gotleft behind is, uh, he smelled
(35:22):
ice cream and found a freezer Idon't know how you smell ice
cream found a freezer and insidewas a dead body that fell out
and they all started freakingout.
The Fratellis came back.
They heard them come back andthey're like, oh my God, we've
got to get the body back in thefreezer.
And chunk got stuck in thefreezer with the body started
freaking out, the fratellis cameback.
They heard them come back andthey're like, oh my god, we got
to get the body back in thefreezer and chunk got stuck in
(35:43):
the freezer with the body and solike that's how much they care
about traumatizing.
Yeah, that's the level I'm like.
The friends do care about him,they do, but they don't realize
he's missing until they're theyhave gone down into the tunnel.
And then when he breaks out andthey, they're like, okay, you
(36:07):
gotta, you gotta get out, go outthrough the window and go get
the police.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So so um, can I ask?
I'm curious about the um, the,um, like the, the casual racism,
like everything's over the top,it's all camping so campy.
So we've got over the top campyfat phobia, where chunk is just
one fat joke.
Is data one long chinese joke?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
yeah, so he's got kind of an over the top accent.
He has all of these inventionsthat kind of don't work very
well.
I mean, they do and they, they,they will, will rescue him.
But it's like this sense oflike he's he's too smart for his
(36:58):
own good, he's so smart that hedoes stupid things kind of
thing.
And so and I, I, I kind ofremember, I don't know like
there there were a couple of thethe.
So there's one um that he has atthe very end, when they're
they're they're going to fightwith the Fratellis, he's like,
(37:19):
no, no, I got something for this.
And he has, at the very end,when they're they're they're
going to fight with theFratellis, he's like no, no, I
got something for this.
And he has, um, it's a boxingglove on like a spring that he
like has sends out and it's uh,misaligned, so it goes up and
does like an uppercut and hitshim.
So it's just, it's camp, youknow, and it it's it's very much
(37:41):
like inspector gadget typething.
And if we didn't have like, ifyou weren't the only non-white
kid right, right.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
It's like I heard this I think it was actually a
tiktoker an asian tiktoker whowas talking about how he wished
that there were more characterswho were Asian for no reason,
where their Asian-ness didn'tactually rely on the plot,
because there's so many whitepeople who are white for no
reason.
And that's kind of what you'resaying, like Chunk is fat for a
reason, it's part of the plot,it's required by the plot.
(38:15):
Data is Chinese for a reason,like it's part of the plot.
Data is Chinese for a reason,like it's part of the plot, or
at least the stereotypes aboutAsian people is is part of the
plot for this.
So it's not just like it's,it's not like the Mac and me
that you named where the kid wasa wheelchair user and it wasn't
a thing, it wasn't a part ofthe plot.
(38:35):
He was a wheelchair user for noreason like that, and I think
that's that's kind of what I washearing about chunk and was
wondering about about data, andyou've confirmed that that that
is the case.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
yeah, yeah and like everyone has a, a characteristic
that that's like it'severyone's one note and that's
that's.
This is not a film that you goin looking for depth or nuance.
Nuance, yeah, um.
So you know the fact thatbrandon is always exercising,
that is important for the plotbecause, like that's how they're
(39:10):
able to subdue him.
The fact that mouth is like amotor mouth and good with
languages, that means means he'sable to read the math that's in
Spanish and, you know, isconstantly talking, gets in
trouble.
And I, the thing that I rememberthinking was hilarious as a
little kid is when they'retaking the Fratellis, are taking
(39:33):
all the treasure off of thekids.
Mama Fratelli says, says tomouth, like aren't you the one
they call mouth?
He's like, he's like and she'slike you're being very, very
quiet, like what have you got inthere?
And it's because he's put sometreasure in his mouth in the
hopes that they won't find it.
And so she like pulls out astrand of pearls and it keeps
(39:55):
coming and coming and coming.
And then she's like is thateverything he's like?
And she's like nope, open upand like more stuff.
And I remember finding thathilarious as a small child
because he was the mouth, uh,but you know, they, they have,
they have these names, um.
(40:16):
So, and even even the girls weget, um, andy, who is just a
pretty plot device, mm-hmm Um,and I don't know if you remember
she ends up kissing Mikey,thinking he's Brandon.
Mm-hmm Um, I actually like Iremembered that and I remember
being like really uncomfortablewith it as a kid and it actually
(40:40):
, the way that it comes about,is a lot less weird than I
remembered.
So we see Andy and Stephanietalking and Stephanie's like
this is not the time or theplace, because Andy has really
been wanting to kiss Brandon andand he's like I know, I'm going
to do it.
And so she, she calls likeBrandon, can you come over here
(41:01):
please?
And Brandon is in the middle ofsomething and he's like Mikey,
can you go see what she needs?
And so she has her eyes closed.
She hears him coming and shegrabs him and kisses him and so,
like I had remembered it beinga little bit more like this is
(41:21):
one of those.
Nobody did anythingspecifically wrong, because
Brandon and Andy had almostkissed multiple times prior to
that.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, I guess I mean the lessons about consent, even
from a woman.
You know the female identifiedperson to the male identified
person like consent stillmatters.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It does, it, does it's, and I like, I totally like
.
Yes, it's still not great, butit's a lot better than I
remember, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, that's fair, but it's a lot better than I
remembered it.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, that's fair.
And so Stephanie sees that it'sMikey and she thinks it's
hilarious.
And so, and like Mikey, likeStephanie like helps him go
elsewhere.
And then Andy's like what, itwas beautiful.
She doesn't know, andy has noidea until later, when she
(42:24):
kisses brandon.
She's like what happened toyour braces?
Because mikey has braces andbrandon doesn't.
Oh boy, so and then like they,they realize what?
And then she later like says toMikey, if you keep kissing
girls like that, you're going tobe okay, or so I don't know,
(42:46):
something along those lines.
It's weird, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Oh, that's lucky yeah .
It's not okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, well, it's not okay, it's, it's so weird and
it's it's that.
That actually is the part thatI like, that now I'm seeing it
as a kid that just kind of wentby me.
Um, it was the actual kiss thatI had a problem with.
This time around seeing it, I'mjust like, no, that's the
(43:17):
problem where it's like, youknow, sexualizing a boy and
making it as if that's the end,all be all, and it's sexualizing
a child.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It's also there's a degree of like, I don't know,
like the consent doesn't matterif it was good, which is I mean
that we see that a lot in the80s.
If you fail to gain consent butthen the person enjoys it, it
then you're all clear.
I don't know there's a lotthat's wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
And the sense that as long as you're good at sexual
stuff, you can be anything elseyou want to be, or it doesn't
matter Nothing else, matterswhich which they would never say
, even in 85, to a girl.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
right that there's the gendered component of it as
well, because a girl who's goodat sex is a whore or a slut, but
a boy who's good at sex can dowhatever the hell he wants.
Yeah, there's so much messed upabout this.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It's so gross, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Okay, so Well, we've been talking for a long minute.
I have a feeling there's likeat least one more big point that
you want to get to, so let'shear it.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I do want to talk a little bit about class yeah
because that is really so.
There is a point where, whenthey can get up through the
wishing well and mikey it mightbe, it's that point.
(45:04):
Or another point where mikeysays goonies never say die and
andy says I'm not a gooniebecause she doesn't live um at
it's not goon point, the goondocs, goon docs, she doesn't
live at the goon docs, yeah, andshe is sort of dating t, sort
(45:24):
of not dating Troy.
It's one of those where, likeTroy's the bully, yes, troy's
the bully.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So when we first see her, Andy, who we were talking
about before, who wants to kissBrand?
Yes, is he dating him?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Oh, she really is a prize to kiss brand yes dating
him, so not exactly it's moreprize, it's more that um like
it's it's not clear that she'sdating him.
She, like brandon, sayssomething along the lines of
like I have a date with andy onon friday, and so it's clear
that brandon and andy like eachother and that that is that is
her interest.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
But t Troy is also interested in her, but Troy
likes her too.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, we see her getting a ride from him in his
red new convertible car and he'smoving the mirror so he can
look down her shirt and sheknows it.
And she tells him like if youmove it again I don't remember
exactly what she does, but shethreatens him, she's like she,
she, she's not having it soshe's not, she's they.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
They give the script, gives her enough agency that
she's not just like being handedfrom one man to the other, it
sounds like.
And the fact that we see thathe, that the bad guy, the
villain, has interest in her,but we, but she actually ends up
with the poor kid, makes hervery much a prize.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
So something that I think is interesting to talk
about, class Is.
So when we meet Troy, he'sdriving this like brand new
convertible, he's 16.
When the kids run away fromBrandon, like when they trap him
, run away, mouth lets out theair on the tires of Brandon's
(47:18):
bike and Mikey says to him likedon't do that.
He had to mow like 347 lawns toafford that bike.
And Mikey says to him likedon't do that.
He had to mow like 347 lawns toafford that bike.
And so there's this like thisclear distinction.
You know, like that's.
And he says his favorite thingit's his prized possession.
So like the clear classdistinction between Troy and
Brandon there.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
I mean plus the story arc of the homes being
foreclosed on.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yes, but there's a really interesting moment when
they are beneath the wishingwell and it is Troy and two of
his rich friends who arestanding around the wishing well
and I read a commentary sayingeven though Andy doesn't
consider herself a goonie, sheis going to be the first one
(48:07):
they lift up, and it's partiallybecause Troy sees that she's
down there and so he wants tohelp her.
And at first, data's like I'mthe smallest, I should go up
first.
And Brandon, who is the oldestone there, is like you know what
?
No, I want to make the like.
I think Andy should go up first.
And you know what?
No, I want to make the like.
I think Andy should go up first, and you know, and then we'll,
(48:30):
we'll go up one at a time.
And so this commenter,commentator um, pointed out that
this is like Troy is raisingAndy up to his level through
marriage in the way that thatcan happen.
And so, even though Andydoesn't live in the Goondocks
and she is not the same level asthose who are going to lose
(48:50):
their homes, she's definitelynot wealthy like Troy's family
is, and so she has more incommon with the Goonies than she
does with Troy and his familyand friends, and so I thought
that that was really interesting.
And then the fact that she,mikey, convinces her like, hey,
we could create our own futureby continuing and finding
(49:14):
Willie's gold and and, you know,saving our homes and all of
that.
So there's like an interestingstory in there or interesting
metaphor in there about likekind of like american bootstraps
and and can do and that sort ofthing where it's like, you know
(49:35):
this, the, the lower incomekids band together to get
something, winning out againstboth the criminals and the like
wealthy.
And how Andy chooses not to gobe raised up by Troy and in fact
(50:00):
they what they do, they don'ttell him they're not coming up.
She has been wearing Troy'sLetterman sweater, so she puts
that on the bucket and when hepulls the bucket up it's just
his sweater.
So it's very much a repudiationof Troy and so that I think is
also really interesting aboutthis class.
Solidarity, solidarity.
(50:21):
It's fascinating I think.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I think there's something also, if we're talking
about the metaphors of it.
There's something reallyinteresting that you just put
three strata for well, four, atleast three, um, with sort of
the middle class bandingtogether and the upper class and
then sort of criminal criminals.
And it's interesting to me toothe way you described the plot.
You had mikey, I think, talk tothe deceased, one-eyed willie
(50:51):
and kind of like have a momentof solidarity with the dead
pirate who was a criminal, atleast in some way of
understanding right, but, um,but sort of leaving willie, what
was willie's on those plates,whatever they were, was actually
(51:11):
like showed a level ofunderstanding that it it
corroborated mikey's assertionthat they had things in common,
because that's what kept theboat from doing what it did in
the end, that the Fratellisdidn't do.
Right, they were too greedy.
Right, the kids were greedy,but it was for the right reasons
(51:34):
, like some of that kind ofmoralizing that happened.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, yeah, and the Fratellis were greedy just for
greed's sake, right.
And like there's reallyinteresting, like I know I don't
have to tell you, but likebeing around you for as long as
I have, like I'm seeing reallyinteresting, like lessons about
money in particular andmoralizing around money in sort
(51:58):
of the class strata, by makingthe rich guys the bad guys, but
also in sort of the attitudetowards those doubloons between
these kids, the goonies and thefratellis well, and it's.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
It's interesting because it's it's making it
clear that the problem with thefratellis is the same as the
problem with troy's father andthe people who want to foreclose
on the, on the houses is thatthey want more than what's
theirs.
They are greedy to the point oflike rapaciousness, whereas
(52:38):
greed's fine as, as long as youlike.
There there's a border to itsomewhere.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Or, like I said, for the right reasons I'm putting
quotes around that.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, Well, there's a point where Mikey apologizes to
his dad.
He says there's, you know, weleft the loot to save our lives.
And his dad says you know, Ihave you and your brother, I'm
the richest man in Astoria.
And Troy's says you know I haveyou and your brother, I'm the
richest man in Astoria.
And Troy's father says no, I'mactually the richest man in
Astoria and you need to signthis.
So oh, yeah, it's very American.
(53:17):
Like this is not a film thatcould be made by British.
Yeah, it's just an odd, oddmovie that really captures,
especially like the 1980s.
Greed is good, it's justnowhere to stop.
(53:41):
The solidarity with Willie isanother thing that I remembered.
Willie was not just a pirate,he was a murderer.
Not that those are mutuallyexclusive Of his own crew, but
of his own crew, yeah, so likehaving solidarity with that guy
(54:06):
doesn't seem particularly nice.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah, and his greed, I mean in murdering his own crew
so that they couldn't escapewith it.
But he knew he couldn't escapewith it either, hence he booby
trapped the cavern, like thatfeels like the wrong kind of
greed, y'all.
Yeah, yeah, wow, all right.
Well, I'm actually going to askone more question before I try
(54:30):
and wrap up.
Why do people love it so much?
Why is this movie so beloved?
Speaker 1 (54:36):
So as I said, the, the, the acting choices of these
children are amazing.
Like, even though everyone islike a stick figure of a
character, the kids playing themreally give them depth and
(54:59):
nuance.
So I think there is something tothat.
Like you, you really believethat these are, these are, these
people are friends, like youbelieve that these are real
people, even though they arevery much not real people
because of like the over thetopness of so much of of how
they respond to each other.
So I think that's that's partof it.
Another part of it is this isfeels like a movie that
(55:24):
recognizes when kids knowthey're being talked down to, so
like it's a ridiculous movieand there are things that you
know are put in there to makethe movie work that aren't
realistic.
But the things that kids careabout are realistic.
(55:47):
Like the kids say shit to eachother all the time.
They actually curse.
It's PG or maybe PG-13.
I don't know, but it doesn'thave the F word or anything like
that.
But they talk about the thingsthe kids actually talk to each
other about.
They talk over each other, theyget mad at each other, they
yell at each other, they sayterrible things to each other.
(56:09):
So like that is something thatI feel like a lot of movie
makers would not do, becauselike, oh, we don't want to put
that in a kid's movie, and kidsknow that, whereas like this
feels like when you're watchingit, you're like, yeah, this is
how kids are, like this, this is, this is like a true group of
friends, this is the the kind ofcruelty that they would have
(56:32):
for each other, even though theyreally do care about each other
.
Um, and so I think that,combined with the adventure
aspect of it, which really iscool the piano is the one that I
remember as being like that isso cool, but like the booby
traps and like the kids beingable to outsmart adults who have
(56:52):
tried, because there are otheradults who have tried to get
there and have failed, and theyoutsmart the Fratellis, and like
that is also really compelling.
And then one other thing that II think people really appreciate
about this movie is, um,actually sloth, and so I saw I
(57:20):
was doing a little bit ofresearch I saw someone who had
never seen it watched it for thefirst time sometime in like the
last five or 10 years, and theylike they didn't get it and
they're like, why is Sloth inthis movie?
I don't understand what thatcharacter is there for and I was
feeling like, well, of courseSloth is in the movie, like
(57:40):
that's kind of what the movie isabout.
Sloth is in the movie, likethat's kind of what the movie is
about is like the importance ofnot judging each other and
being kind to a kind, even whenyou're frightened.
Because Mikey is the first tosee Sloth and is terrified but
he sees that, um, jake has leftSloth's food where he can't
(58:00):
reach it and so he kind of kicksit closer and sloth roars and
he gets frightened and runs away.
So even when he's terrifiedhe's trying to be kind.
Wish he could be that kind tohis friends.
But but the the that's dynamicof it's kind of like the casual
(58:23):
cruelty that the Fratellis havefor their own and we see there's
a lot of squabbling betweenFrancis and Jake, the other two
brothers, and constantlybickering and arguing with their
mother and stuff like thatwhich is mostly played for
laughs.
But they are unutterably cruelto Sloth.
And then you see, among Troyand his father you don't see any
(58:50):
kind of cruelty like that, butyou do see Troy talking about
Andy with some friends in a verydegrading, casually cruel way.
They're like, have you gottenwith Andy yet?
And, and, uh, he's like, um, Ihaven't yet, but the operative
word is yet, and you know it's,it's gross.
(59:13):
And so the Goonies like thedifference we see with them, and
especially when we see at theend, when they're, they're
reunited with their parents, um,is this like undercurrent of
acceptance and love and, youknow, seeing each other, even
though it's a film that relieson stereotypes.
(59:36):
So they're, they're like, youget this and in part because of
the like, just incredible skillof the of the child actors, many
, like pretty much all, of whomgrew up to be a-list celebrities
.
I'm not gonna say all of whom,but they all grew up to to to
show that this was not a fluke.
(59:57):
These are, these are not childactors, these are actors who
happen to be children, um, butthere's also there's this
undercurrent of like sweetnessthat I think people really,
really appreciated.
And if you encountered it forthe first time as a kid in the
80s, when the fat phobia and thecasual racism didn't really
(01:00:22):
like connect as as as a problem,like cause, that's what was in
every movie we saw and it'sgenuinely funny.
And then you, you get thisgenuine sense of like these are
real kids.
These are not, you know,scripted lines, cause they're.
They're shouting over eachother, they're, you know, they
feel like they're doing all ofthese things is is really.
(01:00:46):
It's kind of remarkable, and sothere's there.
There's very good reason whypeople like it.
So there's very good reason whyit's a lot of people's favorite
movie, and I think that it's.
It's definitely still worthwatching.
It's just one of those.
As you watch, be cognizant ofthe fact that you're going to
get a lot of jokes that justdon't hit anymore because they
(01:01:08):
feel so cruel, but the heartunderneath of it is a very
tender and sweet one.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
All right, can I do my?
Thing?
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, do your thing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, can I do my thing?
Yeah, do your thing.
Yeah, can I do my thing?
Yeah, do your thing.
All right, I'll do my best, so Ithink I'm actually going to
popcorn around a little bit.
So you started your analysis bytalking about the fat phobia in
the character of chunk and younoted Lawrence, the character of
(01:01:47):
Lawrence, who people call chunk, and you noted that all of
these characters are one notecharacters, and so it's like
it's part and parcel, like itfits that there's one note,
there is one joke with thischaracter, because everything is
dialed up to 11 and a lot of itis based on stereotypes.
And also it hurts to see thecasual fat phobia, the way in
(01:02:13):
which, if you said I heard yousay, if Chunk is on screen,
there will be a food joke withinthe next 90 seconds that it's
just one long fat joke at thisperson's expense, which, which
actually like played out even inthe real life of this actor,
(01:02:35):
cohen jeff cohen, right, jeff,who's um the one of the adults
associated with the film, sortof so-called took him under his
wing and, to do so, got him agym membership and now he's all
svelte and fit as anentertainment lawyer, which, I
pointed out, is like not badright, like fitness is a good
(01:03:00):
thing.
And also the problem is when wewe put equivalencies around, um
merit, merit and morality, um,and deservingness, right, like.
I really wish that JeffreyCohen had gotten the lesson that
his body was worthy of dignityand care, regardless of how it
(01:03:22):
was shaped.
And also I'm glad he's makinghealthier choices like, or
healthy choices he could havemade.
I don't know if he was makinghealthy choices or not because
he was a kid and, as you pointedout, a lot of times kids like
have some extra, um, extra sizeout before they go up.
(01:03:43):
We I asked if this a similar, um, kind of sort of stereotyping
and one note ness was true withthe character of data, um, the
chinese character, and you notedthat it was he's sort of an
inspector gadget character who'slike too smart for his own good
and ends up kind of flubbing itwith his many, his many
(01:04:05):
inventions, and that is too badand also expected, let me see.
So we talked a bit about oh, weactually spent a good amount of
time talking about the momentwhen Andy accidentally kisses
(01:04:27):
Mikey, mikey, mm-hmm, when sheintends to kiss Brandon, and
sort of the aftermath of that,like in the moment it's just
sort of played for laughs.
And then afterwards Andy saysto him once she realizes that
she kissed him by accident.
You keep kissing like that kidand you're going to be okay.
(01:04:48):
And we talked about the factthat this is really unpleasant
on multiple levels, like notonly is it a sexualization of a
(01:05:11):
child, and sort of theimplication that lack of consent
is somehow made okay if theperson enjoys it.
And the genders were reversedin terms of who was older and
who was younger.
That never would have happened,even in the 80s, because girls
who are good at sex are slutsand boys who are good at sex can
have whatever they want.
With that same character of Andy, you brought in some
(01:05:34):
interesting sort of visualmetaphors around class and
gender, in the ways in whichAndy, though she isn't as kind
of low on the social hierarchyas the Goonies, she's not as
high as Troy and the rich kids,and there's a literal
opportunity for her to be liftedup by those rich people which
(01:05:58):
she chooses instead to repudiatethem and return the guy's
letterman jacket.
And there's a metaphor in therearound sort of the matrimony
and the ways in which marriagecan change a person's status.
(01:06:19):
But what do they give up in sodoing status, but what do they
give up in so doing?
We spent a long time talkingtoo about class and some of the
messages around class and themessages around money and greed.
And there's some kind oftwo-sided like both sides of the
coin messages happening at thesame time where we're seeing
(01:06:42):
like greed's all right when theGoonies do it because it's like
for the right reasons, orbecause messages happening at
the same time where we're we'reseeing like greets, all right
when the Goonies do it becauseit's like for the right reasons
or because they they know whento stop, you know, or because
they leave Willie, what wasWillie's.
And it's bad when the Fratellisdo it because they just don't
know when to stop, it'srapacious.
And it's bad when the Troys ofthe world and the rich folks in
(01:07:04):
the town do it because, again,it's rapacious and they don't
know when to stop and they alsolose sight of what really
matters.
I'm putting quotes around thatwhich we get explicitly at the
end of the movie, when BrandonMikey's dad says I have you and
your brother, I'm the richestman in the town.
(01:07:26):
And Troy's dad's like no, I amand I'm going to take your house
from you.
Um, let me see, I feel likethere was.
Oh.
And then finally, I asked youwhy this movie is so beloved,
and you talked about a couple ofthings.
One, the just acting chops ofthese kids, who I love the way
you put this they weren't childactors, they were actors who
(01:07:47):
happened to be children and gavethese flat characters quite a
bit of nuance interact with oneanother in ways that felt
realistic, that kids actually do, not the way grownups write
kids, but the way kids actuallyact, which, for those of us who
(01:08:07):
maybe watched it as kids in the80s and 90s in repeat, just felt
really validating and real andresonated in important ways.
You also really pointed to theways in which this film drives a
message of inclusion and themessage of not judging and sort
of loving folks and being kind,even when we're scared, with the
(01:08:31):
person of sloth, the, who hasboth physical deformities and
also, um, intellectualdisabilities, it seems, but who
and who is the children arescared of when they first meet
him, but who ends up being theirliteral salvation at one point,
um, and and the way that youput it just at the end, that I
(01:08:54):
thought was really, um, lovelyis that, though, there are
things that have not aged well,the sort of time capsule jokes,
um, that were of the 80s thathave not aged well.
The heart which is underneaththis film like it, the actual
kind of like, and the moral ofthe story is remains really sort
of sweet.
So that's what I remember for asynthesis.
(01:09:23):
What did I forget?
Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Um, so one thing I want to just kind of lift up is
uh, cause when we first startedtalking you, you were saying I
was saying like yeah, there'scasual racism, there's fat
phobia, and you're like, oh, andableism, like actually no, this
film does a really decent jobof making it clear that Sloth is
(01:09:49):
one of the Goonies.
He is one of them even thoughhe is a Fratelli by birth and is
not a child and visually kindof scary, but he is an equal and
important part of the team andso that that was something that,
(01:10:09):
uh, I like I remember likingthat storyline as a kid, Um, but
it was lovely to see again,just to to to recognize like, oh
, wow, there, that that is areally important lesson of of
inclusion, that I of inclusionthat I don't know how often we
get in modern films for kidssome of the like.
Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Now we see blatant like jokes that went over their
heads, like the name of thepirate being one-eyed willie.
So yeah, the dick jokes, thedick jokes baked in that we
missed when we were kids.
Okay, well, this was fun.
Thank you for taking this one.
I'm sure that this one will beimportant for our fellow Gen
Xers, and next week is me, andI'm gonna bring another one that
(01:11:13):
reminds me of our cousin Chris,which is Richard Pryor's the
Toy.
Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
That is going to be an interesting one to revisit.
Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Yeah, yeah, good luck with that.
This kind of feels like if wedecide to do Soul man at some
point, it's like, oh boy, do wewant to do soul man at some
point?
It's like, oh boy, do we wantto touch that?
Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Not it?
Not it?
All right, I'll see you then.
See you then.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over to guy girlsmediacom slash, sign up and
share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy.
But don't wait, there's alimited quantity.
(01:12:07):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what'sin your head?
It never ends Like the food jokes are from the
beginning to the very end.
There is never a point wherethere's not a food joke.
If Chunk is on screen, there'sgoing to be a food joke within
the next you know, 90 seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
What others might deem stupid shit.
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
We're sisters, tracyacy andemily, collectively known as the
guy girls.
Every week, we take turnsre-watching, researching and
reconsidering beloved media andsharing what we learn.
Come over, think with us and ifyou get value from the show,
(00:39):
please consider supporting us.
You can become a patron onPatreon or send us a one-time
tip through Ko-fi.
Both links are in the shownotes and thanks.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will bediscussing the 1985 film the
(01:10):
Goonies with my sister, tracyGuy-Decker, and with you, let's
dive in.
So, trace, I associate thisfilm with you and our cousin,
chris, but it's one that, like,I remember really liking.
I remember moments of it, andso when I saw it again as an
adult for the first time, likewhen I was in college, I
remember being really shocked bysome of the rather adult humor
(01:33):
in it.
Tell me what you recall aboutthis film.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I don't remember much, honestly, like I
think I.
I know that I saw it with youand Chris, I know that I saw it
with you and Chris when we werekids, like kid kids, and I know
there's like an undergroundportion and there's the guy who
has physical challenges and Iguess emotional and mental as
(02:00):
well, who says, hey, you guyslike, uh, the electric company
and, um, it's a bunch of kidsand it's an adventure and that's
all I got.
And I feel a little bit of, um,generational shame, uh, that I
would stand up and say I somehowrepresent gen x and not know
(02:23):
the basic plot of the goonies.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Like.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, gen X, I feel like I'm
letting you down, so I'm reallyglad that you're here to set me
rights.
Why are we talking about this,em?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So this is in a lot of ways like the like late Gen X
kid movie and it feels a lotlike what things like Stranger
(02:56):
Things are trying to capture now.
And there is a lot that peopleare nostalgic about about this
film and in some ways for goodreason but there's a lot that
makes this a very mid-80s timecapsule that, um, doesn't look
great with, uh, modern eyes.
(03:18):
This is one where, uh, as Iremember seeing it as a kid,
remember really liking it, therewere moments that stuck in my
head that I could just seeeasily.
But then when I was I think Iwas a junior or senior in
college someone did the Gooniesoutdoors and so we all went and
(03:46):
saw it and it was the first timeI'd seen it in probably 10
years and I had not known,realized, remembered that the
pirate whose treasure they areafter is named One-Eyed Willie,
and I was like holy cow.
I saw this as a tiny littlebaby and I had no idea.
(04:10):
So that kind of stuff I findreally interesting to like
revisit things.
That and because the moviedoesn't change, I do Right, the
movie doesn't change, I do Right.
And there there's media that Ihave so consistently watched
(04:31):
throughout my life that I Idon't really have the chance to
change, if you know what I mean.
This is one I definitely didbecause like I saw it I don't
know I'd say a lot, but it feltlike like I knew it reasonably
well as a elementary school kidDidn't see it again until I was
like 20 or 21.
And a lot had changed in thattime.
(04:52):
And then I think this is thefirst time I've seen it since
then, so like another 25 yearsin between, and so my viewpoint
on this film has changed so much.
And it's some of this has to dowith cultural change.
Some of this has to do with,you know, my personalogyny, that
is, ableism, because of thecharacter who has the Honestly
(05:39):
that's one thing it does well isit does seem in a lot of ways
to be a story of inclusion.
Okay, so there there are.
There's some aspects of it thatI think aren't necessarily
great.
Um, but uh, but that actually,I think, um it, it.
It's a better representative ofthat than what you see a lot of
(06:04):
, and in fact, the 80s, oddlysometimes, were really good
about inclusion.
Do you remember the movie Macand Me?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Big.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, it's terrible.
I remember seeing it, but it'slike an ET ripoff.
Oh, it is, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I was thinking that it was like the Navigator, but
that's a different one that's adifferent one.
There is space flight of somekind in Mac and Me.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
There's an alien comes to Earth.
Okay, the main character is awheelchair user and it just is.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
That just is.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And they don't make a big deal about it, nobody makes
a big deal about it, it just is.
So I'm make a big deal about it, nobody makes a big deal about
it, it just is.
So I'm thinking like in someways, the 80s was pretty
progressive for some things butnot for others.
Yeah, yeah, so let me just kindof give you like the bare bones
plot yes, because there's a lotI don't remember at all.
(07:03):
So it takes place in Astoria,oregon.
We start off, we meet theFratelli family.
They are criminals, the MaFratelli and Francis Fratelli,
who is played by Joe Panaglione.
Who, actually?
Who is the guy who plays Cypherin the Matrix?
Oh, actually, who is, um, theguy who plays cypher in the
(07:27):
matrix?
Oh, which, it's one of thoselike six degrees of the goonies
you can play, because there's alot of movie stars who went on
to huge things.
So there's ma francis and theyare breaking jake out of jail,
um, and they go on this likemassive police chase shootout
thing.
(07:47):
We then meet the Goonies.
These are the kids who aregrowing up on the Goondocks of
Astoria, oregon, and theirhouses are being foreclosed on.
And the houses are there.
They have to move out the nextday and the richest people in
Astoria are going to raise thehouses and just build up like a
(08:10):
country club golf course wherethe houses are.
So our main character is Mikey,played by Sean Astin, who is
Samwise Gamgee, so keptexpecting him to go.
Frodo, mr Frodo, his olderbrother, brandon or Brand, is
(08:31):
played by Josh Brolin, who isThanos in the Marvel movies.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Oh, in the Marvels, uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, and then they have several friends.
There's Mouth, played by CoreyFeldman, who is kind of an
obnoxious kid who's also verygood at languages.
There's Data, who is a Chinesekid.
He's played by Kei-Hui Kwan.
I believe it's also known asJonathan K Kwan.
(09:00):
He also was in Indiana Jones asShort Round, and then he was
Waymond in Everything,everywhere, all at Once.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And he stopped acting for a long time.
Like he stopped acting betweenShort Round and.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Waymond, not by choice.
Pretty much yes, and not bychoice because there weren't
roles available for him.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right For adolescent.
Chinese kids.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, or even young adult, because he's a little
older than I am, so he is verymuch a stereotype.
He wears a trench coat and hasall of these gadgets and gizmos
that he's invented that are likeRube Goldbergian type of
(09:47):
inventions.
And then there is Chunk, playedby Jeff Cohen.
His name is Lawrence, buteveryone calls him Chunk because
he is overweight.
So that's the core group of theGoonies.
All of the kids come over toMikey and Bran's house.
They go up into the attic whereMikey and Bran's father is the
(10:10):
curator of the museum, and so hehas a bunch of stuff in the
attic that was from an exhibit.
These were like the rejects forthe exhibit, and there they
find a.
I know that's not how museumcuration works.
I'm talking to someone who's anactual museum professional.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So those of you who are only listening.
I was just giving a veryquizzical look.
I know, Is she my sister?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
This.
These are the there's.
There's a lot of times you'regoing to have to hit the I
believe button.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Oh okay, so for listeners who don't know, I am a
former museum professional andoh, okay, there's.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
There are many times where it's like that's not how
any of this works okay, sothere's artifacts um in in mikey
and brandt's attic, yes, andmostly like pirate.
stuff is what it looks like.
And so they end up finding atreasure map and a doubloon
(11:25):
story to everyone there that hisfather had told him about the
famous pirate One-Eyed Willie,from something like 1637 or
somewhere around there, who wasup against the British, which
actually doesn't really makesense timeline-wise.
It would have been the Spanishin the Pacific Northwest part of
so anyway, he and his crew gotstuck in some sort of cave.
(11:51):
The British were surroundedthem and like caved them in, and
so they ended up they had allthe treasure there with them.
So one-eyed Willie killed allof his companions so that they
couldn't escape with thetreasure, and then he booby
trapped everything and then died.
And so the treasure has beenlost forever.
(12:11):
And Mikey realizes, because hefinds the doubloon separate from
the map, he realizes like wait,I think I know how to find this
.
The map is written in Spanishand it's established that mouth
speaks Spanish fluently.
So the boys find a way to likeget Brand, who has been told to
(12:38):
keep Mikey in the house or elseBrand's going to be in trouble.
They get him, uh, get him, um,immobilized, uh, with one of
those you remember, those uhlike stretchy things, that, uh,
that you'd use for exercising,because they always show brand
exercising.
Sure, uh, they, they, they wrapit around him.
Okay, it's.
(13:18):
Yeah, I believe.
Okay are like wandering around,like looking in this old,
abandoned restaurant, and itturns out that that is the
Fratelli's like base ofoperations.
So they're caught by theFratelli's.
They had seen two people goinginto the restaurant and we later
realized that they were somesort of police officers, fbi,
(13:39):
and they were killed by theFratelli's.
So the four boys get stuck withthe Fratellis and they are
trying to.
They end up escaping.
Mikey ends up seeing there is afourth, fratelli, sloth, who is
the one you were talking about,who has some physical
(14:00):
deformities and apparently hassome kind of cognitive
difficulties as well, who ischained up in the basement in
the the restaurant.
Yeah, so the kids escape andrun out and they, they run into
Brand, who's caught up with them, and then also two girls.
(14:22):
There's Andy, who Brand reallylikes, and Stephanie, her best
friend, and there's a subplotwith the boy that is the son of
the richest man in town.
His name is Troy and he'sreally a piece of crap.
And this is the heyday of the80s.
This is the heyday of the 80s,where bullies were murderous.
(14:46):
What they do is just likethat's sociopathic, that's not
bullying.
So anyway.
So those three, the three16-year-olds, end up joining the
little kids and they, forvarious reasons, they go back
(15:07):
into the restaurant after theFratellis have left, because
Mikey is still looking for theentrance to these caverns.
They end up down in thebasement.
Shenanigans ensue.
They find the entrance to thecavern underneath of a fireplace
.
The Fratellis come back, chunkgets left behind, and so, as
(15:34):
they're heading down into thebasement, he's stuck somewhere.
He gets out and they say to himgo get the police.
We're going down this waybecause it's the only way out.
And so Ch chunk gets to theroad and waves down a car.
It turns out to be theFratellis.
So they take him back and theylock him in.
Well, they ask him where hisfriends are and then they lock
(15:55):
him in with sloth.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So and, as chunk believes, sloth is a danger to
him at this point.
Yes, yes, he's a little scaredof him because I know, like my
recollection is that he becomesone of their allies.
He does, what littlerecollection I have, yeah, but
uh, but at that point they, he,he thinks that sloth is like
some sort of monster yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So while chunk and sloth are in that room together,
all Sloth has is a little TVset and he likes watching TV.
And so there's a point whereSloth kind of roars and Chunk
gets scared.
He's tied to a chair and islike jumping up and down going,
and that makes Sloth laugh.
And so that's the firstindication we have that he's not
(16:42):
a monster.
He's just.
He looks a little scary and istreated very poorly.
The two of them end up bonding.
Chunk has a Baby Ruth candy barwith him that he throws to on
the TV.
There's a cook who's frosting achocolate cake and Sloth says
(17:04):
chocolate, and so Chunk throwshim the oh, do you like
chocolate, I've got some.
There's a cook who's frosting achocolate cake and Sloth says
chocolate, and so Chunk throwshim the oh, do you like
chocolate, I've got some.
And it bounces off of him andthen like falls out of his reach
, and so, even though Sloth hasbeen like sitting in his chains
this entire time, he breaks thechain so he can get the
chocolate, which again scaresChunk.
But then Sloth shares thechocolate with him and is just
(17:28):
very sweet.
Chunk tries to call the police,but they don't believe him
because he has a habit of lying.
So meanwhile the kids end upfinding the first of the booby
traps.
They find a spot where there'slots and lots of coins and they
(17:48):
realize they're underneath of awishing well that is right by
the country club.
It just so happens that Troy,the sociopathic bully, happens
to be up at the top of thewishing well and there's a
bucket there.
They're like oh okay, you canget us out.
And Mikey convinces them tokeep going to see if they can
find the real treasure.
(18:09):
The fratellis, um, they hadbeen asking, chunk, you know
where'd your friends go?
And he tells them everythinglike there's, there's this
pirate ship, there's thistreasure.
Because the fratellis had noidea, and so they follow as well
.
So that's where they are whenSloth and Chunk get out of
Sloth's prison and Chunk callsthe police.
And then so Chunk and Sloth endup following as well.
(18:32):
There are a number ofridiculous hijinks where they
have to get past different boobytraps, the coolest one being
like this piano made of bones,where they have to play the
notes correctly and everymistake they make, the floor
fall, piece of the floor fallsout, and so the only person who
(18:54):
plays piano is Andy, who tooklessons when she was much
younger, and so she's trying todo this, and meanwhile the
Fratellis are catching up tothem trying to do this.
And meanwhile the Fratellis arecatching up to them.
They end up in the cavern wherethe Inferno that's the name of
One-Eyed Willie's ship is, andthey get onto the boat and they
(19:15):
find the room with the treasurein it.
It's surrounded by skeletonsaround the table, and then
there's one with an eye patchthat's it's one-eyed Willie.
Mikey gets up there first andhe like talks to the to to
Willie and says like you werethe first, goonie, and you know
you and I have a lot in commonall of that.
(19:36):
And they start gathering up thetreasure.
There are these like scalestype things, you know, suspended
plates that have gold coins inthem, and so everyone starts
grabbing the treasure.
Mouth starts to grab some fromthose suspended plates and Mikey
says no, no, no, those are forWillie.
Take anything else you want,but leave those.
(19:59):
The Fratellis catch up with themand take all the treasure from
them and then have them tied upand make them walk the plank
when Sloth and Chunk show up andwe saw earlier Sloth watching a
pirate film, so he's doing thethings that he saw, and that's
also when he shouts the.
Hey, you guys, all the Gooniesend up in the water but they
(20:24):
don't have the, the, thetreasure, because the Fratelli
took it off of them.
So they end up.
They find a little spot wherethey can see daylight.
Unfortunately, they havecandles, but one of them is
actually dynamite and they lightit and realize like oh no, and
they ended up causing anotherrock fall.
(20:45):
Yeah, they found the candles onanother body from another
treasure hunter and I believeOkay.
So at this point Sloth is nowhas, like, pushed away his
family and gone to join theGoonies there is a huge rock
(21:09):
that is between them and beingable to get out, and so Sloth,
who is a very, very large man,is able to lift it up, and so
everyone runs underneath hislegs, and Chunk's the last one,
and Chunk's like Slothoth, youhave to come with us and sloth
goes.
Sloth loves chunk and, like youknow, grabs his hand and then
pushes him out from underneathand then the rock comes down and
(21:32):
kills sloth.
Don't know, you don't know atthe moment.
Oh, okay the chunk think he'sdead, that yeah, he.
Well, he's concerned, okay,he's concerned, he's like it's
gonna crush you, and that's allwe know.
So the kids get out onto thebeach there's some patrol out
there, and so they're thenreunited with all of their
families.
Just a moment later, so itseems a little bit later, all
(21:58):
four Fratellis, including Sloth,are coming up the beach, and so
the police are trying to arrestall four of them, and all the
goonies get in front of slothsaying like no, no, no, he's,
he's not one of them, he's withus.
And chunk tells sloth, you'regonna live with me now, I'm
gonna take care of you, whichseems like a pretty big promise
(22:18):
to run by his parents.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, so just since he doesn't have a home, isn't
his house being foreclosed on?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Meanwhile there is a Spanish speaking helper who
Mikey and Brandon's mother hadhired to help help them to with
packing, and so she'd come withthem.
She doesn't speak much Englishor any, and so she is like just
kind of helping with the clothesthat the kids had taken off
because it was all wet and, likeyou know, organizing it, and
(22:49):
she finds the marble bag thatMikey had had his marbles in it.
He took the marbles out and putjewels in, and the Fratellis
missed it when they took all thejewelry off of them.
So while Mikey and Brandon'sdad is in the middle of signing
the document about theforeclosure that will allow it,
(23:10):
she starts trying to say don'tsign, don't sign, and a mouth
has to translate and soeverything's saved.
And then at the last moment,because everyone's asking where
did you get these jewels, wheredid you get this treasure?
And they're trying to explainand no one believes them because
Chunk is the one talking and hehas a habit of lying when the
(23:33):
Inferno is somehow released fromits cavern.
When the Fratellis had goneinto the treasure room, they
took the treasure off of thesuspended plates, which was the
last booby trap, and it causedthe ceiling to collapse or
something of the cavern, and soit freed the boat to sail off by
(23:56):
itself.
It comes out into the sound orsomething, and then cue Cyndi
Lauper and the movie is over.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Huh, okay, okay, uh-huh, and then cue cindy
lopper and the movie is over.
Huh, okay, okay, I'm.
I'm realizing there's a lot oflike derivative, like things
that are derivative of it, thatI didn't realize because I had
lost the plot in my memory, butlike little movies and little
things that I'm seeing and whatyou've described were actually
(24:25):
sort of derivative of this, andprobably it's in a line that
there are others before it aswell that I'm not aware of.
But yeah, okay, I.
So where do you want to startwith the analysis?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So let's talk about Chunk, because I remember
feeling a little weird abouteven as a six-year-old.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
He's the fat kid.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, who has a name, but they call him chunk?
Yeah, his name is lawrence, buteveryone calls him chunk, and I
remember that bothering me as akid.
Yeah, um, the other so, andeveryone is really pretty cruel
to him, which I think issomewhat period typical.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, like time capsule.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Mm-hmm.
But, what strikes me even moreis how much the script relies on
it so constantly.
Chunk is talking about food.
He is distracted by food.
He like smells something andgoes like oh, I think that's.
And so discovers things.
(25:31):
Because of that, he is clumsyand constantly dropping things.
The way that he's dressed he'swearing plaid pants and a
flowered shirt, and so, like theentire point of his character
is that ha ha, fat kid.
Funny.
Including when we first meethim.
(25:54):
There is a Rube Goldberg machinethat opens the gate to Mikey
and Brandon's house.
And he's at the gate, going letme in, let me in.
Mouth is already there.
Like it's not clear how Mouthgot in, because the gate has
this Rube Goldberg machine.
He's like going, let me in, letme in, Mouth is already there.
Look, it's not clear how Mouthgot in, because the gate has
this Rube Goldberg machine.
He's like hey, let me in, letme in, Come on.
And Mouth says to him like onlyif you do the truffle shuffle.
(26:14):
And Chunk is like no, no, no,I'm not going to do that.
He's like then you're notcoming in.
So he, you're not coming in.
So he's like all right, fine.
And he jumps up on like a stumpor something like that, and he
(26:35):
pulls up his shirt and he doesthis like dance, so that you can
see his, his stomach likejiggling and it's gross.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's gross, yucky, and that was actually ad libbed
to like a 10 year old or 11.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah it was, um, it was ad libbed by jeff cohen.
So like they they knew, I think, that it was written that, um,
um, cory feldman's mouth wasgonna say do the truffle shuffle
, and then it was gonna be up tojeff cohen to figure out what
that was so it was internalizedfat phobia that he made his
(27:02):
stomach bounce.
Yeah um, so, and it's just like.
This movie is over the top inevery direction right so like
camp, it's camp, it's all camp.
So everything is, is, is, uh iscranked up to 11 yeah so like
(27:22):
it's on.
It's understandable that the fatphobia as punchline yeah to him
is a fat joke, but it's hard towatch.
Particularly so.
(27:48):
Jeff Cohen is no longer anactor, he is now an
entertainment lawyer and he isum very fit and uh.
This film was um directed byrichard donner, who was
apparently like sad at seeinglike the, the truffle shuffle
(28:13):
that cohen made up, um and likekind of took this kid under his
wing, which is kind of lovely,except that he paid for gym
membership for him, so that bythe time Cohen was in high
school, he was like likewrestling and and and you know,
(28:34):
like.
What this says to me is, for onething, one thing I have seen it
on multiple occasions wherethere's a kid who is a little
chubby, who grows up to besvelte, because that's how kids
grow, we have created thisentire mythos about like fat is
(29:02):
as fat does about children,which is not okay about adults
either, but is particularlyweird and short sighted and like
ugly about children.
And this is like just becauseyou so often will see, like, as
I tell my kids, like you know,kids grow out, then up.
(29:24):
You know like that's just,that's just how our bodies work,
and so you know, like the factthat it is a surprise that Jeff
Cohen, if you see pictures ofhim now you're like damn, when
he was actually an adorable kid.
I mean, he really was adorable.
(29:45):
It's like so gross.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think the thing that like bothers me about
stories like this are not thatthe gym membership was purchased
Like whatever Healthy choicesare good, fitness is good.
I am a regular gym goer but Ifeel like it's not actually
about making healthy choices,it's about being thin and those
(30:16):
two things are not the same andI feel like that's where we miss
.
Like that's where we reallymiss as a society is that we
have equated thinness withhealth and with merit and with
morality, and that is just afalse equivalency and that's
(30:38):
where it really bothers me.
So these stories about like sohe took this kid under his wing,
it's great because clearly thekid had some clearly cohen had
some internalized fat phobiathat he did that truffle shuffle
, the way that he did it, youknow, in in ad lib.
But rather than like hey, let'slike treat your body with
(30:59):
dignity and respect, it's likelet's make you thin so it's
worthy of treating it with.
Yeah dignity.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Well, and like, just considering the script as
written, there's no, there wasno chance of cohen treating his
body as it appeared in 1985.
Um, now, and here's, here'swhere, like this, this movie is
really interesting and why Ithink so many people love it and
(31:26):
why it has endured is well, forone thing, this is basically
all kids, like the, the entirecast for for the majority of the
hour and 40, no, like 50 minutemovie, it's nearly two hours,
his kids, and they're all reallygood actors, with the exception
(31:49):
of Cohen, who stopped actingbecause, like parts dried up,
similar to Kwan, and decided youknow, I don't want to wait like
, I want to do something else,I'm going to go in a different
direction in my life, um, butthe rest of them all remained in
acting and so, like some ofthis is like you get a lot more
(32:09):
than you would from a lot ofkids movies that are helmed by
kids, and so one of those islike Chunk is lovable.
He's like this very sweet,lovable kid, even with the ugly
fat jokes in there.
(32:30):
But the way that he responds toSloth is just delightful and
adorable and so welcoming.
Just delightful and adorableand so welcoming when the
Fratellis are trying to find outwhere his friends are.
He's telling them the truth andthey don't believe him and
they're threatening him.
They're like tell us.
(32:51):
And he's like, okay, okay, I'lltalk.
And he starts confessing to allthe terrible things he's done
in his life and there'ssomething so just genuine and
sweet about it and about likehow he, how he, he brings it out
, so like some of this is justlike Cohen's a very good actor
(33:11):
and and there's some sweetnesswritten into it and then the
just the actor bringing to thatcharacter was just lovely as
well.
But it's it's hard to watchjust because it never ends Like
the food jokes are from thebeginning to the very end.
There is never a point wherethere's not a food joke.
(33:31):
If Chunk is on screen, there'sgoing to be a food joke within
the next, you know, 90 secondsand that's it's really
unpleasant.
And the way that he first isable to bond with Sloth is over
(33:55):
food and that is in part becauseit's clear the fratellis
withhold food from sloth, yeah,and so like once sloth gets them
both out, like the first thinguh he does is he finds the ice
cream and is like get it.
Like while chunk is trying toto make a phone call to the
police.
Sloth is getting ice cream andspoons for them both.
(34:17):
And what I appreciate about this, that relationship, is that you
do see this like absoluteacceptance and not just chunk of
sloth, sloth of chunk.
Because I feel like this film isaccurate in the way that kids
really do talk to each other, inthat they're like constantly
(34:40):
talking over each other andthey're insulting each other and
, like you know, playing jokesand, and you know they're,
they're being little shitsdepending on the friend group.
That's how kids act and so,particularly because chunk is so
often the so often the butt ofeveryone's joke, the fact that
(35:00):
Sloth is so delighted with Chunkand accepts him as he is makes
it understandable that they havethis lovely bond, his friends.
Uh, the reason why chunk gotleft behind is, uh, he smelled
(35:22):
ice cream and found a freezer Idon't know how you smell ice
cream found a freezer and insidewas a dead body that fell out
and they all started freakingout.
The Fratellis came back.
They heard them come back andthey're like, oh my God, we've
got to get the body back in thefreezer.
And chunk got stuck in thefreezer with the body started
freaking out, the fratellis cameback.
They heard them come back andthey're like, oh my god, we got
to get the body back in thefreezer and chunk got stuck in
(35:43):
the freezer with the body and solike that's how much they care
about traumatizing.
Yeah, that's the level I'm like.
The friends do care about him,they do, but they don't realize
he's missing until they're theyhave gone down into the tunnel.
And then when he breaks out andthey, they're like, okay, you
(36:07):
gotta, you gotta get out, go outthrough the window and go get
the police.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So so um, can I ask?
I'm curious about the um, the,um, like the, the casual racism,
like everything's over the top,it's all camping so campy.
So we've got over the top campyfat phobia, where chunk is just
one fat joke.
Is data one long chinese joke?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
yeah, so he's got kind of an over the top accent.
He has all of these inventionsthat kind of don't work very
well.
I mean, they do and they, they,they will, will rescue him.
But it's like this sense oflike he's he's too smart for his
(36:58):
own good, he's so smart that hedoes stupid things kind of
thing.
And so and I, I, I kind ofremember, I don't know like
there there were a couple of thethe.
So there's one um that he has atthe very end, when they're
they're they're going to fightwith the Fratellis, he's like,
(37:19):
no, no, I got something for this.
And he has, at the very end,when they're they're they're
going to fight with theFratellis, he's like no, no, I
got something for this.
And he has, um, it's a boxingglove on like a spring that he
like has sends out and it's uh,misaligned, so it goes up and
does like an uppercut and hitshim.
So it's just, it's camp, youknow, and it it's it's very much
(37:41):
like inspector gadget typething.
And if we didn't have like, ifyou weren't the only non-white
kid right, right.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
It's like I heard this I think it was actually a
tiktoker an asian tiktoker whowas talking about how he wished
that there were more characterswho were Asian for no reason,
where their Asian-ness didn'tactually rely on the plot,
because there's so many whitepeople who are white for no
reason.
And that's kind of what you'resaying, like Chunk is fat for a
reason, it's part of the plot,it's required by the plot.
(38:15):
Data is Chinese for a reason,like it's part of the plot.
Data is Chinese for a reason,like it's part of the plot, or
at least the stereotypes aboutAsian people is is part of the
plot for this.
So it's not just like it's,it's not like the Mac and me
that you named where the kid wasa wheelchair user and it wasn't
a thing, it wasn't a part ofthe plot.
(38:35):
He was a wheelchair user for noreason like that, and I think
that's that's kind of what I washearing about chunk and was
wondering about about data, andyou've confirmed that that that
is the case.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
yeah, yeah and like everyone has a, a characteristic
that that's like it'severyone's one note and that's
that's.
This is not a film that you goin looking for depth or nuance.
Nuance, yeah, um.
So you know the fact thatbrandon is always exercising,
that is important for the plotbecause, like that's how they're
(39:10):
able to subdue him.
The fact that mouth is like amotor mouth and good with
languages, that means means he'sable to read the math that's in
Spanish and, you know, isconstantly talking, gets in
trouble.
And I, the thing that I rememberthinking was hilarious as a
little kid is when they'retaking the Fratellis, are taking
(39:33):
all the treasure off of thekids.
Mama Fratelli says, says tomouth, like aren't you the one
they call mouth?
He's like, he's like and she'slike you're being very, very
quiet, like what have you got inthere?
And it's because he's put sometreasure in his mouth in the
hopes that they won't find it.
And so she like pulls out astrand of pearls and it keeps
(39:55):
coming and coming and coming.
And then she's like is thateverything he's like?
And she's like nope, open upand like more stuff.
And I remember finding thathilarious as a small child
because he was the mouth, uh,but you know, they, they have,
they have these names, um.
(40:16):
So, and even even the girls weget, um, andy, who is just a
pretty plot device, mm-hmm Um,and I don't know if you remember
she ends up kissing Mikey,thinking he's Brandon.
Mm-hmm Um, I actually like Iremembered that and I remember
being like really uncomfortablewith it as a kid and it actually
(40:40):
, the way that it comes about,is a lot less weird than I
remembered.
So we see Andy and Stephanietalking and Stephanie's like
this is not the time or theplace, because Andy has really
been wanting to kiss Brandon andand he's like I know, I'm going
to do it.
And so she, she calls likeBrandon, can you come over here
(41:01):
please?
And Brandon is in the middle ofsomething and he's like Mikey,
can you go see what she needs?
And so she has her eyes closed.
She hears him coming and shegrabs him and kisses him and so,
like I had remembered it beinga little bit more like this is
(41:21):
one of those.
Nobody did anythingspecifically wrong, because
Brandon and Andy had almostkissed multiple times prior to
that.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, I guess I mean the lessons about consent, even
from a woman.
You know the female identifiedperson to the male identified
person like consent stillmatters.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It does, it, does it's, and I like, I totally like
.
Yes, it's still not great, butit's a lot better than I
remember, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, that's fair, but it's a lot better than I
remembered it.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, that's fair.
And so Stephanie sees that it'sMikey and she thinks it's
hilarious.
And so, and like Mikey, likeStephanie like helps him go
elsewhere.
And then Andy's like what, itwas beautiful.
She doesn't know, andy has noidea until later, when she
(42:24):
kisses brandon.
She's like what happened toyour braces?
Because mikey has braces andbrandon doesn't.
Oh boy, so and then like they,they realize what?
And then she later like says toMikey, if you keep kissing
girls like that, you're going tobe okay, or so I don't know,
(42:46):
something along those lines.
It's weird, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Oh, that's lucky yeah .
It's not okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, well, it's not okay, it's, it's so weird and
it's it's that.
That actually is the part thatI like, that now I'm seeing it
as a kid that just kind of wentby me.
Um, it was the actual kiss thatI had a problem with.
This time around seeing it, I'mjust like, no, that's the
(43:17):
problem where it's like, youknow, sexualizing a boy and
making it as if that's the end,all be all, and it's sexualizing
a child.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It's also there's a degree of like, I don't know,
like the consent doesn't matterif it was good, which is I mean
that we see that a lot in the80s.
If you fail to gain consent butthen the person enjoys it, it
then you're all clear.
I don't know there's a lotthat's wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
And the sense that as long as you're good at sexual
stuff, you can be anything elseyou want to be, or it doesn't
matter Nothing else, matterswhich which they would never say
, even in 85, to a girl.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
right that there's the gendered component of it as
well, because a girl who's goodat sex is a whore or a slut, but
a boy who's good at sex can dowhatever the hell he wants.
Yeah, there's so much messed upabout this.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It's so gross, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Okay, so Well, we've been talking for a long minute.
I have a feeling there's likeat least one more big point that
you want to get to, so let'shear it.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I do want to talk a little bit about class yeah
because that is really so.
There is a point where, whenthey can get up through the
wishing well and mikey it mightbe, it's that point.
(45:04):
Or another point where mikeysays goonies never say die and
andy says I'm not a gooniebecause she doesn't live um at
it's not goon point, the goondocs, goon docs, she doesn't
live at the goon docs, yeah, andshe is sort of dating t, sort
(45:24):
of not dating Troy.
It's one of those where, likeTroy's the bully, yes, troy's
the bully.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So when we first see her, Andy, who we were talking
about before, who wants to kissBrand?
Yes, is he dating him?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Oh, she really is a prize to kiss brand yes dating
him, so not exactly it's moreprize, it's more that um like
it's it's not clear that she'sdating him.
She, like brandon, sayssomething along the lines of
like I have a date with andy onon friday, and so it's clear
that brandon and andy like eachother and that that is that is
her interest.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
But t Troy is also interested in her, but Troy
likes her too.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, we see her getting a ride from him in his
red new convertible car and he'smoving the mirror so he can
look down her shirt and sheknows it.
And she tells him like if youmove it again I don't remember
exactly what she does, but shethreatens him, she's like she,
she, she's not having it soshe's not, she's they.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
They give the script, gives her enough agency that
she's not just like being handedfrom one man to the other, it
sounds like.
And the fact that we see thathe, that the bad guy, the
villain, has interest in her,but we, but she actually ends up
with the poor kid, makes hervery much a prize.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
So something that I think is interesting to talk
about, class Is.
So when we meet Troy, he'sdriving this like brand new
convertible, he's 16.
When the kids run away fromBrandon, like when they trap him
, run away, mouth lets out theair on the tires of Brandon's
(47:18):
bike and Mikey says to him likedon't do that.
He had to mow like 347 lawns toafford that bike.
And Mikey says to him likedon't do that.
He had to mow like 347 lawns toafford that bike.
And so there's this like thisclear distinction.
You know, like that's.
And he says his favorite thingit's his prized possession.
So like the clear classdistinction between Troy and
Brandon there.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
I mean plus the story arc of the homes being
foreclosed on.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yes, but there's a really interesting moment when
they are beneath the wishingwell and it is Troy and two of
his rich friends who arestanding around the wishing well
and I read a commentary sayingeven though Andy doesn't
consider herself a goonie, sheis going to be the first one
(48:07):
they lift up, and it's partiallybecause Troy sees that she's
down there and so he wants tohelp her.
And at first, data's like I'mthe smallest, I should go up
first.
And Brandon, who is the oldestone there, is like you know what
?
No, I want to make the like.
I think Andy should go up first.
And you know what?
No, I want to make the like.
I think Andy should go up first, and you know, and then we'll,
(48:30):
we'll go up one at a time.
And so this commenter,commentator um, pointed out that
this is like Troy is raisingAndy up to his level through
marriage in the way that thatcan happen.
And so, even though Andydoesn't live in the Goondocks
and she is not the same level asthose who are going to lose
(48:50):
their homes, she's definitelynot wealthy like Troy's family
is, and so she has more incommon with the Goonies than she
does with Troy and his familyand friends, and so I thought
that that was really interesting.
And then the fact that she,mikey, convinces her like, hey,
we could create our own futureby continuing and finding
(49:14):
Willie's gold and and, you know,saving our homes and all of
that.
So there's like an interestingstory in there or interesting
metaphor in there about likekind of like american bootstraps
and and can do and that sort ofthing where it's like, you know
(49:35):
this, the, the lower incomekids band together to get
something, winning out againstboth the criminals and the like
wealthy.
And how Andy chooses not to gobe raised up by Troy and in fact
(50:00):
they what they do, they don'ttell him they're not coming up.
She has been wearing Troy'sLetterman sweater, so she puts
that on the bucket and when hepulls the bucket up it's just
his sweater.
So it's very much a repudiationof Troy and so that I think is
also really interesting aboutthis class.
Solidarity, solidarity.
(50:21):
It's fascinating I think.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I think there's something also, if we're talking
about the metaphors of it.
There's something reallyinteresting that you just put
three strata for well, four, atleast three, um, with sort of
the middle class bandingtogether and the upper class and
then sort of criminal criminals.
And it's interesting to me toothe way you described the plot.
You had mikey, I think, talk tothe deceased, one-eyed willie
(50:51):
and kind of like have a momentof solidarity with the dead
pirate who was a criminal, atleast in some way of
understanding right, but, um,but sort of leaving willie, what
was willie's on those plates,whatever they were, was actually
(51:11):
like showed a level ofunderstanding that it it
corroborated mikey's assertionthat they had things in common,
because that's what kept theboat from doing what it did in
the end, that the Fratellisdidn't do.
Right, they were too greedy.
Right, the kids were greedy,but it was for the right reasons
(51:34):
, like some of that kind ofmoralizing that happened.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, yeah, and the Fratellis were greedy just for
greed's sake, right.
And like there's reallyinteresting, like I know I don't
have to tell you, but likebeing around you for as long as
I have, like I'm seeing reallyinteresting, like lessons about
money in particular andmoralizing around money in sort
(51:58):
of the class strata, by makingthe rich guys the bad guys, but
also in sort of the attitudetowards those doubloons between
these kids, the goonies and thefratellis well, and it's.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
It's interesting because it's it's making it
clear that the problem with thefratellis is the same as the
problem with troy's father andthe people who want to foreclose
on the, on the houses is thatthey want more than what's
theirs.
They are greedy to the point oflike rapaciousness, whereas
(52:38):
greed's fine as, as long as youlike.
There there's a border to itsomewhere.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Or, like I said, for the right reasons I'm putting
quotes around that.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, Well, there's a point where Mikey apologizes to
his dad.
He says there's, you know, weleft the loot to save our lives.
And his dad says you know, Ihave you and your brother, I'm
the richest man in Astoria.
And Troy's says you know I haveyou and your brother, I'm the
richest man in Astoria.
And Troy's father says no, I'mactually the richest man in
Astoria and you need to signthis.
So oh, yeah, it's very American.
(53:17):
Like this is not a film thatcould be made by British.
Yeah, it's just an odd, oddmovie that really captures,
especially like the 1980s.
Greed is good, it's justnowhere to stop.
(53:41):
The solidarity with Willie isanother thing that I remembered.
Willie was not just a pirate,he was a murderer.
Not that those are mutuallyexclusive Of his own crew, but
of his own crew, yeah, so likehaving solidarity with that guy
(54:06):
doesn't seem particularly nice.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah, and his greed, I mean in murdering his own crew
so that they couldn't escapewith it.
But he knew he couldn't escapewith it either, hence he booby
trapped the cavern, like thatfeels like the wrong kind of
greed, y'all.
Yeah, yeah, wow, all right.
Well, I'm actually going to askone more question before I try
(54:30):
and wrap up.
Why do people love it so much?
Why is this movie so beloved?
Speaker 1 (54:36):
So as I said, the, the, the acting choices of these
children are amazing.
Like, even though everyone islike a stick figure of a
character, the kids playing themreally give them depth and
(54:59):
nuance.
So I think there is something tothat.
Like you, you really believethat these are, these are, these
people are friends, like youbelieve that these are real
people, even though they arevery much not real people
because of like the over thetopness of so much of of how
they respond to each other.
So I think that's that's partof it.
Another part of it is this isfeels like a movie that
(55:24):
recognizes when kids knowthey're being talked down to, so
like it's a ridiculous movieand there are things that you
know are put in there to makethe movie work that aren't
realistic.
But the things that kids careabout are realistic.
(55:47):
Like the kids say shit to eachother all the time.
They actually curse.
It's PG or maybe PG-13.
I don't know, but it doesn'thave the F word or anything like
that.
But they talk about the thingsthe kids actually talk to each
other about.
They talk over each other, theyget mad at each other, they
yell at each other, they sayterrible things to each other.
(56:09):
So like that is something thatI feel like a lot of movie
makers would not do, becauselike, oh, we don't want to put
that in a kid's movie, and kidsknow that, whereas like this
feels like when you're watchingit, you're like, yeah, this is
how kids are, like this, this is, this is like a true group of
friends, this is the the kind ofcruelty that they would have
(56:32):
for each other, even though theyreally do care about each other
.
Um, and so I think that,combined with the adventure
aspect of it, which really iscool the piano is the one that I
remember as being like that isso cool, but like the booby
traps and like the kids beingable to outsmart adults who have
(56:52):
tried, because there are otheradults who have tried to get
there and have failed, and theyoutsmart the Fratellis, and like
that is also really compelling.
And then one other thing that II think people really appreciate
about this movie is, um,actually sloth, and so I saw I
(57:20):
was doing a little bit ofresearch I saw someone who had
never seen it watched it for thefirst time sometime in like the
last five or 10 years, and theylike they didn't get it and
they're like, why is Sloth inthis movie?
I don't understand what thatcharacter is there for and I was
feeling like, well, of courseSloth is in the movie, like
(57:40):
that's kind of what the movie isabout.
Sloth is in the movie, likethat's kind of what the movie is
about is like the importance ofnot judging each other and
being kind to a kind, even whenyou're frightened.
Because Mikey is the first tosee Sloth and is terrified but
he sees that, um, jake has leftSloth's food where he can't
(58:00):
reach it and so he kind of kicksit closer and sloth roars and
he gets frightened and runs away.
So even when he's terrifiedhe's trying to be kind.
Wish he could be that kind tohis friends.
But but the the that's dynamicof it's kind of like the casual
(58:23):
cruelty that the Fratellis havefor their own and we see there's
a lot of squabbling betweenFrancis and Jake, the other two
brothers, and constantlybickering and arguing with their
mother and stuff like thatwhich is mostly played for
laughs.
But they are unutterably cruelto Sloth.
And then you see, among Troyand his father you don't see any
(58:50):
kind of cruelty like that, butyou do see Troy talking about
Andy with some friends in a verydegrading, casually cruel way.
They're like, have you gottenwith Andy yet?
And, and, uh, he's like, um, Ihaven't yet, but the operative
word is yet, and you know it's,it's gross.
(59:13):
And so the Goonies like thedifference we see with them, and
especially when we see at theend, when they're, they're
reunited with their parents, um,is this like undercurrent of
acceptance and love and, youknow, seeing each other, even
though it's a film that relieson stereotypes.
(59:36):
So they're, they're like, youget this and in part because of
the like, just incredible skillof the of the child actors, many
, like pretty much all, of whomgrew up to be a-list celebrities
.
I'm not gonna say all of whom,but they all grew up to to to
show that this was not a fluke.
(59:57):
These are, these are not childactors, these are actors who
happen to be children, um, butthere's also there's this
undercurrent of like sweetnessthat I think people really,
really appreciated.
And if you encountered it forthe first time as a kid in the
80s, when the fat phobia and thecasual racism didn't really
(01:00:22):
like connect as as as a problem,like cause, that's what was in
every movie we saw and it'sgenuinely funny.
And then you, you get thisgenuine sense of like these are
real kids.
These are not, you know,scripted lines, cause they're.
They're shouting over eachother, they're, you know, they
feel like they're doing all ofthese things is is really.
(01:00:46):
It's kind of remarkable, and sothere's there.
There's very good reason whypeople like it.
So there's very good reason whyit's a lot of people's favorite
movie, and I think that it's.
It's definitely still worthwatching.
It's just one of those.
As you watch, be cognizant ofthe fact that you're going to
get a lot of jokes that justdon't hit anymore because they
(01:01:08):
feel so cruel, but the heartunderneath of it is a very
tender and sweet one.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
All right, can I do my?
Thing?
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, do your thing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, can I do my thing?
Yeah, do your thing.
Yeah, can I do my thing?
Yeah, do your thing.
All right, I'll do my best, so Ithink I'm actually going to
popcorn around a little bit.
So you started your analysis bytalking about the fat phobia in
the character of chunk and younoted Lawrence, the character of
(01:01:47):
Lawrence, who people call chunk, and you noted that all of
these characters are one notecharacters, and so it's like
it's part and parcel, like itfits that there's one note,
there is one joke with thischaracter, because everything is
dialed up to 11 and a lot of itis based on stereotypes.
And also it hurts to see thecasual fat phobia, the way in
(01:02:13):
which, if you said I heard yousay, if Chunk is on screen,
there will be a food joke withinthe next 90 seconds that it's
just one long fat joke at thisperson's expense, which, which
actually like played out even inthe real life of this actor,
(01:02:35):
cohen jeff cohen, right, jeff,who's um the one of the adults
associated with the film, sortof so-called took him under his
wing and, to do so, got him agym membership and now he's all
svelte and fit as anentertainment lawyer, which, I
pointed out, is like not badright, like fitness is a good
(01:03:00):
thing.
And also the problem is when wewe put equivalencies around, um
merit, merit and morality, um,and deservingness, right, like.
I really wish that JeffreyCohen had gotten the lesson that
his body was worthy of dignityand care, regardless of how it
(01:03:22):
was shaped.
And also I'm glad he's makinghealthier choices like, or
healthy choices he could havemade.
I don't know if he was makinghealthy choices or not because
he was a kid and, as you pointedout, a lot of times kids like
have some extra, um, extra sizeout before they go up.
(01:03:43):
We I asked if this a similar, um, kind of sort of stereotyping
and one note ness was true withthe character of data, um, the
chinese character, and you notedthat it was he's sort of an
inspector gadget character who'slike too smart for his own good
and ends up kind of flubbing itwith his many, his many
(01:04:05):
inventions, and that is too badand also expected, let me see.
So we talked a bit about oh, weactually spent a good amount of
time talking about the momentwhen Andy accidentally kisses
(01:04:27):
Mikey, mikey, mm-hmm, when sheintends to kiss Brandon, and
sort of the aftermath of that,like in the moment it's just
sort of played for laughs.
And then afterwards Andy saysto him once she realizes that
she kissed him by accident.
You keep kissing like that kidand you're going to be okay.
(01:04:48):
And we talked about the factthat this is really unpleasant
on multiple levels, like notonly is it a sexualization of a
(01:05:11):
child, and sort of theimplication that lack of consent
is somehow made okay if theperson enjoys it.
And the genders were reversedin terms of who was older and
who was younger.
That never would have happened,even in the 80s, because girls
who are good at sex are slutsand boys who are good at sex can
have whatever they want.
With that same character of Andy, you brought in some
(01:05:34):
interesting sort of visualmetaphors around class and
gender, in the ways in whichAndy, though she isn't as kind
of low on the social hierarchyas the Goonies, she's not as
high as Troy and the rich kids,and there's a literal
opportunity for her to be liftedup by those rich people which
(01:05:58):
she chooses instead to repudiatethem and return the guy's
letterman jacket.
And there's a metaphor in therearound sort of the matrimony
and the ways in which marriagecan change a person's status.
(01:06:19):
But what do they give up in sodoing status, but what do they
give up in so doing?
We spent a long time talkingtoo about class and some of the
messages around class and themessages around money and greed.
And there's some kind oftwo-sided like both sides of the
coin messages happening at thesame time where we're seeing
(01:06:42):
like greed's all right when theGoonies do it because it's like
for the right reasons, orbecause messages happening at
the same time where we're we'reseeing like greets, all right
when the Goonies do it becauseit's like for the right reasons
or because they they know whento stop, you know, or because
they leave Willie, what wasWillie's.
And it's bad when the Fratellisdo it because they just don't
know when to stop, it'srapacious.
And it's bad when the Troys ofthe world and the rich folks in
(01:07:04):
the town do it because, again,it's rapacious and they don't
know when to stop and they alsolose sight of what really
matters.
I'm putting quotes around thatwhich we get explicitly at the
end of the movie, when BrandonMikey's dad says I have you and
your brother, I'm the richestman in the town.
(01:07:26):
And Troy's dad's like no, I amand I'm going to take your house
from you.
Um, let me see, I feel likethere was.
Oh.
And then finally, I asked youwhy this movie is so beloved,
and you talked about a couple ofthings.
One, the just acting chops ofthese kids, who I love the way
you put this they weren't childactors, they were actors who
(01:07:47):
happened to be children and gavethese flat characters quite a
bit of nuance interact with oneanother in ways that felt
realistic, that kids actually do, not the way grownups write
kids, but the way kids actuallyact, which, for those of us who
(01:08:07):
maybe watched it as kids in the80s and 90s in repeat, just felt
really validating and real andresonated in important ways.
You also really pointed to theways in which this film drives a
message of inclusion and themessage of not judging and sort
of loving folks and being kind,even when we're scared, with the
(01:08:31):
person of sloth, the, who hasboth physical deformities and
also, um, intellectualdisabilities, it seems, but who
and who is the children arescared of when they first meet
him, but who ends up being theirliteral salvation at one point,
um, and and the way that youput it just at the end, that I
(01:08:54):
thought was really, um, lovelyis that, though, there are
things that have not aged well,the sort of time capsule jokes,
um, that were of the 80s thathave not aged well.
The heart which is underneaththis film like it, the actual
kind of like, and the moral ofthe story is remains really sort
of sweet.
So that's what I remember for asynthesis.
(01:09:23):
What did I forget?
Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Um, so one thing I want to just kind of lift up is
uh, cause when we first startedtalking you, you were saying I
was saying like yeah, there'scasual racism, there's fat
phobia, and you're like, oh, andableism, like actually no, this
film does a really decent jobof making it clear that Sloth is
(01:09:49):
one of the Goonies.
He is one of them even thoughhe is a Fratelli by birth and is
not a child and visually kindof scary, but he is an equal and
important part of the team andso that that was something that,
(01:10:09):
uh, I like I remember likingthat storyline as a kid, Um, but
it was lovely to see again,just to to to recognize like, oh
, wow, there, that that is areally important lesson of of
inclusion, that I of inclusionthat I don't know how often we
get in modern films for kidssome of the like.
Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Now we see blatant like jokes that went over their
heads, like the name of thepirate being one-eyed willie.
So yeah, the dick jokes, thedick jokes baked in that we
missed when we were kids.
Okay, well, this was fun.
Thank you for taking this one.
I'm sure that this one will beimportant for our fellow Gen
Xers, and next week is me, andI'm gonna bring another one that
(01:11:13):
reminds me of our cousin Chris,which is Richard Pryor's the
Toy.
Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
That is going to be an interesting one to revisit.
Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Yeah, yeah, good luck with that.
This kind of feels like if wedecide to do Soul man at some
point, it's like, oh boy, do wewant to do soul man at some
point?
It's like, oh boy, do we wantto touch that?
Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Not it?
Not it?
All right, I'll see you then.
See you then.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over to guy girlsmediacom slash, sign up and
share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy.
But don't wait, there's alimited quantity.
(01:12:07):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what'sin your head?
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