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...And that's how I found out there was no Santa Claus.
Today, Tracie returns to another one of the movies that traumatized her and Emily in early childhood: the 1984 film Gremlins. Written by Chris Columbus and directed by Joe Dante, the film was advertised as a fun family fantasy, with the adorable mogwai Gizmo (described by Roger Ebert as a cross between a Pekingese, Yoda, the Ewoks, and a kitten) as too cute for little kids to pass up. What the 1980s movie going audience didn't know was that this film was playing with storytelling and fiction tropes and really tap-dancing on the fine line that separates comedy from horror. Columbus and Dante created a film about their love of movies, using Gremlins as an opportunity to recreate some of their favorite scenes, characters, and moments from classic movies. And then, like one of the eponymous rampaging gremlins, they stuck it all in a blender and hit frappe.
The result is a fun, weird, scary, bizarre, and sometimes offensive mashup of movies and messages and lessons and metaphors that don't entirely make sense all together, because making sense was beside the point.
Put on your headphones and take a listen. Just don't turn your back on any nearby Christmas trees.
Mentioned in this episode: https://www.cracked.com/article_38101_sexual-anxiety-racism-the-vietnam-war-no-one-knows-what-gremlins-is-a-metaphor-for.html
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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We are the sister podcasters Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our extended family as the Guy Girls.
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love 80s and 90s movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, analyzing film tropes with a side of feminism, and examining the pop culture of our Gen X childhood for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, religious allegory, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
The movie makers clearly love movies.
I mean, that's why they wentinto what they went into.
And that shows through.
There are specific movies whosereferences we see, like because
clips of them appear, includingIt's a Wonderful Life, Invasion
of the Body Snatchers, andDisney Snow White.
But there are other referencesto movies throughout that, so
(00:44):
that we get sort of in thesethree acts, it's almost like
three separate genres, which isreally, I think, really
interesting.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
up culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
(01:08):
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture, and shouldn't you know
what's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll betalking about the 1984 film
Gremlins with my sister, EmilyGuyberkin, and with you.
Let's dive in.
(01:29):
And we saw this together.
So I know you saw this movie.
So tell me what's in your headabout it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
So this is one where you said recently that I like
remember entire plots of moviesand you just remember how they
made you feel.
This is one where I don't reallyhave that much of a memory.
I there are some things I knowabout it.
I know that this movie scaredthe crap out of us because I
know that this is the movie thatmade dad decide that if he took
(01:54):
us to the movies, he would gosee it first before he took us
to see it.
Which, hypocrite much, Mr.
Poltergeist.
I remember like Gizmo, the goodgremlin, like driving a little
toy car and being super cute.
(02:16):
I remember like Stripe, like thebad gremlin, and like something
about one of them in amicrowave.
I had completely forgotten thatit was set at Christmas until
something reminded me of that.
I remember that there were rulesabout not feeding the gremlins
(02:36):
after midnight and not gettingthem wet.
And I kind of remember that theGremlin was a gift, like a
Christmas gift it must havebeen, that the main character's
father got in like Chinatown orsomething.
(02:58):
And that's about the extent ofit.
That's like 60% of the plot thatyou remember.
Oh, and the other thing, I knowthat this is apparently there's
one other movie, but this is oneof the two movies that is the
reason why we have PG 13.
Yeah.
Because dad was taking us, Iwould have been what, five and
you were eight.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
It was 1984.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Yeah.
So why are we talking about thistoday?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Well, we're talking about it right now because it is
in fact a Christmas movie.
So this and last week's episodeabout love actually are our
double-barreled Christmasepisodes this year.
It was on the list because,yeah, it was one of those ones
that we watched as kids thatlike I remember it scaring us.
And but I also remember all ofthe like merchandising around it
(03:42):
and how like Gizmo was like,like, I think we had a toy of
him in that little pink car whenwe were that age.
So that's why I was on the listoriginally, and that's why we're
doing it right now.
So let me give you somepostcards from The Destination.
Like this film has surprisinglya lot in it.
I didn't remember until I justre-watched it that Steven
(04:04):
Spielberg is the executiveproducer, directed by Chris
Columbus and written by JoeDante.
Huh.
Because Chris Columbus directedthe first Harry Potter film.
He has a long filmography.
Yeah.
He's very prolific in sort ofthe like oove that Deep Thoughts
covers.
So, and I didn't remember any ofthat.
(04:25):
I want to talk about the waythat like other movies, like
that references old movies tokind of like make you expect
something and then subvert whatyou're expecting.
Those include It's a WonderfulLife and Invasion of the Body
Snatchers, and even StevenSpielberg's own ET a little bit.
I also want to talk about likeit seems to have some cultural
(04:47):
commentary, possibly aboutxenophobia, about consumerism
slash capitalism, and likegreed, and about different
commentators have differentideas about what the gremlins
represent.
So I want to spend some timetalking about that.
There are some commentators,multiple commentators who see
the gremlins as stand-ins forblack folks, like moving into
(05:10):
the suburbs and like have calledit a very racist movie as a
result.
So I want to like spend sometime unpacking that.
There's like a bunch of shit totalk about with the rules that
you mentioned.
Like there is actually oneother, and like just the nature
of this species that I'm notgonna spend a whole lot of time
on because a lot of people havegone real deep on that and
they'll do a better job than Iwill anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
But I will just say don't feed them after midnight
at some point, going likeEastern time, central time.
unknown (05:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
When does it reset?
Because it's always aftermidnight.
Like, yeah.
And apparently in Gremlins 2,Columbus does address that
somehow.
I didn't go into that.
I didn't rewatch the sequels.
This is only talking about thefirst movie.
So, and I don't want to spendtoo long on that because I think
a lot of ink, well, pixels havebeen spilled on that.
(06:00):
And those folks did a lot moreresearch and thinking than I'm I
did.
So I'm just gonna let them haveit.
I do want to unpack like what dothe Kremlins gremlins represent
and like what is the kind ofwhether intentional or
unintentional commentaryhappening here.
But let me start with filling inthe plot.
You really do remember like 60%of it.
(06:21):
That is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
I was five.
I've not seen it since.
That was 41 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
I know.
So we first meet throughvoiceover, Rand Randolph,
Randall, I don't know, Rand.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
He goes by Rand Pelzer.
Is that intentional, like AynRand, do you think?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
I don't know.
So he's an inventor.
And he says he's in Chinatown tomaybe sell some of his stuff and
maybe get a Christmas presentfor his kid.
So he goes down, like down thesestairs, and this young boy,
Chinese boy, is he's following.
Rand is white.
(07:07):
He's following this youngChinese boy, and he's like,
Where are you taking me?
And he says, This is it.
He says, This is yourgrandfather's store.
Yes.
So it's this like like cliched,like, you know, very full
curiosity shop.
Grandfather, and that's the onlyname he has even in the credits,
is this like elderly Chinese manwith two different colored eyes,
(07:28):
like smoking a long pipe.
And he's looking around at allthe different stuff, like dried
animals and like tarantulas andlike gold dragons, and like, I
don't know, this sort of likeorientalism.
And I'm I'm using that word veryintentionally.
Xenophobia much.
Yeah.
Stuff that like that like whitefolks are expecting to find in
an underground shop, right?
(07:48):
And he tries to sell thegrandfather the this bathroom
buddy, which is like, imaginelike a Swiss army knife, but
with bathroom tools.
But then when he presses thebutton that's supposed to put
the toothpaste on thetoothbrush, it like squirts all
over him.
He's not a good inventor.
We establish that immediately.
He hears some like kind ofcooing and goes to find what it
(08:09):
is, and it's this littlecreature, which we learn is
called a mogwai, which RogerEbert said looks like a cross
between Yoda and an ewok and akitten, which I think is
actually fairly accurate.
It's like a it's a movingstuffed animal.
(08:29):
The Furby dolls were famouslybased on it and like really
Warner Brothers sued them.
I didn't know that.
The Furby dolls being likelooking just like Gizmo.
So he says, I have to have it.
You know, so very like VerucaSalt, like, I have to have it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
I want it now.
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Yeah.
He says, I'll give you a hundredbucks for it.
He puts a hundred dollar billdown on the counter, and the old
man's like, no, it's not forsale.
And the little kid, you see, thelittle kid, the boy who had
shown him down into the thing,his eyes widen at the$100 bill.
He says, I have to, uh,$200.
And the old man says, It's notfor sale.
With Mogwai comes greatresponsibility and you can't
(09:11):
handle it.
And he walks away.
And the kid says, Go outside andwait for me.
So the kid, unlike under hisgrandfather's nose, sells him
the mogwai.
So meanwhile, we meet Billy, hisson, Billy Pelzer, who is in his
early 20s, still living at home,working as a bank teller.
(09:33):
He drives a little VolkswagenBeetle that doesn't drive.
It's snowy.
They're in Kingston Falls, andwe immediately meet their
neighbor, Mr.
Futterman, who says KingstonFalls, New York?
They don't say what state.
Okay.
Mr.
Futterman says, You can't trustthese foreign cars.
That's why I only buy thingsmade in America.
(09:53):
And like he goes on and on abouthow things foreign manufacturing
can't be trusted.
But Billy has to get to work, sohe walks with his dog, who's
called Barney, who doesn't needa leash, and he goes and he
works in a bank as a bankteller.
The dog comes with him and likehides under his little desk
(10:14):
while he's at the bank.
I don't really get that.
We also meet his love interest,whose name is Kate, played by
Phoebe Cates, who has him sign apetition because they're trying
to save a bar, I think, or somesort of establishment that Mrs.
Dingle wants to not renew thelease on.
And Billy says, Oh, them too.
(10:36):
So now we've established Mrs.
Dingle is like a mean landlady.
She marches into the bankcarrying a giant snowman head,
like ceramic snowman head.
And we see her like walking downthe street to get to the bank,
and she's like very mean.
Like somebody says, Goodmorning, Mrs.
Dingle.
And she says, What's good aboutit?
(10:57):
And then as she's on her wayinto the bank, like a woman with
her two kids is like, Oh, Mrs.
Dingle, my husband got a job andI've been taking up side sewing
projects.
And she says, I don't, Mrs.
Harris, what why are you tellingme this?
And she says, just give us alittle more time and we'll have
the money for the rent.
And she says, It's my job andthe bank's job to make money.
(11:19):
And Mrs.
Harris says, It's Christmastime.
And Mrs.
Ding and Mrs.
Dingle says, Well, then I guessyou know what to ask for Santa
for.
So she's like real nasty.
So we establish that, right?
We established that prettyquickly.
The snowman head is someBavarian import that Barney the
(11:41):
dog broke, and she's coming toconfront Billy about it.
He says, I'll pay you for it.
She says, I don't want yourmoney.
I want your dog.
Well, the dog, who apparentlyunderstands English, unties his
little leash that's got him liketied up underneath of the teller
table and like jumps at her andhe almost gets fired, but he
doesn't get fired.
We learn.
So this is all like this is allin the first few minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
Yeah, this is Wizard of Oz stuff, it sounds totally.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah.
She very much, Mrs.
Dingle very much is the Mrs.
Gulch when she's very much Mrs.
Gulch.
Like the same vibe, the sameenergy, even of similar look.
We learn that Billy is a artist.
He's like a cartoonist.
And in fact, apparently, likewhen he's sitting at a bar at
the bar drawing where Kate worksin the evenings, Chuck Jones is
(12:27):
sitting next to him.
That's what one of thecommentators I was reading said,
which is really interesting.
Anyway, we see Kate and Billyinteract and like somebody else
from the bank, like giving Billya hard time about this guy who's
played by a famous actor, JudgeReinhold.
He says how he's he's like only23 and he's already a junior
(12:49):
vice president and he's gonna bea millionaire by the time he's
30 or so.
I don't know.
He's like he's an asshole whowas greedy.
We go home, we meet Billy's mom,who is chopping onions and
watching It's a Wonderful Lifeon a little tube TV in the
kitchen.
And she's crying, I'm guessing.
Yes.
(13:09):
And she's chopped about, I don'tknow, like four onions.
Like one is one is led to himlike believe that maybe she got
distracted by the movie and justchopped more than she intended
because there's like a mountainof onions.
Anyway, there are inventions allover the kitchen that do not
work, that are the dad'sinventions.
(13:30):
He comes home with the present.
We open the present.
Oh my God, it's so cute.
The dad has named has beencalling him Gizmos.
Now we know his name.
The three rules, which thelittle boy told the dad when he
gave him the box with it, thethree rules are number one, keep
it away from bright light,especially sunlight.
Sunlight will kill it.
(13:52):
Number two, don't ever get itwet.
You don't give it water todrink, you don't get it wet.
You definitely do not give it abath.
And number three is that youdon't feed it after midnight.
The dad forgets those rules, butthe mom goes to take a picture
of them with gizmo and itflashes and he and little gizmo
freaks out.
So then dad remembers to tellthe rules.
(14:13):
Okay, great.
Then we just see the sort of theordinary like Norman Rockwell
town, which we are definitelymeant to see it as a Bedford
Falls.
Yeah.
Since we just saw It's aWonderful Life, right?
We are definitely meant to seeit as Bedford Falls.
It's called Kingston Falls.
It looks a lot like that townfrom It's a Wonderful Life, like
(14:34):
with the Town Square and likethe Burger King and the Sears
and the whatever, all and theand all the people walking
around, they all know eachother, and like it's definitely
meant to be Bedford Falls.
Corey Feldman is a little kid.
Like Corey Feldman is an 11.
Yeah, very briefly.
He works for his dad at theChristmas tree lot, like and has
(14:56):
to wear this stupid Christmastree costume.
He ends up at the Pelzer's houseto deliver their Christmas tree
and is hanging out with Billyand meets Gizmo and like knocks
over some paintbrushes that aresitting in water, and Gizmo gets
wet, and it clearly hurts him.
Like Gizmo is like writhing andstuff.
(15:18):
And then like little puffballspat like fall, like pop up off
of his back and turn into newMogwai.
So now there are six of them.
It's been like 12 hours andthey've already broken one of
the rules.
Two.
Because the light, light, right.
Billy takes one of the new onesto meet his science teacher, Mr.
(15:42):
Hansen, who's a black dude.
Like apparently the only blackdude in Kingston Falls.
Mr.
Hanson is like fascinated bythis.
Billy shows him how itreproduces.
He likes takes an eyedropper andputs a little water on this new
one.
And now there's two.
And Mr.
Hanson says, Hey, can I keep oneof these?
I want to run some tests.
And Billy's like, sure,whatever.
(16:03):
Mr.
Hansen has the thing, and likebasically shenanigans ensue
because both Billy accidentally,well, both of them accidentally,
both Billy and Mr.
Hanson end up breaking the thirdrule and feed them after
midnight.
In Billy's case, it's becauseone of the new ones, Stripe,
they call him that because hehas like a single white stripe
(16:26):
up his head that that almostlooks like a mohawk, has somehow
cut the cord of the digitalclock by Billy's bedside.
And so he's they're acting likethey're super hungry, the five
new ones.
And so he says, Well, it's notmidnight yet, because he looks
at the clock and it's only 1140.
So he goes and gets them thisgiant pleat of chicken wings or
(16:49):
legs.
Like just they're just sittinguncovered in the fridge.
What?
Anyway, and meanwhile at theschool, Mr.
Hansen is there at like 220 inthe morning.
What?
And he I used to teach thatdoesn't happen.
I mean, he is doing experimentson this new form of life, but
(17:11):
still, it's 2.20 in the morning.
Doesn't happen.
He has drawn some blood with asyringe from his little mogwai.
Did not like that, by the way,and left like a half-eaten
sandwich on some tinfoil, likewithin, I guess within arm's
reach, mogwai arm's reach on thetable from the cage where this
thing is.
Meanwhile, Gizmo and Billy hadbeen watching, this is
(17:35):
important.
They'd been watching Invasion ofthe Body Snatchers.
So apparently, what happens ifthey eat after midnight is that
they turn into these likenasty-looking cocoons, which Mr.
Hansen helpfully tells us is thepupil stage, like a butterfly,
Corey Feldman, whose character'sname is Pete, tells us.
So that inside they're goingthrough some sort of
metamorphosis.
(17:57):
When they bust out, they aremore like the xenomorph from
alien than like an ewok.
That's the gremlin.
That's the gremlin.
Right.
They hatch like during class,Mr.
Hansen is showing a film abouthearts, like the organ.
(18:19):
And the he realizes what'shappening, you know, that it's
hatching, but he doesn't want todraw attention to it for his
students.
The bell rings, they leave, andnow he goes and gets the
Snickers and is trying to drawthis thing out.
He like finds where it is undera desk and like has the open
candy bar and sort of holds itunder the desk.
And we hear the gremlin go, yum,yum, which is like the only full
(18:42):
sentence that they ever say.
They do say words otherwise.
And us, the audience, are like,oh shit, something bad's gonna
happen because the music tellsus that that's happening.
But the dot the teacher doesn'tknow that.
He's just like, yeah, come onout, little guy.
Well, it like grabs his arm andwe don't see what happens next.
But Billy comes by to see Mr.
Hanson because Mr.
(19:02):
Hansen had called to tell himthat it had hatched.
So Billy's like comes by theschool and finds him like mostly
under a desk with a syringe inhis ass and dead.
So the black guy dies first.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
Only black guy.
Yeah.
The only black guy is now dead.
Was the Snickers productplacement?
Probably.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
But actually, maybe not, because I don't know how I
don't know if I actually saw thelow the logo or if I just know
it was a Snickers.
Gotcha.
Like there was definitely someproduct, like there was a Burger
King, but I don't know about theSnickers.
Anyway, so he's like, oh no, mymom, because she's there with
five of these, right?
Well, first, oh, first he likebattles the thing and like it
(19:41):
like scratches his hand and likejump scares him a bunch of
times.
And like it's clearly likemalicious.
So oh no, my mom.
He calls his mom and she hasmeanwhile like come up.
He lives like he sleeps in theattic, in like a attic bedroom.
And so she's gone up and seenthat they're all cracked, and
like he calls and she answersthe phone up in his room, and
(20:02):
he's like, Mom, get out of thehouse.
One of them cuts the fucktelephone line while they're
talking.
So she goes down and like shegoes mama bear on these guys and
kills one of them in themicrowave, like you remember,
kills one of them with a kitchenknife, like psycho, like Norman
Bates style, and kills one ofthem by like shoving it into
some sort of like mixer or likeit's a Pelzer.
(20:24):
Invention, but imagine like anopen bowl blender, and that's
how she kills that one.
So there's like green goo allover.
So she's now taken out three ofthe five.
Well, I guess there's sixbecause there's the one, oh,
that they killed Mr.
Hansen.
So, I mean, good on her.
But then one was like hiding inthe Christmas tree, and the
Christmas, like it's in theChristmas tree, and so the tree
(20:47):
kind of attacks her at onepoint.
I feel like there's a metaphorin that.
And the gremlin has like a scarfor something around her neck and
is like choking her just whenBilly gets there.
And Billy like takes this swordthat had been hanging on the
wall and like cuts its head offand it goes into the fire, and
that's really gross.
And so now there's only one leftat their house.
(21:09):
Stripe.
Stripe.
And it runs off into the snow.
So Billy takes mom to theneighbors who's a doctor and
drops her off and then goes offwith the sword to try and get
stripe.
He follows him into the YMCAwhere Stripe ends up jumping in
the pool.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
There's like green like smoke and lights and
everything from like all of thebecause that's how they
reproduce.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
So Billy goes to the cops, and the cops are like like
the worst stereotypes aboutcops.
Well, maybe not the worstbecause we don't actually see
them beat black people.
But like that's not astereotype.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
That's just true.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Like the worst kind of like incompetent, drunken,
don't believe you kind ofstereotypes about cops is these
guys, right?
So like they are actively drunk.
They do not believe him, ofcourse.
He even shows them gizmo andthey still don't believe him.
Then they get calls.
So while he's trying to convincethe cops to do something,
because there's going to behundreds, if not thousands, of
(22:16):
these things because Stripejumped in the pool.
Mr.
Futterman, they get to Mr.
Futterman's house and they'relike on the TV antenna and like
messing up with his TV.
And he's like, this damn foreignthing.
I told you we should have boughtan American TV.
So he goes out to check theantenna and he looks up at the
roof and then he hears somethingin his garage.
And now we've seen him before.
He drives a Kentucky harvestertractor.
(22:38):
Like that's what he drives ashis vehicle to get around town.
unknown (22:42):
What?
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the gremlins are driving it.
And he actually had he gave usthe word gremlin earlier because
he said, you can't trust foreigncars because they put gremlins
in them.
Like there are gremlins in themachinery.
And then he is killed.
He and his wife are killed byGremlins driving his Kentucky
harvester right into his houseand over him and his wife.
(23:05):
There's this scene with a wholebunch of them like in the bar
where Kate is actually stilllike she's trying, she's like
serving them to try and likestay alive.
And they're like, it is likethey committed to the bit.
Like, I don't know where theycame up with this tiny clothing,
but like, and this is where Ithink some of the accusations of
gremlins being black folks comefrom.
(23:26):
Like they're sitting around likegangsters, and like at one point
they're like playing poker, andthat definitely looks more like
the mob, like Italian gangsterkind of stereotypes.
Stripe is in the center, andlike two of them are sitting on
the side with like aces on theirears, like on a cheat, and
there's one dressed up like awoman next to Stripe, like in a
(23:47):
wig with lipstick and stuff.
But then there are others whohave like sunglasses and like
caps down over their eyes andother ways in which it's like
1980s fashion from black culturein this bar, and they're like
like lying under the tap, likeholding the beer tap like open
into their open mouth, or likesmoking three cigarettes at
(24:09):
once.
And like that's not necessarily,you know, coded as black, but it
is coded as like bad.
Yeah.
And like undesirable.
Kate manages to get out when sherealizes that they don't like
bright light, and she uses aanother camera with flash to
kind of work her way out of thebar.
(24:31):
And then Billy comes and getsher in his car, which doesn't
work.
And these guys are everywhere.
The cops see what's happeningand they are total cowards.
And the deputy's like, pleasestart the car.
I would very much like to goback to the station now.
Meanwhile, the gremlins have cutthe brake line.
They end up flipping their car.
The gremlins have like messedwith the traffic lights so that
(24:53):
it's green on all sides, causinglike car accidents, total
shenanigans all over the town,with like a moderately high body
count, including Mrs.
Dangle, who's across betweenMrs.
Gulch and Mr.
Potter.
So she uses one of those likestair chairs, stair lift chairs.
(25:13):
Oh, I remember that.
I remember that.
Yeah.
She has a whole bunch of cats,each named after a different
currency.
Like Dollar Bill is one of hercats, and like yen is one of her
cats or something.
I don't remember exactly, butthey're named after currencies.
And she's got lots of them.
And anyway, she hears Carol'scarolers and she's like, I hate
(25:35):
carolers.
I told you all to stay away.
And she comes out and it'sgremlins.
And like again, they havecommitted to the bit and they're
wearing like little coats andthings and have like sheet music
and like earmuffs and stuff.
And they're singing like yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, like to their
own tune, but like consultingtheir sheet music.
unknown (25:54):
I don't know what the hell.
SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
Anyway, she freaks F out, goes inside, and is like,
you're not gonna get me, you'renot gonna get me.
And she like gets on her stairchairlift, but meanwhile, one of
them has like messed with it andlike changed the speed, so it
goes up really, really fast andit jacks her out a window at the
top of the stairs.
So the final showdown, no, kindof the final showdown, Kate and
(26:19):
Billy have come out of whereverthey were, and there's the
streets are empty.
And she's like, Where are theyall?
And he says, Well, it's gonna belight soon.
I'm sure they're all somewheredark.
And so they're in the movietheater.
And somehow they managed to getone of the reels working for
Snow White, and it's like thework song, and they friggin'
love it.
The theater is full of thesegremlins, and it looks like the
(26:41):
Muppet Show.
Like when you saw a view of theaudience of the Muppet Show,
Billy and Kate burn down thetheater.
They kill all the gremlinsexcept for Stripe, who had left
to go get some candy that he sawsign in the department store.
So the final showdown is in thedepartment store.
And Stripe almost wins.
Like he hurts Billy real bad.
(27:03):
But Gizmo drives that little carthat you remember and manages to
open the skylights and kill himwith the sunlight, just as he
was getting in a little fountainto like start all over again.
Dad shows up at the last minute,like just in time to watch the
like death of Stripe.
And they all go home.
(27:24):
They're like watching TV where anews reporter is blaming mass
hysteria on all of the reportsof the little green men.
When the grandfather from thestore from the very beginning
shows up at the door and islike, well, the dad says this is
the man I bought gizmo from.
And the grandfather's like, botis an interesting use of that
(27:45):
word.
He gives the money back, hetakes gizmo, he says, Your
society did to Mogwai what youdo to everything.
You every all of nature's gifts,all of nature's gifts.
You don't understand, you're notready.
And he leaves with gizmo, whodoes say bye, Billy.
And he also says, bye, woofwoofto Barney.
(28:06):
The final scene has anothervoiceover from Pelzer from the
dad saying, like, if ever yourTV's on the fritz or your
washing machine isn't working,like turn all the turn on all
the lights because there mightbe a gremlin or something like
that, which is like maybe notthe lesson.
And then like the last visual isthis old man walking away
(28:26):
holding the box with the Mogwaiin it.
So once again, I did a terriblejob doing a synopsis, but
there's just, there's actuallyso much in this movie.
I didn't even say, and Iactually want to, Kate hates
Christmas.
And at one point, she deliversthis line about how people get
depressed at Christmas.
Well, some people are openingpresents, others are opening
(28:47):
their wrists.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
And like, Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Whoa, this is not it's a wonderful life.
And then we later find out thatpart of the reason she hates
Christmas is her dad died atChristmas.
He didn't just die at Christmas,he was trying to surprise them
by coming down the chimneydressed as Santa Claus and
slipped and broke his neck.
And she found him when she lit afire a couple days later and
smelled something.
So, like, holy fucking shit,this is dark.
(29:13):
What the hell?
And it's interesting when shesays she hates Christmas, like
this is in the middle of themovie, so before before they've
turned into bad.
And Billy's like, how can youhate Christmas?
Are you Hindu or something?
unknown (29:28):
Like, what?
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
This movie passes back Dell Test, but just barely.
Mrs.
Dingle and Mrs.
Harris talk about the rent thatis owned.
That's it, pretty much.
Whee! It passes that very lowbar.
Low bar.
I think there was an intentionallike send up of the xenophobia,
maybe because Mr.
(29:55):
Futterman is so ridiculous.
We do have some sympathy for himbecause he's meant to be a World
War II vet who maybe has somePTSD.
We learn later that he's losthis job and like things just
have been hard for him.
And that's actually potentiallywhere the word gremlins comes
from, because that was a thingthat World War II pilots would
talk about.
That's what they would theywould blame mechanical failure
(30:15):
on.
There is apparently not a mucholder tradition than that.
Roll doll then brought it intothe public consciousness with a
book that he wrote.
And then that Twilight Zone withthe with William Shatner with
the thing on the wing.
So that very specific, likeactually plain thing and the
word gremlin, like that thenalso does come from this guy,
Mr.
Futterman.
But his xenophobia is soridiculous and over the top that
(30:40):
makes me think that there wassort of an intentional kind of
send-up of that by making makingthat makes me much more
sympathetic to him being like sonasty about a Volkswagen.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
The Volkswagen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
If he's a World War II vet, yeah.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
But he's that way abouteverything.
Yeah.
Like the TV and everything.
I mean, he's meant to beridiculous, but slightly
sympathetic.
The Mogwai gizmo came from anAsian, almost over-the-top Asian
character.
He's like just on the edge ofcaricature.
(31:14):
And so it's close enough that Ican't tell if it was on purpose
or not.
You know what I mean?
And so that piece of it as well,like makes me think that maybe
there was an intentional kind ofsend-up of that mistrust.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
Kind of like um big trouble in little China.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Yeah, exactly.
Except then, like the thing, thethings that suburbanites fear
about like outsiders like movinginto their neighborhoods and
like destroying property values,like like pushing against their
way of life, like that actuallylike then happens.
(31:51):
I mean, even like the mom, whenshe fights off those three in
her kitchen that you rememberwith the microwave, she says,
get out of my kitchen.
You know, like it's very likeit's very nimble.
Yes.
Yes.
I have to admit, I don't knowthat I would have seen this as
racism if I hadn't read fromother commentators saying that
these gremlins represent blackfolks.
(32:13):
I don't think I would have seenit.
But once it's pointed out, I'mlike, oh yeah, I see what
they're getting at.
You know, like I see wherethey're going with this
potentially.
Especially like in the barscene, Dante and Columbus were
just having a blast.
Right.
Like it didn't matter if it madesense.
We see one gremlin in like legwarmers like breakdancing, and
(32:35):
we see them like hanging fromthe fans and like they're
wearing sunglasses.
Like another one like has a tinytrench coat and like flashes
Kate.
Most of them are naked, so Idon't know what he's flashing,
but like the gag, the visual gagwith the tiny clothing, like
well, and none of that makessense because where would they
have gotten the clothing?
(32:55):
Like this is it's all just sortof magical realism with the fact
of the gremlins, you know?
And the the movie makers arejust enjoying themselves.
Totally.
They were just having a goodtime and there are a lot of
sight gags.
And then again, in the finalshowdown in the department
store, again, now this one, Ithink when it's just Stripe and
(33:17):
Billy, like Gremlin a mono,gremlin ah human, then that's
where like there's someadditional sort of consumerism
stuff, right?
Because like Kate is trying toturn on the lights, and so she's
hitting all these buttons, andso all these like attention,
Christmas shoppers, is likecoming over the loudspeaker, and
(33:38):
like there's all this stuff andtoys, and there are so many
references to other movies.
So there's a reference toSpielberg's E.T.
there, where Billy walks past arow of like stuffed animals, and
there are Bugs Bunnies and otherlike recognizable characters,
including a little E.T.
doll that then Stripe kind ofpushes them aside, and we see
(33:59):
his face amidst the stuffedanimals.
And there are guns, like Stripetries to shoot him.
He takes a chainsaw to him andlike almost gets him with a
chainsaw, like Billy's holdinglike a baseball bat that gets
all chewed up, like to protecthimself from this chainsaw.
Like it's potentially gruesome.
Like, yeah, it's really intense.
And apparently, one of thecommentators said the original
(34:21):
script had the mom getdecapitated in the Christmas
tree scene.
And Columbus was like, no, DonJoe, Joe, like scale it back,
scale it back.
Mom lives.
unknown (34:30):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (34:32):
So I feel like there's something about
consumerism and capitalism andgreed.
Like the there's a especiallylike the absurdity of the way
that the like woman who is somean to the entire apparently
the entire town owes her, youknow, owes her rent.
And the way she gets sort ofthrown out a window, she's
(34:55):
Scrooge, but she doesn't get achance to redeem herself.
She just gets thrown out awindow.
SPEAKER_00 (35:01):
But she gets thrown out a window by this force that
everybody is terrified of andhates.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Yeah.
Who also seem to be able to readbecause they see that it says
Dingle Real Estate, and one ofthem goes, ah, dingle.
Like, I like their intelligenceis very curious as well.
Like, I I don't reallyunderstand the rules of their
intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
That's part of, I mean, like, that's part of what
like this film is not supposedto hang together.
It's not supposed to.
What they represent is all overthe place.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
Like one commentator sort of named all the different
or several different things thatthey represent, like immigrants
or black folks, or sex, maybe?
Like, which I didn't follow muchat all, but maybe they all
represent Billy's lust.
I mean, we they do flash his theobject of his interest.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
So and there's something about the fact that
he's like a young adult whostill lives at home, and there's
like the like there's thereproduction aspect of it, and
the like I mean, there's there'sthe curiosity aspect.
I mean, there's there'ssomething there.
Yeah.
And it is like it's all over theplace.
You know, obviously thefilmmakers, they were having fun
(36:13):
with it, and they like theydidn't care, which is fine.
Like it's fine.
It doesn't have to make sense.
It's like this is entertainment.
But because they didn't reallyhave a cohesive idea of what it
meant, some things can slip in.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
Right.
And it's interesting when I lookat the actual like story
construction construction ofthis film, right?
Because it's almost it was Ithink they were playing with
genres, right?
So that the first act when wefirst meet Mowgli, like it's
kind of E.T., right?
And there's just this like aweand wonder at this this life
form that's out of this world.
(36:52):
And then the second act, whichis when they're all when they're
in the pupil stages, they're inthe cocoons, like it's heading
toward horror, right?
And we don't know which way it'sgonna go.
And it could have gone likefull-on horror, but instead it
went with this sort of campy,like visual gag horror, which
(37:12):
there's actually kind of a highbody count, but there's not
actually like they're notgruesome, and none of them
really like have any kind of anemotional impact.
I think actually Kate's storyabout her father has the most
emotional impact as a death,which happened when she was nine
(37:35):
and she's meant to be in herearly twenties.
That third act is this sort oflike just anarchic gag that was
done completely like what's theword for analog effects?
Like just physical effects.
Like there were there were somethere which is kind of
(37:57):
remarkable.
Like there I there's a reasonthat I saw the Muppets in that
theater scene.
Like didn't have anything to dowith this?
Not as far as I know.
Okay, but they're all puppetsand marionettes, and like the
actual visual effects are alljust physical effects, they're
not digital, which is I mean, insome ways, shows, you know, from
(38:21):
a contemporary viewer, in someways I'm like, oh yeah, I see
that.
But once it's actually like inthe thick of it, I was in it.
I was totally in it.
I wasn't like, oh, that's just apuppet.
Like I was like, oh shit, what'sgonna happen now?
Run away, run away, get out ofthe house.
Like I was really in it.
(38:44):
It's fascinating to me thatlike, especially when I when I
think about it as genre, andthen I think about the movies
that they make direct referenceto where we actually see footage
of It's a Wonderful Life,Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
There's another one of likeGizmo watches some old film of
like a racer or like race cars,which is then he's like making
the same noise he makes when hedrives that little pink Barbie
(39:05):
car or whatever it's supposed tobe.
And then Snow White as well withthe visual effects of Snow
White.
There's something, it's almostlike a love letter to movies.
I'm sure there are other Eastereggs in there that I missed that
because I'm not I'm a movieviewer, but not like a cinephile
in the way that I think I have afeeling that cinephiles watch
(39:26):
this movie and they're like, oh,look at that.
Oh, that oh, there's that thing.
Probably even in 1984, well,definitely even especially in
1984 when it was made, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
It makes me think of like Jordan Peel because like he
got his start in comedy, buthorror was always his first
love.
And watching his movies, if youare especially someone who loves
horror films, you can see theinfluences of like the major
horror films.
If it's similar to that, wherelike this is an homage to all
(39:56):
these films, but it's also likewhen you were saying, because
you're talking about how Mrs.
Dingle is kind of like a mashupof Mrs.
Gulch and um Mr.
Picotter and Scrooge.
Yeah.
And so it's kind of like, youknow, like what if I made that
movie but then like made ittotally camp and scary?
And like Yeah, like what if Itook It's a Wonderful Life and
(40:16):
made it a horror film?
Yeah, exactly.
And so, like, there there'ssomething well, we talked a
little bit about this with uhRocky Horror.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
picture show where you know you just take all see
the influences see theinfluences build on them and
then you create something thatis completely bonkers and
totally new even though it's notexactly yeah yeah I yeah and I
wonder what effect thoseinfluence have on then the sort
of subtext which is it a send upor is it reifying like the
(40:48):
xenophobia and the not in mybackyard and the like because
invasion of the body snatchers Ithink was about like Red Scare
right when it was made.
So when the kind of culturalsubtext of the piece of media
that is influencing you, likehow does that then influence
your cultural subtext?
(41:08):
I think that's a reallyinteresting question.
Yeah.
I mean it's also the case thatit's a wonderful life gets real
dark before it gets gratefulagain.
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
Well and it's a wonderful life Bedford Falls is
entirely white.
Oh gosh that's how communitieswere in the 40s there was
redlining and you know the VAbenefits were not for black
soldiers and all of that.
I mean so I mean the fact thatthere even was one black guy to
(41:38):
die first was actually progressprobably in 1984 honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
I mean right I don't know although that is a horror
genre is I mean that is a horrorcliche isn't it that the black
guy dies first?
Yeah but when did that start?
SPEAKER_00 (41:52):
I have no idea I don't I don't either this is as
horror as I get yeah I wouldhave to do some research I don't
know when that cliche began ifthat began in the 70s if that
began in the 80s but it did notit would not have been earlier
than like I think the 70s.
As of the 60s I don't know howmuch horror there was where
(42:15):
people there was a huge bodycount.
Yeah enough of a body count forthe black guy to die first or
for there to be a multiple likea diverse cast even right right
yeah so you had a couple otherthings that you you wanted to
talk about.
You you mentioned somethingbefore we got started about
environmentalism.
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
Well yeah because I think that the final thing that
the grandfather says to thePelsers is and he said this is
interesting too he says youtaught Mogwai to watch
television and then he says youdid to Mogwai what you do to all
(42:54):
of nature's gifts.
I said this earlier you don'tunderstand you're not ready and
as he's leaving he looks atBilly because the mo because
Gizmo wants to say goodbye toBilly specifically the
grandfather can understand whathe has to say and he says to
Billy you might be ready one dayso there seems to be like the
fact that he needs nature'sgifts like it feels like maybe
(43:18):
there was an intention of somesort of environmentalism like
we're not following the rulesand like mayhem is happening.
But it's it also feels a littlelike too little too late like
like almost kind of like slappedon at the end in order for that
like I don't think that'sactually the lesson of the movie
(43:39):
I don't think but I don't knowlike it's like what they wanted
the lesson of the movie to bebut I'm not sure they succeeded
in giving us that.
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Well and I don't know like nature's gifts
like 'cause it I mean because itfeels like this is more about
like yes like the Mogwai is issupposed to be this creature
natural creature naturalcreature.
But it feels like it's moreabout like you took something
from another culture that youdidn't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
Yeah it does it definitely does feel like more
like appropriation.
Although I g if I look back ifI'm looking for evidence of that
like the all of Pelzer'sinventions are like overly
complicated shit.
Right?
Like the mom keeps trying to usethese like remote controls like
to answer the phone that's likethree feet away from her.
She could just answer it.
You know, or like to dim thelights.
(44:31):
Again it's three feet awaythere's this like juicer that
like spits pulp orange pulpeverywhere and like a coffee
maker that makes sludge thatlike what's wrong with your
coffee maker man?
You know like so he likeovercomplicates things and
overcomplicates nature's gift.
Maybe I could make an anargument that is part of the
case.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
It feels sort of forced it feels sort of forced
yeah well and then is he talkingjust directly to Rand Pelzer?
SPEAKER_01 (44:59):
Like you or is he saying you white folks he says
you did what your society does.
He actually specifically saysyour society.
So I think he's talking to whitefolks.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Okay.
But or Western culture moregenerally well and he taught you
taught them to watch television.
Like that's interesting.
Is that a like aanti-consumerism thing,
anti-capitalism?
SPEAKER_01 (45:22):
Yeah I don't know it's really interesting given
how like lovingly this movietreats other movies it is the
case that there's a TV in everyroom in these folks' house which
I have no idea how they affordthat because clearly his
inventions aren't working.
Yeah.
And she seems to be a homemaker.
He does work at the bank but thekid works at the bank but
anyway.
How long has he been doing that?
I mean he's in this onlytwenties yeah yeah so anyway I
(45:47):
think that's all I have time forso I'm gonna have to record a
shit I forgot to say.
But let me see if I can reflectback what I did say which is
that this movie does passbackdel but it's a very low bar.
There's not none but there's nota whole lot of women represented
here.
There's mom and there's Kate andthere are other like extras and
the bad guy sort of DeagleDingle whatever her name is and
(46:11):
of course she has the worstpossible like Mrs.
SPEAKER_00 (46:13):
Dingle.
Yeah yeah if you married a manwhose last name was Dingle
wouldn't you keep your maidenname?
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
I mean I don't know when this was supposed to be if
it's supposed to be the 80s orearlier but like people didn't
do that much.
SPEAKER_00 (46:27):
Anyway Cruella Deville made her husband take
the Deville name because she's areal person and that really
happened.
Because she didn't want theDeville name to die out.
So that was in the 50s.
And I know that was proof of howawful she was but still she was
a villain.
SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
Okay.
This movie has a lot of subtextabout xenophobia and it's
unclear to me how it actuallyshakes out.
Like if it's just reflectingxenophobia of the time or if it
is in fact kind of trying tocritique xenophobia.
The man from whose speech we getthe most xenophobia, Mr.
(47:08):
Futterman, who's constantlycomplaining about foreign-made
things and by extensionforeigners, is ridiculous and
also a little sympatheticbecause he's a World War II vet.
He also dies while when gremlinsare driving his American made
whatever it is tractor.
So it's complicated.
There are other commentators whoI think have an argument to be
(47:33):
made that the gremlinsthemselves represent black folks
and Kingston Falls are the whitesuburbanites who are so afraid
of invasion, I'm putting quotesaround that word and lowering of
property value and behavior thatlike the urban again quotes
behavior that they think isagainst their way of life.
(47:54):
I would not have seen that if Ihadn't read that from another
commentator, but once I read itI see why they make the argument
there's a commentary aboutenvironmentalism and following
the rules of like taking care ofso-called nature's gifts that
the movie makers gave us throughthe dialogue that I think is
maybe a little misplaced fromthe actual action of the film.
(48:16):
It seems to me more aboutcultural appropriation and and
the sort of Western like I wantthis give it to me how much does
it cost that like you know wecould point to I don't know the
British Museum or whatever likewhatever the sort of Western
(48:36):
appropriation of other culturesculture behavior artifacts pets
the movie makers clearly lovemovies.
I mean that's why they went intowhat they went into and that
shows through there are specificmovies whose references we see
like because clips of themappear, including It's a
Wonderful Life, Invasion of theBody Snatchers, and Disney Snow
(48:59):
White.
But there are other referencesto movies throughout that so
that we get sort of in thesethree acts, it's almost like
three separate genres, which isreally I think really
interesting when we think aboutit as like a storytelling way of
going and like while it wasfunny and that there's like a
lot of sight gags with theinexplicable tiny clothing that
(49:21):
these little gremlins wear, it'salso like super funny.
Like this is one where much likeother horror films where we
talked about where the villainsget a lot more like appreciation
on the other side than theheroes like that's the case here
because those guys are funny,right?
Like in their leg warmers andtheir tiny trench coats or
whatever the hell they'rewearing like they're funny.
(49:44):
There's a reason that like weall have them in our heads I
think we talked as we often doabout comedy and horror I still
found it like blood pressureraising.
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
There's a reason why dad was upset about having taken
us to it.
SPEAKER_01 (50:00):
Even with the sort of horror and like scare aspects
of it.
And we've talked about thatbefore at great length.
We didn't so much today but Ithink it's worth naming there's
definitely some like intendedcritique of capitalism or at
least of greed in the person ofMrs.
Dingle who gets thrown out awindow and especially in the
context of a Christmas movie, Ithink there's definitely some
(50:23):
critique of greed, possiblycapitalism, possibly
consumerism, although those allthose both are slightly more
fuzzy in my head because of whodoes and doesn't pay
consequences namely Mr.
Pelzer, the dad who steals slashbuys the Mogwai in the first
place faces no consequenceswhatsoever to himself.
(50:45):
So that's worth noting.
And lastly we briefly mentionedthe impact of this movie that
you named it in the beginningthat this is one of the movies
that caused the FCC to establishthe PG 13 rating.
Indiana Jones and the Temple ofDoom was the other which came
out just a few weeks before itwas the same summer.
That's all I got for thisChristmas movie.
(51:06):
Well actually it's not I havemore but that's all I have time
for for this Christmas movie.
So what are you bringing me nextweek?
SPEAKER_00 (51:16):
Oh I've never seen that looking forward delightful
or at least it was when I saw itthe first time see then words
but see you then this show is alabor of love but that doesn't
make it free to produce if youenjoy it even half as much as we
do please consider helping tokeep us overthinking.
SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
You can support us at our Patreon there's a link in
the show notes or leave apositive review so others can
find us.
And of course share the showwith your people thanks for
listening our theme music isProfessor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod
from Incompotech.com find fullmusic credits in the show notes.
(51:58):
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time remember popculture is still culture and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head
The movie makers clearly love movies.
I mean, that's why they wentinto what they went into.
And that shows through.
There are specific movies whosereferences we see, like because
clips of them appear, includingIt's a Wonderful Life, Invasion
of the Body Snatchers, andDisney Snow White.
But there are other referencesto movies throughout that, so
(00:44):
that we get sort of in thesethree acts, it's almost like
three separate genres, which isreally, I think, really
interesting.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's just
up culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
(01:08):
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture, and shouldn't you know
what's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll betalking about the 1984 film
Gremlins with my sister, EmilyGuyberkin, and with you.
Let's dive in.
(01:29):
And we saw this together.
So I know you saw this movie.
So tell me what's in your headabout it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
So this is one where you said recently that I like
remember entire plots of moviesand you just remember how they
made you feel.
This is one where I don't reallyhave that much of a memory.
I there are some things I knowabout it.
I know that this movie scaredthe crap out of us because I
know that this is the movie thatmade dad decide that if he took
(01:54):
us to the movies, he would gosee it first before he took us
to see it.
Which, hypocrite much, Mr.
Poltergeist.
I remember like Gizmo, the goodgremlin, like driving a little
toy car and being super cute.
(02:16):
I remember like Stripe, like thebad gremlin, and like something
about one of them in amicrowave.
I had completely forgotten thatit was set at Christmas until
something reminded me of that.
I remember that there were rulesabout not feeding the gremlins
(02:36):
after midnight and not gettingthem wet.
And I kind of remember that theGremlin was a gift, like a
Christmas gift it must havebeen, that the main character's
father got in like Chinatown orsomething.
(02:58):
And that's about the extent ofit.
That's like 60% of the plot thatyou remember.
Oh, and the other thing, I knowthat this is apparently there's
one other movie, but this is oneof the two movies that is the
reason why we have PG 13.
Yeah.
Because dad was taking us, Iwould have been what, five and
you were eight.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
It was 1984.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Yeah.
So why are we talking about thistoday?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Well, we're talking about it right now because it is
in fact a Christmas movie.
So this and last week's episodeabout love actually are our
double-barreled Christmasepisodes this year.
It was on the list because,yeah, it was one of those ones
that we watched as kids thatlike I remember it scaring us.
And but I also remember all ofthe like merchandising around it
(03:42):
and how like Gizmo was like,like, I think we had a toy of
him in that little pink car whenwe were that age.
So that's why I was on the listoriginally, and that's why we're
doing it right now.
So let me give you somepostcards from The Destination.
Like this film has surprisinglya lot in it.
I didn't remember until I justre-watched it that Steven
(04:04):
Spielberg is the executiveproducer, directed by Chris
Columbus and written by JoeDante.
Huh.
Because Chris Columbus directedthe first Harry Potter film.
He has a long filmography.
Yeah.
He's very prolific in sort ofthe like oove that Deep Thoughts
covers.
So, and I didn't remember any ofthat.
(04:25):
I want to talk about the waythat like other movies, like
that references old movies tokind of like make you expect
something and then subvert whatyou're expecting.
Those include It's a WonderfulLife and Invasion of the Body
Snatchers, and even StevenSpielberg's own ET a little bit.
I also want to talk about likeit seems to have some cultural
(04:47):
commentary, possibly aboutxenophobia, about consumerism
slash capitalism, and likegreed, and about different
commentators have differentideas about what the gremlins
represent.
So I want to spend some timetalking about that.
There are some commentators,multiple commentators who see
the gremlins as stand-ins forblack folks, like moving into
(05:10):
the suburbs and like have calledit a very racist movie as a
result.
So I want to like spend sometime unpacking that.
There's like a bunch of shit totalk about with the rules that
you mentioned.
Like there is actually oneother, and like just the nature
of this species that I'm notgonna spend a whole lot of time
on because a lot of people havegone real deep on that and
they'll do a better job than Iwill anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
But I will just say don't feed them after midnight
at some point, going likeEastern time, central time.
unknown (05:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
When does it reset?
Because it's always aftermidnight.
Like, yeah.
And apparently in Gremlins 2,Columbus does address that
somehow.
I didn't go into that.
I didn't rewatch the sequels.
This is only talking about thefirst movie.
So, and I don't want to spendtoo long on that because I think
a lot of ink, well, pixels havebeen spilled on that.
(06:00):
And those folks did a lot moreresearch and thinking than I'm I
did.
So I'm just gonna let them haveit.
I do want to unpack like what dothe Kremlins gremlins represent
and like what is the kind ofwhether intentional or
unintentional commentaryhappening here.
But let me start with filling inthe plot.
You really do remember like 60%of it.
(06:21):
That is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
I was five.
I've not seen it since.
That was 41 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
I know.
So we first meet throughvoiceover, Rand Randolph,
Randall, I don't know, Rand.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
He goes by Rand Pelzer.
Is that intentional, like AynRand, do you think?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
I don't know.
So he's an inventor.
And he says he's in Chinatown tomaybe sell some of his stuff and
maybe get a Christmas presentfor his kid.
So he goes down, like down thesestairs, and this young boy,
Chinese boy, is he's following.
Rand is white.
(07:07):
He's following this youngChinese boy, and he's like,
Where are you taking me?
And he says, This is it.
He says, This is yourgrandfather's store.
Yes.
So it's this like like cliched,like, you know, very full
curiosity shop.
Grandfather, and that's the onlyname he has even in the credits,
is this like elderly Chinese manwith two different colored eyes,
(07:28):
like smoking a long pipe.
And he's looking around at allthe different stuff, like dried
animals and like tarantulas andlike gold dragons, and like, I
don't know, this sort of likeorientalism.
And I'm I'm using that word veryintentionally.
Xenophobia much.
Yeah.
Stuff that like that like whitefolks are expecting to find in
an underground shop, right?
(07:48):
And he tries to sell thegrandfather the this bathroom
buddy, which is like, imaginelike a Swiss army knife, but
with bathroom tools.
But then when he presses thebutton that's supposed to put
the toothpaste on thetoothbrush, it like squirts all
over him.
He's not a good inventor.
We establish that immediately.
He hears some like kind ofcooing and goes to find what it
(08:09):
is, and it's this littlecreature, which we learn is
called a mogwai, which RogerEbert said looks like a cross
between Yoda and an ewok and akitten, which I think is
actually fairly accurate.
It's like a it's a movingstuffed animal.
(08:29):
The Furby dolls were famouslybased on it and like really
Warner Brothers sued them.
I didn't know that.
The Furby dolls being likelooking just like Gizmo.
So he says, I have to have it.
You know, so very like VerucaSalt, like, I have to have it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
I want it now.
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Yeah.
He says, I'll give you a hundredbucks for it.
He puts a hundred dollar billdown on the counter, and the old
man's like, no, it's not forsale.
And the little kid, you see, thelittle kid, the boy who had
shown him down into the thing,his eyes widen at the$100 bill.
He says, I have to, uh,$200.
And the old man says, It's notfor sale.
With Mogwai comes greatresponsibility and you can't
(09:11):
handle it.
And he walks away.
And the kid says, Go outside andwait for me.
So the kid, unlike under hisgrandfather's nose, sells him
the mogwai.
So meanwhile, we meet Billy, hisson, Billy Pelzer, who is in his
early 20s, still living at home,working as a bank teller.
(09:33):
He drives a little VolkswagenBeetle that doesn't drive.
It's snowy.
They're in Kingston Falls, andwe immediately meet their
neighbor, Mr.
Futterman, who says KingstonFalls, New York?
They don't say what state.
Okay.
Mr.
Futterman says, You can't trustthese foreign cars.
That's why I only buy thingsmade in America.
(09:53):
And like he goes on and on abouthow things foreign manufacturing
can't be trusted.
But Billy has to get to work, sohe walks with his dog, who's
called Barney, who doesn't needa leash, and he goes and he
works in a bank as a bankteller.
The dog comes with him and likehides under his little desk
(10:14):
while he's at the bank.
I don't really get that.
We also meet his love interest,whose name is Kate, played by
Phoebe Cates, who has him sign apetition because they're trying
to save a bar, I think, or somesort of establishment that Mrs.
Dingle wants to not renew thelease on.
And Billy says, Oh, them too.
(10:36):
So now we've established Mrs.
Dingle is like a mean landlady.
She marches into the bankcarrying a giant snowman head,
like ceramic snowman head.
And we see her like walking downthe street to get to the bank,
and she's like very mean.
Like somebody says, Goodmorning, Mrs.
Dingle.
And she says, What's good aboutit?
(10:57):
And then as she's on her wayinto the bank, like a woman with
her two kids is like, Oh, Mrs.
Dingle, my husband got a job andI've been taking up side sewing
projects.
And she says, I don't, Mrs.
Harris, what why are you tellingme this?
And she says, just give us alittle more time and we'll have
the money for the rent.
And she says, It's my job andthe bank's job to make money.
(11:19):
And Mrs.
Harris says, It's Christmastime.
And Mrs.
Ding and Mrs.
Dingle says, Well, then I guessyou know what to ask for Santa
for.
So she's like real nasty.
So we establish that, right?
We established that prettyquickly.
The snowman head is someBavarian import that Barney the
(11:41):
dog broke, and she's coming toconfront Billy about it.
He says, I'll pay you for it.
She says, I don't want yourmoney.
I want your dog.
Well, the dog, who apparentlyunderstands English, unties his
little leash that's got him liketied up underneath of the teller
table and like jumps at her andhe almost gets fired, but he
doesn't get fired.
We learn.
So this is all like this is allin the first few minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
Yeah, this is Wizard of Oz stuff, it sounds totally.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah.
She very much, Mrs.
Dingle very much is the Mrs.
Gulch when she's very much Mrs.
Gulch.
Like the same vibe, the sameenergy, even of similar look.
We learn that Billy is a artist.
He's like a cartoonist.
And in fact, apparently, likewhen he's sitting at a bar at
the bar drawing where Kate worksin the evenings, Chuck Jones is
(12:27):
sitting next to him.
That's what one of thecommentators I was reading said,
which is really interesting.
Anyway, we see Kate and Billyinteract and like somebody else
from the bank, like giving Billya hard time about this guy who's
played by a famous actor, JudgeReinhold.
He says how he's he's like only23 and he's already a junior
(12:49):
vice president and he's gonna bea millionaire by the time he's
30 or so.
I don't know.
He's like he's an asshole whowas greedy.
We go home, we meet Billy's mom,who is chopping onions and
watching It's a Wonderful Lifeon a little tube TV in the
kitchen.
And she's crying, I'm guessing.
Yes.
(13:09):
And she's chopped about, I don'tknow, like four onions.
Like one is one is led to himlike believe that maybe she got
distracted by the movie and justchopped more than she intended
because there's like a mountainof onions.
Anyway, there are inventions allover the kitchen that do not
work, that are the dad'sinventions.
(13:30):
He comes home with the present.
We open the present.
Oh my God, it's so cute.
The dad has named has beencalling him Gizmos.
Now we know his name.
The three rules, which thelittle boy told the dad when he
gave him the box with it, thethree rules are number one, keep
it away from bright light,especially sunlight.
Sunlight will kill it.
(13:52):
Number two, don't ever get itwet.
You don't give it water todrink, you don't get it wet.
You definitely do not give it abath.
And number three is that youdon't feed it after midnight.
The dad forgets those rules, butthe mom goes to take a picture
of them with gizmo and itflashes and he and little gizmo
freaks out.
So then dad remembers to tellthe rules.
(14:13):
Okay, great.
Then we just see the sort of theordinary like Norman Rockwell
town, which we are definitelymeant to see it as a Bedford
Falls.
Yeah.
Since we just saw It's aWonderful Life, right?
We are definitely meant to seeit as Bedford Falls.
It's called Kingston Falls.
It looks a lot like that townfrom It's a Wonderful Life, like
(14:34):
with the Town Square and likethe Burger King and the Sears
and the whatever, all and theand all the people walking
around, they all know eachother, and like it's definitely
meant to be Bedford Falls.
Corey Feldman is a little kid.
Like Corey Feldman is an 11.
Yeah, very briefly.
He works for his dad at theChristmas tree lot, like and has
(14:56):
to wear this stupid Christmastree costume.
He ends up at the Pelzer's houseto deliver their Christmas tree
and is hanging out with Billyand meets Gizmo and like knocks
over some paintbrushes that aresitting in water, and Gizmo gets
wet, and it clearly hurts him.
Like Gizmo is like writhing andstuff.
(15:18):
And then like little puffballspat like fall, like pop up off
of his back and turn into newMogwai.
So now there are six of them.
It's been like 12 hours andthey've already broken one of
the rules.
Two.
Because the light, light, right.
Billy takes one of the new onesto meet his science teacher, Mr.
(15:42):
Hansen, who's a black dude.
Like apparently the only blackdude in Kingston Falls.
Mr.
Hanson is like fascinated bythis.
Billy shows him how itreproduces.
He likes takes an eyedropper andputs a little water on this new
one.
And now there's two.
And Mr.
Hanson says, Hey, can I keep oneof these?
I want to run some tests.
And Billy's like, sure,whatever.
(16:03):
Mr.
Hansen has the thing, and likebasically shenanigans ensue
because both Billy accidentally,well, both of them accidentally,
both Billy and Mr.
Hanson end up breaking the thirdrule and feed them after
midnight.
In Billy's case, it's becauseone of the new ones, Stripe,
they call him that because hehas like a single white stripe
(16:26):
up his head that that almostlooks like a mohawk, has somehow
cut the cord of the digitalclock by Billy's bedside.
And so he's they're acting likethey're super hungry, the five
new ones.
And so he says, Well, it's notmidnight yet, because he looks
at the clock and it's only 1140.
So he goes and gets them thisgiant pleat of chicken wings or
(16:49):
legs.
Like just they're just sittinguncovered in the fridge.
What?
Anyway, and meanwhile at theschool, Mr.
Hansen is there at like 220 inthe morning.
What?
And he I used to teach thatdoesn't happen.
I mean, he is doing experimentson this new form of life, but
(17:11):
still, it's 2.20 in the morning.
Doesn't happen.
He has drawn some blood with asyringe from his little mogwai.
Did not like that, by the way,and left like a half-eaten
sandwich on some tinfoil, likewithin, I guess within arm's
reach, mogwai arm's reach on thetable from the cage where this
thing is.
Meanwhile, Gizmo and Billy hadbeen watching, this is
(17:35):
important.
They'd been watching Invasion ofthe Body Snatchers.
So apparently, what happens ifthey eat after midnight is that
they turn into these likenasty-looking cocoons, which Mr.
Hansen helpfully tells us is thepupil stage, like a butterfly,
Corey Feldman, whose character'sname is Pete, tells us.
So that inside they're goingthrough some sort of
metamorphosis.
(17:57):
When they bust out, they aremore like the xenomorph from
alien than like an ewok.
That's the gremlin.
That's the gremlin.
Right.
They hatch like during class,Mr.
Hansen is showing a film abouthearts, like the organ.
(18:19):
And the he realizes what'shappening, you know, that it's
hatching, but he doesn't want todraw attention to it for his
students.
The bell rings, they leave, andnow he goes and gets the
Snickers and is trying to drawthis thing out.
He like finds where it is undera desk and like has the open
candy bar and sort of holds itunder the desk.
And we hear the gremlin go, yum,yum, which is like the only full
(18:42):
sentence that they ever say.
They do say words otherwise.
And us, the audience, are like,oh shit, something bad's gonna
happen because the music tellsus that that's happening.
But the dot the teacher doesn'tknow that.
He's just like, yeah, come onout, little guy.
Well, it like grabs his arm andwe don't see what happens next.
But Billy comes by to see Mr.
Hanson because Mr.
(19:02):
Hansen had called to tell himthat it had hatched.
So Billy's like comes by theschool and finds him like mostly
under a desk with a syringe inhis ass and dead.
So the black guy dies first.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
Only black guy.
Yeah.
The only black guy is now dead.
Was the Snickers productplacement?
Probably.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
But actually, maybe not, because I don't know how I
don't know if I actually saw thelow the logo or if I just know
it was a Snickers.
Gotcha.
Like there was definitely someproduct, like there was a Burger
King, but I don't know about theSnickers.
Anyway, so he's like, oh no, mymom, because she's there with
five of these, right?
Well, first, oh, first he likebattles the thing and like it
(19:41):
like scratches his hand and likejump scares him a bunch of
times.
And like it's clearly likemalicious.
So oh no, my mom.
He calls his mom and she hasmeanwhile like come up.
He lives like he sleeps in theattic, in like a attic bedroom.
And so she's gone up and seenthat they're all cracked, and
like he calls and she answersthe phone up in his room, and
(20:02):
he's like, Mom, get out of thehouse.
One of them cuts the fucktelephone line while they're
talking.
So she goes down and like shegoes mama bear on these guys and
kills one of them in themicrowave, like you remember,
kills one of them with a kitchenknife, like psycho, like Norman
Bates style, and kills one ofthem by like shoving it into
some sort of like mixer or likeit's a Pelzer.
(20:24):
Invention, but imagine like anopen bowl blender, and that's
how she kills that one.
So there's like green goo allover.
So she's now taken out three ofthe five.
Well, I guess there's sixbecause there's the one, oh,
that they killed Mr.
Hansen.
So, I mean, good on her.
But then one was like hiding inthe Christmas tree, and the
Christmas, like it's in theChristmas tree, and so the tree
(20:47):
kind of attacks her at onepoint.
I feel like there's a metaphorin that.
And the gremlin has like a scarfor something around her neck and
is like choking her just whenBilly gets there.
And Billy like takes this swordthat had been hanging on the
wall and like cuts its head offand it goes into the fire, and
that's really gross.
And so now there's only one leftat their house.
(21:09):
Stripe.
Stripe.
And it runs off into the snow.
So Billy takes mom to theneighbors who's a doctor and
drops her off and then goes offwith the sword to try and get
stripe.
He follows him into the YMCAwhere Stripe ends up jumping in
the pool.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
There's like green like smoke and lights and
everything from like all of thebecause that's how they
reproduce.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
So Billy goes to the cops, and the cops are like like
the worst stereotypes aboutcops.
Well, maybe not the worstbecause we don't actually see
them beat black people.
But like that's not astereotype.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
That's just true.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Like the worst kind of like incompetent, drunken,
don't believe you kind ofstereotypes about cops is these
guys, right?
So like they are actively drunk.
They do not believe him, ofcourse.
He even shows them gizmo andthey still don't believe him.
Then they get calls.
So while he's trying to convincethe cops to do something,
because there's going to behundreds, if not thousands, of
(22:16):
these things because Stripejumped in the pool.
Mr.
Futterman, they get to Mr.
Futterman's house and they'relike on the TV antenna and like
messing up with his TV.
And he's like, this damn foreignthing.
I told you we should have boughtan American TV.
So he goes out to check theantenna and he looks up at the
roof and then he hears somethingin his garage.
And now we've seen him before.
He drives a Kentucky harvestertractor.
(22:38):
Like that's what he drives ashis vehicle to get around town.
unknown (22:42):
What?
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the gremlins are driving it.
And he actually had he gave usthe word gremlin earlier because
he said, you can't trust foreigncars because they put gremlins
in them.
Like there are gremlins in themachinery.
And then he is killed.
He and his wife are killed byGremlins driving his Kentucky
harvester right into his houseand over him and his wife.
(23:05):
There's this scene with a wholebunch of them like in the bar
where Kate is actually stilllike she's trying, she's like
serving them to try and likestay alive.
And they're like, it is likethey committed to the bit.
Like, I don't know where theycame up with this tiny clothing,
but like, and this is where Ithink some of the accusations of
gremlins being black folks comefrom.
(23:26):
Like they're sitting around likegangsters, and like at one point
they're like playing poker, andthat definitely looks more like
the mob, like Italian gangsterkind of stereotypes.
Stripe is in the center, andlike two of them are sitting on
the side with like aces on theirears, like on a cheat, and
there's one dressed up like awoman next to Stripe, like in a
(23:47):
wig with lipstick and stuff.
But then there are others whohave like sunglasses and like
caps down over their eyes andother ways in which it's like
1980s fashion from black culturein this bar, and they're like
like lying under the tap, likeholding the beer tap like open
into their open mouth, or likesmoking three cigarettes at
(24:09):
once.
And like that's not necessarily,you know, coded as black, but it
is coded as like bad.
Yeah.
And like undesirable.
Kate manages to get out when sherealizes that they don't like
bright light, and she uses aanother camera with flash to
kind of work her way out of thebar.
(24:31):
And then Billy comes and getsher in his car, which doesn't
work.
And these guys are everywhere.
The cops see what's happeningand they are total cowards.
And the deputy's like, pleasestart the car.
I would very much like to goback to the station now.
Meanwhile, the gremlins have cutthe brake line.
They end up flipping their car.
The gremlins have like messedwith the traffic lights so that
(24:53):
it's green on all sides, causinglike car accidents, total
shenanigans all over the town,with like a moderately high body
count, including Mrs.
Dangle, who's across betweenMrs.
Gulch and Mr.
Potter.
So she uses one of those likestair chairs, stair lift chairs.
(25:13):
Oh, I remember that.
I remember that.
Yeah.
She has a whole bunch of cats,each named after a different
currency.
Like Dollar Bill is one of hercats, and like yen is one of her
cats or something.
I don't remember exactly, butthey're named after currencies.
And she's got lots of them.
And anyway, she hears Carol'scarolers and she's like, I hate
(25:35):
carolers.
I told you all to stay away.
And she comes out and it'sgremlins.
And like again, they havecommitted to the bit and they're
wearing like little coats andthings and have like sheet music
and like earmuffs and stuff.
And they're singing like yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, like to their
own tune, but like consultingtheir sheet music.
unknown (25:54):
I don't know what the hell.
SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
Anyway, she freaks F out, goes inside, and is like,
you're not gonna get me, you'renot gonna get me.
And she like gets on her stairchairlift, but meanwhile, one of
them has like messed with it andlike changed the speed, so it
goes up really, really fast andit jacks her out a window at the
top of the stairs.
So the final showdown, no, kindof the final showdown, Kate and
(26:19):
Billy have come out of whereverthey were, and there's the
streets are empty.
And she's like, Where are theyall?
And he says, Well, it's gonna belight soon.
I'm sure they're all somewheredark.
And so they're in the movietheater.
And somehow they managed to getone of the reels working for
Snow White, and it's like thework song, and they friggin'
love it.
The theater is full of thesegremlins, and it looks like the
(26:41):
Muppet Show.
Like when you saw a view of theaudience of the Muppet Show,
Billy and Kate burn down thetheater.
They kill all the gremlinsexcept for Stripe, who had left
to go get some candy that he sawsign in the department store.
So the final showdown is in thedepartment store.
And Stripe almost wins.
Like he hurts Billy real bad.
(27:03):
But Gizmo drives that little carthat you remember and manages to
open the skylights and kill himwith the sunlight, just as he
was getting in a little fountainto like start all over again.
Dad shows up at the last minute,like just in time to watch the
like death of Stripe.
And they all go home.
(27:24):
They're like watching TV where anews reporter is blaming mass
hysteria on all of the reportsof the little green men.
When the grandfather from thestore from the very beginning
shows up at the door and islike, well, the dad says this is
the man I bought gizmo from.
And the grandfather's like, botis an interesting use of that
(27:45):
word.
He gives the money back, hetakes gizmo, he says, Your
society did to Mogwai what youdo to everything.
You every all of nature's gifts,all of nature's gifts.
You don't understand, you're notready.
And he leaves with gizmo, whodoes say bye, Billy.
And he also says, bye, woofwoofto Barney.
(28:06):
The final scene has anothervoiceover from Pelzer from the
dad saying, like, if ever yourTV's on the fritz or your
washing machine isn't working,like turn all the turn on all
the lights because there mightbe a gremlin or something like
that, which is like maybe notthe lesson.
And then like the last visual isthis old man walking away
(28:26):
holding the box with the Mogwaiin it.
So once again, I did a terriblejob doing a synopsis, but
there's just, there's actuallyso much in this movie.
I didn't even say, and Iactually want to, Kate hates
Christmas.
And at one point, she deliversthis line about how people get
depressed at Christmas.
Well, some people are openingpresents, others are opening
(28:47):
their wrists.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
And like, Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Whoa, this is not it's a wonderful life.
And then we later find out thatpart of the reason she hates
Christmas is her dad died atChristmas.
He didn't just die at Christmas,he was trying to surprise them
by coming down the chimneydressed as Santa Claus and
slipped and broke his neck.
And she found him when she lit afire a couple days later and
smelled something.
So, like, holy fucking shit,this is dark.
(29:13):
What the hell?
And it's interesting when shesays she hates Christmas, like
this is in the middle of themovie, so before before they've
turned into bad.
And Billy's like, how can youhate Christmas?
Are you Hindu or something?
unknown (29:28):
Like, what?
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
This movie passes back Dell Test, but just barely.
Mrs.
Dingle and Mrs.
Harris talk about the rent thatis owned.
That's it, pretty much.
Whee! It passes that very lowbar.
Low bar.
I think there was an intentionallike send up of the xenophobia,
maybe because Mr.
(29:55):
Futterman is so ridiculous.
We do have some sympathy for himbecause he's meant to be a World
War II vet who maybe has somePTSD.
We learn later that he's losthis job and like things just
have been hard for him.
And that's actually potentiallywhere the word gremlins comes
from, because that was a thingthat World War II pilots would
talk about.
That's what they would theywould blame mechanical failure
(30:15):
on.
There is apparently not a mucholder tradition than that.
Roll doll then brought it intothe public consciousness with a
book that he wrote.
And then that Twilight Zone withthe with William Shatner with
the thing on the wing.
So that very specific, likeactually plain thing and the
word gremlin, like that thenalso does come from this guy,
Mr.
Futterman.
But his xenophobia is soridiculous and over the top that
(30:40):
makes me think that there wassort of an intentional kind of
send-up of that by making makingthat makes me much more
sympathetic to him being like sonasty about a Volkswagen.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
The Volkswagen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
If he's a World War II vet, yeah.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
But he's that way abouteverything.
Yeah.
Like the TV and everything.
I mean, he's meant to beridiculous, but slightly
sympathetic.
The Mogwai gizmo came from anAsian, almost over-the-top Asian
character.
He's like just on the edge ofcaricature.
(31:14):
And so it's close enough that Ican't tell if it was on purpose
or not.
You know what I mean?
And so that piece of it as well,like makes me think that maybe
there was an intentional kind ofsend-up of that mistrust.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
Kind of like um big trouble in little China.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Yeah, exactly.
Except then, like the thing, thethings that suburbanites fear
about like outsiders like movinginto their neighborhoods and
like destroying property values,like like pushing against their
way of life, like that actuallylike then happens.
(31:51):
I mean, even like the mom, whenshe fights off those three in
her kitchen that you rememberwith the microwave, she says,
get out of my kitchen.
You know, like it's very likeit's very nimble.
Yes.
Yes.
I have to admit, I don't knowthat I would have seen this as
racism if I hadn't read fromother commentators saying that
these gremlins represent blackfolks.
(32:13):
I don't think I would have seenit.
But once it's pointed out, I'mlike, oh yeah, I see what
they're getting at.
You know, like I see wherethey're going with this
potentially.
Especially like in the barscene, Dante and Columbus were
just having a blast.
Right.
Like it didn't matter if it madesense.
We see one gremlin in like legwarmers like breakdancing, and
(32:35):
we see them like hanging fromthe fans and like they're
wearing sunglasses.
Like another one like has a tinytrench coat and like flashes
Kate.
Most of them are naked, so Idon't know what he's flashing,
but like the gag, the visual gagwith the tiny clothing, like
well, and none of that makessense because where would they
have gotten the clothing?
(32:55):
Like this is it's all just sortof magical realism with the fact
of the gremlins, you know?
And the the movie makers arejust enjoying themselves.
Totally.
They were just having a goodtime and there are a lot of
sight gags.
And then again, in the finalshowdown in the department
store, again, now this one, Ithink when it's just Stripe and
(33:17):
Billy, like Gremlin a mono,gremlin ah human, then that's
where like there's someadditional sort of consumerism
stuff, right?
Because like Kate is trying toturn on the lights, and so she's
hitting all these buttons, andso all these like attention,
Christmas shoppers, is likecoming over the loudspeaker, and
(33:38):
like there's all this stuff andtoys, and there are so many
references to other movies.
So there's a reference toSpielberg's E.T.
there, where Billy walks past arow of like stuffed animals, and
there are Bugs Bunnies and otherlike recognizable characters,
including a little E.T.
doll that then Stripe kind ofpushes them aside, and we see
(33:59):
his face amidst the stuffedanimals.
And there are guns, like Stripetries to shoot him.
He takes a chainsaw to him andlike almost gets him with a
chainsaw, like Billy's holdinglike a baseball bat that gets
all chewed up, like to protecthimself from this chainsaw.
Like it's potentially gruesome.
Like, yeah, it's really intense.
And apparently, one of thecommentators said the original
(34:21):
script had the mom getdecapitated in the Christmas
tree scene.
And Columbus was like, no, DonJoe, Joe, like scale it back,
scale it back.
Mom lives.
unknown (34:30):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (34:32):
So I feel like there's something about
consumerism and capitalism andgreed.
Like the there's a especiallylike the absurdity of the way
that the like woman who is somean to the entire apparently
the entire town owes her, youknow, owes her rent.
And the way she gets sort ofthrown out a window, she's
(34:55):
Scrooge, but she doesn't get achance to redeem herself.
She just gets thrown out awindow.
SPEAKER_00 (35:01):
But she gets thrown out a window by this force that
everybody is terrified of andhates.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Yeah.
Who also seem to be able to readbecause they see that it says
Dingle Real Estate, and one ofthem goes, ah, dingle.
Like, I like their intelligenceis very curious as well.
Like, I I don't reallyunderstand the rules of their
intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
That's part of, I mean, like, that's part of what
like this film is not supposedto hang together.
It's not supposed to.
What they represent is all overthe place.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
Like one commentator sort of named all the different
or several different things thatthey represent, like immigrants
or black folks, or sex, maybe?
Like, which I didn't follow muchat all, but maybe they all
represent Billy's lust.
I mean, we they do flash his theobject of his interest.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
So and there's something about the fact that
he's like a young adult whostill lives at home, and there's
like the like there's thereproduction aspect of it, and
the like I mean, there's there'sthe curiosity aspect.
I mean, there's there'ssomething there.
Yeah.
And it is like it's all over theplace.
You know, obviously thefilmmakers, they were having fun
(36:13):
with it, and they like theydidn't care, which is fine.
Like it's fine.
It doesn't have to make sense.
It's like this is entertainment.
But because they didn't reallyhave a cohesive idea of what it
meant, some things can slip in.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
Right.
And it's interesting when I lookat the actual like story
construction construction ofthis film, right?
Because it's almost it was Ithink they were playing with
genres, right?
So that the first act when wefirst meet Mowgli, like it's
kind of E.T., right?
And there's just this like aweand wonder at this this life
form that's out of this world.
(36:52):
And then the second act, whichis when they're all when they're
in the pupil stages, they're inthe cocoons, like it's heading
toward horror, right?
And we don't know which way it'sgonna go.
And it could have gone likefull-on horror, but instead it
went with this sort of campy,like visual gag horror, which
(37:12):
there's actually kind of a highbody count, but there's not
actually like they're notgruesome, and none of them
really like have any kind of anemotional impact.
I think actually Kate's storyabout her father has the most
emotional impact as a death,which happened when she was nine
(37:35):
and she's meant to be in herearly twenties.
That third act is this sort oflike just anarchic gag that was
done completely like what's theword for analog effects?
Like just physical effects.
Like there were there were somethere which is kind of
(37:57):
remarkable.
Like there I there's a reasonthat I saw the Muppets in that
theater scene.
Like didn't have anything to dowith this?
Not as far as I know.
Okay, but they're all puppetsand marionettes, and like the
actual visual effects are alljust physical effects, they're
not digital, which is I mean, insome ways, shows, you know, from
(38:21):
a contemporary viewer, in someways I'm like, oh yeah, I see
that.
But once it's actually like inthe thick of it, I was in it.
I was totally in it.
I wasn't like, oh, that's just apuppet.
Like I was like, oh shit, what'sgonna happen now?
Run away, run away, get out ofthe house.
Like I was really in it.
(38:44):
It's fascinating to me thatlike, especially when I when I
think about it as genre, andthen I think about the movies
that they make direct referenceto where we actually see footage
of It's a Wonderful Life,Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
There's another one of likeGizmo watches some old film of
like a racer or like race cars,which is then he's like making
the same noise he makes when hedrives that little pink Barbie
(39:05):
car or whatever it's supposed tobe.
And then Snow White as well withthe visual effects of Snow
White.
There's something, it's almostlike a love letter to movies.
I'm sure there are other Eastereggs in there that I missed that
because I'm not I'm a movieviewer, but not like a cinephile
in the way that I think I have afeeling that cinephiles watch
(39:26):
this movie and they're like, oh,look at that.
Oh, that oh, there's that thing.
Probably even in 1984, well,definitely even especially in
1984 when it was made, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
It makes me think of like Jordan Peel because like he
got his start in comedy, buthorror was always his first
love.
And watching his movies, if youare especially someone who loves
horror films, you can see theinfluences of like the major
horror films.
If it's similar to that, wherelike this is an homage to all
(39:56):
these films, but it's also likewhen you were saying, because
you're talking about how Mrs.
Dingle is kind of like a mashupof Mrs.
Gulch and um Mr.
Picotter and Scrooge.
Yeah.
And so it's kind of like, youknow, like what if I made that
movie but then like made ittotally camp and scary?
And like Yeah, like what if Itook It's a Wonderful Life and
(40:16):
made it a horror film?
Yeah, exactly.
And so, like, there there'ssomething well, we talked a
little bit about this with uhRocky Horror.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
picture show where you know you just take all see
the influences see theinfluences build on them and
then you create something thatis completely bonkers and
totally new even though it's notexactly yeah yeah I yeah and I
wonder what effect thoseinfluence have on then the sort
of subtext which is it a send upor is it reifying like the
(40:48):
xenophobia and the not in mybackyard and the like because
invasion of the body snatchers Ithink was about like Red Scare
right when it was made.
So when the kind of culturalsubtext of the piece of media
that is influencing you, likehow does that then influence
your cultural subtext?
(41:08):
I think that's a reallyinteresting question.
Yeah.
I mean it's also the case thatit's a wonderful life gets real
dark before it gets gratefulagain.
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
Well and it's a wonderful life Bedford Falls is
entirely white.
Oh gosh that's how communitieswere in the 40s there was
redlining and you know the VAbenefits were not for black
soldiers and all of that.
I mean so I mean the fact thatthere even was one black guy to
(41:38):
die first was actually progressprobably in 1984 honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
I mean right I don't know although that is a horror
genre is I mean that is a horrorcliche isn't it that the black
guy dies first?
Yeah but when did that start?
SPEAKER_00 (41:52):
I have no idea I don't I don't either this is as
horror as I get yeah I wouldhave to do some research I don't
know when that cliche began ifthat began in the 70s if that
began in the 80s but it did notit would not have been earlier
than like I think the 70s.
As of the 60s I don't know howmuch horror there was where
(42:15):
people there was a huge bodycount.
Yeah enough of a body count forthe black guy to die first or
for there to be a multiple likea diverse cast even right right
yeah so you had a couple otherthings that you you wanted to
talk about.
You you mentioned somethingbefore we got started about
environmentalism.
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
Well yeah because I think that the final thing that
the grandfather says to thePelsers is and he said this is
interesting too he says youtaught Mogwai to watch
television and then he says youdid to Mogwai what you do to all
(42:54):
of nature's gifts.
I said this earlier you don'tunderstand you're not ready and
as he's leaving he looks atBilly because the mo because
Gizmo wants to say goodbye toBilly specifically the
grandfather can understand whathe has to say and he says to
Billy you might be ready one dayso there seems to be like the
fact that he needs nature'sgifts like it feels like maybe
(43:18):
there was an intention of somesort of environmentalism like
we're not following the rulesand like mayhem is happening.
But it's it also feels a littlelike too little too late like
like almost kind of like slappedon at the end in order for that
like I don't think that'sactually the lesson of the movie
(43:39):
I don't think but I don't knowlike it's like what they wanted
the lesson of the movie to bebut I'm not sure they succeeded
in giving us that.
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Well and I don't know like nature's gifts
like 'cause it I mean because itfeels like this is more about
like yes like the Mogwai is issupposed to be this creature
natural creature naturalcreature.
But it feels like it's moreabout like you took something
from another culture that youdidn't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
Yeah it does it definitely does feel like more
like appropriation.
Although I g if I look back ifI'm looking for evidence of that
like the all of Pelzer'sinventions are like overly
complicated shit.
Right?
Like the mom keeps trying to usethese like remote controls like
to answer the phone that's likethree feet away from her.
She could just answer it.
You know, or like to dim thelights.
(44:31):
Again it's three feet awaythere's this like juicer that
like spits pulp orange pulpeverywhere and like a coffee
maker that makes sludge thatlike what's wrong with your
coffee maker man?
You know like so he likeovercomplicates things and
overcomplicates nature's gift.
Maybe I could make an anargument that is part of the
case.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
It feels sort of forced it feels sort of forced
yeah well and then is he talkingjust directly to Rand Pelzer?
SPEAKER_01 (44:59):
Like you or is he saying you white folks he says
you did what your society does.
He actually specifically saysyour society.
So I think he's talking to whitefolks.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Okay.
But or Western culture moregenerally well and he taught you
taught them to watch television.
Like that's interesting.
Is that a like aanti-consumerism thing,
anti-capitalism?
SPEAKER_01 (45:22):
Yeah I don't know it's really interesting given
how like lovingly this movietreats other movies it is the
case that there's a TV in everyroom in these folks' house which
I have no idea how they affordthat because clearly his
inventions aren't working.
Yeah.
And she seems to be a homemaker.
He does work at the bank but thekid works at the bank but
anyway.
How long has he been doing that?
I mean he's in this onlytwenties yeah yeah so anyway I
(45:47):
think that's all I have time forso I'm gonna have to record a
shit I forgot to say.
But let me see if I can reflectback what I did say which is
that this movie does passbackdel but it's a very low bar.
There's not none but there's nota whole lot of women represented
here.
There's mom and there's Kate andthere are other like extras and
the bad guy sort of DeagleDingle whatever her name is and
(46:11):
of course she has the worstpossible like Mrs.
SPEAKER_00 (46:13):
Dingle.
Yeah yeah if you married a manwhose last name was Dingle
wouldn't you keep your maidenname?
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
I mean I don't know when this was supposed to be if
it's supposed to be the 80s orearlier but like people didn't
do that much.
SPEAKER_00 (46:27):
Anyway Cruella Deville made her husband take
the Deville name because she's areal person and that really
happened.
Because she didn't want theDeville name to die out.
So that was in the 50s.
And I know that was proof of howawful she was but still she was
a villain.
SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
Okay.
This movie has a lot of subtextabout xenophobia and it's
unclear to me how it actuallyshakes out.
Like if it's just reflectingxenophobia of the time or if it
is in fact kind of trying tocritique xenophobia.
The man from whose speech we getthe most xenophobia, Mr.
(47:08):
Futterman, who's constantlycomplaining about foreign-made
things and by extensionforeigners, is ridiculous and
also a little sympatheticbecause he's a World War II vet.
He also dies while when gremlinsare driving his American made
whatever it is tractor.
So it's complicated.
There are other commentators whoI think have an argument to be
(47:33):
made that the gremlinsthemselves represent black folks
and Kingston Falls are the whitesuburbanites who are so afraid
of invasion, I'm putting quotesaround that word and lowering of
property value and behavior thatlike the urban again quotes
behavior that they think isagainst their way of life.
(47:54):
I would not have seen that if Ihadn't read that from another
commentator, but once I read itI see why they make the argument
there's a commentary aboutenvironmentalism and following
the rules of like taking care ofso-called nature's gifts that
the movie makers gave us throughthe dialogue that I think is
maybe a little misplaced fromthe actual action of the film.
(48:16):
It seems to me more aboutcultural appropriation and and
the sort of Western like I wantthis give it to me how much does
it cost that like you know wecould point to I don't know the
British Museum or whatever likewhatever the sort of Western
(48:36):
appropriation of other culturesculture behavior artifacts pets
the movie makers clearly lovemovies.
I mean that's why they went intowhat they went into and that
shows through there are specificmovies whose references we see
like because clips of themappear, including It's a
Wonderful Life, Invasion of theBody Snatchers, and Disney Snow
(48:59):
White.
But there are other referencesto movies throughout that so
that we get sort of in thesethree acts, it's almost like
three separate genres, which isreally I think really
interesting when we think aboutit as like a storytelling way of
going and like while it wasfunny and that there's like a
lot of sight gags with theinexplicable tiny clothing that
(49:21):
these little gremlins wear, it'salso like super funny.
Like this is one where much likeother horror films where we
talked about where the villainsget a lot more like appreciation
on the other side than theheroes like that's the case here
because those guys are funny,right?
Like in their leg warmers andtheir tiny trench coats or
whatever the hell they'rewearing like they're funny.
(49:44):
There's a reason that like weall have them in our heads I
think we talked as we often doabout comedy and horror I still
found it like blood pressureraising.
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
There's a reason why dad was upset about having taken
us to it.
SPEAKER_01 (50:00):
Even with the sort of horror and like scare aspects
of it.
And we've talked about thatbefore at great length.
We didn't so much today but Ithink it's worth naming there's
definitely some like intendedcritique of capitalism or at
least of greed in the person ofMrs.
Dingle who gets thrown out awindow and especially in the
context of a Christmas movie, Ithink there's definitely some
(50:23):
critique of greed, possiblycapitalism, possibly
consumerism, although those allthose both are slightly more
fuzzy in my head because of whodoes and doesn't pay
consequences namely Mr.
Pelzer, the dad who steals slashbuys the Mogwai in the first
place faces no consequenceswhatsoever to himself.
(50:45):
So that's worth noting.
And lastly we briefly mentionedthe impact of this movie that
you named it in the beginningthat this is one of the movies
that caused the FCC to establishthe PG 13 rating.
Indiana Jones and the Temple ofDoom was the other which came
out just a few weeks before itwas the same summer.
That's all I got for thisChristmas movie.
(51:06):
Well actually it's not I havemore but that's all I have time
for for this Christmas movie.
So what are you bringing me nextweek?
SPEAKER_00 (51:16):
Oh I've never seen that looking forward delightful
or at least it was when I saw itthe first time see then words
but see you then this show is alabor of love but that doesn't
make it free to produce if youenjoy it even half as much as we
do please consider helping tokeep us overthinking.
SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
You can support us at our Patreon there's a link in
the show notes or leave apositive review so others can
find us.
And of course share the showwith your people thanks for
listening our theme music isProfessor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod
from Incompotech.com find fullmusic credits in the show notes.
(51:58):
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time remember popculture is still culture and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.