They're heeeeere!
In a moment that would echo through the 42 years that followed, Tracie and Emily's father let the girls watch the 1982 film Poltergeist on TV sometime in 1983, when the sisters were only 7 and 4 years old. This classic of pop culture horror drew the Guy girls in because of 5-year-old Heather O'Rourke, the adorable blonde-and-blue-eyed actress who played Carol Ann, who is sucked into the TV by the poltergeists. By the time the truly terrifying stuff appeared--including a tree that tried to eat Carol Ann's brother and a clown doll that came to life--Tracie and Emily were too scared to leave the room and their Dad was too invested to turn off the film.
This week, Emily finally revisits this traumatizing pop culture phenomenon, and finds a lot to enjoy. Not only does she recognize a number of movies that were influenced by this film--which was penned by Steven Spielberg, who again shows off his storytelling chops--but it offers a fascinating and feminist examination of the relationships between women and the roles of mothers and daughters. Although, some of the behind-the-scenes information she learned about the film makes it clear the filmmakers really didn't understand the film they were making.
You don't need to hang back. We won't jam your frequency while you listen in!
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want to talk about how influential this film was.
Watching it now, I could seelike, oh my goodness,
ghostbusters was influenced bythis and Nightmare on Elm Street
was influenced by this, and theSixth Sense was influenced by
this, and, wowza, so much hastaken from this film that
traumatized me as afour-year-old.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1982 film Poltergeist withmy sister, tracy Guy-Decker, and
with you, let's dive in.
So, trace, I know you've seenthis movie because it was a
(01:04):
traumatic event from our earlychildhood.
It was the uh, just the fatherof the year award to our dad in
somewhere around 1983.
Do you want to tell the storyof how we both saw this movie
for the first time?
I feel like we've even talkedabout it on the show before,
like it was on cable, and we'relike, oh, it's a little girl
(01:26):
like us and we started watchingit, and this was back in the day
when, if you didn't have a TVguide, you didn't know what it
was you were watching, if youmissed the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Right, right, right, and then, and so we started
watching and like by the time werealized that it was a horror
movie, like dad was invested andand wouldn't let us turn it off
and we were too scared to leavethe room by ourselves.
It was 83.
Then I was like seven or eight.
I was four, I was four years old, okay, so I was seven.
(01:55):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
So I have to say I haven't seenit since then, but I have
pretty strong memories.
So in my head, the furniturethat's in my brain about
poltergeist is that they built ahouse on top of a native
american graveyard and theghosts, or the spirits of the
(02:18):
dead were like came through thetelevision, I think they sucked
the little girl into thetelevision and lots of hijinks
ensue and a dude like pulled hisface off in the in the mirror
and there was like static snowon the tv and like voices
underneath of it.
And that's what's in my head.
And it scared me so bad that Iam now 49 years old and no,
(02:40):
thank you, I don't want to watchthat movie.
Thank you, I don't want towatch that movie.
So that's what's in my headabout this movie.
But I have to ask, like it wasso traumatic, like why did you
want to go back to it?
Why are we, why are we talkingso?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I wanted to revisit it, in part because of my
experience watching Nightmare onElm Street.
Like that was the like oh deargod, no movie of my childhood
and I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed watching it andI have become a horror fan as
an adult and I knew I couldhandle it.
Now, you know so.
(03:16):
For years after that all youhad to do is say the word
poltergeist and I would climbthe walls and I, if I recall
correctly, I wouldn't go intoany room, even the bathroom, by
myself.
I had to have an adult with meat all times.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For a little while, yeah, and for years and years
and years.
Snow static on a televisionwould freak me the hell out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So I wanted to revisit it in part to exorcise
the demon, so to speak.
I wanted to revisit it in partto exercise the demon, so to
speak.
Yeah, and also because it islisted as, like, one of the best
horror movies ever made.
And I'm also a little bitcurious.
That was not a parentingdecision.
I could understand that Dadmade Like I get getting invested
(04:05):
in a movie.
I also get the fact that it wasa lot.
Get getting invested in a movie.
I also get the fact that it wasa lot harder to come by a movie
and yes, and like back then,with the cable like they would,
you know when they rerun it allthe time, like if hbo was
showing the movie, they wouldshow it again.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Your daughters are terrified.
And four and seven littledaughters are terrified.
And four and seven, your tinylittle daughters are terrified.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So part of it was like what was it about this
movie that dad found socompelling?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That he was willing to risk our well-being for it.
Fair, fair and listeners, ourdad is not around anymore.
We cannot ask him.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I really I wish I had thought to do that, Although I
kind of feel like dad would dothis thing where he would kind
of deny the not super great.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Totally, he would have totally denied it.
He would totally have denied itand, like I think he would have
convinced himself that thisdidn't actually happen, I can
remember when my older son wastwo years old, we were in
Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We met with dad in Pittsburgh sometime around
Christmas.
We could spend a little timewith him.
We got an Airbnb for everybodyand so there was a Pittsburgh so
hilly.
There was a car stuck at thebottom of the hill that couldn't
get up because it was so icyand it was a mom and grandmother
and a little baby like about myson's age in the back seat and
both the mom and grandma weresmoking and like he said to them
(05:30):
, like he helped them get thecar going, and then said to him
like shouldn't be smoking infront of that baby, and I was
just like you, hypocrite, yousmoked with me in the back of
the car.
Now, you didn't know better in1983, but you did it, and the
only reason he stopped wasbecause he almost died of a
heart attack.
It wasn't for our well-beingAnyway let's get to Poltergeist,
(05:52):
so that's why I was thinkingabout it.
So there's some things I wantto talk about that I find very
interesting, partially because Ilove haunted house stories.
I love the lore behindPoltergeists, in part because
the lore behind poltergeists, inpart because the lore behind
poltergeists surroundsadolescent girls in particular,
and it is a oh, yeah, really.
(06:13):
Yeah, I had no idea.
The mythology of poltergeistsis that they occur specifically
when a girl basically reachespuberty and it's Huh, they're
like menstrual ghosts.
Um, and it's this sense that,upon reaching that kind of
maturity, there's this, like itsends off this right, energy,
(06:36):
energy.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There's this power that cannot be contained.
So, which is just, absolutely.
Wasn't the child in the in the,isn't the child?
In the movie like our agethough.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Like seven at the time.
We'll get there, okay, cool.
So that's one of the reasonswhy I want to talk about it, but
there's a lot to go into it.
Now.
This story was written bySteven Spielberg and my God,
that man does story constructionright.
He does such good storyconstruction.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, spielberg movie, he.
(07:08):
It's unclear how much he had todo with the directing of it,
because, oh, he's a screenwriterand the he's one of them, he,
the story is by him, and then hewas the screenwriter with like
two other people toby hooper isthe director who had directed
the texas chainsaw massacre, butspielberg was on set and like,
(07:31):
definitely threw his weightaround, so it's his movie, huh.
so there's that aspect to it.
There's a lot about like familyand suburbia and like the fear
of technology, specificallytelevision, and there is this
(07:52):
question of respect for the dead, that part that you remembered
of what happened, why they werebeing haunted.
The idea of mothers anddaughters in particular, and not
necessarily biological mothersand daughters.
There's this really interestingthrough line of mothers and
daughters.
And I want to talk about howinfluential this film was.
Watching it now, I could seelike, oh my goodness,
(08:15):
ghostbusters was influenced bythis, and Nightmare on Elm
Street was influenced by this,and the Sixth Sense was
influenced by this and, wowza,so much has taken from this film
that traumatized me as afour-year-old.
So, considering you don't reallyremember it, I'll kind of give
(08:37):
you the plot.
Yes, please do so.
It takes place in oh, I'veforgotten the name of it, but it
takes place in this plannedcommunity.
It's not Queso Verde, becausethat would be green cheese.
It means Green Hill in Spanish.
I looked it up but I don'tremember the word because I
don't speak Spanish.
It's this planned something.
Verde Planned community.
(08:58):
All the houses look exactly thesame.
It's this, you know, 1980ssuburban wonderland.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, Exactly Kachunka houses we used to call
them.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And so we meet the Freeling family.
There's the father, steve,played by Craig T Nelson, who,
my goodness, was a handsomeyoung man.
I did not know.
Huh, yeah, that's a surprise.
The mother whose name is Diane,played by Jo Beth Williams, who
is phenomenal.
There's the eldest daughter,played by Jo Beth Williams, who
is phenomenal.
There's the eldest daughter,played by Dominique Dunn.
(09:34):
Her name is Dana.
The middle child is Robbie,played by I cannot remember the
actor's name, and then theyoungest child, so Dana is 16,
Robbie is 8, and Carol Ann, thelittle girl with the blonde hair
and blue eyes, who is adorable.
She is five and she's played byHeather O'Rourke.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
She was, she was right between us.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So she was very much like we saw her.
We're like Landsman.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Mishpocha One of us, mishpocha.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, the blonde blonde girl.
She was Mishpocha.
So in the very first sceneSteve has fallen asleep in front
(10:27):
of the TV.
Blonde blonde girl in themorning.
So Steve has fallen asleep andwe do this again.
Spielberg or this might havebeen Hooper does this amazing
thing where the dog comes andtries to see if there's any
snacks left in the chair whereSteve is sitting.
Then he goes up and visitseveryone in the house.
So you get to be introduced toeveryone in the house through
the dog.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Through the dog's travel.
Oh my God, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I love it, and it's hilarious because Dana, the
teenager, has an entire bag ofchips under her pillow.
I have a teenage girl in myhouse that tracks, wakes up and
comes downstairs and sits at thetelevision, puts her hands on
(11:04):
it to the static and startstalking to it, saying I can't
hear you, I can't hear your name, and then starts answering
questions Five, yes, I don'tknow.
And then she starts shouting,which wakes the whole family up
and they come downstairs.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I remember that, those hands on the TV screen.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Stuff of nightmares.
It's the weekend.
That must have been a Saturdaynight.
The next day is Sunday.
Steve is watching a footballgame with several of the other
men in the neighborhood.
Right there in his living room,Diane is cleaning the house and
she finds that Tweety, the petbird that lived in Robbie and
Carol Ann's house, has died.
And she says oh, Tweety,couldn't you have waited for a
(11:46):
school day?
That's so real.
So she initially wants to justflush it, but Carol Ann catches
her and so they end up buryingit in a box.
And they have a very cute thingwhere Carol Ann says like it
smells bad, tweety doesn't likehow it smells, and her mom's
(12:06):
like Tweety can't smell anymoreand we'll put a flower in it.
And then she puts licorice inin case he gets hungry, and like
a little napkin in for bedtimeand a picture of the family from
case he gets lonely.
And so they bury the box in thebackyard while Robbie is
climbing the tree right next towhere they're doing it and
(12:28):
making fun, and Dana is kind ofmaking fun too.
But as soon as they've buriedTweety, caroline goes can I have
a goldfish now?
So really like got the familydynamics down Tracks, tracks.
So at bedtime that night CarolAnn has two new goldfish.
(12:50):
They're going to bed.
There is a clown, which, let metell you, this was the thing
that I remembered most from thismovie.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
There's a clown in this film.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's a clown doll yeah.
Oh, okay, so there's, a clownthat sits in a chair in the
bedroom, and so diane puts thekids to bed.
There's a storm coming.
Robbie's a little worried aboutit and diane's like, no, no,
it'll be fine.
So they, uh, put the light onin the closet because caroline
insists on that and then turnsoff the light in the in the
(13:23):
their, in their quiet for alittle while Robbie's getting
freaked out about the clown sohe throws his jacket over it.
Smart move, rob, smart move.
And we see Steve and Diane justkind of talking.
They're smoking a jointtogether in bed.
Kind of talking.
(13:46):
They're smoking a jointtogether in bed.
And Diane is reading through abook on psychology, talking
about how nocturnal somnambulism, sleepwalking, may be genetic.
And she tells a story of howshe went sleepwalking when she
was 10 years old and went likethree blocks and ended up
falling asleep in the back ofthe car of some guy.
She just got in and then wentback to sleep in there and the
(14:07):
guy didn't even realize she wasthere until he got to work and
then she started screaming andyeah, it's this whole story.
So and it's like, okay, sothat's what's going on with
carol ann is what they'rethinking.
And so then she says oh my god,what happens if she like falls
into the the pool, and so that'show it's introduced to us that
they're thinking.
And so then she says oh my god,what happens if she like falls
into the the pool, and so that'show it's introduced to us that
(14:29):
they're putting a pool in thebackyard.
Oh, based on what I remember,that's bad news so and steve is
is reassuring her.
it's fine, that's nothing,that's not gonna happen, and
they're like giggling and stufflike that.
Robbie comes in scared becausethe storm seems to be getting
stronger and Steve takes himback to his room, tells him like
when you see lightning, countuntil you hear the thunder and
(14:53):
if you have to count longer eachtime, it means the storm's
going away.
I learned that from.
Poltergeist, holy cow, andRobbie also says he's really
scared about the tree that'sright outside the window.
He's like it knows I live here.
It's like reaching for me.
And Steve says like well, yeah,it is a very old tree and we
(15:13):
built the house right herebecause it's a wise old tree and
it does know us because it'sbeen here so long.
But that's why I built thehouse here and so that's how you
learn that Steve has somethingto do with this development.
The next day some weird stuffhappens, like a glass shatters
when it shouldn't have somesilverware, like kind of bends
(15:34):
randomly.
And then the two older kids gooff to school and Diane has told
all the kids like please pushthe chairs in at the kitchen
table because the dog will getinto the food if they don't.
And she told them to do that.
They'd been pushed in.
And she comes back down afteryou know, running around doing
whatever, and all the chairs arepulled out and she turns to
Carol Ann and says oh gosh,that's right.
(15:56):
Anyway, she turns to Carol Annand says did you do that?
She says no and she turnsaround for a second to go like
she's pushed all the chairs in.
She's turned around for like asecond, comes back and the
chairs are piled on top of thetable in a way that would have
been impossible.
That ain't for anybody to do.
For any one person to do, ohLike it was so quick.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Because it was so quick, yeah, yeah Well, that
ain't creepy, it's super creepy.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Something I've forgotten.
The storm got stronger and sothe kids ended up sleeping in
the parents' bed and in themiddle of the night they had
left the TV on.
Tv's constantly on in thishouse.
They'd left the TV on.
The static is going.
Caroline got up and, you know,did the thing again and as she's
(16:45):
watching, like a hand comes outof the TV, flies around and
then like goes into the wall andthen there's like an earthquake
and then caroline goes.
They're here.
Do you remember that?
oh my god, my blood pressurejust spiked so anyway, chairs
are weird, doing the weird thing, and Diana's actually delighted
by this, so she thinks it'sreally cool.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
She doesn't know what genre movie she's in obviously
we see Steve at work.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
He is basically a realtor for this development.
We later learn he's responsiblefor 42% of all sales and we see
that every single house isliterally exactly the same.
So he gets home from work andshe meets him outside.
She says Steve, come with mevery quickly.
I need you to see this.
Don't say anything.
Remember back in our distantpast when you had an open mind.
(17:37):
And so she takes him to thekitchen.
She's like drawn some things onthe floor like a circle and
arrows.
She puts one of the kitchenchairs in the circle.
She's like, drawn some thingson the floor like a circle and
arrows.
She puts one of the kitchenchairs in the circle.
She's like just wait, just wait, just wait.
And then it pulls away andshe's like isn't that amazing?
So then she has like a bikehelmet that she puts on Carol
Ann and she puts Carol Ann onthe circle and then Carol Ann
(18:00):
gets pulled to the other sideand she has like Steve, catch
her.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Diane describes it.
It's like this itchy feelingthat pulls you Because Diane has
done it too.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Diane has done it too .
We just don't see it.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh, they go to their next door neighbor, like have
you had any disturbances?
Nope, nothing.
We have seen that day.
The crew is coming and has dugjust the hole for the swimming
pool.
So that's just hanging out backthere, just a giant pit.
That night there is anotherstorm and again Diane is like
(18:36):
isn't it amazing, like there'sthings we don't understand about
this world.
And this is the other thing.
It was the clown.
And then the other thing thetree breaks into the room and
grabs Robbie out of his bed andis trying to eat him.
That scared the absolute shitout of me.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So I vaguely remember , like the gnarled branches, as
like hands.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So the parents run in and see him being pulled out.
Carol Ann is still in her bed.
The parents and Dana runoutside to try to get to Robbie.
They're like freaking outtrying to get to Robbie.
As that happens, things startswirling and being pulled into
the closet in the kid's bedroomand being pulled into the closet
(19:28):
in the kid's bedroom and CarolAnn has this headboard that's
like.
It's like this decorativeheadboard and she's holding onto
it and being pulledhorizontally and calling for her
parents.
But because they're screamingfor Robbie and terrified for
their son, they're not hearing.
So they are like fighting to get, get robbie back.
He's like halfway down thegullet of this tree thing,
(19:51):
there's a tornado coming.
So they manage to get robbieout.
The tornado takes the tree upand away and they they go oh
crap, where's carol ann?
And so they go up into the room.
At that point the beds even areup against the door to the
closet because they've beenpulled that way, but nothing's
being pulled anymore.
(20:12):
So they go into the closet andthey're like oh my God, oh my
God, oh my God.
And they find a figure that'scovered in a blanket going like
is she okay?
What's going on?
And they pull the blanket offand it's the clown.
So they start lookingeverywhere.
Steve won't let Dana or Robbiego into the kitchen because he's
(20:35):
freaked out about what wasgoing on with that.
Robbie is very traumatized.
He's covered in muck and cutsand bruises and stuff and he
wanders into his parents' roomwhere the TV is still on and he
can hear Carol Ann's voicecoming through the TV.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, she's in the TV .
I remember her being in the TVcoming through the TV.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, she's in the TV .
I remember her being in the TV.
Next scene, Steve has gone to auniversity and is consulting
with three parapsychologiststhere's Dr Lesch, Marty and Ryan
.
Dr Lesch is a woman played by,oh, her last name is Straight
Brenda Straight, I think andshe's amazing.
And so they take hisinformation and she's like well,
(21:19):
you know, we may not be able tofind out what's going on.
He's like we don't care, wejust want our little girl back.
And she says can you keep thisfrom the media?
He's like we don't want to tellanyone about it because all we
want is our daughter back.
We haven't even gone to thepolice because we know they
won't believe us.
So they go to the house andthey are telling them like, well
(21:40):
, we do have some experiencewith this.
You know I got Ryan was sayinglike I got film footage of a
matchbox car traveling on itsown about seven feet.
And he's like, oh, okay.
He's like, yeah, it took aboutseven hours.
Like what do you mean?
It took seven hours, Well, toget from one end to the other
the seven feet.
And he's like, oh, okay, he'slike, yeah, it took about seven
hours.
Like what do you mean, it tookseven hours, well, to get from
one end to the other the sevenfeet.
But if you look at it from timelapse, it's amazing and he's
(22:03):
like uh-huh.
And so then he opens the doorto the kids room where
everything's floating and movingaround and like all three of
the parapsychologists are likewe're not prepared for this.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, that definitely sounds like Ghostbusters.
Ray the sponge has migratedabout three feet.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So they set up cameras and everything.
They are now everyone'ssleeping downstairs.
They've closed off that room.
They try to contact Carol Annand are able to speak to her.
She responds most to Diane.
She says there's a light andshe's scared of it.
And Dr Lesh says do not gotowards the light.
And so they are basicallywaiting to see what happens
(22:48):
overnight, because things arehappened much more after dark.
So the kids go to sleep.
I think Dana goes to a friend'shouse to sleep, robbie stays
there with his parents.
They're all sleeping there inthe living room and Dr Lesh and
Diane have this conversation.
That is just amazing about whatit is they're doing.
How terrified Dr Lesh is.
(23:09):
She has a PhD in psychology butshe's spent her life on this
hobby of hers, because nobodycan get a PhD in parapsychology,
and that she never actuallyanticipated seeing this.
And Dr Lesch kind of explainsher belief, which is that ghosts
are people who either don'trealize that they have died, and
(23:33):
so they feel jealousy and angertowards the living because they
can't enjoy the things that theliving enjoy.
And so Carol Ann has thisamazing life force and they're
drawn to that and so they're notletting her go and they need to
go to the light to be able tomove on.
(23:54):
So in the middle of the night,that thing with the peeling the
face off, so Marty goes into thekitchen to get something to eat
.
In the middle of the night hepulls out an entire steak out of
the fridge like he's going tocook it for himself.
But it's just like visualshortcuts I get, but it's just
like it should have been wrappedin something Anyway, and he's
(24:20):
chewing on a chicken wing orsomething.
He finds a chicken wing andhe's chewing on that, and so he
puts the steak just straight onthe counter, nothing underneath
of it.
He didn't care about foodsafety in the early 80s,
apparently, and this is theother thing that's very
Ghostbusters.
The steak starts moving acrossthe counter.
And then like it explodes withlike putrescence and then, like
(24:46):
he freaks out and like opens hismouth, the chicken wing falls
and like it's covered in maggotsand then he goes into like
there's like a sink, like autility sink, in another room,
and he like throws up into itand then he's got blood coming
out of his face and he startsclawing his own face and then
all of a sudden his face isnormal again and it's been this
(25:06):
like hallucination.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I remember that scene vividly.
It was very disturbing toseven-year-old me.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It was very disturbing to seven-year-old me.
He goes back into the livingroom where Ryan is listening to
music and so is not realizingthat something's going on.
And there are these etherealspirits coming down the stairs
and they're beautiful but alsoterrifying.
So they managed to catch allthat on camera.
And then that's the end of thenight.
So the next morning Dr Leshsays I have to go, I will come
(25:39):
back.
Marty's not coming back with me, he's not okay, ryan will come
back and I'm bringing help.
Steve's boss shows up, mr Teague, and says come take a ride with
me.
Steve has said that he has theflu, that's why he's not coming
in and he looks like shit.
So it looks correct.
The boss is afraid that Steveis trying to find another job,
(26:04):
so he takes him up to the top ofthis hill where you can see the
entire valley, where Issa Verdeor Que Soverde is, and we know
that they are already startingphase four and Steve and Diane's
house was part of phase one.
And so they're at the top ofthe hill and Mr Teague says like
(26:25):
imagine if this were your view.
And Steve says well, that wouldbe great for the person living
up here, but not so great forthe people in the valley.
And Mr Teague's like well, youdon't have to live in the valley
anymore, you could live here.
He's like we should have madeyou partner three years ago.
You're responsible for 42% ofthe sales and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And then Steve turns around andthere's this giant cemetery
(26:46):
behind him and he says I don'tknow if this is the right place
for housing.
Mr Teague says it's not, likeit's an ancient burial ground
and we've done it.
Before Phase one there was acemetery there and we moved it.
It's five minutes down the road.
Who's going to complain?
(27:21):
And Steve's like seems not okay, but I guess if nobody's
complained.
So that evening dr lesh bringstangina I think tangina baron,
played by zelda, zeldarubinstein, who is this tiny
little woman with this very highvoice who is so freaking badass
.
Do you remember her?
oh, I, she's a she's, she'solder like like middle-aged or
like like maybe 60s or early 60s.
Yes, I remember and so stevethinks she's completely delulu
(27:47):
and so she heads upstairs.
She's like you're jamming myfrequencies, like you know, give
me, give me some space.
She heads upstairs and shecalls down like so, what was in
this locked room?
And so Steve is like notanswering her and Diane's like
what are you doing?
He's like I'm answering her inmy mind.
And so they get him to it'swhere my son and daughter slept.
(28:10):
And then they're like yellingat him like hey, why are you not
?
But whispering like youshouldn't be doing that.
And he's like well, I justdon't think you know she can
actually read mind or whatever.
And then she calls from the topof the stairs like no, I heard
you.
I just don't like trick answers.
So like so she proves herselfright.
Then she says I can get yourdaughter back.
(28:33):
There are spirits that need tomove on.
You need to do everything I say.
But in addition to the spirits,there is a beast.
The beast has made itself seemlike a child and your child has
made itself a playmate for yourchild and she's in danger.
But we need to go through thatcloset to get her.
So they set up there's a portalbasically between the closet to
(28:58):
the living room and somewhere inbetween there is the in-between
place where everything is.
So they send a couple of tennisballs through to test it and
then they send a rope throughthat is like tied at both ends
so that it can be followed.
And then Tangina was going togo to get Carol Ann, but she's a
five-year-old girl and Dianesays no, no, no, you don't know
(29:20):
her, I have to go.
And Steve offers and she's likeyou're the only one strong
enough to hold the rope.
So Diane goes through, tanginais telling him don't let go,
don't let go, you know, don'tpull her back, whatever.
And then the beast appears andis like roaring at steve and he
(29:41):
freaks out like let's go of therope so it has enough slack so
that she can fall down.
And in the living room is dianeholding carol ann covered in
gook.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
it's very like birth coated uh, uh-huh and like
ectoplasm, like Ghostbustersyeah it's ectoplasm.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
So they take them to the bathtub and clean them off
and they start breathing.
Everything seems to be okay.
They are packing the next dayto leave.
I guess Steve has to go quit.
He's already told his boss goto hell, but he won't take that
for an answer.
So Diane says what are yougoing to tell him?
He says I'm going to give himdirections.
But the plan is they'resleeping at the Holiday Inn down
(30:25):
the road that night.
But they've packed up themoving truck and you know like
if the kids conk out, that'sfine, let them sleep.
But we're going to gathereveryone up, get in the car and
go.
This evening Diane has gottengray in her hair overnight so
she is like dyeing it and takinga bath and dyeing it.
And she asks Robbie.
And Tangina has declared thehouse is now clean.
(30:47):
So she's asked Robbie and CarolAnn to put themselves to bed.
She's going to take a bath andthey go to bed.
And that's when the clown comesalive.
And that's when I was just likeI really did watch this whole
goddamn movie, because this isthe thing that scared the crap
out of me.
Dandina was wrong, the spiritshad left, but the beast had not.
(31:08):
So the clown comes live and,wrapped it like, leaves its
chair and then wraps its armaround Robbie and is pulling him
under the bed.
The closet door opens and ispulling the kids.
At this point Diane is out ofthe bath, she's in her nightgown
and she starts being pulled upthe wall.
So this is what was veryNightmare on Elm Street.
(31:30):
She fights her way down and istrying to get to the kids and
the house is like pushing herout.
She ends up in the backyard.
She can't get in, falls intothe pool, the pit and coffins
and dead bodies.
She manages to get out with thehelp of the neighbor.
She goes back in.
(31:51):
Just barely managed to get thekids out.
Steve returns with Mr Teague.
At that point Dana is on a datewe know and is going to get a
ride home from her date.
And now bodies are fallingeverywhere and Steve has to try
to fight to get to his family.
They run around to the backyardand see all the bodies and
(32:15):
Steve says oh my God, mr Teague,you moved the headstones but
left the bodies.
You built this neighborhoodright over those bodies.
They managed to get the wholefamily into the car and get out
of there and the house likesucks into itself.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Like gets imploded down into the ground.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Just as Dana shows up , they get in the car and run
and meanwhile he's saying don'tlook back, don't look back to
the whole family.
They get to the motel, they getinto the room and the last
thing you see is him wheelingthe tv out and leaving it
outside, in the hallway or inthe.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's remarkable how much Iremember these 42 years later.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It was traumatic.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
This movie was.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
PG.
I cannot believe that this wasbefore PG-13 existed, but still,
holy moly, all right.
Okay, let's start with Bechdel,because we always do so.
Listeners, as a reminder, theBechdel test asks three
questions.
Are there at least two femalecharacters with names?
(33:21):
Do they talk to each other, anddo they talk to each other
about something other than a manor a boy?
Passes with flying colors.
Diane talks to Dana and CarolAnn.
Dr Lesh and Diane talk, tanginaand Diane talk about everything
, all kinds of stuff.
It's amazing.
These are all well-wrought,fully formed female characters.
(33:43):
Carol Ann is a five-year-oldgirl, so like yeah, sure, but
she's a five-year-old girl.
So in some ways it does genderreally well.
Also, this is Diane's movie.
She is the protagonist.
She is the hero of this movie,even though the first person we
see on screen is Steve.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
She's the one who saves her daughter, though, and
she knows that she's the onlyone who could, and she genuinely
.
I mean that tracks to me when Ithink about when my daughter
was five, like she's not goingwith anybody else, not even her
other parents, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And then, specifically, the moment when
she's in the pool, surrounded bythese bodies and terrified.
What she's really terrified foris her children.
Like, yes, it's horrifyingwhat's happening to her, but the
second she's out of the poolbecause the neighbor has pulled
her out and they're going.
Oh my god, what's going on,what's happening, what's
(34:37):
happening.
She's like I have to get to mychildren so she does not take a
second.
And when steve shows up, likethere's something seriously
going wrong at the house andlike he stops and like stares
and is like awestruck soundspositive, but like stricken and
it's just like get a move on,steve.
(34:58):
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Diane wouldn't pause.
So that is really really cool.
There's something really weirdabout this, though, in part
because of, like what I wastalking about, with what
poltergeists are associated withRight, so they were there for
the older daughter, dana.
(35:20):
No, Now, this film clearly makesit clear that it's about Carol
Ann.
However, when the workers arethere to dig the pool, Dana is
leaving for school and theystart doing the not just ogling
like hey, pretty, like love you,I love you.
(35:42):
They're catcalling the 16 yearold girl in her backyard at her
house.
Oh, that is nasty and so shelike, playfully, does, like this
thing where she she like onehand, one hand, one hand, one
hand, and then gives him thefinger Listeners who you
couldn't see.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
My sister just do that.
It was like the Macarena.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And Diane is witnessing this through the
window and just kind of likesmiles yes, it was the cost of
being female, and like you getthe impression of like, ah, she
handled it well, mm-hmm, yep,and so like there's a couple
other things.
So when Diane tells Dana, hey,we're going to be spending the
(36:27):
night at the Holiday Inn onRoute 74.
And Dana says, oh, I rememberthat one.
And Diane says you rememberthat Holiday and why?
And then Dana distracts her bytalking about her gray hair.
And when Dana gets back fromher date she's got a hickey on
her neck.
So there's this tension aboutsexuality.
(36:49):
The other thing that's reallyweird is they ask Steve when he
interviews the threeparapsychologists.
They ask him for everyone inthe house and their ages and he
says, well, there's my wife,diane.
She's 31.
No 32.
Dana is 16.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Good point, so like ew.
They were high schoolsweethearts.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
She got pregnant when they were in high school.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
And nothing is commented about that.
No one says anything about that.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
And nothing is commented about that.
No one says anything about that, but I personally, if I were
the 32-year-old mother of a16-year-old girl, probably be a
little worried About your16-year-old who's getting
hickeys and going to the motel.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
So which brings me to the thing that I think is
really interesting, because Ithink this story is a lot about
mothers and daughters, Mm-hmm.
So we do not see either Steveor Diane's mother.
She is mentioned because theysend Robbie to his grandmother's
house.
They don't say whether it'sSteve's mother or Diane's mother
or Diane's mother, but therelationship and the intimacy
(38:05):
that Diane and Dr Lesh createtogether is very mother-daughter
, with Lesh as the mother.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yes, because Dr Lesh is probably in her 50s.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, and she is very she's human because her hands
are shaking after they see theevidence for the first time.
She's very human, but she'salso comforting.
And so she has this sense ofauthority, but also like
humanity, and so the way thatthey talk to each other, the way
(38:32):
that they draw comfort fromeach other, is very
mother-daughter, and it was aninteresting thing to see,
because I don't recall seeingstuff like that in movies in the
1980s necessarily.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Well, women weren't friendly inmovies in the 80s.
They were only rivals.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
similar kind of like maternal energy.
That is just really, reallyfascinating.
And there's a point where sheeven has diane neal.
(39:22):
Now she does it because she'slike I'm gonna get whiplash and
staring up at you because of howsmall tangina is.
But there is this likehierarchy, but this kind of like
sense of supplication, even andseeing how she mothers carol
ann through handling tweety'sdeath you see what, what a good
(39:46):
parent diane is, but it feelslike she's missing a maternal
figure in her life diane'smissing a maternal figure.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Interesting, I don't have a solid answer, but my.
The furniture that is makingitself known right now is the
feminine archetypes of themaiden, mother and crown and the
ways in which, like lesh andtangina, come in as crones to
diane's mother and, I suppose,carol ann's maiden, because it
(40:18):
sounds like dana is kind of alittle bit absent, yeah from
from the storyline so it reallyties into, like it digs into
what is actually most importantin families, because, because at
some points they talk aboutlike we worked so hard for this
(40:40):
to get these trappings ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
You know the suburban house we're putting in a pool,
we've got a TV in every room,that's always on, all of these
sorts of things but what isactually most important for them
is each other.
And then you even see that withDr Lesch, this is something
(41:04):
she's been passionate aboutstudying this parapsychology.
When she actually encounters it, she is terrified.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And her primary objective is saving this family
and not capturing, not thescientific discovery, but saving
this family, yeah, yeah wedon't have a lot of time and I'm
really curious about what youlike, the thing that you told me
about poltergeist that I didn'tknow about this sort of
adolescent girl and the sort ofalmost like the menstrual ghosts
(41:34):
thing a question, and then thatCarol Ann is the focus, but we
have this sexually activeteenager at the same time.
What's happening there, do youthink?
Because I feel like it's a bitof a subversion in my mind.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I think some of it is how Steven Spielberg writes
movies.
An adorable five-year-oldblonde and blue-eyed and is just
absolutely fetching, is goingto get more butts in seats than
the typical poltergeist victim,which is a snarky adolescent
(42:13):
girl who is really, really hardto parent adolescent girl who is
really, really hard to parentright, who also are like of all
of like the identities, like asa society we do not mind
shitting on adolescent girlswhich is like part of where the
poltergeist mythos comes from.
It's because we don't likeadolescent girls we really don't
like as a society.
(42:34):
So yes, it a subversion, but Ithink that it's significant that
Dana is in the house, like itcould have just been Robbie and
Carol Ann, and that the storywouldn't have changed much.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Honestly, Right, because it sounds like Dana's
not actually an actor in theplot.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
So I think that that is like a manifestation of the
very discomfort that has broughtabout the poltergeist myth is
why we have this five-year-oldgirl Now I think another thing
that I think is really importantto point out people talk about
this movie being cursed.
Dominique Dunn, who played DanaI think she was about 21 when
(43:19):
this movie was filmed she waskilled about a year and a half
later when her ex-boyfriendstrangled her.
She was not able to get arestraining order on him, that
sort of thing.
It was, you know, very typicalintimate partner, partner
violence.
I don't think that that issomething we should gloss over,
(43:43):
because it is all part andparcel of it being perfectly
okay for this film to haveconstruction workers ogling her
when she's playing a 16 year oldyeah, in her own backyard home
and it just we just, it's just,it's played for like, not laughs
exactly, but just like.
(44:04):
Oh goodness.
Heather o'rourke, who playedcarol ann, died about six years
later.
She got some sort of terribleflu and she ended up having to
have surgery for it and she justdidn't survive it.
That is unrelated to any ofthis, but it is kind of tragic
(44:29):
to think that of the threechildren in this, only one
survived, and it was the boy.
Yeah, geez.
And that brings me to one thingthat I want to talk about
respect for the dead.
So I, prior to watching it forthis episode, I also remembered
it as a native american burialground.
It's not, but it's not not ifthey're coughing and headstones
(44:50):
and like he uses the termancient burial ground at some
point.
So he's like it's not like.
It's that meaning like.
Maybe that's why it's not like.
It's that meaning like Maybethat's why it's stuck in our
heads.
And I think the expectation inthe 1980s was that had it been a
Native American burial ground,it would have had protection or
different kind of protection.
So the one thing that I knewabout this movie was that Jo
(45:12):
Beth Williams in that scenewhere she's in the pool and
surrounded by the bodies it tookfour or five days to film that
and it sounds horrifying and shetalked about how she thought
that these were plasticskeletons.
They were real skeletons.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Did they not know what movie they were making?
Carol ann has more respect forthe dead with her little tweety
so I was doing some reading.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
The skeletons were from like a surgical supply in
the early 80s.
The choices were limited and itwas cheaper to get actual
surgical skeletons and then theybuilt them up to make them look
juicy.
But it is so ironic to me thatthis film is about how mr teague
(46:05):
had no respect for the dead andthen they're making actual
human beings.
Remains look juicier for filmand now, these were people who
donated their bodies to scienceor whatever, but science, not
Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
The movie Poltergeist is not science, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
So I honestly don't know how to think about that.
Now, you did bring up poorTweety.
This is why Steven Spielberg ismy hero.
They bury Tweety in thebackyard, in the garden.
It's on a Sunday.
The next day, monday, is whenthe caterpillar digger comes in
to dig and they turn up the dirtand you see the box with Tweety
(46:46):
in it get turned up.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
And it is like visual metaphors are perfect.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It's just so well done Like, yeah, there's some
foreshadowing.
So well done Wow.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Well, I know you have a hard stop, so I'm going to go
, even though we didn't quiteget to suburbia and the dangers
of television.
We'll leave that as somethingthat listeners you know.
Bring it to us in the commentswherever you're listening,
because there's more to saythere's a lot to say.
But we are out of time, so letme try and reflect back to you
some of the things that I heardabout Poltergeist, besides the
fact that it scared both of usand traumatized us.
(47:29):
So I heard a lot about storyconstruction and sort of the
beauty of story construction andhow good Steven Spielberg is at
it in many ways.
You've spent a lot of timereally talking about mothers and
daughters, whether literal orsort of found family mothers and
daughters relationships,insofar as we see Diane as a
(47:52):
very good mother who herselfneeds to be mothered, and so
she's mothered by both Dr Leshand Tangina.
Thank you, I want to sayTatiana, I knew that was wrong.
Tangina, and she is, as yousaid it, the hero of this story.
She's the protagonist, she isthe hero.
We see her do what needs to bedone without hesitation.
(48:13):
She goes into the goo place andis reborn with her daughter.
She climbs out of theterrifying swimming pool full of
actual dead bodies andimmediately goes to find her
children, unlike her husband whostands there like dumbstruck
for a moment before he figuresout what to do.
We also spent some time talkingabout sexuality and female
(48:38):
sexuality and adolescent girlsand the ways in which society
kind of hates them and is scaredof them, also wants to control
their sexuality and the waysthat this movie in some ways
subverted that by making CarolAnne the subject of the
poltergeist's kind of desire, ifyou will, but also had Dana in
the house and had us witness herbeing harassed and really like
(49:02):
her mom just being like that'show it goes, despite the fact
that I just said that her momwas a good mom.
Her mom was a good mom but alsoknew how society worked and
that was the cost of beingfemale.
So all of that is swirling likethe household possessions of
the people who live in thePoltergeist House.
I was surprised to learn thatthis movie was rated PG, though
(49:25):
it was before PG-13 existed, andyou named just how influential
it was.
That many films that are kindof canonical for you and me are
derivative or in some waysinfluenced, including
Ghostbusters, nightmare on ElmStreet and the Sixth Sense.
I'm sure there are others.
The last thing was that Iremember I'm sure there are
others the respect for the dead,that there's this like meta
(49:49):
irony maybe irony is the wrongword, but this meta kind of like
wrongness.
This whole movie is about howwe need to respect the dead
because there are things that wedon't understand.
And then Steve and Hooperactually like used legit human
remains for this film and likemy eyeballs are huge right now
(50:12):
oh, I forgot to name it PassesBackdale with flying colors.
Many, many conversations aboutbetween named female characters,
about things besides men.
What did I forget?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Just the why this is a personal film for us.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, right, right right, the fact that we saw it
when we were seven and fourrespectively.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
And, like I still remember very clearly some
scenes, and as did you, with theclown and the I was sure we
must have like turned the filmLike I did not think we saw it
to the end.
I was like, okay, I must havemisremembered, like that clown
is creepy, but it must not comeback in.
When it came back in at the endI was just like holy shit, dad.
What were you thinking, dad?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Sorry, we have respect for you, dad, you're
dead.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
We have respect for the dead on deep thoughts about.
We still do question your, yourparenting choices in 1983.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, oh my yeah all right, so who this?
Thank you, this was.
This was really fun, I'm oh no,no, that's okay, but I'm I am
glad to rehab the, the plotsynopsis I really am and the
fact that I remember the guypulling his face off.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That was the thing where I was like because I think
I texted you.
This is a lot.
This is both less scary andscarier than I expected, and
that was the part that wasscarier than I expected yeah,
yeah, who's who?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
so next week is it me or is it our guest?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I think it's our guest.
I think it's Ryan Cunningham,who I know through my writer's
group, who is a director.
She's bringing her deepthoughts on Rosemary's Baby.
So ooh another scary one.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Another one I'm scared of.
See you then See you then.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
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If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
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(52:10):
, of course, share the show withyour people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
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Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
(52:33):
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
I want to talk about how influential this film was.
Watching it now, I could seelike, oh my goodness,
ghostbusters was influenced bythis and Nightmare on Elm Street
was influenced by this, and theSixth Sense was influenced by
this, and, wowza, so much hastaken from this film that
traumatized me as afour-year-old.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1982 film Poltergeist withmy sister, tracy Guy-Decker, and
with you, let's dive in.
So, trace, I know you've seenthis movie because it was a
(01:04):
traumatic event from our earlychildhood.
It was the uh, just the fatherof the year award to our dad in
somewhere around 1983.
Do you want to tell the storyof how we both saw this movie
for the first time?
I feel like we've even talkedabout it on the show before,
like it was on cable, and we'relike, oh, it's a little girl
(01:26):
like us and we started watchingit, and this was back in the day
when, if you didn't have a TVguide, you didn't know what it
was you were watching, if youmissed the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Right, right, right, and then, and so we started
watching and like by the time werealized that it was a horror
movie, like dad was invested andand wouldn't let us turn it off
and we were too scared to leavethe room by ourselves.
It was 83.
Then I was like seven or eight.
I was four, I was four years old, okay, so I was seven.
(01:55):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
So I have to say I haven't seenit since then, but I have
pretty strong memories.
So in my head, the furniturethat's in my brain about
poltergeist is that they built ahouse on top of a native
american graveyard and theghosts, or the spirits of the
(02:18):
dead were like came through thetelevision, I think they sucked
the little girl into thetelevision and lots of hijinks
ensue and a dude like pulled hisface off in the in the mirror
and there was like static snowon the tv and like voices
underneath of it.
And that's what's in my head.
And it scared me so bad that Iam now 49 years old and no,
(02:40):
thank you, I don't want to watchthat movie.
Thank you, I don't want towatch that movie.
So that's what's in my headabout this movie.
But I have to ask, like it wasso traumatic, like why did you
want to go back to it?
Why are we, why are we talkingso?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I wanted to revisit it, in part because of my
experience watching Nightmare onElm Street.
Like that was the like oh deargod, no movie of my childhood
and I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed watching it andI have become a horror fan as
an adult and I knew I couldhandle it.
Now, you know so.
(03:16):
For years after that all youhad to do is say the word
poltergeist and I would climbthe walls and I, if I recall
correctly, I wouldn't go intoany room, even the bathroom, by
myself.
I had to have an adult with meat all times.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For a little while, yeah, and for years and years
and years.
Snow static on a televisionwould freak me the hell out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So I wanted to revisit it in part to exorcise
the demon, so to speak.
I wanted to revisit it in partto exercise the demon, so to
speak.
Yeah, and also because it islisted as, like, one of the best
horror movies ever made.
And I'm also a little bitcurious.
That was not a parentingdecision.
I could understand that Dadmade Like I get getting invested
(04:05):
in a movie.
I also get the fact that it wasa lot.
Get getting invested in a movie.
I also get the fact that it wasa lot harder to come by a movie
and yes, and like back then,with the cable like they would,
you know when they rerun it allthe time, like if hbo was
showing the movie, they wouldshow it again.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Your daughters are terrified.
And four and seven littledaughters are terrified.
And four and seven, your tinylittle daughters are terrified.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So part of it was like what was it about this
movie that dad found socompelling?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That he was willing to risk our well-being for it.
Fair, fair and listeners, ourdad is not around anymore.
We cannot ask him.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I really I wish I had thought to do that, Although I
kind of feel like dad would dothis thing where he would kind
of deny the not super great.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Totally, he would have totally denied it.
He would totally have denied itand, like I think he would have
convinced himself that thisdidn't actually happen, I can
remember when my older son wastwo years old, we were in
Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We met with dad in Pittsburgh sometime around
Christmas.
We could spend a little timewith him.
We got an Airbnb for everybodyand so there was a Pittsburgh so
hilly.
There was a car stuck at thebottom of the hill that couldn't
get up because it was so icyand it was a mom and grandmother
and a little baby like about myson's age in the back seat and
both the mom and grandma weresmoking and like he said to them
(05:30):
, like he helped them get thecar going, and then said to him
like shouldn't be smoking infront of that baby, and I was
just like you, hypocrite, yousmoked with me in the back of
the car.
Now, you didn't know better in1983, but you did it, and the
only reason he stopped wasbecause he almost died of a
heart attack.
It wasn't for our well-beingAnyway let's get to Poltergeist,
(05:52):
so that's why I was thinkingabout it.
So there's some things I wantto talk about that I find very
interesting, partially because Ilove haunted house stories.
I love the lore behindPoltergeists, in part because
the lore behind poltergeists, inpart because the lore behind
poltergeists surroundsadolescent girls in particular,
and it is a oh, yeah, really.
(06:13):
Yeah, I had no idea.
The mythology of poltergeistsis that they occur specifically
when a girl basically reachespuberty and it's Huh, they're
like menstrual ghosts.
Um, and it's this sense that,upon reaching that kind of
maturity, there's this, like itsends off this right, energy,
(06:36):
energy.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There's this power that cannot be contained.
So, which is just, absolutely.
Wasn't the child in the in the,isn't the child?
In the movie like our agethough.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Like seven at the time.
We'll get there, okay, cool.
So that's one of the reasonswhy I want to talk about it, but
there's a lot to go into it.
Now.
This story was written bySteven Spielberg and my God,
that man does story constructionright.
He does such good storyconstruction.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, spielberg movie, he.
(07:08):
It's unclear how much he had todo with the directing of it,
because, oh, he's a screenwriterand the he's one of them, he,
the story is by him, and then hewas the screenwriter with like
two other people toby hooper isthe director who had directed
the texas chainsaw massacre, butspielberg was on set and like,
(07:31):
definitely threw his weightaround, so it's his movie, huh.
so there's that aspect to it.
There's a lot about like familyand suburbia and like the fear
of technology, specificallytelevision, and there is this
(07:52):
question of respect for the dead, that part that you remembered
of what happened, why they werebeing haunted.
The idea of mothers anddaughters in particular, and not
necessarily biological mothersand daughters.
There's this really interestingthrough line of mothers and
daughters.
And I want to talk about howinfluential this film was.
Watching it now, I could seelike, oh my goodness,
(08:15):
ghostbusters was influenced bythis, and Nightmare on Elm
Street was influenced by this,and the Sixth Sense was
influenced by this and, wowza,so much has taken from this film
that traumatized me as afour-year-old.
So, considering you don't reallyremember it, I'll kind of give
(08:37):
you the plot.
Yes, please do so.
It takes place in oh, I'veforgotten the name of it, but it
takes place in this plannedcommunity.
It's not Queso Verde, becausethat would be green cheese.
It means Green Hill in Spanish.
I looked it up but I don'tremember the word because I
don't speak Spanish.
It's this planned something.
Verde Planned community.
(08:58):
All the houses look exactly thesame.
It's this, you know, 1980ssuburban wonderland.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, Exactly Kachunka houses we used to call
them.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And so we meet the Freeling family.
There's the father, steve,played by Craig T Nelson, who,
my goodness, was a handsomeyoung man.
I did not know.
Huh, yeah, that's a surprise.
The mother whose name is Diane,played by Jo Beth Williams, who
is phenomenal.
There's the eldest daughter,played by Jo Beth Williams, who
is phenomenal.
There's the eldest daughter,played by Dominique Dunn.
(09:34):
Her name is Dana.
The middle child is Robbie,played by I cannot remember the
actor's name, and then theyoungest child, so Dana is 16,
Robbie is 8, and Carol Ann, thelittle girl with the blonde hair
and blue eyes, who is adorable.
She is five and she's played byHeather O'Rourke.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
She was, she was right between us.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So she was very much like we saw her.
We're like Landsman.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Mishpocha One of us, mishpocha.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, the blonde blonde girl.
She was Mishpocha.
So in the very first sceneSteve has fallen asleep in front
(10:27):
of the TV.
Blonde blonde girl in themorning.
So Steve has fallen asleep andwe do this again.
Spielberg or this might havebeen Hooper does this amazing
thing where the dog comes andtries to see if there's any
snacks left in the chair whereSteve is sitting.
Then he goes up and visitseveryone in the house.
So you get to be introduced toeveryone in the house through
the dog.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Through the dog's travel.
Oh my God, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I love it, and it's hilarious because Dana, the
teenager, has an entire bag ofchips under her pillow.
I have a teenage girl in myhouse that tracks, wakes up and
comes downstairs and sits at thetelevision, puts her hands on
(11:04):
it to the static and startstalking to it, saying I can't
hear you, I can't hear your name, and then starts answering
questions Five, yes, I don'tknow.
And then she starts shouting,which wakes the whole family up
and they come downstairs.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I remember that, those hands on the TV screen.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Stuff of nightmares.
It's the weekend.
That must have been a Saturdaynight.
The next day is Sunday.
Steve is watching a footballgame with several of the other
men in the neighborhood.
Right there in his living room,Diane is cleaning the house and
she finds that Tweety, the petbird that lived in Robbie and
Carol Ann's house, has died.
And she says oh, Tweety,couldn't you have waited for a
(11:46):
school day?
That's so real.
So she initially wants to justflush it, but Carol Ann catches
her and so they end up buryingit in a box.
And they have a very cute thingwhere Carol Ann says like it
smells bad, tweety doesn't likehow it smells, and her mom's
(12:06):
like Tweety can't smell anymoreand we'll put a flower in it.
And then she puts licorice inin case he gets hungry, and like
a little napkin in for bedtimeand a picture of the family from
case he gets lonely.
And so they bury the box in thebackyard while Robbie is
climbing the tree right next towhere they're doing it and
(12:28):
making fun, and Dana is kind ofmaking fun too.
But as soon as they've buriedTweety, caroline goes can I have
a goldfish now?
So really like got the familydynamics down Tracks, tracks.
So at bedtime that night CarolAnn has two new goldfish.
(12:50):
They're going to bed.
There is a clown, which, let metell you, this was the thing
that I remembered most from thismovie.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
There's a clown in this film.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's a clown doll yeah.
Oh, okay, so there's, a clownthat sits in a chair in the
bedroom, and so diane puts thekids to bed.
There's a storm coming.
Robbie's a little worried aboutit and diane's like, no, no,
it'll be fine.
So they, uh, put the light onin the closet because caroline
insists on that and then turnsoff the light in the in the
(13:23):
their, in their quiet for alittle while Robbie's getting
freaked out about the clown sohe throws his jacket over it.
Smart move, rob, smart move.
And we see Steve and Diane justkind of talking.
They're smoking a jointtogether in bed.
Kind of talking.
(13:46):
They're smoking a jointtogether in bed.
And Diane is reading through abook on psychology, talking
about how nocturnal somnambulism, sleepwalking, may be genetic.
And she tells a story of howshe went sleepwalking when she
was 10 years old and went likethree blocks and ended up
falling asleep in the back ofthe car of some guy.
She just got in and then wentback to sleep in there and the
(14:07):
guy didn't even realize she wasthere until he got to work and
then she started screaming andyeah, it's this whole story.
So and it's like, okay, sothat's what's going on with
carol ann is what they'rethinking.
And so then she says oh my god,what happens if she like falls
into the the pool, and so that'show it's introduced to us that
they're thinking.
And so then she says oh my god,what happens if she like falls
into the the pool, and so that'show it's introduced to us that
(14:29):
they're putting a pool in thebackyard.
Oh, based on what I remember,that's bad news so and steve is
is reassuring her.
it's fine, that's nothing,that's not gonna happen, and
they're like giggling and stufflike that.
Robbie comes in scared becausethe storm seems to be getting
stronger and Steve takes himback to his room, tells him like
when you see lightning, countuntil you hear the thunder and
(14:53):
if you have to count longer eachtime, it means the storm's
going away.
I learned that from.
Poltergeist, holy cow, andRobbie also says he's really
scared about the tree that'sright outside the window.
He's like it knows I live here.
It's like reaching for me.
And Steve says like well, yeah,it is a very old tree and we
(15:13):
built the house right herebecause it's a wise old tree and
it does know us because it'sbeen here so long.
But that's why I built thehouse here and so that's how you
learn that Steve has somethingto do with this development.
The next day some weird stuffhappens, like a glass shatters
when it shouldn't have somesilverware, like kind of bends
(15:34):
randomly.
And then the two older kids gooff to school and Diane has told
all the kids like please pushthe chairs in at the kitchen
table because the dog will getinto the food if they don't.
And she told them to do that.
They'd been pushed in.
And she comes back down afteryou know, running around doing
whatever, and all the chairs arepulled out and she turns to
Carol Ann and says oh gosh,that's right.
(15:56):
Anyway, she turns to Carol Annand says did you do that?
She says no and she turnsaround for a second to go like
she's pushed all the chairs in.
She's turned around for like asecond, comes back and the
chairs are piled on top of thetable in a way that would have
been impossible.
That ain't for anybody to do.
For any one person to do, ohLike it was so quick.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Because it was so quick, yeah, yeah Well, that
ain't creepy, it's super creepy.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Something I've forgotten.
The storm got stronger and sothe kids ended up sleeping in
the parents' bed and in themiddle of the night they had
left the TV on.
Tv's constantly on in thishouse.
They'd left the TV on.
The static is going.
Caroline got up and, you know,did the thing again and as she's
(16:45):
watching, like a hand comes outof the TV, flies around and
then like goes into the wall andthen there's like an earthquake
and then caroline goes.
They're here.
Do you remember that?
oh my god, my blood pressurejust spiked so anyway, chairs
are weird, doing the weird thing, and Diana's actually delighted
by this, so she thinks it'sreally cool.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
She doesn't know what genre movie she's in obviously
we see Steve at work.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
He is basically a realtor for this development.
We later learn he's responsiblefor 42% of all sales and we see
that every single house isliterally exactly the same.
So he gets home from work andshe meets him outside.
She says Steve, come with mevery quickly.
I need you to see this.
Don't say anything.
Remember back in our distantpast when you had an open mind.
(17:37):
And so she takes him to thekitchen.
She's like drawn some things onthe floor like a circle and
arrows.
She puts one of the kitchenchairs in the circle.
She's like, drawn some thingson the floor like a circle and
arrows.
She puts one of the kitchenchairs in the circle.
She's like just wait, just wait, just wait.
And then it pulls away andshe's like isn't that amazing?
So then she has like a bikehelmet that she puts on Carol
Ann and she puts Carol Ann onthe circle and then Carol Ann
(18:00):
gets pulled to the other sideand she has like Steve, catch
her.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Diane describes it.
It's like this itchy feelingthat pulls you Because Diane has
done it too.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Diane has done it too .
We just don't see it.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh, they go to their next door neighbor, like have
you had any disturbances?
Nope, nothing.
We have seen that day.
The crew is coming and has dugjust the hole for the swimming
pool.
So that's just hanging out backthere, just a giant pit.
That night there is anotherstorm and again Diane is like
(18:36):
isn't it amazing, like there'sthings we don't understand about
this world.
And this is the other thing.
It was the clown.
And then the other thing thetree breaks into the room and
grabs Robbie out of his bed andis trying to eat him.
That scared the absolute shitout of me.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So I vaguely remember , like the gnarled branches, as
like hands.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So the parents run in and see him being pulled out.
Carol Ann is still in her bed.
The parents and Dana runoutside to try to get to Robbie.
They're like freaking outtrying to get to Robbie.
As that happens, things startswirling and being pulled into
the closet in the kid's bedroomand being pulled into the closet
(19:28):
in the kid's bedroom and CarolAnn has this headboard that's
like.
It's like this decorativeheadboard and she's holding onto
it and being pulledhorizontally and calling for her
parents.
But because they're screamingfor Robbie and terrified for
their son, they're not hearing.
So they are like fighting to get, get robbie back.
He's like halfway down thegullet of this tree thing,
(19:51):
there's a tornado coming.
So they manage to get robbieout.
The tornado takes the tree upand away and they they go oh
crap, where's carol ann?
And so they go up into the room.
At that point the beds even areup against the door to the
closet because they've beenpulled that way, but nothing's
being pulled anymore.
(20:12):
So they go into the closet andthey're like oh my God, oh my
God, oh my God.
And they find a figure that'scovered in a blanket going like
is she okay?
What's going on?
And they pull the blanket offand it's the clown.
So they start lookingeverywhere.
Steve won't let Dana or Robbiego into the kitchen because he's
(20:35):
freaked out about what wasgoing on with that.
Robbie is very traumatized.
He's covered in muck and cutsand bruises and stuff and he
wanders into his parents' roomwhere the TV is still on and he
can hear Carol Ann's voicecoming through the TV.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, she's in the TV .
I remember her being in the TVcoming through the TV.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, she's in the TV .
I remember her being in the TV.
Next scene, Steve has gone to auniversity and is consulting
with three parapsychologiststhere's Dr Lesch, Marty and Ryan
.
Dr Lesch is a woman played by,oh, her last name is Straight
Brenda Straight, I think andshe's amazing.
And so they take hisinformation and she's like well,
(21:19):
you know, we may not be able tofind out what's going on.
He's like we don't care, wejust want our little girl back.
And she says can you keep thisfrom the media?
He's like we don't want to tellanyone about it because all we
want is our daughter back.
We haven't even gone to thepolice because we know they
won't believe us.
So they go to the house andthey are telling them like, well
(21:40):
, we do have some experiencewith this.
You know I got Ryan was sayinglike I got film footage of a
matchbox car traveling on itsown about seven feet.
And he's like, oh, okay.
He's like, yeah, it took aboutseven hours.
Like what do you mean?
It took seven hours, Well, toget from one end to the other
the seven feet.
And he's like, oh, okay, he'slike, yeah, it took about seven
hours.
Like what do you mean, it tookseven hours, well, to get from
one end to the other the sevenfeet.
But if you look at it from timelapse, it's amazing and he's
(22:03):
like uh-huh.
And so then he opens the doorto the kids room where
everything's floating and movingaround and like all three of
the parapsychologists are likewe're not prepared for this.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, that definitely sounds like Ghostbusters.
Ray the sponge has migratedabout three feet.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So they set up cameras and everything.
They are now everyone'ssleeping downstairs.
They've closed off that room.
They try to contact Carol Annand are able to speak to her.
She responds most to Diane.
She says there's a light andshe's scared of it.
And Dr Lesh says do not gotowards the light.
And so they are basicallywaiting to see what happens
(22:48):
overnight, because things arehappened much more after dark.
So the kids go to sleep.
I think Dana goes to a friend'shouse to sleep, robbie stays
there with his parents.
They're all sleeping there inthe living room and Dr Lesh and
Diane have this conversation.
That is just amazing about whatit is they're doing.
How terrified Dr Lesh is.
(23:09):
She has a PhD in psychology butshe's spent her life on this
hobby of hers, because nobodycan get a PhD in parapsychology,
and that she never actuallyanticipated seeing this.
And Dr Lesch kind of explainsher belief, which is that ghosts
are people who either don'trealize that they have died, and
(23:33):
so they feel jealousy and angertowards the living because they
can't enjoy the things that theliving enjoy.
And so Carol Ann has thisamazing life force and they're
drawn to that and so they're notletting her go and they need to
go to the light to be able tomove on.
(23:54):
So in the middle of the night,that thing with the peeling the
face off, so Marty goes into thekitchen to get something to eat
.
In the middle of the night hepulls out an entire steak out of
the fridge like he's going tocook it for himself.
But it's just like visualshortcuts I get, but it's just
like it should have been wrappedin something Anyway, and he's
(24:20):
chewing on a chicken wing orsomething.
He finds a chicken wing andhe's chewing on that, and so he
puts the steak just straight onthe counter, nothing underneath
of it.
He didn't care about foodsafety in the early 80s,
apparently, and this is theother thing that's very
Ghostbusters.
The steak starts moving acrossthe counter.
And then like it explodes withlike putrescence and then, like
(24:46):
he freaks out and like opens hismouth, the chicken wing falls
and like it's covered in maggotsand then he goes into like
there's like a sink, like autility sink, in another room,
and he like throws up into itand then he's got blood coming
out of his face and he startsclawing his own face and then
all of a sudden his face isnormal again and it's been this
(25:06):
like hallucination.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I remember that scene vividly.
It was very disturbing toseven-year-old me.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It was very disturbing to seven-year-old me.
He goes back into the livingroom where Ryan is listening to
music and so is not realizingthat something's going on.
And there are these etherealspirits coming down the stairs
and they're beautiful but alsoterrifying.
So they managed to catch allthat on camera.
And then that's the end of thenight.
So the next morning Dr Leshsays I have to go, I will come
(25:39):
back.
Marty's not coming back with me, he's not okay, ryan will come
back and I'm bringing help.
Steve's boss shows up, mr Teague, and says come take a ride with
me.
Steve has said that he has theflu, that's why he's not coming
in and he looks like shit.
So it looks correct.
The boss is afraid that Steveis trying to find another job,
(26:04):
so he takes him up to the top ofthis hill where you can see the
entire valley, where Issa Verdeor Que Soverde is, and we know
that they are already startingphase four and Steve and Diane's
house was part of phase one.
And so they're at the top ofthe hill and Mr Teague says like
(26:25):
imagine if this were your view.
And Steve says well, that wouldbe great for the person living
up here, but not so great forthe people in the valley.
And Mr Teague's like well, youdon't have to live in the valley
anymore, you could live here.
He's like we should have madeyou partner three years ago.
You're responsible for 42% ofthe sales and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And then Steve turns around andthere's this giant cemetery
(26:46):
behind him and he says I don'tknow if this is the right place
for housing.
Mr Teague says it's not, likeit's an ancient burial ground
and we've done it.
Before Phase one there was acemetery there and we moved it.
It's five minutes down the road.
Who's going to complain?
(27:21):
And Steve's like seems not okay, but I guess if nobody's
complained.
So that evening dr lesh bringstangina I think tangina baron,
played by zelda, zeldarubinstein, who is this tiny
little woman with this very highvoice who is so freaking badass
.
Do you remember her?
oh, I, she's a she's, she'solder like like middle-aged or
like like maybe 60s or early 60s.
Yes, I remember and so stevethinks she's completely delulu
(27:47):
and so she heads upstairs.
She's like you're jamming myfrequencies, like you know, give
me, give me some space.
She heads upstairs and shecalls down like so, what was in
this locked room?
And so Steve is like notanswering her and Diane's like
what are you doing?
He's like I'm answering her inmy mind.
And so they get him to it'swhere my son and daughter slept.
(28:10):
And then they're like yellingat him like hey, why are you not
?
But whispering like youshouldn't be doing that.
And he's like well, I justdon't think you know she can
actually read mind or whatever.
And then she calls from the topof the stairs like no, I heard
you.
I just don't like trick answers.
So like so she proves herselfright.
Then she says I can get yourdaughter back.
(28:33):
There are spirits that need tomove on.
You need to do everything I say.
But in addition to the spirits,there is a beast.
The beast has made itself seemlike a child and your child has
made itself a playmate for yourchild and she's in danger.
But we need to go through thatcloset to get her.
So they set up there's a portalbasically between the closet to
(28:58):
the living room and somewhere inbetween there is the in-between
place where everything is.
So they send a couple of tennisballs through to test it and
then they send a rope throughthat is like tied at both ends
so that it can be followed.
And then Tangina was going togo to get Carol Ann, but she's a
five-year-old girl and Dianesays no, no, no, you don't know
(29:20):
her, I have to go.
And Steve offers and she's likeyou're the only one strong
enough to hold the rope.
So Diane goes through, tanginais telling him don't let go,
don't let go, you know, don'tpull her back, whatever.
And then the beast appears andis like roaring at steve and he
(29:41):
freaks out like let's go of therope so it has enough slack so
that she can fall down.
And in the living room is dianeholding carol ann covered in
gook.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
it's very like birth coated uh, uh-huh and like
ectoplasm, like Ghostbustersyeah it's ectoplasm.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
So they take them to the bathtub and clean them off
and they start breathing.
Everything seems to be okay.
They are packing the next dayto leave.
I guess Steve has to go quit.
He's already told his boss goto hell, but he won't take that
for an answer.
So Diane says what are yougoing to tell him?
He says I'm going to give himdirections.
But the plan is they'resleeping at the Holiday Inn down
(30:25):
the road that night.
But they've packed up themoving truck and you know like
if the kids conk out, that'sfine, let them sleep.
But we're going to gathereveryone up, get in the car and
go.
This evening Diane has gottengray in her hair overnight so
she is like dyeing it and takinga bath and dyeing it.
And she asks Robbie.
And Tangina has declared thehouse is now clean.
(30:47):
So she's asked Robbie and CarolAnn to put themselves to bed.
She's going to take a bath andthey go to bed.
And that's when the clown comesalive.
And that's when I was just likeI really did watch this whole
goddamn movie, because this isthe thing that scared the crap
out of me.
Dandina was wrong, the spiritshad left, but the beast had not.
(31:08):
So the clown comes live and,wrapped it like, leaves its
chair and then wraps its armaround Robbie and is pulling him
under the bed.
The closet door opens and ispulling the kids.
At this point Diane is out ofthe bath, she's in her nightgown
and she starts being pulled upthe wall.
So this is what was veryNightmare on Elm Street.
(31:30):
She fights her way down and istrying to get to the kids and
the house is like pushing herout.
She ends up in the backyard.
She can't get in, falls intothe pool, the pit and coffins
and dead bodies.
She manages to get out with thehelp of the neighbor.
She goes back in.
(31:51):
Just barely managed to get thekids out.
Steve returns with Mr Teague.
At that point Dana is on a datewe know and is going to get a
ride home from her date.
And now bodies are fallingeverywhere and Steve has to try
to fight to get to his family.
They run around to the backyardand see all the bodies and
(32:15):
Steve says oh my God, mr Teague,you moved the headstones but
left the bodies.
You built this neighborhoodright over those bodies.
They managed to get the wholefamily into the car and get out
of there and the house likesucks into itself.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Like gets imploded down into the ground.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Just as Dana shows up , they get in the car and run
and meanwhile he's saying don'tlook back, don't look back to
the whole family.
They get to the motel, they getinto the room and the last
thing you see is him wheelingthe tv out and leaving it
outside, in the hallway or inthe.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's remarkable how much Iremember these 42 years later.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It was traumatic.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
This movie was.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
PG.
I cannot believe that this wasbefore PG-13 existed, but still,
holy moly, all right.
Okay, let's start with Bechdel,because we always do so.
Listeners, as a reminder, theBechdel test asks three
questions.
Are there at least two femalecharacters with names?
(33:21):
Do they talk to each other, anddo they talk to each other
about something other than a manor a boy?
Passes with flying colors.
Diane talks to Dana and CarolAnn.
Dr Lesh and Diane talk, tanginaand Diane talk about everything
, all kinds of stuff.
It's amazing.
These are all well-wrought,fully formed female characters.
(33:43):
Carol Ann is a five-year-oldgirl, so like yeah, sure, but
she's a five-year-old girl.
So in some ways it does genderreally well.
Also, this is Diane's movie.
She is the protagonist.
She is the hero of this movie,even though the first person we
see on screen is Steve.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
She's the one who saves her daughter, though, and
she knows that she's the onlyone who could, and she genuinely
.
I mean that tracks to me when Ithink about when my daughter
was five, like she's not goingwith anybody else, not even her
other parents, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And then, specifically, the moment when
she's in the pool, surrounded bythese bodies and terrified.
What she's really terrified foris her children.
Like, yes, it's horrifyingwhat's happening to her, but the
second she's out of the poolbecause the neighbor has pulled
her out and they're going.
Oh my god, what's going on,what's happening, what's
(34:37):
happening.
She's like I have to get to mychildren so she does not take a
second.
And when steve shows up, likethere's something seriously
going wrong at the house andlike he stops and like stares
and is like awestruck soundspositive, but like stricken and
it's just like get a move on,steve.
(34:58):
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Diane wouldn't pause.
So that is really really cool.
There's something really weirdabout this, though, in part
because of, like what I wastalking about, with what
poltergeists are associated withRight, so they were there for
the older daughter, dana.
(35:20):
No, Now, this film clearly makesit clear that it's about Carol
Ann.
However, when the workers arethere to dig the pool, Dana is
leaving for school and theystart doing the not just ogling
like hey, pretty, like love you,I love you.
(35:42):
They're catcalling the 16 yearold girl in her backyard at her
house.
Oh, that is nasty and so shelike, playfully, does, like this
thing where she she like onehand, one hand, one hand, one
hand, and then gives him thefinger Listeners who you
couldn't see.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
My sister just do that.
It was like the Macarena.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And Diane is witnessing this through the
window and just kind of likesmiles yes, it was the cost of
being female, and like you getthe impression of like, ah, she
handled it well, mm-hmm, yep,and so like there's a couple
other things.
So when Diane tells Dana, hey,we're going to be spending the
(36:27):
night at the Holiday Inn onRoute 74.
And Dana says, oh, I rememberthat one.
And Diane says you rememberthat Holiday and why?
And then Dana distracts her bytalking about her gray hair.
And when Dana gets back fromher date she's got a hickey on
her neck.
So there's this tension aboutsexuality.
(36:49):
The other thing that's reallyweird is they ask Steve when he
interviews the threeparapsychologists.
They ask him for everyone inthe house and their ages and he
says, well, there's my wife,diane.
She's 31.
No 32.
Dana is 16.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Good point, so like ew.
They were high schoolsweethearts.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
She got pregnant when they were in high school.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
And nothing is commented about that.
No one says anything about that.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
And nothing is commented about that.
No one says anything about that, but I personally, if I were
the 32-year-old mother of a16-year-old girl, probably be a
little worried About your16-year-old who's getting
hickeys and going to the motel.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
So which brings me to the thing that I think is
really interesting, because Ithink this story is a lot about
mothers and daughters, Mm-hmm.
So we do not see either Steveor Diane's mother.
She is mentioned because theysend Robbie to his grandmother's
house.
They don't say whether it'sSteve's mother or Diane's mother
or Diane's mother, but therelationship and the intimacy
(38:05):
that Diane and Dr Lesh createtogether is very mother-daughter
, with Lesh as the mother.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yes, because Dr Lesh is probably in her 50s.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, and she is very she's human because her hands
are shaking after they see theevidence for the first time.
She's very human, but she'salso comforting.
And so she has this sense ofauthority, but also like
humanity, and so the way thatthey talk to each other, the way
(38:32):
that they draw comfort fromeach other, is very
mother-daughter, and it was aninteresting thing to see,
because I don't recall seeingstuff like that in movies in the
1980s necessarily.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Well, women weren't friendly inmovies in the 80s.
They were only rivals.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
similar kind of like maternal energy.
That is just really, reallyfascinating.
And there's a point where sheeven has diane neal.
(39:22):
Now she does it because she'slike I'm gonna get whiplash and
staring up at you because of howsmall tangina is.
But there is this likehierarchy, but this kind of like
sense of supplication, even andseeing how she mothers carol
ann through handling tweety'sdeath you see what, what a good
(39:46):
parent diane is, but it feelslike she's missing a maternal
figure in her life diane'smissing a maternal figure.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Interesting, I don't have a solid answer, but my.
The furniture that is makingitself known right now is the
feminine archetypes of themaiden, mother and crown and the
ways in which, like lesh andtangina, come in as crones to
diane's mother and, I suppose,carol ann's maiden, because it
(40:18):
sounds like dana is kind of alittle bit absent, yeah from
from the storyline so it reallyties into, like it digs into
what is actually most importantin families, because, because at
some points they talk aboutlike we worked so hard for this
(40:40):
to get these trappings ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
You know the suburban house we're putting in a pool,
we've got a TV in every room,that's always on, all of these
sorts of things but what isactually most important for them
is each other.
And then you even see that withDr Lesch, this is something
(41:04):
she's been passionate aboutstudying this parapsychology.
When she actually encounters it, she is terrified.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And her primary objective is saving this family
and not capturing, not thescientific discovery, but saving
this family, yeah, yeah wedon't have a lot of time and I'm
really curious about what youlike, the thing that you told me
about poltergeist that I didn'tknow about this sort of
adolescent girl and the sort ofalmost like the menstrual ghosts
(41:34):
thing a question, and then thatCarol Ann is the focus, but we
have this sexually activeteenager at the same time.
What's happening there, do youthink?
Because I feel like it's a bitof a subversion in my mind.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I think some of it is how Steven Spielberg writes
movies.
An adorable five-year-oldblonde and blue-eyed and is just
absolutely fetching, is goingto get more butts in seats than
the typical poltergeist victim,which is a snarky adolescent
(42:13):
girl who is really, really hardto parent adolescent girl who is
really, really hard to parentright, who also are like of all
of like the identities, like asa society we do not mind
shitting on adolescent girlswhich is like part of where the
poltergeist mythos comes from.
It's because we don't likeadolescent girls we really don't
like as a society.
(42:34):
So yes, it a subversion, but Ithink that it's significant that
Dana is in the house, like itcould have just been Robbie and
Carol Ann, and that the storywouldn't have changed much.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Honestly, Right, because it sounds like Dana's
not actually an actor in theplot.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
So I think that that is like a manifestation of the
very discomfort that has broughtabout the poltergeist myth is
why we have this five-year-oldgirl Now I think another thing
that I think is really importantto point out people talk about
this movie being cursed.
Dominique Dunn, who played DanaI think she was about 21 when
(43:19):
this movie was filmed she waskilled about a year and a half
later when her ex-boyfriendstrangled her.
She was not able to get arestraining order on him, that
sort of thing.
It was, you know, very typicalintimate partner, partner
violence.
I don't think that that issomething we should gloss over,
(43:43):
because it is all part andparcel of it being perfectly
okay for this film to haveconstruction workers ogling her
when she's playing a 16 year oldyeah, in her own backyard home
and it just we just, it's just,it's played for like, not laughs
exactly, but just like.
(44:04):
Oh goodness.
Heather o'rourke, who playedcarol ann, died about six years
later.
She got some sort of terribleflu and she ended up having to
have surgery for it and she justdidn't survive it.
That is unrelated to any ofthis, but it is kind of tragic
(44:29):
to think that of the threechildren in this, only one
survived, and it was the boy.
Yeah, geez.
And that brings me to one thingthat I want to talk about
respect for the dead.
So I, prior to watching it forthis episode, I also remembered
it as a native american burialground.
It's not, but it's not not ifthey're coughing and headstones
(44:50):
and like he uses the termancient burial ground at some
point.
So he's like it's not like.
It's that meaning like.
Maybe that's why it's not like.
It's that meaning like Maybethat's why it's stuck in our
heads.
And I think the expectation inthe 1980s was that had it been a
Native American burial ground,it would have had protection or
different kind of protection.
So the one thing that I knewabout this movie was that Jo
(45:12):
Beth Williams in that scenewhere she's in the pool and
surrounded by the bodies it tookfour or five days to film that
and it sounds horrifying and shetalked about how she thought
that these were plasticskeletons.
They were real skeletons.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Did they not know what movie they were making?
Carol ann has more respect forthe dead with her little tweety
so I was doing some reading.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
The skeletons were from like a surgical supply in
the early 80s.
The choices were limited and itwas cheaper to get actual
surgical skeletons and then theybuilt them up to make them look
juicy.
But it is so ironic to me thatthis film is about how mr teague
(46:05):
had no respect for the dead andthen they're making actual
human beings.
Remains look juicier for filmand now, these were people who
donated their bodies to scienceor whatever, but science, not
Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
The movie Poltergeist is not science, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
So I honestly don't know how to think about that.
Now, you did bring up poorTweety.
This is why Steven Spielberg ismy hero.
They bury Tweety in thebackyard, in the garden.
It's on a Sunday.
The next day, monday, is whenthe caterpillar digger comes in
to dig and they turn up the dirtand you see the box with Tweety
(46:46):
in it get turned up.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
And it is like visual metaphors are perfect.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It's just so well done Like, yeah, there's some
foreshadowing.
So well done Wow.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Well, I know you have a hard stop, so I'm going to go
, even though we didn't quiteget to suburbia and the dangers
of television.
We'll leave that as somethingthat listeners you know.
Bring it to us in the commentswherever you're listening,
because there's more to saythere's a lot to say.
But we are out of time, so letme try and reflect back to you
some of the things that I heardabout Poltergeist, besides the
fact that it scared both of usand traumatized us.
(47:29):
So I heard a lot about storyconstruction and sort of the
beauty of story construction andhow good Steven Spielberg is at
it in many ways.
You've spent a lot of timereally talking about mothers and
daughters, whether literal orsort of found family mothers and
daughters relationships,insofar as we see Diane as a
(47:52):
very good mother who herselfneeds to be mothered, and so
she's mothered by both Dr Leshand Tangina.
Thank you, I want to sayTatiana, I knew that was wrong.
Tangina, and she is, as yousaid it, the hero of this story.
She's the protagonist, she isthe hero.
We see her do what needs to bedone without hesitation.
(48:13):
She goes into the goo place andis reborn with her daughter.
She climbs out of theterrifying swimming pool full of
actual dead bodies andimmediately goes to find her
children, unlike her husband whostands there like dumbstruck
for a moment before he figuresout what to do.
We also spent some time talkingabout sexuality and female
(48:38):
sexuality and adolescent girlsand the ways in which society
kind of hates them and is scaredof them, also wants to control
their sexuality and the waysthat this movie in some ways
subverted that by making CarolAnne the subject of the
poltergeist's kind of desire, ifyou will, but also had Dana in
the house and had us witness herbeing harassed and really like
(49:02):
her mom just being like that'show it goes, despite the fact
that I just said that her momwas a good mom.
Her mom was a good mom but alsoknew how society worked and
that was the cost of beingfemale.
So all of that is swirling likethe household possessions of
the people who live in thePoltergeist House.
I was surprised to learn thatthis movie was rated PG, though
(49:25):
it was before PG-13 existed, andyou named just how influential
it was.
That many films that are kindof canonical for you and me are
derivative or in some waysinfluenced, including
Ghostbusters, nightmare on ElmStreet and the Sixth Sense.
I'm sure there are others.
The last thing was that Iremember I'm sure there are
others the respect for the dead,that there's this like meta
(49:49):
irony maybe irony is the wrongword, but this meta kind of like
wrongness.
This whole movie is about howwe need to respect the dead
because there are things that wedon't understand.
And then Steve and Hooperactually like used legit human
remains for this film and likemy eyeballs are huge right now
(50:12):
oh, I forgot to name it PassesBackdale with flying colors.
Many, many conversations aboutbetween named female characters,
about things besides men.
What did I forget?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Just the why this is a personal film for us.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, right, right right, the fact that we saw it
when we were seven and fourrespectively.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
And, like I still remember very clearly some
scenes, and as did you, with theclown and the I was sure we
must have like turned the filmLike I did not think we saw it
to the end.
I was like, okay, I must havemisremembered, like that clown
is creepy, but it must not comeback in.
When it came back in at the endI was just like holy shit, dad.
What were you thinking, dad?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Sorry, we have respect for you, dad, you're
dead.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
We have respect for the dead on deep thoughts about.
We still do question your, yourparenting choices in 1983.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, oh my yeah all right, so who this?
Thank you, this was.
This was really fun, I'm oh no,no, that's okay, but I'm I am
glad to rehab the, the plotsynopsis I really am and the
fact that I remember the guypulling his face off.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That was the thing where I was like because I think
I texted you.
This is a lot.
This is both less scary andscarier than I expected, and
that was the part that wasscarier than I expected yeah,
yeah, who's who?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
so next week is it me or is it our guest?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I think it's our guest.
I think it's Ryan Cunningham,who I know through my writer's
group, who is a director.
She's bringing her deepthoughts on Rosemary's Baby.
So ooh another scary one.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Another one I'm scared of.
See you then See you then.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
(52:10):
, of course, share the show withyour people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
(52:33):
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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