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Pop quiz, hotshot!
As Emily tells Tracie this week, the 1994 film Speed is, in a word, BONKERS. This pop culture icon of the early 1990s not only gave us the impossible bus jump that we've always wanted from the movies and catapulted Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves to mega-stardom, but it also offered a pretty darn good romance plot in among the explosions, high-speed chases, baby carriages full of cans, and shockingly high body count. But as Emily found on this rewatch, this film is also surprisingly all about money--and that's not just because Emily thinks about money for most of the week in her day job.
Just consider how Dennis Hopper's villainous Howard Payne asks for a paltry $3 million (which he then ups to a baffling $3.7 million). Any actuary worth their salt would have considered the ransom chump change compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of destruction wreaked upon Los Angeles over the course of a single day. But perhaps money isn't everything...Yeah, right.
Take a listen...just remember to keep your speed below 50 mph!
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
The bomber refers to Annie, the driver, who tells
(00:04):
Jack, she's like, I should letyou know I am taking the bus
because my driver's license hasbeen suspended.
He's like, Oh, for what?
And she goes, speeding.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1994 film Speed with mysister, Tracy Guy Decker, and
with you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Tracy, I don't even knowif you've seen this film.
(00:56):
I have not.
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Seriously?
But it was the year that Igraduated from high school and
started college.
Okay.
So like there's a lot in thezeitgeist, but I think that's
why I didn't see it.
I just was like busy being afreshman in college.
Oh, I get it.
So I have not seen it.
But what's in my head about themovie Speed is there's a bus,
and if it goes slower than fast,60 miles an hour, if it goes
(01:19):
slower than fast, then it willblow up and there's like some
ransom demand.
I think Sandra Bullock is in it.
Maybe oh, Keanu Reeves is in it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Oh my goodness.
Oh this movie is bonkers.
It's bonkers.
Yeah, why are why are we talkingabout this bonkers movie today?
What's at stake?
So it's funny because originallyI had planned to talk about
Twister, and I realized I waslike, I don't really want to
talk about Twister.
I'd rather, and something hadreminded me of this movie.
(01:52):
I was like, let me talk aboutSpeed instead.
And then funnily enough, ourlast episode, you'll recall
Aaron Reynolds, mentioned GrahamYost, who wrote Speed.
And I was just like, oh, that'sso funny because I'm gonna be
talking about it.
Well, I come to find out JanDeBont was the director of both
Speed and Twister.
So I'm on some kind of roll.
(02:13):
That's weird.
Like the universe is sending youvibes.
Well, I think uh I I'm in thatkind of like action adventure
like zone.
I don't know.
Sure.
So, but I was just I was more inthe mood for this sort of thing.
I think part of it also is thatI was in the mood for Keanu.
(02:33):
I mean, what in the so and ithas been a while since I saw it
last.
I can remember, I did not see itwhen it first came out.
It must have been, I hadforgotten that that was that you
would have been in college bythen, but I can remember sitting
in our dad's bedroom watching itby myself, like biting my nails.
(02:58):
That's funny.
And like my little heart goingpitter pat for the Keanu Reeve
of Sunderbullock, like likelittle little love story.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Is that like his house on Olmstead?
Yeah.
unknown (03:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
And then like as soon as it was over, like being
like, is there time to likerewind it?
Because this is back in theBlockbuster VHS days.
Is there time to rewind it andwatch it again?
So I loved it.
And but I haven't seen it inyears, haven't really thought
about it, other than the likethe 50 miles an hour.
(03:30):
If you go over 50 miles an hour,it arms the bomb.
And if you go under 50 miles anhour, the bomb goes off.
That aspect of it.
And even as a teenager, beinglike, this is bonkers, like
knowing it was bonkers andloving it anyway.
So rewatching it now, over 30years since it came out, was an
(03:52):
interesting experience.
It was, and especially now thatI have I'm 15 years into a
career writing about money, thismovie's all about money.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
And like, it's not just me.
Wait, is it's not real like isit that you're a hammer so
everything's a deal, or is itreally all about money?
It's really all about money.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
It's not just me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Okay, okay.
And let me tell you why.
No.
So there's uh now, there is someof it being that I'm a hammer,
but just for something thatbecause I know that they put
thought into every single thingthat went on that bus, you know
how buses have like theadvertisements all along the
(04:36):
sides.
On the back of the bus, there'san advertisement that says money
isn't everything.
And then in parentheses, itsays, no, really.
So somebody really wanted thatmessage in the movie, and it's
hammered home multiple times.
Stop.
Hammer time.
(05:01):
So I'm gonna I I wanna talkabout that, about like the weird
money in this film, in this likeexplosion and smoochie film.
It's explosions and like chewingyour nails and like two very
driving fasting fast and twosmoochie smooching and blowing
blowing things up, two verybeautiful people being very
beautiful in intense situations,like weird, funny moments,
(05:25):
Dennis Hopper chewing thescenery, he's the bad guy, and
just like just he is having aball.
Like that's one of my favoritethings, is when the actor
playing the villain is likeclearly having the time of their
life.
Right.
Right.
So there's it's just it's fun.
So there's all that in there.
(05:46):
There's my my idea of romance isin there somewhat because
there's a moment that I canremember mom talking to me about
where he is on this like little,I don't know what you'd call it,
but those little things that yougo under a car on when you're
changing the oil.
Oh, sure.
That they do while they're going50 miles an hour.
Like, so he can try to disablethe bomb.
(06:08):
And so he's going underneath ofit and they're like, what is he
doing?
What's going on?
Because they're freaking outbecause they're circling the
airport at this point.
They've gotten to a relativelysafe place where they can do
that.
So he can try to disarm thebomb.
And as he's going underneath ofit, he looks up and they look in
each other's eyes.
And like, it's so like Iremember like my heart going
pitter pat at the time.
(06:30):
And yet, as I'm watching himapproach, you can see, like,
from his point of view, the bus,he cannot see her eyes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
She cannot see his eyes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
And you and mom talked about this.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
At the time, we didn't talk about the fact that
they could not actually see eachother.
We just talked about like, oh,oh, oh.
No, no, no.
At the time we were just like,oh, those romance down eyes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Yeah.
So, and then there's there'salso this, I think this film is
one of the ones that kind of setthe tone because Dennis Hopper's
villain character talks aboutKeanu Reese's Jack Travan as not
being very intelligent.
And I think, and the thing is,he is very smart.
(07:21):
He outsmarts Dennis Hopper overand over and over and over
again.
It's just that Dennis Hoppermade plans ahead of time, and
it's hard like outsmartingsomeone who has already planned
ahead is harder to do, but hedoes it.
And so that's one of the thingsthat I think is really
interesting as well.
And part of it has to do withlike the way that Keanu Reeves
(07:45):
acts, which I don't think isbad.
It's just the way that he hisaffect and the way that he acts,
which I think is again, it's notbad, it's just different.
And yet, and so people likeglommed onto it as like he's a
dummy, which is not evenremotely true.
It wasn't just this movie.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Oh no.
Because he had the same sort ofthing in Matrix.
Yes, right.
Although I guess this predatesMatrix is the date on Matrix.
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
99.
So, I mean, and it it I think itcomes from Bill and Ted.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
And so it kind of built up becomes sort of a
typecast that follows him, eventhough the cat like Ted is very,
I imagine, is a very differentcharacter than Jack, is a very
different character than Neo.
But that sort of like slightlydim kind of follows the actor.
That's really interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Those are some of the things, like just what we're
gonna be talking about.
Cool as we go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:39):
Well, fill in the details, because since all I got
is if you go slower than fast,it blows up.
And these two beautiful peopleare in it.
Like, like why?
Why if it goes slower than fast,it blows up?
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
So I'm gonna it's bonkers, so I'm gonna try to
quickly, speedily, one mightsay.
Godspeed.
Go through what happens.
So we start in a it takes placein Los Angeles.
We start in a uh very talloffice building, 42nd floor, I
(09:12):
believe, where there is a 13people get into an elevator.
It is an express elevator thatjust goes from that 42nd floor
down to the first floor, Ibelieve.
So there are no like no doors inbetween on the floors in
between.
And the bomber, who we laterfind out, his name is Howard
Payne.
I'm just gonna refer to him asDennis Hopper because it's
easier for me, because we don'tfind out his name until like the
(09:34):
very end of the movie.
But Dennis Hopper, at the veryhe has bombs that cut the
cables, and all elevators havebrakes.
So it cuts the cables, thebrakes like engage, and so the
elevator stops somewhere around30 or 31.
But there are bombs attached tothe brakes.
(09:56):
And so the bomber has said hewants$3 million or he's gonna
blow the brakes.
So LAPD shows up, including JackTravan and his partner, Harry
Temple, who is played by JeffDaniels.
Sorry, and Jack Travan is KeanuReeves.
Jack Travan is Keanu Reeves withhis hair buzzed very short and
looking hot.
Oh my God.
(10:17):
So we see that the bomber is inanother elevator and he is
listening.
And so he is nearby and he's gotthings, all kinds of stuff set
up, including like detonators.
And so Harry and well, Jackvolunteers himself and Harry to
go check out the bomb becauseHarry is the bomb expert.
(10:39):
And so they go and they take alook at it, and they have been
told that if they try to get thepassengers out, he'll I for some
reason they are not supposed totry to get the passengers out.
And they have 23 minutes untilthe time is up.
So Jack is convinced that thereis some way around the issue
(11:01):
they're in.
He's like, How much do you thinkthis elevator weighs?
He goes up, he finds there issome sort of crane on the roof,
and he gets a hook to that craneand like hooks it to the
elevator and starts getting thepassengers out through an access
panel on one of the doors, orexcuse me, one of the floors.
(11:22):
So there's no doors, but there'san access panel, and they can
get the people out, thinkingthat there's no way the guy
would know about it.
But he, because he can hearthem, he blows the um brake
early, but they still manage torescue all 13 passengers.
They get into a confrontationwith Dennis Hopper.
Now, during the time they'd beenworking, at one point, Harry and
(11:45):
Jack are just like back andforth, like pop quiz, hot shots.
And so Harry asks Jack, like,You're at the airport, bomber
has a hostage, is trying to getto a plane, you're 100 feet
away.
What do you do?
And Jack says, You shoot thehostage, take the hostage out of
the equation.
And holy shit.
And Harry's like, You're sick,man.
(12:06):
And so it gets to a point wherethe bomber has Harry and is
holding him, has uh a bomb andis like trying to get away.
And Harry says to Jack, shootthe hostage, because they just
had that conversation.
So Jack shoots Harry in the leg,which means that the bomber no
longer has leverage.
(12:27):
And so he runs away and likethere's an explosion, which they
believe means he he died in hisown explosion.
Uh-huh.
So Jack and Harry receivemedals, and uh Harry is like
grumbling, like, I can't believeyou shot me.
He's like, You told me to.
Then we see that the bomber iswatching them get these medals.
(12:51):
Also, the bomber is missing histhumb on his left hand.
The next morning, Jack isgetting coffee and he says hi to
a bus driver, pulls up, getscoffee right behind Jack.
They apparently see each otherdaily.
Bus driver gets into his bus,pulls away, bus explodes.
Jack runs after it, and likeit's clearly there's nothing to
(13:13):
do with it.
Too late, nothing to be.
Yeah.
And the bus was empty because hewas it was before he had
starting his route.
There's a phone ringing, like apayphone for those of us who
were not born yet in 1994.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Right.
A payphone was kind of like acell phone, except it stayed in
one place and it only stayed inthat one place, and you had to
put coins in it in order to makea call.
But other people could call itbecause it had a number.
Okay.
Sorry.
That was a little aside for ourGen Z listen.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
And it's the bomber calling Jack, saying, pop quiz
hot shot.
There's a bomb on a bus.
If it goes over 50 miles perhour, the bomb engages.
If it goes under 50 miles anhour, the bomb explodes.
And what do you do?
And he's like, Well, I'd want toknow which bus.
He's like, All right, there'ssome rules.
I'll tell you which bus it is,and I'll tell you where it is,
but no passengers may leave thebus or I'll explode it.
(14:09):
So that starts a race to try toget to the bus.
We then see the bus, and it islike to the film's credit, they
have a very diverse cast ofextras on this bus.
I mean, it is a lot of it's LosAngeles.
It's also like, in some ways,it's also just like it's a very
(14:32):
diverse cast of extras.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
It's like somebody was like with a check.
Yeah.
Like, where's the Asian guy?
Asian guy.
Okay, Asian guy.
All right, all right, wait, weneed a disabled person.
Who's got a cane?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
All right.
So when we first see the bus, itis we see Sandra Bullock, her
character's name is Annie, likerunning to catch it, going,
like, please, and she is Sam thebus driver, finally like takes
pity on her and opens the door.
He's like, you know, this isn'ta bus stop.
She's like, Oh, you're a goodand kind man.
They'll write songs about youone day, Sam.
(15:05):
And so we get to meet some ofthe people on the bus.
So Sam the bus driver, she sitsdown and there is a tourist
played by Alan Ruck, who isCameron in Ferris Bueller, who
is kind of like hitting on herslash talking your ear off.
And so she likes moves seats,sits next to another woman named
Helen, played by Beth Grant,passes Beckdell because they
(15:26):
talk about taking the bus.
And so it turns out Annie, shemisses her car.
Her license has been suspended.
There are, and then justeveryone's commuting.
It is eight o'clock in themorning.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Do we have like a ransom or something from Alan
from um Dennis Hopper?
Or is it just is he just apsychologist?
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
He wants$3.7 million.
He had wanted$3 million thefirst time.
It's been like probably about amonth, and now he wants$3.7
million.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Okay.
And what's that in today'sdollar?
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Like, I looked it up and it's about like$1.81 million
dollars.
And that that is one of thethings I'm gonna get to.
It's like I'm not saying that'snot a lot of money, because
that's a lot of money and itwould be a w life-changing
amount of money for a lot ofpeople.
But especially in Los Angeles,that's not that much money.
SPEAKER_00 (16:15):
Okay, so he's saying, give me this three
million, 3.7 or but he also isgiving them the opportunity like
okay, all right, carry on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
And at this point he's made it clear like it's
because Jack pissed him off.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Yeah, right.
That's well, that's why I asked,because it doesn't sound like
it's actually like to getsomething, except to like get
back at Jack.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
So the bus is still in the local routes at first,
and so has not gone over 50miles an hour yet.
So the but the bomb has not yetbeen active.
So Jack is driving after it,like driving like a maniac,
manages to catch up with the busin traffic and like runs after
it and is like banging on thedoor, manages to like smash the
(17:02):
glass a little bit and scaresthe crap out of everyone.
He is in plain clothes, so likethey don't and like he's not
able to like show his badge.
So they're just like, No, we'renot letting you on this bus.
And so, and then by the timelike traffic picks up again,
he's far enough away from hisown car that he can't go back.
(17:22):
So he commandeers this guy'sJaguar.
SPEAKER_02 (17:26):
Of course, it's a Jaguar.
They never commandeer like theToyota Camry.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
And it's a convertible too.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
I mean, of course you didn't even have to tell me
that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I already knew.
So, and the guy's like, so atthe what it's kind of a funny
line because he he said he'slike, LAPD, take this car.
And the guy's like, it's my carbecause there's a black guy
driving.
It's my car.
I didn't steal it.
It's or it's my car, it's notstolen.
And uh, and so then he takesJack takes out his gun, he's
like, now it is, move over.
(18:00):
That's actually really funny.
So he's racing after it, and atthis point, the bus does get
over 50 miles an hour.
He's able to get there, like getthere the bus driver's attention
and show his badge, but theycan't understand each other
because trying to talk overtraffic.
So he has the the guy whoseJaguar it is write bomb on bus
(18:23):
and like he's trying to hold itup, like he gets in front of the
bus, trying to hold it up, andit ends up like flying against
the windshield.
And like poor Sam gets freakedout and starts to slow down.
He's like, Don't slow down.
And then at that point, he'slike, All right, I need to get
on that bus.
And he asks, and this again, Iwouldn't bring this up except
that I'm gonna talk about itlater.
(18:43):
He asks the Jaguar owner, Areyou insured?
He's like, Yeah, man, yeah, I'minsured.
He's like, All right, and so heopens the door and like pulls
ahead and then stops.
So the door comes off.
So like is is is pulled as likeby the bus.
Like the bus rips the door offrips the door off so that he can
then like jump from the Jaguaronto the bus.
(19:07):
Okay, and so and then the Jaguarowner, he's like, Here, take the
wheel, the Jaguar.
Oh, and he the Jaguar owner hasa cell phone, which was not that
common necessarily in 1994.
And he's like, I'm taking this.
And at that point, the Jaguarowner's like, fine, take the
phone.
That guy, that guy's great.
I love him.
(19:29):
So anyway, he gets on the bus.
There is a guy on the buslooking very sweaty and
uncomfortable.
He's not explaining what'shappening.
He tells the bus driver, buthe's not explaining to everyone
else what's happening becausehe's trying to avoid panic.
But the guy, the sweaty anduncomfortable guy gets up and
like holds a holds a gun onJack.
And Jack pulls up his gun andhe's like, I'm not here for you.
(19:50):
We're just two cool guys.
I'm putting my gun away, I'mputting my badge away.
I'm just Jack right now.
Like, please put that away.
And another passenger trying tohelp, like, tackles the sweaty
guy, and it means he uhaccidentally pulls the trigger
and ends up shooting the busdriver.
Oh no.
(20:11):
So poor Sam.
So Annie ends up taking overdriving.
Who's lost her license?
Who's lost her license, andthey're able to like stabilize
Sam, and then at that point,Jack says and Jack handcuffs the
shooter and he says, I'm reallynot here for you.
There's a bomb on the bus.
(20:32):
I was trying to avoid freakingy'all out, but that's what's
going on.
So shenanigans ensue.
I'm not sure.
So he at that point he is ableto he gets in touch with his
lieutenant Mac.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
On the cell phone he stole from the Jaguars.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Yes.
And with Harry.
And so Harry has him look underthe bus.
There's an access panel.
The Sam tells him, like, there'san access panel, he can stick
his hand head underneath tolook.
And he sees there's a a bombthat is wired through a like
tacky gold watch, like the kindyou get when you retire.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
And so Harry's working on trying to figure out
like how to disable the bomb andlike why, like, who could have
done this while the police aretrying to figure out a safe
place for them to go becausethey end up having to get off
the freeway because it'scrowded, and so they have to
(21:35):
slow down.
So they get into city streets,and that's terrifying.
Right.
Going 50.
Uh-huh.
And so they're able to get ontothe 105, which is under which is
completed, had been underconstruction and is completed
but not yet open.
So they get to that, and thenthey have conversations with the
(21:57):
bomber who calls.
Like they give the bomber thecell phone number of the Jaguar
owner.
The bomber refers to Annie, thedriver, who tells Jack, she's
like, I should let you know I amtaking the bus because my
driver's license has beensuspended.
He's like, Oh, for what?
And she goes, speeding.
(22:19):
All right.
So wait, Dennis Hopper refers toAnnie as uh the wild cat behind
the wheel.
unknown (22:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
So they have like this um flatbed truck on the
empty highway next to the bus.
And so Jack convinces the bomberto let Sam go so that he can get
because he's injured.
Because he's injured.
Uh-huh.
There are news helicoptersfollowing overhead.
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
Uh-huh.
A la OJ sent me.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yes.
And Helen is like freaking out.
She's like, Well, can't we allget off?
And Jack is saying, No, we can'tdo that.
And Mac and the other police onthe flatbed are like, No, no,
no, let's let's unload the restof the passengers.
And Jack's like, No, I don'tknow how he knows, but like,
we've got eyes above us.
I don't like he knows.
And so once they've passed Samover, Helen kind of reaches out,
(23:12):
and the other police officersare like, Yeah, yeah, reach
over.
And as soon as uh the bombersees it, he blows a smaller
detonator on the steps of thebus and she falls and falls
under the wheels of the bus.
SPEAKER_03 (23:23):
And oh, gruesome.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
So Annie is really freaked out about it for any
reason.
The next shenanigan is thatalthough the 105 is supposed to
be completed, there is a gap.
There's a 50-foot gap wherethere is Oh, did they jump a
bus?
They jumped a bus.
unknown (23:43):
Neat.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
So they gotta jump that, which as a what was I, a
15-year-old, I'm watching thatgoing like that is not
physically possible.
Nope, nope, nope, nope in acartoon.
Don't believe it.
Anyway, they they get to a pointwhere because Jack is certain
that he's watching the news, heonce they get to the other side
(24:05):
of that gap, they're near theLAX.
And so he's like, Here, get offand go to the LAX.
So they can continue ridingaround the runways relatively
safely in the airport, and it'srestricted airspace.
So they can't have news teamsfollowing them there.
At that point, he talks to thebomber again, says, I need to
(24:26):
get off so I can negotiate toget you your money.
And reluctantly, Dennis Hopperagrees.
That's when he goes under thebus to try to disarm the bomb.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
On that little dolly thing.
Which I don't think those wheelsactually could spin that fast.
Those little skateboard wheelsthat are on dollies.
Yeah, anyway.
Okay.
So and they happen to have oneof those on the bus.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Oh, no, no.
It's like the police are therewith everything.
Oh, oh.
Like, yeah, the police havecome, like they, they are they
provide the dolly in a truckahead of them.
Got it.
That has a and it's attached toa like a flywheel with a long
cord to it.
And I mean, they they've got asetup.
All right, all right.
I mean, if you're gonnamilitarize the police, at least
(25:15):
you've got something to protectKeanu Reeves.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
Right.
Okay.
All right, all right.
The the case for militized premilitarized pre police is Keanu
Reeves' safety.
Yeah, got it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
So it doesn't go well because with all the
shenanigans, the bus's tires arestarting to come apart.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
Cool, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
So they just barely managed to get Keanu back, or
excuse me, Jack back onto thebus because the whole Dolly
situation falls apart.
And he had to use a screwdriverin the gas tank to hold on.
So now they're also losing gas.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Oh, so now they're leaking gas.
Cool.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Great.
Meanwhile, Harry has figured outthat considering how well the
bomber understands bombs, and hedoesn't use the same one because
the MO with bombers is they findone that works for them, they've
and they're monogamous.
That's what they use.
But he uses all different kindsall over the place, and it's
like he knows it all.
And he's like, he always knowswhat we're doing.
And he's like, What if he's acop?
(26:15):
And so he's like, Look intopension records.
I want someone who is ondisability because he's missing
a thumb.
And so they finally find him.
He was forced into retirement in1989, and they now know his
name.
And he's like, We've got ourscumbag, and they are going to
his house, which as soon as theyget there, it has been rigged to
explode, and everybody, theentire team is caught in this
(26:39):
explosion, including Harry.
Oh, Harry dies.
Oh.
So plot armor doesn't protectHarry?
Plot armor does not protectHarry.
SPEAKER_04 (26:47):
Sad.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
So Jack gets a call thinking it's from Harry, and it
is because this is back whencell phones didn't tell you who
was calling.
Can you imagine?
And it's the bomber saying,sorry he didn't make it.
And he refers to Annie as thatwildcat again.
Jack starts freaking out becausehis best friend just died.
(27:09):
And once he calms down, henotices that Annie's sweatshirt
has University of Arizona logoon it.
And he's like, They're thewildcats.
And he's like, he can see us.
And he looks around and he findsa video camera that's right up
at the top.
So they ask the local news, theyfind the transmission.
(27:30):
There's local news nearby.
They ask them to find that,create a loop, and send it.
So, and then once they have thatgoing, they get the passengers
off and then let the busexplode.
Once they're safe, they get acall from the bomber saying,
like, where's my money?
And Mac, the the lieutenant, islike, I'm gonna tell him where
(27:51):
his money is.
And he's just like, he doesn'tknow the bus has exploded.
And they're like, Oh yeah.
So they think, okay, now we canget him.
So they go to make the drop.
It's in a trash can, and theyhave like the entire place
surrounded.
Annie goes with them.
She's in an ambulance becauseshe and she and Jack are all
lovey-dovey at this point.
(28:12):
But she's safely in theambulance, but she gets out just
for a little fresh air.
And the bomber dressed as a copcomes and says, Oh, it's not
safe for you here, miss.
And she's like, Oh, Jack Travansaid it was okay.
He's like, Oh, yeah, he sent me.
He wants to make sure you'resafe.
As they're watching, and it'she's late for the pickup.
Jack is like, something's wrong.
He goes, he pushes over thetrash can, finds a hole in it, a
(28:34):
hole in the floor, and it goesdown into the subway, and he
fall goes down, down, lowershimself below, and the bomber
has put a bomb on Annie, had herpick up the money, and he's
using her as the hostage now.
And he's like, You're not gonnashoot this hostage, are ya?
They end up on a subway goingway too fast with Annie because
(28:58):
they're in the subway.
Strapped to a bomb.
Okay.
And so Jack is following, has tothe everyone else.
There's no one else on thesubway except for the driver who
the bomber kills.
Jack is on top of the subway,and the bomber hears him, climbs
up on there as well.
They tussle, and Jack manages tokill him by pushing him up so
(29:23):
that his head is cut off by oneof those lights that are low.
Like, yeah, it's pretty awful.
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
That's gruesome.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
He comes back down, and when the bomber had killed
the driver, he had like messedup all the mechanics of the
subway.
And so they can't stop it.
And the tunnel is unfinished.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Of course it is.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Annie is handcuffed to a pole, and so like they'd
have to jump, and there's no thehe she can't.
And so um Jack says, like, allright, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
speed it up so that we jump offthe tracks and maybe we'll
survive that way.
And so that's what he does.
And like they hug each other andlike they jump off the tracks
and end up on HollywoodBoulevard and like are okay and
(30:09):
smooch.
Doesn't she have a bomb on herstuff?
Oh, he got the stick thatcontrols the bomb, and that it
was easy to like because he justwanted to be able to put it on
her quickly, he could unhook itand bombs neutralized.
All right.
So the bomb has been neutral.
Bombs neutralized.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Alright.
Well, that took a that was notquick.
I tried.
I know.
Let's get into it.
Let's get into it.
Let's go straight into it.
So I feel like we should startwith money because you're a
hammer and it's hammer time.
So talk to me about money inthis film.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
So I remembered that Dennis Hopper wanted money.
I remembered that was hisreasoning for this, that he was
bitter because he lost hiscareer when he had the injury
that made him lose his thumb,and that he felt like his
pension was too small.
And there's a point where, like,when Keanu Reeves at the
beginning is like going upsidedown to hook the crane to the
(31:09):
elevator.
He's like, Why do I do this jobagain?
And Harry says to him, Oh,because after 30 years, you can
get a cheap gold watch and atiny pension.
So, like, we set this up thatlike cops don't get paid well.
And then they were tired ofcrap.
So I remembered that.
(31:30):
But when the amount that DennisHopper was asking for was three
million dollars, I remembergoing, really?
Yeah.
As like Austin Howard.
One million dollars.
I'm like, yeah, because like I'mnot saying it's not a lot of
money, but it's really not thatmuch money.
(31:53):
Yeah.
So like that just really waslike his cognitive dissonance
for me.
And 3.7 is such a specificnumber.
Yeah, to go up to where, like,you know, go whole hog, Dennis.
Say four.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
You watch it yourself at 250.
SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
So, so that that really struck me as odd.
And then particularly since it'sset in LA, which now LA in 2025
is like impossible to live infor a but I think even in 94, it
was an expensive place to live.
(32:39):
Like it it in our lifetime, Idon't think it has ever been a
place where, like, oh yeah, lowcost of living, nice place to
raise the kids.
It's never been that.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (32:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
So that was, and he had been a police officer in
Atlanta and had retired to LosAngeles.
To LA.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
All right.
So that was weird to me.
Then as I'm watching the hugeamount of destruction that is
being wrought upon Los Angeles.
(33:12):
Like a lot more than$3 million.
It is so much more than$3million.
Starting with Bob, the uh busdriver.
I don't know.
I'm just assuming he probablyhad life insurance.
And if he had some sort of likeand the bus company, because
like driving is a relativelyhigh risk profession.
(33:34):
And so you get higher lifeinsurance payout, your family
does, right, if you die on thejob.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
And then like accidental death and
dismemberment policy.
And then the cost of the bus,like just the bus itself is
probably, I mean, a hundred andfifty thousand dollar bus.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Plus, then there's like City Street down this that
needs to be prepared.
So I'm like, So, like theinsurance agents alone are like,
just pay the money.
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
Yeah.
And so, like, when they're like,So it's 8 a.m.
when all this starts, and hewants his money by 11 a.m.
And Jack is like, there's no waywe can do that that quickly.
And I'm like, you talk to anactuary, they will be like, give
the man his money, we can findit.
Like, just with the amount thatthe bus company, that the not
(34:22):
the bus company, but the LosAngeles, the city of Los Angeles
is out for poor Bob and that busand that city street is probably
already close to three million.
It's getting there.
So, like, if he were asking for50 million, that I would
(34:46):
understand.
So now obviously we wouldn'thave a movie if if they just
paid him.
If they just paid him.
SPEAKER_03 (34:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:53):
But there the film intentionally did that.
Now, I think some of it is theycontinuously say he's crazy, not
stupid.
And at one point, Annie asksJack, why is he doing it?
Did we bomb his country orsomething?
Like that.
She asks, like, why is this guydid he put this bomb on this
(35:16):
bus?
And he's like, It's just formoney.
He just wants money.
And he's like, Okay, so we payhim, he goes away.
He's like, No, he gets the moneyand he wins.
He both blows up the bus and hewins.
He's like, okay, well, what ifyou win?
Well, then we play againtomorrow, is how Jack describes
it.
So that is part of it as well.
And that's where I'm thinking,like, why I feel like this movie
(35:38):
is about money in a way that'sthat is not just me looking at
it.
Because it's saying that themoney isn't really important.
I mean, that's what's on theback of the bus.
It's saying, like, money doesn'treally matter.
Yeah, right.
Because it doesn't really matterto Dennis Hopper, but it's the
(36:03):
entire reason he's doing this,and yet he would do the horrible
things anyway.
And so, like, there's this veryweird conversation going on in
this tension about like whatreally matters in here.
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
Yeah.
Now, before we hit record, younamed the fact that there's like
attached to the money is alsoclass because we see these two
separate bombing incidents.
The first one in like a Sheetonihigh-rise with posh business
people, and the second one, likewith folks from the other side
of the socioeconomic spectrumriding the bus.
(36:42):
Can you like unpack that alittle bit?
Like, what's up with that?
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
So that I think is really interesting because
Dennis Hopper says he spent twoyears planning the elevator
bombing.
And that, considering the factthat he had been a police
officer, which is considered ablue-collar job.
And when we first meet him, heis working on the elevator
shaft, and there's a securityguard who comes in and says,
(37:06):
Hey, you're not supposed to behere.
He's like, Oh, yeah, I got alast-minute work order.
He's like, Well, I didn't seeany work order, I'm gonna need
to see it.
And so the bomber kills thisguy.
Like, he's like, Oh, yeah, letme get the work order.
And then he gets gets like aweapon and kills the guy, and
he's like, Sorry, it's notpersonal.
And so there is this slightsense that there is a little bit
(37:29):
of like solidarity.
I mean, not solidarity, it'slike it's not personal.
Like, you know, you're just inmy way.
And he doesn't Whereas maybe itis personal with the hostages.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Yeah.
Kind of, kind of.
On the elevator, and and it'sdefinitely personal with Jack.
Right.
Though that, you know, it'sinteresting coming back to sort
of the money isn't everything.
Like, it's personal with Jack.
Like it's about the money, butit's not actually about the
money.
It's about showing up this dude.
I mean, there's a lot simplerways that someone with the
(38:01):
knowledge of bombs could ask fora ransom than this like weird
puzzle with the bus.
Yeah.
And he left clues that couldallow Jack to solve it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's it it's sort of aboutbeing met.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
Yeah.
And he the other thing that Ithink is interesting, and I
talked a little bit about beforewe hit record, consistently the
bomber like talks about Jack asnot being that intelligent.
And he he says that Harry is thebrains of the operation.
Well, Harry's the bomb expert.
But Jack is really smart.
Now, some of it is he describesit as like, I've got a gut
(38:43):
feeling.
So, like when he's like, There'ssomething not right about this
with the elevator, and he'slike, Let's take the hostages
out of the equation.
And he's like, I think he'sstill here.
Because uh, when he sets thebomb off early, like three
minutes early, they're like,Well, maybe he just got wanted
to do it early.
He could be anywhere settingthat bomb off.
(39:04):
And he's like, No, he'd want tomonitor it from here.
Like, there's this place iscrawling with police.
Why would he do that?
And like, and Jack's like, Ijust have a feeling.
And so, but that is a kind ofintelligence, even if it's not
it's not the kind ofintelligence where you can show
your work.
Right, that sort of intuition.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
And consistently he he outsmarts Dennis Hopper,
which is like there is this wehave typecast Keanu Reeves as
like not too bright surfer dude.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
Right.
I mean, right, we said that, buteven though the characters are
very different from from Ted tothis character to Neo, they're
all different characters, butthat sort of like not that sort
of dimness, but it's also it'salmost like Born Sexy Yesterday
kind of dimness, right?
Because there's like this levelof um not quite smart, but also
(40:02):
like very, very smart or good atsomething else in each of those
three characters I just named.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
And it's also like he's the shoot the hostage, it's
actually very smart.
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
It's ruthless.
Yeah, yeah.
But if it is just about the gameof strategy and you don't care
what the consequences are orwhat the cost is, that is a way
to win.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Yeah.
And it was it was like thatconversation is what allowed him
and Harry together to win rightinitially.
SPEAKER_00 (40:37):
Right.
Before we hit record, you alsosaid that you wanted to get a
little bit meta about Keanu andhis performance here.
So let's stay with Keanu Reeveshere and and tell me, tell our
listeners what you told mebefore we hit record.
SPEAKER_01 (40:53):
So River Phoenix passed away either during
filming or just beforehand.
And the director like rearrangedthe shooting so that Reeves
could attend the funeral and togive him a little time to grieve
and have like he had a lessintense shooting schedule, which
is lovely.
It's lovely to know that thatthey did that for him.
(41:15):
And apparently, Keanu Reeves wassaying to DeBaunt, I'm not a
hero.
Like doing this action filmafter having lost this good
friend of his felt inauthenticin a way, and he's like, I like
I don't feel like a hero.
And the director has said thatkind of cognitive dissonance
(41:36):
that he was experiencing broughtmore to the performance.
SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
I mean, does make a certain amount of sense for what
I just which I only know fromwhat you're telling me, but what
I understand of this character,Jack, who's just a cop on the
job.
Like, why am I doing this again?
Yeah.
Right?
Like, he doesn't think ofhimself as a hero either.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
And in particular, the when he learns of Harry's
death, like he really he's heldit together and been like, he's
been what the passengers on thebus need him to be.
Uh-huh.
And he is just overwhelmed withlike the rage kind of grief at
that moment.
(42:15):
Oh.
And Annie's like, please stop,please stop.
We need you to hold it together.
Like, we need you to do.
And you think maybe Keanu wasbringing some of his actual
grief around Phoenix, Phoenix'sdeath.
Yeah.
And it's very real.
Like it's a very real moment.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
That's really fascinating.
SPEAKER_01 (42:31):
Yeah.
And in such a like silly bonkersfilm.
And the way she brings him backis she's like, I can't do this
without you.
We can't do this without you,please.
And that's when he like kind oflike kind of calms down, and
then he like turns to her and hegoes, We're all going to die.
So like he like pulls ittogether for the rest of the
(42:53):
passengers, but he's not able todo it.
Yeah.
But that's when he notices thather sweatshirt is University of
Arizona.
And that's when he's like, Okay,I've got something.
But it's where I'm like, Iresent people being like, he
doesn't, he's not a good actor.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah.
All right.
In our last couple minutes, youwanted to talk about romance.
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
So there is like this really interesting like
interplay between Annie andJack.
Like, just there's a little bitof like kind of flirting.
Like he keeps calling her ma'am.
And at some point she's like,Annie.
My name's Annie.
And there's there's a little bitof that.
And then when she runs throughthat when she's on the streets
(43:41):
valet, she runs like through anintersection, and there's a
woman pushing what looks like ababy carriage, and she sh she
hits it and she's like so upset.
And it didn't have a baby in it.
It was an old-fashioned babycarriage, and the woman had like
filled it with cans, but she'slike horrified.
And he like calms her down.
And so there's this like senseof like they're supporting each
(44:04):
other.
SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
Uh-huh.
Yeah, that's nice.
SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
So there's the first time everything's okay after the
bus has exploded and everyone'sfine.
She's like, Are you gonna getall mushy on me now?
And he's like, I don't know, Imight.
And she's like, I gotta warnyou, relationships that start
from an intense experience neverlast.
I've done extensive study onthis.
And then once they are safeagain after the subway, he's
(44:27):
like, Well, I've heard thatrelationships that start based
on an intense experience neverlast.
And she's like, We're just gonnahave to base this one on sex
then.
So, like, I mean, on the onehand, I really appreciate like
the just the sex positive waythat they interact and all of
(44:49):
that.
I also, when she realizes likeshe can't get out of the
handcuffs and she's like, youneed to jump off.
Like the I can't get out ofhere, you need to save yourself.
And he doesn't.
And like there's there'smultiple times where like they
are just like when he finallygets back on after getting on
the dolly, she's like so freakedout and so worried, and he gets
(45:11):
back on and she's like hittinghim.
She's like, You jerk, you scaredthe crap out of me, and stuff
like that.
So, like, there's a lot ofreally lovely, nice little
things in there so that you sortof believe.
Yeah, their their chemistry isreally good, but it's also like
he couldn't see her eyes fromwhere he was, and she couldn't
see his.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
Well, so it's interesting.
What I'm hearing is that thereare these like moments, these
guideposts, and then we fill inlike that's kind of how these
things work.
There is enough chemistrybetween these two characters and
these two actors that the viewerlike fills in the rest.
SPEAKER_01 (45:55):
Well, I mean we believe it.
The director, like we directorintended for us to think that
they were looking at eachother's.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
No, no, I know.
I know, but like it it'll likewhat I mean is like we sort of
we gloss over the bits thataren't either aren't there or
wouldn't actually work.
Yeah.
We just gloss over it and fillin the details.
That's funny.
Any final words before I try andreflect back to you what I
heard?
SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
Well, I think this kind of like disaster film,
which I I like, I think this isalso kind of a disaster film.
I don't know.
I don't know if it counts.
SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
I mean it's an action adventure.
It's an action adventure.
But it's I don't think it is adisaster because there's because
it's human-made, it's not Yeah,that's true.
By by a single individual, it'snot like you know, it's not
towering inferno.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
Yeah, yeah.
But there's something about likewe love these, like, and I said
it myself, like I love villainswho are chewing the scenery.
Like I love when they'reenjoying themselves.
Mm-hmm.
But it like as I'm you'rewatching them like kiss at the
end in the subway, I'm like, howmuch destruction did he wreak in
one day in Los Angeles?
(47:05):
Like, that's ridiculous.
And for what?
So yeah, I don't know.
It's it gets to that, like myproblem with like serial killer
movies and like and FreddyKrueger and stuff like that,
where we're like we get soenamored of the bad guy because
(47:27):
they're so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (47:29):
Yeah, yeah.
All right, so let me see if Ican reflect this back to you
fairly quickly because we'rerunning short on time.
So you are a hammer, but alsothis movie is a nail because
it's all about money.
Although it says it's notbecause the back of the bus says
money isn't everything.
Parentheses, no, really.
And I think that actually istrue.
It's not really about moneybecause actually, like, there
(47:53):
are much, much simpler ways forDennis Hopper to use his
knowledge of bomb making to rget money as ransom.
Like, it's also about sort ofthe chase and the riddle.
It's kind of like Batman and theRiddler almost, or like Bond
villains who like want anemesis.
(48:13):
So there's something like kindof interesting about that, about
the money, but not really themoney.
And also to throw on top of thatthe class piece of this, where
this guy who is a working class,he's a cop who didn't get enough
money.
And that's kind of his motive.
And so his initial target isvery Tony-shy business people
(48:34):
who maybe can't afford to payhis$3 million ransom, which
really isn't that much money.
But when that doesn't work, hegoes after everyday folks who
have less potentialtheoretically because they're
riding the bus.
And I'm not exactly sure what todo with that.
Like, that's really interesting.
And we we named the fact thatlike his number goes up, but
(48:54):
only by$700,000.
Like, why did he cheat himselfthe extra 300?
Like, go for the four.
Anyway, that's sort of aninteresting thing.
And you name the fact that themovie makers really wanted us to
see that this bus is a slice ofLA.
You know, they like had theAsian guy and they had the
disabled person and they had thelike this woman and the black
person and the white person andthe whatever.
(49:15):
Like, they really wanted us tosee, like, they had a checklist
of different identities in LA.
So well done, we noticed.
And then we see this intenseromance between these two
players.
I'm going a little out of orderof our conversation, but one of
the takeaways was these twoplayers have this sort of cute,
flirty in the midst of romance,but also reciprocal.
(49:38):
He calms her down, she calms himdown.
Like there's like actualreciprocal support, these
guideposts and this chemistry,which allows us to kind of gloss
over things that might bemissing or that might just be
inaccurate because he couldn'thave seen her eyes and she
couldn't have seen his eyes inthat scene.
Also, the bus would not havemade that jump.
SPEAKER_01 (49:57):
Yeah.
Right.
And like, how would that notthen like trigger the bomb?
Set off the bomb.
SPEAKER_00 (50:01):
Yeah.
So there's the one of the thingsthat I heard from you, like in
the subtext, is that this movieis just really fun.
And, you know, it has the stakesat the right level and the
action adventure at the rightpacing, that you're biting your
nails and not saying, thatwouldn't happen.
Instead, you're just like, ohgood, they made it.
(50:24):
So that's sort of an interestingnote.
You noted that this movie ispart of the trajectory of
watching Keanu Reeves playcharacters who are sort of come
off as maybe not quite thatbright in traditional
intellectual ways, but also verysmart or very accomplished in
(50:46):
other ways.
And that sort of follows theactor through very different
characters, and this is part ofthat trajectory.
And speaking of him as an actor,you named that this film
happened right around the timethat his friend River Phoenix
passed away, and that that griefactually gets translated into a
better performance.
(51:07):
Because not only did Reeves notfeel like he deserved to be an
action hero, which was accurateto the character he was playing,
he also there's a moment whenthe character experiences deep
grief, which maybe did wasinformed by the actor's deep
grief.
I think that was everything wetalked about.
SPEAKER_01 (51:25):
Villains being fun, being dramatic.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Right.
And and the villains being funsort of like kind of messes with
our heads in terms of like whatwe should be taking away from
films like this, where there'slike these complicated plots and
and actors kind of chewing thescenery in very fun ways where
they're having a very good time.
Yes, yes.
Although, on the other hand,it's kind of like a safe way for
(51:50):
us to kind of experience that.
True, very true.
So well, this was fun.
I guess I'm gonna have to watchit at some point, maybe.
Maybe I'll watch it with you.
SPEAKER_02 (51:58):
Because that would be so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:00):
Yeah.
And next week, I'm gonna changethe pace completely and bring
you my deep thoughts about afish called Wanda.
Oh been years since I saw that.
So, well, same.
See you then.
See you then.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(52:23):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes, or leave a positive
review so others can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
(52:44):
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
The bomber refers to Annie, the driver, who tells
(00:04):
Jack, she's like, I should letyou know I am taking the bus
because my driver's license hasbeen suspended.
He's like, Oh, for what?
And she goes, speeding.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Because pop culture is stillculture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1994 film Speed with mysister, Tracy Guy Decker, and
with you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Tracy, I don't even knowif you've seen this film.
(00:56):
I have not.
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Seriously?
But it was the year that Igraduated from high school and
started college.
Okay.
So like there's a lot in thezeitgeist, but I think that's
why I didn't see it.
I just was like busy being afreshman in college.
Oh, I get it.
So I have not seen it.
But what's in my head about themovie Speed is there's a bus,
and if it goes slower than fast,60 miles an hour, if it goes
(01:19):
slower than fast, then it willblow up and there's like some
ransom demand.
I think Sandra Bullock is in it.
Maybe oh, Keanu Reeves is in it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Oh my goodness.
Oh this movie is bonkers.
It's bonkers.
Yeah, why are why are we talkingabout this bonkers movie today?
What's at stake?
So it's funny because originallyI had planned to talk about
Twister, and I realized I waslike, I don't really want to
talk about Twister.
I'd rather, and something hadreminded me of this movie.
(01:52):
I was like, let me talk aboutSpeed instead.
And then funnily enough, ourlast episode, you'll recall
Aaron Reynolds, mentioned GrahamYost, who wrote Speed.
And I was just like, oh, that'sso funny because I'm gonna be
talking about it.
Well, I come to find out JanDeBont was the director of both
Speed and Twister.
So I'm on some kind of roll.
(02:13):
That's weird.
Like the universe is sending youvibes.
Well, I think uh I I'm in thatkind of like action adventure
like zone.
I don't know.
Sure.
So, but I was just I was more inthe mood for this sort of thing.
I think part of it also is thatI was in the mood for Keanu.
(02:33):
I mean, what in the so and ithas been a while since I saw it
last.
I can remember, I did not see itwhen it first came out.
It must have been, I hadforgotten that that was that you
would have been in college bythen, but I can remember sitting
in our dad's bedroom watching itby myself, like biting my nails.
(02:58):
That's funny.
And like my little heart goingpitter pat for the Keanu Reeve
of Sunderbullock, like likelittle little love story.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Is that like his house on Olmstead?
Yeah.
unknown (03:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
And then like as soon as it was over, like being
like, is there time to likerewind it?
Because this is back in theBlockbuster VHS days.
Is there time to rewind it andwatch it again?
So I loved it.
And but I haven't seen it inyears, haven't really thought
about it, other than the likethe 50 miles an hour.
(03:30):
If you go over 50 miles an hour,it arms the bomb.
And if you go under 50 miles anhour, the bomb goes off.
That aspect of it.
And even as a teenager, beinglike, this is bonkers, like
knowing it was bonkers andloving it anyway.
So rewatching it now, over 30years since it came out, was an
(03:52):
interesting experience.
It was, and especially now thatI have I'm 15 years into a
career writing about money, thismovie's all about money.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
And like, it's not just me.
Wait, is it's not real like isit that you're a hammer so
everything's a deal, or is itreally all about money?
It's really all about money.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
It's not just me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Okay, okay.
And let me tell you why.
No.
So there's uh now, there is someof it being that I'm a hammer,
but just for something thatbecause I know that they put
thought into every single thingthat went on that bus, you know
how buses have like theadvertisements all along the
(04:36):
sides.
On the back of the bus, there'san advertisement that says money
isn't everything.
And then in parentheses, itsays, no, really.
So somebody really wanted thatmessage in the movie, and it's
hammered home multiple times.
Stop.
Hammer time.
(05:01):
So I'm gonna I I wanna talkabout that, about like the weird
money in this film, in this likeexplosion and smoochie film.
It's explosions and like chewingyour nails and like two very
driving fasting fast and twosmoochie smooching and blowing
blowing things up, two verybeautiful people being very
beautiful in intense situations,like weird, funny moments,
(05:25):
Dennis Hopper chewing thescenery, he's the bad guy, and
just like just he is having aball.
Like that's one of my favoritethings, is when the actor
playing the villain is likeclearly having the time of their
life.
Right.
Right.
So there's it's just it's fun.
So there's all that in there.
(05:46):
There's my my idea of romance isin there somewhat because
there's a moment that I canremember mom talking to me about
where he is on this like little,I don't know what you'd call it,
but those little things that yougo under a car on when you're
changing the oil.
Oh, sure.
That they do while they're going50 miles an hour.
Like, so he can try to disablethe bomb.
(06:08):
And so he's going underneath ofit and they're like, what is he
doing?
What's going on?
Because they're freaking outbecause they're circling the
airport at this point.
They've gotten to a relativelysafe place where they can do
that.
So he can try to disarm thebomb.
And as he's going underneath ofit, he looks up and they look in
each other's eyes.
And like, it's so like Iremember like my heart going
pitter pat at the time.
(06:30):
And yet, as I'm watching himapproach, you can see, like,
from his point of view, the bus,he cannot see her eyes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
She cannot see his eyes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
And you and mom talked about this.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
At the time, we didn't talk about the fact that
they could not actually see eachother.
We just talked about like, oh,oh, oh.
No, no, no.
At the time we were just like,oh, those romance down eyes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Yeah.
So, and then there's there'salso this, I think this film is
one of the ones that kind of setthe tone because Dennis Hopper's
villain character talks aboutKeanu Reese's Jack Travan as not
being very intelligent.
And I think, and the thing is,he is very smart.
(07:21):
He outsmarts Dennis Hopper overand over and over and over
again.
It's just that Dennis Hoppermade plans ahead of time, and
it's hard like outsmartingsomeone who has already planned
ahead is harder to do, but hedoes it.
And so that's one of the thingsthat I think is really
interesting as well.
And part of it has to do withlike the way that Keanu Reeves
(07:45):
acts, which I don't think isbad.
It's just the way that he hisaffect and the way that he acts,
which I think is again, it's notbad, it's just different.
And yet, and so people likeglommed onto it as like he's a
dummy, which is not evenremotely true.
It wasn't just this movie.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Oh no.
Because he had the same sort ofthing in Matrix.
Yes, right.
Although I guess this predatesMatrix is the date on Matrix.
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
99.
So, I mean, and it it I think itcomes from Bill and Ted.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
And so it kind of built up becomes sort of a
typecast that follows him, eventhough the cat like Ted is very,
I imagine, is a very differentcharacter than Jack, is a very
different character than Neo.
But that sort of like slightlydim kind of follows the actor.
That's really interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Those are some of the things, like just what we're
gonna be talking about.
Cool as we go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:39):
Well, fill in the details, because since all I got
is if you go slower than fast,it blows up.
And these two beautiful peopleare in it.
Like, like why?
Why if it goes slower than fast,it blows up?
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
So I'm gonna it's bonkers, so I'm gonna try to
quickly, speedily, one mightsay.
Godspeed.
Go through what happens.
So we start in a it takes placein Los Angeles.
We start in a uh very talloffice building, 42nd floor, I
(09:12):
believe, where there is a 13people get into an elevator.
It is an express elevator thatjust goes from that 42nd floor
down to the first floor, Ibelieve.
So there are no like no doors inbetween on the floors in
between.
And the bomber, who we laterfind out, his name is Howard
Payne.
I'm just gonna refer to him asDennis Hopper because it's
easier for me, because we don'tfind out his name until like the
(09:34):
very end of the movie.
But Dennis Hopper, at the veryhe has bombs that cut the
cables, and all elevators havebrakes.
So it cuts the cables, thebrakes like engage, and so the
elevator stops somewhere around30 or 31.
But there are bombs attached tothe brakes.
(09:56):
And so the bomber has said hewants$3 million or he's gonna
blow the brakes.
So LAPD shows up, including JackTravan and his partner, Harry
Temple, who is played by JeffDaniels.
Sorry, and Jack Travan is KeanuReeves.
Jack Travan is Keanu Reeves withhis hair buzzed very short and
looking hot.
Oh my God.
(10:17):
So we see that the bomber is inanother elevator and he is
listening.
And so he is nearby and he's gotthings, all kinds of stuff set
up, including like detonators.
And so Harry and well, Jackvolunteers himself and Harry to
go check out the bomb becauseHarry is the bomb expert.
(10:39):
And so they go and they take alook at it, and they have been
told that if they try to get thepassengers out, he'll I for some
reason they are not supposed totry to get the passengers out.
And they have 23 minutes untilthe time is up.
So Jack is convinced that thereis some way around the issue
(11:01):
they're in.
He's like, How much do you thinkthis elevator weighs?
He goes up, he finds there issome sort of crane on the roof,
and he gets a hook to that craneand like hooks it to the
elevator and starts getting thepassengers out through an access
panel on one of the doors, orexcuse me, one of the floors.
(11:22):
So there's no doors, but there'san access panel, and they can
get the people out, thinkingthat there's no way the guy
would know about it.
But he, because he can hearthem, he blows the um brake
early, but they still manage torescue all 13 passengers.
They get into a confrontationwith Dennis Hopper.
Now, during the time they'd beenworking, at one point, Harry and
(11:45):
Jack are just like back andforth, like pop quiz, hot shots.
And so Harry asks Jack, like,You're at the airport, bomber
has a hostage, is trying to getto a plane, you're 100 feet
away.
What do you do?
And Jack says, You shoot thehostage, take the hostage out of
the equation.
And holy shit.
And Harry's like, You're sick,man.
(12:06):
And so it gets to a point wherethe bomber has Harry and is
holding him, has uh a bomb andis like trying to get away.
And Harry says to Jack, shootthe hostage, because they just
had that conversation.
So Jack shoots Harry in the leg,which means that the bomber no
longer has leverage.
(12:27):
And so he runs away and likethere's an explosion, which they
believe means he he died in hisown explosion.
Uh-huh.
So Jack and Harry receivemedals, and uh Harry is like
grumbling, like, I can't believeyou shot me.
He's like, You told me to.
Then we see that the bomber iswatching them get these medals.
(12:51):
Also, the bomber is missing histhumb on his left hand.
The next morning, Jack isgetting coffee and he says hi to
a bus driver, pulls up, getscoffee right behind Jack.
They apparently see each otherdaily.
Bus driver gets into his bus,pulls away, bus explodes.
Jack runs after it, and likeit's clearly there's nothing to
(13:13):
do with it.
Too late, nothing to be.
Yeah.
And the bus was empty because hewas it was before he had
starting his route.
There's a phone ringing, like apayphone for those of us who
were not born yet in 1994.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Right.
A payphone was kind of like acell phone, except it stayed in
one place and it only stayed inthat one place, and you had to
put coins in it in order to makea call.
But other people could call itbecause it had a number.
Okay.
Sorry.
That was a little aside for ourGen Z listen.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
And it's the bomber calling Jack, saying, pop quiz
hot shot.
There's a bomb on a bus.
If it goes over 50 miles perhour, the bomb engages.
If it goes under 50 miles anhour, the bomb explodes.
And what do you do?
And he's like, Well, I'd want toknow which bus.
He's like, All right, there'ssome rules.
I'll tell you which bus it is,and I'll tell you where it is,
but no passengers may leave thebus or I'll explode it.
(14:09):
So that starts a race to try toget to the bus.
We then see the bus, and it islike to the film's credit, they
have a very diverse cast ofextras on this bus.
I mean, it is a lot of it's LosAngeles.
It's also like, in some ways,it's also just like it's a very
(14:32):
diverse cast of extras.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
It's like somebody was like with a check.
Yeah.
Like, where's the Asian guy?
Asian guy.
Okay, Asian guy.
All right, all right, wait, weneed a disabled person.
Who's got a cane?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
All right.
So when we first see the bus, itis we see Sandra Bullock, her
character's name is Annie, likerunning to catch it, going,
like, please, and she is Sam thebus driver, finally like takes
pity on her and opens the door.
He's like, you know, this isn'ta bus stop.
She's like, Oh, you're a goodand kind man.
They'll write songs about youone day, Sam.
(15:05):
And so we get to meet some ofthe people on the bus.
So Sam the bus driver, she sitsdown and there is a tourist
played by Alan Ruck, who isCameron in Ferris Bueller, who
is kind of like hitting on herslash talking your ear off.
And so she likes moves seats,sits next to another woman named
Helen, played by Beth Grant,passes Beckdell because they
(15:26):
talk about taking the bus.
And so it turns out Annie, shemisses her car.
Her license has been suspended.
There are, and then justeveryone's commuting.
It is eight o'clock in themorning.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Do we have like a ransom or something from Alan
from um Dennis Hopper?
Or is it just is he just apsychologist?
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
He wants$3.7 million.
He had wanted$3 million thefirst time.
It's been like probably about amonth, and now he wants$3.7
million.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Okay.
And what's that in today'sdollar?
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Like, I looked it up and it's about like$1.81 million
dollars.
And that that is one of thethings I'm gonna get to.
It's like I'm not saying that'snot a lot of money, because
that's a lot of money and itwould be a w life-changing
amount of money for a lot ofpeople.
But especially in Los Angeles,that's not that much money.
SPEAKER_00 (16:15):
Okay, so he's saying, give me this three
million, 3.7 or but he also isgiving them the opportunity like
okay, all right, carry on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
And at this point he's made it clear like it's
because Jack pissed him off.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Yeah, right.
That's well, that's why I asked,because it doesn't sound like
it's actually like to getsomething, except to like get
back at Jack.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
So the bus is still in the local routes at first,
and so has not gone over 50miles an hour yet.
So the but the bomb has not yetbeen active.
So Jack is driving after it,like driving like a maniac,
manages to catch up with the busin traffic and like runs after
it and is like banging on thedoor, manages to like smash the
(17:02):
glass a little bit and scaresthe crap out of everyone.
He is in plain clothes, so likethey don't and like he's not
able to like show his badge.
So they're just like, No, we'renot letting you on this bus.
And so, and then by the timelike traffic picks up again,
he's far enough away from hisown car that he can't go back.
(17:22):
So he commandeers this guy'sJaguar.
SPEAKER_02 (17:26):
Of course, it's a Jaguar.
They never commandeer like theToyota Camry.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
And it's a convertible too.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
I mean, of course you didn't even have to tell me
that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I already knew.
So, and the guy's like, so atthe what it's kind of a funny
line because he he said he'slike, LAPD, take this car.
And the guy's like, it's my carbecause there's a black guy
driving.
It's my car.
I didn't steal it.
It's or it's my car, it's notstolen.
And uh, and so then he takesJack takes out his gun, he's
like, now it is, move over.
(18:00):
That's actually really funny.
So he's racing after it, and atthis point, the bus does get
over 50 miles an hour.
He's able to get there, like getthere the bus driver's attention
and show his badge, but theycan't understand each other
because trying to talk overtraffic.
So he has the the guy whoseJaguar it is write bomb on bus
(18:23):
and like he's trying to hold itup, like he gets in front of the
bus, trying to hold it up, andit ends up like flying against
the windshield.
And like poor Sam gets freakedout and starts to slow down.
He's like, Don't slow down.
And then at that point, he'slike, All right, I need to get
on that bus.
And he asks, and this again, Iwouldn't bring this up except
that I'm gonna talk about itlater.
(18:43):
He asks the Jaguar owner, Areyou insured?
He's like, Yeah, man, yeah, I'minsured.
He's like, All right, and so heopens the door and like pulls
ahead and then stops.
So the door comes off.
So like is is is pulled as likeby the bus.
Like the bus rips the door offrips the door off so that he can
then like jump from the Jaguaronto the bus.
(19:07):
Okay, and so and then the Jaguarowner, he's like, Here, take the
wheel, the Jaguar.
Oh, and he the Jaguar owner hasa cell phone, which was not that
common necessarily in 1994.
And he's like, I'm taking this.
And at that point, the Jaguarowner's like, fine, take the
phone.
That guy, that guy's great.
I love him.
(19:29):
So anyway, he gets on the bus.
There is a guy on the buslooking very sweaty and
uncomfortable.
He's not explaining what'shappening.
He tells the bus driver, buthe's not explaining to everyone
else what's happening becausehe's trying to avoid panic.
But the guy, the sweaty anduncomfortable guy gets up and
like holds a holds a gun onJack.
And Jack pulls up his gun andhe's like, I'm not here for you.
(19:50):
We're just two cool guys.
I'm putting my gun away, I'mputting my badge away.
I'm just Jack right now.
Like, please put that away.
And another passenger trying tohelp, like, tackles the sweaty
guy, and it means he uhaccidentally pulls the trigger
and ends up shooting the busdriver.
Oh no.
(20:11):
So poor Sam.
So Annie ends up taking overdriving.
Who's lost her license?
Who's lost her license, andthey're able to like stabilize
Sam, and then at that point,Jack says and Jack handcuffs the
shooter and he says, I'm reallynot here for you.
There's a bomb on the bus.
(20:32):
I was trying to avoid freakingy'all out, but that's what's
going on.
So shenanigans ensue.
I'm not sure.
So he at that point he is ableto he gets in touch with his
lieutenant Mac.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
On the cell phone he stole from the Jaguars.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Yes.
And with Harry.
And so Harry has him look underthe bus.
There's an access panel.
The Sam tells him, like, there'san access panel, he can stick
his hand head underneath tolook.
And he sees there's a a bombthat is wired through a like
tacky gold watch, like the kindyou get when you retire.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
And so Harry's working on trying to figure out
like how to disable the bomb andlike why, like, who could have
done this while the police aretrying to figure out a safe
place for them to go becausethey end up having to get off
the freeway because it'scrowded, and so they have to
(21:35):
slow down.
So they get into city streets,and that's terrifying.
Right.
Going 50.
Uh-huh.
And so they're able to get ontothe 105, which is under which is
completed, had been underconstruction and is completed
but not yet open.
So they get to that, and thenthey have conversations with the
(21:57):
bomber who calls.
Like they give the bomber thecell phone number of the Jaguar
owner.
The bomber refers to Annie, thedriver, who tells Jack, she's
like, I should let you know I amtaking the bus because my
driver's license has beensuspended.
He's like, Oh, for what?
And she goes, speeding.
(22:19):
All right.
So wait, Dennis Hopper refers toAnnie as uh the wild cat behind
the wheel.
unknown (22:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
So they have like this um flatbed truck on the
empty highway next to the bus.
And so Jack convinces the bomberto let Sam go so that he can get
because he's injured.
Because he's injured.
Uh-huh.
There are news helicoptersfollowing overhead.
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
Uh-huh.
A la OJ sent me.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yes.
And Helen is like freaking out.
She's like, Well, can't we allget off?
And Jack is saying, No, we can'tdo that.
And Mac and the other police onthe flatbed are like, No, no,
no, let's let's unload the restof the passengers.
And Jack's like, No, I don'tknow how he knows, but like,
we've got eyes above us.
I don't like he knows.
And so once they've passed Samover, Helen kind of reaches out,
(23:12):
and the other police officersare like, Yeah, yeah, reach
over.
And as soon as uh the bombersees it, he blows a smaller
detonator on the steps of thebus and she falls and falls
under the wheels of the bus.
SPEAKER_03 (23:23):
And oh, gruesome.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
So Annie is really freaked out about it for any
reason.
The next shenanigan is thatalthough the 105 is supposed to
be completed, there is a gap.
There's a 50-foot gap wherethere is Oh, did they jump a
bus?
They jumped a bus.
unknown (23:43):
Neat.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
So they gotta jump that, which as a what was I, a
15-year-old, I'm watching thatgoing like that is not
physically possible.
Nope, nope, nope, nope in acartoon.
Don't believe it.
Anyway, they they get to a pointwhere because Jack is certain
that he's watching the news, heonce they get to the other side
(24:05):
of that gap, they're near theLAX.
And so he's like, Here, get offand go to the LAX.
So they can continue ridingaround the runways relatively
safely in the airport, and it'srestricted airspace.
So they can't have news teamsfollowing them there.
At that point, he talks to thebomber again, says, I need to
(24:26):
get off so I can negotiate toget you your money.
And reluctantly, Dennis Hopperagrees.
That's when he goes under thebus to try to disarm the bomb.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
On that little dolly thing.
Which I don't think those wheelsactually could spin that fast.
Those little skateboard wheelsthat are on dollies.
Yeah, anyway.
Okay.
So and they happen to have oneof those on the bus.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Oh, no, no.
It's like the police are therewith everything.
Oh, oh.
Like, yeah, the police havecome, like they, they are they
provide the dolly in a truckahead of them.
Got it.
That has a and it's attached toa like a flywheel with a long
cord to it.
And I mean, they they've got asetup.
All right, all right.
I mean, if you're gonnamilitarize the police, at least
(25:15):
you've got something to protectKeanu Reeves.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
Right.
Okay.
All right, all right.
The the case for militized premilitarized pre police is Keanu
Reeves' safety.
Yeah, got it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
So it doesn't go well because with all the
shenanigans, the bus's tires arestarting to come apart.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
Cool, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
So they just barely managed to get Keanu back, or
excuse me, Jack back onto thebus because the whole Dolly
situation falls apart.
And he had to use a screwdriverin the gas tank to hold on.
So now they're also losing gas.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Oh, so now they're leaking gas.
Cool.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Great.
Meanwhile, Harry has figured outthat considering how well the
bomber understands bombs, and hedoesn't use the same one because
the MO with bombers is they findone that works for them, they've
and they're monogamous.
That's what they use.
But he uses all different kindsall over the place, and it's
like he knows it all.
And he's like, he always knowswhat we're doing.
And he's like, What if he's acop?
(26:15):
And so he's like, Look intopension records.
I want someone who is ondisability because he's missing
a thumb.
And so they finally find him.
He was forced into retirement in1989, and they now know his
name.
And he's like, We've got ourscumbag, and they are going to
his house, which as soon as theyget there, it has been rigged to
explode, and everybody, theentire team is caught in this
(26:39):
explosion, including Harry.
Oh, Harry dies.
Oh.
So plot armor doesn't protectHarry?
Plot armor does not protectHarry.
SPEAKER_04 (26:47):
Sad.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
So Jack gets a call thinking it's from Harry, and it
is because this is back whencell phones didn't tell you who
was calling.
Can you imagine?
And it's the bomber saying,sorry he didn't make it.
And he refers to Annie as thatwildcat again.
Jack starts freaking out becausehis best friend just died.
(27:09):
And once he calms down, henotices that Annie's sweatshirt
has University of Arizona logoon it.
And he's like, They're thewildcats.
And he's like, he can see us.
And he looks around and he findsa video camera that's right up
at the top.
So they ask the local news, theyfind the transmission.
(27:30):
There's local news nearby.
They ask them to find that,create a loop, and send it.
So, and then once they have thatgoing, they get the passengers
off and then let the busexplode.
Once they're safe, they get acall from the bomber saying,
like, where's my money?
And Mac, the the lieutenant, islike, I'm gonna tell him where
(27:51):
his money is.
And he's just like, he doesn'tknow the bus has exploded.
And they're like, Oh yeah.
So they think, okay, now we canget him.
So they go to make the drop.
It's in a trash can, and theyhave like the entire place
surrounded.
Annie goes with them.
She's in an ambulance becauseshe and she and Jack are all
lovey-dovey at this point.
(28:12):
But she's safely in theambulance, but she gets out just
for a little fresh air.
And the bomber dressed as a copcomes and says, Oh, it's not
safe for you here, miss.
And she's like, Oh, Jack Travansaid it was okay.
He's like, Oh, yeah, he sent me.
He wants to make sure you'resafe.
As they're watching, and it'she's late for the pickup.
Jack is like, something's wrong.
He goes, he pushes over thetrash can, finds a hole in it, a
(28:34):
hole in the floor, and it goesdown into the subway, and he
fall goes down, down, lowershimself below, and the bomber
has put a bomb on Annie, had herpick up the money, and he's
using her as the hostage now.
And he's like, You're not gonnashoot this hostage, are ya?
They end up on a subway goingway too fast with Annie because
(28:58):
they're in the subway.
Strapped to a bomb.
Okay.
And so Jack is following, has tothe everyone else.
There's no one else on thesubway except for the driver who
the bomber kills.
Jack is on top of the subway,and the bomber hears him, climbs
up on there as well.
They tussle, and Jack manages tokill him by pushing him up so
(29:23):
that his head is cut off by oneof those lights that are low.
Like, yeah, it's pretty awful.
SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
That's gruesome.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
He comes back down, and when the bomber had killed
the driver, he had like messedup all the mechanics of the
subway.
And so they can't stop it.
And the tunnel is unfinished.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Of course it is.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Annie is handcuffed to a pole, and so like they'd
have to jump, and there's no thehe she can't.
And so um Jack says, like, allright, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
speed it up so that we jump offthe tracks and maybe we'll
survive that way.
And so that's what he does.
And like they hug each other andlike they jump off the tracks
and end up on HollywoodBoulevard and like are okay and
(30:09):
smooch.
Doesn't she have a bomb on herstuff?
Oh, he got the stick thatcontrols the bomb, and that it
was easy to like because he justwanted to be able to put it on
her quickly, he could unhook itand bombs neutralized.
All right.
So the bomb has been neutral.
Bombs neutralized.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Alright.
Well, that took a that was notquick.
I tried.
I know.
Let's get into it.
Let's get into it.
Let's go straight into it.
So I feel like we should startwith money because you're a
hammer and it's hammer time.
So talk to me about money inthis film.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
So I remembered that Dennis Hopper wanted money.
I remembered that was hisreasoning for this, that he was
bitter because he lost hiscareer when he had the injury
that made him lose his thumb,and that he felt like his
pension was too small.
And there's a point where, like,when Keanu Reeves at the
beginning is like going upsidedown to hook the crane to the
(31:09):
elevator.
He's like, Why do I do this jobagain?
And Harry says to him, Oh,because after 30 years, you can
get a cheap gold watch and atiny pension.
So, like, we set this up thatlike cops don't get paid well.
And then they were tired ofcrap.
So I remembered that.
(31:30):
But when the amount that DennisHopper was asking for was three
million dollars, I remembergoing, really?
Yeah.
As like Austin Howard.
One million dollars.
I'm like, yeah, because like I'mnot saying it's not a lot of
money, but it's really not thatmuch money.
(31:53):
Yeah.
So like that just really waslike his cognitive dissonance
for me.
And 3.7 is such a specificnumber.
Yeah, to go up to where, like,you know, go whole hog, Dennis.
Say four.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
You watch it yourself at 250.
SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
So, so that that really struck me as odd.
And then particularly since it'sset in LA, which now LA in 2025
is like impossible to live infor a but I think even in 94, it
was an expensive place to live.
(32:39):
Like it it in our lifetime, Idon't think it has ever been a
place where, like, oh yeah, lowcost of living, nice place to
raise the kids.
It's never been that.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (32:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
So that was, and he had been a police officer in
Atlanta and had retired to LosAngeles.
To LA.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
All right.
So that was weird to me.
Then as I'm watching the hugeamount of destruction that is
being wrought upon Los Angeles.
(33:12):
Like a lot more than$3 million.
It is so much more than$3million.
Starting with Bob, the uh busdriver.
I don't know.
I'm just assuming he probablyhad life insurance.
And if he had some sort of likeand the bus company, because
like driving is a relativelyhigh risk profession.
(33:34):
And so you get higher lifeinsurance payout, your family
does, right, if you die on thejob.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
And then like accidental death and
dismemberment policy.
And then the cost of the bus,like just the bus itself is
probably, I mean, a hundred andfifty thousand dollar bus.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Plus, then there's like City Street down this that
needs to be prepared.
So I'm like, So, like theinsurance agents alone are like,
just pay the money.
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
Yeah.
And so, like, when they're like,So it's 8 a.m.
when all this starts, and hewants his money by 11 a.m.
And Jack is like, there's no waywe can do that that quickly.
And I'm like, you talk to anactuary, they will be like, give
the man his money, we can findit.
Like, just with the amount thatthe bus company, that the not
(34:22):
the bus company, but the LosAngeles, the city of Los Angeles
is out for poor Bob and that busand that city street is probably
already close to three million.
It's getting there.
So, like, if he were asking for50 million, that I would
(34:46):
understand.
So now obviously we wouldn'thave a movie if if they just
paid him.
If they just paid him.
SPEAKER_03 (34:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:53):
But there the film intentionally did that.
Now, I think some of it is theycontinuously say he's crazy, not
stupid.
And at one point, Annie asksJack, why is he doing it?
Did we bomb his country orsomething?
Like that.
She asks, like, why is this guydid he put this bomb on this
(35:16):
bus?
And he's like, It's just formoney.
He just wants money.
And he's like, Okay, so we payhim, he goes away.
He's like, No, he gets the moneyand he wins.
He both blows up the bus and hewins.
He's like, okay, well, what ifyou win?
Well, then we play againtomorrow, is how Jack describes
it.
So that is part of it as well.
And that's where I'm thinking,like, why I feel like this movie
(35:38):
is about money in a way that'sthat is not just me looking at
it.
Because it's saying that themoney isn't really important.
I mean, that's what's on theback of the bus.
It's saying, like, money doesn'treally matter.
Yeah, right.
Because it doesn't really matterto Dennis Hopper, but it's the
(36:03):
entire reason he's doing this,and yet he would do the horrible
things anyway.
And so, like, there's this veryweird conversation going on in
this tension about like whatreally matters in here.
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
Yeah.
Now, before we hit record, younamed the fact that there's like
attached to the money is alsoclass because we see these two
separate bombing incidents.
The first one in like a Sheetonihigh-rise with posh business
people, and the second one, likewith folks from the other side
of the socioeconomic spectrumriding the bus.
(36:42):
Can you like unpack that alittle bit?
Like, what's up with that?
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
So that I think is really interesting because
Dennis Hopper says he spent twoyears planning the elevator
bombing.
And that, considering the factthat he had been a police
officer, which is considered ablue-collar job.
And when we first meet him, heis working on the elevator
shaft, and there's a securityguard who comes in and says,
(37:06):
Hey, you're not supposed to behere.
He's like, Oh, yeah, I got alast-minute work order.
He's like, Well, I didn't seeany work order, I'm gonna need
to see it.
And so the bomber kills thisguy.
Like, he's like, Oh, yeah, letme get the work order.
And then he gets gets like aweapon and kills the guy, and
he's like, Sorry, it's notpersonal.
And so there is this slightsense that there is a little bit
(37:29):
of like solidarity.
I mean, not solidarity, it'slike it's not personal.
Like, you know, you're just inmy way.
And he doesn't Whereas maybe itis personal with the hostages.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Yeah.
Kind of, kind of.
On the elevator, and and it'sdefinitely personal with Jack.
Right.
Though that, you know, it'sinteresting coming back to sort
of the money isn't everything.
Like, it's personal with Jack.
Like it's about the money, butit's not actually about the
money.
It's about showing up this dude.
I mean, there's a lot simplerways that someone with the
(38:01):
knowledge of bombs could ask fora ransom than this like weird
puzzle with the bus.
Yeah.
And he left clues that couldallow Jack to solve it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's it it's sort of aboutbeing met.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
Yeah.
And he the other thing that Ithink is interesting, and I
talked a little bit about beforewe hit record, consistently the
bomber like talks about Jack asnot being that intelligent.
And he he says that Harry is thebrains of the operation.
Well, Harry's the bomb expert.
But Jack is really smart.
Now, some of it is he describesit as like, I've got a gut
(38:43):
feeling.
So, like when he's like, There'ssomething not right about this
with the elevator, and he'slike, Let's take the hostages
out of the equation.
And he's like, I think he'sstill here.
Because uh, when he sets thebomb off early, like three
minutes early, they're like,Well, maybe he just got wanted
to do it early.
He could be anywhere settingthat bomb off.
(39:04):
And he's like, No, he'd want tomonitor it from here.
Like, there's this place iscrawling with police.
Why would he do that?
And like, and Jack's like, Ijust have a feeling.
And so, but that is a kind ofintelligence, even if it's not
it's not the kind ofintelligence where you can show
your work.
Right, that sort of intuition.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
And consistently he he outsmarts Dennis Hopper,
which is like there is this wehave typecast Keanu Reeves as
like not too bright surfer dude.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
Right.
I mean, right, we said that, buteven though the characters are
very different from from Ted tothis character to Neo, they're
all different characters, butthat sort of like not that sort
of dimness, but it's also it'salmost like Born Sexy Yesterday
kind of dimness, right?
Because there's like this levelof um not quite smart, but also
(40:02):
like very, very smart or good atsomething else in each of those
three characters I just named.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
And it's also like he's the shoot the hostage, it's
actually very smart.
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
It's ruthless.
Yeah, yeah.
But if it is just about the gameof strategy and you don't care
what the consequences are orwhat the cost is, that is a way
to win.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Yeah.
And it was it was like thatconversation is what allowed him
and Harry together to win rightinitially.
SPEAKER_00 (40:37):
Right.
Before we hit record, you alsosaid that you wanted to get a
little bit meta about Keanu andhis performance here.
So let's stay with Keanu Reeveshere and and tell me, tell our
listeners what you told mebefore we hit record.
SPEAKER_01 (40:53):
So River Phoenix passed away either during
filming or just beforehand.
And the director like rearrangedthe shooting so that Reeves
could attend the funeral and togive him a little time to grieve
and have like he had a lessintense shooting schedule, which
is lovely.
It's lovely to know that thatthey did that for him.
(41:15):
And apparently, Keanu Reeves wassaying to DeBaunt, I'm not a
hero.
Like doing this action filmafter having lost this good
friend of his felt inauthenticin a way, and he's like, I like
I don't feel like a hero.
And the director has said thatkind of cognitive dissonance
(41:36):
that he was experiencing broughtmore to the performance.
SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
I mean, does make a certain amount of sense for what
I just which I only know fromwhat you're telling me, but what
I understand of this character,Jack, who's just a cop on the
job.
Like, why am I doing this again?
Yeah.
Right?
Like, he doesn't think ofhimself as a hero either.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
And in particular, the when he learns of Harry's
death, like he really he's heldit together and been like, he's
been what the passengers on thebus need him to be.
Uh-huh.
And he is just overwhelmed withlike the rage kind of grief at
that moment.
(42:15):
Oh.
And Annie's like, please stop,please stop.
We need you to hold it together.
Like, we need you to do.
And you think maybe Keanu wasbringing some of his actual
grief around Phoenix, Phoenix'sdeath.
Yeah.
And it's very real.
Like it's a very real moment.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
That's really fascinating.
SPEAKER_01 (42:31):
Yeah.
And in such a like silly bonkersfilm.
And the way she brings him backis she's like, I can't do this
without you.
We can't do this without you,please.
And that's when he like kind oflike kind of calms down, and
then he like turns to her and hegoes, We're all going to die.
So like he like pulls ittogether for the rest of the
(42:53):
passengers, but he's not able todo it.
Yeah.
But that's when he notices thather sweatshirt is University of
Arizona.
And that's when he's like, Okay,I've got something.
But it's where I'm like, Iresent people being like, he
doesn't, he's not a good actor.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah.
All right.
In our last couple minutes, youwanted to talk about romance.
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
So there is like this really interesting like
interplay between Annie andJack.
Like, just there's a little bitof like kind of flirting.
Like he keeps calling her ma'am.
And at some point she's like,Annie.
My name's Annie.
And there's there's a little bitof that.
And then when she runs throughthat when she's on the streets
(43:41):
valet, she runs like through anintersection, and there's a
woman pushing what looks like ababy carriage, and she sh she
hits it and she's like so upset.
And it didn't have a baby in it.
It was an old-fashioned babycarriage, and the woman had like
filled it with cans, but she'slike horrified.
And he like calms her down.
And so there's this like senseof like they're supporting each
(44:04):
other.
SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
Uh-huh.
Yeah, that's nice.
SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
So there's the first time everything's okay after the
bus has exploded and everyone'sfine.
She's like, Are you gonna getall mushy on me now?
And he's like, I don't know, Imight.
And she's like, I gotta warnyou, relationships that start
from an intense experience neverlast.
I've done extensive study onthis.
And then once they are safeagain after the subway, he's
(44:27):
like, Well, I've heard thatrelationships that start based
on an intense experience neverlast.
And she's like, We're just gonnahave to base this one on sex
then.
So, like, I mean, on the onehand, I really appreciate like
the just the sex positive waythat they interact and all of
(44:49):
that.
I also, when she realizes likeshe can't get out of the
handcuffs and she's like, youneed to jump off.
Like the I can't get out ofhere, you need to save yourself.
And he doesn't.
And like there's there'smultiple times where like they
are just like when he finallygets back on after getting on
the dolly, she's like so freakedout and so worried, and he gets
(45:11):
back on and she's like hittinghim.
She's like, You jerk, you scaredthe crap out of me, and stuff
like that.
So, like, there's a lot ofreally lovely, nice little
things in there so that you sortof believe.
Yeah, their their chemistry isreally good, but it's also like
he couldn't see her eyes fromwhere he was, and she couldn't
see his.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
Well, so it's interesting.
What I'm hearing is that thereare these like moments, these
guideposts, and then we fill inlike that's kind of how these
things work.
There is enough chemistrybetween these two characters and
these two actors that the viewerlike fills in the rest.
SPEAKER_01 (45:55):
Well, I mean we believe it.
The director, like we directorintended for us to think that
they were looking at eachother's.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
No, no, I know.
I know, but like it it'll likewhat I mean is like we sort of
we gloss over the bits thataren't either aren't there or
wouldn't actually work.
Yeah.
We just gloss over it and fillin the details.
That's funny.
Any final words before I try andreflect back to you what I
heard?
SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
Well, I think this kind of like disaster film,
which I I like, I think this isalso kind of a disaster film.
I don't know.
I don't know if it counts.
SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
I mean it's an action adventure.
It's an action adventure.
But it's I don't think it is adisaster because there's because
it's human-made, it's not Yeah,that's true.
By by a single individual, it'snot like you know, it's not
towering inferno.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
Yeah, yeah.
But there's something about likewe love these, like, and I said
it myself, like I love villainswho are chewing the scenery.
Like I love when they'reenjoying themselves.
Mm-hmm.
But it like as I'm you'rewatching them like kiss at the
end in the subway, I'm like, howmuch destruction did he wreak in
one day in Los Angeles?
(47:05):
Like, that's ridiculous.
And for what?
So yeah, I don't know.
It's it gets to that, like myproblem with like serial killer
movies and like and FreddyKrueger and stuff like that,
where we're like we get soenamored of the bad guy because
(47:27):
they're so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (47:29):
Yeah, yeah.
All right, so let me see if Ican reflect this back to you
fairly quickly because we'rerunning short on time.
So you are a hammer, but alsothis movie is a nail because
it's all about money.
Although it says it's notbecause the back of the bus says
money isn't everything.
Parentheses, no, really.
And I think that actually istrue.
It's not really about moneybecause actually, like, there
(47:53):
are much, much simpler ways forDennis Hopper to use his
knowledge of bomb making to rget money as ransom.
Like, it's also about sort ofthe chase and the riddle.
It's kind of like Batman and theRiddler almost, or like Bond
villains who like want anemesis.
(48:13):
So there's something like kindof interesting about that, about
the money, but not really themoney.
And also to throw on top of thatthe class piece of this, where
this guy who is a working class,he's a cop who didn't get enough
money.
And that's kind of his motive.
And so his initial target isvery Tony-shy business people
(48:34):
who maybe can't afford to payhis$3 million ransom, which
really isn't that much money.
But when that doesn't work, hegoes after everyday folks who
have less potentialtheoretically because they're
riding the bus.
And I'm not exactly sure what todo with that.
Like, that's really interesting.
And we we named the fact thatlike his number goes up, but
(48:54):
only by$700,000.
Like, why did he cheat himselfthe extra 300?
Like, go for the four.
Anyway, that's sort of aninteresting thing.
And you name the fact that themovie makers really wanted us to
see that this bus is a slice ofLA.
You know, they like had theAsian guy and they had the
disabled person and they had thelike this woman and the black
person and the white person andthe whatever.
(49:15):
Like, they really wanted us tosee, like, they had a checklist
of different identities in LA.
So well done, we noticed.
And then we see this intenseromance between these two
players.
I'm going a little out of orderof our conversation, but one of
the takeaways was these twoplayers have this sort of cute,
flirty in the midst of romance,but also reciprocal.
(49:38):
He calms her down, she calms himdown.
Like there's like actualreciprocal support, these
guideposts and this chemistry,which allows us to kind of gloss
over things that might bemissing or that might just be
inaccurate because he couldn'thave seen her eyes and she
couldn't have seen his eyes inthat scene.
Also, the bus would not havemade that jump.
SPEAKER_01 (49:57):
Yeah.
Right.
And like, how would that notthen like trigger the bomb?
Set off the bomb.
SPEAKER_00 (50:01):
Yeah.
So there's the one of the thingsthat I heard from you, like in
the subtext, is that this movieis just really fun.
And, you know, it has the stakesat the right level and the
action adventure at the rightpacing, that you're biting your
nails and not saying, thatwouldn't happen.
Instead, you're just like, ohgood, they made it.
(50:24):
So that's sort of an interestingnote.
You noted that this movie ispart of the trajectory of
watching Keanu Reeves playcharacters who are sort of come
off as maybe not quite thatbright in traditional
intellectual ways, but also verysmart or very accomplished in
(50:46):
other ways.
And that sort of follows theactor through very different
characters, and this is part ofthat trajectory.
And speaking of him as an actor,you named that this film
happened right around the timethat his friend River Phoenix
passed away, and that that griefactually gets translated into a
better performance.
(51:07):
Because not only did Reeves notfeel like he deserved to be an
action hero, which was accurateto the character he was playing,
he also there's a moment whenthe character experiences deep
grief, which maybe did wasinformed by the actor's deep
grief.
I think that was everything wetalked about.
SPEAKER_01 (51:25):
Villains being fun, being dramatic.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Right.
And and the villains being funsort of like kind of messes with
our heads in terms of like whatwe should be taking away from
films like this, where there'slike these complicated plots and
and actors kind of chewing thescenery in very fun ways where
they're having a very good time.
Yes, yes.
Although, on the other hand,it's kind of like a safe way for
(51:50):
us to kind of experience that.
True, very true.
So well, this was fun.
I guess I'm gonna have to watchit at some point, maybe.
Maybe I'll watch it with you.
SPEAKER_02 (51:58):
Because that would be so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:00):
Yeah.
And next week, I'm gonna changethe pace completely and bring
you my deep thoughts about afish called Wanda.
Oh been years since I saw that.
So, well, same.
See you then.
See you then.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(52:23):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes, or leave a positive
review so others can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
(52:44):
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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