All my life I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's... she's a fish.
When Tracie and Emily saw the 1984 Ron Howard film Splash as little girls, they fell in love with the badass mermaid played by Daryl Hannah. She was smart, determined, and romantic--and she had a gorgeous tail she could unfurl in Tom Hanks' bathtub. But on revisiting the movie this week, Tracie found some rather ugly and sexist assumptions bundled together with the romantic notions. Madison the mermaid learns how to be a human woman by shopping and her devotion to Allen makes very little sense. But like Disney's The Little Mermaid, it's possible to look at Splash as a trans allegory, which makes their romance and Allen's decision to join her in the sea a much more subversive story.
Sit back, relax, soak your fins, and take a listen!
Mentioned in this episode:
Why Magic Pixie Dream Girl Movies Are Uncomfortably Dark
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
is this a feminist movie and like spoiler alert?
No, but also there are momentsthat I think one could argue are
, and so it's one of those, likegive with one hand and take
with the other.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
just pop culture, what othersmight deem stupid shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
(00:22):
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts
About Stupid Shit, because popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't?
You know what's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
(00:43):
the 1980s Ron Howard film Splashwith my sister, emily
Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
All right, em, I know youremember this film because we've
talked about it a little bit,but tell me what's in your head.
What mental furniture do youhave about Splash?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So I know that Splash is the reason why there are
like three Madisons in my kid'sclass.
That name was not a name for agirl prior to, you know, 1984,
85, misses her mermaid self andso she puts Morton's salt in a
bath so she can have her tail,and that image really stuck with
me.
I remember her buying a hugefountain and putting it in his
(01:36):
apartment and then, other thanthat, the thing that stuck with
me from when I saw it for thevery first time was John Candy's
character would drop coins onthe ground so that he could look
up women's skirts, and I was sohorrified by that.
And the movie does not commenton it.
So I kind of remember bits andpieces of the plot.
(02:02):
Just, you know, daryl Hannah'sa mermaid.
She rescued Tom Hanks'character when he was a child, I
think, when he almost drowned,and she comes back again now
that he's an adult and yeah,that's that.
Oh, and Eugene Levy is like acryptid researcher or something
(02:23):
like that, or for the governmenthe's trying to prove that she's
a mermaid.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So you remember a lot about this movie, like you
remember a lot more about thismovie than I did when I went in
to watch it.
Really, okay, yeah, I'mimpressed.
So yeah, all of those thingsare right on.
So what I want to talk aboutwith you today are sort of the
relationship between DarylHannah's Madison and Tom Hanks's
(02:52):
Alan and sort of why, likewhat's in it for her, like
that's very unclear, and sort oflike what that taught us about
romance taught us about romance.
I also want to talk about someof the tropes that are employed.
So she is very much a born sexyyesterday, also a bit of a
manic pixie dream girl.
I want to think about this inconversation a little bit with
(03:14):
the Little Mermaid, which cameabout a decade later, because
they're both loosely based onthe Hans Christian Andersen and
they made different choices, andso I want to talk about some of
those.
And they made different choices, and so I want to talk about
some of those.
I also want to talk about sortof consumerism in this film and
consumerism as a gendered kindof phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Women be shopping, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And also I want to sort of askthe question like is this a
feminist movie?
And like, spoiler alert no, butalso there are moments that I
think one could argue are, andso it's one of those like give
with one hand and take with theother.
So these are the buckets thatI'm going to get into and,
actually, before we hit record,you mentioned a potential
(03:58):
interpretation that isfascinating to me that I want
you to share.
So, before we get into all ofthat, let me see if I can do a
plot synopsis.
I'm not even going to say it,I'm just going to do my best.
I'm not even going to say it'sgoing to be brief because we all
know it ain't.
We'll do what we can, so I'lldo my best.
I will do my best.
(04:18):
So the movie starts actually inblack and white, like 20 years
ago.
We're on cape cod, we're onthis ferry and we meet this
family.
So there's teddy, who is anolder brother.
He's a little bit chubby and,like the movie makes sure we see
that he is chubby and he's.
We see him dropping coins onthe ground so he can look up
(04:39):
women's skirts and then as achild, as.
Ugh, that's how we meet him.
And then his mom is like stopthat, stop that.
And then says to the dad liketalk to him.
And so the dad like smacks himon the top of the head and she
says, listen to your father.
Which actually is kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Listen to the smack on the top of your head Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So we know where they're in Cape Cod, they're in
the waters of Cape Cod and theyounger brother, alan, is sort
of like dreamy and lookingwistfully into the distance and
he doesn't want to go.
Look at Cape Cod from the boat.
The way that with the rest ofthe family and the mom is kind
of like well, if you change yourmind you know where we'll be.
And then inexplicably Alan islooking out at the water and
(05:28):
jumps and he sort of starts tosink and he's meant to be about
eight-ish, so, like Teddy's,like 10-ish.
So he starts to sink and then ablonde girl his age kind of
smiles at him and they're likeholding hands and smiling at one
another under the water.
Meanwhile the adults like manoverboard and they like pull him
(05:51):
out and he's still gazingwistfully at the water.
The boat kind of moves on andthis girl pokes her head up out
of the water and like istearfully looking at the boat
going away and then she divesand we see the fin.
So it was a mer girl.
Fast forward to present day.
(06:12):
We meet alan.
He runs a fruit wholesaler, sowe see him like on the docks
with fruit and like arguing withdifferent workers, like the
delivery guy and a customer whoowns a grocery store.
Teddy pulls up played by JohnCandy in the sports car and he
like knocks over a sack of fruitand we learn that he was
(06:34):
playing poker and like made adeal for this crappy cherries
that are rotting and we sort ofsee that the dynamic of the like
irresponsible older brother andthe was going to say more
responsible and he is, butthat's.
We didn't see that as a child,we just saw that he was kind of
dreamy.
Through the course of this welearned that he's going to a
(06:56):
wedding over the weekend fromone of his he Allen.
He Allen.
Thanks Tom Hanks is.
Allen is going to a weddingover the weekend.
From one of his employees,no-transcript asking him where
(07:27):
she is, where veronica is, andhe gets increasingly short with
them until one guy doesn't evenask and he's just like she's not
coming.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
All right, she left me, all right and I imagine that
, like with tom hanks, becausehe's so charming, yeah, and kind
of adorable.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
He is, although it's funny because this character is
not in that same way.
But you know.
So John Candy's Teddy is likeyou might want to apologize,
that was the bride's brother.
So anyway, they end up in a barafter and Alan gets
increasingly drunk.
Teddy like meets two women andis trying to like set up a thing
where they would.
The four of them would go out,and Alan just doesn't want to.
(08:07):
And so he goes out to and hecatches a cab and he says to the
cabbie I want to go to Cape Cod.
They're in New York City.
And the cabbie's like that's300 miles, you got the cash.
And he pulls out a wad of cash.
So the cabbie takes him to CapeCod.
He gets off at the beach.
We see him here.
He interacts with Eugene Levyfor the first time.
(08:29):
Eugene Levy's name is WalterKornbluth and he is, as you say,
some sort of researcher.
By the way, eugene Levy got waybetter looking as he got older.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It was those eyebrows Like they needed to be a little
bit gray, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't, and like he tamed his hair a bit, I don't
know Like.
I think he's like an attractiveman now, not like hot, but like
attractive, but he was not ayoung man Anyway.
Anyway, sorry, total aside.
So he is a researcher of somekind and we see him sort of
berating the locals whose boathe's hired.
Alan comes up to him on thebeach and is like I'm on the
(09:12):
wrong side of the island, I wantto be over there, can you guys
take me?
And Levy's super suspicious.
Who sent you?
Did Dr So-and-so send you?
You're a spy?
And Alan's like what?
He's still in his tuxedo andhis like morning coat from the
wedding.
Anyway, he ends up hiring a guyin this tiny motorboat and the
guy's name is like Fat Eddie orsomething, and the boat stops
(09:36):
working midway.
We've learned that Alan can'tactually swim.
Alan ends up getting knockedout.
Fat Eddie jumps into the waterbecause the engine's not working
.
He's going to go get the otherboat the smaller boat, by the
way, this is a tiny boat and soeventually Alan ends up in the
water.
He gets knocked out by the boatbecause he's managed to make
the engine work again, but thenfill out and it goes in a circle
(09:58):
, blah, blah, blah.
So he's sort of sinking down.
Enter Daryl Hannah.
As a mermaid, she rescues him.
We watch his wallet fall out ofhis pants and drop down.
She takes him to the beach andit's the same sort of like, just
like the Little Mermaid.
Like he wakes up in the sandand sees her from a distance.
(10:21):
She kind of like peeks up oversome rocks at him.
She's naked with legs and he'slike, hey, who are you?
Did you save me?
What's going on?
And like we don't know what hermotivation is.
But she just sort of scared alittle bit.
But she sort of runs up to him,gives him a kiss, not a peck,
and runs into the surf and he'slike wait, wait, where are you?
(10:44):
You know whatever Weird.
So we watch her retrieve hiswallet and then go to a
shipwreck where she pulls a mapoff the wall like a rolled map
of New York, because she'slooked at his ID that has a New
York address and she smiles atus.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So she can read English, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So he goes back to his life and like whatever.
We see him in the fruitbusiness and there's a couple
unnecessary sort of comic thingsand whatever.
And then we see we're at thestatue of liberty and madison
walks up out of the surfcompletely naked onto liberty
(11:33):
you know, the statue of libertyisland and she gets arrested for
being naked in a public park orwhatever.
Cut back back to Alan.
He gets a call from the copsbecause she still has his wallet
on her and they're like a nakedwoman is here.
Do you know this person?
He's like yes.
I do so.
(11:53):
He rushes to find her.
They see one another.
She kisses him again, again,not a peck, this is not a chaste
kiss that she gives him.
He takes her home and like.
She's not speaking and like,but it's clear they've had it.
Like they make it clear theyhave sex.
He has to go to work.
Yeah, and we don't see it.
(12:15):
It's not on screen.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, there's no question, I mean I guess, like
you can have consent without?
Oh no, there's no question thatshe consents.
She's sort of pursuing him sheis very aggressive with the
non-chaste touch I'm justthinking, like if this were a
real woman, who didn't that like?
There's just anyway yeah anyway.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So he goes to work and leaves her with the tv, and
so she's watching TV and likelearns I guess learns English
from watching TV, I don't know,but we see her sort of say the
word Bloomingdale's becauseshe's watching a bunch of
advertisements.
So the next thing we see she'swearing one of his suits.
I don't know how she tied thetie, but she's wearing one of
(13:02):
his suits.
She goes out the and the.
There's a doorman at thisapartment building where Alan
lives and he says where to missand she says Bloomingdale's.
This is the first word we'veheard her say.
So she goes to Bloomingdale's.
She's immediately met by like.
She's like in awe, like lookingaround Because you know she was
born sexy yesterday In thisgiant department store and
(13:24):
immediately a saleswoman, likevery New York accent, comes up
to her and is like oh, thisisn't working, this outfit isn't
working.
Let's see if we can get yousomething that fits you.
You're such a pretty girl.
And then this saleswoman, who'smiddle-aged late 40s, early 50s
says something like like askinny girl like you.
(13:45):
I don't know if she used theword skinny, actually I think
she said pretty, you should bein different things.
I have a dress I couldn't getone leg in it.
My daughter though my daughter'slucky, she's anorexic and like
it was played for laughs, yeah,so we see she does a lot of
shopping.
Presumably she took alan'scredit card, I don't know, but
(14:09):
she's got like bags and bags andbags and she's wearing
different clothes.
She ends up in the tvdepartment of the department
store and is like watching thetvs and like aerobicizing with
richard simmons and alan comeshome from work.
She, she's not in the apartmentand so he, like the doorman,
says where she went.
He goes to Bloomingdale's.
He finds her in the TV placeand the two sales guys in the TV
(14:32):
section of Bloomingdale's arelike she's been here for six
hours and like she kind of hasto go home.
We're closing and anyway, alanand Madison which that's not her
name yet are talking and hesays she doesn't speak English
to these two sales guys.
And then she says hi, alan, howare you?
I hope you had a nice day.
So they start talking and he'slike could you speak English?
(14:55):
Why didn't you talk before?
And she's like well, I didn'tknow it, I learned it from
watching TV.
And he's like well, what's yourname?
And she said well, it's hard tosay in English, and he said
well, just say it in yourlanguage.
And she like squeaks this, likesuper high pitch, like dolphin
(15:15):
kind of whistles, that likebusts all the TVs in the room.
They're walking away from thestore and they're talking about
their days and she's totalcombination manic pixie dream
born sexy yesterday.
Like taking her shoes off whilethey're walking on the street,
like reacting to all thesethings like oh, look at this,
look at that.
And like it's almost gets hitby a car, and like one of the
drivers is like you should puther on a leash.
And then she climbs up on astreet pole and points at the
(15:35):
walk sign, is like pretty, youknow.
So that Alan's like well, Iguess I've never thought about
it, but I guess it's pretty.
I've never thought about it,but I guess it's pretty.
He says we need a name for youthat I can actually pronounce.
What do you think?
And she's like well, what arethey?
And he was like well, there'smillions of names.
And he starts sort of listingnames and he says where are we?
Oh, madison.
(15:56):
He's looking at the street signand she says oh, I like that
name.
He says that's not a name,which is really funny from your
recollection.
And she like gets crestfallen.
So he's like no, it's a lovelyname, you know what?
It's a great name.
So that's her name.
So the thing that you rememberwith the bathtub that scene is
very memorable because the sortof above view of Daryl Hannah in
(16:17):
the tail, like stretched out inthis tub, is visually very
striking.
The scene is also reallystriking.
She's in the tub.
He wakes up and is like wonderswhere she is and comes to find
her and he says what are youdoing?
She says taking a bath.
He said can I come in?
She says no and he's like why?
What's the matter?
And he actually is like I'mgoing to bust down this door.
(16:39):
And she's like don't come in,don't come in.
And he actually busts down thedoor while she's like trying to
dry off because apparently,apparently the magic is that
when she's wet she has a tail bythe time he gets doesn't have
to be salt water or something.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
No, no, okay she does put.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You were right that she does put salt into the tub,
but it does not need to be saltwater, gotcha okay.
So that moment where there's awoman in the bathroom saying
don't come in and he like bustsdown the door, is not that the
charming tom hanks that I knowand love, like it's very, it's,
it's kind of disturbing andshe's upset and then finally,
(17:19):
when he does get in, she haslegs again and so she's sort of
lying on the floor like lookingup at him and he was like what
is going on?
And she was like I was shy andhe says shy after what happened
in the car and the elevator andthe you know, like implying all
the sex they've had.
And she's like, yeah, I was shyand like that moment stood out
to me in a way in this viewingthat I don't think it did in the
(17:42):
past yeah, if he thought thatshe was ill or something.
I think that is what he thinks.
Something is wrong, yeah, but Idon't think he has any reason
to believe she's in trouble.
Yeah, yeah.
And like needing space andprivacy, yeah, especially since
they've known each other for amatter of days.
(18:03):
Yeah, ugh, anyway.
So shenanigans ensue.
We see it's not exactly amontage, but it's kind of a
montage of, like Eugene Levy hasfigured out who she is and is
trying to like get her wet inpublic.
That is not a euphemism.
Like he's literally trying toget water on her.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That is not a euphemism like he's literally
trying to get water on her.
Considering what you said aboutyou, know how he has uh, aged
like fine wine.
It was a little bit moredifficult back then so he's
trying to.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
He's trying to like get water on her and he keeps
mistaking another woman for her.
And so we see him.
He gets like beat up repeatedly.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Oh, that's right, Doesn't he end up with like a
neck brace, a neck brace andlike one arm in a hard cast.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, meanwhile, you know, we see them, alan and
Madison, like doing stufftogether, so like they go for a
walk and they see the fountainthat you remember, with the
mermaid that he says he's alwaysliked, and she's like why?
And he's like I don't know.
You know, when I was a kidsomething happened and I don't
know.
And she says, oh, I remember.
And he's like what?
(19:15):
And she's like, oh, what's theEnglish word?
I meant I understand, likethat's how she covers it.
And he tells her that that parkis being dismantled to make
room for apartments or something.
So she does end up buying thisgiant fountain and putting it in
his apartment.
She buys it with her necklace.
We see in the beginning she'swearing this like fancy mermaid
(19:36):
necklace.
She has said from the verybeginning she has one week and
then she has to go home, becauseif she doesn't go home after a
week she can't ever go home.
So their week is almost up.
He thinks it's an immigrationthing, they're ice skating and
he asks her to marry him so thatshe can stay.
(19:57):
And she's like no, and he doesnot handle it well and he does
not handle it well.
So they end up kind of runningoff in separate directions and
it's raining, so she ends upsort of hiding under a bridge
for a while to avoid the rain.
The next morning she comes andfinds him at the fruit seller
place where he works and says,yes, and he's super excited,
(20:21):
they're actually going to driveto Maryland because you don't
need it.
Or he suggests they drive toMaryland because they don't need
a blood test in Maryland, buthe has this event to go to.
It's a dinner where thepresident is speaking, so he's
taking her instead of Teddy.
So they go to this thing andEugene Levy's Dr Kornbluth is
there, and this time Kornbluthmanages to get water on her as
(20:44):
they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And they get.
I can remember she's like in anevening gown or something like
that, and then she has a tail.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, yeah.
And she's sort of looking up athim from the ground and he's
just sort of stricken and theyget pulled apart by like the
crowd and like the governmentsort of agent sort of thing.
Like come and like bundle herinto like an SUV and she's
screaming, she's like yellinghis name the whole time.
Next we see they're both in aresearch facility.
(21:12):
He's in water up to his necklike naked except for like
medical things and like hold itcovering his genitals with his
hands going I'm not a fish.
The scientists are like he'sbeen in there 12 hours and no
change.
I think maybe he's just a man.
And then they decide to tryinteraction.
So they bring her in in a slingand drop her into the same tank
(21:33):
he's in and he's like so thiswas your big secret.
And she's like, yeah, I wasgonna tell you, don't be mad.
And he's mad.
So she kind of like sinks downto the bottom of the tank and
like just looks forlorn.
They pull him out, they keepher.
He has this conversation withhis brother where he's like do
(21:57):
you believe it?
Like I can't fall in love.
I thought there was somethingwrong with me and I finally fall
in love and she's a fish andhis brother's.
What is wrong with you?
Which is a funny?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
line yeah, I fall in love.
And she's a fish.
Yeah, it's kind of a funny line.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So John Candy's Teddy's like what is wrong with
you?
Do you remember how happy shemade you?
Like very few people get to bethat happy.
I'll never get to be that happy, and that sort of like gets
through to him.
So he wants to try and find herbut he can't.
Meanwhile we see Dr Kornbluthwho is being completely
(22:33):
belittled by the otherscientists and we see he's in
the room where she's in the tankand the lead scientist is
saying like tomorrow we'll takea look at her pulmonary and
reproductive systems.
Like he makes it clear he'sgoing to kill her and dissect
her.
And Kornbluth is like uh, maybewe shouldn't do that Like.
(22:55):
And she's meanwhile like hertail is kind of like flaking,
like she's clearly unwell andmiserable.
And we see Kornbluth regretwhat has happened.
So Kornbluth teams up with Alanand Teddy to rescue her.
(23:16):
There's some silly shenaniganswhere they pretend to be Swedish
scientists that are ridiculousand they managed to get her out.
And they're like running awayand they think they got away out
.
And they're like running awayand they think they got away
with it, but they definitelydidn't.
And then the entire force ofthe US military is sort of
chasing them.
They're on a pier in New YorkHarbor and sort of embracing,
(23:42):
and he's like you got to go,they're never going to stop
chasing you.
You got to go.
And she says, well, you couldcome with me.
And he's like I can't.
And she said, no, don't youremember when you were a kid and
you were safe with me?
I can do that for you.
And he's initially isn't goingto.
She dives in and is sort offlying and, excuse me, swimming.
There's like a helicoptercircling and I don't remember,
(24:04):
now that I'm telling you thestory, exactly what it is that
convinces him to follow her.
But I think there's a momentwhere he is convinced, but he
does.
He follows her and they kissunderwater and now I guess he
can breathe and Army Navy scubadivers are like jumping in after
(24:24):
them, after them to like tryand grab her and she turns out
to be like a total badass andlike kicks all their asses and
then they swim off together inNew York Harbor that like has
coral and like beautiful fishand no trash.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So See, that is the most unrealistic aspect of this
entire film.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, so they basically swim off into the
sunset together and that's theend.
So I'll start with the easythis does not pass the Bechdel
test.
I'm sure you could guess that.
I mean Madison does speak tothe Bloomingdale's assistant or
the Bloomingdale salesperson,not about boys or men, but she
(25:08):
doesn't have a name.
The Bloomingdale's person doesnot have a name.
There is at least one othernamed character, mrs Stimler,
who's like the receptionist,alan's receptionist, but she
never speaks to another woman.
So it doesn't pass Bechdel.
So that's easy.
And a reminder, listeners, theBechdel test from Alison Bechdel
.
Other at least two named femalecharacters.
Do they speak to one another?
And do they speak to oneanother about something other
(25:29):
than a boy or a man?
The answer is from the veryfirst question is no.
Well, no, I guess it's from thesecond.
Second question is no, butlet's stay with gender for a
moment.
When I went into watching thismovie I didn't have a lot of the
things that you actually had inyour head.
I just remembered sort of a funrom-com and I remember kind of
(25:51):
wanting to be Madison andwatching it.
Now it is so unclear why shewants this dude Like it is
remarkable that he shows upagain after 20 years.
So maybe, maybe in a generousread I could give that as like
she's like.
Oh well, it must be becausethis guy I saw when we were kids
(26:12):
just showed up again and Isaved him again.
So maybe yes.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
In that very beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yes, yes, I think there is meant to be a soulmate
kind of a connection betweenthem.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yes, and which would explain why he struggles to
commit to Veronica, because hissoulmate is a mermaid.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yes, that is a generous read.
I do appreciate that and alsonot really really helpful for
like little baby Tracy and Emilylike trying to figure out what
romance should look like yeah,or could look like Like it
doesn't do what the Disneyversion of Little Mermaid does,
where she gives up her voice inorder to be with a man.
(27:01):
It does not require her to giveup her entire world in order to
be with him.
In fact, the other way aroundhe gives up his and even from
the beginning she has said fromthe beginning I have a week she
never intended to leave her lifefor him.
It was always sort of a visitand not like a permanent stay.
(27:21):
It's also pretty sex positiveLike she definitely, I mean stay
.
It's also pretty sex positiveLike she definitely, I mean she
definitely leads.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So those things all feel like pretty good, as you
were describing it.
I was thinking like how muchmore interesting would this
movie be if it were fromMadison's point of view?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Exactly Like.
That's the thing that Disneygave us.
That this didn't right, BecauseDisney gave it to us from
Ariel's point of view.
Like Eric, we only see Ericwhen Ariel's with him mostly.
But in this case, actually we,we follow Alan.
We have no idea what she's beendoing for the past 20 years, we
have no idea what her life islike underwater, and I think it
(28:00):
would be a lot more interesting.
I mean like again, because itis from alan's point of view.
Watching it now, I'm like, well, this is a pretty clearly a
male fantasy, right?
In fact, one of thecommentators that I read was
like I was a little surprised toread that this was written when
(28:20):
the screenwriter was 33,because it reads like something
when he was about half that ageand I was like, yeah, right on
it's kind of right, you knowit's just.
It's just.
This gorgeous woman wants onlyyou and travels 300 miles
(28:41):
underwater to find you and justwants to find you and have sex
with you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It's just nice work if you can get it, yeah, yeah.
And like why did I identifywith Madison?
Like what?
Because she's a kick ass tail.
Oh my God, I wanted a mermaidtail.
Oh my God, I wanted a mermaidtail.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So, that said, like this is clearly a masturbatory
fantasy, I think, ron Howard, insome ways the camera mostly
avoids Daryl Hannah'sbare-breasted.
Many scenes the camera mostlyavoids her breasts.
There is one scene, like whenshe's walking on the Statue of
Liberty Island, where we zoom innot zoom in but like,
(29:26):
definitely clearly look at herass.
But for the most part she's notlike, she's not objectified in
some of the ways that one mightexpect from this masturbatory
fantasy story.
And then she learns about howto be a human woman by watching
tv and by shopping and there's adegree to which we're like with
(29:50):
this born sexy yesterday andthe man I pick a dream that we
are meant to like really thisform of femininity that she
takes on, we're meant to toreally like.
Like we're meant to identifyand like just fall in love.
We are also meant to fall inlove with her right, not just
Alan.
And so I'm holding all of thistension.
(30:13):
That just feels like I'mholding my love for Daryl
Hannah's character from when Iwas Tiny, tiny right.
What was I eight in 84?
While also all of the sludgethat she brought with her from
the bottom of the sea.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know what's interesting?
Because, like the fact that sheis able to pick up English in
like 12 hours, right, that isphenomenal.
Right Intelligence, and justimagine if the TV had been set
to C-SPAN Right Intelligence.
And just imagine if the TV hadbeen set to C-SPAN Right Instead
of Home Shopping Channel orwhatever it was Right Like.
(30:55):
So it's understandable that shewould take on the trappings of
what she's seeing, but it'soffered to us as if this is how
it is to be feminine, ratherthan this is one of the ways to
be feminine right, right,exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
yeah, so all of that at the same time.
Another, and is so I name thisas a as a male fantasy, right?
This gorgeous blonde whotravels 300 miles to have sex
with you.
At the same time, she saves himrepeatedly.
In many ways, he is a damsel indistress, both as a child and
(31:40):
then when she first saves himafter, when he loses his wallet,
and even sort of metaphorically, because we see him sort of
stuck in this kind of rigidityof the work and of kind of
bureaucracy, like even when hetalks about getting married.
It's all about the bureaucracy,about immigration and the blood
(32:01):
tests.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And her kind of wide-eyed born sexy yesterday.
Like the wisdom of that trope,because that trope also has the
wisdom with it also sort ofsaving him from the numbness of
the bureaucracy and the rigidityfrom Eugene Levy's colleagues.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But not particularly effectively.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, she wouldn't have gotten away if she weren't
also a badass.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Because she ends up like literally knocking out all
of these scuba diving.
I don't know government actors,I don't know if they're
supposed to be police or Navy orwhat.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Which is another reason why it would be so much
more interesting from her pointof view, and because when you
were talking about how she waslooking at like the walk sign
and going pretty, I was thinkinglike wouldn't it be interesting
to see Alan's reaction tothings that are mundane in the
sea?
Yeah, because he would go ohpretty about something and she
would be like, no, that's justour thing.
(33:10):
Yeah, well, I guess it is prettyCome to think of it.
I don't really think about itthat way because it's just part
of my normal life you know, andso we could have, like the born
sexy yesterday man fish out ofwater.
That would be fascinating, wouldbe really fascinating.
(33:30):
Splash 2, splash 2 I thinkthere is a sequel, is there?
Yeah, I think it was likestraight to video bullshit, yeah
.
So one thing that I wasthinking about when you're
describing the scene in thebathtub, and in particular,
because you're saying this iskind of in conversation with the
Little Mermaid.
So we talked during the LittleMermaid episode about how I
(33:53):
really shied away from theLittle Mermaid once I had the
realization of how anti-feministit was.
She gives up her voice for aman.
And then I was able to forgivethe film when I learned that
many, many trans kids of ourgeneration and younger saw it as
an allegory for themselves, andso I'm thinking about when
(34:15):
she's like no, no, no, it's okay, don't come in, don't come in.
That sounds like how it wouldfeel for a non-binary intersex
person who is not ready to comeout.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Or anyone who has body dysmorphia and is not in
their, is not wearing thetrappings of their actual gender
, not their biological sex.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where
Deborah is freaking out at Raybecause he's trying to get into
the bathroom or something likethat.
It's basically about the factthat she doesn't feel like she
has privacy and she's likebleaching her mustache or
something along those lines, solike even cisgendered women
feeling the need to keep up thetrappings of.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, I mean that is bleaching a woman.
Bleaching her a cis woman,bleaching her mustache is gender
affirming care.
Let's be real, let's be clearhere.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, or even you know, like I don't personally
know, but I know of women wholike get up early so that their
husbands or live-in boyfriendsdon't see them without makeup.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, the fabulous Mrs Maisel, we see that happen
where she like sets an alarmbeforehand so that she can put
makeup on before her husbandwakes up.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That to me, I think, is really interesting because,
since we're seeing this fromAlan's point of view, it's like
he's worried, so he breaks thedoor down, but he doesn't have
any reason to actually beworried.
He's actually suspicious, right, right.
And we're shown he has a rightto be suspicious, because she
was keeping something from him,because she was a fish, but what
she's?
keeping from him is who she is.
She's a fish.
(35:47):
She's a fish that I find reallyinteresting.
Thinking about it also as abecause you could see this as a
trans allegory as well where,like you know, I finally fall in
love and she's a man, yeah, andJohn Candy going like are you
crazy?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What's wrong with you ?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, you've never been happier than you were with
Madison.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
That's that's nice, yeah, whichyou know that that can improve
this movie a little bit, if youthink about it Totally, Totally.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I mean even Walter Kornbluth's kind of redemption.
Yes, Right, Absolutely.
Because what?
The reason that he changes histune is?
Because he sees he finally hasempathy for Madison.
He was kind of laughingstock ofthe scientific community, which
is why it became such a missionfor him to prove that she
existed, because people likewhat is wrong with you, Like go
(36:40):
find us a unicorn.
So he was being reallybelittled by the scientific
community.
But he, so he became obsessedto sort of clear his name
without thinking about theeffect that it would have on
Madison.
He was not thinking of Madisonas a person and when he started
thinking of her as a person heactually risked a lot like
(37:01):
everything, like not just hisscientific career, but he risks
himself at one point to try andslow down the army guys.
He's like standing in thestreet trying to like stop a
truck.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I mean, if we take the trans allegory a little bit
further, I'm thinking aboutthere are people who are like
just icky about trying to provethat you know someone is hiding
something.
So I'm thinking of Lady GagaEarly on in her career.
People would say Lady Gaga hasa penis and she refused to
(37:34):
respond to it.
And someone asked her about itbecause they, like you, could
just very easily deny it.
And she's like why would I denysomething that's not shameful,
like it doesn't matter, you know, like, and so I'm just, I'm
thinking like, if we look atthis as an allegory and like
Eugene Levy's characterrecognizing like this doesn't
(37:56):
matter, this is a person who ishurting, right, right, and
that's I don't know, that's kindof cool, yeah, yeah, in the
midst of this male masturbatoryfantasy.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, with these hints of feminist, take on it,
you know.
I mean even like one of the waysin which this version differs
from Disney's Little Mermaid,like part of the sort of hiding
thing in Disney's Little Mermaidis with Sebastian and like
she's kind of horrified by theeating crabs and lobster and
stuff bastion, and like she'skind of horrified by the eating
(38:29):
crabs and lobster and stuff insplash.
They go out to dinner and theyorder lobster and she like just
picks up the lobster and startschewing on the bites through the
shell and it's like you know,like she's like nom nom nom,
without opening it, you know,and she looks up and like the
entire restaurant is watchingand and she's like, oh, this is
how we eat lobster where I'mfrom, so which is like really
funny and also like well, Ithink both of the films kind of
(38:53):
with the Born Sexy Yesterday,both of these mermaid films that
I'm talking about with the BornSexy Yesterday, give us some
things that are like notfeminine or sort of not coded,
like not coated, like delicate,right like ariel brushes her
hair with a fork and we know why, but like and like madison,
(39:13):
like just goes to town, goesdown on this, on this lobster,
which is like, not feminine,it's not a feminine way to eat,
in the way that we are taught tothink about femininity.
I feel like that's aninteresting tension.
You you know she still is hisdream girl, even though she eats
lobster like that.
And he doesn't know she's afish yet.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, when he's like oh, I don't care about that,
it's fine, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
So, like so much from our childhood, it does like
give with one hand and take withthe other.
I feel like it takes more thanit gives, but it's not like it
only takes, right?
I think there are some films wewatch where it's just like yeah
, this one's, we don't need tore-watch that this one I don't
feel that way.
Quite with this, though, Iwouldn't want my daughter to
watch it without talking to meat the same time like there's
(39:57):
just a lot about gender rolesand and sort of relationship
roles, like, aside from thissort of soulmate thing, it's
really not clear what she getsfrom alan, like what does he
give her emotionally?
Sex is what she, what he givesher.
But and like and well, that'sanother interesting question
like, now that they're, they'regonna live in her world where
(40:20):
she's got a tail, presumablythey're not having intercourse
in the traditional way that he'sused to.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Unless they go on to islands.
I guess, yeah, I guess, anyway,in Twilight, a mermaid and a
(40:48):
human.
If it's a paranormal creatureand human, the options are that
the human becomes the paranormalcreature, where you make the
girl the vampire, or theparanormal creature becomes
human, where the mermaid becomesa human woman.
And this is like there'ssomething subversive in the fact
that this turns out on its headTotally.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I do think that that, like both of the Anderson and
of the other versions that wethen get later, like even the
fairy tale, like the fairy talealways asks the woman or always
sort of gives us the woman,leaving her life behind to join
his.
And that's not what happens inthis film.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Or the vampire stories.
The love stories that I haveactually enjoyed are ones where
they part Right Because it can'thappen.
Or I've read one or two wherethe vampire is able to become
human again.
But even then I'm sitting theregoing like you've been around
for 300 years.
Becoming human again is notgoing to appeal.
(41:46):
There, going like you've beenaround for 300 years, like
becoming human again, is notgoing to appeal.
So, yeah, there's, there'ssomething very like subversive
about that, about that makingthat choice, but it'd be so much
more interesting, yeah, andthen we'd also know what.
What's in it.
For madison yeah, because youknow like, okay, maybe he's,
he's her manic pixie dream boy,for whatever reason you know,
but we don't.
(42:06):
We don't know why we don't seeit?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
No, we really don't.
We don't.
I mean, like the only thingthat we really see is that, like
he likes mermaids.
Because, because the fountainyeah.
Yeah, so anyway, before we hitrecord, you told me about like
an interpretation of this that Ihadn't seen.
That is really fascinating.
Can you share that with me?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
of Alan as he's drowning, as he's dying, because
it points out that he nearlydrowned the first time he met
her, and so there's somethingwrong that he's going back to
this place where he had thishorrific near drowning and he's
never learned to swim.
Right, right, he does not knowhow to swim, does not know how
to swim, and we see that hislife is kind of falling apart up
until that point.
And so if we think about itthat way, it makes more sense
(43:10):
that the story is actually justthis like the random firing
neurons of someone as they die.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, like in Cape Cod when he loses his wallet?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, yes.
So he like none of it actuallyhappens.
After that he actually drownsand he comes up with this idea
of being saved by this beautifulwoman and then like that's why
it feels like a male fantasy,because it is.
It's his fantasy of how hecould survive this horrible
accident.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
That actually makes a lot more sense than that.
This is magical realism.
A lot more sense than that.
This is magical realism.
I mean honestly, like even justthe fact that she finds him
again.
It's just it.
It just doesn't.
Yeah, there's like I mean youjust have to hit the I believe
button.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
So okay, so she can read his driver's license, but
she doesn't speak english, right, you know?
And she knows enough abouthumans to know to find a map
Right.
Shipwreck.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Right, which presumably she's seen before,
but like, still, like, yeah,it's that she's able to figure
out and then swims from thewaters of Cape Cod to New York
Harbor.
Yeah, like, yeah, and doesn'tdie of like I don't know, sludge
, poisoning or whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
New.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
York Harbor is, you know, gorgeous yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I think it was filmed like I was looking at the end.
It was filmed on location inNew York, la, and Nassau, the
Bahamas, I think the water likeI think the New York Harbor
underwater scenes are actuallyin Nassau, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
So and that's like I think that that interpretation
it makes sense and likecontextualizes all the stuff
that doesn't really fit YepTotally and then also helps
clarify why all these things arejust like yeah, this beautiful
naked woman has shown up.
You know her?
(44:59):
Yes, I do.
Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.
So I really enjoy those kindsof interpretations.
I find it really interesting tokind of think through what is
actually happening here, if youdon't want to suspend your
disbelief.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that a lot, yeah.
So those are the things Iwanted to share with you.
So let me reflect back andyou'll fill in where I missed.
Those are the things I wantedto share with you, so let me
(45:38):
reflect back and you'll fill inwhere I missed.
So the number one thing that Ilike.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
When I finished watching, I watched with my
spouse.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
My spouse said I can't wait to hear your thoughts
on this, because they wereenjoying the movie and I was
like, oh, like, from beginningto end.
And that really is what stoodout the most to me in rewatching
this film is just like, as thisreviewer that I read said like
the guy who wrote it was 33, buthe was tapped into his like
16-year-old self.
Right that there's thisgorgeous Like Luc Besson.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, totally Luc Besson in the fifth element.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yep, yep, and in many ways some of the same things
from Luc Besson and the FifthElement, with this gorgeous
supernatural creature who justwants to be with you and is a
total badass and saves you andyou are mediocre in most ways.
So that really is what stoodout the most.
(46:33):
In terms of some of theliterary analysis.
It does not pass Bechdel, Ithink.
Mostly it is an anti-feministfilm, though there are a few
feminist moments, especiallywhen we put it in conversation
with other interpretations ofthe Hans Christian Andersen
mermaid tale, in particular thefact that at the end, instead of
well, in Andersen, like shedoes not end up with the man,
(46:54):
she gains a soul and then dies.
But in the Disney version thatcomes about 10 years after
Splash, she gets the guy, butshe has to give up her entire
life and identity in order to bewith him and can never go home
again.
In this version the oppositehappens and the human man gives
up his identity and his wholeworld in order to be with her.
(47:16):
So some of the tropes we seeare born sexy yesterday again a
repeat of Luc Besson's FifthElement.
And along with the born sexyyesterday, luc Besson's Fifth
Element and along with the BornSexy Yesterday.
These often go together is amanic pixie dream girl, and we
see that in the ways that both awisdom and an intelligence like
(47:42):
this woman learned anotherlanguage by watching TV in a
matter of hours, and not justanother language.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
This isn't like it's a language that is complete.
It's a different specieslanguage.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, because she speaks like a dolphin.
We learn.
Yeah, she speaks whale, and nowshe speaks English with zero
accent.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, as impressive as it would be for, like an
English speaker, to learnJapanese.
At least they share the samephoneme yeah phonemes.
They form sounds in the sameway, Right right.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
So this like brilliant creature who also like
, looks at the walk sign on thestreet and is like pretty, you
know.
So that's how we sort of seethat manifest, both the born
sexy yesterday and the manicpixie dream, you know, she's
taking her shoes off to walkbarefoot and, like she's just
making him get back in touchwith his childlike self.
She saves him literally fromdrowning, both when he's a child
(48:39):
and then now as an adult, andshe saves him from the numbing
and the sort of loveless, rigid,bureaucratic life that he's in,
where he's sort of he's justcleaning up messes, that's all
he does.
He cleans up messes for aliving with this fruit
wholesaler.
In terms of gender, we see shelearns English by watching TV,
(49:01):
and it's just like broadcast TVwith lots of commercials, and so
she learns to be a woman bybeing a consumer, and there's no
critique of that.
The movie does not critique thatin any way, and so it's not
even that.
I think that it's not the wayit might happen if someone were
dropped into our world fromoutside all of a sudden.
(49:22):
It's that.
Can we problematize it a littlebit?
And we don't at all.
It's just like.
I mean, we don't evenproblematize the.
My daughter's lucky, she'sanorexic like it's just played
for laughs, yeah.
likewise with teddy's droppingcoins on the ground to look up
women's skirts, like we aremeant to find that like, oh,
(49:43):
teddy, boys, will boys, yeah.
Is the way I think we're meantto react to that, Not in a like
ew, you need to be taken off thestreets.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Like so, which is how baby Emily reacted to that.
I remember there was 10 yearsbetween when I saw it, when I
was like I don't know five, six,and then saw it again as in
mid-teens, and that was whatstuck with me for those 10 years
.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, yeah, it's gross, it's gross.
And he does it as a 10-year-oldand then he does it again as a
30-year-old.
We do hear Alan say you know,it was funny when you were 10.
And Teddy says I find somethingthat works for me and I stick
with it Again.
Boys will be boys.
Ugh, gross, we again, boys willbe boys, gross.
(50:32):
We also you brought in, sort ofbecause of the little mermaid.
You you kind of ask thequestion like what if this were
a trans allegory?
And I think there is somethingthat's makes this much more
palatable if I think of it thatway.
And um, you also brought inthis fan theory about the whole
film.
After he gets hit in the headwhile he's in the water is
actually his fantasy as he dies,which again like hmm, now
(50:56):
that's an interesting film, nowit's an interesting film.
So those are some of the things.
Let me see.
Was there anything else that Isaid?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
we talked a little bit about how much more
interesting this would be ifwe're from madison's point of
view and if we got to see alanreacting to his new world right
right, yeah, and I mean I guessjust to reiterate I've already
said it, but like it's reallyunclear what's in this
relationship for Madison.
(51:26):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Mm, hmm.
So yeah, I'm probably not goingto need to watch this one again
.
So I mean, it's not, it's notone that I'm like, don't watch
it.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
But it's not Revenge of the Nerds.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, it's not Revenge of the Nerds, but
neither is it.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Want like Stand by Me , stand by Me.
Oh, I want to see that yeah.
Anyway, Next week Em Next week,you're bringing me some deep
thoughts.
Yeah, I'm bringing you my deepthoughts about the Dark.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Crystal oh, another Henson property.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
We love the Muppets.
All right, see you then.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
All right, see you then.
is this a feminist movie and like spoiler alert?
No, but also there are momentsthat I think one could argue are
, and so it's one of those, likegive with one hand and take
with the other.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
just pop culture, what othersmight deem stupid shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
(00:22):
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts
About Stupid Shit, because popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't?
You know what's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
(00:43):
the 1980s Ron Howard film Splashwith my sister, emily
Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
All right, em, I know youremember this film because we've
talked about it a little bit,but tell me what's in your head.
What mental furniture do youhave about Splash?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So I know that Splash is the reason why there are
like three Madisons in my kid'sclass.
That name was not a name for agirl prior to, you know, 1984,
85, misses her mermaid self andso she puts Morton's salt in a
bath so she can have her tail,and that image really stuck with
me.
I remember her buying a hugefountain and putting it in his
(01:36):
apartment and then, other thanthat, the thing that stuck with
me from when I saw it for thevery first time was John Candy's
character would drop coins onthe ground so that he could look
up women's skirts, and I was sohorrified by that.
And the movie does not commenton it.
So I kind of remember bits andpieces of the plot.
(02:02):
Just, you know, daryl Hannah'sa mermaid.
She rescued Tom Hanks'character when he was a child, I
think, when he almost drowned,and she comes back again now
that he's an adult and yeah,that's that.
Oh, and Eugene Levy is like acryptid researcher or something
(02:23):
like that, or for the governmenthe's trying to prove that she's
a mermaid.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So you remember a lot about this movie, like you
remember a lot more about thismovie than I did when I went in
to watch it.
Really, okay, yeah, I'mimpressed.
So yeah, all of those thingsare right on.
So what I want to talk aboutwith you today are sort of the
relationship between DarylHannah's Madison and Tom Hanks's
(02:52):
Alan and sort of why, likewhat's in it for her, like
that's very unclear, and sort oflike what that taught us about
romance taught us about romance.
I also want to talk about someof the tropes that are employed.
So she is very much a born sexyyesterday, also a bit of a
manic pixie dream girl.
I want to think about this inconversation a little bit with
(03:14):
the Little Mermaid, which cameabout a decade later, because
they're both loosely based onthe Hans Christian Andersen and
they made different choices, andso I want to talk about some of
those.
And they made different choices, and so I want to talk about
some of those.
I also want to talk about sortof consumerism in this film and
consumerism as a gendered kindof phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Women be shopping, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And also I want to sort of askthe question like is this a
feminist movie?
And like, spoiler alert no, butalso there are moments that I
think one could argue are, andso it's one of those like give
with one hand and take with theother.
So these are the buckets thatI'm going to get into and,
actually, before we hit record,you mentioned a potential
(03:58):
interpretation that isfascinating to me that I want
you to share.
So, before we get into all ofthat, let me see if I can do a
plot synopsis.
I'm not even going to say it,I'm just going to do my best.
I'm not even going to say it'sgoing to be brief because we all
know it ain't.
We'll do what we can, so I'lldo my best.
I will do my best.
(04:18):
So the movie starts actually inblack and white, like 20 years
ago.
We're on cape cod, we're onthis ferry and we meet this
family.
So there's teddy, who is anolder brother.
He's a little bit chubby and,like the movie makes sure we see
that he is chubby and he's.
We see him dropping coins onthe ground so he can look up
(04:39):
women's skirts and then as achild, as.
Ugh, that's how we meet him.
And then his mom is like stopthat, stop that.
And then says to the dad liketalk to him.
And so the dad like smacks himon the top of the head and she
says, listen to your father.
Which actually is kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Listen to the smack on the top of your head Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So we know where they're in Cape Cod, they're in
the waters of Cape Cod and theyounger brother, alan, is sort
of like dreamy and lookingwistfully into the distance and
he doesn't want to go.
Look at Cape Cod from the boat.
The way that with the rest ofthe family and the mom is kind
of like well, if you change yourmind you know where we'll be.
And then inexplicably Alan islooking out at the water and
(05:28):
jumps and he sort of starts tosink and he's meant to be about
eight-ish, so, like Teddy's,like 10-ish.
So he starts to sink and then ablonde girl his age kind of
smiles at him and they're likeholding hands and smiling at one
another under the water.
Meanwhile the adults like manoverboard and they like pull him
(05:51):
out and he's still gazingwistfully at the water.
The boat kind of moves on andthis girl pokes her head up out
of the water and like istearfully looking at the boat
going away and then she divesand we see the fin.
So it was a mer girl.
Fast forward to present day.
(06:12):
We meet alan.
He runs a fruit wholesaler, sowe see him like on the docks
with fruit and like arguing withdifferent workers, like the
delivery guy and a customer whoowns a grocery store.
Teddy pulls up played by JohnCandy in the sports car and he
like knocks over a sack of fruitand we learn that he was
(06:34):
playing poker and like made adeal for this crappy cherries
that are rotting and we sort ofsee that the dynamic of the like
irresponsible older brother andthe was going to say more
responsible and he is, butthat's.
We didn't see that as a child,we just saw that he was kind of
dreamy.
Through the course of this welearned that he's going to a
(06:56):
wedding over the weekend fromone of his he Allen.
He Allen.
Thanks Tom Hanks is.
Allen is going to a weddingover the weekend.
From one of his employees,no-transcript asking him where
(07:27):
she is, where veronica is, andhe gets increasingly short with
them until one guy doesn't evenask and he's just like she's not
coming.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
All right, she left me, all right and I imagine that
, like with tom hanks, becausehe's so charming, yeah, and kind
of adorable.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
He is, although it's funny because this character is
not in that same way.
But you know.
So John Candy's Teddy is likeyou might want to apologize,
that was the bride's brother.
So anyway, they end up in a barafter and Alan gets
increasingly drunk.
Teddy like meets two women andis trying to like set up a thing
where they would.
The four of them would go out,and Alan just doesn't want to.
(08:07):
And so he goes out to and hecatches a cab and he says to the
cabbie I want to go to Cape Cod.
They're in New York City.
And the cabbie's like that's300 miles, you got the cash.
And he pulls out a wad of cash.
So the cabbie takes him to CapeCod.
He gets off at the beach.
We see him here.
He interacts with Eugene Levyfor the first time.
(08:29):
Eugene Levy's name is WalterKornbluth and he is, as you say,
some sort of researcher.
By the way, eugene Levy got waybetter looking as he got older.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It was those eyebrows Like they needed to be a little
bit gray, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't, and like he tamed his hair a bit, I don't
know Like.
I think he's like an attractiveman now, not like hot, but like
attractive, but he was not ayoung man Anyway.
Anyway, sorry, total aside.
So he is a researcher of somekind and we see him sort of
berating the locals whose boathe's hired.
Alan comes up to him on thebeach and is like I'm on the
(09:12):
wrong side of the island, I wantto be over there, can you guys
take me?
And Levy's super suspicious.
Who sent you?
Did Dr So-and-so send you?
You're a spy?
And Alan's like what?
He's still in his tuxedo andhis like morning coat from the
wedding.
Anyway, he ends up hiring a guyin this tiny motorboat and the
guy's name is like Fat Eddie orsomething, and the boat stops
(09:36):
working midway.
We've learned that Alan can'tactually swim.
Alan ends up getting knockedout.
Fat Eddie jumps into the waterbecause the engine's not working
.
He's going to go get the otherboat the smaller boat, by the
way, this is a tiny boat and soeventually Alan ends up in the
water.
He gets knocked out by the boatbecause he's managed to make
the engine work again, but thenfill out and it goes in a circle
(09:58):
, blah, blah, blah.
So he's sort of sinking down.
Enter Daryl Hannah.
As a mermaid, she rescues him.
We watch his wallet fall out ofhis pants and drop down.
She takes him to the beach andit's the same sort of like, just
like the Little Mermaid.
Like he wakes up in the sandand sees her from a distance.
(10:21):
She kind of like peeks up oversome rocks at him.
She's naked with legs and he'slike, hey, who are you?
Did you save me?
What's going on?
And like we don't know what hermotivation is.
But she just sort of scared alittle bit.
But she sort of runs up to him,gives him a kiss, not a peck,
and runs into the surf and he'slike wait, wait, where are you?
(10:44):
You know whatever Weird.
So we watch her retrieve hiswallet and then go to a
shipwreck where she pulls a mapoff the wall like a rolled map
of New York, because she'slooked at his ID that has a New
York address and she smiles atus.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So she can read English, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So he goes back to his life and like whatever.
We see him in the fruitbusiness and there's a couple
unnecessary sort of comic thingsand whatever.
And then we see we're at thestatue of liberty and madison
walks up out of the surfcompletely naked onto liberty
(11:33):
you know, the statue of libertyisland and she gets arrested for
being naked in a public park orwhatever.
Cut back back to Alan.
He gets a call from the copsbecause she still has his wallet
on her and they're like a nakedwoman is here.
Do you know this person?
He's like yes.
I do so.
(11:53):
He rushes to find her.
They see one another.
She kisses him again, again,not a peck, this is not a chaste
kiss that she gives him.
He takes her home and like.
She's not speaking and like,but it's clear they've had it.
Like they make it clear theyhave sex.
He has to go to work.
Yeah, and we don't see it.
(12:15):
It's not on screen.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, there's no question, I mean I guess, like
you can have consent without?
Oh no, there's no question thatshe consents.
She's sort of pursuing him sheis very aggressive with the
non-chaste touch I'm justthinking, like if this were a
real woman, who didn't that like?
There's just anyway yeah anyway.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So he goes to work and leaves her with the tv, and
so she's watching TV and likelearns I guess learns English
from watching TV, I don't know,but we see her sort of say the
word Bloomingdale's becauseshe's watching a bunch of
advertisements.
So the next thing we see she'swearing one of his suits.
I don't know how she tied thetie, but she's wearing one of
(13:02):
his suits.
She goes out the and the.
There's a doorman at thisapartment building where Alan
lives and he says where to missand she says Bloomingdale's.
This is the first word we'veheard her say.
So she goes to Bloomingdale's.
She's immediately met by like.
She's like in awe, like lookingaround Because you know she was
born sexy yesterday In thisgiant department store and
(13:24):
immediately a saleswoman, likevery New York accent, comes up
to her and is like oh, thisisn't working, this outfit isn't
working.
Let's see if we can get yousomething that fits you.
You're such a pretty girl.
And then this saleswoman, who'smiddle-aged late 40s, early 50s
says something like like askinny girl like you.
(13:45):
I don't know if she used theword skinny, actually I think
she said pretty, you should bein different things.
I have a dress I couldn't getone leg in it.
My daughter though my daughter'slucky, she's anorexic and like
it was played for laughs, yeah,so we see she does a lot of
shopping.
Presumably she took alan'scredit card, I don't know, but
(14:09):
she's got like bags and bags andbags and she's wearing
different clothes.
She ends up in the tvdepartment of the department
store and is like watching thetvs and like aerobicizing with
richard simmons and alan comeshome from work.
She, she's not in the apartmentand so he, like the doorman,
says where she went.
He goes to Bloomingdale's.
He finds her in the TV placeand the two sales guys in the TV
(14:32):
section of Bloomingdale's arelike she's been here for six
hours and like she kind of hasto go home.
We're closing and anyway, alanand Madison which that's not her
name yet are talking and hesays she doesn't speak English
to these two sales guys.
And then she says hi, alan, howare you?
I hope you had a nice day.
So they start talking and he'slike could you speak English?
(14:55):
Why didn't you talk before?
And she's like well, I didn'tknow it, I learned it from
watching TV.
And he's like well, what's yourname?
And she said well, it's hard tosay in English, and he said
well, just say it in yourlanguage.
And she like squeaks this, likesuper high pitch, like dolphin
(15:15):
kind of whistles, that likebusts all the TVs in the room.
They're walking away from thestore and they're talking about
their days and she's totalcombination manic pixie dream
born sexy yesterday.
Like taking her shoes off whilethey're walking on the street,
like reacting to all thesethings like oh, look at this,
look at that.
And like it's almost gets hitby a car, and like one of the
drivers is like you should puther on a leash.
And then she climbs up on astreet pole and points at the
(15:35):
walk sign, is like pretty, youknow.
So that Alan's like well, Iguess I've never thought about
it, but I guess it's pretty.
I've never thought about it,but I guess it's pretty.
He says we need a name for youthat I can actually pronounce.
What do you think?
And she's like well, what arethey?
And he was like well, there'smillions of names.
And he starts sort of listingnames and he says where are we?
Oh, madison.
(15:56):
He's looking at the street signand she says oh, I like that
name.
He says that's not a name,which is really funny from your
recollection.
And she like gets crestfallen.
So he's like no, it's a lovelyname, you know what?
It's a great name.
So that's her name.
So the thing that you rememberwith the bathtub that scene is
very memorable because the sortof above view of Daryl Hannah in
(16:17):
the tail, like stretched out inthis tub, is visually very
striking.
The scene is also reallystriking.
She's in the tub.
He wakes up and is like wonderswhere she is and comes to find
her and he says what are youdoing?
She says taking a bath.
He said can I come in?
She says no and he's like why?
What's the matter?
And he actually is like I'mgoing to bust down this door.
(16:39):
And she's like don't come in,don't come in.
And he actually busts down thedoor while she's like trying to
dry off because apparently,apparently the magic is that
when she's wet she has a tail bythe time he gets doesn't have
to be salt water or something.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
No, no, okay she does put.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You were right that she does put salt into the tub,
but it does not need to be saltwater, gotcha okay.
So that moment where there's awoman in the bathroom saying
don't come in and he like bustsdown the door, is not that the
charming tom hanks that I knowand love, like it's very, it's,
it's kind of disturbing andshe's upset and then finally,
(17:19):
when he does get in, she haslegs again and so she's sort of
lying on the floor like lookingup at him and he was like what
is going on?
And she was like I was shy andhe says shy after what happened
in the car and the elevator andthe you know, like implying all
the sex they've had.
And she's like, yeah, I was shyand like that moment stood out
to me in a way in this viewingthat I don't think it did in the
(17:42):
past yeah, if he thought thatshe was ill or something.
I think that is what he thinks.
Something is wrong, yeah, but Idon't think he has any reason
to believe she's in trouble.
Yeah, yeah.
And like needing space andprivacy, yeah, especially since
they've known each other for amatter of days.
(18:03):
Yeah, ugh, anyway.
So shenanigans ensue.
We see it's not exactly amontage, but it's kind of a
montage of, like Eugene Levy hasfigured out who she is and is
trying to like get her wet inpublic.
That is not a euphemism.
Like he's literally trying toget water on her.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That is not a euphemism like he's literally
trying to get water on her.
Considering what you said aboutyou, know how he has uh, aged
like fine wine.
It was a little bit moredifficult back then so he's
trying to.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
He's trying to like get water on her and he keeps
mistaking another woman for her.
And so we see him.
He gets like beat up repeatedly.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Oh, that's right, Doesn't he end up with like a
neck brace, a neck brace andlike one arm in a hard cast.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yes, meanwhile, you know, we see them, alan and
Madison, like doing stufftogether, so like they go for a
walk and they see the fountainthat you remember, with the
mermaid that he says he's alwaysliked, and she's like why?
And he's like I don't know.
You know, when I was a kidsomething happened and I don't
know.
And she says, oh, I remember.
And he's like what?
(19:15):
And she's like, oh, what's theEnglish word?
I meant I understand, likethat's how she covers it.
And he tells her that that parkis being dismantled to make
room for apartments or something.
So she does end up buying thisgiant fountain and putting it in
his apartment.
She buys it with her necklace.
We see in the beginning she'swearing this like fancy mermaid
(19:36):
necklace.
She has said from the verybeginning she has one week and
then she has to go home, becauseif she doesn't go home after a
week she can't ever go home.
So their week is almost up.
He thinks it's an immigrationthing, they're ice skating and
he asks her to marry him so thatshe can stay.
(19:57):
And she's like no, and he doesnot handle it well and he does
not handle it well.
So they end up kind of runningoff in separate directions and
it's raining, so she ends upsort of hiding under a bridge
for a while to avoid the rain.
The next morning she comes andfinds him at the fruit seller
place where he works and says,yes, and he's super excited,
(20:21):
they're actually going to driveto Maryland because you don't
need it.
Or he suggests they drive toMaryland because they don't need
a blood test in Maryland, buthe has this event to go to.
It's a dinner where thepresident is speaking, so he's
taking her instead of Teddy.
So they go to this thing andEugene Levy's Dr Kornbluth is
there, and this time Kornbluthmanages to get water on her as
(20:44):
they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And they get.
I can remember she's like in anevening gown or something like
that, and then she has a tail.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, yeah.
And she's sort of looking up athim from the ground and he's
just sort of stricken and theyget pulled apart by like the
crowd and like the governmentsort of agent sort of thing.
Like come and like bundle herinto like an SUV and she's
screaming, she's like yellinghis name the whole time.
Next we see they're both in aresearch facility.
(21:12):
He's in water up to his necklike naked except for like
medical things and like hold itcovering his genitals with his
hands going I'm not a fish.
The scientists are like he'sbeen in there 12 hours and no
change.
I think maybe he's just a man.
And then they decide to tryinteraction.
So they bring her in in a slingand drop her into the same tank
(21:33):
he's in and he's like so thiswas your big secret.
And she's like, yeah, I wasgonna tell you, don't be mad.
And he's mad.
So she kind of like sinks downto the bottom of the tank and
like just looks forlorn.
They pull him out, they keepher.
He has this conversation withhis brother where he's like do
(21:57):
you believe it?
Like I can't fall in love.
I thought there was somethingwrong with me and I finally fall
in love and she's a fish andhis brother's.
What is wrong with you?
Which is a funny?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
line yeah, I fall in love.
And she's a fish.
Yeah, it's kind of a funny line.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So John Candy's Teddy's like what is wrong with
you?
Do you remember how happy shemade you?
Like very few people get to bethat happy.
I'll never get to be that happy, and that sort of like gets
through to him.
So he wants to try and find herbut he can't.
Meanwhile we see Dr Kornbluthwho is being completely
(22:33):
belittled by the otherscientists and we see he's in
the room where she's in the tankand the lead scientist is
saying like tomorrow we'll takea look at her pulmonary and
reproductive systems.
Like he makes it clear he'sgoing to kill her and dissect
her.
And Kornbluth is like uh, maybewe shouldn't do that Like.
(22:55):
And she's meanwhile like hertail is kind of like flaking,
like she's clearly unwell andmiserable.
And we see Kornbluth regretwhat has happened.
So Kornbluth teams up with Alanand Teddy to rescue her.
(23:16):
There's some silly shenaniganswhere they pretend to be Swedish
scientists that are ridiculousand they managed to get her out.
And they're like running awayand they think they got away out
.
And they're like running awayand they think they got away
with it, but they definitelydidn't.
And then the entire force ofthe US military is sort of
chasing them.
They're on a pier in New YorkHarbor and sort of embracing,
(23:42):
and he's like you got to go,they're never going to stop
chasing you.
You got to go.
And she says, well, you couldcome with me.
And he's like I can't.
And she said, no, don't youremember when you were a kid and
you were safe with me?
I can do that for you.
And he's initially isn't goingto.
She dives in and is sort offlying and, excuse me, swimming.
There's like a helicoptercircling and I don't remember,
(24:04):
now that I'm telling you thestory, exactly what it is that
convinces him to follow her.
But I think there's a momentwhere he is convinced, but he
does.
He follows her and they kissunderwater and now I guess he
can breathe and Army Navy scubadivers are like jumping in after
(24:24):
them, after them to like tryand grab her and she turns out
to be like a total badass andlike kicks all their asses and
then they swim off together inNew York Harbor that like has
coral and like beautiful fishand no trash.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So See, that is the most unrealistic aspect of this
entire film.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, so they basically swim off into the
sunset together and that's theend.
So I'll start with the easythis does not pass the Bechdel
test.
I'm sure you could guess that.
I mean Madison does speak tothe Bloomingdale's assistant or
the Bloomingdale salesperson,not about boys or men, but she
(25:08):
doesn't have a name.
The Bloomingdale's person doesnot have a name.
There is at least one othernamed character, mrs Stimler,
who's like the receptionist,alan's receptionist, but she
never speaks to another woman.
So it doesn't pass Bechdel.
So that's easy.
And a reminder, listeners, theBechdel test from Alison Bechdel
.
Other at least two named femalecharacters.
Do they speak to one another?
And do they speak to oneanother about something other
(25:29):
than a boy or a man?
The answer is from the veryfirst question is no.
Well, no, I guess it's from thesecond.
Second question is no, butlet's stay with gender for a
moment.
When I went into watching thismovie I didn't have a lot of the
things that you actually had inyour head.
I just remembered sort of a funrom-com and I remember kind of
(25:51):
wanting to be Madison andwatching it.
Now it is so unclear why shewants this dude Like it is
remarkable that he shows upagain after 20 years.
So maybe, maybe in a generousread I could give that as like
she's like.
Oh well, it must be becausethis guy I saw when we were kids
(26:12):
just showed up again and Isaved him again.
So maybe yes.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
In that very beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yes, yes, I think there is meant to be a soulmate
kind of a connection betweenthem.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yes, and which would explain why he struggles to
commit to Veronica, because hissoulmate is a mermaid.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yes, that is a generous read.
I do appreciate that and alsonot really really helpful for
like little baby Tracy and Emilylike trying to figure out what
romance should look like yeah,or could look like Like it
doesn't do what the Disneyversion of Little Mermaid does,
where she gives up her voice inorder to be with a man.
(27:01):
It does not require her to giveup her entire world in order to
be with him.
In fact, the other way aroundhe gives up his and even from
the beginning she has said fromthe beginning I have a week she
never intended to leave her lifefor him.
It was always sort of a visitand not like a permanent stay.
(27:21):
It's also pretty sex positiveLike she definitely, I mean stay
.
It's also pretty sex positiveLike she definitely, I mean she
definitely leads.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So those things all feel like pretty good, as you
were describing it.
I was thinking like how muchmore interesting would this
movie be if it were fromMadison's point of view?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Exactly Like.
That's the thing that Disneygave us.
That this didn't right, BecauseDisney gave it to us from
Ariel's point of view.
Like Eric, we only see Ericwhen Ariel's with him mostly.
But in this case, actually we,we follow Alan.
We have no idea what she's beendoing for the past 20 years, we
have no idea what her life islike underwater, and I think it
(28:00):
would be a lot more interesting.
I mean like again, because itis from alan's point of view.
Watching it now, I'm like, well, this is a pretty clearly a
male fantasy, right?
In fact, one of thecommentators that I read was
like I was a little surprised toread that this was written when
(28:20):
the screenwriter was 33,because it reads like something
when he was about half that ageand I was like, yeah, right on
it's kind of right, you knowit's just.
It's just.
This gorgeous woman wants onlyyou and travels 300 miles
(28:41):
underwater to find you and justwants to find you and have sex
with you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It's just nice work if you can get it, yeah, yeah.
And like why did I identifywith Madison?
Like what?
Because she's a kick ass tail.
Oh my God, I wanted a mermaidtail.
Oh my God, I wanted a mermaidtail.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So, that said, like this is clearly a masturbatory
fantasy, I think, ron Howard, insome ways the camera mostly
avoids Daryl Hannah'sbare-breasted.
Many scenes the camera mostlyavoids her breasts.
There is one scene, like whenshe's walking on the Statue of
Liberty Island, where we zoom innot zoom in but like,
(29:26):
definitely clearly look at herass.
But for the most part she's notlike, she's not objectified in
some of the ways that one mightexpect from this masturbatory
fantasy story.
And then she learns about howto be a human woman by watching
tv and by shopping and there's adegree to which we're like with
(29:50):
this born sexy yesterday andthe man I pick a dream that we
are meant to like really thisform of femininity that she
takes on, we're meant to toreally like.
Like we're meant to identifyand like just fall in love.
We are also meant to fall inlove with her right, not just
Alan.
And so I'm holding all of thistension.
(30:13):
That just feels like I'mholding my love for Daryl
Hannah's character from when Iwas Tiny, tiny right.
What was I eight in 84?
While also all of the sludgethat she brought with her from
the bottom of the sea.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know what's interesting?
Because, like the fact that sheis able to pick up English in
like 12 hours, right, that isphenomenal.
Right Intelligence, and justimagine if the TV had been set
to C-SPAN Right Intelligence.
And just imagine if the TV hadbeen set to C-SPAN Right Instead
of Home Shopping Channel orwhatever it was Right Like.
(30:55):
So it's understandable that shewould take on the trappings of
what she's seeing, but it'soffered to us as if this is how
it is to be feminine, ratherthan this is one of the ways to
be feminine right, right,exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
yeah, so all of that at the same time.
Another, and is so I name thisas a as a male fantasy, right?
This gorgeous blonde whotravels 300 miles to have sex
with you.
At the same time, she saves himrepeatedly.
In many ways, he is a damsel indistress, both as a child and
(31:40):
then when she first saves himafter, when he loses his wallet,
and even sort of metaphorically, because we see him sort of
stuck in this kind of rigidityof the work and of kind of
bureaucracy, like even when hetalks about getting married.
It's all about the bureaucracy,about immigration and the blood
(32:01):
tests.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And her kind of wide-eyed born sexy yesterday.
Like the wisdom of that trope,because that trope also has the
wisdom with it also sort ofsaving him from the numbness of
the bureaucracy and the rigidityfrom Eugene Levy's colleagues.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But not particularly effectively.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, she wouldn't have gotten away if she weren't
also a badass.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Because she ends up like literally knocking out all
of these scuba diving.
I don't know government actors,I don't know if they're
supposed to be police or Navy orwhat.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Which is another reason why it would be so much
more interesting from her pointof view, and because when you
were talking about how she waslooking at like the walk sign
and going pretty, I was thinkinglike wouldn't it be interesting
to see Alan's reaction tothings that are mundane in the
sea?
Yeah, because he would go ohpretty about something and she
would be like, no, that's justour thing.
(33:10):
Yeah, well, I guess it is prettyCome to think of it.
I don't really think about itthat way because it's just part
of my normal life you know, andso we could have, like the born
sexy yesterday man fish out ofwater.
That would be fascinating, wouldbe really fascinating.
(33:30):
Splash 2, splash 2 I thinkthere is a sequel, is there?
Yeah, I think it was likestraight to video bullshit, yeah
.
So one thing that I wasthinking about when you're
describing the scene in thebathtub, and in particular,
because you're saying this iskind of in conversation with the
Little Mermaid.
So we talked during the LittleMermaid episode about how I
(33:53):
really shied away from theLittle Mermaid once I had the
realization of how anti-feministit was.
She gives up her voice for aman.
And then I was able to forgivethe film when I learned that
many, many trans kids of ourgeneration and younger saw it as
an allegory for themselves, andso I'm thinking about when
(34:15):
she's like no, no, no, it's okay, don't come in, don't come in.
That sounds like how it wouldfeel for a non-binary intersex
person who is not ready to comeout.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Or anyone who has body dysmorphia and is not in
their, is not wearing thetrappings of their actual gender
, not their biological sex.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where
Deborah is freaking out at Raybecause he's trying to get into
the bathroom or something likethat.
It's basically about the factthat she doesn't feel like she
has privacy and she's likebleaching her mustache or
something along those lines, solike even cisgendered women
feeling the need to keep up thetrappings of.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, I mean that is bleaching a woman.
Bleaching her a cis woman,bleaching her mustache is gender
affirming care.
Let's be real, let's be clearhere.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, or even you know, like I don't personally
know, but I know of women wholike get up early so that their
husbands or live-in boyfriendsdon't see them without makeup.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, the fabulous Mrs Maisel, we see that happen
where she like sets an alarmbeforehand so that she can put
makeup on before her husbandwakes up.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That to me, I think, is really interesting because,
since we're seeing this fromAlan's point of view, it's like
he's worried, so he breaks thedoor down, but he doesn't have
any reason to actually beworried.
He's actually suspicious, right, right.
And we're shown he has a rightto be suspicious, because she
was keeping something from him,because she was a fish, but what
she's?
keeping from him is who she is.
She's a fish.
(35:47):
She's a fish that I find reallyinteresting.
Thinking about it also as abecause you could see this as a
trans allegory as well where,like you know, I finally fall in
love and she's a man, yeah, andJohn Candy going like are you
crazy?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What's wrong with you ?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, you've never been happier than you were with
Madison.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
That's that's nice, yeah, whichyou know that that can improve
this movie a little bit, if youthink about it Totally, Totally.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I mean even Walter Kornbluth's kind of redemption.
Yes, Right, Absolutely.
Because what?
The reason that he changes histune is?
Because he sees he finally hasempathy for Madison.
He was kind of laughingstock ofthe scientific community, which
is why it became such a missionfor him to prove that she
existed, because people likewhat is wrong with you, Like go
(36:40):
find us a unicorn.
So he was being reallybelittled by the scientific
community.
But he, so he became obsessedto sort of clear his name
without thinking about theeffect that it would have on
Madison.
He was not thinking of Madisonas a person and when he started
thinking of her as a person heactually risked a lot like
(37:01):
everything, like not just hisscientific career, but he risks
himself at one point to try andslow down the army guys.
He's like standing in thestreet trying to like stop a
truck.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I mean, if we take the trans allegory a little bit
further, I'm thinking aboutthere are people who are like
just icky about trying to provethat you know someone is hiding
something.
So I'm thinking of Lady GagaEarly on in her career.
People would say Lady Gaga hasa penis and she refused to
(37:34):
respond to it.
And someone asked her about itbecause they, like you, could
just very easily deny it.
And she's like why would I denysomething that's not shameful,
like it doesn't matter, you know, like, and so I'm just, I'm
thinking like, if we look atthis as an allegory and like
Eugene Levy's characterrecognizing like this doesn't
(37:56):
matter, this is a person who ishurting, right, right, and
that's I don't know, that's kindof cool, yeah, yeah, in the
midst of this male masturbatoryfantasy.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, with these hints of feminist, take on it,
you know.
I mean even like one of the waysin which this version differs
from Disney's Little Mermaid,like part of the sort of hiding
thing in Disney's Little Mermaidis with Sebastian and like
she's kind of horrified by theeating crabs and lobster and
stuff bastion, and like she'skind of horrified by the eating
(38:29):
crabs and lobster and stuff insplash.
They go out to dinner and theyorder lobster and she like just
picks up the lobster and startschewing on the bites through the
shell and it's like you know,like she's like nom nom nom,
without opening it, you know,and she looks up and like the
entire restaurant is watchingand and she's like, oh, this is
how we eat lobster where I'mfrom, so which is like really
funny and also like well, Ithink both of the films kind of
(38:53):
with the Born Sexy Yesterday,both of these mermaid films that
I'm talking about with the BornSexy Yesterday, give us some
things that are like notfeminine or sort of not coded,
like not coated, like delicate,right like ariel brushes her
hair with a fork and we know why, but like and like madison,
(39:13):
like just goes to town, goesdown on this, on this lobster,
which is like, not feminine,it's not a feminine way to eat,
in the way that we are taught tothink about femininity.
I feel like that's aninteresting tension.
You you know she still is hisdream girl, even though she eats
lobster like that.
And he doesn't know she's afish yet.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, when he's like oh, I don't care about that,
it's fine, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
So, like so much from our childhood, it does like
give with one hand and take withthe other.
I feel like it takes more thanit gives, but it's not like it
only takes, right?
I think there are some films wewatch where it's just like yeah
, this one's, we don't need tore-watch that this one I don't
feel that way.
Quite with this, though, Iwouldn't want my daughter to
watch it without talking to meat the same time like there's
(39:57):
just a lot about gender rolesand and sort of relationship
roles, like, aside from thissort of soulmate thing, it's
really not clear what she getsfrom alan, like what does he
give her emotionally?
Sex is what she, what he givesher.
But and like and well, that'sanother interesting question
like, now that they're, they'regonna live in her world where
(40:20):
she's got a tail, presumablythey're not having intercourse
in the traditional way that he'sused to.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Unless they go on to islands.
I guess, yeah, I guess, anyway,in Twilight, a mermaid and a
(40:48):
human.
If it's a paranormal creatureand human, the options are that
the human becomes the paranormalcreature, where you make the
girl the vampire, or theparanormal creature becomes
human, where the mermaid becomesa human woman.
And this is like there'ssomething subversive in the fact
that this turns out on its headTotally.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I do think that that, like both of the Anderson and
of the other versions that wethen get later, like even the
fairy tale, like the fairy talealways asks the woman or always
sort of gives us the woman,leaving her life behind to join
his.
And that's not what happens inthis film.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Or the vampire stories.
The love stories that I haveactually enjoyed are ones where
they part Right Because it can'thappen.
Or I've read one or two wherethe vampire is able to become
human again.
But even then I'm sitting theregoing like you've been around
for 300 years.
Becoming human again is notgoing to appeal.
(41:46):
There, going like you've beenaround for 300 years, like
becoming human again, is notgoing to appeal.
So, yeah, there's, there'ssomething very like subversive
about that, about that makingthat choice, but it'd be so much
more interesting, yeah, andthen we'd also know what.
What's in it.
For madison yeah, because youknow like, okay, maybe he's,
he's her manic pixie dream boy,for whatever reason you know,
but we don't.
(42:06):
We don't know why we don't seeit?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
No, we really don't.
We don't.
I mean, like the only thingthat we really see is that, like
he likes mermaids.
Because, because the fountainyeah.
Yeah, so anyway, before we hitrecord, you told me about like
an interpretation of this that Ihadn't seen.
That is really fascinating.
Can you share that with me?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
of Alan as he's drowning, as he's dying, because
it points out that he nearlydrowned the first time he met
her, and so there's somethingwrong that he's going back to
this place where he had thishorrific near drowning and he's
never learned to swim.
Right, right, he does not knowhow to swim, does not know how
to swim, and we see that hislife is kind of falling apart up
until that point.
And so if we think about itthat way, it makes more sense
(43:10):
that the story is actually justthis like the random firing
neurons of someone as they die.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, like in Cape Cod when he loses his wallet?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, yes.
So he like none of it actuallyhappens.
After that he actually drownsand he comes up with this idea
of being saved by this beautifulwoman and then like that's why
it feels like a male fantasy,because it is.
It's his fantasy of how hecould survive this horrible
accident.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
That actually makes a lot more sense than that.
This is magical realism.
A lot more sense than that.
This is magical realism.
I mean honestly, like even justthe fact that she finds him
again.
It's just it.
It just doesn't.
Yeah, there's like I mean youjust have to hit the I believe
button.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
So okay, so she can read his driver's license, but
she doesn't speak english, right, you know?
And she knows enough abouthumans to know to find a map
Right.
Shipwreck.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Right, which presumably she's seen before,
but like, still, like, yeah,it's that she's able to figure
out and then swims from thewaters of Cape Cod to New York
Harbor.
Yeah, like, yeah, and doesn'tdie of like I don't know, sludge
, poisoning or whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
New.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
York Harbor is, you know, gorgeous yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I think it was filmed like I was looking at the end.
It was filmed on location inNew York, la, and Nassau, the
Bahamas, I think the water likeI think the New York Harbor
underwater scenes are actuallyin Nassau, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
So and that's like I think that that interpretation
it makes sense and likecontextualizes all the stuff
that doesn't really fit YepTotally and then also helps
clarify why all these things arejust like yeah, this beautiful
naked woman has shown up.
You know her?
(44:59):
Yes, I do.
Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.
So I really enjoy those kindsof interpretations.
I find it really interesting tokind of think through what is
actually happening here, if youdon't want to suspend your
disbelief.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that a lot, yeah.
So those are the things Iwanted to share with you.
So let me reflect back andyou'll fill in where I missed.
Those are the things I wantedto share with you, so let me
(45:38):
reflect back and you'll fill inwhere I missed.
So the number one thing that Ilike.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
When I finished watching, I watched with my
spouse.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
My spouse said I can't wait to hear your thoughts
on this, because they wereenjoying the movie and I was
like, oh, like, from beginningto end.
And that really is what stoodout the most to me in rewatching
this film is just like, as thisreviewer that I read said like
the guy who wrote it was 33, buthe was tapped into his like
16-year-old self.
Right that there's thisgorgeous Like Luc Besson.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, totally Luc Besson in the fifth element.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yep, yep, and in many ways some of the same things
from Luc Besson and the FifthElement, with this gorgeous
supernatural creature who justwants to be with you and is a
total badass and saves you andyou are mediocre in most ways.
So that really is what stoodout the most.
(46:33):
In terms of some of theliterary analysis.
It does not pass Bechdel, Ithink.
Mostly it is an anti-feministfilm, though there are a few
feminist moments, especiallywhen we put it in conversation
with other interpretations ofthe Hans Christian Andersen
mermaid tale, in particular thefact that at the end, instead of
well, in Andersen, like shedoes not end up with the man,
(46:54):
she gains a soul and then dies.
But in the Disney version thatcomes about 10 years after
Splash, she gets the guy, butshe has to give up her entire
life and identity in order to bewith him and can never go home
again.
In this version the oppositehappens and the human man gives
up his identity and his wholeworld in order to be with her.
(47:16):
So some of the tropes we seeare born sexy yesterday again a
repeat of Luc Besson's FifthElement.
And along with the born sexyyesterday, luc Besson's Fifth
Element and along with the BornSexy Yesterday.
These often go together is amanic pixie dream girl, and we
see that in the ways that both awisdom and an intelligence like
(47:42):
this woman learned anotherlanguage by watching TV in a
matter of hours, and not justanother language.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
This isn't like it's a language that is complete.
It's a different specieslanguage.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, because she speaks like a dolphin.
We learn.
Yeah, she speaks whale, and nowshe speaks English with zero
accent.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, as impressive as it would be for, like an
English speaker, to learnJapanese.
At least they share the samephoneme yeah phonemes.
They form sounds in the sameway, Right right.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
So this like brilliant creature who also like
, looks at the walk sign on thestreet and is like pretty, you
know.
So that's how we sort of seethat manifest, both the born
sexy yesterday and the manicpixie dream, you know, she's
taking her shoes off to walkbarefoot and, like she's just
making him get back in touchwith his childlike self.
She saves him literally fromdrowning, both when he's a child
(48:39):
and then now as an adult, andshe saves him from the numbing
and the sort of loveless, rigid,bureaucratic life that he's in,
where he's sort of he's justcleaning up messes, that's all
he does.
He cleans up messes for aliving with this fruit
wholesaler.
In terms of gender, we see shelearns English by watching TV,
(49:01):
and it's just like broadcast TVwith lots of commercials, and so
she learns to be a woman bybeing a consumer, and there's no
critique of that.
The movie does not critique thatin any way, and so it's not
even that.
I think that it's not the wayit might happen if someone were
dropped into our world fromoutside all of a sudden.
(49:22):
It's that.
Can we problematize it a littlebit?
And we don't at all.
It's just like.
I mean, we don't evenproblematize the.
My daughter's lucky, she'sanorexic like it's just played
for laughs, yeah.
likewise with teddy's droppingcoins on the ground to look up
women's skirts, like we aremeant to find that like, oh,
(49:43):
teddy, boys, will boys, yeah.
Is the way I think we're meantto react to that, Not in a like
ew, you need to be taken off thestreets.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Like so, which is how baby Emily reacted to that.
I remember there was 10 yearsbetween when I saw it, when I
was like I don't know five, six,and then saw it again as in
mid-teens, and that was whatstuck with me for those 10 years
.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, yeah, it's gross, it's gross.
And he does it as a 10-year-oldand then he does it again as a
30-year-old.
We do hear Alan say you know,it was funny when you were 10.
And Teddy says I find somethingthat works for me and I stick
with it Again.
Boys will be boys.
Ugh, gross, we again, boys willbe boys, gross.
(50:32):
We also you brought in, sort ofbecause of the little mermaid.
You you kind of ask thequestion like what if this were
a trans allegory?
And I think there is somethingthat's makes this much more
palatable if I think of it thatway.
And um, you also brought inthis fan theory about the whole
film.
After he gets hit in the headwhile he's in the water is
actually his fantasy as he dies,which again like hmm, now
(50:56):
that's an interesting film, nowit's an interesting film.
So those are some of the things.
Let me see.
Was there anything else that Isaid?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
we talked a little bit about how much more
interesting this would be ifwe're from madison's point of
view and if we got to see alanreacting to his new world right
right, yeah, and I mean I guessjust to reiterate I've already
said it, but like it's reallyunclear what's in this
relationship for Madison.
(51:26):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Mm, hmm.
So yeah, I'm probably not goingto need to watch this one again
.
So I mean, it's not, it's notone that I'm like, don't watch
it.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
But it's not Revenge of the Nerds.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, it's not Revenge of the Nerds, but
neither is it.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Want like Stand by Me , stand by Me.
Oh, I want to see that yeah.
Anyway, Next week Em Next week,you're bringing me some deep
thoughts.
Yeah, I'm bringing you my deepthoughts about the Dark.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Crystal oh, another Henson property.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
We love the Muppets.
All right, see you then.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
All right, see you then.
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